Comment Room Archive : Gargoyles : Station Eight

Due to recent video theft, I have grown very tired of running my site (www.sirens-grotto.com) only to see my hard work bastardized with its credits ripped off and another person adding their name to it. I'm sick of it. With free sites like YouTube it makes it even more worthless to me to stick with it, being its causing me so much aggrivation with video theft. Over a dozen of my videos have been stolen in the past 2 months, that I KNOW of. My newest thorn is this idiot: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=diePathologin He's read my posts, he's been one at least twice since I first posted and hasn't removed them. So pretty much, me and other vidders have been spamming the heck out of him. Mature, I know, but its just really annoyed me. From now on, all my videos will be posted here: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=sirengarg I'm making a bunch of Gargoyles videos, so be on the look out for them, I will post here when they get finished.
Siren - [Click my name for Hunter's Moon Trailer!]
posted @ Sun, Aug 13, 2006 11:59:27 pm EDT from 65.33.46.79

*L* you never know maybe angela is into that kind of stuff she likes to watch ;-P

Ok I will hush now with my pervy comments lol
Shara
posted @ Sun, Aug 13, 2006 9:12:50 pm EDT from 4.246.211.126

Shara> Angela would probably have been scarred for life, if that had happened and she'd seen it. :P
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Sun, Aug 13, 2006 9:10:04 pm EDT from 209.239.132.47

Shara: Uh, don't forget they weren't traveling alone. ( ;
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Time's short, your life's your own. But in the end, we are just dust and bones." -Guns N' Roses.
posted @ Sun, Aug 13, 2006 8:28:59 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

Hmmm now what where goliath and elisa doing on the skiff before it reached its destinations. *hears porn music play in the backround* :-P
Shara
posted @ Sun, Aug 13, 2006 8:10:05 pm EDT from 4.246.211.126

Yeah, we know. I'm saying that Goliath probably asked Renard to tell the Clan, Renard probably didn't take the initiative himself. Who would he know to contact?
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"The pen is mightier than the sword, and considerably easier to write with. " -Marty Feldman
posted @ Sun, Aug 13, 2006 6:56:53 pm EDT from 70.245.241.116

HoE> "I also think that in "Golem," Goliath probably asked Reynard if he'd notify the others where he, Bronx, and Elisa were, since at that point, I don't think they'd managed to make contact with anyone back in the States."

They did. Brooklyn even makes a reference ("But Halcyon Renard saw them in Prague...") to it in the 'Pendragon' episode.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Sun, Aug 13, 2006 6:47:32 pm EDT from 209.239.132.47

Ah, shit. ( ;
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Time's short, your life's your own. But in the end, we are just dust and bones." -Guns N' Roses.
posted @ Sun, Aug 13, 2006 5:47:03 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

Well, better that than MacBeth's name.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Time's short, your life's your own. But in the end, we are just dust and bones." -Guns N' Roses.
posted @ Sun, Aug 13, 2006 5:46:47 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

LOL, everyone is mispelling Renard's name ;)
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Sun, Aug 13, 2006 4:35:49 pm EDT from 65.33.128.134

Agreed, Goliath and Co. would not have accepted an lift home from Xanatos if he had asked, the point is, he didn't even offer.
And I'm sure they asked Renaud to send the message, I doubt he would know how to contact the rest of the Clan without instructions to talk to Matt about it.
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"The pen is mightier than the sword, and considerably easier to write with. " -Marty Feldman
posted @ Sun, Aug 13, 2006 3:51:11 pm EDT from 70.246.138.4

Matt: I think if Goliath and the travelers had been offered a ride home from Xanatos, they would have declined for the same reason they turned down Reynard's offer.

I also think that in "Golem," Goliath probably asked Reynard if he'd notify the others where he, Bronx, and Elisa were, since at that point, I don't think they'd managed to make contact with anyone back in the States.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"I bent my Wookiee!" -Ralph Wiggum
posted @ Sun, Aug 13, 2006 3:20:29 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

I wonder if the fact that Goliath and Co. really pissed off Xanatos in Arizona is the reason that not only did Xanatos not offer them a lift home, but also made no effort (as far as we know) to contact Talon or Brooklyn about seeing the Travelers in Arizona. It doesn't much matter though since I'm sure Peter and Beth Maza got the word back to Talon.
Its funny that so many of their adventures got back to Brook and the others. By the time Goliath and Co. returned to New York, the Clan knew they had been in Avalon, London, Prague, Nigeria, (probably) Arizona, and maybe a few other places.
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"The pen is mightier than the sword, and considerably easier to write with. " -Marty Feldman
posted @ Sun, Aug 13, 2006 2:47:33 pm EDT from 70.246.139.255

Todd: Funny. Your comments reminded me of Xanatos's little quip in "Cloud Fathers" when he's using a more direct approach to try and goad Coyote out of hiding. Trying something a Saturday morning villain would do was not what he had tried in the first place, but in the end, he went with it because he knew that it was the only way he could bait Coyote.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"It's my first real stab at cliched villainy. How am I doing so far?" -Xanatos.
posted @ Sun, Aug 13, 2006 1:00:26 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

