Comment Room Archive : Gargoyles : Station Eight

Dragomir> "I know the Archmage wasn't killed back in the cave, I'm just saying that I couldn't understand how he could still be alive to save himself via time travel if he never had the Phoenix Gate in his possession to begin with.

Quick answer that may not help: Not all events in the Gargoyles universe time-travel have a definite cause. There can be loops: You go back in time and save yourself, tell yourself how you did it, and then, the you that was saved can let time pass and go back in time and repeat the process. There is no root cause here: there is no scenario where you decided to go back in time without knowing that you would anyway. Essentially, you have no choice.

I believe in the archives, Greg W. compares the Phoenix Gate to a bubble of pressure in the time stream.
Somewhere else, when discussing TimeDancer, I think he mentioned that the gate could be viewed as being controlled by the Gargoyles universe's equivalent to God, whatever that may be.

While this discussion applies to the TimeDance of Brooklyn, it still applies to people (I include gargoyles with people -- if I mean humans I say humans ;-) ) directing the gate to the past, as only trips that had taken place can be made: in 2006, you can choose to go back to 996 if and only if in 996, you had arrived. Xanatos could choose to go back to get his ancient coin if and only if in the 900s, Xanatos showed up in history, albeit in a virtually unnoticable way to almost everyone but the Illuminati.

Furthermore, I believe Xanatos thought that had he been forced to stay in the 900s, he would have a major impact on Scotland, à la the Connecticut Yankee of Mark Twain. (He assumed he wouldn't be killed quickly, I suppose. Confident fellow, he is.) Thus, as no-one made a Connecticut Yankee-esque impact on 900s' Scotland, he was pretty sure that he would not, and could not, stay for any prolonged period of time.

If you think about it, though, Xanatos had no choice in the matter. He *had* to go back in time, since he did have an impact on the past, and changing that impact is impossible in Gargoyles. Ergo, Xanatos is *not* a self-made man, as he claims. He is a creature of the Phoenix Gate, if you will let me have some leeway here.

I hope that post-TimeDancer Brooklyn will bring this up.

On that note, if post-TimeDancer Brooklyn tells Demona that humans live and thrive by 2197, unless she believes he is lying, she is utterly bound. Any attempt to wipe out humanity would be utterly futile. Of course, this means she would be irrevocably changed from her pre-TimeDancer character (*NOT* *REFORMED* guys!), and quite possibly diminshed. Hence the need for Thailog to become the prime enemy, I suppose.

Running short on time. I would appreciate someone checking that I'm not misremembering things.

Quote: The password is: Alone.
JJ Gregarius
Like the man said, "There are no problems; only solutions!"
posted @ Sun, Apr 9, 2006 2:36:45 pm EDT from 206.57.92.155

I always figured that the Sisters turned over control of Demona and Macbeth to the Archmage. They were still under the Sisters' spell, but the Archmage was the one using them. This kinda fits with the fact that in High Noon Demona and Macbeth had personality, could talk and their eyes were normal. When the Archmage took control they talked much less and seemed to be mostly mindless puppets and their eyes were whited over the whole time.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people." -Unknown
posted @ Sun, Apr 9, 2006 12:42:19 pm EDT from 150.201.114.132

Dragomir: I know that Demona and Macbeth were under the control of the Weird Sisters in "High Noon." They might have been under the Archmage's control in "Avalon." Unless he was just boasting when he told Goliath that they were his puppets in "Avalon, Part III," or was just taking credit for the Sisters' spell. He was rather arrogant like that.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
END OF LINE.
posted @ Sun, Apr 9, 2006 12:06:43 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

Time Loops are a delicious part of a healthy breakfast! And unlike most breakfast cereals, one box lasts for infinity and beyond!

76 days left until The Gathering 2006 in Valencia, California!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2006]
"There's that word again. Why are things so 'heavy' in the future? Is there something wrong with the earth's gravitational pull?" - Doc Brown, "Back to the Future"
posted @ Sun, Apr 9, 2006 11:26:52 am EDT from 66.72.192.110

Favorite quote, for Shara -- By Fox, in reply to her cellmate Hyena's question of why she reads Sartre, which Hyena asks as she shoots cockroaches with rubber bands: "'Cause Nietzsche's too butch and Kafka reminds me of your little friends over there."
Ellen
posted @ Sun, Apr 9, 2006 7:42:32 am EDT from 152.163.100.14

Oh man, is it Sunday already?

I've been keeping myself occupied so I haven't been around these parts much. I'll try to poke in every once in a while.
The Winged Vampire - [The_Winged_Vampire@hotmail.com]
Jalapena do I have a headache.
posted @ Sun, Apr 9, 2006 4:05:39 am EDT from 199.224.75.167

Thanks PGFish for the links, and thanks Lynati for the screen captures. I've been to that site before, but had forgotten about it. Its very helpful. All the gargoyles I mentioned were covered, different names of course, but easy enough to tell who is who(m?).

Dragomir> "I know the Archmage wasn't killed back in the cave, I'm just saying that I couldn't understand how he could still be alive to save himself via time travel if he never had the Phoenix Gate in his possession to begin with. Also, why was he afraid of damaging the time stream? I always thought that in gargoyles time was immutable and history always corrected itself (unless you do something like what Goliath did when he saved Griff from dying in WWII)."

-Ok. He had the Gate in his possession because the Sisters gave it to him. He used it to go back in time and rescue himself. Then he went on to receive the Gate from the Sisters. It's a time loop, and it works perfectly. He wasn't worried about damaging the time stream, he was only telling his younger self that the talismans must fulfill their roles in history before he can get them, he knows this because he only received the talismans from the Sisters. So, in other words, he knows the Sisters will bring the younger Archmage the talismans because the Sisters brought HIM the talismans, and nothing ever changes in history.
And history does not correct itself. Goliath was sorta wrong when he said it did. In fact, time never gets messed up in the first place. What happens has always happened and will always happen. Since you can't change history, history can't "correct" that change. Griff never died in WWII. Never. There was no different course of events where Griff died. Never happened. It's another time loop. From Griff's perspective, Goliath showed up one night and eventually brought him forward in time 45 years. From Una and Leo's perspective, Goliath showed up one night, left with Griff and they suspected they died. Goliath shows up again 45 years later and they are all pissed cuz Griff wasn't with him, so Goliath uses the Gate and leaves then reappears a bit later with Griff. Goliath's perspective is covered in MIA. "So Leo and Una's memories of me were accurate, but first I had to go back in time to meet them." Goliath didn't change history, he played his part in it.

"I knew that they reused the models to cut back on costs, I'm just saying that The Moray Clan was completely unrelated to the Wyvern Clan, and therefore should not have descendants on Avalon (the Wyvern gargs were all killed, no survivors, and the eggs were all taken to Avalon)."

-That's not entirely accurate. Sometime between 988 and 994 the Wyvern Clan split. One group remained at Wyvern with all the eggs laid in 988 and the other group went off to form a new Clan. The Wyvern Clan was destroyed in 994 and the eggs were taken to Avalon in 995. The other group eventually suffered their own massacre and only a few gargoyles survived it and had met Demona and grouped with her by 1020. Demona's second (the red guy with the breastplate) and the others were once members of the Wyvern Clan, Demona knew them. And they had produced eggs with their mates laid in the 988 Wyvern Rookery. So their eggs were taken to Avalon and hatched into remarkably similar children of theirs. Thats the in-Universe rationale anyway.
I've asked Greg all about this stuff, heres a few quotes:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Question received on Thu, April 26, 2001 10:23:44 AM

matt writes...

i was wondering some things about Demona's second from "City of Stone" the rust-colored garg with the breastplate:

1. you've said before that the almost identical garg on Avalon is his son, so he was part of the Wyvern clan until it split, right? were all the new gargs in "City of Stone" from that clan?

2. was he from Goliath and Demona's generation or an older one? was he Demona's rookery brother?

3. you hadn't thought of a behind the screen name for him have you? if so, do tell...

4. did he ever have a romantic interest in Demona?

5. did he survive Canmore's massacre of Demona's clan?

6. would we ever see him developed more in one of the spin-offs? Dark Ages maybe?

Greg responds...

1. No.

2. Probably not.

3. He had no name.

4. Maybe briefly. But I don't think that lasted.

5. No.

6. Yes.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Question received on Wed, November 07, 2001 03:14:44 AM

matt writes...

some questions about Demona's "City of Stone Clan":

1. did Demona know any of them before the Wyvern Massacre?

2. were any of them once members of the Wyvern Clan?

3. were any of them once members of the clan that separated from the Wyvern Clan?

4. were any of them banished gargoyles?

5. did you have any plans (in Gargoyles, or Dark Ages maybe) for showing where these gargs came from? i remember watching City of Stone for the first ime and wondering if i'd forgotten something from Awakenings or a flashback cuz one second they were the last of their kind and the next we found another group of them. kinda confused me...

Greg responds...

1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. Yes.
4. Probably.
5. The group that was the "last of their kind" (which also turned out not to be true) in "Awakening" were the six survivors who woke up in Manhattan in 1994. Nobody in 994 ever said that the Wyvern clan were the last of their kind.

And as with most things, given enough episodes I would have eventually dealt with just about EVERYTHING.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Hope all that helps. So many people underestimate how much information is in the Archives, but at least you are coming to us about it and not re-asking Greg about it.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people." -Unknown
posted @ Sun, Apr 9, 2006 3:31:51 am EDT from 150.201.114.132

My favorite quote that hasn't been mentioned yet was from Goliath in Awakenings. "It is the nature of mankind to fear what they do not understand. Their ways are not our ways." I used to have it stenciled on my wall at home.
Kaylle - [kaylle at ladyavalon.com]
www.GargoylesDVD.com
posted @ Sat, Apr 8, 2006 8:24:53 pm EDT from 18.109.7.230

Dragomir: "and perhaps learn to tolerate the Princess and Tom for saving the children she left behind. Maybe in the comics, (:"

I gotta disagree with you there-I think Demona would irrationally hate Katharine and Tom for one of the same reasons she hates elisa so much; the fact that these humans dispprove her "all humans are evil" theory. Like elisa, katharine and tom genuinely care about the gargoyles-and that would be something too painful and hard for Demona to admit to herself-because that would mean admitting she was wrong all this time.
I think someday in the vast future, she will finally admit this to herself-but not anytime soon.

As for Elisa holding demona at bay-well, not only is Demona under a spell, but her hatred towards elisa is clouding all and any judgement she may have. And really, Elisa doesn't hold her at bay too long-if the others hadn't pounced on demona when they did, Elisa would probably be sporting clawmarks on her face.
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
Pimpin' my DA gallery
posted @ Sat, Apr 8, 2006 7:35:16 pm EDT from 64.12.116.8

Everyone: Wow, I'm touched that I managed to get so many wonderful responses from you guys, thanks, makes me feel more like part of the comment room community! Oh yeah, just saw V for Vendetta, highly recommend it to those of you who enjoy complex plots and anti-heroes. You'de like it Greg Bi, very intellectual flick, and loads of schemes that would put Demona, Xanatos, and even Thailog all to shame!

Greg Bi and Harvester: I don't recall referring to the sisters as pure evil, but they are definately not angels either. They have zero regard for mortal lives, gargoyles or humans. They willingly aided the Archmage in his scheme to kill off an entire clan of innocent gargoyles and three humans, who only wanted peace! They even went so far as to manipulate poor Demona and MacBeth into doing their dirty work. I can't forgive them for turning Demona against her own rookery children, and using an honorable warrior such as MacBeth as a pawn.
The only thing the sisters care about was covering up their failure to keep mortals off Avalon from their Lord Oberon, and didn't hesitate to turn him against them later. I won't call them pure evil, because you are right, there's no such thing, but they definately revel in making others suffer (the looks they gave the Avalon gargs when they attacked creeped me out). The only characters who come even remotely close to being pure evil on the show are Thailog and the Archmage, no redeeming qualities that I know of. It especially pissed me off when they kept telling Goliath in City of Stone that all life is precious, when they obviously don't feel that way themselves (trio of hypocrits).

