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The Phoenix Gate

Comment Room Archive

Comments for the week ending July 10, 2006

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Mayelin > the vid you linked to was made by Siren. She's a regular here who makes awesome vids :)
You can check out her Gargoyles vids here:

Chameleon may changer her spots, but she refuses to do plaid.

Hey guys,
I got an idea about spreading the word to those who may not yet know that Gargoyles is out on DVD. I copied and pasted the following link onto my aim away message. The link is to a fan-made commercial for the Gargoyles Season 1 DVD. I know that we're trying to boost sales for Season 2 Vol. 1, but I still figure that this is a good way to promote awareness about the show to friends. Warcrafter's post (thanks a bunch for sharing this, I love it) on July 8th introduced me to this website. It has a bunch of gargoyles videos. Some stuff is really great, some stuff is just ok, but all in all it's pretty cool.

Mayelin - [dulcemiel83@aim.com]
Mayelin Gonzalez

SCOTT ISKOW - Bishansky's done something slightly similar at Toon Zone, starting up a discussion over who's the better scheming mastermind: Xanatos or Luthor? (No prizes for guessing whom Bishansky voted for.)

ABBY - I still haven't heard from Amazon.com about when they're going to send off my order, but I checked their site earlier this evening, and the "ships in 5 to 8 weeks" statement has now changed to "ships in 4 to 7 weeks", which is progress of a sort. Not the sort of progress that I'd really like to see, but better than nothing.

Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

Blaqthorne & Crimson Fury wrote: "Ooh, and there's Angela laying against the little toy piano Broadway is playing...Great, now I suddenly have an image of Bronx doing the Snoopy dance in my head."

I'll never watch the kids' "Peanuts" videos the same way again. ;-)

That's great news about the comic!

Re: recent discussions about amazon.com ship dates for the comic: I placed my order on June 22 and received an email confirmation yesterday (July 8) that it had shipped. So hopefully everyone ordering from amazon will be getting their copies soon!


DL-- "Whoever" plans the Gatherings is different every year. See this post at the Gathering forum for more info: http://gatheringofthegargoyles.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=150

So if you want to have a Gathering in Indiana, consider pulling a staff together and putting in a bid.

Kythera of Anevern
I do not suffer fools, gladly or otherwise.

Warcrafter, sometimes i do, sometimes i don't. for me, it depends on the topic.
Anyway- hw was the gathering? Who ever is schedualing these gatherings, tell me that there is going to be one in Indiana! I do noty travel alot.
i told my best friend about the new cmics and she was like frozen in time for a few minutes. And i told hr about the gatherings and she was like OMG, we haft to go to one!

demonic lover - [broad23way@yahoo.com]

Good news...so far.

Could someone interpret for me this blurb from Scot Iskow's link
SLG's Dan Vado pointed out that he felt that the first issue was severely under-ordered by retailers. "We over-printed by almost 40% of our initial orders," he added. "I would highly advise retailers who are carrying the comic to check their orders for Gargoyles #2."

The Trek Gargoyles saga...
Thing is, I don't think there is any reference to the DVDs or comics, are there? Could we get our friends to add in a little plug?

On that note, www.digg.com is a site where members can submit and vote on interesting and informative websites for current events.

www.digg.com has an entertainment section in beta (think "soft release"). It's only available to digg members right now, but once all the bugs are worked out, everyone should be able to see it. (Only members can vote, IIRC)
Perhaps then we can get together and vote up an announcement or press release for the next issue of the series. Remember, we once got roughly a hundred people to post answers to a questionnaire here. That should be a good start.

JJ Gregarius

As a followup to my last post: about every three minutes, the sponsorsed section of ytmnd.com seems to cycle between the top 5 all-time high sponsors (#5 is at $153.46 currently) and the top 5 recent sposors (exceeding $9.41 currently). My mere $20 has brought it up to #2 on the 2nd list. I sent in the money about 3am my time. It's about 11am now, and the number of daily pageviews for trekgargoyles.ytmnd.com (since 12am this morning) has catapulted from 26 to 540. For reference, there were only 616 total pageviews for trekgargoyles for all last week. I gaurantee my sponsorship has led to at least a couple of DVD purchases since 514 new people may have been reminded of the series. Now, I'd guess the 'recently sponsored' list on the mainpage will only retain my sponsorship for 24 hours, but if we all chip in to exceed $153.46: we'll get on the permanent sponsor list, and my pageview effect will be multiplied many many times over. I think this is a relatively inexpensive (~$160 split among everyone here) to advertise to thousands of geeks. The permanent list seems to actually be permanent, so we can take as long as we'd like to meet this goal. We just have to beat out incoming sponsors in the process, but that shouldn't be difficult.

I'll reiterate these posts after the Monday cycle, then stop bugging y'all.

Lumpmoose - [lumpmoose@karpacrossamerica.com]

*Yaaaaaa Totalll NUTS*
Hello :P


Stormy > It's pretty typical for first issues to sell better than subsequent issues. What's atypical is that, with Gargoyles, we have a book that is not part of the DC or Marvel lines, that is based on a show cancelled nearly ten years ago, that adapts an already-made episode (usually not a smart move for books based on television properties--it pretty much got Peter David's TMNT book cancelled)... and yet it *still* sold out at the publisher.

I think the best thing right now is to keep talking about Gargoyles. Go to the Newsarama forums, talk about "Gargoyles vs. Spider-Man" or "Gargoyles vs. Batman" (that way you can make it relevant for the DC/Marvel message boards, which the majority of the people frequent)... engage in some delightful comic book geekery. Who'd win in a fight: Wonder Woman or Demona?

Scott Iskow - [smiskow@lycos.com]

Long time lurker here. I have a rather esoteric idea for raising awareness. I believe Greg posted this YTMND link a while ago: http://trekgargoyles.ytmnd.com/. It's the best Gargoyles creation on the site. What I'm proposing is sponsorship. If we get above $153, the current 5th place sponsored link, it'll get a permanent spot on the YTMND.com homepage (at least until it's beat in USD). This is an extremely popular site, I think on the level of Fark or Something Awful (as in tens or hundreds of thousands of visitors per month). And they're all nerds; there's tons of Star Trek(hint hint) and other geeky references.

