sorry, I accidentally typed Katana in the mix.. I didn't change it because I didn't wan't to triple post.

anywho, speaking of the Autumn Equinox..

http://ritam.deviantart.com/art/Autumn-in-Central-Park-7278565

in this version Brook gets back a little early. but at least he has Katana now :) Katana's slightly younger than Brook in this version too.

another Family pic by Valaheri
http://valaheri.deviantart.com/art/gargoyles-fanart-46655113

and another by Opeiastea
http://opeiastea.deviantart.com/art/Timedancer-Family-14472002
too bad the ages of the kids are wrong but oh well..

I bet Lex will feel the same angst when Brook comes back his family ;)
Starlioness
posted @ Sun, Sep 23, 2007 11:57:27 pm EDT from 67.171.38.50

The only heart Brooklyn breaks is his own. Though I wouldn't say that a dissapointed crush necessarily is heartbreak, dispite what it may feel like to Brooklyn who probably fears there are no other females left in the world!
Vaevictis Asmadi
"We're not the last. We're not alone." - Hudson
posted @ Sun, Sep 23, 2007 11:18:47 pm EDT from 71.34.43.213

"...if Delilah 2198 and Samson have children. then Goliath,Elisa,Broadway,Demona,Angela,Brooklyn,Katana,Delilah (the original),Hudson,and Malibu will all have their DNA in them! whew!"

I get what you are saying about Delilah and Malibu (and I think it's headed that way as well), but why would Katana's DNA be in Delilah (2198) or Samson? I mean, it's possible, but not definite.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'
posted @ Sun, Sep 23, 2007 10:31:54 pm EDT from 24.207.163.239

Mazel Tov to Broadway and Angela!

Starlioness> knowing Brooklyn, probably a few. The little heart breaker. :p It makes me wonder though how far Brooklyn is going to go with being jealous, he has been burned what is it, three times already? I'm sure his patience(and hormones) must be reaching their limits.
kitsuneopal - [superducknts at netscape dot net]
posted @ Sun, Sep 23, 2007 9:00:28 pm EDT from 65.189.220.156

quick double post..

*spoilers*
if Delilah and Malibu have children. then Brook's DNA would also be in Delilah 2198. and if Delilah 2198 and Samson have children. then Goliath,Elisa,Broadway,Demona,Angela,Brooklyn,Katana,Delilah (the original),Hudson,and Malibu will all have their DNA in them! whew!

I also wonder how many potential mates Brooklyn will have before he meets Katana :)
Starlioness
posted @ Sun, Sep 23, 2007 7:54:41 pm EDT from 67.171.38.50

oh great,now this thing works :p

in the Clan's Children pic the two green gargoyles are Fulton and Leaver(the one with the hair) Lex's fanfic kids. both are boys and the Blue Gargoyle is Samson (I know he should be Lance but.. oh well,)

and the Broadway and Angela's children pic the blue one is Samson.
Starlioness
posted @ Sun, Sep 23, 2007 7:46:17 pm EDT from 67.171.38.50

So artus is conceived tonight, according to Greg. Cool. I wonder he didn't mention Brooklyn and Katana's third child being conceived. I hope they do have three kids

HoE: I live in Bethel. Rt. seven is finished :D
Purplegoldfish - [Skydragonn at aol dot com]
posted @ Sun, Sep 23, 2007 7:37:19 pm EDT from 69.183.71.109

are lions still eating the server?
Starlioness
posted @ Sun, Sep 23, 2007 6:53:39 pm EDT from 67.171.38.50

Oh yes, I like the second picture better! Not only do I like the style more, but it does depict their ages better. They are biological siblings, but not rookery siblings, so their ages would be far apart.

But Lancelot still looks silly. I don't think gargoyles should wear blue jeans, it just looks off.
Vaevictis Asmadi
"For every complex problem, there is a solution which is simple, easy, and wrong."
posted @ Sun, Sep 23, 2007 4:27:32 pm EDT from 209.162.56.40

I can guess at the five in the middle for you, but I have no idea who the two little green ones are since I know nothing about non-canon characters. The five in the middle are Artus, Tachi, Gwenyvere (top row), and Lancelot and Nashville in the bottom row.

By the way I found the other pic I was looking for, the artist for the group photo pic actually posts a link to it below the picture. It just shows the three offspring of Angela/Broadway, but I like it a ton because their ages look right. They look to be about 70, 50, and 30, which places that pic at about 2088.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'
posted @ Sun, Sep 23, 2007 3:36:45 pm EDT from 24.207.163.239

Can someone be so kind to post which Gargoyle in that posted picture is which? Like I'm guessing the white one is related to Brooklyn, but I'm not sure what his name is. So if someone can post the name and the color, that would help alot. Thanks.
TiniTinyTony - [tinitinytony hotmail dot com]
posted @ Sun, Sep 23, 2007 3:27:48 pm EDT from 64.178.112.153

It really is a fun picture. I've always liked it. I esspecially have always liked how Artus was drawn, even more in the other pic I can't find that just has Angela and Broadway's kids.

Of course, the picture is far removed from canon and even canon-in-training. There is no known counterpart for the two young gargs on the far left and right and as for the five in the middle, they are canon characters, but the ages are all off. Nashville will be far older than the rest, in fact, he'll be old enough to be a rookery father to Gwenyvere and Lancelot. Tachi will be old enough to be Lance's rookery mother. By the time Artus is the age the Trio was in "Awakening", Lance won't have hatched yet, Tachi will be as old as Demona was and Nash will be a generation older! Obviously, a picture showing all these characters together as children isn't possible.

I am excited to learn about all of their rookery brothers and sisters, assuming they have any. I doubt Tachi will, maybe Artus might.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'
posted @ Sun, Sep 23, 2007 2:59:41 pm EDT from 24.207.163.239

That is a fun picture! Though I can't picture how Lexington would end up with kids.
Vaevictis Asmadi
"For every complex problem, there is a solution which is simple, easy, and wrong."
posted @ Sun, Sep 23, 2007 2:50:26 pm EDT from 209.162.56.40

here you go Matt :)

http://ritam.deviantart.com/art/Clan-s-Children-7504693

I know there's another one by Mommyspike but I don't have time now :p
Starlioness
posted @ Sun, Sep 23, 2007 1:23:18 pm EDT from 67.171.38.50

Sorry for the double post, does anyone remember where the two pieces of art on Deviantart showing Artus and the other children of the Mnahattan Clan are? I couldn't find these pics... but I remember they were cool.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'
posted @ Sun, Sep 23, 2007 1:10:58 pm EDT from 24.207.163.239

Yeah, I'm sure it's a private matter. I doubt Dr. Sato or anyone else is involved. In fact, with gargoyle culture in mind, I doubt Angela and Broadway even need to tell the rest of the Clan. They probably simply assume she is pregnant given the cycle and having a chosen mate.

Isn't this crazy guys? It's like Greg revealed Artus years ago, we had all these future events in our minds and here we finally get to one and the fandom is doing great. Who knows, will we still be commenting when Gwen is conceived or Lance or even Samson?! Way fun.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'
posted @ Sun, Sep 23, 2007 1:06:05 pm EDT from 24.207.163.239

The evening after...

Broadway: "Dr. Sato says it's a just a test to confirm."
Angela: "I have to take this little stick and do WHAT?"

278 days left until The Gathering 2008 in Chicago, Illinois!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Sun, Sep 23, 2007 1:03:33 pm EDT from 76.241.156.163

Go Angela and Broadway!

I think that considering that gargoyles only concieve every 20 years, that they probably can feel it when they're extra horny and can tell that they ovulated. And since eggs are always laid on the spring equinox and pregnancy must become apparent sometime before that (though gargoyles wouldn't menstruate) I think they can probably guess about when conception happens.

I don't know if a pregnancy test designed to detect human biochemicals would be accurate for gargoyles, though.
Vaevictis Asmadi
"For every complex problem, there is a solution which is simple, easy, and wrong."
posted @ Sun, Sep 23, 2007 12:29:01 pm EDT from 209.162.56.40

Considering how rarely gargoyles ovulate, I wouldn't be surprised if there's some sort of biochemical shift that lets them instinctively know.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Shut your noise-hole, taco human!" -Invader Zim
posted @ Sun, Sep 23, 2007 12:20:02 pm EDT from 71.62.204.109

Congrats Daddy Broadway and Mommy Angela!

Question? Who gives the news to Angela that she is pregnant? Is it Dr. Sato? Is it a pregnancy test that Elisa picks up for her at Walmart? Or does she just know she is with child? And does the embryo turn to stone during the day?
TiniTinyTony - [tinitinytony hotmail com]
"What you're passionate about, from a cartoon standpoint, has to do with what age you were when you very first saw it." ~Greg Weisman
posted @ Sun, Sep 23, 2007 12:09:44 pm EDT from 71.181.165.245

Hell I've not bought any of the comics yet simply because I's a poor college student but I have been spreading the word all over campus and where ever else I can. I'm constantly wearing one of my many garg shirts which almost always start up conversations about it so I can spread the word. I's a good little acolyte. *grins*
Ethan Gilchrist - [ethan at randominformation dot com]
"I wouldn't wanna live in a world without grudges." --Jack Terricloth of the World Inferno Friendship Society
posted @ Sun, Sep 23, 2007 12:07:48 pm EDT from 66.56.6.148

I'm guessing the reason one would buy two issues of the comic is that some people like to have one issue to read, and one issue to bag and stick in the closet. At least, that's my reason for buying two.

Moshi: Make yourself at home. I'd offer a drink, but it's too early.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Shut your noise-hole, taco human!" -Invader Zim
posted @ Sun, Sep 23, 2007 9:59:47 am EDT from 71.62.204.109

*Reads TDIGUH...*

Nevermind, it was this morning, or possibly tonight.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'
posted @ Sun, Sep 23, 2007 9:49:53 am EDT from 24.207.163.239

Well, in New York time, the Fall Equinox just went by early this morning, so I guess in the Gargoyles Universe Angela is now pregnant. Go Broadway. Although Greg has said there is a window for such things, like a night or two before and after.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'
posted @ Sun, Sep 23, 2007 9:48:54 am EDT from 24.207.163.239

He was just suggesting that the ones who could should purchased copies of the comic or the DVD and not borrow it from a friend. Or the one who could should purchase more than a copy. I dont think it would be the solution and the ones that can are already doing it, but well.
Demon@
posted @ Sun, Sep 23, 2007 9:43:36 am EDT from 190.17.240.208

So you're saying the best way to support the comic (if we want to) is to buy more copies of the various products?

Just to be clear.
Aldrius
posted @ Sun, Sep 23, 2007 1:26:59 am EDT from 207.112.58.49

Sorry.

I wasn't criticizing ANYONE for not buying multiple copies of the comic. We all do what we can.

But I think fans should help SUPPORT the fandom.

Putting out flyers is great! Spreading the word is great! Buying the DVDs and comics is great! The more that sells, the better the numbers.

I don't expect a mother to buy six copies of the comic for her six kids. But if two roomates share an apartment, I think they each could buy a copy if they were both fans.

I realize some of you out there couldn't even get ONE issue of the comic for various reasons.

I said it before: i don't expect everyone to go out and by two copies of each issue like I do.

That's not what I ment at all.
Battle Beast - [wlukinuk at telus dot net]
Lee Harvey Oswald? LIke Bull. Watch JFK AND THEN proove to me that there WASN'T a second gunman. You CAN'T.
posted @ Sat, Sep 22, 2007 9:29:55 pm EDT from 142.59.132.201

Demonskrye> THE MORE copies of the comic that sell, the MORE DVDs that sell, the BETTER the numbers look.

if 500 Fans buy 500 copies of issue #6, for example, that's great. But if EACH of theose same 500 fans buy TWO copies, that EVEN BETTER.

The more issues/DVDs that sell, the BETTER the numbers look to suits high above us.
Battle Beast - [wlukinuk at telus dot net]
Lee Harvey Oswald? LIke Bull. Watch JFK AND THEN proove to me that there WASN'T a second gunman. You CAN'T.
posted @ Sat, Sep 22, 2007 9:22:22 pm EDT from 142.59.132.201

Welcome, Mochi!
Asatira
posted @ Sat, Sep 22, 2007 4:47:34 pm EDT from 24.181.112.130

Welcome Moshi *shots lazer gun* Muahehehehe
Demon@
posted @ Sat, Sep 22, 2007 4:19:16 pm EDT from 190.2.14.74

Great news about the comic.

Heh. And just 4 days before my 25th b-day too.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Thirty-Six. Nine.
posted @ Sat, Sep 22, 2007 2:13:16 pm EDT from 75.42.211.139

Welcome to the One known as Mochi!