Matt: As always, I marvel at your information gathering skills and powers of observation! I definately intend to keep a look out for the list of original Avalon gargs I missed (I remember the fish dude, but none of the females except for Angela and Ophelia). Nice nicknames for them by the way. I didn't think about the Demona fight that way before, you're right (as usual, lol), she was the hardest to take down. Though I still think Elisa should not have been able to hold Demona at bay like that, after we've seen how easily other gargoyles defeat humans with so little effort (I don't think police training can cover assaults by gargoyles with super strength, lol). I too would love to see Demona encounter the Avalon Clan again, to see whether she could reconcile with them by even a small degree, and perhaps learn to tolerate the Princess and Tom for saving the children she left behind. Maybe in the comics, (:
Oh yeah, almost forgot, I know the Archmage wasn't killed back in the cave, I'm just saying that I couldn't understand how he could still be alive to save himself via time travel if he never had the Phoenix Gate in his possession to begin with. Also, why was he afraid of damaging the time stream? I always thought that in gargoyles time was immutable and history always corrected itself (unless you do something like what Goliath did when he saved Griff from dying in WWII). uggh....hate time travel...leaves to take an aspirin..

Taina: Hi there, thanks for the time travel link, I'll look it over and see if I can FINALLY understand garg time travel at long last, lol. I read your comments concerning Elisa and Demona, and you make a good point. Every time we see a character on Gargoyles under the influence of a mind control spell, they always seem to be weaker and more sluggish than usual, seeing as that their will is no longer their own and someone else is controlling their actions. Demona's inablity to overpower Maza with her superior strength and fighting skills can definately be attributed to the spell she was under at the time. I just thought it made very little sense that Demona's gargoyle talons could be held back by frail human hands (Maza's tough alright, but not punch through walls and tear through steel tough).
I knew that they reused the models to cut back on costs, I'm just saying that The Moray Clan was completely unrelated to the Wyvern Clan, and therefore should not have descendants on Avalon (the Wyvern gargs were all killed, no survivors, and the eggs were all taken to Avalon). Oh yeah, and concerning being unhappy about Demona's failures to destroy humanity...hee hee, I'm just a sucker for a pretty blue face in a halter top, lol
Dragomir
"Don't hate me because I'm devious!," Demona cues as she strikes an enticing pose for her loyal fans
posted @ Sat, Apr 8, 2006 7:07:44 pm EDT from 71.192.76.212

Greg is pretty adamant that there is no such thing as pure evil in the Gargoyles Universe. The Sisters definetly don't even come close to qualifying.

Luna is the Sister of Fate
Phoebe is the Sister of Grace
and Selene is the Sister of Vengeance.

Luna was sort of in control in "City of Stone", and Selene was sort of in control during the events of "Avalon". It's complex, Greg describes it better than I can.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
Each year, the Rainforest is responsible for over three thousand deaths from accidents, attacks or illnesses. There are over seven hundred things in the Rainforest that cause cancer. Join the fight now and help stop the Rainforest before it's too late.
posted @ Sat, Apr 8, 2006 4:18:00 pm EDT from 65.33.202.237

Dragomir: I'm hesitant to say that the Weird Sisters were pure evil. They might have felt animosity towards Tom, Katherine, Magus, and the Avalon gargoyles (since one of them does represent Vengeance), but they must also have known that Oberon would be returning to his island in the near future. That, and the enigmatic looks that they were wearing at the end of "Ill Met by Moonlight" makes one wonder if they had any knowledge about what would eventually come of everything. My understanding of them is that they are three individuals, but they are also one collectively. And one of them does represent Fate. So they very well might have. I think Greg might have covered this, as well.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
END OF LINE.
posted @ Sat, Apr 8, 2006 3:37:06 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

To add to the Avalon gargs, here's some pictures of the avalon garg designs from lynati's screencap haven: http://lynativerse.artchicks.org/Screencaps/Ga_Clan.htm

the second page shows the gargoyle designs that also appeared in CoS (and also appeared as the massacred gargs of Wyvern)
http://lynativerse.artchicks.org/Screencaps/Ga_Clan2.htm

and on a side note-one animation nit that kind of always annoyed me was the inconsistancy of the gargoyles in CoS. For instance, that little beaked green gargoyle was clearly smashed by Duncan and his crew in that cave- but later we see him standing next to Demona at Macbeth's coronation.

and on a completely different tangent: I was watching The Gathering on my crappy tape the other day, and noticed something I never have before. When Luna mentions Queen Titania is not at the gathering to Oberon she does this little hand signal-she lifts both her hands in the Hawaiin "hang-ten" gesture. I can't belive I've never noticed this before...is it a code for Titania or something?

AND quotes(if Shara is still intersted)

"Know her? [laughs] I named her!"-Macbeth

"What have I...what have THEY done to you?!"-Demona

"There is good and evil in all of us; humans and gargoyles alike!"-Goliath

"Only you would regard love as a weakness"-Goliath to Xanato

"You know how I feel about you, right?"
"How we both feel...yes"
"Good"-Elisa and Goliath
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
Pimpin' my DA gallery
posted @ Sat, Apr 8, 2006 2:34:18 pm EDT from 152.163.100.14

Two more Avalon Clan 'goyles I thought of:

"Tan Beak" - The fourth reused gargoyle from Demona's Clan. Tan skin, white hair, beak, horns with two points each. Wears a half overall, like Gabriel.
"Balcony girl" - Greenish female gargoyle with light colored hair and a ponytail seen up in the balcony chatting with one of Oberon's Children in "Ill Met..."

So thats 14 gargoyles out of 36 eggs. We know there are 2 more beasts we havn't seen (one male, one female) and 20 more gargoyles (12 more females, 8 more males).
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people." -Unknown
posted @ Sat, Apr 8, 2006 2:06:55 pm EDT from 150.201.114.132

Harvester of Eyes>when I finish the project I will get it up online for everyone :)
shara
posted @ Sat, Apr 8, 2006 1:28:52 pm EDT from 4.246.214.9

Dragomir/D. Taina> Interesting posts, both of you. I wanted to respond to some of the things mentioned:

Avalon Clan gargoyles> Sure there were a COUPLE of reused gargoyle models, but what always stood out to me about the Avalon Clan is how many ORIGINAL models there are. So many of the gargoyles are quite new. I'm not just talking about Gabriel, Angela, Ophelia and Boudicca, but I can think of at least 6 other new gargoyles off the top of my head, and could probably spot more if I looked again. Heres a list of the ones I've spotted:
Gabriel - Obvious who this is.
Angela - Obvious.
Ophelia - Obvious.
Boudicca - Obvious.
"Breastplate" - Reused model from Demona's second in command.
"Blue beak" - Little pale blue gargoyle with a beak and ears that flop down reused from Demona's Clan.
"Slim red" - Tall thin reddish gargoyle with a small beak reused from Demona's Clan.
"Water dude" - Blue gargoyle with webbed hands, feet and wings, fluked tail, and gill things and a decidedly fishy look.
"Big red" - A gargoyle with Broadway's body type, Brook's coloring, a clubbed tail and some sort of large head or large head structure.
"Green warrior" - A green gargoyle with brown hair. Fought Demona in the air and she scratched his wing up really bad. He's the gargoyle Katharine is attending when Goliath arrives.
"Sideburns" - Grayish dude with horns like Broadway's, but longer. No hair on head, but has brown sideburns. Used a spear to try to fight the Archmage.
"Lil horns" - A female gargoyle. Blue with black hair. Small horns emerging from her hair and little tiny horns coming out sideways from her cheek.

So, thats just a third of the Clan. I may go check out "Avalon" and "Ill met..." to see if I can spot any more, but the point is most of the gargoyles we see on Avalon are new models.

Demona fighting> You should be pleased really. I mean Demona is the hardest to bring down. Goliath and Angela take down the Archmage, Magus takes down the Weird Sisters, Arthur takes down Macbeth... and Demona is taken down by Elisa with her gun, Bronx, Boudicca, Gabriel, Tom, a crippled Ophelia, and Katharine with a laser rifle! Make no mistake, Demona is a tough warrior and wasn't going down easily.

I tend to agree with you, Dragomir, that had Demona not been under the spell she would've been thrilled to meet her hatchlings. I wonder if she could've even got along with K, T and the M whilst visiting Avalon. Would be interesting to see Demona visit Avalon spell-free.

Time Travel> D. Taina pulled up a great post from Greg. I think he explains things well, but to address you specific question, keep in mind that when the Archmage goes back to 984 there are at least two Phoinex Gates at that time. One the Archmage has carried with him from the future, and the other is in Demona and Goliath's possession, broken in half. Similarly, in Vows when the two Demonas and Goliath visit the Massacre scene of 994, there are THREE Gates in that time. One is broken in half and Goliath (frozen in stone) has one half and Demona the other, one young Demona brought from 975 and one old Demona brought from 1995.
As for the Archmage dieing, well, he never died, unless not until Goliath, or rather the Grimorum, killed him. He fell off that cliff and Goliath, Hudson, Demona and the audience all thought he died in "Long Way to Morning". He didn't. Before he could go splat his future self came back and saved him. He never died from that fall, everyone just thought he did. Thats why Goliath was so shocked when Tom told him the Archmage was attacking the Eggs, Goliath says, "The Archmage?! But he died before you were born." He didn't really die, it just seemed that way. He had the Gate because the Weird Sisters gave it to him.

Another interesting quote from Greg, given conversations earlier this week:

"I'm the main (though not the only) god of the Gargoyles Universe. (At least I used to be.)"

So, I guess I was right. LOL.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people." -Unknown
posted @ Sat, Apr 8, 2006 1:12:39 pm EDT from 150.201.114.132

Dragomir: Hi, I felt compelled to reply to your last post. I'm not going to try to explain the time travel theory to you, but I think this might help:

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?rid=2

It's a great ramble that explains time travel in Gargoyles perfectly. Read it carefully and you may understand how time travel works in the show.

Now, as for the rest of your post...

"I loved seeing the Avalon Clan in action again (even if many of them looked suspiciously like Moray Clan gargoyles who perished long ago, and should not have any descendants."

Some of the gargoyles in the Moray Clan were members of Wyvern once, or at least were descended from gargoyles of Wyvern. So, I do think it's possible that they have descendants on Avalon.

The real story behind it is, there wasn't enough time or money to design thirty-six new gargoyles. They had to reuse some old character models.

"Hardcore Demona fan that I am, it saddened me to see her battling her own hatchlings, this is the only time I'm glad she failed."

So, you weren't glad that she failed in wiping out humanity?

"I think it makes zero sense that Elisa was able to hold Demona at bay with her bare hands though. Gargoyles are several times stronger than humans, Demona should have been able to snap Maza's wrists with ease while in her natural gargoyle form. MacBeth can fight gargs because of his ancient fighting skills, body armor, and use of leverage, but Maza has none of these advantages on her side. If Demona can go toe to toe with Goliath, pick up and throw heavy boulders, and tear through solid steel, I think she should be able to overpower one human detective. It made more sense when Gabriel, Boudicca, and the Guardian Tom pinned her down. I'll let this go though and put it in the same category as the disappearing wing ribs and belly buttons."

I can't understand why you would put so-called plot errors under the same category as animation errors. But it's not a plot error and it's definitely not an animation error. Demona was under a spell the whole time. She didn't know what she was doing. And notice that she had Elisa pinned down on the floor, who was helpless to do anything other than grab her wrists and try to keep her from clawing her face off. You're not giving her a lot of credit if you think she can't hold her own against Demona for a little while, especially if the latter happens to be under a spell that clouds her judgment. So I don't see any errors here.

All that aside, it was a nice little ramble and it made me want to watch the episode again. So thanks!
D. Taina - [<-- Screenshots!]
"Orday rewindum tapus!" - The Heroes Awaken Game
posted @ Sat, Apr 8, 2006 12:26:27 pm EDT from 172.163.219.229

Shara: Will any excerpts be printed online or anything like that? Unfortunately, I won't make it out to California this year.

Stormy: I believe in a balance between good and evil. SOMETIMES, the ends justify the means. I won't print the chapter and verse of my source in here. E-mail me sometime if you'd like to know it.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Violence never solves anything, but it sure is fun!" -From Gandhi's "unabridged" autobiography.
posted @ Sat, Apr 8, 2006 10:33:52 am EDT from 69.174.3.196

Hey guys, good morning! I was watching the ending to the Avalon saga, and man do I love it! Its been a while since I've watched it from beginning to end, and I'de forgotten what a truly gorgeous and elaborate story it was...sigh...god I can't wait til the comics. I loved seeing the Avalon Clan in action again (even if many of them looked suspiciously like Moray Clan gargoyles who perished long ago, and should not have any descendants. check for the ram horned garg with the breast plate, Demona's second). And of course, I always enjoy listening to the voice actor of the Archmage, that evil bastard (the archmage, not the actor, lol).