I'd suggest poking around the site (www.ytmnd.com) before plunking down cash, but the site itself is worth getting addicted to if you have geeky sentiments. I've sponsored http://trekgargoyles.ytmnd.com/ for $20, but will certainly do more if other people join in (you'll need Paypal). Click on the triangle on the upper left of any YTMND creation to get access to the site profile with sponsorship info.

Lumpmoose - [lumpmoose@karpacrossamerica.com]

That's absolutly faboulous news about the comic!!!

*Does a dance of joy*

Weeeeee!!! This is GREAT news!!!

Battle Beast - [Canada]
that is all I will say.

At my comic book store today, the staff were talking about how well the Gargoyles book had done. It was amazing to catch that kind of buzz about the book in the store. They had the poster up, and everything.

I just hope this buzz isn't because of some ZOMG ISSUE 1 stuff. I hear that a lot of comics experience a slump in sales near the start, because "collectors" buy first issues for resale value and then aren't interested in staying with the book.

Hopefully most of the people picking up Gargoyles #1 are actually reading it...if they are, they'll want to stay with it :)

Stormy - [decepticoncommand@hotmail.com]

HARVESTER - Hadn't thought of that, but I doubt it. I suspect that the robotic falcon was based more on the fact that a falcon or hawk is the bird most often used for hunting, and would therefore be appropriate for the Hunters. (And that was one of my favorite weapons for the Hunters in "Hunter's Moon" - almost a pity that they only used it in the first part.)
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

Hmmm, well that was interesting. Now that I think about it, the Phoenix Gate does kind of look like a badge.

Todd: As if that weren't bad enough, I just thought of something else while I was watching "Clash of the Titans" on TCM. Does anyone here know if Jon Canmore's mechanical bird in "Hunter's Moon" was supposed to be a nod to the mechanical owl in "Clash of the Titans"?

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"But my cynic soon returns and the lifeboat burns. My spirit just never learns."

HARVESTER - That is one evil creativity demon.

Of course, Snidely Whiplash already got a mention on "Gargoyles" in "Metamorphosis". And if it wasn't for the fact that he came along a little too recently to be public domain (and was created by a non-Disney animation company), I'd half-expect him to show up on stage after that, since we know that whenever a famous legendary or fictional character gets mentioned on "Gargoyles", he or she is eventually, given enough time and episodes, going to show up. It's already happened with Nessie and Nokkar.

Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

visited (not fisited of fisted) >.>
Leo - [<- click]

Warcrafter> *Just fisited the youTube link* So some guy tried to immitate the "Juggernaut B!t$h" with Gargoyles. And he sounds white! How evil. :-P
Leo - [<- click]

OK. I don't know if this was made to make people laugh or to make fun of Gargoyles. I laughed....hard, so if that was wrong I am sorry. (It's also pretty obvious that these guys don't know the plot of Gargoyles)


Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]

Demonic Lover> Do you read our comments and what we are talking about before you post your own? I'm just asking a question
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]

hey yal', I'm back! Just got back from austria. how long is it now until the gathering? If i type in anything in German, let me know. How are the comics going? Blackmore's night came out with a new album Kyt. Any new art from crzydem?
Demonic lover - [broad23way@yahoo.com]

Todd: I was just thinking, and this was actually brought on by your latest creativity demon. At one time in Station 8, I called John Castaway Snidely Whiplash (at least in the Goliath Chronicles, anyway). Having just recently typed the synopsis for the TGC episode "Generations," I got to thinking: wouldn't it have been amusing if the Quarrymen had tried to set up Goliath, Angela, and Brooklyn at the beginning of that episode by hiring some thugs to pretend to tie a lady to some railroad tracks? I can just imagine Castaway going over that plan with his henchman, complete with a top hat and cloak.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Can't clowns and pirates just TRY to get along?"

Scott -- thanks for posting that link. That's great to hear!

Yay! Gargoyles #1 is selling well! ^_^

On the downside, I've had almost zippo free time lately and have barely started on the avatars, sigs, banners, and forum posts. I'll be doing the graphics first, and creating a Gargoyles website to house them. It all should be done within a week or so.

Patrick - "Given the choice, I'd take my chances with a gargoyle before I'd try getting up close and personal with a shark or a crocodile."
I think I'd take my chances with a croc before I'd step into a dark alley with Demona.

Siryn - "Eh, as far as Artie and Lois go, honestly, I'm still less sympathetic to Margo then those too."
I think Margot probably has the most moderate opinion we've seen from the public. She doesn't want them killed, just captured and studied. Granted, to the Gargoyles that's not much of a choice, but Margot doesn't know they're sentient. As far as she's concerned, they're all on the intellectual level of her pet Fifi.

Todd - (But I agree that we should judge these people by what they know about the gargoyles, etc...)
Exactamundo. I agree with everything you just said.

Makhasu - [aknellthatsummonsthee@yahoo.com]

Siryn - < I know how much it's supposed to be..> Could you let us know if / when sales for each issue exceed by a significant amount ( whatever you think is necessary so we can't easily guess the minimum is ) the minimum sales required to reach the breakeven point on costs / specifically the licensing fee? That way we can know, issue by issue, if sales are on track. I can understand not telling us what that minimum number is, but if you could let us know issue by issue if we've exceeded minimal sales by a significant number. I'm assuming the fact that SLG had to make more copies of issue #1 means they're on track for making a profit and thus continuing to produce the comic.

Gorebash - I had trouble getting this post through because of this error message: "UBB style tags do not work in this system. Please remove the tags and try again." I'm not using any style tags in my post.

Whatever happenned to simplicity?

I put some posts about Gargoyles (The comic and DVD) up on some Star Wars boards I've been visiting lately, so let's hope that helps.
Stormy - [decepticoncommand@hotmail.com]

. . . Whoah! My information's been saved! Sweet!

Anyway, Scott, that's some awesome news.

But I have a story, too! It's a tad more on the personal side, but for all I know I managed to get another family to join us all in Tennessee in 207 . . .

