Comment Room Archive : Gargoyles : Station Eight

Except, that as Greg has said, Xanatos hasn't changed that much. His priorities have shifted, but his goals and methods haven't. The comic will show that he is still a scheming, manipulative bastard. He won't harm the gargoyles, but he will still use and manipulate them.

As for Demona, I've spoken about this before. But, I highly doubt that Angela is going to redeem Demona. For one, we know that at the beginning of 2198, Demona is still plotting against humanity... long after Angela's death.

If anything, I expect that Angela will be Demona's new justification. "To protect my daughter, I must destroy humanity. She'll thank me later." Angela's existence, and Angela speaking well of humans did nothing to deter Demona from her big genocide scheme in "Hunter's Moon".

And, well, just my personal background, but I don't believe in that "power of a child's love" BS. Maybe it's just my personal background, and my horrible relationship with my late father, but, well... as much as I love "Gargoyles", that line always made me gag.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"They spent so much time looking at Janet Jackson's tit, I actually thought Osama bin Laden was hiding in it." - Lewis Black
posted @ Sun, Jul 23, 2006 8:51:47 pm EDT from 68.199.4.45

No ones above redemption even Demona. All it takes is something that makes them want change like for Xanatos it was Alex and Fox that made him change, for Demona it could be Angela all she needs is a reason for her to change for Angela.
sho-sho - [bigmon15@verizon.net]
posted @ Sun, Jul 23, 2006 8:34:19 pm EDT from 71.246.126.50

the most touching gargoyle scene to me Demona's "the password is Alone". It makes you look at demona's reason for hating humans in a totally different way. Maybe she's not above redemption.
kjay
I'm still waiting for my Gargoyles Comic to come in the mail...
posted @ Sun, Jul 23, 2006 6:54:03 pm EDT from 69.112.127.60

......................I really have nothing to say. I just wanted to post something because it's been a while.............well actually here's something. Remember a while back someone here (I can't remember who) showed a video of a guy who talked about how much a Mac sucks, well here's a video similar to that, only it shows a guy talkin' about how WoW has stolen his life practically....oh, and there's a guy dressed like an orc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4YEbbe7n6M&search=playing%20world%20of%20warcraft
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
I LIKE PIE
posted @ Sun, Jul 23, 2006 5:04:13 pm EDT from 69.231.250.85

The main reason that posting complete news stories is frowned upon is that it fills the comment board up with clutter. The ability exists here to post a link, so use it. The people who want to read the article will do so, and those who don't won't have to scroll past all that text.

334 days until The Gathering 2007 in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2007]
"We have so little to do and so much time! Wait. Scratch that, reverse it." - Willy Wonka (Gene Wilder)
posted @ Sun, Jul 23, 2006 2:20:45 pm EDT from 70.229.195.170

Dragomir> I believe a dragonelle is like a mini-dragon. Here's the website where I got the info

http://www.chaos-enterprises.com/legendmaker/resources/Monsters/Monster%20Pages/dragonelle.html

I hope it helps :0)
Mayelin - [dulcemiel83@aim.com]
posted @ Sun, Jul 23, 2006 10:50:03 am EDT from 67.83.33.17

Gargoyle statue story>> For the sake of the site, I would like Gorebash to make sure what you just did was legal. The usual standard on forums like this is to post a link and the first paragraph or so of the story. Otherwise, you risk violating US copyright laws (This site's based out of Virginia, if I'm reading the WHOIS service results correctly.)

Still, it's Gorebash's site to lose, so if he's fine with it, I ain't calling the Feds. Are you? I just want Gorebash to be aware of it.

Still, the thought of a statue so outrageous that *Key West*-- the Conch Republic, the home of the marijuana heads, *straight*, married drag queens and other assorted free spirits-- balked at it makes me giggle.

Gargoyles moments that touched me>>
Brooklyn mourning Hudson in "The Price", up until the trite "one in a million" bit. It seemed that he had some genuine grief about not paying enough attention to the old gargoyle in life, before he felt compelled to say that phrase -- which really means "I am at a loss for words" -- perhaps out of shame that he would feel self-pity upon witnessing another's *death*, or perhaps out of the utter pain of the fact the he can only blame himself for his attitude towards Hudson.

It wasn't until this year that I realized that he was crying, actually, or that Goliath tried to comfort him.

Thinking of Brooklyn and Goliath>>
I really noticed Goliath's line about feeling alone when reading the comic. It seems to me that in the show, we see Goliath be indignant and maybe even vengeful about his fate, but I don't recall him actually expressing loneliness... until now. That was something I've always associated with Brooklyn, even though the only times he remotely approached that subject were "Temptation" and IIRC "The Cage". Perhaps Goliath and Brooklyn have even more similarities than I realize.

Of course, we all know about Demona's line: "The password is: alone." But that's another story.
JJ Gregarius
posted @ Sun, Jul 23, 2006 3:04:07 am EDT from 206.57.93.104

Did anyone see this story about the supposedly anatomically correct gargoyle (well not according to others ideas of gargoyle anatomy)statue that has caused a flap in Palm Beach? It is funny. See website for photo (no they only show from chest up)

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/pbcwest/content/local_news/epaper/2006/07/21/m1a_BINO_0721.html?cxtype=rss&cxsvc=7&cxcat=17

DIRTY HAROLD?
A strip club's anatomically correct gargoyle flusters county officials.
By Frank Cerabino

Palm Beach Post Columnist

Friday, July 21, 2006

An anatomically correct gargoyle outside a suburban West Palm Beach strip club has been a moving target of intrigue for county officials who've been snapping photos, debating the creature's artistic merits and commenting on its proportionality.

Harold," a 1,200-pound, 7-foot-tall statue made of hardened clay, is a fanged, winged creature with a long tail.

But they're not the anatomical features getting all the attention and causing T's Lounge owner Gary Odle to move the gargoyle again and again around his property to allay the concerns of county oglers.

"You've got to be standing 2 or 3 feet away from it to notice," Odle said.

It all started a few months ago when Odle bought the statue from a roadside art dealer in Key Largo.

"I have a home in the Keys and I've been passing that statue on the side of U.S. 1 for three years, and then one day I saw a 'for sale' sign on it," he said.

The statue's artist, Therisa Stack, said it took her two years to make the gargoyle she named Harold, and it was her husband's idea to add the wedding tackle.

"It was just a whim," she said. "It wasn't done out of spite."

Stack draped a towel over the statue's crotch for much of the six years it squatted alongside U.S. 1 waiting for a buyer. And when Odle bought it, she told him, in case he hadn't noticed, that the statue was fully endowed.

"He said, 'That's OK, as long as it isn't bigger than mine,' " Stack remembered.

Odle said he paid about $4,500 between the purchase and the shipping to get the statue to his strip club, as part of what he characterized as an effort to "dress the place up."

Plus, he liked the gargoyle for its historical uses to ward off evil.

"When she told me it keeps evil spirits away, I said, 'I gotta have it,' " he said.

But it didn't keep county officials away.

Odle first put the gargoyle near his sign, which advertises the weekly entertainers.

Bob Dovey, a staffer from County Commissioner Warren Newell's office, began taking an interest in the statue after someone complained.

Doug Sager, a code enforcement officer with the county, took photos of it and forwarded them to other county officials. The statue, which Dovey referred to as "our infamous evil statue," became the subject of a possible county intervention.

"So I moved it to the roof," the strip club owner said. "There's a guardrail on the roof, which would hide the part of the statue that was offending them so much."

But that just got him in more trouble.

"Maybe we need to have Building Division look at it too since they originally told you it was too heavy to move," Dovey e-mailed Sager at code enforcement. "If so, isn't it too heavy for the roof structure?"

The county's building department was now involved.

"If the monster is that heavy, it is an immediate threat to safety, having been placed on a rooftop that is not designed for that load," building department supervisor Rebecca Caldwell e-mailed Dovey and Sager. "Doug, do you have authority to close the place until it is removed?"

Faced with having his business shut down over a statue, Odle moved Harold back to ground level, this time in the most conspicuous place possible - between two gold lions, only a few feet from the passing traffic on heavily used Congress Avenue.

This created another round of county consternation and photo taking. But so far, efforts to get the county attorney's office involved have come up short.

"This statue has an impressive (!) genital area," Sager e-mailed Assistant County Attorney Lenny Berger.

But Berger, who has a background with the county's arts council, looked at the photos and fired back this response: "You call that impressive? You need a zoom lens to photograph it!

"It is art work," Berger continued. "Very ugly, but art just the same."

