Re: "Reign of the Gargoyles"

There's another silly B-grade Gargoyle movie called "Gargoyle Girls." I've only read reviews and seen a few screenshots, but it looked amusing.

Plot Summary from Rotten Tomatoes:
" ..a mediocre children's party magician, receives as his inheritance a mysterious crate containing items left to him from his deceased uncle Niegel. Among the items, a ring that releases two magically imprisoned 13th century gargoyles."

A review can be found at "http://www.b-independent.com/reviews/gargoylegirls.htm"
Leo - [<- "Gargoyle Girls"]
posted @ Sun, Mar 25, 2007 11:51:12 pm EDT from 68.107.157.101

Yeah I remember MSTing TGC at the Gathering in Williamsburg. It was hilarious.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"You don't want justice... You want vengence..." -Elisa, "Hunter's Moon"
posted @ Sun, Mar 25, 2007 11:25:57 pm EDT from 24.207.163.239

Siren>> "Or even better, we could watch TGC and make fun of those....but that may be too painful for some."

Already been done ;): http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Barracks/1733/mgtntro.html

Jade Griffin's site, not mine.
Alex Garg
posted @ Sun, Mar 25, 2007 10:26:01 pm EDT from 68.48.114.157

The only one I'd be unable to watch would be "Generations." I had to watch that one too damn many times in order to summarize it. I shall watch it no more.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Good... bad... I'm the guy with the gun." -Bruce Campbell
posted @ Sun, Mar 25, 2007 8:07:14 pm EDT from 71.62.204.109

Oops, sorry Warcrafter. Red writing threw me off :P Warcrafter mentioned it.

HoE> Yes, I love MST3000. It would be a blast for fans to sit around and make fun of it. Or even better, we could watch TGC and make fun of those....but that may be too painful for some. But who knows, maybe we can turn TGC into a Rocky Horror type experience. I'll bring the water guns. We can shoot Egon Pax with them
Siren
posted @ Sun, Mar 25, 2007 6:56:24 pm EDT from 68.202.76.113

I only use a bank account on Amazon anyway, not a credit card. I'm not going to use Paypal. If SLG doesn't even allow people to use a card directly on their website without having to go through Paypal or some other middlemen, then I'm just going to use Amazon.
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Sun, Mar 25, 2007 4:27:51 pm EDT from 209.162.56.94

And sorry for the double post, but:

<We should watch the two SciFi gargoyles movies at the Gathering just to make fun of them.>

I'd be game. My brothers and I were raised to a large degree on MST.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Good... bad... I'm the guy with the gun." -Bruce Campbell
posted @ Sun, Mar 25, 2007 4:27:29 pm EDT from 71.62.204.109

Siren: Um, that wasn't me. I did mention that I will only watch them if they star God. Which, ironically, came up in conversation when I was out last night.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Here I stand, hell-horde! Unbowed! But understand: if it is my destiny that I should perish this day, I shall not go down easily... and I shall NOT go down alone!" -Doctor Doom
posted @ Sun, Mar 25, 2007 4:10:21 pm EDT from 71.62.204.109

Anyone watch that Reign of the Gargoyles HoE mentioned? I am watching it now (DVR is my best friend), its nearly finished. By the time I post this, it will be.

Gotta love SciFi movies....never sure which is worse. The acting or the graphics. I feel the acting. Its very painful to watch. Especially the Germans...bad accents and they too hard to remind you they are playing Germans. They keep the gargoyles pretty shadowed....I'm guessing to save money on graphics. They are hardly even in the movie.
The story goes that pagans (always out to make them look like evil devil worshipers, *sigh*), originally create the gargoyles, but for whatever reason, the gargoyles are turned back to stone and are all over this old castle. I either missing hearing the reason for them being in stone or they never even said it in the movie. The Nazis find them and bring them back to life, but they have no love of the Nazis or the Allies. Demona would love these guys. The kill some Nazis and take off and just attack randomly. Villiages, aircraft, its all game for them. Ah, finally saw a close up of their faces. Ugly son of a b****es, lol. Certainly ain't no Goliath and they have really wimpy tails. And they apparently breed like rabbits. The movie started off with maybe a dozen, now its like 1000s. And it literally is raining gargoyles. LOL God I miss the series so much. We should watch the two SciFi gargoyles movies at the Gathering just to make fun of them.
Siren
posted @ Sun, Mar 25, 2007 2:42:11 pm EDT from 68.202.76.113

Wow, the ultimate countdown... I believe we started out at around:

3,850 Days Until New Stories!
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"You don't want justice... You want vengence..." -Elisa, "Hunter's Moon"
posted @ Sun, Mar 25, 2007 1:49:59 pm EDT from 24.207.163.239

Three days till new "Gargoyles" stories!
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"I'll tell you one thing, if the primates that we came from had known that someday politicians would come out of the gene pool, they'd've stayed up in the trees and written evolution off as a bad idea ... I always thought the opposable thumb was overrated." - Captain John Sheridan
posted @ Sun, Mar 25, 2007 1:23:43 pm EDT from 67.87.175.245

Did #2 go right to Amazon.com because I am waiting to finish my newest order for books till the comic is released, that way I don't have several orders out there. I FINALLY ordered #2 from Amazon. But I put it off because I was making an order from Amazon, waiting for something else to be released, and also I have really screwy logic. I thought if I ordered #2 closer to when #3 was actually being released, it wouldn't feel quite so long. LOL But I am so hyped for #3 since the last two have mostly been a recap of The Journey. I wanna see some new stories. I was reading the little letter from Greg at the end about apologizing for how it took so long for #2 to be released and how they were getting back on schedule....oops! Hehehe. Eh, crap happens. Hopefully Disney will be faster about approving future ones.
Siren
posted @ Sun, Mar 25, 2007 12:24:17 pm EDT from 68.202.76.113

*long-ish post... sorry!*

Hmm... seems to me that whether we ignore him or not is a moot point. He'll leave when he decides he's bored, and I suspect that we have little to do with it aside from the fact that when he says something, we'll all see it. Rousing our ire, or getting a reaction from us seems to be only *one* of the "benefits", but not the whole.

To me, it seems more like he enjoys posting nasty comments just for the sake of posting nasty comments. Otherwise, he'd be here every few hours or every few days, as opposed to a random post here or there every few weeks. I doubt that us ignoring him (or noticing him) does much to ensure his return (or lack of). He comes and goes as he pleases, and he'll either tire of this or he won't.

There's not much we can do, but I figure that if there *is* something that can be done, to do it. Thus why I'm with Siren on this one.

But that's just me. *shrugs*

Vaevictis - I only just started using Paypal recently. Since I'm using Paypal Canada, the terms and such may be different. But some info on accounts and such is here: https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_help-ext&nodeid=25901&leafid=609949&prior_transaction_id=518&answer_id=16777218

You'd probably just want a personal account, but you can upgrade at any time. Questions/answers and such on Personal accounts are here: http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_help-ext&eloc=0&loc=184&source_page=_home&flow=

I only needed a bank account, and I *think* that you only need a credit card if you want to be a "verified" user. I didn't trust it either when I was first considering getting an account, and though I've only used it once since I got everything set up it seems to be safe.

Hope that helps. :)
The Sadistic Cow
I believe the children are our future... unless we stop them NOW!
posted @ Sun, Mar 25, 2007 11:54:28 am EDT from 24.150.120.87

Patrick, that is actually a good point. You are right. The best solution is to totally ignore them and just move on.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"You don't want justice... You want vengence..." -Elisa, "Hunter's Moon"
posted @ Sun, Mar 25, 2007 11:52:18 am EDT from 24.207.163.239

"So I propose we make it a rule that if someone wishes to respond to a troll they are free to do so outside this Room, but not here."

This will solve nothing. Trolls love to bring private e-mails right back into the room they are trolling in an effort to make the person who contacted them look just as trollish. Look, let's face it... even discussing strategies to deal with trolls is feeding the trolls. Trolls are just a sad reality of internet forums, much as spam is a sad reality of e-mail. You've just got to block and delete and go on with your virtual life.

89 days left until The Gathering 2007 in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2007]
"When you work with handcuffs as long as I have, you pick up a few tricks." - Elisa Maza, "Double Jeopardy"
posted @ Sun, Mar 25, 2007 11:25:30 am EDT from 65.43.179.142

I fully support Siren in calling his parents.

And I agree with Matt that some people in here have been feeding the trolls and making the situation worse. Don't feed the trolls.
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Sun, Mar 25, 2007 11:18:21 am EDT from 209.162.56.94

"He's been a lot more abusive before, and we've ignored him and he hasn't gone away..."

- Sorry, Siren, but I don't think we've ever ignored him. I can't think of an instance where he other trolls where he has been outright ignored. Someone ALWAYs comments on it, which I honestly believe is what encourages the troll to return. It's like negotiating with terrorists, it may seem to solve a problem, but it really only makes things much worse. If Arlo had come into the Room, posted his silliness and we had just gone on with our usual day to day in here without saying a thing about it, I think he'd be having a lot less fun right now. I'm sure he is eagerly loving every response we have to this. And others have too.

I think the best policy we can have is to totally ignore these losers. If they keep coming back at least it will be clear that we were the mature ones, but I tend to think that if they are always ignored, they will eventually leave. Even if only one of us comments that is too much. So I propose we make it a rule that if someone wishes to respond to a troll they are free to do so outside this Room, but not here.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"You don't want justice... You want vengence..." -Elisa, "Hunter's Moon"
posted @ Sun, Mar 25, 2007 10:43:41 am EDT from 24.207.163.239

I've got Wednesday off from work, which means that I can A) buy the comic in the morning if I wanted to, and B) have the rest of the day to enjoy it.

:D
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
'Ignore Me!' - Venture Bros.
posted @ Sun, Mar 25, 2007 7:04:34 am EDT from 69.95.91.38

Phonecian: (sorry if I misspelled that) I feel the exact same way. I feel like it's a personal betrayal of my comic book shop, hahah. I'm a little odd, I know.

PurpleGoldfish: Maybe you don't have to avoid the room if everyone does a ****SPOILER ALERT****** kind of thing. Hm? :)
Samuel - [AnglOfHellO at AOL dot com]
"What sorcery is this?!"
posted @ Sun, Mar 25, 2007 2:39:14 am EDT from 64.12.116.15

Unfortunately I will probably have to wait for at least a week after wedensday to get mine, seeing as how there's no comic shops in the area. I suppose I'll have to avoid coming in here until I get the issue.
Purplegoldfish
posted @ Sun, Mar 25, 2007 1:53:50 am EDT from 152.163.101.9

I'm with you there, Samuel -- I'm picking up the comic at the local Comic shop near my University, and not the one near my home (which is where I bought the last two issues).

It does has me a tad worried that my non-purchase there may affect the sales of the shop (yeah, I know its just one sale, BUT I don't know how well they sell there -- I knew I should have asked the storeclerks in December).

But yes, I AM LOVING the fact that it is THIS WEDNESDAY!!!! :D :D
Phoenician - [theoneandonlyphoenician at yahoo dot com]
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Sun, Mar 25, 2007 1:35:56 am EDT from 157.242.214.194

Siren: I also did not mean to offend. I tend to be idealistic, and it doesn't always work out, but it's still a quality I admire. I also admire dedication and intelligence, both of which are qualities you display. I think it's good that you have a sense of justice, and if I did, I did not mean to make you feel criticised or any other negative emotion. :)

For the most part, I think a lot of thse people in this comment room display a lot of good qualties, and I'm glad that you all tolerate my presence. :)

I'm in a very good mood, and I cannot wait for Wednesday. Even though I have to buy the comic from my a shop which is not my regular comic shop. :\ But, worse things have happened. :)
Samuel - [AnglOfHellO at AOL dot com]
"What sorcery is this?!"
posted @ Sun, Mar 25, 2007 12:13:30 am EDT from 64.12.116.15

Siren: Just for the record I didn't really think what you did was wrong. But like I said, I'm just not sure how effective it would be. I can tell from the way you talk, that you're a good parent. But there really is no way of telling how Arlo's parents would react. They could be completely computer illiterate and think you're some kind of nutcase. I know you were responding to multiple people, but I just wanted to clear up what I ment.
Ozzie Arcane - [ozziearcane at wowway dot com]
"Hello Booby, this is a trap!" - Eggplant Wizard from Captain N
posted @ Sat, Mar 24, 2007 11:51:18 pm EDT from 69.14.122.91

So, basically, I'm saying that that's why I myself approve of Siren's actions.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"There really isn't any need for bloodshed. You just do it with a little more finesse. If you can slip a tablet into someone's coffee, then it avoids an awful lot of mess." -The Police ("Murder by Numbers")
posted @ Sat, Mar 24, 2007 10:57:52 pm EDT from 24.125.58.211

I'd just like to add that I was a lot like Arlo once several years (and what feels like another life) ago, so I know how these people think. The best way to deal with them is: if they use fists, use a knife. If they use a knife, use a gun. Ignoring doesn't do much. Just my own thoughts, from experience.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"There really isn't any need for bloodshed. You just do it with a little more finesse. If you can slip a tablet into someone's coffee, then it avoids an awful lot of mess." -The Police ("Murder by Numbers")
posted @ Sat, Mar 24, 2007 10:35:04 pm EDT from 24.125.58.211

I never said what I did was the right or mature thing to do. But one gets to a point where they had enough. He's been a lot more abusive before, and we've ignored him and he hasn't gone away. Will that likely do it? Perhaps not, but he should know there are ALWAYS reprocutions to abuse, even online. And he's not as anonymous as he thinks. He comes here and harrasses people. A taste of his own medicine (and his mother's) should teach him a lesson. He comes here just to abuse the system. This is a place that can't ban an IP so easily. And to ban his is to ban others...and he knows that and uses that against us to continually come here. He's posted some pretty rancid disgusting things here before....what would a parent think about that and this board since we are forced to allow it? He could just as easily repeat the F word over and over again...do you think a parent would want their kid here? And if I came here for the first time and saw that, no I wouldn't leave. I've been online to know enough and to read enough to see that the guy harrasses people. Gore posted a lengthy paragraph about him. That's all one needs to read to understand what lengths other feel they need to go to get rid of trolls like that. Again, I never said I did the right or respondsible thing. But you know what, if I didn't do it, believe me, someone else would have. And I certainly have even more info then what I posted on this comment room. Including real names. I didn't post it. Even if I didn't post the address...put your phone number in a Google search and see what you get. Its all right there in black and white.