I work at the local book store, and a family was purchasing a number of "How-to-Draw" books. One of them was a book on drawing fairies, and I just had to ask:
"Apologies if this is a strange question, but did you ever watch Gargoyles?"

_BOTH_ the mother and the daughter immediately knew what I was talking about. They couldn't believe there was an annual convention! I gave them the website to the Gathering, and they were very thankful. I'd have spoken to them longer, but sadly, the line for people to pay was getting longer. Oh well, here's hoping we'll see a family of three at the Gathering next year!

I just felt like sharing that, since getting word out is so difficult.

Guardian - [Guardian_R105@hotmail.com]
Pardons, I'm still acting like a con-virgn

Forgive me if this was already mentioned, but Newsarama reports that SLG is going back to press on Gargoyles #1. My personal opinion: It will go beyond issue 2. ^_^

Click my name for the Newsarama link.

Scott Iskow - [smiskow@lycos.com]

SIRYN - Are a lot of people really getting tired of everything happening to Brendan and Margot? This is the first that I've heard of it. (And I suspect that there are many people who'd want to see even more such things happen to Margot after her anti-gargoyle statements on Nightwatch....)

But I agree that we should judge these people by what they know about the gargoyles - as in "How would we feel about Art opening fire on Goliath if Goliath really was an evil monster? How would we feel about Margot describing the gargoyles as public menaces if they really were demons?" (Not that it'd change how we felt about Castaway that much; his motives are ignoble ones. He's not going after the gargoyles to protect the city, but out of personal hatred - and the fact that he doesn't have enough of a backbone to admit that he was to blame for Jason's injuries.)

And, though I may be repeating myself, I think that it would make the gargoyles' situation more complex and interesting if you do have the law-abiding citizenry whom they've sworn to protect coming after them as well as the conventional thugs. It was relatively easy for them to deal with the Quarrymen in the Goliath Chronicles, because there the Quarrymen were the regular bad guys whom they'd been foiling before "Hunter's Moon". But when you've got the "innocent" people with good intentions joining their ranks, that makes it trickier. You can no longer take it for granted that the hooded guy coming after you with a hammer is just another one of those street thugs or bank robbers whose dastardly scheme you foiled during one of your patrols back when you were still an urban myth. Now it could be a shopkeeper or housewife or restaurant manager who thinks that you're out to rip him or her and his or her family to shreds. The situation is no longer so black and white. (Although people have brought up that it'd probably be the criminals and mercenaries who'd be doing the bulk of the action work in the Quarrymen anyway.)

Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

Blaqthourne > I guess you could see it that way, but there were a lot of people (myself included) who didn't. There were so many loose ends that weren't tied up, and the Beast Planet wasn't sent to another galaxy...Mainframe admitted there had been plans for a third season, but it got axed by Trendmasters. I agree: best Mainframe series, and probably my most coveted DVDs. *sigh*

Still goes to show, though, the almighty dollar... I wonder if Disney really understands this fandom... For crying out loud, it's been more than ten years since Gargoyles was first on the air and most of the people who saw it originally are adults now! If Disney was expecting the same kind of mad frenzy that happens when the newest Disney kiddie movie gets released, it's no wonder they're disappointed with the sales figures. Although new children undoubtedly discover the show every day, the vast majority of the audience is completely different from what it was. They needed to approach the DVD releases with that in mind, and I don't think they did.

Stormy > I think the fault with distribution problems for the DVDs lies mostly with Disney. I live in a pretty big city, and everywhere I went, they didn't tell me, "We're not carrying it", they told me, "We're sold out and have to special order". To me that says they couldn't get enough regular stock. This isn't to say they're not partially at fault...since there's been hardly any advertising, I could understand a store not wanting to bring in product that most people probably don't know is available.

Shai - [kouryushai@gmail.com]
What color is your straightjacket? http://incyanity.net

David finally figured out what the glitch was with GeoCities. Turns out, it doesn't like files ending with a null-byte, which all of his program-generated files did for some reason. Anyway, it's fixed now. Enjoy my Gathering 2006 photos!


KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]

As I've said before, it confuses me. Gargoyles. DuckTales. TaleSpin. Darkwing Duck. It took Disney a long time to start putting out Disney Afternoon shows on DVD (several have yet to be announced) and then when they do, it's with very little fanfare.

I can understand how they would not want to spend big bucks on TV ads, posters, or display stands, but it confuses me that they don't put an ad on their other DVDs (it's not that hard to take clips from the show and add a voice over describing the show).

Is the spotty distribution because retailers don't want to buy more than the occasional copy to offer for sale, or because Disney isn't distributing well?

I know in my area, some stores DID get Gargoyles eventually, but not till a week or two after the initial release date. And when I bought S2V1, I bought the store's only copy.

Stormy - [decepticoncommand@hotmail.com]

Todd> Yes, the scene with Artie was in the original script for the Journey but was taken out due to the fact Artie is literally trying to shoot Goliath with a gun. (censors didn't like that). The scene was revealed in the Radio play at the Gathering one year.

Greg's pretty much said that he liked how he wrote the journey, and wasn't planning on making major changes, BUT for most fans who don't know, the scene is new. :) In fact, it's still new for the comic regardless because it never made it onto TV.

By issue 3, there will be totally new stuff. :) Greg just wanted to get the retelling of the journey out of the way, just so he could catch up fans (both new and old) on the situation, the characters, the setting mood etc. :)

Eh, as far as Artie and Lois go, honestly, I'm still less sympathetic to Margo then those too. ;) Artie IS just scared, as you pointed out, so while the audience may be 'nooo don't shoot the hero!' Artie is one of our characters that represents 'the normal joe' in New York, so I don't think his actions are going to cause me to feel less sorry for him if he's attacked again.

(It hasn't stopped us from growing tired Margo and Brandon's STREAK of bad luck. ;))

Siryn - [siryn7@aol.com]

I've just ordered the comic book....
finally a reason to keep an eye on the mailbox...
Gathering 2007>I'm going for it!

kjay - [tigonesskay@yahoo.com]
just wondering

Shai> Didn't War Planets pretty much complete the story arc? Sure, it left the door wide open to a continuation of the story in a different galaxy, but the 4 planets' battle against the shadow planet (or whatever it was called, been a while since I watched it) was wrapped up. And the entire series did make it to DVD.
Great, great series, by the way. IMO, the best Mainframe series.