I agree that more Manhattan-based stories would have been welcome. And I'm sure Xanatos could have found some way to use Goliath's absence to his advantage. If they'd just kept "The Price" back to the middle of the world tour and had Matt and perhaps Talon involved to make up the cast without Goliath and Elisa it would have been a lot of fun.
Ed
posted @ Sun, Aug 13, 2006 7:05:21 am EDT from 213.187.38.205

Maybe I phrased my comment wrong, but I would have still like to have seen more of how Xanatos would I've interacted with the clan with Goliath gone. The biggest thing that bugged me about the world tour period was that the focus didn't show enough of those left behind.
Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]
Remember the old Gargoyles comics!
posted @ Sun, Aug 13, 2006 5:18:15 am EDT from 69.54.209.12

This is when I wish we saw a littl more of what happened back in Manhattan during the World Tour. I keep thinking back to Xanatos's actions, reactions, and comments during "Kingdom." I can't remember the quote, but it put into my mind how I'm sure X kept the information about both Goliath AND Elisa's absence in the back of his mind. He may not have done anything with it, or if he did, it wasn't big, but Xanatos is the sort of guy to using things to his advantange and to do so to their maximum extent.
Asatira
posted @ Sat, Aug 12, 2006 11:31:06 pm EDT from 68.117.246.81

Todd> Good points, but just because WE can't think of a way that Xanatos could've taken advantage of Goliath's absence doesn't mean Xanatos couldn't. I think Brooklyn was wise to not want Xanatos to know about it, even if Xanatos could've helped Brooklyn to find Goliath and bring him home. At that point, Xanatos was not someone to be trusted by the Clan, he was an enemy whether he was out to get them or not. He had used them numerous times and enraveled them in his schemes before. Until they had a good reason to confront Xanatos, such as hard evidence, they shouldn't have charged in on the Eyrie.

I wonder if Xanatos made an effort to tell Brooklyn he had encountered Goliath and Elisa in Arizona? Not to mention Egypt, was Xanatos even aware they showed up there?
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"The pen is mightier than the sword, and considerably easier to write with. " -Marty Feldman
posted @ Sat, Aug 12, 2006 7:35:58 pm EDT from 70.253.189.176

HARVESTER - It just goes to show that sarcasm doesn't work very well in print.

The obvious problem with the issue of "How would Xanatos have taken advantage of Goliath's absence?" is the question "Take advantage of it to do what?" Xanatos's conflict with the gargoyles wasn't the same sort of thing as the conventional "super-villain" vs. "super-hero" conflict. Xanatos wasn't out to conquer Manhattan ("Future Tense" notwithstanding - and one of the biggest signs that Puck's nightmare was just that, in my opinion, *was* Xanatos acting like a cliched cartoon villain) or unleash the Crime Wave of the Century upon it. He wasn't making a serious effort to capture or kill the gargoyles (since he wouldn't get anything useful to himself out of it), and the gargoyles generally weren't hindering his plots - not deliberately, at least. (Their attitude towards these might have been summed up by Hudson in "The Price" - he didn't have any objection towards Xanatos using the Cauldron of Life to become immortal, just an objection towards being used as Xanatos's guinea pig in testing the Cauldron). Most of Xanatos's schemes were coming along reasonably well (except for obtaining immortality), and I suspect that the bulk of his machiavellian operations were being carried out so subtly that they weren't coming to the gargoyles' attention.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Sat, Aug 12, 2006 7:15:51 pm EDT from 4.245.17.146

If anything, I'd question Disney's profit motives. Here we have a property (Gargoyles) that Disney that has been sitting on for years and no plans to use it. Along comes the prospect of a comic book and Disney wants a lot of money upfront for somebody else to use that property. Disney has no incentative either way for the comic to sell or not sell, along as they get their money upfront. If Disney had set things up so that they get x percent of the profit from the sells of the comic book, yea, they would want the comic to sell well. Once SLG recovers enough money to pay for the licensing fee, they'll make more money per comic. My question is if the comic is very sucessfull, will Disney raise the cost of the licensing fee?
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Sat, Aug 12, 2006 7:09:28 pm EDT from 63.232.248.249

*Starts passing around the "calm down juice"*
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"The pen is mightier than the sword, and considerably easier to write with. " -Marty Feldman
posted @ Sat, Aug 12, 2006 7:05:42 pm EDT from 70.253.189.176

Hmmm, looks like I forgot to put a wink on the end of that.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"At least the killing part appeals to you, doesn't it?" -Durandal.
posted @ Sat, Aug 12, 2006 2:58:25 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

HoE> No offense, but that's stupidity, not paranoia. Why would Disney want to throw a monkey wrench into things? Why would they sabotage something they are making money on, and really have no chance to lose money on. If the comic does badly, SLG loses money, they still have to pay Disney for the license. Comic gets cancelled, they don't have to pay Disney for it anymore.

