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The Phoenix Gate

Comment Room Archive

Comments for the week ending October 23, 2006

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Hey room, its Justin.
I haven't been around in months. But I have been earning money and doing my part. I just got issue one of the comic, and ordered another copy of it that I wont read and keep in its wrap. I pre-ordered #2 for two copies as well. Secondly, I told my family all I want this year is the DVD's. So hopefully I am helping.

Justin - [justin dot lindley at gmail dot com]
Peace Love and Empathy

I'm another person who actually didn't see his first episode until April or May of 1995. Before that, I had seen the movie of the first five episodes because my brother had borrowed it from someone. The first actual episode that I watched was "Long Way to Morning." I remember actually feeling relief seeing that Demona had survived, mostly because I was fascinated by her little moment of disclosure to Goliath at the end of "Awakening", and was hoping that we'd see more of her, to perhaps gain new insight into that (which we would, in the second season).

The other thing I remember about that episode was wondering why Brooklyn seemed so upset at her. I mean, sure, she'd tried to kill him, but she'd tried to kill all of them. This would later lead to my discovery about continuity in the Gargoyles universe (when I saw "Temptation" for the first time in July of 1995), but the episode I did see compelled me to keep watching.

I actually didn't know that more episodes were coming out in the Fall of 1995, and so I missed "Leader of the Pack" when it first aired. The first episode I saw of the next season was "Metamorphosis," and I remember being floored by the ending. In an era when stories were usually resolved in less than 30 minutes, I thought that final shot of Elisa weeping in the clock tower was a very bold move for an after-school cartoon. That was all it took for me to start watching the second season religiously.

Like most, I was extremely put off by the Goliath Chronicles. "What the hell happened?" I wondered to myself. "The episodes used to be really good, now they're just too… simple." It was only years later, when I found the Gargoyles fansite, did I realize that "The Journey" was the only episode Greg had been directly involved in, which finally explained why it was the only one of the 13 that was head and shoulders above the rest.

But anyway, for a few years, I had actually forgotten about it. It wasn't until I was channel-surfing late at night (shortly after I'd gotten out of school) did I come across an episode on ToonDisney (which was showing Part Four of "City of Stone") and started to remember what had turned me on to the show in the first place. I was even more surprised when I discovered the fandom not long after that.

My own theory on why the show has stood the test of time are the characters. For something that I used to watch after school, the cast was an incredibly bombastic blend of personalities that actually developed on very deep, personal levels as the series went on. When you can see reflections of yourself in a character, their struggles become more interesting, and I think that Gargoyles contained (though I should say still contains, now that we have the comic) a multitude of characters that almost everyone could relate to on some sort of personal level. I can't wait to see how they continue to grow in the comic.

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Very wise, my young friend. They would shoot you down like a dog." -Demona ("Temptation")

Ahh, found the problem, the ages were calculated from 12-31-1996 not 12-31-1995.


Whatever happenned to simplicity?

DPH: "Goliath is listed as being biologically 29 on 12-31-1995, while Coldstone is listed as being biologically 28. Now, Coldstone and Goliath belong to the same rookery and Awakening takes place in October 1994 and Reawakening takes place in February 1995 so why would Coldstone be a whole biologically year younger than Goliath?"

Because Coldstone is reanimated stone and doesn't age. That's why Goliath's biologically a year older. :P

D. Taina - [<-- Gargoyles Imagery Resource]

12 years... The theme song is what got me hooked (I never really liked the Keith David narration that was added for season 2). I never saw any advertisements for the show before it aired. They hyped Bonkers for seemingly a year prior to that show airing. I was a fan of Bonkers and I believe Gargoyles came on right after. The show content didn't really grab me at first--the only thing that kept me watching was the theme that I could never get out of my head. I think the first episode I saw was Awakening: Part Two the first time it aired. I missed the first part of Awakenings for the first 3 or 4 cycles of reruns. Something would always come up.

I wasn't even aware that it was a Disney show for a long time since there was no mention of Disney anywhere, and I didn't know Buena Vista was part of Disney.

As for the fandom, I remember finding S8 after I finished ju-co and went off to my 4-year university. Most of that was spent in the chat room with a group of about 10 or so regulars that were all avoiding school work. That group was the main reason the annual Gathering even exists.

Blaqthourne & Crimson Fury
Music selection: Symphonic Suite "Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King"

Ok, I was looking through Ask Greg archives and noticed something particular:

Goliath is listed as being biologically 29 on 12-31-1995, while Coldstone is listed as being biologically 28. Now, Coldstone and Goliath belong to the same rookery and Awakening takes place in October 1994 and Reawakening takes place in February 1995 so why would Coldstone be a whole biologically year younger than Goliath?

Whatever happenned to simplicity?

I, too, often find myself wishing for superheroes (or wishing I were one!) who have the power to do things. But remember Gargoyles and superheroes are only mortal, and they make mistakes, too.

Plus, if there were superheroes, I'm fairly certain the government, at least of my country, would denounce them as vigilantes and try to arrest them.