Ooh, and there's Angela laying against the little toy piano Broadway is playing.
Great, now I suddenly have an image of Bronx doing the Snoopy dance in my head.

Blaqthourne & Crimson Fury

SHAI> Yes, Disney should put in more effort, unfortunately, they are not going to. So, it's up to us, the fans, to put in the effort to spread the word, and let people know this DVD exists.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Plato once said that for everything that exists, there is a perfect form of it somewhere. A perfect human being, a perfect chair, a perfect stick, so that everything is a shadow of that one perfect form. Now, if we follow that train of thought, that means that somewhere in the universe there exists the perfect form of the absolute and complete idiot and he left here an hour ago." - Matthew Gideon

Regarding the S2Vol2 DVDs...

I hate it when corporations do crap like this. It's just like what happened to War Planets: Shadow Raiders. They were this close to the end, and then Trendmasters stopped production because the toys weren't selling well enough.

It occurs to me that I haven't seen even one advertisement for Gargoyles on DVD anywhere. I learned about Season 1 being on DVD from a friend. After that, I had to search high and low to actually find a copy. Disney's not helping sales by making it so hard for consumers to get their hands on it. The story was exactly the same with Vol 1 of Season 2. I ended up having to special order it off the internet because I couldn't find it locally and nobody would order it at a reasonable price.

If Disney wants better sales, they should put in more effort!

Shai - [kouryushai@gmail.com]
What color is your straightjacket? http://incyanity.net

HoE> I'm sure Elisa has been down to visit her brother, so, yeah, she must know.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Plato once said that for everything that exists, there is a perfect form of it somewhere. A perfect human being, a perfect chair, a perfect stick, so that everything is a shadow of that one perfect form. Now, if we follow that train of thought, that means that somewhere in the universe there exists the perfect form of the absolute and complete idiot and he left here an hour ago." - Matthew Gideon

Greg's latest ramble got me wondering something: as of "The Journey," does Elisa know that Delilah exists? She wasn't there when the clan had that encounter with Thailog on Coney Island, and I'm wondering if either the clan or Derek told her afterwards, "hey, Elisa, you and Demona have a bastard child." Of course, they'd probably break it to her easier, but you know what I mean.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Can't clowns and pirates just TRY to get along?"

Todd> LOL!!

Then Lex decides to start toting a security blanket with him and Bronx always tries to take it, while Broadway always tries and fails to kick Elisa's football. :P

KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]

PATRICK - Except that most of the people in Manhattan don't know that you can talk things over with a gargoyle.

On a lighter note, here's one scene that will obviously never be in the Gargoyles Comic:

The trio (for some mysterious reason) decide to make an actual doghouse for Bronx. When they're finished, they show it to him. Bronx looks it over, then climbs up on its roof and lies on top of it on his back, stomach up. The trio stare at the sight for a moment, then Brooklyn comments, "Good grief!"

Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

Thanks Ellen - those are really helpful!

Just popping in, hoping to get some info. Long time fan, hardly ever post anymore. Heh. :)
Anyway, in Greg's Gathering post he was talking about there being serious interest for a Gathering in Chicago. Does anyone know who was considering it? I live about a half hour, 45 minutes away and my family still lives in the burbs. If they needed more people to get the ball rolling or help out, I'm all ears. curioussofa at gmail.com


Suppose any member of the criminal element was able to discern a pattern in the clan's patrols. They'd have a pretty easy time of making a clean getaway if they schedule appropriately. This is why police departments in big cities assign their officers to patrol areas rather than predetermined routes. If Elisa has anything to say about it, the clan probably employs a similar methodology.

"It'd be pretty darn foolish to trust something you don't know." - And yet there are some people in the world who'll pretty much jump on top of any animal at least once just for bragging rights. Given the choice, I'd take my chances with a gargoyle before I'd try getting up close and personal with a shark or a crocodile. At least you can talk things over with the gargoyle.

:: imagines Steve Irwin in NYC :: "Crikey, she's a beaut! Look at that coloration! And those glowin' eyes. Good thing I brought me stick. I think she's a wee bit agitated."

351 days until The Gathering 2007 in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee!

Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2007]
"We'll catch them red-handed!" / "What color are their hands now?" - The Great Muppet Caper

Ah, The Gathering, I'm afraid I was in England visiting family so I couldn't go even if I wanted to.

How was it, and where will next year's be held.

Matt Fews
Let's call it Steve - Hammy OTH

JURGAN - To answer your questions.

1. It was recently put in place, a few days ago.

2. It'll make a small dent, I suppose - but a lot of the questions are actually Gathering reports and reviews of the DVDs, or questions about the DVDs and comic that Greg hasn't officially answered yet, so I doubt that the dent will be as big as you were hoping.

I don't think that "acknowledge" would be the correct word with Castaway and the gargoyles' patrol routes, since it would imply that Castaway knows the truth about the gargoyles, but is deliberately withholding it from the Quarrymen and the public. The way that he was characterized in "Hunter's Moon" and "The Journey", however, I would say that he honestly believes that the gargoyles are evil monsters that have to be destroyed - indeed, that what's left of his sanity depends upon it - and that he doesn't know (or if he does know, it's locked down so deep inside him that he's not conscious of it) what their true nature is.

Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

Chameleongirl: <Greg's rambling again!!> Oooh, I've been looking forward to this one. I'll need to sit down and come up with something to say on it later.

By the way, I was perusing Greg's con journal a minute ago. I got a chuckle out of what he called "The Lake House."

dph: <Suppose there's a neighborhood where everybody has a gun just waiting to shoot a gargoyle. Going into that area is dangerous enough because of the criminal element, but when you got a large population looking to shoot to kill as well, I'd say it's a little too dangerous. > It's interesting to theorize on which side of Goliath would win out in a situation like that. On the one hand, I think he does care about the survivial of his species. But on the other hand, at the end of "Hunter's Moon," when the clan was surrounded by a mob of frightened humans (who ran the risk of becoming violent), Goliath's "protector" side still won out.

