Comment Room Archive : Gargoyles : Station Eight

HARVESTER - I was amused and delighted to notice from your sig that you've been reading "Unfinished Tales" by J. R. R. Tolkien. (It's a line that certainly fits in well with "Gargoyles", too - take a look at Demona and the Wyvern Massacre. One of Demona's motives for her part in the betrayal is her fear that the humans in Castle Wyvern will carry out the horrible slaughter that she'd seen in "Vows" - and it turns out that her very effort to prevent the massacre is what helps cause it.)
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Sun, Jun 18, 2006 7:45:39 pm EDT from 4.244.18.120

I don't care what the artwork looks like - granted it does paly a small part - but as long as I'm getting new cannon, and have new material to make refried refried beans out of, then I'm happy.

If I offended anyone last night, sorry. I was up all night partying on Whyte ave last night and was a bit tired. (The Oilers won.)

ONE GAME TO GO, BOYS!
Battle Beast - [Canada]
GO OILERS GO!!! GO OILERS GO!!! GO OILERS GO!!! GO OILERS GO!!! GO OILERS GO!!! GO OILERS GO!!! GO OILERS GO!!! GO OILERS GO!!! GO OILERS GO!!! ... ...
posted @ Sun, Jun 18, 2006 7:41:31 pm EDT from 198.53.28.99

Oops. Spoke a little too prematurely. The person who mentioned this to me just corrected themself, and said that it was a wild guess on their part. Not the first time I've misinterpreted things. probably won't be the last.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"For a man that flies from his fear may find that he has only taken a shortcut to meet it." -Sador, also called Labadal.
posted @ Sun, Jun 18, 2006 2:04:39 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

I just found out who the villain in issue #3 is going to be. I'm excited, especially since at the moment, I'm working on my synopsis for the Goliath Chronicles suckfest, "Generations." Ah, well. Back to work.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"For a man that flies from his fear may find that he has only taken a shortcut to meet it." -Sador, also called Labadal.
posted @ Sun, Jun 18, 2006 1:38:32 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

While I think we're doing pretty well in discussing our feelings about the comic so far, I really don't wan tthis to devlove into a "real fans" shouting match. People are going to have their own feelings about the comic from what we've seen and even more so when it actually comes out this week. Some are going to love it no matter what. Others might like the artwork just fine. Others might have a beef with the artwork, but still buy it. Still others might be really unhappy with the artwork and not buy the books. Some people are going to opt to hold offpicking up the book for any number of reasons. Heck, there may even be some people who pick up the first issue and find that the whole thing just doesn't live up to their expectations. I think it's all fine. We're not all going to feel the same way about the comic and as long as it stays fairly civil, it's fine to talk about what we like and don't like.

Personally, the art matters quite a lot to me. If I'm reading a comic just for the story, I might as well be reading text. Though story is hugely important in comics, it is also a visual medium; you can have completely silent comic, but you can't have one without pictures. And I have no problem with simple imagery, as there's a difference between simple and crude or bad drawing. "Maus" and "Peanuts" may not be complex in their artwork, but it fits the story and shows a lot of craft nonetheless. Charlie Brown can actually be kind of tough to draw because you don't have a lot of details or lines to hide your mistakes with. If you don't nail the particular shape of his head or the spacing between his eyes, it will show. If you want to see some really simple artwork that will most likely bowl you over, check out Craig Thiompson's "Blankets" or anything by Darwyn Cooke.

I'm with Asatira that it's tough to make a really informed judgement until the comic is out. I'll definitely pick it up and I'm willing to give Hedgecock a few issues to hit his stride. But I will still say what I think about it, good and bad, and I am fine with anyone deciding to hold off on picking up the comic. Or with anyone deciding to buy 20 copies. It's all good
Demonskrye
posted @ Sun, Jun 18, 2006 12:54:07 pm EDT from 209.6.250.47

Patrick: Hitler doesn't rhyme with "blue van." ( ;
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"For a man that flies from his fear may find that he has only taken a shortcut to meet it." -Sador, also called Labadal.
posted @ Sun, Jun 18, 2006 11:44:19 am EDT from 69.174.3.196

Come on, come on... someone say those two words that rhyme with "blue van". I've got my fandom message board Bingo card right here! ;)

ZOMG must pack today. My flight to California leaves tomorrow morning.

5 days left until The Gathering 2006 in Valencia, California!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2006]
"We have so little to do and so much time! Wait. Scratch that, reverse it." - Willy Wonka (Gene Wilder)
posted @ Sun, Jun 18, 2006 10:49:28 am EDT from 66.72.206.105

Unbelievable, totally unbelievable I've been a loyal fan since Gargoyles first aired 12 years ago. Granted I don't have any merchandise apart from the old comics and both DVDs. However I'm the only one here probably who is disgusted by all this crap about Comic Artwork, can't we be glad that Gargoyles is coming back in another Media format.

In fact I'm so loyal that I'm the only here that likes Season 3.
Matt Fews
Let's call it Steve - Hammy OTH
posted @ Sun, Jun 18, 2006 10:20:42 am EDT from 64.228.205.70

Kythera> Don't even worry about it. We're all fairly opinionated people here, and every so often temperatures rise. My response to you was a bit snippier than I'd have liked, too. Absolutely no hard feelings.

Battle Beast> Notwithstanding my response to that point below, I'm standing by my earlier position. Maybe i shouldn't have made myself sound so categorical; it's not as though I absolutely won't buy the first two issues just to prove some philosophical point. If I have the occasion, the money, and the desire to buy them, I will, and if i don't, I won't. I'm just a bit too Scottish myself to go out of my way to spend money buying what would amount to my third copy of the same thing, but it's not impossible.
Whitbourne
posted @ Sun, Jun 18, 2006 6:03:47 am EDT from 142.177.186.128

"It is ALL about the headcount of the Benjamins. Anyone else care to guess why we haven't heard anything about Volume II of the DVD, yet?"

EXACTLY.

Does anyone remember "You Don't Know Jack" hosted by Paul Ruebens? YOu might not, because it only lasted two episodes. No one watched it.

If no one buys the first two issues, why would they wnat to make more?

The first two issues are EXTREMELY important. If no one purchases them for the same reasons, IE) "i don't want to read the journey again," or "I want to see new stuff," then the sales will stink and Slave Labour is gonna say, "Hmmm, this was a bad idea."

We need all the help we can get!

And I don't think $3.50 every two months is too much to ask for even STRUGGLING students/people. Certainly more reasonable than the $40 for the DVD.

I know everyone is in a different boat and money is tight... but still. It's only $3.50 I know we are all fans, but if you won't support the show...

I stick by what I said but... I know, I know... my foot is probably in my mouth so I'll appologize now for any one I may have offended. Sorry.

ONE MORE GAME TO GO BOYS!!!! GO OILERS GO!!!
Battle Beast - [Canada]
GO OILERS GO!!! GO OILERS GO!!! GO OILERS GO!!! GO OILERS GO!!! GO OILERS GO!!! GO OILERS GO!!! GO OILERS GO!!! GO OILERS GO!!! GO OILERS GO!!! ... ...
posted @ Sun, Jun 18, 2006 2:18:20 am EDT from 198.53.28.99

Warcrafter-- Wow, I actually find myself agreeing with you on something. o.O

Yes, I DO think the writing is going to be very important, and I also think it's going to be very good. And hopefully it WILL be good enough to pick up the slack left by the artwork. I also forget that I'm extremely biased when it comes to the way something looks, being as art-centered as I am, and I think I've been too mouthy about it, lately. That doesn't mean I've changed my opinions at all... I'll just try to be a little more civil about them.

