Comment Room Archive : Gargoyles : Station Eight

POSSIBLE SPOILER-LIKE THOUGHTS (though at this point, I think just about everyone coming the Room knows about what little I am revealing below whether they've read the comic or not)

I think Greg will write that the baby will be a Mutate, however in real world terms (as real world as you can get talking about this sorta thing), I think the baby would turn out pretty much 100% human. The blood-testis barrier and the fact that all human eggs are formed long before sexual maturity means that both gametes should be just plain old human cells... Like I said though, I think the baby will be written as a Mutate, and thats alright, surely when we are in such an ambiguous area of science fiction it isn't hard to find explanations for why things happen.

It occurs to me that the reason Greg calls the Mutates "mutates" is because the were not BORN mutants, they were MUTATEd later in life. So under those terms, would a mutate child of Talon and Maggie be a Mutate or a Mutant?

This has also caused me to wonder about the Mutate transformation process as well. I think it seems likely that the mutation formula was designed to affect stem cells only. So no other human cells were directly mutated, but only the stem cells creating new cells for the body. This explains why the transformation took some time, even weeks. Take the skin for example, when Derek was injected, he didn't immediatly start sprouting black hair, it took time for his human skin and hair cells to be replaced by the mutated stem cells.

Just a thought though, I'm not a doctor, just a student of evolutionary biology.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'
posted @ Sun, Dec 16, 2007 1:22:10 pm EST from 24.207.163.239

VA> I know they have spots too. :P I just couldn't find something that said the rosette gene and the melanistic gene weren't linked. So if they're different genes, it'd make sense to still have a "normally marked" leopon and I don't have to be confused anymore. LOL
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth-dragon at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Sun, Dec 16, 2007 1:12:16 pm EST from 24.98.74.35

PATRICK >> Hmm, that is interesting. Thanks.

KERRY >> But the gene for rosettes is separate from the gene for background color. Black leopards and jaguars have spots as well, but they are so difficult to see because the background is almost as dark.
Vaevictis Asmadi
"We're not the last. We're not alone." - Hudson
posted @ Sun, Dec 16, 2007 1:07:40 pm EST from 209.162.56.40

SPOILERS (SORT OF)

<<But in that case their reproductive organs would have different genes than the rest of the body, and the body would reject the organs as foreign. If they are still fertile, it guarantees that their reproductive organs were affected. The question is whether Maggie's eggs were changed, since female humans are born with their eggs already basically formed.>>

Even without a mutation, the body of a male could have an autoimmune reaction against its own sperm. There's a barrier present in the testes that prevents that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood-testis_barrier
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line!" - Vizzini, "The Princess Bride"
posted @ Sun, Dec 16, 2007 1:01:32 pm EST from 76.241.137.12

Vaevictis> Okay, I guess I'm asking how could you end up with rosettes if the gene that includes the rosette pattern has the dark color as the background as well? Maybe just full spots instead?
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth-dragon at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Sun, Dec 16, 2007 1:00:14 pm EST from 24.98.74.35

SPOILERISH

I'd think if the melanism gene is recessive, it will only be expressed if there are two of them together. Which means that an offspring shouldn't have a black background color unless it receives two such genes, one from each parent. Tawny color in lions is dominant and there are no confirmed black lions, so dominant tawny X recessive black should give a tawny background color.

In regards to jaguar-lion hybrids, dominant tawny X dominant black could result in incomplete dominance, or one gene might be more dominant than the other. I've never heard of jaguars being crossed directly with lions.

SPOILERISH
Vaevictis Asmadi
"We're not the last. We're not alone." - Hudson
posted @ Sun, Dec 16, 2007 12:49:12 pm EST from 209.162.56.40

Sorry for the double post. If a jaguar had been used, it's possible that there's one gene for black and one for normal, so it could go either way in that case depending on the exact composition of the genotype.
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth-dragon at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Sun, Dec 16, 2007 12:41:34 pm EST from 24.98.74.35

Vaevictis> But the only way recessive genes can be visually expressed is through having two of them, which means that's the only one Talon can pass on. It looks like in leopons color dominance is incomplete, so both get expressed, but Talon's genes would code for black on black... so perhaps there'd be a tawny color that shades into a brown with barely visible brown markings (or a similar version with black instead).
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth-dragon at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Sun, Dec 16, 2007 12:38:48 pm EST from 24.98.74.35

SPOILERS BELOW
The term "black panther" almost always refers to black leopards. There is no separate "panther" species.

<<In leopards, the black gene is recessive, so unfortunately the baby probably won't have much in the way of the interesting patterns a leopon presents.>>
Actually, since the black gene is recessive, the background color of the offspring will be the dominant tawny color, allowing the spots to show through. Plus lion cubs are spotted anyway. A leopon is born spotted, and the spots on the body become indistinct and brown as it grows up, while those on the head, tail, belly, and legs remain distinct and black. Males develop small manes.
The melanism gene is dominant in black jaguars, so if jaguar genes were used instead of leopard genes, then the offspring would be black-furred or brown-furred.

<<There's also the chance that what Sevarius did to Talon and Maggie's DNA didn't affect their reproductive organs, in which case the baby might be a normal human.>>
But in that case their reproductive organs would have different genes than the rest of the body, and the body would reject the organs as foreign. If they are still fertile, it guarantees that their reproductive organs were affected. The question is whether Maggie's eggs were changed, since female humans are born with their eggs already basically formed.

But I wonder if it is still possible for them to have a human child anyway. I was reading about mules, and I learned that female mules can have pure horse offspring if they mate with a male horse. Apparently the donkey and horse genes in a mule are kept separate within each cell, and only the horse genes are passed along when a fertile mule reproduces.

SPOILERS ABOVE
Vaevictis Asmadi
"We're not the last. We're not alone." - Hudson
posted @ Sun, Dec 16, 2007 11:49:03 am EST from 209.162.56.40

ZOMG SPOILERS

What's wrong with pigs? Kermit the Frog certainly has no complaints.

There's also the chance that what Sevarius did to Talon and Maggie's DNA didn't affect their reproductive organs, in which case the baby might be a normal human.

END SPOILERS

Gathering 2008 Reminder: Registration prices increase starting the 1st of January, so there's no better time to pre-register than right now.

194 days left until The Gathering 2008 in Chicago, Illinois!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line!" - Vizzini, "The Princess Bride"
posted @ Sun, Dec 16, 2007 9:47:33 am EST from 76.241.137.12

Phoenician> A black panther *is* a leopard. It's just hypermelanistic - the skin and hair produces more pigment than usual, so it appears black. In sunlight, you can see the faint leopard markings, kind of like the pattern on watered silk. (technically, there are also black jaguars and cougars, but Talon mostly resembles a leopard in head shape)

In leopards, the black gene is recessive, so unfortunately the baby probably won't have much in the way of the interesting patterns a leopon presents. He may be brown instead of black, or have a brown torso that shades to black on his head, spine, arms and legs (echoing the leopon's brown/black marking patterns).
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth-dragon at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Sun, Dec 16, 2007 8:46:47 am EST from 24.98.74.35

TTT> I think you're missing the point. Brooklyn's problem at this point is that he's attracted to any female with wings, not so much regardless of appearance as regardless of personality. Far more than the boar-goyle (who I happen to think is a great design and an nice departure from the slender humanoid look of most female gargoyles), I think the ultimate symbol of Brooklyn's desperation is Maggie, who he pursued before he even really knew her and later in spite of the fact that she clearly didn't return his affections, and on top of it all, she wasn't even a gargoyle. I think the change that will happen once Brooklyn reaches feudal Japan will be in part due to the maturity that he's gained on his travels so far and in part due to the fact that he'll probably be spending time with a whole clan of gargoyles. This will allow him not to pick the one he thinks is the prettiest, but to develop a real relationship with Katana and eventually want her for his mate because they are compatible on multiple levels. Right now, due to the scarcity of female gargoyles in his immediate area, Brooklyn is just desperate for a mate, any mate. But the boar-goyle hardly seems to represent the height of desperation to me. On top of which, she could well already be the mate of the stag-goyle, making the whole issue a moot point.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Sun, Dec 16, 2007 8:06:42 am EST from 209.6.248.33

Thanks.

Can't do it right now,(work awaits) but will when I get home.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Sun, Dec 16, 2007 7:17:39 am EST from 75.60.190.3

KING COBRA - Just deleted it. You can post a revised review now.

PHOENICIAN - Sorry, but I had to delete your "Bad Guys" review again - you made the mistake of including a speculation (once more) about the Tazmanian Tiger joining the Ultra-Pack.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Sun, Dec 16, 2007 7:12:35 am EST from 4.244.213.115

Todd Jensen> Thanks.

If it isn't any problem, just notify me when you clear it and I'll upload the perfected (final) #7 review.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Sun, Dec 16, 2007 7:07:59 am EST from 75.60.190.3

KING COBRA - Sorry, I haven't gotten around to clearing the last few questions in the queue yet.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Sun, Dec 16, 2007 6:21:57 am EST from 4.244.213.115

I too have noticed that the fandom has Xanatos reforming too quickly.

If I were in charge, it would be years before Xanatos becomes a true friend of the clan.
Michael Ejercito - [mejercit at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Sun, Dec 16, 2007 2:01:11 am EST from 75.142.107.43

Phoenician> It is my understanding that, a panther is simply a leopard with black fur, like essentially there genetic structure is identical...
Justin - [jlindley07 at gmail dot com]
posted @ Sun, Dec 16, 2007 1:37:55 am EST from 74.135.61.121

Todd> Is my review still on Ask Greg?

I'd check myself, but my computer's being weird for some reason.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Sun, Dec 16, 2007 1:03:55 am EST from 75.60.190.3

Thanks Todd -- Who knows, maybe I just forgot to submit to Ask Greg (I know I compeletely forgot to write a review for #6 altogether, in the CR and in the queue). I'll check out my review in the archives here and I guess I'll (re)submit it . . . after rereading it, of course.

VA: I would have considered Talon to look more like a panther than anything else, so I'm kinda confused how a lion-leopard looking baby would make sense.

London Clan: I'm hoping for some more heraldic animals, and I'm also hoping for some mixing. Variety is the spice of life, afterall (which is good philosophy when considering attractiveness, Tony)
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Sun, Dec 16, 2007 12:54:00 am EST from 70.162.221.121

Oops I meant to say lepon, not leopard. A lepon is a lion-leopard cross.
Vaevictis Asmadi
"We're not the last. We're not alone." - Hudson
posted @ Sat, Dec 15, 2007 10:48:09 pm EST from 209.162.56.40

I hope that if Maggie and Talon's kid is a mutant, that it will look like a humanoid Leopard (which is a lion-leopard cross).

And I'm dearly hoping that some of the London Clan look like hybrids instead of perfect replicas of animals.

I hope that more of the Ishimura Clan have beaks. In Bushido we only saw one with a beak, but in myth the Tengu usually have raven-like faces.
Vaevictis Asmadi
"We're not the last. We're not alone." - Hudson
posted @ Sat, Dec 15, 2007 10:47:04 pm EST from 209.162.56.40

Tony: "I'm glad Brooklyn didn't go to London. He would have finally got to meet a female gargoyles and it would have turned out that she's a pig. But then we could have seen how desperate Brooklyn really is."

Your shallowness is astounding.

Maybe Brooklyn would LIKE "hunting for truffles" with a pig lady. In fact, I think he'd quite enjoy it - provided she was a suitable companion for him in other, less superficial ways. :P
The Sadistic Cow
I believe the children are our future... unless we stop them NOW!
posted @ Sat, Dec 15, 2007 10:46:07 pm EST from 24.150.120.87

PHOENICIAN - Unfortunately, I can't recall your specific review at present. I know I had to delete a couple of questions about "Bad Guys" #1 that contained too much speculation about the Tazmanian Tiger's future role in the series (including whether he'd join the Ultra-Pack); maybe that was one of them.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Sat, Dec 15, 2007 10:37:05 pm EST from 4.244.209.3

Sorry, I meant pre-"finished mutation" not pre-mutation when referring to Maggie's old design. Agh.
Incisivis - [incisivis at hotmail dot com]
"No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream" -- Shirley Jackson
posted @ Sat, Dec 15, 2007 10:09:45 pm EST from 216.36.154.204

SPOILERS
******

I really loved this issue. There's so much going on, and I can't wait to see how it pays off.

The telling of the story in nonlinear fashion was something I didn't see the point of. I guess Greg is stretching his wings, and finds it fun and interesting, but for me it was...eh.

Of course Xanatos would be up to something. It's so obvious that he would, I just wonder why the fandom didn't get it.

I was expecting the other members of the London Clan to be variants on the Big Three, but I guess if you have gargoyles that already strongly resemble humanoid animals, might as well do whatever, it's not going to make much sense no matter what you do. Some hybrids of the clear animal styles would be cool, though.

Macbeth didn't swear on the Stone in the TV show, true, but his line is exactly the same as in that episode, so it does seem like an error before you think about it a little.

The little green gargoyle from Demona's Clan is a fan-favourite? Neat. I liked the designs for that group, since I'm fond of beaked gargoyles, but honestly I liked the turquoise one the best. He looks so adorable.

I'd still prefer to see a non-London female with a snout, since the London Clan can't help *but* have them, but a humanoid boar is less stereotypical than a humanoid unicorn (though Una was pretty awesome characterwise). If the character is treated with some respect (and given what Greg did with Broadway, I expect that), it will be cool.

I'm expecting Katana to be humanoid, though, given that most of the Ishimura clan *are*. Though the characterization of Brooklyn as a sort of ladies' man leads me to believe that gargoyles certainly don't have human standards of beauty, and don't consider the humanoid ones more attractive.

I don't feel sorry for Brooklyn. He's being too pouty here.

Also, Maggie isn't literally a "cat" as in domestic cat, she's a lioness; the nickname is a reference to Cat on a Hot Tin Roof. Though with those bunny ears, she looks more like a caracal, and pre-mutated, she resembled a male lion. Weird. (I'm not picking on you, just that Maggie's design doesn't look particularly leonine and that bugs me)

As to what their child will look like, I have no predictions. It's sci-fi science, could go anywhere.

The art is nicer to look at, but there's still a lot of errors. I hope this is an upward trend.

*****
SPOILERS
Incisivis - [incisivis at hotmail dot com]
"No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream" -- Shirley Jackson
posted @ Sat, Dec 15, 2007 10:08:07 pm EST from 216.36.154.204

And an important thing to remember is gargoyles are not humans, they have different and more open concepts of what is beautiful. That's what I love about them. And I'm glad to have a female that isn't merely a human with superficial features.
Asatira
posted @ Sat, Dec 15, 2007 9:43:44 pm EST from 97.82.58.208

Yeah seriously ... you're being very offensive. There is absolutely nothing whatsoever wrong with dating a woman who isn't a stick figure. Nothing wrong with dating an ugly woman. We have personalities, you know. I'd rather date a man who liked my personality than one who only cared about my boobs and butt. I am not an object to ogle at nor an object to criticize for physical flaws. I am a person.
Vaevictis Asmadi
"We're not the last. We're not alone." - Hudson
posted @ Sat, Dec 15, 2007 8:56:52 pm EST from 209.162.56.40

Besides, the offical DVD are more worth the money as I'm guessing most downloads are from Toon Disney, thus censored. Where the official releases are unedited.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Sat, Dec 15, 2007 8:38:48 pm EST from 71.115.192.199

Bob -- When you fly in a plane across several time zones, the result is that your body is no longer in sync with the timezone you have traveled too (a natural event as a reuslt of the plane's speed). It's usually recommended that you stay awake until you're actually tired along with the locals, so that it'll be easier to adjust to the current time zone.

Todd -- I'm too am curious if something was 'funny' about my Bad Guys Review, as I didn't see it get answered . . . . .
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Sat, Dec 15, 2007 8:30:23 pm EST from 70.162.221.121

Semi-Spoilers:

Jet lag: It's when you cross time boundaries when you travel overseas by plane and you lose or gain time. I can relate. I had a major case of jetlag once when I travelled from Guam (I lived there when my dad was in the Navy-it's actually wehre I watched most of the gargoyles eps for the first time) back to the states. I literally lost a day-and it was July 4th, lol. We left on the third and landed on the 5th, there was never any 4th. It was very weird.

Tony- that's actually really insulting to women. Most of us aren't playboy bunny types. And if a man is with a woman who isn't super hot, it's not because he's "desperate" , it's because she has a good personality and is a match to him. That's an incredibally shallow way of thinking. I doubt many guys here think that that sow gargoyle is particularly attractive-but maybe to some of the gargoyles (or her mate), she is.

Ugh, it's stupid shallow thinking like that that lead women to develop eating disorders and self esteem issues.

And BTW, I kind of hope that Katana won't be OMG HOT! True love transcends physical differences-I think that message is made pretty clear on the show.
Purplegoldfish - [Skydragonn at aol dot com]
posted @ Sat, Dec 15, 2007 8:24:40 pm EST from 69.183.34.195

SPOILERS

what is jet lag?
Can't wait to read #7
bob
bob
posted @ Sat, Dec 15, 2007 7:35:49 pm EST from 66.202.98.169

Matt: What were you expecting from someone who thinks homosexuality is a choice?
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Teamwork is so overrated." -Thailog
posted @ Sat, Dec 15, 2007 7:34:50 pm EST from 71.62.198.251

Geee, thats maturity right there, folks.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'
posted @ Sat, Dec 15, 2007 5:31:40 pm EST from 24.207.163.239

CAUTION Spoilers

I'm glad Brooklyn didn't go to London. He would have finally got to meet a female gargoyles and it would have turned out that she's a pig. But then we could have seen how desperate Brooklyn really is.
TiniTinyTony <The Gargoyles Pulse>
<The Gargoyles Pulse> - up to date as of 12/10/07
posted @ Sat, Dec 15, 2007 5:25:00 pm EST from 70.15.84.29

Okay, now for something serious:

ISSUE #7 SPOILERS.
First off, right from the get-go, the story reaches out and grabs you. It's barely been forty-eight hours since Thailog crashed the party, and some of the clan are accompanying Macbeth to Europe. It was great how Macbeth appealed to Goliath, too. He pretty much summed it up: Xanatos is their landlord. Nothing more. So needless to say, it was also great to see him working behind Goliath's back in this one.

Heck, as we see, he hadn't changed that much even as far back as "Possession". Coldfire and Coldsteel were still his creations, so it would stand to reason that he'd add something to their construction which would allow him to "call" one of them. Can't wait to see what his plan is, as well as the Society's interest in the Stone.

The cutscenes to Thailog and his crew were also interesting. It will be interesting to see how that ties in. Shari is a nine, so she probably has some knowledge of Xanatos's assignment. Thailog and Brentwood are digging for something.

It was also interesting to see a gargoyle's reaction to jet lag, especially since I think that's been a topic of discussion in Station 8 before. So I too have to wonder if they got to see the sun before they adjusted. Especially since Hudson made a remark in "The Mirror" stating that he'd like to see it, just once.

And the gargoyles at the end were quite a shocker. It's nice to finally see a more full-figured female among their kind.

As far as the art is concerned, I thought Hedgecock was getting better (despite the fact that he's still grappling with conveying emotions on close-ups of the faces, and a lot of humans still look like they're stoned), and then I got to the page where Goliath and Elisa have their talk. His drawing of the dimensions there prevented that moment from being perfect. So he's still learning. The coloring, however, is a lot better. I think Bevard definitely handles shadows a lot better than the last colorist (within the comic itself, I mean).

Overall, this issue was a hell of a fun ride loaded with a lot of neat little twists. Can't wait to read more.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Teamwork is so overrated." -Thailog
posted @ Sat, Dec 15, 2007 5:00:31 pm EST from 71.62.198.251

Vaevictis is right, if you pay to watch "Hunter's Moon" you are not only screwing the Gargoyles franchise and the fandom, you are screwing yourself. Go watch it on YouTube.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'
posted @ Sat, Dec 15, 2007 4:45:48 pm EST from 24.207.163.239

Alexandra >> The episodes that aren't on DVD are available online for free, you might as well not pay for them. That thief who's charging money for them isn't offering anything of higher quality than those downloads. Plus if you bought from them, you're supporting and helping a thief who's ripping off of Gargoyles.

