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Gargoyles

The Phoenix Gate

Comment Room Archive

Comments for the week ending October 1, 2007

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ZERO!
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'

Off to sleep, but I call negative one for the week!
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
"You're so beautiful when you hate the world." -Zuko, from Avatar: The Last Airbender

Rebel: Welcome. It would be interesting to know if other gargoyles would take on a likeness towards the heraldic beasts you mention. The London Clan is all I've seen from the TV series that resembles the beasts, but I wouldn't dismiss the possibility that more could exist.
The One Known As Mochi - [rolandsteinert at hotmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>O.o)>

Well, this week is about to end, so just so everyone's aware I might repost this comment onto next week's comment page.
Rebel - [rebel2004nay at yahoo dot com]

Todd> Great post below concerning King Arthur and Macbeth. I love hearing about that kind of stuff, and it brought back good memories when I read about those two in high school.
TiniTinyTony - [tinitinytony hotmail com]
"What you're passionate about, from a cartoon standpoint, has to do with what age you were when you very first saw it." ~Greg Weisman

*takes a cookie*

Mmm....good!

I've checked ebay out, and they have some of the other issues, but not the issues that I'm missing. If I don't manage to find them somewhere else, I'll probably just end up checking ebay periodically and hope I get lucky.

Also...I just read a comment below that sparked my interest to go and read about the London Clan in the gargwiki...and was surprised to find that it does indeed say that they will all look like unicorns, lions, or griffins. I'm shocked! So it is certain that no other heraldic animals will be seen in this clan? That's disappointing...there are plenty of other heraldic beasts including boars, stags, wolves, dragons, phoenixes, etc., that would be very interesting to see. Will none of these animals be represented?

Rebel - [rebel2004nay at yahoo dot com]

REBEL> Welcome! Have a cookie. *Holds out a cookie trey for them*

OLD MARVEL ISSUES> Trey EBAY. That's all I can suggest.

Battle Beast - [wlukinuk at telus dot net]
That is all I will say.

Wow, what a cool place this is! I hope to start dropping by more often and adding useful comments. But for right now I only have 2 things to say:

1. I have just started reading the new SLG comics and I LOVE THEM! The art in the first three is pretty mediocre, but in 4 and 5 the art is fantastic. The storylines are great and I really hope this series lasts a long, long time! It's so great that Gargoyles is finally back!


2. I REALLY NEED HELP finding 3 issues of the old Marvel series. I almost have all of them, but I am missing 6, 8, and 9. If anyone knows where I can find them or has some they'd want to sell (though I doubt that) hit me up. My e-mail is rebel2004nay@yahoo.com.

Rebel - [rebel2004nay at yahoo dot com]

Matt: True Havent thought of that
Wingbat. its a continuation of the spinal cord

Demon@

yeah ok thanx
and another question that i have
is the tail an extension of the spinal cord or does it stop at the hip somewhere and then continue?

Batwings? - [evanescencefan55 at aol dot com]

Gargoyle wings appear to be connected around the spine and shoulders, judging by screenshots, though of course Greg hasn't specified which bones articulate to each other, or anything like that.

I think it may have thrown you off when somebody (me?) mentioned gliding lizards, which use their ribs to support gliding fins (instead of as ribs)

Vaevictis Asmadi
"For every complex problem, there is a solution which is simple, easy, and wrong."

ok sorry i missed the conversation about the wings. i'm confused. where are the wings conected to? the ribs or the spine? or is it some where else?
Batwings? - [evanescencefan55 at aol dot com]

happy b-day greg if you read this! i also got a gargoyle board game thing! woot!
dan

Demon@> The spell never said that gargoyles had to be at the Castle. For all we know, Xanatos could've left them in Scotland and they would've woken up when the Castle was completed in New York.

Patrick> That is something I hadn't considered. Maybe you are right. I just wonder with all the renovating and rebuilding of the Castle that Xanatos did when he moved it, it must've been difficult to know at what point the spell would've been broken.

Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'

Todd: I see what you mean now. Somehow I've disassociated Scotland from being on the same island as Britain... Minor brain fart... LOL
The One Known As Mochi - [rolandsteinert at hotmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>O.o)>

The Genesis concert last night was AWESOME. The played over two dozen songs in over two and a half hours without any intermission. The speakers were set on eleven... ZOMG my ears are still ringing. The lighting and backdrop effects were amazing, and I've never been to a concert where the other fans are so friendly. I can't wait to see this show again in L.A. in two weeks. :D

HoE > There's a set list here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turn_It_On_Again_Tour

Re: the castle - The spell's condition was "until the castle rises above the clouds," so I would presume Xanatos was waiting for the right weather system to roll through and drop the ceiling below the tops the skyscrapers.

271 days left until The Gathering 2008 in Chicago, Illinois!

Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"I see a lot of old people here tonight, and tha's good because we're going to play some OLD songs. We're going to play some songs written when most of us had hair." - Phil Collins

Matt: Maybe he hadnt placed the gargoyles on their perchs yet. Maybe they were still on the boxes when he inspected the casttle
Demon@

A question about a date from yesterday.

1994
Xanatos inspects his castle atop the Eyrie Building. He wants everything to be perfect before he attempts to wake the gargoyles.

If the Castle was finished, wouldn't the Clan have already woken up? Did they need to be on the Castle? The spell never said that. Or were they considered part of the Castle? Or had Xanatos left off some significant piece of the Castle until he was ready?

Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'

Congratulations, incisivis!
Vaevictis Asmadi
"For every complex problem, there is a solution which is simple, easy, and wrong."

Incisivis: congratulations! :)
Demon@

MOCHI - Yes, but Scotland is part of the island of Britain.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

Anyone here watch Legion Of Super Heroes? Yesterday's episode (The Man From the Edge of Tomorrow Part 2) was written by Greg. Overall a fun episode, the Batman reference was nice.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo,com]

Incisivis> Congrats. :)

Mochi> Yeah, he was the king of Scotland. I think.

KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Thirty-Six. Nine.

Todd: Wasn't Macbeth the king of Scotland and not Britain, or am I mistaken...?
The One Known As Mochi - [rolandsteinert at hotmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>T.T)>

Patrick: I'd be interested in knowing what songs they do.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Cunnilingus and psychiatry brought us to this." -Tony Soprano

Just calling to say that I won first prize in Creative Writing at a local arts festival. Go me!
Incisivis - [incisivis at hotmail dot com]
"No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream" -- Shirley Jackson

I like the touch about Constantine embarking on an anti-gargoyle campaign out of frustration over Princess Katharine escaping him. It fits in yet again with Goliath's words in "M.I.A.", "Human problems become gargoyle problems."

