So Greg Weisman has an event on the calendar the day after my birthday as well as the day before my mom's birthday and the day before my brother's birthday. That's a relief to get through January without deeply thinking about certain things.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Sun, Feb 3, 2008 9:59:08 pm EST from 98.20.146.216

Diamond's count of books they've shipped to comic book stores probably won't include Amazon.com, but I see no reason why they wouldn't "count" to SLG. They're certainly not sending the books to Amazon for free.

145 days left until The Gathering 2008 in Chicago, Illinois!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Sun, Feb 3, 2008 7:30:43 pm EST from 76.241.146.141

Todd> I would think so. No matter where you end up buying them from, so long as it's not an individual who purchased it and is now selling it to you like on eBay or something, SLG should be counting it. Same goes for the comics. They might not show up in some counts, but SLG should still be getting money from the sales.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Sun, Feb 3, 2008 6:34:37 pm EST from 209.6.248.33

Does SLG count purchases from Amazon.com as sales? If not, I'm not so certain that buying the trade paperback from Amazon.com as opposed to a bookstore or comic store is a good idea.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Sun, Feb 3, 2008 6:21:09 pm EST from 4.245.21.89

dph >> Standard shipping would be about $3.99. The TPB is eligible for Super Saver Shipping (which is free), but the order total has to be at least $25. Also, whatever other items you include in the order has to be eligible for Super Saver Shipping as well.

Hope that helps...
The One Known As Mochi - [shogi dot keima dot 08 at gmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>T3T)> Tired...
posted @ Sun, Feb 3, 2008 5:51:05 pm EST from 72.199.225.9

One question, Anthony, what's the shipping cost? If shipping is $5 or more, you still might as well buy it in person.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Sun, Feb 3, 2008 4:54:34 pm EST from 98.20.146.216

Anyone who hasn't purchased the TPB yet, the price on Amazon has been lowered to $13.57. Let's hope the decrease in price sells more copies! StW! (Spread the Word)!
(The Gargoyles Pulse - updated 01/28/08)
Anthony Tini
posted @ Sun, Feb 3, 2008 2:40:18 pm EST from 70.15.84.29

I know one of my orders from SLG either was never sent out or got lost in the mail. I contacted them and they sent me new ones free of charge, bit its was a bit disheartening. Because other people might not be so loyal to want to order them again.
Siren
Don't knock on Death's door. Ring his doorbell and run, he hates that.
posted @ Sun, Feb 3, 2008 12:39:10 pm EST from 68.202.76.113

There's a lot of information about the series 'Gargoyles' at http://www.gargoylescomic.com/ -- take a look at the comic synopses on the front page and the introduction to the universe page. I hope it inspires you. And please mention to your class and your teacher about the comic and DVDs. The latest issue, #7, in particular shows a real range of different gargoyle designs, some designs based on animals.
Ed Reynolds
"They go from building to building, just building." -- Karl Pilkington
posted @ Sun, Feb 3, 2008 8:31:34 am EST from 213.187.39.61

Valerie> Though it's not specifically stated (so far as I know), the implication would seem to be that prior to the Spell of Humility being cast, gargoyles generally did not wear clothing, as it seems like it would be way too much of a hassle to have to obtain a brand new outfit every night when the old one was destroyed upon awakening. I would guess that, as with naming, gargoyles eventually got used to wearing clothes and that most modern gargoyles do not find them an imposition or harbor any secret desires to glide around in the nude at all times.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Sun, Feb 3, 2008 8:30:54 am EST from 209.6.248.33

hi i am stuck i got art homework on gargoyles and this week i got 2 use an animal and make it in to a gargoyle which i done then u had 2 make a name which i did its called Tinato Puck. which i know its random now this is the bit im stuck i have 2 make up a story but i am no good at that plz some1 help mexx
Anonymous - [cool123 at fsmail dot net]
c.
posted @ Sun, Feb 3, 2008 7:48:44 am EST from 62.136.50.186

Meg> Yeah, Conan the Adventurer the cartoon. I had to order the DVDs from an ebay seller in Australia. It's like 16 DVDs with 4 episodes each. Luckily I got most of them from the same seller so the shipping wasn't too bad.
Ozzie Arcane - [ozziearcane at yahoo dot com]
"Hello Booby! This is a trap!" - Eggplant Wizard
posted @ Sun, Feb 3, 2008 5:02:07 am EST from 69.14.122.91

Meg> I find this hilarious, as I generally find Augustus to be always, and can't help but remind the world how "indecent" his own daughter was. Some things never change. omglol.
Valerie - [vaddoniz at gmail dot com]
I need... a 'de-tect-ive.'
posted @ Sun, Feb 3, 2008 4:29:17 am EST from 24.187.32.2

Ozzie>They have Conan the Adventurer on DVD?? The old cartoon series?? That's so rad!

Valerie>It's pretty much canon, yeah. http://gargoyles.dracandros.com/Spell_of_humility IIRC, the Romans were supposed to have been scandalized by newly nude gargoyles every dusk (Augustus was big on morality), hence the spell.
Meg
posted @ Sun, Feb 3, 2008 2:32:08 am EST from 138.16.28.211

Totally off topic, I have a canon vs. fanon question:

I'm waiting for Season 2 Volume 1 to come so I watch the rest of the show both on the DVDs and then online so I can THEN pick up the recently purchased comic books and get the full effect, so I need to ask this because it's been too long. I seem to remember it being a general assumption that gargoyles only wore clothing so as not to offend the human sense of modesty and decency... is that fanon or canon? Was it ever actually stated in an episode (or for that matter is it even fanon or just my imagination?)?
Valerie - [vaddoniz at gmail dot com]
I need... a 'de-tect-ive.'
posted @ Sun, Feb 3, 2008 1:47:56 am EST from 24.187.32.2

You can also get Region Free DVD players on ebay if you want to play imported DVDs. Living here in the US that's what I had to do to be able to watch Conan The Adventurer on DVD.
Ozzie Arcane - [ozziearcane at yahoo dot com]
"Hello Booby! This is a trap!" - Eggplant Wizard
posted @ Sat, Feb 2, 2008 8:24:05 pm EST from 69.14.122.91

Blue Demon: Welcome to the Comment Room! I'm in the UK and I ordered the DVDs on Amazon.com. You can still play them on computers and region-unlocked DVD players (you can check on the internet whether your player can be unlocked). I really recommend this if you haven't got it already because the DVDs are lovely!

Site updates: added direct links for Midtown Comic on the front page, and I've uploaded Rebel's sig image. Does anyone have more sigs, AIM icons, recommendations for mail order sites (Vicky, weren't you using one?)

