Comment Room Archive : Gargoyles : Station Eight

The drop in orders is disappointing, particularly since this is really "the big one": many fans would probably have seen "The Journey" before, but this is all-new material. Hopefully the final sales figures will show the caution is undeserved.

The artwork issue... I should first say I do have a lot of sympathy for the artists. The fandom, understandably, are perfectionists. But it's a hard thing to have the luxury to perfect. I don't know what the pay is, but I guess if you divided it by the time spent, the "hourly rate" would be pretty eyewatering. And there's a lot of homework involved. If you do a Spider-Man or an Uncle Scrooge or whatever you might have to master up to a dozen lisenced characters and a few regular locations. But this issue alone has *counts* 31 established characters, 4 new ones, and almost every page contains a place that's been established previously and which need to be recognisable to the readers.

Now, I quite like David Hedgecock's work. It's not yet spectacular, but it's pretty solid and improving. Obviously, I'd love Greg Guler doing 12 issues a year but that's just not realistic. Issue crits are fair game, but in between times I see no point in carping at our guys (not that anyone here has been doing this), second-guessing Greg and the gang or otherwise trying to retrieve lemons out of lemonade.

All this said, I think there's anecdotal evidence that the art has a fair number of detractors. If the art was discussed here, I'm sure it's at least registered elsewhere. Greg B's read other comics board. My brother volunteered words to the effect that he's ambivalent about it and he has no real concept of what being a comic artist entails and was completely unprompted. I guess other people would have similar anecdotes.

That said, is the art a reason for the drop in orders? My feeling: almost certainly not.

'Gargoyles' readers are generally people who knew the cartoon or knew of the cartoon, and who want to get into the universe. I don't think the art is a very big sales point as it might be for other comics, and in any event the covers are strong. I think the comic may not get a sales bump from people who will buy comics for art or artists (and I know people who do) but I don't buy that people who bought #1 and #2 are turning away from the comic having been disappointed by the art. I'm sure there are one or two, but it doesn't strike me as particularly likely. If people are grousing about the art, chances are they've already bought a copy.

Just in the course of pimping the thing around, the negative responses I get don't tend to have much to do with the art -- most people who might buy it but don't never get as far as cracking the cover. The reasons I hear for interesting people not buying the comic fall into two broad categories:

1. It's hard to get into. The canon isn't available in its entirety. There's a huge gap between "Kingdom" and "Nightwatch" and the series is a decade old. For a lot of people, the comic is like asking people to start reading 'Lord of the Rings' with "The Two Towers" -- they want to read 'The Hobbit' and "The Fellowship of the Ring" first, not unfairly. Plus, quite frankly, it's one of the most newbie-phobic comics I've ever read. Even the recap pages strike me as complicating things as much as they clarify. And it's a ten year old series. Outside the hardcores, people aren't gagging to find out more -- or, necessarily, can remember much of the detail of the stories originally even if they were obsessed with it when it first aired. I suspect that if/when Season 2.2 is released there'll be a very swift bump in sales as an entire group of casual, but completist, fans and would-be fans are tapped into.

2. It's hard to find. A lot of people want to wait for the trades rather than reading stories piecemeal; trades are easier to get hold of and have the complete stories, no delays. This is a problem across the board for comics, admittedly, but it may particularly affect 'Gargoyles' which is famous for telling quite intricate extended stories. It can be quite hard to track these issues down and unless you're a crazy fan, there's not really much of an incentive to buy the thing piecemeal at greater hassle and personal expense.

3. Oh, it's out is it? The same sorts of problems Matt describes and which should be solved long-term by a consistent release schedule.

Blis: Belatedly, welcome to the CR! :)
Ed Reynolds
posted @ Sat, Apr 7, 2007 5:30:58 pm EDT from 213.187.38.72

Greg B> No worries. I know. Sorry if I came off as confrontational. You did not, at least not anymore than normal. ; )
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Sat, Apr 7, 2007 4:41:16 pm EDT from 24.207.163.239

Asatira> That would fall under what I meant by 'other things'. :-)

I just wasn't up for re-typing everything word for word or going into a fully detailed summary.

I could C+P'ed it onto here, but meh.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
"Ignore me!" - Venture Bros.
posted @ Sat, Apr 7, 2007 4:39:10 pm EDT from 69.95.196.121

To add to what King Cobra has said, they've also posted a TENTATIVE schedule (it's not set yet, things may change between now and then). Me, I am so looking forward to the art panels. Which means I should get my but in gear and register a room. :)
Asatira
posted @ Sat, Apr 7, 2007 4:33:44 pm EDT from 68.184.65.172

Well, with #4 and #5 hopefully coming out on time, let's hope things pick up.

Matt> Just FYI, I wasn't posting there to bash the art. At this point, everyone's opinions on the art are known, and what is also known is that everyone supports and wants what is best for the comic. So, I wasn't coming at it to bash or complain, but out of concern for sales.

Believe me, I hope Hedgecock gets better. He has shown improvement since the first issue. And, hopefully with three issues off, he'll have some time to get better also.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"I'll tell you one thing, if the primates that we came from had known that someday politicians would come out of the gene pool, they'd've stayed up in the trees and written evolution off as a bad idea ... I always thought the opposable thumb was overrated." - Captain John Sheridan
posted @ Sat, Apr 7, 2007 4:08:18 pm EDT from 67.87.175.245

Dunno if anyone has read it yet, but I just got a new G2K7 newsletter in my hotmail.

Thom Adcox will be attending this year and we have a new mascot.

Among other things.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
"Ignore me!" - Venture Bros.
posted @ Sat, Apr 7, 2007 4:04:48 pm EDT from 69.95.91.63

I bought my copies from two different retailers here in the St Louis area. Both expressed to me that they thought it might've been cancelled or something and one actually said to me, "We would've ordered more, but it comes out so rarely." I told him hopefully it'll be more regular now.

So, I think the schedule and release issues have far more to do with any decline in sales than the art does. Casual fans and not so casual fans may disagree, but I think thats the truth. As many of you know, for the most part I like the art and I think it is getting better, but even if I thought it was quite horrible I would still think that the story will carry the book somewhat well. Obviously we had more than one tv episode where the story was far better than the art. In any case, with the schedule getting back on track (hopefully) and with numerous guest artists working on several issues, hopefully sales will increase.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Sat, Apr 7, 2007 4:00:30 pm EDT from 24.207.163.239

Vaevictis Asmadi> You can thank me for that. I e-mailed Amazon and SLG about the lack of an Amazon listing. I was told by Dan Vado, President of SLG, and he said, "We decided to wait until after we had our copies of Gargoyles #3 before we listed them with Amazon. That listing should be up in a couple of weeks."

Patrick> SLG isn't complaining. I e-mailed them complaining that my comic guy didn't have issue #3 and they replied telling me possible reasons and then Dan mentioned the fact that the sales had been down. So he were just stating a fact to back up what he was talking about.

Greg B> I haven't read anything about the artwork, but I can certainly believe that people are complaining. People complain about anything and everything. I, for one, wish that the art IN the comic was as good as the cover art, but at least we have new storyline and beggers can't be choosers, but we always be complainers, right? :)
Tony - [tinitinytony at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Sat, Apr 7, 2007 4:00:10 pm EDT from 71.181.148.232

To take a leaf out of Hudson's book: We didn't survive eleven years of cancellation just to get new stories and then lose them again.

Things will turn out right . . . let's just hope the schedule won't fall behind again. (Greg W seems pretty confident that they're on track.)
Phoenician - [theoneandonlyphoenician at yahoo dot com]
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Sat, Apr 7, 2007 3:49:50 pm EDT from 157.242.216.80

Did SLG expect orders to NOT be down after a four-month lag between issues? Most comic book shops are small businesses. They're not going to order any more copies of a title than they think they can sell, and any title that is not coming out on a regular schedule is going to seem like a riskier purchase. What's the retailer's profit margin on that $3.50 cover price, anyway? Probably not enough that anyone wants to get stuck with a bunch of unsold copies. But to get to my real point... SLG has no basis to complain about this to the fans. It's a problem of their own making caused by the erratic way they've been publishing.

76 days left until The Gathering 2007 in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2007]
"I've seen the movies. There's always a bunch of Christians gathered around the cross at the end. 'It's a shame that he has to die,' And Jesus is going, 'Well maybe I wouldn't have to if someone would get a ladder and a pair of pliers!'" - Sam Kinison
posted @ Sat, Apr 7, 2007 3:17:34 pm EDT from 65.43.179.157

Well, I'm sorry Greg. I just like to check-in (pretty much) to let you know that I'm not dead!
Blis
posted @ Sat, Apr 7, 2007 3:06:11 pm EDT from 4.90.12.78

Matt> Just saying what I've read at other comic book message boards. I haven't said anything, I haven't egged anything on. Just been spreading the word about the release of the comic and praising the story.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"I'll tell you one thing, if the primates that we came from had known that someday politicians would come out of the gene pool, they'd've stayed up in the trees and written evolution off as a bad idea ... I always thought the opposable thumb was overrated." - Captain John Sheridan
posted @ Sat, Apr 7, 2007 2:33:53 pm EDT from 67.87.175.245

Greg B> "Hedgecock's art is not going over well with the more casual fans."

Do you have any evidence to support that? What, did you take a poll?
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Sat, Apr 7, 2007 2:21:47 pm EDT from 24.207.163.239

Well, I haven't bought it yet because it only just became available on Amazon, and the availability there is still "2 to 5 weeks" which stinks. If they don't make it more accessible, of course fewer people will buy it. Now that it is on Amazon I will be ordering it soon, however.
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Sat, Apr 7, 2007 1:35:36 pm EDT from 209.162.56.94

TONY> Of course, that's what happens when there is a six month gap between issues, like there was between #1 and #2.

This comic needs to have a consistent release. Obviously, we're going to buy it no matter when it comes out, but we alone can't support this comic. It is the new fans and more casual fans that we need.

And, not to start that debate again, but to point out what I have seen being talked about on comic book message boards. Hedgecock's art is not going over well with the more casual fans. I don't want to turn this into a debate on our own opinions on the art, but I do think it's another factor. Let's not get into the whys, it just isn't.

I am hoping #4 comes out on time. #5 also, and the book continues to come out on time. If SLG, and Disney's approval office can get their act together, I think sales will improve.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"I'll tell you one thing, if the primates that we came from had known that someday politicians would come out of the gene pool, they'd've stayed up in the trees and written evolution off as a bad idea ... I always thought the opposable thumb was overrated." - Captain John Sheridan
posted @ Sat, Apr 7, 2007 1:26:17 pm EDT from 67.87.175.245

It's too tempting to ask those. I've got another one: Did Auguste Rodin ever visit Castle Wyvern? Did he get the inspiration for sculpture "The Thinker" there?
Gerin - [malte dot ressin at gmail dot com]
posted @ Sat, Apr 7, 2007 1:24:44 pm EDT from 84.163.231.207

I e-mailed SLG Publishing concerning Gargoyles #3. I received a response from Dan Vado, President and Publisher of SLG Publishing.
"It is worth noting that orders for issue #3 were down 24% from the previous issue..." Great news, right?
Tony - [tinitinytony at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Sat, Apr 7, 2007 1:16:20 pm EDT from 71.181.148.232

It is a neat feature, already added the date to the GargWiki's timeline. A part of the wiki I would love to develop more. Here's hoping for more dates soon.

