Wow. A crazy thing happened yesterday. I'm at my cousin's graduation party, and I hop over to this convenience store to buy batteries. As the clerk at the counter turns around to get the batteries, I notice that she has a tattoo of Bob-omb from Super Mario Brothers 2 and 3 on her right shoulder. I comment her on her tattoo, to which she replies that just needs to represent. If truer words have been spoken, I've yet to hear them.

Battle Beast: Of course. Otherwise, I wouldn't be discussing it. And I've also tried the Rush thing. In both cases, it helps to really understand the albums. So if you're not familiar with Rush, the Wonka thing probably won't be fully appreciated until you've listened to "2112" a few times.

Goldfish: One really doesn't need any drugs to notice anything. There's just lots of coincidences between the lyrics to the songs and the action on screen, and even some eerie synchronizations between the music and the on-screen action. And I don't think these things happen on purpose. The people who DISCOVER them are on drugs, but no influence is necessary for anyone else to see it.


Concerning Demona: I also remember a few things in "Long Way to Morning" that I think were subtle hints as to the decisions she made in 994 (notably her abandoning the rest of the clan without giving them any warning). Most poignant is probably when she tells Goliath, "I don't know who's the bigger fool. Him (Hudson) for going, you for following, or me for not leaving you both." But I don't know if Greg's ever made mention of this, or if someone pointed this out to him in ASK GREG, and he's said that that was intended (I still have to read all his rambles to date). Just something I noticed. And I would have put Hudson's name in brackets, but I don't think this system is taking it.

I myself think that good and evil are always in conflict in all of us (unless you're Homer Simpson). I think the scales had always been tipped slightly on evil as far as Demona is concerned, but one of the main catalysts that shaped her path as she grew older and became Goliath's second was being taken to 994 when she was a teenager and being shown her future (in which everyone she cared about was dead or frozen). I think teens are always raging torrents of emotion, regardless of time and place, and regardless of whether they're human or gargoyle.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"She's really turned on by the television... and vice versa." -Ian Anderson.
posted @ Sun, May 7, 2006 9:30:33 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

If you want to be pedantic about it, Morgan Sheppard also did the voice of King Kenneth, bringing him up to a total of three "Gargoyles" characters (though still not enough to challenge Jeff Bennett's record, of course).
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Sun, May 7, 2006 7:22:00 pm EDT from 4.244.215.39

We have some new guests lined up for The Gathering 2006, and there will be an announcement tomorrow about The Gathering 2007. New guests from the "Gargoyles" voice cast include Morgan Sheppard (Odin & Petros Xanatos), Cree Summer (Hyena) and Tom Wilson (Matt Bluestone). We've also got some new guests from "W.I.T.C.H." and "Kim Possible", as well as a special panel assembled by Frank Paur that includes Steve Gordon, Boyd Kirkland, and James Peters.

Basically, we got guests out the wazoo. Trust me... you really don't want to miss this Gathering if you can possibly help it. ;)

15 days left to reserve hotel rooms.
27 days left to pre-register for the convention.
47 days left until The Gathering 2006 in Valencia, California!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2006]
"Look, you're British, so scale it down a bit." - Eddie Izzard
posted @ Sun, May 7, 2006 10:28:44 am EDT from 70.229.197.153

Warcrafter > I've already wailed all voer my LJ flist about having to miss Loren Lester.
Thankfully I have the bestest girlfriend ever and she is going to stalk him for an autograph :D
Chameleongirl - [<-- Come to the Gathering!]
Chameleon may change her spots, but she refuses to do plaid
posted @ Sun, May 7, 2006 12:41:44 am EDT from 202.87.162.31

Patrick - No wonder the monster keeps coming back! You keep giving it tree-fitty!
Y2Hecate - [y2hecate@aol.com]
Shh. You can't see me.
posted @ Sun, May 7, 2006 12:40:14 am EDT from 172.163.71.146

Darn it Warcrafter! lol, I don't check it because I don't want to know who I'm going to miss cause I can't go :(

Tom Wilson- *cries* I'de love to meet him!
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
Pimpin' my DA gallery
posted @ Sat, May 6, 2006 9:08:03 pm EDT from 152.163.100.14

Has anyone checked the guest list for the gathering yet. If you haven't you may be shocked by how many guests there are. Now we have Morgan Sheppard - Voice of Odin & Petros Xanatos, Cree Summer- voice of Hyena, and Tom Wilson - voice of Matt Bluestone along with many other people I would love to meet coming to the gathering. Grey DeLisle, being one of the new guests just makes me even more anxious to go.
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
IT'S PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!
posted @ Sat, May 6, 2006 9:04:44 pm EDT from 69.234.6.13

BISHANSKY - In light of Demona's later career (both in "City of Stone" and even more so in "Sanctuary"), the Lady Macbeth comparison strikes me as very appropriate. (I still say that she fits the Shakespearean version far better than Gruoch ever did. Come to think of it, we know that Macbeth knew Shakespeare, which raises an additional question of some interest there....)
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Sat, May 6, 2006 8:55:03 pm EDT from 4.244.213.50

Patrick: well yes, but I was under the impression she wasn't a fan of Demona, despite doing her voice. Plus I think she'd be a bit on the old side do to it now. Actually I think Claudia Black would make a pretty dern good Demona.
Greg B: Oh I didn't say she was an angel, and for sure her motives are mixed. Apprenticing for the archmage may not have been her most noble moment I'll give you that, but she IS highly protective of the clan, in her own way. Like I said, just a bit more harsh than Goliath. She doesn't see a need to find a middle ground on some issues. She's proud of her species, and that probably gives her a strain of arrogance.
Reno
"Thailog...helping us!?"
posted @ Sat, May 6, 2006 3:18:56 pm EDT from 71.9.106.172

Harvester: LOL, that's...intersting.
So what type of drugs must one be on to get the full experience? ;)
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
Pimpin' my DA gallery
posted @ Sat, May 6, 2006 2:45:05 pm EDT from 205.188.117.68

Sadly, Greg's blather reminds me of a LJ buddy who is an obvious bot.
King Cobra3 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
"Got it!" -Lexington, Awakening IV
posted @ Sat, May 6, 2006 12:14:41 pm EDT from 209.239.132.202

Dang it monster! You stop buggin' my children now! Work for our money in this house and we just don't give it away! Stop commin' round here harasin' my family! I ain't got no got dang tree fiddy and I sure as heck ain't gonna give it to you if I did!

HoE> Dark Side of the Monn syncs up very well to WoO. I've tried it. Have you?

I didn't know about the other one though.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
that is all I will say.
posted @ Sat, May 6, 2006 11:23:15 am EDT from 198.53.28.99

Demona wasn't really an angel back in the Dark Ages either. She certainly wasn't a genocidal sociopath, but she was power hungry.

I see no reason for her to become the Archmage's apprentice that don't involve her wanting power.

Hell, in the flashback to "Long Way to Morning", she, like Lady Macbeth before her (the Shakespearean version), was encouraging Goliath to seize control of the clan.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
Each year, the Rainforest is responsible for over three thousand deaths from accidents, attacks or illnesses. There are over seven hundred things in the Rainforest that cause cancer. Join the fight now and help stop the Rainforest before it's too late.
posted @ Sat, May 6, 2006 11:08:09 am EDT from 68.202.14.214

Goldfish: I'll grant you that, BUT watching Wizard of Oz while playing "Dark Side of the Moon" does work (works better with the tape then with the CD). For additional viewing pleasure, try Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory with Rush's "2112" (start the album, pause it, and then unpause it during the scene when Wonka comes out of his factory, right after he lets go of his cane and grasps empty air for the second time).

And it did sound like Elisa was saying "damn," but I've been wrong before. I still screw up the lyrics to Manfred Mann's cover of "Blinded by the Light" every time it comes on the radio.

And... I love Demona discussions. Too bad I have a graduation to catch. See every one on the Dark Side.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"There is no dark side of the moon, really. Matter of fact, it's all dark."
posted @ Sat, May 6, 2006 10:15:47 am EDT from 134.126.204.20

Reno > Marina Sirtis?

Phil > I'm not sure what the $62 means, but there's a Loch Ness Monster here who said to ask you for $3.50.

16 days left to reserve hotel rooms.
28 days left to pre-register for the convention.
48 days left until The Gathering 2006 in Valencia, California!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2006]
"Is that faux leopard?" / "Faux leopard, five, maybe even six." - Aries Spears, Mad TV
posted @ Sat, May 6, 2006 8:09:53 am EDT from 68.255.171.108

Dragomir: Pre 994 Demona is what, I would say, a good XO (2nd in command) should be and that's a counterpoint to the CO. She's a lot more forceful than he is with the human residents...after all she's the one that hisses at Katherine when she's acting like a jerk. And she's the one who swoops rather dramatically to Brook's rescue. The video was alright, I'm not a big fan of that song anyways...but the animation was pretty cool. Live action Gargs is definately a possibility...but what actress has the voice and pressence to play the angel of the night? Anyone have thoughts on that?
Reno
"Thailog...helping us!?"
posted @ Sat, May 6, 2006 4:49:38 am EDT from 71.9.106.172

Reno> Lol, too true, too true. Demona is hands down the best. I think pre-994 Demona was benevolent, she did after all love Goliath with her heart back then and helped him and Hudson defeat the Archmage, as well as take down her future self (who scared her senseless with her dreams of vengeance and warnings of disaster). I think pre-994 Demona was only looking out for her clan back then, and we can't blame her considering how badly the humans treated them (i would have bashed Katherine's and Magus' heads together after that bully comment directed twoards Goliath). Who knows what the future has in store for our beloved villainess, but I think at least that her past self was good person (I so badly want to see the Dark Ages spinoff work out, see how many good Vs. evil deeds she did back then). She was definately ambitious, considering her apprenticeship to the Archmage, but I think we can chalk that up to the follies of youth, she didn'tb know any better at the time, probably thought knowing sorcery would be of great help to her clan. P.S. did you check out that Devilman AMV I suggested? If not, do so, I promise you'll love it!!!(:
Dragomir
"Don't hate me because I'm devious," Demona cues as she strikes an enticing pose for her adoring fans!
posted @ Fri, May 5, 2006 10:44:53 pm EDT from 71.192.76.212

Greg: So Greg W. is imitating those auto-blather bots to mess with us? How...cryptic. Matt Bluestone would approve...
Stormy
posted @ Fri, May 5, 2006 7:44:31 pm EDT from 142.167.208.127

Oh, and today is John Rhys-Davies' birthday, too. Many happy returns to him!
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Fri, May 5, 2006 6:45:37 pm EDT from 4.244.208.240

Re: Blather > Combine a Mad Libs template with some cypher or another through a basic Shell Script and have a blast.

Heck, it could even be the same kind of logic applied to Jesusify, Babelfish, or Gizoogle a Web site.
Marty Lund - [lundmart [at] comcast [dot] net]
posted @ Fri, May 5, 2006 6:33:32 pm EDT from 198.187.200.254

IT'S CINCO DE MAYO EVERYONE. LET'S CELEBRATE THE FESTIVITIES. (cause that's all i have to say for now)
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
IT'S PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!
posted @ Fri, May 5, 2006 6:11:01 pm EDT from 69.234.6.13

I was under the impression that the "three wise men (who may or may not have been kings)" part was about the Magi who came to Bethlehem (cf. Chapter 2 of the Gospel according to Matthew), whom later legend portrays as kings. (There's not even any mention of there having been three of them; that probably came from the fact that they brought three gifts.)

But then, I haven't inspected the blather too carefully; I was probably afraid that to do so might be to test my sanity too greatly.
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Fri, May 5, 2006 6:10:11 pm EDT from 4.244.208.240

Stormy> No, Greg himself, wrote that.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
Each year, the Rainforest is responsible for over three thousand deaths from accidents, attacks or illnesses. There are over seven hundred things in the Rainforest that cause cancer. Join the fight now and help stop the Rainforest before it's too late.
posted @ Fri, May 5, 2006 5:48:10 pm EDT from 68.202.14.214

re: the Blather

I've seen things like that appearing with regularity on a newsgroup I'm part of. It's rather unwelcome spam there, since the topic is supposed to be cats.

My guess is that someone, or one of these bot programs, hacked/hijacked Greg's account.
Stormy
posted @ Fri, May 5, 2006 5:45:04 pm EDT from 142.167.208.127

The Weisman Code> Thanks for the advice, Greg B, but I will not be dissuaded!! I will not rest until I have ferretted out the hidden meaning behind Greg's Blather! Nothing can stop me from digging out the deepest, darkest secrets buried within his brain! Secrets even he is only subconsciously aware of! Though black Illuminati helicopters may track me down and circle my house, I will persevere!! BWA HA HA HA HA!!!!

(OK, seriously... I may be wasting my time, but it's fun. And mental gymnastics are good exercise.)