Also, we don't want to encourage ANYONE in the Comment Room to buy those bootlegs of Season One and Season Two, Volume 1, or encourage other fans to think the bootleg is legitimate.
Vaevictis Asmadi
"We're not the last. We're not alone." - Hudson
posted @ Sat, Dec 15, 2007 3:08:11 pm EST from 209.162.56.40

Gre B, I'm sorry for not getting that you intended that more humorously than i read it. Sometimes certain types of humor get a little lost in the translation to text, but mea culpa.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Sat, Dec 15, 2007 2:39:56 pm EST from 209.6.248.33

Greg B: I agree with Demonskrye. Smoking pot is, in a sense, DOING something something. ( ;

Demonskrye: Have a brownie. ( ;
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"F**cking with dopeheads. It's really not that difficult."
posted @ Sat, Dec 15, 2007 1:50:07 pm EST from 71.62.198.251

Jack-Pumpkinhead> Thanks man. Honestly, I wish I had access to better quality pics and/or the ability to pull them off the DVDs. There are lots of gargoyles in Ishimura and Avalon that I'd leave to feature on those Clan's pages. Anyway, thanks again.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'
posted @ Sat, Dec 15, 2007 1:21:53 pm EST from 24.207.163.239

OK, so I have willingly spoiled #7 for myslef (I wont actually read it until I go home in a couple of weeks), But I am glad to see further support for my theory of Shari=Scheherezade. And if I were Talon, I would make darn sure the mutate baby is kept a secret. I mean, if Sevarius ever found out...
I also finally have the time to thank Matt for getting screenshots of the other members in all the clans who were not prominently featured in the series (i.e. the fishy-looking Avalon member).
Jack-Pumpkinhead - [jtjgundam at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Sat, Dec 15, 2007 1:13:17 pm EST from 216.64.60.222

Demonskrye> It was a joke.
Greg Bishansky
"Well, you could make a case that the world has already ended. That art is dead. That we're exhausted. That instead of art, we have… pop culture, daytime TV, gay senior citizens, women that have been raped by their dentists, confiding in Oprah. An exploration in depth of why women cut off their husband's penis."
posted @ Sat, Dec 15, 2007 12:55:18 pm EST from 75.56.245.4

Battle Beast> Well, if you want to count having a psychopath and a sociopath hailing from your country as a win, then indeed, score for Canada. :)

Alexandra> If you have indeed bought 27 copies each of the legitimate Season One and Season Two Part One discs, then yes, I'd say you've done your part. But there are probably much cheaper ways to get the remainder of Season Two (and "The Journey" and even the entirety of TGC if you want it). If you've already bought several copies of the legitimate releases, then no, you aren't directly hurting sales be picking this up in addition. But you are supporting someone who is profiting from selling illegal copies of other people's work, much of which is available in legitimate release. And when other people buy only the bootleg set from this person, who is probably not at all interested in telling his customers that Season One and half of Season Two are available in stores, that DOES hurt the chances of Season Two Part Two coming out.

Greg B> My, my. Stereotypical much? Much as I may feel that (from what little I've seen) the portrayal of the P.I.T. Crew in TGC was rather silly, I strongly object to the idea that in real life, such people would necessarily be ineffectual and drug addled. I know quite a few people who choose to voice their discontent with various issues through protest and your characterization seems pretty far from the truth to me. Given that "Gargoyles" has always been good about showing a variety of viewpoints rather than assuming a groupthink on the part of any species, I'm guessing that some people who support gargoyle rights may go the route of protest and political action to try to effect change rather than engaging in physical combat. I imagine they'll do so in more sensible and effective ways than what we saw from the P.I.T. Crew on TGC, bur I don't doubt that they will still exist. Saying that it's more realistic to show a group that protests on behalf of gargoyles as pot smoking do-nothings is in my mind a bit to close to that genius who wrote in to Ask Greg a few months ago asking why Greg chose to show non-caucasian races as police officers and doctors when it would be so much more "realistic" to show them as criminals, and I KNOW you're several thousand times smarter than that guy.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Sat, Dec 15, 2007 12:49:33 pm EST from 209.6.248.33

A month seems to be about right for Jackal and Hyena to get used to their cybernetic implants.

I wonder how long it took for Wolf to undergo his metamorphosis.
Michael Ejercito - [mejercit at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Sat, Dec 15, 2007 12:17:02 pm EST from 75.142.107.43

Phil, if you remember the episode itself, it did say "One month later".
Greg Bishansky
"Well, you could make a case that the world has already ended. That art is dead. That we're exhausted. That instead of art, we have… pop culture, daytime TV, gay senior citizens, women that have been raped by their dentists, confiding in Oprah. An exploration in depth of why women cut off their husband's penis."
posted @ Sat, Dec 15, 2007 12:00:42 pm EST from 75.56.245.4

This Day in Gargoyles Universe History> So it took just less than a month to cyborgify Jackal and Hyena? It seems like it would take longer than that to recover from such a surgery.
Phil - [p1anderson at go dot com]
posted @ Sat, Dec 15, 2007 11:48:30 am EST from 70.236.218.230

Has anyone noticed that difference in Gargoyle teeth?
Goliath, Demona, and Angela seem to only have big K9s
while others like Brooklyn have all sharp teeth.
Talk about an interesting find. ^_^
Estella
Watch out for rolling tomatoes!
posted @ Sat, Dec 15, 2007 11:40:16 am EST from 75.169.15.217

::Drive by post::
Don't know if this is old news or not, but it was news to me so...
Amazon.com has a presale listing up for the trade paperback. It looks like the release date is December 31st and it includess issues 1-6. No cover art. No issue 7 for sale yet either, but oh well. http://www.amazon.com/Gargoyles-Clan-Building-1/dp/1593620969/ref=pd_ecc_rvi_cart_1
kathy
posted @ Sat, Dec 15, 2007 11:12:30 am EST from 66.82.9.77

Alexandra: Dose everyone else? Yeah, that's what I've been suggesting for a while. It's easier to get someone to do what you want if you've given them a drug of some sort.

And no, I'm not referring to roofies. I think those people are disgusting. I was talking about more friendly stuff like sodium pentathol.

If I remember correctly, I think Greg suggested a bake sale on Sunday at G'2007. I volunteered to make brownies. Feed some brownies to the Disney execs, or something. My uncle has a great recipe, I'll see if he's still got it written down. ( ;
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"F**cking with dopeheads. It's really not that difficult."
posted @ Sat, Dec 15, 2007 10:03:56 am EST from 71.62.198.251

Ntripy> The most updated release schedule based on all information that can be obtained is organized by me on my site called The Gargoyles Pulse. Click the name below to be taken there. Thanks.

************************** Begin Spoilers **************************
General Comic Question> I'm confused by pages 18 & 19 of Gargoyles #7. Why do Coldsteel's and Coyote's dialogue bubbles have so many extra little triangles coming out of them. I'm confused on what going on in those pages because I'm not sure who's speaking.

Overall> First impression of Gargoyles #7 - annoyed and lost. Having to use the Gargwiki to make some sense of it made me more annoyed. I even tried using Excel to map out the dates myself, imaging I was a fan not privy to the Gargwiki, and I got annoyed and just closed it.

I don't know what's more annoying: a box that has one random date/time and one piece of dialogue, or the pages of dialogue where Shari's telling a story and you're expecting the next piece of the story and you get a random story of the Coldtrio in the middle. That was the only part of the comic that appeared to have any flow and then a monkey wrench was thrown in. And what about the story that she left off with in Reunion? She skips over how the seeds were sown in Shambahla, and talks about the Coldtrio. Then she goes from the Coldtrio story to Jacob and his rock (another page that made no sense). I know why the progression of the Shari stories are the way they are, but they almost seem more forced and unnatural, and the opposite of what one would expect.

As the reader, I wanted to hear about the Shambahla story the next time, but that's not going to happen because it's not important to the current Clan Building arc, or maybe it comes back in 10-12.

Right now, I'm honestly not looking forward to method of none flow for #8 & #9. In Avalon Pt 2, which gets slightly confusing because of time travel; the events flow from the past to the present. This issue had no flow for me and was very difficult to read or enjoy. I love Tarantino films, but this issue just confused the hell out of me. Maybe when all the final pieces are in place I'll like it better, but this is just my first impression.

************************** Future Spoilers **************************
I'm predicting this "withheld" information for Gargoyles #8 & #9:
November 8th. 5:34am EST - Shari story
November 9th. 5:36am EST - Shari story
November 10th. 5:37am EST - Shari story
November 11th. 5:38am EST - Shari story
November 12th. 5:39am EST - Shari Story
November 13th. 5:40am EST - Shari story
November 14th. 5:42am EST - Shari story
November 15th
5:38am EST - Shari story
5:40am EST - Shari story
5:43am EST - Shari story
************************** End Spoilers **************************
TiniTinyTony <The Gargoyles Pulse>
<The Gargoyles Pulse> - up to date as of 12/10/07
posted @ Sat, Dec 15, 2007 5:54:26 am EST from 70.15.84.29

Matt >> LOL... Such interesting conversation...

I need a little help...

After checking the Multimedia Archives and the Imagery Resource, along with a Google search, and downloading what I can, it seems I'm lacking sufficient pics of Brooklyn (of his entire body...got plenty of his face already). I'm in need of pics of Brooklyn's entire body looking away (at an angle) and looking straight forward. I need the pics as reference so I can work on my drawings for the Item of Enchantment Anthology contest. I'm using Brooklyn in my Oberon's Mirror drawing...and I'm not going to reveal any more than that... ;)

Any help is appreciated! ^_^'''
The One Known As Mochi - [shogi dot keima dot 08 at gmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>^^)> Gargoyles...
posted @ Sat, Dec 15, 2007 3:44:29 am EST from 72.199.225.9

Alexandra: To quote Red vs Blue on the difference between real life and the internet.

"No, I don't want it to be illegal, therefore it isn't! That's how it works."
Greg Bishansky
"Well, you could make a case that the world has already ended. That art is dead. That we're exhausted. That instead of art, we have… pop culture, daytime TV, gay senior citizens, women that have been raped by their dentists, confiding in Oprah. An exploration in depth of why women cut off their husband's penis."
posted @ Sat, Dec 15, 2007 1:14:01 am EST from 75.56.245.4

Vaevictis, dph_of_rules>Damn! I guess I got the order wrong. I'm not interested in Pendragon or New Olympians.

SPOILERS

Arkansas Mezzo> "If the diamond weren't serving some kind of purpose inside of the Coyote robot, it doesn't seem likely that Xanatos would explain, "... the stone's flawlesss surfaces and clarity increase the speed of--" (What? The speed of WHAT??? Gah!)"

It could be anything, I think where the line is cut off makes it too ambiguous to conclude it must relate to Coyote. I'm just speculating based on what we've seen Coyote use that compartment for in the past.

"some kind of pink light illuminates the diamond - which, to me, indicates that something important is going on inside of Coyote."

I think the lasers are refracting through the diamond and reflecting off mirrors back into the diamond.

For what reason is anyone's guess, mine is that its a last defense mechanism in case someone manages to get into the compartment.

But hey, I'm no writer, so I'm sure GW's idea will be a hundred times better than that.
Ntripy
posted @ Sat, Dec 15, 2007 1:05:11 am EST from 72.232.196.138

Sorry for the double post.

That was supposed to *you're hurting it*.

Just ignore the 'not' part in that sentence.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Sat, Dec 15, 2007 1:01:44 am EST from 75.60.190.3

Alexandra> It's good that you want/have the whole collection, but think of it in economics.

Buying bootlegs are not helping to raise sales of the legit DVDs, and it does not convince Disney to release the true, honest DVDs.

Like someone else said, by not buying the legal DVD sets, you're not helping the sales/fandom, you're not hurting it.

Todd Jensen> Sorry for this, I really am, but can you delete my #7 review? This'll be the last time, I swear.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Sat, Dec 15, 2007 1:00:39 am EST from 75.60.190.3

Just for you information I have already bought 27 copies of each dvd..... I have done my part, friend. I will continue to buy them as they come out I deserve the full colection as dose everyone else I found it and will buy it. All I was doing was sharring what I found with other gargoyle fans. So I beg you dont judge. We all work for the same goal. Have a great day and Again I beg you to not judge me for wanting the full collection.
Alexandra - [demona_of_avalon at yahoo dot com]
Alexandra Lynn
posted @ Sat, Dec 15, 2007 12:54:18 am EST from 209.144.45.14

Ah, so what if Canada produced two psychopathic felons? They gave us Rush. All is forgiven, as far as I'm concerned. ( ;
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"All the world's indeed a stage and we are merely players, performers and portrayers. Each another's audience outside the gilded cage." -Rush ("Limelight")
posted @ Sat, Dec 15, 2007 12:36:49 am EST from 71.62.198.251

Alexandra> That is not real. It is a bootleg. Buying that would not be helping "Gargoyles", it would be hurting it. It is theft.

It would be like buying a diamond from Tony Soprano. It's more likely a cubic zirconia, and even then, someone donated their kneecaps for it.
Greg Bishansky
"Well, you could make a case that the world has already ended. That art is dead. That we're exhausted. That instead of art, we have… pop culture, daytime TV, gay senior citizens, women that have been raped by their dentists, confiding in Oprah. An exploration in depth of why women cut off their husband's penis."
posted @ Sat, Dec 15, 2007 12:34:04 am EST from 75.56.245.4

Ok... I found something wonderful! There is a 5 dvd set of all the gargoyles episodes in order for 44.99 this is the link enjoy! http://www.ultimatedvdshop.com/movie/cartoon/Gargoyles.html
Alexandra - [demona_of_avalon at yahoo dot com]
Alexandra Lynn
posted @ Sat, Dec 15, 2007 12:27:48 am EST from 209.144.45.14

Too bad about Timedancer coming after Pendragon ... I can't wait to meet Katana and Co.

SPOILERS

Ntripy> Coyote Diamond> If the diamond weren't serving some kind of purpose inside of the Coyote robot, it doesn't seem likely that Xanatos would explain, "... the stone's flawlesss surfaces and clarity increase the speed of--" (What? The speed of WHAT??? Gah!) And a couple of frames after that partial explanation, some kind of pink light illuminates the diamond - which, to me, indicates that something important is going on inside of Coyote.
Arkansas Mezzo
"'Tis pity though in this sublime world that / Pleasure's a sin, and sometimes sin's a pleasure." -- Lord Byron, Don Juan, Canto I
posted @ Fri, Dec 14, 2007 11:38:20 pm EST from 206.255.79.132

Actually, Ntripy, you're wrong about the order. Check out http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?rid=505
The original order was :
Bad Guys #2 - December, 2007
Gargoyles #8 - January, 2008
Bad Guys #3 - February, 2008
Gargoyles #9 - March, 2008
Bad Guys #4 - April, 2008
Gargoyles #10 - May, 2008
Bad Guys #5 - June, 2008
Gargoyles #11 - July, 2008
Bad Guys #6 - August, 2008
Gargoyles #12 - September, 2008
Pendragon #1 - October, 2008

Keep in mind that that schedule is off by a month, but it's still pretty good. I'm guessing by now Greg is scripting gargoyles comic issue #10, bad guys issue #5, or gargoyles issue #11. Barring extraordinary demand, I'm guessing it'll be October 2009 before we see a Timedancer comic.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Fri, Dec 14, 2007 11:25:34 pm EST from 98.20.179.147

Vaevictis> As long as we don't end up with the stupid, hippie PIT from TGC, I'll be fine.

That group was so unrealistically portrayed anyway. A real organization characterized the way they were would be saying how pro-gargoyle they are, but would never leave Washington Square Park, because they'd be too busy hanging out there, playing their acoustic guitars and smoking pot.
Greg Bishansky
"Well, you could make a case that the world has already ended. That art is dead. That we're exhausted. That instead of art, we have… pop culture, daytime TV, gay senior citizens, women that have been raped by their dentists, confiding in Oprah. An exploration in depth of why women cut off their husband's penis."
posted @ Fri, Dec 14, 2007 11:20:27 pm EST from 75.56.245.4

NTripy >> I think he said Pendragon would be next, and Timedancer would come after Pendragon.

I've been thinking about how different New Yorkers would react to he news of the gargoyles. We'll have our violent anti-gargoyle types, including those who believe gargoyles are demons and others who are just frightened citizens. And I want to see violent pro-gargoyle types as well. Wouldn't it be funny if some of them were a cult of gargoyle-worshippers? That would give them a motivation for being violently pro-gargoyle. And it would be so hilarious!
Vaevictis Asmadi
"We're not the last. We're not alone." - Hudson
posted @ Fri, Dec 14, 2007 11:12:41 pm EST from 209.162.56.40

"I too think the Timedance is coming up, but I don't think Lex is finding his mate anytime soon. I mean, he doesn't even know he's gay yet."

You know you're gay when you fall in love with a member of the same sex. Or find yourself attracted to a member of the same sex. So Lex probably won't find out until he meets a guy he likes. From what I've seen anyway.
Aldrius
posted @ Fri, Dec 14, 2007 11:06:47 pm EST from 207.112.5.83

I assumed the timedancer story would be issues 10-12 too, just because it would fit nicely with the chronology of when the books are being released. Next release is Bad Guys 2, then Gargoyles 8, so if all goes to plan;

Bad Guys 2
Gargoyles 8
Bad Guys 3
Gargoyles 9
Bad Guys 4
Gargoyles 10
Bad Guys 5
Gargoyles 11
Bad Guys 6
Gargoyles 12
Timedancer 1

I think Greg said he wants to do the Timedancer spin-off after Bad Guys (if it does well enough), and if there are no other delays, that would mean that we will see the continuation of the story from Garg 12, in Timedancer 1, only one month later, that would be awesome!

SPOILERS

The Coyote Diamond> Fistly, Xanatos is talking to Coldsteel as he places the diamond inside Coyote, he's not talking to Coyote, right? Thats the impression I get from the word bubbles. Coldsteels word bubbles seem to have two spikes and Coyotes have four.

I don't think the diamond is doing anything for Coyote, I thought he was just storing it in his chest compartment like when he held the trickster in "Cloud Fathers", and the lasers were just added protection to keep it safe until the time comes to do with it whatever Xanatos had ordered.
Ntripy
posted @ Fri, Dec 14, 2007 11:00:24 pm EST from 72.232.196.138

I'd forgotten about that statement of Greg's. I think that your query will work as long as you allude to it, thus making it clear that the idea originated with him rather than you. (It will probably be less safe to ask whether the Stone spoke to Jacob, though; that sounds like an idea masquerading as a question.)

(There's one difficulty with the Stone being a Child of Oberon in disguise; the Weird Sisters mention in "The Gathering Part One" that the Gathering's complete except for Titania and Puck. If the Stone of Destiny's still in the outside world, then I doubt it's a Child of Oberon.)
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Fri, Dec 14, 2007 10:31:50 pm EST from 4.244.213.139

I was referring to when Greg said "Whereas, the Stone of Destiny is either an enchanted object or a Child of Oberon. I've intentionally left that vague for now."

So I need to reword it to refer to that statement? I was actually wondering about whether it is an idea to wonder if the Stone spoke to Jacob.
Vaevictis Asmadi
"We're not the last. We're not alone." - Hudson
posted @ Fri, Dec 14, 2007 9:57:58 pm EST from 209.162.56.40

VAEVICTIS - I think it would be a better idea not to even hint that the Stone might be a Child of Oberon. Too close to an idea in disguise.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Fri, Dec 14, 2007 8:32:57 pm EST from 4.244.213.139

Since the Introduction was written by Greg, Todd should be able to post the first paragraph under the rubric "Greg responds..." right?
Vaevictis Asmadi
"We're not the last. We're not alone." - Hudson
posted @ Fri, Dec 14, 2007 8:27:37 pm EST from 71.34.61.7

**Ask Greg related**
Todd - Is there any way you can answer this question in advance:
letica writes...

what is tis siteabout

The person obviously didn't read the introduction to Ask Greg.
**End Ask Greg related**
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Fri, Dec 14, 2007 7:50:55 pm EST from 98.20.204.168

Score one for Canada!
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Fri, Dec 14, 2007 7:46:41 pm EST from 198.53.239.8

TODD

If I post

*If that Stone is a Child of Oberon, it seems to be very patient with sitting around for long boring stretches of time being a rock. Though I wonder if Jacob's vision had to do with it being a talking stone?

in my review, is that OK?
Vaevictis Asmadi
"We're not the last. We're not alone." - Hudson
posted @ Fri, Dec 14, 2007 7:40:58 pm EST from 71.34.61.7

No, Jackal and Hyena's Canadian background is a new reveal from Greg.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'
posted @ Fri, Dec 14, 2007 7:21:02 pm EST from 24.207.163.239

Sorry for the double post but I was just looking over Ask Greg. Answer-wise, did we know prior to this that Hyena and Jackal were originally from Canada?

I've got a question pending which I'm eager to see a response to. It's weird not having to wait months or years to hear back on Ask Greg. Of course i do also have to sit through "questions" like "do i have power if not how ca i get them", "what is tis siteabout", and Jonny Modlin's latest retread, but I guess that's the price you pay.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Fri, Dec 14, 2007 7:05:44 pm EST from 209.6.248.33

POSSIBLE SPOILERS

If Thailog and friends have left New York, they have not gone too far... longitudally anyway. They are still in the Eastern Time Zone.

