Comment Room Archive : Gargoyles : Station Eight

Count me in as someone who thinks Robbins figuring out Hudson is a gargoyle is great. I mean the moment Robbins hears it on the news, I'm sure he'd figure it out, hes a smart one.

And "Broadway Goes to Hollywood" as I've said before was an alright episode. It wasn't great, but it was somewhat entertaining. The things that bother me about it are the weird rocket backpack Broadway gets hooked up to because it is so unrealistic, and the fact that Fox's battle armor is simply Robyn Canmore's battle armor character model re-used. The general story outline and plot I thought were pretty good, and I was glad that the Broadway/Angela romance wasn't ignored as it was throughout the rest of TGC. It would've been neat if Fox's assistant guy had been developed for a few episodes before betraying her so that his treachery was more poignant, but I don't suppose I can ask TGC to do much continuity and long term planning.

As for PIT, I think a whole range of pro and anti gargoyle groups would and should pop up. Realistically, there are probably a lot of people who would join a non-violent anti-gargoyle group or a violent pro-gargoyle group, not just the non-violent pro-gargoyle group (PIT) and violent anti-gargoyle group (Quarrymen) that we saw and seems to cast people into very black and white sides of the issue. I'm sure in 1996 there are a lot of people with a lot of different ideas on how to deal with gargoyles, everything from leaving them alone, attempting contact, capture one or more for scientific study, hunting them for sport, and eradicating them completely. It would be interesting to capture all the many viewpoints (which I might add Greg has already done a better job of than TGC with the Art and Lois scene.)
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"Welcome home." -Brooklyn, The Journey/ Nightwatch: Clan-Building
posted @ Sun, Aug 6, 2006 8:51:03 pm EDT from 70.253.191.19

Yes, good point.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Sun, Aug 6, 2006 8:44:00 pm EDT from 4.245.19.40

TODD> Only if New York became a Fascist state. The "authorities" don't have that kind of power.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Sun, Aug 6, 2006 8:10:47 pm EDT from 65.33.128.134

Of course, what would really make an interesting (but dark) idea would be for, after a few public battles between the Quarrymen and this hypothetical violent pro-gargoyle group that result in millions of dollars worth of damages, the authorities decide to solve the problem by hunting down the gargoyles, smash every last one of them, and see if that'll stop all those fights.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Sun, Aug 6, 2006 7:58:45 pm EDT from 4.245.19.40

Robbins figuring out that Hudson was a gargoyle was a good idea. I betcha it was one of Greg's ideas that did get in there. Of course I expect if/when Greg does it, it will be part of a better story.

I still think the PIT characters were really annoying. An interesting take on a pro-gargoyles organization would be something more like Green Peace. A pro-gargoyle group that's violent.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Sun, Aug 6, 2006 7:28:23 pm EDT from 65.33.128.134

Yes, and the ironic thing is that so many of the "permanent changes" in the Goliath Chronicles were things that would have to be undone (the public perception changing at the end of "Angels in the Night" - including Margot's attitude, the Quarrymen being discredited and sent to prison, Thailog and the Clones turned to stone), that any attempt to continue the series that treated the Goliath Chronicles as canon would have to wind up undoing so much of what they'd done that it wouldn't be that different from ignoring it. (The one serious story potential that I can see coming from TGC other than all of those "reversals" would be the possibility of what the Illuminati are going to do to Xanatos when they figure out that he helped foil their attempted assassination of E--n P-x.)

Though I will confess that I very much liked the concept of Jeffrey Robbins having figured out for himself that Hudson was a gargoyle (one of the very few ideas in TGC that I liked - that and the bit in "Broadway Goes to Hollywood" of Fox getting a couple of her friends to pretend that they were in trouble so that Broadway could come to their rescue - just at a point when the rescue would be getting a lot of media coverage. Just the sort of thing that she would do, and almost making up for her OOC portrayal in "Ransom").
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Sun, Aug 6, 2006 7:21:06 pm EDT from 4.245.19.40

TODD> I agree that it would be nearly impossible, simply because you'd have to do so much damage control to bring back the series drama.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Sun, Aug 6, 2006 6:42:32 pm EDT from 65.33.128.134

I suppose that much of the quietness comes from the fact that the room clearing's coming up.

I was expecting more disagreement over my argument that it would be difficult to continue the series past "Angels in the Night", myself.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Sun, Aug 6, 2006 6:31:11 pm EDT from 4.245.19.40

IM BACK!!! Man what a tough couple of days. Im little pissed in finding out that if I didn't bowl in handicapp, I would be the 2nd best male junior bowler in CA. From now on, im going scratch.

So issue #2 has been scheduled for release now in September. That sux, but I'm sure the extra wait will be worth it.
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
Kenny Rogers has been a country singer, host for Punk'd, host for Jackass, had his own reality show, had an appearance in Fear Factor, owned a ice cream parlor, had a testicle exam booth, and has been hit in the head with a bat more times than I can imagine. What will he do next?
posted @ Sun, Aug 6, 2006 6:27:05 pm EDT from 69.231.248.9

Sorry. That was me.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
that is all I will say.
posted @ Sun, Aug 6, 2006 6:21:27 pm EDT from 198.53.28.99

I don't remember any 'Mike'. when was he here?
Anonymous
37472d
posted @ Sun, Aug 6, 2006 6:20:48 pm EDT from 198.53.28.99

Yeah, even though his opinions and arguments were not too popular in here, I'd love to see him around more. He seemed very articulate and sensible. He didn't attack, but supported his argument. Kudos to him. I know we don't agree with his views on TGC, but I respect that he liked it. He was a Gargoyles fan, so good for him.
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"Welcome home." -Brooklyn, The Journey/ Nightwatch: Clan-Building
posted @ Sun, Aug 6, 2006 5:42:05 pm EDT from 70.253.191.19

I was saying that maybe he was really someone else, but looking back over his post, I don't like that theory any more. His grammar was suprisingly spot-on, for the most part.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"If you can dodge traffic, you can dodge a ball." -Rip Torn.
posted @ Sun, Aug 6, 2006 5:14:50 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

Yeah, maybe we all imagined him...
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"Welcome home." -Brooklyn, The Journey/ Nightwatch: Clan-Building
posted @ Sun, Aug 6, 2006 5:08:56 pm EDT from 70.253.191.19

Actually, I kind of liked them being referred to as vandalism.

And maybe Mike doesn't really exist.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"If you can dodge traffic, you can dodge a ball." -Rip Torn.
posted @ Sun, Aug 6, 2006 3:00:58 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

I noticed. I'll admit, I was expecting some people to call me on my "vandalism" comment.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Sun, Aug 6, 2006 2:13:40 pm EDT from 65.33.128.134

Slow couple days...
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"Welcome home." -Brooklyn, The Journey/ Nightwatch: Clan-Building
posted @ Sun, Aug 6, 2006 1:40:49 pm EDT from 70.253.191.19

Blaqthourne & Crimson Fury: I have similar memories of Football and TGC. Maybe suppose those who were preempted are blessed to live a charmed life.
Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]
Remember the old Gargoyles comics!
posted @ Sun, Aug 6, 2006 5:19:28 am EDT from 69.54.209.87

Warcrafter> Thanks for the info about the shirts. Hopefully everything is alright with her. I've been waiting for 6 years for one of the shirts (since I first saw it at G'00).

TGC> I don't remember minding those episodes too much. I know I was highly disappointed in the absence of Bronx from most of the episodes.
What I most remember about TGC is that with ABC putting it in its 11:00 or 11:30 time slot, it was usually preempted for college football. Most of the episodes I have on tape are from Canadian TV.
Blaqthourne & Crimson Fury
posted @ Sun, Aug 6, 2006 1:04:34 am EDT from 4.230.255.167

Maybe the art is running a bit late, this sort of thing happens all the time with comics. No big deal. I don't think the wait will be that long.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Sat, Aug 5, 2006 7:21:26 pm EDT from 65.33.128.134

I'd like to know what pushed the release date of #2 back by a month myself. I hope that we soon get an answer on that one.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Sat, Aug 5, 2006 6:46:19 pm EDT from 4.244.18.193

Greg B> Yeah, I get what you are saying, and honestly I knda get the same feeling. I'm just trying to think of scenes which could work in Issue 2 that would be cool for us and still be cool for new fans. Just an idea.
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"Welcome home." -Brooklyn, The Journey/ Nightwatch: Clan-Building
posted @ Sat, Aug 5, 2006 5:38:56 pm EDT from 70.253.191.19

haha hears the porn music play if the jason and elisa thing went any further ;-P
Shara
posted @ Sat, Aug 5, 2006 4:26:48 pm EDT from 4.246.215.63

I like to think the Jason/Elisa scene happened, so Elisa would have already picked that stuff up.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Sat, Aug 5, 2006 3:42:59 pm EDT from 65.33.128.134

No, I meant do a similiar scene to that Elisa/Jason scene, but change the it to a Elisa/Goliath scene. Really, it wouldn't be much like the Elisa/Jason scene, but I was inspired by it, lol. The point is, I think coming across old tokens from old adventures in the Clocktower would be cool, and the Elisa/Goliath Halloween picture would be particularly poignant and a good plot piece to illustrate for new viewers the love story there more than Issue 1 did.
I just think it'd be neat to see things like Hudson's stone face, the Sun Amulet and stuff like that, even if no mention was made of why they were there. Almost teasers for new viewers to go get the DVDs. Like they don't need to know the significance of that stuff to get the story, but ti is cool to know anyway.
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"Welcome home." -Brooklyn, The Journey/ Nightwatch: Clan-Building
posted @ Sat, Aug 5, 2006 3:35:12 pm EDT from 70.245.253.14

MATT> I don't think that scene would work for issue 2. If Greg does bring in the scene between Elisa and Jason, I think a flashback in a later story involving Jason would be the more appropriate place to do it.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Sat, Aug 5, 2006 3:17:54 pm EDT from 65.33.128.134

I kinda wonder if it would somehow be possible that in Issue #2 Greg could sorta rewrite the Hunters Moon scene where Elisa and and Jason meet in the destroyed Clocktower and make it work for Goliath and Elisa in the Clocktower. I think having the Quarrymen chase them there as happened in The Journey would be good, but as they are hiding out they find stuff from earlier adventures, Lex's computer, a picture of Goliath and Elisa on Halloween, The magical Sun Amulet, Hudson's face of himself from The Price, and other things.
I think a scene like that could establish a past that new fans would want to explore and the scene could work to establish more firmly the romance between Goliath and Elisa.

Just a thought.
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"Welcome home." -Brooklyn, The Journey/ Nightwatch: Clan-Building
posted @ Sat, Aug 5, 2006 3:15:51 pm EDT from 70.245.253.14

Greg B> "TGC was vandalism."

Remind me to buy you a drink at the hotel bar next year. :) Truer words could not possibly be spoken.

Makhasu> Nooooooo!!! I've been waiting eagerly for Issue #2 and now I have to wait another MONTH?! Is this going to create a domino effect that will (Greg forbid) push all the following issues back an extra month??

Y2Hecate> Great. Thanks. It's nice to know Hotel parking is free, and even nicer to know there'll be some others arriving early. I'm kind of hoping Thom arrives early. I promised him at G2006 I'd bring him a copy of Wormwood (and possibly Wormwood 2) to G2007, and if he comes early, that gives me time to get it (them) to him before all the craziness that is the con begins. As far as Dollywood, great, thanks. :) Considering that most of (if not all) of my next tax return (which should be fairly large) is paying for our trip, I think we'll afford it. Not to mention that, as I think I mentioned before, VidTheKid wants to take me to the Smokies National Park, which is why we're coming early. But, in any case, we'll see you and any other early birds there.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Sat, Aug 5, 2006 8:00:00 am EDT from 209.239.132.117

Cripes. Gargoyles #2 has been pushed to September. Here's SLG's new production schedule.
http://www.slavelabor.com/prod_schedule.html

Kythera - I don't think we're quite on the same page; you've missed what I was talking about completely. Let's just drop it.

Todd - "I'm a little surprised that Mike hasn't shown up to deliver his rebuttal to all of our statements about why the Goliath Chronicles should be ignored by now."
He may not have had the time to yet. Defending a tetchy subject like that from such strong opposition is gonna be difficult and time-consuming.
Makhasu - [aknellthatsummonsthee@yahoo.com]
Shave my chest and call me baldy!
posted @ Sat, Aug 5, 2006 4:38:21 am EDT from 66.74.220.146

Sorry for not seeing this when it was originally discussed, but I've been busy as usual, and always forget to check S8. ^_^;
Hopefully I can clear up any concerns about the hotel rooms and transportation.