After my post this morning about Arthur's coronation being on Michaelmas in the Gargoyles Universe, it occurred to me that there might have been another reason why Greg Weisman had chosen that date for it; he also made it the date of Macbeth's coronation (which would be logical; it would be the first major church holiday after Macbeth's overthrow of Duncan, which was on August 14). In the two episodes that King Arthur appeared in "Gargoyles", Macbeth was his adversary. We know that Greg likes drawing parallels between the protagonists and their opponents for dramatic effect (obviously, the big reason why Macbeth would be Arthur's antagonist is that they're both famous semi-legendary medieval British kings who've survived into the modern world, though in different ways); he might have wanted to give them the same coronation date to tie in with this.

Incidentally, here's a piece of information that I discovered this morning, which astonished me; on September 28, 1962 (and the September 28 part is significant, since that's Greg Weisman's birthday), Charles Schulz's "Peanuts" had Snoopy impersonating a gargoyle (a conventional architectural gargoyle, of course, but a gargoyle nonetheless). The following day, September 29, also had Snoopy continue to do his gargoyle impersonation. I'm almost tempted to consider it an omen.

Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

Constantine: "I don't think I like gargoyle eggs."
Sam I Am: "You do not like them, so you say. Try them, try them, and you may. Try them and you may, I say!"

Off to see Genesis in concert tonight. Woohoo!

272 days left until The Gathering 2008 in Chicago, Illinois!

Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"he frog was a prince, the prince was a brick, the brick was an egg, the egg was a bird." - Genesis, "Supper's Ready"

Eggs... from hostages to tasty breakfast entrees, is there anything they can't do?

Now I'm wondering if we'll see any dates that Demona started meeting other vagabond gargoyles.

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Cunnilingus and psychiatry brought us to this." -Tony Soprano

Somehow, I doubt Constantine was ever pro-gargoyle. If I'm right, it was the gargoyles' alliance with Kenneth II that led to the overthrowing of his father, King Culen.

He'd have probably started massacring gargoyles with or without Katharine. For the time, the eggs just made great hostages to force her to obey him.

Greg Bishansky

Yeah, I found the 995 date interesting. Constantine gets mad about Katharine leaving so he starts going all anti-gargoyle? Seems like a major overreaction. And it certainly had impacts on later Scottish gargoyle history. Makes me think some of the gargoyles who had their clans destroyed would later join Demona and ally with the Scottish King, Macbeth. Kinda ironic, that.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'

Hmmm, so this means that the Captain probably meets with Hakon on my birthday. Cool.

It also looks like Constantine needs prozac. That, or something that purposes of decency prevents me from saying, but anyone who knows me can probably guess.

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Cunnilingus and psychiatry brought us to this." -Tony Soprano

Mmmm, interesting This Day entry!
Vaevictis Asmadi
"For every complex problem, there is a solution which is simple, easy, and wrong."

I'm a day late, too, but happy birthday to Greg!
Kaylle

DPH - According to Greg Weisman, Macbeth and Thorfinn were allies, but they had to leave Thorfinn out of "City of Stone" due to lack of space for him. (There's a historical novel about Macbeth by Dorothy Dunnett, entitled "King Hereafter", which hypothesizes that Macbeth and Thorfinn were really the same person.)

SPEN - I can offer a hypothesis about Greg's dating King Arthur's coronation to Michaelmas. In Malory's "Le Morte d'Arthur", after the young Arthur pulls the sword out of the stone, nearly all of the nobles refuse at first to accept him as King of Britain, so Arthur has to repeat his feat on the succeeding major Church holidays. Since he initially pulled the sword out on New Year's Day, that meant that the next holiday he would have to perform it on was Candlemas (February 2), followed by Easter, and then Pentecost. Each time, Arthur was the only one who could withdraw the sword from the stone, and none of the nobles (though they tugged their hardest) were able to do the same, but they still insisted on yet another attempt on the next church festival. However, when it was still the same by Pentecost and the barons demanded a further delay, the townspeople of London spoke up in protest, announcing that Arthur was clearly the one meant to be King of Britain and they were for him. The nobles, not wanting to get into a fight with the exasperated citizenry, yielded and accepted Arthur on the throne.

It would most likely have been a little too late in the day on that Pentecost for a proper coronation ceremony to be held, so they probably decided to hold it on Michaelmas (the next important church holiday on the calendar). That's what I'm assuming here; only Greg Weisman can answer it for certain.

(The fact that it was on Pentecost that the deadlock over the Sword in the Stone finally broke might be why Arthur made Pentecost the day on which he would host the annual gatherings of the knights of the Round Table, incidentally.)

Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

Ok, Todd, you're the residential expert on Macbeth; I have a question for you. From TDIGUH, 1040, "Thorfinn is rewarded with basic autonomy over Orkney, in practice if not in name.". I have found this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorfinn and from there, I guessed to go here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorfinn_Sigurdsson%2C_Earl_of_Orkney

I don't quite see the connection to Thorfinn and Macbeth listed in the entry or is there something I'm missing?

dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?

Happy belated birthday to Tim Morgan! And, if he's lurking, happy belated to Airwalker too.

I wonder where Greg came up with September 29th as the date of Arthur's crowning. Might be something to ask him when the "Ask a question" button is reactivated.

Spen
"Isn't it satisfying to watch your child grow up from a tiny little acorn into a complete nut?" - George Pickard

Is it too late to say happy birthday to Greg W.? I'll say happy belated birthday to Greg since it's technically the next day.

Have a good one Greg!

The Known As Mochi - [rolandsteinert at hotmail dot com]
O.o

Happy belated birthday to Greg Weisman!

and my deepest sympathies to Gantros

Purplegoldfish - [Skydragonn at aol dot com]

Thank you everyone for the birthday wishes. It's much appreciated. Gargoyles-fans never forget!!
Greg Weisman
"Uh... because my spider-sense was tingling?" -- The Spectacular Spider-Man (coming your way in March 2008)

Demon@ - <You dont use the letter Ñ in inglish> Naturally, my keyword doesn't have that particular character and I'm not sure typing ascii codes into my text would work in this comment room.

Of course, there's this question: name a date that has more events on it than 9-28 in the the garg wiki timeline.

dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?

Happy birthday, Greg W.!
Asatira

"Not having any other known Gargate species complicates things"

True, but I do agree with VA on these one. Garg-beasts seem physically to different from the other gargoyles to put them on the same family, even. The same order, for sure.
Maybe what Greg meant when he said that the relation between garg-bests and gargoyles was the same as humans with Chimps was the intelectual comparision of garg-beast and Chimps, but not the skeletal composition
The vestigial wing bones beneath the skin is a close kindship but that could be used to put them under the same order. Maybe a suborden would be in place for each of them. Just like lemurs and humans are in the same order, but different suborders.