Makhasu: I still blame the subdued response on the fact that the first two issues are a story that most fans of Gargoyles are familiar with. I anticipate more active discussion of the comic in October when we start getting new material.

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Can't clowns and pirates just TRY to get along?"

Louise -- Here are two outstanding sites for pictorial references, courtesy of Demona Taina and Lynati, respectively:




Patrick - <Do you really think Goliath would be petty enough to withhold the clan's protection from areas of the city where they've encountered hostile reactions? That doesn't sound like like a tactic he'd condone, nor would it help the cause of winning over the hearts and minds of the public at large.> Yes/no. Petty, no, practial, yes. Suppose there's a neighborhood where everybody has a gun just waiting to shoot a gargoyle. Going into that area is dangerous enough because of the criminal element, but when you got a large population looking to shoot to kill as well, I'd say it's a little too dangerous.

Suppose Castaway discovered a pattern in the gargoyles's patrol routes (without acknowledging those were patrol routes) and lined up Quarrymen with hammers to be in the vicinity during those routes. What do you do then? Make sure that your patrol routes are unpredictable or start insisting on 2 or 3 gargoyles stick together on patrol because you know they're going to encounter the Quarrymen?

Whatever happenned to simplicity?

Greg's rambling again!!

Go read his thoughts on The Reckoning :D

Chameleon may changer her spots, but she refuses to do plaid.

It's nice to see so many new faces! Hopefully, some of you newbies will become regular posters here!

WWII and Macbeth - I like to think of Macbeth strapping a dozen grenades to himself, pulling the pins, and running like mad towards the German trenches. ^_^

Artie and the anti-Gargoyle fervor - Actually, I disagree with you guys. While it may sound open-minded to embrace other creatures, it's unreasonable to actually expect that from people. Think of it this way: Massive, clawed, fanged, demon-like creatures are flying around your city at night. You don't know where or when you could encounter them, or what they may do to you. You know nothing about what they're like or where they came from, just rumors from this person or that person who's seen or thought they saw them. It'd be pretty darn foolish to trust something you don't know. In this regard, Margot Yale was actually pretty sensible when she said "We can only be sure of that after they've all been apprehended. We can't take any chances."

Todd Jensen - "In that case, the subdued response really is something to wonder about. Maybe it's just been so long since the show was cancelled that a lot of the fans have "gotten over it" and subtly moved on, without realizing it. I know that it's become that way with me; I'm glad that the comic's coming out, but it hasn't made as big an impact on me as it might have done in, say, 1999."
I guess you may be right. I know a lot of you guys have followed the series for a long time, and didn't drop out of the fandom like I did. For me, returning was like discovering the series all over again. The passionate fan in me was reborn.

Lord Sloth - "Unfortunately, many forums have a strict size requirement, like 1 by 1 inch. Keep that in mind making your avatars, Makhasu."
I am. I've made avatars before and will have these in 60x60 and 100x100 sizes.

Makhasu - [aknellthatsummonsthee@yahoo.com]

Warcrafter> All I can say is try to do something you enjoy. This website helped me alot when my best friend and I split apart because you meet up with new friends with similar intrists (and yes I cant spell)
You can type in your area and things you like and find friends and maybe a new gf at gatherings of people with similar things anways check it out. Also dont be afraid to cry. crying and getting it out of your system is good. Try to go back to doing things you enjoyed before you met the person.



What are positive things to think about or do after finding out you got dumped? :(
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]

Sorry, misread your post. The correct answer is "all of them." Shit, if I had no fingers, it would be mighty hard punching keys with a stick in my mouth (especially since my job involves computers).
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Can't clowns and pirates just TRY to get along?"

I just joined the Gathering Updates group, though not with the username I wanted. If I ever get my hands on the person who took "Harvester of Eyes" from me, I'll buy him or her a drink, because it's always nice to meet someone who likes the Blue Oyster Cult album "Secret Treaties." Then I'll slay them, because there can be only one!

Patrick: Hey, if you want to stick to those miserable excuses for fireworks that call themselves black snakes, you're welcome to them. Leave the lethal ordnance to the rest of us. And to answer your question, none. My mind, however, is missing (last seen in the gutter).

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Can't clowns and pirates just TRY to get along?"

Unrelated question. Todd: The other day I was asking about the possibility of you kicking inane questions out of the queue. I was referring to this post from Greg W.:

"In addition, Gorebash has been working on the site to allow Todd to answer some frequently asked questions for me by searching the archives. We haven't totally got the new system up and running, but the long awaited upgrade to ASK GREG is on the verge of reality here. REJOICE!!!"

The question I was referring to probably doesn't apply, as it was so ridiculous that I don't think anyone ever thought to ask it before. Also, it's not clear if the system has yet been updated. So, I have two questions:

1: When will the new, improved system come online, or is it already?
2: How much difference do you think it will make- will it significantly reduce the length of the queue?

Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]

PATRICK - Um, it was DPH who suggested that, not me. What I was saying was that I was wondering if, after the audience had seen Art opening fire on Goliath, they'd be less sympathetic the next time that he and Lois got targeted by an organized crime protection racket. Or, in general, if the audience would be a lot less sympathetic to the general public in Manhattan after seeing them behave in such an anti-gargoyle fashion.

But I certainly can't imagine Goliath and his clan deciding to stop patrolling the city because of it. (Nor can I imagine, for that matter, Elisa teaming up with a criminal or terrorist gang to wipe out the human populace of Manhattan, and when the leader of said gang asks her "Why are you betraying your own kind?", replying bitterly, "They're not my kind.")

Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

No, your best bet is somewhere like Dixons or Currys.
Justin - [gillespiejustin@hotmail.com]

Thanks Justin! I'll certainly be looking into that! Did you order your DVD from Amazon.com? (I've never used them before, so don't know how reliable they're likely to be...)