The room rate that we have locked in for The Gathering attendees will not increase or decrease, even after the hotel does their rennovations and their normal prices rise.
It's true that the Gathering rate is good until the con block sells out, however, that is unlikely. The way our contract works is, we have 30 rooms in the block to begin with, and if we don't book all of those rooms, we'll have to pay more as a penalty. But if we fill up that block of rooms, we will be allowed more rooms at the Gathering rate, thus increasing our block, and decreasing our cost on the convention rooms.
To sum it up, the only way we would run out of rooms in the con block is if the ENTIRE hotel, all 425 rooms/suites, fills up.
This doesn't mean that you should wait until the last minute, though. Pigeon Forge IS a popular tourist town, and they have many conventions and events throughout the year, as well as random vacationers. Rooms do get booked up, and hotels do get filled quickly, so reserve your rooms as early as you can.
In the event that the entire hotel fills up, we'll work with the Grand to try and fit people into their nearby overflow hotels at the same, or a similar, rate. But this is not a given, so it's safer to book now.

Even if you're not sure if you can go or not, it's best to book rooms NOW. You will not be charged until you arrive at the hotel. They only ask for a credit card in order to hold the reservation. And if you find out later that you can't attend, you may cancel your room within 72 hours (3 days) of your arrival time/date without any penalty. (Some have apparently been told by the hotel that you can cancel within at least 24 hours and recieve no penalty. This is great, but be sure to check with the hotel, just in case. Their policies may have changed.)
Also, I believe that if you book extra days to your trip (not just the 4 weekend days, but add on Thursday or Tuesday, for example), that those additional days will be given the Gathering room rate as well. I will be double checking to see if that is true or not.

As for transportation between the hotel and airport, The Gathering Hotel and Links pages have links to area car rental and taxi services. You can call these places and find which is currently the cheapest. There are no trains for the area, and the hotel does not offer a shuttle itself, but we are looking into bus and shuttle services, as well as possible taxi group discounts. Updates on that will be sent to the mailing list as soon as they are available.
For those of you thinking about driving to the Gathering, remember that parking at the hotel is free. :)
For those of you not driving in, but debating car rental to get around town - Pigeon Forge and the surrounding areas of Gatlinburg and Seviereville have a "Fun Time Trolley" that will get you pretty much anywhere around the area for 50 cents. Their site and information can be found from the Gathering's Links page.
The drive from the airport to the hotel, I would probably compare to that of LAX to the Hyatt for 2006. The actual distance is a bit farther, but there's far less traffic, and it's nearly a straight shot. It's not too bad of a ride, I think.

And um.. current gas prices around here in East TN are about $2.94, depending on the area, but who knows what'll happen between now and the Gathering. They've been going up and down a lot lately, but I'll be sure to keep an eye on it.

KingCobra - I'm glad to hear you and VidTheKid will be staying for so many days! Myself and some other staff members will be arriving early as well, so we'll likely see you there! Maybe we can help you find some of the main area highlights that you might like to see. And to answer your question about which day the Dollywood trip will be.. both. ^_^ After closing ceremonies, and a break for everyone to get sorted and such, we'll be heading to Dollywood for the evening to pick up tickets and have a little fun, scout out the park. Dollywood has a policy that says if you purchase entry to the park after 3pm, you are allowed in the entire next day as well. So, we'll be able to go to Dollywood for 1 and a half days, for those interested. It'll help make things a little less rushed, I think. Figure out the layout on the first day, and waste less time finding things on the second. I'll have more info on that soon in one of the upcoming mailing list announcements and on the website. ^_^

The first mailing list update is coming soon.. and Happy birthday Spen!
I think that covers about everything. If I missed an important Gathering-related question, or need to clarify anything, let me know! I'm gonna try and keep an eye on this place more. Or just email me. That works too. ^_^
Y2Hecate - [y2hecate@gmail.com]
Pimpin' ain't easy.. but it sure is fun!
posted @ Fri, Aug 4, 2006 10:44:49 pm EDT from 172.165.158.15

Spen: Happy birthday. Don't do anything I wouldn't do. Or would, for that matter. Unless you see a dead body. In which case, have at those eyes!

Todd: I think it would be interesting if, in the comic, we see that someone like Hudson is watching the broadcast of "Nightwatch." If there were to be a musing about who Lennox Macduff really is, I think that would be the best way to go about it.

Greg B: Just as long as Da Vinci doesn't then add an eyebrow ring and a gel-spiked haircut and then say that that was the way he always wanted to paint it. Sorry, but you know me. Always looking for ways to allude to the fact that George Lucas is a dick. ( ;
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"I'm just watching a bad dream I never wake up from." -Spike Speigel.
posted @ Fri, Aug 4, 2006 9:14:31 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

Greg B. : Amazing as it sounds, there actually *are* a few TGC fans out there. Just take a look at the TGC page at TV.com. Also, while I was fiddling with the web archive Wayback Machine a few months back, I stumbled onto a TGC site that featured reviews from a few people who liked the show, and IIRC, there was a page that had Goliath's opening monalouges from each episode right on the front page.

Incidentally, today is my birthday.
Spen
"Why do people always use sports metephors when they want you to do somthing stupid?" - David Swaine
posted @ Fri, Aug 4, 2006 8:11:01 pm EDT from 216.248.119.208

http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/newsitem.cfm?NewsID=6182 If you haven't read this already.
Berl_Odoikalbylno Daedalus
posted @ Fri, Aug 4, 2006 7:55:26 pm EDT from 142.177.228.13

Incidentally, after all this talk about the suggestive elements, I just hope that we also don't wind up with a lot of crude bathroom humor in the comic such as Bronx lifting his hind leg next to a Steel Clan or Coyote robot or the trio answering the call of nature on top of some pigeons with an attitude of "payback time".
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Fri, Aug 4, 2006 7:49:17 pm EDT from 4.245.22.52

Ed and Todd> I can understand your concerns there. While, I am sure the art will continue to be commented on, I am sure the story will be talked about also.

When I review comics, I reserve one paragraph for story and another for art.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Fri, Aug 4, 2006 7:24:29 pm EDT from 65.33.128.134

ED - I share your fears on the art issue; I certainly hope that, once we get new stories rather than an improved version of "The Journey", our discussions will focus on the stories themselves and not on the way that Hedgecock draws the characters. But then, I'm more a writer than an artist (and believe me, you wouldn't want me to draw the comics - even the people most concerned with Hedgecock's style would sooner have him over me if they could see my drawings), so I'm biased.

I'm still curious to see what differences there might be between Gargoyles #2 and the second half of "The Journey". In Gargoyles #1 we had the opening sequence slightly reshuffled (opening with the "man on the street" interviews rather than with Goliath's monologue), Goliath's encounter with Art, his reminiscing about how the clan's adventures began, the scene with Matt and Chavez, and one or two extra little lines here and there (such as Vinnie's "Well, I don't got no kids" and Banquo calling Elisa something really crude but getting punched out by her before he can finish saying the word). I know that in Greg's original script, Goliath continued jumping from one building top to the next with Elisa at the end rather than gliding off on that damaged wing and that the final scene was Travis Marshall signing off after Macbeth and Margot's debate degenerated into name-calling, so it's safe to say that we'll see these in #2 as well. It'll be interesting to see what else is there, though (I still wonder if Greg might include one or two hints about Lennox Macduff's true identities to prepare the people just getting introduced to "Gargoyles").
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Fri, Aug 4, 2006 6:45:35 pm EDT from 4.245.22.52

"TGC was vandalism."
Ooooh, that's interesting!
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"Welcome home." -Brooklyn, The Journey/ Nightwatch: Clan-Building
posted @ Fri, Aug 4, 2006 4:10:11 pm EDT from 70.246.150.221

ED> There are TGC fans?

Mike's post did cross a line with that. It made the post more personal, and then he started going into this whole paranoid paragraph about how "Greg will try to prevent TGC from being released on DVD"... which, was, well... out there, to say the least.

I guess the best analogy I could use is this. If someone paints a mustache and glasses on the Mona Lisa, is Leonardo DaVinci selfish if he paints over that to fix his painting?

TGC was vandalism.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Fri, Aug 4, 2006 2:22:00 pm EDT from 65.33.128.134

Matt: I feel the same way about all the art criticisms. At first, there were lots of well-argued points being made (even though I didn't agree with most of them) and it seemed like it was just because the story wasn't new to us whereas the artists' take was. But with beaks and breasts and panties, the thing has gone on so long that I'm getting a horrible vision of #3 being released, the first new 'canon' material in a decade, and the most enduring topic of conversation in fandom for the following two months being the size of Lexington's foot on page 13 or something of that nature.

KingCobra: Greg said...
"It was a Tricksters story. Initially it was to include Owen/Puck, Raven, Anansi and Coyote. Plus Lex and the Family Xanatos. I think as time has gone on, I would have dropped Anansi and Coyote from this one. Focused more on Raven as the Trickster/Villain. Saved the multi-Trickster episode for another story." (Ask Greg, 26/7/00)

I would speculate that the money angle came in the TGC redevelopment, but perhaps we'll find out in a few months.

Greg: I don't think it's unfair to call Greg selfish for not accommodating TGC fans. I mean, I don't agree, but it's a personal opinion on a decision in the public domain.
Ed
posted @ Fri, Aug 4, 2006 2:15:19 pm EDT from 213.187.39.126

TODD> Honestly, the way Mike posted, it seemed to me like he felt he was speaking for "the fans". He may have been surprised when he read our rebuttals and found no one that agreed with him.

I'm not calling him a troll. I may completely disagree with every word he said, but he was articulate at least. But, I think he definitely crossed the line when he said Greg was selfish.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Fri, Aug 4, 2006 1:02:50 pm EDT from 65.33.128.134

KingCobra_582 - <What, exactly, was 'Ransom' supposed to be about TGC completely re-did it?> Ok, I'm going to take a stab to say that was supposed to the tricksters' episode where they kidnapped Alex. That's what *I* think it was supposed to be. I'm fairly sure "Runaways" was supposed to be about Brooklyn timedancing off.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Fri, Aug 4, 2006 12:50:44 pm EDT from 63.232.251.174

I'd hardly call Katherine a pedophile. I doubt she went after Tom in any sort of predatory way. Cradle-robber, maybe. By our modern standards, yeah, their relationship probably did start when he was of an age that we'd consider illegal. But we don't know. Personally, I don't see it as anything to get worked up about in this instance. :: shrug ::
Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
posted @ Fri, Aug 4, 2006 12:31:21 pm EDT from 71.112.162.72

Makhasu-- But the Puritans were all ABOUT total repression, which is why I think your choice of wording is extremely poor. IMHO, I don't think this country needs more repression--it needs LESS. I mean, come on... the sight of a nipple, or a cop who has just rolled out of bed in a t-shirt and visible underwear throws everyone into a tizzy. That strikes me as odd. It's just a breast. It's JUST an average working woman who just woke up after falling a sleep in her t-shirt and undies (goodness knows I do it quite often in the summer, and don't always stop to change clothes when I get up to feed the cat in my own apartment). Who the heck really cares? OMGSHOCKHORROR, but I actually have to give a nod to whoever decided on that bit of characterization; I think it's a lot more "natural" (e.g. she's not wearing baggy flannel pants just for the sake of not offending anybody--she's alone in her own gorram apartment for crying out loud).

Personally, I'm more worried about why the artist can't correctly proportion a human figure (OMG the size of Elisa's hips when she's still laying in bed... they're bigger than her whole torso!), but calls himself a professional. But that's another rant I'm not getting into *again*.

Anyway, I've said my piece, I'm done. Email me if you want to discuss this some more.
Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail.com]
I do not suffer fools, gladly or otherwise.
posted @ Fri, Aug 4, 2006 11:20:20 am EDT from 69.244.247.43

Ed> I'm curious. What, exactly, was 'Ransom' supposed to be about TGC completely re-did it?

And I recall how, in the opening monlogue, how Goliath had mentioned money. Was this from an early draft of 'Ransom' that they just never fixed?
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Fri, Aug 4, 2006 10:45:01 am EDT from 209.239.132.157

Funny comic strip. Sure the writing was funny, I laughed, but I couldn't appreciate the comic strip because the art was way off. All the characters had eyes that were too big and what was going on in Panel three? Greg's head is totally out of proportion blah blah blah.

*rolls eyes*
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"Welcome home." -Brooklyn, The Journey/ Nightwatch: Clan-Building
posted @ Fri, Aug 4, 2006 8:37:06 am EDT from 70.246.150.221

I'm a little surprised that Mike hasn't shown up to deliver his rebuttal to all of our statements about why the Goliath Chronicles should be ignored by now.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Fri, Aug 4, 2006 8:05:48 am EDT from 4.244.208.57

Todd: That's correct. I wasn't sure whether or not you'd like it if I used your name, though.

Matt: Funny you should mention that. Because the next episode after "Ransom" was focused on Brooklyn, and then after that was an episode primarily featuring Broadway, which was also the way it was in the first season. I think Greg said in one of the interviews that we'd be seeing some new characters soon, which leads me to suspect that we might see Brooklyn's family in the near future. But at the same time, I suspect that he might also want to give newcomers a chance to get accustomed to the universe.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"I'm just watching a bad dream I never wake up from." -Spike Speigel.
posted @ Fri, Aug 4, 2006 6:39:58 am EDT from 69.174.3.196

I don't like yellow either. I'm gonna try... pink. Nobody seems to be using pink.

