Comment Room Archive : Gargoyles : Station Eight

As a side-note, I might add that I find it amusing that the first story in the comic after the adaptation of "The Journey" would be about Xanatos throwing a masquerade ball at the castle for Halloween, because one of the first TGS stories had him doing the same thing. (Of course, since the Hunter's Moon takes place in October, and the Hunter's Moon of 1996 was especially late in October, it probably isn't so surprising.)

I wonder if Xanatos and Fox's costumes would be their medieval garments from "Vows"?

One big advantage of having Morgan being Elisa's date (though that would only apply to the cartoon, not the comic); Keith David and Salli Richardson could *really* earn their paychecks for that story, if that was the case!
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Sun, Sep 3, 2006 6:23:51 pm EDT from 4.244.209.2

****A cheetah bolts into the Comment Room, screeches to a stop and morphs into Blaise.**** Figured I'd rush in to clear up a little misconception.

DOUBLE DATE> I wasn't offering criticism with my thoughts about it being too early for the "Double Date" story (and I apologize if I gave that impression). I was just giving my reasons for why I think the third issue won't BE that particular story.
I'm only saying, that with the way Greg built things up over two seasons of the television show, it doesn't seem likely that he's going to suddenly steamroll through the next stage in the development of the G&E relationship between issue #2 ("The Journey") and issue #3.
I was just very surprised that, when we hear that issue #3 is going to be a Halloween story, everyone immediately assumes that means it's also the "Double Date" story. I'm sure Greg already has some great Halloween-themed stories that are not the "Double Date" story (that's just the only story of his that we KNOW will be associated with Halloween).
Still, I am not Greg, and only he (and the other folk working on the comic) would know what the FIRST CANON GARGOYLES STORY IN 10 YEARS will be about. And whatever it is, I am looking forward to it.

Well, there's my little clarification. Once again, I apologize if I gave the wrong impression. At any rate, I'm looking forward to the future. Until then, farewell. ****Blaise morphs into an eagle and flies out the window.****
Blaise
"Well, it's nothing very special. Try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations."--Monty Python's Meaning of Life
posted @ Sun, Sep 3, 2006 2:36:22 pm EDT from 4.233.123.89

YouTube thinks they are cute....

NOW it works! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koz5C9DSlAA
Siren - [Click my name for Hunter's Moon Trailer!]
posted @ Sun, Sep 3, 2006 1:49:27 pm EDT from 70.121.211.76

*walks away, leaving YouTube to drown in its own blood* Last night, I uploaded this to YouTube...normally, its a 5-10 minute process. Its been 10 HOURS. So I tried again, after 1 hour, I'm sick of waiting. I put it on Putfile*grumblegrowlsnarl*

Once YouTube decides to get its rear in gear, it will be up. *sizzle*
And then I will replace this link with the YouTube one.

http://media.putfile.com/Broken-57

I wrote this last night, under the impression, I was going to be able to post it last night...
So while I am trying to finish about 6 other Garg videos, this one came to mind and ironically enough, I finished it before the others.
The video is about the complicated relationships with Elisa and Goliath and between them. Kinda a Goliath/Elisa, Goliath/Demona, Elisa/Jason video. It's pretty much all covered here.
Goliath knows he is falling in love with Elisa. But his memories of Demona breaking his heart, haunt him. Demona too, is broken. Elisa is confused by her feelings for Goliath and Jason, but of course, ultimatly chooses Goliath.
There is really no deffinitive storyline for this one. It simply shows how Goliath, Elisa, Jason, and Demona are all broken. It starts with Goliath/Elisa and ends with Goliath/Demona. I'm tired and feel a cold coming on, so maybe that's where the fault lies. Though I still like how it came out, I guess I'm just as confused as they are. Damn cold meds. LOL
Siren - [Click my name for Hunter's Moon Trailer!]
posted @ Sun, Sep 3, 2006 1:47:07 pm EDT from 70.121.211.76

We also need to keep in mind that Greg W has said that dating isn't very natural for gargoyles. The concept of dating at all is going to be weird for Goliath. So, I can imagine that going on a date with Delilah with Elisa and Demona around is going to be extremely awkward for Goliath on so many levels. From what I understand, the whole dating idea is mostly Elisa's and Goliath goes along with it reluctantly to appease her. I think the decision to be together in the end is going to be much more difficult for Elisa. I hope she goes out with Jason myself. I think that would make the decision harder for her since Jason is someone who she could really be with. Morgan is just a close friend. More brotherly, like Gabriel and Angela.
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"The pen is mightier than the sword, and considerably easier to write with. " -Marty Feldman
posted @ Sun, Sep 3, 2006 11:49:37 am EDT from 70.245.252.135

I know what people are getting at about it feeling quite early for the DD story, but thinking about it, it makes a lot of sense.

1. It makes sense for the characters. Goliath and Elisa will need to talk about this stuff fairly quickly. They've kissed, they've got a lot to deal with, but they haven't made that real yet by actually talking together about it. I can well see that they'd talk each other down when grim reality intrudes -- and it's quite possible that we'll see some of that within the context of the first story.

2. It makes sense chronologically to have the Hallowe'en story following on from the Hunter's Moon storyline. Otherwise, it would have to wait a year -- or for some contrived costume ball which might call attention to the Xanatos/gargoyles link.

3. It makes sense structurally to begin with Goliath and Elisa and to work out from there. It would consolidate their position as the leads and give us more opportunities to see the background cast introduced through their eyes. If we headed straight into, say, a Broadway story, there might not be the same sense of continuity from #1-2. A party is also a good way to bring together a large sweep of characters and build them up gradually.

4. It gives a good opportunity to introduce Demona, one of the most popular, recognisable and therefore, frankly, saleable characters. If anyone remembers anything about 'Gargoyles' from telly, they're likely to remember Demona. And even if they don't "mean-looking red-haired gargoyle chick" probably means more to your average comic browser than Xanatos or Brooklyn or Bronx, great as those characters are. I hope that will make for a strong cover, and possibly strong sales.

Plus, as has already been said, Greg Weisman is a clever cookie. And this isn't really any different from the original series where several similarly-themed episodes often followed consecutively. (The Xanatos engagement and wedding; Demona and Macbeth being taken and then used by the Weird Sisters; Oberon's return, Puck's reintroduction and then "The Gathering", etc.).

I'll be curious to see whether Elisa's date is Morgan or Jason. I'd like to see Morgan because I can imagine that he's the person Elisa would be more likely to bump into and randomly ask out -- and because Morgan's so much fun anyway, especially since it would add an edge of humour to the double-date scenes that he doesn't know Elisa knows the gargoyles, and now that the gargoyle secret is out they could use more members of the force in the loop. Anyway, it seems like there's too much water under the bridge for Elisa/Jason to ever be a serious attempt to move on.

But I guess Jason is more likely, more useful to have established in terms of building up the Castaway story arc and the fallout from 'Hunter's Moon', and more likely to create the same uncomfortable feeling in Goliath that Delilah probably causes in Elisa.
Ed
"It's important that everyone remain calm." -- Matt Bluestone, "Nightwatch"
posted @ Sun, Sep 3, 2006 10:14:12 am EDT from 213.187.38.205

Spen-Demona...sigh, my fave character of all time (Goliath can't have her, she's mine now! Mahahaha!). As for Angela...ewww, shades of Star Wars, lol. Good point Spen! Though I thought Elisa was finally over her denial for the big purple dude, oh well (I'm gonna go nuts if they don't just admit their love or call it off altogether soon! The suspense is killing me! and sadly, I'm not immortal...yet, hehehe)
Dragomir
Dragomir
posted @ Sun, Sep 3, 2006 10:11:17 am EDT from 65.96.147.211

Twiggess> I agree with your ramble on The Reckoning.

However, considering that it's part of the 2nd half of Season 2, and S2 V2 is not out on DVD yet (and I stress the word YET), no, it's not edited. Literally.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Sun, Sep 3, 2006 8:06:02 am EDT from 209.239.132.130

Dragomir : Well, considering that the only alternatives are Demona and Angela...
Spen
"Why do people always use sports metephors when they want you to do somthing stupid?" - David Swaine
posted @ Sun, Sep 3, 2006 4:15:39 am EDT from 216.248.119.208

I can't picture Goliath on a date with Delilah, its just too weird! I mean, she's a clone born of Demona's and Elisa's DNA, so that is bound to be confusing! I can picture Delilah bringing her own date, like Claw for instance or another clone, but with Goliath (he'd feel weird around a person cloned from his first love and his new one). Weren't the gargs all freaked out by the clones anyway, and thats why they chose to live in the Labyrinth and start their own lives? I can DEFINATELY picture Demona going medieval on Goliath if she saw the two of them together (him with Delilah would be worse than him with elisa in her eyes, it would be like Thailog all over again).
Isn't it also possible that Delilah may end up choosing to rejoin Thailog once he resurfaces? She was programmed to be his concubine after all, and seemed to be the one most upset over his "demise." I can definately see her going back to him, or starting some schemes of her own maybe (that would be interesting, especially if they did a scenario in which Demona and Elisa had to work together to save Angela from Delilah's evils scheme!). Probably won't happen, lol, but would make a pretty good fanfic idea at least...Anywho, I'm sure it will be a great story whatever ends up happening (I just hope it doesn't turn out hokey like the Goliath Chronicles).

P.S. this is gonna sound like a lame question to you hardcore fans out there, but do female gargoyles wear lipstick? Or are their lips naturally a different color pigment from the rest of their bodies? I've never pictured gargs as being too hung up on primping and what not. A lame question, but one I'de like to have answered if possible, thankyou! have a great night!
Dragomir
Dragomir
posted @ Sun, Sep 3, 2006 3:24:04 am EDT from 65.96.147.211

Ok, this has completely nothing to do with anything else we've been discussing here but...

Good news: I FINALLY SAW "THE RECKONING!!!!!"

Bad news: Wait a sec... something's missing here... *gasps in realization* THE BASTARDS, THEY'VE EDITED OUT "KINKY!!!!!" Were I not at a friends house I would totally be trashing the place in outrage! That was a groundbreaking piece of animation and they just CENSOR it??? What kind of kid too young to hear that word is going to be up at 1:30 in the morning???? *storms out of the room to find Mr. Carter's cousin, Malone.*
Aw, crap. I left my mace at home :( *takes deep, calming breath* Oh, well. It's not taken out in the DVDs, is it?
Twiggess
"I can work with that"- Fang
posted @ Sun, Sep 3, 2006 2:31:35 am EDT from 70.105.49.119

And if this is supposed to be the double date that was in the making for ten years, that reaffirms their feelings and the fact they need to make their relationship work after going their separate ways for a time and even dating other people, then it's too early, especially right after the Journey. But if it's simply a re-work of an old idea to fit his new storyline, then fine. And I never said I don't have faith in Greg; I trust him implicitly to give me a great story and that's why I can wait for it.
The Barracuda
posted @ Sat, Sep 2, 2006 11:16:22 pm EDT from 204.209.150.46

BARRACUDA> And I think Greg knows what he's doing storywise. He hasn't let us down yet, and no one else knows this story or these characters as well as he does. If he thinks now is the time for the Double Date, then it is.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Sat, Sep 2, 2006 10:55:22 pm EDT from 67.8.234.210

It's WAY too soon for the double date, considering Goliath and Elisa are pretty much a couple at the end of the Journey. Why would they suddenly start dating other people in less than a few days afterwards? We don't even know if Greg's going to do the proposed double date in the first place anyways (I'm actually hoping he tosses most of his Master Plan out anyways, and gives us something completely new), so it's too soon for speculation until we have the comic in our hands. And I can be patient for delays, but December is a little long to wait...
The Barracuda
posted @ Sat, Sep 2, 2006 10:14:14 pm EDT from 204.209.150.46

I agree, I don't see why some are saying it's too soon for the "Double Date" story. I think Greg knows what he's doing with the stories, and I believe "The Journey" takes place in late October anyway. So Halloween is definitely coming up.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Sat, Sep 2, 2006 9:04:33 pm EDT from 67.8.234.210

Actually JJ, that was what I had in mind too....that it would show a corona when they were "electric" and not show one when they weren't, so a viewer could know, if they saw a mutate touching someone, whether the person was supposed to be getting a shock or not. Because a shock isn't visible ordinarily (though the reaction to it is, if it's strong enough.)

Still, that is a sad idea, if the mutates coudln't touch anyone without inadvertently shocking them. I don't think it's true from what I've seen of the Gargoyles universe though.

***

As for Double Date, etc...

Too much negative speculation before the comic comes out might create negative buzz and damage sales. So, I don't want to be throwing around possibilities like "it might be too soon for the Double Date story to work" before the story even comes out. Once it's come out and we've read it, then if I think DD happened too soon, or could have been done better, I'll say so, but right now, there's no point in getting worked up over a possibility that may never come to pass. Particularly when too much of it could hurt the comic. And personally, I'm going to put my trust in Greg, since his record up to now has been pretty darned good.
Stormy - [decepticoncommand@hotmail.com]
posted @ Sat, Sep 2, 2006 8:54:29 pm EDT from 142.167.207.118

Jennifer L. Anderson> I know it's been a while since you last posted, but if you ever get this, could you tell me and B@CF if you have sent out the shirts yet. We keep trying to send you e-mails but I don't think they are getting through.

Patrick> Is there anything special you did when you forwarded the post before?