I still love hating the Weird Sisters, pretending to hold Demona and MacBeth prisoner so Golaith wouldn't suspect their true motives. It pains me to see Demona and MacBeth used so badly by those heartless faye, so much of their suffering can be attributed to their manipulations (not entirely of course). Don't worry, I won't ask any of you to explain garg time travel to me again, but I still don't get how the Archmage could save his own life if he was supposed to die after falling over the cliff (he didn't have the gate, Demona and Goliath held both halves, and I don't think he ever held it before then either). I'll admit this though, I LOVED watching the future Archmage taunt and scold the past Archmage, so funny!

I still kinda wish Goliath had been able to get through to Demona and MacBeth, but understand it was important for them to remain baddies for the sake of this beatiful saga. There is no doubt in my mind that neither Demona or MacBeth would have harmed the Avalon Clan if they had been in their right minds at the time, you saw the looks of wonder on their faces. Demona would have been over joyed to see that her eggs had survived, though bitter that humans had raised them, and MacBeth never hurts anyone unless they wronged him first, or get in his way, honorable guy that he is. I'm just glad good triumphed in the end and the Archmage got what was coming to him, I can't help but grin everytime I watch that creep go up in mystic flames (absolute power corrupts absolutely...and tends to come back and kick you in the ass eventually, lol).

The between Arthur and MacBeth was awesome, loved seeing the King deck MacBeth with his ring studded fist, bet it left a mark. Hardcore Demona fan that I am, it saddened me to see her battling her own hatchlings, this is the only time I'm glad she failed. I think it makes zero sense that Elisa was able to hold Demona at bay with her bare hands though. Gargoyles are several times stronger than humans, Demona should have been able to snap Maza's wrists with ease while in her natural gargoyle form. MacBeth can fight gargs because of his ancient fighting skills, body armor, and use of leverage, but Maza has none of these advantages on her side. If Demona can go toe to toe with Goliath, pick up and throw heavy boulders, and tear through solid steel, I think she should be able to overpower one human detective. It made more sense when Gabriel, Boudicca, and the Guardian Tom pinned her down. I'll let this go though and put it in the same category as the disappearing wing ribs and belly buttons.

I still get teary eyed when I watch the Magus pass away, awesome character, and of course, who can not enjoy meeting Angela for the first time? Have a good day guys! Or night if you are still in stone sleep, lol
Dragomir
"Don't hate me because I'm devious," Demona cues as she strikes an enticing pose for the audience, evoking jealous glares from the other contestants
posted @ Sat, Apr 8, 2006 8:59:42 am EDT from 71.192.76.212

Elisa: "That's what he does. That's who he is." (Or something like that from the end of Hunter's Moon.)
L.T. Williams
posted @ Sat, Apr 8, 2006 6:05:50 am EDT from 71.93.81.240

My fave quote by Lex..."It's too weird...kinda fun, but weird."

and that's all i can remember off the top of my head. o.O
Obed - [angelgear2000@yahoo.com]
o.O
posted @ Sat, Apr 8, 2006 3:34:59 am EDT from 71.57.178.10

Hi Renee, long time no see. how ya been?
Dragomir
"Don't hate me because I'm devious," Demona cues as she strikes an enticing pose for the audience, evoking jealous glares from the other contestants
posted @ Sat, Apr 8, 2006 12:54:21 am EDT from 71.192.76.212

My favorite quote? Oh dear. Hm. *ponders this a great long while*

Puck: Ooh, you really hurt him with that one. Do it again.

Brooklyn: Defenders of the night, stopping evil stone cold.

Elisa Maza: Shapeshifters, elves, fairies... you mean they're real?
Hudson: As real as I am, if the stories be true.

That's a good start. :P
Renee
If all the world's a stage, then where's my script?
posted @ Fri, Apr 7, 2006 10:41:22 pm EDT from 63.200.119.60

Observation: I walked down to a nearby park to feed the ducks and watch the sun go down over the lake this evening. Very pretty night. Something occured to me though. After the sun had completly dissapeared over the horizon it flashed in my head that gargoyles would be waking up about then. But as I looked around, I noticed the sky was still blue and it wasn't dark at all.
So maybe its kinda like the constant full moon in the series and we can call it artistic license, but when we see the gargoyles wake up, its funny how the sky is black by the time they are done stretching and yawning when really this takes an hour or so after sunset.
Just my thoughts, feel free to comment.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people." -Unknown
posted @ Fri, Apr 7, 2006 9:09:10 pm EDT from 150.201.114.132

My favorite quote comes from City of Stone part 1. Towards the end, Lexington says "I hope tonight is quieter than last night was." That quote has stuck out for me.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Fri, Apr 7, 2006 8:19:45 pm EDT from 63.232.255.186

Harvester of Eyes: While I'm not responsible for something negative that someone else decides to do, I /am/ responsible for doing something that I /know/ will make the world a nastier place to be, thereby increasing the likelihood of other people reacting to that negativity with negativity of their own. That's why if you do nothing, you break even, but if you can overcome your own pain/sadness/rage and do something /good/, you can make the world just that bit much better for everyone in it.
Stormy
posted @ Fri, Apr 7, 2006 7:06:30 pm EDT from 142.167.219.165

Kingdom Hearts> I just realized something. Gargoyles are featured in the first "Kingdom Hearts" but not the gargoyles we all know and love. That may sound bad but it may be a sign. Maybe back then, they wanted Gargoyles (Greg Weisman's gargoyes) in the game but just didn't have the right materials or just didn't know where they can be featured (Because Manhattan doesn't really seem really creative for Kingdom Hearts, unless there are a few new additions). Maybe, they were contemplating to put them in a future Kingdom Hearts. Oh, and my friend just recently beat the story to Kingdom Hearts 2 and he said that once you see the ending, you will know for sure that there will be a Kingdom Hearts 3. So, anything can happen

Shara> Thank you
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
"For me to poop on!" - Triumph the insult comic dog
posted @ Fri, Apr 7, 2006 5:59:57 pm EDT from 69.234.6.13

Hudson's more poignant lines.. "what is it with you humans?" . "nothing's real till you've named it .. given it limits"

*wonders what it would be like if Humans followed this Gargoyle way*
starlioness
posted @ Fri, Apr 7, 2006 4:35:16 pm EDT from 70.58.67.109

Shara> "Pay a man enough... and he'll walk barefoot into hell."
Battle Beast - [Canada]
that is all I will say.
posted @ Fri, Apr 7, 2006 3:49:50 pm EDT from 198.53.28.99

My favorite quote when taken out of context:

Elisa: Wouldn't you rather have me?
Demona: Always.

78 days left until The Gathering 2006 in Valencia, California!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2006]
"Between you and me, I really don't think she knows where she's going at all." - Genesis
posted @ Fri, Apr 7, 2006 12:45:58 pm EDT from 24.106.128.24

Thanks everyone. This will be really helpful for my project. I'll bring it to the gathering with me.

warcrafter>Again sorry about that. They will go out tomorrow.
---The joys of working on an online project is having to do most of the work--- ;-)
Shara - [jeanie54_2000@yahoo.com]
posted @ Fri, Apr 7, 2006 12:31:02 pm EDT from 209.178.145.48

Hi Roy! Believe it or not, I've been thinking of you lately. In part because of my thinking about "Kingdom Hearts" and the fact that you represent one of the very few links between "Gargoyles" and Square. But also, my fiance and I have been watching a lot of "Thundercats" lately, so I've had lots of opportunity to appreciate your mentor's craft.

Can you tell us anything about your new project? Any chance we'll get to see it stateside?
Demonskrye
posted @ Fri, Apr 7, 2006 11:20:31 am EDT from 209.6.250.47

Christine> Thanks Christine, I only asked because I have been thinking about sitting down and writing a fanfic of my own that would involve a son of demona and goliath, and maybe a clone of angela later on. I just wanted to make sure other people have done this theme before besides you because I was worried someone might think I was ripping you off (by the way, Jericho was cool idea, even if he's seriously crazy, lol. same goes for Ventura, evil angie, mahahaha!). Anywho, I'll follow proper fanfic procedure and whatnot, I've already thought up a name and origin story for my character and hope to get him on paper soon. P.S. wow, thats how Godiva was born, thats so funny! have a good day.

Everyone> I was watching the episode the Cage the other day and I was thinking, can Mutates have kids? I would assume that they still possess their human reproductive organs, but who knows if they can safely give birth considering the nature of their mutated bodies (I hear that hybrids in real life are usually sterile as well). Even if Talon & Maggie could have kids, I doubt maggie would want to bring a mutate baby into the world, she does after all still wants to be made human again.

Fave quotes: Sevarius says, "There's gratitude for you. You give and give, and what do they do? They twist the knife in you!" Thailog says, "Don't tempt me"

Thailog, "Now I know where I get the temper" & "And spend the rest of my days playing Guardian angel to inferior humans? I don't think so"

Demona, "Jealous and paranoid!"

Thailog, "And for the record, I'm twice the gargoyle he'll ever be, Mahahaha!

Thailog says, "Stop! Do want us both to die?" "Revenge is all you've left me!," says Demona
Dragomir
Maybe my niche can be the inquisitive crazy man of the comment room? No? Okay...~Dragomir
posted @ Fri, Apr 7, 2006 10:48:13 am EDT from 134.241.91.241

Shara> Here's some of my favorite quotes.

"Oh, yeah? You and what starfleet?" - Brooklyn, Brother's Keeper
"Gone bye-bye." - Evil Future Lex, Future Tense. Actually, I like hiw whole dialogue, but I felt it was too long for re-typing here.
"Name's Griff from London, and I guess this really IS King Arthur." - Griff, Pendragon
"I was a fool to trust you!" - Brooklyn, Temptation

There's more, but way too many for one posting.

HoE> I actually hadn't thought of it that way, but you make a good point there.
King Cobra3 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Fri, Apr 7, 2006 8:14:27 am EDT from 209.239.132.143

Stormy: <Even if they never find out, it'll upset them and they'll spread the nasty to anyone they encounter that day.> But you're not responsible for other people's choices. If they do take it out on people who had nothing to do with it, it's not your fault that they're pathetically small-minded. I'm not condoning revenge, mind you. Just saying that there's no reason to feel guilty about what they might do to others.

Matt: Damn you, you took one of mine! It's okay, I have a back-up.

Shara: I've been using the following message as an AWAY Message for the longest time, simply because it'll confuse anyone who isn't familiar with Gargoyles:

Owen: "Mr. Duval is on the phone."
Xanatos: "I'll return the call later."
Owen: "Is it wise to keep the Illuminati waiting?"
Xanatos: "No, it's not. Now who needs a piggyback ride?"

But that's NOT what I want to have go in the book. I've always found this one very piognant.

"It's not shameful to be illiterate, Hudson. It's only a shame to stay that way." -Jeffrey Robbins.

Main thing that seperates humans from the rest of the animal kingdom.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Everyone decides their own fate, no matter where they're born. Words like fate, karma... it's all just an excuse for giving up if you ask me!" -Solid Snake.
posted @ Fri, Apr 7, 2006 6:08:00 am EDT from 69.174.3.196

warcrafter>ooops they never got sent out, ill get on that.
shara
posted @ Fri, Apr 7, 2006 1:39:34 am EDT from 4.246.211.55

sorry for the double post. I meant to say "received" on the first "won"
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
"For me to poop on!" - Triumph the insult comic dog
posted @ Thu, Apr 6, 2006 10:49:51 pm EDT from 69.234.6.13

Shara> I just remembered something. I never won that free copy of G S2 V1 that I supposedly won from the fan fin contest on your site. Did you ever send them out or am i screwed?
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
"For me to poop on!" - Triumph the insult comic dog
posted @ Thu, Apr 6, 2006 10:48:56 pm EDT from 69.234.6.13

The quote I USE the most from the series is from Puck inside Coldstone's body (so voiced by Michael Dorn):
"Wouldn't YOU like to know."

The quote that consistently makes me laugh, even after 10 years is from "Turf". Right after Angela says "Oh, and another thing. Stop calling me 'Angie'!" The trio says:
Brook: "Sure."
Broadway: "No problem."
Lex: "Angela it is..."
The way Thom Adcox says Lex's line is priceless. Cracks me up everytime I hear it.

Other good ones:
"Love justice and do mercy."
"What good is life without honor?"
"There is good and evil in all of us. Human and gargoyle alike."
"Feel the air currents. Use 'em like you do with your wings!" "Yeah, use the force, Lex."
"What do we do now? Use it for a planter?"
"Maybe misery loves company."
"In for a penny, in for a pound!"
"True immortality isn't about living forever, man, it's about what you do with the time you have. When all your schemeings done, what will be your legacy, Xanatos?"
"Afraid? Me? Why, all of nature trembles at my passing." "I can see why."
"Sometimes the corrupt are the first to believe someone else can be corrupted."
And of course:
"There are kindred spirits out there, but we have to find them or else we'll always be alone."
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people." -Unknown
posted @ Thu, Apr 6, 2006 10:13:00 pm EDT from 150.201.114.132

I think the quote that sticks with me the most is Goliath's.