Odle said he wouldn't be surprised if the county tells him to move the statue again.

"It seems to be able to stay in one place for a month," he said.

He compares the hubbub over his gargoyle to that surrounding a busty mermaid statue that eventually overstayed its welcome outside the Wellington Community Center.

"Maybe they should move the gargoyle with the mermaid," Commissioner Newell said.

The artist, Stack, said she understands that people become squeamish over such things. Even the Key West Arts Council balked at displaying her statue, she said.

But mostly she worries that something bad will happen to her creation, which still has a place in her heart and whose photo is her computer's screen saver.

"I love him," she said.

She loves him enough, she said, to save him through artful surgery - if that's what it takes.

"It can be removed," she said.

She wishes everyone would just concentrate on seeing the rest of the statue, too.

"Don't shoot the artist for your inability to appreciate art," she said.
bmb - [bmbcali@yahoo.com]
posted @ Sun, Jul 23, 2006 1:58:59 am EDT from 4.232.165.36

Dragomir: Boy, are you in for some disappointment when Demona makes her first appearance in the comic.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"You don't win friends with salad."
posted @ Sun, Jul 23, 2006 1:45:31 am EDT from 69.174.3.196

oh yeah, one last question I would like to post here before i go to bed. Does anyone here know what a dragonelle is? I know its somekind of fantasy type creature or something, but have been unable to gather any information it. I was hoping someone here may be knowledgable about mythological creatures to be able to tell me more about this particular beastie, all I really know so far is that it is some form of dragon. Thankyou in advance to anyone who answers my inquiry, have a great night's sleep...day's is you are a gargoyle surfing the web before hitting the parapets for the day, lol. (:
Dragomir
Demona smiles wickedly in her Pirates of the Carribean outfit and says, "The human race must pay for the pain it has caused me, savy?"
posted @ Sun, Jul 23, 2006 1:13:40 am EDT from 65.96.147.211

Hi guys, been a while eh? I've been busy doing summer vacation stuff with my family and catching up on my gargoyles saga reading, hope to be done with season 3 soon so I can move on to either Time Dancer or Pendragon. I love how Demona's a good guy in these stories, an angry good guy who loves to beat up on her ex mate Thailog, but a good guy none the less, lol. I also love the new villains who keep popping up, Vlad is awesome.
I think Angela shares her mother's cunning nature, but don't think she would ever go completely bad (unless perhaps a human put a shotgun round in Broadway's head or something). We also have to remember that Goliath also has a bad temper, not just Demona. The only difference is that Goliath has more restraint, usually. I totally Think he would have killed many of his enemies, such as Xanatos, out of pure rage if not for the intervention of Elisa. Angela has a temper, but so do most gargs looking to protect their friends from harm.
Dragomir
I stare Demona in the face and say, "You are without a shadow of a doubt the worst gargoyle I have ever heard of." To which she replies in her lovely, smug voice, "Ah, but you have heard of me."
posted @ Sun, Jul 23, 2006 12:59:13 am EDT from 65.96.147.211

Im sorry for the language befor i will try not to do it again and thanks to every one for the warm welcome.Now for the whole Angela temper thing i would have to say I think it is something she learned while on the trip around the world. She did not seem to have a temper untill she started the trip.
sho-sho - [bigmon15@verizon.net]
posted @ Sat, Jul 22, 2006 10:37:34 pm EDT from 71.246.111.235

Angela, temper, etc: People can be genetically predisposed to a bad temper--but they also have the choice how hard they want to fight it.

Angela's upbringing suggests that she has had very little to be angry/wrathful about in her "nurture,"
seeing as she had a rookery who seemed to all like her well enough, and three doting human "parents." However, she might have a bit of a genetic predisposition to temper, now that in the human world she has found things to be angry /about/. But I also believe that her morality will not allow her to act free-reign on those emotions/tendencies the way Demona lets herself. Demona indulges that temper; Angela, I think, will more often than not try to restrain herself (And will feel regret if she fails to).
Stormy - [decepticoncommand@hotmail.com]
posted @ Sat, Jul 22, 2006 7:28:14 pm EDT from 142.167.201.98

HARVESTER - And when Angela asks Goliath that question in "The New Olympians", he replies, "We cannot make war upon an entire island" - which evokes his words to Demona in "Awakening", "I cannot make war upon an entire world."
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Sat, Jul 22, 2006 6:55:03 pm EDT from 4.244.214.6

Which brings up the whole nature vs nurture thing. I lean towards nature, because I did not meet my grandfather until I was 22, and the similarities (which many would think could only be learned) were uncanny.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"They spent so much time looking at Janet Jackson's tit, I actually thought Osama bin Laden was hiding in it." - Lewis Black
posted @ Sat, Jul 22, 2006 6:27:43 pm EDT from 68.199.4.45

So is vengefulness genetic, or is it learned? There are clearly some ways that Angela is like Demona that are most certainly genetic, such as the structure of her wings. There are other traits that she clearly inheritered from Goliath, like her coloration. But I don't think that her temper is something that can be considered as purley coming from her mother or her father. Upbringing plays a role, too.

335 days until The Gathering 2007 in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2007]
"There is no theory of evolution. Just a list of animals Chuck Norris allows to live."
posted @ Sat, Jul 22, 2006 6:23:34 pm EDT from 70.229.195.170

Stormy: Though I think some of us try harder than others. ( ;

Greg B: Oh, I don't have much doubt that she is her mother's daughter, perhaps more than she'd like to admit. There was another moment where she reminded me of Demona, in "The New Olympians." Shortly after they hear Boreas's decree that Elisa can never leave the island, Angela angrily asks Goliath, "Why are we putting up with this?" For some reason, this made me think of the argument between Demona and Goliath in the hallway in "Awakening, Part One." I think it was the tone in Angela's voice.

But to be honest, I think if she does have that vengeful side, it comes from both sides of the family. Goliath does a better job keeping things in perspective, but we've seen that he wouldn't be above killing someone out of wrath. Which reminds me, another moment Lynati can add to her list would be the scene in the warehouse from "Deadly Force." If Broadway hadn't stopped him, Goliath would have murdered Dracon.

"Elisa WILL have her revenge through me!"

Followed immediately by Broadway's confession. THAT took guts. The first time I watched that scene, I cringed along with Broadway. That whole warehouse scene just kicked ass. Goliath thinks that Dracon is the one who shot Elisa, Broadway is going mad with guilt, and the two of them are just venting on Dracon and his men. Very well-executed.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Spellchecking is your friend. Spellchecking vill not bite you und throw you in zee basement."
posted @ Sat, Jul 22, 2006 9:56:26 am EDT from 69.174.3.196

Welcome, sho-sho!

Kythera: I noticed your "Firefly" reference. I've recently been introduced to that very interesting series.

Memorable emotional moments: Some of my favorites have been mentioned. Others include Angela's joyful response to Goliath's "I am proud of you, my daughter" at the end of "Mark of the Panther," Goliath's "Must I lose my daughter to prove this is evil?" to Anubis/Emir in "Grief," the way Broadway welcomes Elisa back in "The Gathering," and the exchange between Broadway and Elisa at the end of "Deadly Force."
Abby
posted @ Sat, Jul 22, 2006 9:45:09 am EDT from 24.118.226.247

Leo--It's kind of creepy, isn't it? I met him almost ten years ago now...

sho-sho: Welcome to the comment room! I will let you know, we try to keep the language relatively clean in here (so all ages are welcome) but I'm looking forward to hearing more from you about Gargoyles :)
Stormy - [decepticoncommand@hotmail.com]
posted @ Sat, Jul 22, 2006 8:48:44 am EDT from 142.167.218.190

im new here but i alread read most of the comments in one night im just happy to see that ppl seee seem to like gargoyles i was olny about 4 when i irst saw it and have loved it ever since well anyway about this demona hair thing her hair cant get any more fucked up as it is and i have seen some of the pages oh the new comic and i hope they make them look alil more like they looked in the show
sho-sho - [bigmon15@verizon.net]
posted @ Sat, Jul 22, 2006 8:33:49 am EDT from 71.125.192.70

Woohf, those are ALL good ones. I look forward to seeing what those who haven't weighed in yet have to add, too. Thank you guys, I really appreciate the contributions. : )

and...doesn't Demona *already have* anime hair? *ducks out of the way of any potential tomotoes and eggs that may be lobbed in her direction*
Lynati
"no wait, it was *angry* hair! *angry* hair!!" ; )
posted @ Sat, Jul 22, 2006 5:55:58 am EDT from 70.243.64.38

Stormy: <<WHIT--Is a twit. Quarrymen rule :)>>

LOL! And you're the only one who can say that to him and not be accused of starting a flame war. ;)
Leo
posted @ Sat, Jul 22, 2006 12:37:37 am EDT from 68.107.154.71

HoE> Thank you for bringing up Angela's line there. She can be vengeful.