Anyway, could someone fill me in on Aquaman's seahorse? I've come up with Storm and Imp, but the Blather indicates that "we're not talking Super-Friends here".
Phil - [p1anderson@go.com]
posted @ Fri, May 5, 2006 4:35:01 pm EDT from 69.129.121.95

Re: The "Blather"

How about Occam's razor... Greg was hopped up on cold meds while logged in to "Ask Greg", and is now having a good snicker at our expense (or will, once the meds wear off).

;)
Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail.com]
I do not suffer fools, gladly or otherwise.
posted @ Fri, May 5, 2006 4:08:26 pm EDT from 65.169.99.145

Dragomir: I'll have to take your word for it...I never really got into DBZ (much as many of my S/Os did *grumbles*) but I would find that line interesting as well. The whole notion of a double-loop timestream where we get to see a world without the massacre but in the end the characters resume their normal timeline could have been a fun episode, but might have been above the target audience. (or a group of Harvard professors for that matter) But the one question left is "Did seeing the death cause Demona to become hardened towards betraying the humans in 994, or was it already within her nature?" I couldn't tell you to be honest. From what was seen of pre-994 Demona she was ambitious and cunning, and critical of the clans relationship with the humans...but so were probably many of the gargoyles. She brings up a very valid point in Awakenings I when she points out that they did the fighting and risked their lives and were repaid with contempt at best and out and out racism at worse. And they were on the cliffs first, so, why not would her arguments be valid? But I might be biased in my opinions about Demona 'cause she's awesome.
Reno
This library sure is quiet...
posted @ Fri, May 5, 2006 3:30:14 pm EDT from 134.197.63.62

Phil> I think you may be reading way, way too much into this.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
Each year, the Rainforest is responsible for over three thousand deaths from accidents, attacks or illnesses. There are over seven hundred things in the Rainforest that cause cancer. Join the fight now and help stop the Rainforest before it's too late.
posted @ Fri, May 5, 2006 3:13:59 pm EDT from 68.202.14.214

Here's a status report on my analysis of "Blather" in an attempt to crack "The Weisman Code"...

No luck yet in determining the reason for Greg's misspelling of "trice". I'm also coming up empty on the "documentary depicting many a Chinese doll", although I'm researching the Terracotta Army of Emperor Qin.
However, I think I may have struck paydirt in identifying the "three wise men (who may or may not have been kings)". It seems to be self-referential (wise men / Weisman), and knowing that Greg named Robyn and Jon Canmore after his own sister and brother leads me to the obvious conclusion that he is alluding to the Canmore siblings, a.k.a. the Hunters.
Now to figure out why they needed $62 to redeem a coupon...

(If anyone would like to contribute thoughts to my analysis, please feel free.)
Phil - [p1anderson@go.com]
posted @ Fri, May 5, 2006 3:06:56 pm EDT from 69.129.121.95

Good to see the llama found work. Getting laid off from the Neverland Ranch was a tough blow for many animals.

The closest Elisa has ever come to cussing was saying "Jalapena, that helicopter's annoying," in "The Journey."

17 days left to reserve hotel rooms.
29 days left to pre-register for the convention.
49 days left until The Gathering 2006 in Valencia, California!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2006]
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." - Inigo Montoya
posted @ Fri, May 5, 2006 1:13:44 pm EDT from 24.106.128.24

Dragomir: Um, no, Elisa doesn't swear. The episode being referred to is Awakenings pt.4-the part where Elisa hides in the boathouse from the Xanatos goon squad. She opens the gun she took from them, sighs, and then says "Empty" right before she dodges a bunch of bullets-that's it.

You know, I've heard about that "damn" rumor before, and I find it very interesting. I think it's one of those things where people hear what they want to hear, disregarding what's actually being said-(or see what they want to see)-in regards to things like rumors, urban myths, and legends.

No offense, to you harvester ;)-I think it's one of those things along the line of people hearing the infamous Aladdin "take off your clothes" line, or people believing that they see a dwarf hanging himself in a background shot in The Wizard of OZ.
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
Pimpin' my DA gallery
posted @ Fri, May 5, 2006 12:48:45 pm EDT from 205.188.117.68

Christine - *squeal!* Llama! I love you, llama.
Y2Hecate - [y2hecate@gmail.com]
The time to repent is NOW! ... No, I kid.
posted @ Fri, May 5, 2006 9:53:47 am EDT from 151.141.105.10

Wow, Elisa says an actual swear? This I gotta see...which episode is it?

Reno> I agree, time travel is just plain weird, the only way it could get even stranger is if they created an alternate timeline in which Demona actually listens to what future Goliath told her and stops the Massacre before it happens. Kind of like in DBZ, Trunks goes back in time to warn the Z Fighters of the Android threat, but only winds up creating a separate time line in which an even worse batch of baddies are created and his own timeline is left unchanged by the damage he's caused.

Everyone> On a totally different subject, anyone here ever heard of Devilman? He's a demonic anti-hero created by the horror manga and anime genius Go Nagai, and I recently learned that a live action movie was made of Devilman. I've seen movie clips and AMVs of the movie on You Tube.com, it looks absolutely amazing, anyone know if its on DVD here in the U.S. yet? P.S. check out this amazing music video from the movie on You Tube.com, its called For The Love of Satan. The song playing is "Angels" by Within Temptation, and it shows a beautifully executed fight scene between the scary looking (gargoyle like) hero Devilman and the angelic, but seriously wicked and treacherous, villain Satan (thats right folks, the Original Fallen Angel himself...shivers). For some reason this video reminds me of Demona's betrayal of Goliath, as well as Thailog's betrayal of Demona, watch it and tell me what you all think please. (:
Dragomir
Trust is hard to build, but easy to destroy
posted @ Fri, May 5, 2006 8:56:32 am EDT from 134.241.91.33

I actually watched that ep last weekend, I never even though it sounded like anything but "empty" to me. DVDs are great that way, no funny sounds from magnetic flaws in the tape. This is much less confusing than time travel, thanks guys. ;)
Reno
posted @ Fri, May 5, 2006 1:32:11 am EDT from 71.9.106.172

I've watched that episode dozens of time and I've never heard Elisa say "damn." Sometimes the words you think you heard aren't really the words that you heard.
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2006]
"It's not fair to remind me of the cross-eyed bear that you gave to me..."
posted @ Thu, May 4, 2006 11:42:11 pm EDT from 68.255.171.108

It does SOUND like she's saying "damn," but I just looked at a transcript online. Ah, well. I'm all too familiar with confusing rock lyrics.

"Now, 'scuse me while I kiss this guy..."
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Coming soon to Channel 62... he's back, and he's mad! GANDHI 2!! No more Mr. Passive Resistance. He's out to kick... some... butt!"
posted @ Thu, May 4, 2006 8:52:47 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

Nikki > here's my drama llama. I think we need a llama-garg, though ... :)
Christine - [<---------- CLICK ME!!!!!]
posted @ Thu, May 4, 2006 8:35:55 pm EDT from 71.112.172.65

Just a quick heads up...

I vaguely remember there being some post at Gargoyles News Central that Keith David was looking for a Goliath Talking Bank. I found one in its original packing on yahoo. Here's the link...

http://auctions.yahoo.com/auction/93450233
Sometime Lurker
posted @ Thu, May 4, 2006 8:23:59 pm EDT from 66.74.220.146

Harvester: I'm pretty sure she doesn't say "damn"
From what I remember, after she opens the gun, she sighs, then says "empty" and then tosses it. Maybe the sigh sounds like damn...

Or perhaps it's on the old VHS version...but I doubt it because saw it several times,and I'm sure I would have remembered if she uttered that word.
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
Pimpin' my DA gallery
posted @ Thu, May 4, 2006 8:06:15 pm EDT from 64.12.116.8

Based on what I've seen of that scene in "Awakening Part Four", I'd say that Elisa's "D--n!" line is simply another "Gargoyles" urban myth, like the claim that Angela and Gabriel as toddlers were out and about in the daytime in "Avalon Part Three" (the scene takes place at night; there's another scene sans gargoyles just before it in the daytime).
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Thu, May 4, 2006 7:46:29 pm EDT from 4.244.18.14

Harvester : To me at least, that sounded more like a sigh.
Spen
"There are three kinds of people; those who can't count, and those who can." - Wilek Nereus
posted @ Thu, May 4, 2006 7:40:35 pm EDT from 216.248.119.208

Spen: Perhaps one of us just got a defective DVD, but the last time I watched it (about a month ago), I'm pretty sure that when Elisa was hiding in the boathouse, and found that the tranquilizer gun she had taken had no shots left, she said "damn!" and tossed it aside.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Coming soon to Channel 62... he's back, and he's mad! GANDHI 2!! No more Mr. Passive Resistance. He's out to kick... some... butt!"
posted @ Thu, May 4, 2006 6:56:11 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

Harvester : I've watched and re-watched that scene with the voulume at maximum level, (and probably getting my neighbors even more ticked at me in the process) and can not for the life of me find the part where Elisa supposidly said 'damn'.
Spen
"There are three kinds of people; those who can't count, and those who can." - Wilek Nereus
posted @ Thu, May 4, 2006 6:29:51 pm EDT from 216.248.119.208

Sorry for the double post, but I just noticed something on that bingo sheet:

Didn't someone point out that Demona did remember what Goliath said to her? It may not have been that, but I _think_ that the last square under G happened this week. I'm not at bingo yet this week, but getting there!
Lord GargFan
posted @ Thu, May 4, 2006 6:19:57 pm EDT from 67.185.229.228

Wow! I'm gone for a day and the comment room breaks into all this! I am amazed.

Matt>That code part cracked me up.

And I'll agree with most of what Greg had to say. I don't know enough about anyone to form an opinion of any personal comments that he made, so that's what I don't agree with.

Nothing more to add.
Lord GargFan
posted @ Thu, May 4, 2006 6:17:03 pm EDT from 67.185.229.228

Stormy: they weren't...Bavarian creativity Daemons by any chance, were they?
Lynati
posted @ Thu, May 4, 2006 6:09:37 pm EDT from 69.154.245.21

Patrick: As I said, nothing but innuendo for me from here on out. Although I will still be using "damn," since it WAS used in an episode of Gargoyles (by Elisa in "Awakening Part Four", for anyone who wants to fire up their DVD).

Alex Garg: I also think Jack Black had the right idea. If children aren't exposed to Rush in public schools, they might grow up liking... dare I say it... TECHNO.

Phil: I suppose someone has to do it. I'm usually more than happy to let that someone not be me. Knock yourself out, mein fruend.

Reno: Nope. Still doesn't look any clearer. Think I'll just stick to trying to read that book by Dr. Hawking that my godmother gave me for Christmas when I was a sophomore in high school, for some reason.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Yes, I'll be coming again like an old dog in pain, blown through the eye of the hurricane, down to the stones where old ghosts play..." -Ian Anderson
posted @ Thu, May 4, 2006 5:21:18 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

Greetings...

Greg Weisman - Please drop me a note at my email? Thanks.
Stephen Sobotka Jr - [ssobotka33616_AT_yahoo.com]
Feel the rain on your skin. No one else can feel it for you, only you can let it in. No one else... can speak the words on your lips. Drench yourself in words unspoken. Live your life with arms wide open. Today is where your book begins... The rest is still unwritten.
posted @ Thu, May 4, 2006 5:17:16 pm EDT from 70.124.172.35

I'll keep it simple.. for I just finished my finals and me no thinky no more.

Blather - Woot!
Jen, Christine, Mara, & Kyt - Lurv!
More Christine - OMGWTFBBQLLAMA?!
Patrick - Pouncing cats: Yes?
More Patrick - 2007 location: Porkchoppy.
Harvester of Eyes - If that's a cookbook or even just a recipe.. clearly, it needs more cowbell.
Y2Hecate - [y2hecate@gmail.com]
The time to repent is NOW! ... No, I kid.
posted @ Thu, May 4, 2006 4:05:09 pm EDT from 151.141.105.10

Patrick:<Good grief. Must we be like predatory cats, constantly pouncing on each other?> Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow!
Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]
Nazi Germany was the first nation to enact anti-smoking laws. So fight Nazism by supporting your local smoker!
posted @ Thu, May 4, 2006 3:41:33 pm EDT from 69.54.209.131

Greg W-It's like that cartoon about "Internet-Argument-Losing Bingo." (Click my name to see it.) Right under "I": Anyone to make a comparison between the topic at hand and Nazis ( usually wildly out of any historical context) loses the argument automatically. (Or, if it's my message board and I'm feeling cranky, gets the military-historian analysis of why the Nazi analogy doesn't fit).

And speaking of Nazis, I actually managed to keep (most of) them out of my anthology story this year...