"There's no such thing as a little vengeance."

This one sticks in my head when I'm considering doing something nasty to someone who I think deserves it. On one hand, if the person knows I did it/said it, they're going to do something back, and the cycle will perpetuate itself. Even if they never find out, it'll upset them and they'll spread the nasty to anyone they encounter that day. And finally, the time it takes planning and executing it--or letting myself run my mouth off without thinking--are both going to send me down a road that I don't think I want to be on. In the end, I can't allow myself "just a little revenge" because of where it's going to lead in the end.
Stormy
posted @ Thu, Apr 6, 2006 8:49:50 pm EDT from 142.167.213.240

King Cobra: Simply to illustrate that Demona has raised lying to an art form.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"If we're still alive in the morning, then we'll know we're not dead." -Randy Marsh.
posted @ Thu, Apr 6, 2006 8:37:51 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

Ok im putting together this project , because I have no life ;-) Actully I found it interesting. I was making a book with famous quotes from gargoyles in it. Or quotes that fans find interesting.

Everyone.. What is your favorite quote from the show and who said it?
Shara - [jeanie54_2000@yahoo.com]
posted @ Thu, Apr 6, 2006 7:48:10 pm EDT from 209.178.145.62

HoE> I can see your point, but what does 'Temptation' have to do with it?

Vinnie> I really hope you are kidding.
King Cobra3 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Thu, Apr 6, 2006 7:37:16 pm EDT from 209.239.132.3

Dragomir: If such a thing were to happen (and I do agree with Matt that it would be a big if), I think it would be a lot like what Demona did to Brooklyn. She'll tell Yama what she wants him to hear, but eventually, Yama's going to realize that Demona says one thing and means something completely different.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"If we're still alive in the morning, then we'll know we're not dead." -Randy Marsh.
posted @ Thu, Apr 6, 2006 6:56:59 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

Wow Have not seen roy in here in such a long time.
Shara - [jeanie54_2000@yahoo.com]
posted @ Thu, Apr 6, 2006 12:58:38 pm EDT from 209.178.145.217

There's a Madame Destine story that involves a clone of Angela. I just couldn't picture Anton Sevarius allowing a perfectly good DNA sample to go to waste.

78 days left until The Gathering 2006 in Valencia, California!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2006]
posted @ Thu, Apr 6, 2006 12:45:50 pm EDT from 24.106.128.24

Dragomir > I have to blame Godiva on drugs. No, really. I'd just had my tonsils out and was on liquid coedine when I wrote "Love Machine." I don't remember much else from those few days, except that I consumed a lot of orange creamsicles and watched "Priscilla, Queen of the Desert" ... which probably really WAS entirely as bizarre as it seemed to me at the time. As for your other questions, I seem to recall a few other authors who've written such characters ... but I'm not well-versed enough to name names with 100% certainty and so will hope they speak up.

Roy > hey, welcome back!
Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
posted @ Thu, Apr 6, 2006 12:18:16 pm EDT from 71.112.172.65

Dragomir> Roy used to work as an animator at the Disney studio in Japan before it was shut down. He actually worked on Gargoyles. He hasn't been around much lately, but some of us still remember him.
Phil - [p1anderson@go.com]
posted @ Thu, Apr 6, 2006 11:50:50 am EDT from 69.129.121.95

ROY! **Squees and fangirls** ^__^
Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail.com]
"Live for glory, strength and fury; play your part in the greater scheme of life and nature"
posted @ Thu, Apr 6, 2006 10:57:57 am EDT from 24.126.11.109

Harvester & Matt> I meant to say that Demona could decieve Yama into joining her, or that she could make allies more easily if she sought out gargoyles who had been exiled from their clan (bound to be a few bad eggs out there somewhere, pun intended, lol). Her most likely potential ally would be Coldsteel, the one rookery sibling whom she is still on good terms with, though I hope she meets some new gargs to join her in the comics (Fear the wrath of the Nightstone Clan! Mahahaha!). I hope Vinnie is joking about being Demonic Lover, because until now I've enjoyed reading his posts.

Demonic Lover> Uh dude, no one mentioned anything about Broadway and Angela's relationship, at all. And Alex Garg is right, Demona had no plans to kill the Vikings because she needed them to dispose of the humans dwelling within Castle wyvern for her.

Roy Sato> That is so cool, I wish I could take a trip to Japan...big fan of anime, Godzilla, and Japanese mythology and culture in general. What projects did you do back when you worked with Greg? Do you work on anime movies besides the new Final Fantasy movie? Nice to meet you by the way, I'm Dragomir, resident newbie with a bad habit of asking dumb questions, lol. (:

Christine> People probably ask you this all the time, but how did you first come up with the idea of the cyborg gargoyle temptress (pretty word for man eater) Godiva. Also, do you know of any other authors who have written stories about clones of Angela? Or long lost sons of Goliath and Demona?
Dragomir
Maybe my niche can be the inquisitive crazy man of the comment room? No? Okay...~Dragomir
posted @ Thu, Apr 6, 2006 10:23:18 am EDT from 134.241.91.5

Vinnie> Surely you can see there's a big difference between being allies and being momentarily tricked into helping someone. Yama betrayed his Clan, but he is still loyal to them and it seems that he wishes to atone and rejoin his Clan. He clearly believes that humans and gargoyles should all get along. Only being tricked by Demona would cause him to help her out, but it wouldn't last and thats not really being allied anyway.
And remember that Demona probably isn't aware of Yama either.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people." -Unknown
posted @ Thu, Apr 6, 2006 9:08:20 am EDT from 150.201.114.132

Vinnie: It's been done.

And there is one significant difference between Demona and Yama. Yama's character was strong enough to acknowledge that what he did was wrong, and did what he had to to make it right. I could see him working for the Director, but I doubt an alliance with Demona would last that long.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"There's nothing wrong with nice guys. You've gotta have someone to take advantage of." -Mel Gibson ("Payback")
posted @ Thu, Apr 6, 2006 6:56:42 am EDT from 69.174.3.196

Hello Roy, I haven't seen you around here for some time. I think the last time I saw you here you were I think you said you were working on the Final Fantasy movie.
Mr. X
posted @ Thu, Apr 6, 2006 6:29:39 am EDT from 202.154.136.91

Matt:<And just because Yama made a mistake does not make him a potential ally to Demona.>

I disagree with you there about Yama, he knows nothing about Demona. I doubt Goliath and company told his clan much about her before leaving. Yama could be easily tricked similar to what happened to Brooklyn.

:) BTW I have a small cofession to make.... I am really Demonic Lover! ;)
Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]
Fight the Nazism by supporting your local cigarette smoker!
posted @ Thu, Apr 6, 2006 4:34:22 am EDT from 69.54.209.36

Just stopping to say hi to the old gang, especially Greg.

I'm back in Japan again, but not working for Disney or Square this time. Got a chance to do a bit of animation director work this time around. Interesting theories you guys have about the KH and Disney connection, though. ;)

Anyway, hope to talk to you guys again soon.

Roy
Roy Sato
posted @ Thu, Apr 6, 2006 4:05:56 am EDT from 202.171.153.121

CrzyDemona: David Willis (ItsWalky) hangs out on the forum I moderate, The Allspark, and sadly, every single thing on that bingo card applies to the Allspark at least as much as, if not more than, here.

I ought to know...being moderator means I have to make them all play nice *siiigh*

Demona and other clans: I don't think Demona would want to destroy other clans...she knows her species has to propagate if it is to survive, and really, for her, it's more valuable to try to get the young gargoyles to come around to her way of thinking than it is to wipe out gargoyles who disagree with her (Thereby ensuring no young ones ever hatch). The Manhattan clan is different--they're supposed to be her /family/, and to her way of thinking, they have betrayed her.

I think she'd have an uneasy truce with the London clan, for example--they won't join her, but they are also pretty isolationist and aren't doing anything to stop her either, so she has no reason to harm them.
Stormy
posted @ Wed, Apr 5, 2006 9:58:52 pm EDT from 142.167.203.141

Shit, I meant "Goliath and Broadway."
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
posted @ Wed, Apr 5, 2006 9:24:36 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

Kingcobra: Don't forget that she lied her ass off through most of "Temptation." I can think of maybe two instances in that episode where she was being honest. And I doubt Puck was keeping track of gargoyle clans. He probably found humans more interesting than gargoyles, anyway.

Matt: Is that as of 1994? Because after 1996, she knew about Avalon. As for the Far East, if she doesn't know about Japan, I'd also think it unlikely that she knows of China or Korea. But 1,000 years is a long time, and the world is a small place. There's no telling where the little minx has been.

Something I've been wondering, being a music collector. What sorts of music do people suppose that the gargoyles like, if they like any? Brooklyn strikes me as the type who would really be into punk and metal. I can imagine Lexington being a fan of more progressive music, such as Yes, Brian Eno, or Radiohead. If Hudson developed a taste for any music, I think it would be Celtic. Angela strikes me as someone who would enjoy either folk, modern rock, or both. And I'm unsure on Goliath and Hudson.

But as far as I know, musical tastes were addressed in only one episode, and that was pretty vague (if I'm wrong about that estimate, someone please correct me). Brooklyn seemed to like the guitar, though.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"By now you must be worried wondering: who is me and what lies behind my art? I'm only removing broken seashells from the beach." -Ian Anderson
posted @ Wed, Apr 5, 2006 9:23:21 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

Jen -- that's hilarious! From what I've seen, it is pretty standard amond all fandoms, and, with but a couple tweaks, would apply equally well to gamers and horror fans too. We just happen to tend to play Grand Prize Turkey Cover-All Bingo 'round THESE parts :)
Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
posted @ Wed, Apr 5, 2006 9:19:07 pm EDT from 71.112.172.65

Potential for Gargoyles in a future "Kingdom Hearts"> The lengthy topic title is to make it clear that I'm not saying that there's any "Gargoyles" reference in any of the current "Kingdom Hearts" games. There isn't.

On the positive side, "Kingdom Hearts II" does show that the game's many creators are willing to broaden the scope of the game as they continue to produce sequels. Square Enix (shortly after the two companies becmae one, I think) has said that the franchise will be one of the pillars of their game output, so there will likely be more "Kingdom Hearts" in the future. There is also something of a reference to a Disney TV cartoon in "Kindgom Hearts II"; Scrooge McDuck appears in his DuckTales costume. Though Scrooge did appear in a couple of shorts (in a different costume), it is somewhat promising. You could also say that the Agrabah level, which borrows from the plot of "Return of Jafar", is a step towards "Kingdom Hearts" acknowledging the TV cartoons.

But on the other hand, I just don't know if "Gargoyles" has quite enough recognition factor to make it into the game. So far, all of the worlds based on Disney properties have drawn from Disney movies or theatrical cartoons. There's virtually no worry that someone playing the game hasn't heard of "Alice in Wonderland" or "Aladdin". But much as we wish it were otherwise, there are a lot of people out there who don't know what "Gargoyles" is. Probably the "weirdest" two worlds currently in "Kingdom Hearts" are those based on "Pirates of the Carribean" and "Nightmare Before Christmas". The former is from an extremely successful live action movie and well-known theme park ride. The latter, while a bit more of a cult favorite, is extremely popular in Japan, the original market that the first game . And unfortunately, I don't see that there's that big a "Gargoyles" fandom in Japan. There is a lot of Disney merchandise coming out Japan, some of it extremely cool, that covers a lot of characters. The Disney's Magical Collection line is especially impressive, featuring characters from Pixar films, particular black and white cartoons, one-shot shorts, the occasional direct to video, even "Kingdom Hearts" itself. But I've never seen any Japanese "Gargoyles" merchandise, which leads me to believe there isn't much market for it. Without a high recognition factor in either country and fairly limited space in each new game for new worlds, the chances for a "Gargoyles" level look rather bleak.

Of course, I'd be both happy and surprised to see "Manhattan After Dark" as a world in a "Kingdom Hearts III". I'm just not going to hold my breath waiting for it. And despite the lack of "Gargoyles", I am having a blast with "Kingdom Hearts II". My inner Disney fangirl and my inner Final Fantasy fangirl seem to be getting almost equal joy out of it.
Demonskrye
posted @ Wed, Apr 5, 2006 5:00:30 pm EDT from 209.6.250.47

DL>> "Pissed of because Goliath wouldn't let her finnish the vikings off when they had the chance."