" Don't worry, you're usually easy to understand.
Vaevictis Asmadi"

:)


"Feliz cumpleanos"

You dont use the letter Ñ in inglish Hahaha Never noticed it ;)

Demon@

I'm hesitant to try this again, after what happened last year, but what the hell.

I'd also like to wish a happy death-day to Charles Canmore. We don't know much about him, but I think we can say with certainty that there was one thing Charlie probably hated more than gargoyles: surfing.

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"We all disagree, I think we should disagree." -The Strokes ("Is This It?")

Happy Birthday or Feliz cumpleanos, Greg Weisman.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?

Vaevictis> Makes sense.
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth_dragon at hotmail dot com]

Gandros: I'm sorry to hear about your loss.

Greg W: Happy Birthday! Don't do anything I'd do.

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"We all disagree, I think we should disagree." -The Strokes ("Is This It?")

Vaevictis> Yeah, I wouldn't put them in the same Genus either, but I think the same Family is possible. The fact that Greg has said that Beasts may have vestigial wing bones beneath the skin supports a close kinship. Putting them in the same Genus though just isn't realistic. Humans and Chimps are not in the same Genus and we are far more similiar anatomically than Gargs and Beasts are. I think they share the same Order of Family depending on how loosely you define those terms. Not having any other known Gargate species complicates things.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'

Kerry >> I think considering their differences, that beasts and gargoyles are separate genera, but in the same Order, at least. I probably wouldn't put them in the same family, either. Human that I am, I even came up with what I think would be appropriate scientific names for them: Apotropeia sapienta (sentient guardian statue) and Shishi caninus (dog-like foo-lion), though in the Gargoyles Universe they are more likely to end up named something like Anthropophagus horibilis (horrible man-eater).

Demon@ >> ? is that how you call them :P Im sorry its hard to get the words right>> Yes, other than the spelling of a few words. Don't worry, you're usually easy to understand.

Vaevictis Asmadi
"We're not the last. We're not alone." - Hudson

Demon@> Well, sorta, if I get your meaning. In my mind the beginning of gargate evolution starts out with a four-legged synapsid with plates or a spinal fin on it's back. Such creatures existed and I think they are an excellant starting point. From there, in my hypothesis, the environment would play a major role in their evolution, naturally. Stone sleep, wings, the nocturnal lifestyle, possibly even collective rookeries, rigid breeding cycles and communal living all developed as responses to the major ecological crisis undergoing life on Earth at the end of the Permian. Hopefully I'll get time soon to elaborate from there.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'

Thank you! That helps muchly.
Ethan Gilchrist - [ethan at randominformation dot com]
"I wouldn't wanna live in a world without grudges." --Jack Terricloth of the World Inferno Friendship Society

****Blaise hurtles into the Comment Room through a window--which was unfortunately closed at the time. He gets up and dusts himself off.**** Well, RL is still kicking me around like an old ball, and I'm only praying I'll be able to purchase the next comic issue when it comes out in a week and a half or so. But other than that, I can't complain too much.

GANTROS> I offer my condolences, as well. I didn't get a chance to attend the Las Vegas Gathering, but I do remember you from the Comment Room a while back. I can only imagine what you are going through right now, so I can't really offer much in the way of advice, but my best thoughts are with you.

ETHAN> Don't forget the end of "Future Tense."

GREG WEISMAN> A very Happy Birthday to you! Somehow, it's not so surprising that today turns out to be something of a red-letter day in the "Gargoyles" Universe.

Well, it's back to surviving for me. Until next time, farewell. ****Blaise takes a deep breath, and makes a running leap back out the window and into chaos.****

Blaise
"Build a man a fire, keep him warm for a day. Set a man on fire, keep him warm for the rest of his life."--Terry Pratchett's "Jingo"

VA: More or less, yes. They would be gliding animals with four limbs and a membrance at first. But in that stage in those deserts these membrances could have envoled into some sort of extra pair of limbs that would be used only to gather heat (and thise could work also with Matt`s theory Wasnt it more or less what you had?) But after that, when some moved to the mountains, these pair of limbs could have envolved into stronger ones to help them glide.
Whales, dolphins and other acuatic mammals went trough more or less by the same process They envolved from mammals that walk inland (? is that how you call them :P Im sorry its hard to get the words right)


Kerry: Mmm, well I would say that at that time all the continents were one, or were just separating but I dont know much about that

Demon@

Tony> I dunno. 44?
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth_dragon at hotmail dot com]

Thanks for the offer, but I was asking how many candles would be in the cake?
TiniTinyTony - [tinitinytony hotmail com]
Whenever you set out to do something, something else must be done first.

Ethan> He also appeared in 'The Gathering, Part 2' and 'Possession'.

Hope that helps.

KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Thirty-Six. Nine.

Vaevictis> Yeah, if they're close enough to be separate species in the same genus, I'd say their metabolisms are very similar.

On another note, I wouldn't be surprised if gargoyles used the beasts for hunting the way humans use hounds and hawks (though the beasts seem more intelligent, and so would be even better help).

Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth_dragon at hotmail dot com]

I need a bit of a favor. I'm trying to get some good screencaps of Puck but I can't remember what eps he appears in aside from The Mirror. I'd rather not have to trawl through all of them to be sure I didn't miss any. I did get some great ones from The Mirror but the one detail I really need is partially obscured by the chains. >_< Can anyone let me know what episodes he is in? Not counting 3rd season of course.
Ethan Gilchrist - [ethan at randominformation dot com]
"I wouldn't wanna live in a world without grudges." --Jack Terricloth of the World Inferno Friendship Society

Haven't put them on yet. You can if you want. *holds out the box of candles*
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth_dragon at hotmail dot com]

Gantros >> I am very sorry to hear about your loss. I haven't met you before, and I can't know what you're going through because I haven't experienced it myself, but you have my sympathies, for whatever that's worth.

Demon@ >> That is another possibility. Though I'm a bit confused. At first you said they could have evolved from small gliding therapsids, then later you said that with stone sleep, their fins would not be used for energy gathering and would evolve into wings. Do you mean they started out gliding, lost the ability, then gained it again?

I don't know if garg-beasts are ectothermic. Come to think of it, Greg has only discussed the energy and eating habits of gargoyles, not beasts. Though I think if they are closely related, they probably have similar metabolisms. It seems that the stone skin is the main way the modern gargates gather energy. But I could be wrong.

And, Happy Birthday, Greg W. Why am I not surprised it's also Vinnie's birthday? Wow, a lot has happened today.