Whitbourne-- I've had some time to cool down and I realize that I was out of line saying what I said and in the way that I said it. Please forgive me.
Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail.com]
I do not suffer fools, gladly or otherwise.
posted @ Sat, Jun 17, 2006 11:53:02 pm EDT from 69.244.247.43

While I agree with some of you on how the art looks, I also agree with the others on the storyline being good. My guess is if the comic isn't selling good then we find out the cause and maybe the person in charge of that subject will try to make some changes for the better.
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
If George Bush had Dick Cheney's first name, his name would be Dick Bush, and I'd tell you I'd listen to a lot more of his speeches.
posted @ Sat, Jun 17, 2006 11:33:00 pm EDT from 69.231.214.215

About comic art:

I saw a lot of bad art in 80s comics. I'm guessing that comics were so popular at the time, that they were hiring second and third-tier artists just to get enough artists to do all the comics. Look at UK Transformers comics artwork to see what I mean.

Comics are doing better now than they were in the 90s, but there are still so many talented artists not getting paid for their work, that one expects higher standards from professionals.

I'm withholding my art judgement until issue #3. I think the art could look smoother and more polished, but I'm going to give the artist a few issues to get used to the characters and then see what his learning curve is.
Stormy - [decepticoncommand@hotmail.com]
posted @ Sat, Jun 17, 2006 8:19:05 pm EDT from 142.167.202.139

Whit-- Point taken.
Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail.com]
I do not suffer fools, gladly or otherwise.
posted @ Sat, Jun 17, 2006 7:27:25 pm EDT from 69.244.247.43

Kythera> "So basically, you don't mind contributing to poor sales of the first two issues so that we can at least hope to get issue 3 and more. Gotcha. I guess you won't be flustered if the Season 2 Volume 2 DVD doesn't happen, either."

Hey, there, thanks for putting words in my mouth. They taste great, and they're less filling than my own thoughts. Mmm, mmm.

In all seriousness, though - no, I'm probably not going to buy the first two issues right away, and I'm not going to feel too bad about that, either. First of all, I know that Stormy's planning on buying a copy, and our house certainly doesn't need two copies of the same thing. Second of all, I don't buy novelizations of TV shows I've seen for the same reason. I already have VHS copies and a signed script of the same story, and while I appreciate the reasons that the first copies are "The Journey", I don't particularly like that story enough to really get excited about three different media forms of the same thing.

And thirdly, while I'm sure the passive-aggression about supporting the fandom feels nice, the fact remains that I have limited funds, and there are a lot more things that I need to spend money on than comic books. I'm sure other people are in the same boat. If someday I have a few bucks to spare and I happen to be near the comic book store, and there doesn't happen to be something else that I'm excited about and want to buy, I might pick up a copy. Having someone snip about whose contributing to whose bottom line isn't really going to change my mind.

In the sum of the equation, it's a comic book based on a show that I really liked back when I was in high school. I'll be happy enough to read it and to buy it here and there as the story grabs me, but it's not as though it's going to fill a great, gaping void in my life that'll gnaw and devour my spirit if I don't have it filled. It's something that I'm interested in, and I'll pick it up on that basis, but on that basis alone.
Whitbourne
posted @ Sat, Jun 17, 2006 7:14:29 pm EDT from 142.177.185.157

Whit-- "...though I'll likely wait until the third issue because I don't really feel the need to read "The Journey" all over again."

So basically, you don't mind contributing to poor sales of the first two issues so that we can at least hope to get issue 3 and more. Gotcha. I guess you won't be flustered if the Season 2 Volume 2 DVD doesn't happen, either.

It is ALL about the headcount of the Benjamins. Anyone else care to guess why we haven't heard anything about Volume II of the DVD, yet?
Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail.com]
I do not suffer fools, gladly or otherwise.
posted @ Sat, Jun 17, 2006 7:03:18 pm EDT from 69.244.247.43

Whit> Yes, I agree that a great story will be what keeps the book alive.

But, we need to get newcomers to give the book a chance in the first place.

I mean, look at this. Goliath's ears swell up like Dumbo's here:
http://brokenfrontier.com/img/2006/jun/G1-Page14-done.jpg

and look at Elisa in the first panel here: http://brokenfrontier.com/img/2006/jun/G1-Page16-done.jpg

There is just no excuse for this, especially not from someone who draws in a professional setting. I am worried about the newbies that we will need to make this book sell. Because, I want this book to sell. I want it to last a good, long time.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Plato once said that for everything that exists, there is a perfect form of it somewhere. A perfect human being, a perfect chair, a perfect stick, so that everything is a shadow of that one perfect form. Now, if we follow that train of thought, that means that somewhere in the universe there exists the perfect form of the absolute and complete idiot and he left here an hour ago." - Matthew Gideon
posted @ Sat, Jun 17, 2006 6:57:47 pm EDT from 68.199.4.45

Well, frigg, look at some of the most highly acclaimed graphic novels out there. Art Spiegelman's Maus is credited with putting the graphic novel on the map as a serious artform, and his drawings can charitably be described as "simple". Take Marjane Satrapi's drawings in isolation and you'd probably not be particularly overwhelmed, but her book "Perseopolis" is one of the finest and most human stories I've ever read. And up here, Chester Brown's drawings are adequate enough, but he tells the story of Louis Riel in such a way that it takes what was formerly dryly taught Canadian history and he brings it alive. None of these people have grand drawing styles that meet all standards to technical perfection, but their writing has carried their books to wide acclaim.

All this is not to say that the art isn't important; it is, and it is kind of a shame that the artwork in the book can't be more consistently up to the standard we're used to. But even that standard was inconsistent. There were animation errors all over the place, and we laughed at them, and we carried on getting engrossed in the story. It's my opinion that the ame thing will happen here. The artwork, whether you think of it as good enough, mediocre, or stinking of feces, is not the only thing that people will respond to in the book. If the writing is good, then a reasonable person will overlook any artistic errors in order to get to what they want to buy the book for - a good story that they truly want to follow.
Whitbourne
posted @ Sat, Jun 17, 2006 6:07:55 pm EDT from 142.177.186.20

Whitbourne: Indeed. The main reason I first got out of comics was not becuase I didn't like the art. Rather, I felt that the writing became too trite and uninteresting. My brother was collecting the titles for the "Maximum Carnage" crossover back in 1993, and I couldn't even finish reading it. It was just a violent sociopath gathering as many villains as he could under his flag in order to kill as many people as possible. It had no depth (but from what I've been getting from conversations I've had, the 90s was a troubling time for comics).

For me, good writing covers up a multitude of sins, and Greg has already proven himself to be a very capable writer.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"For a man that flies from his fear may find that he has only taken a shortcut to meet it." -Sador, also called Labadal.
posted @ Sat, Jun 17, 2006 3:59:14 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

Just came from Over the Hedge
Vincent the Bear
Let's call it Steve - Hammy OTH
posted @ Sat, Jun 17, 2006 3:10:32 pm EDT from 69.156.121.229

To be brutally honest, I'll be happy if it lasts, but if it doesn't, it doesn't.

I personally don't think that medicore art would be enough to sink it, particularly if the writing is good. I'm a little biased because I'm not a "comic-book" fan so much as I am a writing fan, and there are comic books that I enjoy entirely because of the storyline, though even I, who hears that something is so many "heads high" and wonders what strange form of language that is, can tell that the art is crap.

If the writing was as bad as people seem to think the art is, then yeah, I could see the problem. But you know, when I look at the art, I can get the vague sense that it's not the best in the world, but it's certainly passble enough that i can overlook it and get to the real point of the story, which for me lies mostly in the word balloons and the dialogue.