One other thought. Isn't Spectacular Spider-Man launching next month? While Greg's in the spotlight, we'll have a real shot at getting the word out. Does anyone have wiki/imdb accounts to make sure those are in good order? Are there links to other fandoms (common writers, voice actors etc.) which may make it easier to bring Greg's work to people's attention?
Ed Reynolds
"You never see a black ghost, do you?" -- Karl Pilkington
posted @ Sat, Feb 2, 2008 8:00:58 pm EST from 213.187.39.61

*waves* Hi everyone! ^_^ Happy February... In case you haven't yet, we had some really gorgeous entries for our last contest, and you can go vote on them and maybe get inspired by the new topic and do some fanart of your own! ^_^
kess - [< MGC]
posted @ Sat, Feb 2, 2008 7:34:47 pm EST from 66.227.169.218

Blue Demon> Welcome to the Comment Room. Just wanted to correct you and say that Coldstone is not flesh, hes not even partially flesh, he is "cold stone brought to life".
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Sat, Feb 2, 2008 6:52:20 pm EST from 70.130.247.124

Hey all. Figured I should plonk myself up here. Its so weird to have a Gargoyle comic out after so many years... Living in the UK we don't even get DVD's of session 1, nor the half of session 2!
ColdTrio - Part of me would like for them to become flesh, or even partial flesh like, as Coldstone is. Ofcourse, they are almost destined to live in the world pretty much forever; unless they are badly damaged. In the end, their spirits are alive in each robotic body, but that is it, they are robots with souls. Hardly a life, perhaps that is another reason why, in Possesion, that Coldfire and Coldstone turned down Goliath's offer to join the clan again. If they focus enough on tracking Coldsteel they won't need to focus on what they have become.

Brentwood - I think, at the moment he is still too... Young I guess, to have developed any other emotions to Thaliog, while he maybe the same age as Lexington physically, mentally he is probably a bit slow, like the rest of the clones.

As for the comics being delayed, it's a shame, and a pest to the one's who are waiting for the next volume to come out; but it's going to hurt the sales even more, because some people aren't going to be avid Gargoyles fans, they aren't going to wait for so many months for the next volume to come out, they are going to forget about it and move on to something else that is more... Realible. Which I know sounds bad, but when you look at a lot of the comics that are coming out from the bigger companies like Marvel, DC comics and Dark Horse they are all usually a month after the other from each comic issue. Not that I'm saying that the company Grey has choosen to sign with are bad, but their probably is a reason why Gargoyles is once more having a doubtful future. I agree with what someone had said earlier, doing a more manga type book could be the way forward, you each so many chapters for £6.99 (roughly, and yes in pounds). It's cheaper, in the end that way than paying for a comic, that way people don't mind waiting for roughly 5/6 months for the next issue to come out. (Though I think its just 3 months. But isn't that how often the Gargoyles comic comes out?)
Blue Demon - [bluedemon62athotmaildotcom]
posted @ Sat, Feb 2, 2008 4:56:21 pm EST from 86.10.103.113

Wish I still had a comic book specialty store close by in my part of the U.S. Online resources are the only way to buy for me stuck on this peninsula.
Vinnie - [tpeano29 at hotmail dot com]
It's silly. It's a silly movie. There just isn't much there. Once you take it all apart, there's not much story, is there?- George Lucas on Spider-Man 3
posted @ Sat, Feb 2, 2008 2:59:43 pm EST from 69.54.209.43

Matt> I agree.

I've let my co-worker Tina borrow Gargoyles Season 1 DVD. I'll know on Monday if she and her kids enjoyed it.

I've also opened up communication with Gary of Garyinthemorning.com and maybe he'll let me talk about Gargoyles on air eventually, at least that's my plan. Maybe it would be better if Greg Weisman was on the Internet radio show instead, but I don't have the means to set that up.

Off to check other message boards I post at, hopefully I got some bites!
(The Gargoyles Pulse - updated 01/28/08)
Anthony Tini
posted @ Sat, Feb 2, 2008 2:32:19 pm EST from 70.15.84.29

The exact sales numbers are irrelevent. Whatever the numbers are, whoever is to be blamed or praised for where those numbers are is also irrelevent. Our only concern and our only job right now should be to SPREAD THE WORD and get more people to purchase more. More comics, more DVDs, more Gathering admissions, etc. We really need to stop focusing on Disney and SLG, Greg Weisman and the artists, the numbers and and fees. Our only focus should be pushing everything. We've all got to do our part, and the fandom's part is to advertise and encourage the fandom to grow and flourish.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Sat, Feb 2, 2008 1:27:43 pm EST from 70.130.247.124

chris>"With fans around the globe, the only real market place is the internet...
I think sales are actually better than one might think"

The problem, though, is that we have been told by Greg Weisman that sales of the book are insufficient. It doesn't matter if online sales boost the book by 30% or even 50% of the numbers we see...I'm sure SLG takes those figures into account, and bottom line, sales are still not good. :\

And, actually, some people might be turned off by having to order online-I've heard of a few bad experiences when orders from Amazon/SLG/etc. took a really long time to arrive. People who aren't as invested in the series as others are less likely to order it again if it was a big pain to get it in the first place. And, I know of at least a few cases of people buying the comic used off ebay, which obviously hurts sales of the book...it's why I really try to steer people to midtowncomics.com when I can. It might not be quite as cheap as Amazon/SLG can be, but at least it's new copies being sold from an actual comics store that ship quickly, which cuts down on the frustration factor.
Meg
posted @ Sat, Feb 2, 2008 10:48:37 am EST from 138.16.28.211

Bowen Statue> I checked it out in Previews when I went by my comic shop yesterday. It is a little bit close for comfort. I agree that the Disney series was mot the first to depict gargoyles as bat-winged humanoids, but the long hair, the loincloth-esque outfit, and the clothing seem overly familiar. (The large ad photo makes it look like the statue is mostly gray, but the picture with the solicitation looks more purple, so I'd have to see the thing in person to judge.) But I don't think Disney is concerned enough to go after a single specialty shop product that probably isn't going to sell to all that many people that resembles a property they aren't really doing much with these days.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Sat, Feb 2, 2008 9:17:58 am EST from 209.6.248.33

Ed Rynolds: "£50 of 'free' Google adwords; £50 MSN Adcenter vouchers. I'm pretty cautious about both of these because I presume there's some kind of catch, so I'm not sure if I'll make use of them ultimately. But we'll see."

Even if there is no catch, I wouldn't bother. Many people nowadays ignore (in the sense of becoming blind to it) or outright filter online advertisment.
Anonymous
posted @ Sat, Feb 2, 2008 4:29:45 am EST from 87.123.104.205

Phoenician >> LOL... I almost had the same thought when Greg W. said he'll be at Comic-Con here in San Diego. :D
The One Known As Mochi - [shogi dot keima dot 08 at gmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>T3T)> Tired...
posted @ Sat, Feb 2, 2008 1:26:45 am EST from 72.199.225.9

I also noticed that the hands have five digits and there are pretty prominent, white colored horns. Something to keep in mind is a number of films and series have taken the same basic design and have applied it to gargoyles, demons, and any number of generic monsters. It's possible he was just pulling on those same design features, and like Siren said, came up with the something paralleling Goliath. It happens.
Asatira
posted @ Fri, Feb 1, 2008 11:48:47 pm EST from 75.143.111.66

(Reads Greg's response to Mochi) . . . .

CopperCon?? In Arizona?! BOOYAH!!!!!! I am so going to be there, Greg! Nothing will stop me!!

