Jonny>> What was *actually said* was:

"--Hopefully--, we made enough of an impact for Disney to take notice and give us the other half of Season 2." Emphasis added.

Why did Harvester of Eyes - not the comment board - say it? Because, "It would be shame for the Gargoyles DVD experience to end with a handshake and not a kiss."

;)

We still have no official word on plans to release the second half of season two on DVD.
Alex Garg - [<-- Frappr gargoyles fans group]
Critical reading skills - muchly important
posted @ Sun, Mar 26, 2006 11:44:16 pm EST from 216.145.68.238

Hey, did Jonny just say that Season Two, Volume Two is coming out? Yippee!!! Hey, everyone, Jonny said that the other half of Season Two is coming out!

Matt: Please tell me that was sarcasm (your comment, not mine).
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Funk power! Over and out!" -The only band that really matters.
posted @ Sun, Mar 26, 2006 11:36:53 pm EST from 69.174.3.196

Yeah, Siren, I totally agree. I guess what I was getting at was that I'm cool with characters with larger body types, I just don't want the show to endorse an unhealthy lifestyle. Healthy looking or not, if all Elisa EVER eats is hot dogs (with everything) I'd say that is sending a poor message to viewers, particularly younger viewers. Elisa eats or mentions eating hot dogs more than once in the series, but hopefully we can assume she eats lots of fruits and veggies too, lol, she likes jalapenas at least. She certainly LOOKS fit. Same with Broadway, if all we ever see him eat is pretzels I'd say that is not so good.
So, my point is, and I do have one, that I wouldn't want to see the Gargoyles Universe endorse an unhealthy lifestyle. Different body types are wonderful, as it reflects reality, but showing a character who is in bad shape and continues to eat poorly and exercise little is just as bad as Broadway and Hudson's attitudes towards reading in "Lighthouse".
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"The road to success is always under construction." Unknown
posted @ Sun, Mar 26, 2006 10:47:19 pm EST from 150.201.114.132

Matt>Considering Broadway is Hudson's biological son, it is quite possible that their appearance is gentic. And weight is genetic. Broadway isn't one to eat lightly, but in the same respect, he isn't a couch potato either. By protecting the city, he is getting exercise. You can not LOOK fit and still be healthy. Atheltes die everyday on the field and they're bodies are extreemly fit. You hear about teen athletes suddenly just fall dead in the middle of a game, with no evidence of drugs. And then you have larger people who live long heathly lives.

Body type is more genetic then it is lifestyle. I was a vegatarian for quite a while, I was eating extreemly healthy and exercising, and yet, the scale said 140lbs when I expected it to go to 110-120. That's when I learned about the genetics in body types. So not I continue to eat healthy, eating sweets in moderation, and exercising. I'm 160lbs, but happy and healthy. My doctor said I could lose 10 more, but he said I am healthy and if I am comfortable, then so be it. So no, I wouldn't want to see a morbidly obese gargoyle (also the idea of gliding would be difficult), but a larger female, Broadway's size or just a little smaller, its plausible.
Siren - [sirengarg@yahoo.com]
Click my name for my newest Gargoyles (Brooklyn/Maggie/Talon) music video!
posted @ Sun, Mar 26, 2006 9:23:35 pm EST from 65.33.112.205

JONNY> Um, how old are you?
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Plato once said that for everything that exists, there is a perfect form of it somewhere. A perfect human being, a perfect chair, a perfect stick, so that everything is a shadow of that one perfect form. Now, if we follow that train of thought, that means that somewhere in the universe there exists the perfect form of the perfect absolute and complete idiot and he left here an hour ago." - Matthew Gideon
posted @ Sun, Mar 26, 2006 9:21:25 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

Jonny-- I think you need to SLOW DOWN when you're reading the comments in here, buddy, because you seem to only get what you THINK people are saying, instead of what they ARE saying. Take some time, and save yourself some frustration. ^_-

Harvester of Eyes said "Hopefully, we made enough of an impact for Disney to take notice and give us the other half of Season 2." The keyword there is HOPEFULLY. Nobody here knows for sure if or when we're going to get volume two, but we all remain HOPEFUL.
Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail.com]
"Live for glory, strength and fury; play your part in the greater scheme of life and nature"
posted @ Sun, Mar 26, 2006 9:13:35 pm EST from 24.126.11.109

On Sunday, March 26, 2006 at 11:36:04 am EST at the Gargoyles Fiendsite Comment Room of this week, why did it say we made enough of an impact for Disney to take notice and give us the other half of Gargoyles Season Two, Volume Two on DVD with the remaining 26 episodes? Thank you.

Jonny
Jonny Modlin - [mmodlin@optonline.net]
Jonathan Modlin
posted @ Sun, Mar 26, 2006 9:07:09 pm EST from 24.44.53.156

Spinoff??? Anyone that Shows Gargoyles, gargoyles and more Gargoyles!

Dark ages would be nice, or a continuation of the originals series with more gargoyles comming to live in manhattan permanently.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
that is all I will say.
posted @ Sun, Mar 26, 2006 8:41:21 pm EST from 198.53.28.99

Siren, I totally get what you are saying and agree with you to an extent, but I think healthy living with good diets and exercise should always be shown as the ideal. I know there are a wide array of body types, but there is a big difference between having a large build and being overweight and/or obese. I don't consider Broadway or Hudson as overweight since they are clearly quite muscular and athletic. I dunno. Maybe I shouldn't have said anything since I'm not sure where I'm going with this...
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"The road to success is always under construction." Unknown
posted @ Sun, Mar 26, 2006 8:06:08 pm EST from 150.201.114.132

I think the world needs a larger female character in any animated series. Look at the media these days. Queen Latifa is beautiful. Anyone see her in Chicago?
Not a fan of soaps, but my mom is, I know there is a large actress on one of them that hooked up with some hunk.
So views are slowly changing, but far from there yet.
We still do have fat women being the best friend to the pretty skinny girl always there so she can cry to her. Or fat women still as the villians (Ursula in Little Mermaid for instance). And its still more accepted for older women to be fat, then have a teenager or 20-something woman be fat and fully accepted.

I was always glad to see Angela chose Broadway. Not the "sexy bad boy" Brooklyn came around as. Nor the "cute nerdy type" that Lexington is. But the one that his two rookery brothers often teased for his looks and weight. It was a breath of fresh air. And then the show gets cancelled :(

Though big woman by no means have fought all the stereotypes. Fat men are accepted more often in the mainstream with little to no problems. Look at the guy from Smashmouth. He's a big guy, and likely gets groupies all the time. But history and present day have shown that large women still aren't easily accepted as that. It is more believable for a fat man to get a beautiful well built or skinny woman then vice versa. I would personally love to see a large female gargoyle in the comic book eventually.
Siren - [sirengarg@yahoo.com]
Click my name for my newest Gargoyles (Brooklyn/Maggie/Talon) music video!
posted @ Sun, Mar 26, 2006 7:52:37 pm EST from 65.33.112.205

HoE-- "Don't forget that in the main Gargoyles series, there's supposedly going to be a story where Brooklyn will disappear with the Phoenix Gate and reappear a few minutes later with Katana, Nashville, Fu-Dog, and an egg."

Yes, that would be the bit that spawns the "Timedancer" spinoff. ;]
Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail.com]
"Live for glory, strength and fury; play your part in the greater scheme of life and nature"
posted @ Sun, Mar 26, 2006 7:51:20 pm EST from 24.126.11.109

The Winged Vampire : "we should erect a temple in his honor." Yes! And with virgin sacrifices to go with it of course. (Wait a second, if this place has anything in common with the TGS CR then the virgin club consists of me, and...me. Eep.
Spen
"There are three kinds of people; those who can't count, and those who can." - Wilek Nereus
posted @ Sun, Mar 26, 2006 7:42:18 pm EST from 216.248.119.208

HofEyes> You crack me up, lol. Red Lobster, hahaha! I can see that one maybe becoming quote of the week a year from now.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"The road to success is always under construction." Unknown
posted @ Sun, Mar 26, 2006 7:39:58 pm EST from 150.201.114.132

HoE> I haven't forgotten. That's why I mentioned it in my own little way in my last comment.
kingcobra_582 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
King Cobra3
posted @ Sun, Mar 26, 2006 7:20:14 pm EST from 209.239.132.28

Kingcobra: Don't forget that in the main Gargoyles series, there's supposedly going to be a story where Brooklyn will disappear with the Phoenix Gate and reappear a few minutes later with Katana, Nashville, Fu-Dog, and an egg.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Funk power! Over and out!" -The only band that really matters.
posted @ Sun, Mar 26, 2006 6:49:59 pm EST from 69.174.3.196

Ellen> For me, the spin-off I'd like to see would be Timedancer. It would be fun to see Brooklyn bopping all over different regions of time, plus I'd be very interested in seeing him working behind the scenes, ensuring the meeting of Xanatos and Demona and the relocation of Castle Wyvern. Not to mention that the poor guy deserves a mate.

It was "Temptation" that drew me in, BTW.

Slightly off-topic, did anyone else besides my "friend" and I get their Gathering 2006 card in the mail?
kingcobra_582 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
King Cobra3
posted @ Sun, Mar 26, 2006 6:42:59 pm EST from 209.239.132.28

Kanthara: I was thinking the same thing. A lot of the fan created female characters are very limited in the way they look. I've seen some that aren't much more than alternately colored humans with wings. Though that's probably more of a general problem of how females are represented in cartoons/comics/media.

HofEyes: I saw that Aladdin cheeseburger thing a few weeks ago...me and my friend were cracking up. We love doing silly lip-synching videos and pervert whatever cartoon or show we're parodying...so I really appreciate that, very funny. ^ - ^

I think the spin-off I'd most like to see is G2198 because all the other spin off series generally take place at the same time as the main gargoyles storyline. The G2198 spin off seems to have the most promise in introducing us to a whole different setting and characters that we know next to nothing about. In that same thread, I suppose Timedancer would be a close second.
Obed - [angelgear2000@yahoo.com]
o.O
posted @ Sun, Mar 26, 2006 5:49:41 pm EST from 71.57.178.10

Shara: You rock! I can't wait to see the printout of the comic. I'll be there, all right. :)

Jen, Patrick et al.: Now I know who to thank for that nifty postcard. It really is beautiful. Nicely done!

Top choice for spinoff: Whichever one Greg W wants most to write. And I'm not saying that to suck up. No story gets told better than the one a good writer really wants to write. The more enthusiastic the writer, the better the storytelling, and the more entertaining the read.

Most influential episode: "The Mirror." It was the first episode I really sat down and watched, and it had me sucked in from the get-go.
Ellen
posted @ Sun, Mar 26, 2006 5:47:34 pm EST from 64.12.116.8

Kanthara-- Good point, about there being a shortatge "grotesque" female gargs in fanart. I guess I'm as guilty as the rest, since I tend to more "normal" body types... though I tried to break that a bit with Morgu, who's got lots of horns and knee- and elbow-spurs (to match her sharp and "prickly" personality), and has a lean, willowy build. I've got a little blue female in my stash, who has Lex's wing type (and was named "Kite"... since her wings make her look like a child's kite when she's in the air, and after the bird of prey, being that, fundamentally, gargoyles are still predators. And she's small. ^_^) As for females with a Goliath-type build... do I really need to do more than just mention Kythera? ;]
Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail.com]
"Live for glory, strength and fury; play your part in the greater scheme of life and nature"
posted @ Sun, Mar 26, 2006 4:45:27 pm EST from 24.126.11.109

Dragomir> I appreciate the compliments! Thank you. I created Coraly because there were no "grotesque" female fan characters anywhere at the time, and doing a beaked female was my first response to that. I still think there are very few of them...

Which can bring up a discussion topic relating to art and character design: why is it so much easier to accept a wide range of body shapes for male gargoyles, while female gargoyles are more often than not done following humanoid proportions and looks? This isn't only true of the show, but of all fanart as well. Are there any weirdly proportionned females out there? Females with Lex's body shape? Or Broadway's? Or even with the body-builder type frame of Goliath?

As for spinoffs I'd like to see... I'm a sucker for time-travel stories (thus, why the Phoenix Gate Anthology was done for the 2004 Gathering*). So my vote is for Timedancer. I also really like the Bad Guys pitch.

I'd like to work on such spinoffs... be it in comic or in animated versions...

* There is still time to contribute for the third Anthology based on the Grimorum Arcanorum, both art and stories! Visit the Gathering website for info!
Kanthara - [karine@kantharasloft.net]
posted @ Sun, Mar 26, 2006 4:20:31 pm EST from 70.81.185.161

Yes, I know this is all late, but I was visiting my brother in Harrisonburg this weekend.

Greg W: <I have really gotta stop coming in here.> Believe me, I know how you feel. I don't know why I keep coming in myself. The food is ludicrously overpriced, and considering what you pay, the portions are too small. Plus they use entirely too much seasoning. But at least the biscuits are to die for. No... wait a sec, I'm confusing Station 8 with Red Lobster. Nevermind. ( ;


Anyway, I think after all's said and done, the CR could use a good laugh. So anyone who is so inclined can click on my name to get one.

As far as spinoffs are concerned, "Dark Ages" would be high on my list. It would be nice to get to know some of the other members of the Wyvern Clan, but more importantly, we've seen that cause and effect plays a big role in the Gargoyles universe. I'd like to get more of a background on how the personalities of the clan members who survived into the 20th Century developed back in their own time, which will hopefully provide better insight into them (in addition to expanding the universe with some new characters).


Siren: That's a good question. I would have to say the episode that really got to me when I first saw it was "Outfoxed." Reynard possessed a sense of resolve seldom seen in our species. I was particularly moved with how he describes the loss that comes with remaining true to oneself. He's kept at it, regardless of the heartache. I think the main reason it grabbed me is because I was raised on similar ideals concerning the preservation of personal integrity and accepting responsibility, and so I can empathize with what Reynard must have been feeling, because a lot of what I've seen in recent years makes me think that such standards are obsolete in today's world. But at the same time, I can't deny them, because they're a part of me. Like the man said, "it's a daily struggle, a costly struggle."

And I would have to say that in more recent years, "Vows" has really spoken to me on a personal level as well. The question of why people use certain Avatars in the CR that was asked a few weeks ago is one that I've been pondering perhaps more deeply than I should. I think there might be some subconscious reasons that I choose Demona, those reasons being that she and I are alike in certain ways (something that I think came to light when I was working on a fic the other day, but that's another story). I've seen more darkness than most people should, and while my own views of society and human nature might not be as radical as her's, I'm hardly a Romantic in my line of thinking. But anyway, that being said, I'm moved by several things in "Vows," but particularly Goliath's speech in the third act. It's natural to have fears, to have hates, to have biases. Darkness is just a natural part of the duality of existence. The trick is for you to have them, and not the other way around.

Matt: <I wonder if Hudson is still alive in 2006...?> Well, in the vision that Puck crafted, Hudson died in 2004. Certain things in the vision are wrong (I can't wait to see how Thailog surviving the fire will be revealed to the clan), but in other areas, Puck was frighteningly accurate.

Matt Fews: Hopefully, we made enough of an impact for Disney to take notice and give us the other half of Season 2. It would be shame for the Gargoyles DVD experience to end with a handshake and not a kiss.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"You can blow out a candle, but you can't blow out a fire. Once the flames begin to catch, the wind will blow it higher." -Peter Gabriel III
posted @ Sun, Mar 26, 2006 11:36:04 am EST from 69.174.3.196

I'm really glad Greg W. is out of town for a week. I'd have to break into the EEDK (Emergency Ego Deflation Kit) with all this drooling in here. (I usually only have to use that kit right after The Gathering) :) I don't know if I'd take it so far as WORSHIP... but I definitely respect him. He's a good person.

Postcards! It's good to see you guys are getting your post cards. I really like how they came out. Special thanks to my staff (Especially Gargoyles Comic Cover colorist, Steph Lostimolo) for putting them together and SLG for use of Greg Guler's artwork.

Spin-offs: 'Bad Guys' or 'Timedancer' have my vote for the comic venue. I want to see '2198' the most, but I want to see it animated. ;)
Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson - [<---- 10th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Gargoyles protect. It is our nature. Our purpose. To lose that is to be corrupt, empty... lifeless. " -- Goliath
posted @ Sun, Mar 26, 2006 11:01:32 am EST from 68.66.245.3

Wow, it has been a while, hasn't it

Anyhoo, as for all this spinoff business, I'm hoping that the new comics will feature them, in what order remains to be seen. I can't wait to pick up the first issue in June, I might even take up a subscription for it(if I can afford it), with what I've seen of it, it looks awesome.

Any ideas when the next part of Season 2 will be coming out
Matt Fews
Can't wait for Season 2 part 2
posted @ Sun, Mar 26, 2006 10:43:51 am EST from 67.71.156.13

Kris> I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that Brooklyn wouldn't go any further into the future than 2198 or maybe a few years beyond that. And I think I remember Greg also saying that the "Gargoyles" series would ideally continue to run right up to the point where "Gargoyles: 2198" starts. Theres a big gap between 2058 (Lancelot's hatchyear) and 2158 (Samson, Delilah and Zafiro's hatchyear) where we basically know of nothing that happens. I wonder how many more spinoff ideas could end up being generated!
And how can you NOT like Griff?! lol. I'm not a huge Arthur fan either, and for me, Griff would be the coolest character of "Pendragon".

Wingless> "Wouldn't it be rather a cool idea for Hudson in the present, since he's now learned to read & write to maybe be the one to chronicle(sorry, maybe a bad word to use here-cough,sputter) the stories of his past, that being something to hand down to future generations of the clan. I wonder if he would feel that to be un-gargoyle like."
That is a GREAT idea. And one of the best parts about it is that it could potentially solve the name problem. If present day Hudson is telling the story, he could easily refer to characters by their present day names. Also, "Dark Ages" could then be marketed off as a Hudson spinoff, perhaps launching right after Hudson dies in the original series. I wonder if Hudson is still alive in 2006...?
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"History is the version of past events that people have decided to agree upon." - Napolean Bonaparte
posted @ Sun, Mar 26, 2006 8:11:24 am EST from 150.201.114.132

I'm a big fan of chronological order, so I'd hope to start with Dark Ages first (in the theoretical reality where we're guaranteed to eventually see all the spin-offs play out in addition to the main Gargoyles series). Of course, I have no idea how far back and forward in time the jumps in Timedancer would go (Brooklyn finds his Japanese mate in which century?), so technically maybe it's ideal as both the first and last spin-off ('cause if Brook visits beyond 2198, Timedancer may show us the latest possible date Greg Weisman plans to reveal in his universe).

Then again, Brooklyn is a main character of the original series, a "contemporary" character I guess, so ideally Timedancer would run alongside Gargoyles.

I'd also prefer to start with Dark Ages as a spin-off 'cause, like many others here, I'm a sucker for the medieval flashbacks in this series. I'm not even a diehard fantasy fan (used to be, but sci-fi's taken over big-time for me lately, as far as genre entertainment goes), but Gargoyles did them very well and the characters felt at home in those eras.

Next to Dark Ages and maybe Timedancer, I think I'd most wanna see Bad Guys.

Would have to see the episodes involving the New Olympians again in order to decide whether I care enough to see 'em in more stories, I have such a vague memory of those scenes. C'monnn Season 2 Volume 2. At the very least, it would probably have some of the most interesting character design. And furries would eat it up, so it might have a better chance of selling as a comic than some of the other spin-off ideas, if marketed properly.

Very little interest in Pendragon, despite some folks here thinking up some potentially interesting stuff they could do with it (Illuminati revelations). I don't remember being all that big a fan of Griff either, though again I'd need to see "MIA" again to be sure. Don't really get what the big deal is over Arthur. I loved Disney's "Sword in the Stone", still do, and I was nuts about a big bound collection of Arthurian legends when I was in grade school, but Arthur himself just doesn't seem all that intriguing a character himself (no, not even when played by Sean Connery in First Knight).

2198 HAS to go last. Unless Timedancer features some sort of big emotional send-off appropriate to tying up the entire franchise, it really sounds like 2198 will have to close it all off (of course, that doesn't always mean tying up every single loose end imaginable). More than likely with Demona heavily involved in the very last episode, though I wouldn't rule out us falling for the main characters that'd be new to that series and coming to care about them enough that they could be appreciated as the stars at the very end.