But even then...well, I'm not parked outside Strange Adventures on Sackville Street waiting for the shop to open so I can run in and buy the book. I may pick it up some day when I happen to be down there, though I'll likely wait until the third issue because I don't really feel the need to read "The Journey" all over again. I think it's pretty cool that the story's back, and I'd certainly like to see it do well, but I'm not going to be furious or upset if it doesn't. I went through that back in '96 when it was cancelled the first time. Whatever happens now...well, que sera, sera.
Whitbourne
posted @ Sat, Jun 17, 2006 2:46:26 pm EDT from 142.177.186.17

WHIT> But, you do give two craps on the comic selling well enough to last a good long time, right? That is what I'm concerned about.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Plato once said that for everything that exists, there is a perfect form of it somewhere. A perfect human being, a perfect chair, a perfect stick, so that everything is a shadow of that one perfect form. Now, if we follow that train of thought, that means that somewhere in the universe there exists the perfect form of the absolute and complete idiot and he left here an hour ago." - Matthew Gideon
posted @ Sat, Jun 17, 2006 2:35:48 pm EDT from 68.199.4.45

I'm holding off on judgement until Wedsday, when I have it in my hands and have more than the sample pages to look at. Admittedly not very impressed with what I've seen, but I want to see the whole package before I praise or pan. I'm still bringing it to the Con, though.
Asatira
posted @ Sat, Jun 17, 2006 2:28:05 pm EDT from 68.117.246.81

As long as the writing's good, I couldn't give two craps about what the art looks like.
Whitbourne
posted @ Sat, Jun 17, 2006 2:25:48 pm EDT from 142.177.186.17

Can't wait for next Wednesday for the comic.
Vincent the Bear
Let's call it Steve - Hammy OTH
posted @ Sat, Jun 17, 2006 2:25:14 pm EDT from 69.156.169.21

And don't forget Goliath's amazing inflatable/deflatable ears.

This is not about being spoiled by better artists, this is us complaining that he can't draw period. And we're afraid it will sink the comic. Greg's writing is wonderful, his characters are great, I am sure he will do his end of the comic better than anyone else could. But, I will admit, I can't draw worth a crap, and even I can draw Elisa better than what I've seen Hedgecock do so far.

But, will the casual comic reader buy the comic after glancing at a couple of pages? If I knew nothing about "Gargoyles" at all, and I flipped through it for twenty seconds (which is what most will do), I probably would not buy it.

Hell, I don't even care that it looks different from the series, but, he can't even keep the characters looking consistent in his own art.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Plato once said that for everything that exists, there is a perfect form of it somewhere. A perfect human being, a perfect chair, a perfect stick, so that everything is a shadow of that one perfect form. Now, if we follow that train of thought, that means that somewhere in the universe there exists the perfect form of the absolute and complete idiot and he left here an hour ago." - Matthew Gideon
posted @ Sat, Jun 17, 2006 1:42:06 pm EDT from 68.199.4.45

Woops, Patrick posted while I was writing mine.

Yes... "It's my style" is the classic excuse that I hear (and used back in high school) when an artist is either too lazy or has too large of an ego to accept constructive criticsm, especially when it's regarding technicall things like, "Elisa should be six heads high, but you've drawn her four heads high, and her waist is half the size of her head."
Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail.com]
I do not suffer fools, gladly or otherwise.
posted @ Sat, Jun 17, 2006 11:13:55 am EDT from 69.244.247.43

Shara- One could hope that, but considering that he's been making a lot of the same mistakes throughout most of his work that I've seen has me less hopeful than I'd like to be. It tells me that he doesn't learn from his mistakes, and that's generally not a good thing.

Matt-- I can agree with you on style, but what I'm talking about aren't stylistic issues. Consistently not being able to draw a correctly proportioned figure isn't style, it's lack of skill and/or knowledge--something that all beginning artists have to struggle with, but something that a so-called "seasoned professional" should have worked past by this point. THAT is what I take issue with, not his style. Like with the old Marvel comic... Amanda Connor has the technical skill and know-how, but her style was VERY ill-suited to Gargoyles and the two did not look good together. Hedgecock's style is alright, but his lack of skill is what's disturbing to me.
Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail.com]
I do not suffer fools, gladly or otherwise.
posted @ Sat, Jun 17, 2006 11:11:22 am EDT from 69.244.247.43

I'm sorry, but Elisa is just rendered horribly in a few of the preview panels that I looked at. Her face wasn't on-model at all. These are established characters that are supposed to look a certain way. You can't contort the face beyond recognition and then hide behind the defense of "that's my style."

6 days left until The Gathering 2006 in Valencia, California!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2006]
"We have so little to do and so much time! Wait. Scratch that, reverse it." - Willy Wonka (Gene Wilder)
posted @ Sat, Jun 17, 2006 11:02:00 am EDT from 70.229.195.213

I actually like the comic art a lot. I see that it has its own style. Is it different from the episodes? Sure. But thats okay. Most of the fanart I've seen over the years is of a very different style than the episodes. Some of it I like more than the comic art, some of it I don't like at all. Every artist has his/her own style. I think it looks pretty cool.
Matt - [St. Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Go ahead. Impress me." -David Xanatos, "Vows"
posted @ Sat, Jun 17, 2006 8:41:15 am EDT from 71.153.48.181

Off-topic, can someone analyze this weird semi-Gargoyles-related dream I had?

My partner and I are hanging out with a much younger Thom Adcox, and we hop onto a rollercoaster to go to some stores, where he buys me a tattoo (which I am currently desiring), and my BF gets a bunch of California road maps. We end up all driving back to his house, with Monica and Phoebe (Friends) in the back seat and Rachel runs alongside the car, hunkered down for some weird reason like she din't want to be seen. Right then is when I woke up.

Dreams. Weird, eh?
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Sat, Jun 17, 2006 7:12:36 am EDT from 209.239.132.214

Kythera>I sort of agree with you. Ok I do. Haha. Yes the art is kind of hard to like when your used to looking at other comic book art. I think he will get better by the next book.
Shara
posted @ Sat, Jun 17, 2006 4:15:24 am EDT from 4.246.210.191

Makhasu-- This is the kind of stuff that I'm noticing, and what's bothering me so much. I've looked up some of Hedgecock's other work, and he makes the same mistakes over and over again. I wish Guler was pencilling the whole book, too, but he just has too much on his plate. It surprises me, though, that he's not catching this stuff in Hedgecock's work... then again, I'm not sure how actively he's art directoring the book. :B

And you hit the nail on the head... a professional should be doing better work than this. This is why I'm so upset by what I'm seeing.
Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail.com]
I do not suffer fools, gladly or otherwise.
posted @ Sat, Jun 17, 2006 3:27:15 am EDT from 69.244.247.43

Eep. I only noticed the first three pages of the comics in the interview. I just saw the others. While I wasn't keen on the third page (why are Elisa's breasts so high up?), the first two were good so I just reacted to those...

Castaway looks BAD! Off proportion, inconsistent, and weird (is he wearing bellbottoms in his first panel?). I (and I'm an amateur artist) could do better than that! Especially if I was getting paid for it and getting two months to do 32 pages. >=(

I'm in nitpick mode. Here's my beefs with all the pages seen so far:

1. The biggest problem is proportions/anatomy. Brooklyn is bigger and taller than XANATOS. Goliath is too short and chunky. Certain body parts are too long, short, big, etc...

2. The paneling is kind've... awkward. Not sure how to describe it. It's like an online comic. Not professional.

3. Backgrounds. They're not very detailed, just very simple and amateurish.

4. This guy does not know how to draw wings. Period. They seem like they're barely sketched and tacked onto the figure.

I like the storyline itself. Here's hoping that it'll make up for the art quality. I wish Greg Guler would take over the pencilling. Honestly, a professional artist should be churning out better work than this.
Makhasu - [aknellthatsummonsthee@yahoo.com]
posted @ Sat, Jun 17, 2006 2:59:29 am EDT from 66.74.220.146

..............(hello)...........anyway, do we know for sure that comics will be sold at the gathering and I won't have to pay for the comic store to hold the comics for me when they arrive?
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
If George Bush had Dick Cheney's first name, his name would be Dick Bush, and I'd tell you I'd listen to a lot more of his speeches.
posted @ Sat, Jun 17, 2006 1:34:25 am EDT from 69.231.254.25

41 questions left in Ask Greg until all the 2004 Journals are completed.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Fri, Jun 16, 2006 7:17:09 pm EDT from 63.232.223.132

Kythara> Eeps. My bad.