Also, I never knew this place had a floor. I always thought it was a bottomless room full of words
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
Are you ready for this playa?- Keith David (Saint's Row)
posted @ Sat, Sep 2, 2006 7:24:30 pm EDT from 69.231.228.219

Matt-re Stone Floor-really, with all the large gargoyle nails that go skidding across the floors in this place? I think Gorebash thought ahead when he put in the floor. Maybe marble or concrete, but certainly not linoleum ^_~.
Wingless
posted @ Sat, Sep 2, 2006 5:11:01 pm EDT from 74.105.128.170

I didn't realize we had a stone floor in here... I always thought it was linoleum...
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"The pen is mightier than the sword, and considerably easier to write with. " -Marty Feldman
posted @ Sat, Sep 2, 2006 4:10:04 pm EDT from 70.245.252.135

****One of the large stone blocks making up the floor of the Comment Room rises. Eventually, pushing the block before himself, Blaise climbs out of the hole in the floor and replaces the block. He dusts off his hands and heaves a sigh of relief.**** My first day off in nearly two weeks. I am going to enjoy this weekend. But first, a few comments....

ED> Good points on the variety of views already displayed in "The Journey" (AKA, "Nightwatch").
Actually, now that I think about it, the Jogger seems the least concerned about the whole thing--he actually seems more curious, like you said. In the animated episode, he even seemed eager at the prospect of capturing (and dissecting) a gargoyle.

COMIC ISSUE #3> I'm not going to dwell on the delay (it's regrettable, that's all), but I do have a question:
Does anyone else think it's WAY too early for the "Double Date" story?
I mean, as we know it, that's not supposed to take place until after Goliath and Elisa have actually talked about their relationship and decided that it could never work. They're not there yet--they're still in that euphoric state where each realizes the other shares the same feelings. In fact, Greg has said that Issue #3 will be the first major shake-up in their relationship (i.e., the first step towards the eventual "Double Date").
Also, in order for the "Double Date" story to really work, Delilah, Jason and/or Morgan have to be properly reintroduced. I don't think there will be enough time before the third issue for Greg to do that.

QUARRYMEN> Just wanted to air some of my own thoughts on this.
I think that while the initial panic will be a factor for many people joining the group, it won't necessarily be the thing that keeps them in. In his little speech, Castaway stressed the idea of never being alone. There could develop, among the "ordinary citizens" subset of the Quarrymen at least, a sort of camaraderie. While they are not as popular as they once were, social clubs do still find some few members to this day. The hoods and hammers are one face of the Quarrymen, of course, but I do not think they would be the only face.
Could you imagine a Quarrymen picnic? How about a group of Quarrymen going bowling together?
And then, as has already been noted, each Quarryman (or woman) could very well have their own reasons for going after the gargs. Fear and the desire to protect loved ones (as well as revenge in some cases, and paychecks in others) have already been mentioned, but there may even be others.
Those that believe gargoyles are mindless animals might drop out when it's proven they are not...or they might redouble their efforts (denial can be a very powerful thing). I'm sure there are those who will view the gargoyles as sentient but uniformly evil monsters as well, just based on appearances. An offshoot of that group might be, I think, people who don't care about them being good or evil...they'll just want the gargoyles exterminated on the grounds that they are sentient and not human (i.e., only humans have the right to be sentient).
Then again, there might just be a whole lot of people who like to hurt things.

That's it from me until I can think up something else to say. Until then, farewell. ****Blaise rolls up his sleeves and starts climbing the wall. He reaches the ceiling, removes one of the large stones there, and climbs up and out through the hole, replacing the stone as he leaves.****
Blaise
"Well, it's nothing very special. Try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations."--Monty Python's Meaning of Life
posted @ Sat, Sep 2, 2006 1:24:04 pm EDT from 4.232.33.251

HARVESTER - I don't think that Greg would ever handle the subject of Jesus in "Gargoyles" - way too much controversy there. The closest that he'd ever get to it would be bringing the Holy Grail into "Pendragon" once Arthur goes in quest of it - and you can handle the Grail as an Arthurian object like Excalibur or the Round Table without mentioning its links to Jesus.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Sat, Sep 2, 2006 7:54:56 am EDT from 4.244.211.36

It's a shame about the December date since it means I probably won't get the first issue until February or so.

DPH: It depends how you like your conspiracy theories. In most countries, and I assume in America too, votes aren't all that private with voter registry and electronic equilment. You can sway votes in subtle ways: breaking or covering up scandals at appropriate times, having the news media cover topics favourable to you. They probably wouldn't sway the votes on election day -- they wouldn't need to if they did their homework. (Fun Ask Greg question, btw.)

Todd: Ha! I enjoyed your 'effigy' gag.

I think the gargoyles being edited isn't too much of a worry (because let's face it, Xanatos has the resources to do the thing properly, and even if he didn't there's blogs and podcasting and other ways to get the message out besides the mainstream media). The big problem would be if they invite a gargoyle to do a television interview -- and that gargoyle is Demona or Thailog!

Greg W: Thanks for the clarification. 24 pages is cool. :)
Ed
"It's important that everyone remain calm." -- Matt Bluestone, "Nightwatch"
posted @ Sat, Sep 2, 2006 3:54:16 am EDT from 213.187.38.205

Greg B: Can we then assume that, in the Gargoyles universe, Elvis IS alive? I mean, all things are true. Also, has Greg ever indicated if Christ was the offspring of a union between members of the Second and Third races? ( ;
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"I don't want to change the world. I just want to watch it go by."
posted @ Fri, Sep 1, 2006 10:37:41 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

TODD> Well, we've seen that happen before, haven't we ;)
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Fri, Sep 1, 2006 9:58:45 pm EDT from 67.8.234.210

BISHANSKY - "Unfortunately I see some people ignoring your first post just so they can keep shouting."

Not necessarily. Maybe some obsessed "Star Wars" fan will make such a big protest about your reference to George Lucas in the sentence above that everyone here forgets about the Quarrymen and starts arguing over the Star Wars prequel trilogy instead. :)
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Fri, Sep 1, 2006 9:42:37 pm EDT from 4.244.208.25

Greg W> *L*

I look forward to the second comic im sure it will be great.
Shara
posted @ Fri, Sep 1, 2006 9:38:30 pm EDT from 4.245.123.254

GREG> There's keeping you honest and then there's trashing the story without seeing it. Unfortunately, I've been seeing a lot of that. I think, for some reason, people are still thinking of the Goliath Chronicles.

I for one am taking the wait and see approach. And you know I don't mind keeping you honest. Just so you don't go the way of George Lucas ;)

Unfortunately, I see some people ignoring your first post just so they can keep shouting.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Fri, Sep 1, 2006 9:19:08 pm EDT from 67.8.234.210

Matt - Always a first time. Particularly if I'm placed on some kind of pedestal. People tend to fall off those. But I guess with this crowd, I don't have to worry. Everyone here seems to love to keep me honest. Joy. ;P
Greg Weisman
posted @ Fri, Sep 1, 2006 8:37:19 pm EDT from 72.25.64.98

Thanks for stopping by Greg. And I don't think anyone here, regardless of their thoughts on certain characters, groups or plots, thinks that you will write something that sucks. You've never let us down yet.
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"The pen is mightier than the sword, and considerably easier to write with. " -Marty Feldman
posted @ Fri, Sep 1, 2006 8:21:31 pm EDT from 70.245.252.135

Todd > If CBS can't keep it a secret from rival media outlets when they doctor a publicity photo of Katie Couric to make her look thinner, how long do you suppose anyone would be able to keep that kind of interview editting under wraps? I'd wager it'd be hours at best before whichever network is responsible is facing a bigger scandal than the one that left mud all over Dan Rather's face a while back.
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2007]
posted @ Fri, Sep 1, 2006 8:07:34 pm EDT from 65.43.176.8

Just stopping by -- briefly.

Couple things...

1. The comic book was always going to be 24 story pages an issue. The first issue had 6 extra pages as a bonus, cuz... it was the first issue, and we wanted to offer you a bit of a premium. If that leads to disappointment for issues #2 and up, well, no good deed goes unpunished.

2. As I've stated many times, I don't believe in monolithic groups. Never seen one. Can't wrap my head around the idea. Call it a failure of imagination. What that means in terms of any collection of individuals in the comic book, from the Clan to the GTF to the Illuminati to the Quarrymen to the general public is just something we'll have to explore together. I hope you all will at least give me the opportunity to disappoint you and not write off the storyline before you've actually seen the execution of it. It may suck. But it may not. You never know.
Greg Weisman
posted @ Fri, Sep 1, 2006 8:07:03 pm EDT from 72.25.64.98

Yeah, humans are nuts.
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"The pen is mightier than the sword, and considerably easier to write with. " -Marty Feldman
posted @ Fri, Sep 1, 2006 7:22:31 pm EDT from 70.245.252.135

MATT - I wonder what Demona's going to say about the "Some humans want to have sex with gargoyles" part.

Speaking of which, Elisa's got all the more reason to keep her connection with the clan secret now - once the public find out about her relationship with Goliath, how long is it going to be before the Daily Tattler sends someone over to ask her such questions as "So what does Goliath wear under his loincloth?"?
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Fri, Sep 1, 2006 7:20:14 pm EDT from 4.244.18.60

*looks over the comments of disappointment about the comic delays *

At least this time we don't have a lot of comments along the lines of "This is all David Hedgecock's fault! Let's burn him in effigy!" "I agree, only let's leave out the 'in effigy' part!"

Yes, it might seem far-fetched at first that people in these times would mistake the gargoyles for demons - but then again, Goliath and Co. do have a lot of physical features that are commonly associated with demons in fantasy and religious art, and they turn to stone in the daytime (and being rendered powerless in the daytime is a common weakness of supernatural evil creatures in legend). When the people who believe that the gargoyles are simply some weird new species of animal confront the ones who believe that they're demons, the latter will most likely respond with something along the lines of "If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...."

MATT - Of course, the gargoyles had better make certain that they find an honest interviewer. Just imagine this scenario: they get somebody to interview them and go to the studio to explain all about themselves. The interviewer thanks them, and then, once they leave, has the tape edited to make the gargoyles look like rampaging monsters (on the grounds that gargoyles acting with savage violence will get bigger ratings than gargoyles acting quietly), ending with some deliberate video trickery to make it look as if the gargoyles are coming towards him while screaming, "No! Keep away from me! Don't - aauggghhh!" Goliath and the others had probably better do their interview live.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Fri, Sep 1, 2006 7:16:54 pm EDT from 4.244.18.60

It wouldn't surprise me if religious groups start popping up (both in New York and elsewhere) after Hunter's Moon. Some worshipping the gargoyles and some cursing them as demons. I think the gargoyles will be surprised at just how much variety the answers to the gargoyle question will have. People wanting to have sex with gargoyles. People wanting to enslave the gargoyles. People wanting to breed the gargoyles. People wanting to put gargoyles in a zoo. The creationists will find a way to show that they somehow back up their beliefs and those backing evolution will do the same thing. Every political party will figure out a stance on the gargoyle issue and the card carrying party members will debate it like crazy. You are going to get every sorta reaction you can think of. So, I have no doubt there will be those who feel it is a moral duty to destroy (or worship) the gargoyles. Though I doubt either worshippers or exterminators will be the majority. Most people are likely to be somewhere in the middle.
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"The pen is mightier than the sword, and considerably easier to write with. " -Marty Feldman
posted @ Fri, Sep 1, 2006 7:11:42 pm EDT from 70.245.252.135

PATRICK> <<Todd > You make me chuckle the way you say the phrase "moral duty" as if there's a large segment of the population out there who are zealous enough about their religion to seriously believe that demons and other supernatual creatures really exist.>>

Oh, there are people out there that zealous. I was watching this documentary on the History Channel about people who literally believe they're possessed by demons and attend these mega churches for exorcisms. And not just one or two, I'm talking hundreds.

Hell, there is a huge population of people who believe that Jesus will come back if a temple is built in the West Bank, and are trying to make that happen. Hell, our President is a believer.

And then there are people who believe in all sorts of weird crap. Like alien abductions, that Elvis is still alive.

You overestimate the intelligence of the common man.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Fri, Sep 1, 2006 6:48:39 pm EDT from 67.8.234.210

Patrick> Religious people can believe anything. I know many people who already believe in angels and demons and that is without even seeing a video of a gargoyle gliding about.
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"The pen is mightier than the sword, and considerably easier to write with. " -Marty Feldman
posted @ Fri, Sep 1, 2006 6:30:19 pm EDT from 70.245.252.135

Patrick : More then twice.
Spen
"Why do people always use sports metephors when they want you to do somthing stupid?" - David Swaine
posted @ Fri, Sep 1, 2006 6:18:43 pm EDT from 216.248.119.208

Something ain't right when it takes until December to see the third issue of a bi-monthly periodical that began in June. At least now I know what to tell the cheapskates in my family to get me for Christmas. :P

Farhad > Will you throw in an order of nouns if I get some adjectives, too?

DPH > We've already seen the candidate with fewer votes win the most powerful office in the nation. Twice.

Todd > You make me chuckle the way you say the phrase "moral duty" as if there's a large segment of the population out there who are zealous enough about their religion to seriously believe that demons and other supernatual creatures really exist.