(notices the entire CR staring. Quickly hides behind cookie table)
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Fri, Feb 1, 2008 10:48:12 pm EST from 157.242.218.248

Speaking of odd coincidences, does anyone know if Greg W. ever came across the old Marvel comic "The Gargoyle"? The designs in that are sorta similar to the Gargoyle designs in Gargoyles.
Rebel
posted @ Fri, Feb 1, 2008 9:20:23 pm EST from 24.227.200.138

In all truth...Greg Weisman stated he never heard of the B-movie Gargoyles. Story-wise they aren't close. But it amazed me that in his likely research of gargoyles, he never heard or saw the movie. He may have purposefully avoided it, like he now avoids fan fiction. So it IS possible the guy never saw the show.

The sculpture is more gray than purple. Bat wings come standard on gargoyles. Its a strong male, so it has a large chest and muscular arms. Black hair always goes good with a dark creature. And the face may be the only coincidence. So who knows? All I know is, its cool and I want one :D
Siren
Don't knock on Death's door. Ring his doorbell and run, he hates that.
posted @ Fri, Feb 1, 2008 9:17:03 pm EST from 68.202.76.113

YTMND: I do want to make the gargoyles ytmnd funny, but I don't want to rip off the star trek site. It's definitely a great site, but I want to do something original (though someone else can do that if they want to--I can probably even spare a little to help sponsor it).

Anybody have any funny ideas for a gargoyle ytmnd? Basically it would be, something funny, and then afterwards, information about the comics.

If we can't come up with anything, then I'll just go with something that's not funny...after all, if it's sponsored, it will be on the front page in plain sight for a week anyway, and will get thousands and thousands of views. And, in all honesty, unless whatever we come up with was downright HILARIOUS (like, hilarious enough to end up in top rated), it probably wouldn't get many views after the sponsorship period is over anyway.
Rebel
posted @ Fri, Feb 1, 2008 7:27:42 pm EST from 24.227.200.138

sculpture> Actually, it is possible that he's never seen the show. There are other places where living gargoyles are mentioned, and he may be basing it off a particular myth or legend. Sometimes people do come up with similar things independently.

Now, I'm not saying that this guy did or did not base his sculpture on Goliath; I'm just putting out another possibility.
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth_dragon at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Fri, Feb 1, 2008 6:57:08 pm EST from 24.98.74.35

Rebel (from yesterday): Cheers for the new sig image. I'll put it up when I next update.

Rosalyn: Welcome to the comment room! Are you reading the comics yet? :) If we can keep the comic afloat and new stories being told then hopefully, sooner or later, it will make sense for Disney to finish releasing the DVDs.

Algernon: I was aware of TNG from quite a young age but it never grabbed me. To this day, I can't get into it at all. I enjoyed DS9, much of TOS and I got into Enterprise towards the end. Voice cast wise, I get much more excited by Xander Berkeley, CCH Pounder, Clancy Brown, Ed Asner and others whose work was unknown to me a decade ago but I got to discover since.

Gargoyles Pulse: Good luck with your friend's kids. Keep us updated. :)


***SPREAD THE WORD CAMPAIGN STUFF***

COMIC CONS: Mochi, it's awesome that you got into the comic through San Diego. That gives me a lot more hope for pushing Gargoyles at Bristol. I was thinking of getting a T-shirt advertising the comic. Certainly fliers.

FLIERS: It would be really handy to have some decently designed fliers for the con. Might even be able to ask comic shops to have them. I'm not that good at the design stuff though. I can give it a go if nobody with a more artistic bent steps forward. It would be great to host this stuff on gargoylescomic.com so people can just print out a bunch according to need.

YTMND: I've heard of this site but browsing through it I'm still not really any the wiser as to what its point is. But it sounds like a terrific plan, and I've signed up. I think it's a particularly great idea to target crossover fandoms. For sure, Trek. But also Buffy and Harry Potter seem like ones that would get wide readership and have fans whose interest might fit Gargoyles. Something funny, eh? Hmm. That's tough.

GARGOYLES FANS REGISTRY: I've started sending out e-mails -- only a handful so far. As yet, an equal number bounced straight away as appeared to go through, and a couple of people don't have obvious places to contact. I'm particularly interested in finding Agamemnon who ran gargoyles.ch and apparently hung around the S8 chatroom a great deal in the 90s. If anyone else wants to volunteer to help out, do a handful of e-mails a week or something, we might be able to get more sent out faster. Contact me at fans@ the domain address below.

OTHER STUFF: With the gargoylescomic.com site I've been shown various offers. £50 of 'free' Google adwords; £50 MSN Adcenter vouchers. I'm pretty cautious about both of these because I presume there's some kind of catch, so I'm not sure if I'll make use of them ultimately. But we'll see.
Ed Reynolds
"Why is everyone always going back to Latin? It was ages ago." -- Karl Pilkington
posted @ Fri, Feb 1, 2008 6:33:25 pm EST from 213.187.39.61

I think it's a great sculpture, and I don't have any problem with Bowen making money off it, but I have to admit the copy rubbed me the wrong way:

"From the depths of the famed sculptors imagination, comes an original design: Randy Bowen's: Gargoyle! ... This is sculpture design #1 in a series of original designs based on classic icons of fantasy myth, and mayhem..."

I guess it wouldn't bother me that Gargoyles/Goliath/Disney/Weisman/et al weren't mentioned. Why invite legal trouble? But to actively state this came from the "depths of his imagination" when it is so CLEARLY modeled after Goliath... that goes beyond trying to keep out of trouble w/Disney lawyers and moves into plaigarism territory for me...

Am I the only one who feels this way? Does anyone think that this design's similarities to Goliath are a complete coincidence? I suppose it's possible that Bowen saw Gargoyles a long time ago and has forgotten about it, i.e. is unaware that he was inspired by Goliath. I guess that's the interpretation I'll go with, as it's the most benefit of the doubty.
L.T. Williams
posted @ Fri, Feb 1, 2008 6:31:36 pm EST from 71.93.81.240

Jack> Man that really does look like Golaith, like "Disney's lawyers are gonna drag the poor bugger off into the night, never to be seen again" looks like Golaith.
Algernon
Treat people in your debt like family... exploit them. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition No. 111
posted @ Fri, Feb 1, 2008 6:12:52 pm EST from 86.41.203.86

Finally got my student loan refund- ordering trade paper back immediately- screw food!

Is there *any* way to know what the sales numbers are online? So much of the community resides in cyberspace, that I can imagine many fans simply buy online because it's easier than hunting the products down in the stores. That's the only way I found the DVDs, and the general lack of comic book stores in my town puts a damper on those capabilities as well...

With fans around the globe, the only real market place is the internet...

I think sales are actually better than one might think
chris
why do we build castles in the sky?
posted @ Fri, Feb 1, 2008 5:04:07 pm EST from 66.211.201.24

Star Trek fan right here, though not as eager as I used to be. I grasped the connections between voice casts fairly quickly back then (though it took me years to connect Nichelle 'Uhura' Nichols to Diane Maza), and it only helped to increase the overall coolness that was Gargoyles for me.