Jarrod's latest question, about mermaids and aquatic gargoyles is an idea masquerading as a question, if I ever saw one.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"I'll tell you one thing, if the primates that we came from had known that someday politicians would come out of the gene pool, they'd've stayed up in the trees and written evolution off as a bad idea ... I always thought the opposable thumb was overrated." - Captain John Sheridan
posted @ Sat, Apr 7, 2007 12:43:36 pm EDT from 67.87.175.245

Greg has started a neat new feature over in Ask Greg.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Sat, Apr 7, 2007 12:02:00 pm EDT from 24.207.163.239

If the Timedancer story does indeed occur during Clan Building, I would say it it's most likely going to be #10-12.

Mainly because it's been said that the Phoenix Gate arrives to snatch Brooklyn in it's flames not too long after The Journey 1997. And Greg has stated that #9 is the last issue set in 1996.

Since I mentioned it though, I'm wondering if some of Greg's stories will require passage of time (like in The Reckoning), you know as a way of eventually catching up to the present. Even if not no big deal. I mean, Talespin was set in the 1930s and still had good stories.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo,com]
posted @ Sat, Apr 7, 2007 5:11:00 am EDT from 71.115.217.211

Samuel> Yeah, I've always wondered about Malibu's green hair too...

As for Delilah's mate, I think he is likely a gargoyle we havn't met yet since the only available male gargoyles that are somewhat close in age to her and we know are available don't seem to fit. Griff maybe, though they don't seem like a very good couple. Yama maybe if things don't work with Sora, they don't seem like a good couple either. One of the clones of course, but that seems too obvious. Maybe in the end, her mate will be Thailog.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Sat, Apr 7, 2007 2:20:42 am EDT from 24.207.163.239

There's a pretty funny review of Gargoyles #2 on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_fcYsdOIrc

Discuss!
Tony - [tinitinytony at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Sat, Apr 7, 2007 1:39:28 am EDT from 72.79.182.195

Jurgan: That original entry was actually in danger of being deleted. So I figured I'd try a different approach. This time, I thought I'd take some advice that someone gave a few weeks ago, and since it's a website devoted to "non-facts," well, it didn't sound like a bad idea. Won't say who that person was, so they don't have to burn with me. But, what could be more non-fact than saying that Greg has a shrine to Egon Pax?
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"At least the killing part appeals to you, doesn't it?" -Durandal.
posted @ Fri, Apr 6, 2007 11:35:09 pm EDT from 71.62.204.109

Demon@ and Abby, thanks :) I just uploaded a new vid last night, but its not Gargoyles. Its Hunchback
Siren - [Click my name for my music videos!]
posted @ Fri, Apr 6, 2007 9:39:00 pm EDT from 68.202.76.113

I've finally had a chance to look at #3 and like it a lot. The previous reviews and comments summarize it well, so I don't have much to add. But I think the art and color is coming along nicely, for the most part.

Siren, your new music video ("Missing") is excellent - in some places the lyrics match what's happening to Demona so perfectly. Great job!
Abby
"Boy, the city sure is different when it snows." "Yeah. It's colder." - "The Price"
posted @ Fri, Apr 6, 2007 8:58:04 pm EDT from 75.73.113.53

Hello, Gerin. It's nice to see a new fan.

I had more to say, but I forget it now.

Delilah & Mate: I have an almost perverse desire that Thailog's (presumable) intentions to re-caputure Delilah work. But that's probably because he's the only clone with a personality.

Burbank: I too hope he shaves his beard. Maybe he'll grow a goatee.

Speaking of Malibu, what colour is his hair supposed to be?
Samuel - [AnglOfHellO at AOL dot com]
"What sorcery is this?!"
posted @ Fri, Apr 6, 2007 8:23:42 pm EDT from 64.12.116.197

In the case of the Gargoyle costumes being popular, remember that gargoyles were already a very popular urban legend in NYC.

"Seems everyone has a friend, cousin, or dentist who's seen one."

So, I can believe that gargoyle costumes were already being sold, then once they were exposed to the world, the costumes got really popular, really fast.

As for whether Jason Canmore knows that Goliath is the "mysterious boyfriend", way I read it, it seemed like he was being sarcastic when he said it. Of course he knows it's Goliath.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"I'll tell you one thing, if the primates that we came from had known that someday politicians would come out of the gene pool, they'd've stayed up in the trees and written evolution off as a bad idea ... I always thought the opposable thumb was overrated." - Captain John Sheridan
posted @ Fri, Apr 6, 2007 7:34:24 pm EDT from 67.87.175.245

PURPLEGOLDFISH - Your comment on Xanatos and the gargoyle costumes reminds me of the comment that I made about the Quarrymen getting outfitted so quickly after "Hunter's Moon".
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Fri, Apr 6, 2007 7:30:43 pm EDT from 4.244.213.57

Burbank is the same "age" as the rest of the clones. He is approximately Goliath's age. He is definitly not too old to father a couple eggs if it came to that. I really wish Burbank wasn't drawn with a beard. I think it'd make it more obvious that he was younger than Hudson and it would make him stand out more. Oh well.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Fri, Apr 6, 2007 7:27:37 pm EDT from 24.207.163.239

disneyinfo@disneyhelp.com

I suggest we all contact them and express our interest in Gargoyles Season 2 Vol 2. I'm tired of waiting for it to come out. I want the rest of Season 2 and I wanted it two years ago. So let's get off our "sit downs" and make it happen. I'm doing something, what are you doing? Let's do it! Let's get Vol 2 released!!!!

Thanks for the info on Bad Guys comic. There needs to be some sort of "News" section of this site. There is too much archived data to sift through.
Tony
posted @ Fri, Apr 6, 2007 5:35:59 pm EDT from 71.181.159.193

<<Brooklyn appears, a huge army of Persians running towards him, and from behind... "FOR SPARTA!!!!!!!">>

Brooklyn: "Oh boy..."

77 days left until The Gathering 2007 in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2007]
"And kids eat chocolate eggs, because of the color of the chocolate, and the color of the wood on the cross..." - Eddie Izzard
posted @ Fri, Apr 6, 2007 5:31:00 pm EDT from 70.229.194.36

Tony> But what email did you use to contact them?? Again, I'd use it to find a land-address, since I would want to write something physical and the service on my cell phone is so terrible in Los Angeles that I just KNOW I'm going to get cut off.

As for the Bad-Guys Mini-Series: This October, fans will get the chance to purchase the first issue of a six-part limited series titled "Bad Guys."

It will be released the opposite months that the current Gargoyles Comic is released, so in a sense we'll have a monthly Gargoyle comic!

It will be in Black & White, with the covers colored -- largely an economic decsion, but Greg W. feels fine with it.

If the mini-series is successful, there will probably another mini-series to follow it. And if it's REALLY a hit, it may continue as a full blown spinoff.

But that's thinking a little ahead, quite frankly. The big thing to get right now is Comic #3 so you'll be caught up when Comic #4 comes out in May.

Hope that clarifies, Tony!
Phoenician - [theoneandonlyphoenician at yahoo dot com]
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Fri, Apr 6, 2007 5:19:16 pm EDT from 157.242.213.112

hehe well I guess the comic hype has toned down now that it's been a week since probably almost everyone read it-and I just got mine yesterday. Oh well.

Anyway, here's the rest of my thoughts on "Invitation Only":

**********SPOILERS********************

I like how the title of the story coincides with the Xanatos invitation on the title page. I also find it amusing for some reason that Foxs' name comes before David's on the invite.
I like the little family moment with the Xanatos'-and like I mentioned earlier, I think it segues in nicely with Elisa's little break-up speech later in the issue.
I like Alex's gargoyle costume. I can't help thinking that Xanatos had something to do with the sudden distribution of gargoyle costumes-it does fit in nicely with his plans to reveal the gargoyles later on. Besides, the time between Hunter's moon when gargoyles became widely known and this issue is not nearly enough time for costume companies to make and distribute all those designs.
The radio(television?) broadcast is amusing-typical media-never have their facts straight.

It's nice to see some new cops at the 23rd other than elisa, matt, and morgan. I already knew Morgan's full name but it was kind of weird seeing "Morgan Morgan" in print as canon. I wonder what people who don't know the backstory will think...heh maybe some will think it's a typo. I'm also curious to know what the taskforce members think of the gargoyles (other than elisa, matt, and margot).

The Illuminati has got to stick its nose into everything-playing all sides. I wonder what their true goal is, and what they're getting out of it. After this issue, I find myself becoming more interested in the Illuminati. I haven't really been before.
And Martin Hacker-I find myself really disliking him. He's even more slimy than Xanatos! Whenever we got the closeup of him saying "32" I had the urge to slap that smirk off his face.

So Xanatos plans to reveal the gargoyles after the party. Even though he harbors them, he still does sneaky things behind their backs-I can't wait to see how this all plays out in later issues. I don't understand the significance of Hacker taking off his ring and putting it in his pocket during his scene with Xanatos.

Demona's cameo: I'm not sure if this really fits in with the pacing of the rest of the issue, but I am curious to find out what she's planning now. I think the remnants of the praying gargoyle statue could've been made more apparent. If I didn't read the spoilers, I would have no idea what's going on there.
Personally, I'm a little iffy about the whole Atlantean crystal deal (I've never been to a Gathering, so I only know the basic story). This is just my opinion, but I really really don't like the Disney "Atlantis" movie-so I'm not too keen on the connection it has with the gargoyles-besides, adding yet another magical island to the garg universe is pushing it a little, I think. Oh well, as long as we don't have cameos from any "Atlantis" characters, I won't be too put off by it.

I'm really glad to see the labyrinth again. I've always liked the subplots with the mutates. I don't understand what goliath means when he says they have to honor their obligations before going to the labyrinth. It seems the only purpose he has for going there is to ask Delilah out, and brooklyn tags along because he's sick of seeing broadway and angela together.

I'm very intrigued by this new character in the labyrinth. She does kind of look like a young punk version of Elisa, but I seriously doubt that it's her in disguise, as some people seem to think. I wonder why Greg made it a point not to reveal her name in this issue. I hope she'll play a part in more Gargoyle stories, and isn't just there for a conveniant way to bring newcomers up to speed on the story of the mutates and clones-speaking of which, it's a little annoying to have to have two pages of backstory that most of us already know. How about this-instead of showing the whole backstory in the comic, there could be a little editor's note on the page saying "Buy the DVDs to find out what happened!" At least, up until the reckoning ;)
I like Al here too-he's got a great personality. I like his little name for Talon-"Boss-Cat" Cute.