Glad to see Greg has given us notice about the comic and that we have a confirmed date. Also glad we are going to be back on a every month comic schedule.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'
posted @ Sat, Sep 22, 2007 1:25:45 pm EDT from 24.207.163.239

Welcome to the room Mochi. *Offers cookie tray*
Wingless
posted @ Sat, Sep 22, 2007 11:34:30 am EDT from 74.115.187.62

Welcome, Mochi.:)
Vaevictis Asmadi
"We're not the last. We're not alone." - Hudson
posted @ Sat, Sep 22, 2007 10:32:28 am EDT from 71.34.62.122

Mochi> Welcome! Always good to see new faces. ^_^
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth_dragon at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Sat, Sep 22, 2007 9:41:06 am EDT from 24.98.74.35

Well, Greg's confirmed it. Release date is October 10.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Sat, Sep 22, 2007 7:34:36 am EDT from 4.244.210.72

Let me start by saying this is my first comment here! I was fortunate enough to meet Greg and Dave Hedgecock (hopefully that's the right name) at Comic-Con here in San Diego earlier this summer. It was the first time I had heard that Gargoyles was being published as a comic book. I bought all five issues that were available, had them signed, and got a sketch of Goliath from Hedgecock. About two months have past since the convention and I've read all five issues so far. It's almost like watching the TV series all over again... I look forward to reading the continuation of the story that I've waited 11 years for! I also look forward to browsing this site and (though it's a long shot) attending the Gathering in 2008.
The One Known As Mochi - [rolandsteinert at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Sat, Sep 22, 2007 4:06:18 am EDT from 72.199.226.114

kitsuneopal> Same here.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Thirty-Six. Nine.
posted @ Sat, Sep 22, 2007 2:14:27 am EDT from 75.42.211.139

Todd - As I said on Thursday, the key point for guaranteeing issue #7 coming out in November is that it's sent to Disney by the end of this month.

With issue #6 coming out the 10th, I wonder if Bad Guys really will come out this month. There's only 3 weeks left in October for it to come out.

Audra - <how did you find out on SLG's site when the the 6th comic is coming out? Every time I click on "Upcoming Stuff" on their site, I never see anything Gargoyles> I'm not Vicky, but try visiting www.slgcomic.com/info-exec/display/shipping . You get there by clicking on Release Schedule.

Vaevictis Asmadi - <I'm still angry about the delay.> Before the blame game is played, I would like to have a few more facts, the biggest one being when did Disney get issue #6 for final approval. If Disney received issue #6 on August 15 (or afterwards), then I'm not too upset with Disney. That meant it took Disney a little over a month (or less) to approve the comic.

Cutting the approval time from Disney isn't an issue to me; the issue is if we know it takes a month to get an issue approved by Disney, then why send it to Disney 15 days before the month that we expect it to be released.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Fri, Sep 21, 2007 10:27:26 pm EDT from 71.30.132.136

I looked on SLG and it does say Bad Guys is scheduled for October, though there's no date. I sure hope at least that comes on time.
Vaevictis Asmadi
"We're not the last. We're not alone." - Hudson
posted @ Fri, Sep 21, 2007 10:19:32 pm EDT from 71.34.63.85

comic> Not the best news, but at least there is a confirmed date now. All that uncertainty made me a bit nervous.
kitsuneopal - [superducknts at netscape dot net]
posted @ Fri, Sep 21, 2007 10:13:24 pm EDT from 65.189.220.156

Ethan >> I can't open those URLs. :(

Comic >> At least we have a date. I'm still angry about the delay. And this spoils all the plans of putting Bad Guys out in the in-between months. I hope that Bad Guys comes out in late October and again in December, that is the only way of keeping the original plan.

Sales >> I think that it is quite unfair to criticise people for not buying multiple copies of the comic.
Vaevictis Asmadi
"We're not the last. We're not alone." - Hudson
posted @ Fri, Sep 21, 2007 9:08:19 pm EDT from 63.225.151.65

Harvestor "They were actually testing the waters with Season One. I think that's why they were released a year apart."

I might agree with you if they didn't do it with ALL their TV show box sets. It's grating my nerves with the Tick and Darkwing Duck right now. I'm not getting any younger. I shouldn't have to wait 4 years for a entire series to be put on DVD when the show ended back in the 90s.
Ozzie Arcane - [ozziearcane at yahoo dot com]
"Hello Booby! This is a trap!" - Eggplant Wizard
posted @ Fri, Sep 21, 2007 8:41:21 pm EDT from 69.14.122.91

I just saw it on amazon's web page, but there was no date, just coming soon.
kitsuneopal - [superducknts at netscape dot net]
posted @ Fri, Sep 21, 2007 8:09:33 pm EDT from 65.189.220.156

Vicky82, how did you find out on SLG's site when the the 6th comic is coming out? Every time I click on "Upcoming Stuff" on their site, I never see anything Gargoyles... Even now I just checked and didn't see anything about the 6th comic.
Audra - [birdygirl85 at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Fri, Sep 21, 2007 7:55:39 pm EDT from 71.36.206.135

Well, at least we know now how long we'll have to wait. I hope that the release date for #7 stays in November.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Fri, Sep 21, 2007 6:25:18 pm EDT from 4.244.211.242

Yea, the release date for #6 is known. One question, why the 10th not the 3rd? Of course, it's nice to see #7 scheduled for November.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Fri, Sep 21, 2007 5:56:05 pm EDT from 75.88.21.122

October 10th? I'm flying to L.A. on the 11th. Guess I'll have something to read on the plane. :)

"Well it was only, Goliath, Angela and Elisa and Goliath was fighting Triple H which started by Triple H hitting Angela with a ladder." -- I guess the H stands for Hunter.

280 days left until The Gathering 2008 in Chicago, Illinois!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"Don't rush me, sonny. You rush a miracle man, you get rotten miracles." - Max, "The Princess Bride"
posted @ Fri, Sep 21, 2007 5:44:27 pm EDT from 76.241.156.163

If you're a Garg fan in the Dallas, you might want to drop by FenCon <http://fencon.org> this weekend. Steve Perry, who wrote "Enter Macbeth" and "Eye of the Beholder", is the one of the guests and he's doing a panel on "Writing for Animation" on Saturday.

And yes, I put out a stack of Gathering 2008 flyers on the promo table.
Spike
Check out my art in the art show!
posted @ Fri, Sep 21, 2007 4:06:35 pm EDT from 75.17.230.53

I had a very stupid dream about gargoyles too. Me and my family where in the kitchen and my brother was bathing in the sink And someone else, I dont remember whom, entered and asked why we were all there And we said we coudnt go to the bathroom because there was a gargoyle locked up and we were to scared to go. XD
Demon@
posted @ Fri, Sep 21, 2007 4:03:00 pm EDT from 190.2.34.69

Good News everyone SLG updated there site and Gargoyles 6 is out on the 10th of October. It doesn't say when Bad Guys 1 is out but still says October. It also says November release for Gargoyles 7
Vicky82 - [Vickyfanofwwe at aol dot com]
posted @ Fri, Sep 21, 2007 3:54:55 pm EDT from 195.93.21.4

Battle Beast> I'm not sure I understand your numbers. How exactly have you determined that there are a thousand households that bought the "Gargoyles" comic and that each of these households has three additional fans in it who would have bought the comic on their own were they not living with someone who bought it and let them read it? I still fail to see how criticizing fans who read a family member's copy instead of buying one for themselves helps "Gargoyles" or the fandom.
Demonskrye
posted @ Fri, Sep 21, 2007 2:19:44 pm EDT from 209.6.249.41

Battle Beast> I think the point was the delivery method. If we push too hard, people won't respond by buying, they'll resent us and turn away, virtually guaranteeing that they *won't* buy. Which isn't our goal at all.
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [kth dot dragon at gmail dot com]
posted @ Fri, Sep 21, 2007 2:05:50 pm EDT from 199.38.51.134

I had a strange dream about Gargoyles a few months ago, they were in the WWE (World Wrestling Entertainment). Well it was only, Goliath, Angela and Elisa and Goliath was fighting Triple H which started by Triple H hitting Angela with a ladder. can't remember who won or what Elisa was doing.
Vicky82 - [Vickyfanofwwe at aol dot com]
posted @ Fri, Sep 21, 2007 1:13:36 pm EDT from 195.93.21.4

"The few extra copies we'd get from that aren't going to make a difference...." OF COURSE they make a difference. IF you multiply those few extra copies by 1000 households, you'd get 3,000 extra cpoies sold. Thats a BIG difference.

We have to sell EVERYTHING we can. So friends the DVDs. Just spread the word.
Battle Beast - [wlukinuk at telus dot net]
Lee Harvey Oswald? LIke Bull. Watch JFK AND THEN proove to me that there WASN'T a second gunman. You CAN'T.
posted @ Fri, Sep 21, 2007 12:23:33 pm EDT from 142.59.132.201

It helps to actually paste the link. *facepalm*

http://headtripcomics.comicgenesis.com/
Ethan Gilchrist - [ethan at randominformation dot com]
"I wouldn't wanna live in a world without grudges." --Jack Terricloth of the World Inferno Friendship Society
posted @ Fri, Sep 21, 2007 11:49:29 am EDT from 66.56.6.148

One more from the same comic, again garg related.
Ethan Gilchrist - [ethan at randominformation dot com]
"I wouldn't wanna live in a world without grudges." --Jack Terricloth of the World Inferno Friendship Society
posted @ Fri, Sep 21, 2007 11:48:44 am EDT from 66.56.6.148

Ethan> LOL

I had a Gargoyles dream once. Not *that* kind of dream, but I did get turned into a garg during the course of it. And even though nothing happened, my liking for Brooklyn in real life made me go all tongue-tied and embarrassed around him in the dream, which was frustrating. I don't like having self-esteem issues while I'm asleep and supposedly relaxing. ;P
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [kth dot dragon at gmail dot com]
posted @ Fri, Sep 21, 2007 11:34:57 am EDT from 199.38.51.134

Sorry to break the line of thought but this was too funny not to share...

http://headtripcomics.comicgenesis.com/d/20060728.html

Goliath sighting! =D
Ethan Gilchrist - [ethan at randominformation dot com]
"I wouldn't wanna live in a world without grudges." --Jack Terricloth of the World Inferno Friendship Society
posted @ Fri, Sep 21, 2007 11:19:54 am EDT from 66.56.6.148

Demon@> I'm not sure if they could grow while they sleep... It depends on whether the stone leaves enough space around each cell to make room for growth (which could be possible).

Vaevictis> Hrm. That is a problem. Maybe in that respect their surface area to volume ratio works in their favor. The wings in particular would be great for shunting heat away from the body, especially on a windy day. I guess part of it depends on how heat conductive the stone is. What gains heat easily gets hot fast, but can lose it just as easily; what takes awhile to heat up stays cooler longer, but takes forever to cool off once heated.
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [kth dot dragon at gmail dot com]
posted @ Fri, Sep 21, 2007 10:50:49 am EDT from 199.38.51.134

Demon@ >> I'm not sure I follow, but yeah, it sounds possible. If the stone stuff is able to absorb heat, maybe they can speed up biochemical reactions, and that's why they heal faster?

I wonder how gargoyles keep from *over*-heating in the sun.
Vaevictis Asmadi
"We're not the last. We're not alone." - Hudson
posted @ Fri, Sep 21, 2007 10:28:04 am EDT from 71.34.56.34

VA and Keth: Oh, well now I get it :) Chemical was always a pain for me I was also thinking about the humans using the energy to expand and grow If a gargoyle heal every time they turn to stone Woudnt be possible for them to also grow a little bit during they daily stone sleep just as we do every day, if a little bit or until certain age There would be another thing they woudnt need food energy to provide them...calories to grow?
Demon@
posted @ Fri, Sep 21, 2007 9:18:47 am EDT from 190.17.250.127

Thanks, everyone.

Goldfish: Really? How close do you live to it? Do you happen to know if they finished working on Route 7, or if they're even close to being done?

Ozzie: They were actually testing the waters with Season One. I think that's why they were released a year apart.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"How were we gonna take over the world with a white Michael Jackson, anyway?"
posted @ Fri, Sep 21, 2007 6:29:17 am EDT from 71.62.204.109

Antiyonder: "Then there are some who chose not to buy it. Not because of of financial troubles but because it wouldn't be dignifying to buy half a season, especially if the second half is unavailable. I've often found the reasoning to be flimsy. Mostly because fans of Batman The Animated Series didn't let that deter them from purchasing the sets. Because the first season was 65 episodes, yet the DVD only had 27 episodes."

The thing is with Batman they didn't release the sets as Season 1 Volume 1. They just labeled all of them as volumes. If people don't specifically look up how many episodes are in Season 1, they'd never know.

I still think a major factor was the dumb idea to release box sets a year apart from each other. There is no excuse for that with a series that ended years ago. If it's an ongoing series it's understandable because you can't release episodes on DVD before they're made.
Ozzie Arcane - [ozziearcane at yahoo dot com]
"Hello Booby! This is a trap!" - Eggplant Wizard
posted @ Fri, Sep 21, 2007 3:53:20 am EDT from 69.14.122.91

Vicky82> Thanks for the link.

HoE> Not to be a conformist here, but congrats.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Thirty-Six. Nine.
posted @ Fri, Sep 21, 2007 2:13:37 am EDT from 75.60.246.240

<<When the first season set came out, everybody talked about it, made sure to know all about it and get it and get their friends interested. When the second one came out, everyone assumed that everyone else knew about it already, so the sales were much lower.>>

That's what I've seen people say, it just doesn't... it seems implausible to me, for whatever reason. I can't see people going 'oh, well we better not advertise the DVD, everyone already knows about it.' or if they did, I can't see them doing it for the first season too... or maybe there was just more hype for the first season? In my head it just doesn't make sense.