Ya'know, it's strange that a complaint over panties showing gets a stronger response than Katherine being accused of pedophilia. Call me crazy, but that just strikes me as sad.

First of all, that very idea is preposterous. The show would never have that sort of thing in it. Second, the series itself says the contrary. When the Magus narrates his story to Elisa on Avalon, it shows Katherine's relationship with Tom starting when he's a young adult. Not 8, 11, or even 15 or 16. When they're together, he looks to be about 18 or 19.

Oh, and I found a hilarious comic on DeviantArt about Gargoyles issue #1. Here's a link:
http://www.deviantart.com/view/36461458/

Kythera - "Actually... I think you kind of set yourself up for that one by using the word "puritan". That word in itself tends to invoke EXACTLY that kind of extreme repressiveness; to my mind, anyway, there's nothing "moderate" about "puritan". I think I get what you were trying to say, but that was a poor choice of wording."
I referred to the country needing more puritan influence than it has, not being completely puritan. A little repression isn't the same as total repression.

Harvester of Eyes - "For a second, I thought Todd had caught jaundice."
I thought he'd lost his mind. The Goliath Chronicles? Canon? After a moment of skimming Mike's post, I finally realized that the text color was wrong so I checked the name. Not Todd. I put the straight jacket and tranquilizer darts away.

Siryn - "Well bravo for you, and amazingly awesome. But I think that you're going a little overboard. Like I said, I think Hedgecock did a brilliant job with the poses and for the most part hid them. So you showed the HEM of Elisa's underwear. That doesn't make her a sexual object.
her dress? BAd taste. It doesn't cry 'sexy' to me. *shrugs* Again, I think you're going overboard with your views here."
I'm not going overboard, I've said before that the panels were pretty minor on the fanservice scale. It's just that my complaint got a lot of responses (more than I'd thought I'd get) that put me in the position of arguing in defense of my views. I guess it may have made it seem like I was stuck on that subject when I really wasn't.
Makhasu - [aknellthatsummonsthee@yahoo.com]
Shave my chest and call me baldy!
posted @ Fri, Aug 4, 2006 6:22:30 am EDT from 66.74.220.146

If Greg's still following his old S3 list, I guess it will be the episodes that the TGC staff turned into 'Runaways' or 'Ransom' since these come first in the order (according to different rundowns). So that would be 'Timedancer' or a multi-trickster story (possibly focusing just on Raven now).
Ed
posted @ Fri, Aug 4, 2006 3:41:44 am EDT from 213.187.39.126

Anyone wanna take a guess on what Greg plans on doing for Issue 3? A new Demona story? Brook's timedance? A Lex focused episode? Broadway and Angela stuff? Any ideas? I'm thinking he'll do a Lex story just as he did after Awakenings, at the beginning of Season 2 and just as TGC did after The Journey. We'll see.
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"Welcome home." -Brooklyn, The Journey/ Nightwatch: Clan-Building
posted @ Fri, Aug 4, 2006 1:15:22 am EDT from 70.246.150.221

Sorry if I gave high hopes to anyone about the little incident. i appologize.

Anyways, I'm not going to be here for most of the day tomorrow and the weekend. Im going to San Diego for my State bowling tournament. Hoping to make it to the top since I seem to qualify every year :)
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
Kenny Rogers has been a country singer, host for Punk'd, host for Jackass, had his own reality show, had an appearance in Fear Factor, owned a ice cream parlor, had a testicle exam booth, and has been hit in the head with a bat more times than I can imagine. What will he do next?
posted @ Thu, Aug 3, 2006 10:48:02 pm EDT from 69.231.197.141

HARVESTER - I was just reading your synopsis of "Generations", after noticing your recent mention of it. I take it that I'm the person you alluded to who mentioned that one of the worst things about the episode was that it didn't feature any pro-gargoyle humans to show that Demona's view of humanity wasn't the whole truth?
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Thu, Aug 3, 2006 9:52:11 pm EDT from 4.244.212.79

I think death by volcano would be too quick for the Goliath Chronicles. Let's braid it on a wheel! That hasn't been popular for centuries. I call the eyes!

Speaking of pain, one of the things I omitted from both versions of the synopsis I did was a list of things I'd rather have done to myself than sit and watch "Generations" again. Topping the list was "I'd rather have a cactus shoved into my urethra," and that seems to be the only one I can remember at the moment. Which might be a blessing to some.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"I'm just watching a bad dream I never wake up from." -Spike Speigel.
posted @ Thu, Aug 3, 2006 9:21:56 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

Finally got my copy of Gargoyles #1. My comic shop found an issue behind the counter for me. Said that they sold out initially and reordered....not too sure, but I believe they sold out again (as I did not see any copys in the store)....

Makes me want to watch all my dvds again!
Nickerous - [nickerous@yahoo.com]
posted @ Thu, Aug 3, 2006 9:01:52 pm EDT from 63.135.41.192

I'm happy to announce that I've finally gotten my Gargoyles comics-all 3 copies from Slave Labor Graphics. *hugs them* Weeeeeeeeeeeeeee! Haven't read 'it yet, but just though I'd report that they've arrived.
Wingless
posted @ Thu, Aug 3, 2006 3:13:14 pm EDT from 74.105.128.170

SpotWeld> I have it on good authority that such a project is being worked on ;)
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Thu, Aug 3, 2006 1:29:50 pm EDT from 65.33.128.134

Hi All!

A long time since my last post. Actually this is my first post for the Year!

KingCobra 582: Brooklyn only irked you? Wow. That must put you in the 'Relatively Satisfied Fan' Catagory, then. :)
Myself, 'Runaways' was the worst waste of tape ever produced, and possibly even the worst episode of TGC. It has no good qualities at all.
You wrote: TGC was a horrible mistake that deserves to be thrown in a volcano and never spoken of again.
Here, Here!

Stormy: I've seen one suggestion that Romeo and Juliet hadn't even hit puberty before the death scene. We see older actors in that role because older actors tend to demand lead roles.

Greg Bishansky wrote: Why oh why would Goliath be hauled into a court room for "robbing a jewelry store". It would be like dragging a couger into a court room.
Because Animals has been dragged into courtroom to pay for crimes as humans? two examples - In 1905 the Supreme Court of the state of New York sentenced an Elephant to death for a double Murder, plus destroying a Police station. Betsy was electrocuted, poisoned and finally Hung with a steam crane.
In 1926, a court in Upstate New York tried a racehorse named Major for aiding a suicide - don't know the verdict on that one, it was settle after the book I was reading went to print.
But in general, yes, animals had their day in court right around the world, until at least World War 2.

Must go...
Goodnight All
Jonathan
posted @ Thu, Aug 3, 2006 1:29:06 pm EDT from 203.109.160.166

I realize it would be a massive understaking.
But given the movitavted and creative nature of this fanbase, I wonder if we could organize an effort to transport the entierty of the "Ask Greg" replies as well as the various other fan resources into a Gargoyles Wiki. It certainly could hurt thin out some of the repetitive questions to Greg and might help promote the show somewhat. Sadly I'm totally wiki-clueless.
SpotWeld
"quero satis vereor"
posted @ Thu, Aug 3, 2006 12:50:00 pm EDT from 192.249.47.8

Disney doesn't give out the sales numbers, so no one really knows for sure how many more Season 2, Volume 1 DVDs need to sell before they decide it's worth producing Volume 2. But it's certainly got to be a lot more than a thousand.

323 days until The Gathering 2007 in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2007]
posted @ Thu, Aug 3, 2006 12:43:39 pm EDT from 24.106.128.24

Apparently, Greg said this at Comic Con, as reported by tvshowsondvd.com. Whether or not it's true, no one can verify it but those who attended.
The Barracuda
posted @ Thu, Aug 3, 2006 11:36:01 am EDT from 204.209.150.46

Greg didn't say that, Warcrafteris misreading/misunderstanding.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Thu, Aug 3, 2006 9:23:31 am EDT from 65.33.128.134

When did Greg say this? Does anyone have a link?
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"There ain't no asylum here. King Solomon, he never lived 'round here." -The only band that really matters ("Straight to Hell")
posted @ Thu, Aug 3, 2006 6:38:07 am EDT from 69.174.3.196

The main probem with TGC was definitely the fact that every episode had an underlying theme. I mean, I like TGC well enough, but none of the episodes really seemed to fit together the way they did in the original series. It made the storyline really choppy.
Maliche
Do you even know HOW to laugh maniacally?- Hudson
posted @ Thu, Aug 3, 2006 2:59:28 am EDT from 71.197.45.106

warcrafter>Haha but if you want to help tell fans come out to some of the coventions I go to with friends and just pass out flyers etc its a lot of fun.
Shara
posted @ Thu, Aug 3, 2006 1:05:33 am EDT from 4.246.209.197

Ok, didn't mean to sound dumb but now here's another question. He said that every fan at comic con should tell 1000 people to buy the DVD and that should be enough but here's the question. How many fans attended?
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
Kenny Rogers has been a country singer, host for Punk'd, host for Jackass, had his own reality show, had an appearance in Fear Factor, owned a ice cream parlor, had a testicle exam booth, and has been hit in the head with a bat more times than I can imagine. What will he do next?
posted @ Thu, Aug 3, 2006 12:09:31 am EDT from 69.231.196.175

WARCRAFTER> Greg said that each fan should go out and tell 1000 people. I have.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Wed, Aug 2, 2006 11:27:07 pm EDT from 65.33.128.134

So according to Greg W., only 1000 more copies of G S2 V1 have to be sold and that should be enough to release V2. Oh, I think I'm going to faint with joy because that sounds simple enough. :)
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
Kenny Rogers has been a country singer, host for Punk'd, host for Jackass, had his own reality show, had an appearance in Fear Factor, owned a ice cream parlor, had a testicle exam booth, and has been hit in the head with a bat more times than I can imagine. What will he do next?
posted @ Wed, Aug 2, 2006 11:02:43 pm EDT from 69.231.196.175

-delurks-
Hi everyone, been very busy as of late which is why I dissapeared. Forgive me for being off topic for a moment, but if anyone is going to Otakon this year, and you spot me, feel free to say hello! (my picture is on the garg frappr) It would be nice to see some "clan"
OK, enough of my spamming, regular posts when I return
faytefire - [dragondreamer@comcast.net]
posted @ Wed, Aug 2, 2006 9:27:03 pm EDT from 71.234.169.135

KingCobra > That was his excuse to rationalize it, not the reason why he chickened out.
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2007]
posted @ Wed, Aug 2, 2006 9:12:14 pm EDT from 66.72.206.200

Patrick> To quote the Magus in the Avalon Trilogy:

"Without the Grimorum, I had nothing to offer her."

Off-topic> There are a couple of my fics that I'm considering pulling from the GFW in the next couple days, simply because I'm tired of them being there. After what happened a few weeks with A Fan and his email address, I wouldn't accidentally flood the 'New Stories' if I were to do so, would I?

*uncertain*
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Wed, Aug 2, 2006 8:55:48 pm EDT from 209.239.132.207

In 994 A.D., Katharine was already several years past the age where she would have been married off already had her father still been alive. The average life expectancy in the tenth century was about half what it is today. Young men and women would get married in their early to mid teens. So it would not have been abnormal for the time period for Tom to take an interest in Katherine starting only a few years after ending up on Avalon. The better question here is why the Magus stood by and allowed it to happen, when it was so obvious that he loved her.
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2007]
posted @ Wed, Aug 2, 2006 7:50:48 pm EDT from 66.72.206.200

I think that the biggest problem with continuing the series past "Angels in the Night" was that that episode was too clearly designed to be a "series finale", and anybody trying to reboot the series from there would have his work cut out for him just trying to find a new direction for the gargoyles' adventures to take.

For a start, I think that the "feared and hated by humanity" element would have been worn out after that story. Yes, we've mentioned here goodness knows how many times that it would take more than one train rescue to solve that problem from a realistic level, but I'd like to point out two things. First, the Goliath Chronicles practically ran the "anti-gargoyle prejudice" theme into the ground by making it the center of almost every episode, to the point where I suspect that the audience was tired of it by the time that "Angels in the Night" aired. Second, the specific representatives of that attitude (Margot Yale and the Quarrymen) were no longer viable characters for dramatizing that attitude after "Angels in the Night": Margot had seen the light, and the Quarrymen would all be going to jail for attacking the passenger train, and would most likely not be let out for a long time (and would from now on be open felons, no different from the Pack or the organized crime rings that the gargoyles had been battling). You could come up with a substitute "civilian adversary" to replace Margot and a new violent anti-gargoyle hate group to replace the Quarrymen, but they'd most likely feel like feeble imitations of them, mere understudies pulled in out of desperation.

On the other hand, continuing the series without that element would be difficult. For one thing, with the anti-gargoyle sentiments gone from the human public (except for the criminals), Demona would be a far less effective antagonist (just as Magneto would be a far less effective antagonist in "X-Men" if the human public finally got over its anti-mutant prejudice). And the gargoyles would now be too settled down; they'd have the support of the city, a good home in the castle, and so on. They could still patrol the city and fight crime, but the "fish out of water" plight would be just about over for them. The series would probably have to wind up shifting the dramatic focus onto the villains and make the clan little more than just a plot device for foiling the villains in Act III.