Demona had no intention of finishing off the Vikings. Her plan was to get the gargoyles out of the castle so the Vikings could get rid of the humans within and so allow the clan to have a human-free home. Annihilating the Vikings would have, um, *ruined* that plan, not accomplished it.

And as for the rest of the post, I ask with great trepidation: What?
Alex Garg - [<-- Frappr Gargoyles Fans]
Ow.
posted @ Wed, Apr 5, 2006 4:50:34 pm EDT from 216.145.68.246

*blinks*

Well, that was interesting.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people." -Unknown
posted @ Wed, Apr 5, 2006 4:29:36 pm EDT from 150.201.114.132

OK, SO youve been arguing about the episode Sanctuary. Thats nice. king Cobra,
Very good on Threesome. lets Argue about any ep or character. Shall we?

#1Demona, garg-girl with issues with humans, especially with Elisa maza. Pissed of because Goliath wouldn't let her finnish the vikings off when they had the chance. One of the most freaquent question that my friends at school ask is why she can't just forgive, forgett, and heal inside? #1 answer: She is a heartless garg that soooo consumed by pride honor and justice for her, only for her kind.

#2 Broadway+Angela? Why not Angela+Brokkln? Jeez! There is nothing wrong with broadway being with Angela! Soooooooo what if he is just a little over a few kilos? Mostly everyone thinks that Angela should be with the super hott Brooklyn. Hey, that girl hadd a choice and i think she made an exelent choice with broadway. Don't get me wrong on this, if Angela went with Lex before HE WAS GAY (thanx to Greg), A guy that is good with computers and high technology is also good.
Demonic lover
posted @ Wed, Apr 5, 2006 4:04:14 pm EDT from 66.205.162.11

Dragomir> We don't know if Ishimura is the largest Clan. Greg has said that in 1996 Ishimura, London, Loch Ness, Pukhan, Xanadu, and New Olympus are all "full Clans". Any of them could be the largest Clan.

And just because Yama made a mistake does not make him a potential ally to Demona. I highly doubt he would approve of her goals and methods. He was raised in Ishimura and approves of the close ties to humans. In fact, his whole plan was to help expose gargoyles to humans as a step in bringing them together.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people." -Unknown
posted @ Wed, Apr 5, 2006 4:02:23 pm EDT from 150.201.114.132

I've always been of the opinion that any clan of gargoyles Demona came across would've been discovered and smashed by the children of Canmore(The Hunter's), influenced subtly by the Weird Sisters to increase Demona's rage at humanity. After all if Demona had befriended a gargoyle clan for very long in the past thousand years she might not have been as useful to the Sisters or the Archmage.
Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]
Fight the Naziy supporting your local cigarette smoker!
posted @ Wed, Apr 5, 2006 3:59:21 pm EDT from 69.54.209.24

I just put my music video up on Youtube. A few months back, I compiled clips together of various villains from the animated medium to the song "Sympathy For the Devil", and I think it came out quite well, especially for my first (and so far only) attempt. I will of course be submitting it to the Gathering's Music Video Contest.

You can see the vid on here:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2EpPbfMqfAc

And while I'm at it, shameless plug for the Gathering's Music Video contest. Siren, I know you have a bunch of them. Anyone else who has made some or is thinking about it, show us what you got. Music videos are awesome things.

http://www.gatheringofthegargoyles.com/g2006/music-vids.html
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
Each year, the Rainforest is responsible for over three thousand deaths from accidents, attacks or illnesses. There are over seven hundred things in the Rainforest that cause cancer. Join the fight now and help stop the Rainforest before it's too late.
posted @ Wed, Apr 5, 2006 3:45:00 pm EDT from 65.33.202.237

Picked up my copy of the Previews catalogue last week (the April issue) and went through it last night, ordering the various monthly comics, graphic novels, and a magazine that'll be released in June. Was very cool to see the Gargoyles listing under Amaze Ink/Slave Labor Graphics' selections. Not only did it get spotlighted with a "Certified Cool" focus, it also got a half-page ad. It's also good for purposes of comparison that they included both the preview coloration of issue #1's cover in the main listing, as well as the final colors in the ad.

Is Haunted Mansion bi-monthly as well? If so, it looks like it and Gargoyles will share even months, with Tron and Wonderland releases during the odd months.

It's like, now it's for real, y'know? Now that I've effectively bought it.
Kris - [Ontario, Canada]
posted @ Wed, Apr 5, 2006 3:12:29 pm EDT from 24.137.192.172

Matt> Thanks man, good to know I contributred something useful for once, lol. I agree that Demona probably knew about the remaining European Clans like in London, but chose to leave them be. I personally think she would regard them as cowards for not doing their part to destroy "the human menace." She would also DESPISE the Ishimura Clan for coexisting with humans, or at least be shocked and apalled at the idea of them having lived together for so long without killing eachother. She may try to "help them see the light," but considering how great their numbers are, I doubt she'd take the risk of getting captured or making an enemy of what I believe is supposed to be the largest living gargoyle clan currently in existence.

I think she would try to make allies where she could find them, picking up rogues and outcast gargoyles if she could, such as the self exiled Yama or at least someone like him (there's a black sheep in every clan). She would like the attitude the Mayan Gargs have toward humans, but an alliance with them would be unlikely because as you said, they are too isolated and limited in their thinking. Plus, the Mayans only want to protect their trees, not wipe out all humanity. I still question the probability of the existence of a Scottish Gargoyle Clan Demona somehow missed, the Loch Ness Clan. I know this info comes from Weisman himself, but I would think Scotland would be the one place on earth Demona would have looked over from top to bottom, no way she'd leave unless she knew for certain she was the only Scottish garg left. I can believe her overlooking the other clans scattered across the globe, but not the ones living in her own home country, she had more than enough time to check out all of Loch Ness.

Now that Angela has spilled the beans about the other clans, I suspect Demona may attempt to seek the ones she didn't know about out and see if she can rally at least a little support for her cause. Though I also agree she wanted to find gargs of her own Scottish ancestry, hence the creation of the clones and her hatred for the Manhattan Clan for not seeing things her way. I would LOVE to see Demona's conversations with the Manhattan Clan during her stay in the labyrinth, maybe we'll see a flash back in the comics. I imagine Hudson would state his disappointment in her, seeing as that he was once her mentor, and Brooklyn probably spent his time fuming at her. Goliath and Angela probably spent their time to reason with her about humanity, and in Angela's case, tell of their adventures on the skiff.
Dragomir
"Don't hate me because I'm devious," Demona cues as she strikes an enticing pose for the audience, evoking jealous glares from the other contestants
posted @ Wed, Apr 5, 2006 3:09:35 pm EDT from 71.192.76.212

CrzyDemona > Woot, BINGO! Where do I collect my prize?

<< I'm wondering if Thailog was telling the truth when he said that Demona knew all along who Angela was. >>

Thailog and Demona were working with Sevarius, and he found out who Angela was in "Monsters." So it's not difficult to guess how Thailog and Demona found out she was Goliath's daughter.

79 days left until The Gathering 2006 in Valencia, California!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2006]
posted @ Wed, Apr 5, 2006 12:56:24 pm EDT from 24.106.128.24

Dinotopia: I am one of those who loved the books. Bought the three he did, and read one that Alan Dean Foster wrote (it was pretty decent). Didn't read the other spin-offs. HATED the miniseries, and found it amusing for the two episodes of the TV series, they didn't have the same actors for the main characters. I prefer not to think of the TV aspects, they taint an otherwise great concept.

Demona's clan knowledge: I'm going with the idea she was familiar with the London clan, and I agree pretty much with Matt has said. She may not have known about the Eastern clans because I picture her staying within the European area for the most part. I doubt anyone knew of the South American clan until the Tour, simply because they were in a pretty remote area to begin with. So what Demona has said was true in respect to her experiences. Now, because I'm sure Angela may have spoken a little about the other clans, she knows about them, but still wants her own clan, a group to return "home" to. Hence the clones.
Asatira
posted @ Wed, Apr 5, 2006 12:11:05 pm EDT from 24.214.68.215

CrzyDemona> Thats hilarious. Some of those seem right out of this Room! Hahahaa. I hope someone brings that bingo card up again next time a big argument starts in here. Maybe it'll help diffuse the situation.

Dragomir> You made a good point about Angela telling Demona about the Clans she encountered.

I think after "Sanctuary" Demona starting putting things together and figured out her daughter must've come from Avalon. Obviously Demona had to be aware of Avalon's existence, and when she arrives in Paris with no memory of how she got there in a boat with Oberon's head on the prow I'm sure she had her suspicions. Then a month or two later when Goliath arrives with an unfamiliar gargoyle she must've started thinking "Goliath came from Avalon too, maybe thats where he picked up that new gargoyle." Finally, when Sevarius told Demona that Angela was her daughter she had to know that her daughter was not a thousand years old so she had to come from somewhere where time passes more slowly or she time traveled to the future. But I think at that point Demona must've figured that the Clan's eggs must've been taken to Avalon. So, I think she figured out about the Avalon Clan shortly before "The Reckoning", if not, Angela clearly informed her of them later.

Part of me wonders, however, if Goliath would dissuade the Clan from telling Demona too much else. Would he want her to know about the other Clans? It makes we really think about how interesting those conversations must've been while Demona was locked up. I would've loved to watch her nights with Hudson or Brooklyn esspecially, and Goliath and Angela of course.

So, heres the list of the Clans that survived to 1994, and whether I think she knows of them. I encourage you guys to make your own list cuz this is interesting.

London - Yes.
Loch Ness - No.
New Olympus - No.
Avalon - No.
Mayan - No.
Ishimuran - No.
Xanadu - Maybe.
Korean - Maybe.

Todd> I disagree with you about her wanting to destroy the other Clans. Even if they don't join her cause I think as long as they were not actively against her she could get over it. It seems the London Clan, unlike the Manahattan Clan, had stopped protecting the local humans and seemed to have a neutral opinion of them. I think Demona could learn to live with this and let them be. I don't think she'd want to join them though because they were not behind her goals at all. Plus she just isolates herself too much.
The Ishimurans though I think she WOULD have an issue with. She'd probably start by argueing with them and eventually mess something up trying to "help" them for their "own good".
I think she'd love fighting the humans wih the Mayan Clan but their goals are too narrow and they are too isolated for her taste.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people." -Unknown
posted @ Wed, Apr 5, 2006 11:30:16 am EDT from 150.201.114.132

Maybe the Weird Sister's spell that erased Demona's and MacBeth's memmories of Avalon weakened and Demona was able to recall some of what happened on the island. Hell, the Weird Sisters may have made the forgetfulness spell weak on purpose as a parting shot to Goliath and company, hoping Demona would cause more trouble for them later once she figured out who Angela was. Faye hate loosing, especially to mortals.
Dragomir
Trust is hard to build, but easy to destroy
posted @ Wed, Apr 5, 2006 9:52:50 am EDT from 134.241.91.247

It looks like David Willis, author of the web comic "Shortpacked" has been lurking here in S8.

... or maybe all fandoms wank the same? >:) Click the link or cut and paste.

http://www.shortpacked.com/comics/20060405bingo.png
Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson - [<---- Click for HUMOR!]
"Well, my days of taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal, Firefly
posted @ Wed, Apr 5, 2006 9:19:38 am EDT from 68.66.245.3

Greg W. truly is a god. Admiration for the man aside, he created a entire amazing world that, in turn, gave way to places like this comment room and events like the Gathering. Not to mention the incredible tapestry of art that is Gargoyles itself.

Demona> I think she knows about the MAJORITY of the clans. She might even know somehow about the Avalon clan. She claimed to know every 'remaining Gargoyle' but acted like she didn't know who Angela was. I think she would've done some digging in-between 'Sanctuary' and 'The Reckoning'. Maybe Puck told her everything.