I noticed that both Talon and Maggie proclaim "Send in the Clones!" heh, they're certainly meant for each other. The clones' big dramatic entrance is a little corny though. And yay, we finally see more of my avatar character :) I would like to see more of Delilah, and I'm very curious as to her role in the rest of this story arc. Brooklyn gets snubbed by Goliath. I don't know, for some reason I don't feel all that sorry for him-maybe it's because of his mopy "poor me" attitude since the beginning of the story arc. I would have thought that Goliath would have told Brooklyn on the way to the Labyrinth his intention of asking out delilah. I guess he didn't. I'm sure if brooklyn had showed an interest in her beforehand Goliath would't have intruded.
The scene where brooklyn and delilah are saying hi to each other is kind of sweet though. I'm actually somwhat curious if Greg ever considered pairing these two up. And if he did I wonder what changed his mind-not that I'm complaining. I too am very curious to find out who delilah's mate will be.

And then of course we got Thailog. I had a feeling he would show up at the end of this issue. (I called it-he had the last word ;)!) The smile with all the teeth is really creepy-a bit much, I think. A great cliffhangar, and it will be hard to wait for the upcoming books. I'm very excited to see how this all plays out.

Whew, it took me over an hour to write this! Please feel free to comment :)
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn at aol dot com]
"Whoa, Tiny, you mean there's more than one of you?" "My name is not Tiny! I am Goliath!" - Elisa and Tiny
posted @ Fri, Apr 6, 2007 5:13:14 pm EDT from 64.12.116.200

Delilah with someone> To be honest, I hadn't thought about it beyond the double date scenario. Goes to show how I can underestimate the potential of a character. First, it'd depend on how much she overcomes/goes beyond Thailog's orginal programming. If she can get over that barrier, I'd imagine she'd probably go for a clone that's shows the most intellectual and emotional potential. At this point, not sure which that one would be. She may not even chose one from within the Labrynth clan, events may occur that will expose her to other gargoyles. Then it'd be anybody's game.

As for Burbank, I'd say he looks to be about 60-80 years old, or 30-40s human equivalent. Mature, but not elderly, and certainly (IMO) doesn't look like someone in his 40s/20s. Of course, a beard instantly makes a person look older.
Asatira
posted @ Fri, Apr 6, 2007 5:11:43 pm EDT from 68.119.86.27

Phoenician> I e-mailed them saying "When will Gargoyles Season 2 Vol 2 be released? I heard that due to poor sales of Season 2 Vol 1, that the next volume will not be released. Can you please release it? I know there is high demand for Vol 2." And below is the answer I received from them. I suggest we all contact them at 1(800) 723-4763 (Canada: 888 877-2843), Monday 9:30-7:30 and Tuesday through Friday 9:30-6:30 CST.

Can anyone tell me more about this "Bad Guys mini" that everyone is talking about, and does Greg Weisman plan on incorportating his TimeDancer into the comics? Where can I find information on these topics? Thanks guys. I feel so out of the loop when you are all chatting. I want to know what's going on with the past, present and future of this comic and Gargoyles in general.
Tony
posted @ Fri, Apr 6, 2007 5:05:24 pm EDT from 71.181.159.193

The illegal/bootleg 3-season Gargoyles DVD set is being advertised/sold on Amazon. I reported it to Amazon but I feel I should report it to Disney as well. How do I do that? Does anybody know who to contact to report this?
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Fri, Apr 6, 2007 4:57:03 pm EDT from 209.162.56.94

Greg B: Good to hear you say that. Sorry to hear you're having troubles- we've all been there, and I know how it can put a damper on your mood. I'm glad to hear you're making an effort, though.

Since Greg has apologized for his post, I move that Todd delete it before Greg W. sees it. Any objections?

Gerin: Welcome to the CR! Always good to have new intelligent members. You asked:

"And how to you go about differentiating between Greg B. and Greg W. in posts?"

I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head right there.

"Are there any guidelines I should know regarding the use of the comment room, by the way?"

It's pretty informal, really. Here are a few unspoken rules you might want to remember:

1: Remember the audience. The show this site is devoted to is aimed largely at kids, so the site should not be too adult. Occasionally, we slip into discussions of semi-obscene topics or bouts of profanity, but we try not to let it get excessive.

2: Occasional long posts > Frequent short posts. This is a room for leisurely discussions, not chat. The way we typically work is that someone will bring up a topic and people make posts in response explaining their complete thoughts on the issue. If you have multiple people to respond to, we prefer that you make one long post rather than split it up into multiple short posts. Otherwise, the conversation gets choppy and it gets harder to make well thought out comments.

3: Similar to 2, remember that this comment room is not intended for fast-paced, live chatting. We try to have leisurely, intelligent discussions here. If you want to talk in something closer to real time about whatever's on your mind, there's a chat room on this same site well-suited for that purpose.

Those are some guidelines, but I wouldn't sweat it. Most people pick up the flow naturally without too many problems. Actually, I've been saying for some time now that we should have rules posted somewhere, and I'm becoming more convinced as time passes. I'm currently taking a class on Learning Disabilities (LD), and one of the recurrent themes is that, though LD students are fairly intelligent, they do not "naturally" learn how things work. In the area of their disabilites, they have to be explicitly taught the processes they need to use, while many students simply are able to absorb knowledge from experience. These difficulties frequently have an impact on social situations. Who knows- there might be smart, passionate fans who aggravate people when they post or are afraid to post at all because they don't understand the unspoken rules of this room. I suppose it would fall to Gorebash to add rules to this site, but he wouldn't even need to enforce them. Just having them stated explicitly could help the climate of this place.
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Fri, Apr 6, 2007 4:36:23 pm EDT from 153.9.83.98

Greg B> " Burbank isn't old, he wasn't artificially aged to be as old as Hudson. Burbank is Hudson if Hudson were still in his prime."

Alright, I'm curious now. Technically, (age-wise and NOT how long he had actually been 'alive') how old is Burbank?

LOL @ Brooklyn vs. Romans/Persians/whoever
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
'Ignore Me!' - Venture Bros.
posted @ Fri, Apr 6, 2007 3:40:54 pm EDT from 69.95.196.99

Delilah's mate> For some reason, I don't expect her to wind up with any of the clones. I could be wrong, though. We'll see. Maybe, I'm just underestimating the rest of the Clones.

That being said, I will laugh my ass off, if Delilah ends up with Malibu, especially after what happened in #3.

KING COBRA> Burbank isn't old, he wasn't artificially aged to be as old as Hudson. Burbank is Hudson if Hudson were still in his prime.

PHOENICIAN> Instead of the Romans, make that the Persians. Brooklyn appears, a huge army of Persians running towards him, and from behind... "FOR SPARTA!!!!!!!"
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"I'll tell you one thing, if the primates that we came from had known that someday politicians would come out of the gene pool, they'd've stayed up in the trees and written evolution off as a bad idea ... I always thought the opposable thumb was overrated." - Captain John Sheridan
posted @ Fri, Apr 6, 2007 3:33:11 pm EDT from 67.87.175.245

Demonskrye> LOL. Nice scenario.

Matt> I kind of can see Delilah going with either Malibu or Hollywood. Burbank's too old for her. It may be because he's Lex's clone, I dunno, but I can't see Brentwood with a female.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
'Ignore Me!' - Venture Bros.
posted @ Fri, Apr 6, 2007 3:26:10 pm EDT from 69.95.196.99

Demonskrye: Of course, the moment he landed in another time, Brooklyn'll probably say something to the effect of: "Geez, you have GOT to be KIDDING ME! Can this get ANY worse??"

Quickly followed by Roman soldiers attacking him with swords.
Phoenician - [theoneandonlyphoenician at yahoo dot com]
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Fri, Apr 6, 2007 3:17:19 pm EDT from 157.242.213.112

LOL, if Delilah ends up with Malibu that'd be hilarious and so sad for Brooklyn... but mostly hilarious.

I wonder who Delilah's mate will end up being. One of the clones? It'd be strange to see Delilah with Burbank (Hudson's clone).
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Fri, Apr 6, 2007 3:14:15 pm EDT from 24.207.163.239

Greg B> Very sporting of you to say that. I'm sorry you've had a bad week and I'm sorry if I came off overly harsh.

Just to lighten the mood, here's a scene unlikely to show up in any future issues of the comic.

(Goliath, Delilah, and Brooklyn are gathered on the castle's top tower.)

Goliath: I am sorry, Delilah. But I do no believe we can continue . . . "going out".

Delilah: I understand. You love Elisa. Anyway, it was a little awkward, with the whole Thailog thing and all.

(Goliath nods, departs. Brooklyn comes over to Delilah.)

Brooklyn: So, uhmm, I guess you're kinda available now.

Delilah: I suppose so.

(She thinks for a minute. Brooklyn look like he's about to say something.)

Delilah: I think I'll go see what Malibu is doing tonight.

Brooklyn: Gnkkk!

(Brooklyn falls over backwards. Oblivious, Delilah flies off.)

Brooklyn: (still prostrate, hand on forehead): Can't a guy catch a break? I mean every time I . . . hey, what's that.

Phoenix Gate: Zapt!

(Brooklyn disappears. Ten seconds pass.)

Phoenix Gate: Zapt!

(Brooklyn reappears with family in tow.)

Brooklyn: (grins) Much better!
Demonskrye
posted @ Fri, Apr 6, 2007 3:10:30 pm EDT from 146.115.115.164

Welcome to the CR, Gerin! Have a cookie . . . (Points to Cookie Table)

On Star Wars: I couldn't call myself a Star Wars nerd (only saw the originals for the first time a few years back, followed by the Prequels), but I did enjoy them. Not my favorite films, but they kept me entertained.

Tony: what was that email for "Walt Disney Home Entertainment Consumer Relations?" I'd like to ask them for an actual address so I can send a Postcard or something about wanting a S2V2 release.
Phoenician - [theoneandonlyphoenician at yahoo dot com]
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Fri, Apr 6, 2007 3:09:17 pm EDT from 157.242.213.112

Damn Siren you new video is awesome, i loved it.
Demon@
And yeah, there is still hope!!
posted @ Fri, Apr 6, 2007 2:46:14 pm EDT from 200.126.131.87

Hey Greg (B.), no problem. I guess we both learned something, and hey: the Gargoyles-Wiki's Co-Administrator got alerted by a post of mine! If that's not shiny, I don't know what is. ;-)

Are there any guidelines I should know regarding the use of the comment room, by the way? And how to you go about differentiating between Greg B. and Greg W. in posts?
Gerin - [malte dot ressin at gmail dot com]
posted @ Fri, Apr 6, 2007 2:45:26 pm EDT from 84.163.201.251

GERIN> Eh, no harm. I made too big a deal out of it, and again I'm sorry.

Welcome to the CR, btw.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"I'll tell you one thing, if the primates that we came from had known that someday politicians would come out of the gene pool, they'd've stayed up in the trees and written evolution off as a bad idea ... I always thought the opposable thumb was overrated." - Captain John Sheridan
posted @ Fri, Apr 6, 2007 1:09:14 pm EDT from 67.87.175.245

Hey people,

gee, didn't think that the SW-comment would have repercussions like that. I didn't mean to argue with or against Greg (Weisman), and at the time I wrote it I considered it a perfectly reasonable post since Greg (Weisman) did write a longer text about his dislike of RotJ (requested by a fan, admittedly). I see now it's heavily off-topic, and I won't do it again.