Truth to tell, if I was in charge of reviving "Gargoyles" and discovered that I'd have to treat the Goliath Chronicles as canonical, I'd most likely decide to, instead of continuing with the adventures of Goliath and his clan, handle the adventures of a few of those other clans or human heroes who got brought in via the Avalon World Tour (such as King Arthur and Griff) with Goliath, Elisa, and the rest, if they showed up at all, only doing so as brief guest stars, or do the "Gargoyles 2198" spin-off (which, admittedly, doesn't clash that much with the Goliath Chronicles - the Gargoyles Minority Protection Act could have been passed in the aftermath of the rescue of the passenger train, the Delilah of the series could be the original Delilah revived from her petrification rather than a namesake descendant, and the Quarrymen of "Gargoyles 2198" could be a copycat organization out to imitate the originals, a bit like the Jokers gang in "Batman Beyond" emulating the original Joker).

As a side-note (since Abby brought "For It May Come True" up), I've often thought (though I've said this before) that the premise of Titania's conjured-up "what-if" world ought to have been not "What if Goliath had been a human rather than a gargoyle", but "What if there had never been any gargoyles to begin with - or if the gargoyles had been humans all along?" That might have been all the more interesting since one possible defect of having the Quarrymen being the main antagonists (people with a private vendetta against the gargoyles for being gargoyles, rather than the more customary super-villain motive of "We want the super-hero out of the way so that we can take over the city without him stopping us!") was that it could suggest to some that things might be a lot better in New York if there weren't any gargoyles around - you'd have more regular muggings and robberies, yes, but at least you wouldn't have the Quarrymen firing off those cannons in the city streets or attacking passenger trains or breaking into PIT Crew meetings. Maybe the premise in this alternate version could be that the guys who made up the Quarrymen would still be out there making life difficult for the law-abiding human citizens of New York, only without the hoods and hammers, even if there hadn't been any gargoyles.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Wed, Aug 2, 2006 7:01:08 pm EDT from 4.245.17.246

Mike> The TGC were horribly made. Not only did it completely re-do the story ides Greg had left them horribly, but the characters were hooribly out of character. Fox's "weepiness" in Ransom, and Brooklyn in "Runaways" always irked me, because there's no way that either character would act like that.

Fox would have gone out, beating ppl up for info as to Alex's whereabouts in stead of being all cry-faced and then kicking Doyle's a$$. Instead, we get a OOC Fox ("The Kidnappers are waiting! Think of our son!") that just made me go 'Ugh'.

Brooklyn seemed a little less like himself. Less sarcastic. More... what's the term I want to use... ah, yes... vulnerable. Not in a good way. And now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure Jeff Bennett was probably bored doing the entire "Runaways" episode (if not the entire TGC run). His "Brooklyn" voice just never struck me as having much life behind it.

TGC was a horrible mistake that deserves to be thrown in a volcano and never spoken of again.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Wed, Aug 2, 2006 6:40:00 pm EDT from 209.239.132.70

I don't think Katherine was necessarily a "pedophile"--it depends on how old Tom was when they actually got intimate. I don't think they were getting it on when he was 9 and she was 19. And, if they DID get it on when Tom was younger than 18, I think some concessions can be made for 1. in the middle ages, peopel got married when they were teeangers, like Romeo and Juliet and 2. Tom didn't have any girls his own age to go after.
Stormy - [decepticoncommand@hotmail.com]
posted @ Wed, Aug 2, 2006 6:25:15 pm EDT from 142.167.196.180

Mike > I only saw a few Goliath Chronicles episodes so I can't speak definitively, but it seemed the Quarrymen were pretty shallow. That was a little disappointing after the complexity of characters in the earlier seasons.

(I confess that TGC's "For It May Come True" concept fascinates me, inspired by "It's A Wonderful Life.")

Todd > Thanks, and thanks for posting your trivia question!

"Eureka" > A while back someone mentioned this new Sci-Fi Channel series, which features Salli Richardson. I caught my first episode last night, and it was doubly appropriate for "Gargoyles" fans. Not only did I enjoy hearing "Elisa's" voice again, but a subplot involved rehearsals for "A Midsummer Night's Dream"! The episode ended with Puck's closing "If we shadows have offended" speech. (The actress didn't have the playful tone that I've come to associate with Brent Spiner's Puck, however).

The episode included a "memory erasing" device similar to the one in "Men In Black," and I had a fleeting creativity demon about what Demona could have done with such a device in the gargoyles universe.
Abby
posted @ Wed, Aug 2, 2006 6:14:00 pm EDT from 24.118.226.247

Mike: For many (most?) fans, the "canon" *is* Greg's canon. Certainly, people have talked casually about "the canonical episodes" for the better part of a decade. It was his vision that brought us to the programme, and when he left, the programme largely ceased to be compelling. This fandom was built to a large degree around a curiosity about Greg's plans, Greg's vision for Season 3, Greg's development of the show and his first 66 episodes (including the first episode of Season 3, which he wrote). He had a game plan for Season 3 - one TGC took and reworked into what is broadly considered a creative and commercial failure. Now he's telling the stories he was intending to tell a decade ago. This isn't a situation like DC or Marvel, universes where hundreds of writers come and go and reinvent or reset to suit the story of the day. TGC is the aberration, not the rule. Greg is the first writer of 'Gargoyles' and almost certainly the last writer of 'Gargoyles'. It's his baby.
Ed
posted @ Wed, Aug 2, 2006 5:52:28 pm EDT from 213.187.39.126

For a second, I thought Todd had caught jaundice.

Greg B: You forgot Egon Pax. Eeeeee-gon Paaaaax, man!

Mike: I don't think I can post the direct link in this CR, but if you check under Fan Fiction at the fansite, you should find the Director's Cut of the plot synopsis I did for "Generations". I think that should illustrate a lot of what was wrong with the Goliath Chronicles.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"There ain't no asylum here. King Solomon, he never lived 'round here." -The only band that really matters ("Straight to Hell")
posted @ Wed, Aug 2, 2006 5:52:00 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

Mike>>>I don't it would be possible to continue after The Goliath chronicles. The last episode had the sprarkly perfect ending where everything was tied up in little bows and everybody saw the Gargoyles were heroes....and was it after a span of many years? No, just one episode.

But then again one could say that the new comic could be after the last episode of TGC since the chronicles lacked any form of continuty.
Spacebabie - [spacebabie@hotmail.com]
"You smell funny."~Jack Sparrow
posted @ Wed, Aug 2, 2006 5:34:55 pm EDT from 70.185.5.174

MIKE> "Eye of the Beholder" is on Season 2 Volume 1. Right after "The Silver Falcon" and before "Vows".

As for Greg ignoring "The Goliath Chronicles", well... why shouldn't he? Those episodes are terrible. They are a mess. They single handedly destroyed many elements that Greg himself set up.

It would be impossible for Greg to tell his stories with that season as canon.

As for the first two issues being an adaption of "The Journey". Greg wrote that episode, and he's using it to introduce the comic for the same reason he made it the first episode of season 3. It's a great introductory story.

And, to be honest, I've only ever seen maybe two other people express disappointment that TGC was being ignored. Everywhere else, from hardcore fans to casual fans who remember the show and are picking up the comic all remember TGC for what it was... a poorly animated abortion.

TGC is not the third and final season. The comic book is now the third season, and, God willing, the fourth, fifth, sixth seasons and beyond.

You say Greg is messing up continuity. I'd say that TGC itself messed up continuity.

- Demona would never ally herself with the Quarrymen
- John Castaway was actually the fugitive Hunter, Jon Canmore... TGC ignored that and made him an "industrialist"
- Killing off Thailog like they did, he was supposed to become the next main villain.
- Xanatos was out of character all season. He's not Mr. Sappy Good Guy. He has a truce with Goliath, and won't harm them, but he's not above manipulating them and is still a scheming bastard.
- Why oh why would Goliath be hauled into a court room for "robbing a jewelry store", people are terrified of them, think they're beasts, animals, demons, etc. It would be like dragging a couger into a court room.
- And despite it's fantasy elements, Gargoyles was still set in a very real and realistic world. TGC was not. TGC was set in a Saturday Morning cartoon.

I could keep going. But, in order to tell good, strong stories, TGC needs to go. Sure, Greg could spend some time doing damage control, but why should he have to? It wastes our time, and the story's time.

Yeah, we need to wait till issue 3 for new stories, but if we wasted time doing damage control, than it'd take a lot more time than that.

If you're looking for any good feelings towards TGC, I'm afraid you're in the wrong place. The sheer assinine stupidity that is TGC is something the fandom is very united on.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Wed, Aug 2, 2006 5:14:01 pm EDT from 65.33.128.134

This is a two-part question/comment: 1) I noticed that this site is not currently taking questions for Greg (states so at the bottom), so I thought I would ask my question here in hopes that some of you may know the answer. Here's the question: Why was the Halloween episode with the werewolf (I think it was titled "Eye of the Beholder") not on the Second season Vol. 1 DVD release? I remember that episode being aired in season two before the "world tour" episodes (a few of which are included on that DVD release). So, if they are presented on the DVD releases in order, why was it left out? Will it be included on a future DVD release? That was one of my favorite episodes and it should be included.

Now, I have a comment: It seems that Greg is ignoring "The Goliath Chronicles" (or as I call it, the third and final season of the show) in the new Gargoyles comic book series. I read his reasons for this on the FAQ (it didn't address the comic book, but it did state his feelings about the third season),so I won't ask the obvious question "why?". But I don't think that he should ignore those episodes. Even though, I really didn't enjoy "The Goliath Chronicles" that much, those episodes were still the final season of the show and, as far as I knew, "canon" at the time they aired.

Respectfully, I know that Greg created the show and can do with it what he wants, but I don't think that it is fair to the fans who watched those episodes and remember them. Some fans may have even enjoyed those episodes. Some fans may have only seen those ABC episodes and not seen the syndicated ones (syndicated shows are not always seen by everyone because of individual TV stations' airing schedules or even not airing shows at all). I was lucky enough to see all three seasons and I prefer the first two seasons, but I don't deny that the third season existed. I would have preferred it if he had started the comic book stories from after the final episode of season three. Especially since it looks like the comic series will be doing pretty much the same stories that were presented in season three (at least it looks this way in the first issue).

Forgive me for saying this, but it seems kind of selfish of him to ignore those episodes just because he had nothing to do with creating them. He chose to leave the show at that time for various reasons (seemingly good reasons), but the show went on without him. He had to accept that, but that shouldn't mean that he pretends now that season three never happened. I've seen this type of creative attitude too many times in the world of comic books, most notably DC Comics. They have restarted and retroactively re-written their universe and various titles so many times, I've come to be disgusted with the company (even though they are my favorite comics company). I'm not a fan of retroactive continuity (pretending that stories that were published years earlier never took place, just to satisfy the current creative team on the books; totally disregarding loyal readers). This seems to be what Greg is doing with the new comic series.

This may not be a major thing to most of you, but I am a nitpicker when it comes to stuff like this. In addition to my points about this on the comic book, I'm wondering now if "The Goliath Chronicles" season will ever be released on DVD? Will Greg try to prevent it from being released simply because he had nothing to do with it and doesn't like it? I'm sorry if I'm coming off as a jerk. I don't mean to be. All I'm saying is that, for the sake of fans who appreciate continuity, if I were the creator, I would acknowledge that season three DID happen and continue the new stories from there. This is just my opinion, so I hope that I don't offend Greg or anyone else.

What do you guys think?
Mike - [knight1024@frontiernet.net]
posted @ Wed, Aug 2, 2006 4:48:46 pm EDT from 67.137.78.156

Over at tvshowsondvd.com there's a mention about Gargoyles season 2 volume 2. A comment Greg Weismen made at Comic Con-along with a photo. If you were there, you already know-if you don't like I didn't, click my name for the lo-down. Nice of tvshowsondvd to help spread the word about the DVDs, and Us here at Station 8. If you're visit from tvshowsondvd.com. Welcome!
Wingless
posted @ Wed, Aug 2, 2006 4:14:13 pm EDT from 74.105.128.170

B&CF> I had the same problem but I finally got a reply from Jennifer L. Anderson. She appologized for the t-shirt delays. Apparently, she had surgery right after the gathering. She also said that she will try to mail out the shirts by this weekend.

Angel H.> I wouldn't trust a thing like that. Getting a "page cannot be displayed" thing just makes it more the reason to not get the whole set.
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
Kenny Rogers has been a country singer, host for Punk'd, host for Jackass, had his own reality show, had an appearance in Fear Factor, owned a ice cream parlor, had a testicle exam booth, and has been hit in the head with a bat more times than I can imagine. What will he do next?
posted @ Wed, Aug 2, 2006 3:29:26 pm EDT from 69.231.202.103

Susan L> Great thoughts on the Katherine, Tom, Magus thing. You sure don't make Katherine sound too good, lol. Anyone know how old Tom was when they arrived in Avalon? How old was Katherine?