I know I've got really fond memories from when Gargoyles was first aired. I don't have the Disney Channel though, so I haven't seen it since it was first aired on... whatever main channel it was (it was a long time ago!) I found a site with some quotes on it, and it was amazing just how vividly I could remember and picture the scenes! I remember missing quite a few episodes. I can't remember exactly when they were shown... They must have clashed with either school, holidays, or riding lessons... I'm going to have to get a hold of the DVDs somehow! And in the meantime, I think I'll have to satisfy myself with some Gargoyles fanart *goes off to search for good reference pics*


Hi guys. In answer to the question of region free dvd players, you should be able to pick one up without too much trouble. Alba and Bush both make 'em. I picked mine up a few years ago for around €50 (roughly £30) and it plays region 1 discs just fine. Speaking of region 1 discs, my copy of Gargoyles season 1 arrived yesterday. I'd fond memories of the series from when it was shown on the Disney Channel in the mid 90s but oh my god! It's fantastic! Only problem is trying to stick to my 1 episode a night rationing to make it last!
Justin - [gillespiejustin@hotmail.com]

mahahaha I got the comic and I got it signed by everyone.

(is done with random fandom fangirl sqweeeling)

Shara - [jeanie54_2000@yahoo.com]

*comes out of normal lurker mode*
I'm so happy! My best friend and I found the Gargoyles Comic this Morning :) <Of course I already read it and two of my little sisters read it as soon I was done...lol> That sucks about Amazon...my sympathies to those of you dealing with problems with Amazon. It took some searching this morning <my friend and I went to four different book/comic stores this morning...my friend reads lots of Manga Graphic Novels, so we kept looking in those sections. We finally found it though at Shinder's this morning...I'm not sure how wide spread Shinder's is...but if you're in the Twin Cities area in MN I know there's a couple on the North-Northeast side of the Metro Area and there might be some on the West and East sides too. I picked up the last copy, but atleast they had it and it's a place to try. <Plus there's no shipping charges:) > Just an idea...
Happy hunting for the comic and hopefully enough people will pick issue one up to ensure that more comics are published in the future. There's also a big letter from Greg about the fandom and Gargoyles the series, which will hopefully make people realize that there's a DVD too as well as a large online fandom, since he does mention several websites, including S8.

*goes back to lurking*


Hope everyone had a good Fourth of July. I'm back to work today after two and a half weeks off. Going to be hard to get back into the old routine.

HoE > How many fingers do you have left? Someone once told me to never take advice on woodworking or explosives from anyone with missing digits.

Todd > Do you really think Goliath would be petty enough to withhold the clan's protection from areas of the city where they've encountered hostile reactions? That doesn't sound like like a tactic he'd condone, nor would it help the cause of winning over the hearts and minds of the public at large.

352 days until The Gathering 2007 in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee!

Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2007]

Roy, Battle Beast, Ed - Thanks for the response! I've come across DVD players that are region free but can apparantly only play non-coded discs... I'll do a search on google and see what I can find.

Well, it looks like amazon.com finally got a graphic up for the comic. Maybe that means they finally got their hands on some.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Can't clowns and pirates just TRY to get along?"

Blaqthourne> Glad you made it home.

Off-topic, can someone tell me what I'm doing wrong? I have the G2006 thumbnails on my site, but Geocities won't let me upload the actual [ictures. I don't know why. The film size(s) aren't overly large, it's not the format, and it's not the file name. Someone please help.

KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]

Just got back (yesterday) from the Gathering. Takes a while to go from Anaheim to Phoenix to San Diego to San Francisco to Oakland and 3 days to get home. Had a blast. Almost ran out of cash money due to spending quite a bit more than I would have ever expected at the auction.

This little town near the NM/TX border caught my eye: Vado, NM.

Matt> With all the Canada mentions, that story made me invision Scott Thompson delivering that line.

Anyone in the Windsor/Detroit area? If so, are they still doing the Freedom Festival with the very impressive fireworks show over the Detroit River?

Blaqthourne & Crimson Fury

Hi Louise & Roy. Just to add further that I ordered in from Amazon.com and bought a program called "DVD Region+CSS Free". It cost £21 at the time and was downloadable and seems to have done the trick. It does mean it's a bit limited though since you'll only be able to play it on your computer -- unless you know someone who has a Region-free player. Makes it harder to introduce people to the show and that, but other than that it works pretty well.

That's a better answer than mine! Thanks, Roy!!!
Battle Beast - [Canada]
that is all I will say.

Louise> My friend got a "region free" DVD palyer in Chinatown (Here in Edmonton) but there are many available. Try looking for one in the UK. There SHOULD be one kind or another.

This is all I can suggest for now... I know you probably already have a good DVD palyer...

Battle Beast - [Canada]
that is all I will say.

Hi folks, just making a quick stop again.

I saw Louis' DVD region question and thought I could help answer. I'm in Japan where its also region 2. Most of my DVD collection I brought from the states is region 1. There are (legal)ways to get around the region 'problem.'

One is you can get a region-free DVD player. You can google it and find a bunch of manufacturers that will offer players that will not only play most, if not all regions, some players can play both PAL and NTSC as well. While in the states, I went as far as buying a Japanese DVD player to play DVDs I brought over from Japan. It's a pricey option, but it works, obviously.

Another is to purchase a DVD-rom for your PC. DVD-roms can switch regions, but only have a limited amount of times you can do it. There are hacks, but I wouldn't recommend it. I have two DVD-roms(one for region 1, one for region 2) on my work PC simply because I need it for work purposes. There is legitimate software out there that supposedly help get rid of region coding for those users who only have one DVD-rom drive. Haven't tried it, so I can't comment on it. And of course, you'll be stuck watching your DVDs on a computer monitor instead of TV set unless you have your comp connected to a TV.

Roy Sato

Todd - <On the other hand, anybody besides me suspect that the next time that Art and Lois's restaurant gets targeted by an extortion racket, the audience will be a lot less sympathetic towards them?> And when a crime wave hits their neighberhood and Goliath thinks twice about doing something about it, I won't dot an eye.
Whatever happenned to simplicity?

Happy independance day everyone!

Harvester : You're going to be amazed by this, as I don't even remember the comment, let alone who said it.

"Why do people always use sports metephors when they want you to do somthing stupid?" - David Swaine

Warcrafter> LOL!!
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]

Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]

So the scene with Art shooting at Goliath was something that Greg had included in the original script for "The Journey" (like the Matt and Chavez scene), rather than new material specifically created for the comic?