About the 2-part Journey, though, I gotta say I really wasn't expecting that.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Fri, Jun 16, 2006 6:20:16 pm EDT from 209.239.132.252

Gorram... Keep forgetting to set my avatar on this PC. ;P
Kythera of Anevern
I do not suffer fools, gladly or otherwise.
posted @ Fri, Jun 16, 2006 6:09:33 pm EDT from 65.169.99.145

King Cobra-- ?? I wasn't the one who said that, but yeah, it looks like that's how it's going to be.
Kythera of Anevern
I do not suffer fools, gladly or otherwise.
posted @ Fri, Jun 16, 2006 6:09:02 pm EDT from 65.169.99.145

Asatira> Heh. This is gonna be my first time A) Attending a Gathering, B) riding on a plane, and C) being in California. With the way my mother used to talk about the state (she grew up there), I'm looking forward to seeing it.

Patrick> Cool news about Jim Cummings. :)

Kythera of Anevern> Wait. The Journey comic is gonna be a 2-parter?
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Fri, Jun 16, 2006 6:02:31 pm EDT from 209.239.132.252

Starlioness-- I think it's just a bandage on a wound. If the bone had gotten detatched, Goliath probably wouldn't be able to hold his wing up at all... But yeah, like Chameleongirl said, I wonder how it's wrapped around the bone, what with the wing membrane in the way. o.O
Kythera of Anevern
I do not suffer fools, gladly or otherwise.
posted @ Fri, Jun 16, 2006 4:02:03 pm EDT from 65.169.99.145

looking at the cover again. also notice that Goliath's wing also has two holes now insted of one.. I'm no expert on bones but it looks like the wing bone got detached somehow.. with Elisa dress somehow holding it together.. *shrugs*

that's a big owie.. wonder what happend to Elisa's shoe. :p
starlioness
posted @ Fri, Jun 16, 2006 2:52:31 pm EDT from 65.102.181.64

I think it makes sense that "The Journey" story would span two issues. First, it's a bit of a squeeze to cram everything into 22 pages. To do that, chunks would have to be cut from the episode. Instead, it's more valuable to EXPAND the episode, as Todd mentioned, for the sake of new readers who don't know the Gargoyles backstory.

I am SO pumped for issue #3, when we get the first new Gargoyles stories in almost ten years...and not just stories from Disney Adventures or some other out-of-canon source, but actual, in-continuity, Gargoyles Continued.
Stormy - [decepticoncommand@hotmail.com]
posted @ Fri, Jun 16, 2006 11:19:06 am EDT from 142.167.203.14

I swear, Goliath's ears change size from frame to frame. At various points they look like Dumbo's ears.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Plato once said that for everything that exists, there is a perfect form of it somewhere. A perfect human being, a perfect chair, a perfect stick, so that everything is a shadow of that one perfect form. Now, if we follow that train of thought, that means that somewhere in the universe there exists the perfect form of the absolute and complete idiot and he left here an hour ago." - Matthew Gideon
posted @ Fri, Jun 16, 2006 11:15:24 am EDT from 68.199.4.45

... I wish I could say I liked the new pages, but they're the worst I've seen yet (I swear, the average figure is approximately six and a half "heads" tall, but Elisa is betwenen four and five heads high throughout. Same for Goliath, who should be closer to eight or nine heads high). These are high-school-freshman-art-class kind of errors. A professional should know better. And if Guler is the art director, why is he letting this stuff slide? O_o That boggles me.

I'm trying. I really am (and god knows I'll still dilligently buy my two copies). But the more I see, the worse it looks. Maybe it'll look better in print, but I don't think printing will fix GROSS anatomy errors, and that is my biggest issue with what I've seen so far.

Maybe this will make good material for the Sketching 101 panel next week... "How to correctly proportion your figures, even when most of them is cropped out of the frame."
Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail.com]
I do not suffer fools, gladly or otherwise.
posted @ Fri, Jun 16, 2006 11:13:27 am EDT from 69.244.247.43

TOM WILSON was on my local radio station 92.5 Joe FM this morning. While he only briefly mentioned that he was on gargoyles, he was very funny - he does stand-up comedy - and sings pretty good too.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
GO OILERS GO!!! GO OILERS GO!!! GO OILERS GO!!! GO OILERS GO!!! GO OILERS GO!!! GO OILERS GO!!! GO OILERS GO!!! GO OILERS GO!!! GO OILERS GO!!! ... ...
posted @ Fri, Jun 16, 2006 11:09:21 am EDT from 198.53.28.99

Jade -- there's a simple explanation for the whole Coldstone thing ... what my gamer friends refer to as "FM." The M stands for Magic. The F, well, you can probably guess :)
Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
posted @ Fri, Jun 16, 2006 9:35:05 am EDT from 71.112.172.65

Chameleongirl> Good question. I did notice Goliath's wing is in a lot worse shape than it was in the episode, which is kinda cool.

It is pretty neat that we are already evaluating the comics the same way we do the episodes.
Matt - [St. Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Go ahead. Impress me." -David Xanatos, "Vows"
posted @ Fri, Jun 16, 2006 8:57:53 am EDT from 71.153.48.181

Just confirmed last night...

Jim Cummings is coming to The Gathering 2006 next weekend.

He was the voice of Dingo on "Gargoyles", and he's got a voice credits list a mile long going back to the 1980s.

Only one week left...

7 days left until The Gathering 2006 in Valencia, California!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2006]
"Seven days will quickly go..." - Sting
posted @ Fri, Jun 16, 2006 7:48:08 am EDT from 24.106.128.24

*squeals* Those new pages look great! Particularly the first two, summarizing past events. Demona looks fiercely beautiful. Macbeth's face is perfect - bitter and harsh. Angela's pose is full of life... I could ramble on for hours...

Needless to say, I'm eagerly awaiting the release! I've got a comic book store that's already ordered it. =)
Makhasu - [aknellthatsummonsthee@yahoo.com]
posted @ Fri, Jun 16, 2006 2:07:33 am EDT from 66.74.220.146

The cover for issue #2 > Anyone ever wonder how they get that bandage all the way round Goliath's wing bone?
Chameleongirl
Chameleon may changer her spots, but she refuses to do plaid.
posted @ Fri, Jun 16, 2006 2:03:45 am EDT from 202.87.162.31

Christine> You are right there. The repair-work-at-sunup shouldn't work. It might on occasion, and once a garg is dead as stone, it's just dead, should also apply. But then we have Colstone changing things again... Sigh. The neverending question:)
Jade Griffin
"Food, food, food!!"
posted @ Fri, Jun 16, 2006 1:55:36 am EDT from 71.83.112.202

It's kinda weird, but fun to think in a week I'll be flying out to California. This is the first real solo vacation I've had in a long time, so I am really looking forward to the Gathering.

So, the comic is delayed until next week? Then I'll pick up my copy the day before I leave. Coolness.
Asatira
posted @ Thu, Jun 15, 2006 11:43:16 pm EDT from 68.117.246.81

Thanks, Bishansky. I believe that we can also expect the "correct" ending to the story at the end of #2; i.e., Goliath jumping from one building to the next, rather than gliding off with no regard to the damaged wing.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Thu, Jun 15, 2006 7:57:43 pm EDT from 4.245.22.169

Also, this is the cover for issue 2. A very familiar scene.

http://brokenfrontier.com/img/2006/jun/G2-cover.jpg
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Plato once said that for everything that exists, there is a perfect form of it somewhere. A perfect human being, a perfect chair, a perfect stick, so that everything is a shadow of that one perfect form. Now, if we follow that train of thought, that means that somewhere in the universe there exists the perfect form of the absolute and complete idiot and he left here an hour ago." - Matthew Gideon
posted @ Thu, Jun 15, 2006 7:41:21 pm EDT from 68.199.4.45

Todd> Yes, it does cover both issues.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Plato once said that for everything that exists, there is a perfect form of it somewhere. A perfect human being, a perfect chair, a perfect stick, so that everything is a shadow of that one perfect form. Now, if we follow that train of thought, that means that somewhere in the universe there exists the perfect form of the absolute and complete idiot and he left here an hour ago." - Matthew Gideon
posted @ Thu, Jun 15, 2006 7:37:02 pm EDT from 68.199.4.45

I've just been wondering whether the comics adaptation of "The Journey" will be spread out through the first two issues, rather than being just #1.