OK, so do we have a release date for Issue 2 or not?
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"Welcome home." -Brooklyn, The Journey/ Nightwatch: Clan-Building
posted @ Wed, Aug 2, 2006 3:08:41 pm EDT from 70.245.250.123

Concerned Citizen> Amazon is notoriously unreliable about comic release dates... and shipping.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Wed, Aug 2, 2006 1:50:10 pm EDT from 65.33.128.134

Gargoyles #2 is out this month right? Then why do amazon.com have the release date as september 28th? A surprise birthday present for Greg?
Concerned citizen with wings
posted @ Wed, Aug 2, 2006 1:29:39 pm EDT from 84.13.251.146

Warcrafter >> It means that's not the exact art they are using for the cover. For one thing, you'll notice that Elisa's dress in Issue #1 is not anywhere near the shade of that picture - which is an early promo-piece Greg Guler put together that went on some postcards and stuff. I've seen a version of that art with the matching dress color though.

So basically they mean what they say - that isn't exactly what the cover art is going to be.
Marty "Kaioto" Lund - [creaturecomics@comcast.net]
posted @ Wed, Aug 2, 2006 12:14:42 pm EDT from 198.187.200.254

It has been way too long since I've been in here! =)

Anyway, has anyone else seen this:

https://www.dvdavenue.tv/products.php?iProductID=478&iCollectionID=82&gclid=CKXb7veOwYYCFQZoNAodvGh1Tw

DVDAvenue.tv is selling "The complete 3 seasons of Gargoyles on DVD. All 78 episodes on 5 dvds." I'd sent an e-mail to Disney about it several weeks ago, and it's still being sold, so I sent an e-mail to DVDAvenue today telling them it's a bootleg. (Trying to give them the benefit of the doubt.)

~ Angel

P.S. See ya'll in Pigeon Forge!
Angel H. - [malaika924@yahoo.com]
posted @ Wed, Aug 2, 2006 10:22:20 am EDT from 170.143.252.33

Also before we get too obsessed with Elisa'a panties, lets not forget Fox was actually buck naked on the rooftop in front of Goliath, Elisa, Xanatos and Owen at the end of Eye of the Beholder.
Susan L - [lotsoflabs@comcast.net]
posted @ Wed, Aug 2, 2006 9:05:20 am EDT from 67.186.96.137

In the episode "A Long Way Til Morning" we see Katherine as a young princess who seemed to be fairly spoiled and indulged by her father (Prince Malcolm), and well on her way to being the rude young adult with the overdeveloped attitude of entitlement we see through her behavior towards everyone in Awakenings Pt 1 but particularly towards the Captain of the Guard and the Gargoyles. Prince Malcolm although he had a strong alliance with Hudson at the time encouraged Katherine's behavior at an early age by threatening her with harm at the hands of the gargoyles should she misbehave, and not telling her to treat them or anyone else for that matter with respect. I also have always found it odd that the Magus referred to the gargoyles as unnatural creatures, because I felt he was at the head of the class in the unnatural category between the magic spells and the fact that he never left the woman he was in love with despite the fact that she and her lover Tom lived under the same roof as he did. I won't even get into the fact that Katherine and Tom's early relationship would have made Katherine a bonafide pedifile. I don't think Katherine was aware that the Magus was in love with her until the night he cursed the clan and turned them to stone, but I think that over the years at least between that night and when Tom entered puberty it most certainly occurred to her. I think having both Tom and the Magus at her beck and call worked for Katherine, who may have felt entitled to take what she wanted from both men after giving up her life to tend the gargoyle eggs and raise the hatchlings. I don't think she was above using the Magus, especially since he was so content to allow it while pretending to stay because of his debt to Goliath's clan.
Susan L - [lotsoflabs@comcast.net]
posted @ Wed, Aug 2, 2006 8:58:23 am EDT from 67.186.96.137

B&CF > As I told the last person, all I can do is pass along the message. The Gathering of the Gargoyles has nothing to do with the production of anything sold in the Dealer's Room other than the Grimorum Anthology and the convention t-shirts.

324 days until The Gathering 2007 in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2007]
posted @ Wed, Aug 2, 2006 6:54:15 am EDT from 66.72.206.200

This is about the last resort I know about with regards to t-shirts purchased at the dealer room at G'06. Is there any way to get in contact with Jennifer Anderson regarding the t-shirts? I tried a PM through the gathering website, waited a week, got no reply. Then I tried the two email addresses on the artchicks website (the mailto contact is different that what the link says), waited a week; got a mailbox is full for the jla@artchicks.org address, and no reply from the customerservice@artchicks.org address. I just sent an email out to registration@gatheringofthegargoyles.com about this.
Blaqthourne & Crimson Fury
posted @ Wed, Aug 2, 2006 3:36:28 am EDT from 4.231.35.45

I noticed something on the SLG website. Under comics coming out this month, it shows the Gargoyles cover that we suspect will be the cover of issue 2 but it says that it's not the actual cover art. What does that mean exactly?
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
Kenny Rogers has been a country singer, host for Punk'd, host for Jackass, had his own reality show, owned a ice cream parlor, had a testicle exam booth, and has been hit in the head with a bat more times than I can imagine. What will he do next?
posted @ Wed, Aug 2, 2006 2:02:43 am EDT from 69.234.3.54

Speaking of the Panty thing in the comics, heres something I've never told anyone before:In the old Marvel Gargoyles comics, in one Issue Xanatos is in bed shirtless talking to a guy on a video screen. I've never found Xanatos particularly attractive, but that page kinda turned me on. Sorry if its TMI, but I'm getting sick of hearing about all this panties stuff. The fact that many people didn't even notice til others pointed it out speaks volumes about its insignificance.

Anyway, great point about the Magus just assuming the Princess was dead. It really personified his feelings for her at the time; he wouldn't go after her. Interesting stuff.

So do we have a date on Issue 2 yet...?
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"Welcome home." -Brooklyn, The Journey/ Nightwatch: Clan-Building
posted @ Wed, Aug 2, 2006 1:43:50 am EDT from 70.245.250.123

Thanks for all the welcomes. Cool trivia about Caesar Augustus.
Maliche
Do you even know HOW to laugh maniacally?- Hudson
posted @ Wed, Aug 2, 2006 12:24:13 am EDT from 71.197.45.106

Abby got it right. Good work, Abby!
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Tue, Aug 1, 2006 10:50:15 pm EDT from 4.245.21.30

If you truly want something Puritan, the women of "Gargoyle" would have to dress like this:

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/british/images/17vc.jpg

Seriously, though... can we move past the panty drama? Lordy.

325 days until The Gathering 2007 in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2007]
posted @ Tue, Aug 1, 2006 9:40:42 pm EDT from 66.72.206.200

Wow. Are we still talking about Elisa's panties? There was worse on the show. I do remember at least one shot from "Temptation" where Demona was shown from an angle where there was very little except skin visible (in the first act, I believe). Oddly enough, when I first saw it eleven years ago, I was never in any sort of outrage. And still am not. Of course, eighty percent of the maturing I've done since then has been of the physical kind only, but that's another story.

Greg B: I'd rather not see any costume changes, unless it's a leopard-skin number. ( ;

Matt: I usually skip the first two steps. It doesn't matter how specific I make my search. I could type "What Jackal ate for breakfast on March 14, 1996?" and it would still yield over 300 results.

Wingless: I always found it interesting that Magus also wrote the princess off as dead, even though he never actually saw her die. He could have gone after her when he got free, but instead he just felt sorry for himself and took it out on the gargoyles. So now I'm wondering if his stand against the Weird Sisters was also him trying to conquer his own weakness.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"In the song, 'She'll Be Comin' Round the Mountain When She Comes,' why do they announce so cheerfully that they intend to 'kill the old red rooster when she comes'? Is it some kind of ritual thing? Or is it that they just hate the old red rooster... and now they're just using the fact that she's comin' round the mountain as an excuse to kill it?"
posted @ Tue, Aug 1, 2006 9:20:05 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

Maliche> Welcome. :)
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Tue, Aug 1, 2006 8:30:14 pm EDT from 209.239.132.205

Mahkasha>
>>Meh, I'd have to disagree. I just got back from the Comic-Con, and it was incredibly difficult to find female characters that weren't eye-candy bimbos to some degree.

Alright..but what on earth does that have to do with the discussion of Elisa? Yeah, comic females become eye candy in some comic books. So do guys. (I don't lie...I love Icarus' body...heh.)

>>I guess I've become rather jaded on the issue - very sick of seeing fanservice from minor to major become the norm.

That's fine. But again, I don't think it's here.

>>I'm an artist myself, and if a dress goes up it's because the artist wanted it to. Not because they couldn't find an angle that wouldn't show underwear.

Well bravo for you, and amazingly awesome. But I think that you're going a little overboard. Like I said, I think Hedgecock did a brilliant job with the poses and for the most part hid them. So you showed the HEM of Elisa's underwear. That doesn't make her a sexual object.

her dress? BAd taste. It doesn't cry 'sexy' to me. *shrugs* Again, I think you're going overboard with your views here.

PS. Elisa's a big girl. I'm sure she can take care of herself.

PSS. Elisa wears more clothing then demona does on any given day, and looked a LOT more 'sexual' in the original Marvel gargoyles comic (and exploited probably more) soo...I wouldn't really complain. I think if anything, the comic is more mild than it's previous comic incarnation (but still rocks)
Siryn - [siryn7@aol.com]
Vinnie Grigori's #1 Fan
posted @ Tue, Aug 1, 2006 8:14:32 pm EDT from 65.185.9.61

Kaylle > I too waited a bit too long to post my "Hunter's Moon" remarks. But I look forward to any additional rambles from Greg about parts 2 and 3.

Maliche > Welcome!

Todd > Interesting trivia question. August takes its name from Caesar Augustus, who ruled Rome during the time the "Modesty Spell" was cast on the gargoyles.
Abby
posted @ Tue, Aug 1, 2006 7:47:11 pm EDT from 24.118.226.247

Yes, I've suspected as well that the Magus's anti-gargoyle attitudes had a lot to do with his feelings about Princess Katharine. (I wonder if the reason that most of the humans in Castle Wyvern were anti-gargoyle - the only significant exception being the Captain of the Guard - was also because of a certain attitude of "follow the leader" - if the Princess doesn't like them, neither do we).

Anybody besides me suspect that the queue will reopen as soon as Gargoyles #2 comes out?

Speaking of Gargoyles #2, I wonder whether, when Greg does the scene of Macbeth and Margot's television debate, he'll include one or two little hints for the people discovering "Gargoyles" for the first time through the comic that "Lennox Macduff" isn't just a medieval scholar.

Gargoyles Trivia Question: Today is the first day of August. What connection does August have with gargoyles?
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Tue, Aug 1, 2006 7:07:29 pm EDT from 4.245.21.30

Going to answer this in two parts. First, Magus's attitude towards gargoyles pre-Avalon events: I think there was a general attitude of ambivalence for most of Castle Wyvern's inhabitants when it came to the gargoyles that the Magus would have had in general. I agree that his behavior during "Awakening" was partially influenced by Katherine's own distrust and fear. I'd imagine that any time he spent under the Archmage also may have leaned him towards hating gargoyles. But, as Wingless has pointed out, when face to face with true gargoyle character, the old feelings collapsed, for all of what Wingless has said.

As for Katherine's knowledge of Magus's feelings, I think she was aware that it was more than loyalty to her but I don't think she saw it as romantic interest purely because Magus didn't DO anything. Greg answered this at the later Blue-Mug at the last Gathering: Katherine went with Tom because he actively went after her, while Magus kind of expected it to fall into place.
Asatira
posted @ Tue, Aug 1, 2006 6:20:58 pm EDT from 24.214.68.215

Makhasu-- Actually... I think you kind of set yourself up for that one by using the word "puritan". That word in itself tends to invoke EXACTLY that kind of extreme repressiveness; to my mind, anyway, there's nothing "moderate" about "puritan". I think I get what you were trying to say, but that was a poor choice of wording.
Kythera of Anevern
I do not suffer fools, gladly or otherwise.
posted @ Tue, Aug 1, 2006 5:30:29 pm EDT from 65.169.99.145

Wingless> Good points. Makes me think of something else: Did Katherine, on some level, ever see the Magus' true feelings toward her? I have a hard time believing she was so naive all those years in Wyvern and Avalon to not see what the Magus was feeling.
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"Welcome home." -Brooklyn, The Journey/ Nightwatch: Clan-Building
posted @ Tue, Aug 1, 2006 5:20:15 pm EDT from 70.245.250.123

Greg Bishansky - "You know something, you're right. In fact, I propose a new wardrobe for Elisa. And while we're at it, for Fox, Demona and Angela as well. Something that will offend no one's fragile sensibilities.
Here's a picture:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/gregx/10516-400x500.jpg"

Now you're just going to an extreme, completely ignoring any sort of moderate position and twisting my viewpoint into something it wasn't. I'm referring to decency, dignity, and self-respect in regards to the country not having enough 'puritan' influence. You know that. I'm not advocating total repressiveness.
Makhasu - [aknellthatsummonsthee@yahoo.com]
Shave my chest and call me baldy!
posted @ Tue, Aug 1, 2006 4:38:16 pm EDT from 66.74.220.146

Greg B - . . . .