294 days left until The Gathering 2007 in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2007]
"Damn you, Loch Ness Monster, I ain't givin' you no tree-fiddy!" - Chef's dad, "South Park"
posted @ Fri, Sep 1, 2006 6:15:24 pm EDT from 65.43.176.8

I discovered today that my town has a comic store.. it was well hidden away! Out of curiosity I looked for issue 1, it was behind Archie... Needless to say when I left I put Gargs in a well sighted area :)
faytefire - [dragondreamer@comcast.net]
posted @ Fri, Sep 1, 2006 5:45:39 pm EDT from 71.234.169.135

FARHAD SOLEIMANINIA> *eyebrow*

Um, what was that? Some spambot who found the wrong room?

Shara> Issue #2 covers more of it.

Greg B.> That's exactly what I thought. December.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Fri, Sep 1, 2006 5:00:34 pm EDT from 209.239.132.62

Im actully looking forward to the second issue of the comic due to the fact that the first one just kind of covered story and plotline that I had already seen on the goliath chronicles etc..... Hehe yes i mentioned the evil goliath chronicles, ;-P
Shara
posted @ Fri, Sep 1, 2006 4:17:14 pm EDT from 4.245.121.111

Jennifer DeGuzman posted on the Comic Book Resources forum that #3 has been pushed back to December.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Fri, Sep 1, 2006 3:22:32 pm EDT from 67.8.234.210

FOR ORDERING YOUR ADVERB PLEASE LEAVE YOUR COMPANY NAME AND YOUR CONTACT NUMBER WE WILL CONTACT YOU AS SOON AS POSSIBLE
FARHAD SOLEIMANINIA - [SOLEIMANINIA@GMAIL.COM]
CICOOFILM ADVERTISING
posted @ Fri, Sep 1, 2006 3:09:26 pm EDT from 81.151.149.121

We still don't know what is causing the delay in Issue 2. If it is something like a printing problem or distribution than it could come out this month AND Issue 3 could be out in November. I know i'm being optimistic here, but the fact is, we don't know much at this point.
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"The pen is mightier than the sword, and considerably easier to write with. " -Marty Feldman
posted @ Fri, Sep 1, 2006 2:57:18 pm EDT from 70.245.252.135

dph_of_rules> "On another note, I noticed the slg website says issue #3 is due in November. I don't want to sound pestimistic, but if it takes them to October to get issue #2 out, what do you think the odds of issue #3 coming out this year are?"

*poofs out of lurk mode*

Forgive me for sounding idealistic, but I'd like to think it's still a possibility. If #2 comes out in October (hopefully in time for my 24th b-day. :P) then, unless there's another delay (God, I hope not), then #3 should be out in December.

I liked your rant on the Quarrymen, BTW.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Fri, Sep 1, 2006 2:50:12 pm EDT from 209.239.132.224

Whitbourne - <Likewise the Illuminati; they're boring if they're all powerful. I'd actually prefer to see them as a somewhat pathetic Elks Club rip off> Let's define all-powerfull with a list of what they can't do:
1)rig an election so that a candidate, coming into voting day, shows 10% of the voters would vote for him/her and that person ends up winning.
2)know what everybody in NYC ate for breakfast yesterday.
3)directly control the outcome of every election in the state of Arkansas

I believe they would be near-all-powerfull and near-all-knowing. Being near all powerfull does not mean they would actually use all their power. For example, I would see they are constantly monitoring the internet so that it would be impossible for a story exposing them to be around for more than 10-15 minutes before somebody high up in the chain of command knows about it. Near all knowing means they don't know everything, but have the resources at their disposal to find out anything they wanted to know, on a moment's notice. Also, it means they aren't caught off-guard by any major scientific breakthrough. I would also say hypothetically, they're working on a master plan to bring the world to a certain point. Basically, for the most part, we're being manipulated into going the direction they want us to go, through allowing things to happen and not to happen. I also believe that supporting an extremist organization such as the quarrymen serves their purpose well.

On another note, I noticed the slg website says issue #3 is due in November. I don't want to sound pestimistic, but if it takes them to October to get issue #2 out, what do you think the odds of issue #3 coming out this year are?
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Fri, Sep 1, 2006 2:34:59 pm EDT from 71.30.131.226

Stormy>> One extra point. When I said the mutates should shock victims that they touch, I meant that if they want to eletrocute someone, they should have to touch them*, not that they would electrocute everyone they touch.

Your interpretation does have a certain pathos to it, however.

*or be in contact with a conductor that is also in contact with the victim.
JJ Gregarius
posted @ Fri, Sep 1, 2006 2:25:54 pm EDT from 12.78.61.81

I think the real issue for all those who want them captured is just information. Yes, protecting the public is probably another prioroty, but at this point there are certainly people who are not even sure if they need to be protected from the gargoyles. Most people don't think gargoyles are sentient in Nightwatch, so it's not like they are gonna invite the gargoyles to speak on their behalf. Most people think they are some strange kind of weird animal or maybe a genetic experiment that got loose or aliens or something. I hate to say it, but had the Gargoyles Universe been the real world I would probably tend to agree with Margot Yale. I think they, or at least one of them, would need to be captured to discover if they are a threat. Of course, as soon as the authorities had caught one and heard it talk (assuming they didn't catch Bronx) that would change the entire issue. Once they had established a dialogue, if they were at all rational, they would make attempts to talk to each other and to the public.
If I were Goliath I would realize that I needed to make it clear that gargoyles are sentient and not a threat. I'd try to get on tv to say just such a thing. Right now the humans have no gargoyle information and what humans don't understand they fear, and what they fear they often seek to destroy.
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"The pen is mightier than the sword, and considerably easier to write with. " -Marty Feldman
posted @ Fri, Sep 1, 2006 9:50:11 am EDT from 70.245.252.135

PATRICK - The big problem with relocating the gargoyles is - where would you relocate them to? Nobody knows anything at present about their "natural habitat". (Margot seemed more in favor of simply incarcerating them rather than shipping them out to a wildlife preserve.)

Also, I suspect that a lot of the people who are in favor of killing the gargoyles believe them to be not natural animals, but some sort of demonic creatures (given their appearance and turning to stone in the daytime), which it would be their moral duty to destroy (probably with an attitude of "Did St. George send the dragon off to a wildlife preserve? Did Theseus send the Minotaur off to the Athens Zoo?"). They probably see what they're doing as more like Van Helsing and his associates staking Dracula and his fellow vampires than like genocide.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Fri, Sep 1, 2006 7:57:20 am EDT from 4.244.215.63

JJ: I suppose they could always show an electric corona when the mutate touched someone... Still, I think you're right in the "Throwing lightning" being a comic convention, which I would say is because it's more visually dramatic.
Stormy - [decepticoncommand@hotmail.com]
posted @ Fri, Sep 1, 2006 7:26:58 am EDT from 142.167.212.189

on a slightly different note..

I just noticed (not sure if this is the first time they did this,) that Golem has a scene where the Renard-possessed Golem throws Angela against a wall.followed by a very slow moving Max Leow.. eesh,talk about clumsy editing.. I thought the only eps that were edited from Avalon Tour-Hunters Moon was in Sentinel where one of Elisa's lines was cut and the Iron Harpoon shot at Oberon.. *humph*
Starlioness
posted @ Fri, Sep 1, 2006 6:26:59 am EDT from 71.212.12.233

Stormy>> You don't need characters to "throw" the charge in order to show it; think about your electric eels.

It's just a super-hero convention, having characters that can throw energy beams from their arms and hands. Greg W. comes from comic books. That's just gonna be his taste in storytelling, and it happens to be at odds with mine on occasion.
JJ Gregarius
posted @ Fri, Sep 1, 2006 1:05:46 am EDT from 12.78.61.48

I don't think "The Journey" is remotely monolithic to start with though, and it's still a minority of characters who are associated with the Quarrymen. Not remotely. These are the human reactions to the gargoyle issue from people who aren't close to the clan (Elisa, Matt, Xanatos, Owen, Fox).

The Jogger: Thinks they're animals, wants them studied.
Travis: Just reportin' the news.
Art: Thinks they're violent animals, will shoot if they come near him or his wife.
Chavez: A case to be investigated.
Sarah: She's afraid for her kids WITH GOOD REASON. She's seen them TALK TO HER KIDS, and she's seen first-hand that they're extremely violent. On the evidence she's got, the Quarrymen appear to be very much the lesser of two evils.
Vinnie: The schmuck in the crossfire of the gargoyles' battles for 2 years... but he still quickly realises Castaway's a fruit basket.
Banquo: Doing a job for the Quarrymen out of sadism.
Fleance: Doing a job for the money.
Castaway: Psychotic demagogue seeking revenge.
Macbeth: Academic, defends the gargoyles.
Margot: Another person in the crossfire, believes them to be animals, wants the gargoyles captured and studied for the safety of the general public.

That's three professional people (lawyer, cop, journalist), four 'ordinary Joes' (Jogger, Vinnie, Sarah, Art), two career mercenaries, and two people with strong personal experience of the gargoyles positive and negative.

Macbeth sticks his neck above the parapet for the gargoyles. Castaway is an ideologue who seeks them destroyed.

The career mercenaries go where the jobs are -- the Quarrymen, obviously.

Then there's seven people who are just ordinary people.

NONE of the three established professionals go anywhere near the Quarrymen. These are educated people who see things through the prisms of their jobs. Travis continues to report the news in a calm, non-sensationalist manner; Chavez continues to follow all leads; and Margot calls for the rule of law and the restoration of public safety.

Of the four 'ordinary Joe' characters, one reckons capturing and examining them is the best way forward, another is extra vigilant defending his own property. Two of the remaining four are drawn in by Castaway, and one of them almost instantly rejects them (and has an escape route to Japan so needn't fear reprisals from leaving). The second has personal experience and fears driving her. "Other people don't seem to grasp the severity of the issue... while the suits are arguing on telly, they might track down my kids again... they tried to get at them once... better do something fast..."

I think that's a pretty even spread of opinion. Of the seven normal people, three aren't hysterical at all (Chavez, the Jogger, Travis), one is undecided and falls into a bad crowd pretty much by accident (Vinnie), three are hostile (Margot, Art, Sarah) but only one is apparently convinced by the Quarrymen.

I think it's also a very representative spread of the way people react to these sorts of situations. Ideologues don't generally have a broad appeal, your Hitlers and Mussolinis notwithstanding. They're the tinpot fascist leaders, the Islamist tub-thumpers, the bigots who generally target people who are either naturally drawn toward violence or who have a specific mix of circumstances: genuine fear galvanised by personal experiences and a feeling of being disenfranchised by an establishment which doesn't seem to offer solutions to their problems.

Harvester: Sure, I just think a hybrid clone of your ex and the woman you're trying to get over probably has complicating factors too. ;)
Ed
"It's important that everyone remain calm." -- Matt Bluestone, "Nightwatch"
posted @ Fri, Sep 1, 2006 12:07:02 am EDT from 213.187.38.205

Oh, Greg, chill out. I'm sure that if Greg Weisman had time enough and world, we'd have seen more, but we didn't, and one goes by what one sees. We saw a crowd of people shouting at gargoyles despite a great big airship crashed into a church right in front of them, and rightly or wrongly, the next bit we saw was TGC, which went out of its way to give New Yorkers the collective intelligence of Hee Haw County, Alabama.

All these comments about the drama of the narrative aside, it's just not that interesting a storyline to me. I recognize that it's good to shake things up, and that in the context of the show, it's a good logical progression for the gargoyles to be exposed and for the humans to turn against them...but to me, it's a boring, boring storyline, and as soon as that complication arises, my interest kind of plummets. It's the same thing seen in X-Men and in other similarly themed franchises, and I find it boring there and I find it boring in Gargoyles. Again, that's just preference, and there's no accounting for taste and all that, but the Quarrymen just don't interest me, and the way the people of New York react to them is one of the most irritating...ah, don't get me started. ;-)

But put it this way. If the comic shows a bunch of New Yorkers selling tickets for a gargoyle-watching tour, or shows Will Ferrell doing an unflattering Castaway impersonation on Saturday Night Live, or shows a university lecture series calmly and rationaly discussing the biological/medical implications without someone screaming "OMG THEY'LL EAT OUYR CHILDREN WON"T SOMBEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!!1!!!!" like they did in TGC, then I'll eat my words. I'm not interested in monolithic groups.

Likewise the Illuminati; they're boring if they're all powerful. I'd actually prefer to see them as a somewhat pathetic Elks Club rip off, playing darts and crying over their beer about the good old days, damnit, where secret societies meant something. You know, I think the Illuminati should be a lot like the Legion Hall down at the harbour, complete with Bonanza Bingo for the locals every Wednesday. THAT would be unique, you'd have to admit.
Whitbourne
posted @ Thu, Aug 31, 2006 10:18:25 pm EDT from 142.167.208.224

It's amazing how we're judging the reaction of all of humanity, all of New York, and all of Greg's plan based on ONE FUCKING EPISODE!

Wow, I'd hate to see this place if "Gargoyles" was cancelled after "Leader of the Pack".

"Oh noes, they're gonna fight the Pack all the time. Nothing will evar happen!"

And if Ask Greg was around and tidbits were slipped about "City of Stone", "Avalon", Thailog, the Hunters, etc, everyone would be ignoring that to nitpick what an entire season would be based on one episode.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Thu, Aug 31, 2006 9:57:26 pm EDT from 67.8.234.210

It's really hard for me to believe that a great many people would think exterminating a species is a "good thing" in this day and age. We keep saying that people are going to view gargoyles as dangerous animals. But even the most dangerous animals out there, like alligators and mountain lions, are only killed as a last resort when they're found living in a populated area. The Quarrymen want to advocate genocide as the only solution, but wouldn't there be others who'd be trying instead to capture and relocate them?
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2007]
posted @ Thu, Aug 31, 2006 9:29:53 pm EDT from 65.43.176.8

Ed: <I guess he had to choose Delilah because he's not exactly spoilt for choice.> I think that, for obvious reasons, Delilah would have a physical attraction to Goliath.