1. Greg Weisman has mentioned in recent interviews that the new material will be starting in #3.

2. He also said that we'd see the first hints of the Illuminati clashing with Xanatos in #2. Now, in "The Journey", in either Act II or Act III, there's a scene where Owen tells Xanatos about Mr. Duval wanting to speak with him on the phone (with Xanatos shrugging it off to play with Alex instead). This could easily be the beginning of the Illuminati arc that Greg was mentioning, in which case the latter part of "The Journey" could appear in #2.

Having seen a few more sample pages from Greg's interview of "Gargoyles" #1, I've noticed that when Goliath comes to Elisa's apartment and starts talking to her about his troubled thoughts over the new danger that the clan is in, there's some new material that wasn't in the cartoon, a sort of "flashback" summing up the Wyvern Massacre, the gargoyles' awakening in the modern world, having troubles with Xanatos and Demona, but also making friends with Elisa. This could provide all the more reason for "The Journey" to span two issues - new material being added to the story of that sort, for the purpose of explaining to people just getting introduced to the series about the gargoyles' backstory.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Thu, Jun 15, 2006 7:34:39 pm EDT from 4.245.22.169

Holy crap, I have to travel in three days. :: flails ::

8 days left until The Gathering 2006 in Valencia, California!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2006]
"We have so little to do and so much time! Wait. Scratch that, reverse it." - Willy Wonka (Gene Wilder)
posted @ Thu, Jun 15, 2006 5:36:50 pm EDT from 68.253.21.216

Anyone here going to the Gathering still need a roommate? I'm getting a little desperate.
I'm probably going to end up reserving a room myself, so if anyone needs somewhere to crash and doesn't mind paying a half, or a third, or any other fraction dependant on the number of people we can fit in a room, please email me.

Thanks,
Long time no see,
CKayote
CKayote - [CKayote@gmail.com]
It is the eternal fate of the noble and enlightened to be brutually crushed by the armed and dumb.- Jon Stewart
posted @ Thu, Jun 15, 2006 12:41:30 pm EDT from 206.57.95.128

I've had comics I ordered delayed by a week in the past. It's not all that unusual.

The cause for concern comes if comics are announced as coming out every month/every other month and then consistently miss the deadline.
Stormy - [decepticoncommand@hotmail.com]
posted @ Thu, Jun 15, 2006 7:52:23 am EDT from 142.167.208.223

Thanks Marty.
Matt - [St. Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Go ahead. Impress me." -David Xanatos, "Vows"
posted @ Thu, Jun 15, 2006 7:03:13 am EDT from 71.153.48.181

Well, "printing error" basically means that the book did not make it from the Printer to the Distributor on time. This could mean almost anything in a business setting - misestimated timetables, mechanical malfunction, human error, too many people caught the flu, a more important customer had to be bumped ahead in the queue - who knows. Stuff like that happens all the time in such operations.

It probably wasn't a 7-day setback either, but rather it simply missed the deadline for this week's shipment by some small margin of time (maybe an hour, maybe a day) and has to wait for the next shipment. Comics typically come in a big shipment on Wednesdays, so if you miss one Wednesday, you have to wait for the next one.
Marty "Kaioto" Lund - [lundmart@comcast.net]
posted @ Thu, Jun 15, 2006 3:58:28 am EDT from 68.230.66.98

It was on Slave Labor's blog, and all they said was printing error. THat's all I know.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Plato once said that for everything that exists, there is a perfect form of it somewhere. A perfect human being, a perfect chair, a perfect stick, so that everything is a shadow of that one perfect form. Now, if we follow that train of thought, that means that somewhere in the universe there exists the perfect form of the absolute and complete idiot and he left here an hour ago." - Matthew Gideon
posted @ Wed, Jun 14, 2006 11:34:04 pm EDT from 68.199.4.45

Greg B.> What exactly do you mean by printing error. Do you mean like the pages wouldn't print, colors printed out wrong, etc. Mind me asking how you found this out. I have my own reasons for asking these questions if that's ok.
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
We should all buy more American-related products, which at last checked was porn and cheeseburgers
posted @ Wed, Jun 14, 2006 11:07:56 pm EDT from 69.234.3.217

OK. Next week then. Very exciting.
Matt - [St. Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Go ahead. Impress me." -David Xanatos, "Vows"
posted @ Wed, Jun 14, 2006 11:05:13 pm EDT from 71.153.48.181

BISHANSKY - Ah, thanks for explaining.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Wed, Jun 14, 2006 6:57:15 pm EDT from 4.244.213.69

Heh. My boss had me scheduled to work the early morning when my flight to California takes off.

Fortunately, that's no longer an issue. I reminded him what next Thursday was, and he fized the problem. :-)
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Wed, Jun 14, 2006 6:42:34 pm EDT from 209.239.132.22

There was apparatly a printing error with the comic, so it will be out next week.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Plato once said that for everything that exists, there is a perfect form of it somewhere. A perfect human being, a perfect chair, a perfect stick, so that everything is a shadow of that one perfect form. Now, if we follow that train of thought, that means that somewhere in the universe there exists the perfect form of the absolute and complete idiot and he left here an hour ago." - Matthew Gideon
posted @ Wed, Jun 14, 2006 6:31:50 pm EDT from 68.199.4.45

Click my name to see a new interview with Greg Weisman about the comic.

So does Diamond Distributing do all the distribution for the Gargoyles comic, or just the distribution for it in some areas?
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Wed, Jun 14, 2006 6:28:53 pm EDT from 4.244.213.69

I'm an idiot. Someone explain to me why Amazon is only pre-ordering it and yet the release date is today...? Does this have something to do with the distribution thing Greg B mentioned?
Matt - [St. Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Go ahead. Impress me." -David Xanatos, "Vows"
posted @ Wed, Jun 14, 2006 6:13:31 pm EDT from 71.153.48.181

Goldfish: Cancel your order and re-order it. S'what I did.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"But someone's looking down from that mountainside, 'cause Julie's been working for the drug squad." -The only band that really matters.
posted @ Wed, Jun 14, 2006 5:51:00 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

Again with the one track mind...just what is the Masq and dance like? For instance, is the general number of entrants every year, like 30 or so? More? Less? Do most just walk on, show off the costume, walk off...or do a good amount try and do a bit of a skit? Is the dance just music playing and mingling/grooving with buddies and making new friends?

Thanks all for dealing with my constant inquiries :)
Trickster - [scruffyrebel@yahoo.com]
posted @ Wed, Jun 14, 2006 5:27:35 pm EDT from 24.126.137.116

Wingless--I could mail you a copy if you like. I have a comic book store that will reserve multiple copies of comics for me.