Don't look for conspiracies where none exist.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Sat, Aug 12, 2006 2:38:55 pm EDT from 65.33.128.134

Because I'm a paranoid bastard, I'm starting to wonder if Disney's got an inside man at Slave Labor that keeps throwing a wrench in things. Of course, I'm one to talk. I don't trust corporations, and I work for a subsidiary of a very large one.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"At least the killing part appeals to you, doesn't it?" -Durandal.
posted @ Sat, Aug 12, 2006 2:28:56 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

I'm more depressed than I'd have expected that the second issue of the comic has been postponed. I assume that means that the third issue won't be out until November?

I know there was some speculation (I don't know if Greg said anything or if it was just wishful thinking on the part of fans) that the third issue might include the Halloween double date. That made perfect sense when the third issue was coming out in October, but it's a little less perfect if the issue comes out in November. Does anyone know whether or not the delay has changed Greg's plans? (Or if the Halloween date was ever really planned for the third issue at all?)
Kaylle - [kaylle at ladyavalon dot com]
GargoylesDVD.com
posted @ Sat, Aug 12, 2006 2:06:40 pm EDT from 70.60.15.159

Vinnie - <I would have like to have seen more of how Xanatos took advantage of Goliath's disappearance.> You don't get it, do you? Even Greg Weisman has said there was no way that Xanatos could have taken advantage of the Goliath being absent from Manhattan. On the other hand, Goliath's disappearance explained his appearances elsewhere in the world. Of course, the question remains would Xanatos offered Goliath a trip home.

www.gargoyles-fans.org has been updated again. A top 15 list by me was added.

Here's the list of stories that lack synopsis:

Season 2:

* The Hound of Ulster (under construction, Renee)
* Bushido (under construction, Renee)
* Ill Met by Moonlight (under construction, HoE)
* Possession

Season 3:

* The Dying Of The Light (under construction, D. Taina)
* Seeing Isn't Believing (under construction, D. Taina)
* Angels In The Night (under construction, D. Taina)
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Sat, Aug 12, 2006 1:05:12 pm EDT from 162.40.59.147

DAN, we don't know what the numbers, and you know what, I doubt Disney will tell us.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Sat, Aug 12, 2006 12:09:49 pm EDT from 65.33.128.134

Hi everyone, long time no chat, been busy lately. whoooo that's a load off. Well anyway has the figures for season 2, volume 1 come in yet? I heard that it did very bad and they might not come out the volume 2, is this true?
Dan
posted @ Sat, Aug 12, 2006 11:53:45 am EDT from 68.42.25.193

I just had a thought. I've often wondered what Owen thinks about some of Xanatos's schemes. Anubis and Coyote are his kin, after all. Maybe he just has to deal with it because Xanatos chose Owen, and that's one of the things that goes with it.

And I've also often wondered if Xanatos was doing anything else in Manhattan while Goliath was absent.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"At least the killing part appeals to you, doesn't it?" -Durandal.
posted @ Sat, Aug 12, 2006 9:46:17 am EDT from 69.174.3.196

Speaking of Xanatos, what do u think happened when Owen disappeared in "the Mirror?" Dude, I wonder what Davy looked like as a gargoyle, and if he figured out that he was actually human. Shame they couldn't have fit him into the episode anywhere.
Twiggess
posted @ Sat, Aug 12, 2006 8:20:29 am EDT from 68.178.46.160

I would have like to have seen more of how Xanatos took advantage of Goliath's disappearance.
Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]
Remember the old Gargoyles comics!
posted @ Sat, Aug 12, 2006 4:56:18 am EDT from 69.54.209.125

For any gargie artists.

We have a collection of character pictures on this link. We use this for our pencilists to get refrence's of characters on the show. Feel free to use it if your looking for a certin character. Will add more characters as more of them are added to web-comic.

http://www.ka-blamo.com/gargs/ref/
Shara
posted @ Sat, Aug 12, 2006 2:50:32 am EDT from 4.246.213.147

I keep feeling I'm forgetting another World Tour episode Greg had considered... anyone have any idea? Wasn't there another episode idea that never got made?

Anyway, given that I generally love the Coldstone episodes, I would've liked to see the Himalayas episode as well, though seeing new Clans is always fun, and the Xanadu Clan and their strong link to the gargoyle beasts would've been awesome to see.
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"The pen is mightier than the sword, and considerably easier to write with. " -Marty Feldman
posted @ Sat, Aug 12, 2006 2:24:20 am EDT from 70.246.146.15

THe Himalayas. I always liked Coldstone, and it would have meant another familiar character appearing during the World Tour.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Sat, Aug 12, 2006 12:47:00 am EDT from 65.33.128.134

i would have to say Xanadu
sho-sho - [bigmon15@verizon.net]
WHAT???? I cant hear u over goliath's yelling , u better run.
posted @ Sat, Aug 12, 2006 12:23:33 am EDT from 71.255.59.150

Okay, I'll give it a try:

Of the possible other World Tour locations that were never made into an episode, which one would you want to have seen most and why?