If Greg had his say in the matter though, I could see Dark Ages finishing it all off with some sort of parallel or meaningful revelation that relates to some of the later years of the Garg universe. Or just something involving the originals that'd have the audience tearing up somethin fierce.
Kris - [Ontario, Canada]
posted @ Sun, Mar 26, 2006 7:19:41 am EST from 24.137.192.172

Have to back up....

Quote: Matt-->Geeez, do we worship him or what!?<--End Quote

I believe it. For all the Greg worship that goes on here we should erect a temple in his honor.

If we're sent to the rookery, will I still be able to make pizza?
The Winged Vampire - [The_Winged_Vampire@hotmail.com]
It's morphin' time!
posted @ Sun, Mar 26, 2006 3:16:52 am EST from 216.37.226.69

BrooksBabe "All My Rookery brothers are dead-and there is nothing-nothing more important than family!" Geez, haven't heard the ep in a long time but the words still ring loud & clear in my head. Think I got the quote right. Still, it was ...foreshadowing (think that's the right writers term) for the following ep when Coldstone shows up...ah, the twisted tales that the gargoyles storyline would weave. I so loved it. Then again the show was full of that sort of thing. I liked it the most because the characters weren't all perfect. So many shows of this type have the obvious right from wrong characters - but Gargoyles was much different in that respect. The "good guys" had faults. The "bad guys" had some redeeming qualities. it wasn't all black & white.
Of course I liked the episodes people mentioned. I liked "Lighthouse" for the introduction of Robbins character-someone I could relate to-having a visual disability of my own. "Shadows Of The Past" was pretty earth shattering for me. Seeing Goliath afraid was a bit unnerving, but again, it showed the charachers weren't one dimensional. I could run off all my fave eps, but I'd be here all night. "The 5 Part opener", "Deadly Force", "Long Way Til Morning", "Her Brothers Keeper", "Reawakenings" , "The Mirror", "Vows", ...........etc. you know the rest.

As for what I'd like to see revived as a spin off comic or series. I know it likely wouldn't go over well with most, but my personal pick is "Dark Ages". If I'm going to know the future, I'd kind of like to know the past too.
Wouldn't it be rather a cool idea for Hudson in the present, since he's now learned to read & write to maybe be the one to chronicle(sorry, maybe a bad word to use here-cough,sputter) the stories of his past, that being something to hand down to future generations of the clan. I wonder if he would feel that to be un-gargoyle like.

Ah, but it's 1am and I'm rambling. Bed time for Wingless

Let's see if this post gets a response.
Wingless
posted @ Sun, Mar 26, 2006 1:05:31 am EST from 70.27.173.206

Well, a bunch of the episodes that meant a lot to me have already been commented on, so I'll just go from there.

One episode that really hit a cord within me (that I can remember at the moment) is Her Brother's Keeper. Now that I'm an only child, it hits even harder. The message of family, it's strong bonds, and how important family is... really struck home with me. Especially when Goliath points out that all his rookery siblings are gone. The idea of "you never know what you have until it's gone".

For me, it's a really powerful episode.
BrooksBabe - [<<- Clicky, clicky]
"Why does he have to kill them to prove his point? Can't he just show them a pie chart or something?" --Tom Servo
posted @ Sun, Mar 26, 2006 12:20:19 am EST from 64.228.35.144

Yeah, Greg drops by from time to time and unfortunatly for us, this isn't this first time he has threatened to send us hatchlings down to the rookery.

And speaking of the Mayan Clan, who are my favorite Clan, I really would LOVE to see Jade and Turquesa pop up in the comic. It'd be great to see Avalon bring them to NYC for some purpose and have them leave with the Sun Amulet. I have a feeling that besides that event, we won't see a lot of the Mayan Clan until we get to Zafiro of 2198.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"History is the version of past events that people have decided to agree upon." - Napolean Bonaparte
posted @ Sat, Mar 25, 2006 10:17:57 pm EST from 150.201.114.132

Siren> The Mirror. Brooklyn's line "A Mid-Summer Night's Dream." That ONE SINGLE LINE got me hooked on Shakespeare and I'll be forever GREATFUL TO GREG WEISMAN.

GREG, IF YOU'RE READING THIS, THANK YOU!!!

Other than that, no other single episode had more affect (effect?) on me. I love Shakespeare; I own Shakespeare for Dummies and I have been ro Edmonton's River City Shakespeare Festival for three straight years (They perform two different plays a season, for a bout one month in june/july).

Altogether now, I have seen: (In order): Othello, The Merry Wives of Windsor, the Tempest (2nd Fav play), A MIdsummer Night's Dream (Fav play), Twelfth Night, The Merchant of Venice (Where a guy who played the part of the king or governor, looking like Price, right down to the clothes, stole the show), Lave's Labour's Lost and Romeo and Juliet.

If not for GREG and that one single, solitary line, I'd still be missing out on the greatest writing in history. (IMHO).

THANK YOU GREG.

Oh, and I guess I can relate to Avalon II, when Goliath Meets Angela. It's like meeting a long lost relative. I've never met my sister, but hope to one day.

There you go Siren. Is that what you were looking for???
Battle Beast - [Canada]
posted @ Sat, Mar 25, 2006 9:57:10 pm EST from 198.53.28.99

Siren> I don't want to downplay your thoughts because I totally agree with your opinions on those episodes, but I did want to say that Goliath is not a rookery father to any of the Trio. He is only one generation older than they are.

As for meaningful episodes for myself personally:

Avalon Triptych: For myself, the most critical part of this series of episodes was the Magus. He was once this obnoxious @$$hole and he made lots of mistakes, not the least of which was cursing the Clan. Now we see him have to deal with the dissapointments in his life and his guilt. He basically loses everything he loves. The woman he loves, his magical power, even his self-esteem. He is a beaten man and I can't help but sympathize with him. In the end he dies to save the ones he loves, even if they don't love him back, and he dies to try to make up for his mistakes. His death is, for me, the most emotional moment in the series. His story is one of redemption. I love it.

The Green: It is common to see cartoons put an episode into environmental protection, but it is not common to see it handled so realistically and so maturly. The fact that Goliath and Elisa have a disagreement on the issue is SO important to me because it is a symbol of the disagreement in the world over the issue. I think their disagreement is a very important turning point in their relationship, and not one usually mentioned. But the most important part to me is that the Mayan Clan really strongly believes that the forest, the Green, has it's own inherent rights, it's not meant to be owned or used or destroyed on a whim. I strongly share that belief. Furthermore, Zafiro's sad speech about feeling so hopeless and saying, "If only we could so easily banish all who threaten the Green. But there are far too many..." I feel his anguish so strongly there. Protecting the environment feels so hopeless sometimes. Every day many acres of forest are lost, countless tons of pollution enter the water and air and untold amounts of species are driven to extinction. It's hard to keep the faith. Luckily for the Gargoyles Universe, there exists a magical island with the proper climate to support tropical plants, we are not so fortunate.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"History is the version of past events that people have decided to agree upon." - Napolean Bonaparte
posted @ Sat, Mar 25, 2006 9:28:07 pm EST from 150.201.114.132

Winged Vampire > Greg pops in now and then, usually to drop off some little tidbit of news.
Very rarely do we need a 'verbal' smackdown from the fandom Dad :)
Chameleongirl - [<-- Come to the Gathering!]
Chameleon may change her spots, but she refuses to do plaid
posted @ Sat, Mar 25, 2006 9:20:01 pm EST from 202.87.162.31

I thought up a discussion that I don't think has been done in a long time...

What is the most meaningful episode(s) of Gargoyles and why? This is not about the CHARACTERS....but about YOU. What episode(s) struck deep into your core? Moved you? To happiness, anger, tears? Not because of the Gargoyles themselves, but because it meant something to YOU alone.

For me...

Temptation:
I could feel that inner-struggle of Brooklyn. Frankly, I've seen things that "blasted my soul". Stuff that just makes me wish I could be anything but human. I can be proud of my heritage, but can I feel strongly to be so proud of being human? To be a species above all else? When my own species does so much crime and hate to itself and even other species? I still watch that episode in horror and awe.

Lighthouse on the Sea of Time:
It seriously bothers me to meet people who don't care to know how to read. I wonder how they go through life. When I worked at the Humane Society, we have signs everywhere, mostly signs about keeping out of areas and not going near certain animals....all the signs for public safety. One day, I heard a commotion and came around to see a guy had opened a door which had a sign that read "No Public Admintance! Authorized Personal ONLY! BITE CASES!". 4 dogs were in there and going nuts. Those dogs were there for biting other dogs, not people, they liked me and the other workers, but they knew HE didn't belong there. I told him to get out of the room and pointed to the sign, "I can't read." and shrugged.
He goes through this world walking through closed doors with signs on them and thinks they say "Welcome, come on in!"? To have a show that deals with ADULT illitercy was just fantastic. It means a lot of me as an avid reader and writer. I love to hear children read. And to have such a wonderful show deal with it, in such a non-preachy matter was fantastic. It just means a lot to me. I only wish more people saw the show to apprieciate this.

Deadly Force:
Of course this has to be on my list. I don't own a gun. I never plan to. However, I don't believe guns kill people. I believe people kill people. As much as people think this episode was ONLY speaking to the kids, it wasn't. It was talking to the parents. It never felt like "Guns bad". It was about being a responsible parent. And if Elisa is part of the clan and in effect, Goliath's mate, that makes her a rookery mother, for Brooklyn, Broadway, Lexington, and Angela. She is a mother to them. She has a respondsibility to keep them safe and keep her gun locked up where they neither know where it is nor how to open it. Broadway learned a very hard lesson, but Elisa learned an even bigger one. Kudos to Greg W. and the rest of the team to this and every other episode, especially the ones that meant something to someone!
Siren - [sirengarg@yahoo.com]
Click my name for my newest Gargoyles (Brooklyn/Maggie/Talon) music video!
posted @ Sat, Mar 25, 2006 8:18:01 pm EST from 65.33.112.205

I was under the impression that had Greg done the third season of Gargoyles, Brooklyn's trip would have begun sometime during that season... (I could be wrong, just an impression)

So, I don't think Brooklyn is going to vanish and return in issue #3 already, but it won't be too much longer I wouldn't think. It depends on what Greg wants to do with Brooklyn prior to Timedancer, and what state he wants the other characters to be in when the "big trip" happens and suddenly BANG! Brooklyn's 40 years older, with kids and a mate.
Stormy
posted @ Sat, Mar 25, 2006 8:16:38 pm EST from 142.167.199.110

I actually totally agree with Ed's rundown. Which is surprising. For a tv series, I've always hoped for the "Dark Ages" spinoff most of all, but with comics... I dunno, I feel something like "Pendragon" would work the best. I think "Bad Guys" fits in with the standard "superhero team" comic format. I think "Gargoyles: 2198" is far too grand for a small format. Hell, it almost seems too big for a television series, at least until some of the other spinoffs develop more. I think if "Gargoyles" and "Timedancer" get some run, 2198 would have a better shot.

Speaking of Timedancer, does anyone know how soon Brooklyn is supposed to be off on his little World Tour? I mean, Greg W said we won't see a lot of new material until Issue 3, but I can't help but feel thats rather quick. I dunno, anyone have any idea?
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"History is the version of past events that people have decided to agree upon." - Napolean Bonaparte
posted @ Sat, Mar 25, 2006 7:32:04 pm EST from 150.201.114.132

Man, did I miss something in the past couple nights. Does Greg W. usually poke in like this?
The Winged Vampire - [The_Winged_Vampire@hotmail.com]
It's morphin' time!
posted @ Sat, Mar 25, 2006 7:30:34 pm EST from 199.224.75.241

The number one spinoff I'd pick is Timedancer. It'll be so weird when Brooklyn disappears from the comic, and comes back older with a mate and kids. It would be worth finding out what he did during that time. It could even be done as a miniseries, to test to see how well it would sell, and if it sold well, it could become a regular series "filling in some of the blanks" from the miniseries.

I think "Pendragon" might have the most appeal to people outside the immediate Gargoyles fandom, since King Arthur already has a "fandom" of his own of sorts.
Stormy
posted @ Sat, Mar 25, 2006 6:55:51 pm EST from 142.167.199.110

Spin-offs... well, I'd actually be interested in all of them or any of them. But tying together my own preferences with more practical considerations like what's going to work best in comic form, what's going to pull in new readers and so on, my reverse order of preference is as follows:

In reverse order of preference...

6. Gargoyles 2198 -- Love the pitch. But it seems like the 'fresh start' option of the six. 'Gargoyles' doesn't need a fresh start -- there's so much material in play as it is. Besides, as long as present-day stories are being told, I don't really want to know too much more about the futures of Owen, Demona etc.

5. The New Olympians -- I'm actually a big fan of these guys and I think they could be seriously interesting. But for some reason, a lot of fans never really warmed to them, and they aren't major enough to be instantly recognised by casual fans. So I'm not sure spinning them off would be the best choice. That said, a lot of fans would buy it anyway, and as a way of bringing in comics readers not necessarily familiar with the Gargoylesverse before, I think it could be good. It's a relative blank slate where the comic continuity could be the most important, and the weird and wonderful creatures of New Olympus would look great in comics.

4. Bad Guys -- There seem to be quite a lot of good action comics around at present, such as "The Losers" and "Queen and Country". As wonderful as it would be to get a regular dose of Fang (and others), the characters are all relatively minor in the original series and I'm not convinced they'd have a strong break-out appeal to newbies in a tough market.

3. Timedancer -- Brooklyn's popular and the idea is a strong one and should provide lots of interesting stories. It sounds like it could also absorb 2198 into it in due course. My only slight worry is that timedancing really suits the more anthology-type feel of an animation series rather than an ongoing comic. I'm not sure it's playing to the format's strengths -- but hopefully, that will actually be advantageous as an advertising strategy if people get curious about what crazy places Brooklyn ends up in.

2. Dark Ages -- The Manhattan Clan are obviously very recognisable, so going back in time would strongly complement the main title. Plus, the historicals were always a really strong suit of the original show and the possibilities of exploring the past are tantalising.

1. Pendragon -- Yeah, yeah, big surprise coming from me. But Arthur was introduced in the original show so he's out there in the Gargoylesverse NOW, but he's still a fairly blank slate so newbies can feel like they're getting in on the ground floor. The cast is small enough to be accessible, and Arthur has more name recognition than the rest of the spin-off characters put together so there's a fair chance it'll pull outside the comic's usual audience. With the Illuminati, it seems there's a good opportunity for it to pick up a lot of loose threads from 'Gargoyles' and the BG proposal.
Ed
posted @ Sat, Mar 25, 2006 6:55:09 pm EST from 213.187.38.108

Like the majority here, I'd like to see "Dark Ages" myself. "Pendragon" would be my second pick, followed by either "Timedancer" or "Gargoyles: 2198".
Spen
"There are three kinds of people; those who can't count, and those who can." - Wilek Nereus
posted @ Sat, Mar 25, 2006 6:53:08 pm EST from 216.248.119.208

I got a postcard advertising the Gathering 2006 in the mail today, and quite a fancy-looking one too. The Gathering staff definitely seem to have gotten some good funding for their "spread the word" department.

Re spin-offs: I'd really like to see "Pendragon", to find out how Arthur and Griff's quest for Merlin went (not to mention that it would offer perhaps the best possibility for an exploration of Duval; I still want to know how he juggles being the keeper of the Holy Grail with being the leader of a secret society that does a number of things that I can't see the Grail approving of). I don't think that the set-up would be so complicated, since King Arthur is a very well-known legendary figure; the only person whom you'd immediately need to introduce would be Griff. (Since Arthur hadn't met the Illuminati yet by the end of "Pendragon", they could be introduced to the reader through Arthur encountering and discovering their existence.)

"Dark Ages" would be a close second; I'm still a big fan of the medieval flashbacks portion of "Gargoyles".
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Sat, Mar 25, 2006 6:51:54 pm EST from 4.244.18.175

I'd have to go with Bad Guys. I always loved the idea of a team of Villains having to play the part of used lackies, but not quite heros.
Revel
We fight for Cheese!"
posted @ Sat, Mar 25, 2006 6:33:04 pm EST from 70.185.6.104

I'm glad to hear that the postcards have gotten out okay. I was a little worried that the bright colors and pretty pictures would totally confuse post office. ;)

I wouldn't mind seeing the "Timedancer" or "Bad Guys" spinoffs get made. I'd like to hope they could be done well without seeming too much like "Quantum Leap" and "The A-Team."

90 days left until The Gathering 2006 in Valencia, California!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2006]
"Oh boy." - Dr. Sam Beckett
posted @ Sat, Mar 25, 2006 6:23:48 pm EST from 68.76.122.104

I'm with Demonskrye on wanting to see "Dark Ages." Being the barbarian that I am, I'm fascinated by that sort of thing. Some of my favorite moments in the series are the bits where we get to see 10th-century Scotland. Granted, we all know what eventually happens to some of the major players, but I think it's in the telling of their early stories where the interest will lie.
Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail.com]
"Live for glory, strength and fury; play your part in the greater scheme of life and nature" - Inkubus Sukkubus
posted @ Sat, Mar 25, 2006 5:52:04 pm EST from 24.126.11.109

"Gargoyles: 2198" would be my first choice for a spin-off. I like what I've heard about this particular spin-off. And, I think it would be the easiest to market also.

"Bad Guys" would be my second choice.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Plato once said that for everything that exists, there is a perfect form of it somewhere. A perfect human being, a perfect chair, a perfect stick, so that everything is a shadow of that one perfect form. Now, if we follow that train of thought, that means that somewhere in the universe there exists the perfect form of the perfect absolute and complete idiot and he left here an hour ago." - Matthew Gideon
posted @ Sat, Mar 25, 2006 5:48:25 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

In the interest of starting fresh, what's everyone's first choice for a spin-off comic if we get one? I know we've discussed this before a while back, but now that the comic is becoming a reality and we know what format a spin-off series would most likely be in ( as opposed to maybe another TV show or a movie), I think it's worht bringing up again.

My top choice would be "Dark Ages". I've wanted to see more about the clan's background in Scotland for a long time, especially how a young gargoyle is trained to be a warrior and the development of Goliath and Demona's relationship. And I loved Greg's "Once Upon a Time There Were Three Brothers", which apparently leaves off right where "Dark Ages" begins.

Aside from that, I think the strongest choices would be "TimeDancer", which would require enough issues of the regular comic for new readers to get to know Brooklyn, but does feature one of the main characters from "Gargoyles"; "Gargoyles: 2198", which again, kind of requires you to at least know who Brooklyn and Demona are as far as I know, but mostly features major or new characters. "New Olympians" would also be a good choice because to the eatent of my knowledge, you don't really need to know anything about "Gargoyles" to understand it. Though I'd like to see "Pendragon" or "Bad Guys", both of them require the reader to know a number of secondary characters from the show. They seem like possibilities for a spin-off later on or to be folded into the main book.

Thoughts?
Demonskrye
posted @ Sat, Mar 25, 2006 5:44:00 pm EST from 209.6.250.47

I love when Greg W drops by. He always knows what to say.

Geeez, do we worship him or what!?
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"History is the version of past events that people have decided to agree upon." - Napolean Bonaparte
posted @ Sat, Mar 25, 2006 1:16:41 pm EST from 150.201.114.132

oh, that makes sense, thanks Stormy. I just found it hard to believe the animators could make a mistake as big as bringing back a dead character with no explanation for their revival (unlike the disapearing wing ribs, lol).
Dragomir
"Don't hate me because I'm devious," Demona cues as she strikes an enticing pose for the audience, evoking jealous glares from the other contestants
posted @ Sat, Mar 25, 2006 11:00:28 am EST from 71.192.76.212

What I suspect that plot hole was, was an animator looking up the "Regular character model" sheets and drawing in Margot, not realizing that Demona smashing her meant she was dead.

Therefore, in story sense, that couldn't be Margot because Margot is obviously not dead. Therefore it must be a lookalike :)

***

Man. I remember how I used to do a poll about the Gargoyles toys every year, but that kind of lost its appeal when new merchandise stopped coming out. Still, I'm half tempted to do one for old times' sake.