I'm not here to please the world and do what other people think I should do. I felt posting that was a last resort. I won't post his real name. I know I posted more then I should, but I have little regret over it. Actually scratch that, no regret. If MY CHILD was acting like that here **I** would want to know. So if any phone calls alert his parents to his online behavior, maybe it will make a man out of him someday to own up to his mistakes. And sure, if my child's address and phone number was posted, I would be ticked off....but why were they posted? Because the child was being a deliquent and the members of the board were at their wits end. He started it. He can finish it. Either by leaving us alone or becoming a contributing member of the board.

This is who I am. When I get to my wits end, I may use what wits I have to go all out. If it bites me in the ass, its my ass. Arlo has made it clear he doesn't WANT to be a contributing member of this board. I would still be perfectly fine if he ever changed his mind. I would apologize for posting what I did. But now? No. Sorry. I rather be hated for who I am, then loved for who I'm not. And if that means I might be hated or lose some respect for posting it, then so be it. I'm okay with it. I'll still shake your hand and have a great time with you at the Gathering.

And that's all I have to say about it.
Siren
posted @ Sat, Mar 24, 2007 10:28:08 pm EDT from 68.202.76.113

I kind agree with Demonskrye. The best way to deal with a troll usually would be to ignore them. But the way this comment room makes kind of a unique scenario where someone can't just ban the guy from the place(As far as I can tell anyhow). Of course on my own forum I would ban people who try to troll the place and I'm sure people here would too if they could. I'm pretty new myself and I didn't really feel "unwelcome" because of the way they were treating Arlo. I mean he's acting like a jerk so I was just ignoring it. I'm not sure how much good calling his parents would do however, in alot of cases when a kid is that poorly behaved and irresponsible it seems he didn't fall too far from the tree. And bad parents tend to get mad when someone tells them there kid did wrong because they tend to block it and go "NO MY BABY IS AN ANGEL!"

On another note, I ordered the comics from Amazon because the first 2 links for the comic sent me to Amazon and I've never had a problem like this with Amazon for anything else that I've ordered. I order DVDs and Video Games from their all the time.
Ozzie Arcane - [ozziearcane at wowway dot com]
"Hello Booby, this is a trap!" - Eggplant Wizard from Captain N
posted @ Sat, Mar 24, 2007 10:13:16 pm EDT from 69.14.122.91

I think that's a very responsible attitude, Demonskyre.

I'm so excited for the comics. !!! :)
Samuel - [AnglOfHellO at AOL dot com]
"What sorcery is this?!"
posted @ Sat, Mar 24, 2007 8:36:58 pm EDT from 64.12.116.15

I haven't had Paypal as long as some other people, but I can't complain. Paid for my Gathering 2007 Registration on it, and it didn't try to bite me and/or throw me in the basement.

Kythera: Hmmm, I didn't know you could do that with Paypal. I might have to talk to them. Something I ordered on ebay a while ago, like back in December, still has not come in, and the seller does not want to seem to do anything to rectify the situation.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"There really isn't any need for bloodshed. You just do it with a little more finesse. If you can slip a tablet into someone's coffee, then it avoids an awful lot of mess." -The Police ("Murder by Numbers")
posted @ Sat, Mar 24, 2007 8:28:06 pm EDT from 24.125.58.211

Umm....

Let me say first that I do think that pretty much all of the regular posters here are very intelligent and nice people. But I think this whole recent troll issue has caused things to get somewhat nasty (which is generally what trolls set out to do in the first place.) I totally accept that not everyone is going to go along with what i personally think is the best way of handling things. I'm not too terribly bothered by the occasional offensive language, though we have been asked before to knock it off. But I think when we're getting to the point where someone's personal information is getting posted in the room for any reason, it's crossed a line. Yes, it's readily available out there and the guy was asking for trouble. But I personally feel pretty uncomfortable with how this makes the room look. There's been talk before about keeping this site a fairly welcoming place for fans old and new, young and not as young. But what are newcomers to the room going to think if they come in here and see a person's personal information posted for all to see with encouragements to call that person and harass them (even if they may rather deserve it)? I'm not sure I would have stuck around here if I saw something like that the first time I came. If I were a parent and my kid was checking the site out, I'd probably deem it off limits.

I do not like trolls. Again, I have my own thoughts on how to deal with them which I think I've stated pretty clearly in the past. And again, I don't expect everyone to react in what I think is the best way. Heck, if you want to go look up a troll's publicly posted info yourself and do whatever you think is best with it within legal boundaries, I wouldn't know and probably wouldn't much care. But Putting that info up in here just seems like too much. It gives anyone who's coming here for the first time the message that "if you cross someone in here, this might happen to you". Taken in context, it's an attempt to take some kind of action against someone who does nothing but antagonize the regular posters in hopes of getting negative reactions and attention (and he does). But is someone coming here for the first time going to see that? Or are they only going to scroll down far enough to see someone's personal info and say "this place isn't safe".

I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, but I don't feel comfortable saying nothing about this either.
Demonskrye
posted @ Sat, Mar 24, 2007 7:47:46 pm EDT from 146.115.115.164

Add me to the list of people who have only had good experiences with PayPal thus far. If I recall correctly, you don't even *need* to add a credit card. Last time I checked, it might have been a bank account OR credit card... I remember registering many many moons ago when I only had a savings account and NO credit card.

Here's a nice anecdote... I ordered something from a website for Halloween of 2005 in early October. Halloween had come and gone and I couldn't get in touch with the seller OR a webmaster... nothing. I'd paid with PayPal, so I filed a complaint. In less than two weeks, I'd gotten part of my money refunded--only as much as PayPal could immediately draw from the seller's PayPal account. Over a year later, PayPal finally got the rest of my money from them and the issue was FINALLY resolved--I guess PayPal just kept dogging them until they got the rest of my refund. All of the funds went right back into my PayPal account. Make of that what you will.
Kythera of Anevern
posted @ Sat, Mar 24, 2007 6:22:45 pm EDT from 67.164.33.100

I've used Paypal both for sending and recieving money and completely trust it.
Siren
posted @ Sat, Mar 24, 2007 5:13:22 pm EDT from 68.202.76.113

Vaevictis> PayPal is quite safe, I've been using it for seven years already, and I have had no problems thus far.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"I'll tell you one thing, if the primates that we came from had known that someday politicians would come out of the gene pool, they'd've stayed up in the trees and written evolution off as a bad idea ... I always thought the opposable thumb was overrated." - Captain John Sheridan
posted @ Sat, Mar 24, 2007 2:16:13 pm EDT from 67.87.175.245

I bought issue 1 from amazon shipping is a bit cheaper but took over a month so I bought issue 2 from SLG paypal it was about $13 (about £6 here)and it took only 2 weeks
Vicky82 - [Vickyfanofwwe at aol dot com]
posted @ Sat, Mar 24, 2007 1:48:38 pm EDT from 195.93.21.4

Does SLG allow credit cards, or is it only Paypal?

The thing is, I really try to limit how many websites have my credit card number.
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Sat, Mar 24, 2007 12:45:03 pm EDT from 209.162.56.94

Warcrafter: I make it a point not to watch any original movies on SciFi, unless they have God (aka Bruce Campbell) in them.

The "Dune" and "Children of Dune" miniseries, however, I would recommend.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Here I stand, hell-horde! Unbowed! But understand: if it is my destiny that I should perish this day, I shall not go down easily... and I shall NOT go down alone!" -Doctor Doom
posted @ Sat, Mar 24, 2007 12:35:03 pm EDT from 71.62.204.109

Vaevictis Asmadi - I've been using Paypal for 4 years regularly without any problems at all *knock on wood*, but of course you have to go with what you feel comfortable with. Thing is, if you'll buy through amazon with a credit card, why not SLG?
Wingless
posted @ Sat, Mar 24, 2007 12:11:47 pm EDT from 74.105.128.170

I don't trust Paypal so I'm stuck with stupid, slow Amazon. I probably won't get a hold of #3 until late May.
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Sat, Mar 24, 2007 10:54:21 am EDT from 209.162.56.94

Wingless> SLG does ship overseas, but if it's further than Cananda the price gets pretty steep ($13 for an order of $25 or less)
Chameleongirl
Chameleon may change her spots, but she refuses to do plaid
posted @ Sat, Mar 24, 2007 9:05:13 am EDT from 202.87.162.31

Here's something I thought you guys would be interested in. Tonight, on the SciFi channel, there is this new movie premiering called "Reign of the Gargoyles" Basically the plot takes place in WW2 and the allied forces have to face gargoyles brought to life by the nazis. Just a heads up for anyone who has the SciFi channel and might want to check it out.
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1 at sbcglobal dot net]
Humans are such easy prey for a gargoyle!........oh, and my new gamertag on xbox live for 360 is "I am Goliath"
posted @ Sat, Mar 24, 2007 3:56:53 am EDT from 69.231.230.90

Matt - "More than a little giddy . . . ."

I past that stage a good time ago -- I just watched my S2V1 DVDs today, seeing the episodes from "Revelations" to "Protection" (I've been showing one of dormbuddies the series in order, and that's where he currently is right now.)

Man, those were good episodes. Some random personal comments on them:

-I love Jack Dane!
-I would SO hate to be in that Hotel Cabal.
-Thailog's maniacal laugh just sounds beyond evil.
-Sevarious playing his role is still hilarious, especially his "ten-thousand dollar denomination" line.
-Hyena's cyboric transformation STILL gives me the creeps (more so than Jackel or Wolf's)
And Dracon's faint after being dropped by Goliath still cracks me up!

If any of you are cuious, my friend's favorite episodes to date have been the multi-parters, the Mirror, the Silver Falcon, and Protection. He also enjoyed Leader of the Pack and Upgrade as well. He's loving the series, but I think he's just in awe sometimes with how Gargoyles maintains such a huge ensemble.
Phoenician - [theoneandonlyphoenician at yahoo dot com]
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Sat, Mar 24, 2007 3:44:20 am EDT from 157.242.220.61

Ozzie Arcane - Why not order your comics directly from SLG? The link is on the left of the page here. They take paypal and ship pretty fast. In fact, wait a week and order the third one as well :o) Unless your outside North America-whereas I don't believe they ship overseas.

Just a suggestion.
Wingless
posted @ Sat, Mar 24, 2007 1:07:35 am EDT from 74.105.128.170

Harvestor: So TMNT was good? I just saw 300 instead but I plan on seeing TMNT later.

I ordered issues 1 and 2 of the Gargoyles comic from Amazon and it says they're not gonna ship until April 21. ><

BTW, just curious is it considered rude to try to plug your own site around here?
Ozzie Arcane - [ozziearcane at wowway dot com]
"Hello Booby, this is a trap!" - Eggplant Wizard from Captain N
posted @ Sat, Mar 24, 2007 12:57:04 am EDT from 69.14.122.91

Siren: <if he's dumb enough to keep advertising his webpage to make it THAT easy for us then he fully deserves a good many calls.> And here I thought he was more intelligent than that. Ah, well, no matter. It's playtime...

In other news, just got back from seeing TMNT and was very impressed with it. I definitely agree with whoever it was (might have been Gore) that said if we ever see something feature-length concerning Gargoyles, it would have potential if they decided to do it with 3-Dimensional animation.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Here I stand, hell-horde! Unbowed! But understand: if it is my destiny that I should perish this day, I shall not go down easily... and I shall NOT go down alone!" -Doctor Doom
posted @ Sat, Mar 24, 2007 12:38:09 am EDT from 71.62.204.109

*stares at all of Arlo's "HAHAHA's"*

o.O

It's unfortunate all that hahaha-ing didn't cause him to pass out from lack of oxygen.