"The ones who attacked you will suffer. I'll see to that."
"We both will."

I wonder if there is some more Demona in her than we think
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"They spent so much time looking at Janet Jackson's tit, I actually thought Osama bin Laden was hiding in it." - Lewis Black
posted @ Fri, Jul 21, 2006 11:24:14 pm EDT from 68.199.4.45

Well, Greg B already mentioned the two scenes from "City of Stone" that I was going to. Both of the Demona scenes that he mentioned were, I always thought, brilliantly executed.

Another scene I always liked was that little scene between Xanatos and his father on the battlements in "The Gathering, Part Two." Given what we did know about Petros and his son, I found it very touching.

Also, the conversation between Hudson and Robbins in "A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time" was very enjoyable. Especially since it seemed like Greg and Company were acknowledging what they were doing. Right after Robbins tells Hudson that it isn't shameful to be illiterate, it's only a shame to stay that way, Hudson notices that the sun is rising and says he has to go. To which Robbins replies, "now I've run you off with my preaching." Also, Paul Winfield's speech at the end of the episode was very moving.

Another moment in "Hunter's Moon" that chilled me was when Angela echoed Goliath's desire for vengeance at the beginning of Part Two. Brigitte Bako's reading of the line "we both will" still gives me goosebumps.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"We'll take the chair-lift. It will give us an eagle-eye view of the area directly below the chair-lift."
posted @ Fri, Jul 21, 2006 11:21:13 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

To be honest, I cried when I saw Elisa fall into the water and Goliath was yelling her name. And then I just remember waiting all day in school wondering what would happen!
And as for the kiss, I cheered as my brother rolled his eyes.. I cant tell you how many times I rewound the tape (as I recorded each day)
good times :)
faytefire - [dragondreamer@comcast.net]
posted @ Fri, Jul 21, 2006 9:04:09 pm EDT from 71.234.169.135

Can you edit posts?
Berl_Odoikalbylno Daedalus
posted @ Fri, Jul 21, 2006 8:28:33 pm EDT from 142.177.181.1

I agree with Todd, also when the Fortess 1(?) hits the water and as people are jumping out it explodes.
Berl_Odoikalbylno Daedalus - [jeffreycrowell403@msn.com]
*explosion* (temporary)
posted @ Fri, Jul 21, 2006 8:20:05 pm EDT from 142.177.181.1

Sevarius's "death" in "Metamorphosis" definitely startled me, the first time that I saw it. I was thinking "They actually killed somebody in a Disney cartoon - in the present-day section of it?" (Of course, it turned out that Sevarius was just faking, but it still definitely raised my eyebrows.)
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Fri, Jul 21, 2006 6:56:31 pm EDT from 4.245.16.137

*Tries to imagine Demona with big stupid Yu Gi Oh hair*
....EEEWWWWWWWWWwwwww
Thank goodness Greg W. declined that idea
Seriously-Gargoyles has its own unique style...I'm so sick of anime taking over everything.

As for most emotional gargoyle moments:
I remember being shaken after watching "Future Tense" for the first time-all the horrible twists and turns-very powerful-especially Broadway's death.

The scene in Hunter's Moon 3 when Elisa falls off the dam and Goliath screams her name-it always gets me-

and of course, The Kiss, at the end of that episode-I think I literally stood up and cheered when I first saw it :)
Purplegoldfish - [Skydragonn@aol.com]
I can't think of a signature
posted @ Fri, Jul 21, 2006 6:17:21 pm EDT from 152.163.100.14

The Magus dying on camera was the only time a show in the "Disney Afternoon" lineup ever made me weepy.

Demona with anime hair? :: as Will Smith :: "Aw, HELL no!"

In the grand scheme of villain groups, I'm ranking Castaway and the Quarrymen only half a step above Shredder and the Foot. And I'm talking bottom rung, here. Top of the ladder is groups like S.P.E.C.T.R.E. and the Illuminati.

336 days until The Gathering 2007 in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2007]
"Guns don't kill people. Chuck Norris kills people."
posted @ Fri, Jul 21, 2006 5:37:59 pm EDT from 70.229.195.170

Lynati--When "Metamorphosis" ended with Elisa in tears, Derek and co. still mutates, and the mutates still suspicious of the gargoyles. That was the moment I realized this was a very different kind of cartoon show.

WHIT--Is a twit. Quarrymen rule :)
Stormy - [decepticoncommand@hotmail.com]
posted @ Fri, Jul 21, 2006 3:53:55 pm EDT from 142.167.201.58

Kythera of Anevern> Yeah I completely agree with you. When Goliath first appeared in "Awakening Part 1," I thought he was so amazing, cool, and impressive. All I though was "whoa."

Lynati> I think that's a really big contrast to the first impression I got of Demona. When she appears out of the darkness and says to Hakon "Face me human if you dare," and then does her signature growl, she seems so menacing and threatening.

Oh I almost forgot to mention something else. How many of you gasped or were somewhat taken back when Xanatos says "Pay a man enough and he'll walk barefooted to hell." I know I was.
Mayelin - [dulcemiel83@aim.com]
Mayelin Gonzalez
posted @ Fri, Jul 21, 2006 12:52:34 pm EDT from 67.83.33.17

I guess my jaw dropped when New Gargoyles were introduced, especially when Goliath sees the "eggs" for the first time on Avalon.

Or when Brooklyn says "A Mid Summer Night's Dream."
Battle Beast - [Canada]
that is all I will say.
posted @ Fri, Jul 21, 2006 11:48:14 am EDT from 198.53.28.99

Gorram it, how many times do I have to delete "New Art" before it stays gone? ;P

Anyway... Lynati!

Some of my favorites have been mentioned, but I've gotta say... the scene in Awakenings 1 where we first see Goliath wake up. From the moment the sun dips below the horizon, to the moment when Goliath catches Hakon's sword. That's a helluva way to make a first impression!
Kythera of Anevern
I do not suffer fools, gladly or otherwise.
posted @ Fri, Jul 21, 2006 11:16:42 am EDT from 69.244.247.43

LYNATI> Hmmm.

Demona's "What have I... what have THEY done to you."
For that matter, Jon Canmore's moment eching that very same scene.

"The access code is... Alone"

Xanatos threatening to fire Owen, if Owen pretended to lose their sparrind session. Summed up how different he was from other villans.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"They spent so much time looking at Janet Jackson's tit, I actually thought Osama bin Laden was hiding in it." - Lewis Black
posted @ Fri, Jul 21, 2006 11:02:02 am EDT from 68.199.4.45

Lynati>

The part in the episode "Future Tense" when Broadway dies always disturbs me. It really upsets me every time I watch it. It's so sad :0(

Another moment in the original series that gives me a strong reaction is at the end of "Hunter's Moon Part 1." This is when Goliath says that he's going to kill the hunters. I was so surprised and sorta worried to hear him say that! He wanted revenge. In that moment he was beginning to think just like Demona (a really, really scary thing). It felt to me like I was watching "Awakening Part 1" again, when the gargoyles were new to me and they still had what Greg calls the "edge of danger."
Mayelin - [dulcemiel83@aim.com]
posted @ Fri, Jul 21, 2006 10:30:57 am EDT from 67.83.33.17

Lynati: I'll compile a few more later, but right now, I'll say that Charles Canmore's death at the beginning of "Hunter's Moon, Part 3" really jumped out at me. The angle it was done from, and the fact that we actually have a sound effect of his body hitting the ground, had me thinking, "wait, this is still a Disney cartoon, right?"
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"We'll take the chair-lift. It will give us an eagle-eye view of the area directly below the chair-lift."
posted @ Fri, Jul 21, 2006 6:57:41 am EDT from 69.174.3.196

Sooo...I'm conducting something of a poll, on the forums and through my LJ, if I might slip it in amongst the rest of the chat and entertaining visuals. ; )

What do you think were the best/most memorable/most definitive moments (moments, not episodes) of the original show? What sticks out in your mind...made you gasp, cry, or otherwise dropped your jaw?