Maybe when I get back from my business trip...
Stormy
posted @ Sat, Mar 25, 2006 9:17:34 am EST from 142.167.215.171

i checked the archives, and the answer makes little sense. How can we tell if Margot's look alike had a different hair color from Margot if we only saw her as stone? There is no way that woman wasn't Margot, way too big a resemblance to be a mistake. I smell a plot hole...but whatever, not worth it.
Dragomir
"Don't hate me because I'm devious," Demona cues as she strikes an enticing pose for the audience, evoking jealous glares from the other contestants
posted @ Sat, Mar 25, 2006 8:44:21 am EST from 71.192.76.212

Dragonmir - Check Ask Greg. He's already dealt with the issue in the archives. They just happen to be look-alikes.

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/archives.php?lid=148

In fact, I spent all of 5 seconds looking for that piece of information. How? I went to browse Ask Greg Archives. There's a special category called "Brendon and Margot". That's the link.

See, it does not take long to look up answers.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Sat, Mar 25, 2006 1:11:36 am EST from 63.232.251.152

Greg W> Always great to hear from you Mr. Weisman, just wish it wasn't usually due to bad behavior on our part, lol. I'm sure everyone here will do their very best to refrain from flaming, dead horse beating, and trying to get the last word in from now on. Thanks again and have a good weekend, good luck with the comic! I personally love Angela's new look.

Everyone> Hey guys, I was watching City of Stone part II tonight on DVD and noticed something amiss. I'm sure you guys all remember Margot Yale, that gargoyle hating lady who always seems to run into the Manhattan Clan in the weirdest of places, lol. Anywho, I believe that she is supposed to be dead! I watched the part in which Demona goes about the city smashing and blasting humans turned stone at random, and I'm pretty sure that one of those unlucky humans was Margot. At one point Demona leans against a stone human that looks exactly like Margot Yale standing beside her spineless husband. Before Demona leaves to stop Xanatos from destroying her broadcast, she fires her laser cannon at Margot and reduces her to rubble. I mention this because I'm certain that I've seen her in episodes following the City of Stone Saga, meaning that either she was revived and put back together after Demona's spell was broken, or that there exists a minor plot hole in the story (minor simply because Margot was never a key character and was mostly there just to be scared witless whenever she met a gargoyle, lol). I'm sure there exists a good explanation for this and that you garg veterans out there will find my newbie question humorous, but still welcome any answers you guys can give. Thanks a bunch and good night!!!
Dragomir
"Don't hate me because I'm devious," Demona cues as she strikes an enticing pose for the audience, evoking jealous glares from the other contestants
posted @ Sat, Mar 25, 2006 12:25:00 am EST from 71.192.76.212

Thank you Greg W. Maybe the beating of the dead horse can stop now.
Siren - [sirengarg@yahoo.com]
Click my name for my newest Gargoyles (Brooklyn/Maggie/Talon) music video!
posted @ Fri, Mar 24, 2006 8:32:08 pm EST from 65.33.112.205

Matt: Go up to the counter and ask if the store will be ordering "Gargoyles" by Slave Labor. Most stores will allow you to set up an account in your name so that, when new issues you've ordered come in, they are set aside for you. Some stores will ask for a small deposit or a store membership (this is their way of not losing money for those deadbeat customers who order comics and never come to pick them up). The deposit is usually refundable any time you're willing to stop getting comics set aside for you there.
Stormy
posted @ Fri, Mar 24, 2006 8:02:12 pm EST from 142.167.209.17

Thanks for stopping by, Greg. We really appreciate your presence. (And, yes, we're making assumptions when we believe that the writing is going to be good, but the writing for "The Journey" was indeed good - things like the irony in Castaway's recruitment speech, the contrast between Margot's beliefs about gargoyles and the truth, and Vinnie's demonstration that a few simple words, in the rightcontext, can be truly eloquent.)

I'll admit that I pay more attention to the story than the art (I'm a writer rather than an artist at heart, for one thing - and trust me, after looking at some of the things that I've recently drawn, I can assure you that you wouldn't want me to do the drawing for the comics). I do think that the drawing of Travis Marshall needs work (as I said, I could barely recognize him). But I paid more attention to what was in the speech balloons than to the art itself.

MATT - Good points about my "modest proposal". To quote T. H. White's Merlin, "The suggestion was more to provoke thought, than to be thought of."
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Fri, Mar 24, 2006 7:07:50 pm EST from 4.244.208.18

I can see where you're coming from, Greg. And I agree for the most part. I think.

And we do make an assumption about the writing just because you're writing it. I personally am making a generalization from the great episodes that you've written. You could have lost your touch, but my money's on the guess that you haven't.
Lord GargFan
posted @ Fri, Mar 24, 2006 6:52:39 pm EST from 67.185.229.228

TLDR
O RLY?
Somebody call a WAAAmbulance
posted @ Fri, Mar 24, 2006 6:25:19 pm EST from 216.220.208.114

Greg, do you like corn?
LOL
posted @ Fri, Mar 24, 2006 6:12:39 pm EST from 69.226.212.209

Hi greg W!
Dan
posted @ Fri, Mar 24, 2006 6:11:29 pm EST from 68.42.25.193

Here, here.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Fri, Mar 24, 2006 4:45:01 pm EST from 198.53.28.99

I second Greg's motion.
Alex Garg
All in favor say, "Aye!"
posted @ Fri, Mar 24, 2006 4:40:26 pm EST from 216.145.68.246

I have really gotta stop coming in here.

<sigh>

This is so bloody obvious, I can't believe I feel the need to say it. But here goes...

EVERYONE is entitled to their opinion and has the right to EXPRESS that opinion. I don't see anyone here who is attempting to "represent" the fandom with their opinion. I think that charge is outta line on both sides of the aisle.

My advice, and that's all it is, is to discuss the opinions. Not to discuss whether those opinions should or should not be expressed. Trust me guys, as an expert dead horse beater from way back -- you've beaten THAT beast to a fine mist.

Are there WAYS to express an opinion (on either side) that are more diplomatic... less rude... less hurtful? Yeah, maybe. And yeah maybe that would be appreciated on occasion. But I don't even want to dictate that. A person puts his or her work out professionally, he or she is inviting criticism. That's just the nature of the gig. But on the critic's part, keeping perspective -- keeping in mind that even finished pages represent part of a learning curve, represent limits of time, resources and funds, represent real human beings doing their best -- probably wouldn't hurt the dialogue in this place at all. But that's not to say that anyone -- MYSELF INCLUDED -- should be considered immune to criticism. (And I truly do love how you are all SO sure that the writing is going to be great. All you've seen of that are a few pages (some without word balloons) adapted from an existing story. For all you know the writing could really SUCK. Seriously. I mean I don't think it does. I like to think it'll rock your worlds. But what do YOU GUYS know about it?)

For the record, I like the art. I'm not an artist myself, but I have worked in comics and animation since 1983. And I KNOW what I like. I'll grant it's not perfect, but I think most of you know me well enough to know that I wouldn't praise it if I didn't think the praise was warranted. Have I seen better? Well, yeah, I suppose so. But I've seen tons of paid professional work that's a lot, lot worse.

I met David for the first time last week, and he's a very nice self-deprecating guy, who knows that he is learning. He's working with me and Greg Guler and seems to appreciate the input he's getting from us. And I think his stuff is improving all the time.

But really all that's immaterial. In a vacuum, I LIKE IT. It grabs me. Brings me in to the world. Yes, even the finished pages (which aren't actually finished pages in point of fact) that you've already seen.

Having said all that, feel free to disagree with me. But can we please, please, ditch all the SNIPING.

Just as an experiment, try stopping it now. Let someone else below my post GET THE LAST WORD on the subject. Don't feel the need to beat back. If you've said your piece, let it go. Just to see what would happen...
Greg Weisman
Greg Weisman
posted @ Fri, Mar 24, 2006 4:30:04 pm EST from 72.25.64.98

I lost what I was going to say to the "Back to the Comment Room" button. But it went something like this:

"True fans are those who care about the show. Anyone reading this is a true fan. Anyone who cares enough to go into a Gargoyles Comment Room is a true fan. The only fan who's not a true fan is someone who enjoys the episodes, knows about the comic, DVD and Gathering, and can afford at least one of those things, and still does nothing."

"The art in the comic is just not what we're used to. I couldn't do better, no matter how hard I tried. It's like asking an artist (who's already done some work and can easily get some) to do their interpretation of "The Scream." There's room for improvement, but Hedgecock could be sacked and the replacement is worse."
Lord GargFan
I hate trying to reconstruct what I've said.
posted @ Fri, Mar 24, 2006 4:22:38 pm EST from 67.185.229.228

Kanthara> I checked out your link, and I LOVE YOUR FANART! I mean, they are so well done and colored! I like that yellow punk gargoyle you came up with, she's cool and cute all at once (love punk outfits). Oh yeah, I liked that blue female gargoyle warrior with the beak, she looks totally bad ass with that sword. Never been a big fan of beaked females, but Corally is just SOOOOO COOL! Keep up the great work Kanthara!

P.S. Wish I could draw gargs that good, I just make colorless doodles of Demona and a fanfic character I came up with in my notebook.
Dragomir
"Don't hate me because I'm devious," Demona cues as she strikes an enticing pose for the audience, evoking jealous glares from the other contestants
posted @ Fri, Mar 24, 2006 3:02:21 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

OK, I was not here last week, so I'm just getting around to looking at the CBR article now. (I linked my name to it for anyone else who might have missed it.) Having now checked out the artwork, I have to say that I'm not very happy with the artwork either. I'm not going to launch into a full critique, but there are anatomy problems, there are lines that don't make much sense, the figures don't have enough sturcutre or fluidity, and they are veering towards off model in places. I think that colored sketch of Goliath we saw earlier kind of set the tone for how the coloring on this books was going to work. There's not much of a sense of volume in the drawing, so the colorist seems to be trying to flesh things out by putting in a large number of tones. But having that many highlitghts and shadows without gradations between them tends to make a character look....shiny. I showed the artwork to my fiance, who studied sequential art in college, to get his opinion. He said "It's unprofessional garbage. That said, it could be worse." Maybe a little blunt, but not really unwarranted. And it could be worse, believe me. There are a lot of really awful comic artists out there, and at least this guy can lay out a page and transition between panels reasonably well.

So the question is, what do we do now that we've seen it and formed our opinions? Well, this is a case where each one of us needs to make an individual choice. There are times when we can do something as a fandom, like promoting the DVD release and trying to buy our copies on the same day. But this is a matter where not everyone agrees and it's not even a simple yes or no problem. Each of us has to take what we know about this comic and ask "Is this worth it to me?" If you think the art is fine, then presumably you have no problem here. If you have qualms about it, then you have a decision to make. Is the artwork distasteful enough that you don't think you will enjoy the comic? Is it worth dealing with the art to read the first new canon "Gargoyles" story in over a decade? Does your desire to support "Gargoyles" in any form outwiegh your problems with the art, or do you think that supporting what you feel is inferior product just weakens "Gargoyles"? Does the fact that Greg Weisman has seen and apparently likes the art sway you one way or the other?

I agree with the idea that being a fan does not mean just blindly following your chosen franchise around without question. I don't think that a person should be so beholden to anyone or anything that they check their critical thinking at the door. So each of us needs to look at the information we have and decide what we think is best to do. You want to go ahead and buy the book even though you're not nuts about the art? That is fine. You love the art and can't wait to get your hands on the comic? Fine also. You won't buy the book because you think the art is that bad and "Gargoyles" deserves better? Prefectly fine. You're so happy to be able to support "Gargoyles" with new stories that you're going to buy every copy you can find? Go nuts. You want to write to Slave Labor or the artist himself and let them know what you think? Go right ahead.

The main thing to remember is that this is going to be a matter of individual opinion. There isn't a "fandom view" here and the only thing I am not fine with is if anyone tries to represent their P.O.V. as being the opinion of the whole fandom. (I'm not accusing anyone of doing this, just making a generic exmaple.) We can talk about this, we can take whatever actions we want to or not take whatever actions we don't want to. But in the end, whether you like the art or not and what you decide to do about how you feel is going to be a matter of personal opinion and debating personal opinion does not usually lead to objective or fun discussions. Perhaps it would be best if we tell people what we think and what we're going to do and leave it there. Certainly we can explain why we feel the way we do, but I think trying to convince other people that our opinion has more validity than theirs is a futile battle.

Yeah, I stink at lurking.
Demonskrye - [<----CBR Article]
It's Your Call
posted @ Fri, Mar 24, 2006 11:52:47 am EST from 67.100.23.24

I'll throw in my two cents as well. I like the art. The characters in the comic don't quite look the same as they did in "Awakenings", but the characters in "Enter Macbeth" didn't either.

I buy all the Disney comics published by Gemstone (Uncle Scrooge, Mickey Mouse, etc.). Each issue features several stories by different writers and artists. Some of the art I like more than others, but its all Uncle Scrooge, and I can accept that.
Phil - [p1anderson@go.com]
posted @ Fri, Mar 24, 2006 10:12:50 am EST from 69.129.121.95

Matt> If you're looking for fanart of a beaked female, I have made such a character myself. Her name is Coraly, and if you click on my link, you'll end up on my website. There are sketches of her in the Gargoyles section of the Sketchbook, finished art in the Studio, and fanart done by others of her in the Gallery.
Kanthara - [karine@kantharasloft.net]
posted @ Fri, Mar 24, 2006 10:08:20 am EST from 70.81.185.161

I was really tempted to let this pass, but that old saw about all it takes for the bad guys to win is for the good ones to do nothing kept kicking me.

This is one of those times. Once again the same old group of people have decided that they are the arbiters, the spokespeople, for all things Gargoyles. They're not, but they figure if they whine and complain enough then their voices will be heard among all others and they'll be taken as the majority view when in fact they represent a faction comprised of a handful. Of course, they don't see it as whining and complaining. They view themselves as being "helpful".

I received a postcard in the mail yesterday promoting the Gathering. It had artwork comissioned by SLG on the front of it. It seems to me that the same people who are using SLG to promote the Gathering are at the same time biting the hand of their benefactors and doing a disservice to the Gathering as a whole.

Slave Labor isn't the riches of comic book publishers. They are, no doubt doing the best they can with the resources they have available. And yet, instead of supporting them and the property they are producing on all our behalfs, their artist and by extension the company as a whole is being torn down. And no, after a while and enough whining and kevetching they won't see a difference. And yes, that could affect a future management decision about which book to keep and which to kill.

I'm going back to lurk mode now. My best to everyone.
kathy
Yep, there's life beyond Gargoyles, and some of it's darned interesting.
posted @ Fri, Mar 24, 2006 9:13:16 am EST from 69.19.14.28

Matt> Sorry dude, don't know where you can find beaked female gargoyle pics, but I believe I saw one of a grown up Ariana once in the fanart competition room, you know, the one they update with new fanart themes each week.
Dragomir
"Don't hate me because I'm devious," Demona cues as she strikes an enticing pose for the audience, evoking jealous glares from the other contestants
posted @ Fri, Mar 24, 2006 8:32:53 am EST from 71.192.76.212

Todd> For one thing we don't all agree on that, so we couldn't do it "together". Besides if the fans are asking for a delay, what is to stop SLG from just cancelling the whole project.

I really feel a lot of those that don't like the art are blowing it's poor quality out of purportion. It's not perfect, but c'mon, is it really THAT bad?

Patrick> Your analogy is a good one, but our team hasn't even played a full game in the pre-season yet.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"History is the version of past events that people have decided to agree upon." - Napolean Bonaparte
posted @ Fri, Mar 24, 2006 7:59:05 am EST from 150.201.114.132

A modest proposal (admittedly impractical, but one that may provoke thought for a solution).

Why not all write together to Slave Labor Graphics, explaining that we believe that the person doing the interior art is producing an inferior product, and urging them to delay the release of the comic by a few months in order to find somebody better for the job, making it clear that we're willing to wait a few months longer to get some good art for the comic?
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Fri, Mar 24, 2006 7:35:16 am EST from 4.244.213.255

Whether or not the head coach supports the team owner's choice for quarterback really has no bearing on what the team's fans are going to think. Maybe a few fans will be swayed, but most are going to judge the players on how well they perform, period. And rare is the fan who ignores the pre-season. Most people who've been following the game for any length of time will be able to form a good idea of how the season is going to go before the first "game that counts" is even played.

Have I used this analogy to death yet?

91 days left until The Gathering 2006 in Valencia, California!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2006]
"Hello, I'm looking for Ray Finkle... and a clean pair of shorts." - Ace Ventura
posted @ Fri, Mar 24, 2006 6:59:06 am EST from 68.76.122.104

JJ-- Ehm... While I WOULD like to hear why Greg thinks Hedgecock's art is great, I don't think calling him out is all that wise.

...

...Just for the record, I pretty well glossed over some of the issues I have with what we've seen from Hedgecock so far. I could go into VERY gory detail on the seven pages we've seen alone, and draw up some anatomy/proportion comparisson sketches (but that might be a bit much). Let's just say, the things I addressed in my previous post are just the tip of the iceberg.
Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail.com]
"Live for glory, strength and fury; play your part in the greater scheme of life and nature" - Inkubus Sukkubus
posted @ Fri, Mar 24, 2006 1:35:07 am EST from 24.126.11.109

I'm not a comic connoisseur, so I will withhold judgement on the artwork.

However, nobody seems to have brought this up:
Greg Weisman seems to like the interior artist! In Ask Greg, he's even gone so far as to say "I'm very excited about the pages I'm seeing from these guys." (http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=8346)

Considering fan response to the presumably finished product, I think it would behoove Greg Weisman to publicly defend the artists.

Greg, if you're reading this, you must know that even though you like his art, David Hedgecock's getting grilled here. This isn't a good situation right now. What are you seeing that Kythera isn't, considering the technical issues she brought up?
JJ Gregarius
Like the man said, "There are no problems; only solutions!"
posted @ Fri, Mar 24, 2006 1:18:13 am EST from 206.57.92.155

Go to your comic shop and ask them to order it for you and they will.

The ad is on page 223 of Previews this month.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/gregx/GargoylesPreview.jpg
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Plato once said that for everything that exists, there is a perfect form of it somewhere. A perfect human being, a perfect chair, a perfect stick, so that everything is a shadow of that one perfect form. Now, if we follow that train of thought, that means that somewhere in the universe there exists the perfect form of the perfect absolute and complete idiot and he left here an hour ago." - Matthew Gideon
posted @ Fri, Mar 24, 2006 12:20:23 am EST from 65.33.202.237

Double-post, why the effin hell does the Mosh Pit link keep reappearing in the web site field, and why will it not stay cleared?????
The Winged Vampire - [The_Winged_Vampire@hotmail.com]
It's morphin' time!
posted @ Fri, Mar 24, 2006 12:14:28 am EST from 205.238.195.123

Quote: Matt-->1. In regards to making sure particular comic stores will carry Gargoyles, what exactly should I say to the guy behind the counter? While I have been a comic fan for years, I've never requested a specific comic be carried. Should I just say "Will you guys carry Gargoyles, please?"<--End Quote

I believe it's a start. Be on your toes because you may need to provide more input, such as what comic platform releases it. (For example, X-Men, Marvel Comics)
The Winged Vampire - [The_Winged_Vampire@hotmail.com]
It's morphin' time!
posted @ Fri, Mar 24, 2006 12:12:09 am EST from 205.238.195.123

Believe it or not, I think Kythera did a good job of explaining her thoughts, and perhaps part of the reason I say this is that she did actually praise what she found good in the comic.

Anyway, obviously there are a lot of disagreements on this whole comic issue, some hate the interior art, some love it, some are impartial, but I suppose it is encouraging that we all seem to agree that the writing and cover art are very good.

I am getting weary of this topic, I think we all know where we stand on it and argueing isn't going to change anything, only cause more conflict. I just hope it is recognized that a large portion of the fandom likes/supports the interior art. I don't want anyone to come to this Room and observe that "The fandom hates the interior art." Some people do, some don't. Way of the world, lets all get over it.

Though I have to say, I have looked at the comic pages a hundred times and I still see no instance of Brooklyn missing his neck. Most the time his neck is clearly visable, and in the frame where they are watching tv he merely looks like he is intently leaning towards the television. I can understand the complaints about Goliath's hands/wrists, but to me its a minor flaw. Just my opinion, of course. However, even if it is the final product, it is only a few pages, not the whole thing. We should be patient and see how the whole book comes together in June.