Though why a Trek fan wouldn't like this, I have no idea. Then again, Trekkies do tend to be something of an elitist bunch.
Echowarrior - [WARendfeld at aol dot com]
posted @ Fri, Feb 1, 2008 4:49:14 pm EST from 161.32.228.101

jack> That's sooo Goliath!

I wonder why he's so mad *this* time...:)
chris
why do we build castles in the sky?
posted @ Fri, Feb 1, 2008 4:39:08 pm EST from 66.211.201.24

Jack-P> Nifty!
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth_dragon at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Fri, Feb 1, 2008 4:20:25 pm EST from 199.38.51.134

Jack> It's like the "Even my revenge!" scream from Awakening :)
Valerie - [vaddoniz at gmail dot com]
I need a... 'de-tect-ive'
posted @ Fri, Feb 1, 2008 4:19:42 pm EST from 165.230.141.122

Hey guys, I found Bowen's page for his Gargoyle statue

http://www.bowendesigns.com/sculptures.asp?id=407&type=

Again, I honestly see a huge influence from Goliath in this.
Jack-Pumpkinhead - [jtjgundam at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Fri, Feb 1, 2008 4:06:02 pm EST from 68.119.249.199

I was a Trek fan at the time that I began to watch Gargoyles (I was 11) but it wasn't until I heard the dialog between Coldstone, Demon, and Xanatos in Reawakening that I really picked up on the connection. From then on it was just another notch in the awesome column. Interestingly enough, most of the conversations I've tried to start lately about Gargoyles have gone immediately to the ST connection, so there is definitely room for expansion there.
Valerie - [vaddoniz at gmail dot com]
I need a... 'de-tect-ive'
posted @ Fri, Feb 1, 2008 3:13:01 pm EST from 165.230.141.122

@Rebel- Fluorescent colors? Weird, I haven't run across that problem before. I'll try and host it on a different site later this evening; perhaps that will fix the problem. It's also possible that you're missing some sort of codec necessary for playing the video (do you have DivX? it's free, and useful...but the video is not saved as an .avi, so I'm not sure why you'd have problems). As for fonts, I just used this one:

http://www.dafont.com/gargoyles-normal.font

I don't know- it looked fine and had no weird strings attached to downloading.
Spoonvonstup - [<-- Gargoyles Music Video Database]
posted @ Fri, Feb 1, 2008 2:28:35 pm EST from 72.22.178.36

I also watched TNG with my family from time to time, but had no idea who was who except for maybe Xanatos and Demona.
(The Gargoyles Pulse - updated 01/28/08)
Anthony Tini
posted @ Fri, Feb 1, 2008 2:19:12 pm EST from 159.240.11.254

Algernon> I used to watch TNG with my father, but to me Gargoyles was a completely separate thing. I only learned later how many of the same actors were VAs for the Gargoyles cast.
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth_dragon at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Fri, Feb 1, 2008 1:48:33 pm EST from 199.38.51.134

sorry for the double>

By the way, whenever I downloaded that video onto my computer and try to play it, for some reason the whole video is in weird fluorescent colors. Anybody know what might be wrong? When I watch the video on youtube, it works fine.
Rebel
posted @ Fri, Feb 1, 2008 1:15:17 pm EST from 24.227.200.138

By the way guys, are all of the free Gargoyles fonts the same? If they aren't all the same, does anyone know which site has the best one?
Rebel
posted @ Fri, Feb 1, 2008 1:07:36 pm EST from 24.227.200.138

You know it's always surprised me that their isn't more interest in Gargoyles form the Trekkie community. I once did a search for "Gargoyles" on the startrek.com message boards and only found two or three post. Considering how uh... Enthusiastic Trekkie's can be about any thing remotely connected to their favorite franchise, you'd think they'd by all over Gargoyles.

Just out of curiosity, how many trek fans do we have in this comment room? I'm also wondering if any of you came to the fandom via trek? Maybe you heard that your favorite trek actor was on the show or you where channel surfing when you heard what sounded like counselor Troi ranting about destroying humanity and your interest was piqued?
Algernon
Treat people in your debt like family... exploit them. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition No. 111
posted @ Fri, Feb 1, 2008 12:21:45 pm EST from 86.41.203.86

Siren, Or anyone, really> How would you get a screen shot off of a DVD? Thanks.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Fri, Feb 1, 2008 11:54:36 am EST from 75.156.180.163

And excuse my double post, but one of us video editors has got to make a Star Trek/Gargoyles cross over with appropriate casting and amazing/hilarious timing. I would love get it done, but I know I wouldn't be able to make any head way for months; we don't have that kind of time.

Greg? Siren? Anyone else with an video editor/eyes/ears?
Spoonvonstup - [<-- Gargoyles Music Video Database]
posted @ Fri, Feb 1, 2008 11:19:15 am EST from 72.22.178.36

@Rebel- Yes, absolutely. Anything to spread the joy around. In fact, here's a download link for whatever you made need.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=T5Z6E1JZ

Let me know if I can help you with anything else. Everyone else, I've got the trailer up on Youtube and LiveVideo; if you can think of somewhere else it should be (or if you feel like we would get more exposure if other people had the video in their accounts) feel free to download the video as well and post it all over the internet. I don't care if I'm the one showing it or not, since that is not the point. The video was made for the Gargoyles comic and fandom.
Spoonvonstup - [<-- Gargoyles Music Video Database]
posted @ Fri, Feb 1, 2008 11:15:58 am EST from 72.22.178.36

Jack-Pumpkinhead> No, can you post it?

And speaking of Previews, can someone post the concept cover of Bad Guys #4 that was in the newest issue too for those who haven't seen it? Thanks.
(The Gargoyles Pulse - updated 01/28/08)
Anthony Tini
posted @ Fri, Feb 1, 2008 10:36:10 am EST from 159.240.11.254

"And now for something completely different"

Hey, has anyone seen the latest issue of Previews? They have a new statue from Randy Bowen's studio that looks almost exactly like Goliath. Seriously, it's pretty cool.
Jack-Pumpkinhead - [jtjgundam at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Fri, Feb 1, 2008 10:20:26 am EST from 150.201.52.244

Correction: it seems(?) that YTMND sponsorships last for a week now, not 24 hours. I was thinking of the old system.
Lumpmoose - [lumpmoose at googles dot email dot service]
posted @ Fri, Feb 1, 2008 9:47:27 am EST from 216.250.163.157

Rebel, I think YTMND sponsorship is a great idea. Look at this link: http://trekgargoyles.ytmnd.com/ to see a successful Gargoyles-related site. Back when Greg said the 3rd DVD wouldn't be coming out, I tried sponsoring the trekgargoyles site to spread the word. My idea was to get that site to appear on the front page of YTMND.com, then I would write in the comments section about the DVD. It worked great. I put about $19 towards the site and it showed up for a day or two on the front page of ytmnd.com. The site jumped up by several thousand more viewers in that time period.