I would like to mention that I consider myself much more of a Gargoyles-nerd than a Star Wars fan. But I really like RotJ and absolutely digg the Luke/emperor standoff. Is there a cure? Please, doctor, tell me the truth.

Anyway, no harm meant, no harm taken. Sorry. :-)
Gerin - [malte dot ressin at gmail dot com]
posted @ Fri, Apr 6, 2007 12:49:01 pm EDT from 84.163.201.251

Okay, you're right.

I was out of line, and I apologise. Sorry, the last week here at home has been very, very stressful... to say the least.

No excuse, and Gerin, if you're reading, I'd like to apologise as well.

Sorry everyone, I've been trying to exercise more restraint lately, especially when I'm already in a bad mood. This was a slip, and I'll try to do a better job holding myself in check.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"I'll tell you one thing, if the primates that we came from had known that someday politicians would come out of the gene pool, they'd've stayed up in the trees and written evolution off as a bad idea ... I always thought the opposable thumb was overrated." - Captain John Sheridan
posted @ Fri, Apr 6, 2007 12:27:15 pm EDT from 67.87.175.245

Also, it's a bit hypocritical to complain that someone is wasting Greg's time with off-topic posts... by making an off-topic post. Your comment is just one more thing Greg will have to read, and he'll probably say that it was more out of line than the post it was responding to. Greg is obviously very concerned about reeling in new fans, and I don't think he'd appreciate them being scared off by someone belittling them over their alleged poor taste.

Maybe Arlo was right. Maybe we do scare off new members.
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Fri, Apr 6, 2007 12:26:18 pm EDT from 153.9.83.136

Greg often fields questions about his opinion on unrelated things, and seems to enjoy doing it, for the most part. A flood of off-topic questions would be a problem, but this Gerin guy asked two questions total. That does not a flood make. Greg has been very open in the past to answering questions, even those that don't relate to Gargoyles or his work. There's no reason you need to flame him for submitting an opinion different from yours.
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Fri, Apr 6, 2007 12:20:44 pm EDT from 153.9.83.136

It's not that, it's just that it took years for Ask Greg's backlog to come down. But, as soon as it re-opens, the repeat questions and Off-Topic questions start flooding back in.

If the guy loves "Return of the Jedi", good for him. It's his right, and yes, I want the fandom to grow. But, should ASK GREG be flooded with questions about it? Yeah, it would be nice if there was an ASK GEORGE site out there.

Greg did ask people to question responsibly, right here:

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?rid=506

As always, it is Greg's site, he makes the rules. But, I think rambling about a movie he had nothing to do with qualifies as spam. In my personal opinion, discussion there should be about media Greg himself has actually worked on... but again, Greg's site. I think it's very gracious of him to answer every single question, even the ad nauseum repeats, when almost anyone else would have them tossed out.

Aw well.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"I'll tell you one thing, if the primates that we came from had known that someday politicians would come out of the gene pool, they'd've stayed up in the trees and written evolution off as a bad idea ... I always thought the opposable thumb was overrated." - Captain John Sheridan
posted @ Fri, Apr 6, 2007 11:50:57 am EDT from 67.87.175.245

Some people like "Star Wars". Some people like "Star Wars" and "Gargoyles". If we actually want the fandom to grow, we kind of have to accept that people who like "Gargoyles" aren't going to have the same opinions on other things.

I thought Gerin's comment was perfectly reasonable. Off topic perhaps, but we've had worse. Something I totally agree with? Not necessarily. But nothing rude or totally out of line. No "U r so stupid cuz Star Warz roolz". Your response, GXB, was rude and insulting. I think you're a smart guy, but it baffles me why you seem to get so worked up over people having opinions on movies that don't match yours. People have different tastes in movies. It's no reason to tell them to go away and that their movie watching choices are entirely sub par. Maybe I don't like some of the movies you do. It's not going to make me think you're dumb or film illiterate. We just may have different tastes.
Demonskrye
posted @ Fri, Apr 6, 2007 11:37:27 am EDT from 146.115.115.164

Ugh, what is it with the sudden influx of "Star Wars" nerds?
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"I'll tell you one thing, if the primates that we came from had known that someday politicians would come out of the gene pool, they'd've stayed up in the trees and written evolution off as a bad idea ... I always thought the opposable thumb was overrated." - Captain John Sheridan
posted @ Fri, Apr 6, 2007 11:08:56 am EDT from 67.87.175.245

HoE: I don't know why you had to change the uncyclopedia page on TGC, but I personally thought your first version of it was a lot funnier. The gag of just "writing the opposite of the truth" isn't really that interesting. I preferred the rampant exaggerations and nonsense explanations of why the damn thing was so awful.
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Fri, Apr 6, 2007 9:30:40 am EDT from 153.9.83.136

I think that if the Goliath Chronicles were to be accepted as canon, there would be no point in reviving the series - or about as much point as one of those direct-to-video sequels to Disney movies.

What still surprises me is that the proponents of making the Goliath Chronicles canon have often expressed the offer of undoing the events in that series. If all the developments in it were to get reversed, however, that would take the point out of its being canon in the first place (and, frankly, it strikes me as cheating).

Incidentally (since I believe that the story currently being done in the comic was the part-inspiration for "Genesis Undone" - at least, both contain Thailog and the Clones), one big problem with "Genesis Undone" is that Thailog and the Clones start to break down at the same time. Since Thailog was made long before the Clones were, he ought to have come down with his illness long before they did. (Unless, of course, it wasn't really some intrinsic problem in their make-up as clones but something that Sevarius secretly released to get rid of Thailog, and which took out the Clones as well as an unintended side-effect - but one which Sevarius obviously wouldn't lose any sleep over.)
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Fri, Apr 6, 2007 7:37:01 am EDT from 4.244.215.45

*Dips into the Unanswered Questions for a minute.*

Whoever this guy is, he might get a kick out of this. Reposting this link, because I think it got lost in the excitement of last week:

http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/The_goliath_chronicles

I must have a death wish for posting it again.

Greg B: I'm actually looking forward to see what Greg might have to say to Gerin. I keep reminding myself that people are entitled to opinions, but honestly: "best standoff in the history of movies"?
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"I respect the Lord in the same way I respect the Easter Bunny. I don't really think about him or Him until he/He hops up to my door with a basket of eggs."
posted @ Fri, Apr 6, 2007 6:46:01 am EDT from 71.62.204.109

Yay!! I finally got my copy of #3!! Time for a midnight review...and it's gonna be a long one!

***********SPOILERS****************

First off, the art-as a whole, it's okay. Not great, but okay. My major complaint is that the characters frequently look distorted, particularly Elisa. In the beginnig of her talk with goliath, she looks like she's aged twenty years-it reminded me of the off-model old Demona in the beginning of "Hunter's moon," and she has a huge nose when she's talking to Morgan. Not that big of a deal though. The scenes in the labyrinth look good. One little continuity gaffe I noticed: in some scenes the mutates have tails and in some they don't. So do they or don't they have tails? It's a little annoying. And Morgan's skin appears too light-he struck me as being much darker in the cartoon-more like that Cedric Harris guy's skin color. Nothing major, just some things I noticed.

On to the story. It's awesome! Obviously setting up the characters for what's to come. Goliath and Elisa's relationship is my favorite element of the series, so I'll focus most of the review on them. I've really been looking forward to Elisa and Goliath's discussion. I've always wanted to know what Greg had in mind for it. It wasn't particularly surprising-I've pretty much already figured what Elisa's argument would be, but it was nice to see it finally come to fruition.
I like Elisa's scenes with Morgan and Jason. It seems what Morgan said about not bringing Goliath to a picnic and never tallking about him is what promted her to rethink things. I mean, she'll have to hide her relationship with goliath from most people for her whole life-she'll have to appear to be single.
And Jason's line about her needing to be with a man who will give her ything she's ever wanted-I wonder if he's implying himself. I aslo wonder if he knows that Elisa's "mysterious boyfriend" is goliath...he's got to have thought of it at least.
Anyway, I really feel for elisa. She's obviously torn, and her feelings are genuine and realistic. When she was telling goliath that she wanted to be a "gargoyle-loving cop" and have a normal life with a house and kids, I thought to myself that would be impossible. A "normal" life for her went down the tubes once she became the gargoyles' friend and protector.
Something interesting to note, when I read through the discussion the second time, I thought about the second page with the Xanatos' little family moment and felt there was a connection there with Elisa and Goliath. Here's what elisa wants- a happy little "normal" family with a husband and a child. But as we all know, the Xanatos' are anything but normal and two of them aren't even fully human.

I felt really bad for Goliath throughout the issue. He's not having a good time in these comics so far. I thought he would say more while Elisa is breaking up with him-but his expressions says it all. He's not happy. I almost had to laugh when he asks delilah out-he doesn't even look her in the eye! No wonder her answer to him is so emotionless.

One thing that really interests me about whole elisa/goliath thing in the comicsis that it's not subtle anymore. In the cartoon there was this kind of wink-wink, nudge-nudge thing going on with them, but now we're getting words like "boyfriend," and "Mate" and "Husband" thrown around! Even though they're experiencing a setback, I can't help thinking it's about time! I can't wait to see them finally getting together for good. All the years of waiting will be worth it :)

whew, that was way longer than I attended. I'm tired so I'll post the rest of my thoughts on the issue tomorrow, as well as posting a review in "Ask Greg".
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn at aol dot com]
"Whoa, Tiny, you mean there's more than one of you?" "My name is not Tiny! I am Goliath!" - Elisa and Tiny
posted @ Fri, Apr 6, 2007 3:06:47 am EDT from 64.12.116.200

Holy crap thats horrible. Thanks King Cobra!
Justin - [justin dot lindley at gmail dot com]
Justin M. Lindley
posted @ Thu, Apr 5, 2007 11:02:46 pm EDT from 74.130.98.42

Justin> To answer your question, it was this Dallen817 guy/girl and his/her question can (currently) be found in the unanswered questions section.

Someone who wants TGC incorporated in the comics. Christ.

Luckily, Greg W. doesn't consider them canon either. The comics wouldn't even sell as well as they seem to be if TGC was to be included.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
"Ignore me!" - Venture Bros.
posted @ Thu, Apr 5, 2007 10:22:04 pm EDT from 69.95.28.177

I was barely able to watch tgc and ended up fast-forwarding through most of it. The characters were all wrong, the plot was too lame, etc. Salvaging tgc is a lost cause.

On the other hand, I would like to see that guy attempt to do a summary of any tgc episode *without* going bonkers over all the mischaracterizations and inaccuracies. If he doesn't have a tape, if he'd pay shaping, I'd gladly send him any of mine to let him summarize just to see the results.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Thu, Apr 5, 2007 10:12:52 pm EDT from 216.96.17.58

Who posted about TGC? I can't find it.
Justin - [justin dot lindley at gmail dot com]
Justin M. Lindley
posted @ Thu, Apr 5, 2007 10:10:12 pm EDT from 74.130.98.42

Yeah, I saw that. We did have one guy in here, last summer, I forget his name, who felt TGC should be included. He wrote a long, polite post, and he was articulate.