And if anyone wants to see all the scenes so far written in chronological order take a look at the Timeline at GargWiki. I know the Timeline is a total mess right now, so just scroll down and you'll see where we are.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'
posted @ Fri, Dec 14, 2007 7:01:03 pm EST from 24.207.163.239

****mini spoilers***
I also thought the stag's glowing antler's were cool looking.
nitpick: what is that thing on Elisa's nose in the panel before she "kisses" Goliath?
starlioness
posted @ Fri, Dec 14, 2007 7:00:19 pm EST from 206.188.56.70

POTENTIAL SPOILERS AHEAD

Patrick> Interesting info, though I think the fact that the Stone has already shown itself to have unusual properties, such as the ability to speak, I think it's rather unlikely that the Stone about to be returned to Scotland is not the real Stone of Destiny. It is entirely possible that Thailog is aware of all the commotion that the Stone of Destiny is causing - either through Shari telling him about it or through his own efforts to keep tabs on what his dads are up to - and wants to know more about the Stone for future reference or to decide whether or not he's going to get involved. We've seen nothing to suggest that Thailog and company have left Manhattan. I don't doubt that they're up to something, but when and how he's going to get involved remains to be seen.

PurpleGoldfish> Thanks for pointing that out. I've just been trying to keep straight what happens on which day, let alone relating the times of events on one day to another. The idea that Shari would be telling Thailog these stories at such closely related times every night, in some cases continuing the story from the previous night, seems like another big clue to her being Scheherazade. I'll keep an open mind, but by this point, I'm pretty convinced.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Fri, Dec 14, 2007 6:56:44 pm EST from 209.6.248.33

WOW.

I just read Number Seven. Very impressive. Interesting the way the narration flowed, but I guess that another advantage of having it in this medium. I'll post a more in-depth review later, since this is one of those stories that begs for a second reading.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"I'm the doctor who's trying to save your son's life. And you're the mom who's letting him die. Clarification: it's a beautiful thing." -House, MD.
posted @ Fri, Dec 14, 2007 6:44:09 pm EST from 71.62.198.251

MATT >> Lol!

PURPLEGOLDFISH >> I noticed that too. It's weird.

PATRICK >> I agree with Todd about the Stone. However, I doubt Thailog knows it spoke to Arthur.

I too think the Timedance is coming up, but I don't think Lex is finding his mate anytime soon. I mean, he doesn't even know he's gay yet. I know that gargoyles don't do the dating thing, but come on, give the guy some time! It would also be weird if Brooklyn and Lex both were mated at the same time. Kind of piling it on instead of focusing on one at a time?
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Fri, Dec 14, 2007 6:37:12 pm EST from 138.192.34.100

VAEVICTIS - Good point. All that Greg said was that Broadway and Angela were present; he didn't say which other members of the clan were or were not present.

PATRICK - In light of the events of the television episode "Pendragon" (the Stone of Destiny spoke to Arthur and transported him and Griff to New York), I think it's safe to assume that, in the Gargoyles Universe, the stone in Westminster Abbey was the genuine article.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Fri, Dec 14, 2007 6:06:32 pm EST from 4.244.213.139

SPOILERS AHEAD

I also think Brooklyn's timedance is imminent.

Thailog and Brentwood are digging for something. Interesting indeed in light of what I read today on Wikipedia.

"However, there is some doubt whether Edward I captured the real stone - it has been suggested that monks at Scone Palace hid the real Stone in the River Tay or buried it on Dunsinane Hill. If so, it is possible that the English troops were fooled into taking the wrong stone; some have claimed that historic descriptions do not appear to fit the present stone. If the monks did hide the real stone, they hid it well, as no other stone fitting its description has ever been found (although rumors are occasionally heard of Knights Templar claiming to have the original stone in their possession)."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_of_scone

END SPOILERS
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line!" - Vizzini, "The Princess Bride"
posted @ Fri, Dec 14, 2007 5:38:20 pm EST from 76.241.137.12

Matt-Lol!

SPOILERS!!!!!!!

Just got #7 today, and, just...Wow. I'll write a review later, but I wanted to point out something I noticed.

When Shari tells Thailog the stories, they each take place one minute after each other on each consecutive day, except the second to last one. Nov. 3rd story is at 5:29, Nov. 4th is at 5:30, Nov. 5th is at 5:31, Nov. 6th at 5:32, (one again at 6:00, which doesn't fit), and Nov. 7th at 5:33.
Does that girl have good timing or what?

Oh and I love the two new london gargs, especially the pig girl hehe- but they don't have tails? And there's something strangely religous about the stag-the way he descends and his glowing antlers like a halo.

Will we finally get to see Lex's "special friend?" :) OMG I can't wait for the next issue!!

SPOILERS END!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Happy Holidays to you too, Battle Beast :)
Purplegoldfish - [Skydragonn at aol dot com]
posted @ Fri, Dec 14, 2007 4:44:38 pm EST from 69.183.34.195

Hilarious conversation with my boyfriend, Jason. I was showing him the two new London Clan gargs in the comic book, particularly the white stag-goyle.

Me: There is a small possibility that he is Lex's mate.
Jason: Mate? How can two two male gargoyles be mates?
Me: How can two male humans be mates?!
Jason: No, I mean, the males can't lay eggs, right?
Me: Right.
Jason: Can Lexington fertilize an egg?
Me: Well, yeah, I guess... but so can you.
Jason: So gargoyles have sex?
Me: Yeah, of course.
Jason: Oh... Well, is it loud?
Me: *Laughing* Loud?
Jason: Well, it seems Goliath would be pretty loud.
Me: *Laughing* I wouldn't know, we haven't seen an episode with that yet.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'
posted @ Fri, Dec 14, 2007 3:45:57 pm EST from 24.207.163.239

Michael Ejercito:<When did Derek become an ordained minister?>

Technically ordained ministers are not the only ones who can preform marriages.
Vinnie - [tpeano29 at hotmail dot com]
It's silly. It's a silly movie. There just isn't much there. Once you take it all apart, there's not much story, is there?- George Lucas on Spider-Man 3
posted @ Fri, Dec 14, 2007 3:42:57 pm EST from 69.54.209.38

SPOILERS BELOW

Todd, did the Master Plan say that Hudson and Lex were *not* there when Brooklyn left and returned?

I want to know what Angela whispered to Broadway.

I think it is too soon to assume that Amp is a person, let alone a gargoyle, and certainly too soon to assume that it is Lex's mate. The name doesn't even indicate a gender.

SPOILERS ABOVE
Vaevictis Asmadi
"We're not the last. We're not alone." - Hudson
posted @ Fri, Dec 14, 2007 2:39:01 pm EST from 71.34.61.7

To support the possibility of Timedancer being the story for 10-12. Greg said that #10 will be the first story set in 1997, the same year Brooklyn begins his journey.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Fri, Dec 14, 2007 2:20:03 pm EST from 71.115.192.199

Clan-Building> I was thinking earlier this week (before "The Rock" came out) that the title for this story arc doesn't seem to be very fitting, at least not yet. But a lot of Greg's titles can have multiple meanings, which calls for deeper analysis.

In the first six issues of the story arc:
* Elisa's position has been confirmed/strengthened in the Manhattan Clan. And Dr. Sato has been accepted into their confidence as well, so perhaps he could be considered part of the extended clan.
* The Labyrinth Clan suffered the loss of Brentwood, but I suppose the exercise of the clones' free will built-up the clan.
* The Quarrymen (Castaway's "clan") was established.
* We learned more about the Illuminati and the Gargoyle Task Force, including members that hadn't been introduced yet. They could be considered clans.
* Thailog is establishing a clan, with Shari and Brentwood.

And in the second half of "Clan Building" there are still many possibilities:
&&&&& SPOILERS &&&&&
* I was thinking that the reintroduction of Coldstone and the return of Coldsteel in "Reunion" might be leading up to Coldstone and Coldfire rejoining the Manhattan Clan. Shari told Thailog (and new readers) their origin in "the Rock," so that's still a possibility.
* Maggie is pregnant. That's one way to build your clan.
* As some have suggested, perhaps a London gargoyle or two ("Amp"?) may relocate to Manhattan
* And as Todd and Matt just suggested, Brooklyn's timedance would add a few more to the Manhattan Clan

Is there any other speculation about the significance of "Clan-Building"?
.
Phil - [p1anderson at go dot com]
posted @ Fri, Dec 14, 2007 1:44:33 pm EST from 69.131.42.43

Todd> Ah, I see.

You might want to delete it again. I re-posted it.

Once it is done, I'll delete the Coyote Diamond bit and yet again repost it.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Fri, Dec 14, 2007 1:35:57 pm EST from 75.60.190.3

POTENTIAL SPOILERS

I think, and have always suspected, that the Timedancer story will be Issues 10-12 if for no other reason than that it fits into the "Clan-Building" theme. Other supporting pieces of evidence include the correct timing (late 1996, early 1997) and the ongoing portrayal of Brooklyn's sorry love life.

However, I think Lex and Hudson (and maybe Amp) will have returned to the Eyrie by this time. And I think that while Angela and Broadway will be with Brooklyn when the time comes, that they'll have future opportnities besides the one seen in "The Rock".
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'
posted @ Fri, Dec 14, 2007 12:46:55 pm EST from 24.207.163.239

* SPOILERS *

Greg's description of the Timedancer spin-off in the Masterplan document indicated that Broadway and Angela were with Brooklyn when the Phoenix Gate suddenly appeared and whisked him off on forty years of adventuring up and down the time-stream. And in #7, Brooklyn, Broadway, and Angela are all staying behind in New York while Hudson and Lexington accompany Macbeth to London.

Could this be a sign that Brooklyn's Timedancer adventures are approaching, to probably be the subject of #10 - #12? Maybe the present-day portions of it (Brooklyn vanishing in front of Broadway and Angela, and reappearing five minutes later with Katana, Nashville, Fu-Dog and the egg that will hatch into Tachi) will take place while Hudson and Lex are still in Britain. If so, those two will really have a memorable homecoming, with three new members (soon to be four) for the clan, and Brooklyn dramatically changed.

* SPOILERS END *
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Fri, Dec 14, 2007 12:33:55 pm EST from 4.245.17.81

Vinnie-

When did Derek become an ordained minister?
Michael Ejercito - [mejercit at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Fri, Dec 14, 2007 11:38:58 am EST from 75.142.107.43

Robby Bevard >> Wow, thanks for explaining about all that! You obviously but a great deal of thought into all the colors. It's never occured to me that light bulbs would tint things differently than moonlight.

DPH >> They don't have to be 100% true to be true. And Greg doesn't depict them as 100% true, for example the Third Race (gods) are younger than the mortals whom they claim to have created, Odin survived Ragnarok, the Fates and Furies and Graces are all the same three people, the Minotaur story, etc. But all religions can be true for the most part if the myths aren't interpreted exactly literally, word-for-word, or if details are changed so they don't contradict. Just like (as Patrick pointed out) religion and science go just fine together if you don't interpret the Bible literally. Until scientific thinking became common, I think people probably interpreted myths in a mythic, non-literal way as a matter of course.

Anyway, I don't see where the story of Jacob and Moses contradicts anything else revealed in the Gargoyles Universe so far.
Vaevictis Asmadi
"We're not the last. We're not alone." - Hudson
posted @ Fri, Dec 14, 2007 10:39:11 am EST from 71.34.61.7

"Roses are red,
Violets are blue.
Everything is possible,
And nothing is true."
V for Vendetta
Ethan Gilchrist - [ethangilchrist at gmail dot com]
"I wouldn't wanna live in a world without grudges." --Jack Terricloth of the World Inferno Friendship Society
posted @ Fri, Dec 14, 2007 9:59:51 am EST from 66.56.6.148

KING COBRA - I had to delete your review of #7 because of your question about whether the Coyote Diamond could turn gargoyles into stone at night; that was an idea masquerading as a question.

VAEVICTIS - I've had similar thoughts about the story of Owain and the Lion. (Malory includes a similar tale in his account of the Grail Quest about Percival. If Percival really did meet and befriend a lion-gargoyle during the Grail Quest in the Gargoyles Universe, I wonder if he still remembers the incident as Duval.)
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Fri, Dec 14, 2007 7:30:36 am EST from 4.244.211.63

Vaevictis Asmadi: <<<"Maggie is pregnant! I guessed it from the way Dr. Sato says "condition" and the way she and Derek are looking at each other. I'm surprised it happened so soon. They're going to have to get married then."
-Why do they need to get married>>
Hmm... it isn't like Derek is going anywhere. It isn't like the legal benefits of marriage will be useful to them down in the Labyrinth. But... I still think they should have a ceremony.>

Actually as the King of Labrynth Talon could probably perform a marriage ceremony himself if he wanted. Maybe even making his own laws concerning marriage.
Vinnie - [tpeano29 at hotmail dot com]
It's silly. It's a silly movie. There just isn't much there. Once you take it all apart, there's not much story, is there?- George Lucas on Spider-Man 3
posted @ Fri, Dec 14, 2007 7:17:26 am EST from 69.54.209.134

And then there are those who believe that God created the universe by setting off the Big Bang, and created man by way of evolution. Contrary to what some people would have us believe, these ideas are not mutually exclusive.

196 days left until The Gathering 2008 in Chicago, Illinois!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line!" - Vizzini, "The Princess Bride"
posted @ Fri, Dec 14, 2007 7:01:13 am EST from 76.241.137.12

Sorry for the double post.

Thanks for 'editing' it, Gorebash. I'll just change my mistake from the first time and re-post it.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Fri, Dec 14, 2007 5:28:55 am EST from 75.60.190.3

Hey, where did my review of #7 go?
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Fri, Dec 14, 2007 5:25:46 am EST from 75.60.190.3

dph_of_rules-
Everything can be true if you don't look at it in the sense of all occuring on the same plane of existence/whatever you want to call it. Two objects occupy the same space though just not at the same 'place'. *ponders* Think of the idea of there being infinate outcomes to everything you do and that each of those infinate outcomes is being played out on a different plane. The same goes for the religions and creation of the universe. On one the Judeo-Christian God made the world, on another a Pagan Goddess formed the Earth and a God the sky, on another there's the Big Bang, so on and so forth. The only way all these religions exist together is because the planes overlap just as the different possibilities and outcomes of your actions might.
Though that's just how I think of it.

Another, simplier, thought is the 'every myth/fable has a bit of truth to it' idea.
Asia - [h3llskitten at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Fri, Dec 14, 2007 4:51:29 am EST from 71.241.1.37

All stories. Whether they be religious or fictional.

Have an element of truth to them.

So when the Weird Sisters say 'all things are true'. It doesn't mean that every statement is a fact. It just means that anything is possible and from a certain perspective every story has happened.
Aldrius
posted @ Fri, Dec 14, 2007 4:16:44 am EST from 207.112.5.83

Vaevictis Asmadi- Broadway is more green than blue in this issue because the clan is indoors being lit by hallogen bulbs, making the whole room brighter and more yellow. Compare Lex and Hudson on those pages to the pages where they're outside at night, or Elisa when shes in the Labrynth compared to outside, and their tones are pretty different. Broadway will be the same whenever he's outside, darker and bluer. Similarly, thats why Broolyn's hair has the slight yellow tint, when he's outdoors it'll be a cooler blue/grey.

Its something that I never realized in 13 years of watching the show until I sat down and screen capped endlessly for ref for the issue, and had the dvds on near constant loop for two weeks, that Brooklyn's hair is actually cream colored, not stark white like I always thought... funny how that works. (Its just that he's almost always outside, so his hair was usually colored in blue shades...)

As for the eyes, thats a result of David drawing them blank to be filled in, though I suppose in the future I should make them darker, since their eyes usually did read as solid black.
Robby Bevard
posted @ Fri, Dec 14, 2007 3:21:14 am EST from 207.200.116.68

Hey, tell it to Greg and the Weird Sisters.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'
posted @ Fri, Dec 14, 2007 2:42:57 am EST from 24.207.163.239

Matt - All things can't be true at the same time. For example: There is ice in this refrigerator (points to a specific refrig). There is not ice in this refrigerator (points to the aforementioned refrig). Only 1 of those two statements can true at the same moment. Or consider these two statements: The universe has always existed. The universe was created. Only 1 of those two statements can be true. When two different religions have contradictory statements of origin of the universe or what happens to people when they die, one of them has to be false.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Fri, Dec 14, 2007 1:20:34 am EST from 98.20.204.168

***SPOILERS***

I LOVEd the book, Issue #7.

I was particularly pleased with all the "little" stuff going on... Maggie's pregnancy, Dr. Sato; The "Jet Lag"; the arrival of the London Clan and Arthur.

I never noticed the detail in the corronation scene untill Robby mentioned it. Great attention to deatail!

I LOVED the image of Elisa, arms crossed, talking to Sato. I thought that that was the best image of Elisa to date in the comics. Of course, we all have our own preferences.

The backstory with the bibleish stuff was really interesting, and just shows more depth to the show er, comic. I am now convinced that Scherazadi (SP?) is Shari.

I am growing tired of Brooklyn pouting about not getting Angela. But, I know it's leading to something....

The Jet Lag issue was a big surprise. (The cover joke was terrific). What would happen if the Gargoyles were wisked to the arctic? Say Baffin Island? With the way the sun work up there, how would the Gargoyles' biologic tickers work? Interesting.

Finally, I belive Arthur is jsut scaring MacBeth. And the two new Gargoyles the Quote/unquote "wild Sow" and Stag were BEAUTIFULLY drawna nd colored (Take a bow, artists!) and I happen to LOVE the white stag. BEAUTIFUL!

I am anxious to see the London Clan in Stone, as we haven't (except for Griff) seen them as stone.

But as a whole. I think this is the BEST issue to date.

I may not post again untill after Christmas, as I am off to Anaheim (yes, I know I just got back from Florida) but MERRY CHRISTMAS, happy holidays, happy hanukkah, Happy new year, or whatever you celebrate or don't: GREG W. (Thank you for all your hard work to get this book out for us. Thank you!), To all the hard working staff at the comic, Gorebash, Amanda Wells, Greg. B, Patrick, Wingless, Kris, Blaise, Todd Jensen, Vash, DPH, Tinitinytoni, purplegoldfish, Matt, The One Known As Mochi, Vaevictis Asmadi, Starlioness, Harvester of Eyes, Vinie, DemonSkrye, Arkansas Mezzo, King Cobra, Phil, Asatira, Spen, Phoenician, Antiyonder, Vicky82, Jurgan, Stephen J. Sabotka Jr., AND ANYONE I MISSED!!!
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Fri, Dec 14, 2007 12:36:22 am EST from 198.53.239.8

Starlioness >> Yes... It should be 12 issues before renewal...

While I'm on that subject, I took a moment to search the archives regarding the license and its renewal. Greg W. made a post back in March announcing the Bad Guys spin off and also mentioned, "On top of this, Dan Vado has stated that he has every intention of picking up the Gargoyles' license when it comes up for renewal."

It looks like we'll be seeing more than 12 issues (and that's good). ^_^
The One Known As Mochi - [shogi dot keima dot 08 at gmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>^^)> Watching Gargoyles...
posted @ Fri, Dec 14, 2007 12:03:49 am EST from 72.199.225.9

All things are true.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'
posted @ Thu, Dec 13, 2007 11:37:39 pm EST from 24.207.163.239

Vaevictis Asmadi - What gets me is the logic. If you start saying that every religion is 100% true, then you run into problems with contradictions. That's why I hate Walker Texas Ranger's portrayal of the different religions within the series. Every time they dealt with a different religion, it was shown to be 100% right, but the contradictions between the different religions make them impossible.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Thu, Dec 13, 2007 11:25:03 pm EST from 98.20.204.168

I think there is nothing wrong with portraying every religion as true. I don't know why it would be a problem to say that the story of Jacob is true, any more than it is a problem to say that Odin or Anubis exist.
Vaevictis Asmadi
"We're not the last. We're not alone." - Hudson
posted @ Thu, Dec 13, 2007 10:36:31 pm EST from 71.34.57.88

short question.. how many issues (not counting bad guys) are we at least supposed to get .. it was at least 12 before the liscense is renewed right?
Starlioness
posted @ Thu, Dec 13, 2007 10:36:23 pm EST from 206.188.56.114

**Spoilers**
I hadn't thought about connecting the Stone of Destiny all the way back to Jacob.

Anyways, I do look the way that Greg's handling Jacob's part of the story. One of my complaints about handling different religious beliefs in any series occurs when you portray everybody's religion as true and also go into very specific details. I consider Greg's handling of it to be very respectfull. Of course, I hope this is a foreshadowing how Greg plans on handling the Holy Grail.
**End Spoilers**

I'm getting around to writing my review of issue #7. This issue was so intriguing that I had to spend more time than I have had to just to digest things.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Thu, Dec 13, 2007 10:17:45 pm EST from 98.20.204.168

SPOILERS

Another thought about those angels... it occurs to me that their wings were drawn they way they were to make it quite obvious that these are NOT gargoyles. Their wings are too geometrical and somewhat transparent. It would not surprise me if Greg had them drawn this way so that no one would confuse these angels with gargoyles.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'
posted @ Thu, Dec 13, 2007 10:07:56 pm EST from 24.207.163.239

Todd >> Very interesting insight about Jacob! I like your theory about that, though I haven't read the story myself. I have my own idea about a gargoyle being in an ancient legend, the one about Owain and the Lion. The story never said the lion had wings, but it sure acted oddly for an animal. And it was very protective.