But then this is just my opinion.
King Cobra3 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Wed, Apr 5, 2006 8:51:37 am EDT from 209.239.132.232

I'm one person who finds it very unlikely that Demona had met the other clans out there; knowing her, she'd have tried to bring them over to her cause, and killed them if they'd refused. Neither of which, we know, has happened to any of the other gargoyle clans out there. (Of course, maybe her attempts to kill Goliath and his clan after they refused to help her carry out her genocidal schemes were based more specifically on the fact that it was her own clan, and her own ex-mate, that said "No" to her, so we don't know for certain if she'd do the same to gargoyle clans that she didn't have close emotional ties to.)
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Wed, Apr 5, 2006 7:54:43 am EDT from 4.244.213.78

Greg Weisman> We're not worthy, we're not worthy!!!
Dragomir
"Don't hate me because I'm devious," Demona cues as she strikes an enticing pose for the audience, evoking jealous glares from the other contestants
posted @ Wed, Apr 5, 2006 6:49:33 am EDT from 71.192.76.212

Kaylle> Ditto

Matt> You met the author of Dinotopia? And he drew pictures for you? Oh, you lucky "censored." Lol, I agree that Demona is probably unaware of the other gargoyle clans, judging from what we've seen and heard so far. However, she probably knows about all the clans Angela met on her world tour since they spent so much time together back in the Labyrinth. I too find it extremely strange that Demona has not met any of these other gargoyle clans yet. She's over one thousand years old after all, it just seems so hard to believe that she would not have encountered at least one or two other clans in her lifetime, even if by accident.

I believe that she was lying when she said she knew every living gargoyle as well, just playing her part in the scheme she hatched with Thailog. The only issue I have with the existence of a Loch Ness Clan is that there is no way in hell that Demona could not have met them, as was stated before, she would know if all the gargoyles of her "motherland" were destroyed or not. I can believe her not meeting the New Olympus Clan because of the cloak that hides their island, and perhaps even the Ishimuras since they live all they live in Japan and not Europe (though she could have easily made her way there by boat or later plane if she had wanted). But I can't believe that she somehow missed the last surviving Scottish Clan, she had both the time and the determination to find them. Her lonliness and desire to meet gargoyles who understand her way of thinking is almost as great as her raw hatred for all things human.

Harvester> Hhhhmmm, gold coins you say? Hmmm....sorry dead horse, but with that kind of capital I could buy a live horse!
Dragomir
"Don't hate me because I'm devious," Demona cues as she strikes an enticing pose for the audience, evoking jealous glares from the other contestants
posted @ Wed, Apr 5, 2006 6:39:40 am EDT from 71.192.76.212

Matt: I'm wondering if Thailog was telling the truth when he said that Demona knew all along who Angela was. Because if he was being honest, I'm wondering if she was thinking that the rest of the eggs might have survived as well. Granted, she probably didn't know how they might have, so she wouldn't have known about the Avalon Clan until after she'd spoken with Angela. But I'm sure she was puzzling over it. If, of course, Thailog was telling the truth. I'm such a mistrustful bastard lately.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"But my dreams are for dreaming, and best left that way. And my zero to your power of ten equals nothing at all." -Ian Anderson
posted @ Wed, Apr 5, 2006 6:30:56 am EDT from 69.174.3.196

Yeah, the Dinotopia books were awesome. I loved them so much. I met James Gurney (the author and artist of the books) a couple times and got him to sign all my books. He drew little dinosaurs for me too, really cool. Anyway, yeah the miniseries was horrible, but I still treasure the books. Breathe deep, seek peace!
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people." -Unknown
posted @ Wed, Apr 5, 2006 1:15:08 am EDT from 150.201.114.132

Dinotopia> For what it's worth, Dinotopia was a beautiful book (see www.dinotopia.com) before it was a miniseries/TV show. It spawned a few sequels and a bunch of juvenile novels that didn't quite live up to the original, but the miniseries was downright awful. Those of us who loved the book were rather horrified by what ABC did to it... I suppose lots of us around here are familiar with that feeling ;).
Kaylle - [kaylle at ladyavalon.com]
www.GargoylesDVD.com
posted @ Tue, Apr 4, 2006 11:21:01 pm EDT from 18.244.0.88

True, Demona may not know of any of the Clans besides the Manhattan and Labyrinth Clans, but I have a hard time believing she isn't aware of the London Clan. They just seem too close, too big and too unsecretive for her not to take notice in 900 years. I dunno. I have this feeling they are aware of her existence too.
I believe Demona when she said told Goliath that the Hunters wiped out the last Clan in Scotland. I don't think she is aware of the Loch Ness Clan.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people." -Unknown
posted @ Tue, Apr 4, 2006 9:55:22 pm EDT from 150.201.114.132

Heh, Oberon has an Ego as big as the Eyrie Building. I suppose We can allow Greg W. to grow one like that too ;-) Just Kidding Greg, Like I said before, you created the Gargoyles universe, so in a way, you are a God of sorts.
Wingless
posted @ Tue, Apr 4, 2006 9:14:05 pm EDT from 70.27.173.206

Greg, Greg, Greg, we don't want your ego getting too big ;)
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
Each year, the Rainforest is responsible for over three thousand deaths from accidents, attacks or illnesses. There are over seven hundred things in the Rainforest that cause cancer. Join the fight now and help stop the Rainforest before it's too late.
posted @ Tue, Apr 4, 2006 8:54:26 pm EDT from 65.33.202.237

Greg W. - OH! Oh... sorry, boss. I mean, um. ALL HAIL, GREG!

... I'd bow, but I don't think I could keep a straight face. ;) Welcome back.
Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson - [<---- 10th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Gargoyles protect. It is our nature. Our purpose. To lose that is to be corrupt, empty... lifeless. " -- Goliath
posted @ Tue, Apr 4, 2006 8:52:31 pm EDT from 68.66.245.3

Patrick: You and me both, mein fruend.

I'm not denying that there's little truth in what Demona was saying. It's clear that she probably doesn't know about Ishimura, either, or if she does, she's in denial of them (Demona doesn't strike me as a sushi-lover, anyway). Sadly, that part of my post didn't come out the way I wanted it to because I hadn't properly read Matt's, because I'm so exhausted I'm having trouble lifting my arms. I think I'm still suffering from the time change.

So with that, I shall say good night.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"But my dreams are for dreaming, and best left that way. And my zero to your power of ten equals nothing at all." -Ian Anderson
posted @ Tue, Apr 4, 2006 8:26:11 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

Greg & Jen - Hey, if they want to call me a god, LET 'EM! You big spoilsports. ;)
Greg Weisman
Greg Weisman
posted @ Tue, Apr 4, 2006 7:49:59 pm EDT from 72.25.64.98

I agree as well that Demona's claim that she knows every remaining gargoyle should be taken with a grain of salt. For one thing, she may very well believe that she, Goliath's clan, and Thailog are the only gargoyles in the world; there's no concrete evidence that she ever encountered any of the other clans out there. (Also, we find out later on in "The Reckoning" that Demona allowed herself to be captured as part of the Clones scheme, which gives one all the more reason for not taking anything that she said during that scene at face value.)

Also, Demona's lied before in the series; remember in "Awakening" how she claimed that she'd been under the Magus's spell of stone sleep for the past thousand years.
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Tue, Apr 4, 2006 7:47:58 pm EDT from 4.244.209.7

Everyone needs to remember, that just because a character says something, it doesn't mean it's true. Sometimes a character will say something without knowing what the hell they're talking about.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
Each year, the Rainforest is responsible for over three thousand deaths from accidents, attacks or illnesses. There are over seven hundred things in the Rainforest that cause cancer. Join the fight now and help stop the Rainforest before it's too late.
posted @ Tue, Apr 4, 2006 7:38:23 pm EDT from 65.33.202.237

Someone mentioned "Dinotopia". Thank you for reminding me of that incredibly bizarre mini-series. I must say, I found intriguing the prospect of a land so cut off from the rest of the world that a person able to quote rock lyrics would instantly be regarded as a font of philisophical wisdom. I could easily become a god in such a world.

I think Demona was either mistaken or lying when she said she knew every remaining gargoyle. She's prone to irrational statements and hyperbole; the credibility of anything she says must always be carefully evaulated.

80 days left until The Gathering 2006 in Valencia, California!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2006]
"Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? Caught in a landslide, no escape from reality. Open your eyes, look up to the skies and see." - Queen
posted @ Tue, Apr 4, 2006 7:10:06 pm EDT from 70.229.209.66

Forum post> That's his opinion and I'll respect him for putting it out there. I didn't read any replies to his commentary, but I think that if ANY Gargoyles fans were in there, he'd receive a giant piece of mind.

And Greg B., regarding your signature, maybe you'd like to help me in my cause to ban the odorless, colorless, and potentially deadly chemical dihydrogen monoxide as an illegal substance.

(The common abbreviation for dihydrogen monoxide is H2O, by the way ;) )
Lord GargFan
Ban Dihydrogen Monoxide Now! Then stop the rainforests!
posted @ Tue, Apr 4, 2006 7:02:25 pm EDT from 67.185.229.228

Matt: D'oh! Yeah, forgot about them. It's been a long day.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"When Jesus was president, he ate babies all the time. Or Satan. One of them ate babies."
posted @ Tue, Apr 4, 2006 6:06:26 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

I'm pretty sure Greg has said that Demona is not aware of New Olympus or the Clan there. Her line about the Hunters wiping out the last Clan in Scotland makes it seem like she doesn't know about the Loch Ness Clan either.

And Dragomir, the New Olympus Clan probably has its roots in gargoyles from all over the Mediterranean World, just like the other inhabitants. Greece, Italy, Egypt, Persia, etc. are all possiblities.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people." -Unknown
posted @ Tue, Apr 4, 2006 5:46:13 pm EDT from 150.201.114.132

Actually, I could be wrong on the second thing. Has Greg ever indicated if Demona's been to New Olympus, or knows of it?
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
posted @ Tue, Apr 4, 2006 5:04:11 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

Dragomir: I think the main reason that Demona chose Coldstone was because he had been a member of the Wyvern Clan, and so she figured she could probably turn him against Goliath and the others with little effort.

And Demona said that the Hunter wiped out the last gargoyle clan in Scotland. She might not know every living gargoyle, as she claimed, but I think she'd know the gargoyle status of the Motherland.

And it's dead. It doesn't need them. Will Charon not accept coins in the sockets?
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"When Jesus was president, he ate babies all the time. Or Satan. One of them ate babies."
posted @ Tue, Apr 4, 2006 5:02:48 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

Thankyou very much for the listings Matt, you're just a helpful guy by nature aren't you? Lol, seriously though, thanks for the listings. I must have confused New Camelot for New Avalon, though that would be a neat concept, the descendants of the original Avalon Gargoyles spreading their wings to colonize elsewhere beyond the magic shores of Avalon. I wonder what the New Olympus gargoyles look like, they are of Greek origin correct? Probably dress in robes like the other New Olympians. I wonder what Chinese gargs look like? It never ceased to amaze me just how many different varieties of gargoyles there were on the show and how they all had their own unique appearance, yet could still be easily identified as gargoyles.

I'de like to see a New Moray Clan, I loved those guys! Especially the blue lizard faced gargoyle with the gill like ears and the grey, horned one with the breast plate. Though of course, I know that they were all killed by the Hunter thanks to Demona's rash actions. That little green dude with the beak and fan shaped wings was cool as well, wish they had been given names or at least more lines. I'de like to see more flashbacks to the time in which Demona and MacBeth were still allies, if only to see the Moray Clan in action! It would be interesting if Demona tried to revive one of these guys like she did with Coldstone for use in a new scheme, not likely to happen, but possible because if the much older remains of the Wyvern Clan could last for that long, surely something must be left of the Morays. Though on second thought, it would be sad to see them suffer such a fate, plus its been done already.

Anywho, I'm off to reclaim my dead horse's eyes from Harvester, fare well! Hi Ho Dead Horse, AWAY!!! Gallops into the sunset. (:
Dragomir
"Don't hate me because I'm devious," Demona cues as she strikes an enticing pose for the audience, evoking jealous glares from the other contestants
posted @ Tue, Apr 4, 2006 2:57:01 pm EDT from 71.192.76.212

King Cobra3> Greg has said at one point there were gargoyle clans just about everywhere. I don't know if there was on in Germany, but it seems likely. There was definitly an Irish Clan long ago, the Hound of Ulster gargoyle beast that Cuchullain befriended was a member of this Clan.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people." -Unknown
posted @ Tue, Apr 4, 2006 12:54:29 pm EDT from 150.201.114.132

oops, I meant "City" Gargoyles.
starlioness
posted @ Tue, Apr 4, 2006 12:07:17 pm EDT from 70.58.67.109

Matt: Mountain Gargoyles eh? well, maybe they're not "city" people :)
starlioness
posted @ Tue, Apr 4, 2006 12:06:01 pm EDT from 70.58.67.109

Matt> Thanks for the clan listings. Very interesting. :-)

I myself would've liked to see a Germany and/or Ireland clans (my family tree stems from both locales) but then that's just me.
King Cobra3 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Tue, Apr 4, 2006 11:18:32 am EDT from 209.239.132.123

Dragomir> The New Olympus Clan isolates themselves in the mountains of the island. The Loch Ness Clan was aware Big Daddy was missing but were either preoccupied or didn't know what to do about it, I don't think they were aware Goliath and Co were in the area. Loch Ness is a big lake afterall. I never said anything about a New Avalon Clan, there is only one Clan on Avalon and there won't be another one.