Two questions:

1. In regards to making sure particular comic stores will carry Gargoyles, what exactly should I say to the guy behind the counter? While I have been a comic fan for years, I've never requested a specific comic be carried. Should I just say "Will you guys carry Gargoyles, please?"

2. Does anyone know where I can find some fan-art of female gargoyles WITH beaks? I've only ever found one or two pictures done by Christi Smith Hayden. I'm trying to get some ideas of what beaked female gargoyles look like. We didn't see any in the series unless it was someone in the background in Ishimura.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"History is the version of past events that people have decided to agree upon." - Napolean Bonaparte
posted @ Fri, Mar 24, 2006 12:04:33 am EST from 150.201.114.132

Matt> Its just well to be honest. I saw better artwork on the disney gargoyle toys line up boxes. the disney childrens pop up story book that was 5 pages and other things then the comic to be honest, but im still going to buy a copy and support it. My reasons though for being this way are not be be hashing up the comic. My reason is simply ,,,,, for a comic to sell in this day and age you need the good artwork. The comic will sell in this fandom yes. But to keep it going it needs to sell outside the fandom. With artwork like that its going to be hard for someone to pick it up off the shelf who is not in the fandom.

Agian example of this. The DVD sales.
shara - [<---------Gargoyle Webcomic]
posted @ Thu, Mar 23, 2006 11:44:37 pm EST from 4.246.214.157

Quote: Harvester of Eyes-->WV: You're not the only one on a frenzy. Guess I should read links before I post. Anyway, I'm wondering just what trap this nameless person might have been referring to.<-- End Quote

I'm not entirely sure. I can only guess he means something with Matt or another person on this board. He's not nameless. I am just not at liberty to say what it is. However, everyone he associates with online knows him as "Shendu", which surprising enough, he uses my name instead of the "Shendu" he normally uses. Since this past weekend I have considered him nothing more that a douche now that I've been made the ass of his sick little prank.

Quote: Matt-->Also, big thanks to Winged Vampire for taking on the CR recap. I think you did a good job. And I had no time to do it this week, so I'm glad you took the initiative.<--End Quote

Anytime, man.

Quote: Matt-->I totally agree Christine. That is why so many of us, myself included, reject the Goliath Chronicles. The stories were incoherant and flawed, the animation was consistantly poor, the series virtually raped our beloved characters and story arcs.<--

I didn't think there was that much wrong with it, save for the stories in this season not relating or linking to each other like the previous seasons, and that it ended it all too quickly. Other than that I always regarded it as part of the series.

-->The art<--

Talk about beating a dead horse! I fail to see what the big deal is. Hudson is a little bit greener than usual, big effin deal. I'm happy that the comic is coming out. I think it is possible to enjoy it without complaining about something as trivial as an off-color or technique, it is not as bad as it is made to appear here.
The Winged Vampire - [The_Winged_Vampire@hotmail.com]
It's morphin' time!
posted @ Thu, Mar 23, 2006 11:23:37 pm EST from 216.37.226.85

Okay... I'd like to point something out to the folks who are asking how some of us can be so critical of the comic's *interior art* before the book is even on shelves. (I would like to re-emphasise... INTERIOR ART. Not the writing... not the covers... the INTERIOR ART, drawn by David Hedgecock.)

Did you all see the pages that were coloured and had word balloons and lettering and all of that shiny-shinyness? In the world of comics, that usually means "This is the finished product. Huzzah and rejoyce." Those are not works in progress. That's finished interior art, and most probably will not look any different once it's been printed. It may not be stapled and held in our hands, yet, but some of the finishd art is there and available for us to look at (and comment on).

And as for not offering any positives to accompany the criticism of the interior art... HOW many times do we have to say that we know the covers and the writing are going to be effing brilliant? Just to make sure...

THE COVERS AND THE WRITING ARE GOING TO BE EFFING BRILLIANT. OF THIS WE ARE SURE.

I am having a REALLY difficult time finding any positives to the **interior art**. The coloring is flat, the pencilling is generally bad... stiff, not dynamic, and dull, without much variation in line weight. Like Wolff pointed out last week, it looks like it was drawn actual print size, instead of 11 x 17 and scaled down. The basic rules of anatomy and proportion look like they were thrown out the window (Brooklyn sans neck, Goliath's head and hands too big... Actually, EVERYONE's head is too big... but I'm repeating myself). These are things that I can look at in the interior art, and confidently say "It is badly drawn. I don't like it because of these reasons", and ask how the artist can be allowed to call this finished and accept a paycheck for it, let alone call himself a professional. At least the Amanda Connor (artist for the old Marvel comic) knew how to draw people, and draw them WELL. The cast many not have been on-model (Connor definitely renered the visuals in her own style), but her work was all-around more dynamic, interesting and on a *technical* level, mostly correct in anatomy and proportions more often than not. I'd rather see her pencilling the new book than Hedgecock.

I don't think anyone here is criticizing Greg's writing, or the Guler/Lostimolo cover team. What some of us are criticizing is Hedgecock, and how his art is making the rest of the team look bad... literally. So on that note (and getting closer to my point), nobody is attacking the COMIC, itself. Comparing it to TGC is apples and oranges. TGC was bad from writing to art to... everything, insdie and out. What is being criticized here is the *interior art* of the comic. We've been shown some of the finished interiors, and some of us have problems with what the interior artist is doing, and are expressing that. Now that some of us have had time to catch our breath after the inital retching, we can state the reasons why much more coherently. Does that mean we are lesser fans for **Gasp** daring to not be happy with something that this fandom has worked hard for (and we HAVE worked for it... DVDs, comic.. we have been *given* nothing. It's been ten years of contstantly supporting Gargoyles and reminding Disney that we exist, and they can still make money on us)? No, it does not. It also doesn't mean we support the book any less (let alone not at all), but we ARE being genuinely critical of it, because Gargoyles is something that we love, and we want to see it done right, and see it be successful.
Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail.com]
"Live for glory, strength and fury; play your part in the greater scheme of life and nature" - Inkubus Sukkubus
posted @ Thu, Mar 23, 2006 11:14:00 pm EST from 24.126.11.109

Demonic lover: Read carefully. I said Lex was gay, not that he was gay with Brooklyn. Lex hasn't got his partner yet, and Greg has not given us much details about who Lex's special friend will be, though I am pretty sure he is another gargoyle (could be wrong though--I've gotten most of this info through Whitbourne). Brooklyn's pretty obviously straight.

I wasn't here last year--I've been gone from this comment room since 2000, when I went to military college--so I hope I didn't open up a new can of worms here.

Regarding comments, likes, dislikes: It's ridiculous to expect that "true fans" will lap up anything, or that people should self-censor negative comments. No, no, no.

The one thing I find disheartening on Transformers boards is how often I hear "I hate this" and "I hate that" without any explanation why, without any suggestions as to how to make it better, without any mention of the parts they DO like. Soon, tons of "negative buzz" surround something that, if not perfect, is also not utter drek--but newbies think it is, because all they hear is hate.

So by all means, critique the comic art (And it's also disheartening if it's true that all SLG wants to hear is praise, not critique) but hopefully people will also find things they like to talk about.

That doesn't mean anyone should HAVE to make positive posts all the time--it's just...nicer to read when it's obvious that someone is appreciating the good as well as critiquing the bad, and it's also useful to those who are new...so that people get the buzz that "This is GREG writing these stories, they're going to RULE" as well as "Hey, did you know the whole gargoyles fandom hates the art?" <--which is blown out of proportion, but so many internet rumours are.
Stormy
posted @ Thu, Mar 23, 2006 9:58:29 pm EST from 142.167.199.201

I'm not attacking the comic; I'm attacking the "we should be grateful to be getting anything no matter what!" attitude that has sprung up on one side of the debate. I don't wanna SETTLE.

Except, of course, heh-heh, I don't care for the art either. But then I've always been picky about the kind of art I like, which is why I read so few comics anyway and gave up on X-Men so many years ago.
Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
posted @ Thu, Mar 23, 2006 9:44:40 pm EST from 71.112.172.65

MATT> No one is attacking the comic. We are just critisizing the art that we have seen.

Everyone knows Greg will do a good job.

Please, stop saying that we are attacking the comic.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Plato once said that for everything that exists, there is a perfect form of it somewhere. A perfect human being, a perfect chair, a perfect stick, so that everything is a shadow of that one perfect form. Now, if we follow that train of thought, that means that somewhere in the universe there exists the perfect form of the perfect absolute and complete idiot and he left here an hour ago." - Matthew Gideon
posted @ Thu, Mar 23, 2006 9:43:39 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

"Because I feel and have said before, better no Gargoyles at all than bad Gargoyles."

I totally agree Christine. That is why so many of us, myself included, reject the Goliath Chronicles. The stories were incoherant and flawed, the animation was consistantly poor, the series virtually raped our beloved characters and story arcs.

But the fact is, I can not see how the new comic comes close to falling into the category of "bad Gargoyles". With Greg at the helm, the writing and storylines are likely to be superb. And it is obvious to my that the art, while not ideal, isn't terrible and could easily be much worse.

So why are so many fans attacking the comic as if it is just as bad as TGC? It's not. I think the comic is going to be great. If it sucks, I'll say so, but I don't think we've seen anything so far to suggest the comic will suck, Goliath's lack of wrists notwithstanding.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"History is the version of past events that people have decided to agree upon." - Napolean Bonaparte
posted @ Thu, Mar 23, 2006 9:38:28 pm EST from 150.201.114.132

HoE> Just the cover colors... sigh.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Plato once said that for everything that exists, there is a perfect form of it somewhere. A perfect human being, a perfect chair, a perfect stick, so that everything is a shadow of that one perfect form. Now, if we follow that train of thought, that means that somewhere in the universe there exists the perfect form of the perfect absolute and complete idiot and he left here an hour ago." - Matthew Gideon
posted @ Thu, Mar 23, 2006 9:13:11 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

I've never felt that being a fan means being a sheep and blindly accepting and adoring anything and everything just 'cause it's canon. Thither lies madness. Thither lies the Powers That Be feeling that they can dump any kind of crap on us and we'll just lap it up in pitiful gratitude. It's similar to how if people keep shelling out money for crappy movies/books/videogames/whatever, they'll keep MAKING crappy ones. The power to critique that which we don't like is an important part of being a fan. For instance -- I am a big fan of the works of Dean Koontz and Stephen King. I am also a reviewer for The Horror Fiction Review. And when I feel that DK or SK has dropped the ball, I am gonna say so. So, much as I love this show and this fandom, when I see something I don't like, I am going to say so. Because I feel and have said before, better no Gargoyles at all than bad Gargoyles
Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
posted @ Thu, Mar 23, 2006 9:11:34 pm EST from 71.112.172.65

Jade Griffin: I'm sorry for your loss.

Jen: Sorry to hear of your's, as well.

Matt: I agree, but at the same time, constructive criticism is also nice. It's those discussions that usually wind up being more interesting because they spark debate.

Speaking of "Kingdom," did anyone else want that episode to end with a warrior's handshake as opposed to a traditional one?

Patrick: <Heck, in most cases, the really diehard fans are the ones MOST likely to speak their mind> Indeed. I'm a diehard fan of Pink Floyd, have been for years, but I'm first to admit that most of "The Wall" is just Roger Waters's pretentious whining. Something that most fellow Floydians hate it when I mention.

Kris: I too like the interior colors.

Does anyone know if Steph Lostimolo is coloring the entire comic or just the cover art?
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"She said she was a dancer. If I believed it, it was my business. It felt like a merry dance that I was being led." -Ian Anderson.
posted @ Thu, Mar 23, 2006 9:09:22 pm EST from 69.174.3.196

Matt said:
"when 98% of the talk in the Comment Room is about what people hate about the comics, it kinda makes me feel like people are not acting like fans at all, but more like impartial observers."

Sometimes that's how honest criticism is gonna make us look, like "impartial observers". Better that than a slavering rabid, pleased-with-whatever fandom. Participated in Joss Whedon fandoms in the past (Buffy, Angel, Firefly), still do a bit, and it can get pretty annoying how some viewers come to believe that their favorite creators can do no wrong or that nothing that's adapted of their shows can ever be bad. Yes, true, there're fans that become so embittered for whatever reason that there'll never be any chance of pleasing them beyond a certain point in the show's run, but I don't see that at all in the opinions expressed here. Everyone who's criticized has done so fairly.

Still gonna wait 'til June to discuss Hedgecock's linework, but I do wanna say that I really like the interior's colors so far (no, they're not as great as the cover's colors, but they rarely are anyway unless you're Joseph Michael Linsner or that guy Drew who colors Jay Anacleto's stuff).
Kris - [Ontario, Canada]
posted @ Thu, Mar 23, 2006 8:50:07 pm EST from 24.137.192.172

Patrick> Doesn't sound like you read my post at all. I never said a fan is one who only talks about the positive, I said a fan is someone who acknowledges the problems and flaws, but focuses on what makes something great.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"History is the version of past events that people have decided to agree upon." - Napolean Bonaparte
posted @ Thu, Mar 23, 2006 8:48:39 pm EST from 150.201.114.132

Lexington being gay comes from Greg Weisman himself. And I'm not even going to touch the "Will and Grace" stuff.

Jade Griffin > Sorry for your loss.

Matt > You seem to think being a good fan means giving unconditional adulation and never expressing anything but positive opinions. Sorry, but that's not how it works. Heck, in most cases, the really diehard fans are the ones MOST likely to speak their mind. Just follow the fans of any pro sports team, and see what happens when management starts making bonehead decisions. Or check out the "Star Trek" fandom, and see how many (like me) couldn't stand "Enterprise."

Jen > Ouch. Did your PC's DVD drive do that to the disk, or was it someone else in the house being careless?

92 days left until The Gathering 2006 in Valencia, California!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2006]
"It's four walls of madness in this house of cards." - Elton John
posted @ Thu, Mar 23, 2006 8:06:40 pm EST from 68.76.122.104

matt> Calm down a bit. Good and bad things have been said about the comic in here. Remember this is a small fandom so people will come in here to make their opinion. Alot of people in here are hard core gargoyle fans. So when They see something that doesnt resemble the show etc that happens.

No no no no no not the lex being gay issue agian. To much fighting. *L* Thought we talked about this for weeks last year. *LOL*

Ellen>Come to our booth at the gathering I had the first half of your comic printed out so we could give it to you as a gift for letting us use your story. Get it signed by Freeman ;-)

Christine morgan>We also have something for you for letting us use your story.

Crazy Demona /Jen- I Have some stuff to donate to the auction for the gathering. One thing includes a gargoyles castle play set.

Anyone who will be going to anime expo , anizona, comic con or any of thoughs cons. Help us support gargoyles and hand out stuff and talk about the dvd and comic etc and get people interested.
Shara - [jeanie54_2000@yahoo.com]
posted @ Thu, Mar 23, 2006 8:06:32 pm EST from 209.178.145.145

DL> Who said anything about Lex being gay with Brooklyn? Stormy didn't say that. No one said that.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Plato once said that for everything that exists, there is a perfect form of it somewhere. A perfect human being, a perfect chair, a perfect stick, so that everything is a shadow of that one perfect form. Now, if we follow that train of thought, that means that somewhere in the universe there exists the perfect form of the perfect absolute and complete idiot and he left here an hour ago." - Matthew Gideon
posted @ Thu, Mar 23, 2006 7:56:25 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

Stormy, I think that you are WRONG about lex being gay with Brooklyn, seriously, I know that one day they will find a mate so don't junp the gun about not being able to find a mate.
Jen, have you done anymore fan art? If so, please email them to me.
Ok, picture this, Maggie and Brooklyn are having a few cocktails, after there second, romantic music fills the air, Brooklyn throws a John Travolta pose and beckonds to Maggie. They dance for a while and then, It goes Will and Grace style. With Brooklyn as Will, Maggie as Grace, Angela as Karen, and Derek/ Talon as Jack! lol!
Demonic lover - [broad23way@yahoo.com]
posted @ Thu, Mar 23, 2006 7:52:25 pm EST from 205.188.117.68

JADE GRIFFIN - Count me as another person who's sorry to hear about your cat - especially since I went through the same thing a year and a half ago, and know how it feels. (The worst of it was when I was about to leave the apartment, began to say to him that I'd be back before long, and then remembered that he'd passed on.)
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Thu, Mar 23, 2006 7:08:56 pm EST from 4.244.18.236

Greg B> "I have some serious issues with your post." I guess what goes around comes around.

Listen. I know you are a fan. I know everyone (minus some trolls and spammers) in this Room is a fan. My problem was that many of you who are being exclusively negative to the comic are not coming off as fans to me. I don't come to this room to listen to people putting down Gargoyles. And that is my problem. Generally speaking, I have no problems with the art, but I understand that you and others do. I hope you can understand how frustrating it is to myself and others to see FANS putting down the comic before it even hits the shelf and without a word of praise. It was disheartening to me to say the least.

I mean, I'm reminded of the "Two Hudsons and a Bronx" scene of Kingdom. We all recognize that that is a MAJOR art flaw, but when we discuss Kingdom we have so many more positive things to say about the episode because we are fans! The comic art is not perfect, but no one should ever have expected it to be, the series certainly had animation issues. I have no problem with discussion of the art problems, but when 98% of the talk in the Comment Room is about what people hate about the comics, it kinda makes me feel like people are not acting like fans at all, but more like impartial observers.

Oh, and when I went home I retrieved all my old issues of the Marvel Gargoyles series and in comparison, the new comics look spectacular. In one frame of the Marvel comics, Lexington is gliding around missing a whole wing! What I'm trying to say is that the art could've been much worse, and I feel it will only get better.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"History is the version of past events that people have decided to agree upon." - Napolean Bonaparte
posted @ Thu, Mar 23, 2006 7:01:16 pm EST from 150.201.114.132

Jade Griffin: My condolences.

Lex Is Gay: Again, I wasn't there that year, but basically, Greg started thinking about who Lexington's life-mate would be and this is the conclusion he came to. Lex is still young in the series, young enough to chase after Angela or wave at the garg-gals in The Mirror because his brothers were, but quick to lose interest when Angela went for Broadway (unlike Brooklyn, who has the more normal reaction when the girl you like isn't interested in you--witness Maggie, Angela, etc.)
Stormy
posted @ Thu, Mar 23, 2006 5:18:14 pm EST from 142.167.199.201

GregB: I agree. I don't think there are "true fans" vs. I dunno, Fake fan?
Though there is varying degrees of fandom. For example there are those fans that are wholly dedicated to the show- go to the gatherings, advertise the products, ect. And there are those more casual fans. I think I fall somewhere in the middle.
(Kinda like the "trekkie vs. Trekker" thing, but less lame ;))

And BTW, graphic novels? I haven't heard anything about Gargoyles graphic novels! Please tell more.
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
Pimpin' my DA gallery
posted @ Thu, Mar 23, 2006 3:58:17 pm EST from 64.12.116.8

MATT> I have some serious issues with your post. The "True Fan" card is never justified. Never. You like "Gargoyles", you are a fan. Period. You don't have to like every aspect of it.

In 1996 and 1997, were you not a "true fan" if you didn't like Goliath Chronicles? No. You weren't.

There are people out there who seriously dislike the World Tour. Does that not make them "true fans"?

Right now, some of us don't like (even hate), the art samples we've seen. And you know what, we're allowed to say so. We love "Gargoyles" and we are buying this comic. We're not just fans... we're customers!

I love "Reservoir Dogs", "Pulp Fiction" and both parts of "Kill Bill"... am I a lesser fan of Quentin Tarantino because I don't like "Jackie Brown" at all?

And, everyone, and I mean everyone, whom I've heard critisize the art in the comic are HUGE fans of the series. HUGE! They're still going to buy the comic book. Multiple copies and the graphic novels... because we love "Gargoyles".

And we critisize because we care. The art has to match the writing! Greg is a master of story telling and character development.

But, right now I'm not critisizing the art... I am taking issue with you telling us we are being whiny and ungrateful. We are very grateful. We've spent the last decade working towards something like this.