I agree that the coloring was very good in this issue, except I think that the color of Broadway's skin is too green. And I find it really odd that his eyes are green too. In Awakening, his eyes look black to me.

But I'm glad that Hudson and Lex and Thailog have the correct colors. I think Brentwood's even got black teeth, though it's hard to tell. Hopefully the artists are being provided with character models so we won't get anymore issues in which the mutates have tails, or the clones' mouths are red.
Vaevictis Asmadi
"We're not the last. We're not alone." - Hudson
posted @ Thu, Dec 13, 2007 8:39:11 pm EST from 71.34.57.88

Heraldry> OK, because i have half an hour to kill before taking seven month old puppy out in the snow (whee), here's some info on animals in heraldry. Click my name for the original site and keep in mind that this is just one interpretation of what these beasties might mean:

Boar - a fierce warrior who will fight until death
Stag - a noble animal, generally peaceful, but able to fight when needed
Lion - a leader or royalty
Wolf - deep family loyalty, someone who is dangerous to cross, possibly even a commander who was successful in a long siege
Dove - Love, purity, and peace
Eagle - Power, strength, protection(!), empire
Falcon/Hawk - Loyalty, courage in spite of size
Swan - Poetry, harmony, musical talent
Dragon - a formidable opponent, near invincibility, wealth
Gryphon - a fierce warrior, rich, much like the dragon though perhaps wiser
Phoenix - long life or rebirth (It was sometimes seen on the signs of towns that were rebuilt after being destroyed)
Unicorn - Purity, Christ

SPOILERS BELOW

I think it's highly unlikely that all of these animals - or any of the other animals that may have shown up on a family crest at some point - will have counterparts in the London clan. Some may be too close to the appearances of other clans and some may just no make very good gargoyle designs.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Thu, Dec 13, 2007 8:32:54 pm EST from 209.6.248.33

* CONTAINS SPOILERS *

ARKANSAS - I doubt that the angels who appeared to Jacob would actually be the Weird Sisters in disguise - that would be too controversial. (Though your remark reminded me of an equally controversial creativity demon I'd had about Jacob recently. Later on in the Genesis story, he wrestles a mysterious opponent at night, and when he finally wins, his opponent begs Jacob to let him go before dawn - which is rapidly approaching. And when Jacob asks him for his name, he replies "Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name?" A figure who appears at night, wants to leave before morning, and seems puzzled when asked for his name - that raises the question of what Jacob was really wrestling.)

ROBBY - Thanks for your explanation about the story behind the picture. It's definitely getting into the Tidbits section of my review of this issue.

After noting the format behind the openings to all of Shari's tales - "The tale is told, though who knows if it be true" - I'm going to have to look up the Thousand and One Nights - preferably a translation close to the original - to see if that's how Scheherazade begins her tales to the Caliph. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it is.

* SPOILERS END *
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Thu, Dec 13, 2007 7:37:20 pm EST from 4.244.209.155

Demonskrye> Thank you for enlightening me. I recall very, VERY vaguely having once read something about the Amp/Coco idea, but definitely needed a refresher.

SPOILERS
On page 3, in Jacob's vision, there are three angels / supernatural beings / what-have-you right above him - does anybody else think these could be the Weird Sisters in disguise? (appearing to Jacob in a form that he would understand, just as they appeared to Macbeth and Demona as old hags and old gargoyles, respectively) Obviously, they look nothing like the Weird Sisters, but just the fact that there are three of them ... and the sepia tones don't really show their hair color, but they might be dark, lighter, lightest .... In the Genesis story, only God appears in Jacob's vision, at the top of the ladder (or staircase in some translations). So someone (I'm assuming Greg) made the choice to have three beings appear to Jacob, instead of just one. Any takers?
Arkansas Mezzo
"'Tis pity though in this sublime world that / Pleasure's a sin, and sometimes sin's a pleasure." -- Lord Byron, Don Juan, Canto I
posted @ Thu, Dec 13, 2007 7:25:40 pm EST from 206.255.79.132

Arkansas Mezzo> Since I'm here....

"Amp" was the name of one of the gargoyles in an early comedy treatment of the show before it was redeveloped as an adventure drama. There was also a female gargoyle named Coco who was sort of a prototypical Broadway and kind of heavy set, which is why some people are theorizing that the boar gargoyle might be named "Coco".

The London clan gargoyles all appear to resemble animals that were common in European heraldry, the imagery that you would see on shields or crests. The animals used in heraldry were generally supposed to represent something about the family whose crest it was. Lion were associated with courage or royalty, and unicorns represented purity. But I'm guessing that these traits don't necessarily show up in the gargoyles who resemble the animals from heraldry.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Thu, Dec 13, 2007 7:15:52 pm EST from 209.6.248.33

BEGIN SPOILERS

Robby> Fantastic colors! It made me feel like I was watching the show again. Especially Lex's skin color and the particular shade of Fox's hair - they were dead-on. Beautiful work! (And I can't wait for the next issue!) And thanks for the tidbit about the coronation scene in City of Stone; I suspected there was a goof somewhere, but I assumed that it was in the comic, not the show. Thanks for setting the record straight.

Amp> Someone (I can't remember who) said that the "Amp" bit was a funny in-joke. I know jokes normally aren't funny if they have to be explained, but can someone explain this one to me? I don't get it ….

V. Asmadi> Thailog's bath> I was thinking it was more of a hot-tub, since there were so many bubbles …. But it is kind of weird that Shari's following him around all night telling him stories, and even weirder that he's listening so patiently.

Maggie's pregnancy> Since it's only been two or three years since I read C. Morgan's "Kittens," I couldn't help thinking, "Oh yeah, that's right, Maggie gets pregnant pretty early in the season…." :) For some reason, though, I had the idea in my head that mutants were sterile … or maybe that's mules ….

Asia> I too found the story very "jumpy." I'm going to have to re-read it a few times to get all the nuances … though reading everyone's reviews helps too. And thanks for the stone info - I didn't know any of that.

Lani & Todd> "heraldic beasts"> I'm curious to know what you mean by "heraldic" - do they symbolize something in particular? That is interesting that they are both traditional animals of prey, in contrast to Leo and Griff.

END SPOILERS
Arkansas Mezzo
"'Tis pity though in this sublime world that / Pleasure's a sin, and sometimes sin's a pleasure." -- Lord Byron, Don Juan, Canto I
posted @ Thu, Dec 13, 2007 7:04:48 pm EST from 206.255.79.132

Robby Bevard: Thanks for stopping by! Sweet job with #7! Can't wait to see the next issue.
Gorebash
posted @ Thu, Dec 13, 2007 6:45:22 pm EST from 70.22.232.91

The Rock> Picked up my copy today, braving some rather nasty snow. Some quick impressions:

SPOLIERS!!!! YOU WERE WARNED!!!

Cover> Great stuff, as always. I always prefer the story specific covers. While it doesn't beat "Bash" for impact, it's still pretty attention grabbing. Even if it's a bit of a tease, the joke that it refers to is good enough for me to let it slide. Who knew that gargoyles could get jet lag? And besides, it's not like the issue lack for excitement.

Art> Hedgecock's good stuff is getting better, but he's still inconsistent. There are drawings and panels that look like they could almost be screenshots from a better episode of the show. But then there are parts that are just not well drawn, let alone on model. Maybe Hedgecock has to rush and certain parts show it, or maybe he's more comfortable drawing certain people, things, and angles. But it's still extremely varied throughout the book. Can anyone tell me exactly what Jacob is supposed to be doing in the first panel we see him in? Running? Tripping? Reaching for something on the ground? Leaning on a giant pile of mashed potatoes? And what is it about scenes with Goliath and Elisa talking on Wyvern's top tower that seems to lead to major art problems? Goliath's head seems about double its normal size in relation to his body.

Story> I completely agree with what Greg said in his comment on this issue in Ask Greg: this is the first issue of the comic that could only be done in this way as a comic. The previous issues, while good, sometimes felt like compressed or half episodes of the TV show. This issue is really taking advantage of something that comics can do that other media can't.

I think I'm going to need to see the next issue or the end of the story to see if the time jumps have really served the story. But for now, we get the most packed story we've had from the comics and the action hasn't even really started yet. We get a history of the Stone of Destiny, the clan teaming up with Macbeth, Xanatos making a deal with ColdSteel with a bonus appearance by the latest Coyote robot, a pregnant mutate, a trans-Atlantic trip, Goliath and Elisa agreeing to give their relationship a chance, King Arthur, and more of the London clan. Whoo! The jumping around in time means the issue may require a second reading and there's definitely some stuff that won't be understandable until later (especially in the beginning), but it makes for a really fun ride. There's a great balance of character moments, humor, setup, and the beginnings of actions; better than I think any previous episode. I think I may be even more excited for the next issue than I was for "Bash". (To be fair, I at least knew Goliath wasn't going to die.)

Tidbits> I think it's probably still too early to speculate on who or what Lex is naming or nicknaming "Amp", though I love that theory that the names Amp and Coco might be revived from the comedy development.
I'm guessing Fox's new shoes are just a light side story that also helps establish the Xanatos family being in London, but you never know....
Shari's particular devices for storytelling strike me as fitting the theory of who she is that I like best. Time will tell.
Again, the idea that gargoyle's biological clocks can jet lag is pretty funny, and a good way of imparting the idea that the time of day rather than sunlight triggers a gargoyle's transformation to new readers.
Though I doubt she's trying to rub it in, I do wonder what Angela is whispering to Broadway that prompts him to suggest that they remain behind with Brooklyn. Hopefully we'll get some insight into what she had in mind, but I'm speculating from her recent actions that she's not very aware of how Brooklyn feels about her choosing Broadway over him.
One has to wonder what Macbeth's 1950 break-in was all about. Was it for unrelated reasons? Did he want to personally return the Stone of Destiny to Scotland? Or does he want the Stone for reasons he hasn't yet revealed?
I like the latest Coyote design quite a bit. Hopefully, we'll get an explanation of what the Coyote Diamond does for him sometime in the future. He and ColdSteel could make some big trouble for our guys.
A nice gift to any new readers to have the origins of ColdStone, ColdFire, and ColdSteel spelled out more clearly, though they'll have a new source of confusion to deal with shortly.
Even if it took Goliath getting his torso ventilated for them to get there, it's good to see our favorite couple finally getting serious about being together. And Maggie's pregnant! That should lead to some fun stories.
Gargoyles fans: Yaay! It's King Arthur!! New readers: Hey, who's the long haired guy with the big sword?
It's a tough call, but I think the last page is the best. We now have confirmation that the London clan gargs can resemble more heraldic animals than what we've seen already. The whole clan seems to have taken a more active role in protecting London since the events of "M.I.A.", though I imagine Arhut and Griff being back in town may help with that. And I really love the boar gargoyle's design. Can't wait to meet them!

CAREFUL WITH YOUR SCROLLING!!! SPOiLERS ABOVE!!
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Thu, Dec 13, 2007 6:42:55 pm EST from 209.6.248.33

Michael Ejercito> Have you read issues 4 and 5? Owen was never wounded. He shows up with the XCG, has Thailog surrender his weapons in exchange for sending out Delilah, and then leaves.

Where are you getting that Owen was injured?
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Thu, Dec 13, 2007 6:02:01 pm EST from 75.36.123.78

Thailog attacked the castle, wounding the gargoyles.

I was wondering if he had wounded Owen. (Demona might have told him about Owen's true nature.)
Michael Ejercito - [mejercit at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Thu, Dec 13, 2007 5:41:32 pm EST from 75.142.107.43

Wait, the coronation was in City of Stone? I totally thought it wasn't.
Vaevictis Asmadi
"We're not the last. We're not alone." - Hudson
posted @ Thu, Dec 13, 2007 5:12:56 pm EST from 71.34.60.68

Michael> "I wonder if Thailog had wounded Owen during his attack."

- What attack?
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'
posted @ Thu, Dec 13, 2007 3:16:13 pm EST from 24.207.163.239

Wow, first time stopping in here, in like, forever... Glad you guys liked the the look of issue 7, I worked really hard coloring it. Next one is going to be even better!

The clan in the labrynth that were stone, were the clones, not the main group. You can see the minor differences in how they look.

And, since it keeps coming up... The question came up on why MacBeth's coorination was outside, when it was indoors in the cartoon. Greg will probably answer this eventually in Ask Greg, but I can probably answer that right now since its a simple explanation. The scene was indeed a semi-specific swipe from “City of Stone, Part Three” However, they got things WRONG in the episode. The Stone is off model, and is lying flat on the floor. Macbeth is kneeling on it, instead of sitting on it. And he biggie obviously, the scene indoors, when it should have been outdoors on Moot Hill. For the comic, we matched the costumes and dialogue for Macbeth and Bodhe used in the animation, (and if you compare the two side by side, you'll even see that the random background people are colored the same) but otherwise figured, might as well do the thing right this time.
Robby Bevard
posted @ Thu, Dec 13, 2007 3:07:13 pm EST from 64.123.68.90

Michael> No, he didn't.

If Thailog did injure Owen, then it happened 'off-camera', so to speak, and the man healed quickly.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Thu, Dec 13, 2007 2:46:21 pm EST from 75.60.190.3

I watched The Journey and you guys were right, it is just like the comics, except with different art. Goliath gliding off at the end was annoying, but otherwise it was neat to get a voice track to the comics I had read. I fast-farwarded through the silly monologue and the weird Goliath Chronicles theme song.
Vaevictis Asmadi
"We're not the last. We're not alone." - Hudson
posted @ Thu, Dec 13, 2007 2:40:37 pm EST from 71.34.60.68

I wonder if Thailog had wounded Owen during his attack.
Michael Ejercito - [mejercit at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Thu, Dec 13, 2007 2:34:24 pm EST from 75.142.107.43

Greg B.> "First of all, if you say you can understand it from a story point, you can't just turn around and say "it didn't fit." Those two points are kind of mutually exclusive."

Fair enough. I don't think I made my point too clear there.

I'm wishing at this point that editing submissions at AG was an option.

Gorebash> Any chance of that being possible in the future?
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Thu, Dec 13, 2007 2:25:02 pm EST from 75.60.190.3

I think they are free to act or use magic if the mortal first interferes with something that is theirs. Raven considered that island his, the Sisters' job was to protect Avalon and the Magus and Katherine were initiating the interaction.

But I think you're right, it seems to apply only to magic interference. Not to mundane stuff like talking.
Vaevictis Asmadi
"We're not the last. We're not alone." - Hudson
posted @ Thu, Dec 13, 2007 2:15:39 pm EST from 71.34.60.68

I don't think Shari looks at all like Elisa. Both are dark haired and have brown eyes, but that's where the similarity ends. Elisa is half-African American and half Native American. Shari is Arabic.

Yeah, I think they did go for a "dark Goliath and Elisa" moment, but honestly, I don't see the resemblance between the two characters at all.
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Thu, Dec 13, 2007 1:16:44 pm EST from 75.36.123.78

>>Phil

I think Titania talks about seeing Fox in crisis after crisis without every showing magic ability. From this I took it Fox could have performed magic to aid herself, and thereby wouldn't be interfering with humans.
Example: She falls down/ gets into a car accident/ somehow uses magic and is fine. Think beginning to Harry Potter #1 (sorry to compare), how he does magic when in danger/ emotional.

Perhaps the law only blocks conscious magical interference?

Also there have been many examples of fairly direct interference using magic:

Raven killing the land (thought that can be considered indirect).
Banshee trapping Elisa and the Gargoyles
Weird sistes fighting Magus at the front of the gate to Avalon (though they probably had direct orders to prevent humans from entering, so loophole).

All the other instances of Oberon's children interacting with children seem to follow the rules pretty exactly.

The only one I feel directly violates the rule is Banshee. But she also resists the gathering... so I don't know what that means.

But an interesting topic for those who don't have the comic yet. *sigh*
Sebastian
posted @ Thu, Dec 13, 2007 1:15:11 pm EST from 128.12.69.35

I don't mean to distract from the discussions of the comic, but I have a question on a different topic, sparked by a recent answer from Greg. Here's the link: http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=10114

Maybe I haven't been paying close enough attention, but I had always thought that Oberon was the judge in how his law is enforced. If a Child of Oberon broke Oberon's law and he found out about it, they would face Oberon's wrath unless they were able to explain their loophole to him. But from Greg's answer, it seems the law is magically enforced, and Oberon doesn't even need to be aware of the incident. This may actually clarify many confusing things.

It's obvious that the Third Race interfere in human affairs all the time, and I never got how they could get away with it. But now I'm starting to understand that they are forbidden only from _magically_ interfering in the lives of humans. Oberon's law doesn't block them from talking, or doing something physical (for example, Titantia/Anastasia and Halcyon). It only blocks magical interference. This is the biggest loophole of them all and explains so much that I was unclear about.

Also, let me see if I understand the automatic magical enforcement of this law:
Scenario A: An Oberati tries to use magic on an unwilling human. The spell does not work, being magically blocked by Oberon's Law.
Scenario B: An Oberati tries to use magic on a willing human (or a fellow Oberati). The spell works.
If this is correct, it explains why Fox turned out "regrettably human." Since she had little to no interaction with the Third Race until Oberon appeared, any magic that she tried to perform, even unconsciously, would have interfered with a human life and would therefore be unsuccessful, blocked by Oberon's Law.

Am I making sense? And more importantly, am I understanding this correctly? Any help in clarifying this further would be appreciated.
Phil - [p1anderson at go dot com]
posted @ Thu, Dec 13, 2007 12:25:42 pm EST from 69.131.42.43

I like how Shari looks like a goth Elisa.
Tony <The Gargoyles Pulse>
<The Gargoyles Pulse> - up to date as of 12/10/07
posted @ Thu, Dec 13, 2007 10:54:55 am EST from 159.240.11.254

*SPOILERS*

Todd: I believe Shari's design is based off a real person who, coincidentally, attended a Gathering dressed as Elisa. Curious. Although I don't think there's much in the way of love between the two. Thailog thinks more in the vein of Xanatos' style where love is one of many commodities to be used and manipulated (and to defend from your own love being used against the same).

Amp: I just don't see Lex trying to name another gargoyle. It seems rather forward. I can go with the idea of Lex using Amp as a nickname, though. So what would Amp possibly be short for?

Amp might not be a being at all. Amp may very well be some sort of creation of his. Another motorcycle for example.

*END SPOILERS
Gorebash
posted @ Thu, Dec 13, 2007 8:52:38 am EST from 207.206.239.1

King Cobra... about the review you submitted to Ask Greg.

SPOILERS

"The cover threw me off somewhat, which is a good thing. I'm guessing that, in future issues, the Coyote Diamond will turn out to be something that has the capability of turning the Gargoyles into stone at night, something which #7's cover may be a foreshadow of. Am I right?"

As you can tell from the book itself, the cover was showing the effects of jet lag on the gargoyles. Greg was making a point about how stone sleep works. Also, why would Xanatos include a weapon designed to turn the gargoyles permanently to stone? We know he hates being wasteful.

"The biblical reference. Though I could understand it from a story point, it didn't really fit in, in any way that I could tell. Not to mention that (and this is a self-personal quip. I'm not trying to offend anyone or push my beliefs.) I'm not really into religion."

First of all, if you say you can understand it from a story point, you can't just turn around and say "it didn't fit." Those two points are kind of mutually exclusive.

Second. That is what the Stone of Destiny is, according to mythology. How do you tell a story about the stone, and where it came from without having Jacob in there? I'm not a religious person either, but it sounds to me like you are letting a personal bias get in the way of, well, understanding why Greg put that in there. Greg did say, eventually every myth and legend would be covered. What do you think Odin and Anubis once were?

END SPOILERS
Greg Bishansky
"Well, you could make a case that the world has already ended. That art is dead. That we're exhausted. That instead of art, we have… pop culture, daytime TV, gay senior citizens, women that have been raped by their dentists, confiding in Oprah. An exploration in depth of why women cut off their husband's penis."
posted @ Thu, Dec 13, 2007 8:40:09 am EST from 75.56.245.4

* SPOILERS *

After my earlier comment about Thailog carrying Shari about while gliding being a dark parallel to Goliath and Elisa, I remembered the early speculations when #3 came out that Shari was Elisa in disguise. Those speculations turned out to be wrong, of course - but might Shari's character design have been made deliberately evocative of Elisa's because of her upcoming role as Thailog's new assistant (and storyteller)?