Vaevictis Asmadi
"We're not the last. We're not alone." - Hudson

How many candles are in that cake?
TiniTinyTony - [tinitinytony hotmail com]
Whenever you set out to do something, something else must be done first.

*brings in Greg's birthday cake*
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth_dragon at hotmail dot com]

Have a great one, Mr. Weisman!
Incisivis - [incisivis at hotmail dot com]

Happy Birthday, Greg!!
Noel Leas - [nleas at hotmail dot com]
Noel Leas

Happy Birthday Greg Weisman
Spacebabie - [spacebabie at hotmail dot com]

I may not comment often in the CR, but even I knew what today was: Happy Birthday, Greg W!! (Man, quite a few things happen on your B-day, don't they? :P )

And to Gantros: Welcome to the CR, and I am truly sorry for your loss. I have had many a death in my family, but I seriously can not imagine losing my own father.

Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka

Hey, folks!

Happy birthday to Greg, and also to my own Tim!

And I'd like to announce that the writer and artist submission guidelines for the next Gathering anthology have been posted!

The theme this time is "Items of Enchantment," to give a little attention to the other magical goodies now that we've done the Big Three. There's a LiveJournal community set up for would-be contributors and interested folk.

So, glide on over and check it out! Feel free to spread the word, too.

http://community.livejournal.com/g_anthologies/ or clickie below.

Christine - [<--------- 2008 Anthology Guidelines!]

Gantros> I'm sorry for your loss.

TDIGUH> Wow, a lot happened over the years on this day. I mean, a lot. We've got landing on Avalon, Vinnie's birthday, and the events of the Mirror. *whistles*

Asatira

Gantros> I am deeply saddened by this news. Please allow me to off my heartfelt condolences. May you find clarity in your time of sorrow.
TiniTinyTony - [tinitinytony hotmail com]
Whenever you set out to do something, something else must be done first.

I dont know either Gantros nor Greg, but my condolensces to you Gantros

And well, thise is ironic, but happy birthday to you to Greg. Life goes on...

Demon@

Gantros> I'm so sorry. *hug*
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth_dragon at hotmail dot com]

GANTROS - I'm sorry to hear about your father.

Does anybody besides me suspect that it's probably not a coincidence that Greg Weisman had the events of "The Mirror" take place on his own birthday?

Oh, and many happy returns, Greg!

Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

Gantros> Welcome back to the Comment Room. I'm sorry to hear about your father. It must be pretty rough. My sympathies.

Happy Birthday Greg (and Vinnie)!

Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'

Spen> I second that.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Thirty-Six. Nine.

Gantros : I'm terribly sorry to hear about your loss.

On a much happier note, happy birthday, Greg Weisman!

Spen
"Isn't it satisfying to watch your child grow up from a tiny little acorn into a complete nut?" - George Pickard

Gantros> We've never met, since I didn't attend the Vegas Gathering, but I'm sorry to hear about your father and wish you both my sympathies and the best of luck.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Thirty-Six. Nine.

I know I haven't been active around the gargoyle fandom in awhile, but as you may have met me and my father at the Las Vegas Gathering, I felt I should inform you that my father passed away on Sunday in his sleep. All speculation points to a freak event that caused his heart to stop in his sleep. This is very saddening because since January 2006 he had been treated for varying forms of cancer, all of which the treatments managed to eradicate, and was finally on the way to recovery. He was 57. He wasn't one to share my interests, but he was my best friend as well as my father, and I am pushing onward in a much darker future. Thank you for allowing me to express my feelings amongst those I consider kindred spirits.
Gantros Obscura - [gantros at hotmail dot com]
"As with all things, darkness falls for thee"

Sorry for the double post.

"Where" meaning which continent, or section of supercontinent (I forget which ones were connected when). Kind of like the sites we call "cradles of civilization" - points where modern human beings spread outward from.

Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth_dragon at hotmail dot com]

Demon@> Interesting. I don't know about the progression of terrain types, but that does need to enter into it. Where would these intermediates have existed? Wouldn't they have had a point of origin, so to speak, and spread across the globe from there? I think we'd have a better idea of the looks/behavior/biology of the Therapsid-ish gargoyle ancestors, as well as the evolution from Therapsid to modern gargoyle, if we knew what kind of environments they'd have been dealing with along the way.
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth_dragon at hotmail dot com]

VA and Matt and Keith, if you are out there somewhere: A have a huge book about evolution of vertebrates lying here somewhere One of those days I will dust it off and give it a look :P
Okey, with what I know and I have stolen from your theories ( >:) muehehehe) These is what I think:

I do agreed that Gargates parted from the Therapsids. I would say, though, that they envolved from some sort of primitive gliding therapsid and that then, as wood become deserts, to protect themselves from the climate, they developted the stone like skin. And with these incorporated they woudnt need fur all over their bodies, like other therapsids that envolved to mammals.

If we go along the previous discussion about the endothermal and exothermal theory these could fit pretty well. During the hot rough days they would gather heat to use during the freezing nights. But as they cant autoregulate their body temperature during the stone hibernation and the gather of heath, they could use the membrates to allow the win to regulate the temperature.

In these stage the membrates would only be usefull for that, for in a desert they would have need to developt stronger anterior members. The membrance could have gotten stronger in some parts along the back until they developted these cartilage third pair of members.
Once dinosaurs were gone, like the mammals, they were able to move to better territories. The separations of the gargates could have taken place. A few went to prairies, others to the mountains, others to woods, etc.

In the prairies, the pre-wings members were no longer necesary and as the time went by they got stronger limbs and those could have been the ancestors to the actual garg beasts...Maybe those are endothermal VA, they have no wings to gather heat! :P

In the mountains those pre-wings members envolved for another use: gliding, and from those could have envolved the actual gargoyles.


Does any of these make any sense?

Demon@

I don't mean that I think they descended specifically from gorgonopsians, only that I imagine the first gargates may have looked like them.
Vaevictis Asmadi
"We're not the last. We're not alone." - Hudson

Vaevictis> The funny thing is, I almost mentioned the gorgonopsids in my earlier post, but didn't because I'm not sure if I want to nail down the gargate branching that specifically yet. Gorgonopsids are up there among the contenders though. I've also thought about cynodonts being the source... I dunno yet, but I do feel confident that they branched somewhere among the Therapsids... or at least among the other Synapsids.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'

Yeah I agree with you two, Matt and Demon@.

Thouth the exact arrangement of the mammalian ear bones could not be present in the common ancestor, because that arrangement of ear bones is used by scientists as The definition of what a mammal is. So since gargates are not mammals, they can't have the actual mammalian ear -- at least, not unless they evolved something similar independently. But the therapsids had ears more similar to mammals and less like reptiles, and gargoyles must have very mammal-like ear-bones in order to have their external ears sticking out of their skulls, instead of their jawbones.