Vaevictis Asmadi

12 years! I feel old. but then I am(40) I've been an animation nut since I was little. I wanted to be an animated, but the fact I'm legally blind didn't help that matter much, so that dream never happened(I'm still a graphic artist).
Anyway, I was an avid disney afternoon watcher-and had seen the promos for Gargoyles. I wasn't quite sure what to make of it, since the ads really didn't do the show justice. I think I missed the first episode, and dropped in in the middle of the second "awakenings" Hearing the Xanatos Line "Pay a man enough and he'll walk barefoot into hell" - you had to know this was no regular Disney show. I was floored! By the end of Awakenings, Seeing "Temptation" and especially "Deadly Force" this was one gripping show. It wasn't just an animated cartoon. This was a really powerfully written series. Well acted(and i don't mean voice acted) both the animators and character actors brought the characters to life for me. There have been other shows that have, in the past, come close to the level of Gargoyles, but this show moved me in a way that no other show has. It may sound a little crazy, but I look at the world around us, and can't help but wish we really had some real life "Wing & tail" protection around us. We humans could really use it - we keep messing things up so badly ourselves, a little Gargoyle guidance wouldn't be so bad.


I can't say too much about my first impressions of the show other than I enjoyed it. I had seen the promotions in Disney Adventures magazine (which was something a spoiler with their preview comic), and that got my interest raised. I don't remember if I caught it during the first run or on later runs, but I do know I looked forward to watching it. At the time, my mom would watch things with me, so I have images of myself curled up on the loveseat and my mom on the couch watching the series in the afternoon. Unfortunately, at the time, I was pretty much solo in my fandom. I didn't get involved in the fandom until after the series was off the air and I was in college.

I remember when I first started watching Gargoyles. It was in 2001. I was channel surfing looking for something SciFi since my dad got me hooked. I then turned to Toon Disney and the first thing I saw was Demona turning from her human to gargoyle form in Hunter's Moon and I thought that's interesting. Though, it was actually a commercial saying Gargoyles was now on Toon Disney even though I remember I got a glimpse of the show around the age of five, I remembered that character. I then started watching the show from then on and got hooked. So actually, it was Demona that got me hooked and why she's my favorite character:)
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1 at sbcglobal dot net]
Humans are such easy prey for a gargoyle!

I remember watching "Awakening" for the first time when it aired in 1994. I'd heard just a little about "Gargoyles" (all that I knew about it was that I'd seen a still of Goliath in a few news articles on Disney's television animation and a promo for it of a thief being chased by the "deliberately-kept-off-stage" gargoyles - the same thief from "Re-Awakening", I believe), and wasn't certain what to make of it. Once I saw the 10th century Scotland flashback, however, I was hooked (though thinking that it was a pity that most of the show was going to take place in the modern world).

A few things I definitely remember about my first responses to "Awakening". Parts of it reminded me of the "X-Men" series then airing on FOX (the arguments between Goliath and Demona about humans could easily, I thought, have been spoken by Professor Xavier and Magneto respectively). I was wondering almost throughout whether Xanatos really was the benefactor that he appeared to be. And I was thoroughly enjoying the gargoyles trying to make sense of the modern world (especially Goliath describing Xanatos's monitor as like a living tapestry and describing modern-day roads as even finer than Roman roads), not to mention Hudson's bewildered speech about the human custom of naming everything. (Another of my favorite "quiet moments" was when Tom was getting to know the trio better, attempting to make sense of the gargoyle custom of having no names, and finally asked, "But what do you call each other?", to which Brooklyn replied "Friend".)

I don't recall as strongly my response towards the other Season One episodes, though I was very intrigued by the entrance of Macbeth on account of his name, and liked the Archmage flashbacks in "Long Way Till Morning" (the first time that I saw that episode, I actually thought that the Archmage's attack at the beginning was how Prince Malcolm had died).

The early episodes of Season Two intrigued me all the more. I was surprised when "Metamorphosis" aired and Derek was still working for Xanatos (I'd assumed that Elisa's tape recording of Fox had gotten him to change his mind on that one), but even more so when he got mutated - the real shock, though, was finding out that Xanatos had orchestrated it from the start (even after knowing what he was like, I still found myself actually believing him when he was acting as if he wanted to find a cure for Derek). I was excited when the Scrolls of Merlin got in - and even more so when "City of Stone" aired and it turned out that Macbeth actually was *the* Macbeth, something that I hadn't anticipated. (I already knew enough about the Macbeth of real history that it didn't surprise me to see him being made the "good guy" and Duncan the "bad guy".) I was also surprised when the eggs and the Archmage both turned up in "Avalon" - and got a big shock at the end of "The Price" where Owen wound up with a permanent stone hand.

Unfortunately, I missed "Walkabout" and "Ill Met By Moonlight" the first time that they aired, so it blunted some of the shock of the revelation that Anastasia Renard was really Titania. I did get almost surprised by Owen and Puck turning out to be the same guy (I only began to suspect it after Owen was hurriedly packing his bags to leave before Oberon could attack the Eyrie Building) - and was truly unsettled when Oberon stripped Puck of his powers.

I didn't discover the fandom until late in 1996, by which time the Goliath Chronicles were already airing. (Although I didn't know until afterwards that these were being done by a new production team, I did think that they weren't as interesting as the first two seasons - no medieval, legendary and literary elements, and less exciting antagonists.) Once I discovered fandom on the Internet, it wasn't long before I discovered the comment room and began posting here; the rest you know.

Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

Kaylle> Happy early Birthday. :-)

12 Years> I'm kind of ashamed that I didn't get into the fandom until the series was playing on Toon Disney, around 2001. It was almost like fate. My favorite propgram wasn't on and I'd gotten bored of my DVDs, so I was channel surfing and I came across "Temptation" which intrigued me so the next day, at the same time, I checked back in (They weren't yet airing "Deadly Force" so I watched "Enter MacBeth".) and I was hooked.