Another thought about the London gargoyles: both wild boar (well, in this case, we've got a "wild sow") and white stags turn up often in British folklore and particularly the Arthurian cycle - could the ancestors of these gargoyles have something to do with that? Though I hope they did not play exactly the same roles, since the function of boars and stags in the legends was usually quarry for the hunt. I doubt that King Arthur and his knights would have regularly hunted gargoyles for food or sport.

Another thought since last night. It's refreshing to find that the comic book series is less obsessed with the Quarrymen and the public response to the gargoyles than the Goliath Chronicles was; there's not even any hint of that issue in #7. There's far more variety here, and I'm glad of that.

* SPOILERS END *
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Thu, Dec 13, 2007 7:27:04 am EST from 4.244.215.39

Quick comment on Gargoyles #7: Holy crap, I haven't felt that disoriented trying to keep track of what order events were ACTUALLY happening in since "Quantum Leap" went off the air. I think Greg did that just to mess with us. ;)

197 days left until The Gathering 2008 in Chicago, Illinois!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line!" - Vizzini, "The Princess Bride"
posted @ Thu, Dec 13, 2007 6:58:50 am EST from 76.241.137.12

****A red tire to some car or other rolls into the Room. It then defies the laws of physics as it comes to a complete stop, bounces three times, and then pops into the familiar form of Blaise.**** You all can probably guess why I'm here.

THE ROCK> Got the comic...and a flat tire to boot (darn, stupid, jagged and broken curbs next to parking spaces...). Thank heaven there was a Jiffy Lube across the street from the comic shop.

******************SPOILERS!!! SPOILERS!!!**************

True to the nature of this narrative, I'm probably going to be a little all over the place with this ramble. It is a bit difficult trying to piece together what happened when, but it's also kind of fun for me. I do wonder if this approach will intrigue or repel new readers, though. I sincerely hope it's the former.
-I kind of figured Xanatos was putting the Coyote Diamond into the latest version of Coyote, for some reason. And that bit of intuition, added to Coldsteel's reappearance last issue, led me to believe that this story arc would showcase the team up.
I must admit, I am a bit fascinated by Xanatos's eyepiece in these scenes. It actually reminds me of Jackal's cybernetic eye.
-Shari has begun to tell even more bedtime stories to Thailog. While we start hearing them with the origins of the Stone of Destiny, her first story to him (before sunrise on the 3rd, while Thailog's on the computer) deals with the Cold Trio. A followup to the previous night's story, perhaps? After that, for every 24 hours, she expands on the history of the Stone of Destiny. I liked the idea of Thailog lounging in a hot tub for one of these story sessions. I'm also wondering right along with everyone else just what he and Brentwood were digging for in the pre-dawn hours of the 6th. And like Todd, I saw the panel on page 15 as a sort of "dark mirror" of a usual Goliath and Elisa image.
I still wonder how Shari knows all this stuff.
-Count me as another who was a bit confused by the reprise of Macbeth's coronation taking place outside. It didn't help that the priest (or whoever) had the same beard style as Macbeth.
-I like how Macbeth indicates that Xanatos might go after the Stone.
-Broadway, Angela and Lexington seem to be ecstatic at the idea of returning to Scotland. Brooklyn, however, is too busy looking at the happy couple.
-I hadn't noticed Owen had replaced Brooklyn with Hudson in his rundown of who's heading for Scotland (if that is what he was giving) until my second read through.
-Okay, Fox had a teaser on page 2, and the subject's brought up again on page 7. What the heck is so important about those @#$%&* shoes?!
-Panel 2 of page 9 is what had me start thinking Maggie may be pregnant, even before Sato mentioned "Maggie's condition" (with quotation marks!). Just the way she had her hand on her abdomen, I guess. That also led me to conclude that an O.B. (which I had no idea about before tonight) probably had something to do with pregnancy. She sure looks happy, though, doesn't she? Both here, and again on page 20.
I also momentarily got the stone clones and the clan mixed up.
-Loved the rather humorous page 10. The cover was an excellent teaser and a great selling gimmick, but it's for a more comedy/trivia element than a major plot point. I actually like the misdirection. It's fascinating to see the effects of "jet lag" on gargoyles.
Of course, by this point I was wondering why I only saw Lex and Hudson with Macbeth.
-Then I found out. Brooklyn obviously bowed out so he wouldn't have to be around the "happy couple" during the road trip. But wouldn't you know, they elect to remain behind, too--much to Brooklyn's chagrin, it seems.
However, I notice Angela's whispering to Broadway, and Broadway's emphasis on staying "to help Brooklyn." This leads me to believe that Broadway and Angela, who are supposed to be two of the most intuitive cast members, have (finally) cottoned on to how uncomfortable Brooklyn is around them, and have decided to finally have a talk with him about it. One can only wonder how well that will go over.
Wait a minute...Lex and Hudson are in Scotland, Goliath (we see later) is spending time with Elisa...Brooklyn, Broadway and Angela will probably have at least one scene with only them...okay, someone reassure me: WHEN is Brooklyn going to Timedance, again?
-I actually like seeing the gargoyles working with Macbeth. The flashback to Macbeth being a part of the attempt to steal back the Stone was cool, and it includes one of my favorite bits of dialogue:
MACBETH: (whisper) All right, lads. Now or--
RANDOM IDIOT: *SCOTLAND FOREVER!*
MACBETH: Shhhhh!
-Coyote's new design includes the rather creepy idea of the ruined-Xanatos-head image appearing in the mouth of the "dog-head." I just wish I could say that I was as happy with the ruined-head itself--it looks too neat to me. Minor quibble, though. Overall, this comic really does give some of Hedgecock's best work.
-Goliath and Elisa have another heart to heart (over 24 hours since Macbeth asked for a favor). Elisa states that "Normalcy's over-rated" (a personal motto of mine for many years). I hadn't noticed that Elisa touched Goliath's hair until someone mentioned it. Now Goliath's elated look makes more sense. And NOW we have a kiss that is more than just a quick peck with both participants in full health. Good.
-Thailog and Shari are playing chess. I wonder who's winning.
-Count me as another who hadn't expected King Arthur and the London clan to be reintroduced in quite this way. I wonder just what Arthur thinks Macbeth is up to for the latter to earn such a greeting.
As for the new London clanners, it's nice to finally know, one way or the other, just how varied their looks are. I knew the...um, "robust" female would meet with some approval (I like slender, curvaceous female gargoyles as much as the next straight man, but they can't be EVERYWHERE). She definitely has interesting feet, though. And did anyone else notice that there's something she does NOT have...feathered wings. Her wings are the "glider" type with hands.

All in all, even with "Bad Guys" issue 2, it's going to be a hard wait to continue this storyline.

*************END SPOILERS!! END SPOILERS!!*************

And now I'm off to bed for an early start of trying to find acting work. Between the usual holiday slow-down, and the less-than-usual Writer's Strike, it's a bit of a wasteland. Until next time, farewell. ****Blaise reaches into his ear and pulls out something that looks like a plug. He then begins to deflate like a balloon (with the attendant noise), and the air escaping from him propels him about the Room until he finally flies right out the window.****
Blaise
"Build a man a fire, keep him warm for a day. Set a man on fire, keep him warm for the rest of his life."--Terry Pratchett's "Jingo"
posted @ Thu, Dec 13, 2007 3:06:32 am EST from 4.233.38.101

Asia> Thanks for that. :)

Now I'm REALLY interested. He strikes me as having been a cool dude.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Thu, Dec 13, 2007 3:03:59 am EST from 75.60.190.3

Not familiar with it, wikipedia wasn't too helpful though google gave me this: //www.mainlesson.com/display.php?author=marshall&book=scotland&story=gathelus
Though it's different from what's in this issue. *shrug, looks more*
This seems closer: http://www.londononline.co.uk/monarchy/Stone_of_Scone/

There's several different stories though the general majority seem to stick with him living most his life in Spain and having had an Eqyptian wife named Scota, for whom the Scots were named, and to have fathered several sons, at least one of which settled in Ireland taking his father's 'Jacob's Pillow' with him. After living in Ireland either him/his people/his son moved on to Scotland. So in terms of cutting out the middle man you could kind of call him the 'founder'(or father of the founder) of Scotland, I suppose.
Asia - [h3llskitten at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Thu, Dec 13, 2007 2:56:00 am EST from 70.104.176.201

Anyone know what the deal is with this Gathelus guy? Who was he anyway?

*intrigued*
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Thu, Dec 13, 2007 2:00:54 am EST from 75.60.190.3

*********Spoilers*********

With Maggie pregers, I wonder if she'll have one baby or a litter of kittens being she's half cat and Talon's...uh...what is Talon...a cat as well?
TiniTinyTony <The Gargoyles Pulse>
<The Gargoyles Pulse> - up to date as of 12/10/07
posted @ Thu, Dec 13, 2007 12:45:05 am EST from 70.15.84.29

==============SPOILERS================
There are two issues with Talon that have to be considered. One is modifying the genes that code for aspects of reproduction. Whether Sevarius messed with that is anyone's guess.

The other is altering the genes for fur, claws, electricity, wings, etc that happen to be located in the cells in his reproductive organs. Unless every cell in the body was modified, his body would have rejected the unmodified cells, making him sterile. Considering he was simply injected once, it seems that whatever method was used (probably a virus) was designed to spread through the whole body, to every part of it.

Now whether Maggie's body would reject her eggs is another issue, but she's more likely to have human eggs. So I'm expecting a half-mutate, half-human mutant offspring.
=================SPOILERS===============
Vaevictis Asmadi
"We're not the last. We're not alone." - Hudson
posted @ Thu, Dec 13, 2007 12:16:53 am EST from 70.59.84.84

****Possible spoiler-ness****

Michael> "Of course, if Sevarius wanted to perfect the mutate process to include reproductive capabilities, there would have to be prototypes to find out what works and what does not. It would be very remarkable if Sevarius got the results that he was looking for every first try."

I've actually worked that out a little bit. In my head, it hinges on whether Sevarius included the manipulation of their reproductive cells as well as their somatic/body cells. If he didn't include it, then most likely they'd have a normal human baby. If he did include this, then, at least on Talon's side, the child would get the mutate genes (Sevarius is good, but I don't think he could indirectly modify the genetic data in Maggie's potential egg cells. What's in egg cells from before birth are what's in them permanently). How that would present itself is up for grabs.

**********end spoilers*******
Asatira
posted @ Thu, Dec 13, 2007 12:00:41 am EST from 75.143.126.86

Lani,

Of course, if Sevarius wanted to perfect the mutate process to include reproductive capabilities, there would have to be prototypes to find out what works and what does not. It would be very remarkable if Sevarius got the results that he was looking for every first try.
Michael Ejercito - [mejercit at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Wed, Dec 12, 2007 11:48:04 pm EST from 75.142.107.43

SPOILERS
It does seem likely that Amp could be a nickname for one of the other gargoyles. I think that the London clan would have names, and even if not I don't see Lexington trying to force a name on one of them if they're tradition is without them, as that's how he himself was raised.

Lani-I never even thought about that, her tusks stood out to me more than anything. Though I do agree it would be a good point to have her have a mate.
/SPOILERS
Asia - [h3llskitten at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Wed, Dec 12, 2007 11:41:30 pm EST from 70.104.191.45

Ack sorry that was SPOILERS!!

Maybe they don't all have names. That is a good point. I have no clue what Amp would be short for. But I was joking about a robot pet.

SPOILERS
Vaevictis Asmadi
"We're not the last. We're not alone." - Hudson
posted @ Wed, Dec 12, 2007 11:26:50 pm EST from 70.59.84.84

<<"Maggie is pregnant! I guessed it from the way Dr. Sato says "condition" and the way she and Derek are looking at each other. I'm surprised it happened so soon. They're going to have to get married then."
-Why do they need to get married>>
Hmm... it isn't like Derek is going anywhere. It isn't like the legal benefits of marriage will be useful to them down in the Labyrinth. But... I still think they should have a ceremony.
Vaevictis Asmadi
"We're not the last. We're not alone." - Hudson
posted @ Wed, Dec 12, 2007 11:25:48 pm EST from 70.59.84.84

Good point, Greg. Still it seems likely. Guess we'll wait and see.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'
posted @ Wed, Dec 12, 2007 11:20:58 pm EST from 24.207.163.239

SPOILERS

Who says the entire London Clan has names? Greg never said that. Just because three of them had names doesn't meant the entire clan would. Goliath had a name and none of the others did.

END SPOILERS
Greg Bishansky
"Well, you could make a case that the world has already ended. That art is dead. That we're exhausted. That instead of art, we have… pop culture, daytime TV, gay senior citizens, women that have been raped by their dentists, confiding in Oprah. An exploration in depth of why women cut off their husband's penis."
posted @ Wed, Dec 12, 2007 11:17:26 pm EST from 75.56.245.4

Sorry for the double post.
SPOILERS!!!!!

Gorebash> "Amp: I don't think he's a gargoyle. The London clan will all have names. My initial thought was it'd be some sort of robot. Maybe a pup gargbeast? But I'm thinking it'll be some sort of robot."
-I'm beginning to think he isn't naming someone, but rather giving someone with a longer name a shorter nickname, similiar to how Lexington is shortened to Lex. Though who knows what Amp is short for.
And it most likely isn't a garg beast. The last batch of eggs hatched in 1978, 18 years ago. So to put that in perspective, unless the beast is bouncing around time traveling or spending time on Avalon, the youngest garg beasts in 1996 are the same age as Bronx, biologically. Garg beasts grow to be adults in only a few years.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'
posted @ Wed, Dec 12, 2007 11:04:19 pm EST from 24.207.163.239

SPOILERS

MATT> "Amen to that. I think that female represents a Gargoyles idea older than the Gargoyles series itself, namely the original development of Gargoyles featuring a female gargoyle with a larger build. Thank goodness we are not seeing another thin humanoid gargyle with pretty little pink lips and long hair. This one still has hair, but I LOVE that she has tusks. Very cool design. I hope the stag gargoyle is her mate, or maybe her mate will be Griff or something. I think that would be a very cool message."

Matt, you just got me to put two and two together. What if, Lex is naming the white one "Amp", and the female one is "Coco" ... she fits the description of what the comedic Coco was going to be.

*** END SPOILERS ***
Greg Bishansky
"Well, you could make a case that the world has already ended. That art is dead. That we're exhausted. That instead of art, we have… pop culture, daytime TV, gay senior citizens, women that have been raped by their dentists, confiding in Oprah. An exploration in depth of why women cut off their husband's penis."
posted @ Wed, Dec 12, 2007 11:04:15 pm EST from 75.56.245.4

POSSIBLE SPOILERS

Macbeth's coronation> Yeah, this is NOT a continuity problem. When he said the line in "City of Stone" the Stone of Destiny was not even present. He probably had to say it again elsewhere for publicity issues or something. One scene was at Scone, the other was probably back at Moray.

Vaevictis> "Lexington feels cold when he wakes up..."
-Ummm, NO. He says he doesn't feel hot, as in doesn't feel well. He feels sick, not cold.

When Lex mentions Amp I can't tell if he is gliding or lifting something above his head. It's such an ambiguous scenelet. Is he NAMING someone or NICKnaming someone?

Vaevictis> "Maggie is pregnant! I guessed it from the way Dr. Sato says "condition" and the way she and Derek are looking at each other. I'm surprised it happened so soon. They're going to have to get married then."
-Why do they need to get married? Let me guess, cuz all knocked up Mutates had to get married in the 1990's. They may get married, but I have my doubts that the drive to do so is because a baby is on the way.
And who wants to bet that this baby will be the cutest thing ever? Although it'd be interesting if he/she is born 100% human...

Vaevictis> "When gargoyles glide, why don't their loincloths hang down vertically?"
-When you are driving a car in the rain, why do the raindrops move UP the windshield?

Lani> "It's also nice to see a gargoyle female that isn't the slender "sexy" humanoid type that seemed overly pervasive in the TV series."
-Amen to that. I think that female represents a Gargoyles idea older than the Gargoyles series itself, namely the original development of Gargoyles featuring a female gargoyle with a larger build. Thank goodness we are not seeing another thin humanoid gargyle with pretty little pink lips and long hair. This one still has hair, but I LOVE that she has tusks. Very cool design. I hope the stag gargoyle is her mate, or maybe her mate will be Griff or something. I think that would be a very cool message.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'
posted @ Wed, Dec 12, 2007 11:00:10 pm EST from 24.207.163.239

***SPOILERS***

B&A staying behind with Brooklyn: I don't think they're trying to "rub it in". I think they're genuinely worried about protecting their home especially given the recent attacks. just more bad luck for Brooklyn.

Amp: I don't think he's a gargoyle. The London clan will all have names. My initial thought was it'd be some sort of robot. Maybe a pup gargbeast? But I'm thinking it'll be some sort of robot.

***END SPOILERS***
Gorebash
posted @ Wed, Dec 12, 2007 10:55:42 pm EST from 70.22.232.91

SPOILERS!

I think this was easily the best issue so far, I can't wait for the rest of this arc to play out! The nonlinear nature of the narrative was only confusing for a few pages, but then I found it really worked for the story and enjoyed it. Nice to see more members of the London. Greg had revealed before that they would be based on heraldic beasts and I have to say I'm really pleased with the results. It's also nice to see a gargoyle female that isn't the slender "sexy" humanoid type that seemed overly pervasive in the TV series. Arthur's return was a nice surprise, though now that I think about it's not too odd for him to be there. After all, who would blame him for thinking that MacBeth was after the stone again? I'm kind of surprised that Maggie would be able to become pregnant, since reproductive capability is usually the first thing to go with drastic body changes. Then again Sevarius and Xanatos probably anticipated this and made certain the mutates could reproduce. After all, Xanatos did want his own gargoyle clan. Still so many exciting revelations and twists! The next issue can't come soon enough!

My only quibbles with the issue were a few things with the art. I actually like Hedgecock's style quite a bit, but Gathelus, Scota, & Co. seemed to suffer from being off-model and/or disproportionate from one page to the next. Maybe Hedgecock didn't have the time to do character sheets for reference? Nonetheless, I did like his original character designs when they were in proportion and I enjoy the way he arranges panels & action. Sadly Goliath and Elisa also seem to suffer from being model in nearly every issue (not just Hedgecock's issues). And hopefully from #8 on we'll get inking again? Even with quibbles, the art is generally above average and the storytelling is always stellar. May Gargoyles the comic have a long run!
Lani
posted @ Wed, Dec 12, 2007 10:35:33 pm EST from 76.78.50.218

Vaevictis: EM pulses tend to shut off technology within a certain radius.
Greg Bishansky
"Well, you could make a case that the world has already ended. That art is dead. That we're exhausted. That instead of art, we have… pop culture, daytime TV, gay senior citizens, women that have been raped by their dentists, confiding in Oprah. An exploration in depth of why women cut off their husband's penis."
posted @ Wed, Dec 12, 2007 10:25:19 pm EST from 75.56.245.4

-----------------------SPOILERS------------------------
I am happy to see Macbeth, too. He's probably my favorite antagonist in the series. And we get cameos from Demona, Gruoch, the clones, Al and Claw. And what are Thailog and Brentwood looking for, and where are they?

I think Goliath and Angela especially look good here, particularly comparing Angela to how she was drawn in #3. Macbeth's a little funny in the bottom panel of p4, and Derek's looking a bit odd. And the new Coyote robot is one of the uglier ones in my opinion. Generally I think the one in Cloud Fathers was the best-looking.

"Don't you have minions for this?" Great line.

Question: In bad guys, what is Robyn talking about when she asks if the helicopter was a tip off? A tip off about the em pulse wearing off? How would the helicopter indicate that? I'm missing the joke.
-----------------------SPOILERS------------------------
Vaevictis Asmadi
"We're not the last. We're not alone." - Hudson
posted @ Wed, Dec 12, 2007 10:23:06 pm EST from 70.59.84.84

SPOILERS

I thought this was a very interesting issue, and I am definitely intrigued to see where this goes.

First off, I'm glad to see Macbeth is back. He was always one of my favorite characters in the series, and I've been anticipating his return for quite a while now. I liked the little reference to his henchmen, Banquo and Fleance leaving him to join the Quarrymen. I was also amused to learn that Macbeth was involved with the real attempted theft of the Stone of Destiny in 1950.

Xanatos is still up to his old tricks. I'm assuming this is the assignment the Illuminati sent him on, and he seems to be pulling all the stops. Coldsteel and a new Coyote robot. Coyote 5.0 to be precise. I love how just because he's harboring the gargoyles, he isn't their friend. He's obviously going to be working against them in this one, considering their goals are as far as we know, quite different.

Shari is giving Thailog the history of the world. She works wonderfully well for exposition, but I don't think she's a plot device. I am sure there's a very strong reason for her to know all this, and to be telling Thailog these stories. If my theory on her real identity is correct, anyway. Can't wait to find out. Plus, it looks like Thailog is going to get involved in the fight for the Stone. Hmm, I wonder what he and Brentwood were looking for.