And on another note... this "Fan Divide Bullshit" is just that... bullshit. Like Jen and I both said last week, it is human nature. Some people are going to be friends. Some are going to be acquantances. Some will never blip on each other's radar. And some will be as close as family.

And I've seen other fandoms, believe me, this is a very welcoming one.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Plato once said that for everything that exists, there is a perfect form of it somewhere. A perfect human being, a perfect chair, a perfect stick, so that everything is a shadow of that one perfect form. Now, if we follow that train of thought, that means that somewhere in the universe there exists the perfect form of the perfect absolute and complete idiot and he left here an hour ago." - Matthew Gideon
posted @ Thu, Mar 23, 2006 3:44:47 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

Guess what... through all the clever guilt trips, I still don't like the interior art. ::shrugs::

Terrible news! In ripping the Season One DVD's to my HD in order to make some Gargoyles Music Videos, I found that disk one of the set is... well... to say scratched is putting it lightly... more like... GOUGED! ... so I have to go buy it again. DOH!
Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson
"We lived innocently as children... but like all children, we grew up" -- The Magus
posted @ Thu, Mar 23, 2006 3:39:11 pm EST from 71.135.229.30

I'm Back! For a bit anyway... This week is turning into a crazy crazy week for poor ole Matt. On the up side, a doctor visit revealed that I needn't be worried about a problem I was having AND I finally got to use a phrase I've always wanted to say: "You'll be hearing from my attorney." Long story short, I (a gay man) am being accused of sexually harrassing a high school girl. *rolls eyes* This girl is nuts, and now that I have a lawyer on it, she's going to be exposed as a liar too. Anyway, just got back from St. Louis last night and have to go back there tomorrow! Spring break is turning into an interesting vacation...

In other news, I finally got through all this week's comments. I tend to agree with Whit on the "lesser fans" issue, but I won't expand on that since other have.
Also, big thanks to Winged Vampire for taking on the CR recap. I think you did a good job. And I had no time to do it this week, so I'm glad you took the initiative.

And by the way, playing the "true fan" card is very different from playing the "elitist fan" card. I suppose I did pull out the "true fan" card, but I felt, and still feel, I needed to say it. Perhaps, as others have suggested, if those who disliked the comic art had mentioned something they DID like, then others wouldn't have felt they were being ungrateful or whiney.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"History is the version of past events that people have decided to agree upon." - Napolean Bonaparte
posted @ Thu, Mar 23, 2006 1:07:34 pm EST from 150.201.114.132

Thanks for the condolences, gang:) It helps.

As for comic art, I have a brilliant idea for a comic myself. I'm an artist. But I have tried and failed to do panels/sequential art. So yes, it is extremely unique as an art form in my opinion. I could be a great character designer, or an awesome in-betweener, but comics? I have a loooong way to go...
Jade Griffin
Foooooooodd!!
posted @ Thu, Mar 23, 2006 9:37:19 am EST from 71.83.112.202

I'm being a bad lurker this week. But I popped by the comic store yesterday and saw the first issue of the comic solicited in the new Previews. So now is the time to bug your local purveyor of comics to order a copy. Assuming that they will order it anyway if you don't ask is probably not a good idea. As for the art, I think we're all just going to have to accept a few things. One is that it is going to look different from the show. It would be nice if it was a little closer to what we're used to, but again, this is a different artist working in a different medium. Secondly, I'm with the opinion that any constructive critique that may be sent to the artist should be held at least until issue one is out. Give the guy the benefit of a real chance to show what the final product looks like, Third, yes we do have a lot of very talented fan artists, but very few of them do sequential work (which IS a specific discipline which not every artist will automaticly be good at), as has been said. Plus, I'm not sure how many of them regularly work with deadlines, which is another big concern for comics. This is not to say anything against the fan artist community; I just don't think people should automaticly assume that one of them could do a better job based on stand alone drawings that may have taken weeks to complete.
Demonskrye
posted @ Thu, Mar 23, 2006 8:30:25 am EST from 209.6.250.47

WV: You're not the only one on a frenzy. Guess I should read links before I post. Anyway, I'm wondering just what trap this nameless person might have been referring to.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
posted @ Thu, Mar 23, 2006 6:54:17 am EST from 69.174.3.196

Quick technicial question: Does anyone know if Demona's goon from "Hunter's Moon, Part One" had a name (aside from Dolt, anyway)?
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"The access code is... ANTI-TACO-LEGISLATION-DISESTABLISHMENTARIANISM." -Dialogue from the alternate ending to "City of Stone."
posted @ Thu, Mar 23, 2006 6:36:00 am EST from 69.174.3.196

Demonic Lover > yup, thanks, been posting there for many a year now. I even just added my newest one (non-garg).
Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
posted @ Thu, Mar 23, 2006 1:56:47 am EST from 70.56.94.10

Jade Griffin -- My condolences.

Jen -- Yes, I've been reading the detailed updates Greg B has been kind enough to post. When I first saw that Crispin Freeman had been added to the guest list, I damn near fainted. XD

Stormy -- Great to see you around here.
Ellen
posted @ Thu, Mar 23, 2006 1:54:24 am EST from 152.163.100.14

I think I'm on a doublepost frenzy tonight.

I'm going to try and see if this can go off the paths of rehashing the comic book art and somehow saying I wish blah, blah, blah is an inappropriate thing to say here, hopefully starting something new.

I don't know if this has been hashed out yet, but I saw somewhere back that someone believes that shows that continue to thrive had a playing role in the cancellation of Gargoyles. I see the accusing finger being pointed more towards Power Rangers than any other direction. Here's what I think.

Power Rangers may have made history, being the longest running series probably since Scooby Doo. There's still a market for Power Rangers. I can't argue with that. IMO there would have still been a market for Gargoyles, too, if only that was allowed to run longer than it did. While Power Rangers won the race, I don't think it was responsible for the downfall of Gargoyles like some people believe.
The Winged Vampire - [The_Winged_Vampire@hotmail.com]
It's morphin' time!
posted @ Thu, Mar 23, 2006 12:34:04 am EST from 199.224.75.187

Quote: Kythera of Anevern-->TWV-- And what interesting reading that link is, too...<-- End Quote

The one thing I really find interesting is that the administration for that board calls him an ass pimple. I find it suiting. It catches my attention he brought up something about a gargoyle effer situation, which doesn't surprise me if he tried to make a similar prank there too.
The Winged Vampire - [The_Winged_Vampire@hotmail.com]
It's morphin' time!
posted @ Thu, Mar 23, 2006 12:18:53 am EST from 199.224.75.187

Well I think the art for the comic can most definetly be improved but all things start slow. It just takes some time to get better so I can be patient, but can you guys...mahahahaha.

Jade Griffin> Sorry for your loss, I know how you feel. I lost my dog not long ago and it took a while to get over

Who said it: IT'S PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME, PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME!"
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
"For me to poop on!" - Triumph the insult comic dog
posted @ Thu, Mar 23, 2006 12:13:14 am EST from 69.234.6.13

Addendum: Bah... that's an old post. Still funny, though.

Jen-- I think you're right. I think I'm going to hold off for a while (you know why), and, at worst, send a detailed blow-by-blow once the book is on shelves. I'm tempted to post a serious review of the sample pages in my firefox.org blog...
Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail.com]
"Live for glory, strength and fury; play your part in the greater scheme of life and nature" - Inkubus Sukkubus
posted @ Wed, Mar 22, 2006 11:39:12 pm EST from 24.126.11.109

Ellen - You do know that the American Voice Actor for Allucard and Keith David will both be at the Gathering, right? ... I think that cover needs some autographs on it. >:)

Kris - I've seen fan sequential art that will knock your socks off... I'm hoping it can be revealed soon too so I can prove it.

Kyt - I don't think Jennifer over at SLG really WANTED concrit. She jumped at people for AGREEING with her... so yeah ::shrugs:: Maybe you should write her a note and ask her?
Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson - [<---- 10th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"And so it begins, gargoyles, chapter two. Or is it three? I've lost count." -- Brooklyn
posted @ Wed, Mar 22, 2006 11:36:53 pm EST from 68.66.245.3

TWV-- And what interesting reading that link is, too...
Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail.com]
"Live for glory, strength and fury; play your part in the greater scheme of life and nature" - Inkubus Sukkubus
posted @ Wed, Mar 22, 2006 11:31:14 pm EST from 24.126.11.109

Just lost my cat today so I won't make anything big and drawn out, but wanted to say I saw the posted info and interview of Greg as far as the comic book goes, with the posted artwork up to page 7 and I must say it isn't that bad! I really really like pages 6 and 7! I can't wait to see the rest of it! I love seeing that script we did in Montreal come to life on the pages:) Wee, us!!
Jade Griffin
Foooooooodd!!
posted @ Wed, Mar 22, 2006 11:26:35 pm EST from 71.83.112.202

Oh, I see what happens. When you give a URL to something, it puts it on your SN. I guess you learn something new every day.
The Winged Vampire - [The_Winged_Vampire@hotmail.com]
It's morphin' time!
posted @ Wed, Mar 22, 2006 10:58:39 pm EST from 205.238.242.207

Quote: Stormy-->I believe it was during B M-A-G that the whole "Lexington is gay" revelation happened, but I wasn't there that year so I could be wrong.<--

What is the story behind that revelation? I found bits and pieces of it in Ask Greg and on other boards, and the asshat that used it to cause trouble a year ago made a reference to it late this past year on another board I lurk. (Look only if you're that curious. It's only fair to warn you, a good-size part of this board may be offensive.)

From Greg's input, he says it was not his decision. I did find that a lot of questions about the if's return "All things are possible" so I'm guessing it applies to this too.
The Winged Vampire - [The_Winged_Vampire@hotmail.com]
It's morphin' time!
posted @ Wed, Mar 22, 2006 10:24:00 pm EST from 205.238.242.207

What are we talking about exactly?

Jonny Modlin>>You're preaching to the choir/missionaries. But it's great to see the active campaign, but it would be better focused toward those ignorant of the DVDs.

Comic Artwork>>It needs work, definitely. But I'll give him 18 months before calling for the guy to be fired. Could some fandom artists do better? Absolutely! Can the artist improve? Yep. Let's give the guy a chance.

Gathering>>I'll say nothing more about any inability. But I will pledge that the minute I am able to go I'm there.

Whew! What happened to the times when we had one discussion a day? But it's better than our "fallback discussion" that is always joked around about ;)
Lord GargFan
The above statement is the honest and sincere opinion of Lord GargFan.
posted @ Wed, Mar 22, 2006 8:07:32 pm EST from 67.185.229.228

HEy! sry i haven't been posting lately. I got sooooooo caught in school it took away alot of my time. Christine, i love your fanfics! they are freakin awesome. Have you ever posted your stories on www.fanficrion.net? They take poems also (yay!). I am sooooooo not going to be able to go to the gathering in Valencia. I am going to be in Austria for all of June. In that case, Please , please ,please e-mail all of what happened to my address, broad232way@yahoo.com
Demonic lover
gotta go, the brownies are done
posted @ Wed, Mar 22, 2006 7:00:42 pm EST from 165.139.175.97

Kris -- No "Van," two L's. ;) The character in red on that cover is Alucard from the manga/anime "Hellsing" by Kohta Hirano. It's based on a crossover fan fic story I wrote. And even though I'm a writer, my skill with words deserts me when I try to express how thrilled I am with that cover, and with the fact that the folks at that site think highly enough of my story to want to make an online comic out of it.
Ellen
posted @ Wed, Mar 22, 2006 6:13:32 pm EST from 64.12.116.8

Shara said:
"Kris-haha its funny you say has there ever been a better fan made sequental work. Points at the gargoyle webcomic, which seems to have been over looked haha."

No I've seen it and...heh, was kinda just not wanting to have to mention it. Don't get me wrong, the art's okay and the one story so far was mildly amusing, well-constructed fluff (I know it's not trying to be serious or in-continuity, which is probably best), but when I said "I have yet to see any fan-made Gargoyle sequentials (full page comics) that're better than David Hedgecock's", I meant it. There could be some other fan-made sequentials out there that I haven't found yet, probably on Deviant Art and the like. Looking forward to seeing what else comes out of the fan-fiction comics though and I love that Goliath/Van Helsing cover.
Kris - [Ontario, Canada]
posted @ Wed, Mar 22, 2006 5:43:41 pm EST from 24.137.192.172

Angel: I've never met him, but from what I've heard from other people in the fandom who have, no one is more dedicated to the fans than Greg.

Your best bet for someday seeing Season Two, Volume Two is to buy the DVD of Volume One and notify anyone who you think might be interested about its existence.

Battle Beast: If you're referring to the Box Set I think you are (and I've provided the link), everything I've read about it says that it's the Special Edition. Lucas himself has said that he never plans to release the ORIGINAL originals on DVD because the Special Editions are supposedly the way he always wanted to make them.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"The access code is... ANTI-TACO-LEGISLATION-DISESTABLISHMENTARIANISM." -Dialogue from the alternate ending to "City of Stone."
posted @ Wed, Mar 22, 2006 4:45:53 pm EST from 69.174.3.196

ANGEL> <<I sincerely hope Greg thinks about the next generation and less on the money before he pulls the plug on volume 2 of season 2.>>

You are aware that business executives decide whether or not the next DVD comes out and not Greg Weisman, I hope.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Plato once said that for everything that exists, there is a perfect form of it somewhere. A perfect human being, a perfect chair, a perfect stick, so that everything is a shadow of that one perfect form. Now, if we follow that train of thought, that means that somewhere in the universe there exists the perfect form of the perfect absolute and complete idiot and he left here an hour ago." - Matthew Gidion
posted @ Wed, Mar 22, 2006 4:23:49 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

I really am uset at the possibility of not recieving Season 2 Volume 2 if the first volume doesn't sell more copies. I don't think it is fair to all the dedicated fans to be denied the rest of that season. Others and I have spent alot of money buying these dvds and I would like to get a finished product. My kids are even interested in the series now. I sincerely hope Greg thinks about the next generation and less on the money before he pulls the plug on volume 2 of season 2.
Angel - [Dragondreamer178@yahoo.com]
posted @ Wed, Mar 22, 2006 4:18:38 pm EST from 69.129.138.254

Ah ok, thanks Stormy
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
Pimpin' my DA gallery
posted @ Wed, Mar 22, 2006 1:05:44 pm EST from 152.163.100.14

Kris-haha its funny you say has there ever been a better fan made sequental work. Points at the gargoyle webcomic, which seems to have been over looked haha.
Shara - [Jeanie54_2000@yahoo.com]
The Gargoyle Webcomic opens finally
posted @ Wed, Mar 22, 2006 1:05:28 pm EST from 209.178.145.42

Purplegoldfish: Blue Mug-a-Guest is like Mug-a-Guest, where you get to ask the Guests (like Greg) different questions. The difference being, in regular Mug-a-Guest you've got to keep the topic of conversation PG-13 rated or lower, whereas in Blue Mug-a-Guest, the questions can be as R or X rated as you like. It's held later in the evening usually, in a private room, so the audience is appropriate.

I believe it was during B M-A-G that the whole "Lexington is gay" revelation happened, but I wasn't there that year so I could be wrong.
Stormy
posted @ Wed, Mar 22, 2006 8:48:12 am EST from 142.167.208.101

Quote: Greg Bishansky-->JONNY MODLIN> Who exactly are you talking to?<--End Quote

I was thinking the same thing. I can't tell if heis talking to someone or if he is trying to encourage us to buy the DVD.
The Winged Vampire - [The_Winged_Vampire@hotmail.com]
It's morphin' time!
posted @ Wed, Mar 22, 2006 2:25:40 am EST from 205.238.242.124

Patrick> Yes, I'm well aware that Dan still does Homer's voice - *HE* changed the way it comes out of his mouth. MOre whiney and aweful. But I did know that.

Harvester of Eyes> Really??? I was told it was the Original trilogy.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Wed, Mar 22, 2006 12:52:57 am EST from 198.53.28.99

Kris-- Funny you mention passing concrit off to the artist, himself. I left a comment in the SLG News LiveJournal post about the Gargs comic asking WHERE I should post said constructive criticism, and have yet to get a reply from the editor in chief. (She passed quite a few replies back and forth between Greg B. and CrzyDemona, so I don't think it's inactivity or inattentiveness to the journal.)

I don't want to draw too many conclusions from *that,* but it DOES make me raise an eyebrow, and that someone offering genuine constructive criticism is being pointedly ignored.
Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail.com]
"Live for glory, strength and fury; play your part in the greater scheme of life and nature" - Inkubus Sukkubus
posted @ Tue, Mar 21, 2006 10:58:47 pm EST from 24.126.11.109

Just read up on last week's comment room...

To those who keep saying that they've been spoiled by seeing better Gargoyles art from fans online (and I agree there--there's been some beautiful stuff I've happened on in the past three years), I've gotta ask--has there ever been better fan-made SEQUENTIAL work ? Most of you are probably imagining full-page, and most likely posed, drawings/paintings/renderings when you mention the quality of some fan-made works. I have yet to see any fan-made Gargoyle sequentials (full page comics) that're better than David Hedgecock's though, so the comparison seems a bit uneven or faulty or some damn thing...

Re: Not liking David Hedgecock's art

Kyt mentioned that if you don't give constructive criticism about work that you think is substandard, chances are that it will REMAIN that way. In addition to complaining about it in here, wouldn't it then also be a good idea to get a hold of the penciler's e-mail address and send him some notes? It would be diplomatic for his harshest critics to reassure him that they love Gargoyles and will be picking up a copy (or multiple copies) of the comic regardless, maybe even mention what bits of his art they LIKED (if any) before launching into the negatives.

I've got some stuff I'd like to mention to him, but I think I'll wait until June (then again, the sooner you let him know about your concerns, the sooner you may see positive changes if he takes any of your comments to heart). So, David Hedgecock e-mail, anyone?

Greg B, you're wrong, Matt played the "true fan" card, said that term at least twice in one post from what I remember of the CR posts from last week (not trying to pick on you Matt, just using that post to attempt to make a point...and er, yeah, I guess the following is more directed at you than anyone else). Hopefully won't hear the term "true fans" in here again--there's no such thing. If I hadn't thought of Gargoyles since it originally went off the air and only came back to it yesterday upon finding out about the DVDs, I wouldn't be any less of a fan than the rest of you. It's wannabe-elitist fanboy bullshit and it does no one any good to throw the term around. Different people can look at a piece of entertainment and appreciate completely different aspects of it, then go on to have different priorities of what they expect in the future from it. If the interior art of the Gargoyles comic bothers some fans, let 'em vent about it. It's healthy, it obviously provokes some worthwhile discussions, and the exchange of ideas lets us know where everyone stands on what they're hoping to get out of this project. Don't tell them to keep quiet though, or keep a positive attitude (that'll come when they feel their praise is deserved). If anyone's worried that several negative comments about the comic in the Station 8 comment room is gonna lose us tonnes of sales before the comic's even released, calm down, quit being paranoid, I doubt there're THAT many [potential] comic book consumers reading this regularly aside from ourselves and a bunch of lurkers. Station 8 CR comments aren't gonna decide whether the comic continues or is cancelled.

Re: fan divide

Not feeling it here, never have, though this comment room is about the extent of my Gargoyles fandom participation, aside from talking it up at other message boards I visit. The only thing I ever get a sense out of, and this is neither good nor bad, just a fact--some fans are more knowledgable. A LOT of fans are more knowledgable, actually. About the show itself, about Ask Greg info, the history and development of the show as a product and of the fandom. If someone's super-sensitive or whatever though, I can see how one might interpret that as elitist. And folks can lose their patience sometimes when having to explain oft-repeated info to newbies, it's gonna happen. I appreciate that there're Garg fans who know way more than I do about the property though, first of all just 'cause it's cool that there're longtime viewers who were able to stick around this long and learn all they could about Gargoyles, but also 'cause they're easy reference material when we just can't find something by way of the Ask Greg search engine. Or we're too lazy to look it up for ourselves or don't know how. ;)
Kris - [Ontario, Canada]
posted @ Tue, Mar 21, 2006 10:47:10 pm EST from 24.137.192.172

HoE > I'm not tech-savvy, but I'll chime in.