In my imagination, the first gargates looked like gorgonopsians, but with a bit of hair, slightly shorter fangs, and maybe the beginning of those fin/wings. Superficially similar to garg-beasts, but with flatter heads and jaws, and without the horns. Also with the thick, more gargoyle-like tails (like Demon@ said?) instead of the beasts' thinner tails.

By the way, I have an idea: If we all used Idea Tags (like Spoiler Tags) in our posts, would that make it easier for Greg W. to take part in conversations here? Or would Idea Tags be too much of a pain?

Vaevictis Asmadi
"We're not the last. We're not alone." - Hudson

Vaevictis> "Matt, your idea is that the wings originally evolved as fins to collect heat and sunlight, right? I like that hypothesis. Though I still disagree that Dimetrodon was a direct ancestor. Besides having only one sail instead of two, it was also very primitive and unlikely to have hair, milk, or advanced mammal-like ears. I favor a gargate ancestry among the therapsids."
I don't really think Dimetrodon was a direct ancestor either. I mostly threw him out there as a visual example since he is relatively well known. I think hair, milk and the mammalian ear have a common source for both gargates and mammals, which means gargates branched off from the line that would evolve into mammals in the late Permian/early Triassic. This fits in nicely with my other ideas of when and why and how gargates evolved. Of course, it's all just one step after another in the chain of life. Gargates probably didn't start to resemble modern gargoyles until millions of years down the road, and I'm sure there was a lot of interesting "intermediate" groups.

Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'

Didn't Greg say that the first issue starts in 1997 and then flashes back to the Squad's formation in 1996? If so, we may see Yama and Fang in the first issue, after all.

Right now, I'm wishing we could see the #6 cover.

Vaevictis Asmadi
"We're not the last. We're not alone." - Hudson

Ohman. Yama's not going to be showing up until issue 2? That sucks. He's the character I was most looking forward to seeing... at least he is in it before Fang I suppose. Not that I don't like Dingo or Robyn... I just like Yama more. :P

Actually, I seem to have more of an interest in the Japanese gargoyles. My favourite EU character is Katana...

Anyway, Bad Guys looks pretty exciting. Which is great!

Aldrius

I've just looked at Amazon (UK Version) and I saw that the Gargoyles Clan Building Vol 1 is available for pre order for just under £9 which is good news for us UK fans.
Vicky82 - [Vickyfanofwwe at aol dot com]
myspace.com/sweetandinnocentvicky

Bad Guys >> I hope we get to see some Japanese gargoyles that haven't shown up before.

Demona@ >> The "false mammals" are often called "mammal-like reptiles" in English, though they were not reptiles, strictly speaking. They are called Therapsids and they are to mammals, what dinosaurs are to birds. Their bones document the evolution of a mammalian body from a more reptile-like ancestry, though of course the fossils cannot show when things like hair and milk evolved.
Therapsids are part of the larger group called Synapsids, which also includes much more primitive creatures such as Dimetrodon.
A good website (one I've used for lots of research) is Palaeos Vertebrates, here's a url: http://www.palaeos.com/Vertebrates/Units/400Therapsida/400.000.html

Matt, your idea is that the wings originally evolved as fins to collect heat and sunlight, right? I like that hypothesis. Though I still disagree that Dimetrodon was a direct ancestor. Besides having only one sail instead of two, it was also very primitive and unlikely to have hair, milk, or advanced mammal-like ears. I favor a gargate ancestry among the therapsids.

Vaevictis Asmadi
"We're not the last. We're not alone." - Hudson

Greg B.> Thanks for the description.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Thirty-Six. Nine.

Thanks GB for description. Any sign of the covers for G#6 or BG#2?
TiniTinyTony - [tinitinytony hotmail com]
Whenever you set out to do something, something else must be done first.

Vaevictis> That works too. Not getting any evolutionary biology till I got to college (and there wasn't much there on the mechanics) is definitely not working for me here. I don't really mind having gone to a religious high school, but I do feel behind in areas like this.
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth_dragon at hotmail dot com]

Wow... Such an in depth discussion is literally frying my brain... Lol. Makes for good reading though! :D
The Known As Mochi - [rolandsteinert at hotmail dot com]

Thanks for the Bad Guys info, Greg B. Greg W told me at the Gathering that we'd be seeing Sora in Issue #2, so that'll be fun. I've always looked forward to the Sora/Yama relationship.

Garg Evolution> Yes, I have some theories on the matter. In fact, I've already written the outline for an essay explaining my theory. Unfortunatly, I don't have time right now to get into it. Suffice to say I strongly believe that Gargates descended from the Synapsids, the mammal-like reptiles that thrived in the Permian and Triassic periods. I also think their ancestors were four-limbed creatures and that the wings evolved from other structures. Something important to keep in mind when talking about the evolution of the wings is that only SOME gargoyles have wings resembling bat-arms. There are many other varieties. Saying gargoyle wings evolved from a seperate set of arms because they sometimes look like arms is exactly like saying gargoyles descended from lions because somtimes they look superficially like lions. I think Vaecitis is on the right track with the wings, though my explanation for their development is different and a bit more complicated than the lizards she is refering to. It has to do with the evolution of stone sleep, the Permian environment, and a Dimetrodon's sail... like I said it's a long, complicated theory, but I think it works pretty well.
Hopefully, I'll get a chance to go over it in here soon.

Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'

Yup, and they common ancestor, I would say could be the false mammals (I dont know how you call it in english) for they and our actual gargoyles share characteristics of both mammals and reptilians (such as legs and tail)
Demon@

Thanks for the info, Greg B.

Wings >> I think the Coelurosauravus' wings are just as good a way to evolve wings as fish fins, since they look about the same. And if one land animal can evolve wings out of literally nowhere, so can another.

I've also been working on a taxonomy for gargates. Considering their multiple similarities to mammals, I have to conclude that they must be related to mammals. I just cannot concieve how something as specific as paired breasts could evolve twice, independently, by pure chance. But in addition to breasts and milk, gargates also have hair, external ears, distinctly mammalian teeth, and flexible lips. Scientists analyze traits such as these to determine the taxonomic position of an organism, and the simplest and most likely explanation of having multiple, highly unique traits in common with mammals is that they share a common ancestor with mammals. Whenever two groups of animals share a large number of highly unique features (such as milk) in common, it is always considered very strong evidence that they share a recent common ancestor.

Given that, and considering that at least one land animal (unrelated to mammals) evolved fin-like wings from absolutely nowhere, I am certain that gargates are closely related to mammals, and like the Coelurosauravus, they evolved wings bones from their skin.