Some of my picks are Brooklyn's "I was a fool to trust you!" scene in Temptation (and the visual right after his motorcycle blows up), Lex's "All gone bye-bye...sorry about that," as his chair turns in Future Tense, and the Magus's death scene on Avalon.

How about the rest of you?
Lynati
posted @ Fri, Jul 21, 2006 3:13:52 am EDT from 70.243.64.38

O_O

Makhasu-- ...ANIME hair? Hedgecock wanted to give Demona *anime hair?*

...I have nothing kind to say about Hedgecock in regard to that. Jesus H. Christ spreadeagle in a Speedo on a Chrystler... **Weeps**
Kythera of Anevern - [<-- New Art]
I do not suffer fools, gladly or otherwise.
posted @ Fri, Jul 21, 2006 1:13:18 am EDT from 69.244.247.43

Just popping in briefly. I'll respond to all the posts I need to get to once the Comic-Con is over. Sorry.

Anyway, obviously, I was there. It's incredibly awesome; 615,000 sq. feet of events and merchandise. I grabbed a sketch of Demona from David Hedgecock. He said that he'd been asking Greg if he could do Demona with spiky anime hair, but that Greg had told him no. I was pretty happy that Greg hadn't allowed that. Granted, Demona already HAS spiky hair, but not quite as extreme and unhairlike (not a word, I know) as Pokemon, Dragon Ball, or other animes.

Later, folks.
Makhasu - [aknellthatsummonsthee@yahoo.com]
Shave my chest and call me baldy!
posted @ Fri, Jul 21, 2006 1:07:11 am EDT from 66.74.220.146

Christine: I hope you read this becuase I'm an idiot and I lost your email address...
I received my Grimorum Anthologoy-Thank you very much! It looks fantastic! I also wasn't expecting to get a signed copy so I was pleasantly surprised. Everyone did a great job! (and sorry about the whole mail mishap)
Purplegoldfish - [Skydragonn@aol.com]
posted @ Thu, Jul 20, 2006 9:55:23 pm EDT from 152.163.100.14

ED - Actually, that hypothetical line addressed to Quarrymen about joining the Gargoyle Task Force if they wanted to fight the gargoyles was based on a similar line in "Batman: TAS" when the new D.A. in Gotham City (Harvey Dent's successor) shouted to Batman that if he wanted to fight crime, he should join the Gotham City police.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Thu, Jul 20, 2006 8:28:39 pm EDT from 4.244.209.139

I had ordered the Gargoyles comic from slave labor on july 6th(and got the comfirmation the same day)and I'm still waiting. Hopefully it'll come this week.I'd looked for the comic at my local comicnook store and they didn't have it.It's the only reason why I'm being patient.
kjay - [tigonesskay@yahoo.com]
posted @ Thu, Jul 20, 2006 8:12:44 pm EDT from 69.112.127.60

Harvester: I wouldn't really know. I was bored out of my brain during 'Clones' and still haven't seen the last one. I only really have strong memories of the original trilogy -- which I think conveys the pathos of Anakin's story quite effectively on its own.

Todd: I assumed the Gargoyles Task Force was an internal police matter, not an open club. And I would think it's not specifically pro-gargoyle so much as charged with 'investigating'. It would definitely be sensible to open up a public awareness group to 'spread the word' about the good the gargoyles do, but this would be very difficult. (1) Most of the people who would do this (Elisa, Matt, Xanatos, etc.) have close ties to the gargoyles and would compromise their location, as well as potentially harming their careers; (2) anyone else who might want to stick up for the gargoyles (e.g. Vinnie) would be likely to experience a lot of grief from violent organisations like the Quarrymen, as well as the press and the rest of society. I guess the only person who wouldn't have this problem is Macbeth -- making him potentially a very useful ally. As for Margot, I'd like to think she'd feel as uncomfortable with the idea of violent mobs assembling as with the gargoyles themselves.

Whitborne: "The Journey" showed us the spectrum of reactions from people -- bemusement, fear, curiosity, caution, criticism, anger. Within the ranks of the Quarrymen we already have (1) a charismatic madman hellbent on vengeance, (2) a concerned mother whose kids got away from the gargoyles by the skin of their teeth (as she sees it), (3) a good person uncomfortable with Castaway, and who ultimately turns against him, and (4) a pair of mercenaries, one matter-of-fact, one a little more sadistic. These are, to my recollection, the ONLY five Quarrymen to respond with anything more than a "yes" to Castaway's speech, and they ALL represent a different point of view. How is that monolithic? And also, while most people would not turn to violent demagogues, plenty of people do. Fascists, religious nuts, terrorist leaders, communist leaders, jihadists, environmental terrorists, cultists etc. etc. etc. And besides, how is it representing the majority of humanity? To even represent the majority of NYC, you'd be talking upward of 4 million Quarrymen; Castaway had managed maybe a few dozen. We've also heard from the Jogger, Margot, Chavez, Art (who takes direct action when attacked but hasn't yet joined a mob) and the people who know the gargoyles such as Macbeth, Matt and Elisa.
Ed
posted @ Thu, Jul 20, 2006 8:06:27 pm EDT from 213.187.39.126

Keep in mind that this is still just a couple of days after the events in "Hunter's Moon", that the public is still reeling from the revelation that the gargoyles exist (not to mention that the gargoyles were revealed in an especially violent and alarming manner that would make them look dangerous and hostile), that the human race has been trained by its own legends, myths, fairy tales, etc. to view anything with batlike wings, fangs, clawed hands and feet, and a tendency to be far weaker in the daytime than at night as innately evil, and that humans also have a tendency to give in to "mob-mentality" all too easily. It's going to take a while before things will have calmed down enough for people to start viewing gargoyles as a tourist attraction rather than as a menace to the human race.

I believe that there's a line in one of the "Men in Black" movies about how individual persons are reasonable and understanding, while people are easily panicked and xenophobic.

(I still sometimes wonder also if the gargoyles are being used as a scapegoat for all the weirdness of the past two years - weird explosions, robot parts falling out of the sky, missing nights, etc. Kind of like how persecution of the Jews shot up whenever the Black Death hit Europe.)
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Thu, Jul 20, 2006 7:16:31 pm EDT from 4.244.209.139

WHIT> Um, you're making that judgement based on one story? Greg has said many times the oreganization is not monolithic. Now, in TGC, they were and very, very poorly written. Just like everything else in that series.

"quite clearly be shown NOT to represent the feelings of the majority of humanity"

When were they shown to represent the feelings of the majority of humanity?

"I find it really, really hard to believe that no one in the Gargoyles version of new York is charging out-of-towners a few bucks to go driving around at night on a Gargoyles-watching tour."

Who said they weren't?

We've only ever seen one Quarrymen story. We've only ever seen, one post-Hunter's Moon story.

Give it time.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"They spent so much time looking at Janet Jackson's tit, I actually thought Osama bin Laden was hiding in it." - Lewis Black
posted @ Thu, Jul 20, 2006 6:03:38 pm EDT from 68.199.4.45

Greg> Eh, I'd like him a lot more if he didn't have the Quarrymen backing him. I hate, hate, hate, hate, hate the Quarrymen as a narrative device (seems to me I've been on this rant before) because honestly, the idea of an armed anti-gargoyle vigilante group bores me so completely that I honestly enjoy anything with them less for having them around. Castaway, i guess, is just a lightning rod for being the visible face of a storyline that I viscerally dislike.

Now, if his Quarrymen were a lot LESS monolithic, a lot less organized, not backed by huge financial backers, quite clearly be shown NOT to represent the feelings of the majority of humanity, then I'd be a lot more interested. The Quarrymen only work for me as long as there's a recognition that human nature is such that a lot of people would be curious or intrigued enough to want to a) protect the gargoyles, b) let them be, or c) make money off them.

I find it really, really hard to believe that no one in the Gargoyles version of new York is charging out-of-towners a few bucks to go driving around at night on a Gargoyles-watching tour.
Whitbourne
posted @ Thu, Jul 20, 2006 5:57:02 pm EDT from 142.167.207.160

Patrick >> "O.J. Simpson nearly went broke beating the rap in the criminal case, but he still ended up losing the civil case. The burden of proof to hold someone liable in a civil suit is a lot lower than it is to win a criminal conviction."

It doesn't matter. If Xanatos and Demona can continue to operate in their brazenly illegal fashion globally, I don't think Enron and MCI Worldcom collapsing imply that their companies can't survive.

"Castaway is making a gigantic mistake in allowing all comers to join the ranks of his Quarryman organization. Some of these "concerned citizens" are going to lack the skill to handle the equipment without injuring themselves."