This guy, sad to say, has atrocious spelling and grammar. And, the "Star Wars" comparison... ugh. The minute anyone makes a comparison to "Star Wars", they lose. Simple as that.

There are many reasons why TGC would be impossible to keep, anyway. Here, I'll cite two reasons that would ruin #3.

1. We wouldn't have Thailog. I for one would not want to see the story where the Manhattan Clan goes out of their way to revive Thailog, so he can keep on trying to kill them. Goliath is an optimist, not an idiot.

2. John Castaway. If TGC is kept, he would be completely unsalvageable as a decent character. I mean, Jesus Christ, two pages, just two pages of him in #3 gave us a peek of a potentially intelligent and great villain. Something he wasn't in TGC.

There's a laundry list of other reasons, least of all the status of Gargoyle-Human relations.

He's entitled to his opinion, but... ugh.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"I'll tell you one thing, if the primates that we came from had known that someday politicians would come out of the gene pool, they'd've stayed up in the trees and written evolution off as a bad idea ... I always thought the opposable thumb was overrated." - Captain John Sheridan
posted @ Thu, Apr 5, 2007 9:39:13 pm EDT from 67.87.175.245

It finally happenned. Apparantly, a fan of TGC asked Ask Greg why tgc wasn't included in the gargoyle comics. Seriously, I thought fans of tgc were non-existent.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Thu, Apr 5, 2007 9:29:56 pm EDT from 216.96.17.58

I'm not much of one for speculating, but it'd be nice if we do get "Timedancer" when you're guessing. Not much else to add.
Asatira
posted @ Thu, Apr 5, 2007 9:10:18 pm EDT from 68.119.86.27

Dear Anthony,

Thank you for your email regarding GARGOYLES: SEASON 2, VOLUME 2. We value your interest.

We do not have any information regarding an expected DVD release for GARGOYLES: SEASON 2, VOLUME 2 in this series. We will let our Marketing Department know of your interest.

You can find a list of currently available VHS and DVD titles by visiting www.disneydvd.com

If you have any other questions or concerns, please feel free to reply to this email. You may also contact us at (800) 723-4763 (Canada: 888 877-2843), Monday 9:30-7:30 and Tuesday through Friday 9:30-6:30 CST.

Sincerely,

Walt Disney Home Entertainment Consumer Relations
Tony - [tinitinytony at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Thu, Apr 5, 2007 8:15:51 pm EDT from 71.181.159.193

Greg B: Well, that DOES explain Catholicism's desire to breed itself into a record book.

Todd: I say this every year, but I can just imagine Demona seeing a headline in the LOCAL section for an Egg Hunt, misinterpreting it, and leaving behind a very gruesome report for police to fill out. ( ;
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"I respect the Lord in the same way I respect the Easter Bunny. I don't really think about him or Him until he/He hops up to my door with a basket of eggs."
posted @ Thu, Apr 5, 2007 7:42:40 pm EDT from 71.62.204.109

I once made a couple of gargoyle easter eggs a few easters back. it's pretty easy to do a whitish egg with bluish-purple spots.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Thu, Apr 5, 2007 6:23:16 pm EDT from 24.207.163.239

TODD> Well, like many others, they would wonder what rabbits and colored eggs have to do with the Christian belief of the Jesus's ressurection. They would ask about it, only to discover every Easter Bunny is part of a Secret Society called the Hare Club for Men.

The Hare Club for Men would tell them the secret truth, St. Peter was really a rabbit, and Jesus chose him to be the first pope because men are by nature hateful and prejudiced, and rabbits are pure and innocent. Only for the Vatican to cover it up, and wage a secret war against the Hare Club For Men.

William Donahue is planning to exploit this to kill the Pope and make himself the new Pope, and he will need to be stopped.

Hey, you asked ;)
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"I'll tell you one thing, if the primates that we came from had known that someday politicians would come out of the gene pool, they'd've stayed up in the trees and written evolution off as a bad idea ... I always thought the opposable thumb was overrated." - Captain John Sheridan
posted @ Thu, Apr 5, 2007 6:22:24 pm EDT from 67.87.175.245

Wow. Finally got a hold of issue 3.

Huh. My hash key's moved. Somehow my keyboard's got switched onto US settings. Hmm.

Anyway, I posted my review on Ask Greg. The issue is all kinds of awesome.

SPOILERS!

My speculation about 32/36: some kind of magical pact to ensure the conversations that take place remain secret? A way of making sure what's said between Illuminati members stays between Illuminati members. The specific numbers may have some greater significance (I like Greg B's idea that they denote circle numbers) but I think there must be a reason for Hacker to insist on this greeting beyond mere formality.
Ed Reynolds
posted @ Thu, Apr 5, 2007 6:20:06 pm EDT from 213.187.38.72

Crazy thought: I wonder what the gargoyles would think of all the talk about Easter eggs this time of year.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Thu, Apr 5, 2007 6:16:03 pm EDT from 4.245.18.141

MATT> Two possibilities, either #8 has a scene in Japan, or partly takes place in Japan, or Vinnie leaves Manhattan in G8 and arrives in Japan in BG2.

Or, something else entirely. We have a while till these issues come out. Plenty of time to speculate.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"I'll tell you one thing, if the primates that we came from had known that someday politicians would come out of the gene pool, they'd've stayed up in the trees and written evolution off as a bad idea ... I always thought the opposable thumb was overrated." - Captain John Sheridan
posted @ Thu, Apr 5, 2007 4:57:28 pm EDT from 67.87.175.245

Greg B> You are right, I went and looked that up just now. Should've done that before I posted. And Greg said it in response to my review of all things. Oh well. I wonder why Vinnie would show up in Issue #8.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Thu, Apr 5, 2007 4:37:30 pm EDT from 24.207.163.239

Matt> Greg did say this:

"Look for Vinnie in up-coming issues (like say Garg #8 and G:BG #2."

I think it's safe to say he'll be appearing in Gargs again. Maybe a little tie-in between the two series.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"I'll tell you one thing, if the primates that we came from had known that someday politicians would come out of the gene pool, they'd've stayed up in the trees and written evolution off as a bad idea ... I always thought the opposable thumb was overrated." - Captain John Sheridan
posted @ Thu, Apr 5, 2007 4:34:53 pm EDT from 67.87.175.245

I think it'll end with Brooklyn Timedance as well, mostly because I have no idea what else it could be. Thats just the thing though. This is like trying to predict what the story will be for the season finale of Season 2 (Hunter's Moon) will be when we just got back from the World Tour. A lot can change in just a few episodes and it seems very possible that the story could be something we don't know much about. The formation of the Ultra-Pack would also support the Clan Building theme, for instance.

Anyway, I don't think we are going to see Vinnie in Gargoyles anymore. I think Greg meant he'd probably turn up in Bad Guys.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Thu, Apr 5, 2007 4:31:05 pm EDT from 24.207.163.239

Drat - Forgot my Renard . . .
Phoenician - [theoneandonlyphoenician at yahoo dot com]
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Thu, Apr 5, 2007 4:09:37 pm EDT from 157.242.198.103

I would love it if it ended up with such a climax as "Timedancer," but with the next two spinoffs tentatively planned as "Bad Guys" & "Pendragon," then the soonest a Timedancer spinoff can come out to answer questions would be around 2009-2010 . . . kinda long time for the new fans who might be wondering. (For us its no big . . . we waited 11 years!)

Unless of course the next arc WAS a Time-dancer Multi-parter . . . but taking another World Tour so soon after new stories may be a little risky for the newer fans.

Still, 'I' personally would love a Timedancer conclusion to Clan Building -- It'd be very climatic, IMO
Phoenician - [theoneandonlyphoenician at yahoo dot com]
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Thu, Apr 5, 2007 4:08:53 pm EDT from 157.242.198.103

Sorry for the double post, but I figured this was worth discussing.

Probably premature, since we're not even half-way through "Clan-Building" yet. But, yesterday, Greg posted this:

"CLAN-BUILDING
Story #1 - Issue #1 ("Nightwatch") and Issue #2 ("The Journey")
Story #2 - Issue #3 ("Invitation Only") and Issue #4 ("Masque") and Issue #5 ("Bash")
Story #3 - Issue #6 ("Reunion")
Story #4 - Issue #7 ("The Rock") and Issue #8 (TBA) and Issue #9 (TBA)
Story #5 - Issue #10 (TBA) and Issue #11 (TBA) and Issue #12 (TBA)"

Story #5 will be the close of "Clan-Building". So, how do you think it will come to a close? My personal theory is that it will end with "Timedancer". I don't base this on much, except for the title, "Clan-Building". I figure, what better way to end it than with the arrival of two new gargoyles, a new gargoyle beast and an egg?

I have no idea what Story #4 will be, save that Greg mentioned that Macbeth and Vinnie would be showing up.

Ah, speculation.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"I'll tell you one thing, if the primates that we came from had known that someday politicians would come out of the gene pool, they'd've stayed up in the trees and written evolution off as a bad idea ... I always thought the opposable thumb was overrated." - Captain John Sheridan
posted @ Thu, Apr 5, 2007 3:39:51 pm EDT from 67.87.175.245

Blis, while we're happy to have you here, this is a Comment Room, not a Chat Room.

Feel free to start or contribute to any discussions going on, but, please don't post to tell us that you have nothing to say.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"I'll tell you one thing, if the primates that we came from had known that someday politicians would come out of the gene pool, they'd've stayed up in the trees and written evolution off as a bad idea ... I always thought the opposable thumb was overrated." - Captain John Sheridan
posted @ Thu, Apr 5, 2007 2:33:02 pm EDT from 67.87.175.245

Hi.Sorry. I don't have anything to say.
Blis
posted @ Thu, Apr 5, 2007 1:55:29 pm EDT from 216.177.178.194

Makes me think about Burbank, Hudson's clone. He is the same age as the other clones and nearly the same age as Goliath (despite what TGC said, ugh). I kinda wish they would've made him without the beard.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Thu, Apr 5, 2007 10:22:34 am EDT from 24.207.163.239

Matt: That's a great theory, and one I'd never thought of.

Also, while discussing why the clones' maturation was sped-up: it's also because Xanatos didn't want to wait thirty to forty years to get a functioning gargoyle, and neither did Thailog. Greg wanted a way of making them look different than perfect copies (which I think is brilliant, since identical clones have been done to death), but he also wanted to stick closer to real science, and the fact that real clones should not come out any faster than normal children.
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Thu, Apr 5, 2007 9:45:36 am EDT from 68.58.232.2

Gargoyle Religion> As I recall, Greg has categorized the gargoyle religion as "pantheistic monotheism". So they believe in a signle deity, but one that is present in all things. (Whether that's all things living, all things natural, or all things period, remains to be seen.)
Demonskrye
posted @ Thu, Apr 5, 2007 7:59:51 am EDT from 146.115.115.164

According to Greg, gargoyles did/(do )beleive(d) in a monotheistic god (who appropriately enough, was nameless). We don't know much besides that.