And it's funny you should mention fanfic. I think Christine Morgan has written something about Macbeth and Demona sharing each others' pleasure. I'll let her say more about that, though, if she wants to.

Todd: Castaway already had the "villain" moustache going for him, at least in the Goliath Chronicles. He's done a better job maintaining it in the comic. I'm sure I've already told you how I was surprised that he never ordered the Quarrymen to try and dupe the gargoyles by pretending to tie a woman to some railroad tracks. And then after the gargoyles were no more, he and his men could rob the National Bank of Canada!
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"At least the killing part appeals to you, doesn't it?" -Durandal
posted @ Thu, Aug 31, 2006 9:06:40 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

MATT - Yes, I also think that the Quarrymen are more interesting if they believe that the gargoyles are evil monsters threatening the city that they've got to get rid of. I was commenting more on the way that they were portrayed in the Goliath Chronicles, where it was clear that they knew the truth about the gargoyles (or why else would they be setting up all those fake crimes as traps for the clan?).
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Thu, Aug 31, 2006 8:20:42 pm EDT from 4.245.16.182

I dunno, Todd. I kinda like that the Quarrymen pull people in from all walks of life. Are there criminals in the group, sure, but I think the Quarrymen are a much more interesting group if they actually feel they are doing the right thing. People, especially groups of people, who say "We are bad guys and we do bad guys things" are few and far between. Most people believe they are doing the right thing. I think the bulk of the Quarrymen, including Castaway himself, feel they are trying to do the right thing. Other elements like Macbeth's former "sidekicks" Banquo and Fleance are doing it for the paychecks. I really doubt many people are joining the Quarrymen to make a life of crime easier. If ordinary criminals (thieves, muggers, vandalisers, etc.) had the kind of tendency to think that far ahead, they wouldn't be criminals in the first place. I can see some organized crime elements supporting the Quarrymen, but the only organized crime elements we really saw have been mostly dismantled by the police and the Clan.
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"The pen is mightier than the sword, and considerably easier to write with. " -Marty Feldman
posted @ Thu, Aug 31, 2006 8:04:08 pm EDT from 70.253.179.22

Regarding the mutates: I think it's easier to show, visually, the mutates throwing lightning from their hands than to convey the idea that they deliver an electric shock to anyone they touch when they're "Charged up."

Even the electric eels had visual crackling electricity effects so they would be visually recognizable to viewers.

In a novel, that wouldn't be so important but on TV and in comics, the visual suggestion of electricity is more vital.
Stormy - [decepticoncommand@hotmail.com]
posted @ Thu, Aug 31, 2006 8:01:36 pm EDT from 142.167.219.251

Of course, if Demona shows up for the Double Date, we can see not only her response towards Goliath and Elisa, but also towards Delilah - who obviously can't be ranking very high on Demona's "likes" list, given that: a) she was developed by Thailog as her replacement, and b) the additional insult of daring to combine Demona's DNA with Elisa's. (And, yes, that was all Thailog's idea, and Delilah didn't have any say in the matter - but since when does Demona concern herself with that?)

I've sometimes thought that the Quarrymen in the Goliath Chronicles would have almost made better sense if they were an expression, not so much of xenophobia, as of the criminals realizing that those creatures that have been foiling their crimes really do exist and that they need to take action - almost all of the Quarrymen after "The Journey" seem to be professional bad guys rather than panicky citizens (with one or two exceptions such as Maxwell in "Angels in the Night"), and it's clear that they know the truth about the gargoyles from all those phony crimes that they set up. Which could suggest this alternate "Angels in the Night" (and, yes, it's hokey, but probably no worse than the episodes in the Goliath Chronicles that we actually got):

Castaway, believing that he's killed Goliath and the others, gathers the Quarrymen together and shouts, "The meddling gargoyles are gone at last! The city is ours!" The Quarrymen promptly surge out into the streets, robbing every store and bank that they can find, holding up frightened citizens, etc., and finally storm into the City Hall, where Castaway takes the Mayor and City Council hostage. When the Mayor says bewilderedly that he thought that the Quarrymen were just an anti-gargoyle hate group, Castaway replies, "That's what we wanted you to think. The truth is, we didn't hate the gargoyles because they were different from us or looked like monsters. We hated them because they were constantly meddling in our crimes. So we made ourselves look like a hate group to dupe you - but now that they're gone, we're taking over this city, and there's no one who can stop us!" "No one?" asks Goliath, entering the room with the other gargoyles. A big battle breaks out, with the gargoyles at last victorious, the Quarrymen being led off to prison, and the human citizenry cheering on the clan (a la the real ending for "Angels in the Night").
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Thu, Aug 31, 2006 7:18:31 pm EDT from 4.245.16.182

I believe Greg has said that Elisa is the one who insists that Goliath go on the double date with Delilah. Goliath is not going to be keen on the idea, but does so.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Thu, Aug 31, 2006 5:50:48 pm EDT from 67.8.234.210

JJ: The comic had 32 interior pages, 30 of which were actual comic pages. Greg's introduction was page 31, the crew details were on pages 32 and the inside back cover.

Greg: Awesome. Wonder if this means Thailog will be back too...

Matt: I guess he had to choose Delilah because he's not exactly spoilt for choice. Not very diplomatic though -- and given that the clones have been kept mentally much like children, it's potentially a little seedy. I'm sure Goliath will be a gent though.

The mutates question is interesting and not something I'd thought before. Maybe they actually shoot out sweat or something which happens to have an electric charge. Doesn't really explain the fireworks though. Oh well, I guess it's in the "mediaeval castles in Dark Ages Scotland" category.

The Demona/Macbeth sex link could be the basis for some amusing fanfics with Macbeth and Demona in the 1040-50s (and probably already have, I suppose).
Ed
"It's important that everyone remain calm." -- Matt Bluestone, "Nightwatch"
posted @ Thu, Aug 31, 2006 5:16:08 pm EDT from 213.187.38.205

<Can anyone say soap opera?> Oh, definitely. I cannot WAIT! I'd settle for just Demona and Delilah in the same episode, let alone... *shivers with delight*

All that's missing is Fang (or is he?)...
Twiggess
Oh look, a skyscraper!
posted @ Thu, Aug 31, 2006 4:51:05 pm EDT from 65.97.14.233

Okay, so let me get this straight. Goliath was mated with Demona. Goliath breaks it off with Demona. Goliath is cloned. Goliath bonds with Elisa. Demona hates Elisa. Goliath's clone makes a hybrid of Demona and Elisa. Goliath and Elisa recognize their relationship. Goliath and Elisa attempt to deny their relationship. Goliath goes on a double date with Elisa. He is on a date with Delilah. Demona is the antagonist in this story.
Can someone say soup opera?

Demona, Delilah, Elisa and Goliath in one episode. Thats gonna be so cool.
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"The pen is mightier than the sword, and considerably easier to write with. " -Marty Feldman
posted @ Thu, Aug 31, 2006 4:09:42 pm EDT from 70.253.179.22

Comic>> #1 had 4-6 pages of background info and "Meet the Crew" bios IIRC (I don't have the comic at hand right now). Take those out, and you have a page count close to that of #2.

Disguise>> It's more than the mustache. New hair style, new speech patterns, maybe even a good deal of theatrical makeup

Jon Canmore doesn't really look that much like John Castaway, to me. I figure that we guess they are the same because we know the motivations behind Jon, and recognize the similarities of the first names.

Airships>> I'm sure Renard got permission to use his airship. I still think the Hunters' airship was gratuitous, a nod to the super-hero genre.
(Whether airships are even feasible is a discussion for another day, maybe 3535 ;-) )

Speaking of gratuitous, I'm thinking of something that just came up on Ask Grep. The Mutates' ability to launch lightning bolts from their arms was a little over-the-top and unnecessary, IMHO. Just let 'em shock victims that they touch. Quite effective, and less likely to throw the audience out of its suspension of disbelief.
JJ Gregarius
posted @ Thu, Aug 31, 2006 4:05:35 pm EDT from 12.78.57.37

I'm pretty sure the Double Date will be the main plot, not the subplot. Though, I am sure there will be subplots.

Greg has said before that Demona returns in #3. I think her being the antagonist in the Double Date story works wonderfully, since it's the story where Goliath and Elisa decide they can no longer deny how they feel for one another.
Greg BishanskyF - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Thu, Aug 31, 2006 3:52:29 pm EDT from 67.8.234.210

Woo-hoo! #3! The double-date story, eh?... seems a bit soon after "The Journey" to have what sounds like another Goliath & Elisa centric story, but it might be good if the rest of the clan is gradually built up. And perhaps the date is just one subplot. I wonder who the gatecrashers are?

24 pages is down a fair bit from #1 at 30. I guess either there's less story since it's designed to fit a comic not a script or else they've got advertising (which means they've been able to attract advertisers, which surely bodes well, even if I did enjoy the ad-free issue). Or maybe it's just a placeholder number and we'll get a full 30-32 pages after all.

Actually, Whit's is an interesting point. How many people do remember Whit's trademarked bloody great airship. How is this thing being spun in the press? "GARGOYLES ARE LIVING AMONG US! ... YALE SLAMS GARGOYLE MENACE... XANATOS INVESTIGATION... COP SHOCK AT GARGOYLE NEST... SCIENTISTS SEEK GARGOYLE CELL SAMPLES... MAYORAL SLEAZE... 1940S KILLER FREED... TEMPERS FRAY IN MIDDLE-EAST... ENVIRONMENTAL TARGETS MISSED... LOCAL CARNIVAL CANCELLED... DUCKS FLY SOUTH... CANMORES ARRESTED... JASON CANMORE CONFESSES BOMBING "DISPROPORTIONATE" REACTION TO GARGOYLES."

I don't understand the problem with the Quarrymen though. Small groups of violent racists have acted this way for eons -- the KKK, the National Front, jihadist groups etc. At the time of "Nightwatch" it seems like there's a few dozen, tops, in a city of millions.

My "er... what?" bit that I find odd is that Jon Canmore, famous newscaster who broke the gargoyles story, disappears and a bloke with a moustache and a plummy accent appears. Although it does explain why Vinnie and Sarah were approached to join the Quarrymen. Maybe his miracle-moustache is fake too so he can go back and forth. (Although if it is, surely it's the worst disguise ever? I guess he's read too many Superman comics).

Greg: In fairness, there was only ever the tiniest clue that Castaway was Canmore originally. They may not have forgotten it, but simply decided they didn't want to deal with a continuity hangover they didn't really have any strong ideas for.
Ed
"It's important that everyone remain calm." -- Matt Bluestone, "Nightwatch"
posted @ Thu, Aug 31, 2006 3:31:23 pm EDT from 213.187.38.205

Well, there's a tropical storm overhead, so I should probably shut off my computer. Bye, guys!
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
posted @ Thu, Aug 31, 2006 2:53:50 pm EDT from 68.58.251.79

Forgot to change my avatar back.
Greg BishanskyF - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Thu, Aug 31, 2006 12:56:39 pm EDT from 67.8.234.210

ALEX GARG> Well, if it helps. I think TGS messed up the Quarrymen almost as bad as TGC did. On the one hand, TGS didn't conveniently forget that John Castaway was really Jon Canmore. But, the end of the arc... the Quarrymen are torn apart by the conflict between wo brothers. A brother who hated gargoyles and has seen the light, and one still violently hating them, and wishing only to destroy them.

Unfortunately, those two brothers were fanfic characters and not the Canmore brothers, who both barely had cameos in that story.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Thu, Aug 31, 2006 12:56:02 pm EDT from 67.8.234.210

Oh, my bad. I forgot that Stan, Kyle, Kenny and Cartman were our designated moral compass. I suppose if THEY said something it can't possibly be insulting to anyone. Don't bother taking any responsibility for yourself. Blaming a couple of cartoon figures for your actions is so much more mature.

Look, I like South Park a lot, but that doesn't mean everything they say or do should be said or done.
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"The pen is mightier than the sword, and considerably easier to write with. " -Marty Feldman
posted @ Thu, Aug 31, 2006 12:20:25 pm EDT from 70.253.179.22

Whoops, meant TGC in that last post.
Alex Garg - [fiatnox@gmail.com]
posted @ Thu, Aug 31, 2006 9:44:09 am EDT from 68.100.18.76

Whit>> I agree with you on the Quarrymen only with the exception of the numbers. I don't think they represent the entire city of New York at all (much as TGS wanted us to believe later).

With New York and the immediate surrounding counties, you've got about 8 million people. If even one percent of those people *are* stupid enough to behave as they do (i.e., join the Quarrymen), that's 80,000 people. One-hundredth of one percent of the population still gives you 800 people running around like idiots - it's not really a large *mob* of people, but plenty enough to cause trouble (and plenty enough to have replacement peons up to a point).
Alex Garg - [fiatnox@gmail.com]
posted @ Thu, Aug 31, 2006 9:43:35 am EDT from 68.100.18.76

As a side-note, one other factor to remember about the gargoyles; they look like what humans commonly think of as "demons" (batlike wings, fangs, clawed hands and feet, that sort of thing). All those centuries of art depicting evil monsters as having features similar to the Manhattan gargoyles is certainly going to subconsciously influence humans to believe the gargoyles to be hostile.