But the problem was, I think most people just clicked the link, laughed a little, then moved onto another site without reading my comments, so they never learned about the DVD.

But the site was funny enough to now flourish above 40K viewers. With the exception of that Scientology site, the only sites that ever become 'Top Viewed' on YTMND are funny sites or sites that reference pop culture, especially geek pop culture. http://trekgargoyles.ytmnd.com/ has all three, which is why it now has 40K+ viewers. A Star Trek: TNG reference goes a long way on YTMND. If want my advice, copy the trekgargoyles idea. Its Star Trek voice actor connection is the best way to connect with the geeks of that community. I became aware of Gargoyles myself by browsing old TNG actors on IMDb and spotting the connection.

I'd suggest using the trekgargoyles image and music exactly, then adding a couple of pictures at the end of the GIF talking about the comic book. Be sure to cite the trekgaroyles.ytmnd.com site in the source section, then you'll be covered: no one will consider it plagiarism. If you think you can improve the comic timing or humor of trekgargoyles, great. More power to you. But if you don't make the YTMND site really funny, the site won't have legs and viewers will drop off after the site leaves the sponsored section of the front page in 24 hours.
Lumpmoose - [lumpmoose at googles dot email dot service]
posted @ Fri, Feb 1, 2008 9:41:11 am EST from 216.250.163.157

Yeah -- I don't think the Gathering holds much appeal for casual fans. Chances are that anyone who would be interested in attending the Gathering already knows about it. Especially since they started right when the show went off the air, not in the long interim.

The dvds and comics, though, could have totally passed under the radar of people who would be delighted to hear about them but haven't kept up with what seemed to be a finished franchise. My approach has been not so much to lure total newbies, but to get old viewers and say, "Hey, see what happened when you weren't looking!"

Of course, there's no need to keep the Gathering a *secret*... ;)
bluewyvern
"Attend the petty jealousies and angers that prey upon your heart."
posted @ Fri, Feb 1, 2008 7:40:22 am EST from 208.194.97.9

Patrick> Promoting the Gathering is definitely a good thing, but I kind of think it's best to go slow when trying to get someone into "Gargoyles". It could be a bit too overwhelming if you're trying to introduce someone to the series and get the to buy the DVDs and start reading the comic and think about attending the annual convention. If you have someone who's already excited about "Gargoyles" - either because they remember the show and just didn't know about the DVD and comic or because you've successfully gotten them into it - then you can mention that there's a convention they might want to go to. But the first step is to get people interested in "Gargoyles".
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Fri, Feb 1, 2008 7:33:23 am EST from 209.6.248.33

How about spreading the word about The Gathering while promoting the comic book? The annual conventions are part of what helped bring about the DVDs and the comic book. Tell people about the comic book, yes, but throw in a plug for the convention, too. :)

147 days left until The Gathering 2008 in Chicago, Illinois!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Fri, Feb 1, 2008 7:06:47 am EST from 76.241.146.141

Spreading the word:

Purely by coincidence I posted today in two communities on Livejournal; below please find the link to the entry that provides code for the exact same advertisements you see to the left here on S8 for the comic and DVDs to be pasted wherever you see fit. Myspace bio, LJ bio, personal webpage, HTML friendly message boards! Like I say in the post, I hope it works:

http://community.livejournal.com/stone_by_day/50416.html
Valerie - [vaddoniz at gmail dot com]
I need... a 'de-tect-ive.'
posted @ Fri, Feb 1, 2008 3:42:00 am EST from 24.187.32.2

Spreading the word>

1) Introducing Gargoyles to the younger generation

-- my friend Tina at work has two young children, one born in 1995, the other in 1997 and have no idea that Gargoyles even exists. The plan is that I'm going to let them borrow my Season 1 DVD box set. If the kids enjoy it, then I will share the Season 2 box set and eventually my recorded VHS tapes of the rest of the season. Then with them craving and wanting more, I will introduce them to the comics and trade paperback.

My hope is that they fall in love with it, they make their mom buy them the comics and trade paperback and the DVDs. This would be great and a start, but more importantly and ideally, the kids tell their friends in school, get them interested and so on and so forth. SO, ultimately, we could have the domino effect which would be fabulous for all of us.

We love Gargoyles, and we know that the cartoon has the power to draw new fans if they give it a chance, so we need to let it do just that with a little push. We need to light the match to start the fire. I suggest you do the same.

2) Message Boards

a) Garyinthemorning.com
-- Internet radio show heard by people all over the world
-- posting on their message boards, hoping to possibly get some air time later on down the road (work in progress)

b) theforce.net
-- user DRHJ9 on message board potentially interested, hopefully he buys the comic and spreads the word to his friends (work in progress)

c) g4tv.com
-- 143 views currently on thread I created there last Thursday, unfortunately no responses yet; (a work in progress)
(The Gargoyles Pulse - updated 01/28/08)
Anthony Tini
posted @ Fri, Feb 1, 2008 12:55:51 am EST from 70.15.84.29

Here, here, Ed! We tend to take the wrong point of view about things, and forget how good things are. Yeah, we have a lot to do to keep it, but it's not doomed outright, nor do we have any real word of it being so. I'll do my best to see about improving things, like asking my comics guy if he could get a couple copies of the trade out in case people might like to be it (I keep forgetting to do so). It's small, but it's more than I have been doing.
Asatira
posted @ Thu, Jan 31, 2008 11:14:01 pm EST from 75.143.104.205

Ed >> I enjoyed your sermon! XD

Since you mentioned Comic-Con, I guess I should briefly go into some detail about (in case some of you never attended the convention). The San Diego Comic-Con happens to be one of (if not) the biggest comic book/popular arts conventions in the nation. Last year was the first time the convention sold out (yes...it's that big). Had it not been for Greg W. and Hedgecock making an appearance like they did last year, I wouldn't have known about the comic, the Gathering, the DVDs, or even this website! I wouldn't have a sketch from Hedgecock of Greg's autograph on my comics either! All it really took was wandering the huge exhibit hall and finding out he was there. Some of you may have already noticed my question in the Ask Greg queue regarding Comic-Con 2008. I'm hoping he does make an appearance again. I'd do what I can to spread the word.

Gathering bids >> Bring the Gathering to San Diego~!!!
The One Known As Mochi - [shogi dot keima dot 08 at gmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>T3T)> My throat hurts...
posted @ Thu, Jan 31, 2008 11:08:52 pm EST from 72.199.225.9

Rosalyn: Welcome to the CR -- Have a cookie!

Not sure how much you know already, but there's a movement right on this page (scroll down to Ed's post).

If you want the next DVD (beleive me, we all do), then help spread the word about the show, ESPECIALLY the comic (again, Ed's post below pretty much sums it up).
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Thu, Jan 31, 2008 10:58:51 pm EST from 157.242.217.95

Dear Greg(Father Of Gargoyles), for the love of God, please put the rest of the show on dvd! Gargoyles is like the best thing from my childhood memories, maybe the only good thing. I'll start a movement if you want me to.
Rosalyn-Roz-Rozzy - [BlackOrchid2422 at gmail dot com]
Rosalyn
posted @ Thu, Jan 31, 2008 10:28:48 pm EST from 24.0.172.98

*holds a glass high*

Here, here Ed!