Smooth. Real smooth.
The Sadistic Cow - [midnightfantasia [at] hotmail.com]
"Every day I smoke two hundred cigarettes and one hundred cigars and drink a bottle of whisky and three bottles of wine with dinner. And dinner is meat. RAW meat. The cook serves me an entire animal and I fight it bare-handed and tear off what I want and eat it and have the rest buried. In NEW JERSEY! For H.A.T.E.!" - Dirk Anger
posted @ Tue, Aug 1, 2006 3:44:21 pm EDT from 69.156.158.188

Matt: Re the Magus, It was always my feeling that his love for Katherine was his motivation for everything in the beginning. Truthfully, if she'd told him to jump off a cliff, I think he would have done it. (I'm exaggerating of course) - but I feel he really wanted to show his loyalty to her, and showing he shared her opinion on the Gargoyles was one way of doing it. Goliath saving her life brought him back to reality. that 1) you can't simply show your love for someone by going against what you truly know is wrong(IE the gargoyles weren't evil) and 2) the fact that Goliath saved Katherine's life - something he was unable to do, that after turning the remaining members of the clan to stone. That's got to be a lot of guilt to carry around. The Magus as a whole comes across as someone who lacks confidence in himself. Proves his honor and loyalty in the end, but lives somewhat of a tragic inner lonely existence. He had Katherine, Tom and the "eggs" around him, and yet he was alone in his oun way.
Wingless
posted @ Tue, Aug 1, 2006 3:41:51 pm EDT from 74.105.128.170

New and unrelated topic:

Does anyone know if Greg ever said when and why the Magus became so hostile to gargoyles (as seem In Awakenings Pt.1)? I mean, in Long Way to Morning Katherine has the seeds planted to totally not like the 'goyles, but Magus seems to be indifferent towards them. Was it his love for Katherine that developed as they got older that influenced his view on gargoyles or has Greg hinted at or said otherwise?
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"Welcome home." -Brooklyn, The Journey/ Nightwatch: Clan-Building
posted @ Tue, Aug 1, 2006 3:13:12 pm EDT from 70.245.250.123

Makhasu - "Puritan? This country's about as puritan as Panda bears in tight leather. I won't go into a speech about it, since this is a Gargoyles comment room. But, if anything, this country needs more 'puritan' influence."

You know something, you're right. In fact, I propose a new wardrobe for Elisa. And while we're at it, for Fox, Demona and Angela as well. Something that will offend no one's fragile sensibilities.

Here's a picture:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/gregx/10516-400x500.jpg
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Tue, Aug 1, 2006 2:35:23 pm EDT from 65.33.128.134

Looks like the queue is closed? That'll teach me to wait so long to post my HM thoughts...
Kaylle - [kaylle at ladyavalon dot com]
Kaylle
posted @ Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:49:53 pm EDT from 70.60.15.159

Makhasu>Actully the con journals are more important then the questions according to greg. Something about disney reading them or something.

Which means I need to get off my duff and write mine hahaha.
Shara - [jeanie54_2000@yahoo.com]
posted @ Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:12:56 pm EDT from 4.246.252.79

Lynati - <And please stop further insulting Makhasu by refering to her as a guy.> Now, you're getting me confused with somebody else. Check all of my posts in this week's cr and you'll find that I have *NOT* referred to Makhasu using any personal pronouns. My last post was referencing JACK-E-CHAN NOT Makhasu.

**Actual questions in JACK-E-CHAN's Ask Greg Post**

One topic

2.Do Mary and Finella try to make contact with Brooklyn and his clan after the spell on them has broken?Like say after Brook's Timedancing adventures end

A 2nd topic

3.In Bad Guys,how does Robyn feel on working alongside a gargoyle,does she still carry her prejudice?

A 3rd topic

4.Is Nick Maza in 2198 a decadent of Beth or Goliath and Eliza's adopted child?

A 4th topic

8.a)What methods did the illuminati use to alter Canmore's/Castaway's features b)what kind of cosmetic surgery is it c)what's it callled d)where can i get it in the real world?

A 5th topic

9.In mythology and religion,gods like Poseidon and Ares are worshiped as local fertility gods and then later worshipped as omnipotent cosmic super-beings,how is this taken into account with The Third Race in the Gargoyles universe?

**End quotation of Actual Questions posted in 1 topic by JACK-E-CHAN**

Then there's this rule from Ask Greg:

Please post separate questions for each topic you wish to ask. If you have 3 or so questions about one topic (for example, Oberon) you may post them together. But if you wish to ask about multiple topics (for example, Oberon AND Goliath and Elisa's relationship) please make separate posts for each topic.

If you've read ask greg, previous multi-topic posts have been deleted once that rule was announced.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:10:34 pm EDT from 71.30.135.236

"tea and anti-overreaction crackers" LMAO

A few years ago, simply looking through the archives might've been sufficient, but these days the archives have become so full of info that when someone has a question they should do this:
1. Search the FAQ
2. if they don't find an answer there, search the archives.
3. If they don't find an answer there (or don't search thouroghly enough) ask the question here in the Comment Room. We are living encyclopedias of Gargoyles and Ask Greg knowledge. Sometimes we can recall the information more readily than Greg can.
4. If you still have no answer check the unanswered questions to see if it has already been asked ahead of you in the Queue.
5. Only if you are absolutly sure it is an original question that does not propose any ideas, etc. should you then post the question.

Just my thoughts, and I totally agree Con-Journals should be posted in a seperate spot. I know Greg wants them and I think they are great, but they slow down the Queue a lot, are repetitive, and usually only of interest to those who submitted them or at least those who attended the Gathering.
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"Welcome home." -Brooklyn, The Journey/ Nightwatch: Clan-Building
posted @ Tue, Aug 1, 2006 9:05:05 am EDT from 70.245.250.123

Patrick: Who's being inhospitable? Merely offering a helpful hint. I actually prefer asking questions in here because A) I get an answer much quicker, and B) every time I search the archives, I can't seem to keep my search results below 300, so chances are my question has already been asked. I look upon it as win/win. The queue stays smaller, increasing the odds that Greg will get caught up in the next two years, and I don't have to wait two years for an answer. I give it my seal of approval. Then I club it over the head and sell its pelt for beer money. ( ;
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"In the song, 'She'll Be Comin' Round the Mountain When She Comes,' why do they announce so cheerfully that they intend to 'kill the old red rooster when she comes'? Is it some kind of ritual thing? Or is it that they just hate the old red rooster... and now they're just using the fact that she's comin' round the mountain as an excuse to kill it?"
posted @ Tue, Aug 1, 2006 6:49:08 am EDT from 69.174.3.196

Since I didn't get a reply a couple weeks ago, I'll ask again:
Does SLG offer subscriptions?

I wasn't aware of Greg requesting to keep Ask Greg posts to a minimum, either. If he said it at the Gathering, I was there and didn't hear it.

A couple things from last week:
People complaining about high gas prices> It also has to do with the fact that gas prices in the US have tripled over the last 7 years.

Jurgan> There is no "Death Tax" in the US. The real name is the Estate Tax. "Death Tax" is a term used by the opponents of the Estate Tax.

Susan L> I'm not from, nor keep up on the politics of, Florida. What exactly would be so horrible if we "end up with 8 years of Jeb Bush"?

Matt> Being an Independant does not mean that you always, or almost always, vote for third party candidates. I'm sure Xanatos votes for the candidate which he feels is most in step with his positions, whether they be Republican or Democrat (or even a third party if s/he's a candidate with a strong chance of being elected).

Harvestor of Eyes> The first thing I thought of when I read Spotsylvania County is something along the lines of "Is that anywhere near Frostbite Falls, MN?". How many write-in votes have Boris Badenov & Natasha Fatale received over the last 40+ years?

General complaints of "I thought this was a 'Gargoyles' comment room" (or similar phrases)> This place has survived as a Gargoyles comment room for at least a decade. There have been many, MANY times when a large chunk of comments are completely unrelated to the show. The vast majority of time they don't last into the next week, and rarely, if ever, gone past 2 weeks. Unless almost the entire week's comments are unrelated to the show and the trend lasts for several weeks, there really is no need for concern that this room will turn into something other than a Gargoyles comment room.
Blaqthourne & Crimson Fury
posted @ Tue, Aug 1, 2006 4:54:23 am EDT from 4.230.255.223

Ya'know, I think that blue on blue is too hard to read. I'm gonna try a different color.

Maliche - WELCOME! It's nice to see new faces. Here's hoping you stick around a while. ^_^

The Sadistic Cow - It took me some time to put that together, since I'm sick as a dog. Sorting through ones thoughts when you're grabbing a tissue every few seconds is hard. Anyway, thanks.

Lynati - "Sorry, but setting it up so that Greg has to go through so many of your questions in a row...amid con journals no less...was a bit selfish."
It's at the very end of the con journals. The queue closes shortly, so anybody who wanted to post a con journal has had over a month to do so. Besides, how are con journals more important than questions? If anything, they usually tend to solicit the same response again and again, with month after month of waiting for new information from questions and rambles. I suppose I may have posted a bit too many questions, but I wanted new info and insights.

"Given how long it will take for Greg to reach your questions, you really ought to have checked the whole archive to see what had been answered first. As well as what was being asked ahead of you. It would take a really long time, yes, but you'd still have your anwsers at least a year earlier than when Greg is going to get to your slew. And then any remaining questions you had...hell, come to a con and sign up for a Mug-A-Guest and ask him some directly. Just don't co-opt the entire thing away from the other muggers."
I DID check. Besides, asking a person to spend countless hours reading every single post is pretty unreasonable. I started reading Ask Greg years ago and have a *generally* good knowledge of what's there to begin with. I checked again before I submitted. Checking what was ahead of me would have been difficult since unanswered questions aren't sorted at all. I'd have to browse through nearly 600 posts. And, concerning the con... Well, some of us aren't able to attend the Gathering. I didn't have the money or time to go this year, as well as years previous. I'm willing to wait for however long it takes Greg to reach my questions. I've been a fan for years, I don't see that changing anytime soon.

Warcrafter - No offense taken. I keep hoping Greg'll take a day out and knock off a couple hundred questions (wishful thinking, I guess), but I doubt that'll happen anytime soon.

Here's the post I was working on before the Ask Greg thing became forefront.

Comic-Con is over...

I saw Greg, Will Terell, and David Hedgecock at the SLG booth and at Greg's panel. I got two sketches from Hedgecock; one of Demona and one of Macbeth. I regret now that I didn't buy an extra comic so I could get another drawing. I watched him draw Lexington on the last day... He does a pretty accurate Lexington, so I don't think anyone needs to worry about how the little gargoyle ends up in the next issue.

I asked Greg if he would ever be doing The Hobgoblin of Little Minds and The Weird Macbeth (VERY eager to see this one). He said that, given enough issues, all would eventually be done. I also grabbed a bunch of those Gargoyles posters and postcards. Very neat.

"What do you think were the best/most memorable/most definitive moments (moments, not episodes) of the original show? What sticks out in your mind...made you gasp, cry, or otherwise dropped your jaw?"
There's too many to list... but here's a few:
- Goliath's line in Hunter's Moon: "On my daughter's life, I swear that I will hunt them down, and I will KILL them." The impact was powerful. I really felt that he meant it.
- COS 4, when Demona and Macbeth confront each other on Lunfanon Hill. Macbeth, trapped between two enemies. Demona, full of misguided fury. Gruoch, horrified as the events unfold before her. And Canmore, ready to avenge his father's death.
- Hunter's Moon 2, when Robyn strikes the Clocktower with those missiles. The clan's home blown to pieces with them inside. I was INCREDIBLY shocked.
- High Noon, the scene where Demona transforms from human to gargoyle in Macbeth's home. The animation was SO gorgeous. and makes all her other transformation scenes pale by comparison.
- COS 3, the scene where the Weird Sisters link Macbeth and Demona together.
- Awakenings, the scene with the captured Katherine. I love her defiance towards the Captain and Hakon. "You're a dead man, Hakon" is my favorite line of hers. Her hatred and strength is so palpable in that scene.
And so-on and so-forth...

Greg Bishansky -- "But this puritan attitude is what leads to things like the whole Janet Jackson/Super Bowl fiasco from a few years back."
Puritan? This country's about as puritan as Panda bears in tight leather. I won't go into a speech about it, since this is a Gargoyles comment room. But, if anything, this country needs more 'puritan' influence.

Stormy -- Is it gratuitious the way the Trio and Goliath run around shirtless all the time? ;)
(Couldn't resist)."
YES! Very gratuitous. I think they should wear pants and long-sleeve shirts (no unbuttoned collars, either).