And YAYE, looking forward to issue 3! ^_^
The Sadistic Cow
I believe the children are our future... unless we stop them NOW!
posted @ Fri, Mar 23, 2007 11:25:07 pm EDT from 24.150.120.87

Matt>Perhaps, but sometimes a troll needs a little of his own medicine. And to be reminded that he is not as anonymous as he thinks. I surely doubt Theresa (likely his mother) will be happy with him. People can't go online and abuse it and the people on it because they think they are safe. It is SO easy to find all that info and so much more. Like his real name and such. Which I do have now. He now has a choice, go on with that little life he has and leave us alone, or I will make a call....mom to mom about his deliquent and abusive behavior online. His parents should know about his social skills and lack their off. His recent behavior is extreemly childish, but he has sunk to some disgusting lows before. I still am perfectly fine with him returning as a NORMAL member here and posting actual intelligent things. But if he wants to abuse the way this site is set up and that he can't be banned, then I will just make a phone call. Easy as that. Everything is archieved here and I can find some of those disgusting remarks he made before and if I must, email the pages to them to show them he's got issues.
Siren
posted @ Fri, Mar 23, 2007 9:31:38 pm EDT from 68.202.76.113

Geee, I'll bet Arlo is loving all this. Ho hum...

If people want to play games with Arlo, perhaps it'd be best if they do so outside the Room... Bringing up stuff in here just invites him back into the Room. And most of us would rather ignore him til he leaves us alone than outright attack him back.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"You don't want justice... You want vengence..." -Elisa, "Hunter's Moon"
posted @ Fri, Mar 23, 2007 9:21:00 pm EDT from 24.207.163.239

Oh, and the Illuminati put me up to that. It was either do that or they'd harm my Gargoyles DVDs and comics. They are worth far more.
Siren
posted @ Fri, Mar 23, 2007 9:05:02 pm EDT from 68.202.76.113

Arlo's provider will give a rat's ass about what he does here....but a quick Whois search to find this public infomation....maybe a call to his mommy about his online behavior will be enough to take care of him....and even if not, it would still be fun anyways....

So Whois search his domain heroofcamelot.com and get this....(if he's dumb enough to keep advertising his webpage to make it THAT easy for us then he fully deserves a good many calls. Remember *67 and then dial his phone number to block your's.

=-=-=-=
Visit AboutUs.org for more information about HEROOFCAMELOT.COM
AboutUs: HEROOFCAMELOT.COM

Registration Service Provided By: WestHost Inc.
Contact: hostmaster@westhost.com

Domain name: HEROOFCAMELOT.COM

Registrant Contact:

Arlo Duff (heroofcamelot@heroofcamelot.com)
+1.2018764883
Fax: 1.-
100 Waldo Ave. Apt. 3
Jersey City, NJ 07306
US

Administrative Contact:

Arlo Duff (heroofcamelot@heroofcamelot.com)
+1.2018764883
Fax: 1.-
100 Waldo Ave. Apt. 3
Jersey City, NJ 07306
US

Technical Contact:

Arlo Duff (heroofcamelot@gmail.com)
+1.2018764883
Fax: .1
100 Waldo Ave. Apt. 3
Jersey City, NJ 07306
US

Status: Locked

Name Servers:
ns1.west-datacenter.net
ns2.west-datacenter.net

Creation date: 11 Oct 2006 14:24:36
Expiration date: 11 Oct 2008 14:24:36
Siren
posted @ Fri, Mar 23, 2007 9:03:23 pm EDT from 68.202.76.113

<--- More than a little giddy.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both human... and gargoyle!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Fri, Mar 23, 2007 8:15:28 pm EDT from 24.207.163.239

Five Days till New Gargoyles stories!
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"I'll tell you one thing, if the primates that we came from had known that someday politicians would come out of the gene pool, they'd've stayed up in the trees and written evolution off as a bad idea ... I always thought the opposable thumb was overrated." - Captain John Sheridan
posted @ Fri, Mar 23, 2007 5:36:42 pm EDT from 67.87.175.245

In fact, a "Vows" Demona trying to prevent the alliance wouldn't be that bad of a pilot/crossover FOR Dark Ages!

But of course, Greg DOES have that "Three Brothers" tale already in the "Canon-in-training," no?
Phoenician - [theoneandonlyphoenician at yahoo dot com]
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Fri, Mar 23, 2007 5:04:03 pm EDT from 157.242.194.195

Jurgan> It's an interesting thought, but I just can't see Demona working against the original Hudson/Malcolm alliance. At the time, in 971, Demona was about 33 years old, which is pretty much a gargoyle teenager (this is even younger than the Trio were in 994). Not to mention that I doubt she had had much contact with many humans in her life. I don't think she was nearly as anti-human, if she was at all, as she came to be later. Since it was the bad treatment of the Clan by the Wyvern humans, plus the abuse by the Archmage, plus the warnings from her future self and Goliath's future self that led her to plan the betrayal of Castle Wyvern. Even after the Massacre, she was still not nearly as anti-human as she would be by the 1990's. I think after the Massacre she didn't like or trust humans, but she wasn't genocidal yet. It took the killing of another Clan, the creation of the Hunter and her fallout with Macbeth to finally really push her towards total hatred. And I'd be willing to bet that events she experienced or witnessed throughout the centuries pushed her more in that direction.
My point is that I don't see why the 971 Demona would want to stop the alliance. Hudson was her leader and felt it was a good idea. Thats that.

Now I do think that the "Vows" Demona going back to 971 to stop the alliance is cool. Imagine she tried to do it, failed, and so went back to 975 to try again, only to be stopped by Goliath. That would make a cool episode for "Dark Ages". Creativity Demon: Demona appears in 971 and encounters Hyppolyta. She attempts to explain how the alliance will destroy the clan which sets Hyppolyta down her path in which she argues with Demona and resents Goliath's promotion.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both human... and gargoyle!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Fri, Mar 23, 2007 3:24:35 pm EDT from 24.207.163.239

Demonskrye> Yeah, I'm dealing it okay. stuff happens, y'know? Glad I don't live in L.A., for once. It's probably a million times worse there.

Gorebash> Whew. I wondered for a second.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
'Ignore Me!' - Venture Bros.
posted @ Fri, Mar 23, 2007 3:23:20 pm EDT from 69.95.30.178

Arlo,

You got us. We, the members of a, shall we say, Illuminati-like element within the Gargoyles fandom, discovered that the people at Disney had accelerated their review and approval process of Gargoyles #3 and were ready to release on March 21. In order to mask Disney's newfound efficiency -- because that would undermine our ability to incite lines of conversation which trash Disney and its ilk -- we seized shipments while sending forged communications to the executives of Slave Labor Graphics to insist on the original March 28 release date. Unfortunately, a leak in our organization found a way to get in touch with Diamond Comics Distribution and had them publish the original March 21 release date.

The leak has since been plugged; and let me say as I flip through the pages of issue #3, it is quite the tale.

However, we had hoped to use the leak to our advantage and that the March 21 publication would cause sufficient confusion within the fandom so as to create tension between the fans, SLG, and Disney to undermine and destroy the franchise. It's not the most intricate or clever of our plans, I'll admit as much, but we can only do this kind of subculture engineering in our spare time.

However, we are more than happy with our progress on keeping back the DVD of Season 2, Volume 2, and withholding the episodes that were produced in the periods between "Grief" and "Kingdom" and "Ill Met by Moonlight" and "Future Tense," including the episode with the kiss between Angela and Elisa, periods of time which Greg has previously had to chalk up to *heh* production delays due to rapid increases in episode demands from Buena Vista. And our plans for Bad Guys are, well, quite beautiful if I may boast.

Oh, have I said too much?

But your shrewd, albeit ill-articulated, investigation and your proficiency with typing the H and A keys in rapid succession for extensive periods have threatened to undo our organization, and we can't have that. We will have to ramp up our efforts to undermine this franchise; or maybe we will turn around and support it just to undermine your claims. Who can say?

And before you jump to conclusions, we weren't responsible by The Goliath Chronicles. We were merely inspired by them.
Anonymous
Novus Ordo Seclorum
posted @ Fri, Mar 23, 2007 3:21:14 pm EDT from 128.241.111.24

"Vows"> I think part of the problem is that, for the pre-"Awakening" "angel" Demona, the coming massacre her older self revealed to herwas just too big to ignore. It's one thing to be told you should just attend to your day to day (night to night?) living and not constantly worry about preventing the potential horrors of the future, or even to try to follow through on it. It's quite another to actually put something so horrific out of you mind. And with her limited knowledge, based largely on her older self's skewed view of the world and Goliath's less than totally helpful advice, young Demona probably can't help but try to keep the Wyvern Massacre from happening. Unfortunately for her clan, she ends up assuming that what she's seen will be caused by the inhabitants of Castle Wyvern and their growing animosity towards the gargoyles, and inadvertantly brings about the very event she wants to stop.

So why didn't Goliath tell his young angel something more like "Don't go making any secret deals with the captain of the guard"? Well, based on the way he behaves in "Vows", I'm guessing he's a bit concerned about the effects of traveling in time. He hasn't yet realized that the past is immutable, so he's trying to be careful not to change anything for the worse. After all, he doesn't outright tell "mentor" Hudson that he's from a thousand years in the future or any other information beyond what he absolutely needs to. His advice to Demona may be a bit unspecific, but from his point a of view, it's the best he can do wihout saying too much.

Of course, the main reason that Goliath doesn't say something more direct to young Demona is because he didn't. He says what Demona remembers hiim telling her because the past is fixed and there has never been a version of history where Goliath didn't say what he did. And that's why time travel makes my head hurt.

KingCobra> My belated condolences. It sounds like you're handling this pretty well, but I still wish you the best as you continue to deal with it.
Demonskrye
posted @ Fri, Mar 23, 2007 2:47:34 pm EDT from 146.115.115.164

The comic wasn't put on hold. It will be in stores on the 28th.

See: http://www.slavelabor.com/info-exec/display/shipping
See: http://slg-news.livejournal.com/175219.html

As for "reporting" Arlo, it's not worth your time or effort. First, it's just a blatant troll post designed to make you respond because he gets off on your reactions. Furthermore, he really hasn't done anything that his ISP would care about. He's trolling a message board. I bet NYU has a few thousand others who do the same (and in much better form) on their network.
Gorebash
posted @ Fri, Mar 23, 2007 2:32:41 pm EDT from 207.206.247.207

That's a permanent IP? Is NYU the IP provider?
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Fri, Mar 23, 2007 1:39:09 pm EDT from 209.162.56.94

Alright, if anyone out there is getting tired of Arlo's antics, report him to his IP provider and to NYU security. I did.

Here is his IP: 216.165.96.17

Here is the phone number for his provider: 212-998-3333

And send a little e-mail with as much info as you can to:

security@nyu.edu

I did, I hope you do to.

Oh, and include the URL to the website he keeps linking to. Will make it easier for them to ID him.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"I'll tell you one thing, if the primates that we came from had known that someday politicians would come out of the gene pool, they'd've stayed up in the trees and written evolution off as a bad idea ... I always thought the opposable thumb was overrated." - Captain John Sheridan
posted @ Fri, Mar 23, 2007 1:32:35 pm EDT from 67.87.175.245

You all got the Gargoyles comic put on hold again.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

BY THE WAY IT'S NICE HOW YOU ALL KEEP GARGOYLES FROM BECOMING POPULAR AND THEN BITCH WHEN SOMEONE WANTS TO DOWNLOAD THE EPS ILLEGALLY. GET OVER IT.

Vaevictis: Love the new look. No longer that innocent, demure Angela you were before. Now you're a bitch to be reckoned with.

ARLO FOREVER
Arlo
Gargoyles need not apply.
posted @ Fri, Mar 23, 2007 1:03:20 pm EDT from 216.165.96.17

Chris -- We don't encourage people to watch illegal downloads online. Please buy the DVDs on Amazon and watch them legally like the rest of us did. Those episodes cost money to make, so why should you watch them for free? It costs money to continue making the comics, and we want people to support Gargoyles so the comic isn't cancelled. It is, in fact, pretty disrespectful to Greg Weisman, Michael Reeves, the animation artists, the voice actors, and everyone else who worked hard to create those episodes, to tell them that you don't respect them or their work enough to pay some money for it.
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Fri, Mar 23, 2007 10:44:13 am EDT from 209.162.56.94

chris: Most of us don't endorse people watching the episodes for free online. Sales are needed to keep the property alive, and people watching for free doesn't help. You can buy them on amazon.com.