Drop me an email. I keep forgetting your address (my ability to remember addresses and numbers has apparently been affected by my health two years ago...I /always/ forget the cost of something in the time it takes me to take the item to the cash register....so I need an actual email from you in my inbox so I can mail you.)
Stormy - [decepticoncommand@hotmail.com]
posted @ Wed, Jun 14, 2006 4:43:31 pm EDT from 142.167.199.226

Diamond Distribution delayed the release of the comic by a week. It should be out next Wednesday.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Plato once said that for everything that exists, there is a perfect form of it somewhere. A perfect human being, a perfect chair, a perfect stick, so that everything is a shadow of that one perfect form. Now, if we follow that train of thought, that means that somewhere in the universe there exists the perfect form of the absolute and complete idiot and he left here an hour ago." - Matthew Gideon
posted @ Wed, Jun 14, 2006 2:23:54 pm EDT from 68.199.4.45

So much to do before the gathering. and so little time.

very excited about seeing everyone agian though.
Shara - [jeanie54_2000@yahoo.com]
posted @ Wed, Jun 14, 2006 12:47:03 pm EDT from 4.245.121.234

As a reminder to anyone contacting their local comic shop in search of the Gargoyles comic, the publisher of the comic is listed in the retailers' publication directory as "Amaze Ink," which is a division of Slave Labor Graphics. If your comic retailer is looking for the Gargs comic under "SLG" or "Slave Labor Graphics" and not finding it, this is why. Ask him/her to look under "Amaze Ink" instead, and that should solve the problem.
Ellen
posted @ Wed, Jun 14, 2006 8:18:19 am EDT from 64.12.116.8

Comic: Well, Amazon has changed the release date to today, Though my estimated receiving date is still July 5th-7th GRRRR
Purplegoldfish - [Skydragonn@aol.com]
posted @ Wed, Jun 14, 2006 8:08:17 am EDT from 205.188.117.68

ZOMG busy!

9 days left until The Gathering 2006 in Valencia, California!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2006]
"We have so little to do and so much time! Wait. Scratch that, reverse it." - Willy Wonka (Gene Wilder)
posted @ Wed, Jun 14, 2006 7:51:27 am EDT from 68.253.21.216

My comic shop doesn't seem to have it in yet. I called the guy back and left him my number this time. But I'm also getting a copy off Amazon, so it'll come in some form eventually.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"But someone's looking down from that mountainside, 'cause Julie's been working for the drug squad." -The only band that really matters.
posted @ Wed, Jun 14, 2006 6:27:20 am EDT from 69.174.3.196

Well, today is the day Gargoyles issue #1 is in stores. Yay, im going to go buy a copy or two or who knows how many right after school. We should all be very happy and proud.
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
We should all buy more American-related products, which at last checked was porn and cheeseburgers
posted @ Wed, Jun 14, 2006 12:11:14 am EDT from 69.231.195.201

Re: Comic -

Hmm, where I am and the comic book shop I go to it appears that it won't be coming out this week, but next week instead. My friend Kris (who admittedly attends and buys more comics than I do, and to whom I am eternally grateful because he is helping me get my Gargoyles comics and providing me with Nextwave: Agents of H.A.T.E. XD XD) said he isn't sure why it's being released next week as opposed to this week...

But, then again, this is Canada. And I have no clue how this release-of-comics thing is done. o.O So I'm probably missing a few major facts somewhere; I just haven't got a clue as to what they are, or where I might find them.

But, I am satisfied with the knowledge that my order is on the shipping list and that Gary (comic shop owner) did indeed order it for me.

Excuse me while I squeal in unabashed glee. *squee!*

Wingless - If you like, I can look into getting/ordering you a copy and mailing it to you via snail mail, should you not be able to order off Amazon.ca or any other efforts come to naught. Drop me a line if you want, or if the need arises; I'd be happy to help.
The Sadistic Cow - [midnightfantasia [at] hotmail.com]
Rock 'n roll angels bring thine Hard Rock Hallelujah! Demons and angels all in one have arrived. - Lordi
posted @ Tue, Jun 13, 2006 8:22:24 pm EDT from 69.157.14.20

Patrick> Ed's not coming? Aww, I really wanted a chance to meet Mr Asner in person. That'd be so cool. (It's a toss-up between Hudson and Broadway for my fav character) Still, I can't wait to meet everyone else, both guests and fellow con-goers.
Asatira
posted @ Tue, Jun 13, 2006 8:06:42 pm EDT from 68.117.246.81

I'm still trying to figure out how I'm going to get the comic. Amazon.ca (Amazon Canada) doesn't seem to have the comic listed-so I'm at a loss of where I'm going to get it. If anyone has a suggestion of where I can order it from, I'd appreciate it.
Wingless
posted @ Tue, Jun 13, 2006 8:02:33 pm EDT from 70.27.173.142

I ordered my copy from Amazon.com (not having a comic book store in my immediate vicinity, though I can reach a couple by bus); I don't know as yet when it'll ship, since the website says that the comic will become available on the 28th. I don't know whether that means that they'll get it two weeks later than the comic stores or whether it was just a mistake on their part. Well, I should find out pretty soon.

At least, since the first issue is an adaptation of "The Journey", which I've already seen, I doubt that I'll have to worry about the spoilers postings from the people talking about it here before my issue arrives in the mail.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Tue, Jun 13, 2006 6:48:47 pm EDT from 4.244.211.3

Patrick: I'm sure we do.

Hmm, all this talk about stone reminds me of a conversation that I think took place in here not too long ago. I believe Matt was expressing a theory (and he can feel free to correct me, since I'm not looking it up, just going from my memory) that before the humility spell was cast, a gargoyle's internal organs might not have turned to stone, just their outer skin. This created a mental image in my head of someone smashing a sleeping gargoyle in the time before the Spell was cast. Basically, it was a lot like striking a chocolate-covered cherry with a hammer. I'd really hate to be the guy who has to clean that up. ( ;
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"But someone's looking down from that mountainside, 'cause Julie's been working for the drug squad." -The only band that really matters.
posted @ Tue, Jun 13, 2006 5:14:16 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

Tomorrow is the big day. Gargoyles - Issue 1 should be hitting comic book shelves with this Wednesday's shipments. I've put together a sort of central link repository for official information as an article update at www.creaturecomics.com.

If you don't see it on your shelves, don't hesitate to pester your retailer. Around here if something new sells out quick, you may not see it on the shelves again for weeks, if not months. Let your shop know exactly what you want, and they'll make sure you get it.

For those of you who don't have access to a comic shop carrying Gargoyles, we've also got a link over to Amazon much like the one you'll find on the left margins of this CR.

Thanks for your support!

- Marty Lund
www.creaturecomics.com
Marty "Kaioto" Lund - [creaturecomics@comcast.net]
posted @ Tue, Jun 13, 2006 5:08:28 pm EDT from 198.187.200.254

Patrick> I know great deal about the slave trade; I ws talking about the Civil war which was fought over slavery.

I've read "American History for Dummies." :P
Battle Beast - [Canada]
GO OILERS GO!!! GO OILERS GO!!! GO OILERS GO!!! GO OILERS GO!!! GO OILERS GO!!! GO OILERS GO!!! GO OILERS GO!!! GO OILERS GO!!! GO OILERS GO!!! ... ...
posted @ Tue, Jun 13, 2006 3:52:21 pm EDT from 198.53.28.99

Hehe i love cosplaying gargoyles. Im so hyped up about the gathering. I can't wait to see everyone there. It's going to be a blast.
Shara - [jeanie54_2000@yahoo.com]
posted @ Tue, Jun 13, 2006 2:21:53 pm EDT from 4.245.120.247

Todd > I'd imagine they remained piles of rubble just like the shattered gargoyles Demona and Goliath found after Haakon sacked the castle.

Battle Beast > The roots of the "big to do about skin color" in the U.S. lie with slavery and goes back a lot further than 140 years. It'd take up a lot of space here to go into the origins of the slave trade and all the impacts it had for colonial American all the way up to the present day. Reading a few history books on the subject would be a good place to start in order to broaden your understanding.

HoE > I also imagine that Demona has amassed quite a unique collection of things, though I have slightly different ideas as to her motives and how she makes use of the items. :: as Chandler from "Friends" :: Could I *be* any more vague?

JG > There's nothing that says a person who's crunched for time can't recycle a costume from a previous con. That's what I'll be doing. It's just a matter of deciding which one.