Nevertheless, I do see the gargoyles being VERY in tune with the Sun and the Moon, especially for the reasons that you stated, VA.
Phoenician - [theoneandonlyphoenician at yahoo dot com]
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Thu, Apr 5, 2007 12:21:18 am EDT from 157.242.213.135

I imagine that to gargoyles, the sun would symbolically be connected with sleep, healing, vulnerability, and death. It brings rest and healing but also the threat of destruction.
The moon is the major source of light at night, so it would symbolically represent light, wakefulness, knowledge. Also it might have a significance in terms of telling time, since the months make a more useful calendar than the seasons to a nocturnal race that is not involved in agriculture.
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Wed, Apr 4, 2007 10:39:17 pm EDT from 209.162.56.94

Matt: As near as I can tell, the clones are colored the way that the real gargoyles might appear on 35mm negatives. As far as Delilah is concerned, the theory about the human DNA doing something to the color sounds pretty good. I have noticed, though, that her hair is the opposite of Elisa's, like Thailog's is the opposite of Goliath's.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Sweetie! Get mommy's bazooka!" -Harley Quinn ("Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker")
posted @ Wed, Apr 4, 2007 8:23:05 pm EDT from 71.62.204.109

Samuel> Thank you :) Keep an eye out for my next video. Its about Goliath and its completely changing the canon of the show. Trying something totally different.
Siren - [Click my name for my music videos!]
posted @ Wed, Apr 4, 2007 8:16:14 pm EDT from 68.202.76.113

Sorry for the double post.

Re-reading Greg X' comment, I feel satisfied. Hahah. The way he worded it just made it make sense. Thank you.

If we're searching for a conversation thread for this week, I propose we continue the thought that someone asked Greg about recently. How do gargoyles feel about the sun? It always struck me as odd that Hudson would say, (something like) "Aye, but it would have been nice to see the sun just once."

I feel, however, that Gargoyles could potentially (have) worship(ped) the sun and moon as deities. The moon makes a lot of obvious sense, but as gargoyles came to realise more about their biology, they probably realised that the sun, something no gargoyle had ever seen, played a significant role in their lives.

What do you guys think?
Samuel - [AnglOfHellO at AOL dot com]
"I'm gonna get what I want."
posted @ Wed, Apr 4, 2007 8:11:29 pm EDT from 68.34.86.98

Clone colouring: It's not when their eyes glow. When Thailog's eyes, which glow red as would a naturally-hatched female's, are not glowing, they are red, which is a feature unique to the male clones. I was just wondering about it. I have absolutely no qualms with it when their eyes glow the opposite colour of their gender, I just don't understand why male clones unglowing eyes are red. Does that clarify?

So. Did anyone figure out what material one would put in an Etched in Stone letter? Just comments, or would it be questions, or what?
Samuel - [AnglOfHellO at AOL dot com]
"I'm gonna get what I want."
posted @ Wed, Apr 4, 2007 8:01:15 pm EDT from 68.34.86.98

Correction: " . . . which would (bring) about A LOT of confusion."
Phoenician - [theoneandonlyphoenician at yahoo dot com]
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Wed, Apr 4, 2007 5:51:17 pm EDT from 157.242.198.103

Matt: That's how I understood it the first time I saw "Double Jeopardy" and "The Reckoning" all those years ago. The clones weren't allowed to grow naturally due to time issues, and there was a "price" to pay.

Keep in mind that this explanation, though a good one, was necessary to have, or else Greg'd be forced to have to explain why an exact replica of the Manhatten Clan looks obviously different OR he'd be forced to have clones that look exactly the same, which would A LOT of confusion.
Phoenician - [theoneandonlyphoenician at yahoo dot com]
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Wed, Apr 4, 2007 5:49:46 pm EDT from 157.242.198.103

Clones & coloration> I was thinking about it, and in an effort to get a conversation going this week, I'll share my thoughts:

1. Sevarius said that the skin and hair (and apparently eye) pigmentation was odd because of his maturity accelerater. Does that mean that if Goliath was cloned and allowed to grow naturely until the clone "hatched" from his cloning tube as a gargoyle infant that said clone would have Goliath's exact coloration? It seems to me that it would.

2. I don't think this odd coloration thing would matter much for humans. We are all more or less the same color. Different shades of tan/brown. So if Sevarius cloned Matt Bluestone, I doubt the clone would in fact come out blue or something, even if his maturity was quickened. I think this has to do largely with the fact that gargoyles probably have a lot of factors influencing their coloration. Greg has said that hormones create the different glowing eye colors, and clearly the cloning process changed that a bit, but I wonder why the clones turned out the colors they did.

3. Keeping #2 in mind, I wonder if the fact that Delilah has a skin tone very similiar to Elisa's has to do with the fact that Delilah has human DNA in her and thus isn't subject to the crazy skin tones we see in the other clones. Just a thought.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Wed, Apr 4, 2007 5:20:43 pm EDT from 24.207.163.239

DVD's: I don't know about "making a point." What I do know is that buying in bulk is typically cheaper. Many series get small, individual releases followed by box sets. For example, I'm not going to buy the Avatar: Season Two DVD's until they're released in a box set, because it'll probably be cheaper than buying them one by one, and the first season box set had a bonus disc of extras. However, that show is doing well enough with its DVD's that I'm confident said box set will be released. I can understand people's reasoning, though. When they see "Season Two, Volume One," they naturally assume that, once the rest of the season is released, there'll be box set that contains all of Season Two, and maybe some extras. If they understood that this is probably the best we're going to get, I think a lot (though not all) of those holding out would go for it.
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Wed, Apr 4, 2007 3:10:21 pm EDT from 153.9.92.35

Samuel> As far as I'm able to tell:

Male Gargoyles: Eyes glow white
Female Gargoyles: Eyes glow red.

Male Clones: Eyes are red and glow red
Female Clones(well, Delilah): Eyes are white and glow white.

I don't see why it would bother you. It's due to the artificial maturation rate. Same reason Thailog has black skin and white hair.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"I'll tell you one thing, if the primates that we came from had known that someday politicians would come out of the gene pool, they'd've stayed up in the trees and written evolution off as a bad idea ... I always thought the opposable thumb was overrated." - Captain John Sheridan
posted @ Wed, Apr 4, 2007 2:24:36 pm EDT from 67.87.175.245

Happy belated birthday, Warcrafter.

Sorry I haven't been in the room. Thank you, everyone, for the birthday wishes. :)

Siren, your video's lookin' good. I'm always impressed by your videos.

Potential SPOILERS:

The male clones, including Thailog, their eyes are red, even when not glowing. I think that's odd, because "naturally-hatched" female gargoyles' eyes aren't red when they're not glowing. It's something that bothers me. I may or may not have said it before, but what does everyone else think?
Samuel - [AnglOfHellO at AOL dot com]
"I'm going to get what I want."
posted @ Wed, Apr 4, 2007 2:20:51 pm EDT from 68.34.87.23

Matt: Maybe Thailog, despite keeping their programming simple, did infuse them with some knowledge of dramatic entrances?
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Why did Prometheus steal fire, only to give it away? Probably because he was retarded. I'd have charged out the ass for it."
posted @ Wed, Apr 4, 2007 7:22:44 am EDT from 71.62.204.109

Ozzie Arcane> Disney was being kinda nice giving us 26 episodes in one box set, since a couple companies have limited their sets to 13 episodes per set. I've been pretty mad at Disney over the whole DVDs thing, but that logic displayed by "fans" just doesn't make sense.

Coming from a fan perspective, they could have done it a full set, since they released the Spider-Man 60s Cartoon (52 episodes) in a 6 disc set. But Spider-Man had name recognition as opposed to Gargoyles, so I understand why they figured dividing would be a better move.

But I get the feeling those particular fans are more concerned with making a point, hence why they won't buy volume 1. Yeah, if they have bills to pay, or other living financial situations to deal with fine. But if they have a good load of cash, and don't have any purchasing plans then there's no reason not to get the DVD.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Wed, Apr 4, 2007 6:31:22 am EDT from 71.115.193.175

I guess I am going to buy #3 from SLG, because Amazon still doesn't have it listed.

I noticed a couple people talking about how some people wouldn't buy Season 2 vol 1 because they want the whole season at one time. All I can say is... What the heck? Gargoyles isn't the only show to have seasons split into more then one set. Disney was being kinda nice giving us 26 episodes in one box set, since a couple companies have limited their sets to 13 episodes per set. I've been pretty mad at Disney over the whole DVDs thing, but that logic displayed by "fans" just doesn't make sense.
Ozzie Arcane - [ozziearcane at wowway dot com]
"Hello Booby, this is a trap!" - Eggplant Wizard from Captain N
posted @ Wed, Apr 4, 2007 3:44:16 am EDT from 69.14.122.91

Finally got a hold of Gargoyles #3, and I have to say I'm not surprised at Elisa's 'decision'. Elisa is simply taking the realist approach to the relationship, and we'll have to wait at least a dozen issues of her mulling about her true feelings before she decides she loves Goliath, at which point Goliath will be in an equally strained relaitonship with another gargoyle, known (Delilah) or currently unknown, and then we'll have to wait ANOTHER dozen issues before he makes up HIS mind and chooses Elisa, at which point we find out some way for Elisa's familial desires, be they magic, technological or even natural, and then wait ANOTHER dozen issues for them to make a decision, at which point the series ends and moves on to the 219x spinoff.
Gantros
posted @ Wed, Apr 4, 2007 1:14:25 am EDT from 71.237.202.168

How interesting! I've been hiding from this room while waiting for my copy of #3, but since I just happened to watch "Revelations" this evening, I can answer the question:

Matt had number 13 and Mace had number 23.

The Sci-Fi channel ran two gargoyle-related films last week that I just got around to watching. Both were fairly typical in their portrayal of gargoyles as mindless, evil beasts. The second one, "Reign of the Gargoyles," featured gargoyles awakened by a magic spell and ordered to obey the Nazis in WWII. There were several scenes in which they attacked Allied airplanes - eerily reminiscent of "M.I.A."

(In that movie, the gargoyles could only be vanquished by stabbing the leader with the Spear of Destiny, conveniently located in a nearby cemetery).
Abby
"Boy, the city sure is different when it snows." "Yeah. It's colder." - "The Price"
posted @ Tue, Apr 3, 2007 11:35:34 pm EDT from 75.73.113.53

What was Mace's key number? 23? What was Matt's key number?
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Tue, Apr 3, 2007 11:10:24 pm EDT from 24.207.163.239

I was searching for reviews of gargoyles comic #3 and I found this:

http://www.silverbulletcomicbooks.com/reviews/117540068944048.htm

Interestingly enough, I found a link to Ask Greg on page 2 on a search using google.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Tue, Apr 3, 2007 10:50:13 pm EDT from 216.96.17.58

On the Illuminati numbers: If I remember correctly in "Revelations," Mace Malone called Xanatos "one of our lower-echelon members."

Seeing as he hasn't been a member for very long as Greg says, and he's not high in rank . . . your theory sounds good, Greg X.

And IF this is the case, I now wonder what Mace's "number" was.
Phoenician - [theoneandonlyphoenician at yahoo dot com]
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Tue, Apr 3, 2007 10:44:45 pm EDT from 157.242.211.138

My boyfriend is so good to me. He just reserved our room for the Gathering.