I'm wishing I'd gotten into the show years earlier, though there are a lot of shows (Taz-mania, Invasion America) I wish I had watched when they were still on TV.

But nothing ever tops Gargoyles.

KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Today I am 24.

Twelve years! Half my life! Well, very close, anyway, I'll be 25 in a few months.

I can't say I've been a fan that long, though... My younger brother, Ian, started watching near the beginning, but I resisted until sometime in the second season. He rented the movie and I watched that with him and thought it was cool, but not quite cool enough to make me go out of my way to see the show. At the time it was coming on at 6 am on Friday mornings, iirc, so it wasn't like I could just casually catch it now and then.

Fortunately for me, Ian was more dedicated and made my mother start taping it for him. One weekend he complained to my Dad that all his episodes were out of order on the tapes and he needed to redub them in the proper order. So for three days (long weekend) all we watched was Gargoyles... and by the end I was hooked ;) I think the ep that did it was Vows. I was twelve or thirteen, and my romantic preteen heart thought it was *so sad* that Goliath was still in love with Demona, knowing what she'd become and that there was no way they were going to get back together. I'm not sure if I'd seen The Mirror yet. After that I remember spending hours reliving Elisa's "I know... but that's the way it is" line and trying to determine if that actually meant what I hoped it did. Anyway, between the tragedy of unrequited love and betrayal and the promise of new love, I was hooked ;).

For season 2 the show moved to 3 pm on weekdays. I was in middle school and didn't get home on the bus until 3:15. I remember setting my watch for 3 every day and squirming on the bus knowing the show was airing and I wasn't able to see it! When I got home I'd rush inside, make sure the VCR was recording, and then turn on the TV. If it was an episode I'd seen, I'd just watch the rest of it. If it was one I hadn't seen, I'd turn the TV back off and let it finish recording, then wait for Ian to get home (he was in elementary school, so his bus didn't get there until 4) so we could watch it together. Some of my fondest memories, there...

Of course, there were times when I came home to find a new episode on the air and no tape in the VCR! Sometimes I could find a tape quickly and record the second half, and sometimes I'd just watch it and then try to recount it for my brother. Double Jeopardy was one of the ones that didn't tape the first time it aired. When Ian got home I was babbling about clones smarter than Xanatos and Thailog's silhouette laughing in the sky, and Ian was convinced I'd made the whole thing up ;).

Another one that didn't tape was Gathering 1; I managed to stick a tape in when I got home, just as Anastasia was turning into Titania. Talk about being confused ;)

Thanks, Gore, for giving us an excuse to relive all of those memories. Happy times, indeed.


Matt, have they got the DVDs yet?

I don't remember when I first watched it, or anything, but I remember liking it. But I pretty much forgot about the show until Greg Weisman did a Gargoyles panel at Convergence this summer, and it reminded me how cool the show was (and spoiled a ton of surprises, like Owen) and that's also when I found out about the DVDs and the comic, and this website.

Vaevictis Asmadi

12 years? Geeez. It really puts things into perspective when I think that I am 24, and have been watching Gargoyles for half my life.
Like you Gore, I had no interest in watching the show either. I remember my friend, Quesha, watched it all the time, but I don't think I started watching til early 1995 either. I had no reason not to like it, but yet I thought it would be dumb. Then I turned on the tv one Friday and for some reason watched Temptation and I've been watching ever since.
I never was part of an real fandom until I stumbled into this Room in late 2000, but every day, after a new episode would air, my friend Quesha and I would talk about it. I remember when Future Tense aired, I told her "I'll bet they get home in the next episode." Turns out, I was right. Then I remember when The Gathering Pt. 1 aired, she came to school the next day and said "I think Owen is Puck." And she was right. Most of the time, we were content to just let the show take us with it, and we loved it. Quesha isn't much of a fan anymore, but sometimes I tell her little things I've learned (like Broadway is Hudson's son or Brooklyn will wind up with a Ishimuran gargoyle named Katana) and I think she still remembers a little bit of how great it is. I'm going to try to get her to go to the Gathering with me next year.
The ironic thing is that her ex-boyfriend, Ryan, who has been a good friend of mine since high school, has become a pretty big fan of the show, though he wasn't much when it aired. I'm hoping he can go with me to the Gathering next year, as he has never been to one, and wants to.
Anyway, memories...

Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"Toilet out of order. Please use floor below." - Sign in public restroom stall.

This Tuesday, October 24th, will be (if I'm correct) the 12th anniversary of Gargoyles. Can you believe it? 12 years. 9 years since the show went off the air. And he were are still talking, loving, and sharing our love for this show. I really think that's extraordinary. We are part of something very rare. After 12 years I hope we can all still recognize and enjoy in something as amazing as what we have.


First time I was ever made aware of Gargoyles was through milk. The milk cartons that were part of my school lunch had advertisements on them. One of them was for this TV show called "Gargoyles". The ad included an image of Goliath and, I think, Hudson.

"Gargoyles?! What could possibly be interesting about gargoyles?", I'd often think to myself. On the title alone I completely shunned the show. I was a big Disney Afternoon fan. Duck Tales and Gummi Bears were easily two of my favorite animated shows of all time... but Gargoyles?!

It wasn't until about early 1995 (Janurary or so) that I actually watched my first episode. At that point I think season 1 was in re-runs. I'd usually work on my homework (Algebra) while watching DA. On one particular day I just left the channel tuned to DA when Gargoyles came on because I was busy with my algebra homework.