That's exactly why I've stayed out of this debate. I'm just thankful to all the hardworking men and women who are furthering something we all love. Without pointing blame for anything- Just thanks.
chris
why do we build castles in the sky?
posted @ Thu, Jan 31, 2008 10:06:47 pm EST from 66.211.201.24

Sorry for the double.

By the way, for those of you who want to help me out, you can register for a profile at http://ytmnd.com/

What I intend to do is make a really good ytmnd (perhaps with an alternate account), and then sponsor it. It will get, literally, thousands of views. Most of the users of this site are around the same age group as me, so many of them probably watched gargoyles when they were young. Also, I think many of them probably read comics and/or watch anime, so I think they're a decent audience to target.

Here's how you can help:
-Make an account on ytmnd and when I make my gargoyles ytmnd, you can upvote it, so it will have a higher rating
-If you have a few bucks to spare, you can also add sponsorship to it


I will probably make it towards the end of next week.
Rebel
posted @ Thu, Jan 31, 2008 10:05:27 pm EST from 24.227.200.138

Spoonvonstrup > If you're out there, I'm planning on making something that will really help promote Gargoyles. Would you mind if I used a few things from the video you made?
Rebel
posted @ Thu, Jan 31, 2008 9:40:41 pm EST from 24.227.200.138

Beautifully put, Ed.

People, what we need to remember is that when we're talking about "the artists" or "Slave Labor Graphics" or any other person or group of people involved with the comics, we're not talking about a giant mass of faceless assembly line workers at some giant company. We're talking about a very small number of individuals who I do believe are trying their best on these books. These are real people who are quite capable of coming here and seeing people speculate about how they might be responsible for the delays on the comic and getting upset or angry. The only point in the process where we really might be dealing with a big huge company is Disney and even there I doubt they have more than a handful of people dedicated to approving the comics. As Ed's pointed out, it's thanks to them that we've got seven comics worth of new "Gargoyles" stories so far, plus the start of one of the spin-offs, which would have seemed like an impossible dream just a few years ago. Yes, there are problems, but a lot has been done right and our job now is to do what we can to try and keep this good thing going for as long as we can.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Thu, Jan 31, 2008 8:53:44 pm EST from 209.6.248.33

*Applauds Ed*

Thank you, thank you. This is more of what we need around here. We need encouragement and we need to stop the blame game. Between the new web site and your words here, I give you full credit for rallying the troops. Let's hope it works, you've sure inspired me!
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Thu, Jan 31, 2008 8:12:54 pm EST from 24.207.160.51

Good grief, it's like the fandom equivalent of Russian Roulette in here sometimes. The comic is ALIVE. We have a SPIN-OFF. We have a TRADE PAPER-BACK. We haven't had it this good in 12 years which, frankly, is longer than I was aware of the series' existence. We're not dead yet, and we're not even up to our fighting weight. We've only just got a single site up, we haven't even started reaching out to a number of fandoms, nor pursuing the fan registry route.

I do understand, and share, the frustration at the delays, but I want to say something about SLG and the artists.

SLG is not some big company with butlers ironing the money in the penthouse. To the best of my knowledge, they have two full-time employees for their entire line. They've survived for 20 years in a very fickle industry and now they've taken on a huge enterprise with the Disney thing. Lisence fees and bureaucracy and standards and practices and printing in colour and printing to bigger audiences and fronting the costs in advance... It's a huge step up.

Sure, they dropped the ball a few times. But you know... a lot of stuff has gone RIGHT. They got fill-in artists and kept the schedule going through 2007. They got the trades out, they launched a SPIN-OFF, David Hedgecock QUIT HIS DAY JOB to do more on the comic, we've got a great new regular artist on BAD GUYS and a great new colourist/shader on both books, we've had people doing the rounds in the press at the right times. It's not like anybody's making huge profit out of this. I can't imagine anybody would do this job except for a love of comics and/or 'Gargoyles'.

I think SLG can justifiably feel a little bit let down by us, as well.

We wanted them to believe we had a big audience outright. WE DON'T.
We wanted them to believe that sales would be steady. THEY HAVEN'T BEEN.
We wanted them to believe we could spread the word and keep the comic growing. WE HAVEN'T.

But is that from a lack of trying on our part? Absolutely not. Should we believe there's a lack of trying on SLG's part? I don't see any logic by which that makes sense. If they drop the book, it won't be because they haven't tried; it will simply be because they've failed. And we CAN'T let them fail.

SLG have our backs: they're putting the comic on the stands when nobody else believed in us. So let's have theirs. Let's assume, until someone has concrete proof to the contrary, that everyone involved in this project has the very best of intentions. There is no them and us. There's just us. OUR comic is delayed this month. So WE'D better do something about it.

I for one believe we're still in this fight. The spin we've read is that the sales are dropping and insofar as it gets people moving that's good. But here's another spin which I believe is legitimised by the figures:

OUR SALES ARE ROCK STEADY.

What? But... huhhh?

Yup. Look:

165th place. Gargoyles #1 (7,500) --> Anomalous (premiere)
205th place. Gargoyles #2 (6,900) --> Anomalous (post-premiere fall-off)
189th place. Gargoyles #3 (6,504) --> Anomalous (second launch)
227th place. Gargoyles #4 (5,775) --> FIRST SETTLED NUMBER
236th place. Gargoyles #5 (5,737) --> *99.3%* retention *
236th place. Gargoyles #6 (5,433) --> Anomalous (price hike)
236th place. Gargoyles #7 (5,457) --> *100.4%* retention

(* And I know one of the 38 ship-jumpers on #5; he's a regular reader, but couldn't get a hold of this issue. Who's to say there's not a similar story for the other 37?).

Sure, we've shed the people who gave it a go, the people drawn by the hype and all that. EVERY comic is going to have some fall-off. But every regularly-scheduled issue where there's been no outside interference we're playing in the ballpark of keeping 99%-101% of our audience.

Not convinced? TAKE LOOK AT THE NUMBERS DOWN THE LEFT HAND SIDE. Are you seeing what I'm seeing? Three consecutive issues we've been in exactly the same spot relative to all the other issues released each month. We're holding.

Greg said that we need to AT LEAST stop shipping readers. I believe there is compelling evidence that this will happen.

Bad Guys is another matter. We just can't let that comic take a year to find its feet because it'll all be over by then. And if we can PROVE that Gargoyles fans are loyal enough to stick out a B&W spin-off and do numbers close to the lead book, that's got to be a huge coup. Maybe they could be tempted to put out more spin-offs concurrently if the logistics of the lisencing work out and Greg has time. Who knows?

Anyway, look at the difference in those numbers. The fall-off from May (when things were looking okay) to December is 318 people. Sure, there's Amazon to consider and direct orders from SLG and goodness knows what else. We need those to go up too. But let's just think of people ordering through Diamond in reg'lar old comic shops across the world.