About Demona's time travel: I actually like the idea that Demona tried to sabotage the alliance between Hudson and Malcolm. Not future Demona traveling back in time, but past/original Demona, knowing that the "humans" would eventually slaughter her clan. That sounds like a plot for Dark Ages- Demona allies with various villains of that series in hopes of wrecking the alliance and turning the gargoyles against the humans.
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Fri, Mar 23, 2007 9:24:02 am EDT from 153.9.83.136

Hakon and his men seemed to be doing alright until the sun went down and the Clan woke up. I wonder why with or without help from within they didn't just attack full force at dawn.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both human... and gargoyle!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Fri, Mar 23, 2007 9:16:24 am EDT from 24.207.163.239

thanks for reply mate, do u know any websites though with the episode on them, unfortunatley my local video store doesnt have any of them, its just to keep my wee bro interest goin in it, i had to dig out my old gargoyle action figures for hoim as well to play with! lol, thanks mate!
chris - [cscullion1988 at hotmail dot com]
chris
posted @ Fri, Mar 23, 2007 9:09:19 am EDT from 86.138.82.30

chris> You can probably find the episodes for view online through the normal search channels. But why not rent the DVDs instead?
Demonskrye
posted @ Fri, Mar 23, 2007 9:03:58 am EDT from 146.115.115.164

hey guys was wondering if any of you could help me, my little brother just saw the gargoyle movie you know the prelude to the cartoon series, the awakening and i was just wondering if anybody knew a website where my young brother could watch any of the episodes on the internet, until i but him the box set some day, would appreciate the help guys! thanks alot , gargoyles rules!
chris - [cscullion1988 at hotmail dot com]
chris
posted @ Fri, Mar 23, 2007 8:56:24 am EDT from 86.138.82.30

Historically, Viking raiders were having their way with Britain on a regular basis during the time the "Gargoyles" story begins. Not even the inland towns weren't safe. If Hakon had failed at Wyvern and gone home, some other Norseman would have been along soon enough to claim the prize.

91 days left until The Gathering 2007 in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2007]
posted @ Fri, Mar 23, 2007 7:05:20 am EDT from 65.43.179.142

I had a little creativity demon once that Demona might have tried using the Phoenix Gate to wipe out the first humans, long even before the time of Prince Malcolm - she failed, of course, but in the process of so doing, "programmed" humans to look upon gargoyles with fear and hostility. But that's probably too far-fetched.

I think that the Wyvern Massacre would have happened in some form even without Demona, since there were two traitors, remember. The Captain of the Guard was the other one, and he had his own strong motives: he was angry over the way that the gargoyles were being mistreated them, preferred them to the humans in the castle, and had even been demoted by Princess Katharine for bringing Goliath and Demona into the great hall (meaning that he now had a personal injury to avenge as well). And he was the one who did all the actual work (meeting with Hakon, cutting the bowstrings, opening the gates).

For that matter, it's been suggested that the Vikings might have returned to sack the castle anyway, though I'm not certain whether they'd have dared do so without the betrayal from within. When the Captain comes to Hakon's camp in disguise, the Vikings are looking very dispirited by their recent defeat. I suspect that, if there hadn't been the promise of a way for them to score an easy entrance into the castle without having to face the gargoyles again, they'd have decided to forget about Wyvern and find some other place to plunder that didn't have gargoyles guarding it - and if Hakon had insisted upon a return, would have quickly gotten rid of him and replaced him with a leader who wouldn't be regarding Castle Wyvern with a "Captain Ahab-towards-Moby-Dick"-level obsession.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Fri, Mar 23, 2007 6:56:39 am EDT from 4.244.211.39

Greg B: That a new one? I liked it, but the PIT entry is still my favorite.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Tired of bad first dates? Try beastiality.com!" -"Doctor" Neil Clark Warren, world-famous sheep fetishist.
posted @ Fri, Mar 23, 2007 6:39:12 am EDT from 71.62.204.109

{{Vid the Kid posting; I just look like KingCobra because he has all his info set up on this computer/profile and I'd rather not change it}}

As an interesting non-sequiter, we just got home from hanging out with friends and I caught the tail end of "Outfoxed" on Toon Disney. When that ended, I was craving something educational, so I turned on "Race for the Poles" on the Discovery Times channel. Wouldn't you know it, Keith David is narrating it! I called Ed downstairs and he got a small laugh about it. Unfortunately, the storms here are making the satellite signal intermittent. I hope it doesn't interfere too much with recording of the 4:30 show... we need footage...
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
'Ignore Me!' - Venture Bros.
posted @ Fri, Mar 23, 2007 4:17:48 am EDT from 69.95.196.156

DPH - By preventing the alliance, do you mean when Malcom and Hudson first met, the supposed beginning of "Dark Ages?"

If so, interesting. I always beleived Demona just went to find her younger self after dropping Xanatos and Co off -- but there is a possibility she traveled back even further, I guess.
Phoenician - [theoneandonlyphoenician at yahoo dot com]
The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Fri, Mar 23, 2007 2:49:13 am EDT from 157.242.213.14

Phoenician - I like to look at the massacre from a different pov. During season 1, We (and Greg Weisman) knew the massacre had occurred, but had no idea that anybody had a warning. From that very limited point-of-view, one could conclude that the massacre would have occurred *without* intervention from any time-travelers. Future Demona warning her past self didn't cause the massacre, but I would argue that was the 1st step among many that caused the massacre to occur. Princess Katherine's ill treatment of the gargoyles the night before the massacre was the final straw that broke the camel's back. My question was when was the 'point of no return' - the last chance for the massacre not to have occurred. I would think that Prince Malcom's death was the point of no return.

**Theory**
I wonder if Demona didn't try to prevent the alliance between Prince Malcom and her gargoyle clan when she had the phoenix gate during Vows.
**End Theory**
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Fri, Mar 23, 2007 1:23:46 am EDT from 216.96.19.114

And geeze I can't spell my own handle! 0_o
Purplegoldfish
posted @ Fri, Mar 23, 2007 1:16:14 am EDT from 64.12.117.12

GregB: hehe, I love the Elisa one as well http://www.wikiality.com/Elisa_Maza
Purpelgoldfish
posted @ Fri, Mar 23, 2007 1:14:41 am EDT from 64.12.117.12

I never thought I would see the day that Goliath would be considered a terrorist, liberal, and bear-lover all in one. GregX, you have a dark gift. :P

On what Goliath thought in Vows: I agree, VA, that Goliath's speech sounded alot like "Don't worry about the inevitable." But then again, IF Demona truly listened (and if time was mutable), she could have considered the entire ordeal a bad dream and just enjoy being a gargoyle in love with Goliath. At least that's a possibility -- and a really dull one at that.

In figurative language, the Wyvern Massacre to be a classic examle of "Over Determinism" -- there are just so many factors at play: the prejudice against the Wyvern Clan, Demona's hatred towards humanity, Demona's urge to act before the humans do, the Vikings Seige, the Captain's distaste for the treatment of the Wyvern Clan, and countless others make this very moment impossible to decipher which domino triggered the rest to fall -- but they fall nonetheless, with each of these factors (at least) partially responsible.

And I think I may stick with the Renard avy . . . hopefully no one's currently using him.
Phoenician - [theoneandonlyphoenician at yahoo dot com]
The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Fri, Mar 23, 2007 12:31:55 am EDT from 157.242.219.243

Here's a fun link for you all.

http://www.wikiality.com/Goliath_(Gargoyle)
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"I'll tell you one thing, if the primates that we came from had known that someday politicians would come out of the gene pool, they'd've stayed up in the trees and written evolution off as a bad idea ... I always thought the opposable thumb was overrated." - Captain John Sheridan
posted @ Thu, Mar 22, 2007 11:40:20 pm EDT from 67.87.175.245

I think Goliath didn't want to antagonize her or break her heart, or say something that would lead her to distrust him, and possibly sour the last years of hers and Goliath's relationship. I mean, telling somebody "You will responsible for the massacre of your entire people." is really harsh. Even saying, "That woman who was you but who wants to destroy all humans did it, but you can choose not to." would still be a horrible thing for her to hear.

But his speech to her, while beautiful, did not really provide any useful advice. Not knowing that she would be responsible, how would she believe that holding onto her own heart and love would prevent the massacre? From her point of view, I think it sounds more like a speech about not worrying about something that can't be prevented.

I don't want to ascribe Demona's actions entirely to what her future self and future-Goliath said, though. I think what she experienced horrified her and was part of the paranoia and fear that festered inside of her, but it worked alongside her desire for power, and her bitterness and resentment toward humans.

What Goliath was thinking would happen... I don't know. I doubt that he sat down first and went through a deep philosophical thought leading to something like "I will remember the events but when I return to the present they will not have happened." If it had worked, and the rest of the clan no longer existed as such, he would be like a piece of weirdness from a hole in reality, or something. He would be the same as a gargoyle who probably died long ago in Wyvern. So he could go back to Scotland and try to live with the descendants, but it would be weird for him and them. And everyone he knew would be dead, even the Trio and Hudson and Bronx.

Or maybe, the clan wouldn't have survived anyway. Most other clans died, and the few that survived were mostly those that hid from humans instead of living among them. If the massacre had not happened as it did, probably a different massacre would have happened at a different time. But maybe without any survivors, let alone a stone sleep spell.

I think though that wondering what would have happened is not as interesting as looking at what did happen, and thinking about the characters and how events lead to other events.
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Thu, Mar 22, 2007 10:18:03 pm EDT from 209.162.56.94

VA> "So, not to trivialize KingCobra's unpleasant experience, but I thought to talk about something a bit more cheerful..."

I agree. I appreciate everyone's sympathy, but I agree with that. I'm perfectly fine.

Greg B> Thanks for re-posting the cover image.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
"Ignore me!" - Venture Bros.
posted @ Thu, Mar 22, 2007 8:38:24 pm EDT from 69.95.28.165

Todd: <The Demona of 975 could have easily come to the wrong conclusion and believed that the humans responsible for the massacre deliberately cursed him as part of their treachery.>

I wonder if Demona still believes that. I'm pretty sure it was somewhere in her tirade when she and Angela had their first real conversation.

Vaevictus: Yeah, that really adds a great dimension to the character. It also gives us a nice look at Demona's internal workings. If she HAD done nothing, the massacre wouldn't have happened.

But something else I've wondered of late about that scene: at the time, I don't think Goliath knew that history can't be changed. He had to return to 1995 to learn that. So I wonder what was going through his mind when he gave his little speech to the Demona of 975. Did he really think it would have an impact, and if so, did the thought enter his mind that it might have some bad consequences, such as him returning to 1995 and finding his clan no longer there?

But still, great speech. Wonderful life's lesson in it. Everyone's going to have fears and hates. There's nothing wrong with that. The trick is to have them, and not the other way around.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Tired of bad first dates? Try beastiality.com!" -"Doctor" Neil Clark Warren, world-famous sheep fetishist.
posted @ Thu, Mar 22, 2007 8:27:46 pm EDT from 71.62.204.109

Yes, I suppose that "beg" was an exaggeration.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Thu, Mar 22, 2007 7:29:26 pm EDT from 4.244.208.124

Did Goliath BEg the Magus to turn him to stone, or did Goliath ASK the Magus? I think there is a distinction.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both human... and gargoyle!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Thu, Mar 22, 2007 7:05:36 pm EDT from 24.207.163.239

VAEVICTIS - Yes, I'd noticed that as well. Demona just says vaguely that "the humans" were responsible for the Wyvern Massacre, never specifying that it was the Vikings who did it. The Demona of 975 could easily have assumed that it was the humans who lived in the castle that slaughtered almost all of the gargoyles, rather than a group of outside marauders. (And she must have been all the more convinced of that as human-gargoyle relations deteriorated during the period between 975 and 994.)

Note also that the Demona from 1995 says only that Goliath has wound up trapped in stone in the aftermath of the massacre, but does not say how it happened; she certainly does not say that the real reason for it was that Goliath was so devastated over the massacre that he begged the Magus to place that spell upon him. The Demona of 975 could have easily come to the wrong conclusion and believed that the humans responsible for the massacre deliberately cursed him as part of their treachery.

(It makes me wonder how Demona responded when she found out how Goliath's "trapped in stone sleep" really took place. Knowing her, she probably viewed it in disgust as an act of cowardice - while conveniently ignoring the fact that she'd behaved in an even more cowardly fashion that night.)
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Thu, Mar 22, 2007 6:23:44 pm EDT from 4.244.208.124

With Greg Weisman's permission, the cover for issue 4 is back up.

http://gargoyles.dracandros.com/Clan_Building_Chapter_Four:_Masque
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"I'll tell you one thing, if the primates that we came from had known that someday politicians would come out of the gene pool, they'd've stayed up in the trees and written evolution off as a bad idea ... I always thought the opposable thumb was overrated." - Captain John Sheridan
posted @ Thu, Mar 22, 2007 6:07:24 pm EDT from 67.87.175.245

Demona is the Shakespearean tragedy, the Goliath/Elisa relationship the comedy. Xanatos is Oberon, Oberon is Lord Capulet, and only Puck can be Puck, unless it's Brent Spiner singing about "precious little life forms". I mean, wtf?! He's pressing several buttons on a very tiny console and you're gonna tell me that the "oh shi-" is a reaction to the moment and not the realization he effed it all up by pressing those buttons earlier in the show?

These are the thoughts that run through my mind at 3:46 in the PM while I'm at work and trying very hard to ignore the very important job I have to get done this week.
Gorebash
posted @ Thu, Mar 22, 2007 3:46:40 pm EDT from 207.206.247.251

So, not to trivialize KingCobra's unpleasant experience, but I thought to talk about something a bit more cheerful...

I watched Vows yesterday and I noticed something. When Demona shows her younger self the aftermath of the massacre, she says "The humans did this! They betrayed us!" So later on, when young Demona wants to prevent the *humans* from betraying the clan, she decides to betray them first... So Demona kind of set herself up for tragedy, by refusing to admit her own responsibility and instead blaming it all on the humans.
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Thu, Mar 22, 2007 3:26:34 pm EDT from 209.162.56.94

Okay, in that case, Bad Guys #1.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Look, that beam came from space. You don't own space, so stop acting like you do." -Master Shake
posted @ Thu, Mar 22, 2007 6:43:05 am EDT from 71.62.204.109

KingCobra: Wow, that's awful. Sorry to hear that and I hope you feel recovered soon.