They volunteered and were likely given instruction or disclaimer. They can go into Wal-Mart and buy a chain saw or a sledgehammer, but can't win a liability case if they take off some fingers with it.

"Others are going to have big mouths and brag about their exploits, which will end up bringing down the heat before too long."

Like I said, the police might catch small-fries. They won't catch Castaway anything short of red-handed.

"Then there's the matter of law enforcement infiltrating the group."

That's certainly possible, but I think Castaway is likely savvy about who he lets come along with him personally to get involved with anything he could be prosecuted for.

"If anyone can show up at a meeting and join Castaway's fruity little club, then an undercover police officer or federal agent isn't going to have any problem."

The problem is that most of the stuff Castaway does publically is quasi-legal, and the stuff he does that is brazenly illegal is either handled by proxy or is removed from those he doesn't keep in confidence. I'm going to assume he takes whatever steps Xanatos and Demona take to avoid getting caught by simple spying techniques.

The odds on someone actually getting enough evidence that John Castaway did a particular criminal act rather than Random Other Guy are going to be slim if he plays his cards right - especially considering Castaway is a fabricated identity.

Is that pure realism? Of course not. Like I've noted, Nightstone Ltd. and Xanatos Enterprises aren't realistic either. The Quarrymen just doesn't stretch my suspension of disbelief any further than the rest of the Gargoyles universe does.
Marty "Kaioto" Lund - [creaturecomics@comcast.net]
posted @ Thu, Jul 20, 2006 2:51:58 pm EDT from 198.187.200.254

Well, I finally broke down. I got tired of waiting for the company I had placed my order for the comic with via paypal(having emailed them after they promised they'd have the comic in) and I ordered the comic directly from Slave Labor today. *takes deep breath* hopefully they(3 copies) won't take too long to get here. Hope they package them well. I've officially waited long enough-bring on the Gargs!
Wingless
posted @ Thu, Jul 20, 2006 2:51:48 pm EDT from 74.105.128.170

And now look what you've done, made me go and make a post ;P

Patrick-.... I had to take a looooong look at that last post man. There are some real noobish comments in there. Concerns on whether citizens can handle the thing and not hurt themselves? Dude, there is a renagade boob fairy running around increasing bust sizes in the middle of the night and you are concerned about people hurting themselves with hammers?
Maybe because we have now lived through the CSI generation I suppose we all expect more believabilty to our fiction than we did when we could have Bruce Willis and a mullet sporting Mel Gibson just run around flashing badges and shooting up bad guys with no harm no foul.
But seriously, everyone, you really can't sweat the small stuff, just say, "It was in the script" and let it slide.
Revel
There is a line called Obsession and you are tap dancing on a landmine
posted @ Thu, Jul 20, 2006 2:02:43 pm EDT from 70.185.5.174

and fixed the link
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"They spent so much time looking at Janet Jackson's tit, I actually thought Osama bin Laden was hiding in it." - Lewis Black
posted @ Thu, Jul 20, 2006 1:42:52 pm EDT from 68.199.4.45

I got the impression that, in "The Journey", the people at Castaway's meeting were invited. I doubt he put an ad in the New York Times.

As for the rest. Remember, Castaway's club is being backed by the Illuminati. I am sure they can keep the heat off Castaway, as he is useful for whatever their larger agenda regarding the gargoyles is.

Also, Castaway has hired mercenaries, people who would know how to handle equipment like that. I am sure there is some training.

Again, this is all speculation. Greg will probably explain how the Quarrymen work a lot better in future issues of the comic.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"They spent so much time looking at Janet Jackson's tit, I actually thought Osama bin Laden was hiding in it." - Lewis Black
posted @ Thu, Jul 20, 2006 1:42:09 pm EDT from 68.199.4.45

O.J. Simpson nearly went broke beating the rap in the criminal case, but he still ended up losing the civil case. The burden of proof to hold someone liable in a civil suit is a lot lower than it is to win a criminal conviction.

Castaway is making a gigantic mistake in allowing all comers to join the ranks of his Quarryman organization. Some of these "concerned citizens" are going to lack the skill to handle the equipment without injuring themselves. Others are going to have big mouths and brag about their exploits, which will end up bringing down the heat before too long. Then there's the matter of law enforcement infiltrating the group. If anyone can show up at a meeting and join Castaway's fruity little club, then an undercover police officer or federal agent isn't going to have any problem. And yes, I think the NYPD would be smart enough to assign someone other than Elisa or Matt to that job. Having Elisa undercover with the Quarrymen in that one TGC episode was one of the most idiotic things I'd ever seen.

Greg B. > Might want to adjust the odometer on your Gathering link.

337 days until The Gathering 2007 in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2007]
posted @ Thu, Jul 20, 2006 12:52:26 pm EDT from 24.106.128.24

Of course, the gargoyles aren't recognized by human law, so it raises the question whether they count as vigilantes in the same way that the humans who make up the Quarrymen do. (Though, once the authorities finally realize that the gargoyles are intelligent beings rather than savage beasts, I expect that they'll want to start addressing the issue.)

I still think, though, that it'd be neat if there were anti-gargoyle people out there who still oppose the Quarrymen with an attitude of "If you want to do something about those creatures, throw away those hoods and hammers and join the Gargoyle Task Force!" It would add some extra complexity to the conflict. I wonder where Margot would stand on the issue. Even if she secretly approves of them, I doubt that she'd openly support them, or at least their "direct confrontation" activities (as an Assistant D.A., she obviously can't be seen tolerating private citizens taking the law into their own hands).

Of course, the parallel to law-abiding citizens in Gotham City disapproving of Batman's vigilante status would be appropriate, given that the Hunters were clearly designed as a twisted version of Batman (the double identity, the combination of good equipment with well-honed skills, and - in the Canmores' case - the motivation of seeing a parent or parents killed in front of them in childhood). Of course, if Batman were to use the sort of tactics that the Hunters/Quarrymen use, he'd be given a one-way ticket to Arkham Asylum in a hurry....
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Thu, Jul 20, 2006 8:25:35 am EDT from 4.244.209.97

Ed: Too bad as far as Vader was concerned, one of the elements for a successful tragedy was missing, in that I had no emotional stock invested in the character at all. Anakin was just extraordinarily retarded, and his reason for turning to the dark side was one of the biggest letdowns ever.

Todd: I think having Dracon say on tape that he's the boss of the Protection Racket would be hard to defend, even with the excellent lawyers that high ranking criminals are able to afford. The first time, I can see Dracon's lawyers getting him off on circumstantial evidence. As for how he'd get around kidnapping two cops, there are people here who know law better than I do, but I think she recently shifted her CR status to lurking. So unless someone else has a theory, I don't.

It's also funny you should mention the Batman series. As far as villains are concerned, that's another show that managed to have some diverse badguys, ranging from complex and multi-layered (Two Face, R'ahs Al'Ghul or Mr. Freeze) to villains that are just evil for evil's sake (the Joker or Killer Croc). Both were for the most part equally well-written, except for the Clock King. I always thought he had the dumbest vendetta in the series.

Bishansky: I'm sure Xanatos thought of something. He always does. ( ;
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Is anybody alive in here? Is anybody at all in here? Nobody but us in here. Nobody but us..." -The Police ("Synchronicity")
posted @ Thu, Jul 20, 2006 6:42:35 am EDT from 69.174.3.196

No more than parts of 'Babylon 5' owe to 'Lord of the Rings'; or the early more corporate conception of Xanatos owed to Lex Luthor; or 'Star Wars' itself owed to serials like Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers. Vader may have started life as "Dr Doom-like character" on the page but he evolved into a quite different character from his progenitor on the stage.
Ed
posted @ Thu, Jul 20, 2006 6:02:32 am EDT from 213.187.39.126

Darth Vader is iconic... for a Dr. Doom rip-off.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"They spent so much time looking at Janet Jackson's tit, I actually thought Osama bin Laden was hiding in it." - Lewis Black
posted @ Wed, Jul 19, 2006 11:30:53 pm EDT from 68.199.4.45

I think Greg is pretty much unparalleled at great villains. Shows, movies, book series... sometimes you'll see one great villain. Or great monsters (e.g. the Daleks and Cybermen in 'Doctor Who'), or an iconic 'baddie' (Darth Vader or Jabba the Hutt). But for real villains, complex and layered and interesting antagonists, I can't think of anybody who can hold a candle to Demona or Xanatos.