318 people. Under half the Gargoyles fans registry. One extra convert per Gathering attendee. A tiny percentage of the visitors of elfquest.com or the big blogs for Star Trek or Joss Whedon. A puny proportion of the San Diego comic con attendance, but still a fairly small whack out of the relatively tiny Bristol con in the UK.

All we need to do is stop trying to convince ourselves we have a hope in hell, and start convincing them.

Let's not be the dog that starved to death in the abattoir.
Ed Reynolds
"Do it once, do it properly, get to sleep. The end result's always the same, so why drag it out?" -- Karl Pilkington
posted @ Thu, Jan 31, 2008 7:33:44 pm EST from 213.187.39.61

GregB>Yeah, it's definitely a step in the right direction. And Greg W. did say that if we can get sales of the comic to level off, we have at least a chance. (Hopefully SLG might factor in the potential if they can ever get this thing out on time.) I mean, if with every new release now 25 more are sold, by #10 that's 100 more than #6, a not insubstantial number in the terms we're talking. A huge jump in sales would be nice, but it's not necessarily realistic--it's the lots of little numbers that will add up for this fandom, not a few huge numbers.
Meg
posted @ Thu, Jan 31, 2008 7:15:25 pm EST from 138.16.28.211

Well, #7's sales went up a little. 25 copies, but like Ed said, it's a step in the right direction.
Greg Bishansky
"Leonardo was a great Italian, and that was our name originally, Leonardo. But many years ago, when my grandpa came over from Sicily, they changed it at Ellis Island to Leotardo. Because they're stupid, that's why, and jealous. They disrespected our proud Italian heritage and named us after a ballet costume." - Phil Leotardo
posted @ Thu, Jan 31, 2008 6:40:09 pm EST from 75.56.245.4

At least the comic is still good until #12 - and if it's clear that the sales are continuing to drop enough that it won't get renewed, Greg Weisman might have enough time to give that issue the tone of a series finale.

And there'll be other things. Greg can still create new fictional universes - maybe if the comic dies, he can create a world that would be even more impressive than the Gargoyles Universe.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Thu, Jan 31, 2008 6:33:25 pm EST from 4.245.19.150

Wingless> "Lower Echelon"? I don't think so. You've been here longer than I have! ANd that means a lot longer than many people around here. So you're pretty high up, I'd say.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Thu, Jan 31, 2008 5:33:49 pm EST from 75.156.180.163

The Gargoyles Pulse - That's the point I was trying to make. regardless the reason, the delays are hurting the comics chances, and it frustrates me hearing that WE're the ones that have to do all we can to promote and spread the word when ones in control of the Comic franchise (and I don't just mean Disney) can't get the bloody thing out on time. Yes, I know about the errors and the concerns about getting things right, but how do the other comics deal with quality control? Do they have the problems Gargs has had? I don't read comics other than Gargs so I really don't know(those of you that do I'd love to know the answer). Just the same, I'm buying multiple copies of the comics, talking it up, doing what I can - but it's up to those in control(whoever they be) to get their collective acts together and get the comics out on schecule or else no amout of work on our part is going to help save it. My final word on the subject.
Wingless
posted @ Thu, Jan 31, 2008 4:54:25 pm EST from 99.245.254.123

Whoever can claim fault for the delays is immaterial. The sad thing is is that delays don't bode well for a comic that is dying. Before Family Guy was cancelled it suffered being moved from time slot to time slot until the average viewer had no idea what day and time it was on. This resulted in ratings dropping and Fox cancelling the show.

So out of the many variables that we can't control, this is one that is most unfortunate, for DVD sales aren't going to bring back Gargoyles like they did for Family Guy.

They could, in theory, but I think people who haven't bought the DVDs are more likely to buy them when the comic is still alive and there is some glimmer of hope for a Season 2, Volume 2.
(The Gargoyles Pulse - updated 01/28/08)
Anthony Tini
posted @ Thu, Jan 31, 2008 3:48:47 pm EST from 159.240.11.254

Greg was ahead in writing the comics, but what about reviewing them for quality control? Anyway, I'm not trying to blame Greg. I was trying to demonstrate that we can't make assumptions and use those assumptions to blame the artists, SLG, Disney, or Greg. As others have said, we don't know enough about what's going on (and we don't need to know).
Phil - [p1anderson at go dot com]
posted @ Thu, Jan 31, 2008 3:29:11 pm EST from 134.215.196.82

""Greg had indicated in past posts at "Ask Greg" that he'd written the scripts for the upcoming comics" Glad Todd J. remembers reading that as well - So I'm not crazy. Then again, I'm a lower echelon garg fan who really doesn't know anything."

I remember it too. He indicated that he was pretty far ahead of schedule.
Rebel
posted @ Thu, Jan 31, 2008 2:52:53 pm EST from 76.165.36.85

"Greg had indicated in past posts at "Ask Greg" that he'd written the scripts for the upcoming comics" Glad Todd J. remembers reading that as well - So I'm not crazy. Then again, I'm a lower echelon garg fan who really doesn't know anything.
Wingless
posted @ Thu, Jan 31, 2008 2:38:36 pm EST from 99.245.254.123

PHIL - Greg had indicated in past posts at "Ask Greg" that he'd written the scripts for the upcoming comics, so I assumed that the delays might be with the art rather than the writing. But I'd also thought that he might have had to slow down because of his work on the "Spiderman" cartoon that you brought up. (Speaking of which, I read at Comics Continuum this morning that one of the voice actors in it will be Clancy Brown, who voiced both Wolf and Hakon.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, Jan 31, 2008 10:12:08 am EST from 198.209.226.130

Greg B., Patrick> I said this IF sevarius can create Thailog, he COULD make a shell of a Gargoyle. Where there's a will, there is a way.

Why would Xanatos or Sevarious want to help the Gargoyles? That would be up to the Writer's to figure out. Not me.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Thu, Jan 31, 2008 10:04:15 am EST from 75.156.180.163

Todd, you keep trying to blame the artists, but what if Greg is the reason for the delay? Due to a few unfortunate errors in previous issues, Greg promised to improve quality control. Maybe he is now checking every step of the process to avoid those errors. And of course he is very busy with "The Spectacular Spider-Man" and does not have much free time to commit to writing Gargoyles comics (which is really just a side job for him). It's too bad Greg isn't as committed to the success of Gargoyles as we the fans are. Maybe he secretly wants it to fail.

(BTW, those last two sentences are just me being facetious to demonstrate how wrong it is to make assumptions and jump to conclusions based on those assumptions. As others keep saying, let's just all stop trying to place blame.)
Phil - [p1anderson at go dot com]
posted @ Thu, Jan 31, 2008 9:18:10 am EST from 134.215.196.82

Potential Delays> As I said before, there is no use in trying to figure out why the comics aren't done yet. None. We do not know the reason and we won't know the reason unless Greg or someone else involved with the comic chooses to tell us. Speculating about what might have caused the delays doesn't get us anywhere. Even if we knew for certain what the problem was, none of us work at SLG and so none of us can work to resolve it. Now I do think that if there is a step that repeatedly causes delays in the process on SLG's end, something should be done to correct that. But we have no idea if that's the case. And trying to assign blame, even if it's done with very reasonable suggestions of good reasons why the comic might not be finished, is still assigning blame and without knowing the full story, it would be very easy to assign blame unfairly.