Vaevictis Asmadi
"We're not the last. We're not alone." - Hudson

Thanks for the info on "Bad Guys" #2, Bishansky!
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

GARGOYLES: BAD GUYS #2
By Greg Weisman and Karine Charlebois

The Japanese gargoyle Yama has been banished from Clan Ishimura until such time as his lost honor can be restored. Truly alone for the first time in his long life, he becomes a target of the Hunter, a human who has spent her life training to destroy the gargoyle race. So when Hunter and her new teammates, Dingo & Matrix, catch up to him, Yama is offered no mercy - and a job?

Greg Bishansky

SEPTEMBER 26
This day in Tony's Universe History....

September 26th...

2006
One year anniversary of relationship with now ex-girlfriend Darlene

TiniTinyTony - [tinitinytony hotmail com]
Whenever you set out to do something, something else must be done first.

Wing evolution> The easiest place the third limb set could have emerged is in the aquatic stage. I have no problem with a fish developing another set of fins for enhanced maneuverability in the water, which then became a six-limbed Sarcopterygians (lobe-finned fish) and led to some species of land-dwelling hexapodal vertebrates.

Cartilage> This stuff is pretty flexible, depending on the type. Fibrocartilage is very strong, yet still very flexible. I think that the "arm" bit of a gargoyle wing and the wingclaw(s) is bone, and perhaps even has a bit of bony "finger" for each wing rib, but the rest is cartilage. Brooklyn couldn't have wrapped them around his body to hide them when he rode the motorcycle otherwise. They also don't seem to bend at specific points, but curve along the whole length.

Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth_dragon at hotmail dot com]

At one point in the evolutionary chain, a lizard and a flying squirrel mated, and some kind of 'stone sleeping during the day' curse was put on them as a joke, and they somehow survived.
TiniTinyTony - [tinitinytony hotmail com]
Whenever you set out to do something, something else must be done first.

Development of wings> This is yet another reason I need to record the garg physiology and culture panel, as well as take notes. I'm ashamed to say I can't remember who has been working on a possible taxonomy of gargoyles, but she suggests that somewhere early on in the GARGOYLES universe, there was probably an ancestor that had six limbs, and that over time it evolved and diversified, some succeeding where related others failed, until we got the two garg species we have now. Looked at that way, it more or less resolves the whole mutation from four-limbed organism problem. Mind you, this was a theoretical model, and the details are still being hashed out by herself and others. Matt is one of those with a good theory as well; if he's in the mood, he can explain it. :p
Asatira

Yeah, that dragon was created by magic. Just an enchanted stone statue.
I hope we get to see some real dragons in the comic. Personally, I'd prefer to think that dragons are purely magical beings, instead of animals.

<<Wich could take a looong period of time, say 5 years?>>
Erm, no. Evolution takes millions of years. But I don't think it is possible ~at all~ for an animal to evolve with duplicated arms that are shaped differently from the original arms.

<<Cartilage>> It can't move? I had figured it is more bendy, and stuff, than bone. I guess the wings must just have a lot of joints then, or something.
Sharks have cartilage bones, but then they live in the water, so most of their weight is not supported by the bones anyway.

Vaevictis Asmadi
"We're not the last. We're not alone." - Hudson

Heck! Thats not my avatar :P
Demon@

"As we see on some gargoyles, the wings are part of their arms"

VA is right. Asatira, I think it was, shown that Lexington`s bounds wings come out of his back not his shoulders. The arms and legs only support the membrance along with that other bound

"Blue whales develop so slowly probably because of their size"

True

About the Cicada, there are many insects with strange developments, so I woudnt compare them with any vertebrate Insects and all invertebrates are just too weird :P


"...it would take incredibly weird mutations to cause the wings to develop entirely separately (differently) from the arms. It would require a complete duplication of every single gene involved with the development of the arms, so that the wings had a separate copy of each and every one"

Wich could take a looong period of time, say 5 years?

"I also think gargoyle`s wings must be made of cartilage instead of rigid bone"

In the series too, there are strange bents of the wings, but cartilage cant be moved. Gargoyles woudnt have the movility the do with their wings if it would be cartilage only. And to hold such a huge thing like a gargoyle in the air, it has to have something strong inside.

About the dragons, thas right. We have only seen one...and it exploded in stone when it died O.o So for sure it cant be an animal...but then again Oberon´s Children are part of the three inteligent races and that dragon wasnt pretty smart. Maybe that particual one was created by magic. I will ask Greg about their dragons when he opens to questions again :)


TT: LOL

And looked what I found XD Poor Demona

http://bp2.blogger.com/_gJJFuB2BcJo/Rvpl9xL7cqI/AAAAAAAAASY/2t5PU64V8lU/s1600-h/wrestling.jpg

Demon@

Lexington's father was Rocky the squirrel.
TiniTinyTony - [tinitinytony hotmail com]

Harvester >> It's Vaevictis with 2 Is, no U.

If you look at Lexington's wings, each one is supported not only by an arm and a leg, but also by a central limb, the wing itself.

Vaevictis Asmadi
"We're not the last. We're not alone." - Hudson

*breathes deep and slow*

Ignoring. Just... ignoring.

Matt: I've never found it confusing. A gargoyle born in 2008 is a ten year old gargoyle in 2028.

Vaevictus: Also, as we see on some gargoyles, the wings are part of their arms.

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
Kurtz: "Are you an assassin?" Willard: "I'm a soldier." Kurtz: "You're neither. You're an errand boy, sent here by grocery clerks to collect the bill."

Korrd : And that has to do with what, exactly?
Spen
"Isn't it satisfying to watch your child grow up from a tiny little acorn into a complete nut?" - George Pickard

George Lucas rocks!
korrd - [nimbus225 at yahoo dot com]

Well, we don't know what dragons are. We can't assume they are animals. They may be related to the Third Race, or who knows what.

Personally I don't see why having wings should make gargoyles develop more slowly. I think the stone sleep is probably a big part of it. Blue whales develop so slowly probably because of their size, so I don't know if that is a good direct comparison. There is an insect (the periodical cicada) that takes 17 years to grow into an adult, but that isn't about hatching, and I don't know the reason for the cicadas anyway.

I still don't think that the wings of gargoyles are duplicated arms. Even if they were, it would take incredibly weird mutations to cause the wings to develop entirely separately (differently) from the arms. It would require a complete duplication of every single gene involved with the development of the arms, so that the wings had a separate copy of each and every one.

There is an example of an animal (a reptile, so not a relative of gargates) which had an entire set of limbs that grew from completely new bones. I read about it online, but haven't gotten around to mentioning it yet. This is Coelurosauravus, which resembled the flying lizards. But unlike them, it's wings were not supported by its ribs. Instead, completely new bones had developed in the skin, basically from nowhere, and grown into multiple long, slender bone rods to support the wing membranes.