Gathering Guests > By now a few of you have probably noticed there's a small list of guests sending their regrets. Greg Guler, Lydia Marano, and Jamie Thomason have schedule conflicts, and I'm told that Edward Asner will be recuperating from surgery. We'll have a big "get well soon" card people can sign at the con. The list of guests who ARE coming, however, is still ginormous, so I hope we can focus more on that. In particular, Thom Adcox (voice of Lexington) will be there all weekend, and Brigitte Bako (voice of Angela) will finally be joining us for the first time.

10 days left until The Gathering 2006 in Valencia, California!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2006]
"Back in high school I was a member of a group called the Happy Funk Band, until an unfortunate misspelling caused us to all be expelled." - Colin Mochrie, "Whose Line is it Anyway?"
posted @ Tue, Jun 13, 2006 8:07:00 am EDT from 24.106.128.24

Christine's comment reminds me, as a side-line, of the question over what happened to all of those people whom Demona smashed in "City of Stone" when the sun came up or the spell was broken. Did they stay shattered stone or did they revert into flesh and blood in a particularly gruesome manner? I personally hope that it was the former.

Though I suppose that everybody was too busy worrying about the missing nights to give it much attention, eventually (I suspect) a few people are going to start wondering "Where did all that rubble on the sidewalks come from, and why does much of it look as if it had once been a statue that got demolished?"
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Tue, Jun 13, 2006 7:28:14 am EDT from 4.244.215.210

Todd Jensen & Battle Beast: I'd be more interested in seeing how gargoyles would react to the African slave trade in general, since that was how skin color prejudice was started.
If a gargolye clan spotted a slave ship in the 17th or 18th century what would they do if they knew what the conditions in the ship were like?

Dezi: I'd have to say that unless magic was involved the gargoyle would be out one limb.
Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]
Remember the old Gargoyles comics!
posted @ Tue, Jun 13, 2006 4:41:14 am EDT from 69.54.209.77

I don't think it would work. The body part thing. Not if it was severed during the day. After all, the shattered remains of the Wyvern clan did not change to flesh at sunset (that would've been messy, and given a whole new twist to Goliath scooping up a double handful of what he thought was his Angel of the Night). They stayed stone.

I did something similar in my fanfic once (reattaching a recently-severed hand by holding it to the stump just at dawn so it fused back on, and then was healed -- kinda -- by sunset). But really, that probably should't have realistically worked either.
Christine - [<--- pre-order the Grimorum Anthology here!]
posted @ Tue, Jun 13, 2006 3:10:44 am EDT from 70.56.94.10

Wow... no comments on dinosaurs. Oh well:) Moving on!

Patrick> I dunno what I'm going as! Ack! Any suggestions for someone w/ no time? One of the random passers-by characters?

As for the reposted comment on cutting a garg's arm off and reattaching, I tackled this topic once in a fic. I'm sure it's been handled before by Greg but I gave it this go:

Sir De'Cognac: "That depends on the point of separation, age of subject, time of separation, state of health of individual... As I said. It depends."

Can't wait to see you all!!
Jade Griffin
"Food, food, food!!"
posted @ Tue, Jun 13, 2006 2:31:37 am EDT from 71.83.112.202

Chameleongirl-- You better not have ordered one... ^_- I'm picking up your copy this week. <3
Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail.com]
I do not suffer fools, gladly or otherwise.
posted @ Mon, Jun 12, 2006 11:50:53 pm EDT from 69.244.247.43

I don't know if anyone knows this but Greg Guler, Lydia Marano, Jamie Thomason, and also Edward Asner won't be able to attend the gathering :(
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
We should all buy more American-related products, which at last checked was porn and cheeseburgers
posted @ Mon, Jun 12, 2006 11:36:40 pm EDT from 69.234.7.187

I always thought that "skin color" was the basic term we used for racial hatred; I mean, when the Europeans came to North America, were they really racist to the skin color, or the acutal people and their customs/ways?

Gargoyles, I think, wouldn't be so racsist against, say, a polkadot gargoyle where as a scotish gargoyle may have been against a English Gargoyle.

I recall reading a book in grade one (1989-90), called "Under the Fence" or soemthing like that about vegitables and fruits that interact in a garden city. One of the stories was about an eggplant comming into the garden and being mocked and ridiculed because he is purple, a rare color in the garden.

I don't think the Gargoyles would have been so racist about color more-so than culture.

I know that in the USA there was a big to-do about skin color back about 140 years or so.

Still, it boils down to the fact the Africans looked different, acted different, were uneducated, etc.

Skin color was just the scape-goat.

"What do you call each other?"

"Friend,"

"How do you tell each other apart?"

"We look different."
Battle Beast - [Canada]
GO OILERS GO!!! GO OILERS GO!!! GO OILERS GO!!! GO OILERS GO!!! GO OILERS GO!!! GO OILERS GO!!! GO OILERS GO!!! GO OILERS GO!!! GO OILERS GO!!! ... ...
posted @ Mon, Jun 12, 2006 10:08:58 pm EDT from 198.53.28.99

SO I actually post something, and the room gets wiped, so I figure I'd post again:

I usually post on the TGS comment room, but since, you guys have been on the topic of biology lately, I figured I'd repost here to see what you all come up with:

Ok so I'm kinda getting my friend into the series (and read to him two Timedancers earlier today) and now we're re-watching season 1. He brought up a question that I'm gonna pass off to you all. At first the answer seemed easy but then...I don't know.. OK:

If a gargoyle is in stone sleep, and you saw off his wing, then try to re-attach it, when he wakes up, will it still be functional? Will it still be a part of the gargoyle? or will it just fall off with the stuff you used to glue it back on...

At first I answered no, that wouldn't work, because, well, I pictured the person using mortar or concrete or something like that, and that won't turn to life..but then there's Coldstone. I know some parts of him were put back together by magic but they still had to glue the crumpled stone parts together. I always assumed the robot parts were to replace the parts that had disintegrated at the massacre, and that the magic was used to breathe life back into the stone form...but what did they use to glue the stone bits together?

There, have fun. We all might win over a convert on this one.
Dezi
Want to pinch!
posted @ Mon, Jun 12, 2006 9:56:07 pm EDT from 68.58.30.120

Harvester > If you go to the Slave Labor Graphics site and check the Production Schedule, it says that 'Gargoyles' comes out on the 14th of June.
http://www.slavelabor.com/prod_schedule.html

Amazon still has the 28th listed though.
Chameleongirl - [< Comic release date]
Chameleon may change her spots, but she refuses to do plaid
posted @ Mon, Jun 12, 2006 9:18:47 pm EDT from 210.15.242.68

Todd: That reminds me of something. One of the things I've squeezed into my fanfic is Demona mentioning in coversation that over the last millenium, she's been stockpiling a variety of torture instruments (things that saw a wider range of use in the Middle Ages, such as the Judas Cradle or the Rack), some of which she has actually utilized down through the centuries, during times when she didn't have magic at her disposal to help her persuade someone. The thing that inspired that conversation is that in her sunnier moments, Demona would probably use something like torture in one of her anti-human tirades (something like, "look at the unimaginable suffering humans are capable of inflicting on each other"), and yet she's used those very same devices in her own mission. Or she has in my story, anyway. In the canon Gargoyles universe, aside from Scotland, we've only seen her in 15th Century Italy and in Paris two days before my birthday. ( ;

Honestly, I think gargoyles would be more confused by humans noticing skin color than they would be with the human custom of naming things. I mean, gargoyles don't even bat an eye at each others's skin.

And I was just wondering: I've heard that the release date for the comic has been moved up. Is there any truth to this?
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
If I were Sting, I would have told Puff Daddy, "look, if he was such a good friend, write your own damn song for him. Oh, wait. You're a rap artist. Nevermind."
posted @ Mon, Jun 12, 2006 8:53:55 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

This is an odd little thought that I recently had, inspired by the post last week about Demona writing a book about how humans treat each other badly just for looking different. Within Goliath's clan, we can see a wide variety of hues: lavender (Goliath and Angela), blue (Demona), turquoise (Broadway), red (Brooklyn), khaki (Lexington), tan (Hudson), etc. The same thing is true in the Japanese and Guatemalan clans (though not the London clan, but there the variation is what sort of heraldic animal its members resemble), a wide spectrum again.