Kaioto: I agree entirely. Plus, all this stuff would take years to resolve -- and that's years in which the Quarrymen organisation can grow from a centralised entity to a communicable idea. Once people start their own Quarrymen groupings and the idea itself becomes contagious, it's essentially impossible to stop.

Todd: Ironically, the gargoyles themselves are essentially vigilantes so they can hardly criticise the Quarrymen on that front (not without giving away their links to the NYPD anyway!). And like the Quarrymen, they protect the streets, often from 'monsters' (literal and otherwise). In that respect, Castaway's 'klan' are a great foil for Goliath's clan.
Ed
posted @ Wed, Jul 19, 2006 7:59:13 pm EDT from 213.187.39.126

Thanks Christine! I don't know if my mailing got to you in time for the Gathering...if not, maybe you can hang onto those stickers and I can try to make it 4 anthologies in a row :)
Stormy - [decepticoncommand@hotmail.com]
posted @ Wed, Jul 19, 2006 7:55:19 pm EDT from 142.167.220.54

BISHANSKY - Elisa explains the Dracon issue in "Protection" - good lawyers and a lot of influence (maybe even some Illuminati patronage, in light of the bit in "Revelations" about their being in cahoots with organized crime), though obviously, Tony's resources must have dried up between "Protection" and "Turf".

Vandalism issues aside, I still think that the Quarrymen could face a certain amount of police scrutiny on the vigilantism issue; these guys are going after the gargoyles personally rather than leaving that sort of thing to the Gargoyle Task Force. (Though Art opening fire on Goliath would be seen as self-defense rather than vigilantism.) In fact, I wouldn't be too surprised if there'd be many people in law enforcement or local government who are anything but keen on gargoyles, but who also disapprove of the Quarrymen on this issue (kind of like how in the various animated Batman series, there are people in Gotham City who are law-abiding citizens - some even in the police force - who oppose Batman on the grounds that he's a vigilante). Which suggests that Castaway will want to publicly play down the hammers as well as the hoods as much as possible....
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Wed, Jul 19, 2006 7:13:21 pm EDT from 4.244.18.77

Patrick >> I'd love to believe you, especially having watched so much Law and Order and CSI - but then I remember that O.J. Simpson trial.

Crimes like vandalism and B&E are often pinned on people because they are sloppy, have bad lawyers, no viable alibi, and are often intimidated into giving a confession.

Meanwhile we have numerous rapes, murders, robberies, and assaults that go to cold cases every day.

Add to that the problem of telling one Quarryman from another and the police are hosed. You can't charge ALL of them, and you can't pick out the individuals. If they are smart, they don't keep any sort of role-call for volunteers nor ledgers for any of the muscle they hire.

You can probably pick off volunteers here and their, but Castaway is pretty much beyond conventional criminal justice's reach - being a Comic Book Villain and all.
Marty "Kaioto" Lund - [creaturecomics@comcast.net]
posted @ Wed, Jul 19, 2006 6:47:05 pm EDT from 198.187.200.254

One more note.

Shouldn't Xanatos be in prison for the events of "The Edge"? I mean, certainly after Awakening, there was a search warrant for the castle. Bits of Steel Clan could have easily been found. In that case, the remains of the Steel Clan at the Statue of Liberty should have been easy to trace back to Xanatos.

It's a work of fiction, and if we want to get all nitpicky CSI on it, well then, what's the point.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"They spent so much time looking at Janet Jackson's tit, I actually thought Osama bin Laden was hiding in it." - Lewis Black
posted @ Wed, Jul 19, 2006 6:45:28 pm EDT from 68.199.4.45

And this is where we accept on faith that this is a work of fiction.

I mean, shouldn't they have had evidence to convict Tony Dracon well before "Protection". I mean, he kidnapped TWO cops.

Whit> Out of curiosity, how did you feel about Jon in "Hunter's Moon"? Because, I agree with you completely on Jon in TGC. Horrible character. But, I'm not holding his characterization there (or lack of it) against the character in the comic now. With Greg at the helm, I am certain he'll be a much better character than he was in TGC.

Let's look at some of the key villains of the series.

Demona, Xanatos, Macbeth, Thailog, The Weird Sisters, The Pack, The Archmage. Etc, etc.

"Gargoyles" always had a great Rogues Gallery. In my opinion, easily on par with Batman's. Hell, better than Batman's. If Greg was able to create great, fun, memorable villains like the ones listed above, I am certain that John Castaway, written correctly, can eventually be counted among them.

Let's just ignore and forget that stupid TGC business.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"They spent so much time looking at Janet Jackson's tit, I actually thought Osama bin Laden was hiding in it." - Lewis Black
posted @ Wed, Jul 19, 2006 6:41:58 pm EDT from 68.199.4.45

There's lots of ways to link a person to a crime without having an eyewitness who saw their face. Crimes such as vandalism, breaking and entering, and destruction of property rarely have eyewitnesses. Bank robbers and muggers often wear masks. That's why the police have a forensics team. Wearing a goofy hood is no defense against leaving trace evidence behind.

338 days until The Gathering 2007 in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2007]
"There is always a clue." - Gil Grissom, "C.S.I."
posted @ Wed, Jul 19, 2006 6:21:47 pm EDT from 70.229.201.96

I envision Castaway getting shot, too, and then I get this hypothetical wave of relief, accompanied by a thought of "thank god that character's finally gone."

I'm biased, of course. The storyline I'd most like to see would be one where John Castaway/Canmore/whoever has an unfortunate stroke while using the bathroom, and six months later someone asks "hey, whatever happened to what's-his-face"?

The reply, of course, would be a shrug, followed by "so what did you think if the game last night?"

Ah, a fan can dream.
Whitbourne
posted @ Wed, Jul 19, 2006 6:02:11 pm EDT from 142.167.220.54

The hoods still have good effect - making it hard to know exactly who is doing what. Plausible deniability makes Castaway a hard nut to crack. Unless someone ~ sees ~ him destroying someone else's property, they can't do much to him. Sure, the police could try to charge him with inciting a riot or criminal activity, but that would bring a counter charge of violating freedoms of assembly and speech.

Hammers aren't illegal. Vandalism is. Unless someone can place Castaway as the one conducting vandalism he can always blame it on a fringe element or imposters. I'm also sure that if ever someone were to claim that Castaway was at the scene of a crime, he has a half-dozen people willing to lie to cover for him.
Marty "Kaioto" Lund - [creaturecomics@comcast.net]
posted @ Wed, Jul 19, 2006 1:44:28 pm EDT from 198.187.200.254

It's come to my attention that I goofed up my tallying of those who'd contributed to all three anthologies! Stormy should also have received the Archmage Award for making all three. I am so sorry for the blunder! I thought I had re-checked carefully, and I blew it.

Stormy, if you see this, deepest apologies for the oversight! I will correct my con journal and get your certificate sent out soon!
Christine
posted @ Wed, Jul 19, 2006 8:33:38 am EDT from 70.56.94.10

DPH - I honestly don't remember. I was focusing more on the tally than on memorizing what specific people had submitted Gathering Reports.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Wed, Jul 19, 2006 7:31:04 am EDT from 4.244.213.28

For those of you who don't care, I submitted my Saturday's Gathering Journal. That's the last of the ones I had written. What happenned Sunday or rather one event on Sunday is a mystery to me.

Todd - <Todd informs me that only 13 people have posted conjournals at ASK GREG> were the 2 parts of my gathering journal including me in the count of those 13 people?
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Wed, Jul 19, 2006 1:32:30 am EDT from 63.232.249.37

I can't remember if there were any smashings actually shown, but I'd say it's pretty safe to assume that they HAVE smashed some. As for the hoods, I would think that sooner or later, one of the Q-men would run into an owner of property with statues on it that would be more than capable of taking out the attacker--especially considering that one of their favorite modes of attack is via helicopter, not the most stealthy method of approach. And since the rank and file of the Q-men are ordinary citizens, from what we've seen, a little pressure put on them would result in some names.

Actually, I envision Castaway getting shot by someone who just spent tens of thousands of dollars acquiring a statue that he's about to, or just did, smash.
Blaqthourne & Crimson Fury
posted @ Wed, Jul 19, 2006 12:58:21 am EDT from 4.230.132.132

B&CF> Depends. Have they actually smashed any statues yet?