I can't help but wonder whether things would have been a lot better for the gargoyles if it had been the London clan that had first gone public. Their physical features are less "demonic" - they have feathered wings, for example, rather than leathery batlike wings, and the former have more positive associations (angels are depicted with feathered wings, demons with batlike wings). And they look like heraldic animals (lions, unicorns, and griffons) with a certain favorable connotation. Maybe some people would still be spooked by them, but they'd be less likely to be influenced by all those time-honored notions of what demons look like in judging the London clan than they would in judging Goliath's clan.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Thu, Aug 31, 2006 9:01:05 am EDT from 4.245.16.176

I think that it's worth pointing out that the notion that most humans fear and hate gargoyles was one of the cornerstones of the series. It was one of the main reasons for the Wyvern Massacre that started off the series, for a start; the whole reason why Demona and the Captain betrayed the castle to the Vikings was because they were angry and embittered over the way that Princess Katharine, the Magus, and the other human residents were treating the gargoyles. Furthermore, it's a core element of Demona's motivations. Take the human hostility towards gargoyles away and Demona would have to be either written out, reformed, or turned into a more conventional "I want to take over the world"-type super-villain.

From this angle, the Quarrymen, no matter how unpopular they may be with the audience, would have to be inevitable as the culmination of where the theme of "It is the nature of humankind to fear what they do not understand" was leading to. (And I suppose that the general public being so easily stampeded into hating gargoyles by Castaway isn't that much worse than the notion that the humans of Castle Wyvern, who had been protected by gargoyles for 23 years, should still all hate the clan except for the Captain of the Guard and Tom.)

While I've had my doubts over whether the police and the city authorities in general would be that keen on the Quarrymen in light of their vigilantism, remember that Castaway has Illuminati support. The Illuminati could therefore easily thwart any official effort to restrain Castaway, whether through city officials and police officers (maybe even the Police Commissioner) being Illuminati, or through finding ways of hindering their activities (as in sending messages to the NYPD that any member of the police force who tries moving against the Quarrymen can expect to spend the rest of his or her career writing parking tickets for penguins at the South Pole). And Castaway would probably cite the Second Amendment in defense of those Quarryhammers.

Re Halloween: My point was that celebrating a holiday focused around "creatures of the night" might seem less appealing once those creatures of the night turn out to be real. I don't think that the revelation of the existence of gargoyles would threaten other celebrations with entirely different themes; the specific problem that Halloween would face would be that it's too thematically linked to monsters that, up until now, have been viewed as safely "make-believe", but after the public revelation of the gargoyles' existence, can no longer be viewed in that way.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Thu, Aug 31, 2006 7:20:09 am EDT from 4.244.213.108

The rules about aircraft flying at low altitude in the city must be different in the "Gargoyles" universe because Xanatos, Macbeth, Reynard, the Pack, and even the clan themselves were able to get away with it, too. In the real world, even before 9/11, the powers that be wouldn't put up with low-flying airships crusing around the city.

And I still say that the NYPD in real life would not tolerate a gang of hooded vigilates running around the city smashing statuary every night, and that Castaway - as the leader of the group - would be held liable for his followers actions in a courtroom.

Matt > Take it up with Stan, Kyle, Kenny, and Cartman. :P

295 days left until The Gathering 2007 in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2007]
posted @ Thu, Aug 31, 2006 7:00:38 am EDT from 65.43.176.8

*glances at the inconsistency in his last post*

D'oh! Remind me to stop posting in here on an empty stomach.

Whit: I don't know. One of the best things a writer can do is complicate a character's happy little world. I mean, realistically, the gargoyles probably wouldn't have been able to keep their existence a secret forever. If the Hunters hadn't done it, something else probably would have down the road. The gargoyles were just settling into their niche, and now everything is upside-down again. In the first 65 episodes, Greg firmly established the characters of this universe. As long as he remains true to them at their core levels, I think he should still tell a good story.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Everyone decides their fate, no matter where they're born. Words like fate, karma... it's all just an excuse for giving up if you ask me." -Solid Snake
posted @ Thu, Aug 31, 2006 6:57:55 am EDT from 69.174.3.196

"Anyway, arn't the people of NY aware at this point that it was the big freakin' airship that blew up the building?"

Maybe, just maybe the airship was stealthrigged. We know that the Pack had an airship rigged for stealth so why not the hunters. The only problem is we don't really know the limits of stealth technology in the Gargoyles Universe.
Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]
Remember the old Gargoyles comics!
posted @ Thu, Aug 31, 2006 6:19:28 am EDT from 69.54.209.90

Matt: "Fruity little club" was actually a South Park reference. It was describing a group of child molesters, although it was really supposed to be Scientologists.
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
posted @ Thu, Aug 31, 2006 4:38:50 am EDT from 68.58.251.79

Something off course> I noticed on the SLG site that issue #2 of Gargoyles is coming out in October, but issue #3 is coming out in November, the month after. I guess they wanted to be fair, but it still has subject to change.
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
I may make lame posts, I may be a nerd/geek who doesn't have a girlfriend (no offense), I may be a little overweight...BUT I WILL HAVE A SUCCESSFULL LIFE DAMMIT!
posted @ Thu, Aug 31, 2006 2:22:19 am EDT from 69.231.228.10

"Gay Rumors" I thought was funny. "fruity little club" irks me.

Not cool.

Anyway, arn't the people of NY aware at this point that it was the big freakin' airship that blew up the building? I thought they knew this but were joining the Quarrymen just out of fear of the gargoyles.

That said, the gargoyles being revealed to humanity, Brooklyn timedancing and returning older than Goliath, Sentinel and New Olympians are also things that kinda have bugged me in the past. I'm used to them now and I sorta get it, but still part of me feels a little nervous about these plots. I trust Greg to tell the stories though. I'm going to wait and see where it all goes.
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"The pen is mightier than the sword, and considerably easier to write with. " -Marty Feldman
posted @ Thu, Aug 31, 2006 12:17:21 am EDT from 70.253.191.97

Stormy-- Agreed. I just missed the spoof tabloid headline that prompted Matt's comment on it (pale yellow stands out a lot more than calm aqua ;). Without that context, I came to the wrong conclusion. :B My bad!
Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail.com]
I do not suffer fools, gladly or otherwise.
posted @ Wed, Aug 30, 2006 10:49:17 pm EDT from 69.244.247.43

<----- Saying the Quarrymen are the next Big Bad makes Thailog cry ;)
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Wed, Aug 30, 2006 10:30:22 pm EDT from 65.33.128.134

Whit > For what it's worth, I agree with you completely regarding the Quarrymen. That Fonzie analogy seems quite appropriate. "Gargoyles" always had such sophisticated antagonists. To have the whole population catch a case of the dumb so next big bad can be Castaway's fruity little club seems a damn shame.
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2007]
posted @ Wed, Aug 30, 2006 10:28:04 pm EDT from 65.43.176.8

It's not trust, per se, it's more just not liking where the story was going generally. I'm not fussy on Timedancer, either, for instance, in the same way I wasn't fussy on "Sentinel" or "The New Olympians".

Different strokes more so than lack of trust, I'd say. I'm sure that Mr. Weisman will tell a good story; it just doesn't taste like my cup of tea.

Better taste than what we actually saw of the angry mobs. Did they really not remember the BLOODY FREAKING AIRSHIP that had been hanging around, the same one that just cra...ah, don't get me started. ;-)
Whitbourne
posted @ Wed, Aug 30, 2006 10:20:55 pm EDT from 142.167.210.218

WHIT> Well, after a decade, Greg finally has the chance to play this story out. He hasn't let us down in the first 65 episodes, I trust him to do this right.

Also, I doubt he'll be using the Quarrymen as much as the TGC crew did. Greg has said in the past that Thailog was going to be the next main villain. And, I like Thailog. I think he can pull it off.

Not to mention we still have Demona around, who I'm sure will be more important to the story than the Quarrymen.

And we'll finally get to see more of the Illuminati. Greg has said Macbeth will be showing up again soon. Also, let us not forget, Xanatos still isn't exactly Mr. Good Guy.

I guess it just comes down to me trusting Greg enough to continue this story, and all it's plot threads.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Wed, Aug 30, 2006 10:12:47 pm EDT from 65.33.128.134

Notwithstanding that, it's just...for me, watching Hunter's Moon, when Jon Canmore made his news report exposing the gargoyles, there was a funny feeling I had watching that scene that I never really put my finger on until recently.

It was watching the Fonz jump the shark. At least, it was watching him come up with the idea to jump over the shark. Maybe some white-board preconception stage, I don't know. It was That Moment where the tone of show changed, changed in such a way that you knew a line had been crossed somewhere, and that, in my own case, it would be harder for things afterward to capture my attention in the same way. This is totally personal preference, nothing more, but there it is.

It's the same with X-Men. The stories I like least are the Misunderstood Heroes Against The World, because honestly, the storyline just bores me. It's worse if there's a gaping, catastrophic plot hole. I heard a story once where there were people watching the movie Titanic, and in the last scene with Jack and Rose where Jack slips beautifully and poignantly beneath the waves, and someone stood up in the audience and shouted "ICE FLOATS!"

I can't think of the Quarrymen without thinking about the people in New York wandering around walking into lampposts and picking their noses saying "duh, I guess them there gargoyle thingies blew up that buildin', even though there was that freaking airship flying around the city the past three nights that everybody done saw...", and it's like that Ice Floats moment. It just wrecks it. You watch them march around with their hammers and you wonder "they can't all be that stupid, can they?"
Whitbourne
posted @ Wed, Aug 30, 2006 9:51:48 pm EDT from 142.167.210.218

Well, this is where we follow the very wise words of our good, dear friend, Revel.

Four magic words that will explain anything weird that happens in this show or any show.

"It's in the script."
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Wed, Aug 30, 2006 9:44:32 pm EDT from 65.33.128.134

Oh, Greg, sweetie, hyperbole's so much more fun.

Besides, there's monolithic, and there's just annoyingly slanted. The way things seem to shape up, the Quarrymen (I have a hard time even typing that word without wanting to spit; I hate them, hate hate hate them, hate the idea that led to their conception, hate every last cliched storyline that they engender and spawn like little Aspergillus spores growing under a bathroom sink) take a role in the story that just puts way, way, way too much weight on them, and depends on the people of New York behaving like complete idiots.

As if no one figured out that there was a BLOODY FREAKING AIRSHIP floating not FIFTY METRES ABOVE STREET...ah, don't get me started. :-P
Whitbourne
posted @ Wed, Aug 30, 2006 9:41:08 pm EDT from 142.167.210.218

Well, I guess I'm not running the poll after all. I haven't got a lot of suggestions for additional categories--instead, I got early votes, and those are confusing to count as many people have voted for more than one thing in the same category.

So I think I'm going to wait and try to do the poll fresh in a couple months or so.

At any rate, we have the Colbert Report and Castaway to entertain us :)

***
Gay jokes:

First, satirizing tabloids or popular phrases isn't offensive, IMHO, as the person who says it is saying it to mock OTHERS who say it.

I used to do "that's so gay" in a Cartman voice, like on South Park, to make fun of people who used "gay" to describe "stupid". Only I found that despite my Cartman imitation, some people thought I was saying it /seriously/ as opposed to saying it mockingly, ie to make fun of those who say it seriously and point out how ridiculous that is. So, I quit entirely, so as not to offend people.
Stormy - [decepticoncommand@hotmail.com]
posted @ Wed, Aug 30, 2006 9:40:58 pm EDT from 142.167.210.218

9/11, hurricane katrina, earth shattering earthquakes, even gargoyles, no matter what the deal it won't be a good idea to just stay at home, freaking out in a feeble position. I have a good feeling that will be proven as a fact in the comic....or maybe not, we don't know what Greg has planned in the future, remember that. Which reminds me, are the comics really gonna be 24 pages now?
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
I may make lame posts, I may be a nerd/geek who doesn't have a girlfriend (no offense), I may be a little overweight...BUT I WILL HAVE A SUCCESSFULL LIFE DAMMIT!
posted @ Wed, Aug 30, 2006 9:39:45 pm EDT from 69.231.228.10

Eh, just giving Whit a hard time. ;)
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Wed, Aug 30, 2006 9:34:44 pm EDT from 65.33.128.134

*Glances back and forth between Greg B and Whit and, saying nothing, backs away and quickly gets a cookie from the table...*
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"The pen is mightier than the sword, and considerably easier to write with. " -Marty Feldman
posted @ Wed, Aug 30, 2006 9:25:23 pm EDT from 70.253.191.97

Well, I think you're undercutting it a bit. I mean, this is a new, unknown creature. A demon. Who knows. We've already seen various reactions to them. I'm sure we'll see more.

Greg has always said the reaction to the existence of gargoyles would not be monolithic. It's a shame some people ::looks at Whit:: tend to ignore that statement for the sake of hyperbole.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Wed, Aug 30, 2006 9:18:42 pm EDT from 65.33.128.134

Greg B> Exactly.

And keep in mind that everyone in New York knew about and was affected by 9/11, only a very small segment of the population has seen a gargoyle, and even now, they have only a glimpse of some of them on television. Interesting news? Sure. Frightening news? Maybe. Life-altering news? Not likely. They are just too rare and not impactful enough to be of major concern.
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"The pen is mightier than the sword, and considerably easier to write with. " -Marty Feldman
posted @ Wed, Aug 30, 2006 8:47:42 pm EDT from 70.253.191.97

People may be afraid of "Gargoyles", but that's not going to stop them from going out and celebrating a holiday.