Matt/Harvester: Yeah, I hope not to end up having to count up the 'Goliaths' for the tie-break, but otherwise it shouldn't be a problem. Although come to think of it, the results will probably have to wait until the 2007 issues get to me which will probably some time next February.

Harvester, Re: A4. Hmm... Well, pretty much any death that is dramatised, or affects the dramatic momentum of the story in some way. Demona talking about how Leonardo Da Vinci died wouldn't count. A flashback scene where we see Leonardo Da Vinci dying would count. Dracon bragging he killed five people last year wouldn't count. Xanatos announcing that five people were killed by debris from a past battle and now the government wants a Gargoyles Registration Act might count.

It's pretty much pot luck so there's no harm in taking a wild guess.
Ed
posted @ Thu, Mar 22, 2007 4:26:27 am EDT from 213.187.39.245

King cobra ACk!!!! I hope your ok. :( I got robbed once at work thats when I started taking martial arts classes. Its so nerve shocking and fusterating at the same time.

Yes yes do what they said and eat massive amounts of choclate. and do what I do go play some Video games ;-P
Shara
posted @ Thu, Mar 22, 2007 2:38:15 am EDT from 4.246.211.23

Kris: I probably will go with Instruments of Destruction because listening to them both again, it just seemed alot more suitable. The only other song I had in mind that I forgot about is "When Demons Awake" by Rhapsody.
Ozzie Arcane - [ozziearcane at wowway dot com]
"Hello Booby, this is a trap!" - Eggplant Wizard from Captain N
posted @ Thu, Mar 22, 2007 2:02:41 am EDT from 69.14.122.91

Ozzie: Go with "Instruments of Destruction" from the Transformers soundtrack if you can find some really great shots of the various villains looking or doing something extremely evil (for a kid's cartoon). That song was so perfect for when it was played in the film (most of the songs were. One of my favorite non-score soundtracks). They just blew away a ton of important and/or better characters from the first two seasons of the show and they were mowed down without the movie really acknowledging the weight of it all...which really wasn't AS big a deal considering Unicron had just eaten a planet full of cybernetic aliens (not Transformers), but we didn't know those characters. Anyway, that song really made you feel the hopelessness of that Decepticon attack and the utter waste of life.

King Cobra: Sorry to hear about that. Man that's awful. I've often worried about the same thing happening to me. I work in a bar.
Kris - [plekopleko at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Thu, Mar 22, 2007 1:28:06 am EDT from 24.137.192.172

Nice video Greg B. Although the song actually started to annoy me abit near the end.
Ozzie Arcane - [ozziearcane at wowway dot com]
"Hello Booby, this is a trap!" - Eggplant Wizard from Captain N
posted @ Wed, Mar 21, 2007 10:21:08 pm EDT from 69.14.122.91

Okay, Ed. Got my answers together. I wonder, are you keeping track of these and will you be announcing winners, etc?

Anyway:

A1: Gargoyles #4
A2: None
A3: Gargoyles #7
A4: Bad Guys #1
A5: None
A6: Gargoyles #3
A7: Gargoyles #7
A8: None
A9: Gargoyles #6
A10: Bad Guys #1

B1: Yes
B2: Yes
B3: Broadway/Angela
B4: Europe
B5: No
B6: Yes
B7: None
B8: No
B9: No
B10: Matrix

C1: Broadway/Goliath
C2: Elisa/Thailog
C3: Thailog/Goliath
C4: Xanatos/Goliath
C5: New Character/Robyn Canmore
C6: Goliath/Lexington
C7: Robyn Canmore/New Character

D1: Hunter
D2: Lexington, Alex, Puck

Tie-Breaker: 11
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both human... and gargoyle!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Wed, Mar 21, 2007 10:20:24 pm EDT from 24.207.163.239

Ozzie> I made a music video like that:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_v_KYqd0b0
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"I'll tell you one thing, if the primates that we came from had known that someday politicians would come out of the gene pool, they'd've stayed up in the trees and written evolution off as a bad idea ... I always thought the opposable thumb was overrated." - Captain John Sheridan
posted @ Wed, Mar 21, 2007 9:40:36 pm EDT from 67.87.175.245

I'm still rolling around ideas. But unless I think of something else probably "Scum of the Earth" by Rob Zombie or "Instruments of Destruction" from the Transformers movie soundtrack.
Ozzie Arcane - [ozziearcane at wowway dot com]
"Hello Booby, this is a trap!" - Eggplant Wizard from Captain N
posted @ Wed, Mar 21, 2007 9:35:55 pm EDT from 69.14.122.91

Ozzie: What song you planning to use?
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Explain to me again how we were going to conquer the Earth with a white Michael Jackson?"
posted @ Wed, Mar 21, 2007 9:30:53 pm EDT from 71.62.204.109

I'm gonna ask you guys for some suggestions now. Since you guys are Gargoyles fans and all. I've made alot of anime music videos in the past. I plan on making a music video dedicated to villains but I'm going to include anime, american cartoons, and even live action movies into it. But what villain tribute would be complete without Xanatos, Demona, and the Arch Mage? So I'm asking you guys for possible scene suggestions from the current DVDs.

I'm asking for suggestions because it's been awhile since I watched my DVDs and I have alot of other material to go through as well.
Ozzie Arcane - [ozziearcane at wowway dot com]
"Hello Booby, this is a trap!" - Eggplant Wizard from Captain N
posted @ Wed, Mar 21, 2007 8:57:07 pm EDT from 69.14.122.91

KingCobra: Sorry to hear of your ordeal.

Greg B: I might have to avoid coming in here for a while after March 28th, at least until I can get my hands on it.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Explain to me again how we were going to conquer the Earth with a white Michael Jackson?"
posted @ Wed, Mar 21, 2007 8:35:28 pm EDT from 71.62.204.109

Todd Jensen> Well, it's made me decide to enjoy life even more since we, after all, are mortal and only live once.

Not saying that I would go jumping out of planes or anything like that, though.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
"Ignore me!" - Venture Bros.
posted @ Wed, Mar 21, 2007 8:23:22 pm EDT from 69.95.91.231

For me, it's eight days. I'm pretty much booked through Wednesday, and can't get over until Thursday. But one day is no big deal after everything else.
Asatira
posted @ Wed, Mar 21, 2007 7:53:11 pm EDT from 131.204.97.56

To King Cobra:

I'm sorry to hear about your robbery. I hope that you will find healing from the aftereffects of your experience.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Wed, Mar 21, 2007 7:24:30 pm EDT from 4.244.210.93

Robbery> Once again, thank you, everyone.

Greg B.> I can't wait.

7 more days. :D

Luckily, I have a local 'subscription' (and by that I mean absolute notification upon release) at a local comic shop.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
"Ignore me!" - Venture Bros.
posted @ Wed, Mar 21, 2007 7:18:21 pm EDT from 69.95.91.231

KC> My condolences

Ahem, one week till New Canon Stories!
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"I'll tell you one thing, if the primates that we came from had known that someday politicians would come out of the gene pool, they'd've stayed up in the trees and written evolution off as a bad idea ... I always thought the opposable thumb was overrated." - Captain John Sheridan
posted @ Wed, Mar 21, 2007 7:01:59 pm EDT from 67.87.175.245

Kingcobra: Oh man, that's really awful. I guess it could have been worse though-I have an uncle who used to work at a gas station and he was robbed and actually shot. It's such a shame there are so many @ssholes in this world ruining it for us hard working citizens.
I hope everything turns out okay.
Purpelgoldfish
posted @ Wed, Mar 21, 2007 6:23:44 pm EDT from 205.188.116.206

Cobra: I'm really glad you're feeling better. I work at a little shop called Caldron Crafts, where we sell geology-related items, and jewelry crafts. It's not really high-risk, but we occasionally get people on drugs come in to look at all the shiny stuff. That makes me nervous.
Samuel - [AnglOfHellO at AOL dot com]
Noodles, anyone?
posted @ Wed, Mar 21, 2007 6:00:02 pm EDT from 24.126.61.128

I'm actually feeling better now. I've slept some since then and am more relaxed about it now. Boyfriend's been a big help too.

Samuel> I'm curious. What kind of shop do you work at?
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
'Ignore Me!' - Venture Bros.
posted @ Wed, Mar 21, 2007 4:27:12 pm EDT from 69.95.91.85

Cobra: I'm so sorry to hear about that. I work at a little shop, and every now and again I get afraid that someone's gonna pull out a gun and rob us, but it hasn't happened. How truly awful it must have been to have experienced that. :\
Samuel - [AnglOfHellO at AOL dot com]
Noodles, anyone?
posted @ Wed, Mar 21, 2007 4:07:52 pm EDT from 24.126.61.128

Matt> I work at a gas station, actually. There's more details about it in my LJ.

Thanks for the support, everyone. It certainly helps.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
'Ignore Me!' - Venture Bros.
posted @ Wed, Mar 21, 2007 4:03:42 pm EDT from 69.95.91.85

Cobra: Sorry to hear what happened to you . . . I can only imagine (though I don't want to) what that must feel like.
Phoenician - [theoneandonlyphoenician at yahoo dot com]
The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Wed, Mar 21, 2007 3:39:48 pm EDT from 157.242.212.62

Sorry to hear about your misfortune KingCobra. I've never been robbed, but I have fallen victim to a quick change artist once. Working in retail stinks...
Ozzie Arcane - [ozziearcane at wowway dot com]
"Hello Booby, this is a trap!" - Eggplant Wizard from Captain N
posted @ Wed, Mar 21, 2007 2:21:52 pm EDT from 69.14.122.91

Oh no! King Cobra I hop you have a really good day tomorrow to make up for it. Go eat some chocolate or something.
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Wed, Mar 21, 2007 12:21:50 pm EDT from 209.162.56.94

KingCobra> Sorry to hear about your frightening ordeal! Don't let wasters like that get the better of you. Hope you have a speedy recovery x
Nikki
From Britain, with love
posted @ Wed, Mar 21, 2007 10:48:17 am EDT from 81.102.23.33

King Cobra> Yeee! That's terrible. Not a good thing at all.
Asatira
posted @ Wed, Mar 21, 2007 10:21:50 am EDT from 131.204.97.9

I'm guessing you work at a convienence store and you were not carrying all that on your person...?
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both human... and gargoyle!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Wed, Mar 21, 2007 10:10:27 am EDT from 24.207.163.239

Jurgan> Aside from a hell of a lot of cash, lotto tickets, cigarette cartons, the charge drop machines, and even my last $3, not to mention my calm mentality and my seemingly-unshakable desire to do my job, not really.

Ugh.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
"Ignore me!" - Venture Bros.
posted @ Wed, Mar 21, 2007 9:44:35 am EDT from 69.95.28.200

Yikes! Sorry to hear about your misfortune, Cobra. Did you lose anything valuable or irreplaceable?
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Wed, Mar 21, 2007 9:19:03 am EDT from 153.9.83.136

*comes in with frayed nerves*

Any of you guys who have never been robbed by guys with guns before, You. Are. Lucky.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
"Ignore me!" - Venture Bros.
posted @ Wed, Mar 21, 2007 8:38:32 am EDT from 69.95.28.200

Oops. Misread the question. Yeah, there were four episodes in between "The Gathering" and "Hunter's Moon":

"Vendettas"
"Turf"
"The Reckoning" (one of my favorites)
"Possession"
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Take off your band-aid, 'cause I don't believe in touchdowns." -Wilco ("I Am Trying to Break Your Heart")
posted @ Wed, Mar 21, 2007 6:30:09 am EDT from 71.62.204.109

Kris: "Pendragon" took place largely in Manhattan. We also saw a few glimpses in "The Green."
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Take off your band-aid, 'cause I don't believe in touchdowns." -Wilco ("I Am Trying to Break Your Heart")
posted @ Wed, Mar 21, 2007 6:28:25 am EDT from 71.62.204.109

I'm one of those folks who hadn't seen the bulk of the series in years prior to the DVD sets being released. I was hoping to get Season 2 Part 2 this past December, watch it and have the rest of the series more complete in my head, then be able to read the first two issues and progress with the series (I pre-ordered and bought 'em through my comic shop, just haven't opened 'em up yet).

I guess I remember enough of the rest of the Avalon World Tour, The Gathering, and whichever remaining episodes took place in New York to simply go ahead and read the comic already. I've got this place as reference anyway if I'm confused about anything (don't wanna watch Part 2 of Season 2 on YouTube or on my computer at all. Still holding out hope that I'll be able to sit in comfort on my couch and take it all in again on a TV set properly, with official DVDs. Eventually)

Was it just the Hunter's Moon 3-parter, or WERE there other new New York eps in between the end of the tour and The Gathering, as well as after that and before Hunter's Moon ? Can't remember.
Kris - [plekopleko at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Wed, Mar 21, 2007 4:44:13 am EDT from 24.137.192.172

Wow, I suddenly have an urge to make a T-Shirt with the caption DON'T CIRCULATE THE COVERS. Mind you, I'll never explain what it means. I'll let people speculate over it.