Heres a list of the ones I can think of, there may be others:
-Himalayas. Coldstone, Yeti legends, etc.
-Xanadu, China. Visit the Xanadu Clan and give Bronx another chance to interact with many other gargoyle beasts.
-Pukhan, Korea. Encounter the Pukhan Clan and learn about their unique protection of poetic justice.
-Something else? Another idea? Something I've forgotten?
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"The pen is mightier than the sword, and considerably easier to write with. " -Marty Feldman
posted @ Fri, Aug 11, 2006 9:00:58 pm EDT from 70.246.154.250

Sweet news, Wingless! Now if we can just get Disney back on track with releasing the rest of "Gargoyles" season 2, everything will be good Disney TV DVD wise.
Demonskrye
Bouncing here and there and everywhere
posted @ Fri, Aug 11, 2006 8:58:12 pm EDT from 209.6.214.28

It's official, Gummi Bears IS coming to DVD November 14th along with DuckTales
http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/newsitem.cfm?NewsID=6250
and Chip & Dale Rescue Rangers
http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/newsitem.cfm?NewsID=6249
Second seasons.

Both the DuckTales & Chip & Dale sets will have the Pilots absent from the first volumes.

Some nice news. Start saving your money now.
The links include cover art BTW
Wingless
posted @ Fri, Aug 11, 2006 7:50:22 pm EDT from 74.105.128.170

The most likely reason why the room keeps on dying is that a lot of people may be away on vacation (it is summer, after all) and away from the Internet.

Or maybe we just need to come up with more involving topics.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Fri, Aug 11, 2006 6:55:47 pm EDT from 4.244.212.185

THIS ROOM KEEPS DYING. WHERE IS EVERYBODY!!!!!!!! THERE SHOULD BE ATLEAST ONE POST PER HOUR!!!
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
I have a WoW character who looks like and is named "Demona" on the Onyxia server
posted @ Fri, Aug 11, 2006 5:42:17 pm EDT from 69.231.235.171

It depends on whether or not it was a national news cast. As for Luke and Leia, the spell only affects Manhattan (and the present.) Some movie filmed back in the 70's wouldn't have been affected. Although, knowing Puck, he could have just messed with it for fun. Then again, he was a bit preoccupied keeping Demona's temper (somewhat) under control, so he might have been too distracted to think of it.
Twiggess
posted @ Fri, Aug 11, 2006 10:03:11 am EDT from 68.178.46.160

HofEyes> Well lets say that a New Yorker was watching the nightly news when Puck casts his spell. The NYorker would become a gargoyle, but the people on the news would not unless they were in New York too, so any clips of people outside the city would show humans. That would be weird to see, right? And what if someone was watching a movie. I mean if someone was watching Star Wars, when Puck casts his spell did Darth Vader and Princess Leia and everyone become gargoyles too? And As for watching home movies, it would be weird to watch one and suddenly you are looking at yourself and loved ones but everyone is a different species.
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"The pen is mightier than the sword, and considerably easier to write with. " -Marty Feldman
posted @ Fri, Aug 11, 2006 8:15:46 am EDT from 70.246.148.130

Patrick> Being a fan of both 'Friends' and 'Gargoyles', I'm intrigued.

Any knowledge of where I can find this fic? :)
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Fri, Aug 11, 2006 7:00:49 am EDT from 209.239.132.123

Matt: What do you mean by television broadcasts?
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"At least the killing part appeals to you, doesn't it?" -Durandal.
posted @ Fri, Aug 11, 2006 6:32:46 am EDT from 69.174.3.196

My Disney Store had copies of "Haunted Mansion" and "Gargoyles" and mentioned "Wonderland" and "Tron" as comming out. They said the gargoyles comic was selling well.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
that is all I will say.
posted @ Thu, Aug 10, 2006 11:04:38 pm EDT from 198.53.28.99

I thought I was the one killing the room with my lame posts.
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
I have a WoW character who looks like and is named "Demona" on the Onyxia server
posted @ Thu, Aug 10, 2006 10:41:06 pm EDT from 69.231.235.171

Geeez, I keep killing the Room...
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"The pen is mightier than the sword, and considerably easier to write with. " -Marty Feldman
posted @ Thu, Aug 10, 2006 10:20:36 pm EDT from 70.255.41.209

Greg B> Did Greg ever say anything about television broadcasts coming in and out? What about people watching movies or worse, home videos?!
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"The pen is mightier than the sword, and considerably easier to write with. " -Marty Feldman
posted @ Thu, Aug 10, 2006 5:36:57 pm EDT from 70.246.145.224

Todd: I think it was decided that since Coldstone is not really a gargoyle, per se, but reanimated stone and metal, the spell probably had no effect on him. I'm pretty sure Puck's spell was very specfic concerning humans and gargoyles.

We had similar chats about "The Mirror" in here once (I only remember because I think I started it), I just forgot when.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Confucius say: show-off always shown up in showdown... in bed!" -Me, being juvenile during my lunch hour today. Though to the restaurant's credit, the chicken looked like chicken.
posted @ Thu, Aug 10, 2006 5:20:19 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

Woo Woo! My Con Journal from Montreal finally made it up into Ask Greg. And he remembers the Banana Splits CD I gave him. (I actually think there's some pretty fun and cool music on the thing for what it is) Baffles me why No company has reissued that thing properly on CD. Oh Well. Greg's got a one of a kind rarity at least. (Those who don't know the significance of the CD will have to read the journal to find out). muahahahah!
Wingless
posted @ Thu, Aug 10, 2006 2:37:54 pm EDT from 74.105.128.170

PATRICK> According to Greg, yes, people changed back in forth as they entered and left Manhattan.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Thu, Aug 10, 2006 2:06:43 pm EDT from 65.33.128.134

I remember reading a fic many moons ago that showed the cast of "Friends" during "The Mirror."