I'm still not sure what happened last year. I was trying to write a story set in mideval Wyvern. I scrapped it halfway through after being possessed by creativity demons in jackboots.
Stormy
posted @ Thu, May 4, 2006 3:27:22 pm EDT from 142.167.221.223

Godwin's Law needs to be taught in schools right up there with Newton and Kepler.

Blather>> I enjoyed it! I'd work on "breaking the code" myself, but there's so much to focus on now (like not working in these nine days until graduation).

Breaking codes is for later - fun and blather is now.
Alex Garg - [<-- Frappr Gargoyles Group]
62 21 0 9 5 5 20 42 3 6 - Weisman's numbers of doom!
posted @ Thu, May 4, 2006 3:23:50 pm EDT from 216.145.68.246

Mara - You're right... I am pretty stupid. That blather hurt my head. :) You made it sound beautiful and I was just thinking "Dude, when did Greg start doing crack?".

Matt - No one owes you an apology. If you get that easily offended by a simple post on the internet, I think it's time you unplug. Holy crap, who do you think you are?

Greg W. - It's "Goodwin's Law" of the internet. By saying "Hitler", Mara is giving up the battle. She has announced herself the loser and backed out of the fight. Yes, this is all very frustrating and yes you are annoying and patronizing. They are obviously not going to listen to you... so I ask the question to you that you often ask of me... "Then why do you keep trying?"
Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson - [<--- Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"We lived innocently as children... but like all children, we grew up" -- The Magus
posted @ Thu, May 4, 2006 1:49:08 pm EDT from 71.133.212.66

I have read through Greg's recent "Blather" and, like many of you, immediately began to question its purpose. Greg's ramblings are generally coherently topical, and he is not prone to posting meaningless or (more politely) esoterical verbiage. (Although his Buffyverse statistics come very close, as he himself has suggested.)

As I began a deeper analysis into the reason Greg may have posted this sentence, the recent "DaVinci Code" plagiarism trial was brought to mind. The judge in that case embedded a hidden code into his final judgement which was subsequently discovered and decoded by lawyers. I wondered if Greg may have in a similar way embedded an alternate message into his "Blather". Perhaps he has come up with a spectacular Gargoyles-related development that he is dying to reveal, but at the same time is averse to just give away. By making intrepid codebreakers work for the information, he can assuage that reluctance. (This is similar to the contests that had been held in past years here at Ask Greg: "Guess the Seven (make that eight) Arthurian Survivors", "Guess the Twelve Clans", and "Fill in the Blanks of the Gargoyles 2198 Pitch".)

Therefore, I am about to embark on a thorough analysis of Greg's "Blather", paying special attention to the text, format, word choice, references, and especially typographical "errors". I intend to post my findings as they are developed, expecting this to be an all-consuming task for at least the next several weeks, if not longer.

Wish me luck!
Phil - [p1anderson@go.com]
posted @ Thu, May 4, 2006 12:17:28 pm EDT from 69.129.121.95

Christine> Oo-oh-h yeah. I second.

Anywho, I as yet have not read Greg's latest post, so will now take the time to do so. Then back to work. May post something else later tonight.
Asatira
posted @ Thu, May 4, 2006 10:06:25 am EDT from 24.214.68.215

Patrick> "Official announcement coming soon regarding the location of The Gathering 2007."

Great! :) I've been itching to know where it's gonna be held. Hopefully someplace close, like Manhattan for example, that is within driving distance.
kingcobra_582 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
King Cobra3
posted @ Thu, May 4, 2006 9:38:22 am EDT from 209.239.132.252

< Chief Brody >

We're gonna need a bigger drama llama.

</ Chief Brody >
Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
posted @ Thu, May 4, 2006 9:36:43 am EDT from 70.56.94.10

Looking back at Monday's comments, it sure strikes me as ironic that Mara, of all people, is the one getting jumped on for using "inappropriate" language. Good grief. Must we be like predatory cats, constantly pouncing on each other?

Official announcement coming soon regarding the location of The Gathering 2007.

18 days left to reserve hotel rooms.
30 days left to pre-register for the convention.
50 days left until The Gathering 2006 in Valencia, California!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2006]
"Put 'em up, put 'em up! I'll fight ya with one paw tied behind my back!" - The Cowardly Lion
posted @ Thu, May 4, 2006 7:46:57 am EDT from 24.106.128.24

No, you people have got Greg's ramble all wrong. IT'S A COOKBOOK! A COOOOOK-BOOOOOOOK!

And now it's off to work.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Wondering and dreaming, the words have different meanings... yes, they did..." -Pink Floyd.
posted @ Thu, May 4, 2006 7:04:36 am EDT from 69.174.3.196

Just to clear some confusion...

Greg W: Mara was invoking Goodwin's Law:

"As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one.

There is a tradition in many Usenet newsgroups that once such a comparison is made the thread in which the comment was posted is finished and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever debate was in progress."

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

Let's not jump the gun. ;)
Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail.com]
I do not suffer fools, gladly or otherwise.
posted @ Thu, May 4, 2006 3:10:01 am EDT from 24.126.11.109

Once again, I agree with everything Greg Weisman says. Alright everyone, from this point on, let's all be civilized and make Greg proud, like we're one big happy fandom family :)
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
IT'S PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!
posted @ Thu, May 4, 2006 2:25:16 am EDT from 69.234.6.13

Man...

Mara, wow. I'm so glad you liked it, and yet for the life of me I cannot figure out why you feel the need to call people "stupid" or for the love of God invoke the name "Hitler", which is so incredibly over the top as to offend ME, i.e. the guy you ostensibly were trying to praise. Do you have any idea what the power of that one word REALLY means to most people?

I get that you were trying to defend my "work," which by the way was unnecessary as no one was particularly attacking it, but geez, OVERREACT MUCH?!

AND MATT - I have to say you DO have a tendency go holier than thou at the DROP of a hat, likewise making over the top statements along the lines of this-is-the-worst-thing-I've-ever-seen-in-this-comment-room, which I can't even imagine you truly believe, given some of the things we've seen in this comment room over the years, let alone over the last six months.

Once again, I'm going to ask -- ask, mind you -- THAT AS A PERSONAL FAVOR TO ME that everyone work just a bit harder to be civil.

I tried to do something fun and almost INSTANTLY the tenor of this room turns dark.

I used to love stopping by here periodically, but it's become an exercise in... I don't know what.

I guess this is my advice: WHEN IN DOUBT... go ahead and LET the other person have the last word. Cuz the odds are if you're insisting on it, then your last word is going to be SNARKY at best.

I just... <sigh> It's so frustrating.

And NO, I am not looking for any apologies or even any further discussion of the incident. Just LET IT DROP and move on. If people want to go back to discussing Blather itself, that's up to you guys. But I don't see any need to discuss the Blather discussion or how it began.

I know I've begun to repeat myself so much that I find MYSELF annoying and patronizing. So I truly, sincerely hope that this can be MY last word on the subject.
Greg Weisman
posted @ Thu, May 4, 2006 2:11:34 am EDT from 68.183.95.134

Matt:

I am sorry I hurt your feelings.

In my seven years as an active member of the internet fandom; and in the twelve years of being a Gargoyles fan, I should have learned better than to endanger the feelings of those who have seniority over me. Please forgive me for my lack. You are right on all accounts, and have won your argument skillfully. I shall invoke the word "Hilter" and end this impromptu debate by losing. Hitler.

Now I will go back to lurking before Greg has to step in.

In all seriousness, I would like to focus on what attracted me back to this room after my long absence and say- the last ramble on AskGreg rocked my socks.
Mara - [baranotenshi@hotmail.com]
"That's the beauty of it"- Reverend Thrower.
posted @ Thu, May 4, 2006 1:53:10 am EDT from 69.154.245.21

Mara> It is pretty clear who your statement was directed towards. Don't act as if you didn't say it and don't act as if we are too stupid to understand it. You were out of line saying that and you owe myself and others an apology.
It is rather sad that someone can speak of beauty in the same post that they say such a mean, hurtful and undeserved comment to their fellow fan.
I am shocked by your callousness, and how willing you are to say that to others. Your retraction of the statement is worthless because you go on to tell us we are not smart enough to understand your original context, which is ludicrous. Your tone almost makes me feel you have something personal against someone. If this is the case, don't apply your immature insults to the whole of the Comment Room.
In all my years in this Room, I've seen all sorts of fights, annoyances, insults and other bad behavior, but I have never seen anyone so carelessly and rudely insult others for no reason and than deny responsibility for it.
You obviously have made some in this Room feel offended. A mature, enlightened, empathetic person would see that and apologize, but somehow I doubt you are such a person.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"I sometimes go to my own little world, but that's okay, they know me there." - Joel Hodgson
posted @ Thu, May 4, 2006 1:32:38 am EDT from 150.201.114.132

You have to read Greg W.'s ramble carefully: it's not a run-on sentence, but a very, very complicated but seemingly well-formed complex sentence with long embedded compound and complex clauses.

If a miscreant did break in and post that, sir (or madam), I salute you.

I couldn't help thinking of Monty Python as I read that, though. Not that that's a bad thing.
JJ Gregarius
Like the man said, "There are no problems; only solutions!"
posted @ Thu, May 4, 2006 1:03:41 am EDT from 4.247.152.184

Ah man...sorry matt, I guess I think entirely different than you do, it happens when you're oh look something shiny! err...I mean...it happens when you try and think like a redhead. (unless you are one, then I have no real explination)
HoE: glad I could help put you to sleep...?
Reno
posted @ Thu, May 4, 2006 1:01:47 am EDT from 71.9.106.172

Greg W.: ???
Battle Beast - [Canada]
that is all I will say.
posted @ Thu, May 4, 2006 12:46:32 am EDT from 198.53.28.99

Greg, I just have to say, you're an insane genius.
Spen
"There are three kinds of people; those who can't count, and those who can." - Wilek Nereus
posted @ Thu, May 4, 2006 12:42:26 am EDT from 216.248.119.208

Matt and Warcrafter:

Smart people would know when a comment is not aimed at them, especially if they did not read what was being referred to and therefor have not made a judgement in any case.

But, I will happily take back my "you all are pretty stupid" comment if it will nip potentially disadvantageous further conversation in the bud; and rewrite it as:

In my opinion, as a writer and as a reader, think that anyone who dismissed Greg's latest ramble as being substandard would do well to temporarily ignore punctation marks and instead enjoy a fairly personal view into someone we like's mindspace. There are so very personal pieces of information in there, and I feel the urge to be protective of them- since I feel that I got it, whatever it is. I felt those negative responses stupid because I felt genuinely injured on behalf of those pretty words; because it resonated for me. I enjoyed reading it.

I also feel annoyed to be reprimanded for one sentence and ignored for the body of my post. But I choose not to dwell on it.
Mara - [baranotenshi@hotmail.com]
"That's the beauty of it"- Reverend Thrower.
posted @ Thu, May 4, 2006 12:05:26 am EDT from 69.154.245.21

Mara, it isn't appropriate to talk with that kind of language. There may be some people in this comment room that may not of read that post and you are calling them stupid. I'm sorry but that's wrong. Next time you post, it may be best to read the previous posts before posting your own. Nothing against you, I'm just asking kindly and so is everyone else.
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
IT'S PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!
posted @ Wed, May 3, 2006 11:54:06 pm EDT from 69.234.6.13

Calling people "pretty stupid" is clearly not appropriate.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"I sometimes go to my own little world, but that's okay, they know me there." - Joel Hodgson
posted @ Wed, May 3, 2006 11:38:05 pm EDT from 150.201.114.132

You are all pretty stupid.

Read it aloud, preferably with the pauses conveyed by the commas... it's a free-formed stream of consciousness, it has beat and rhythmn and beautiful imagery- it's a form of poetry.

I feel like how I usually feel after listening to jazz. And I want a cigarette now.

Greg, if that was you- I applaud you and stand in line politely to have your Writing Babies.

If it was a hacker... well, my writing babies will be his instead.
Mara - [baranotenshi@hotmail.com]
"That's the beauty of it"- Reverend Thrower.
posted @ Wed, May 3, 2006 11:21:47 pm EDT from 69.154.245.21

I have a different theory. Somebody hacked into Ask Greg and made that post. The reason is pretty simple: I have higher expectations of Greg Weisman than for him to post a single long run-on sentence. It makes as much sense as some of the spam I've seen. I assume the Ask Greg system is pretty password protected, or does it rely entirely on hidden webpages as its protection?
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity? Looking for a roommate for the gathering.
posted @ Wed, May 3, 2006 10:54:44 pm EDT from 63.232.250.142

*reads Greg's ramble*

Did anyone else notice that it is one run-on sentence? Either Greg has finally lost it... or within the "Blather" is the code to understand what Titania whispered to Fox...

probably the former.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"I sometimes go to my own little world, but that's okay, they know me there." - Joel Hodgson
posted @ Wed, May 3, 2006 10:12:52 pm EDT from 150.201.114.132

time travel...ugh, I think I'm going to stay away from this conversation, lol

Did anyone read Greg W's last post-my head hurts!hehe, I really don't get what he's trying to say, or is he just rambling incoherently?
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
Pimpin' my DA gallery
posted @ Wed, May 3, 2006 9:40:28 pm EDT from 205.188.117.68

Dragomir: I got the impression, from the end of "Vows," that Demona also did not know that history could not be changed. She, like Goliath, needed to discover it. Maybe before she got her hands on the whole gate again, Demona just remembered what she had heard from herself, but before she got the gate and went back to 975, she lacked the knowledge that she gained by going there and then returning to 1995 (that knowledge being that history can't be changed).