I also would have to give DK2 props for apologizing. Admitting fault is one of those things that becomes more endangered on this all-too-weary planet every day. Now who wants ice cream?

KingCobra: Yes.

Ed: Are you really gonna keep track of all these, or do we have to do it ourselves? Let me think:


A1. Issue #5.

A2. Bad Guys #1.

A3. Is Owen going somewhere? But seriously, #6.

A4. Define "death." I have a guess, but I need some clarification first.

A5. Issue #6.

A6. Issue #3.

A7. Nothing in 2007.

A8. Bad Guys #1.

A9. Issue #5.

A10. Issue #5.

B1. Yes.

B2. Yes.

B3. Goliath and Elisa.

B4. Newfreeland.

B5. Yes.

B6. No.

B7. None.

B8. No.

B9. No.

B10. Sevarius

C1. Xanatos, Thailog

C2 - C4. Don't have the first goddamn clue. Not even a raging clue. I sure wish I had one, though.

C5. The Director, Robyn Canmore.

C6, C7. See answers to C2 - 4.

D1. All of them.

D2. Goliath, Brooklyn, Broadway, Lexington, Angela, Hudson, Bronx, New Character.

TIE BREAKER ANSWER: Forty-two.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Take off your band-aid, 'cause I don't believe in touchdowns." -Wilco ("I Am Trying to Break Your Heart")
posted @ Tue, Mar 20, 2007 8:39:39 pm EDT from 71.62.204.109

As long as Proteus doesn't come back and reveal that he is the mastermind who manipulated Goliath into the fight. Then I'm positively sure that I'll enjoy the story.
Vinnie - [tpeano29 at hotmail dot com]
Remember the old Gargoyles comics!
posted @ Tue, Mar 20, 2007 7:37:55 pm EDT from 69.54.209.38

Yeah, Samuel is right. DK2 didn't see Greg's post, so be nice. It's hard to stand it when everyone is talking about something exciting and you can't see it.
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Tue, Mar 20, 2007 12:03:23 pm EDT from 209.162.56.94

I'll think about the contest and post some guesses later.

Meanwhile, while I should perhaps not even bring up the new covers anymore, a thought did occur to me. Perhaps it wasn't Goliath's blood at all. We never saw a wound, just lots of blood. I still tend to think Goliath is the injured one, but it is possible he was only holding someone who was injured or something.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both human... and gargoyle!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Tue, Mar 20, 2007 8:51:05 am EDT from 24.207.163.239

Harvester Of Eyes> You saw my final entry from last week, right? It was in regards to the Coldstone thang.

I didn't see any further responses on it and just wanted to make sure you knew that that was me.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
'Ignore Me!' - Venture Bros.
posted @ Tue, Mar 20, 2007 8:16:10 am EDT from 69.95.28.131

DK2: Everyone makes mistakes. :) It's easy to skip an entry, particularly when there's no avatar beside it.

Other than that, I don't have much to say. Still impatient for the next issue. :)
Samuel - [AnglOfHellO at AOL dot com]
"What sorcery is this?"
posted @ Tue, Mar 20, 2007 2:58:21 am EDT from 24.126.61.128

oh come on, give the guy a break! He apologized.

DK2-It's probably best that you didn't see it anyway. It will be hard to wait for #5 with that image stuck in my head. But I don't blame you-If I didn't get to see what everyone is raving about I'de be pretty miffed too.
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn at aol dot com]
posted @ Tue, Mar 20, 2007 12:48:17 am EDT from 152.163.100.5

DK2: Greg Weisman already said that he's not happy about what happened with the covers. I think it would be disrespectful to go against his wishes. I also think your request took a lot of nerve, especially since you posted it mere hours after Greg told us how angry he was about what happened.

I hope that those who saved the covers don't show them to anyone else. I believe we should respect Greg's wishes and wait until he decides to unveil the covers. We've waited a long time for new canon material and I'd hate for this to ruin our big moment. So be patient; you'll see the covers eventually.
D. Taina
posted @ Tue, Mar 20, 2007 12:17:36 am EDT from 172.166.150.231

Greg B, sorry didn't mean no disrespect to Greg W. Didn't realize he posted here earlier. From what I read, it was in reference. Just thought I'd ask (#5's brief cover details made me go what is on that cover?). Guess I can wait. No big deal. Thanks for the response.
DK2
posted @ Tue, Mar 20, 2007 12:09:03 am EDT from 24.70.95.205

DK2> I'm sorry, you're just going to have to wait. Greg asked for those covers to be taken down, and doesn't want them being passed around. I would hope no one reading your post who may have saved them passes them around.

By the way, considering only a few hours ago, Greg Weisman posted in this very comment room that he wasn't pleased those covers were accidently shown, I think you have a lot of nerve to post a request here for them.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"I'll tell you one thing, if the primates that we came from had known that someday politicians would come out of the gene pool, they'd've stayed up in the trees and written evolution off as a bad idea ... I always thought the opposable thumb was overrated." - Captain John Sheridan
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 11:54:20 pm EDT from 67.87.175.245

Did anyone perhaps keep the comic covers of #4 & #5? I'd like to see them. I come on these boards and everyones yapping about it, but they're already gone. Although I do know what #4's looks like from Previews. I assumed it wasn't its final colors though. Please anyone? From what I can tell Greg W. wasn't happy about this, that I can understand, this is the internet. These things happen.
DK2 - [wab at shaw dot ca]
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 11:48:38 pm EDT from 24.70.95.205

A. WHICH ISSUE IN 2007? (10 points)
1. Issue #3
2. Issue #7
3. Issue #6
4. Issue #7
5. Issue #6
6. Issue #3
7. NONE
8. Bad Guys #1
9. Issue #4
10. Issue #6

B. GENERAL QUESTIONS (10 points)
1. YES
2. BAD GUYS #1 and/or #2
3. Angela & Broadway
4. Asia
5. NO
6. YES
7. One
8. NO
9. YES
10. Jeffrey Robbins

C. FIRST LINES, LAST LINES (14 points)
1. GARGOYLES #3: Elisa/Goliath
2. GARGOYLES #4: Goliath/Demona
3. GARGOYLES #5: Thailog/Xanatos
4. GARGOYLES #6: New Character/New Character (Not necesarily the same)
5. BAD GUYS #1: Director/Fang
6. GARGOYLES #7: New Character/Goliath
7. BAD GUYS #2: Robyn/New Character

D. TRIPLE-POINTERS (6 points)
1. Hunter, Dingo, Yama, Matrix and Fang
2. Goliath, NEW CHARACTER

TIE-BREAKER:
How many times will the word "Goliath" be used this year in the stories (i.e. excluding the editorials section)?
42 (yeah, that's just a random number)

(and I'm trying out new avatars . . . hopefully I can find one that fits just right! :P)
Phoenician - [theoneandonlyphoenician at yahoo dot com]
The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 11:13:46 pm EDT from 157.242.209.86

They don't have #3 in the SLG webstore yet... Maybe when it gets closer to the date? Although it's pretty close now...
Kaylle - [kaylle at ladyavalon dot com]
GargoylesDVD.com
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 11:08:19 pm EDT from 66.31.44.143

Which issue

1. GIssue 5
2. None
3. GIssue 6
4. None
5. GIssue 3
6. GIssue 3
7. None
8. GIssue 5
9. None
10. None

General

1. Yes
2. No
3. Angela and Broadway
4. Asia
5. No
6. Yes
7. 1
8. no
9. no
10. Matt Bluestone

C First/Last

1. Elisa/Demona
2. Goliath/Thailog
3. Thailog/Angela
4. Goliath/Brooklyn
5. New Chacacter Fang
6. Elisa/Goliath
7. Robyn/Dingo

D Triple Pointer

1 Dingo/Matrix/Robyn/Yama/Fang
2 Angela/Broadway

E Tie Brake

35
Vicky82 - [Vickyfanofwwe at aol dot com]
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 10:07:18 pm EDT from 195.93.21.4

Well if #7 is included, now I have to re-think all of my answers from scratch.

A. WHICH ISSUE IN 2007?

Gargoyles #3-7 and Bad Guys #1-2 should be released this year. Specify ONE issue in answer to each of these questions (or answer NONE).

1. G #4
2. G #7
3. G #7
4. BG #1
5. G #6
6. G #4
7. G #7
8. BG #1
9. G #7
10. None

B. GENERAL QUESTIONS (10 points)
1. Yes
2. No
3. Goliath and Elisa
4. Asia
5. No
6. Yes
7. 1
8. Yes
9. Yes (I hope!)
10. Taro

C. FIRST LINES, LAST LINES (14 points)
Man, this is way too hard!

1. Travish Marshall, Xanatos
2. Goliath, Goliath
3. Thailog, New Character
4. Goliath, Elisa
5. New Character, New Character
6. Elisa, Broadway
7. Yama, Director

D. TRIPLE-POINTERS (6 points)
1. Robyn and Fang
2. Goliath, Elisa, New Char, New Char, Brookly, Broadway, Lex, Hudson
"say new person for EACH person"???

TIE-BREAKER: 29
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 9:42:07 pm EDT from 209.162.56.94

I can't wait for the new comics. And Bad Guys.

Sorry. I'm just really excited.
Samuel - [AnglOfHellO at AOL dot com]
Noodles, anyone?
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 9:33:32 pm EDT from 24.126.61.128

Man I can not wait to get these comics!

Kaylle: I suggest using the SLG website to order the comics. I had less trouble with them than I did with Amazon.

Quiz thingy: (I have way too much time on my hands ;))

A.1. G#5
2. none
3. G#7
4. none
5. G#6
6. G#4
7. BG#2
8. BG#1
9. G#6
10. none

B.1. no
2. yes
3. Goliath and Elisa
4. Australia
5. yes
6. yes
7. none
8. yes
9. no
10. Robyn Canmore

C
G#3-Elisa;Thailog
G#4-Goliath;Xanatos
G#5-Angela;Elisa
G#6-Demona;Goliath
BG#1-new character, Dingo
G#7-Goliath;Goliath
BG#2-yama, new character

D
1. All of them
2. Goliath,Elisa,Demona

"Goliath" appears-32 times :)

Here's hoping all of these do come out this year!
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn at aol dot com]
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 9:28:56 pm EDT from 152.163.100.5

Kaylee (sorry if I misspelled your name): Can't you order the issue directly from the SLG site? I don't really know, I don't do a lot of online purchasing.

CONTEST:

A. WHICH ISSUE IN 2007? (10 points)

1. G3

2. G6

3. G6

4. NONE

5. G4

6. G3

7. NONE

8. BG1

9. G4

10. G3


B. GENERAL QUESTIONS (10 points)

1. Yes

2. No. (I hope not, I like Hudson)

3. The dark horse.. horses? Brendon and Margot.

4. Europe

5. Yes.

6. Yes.

7. One.

8. No new GARGOYLE, but new characters, yes.

9. No.

10. Delilah.


c. FIRST LINES, LAST LINES (14 points)

1. Broadway-first Thailog-last

2. Goliath, Delilah

3. Elisa, Morgan

4. Bluestone, STRANGER

5. Hunter, Fang

6. Fox, Xanatos

7. Yama, The Director


D. TRIPLE-POINTERS (6 points)

1. Hunter, Dingo, Yama, Matrix, and Fang.

2. Lexington, Bronx, Hudson.


TIE-BREAKER:

19
Samuel - [AnglOfHellO at AOL dot com]
Noodles, anyone?
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 9:25:53 pm EDT from 24.126.61.128

The one with the blood is awsome. Now it's starting to look more like a comic. Though it is disney and I doubt they will aprove something that violent.
Shara
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 9:10:39 pm EDT from 4.246.108.133

Vaevictis Asmadi: #7 is scheduled to be released in November according to Greg's schedule a while back. Ignore the blurb at the top... I just seem unable to strike the '7' key correctly this evening... Sorry!

A2. I don't think timedancing counts because, to Brooklyn, it's not a flashback, it's time-travel.

B8. Good question. Let's include characters who haven't been given a name or lines before.
Ed
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 7:59:33 pm EDT from 213.187.39.245

I've just realized I'm going to be out of town on spring break when #3 comes out, and thus I won't be able to just go to my local comic shop and pick it up the way I did with 1 and 2. I don't know if there's a convenient comic shop in the city I'm going to be in that will be carrying it... Does anyone know of a reliable place online where I could order it? I feel like we've discussed the topic before but I can't remember what people recommended.
Kaylle - [kaylle at ladyavalon dot com]
GargoylesDVD.com
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 7:52:29 pm EDT from 66.31.44.143

A contest! Yay!
BTW, I think that the title "The Reunion" must refer to Goliath and Elisa getting back together after the double date, and not have anything to do with Timedancing.

A. WHICH ISSUE IN 2007?
1. G #3
2. Does Timedancing count as a flashback? Either way, None.
3. G #6
4. BG #1
5. G #6
6. G #4
7. None.
8. BG #1
9. G #6
10. None of them. It will not occur until Pendragon #1.