What? Wow! This show didn't suck! In fact, it was amazing! The continuity is what really got my attention. Some of my most favorite Duck Tales episodes were the multi-parters. The reason being the continuity. I loved that stories could exist beyond the 22 minutes given each day. But multi-parters were a bit rare at the time. Gargoyles was the first show that seemed to really tell a story on a scale larger than that 22 minutes and do so with every episode. It didn't take long before I was hooked.

I remember the old mailing list. I will never, not for once, ever, forget the mailing list the week we found out "OWEN IS PUCK!" It was the huge. What a great plot twist. I think about those early mailing list admins (Scott M.) and all the crazyness they had to put up with. How, on this mailing list, we had people who caught the episode a week in advance because they had satelite (I mean real satelite) television and caught the downlink of the episode being sent out to the affiliates. The "spoilers" mails that would go out... and yes.. I rarely read them, but I read the one about Owen. I sometimes wish I hadn't and could have really experienced that moment.

I remember the old IRC days, when the fans would congregate nightly. The 20 or so regulars. Some still with us, some since moved on.

I enjoy the universe. I love the people I've been able to meet because of it.

Here's to another 12 years. I hope we are all still in touch when 2018 rolls around.


Well, he didn't so much work it in, as he plopped it in and then went back later and said to himself "Now how am I going to explain *that* within Middle Earth cosmology?"

Hey guys, has there ever been a poll of which spinoff you most want to see as a separate comic series? Nevermind if you don't like the artists whatshisname, just say which spinoff you most want to see.
For me, probably I'm most interested in Timedancer, but Dark Ages would be my second pick, and probaby Pendragon third.

Vaevictis Asmadi

Warcrafter-- Yes, in the mytholgoy of some cultures, trolls turned to stone if they were exposed to sunlight. Tolkein worked that into his Middle Earth mythos, too.
Kythera of Anevern
I do not suffer fools, gladly or otherwise.

Wow. That certainly is quite a bit. Ain't caffiene grand?
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"He slept, he stole, he was rude to the customers. Still, there goes the best damned employee a convenience store ever had." -Apu

The Sphinx of Greece, the one with wings, apparently was a New Olympian type creature, since she has descendants there apparently. But I think that the ram-headed and hawk-headed Sphinxes of Egypt could have been Garg-Beasts. I'm not too sure about the human-headed Egyptian Sphinxes. They have no wings, so I don't think they were Gargoyles. But I have trouble imagining Garg-Beasts having anything that could be mistaken for a human face.
Vaevictis Asmadi

Wait.....trolls turn to stone? Maybe I'm confused but I may have some reasons why that may not be true. Then again, most likely I'm wrong.
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1 at sbcglobal dot net]
Humans are such easy prey for a gargoyle!

Wow! Greg answered a lot of questions at "Ask Greg" today! Just go see for yourselves!
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

Question received on Wed, May 16, 2001 05:38:13 AM
matt writes...
been a while since i posted, but have no fear, i'm back!
more clan questions too:

1. does the Mayan clan have any remaining relationship with the remnants of the Mayan people still living in central America?

2. about what percentage of the pre-massacre Mayan clan had Zafiro's snake-like body structure? 10%? 25%? 75%?

3. do YOU know who exactly destroyed the Mayan clan and stole the Sun Amulet? it seems to me that it happened sometime in the last fifty or so years and it would of had to been by someone who knows about gargoyles... why else would they bother to destroy them? so if you do know who is responsible, can and will you tell us?

4. are any of the four surviving clan members knowledgeable in astronomy as the ancient Mayan people were?

5. what was the purpose of the pyramid that the Mayan people built that the gargoyles now inhabit? was it ceremonial or used for astonomy or sacrifices or built specifically for the gargs?

6. before the Goliath and co. showed up in Guatemala in "The Green" did the Mayan clan know of any other garg clans ? did they think they were the last and only gargoyles?

Greg responds...
1. Any? Sure.

2. I'm not big on quantifying those kinds of things.

3. I know exactly when. It was stated in the episode as fairly recent. And yes, I have a fairly good idea who was responsible.

4. Uh, sure.

5. Uh, yes.

6. They were not in contact, but they might not have had as much reason to believe they were the only ones left. But that's a good question.

Response recorded on June 29, 2001

Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"Toilet out of order. Please use floor below." - Sign in public restroom stall.

That is something I've often wondered too, Ed. I asked Greg about it, and naturally, he didn't reveal much. I get the sense that prior to the World Tour, most, if not all, of the Clans did not know of any others, but I get the sense that they did not neccesarily think they were the last either. When the Manhattan Clan woke up, all the humans around them told them they were the last of their kind, and they had no reason to suspect they were not. Clans around the world, however, have probably been isolated for some time and may suspect there are other equally isolated Clans, even if they didn't know of any in particular.
On the other hand, some Clans have been in place so long and are so close to other ancient Clans that it is hard to think they don't know about each other. The London Clan may have long ago been in contact with the Loch Ness Clan, maybe they still are today. You could say the same about the Ishimuran and Pukhan Clans.

Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"Toilet out of order. Please use floor below." - Sign in public restroom stall.

One thing I wondered is whether any of the isolated gargoyles clans knew about any other gargoyles clans (prior to the World Tour, of course). Do the London clan know about the Loch Ness clan for example? I don't know if this has been answered before.
"It's important that everyone remain calm." -- Matt Bluestone, "Nightwatch"

It sounds like the Pukhan Clan is rather isolated from humantity, and certaintly the New Olympus Clan is. I think the New Olympus is probably the most hostile existing Clan towards humans.