What about all the traffic crossing into and out of Manhattan during Puck's little romp? Did people change back and forth as they crossed the bridges and went through the tunnels?

316 days until The Gathering 2007 in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2007]
posted @ Thu, Aug 10, 2006 12:47:22 pm EDT from 24.106.128.24

Yea, the GFW has been updated again. I guess I need to type up my summary of the Green now.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Thu, Aug 10, 2006 10:51:01 am EDT from 71.29.69.96

Of course, we don't even know if the Mutates were in Manhattan at the time (we've never been told anything about their movements between "Metamorphosis" and "The Cage"). It's entirely possible that they were temporarily hiding somewhere in - say - a remote part of upstate New York at the time, and only came back later on to the Eyrie Building.

For that matter, I'd almost be tempted to wonder what happened with Coldstone (then dormant in the clock tower) and Thailog (lurking secretly in Castle Wyvern, assuming that he'd left Sevarius's lab by then), except that I assume that Puck's spell to turn Goliath's clan into humans was specifically aimed at them alone (which it most likely was), so I doubt that those two would have been included.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Thu, Aug 10, 2006 7:46:11 am EDT from 4.244.214.245

..........sure is quiet....I guess I'll just start a new topic.....um...ok...in "The Mirror" when puck turned all the humans to gargoyles and goliath and the clan to humans, what do you think happened to Talon/Derek and the mutates. Did they turn back to humans or stay the same since they were technically human. Not sure if this has been talked about before.
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
I have a WoW character who looks like and is named "Demona" on the Onyxia server
posted @ Thu, Aug 10, 2006 2:46:54 am EDT from 69.231.253.143

I think we've all noticed the glass thing...

Anyway, just to add some info, I did a little searching on the Arthur/Gargoyles subject and came up with these questions from the archives:

Question received on Mon, March 26, 2001 06:53:52 AM
Todd Jensen writes...
You mentioned that the London gargoyles (some of whom look like lions) were already in Britain during King Arthur's reign. In the Gargoyles Universe, does this explain the occasional presence of lions in Arthurian romances - i.e., the lions mentioned in Malory et al weren't really lions?

Greg responds...
Potentially. Have to take every event on a case by case basis.

Response recorded on May 08, 2001

-------------------------------------------------

Question received on Wed, May 02, 2001 12:53:53 PM
Vashkoda writes...
1) Who originally taught Griff's ancestors the "rookery poem" about Excalibur?

2a) Did the gargoyles that Arthur met during the years he was king also resemble lions, unicorns and griffons? b) Had he previously met any gargoyles of "Scottish stock" before he was introduced to Goliath and the Avalon clan?

3a) Was Arthur ever referred to simply as "Pendragon"? b) In the Gargoyles universe, how did the name "Pendragon" originate? In other words, what were the circumstances that led up to Arthur's father receiving that name? c) I'm asking the obvious, but what symbol and/or heraldic beast would be featured on Arthur's coat of arms?

Greg responds...
1. The three.

2a. Many did.

2b. Yes.

3a. Yes.

3b. Not going into that now.

3c. Look at the character. But Arthur was a Pendragon and the Bear of Britain.

Response recorded on June 27, 2001

--------------------------------------------------------

Question received on Sat, October 06, 2001 02:53:55 PM
DPH writes...
Since I read the archive and didn't see any mention of this, I'd thought I ask these two questions:

1)Did Arthur Pendragon have an alliance with the London clan before he was taken to Avalon?

2)If so, did any written/non-oral records of that alliance surive to 1996?

Greg responds...
1. Gargoyles played a major roll in Arthurian "History" in the gargoyles universe. I'm not ready to be more specific at this time.

2. Well, there's the Scrolls of Merlin just for starters. And I'd imagine that the London Clan managed to preserve some cool things.

Response recorded on August 16, 2002

------------------
Hope that is helpful.
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"The pen is mightier than the sword, and considerably easier to write with. " -Marty Feldman
posted @ Wed, Aug 9, 2006 8:02:41 pm EDT from 70.246.128.150

HoE> You noticed that about Mace and the glass too, eh? :)
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Wed, Aug 9, 2006 7:41:45 pm EDT from 209.239.132.139