Siryn -- "Looking at it right now. Both 'panty shots' aren't even what *I* would call a panty shot. And honestly, panty shots shown in fighting scenes go under my 'excuseable' category. Especially here, where you only see the hem of them anyways. Kicking the way she is in that dress with that pose, I think you're going to see a little, and honestly, I'd be more with you if EVERY single action scene was showing flashes of Elisa's underwear, but they're not. I don't think that either 'panty shot' is even worthy of the phrase panty shot. :) But maybe then again I watch too much anime and read too much comics and manga...or everyone here has corrupted my brain, one of the two. ^_^"
Meh, I'd have to disagree. I just got back from the Comic-Con, and it was incredibly difficult to find female characters that weren't eye-candy bimbos to some degree. I guess I've become rather jaded on the issue - very sick of seeing fanservice from minor to major become the norm. I'm an artist myself, and if a dress goes up it's because the artist wanted it to. Not because they couldn't find an angle that wouldn't show underwear.

Kythera -- "...ANIME hair? Hedgecock wanted to give Demona *anime hair?*
...I have nothing kind to say about Hedgecock in regard to that. Jesus H. Christ spreadeagle in a Speedo on a Chrystler... **Weeps**"
Think of it this way... um... at least he's trying. And Greg did nix it. I'm sure he'll keep the art style mostly in check.

Lynati -- "and...doesn't Demona *already have* anime hair? *ducks out of the way of any potential tomotoes and eggs that may be lobbed in her direction*"
Kind've. But it moves and closer resembles choppy, wild hair. I saw Hedgecock's Demona drawings with anime hair, and it just doesn't suit the series or character. Very stiff, chunky, and odd. Misplaced... Wrong... etc.
Makhasu - [aknellthatsummonsthee@yahoo.com]
posted @ Tue, Aug 1, 2006 3:16:40 am EDT from 66.74.220.146

DPH: ...considering some of the stuff that has been left in the queue aqnd actually reached Greg, deleting the entire line of questioning seems unlikely. And please stop further insulting Makhasu by refering to her as a guy. Aside from earlier posts of hers where she referred to herself as female, she has specifically pointed out her gender since this topic has come up.

randomly weighing in: Was it excessive? yes. Was it *rude*? far less than the response to the situation has been here. I can understand breaking up the questions so much; I once had a very large set of questions that intitially got tossed because a single one was deemed to possibly being and "idea", and only the fuss kicked up here- not only by me, but by others who were interested in seeing the responses as well- allowed it to get resubmitted. To which I was extremely grateful.

So I don't know how hypocritical that it makes me to agree with the general sentiment that Makhasu shouldn't have dumped even an eigth of what she did into the queue at one time. Sorry, but setting it up so that Greg has to go through so many of your questions in a row...amid con journals no less...was a bit selfish.

Maybe there *should* be a 5 or 10 question per month limit for each questioner...the problem is, even without this rule in place I've seen a single person- single ip address- post numerous questions, each under a different name. If someone is intent on abusing the system, it is easy to abuse- unless an actual ip-binder thing was put in to ensure that the number of questions was limited.

I still think there ought to be a seperate space for Con Journals and Con Journals *only*. It's been suggested after every con for at least the last two years. I also think someone should go through and weed out all the repeater questions from the Entire queue, as well as the inane ones, but Greg himself has said that he does not want that done.

The search function makes checking to see if a question has been asked much easier than it used to be, when you would have to go through every single section first.

Makhasu, this has been said to other people before: Given how long it will take for Greg to reach your questions, you really ought to have checked the whole archive to see what had been answered first. As well as what was being asked ahead of you. It would take a really long time, yes, but you'd still have your anwsers at least a year earlier than when Greg is going to get to your slew. And then any remaining questions you had...hell, come to a con and sign up for a Mug-A-Guest and ask him some directly. Just don't co-opt the entire thing away from the other muggers.

The rest of you...I dunno. I think some of you need to take a step back from the situation and have some tea and anti-overreaction crackers. I think maybe Patrick's question ought to be meditated on as well; from what I've heard, our fandom has a reputation for cliquishness bordering on snobbishness. I don't think that is accurate, but there are times when I can see why outsiders might have gotten such an impression.
Lynati
posted @ Tue, Aug 1, 2006 2:30:32 am EDT from 70.249.45.163

Maliche - Hiya. You can find "ASK GREG" at the top link on the left side of the page, right under the shadowy pic of Goliath. ;) It's where people submit questions, Greg Weisman answers (if he feels like it, and when he has time), con journals are posted, and Greg rambles. It rocks. :)

Makhasu - I was thinking a lot of that, but unfortunately my brain is heavily laden with medication, so my thought process stinks 80% of the time. ;) Well said, and no problem.

Patrick - It saddens me, too. And you hit the nail on the head, there.
The Sadistic Cow - [midnightfantasia [at] hotmail.com]
"Every day I smoke two hundred cigarettes and one hundred cigars and drink a bottle of whisky and three bottles of wine with dinner. And dinner is meat. RAW meat. The cook serves me an entire animal and I fight it bare-handed and tear off what I want and eat it and have the rest buried. In NEW JERSEY! For H.A.T.E.!" - Dirk Anger
posted @ Tue, Aug 1, 2006 2:14:28 am EDT from 69.156.158.188

*takes cookie* Thanks. Um, what is this Ask Greg that everyone keeps mentioning?
Maliche
Do you even know HOW to laugh maniacally?- Hudson
posted @ Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:32:31 am EDT from 71.197.45.106

Maliche> Welcome, have a comment room cookie *Hands a tray of the world famous, scrum diddly umptious comment room cookies*

Makhasu> Sorry if I got you upset. What I meant by that was if Greg wanted to catch up with the current questions and not be answering questions for all eternity he might do that again, but knowing Greg Weisman, he won't stop until everyone knows the truth to their question. (Which actually doesn't explain why he did it in the first place....unless he didn't....I guess I'll never know)
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
Yay, I got the part. I play Willard in "The Crucible" at the Gallery Theatre
posted @ Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:27:36 am EDT from 69.231.248.235

Um, hi. New here.
Maliche
Do yo even know HOW to laugh maniacally?- Hudson
posted @ Mon, Jul 31, 2006 11:54:41 pm EDT from 71.197.45.106

I'm feeling really sad right now over the level of animosity in here over something so silly as posting questions to "Ask Greg." When did we stop being a fandom that welcomed new faces? Does it really change anything in the grand scheme of things if 80 questions are submitted today, versus one being submitted every day for the next 11 weeks?
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2007]
posted @ Mon, Jul 31, 2006 10:57:21 pm EDT from 66.72.206.200

_Matt_
"I keep a list of questions I'd love to Ask Greg, but the Queue is not just for me. Greg has a limited amount of time and the queue is overflowing with questions as it is. She didn't break any rules, no, but many of us are waiting to ask questions until the number in the queue gets much lower and now that will be even longer."
So... basically you're upset that your questions will take longer to get answered? Nobody is waiting for you to decide when the queue is small enough to ask new questions, nor are they waiting in line behind you. None of the fans have the right to decide whose questions take priority. And, either way, the end result is the same. Mine are at the bottom of the list, so whether I post them now or when the queue is smaller a year or so from now is meaningless. Either way, the questions end up at almost the same spot.

"In principal you are right, but in the interest of all of us who visit the site I would've thought it would be smart to pace ourselves. Oh well, maybe we should all just flood the queue with all our questions."
There's no mass agreement among people about who and when and what should be asked. If a fandom has many people, then it follows that people are going to ask a lot of questions.

"Sorry if I'm pissing anyone off, I just seem to recall Greg saying to limit the questions asked when the queue was opened this last time."
I didn't recall him saying that, so that was never part of my consideration.

"And to think, there was once a time when you had only to wait a few days for an answer to your question. I hope these people all stick around for a couple years to hear the answers to their questions."
Maybe at the very beginning, when very few people visited Ask Greg. Don't pull a hissyfit because you can't have your questions answered now. The reason the queue got so big is because lots of people want their questions answered and Greg doesn't have the time to keep up. I'm willing to wait.

"It sorta bugs me that these questions are not so much FAQ as they are obvious. I mean asking "Was Demona close to any of her rookery siblings?" is a waste of Greg's time since Goliath was her rookery sibling and she was clearly close to him. Other questions like "What does Elisa think of Delilah?" I can just hear Greg answering with a "Not going into that at this time, esspecially with the comic out." Actually, a lot of these questions could be answered with "What do you think?" It wouldn't surprise me at all if the comic is in the middle of a Demona/Macbeth story arc when Greg reaches the questions and then I can almost guarantee he won't answer any of them. In fact, perhaps now that the comic is out and is continueing the storyline we should only ask questions about episodic details and things we've already seen. Asking about the future (or even flashbacks) is just asking for spoilers at this point. Just a thought."
Ookay... Now you're just being spiteful and trying to knock down the questions asked. First, Goliath was her mate, that leaves many siblings that she may or may not have had close relationships with. Someone asked once how close she was to Desdemona, and Greg answered something to the effect of "as close as sisters who thought they were closer than what they really were." I'm sure Greg can figure out that we all KNOW she was close to Goliath. Second, you can't predict how Greg is going to answer something. Many times he'll decide not to answer a question one time, and then answer that same question later. Third, just about any question can be answered with "What do you think?" It doesn't matter what I think, since I could be wrong. I want to know what Greg thinks. Fourth, how do you know that Greg won't answer any of the questions if he's in the middle of a Mac 'n D arc? How is Macbeth's relationship with Gillecomgain likely to be some massive spoiler? How do you even know he'll BE in the middle of a Mac 'n D arc? You don't. Finally... Limiting what can be asked to episodic details is just plain illogical and ruins the fun of asking questions in the first place. Going to Ask Greg would be pretty pointless if we were that limited in what we could ask.

"Anyway, I'm really not trying to be mean or anything. As I said, I don't care much and theres nothing we can do anyway. I just hope everyone doesn't start flooding the queue now just because one person did."
For someone that doesn't care much about it you sure are devoting a lot of time to looking for questions to nitpick.

_Greg Bishansky_
"Especially since some of those questions are in the queue, at least one obvious from the episodes themselves, and a few are just common sense answers."
I haven't read most of the queue, since it's massive and unorganized. I'd like to know which one was obvious from the episodes. And 'common sense' answers are only our conclusions, not fact.

"But, one reason why some of us are upset is because Greg specifically asked that ASK GREG not be flooded. Makhasu may have not technically done anything wrong, but what she did was still very selfish."
As I said above, I didn't recall Greg saying that. So I was not deliberately discarding Greg's wishes. Had I known, I would've limited the number substantially. There are people who've posted twenty and thirty questions at a time. Are they being selfish? A few of their posts add up to the same number I asked.

"I mean, take a look at this...
"Someone asked if Macbeth had ever been married to anyone other than Gruoch and Dominique, and you said "Maybe, but not often." Why not? Why didn't he get married more often?"
This is a fairly Common Sense answer. Why didn't Macbeth get married more often? Maybe he just didn't fall in love "more often". "
*rolls eyes* That's hardly a 'common sense' answer. Greg is the one that knows the reason, not us. You're just theorizing. Whatever conclusions WE come to are irrelevant. For all we know, Macbeth could've only had a thing for redheads and not considered any other women. I'm a Macbeth fan, so I'm curious about the guy's history. The guy has no living descendants, so over the course of over nine hundred years (post 1057) this guy probably had less than a handful of children, if any. I wanted to know his reasons from Greg Weisman himself, since any conclusion I or anyone else comes to is just opinion, not fact.

_Todd_
"What my main concern was (and still is) is my concern that at the rate that the queue is continuing to grow, Greg's doomed to remain at least two years behind and more. It's easy for the queue to grow by tens of questions in one night. But it shrinks at a much slower place, since Greg only answers a couple of questions a day at most (and some days, he isn't even able to log on to answer any questions at all)."
Then perhaps a new system should be put into place, limiting the number that can be submitted each day. I didn't do this maliciously, and if any of my questions have been answered before then you guys are free to delete them. Or, mayhaps, I could give a list of the thirty or so questions I want answered most and the others could be deleted. Again, whatever you, Gorebash, and Greg decide.

_The Sadistic Cow_
Thanks for sticking up for me in regards to some of the animosity. It's very much appreciated.

_Warcrafter_
"Well, in the queue, I noticed Greg skipped like 8 months of questions a few months ago. Perhaps he will do it again."
Ah, how delightful to know that people are just hoping that my questions get skipped. Makes me feel right at home.
Makhasu - [aknellthatsummonsthee@yahoo.com]
posted @ Mon, Jul 31, 2006 9:51:19 pm EDT from 66.74.220.146

Ok, this guy's post does get thrown out when Todd gets to it for breaking the rules: multiple topics = multiple posts. I counted at least 3 different topics not connected in that one post - "JACK-E-CHAN writes..".