So that got me wondering over what the gargoyles must think when they come upon cases of humans prejudiced against other humans for having a different skin color than themselves, and how it must truly bewilder them. After all, when your own clan has such a wide array of skin colors, which vary even more dramatically than human skin pigmentation, the whole concept of viewing someone as an outsider for having a different skin color than your own must seem nothing short of incomprehensible. (And Demona would certainly point it out as one more sign of just how insanely irrational humans are!)
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Mon, Jun 12, 2006 6:41:09 pm EDT from 4.244.209.49

Hehe id tell you about my costume but it would spoil it. Im trying to top the brooklyn costume from last year
Shara
posted @ Mon, Jun 12, 2006 6:08:41 pm EDT from 4.246.214.59

Two of my friends and I will be attending this year ^^ Plans fell through to go last year >.> One friend will be displaying her art and I'll be in the Masq as Puck. Redoing the bangs on the wig right now actually...
Trickster - [scruffyrebel@yahoo.com]
posted @ Mon, Jun 12, 2006 5:48:22 pm EDT from 24.126.137.116

Thanks everyone that kind of helped me to put things in perspective.

Hehe ill be in the gathering masqurade. Can't wait to see you all there.
Shara
posted @ Mon, Jun 12, 2006 2:26:05 pm EDT from 4.246.215.11

There seems to be some crossover of links, quotes, and color selections with the chat room every since Gorebash last tweaked the site.

Feels like we need some fresh topics. Here's one. Who's participating in the Gathering Masquerade this year, and what are you going as?

11 days left until The Gathering 2006 in Valencia, California!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2006]
"She's harmless and empty of anything bad. She once had something that most of you have." - Elton John, "Lady Samantha"
posted @ Mon, Jun 12, 2006 12:59:46 pm EDT from 24.106.128.24

Shara - This friend of yours does sound a bit possessive. Or at least, she did before she started spreading stuff about you to everyone. Which is, depending on how her mind actually works, probably a defensive strategy of hers; anger and revenge rise in place of feeling hurt at what she may think is your "betrayal" of her (because she probably doesn't want to admit it hurts her). Of course, I may be wrong but that's no excuse.

It could be resolved by having a long, in-depth chat with her to see if you guys could come to a conclusion that benefits you both. Ya know, talk to each other, lay the cards out on the table, etc. It could work, if you both made an effort.

Then again, based on what you said... being "threatened", and then her running amock and spreading rumours... hrm, not so good, maybe no chance of being resolved. Sometimes you just have to cut your losses. People come and go in life, they're there when you need them and sometimes there comes a point where neither of you need each other anymore... and then changes start. Not always changes for the better.

I say, toss her. If she can't accept you having friends that she doesn't like, then she herself isn't worth keeping around. Especially since you said she was spreading crap about you to other people. Who needs a friend like that, anyway? It sounds like keeping her around will cause you more stress than necessary; thus, a stress-creator in your life should be eliminated as soon as possible.

Spen - o.O I was unaware of that. Thanks! *edits her Drama Llama out with something else and schtuff* ^_^;
The Sadistic Cow - [midnightfantasia [at] hotmail.com]
The one thing that dead people are good at is floating in the water and they're wasting money by buyin' 'em cushions! - Richard Jeni
posted @ Mon, Jun 12, 2006 9:53:03 am EDT from 69.157.14.20

Shara> hm. I would ditch that person who is giving such grief and know that we are your friends and can vouch for you. You might find new friends by participating in something well away from that bad person. Church grp? After-school/college/community event? Go with particular interests, like gargs did. That's why we luv each other! Screw demographics groups! We are so diverse because we don't hang on that crap. The truth to the human need of socializing and fitting in that I see anyway is that anything based on demographics really is dangerous. That's where ya get the hidden psychos. I'm curious about your 'friend'. Possessive, eh? I'm surprised you stuck w/ her. Why is she your friend? What did she ever do for you? But I am almost purely analtyical as a person. I just don't understand ppl sometimes. Oh well.. Can you get a pet? Or spend more time with the one you have? Say, hang out with animal ppl if you like animals! And of course, make new friends. Find ppl who know you and don't listen to what that chick says about you.
Jade Griffin
"Food, fod, food!!"
posted @ Mon, Jun 12, 2006 2:49:53 am EDT from 71.83.112.202

Uh... Well. Lots been flaming, hasn't it. I'll ignore that completely, however I shall tackle the data that Kevin has proposed on Garg biology and physiology. I don't particularly care what ppl classify them as. I know what a garg is on the outside and inside. I am a paleo person myself and I can tell Kevin may not be as big a one as me, otherwise he'd bring in the therapsid point. Therapsids are a true odd-ball in evolution, or if you don't believe in evolution, just a freaky critter some patron deity had fun with:) They were literally splay-legged, furry, AND scaled. A mammalian-like reptile. For the record, I do not believe for one instant that dinosaurs 'became' birds. My take on evolution is a bit different than most. One critter does not 'turn into' another. They evolve into a completely new thing, sure. Unless magic is involved, this is a slow process and in this slow process, the metamorphosis makes the new critter completely unique. Not like Derrik --> Talon. That was science, which is human magic:) Dinosaurs and birds lived side by side for a while. Most ppl don't know that, just as most ppl don't know that dinosaurs were likely a mix of warm, cold, and unknown-blooded, depending on the critter. Some dinos had feathers, some may have had live young. Some could glide (not pterosaurs, the fliers. Those are ancient reptiles). Another brance, the ancient reptiles like pterosaurs, had that niche filled. The second non-terrestrial niche was taken up by aquatic and usually marine critters like ichthyosaurs, which gave birth to live young and had a fish-motion tail (if I recall) and not one like a dolphin, yet it was highly active. Did you know that a shark is not cold-blooded? It is an unknown? Dunno how they classify it at present:) What all ths says is just that simple classification, whether it be bloodtyping, which they are redoing, or if gargs are mammals vs. reptiles vs. other, is simply that gargs are, yes, their own branch. Just like terrestrial dinosaurs are their own brance of critter. Nuff said from me there. I'm winded!

Now, I had to think on one of Kevin's facts. Gargs had scales?? Yes. I just recalled that Zafiro did in fact have scales. I'd like to quote something from my namesake character's clan: "Gargoyles have more variety of faces than stars in the sky." It is my personal belief that garg genetics makes not necessarily combo patterns but potentially random patterns to create new and distinctly un-parental characteristics in appearance. Hey, they turn to stone by some bio mechanism. Why not this? It would certainly play an interesting survival role. What if that's what it is, why a garg baby can look like not the mother or father? True, it does happen, and often, but it explains a few things in the show for me to follow that theory and try and reason it out. Any thoughts? The second theory is simply that the variety of appearances of gargs is by the various types that branched out from the original garg stock, whatever that was. Just like there were more varieties of dinosaurs than stars in the sky. :) Ah, my longest post ever. Any other dino buffs who wanna throw in some garg theories?

I do hope none of my panels conflict w/ the garg culture/physio panel! I wanna go:)
Jade Griffin
"Food, fod, food!!"
posted @ Mon, Jun 12, 2006 2:44:09 am EDT from 71.83.112.202

Ok this post has nothing to do with gargoyles but I need some help. SO im asking all of you.

I have this friend who was my best friend. She literly threatend me about talking to other people that she did not like. Thing is these people never did anything to me. SO I lyed to her and told her that I wasnt talking to them recently because well I was tired of having no friends but her..... She recently changed and started canceling plans on me and thats what drove me to wanting to hang out with other people. Now she calls me a lyer and is pissed and is spreding shit about me to everyone. It's sad.

What do I do?
Shara
posted @ Mon, Jun 12, 2006 2:02:52 am EDT from 4.246.208.82

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