Oh well, it is what it is. Volume 1 of the Gargoyles keeps getting pushed back on the Indigo website. (Though that's hardly reliable.) Still, seeing it go from September to December is disheartening. I guess comic 6 has to come out before they can release a volume however.
Aldrius
posted @ Fri, Sep 21, 2007 1:46:10 am EDT from 207.112.58.49

A lovely image of Angela. It's nice to see some signs of the next issue. I love to see other artists' interpretations of the gargs.

My view/opinion on DVD/Comic sales;

I personally have told several of my friends about Gargoyles being released on DVD and the reaction is either a casual "cool" or disinterest. That's as far as I was ever able to get with my "sales pitch". (I am really horrid in sales)

I think that sales were higher for the first DVD was because of a nostalgia trip; someone may have saw it while they were walking by and bought it as a reminder of yesteryear, but not wanting to buy the second vol. because over time their tastes have changed. And they weren't willing to shell out the extra dough.

And with the comics; it could be the childish/geeky stigma of comics or quite simply some people just don't like comics. I love superheroes (Superman, Spiderman ext.) And I know pretty much the ins and outs of the stories, but I have NEVER read a single comic. They (comics) have never really peaked my interest. Its more of a personal preference I guess. I don't mind buying whole volumes, just not individual issues.

And my only comment on Disney; they could, or rather, they have it in their power to advertise for this series, they have numerous T.V. radio and internet outlets to do it with. I think to them Gargoyles was there, it sold some stuff, and it ran its course so they put in their "vault" to be re-released as some "special edition" or something of that nature. I don't know was it the idea of Greg or Disney to put Gargoyles on the market again?
kitsuneopal - [superducknts at netscape dot net]
posted @ Fri, Sep 21, 2007 12:39:03 am EDT from 65.189.220.156

<< But then again, why would they need less food? Thats the part I really dont get very well.>>

Kth perhaps explains it better than I will. It is some biochemical thing. Basically, endotherms eat lots of food for this reason: we need the physical material in the food to rebuild/repair/grow our bodies, and energy to allow us to move, but we also need the chemical energy in food (calories?) to burn for fuel, just to keep our bodies warm. Our bellies (or each cell?) are like furnaces that we have to keep shoving more wood into. Exotherms don't burn additional food for fuel to keep warm, so they need less food overall.

So it seems that since gargoyles get their energy mainly from heat, they don't need to eat (much) additional food for energy.

Another reason mammals eat more than reptiles (according to Wikipedia) is that when we sleep, we still have a high body temperature and metabolic rate. But reptiles slow down their hearts and metabolisms when they sleep, so they save energy that way as well.
I don't know about gargates on this one. Greg has said he doesn't think they are able to nap, so they only sleep during the day. Stone sleep seems like hibernation, except for the rapid healing.

Another issue is that apparently, human brains use up a lot of energy, much more than other brains, because they're so big. So maybe gargoyles don't use all that heat for gliding after all... maybe they use it for their brains! Or maybe that's what they use their food for. Or something.
Vaevictis Asmadi
"We're not the last. We're not alone." - Hudson
posted @ Fri, Sep 21, 2007 12:20:09 am EDT from 63.225.147.123

Also, because it was marketed as Volume 1, viewers figured that means a volume 2 is a definate thing, so as has been stated, less effort.

Then there are some who chose not to buy it. Not because of of financial troubles but because it wouldn't be dignifying to buy half a season, especially if the second half is unavailable. I've often found the reasoning to be flimsy. Mostly because fans of Batman The Animated Series didn't let that deter them from purchasing the sets. Because the first season was 65 episodes, yet the DVD only had 27 episodes.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Thu, Sep 20, 2007 11:46:51 pm EDT from 71.115.192.199

Purplegoldfish> When a page is just one big panel, that's a splash page. Covers qualify, but sometimes they're used inside the comic for dramatic effect.
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth_dragon at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Thu, Sep 20, 2007 11:42:50 pm EDT from 24.98.74.35

Demon@> The big problem with deserts, alongside the relative lack of food to support an entire clan, is water. As far as we know, gargoyles don't have mechanisms to store water in their bodies, so they'd need a reliable source of drinkable water year-round. Deserts also lack the humidity that's apparently necessary for good hatches. Though I won't toss out the idea of a smaller, more primitive "proto-gargoyle" species a looong time ago being somewhat adapted to desert life; that one is feasible.

If the body already has energy stored in it from stone sleep, that's energy that doesn't need to be derived from food. Food would only be needed to take up the slack and to provide the essential nutrients that heat does not. Gargoyles wouldn't need the calories in meat, they'd need the vitamins, minerals, and proteins (to make amino acids), which would probably be satisfied with a smaller amount. Same with the vitamins and minerals in fruits and vegetables.

Now "smaller" may not mean less than what a human would eat - they are larger, with more appendages, etc - but their appetites would have to be downright formidable if food was their only source of energy and nutrients.
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth_dragon at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Thu, Sep 20, 2007 11:40:17 pm EDT from 24.98.74.35

Aldrius> When the first season set came out, everybody talked about it, made sure to know all about it and get it and get their friends interested. When the second one came out, everyone assumed that everyone else knew about it already, so the sales were much lower.
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth_dragon at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Thu, Sep 20, 2007 11:24:56 pm EDT from 24.98.74.35

What does splash page mean? I'm kind of a comic noob ;)
Purplegoldfish - [Skydragonn at aol dot com]
posted @ Thu, Sep 20, 2007 11:10:15 pm EDT from 64.12.117.134

Hey, Im starting to enjoy these :P

Kerry: "The jungles near the equator can support clans, but I doubt deserts can, for instance"
I do not know. If we are going along with the theory of the storage of energy during the day to keep the temperature during the night, deserts or semi deserts would be a great place for a gargoyle,a place where the stone-sleep system could have develop as a defense to the rough climate.
During the day they could protect themselves from hot temperature with the stone sleep, ""absorve" solar energy and that storaged heat would help them to withstand the cold nights...or they could burn to death for so much heat >.<
Food may be a problem, but it could have been when gargoyles where little things that didnt need that much food or water

VA: "London gargoyles can have fur at all. I wonder how any gargoyle's hair and scalp work"

True...or feathers for that matter.


But still there are a few things that dont make much sense. I do agree that they coudnt turn sunlight in chemical energy as a suplement for food. Thats something only plants can do. But then again, why would they need less food? Thats the part I really dont get very well.

"Dunno what the difference could be between the sales of the first season and the second season."

The Second Season release was more expensive That could have made a huge difference.

I loved the picture too :)
Demon@
posted @ Thu, Sep 20, 2007 9:29:42 pm EDT from 190.17.250.127

HoE> Congrats!

Angela image> I think, if that's the full page, it's a splash page, probably early in the issue. It looks pretty good. Looks like he had fun with Angela's fingers, including the wing claws (really slender). Otherwise, cool.
Asatira
posted @ Thu, Sep 20, 2007 9:13:55 pm EDT from 24.197.66.218

I was never really that involved with the fandom... but were people's efforts to get people to buy the DVD that much worse when the second set rolled around than the first? Then again, public interest always seems to be a bit of a coin toss to me. A lot is dependent on individual variables.
Aldrius
posted @ Thu, Sep 20, 2007 9:12:08 pm EDT from 207.112.58.49

Aldrius> I dunno what the difference could be between the sales of the first season and the second season. Did people just not tell their friends? Did people just assume it was going to do well? Was the advertising better? I'm not sure.

Many assumed since we were a set away from a complete series, that it was a sure thing.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Thu, Sep 20, 2007 8:41:01 pm EDT from 71.115.192.199

HoE- Congrats!
I live very close to Ridgefield. (It doesn't normally snow in april though ;))

Interesting picture-I actually thought it was demona at first. I wonder what's got angela so happy? I doubt it's the cover-doesn't Greg Guler and Stepahnie L. do the covers? The art's not bad. I have hope.

Too bad about Disney screwing us over again. I wouldn't go as far as to say this is the end of the comic though. Hopefully it gets approved soon
Purplegoldfish - [Skydragonn at aol dot com]
posted @ Thu, Sep 20, 2007 7:40:57 pm EDT from 205.188.117.134

Oops, that isn't my color! (I'm on a school computer since my home internet DIED.)

Congratulations on the promotion, Harvester!

Reading what Gordon Purcell said about Gargoyles, I don't agree with him that the show looked like it was shot from pencils (at least, not the way his picture there does) but I like his style. Not perfect, but he's got the original style of the shading down pretty well.
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Thu, Sep 20, 2007 7:33:54 pm EDT from 138.192.30.190

Got some good news at work today. I'm getting promoted to the position above mine, which means I'll be able to waste more of the company's money (also means I get to go to class in Virginia Beach for two weeks).

Matt: I lived in New England for twenty years. Ridgefield, CT, which is right outside of New York. It could friggin' snow in April.

Tony: Yeah, that's unfortunate. A clerk in a restaurant back in July saw my Demona shirt, said he remembered the show, and I started going on about the DVDs, and the comic, and the Gathering a few weeks prior. And he simply said: "you're a geek, aren't you?" What can I say? I always have trouble persuading people without the aid of drugs or a car battery.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"How were we gonna take over the world with a white Michael Jackson, anyway?"
posted @ Thu, Sep 20, 2007 7:29:54 pm EDT from 71.62.204.109

Vicky >> Thanks for finding that!

It doesn't appear to be drawn by Greg Guler, and I thought he is still making all the covers, so I suspect that it is a single-picture page. Is that what you call a "splash"? I am surprised to se an image of New York since I was thinking this issue would mainly deal with Tibet.
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Thu, Sep 20, 2007 7:27:25 pm EDT from 138.192.30.190

They probably just figured they could download the episodes or watch them on youtube, so didn't care to buy the Boxset. >_>
Ice_Tyrant
"You can't end a good party without somebody on the floor" - Yusuke Urameshi
posted @ Thu, Sep 20, 2007 6:58:58 pm EDT from 65.5.252.197

<<"Have all episodes from Youtube, that's enough for me.">>

To be honest, I've never seen someone say that in my life. Except in relation to anime shows, and not because of YouTube, but because of Torrents and downloads. YouTube makes a horrible home-theater.

I dunno what the difference could be between the sales of the first season and the second season. Did people just not tell their friends? Did people just assume it was going to do well? Was the advertising better? I'm not sure.
Aldrius
posted @ Thu, Sep 20, 2007 6:27:06 pm EDT from 207.112.58.49

I think one thing necessary to get fans interested in the DVD and off the youtube downloading is informing them that they get the episodes uncensored, because to my knowledge, the loaded episodes seem to be the Toon Disney airing, therefore, incomplete.

As for talking with our dollars, I've purchased both DVD sets and by 3 copies of the monthly comic. So in my opinion, I'd say I'm entitled to complain to Disney. And again, regardless on how much the comics bring them compared to their fashion products (as I call them), we're still paying customers, so it's our opinions that matter not Disney's.

Couldn't they simply assign a person or two for the purpose of comic approval?
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Thu, Sep 20, 2007 6:08:34 pm EDT from 71.115.192.199

How early does it snow in early November in New York. I just wonder why Angela is so featured. We have had a lot of Goliath and Elisa, I'm just surprised theres no Coldstone. Cool cover, just not what I was expecting... thats not a bad thing though.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'
posted @ Thu, Sep 20, 2007 5:50:52 pm EDT from 24.207.163.239

Matt> I'd be willing to bet it is, just minus the logo and other stuff. Angela in the snow certainly fit with the story we know of the next issue. It's either the cover or a bonus illustration. Possibly a splash page, but I'm guessing one of the first two.
Demonskrye
posted @ Thu, Sep 20, 2007 5:36:27 pm EDT from 209.6.249.41

Vicky> Thanks for the link... Uh, is that a cover?!
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'
posted @ Thu, Sep 20, 2007 5:30:45 pm EDT from 24.207.163.239

Just incase anyone misses my 1st post heres a bigger picture
looks like the cover for issue 6 and I think it looks fantastic.

http://www.silverbulletcomics.com/~editor/brant/Features/gordonpurcell/Gargoyles%206%201.jpg
Vicky82 - [Vickyfanofwwe at aol dot com]
posted @ Thu, Sep 20, 2007 5:29:50 pm EDT from 195.93.21.4