Reno: Wow. I'll comment later. I'm too tired to make any sense of that right now.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Wondering and dreaming, the words have different meanings... yes, they did..." -Pink Floyd.
posted @ Wed, May 3, 2006 9:20:37 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

I think I understood time travel until I read Reno's post. : )
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"I sometimes go to my own little world, but that's okay, they know me there." - Joel Hodgson
posted @ Wed, May 3, 2006 6:45:39 pm EDT from 150.201.114.132

Time travel, what a subject. And we've got evil twins thrown in now too. All we need now are parallel universes and we've got a full sci-fi triumverate. Oh wait, we DO have that whole Future Tense thing. Almost wants to make me bust out best of SG1 to see that show's take on it all. Almost. I think the best way time's been described to me, at least academically, is as a flowing river. Your preceptions are just one stream of that river and you could divert from everyone else's if you say pick up a leaf, circle back to a previous point in that stream, cross it, and flow independantly back to where you left the otiginal river. Let's say at the point you crossed the main river (upstream) you release a leaf into it unwittingly or wittingly. Now you didn't know (maybe) that the leaf that kicked out out of the river was the same one you dropped, maybe it wasn't, just that you picked it up. Of course when you get back to where it all "began" by your perception you realize if you'd never dropped the leaf you never could have picked it up. And of course everyone else is highly confused and is left with the question of "did the leaf send you back in time, or did going back in time send you the leaf." Or at least, if I kill my evil clone and eat his heart, will i gain the strength of his soul? *w*

-Reno
Reno
posted @ Wed, May 3, 2006 6:08:41 pm EDT from 71.9.106.172

But what if he ~ DID ~ die, Patrick?

He could have received the letter from a third party, deceiving him into believing that he'd gone to the past and sent himself the letter.

Much like with Griff. When Goliath goes back to the Blitz, he can't bring Griff back to see Una and Leo unless they were lying to him in the future. Goliath ~ assumes ~ they are being truthful. They ~ assume ~ that Griff died.

Goliath brings Griff forward in time, ~ disproving ~ their assumption that Griff died.

Any of the following outcomes would retain continuity:
- Griff died
- Una and Leo lied
- Goliath brought Griff forward in time

Limited information and deception keeps the possibilities of one's actions in the past wide open enough to not be able to act without certainty. The "gotcha" effect of "hey, he wasn't really your grandpa," makes reliance on Temporal Continuity ~ extremely ~ dicey. You don't want to move your survival as an explanation of history from a position of "probable" to "not so probably." When the Evil Twin / Clone scenario starts to look promising compared to the "jumped out of the space shuttle and survived re-entry" alternative, you're in trouble.

Historical Invulnerability is a dangerous assumption to make, especially for a shrewd individual like Xanatos.

Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball (tm).
Marty Lund - [lundmart [at] comcast [dot] net]
posted @ Wed, May 3, 2006 5:43:48 pm EDT from 198.187.200.254

To my mind, where the paradox of free will comes into play is the period of time between learning that sometime in the future you must travel back into the past to provide aid to present yourself and the point at which you actually do the time traveling. For example, how much time passed between Xanatos receiving the explanatory letter and his wedding night? A week? During that week, NOTHING could happen that could result in his death or incapacitation, because that would mean he wouldn't have been able to travel into the past to send the two letters to himself in the future. He could have lept in front of a bus and not been killed. He couldn't, because he didn't. Time travel is funny that way.

51 days left until The Gathering 2006 in Valencia, California!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2006]
posted @ Wed, May 3, 2006 5:16:01 pm EDT from 68.255.171.108

Time Loops>> Guys, I think you're thinking too small when you start thinking in terms of time loops.

It's true, if you go back in time in 2006 to 1006, no-one can ever change that. It's also true that the only way you can go back to 1006 is if the future you had already arrived in 1006.

*However*, that doesn't mean *you* have to know that you went back before you did; you could be blissfully unaware.

Predestination>>
Everything you know happened, or can *deduce* happened, is fixed. The rest is seemingly fluid *to you*. To a vistor in the future that has studyied you (imagine you've become a figure of history), your life may be fixed, however. Do a few simple mind-experiments along these lines, and you see that everyone's life must be predetermined.

Free will thus becomes the ability to be yourself, and not under the control of others. However, what you are is fixed. We are all TimeDancers, predetermined by the forces behind the Phoenix Gate.

As a corollary, I posit that no passengers ever use the Phoenix Gate; the Phoenix Gate uses them.
JJ Gregarius
Like the man said, "There are no problems; only solutions!"
posted @ Wed, May 3, 2006 4:07:07 pm EDT from 4.247.152.235

Dragomir: don't forget that Demona is also stubborn. Also, we all know how powerful her denial can be. She sure is relentless, to the point of going against logic. It could also be she didn't fully understand all that time stuff with the phoenix gate.
Obed - [angelgear2000@yahoo.com]
o.O
posted @ Wed, May 3, 2006 3:52:55 pm EDT from 71.57.178.10

Matt> thanks for last weeks complement

Stormy> thanks for the pic of Eddie, she rocks!

Everyone> So basically, the phoenix gate is useless to someone unless they were destined to go back in time and fulfill some kind of time loop in the first place...weird. I still don't buy that Demona just happened to forget that what happened or that she just went ahead with the time travel scheme knowing it would not work. She relentless but doesn't waste her time, pun not intended
Dragomir
"Don't hate me because I'm devious," Demona cues as she strikes an enticing pose for her adoring fans!
posted @ Wed, May 3, 2006 3:01:13 pm EDT from 71.192.76.212

Sorry for the DP.

Spen> Thanks for reminding me about that, I meant to ask Patrick about it also.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"I sometimes go to my own little world, but that's okay, they know me there." - Joel Hodgson
posted @ Wed, May 3, 2006 2:22:18 pm EDT from 150.201.114.132

I dunno Todd, I have a hard time thinking that every one of Brook's timedances are going to be caused by that specific dance. I suppose the Gate is in control of itself at that point though... I dunno, I look at it all this way: the timeline was laid down completly at the beginning of the universe. The time loops were either hiccups in the time line or were there to serve some purpose, something like the pressure valve on time Greg Weisman has mentioned. This could look as if no one has any free will, but everyone does. Just because time has a destiny doesn't mean those living through time are just robotically living our lives. We don't know what is coming, so all our choices are our own. Goliath chose to use the Gate in MIA he didn't have to do it, no one forced him. But he used it, because thats the choice he would make in that situation. Really though, Goliath isn't making that choice over and over, hes only making it once. There is no way that anyone could decide to try making a different decision because we all get only one shot at making a decision, a time loop isn't going to come back around and give us another chance. Time loops only work once, not over and over. Its like we are on the rollar coaster of time, once we go through a loop we don't go through that same loop again ever.
So, you can't change time because you only get one chance in the Gargoyles Universe, and in that one choice the decision you make is stuck being your decision for all time because you only get one shot to make it.
I hope I'm making sense.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"I sometimes go to my own little world, but that's okay, they know me there." - Joel Hodgson
posted @ Wed, May 3, 2006 2:21:28 pm EDT from 150.201.114.132

Patrick : Didn't you say something about announcing the location of next year's Gathering at the end of last month? Or am I just going crazy?
Spen
"There are three kinds of people; those who can't count, and those who can." - Wilek Nereus
posted @ Wed, May 3, 2006 2:16:51 pm EDT from 216.248.119.208

Todd> I don't know if you saw it or not, but there was a Simpsons episode where HOmer makes a time machine out of a toaster and some Plutonium (I think.)

LOng story short, every time he goes back in time, he does something - however little (Killing a mosquito, coughing, stepping on the first creature to walk the Earth from the sea etc.)- and it has a drastic affect on the present day.

It's like you said - any visit at all would have an affect on the present day, negative or positive.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
that is all I will say.
posted @ Wed, May 3, 2006 10:23:16 am EDT from 198.53.28.99

Going back in time to play one's part in the time loops doesn't change history, because the time loops are what causes one to go back in time in the first place.

Let me illustrate with "M.I.A." Goliath goes back in time to 1940 to meet Griff and (eventually) take him forward in time to the 1990's because Leo and Una were blaming him for Griff's disappearance back in 1940, and had even kidnapped his friends in bitter retaliation. If Goliath had never visited 1940, Leo and Una would not associate him with Griff's disappearance and would not have kidnapped Elisa, Angela, and Bronx, thus prompting his time travel journey - indeed, without his visit to 1940, there'd be no war memorial of himself and Griff prompting him and his friends to visit Leo and Una's shop and meet them.

Come to think of it, if time travellers could change the past, then any visit to the past - any visit at all - would change things simply by adding an extra solid body's presence. (Aris Katsaris, back when he came here some years ago, had a few things to say about it.)
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Wed, May 3, 2006 7:43:53 am EDT from 4.244.213.30

What I meant was that I think Goliath first learned that history couldn't be changed when he got back to 1995. This was after he had spoken to Demona's younger self. So I was asking if, before he learned this, was he wondering if his little speech might not have consequences, such as him and his clan never coming to Manhattan? And then he gets back to where he belongs in the timeline and learns this is not the case.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Wondering and dreaming, the words have different meanings... yes, they did..." -Pink Floyd.
posted @ Wed, May 3, 2006 6:31:39 am EDT from 69.174.3.196

Blaqthourne & Crimson Fury - <If you can time travel, does an immutable history lead to fatalism?> Only with regards to your knowledge of what really happenned. If history is immutable and you witnessed a man driving down a street at 10pm and traveled back in time, nothing you can do can stop that man from driving down said street at 10pm. On the other hand, let's say you look like your dad and you travel back in time to shoot a guy who killed your father. You either a)end up shooting the identical twin of the guy who killed your father (and set up a chain of events leading to your father's death) or b)your gunshot isn't fatal. < do you already have a room and are looking for a roommate, or are you in search of someone who has booked a room?> umm. I don't have a room booked yet and I'm looking for a roommate. Said roommate doesn't necessarily have to have a room booked yet.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity? Looking for a roommate for the gathering.
posted @ Wed, May 3, 2006 3:07:51 am EDT from 63.232.249.216

dph_of_rules> Let me clarify. If you can time travel, does an immutable history lead to fatalism?
Oh, btw, do you already have a room and are looking for a roommate, or are you in search of someone who has booked a room?
Blaqthourne & Crimson Fury
Abuse of animals never killed anyone.
posted @ Wed, May 3, 2006 2:26:08 am EDT from 4.230.255.62

I like the time travel rules imposed by gargoyles the best because of simplicity. Time travel is frequently abused.

Either one of two rules with regard to time travel I prefer:
1)history is immutable or
2)history can be altered, but time travel is neither cheap nor frequent

I think Star Trek really blew it bad with regards to time travel. Way back in st:os, they found a relatively cheap way to travel back in time, and never really followed up on the reprocussions of that. If time travel is exceptionally cheap (like it is in Star Trek), then basic military operations would require its use as a means of gathering intelligence. Basically, cheap time travel means sneak attacks become non existant, peace treaties are severely limited because you know when your enemy is going to break them, double agents can't exist because, if their identities are ever recorded in history books, they promptly get arrested, . . etc . . Basically it turns that universe into a boring place to live because every action is already known.

I don't think history being immutable leads to fatalism. If you can't travel through time, you can't alter history and your fate is/has been/will be sealed and can't be unsealed by yourself unless you travel outside time or you interact with somebody who has traveled outside of time.

The irony of Demona's actions during Vows is apparant, but there is another thought-provoking question: Would the massacre have happenned if Demona hadn't traveled back in time to prevent it? I have to say the answer is yes. Way back during season 1, Greg Weisman had no idea that Demona had traveled back in time to prevent the tragedy, but the tragedy still occurred. With the way the humans were treating the gargoyles, can you say the tragedy wouldn't occur? I can't. Goliath was stuck in a no-man's land with regards to what to do. The only way he could have had a choice was if he knew a place where he could move his entire clan to where he had human protections. Did such a place exist? Probably not.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity? Looking for a roommate for the gathering.
posted @ Wed, May 3, 2006 1:49:03 am EDT from 63.232.249.188

"You musn't interfere with the past! Don't do anything that affects anything! Unless it turns out you were supposed to do it, in which case, for the love of God, don't not do it!"--Prof. Farnsworth (Futurama)

Time travel> Doesn't the "immutable-timeline", as one person put it, lead to fatalism?