When is the cut off day for submitting con journals?
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Mon, Jul 31, 2006 9:47:44 pm EDT from 71.30.135.236

The only helpful hint I can give to Mahkasu, or anyone in general, is don't be shy about asking questions here. I've done so on several occasions, and the people here who can navigate ASK GREG better than me (or at least know how to find what they're looking for) have been very helpful.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"In the song, 'She'll Be Comin' Round the Mountain When She Comes,' why do they announce so cheerfully that they intend to 'kill the old red rooster when she comes'? Is it some kind of ritual thing? Or is it that they just hate the old red rooster... and now they're just using the fact that she's comin' round the mountain as an excuse to kill it?"
posted @ Mon, Jul 31, 2006 8:26:14 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

Well, in the queue, I noticed Greg skipped like 8 months of questions a few months ago. Perhaps he will do it again.

Here's something interesting I found. While browseing through IMDB, I discovered that there is an upcomming film called "Hunter's Moon". Its supposed to be about aliens kidnapping humans for study. Well, there goes that theory.
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
Yay, I got the part. I play Willard in "The Crucible" at the Gallery Theatre
posted @ Mon, Jul 31, 2006 7:49:55 pm EDT from 69.234.2.149

Yow! I certainly hadn't expected to cause that much of a stir on the list by my post.

What my main concern was (and still is) is my concern that at the rate that the queue is continuing to grow, Greg's doomed to remain at least two years behind and more. It's easy for the queue to grow by tens of questions in one night. But it shrinks at a much slower place, since Greg only answers a couple of questions a day at most (and some days, he isn't even able to log on to answer any questions at all).
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Mon, Jul 31, 2006 7:11:33 pm EDT from 4.244.18.63

Greg B - Yes, I know, and like I said to Matt I don't agree with it. What bothered me was how people were being nasty to her. I don't agree or like her decision to do so, but I'm not being rude or snappish to her, because it isn't neccessary. As I also said, one can disagree with or dislike another's actions without being nasty about it.

I'm witholding judgement on the content of some of the questions. Some I think are worthwhile, some I don't find appealing for several reasons, but I, personally, don't feel like I have the right to judge the questions whose content I'm not a fan of. But that's just me. :)
The Sadistic Cow - [midnightfantasia [at] hotmail.com]
"Every day I smoke two hundred cigarettes and one hundred cigars and drink a bottle of whisky and three bottles of wine with dinner. And dinner is meat. RAW meat. The cook serves me an entire animal and I fight it bare-handed and tear off what I want and eat it and have the rest buried. In NEW JERSEY! For H.A.T.E.!" - Dirk Anger
posted @ Mon, Jul 31, 2006 7:03:02 pm EDT from 69.156.158.188

Either that or Macbeth didn't marry as often because he didn't want to deal with the pain of outliving all his spouses.
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"Welcome home." -Brooklyn, The Journey
posted @ Mon, Jul 31, 2006 6:55:18 pm EDT from 70.245.250.123

But, one reason why some of us are upset is because Greg specifically asked that ASK GREG not be flooded. Makhasu may have not technically done anything wrong, but what she did was still very selfish.

I mean, take a look at this...

"Someone asked if Macbeth had ever been married to anyone other than Gruoch and Dominique, and you said "Maybe, but not often." Why not? Why didn't he get married more often?"

This is a fairly Common Sense answer. Why didn't Macbeth get married more often? Maybe he just didn't fall in love "more often".
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Mon, Jul 31, 2006 6:51:55 pm EDT from 65.33.128.134

Matt - I'm not trying to be mean either. I'm just weird. :P ;)

"And to think, there was once a time when you had only to wait a few days for an answer to your question."

I wasn't around for that, so I was not aware that was how it used to be. My bad. 'Course, with the way things are these days... well, we already know how things are going as-is. @_@

"In fact, perhaps now that the comic is out and is continueing the storyline we should only ask questions about episodic details and things we've already seen. Asking about the future (or even flashbacks) is just asking for spoilers at this point. Just a thought."

Good point. Of course, I doubt that will stop people from asking; and besides, I doubt that Greg can or will cover *everything* that people have asked, or will ask. So in a way, it stands to reason that we should still be able to ask, in case he doesn't cover the question; any questions that will be covered, he can just say "Watch out for future issues" or somesuch. Though that would get annoying, too... though it's not as bad as some of the questions that have arisen.

"I just hope everyone doesn't start flooding the queue now just because one person did."

Yeah, now *that* worries me. It should be closed soon though, right? Hopefully no one else does, otherwise then things will be quite messy. o_O;
The Sadistic Cow - [midnightfantasia [at] hotmail.com]
"Every day I smoke two hundred cigarettes and one hundred cigars and drink a bottle of whisky and three bottles of wine with dinner. And dinner is meat. RAW meat. The cook serves me an entire animal and I fight it bare-handed and tear off what I want and eat it and have the rest buried. In NEW JERSEY! For H.A.T.E.!" - Dirk Anger
posted @ Mon, Jul 31, 2006 6:43:08 pm EDT from 69.156.158.188

And to think, there was once a time when you had only to wait a few days for an answer to your question. I hope these people all stick around for a couple years to hear the answers to their questions.

It sorta bugs me that these questions are not so much FAQ as they are obvious. I mean asking "Was Demona close to any of her rookery siblings?" is a waste of Greg's time since Goliath was her rookery sibling and she was clearly close to him. Other questions like "What does Elisa think of Delilah?" I can just hear Greg answering with a "Not going into that at this time, esspecially with the comic out." Actually, a lot of these questions could be answered with "What do you think?" It wouldn't surprise me at all if the comic is in the middle of a Demona/Macbeth story arc when Greg reaches the questions and then I can almost guarantee he won't answer any of them. In fact, perhaps now that the comic is out and is continueing the storyline we should only ask questions about episodic details and things we've already seen. Asking about the future (or even flashbacks) is just asking for spoilers at this point. Just a thought.

Of course, I will say that they are leaps and bounds above the "What is gargoyles?" "Where can I find pictures of..." "Help me do my homework." variety.

Anyway, I'm really not trying to be mean or anything. As I said, I don't care much and theres nothing we can do anyway. I just hope everyone doesn't start flooding the queue now just because one person did.
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"Welcome home." -Brooklyn, The Journey
posted @ Mon, Jul 31, 2006 6:22:38 pm EDT from 70.245.250.123

Matt> I agree that maybe it won't be a problem for Greg at all. At least, I'm hoping not.

Yes, I'm looking forward to the day when Greg will possibly be all caught up on the 2 years' worth of questions, and, yes, it's POSSIBLE that Makhasu slowed that down a bit, but to quote The Sadistic Cow, "What's done is done." Why make comments at/about Makhasu?

As long as no one else follows her example, it should nothing more then a minor inconvenience at Ask Greg.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Mon, Jul 31, 2006 6:04:12 pm EDT from 209.239.132.95

Greg B. - Oh, I don't deny it's annoying. Floods are always annoying. I just don't think that Makhasu deserves to be snapped at like that. It was kind of unwarranted, since, as you said, technically she didn't do anything wrong.

Matt - I highly doubt that she thinks the queue is "just for her". And I agree with most of what you said (except for that somewhat snarky bit about how we should all just flood the queue. That isn't what I meant. :P). I'm just saying, it's going to take the same amount of time to answer the questions *regardless* of when they are posted, so any thoughts of it going by any quicker are moot, because a) Greg W. doesn't have a lot of time to do it, b) there is and always will be *at least* one other person submitting questions, and c) those other people, no matter *who* it is, aren't going to wait like some of you do to ask your questions. So the queue will constantly be being added to, no matter what, thus ensuring it stays relatively large. (Though that's just my opinion.)

And yes, I do think that she probably should have limited her questions due to Greg's own request, though I also understand why she went and did it anyway. I personally don't agree with it, but I don't feel it was necessary to make rude comments like that to/about her. One can voice their displeasure with someone, without being nasty about it.
The Sadistic Cow - [midnightfantasia [at] hotmail.com]
"Every day I smoke two hundred cigarettes and one hundred cigars and drink a bottle of whisky and three bottles of wine with dinner. And dinner is meat. RAW meat. The cook serves me an entire animal and I fight it bare-handed and tear off what I want and eat it and have the rest buried. In NEW JERSEY! For H.A.T.E.!" - Dirk Anger
posted @ Mon, Jul 31, 2006 5:37:26 pm EDT from 69.156.158.188

Ah, flying into seizures of the sympathetic nervous system over the Ask Greg cue. Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose.
Whitbourne
posted @ Mon, Jul 31, 2006 5:31:03 pm EDT from 142.167.206.184

Greg did specifically request that questions be kept to a minimum. And, this was a flood. No rules were broken, and technially, nothing wrong was done. But, still it was very annoying.

Especially since some of those questions are in the queue, at least one obvious from the episodes themselves, and a few are just common sense answers.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Mon, Jul 31, 2006 5:11:06 pm EDT from 65.33.128.134

I keep a list of questions I'd love to Ask Greg, but the Queue is not just for me. Greg has a limited amount of time and the queue is overflowing with questions as it is. She didn't break any rules, no, but many of us are waiting to ask questions until the number in the queue gets much lower and now that will be even longer.

Honestly, I don't much care about it. In principal you are right, but in the interest of all of us who visit the site I would've thought it would be smart to pace ourselves. Oh well, maybe we should all just flood the queue with all our questions.

Whatever... I'm just happy they seem to be (for the most part) questions that are quick to answer with short answers. Hopefully Greg will manage to get through them quick.

Sorry if I'm pissing anyone off, I just seem to recall Greg saying to limit the questions asked when the queue was opened this last time.
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"Welcome home." -Brooklyn, The Journey
posted @ Mon, Jul 31, 2006 5:02:06 pm EDT from 70.245.250.123

Matt - "Yeah, I suppose he didn't break any rules, but still, there is such a thing as common decency, and I do believe Greg said to limit the questions asked while the queue is open."

Dude... I personally do not see how Makhasu's flood of questions violated "common decency". ASK GREG exists for the sole purpose of asking questions, yes? And they were legitimate questions, overall. And she did follow the rules. There are no rules, as far as I'm aware, that state you can only ask a certain number of questions at any given time, or even in the whole.

Ultimately, those questions would have been asked. What difference does it make whether it's done over time, or all at once? In the end, it will still take the same amount of time. Whether you branch it out over time or do it all at once, it honestly will take the same amount of time to answer them regardless of how one goes about asking them.

I can understand why some people would be irked about the sheer mass of questions suddenly tossed in there, and yes, Greg did request to limit the amount of questions, but snapping at Makhasu for it and getting annoyed with her doesn't help matters. What's done is done, it can't be changed, and that's that. And her reasons for doing it aren't just, "OMFG THE QUEUE'S OPEN HAW HAW HAW!!!1!1!" If that were the case, I'd be irritated; but since it's not, being snarky does nothing but make the "problem" worse.

It's a flood, yeah, but I don't think it warrants people snapping at her. o.O;;
The Sadistic Cow - [midnightfantasia [at] hotmail.com]
"Every day I smoke two hundred cigarettes and one hundred cigars and drink a bottle of whisky and three bottles of wine with dinner. And dinner is meat. RAW meat. The cook serves me an entire animal and I fight it bare-handed and tear off what I want and eat it and have the rest buried. In NEW JERSEY! For H.A.T.E.!" - Dirk Anger
posted @ Mon, Jul 31, 2006 4:23:34 pm EDT from 69.156.158.188

Umpteenth!
Well, there is a problem with submitting Gathering journals to the same queue that has fan questions.
Greg's responses to the journals tend to get understandably repetitive after a while, and frankly, a smigeon(sp?) boring, unless it was your post, and it makes you feel good that Greg's asking you to go to the Gathering in $Insert_Location in 20$Insert_Year. Greg can't help it, unless he wants to blather again, y'know ;-)
Maybe that *would* help.... >:-)}
JJ Gregarius
posted @ Mon, Jul 31, 2006 3:21:24 pm EDT from 206.57.93.104

First off, these weren't all thought up in an hour, nor do I have too much "free time." They've been accumulated gradually in a separate Word document over the last month or so. They've been submitted at once because the open submissions were to be closed at the end of July and probably won't be opened again for a LONG time. Yeah, there's a lot of questions, but that fact alone doesn't make them worthless. I'm not bored, I genuinely want to know the answers to these.

They were submitted individually because I didn't want 30 questions bumped because one was judged to be slightly against the rules.

Next, they're original and unanswered questions (yes, I searched for answers to almost all of them. If one was a repeat, it wasn't because I didn't look). These aren't the same repeats of "What is Gargoyles?" and "Where can I find pictures of so and so?"

I'd much rather read answers to questions that might lead to interesting revelations than wait through month after month of responses to Gathering journals and newbie questions (no offense, anyone). How often do we find out anything interesting on Ask Greg (excluding the episode rambles) anymore? I'm not telling Greg or anyone else how to run Ask Greg, but I DID post in accordance with the rules. There's no limit to the number that can be asked by any one person.

And no, this isn't some malicious plot to gunk up Ask Greg, regardless of what some people may think. If you add up the questions asked by Todd or other individuals over the years, the number is greater than these. These are the first I've ever asked.

By the way, I'm a She.
Makhasu - [aknellthatsummonsthee@yahoo.com]
posted @ Mon, Jul 31, 2006 2:08:05 pm EDT from 66.74.220.146

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