Speaking of Matt and the Illuminati, I once had the speculation that the Illuminati might have had something to do with his being made the head of the Gargoyle Task Force. The notion behind it is this: the Illuminati figure that one of the best ways to get people to sign up for the Quarrymen is to convince them that the police aren't going to do anything (or at most, they'll only make a token response) about the gargoyles, so that it's up to them to protect themselves and their families (under the notion that one of the best ways to encourage someone to vigilantism is to convince him or her that the police aren't going to lift a finger to help him/her, so there's nothing left but to take the law into your own hands). Matt's pro-gargoyle, so if he gets put in charge of the Gargoyle Task Force, he'll hold it back from actually capturing or killing Goliath and his clan, and the Illuminati would then work towards seeing to it that people notice how "defanged" it is. (In fact, we have precisely that taking place in "Avalon Part Three" with the public's response to Matt's inactivity outside St. Damien's Cathedral, culminating in the cry "If the cops won't do something, we will!") The particularly fun part of that scheme (from the writing point of view) is what happens when/if Matt realizes what's going on: if he continues to carefully restrain the Gargoyle Task Force, he'll be playing into the Illuminati's hands, but if he gets more active, the gargoyles will wind up captured (and if the Illuminati really do have as much of a control over the government as he believes or claims, once the police and city government capture the clan, it's going to be only a matter of time before the Illuminati will have them in turn). So no matter what he does, the Illuminati win and the gargoyles lose.

The one problem with this theory is that in the "original version" of "Hunter's Moon Part Three" (from the radio play at the 2001 Gathering), Captain Chavez is the one who commissions Matt to head the Gargoyle Task Force, and I assume that she isn't one of the Illuminati (or if she is, that's definitely going to change forever the way that we see her!). Even so, I suspect that the Illuminati would be pleased with Matt having that job.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Wed, Aug 9, 2006 7:13:57 pm EDT from 4.244.211.159

Sorry for the double post, but I forgot to add: one of the things my brother and I always liked about that episode is that Mace somehow managed to avoid gutting himself when he threw himself onto the ledge (and the jagged hole in the one-way mirror) in the third act. It was either breakaway glass, or else those must be some damn good drugs the Society supplies its members with.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Damn Scots! They ruined Scotland!" -Groundskeeper Willie.
posted @ Wed, Aug 9, 2006 6:05:04 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

Well, Mace also said that if a guest escaped the Cabal, the Society wouldn't look favorably upon that. So maybe they were upset over Mace tarnishing their hotel's pristine reputation.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Damn Scots! They ruined Scotland!" -Groundskeeper Willie.
posted @ Wed, Aug 9, 2006 6:01:50 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

"JJ: I think Greg said in his ramble for "Revelations" that the Society left Mace to his fate because his sentimental attachment to his old flame had helped to expose the existence of the Society to an outside."

Well flora(?) was dead in the ground anyway and wasn't a threat. I don't think that the illumianti would off someone just becuase they visit the grave of a love one, I think they wanted to get rid of mace because he was out living his usefulness. Plus Mace was getting a little bit too cocky. I think the illumianti knew that Matt was going to find out about them one way or another, and I think they knew that Matt was too much of a goody-goody type to betray Goliath and Elisa. So everything ended up playing in their hands
kjay - [tigonesskay@yahoo.com]
posted @ Wed, Aug 9, 2006 11:56:14 am EDT from 69.112.127.60

JJ: I think Greg said in his ramble for "Revelations" that the Society left Mace to his fate because his sentimental attachment to his old flame had helped to expose the existence of the Society to an outsider. Now, whether or not disposing of Mace was part of their plan after Mace and Bluestone's first meeting, who can say?

Todd: What makes that scene in "The Journey" even more interesting is that Xanatos had to know that Duval probably doesn't call people lower down on the chain very often. And he tells Owen to tell Duval that he'll call back. Should be interesting to see what, if any, consequences this has in the comic.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Damn Scots! They ruined Scotland!" -Groundskeeper Willie.
posted @ Wed, Aug 9, 2006 6:46:09 am EDT from 69.174.3.196

...............what my luck. My play got canceled..AGAIN. That's the second one in a row. How am I supposed to become a successful actor if all my gigs get canceled. :_(
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
I have a WoW character who looks like and is named "Demona"
posted @ Wed, Aug 9, 2006 2:42:01 am EDT from 69.231.231.187

Greg>> That's why I said I >had< the idea.
And yes, I know Malone died. What I was wondering was whether that was part of the plan for the Bluestone incident from the start.
JJ Gregarius
posted @ Tue, Aug 8, 2006 10:16:28 pm EDT from 12.78.55.82

JJ> Except the Illuminati is run by the last Fisher King. We know it's not run by gargoyles.

Also, they let Mace Malone starve to death in there.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Tue, Aug 8, 2006 9:56:38 pm EDT from 65.33.128.134

Illuminati, Bluestone, & the Hotel Cabal>> I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought that was a test for Matt.
Then again, I had the idea that the Illuminati were more like the Foundation and Second Foundation of Issac Asimov; heck, I wouldn't have blinked if it turned out that the Illuminati were run by gargoyles as a millennia-long attempt to recreate some form of civilization fit for surviving gargoyles amongst the furless apes.

On another note, anyone think that perhaps the aforementioned scheme was also a way to eliminate a member who had grown inconvenient?
JJ Gregarius
posted @ Tue, Aug 8, 2006 9:51:26 pm EDT from 12.78.55.82

Hey, Gorebash. I was looking through some folders of the tgs website and found some (if not all) of the code for the 1998 tgs cr. Looking through tgs cr history, it shows the tgs cr has always been hosted on s8 and I'm curious if you know how that code ended up on the tgs server.