Does anyone know when the next time the registration prices go up?
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Tue, Apr 3, 2007 10:03:21 pm EDT from 24.207.163.239

I have to wonder WHY the clones' eyes were glowing at all at that moment...
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Tue, Apr 3, 2007 9:58:10 pm EDT from 24.207.163.239

<Matt Bluestone is a new member, and I'll assume Castaway is new as well. Greg said in the past that Xanatos hasn't been a member for very long either. So, those three sit in the 36th circle.

Hacker sits in the 32nd circle, so he outranks them.>

Must... resist... urge to quote "The Simpsons."

*WARNING: POSSIBLE SPOILER (I DON'T THINK SO, BUT I'LL COVER MY ASS ANYWAY)*
Speaking seriously, something I noticed on my second reading of the issue. It looks like the glowing eye color is reversed in clones. We already knew that male clones' eyes appeared to glow red, but up until this point, we'd never seen Delilah's eyes glow before. Doesn't really surprise me that they're white, it's just something I never thought about until I saw it.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Why did Prometheus steal fire, only to give it away? Probably because he was retarded. I'd have charged out the ass for it."
posted @ Tue, Apr 3, 2007 9:54:14 pm EDT from 71.62.204.109

I don't think there are any wingless members of Goliath's species unless there was some weird birth defect or the wings were cut off.

What do you want to know about eggs that don't hatch. They probably look at them like a human looks at a miscarriage, though the fact that a whole generation hatches at the same time probably helps the rookery parents emotionally.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Tue, Apr 3, 2007 9:23:25 pm EDT from 24.207.163.239

To be more specific, Justin:

Somebody asked about wingless gargoyles, and Greg said Garg-beasts are wingless. I am very specifically asking about wingless members of Goliath's species, since garg-beasts are a separate species. Different Question!

Somebody also earlier asked about eggs that don't hatch, but Greg did not answer the question. He only said "I haven't thought about it yet." So just as when he answers to somebody "I'm not telling yet, but try again some other day" there is nothing wrong with me asking.
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Tue, Apr 3, 2007 9:02:14 pm EDT from 209.162.56.94

**Comic #3 spoilers**

All of this top of the numbers 36 32 has get me thinking about putting together a semi-humorous top 10 list for the gfw about what 36 32 could be references to:

1)Mr Duval's pant size
2)location of a top secret i.s. base
3)how long it used to take to get Mr Duval to safety in the event of an emergency
4)how long it takes to contact every member of the i.s. directly below him to convene an emergency meeting
5)how many more years currently projected by the i.s. before humanity overall reaches a true golden age - elimination of world hunger, world peace, no crime, . . etc
6)the number of people who have tried to kill the highest ranking members of the i.s.
7)the year the i.s. plan on openly ruling the world

hmm. I just need a few more and to sort them out and I'll have a submission for the gfw.

**end comic #3 spoilers**

Speaking of the gfw - www.gargoyles-fans.org - does anybody plan on writing summaries for the comics for that website?

Does anybody plan on finishing writing the episode summaries soon?
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Tue, Apr 3, 2007 8:06:06 pm EDT from 216.96.17.58

>>You could have come in here or checked the archives for your most recent question to Greg. He has answered these questions a couple of times before.<<

No, I went through all the archives, I've read the Gargoyle Biology archive several times, and I read through all the unanswered questions. None of those have been asked or answered before.
Also, I have shown these questions to the Comment Room before, several months back, and Todd OK'd them for me.
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Tue, Apr 3, 2007 7:49:47 pm EDT from 209.162.56.94

BISHANSKY - Assuming, that is, that Duval's position as the leader of the Illuminati is still canon and doesn't wind up getting changed by Greg Weisman. (All that we've got confirmed in the comics itself is that he's a member of the Society.)

Of course, as I've mentioned before, if Duval's still the head of the Illuminati, then that makes the fact that he was personally calling Xanatos on the phone in issue #2, rather than having a subordinate like Hacker make the call for him, all the more significant (and ominous).
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Tue, Apr 3, 2007 7:38:08 pm EDT from 4.244.208.201

I don't know if I mentioned this in here. My theory on the Illuminati numbers. I do indeed think the numbers represent rank. I'm guessing the numbers apply to circles within in the Illuminati.

Matt Bluestone is a new member, and I'll assume Castaway is new as well. Greg said in the past that Xanatos hasn't been a member for very long either. So, those three sit in the 36th circle.

Hacker sits in the 32nd circle, so he outranks them.

If my theory is correct, #1 is obviously Mr. Duval.

Just a theory. Hopefully, we'll find out soon.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"I'll tell you one thing, if the primates that we came from had known that someday politicians would come out of the gene pool, they'd've stayed up in the trees and written evolution off as a bad idea ... I always thought the opposable thumb was overrated." - Captain John Sheridan
posted @ Tue, Apr 3, 2007 7:25:46 pm EDT from 67.87.175.245

Incidentally, I discovered that I'd misquoted Delilah in #3; what she actually said was "If that is your wish".

It's definitely a use of verbs, but I agree with Bishansky that Thailog gave her a better education than the male Clones.

I'd still like to see how their language lessons in the Labyrinth (sorry for the out-of-control alliteration) have gone, all the same.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Tue, Apr 3, 2007 7:14:39 pm EDT from 4.244.208.201

Tony> So, then what we need to do is to spread the word at other forums to tell them that as fans if they don't buy Vol 1 they aren't going to get Vol 2. And if they post at toonzone, maybe they don't know about this place.

They know. They're just to prideful to do otherwise, because they want the Complete Season Two as opposed to two separate volumes.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Tue, Apr 3, 2007 6:06:04 pm EDT from 71.115.193.175

Vaevictis Asmadi >

You could have come in here or checked the archives for your most recent question to Greg. He has answered these questions a couple of times before.

I hope the room doesnt flood like crazy again....
Justin - [justin dot lindley at gmail dot com]
Justin M. Lindley
posted @ Tue, Apr 3, 2007 5:33:27 pm EDT from 74.130.98.42

VA: Just as long as you don't post a gazillion questions one after the other, I think you'll be fine.

Todd: I'm curious about the "verb thing" as well.

On the Gathering: Tennessee is too far for me, only on account of money (I'm a first-year in college, I'm going to be short for awhile).

However, I was going through some of the old rambles, and I found one where Greg gave out a bunch of options to those who couldn't go but still wanted to participate in some way. I may not be able to afford a roundtrip to Pigeon Forge, but I do beleive I will be ordering a Gathering Shirt.

Oh, and belated Happy Birthdays to Samuel and Warcrafter!

And belated congrats, Matt!
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Tue, Apr 3, 2007 4:12:57 pm EDT from 157.242.193.10

I've been cloned! ;)

Anyway, I'm just sticking my head in to ask, how long should I wait in between asking questions, to be polite? If 75 questions have been asked after my first question, is it now time that I can ask another one without hogging Greg's time?
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Tue, Apr 3, 2007 4:03:45 pm EDT from 209.162.56.94

Lucky you. Enjoy your prolonged youth. : )
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Tue, Apr 3, 2007 2:18:07 pm EDT from 24.207.163.239

Bye
Blis
posted @ Tue, Apr 3, 2007 2:17:47 pm EDT from 216.177.178.194

It's just that years are slowing down for me:(
Blis
posted @ Tue, Apr 3, 2007 2:14:06 pm EDT from 216.177.178.194

We are blessed (or cursed) to have a moving convention, so perhaps in years to come the Gathering will be closer to you. And as you get older your location or your ability to travel will change as well.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Tue, Apr 3, 2007 2:10:56 pm EDT from 24.207.163.239

But thats just it! I can't make it unless its in San Antonio or At least Austin.
Blis
posted @ Tue, Apr 3, 2007 2:07:00 pm EDT from 216.177.178.194

Blis> While I definitely appreciate the spirit, I think 13 is a bit young to host a Gathering. But, definitely not too young for you to attend. Hope you make it some time.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"I'll tell you one thing, if the primates that we came from had known that someday politicians would come out of the gene pool, they'd've stayed up in the trees and written evolution off as a bad idea ... I always thought the opposable thumb was overrated." - Captain John Sheridan
posted @ Tue, Apr 3, 2007 1:57:35 pm EDT from 67.87.175.245

Greg> sorry I couldn't get to you as soon as possible. I am 13.
Blis
posted @ Tue, Apr 3, 2007 1:54:10 pm EDT from 216.177.178.194

"As I've read on the toonzone forums, some fans refuse to pick up Season 2 Volume 1. Reason being that they would pick up volume 1 until volume 2, you know so they can purchase the full Season Two rather than a half at a time. All that proves is that Gargoyles DVD Sets are a wasted investment (I'm refering to Disney's POV, not mine)."

So, then what we need to do is to spread the word at other forums to tell them that as fans if they don't buy Vol 1 they aren't going to get Vol 2. And if they post at toonzone, maybe they don't know about this place.

And we also need to contact Disney and inform that if they release Vol 2, it will also increase the sales of Vol 1. Right? You need to spend money to make money. They should know that.
Tony - [tinitinytony at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Tue, Apr 3, 2007 1:02:13 pm EDT from 24.238.90.155

TODD> I do believe Delilah was most likely programmed better than the other clones. While, Thailog was definitely looking for a concubine, and not an equal, for some reason, I just don't see him programming her as a slow-witted idiot like the rest.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"I'll tell you one thing, if the primates that we came from had known that someday politicians would come out of the gene pool, they'd've stayed up in the trees and written evolution off as a bad idea ... I always thought the opposable thumb was overrated." - Captain John Sheridan
posted @ Tue, Apr 3, 2007 11:05:04 am EDT from 67.87.175.245

Incidentally, I wonder how much progress Talon has made on teaching the Clones how to use verbs. I hope that we get some indication of that in #4 and #5. (We see Delilah saying "As you wish", and using "wish" as a verb, but that might have been something that Thailog taught her to say - it would fit in with the compliant attitude that he wanted for her - and so far, we haven't seen the other Clones speak yet in the comic.)
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Tue, Apr 3, 2007 7:14:25 am EDT from 4.244.212.89

I'm not talking about what Thailog believes, I'm talking about the plain facts of the matter. Even if it takes the clones themselves a little time to realize it.

Every time I see someone saying they aren't going to buy Season 2 Volume 1 until Volume 2 is available, I want to smack them upside the head. This is a lot simpler than chicken and the egg, people.

80 days left until The Gathering 2007 in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2007]
"If you don't eat yer meat, you can't have any pudding. How can you have any pudding if you don't eat yer meat?" - Pink Floyd
posted @ Tue, Apr 3, 2007 7:11:34 am EDT from 70.229.194.36

As I've read on the toonzone forums, some fans refuse to pick up Season 2 Volume 1. Reason being that they would pick up volume 1 until volume 2, you know so they can purchase the full Season Two rather than a half at a time. All that proves is that Gargoyles DVD Sets are a wasted investment (I'm refering to Disney's POV, not mine).