Also. They are wearing hoods. Makes it hard to identify who did it, exactly.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"They spent so much time looking at Janet Jackson's tit, I actually thought Osama bin Laden was hiding in it." - Lewis Black
posted @ Wed, Jul 19, 2006 12:33:56 am EDT from 68.199.4.45

Bar Harbor, ME is in the news! Anyone else hear about the "half-cooked" lobster being kept in the oceanarium there? http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/07/14/D8IS3ERG0.html

My thoughts on the Quarrymen going around smashing gargoyle statues: So when do the lawsuits against the members for destruction of property start?
Blaqthourne & Crimson Fury
posted @ Wed, Jul 19, 2006 12:27:12 am EDT from 4.230.132.132

*Eyes Jason aka Bonkers*

In case you're wondering, the CR logs IPs. We are not a chat room.
Learn to contribute.
Chameleongirl
posted @ Tue, Jul 18, 2006 9:46:09 pm EDT from 210.15.242.68

Grey enjoy twilight >:P
Jason vorhees
posted @ Tue, Jul 18, 2006 9:06:23 pm EDT from 68.55.175.94

New revelation at "Ask Greg" today: in early versions of "Hunter's Moon", the tablet with the Fulfillment Spell on it that Demona stole in Renaissance Italy originally belonged to the Borgias rather than to the Medicis.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Tue, Jul 18, 2006 7:42:59 pm EDT from 4.244.18.125

Whoops. Misread your post.

Yeah, I am sure we will eventually see Jason find out what his brother is up too. Robyn too.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"They spent so much time looking at Janet Jackson's tit, I actually thought Osama bin Laden was hiding in it." - Lewis Black
posted @ Tue, Jul 18, 2006 7:03:27 pm EDT from 68.199.4.45

HoE> If there is a next meeting. Vinnie is off to Japan.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"They spent so much time looking at Janet Jackson's tit, I actually thought Osama bin Laden was hiding in it." - Lewis Black
posted @ Tue, Jul 18, 2006 6:50:08 pm EDT from 68.199.4.45

Greg B and Ed: I just hope we never see John Castaway shouting, "please won't someone think of the children?!" at one of his rallies.

I just noticed something on my most recent viewing of "The Journey." I think there's a subconscious reason Castaway was upset with Vinnie's actions in the third act. Vinnie, unlike Castaway, possessed both the ability to see that something was not right and the courage to stand by that conviction, and take action. This has gotten me a bit more curious as to what the next meeting between Jon and Jason will be like.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -Douglas Adams.
posted @ Tue, Jul 18, 2006 6:38:53 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

That's very true about gargoyle inspiring fear on first contact with people. In fact how would Elisa have reacted if she hadn't fallen off the edge of the Eyrie allowing Goliath the oppurtunity to save her life? Elisa would have run away just like everyone else.
Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]
Remember the old Gargoyles comics!
posted @ Tue, Jul 18, 2006 5:32:40 pm EDT from 69.54.209.37

Good points. Keep in mind, from the POVs of the the people who joined the Quarrymen, all of a sudden, out of nowhere, these demonic looking creatures appear out of the raging inferno of a police station blowing up.

No one knows what a gargoyle is, but some are big, have huge wing, glowing eyes, fangs and claws. And so far, every where they've been spotted, bad things were happening.

Hell, Sarah came out and said she's afraid for her kids. I'm sure she's not the only one who feels that way.

As for Castaway being able to hook these people. I believe it. Look at how many people, to this day, continue to flock to those who say they can protect them from 'the other'. And, in this case, 'the other' isn't a human minority group. It's, god knows how many, dangerous beasts who may be demons from Hell for all anyone knows.

The culture of fear. It always works. Besides, so far, we've only ever seen one post-Hunter's Moon story. Come issue 3, after a decade, we'll see more of the aftermath.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"They spent so much time looking at Janet Jackson's tit, I actually thought Osama bin Laden was hiding in it." - Lewis Black
posted @ Tue, Jul 18, 2006 3:20:33 pm EDT from 68.199.4.45

Greg: Wow. Instant gratifaction! Cool.

DPH: Cheers for the info. Good to know.

Patrick: I doubt almost any of the Quarrymen would recognise the descriptions 'minority group', 'terrorize a city' or 'bigoted'. That's a human frame of reference. They're talking about a apparently feral group of monsters. They have no reason to assume the gargoyles are intelligent; and even if they do make that assumption, the gargoyles are constantly linked to violence and carnage. Sure, there's KKK imagery, but I think that's for the audience's benefit. For the average Quarrymen, a hood is a simple, practical way to protect your identity when committing felonies (destroying property, possibly breaking and entering) in the name of the greater good. It obscures identities more thoroughly than balaclavas or hockey masks and fosters a sense of community and unity. Besides, even if people did feel uncomfortable at the KKK link... so what? People joined the KKK. People still are members of the KKK -- and fascist organisations, terrorist organisations and so on. My guess would be that if you trawled a city of 7 million you could easily find a couple of dozen people and a few mercenaries who could be persuaded to violent action if you marched the right demagogue in front of them. In a city that's a "tinderbox" with the resources of the Illuminati? Potentially, many more.
Ed
posted @ Tue, Jul 18, 2006 1:34:47 pm EDT from 213.187.39.126

San Diego COMIC CON MAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!

Anyone who is going want to help me promote gargoyles?
Shara - [jeanie54_2000@yahoo.com]
posted @ Tue, Jul 18, 2006 1:16:35 pm EDT from 4.246.126.99

Bigotted vigilantes who hide their identities behind hoods as they terrorize the city by night, seeking to either exterminate or drive out an entire minority group. Yeah, I don't know how I came up with a parallel to the K.K.K. from that. What was I thinking?

What is this "Eureka" show about? I've been less than impressed with most of the SciFi network's original productions. And Salli's still got a long way to go to claw her way off the B-list. She should've tried for a part in "Snakes on a Plane." She has experience in that arena.

Voice actor sighting (of sorts): Keith David is the voice of a new set of T.V. and radio ads for the Cleveland Metroparks Zoo.

339 days until The Gathering 2007 in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2007]
"Verbing words weirds language." - Calvin (of "Calvin & Hobbes")
posted @ Tue, Jul 18, 2006 12:39:36 pm EDT from 24.106.128.24

Oops, forgot to change my color...I'm on a different computer
Purplegoldfish
posted @ Tue, Jul 18, 2006 12:03:12 pm EDT from 216.45.246.169

Yay! I love Greg's rambles! I always learn something new from them-even if it's just a small thing.

One thing that I think is funny is that Greg revealed Billy and Susan's mom's name is Sarah. When it was brought up in here a few weeks ago about a group going to the Gathering dressed as the New York human characters, I thought I'de like to join in on it if I go...and that the only character on the show I remotely resemble is Billy and Susan's mom(except for the blonde hair) and my name is Sarah.

and I never realized that Elisa's "better than you know" line to Chavez was in reference to her and Goliath. I guess it was a subconcious statement.

I'm going to miss looking forward to the rambles when Greg's finished (perhaps he'll ramble on the new comic stories though?)
Purplegoldfish
posted @ Tue, Jul 18, 2006 12:01:16 pm EDT from 216.45.246.169

Heading off to San Diego later today for Comic-Con. Not sure if I'll be able to see Greg W. and a couple others who were planning to be there, but will try. And will try to keep up with the comment room. Laters!
Asatira
posted @ Tue, Jul 18, 2006 10:07:15 am EDT from 68.117.246.81

Can anyone tell me, when will W.I.T.C.H. season 2 go on Russian Jetix, cause i dont have any other chanals, showing W.I.T.C.H. and just want see season 2 very much
Shadow - [tom93@hot.ee]
posted @ Tue, Jul 18, 2006 9:03:26 am EDT from 80.235.37.56

*glances over the ramble*

Hmmm, I like how Greg made up a couple verbs in the CHANGE HAPPENS part. Unless those are real words. In which case, I'm retarded. I should have more to say on it later.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Do you think I've come this far just to let you stop me now?!" -Demona ("Temptation")
posted @ Tue, Jul 18, 2006 6:10:30 am EDT from 69.174.3.196

Sorry for the double post. Is anyone here gonna watch the series premiere of Eureka tonight on the SciFi channel. It stars Salli Richardson as 1 or the main character.
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
LEEEEEERRROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYY JEEEEEEEEEEEEENKIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINS is my idol!
posted @ Tue, Jul 18, 2006 2:10:39 am EDT from 69.234.3.227

Quarrymen hoods..i don't see how they resembled KKK hoods at all. They are not white, they don't point up and they aren't wearing those costumes. Don't know exactly how this was brought up. Anyway, I noticed something interesting on ImdB. When i was looking under Gargoyles, I looked at the genre portion of it and noticed that thriller was added to the group. I know for sure the last time I looked, that wasn't there. Plus, doesn't thriller also represent horror?
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
LEEEEEERRROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYY JEEEEEEEEEEEEENKIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINS is my idol!
posted @ Tue, Jul 18, 2006 1:55:56 am EDT from 69.234.3.227

Hey, long time, no see!