Look at NYC in the aftermath of 9/11. People still celebrated Halloween, still gathered for the Thanksgiving Day Parade, went Christmas shopping, New Year's in Times Square. Etc, etc.

And that was with the very real threat of terrorism looming over them. Were we scared? Yes. Did that stop from from living our lives? No.

I expect something similar in the comic. Of course people are going to be scared, but most will continue to go about their daily lives.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Wed, Aug 30, 2006 8:28:16 pm EDT from 65.33.128.134

Todd> "I wonder how cheerful Halloween would be that year in New York. I mean, once you find out that those "creatures of the night" actually exist, it takes some fun out of the holiday."
Or it could make the holiday more fun. Lets face it, most people, whatever their feelings about gargoyles, have had no contact with them personally. They've been featured in the Daily Tattler, been seen in a few blurry pictures, and have reached a sort of urban legend; "Everyone has a friend or a cousin or a dentist who has seen one." Think about it, by the time gargoyles are revealed they've been in town only two years. And in that time how many people have actually seen them with their own eyes? Maybe a couple hundred tops. Out of how many New York citizens? Millions. Then you have to consider that many people probably still suspect that the entire thing is a hoax or that the gargoyles are robots as seen in "The Edge." If you really think about it, even if they are known to exist and even if people do feel they are an unknown threat, people should also be aware that encountering them is a very rare event (except, say if you are Margot Yale).
It is a lot like West Nile disease carried by mosquitos. It is known to be in the US. It is known to be a threat. It is known that mosquitos carry it and everyone gets bit by mosquitos. But how many get the virus? Very few. We still have huge 4th of July celebrations every year even though sitting outside watching fireworks in the evening in the middle of summer raises your risk of getting the virus. But not enough to worry people much.
The people of New York who leave home every night have a very small chance of encountering a gargoyle. Halloween isn't going to be any more fearful than usual. In fact, many people may have more fun with the holiday, playing up the existence of the "monsters" for fun and profit.

And Todd, is it me, or did you change your text color in between your last two posts?
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"The pen is mightier than the sword, and considerably easier to write with. " -Marty Feldman
posted @ Wed, Aug 30, 2006 8:12:02 pm EDT from 70.253.191.97

Sorry for the double post, but an additional thought that I had. Castaway would probably need to keep silent for a long time about Demona turning into a human in the daytime because it would seem so far-fetched, but if he did reveal it in the end, it could have interesting consequences - as in, other people thinking "If one gargoyle can do it, maybe others can. Maybe the person sitting next to us on the bus is really a gargoyle in disguise. Or the person in the next cubicle at work. Or our next-door neighbor. Or...." And paranoia soon becomes even more rife than before.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Wed, Aug 30, 2006 7:16:48 pm EDT from 4.244.210.68

I wonder how cheerful Halloween would be that year in New York. I mean, once you find out that those "creatures of the night" actually exist, it takes some fun out of the holiday.

Re Demona's tape: Most likely she needed to get the whole thing down to review all the information and make certain that she hadn't forgotten anything (it involved no less than four objects, for one thing: the Praying Gargoyle, the Medici Tablet, the CV-1000 and the DI/7). Probably just as large a blunder as making that tape, of course, was her shouting out to Goliath about the Praying Gargoyle keeping the gargoyles safe from her spell, which gave Goliath the information that he needed to foil her by smashing it. But maybe she hadn't expected him to take such a risk (especially since the last time that she'd seen him, he was in such a vengeful mood against the Hunters that she might have thought that she'd finally gotten through to him about the menace posed by humanity).
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Wed, Aug 30, 2006 7:14:14 pm EDT from 4.244.210.68

PATRICK> In comics, a book comes out called Previews about four months in advance of a comic's actual publication. Retailers use that to decide what to spend their money on and what they think their customers might want.

An interesting solicitation text or cover art, or an ad in there, will make the difference in how much a retailer orders. And once the retailer orders come in, three or so months later, that sets the print runs for the publisher.

Basically, at any given time a comic company has to be planning at least four months ahead, if not as much as a year. It's the same as with movies, music, television, novels, and pretty much any other commercial media that needs to be sold through a distributor.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Wed, Aug 30, 2006 5:53:49 pm EDT from 65.33.128.134

Patrick> Orders from comic shops. Previews lets stores and their customers see what's coming up for comics a couple of months from now and place orders.
Demonskrye
posted @ Wed, Aug 30, 2006 5:45:09 pm EDT from 209.6.214.28

What does "solicitation" mean in the world of comic books? They have a writer and artist. What are they soliciting?
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2007]
posted @ Wed, Aug 30, 2006 5:35:16 pm EDT from 24.106.128.24

"GARGOYLES#3
by Greg Weisman & David Hedgecock.
It's Halloween in Manhattan! The one night a year the clan can be seen in public without starting a riot. David Xanatos is throwing a masquerade ball atop his castle skyscraper. Expect good food, amazing costumes, and more than a few nefarious party-crashers!
24pgs, FC .............................. $3.50"

Does this mean the comic is now 24 pages instead of 32? :(
Concerned citizen with wings
posted @ Wed, Aug 30, 2006 5:03:38 pm EDT from 84.13.249.239

MATT> Not sure. I doubt the story will be contained in one issue though, so we should get more details when issue 4 is solicited. Or issue 3 comes out, which ever comes first.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Wed, Aug 30, 2006 4:00:15 pm EDT from 65.33.128.134

So... is the double date taking place within the Eyrie?
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"The pen is mightier than the sword, and considerably easier to write with. " -Marty Feldman
posted @ Wed, Aug 30, 2006 3:39:20 pm EDT from 70.253.191.97

I just picked up the latest issue of Previews. We have a Solicitation on issue 3. It's a Spotlight item also. Unfortunately, we don't have cover art yet, but that's okay.

GARGOYLES#3
by Greg Weisman & David Hedgecock.
It's Halloween in Manhattan! The one night a year the clan can be seen in public without starting a riot. David Xanatos is throwing a masquerade ball atop his castle skyscraper. Expect good food, amazing costumes, and more than a few nefarious party-crashers!
24pgs, FC .............................. $3.50
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Wed, Aug 30, 2006 2:30:41 pm EDT from 65.33.128.134

Jurgan> Some people might even think that the whole thing was some kind of hoax/ publicity stunt, if they recognize Demona as the same gargoyle who chanted Latin over the air in "City of Stone."

Some people being conspiracy theorists, I should say.

<Anybody got any good good gargoyle celebrity quotes?> I should, but I got nothing. Maybe something mocking Jessica Simpson thinking "Chicken of the Sea" was really chicken, only with gargoyles and bats, but other than that I'm totally blocked. :(
Twiggess
Oh look, a skyscraper!
posted @ Wed, Aug 30, 2006 2:22:41 pm EDT from 65.97.14.233

Patrick: Also, don't forget about Paul McCartney suing over the name Quarreymen.

Actually, now that I think about it, the tape isn't really rock-solid evidence. Although we know it's real, it would be pretty easy to fake something like that. There'd probably be a lot of similar things that would be faked- I can already imagine the conspiracy theory websites.
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
"No one in the administration ever suggested the Iraq ordered the attacks of September the 11th." -George W. Bush, August 22, 2006
posted @ Wed, Aug 30, 2006 2:06:44 pm EDT from 68.58.251.79

Patrick-- Nevermind... I missed the part that originated Matt's comment. My bad. :B
Kythera of Anevern
I do not suffer fools, gladly or otherwise.
posted @ Wed, Aug 30, 2006 1:07:05 pm EDT from 65.169.99.145

I have to wonder why Demona made the classic villain blunder and explained her plan, and recorded it to video no less. Nevertheless, if the recording were made available to the nightly news, in order to accept it as a valid threat, the public would have to be convinced that the plan Demona's describing is even possible. Magic statues and incantations are not "real" to most people.

Greg B. > Well played on the Threat Down.

Kyt > I don't see where anyone was using "gay" in that meaning.

Whit > Don't forget the story about the copyright infringement lawsuit filed against the Quarrymen by a certain hip-hop performer after Castaway utters the phrase "It's Hammertime."

297 days left until The Gathering 2007 in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2007]
posted @ Wed, Aug 30, 2006 1:02:41 pm EDT from 24.106.128.24

Matt: How did I forget about Brendon??? Lol.
Whitbourne <Still, though, taking the piss out of Castaway's sure a lot more fun than studying> Amen to that, dude.
Twiggess
Oh look, a skyscraper!
posted @ Wed, Aug 30, 2006 12:03:01 pm EDT from 65.97.14.233

Even the people who were affected by the stone during the night spell, like Elisa, could see Demona on tv.
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"The pen is mightier than the sword, and considerably easier to write with. " -Marty Feldman
posted @ Wed, Aug 30, 2006 11:54:05 am EDT from 70.253.191.97

There's also the fact that people have seen Demona on TV before, when she cast the stone spell. There were a few people unaffected by that (people who could still see).
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Hey pal, I know a dead hooker when I see one." -Norm MacDonald
posted @ Wed, Aug 30, 2006 6:46:53 am EDT from 69.174.3.196

Warcrafter. I wrote it in here, but figured it would be funnier if PIT was considered more of a threat than Thailog. Considering the type of character Colbert plays.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2006 11:48:12 pm EDT from 65.33.128.134

Greg B> In this comment room, it says that PIT is the fourth threat while Thailog is the third, but in the fan fiction area of the fan website, it says PIT is third while Thailog is fourth. Which is it?
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
No video games and no Gargoyles makes Warcrafter go crazy!
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2006 11:46:20 pm EDT from 69.231.228.10

I'm not sure Robyn and Jason have the tape anymore. Was it in the airship when it crashed? The airship was left in St. Damien's, so it's certainly under police jurisdiction at this point.

What, exactly, is the Quarreymen's position on gargoyles? I mean, obviously, they're considered dangerous. Is the Quarreymen's platform that gargoyles are malicious demons or dangerous, unpredictable animals? Clearly the tape shows that gargoyles are thinking beings, yet that can make them even more dangerous. My guess is that they can smoothly shift their rhetoric to whatever will appeal to a given audience. Racists like the KKK told like-minded racists that blacks were inferior to whites, while telling those more sympathetic to blacks that segregation was actually best for both racists.
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
"No one in the administration ever suggested the Iraq ordered the attacks of September the 11th." -George W. Bush, August 22, 2006
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2006 11:02:07 pm EDT from 68.58.251.79

Seriously, that could be the most powerful attack from the Quarrymen. Playing that tape would really make gargoyles look bad, esspecially since there is no other gargoyle voice out there in the media showing that Demona and her views are not typical.

Fortunatly for the Clan, it looks like Jon took off in Hunter's Moon without the disk. It was probably still in the airship. I doubt Robyn or Jason would supply it to the public at this point.
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"The pen is mightier than the sword, and considerably easier to write with. " -Marty Feldman
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2006 10:33:25 pm EDT from 70.253.191.97

JURGAN> Thanks. That was straight comedy though.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2006 9:38:56 pm EDT from 65.33.128.134

Greg B: As straight comedy, that was great (especially the part about how if Sevarius couldn't read Thailog would never have been created). If we want to be serious, though, it's unlikely the public would know about Thailog. Would they know about Demona, though? I doubt it, but if the media somehow got ahold of her "Operation: Cleanslate" tape, all bets are off. Likely no one would know that she was really Destine. I'm pretty sure that Castaway would try to buy some prime airtime to play the tape for the whole world. Quarreymen membership would triple in a week.
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
"No one in the administration ever suggested the Iraq ordered the attacks of September the 11th." -George W. Bush, August 22, 2006
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2006 9:36:50 pm EDT from 68.58.251.79

oops, that was me
Wingless
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2006 9:15:20 pm EDT from 74.105.128.170

Re: the #1 Threat is, as always. BEARS!

Don't forget the Uni BooBoo. "Cookies On Dowels"

Sorry, couldn't resist the Harvey Birdman reference. ^_^
Anonymous
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2006 9:14:30 pm EDT from 74.105.128.170

Wow. I love it when Station 8 is like this.

Whit: Before Travolta and Cruise can distribute any propaganda, don't they need to come out of the closet first?

Greg B: I'm sure Colbert would also call Dominique Destine on wearing the same clothes every day, not to mention her irrational fear of the dark.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Hey pal, I know a dead hooker when I see one." -Norm MacDonald
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2006 8:45:53 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

Greg B> LOL

I would love to see how the media would react. I mean, even things like celebrity interviews, which normally wouldn't interest me at all, would be hilarious if they had opinions on gargoyles.
Anybody got any good gargoyles celebrity quotes?
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"The pen is mightier than the sword, and considerably easier to write with. " -Marty Feldman
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2006 8:19:14 pm EDT from 70.253.191.97

I could just see the Colbert Threat Down

::SIRENS::

Threat #5 - Quarrymen.
Now, I'm all for citizens coming together for common good. Now, while I don't care too much about gargoyles, as a Catholic, I must say that I'm offended that the last time they defaced a church, a statue of Baby Jesus was a victim of their vandalism. Castaway, you have three days to apologise to the church. If you don't, you're a coward.

Threat #4 - PIT
Just what we need, another "Give peace a chance" group. But PIT is allowing the drug trade to grow, as any group that regularly holds ralleys in Washington Square Park. These pot heads are destroying our values and corrupting small children through the guise of worship of giant bats. And, my former black friend, Alan was seen at a PIT ralley. Of course, let me remind you all, my search for a new black friend is continuing.