Strikes me as kind of petty. I mean the reason why all of the episodes of Batman The Animated Series is on DVD is because the fandom did the smart thing. Putting their egos on hold and working to get BTAS. After all, Volume 1 didn't have more than 27 episodes (Season 1 being 65 episodes long).

Makes me understand Greg's point a little more. Sure, Disney didn't do the best they could advertising the set, but some of the fandom could have done better as well.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Tue, Apr 3, 2007 3:05:55 am EDT from 71.115.193.175

Obviously, the "Tell 1000 People" campaign suggested by Greg Weisman is not working because there is still no news of Season 2 Vol 2 to be released and it's been 9 months since he suggested the campaign. Christ, Season 2 Vol 1 came out back in 2005, I want Season 2 Vol 2 on DVD!!!

It was suggested that I should write Buena Vista. Does anyone have their mailing address or another suggestion on whom I should write? Thank you for your time.
Tony - [tinitinytony at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Tue, Apr 3, 2007 1:38:08 am EDT from 24.238.90.155

Happy birthday, Warcrafter. Wish the news could be better; hopefully the day will get better.
Asatira
posted @ Tue, Apr 3, 2007 1:32:01 am EDT from 68.190.58.63

Warcrafter>

Where in IN? I live in IN, so just curious?
Justin - [justin dot lindley at gmail dot com]
Justin M. Lindley
posted @ Tue, Apr 3, 2007 1:06:17 am EDT from 74.130.98.42

Woohoo! I found a couple copies of issue 3 at comic store #4 (of 5 that I know of around here). They actually had several of all three issues. Too bad the comic book format is my least favorite type of media.
Johann Gambolputty de von Ausfern-Schplenden-Schlitter-Crasscrenbon-Fried-Digger-Dingle-Dangle-Dongle-Dungle-Bursten-von-Knacker-Thrasher-Apple-Banger-Horowitz-Ticolensic-Grander-Knotty-Spelltinkle-Grandlich-Grumblemeyer-Spelterwasser-Kurstlich-Himbleeisen-Bahnwagen-Gutenabend-Bitte-Ein-Nurnburger-Bratwustle-Gerspurten-Mitz-Weimache-Luber-Hundsfut-Gumberaber-Shonendanker-Kalbsfleisch-Mittler-Aucher von Hautkopft of Ulm
posted @ Tue, Apr 3, 2007 12:34:31 am EDT from 63.20.94.180

Yay, it is now my birthday. And would you believe that the first bit of news I hear is that my two year old half sister (that I barely get to see) is moving to Indiana in the summer. What a way to begin a birthday :(
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1 at sbcglobal dot net]
Humans are such easy prey for a gargoyle!........oh, and my new gamertag on xbox live for 360 is "I am Goliath"
posted @ Tue, Apr 3, 2007 12:14:22 am EDT from 69.231.201.80

And that being the case, he may see Talon as stealing his property... and also, is Fang still down in the Labyrinth after being recaptured in "The Reckoning"? We didn't see him down there in "Invitation Only", but I assume he must be. Wonder if he'll show up in "Gargoyles" again before we see him in "Bad Guys".
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Mon, Apr 2, 2007 11:31:18 pm EDT from 24.207.163.239

"Of course, they are a bit primitive. I kept their programming simple, obey Thailog. It's all they really need to know."
"I combined your DNA with that of the human, Elisa Maza, to create, Delilah. She is the perfect programmed companion. Obedient, and lovely. She'll do anything for me."

Yeah, I think that sums up how Thailog sees the clones. In his mind, they are not his clan, they are his property. Is he in for a rude awakening? We will see.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"I'll tell you one thing, if the primates that we came from had known that someday politicians would come out of the gene pool, they'd've stayed up in the trees and written evolution off as a bad idea ... I always thought the opposable thumb was overrated." - Captain John Sheridan
posted @ Mon, Apr 2, 2007 11:16:30 pm EDT from 67.87.175.245

Thanks everybody!

Patrick> I don't think Thailog is going to see it that way. To him, they DO belong to him. And since it has been such a short time since their creation, I doubt Talon's teachings have done much to change the "Obey Thailog" programming of the Clones. I think it is likely that they are going to come with him if he orders them to. We saw a hint of this with Delilah when she said to Goliath "As you wish." I think Delilah an the Clones might see Goliath as a quasi-Thailog, which of course, he is.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Mon, Apr 2, 2007 11:09:11 pm EDT from 24.207.163.239

Thailog doesn't own the other clones any more than Xanatos owns Thailog. I think he may be in for a rude awakening if Delilah takes after her mothers, so I hope he wore a cup.

81 days left until The Gathering 2007 in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2007]
"They are not the hell your whales." - Spock, "Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home"
posted @ Mon, Apr 2, 2007 10:47:05 pm EDT from 70.229.194.36

Congrats, Matt! Sounds great!
Asatira
posted @ Mon, Apr 2, 2007 9:22:54 pm EDT from 68.190.58.63

Congrats Matt!

I think in all the hubbub for the new comic, my new video got buried :P So I am reposting it this week.

When I first heard this song I thought instantly about "Vows". That was about 4 months ago, since then I've worked on and off this one.

It pretty well sticks to Vows plot, but throws some City of Stone, Hunter's Moon, etc into it. Future Demona goes to show Past Demona what the humans did to her. Of course she doesn't see that SHE is respondsible for it. But Past Demona is horrified with what she sees for her future. Demona shows her the massacre, her betrayl of Goliath on Awakenings, her destruction of stone humans on City of Stone, and her attempted murder on Goliath and Hudson in Long Way Till Morning. Future Demona thinks she is doing herself a favor, but it only proves to make her past self realize what unspeakable horrors await and what she will cause one day.

I also thought the beginning actually sounds like the Phoenix Gate in use, lol
Click my name or copy and paste: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urwyHyEjc1k
Enjoy!
Siren - [Conversations With My 13 Year Old Self (New Demona Video)]
posted @ Mon, Apr 2, 2007 8:30:43 pm EDT from 68.202.76.113

Congratulations, Matt.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Mon, Apr 2, 2007 7:13:47 pm EDT from 4.245.17.117

Matt> Congrats. :)
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
"Ignore me!" - Venture Bros.
posted @ Mon, Apr 2, 2007 6:31:34 pm EDT from 69.95.91.132

WooHoo! It has been a good week. Today I was offered (and accepted) a new job working at the St Louis Science Center. I've been trying to get in there for months and months. I start next week!
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Mon, Apr 2, 2007 5:06:42 pm EDT from 24.207.163.239

*Eats fish food* Thanks! ;)

Happy Passover!... to some of you :)
Purplegoldfish - [skdyragonn at aol dot com]
posted @ Mon, Apr 2, 2007 4:57:49 pm EDT from 152.163.101.9

Greg Bishansky>I'd love one year to host a gathering back in Ca but this time in the san diego area. Haha though Ive never run a con so I'd probally just be a mad monkey on the staff ;-P
Shara
posted @ Mon, Apr 2, 2007 3:28:11 pm EDT from 4.245.116.100

Blis> This year's Gathering of the Gargoyles is being hosted.... in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee by Y2Hecate and her staff.

Next year's is up for grabs. How old are you?
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"I'll tell you one thing, if the primates that we came from had known that someday politicians would come out of the gene pool, they'd've stayed up in the trees and written evolution off as a bad idea ... I always thought the opposable thumb was overrated." - Captain John Sheridan
posted @ Mon, Apr 2, 2007 2:33:35 pm EDT from 67.87.175.245

Is anyone going to try to host this years Gathering of the Gargoyles? I REALLY REALLY WANT TO.
Blis
posted @ Mon, Apr 2, 2007 1:58:08 pm EDT from 216.177.178.194

MATT> I'd say that Thailog is there for all the Clones. He spent a considerable amount of time and money creating them, afterall. They are his.

As for how he figured out they were living in the Labyrinth. There were really only two possibilities. Where ever the Manhattan Clan is (Clock Tower or Castle) or, the Labyrinth. He's been lying low, had time to check things out.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"I'll tell you one thing, if the primates that we came from had known that someday politicians would come out of the gene pool, they'd've stayed up in the trees and written evolution off as a bad idea ... I always thought the opposable thumb was overrated." - Captain John Sheridan
posted @ Mon, Apr 2, 2007 12:38:25 pm EDT from 67.87.175.245

I wonder how Thailog discovered the Clones made a new home in the Labyrinth. Deductive reasoning, I guess. I also wonder if Thailog is after ALL the Clones, or just Delilah.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Mon, Apr 2, 2007 8:37:20 am EDT from 24.207.163.239

(Possible Mild Spoilers, but really only if you don't read anything future story related on "Ask Greg")

Random Thought> OK, so we know that Elisa and Goliath are going to get back together. We'd probably be pretty sure of that even if Greg hadn't said as much. Way way back sometime, Greg answered a question about how Elisa's family was going to react to her relationship with Goliath. As I recall, he said the family would mostly be cool with it, but Derek would take issue. Now this was a long time ago and it's not fully canon until it's in the comic. But assuming it's still true, I think could lead to some interesting concepts being explored. Though I know Goliath and Derek didn't exactly start things off on the right foot, but I'm assuming that Derek's problem has more to do with the fact that Goliath is not the same species as his sister, Which is, when you think about it, a perfectly valid point for someone to make, What I think could be really interesting is what this might reveal about Derek's relationship with Maggie, If Derek starts criticizing Elisa's relationship with Goliath, it could bring up some rather uncomfortable questions for her. "Do you really love me for who I am? Or is it like the way Brooklyn felt; that you love me because I look like you look now? If I was mutated and you weren't, would we still be together?" I'm guessing that there is something deeper to their relationship if they're going to stay together long term. Being physically similar and going through the sam traumativ experience can help people relate to each other, but it would be interesting to see what keeps them together aside from Maggie being the only female mutate.

Oh, and happy respective birthdays, Samuel and Warcrafter (early in case I forget)!
Demonskrye
posted @ Mon, Apr 2, 2007 7:38:46 am EDT from 146.115.115.164

* POSSIBLE SPOILERS FOLLOW *

Something that I've thought of about Goliath's upcoming date with Delilah (begun in #3 and to be continued in #4 and #5). Obviously it's going to be headed for trouble, since once Thailog finds out that Delilah had left the Labyrinth with Goliath before he arrived, he'll be going after them next to get her back and complete the set (I think that it's clear already that the reason why he showed up there was to retrieve the Clones). So we can tell that there's going to be trouble for them right away.

But I'm also foreseeing trouble for Goliath of a different sort - and I hope that we get to see it in the date even before Thailog shows up. After his break-up with Elisa, going out with anyone else is going to be difficult for our hero. But Delilah (while the only available gargoyle in town) is the worst possible case, thanks to her being a part-clone of Elisa (to the point where they even share Salli Richardson as a voice actress). She's going to be constantly reminding Goliath, merely by who she is and how she sounds, of whom he'd truly given his heart to.

I hope that we get to see that in #4; it'd make too great drama not to get in.

* SPOILERISH ELEMENTS END *
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Mon, Apr 2, 2007 7:09:27 am EDT from 4.244.209.96

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