Goliath and Elisa... FINALLY. "Normalcy is overrated" indeed.

I've been waiting a while to see the return of King Arthur. Last time he and Macbeth met, Macbeth promised to be an ally. Let's see how that works out in #8. Also, I am very sure that's Sir Griff standing behind Lexington and Hudson... good to see the London Clan back.

Poor Brooklyn. Are Broadway and Angela trying to rub it in?

The art. Yes, Hedgecock has gotten better. A couple of panels need more work, but I think this time he also lucked out with a great colorist. Robby Bevard's colors are very strong, he's a seasoned veteran in the comic industry, and a long time fan. While I miss Stephanie Lostimolo's colors on the covers, Robby is a worthy replacement, and I doubt he's going to have trouble filling those big shoes.

Heh, two "Gargoyles" books out on time, and within two weeks of each other. If we have one once a month like everyone hopes, I'll be a very happy man.

Good issue, and the start of a very intriguing arc. I'm a sucker for this kind of stuff, anyway.

END SPOILERS
Greg Bishansky
"Well, you could make a case that the world has already ended. That art is dead. That we're exhausted. That instead of art, we have… pop culture, daytime TV, gay senior citizens, women that have been raped by their dentists, confiding in Oprah. An exploration in depth of why women cut off their husband's penis."
posted @ Wed, Dec 12, 2007 10:01:04 pm EST from 75.56.245.4

Matt I'm sorry I didn't use Spoiler Tags earlier. I will now.

I GOT #7! I finally found a comic shop semi-near my apartment and figured out how to get there by bus. It's kinda creepy standing alone at a totally unfamiliar intersection after dark, but I got my comic. $4.21 with tax and adding that to the bus fare, I'll have to calculate how it compares to shipping costs. But it is cool getting it the day it came out. And the store only had 2 left when I got there, too.

~~~~~~~~~~SPOILERS~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<<Why is MacBeth's coronation taking place outside? Wasn't it inside the castle for the TV series?>>
That was him declaring a Golden Age, I don't think the coronation with the Stone was in the TV show.

<<Why didn't Brooklyn go to England? Didn't he know the London Clan was there and maybe a chance to meet a female gargoyle? Why didn't Broadway and Angela go either? Was Angela like, "Been there, done that."?>>
To get a break from seeing Broadway and Angela holding hands and being all "OMG WERE IN LOVEZZ!!" when they wake up every evening. Then they decide to stay too. Poor Brooklyn.

So yes, this is pretty hard to follow, it's hard to review the story when we don't have #8 and #9, but all that Withheld stuff will be useful now. Even though... we have the times right there in the comic. Here's my initial jumbled thoughts for a jumbled issue:

*Jet lag and gargoyles. I do wonder if they got to see the sun. And there's Macbeth, drinking lots of coffee to keep himself awake, and looking bored. He should have brought a book. Lexington feels cold when he wakes up -- I guess that thermal energy sort of radiates into space after sunset?

*Hey look, its the little green guy from Demona's clan. I liked that character design.

*"Amp" -- I don't think it's anyone from London, they probably all have names. But I do recognize the name. Lexington seems to be flying when he says it, maybe he's talking to his new pet robot that he acquired in Scotland? Who knows.

*Maggie is pregnant! I guessed it from the way Dr. Sato says "condition" and the way she and Derek are looking at each other. I'm surprised it happened so soon. They're going to have to get married then. I assume Judge Roebling will be there. And it is nive to see Dr. Sato becoming an ally of both NY clans.

*The conversation between Goliath and Elisa is interesting. The same panels and poses from #3 are deliberately repeated, the effect is good. And I like her conclusion. "Normalcy is so overrated." She's thinking about Derek and how he seems to be gaining happiness in spite of not having a normal life. And she touches his hair, so he kisses her. Aw.

*I'm not surprised to see King Arthur, but I am surprised to see him do ~that~. Guess he and Macbeth have some more issues to work out yet!

*New gargoyles! Plus Griff is back, I like Griff. I think that one of them is the Second in Command. I admit to being disappointed with the new character designs. How much evolutionary sense does it make that their heads just happen to exactly match their feet, when they aren't mammals nor related to those animals at all?

*Shari's watching Thailog take a bath? Also, he has a surprisingly modern-looking computer for 1996, but what with all the cyborgs and super-robots and nanobots running around the Gargverse, I figure Thailog's rich enough to afford something "futuristic."

*I do wonder if the stories told of the Stone are true or not. Probably they are, but how did a handful of Greeks and Egyptians conquer all of Ireland?

*When gargoyles glide, why don't their loincloths hang down vertically?

Overall, this is a confusing story but I'm still happy with lots of new information. Shar is looking more and more like Shaharazad. As for the art, David Hedgecock is getting better and this is the best colorist to be paired with him yet, Thailog's not black anymore. But Broadway is still off model in every panel and it bothers me muchly. Everyone else looks good, though.
~~~~~~~~~~SPOILERS~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Vaevictis Asmadi
"We're not the last. We're not alone." - Hudson
posted @ Wed, Dec 12, 2007 9:12:56 pm EST from 70.59.84.84

funny note quickly, when I picked up Bad Guys a short while ago. I came in to ask the seller to see if he can guess what comic I was looking for. at first he thought I wanted Bufffy or Spider-man. I looked at him oddly and said "I've been coming here for almost a year .and what comic have I always gotten that starts with a G? .. then he finally gets it that I wanted Gargoyles *rolls eyes*. so today he said he was thinking of me when #7 came in today :lol:.
funny...
Starlioness
posted @ Wed, Dec 12, 2007 8:55:06 pm EST from 206.188.56.114

Blast it all... The UPS guy lost my comic store's box that had Gargoyles in it...
Ozzie Arcane - [ozziearcane at yahoo dot com]
"Hello Booby! This is a trap!" - Eggplant Wizard
posted @ Wed, Dec 12, 2007 8:47:21 pm EST from 69.14.122.91

Got #7 today, merely a couple hours ago, in fact. However, I got finals to still study for, so I won't review/repeat everything just yet.

But I must say this, or someone will:

Shari: The story is told -- though who can say if it be true --
Garg-Fans brainwashed by Greg Weisman: SHARI, ALL THINGS ARE TRUE, DAG GUMMITT!!!
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Wed, Dec 12, 2007 8:27:31 pm EST from 157.242.199.170

Wow... #7 gets released and already so many spoilers...

Good thing I avoided them...

Now I gotta go pick it up!
The One Known As Mochi - [shogi dot keima dot 08 at gmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>^^)> Bad Guys #1 and Gargoyles #7...
posted @ Wed, Dec 12, 2007 7:36:07 pm EST from 72.199.225.9

OMG i cant wait to read this, it sounds really good from what all of you say about it

Spoliers
I asked Greg a few months ago if Maggie could have kids, this is awesome, I wonder if the baby will play an important part in the future?
1. can someone put a picture of the new London clan members up in garg-wiki, i'm die to see them, seeing new gargoyles after 10 years is just the best!!!!!!!

Thanks
bob
bob
posted @ Wed, Dec 12, 2007 7:20:19 pm EST from 66.202.99.46

SPOILERS

Concerning Maggie's pregnancy, this kid will have a pretty interesting family. Its parents are Mutates, its aunt is a human and eventually it'll have a gargoyle for an uncle... if this kid ends up with Alexander it'll be the most bizarre family tree i history, even in Gargoyles Universe standards.

By the way, a lot of pregancy and child-birth stuff in this issue.

END SPOILERS
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'
posted @ Wed, Dec 12, 2007 7:16:04 pm EST from 24.207.163.239

Nevermind, I got my Coyote numbers messed up: 6.0 founds the Ultra-Pack not 5.0. But this was interesting: http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=2215 and http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=2158
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Wed, Dec 12, 2007 6:25:42 pm EST from 98.20.204.168

Coyote 6.0 forms The Ultra-Pack. 7.0 will lead them.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Wed, Dec 12, 2007 6:20:43 pm EST from 71.115.192.199

**Spoilers**
I have a theory about how the Coyote Diamond fits into Coyote. Actually, two possible theories. Theory 1 is the diamond is used to help narrow a laser beam as a weapon. Theory 2 is a bit more complicated and I don't know if it's pseudo-science or not. I remember an episode of "Where on Earth is Carmen Sandiego" where she stole a large piece of coal and turned into a diamond. Then they managed to use the diamond to somehow speed up the processing of their computer system. On the other hand, it could be something so simple as Xanatos put a small tracking device on the Coyote diamond and put the diamond into Coyote as a means of keeping track of Coyote. Btw, which version of Coyote is that supposed to be? 5.0? Wasn't 5.0 supposed to create the Ultra-Pack?
**End Spoilers**
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Wed, Dec 12, 2007 6:18:55 pm EST from 98.20.204.168

Imagine if this quote was in the next issue.

"Dr. Sato, Officer Morgan is the baby daddy"- Maggie
Michael Ejercito - [mejercit at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Wed, Dec 12, 2007 6:15:31 pm EST from 75.142.107.43

Or if a normal human male could impregnate a female mutate...
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'
posted @ Wed, Dec 12, 2007 6:10:26 pm EST from 24.207.163.239

All these comments about maggie being pregnant would make one wonder if a Mutate could impregnate a normal human female.
Michael Ejercito - [mejercit at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Wed, Dec 12, 2007 5:59:53 pm EST from 75.142.107.43

Speaking of Big Ben...

SPOILERS!

You'll notice that in the frame when X, Fox and Alex are in the London street outside the shoe store that the time on Big Ben is wrong.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'
posted @ Wed, Dec 12, 2007 5:58:31 pm EST from 24.207.163.239

((blah double post))
Loved the cover! The moment I saw it and the 'Stone... at night?!' tagline I was possitively overjoyed. ((spoiler?)) Sure it doesn't have much to do with the story itself, beyond giving you Big Ben thus letting you know they(Hudson & Lexington) are in London, but it's got such a classic comic cover feel to it that it's one of my favorite covers so far.
Asia - [h3llskitten at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Wed, Dec 12, 2007 5:44:07 pm EST from 72.82.97.51

What is this jet-lag effect?
Michael Ejercito - [mejercit at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Wed, Dec 12, 2007 5:36:53 pm EST from 75.142.107.43

*le sigh* The joy of getting to read another Gargoyles-title so soon. ^.^

Anywho....

**SPOILERS**
First of all, the art. Is it just me or it's either getting better or simply growing on me. Though I'm not exactly going to go back and examine each panel from my inital impression it was fairly pleasing to the eye. Especially Macbeth's expression on pg5, panel 3, it's adorable? Yes, adorable. I never thought I'd be putting that word in the same sentence as that name but it's really the best way to describe it and seeing as he's attempting to appeal to Goliath's better nature at that moment it kind of works.

Now for the story itself. As someone who for some inate reason can easily enough write a story that jumps around on the timeline I have serious issues following one that does, so for the first few pages I had to re-read it a couple times and mentally establish all that was happening and when it was happening before I could read on. A bit frustrating for me though I'm sure it wasn't an issue for everyone so I'll accept it. That said...

My, this was quite good. Loved the brief parts with Thailog and Shari. "... though who can say if it be true..." and how Thailog in each page was basically ignoring her and going about his bussiness or mindlessly listening while she talked. Though as I read I was finally reminded who Shari's design and, on a lesser level, her mannerisms thus far remind me of. Death. Yet, part of me just wants to mark this up to my re-reading of the whole Sandman series recently. Hmmm... anywho...

With the Manhattan clan and Macbeth story I was mildy confused with the whole 'Let's have most the clan go to Scotland!' followed quickly by the 'Oh, nevermind. Only two will go to Scotland, the old one and the smallest one.' Maybe confused isn't the best word though it was a fast enough 180 that it seemed rather wordy/pointless to begin on the inital thought of them all going. The Goliath/Elisa moment was sweet and a good step in cementing their relationship. ((okay, I admit a 'wonky'-art moment with Elisa there)). Also it was good to see once more just how 'not scary' Lexington is in stone. Along those lines, cement and stone, the jetlag thing was priceless.

So much happened in this issue it's hard to go over it all. Let's see... Maggie's pregnant. Actually saw that coming, if not now sometime in the future what with the whole 'birds and bees' thing it was bound to happen, right? Being only ever slightly interested in the whole Coyote thing I really have nothing much to say of it. So moving along...

I seriously cursed myself out when I went to open this issue and accidently saw the last page first, granted that made me more eager to read the story behind it, but it wasn't quite the same. So, we have the London Clan appearing once more. Liked character designs on those two and with this being the first clan, outside their own, these two have seen since awakening I wonder if there's a possibility of Lex finding a mate among them.
**/SPOILERS**
Asia - [h3llskitten at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Wed, Dec 12, 2007 5:34:32 pm EST from 72.82.97.51

* SPOILERS *

One other detail I liked, but forgot to mention; Macbeth's allusion to the rift between himself and Banquo and Fleance. (A rift indeed, since they're now working for the descendant of two of his greatest enemies.)

* SPOILERS END *
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Wed, Dec 12, 2007 5:33:46 pm EST from 4.245.18.81

These are general thoughts, first impressions. I'll put a more thorough review later.

************SPOILERS*******************

Biggest thing that stood out for me: Maggie's pregnant. That got a big "WHOA-A-A!" out of me. I was honestly not expecting that. And it was slipped in so well.

I like the jet-lag effect being canon now.

I had fun with the story of the Stone. Unlike some, I was not familiar with its background and mythos prior to Excalibur and as the coronation effect in Scotland. Who knew it was so long and winding?

Why the focus on Fox's shoes? It's a nice little departure, not at all serious, which I like. I'm just curious how it'll go.

*********************End spoilers*****************
Asatira
posted @ Wed, Dec 12, 2007 5:26:36 pm EST from 75.143.126.86

Was Dr. Sato surprised about the Mutates?

(If anyone should serve as their physician, it should be the doctors who examined Wolf after he was arrested in "Upgrade").
Michael Ejercito - [mejercit at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Wed, Dec 12, 2007 5:24:38 pm EST from 75.142.107.43

Spoilers, Spoilers, SPoilers... this is getting old...

Todd> "Thailog's carrying (Shari) about. A deliberate twisted counterpart to Goliath and Elisa?"
- I had the same thought seeing that frame. Pretty cool.
I also want to know what Thailog and Brentwood are doing earlier that night (11-6-96) digging around in some debris. Are they at the Clocktower maybe?
Anyone know what the Coyote Diamond is supposed to do inside Coyote (the robot)? I like Coyote's new design too.
Man, this issue is just full of stuff. Wow. So cool.

END SPOILERS
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'
posted @ Wed, Dec 12, 2007 5:17:43 pm EST from 24.207.163.239

Tony> I've actually wondered the same thing about Brooklyn myself...

Oh no... now we have to start asking Greg "What did Angela whisper to Broadway in The Rock?"
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'
posted @ Wed, Dec 12, 2007 5:09:41 pm EST from 24.207.163.239

Bought my copy of Gargoyles #7 today.

* SPOILERS FOLLOW *

My suspicions that this would be about the Stone of Destiny have been confirmed. I liked the touch of Shari narrating the Stone's past history to Thailog (and occasionally Brentwood); it ties in all the more with the theory that she might be the Gargoyles Universe's equivalent to Scheherazade.

Much of the Stone's past legendary history was familiar to me - such as its serving as Jacob's pillow at Bethel, and parts of the story of Gathelus and Scota. (I'd like to find out more about them - and whether, for example, their story actually did include an origin-myth for the name of Portugal.) I'm looking forward to more of the story in #8 (no doubt, including the part about the Stone of Destiny being the stone that Arthur drew Excalibur from).

I wasn't too surprised by the team-up between Coldsteel and Coyote 5.0, since Greg Weisman's MasterPlan document had listed a "Coldsteel and Coyote" story among the things that he had planned for the third season of "Gargoyles". I'm not entirely surprised, either, to have the Coyote Diamond incorporated into the new Coyote; it fits the recycling tone of the series so well. (I wonder how long it'll be before we see Xanatos make use of that virus from "Legion" as well.)

I caught a couple of possible errors on the page where Macbeth was telling the gargoyls about the Stone of Destiny. The flashback to his coronation in 1040 portrays it as taking place in the open; in "City of Stone Part Three", it was in a castle hall. (Though I liked the presence of Demona and Gruoch in the picture. I couldn't see any sign of Bodhe or Lulach, though.) Also, Macbeth describes the Stone as being returned to Scotland "after eight hundred years" - that should be seven hundred years. (Edward I took the Stone from the Scots in 1296.)

I wonder if Greg deliberately chose Berkeley Square as the location of Macbeth's home; one of the houses there (No. 50) is said to be haunted by a very nasty ghost.

So Maggie's pregnant? I hadn't expected that, but I like seeing Dr. Sato now becoming a new confidant, not only to the gargoyles, but the Mutates as well.

I also liked the part about the gargoyles having jet lag. I wonder if Hudson and Lexington will get a glimpse of the sun on their first morning in London, as a result.

Another small but enjoyable touch: the indication that Macbeth was involved in the real theft of the Stone of Destiny in 1950. (That's another thing I want to read up on now.)

On the page where Shari's talking about Gathelus and Scota spending time at Portugal, Thailog's carrying her about. A deliberate twisted counterpart to Goliath and Elisa?

And Goliath and Elisa get a lovely scene of their own, as they come to understand that they'll just have to overcome the differences together. Great reference back to their break-up conversation in #3.

And this ends with a real cliff-hanger - King Arthur's sudden involvement, and the arrival of the London clan, including not just Griff but two new gargoyles. Apparently they don't all look like lions, unicorns, and griffons. I suppose that Lexington's talking to one of them when he says "I'll call you Amp". (Nice in-joke, by the way. I wonder if it's the stag-gargoyle whom he's giving it to; maybe the stag-gargoyle will be his partner.)

I'm definitely looking forward to #8 now.

* SPOILERS END *
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Wed, Dec 12, 2007 5:09:15 pm EST from 4.245.18.81

!*!*!*!*!*! SPOILER !*!*!*!*!*!*!*
By the time that tiny scene with Lex takes place, I think they are going to be in Scotland. So maybe it is a Scottish gargoyle. Who knows. Maybe a London garg. If so, it is probably a beast. It is quite a mystery.
I swear, I've gone over the book several times and it is just SO crammed full of stuff. Crazy.
!*!*!*!*!*! END SPOILERS !*!*!*!*!*!*!
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'
posted @ Wed, Dec 12, 2007 5:07:58 pm EST from 24.207.163.239

**** Spoiler Question ****

Why didn't Brooklyn go to England? Didn't he know the London Clan was there and maybe a chance to meet a female gargoyle? Why didn't Broadway and Angela go either? Was Angela like, "Been there, done that."?
Tony <The Gargoyles Pulse>
<The Gargoyles Pulse> - up to date as of 12/10/07
posted @ Wed, Dec 12, 2007 5:06:07 pm EST from 159.240.11.254

Tony> Who's Amp? I wish I knew. But I wonder if he'll have companions named Coco and Lassie?

*** Spoiler ***
The comic has one panel of Lexington naming someone Amp, but it doesn't show who he's talking to. Presumably, its a London gargoyle, but we'll have to wait two months (or more) to really know.
*** End Spoiler ***
Phil - [p1anderson at go dot com]
posted @ Wed, Dec 12, 2007 4:53:21 pm EST from 69.131.42.43

**************Spoiler Question**************

Who's Amp?
TiniTinyTony <The Gargoyles Pulse>
<The Gargoyles Pulse> - up to date as of 12/10/07
posted @ Wed, Dec 12, 2007 4:48:16 pm EST from 159.240.11.254

*SPOILERISH*

Phil: Yes, of course!! I totally missed Hollywood's obvious costume difference to Broadway. I guess I'm not used to seeing the clones in the Labyrinth yet. Which might be why they were included in the background like that.
Gorebash
posted @ Wed, Dec 12, 2007 4:17:32 pm EST from 207.206.239.1

Sorry for the double post. For anyone wanting to look at the chronology, I've updated the Timeline page at the GargWiki. Head over there if you wanna see the real order of things. Beware, SPOILERS!
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'
posted @ Wed, Dec 12, 2007 4:03:18 pm EST from 24.207.163.239

!*!*!*!*!*!*!*! SPOILERS !*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!

Silly me. Out of habit came into this Room earlier and saw Vaevictis say "London Clan" before I could close the screen, so I ruined that bit for myself. Oh well. Went and got the book, my review:

My Review For Gargoyles #7, "The Rock"...

- Picked up a couple copies of "The Rock" today. There were only a couple issues left and the store had only been open an hour, which was cool. It was also nice to see that the store apparently had ordered some more issues of "Reunion". When I checked out, the clerk said "Good choice" which led to a long discussion about the series and the comic. She is apparently a huge Elisa fan. Our discussion reminded her to put the DVDs on her x-mas list. We talked a while more and she is really wanting to go to the Gathering, so who knows, she might end up riding there with me (St. Louis to Chicago). Nice to make friends over Gargoyles.