When I updated my DVD player I looked for a region free model. I ended up with a Pioneer DV-266, that was over 18 months ago and I haven't had a problem with it. Well priced and asy as pie to use too.
Chameleongirl - [<-- Come to the Gathering!]
Chameleon may change her spots, but she refuses to do plaid
posted @ Tue, Mar 21, 2006 10:34:21 pm EST from 202.87.162.31

Patrick: I guess I should lay off the bright ideas and go back to spotting grammatical errors for other people.

Greg B: Did you HAVE to paste the entire quote? I'll concede that Carnage was much cooler, but that's all I'll concede to. That, and also it was rather douche-bagish of McFarlane, that thing he did. And maybe Jonny's talking to the guy who doesn't post here.


But he has reminded me that I have to look into trading my cheap North American DVD player for a Region Free model so's I can finally watch my DVD of "Threads" and scare myself straight (as well as continue to order DVDs from our peace-loving neighbors across the Atlantic). So does anyone with more technical savvy than me recommend any brands?
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"The access code is... ANTI-TACO-LEGISLATION-DISESTABLISHMENTARIANISM." -Dialogue from the alternate ending to "City of Stone."
posted @ Tue, Mar 21, 2006 9:41:04 pm EST from 69.174.3.196

JEN> LOL, I suck ;)

I typo Pluto instead of Plato, and now this... I am having an off day.

I shall heed your advice, and consume mass quantities of caffine. Hmm, I just bought a new case of Diet Cherry Coke.

;)
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Plato once said that for everything that exists, there is a perfect form of it somewhere. A perfect human being, a perfect chair, a perfect stick, so that everything is a shadow of that one perfect form. Now, if we follow that train of thought, that means that somewhere in the universe there exists the perfect form of the perfect absolute and complete idiot and he left here an hour ago." - Matthew Gidion
posted @ Tue, Mar 21, 2006 8:08:17 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

Bishansky - You preach The Gospel. You can preach it to the choir/converted, but chances are, they already know about it. Preaching to the Gospel is a bit like talking to oneself I should think. ;)

The lesson here is... don't post without caffine in your system. HA!
Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson - [<---- click here to see]
"And so it begins, gargoyles, chapter two. Or is it three? I've lost count." -- Brooklyn
posted @ Tue, Mar 21, 2006 8:02:28 pm EST from 68.66.245.3

TODD> That was a typo. Sorry.

JONNY MODLIN> Who exactly are you talking to?
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Plato once said that for everything that exists, there is a perfect form of it somewhere. A perfect human being, a perfect chair, a perfect stick, so that everything is a shadow of that one perfect form. Now, if we follow that train of thought, that means that somewhere in the universe there exists the perfect form of the perfect absolute and complete idiot and he left here an hour ago." - Matthew Gidion
posted @ Tue, Mar 21, 2006 7:56:13 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

Matt was there for me this past weekend to help get something off my chest, so I thought it was only fair to return the favor. I think it's neat that he gives a brief summary of each week in the past three years. It's great to know what happened before, since I wasn't here to experience it firsthand.
The Winged Vampire - [The_Winged_Vampire@hotmail.com]
It's morphin' time!
posted @ Tue, Mar 21, 2006 7:49:41 pm EST from 216.37.154.53

Winged_vampire: Thanks for upholding the comment room tradition for matt- see I noticed ;)

I enjoy reading the con reports from 2004 in the ASK GREG archives. Especially that one since it's the one that's featured on the DVD. I can actually put some names to faces lol. It really looks like a fun time.

What exactly is Blue-Mug a Guest? I'm curious.
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
Pimpin' my DA gallery
posted @ Tue, Mar 21, 2006 7:34:21 pm EST from 64.12.116.8

I am very happy that I recieved the new replacement discs of Gargoyles Season Two, Volume One on DVD of DISC 2 AND DISC 3 from Walt Disney Home Entertainment Consumer Relations in February and March. I will try to watch Gargoyles Season One and Season Two, Volume One on DVD on my portable DVD/CD Player 9" hopefully end of March to the beginning of April. Thank you.
Jonny
Jonny Modlin - [mmodlin@optonline.net]
Jonathan Modlin
posted @ Tue, Mar 21, 2006 7:29:02 pm EST from 24.44.53.156

BISHANSKY - Re your signature quote - shouldn't that be Plato rather than Pluto? At least, that philosophical statement sounds more like Plato than either the god of the underworld or Mickey Mouse's dog.
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Tue, Mar 21, 2006 7:23:08 pm EST from 4.245.19.127

I wouldn't be so quick to draw parallels between comic books and comedic animation. In a comic book, all you have is the written story and the artwork to hook your audience, so both of them need to stand out from the get-go. In animation, you have vocals and music and the ability to do a lot more visually on the television screen than you can do in static panels on paper. A show that's funny and edgy can do well even if the artwork alone isn't well polished. "The Simpsons" started out on a very low budget, and it showed in the quality of the art. Once it became popular, the art improved dramatically because the budget was there to invest more time in it.
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2006]
"Now let's go back to that building thingy... where our beds and TV... is." - Homer Simpson
posted @ Tue, Mar 21, 2006 7:22:29 pm EST from 70.227.79.147

Quote: Greg Bishansky-->WINGED VAMPIRE> I had to explain this a few weeks ago. Here's my re-post.

"I boycott McFarlane simply because I think he's a hypocritical asshole. He left Marvel to start Image going on and on about creator's rights and how Marvel sucked in that category. Very well and good. I respect that.

And then, he turns around and does the exact same thing to Neil Gaiman. Todd invited Neil to write a couple issues of Spawn, where Neil created the characters of Angela, Medeval Spawn, and a few more... Todd told Neil that Neil would have full control, and would be the one to profit from those characters. Creator's Rights and all.

What happens next? Todd stabs Neil in the back. Rakes in cash off of merchandise and comics those characters are in. Neil takes Todd to court and wins big. To this date, Todd has not apologised or acknowledged wrong doing.

Oh, and Venom sucks."

So, see, the man is a liar, and a crook.<--End Quote

I normally don't hear about or come across things like this, which unfortunately keeps me out of the loop.
The Winged Vampire - [The_Winged_Vampire@hotmail.com]
It's morphin' time!
posted @ Tue, Mar 21, 2006 7:04:51 pm EST from 209.74.41.61

JONNY> Um, you are aware that you're preaching to the gospel, aren't you.

Everyone here HAS bought copies of the DVD. Some of us have bought several copies.

What you need to do is go to places where the majority haven't bought the DVD, and ask them.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Pluto once said that for everything that exists, there is a perfect form of it somewhere. A perfect human being, a perfect chair, a perfect stick, so that everything is a shadow of that one perfect form. Now, if we follow that train of thought, that means that somewhere in the universe there exists the perfect form of the perfect absolute and complete idiot and he left here an hour ago." - Matthew Gidion
posted @ Tue, Mar 21, 2006 7:01:40 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

Matt's not going to be able to do the Tuesday recap as he's been doing. If it sucks, sorry, I'm not Matt, but someone's got to do it.

PREVIOUSLY, IN THE GARGOYLES COMMENT ROOM...

2003, Three years ago this week...
Demona Taina is 1st.
Happy St. Patricks Day! Discussions begin on Tuesday, setting a dark and gloomy mood for the week after beginning talk about watching episodes recorded on tape. Some mention how long it has been since the last time they have seen an episode of Gargoyles. Some feel that the fandom is dying. Other discussion includes when folks saw their first episode of gargoyles. Overall, a rather dark week.
Quote: "And as long as there are reruns, there will be new fans." -Leva

2004, Two years ago this week...
Battle Beast is 1st.
This is a busy week. The counting game goes farther than it normally does. Discussions actually begin on Tuesday, beginning with G2198 and Dark Ages and what audience base it would attract or have an effect on in comparison to that of the original series, in regard to medieval and sci-fi themes. Discussion about these and other spin-offs continue throughout the week. St. Patrick's Day on Wednesday. Folks give a list on their preference for which spin-offs they would like to see come out and their reasons for them. Some discussion continues from last week about Gargoyles airing on ABC Family.
Quote: "Today we celebrate the fellow who had the forethought to expel the snakes from Ireland, thereby keeping the island free forever of Steve Irwin. So have a happy St. Patrick's Day!" -Patrick

2005, One year ago this week...
Matt is 1st.
A slightly busy week. Discussion continues from last week about the Disney CEO. We run into various other topics such as the Manhattan clan making it's way into the next Kingdom Hearts game, the Guardians of Luna, Ninja Turtles being off limits, comparable violence in both Gargoyles and TMNT as well as other elements in Gargoyles being comparable with those in other shows, and a small topic on cosplaying. Happy Easter!
Quote: "I believe that Iger is just going to be a "puppet-CEO" for Eisner.

"I'm not a puppet, I'm a real CEO."
Nose grows.

Only when Eisner's six feet under or in a vegetative state. -Lord GargFan
The Winged Vampire - [The_Winged_Vampire@hotmail.com]
It's morphin' time!
posted @ Tue, Mar 21, 2006 7:00:10 pm EST from 209.74.41.61

Could you please buy Gargoyles Season Two, Volume One on DVD at Amazon.com because it is a popular show. Thank you
Jonny Modlin - [mmodlin@optonline.net]
Jonathan Modlin
posted @ Tue, Mar 21, 2006 6:55:27 pm EST from 24.44.53.156

Patrick: Thank you! You've helped me to form a useful parallel. For anyone who had doubts about the artwork in the Gargoyles comic, look at Season One of the Simpsons, and then look at the way the show looks today. There's bound to be some shakiness at first, but things do get better with time!

Battle Beast: To my knowledge, the DVD set in question is still the Special Editions, just without the bonus disc.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
WWJBD - What would Jack Bauer do?
posted @ Tue, Mar 21, 2006 5:54:49 pm EST from 69.174.3.196

WINGED VAMPIRE> I had to explain this a few weeks ago. Here's my re-post.

"I boycott McFarlane simply because I think he's a hypocritical asshole. He left Marvel to start Image going on and on about creator's rights and how Marvel sucked in that category. Very well and good. I respect that.

And then, he turns around and does the exact same thing to Neil Gaiman. Todd invited Neil to write a couple issues of Spawn, where Neil created the characters of Angela, Medeval Spawn, and a few more... Todd told Neil that Neil would have full control, and would be the one to profit from those characters. Creator's Rights and all.

What happens next? Todd stabs Neil in the back. Rakes in cash off of merchandise and comics those characters are in. Neil takes Todd to court and wins big. To this date, Todd has not apologised or acknowledged wrong doing.

Oh, and Venom sucks."

So, see, the man is a liar, and a crook.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Tue, Mar 21, 2006 5:43:47 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

Quote: Greg Bishansky-->If Todd McFarlane made new Gargoyles figures. I'm sorry, I would not buy them. I love Gargoyles. But I refuse to support a thief and a crook.<--End Quote

I'm not sure where you're coming from.

Quote: Demonskrye-->Winged Vampire> I'm guessing you didn't pick up McFarlane's Corpse Bride figures then. I immediately broke the arm off of my Emily just by trying to move the joint. And I know from the various toy websites that I'm not alone in this. McFarlane has some of the worst quality control in the toy industry, and even aside from that, their products are kind of hit or miss. I have a couple of the Dragons figures, which I generally like, but of lot of their stuff is either really grotesque or just very poorly done. I worry that any Gargoyles figures would look more like the upcoming Simpsons dioramas, which are pretty ugly. Plus, McFarlane toys does not make action figures for the most part. They make little plastic statues with maybe one or two points of articulation. If you want a statue of an overdetailed Goliath to sit on your desk, than yeah, McFarlane might be a good pick. If you want something that's posable and accurate to the show or comic designs, I'd go with a company that has a better track record with well articulated good looking figures, like Mezco or SOTA.<--End Quote

I haven't seen the movie yet, so I have ad no interest in getting those. I have seen the dragon ones. I'd like to get some of those, but since the beginning of this year I haven't really had the kind of dough even to do something like that. Some of the other stuff I have seen is a little on the ugly side, depicting beheadings or maiming or other forms of gore. I'm not a big fan of such displays and I hardly know anyone who is. An overdetailed Goliath may be a little on the ugly side, assuming you mean that if McFarlane made it more ripped and comparably ugly compared to the original model, but that is nothing but a big if, so we don't really know any of that for sure.
The Winged Vampire - [The_Winged_Vampire@hotmail.com]
It's morphin' time!
posted @ Tue, Mar 21, 2006 5:33:29 pm EST from 209.74.41.61

Dan Castellaneta has always been the voice of Homer Simpson. No one new has taken over the role. The main characters all still have their orginal voices, but all voices change with time. There's a very noticable different between the voices of first season Homer and present season Homer. But it's still the same actor.

94 days left until The Gathering 2006 in Valencia, California!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2006]
"Is there an Al there? Last name, Caholic?" - Bart Simpson calling Moe's Tavern
posted @ Tue, Mar 21, 2006 5:17:17 pm EST from 70.227.79.147

Harvester of Eyes> The simpsons STANK after season 10 when they changed Homers voice, he got stupider, and the incomprable Mr. Phill Hartman passed on. But, I'kll say this, it has gotten better since season 15.

Harvester of Eyes> Lucas released the origianl trilogy, sans "upgrades," in a three disc set with out bonus features.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Tue, Mar 21, 2006 4:50:42 pm EST from 198.53.28.99

Greg B: As I said before, I don't know enough about Todd McFarlane to make those kinds of calls, but I see where you're coming from. The fact that George Lucas is a pompous revisionist is preventing me from ever buying the Original Trilogy DVDs.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
posted @ Tue, Mar 21, 2006 4:37:28 pm EST from 69.174.3.196

I've got the MacKenzie Brothers display. It's held up for over four years now. And I haven't watched the Simpsons in a while (hell, I probably won't buy the DVDs after Season 10), so I have no idea what series of figure they're up to now.

Personally, I think models would be pretty nice, myself. I had a bunch of Jurassic Park ones ten years ago, but I think they were lost during one of our moves.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
WWJBD - What would Jack Bauer do?
posted @ Tue, Mar 21, 2006 4:34:54 pm EST from 69.174.3.196

Winged Vampire> I'm guessing you didn't pick up McFarlane's Corpse Bride figures then. I immediately broke the arm off of my Emily just by trying to move the joint. And I know from the various toy websites that I'm not alone in this. McFarlane has some of the worst quality control in the toy industry, and even aside from that, their products are kind of hit or miss. I have a couple of the Dragons figures, which I generally like, but of lot of their stuff is either really grotesque or just very poorly done. I worry that any Gargoyles figures would look more like the upcoming Simpsons dioramas, which are pretty ugly. Plus, McFarlane toys does not make action figures for the most part. They make little plastic statues with maybe one or two points of articulation. If you want a statue of an overdetailed Goliath to sit on your desk, than yeah, McFarlane might be a good pick. If you want something that's posable and accurate to the show or comic designs, I'd go with a company that has a better track record with well articulated good looking figures, like Mezco or SOTA.

::goes back to lurking::
Demonskrye
posted @ Tue, Mar 21, 2006 2:40:15 pm EST from 209.6.250.47

If Todd McFarlane made new Gargoyles figures. I'm sorry, I would not buy them. I love Gargoyles. But I refuse to support a thief and a crook.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Tue, Mar 21, 2006 2:01:36 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

Quote: Harvester of Eyes-->I also wouldn't mind seeing some better action figures, ones that follow detail a bit better.<--End Quote

Amen to that. You'll find that alot when the characters look different from how they do in comic books or on TV, or in video games for that matter. One of the things that we were discussing once when I used to go to the Nosgoth.net forum anyway just prior to the official release of the Lt. Raziel figure, one thing in particular was how much more it looks like Michael Jackson and how much more ripped this figure is compared to how this character looked in the game. When figures were made for Power Rangers, even they looked different. What it all seems to me is that rather than paying attention to detail and quality,the motive almost always seems to be to get the product finished and ready for the growing fanbase of that particular theme, which only yields a shoddy product in the end. The Gargoyles figures suffered from this very same thing, such as for example, the no-neck Brooklyn and the design of the Lexington figure. I think a 4-year-old could have designed those better. Power wing Goliath? Only looks better than it really is. It may lack in proper detail, but it's structural integrity is even worse. Not so much for how easy it is for the wings to get soiled, but for how quickly the mechanism deteriorated, at least for me anyway. I've gone through four of the bloody things to date. Another peeve of mine is the Ultimate Goliath figure. If the wings fall out and you try to put them back in, there's this snap and it's done. It might as well all go for junk for what it's worth.

If anyone should make the new figures it would have to be Todd McFarlane. Reason being I have yet to get something of his that is junk.
The Winged Vampire - [The_Winged_Vampire@hotmail.com]
It's morphin' time!
posted @ Tue, Mar 21, 2006 1:21:49 pm EST from 199.224.75.201

Wow, wish I could go to The Gathering (too bad I already promised to attend Anime Boston with my friends, been saving up money for it all year). I would LOVE to see the cosplayers dressed up as gargoyles, just to see how many of them truly resemble the gargoyles to a T (especially Demona cosplayers, mmmmm, lol). Plus actually meeting the voice actors would be a blast. I don't know about meeting roleplay partners in real life though, never know who are talking to online these days (I'm too paranoid).
Dragomir
"Don't hate me because I'm devious," Demona cues as she strikes an enticing pose for the audience, evoking jealous glares from the other contestants
posted @ Tue, Mar 21, 2006 12:58:25 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

Christine: that makes things a lot clearer. I certainly have no bitch against how the convention is being run this year (after all, if California is really out of my way, Montreal was really in my back yard, so those things even out). I've long been a believer in doing something about stuff one doesn't like, rather than whining but doing nothing to change it. And I have no time to whine--I have a short story to edit and some art to colour.

Cliques: It's natural for people to want to hang out with other people that they know. I know when I went to Botcon 2002, I got there early and I had a hard time starting conversations with people until the folks I knew from roleplaying games showed up. Once they arrived, it was instant blast all weekend... My friend had a dealer table, and she said she talked to a lot of people she didn't know and had conversations with them over her table. However, in her spare time, she was hanging out with the rest of us that she roleplayed with.

I think there's a difference between maliciously making newbies unwelcome, and simply preferring to hang with your friends you only see once a year.

Now, I don't think that gives people an excuse to ONLY talk to people they already know...as mentioned below, a welcoming fandom will be willing to say hi to a new face and give her/him a hand. It IS hard to be standing in a room full of people who already know one another and feeling totally overlooked, even if no one's doing it to be nasty.
Stormy
posted @ Tue, Mar 21, 2006 9:19:41 am EST from 142.167.200.207

Winged Vampire: I'll hold you to that cigar. ( ;

I also wouldn't mind seeing some better action figures, ones that follow detail a bit better.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
WWJBD - What would Jack Bauer do?
posted @ Tue, Mar 21, 2006 6:58:37 am EST from 69.174.3.196

Chameleongirl-- ...I still need to figure my taxes, but I may have about half of that socked away, already... o.O
Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail.com]
"Live for glory, strength and fury; play your part in the greater scheme of life and nature" - Inkubus Sukkubus
posted @ Tue, Mar 21, 2006 2:12:21 am EST from 24.126.11.109

Hehe. My inability to go this year is made up of genuine 100% lack-of-money.

Though if anyone has around $2000 they can throw my way, I'll be more than glad to come :D

Hmmm .. maybe I should have put up a pay-pal begging button .... ;P
Chameleongirl - [<-- Come to the Gathering!]
Chameleon may change her spots, but she refuses to do plaid
posted @ Tue, Mar 21, 2006 2:06:40 am EST from 202.87.162.31

It's not the people who for whatever reason can't make it THIS year. I've had years like that myself. Whether it's money, whether it's work, whether it's family, whether it's personal stuff.

It's the cumulative effect of so many people who do the "maybe next year" thing year after year after year that gets to me. So I'm not trying to single out, attack or pick on any one person who can't make it this year.

But there does seem to be sort of a prevailing, prevalent mindset that the Gathering is an entity controlled by some omnipotent THEM who are total meanies that won't hold the con at a time and place convenient to ME, and so instead of stepping up to the plate and volunteering to DO something about it, I'm just gonna WHINE.

To the mindset of this old grump, one's fan-love shouldn't be measured in money. All fans are not financially equal. We're each going to do what we can within our means to support the show, be that by attending the cons, buying the goodies, what have you. Nor should one's fan-love be measured in artistic talent or writing ability, because we're not all created equal in that regard.