Threat #3 - Thailog.
This Negaduck wannabe is proof of what I have always said about science. As we all know, I don't like books. I don't trust them. They're all fact, and no heart. I tell you, if Dr. Sevarius couldn't read, he would never have been created. And now, this degenerate clone is trying to flood the city with an army of cloned, female gargoyle harlots. Books, you're "On Notice".

Threat #2 - Demona
I've said it before. This bitch is a grave threat to America. Oh, and the rest of the world too, but honestly, who cares about them. Using genetic engineering and magic books in her attempts to kill us all. Books, you're "Dead to Me". Hey, "Dominique", go back to France and try to kill them. Leave us poor Americans alone.

And, the #1 Threat is, as always. BEARS!
Whether stealing are picnic baskets, or being the form Norse gods take to steal jewelry, bears remain the #1 threat to America. Godless, machines of pure evil. They WILL KILL YOU!

And that's the Threat Down.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2006 7:49:53 pm EDT from 65.33.128.134

quick question about hunter's moon>How in the heck did jason (not a police officer) get into the NYPD detective department anyway? Unless Jason had some serious resources (or paid somebody to look the other way), The background check the NYPD performs on it's applicants would of exposed Jason right from the back and it wouldn't of taken Matt bluestone (after the bombing) to have done so. I was just wondering
kjay - [tigonesskay@yahoo.com]
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2006 7:46:45 pm EDT from 69.112.127.60

If the New York Post is anything like the British tabloids, I can imagine them doing an extreme close-up of the gargoyles from the footage and, if there's a single blemish, the headline: "GARG BOILS!" Plus the inevitable story about some fantasist having an affair with a gargoyle: "CLAW SHUCKS!" Okay, I'll stop while I'm very far behind...
Ed
"It's important that everyone remain calm." -- Matt Bluestone, "Nightwatch"
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2006 7:27:09 pm EDT from 213.187.38.205

I visited a book fair today, and discovered a copy of the "Disney 1996 Yearbook". It had a couple of sections on "Gargoyles". One was a non-fiction article about architectural gargoyles (including a small "ad" for the series - opening with a little remark about who's going to protect you from crime and villainy - "Superman? Batman? No, the gargoyles!" - another case of "Gargoyles" having fun with the fears of being perceived as a Batman-ripoff?). The other was a short story about the gargoyles having their first New Year's Eve in New York; when they find out that December 31 is also Elisa's birthday, but she has to spend it on duty at Times Square, they decide to cheer her up through Lexington making some adjustments to a big digital clock there so that its text wishes her a happy birthday. (It also mentioned the trio getting party hats to wear for New Year's Eve - I assume, though, that Goliath didn't wear one. At least, I cannot imagine Goliath wearing such a hat any more than I can imagine Owen dressed in a chicken suit, running about flapping his arms and making clucking noises.) I thought briefly of buying it, but then decided against it, since the rest of its content didn't interest me that much.

I wonder how much Jason and Robyn told the public after they were taken into police custody about Goliath saving the world. The obvious problem is that they have nothing beyond their word to verify it. They might still have Demona's tape (assuming that it wasn't destroyed when the Hunters' airship crashed into St. Damien's Cathedral), but that only shows Demona's plans to wipe out humanity, not the gargoyles' intervention, so it probably wouldn't help the clan out that much (and it could, if anything, prejudice humans even more against gargoyles).
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2006 7:17:00 pm EDT from 4.244.18.81

Some gay jokes I don't mind, others I do... specifically the use of the word "gay" to refer to something as stupid or to be deliberately insulting.
Kythera of Anevern
I do not suffer fools, gladly or otherwise.
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2006 6:30:46 pm EDT from 65.169.99.145

We need a crossover with "The Daily Show" and "The Colbert Report"

Colbert would probably put Dominique Destine "On Notice"
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2006 6:03:37 pm EDT from 65.33.128.134

The "gay rumours" bit was meant more to be a comment on the sensationalist, tabloid style of the New York Post morseo than anything else. If I didn't make that clear, I apologize.

Still, though, taking the piss out of Castaway's sure a lot more fun than studying.

CASTAWAY, QUARRYMEN ADDED TO WORST-DRESSED LIST
Castaway fumes: "Let's see Bjork pull off this hood!"

***

EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW: ROBYN CANMORE ON LIFE, LOVE, and SIBLING RIVALRY

"He was always the odd one out of the family," Robyn said of her sibling. "When Da would take us out to hunt the Demon, he'd put Jason in the front seat, and give me tha nap to navigate, and when Jon would ask for some role to play, Da would make him sit in the car, 'to make sure the stick-shift stayed put'. He walways was considered to be a wee bit useless in the whole thing, to be honest."

She stirs her tea. "Once he took us to London to get supplies, took us along, and forgot Jon in the Slough Trading Estate. We were back home in Scotland a week before anyone even noticed he was gone. Served him right, though. All he'd ever really contribute to the Hunt was whining until we stopped for a hamburger on the way home."

***

CASTAWAY CONVERTS TO SCIENTOLOGY
Gargoyles "in league with psychiatrists to foment delusions in citizens", states Quarrymen leader.
Travolta, Cruise to attend next Quarrymen rally with "information pamphlets"
Whitbourne
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2006 6:00:49 pm EDT from 142.167.222.36

Jurgan> Sorry about the missplaced vowel. Anyway, no, a joke like that doesn't bug me. I thought it was funny. I'd imagine that most gay people would find a spoof on such a typical tabloid theme pretty funny, as I did. Not that gay jokes can't get offensive. I think, like all jokes, tone, circumstance and who is saying it all matter to whether it crosses the line to offensive. This one doesn't even come close, IMHO. Very funny.

Has anyone else noticed that greg has picked up his pace in answering wuestions lately? Good for him.
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"The pen is mightier than the sword, and considerably easier to write with. " -Marty Feldman
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2006 5:49:27 pm EDT from 70.253.191.97

Further research has revealed that Mrs. Yale suffers from a variety of mental disorders. She is known to only wear a single outfit of clothes. Experts lay blame on her husband (referred to only as Brendon) pointing out that he is completely unsupportive of Mrs. Yale's disorders and is perhaps mentally troubled himself. Witnesses claim that, allegedly, "Brendon" needs to call a repairman to plug in a coffee maker.
"Brendon" was not available for comment.
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"The pen is mightier than the sword, and considerably easier to write with. " -Marty Feldman
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2006 5:43:14 pm EDT from 70.253.191.97

Mett: That's why I thought it might be offensive- a lot of gay people find gay jokes to be offensive. And, I'm sorry, but please: It's Jurgan, with an "a."
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2006 5:36:03 pm EDT from 71.226.160.162

HoE: Angela or Demona? (oh, the twisted possiblites..)

Matt: thanks. (and I'm relieved you weren't trying to be offensive)

excerpt from article:

"I'll admit, I lost my temper with the lass suring that Nightwatch bit," says Lennox Macduff, "But the woman seems truly deranged to me. If she and her husband are seeing gargoyles everywhere, then there is truly something wrong."

Yale claims to have seen a therapist about her problems on several occasions, but that has not stopped her accusations.

"She just thinks there a figment of my imagination-but there not! We know that now! You believe me, don't you???" Margot replied when we consulted her about this claim.

After pulling out of the vice-grip Ms. Yale had on this reporter's arm, we asked the psychologist in question, a one Deanna Sirtus, what her diagnosis was:

"Quite frankly, I think she's cracked. The strain of being a politican must finally be getting to her."

Oh, yes. I am SO turning this into a fanfic (if that'd be alright with everyone here, after all it was Whitbourne's idea.)
Twiggess
Oh look, a skyscraper!
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2006 5:31:53 pm EDT from 65.97.14.233

Well, it is 1996. I can just imagine a tabloid proclaiming "Gargoyle Says 'I Never Slept With President Clinton.'"
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Hey pal, I know a dead hooker when I see one." -Norm MacDonald
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2006 5:26:34 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

Well, I AM gay and it wasn't offensive to me. I think it was hilarious. That Margot Wails one ain't too bad either, lol.
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"The pen is mightier than the sword, and considerably easier to write with. " -Marty Feldman
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2006 5:18:13 pm EDT from 70.253.191.97

"Margot Wails-Assistant District Attorney Claims Monsters Are Out to Get Her"

subheading: Do out local officals need more mental health care?
Twiggess
Oh look, a skyscraper!
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2006 5:15:38 pm EDT from 65.97.14.233

"Gay rumors!"

... I'm not sure whether or not to be offended by that remark, laughing or no.
Kythera of Anevern
I do not suffer fools, gladly or otherwise.
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2006 5:14:53 pm EDT from 65.169.99.145

Jurgen> Laughing. I was laughing. Heheee.
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"The pen is mightier than the sword, and considerably easier to write with. " -Marty Feldman
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2006 5:04:25 pm EDT from 70.253.191.97

dph: tough one...oh! "I bet fans will go crazy wondering what I'm saying right now."

OK, that was weak. But in my defense, I've only seen the first act of "The Gathering Pt.2", so i don't know what had been going on right before she whispered it. She and Oberon were about to leave, right?
Twiggess
Oh look, a skyscraper!
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2006 5:01:13 pm EDT from 65.97.14.233

Or what about Richard Johnson's Page Six?

"Sources say that Quarryment frontman JON CASTAWAY caused a bit of a scene after being turned away from the entry to NYC's exclsuive GYPSY CLUB last Saturday. While the Quarrymen's PR spokesmen refused to comment on the ruckus, saying that "what Castaway may or may not have said to the bouncer is far less important than the menace the gargoyles impose on our city", one source who was there says that the effeminately-mustachioed Quarrymen leader had nothing but venom for club staff when informed that he was not, in fact, on the guest list.

"I'm with COURTNEY COX," he pleaded to the bouncer, according to one insider who saw the whole affair. "Ask her! Hey, Courtney! Court...fine, be that way!"

He then insisted that his omission from the list was obviously an error, then insisted that the bouncer check under the name CANMORE, and then finally launched into a spectacular five minute tirade about how New York's GARGOYLES had obviously rigged the guest list citing this as further evidence that the gargoyles were menaces that must be stopped.

"They'll be doing this to WILL SMITH next!" he screamed to all onlookers. "The GARGOYLES will blacklist you all!"

Sources say that Castaway apparently attempted to call an organization by the name of the ILLUMINATI at a nearby pay phone for help getting into the club, but those who overheard the conversation say that his pleas were rebuffed and that someone called the GRANDMASTER instead asked him to pick up his LAUNDRY on the way home."
Whitbourne
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2006 4:56:30 pm EDT from 142.167.222.36

"Hahaa! Gay rumors!"

Wow... I honestly have no idea whether you're really laughing or being sarcastic.
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2006 4:48:10 pm EDT from 71.226.160.162

Hahaa! Gay rumors!

"Gargoyles Exist! Daily Tattler Now Seen As Legitimate"
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"The pen is mightier than the sword, and considerably easier to write with. " -Marty Feldman
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2006 4:38:07 pm EDT from 70.253.191.97

"Getting Hammered: Idiots Vandalize Sculptures Across City"
"Hunting Rats: Canmores Implicated In African Arms Trading Scandal"
"The Real Problem: Why You Need To Worry More About Democrats than Gargoyles"
"BritTease: Castaway Denies Accent Fake, Gay Rumours"
Whitbourne
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2006 4:24:42 pm EDT from 142.167.222.36

Coming up in Ask Greg,

**Upcoming Question**
snoop g'rgg writes...

Why didn't Xanatos use his power and influence to have Elisa kick off the force or have her kill?

Geez, I can answer that question just by quoting Xanatos from "Leader of the Pack" - Revenge is a sucker's game.
**End Upcoming Question**

Todd - if I understand things right, you can quote previous responses to answer existing questions, right? If so, can you speed up the process by quoting Greg's previous answer to this upcomign question: (1)which character is your favorite?
(2)which character is your least favorite?

That's all. There's about 123 questions left from 2004.

Twiggess - <That'd make a good Top Ten List.> I'm trying to work on a top 10 list of plausible (but not necessarily legitimate) things Titania whispered to Fox during the Gathering Part 2. So far I have 1 - Alex's diapers need to be changed.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2006 4:00:34 pm EDT from 63.232.248.170

"Gargoyles Exist: Can More Terror Be on the Way?"

Eh, not great, but it was spur of the moment. I'll probably think of a better one in the middle of class when I'm supposed to be focused on partial differential equations.
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2006 3:54:02 pm EDT from 71.226.160.162

<The New York Post would probably come up with some groan-worthy pun for a headline> Anybody got any suggestions? That'd make a good Top Ten List.
Twiggess
Oh look, a skyscraper!
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2006 2:12:20 pm EDT from 65.97.14.233

A good prosecutor might also bust the Canmore's hard for having a flying airship filled with Stinger missiles floating around a populated area, and then shooting those missiles at a building on a crowded street. Plus how did they get those weapons? Where did they get those wonderful toys? Might there not have been some illegal arms sales that got them their stuff that the FBI or (now) Homeland Security might not be kind of interested in?

I don't know. Gargoyles aside, the Canmores doing what they did was big on style, but minus a million points for common sense, and I find it hard to believe that they'd get off on some of that crap. If the justice system's like the one in the real world, that little stunt would probably get the three of them some federal time.