I don't know if this has been discussed before, but I had thought:

With the success of Avatar: The Last Airbender on Nick, which shares many similarities with Gargoyles, at least as far as story structure and character development is concerned, you think that maybe Disney may try to jump on the band wagon with Gargoyles? It's a long shot, but it definitely improves the odds,especially if the DVDs and comics continue to sell enough.
Gantros
posted @ Mon, Jul 17, 2006 10:32:07 pm EDT from 24.20.224.127

Ed - <And is it one lisence for the four Disney spin-offs or does 'Gargoyles' have its own deal?> At the gathering, the guy from SLG revealed that each Disney spin-off has its own license. So if Haunted Mansion or Tron doesn't work out, that has no effect on the license for Gargoyles.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Mon, Jul 17, 2006 8:48:56 pm EDT from 71.29.240.127

ED> Greg just revealed Billy and Susan's mom's name to be Sarah in the Hunter's Moon ramble he posted.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"They spent so much time looking at Janet Jackson's tit, I actually thought Osama bin Laden was hiding in it." - Lewis Black
posted @ Mon, Jul 17, 2006 7:14:16 pm EDT from 68.199.4.45

I utterly failed to notice the "pantie panels" until after I specifically went back and looked. If it was an attempt to capture the attention of the male reader I think they'll need to try harder. That said, the show has hardly been flesh shy. Check out that front cover again!

Siryn: Thanks. I hadn't known about the name update. The last I remembered, "Gregarino" was the "joke, unless nothing better comes along" name.

(Incidentally, does anyone know the name of Billy & Susan's mother?)

William: Great news on the sales front. Still, let's hope that when the initial hype cools, the numbers hold steady and grow.

Some things do occur to me though.

On the pessimistic track: how much is the lisence? And is it one lisence for the four Disney spin-offs or does 'Gargoyles' have its own deal? In other words, does the picture still look rosy when you factor in the higher overheads; and if its sister comics don't take off in the same way, will they pull 'Gargoyles' down as well?

And on the optimistic track: is it totally jinxing it to wonder what sort of numbers over what sort of period would get the comic into consideration for a spin-off...?
Ed
posted @ Mon, Jul 17, 2006 6:57:35 pm EDT from 213.187.39.126

PATRICK - To me, the Quarrymen hoods look more like executioners' hoods than Ku Klux Klan hoods. (They're a lot darker than KKK hoods are, and don't point straight up.)
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Mon, Jul 17, 2006 6:44:24 pm EDT from 4.244.18.134

Makhasu>

>>Another reason is that those shots and the breast enhancements make it seem like the staff doesn't think the story alone can sell the comics. Like Elisa isn't good enough on her own, without the occasional peek.

I really think you're reading a bit TOO into things. I mean, honestly, for the huge breasts I can honestly almost chalk that up to David's loose proportions. (Did you notice how huge Goliath's ear is in one panel? Or Brooklyn's head? etc etc) They're not that huge, and the breasts 'return to normal' in more of the other battle poses.

>>The second is when she kicks Banquo, and her dress goes up. That one was just pointless. Yeah, there's far worse out there, but still.... it's not something I expected from Gargoyles.

Looking at it right now. Both 'panty shots' aren't even what *I* would call a panty shot. And honestly, panty shots shown in fighting scenes go under my 'excuseable' category. Especially here, where you only see the hem of them anyways. Kicking the way she is in that dress with that pose, I think you're going to see a little, and honestly, I'd be more with you if EVERY single action scene was showing flashes of Elisa's underwear, but they're not. I don't think that either 'panty shot' is even worthy of the phrase panty shot. :) But maybe then again I watch too much anime and read too much comics and manga...or everyone here has corrupted my brain, one of the two. ^_^

Blaqthourne & Crimson Fury> Thankyou for clearing that up! ^_^ I didn't think he had been creditted originally. :)
Siryn - [siryn7@aol.com]
Vinnie Grigori's #1 fan!
posted @ Mon, Jul 17, 2006 5:49:57 pm EDT from 65.185.9.61

Oh hell, I meant Goliath. Hudson's the only one who DOES wear a, erm, "shirt" of sorts.
Stormy - [decepticoncommand@hotmail.com]
posted @ Mon, Jul 17, 2006 12:54:26 pm EDT from 142.167.201.80

Is it gratuitious the way the Trio and Hudson run around shirtless all the time? ;)

(Couldn't resist).
Stormy - [decepticoncommand@hotmail.com]
posted @ Mon, Jul 17, 2006 12:53:55 pm EDT from 142.167.201.80

It still strikes me as odd that no one in Castway's audience gives pause at the fact that the Quarrymen hoods resemble those of the Ku Klux Klan.

As for the underwear issue... a little fan service never hurt anyone. Let's give it a few more issues before we argue whether or not they're making a habit of such things just for the sake of sensationalism.

340 days until The Gathering 2007 in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2007]
"Everything in this room is edible, including you. Though that's called cannibalism, and is frowned on in most cultures." - Willy Wonka (as played by Johnny Depp)
posted @ Mon, Jul 17, 2006 12:47:48 pm EDT from 24.106.128.24

Not trying to stifle debate. I just had an issue with the use of the word "unnecessary".

There is nothing wrong with the way you feel, even though I think this country is way, way, way too uptight about that sort of thing. I look at a panty shot and just say "So". I don't like the panty shot. I don't dislike the panty shot. It's just there.

But this puritan attitude is what leads to things like the whole Janet Jackson/Super Bowl fiasco from a few years back.

ANd hey, no one complains that we saw Matt Bluestone in his briefs.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"They spent so much time looking at Janet Jackson's tit, I actually thought Osama bin Laden was hiding in it." - Lewis Black
posted @ Mon, Jul 17, 2006 12:17:19 pm EDT from 68.199.4.45

YAY! Gargoyles is selling fairly well! ^_^

A little part of me is a bit miffed that Gargoyles isn't on the top of that list... Stupid people with no sense of taste, buying X-men instead of Gargoyles... >=(

The Sadistic Cow - Some of it may be art mistakes, since a lot of the art is off proportion. I guess the next issue will let us know either way since we'll be seeing more of Elisa, as well as Angela and Margot.

I think part of the reason I was so disappointed is that I hold Gargoyles to higher standards than other shows/comics. I love the series immensely, and it was nice that the story was well-written and didn't resort to crude humor or other similar measures to attract attention. I'm really attached to it and don't want to see it "sell out" in any way.

Another reason is that those shots and the breast enhancements make it seem like the staff doesn't think the story alone can sell the comics. Like Elisa isn't good enough on her own, without the occasional peek. Besides, it's not like the people looking solely for that stuff are going to pick up Gargoyles. If they want breasts and butts, there's far more detailed and hardcore comics to pick from. They can even pick up the Marvel Gargoyles comics, where every other panel was a "sexpot" pose.

As for Greg B's comment... His argument makes all other debate pointless. Sure, we don't need Gargoyles to live, but that doesn't mean we can't debate our opinions.

Siryn - Actually, there's two panty shots. The first wasn't such a big deal. The second is when she kicks Banquo, and her dress goes up. That one was just pointless. Yeah, there's far worse out there, but still.... it's not something I expected from Gargoyles.

Siren - "The nightshirt Elisa was wearing, the sports shirt...looked big on her, think it might have been Derek's?"
Probably not. Lots of women wear big shirts as PJs.

Blaqthourne & Crimson Fury - Yeah, a lot of the art was either bad or inconsistent (or both). Matt looks okay in his first scene, but later... BLEAH!

Christine - "I dunno about the rest of you, but I'd be shocked and disappointed if there was an up-kilt shot of Macbeth and he was wearing boxers ..."
Maybe he wears a kilt in modern times. Maybe he serenaded 'Dominique' with a kilt and bagpipes! Maybe he made his money from mass-producing kilts with built-in boxers! Maybe...
Makhasu - [aknellthatsummonsthee@yahoo.com]
Shave my chest and call me baldy!
posted @ Mon, Jul 17, 2006 3:19:30 am EDT from 66.74.220.146

Comment Room Archive

Comments for the week ending July 24, 2006

Index : Hide Images