- On to the comic. When I first saw the cover (we didn't have any released previews this time!) I laughed. Reading "Stone... At Night?!" I actually said (under my breath) "What sorcery is this?!" Spotting Big Ben I quickly figured out what was going on. Nice to see Hudson featured better than he has been on covers so far. Lex looks good too. Nice cover.

- Okay, so the book itself. I knew it was going to be non-linear, and I knew Greg could pull that off. I guess I didn't know what to expect, but I loved it. I've read the book twice already and like all the previous chapters it is exciting to read, full of surprises and finishes with a bunch of anticipation and questions. This is the kind of story that I will almost have to wait until Issue #9 to really review. That said, there are a couple things I really enjoyed:

- I know it is a very minor point, but I liked seeing many of the recurring human characters (Macbeth, Fox, Xanatos) in something besides their typical series costume. That is definitely a strength of the comic book. Of course, Elisa is still in her usual jeans, black t-shirt and red jacket. Maybe it helps her keep a sense of "normalcy"!

- One of the neatest traits of the Gargoyles Universe, and Greg's writing abilities, is that nothing ever gets wasted. I'm happy to see the Coyote Diamond again, and surprised to see it planted (for some reason) in the newest Coyote robot. Is this the first time the Diamond has been put into Coyote or has every version of him contained the Diamond? Just another question this chapter leaves us asking.

- I love how Shari's tales are told to us in sepia tones and scrolls. One has to ask where she is learning all this (particularly the Coldtrio stuff), but I like the way it is shown and told. Which leads me to the art of the book. I always liked Hedgecock's work from Issue #1, and I think he is getting better and better. Hedgecock maybe hasn't been drawing Gargoyles characters for the past eleven years, but he is catching up fast, IMHO. This is absolutely his best issue so far, and I'm glad to see him back on the book regularly. Great stuff.

- Who would've thought we'd be seeing Gruoch this soon in the comic, and who would've thought we'd EVER see the little green gargoyle from Demona's Clan (a fan favorite, I think) in the comic! Cool cameos.

- Ah, the never ending drama of Brooklyn, Broadway and Angela. This slow boiling plot is getting awfully fun to watch. I think I've said it in nearly every review so far, so I can't leave out a "Poor Brooklyn"... Seems Goliath is starting to get wise to the situation as well. And since when can Broadway just say he and Angela are gonna stay in Manhattan when Goliath has more or less ordered them to accompany Macbeth? Ah well. Speaking of Goliath, we get a nice follow-up to the Elisa-Goliath Halloween story. Well done. It really says something when fictional characters cause such an emotional reaction for the reader/viewer. And not to leave out Talon and Maggie the Cat, who may be expecting a Mutate-ling in a few months. When Sato mentioned Maggie's "condition" I wondered if maybe she was preggers, though I though maybe we are just talking about the Mutate thing in general. Then with the mention of "O.B." I got excited. Cool stuff. Nice to see that Elisa is taking advantage of Dr. Sato's expertise after the revelation to him in "Bash". Ya know, it's refreshing to think that years ago when I wrote a review for "Deadly Force" I mentioned something about how I'd love to see Dr. Sato become a friend of the Clan. Sort of the antithesis of Sevarius. Very fun.

- Still have no idea what is up with Fox's shoes. Guess I'll wait til Issue #9 to talk about that. But seriously, Xanatos is a multi-billionaire, just buy the damn shoes, hell, buy the STORE! No biggie.

- I like that gargoyles "jetlag" and I like that that is canon-ized now. I also think it's fun that Hudson and Lex can feel it. Macbeth is fun here too. It's like he keeps waiting for them to wake up and is thinking the are a bit late and a bit more late and a bit more late and finally he gets his look like "Ummm... you guys gonna wake up or not?" Long time to stand there drinking coffee.

- I guess I shouldn't have been surprised to see the London Clan once we ended up in London, but I was a bit. Arthur was a bit of a surprise as well. I guess the most surprising thing was the APPEARENCE of the two London Clan members we could see clearly (it looks to me like the third in the foreground is Griff, we'll see). All these years Greg has said that Unicorns, Lions and Griffons were all we'd get. Now we see a stag-like dude and a (very cool) boar-like female. I dunno if Greg's comments were simply along the lines of "I don't want to tie the hands of the artists" or if he was just being totally elusive and deceitful, but either way it led to a great and fun ending to the book. Very very cool.

- So, overall a great book. Great writing, great reveals, great mysteries, great art. There were no errors I could find save one, in "Etched in Stone" Greg writes "Clan Building, Chapter Five: Reunion" when of course he means Chapter Six. That is one error I can live with. Looking to the trade paperback, Bad Guys #2 and Gargoyles #8. What a great time to be a Gargoyles-fan!!!

!*!*!*!*! END SPOILERS !*!*!*!*!*!
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'
posted @ Wed, Dec 12, 2007 3:13:17 pm EST from 24.207.163.239

The Rock - General thoughts, spoiler-free

I picked this up during my lunch break and read it once. Now I'm back at my desk, but I can't concentrate on my work. The quick read-through together with the issue's shuffled timeline has left me with a series of impressions that I really want to go back and look at more closely. It's like an "old-fashioned" MTV music video; a lot of short clips and some longer scenes in quick succession. To see everything, you have to pause frequently or watch in slo-mo. Nearly every page had some interesting revelations, but it will take some study to appreciate them all, and a little thought to fit them all together. I'm especially curious to mentally arrange the panels in chronological order to understand why Greg decided to arrange it non-sequentially.

The art by David Hedgecock was great, in my opinion. It's probably a combination of him getting used to the characters, and me getting used to his style. It could be, too, that I was too engrossed in trying to figure out the story to notice any art problems, but at least there was nothing glaringly bad.

The cover is a bit misleading. "Stone… at night?!" It was one of the minor events in the issue.

All in all, an excellent issue, highly recommended. One of the best yet.

***Potential Spoiler***
Gorebash> I think the gargoyles in the Labyrinth at 3:52 are the clones.
*** End Spoiler ***
.
Phil - [p1anderson at go dot com]
posted @ Wed, Dec 12, 2007 2:49:36 pm EST from 69.131.42.43

*SPOILERS BELOW*

Holy $H17! Best issue yet! The last page alone is epic in its revelation. Dammit, I've got to wait TWO MONTHS for #8? Total bummer.

GURU-eFX did a great job with the color on this issue. The texture was especially good.

Why is MacBeth's coronation taking place outside? Wasn't it inside the castle for the TV series?

At 4:50 on Nov. 2 we see Goliath waking up. A panel later in the book but taking place at 3:52 shows the rest of the clan in the labyrinth (in stone sleep). But then at 5:12 we see them with Goliath on top of the castle. So in 22 minutes they hiked back to the Eyrie?

Brilliant placement of the panel of Sato saying Maggie needs an O.B. just after Goliath starts talking about what he can't give Elisa.

Loved the many "The story is told..." pages. I think they're especially nice in that Hedgecock gets a chance to do some of his own character design rather than trying to copy existing character models.

".. it's really a timeless love story." Brilliant. Although it doesn't feel right to call them monsters. At least not when it's between Shari and Thailog.

"I'll call you Amp." F#$KCING TEASE!

I really liked that Hudson's sword is shown not in stone. Very nice attention to detail.

Gargoyle jet lag. Nice.

I really liked the time displacement used for telling the story. It had me going back pages and matching times up and trying to put them in order. Certainly made me invest more into the story. Felt almost interactive too.

Can't wait to meet the newcomers. And Amp.

*SPOILERS ABOVE*
Gorebash
posted @ Wed, Dec 12, 2007 2:18:33 pm EST from 207.206.239.1

Weee! nice cover. Just ordered it from Midtown. Sadly, I still don't have Bad guys yet either *pout* A deprived Garg fan *holds up the tiny little violin playing just for him so no one else has to do it^_^
Wingless
posted @ Wed, Dec 12, 2007 1:22:46 pm EST from 99.245.254.123

What really stinks is when the closest comic shop is 40 minutes away, but you go to the one that is 1hr 15 min away with your friend and then your friend doesn't go because of other stuff going on. And you can't go yourself because your car is in the shop until next Tuesday. Bring on the detailed reviews and spoilers! It sustains me.
TiniTinyTony <The Gargoyles Pulse>
<The Gargoyles Pulse> - up to date as of 12/10/07
posted @ Wed, Dec 12, 2007 12:53:19 pm EST from 159.240.11.254

Cover: Yay!! Man, that looks awesome . . . thanks for finding it, Vicky.

Todd: Did something happen to my Reveiw of #6 that I submitted to Ask Greg? It's missing both in the Queue and the Recent Responses (of course, I may be blind and may have totally missed it).

#7: I'm getting mine today . . . so until then, I'm off to avoid spoilers . . . .
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Wed, Dec 12, 2007 12:53:05 pm EST from 157.242.199.39

Yay London Clan!

I really need to find an actual comic shop, this waiting to order three or four issues online at once to cut down on the huge shipping costs is getting annoying.
Vaevictis Asmadi
"We're not the last. We're not alone." - Hudson
posted @ Wed, Dec 12, 2007 10:52:15 am EST from 70.59.84.84

I'm intrigued and excited! It sounds a little hard to follow, so I'll probably have lots of questions, which I know you guys love answering. Thanks.
TiniTinyTony <The Gargoyles Pulse>
<The Gargoyles Pulse> - up to date as of 12/10/07
posted @ Wed, Dec 12, 2007 10:41:12 am EST from 159.240.11.254

**Initial Spoilers**
The Most Intriguing so far. The time line on the gargoyle wiki is most helpful. This story is anything but stand-alone because of all the flashforwards and flashbacks. Whoever had that theory about Shari's origin is looking accurate. One more thing: London Clan meets Manhattan clan.
**End Spoilers**
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Wed, Dec 12, 2007 10:30:03 am EST from 98.20.204.168

Off to avoid spoilers. I'll be back later today...
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'
posted @ Wed, Dec 12, 2007 8:29:06 am EST from 24.207.163.239

How soon after the release date at comic book stores does SLG usually make the new book available in their online store? I was going to order some extra copies of a few previous issues, but if I can get my extra copies of #7 in just a few days, too, I'll wait.

198 days left until The Gathering 2008 in Chicago, Illinois!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"There's nothing to explain. You're trying to kidnap what I've rightfully stolen." - Vizzini, "The Princess Bride"
posted @ Wed, Dec 12, 2007 6:48:11 am EST from 76.241.137.12

Gargoyles 7 out today and I found the front cover and I love it.

Just Click on my name (I think) if that doesn't work just do a search at Midtowncomics
Gargoylesvicky82 - [vickyfanofwwe at aol dot com]
posted @ Wed, Dec 12, 2007 5:44:43 am EST from 195.93.21.4

Arkansas Mezzo - < Sorry - I don't think I'm your mystery person!> Hmmmmmmmmmmmm. <Garg comics were raising a lot more attention than the average independent publisher, and that a lot of people have been coming in and buying.> A lot of fans in Arkansas. Hmm. If only I had a good paying job and vacation time. Then a lot of people together could bring the gathering to Memphis. One can dream.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Tue, Dec 11, 2007 7:58:25 pm EST from 98.20.204.168

ARKANSAS - I'm glad to hear about the "Gargoyles" comics being so popular. Thanks for telling us about it.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Tue, Dec 11, 2007 7:04:59 pm EST from 4.245.21.191

dph> Comics> Heh, my brain really must have gone into neutral yesterday … I thought it was Tuesday. Geez. But it's not very likely we get our comics from the same comic shop, because Alan (the owner of mine) said the Garg comics were raising a lot more attention than the average independent publisher, and that a lot of people have been coming in and buying. So it wouldn't be just the two of us. Sorry - I don't think I'm your mystery person! :)

Todd> I was surprised by something you said, but more surprised that I hadn't thought about it before - Xanatos *has* gotten almost everything he's tried for. Things are so much more interesting when a villain is intelligent, handsome, and wins a lot - stuff you'd expect from a hero. Hooray for the unexpected.
Arkansas Mezzo
"'Tis pity though in this sublime world that / Pleasure's a sin, and sometimes sin's a pleasure." -- Lord Byron, Don Juan, Canto I
posted @ Tue, Dec 11, 2007 6:30:44 pm EST from 130.184.85.195

I think Xanatos is quite willing to inflict pain an suffering when it is useful to him, such as mutating innocent people. Not to say I disagree with you about Thailog, but I think the difference is that Thailog does not care for anybody, whereas there are people Xanatos isn't willing to hurt. Also, Xanatos is capeable of feeling a sense of obligation, while Thailog hasn't shown any indication of that.
Vaevictis Asmadi
"We're not the last. We're not alone." - Hudson
posted @ Tue, Dec 11, 2007 6:01:51 pm EST from 71.34.59.240

Thailog's IQ> I don't know that he's necessarily smarter than Xanatos - I agree that he may lack some life experience in addition to his test tube education. But he certainly has less scruples than Xanatos has come to have. Not to say that Xanatos has become a paragon of virtue; I just think Thailog is a bit more willing to step on anyone who gets in his way and inflict a lot of pain while doing so.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Tue, Dec 11, 2007 5:22:34 pm EST from 209.6.248.33

TONY >> He outwitted Xanatos, but how much of intelligence is nature and how much is nurture? He may have more potential intelligence than Xanatos, but I think that life experience counts for something, too. Chronologically, Thailog is only about two years old now. He was programmed, but how much subliminal knowledge can be crammed into a few months of tube-growing?
Vaevictis Asmadi
"We're not the last. We're not alone." - Hudson
posted @ Tue, Dec 11, 2007 4:44:29 pm EST from 71.34.59.240

Speaking of Thailog, Owen has been quoted in saying that Thailog is smarter than Xanatos. a) Do we think that is still true? b) Who is THE smartest person in the Gargoyle Universe?
TiniTinyTony <The Gargoyles Pulse>
<The Gargoyles Pulse> - up to date as of 12/10/07
posted @ Tue, Dec 11, 2007 4:32:43 pm EST from 159.240.11.254

G2198: I probably used the wrong terminology. I guess it seems too Sci-Fi for me. Many times in these stories, the settng and plot overshadows the characters(Though I do have faith in Greg's good story writing abilities).
While I don't mind the show having some science fiction elements to it, too much of it usually turns me off-sounds like too many enhanced robots and aliens for my taste. It's just personal preference really.
Purplegoldfish - [Skydragonn at aol dot com]
posted @ Tue, Dec 11, 2007 4:08:37 pm EST from 69.183.34.195

<<Keep in mind that Thailog is a member as well.>>

Yeah, did you read where I said that I DONT think they want to wipe out the gargoyles?
Vaevictis Asmadi
"We're not the last. We're not alone." - Hudson
posted @ Tue, Dec 11, 2007 3:39:36 pm EST from 71.34.59.240

I agree that the Illuminati's plan is not to destroy the Gargoyles, but attempt to control them or learn their secrets. For example, they appear to be very interested, to say the least, on how three Gargoyles and one human were able to travel to different places very far apart around the world via a boat.
TiniTinyTony <The Gargoyles Pulse>
<The Gargoyles Pulse> - up to date as of 12/10/07
posted @ Tue, Dec 11, 2007 2:03:54 pm EST from 159.240.11.254

I think it's obvious that the Illuminati are not interested in destroying the gargoyles completely, if for no other reason than that would make for boring antagonists. I'm sure their goals are much more complex than that.

"Right now, they want to have control over the Quarrymen so they are a weapon in the Society's hand, instead of a dangerous loose element."

Very good point. With a new species revealed, something like the Quarreymen was inevitable. So it makes much more sense to start it themselves and fund it so well that anyone with those goals would be funneled in. I imagine there were probably other Quarreymenesque groups, but they wouldn't have had the resources to compete and eventually would have been folded into the Quarreymen. And we know they were planning the Quarreymen for some time before the revelation of the gargoyles' existence. They just needed to co-opt a charismatic gargoyle-hater and put the tools in his hands. This way, if the Quarreymen ever get too powerful, the Society can rein them in somehow and prevent them from achieving a total genocide. As we've seen demonstrated again and again, things are more valuable alive than dead. Still, I wonder if the Illuminati's goals for the Q-men are more than that.
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Tue, Dec 11, 2007 1:41:54 pm EST from 153.9.92.155

Therefore, if the Illuminati's plan was the eventual termination of all the Gargoyles from the planet, then Thailog, a member of said group, may not necessarily know about it then, right?
TiniTinyTony <The Gargoyles Pulse>
<The Gargoyles Pulse> - up to date as of 12/10/07
posted @ Tue, Dec 11, 2007 11:03:24 am EST from 159.240.11.254

Tony> I would expect that the Illuminati operates on a need-to-know basis. I doubt there's a weekly Illuminati newsletter to keep members up-to-date.
Phil - [p1anderson at go dot com]
posted @ Tue, Dec 11, 2007 10:53:44 am EST from 69.131.42.43

With 666 possible members at one time, who knows about #2 plans for Xanatos? Everyone above him, 35s and up to #1? His other 36s peers like Castaway, Thailog and Matt? Or just him and #2?
TiniTinyTony <The Gargoyles Pulse>
<The Gargoyles Pulse> - up to date as of 12/10/07
posted @ Tue, Dec 11, 2007 10:19:49 am EST from 159.240.11.254

Vaevictis> Keep in mind that Thailog is a member as well.
Greg Bishansky
"Well, you could make a case that the world has already ended. That art is dead. That we're exhausted. That instead of art, we have… pop culture, daytime TV, gay senior citizens, women that have been raped by their dentists, confiding in Oprah. An exploration in depth of why women cut off their husband's penis."
posted @ Tue, Dec 11, 2007 9:53:32 am EST from 75.56.245.4

JUSTIN >> It is in the Episode Guide on Gargwiki

TODD >> I've realized that the Illuminati must know Xanatos has the clan at the Eyrie, so if they wanted them dead outright they only had to tell Castaway. On the other hand, they did arm the Quarrymen with unnecessarily potent weapons, so I don't think they'd be bothered if the clan was wiped out.

I think they are manipulating the Taskforce, Xanatos, the Quarrymen, and everyone else so they have control of the situation. If they do decide the gargoyles are a threat to their interests, I think they would move swiftly and dispassionately to have them all destroyed. Right now they don't seem to consider them that much of a threat. Right now, they want to have control over the Quarrymen so they are a weapon in the Society's hand, instead of a dangerous loose element.

I think the Illuminati is like a giant puppet show. They find people (like Xanatos and Matt) who have potential to influence events, and take them under their control, so they can manipulate them into doing stuff. I think the 36s and probably several other low ranks are mostly pawns in the Society's hands.
Vaevictis Asmadi
"We're not the last. We're not alone." - Hudson
posted @ Tue, Dec 11, 2007 9:05:58 am EST from 71.34.59.240

A thought that I recently had about the Illuminati and the gargoyles. We'd had discussions here before about whether the Illuminati really want the gargoyles dead or not. After considering the question further, I think it would make better sense in the series if the Illuminati don't want them dead, and their work with Castaway and the Quarrymen is a misdirection tactic.

The Illuminati presumably have a similar overall mindset to Xanatos; calm, amoral, self-controlled, interested in getting the job done. Xanatos could easily have gotten rid of the gargoyles if he wanted to - but he didn't, because he recognized that they would be more useful alive than dead. (It's certainly handy to have them around if you need to undo a spell that's turned everyone in the city, including your wife and your invaluably efficient Excecutive Assistant, to stone at night.) Because of this, the series was able to provide a believable reason for Xanatos not wiping out the gargoyles, one that ensured he was still a force to be reckoned with in spite of Goliath and his clan eluding him. (Note that Xanatos achieved most of his other goals - except for becoming immortal.)

The antagonists who genuinely wanted the gargoyles dead out of hatred, on the other hand (Demona, the Pack, the Archmage, the Hunters, etc.), were usually governed by their passions - so much so that they would let their anger overcome their judgment and make mistakes that would allow the gargoyles to survive (such as the Archmage magically tormenting Goliath rather than simply killing him, because, as he put it, "I'm having too much fun"). So the series had a balancing mechanism to ensure the survival of the protagonists (and, consequently, its continuation): the most rational and level-headed enemy they had had no reason to kill them; the enemies who did want to kill them were far less level-headed, and let it lead to their making fatal mistakes.

Obviously, the Illuminati fall into the same category as Xanatos (they'd never have lasted for over a thousand years if they lost their tempers or indulged in pointless revenge). And they've got a lot of resources. So how can you have the gargoyles survive the Society's attentions? By having the Illuminati not really out to destroy them, but just using the conflict with the gargoyles to advance other goals, goals that wouldn't automatically end the series if attained.