I've said it before and I've said it again: I just don't like it when the discussion turns to "A *real* fan would.." Everyone's level of attachment to the show is as individual as their financial situation. A fan who doesn't want to buy teo copies because their are two people in the house who like "Gargoyles" isn't less of a fan for their actions. If the franchise is in so much trouble that we're starting to yell at people who have one copy of each issue per household instead of per person, then the few extra copies we'd get from that aren't going to make a difference. All we're going to end up with is a smaller fandom. Heck, I might not even be here because (gasp) I let my huband read my copies of the comic. And should my sister ever come to visit this coast and ask to see it, I'll probably let her do the same. I may have brought this up before, but a couple of years ago, a certain toy franchise which had a pretty devoted fanbase was not doing to well. (And in this case, it WAS largely the fault of the company that owned it. They weren't just not caring; they were really screwing up.) And some of the fans got the idea to get a campaign going to get other people to buy figures they really didn't want or need, just to keep the line alive. It wasn't endearing or inspring; it was annoying. I think it's a huge mistake to try to get people into (or back into) "Gargoyles" in any way other than showing or reminding them of the show and/or comics. If we get into all this preaching and hand-wringing about the interconnectedness of the story and the potential of the spin-offs and how important it is to save the franchise and Disney is so unfair and blah-blah-blah, people are going to be overwehlmed or uninterested. They'll think it's too complicated or too much of a crusade. Just hand them the comic or show them a few episodes. And don't fly off the handle if all they want to do right now is read your issues or borrow your DVDs. That's a start. It's enough of a begining that maybe someday, this person will say "Gee, I really like this stuff and I want to own it. Maybe I even want to help make sure there's more of it down the road." If you have someone who watches all the episodes on YouTube and BitTorrents all the comics and then says "Hey, why isn't there more "Gargoyles" out there? It's so cool!", you may smack them around for a good long time with my blessing. But let's not make the fandom into the exclusive little club where you have to pay and be wholly invested in making sure the property continues to get in.
Demonskrye
posted @ Thu, Sep 20, 2007 5:18:56 pm EDT from 209.6.249.41

Look what I found (You need to scroll down a bit

http://www.silverbulletcomics.com/news/story.php?a=6059
Vicky82 - [Vickyfanofwwe at aol dot com]
posted @ Thu, Sep 20, 2007 5:09:20 pm EDT from 195.93.21.4

>>"HOW MANY OF YOU have talked to someone who said "Oh, I remember that show, I loved it, didn'r realize it was on DVD..."" seen that, followed b: "Have all episodes from Youtube, that's enough for me."
Anonymous
>>
Zero. Most of the people I talk to say, "Oh I remember that show." And I tell them about the comics and that it's still very much alive. And they don't say anything because they're not interested. They watched it as a child and that's about all.
TiniTinyTony - [tinitinytony hotmail com]
posted @ Thu, Sep 20, 2007 3:57:00 pm EDT from 159.240.11.254

*smacks self* I had that backward. ATP is what would be stored in the cells (ATP + water = phosphate + ADP + energy).
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [kth dot dragon at gmail dot com]
posted @ Thu, Sep 20, 2007 3:52:27 pm EDT from 199.38.51.134

"HOW MANY OF YOU have talked to someone who said "Oh, I remember that show, I loved it, didn'r realize it was on DVD..."" seen that, followed b: "Have all episodes from Youtube, that's enough for me."
Anonymous
posted @ Thu, Sep 20, 2007 3:14:44 pm EDT from 84.184.124.208

HoE> I never said ANYTHING about US not haveing a relationship with Disney. OF COURSE we CAN say that they grind up babies (which they don't) but you wouldn't want to because we have to be nice to Disney as well, to keep them from pulling the plug once and for all.

If some crazed fan went on a tangent to the Customer complaints department, someone might get upset and before you know it... the comic license is recinded.

I'm not saying this will happen but it could. Anything is possible.

Matt> You are right. We, as fans, have to literally PURCHASE ANYTHING Gargoyles that come's out. It is the only way Disney will pay attention.

I know there are people out there who can't afford to buy the DVDs. I understand that. But after two and three years, don't tell me you couldn't save up $30 and $40 to buy them. Even if you don't have a DVD player, you could still buy them.

And the comic. Not mentioning names, but some fans out there won't buy yhte comic because others in the house have bought it. That's crap. We need to sell EVERY copy out there. I'm not saying to go buy 10 copies for yourself. I only buy two. One to read and one to keep mint.

But if you won't buy the book because it's already in the house... a fan would buy another copy for themselves.

It ONLY costs $3.50 ($4.50 Canadian for me) every TWO months. Now I know money is tight, but if you can't save up THAT MUCH in two months...

I know everyone's situation is different.

Buy ONE LESS pack of ciggarettes if you unfortunatly do that), DON'T eat at McDonalds once, put TWO items back from groceries that you really don't need, etc, and you can get two copies of the book.

CASH COW> Gargoyles COULD BE. HAd Disney promoted the DVDs on JUST ONE other DVD, I guarantee we'd have 1,000 more fans buy copies.

HOW MANY OF YOU have talked to someone who said "Oh, I remember that show, I loved it, didn'r realize it was on DVD..."

WE HAVE TO GET TO THOSE PEOPLE.

Like Matt said: Sales, Sales, Sales.

Like Greg said : Tell 1,000 people.
Battle Beast - [wlukinuk at telus dot net]
Lee Harvey Oswald? LIke Bull. Watch JFK AND THEN proove to me that there WASN'T a second gunman. You CAN'T.
posted @ Thu, Sep 20, 2007 2:40:31 pm EDT from 142.59.132.201

Vaevictis> Yeah, this is making me wish I'd been a bio major instead of environmental science. Never took biochem to really back up any of this. I know that some reactions give off heat, and some take heat to work... so perhaps whatever chemical reaction in gargoyle cells that allows the production of ADP for storage requires the heat they soak up in stone sleep to work. And then at night their process of ADP -> ATP (energy) gives off heat to help keep them warm as well as the energy for cell/body function.
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [kth dot dragon at gmail dot com]
posted @ Thu, Sep 20, 2007 2:32:56 pm EDT from 199.38.51.134

<<So here's where I think we are:

1. They're homeothermic in that they have a regulated body temperature that doesn't vary wildly due to external environment.

2. They are exothermic in that a good amount of their energy, which can relate to body temperature, comes from the environment around them in the form of thermal energy, versus the smaller ratio from food consumption.

These two states are not mutually exclusive. Same page?>>

Yeah, that's basically how I think gargoyles work. Maybe they aren't quite as exotheric as reptiles are... I think some reptiles can survive months without eating, I don't know that gargates can do that.

Patrick >> Somebody has asked Greg about cloudy days and short winter days. He said "Ever get sunburned on an overcast day? I have." I think it seems that he feels gargoyles don't require a sunny day to get enough energy (they aren't plants, after all). Though he has said that after a long enough time under clouds or sleeping indoors, that they would start to feel negative effects.

Demon@ >> You're right, another possibility is that they have a different metabolism at night versus during the day, or in cold weather versus warm weather. Maybe they remain exothermic until the weather gets cold, and then they switch to endothermic (and eat more) in order to maintain body temperature when it is cold. But I do think that gargoyles can't survive in the Arctic Circle, for example, because of the cold, the weak sunlight, and the sunless winters.

I also really like Kth's idea of how stone sleep could work. I'm not sure if gargoyles could turn sunlight into chemical energy, that sounds more like photosynthesis than just getting warmed up, and I don't think gargoyles are photosynthetic. But I guess that would be necessary to store heat during the night?

I was thinking about insulation of the body using fat and fur, and this occured to me: if a gargoyle had blubber or thick fur to keep body heat from escaping, it would only help if the gargoyle's body heat was endothermic. If gargoyles are exothermic and their heat comes from outside their bodies, insulation would prevent that heat from reaching their innards in the first place. So maybe insulation is a bad thing for exotherms. I also wonder if shedding plates of stone skin is harder if you have fur... I do wonder how the London gargoyles can have fur at all. I wonder how any gargoyle's hair and scalp work.
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Thu, Sep 20, 2007 2:04:13 pm EDT from 138.192.30.189

Sorry... thought of something else. I'm sure there are places where the environments are indeed too hostile for gargoyles to survive, the temperatures too extreme for their systems to deal with. The jungles near the equator can support clans, but I doubt deserts can, for instance. And I'm sure that there are latitudes (and altitudes, too) too high for gargoyles to survive year-round, which would rule them out as well.
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [kth dot dragon at gmail dot com]
posted @ Thu, Sep 20, 2007 10:52:53 am EDT from 199.38.51.134

Demon@> Perhaps during the winter food becomes more important as an energy source? I'm sure gargoyles are intelligent enough to store food for the winter (nuts, root vegetables, etc). Their territories may expand over the winter to help them cover the area needed to hunt as well. Even so, gargs may lose weight during that time.

I'd say that while in stone sleep the body's metabolism shuts almost all the way down (except to acommodate energy storage), so their energy requirements during the day are practically zero. Another point is body temperature - if a gargoyle's base temperature isn't as high as a human's, they wouldn't need to expend as much energy to keep it constant. And if the blood vessels in the arms, legs, wings, and tail are closely arranged, heat from the arteries can be transmitted to the veins, keeping the blood in those areas a more uniform temperature without extra energy expenditure. Both desert and cold-dwelling mammals and birds have vascular systems like this so their extremities don't overheat or freeze (though in the desert, the vessels are also closer to the surface to shed heat more readily).
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [kth dot dragon at gmail dot com]
posted @ Thu, Sep 20, 2007 10:11:34 am EDT from 199.38.51.134

VA: It doesnt matter where you took the information from I think got in the defesive to fast I misjudge you. Im sorry
I think a third cathegory would be in place. I still have many doubts for the extreme temperature thing Even mammals that live in the snow are highly adapted to that climate. Gargoyles have no fur to protect them, no fat (even in Broadways case :P) that would help them to keep any produced heat, even less any externaly storaged energy. Lets keep in mind that in winter time there are very short days with very little sun light.
Maybe their metabolism changes completly during the day, beeing exothermic and storing energy for the night, but they really dont need it to keep them warm. At night, their metabolism could be that of a homeothermic again. And they would use the stored heat in extremes circunstances, like freezing weather, for the gliding muscles, or even for the hormones that make their eyes glow. We have seen that they do produce light when they do that and that requires a lot of energy.
Demon@
posted @ Thu, Sep 20, 2007 9:33:20 am EDT from 190.17.245.162

Double post. Sorry -_- My brain wouldn't let me go to bed last night till I wrote this down, but I didn't think of it till I'd turned off my computer for the night.

It occurred to me that so far nobody that I know of has come up with a good process for stone sleep. The closest existing biological process that I could come up with was ossification (the turning of cartilage/other tissue to bone). What if all the cells in a gargoyle can construct a stone-like bony matrix around them, leaving the cells alive but mostly in suspended animation during the day, and deconstructing this matrix at night?

The cells themselves, or organelles within, would then absorb the heat, and some cellular process would turn it into stored energy for use during the night. If this would be the case, I'd vote for either a primitive or "mutated" form of mitochondria, since these handle most energy production for a cell anyway. They'd just take heat, generate ATP (or plenty of ADP ready for conversion to ATP), and store it till needed that night.

From the looks of it, the process starts at the surface and works inward at dawn, and starts in the garg's core and works outward at sunset. I'd say that it takes a couple of hours at least at dawn to fully encase every cell (though it's a visible covering at dawn, it's thin), and that the reversal starts a couple of hours before dark so the gargoyle is ready to be fully functional at sunset.

Does that make sense to anybody? I know it still leaves gaps, but it may provide a foundation to work on.
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [kth dot dragon at gmail dot com]
posted @ Thu, Sep 20, 2007 8:52:37 am EDT from 199.38.51.134

Patrick> Greg has said that a day without as much thermal energy wasn't going to impact a gargoyle too negatively, and since clouds do trap heat underneath them there may be enough to power a garg through several overcast days. I believe that, like human skin tone varied originally due to amount of sunlight (decreasing sunburn and preventing vitamin D overproduction near the equator, and making sure there's enough vitamin D production farther away), gargoyle stone skin varies in its absorption properties.

As far as Broadway goes, he's also much thicker in the middle than most other gargoyles. ;P
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [kth dot dragon at gmail dot com]
posted @ Thu, Sep 20, 2007 8:38:57 am EDT from 199.38.51.134

Disney and Gargoyles> I count myself among those who are quite skeptical of any theories that there's some exec at Disney who has it in for "Gargoyles" and has approval of the comics held up for as long as possible in order to kill the property. It seems a rather ineffective way to go about it, as opposed to simply letting the Slave Labor deal run out and not letting it be renewed or even not making the deal in the first place. What I keep coming back to is that "Gargoyles" is just not a priority for Disney. It may not help that it's outside of the family-friendly Disney image, but the whole SLG deal was focused on Disney properties that were less kid oriented. And with properties like "Pirates of the Carribean" and "TRON" being developed with an older audience in mind, I don't get the imporession that there's a company-wide mandate that anything not appropriate for the kiddies must go. I think it just comes down to the vicious cycle of Disney not seeing "Gargoyles" as a money maker and thus not wanting to put money into it or make it a big priority. Again, I don't think there's a big anti-Gargoyles conspiracy. But who knows what the situation with the approvals might be. The person or people in charge of approving the comic probably have other responsibilities, at the least including approving all of the other Disney comics and likely including other media as well. (Unless they're also responsible for approving European releases, in which case comics alone might make up a full time job.) The Gemstone Disney comics are probably a walk in the park for approval. Most if not all of the material has been printed previously. The book is likely ready to be approved well in advance of the scheduled release date, as the editors just have to select the already finished comics they want to use and put them in order. The comics likely just get a quick skim through for any old material that's now taboo and it's on its way for publication. The SLG stuff is a bit more challenging. It's new, it doesn't always come in early enough to be easily reviewed well before the release date. And it contains elements that the reviewers may not be certain is OK. ("Umm, this cover features a guy with a stab wound in his abdomen. Do we allow that?") Depending on how comics knowledgeable these people are, they may not even realize the time crunch the comic is under and how important getting it out on time is. And because the comic isn't a big breadwinner, no one's putting any pressure on anyone to give it special attention of prioritize its review.