And keep in mind that just because a mythological creature has a stone basis doesn't mean they have to be gargoyles. The Golem of Prague wasn't a gargoyle. Who knows whether the Sphinx in Egypt was. We don't know, despite Angela's observation.

Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"Toilet out of order. Please use floor below." - Sign in public restroom stall.

The current Guatemalan Gargs have retreated into the wilderness, yes. But the legends of Quetzalcoatl show him as a good deity, and at one point their ancestors were friends with Mayans who were wizards/sorcerers. So I think even in Guatemala, the Gargoyles and Humans had alliances sometimes.
Vaevictis Asmadi

Good point, Vaevictis. We know gargoyles have a deeply ingrained need to protect, but it doesn't necessarily mean that they have to protect humans. The protection instinct comes, as far as I can tell, from the necessity of an immobile rookery. Since there's no way to move the eggs except in extreme cases, they have to do everything possible to defend the rookery. Most of the cases we've seen show gargoyles whose protective instinct evolved into a codependence with humans, justified by simply extending the natural need to protect to include them. In cases where humans remain hostile, they would develop a need to protect gargoyles *from* humans, which would then lead humans to see them as dangerous beasts. Guatemala is a good example, though not so extreme as what we're talking about. What part of China is the Chinese clan in? If it were up in the Himalayas, I could imagine them being heavily isolated from humans.
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]

Been a looooong time since I've posted, but thought I'd temporarily de-lurk for this one.
For those interested, the Hjaltadans stone circle in Fetlar is said to be the petrified remains of a group of trows who were caught out by the sunrise as they were dancing, the fiddler & his wife in the centre.
there are a couple of pics at http://www.megalithic.co.uk, just type Hjaltadans in search bar.


Yeah, trolls are pretty similar. They don't have wings, but the turning to stone detail is too close to ignore.

I don't think all Gargoyle-inspired legends have to be about creatures who are guardians. In some region of the world where Gargoyles and Humans never formed any alliances (it could easily have happened), as the Humans took more and more territory and came into conflict with Gargoyles, the Gargs would have retreated into the wilderness and become very territorial. We know that, eventually, humans started killing Gargoyles everywhere. As Humans kill more Gargoyles, and as the Gargs get more and more willing to kill intruders without much provocation, conflict escalates. Eventually the Gargs' isolation would backfire -- they would just viewed as monsters to slay, and they would all be wiped out. But in a region where no alliances between the races had ever formed (as they did even in Guatemala), there would not be any legends of guardian beasts. Gargs would only be remembered as horrible monsters with glowing eyes, that lurked in the wilderness and killed travellers and hunters in the night.

Vaevictis Asmadi

I don't know if this counts, but I have a strong suspicion that in the Gargoyles Universe, there could have been gargoyles in Scandinavia at one point (though, obviously, they'd all died out by now), who'd given rise to legends about trolls. After all, trolls turn to stone in the daytime (in the stories about them, they actually get turned permanently to stone if sunlight hits them, but we can always assume that that's a case of superstitious Norsemen not getting the story right, especially as the years went by and the clans in those parts had died out and faded into myth).
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

Amanda -- Anyone can (and please do) correct me if I'm wrong, but I suspect that the reprint of Issue #1 hasn't come out yet either. I had extra copies on order at my local comics shop, and they hadn't come in as of a couple of weeks ago.

Yes, although I have found a few great ones like Haetae and Shedim/Lamassu, most of what I've found only vaguely looks Gargoyle-ish. Although some mythical creatures are territorial and attack intruders.

It is especially hard to find Gargoyle-ish creatures in mythologies from cultures that didn't build stone buildings, let alone adorn them with stone statues.

Vaevictis Asmadi

Besides Centaurs would no doubt live on New Olympus. If you look carefully you'll see quite a few mythological creatures are already cannon.
Vinnie - [tpeano29 at hotmail dot com]
Remember the old Gargoyles comics!

Keep in mind that Greg and the production staff chose things that didn't just look like gargoyles, but were similiar in some respect or had a history of being placed as gargoyles on buildings. Thus, the Tengu became the Ishimura Clan, the gothic gargs became the Scottish Clans, the heraldic gargoyles became the London Clan and the Quetalcoatl became the Mayan Clan. Randomly choosing mythical monsters, such as the centaurs, does not make for very likely gargoyles. The Hetae, on the other hand, seems plausible as a Beast of the Korean Clan.
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"Toilet out of order. Please use floor below." - Sign in public restroom stall.

Does any one have any info on when issue #2 of the comic is going to be out? I checked the SLG website and they have set things for the first two weeks of November, but Gargoyles is still November tbd. So I guess it might possibly come out the third week of November at the earliest. I don't know I'm doubtful. I kinda wish they would just do a collection. It would be cheaper and wouldn't have to wait 5 months to read the next part of the story.

As for sales--I wonder how the reprint of #1 did. I don't think it made the top 300 but it might have put Garoyles sales above Tron.


Yeah, Tubae are definately not Gargs.

But can't you just see this critter wandering around Pukhan? It's *perfect*!

Vaevictis Asmadi

Okay, so I lied. I kind of can't see it either. For some oddreason, I keep picturing Motaro (from Mortal Kombat 3) sprouting Gargoyle wings and flying off. Too weird.

I personally can't see a Gargoyle/Tuba combo either. Unless Sevarius were to somehow make one.