At any rate, I'm interested in that scene, because it allows attacks on the gargoyles to come from the "law-abiding citizens" rather than just the "bad guys", which could give the comic much more depth in handling the gargoyles' situation than the Goliath Chronicles did.

On the other hand, anybody besides me suspect that the next time that Art and Lois's restaurant gets targeted by an extortion racket, the audience will be a lot less sympathetic towards them? :)

Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

Asatira - Thanks for the reply. The DVDs available on Amazon are region 1 (U.S. and Canada) UK is region 2, but so far there don't appear to be any region 2 Gargoyles DVDs availabe anywhere. I know there was once a video available - it was a condensed version of several episodes into a sort of mini-movie, but that's all I've ever found, and it was a long time ago. If I were ever to get my hands on Gargoyles DVDs that I could watch over here I'd be over the moon!

I had never realised that Gargoyles still had such a fanbase. I've just been looking through information on the Gatherings that take place every year. They look like they would be amazing to attend...


Happy 4 of July! At least for those cities who can afford it. Stupid city officals spent the entire budget on some useless land deal here in Marquette.
Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]
Remember the old Gargoyles comics!

Wingless: I ordered from Hill City comics myself and I just got the order in today (ordered June 18th). I only ever get two confirmation e-mails from them and then my order shows up at my door two-three weeks later. Holding the comic in my hands is great, but I'm torn between the art myself. It looks more rushed than anything else.
The Barracuda

Harvester of Eyes : I don't know anything about SLG's store, but I called them back on June 22nd or 23rd and ordered over the phone. The comic arrived June 29th.

SLG didn't have the comic posted at their webstore until Tuesday of last week (7 days after it hit comic book store shelves).


Hi, Louise. Welcome to the board. I don't think I can help with the DVD as I'm not sure how the regions work. Though it does bring up a good point? Is Disney even considering international markets?

Happy fourth, people.


Ry: That's interesting. When I checked last week, they didn't seem to be offering any copies in their store.

Happy Fourth, everyone! And for those not lucky enough to have smuggled explosives over from Mexico, remember that legal fireworks can be fun if you tie all the fuses in the pack together and use lighter fluid. But seriously, don't try that (unless you really really want to).

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"This land is your land. This land is my land. Looks like one of us has a forged deed to this land."

Newbie to the forum...

I fell in love with Gargoyles when it was first aired but sadly don't have any of the episodes on tape or DVD. I was wondering if there was anyone else on here from the UK that knows if/where it's possible to get any of the series on video/DVD? I know DVDs have been released in America, but haven't been able to find any over here.


Hey, guys! Give Slave Labor a try. (http://store.slavelabor.com or calling them at 1-800-866-8929.) They are the publisher of the comic, so what better way than to buy direct? ;) I bought a copy through them ($3.50, plus $4.00 S&H) and it took about a week to arrive. Sure beats waiting for Amazon.

Amazon: I see I'm not the only one. I have not recieved an email from them either. I think I might cancel my order with them and buy it at another online store.

And Happy Fourth of July my fellow Americans! Mine is so lame this year.

Purplegoldfish - [Skydragonn@aol.com]

(sorry for the double post, two more things)

#1. The comics, even though they are retelling 'the Journey' do have scenes that were not in the original show (that Greg wanted to put in). So for those people arguing about the first two comics not having new content, you're wrong. They do, nah. Go get them! ;)

An example in the first comic is Artie shooting at Goliath. This was taken out by the censors for...pretty obvious reasons.


#2. DPH> I know how much it's supposed to be.. (i'm not sure if I'm supposed/allowed to say the approximate number.) Needless to say, the # is counting on people outside the fandom to also buy the comic.

Siryn - [siryn7@aol.com]
Vinnie Grigori's #1 Fan!

Matt> Very cool story!

I haven't been able to get to my local comic shop yet, but I did show my buddy (and fellow comic collector) my issue, and he seemed intrigued and said he would definately watch the series.

So yay! One corruption at a time. O.o

Siryn - [siryn7@aol.com]
Vinnie Grigori's #1 Fan!

KAYLLE - I'm still waiting for Amazon.com to inform me that they're shipping it.

Well, happy Fourth of July, everybody!

Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

goth - <is the comic story the same as the first chapter of the chronicles? or is it different from the preview pages it looks like the same story.> Don't let issues #1 & 2 being a retelling of an existing story be a hinderance from buying them. If we don't get good sales for issues 1 & 2, as I understand it, we don't get issue #3. The deal Disney gave SLG is pretty lump-sized. Disney gets x amount of dollars upfront *regardless* of how well the Gargoyles comic sells. I didn't have the confidence to ask exactly how many copies of the Gargoyles comic have to be sold to reach the break-even point on costs, specifically the licensing fee.
Whatever happenned to simplicity?

Todd: Someone in here a few weeks ago (I forget his name, though I'm sure others here remember it) suggested mycomicshop.com. I tried them, and my issue got here in about a week. The shipping is a little high (the cheapest option is about four bucks), and they also don't e-mail you when they've shipped it, but I was satisfied. They did a great job packing the order for shipment. Of course, I'm not sure what all of the paying options are. I used my check card.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"According to the legends of a thousand worlds only a few of which are still habitable, the W'rkncacnter are those things that live in chaos, creating it around them. At the beginning of the universe, they were unmistakable in their entities, but as time has gone by, their existence has become difficult to detect among the chaotic elements of the universe, hidden in stars, trapped in storms, forever looking along the event horizons of black holes. Setting one free in ordered space is difficult and insane." -Durandal

I'm going to prowl around Midtown comics on 39th and 7th ave to see if they have "Gargoyles" this friday. If they have it I'll let evryone know.
kjay - [tigonesskay@yahoo.com]
I have to work on the 4th of july!

I got an email from Amazon yesterday saying that the comic was shipping "sooner than expected" and I now have a tracking number and an estimated arrival date of July 6. So they do appear to be shipping things at least some of the time, although they don't seem to be very organized.