With regards to the time loop that comes with time travel like in Gargoyles, doesn't there have to be some beginning to the loop (kinda like the "first mover" in arguments regarding the existance of God)?
If not, then doesn't there have to exist these loops on an already existing time line? Thus, you just happen to stumble into them. But, if you don't just stumble into the preexisting loops, you would have to create them. Therefore, if you have to create the loops, you do in fact change the past.

I think time travel without the ability to change events is self-contradictory. If you can't change events, you're really not time-travelling.

I personally don't believe that time travel is possible, but I still find it interesting seeing how people think it would work. To me, about the closest thing to time travel would be through being frozen (a la Planet of the Apes or Futurama), if that's possible. From your point of view, you did travel into the future. So I guess you could time travel forward, but I don't see any way you could travel backward through time.

An interesting view on how time flows, or something similar, is in the movie (never read the book/short story it was based on) The Langoliers.
Blaqthourne & Crimson Fury
Abuse of animals never killed anyone.
posted @ Wed, May 3, 2006 12:54:29 am EDT from 4.230.255.178

LordGargFan> You've hit upon the exact reason why the Gargoyles version of time travel is the only one that makes much sense. Xanatos got the coin from himself which led to him getting the coin from himself. Its a time loop, and its a stable time loop. You can't change it. In the Gargoyles Universe, your hypothetical questions are meaningless. Goliath would not stay in 994 because he didn't stay in 994. "Time travels funny that way."
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"I sometimes go to my own little world, but that's okay, they know me there." - Joel Hodgson
posted @ Tue, May 2, 2006 11:20:38 pm EDT from 150.201.114.132

LORD GARG FAN> She remembered it, but acted anyway.

"I know from experience my arrival through the flames will attract one other."
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
Each year, the Rainforest is responsible for over three thousand deaths from accidents, attacks or illnesses. There are over seven hundred things in the Rainforest that cause cancer. Join the fight now and help stop the Rainforest before it's too late.
posted @ Tue, May 2, 2006 10:49:02 pm EDT from 68.202.14.214

Sometime Lurker : Out of curiousity, what name did you post with back when you were a regular?
Spen
"There are three kinds of people; those who can't count, and those who can." - Wilek Nereus
posted @ Tue, May 2, 2006 10:23:19 pm EDT from 216.248.119.208

Goliath in "Vows": We all know that History is immutable. But does that immutability override something as complex as a brain?

Here's what I'm going for:

Demona had _subliminal_ memories of what Goliath had said in "Vows" that she did not or even could not act upon. What would have happened had Goliath stayed in 994? Would the situation have played out exactly the same as it did the "first time?" Or would Demona have remembered it, but could not or did not act upon what Goliath had said. Could Demona have remembered what Goliath said?

If she could not have, then how did Xanatos get that coin? He gave the coin to someone who was given instructions to follow through on. The implication is that they were. Would that not be changing history?

I would like to know others' thoughts about this.
Lord GargFan
posted @ Tue, May 2, 2006 9:37:02 pm EDT from 67.185.229.228

I see the point where, as Harvester of Eyes mentioned, it's difficult to find the answer to the question. And if one wants more detail than Ask Greg offers, we are the people to ask :)

I'd certainly never advocate being unpleasant to a newcomer (or anyone else) for asking an honest question, but I suppose I'm cranky from seeing the same thing asked repeatedly on other boards when there are already FAQs to answer those questions that everyone asks.
Stormy
posted @ Tue, May 2, 2006 9:27:59 pm EDT from 142.167.211.248

Harvester> You've touched on an interesting point about the immutable-timeline format. What if someone is aware that history cannot be changed, but then tries to change something simple? That's one of the trickiest things about writing good single-history time-travel fiction. Most of the time, it's easiest if the characters doing the time travelling just don't quite know how it works. In the case of Goliath, he just doesn't try to change things once he figures out he can't. I know some people who would devise experiments to challenge the immutability of time if they had access to the Phoenix Gate.
Vid the Kid - [vid the kid at g mail dot com]
Does this font make me look fat?
posted @ Tue, May 2, 2006 9:25:36 pm EDT from 209.239.132.223

I guess from now on, I'll just stick to good old-fashioned innuendo.

Reno: I don't know. I think there are times when more than one Reno might not be a bad thing.

Guandalug: Speaking of synopses, did you get my e-mail a few weeks ago?

Matt: Yeah. I actually hate looking through the archives. I'll do a search on what I want, and it's rare that my search will yield less than 100 responses.

Todd: One thing I find interesing is that I don't think Goliath knew that history was immutable when he gave that little motivational speech to the younger version of Demona in "Vows." Which makes me wonder if he thought, at that point in time, that he might be running the risk of going back to 1995 and discovering that a few things might be amiss (such as his clan not being there).
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Wondering and dreaming, the words have different meanings... yes, they did..." -Pink Floyd.
posted @ Tue, May 2, 2006 9:13:08 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

Hey people, KC told me you guys were talking about time travel, and I just had to come in and comment.

The whole single-history ("time is immutable") set of time-travel rules is actually my favorite. This is because it is the most intellectually-challenging, and it has the strictest rules. Allowing history to be changed just opens the door to a LOT of inconsistency, unless the author is VERY thoughtful of how their version of time travel should work.
Vid the Kid - [vid the kid at g mail dot com]
Does this font make me look fat?
posted @ Tue, May 2, 2006 9:03:33 pm EDT from 209.239.132.223

Sometime Lurker> I agreee whole-heartedly.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
that is all I will say.
posted @ Tue, May 2, 2006 8:22:25 pm EDT from 198.53.28.99

The reason why Greg wanted the "time is immutable" concept was that if time travel could change the past, then there'd be the danger of the characters using it to change history so that the Wyvern Massacre never took place, for example, thus meaning no series (or a very different one, at least). And also because a major element of the series was that actions have consequences - being able to undo those actions would go against that concept.
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Tue, May 2, 2006 7:57:20 pm EDT from 4.244.18.9

Um, i thought i read (i scanned) in last week's comments about's demona and angela's new wardrobe? Did they release more comic book info? Is there any links?
Dan
posted @ Tue, May 2, 2006 7:43:47 pm EDT from 68.42.25.193

Time Travel>I don't know if I care much for the Gargoyles' "time is immutable" stance. Why would someone want to go back in time other than to prevent a mistake? The so-called "butterfly effect" is the reason that time travel is facinating to some people. They can undo what they've done; added years to their lives by not smoking, not done drugs in high school, etc. Maybe I've completely deviated from what we _were_ talking about, but this was the first thing that came to mind when the subject came up.

Gregarius> I disagree about "outsiders being completely repulsed." As a late-comer myself, though having read the comments posted for about a year before actually posting onto it, I thought that I was very welcomed. If I was completely ignored, and felt an atmosphere of "Oh, was there a non-regular speaking?" I would not have come back. I do agree that some newcomers have launched huge arguements, but generally the atmosphere is that we welcome the newcomers with open arms into the internet fandom and give them their complimentary world-famous Comment Room Cookie. From what I have seen, we are always happy to answer questions when we can and to defer questions to Ask Greg when we cannot answer them. I think that we have one of the smallest flame-tendency in our fandom. And that somewhat comes from the nature of the series we are discussing, which promoted acceptance. As for the Comment Room being a "back room hangout," I don't think that we're close to that. We try to keep it work friendly if not "family-friendly." The reason why I said that someone new to this forum would judge the show by our behavior is that we are somewhat representatives of our favorite show. If the series was a dirty, swear-filled ride through New York with these big, scary, foul-mouthed monsters, the atmosphere here would be extremely different. Now I know that everything that I put in this address to JJ Gregarius wasn't all in reply to him, but it flowed that way.

Now, to add to the list of euphemisms that some people had going, one of my personal favorites:
Bovine Excrement.
Lord GargFan
posted @ Tue, May 2, 2006 7:24:23 pm EDT from 67.185.229.228

Concerning vulgarity and cursing...

I'm an occasional lurker here, and would like to say one thing. I used to post here and at the TGS comment room at least six or seven years ago. So even though most of you may think that everyone that's reading and posting here are adults, it's not true. I was only 13 when I became a fan, and I'd wager that some of the people here aren't much older (even if they claim to be). This site isn't restricted solely for adults, its open to various ages. Keep that in mind when you post. If that doesn't matter to you, and you want to 'speak freely,' then make a new forum for that.
Sometime Lurker
posted @ Tue, May 2, 2006 7:10:21 pm EDT from 66.74.220.146

Swearing: Not much to add but I think you should still be careful about swearing because you might be propagating an ancient form of prejudice.

Back to the Future: Technically in that movie time travel is used to create and show off alternate universes where things happen differently then in our timeline (Sort of like moving sideways through time instead of backwards and forwards like in the Gargoyles universe).
Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]
Nazi Germany was the first nation to enact anti-smoking laws. So fight Nazism by supporting your local smoker!
posted @ Tue, May 2, 2006 4:27:20 pm EDT from 69.54.209.15

I strongly disagree with you there, Stormy. I personally think that this site should be called: "Ask Greg (but check the archives and ask the Comment Room first)"
Newbies with questions are more likely to get extensive and detailed answers here from us. We know Ask Greg well, and while a search can give you all the same info, we can condense it and make it understandable than finding bits and pieces of an answer throughout an archive.
I applaud newbies who come to us first with questions. What drives me nuts are the ones that go directly to Greg and the ones who tell us we are wrong when we can offer direct quotes from Greg to back us up.
We are a close group in this Room, and I think we always struggle to welcome newbies, but we do try. I have only seen newbies be outright excluded when they become pests and trolls.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"I sometimes go to my own little world, but that's okay, they know me there." - Joel Hodgson
posted @ Tue, May 2, 2006 3:33:19 pm EDT from 150.201.114.132

Sorry, forgot to put this on my last post--So what I'm saying is that I don't have any hostility to people who are new (we were all new once), but I do admit that I find it irritating when people pop on and ask questions that have already been answered by Ask Greg, already been answered in the archives, etc. Ok, sometimes you can't always find the answer, and that's forgiveable too, but the rest of the board isn't a shortcut to an answer for someone too lazy to research.
Stormy
posted @ Tue, May 2, 2006 3:07:40 pm EDT from 142.167.211.248

Except that the Internet, by nature, will almost always be public. Anyone can come in here and read what's written. And while we may seem like a small group of friends, we need to be aware of the public nature of our discussions.

Most people aren't consciously aware of the fact that what they write on the net will be seen and read by those outside their immediate circle of friends. Think of poor Lori Jareo, who put her self-published Star Wars fanfic up for sale on Amazon.com....her words that "only my family and friends know it's there" ring discordantly now that much of the 'net knows. It's been proven that people will be ruder, use poorer grammer, be more belligerent, be more casual on office place emails than in person because somehow it's "not real" when it's on a computer. Except that it is, and it can come back and bite you.

So, if one wants an environment where one can be utterly casual with one's friends, it demands a closed, members-only forum. I wouldn't advocate that for here.

If this place is coming off as clique-y, hostile to newbies, etc, that's a whole NEW kettle of fish.

(I will note, though, that I've recently started posting on some Star Wars forums thanks to reading Karen Traviss' excellent REPUBLIC COMMANDO novels--and BEFORE I started pestering the board with my questions, I spent about a week reviewing old threads and reading Karen's livejournal. Three quarters of my questions got answered that way, rather than subjecting board members to answer the same thing repeatedly.)
Stormy
posted @ Tue, May 2, 2006 3:04:53 pm EDT from 142.167.211.248

<<On the other hand, it is really tough to be a forward face for a community and a back-room hang-out at the same time.>>
Aye, Marty, there's the rub.

I don't know the exact history of this place, but this comment room *has* developed into a "back-room hang-out." As it is, it cannot be the forward face for the Gargoyles community; just check the posts defending profanity here. Heck, forget profanity; outsiders are generally repulsed, especially if they don't have "Ask Greg" memorized. As I said earlier, the culture is wrong here. This is not what you want it to be or had hoped it would be. I am sorry.

If we want a forward face, we have a new forum to create. and a lot of work to do.

Back to the Future>> BttF uses a different time-travel philosophy. The concept of a "non-working paradox" doesn't really exist there. Using it will just confuse you.

Brooklyn's "Immortality">>
Personally, if I were Brooklyn, the first thing I would ask in 2198 *is* whether I return or not. No use in keeping myself in suspense on that front, is there? MIght as well learn and make my plans with that in mind. Though, I would try to avoid learning anything else; still I can't imagine not learning about world-shaping events such as Goliath's death.