In 1996 there are 10 Gargoyle Clans:

The London Clan. London, England.
The Ishimura Clan. Ishimura, Japan.
The Mayan Clan. ChacIxChel, Guatemala.
The Korea Clan. Pukhan, Korea.
The Xanadu Clan. Xanadu, China.
The Loch Ness Clan. Loch Ness, Scotland.
The New Olympian Clan. Mount Thanatos, New Olympus.
The Avalon Clan. Oberon's Palace, Avalon.
The Manhattan Clan. New York, U.S.A.
The Labyrinth Clan. New York, U.S.A.

By 2198, two more Clans have been formed:

The Camelot Clan. New Camelot, Antarctica.
The New Wyvern Clan. Wyvern, Scotland.

After 2198, two more Clans will be formed:

The Liberty Clan. Queen Florence Island, Canada.
The Notre Dame Clan. Paris, France.

Hope that helps.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people." -Unknown
posted @ Tue, Apr 4, 2006 10:29:02 am EDT from 150.201.114.132

New Olympians> Boreas did call gargoyles a "noble race". And Greg has said that the gargoyle Clan are considered citizens of New Olympus, but they are very isolated. They seem to me to b the most likely to be the most traditional of Gargoyles, not only do I doubt they use names, but it wouldn't surprise me if they have a very narrow view of what they protect, like just their Clan and rookery.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people." -Unknown
posted @ Tue, Apr 4, 2006 9:53:48 am EDT from 150.201.114.132

To Everyone> Dragomir walks up to his beloved dead horse and says, "sorry girl, I can't keep you....HEY! Harvester! Come back with my dead horse's eyes!" Dragomir gives chase with blind dead horse in tow...

Kythera: "cry baby? uh, don't think so...but thanks for playing!," Regardless, Dragomir bows his head to his former web adversary and vows to be more respectful from now on, not wanting to disturb her or the others any longer. As they say in Dinotopia, "Breath Deep, Seek Peace," lol, I used to love those books.

Matt> Wow, I had no idea there were so many more gargoyle clans left to be introduced. Korea, Loch Ness, New Olympus, New Avalon...They're everywhere! Goliath, Angela, and Elisa visited Loch Ness and New Olympus during their world tour, find it hard to believe they got so close to them and yet failed to actually encounter these new gargoyles. I don't think the New Olympian Gargoyles would need to hide on New Olympus, seeing as that Goliath and Angela were allowed to walk freely and were not singled out for abuse unless they aided Elisa (I can't stand that Helios guy, loved seeing Maza clobber him). Maybe the reason we didn't see them is because they live away from the city and choose to dwell in the forests or mountains, like gargoyles did before humans came in with their castles and cities, or perhaps they are simply rare on New Olympus.

As for the Loch Ness Clan, how in blazes did they miss them when they were able to meet Nessy and Big Daddy, as well as Traverse most of the area around the Loch? Can't wait to meet these guys if they do exist though, I love the Scottish Gargoyles and had until now thought that the Manhattan and Avalon Clans were the last Scottish gargs left. I assume that the New Avalon Clan is an offshoot of the Old Avalon Clan, formed by Avalon gargs seeking their place in the world like Angela, or by their descendants.

Christine: No worries, thanks anyway though, I always welcome your opinions Christine. Hope you'll be able to find time for more garg fanfics soon, good luck!
Dragomir
Maybe my niche can be the inquisitive crazy man of the comment room? No? Okay...~Dragomir
posted @ Tue, Apr 4, 2006 9:52:14 am EDT from 134.241.91.49

You know I kind of see Dragomirs point even if I don't agree with some of his opinions myself. ;) But while Greg W. is the creator god of the gargoyles universe he is still subject to the whims of they who seat above in the Shadows of Disney. :) And the Almighty Shadows of Disney get the final say on what Greg W. adds to his creation. ;)

Although really if Disney decides they want something they could just order their puppet Greg W. to do whatever they want. Example: Making Broadway jealous of Angela by introducing a new gargoyle.
Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]
Peace!
posted @ Tue, Apr 4, 2006 6:48:25 am EDT from 69.54.209.95

Starlioness: I was given the impression from that episode that whatever bad feelings the inhabitants had towards Goliath and Angela stemmed from the fact that they were "human lovers." I would think that the New Olympian gargoyles and the other inhabitants would have an understanding. Gargoyles also know what it's like to be persecuted.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"When Jesus was president, he ate babies all the time. Or Satan. One of them ate babies."
posted @ Tue, Apr 4, 2006 6:43:15 am EDT from 69.174.3.196

The Winged Vampire-- Believe me, it's tempting. ;] But no, that's not usually the norm around here. It seems like we're at a peak time of tension right now. I dunno if it's the phase of the moon or the alignment of the planets, or what. Hopefully it'll pass, and sooner rather than later. I even admit I'm full of more snark and vitriol than usual... it's starting to worry me. o.O Or maybe I just need a new chew toy...
Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail.com]
"Live for glory, strength and fury; play your part in the greater scheme of life and nature"
posted @ Tue, Apr 4, 2006 4:14:23 am EDT from 24.126.11.109

hmmm so, that's what Violet and Indigo are..

and Harvester, judging form the episode.it doesn't seem they take other species very lightly... I could be wrong though.

is Cagney missing his ear in my avatar? *wonders*
Starlioness
posted @ Tue, Apr 4, 2006 3:34:57 am EDT from 70.58.67.109

Matt: my guess would be New Olympus as well, I thought Loch Ness for a moment there, but it's possible they have names as well..

speaking of which, who named Fu-Dog? maybe it would give us a clue if they used names or not *shrugs*
Starlioness
posted @ Tue, Apr 4, 2006 3:30:39 am EDT from 70.58.67.109

Winged Vampire > I'd tell you that, but it'd be fibbing ... :)
Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
posted @ Tue, Apr 4, 2006 3:04:51 am EDT from 70.56.94.10

I thought Kyt was going to break into super dino mode for a minute there. When people fight over something worth fighting over, that will be the day. It's these fights over stupid $h!+ that make it not worth coming here. Tell me this doesn't happen on a regular basis, please.
The Winged Vampire - [The_Winged_Vampire@hotmail.com]
Cricket!? Nobody understands Cricket! You have to know what a crumpet is to understand Cricket!
posted @ Tue, Apr 4, 2006 2:27:18 am EDT from 205.238.195.95

*Imitates Comic Book Guy*
Worst comment room fight ever.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people." -Unknown
posted @ Tue, Apr 4, 2006 1:13:41 am EDT from 150.201.114.132

JJ-- Agreed. I'm done. No further comments from me unless provoked. ;P

And no, I have no tact.
Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail.com]
"Live for glory, strength and fury; play your part in the greater scheme of life and nature"
posted @ Tue, Apr 4, 2006 12:55:37 am EDT from 24.126.11.109

*sigh*
It's stuff like this that pushes me away from here.

Let it go means let it go. And that goes to many of you who think some *else* is provoking you.

Remember a lot of us have problems with tact -- some of us have admitted this failing in the past. And a lot of us were untactful last week, and even now. We are Comic Book Guys (and Gals). Frankly, we are not a pleasant bunch to be around much of the time.
JJ Gregarius
Like the man said, "There are no problems; only solutions!"
posted @ Mon, Apr 3, 2006 11:56:12 pm EDT from 206.57.92.155

Dragomir-- Oh don't EVEN try to make this a personal issue. DO NOT. Or else email me and we can duke it out privately. I'll be as polite with you publically as I think your own behavior merits. I'm not the one who keeps ressurrecting the same gorram dead horse and then beating it to death again in the face of all rational discussion and argument, then playing crybaby when people continue to disagree with you. You quit raising zombie equines, and I'll quit making smartass remarks. If you post in a public forum, then you risk ANYONE here making observations about your behavior, and they will not always be polite.
Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail.com]
"Live for glory, strength and fury; play your part in the greater scheme of life and nature"
posted @ Mon, Apr 3, 2006 11:10:29 pm EDT from 24.126.11.109

Dragomir -- sorry for adding an N; my bad. As for TGS, I've done a couple of stints as a guest author and it was a fun and interesting challenge (I normally am one of the world's worst shared universe and collaborative writers; I have nothing but awe and admiration for the TGS crew for being able to do it so well all these years without one single murder ... that we know of!), but as has been pointed out to me many times, I have way too much to do already.

Greg B. -- I thought the top spots in your personal pantheon were occupied by Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert, these days :)
Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
posted @ Mon, Apr 3, 2006 9:30:05 pm EDT from 71.112.172.65

MATT - Re your signature: And really small minds discuss professional wrestling! (I can't take the credit for that one, though; it comes from an old "Drabble" strip.)
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Mon, Apr 3, 2006 8:28:45 pm EDT from 4.245.17.14

There was a point when I was kind of hoping for the World Tour to wrap up, which actually was around the time that "The Green" first aired. After "Sentinel," I was getting a little impatient for them to find their way back to Manhattan. Fortunately, the month-long wait for the final handful of episodes they showed in May was (for the most part) well worth it. Hate to repeat myself and others, but man, I hope there's a Volume Two (and to some who know who they are, recognize the key verb in that sentence: HOPE).

Matt: I find it interesting that the New Olympian Clan would isolate themselves from the rest of the city's populace. Boreas at least seems to regard them as a noble race. I wonder what the rest of the island thinks.

"Rules of the Room." Hmmmm, so I see that theft, coveting, and adultery are all fair game. Yoink!

*steals the eyes from Dragomir's dead horse and runs off to find someone else's wife.*
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"When Jesus was president, he ate babies all the time. Or Satan. One of them ate babies."
posted @ Mon, Apr 3, 2006 8:26:08 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

Yeah, I agree with Jurgen about all that. I mean, he didn't love the second season. Oh well. To me the most important thing about that guy's opinion is that he wrote what he felt and while it wasn't positive the guy managed to remain respectful of the series and Greg. His opinion was well-written and somewhat understandable and overall he sounds like he was just calling it how HE saw it, not how everyone should see it. And its hard to be upset with him, he did buy the DVD.

In the search of a topic for this week, or at least a starting point, how is this. In 2006 there are ten Gargoyle Clans (Manhattan, Labyrinth, Mayan, Avalon, Loch Ness, London, New Olympus, Xanadu, Ishimura and Korean). We already know that the Mnahattan, Labyrinth, Avalon, Ishimura and London Clan all use names, and the Mayan Clan uses them for at least the Pendant Wearers. Of the other Clans (Loch Ness, New Olympus, Xanadu and Korean) which one(s) do you suspect don't use names at all in traditional gargoyle fashion? Hopefully at least one Clan will have stuck with that tradition cuz its something very gargoyle-ish. I for one think its likely the New Olympus Clan does not use names since they seem the most isolated and distanced from humans. Greg has said they isolate themselves even from the Olympians. What do you think?
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people." -Unknown
posted @ Mon, Apr 3, 2006 7:41:24 pm EDT from 150.201.114.132

MATT - I think that it would have helped if you'd put a smiley icon next to it. (That's the problem with joking and irony in print. They're so dependent on tone of voice that they have to be spoken to make sense.)
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Mon, Apr 3, 2006 7:32:01 pm EDT from 4.245.17.14

Brooksbabe: So? I mean, sure, I disagree with the poster strongly, especially about City of Stone being a pretentious melodrama, but who cares? People have different opinions, and I guess I can understand where he's coming from, sort of. I'm certainly not going to waste my time arguing over the opinions of a guy I've never heard of on a forum I've never been to. Who cares? People disagree. Hell, look at some of Greg Weisman's ranting about movies he hates, and you'll see that smart people can disagree strongly on what makes good entertainment. If he were here, or on some other forum I frequent, I'd certainly argue with him, but as is... [shrugs] Not worth my time.
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
posted @ Mon, Apr 3, 2006 4:56:27 pm EDT from 153.9.83.146

BrooksBabe> Eh, it's just his opinion. Don't let it bother you.