Plus Hunter's Moon made it seem like Jason and Robyn confessed to it, and I find it hard that /that/ little tidbit wouldn't make the news. The New York Post would probably come up with some groan-worthy pun for a headline.
Whitbourne
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2006 2:05:20 pm EDT from 142.167.222.36

Speaking of TGC, does anyone know where I can find a screencap of the two "gargoyles" Goliath and the Trio ran into at the beginning of "To Serve Mankind"? Thanks.
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"The pen is mightier than the sword, and considerably easier to write with. " -Marty Feldman
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2006 1:55:37 pm EDT from 70.253.191.97

Do they legally exist? Sure, they're there, clearly, but what sort of legal status, if any, do they have? Unless a court defines them as "persons," it would not be murder to kill one. They're not animals either, though. So I'm not sure they do legally exist. That's the main question that will need to be answered in the "Goliath on trial" story, and I'm sure Greg's answer will be better than "And Justice for All."

As a side note, I seem to be referencing TGC a lot lately. It's not that I like the stories or anything, just that they make a good contrast to illustrate what I'd like to see happen in the comic.
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2006 1:51:24 pm EDT from 71.226.160.162

Yeah, but how long do you think she'll be able to keep it a secret. The Quarrymen now know.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2006 1:34:25 pm EDT from 65.33.128.134

But her connection to them is not known widely.
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"The pen is mightier than the sword, and considerably easier to write with. " -Marty Feldman
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2006 1:29:35 pm EDT from 70.253.191.97

Well, they legally exist now.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2006 1:27:52 pm EDT from 65.33.128.134

I always felt that her befriending the gargoyles was actually very good for her career. I mean, they don't legally exist so all the cases they've helped her out with she gets full credit for.
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"The pen is mightier than the sword, and considerably easier to write with. " -Marty Feldman
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2006 1:25:24 pm EDT from 70.253.191.97

PATRICK> <<And is it really a good career move on Elisa's part to be dating a guy with charges pending for a terrorist attack against a police station?>>

I don't know, is it really a good career move for Elisa to up and vanish for six months?

Elisa cares about Jason, I think that would come before her career. Elisa is kinda like that. If her career came first, she wouldn't be hanging out with the gargoyles.

Who knows, this could all lead to an interesting story about Internal Affairs taking a good, long look at her.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2006 12:04:16 pm EDT from 65.33.128.134

I wonder how severe the Canmores' trail of violence for the past sixteen years actually was. Their target was Demona, who as a gargoyle doesn't legally exist and would certainly not be pressing charges against them (she'd rather handle things personally). Of course, it might have been more accidental property damage caused by unsuccessful attempts to get at her.

A good lawyer could easily handle the clock tower charges by pointing out that the Canmores were targeting the gargoyles that were nesting in the top rather than the police station itself (and even mentioning that Robyn deliberately made it a surgical strike). Of course, even so, their action would be considered irresponsible (with an attitude of "They should have notified the proper authorities about the gargoyles roosting in the 23rd precinct police station rather than making a vigilante attack") - and there's also the fact that Jason impersonated a policeman and that the Canmores lied about the gargoyles being the ones to destroy the clock tower (which was a bad deed twice over, not only in that they framed the gargoyles, but that they covered up their own responsibility for their actions).

Of course, there'll probably be plenty of people out there who still believe that the gargoyles destroyed the clock tower and that Jason and Robyn were somehow coerced into confessing; there'd be a hundred conspiracy theories on the Internet about that within a few days of "Hunter's Moon".
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2006 7:58:43 am EDT from 4.244.210.248

Maybe Jason is out on a bail? A paralyzed man isn't as much of a flight risk. Of course, how can he be severely injured and laid up in bed the day after Hunter's Moon, but out of the hospital a week later for Halloween? And is it really a good career move on Elisa's part to be dating a guy with charges pending for a terrorist attack against a police station?

297 days left until The Gathering 2007 in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2007]
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2006 7:00:21 am EDT from 65.43.176.8

Right, Morgan doesn't seem right though. I just don't get that kinda sense between him and Elisa... not to mention that he is unaware of Elisa's connections to the gargoyles which would make the hole story problematic and heavy with issues outside the main issue of the Elisa/Goliath relationship. Jason works much better, except that he should be in jail. We'll see, I guess.
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"The pen is mightier than the sword, and considerably easier to write with. " -Marty Feldman
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2006 2:41:31 am EDT from 70.253.191.97

MATT> Oh, I agree. But, we still don't know who Greg chose for the Double Date. While, Jason makes a bit more sense, I hope Greg comes up with a decent reason why he's not in jail.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2006 1:19:14 am EDT from 65.33.128.134

Okay, so Robyn is in jail for her part of the problem, but what about Jason? How is he available to go on a date with Elisa on Halloween? Surely a serious injury does not make one exempt.
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"The pen is mightier than the sword, and considerably easier to write with. " -Marty Feldman
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2006 1:17:05 am EDT from 70.253.191.97

MATT> Aiding and abetting. He still participated. He was still involved. And Matt Bluestone did talk about a trail of violence.

If hoodlums gang rape someone, and someone participates but seems agains it, he still is as much a criminal.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2006 1:15:17 am EDT from 65.33.128.134

By the police? For what exactly? He outright was against the Clocktower debacle and I doubt causing damage to a building scheduled for demolition is much of a crime...
Now I don't think hes an innocent guy, but from a legal point of view, what has he done?
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"The pen is mightier than the sword, and considerably easier to write with. " -Marty Feldman
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2006 1:12:29 am EDT from 70.253.191.97

Matt> Because Jon Canmore is a Wanted man.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2006 12:32:48 am EDT from 65.33.128.134

And why exactly is Jon(John) disguising himself?
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"The pen is mightier than the sword, and considerably easier to write with. " -Marty Feldman
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2006 12:31:25 am EDT from 70.253.191.97

Who says the moustache is real?

Costume moustache: $10.00
Spirit gum: $3.00
Most transparent disguise since Clark Kent's glasses: Priceless
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2007]
posted @ Mon, Aug 28, 2006 11:36:12 pm EDT from 65.43.176.8

dang it all I hit enter. Cause I need to see more yes more more I say more more more.
Shara - [jeanie54_2000@yahoo.com]
posted @ Mon, Aug 28, 2006 9:48:59 pm EDT from 4.246.141.254

Ok they need to make the next season of dvds come out faster cause im gonna
Shara - [jeanie54_2000@yahoo.com]
posted @ Mon, Aug 28, 2006 9:48:14 pm EDT from 4.246.141.254

I'm telling you, Jon's hair is longer in Nightwatch! Hes got it all slicked back. In Hunter's Moon it was a short neat cut.
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"The pen is mightier than the sword, and considerably easier to write with. " -Marty Feldman
posted @ Mon, Aug 28, 2006 9:45:30 pm EDT from 70.253.191.97

HoE> There are letters on the side of the building that spell "Nightstone Unlimited", it's just hard to notice.
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
No video games and no Gargoyles makes Warcrafter go crazy!
posted @ Mon, Aug 28, 2006 9:43:16 pm EDT from 69.231.228.10

Bishansky: <Jon's shorter hair: Maybe he got a haircut. Imagine that.>

Oh, come on! As the arsonist said to the prostitute, "lighten up!" ( ;
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Mih ssim, mih ssim, mih miss. Nam, daed si luap."
posted @ Mon, Aug 28, 2006 8:36:42 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

HARVESTER - The trouble with starting these rumors is that people often wind up believing them. Just look at what happened with H. L. Mencken when he composed a purely fictitious history of the bathtub.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Mon, Aug 28, 2006 8:16:05 pm EDT from 4.245.16.255

Shorter? His hair is longer in Nightwatch!
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"The pen is mightier than the sword, and considerably easier to write with. " -Marty Feldman
posted @ Mon, Aug 28, 2006 8:07:37 pm EDT from 70.253.191.97

Nightstone Moat> I dunno if it's a moat per se. Looks more like a decorative pond to me. It could very well be only in front of two sides of the building, and besides moats are generally used as barriers, this one looks as if you could almost jump over it, esspecially in the vicinity of that statue.

Jon's mustache> If he stopped shaving after Hunter's Moon and if his hair grows pretty quickly, I suppose he could've grown his mustache (not to mention some more length to his hair) in a "few days". It really comes down to how you define a few days. Unless I'm mistaken, Greg has never revealed how long of a time passed between Hunter's Moon and Nightwatch...
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"The pen is mightier than the sword, and considerably easier to write with. " -Marty Feldman
posted @ Mon, Aug 28, 2006 8:06:31 pm EDT from 70.253.191.97

Jon's shorter hair: Maybe he got a haircut. Imagine that.

As for the mustashe, this is where we default to the four magic words:

It's in the script.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Mon, Aug 28, 2006 8:03:14 pm EDT from 65.33.128.134

Shouldn't the building have letters on the side of it? Unless that building in "The Reckoning" was a different branch.

Todd: Well, his hair did look a bit shorter. Maybe they did a transplant.

Gee, all these delays with the comic kind of make me feel like starting a "Greg is Dead" rumor. Did anyone find any backwards messages in Issue #1? Think the second printing will have them? ( ;
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Mih ssim, mih ssim, mih miss. Nam, daed si luap."
posted @ Mon, Aug 28, 2006 7:47:26 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

One oddball little question here, just for the fun of it. "The Journey" (and the events in Gargoyles #1) presumably took place only a couple of days or so after "Hunter's Moon", given that everyone is still reeling from the discovery that the gargoyles actually exist and things haven't had time to calm down quite yet. What I can't help wondering, though, is: how did Jon Canmore/Castaway grow a moustache that size so quickly? (Unless maybe it's Illuminati plastic surgery.)
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Mon, Aug 28, 2006 7:44:28 pm EDT from 4.245.16.255

Patrick> It could be the sunset reflecting off the water.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Mon, Aug 28, 2006 6:21:19 pm EDT from 65.33.128.134

If that's a water feature at the base of the Nightstone Building... why is the water yellow? Ick!

298 days left until The Gathering 2007 in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2007]
posted @ Mon, Aug 28, 2006 6:14:58 pm EDT from 65.43.176.8

To me, it looks more like a lake in the background than a mout. And does that small bridge look like it doesn't leed anywhere?
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
No video games and no Gargoyles makes Warcrafter go crazy!
posted @ Mon, Aug 28, 2006 4:52:43 pm EDT from 69.231.214.184

Greg B> *L* it kind of does look like a moat. I wonder if they did that on purpose.
Shara - [jeanie54_2000@yahoo.com]
posted @ Mon, Aug 28, 2006 4:04:30 pm EDT from 4.246.141.148

Boy do I feel dumb. Thanks.
Twiggess
Oh look, a skyscraper!
posted @ Mon, Aug 28, 2006 3:52:36 pm EDT from 65.97.14.233

TWIGESS> That is definitely not the Paris office. THat shot comes from Hunter's Moon Part One. As for the spire in the back. I think that's the top of the Chrysler Building.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Mon, Aug 28, 2006 3:51:48 pm EDT from 65.33.128.134

Hmmmm.....kind of looks like a moat. Or some kind of weird tile. But what's that little pointy thing in the skyline? It looks kinda like the Effiel Tower. Or the Crystler. Depending on if it's supposed to be the Paris office or not. At anyrate it's pretty, thanks for the link.
Twiggess
Oh look, a skyscraper!
posted @ Mon, Aug 28, 2006 3:48:38 pm EDT from 65.97.14.233

An interesting observation.

I don't know if anyone has ever spotted this before, but while uploading a PAN of the Nightstone building that Taina made last night, I spotted an interesting architectural feature surrounding the building.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/gregx/Nightstone.jpg

I don't know about the rest of you, but that looks like a moat surrounding the building.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Mon, Aug 28, 2006 3:41:48 pm EDT from 65.33.128.134

Greg has said that orignally the were-panthers were going to be were-jaguars, so I don't think there is some kind of Maza-panther link. Cool concept, though.
Twiggess
"All is but toys." from Macbeth
posted @ Mon, Aug 28, 2006 2:01:48 pm EDT from 65.97.14.233

Bagpipes' comment last week makes me wonder if the DVD sales will spike with the release of the comic. The DVD plug for #1 was bured in the back with Greg's statement. Perhaps in #2, we'll see a bigger advert for it. Don't know what they're going to do with the back pages.

(One thing I have to say is that the production of the comic is really classy. Good paper, sturdy cover, lovely interior decoration.)

Puzzling thing at Ask Greg, Todd's observation that it was amusing that Diane encountered were-panthers after Talon had been mutated using the genetic material of a panther. Greg's response struck me as... odd. I mean, it's a nifty observation on Todd's part, but he made it sound like something that was somehow important. Which makes me curious.

It could just be that I'm misreading it and that it's more of a coincidence (the same point couldn't be made if it was were-cheetahs). Or it has no greater importance than being a fun coincidence. But it almost seems like he was getting at the point being significant. Did Xanatos and Sevarius know something about Derek that made the panther choice for Derek's DNA appropriate? Is there some sort of grander reason for the Maza/panther link? Is it significant that as Diane & Derek are linked to the animal of the panther, Peter & Beth are featured in an episode which ties them to the coyote -- two animals which tie to mythologies of their peoples?

(Also? Old news, but the Ask Greg search feature is a delight. Cheers, Gorebash!)
Ed
"It's important that everyone remain calm." -- Matt Bluestone, "Nightwatch"
posted @ Mon, Aug 28, 2006 1:15:18 pm EDT from 213.187.38.205

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