In fact, one's fan-love shouldn't be measured at all, or rated, or stacked up against other people. Think you're a fan? Consider yourself a fan? Self-identify as a fan? Bingo. You're a fan.

My peeve is the same as the one I have about politics. You want the right to complain about the way things are done? Then you need to find some way to participate and contribute. SOME way, any way. Just don't sit around and do nothing and then bitch about the people who DO. You want to bitch? Fine. But if you don't do anything else, please don't expect a whole lotta sympathy.

This episode of Christine's Soapbox brought to you by pure, distilled, 100% impatience, frustration and fed-upped-ness. We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.
Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
posted @ Tue, Mar 21, 2006 12:03:05 am EST from 71.112.172.65

Whitborne>Here is my 2 cents. And they are made of choclate. Yummmmy!!!

Anways. I came into this fandom feeling that way that no one realy would like me etc.....
I went to the gathering in vegas myself only. I was scared to death of being in a strange place away from my home and driving 4 hours to get there.
When I got to the gathering I had these boxes I needed to carry up to the dealers room. I was struggling and someone who didnt even know me who was a part of the gathering grabbed the boxes for me and helped me find my way. Then I was greated by many others and met hudson whom I really enjoy talking to and molesting:P
Then I sat in the dealers room most of the time and I met so many new people. I know I will only see them once a year but I never would have met the majority of these people if I had not gone to the gathering.

There was a big feeling of warmth after the masqurade when we all sat around joking with greg weisman and Tom. I would say compared to anime expo comic con any of thoughs conventions this one had a feeling of family. It even topped small anime cons where people where having strange room parties haha. The gathering people know how to party but they do it discreatly or in a orderly fashion haha. But I had so much fun .

Point anyways. I belive that the clicks or groups are more when people are online. When your at the gathering none of that happens.
shara - [<---------Gargoyle Webcomic]
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 11:55:57 pm EST from 4.246.209.146

Whoa... echo.

Cool.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 11:35:33 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

WHIT> I don't think it's what you think. This fandom is very welcoming, especially compared to most others.

As for any divides. I don't see it as a divide so much as some people are really good friends and only get to see each other once a year, so of course they want to make up for lost time. This fandom has been good to me, I made some great friends, a few closer than family even. Hell, even one I would say I trust with my life.

We don't shun new people, we welcome them at the cons, I know I and a several others do. Sometimes people bond, sometimes they don't. It's not a clique mentality, it's human nature. But with all the great folks at the Gathering and in the fandom, everyone will find their pals.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 11:34:28 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

Whit - What you are observing is natural human nature. You can call it 'cliques' all you want, but all humans do it. You will talk to, hang out with, becomes close to people who share the same personalities/interests/styles as you do. You just can't FORCE an entire fandom to LIKE each other all the time. You can't keep people from flocking to others that understand them.

There are people in this fandom that I like a lot, but don't really spend a lot of time with. There are people in this fandom that I don't like at all and will never spend time with. There are people in this fandom that are my family. You will never separate them from me. We are all a part of each other. ... they are my clan.

All the complaining in the world won't change these things.
Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson
"You can only compell someone act against their nature for so long." -- Luna
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 11:30:30 pm EST from 66.174.93.102

I'd love to go to California, if there wasn't an exam and if I hadn't already committed my money to a trip to Brussels to further my career. And I do understand the frustration coming from con staff about people not being able to make it, but I think that there's a lot less thoughtless "oh, well, maybe next year" than is thought.

And all I can really say is what I've noticed. For the past couple of years, there has definitely been an "in-crowd" and "out-crowd" divide in the fandom, and while it's not mean-spirited or callous, it's definitely there. The last Gathering I went to, in Montreal in 2004, had very much that sense, the more that I think back on it. But it's not just the Gathering, and I'm a little dismayed that this has become a conversation entirely about people attending an annual convention.

It's more than that, and I believe that the whole Gathering kerfluffle is a symptom of something a little larger, the fact that there seems to be this divide of people between the cadre of those who've been here longer, and those who are viewed as "outside" of this clique. It's apparent in comment rooms and chat rooms and discussions beyond the Gathering.

Is it a bad thing? I don't know. I'm just saying that it's a little discouraging at times.
Whitbourne
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 11:05:02 pm EST from 156.34.178.163

I've noticed Matt is doing the weekly recap every Tuesday. Is he going to do it when he gets back, or should someone else do it for him if he isn't back tomorrow?

I thought since he's doing this project that it would make sense if one of us continues the tradition in times when he is unable to.
The Winged Vampire - [The_Winged_Vampire@hotmail.com]
It's morphin' time!
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 10:59:09 pm EST from 216.37.154.53

Quote: Harvester of Eyes-->Winged Vampire: What do you mean by Gargoyles-related items? Are you referring to merchandise? Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing some T-Shirts. I'm something of a collector of those, and as far as Gargoyles are concerned, I've had to make my own.<--End Quote

I'd give you a cigar if I had one. But yeah, that's what I mean.
The Winged Vampire - [The_Winged_Vampire@hotmail.com]
It's morphin' time!
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 10:53:41 pm EST from 216.37.154.53

Christine, you rule.

95 days left until The Gathering 2006 in Valencia, California!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2006]
"Clothes make the man. Naked people have little to no influence on society." - Mark Twain
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 10:34:33 pm EST from 70.227.79.147

::Joins in the makeout session!::

Christine, you are made of awesome. Just like Jon Stewart.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 10:05:03 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

I guess in my personal case, I mentioned my inability to come to the Gathering this year because in a way, I feel disappointed in my own inability to afford it, and in a way, I feel as though I'm letting people down (like the organizers who've put so much work into it, the friends I won't be able to meet up with, my own knowledge that I'm missing out on a good time, etc).

The best I can do is participate in the fic and art contests, which I'm doing, and I must say, I'm having fun with.

But while it hurts the organizers to have people say "maybe next year" for ten years running, it also hurts those of us who want to go and cannot, for whatever reason.
Stormy
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 10:04:25 pm EST from 142.167.220.106

Christine - Now I must kiss you... WITH TONGUE! ::makes slurpy gurgly noises::
Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson
I like my women like I like my coffee... in a plastic cup! -- Eddie Izzard
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 10:03:55 pm EST from 66.174.93.104

In an effort to focus on the positive here ...

Yay! Registrations sent in! Stories finished!

As for the rest, speaking as an old grump here (with a birthday looming, I FEEL like an old grump), I just wanted to say that as someone who's been on a couple of Gathering staffs and peripherally involved with a few others, please, everyone, try to understand that when one spends months on end working one's ass off and stressing one's ass off to try and put on a decent con, it does get a wee bit frustrating to encounter any variation of the "gee, that sounds cool, maybe next year."

Yes, cool, great, maybe next year. If there IS one next year.

But when there are some who've been saying that for TEN YEARS NOW ...?

So the frustration isn't aimed nearly so much at the newer folks. Love the newer folks! Need the newer folks!

But each time that "maybe next year" is expressed, it's a poke at a tender spot no matter who expresses it, even when the sore spot itself is much more likely to have been caused by those TEN YEARS NOW folks.

So, newer members, please disregard because the following is not aimed at you in any way.

My fellow old grumps, with all due love and respect ...

Yes, I know, money's an issue. Yes, I know, distance is an issue.

But either COME TO A CON OR SHUT THE HELL UP ABOUT IT.

Okay?
Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 9:50:27 pm EST from 71.112.172.65

*hops in late on the group hug* Weee!

Not to add fuel to the fire, but I'm glad to say I mailed off my registration and payment today. So, hopefully I'll be meeting some of you guys later this summer. Trust me, I'll be asking lots of questions in the week or two leading up to it.
Asatira
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 9:23:25 pm EST from 66.168.244.117

Regarding critiquing the new comic:

I get a lot of "fan negativity" as a moderator of a Transformers board. Sometimes it seems that fans hate everything.

But here's what I've noticed:

People often bitch about what they don't like, but don't spend as much energy discussing what they do like. And so, even if people don't REALLY hate everything, it comes across as though they do, because their more positive thoughts go unwritten.

So really, the solution is, if you're going to make a comment about something you hate, try to make a comment about something you like as well.

I believe people should be free to say what's on their minds and to express if they don't like something. I just hope they do it in a constructive way: ie: "While the characters are easy to identify, some of their poses seem awkward" as opposed to "This art sucks bigtime," or "I hope this artist works on his facial expressions" as opposed to "Fire this guy ASAP."
Stormy
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 8:17:32 pm EST from 142.167.220.106

JONNY> I read that before. Greg didn't confirm the second volume of season two would be coming out. He said "hopefully".

There was no announcement.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 7:49:42 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

There is a direct link website for you at http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=6886 and you can read about the questions, DVD's, comics, and interview at http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=6886 Thank you.

Jonny
Jonny Modlin - [mmodlin@optonline.net]
Jonathan Modlin
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 7:46:23 pm EST from 24.44.53.156

Great. And I'll rob Wal-Mart, and give the money to the poor. Then I'll rob the poor and shoot the money!!

Winged Vampire: What do you mean by Gargoyles-related items? Are you referring to merchandise? Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing some T-Shirts. I'm something of a collector of those, and as far as Gargoyles are concerned, I've had to make my own.

Jonny Modlin: I too would like to see a direct link if you've got one. Especially since Google and Yahoo turned up nothing.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"The access code... is ANTI-TACO-LEGISLATION-DISESTABLISHMENTARIANISM." -Dialogue from the alternate ending to "City of Stone"
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 7:42:12 pm EST from 69.174.3.196

*stares at the sheer length of the Gathering 2006 document *

Whoa, Bishansky! How about next time posting a link to the text of the big Gathering events? Assuming that next time it's going to be even longer, that is.
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 7:40:17 pm EST from 4.245.23.13

Yes, I'm back in all my minty green glory.

Regarding elitism: Although it /is/ important for the Gathering to get a decent number of people showing up so that the con is able to pay for itself and doesn't leave the organizers in debt, I /don't/ believe it's fair to suggest that every fan should be able to make it. In my personal case, I've just spent every cent in my bank account to afford a business trip to present an academic paper in London, England. I need international credentials on my C.V. I have nothing left to go to the Gathering, or Botcon, this year. Other people will find themselves short of cash due to illness leaving them unable to work, sudden expenses (like their car dying), or other priorities (like in 2003, when I couldn't go to any cons because I had to pay for a cross-country move).

So, while it's nice to motivate those who have the money and are currently debating the desire to attend, it's not so good to imply that those with the desire but no cash are somehow at fault for that.

***

And on the Grimorum Anthology:

I've just finished my entry's first draft. Damn, if I didn't have a 5,000 word maximum, it would be twice that length. Originally I was going to put in the Valkyrie, from last year's story, but it would've taken too many words to explain her presence, so she's gone. Similarly, Una and Leo got their bits in the story pared down, because it was easier to have new characters step into certain roles than to justify what convinced Una and Leo to do it.

Although I didn't get to be as detailed and atmospheric as I wanted to be (not enough space), I'm pretty happy with what I've written.

(For those who were interested, last year's story, "Freya's Valkyrie," was not at ALL what I planned on. I was trying to write medieval Scotland and ended up in WWII Germany. At least THIS time, I managed to finish my original story concept :) )

***

And on the comic: I read a lot of comics, and there are some artists whom I like better than others. Often I find myself reading a comic drawn by not-my-favourite, and wondering what it would look like done by my favourite...but at the end of the day, what's most important is whether the art can tell the story. Dreamwave's Transformers VS GI Joe suffered from a serious problem where the art was SO dark that it obscured detail, so much so that it was hard to tell what the characters were doing. Gargoyles has a similar concern, since so much of the story takes place at night. But from what I've seen of the preview pages, I was actually pleased. I could easily follow what the characters were doing and read their emotions. While I know some fan artists who could probably do better art, I don't think the art in the comic is hideous or going to be the major make-or-break factor for the comic.

It's nice to be back :)
Stormy
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 7:30:37 pm EST from 142.167.220.106

You two do whatever you want.

I'm off to rob Quizno's.
The Winged Vampire - [The_Winged_Vampire@hotmail.com]
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 6:54:34 pm EST from 199.224.75.242

HoE> Sorry, beat you to it. Now I'm off to rob McDonalds!
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 5:27:08 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

Greg B: <In the end, aren't weall here for the same reasons? Don't we have the same goals?>

We sure are. Now let's rob that bank!
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"The access code... is ANTI-TACO-LEGISLATION-DISESTABLISHMENTARIANISM." -Dialogue from the alternate ending to "City of Stone"
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 4:57:29 pm EST from 69.174.3.196

The comic should kick ass. I think if this pulls through and is as successful and big as the original TV series was then this could be a whole new platform for the fanbase to be rejuvinated and grow upon. Quite possibly Gargoyles-related items could make a comeback. I could kill for it. Most the stuff I have is deteriorating or looks like it's been to Hades and back.
The Winged Vampire - [The_Winged_Vampire@hotmail.com]
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 4:50:15 pm EST from 209.74.24.224

wonders what lead to all of this, bout joins in group hug, lol
Dragomir
gargoyles rule, quarrymen drool!
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 4:48:49 pm EST from 63.161.129.109

Yeah, I just hope nobody here thinks anyone is a bad guy. In the end, aren't weall here for the same reasons? Don't we have the same goals?

As for the group hug. Sorry, I'm not drunk enough ;)
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 4:24:09 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

*joins in the group hug*
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
Pimpin' my DA gallery
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 4:20:08 pm EST from 205.188.117.68

Greg B: I've never thought of you as an elitist. You just know how to navigate ASK GREG better than I do, but as a guy wearing a toga probably said once, "everybody can do something."


Me, I just like "Gargoyles," something few others in my family seem to (my brother used to, back when it first aired, but these days I think he just looks upon it as another Disney cartoon), and am glad to have found some people that share a love of that show. I've had some great public and private discussions on the subject with various people, and hope to have many more.

Group hug, anybody?
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"The access code... is ANTI-TACO-LEGISLATION-DISESTABLISHMENTARIANISM." -Dialogue from the alternate ending to "City of Stone"
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 4:16:20 pm EST from 69.174.3.196

Jonny Modlin> Do you have a direct link? Greg said in that interview that it would hopefully come out.

There has been no announcement yet.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 4:00:23 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

Whitbourne> Oops just noticed we had the same color.

The Winged Vampire> Hopefully this is helpful. http://comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=6886
Doppleganger - [erodri52000@yahoo.com]
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 3:58:42 pm EST from 67.37.232.184

I read on Disney Animation Forums over the weekend that Gargoyles Season Two, Volume One sold well and it said were on our way to Gargoyles Season Two, Volume Two coming out on DVD this year in December 2006. I also read about IN DEPTH with Greg Weisman & "Gargoyles" at http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=6886 about the comics, and the DVD's. Greg Weisman said that Gargoyles Season Two, Volume Two on DVD will come out (hopefully) on DVD this year in December 2006 with the remaining 26 episodes. I am excited for the release of Gargoyles Season Two, Volume Two coming out on DVD this year in December 2006 to complete the series. *Gargoyles is a popular cartoon show. Thank you.

Jonny
Jonny Modlin - [mmodlin@optonline.net]
Jonathan Modlin
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 3:56:19 pm EST from 24.44.53.156

I got the first DVD a couple years ago. I was hoping I would get the next one for Christmas but that didn't happen. Someone should give me the 411 on this comic, other than comments saying the artwork sucks. I've seen a lot of that in the archives and it's a huge turn-off.
The Winged Vampire - [The_Winged_Vampire@hotmail.com]
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 3:53:50 pm EST from 209.74.24.224

Spacebabie> Oh, I quite agree.

What I'm saying is that, intentionally or not, there is sometimes a certain impression given off by people's comments, here and elsewhere, that implies that there is a "clique" of people who are more dedicated and hardcore than others, and that the rest of the people are more peripheral. I don't believe that the people who do it do it intentionally, but it does come across, sometimes more clearly than others.

Greg, I'm not intending to single you out, but your comment about budgeting and the like is an example. The unspoken implication - and whether you meant it to or not, it comes across that way - is that "if you were really into this, you'd budget and save your money to go, and since you didn't, well, that says something about your dedication". I'm sure you meant it much differently, but that's the way that it came across.

I'm not interested in playing some "elitist fan" card, because I know most of the people who've been in this for a while, and I think most of them genuinely do not and never would contemplate thinking that way. But I can also see how impressions are given off by things that we don't even think of, and while I'm sure that many of us don't mean to sound snippy or callous or exclusionary, sometimes we do.

I think what I'm saying is that I want us to be careful about giving off the impression that there is a clique of people, us versus newbies, whatever, and end up turning off people who would otherwise be much into the series without meaning to.
Whitbourne
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 3:52:32 pm EST from 69.195.234.9

No offense to anyone here but I've been perusing the comment room for a few weeks now. I agree with Whitbourne and Purplegoldfish. There has been rather bad vibes coming from this area as of late. I can understand that some people can be rather annoying and others are others can be outright vicious in their tricks. But that's no reason for bad manners and a snobby attitude. Call me a hypocrite but I've had this bad feeling coming for some time now from some of the veteran posters here. Come on guys! We were all "newbies" once. We were all green.

I would think that watching the show, critiquing and analyzing it the way that we do one of "Gargoyles" many important lessons would come through. Tolerance. Just because someone is different, thinks and acts differently, shouldn't necessarily mean that person is bad. Change can be a good thing.

And above else this fandom needs fresh blood. Especially with the new comic just on the horizon.
Doppleganger - [erodri52000@yahoo.com]
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 3:48:32 pm EST from 67.37.232.184

I'll quote someone who is dear to me. "not being able to go to the gathering does not make you a lesser fan, but whining and crying "Only smart wealthy peopel with good jobs get to go to cons!" does."

If you love the series then you are a true fan.

You do not have to go to Every gathering. I haven't been to every gathering and I'm still a fan, you dont even have to go to one gathering. All you have to do to be a fan of the series is watch the show and love it.

If you have the money you can bouy the dvds and the comic.
Spacebabie - [spacebabie@hotmail.com]
"People are like stars. There are bright ones, and then there are those who are dim."~ Hot Ice Hilda
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 3:41:40 pm EST from 70.185.6.104

Whit> Now that we can agree on.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 3:35:36 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

Greg B- No offense, but I'm kind of getting that superiority vibe from you too *shrug* I'm sure it's not intentional. Just try not to scare away any newbies ;)

I truly do wish I could make it to the gathering-this one coming up especailly. But I hope everyone that does go has a great time and comes back with many stories.

Winged Vampire: I understand where you're coming from. But I felt very welcome when I first began talking in here.
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
Pimpin' my DA gallery
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 3:34:24 pm EST from 205.188.117.68

Well, before this turns into some kinbd of flame war, I do want to preventatively nip in the bud any suggestion that I think this is something intentional. And it is natural that those of us who have the most immediate involvement, via Gatherings and such, would be relatively close together.

I just think that having that become some kind of "us versus them" thing - long-term fans versus Newbies, Gathering attendees versus non-attendees, whatever - is counter-productive, especially when there's new stuff coming out like the comic book. Smarminess and self-absorption on the part of us who have been around for longer is absolutely the last thing we want, especially when we're trying to make a deliberate point of attracting new people to our midst so that things like the comic book keep going.
Whitbourne
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 3:29:13 pm EST from 156.34.178.163

Okay, okay. Let me say this. There is NO "lesser fan" feelings or implications. None. No one has said anything. No one has even implied it.

If you like "Gargoyles". You are a fan.

So, please stop playing the "Elitist Fan" Card. No one has played the "True Fan" card. It is a card that I for one truly despise. Both cards.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 3:27:05 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

I've been getting vibes from this place before I started posting. Particularly the regulars are all high and mighty and the newbies are nothing but cannon fodder kind.
The Winged Vampire - [The_Winged_Vampire@hotmail.com]
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 3:21:06 pm EST from 209.74.24.224

*Glad he's not the only one who's been feeling the "lesser fan" vibes*
Wingless
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 3:12:22 pm EST from 70.27.173.206

Quote: Greg B--> Winged Vampire> If knowing how to budget and plan ahead is mind-boggling, then, well, yes. You'd be right. < End Quote

I didn't ask that to be a wiseass, wiseass. I would think about what the person who posted right after you just said. They make a very good point. Just because you have the kind of dough to throw out on whatever does not make you any more better than anyone else here.
The Winged Vampire - [The_Winged_Vampire@hotmail.com]
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 2:57:00 pm EST from 209.74.24.224

I'm not putting words in anybody's mouth. Mobody's come out and said it. But there is a tone that's coming across, and not just here, that has that implication - true fans as compared to "lesser" fans.