What does amuse me is how people love to toss the word "pretentious" around. It's not the first time I saw someone who's not a fan use it for this series.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
Each year, the Rainforest is responsible for over three thousand deaths from accidents, attacks or illnesses. There are over seven hundred things in the Rainforest that cause cancer. Join the fight now and help stop the Rainforest before it's too late.
posted @ Mon, Apr 3, 2006 4:54:09 pm EDT from 65.33.202.237

Uh, wow. Was just browsing through some of my forums, and stumbled across this.

http://bwint.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=223

I was just left completely speechless after reading it.
BrooksBabe - [<<- Clicky, clicky!]
"Why does he have to kill them to prove his point? Can't he just show them a pie chart or something?" --Tom Servo
posted @ Mon, Apr 3, 2006 4:48:08 pm EDT from 130.63.229.72

If Gargoyles can be Angels of the night, why can't Greg be a God-figuratively speaking. If you think about it, He created the Gargoyles Universe-so, from that perspective, you could consider him sort of a creative god. It's humor people, Don't take life so seriously. If you can watch Family Guy or South park-surly you can handle a bit of sarcastic humor in here.
Wingless
posted @ Mon, Apr 3, 2006 4:26:31 pm EDT from 70.27.173.206

-->Lightbulb contest<--

There are some good ones in there. What was the prize for it anyway?
The Winged Vampire - [The_Winged_Vampire@hotmail.com]
Cricket!? Nobody understands Cricket! You have to know what a crumpet is to understand Cricket!
posted @ Mon, Apr 3, 2006 4:24:34 pm EDT from 209.74.41.116

I mean, "the man rocks, nough said." Jalapena...
Dragomir
"Don't hate me because I'm devious," Demona cues as she strikes an enticing pose for the audience, evoking jealous glares from the other contestants
posted @ Mon, Apr 3, 2006 3:15:40 pm EDT from 71.192.76.212

Okay Matt, until recently I think I've done a pretty good job of behaving myself and avoiding trouble. But Kythera was unnessarily rude to me, and I haven't even said anything to her in a while now to provoke her. She doesn't like me, fine, I don't care. But I would appreciate her leaving me be from now on and to not make me out to be the main cause of all dispute in this room. I wasn't even around much last week, but if my thoughts on Demona bug you I'll stop (as long as she agrees to act like an adult as well and keep her snide remarks to herseld). I'll take what have said to heart though, I'm sorry to have troubled you dude, and I truly regret that you had to agree with Kythera for once, lol. Greg Weisman is god? Maybe...but doubt it...lol. Hope you have a nice day.

Sorry you had to intervene Christine, keep up the great writing, and I'll be good, lol. Are you going to be writing for TGS for season 4 of gargoyles?

Winged Vampire, don't know what you said, but it made me laugh and I probably deserved it, lol.

Everyone> I was watching the commentary to the beginning of the episode "Out Foxed" on DVD, and laughed my ass off when Weisman whispered "Fox is pregnant!" The rocks, nough said.
Dragomir
"Don't hate me because I'm devious," Demona cues as she strikes an enticing pose for the audience, evoking jealous glares from the other contestants
posted @ Mon, Apr 3, 2006 3:13:53 pm EDT from 71.192.76.212

Matt - Sorry, I just didn't find it funny.
Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson - [<--- Gathering of the Gargoyles]
posted @ Mon, Apr 3, 2006 2:59:06 pm EDT from 71.133.221.236

Hey folks,

We received those post-cards over the weekend. They were most appreciated. Thanks for everyone's support of the Gathering and the Gargoyles comic as well.

Went down to the local comic shop to check out the Gargoyles ad in Previews and put a pre-order in for a half-dozen copies. Buy early and buy often. It's like voting for Gargoyles! :)

Anyway, I hope to see many of you at the Gathering.

Take care,
Marty Lund - [creaturecomics@comcast.net]
posted @ Mon, Apr 3, 2006 2:38:19 pm EDT from 198.187.200.254

I have nothing funny nor constructive to add to all of this. :|

Ok, maybe I do....

Dragomir--> Kwitcherdambelliakin

'Nuff said.

Jurgan--> I'll have to take a lookat those later. Right now I am so far behind on $h!+ that it isn't even funny.
The Winged Vampire - [The_Winged_Vampire@hotmail.com]
Cricket!? Nobody understands Cricket! You have to know what a crumpet is to understand Cricket!
posted @ Mon, Apr 3, 2006 2:25:50 pm EDT from 216.37.226.184

It was a joke guys.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people." -Unknown
posted @ Mon, Apr 3, 2006 2:10:57 pm EDT from 150.201.114.132

Agreed. I love Greg too, but he's as human as the rest of us.

Actually, that's why I like him so much. Because he doesn't hover above us at cons behind a table or podium, but comes and hangs out with us, chats with us, gets to know us. He may be a special guest at the cons, but he behaves just like any one of us. Unlike other people I have met at other cons. I won't name names though.

Greg Weisman is just like any one of us. There are a great number of things he and I disagree on. Like his twenty minute speech about why "Batman Begins" sucked. ;)

Greg is my friend. Not my god.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
Each year, the Rainforest is responsible for over three thousand deaths from accidents, attacks or illnesses. There are over seven hundred things in the Rainforest that cause cancer. Join the fight now and help stop the Rainforest before it's too late.
posted @ Mon, Apr 3, 2006 1:58:36 pm EDT from 65.33.202.237

Matt: <<5. Don't be mean to Greg W. He is our god.>>

How about "Don't be mean to Greg W. He is a nice guy." He's not a god. He's human and guilty of all the same sins as the rest of us. He's funny, sweet, caring, smart, geeky, flawed and easily confused at times... and I like him that way. Let's just keep him human, please.
Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson - [<--- Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"We lived innocently as children... but like all children, we grew up" -- The Magus
posted @ Mon, Apr 3, 2006 1:52:07 pm EDT from 71.133.221.236

Happy birthday, Warcrafter.

I'd say more, but at work, and nothing to say. :p
Asatira
posted @ Mon, Apr 3, 2006 1:16:42 pm EDT from 24.214.68.215

And when Kythera and I AGREE you know we must be on to something.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people." -Unknown
posted @ Mon, Apr 3, 2006 11:29:50 am EDT from 150.201.114.132

Dragomir-- There's a statute of limitations. You've worn it out, and are driving half the room up the wall on your own. You have your own opinions and that's great... until you keep beating the horse well past it's dead. I think Matt summed it up nicely.
Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail.com]
"Live for glory, strength and fury; play your part in the greater scheme of life and nature"
posted @ Mon, Apr 3, 2006 10:46:09 am EDT from 24.126.11.109

Dragomir> "I don't understand your irrational dislike for me, seeing as that it was long since proven that I am not Demonic Lover..."
Who mentioned Demonic Lover? I don't think anyone has brought him up in weeks, esspecially in reference to you. So why you bringing that up again? The reason people are annoyed by you has nothing to do with DL and everything to do with how YOU are acting. We went over this weeks ago. We are generally nice, welcoming people in this room, but we appreciate when people follow some simple Rules of the Room:
1. Be respectful and courteous of others. Be mature.
2. Don't Feed the trolls.
3. Don't be a troll.
4. Use the Ask Greg Archives or the people in the Room as a resource for answering questions before asking Greg or simply assuming facts without evidence.
5. Don't be mean to Greg W. He is our god.
6. Have a cookie.

There may be other rules, but those are a start.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people." -Unknown
posted @ Mon, Apr 3, 2006 10:31:16 am EDT from 150.201.114.132

Anthology update -- I'd like to thank everyone who sent in stories for the Grimorum Anthology! I began reading the submissions last night and am very pleased so far. I know a lot of folks were nervous about this particular topic, which didn't seem to offer as much on the surface as did the Eye and the Gate, but you're rising to the challenge admirably!

Art folks -- remember, the deadline for interior illustrations is the 15th! Do your taxes and send me pics! In that order, if you really must.

Dragonmir -- in all kindness, here ... let it go, okay? Some of us are just gonna rub each other's fur the wrong way. Best thing to do in that case is quit rubbing.
Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
posted @ Mon, Apr 3, 2006 8:36:07 am EDT from 70.56.94.10

Warcrafter: Happy Birthday!

Jurgan: Thanks for the link. Some of those were pretty good. Greg seemed to take the joke against him rather well.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"A good compromise leaves everybody mad." -Bill Watterson.
posted @ Mon, Apr 3, 2006 6:56:19 am EDT from 69.174.3.196

No gargoyles in Kingdom Hearts II? Aw man, thats sad, but I'm sure the new game will still be loads of fun, even though I would have loved to fight alongside Goliath against the Heartless...
Dragomir
"Don't hate me because I'm devious," Demona cues as she strikes an enticing pose for the audience, evoking jealous glares from the other contestants
posted @ Mon, Apr 3, 2006 5:58:14 am EDT from 71.192.76.212

WarCrafter: Happy Birthday!!! (:

Kythera: In response to your rude comments made yesterday, back off. It would seem you have already forgotten Greg Weisman's request to the entire room to stop insulting one another. I don't understand your irrational dislike for me, seeing as that it was long since proven that I am not Demonic Lover (and no matter how many times you say, it doesn't make me like him). I have not said anything to you, good or bad, in weeks, so I suggest you do the same and keep your unfriendly comments to yourself, thankyou.

Jurgan: Second place is better than nothing man, lol. I need to wake up earlier in order to make the line up next week, that shall be my ultimate goal, mahahaha!!!
Dragomir
"Don't hate me because I'm devious," Demona cues as she strikes an enticing pose for the audience, evoking jealous glares from the other contestants
posted @ Mon, Apr 3, 2006 5:55:09 am EDT from 71.192.76.212

Happy Birthday Warcrafter!! ^_^
*Hands over a giant frosted birthday cake*
Chameleongirl - [<-- Come to the Gathering!]
Chameleon may change her spots, but she refuses to do plaid
posted @ Mon, Apr 3, 2006 4:12:18 am EDT from 202.87.162.31

Jurgan-- Don't trust the IMDB's listings for KH2... it's incorrect as often as it's correct in the voice actor listing. >.<

The Mayor of Halloween Town was back in KH2, so maybe that was him again. ^_^
Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail.com]
"Live for glory, strength and fury; play your part in the greater scheme of life and nature"
posted @ Mon, Apr 3, 2006 3:47:45 am EDT from 24.126.11.109

Yeah, the Christopher Lee voice was the one I mistook for Rhys-Davies, though only briefly. And I know Jim Cummings is in KHII, playing Pete among others. imdb does not list Jeff Bennett, or, for that matter, anyone named Jeff or Bennett. He was in the first one, though, playing the two-faced mayor from Halloweentown.

Oh, and happy birthday Warcrafter! [Blows noisemaker]
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
posted @ Mon, Apr 3, 2006 3:40:22 am EDT from 68.58.253.131

Hey, Jurgan. ^_^

No, I don't think John Rhys-Davies is in it, anywhere. Christopher Lee is, though. ^_- I'll have to fight the last boss again to check the end credits, but I THINK I remember seeing Kath Souce's name in there somewhere, and possibly Jeff Bennet. I couldn't tell you WHO they voiced, though, because they were lumped under the "Disney Voice Talents" section. :B Crispin was the only one I could confirm, so he's the only one I mentioned. ^_^

Indeed, there are no Gargoyles in Kingdom Hearts 2. Just so everyone knows what it is that I DO for Square Enix, Inc... I am a Quality Assurance tester. I am in no way involved in development or production--that's all done in Japan, where the games are released first. What I'm involved in is localization for North America. That is, we make sure that all of the text is correct, that all of the games functions work correctly, that nothing causes it to crash... that sort of thing. I don't deal with code, concept art, or even marketing at all. I just play the game, and file bug reports, then check to make sure that they've been fixed. ^_^

On a side note, they're currently looking for more QA testers. You MUST live in the Los Angeles area. It's a full-time gig, hours are not flexible. Drop me an email if you're interested.

I don't know anything for certain, but I'd say there's a strong chance we'll see a KH3. Going into the whys would be spoilerish, so that's all I'll say. ;] Sadly... I've got no connections where I could even suggest including Gargs in KH3. Everyone else in QA agrees that Gargs is definitely suited to Kingdom Hearts, but nobody has any connections for suggesting that. QA is really the bottom of the food chain. But believe me, if I knew who to send it to, I'd mail out a copy of the Season 1 DVD to Japan tomorrow. XD
Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail.com]
"Live for glory, strength and fury; play your part in the greater scheme of life and nature"
posted @ Mon, Apr 3, 2006 3:00:39 am EDT from 24.126.11.109

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Comments for the week ending April 10, 2006

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