I think Matt's point is a very good one. No amount of petitioning, or e-mailing or conspiracy theorizing is going to make Disney handle "Gargoyles" any better. Money talks. If we want Disney to pay more attention to "Gargoyles" we need to vote with our wallets and figure out how to get other people to do the same.
Demonskrye
posted @ Thu, Sep 20, 2007 8:38:55 am EDT from 209.6.249.41

MATT - That's very good advice, and I think that we should all follow it.

I haven't said anything so far in the current "thermal energy" discussion (largely because I'm not enough of a biology expert to contribute to it), but I still remember (from some years ago) somebody suggesting that the real reason why Sevarius brought up that talk about how the gargoyles get enough energy to glide about the city at night was to provide a convincing explanation to Derek about what that tank of electric eels was doing there (the real reason for it, of course, being to give Anton something handy for a fake death scene).
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Thu, Sep 20, 2007 7:46:54 am EDT from 4.244.215.204

The basis of the "something else entirely" theory is that there is enough heat energy in sunlight to begin with to charge up a gargoyle's biological batteries, as it were. I question whether that is true. What about overcast days, which Scotland has aplenty? What about winter in high latitudes where the day length is short, the sunlight not as intense, and the ambient air temperature is below freezing? What about gargoyles who shelter in caves by day like the ones seen in "City of Stone"? Combine all those doubts with the way we've seen Broadway eat... something doesn't add up.

281 days left until The Gathering 2008 in Chicago, Illinois!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"Don't rush me, sonny. You rush a miracle man, you get rotten miracles." - Max, "The Princess Bride"
posted @ Thu, Sep 20, 2007 6:59:28 am EDT from 76.241.156.163

HofEyes> I disagree. Or rather I sorta do. We may not have the relationship with Disney that Greg does, but we do have one. Ours is a business-customer relationship. The problem is that the customers (us) care more about the product than the business (Disney) and the business has all the control over the product. Now Gargoyles Fans have been through this many times. We sometimes have succeeded, and we sometimes have failed. But when I look at all this instances, I see that the times we succeeded is when we used our wallets more and our complaining less. Disney may not care a lot about Gargoyles, but they love money. Equate money with Gargoyles for them and I guarantee we'll have no more late comics, and the last DVD set may not be far behind. The point is, and I believe Greg has reiterated this many times, that we HAVE to put our money where our mouths are. Whbining and griping about Disney (even when we are right) will not change anything, buying Gargoyles stuff like mad, and getting others to buy it will.
When the comic gets delayed, perhaps our first response shouldn't be "Why does Disney hate/ignore/care litte about Gargoyles?" but "How can we increase sales?"
Sales are the only way to make Disney care, they are the only way we've ever succeeded.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'
posted @ Thu, Sep 20, 2007 6:50:53 am EDT from 24.207.163.239

Battle Beast: <Greg HAS to say nice about Disney. He doesn't want to jeopardize his relationship with them.> That's perfectly fine. But we don't have relationships with them, so there's no law that says WE can't say things like Disney executives make milkshakes out of dead babies. And they like to torture dwarves.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"How were we gonna take over the world with a white Michael Jackson, anyway?"
posted @ Thu, Sep 20, 2007 6:40:37 am EDT from 71.62.204.109

I'm sure Disney has a reason for not making the comic a priority, but the question is if they acknowledge that the delays help to lower the comic's success.

I'll say it again, so far in record history, if a show or a product fails due to poor handling, the ones who are in charge always point their fingers towards the product itself. It can't be their fault that the product fails.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Thu, Sep 20, 2007 6:08:28 am EDT from 71.115.192.199

Hmm, so I got the ratio of energy sources mixed up. My bad.

So here's where I think we are:

1. They're homeothermic in that they have a regulated body temperature that doesn't vary wildly due to external environment.

2. They are exothermic in that a good amount of their energy, which can relate to body temperature, comes from the environment around them in the form of thermal energy, versus the smaller ratio from food consumption.

These two states are not mutually exclusive. Same page?
Asatira
posted @ Thu, Sep 20, 2007 1:36:06 am EDT from 24.197.66.218

I'm not going to stay the fault is 100% at Disney. On August 13, it hadn't reached Disney's office. It generally takes Disney about 1 month to approve a new comic. Let's say that we wanted a comic released in November. Knowing that, the best time to get it sent for approval would be by September 28. That brings me to this question: how far long is issue #7. Issue #7 should be getting ready to send to Disney by the end of this month, if we want it in time for November.

Matt - < If #6 comes a month late, I kinda think Bad Guys should be held a month too.> If issue #6 comes out on October 3 and bad guys issue #1 comes out on October 31, would that be a problem? That's 4 weeks apart.

I think I realized another reason for delays. Halloween is rapidly approaching. Disney may be trying to get more stuff out for Halloween.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Thu, Sep 20, 2007 1:08:53 am EDT from 75.88.23.87

Sorry for the double post.

I know that last bit doesn't sound like constant body temperature, but even in mammals and birds, body temperature fluctuates with time of day, food, exercise, etc. That's more what I was talking about.
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth_dragon at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Thu, Sep 20, 2007 12:31:46 am EDT from 24.98.74.35

<<Greg keeps asking about a third category when people ask about this, and I'm thinking we might need one. Even "gigantothermy" doesn't really fit since gargoyles don't have that much body mass in comparison to skin surface area.>>
He does ask. I think the third category is being half of one and half of the other -- in-between, but not entirely either. Like "a little from column A, a little from column B" as Greg sometimes says (about other things). According to the Wikipedia article that I read, such in-between animals do exist, they're just kind of rare.

That's why I started using "homeothermic" and the other words (which I learned from Wikipedia). I honestly didn't mean to sound arrogant and I'm really sorry if I made anybody feel bad. It truly wasn't my intent at all. I know everybody knows what cold-blooded and warm-blooded are. The "big words" are pieces or parts of being warm-blooded or cold-blooded.

<<I mean, they store heat from the environment, yes. But how, and how is the release of that energy controlled? Does some part of the brain tell the body when and how fast to release the energy, or does it just get radiated out all the time, peaking a garg's body temperature soon after awakening and dipping down toward dawn?>>
I have no idea about this. I still don't have any guess of how stone sleep works, but I can only suppose that the heat-storing is related to or part of the stone sleep.
Vaevictis Asmadi
"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, easy, and wrong."
posted @ Thu, Sep 20, 2007 12:31:37 am EDT from 70.57.146.126

Okay, I checked the archives and it seems that the food is the supplement, not the thermal energy. Since we've never really seen gargoyles overheat or get cold, I would assume their body temperature is kept constant (homeothermy). However, that same fact keeps me a little leery of the usual ectotherm/endotherm naming. When ectotherms are too hot/cold, they move to a better spot. When endotherms are too hot/cold, their own body systems respond (goose bumps, shivering, fat storage/use, sweating, panting). Greg keeps asking about a third category when people ask about this, and I'm thinking we might need one. Even "gigantothermy" doesn't really fit since gargoyles don't have that much body mass in comparison to skin surface area.

I mean, they store heat from the environment, yes. But how, and how is the release of that energy controlled? Does some part of the brain tell the body when and how fast to release the energy, or does it just get radiated out all the time, peaking a garg's body temperature soon after awakening and dipping down toward dawn?
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth_dragon at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Thu, Sep 20, 2007 12:26:33 am EDT from 24.98.74.35

Sorry, last post I promise.

<<There arent any nocturnal exothermic creatures in cold places.>>

There aren't any animals that turn to stone during the day, either.
Vaevictis Asmadi
"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, easy, and wrong."
posted @ Thu, Sep 20, 2007 12:12:32 am EDT from 70.57.146.126

Sorry, again double-post.

My use of "big words" is not intended in any way whatsoever to make myself "superior" or anything like that. I'm using the words I use because I have no other way to express my thoughts. The words "cold-blooded" and "warm-blooded" do not have the meanings that I need to express, so I can't use them. When I did use "cold-blooded" earlier, I confused everybody.

Anyway, I only read about the metabolism stuff on Wikipedia.
Vaevictis Asmadi
"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, easy, and wrong."
posted @ Thu, Sep 20, 2007 12:11:12 am EDT from 70.57.146.126

<<Just because I dont use your "big-words" do not mean I dont know what they mean or that my knowledge about mammals is that they have fur and reptiles dont.>>

OUCH. I certainly never claimed that you are ignorant or inferior or anything. I don't want you to think that I feel that way.

I'm using scientif words because "cold-blooded" and "warm-blooded" are actually imprecice. Each refers to a particular combination of features, not a single feature that is all-or-nothing. I'm trying to say that I think gargoyles are *neither* cold-blooded *nor* warm-blooded, and that therefore the inability of reptiles to be active in cold weather has no bearing at all on what gargoyles can do.

I'm simply pointing out that Greg's description of gargoyles is *exactly* what exothermic means. He said most of their energy comes from external heat, and he said they eat less than mammals. That's what he said. They have to be exothermic, because that's how Greg describes them.

I don't understand how they can be exothermic and still store constant body heat during the day, but I don't have a molecular understanding of how stone sleep works, either. I'm just going by what Greg has told us here.
Vaevictis Asmadi
"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, easy, and wrong."
posted @ Thu, Sep 20, 2007 12:08:01 am EDT from 70.57.146.126

And by the way "Reptiles are not slow in cold weather because they are exothermic. They are slow in cold weather because they are poilikothermic. That means they have no constant body heat."
To have constant body heat you do need to have a constant source of energy. Any, in your terms, exothermic animal lives in areas where there is warm weather, or if it isnt at all times, they only move when the sun is up. There arent any nocturnal exothermic creatures in cold places.
Greg said that gargoyles do store energy from the sun during the day, but he hasnt said it was the only source of energy that they pocess
Demon@
posted @ Thu, Sep 20, 2007 12:00:36 am EDT from 190.17.245.162

VA: I think you are missing the point a bit I know what the words mean, and I also know what a mammal and a reptile is. And I also have to discovered a reptile which can run or even be awake and active in extremly cold weather.
Just because I dont use your "big-words" do not mean I dont know what they mean or that my knowledge about mammals is that they have fur and reptiles dont.
Demon@
posted @ Wed, Sep 19, 2007 11:51:47 pm EDT from 190.17.245.162

It's not so much that it's late, but that delays can hurt the sales. And so far in recorded history if a product fails for any reason, the company assumes that the quality is an issue, not the handling of the product.

As far as the comic not being a priority, tough. We're paying customers and we're entitled to getting on Disney's case for their unprofessional attitude.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Wed, Sep 19, 2007 11:44:11 pm EDT from 71.115.192.199

Late comic> These conspiracy theories are amusing, but highly improbable. It's not that Disney executives hate Gargoyles, they just don't care about it. Despite Battle Beast's assertion, the property is hardly a "cash cow". They don't expect to make a lot of money from it, so they don't put a lot of effort into it. My guess is that the comic has not intentionally been delayed, they just have other, higher priorities and didn't get around to approving it on time.
Phil - [p1anderson at go dot com]
posted @ Wed, Sep 19, 2007 11:30:30 pm EDT from 69.221.238.245

> I find it tempting, at times, to wonder if Disney is deliberately deciding to sabotage the comic book (even though it would not do them any financial good), because they still feel uneasy about having ever come out with a series in the "action-adventure" genre like "Gargoyles", something so unlike the conventional Disney cliches that they want to be associated with - and that the plan was to do a poor enough job of scheduling its release that they could then say to the fans "We tried to bring it back, the plan failed, so there's no longer any point in asking us to bring it back again."

But that's probably too conspiracy theory-ish.


Not really. Logically speak, no matter what distain or lack of interest you have on a franchise/product, the only opinions that matter are the paying customers. However, company higher ups like us are human and therefore are not logical in nature.

Infact, Nickelodeon's cancelation of Angry Beavers was due to a poke at the network. The final planned episode Bye Bye Beavers has the characters Dag and Norbie realizing that they are fictional characters. They go on to discuss how the network doesn't have to renew a show because they will make millions in reruns.

Nick found the ending offensive towards their practices, so they canceled the show and put it on at hours that the younger audience wouldn't be able to view the show.

And as for Gargoyles being an odd fit for Disney. Actually the show was more akin to the previous decade, because Disney was at least an example of creativity. Whereas now, in my opinion, they've become less of a family company and more of a fashion industry wannabe. Even the already kid friendly Mickey Mouse is nothing more than preschool fodder now.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Wed, Sep 19, 2007 10:42:07 pm EDT from 71.115.192.199

Sorry for the double post, I wanted to add something.