But that could be musical. :P

KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]

Centaur-Gargs? No, I can't see it. Even Zaphiro supposedly has the same number of limbs as other Gargs, but his legs are just vestigial or something. Where would a Gargoyle get an extra pair of legs?

The creature I linked to is a Mongolian myth called a tuba. It is a giant slug with the head of a goat. But it's really friendly and kind of cute.

Vaevictis Asmadi

*vows to check it out in a little while*

I'm kind of now wondering if possibly Greg W. has half-Centaur/Half-Gargoyle character designs in mind for future use as a new character in the comic? I would find that interesting to see.

*massages his forehead*

KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]

Mostly mythical animal-type things. I'm not paying much attention to fairies, ghosts, or witches. I'm also not paying much attention to the more "out there" things that could be Gargoyles. I mean, if Quetzalcoatl and Unicorns are Gargoyles, than *anything* is a Gargoyle. I'm focusing on creaturs that are more similar to "typical" Gargoyles: but I did find one other flying snake god (in Melanesia) and a few hooved creatures that could be Gargs.

But to give you an idea of the sort of stuff I'm finding, check this one out:
Now, is that an awesome beast, or what? Not a Garg, but still.

Vaevictis Asmadi

Vaevictis Asmadi> Good. Yes. That works. Thank you. :-)

Now, when you say 'mythological creatures' what types exactly? Cause, y'know, there's more then one.

I can see you researching the kinds that inspired (Griffins for "Griff", Unicorns for "Una", etc.) some of the more fantastically physical-looking characters.

KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]

Well, I've been researching different mythological creatures from various cultures around the world, which is something I've been researching for years actually. But this time I'm paying attention to which ones could be legends about Gargoyles and Garg-Beasts.

Does that count as a topic?

Vaevictis Asmadi

Wow. This has been the 2nd post here all day. I don't like this. The board's getting slow this week.

Anybody have any Gargs-related topics?

KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]

I found the full head mask, with the hair, that slips over your head. It's good to know that somewhere there are more- it was starting to seem very strange that I couldn't find a single one. Thanks for your info. :)
Eden52 - [eden_52 at hotmail dot com]

Eden52-- I have two versions of the Goliath mask. One is strictly a face mask with an elastic band that slips behind your head to hold it on. My grandmother found that at a thrift store and got it for me. The other version is more of a full head mask that has the top and back of Goliath's head (hair), and pulls over your head like your average Halloween mask. I found it about five years ago at a costume shop in Phoenix, Arizona. It was the last one they had.

I've never seen another one in the wild (so to speak), and I don't think I've ever seen the full mask even advertized anywhere. I think it's safe to say you've got a relatively rare piece on your hands, there. ^_^

Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail dot com]
I do not suffer fools, gladly or otherwise.

Tron #2 was pushed back from August all the way to November.
JJ Gregarius

How well the Gargoyles comic is doing vs other Disney titles> I pulled the following statistics of Diamond Comic Distributor's sales from http://www.cbgxtra.com/Default.aspx?tabid=1528 . They list Diamond's top 300 comics each month. I don't know much about the world of comics, but I was under the impression that Diamond was the biggest if not only distributor of SLG comics, so these numbers should give us a good ballpark of how well the different titles are doing.

#192 Haunted Mansion 2 - $2.95 4,600 copies
#231 Marlene 1 - $3.95 2,500 copies
#237 Nightmares & Fairy Tales 15 - $2.95 2,200
#263 Little Gloomys Super Scary Monster Show 3 - $2.95 1,500 copies
#290 Johnny The Homicidal Maniac 6 - $2.95 1,100 copies

#275 Gloomcookie 26 - $2.95 1,900 copies

No comics in the top 300

#168 Tron 1 - $3.50 8,700 copies
#274 Nightmares & Fairy Tales 16 - $2.95 2,000 copies

#238 Wonderland 1 - $3.50 5,100 copies
#268 Haunted Mansion 3 $2.95 3,800 copies

#165 Gargoyles 1 - $3.50 7,500 copies
#264 Ursa Minors 1 - $2.95 1,700 copies
#297 Lenore 12 - $2.95 1,200 copies

#298 Screwtooth 1 - $2.95 1,700 copies

#235 Haunted Mansion 4 - $2.95 3,600 copies

Anyway, according to that Gargoyles (7600 copies) has been the second-best SLG title this year, falling second to Tron (8700). The other Disney titles have done relatively well; Wonderland 1 sold 5100 copies, and Haunted Mansion 2-4 have all been in the top 300 (1 might have been as well, I only looked at 2006 statistics), selling 4000 copies on average per issue. We also know that Gargoyles 1 sold out faster than any SLG title in history, although it's hard to say what that tells us (Did it sell really well? Or just significantly better than anticipated?).

Looking at SLG's other titles, the best selling one was Marlene 1, which sold 2500 copies, and Nightmares and Fairy Tales 15, which sold 2200. So comparatively, each of the Disney comics sold approximately twice as many issues as any other SLG title. This has to be exciting for SLG, but probably also problematic as they're a small press. I don't know how well they expected the Disney titles to fare, so who knows how prepared they were for their success.

As for putting their money into their most successful titles, that would be good for us but better still for Tron ;) Does anyone know if they've been delayed as well?

Anyway, I understand why they're behind, but I stand by my decision to cry if #2 doesn't come out in November. It won't help anything, but it'll make me feel a little better...