B. GENERAL QUESTIONS
1. Yes
2. No
3. Goliath and Elisa
4. Asia
5. No
6. Yes
7. 1
8. Define "new". Someone never seen on screen or someone never given a name or lines?
9. No
10. Taro

C. FIRST LINES, LAST LINES

Hold on, hold on, first you said "Gargoyles #3-6 and Bad Guys #1-2 should be released this year."
Then you listed the issues in this order:
1. GARGOYLES #3
2. GARGOYLES #4
3. GARGOYLES #5
4. GARGOYLES #6
5. BAD GUYS #1
6. GARGOYLES #7
7. BAD GUYS #2

This makes no sense. Is #7 scheduled for this year or not? Is it supposed to be in the contest or is this a typo?
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 7:49:05 pm EDT from 209.162.56.94

D'oh. A9 I meant to type #7. Embarassed myself already and the quiz is only minutes old!
Ed
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 7:06:50 pm EDT from 213.187.39.245

My guesses:


A. WHICH ISSUE IN 2007? (10 points)

1. GARGOYLES #4

2. NONE

3. GARGOYLES: BAD GUYS #2

4. GARGOYLES #7

5. NONE

6. GARGOYLES #6

7. GARGOYLES #7

8. GARGOYLES: BAD GUYS #1

9. GARGOYLES #8

10. GARGOYLES: BAD GUYS #1


B. GENERAL QUESTIONS (10 points)

1. YES

2. NO

3. Broadway/Angela

4. Asia

5. YES

6. NO

7. 1

8. NO

9. YES

10. Wolf


C. FIRST LINES, LAST LINES (14 points)

1. Goliath, Demona

2. Xanatos, Thailog

3. Hudson, Goliath

4. Elisa, Goliath

5. New Character, Robyn

6. New Character, New Character

7. Dingo, New Character




D. TRIPLE-POINTERS (6 points)

1. Hunter

2. Goliath, New Character


TIE-BREAKER:

21
Ed
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 7:04:30 pm EDT from 213.187.39.245

New topic: the Gargoyles 2007 prediction competition! Before GARGOYLES #3 comes out, there's just time to show off your psychic powers.

The prize: bragging rights at the year's end.

Just fill in the form and check back at the end of the year to see who's covered themselves in glory and who has, quite frankly, embarassed themselves.


A. WHICH ISSUE IN 2007? (10 points)

Gargoyles #3-6 and Bad Guys #1-2 should be released this year. Specify ONE issue in answer to each of these questions (or answer NONE).

1. Which issue in 2007 will be the first to include the word "Jalapeña"?

2. Which issue in 2007 will be the first to include a flashback to before 1994?

3. Which issue in 2007 will be the LAST to feature Owen?

4. Which issue in 2007 will include the first death?

5. Which issue in 2007 will be the first to have a line of Latin?

6. Which issue in 2007 will be the first to include the word "humanity"?

7. Which issue in 2007 will be the first to include a member of the Third Race NOT in a disguised form? (i.e. Owen and Anastasia don't count).

8. Which issue in 2007 will be the first to feature Fang?

9. Which issue in 2007 will be the LAST to feature EITHER Brendan OR the Jogger?

10. Which issue in 2007 will be the first to include the words of the name of one of the spin-offs (i.e. Bad Guys, Dark Ages, The New Olympians, Timedancer, 2198 or Pendragon).


B. GENERAL QUESTIONS (10 points)

Again, give an answer, or reply NONE. No half-points!

1. Will there be an issue with a double page spread?

2. Will there be an issue of GARGOYLES in which Hudson does not appear?

3. Name the characters who will share the LAST kiss this year.

4. Name the first continent besides North America we will see this year.

5. Will there be an issue of GARGOYLES in which Lexington does not appear?

6. Will Travis Marshall speak this year?

7. How many issues will feature Sevarius this year?

8. Will a new gargoyle character be introduced this year?

9. Will a new character from mythology or literature be introduced this year?

10. Which character introduced during the first 65 episodes will be the LAST to debut in the comic this year?


c. FIRST LINES, LAST LINES (14 points)

Name the character who will have the first line and last of dialogue of an issue (excluding Sound Effects -- e.g. roars; it must be in a speech bubble.) Either name an existing character, or say "New Character". If an issue isn't released this year, it will be excluded from the running (but there won't be a prize for guessing that, pessimists!)

1. GARGOYLES #3

2. GARGOYLES #4

3. GARGOYLES #5

4. GARGOYLES #6

5. BAD GUYS #1

6. GARGOYLES #7

7. BAD GUYS #2


D. TRIPLE-POINTERS (6 points)

1. Name the regular characters from BAD GUYS who will appear on the cover of GARGOYLES: BAD GUYS #1. (i.e. out of Hunter, Dingo, Yama, Matrix and Fang).

2. Name all the characters who will appear on the cover of GARGOYLES #7 (or say "NEW CHARACTER" for each person not introduced in the first 65 episodes or during GARGOYLES #1-2).


TIE-BREAKER:

The person with the closest guess wins.

How many times will the word "Goliath" be used this year in the stories (i.e. excluding the editorials section)?
Ed
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 7:01:23 pm EDT from 213.187.39.245

Incidentally, it should be 9 days until "new Gargoyles canon", not 10.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 6:58:12 pm EDT from 4.244.214.82

They should keep #5 as it is...blood like that is bound to sell more copies :D Reminds me of 300, LOL But I think it should stay as bloody as it is so as to attract more buyers looking for action. :P

Also remember that most comic covers are exaggerated. They remind me of sideshow posters. They exaggerate what you will see inside. Well comics are the same way. So even if inside its not as gory a fight, they still caught buyers attentions. :)
Siren
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 6:33:03 pm EDT from 68.202.76.113

Greg Weisman already gave an indication about just what would be so shocking about #7 at "Ask Greg" - that it would be a non-linear story. At least, he said that #7 would be non-linear, and I assume that it's that which is going to have the impact upon us (the non-conventional form of storytelling) and not any violent events.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 6:15:35 pm EDT from 4.244.214.82

On another note, I think I'll start a little countdown.

Ten Days till the first NEW Gargoyles canon!
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"I'll tell you one thing, if the primates that we came from had known that someday politicians would come out of the gene pool, they'd've stayed up in the trees and written evolution off as a bad idea ... I always thought the opposable thumb was overrated." - Captain John Sheridan
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 5:52:43 pm EDT from 67.87.175.245

Oh, dear. :\ I hope everything gets back on schedule and works out all right. Can't have a cranky writer. n.n

I'm not entirely sure I completely understand the cover to Masque. The colours, I mean. I don't understand why some masks are one colour and the other masks are a different colour.
Samuel - [AnglOfHellO at AOL dot com]
Noodles, anyone?
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 5:49:37 pm EDT from 24.126.61.128

Wingless: An Elisa clone is something I'd expect from one of the old 80s cartoons like Ninja Turtles or GI Joe. Frankly, I like the approach to clones in Gargoyles: they're made from the gargoyles' DNA, but they could never pass for them. Besides, it doesn't seem like Thailog's style to make a direct clone of her. Now, something like Delilah: THAT is Thailog's style.

Honestly, I have my own theory, and it involves the fact that only a few nights ago, Goliath was nearly shattered because he went to see Elisa. But we'll soon see in about a week.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"If I must beat this lesson into you, then so be it. It's for your own good!" -Demona ("Vows")
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 5:45:07 pm EDT from 71.62.204.109

For the record, neither cover posted recently has been approved... not by Disney, not by SLG, not even by me. They were posted WAY prematurely -- before I had even seen them, let alone SLG or Disney -- and frankly I'm not thrilled about having my process scooped in this way. What's done is done though. Both Greg and Steph have apologized, and I know they were both well-intentioned. But I'm still, shall we say, cranky.
Greg Weisman
"How could I not believe in animism? Every time I get on my bathroom scale, proof is there before my eyes of the sentience (and perversity) of all things."
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 4:47:37 pm EDT from 64.14.248.62

Mistakes were made, the covers were not supposed to go up. I'm glad they generated interest, but turns out they were not supposed to be unveiled yet.

No one is in trouble, but please, don't pass them around.

Thank you.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 4:12:48 pm EDT from 67.87.175.245

Jurgan> I was thinking the same thing. I thought it was my computer or something :(
Starlioness
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 4:02:03 pm EDT from 71.217.116.209

What happened to the cover images Greg posted? They seem to be gone from the wiki page, and I was trying to use them to SPREAD THE WORD. Did they get taken down for some reason?
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 3:56:57 pm EDT from 153.9.83.168

"In fairness, Goliath's bled before ("Vows")."

Not to mention within the first five minutes of the very first episode ever.
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 3:47:41 pm EDT from 153.9.83.168

Greg: Great news that it's been approved, that's the main thing. Regarding other comic covers, I don't tend to see the covers of the 'singles' since I don't have a comic shop around. I can think of a few violent or sexually suggestive covers, but this is different in that it's coming out under the Disney logo rather than Vertigo or what have you. You may be right about younger readers not knowing about but I hope not. I started reading comics around age 6 or 7, mostly stuff based on animations I'd watched like Turtles, so I imagine there must be others in a similar boat, especially if it's still shown on Toon Disney.

Actually, that's an idea for a promotional thing. Back when they showed Gargoyles in the late 90s, the Disney Channel had its own studio and presenters for the link sections and they did competitions and had guests and stuff. Does anyone know if there's anything like this now; if so, I wondered if it might be worth writing in to see about cross-promoting the comic or even the DVDs. Maybe they can get a copy to give away or something.

Demonskrye: True, but isn't Reign with Max or Knights or one of those imprints? It's not so much that it gets displayed as where it gets displayed. But if it gets new people who haven't necessarily followed the comic before to pick it up then awesome.

I'm reminded of someone's blog entry... maybe Tom Brevoort's... which stated that comics generally seep their readership week on week unless something is done to spike them (e.g. a new story). You'd think that 'Gargoyles' would be kind of atypical given the nature of its fandom, but still, it would be nice to think the return of Demona in #3, Thailog in #4 and the dramatic cover to #5 will keep bringing new people to the table.

Vaevictis Asmadi: In fairness, Goliath's bled before ("Vows"). I assumed that Greg's teaser for "The Rock" was hinting at some kind of revelation (in the manner of "Owen is Puck!"); I hadn't thought of it being a death. That's an interesting idea.

Matt: Well said!

Oh, and on the topic of saying thanks: thanks to Stephanie Lostimolo for providing the cover, and to Greg B for the heads up!
Ed
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 3:10:33 pm EDT from 213.187.39.245

I'm glad to hear that Disney has already approved that cover!
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 2:31:55 pm EDT from 209.162.56.94

For all the people being worried about Goliath because of that cover. I doubt he's really going to die, comics have a tendency to show a worst case scenario on the covers. Like a villain hovering over a knocked out hero or even showing what appears to be a heroes death. I think it's kinda to build up suspense before you read it, to get you thinking "Uh oh, is so and so really in trouble this time?"

Just my two cents anyway.
Ozzie Arcane - [ozziearcane at wowway dot com]
"Hello Booby, this is a trap!" - Eggplant Wizard from Captain N
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 1:54:18 pm EDT from 69.14.122.91

Cover #5> Before anyone gets too worried about Goliath recovering or having any permanent physical scars or what have you, keep in mind we know very little about what happens in this issue. For all we know, the scene on the cover could be taking place a minute before sunrise. (It could also be a dream or someone messing with Goliath's mind, but I'm guessing Greg W. wouldn't trick us with a cop out like that.) Also, we are pretty much garaunteed that Goliath isn't going to be getting the Wind Ceremony just yet. Though all the stuff revealed in Ask Greg is subject to change, we can fairly assume that Goliath is gonna stay around long enough to reconcille with Elisa and do whatever else Greg has said he will in the future. One of the downsides of knowing all this stuff in advance, I guess. Plus, it just seems highly ulikely that the main character of any comic or franchise will end up dead five issues into the series.

Much as we've had our gripes with Disney for various reasons, it does seem like they are commited to aiming this and the other SLG comics at an older audience. I think it's part of why they went with Slave Labor in the first place. It's nice to see that they're apparently willing to go as far as having a comic with the Disney name on it where the cover shows the hero clutching his recently opened torso.

Cover #4> I think this looks good as well and again, I'm happy to see less generic covers. But the reason I haven't responded to it as much is because I really don't know what it's about. That's not to say it's bad at all. It's still intriguing and should propt readers to check out what's inside. But since we haven't seen issue #3 yet, I couldn't even begin to hazard a guess as to what this cover says about the story inside. Number 5 just happens to be a lot more direct.
Demonskrye
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 1:39:57 pm EDT from 146.115.115.164

Sorry for the double post.

Amen, Matt! Amen!
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"In these days of widespread illiteracy, functional illiteracy... anything that keeps people stupid is a felony." -Harlan Ellison
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 1:17:00 pm EDT from 67.87.175.245

Wingless> Dude, all I did was disagree with your theory. I just don't think we will be seeing an "Evil Elisa Clone". For another thing, it would be redundant. We already have an "Evil Elisa Clone", her name is Delilah.