There's an article about it here, which I haven't read yet...
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/275/5305/1450

I also think gargoyle wings must be made of cartilage instead of rigid bone, I mean, look at that nasty break to Goliath's wing in Issue #2, that healed so quickly. But that's a separate issue.

Vaevictis Asmadi
"We're not the last. We're not alone." - Hudson

About the gargoyles taking so long to hatch, probably its because they seem to be a very well evolved species. They have characteristics no other vertebrates have, like six members instead of four, the turning to stone feature. Also, having in mind that the fetus turns to stone inside the shell, would mean they take 5 years. There are some other creatures that take a very long time to born (mammals and other vertebrates) like the blue whale (is that how you call it?) wich babies take 2 years to born.
I was wondering, maybe gargoyles shoudnt be considered, as we normally do, like the only vertebrates with six members, for in their universe (¿?) there are also dragons, wich have six members too.

Demon@

I'm curious... If I submitted a wallpaper, how long would it usually take for it to be available to everyone? I just started creating wallpapers after discovering that the logos are available to use... :D
The One Known As Mochi - [rolandsteinert at hotmail dot com]

That's Colossal Comic #4. Have that one as well. Kept a few Disney Adventures.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]

Sorry.

COMICS> The ONLY comics I read are the big "Essentails" marvel books, Vol. 1 & 2. of the X-men right now... #1-51 I think. Classic, 1960's X-Men.

Also, I read the Transformers comics. 1980's and 2000's.

As for Disney, I read mostly the ones in DISNEY ADVENTURES mags.

They also had a set called colossal comics which were all disney Comics. The First issue was Dark-Wing Duck Episode #1 parts one and two.

Battle Beast - [wlukinuk at telus dot net]
That is all I will say.

TTT> How old were you when you were born?
Battle Beast - [wlukinuk at telus dot net]
Lee Harvey Oswald? LIke Bull. Watch JFK AND THEN proove to me that there WASN'T a second gunman. You CAN'T.

I have many Scrooge/Donald/Ducktales comics. They were great. I grew up reading Scrooge and Donald comics my dad passed down to me. I love those.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'

Aside from Gargoyles, has anyone here read other comics published by Disney? Whenever I have money to spare, I've purchased a few Uncle Scrooge comics for 50 cents. I have the following TPBs:

The Life And Times Of Scrooge McDuck
The Life And Times Of Scrooge McDuck Companion
Carl Bark's Greatest Ducktales Stories Volume 1-2

The Ducktales trades don't contain Ducktales comics but the Carl Barks stories adapted into episodes. My favorite stories between the two volumes are "Back To The Klondike", "Micro Ducks From Outer Space" and "The Status Seeker".

Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]

Oops, ignore that-meant to post it in the chat room. my bad.
That's what insomnia does to you

Wingless

*Reposts Kess's link-since it has a comma instead of a period*
*Hugs Kess*

Wingless

I stopped worrying about the whole gargoyle years to human years thing a long time ago. It works sometimes, but mostly it's a headache and causes a ton of confusion. Artus hatches in 2018, so in 2024 he'll be six years old. He'll be a six year old GARGOYLE. Most likely, his development will be right around where all gargoyles are at age six. In 1996, the Trio is 1038 years old. Now 1000 of that was the sleep spell, so lets just say they are 38 years old. They clearly don't parallel a 38 year old human, and dividing that in half (19) puts us nearer where we think they are in human terms, so that works nicely, but wih younger gargs, I think it's a mess.
So I just ignore the whole half a gargoyles age thing and just know that gargoyles reach their first breeding season when they are 50 years old, the next when they are 70 years old, and the last when they are 90 years old. They begin reaching physical and emotional maturity during the 30-50 ages, 10-30 are children and 0-10 are infants. They can live possibly to 200 years. Isn't that easier?

Beasts have a different cycle entirely.

Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'

Greg has said that it takes them time to learn to walk and glide, but he doesn't know how much time.

We do know that they already have teeth when they hatch (unlike mammals, most of which start out toothless) and that must be hard on the mothers! Maybe the incisors come in later, after weening.

Vaevictis Asmadi
"We're not the last. We're not alone." - Hudson

Ok, when he hatches can he walk and fly almost immediately or is that not known? According to the GargWiki, he will need to be breastfed. So if he's tiny enough to fit in your arms and feed him, why are the eggs so big? How much does an infant gargoyle weigh? If he's born in 2018, how old is he in 2024? Is he consider only three years old or six?
TiniTinyTony - [tinitinytony hotmail com]

In the archive, Greg says that developmentally gargoyles are a little ahead of humans at birth, but not by much (they can lift their heads up without additional neck support). So when they hatch, they're still infants, both by age and development standards.
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth_dragon at hotmail dot com]

TTT>"So when Artus is born, is he actually 5 years old in Gargoyle terms?"
Uh, no. Just like everyone else, when you're born, you're zero years old. You begin counting your age from when you were born, not when you were conceived. Otherwise we'd all be nine months older.

Phil - [p1anderson at go dot com]

Tony-I think he would be considered an infant when he hatches. Time in the egg doesn't acutally count when considereing how old a gargoyle is.

I've always wondered why it took them so long to develop in the egg though.

and yeah, I couldn't get on this morning also. I thought it was just me.

Purplegoldfish - [Skydragonn at aol dot com]

Well, everything seems fine now, maybe it was a fluke.
* * *

So I was looking at the TimeLine and did a research to see that Artus is conceived in 2007, but doesn't hatch until around (March 30) 2008. Then 10 years later, he finally hatches!

How old is Artus when he hatches? 10 years old?

BTW, what's the age conversion for Gargoyles and humans? Half? So when Artus is born, is he actually 5 years old in Gargoyle terms/10 years old in human terms?

TiniTinyTony - [tinitinytony hotmail com]

I had the same problem logging on last night too. For me, it was just before 1 AM but a few minutes after I had submitted a wallpaper that I created... Hopefully my wallpaper got through before the site became unavailable...
The One Known As Mochi - [rolandsteinert at hotmail dot com]

I had problems getting on one morning a few weeks back, but not recently. How early did you try to get on?
TiniTinyTony - [tinitinytony hotmail com]

So does anybody know why the site was down for a couple of hours this morning?
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

After getting some delivery failures, I've decided to post here:
To anyone who has links to other Gargoyles sites, and my site is one of them, please remove my site since I finally decided to shut it down for a few reasons.