Dragomir>> In Gargoyles, time is immutable. If Brooklyn returns to his clan from his time dance, then he always will return. No action can cause him not to return, just as nothing can make 2+2=5 or 3 or anything other than 4.

Thus, there can be no suspense concerning whether Brooklyn returns, as the audience presumably follows the main series and has seen Brooklyn return already. It is an undeniable, irrevocable fait accompli.

The suspense comes from the journey, not the destination. Read _Dune_, for a good example. And Greg Weisman, if you're reading this, I suggesting this to you, too. I think a little Frank Herbert will help you immensely in writing dramatic stories where characters have foreknowledge of certain events. It can be done.
JJ Gregarius
Like the man said, "There are no problems; only solutions!"
posted @ Tue, May 2, 2006 2:39:11 pm EDT from 206.57.92.155

You know, the use of profanity kind of reminds me of a few different cultures and languages I've studied. It isn't that the use of profanity is Evil or anything, but that it betrays a lack of politeness.

In private among close friends, a general lack of manners in casual discussion reflects the fact that we're comfortable enough with one another to not have to worry about making an ill impression or trying to welcome one another.

In public among strangers, customers, and associates a lack of manners conveys a lack of concern for the same exact things - only without the whole "comfortable enough with eachother to get away with it," vibe. Instead it gives the impression that the outsider does not matter enough to treat with respect or concern.

I suppose that's one of the reasons why we're especially leary of having children fall into habits with profanity - they are too young and inexperienced to make those distinctions reliably. We're still trying to instill the most fundamental concepts of politeness and respect, and giving them too many complicated exceptions and explanations is counter-productive. They parrot more than they rationalize at such ages.

Anyway, I appreciate that this community is so close-knit that we can be so loose and casual with one another. On the other hand, it is really tough to be a forward face for a community and a back-room hang-out at the same time.
Marty Lund - [lundmart [at] comcast [dot] net]
posted @ Tue, May 2, 2006 1:14:39 pm EDT from 198.187.200.254

Dragomir: Click my name to see Eddie.

Swearing: I moderate a Transformers board where we've got a swear filter in place to automatically bleep out/alter cuss words. The board policy is based on the fact that while the board's posters are mostly (but not entirely) adults, the content is the sort of thing that attracts children, and we want to maintain the sort of site where a reasonable parent would gladly let their child visit.
Stormy
posted @ Tue, May 2, 2006 12:40:05 pm EDT from 142.167.211.248

Guandalug la'Fay - 2 things. 1st, last week, I sent you an email to which I have yet ot receive a reply. 2nd, after this week, (even more importantly after Thursday), feel free to bug me about finishing up my episode summary of the Green. I'm in Finals week and I just finished 1 of the 2 final exams that I have to take.
dph
Whatever happenned to simplicity? Looking for a roommate for the gathering.
posted @ Tue, May 2, 2006 12:34:39 pm EDT from 161.31.67.101

Greg Weisman> Sorry, won't happen again

Everyone> I hope that Brook won't be immortal because that would take the suspense out of his time dancing adventures, you know he'll make it back eventually even if he gets eaten by a T-Rex or stabbed by a samurai. Plus, I don't see how traveling in time would make you invulnberable unless you traveled back to save yourself at the last second (leaving a dying alternate version of yourself lying around, eep). Time travel will always give me a headache no matter how fascinating and admittably cool it is. I agree that Brook will try his hardest to remain unaware of whatever fate his own personal future will be, and possibly that of his family. I can't wait to meet his new wife and kid, but does anyone else besides me think it will feel kind of weird getting to know a whole new Brook family after reading the TGS fanfiction for so long (bye bye Ari-chan, it was fun, sniff).

Demonic Lover> for once I agree with you, the poster rocks!

Everyone again> does anyone know where I can find some beaked female garg fanart?
Dragomir
Trust is hard to build, but easy to destroy
posted @ Tue, May 2, 2006 12:00:54 pm EDT from 134.241.91.37

Todd> Haha. Funny.

Brook's Immortality> I'm not sure if Brook ever realizes that he gets back home. I mean, I suppose we will know because Greg has told us he will and we may see him return home in the first episode, but maybe Brook won't know. In the 2198 spinoff, Brook will show up with Fu-Dog and in the Series Proposal Greg writes: "Brooklyn does hope to return to his own time someday, and so makes a special efort not to learn too much about his own "future"." So at that point at least he is unaware if he ever makes it back or not.
How depressing for Brook would it be if he asked Samson or someone whether he made it back or not and Samson says that Brook dissapeared in a ball of flame in 1997 and was never seen again. Brook is smart not to ask, though I'm sure a part of him will want to.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"I sometimes go to my own little world, but that's okay, they know me there." - Joel Hodgson
posted @ Tue, May 2, 2006 10:46:08 am EDT from 150.201.114.132

GUANDALUG - I wish that you hadn't referred to this place as a chat room just now. That could easily get misinterpreted in such a way as to result in a fresh overrunning of "chat room" style comments from newcomers. We've already had too many of those in the past.

Re time travel: This is why I prefer the "Gargoyles" variety, where the person who went back in time had already been there (and in most of the cases provided in the series, went back in time *because* he or she had already been there). It makes things a lot less complicated (except from the point of view of confused members of the audience).

One scene, by the way, that would be tempting to imagine in "Timedancer" (or, indeed, in any time travel story that operates under the Gargoyle Universe rules of "history is immutable"): Brooklyn is walking through a wood in the distant past with somebody who knows that he's a time traveller, when the other person shouts to Brooklyn, "Look out!", alerting him to the fact that he was about to step on a butterfly, though, thanks to the warning, Brooklyn is able to shift his foot so that it doesn't happen. Brooklyn (presumably not quite used to the "time travel rules" yet) asks whether his stepping on a butterfly would have altered the course of history if it had happened; the other person says, "No, but it wouldn't have been much fun for the butterfly, which was why I warned you."
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Tue, May 2, 2006 7:38:05 am EDT from 4.244.211.47

*grumbles* DPH, not Greg.... shouldn't read different things while adding comments to this chatroom :)
Guandalug la'Fay - [guandalug@gargoyles-fans.org]
It has been said that the world is a strange place. This is not true. The world is a VERY strange place.
posted @ Tue, May 2, 2006 6:52:22 am EDT from 80.145.6.170

Greg> That's indeed an essay I'd like to see in the Grimorum, fits right in with the last one by Jurgan. If anybody's going to write such an essay, make sure to send me a copy :)

And speaking of the GFW.... I'm still waiting for a few summaries.......
Guandalug la'Fay - [guandalug@gargoyles-fans.org]
It has been said that the world is a strange place. This is not true. The world is a VERY strange place.
posted @ Tue, May 2, 2006 6:51:34 am EDT from 80.145.6.170

Yeah, I think parts of Back to the Future can best be described as closed loops in time that happened but never occured. Doesn't make any sense.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"I sometimes go to my own little world, but that's okay, they know me there." - Joel Hodgson
posted @ Tue, May 2, 2006 2:11:40 am EDT from 150.201.114.132

This topic of time travel begs an interesting question, which might be a good essay for the Grimorum Arcanorum:
Is Brooklyn, while timedancing, immortal? does he ever realize he will get home, and if so, does that mean he considers himself immortal from that point until he gets home?
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity? Looking for a roommate for the gathering.
posted @ Tue, May 2, 2006 2:09:29 am EDT from 63.232.250.55

Time travel....yeah, back to the Future was a little wierd on the actual treatment but in the end there was not actual Biff getting rich, Marty fixed it (i think, its been a while for me too) so that whole experience was within the past of the people who experienced it, kind of like a closed loop system. I'm not sue if that makes any sense outside my redheaded brain, so sorry if it doesn't :(

Re: cloning, umm....one Reno's enough. Maybe more than enough.
Reno
posted @ Tue, May 2, 2006 1:44:02 am EDT from 71.9.106.172

Yeah, as much as I enjoy the Back to the Future movies, the time travel there doesn't make sense. Its a non-working paradox. Gargoyles time travel makes a lot more sense, even if some people have trouble following it.
And yeah, that Superman thing where he spins the Earth the opposite direction to reverse time always made me laugh because it was so ludicrous.
"And how exactly does time flow on Uranus?" - I suppose according to Superman, time on Uranus travels neither forwards nor backwards, but sideways. And if you can understand what it would be like to travel sideways in time than you are more intelligent than me, cuz I don't see how that would work...
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"It took me fifteen years to discover that I had no talent for writing, but I couldn't give it up because by that time I was too famous." - Robert Benchley
posted @ Tue, May 2, 2006 1:21:59 am EDT from 150.201.114.132

Time travel> With regards to your future self going back to help your current self (kinda like Kyle Reese being sent back in time in The Terminator), wouldn't that aid render the need to go back in time unnecessary? For example, in Back to the Future II, Matt Bluest... er, Biff's going back to 1954 with the sports almanac in order to avoid being the poor (homeless? it's been a while since I've seen Part II) old man he bacame eliminates his being the poor old man, thus he wouldn't be in position to go back in time.

Worst treatment of time travel: Superman, The Movie. Unless I'm misinterpreting the scene, Superman goes back in time because he makes the Earth rotate the opposite way it does. Um, so I guess time travels backward on Venus and Pluto? And how exactly does time flow on Uranus?
Blaqthourne & Crimson Fury
posted @ Tue, May 2, 2006 12:46:37 am EDT from 4.230.255.109

eh...I don't think it's necessarily the responsibility of any fan to "represent" the product to those unfamiliar with it. "Gargoyles" should sell itself on its own merits, not condemned because of the actions of its fans. If someone happens to come to the comment room and see something they don't like, and then chooses to not be a part of the fandom or reject the show/comic book because of the behavior or language of the fans, well that's the individual's problem. I don't think it's fair to put blame on people not getting into the show or comic book because the fans might be seen as potty-mouth (especially considering the nature of online forums). The disclaimer at the bottom makes it clear that none of the views expressed here have anything to do with the people making the show.

As for swearing, I do believe people should be responsible about it, if only to be sensitive to those who don't like it. Though by the same token, those who don't like it should also understand and not take it so seriously when words are clearly use in a non-malicious manner.
Obed - [angelgear2000@yahoo.com]
o.O
posted @ Mon, May 1, 2006 10:48:49 pm EDT from 71.57.178.10

Incidentally, the recent profanity discussion reminds me of a Gargoyles fanfic that I read some years ago where Demona's brewing up a fresh spell to use against Goliath, and just as she's uttering the incantation, Puck sneaks up behind her and yanks her tail. Demona interrupts the spell to shout a few words of the "&*#*$%(#($#" variety (that's how it did the profanity in the story), with the result that her spell malfunctions so that Goliath finds himself uttering a lot of gratuitous swear-words until Puck finally undoes the spell (and tells Goliath that what Demona had planned for him was a lot worse).
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Mon, May 1, 2006 9:41:00 pm EDT from 4.244.211.202

I agree with Wingless and Greg W. I swear a lot, yes, but more in real-life then online and only in moderation. Certainly never when there's children around. You gotta be careful about these things.
King Cobra3 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
"Got it!" -Lexington, Awakening IV
posted @ Mon, May 1, 2006 9:20:52 pm EDT from 209.239.132.86

Been waiting for a reason to use this pic. Didn't think I would have to wait long.
Christine - [<---------- CLICK ME!!!!!]
posted @ Mon, May 1, 2006 9:14:44 pm EDT from 71.112.172.65

*Also agrees with Demonskrye & LordGargFan* Sure, everyone comes from a different background - so their values are different and their use of language may be a little broader. Language has power - and there's a time and place to use such language. I swear like the next person, but I know there's a time and place appropriate to use it - and this forum is NOT the place for it. This is a place for us to discuss and promote our favourite show. To do our best to encourage other people to like it as well. If you find a parent looking in here with their 9 or 10 year old and they discover foul language - do you think that does well to shed a positive light on Gargoyles- both the past show or any future happenings like the Comic or the Gathering? No one can stop it from happening if someone wants to swear, but we're all fans of the show - we can police ourselves if we care enough about the fandom and the show to have it continue live and grow.

You all have heads on your shoulders - please use them before you type. Realize that you could be hurting something you love by the words you use.
Wingless
posted @ Mon, May 1, 2006 8:56:21 pm EDT from 70.27.173.206

I thought that I'd stay out of the CR until this whole thing blew over. Apparently, it's not going to anytime soon.