Reptiles are not slow in cold weather because they are exothermic.
They are slow in cold weather because they are poilikothermic. That means they have no constant body heat.

Gargoyles obviously are homeothermic. That does *not* require them to be endothermic, and Greg describes them as being exothermic (though he doesn't use that scientific term).
Vaevictis Asmadi
"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, easy, and wrong."
posted @ Wed, Sep 19, 2007 10:35:05 pm EDT from 70.57.146.126

Greg said that they eat less than humans. He also said that thermal energy is more than just a "suppliment," to food, that in fact it supplies *most* of their energy. The food is the suppliment.

Like I said, that is the textbook definition of exothermic. But Exothermic is NOT the same as being *totally* cold-blooded, and it does NOT mean they can't be active in cold weather. It *only* means that their energy is from an external source instead of from digesting food.

Reptiles are exothermic and poikilothermic. Mammals are endothermic and homeothermic. Greg has described gargoyles as being exothermic, and from the show we know they are homeothermic (and I think that is what Greg meant when he said gargoyles are warm-blooded). Exothermic means they get their energy primarily from external heat (which we know is true) and homeothermic means they have a constant internal body heat (which is usually referred to as being "warm-blooded.")
Vaevictis Asmadi
"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, easy, and wrong."
posted @ Wed, Sep 19, 2007 10:30:25 pm EDT from 70.57.146.126

I agree with Asatira. They may indeed survive, but they woudnt be able to move at all, not with the agility and speed a gargoyle can move under that conditions. And mammals with low temperature are very slow or small.
Gargoyles do eat more than humans, dont they? Matt has remarked these also to Elisa in one ocassion
Demon@
posted @ Wed, Sep 19, 2007 10:08:43 pm EDT from 190.17.245.162

VA> I think Greg has said before that gargoyles are warm-blooded, and out right said that while Sevarius was on the right track about them gathering energy, it was not direct sunlight but thermal energy. This is how Broadway was able to get around fine even though he spent the entire day under a pile of rubble and in the basement of a warehouse. What Sevarius got right is that this source of energy acts as a SUPPLEMENT to the energy they'd produce from food consumption and respiration alone. This extra energy is what allows them to have the extra strength to glide and possibly helps give them increased muscular strength overall (last part is my conjecture).
Asatira
posted @ Wed, Sep 19, 2007 9:36:37 pm EDT from 24.197.66.218

A cold-blooded animal can survive freezing temperatures, it just can't stay active in cold weather. Reptiles live in places with cold winters (like Minnesota) and amphibians live in the Arctic Circle.

But Greg said that gargoyles get most of their energy from heat and light, instead of from food, and eat much less than a mammal of similar size and weight. That's the textbook definition of exothermic.

However, it doesn't mean they don't have a constant body temperature. They could be exothermic and still have a constant body temperature (be homeothermic), without generating that heat internally. The only way to reconcile the observations with what Greg revealed, is to assume that they store heat in their bodies during the night. This is not by any means impossible, though it is more difficult for a medium animal (like a gargoyle) than for a large animal (like an Apatosaur).

Another thing to keep in mind is that a constant internal body temperature doesn't have to be 98.6 degrees F. Some mammals have lower internal body temperatures than that.
Vaevictis Asmadi
"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, easy, and wrong."
posted @ Wed, Sep 19, 2007 9:36:18 pm EDT from 70.57.146.126

VA: I dont think they are cold-blooded. We have seen them walking and moving around snow storms unafected. They could store heath during the day, but that woudnt last long in such low temperature. If a snow storm that almost killed Elisa, a mammal, didnt bother them, then they are probably the contrary.
A cold-blodeded creature woudnt be able to survive in the snow
Demon@
posted @ Wed, Sep 19, 2007 8:59:49 pm EDT from 190.17.245.162

Greg> Greg HAS to say nice about Disney. He doesn't want to jeopardize his relationship with them.

Todd's Grassy Knoll theory> I do tend to belive that Disney is rup to no good when it comes to Gargoyles. I mean, why ELSE would they let a cash cow go? They REFUSED to promote Gargoyles DVDs, they consistantly DELAY the comic... it has to be something.
Battle Beast - [wlukinuk at telus dot net]
Lee Harvey Oswald? LIke Bull. Watch JFK AND THEN proove to me that there WASN'T a second gunman. You CAN'T.
posted @ Wed, Sep 19, 2007 8:57:44 pm EDT from 142.59.132.201

I don't believe Sevarius' hypothesis that gargoyles need thermal energy to fly. We often talk as if it's a canon idea, but Greg has never confirmed that Sevarius is right. He has only said that gargoyles get most of their energy from heat and/or sunlight, NOT that they use most of their energy for gliding. Considering that they don't flap their wings, I doubt that gliding uses up that much energy. Probably they use thermal energy for the same thing that reptiles do -- to keep their bodies warm. Greg has said that gargoyles eat less than humans do, which is another good reason to think they're simply cold-blooded. Mammals use most of their food as fuel to produce body heat. Reptiles, who produce little or no body heat, eat much less.
Vaevictis Asmadi
"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, easy, and wrong."
posted @ Wed, Sep 19, 2007 8:09:10 pm EDT from 63.224.5.116

Not only is Disney plotting to destroy the "Gargoyles" comic, they also killed Kennedy, turned Michael Jackson into a white man, and helped plan 9/11. :P

282 days left until The Gathering 2008 in Chicago, Illinois!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"This is a conspiracy, that's what this is. One big damned conspiracy." - Samuel Norton, "The Shawshank Redemption"
posted @ Wed, Sep 19, 2007 7:52:31 pm EDT from 68.76.120.247

I find it tempting, at times, to wonder if Disney is deliberately deciding to sabotage the comic book (even though it would not do them any financial good), because they still feel uneasy about having ever come out with a series in the "action-adventure" genre like "Gargoyles", something so unlike the conventional Disney cliches that they want to be associated with - and that the plan was to do a poor enough job of scheduling its release that they could then say to the fans "We tried to bring it back, the plan failed, so there's no longer any point in asking us to bring it back again."

But that's probably too conspiracy theory-ish.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Wed, Sep 19, 2007 7:01:29 pm EDT from 4.244.215.200

Delayed?! BLAST IT! Does Disney have something against taking our money? It seems to take forever for them to release stuff that I want. Like the stupid idea of releasing box sets a year apart(I think that's what really messed up the Gargoyles sales) and some shows that I'd actually pay for that they aren't releasing at all.
Ozzie Arcane - [ozziearcane at yahoo dot com]
"Hello Booby! This is a trap!" - Eggplant Wizard
posted @ Wed, Sep 19, 2007 6:23:03 pm EDT from 69.14.122.91

Matt> It may be the preferred way to raise gargoyle eggs but when Katharine and Co. were taking care of the "eggs" they endured several different environments before coming to Avalon. And they all hatched and grew up fine.

When I first watched the episode I thought the moss was some kind of "gargoyle baby food", grown there on purpose to feed the hatchings when they were young. I know different now, of course.
kitsuneopal - [superducknts at netscape dot net]
posted @ Wed, Sep 19, 2007 5:48:25 pm EDT from 65.189.220.156

Keep in mind that according to Greg, Gargoyles absorb THERMAL energy. They are not using sunlight the way plants do (to drive photosynthesis), they are using it the way many reptiles do (absorbing heat as an energy source). I highly doubt that the bioluminescent stuff in the Wyvern rookery was giving off much heat, if any. I think that stuff was more telling of the humid environment, and as Kth pointed out I think that can tell us a lot about rookeries in general. Do they always need to underground and humid? Maybe the algae/moss is needed for some reason, or even, more interestingly, the moss evolved to live in gargoyle rookeries. Who knows?

Comic> Well... that sucks. Not only does that give us yet another delay, but it gets us off that nifty every other month schedule. If #6 comes a month late, I kinda think Bad Guys should be held a month too.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'
posted @ Wed, Sep 19, 2007 4:53:21 pm EDT from 24.207.163.239

Maybe thats one of the reasons Demona hates humans; they invented epidurals. :P

Asatira> That's also a good point given where they were.

Its nice to be able to talk about Gargoyles. Never been able to do this before. :D
kitsuneopal - [superducknts at netscape dot net]
posted @ Wed, Sep 19, 2007 3:55:52 pm EDT from 65.189.220.156

HoE: Maybe Demona was thinking about her laying the egg while pointing at Goliath white her bazooka some years later
Demon@
posted @ Wed, Sep 19, 2007 1:46:17 pm EDT from 190.17.245.162

Vaevictis> "It really feels like Disney has something against their own comics, even though I know Greg has insisted they don't."

Yeah, tell me about it. *grumbles*
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Thirty-Six. Nine.
posted @ Wed, Sep 19, 2007 12:34:09 pm EDT from 75.60.246.240

Just to add one last thought about the caves, I'm pretty sure the eggs are as self contained as most hard shell eggs. Besides, there's no guarantee that the EVERY rookery in the world has glowing moss. Just a thought.
Asatira
posted @ Wed, Sep 19, 2007 12:18:42 pm EDT from 131.204.217.206

Vaevictis> You're probably right. Since the little ones don't need to worry about flying, just growing, the yolk sac would likely be plenty.

And that gets me to thinking of caves with hot springs in them. Yay natural jacuzzi. ^..^
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [kth dot dragon at gmail dot com]
posted @ Wed, Sep 19, 2007 11:25:43 am EDT from 199.38.51.134

I doubt glowing moss or algae would provide the same kind of energy as sunlight, as it's quite maladaptive for the plant to expend that kind of energy for no gain to itself.

I think the eggs must have a yolk sac, and maybe gargoyles prefer to roost in caves that are warm, like from geothermal energy.


This Day is interesting today. I wonder what Demona was practicing and how she injured herself.
Vaevictis Asmadi
"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, easy, and wrong."
posted @ Wed, Sep 19, 2007 11:03:52 am EDT from 71.34.57.188

kitsuneopal> Well, eggs usually only absorb moisture and oxygen from outside, but it's definitely not outside the realm of possibility that they absorb the light from the moss during the day and use that to help the embryos develop. I'd tend to doubt that the embryos need the extra energy, since I can't imagine them not having a yolk sac, but it would still make sense on a certain level.
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [kth dot dragon at gmail dot com]
posted @ Wed, Sep 19, 2007 10:31:33 am EDT from 199.38.51.134

Thanks, Brigadoon Traveller, for the info.

Crap. Disney is again delaying the comic by refusing to approve it. I'm afraid this delay will be the final nail in the coffin for this property. It really feels like Disney has something against their own comics, even though I know Greg has insisted they don't.
Vaevictis Asmadi
"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, easy, and wrong."
posted @ Wed, Sep 19, 2007 10:31:24 am EDT from 71.34.57.188

Brigadoon Traveller> Thanks for the info. Oh what a lovely thing to wake up to. Once again Disney disappoints me.(I should be used to this)

Kerry (Kth) Boyd> Caves are neat like that. :) I know that the eggs turn to stone like the adults, but what do the eggs absorb? There is no sun. So I am thinking perhaps it is the moss/slime that covers the walls (that stuff that Broadway was munching on) that provides the needs of the eggs. It also appears to be bioluminescent so that might be the replacement solar energy they use during the day.
kitsuneopal - [superducknts at netscape dot net]
posted @ Wed, Sep 19, 2007 10:23:23 am EDT from 65.189.220.156

Brigadoon Traveller> Thank you for finding more info for us. ****ing Disney!
TiniTinyTony - [tinitinytony hotmail com]
posted @ Wed, Sep 19, 2007 9:04:39 am EDT from 159.240.11.254

Brigadoon Traveller> Great. Another possible issue delay.

This is really going to do wonders for the comic.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Thirty-Six. Nine.
posted @ Wed, Sep 19, 2007 8:49:02 am EDT from 75.60.246.240

kitsuneopal> Perhaps they don't need to be incubated by adults - it's entirely possible that the environment in the rookery is already what the eggs need. Underground, the eggs would be kept at a more constant temperature, and I think it'd also be more humid than the aboveground air. We know they need turning during the night, but there doesn't seem to be any other care that's needed (at least that we see), other than protecting the eggs from getting broken, smashed, or stolen.
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [kth dot dragon at gmail dot com]
posted @ Wed, Sep 19, 2007 8:43:49 am EDT from 199.38.51.134

Comic #6> I emailed Dan Vado of SLG and he said that the comic is held up at Disney as with the other Disney titles. He said they will release it as soon as it is approved. He didn't mention anything about how this affects Bad Guys.
Brigadoon Traveller
posted @ Wed, Sep 19, 2007 8:43:48 am EDT from 194.82.51.28

Speaking of Demona in pain. Read TDIGUH. Guess Demona should learn that when practicing sorcery: remember safety first!
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'
posted @ Wed, Sep 19, 2007 6:50:37 am EDT from 24.207.163.239

Now I'm wondering if Demona shouted anything about someday taking revenge upon Goliath while she was laying the egg. That would have been amusing.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Silence! Twist those knobs! Twist those knobs! And you: pull some levers! PULL SOME LEVERS!" -Invader Zim
posted @ Wed, Sep 19, 2007 6:40:49 am EDT from 71.62.204.109

SLG did update their release schedule Tuesday. That's a good sign, even if the release schedule didn't mention gargoyles issue #6. SLG released two new comics last week and is slated to release a new compilation this Wednesday.