I was hoping to buy a whole bunch of copies of the first issue and leave them in public places around campus (I wasn't able to go to the Gathering this year; my job wasn't cooperative, so I figured this would be my contribution to the fandom this year). I figured I'd put some in the student center, some in the waiting rooms at the medical center, etc. But now I'm not sure where I'd go to get 30 copies... Amazon doesn't seem to be the best venue. Any ideas, anyone?

Kaylle - [kaylle at ladyavalon dot com]

Purplegoldfish > I had a similar experience on amazon. When I ordered the comic I received a June 30 ship date. But on that date I received an email that all my *other* stuff was shipping - but no ship date was given for the comic.

goth > The comic covers the first part of "The Journey," which was the first episode of The Goliath Chronicles. Issue #2 will complete the story.


is the comic story the same as the first chapter of the chronicles? or is it different from the preview pages it looks like the same story.

dang I totally missed top 10! anyway, hope your all having a great weekend
faytefire - [dragondreamer@comcast.net]

I ordered the comic from this place. On the plus side they take paypal. But as I said earlier, they were out of stock and say the comick is backordered. Why they say it will take 2-4 weeks is beyond me. How long does it take to reprint a comic these days? It's been a week and a half and I've not yet heard back from them since I placed my order:-(

PURPLEGOLDFISH - I know the feeling. I'm also wondering when Amazon.com is going to sort things out. I thought of ordering on-line from Slave Labor Graphics, but it turned out that you need to have either a Visa or a Mastercard to do that, and since I don't have either, I'll have to find some other way. I should have probably just taken the bus to a comic shop in St. Louis and ordered there.

Does anybody know of anywhere else where you can order the comic on-line?

Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

Matt> Great news about the comic. Nice story, too. :)
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]

I know I don't post much anymore, but I am out at the mall right now and had an experience regarding the comic. Has anyone else tried looking for it at Hot Topic?

The Hot Topic in Brea Mall didn't know about Gargoyles, Or Tron, or Wondeland, or even Haunted Mansion.

But they carry individual issues of Johnny and Lenore RIGHT NOW.

And they carried Marvel's Gargoyles comic in the past.

I think I got the sales clerks here excited enough to place an order. At least I hope so.

But I am a little concerened it was news to them.

Shannon 'Shan' Muir - [shanemuir@aol.com]
Shannon 'Shan' Muir

Cool story: I'm here on vacation in San Francisco and the other night my friend Mike and I were walking through the Castro district, which is the gayest part of the city. Right in the middle of all the bars, porn shops and other ummm, interesting places was a small comic book store. I went in and said to the clerk, "I know this is a long shot, but did you get any copies of Gargoyles in lately?" And he said, "Yeah, I ordered five, but I sold them all really quickly." And I said "I guess thats good news." And he said "Yeah, I would've ordered more but I didn't realize it would be so popular. The guys around here really love Lexington." And I laughed and said "How'd you know about Lexington." And he got that great funny gay voice and said "Honey, everyone here knows about Lexington."
Anyway, I told him to push the comic and use the Lexington angle if he has to. Just goes to show you that there are a lot more fans of Gargoyles out there than we might expect. Keep talking about it, it will help.

Matt 'Heart' San Francisco

It was late when I psoted... sorry...

I watched Canadain Bacon (As I always do on Canada Day (Thanks Todd!)) and It gets funnier with every viewing.

"I've never read any Canadian literature," (What, no Pierre Burton?!) "And when is the last time you heard any say, 'lets go out and get some Canadian food'?"

Battle Beast - [Canada]
that is all I will say.

Actually Lord Sloth, I recounted a couple of times-the top ten is correct-Battlebeast is sixth. It got confusing because Siryn used two different colors and she and I have the same avatar.

and ARGHH I'm so annoyed at Amazon! The estimated delivery date for my comics was supposed to be June 30th to today...and they haven't even shipped them yet! What's going on?
How can we expect the comics to do well when it's so damn hard to get our hands on it?

Purplegoldfish - [Skydragonn@aol.com]


I better set this most important ritual straight: everyone above Siryn step forward (sorry Leo and Matt), and I guess lucky 13 for moi. No blame, just avatar confusion mixed with just excitement, though Battle Beast got it right.

And happy belated Canada day, good on those who announced it. The Nova Scotians here take it very seriously, though only some towns are designated festivities (mine included), others get other days for fair distribution of tourists. Next to them, I must seem quite the humbug.

1940's Macbeth> It raises some interesting questions (for Demona too), wither he would immediately have the endurance at that point to care about a cause, even one that huge; ww1 may well be a case where he, disgusted with stupidity, refused to play. The other dilemma he would have to face is the problem for all immortals, that once he puts himself in harms way to help people (and there's no limit, I imagine, thanks to the sisters) he faces the danger of coming back from the dead in front of both allies and enemies, and once it's discovered that he can't die, everyone would want to use him to no end. Not an easy hand that he's been dealt, that's for certain; and all cause Mr. Arch-ego-power-trip-mage wanted cannon fodder? Hopefully not.


Lord Sloth - [nibor_niwri@hotmail.com]
"I know my apprehetions might never be allayed and so I close realizing that perhaps, the ending, is not yet, writen."

Dang, just missed it... 11 is my lucky number though...


9th and my con journal has been posted :Will nag SO until he has posted his:
Spacebabie - [spacebabie@hotmail.com]

Kythera of Anevern
I do not suffer fools, gladly or otherwise.



Chameleon may changer her spots, but she refuses to do plaid.

Battle Beast - [Canada]
that is all I will say.

Sixth!!! I actually made it!!!
Battle Beast - [Canada]
that is all I will say.

yay, 5th! ^_^
Yami Raven - [raven_mccloud2002@yahoo.com]
Puck: Ooh, you really hurt him with that one. Do it again.

Great...so I guess I am fourth.. ;P

Gore> Email me! ;D *SMOOCH*

Siryn - [siryn7@aol.com]

Argh, nevermind, I'm third!
Purplegoldfish - [Skydragonn@aol.com]

3rd!! :D
Siryn - [siryn7@aol.com]

ooh first!
Purplegoldfish - [Skydragonn@aol.com]

Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]

Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]

First! Nyeah! ^_^
Makhasu - [aknellthatsummonsthee@yahoo.com]