I'm going to agree with Greg (W.). I think that one's viewpoint of "vulgar" language/acts depends on their background and their own personal feelings. In England, one word (which I will not post out of respect for any British fans that read this and take offense to it) can just go in one ear and out the other with one person, while another's may go apoplectic. I think that censoring oneself while giving a vague idea about what one intends to say will suffice in this room. Since there are no "official" rules, I think that we may want to cater to someone's sensitivities. In a comment room for fans of a show which was produced for children--and even produced by Disney--there are different standards than a forum for, say, South Park. Most of you seem like mature, civilized adults. I don't think that language uncensored like that should be in anyone who fits that category's vocabulary. What if someone rediscovers the show through this forum, and was even debating on whether or not to go to the Gathering, but upon seeing the "indecency" of its fans decided to move on surfing the web? Can we afford to do that? We all want the same thing in the end--to discuss and enjoy together one of our favorite shows.

Now, Demona's measurements (I believe I'm talking to you Greg B.), should not be seriously discussed either. But as a joke ice-breaker, they work perfectly ;).
Lord GargFan
posted @ Mon, May 1, 2006 8:38:47 pm EDT from 67.185.229.228

Demoskyre> Here, here! Exactly what I was thinking. All I've got to say.
Asatira
posted @ Mon, May 1, 2006 8:17:13 pm EDT from 68.117.246.81

Children and this site>> De facto, this is *not* a site for children, Mr. Weisman, no matter how much you or I may wish. The forum culture is inappropriate.

Yes, that does present us with some serious problems. No, I don't know the solution unless Gorebash is willing to allow some sort of moderation feature.

Quoting profanity word-for-word >> After such language has been used one time in a week, does it really matter from that moment on? So, if you wish to refer to such words, why censor yourself? What good does the initial and dashes system (or initial and punctuation system) do when the full word is there for the entire world to see?

Once the virus is let loose, we are SNAFU'ed.
JJ Gregarius
Like the man said, "There are no problems; only solutions!"
posted @ Mon, May 1, 2006 8:00:27 pm EDT from 206.57.92.155

Er, means=meaning.

Using the words already in existence for the forces of light is also an idea...
Ed
posted @ Mon, May 1, 2006 7:46:43 pm EDT from 213.187.38.51

No profanity? ****! ****** ****ing ****-****** *****! **** the ****** **********ing ********* ******* with **** -- ****ing ****** ********** ****** cheese and tomato sandwiches *************!

Perhaps it's time to give some underused words a salary increase and some new, insulting means. Bit a profile use for years of loyal service. I suggest:
invertebrate
globular
indigo
bean
Ed
posted @ Mon, May 1, 2006 7:45:37 pm EDT from 213.187.38.51

A good rule of thumb for posting anywhere:

There is a greater distance between your brain and your fingers than between your brain and your mouth. Please don't type like there isn't.

::goes back to lurking::
Demonskrye
posted @ Mon, May 1, 2006 7:40:59 pm EDT from 209.6.250.47

GOREBASH - Thanks for the link on Raven. It's good, in particular, to see that there's more to him than laying Queen Florence waste and pretending to be one of the few survivors of a massacred gargoyle clan (though I doubt that the story about him setting the moon and sun free was literally true in the Gargoyles Universe, any more than, despite Odin's presence in that same universe, it can be literally true that the world is made up of the remains of the frost giant Ymir after Odin slew him).

The mention of Odin's ravens in that same entry reminds me of my creativity demon about Raven accusing Odin of infringing on his territory by having Hugin and Munin for "pets".

I agree with Greg Weisman about the gratuitous profanity. (For my own part, I see it as not only tacky, but as a very poor substitute for a good vocabulary.)
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Mon, May 1, 2006 7:18:48 pm EDT from 4.244.211.202

I agree with Greg Weisman 100% as we all should. Greg, we all apologize for our profanity and will hopefully limit it to no swearing at all.
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
Sex is like air. It's not that important, until you're not getting any
posted @ Mon, May 1, 2006 6:15:57 pm EDT from 69.234.6.13

O my F~`^ing God! I just saw the poster ! I LOVE IT! YES, NO THERE ARE GOING T BE COMICS WITH AVALON'S ANGEL, ANGELA! YAY! I hope that the rest of us can contribute ideas for the new comics!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! this is going to be the greatrest thing that ever happened in GARGOYLES history! there are also GARGOYLES fonts? Thats FREAKIN' SWEET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Demonic Lover - [Broad23way@yahoo.com]
FREAKIN' SWEET!- Peter Gryphin
posted @ Mon, May 1, 2006 6:15:32 pm EDT from 152.163.100.14

Uh, oh... daddy's back.

I'm not relishing my new role in this comment room, yet here I go again...


Or put another way... Look, it's not my room. It's Gore's, and he came and went and didn't even comment on this. So I should probably shut up. Yet here I go again...

I would take it as an immense personal favor if ALL OF YOU would stop with the profanity and vulgarity. I don't want to have an intellectual argument about it. I have my opinions on the subject, and they are -- among other things -- wildly inconsistent. (Anyone who's ever attended one of my Blue Mug-A-Guests at a Gathering, will know that I'm not immune to swearing.)

But my reasoning here is purely pragmatic. We're trying to bring in NEW FANS of ALL AGES. I'm hoping that in particular the comic book and DVDs will help with that. So let's say we find an eleven year old kid who loves Gargoyles and wants to go on-line and talk about it with other fans. This kid's parent responsibly checks out potential websites... sees all your LOVELY, LOVELY posts of the last two weeks (including the ones that criticize the swearing by QUOTING IT WORD FOR WORD) and says, "Sorry, honey, but Station Eight is definitely off-limits."

To which, my response is... "Thanks, gang. That was helpful."
Greg Weisman
"If you're not sick of me yet... when will you be?"
posted @ Mon, May 1, 2006 5:31:16 pm EDT from 72.25.64.98

One further point of clarity and then I'll speak no more of it. I never said anything about mothers being raped. They were SEDUCED. The movie simply got their phone numbers afterward, promised to call, and then broke that promise. Big difference, since those mothers were sober and knew what they were doing. But nothing was forced upon anyone. Well, anyone human. ( ;

Greg B: If the Janet Jackson thing a few years ago taught me anything, it's that the people at the FCC all need to get hobbies. Or laid. Although that could count as a hobby, depending on one's tastes.

Reno: <Street fighter, crappy game, crappy movie. Was anyone surprised by how bad it was? Come on van Damme is your lead and he can't act his way out of a paper bag even if he had a flamethrower.> I love you. Can I have a swab of the inside of your mouth? I want to clone you.

Dragomir: You might want to re-read last Saturday's posts, my friend. I never said I liked the Mortal Kombats. Quite the opposite, actually.

Patrick: Actually, I think the keys thing points out a paradox. They needed to hide the keys after they'd passed the report, which they couldn't do unless the historical figures were out of jail. And they couldn't get them out of jail without the keys, which they couldn't go back in time to get until after the report. Maybe one of the time paradoxes discussed at ASK GREG could fix that situation, but that movie seemed to treat time in a very linear manner. Even though they could go anywhere, the present was still moving forward. If they went back in time for five hours and then returned to the point where they'd left, it would still be five hours later. At least that's how Rufus seemed to explain it to them. But I'm willing to overlook all that, because the movie was funny as hell (aw, nuts, now I've probably gone and upset Blaqthorne. Sorry in advance).
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"May Day! Why, that's the Russian New Year! Oh, and we'll have a big parade and serve hot hors d'oeuvres..." -Stephen Stucker ("Airplane!")
posted @ Mon, May 1, 2006 5:29:36 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

Re: Street fighter, crappy game, crappy movie. Was anyone surprised by how bad it was? Come on van Damme is your lead and he can't act his way out of a paper bag even if he had a flamethrower.

Re: Bill and Ted, immortal perhaps but not free of pain. Getting shot in the gut and slowly bleeding out for a couple hours isn't going to be a pleasant experience. And if the past truly is immutable, would not the timesream find a way to ensure the events happened? But you're right...time travel is interesting. And makes for at least three good Micheal J. Fox movies.
Reno
New York, New York...it's a hell of a town
posted @ Mon, May 1, 2006 3:37:17 pm EDT from 71.9.106.172

"We're all adults here"

I don't know why people keep saying that. We are not necessarily all adults here. As I said before, Gargoyles was largely aimed at preteens. Are there any explicit rules in this room? Frankly, I'm kind of surprised that there aren't any, or at least not that I've seen. Regardless, though, we can't say that we're all adults, as a ten year old could come in at any moment.

Also, I disagree that other countries are far more advanced than we are culturally. In Japan, they are forbidden from ever showing genitals at all, even on pay television. They have to blur any pubic hair that is visible. Much of what's on HBO, Cinemax, etc. would never be aired in Japan. They don't have looser standards than we; they just have different priorities.
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
posted @ Mon, May 1, 2006 2:42:33 pm EDT from 68.59.43.150

Profanity>> The weird thing is, *I* am not too upset with Harvester. I'm just concerned that people don't see how what he said could be quite offensive to many.

Time Travel and Immortality>> Yup, Patrick. That's why I want Brooklyn to find out he returned to New York in TimeDancer, so that the focus is less on "Will Brooklyn survive?' (Well, duh!) and more on "What will Brooklyn do with his invulnerability?" I also think this relates to the Brooklyn's "choice" which Greg Weisman mentioned in his previews of 2198; sometime, Brooklyn might choose to put himself in deadly peril, knowing that that will force the Phoenix Gate to whisk him away, rendering him unable to help Samson any further.

Fourth Wall>> Just saw "The Price" again. It appears to me that Brooklyn is talking to a point just behind Broadway, namely, the camera!

Or is it? I can't identify the black image in the lower right of the screen. Also, I'm trying to work out a way that the camera was using Broadway's POV, but position Broadway would have to be in just seems too bizarre to me. It's like Broadway's arms grew.
JJ Gregarius
Like the man said, "There are no problems; only solutions!"
posted @ Mon, May 1, 2006 2:37:05 pm EDT from 206.57.92.155

One big reason NOT to use profanity in this comment room is that some of us like too visit this site from computers at work during our lunch break, and R-rated dialog is not work safe in any context.

Time travel is always good for a discussion. Here's a thought that occurred to me after catching the end of "Bill and Ted" on cable the other night. Let's assume you have a way of traveling through time, and you're faced with a situation where some intervention from your future self would be helpful. So you make a promise to yourself that sometime later, you will travel back into the past and provide some assistance to yourself, such as how Bill and Ted left a set of keys for themselves to find. The question then becomes... between the time that you've received benefit of that assistance from your future self, and the time that you travel back to render it... are you essentially immortal if the past is indeed immutable? You already know that you sucessfully made it back to give yourself a hand, so nothing can prevent you from living long enough to go back, right? Because that would create a temporatl paradox that might rip the universe a new black hole.

Does everyone's brain hurt now? ;)

53 days left until The Gathering 2006 in Valencia, California!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2006]
"Do people laugh at the things you say? Do you get paid? Then tell Bill [Cosby] to have a Coke and a smile and shut up!" - Eddie Murphy, quoting Richard Pryor's advice to him.
posted @ Mon, May 1, 2006 1:09:32 pm EDT from 24.106.128.24

Hi everyone. I don't think anyone in this room means to offend anybody else, I have found you all very welcoming, but sometimes strong disagreements do happen e.g. about swearing. I'm from Europe, and hear alot of swearing outside my home, from the media etc everyday, and I do find it offensive - as that's it main purpose afterall. In my opinion, swearing shows lack of repect for the people in your company, and if that's an old-fashioned view, so be it!
Of course we all swear sometimes, but I think it's a big shame for people to accept swearing as a normal part of daily communication and I think it should be curbed if people find it offensive. No one will die here either if swearing is left out, but it seems people here will be grateful for it. Just my thoughts on it. Peace.
Nikki
posted @ Mon, May 1, 2006 1:06:16 pm EDT from 62.252.32.16

Greg B> Here, here GB! For once I agree with you completely (and I mean this in a good way, no sarcasm). It amazes me how people can be so easily offended by some things and not others, in this case, four letter words. Rape isn't funny of course, but Harvester wasn't trying to insult anybody (besides, first time I recall him ever cussing in this room). We're all adults here, so as long as we keep the swearing within reason and don't actually try to hurt someone's feelings, I don't see the harm in any of this. We definately need to lighten up on the censorship in this country (Europe and Japan are way ahead of us in that regard, which is why I prefer Japanese animation over U.S. animation, except in the case of shows like Gargoyles and HBO's Spawn).
Dragomir
"Okay, okay, I'm going to count to three and when I open my eye I expect the guilty party who stole my other eye to step forward," declares Odin as he shuts his one good eyeball. Harvester and Puck smile mischievously as they quickly push a startled Raven forward.
posted @ Mon, May 1, 2006 12:47:48 pm EDT from 134.241.91.119

Greg> I don't want to get into an extended discussion on this, since neither of us is likely to sway the other to our point of view. I just want to reply to a few of your comments, and then I'll be done.

"Well, this is just my opinion, but I think people like that really need to get over themselves. Seriously. It's long past time America shed it's puritanical roots and came into the modern age in regards to things like this."
And in my opinion, its a shame that sex, something that I've always found to be intimate and special, has become so crass and banal.