As far as the status of issue #6, I'm not going to get overly concerned until Saturday. Still, assumedly, it's been a month since issue #6 was sent to Disney for approval.

I just thought about a new question about CoS. Could Xanatos have taken over the airways over a much larger area (let's say most of the US) to broadcast the spell?

*disappears into thin area to try to fix computer problems on a different pc*
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Wed, Sep 19, 2007 12:35:16 am EDT from 71.30.129.181

I think the last thing we should do is start mass emailing SLG. It probably wouldn't change much (if anything), and I don't think it's a good idea for them to be annoyed by the fans.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'
posted @ Tue, Sep 18, 2007 11:30:08 pm EDT from 24.207.163.239

Greg's not speaking about it because he probably knows as much as we know -- Nothing. He does his story and ships it off to Disney. Then, I'm sure Disney sends it to SLG once approved for printing. Do you think there is any communication between Disney and Greg when that happens? Probably not. Do you think SLG calls him to say it's approved? Maybe. Maybe not.

Dph_of_rules did mention that Greg knew that Gargoyles #5 was coming out 9 days early. Well that makes sense, because the expected release dates from Diamond are published on the Mondays, a week before they are released the Wednesday of the following week, exactly 9 days early.

So maybe someone at SLG shoots Greg an e-mail telling him the release date the same day that we know it is going to be released. Again, look at SLG's site. They have no confidence in their posted release dates and have you link to Diamond to take blame off of them.

I see, thanks to whomever pointed it out, that SLG is having problems with Diamond. So I will check if the comic is available on the website tomorrow and next week, and if it is, then I might order from them instead of waiting for Diamond to ship it to their retailers.
TiniTinyTony - [tinitinytony hotmail com]
"What you're passionate about, from a cartoon standpoint, has to do with what age you were when you very first saw it." ~Greg Weisman
posted @ Tue, Sep 18, 2007 11:29:17 pm EDT from 71.181.163.77

Then I guess in a way its good gargs only have 3 mating cycles.

I wonder once the eggs are laid how they are incubated? They are out in the open (so to speak).
kitsuneopal - [superducknts at netscape dot net]
posted @ Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:49:33 pm EDT from 65.189.220.156

Well, those eggs look about the size of a watermelon, but they're soft when laid, so who knows. I think he said once that it is about equally hard, and that some females die. As if gargoyles didn't have enough population problems!

I do wish Greg would say something about the comic, but maybe his silence is a sign that nothing is wrong? I don't think the SLG comic can survive another delay.
Vaevictis Asmadi
"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, easy, and wrong."
posted @ Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:40:39 pm EDT from 71.34.42.133

"Well, Scotland did survive. Though I imagine Goliath probably regained consciousness about a mile from the castle."

LMAO! Is it more painful to lay an egg or give live birth I wonder...
Purplegoldfish - [Skydragonn at aol dot com]
posted @ Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:19:31 pm EDT from 64.12.117.134

wow, I haven't commented in here for awhile....I actually had to put all my information back in!

demonskyre-I believe cyberhunt was an advertisement for something rather than an "official" comic. usually ad comics/art artists don't get credited. But I can't find the issue amid my little collection so I'm not positive.

And I too am getting impatient with the comic...Doesn't greg usually mention when there is a problem?
Purplegoldfish - [Skydragonn at aol dot com]
posted @ Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:16:57 pm EDT from 64.12.117.134

Antiyonder: Well, Scotland did survive. Though I imagine Goliath probably regained consciousness about a mile from the castle.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Silence! Twist those knobs! Twist those knobs! And you: pull some levers! PULL SOME LEVERS!" -Invader Zim
posted @ Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:08:50 pm EDT from 71.62.204.109

Making it coincide with Bad Guys would be a bad idea, I hope they don't do that. Having a comic come out every month was one of the good points of the Bad Guys idea (besides letting Greg tell more stories, of course).

Maybe if every one of us emailed SLG and asked them to please update their website somtetime, they would listen?
Vaevictis Asmadi
"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, easy, and wrong."
posted @ Tue, Sep 18, 2007 5:41:30 pm EDT from 63.224.7.216

Cyberhunt> If i had to guess, I'd say it was Goliath, with the message being that the Trio are so busy squabbling about who's the most important that they aren't able to concentrate on the task at hand. Goliath seems to be the most observant throughout the story and is closest to the circuit in the next to last panel. I'm wondering if there was an answer printed later in the magazine, but all in all, it's a pretty silly story so the only reason I really want to know is so we can put it in GargWiki.
Demonskrye
posted @ Tue, Sep 18, 2007 5:06:43 pm EDT from 209.6.249.41

Meant to say, how would Scotland survive Demona's moment.

Anyone ever figure out which Gargoyle won at the end of Cyberhunt?
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Tue, Sep 18, 2007 4:32:46 pm EDT from 71.115.192.199

Comic> I'm wondering if they're holding it off so it will coincide with Bad Guys *shrugs*

Angela's Egg> better being Broadway than Thailog raping her :p

Todd: I think it was Lex with Hudson in that one DA

DA Comics: Lines Of Allegiance is also my fave. Broadway and Owen make a good team .

also , are there any custom Angela's Online? I thought I saw a pic of her somewhere ... hmmm...

DA Comic
Starlioness
posted @ Tue, Sep 18, 2007 4:18:10 pm EDT from 67.171.38.50

If Angela would get that way when laying an egg, how did Scotland Demona's moment?
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Tue, Sep 18, 2007 4:16:27 pm EDT from 71.115.192.199

Nope. Another reason why we're probably not getting it this month! WTF?
TiniTinyTony - [tinitinytony hotmail com]
Whenever you set out to do something, something else must be done first.
posted @ Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:28:38 pm EDT from 159.240.11.254

Does anyone know what the cover to #6 looks like yet?
Siren
Don't knock on Death's door. Ring his doorbell and run, he hates that.
posted @ Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:25:50 pm EDT from 68.202.76.113

Patrick 'It'll be fun to know that six months from next weekend, Angela will screaming "YOU DID THIS TO ME!!!" at Broadway as she lays that egg.'

Actually I think Angela will be Screaming "YOU DID THIS TO ME YOU BASTARD"

Anyway I've been thinking I wonder when Angela and Broadway have there Mating ceremony, of course it will be between 1997 and 2007, so anyone got any ideas when.
Vicky82 - [Vickyfanofwwe at aol dot com]
posted @ Tue, Sep 18, 2007 2:45:13 pm EDT from 195.93.21.4

If anyone's curious, I've now put up articles for all of the Disney Adventures "Gargoyles" comics (including all the ones Todd mentioned) with links directly to the folder for each story on the Avalon Archives. I've got credits for every story except "Cyber Hunt" now, so if anyone has the issue with it, I'd appreacite it if you could check and see if it has credits. That particular story also ends with a question for the reader to answer and I'm wondering if the magazine provides that answer or just leaves it up to you to decide for yourself. Aside from that, having the issue dates would be nice. But otherwise, the articles for the DA comics are fleshed out and ready for further editing. You can find them easily in the "Disney Adventures" subcategory under "Apocrypha".
Demonskrye
posted @ Tue, Sep 18, 2007 2:28:43 pm EDT from 209.6.249.41

We know that gargoyles issue #6 isn't coming out tomorrow, September 19. If anybody does believes that issue #6 is coming out tomorrow, then he/she is a moron.

We also know that Greg Weisman told us *9* days in advance of when issue #5 came out. Assumedly, he would tell us as soon as he knew about issue #6 coming out. But, again, that lack of announcement by itself isn't evidence.

SLG hasn't said updated their release schedule page in a while; however, slg is a small company that doesn't focus on their website. The slg blog hasn't said a word about gargoyles issue #6. Again, I take that with a huge grain of salt.

Unlike TiniTinyTony, I'm waiting until Saturday the 22nd hits before I hit the panic button. However, if somebody was to contact Greg Weisman about the status of issue #6, it would go a long way to ending speculation.

Interesting response with Today in Gargoyles's Universe History. (of course, I think every entry in that is interesting in itself.) 19 more days until we get to the 6 month anniversary of This day in Gargoyles' Universe History.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Tue, Sep 18, 2007 1:40:54 pm EDT from 216.96.17.171

An SLG staffer alluded to shipping problems with Diamond a few weeks ago: http://slg-news.livejournal.com/209259.html So Gargoyles may not be the only SLG property having problems this month.
Lumpmoose - [lumpmoose at Googles dot email dot service dot com]
posted @ Tue, Sep 18, 2007 1:32:29 pm EDT from 128.101.32.234

Well I'm looking for more confirmation other than the fact that it's not on Diamond's shipping list or listed on SLG's Release Schedule page. And I don't know how long the link has been there on SLG's page, but there is a link there that takes you to Diamond's shipping list page too! So it's got to be at least one of these three things:
a) Disney hasn't approved it yet
b) SLG didn't print it yet
c) Diamond isn't shipping it yet
TiniTinyTony - [tinitinytony hotmail com]
Whenever you set out to do something, something else must be done first.
posted @ Tue, Sep 18, 2007 1:26:12 pm EDT from 159.240.11.254

TTT > Is it *confirmed* that #6 isn't coming this month?

Patrick > I'm looking farward to This Day for the equinox. And especially for *next* equinox.:D
It'd also be great to learn some hatchdates of previous years, this spring.
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Tue, Sep 18, 2007 1:11:09 pm EDT from 138.192.30.177

So anyone know why we aren't getting Gargoyles #6 this month?
TiniTinyTony - [http://www dot geocities dot com/tinitinytony]
Whenever you set out to do something, something else must be done first.
posted @ Tue, Sep 18, 2007 11:09:31 am EDT from 159.240.11.254

Crud, that's what I get for not putting a name tag. Sorry HoE, the death post was for Demon@
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [kth dot dragon at gmail dot com]
posted @ Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:49:09 am EDT from 199.38.51.134

Patrick> "Get the salad spoons, man!"

Bill Cosby makes me happy. ^_^
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [kth dot dragon at gmail dot com]
posted @ Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:45:53 am EDT from 199.38.51.134

HARVESTER - I'm afraid I didn't check the writers' names.

I stopped reading "The Wheel of Time" about halfway through; it wasn't a formal decision, I just drifted away. I liked parts of it, but it was too slow-moving in parts, and too solemn for my taste, as well. (One element of it that I'm still uncertain about was the way that many of the characters' names echoed names of various legendary figures, particularly from the Arthurian cycle - Morgause, Gawain, Guinevere, Elaine, etc. - though there were also the names of the Trolloc tribes, similarly echoing "banshee", "demon", "devil", "gargoyle", and so on.)

There'd be some precedent for the proposed solution for finishing the final book, since Christopher Tolkien did something similar with the "Silmarillion".
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:31:21 am EDT from 4.244.212.79

It'll be fun to know that six months from next weekend, Angela will screaming "YOU DID THIS TO ME!!!" at Broadway as she lays that egg.

283 days left until The Gathering 2008 in Chicago, Illinois!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"And the doctor was still sitting there like Johnny Bench! I said 'Isn't that the head?' He said 'Yeah.' I said 'Well go get it!'" - Bill Cosby, "Himself"
posted @ Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:00:39 am EDT from 68.76.120.247

Demon@> Follow the link to "Avalon Archives" in the menu on the left under "related websites". Click "The Gallery", then "Comic Books", then the "Disney Adventures" folder. Now here's the unintuitive part: click the "Temp" folder and you'll see links for all the DA comics and other DA Gargoyles stuff. No clue why it's in the Temp folder, but that's how you get there. Eventually, I should have links to all the comics up on each article for them on GargWiki.
Demonskrye
posted @ Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:55:54 am EDT from 209.6.249.41

Okay, so I got the terms mixed up. My mistake.

Phil: Yeah, Jack Bauer could also barely move by the end of the second season.

Todd: <The gargoyles foiling an attempt by Demona to disrupt a Halloween party through using a holograph projector to create images of giant insects and causing panic (a surprisingly unambitious scheme on her part).> How ambitious could Demona really be in "Disney Adventures"? Incidentally, do you know who these were written by?
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Silence! Twist those knobs! Twist those knobs! And you: pull some levers! PULL SOME LEVERS!" -Invader Zim
posted @ Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:52:05 am EDT from 71.62.204.109

kitsuneopal> YOu're welcome! :)
Battle Beast - [wlukinuk at telus dot net]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Tue, Sep 18, 2007 12:13:18 am EDT from 142.59.132.201

Battle Beast> Aww thanks for the cookies :D I would think with this kind of message board it happens a lot.