Hey everyone. I don't know if this is used more or the chat room, so I thought I'd post on both. This is the only Gargoyles site I could find that looked alive, so unlucky you guys get my question.
"Has anyone ever seen a Goliath mask before? I found one at a thrift store and I cannot find another one ANYWHERE in online searches or store sites. Any ideas on how rare this is or isn't?"
Thanks for any help you can give me. :)

Eden52 - [eden_52 at hotmail dot com]

My question is, how well are those other Disney Comic titles doing in comparison to Gargoyles Comic-which, we do know did very well for SLG. The other titles have had more than one issue have they not? You would think they would pour their resources in to the title that is the most successful. At least I would think so. Of course We're all biased here-we know that ^_^

Gorebash - <Or it could be for reasons independant of the delays, like SLG doesn't want to invest the kind revenues.of money a bi-monthly publishing schedule would create. SLG does seem to be producing more titles now then ever before so it may be that they've stretched their resources a bit thin, both money-wise and talent-wise.> That's about what I hope the problem is: they've maxed out their production capacity and they're cash-poor right now so they can't buy equipment/hire more talent to increase capacity without a significant increase in production to create the profits needed for that higher level of production.
Whatever happenned to simplicity?

Haha well you still have the webcomic. :P

if anyone is interested in the second issue I will post the cover.


Well, it was more a joke than a theory (the bit about David Hedgecock, I mean). Though it was inspired by the fact that his bio in #1 focused more on his adventures than on his drawing career (and that the latter was described in a rather flippant fashion) - which gave me some cause for concern.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

My problem isn't really how far the issues are spaced apart but the fact that the stories are split up over that period. If they did double-sized issues every 6 months, I think it would still be preferable to having half a story every 3. Get whole instalments out. It seems a bit of a shame they can't get a rotating art team for different stories as well if art is indeed an issue too. But with both of these, I guess SLG couldn't afford the overheads to fork out to creators despite the longer wait. Also, the Gargoyles S2v1 DVDs probably ought to be a cautionary tale on smaller selling better.
"It's important that everyone remain calm." -- Matt Bluestone, "Nightwatch"

Asatira-- Wonderland #2 is out. I've seen it at two different comic shops in my area.
Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail dot com]
I do not suffer fools, gladly or otherwise.

SLG delay> Does anyone know if the shift to quarterly applies to the other Disney titles as well? I really want Gargoyles #2 to come out on time (it's been delayed way too much, IMO), but I also want to get the next issue of Wonderland and Haunted Mansion (which is the only one, to my knowledge, that's had multiple issues out). I'd be suspicious if the shift to quarterly was only applied to Gargoyles.

I hope the next issue comes out soon as well, and I agree that Puck/Owen probably has his own room in the Eyrie building (feel kinda bad for Puck, can never show his true nature unless teaching Alex or defending him. Then again, after all the pranks he pulled on Demona, Goliath, and lord knows who else, he was kind of asking for it)

For what it's worth, I can tell you with some confidence this isn't a conspiracy to keep the Gargoyles down. The art was delayed. That's the official word from SLG; that's all we know.

WHY it was delayed hasn't been said. It could be that Dave Hedgecock had a family emergency or other serious issue that took precedence over work. Or Todd's theory of a trip to Fiji or similar exotic locale on Gargoyles money is true. Point is we don't know.

The switch to a quarterly publishing schedule makes me think that Dave Hedgecock is working on a lot more than just Gargoyles and that work load was a bigger burden than first thought. Or it could be for reasons independant of the delays, like SLG doesn't want to invest the kind of money a bi-monthly publishing schedule would create.

SLG does seem to be producing more titles now then ever before so it may be that they've stretched their resources a bit thin, both money-wise and talent-wise.

In any case, #2 will be published. So will #3. Give it time. Be patient. Good things will come to those who wait.

Gorebash - [gorebash at s8 dot org]

YEAH!! I AGREE! The second issued had BETTER come out in November! If it doesn't, I'll... Uh, I'll... Well, I'll just buy it in December then. Face it, there's really nothing we can do about the comic. Nothing constructive, that is. Complaining about it is just a waste of time and energy.
Phil - [p1anderson at go dot com]

If the comic doesn't come out in November, I will have to sit down and cry. SLG, you don't want that, do you? To make me cry? I need my Gargoyles comic!

Sigh. Don't mind me, I had two 2-hour exams today.


Heh. Once again, everyone took me seriously. Wow, I think most of the people in this CR would do well to remember what the arsonist said to the prostitute.

Todd: Maybe Disney is being Machiavellian. Certain figures in the Gargoyles universe were known for that. ( ;

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"I thought for a minute, and jumped back on dry land. Left one set of footprints on the Summerday Sands." -Ian Anderson

Warcrafter >Haha well you guys do have the webcomic. I should have the updates up in 2 days. I lvoe the cover for this month.
Shara - [jeanie54_2000 at yahoo dot com]

Todd Jensen>Personally I dont think disney is going to kill gargoyles. They just dont have any intrist in it. they are going with the trend like every other channel. FLASH ANIMATION AND JAPANESE ANIMATION. I don't like the new trends but heh not my generation anymore I sopose.
Disneys ultimate plan was to put all the old cartoons we children of the 80's used to watch disney afternoon etc on dvd so they would make tons of money on the dvd's. Unfortunately their plan failed cause then alot of people canceled there toon disney subscriptions.