"A four letter word means nothing."
I disagree. If it means nothing, why even use it? If it means nothing, why defend its use? The fact is, it does mean something, to me and to others if not to you.

I hope there's no animosity here. You're from New York; I'm from the Midwest. I appreciate getting to know others' points of view, even if I don't agree with them.
Phil - [p1anderson@go.com]
posted @ Mon, May 1, 2006 12:46:39 pm EDT from 69.129.121.95

PHIL> <<It is a word that represents a concept that, used carelessly, is offensive to many, many people.>>

Well, this is just my opinion, but I think people like that really need to get over themselves. Seriously. It's long past time America shed it's puritanical roots and came into the modern age in regards to things like this.

I am an American. A proud American, I love my country, but, this is one area where I think the Europeans are more enlightened than we are.

A four letter word means nothing. Sure, I am not using one right now, no real reason to. Like I said last week, real obscenities lie in actions. Now, some words can be actions. Context is important, and I saw no negative context in Harvester's post.

Or, maybe I'm thick skinned because I am a born and bred New Yorker.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
Each year, the Rainforest is responsible for over three thousand deaths from accidents, attacks or illnesses. There are over seven hundred things in the Rainforest that cause cancer. Join the fight now and help stop the Rainforest before it's too late.
posted @ Mon, May 1, 2006 10:35:31 am EDT from 68.202.14.214

Just an interesting link to share. It's a site about Native American gods and includes a few bits on Raven and Coyote.

http://www.godchecker.com/pantheon/native_american-mythology.php?deity=RAVEN
Gorebash - [gorebash@s8.org]
posted @ Mon, May 1, 2006 9:53:28 am EDT from 207.206.247.239

I have to side with Blaqthorne. I was disturbed by last week's outburst of vulgarity. Especially (as someone has mentioned) because it was "justified" as an expression of joy and celebration. As I see it, there's nothing particularly joyful or celebratory or triumphant about rape and sexual perversion.

And Greg B, those four letters were put together to make a word, which means something. No one would be bothered if I wrote "hjxo" because it doesn't mean anything. "Fuck" is not just four letters. It is a word that represents a concept that, used carelessly, is offensive to many, many people.
Phil - [p1anderson@go.com]
posted @ Mon, May 1, 2006 9:45:49 am EDT from 69.129.121.95

Harvester> I agree with you one hundred percent, the Street Fighter movie was AWFUL! Acting bad, costumes bad, and no one actually used any of their special attacks from the game (unless you count Bison's lame lightning bolt attacks). I agree that the Mortal Kombat movies are great, especially the first one (love the Reptile fight, but wish we could have seen some of kitana's brutality moves). I saw a trailer for a Dead Or Alive live action movie on I Tube.Com, Ayane looks great, but the others...go see for yourself man (they have lots of Garg AMVs on I-Tube as well)

Blaq> Dude, me and my friends at work swear all the time and none of us are suicidal. Sure, we're careful about what we say around kids and what not, but come on, we're all obviously mostly adults here right? Most gargs fans today are those who watched the show when they were little and grew an interest in it again later, like me. I agree there are times when swearing is inappropriate, but seriously, don't start going all crazed censorship guy on us, okay? Its no big deal. By The Dragon (fave gargoyle curse phrase)
Dragomir
Trust is hard to build, but easy to destroy
posted @ Mon, May 1, 2006 8:27:08 am EDT from 134.241.91.108

JJ Gregarius: "Anyhow, I believe Brooklyn *did* break the fourth wall in "The Price." Remember the scene where Brook was hanging onto a wall, catching his breath as it were, and muttering to the camera?"

Actually, I think he was talking to Broadway. Notice Broadway is to his right, where Broadway's also hanging from the wall. I think. I need to watch that episode again, but I'm pretty sure he's talking to Broadway.

But who knows? Maybe he did break the fourth wall and Greg got away with it by making it look like he was actually talking to another character. You could also say Puck was addressing Xanatos and Goliath in The Gathering: Part II when he said "I'm on a roll" while looking at the camera.

And hey, maybe Goliath was breaking the fourth wall in The Mirror when he was talking about the Children of Oberon! Who knows? :P
D. Taina
"Orday rewindum tapus!" - The Heroes Awaken Game
posted @ Mon, May 1, 2006 8:14:03 am EDT from 172.136.107.228

Blaqthorne: You were bitten by a four-letter word as a child, weren't you?

And to a few people, I'd just like to say that I don't advocate rape, unless it's somehow related to one of the movies based on video games that I've seen. I've suffered through some pretty awful ones. I mean, find me one person who wasn't thinking violent thoughts about the director of "Street Fighter" (or Van Damne, for that matter) after watching it. I still say that "movie" was responsible for Raul Julia's death.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"And me, I'm here to sing along, and I'm not concerned with right and wrongs, just asking questions that belong without an answer." -Ian Anderson
posted @ Mon, May 1, 2006 6:35:05 am EDT from 69.174.3.196

oh shoot....uh...ten!
Reno
posted @ Mon, May 1, 2006 4:29:34 am EDT from 71.9.106.172

By my count, we're still waiting for ten.
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
posted @ Mon, May 1, 2006 4:08:08 am EDT from 68.58.253.131

Don't worry, Spen.

I think we've piquaded the Top Ten for this week quite well already.

--JJ
JJ Gregarius
Like the man said, "There are no problems; only solutions!"
posted @ Mon, May 1, 2006 1:28:45 am EDT from 206.57.92.155

Or tenth.
Spen
"There are three kinds of people; those who can't count, and those who can." - Wilek Nereus
posted @ Mon, May 1, 2006 1:26:23 am EDT from 216.248.119.208

...or fahrhändichkeit...

Anway, Warcrafter, do you realize how funny your post reads after last Sunday?

--JJ
JJ Gregarius
Like the man said, "There are no problems; only solutions!"
posted @ Mon, May 1, 2006 1:26:07 am EDT from 206.57.92.155

Ninth! I thought the top ten race would be over by now.
Spen
"There are three kinds of people; those who can't count, and those who can." - Wilek Nereus
posted @ Mon, May 1, 2006 1:25:57 am EDT from 216.248.119.208

This is the last I'll say on this.
I'm sorry that I tried to allude to some sort of unwritten standards in this room.

GBishansky> I am and have been perfectly calm. "It's just four letters." So, if I procured a picture of your mother and graphically altered it to show someone sodomising her and posted it, you wouldn't have any problem with that because after all it's "just a string of ones and zeroes?"
"Just, one simple little word. No one dies from them." Are you sure about that? I wouldn't be surprised if there are examples of kids who get nothing but verbal abuse about how they won't amount to anything, are worthless, etc. and then commit suicide.
Sure, only Gorebash has the ability to either delete a post or ban someone. But you're saying that others here can't call anyone on what they think is going over the line of decency?

Harvester> Um, yes you were defending your actions by using the argument that "The rest of the words are words you can say on network TV now."
Blaqthourne & Crimson Fury
posted @ Mon, May 1, 2006 1:25:43 am EDT from 4.230.255.226

Words like !#&%!, !#*&!, !@&$! or anything similar could be avoided, but if it has to be said try to change it so it isn't as bad for example:

Son of a !#&%! could be son of a biscuit
F!#%! could be fuheck or fart
S!#%@ could be spit, shiza, or shnikies
Or, you could just simply say nutty fudgekins representing any of these (No one has to obey these)
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
Sex is like air. It's not that important, until you're not getting any
posted @ Mon, May 1, 2006 1:19:02 am EDT from 69.234.6.13

Ahh, matt!
Just invent a word like "fahrhändlichkeit" and claim it is the the ordinal numeral that corresponds to whatever place you were in the top ten.
--JJ
JJ Gregarius
Like the man said, "There are no problems; only solutions!"
posted @ Mon, May 1, 2006 1:08:09 am EDT from 206.57.92.155

8TH!!!

I think...
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"It took me fifteen years to discover that I had no talent for writing, but I couldn't give it up because by that time I was too famous." - Robert Benchley
posted @ Mon, May 1, 2006 12:58:50 am EDT from 150.201.114.132

I am the terror that flaps in the night!
I am the numeral that is in the readers' minds!
I am... not Darkwing Duck blast it. (or should I say fuck it, the way things are going?)

Anyway, fair warning to Greg B.: did you realize what you accidentally said yesterday? My Inner Prude is preventing me from laying on something that's been in the works for years now. Please kiss the ring on the Madam Prude's hand now.

Anyhow, I believe Brooklyn *did* break the fourth wall in "The Price." Remember the scene where Brook was hanging onto a wall, catching his breath as it were, and muttering to the camera?
JJ Gregarius
Like the man said, "There are no problems; only solutions!"
posted @ Mon, May 1, 2006 12:51:07 am EDT from 206.57.92.155

Battle Beast: So it is. I didn't realize that- thank you for pointing it out. I don't mind, since I'm the same way. For instance, when you said "it just drive's me crazy," I was twitching convulsively over that unnecessary apostrophe.
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
"Die, die, we all pass away/ But don't wear a frown, 'cause it's really okay./ You might try to hide, and you might try to pray/ But we all end up the remains of the day." -"Remains of the Day," from Tim Burton's Corpse Bride
posted @ Mon, May 1, 2006 12:49:03 am EDT from 68.58.253.131

Seventh?
Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
posted @ Mon, May 1, 2006 12:44:39 am EDT from 71.112.172.65

Jurgan> It's just "Corpse Bride," not "'The' Corpse Bride."

Just like it isn't "The Family Guy," just "Family Guy."

(Sorry. I really am... it just drive's me crazy like you wouldn't belive. Sorry!)
Battle Beast - [Canada]
that is all I will say.
posted @ Mon, May 1, 2006 12:29:19 am EDT from 198.53.28.99

"Actually, it was about raping innocent animals (and plants?!??)
There's a difference between saying "fucking-A" and "it fucked your dog," you know what I mean?"

Agreed- saying "that movie was so f***ing awesome, it f***ing rocked" isn't that bad, but graphically describing sexual acts such as rape can be pretty offensive, especially given that this is a site based around a show aimed primarily at preteenagers and there was no warning (saying "go here to read my sexually explicit fanfiction" gives people a chance to avoid it).

"It'd be hilarious if something bad happened to the Clan in the comic and somebody said 'What the E**n P*x is going on?!'"

Doubt we'll see anything that self-referential in the comic, but I actually do that. It's especially useful when I'm working and can't swear in front of customers. Speaking of self-referential, with Greg not having to worry as much about editing on the comic, does anyone think we might see Puck break the fourth wall (i.e., talk directly to the audience)? I'm not too fond of the idea, but I know it was one of Greg's darlings, and he fought unsuccessfully for its inclusion in "The Mirror." However, it does seem like a device that might work better on the printed page than on television.
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
"Die, die, we all pass away/ But don't wear a frown, 'cause it's really okay./ You might try to hide, and you might try to pray/ But we all end up the remains of the day." -"Remains of the Day," from The Corpse Bride
posted @ Mon, May 1, 2006 12:26:31 am EDT from 68.58.253.131

The big 5!
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
"Die, die, we all pass away/ But don't wear a frown, 'cause it's really okay./ You might try to hide, and you might try to pray/ But we all end up the remains of the day." -"Remains of the Day," from The Corpse Bride
posted @ Mon, May 1, 2006 12:15:04 am EDT from 68.58.253.131

Uh... fourth?! O.O
The Sadistic Cow - [kharrigan@imseeingatherapist.com]
Constant vigilance!
posted @ Mon, May 1, 2006 12:12:27 am EDT from 69.157.0.244

Finally made the top ten!
Battle Beast - [Canada]
that is all I will say.
posted @ Mon, May 1, 2006 12:08:53 am EDT from 198.53.28.99

Third!!!
Battle Beast - [Canada]
that is all I will say.
posted @ Mon, May 1, 2006 12:07:56 am EDT from 198.53.28.99

Blast! Second by only four seconds!!

Oh, and Stormy (assuming you come by the room sometime this week), thanks again for giving those figures to Dave(-astator). Frankly, I don't think I can stop thanking you, but I guess I'll have to. ;)

Was great seeing you at the Con on Saturday!
BrooksBabe
"Why does he have to kill them to prove his point? Can't he just show them a pie chart or something?" --Tom Servo
posted @ Mon, May 1, 2006 12:03:38 am EDT from 64.228.109.151

First!
BrooksBabe
"Why does he have to kill them to prove his point? Can't he just show them a pie chart or something?" --Tom Servo
posted @ Mon, May 1, 2006 12:00:20 am EDT from 64.228.109.151

1st
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
Sex is like air. It's not that important, until you're not getting any
posted @ Mon, May 1, 2006 12:00:16 am EDT from 69.234.6.13