Also, I found this page called "TGS Staff Utilities" (link left out on purpose - if you know the link, don't share it) and I'm curious if anybody hear knows the user id and password for that page. If you do know the user id and password, please email me. If you don't know my email address and know the user id and password for that page, let me know by posting. Please don't post that user id and password.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity
posted @ Tue, Aug 8, 2006 4:45:17 pm EDT from 161.31.67.131

I finally recieved the Gargoyles comic today that I ordered from amazon a week ago but I still didn't get the one I ordered from SLG a month ago. I going to contact them and see what the problem is. As I read through the comic it seems like the artwork was done by 2 different people, but I still liked it. I hope they still continue to put Elisa in different outfits from time to time.
kjay - [tigonesskay@yahoo.com]
posted @ Tue, Aug 8, 2006 3:14:38 pm EDT from 69.112.127.60

Technically speaking, "England" isn't the most appropriate geographical term for dealing with King Arthur. The English in his day were the Saxons and Angles who were then invading Britain and whom Arthur was at war with, and who only took over much of the island after Arthur was taken away to Avalon, resulting in its being renamed "England".

Also, "England" and "Britain" aren't synonymous (any more than, say, "the United States" and "North America" are synonymous - and you'd better not make that mistake in this comment room, folks, since we have several proud Canadians here!). England is just one part of the island of Britain, the other two parts being Wales and Scotland (and the Arthurian legend was stronger in Wales and southern Scotland originally than it was in England).

I think that there were gargoyles in Arthurian Britain, certainly; Arthur seems used to them in the episodes that he appeared in, and the fact that the London clan had a riddle about Excalibur passed down through it from one generation to the next as a nursery rhyme certainly suggests that their ancestors had some connection with Arthur's court. (They could also explain some of those mentions of lions in the Arthurian romances; in particular, there are at least two cases in the romances - one of them told about Percival himself - about a knight who comes to a lion's rescue, resulting in the lion becoming a loyal friend and ally to the knight from then on. I have my own suspicions as to what the true nature of those lions were in the Gargoyles Universe.) But I suspect that the destruction of most of those clans took place during the Anglo-Saxon period (though I wouldn't put it past Mordred to have carried out a few massacres of his own - he might even have used Arthur's alliance with gargoyles as a propaganda motif during his revolt, a bit like Canmore during his invasion of Scotland).

We don't know for certain, of course, just how many or few years before 1057 the big gargoyle massacres in England that Bodhe alludes to took place. At the time, Edward the Confessor had been King of England for fifteen years; he was a very pious man, but it's possible that it was the sort of piety that could have led him to mistake gargoyles for demons and believe that slaughtering them was a good act, cleansing the world of evil. Even if the massacres took place before he became King of England, I certainly suspect that Canmore could have used Macbeth's alliance with the gargoyles as a way of getting Edward's permission to lead an English army into Scotland. (Of course, another thing that would have played into Canmore's hands was this; Edward had gone through something similar to Canmore's exile in his youth, when, after the death of his father Ethelred the Unready, Canute of Denmark took over the English throne, leading to Edward having to go abroad to Normandy and stay there until Canute and his sons were dead. Canmore could have appealed to the similarity between their cases.)

As for how directly Duval is involved in the Illuminati's pursuit of the gargoyles, I don't know - but I still find it noteworthy that when Xanatos gets that phone call from him in "The Journey", the indication is that Duval wants to speak to Xanatos himself, as opposed to getting somebody somewhere in the Illuminati hierarchy between himself and Xanatos to do it. Remember that Xanatos isn't a high-ranking member; if the person at the very top wants to speak to him directly, you know that it's got to be important.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Tue, Aug 8, 2006 7:51:42 am EDT from 4.244.208.142

This makes the Illuminati's actions more interesting. Percival was in Arthur's court, so he knows that gargoyles aren't a threat. It lends some small amount of credence to Todd's theory about the Quarrymen, but at the same time, one has to wonder just how much control Percival really has.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
Owen: "Is it wise to keep the Illuminati waiting?"
posted @ Tue, Aug 8, 2006 6:40:48 am EDT from 69.174.3.196

I tend to think of Duval as the ultimate multi-tasker juggling both nobel and sinister aspects of the Illuminati. I doubt that each circle of members is either completely good or evil and that many members have their own agendas.
It would be stupid to think of the Illuminati as completely evil since you don't really find anything completely evil on the show.
Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]
Remember the old Gargoyles comics!
posted @ Tue, Aug 8, 2006 5:15:41 am EDT from 69.54.209.107

HoE> I believe Greg did say their was a clan at Camelot.

And while I don't doubt that Mordred massacred many of them, Bodhe said the English rid their land of gargoyles "years ago" not "centuries ago"
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Mon, Aug 7, 2006 9:38:40 pm EDT from 65.33.128.134

Todd: One thing troubles me about that. I guess first I should ask if anyone here knows if Greg has ever said in his Master Plan if there were any gargoyles in Arthur's kingdom. I'm assuming that the purge of gargoyles from England (with the exception of those whose descendants we saw in "MIA") happened after the sixth century. If there were gargoyles in England back then, has Greg ever said what role they played?