That's a shame about Robert Jordan. I have never read his books, but people I know have nothing but praises for his works.
kitsuneopal - [superducknts at netscape dot net]
posted @ Mon, Sep 17, 2007 11:48:52 pm EDT from 65.189.220.156

Vaevictis> Unfortunately, the final book in the series (A Memory of Light) is unfinished, though he did give notes to his children. It's possible his family will agree to let someone else use his notes and finish the book.
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth_dragon at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Mon, Sep 17, 2007 9:23:24 pm EDT from 24.98.74.35

This is off-topic, by the way, but anyone who likes Harry Potter (or really dislikes him) ought to visit this URL:

http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/index2.php

(It'll be replaced by a new comic tomorrow, so if you go there after midnight or thereabouts tonight, go to No. 297 in the archives and read it.)
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Mon, Sep 17, 2007 9:06:11 pm EDT from 4.245.17.150

"The gargoyles foiling an attempt by Demona to disrupt a Halloween party through using a holograph projector to create images of giant insects and causing panic (a surprisingly unambitious scheme on her part)."
Maybe she was having a good day and thought a good joke would be in place? Or then again maybe not
Did someone said there was a website with these comics to see?? :)
Demon@
posted @ Mon, Sep 17, 2007 8:44:05 pm EDT from 24.232.31.201

Yggdrasil, that's too bad.

I read four of the Wheel of Time series and liked it a lot, but Real Life made it impossible for to read any further, and at this point I'd have to start the series over from the beginning.

I hope he was able to finish his writing. It may sound like a lame sentiment, but it would suck to get so close to finishing a project but be unable to actually finish it.
Vaevictis Asmadi
"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, easy, and wrong."
posted @ Mon, Sep 17, 2007 8:32:46 pm EDT from 71.34.58.131

I remember "Lines of Allegiance" (which is, admittedly, difficult to fit into canon alongside "City of Stone" - each story comes up with a different and incompatible version of the end of Xanatos and Demona's alliance) and "All in a Night's Work". The other "Gargoyles" stories that I remember from "Disney Adventures" (though I don't recall the titles) were:

The trio deciding to find out if there really are alligators in the sewers (it turns out that there were - until Broadway ate them all).

The gargoyles foiling an attempt by Demona to disrupt a Halloween party through using a holograph projector to create images of giant insects and causing panic (a surprisingly unambitious scheme on her part).

Hudson and one of the trio (I can't remember which one) having a run-in with a not-too-adept stage magician whom they mistake for the real thing.

The trio seeing the Disney movie of "The Hunchback of Notre Dame" with Elisa and criticizing its portrayal of gargoyles as too silly and undignified.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Mon, Sep 17, 2007 7:30:57 pm EDT from 4.244.210.100

Greetings;

Just found out that author Robert Jordan has died. Damn, I'm going to miss his wrting.
Yggdrasil - [eng050599 at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Mon, Sep 17, 2007 5:54:51 pm EDT from 72.142.211.157

DA Comics> I spent a good chunk of today reading and summarizing more of the "Disney Adventurs" comics for GargWiki. So far I have the short introductory "A Study in Stone", the rather goofy "All in a Night's Work", the "The Price" inspiring "Stone Cold" (which is now linked to in the article for that episode), and the so far best story in the Disney Adventures comics "Lines of Allegiance". Feel free to take a look and edit as necessary. There's a link to GargWiki on the left side of this page under "Related Websites".

For those of you who have the DA issues, I could still use the month and year of the issue each comic was in. And I need someone to double check that I got the credits right. They''re especially tough to read on the scans from "Stone Cold".
Demonskrye
posted @ Mon, Sep 17, 2007 5:01:39 pm EDT from 209.6.249.41

Yeah, I've been counting down the days for this. This is the first time since I've started really looking at the Gargoyle reproductive timetable that one of the "times" (mating, laying or hatching) has happened.

As for Brook and Katana's third. Greg hasn;t said much. There is no reason we know of yet that Katana couldn't be laying her third when Angela lays her first. But Greg hasn't said much and when asked tends to give answers saying "I don't know" or "Maybe. If they are both alive and things are working for them."
I can't see Katana and Brook choosing not to have a third if they could.

Anyway, it'll be neat to know that in the Garg Universe Angela is preggers, and later it'll be fun to know theres an egg in the Eyrie's rookery. It'll be really fun to come back and read this entry in March 2018 when Artus hatches. Though by that point I might only have to download it into my head or something.

On a related topic, I wonder who else will be expecting? Will Delilah mate with someone? Malibu perhaps? What about Sora? Has Yama returned to the Ishimura Clan and their good graces yet?
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'
posted @ Mon, Sep 17, 2007 4:43:02 pm EDT from 24.207.163.239

TiniTinyTony - I'm going to hold onto hope until Friday midnight California time.

Of course, there's this: http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=9707 On July 9, Greg Weisman said he learned about the release of issue #5 on July 18. That's 9 days in advance. I guess that might mean that today is the day to find out about the issue #6 coming out on the 26th.

Matt - <And in the Gargoyles Universe, it is on or near this equinox that gargoyles around the world will be mating to produce an egg to be laid next spring.> Then, theoritically, next Sunday's entry could be a relatively long one, when you think about it.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Mon, Sep 17, 2007 4:28:03 pm EDT from 216.96.17.171

Yay gargoyle mating season! When the spring equinox comes around, there should be a party in here.

Re: Angela > I've read that electric shock can stop the heart.
Vaevictis Asmadi
"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, easy, and wrong."
posted @ Mon, Sep 17, 2007 3:46:24 pm EDT from 63.225.152.149

I don't have access to the episode at the moment, but I'd say a little bit of everything, though the zap probably tipped the scales. Trauma can cause ventricular fibrillation (cardiac arrest), and so can electrical impulses, but the combination of the two really put Angela's body through the wringer. (if you watch the original CSI, this is the medical examiner's "heart -> bag of worms" thing)
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [kth dot dragon at gmail dot com]
posted @ Mon, Sep 17, 2007 2:54:09 pm EDT from 199.38.51.134

Vicky82> I'm guessing a combination of both? Probably mostly the shock. They shoot Goliath with one of those things, don't they and it doesn't stop his heart, right? I don't remember.

* * *

In other news, I'm a little upset. I have the feeling we are NOT getting Gargoyles #6 this month.

http://www.diamondcomics.com/shipping/expected_092607.txt
TiniTinyTony - [tinitinytony at hotmail dot com]
Content makes poor men rich; discontentment makes rich men poor.
posted @ Mon, Sep 17, 2007 2:50:43 pm EDT from 159.240.11.254

This has been in my mind for years but what caused Angela's heart to stop was it falling off the roof on to the car or was it the electrical weapon she was hit with.
Vicky82 - [Vickyfanofwwe at aol dot com]
posted @ Mon, Sep 17, 2007 2:17:28 pm EDT from 195.93.21.4

Well, there's legally dead and clinically dead. Legally dead means there's no body, but nobody can find you, so to the law and the government, you're considered to be dead. So I'm pretty sure you're not talking about that.

Clinically dead means your heart and lungs stop functioning. The body immediately goes into oxygen debt and organs begin to fail due to lack of blood flow. Measurable brain activity only goes on for 20-40 seconds, and the organ itself fails entirely in 5 minutes or less. So, unless immediate action is taken, "mostly dead" becomes "all dead" pretty quick.

Oh, and then there's brain dead, where the body itself is kept functional with life support equipment, but there's no brain activity. The lights are on, but nobody's home, as it were.

So Angela was clinically dead for a bit, but got revived in enough time that her body and brain were still functional. Thank goodness. I don't think the world is ready for a debate on keeping a brain-dead garg alive through medical machinery.
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [kth dot dragon at gmail dot com]
posted @ Mon, Sep 17, 2007 12:45:12 pm EDT from 199.38.51.134

kitsuneopal, Ice_Tyrant> Welcome. Have a cookie! *Holds out cookie trey* YOu kinda got lost in the change over...

Greg does check in here from time to time, But mostly to stop us from fighting or to tell us some great news. He answers questions from the "Ask Greg" all the time, though. But don't ask him stuff here. He won't answer.

Gargoyles' flight Speed> I couldn't even venture a guess. However, it must be kinda fast, I would think...
Battle Beast - [wlukinuk at telus dot net]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Mon, Sep 17, 2007 12:21:04 pm EDT from 142.59.132.201

Va: true. I have forgotten about that.
Arent you legally death when you stay death? When someone is in a coma, they are considered legally death because their brains are death, though the heart is still beating. Angela´s heart stopped, but her brain fuctions were still working
Demon@
posted @ Mon, Sep 17, 2007 12:08:47 pm EDT from 190.2.14.81

Whoops have not been in here in awhile whats new in gargie land:P
Shara
posted @ Mon, Sep 17, 2007 12:05:51 pm EDT from 76.170.153.117

*laughs* I love you guys. ^_^
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [kth dot dragon at gmail dot com]
posted @ Mon, Sep 17, 2007 11:44:54 am EDT from 199.38.51.134

"Have fun storming the castle!"

Sorry! I saw "mostly dead" and couldn't resist. =)
Ethan Gilchrist - [ethan at randominformation dot com]
"I wouldn't wanna live in a world without grudges." --Jack Terricloth of the World Inferno Friendship Society
posted @ Mon, Sep 17, 2007 11:37:01 am EDT from 130.218.173.5

HoE> "...being legally dead would wipe most people out."
Jack Bauer does it two or three times a day and handles it pretty well.

Matt re:Artus's conception day> Very cool. I couldn't think of what event you were talking about until you gave the answer. Then it seemed obvious.
I don't remember Greg addressing this, but is there any reason Brooklyn and Katana won't be trying for a third next weekend as well? And gargoyles all over the world will be "getting it on." Sounds like a good setting for an adult fanfic. (Too bad I'm not into those.)
Phil - [p1anderson at go dot com]
posted @ Mon, Sep 17, 2007 9:05:19 am EDT from 134.215.196.82

HoE > I think she must have been only *mostly* dead.

284 days left until The Gathering 2008 in Chicago, Illinois!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"Don't rush me, sonny. You rush a miracle man, you get rotten miracles." - Max, "The Princess Bride"
posted @ Mon, Sep 17, 2007 7:16:04 am EDT from 68.76.120.247

Just a glitch in the space-time continuum, I suppose.

Anyway, since no one was able to guess what I was talking about when I asked what this coming Sunday is, I'll tell you. Sunday is 9-23-07. Thats the autumnal equinox. And in the Gargoyles Universe, it is on or near this equinox that gargoyles around the world will be mating to produce an egg to be laid next spring. These eggs will hatch in 2018. So, this weekend, in the Gargoyles Universe, Angela will become "pregnant" with Artus.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'
posted @ Mon, Sep 17, 2007 6:37:34 am EDT from 24.207.163.239

Why are we speeding up all of a sudden?
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Life's the same, except for my shoes." -The Cars ("Moving in Stereo")
posted @ Mon, Sep 17, 2007 6:30:48 am EDT from 71.62.204.109

My lucky number 11th!
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'
posted @ Mon, Sep 17, 2007 5:51:37 am EDT from 24.207.163.239

What the heck? Ten.
L.T. Williams
Usually a lurker...
posted @ Mon, Sep 17, 2007 4:36:09 am EDT from 68.183.95.134

Ninth!
Spen
"Isn't it satisfying to watch your child grow up from a tiny little acorn into a complete nut?" - George Pickard
posted @ Mon, Sep 17, 2007 3:41:44 am EDT from 66.43.205.110

7th, 8th, 9th, 10th! And away we go on with the show.
Thomas Peano - [tpeano29 at hotmail dot com]
It's silly. It's a silly movie. There just isn't much there. Once you take it all apart, there's not much story, is there?- George Lucas on Spider-Man 3
posted @ Mon, Sep 17, 2007 3:14:35 am EDT from 69.54.209.23

Sixth.

Something that came to mind a while back. Greg mentioned that concerning The Mirror, that the original dialogue from Demona was "You serve him, you can serve me". That was changed due to fear that "him" would be mistaken for Satan. Kind of funny considering Greg's ramble on "Her Brother's Keeper":

"Derek thinks Elisa thinks Xanatos is the "Prince of Darkness". "He practically is!" she responds. <SIGH> Tricksters are always being confused with Satan.

But that was more irony. It's not the demonic-looking gargoyles who are being compared to Satan. It's the handsome, rich Bruce Wayne-esque playboy. I guess the goatee helps."

Makes his membership (666 members) in The Illuminati all the more fitting. I'll have to remember to submit this next time.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo,com]
posted @ Mon, Sep 17, 2007 2:02:54 am EDT from 71.115.218.238

Sixth - and Seconding what dph said
Wingless
posted @ Mon, Sep 17, 2007 1:54:20 am EDT from 74.115.187.62

fifth
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1 at sbcglobal dot net]
Video games are my cocaine!
posted @ Mon, Sep 17, 2007 1:11:04 am EDT from 69.231.209.185

4th.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Thirty-Six. Nine.
posted @ Mon, Sep 17, 2007 12:42:54 am EDT from 76.247.68.145

Third just because
Ethan Gilchrist - [ethan at randominformation dot com]
"I wouldn't wanna live in a world without grudges." --Jack Terricloth of the World Inferno Friendship Society
posted @ Mon, Sep 17, 2007 12:29:50 am EDT from 66.56.6.148

Second!
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth_dragon at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Mon, Sep 17, 2007 12:12:37 am EDT from 24.98.74.35

1st in the name of hope of issue #6 coming out this month
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Mon, Sep 17, 2007 12:02:05 am EDT from 216.96.17.171