At least, that's my thought on it.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Tue, Dec 11, 2007 8:58:42 am EST from 4.244.213.221

where is the link to the Bad Guys #3 Preview??? I cant find it in the room at all....
Justin - [jlindley07 at gmail dot com]
posted @ Tue, Dec 11, 2007 2:02:04 am EST from 74.135.61.121

City of Stone -- Definitely one of the more depressing stories, thanks to Macbeth and Demona. Man, the music, the awesome lines at just the right beats . . . my eyes still verge close to tears.

Bad Guys #3 preview cover -- Ooh . . . very cool . . . makes me wish we had a better preview cover for #2, since it's clear not all six covers will feature Wanted posters on corkboard. (Also love the little nod to Weisman . . . hope that stays)

Arkansas Mezzo: Though I should be smacking myself with the obviousness of that fact, I'm still smiling knowing that by the end of the week I'll be annoying someone when I blurt that out . . . Hee Hee.

Side note -- today I wrote on the office whiteboard, "If you find any lost screws, please return to (a co-worker of mine). Thank you." Not the most creative line out there, but it DID give the desired effect, and I laughed for a LONG time. >:)
Phoenician - [<---My Kinda Useless Blog]
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Tue, Dec 11, 2007 1:41:28 am EST from 157.242.217.199

Arkansas Mezzo - Where exactly are you getting you comics from in Arkansas? I'm just curious who your supplier is because there is one other person who goes to my supplier.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Tue, Dec 11, 2007 12:17:01 am EST from 98.20.213.94

SPOILERS
I think if Matrix had asked him before hand Dinog would have said No, anyway. I see nanobots inserting themselves into one's body as much like cyborging, and I suspect Dingo feels somewhat the same way. In any case, I am one who finds the idea creepy. I don't want any nanbots in my body. Ew.

Regardless, it was a hilarious line.
SPOILERS
Vaevictis Asmadi
"We're not the last. We're not alone." - Hudson
posted @ Tue, Dec 11, 2007 12:09:21 am EST from 70.57.146.136

Gore> BBC Video> Wow - very cool. I can't even imagine hurtling through the air at a horizontal speed of over 100 m.p.h.... I guess that's what people get motorcycles for. :) And I love the way the Brits say "squirrel" - with 2 syllables, not just "skwerl."

Sorry, getting a bit random, but I was told an interesting piece of trivia the other day by one of my professors: there is no such thing as a British accent. There's an English accent, a Scottish accent, Irish, etc., but since everyone in the whole of Great Britain is British, there is no "British" accent. Yet another smartass way to annoy your friends.
Arkansas Mezzo
"'Tis pity though in this sublime world that / Pleasure's a sin, and sometimes sin's a pleasure." -- Lord Byron, Don Juan, Canto I
posted @ Tue, Dec 11, 2007 12:01:53 am EST from 130.184.85.195

Great video, Gorebash. "My teef, my teef!"
* * *

Well I finally obtained the full episode of W.I.T.C.H. - S02E19 - S is for Self. I asked my musically inclined friend if he could reproduce the song with the little melody I had and all the lyrics. He said it would be very difficult and very time consuming. He said maybe one day if he's feeling ambitious, which means that it will never happened. Sorry guys. I was hoping to provide a rare treat for all of you.

My friend has a pretty decent voice, but he also said he wouldn't feel comfortable having people in a message board listening to his singing. And unfortunately, no amount of compliments could convince him otherwise.

On a side note, the speaking voice of Matt - Jason Marsden, was he also the singing voice as well?
TiniTinyTony <The Gargoyles Pulse>
<The Gargoyles Pulse> - up to date as of 12/10/07
posted @ Mon, Dec 10, 2007 11:09:30 pm EST from 70.15.84.29

Arkansas Mezzo: There was a fun piece done for the BBC2 program "Top Gear" where they raced a man in one of those flying suits against a Porsche SUV. You can see it here on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-wZsfhvJqc
Gorebash
posted @ Mon, Dec 10, 2007 10:43:55 pm EST from 70.22.232.91

Kris: Yep. The leica reel was indeed voiced by those who voiced them in the series including Jim Cummings (Dingo) and James Belushi (Fang).

I couldn't help but keep playing the leica reel in my head while reading Bad Guys #1.
Gorebash
posted @ Mon, Dec 10, 2007 10:39:00 pm EST from 70.22.232.91

Just read the past two weeks of comments. Re: Bad Guys...

Asia mentioned Justice League Unlimited. I just finished that franchise three weeks ago--the whole damn Batman: The Animated Series/Superman: The Animated Series/Batman Beyond/Justice League interconnected multi-series (plus animated movies), it's fairly frickin awesome--and I've never been all that big a fan of DC's characters outside of Batman sometimes. Asia mentioned the android in comparison to Matrix from Gargoyles (the android in Justice League is called Amazo in the comics, but didn't really have a name in the TV series--probably because "Amazo" is cheesy and they already had enough cheesy names floating around--outside of "Dr. Ivo's android" and "Project: Amazo"). They're similar up to the point where Amazo's opening arc ended and he/it flew off into space to evolve further, but it seems like it didn't take Amazo very long to evolve to near-invulnerability and some insane knowledge-holding. Feels like Matrix's arc is gonna be slower. Also, Amazo was a lot more powerful by the end of his introduction and seemed a bit more emotional I suppose, but also had an advantage over Matrix since he could learn faster simply by mimicking with visual observation.

I wonder how Greg will explore symbiosis in this series. Unless "there'll be no more inserting" was simply a quick and believable way to de-power Dingo so that he isn't kicking ass to the point of us not worrying about his safety for the rest of the story. The little puncture mark in his back and the fact that Matrix isn't simply going away, but joining the team as well, has me thinking that they'll explore the issue further. Symbiotic suits are shown quite often in comics, it seems like (and I realize Matrix isn't dependant on a host to stay alive or operate, but it's been presented as Dingo's partner in crime so far in that fashion). Venom from Spider-Man (Eddie Brock embraced it, at first), Spawn (Al Simmons wasn't really aware of it as a separate entity until much later, at least in the R-rated HBO animated series), probably a whole bunch more I'm forgetting and often the hosts are unwilling. Interesting that some posters here commented that Matrix bonding with Dingo's spine weirded them out, while some were unfazed by it. Maybe it was simply that it didn't inform him of what it was doing, and if it had explained beforehand he might've been okay with it. On the other hand, a machine sticking itself inside of you is unsettling no matter what way you slice it...but then again the power/protection trade-off seems more than worth it. Unless Dingo's worried about being overtaken by Matrix and has legitimate cause for concern, he should man up and go with the teaming again by series' end.

Was the Bad Guys reel fully voiced ? If so, was it done by the actors who played them in the series?

Matt mentioned Fang's shorts, I didn't notice those the first time through. Heh, he's pretty much wearing boxer-briefs as a costume.

Although Greg W. doesn't have access to it, I bet the people behind WITCH had Jason Marsden record the full length of "Will to Love". That's usually the case with "prop" songs in shows. Or maybe just wishful thinking...When the CD was released for Buffy The Vampire Slayer's musical episode, "Once More, With Feeling", the proper endings for a couple cut-off songs were released in full, along with all the sound effects and dialogue overlays being cut out, of course.

re: Claw possibly speaking finally to have a line in his dying moments---Aw man, I'd never thought about Claw dying. I don't wanna see that. Possibly my favorite peripheral character in the series. I mean I love the tragedy in my drama (and comedies too, sure), but they could kill a whole bunch more characters I care about before they do him in.
Kris - [plekopleko at hotmail dot com]
Did anyone else buy/rent the direct-to-DVD Futurama movie, "Bender's Big Score" ? Anyone else here a big Futurama fan ?
posted @ Mon, Dec 10, 2007 10:32:26 pm EST from 24.137.192.172

Bad Guys was one of the spinoffs I was looking forward to, and the other's I'm looking forward to:

- Gargoyles 2198
- Timedancer
- Dark Ages

With the last two, sure we know where the characters end up, but it's how they get there which is the interest. Regardless, I'll pick up any spinoff and enjoy it.

I was thinking though if Greg got to do a spinoff on a regular basis, if he would simply do a Gargoyles Anthology series (Tales Of The Gargoyles Universe) so he wouldn't have to choose which spinoff to do. You know with every 3 to 6 issues focus on a different series.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Mon, Dec 10, 2007 10:26:31 pm EST from 71.115.192.199

Speaking of "Metamorphosis", has Greg ever addressed why the "pinkie swear" story point was kind of dropped between the story memo and the final episode? It's always kind of bugged me how Elisa ends up recognizing her brother in the final script and the idea that she would know him because of a old sibling in-joke just makes a lot more sense. Instead, Derek ends up saying the most commonly accepted answer to Elisa's "Cross my heart" and somehow, this triggers her recognition that "Talon" is her brother. I guess it's possible that she sort of recognized his voice and hearing Talon say something she was used to Derek saying made it click for her. But I still can't help but think the scene would have been much more effective if they had established that Derek always answers something like "and hope to pie" or something equally silly and, in that one moment, even though he consciously wants to keep his identity a secret, he just automatically responds to his sister exactly like he always does. The choice to make Derek's response more standard than specific has always made this moment feel like more of a "huh?" than a major emotional point for me.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:26:15 pm EST from 209.6.248.33

I'm sure Xanatos keeps an eye on newly emerging rival corporations. So when Nightstone Unlimited pops up under the leadership of Alexander Thailog (who has never been seen). I'm sure that was more or less proof Thailog was still around.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'
posted @ Mon, Dec 10, 2007 7:46:16 pm EST from 24.207.163.239

The ending of "Metamorphosis" was one of my favorite moments in "Gargoyles", as well.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Mon, Dec 10, 2007 7:44:29 pm EST from 4.244.214.66

Can't wait to see Greg's reaction to this one:
Andres writes...
Does melissa garcia like me.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Mon, Dec 10, 2007 7:39:12 pm EST from 71.115.192.199

Sebastian> I'm pretty sure Greg W. confirmed at some point that Brooklyn's very hesitant response to Goliath's comment that Demona had been with Thailog when last he saw her was Puck making something up on the fly in reaction to the news that Demona and Thailog were a couple, which he didn't know. I'm with Greg B.; I'm pretty sure Puck knew or at least had a good idea that Thailog was still around through Owen's discussions with Xanatos.

Phil> Thanks for pointing out the not final cover for issue #3 of "Bad Guys" on GargWiki. I'm very pleased to see that it's not just a rehash of the first cover, though it still keeps to the same theme. This gives me hope that the Yama cover may be a little more unique than the placeholder one that's on the site now. Certainly an interesting image, especially that piece of paper overlapping the binder with the words "This One" handwritten on it and "Eisman" (with a hand covering what's likely a "W") typed in the upper left corner.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Mon, Dec 10, 2007 7:23:52 pm EST from 209.6.248.33

Tony: Yeah, I think that was it.

And as far as depressing stories are concerned, it was a depressing episode of "Gargoyles" that got me hooked on the series in the first place. The ending to "Metamorphosis." The first time I saw it, I sat there with my mouth open thinking "that's it?" That was pretty much all it took. The second time I saw it, it was even better.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"I'm the doctor who's trying to save your son's life. And you're the mom who's letting him die. Clarification: it's a beautiful thing." -House, MD.
posted @ Mon, Dec 10, 2007 7:22:35 pm EST from 71.62.198.251

City of Stone is depressing. I personally don't dislike depressing stories.
Vaevictis Asmadi
"We're not the last. We're not alone." - Hudson
posted @ Mon, Dec 10, 2007 6:09:54 pm EST from 70.57.146.136

And "City of Stone" is not depressing? Gotta have high stakes and risks and even darkness for good drama.
Greg Bishansky
"Well, you could make a case that the world has already ended. That art is dead. That we're exhausted. That instead of art, we have… pop culture, daytime TV, gay senior citizens, women that have been raped by their dentists, confiding in Oprah. An exploration in depth of why women cut off their husband's penis."
posted @ Mon, Dec 10, 2007 5:58:06 pm EST from 75.56.245.4

<<This causes me to wonder if maybe Sevarius is going to mix different varieties of clones using the Clan's DNA, similiar to how he used DNA from Demona and Elisa to create Delilah. I'm not really sure what the advantage of creating mixed up clones is, but it would certainly be different. Also, I wonder how Thailog intends to control the new batch since even "Obey Thailog" didn't work out too well.>>
How about gargoyles with the brains and intelligence of beasts? You don't expect a dog to get notions of Free Will.

Prophecy/Fate >> I still think it is possible that Puck has some precognition. Hey, it could happen. But I agree with others who think the "Clone Wars" thing was spur of the moment.

2198 >> It isn't post-apocalyptic, but it is still about immensely powerful aliens who seem too advanced to beat and if we do beat them, they'll just blow up the planet. That seems depressing to me.
Vaevictis Asmadi
"We're not the last. We're not alone." - Hudson
posted @ Mon, Dec 10, 2007 5:55:01 pm EST from 70.57.146.136

Hey, I was just surfing throught the comic entries in GargWiki and noticed that there's a prototype cover for Bad Guys #3. It's a variation on the same theme, but I think it looks cool.
Phil - [p1anderson at go dot com]
posted @ Mon, Dec 10, 2007 4:53:12 pm EST from 69.131.42.43

Hello to all, after a VERY long hiatus. Just turned in three papers ... only one final left, and the semester will finally be over.

But the real point of posting is that I saw a very interesting article on the front page of the NY Times today, called "Flying Humans, Hoping to Land With No Chute." The article is about a guy named Jeb Corliss (and some other independent groups) who are working on wing suits and other cool stuff to try to make it possible for humans to glide safely to earth from an airplane without a parachute. I found it interesting, especially because of the Gargoyles connection.

So if any of you are interested, here's a link:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/10/sports/othersports/10flying.html?_r=1&ref=todayspaper&oref=slogin

Can't wait to get my hands on the comics tomorrow! I'm interested in seeing what Greg does with "Bad Guys." Like PGoldfish, I'm kind of wary of spinoffs, too....
Arkansas Mezzo
"'Tis pity though in this sublime world that / Pleasure's a sin, and sometimes sin's a pleasure." -- Lord Byron, Don Juan, Canto I
posted @ Mon, Dec 10, 2007 4:33:15 pm EST from 130.184.85.195

Maybe Puck didn't know that Demona had chosen Thailog. And Brooklyn/Puck made up something on the fly that would appease Goliath's question.
TiniTinyTony <The Gargoyles Pulse>
<The Gargoyles Pulse> - up to date as of 12/10/07
posted @ Mon, Dec 10, 2007 4:10:40 pm EST from 159.240.11.254

Of course Puck knew that Thailog was still alive. He was there when Xanatos figured it out in "Double Jeopardy". He just didn't know that Thailog and Demona were a couple at that point.

Purplegoldfish> Re-read the Gargoyles: 2198 pitch. It is definitely not post-apocalyptic. Also, I don't see where you get "depressing" from.
Greg Bishansky
"Well, you could make a case that the world has already ended. That art is dead. That we're exhausted. That instead of art, we have… pop culture, daytime TV, gay senior citizens, women that have been raped by their dentists, confiding in Oprah. An exploration in depth of why women cut off their husband's penis."
posted @ Mon, Dec 10, 2007 3:12:41 pm EST from 75.56.245.4

Sebastian-I was always under the impression that Puck as Brooklyn made that up spur of the moment. He was was caught off guard when goliath told him that demona and thailog were an item. but it's possible that puck knew that thailog was still alive.

though I sincerely hope that "clone wars" stay out of the gargoyles universe
Purplegoldfish - [Skydragonn at aol dot com]
posted @ Mon, Dec 10, 2007 2:50:46 pm EST from 69.183.34.195

I was recently watching future tense and the whole "thailog died during the clone wars" seemed very odd to me. People have probably asked Greg about this, but I couldn't find it after a minute, so sorry if he has.

Does Puck know that Thailog is still alive at that point? Goliath states: I thought Demona had chosen Thailog or something like that. Then brooklyn pauses and says umm, and it seems to me that he makes up the answer out of thin air, not having had considered Thailog being alive in Goliath's mind. It was because of this interaction that I never gave much weight to Puck calling it a prophecy.

What do you guys make of that interaction?

back to finals studying!
Sebastian
posted @ Mon, Dec 10, 2007 2:41:26 pm EST from 128.12.69.35

Phil- lol, tied for first with only four points...None of us here would make very good psychics. Anyone know which week that survey was put out?

since I missed it last week, Spinoffs:

1. Dark Ages-the only one I'm really interested in. It would be cool to see more of the old clan and to see the characters as younger and more inexperienced

2. Timedancer kind of ties with 2198. Brooklyn's actually my least favorite gargoyle of the manhattan clan, but it would be cool to see his family and to get a look at Katana's personality. I'm a little wary of bringing a child gargoyle into the main stories as many times child characters are precocious. I do want to see the story with brooklyn meeting mary and finella and the story of how Xanatos got the grimorum

2198-Again, it would be interesting to see the descendants of the clan and a more repentant demona. Though I feel it might be somewhat depressing too and I'm not one for post-aptolyptic stories.

Pendragon-While I do like King Arthur's cameo appearances he makes in the show, I'm not all that interested in his adventures.

New Olympians- Meh, not interested really at all. I didn't particularly care for the characters in the episode, and the premise seems to me to be similar to gargoyles but with flatter characters.

Don't mind me though-I've never really liked the spinoffs of anything I've ever seen-so maybe gargoyles spinoffs will change my mind
Purplegoldfish - [Skydragonn at aol dot com]
posted @ Mon, Dec 10, 2007 2:34:14 pm EST from 69.183.34.195

Sorry to interrupt your discussion, but GARGOYLES #7 is confirmed to be released 12/12/07.

Nothing new for Gargoyles on the 19th at the moment, so we will either get the TPB on the 27th (pushed back because of Christmas) or the first week of January as Greg W. has said.
TiniTinyTony <The Gargoyles Pulse>
The Gargoyles Pulse - updated every Monday
posted @ Mon, Dec 10, 2007 1:48:55 pm EST from 159.240.11.254

Yeah, I had the same thought after "Bash" that if Thailog just went and made more clones it would be repetitive. I think something different is definitly going on. A big part of that is that it seems to me that Thailog needed/wanted more DNA than a robotic mosquito could provide. Whatever he has Sevarius working on, it requires lots of DNA, including Elisa's and Bronx's.

It brings me to another thought. When Greg W left the series and TGC started, they took a lot of Greg's ideas and modified them apparently. Unless Greg tells us, we know what very few of those ideas were. But looking at "Genesis Undone" I wonder if we are seeing a modified storyline of Greg's. In it we see Sevarius and Thailog working together to acquire DNA from the entire clan. Sound familiar? A lot is apparently needed for the plan. And what is done with the DNA? It is used to create a conglomerate clone.

This causes me to wonder if maybe Sevarius is going to mix different varieties of clones using the Clan's DNA, similiar to how he used DNA from Demona and Elisa to create Delilah. I'm not really sure what the advantage of creating mixed up clones is, but it would certainly be different. Also, I wonder how Thailog intends to control the new batch since even "Obey Thailog" didn't work out too well.
Maybe the "Reckoning"-batch were simply prototypes...

As for Brentwood, I find the idea of him eventually overthrowing Thailog to be awesome. I can see it now, Thailog dies in the Clone Wars, but Brentwood keeps his memory alive so he can do his thing without being bothered. Brentwood commands legions of Thailog-shocktroops.

Hell, maybe the whole Clone Wars idea has to do with the crisis that brings together representatives from four clans in summer, 2001...

So many interesting possibilities.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'
posted @ Mon, Dec 10, 2007 1:20:09 pm EST from 24.207.163.239

Interesting thoughts about "Future Tense" and the Clone Wars. I agree that Thailog could be working on a clone army, but it seems redundant since he's already made clones of most of the Manhattan Clan. If that is Thailog's plan, I hope (and expect) that there will be some new twist to make it different. I don't know enough about theoretical genetics to know what other possible uses there might be for genetic material. If Sevarius is planning something completely different, the Clone Wars "prophecy" could be considered fulfilled in the events of "The Reckoning" and "Bash."

That led me to another train of thought about the fulfillments of Puck's "prophecies." They can generally be put into two categories: a) things that Puck knew of or could predict intentionally, and b) things that Puck just made up and Fate (aka Greg W) is now fulfilling. As far as we know, Thailog was the only clone Puck was aware of at the time of "Future Tense" which puts a lot of the recent fulfillments into category B.

Do you think it's possible that Puck was aware of what Sevarius was working on over at Nightstone? If so, could he have predicted or extrapolated what is going on now? Would Brooklyn's genes predispose Malibu toward a desire for a mate? Would Lex's genes predispose Brentwood to have an appreciation for intelligence? Or was Puck just guessing and now Fate/Greg are making the prophecies come true?
Phil - [p1anderson at go dot com]
posted @ Mon, Dec 10, 2007 12:30:00 pm EST from 69.131.42.43

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