You presented a theory, and I'm discussing why I disagree. I just think it'd be dramatically lazy. And Greg is too good a writer to resort to something like that. There has always been conflict in Goliath and Elisa's relationship. Difficulties. It's all supposed to reach a head here in the Double Date story. Storywise, it has to be the real Elisa.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"In these days of widespread illiteracy, functional illiteracy... anything that keeps people stupid is a felony." -Harlan Ellison
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 1:10:31 pm EDT from 67.87.175.245

Wow, I never expected the Double Date story we've been talking about for a DECADE would turn out like this. I must say, all these years I thought greg was giving away so much, but it looks like he was keeping a lot secret. Good for him.

This is bizarre, friends. I'm still reeling over the fact that here we are on the cusp of a NEW Greg Weisman written Gargoyles story. How lucky are we? I was watching my second favorite animated series, Exosquad, the other day and I realized that the Exo-fandom never organized the way we have and because of that the series has pretty much died out. We are lucky. We are getting what we've wanted for years. A proper Gargoyles third season, and man does it look like it is setting up to be the most thrilling season yet. Wow. Lets take a minute and be grateful. And give ourselves and Greg Weisman a round of cyber-applause. Hell, I'm feeling generous, so I'll even say a thank you to Disney for this oppurtunity. They may not always have given us what we want, but they have this time, and I'm thankful. Anyway, I'm rambling.

Kudos to this fandom. Lets just hope Goliath gets out of this one alright.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both human... and gargoyle!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 1:08:17 pm EDT from 24.207.163.239

Greg B - Geez,it'd be nice if you'd let someone have a little their comments. Hey, I like the character and I'm concerned. What can I say.

As for the Elisa clone issue. I'm not writing the comic and neither are you-so we'll both have to wait and find out now, won't we. Any thing's possible. I'm entitled to my theories, but I might have to swallow my words, and so might you. Time will tell.
Wingless
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 12:34:07 pm EDT from 74.105.128.170

Cover 5> that definately got my attention, and it was surprising compared to prior ones. Namely surprised by the blood, but as has been mentioned earlier, it makes for a much better preview for the content than the prior covers. And it definately makes you curious about what is going on.
Asatira
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 12:33:16 pm EDT from 131.204.218.155

Actually, according to Steph Lostimolo, that cover has apparantly already been approved.

Ed> The cons you list shouldn't really be much of a problem.

"1. I hope Disney green-light it, and without dragging their heels. "

As said above, Disney, apparantly, already approved the cover.

"2. I hope it doesn't put off store owners from putting it on accessible display, and particularly alongside Disney comics, where people with a casual interest in a defunct Disney series are likely to be looking."

You take a look at other comic book covers lately? I doubt very much store owners will have a problem with this.

"3. I hope it doesn't disincentivise parents from letting kids buy the comic. I frequented the local comic store regularly as a young kid (before it went bust) but I doubt I'd have been allowed to pick this up. I don't know how many kids are there buying the comic these days but with Toon Disney airings and DVDs hopefully there's a few younger readers, and we need all the readers we can get."

Yeah, it might put parents off, but I doubt there are many younger readers, if any. I never see parents and kids in comic book stores, and when I do, they're buying Yugioh cards, or something like that. Besides, "Gargoyles" comics are going to appeal to older readers more, anyway.

WINGLESS> Well, Goliath is a warrior. Warriors get hurt. It happens.

"*still thinks Elisa has been cloned and that's the one who's broken off with Goliath to set him off balance-but that's my theory*"

Sure... if this were the "Goliath Chronicles". It's not. We're back to character driven drama. This has to be the Double Date story, and it is the REAL Elisa that breaks his heart. Anything else would be a dramatic cop-out.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"In these days of widespread illiteracy, functional illiteracy... anything that keeps people stupid is a felony." -Harlan Ellison
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 12:06:03 pm EDT from 67.87.175.245

As a fan Goliath's character...that cover is....disturbing. That's not to say I want it censored, changed, altered, or edited in any way. I just don't like seeing Goliath getting hurt-especially that badly. What disturbs me even more is being left with that image for months without knowing what's going to happen! *Cries* So I'm a big 41 year old kid, so sue me! ^_^.

As for Thailog using the weapon rather than his talons. Thailog like Xanatos has always been one of those types that doesn't really like to get his hands(or talons) dirty. So why not use a weapon to make things easier *cringes at the thought* Help Greg, I don't like where this is leading.

*still thinks Elisa has been cloned and that's the one who's broken off with Goliath to set him off balance-but that's my theory*
Wingless
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 11:41:27 am EDT from 74.105.128.170

Bah! I for got to change my color again! here, it's fixed!
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 11:35:54 am EDT from 142.59.132.201

Greg B: Thanks!

Cover 4 and 5 look great.

YouTube> I won't watch up to the third "World Tour" episode on YOuTube, but the rest are fair Game. I mean, If Disney Won't release them, Where else can i view them? My local TV stations don't show them, I'm not gonna purchase bootleg discs off Ebay (I want the real thing) and lastly, it's disney's own fault. I want to see these episodes, and this is the only place to do so.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 11:35:24 am EDT from 142.59.132.201

Wow... now that's a cover. That's the sort of thing that'll get people, old fans and newcomers alike, to pick up the book.

VA: Worry not, I'm sure Goliath's not going to die for a long time yet.
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 11:34:03 am EDT from 153.9.83.136

Oops, I mean that it means Greg thinks The Rock is even more shocking than this.


This can't really be Goliath's death, right? I just want to reassure myself. That looks really nasty.
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 11:02:01 am EDT from 209.162.56.94

Holy Crap!

That's really not something you could do in the cartoon!

OUCH I really hope Goliath is OK! This has me worried. And Greg said that The Rock would blow our collective minds... that would mean he thinks even more shocking than this!

I am worried that it will take several months for Disney to approve this, if ever.


A few things:

1. I say it's definitely Thailog. Look at the armor on the head. Also neither of Coldstone's knees are pure flesh.

2. Claws make puncture wounds, a knife with sharp edges makes wide slashing wounds. Slashing causes a lot more tissue and organ damage.
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 11:00:51 am EDT from 209.162.56.94

Thailogs blade will make more damage while talons will just be deep scratches. It looks like Thailogs blade went quite deep in Goliath and it could penetrate a major organ.

I doubt the loincloth will be stained probably be washed or have a new loincloth
Vicky82 - [Vickyfanofwwe at aol dot com]
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 9:45:23 am EDT from 195.93.21.4

A couple thoughts about Issue 5 for open discussion.

1. We've had a bit of a preview of Issue 4's cover for a while, but it is pretty obvious #5 is having more of a reaction. Which is understandable, I just think it is interesting.

2. Why does Thailog need that blade thing? I mean, gargoyle talons can tear down stone walls and rip through steel, don't tell me that garg talons can't rip through gargoyle hide.

3. You think Goliath will have any permenant scars like Hudson's eye? Do you think Goliath's loincloth will be stained from here on out?
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both human... and gargoyle!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 9:33:46 am EDT from 24.207.163.239

Matt> A piece of lint is more engaging that that episode.

Or almost all of The Goliath Chronicles, ("The Journey" being the only exception) for that matter.

Now that I think about it, I can't help but wonder how many more seasons Gargoyles would've had if Greg W. had stayed on and TGC had never happened.

Hmmm...
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
'Ignore Me!' - Venture Bros.
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 8:55:46 am EDT from 69.95.29.171

Covers> They do look really good and I'm pretty sure that's Thailog giving Goliath a little invasive sugery. (I thought Coldstone too at first glance, but upon a closer look, the armor and color scheme more closely match Thailog.) What I'm really happy about is that we're seeing more story specific covers. Though they've been very good, two of the three covers we've had prior to this have been kind of generic shots of a group of characters. I like covers that tease the story inside and really make you want to pick up the comic to see what's going on.

I second the opinion that retailers will not be turned off by Goliath's copious bleeding. Considering that there's a cover currently on the shelves which features Venom eating Spider-Man (Spider-Man: Reign #4), it's probably not going to raise too many eyebrows. This does seem to contradict Greg's earlier assertions that the comic would not be doing anything that they couldn't do on the TV show. I wonder how this bodes for the handling of Lex's sexuality?
Demonskrye
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 8:54:33 am EDT from 146.115.115.164

What the hell is Thailog's problem!?

This sure blows "Genesis Undone" out of the water. This one cover is more engaging then that entire episode.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both human... and gargoyle!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 8:44:57 am EDT from 24.207.163.239

Comics> Wow.

Damn, but... damn.

The covers are absolutely beautiful, and I agree with whoever said that it looks like Coldstone on $5. Don't think it actually is, though.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
'Ignore Me!' - Venture Bros.
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 7:59:10 am EDT from 69.95.29.171

Sorry for the double post I agree al ittle bit about the cons only that it will shock people because it used to be Disney cartoon but I don't think it will put store onwers off cos there alot more violent comics out there in comic book shops. There might some parents stopping kids (depends how old they are) from buying it but Marvel comics show more violence and blood in there comics.
Vicky82 - [Vickyfanofwwe at aol dot com]
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 7:39:08 am EDT from 195.93.21.4

Wow I am totally speachless I didn't think they show that much blood on the cover. Thinking about it Goliath could be losing alot more blood in the issue itself. I wonder what the clan's and Elisa's reaction when they come to save him will be, certainly shocked.
Vicky82 - [Vickyfanofwwe at aol dot com]
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 7:26:49 am EDT from 195.93.21.4

13th!

I'm surprised about the violence of the cover to #5. It's not a surprise that the story would be violent given Thailog and Demona's presence and the history of their stories (just ask Gillecomgain). Still, this sort of thing is pretty easy to replicate at home, which I thought was an S&P no-no, and since as far as I knew a lot of comics still didn't show red blood (substituting blue or black), so I didn't expect that.

I've mixed feelings about it, really.

Cons: -

1. I hope Disney green-light it, and without dragging their heels.

2. I hope it doesn't put off store owners from putting it on accessible display, and particularly alongside Disney comics, where people with a casual interest in a defunct Disney series are likely to be looking.

3. I hope it doesn't disincentivise parents from letting kids buy the comic. I frequented the local comic store regularly as a young kid (before it went bust) but I doubt I'd have been allowed to pick this up. I don't know how many kids are there buying the comic these days but with Toon Disney airings and DVDs hopefully there's a few younger readers, and we need all the readers we can get.

Pros: -

1. It's an absolutely superb cover -- very powerful and striking and memorable, beautifully drawn and wonderfully coloured.

2. It may, which perhaps was the point, send a signal to Marvel/DC followers that this is an action drama in the vein of other comics they read rather than "just a Disney comic".

3. It indicates Greg has (or aspires to) freer or at least as free S&P compared to the show, which should bode well for the story.

4. It looks like this is going to be a very exciting and dramatic storyline, but I think we already expected that. ;)
Ed
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 7:26:39 am EDT from 213.187.39.245

HARVESTER - Yes, I think so as well.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 7:24:57 am EDT from 4.244.209.230

Todd: I'm pretty sure it's Thailog. We've already seen how he likes to accessorize.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"If I must beat this lesson into you, then so be it. It's for your own good!" -Demona ("Vows")
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 6:51:35 am EDT from 71.62.204.109

On the cover for #5: is that Coldstone that Goliath's facing? It looks like him in some ways, but I'm a bit dubious - with everything else going on already (such as Thailog's scheming) - Coldstone returning and attacking Goliath would make the story way too complicated.

Or is Goliath's opponent on the cover Thailog? From the angle, it's hard to tell.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 6:32:13 am EDT from 4.244.209.230

(10)tenth! And away we go on with the show.
Vinnie - [tpeano29 at hotmail dot com]
Remember the old Gargoyles comics!
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 5:44:37 am EDT from 69.54.209.135

9th
JJ Gregarius
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 4:54:09 am EDT from 206.57.91.179

Dang typo.
Makhasu
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 3:55:20 am EDT from 24.165.2.99

Eigth.
Makhasu
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 3:55:03 am EDT from 24.165.2.99

7th in the name of a new comic coming out.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 2:19:01 am EDT from 216.96.22.110

51><7h
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1 at sbcglobal dot net]
Humans are such easy prey for a gargoyle!........oh, and my new gamertag on xbox live for 360 is "I am Goliath"
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 1:37:31 am EDT from 69.231.230.90

Reposting from last week:

With special thanks to Stephanie Lostimolo, here is the finished cover for issue four:

http://gargoyles.dracandros.com/Clan_Building_Chapter_Four:_Masque

And the cover for issue five:

http://gargoyles.dracandros.com/Clan_Building_Chapter_Five:_Bash
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"In these days of widespread illiteracy, functional illiteracy... anything that keeps people stupid is a felony." -Harlan Ellison
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 1:32:55 am EDT from 67.87.175.245

fourth!
Asatira
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 1:22:34 am EDT from 68.119.85.142

Third!
Kaylle
GargoylesDVD.com
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 1:07:20 am EDT from 66.31.44.143

second
oneuke
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 1:01:56 am EDT from 69.3.119.78

Dare I attempt to say First??
Phoenician - [theoneandonlyphoenician at yahoo dot com]
The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Mon, Mar 19, 2007 1:01:09 am EDT from 157.242.209.126