Shara - [jeanie54_2000 at yahoo dot com]

VAEVICTIS - Yes, I'd just noticed that. I really have to start proofreading my posts more.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

Todd -- you mean "refuse SLG the rights" ?
Vaevictis Asmadi

If Disney wanted the comic to fail, they wouldn't have suggested Gargoyles to SLG when SLG came to Disney to ask about the other titles in the first place.
William C. Maune

I doubt that Disney would be actually scheming for the comic to fail, simply because it wouldn't make that much sense financially (it would be far more practical to simply refuse to deny Slave Labor Graphics the rights to use the characters if they wanted "Gargoyles" to stay dead). Truth to tell, I still think that if Disney wanted "Gargoyles" to be gone for good, it should have had Goliath and his clan killed by Castaway at the end of "Angels in the Night" (even though that might have been difficult to get around ABC's Standards and Practices department).

If we're going for conspiracy theories here, I'd prefer to go for the one where they made the mistake of paying David Hedgecock in advance and, instead of sitting down to do the drawing, he used the money to run off on another set of adventures, while taking care not to leave any forwarding address.... :)

Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

Hmm, suddenly, my stupid paranoid theory begins to carry more water. I wish it were carrying beer instead.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"I thought for a minute, and jumped back on dry land. Left one set of footprints on the Summerday Sands." -Ian Anderson

If the comic isn't released in November......well, i said that i was going to do something not right. No, im not just saying this to grab attention, I really mean it! This isn't the lame Warcrafter who made lame posts speaking, this is the other side.
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1 at sbcglobal dot net]
Humans are such easy prey for a gargoyle!

They had better release it in November is all I gotta say.

I am getting sick and tired of waiting for it.

KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]

Yeah, it's still scheduled for November but without a date.. that is a bad sign.
Vaevictis Asmadi

Is anybody else noticing the production schedule page on the slg website is being updated weekly? That's good news/bad news. The bad news is gargoyles comic #2 so afr isn't slated for release on either November 1 or November 8.

dph> Dang. I missed that, then.

Or I just plain forgot it.

KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]

It was confirmed at the gathering 2006 that Owen lives in the castle with David Xanatos. A Fan actually got that info.

See the link where I made the comment about learning that information.

Whatever happenned to simplicity?

I thought it would have been nicer if that movie had beeh more related to the Gargoyles franchise, like that movie we saw a few weeks ago.

And I'm pretty sure Greg has said that Owen lives in the Eyrie Building.

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
I've never figured out just what the Sharif has against the Casbah. Did it steal his pants and dunk his head in the toilet when they were in junior high or something?

I'm pretty sure that he lives in the Eyrie Building, or somewhere in the area at least. I see the castle itself more as Xanatos's private residence, a very upscale version of the owner's apartments over the business set-up. I'm not sure if X's trust in Owen is enough to cross that personal line, but I can definately see in Eyrie building (a building that large may have some living quarters), or in a connected building.

KC - Re: Owen - Considering he's the personal assistant to Xanatos, he'd have to live either in the castle-proper or have a place to live somewhere in the Eyrie Buidling itself. From what I've seen of most big business people, they tend to want to keep their aides or most trusted people close (less likelyhood of anyone snagging secrets or leverage against them, through this people).

As for the "stone-face" aspect of Owen... well, Puck admitted it as much when he explained himself to Oberon: he was out to "out-Vogle Preston Vogle", when he created the guise of Owen Burnett. If you watch the episodes where Preston appears "Outfoxed(?)" and "Golem", Preston does pretty much have a cool exterior.

So, as long as Puck remains in Owen's form, he's pretty much stuck "playing the part" as it were, I should think.

What does anyone else think, hm?

Maintain and Check Six!

Stephen Sobotka Jr
Please Read at this link *click it* . . . Can You Help?

Does Owen live at the Castle? He probably does, because I've rarely seen him elsewhere. I just wondered if anyone knew whether he had his own place. Lame topic, but... *shrugs*

Also, do you guys think he's ALWAYS stone-faced or is that just a facade for when other people are around? And, no, I don't mean when he's Puck.

KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]

Okaaaayyy... that video was ... "amusing" I guess.
Vaevictis Asmadi

Looks like I just missed the top ten. Ah, well. Hope everyone's well and for interesting discussions this week.



Matt - [St dot Louis, Missouri, USA]

I am.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Always be good except when you're bad. Always be happy, except when you're sad." -Jeepers Creepers, Semi-Star

hm, i found this amusing toward us gargoyles fans. Maybe you will too?


and no im not ninth.

Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1 at sbcglobal dot net]
Humans are such easy prey for a gargoyle!

**Pounces in after Chameleongirl**

Eight! XD

Kythera of Anevern

Lucky 7 :D
Chameleon may changer her spots, but she refuses to do plaid.

"Never put off 'til tomorrow what you can do the day after tomorrow" - Mark Twain

Okay, make that fifth!
"Those aren't tumors, you moron, that's your finger on the lens!"

Wow... been a while since I've been in here.


"Those aren't tumors, you moron, that's your finger on the lens!"

4th. dang, i was at the computer too.
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1 at sbcglobal dot net]
Humans are such easy prey for a gargoyle!

Guess I'm 3rd.
Blaqthourne & Crimson Fury
Music selection: Symphonic Suite "Dragon Quest IV: The People Who are Shown the Way"


Most brilliant person on Earth: Whoever invented the game Hungry Hungry Hippos.

Blaqthourne & Crimson Fury
Music selection: Symphonic Suite "Dragon Quest IV: The People Who are Shown the Way"

Vaevictis Asmadi

Whatever happenned to simplicity?