Blaqthourne & Crimson Fury

Todd> I've been watching it, enjoying it very much. And yes, Keith is the main narrator for the series (there are co-narrators, including Tom Hanks).
Asatira

Tony: Lol! Ah skip the presents, I'll just take him ;)
Purplegoldfish - [Skydragonn at aol dot com]

Todd> I didn't see it, but according to IMDB (http://imdb.com/title/tt0996994/) it was indeed.

Wow, feels like I've been away from here forever. Trying to remedy that in the near future...

Kaylle

Happy birthday, Demonskrye!

I don't know how many people here watched "The War" on PBS last night, but I'm more than half-certain that the narrator was Keith David.

Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

Happy one, Demonskyre!

Damn, I wasn't around and missed the discussion on Manhattan-clan-members-yet-to-be. My responses:

If we cut out the whole "twins" angle and made the childrens' designs more visually distinct from each other, I'd take the TGS designs for Brooklyn's nuclear family over the ones posted by Rita M. I prefer green to white, and would have liked to see a beaked female character.

Gargoyles in jeans have never looked right to me either. Heck, gargoyles in any sort of really modern, casual garb, outside of Halloween, look weird to me.

As for Lexington having offspring, I'm guessing the characters were thought up before Greg W revealed Lexington's sexuality, and fandom went the path of common assumption in the meantime. It's weird to look at older fanworks and read about Lexington having a female mate and kids, like seeing London gargs who look like another sort of animal before the canonical pattern was established for the whole clan.

I'm glad to hear about the comic's release date. It'd be better to have it for September, but at least it's not delayed too much....

Incisivis - [incisivis at hotmail dot com]
"No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream" -- Shirley Jackson

Happy birthday, Demonskrye.

Now, I'm interested to see what happens on mine.

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Shut your noise-hole, taco human!" -Invader Zim

Happy birthday!!

In my birthday all my family was wearing black and crying, screaming "why us?!"

Demon@

Happy Birthday Demonskyre!
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'

Here's what will happen on your birthday:
August 6
2008
Goliath is briefly forced into hiding presents for Purplegoldfish before she comes home from work and sees them unwrapped.

TiniTinyTony - [tinitinytony hotmail com]

Happy Birthday Demonskrye!

Here's what happened on my birthday:
August 6
2004
Goliath is briefly forced into hiding.

ooh, mysterious ;). I wonder why only Goliath goes into hiding and not the rest of the clan.

Comic-well, I'm glad we have the date now. It's a delay but it isn't nearly as bad as the other delays we've had

Purplegoldfish - [Skydragonn at aol dot com]

TTT> As Kerry Boyd pointed out, it can vary widely, depending on the complexity of the page, the speed of the artist, the style the artist is using, and other factors. "Bad Guys" is going to be balck and white, so the coloring time is cut, but I don't think we know if it's going to be inked or scanned directly from the pencils like the main book is. All we really know is that it's in the penciling stage right now (or as of two days ago). But if Disney takes roughly a month on average to approve the comics, I'm not sure if we'll see "Bad Guys" in October.

kitsuneopal> I doubt it. "Limited series" just means that it's not an ongoing series like "Gargoyles". It's meant to run for a finite number of issue, then end. Most limited series in comics have issues the same length as a regular comic issues. There are some exceptions, but I think that might cancel out the attempt to save money by doing the comic in black and white.

Demonskrye

Since Bad Guys is a limited edition series, will it be longer than a standard size comic?
kitsuneopal - [superducknts at netscape dot net]

Tony> Depending on complexity, a comic could take anywhere from one to several hours per page to pencil. Then it'd need to get sent to the inker, and the inking would take at least that long, perhaps more. It doesn't always look like it'd take that long, but comic artists almost always work bigger than the final size to make sure to fit everything in properly and do decent detailing.
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth_dragon at hotmail dot com]

How long does it take to "pencil" a comic?
TiniTinyTony - [tinitinytony hotmail com]

KingCobra_582: According to Greg W on September 22nd
"Bad Guys #1 has been written and roughed and is being pencilled and finished now. (Keep in mind, it's a black and white book.)"

Wingless

Tony> If Bad Guys #1 has already been finished and Disney has approved it, then yeah, we will.

Though this is just speculating. Anyone know if this has already happened?

KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Thirty-Six. Nine.

HB, Demonskrye!
* * *
So anyone think there is a good chance we'll still get Bad Guys #1 in October?

TiniTinyTony - [tinitinytony hotmail com]

Happy Birthday! *grabs cake*
Vaevictis Asmadi
"We're not the last. We're not alone." - Hudson

Demonskrye> Happy birthday! *throws confetti*
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth_dragon at hotmail dot com]

Happy birthday, Demonskyre.
Asatira

New TDiGUH confirms that most of "Lighthouse" happens on my birthday. Please enjoy the virtual version of my chocolate with buttercream frosting cake in celebration of both evens.
Demonskrye

Greg's note on the comic delay is interesting. He blames Hyena. I wonder if that's just a random joke, or if Hyena makes an unexpected appearance in this issue and does something that Disney's publishing equivalent of S&P disapproves of. It must be pretty bad, since Thailog got away with stabbing Goliath in the gut and slashing every other member of the clan... The anticipation grows!
Phil - [p1anderson at go dot com]

Awwwww.... Maybe you'll get something in addition to it.
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth_dragon at hotmail dot com]

Hahaha
Demon@

Jurgan just told me that the new comic is scheduled to come out on my birthday! The bad news is I know what he's getting me now...
Jurgan - [raven_mccloud2002 at yahoo dot com]
Zim: "You're nothing Earth boy! Go home and shave your giant head of smell with your bad self! Dib: Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said."

13th!
Ed

And away we go on with the show!
Vinnie - [tpeano29 at hotmail dot com]
It's silly. It's a silly movie. There just isn't much there. Once you take it all apart, there's not much story, is there?- George Lucas on Spider-Man 3

That was a fast 10.

Well, this one goes up to 11.

Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]

Tenth and last.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Thirty-Six. Nine.

Ninth!
Spen
"Isn't it satisfying to watch your child grow up from a tiny little acorn into a complete nut?" - George Pickard

Made it in the first ten posts... :D

Can't wait for the next issue to be released...

The One Known As Mochi - [rolandsteinert at hotmail dot com]

7th in the name of issue #7 coming out by the end of this year.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?

Its going by fast this evening

SIIIIIIX!

_______

fifth!
Asatira

fourth
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1 at sbcglobal dot net]
Video games are my cocaine!

third!
Purplegoldfish - [Skydragonn at aol dot com]

1st!
TiniTinyTony - [tinitinytony hotmail com]
"What you're passionate about, from a cartoon standpoint, has to do with what age you were when you very first saw it." ~Greg Weisman

hey, First!^_^
Starlioness