I doubt it's conscious, and I doubt it's intentional, but it's there. Lately there seems like there's very much a "clique" mentality in the fandom. I'm just noticing it is all.
Whitbourne
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 2:30:31 pm EST from 69.195.234.9

Whit> Who said you were lesser fans. No one said that. Please don't put words in my mouth.

It's the same as other people accusing some of us for being ungrateful just because we don't like Hedgecock's art.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 2:26:25 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

Greg> Keep in mind that it is diificult for a lot of people to afford this. The years I've gone it's by the skin of my financial teeth, and I dare say I've got a higher income than most people in the fandom.

It'd be nice if everyone could go every year, but it's not realistic. Some people are dedicated and hardcore enough that they can set aside money for plane tickets and accomodations to a relatively faraway place like Los Angeles (keep in mind that for me, London, England is closer than Los Angeles is) but a lot of us can't, and it can get a little disheartening to hear the implication - and it is there, in a lot of what's getting posted these days - that those of us who can't go for whatever reason are "lesser" fans.
Whitbourne
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 2:23:32 pm EST from 69.195.234.9

Winged Vampire> If knowing how to budget and plan ahead is mind-boggling, then, well, yes. You'd be right.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 2:00:28 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

I sure would have liked to go to something like this ten years ago. Even if they had something like this back then, just coming up with the dough to go to one of these gatherings is a challenge in and of itself. It's mind-boggling, to me anyway, how anyone especially those who attend on a regular basis are able to do it.

Is there a gallery anywhere that shows you what all the listed avatars are? I can see the titles in the list, but I don't know what they look like.
The Winged Vampire - [The_Winged_Vampire@hotmail.com]
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 1:56:53 pm EST from 209.74.24.224

GATHERING NEWS!

In this issue: New Guests! Gathering 2007 Bids! Contest Reminders!
Fan Panelists Wanted! Dates to Remember!

NEW GUESTS:

"W.I.T.C.H.", the latest series from the folks at Disney and Producer
Greg Weisman, is having a cast and crew REUNION -- with Gathering
attendees as witnesses! Come see and listen as members of the writing
staff and voice cast talk about this fantasy-adventure serial.
Joining us on Sunday, June 25 will be:

Steve Blum - Voice of Blunk
Kittie - Voice of Taranee
Loren Lester - Voice of Julian
Tracy Martin - Voice of Bess Grumper
Candi Milo - Voice of Irma
Marianne Muellerleile - Voice of Galgheita
Justin Shenkarow - Voice of Eric
Mitchell Whitfield - Voice of Phobos
Samuel Bernstein - Writer
Leslie Jaspherson - Production manager
Ginny McSwain - Voice director
Jon Weisman - Writer

"Hellboy", the animated project. Come meet the behind-the-scenes crew
for a sneak peek at what goes into making the two new upcoming direct
to DVD "Hellboy" features from IDT Entertainment. Joining us on
Saturday, June 24 will be:

Tad Stones - Supervising Producer / Director
Victor Cook - Director
Greg Guler - Character Designer
Phil Weinstein - Director

To view the full Gathering 2006 guest list, please visit:
http://www.gatheringofthegargoyles.com/g2006/guests.html

There will be many unique opportunities to mingle with the guests.
Some will be sign-up events, with first-come, first-serve
availability. All will require you to be a member of the Gathering of
the Gargoyles to participate. Don't miss out. Register now!

http://www.gatheringofthegargoyles.com/g2006/registration.html

THE GATHERING 2007 - CALL FOR BIDS

It's time once again for you, the fans, to decide where the next
Gathering of the Gargoyles will take place. If you are interested in
placing a bid for The Gathering 2007, now is the time to assemble your
convention staff and put your proposal together. For complete bidding
rules and guidelines, please visit the Gathering 2007 Bid Information
page at:

http://www.gatheringofthegargoyles.com/g2006/g2007-bids.html

The deadline for bid submissions is March 31, 2006, so please don't
delay! The Gathering 2007 depends on you!

ANTHOLOGY CONTEST:

The Gathering of the Gargoyles is proud to present, once again, an
anthology of all-new and original fan work! Following up on 2004's
Phoenix Gate Anthology and 2005's Eye of Odin Anthology, we're
completing the trilogy with the third infamous artifact in the set…
the Grimorum Arcanorum!

For over a thousand years, this ancient tome has made its way into the
hands of one villain after another and caused untold mischief with its
magic. But where did it come from? Who else has thumbed its fragile
pages over the centuries? What spells and secret lore are contained
within its leather binding?

The time has come to answer some of those questions. And you can help!
The Grimorum Arcanorum Anthology is accepting submissions of stories
and artwork to appear in a limited-edition paperback book that will
debut at the Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles in Los Angeles,
California.

The deadlines for entries are March 31, 2006 for stories and April 15,
2006 for artwork. For complete rules and guidelines, please visit:

http://www.gatheringofthegargoyles.com/g2006/anthology.html

ART SHOW:

Attention all artists! The Art Show is filling up fast! We have only
a few more display spaces available, and once they are gone we will be
unable to accept any more Art Show registrations. The fee for panel
or table space is only $10, and artists of all ages and abilities are
welcome to participate. For more information, please visit:

http://www.gatheringofthegargoyles.com/g2006/art-show.html

MUSIC VIDEO CONTEST:

Music video showings have a been a popular part of many fan
conventions for a long time. This year, The Gathering of the
Gargoyles again presents an opportunity for the fans to put their
"Gargoyles" music video ideas on tape (or digital media) for other's
enjoyment.

Music videos are much more than just episode footage put to a song. By
taking clips from different scenes and episodes and mixing and timing
them with music, they can do just about anything the creator wants:
highlight certain portions of a series, tell a story through song, or
even parody ideas through wordplay.

The deadline for entries is June 3, 2006. For complete rules and
guidelines, please visit:

http://www.gatheringofthegargoyles.com/g2006/music-vids.html

FAN PANELISTS WANTED:

1. Are you going to be at the Gathering this year, in beautiful
Valencia, CA?

2. Are you any or all of the following?
A. Writer
B. Artist
C. Costumer or Cosplayer
D. Frequent Con-Goer
E. Gargoyles Know-It-All

3. Are you willing and able to talk in front of a group?

4. Want to be on some panels?

Yes? Then The Gathering of the Gargoyles 2006 needs YOU!

Fan Panelist Coordinator Christine is now accepting volunteers to give
talks, make presentations or lead discussions on a variety of subjects!

What do you get by being a panelist? Well, there's no money in it … no
limos … probably not a lot of groupies. But how does the envy,
admiration and acclaim of your peers sound? Plus, we'll throw in a
special ribbon to announce your status to everyone at the con! And
maybe some other exclusive treats and goodies as well.

Fan Panels are currently broken down into five Tracks - Writing, Art,
Costuming, Meta-Fandom, and The Gargoyles Universe - each containing a
variety of topics. Most panels will be expected to run for about an
hour in length.

Track - Writing
- Creating Compelling Characters
- Tools, Tricks and Traps of the Trade
- Villains, Villainy and Plots
- Romance and Drama
- Crossovers: from Silly to Serious
- Writing the Erotic Scene
- Designing and Running Roleplaying Games
- Collaborations and Shared Universes

Track - Art
- Sketching 101
- Character Design and Drawing
- Coloring Methods: Traditional, Digital, Beyond
- Web Comics
- Drawing the Erotic Scene

Track - Costuming
- Costuming and Make-Up Basics
- Cosplay Tips, Tricks and Etiquette
- Advanced Costuming
- Dude Looks Like a Lady … And the Other Way Around!

Track - Meta-Fandom
- Your First Con
- Online Fan Sites
- Fan to Pro
- Making Music Videos
- So You Want to Host a Gathering?

Track - The Gargoyles Universe
- Gargoyle Biology, Anatomy and Physiology
- Gargoyle Psychology, Society and Culture
- Historical and Literary Influences
- Science and Technology
- Magic, Artifacts and Tabloid Weirdness

Ideally, we'd like each panel to have from 3-5 presenters, to get some
lively chatter going. Please remember that this is still a working
draft, a tentative list, and the actual panel line up may be changed
between now and con time.

If you see something on there that you are interested in, excited
about, and feel reasonably confident and well qualified to speak on,
by all means contact Christine straightaway and let her know!

It'd also be helpful to know what days you're planning to be at the
con (which runs from Friday through Monday) and by what
name/handle/alias you'll be going.

To become a fan panelist, e-mail Christine at: christine@sabledrake.com

HELP PROMOTE THE GATHERING:

We don't want a single "Gargoyles" fan to be unaware of The Gathering
2006, and we're looking for a few good fans to help us spread the
word! If you will be attending a convention in your area in the near
future, please let us know about it and take a few copies our flyer
along. To download the most recent version of the flyer, please visit:

http://www.gatheringofthegargoyles.com/g2006/flyers/gathering-flyer2.pdf

If you have a web site, Livejournal, or regularly post to message
boards, there's another way you can help! Just choose a banner
graphic or link button from our web site, download it, and add it to
your web page, online journal, or message board signature line. For
details, visit:

http://www.gatheringofthegargoyles.com/g2006/links.html

GARGOYLES SEASON 2 on DVD:

On December 6, 2005, "Gargoyles" Season 2, Volume 1 became available
on DVD. This 3-disc box set includes the first 26 episodes of the
second season, from "Leader of the Pack" through "Kingdom." It also
includes an audio commentary on all four parts of "City of Stone" by
Greg Weisman, Frank Paur and Michael Reaves; episode introductions by
Greg Weisman; and the Gathering of the Cast and Crew featurette.

If you haven't already purchased your copy of the DVD, you can help
support The Gathering 2006 by ordering through Amazon.com by way of
the link on our web site.

http://www.gatheringofthegargoyles.com/g2006/

DATES TO REMEMBER:

March 31, 2006 - The last day to take advantage of the current
membership rates of $45.00 for adults and $25.00 for children ages 10
through 14 (accompanied by an adult).

http://www.gatheringofthegargoyles.com/g2006/registration.html

March 31, 2006 - Deadline for story entries in the Grimorum Arcanorum
Anthology Contest.
April 15, 2006 - Deadline for art entries in the Grimorum Arcanorum
Anthology Contest.

http://www.gatheringofthegargoyles.com/g2006/anthology.html

May 22, 2006 - Deadline for hotel reservations at the Hyatt Valencia
to receive the Gathering's discounted block rate.

June 3, 2006 - Deadline for Art Show Registration

http://www.gatheringofthegargoyles.com/g2006/art-show.html

June 23 - 25, 2006 - The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles.


Questions? Comments? Contact us at: staff@gatheringofthegargoyles.com

- The Gathering 2006 Staff
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 10:44:02 am EST from 65.33.202.237

Vinnie-- Just to explain why some of us are expressing concerns over the art... Take a look at the pages in the article at comicbookresources.com. They are pencilled, colored (not inked... looks like there's no inker for this book, which would improve things exponentially), and the first few have word balloons. That looks an awful lot like finished art that's ready to see print. I don' think what we've seen will look much better in print; printing will not fix anatomy errors. I've been trying ot be really hopeful about this, and if those are the pages going to the printers, it's extremely disappointing.

Spacebabie-- I know what you mean, about watching an artist improve over the years. Sluggy Freelance is an excellent example. So is Something Positive. Keep in mind, though... webcomics are a very different venue. It's a little easier for them to keep going for several years. But, I don't think a small, independent comic book publisher can wait years for an artist to improve on a title that's got a small cult following at best (to start. Hopefully we'll expand with the comic on shelves).

When we first heard that Hedgecock was announced as the penciller for Gargs, some of us did some research, looking up Hedgecock's previous work. For a seasoned, so-called veteran professional penciller, he makes the SAME mistakes over and over again, year after year, project after project. Hopefully, constructive criticism (and believe me, I have plenty) WILL help him improve. But based on his track record, I'm afraid I'm not very hopeful, in spite of my best efforts to stay optimistic. :(
Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail.com]
"Live for glory, strength and fury; play your part in the greater scheme of life and nature" - Inkubus Sukkubus
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 10:38:21 am EST from 24.126.11.109

I'm one person who agrees that the art in the comic (based on what we've seen of it so far) could use some work (I'd never have recognized Travis Marshall if I wasn't familiar with the original story in "The Journey" and his role in it!). Though I will confess that when reading a comic, I tend to pay more immediate attention to the story than to the art first time around, unless the art's extremely bad or very different from the way that it's usually done. (The last issue of the short-lived "X-Men: Evolution" comic had the misfortune to suffer from a guest artist whose style was alarmingly different from that of the artist who did all the other issues.)

I hope that the drawing of the "Quarryman meeting" scene will make the characters at least somewhat recognizable (more so than Travis was drawn); I really want to get a good look at that scene to see how many familiar faces were being recruited by Castaway. I know that Banquo and Fleance, Vinnie, and Billy and Susan's mom were all there, but I want to see if anyone else that we know was present.
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 8:28:47 am EST from 4.244.211.13

For the record, I read everyone's comments and try to understand them, even when I don't agree with them.
No one in this room should ever feel they are being ignored.

I've said my piece on the comic topic, but I'm glad to hear everyone will be buying multiple copies.

I'm out of here for a couple days. It's spring break for me. And where am I off to? Home. Mom'd house. I have a dentist appointment back in St. Louis.

Be good everybody!

*Grabs a handful of cookies on my way out*
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"History is the version of past events that people have decided to agree upon." - Napolean Bonaparte
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 8:10:22 am EST from 150.201.114.132

Chameleongirl: Happy Canberra Day! Dont do anything I wouldn't do, or would, for that matter. Unless you see a corpse, in which case, take its eyes. Trust me, it doesn't need them.

Vinnie: The only person whose mind it makes sense in is George Lucas's. That or my cousin, who loved all three prequels and has something to say in their defense, no matter what argument I present. Although I recently picked up a tidbit I still have to share with him. I don't think even he can defend this one.

Spacebabie: Where was this Elisa promo? I must have missed it.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"We all have our dark side, to say the least. And dealing in death is the nature of the beast." -Pink Floyd.
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 6:46:13 am EST from 69.174.3.196

I really don't see the need to complaign about the art yet, at least until the book comes out and even then it's not like an comic book artist is a permanant job. After a set period of time we will see a new artist if it last long enough, and hopefully another one after that, and another, etc. But you never know!

I have to agree with the majority about George Lucas and Star Wars. I lost all all respect for Anakin as a tragic villian when I saw episode three and the Jedi were inept when it came to preserving the Republic that I was actually cheering on the Sith. I mean all the Jedi needed to do was let Padme reason with Anakin. But no she was only allowed to get out a few fear stricken words before Obi-Wan made his appearance that in essence was what made Anakin angry enough to lash out at Padme. Talk about stupid couldn't Obi-Wan have wait at least until Padme out of the killing field?!
Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]
Peace!
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 6:08:00 am EST from 69.54.209.81

Crispin is very cool:) He plays one of my fav anime characters, Zelgadis, from "Slayers". No it isn't about vampires. Watch it!:)
Jade Griffin
Foooooooodd!!
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 2:06:49 am EST from 71.83.112.202

Wingless> As a fellow Canuck, I always read your posts. Like Kris' and the other couple of us (I forget who y'all are now, sorry!)
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 1:24:53 am EST from 198.53.28.99

Wingless> If you say that no one reads your posts, then why bother writing them? If no one reads them, then why am I responding to it? I'm just kidding, don't stop writing comments :)

Anyways....we sure are getting a lot of new commenters in this CM which is a good thing if i can add. By the way, has anyone checked the guest list for the gathering lately. We got atleast 16 more guests. From the show W.I.T.C.H., Hellboy, and also this actor I don't really know, Crispin Freeman.

Here some some new card ideas for the topic I made last week:

Gargoyle Gathering

Spell Card: Continuous

Increase the ATK of all gargoyles on the field by 500 as long as this card remains face up on the field.

Humans, Begone!

Spell Card

This card can only be activated if your opponent has atleast one or more humans on his/her side of the field. Destroy all humans on your opponent's side of the field and decrease your opponent's life points by 500 points for each human destroyed by the effect of this card. If you have one or more "Demona" on your side of the field, the damage done to your opponents life points by the effect of this card is doubled.
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
"For me to poop on!" - Triumph the insult comic dog
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 1:05:26 am EST from 69.234.6.13

Comic Post

Yes the details are annoying on the first glance. Goliath and Broolyn were missing body parts in various scenes, Matt and Few others looked stoned, the heads and hands on the characters are a bit too big. Goliath loos like has an afro at the beginning.

Could I do better? No I can't I will admit Hedgcock is a better artist and much better than another comic book artist who's initials are RL.

Yes we have been spoiled by the great artists in this fandom and by the cover and the promo with Elisa in a tiger stripe dress. It is a bit of a letdown to have been exposed to their great art and then see the interior of the comic.

The General public haven't. I am Hoping( Hoping is the key word) that since they haven't been exposed to our fandom's visual ambrosia they wouldn't be elt down with the interior.

Can Hedgecock improve? Yes and he will probably will. (Here is that HOPE again) I'm a big fan of Sluggy Freelance. I read it everyday. I'm used to the great drawings by Pete. If you click on the very first strip you will noticed how far he came.

We can help Hedgecock improve...not by just giving him sparkly amounts of praise, but by concrit. We could suggest he try to draw the heads and hands a little smaller and make Goliath's hair less poofy.

We want the comic to do well

We want Hedgecock to get better.

We are Hoping the people who buy comic books will not be dissapointed.
Spacebabie - [spacebabie@hotmail.com]
"People are like stars. There are bright ones, and then there are those who are dim."~ Hot Ice Hilda
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 12:56:45 am EST from 70.185.6.104

S8 being down. I'm told that the machine the site was on had to be rebooted for some reason, and the site was down for a while as a result.

Then again. no one reads my posts.
Wingless
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 12:47:03 am EST from 70.27.173.206

9th
oneuke
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 12:46:02 am EST from 69.3.208.128

Eight!
Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail.com]
"Live for glory, strength and fury; play your part in the greater scheme of life and nature" - Inkubus Sukkubus
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 12:44:49 am EST from 24.126.11.109

7th!! What caused s8 to go down?
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 12:35:18 am EST from 63.232.250.42

Six
Spacebabie - [spacebabie@hotmail.com]
"People are like stars. There are bright ones, and then there are those who are dim."~ Hot Ice Hilda
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 12:29:24 am EST from 70.185.6.104

Tyrannosaurus!

I mean...

5!!!
The Winged Vampire - [The_Winged_Vampire@hotmail.com]
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 12:16:02 am EST from 216.37.154.168

Mark your calendars.. that'll be the first, and probably only, time I get 1st post. o.O
Totally not intentional.
*hides*
Y2Hecate - [y2hecate@aol.com]
~Nikki/Hecate~
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 12:06:37 am EST from 216.145.71.5

Or, rather, fourth.
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 12:01:45 am EST from 68.58.253.131

Third, in the hopes that this week I actually have time to contribute to the discussion. There were so many good topics last week. Sigh...
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 12:01:28 am EST from 68.58.253.131

3rd!!!!
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"The only way to make your PC go faster is to throw it out a window." - Robert Paul
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 12:01:08 am EST from 150.201.114.132

Crap, am i 1st or 2nd?
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
"For me to poop on!" - Triumph the insult comic dog
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 12:00:51 am EST from 69.234.6.13

1st again
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
"For me to poop on!" - Triumph the insult comic dog
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 12:00:21 am EST from 69.234.6.13

Kyt - Hey, I heard this rumor that Heccy's tryin to put a bid together. ;)
Y2Hecate - [y2hecate@aol.com]
~Nikki/Hecate~
posted @ Mon, Mar 20, 2006 12:00:03 am EST from 216.145.71.5