I'm assuming Arthur knows a thing or two about gargoyles before Elisa woke him. In "Avalon," he didn't seem too surprised to see a room full of them. He seemed more confused by Elisa's comments about Demona and Macbeth.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"No! We have no names! We have no past, we have no future, and even if we did, it wouldn't really be ours! You and I are just copies of our father, Big Boss!" -Liquid Snake.
posted @ Mon, Aug 7, 2006 9:29:28 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

I do hope Robbins figures it out too. I almost wonder if he already has. He seems to be an open minded person. I doubt he would have any prejudice against Hudson.

I am still praying for Part 2 to come to DVD. And September for the comic? :( Aw well, better a month late then not at all
Siren - [Click my name for Hunter's Moon Trailer!]
posted @ Mon, Aug 7, 2006 8:41:09 pm EDT from 65.33.46.79

Vinnie> Jackal was not the only problem with 'Broadway Goes To Hollywood'. There were other factors as well.

Whil the story itself was decent, the execution was botched. Fox spinging out a mecha-suit seemed a little 'superhero'-ish to me, and was about as realistic as her character butchering in 'Ransom'. The animation was a little flaky. Not to mention that I swear Broadway's "Well, first I'd like to talk about my clan..." line was recycled at the end.

Still a decent episode, though. It just had its' flaws.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Mon, Aug 7, 2006 7:19:03 pm EDT from 209.239.132.33

Do we know for certain that the Illuminati really want the gargoyles? Their plan in "Revelations" might have been a big misdirection tactic (say, the real plan was to test Matt to see whether he'd sacrifice his personal goals to save Goliath), the same way a lot of Xanatos's plans involving the gargoyles turned out to have a different goal than capturing them.

Since the Illuminati presumably know about the gargoyles from Xanatos, they most likely also know that they didn't preserve their usefulness as servants for too long - Elisa quickly alerted Goliath to Xanatos's real agenda. Xanatos obviously can't dupe them a second time into stealing for him, and I doubt that even the Illuminati could do the same. (In fact, Xanatos stopped making a serious effort to capture the gargoyles early on and changed his goal to creating his own gargoyles - the Steel Clan, the Mutates, Thailog - instead.)

Alternately, the Illuminati could simply want to neutralize the gargoyles (say, they believe that their patrolling Manhattan could hinder some of their objectives); we honestly don't know.

And I've said this before, but I still can't help wondering - Duval may be the Fisher King, but does that necessarily mean that he (or the Society in general) still has the Holy Grail? Unless, of course, the Grail takes a more tolerant view towards funding anti-gargoyle hate groups, deals with organized crime, and running a hotel filled with sanity-destroying death traps than it does towards committing adultery with Queen Guinevere.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Mon, Aug 7, 2006 7:12:51 pm EDT from 4.244.18.231

Still way too soon to say what the Illuminati want. But, it's not the Grail. We know that they have the Grail already.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Mon, Aug 7, 2006 4:47:40 pm EDT from 65.33.128.134

Then again, just because the Illuminati has a use for the gargoyles doesn't mean that they necessarily have to support anti-gargoyle prejudice.

Gargoyles have a lot of abilities that humans don't, and in other ways they are the equals of humans (ie, intelligence wise). The Hotel Cabal proved just how cunning, strong, and fast Goliath really was.

The question becomes, do the Illuminati want to use gargoyles as "stealth operatives," do they want to destroy gargoyles, do they want to enslave gargoyles, or do they want gargoyle agents who can do anything humans can do, except better (and not during daylight hours?)

If the Illuminati want something (say, the Holy grail maybe) and they think a gargoyle would be likely to succeed in getting it where a human would be likely to fail...that's a good reason to try to recruit/blackmail/otherwise acquire a gargoyle agent.
Stormy - [decepticoncommand@hotmail.com]
posted @ Mon, Aug 7, 2006 4:13:48 pm EDT from 142.167.219.238

Somehow I doubt the Illuminati are out to discredit anti-gargoyle prejudice. "Revelations" seemed to show that they had plans for Goliath (or any other gargoyle).
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Mon, Aug 7, 2006 9:15:33 am EDT from 66.192.104.10

HARVESTER - I've sometimes played around with the notion that maybe the Illuminati helped Castaway set up the Quarrymen for the precise purpose of discrediting anti-gargoyle prejudice. Think about it for a moment. What better way of achieving that goal than ensure that the head of the leading anti-gargoyle movement is someone so filled with rage and irrational hatred towards the gargoyles that he'll wind up recklessly endangering the public - with the further possibility of the gargoyles coming to the rescue of the humans who had been endangered by Castaway's actions, thus giving them the opportunity to see what gargoyles really were like?

Seriously, I am still curious to see whether the Illuminati's real motives in helping Castaway set up the Quarrymen were about the gargoyles, or whether that was just a subterfuge and they had an entirely different purpose for the Quarrymen all along (kind of like those schemes of Xanatos that appeared to be about capturing the gargoyles and turned out to have a different objective, such as getting Fox out of prison).
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Mon, Aug 7, 2006 7:28:27 am EDT from 4.244.215.128

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