I agree that this is frustrating and i agree that a major factor in the comic's declining sales is probably the very unreliable release schedule. But this isn't reason for us to despair and throw in the towel. As I've said before, there are some books in the comics industry that have even more infrequent and unpredictable releases than "Gargoyles", including some from Slave Labor. They continue to sell because people are excited about them and are willing to buy them when they come out. Now it is a tougher sell when you're dealing with a comic that has a continuing storyline. But our job right now is to get people excited about the comic to the point where they just want to read the next issue whenever it comes out. We could just give up and say "It's never going to work because the comic keeps getting delayed and Disney won't put out Season 2 Part 2 and none of the people I tell about 'Gargoyles' are interested." It's your choice as an individual. But if "Gargoyles" means that much to you, don't you want to at least try to do your part? If the comic does get cancelled, would you rather being saying "At least I know I did everything I could on my end" or "I wonder if I could have made a difference if I had stuck with it?"

Your call. Your move.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Thu, Jan 31, 2008 8:06:32 am EST from 209.6.248.33

I've said this before, but I think that the most likely reason for the delay is that something might have made the artists fall behind schedule. (Since we know that the comics aren't finished yet - so the people at Disney who are supposed to approve them aren't to blame - and Greg Weisman must have already finished the writing.) They could very well have other artist jobs besides just drawing the comics, and have to divide their work up between them. (Also, there's always the possibility of family emergencies producing a further delay.)
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Thu, Jan 31, 2008 7:24:49 am EST from 4.244.213.41

Oh yea, one more thing. Has anybody heard about bids for the next gathering?
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Thu, Jan 31, 2008 6:01:46 am EST from 98.20.146.216

Phoenician - <I just found out that "Double Chocolate Chip Cookies" arent' those dark black cookies, but cookies with double the chocolate chips. (I attached the "Double" to "Chocolate" and not to "Chocolate Chip") Go figure.> Don't feel bad. I made some sweet potato biscuits only to discover that the taste of biscuits doesn't mix with the taste of sweet potatoes.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Thu, Jan 31, 2008 6:00:05 am EST from 98.20.146.216

Bad Guys #4: This should be a funny issue -- I was already getting a kick out of the Dingo/Matrix relationship, and if they're included with Fang and Sevarious (and those two always pack a punch of humor), then it should be very cool indeed.

BG#2 & #8: *(Sigh)* Well, everything's been said regarding this news, so I'm off to stick that banner on a couple of online sites (and the animation department at my school, they should get excited with that -- especially with the relase of CB,VI)

Off Topic: I just found out that "Double Chocolate Chip Cookies" arent' those dark black cookies, but cookies with double the chocolate chips. (I attached the "Double" to "Chocolate" and not to "Chocolate Chip") Go figure.
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Thu, Jan 31, 2008 3:55:07 am EST from 157.242.219.254

Cranewings> My boyfriend and I are, for the 3rd year in a row.

Greg B.> "Greg said today, a few hours ago, that neither Gargoyles #8 nor Bad Guys #2 were complete, but they were close. They aren't even on Disney's approval desk yet. This was said today. Go to Ask Greg and look if you don't believe me."

Great. Just great.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Thu, Jan 31, 2008 2:23:04 am EST from 75.42.211.226

What's up people? Is anyone going to the Gathering?

late.
Cranewings - [panthercrane at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Thu, Jan 31, 2008 12:33:29 am EST from 71.64.152.250

Anthony> It'd be nice to pick and choose from any page, but I found a bit there that will suit my needs. Thanks!
bluewyvern
"Attend the petty jealousies and angers that prey upon your heart."
posted @ Wed, Jan 30, 2008 11:45:04 pm EST from 69.112.108.43

great site, Bluewyvern! very informative with good links. Thanks!
g'night ya'll
chris
why do we build castles in the sky?
posted @ Wed, Jan 30, 2008 11:05:39 pm EST from 66.211.201.24

blue> Here's some samples on this page: http://www.comicon.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=36;t=006756

If you want a specific page, then let me know.
(The Gargoyles Pulse - updated 01/28/08)
Anthony Tini
posted @ Wed, Jan 30, 2008 11:04:39 pm EST from 70.15.84.29

Well, I finally have my big Gargoyles advertisement post up on my blog: http://bluewyverntea.blogspot.com/2008/01/gargoyles-lives-again.html

Has anyone seen any sample pages online? I'd love to be able to provide a snippet of the actual artwork from the comic, but I haven't come across anything...
bluewyvern
"Attend the petty jealousies and angers that prey upon your heart."
posted @ Wed, Jan 30, 2008 10:54:49 pm EST from 69.112.108.43

Samuel>I hadn't noticed until you mentioned it but yes, mine has those typos too.

"People may have read them and assumed that all the comics were going to be re-tellings of The Goliath Chronicles"

People have also asked me if the comics are just comic forms of the existing series starting with the beginning (ie, Season One).
Meg
posted @ Wed, Jan 30, 2008 10:20:00 pm EST from 138.16.28.211

I agree with Matt. Assigning blame isn't particularly useful.

Brentwood: I can definitely see Brentwood out-Thailog-ing Thailog. It would also fail to surprise me to see Thailog lead on Brentwood so long as he benefits from it.

Cold-Trio: I personally feel that separating the souls from the Coldstone body wasn't great. I think I liked the Coldstone character better before he was separated into two "good guys" and one "bad guy." Additionally, I think it would have been neat if Desdemona had survived the massacre, and Coldstone was Othello/Iago in the Coldstone body.

My TPB: It also has the Maria Chavez "I"m back, detective" (The Journey) Brooklyn "--at the Labryinth" (Invitation Only) typos in it. I was wondering if that was just an unfixed typo in all of them, or just mine. (for the record, I do love my TPB, the error makes it endearing to me)
Samuel - [AnglOfHellO at AOL dot com]
Noodles, anyone?
posted @ Wed, Jan 30, 2008 9:55:09 pm EST from 68.34.84.220

"People may have read them and assumed that all the comics were going to be re-tellings of The Goliath Chronicles"

they have...whenever I see someone make that kind of comment I make sure to correct them and let them know they should check out the rest of the comics, because they are NOT a rehashing of that misguided series and are NEW, GREAT stories...
chris
why do we build castles in the sky?
posted @ Wed, Jan 30, 2008 9:51:58 pm EST from 66.211.201.24

Stop bickering. It doesn't matter. There is nothing we can do about and complaining and trying to place blame wastes time and is silly. If the comic is cancelled I'm sure we'll have years to assign blame. Right now we need to put all our energy to making sure we never have to point fingers. Greg and SLG are aware of the difficulties on their end much better than we are, and I'm sure they are doing their best to improve and make the comics come out on schedule. Meanwhile, we need to focus on what we can do and do it so that if the comic is cancelled we don't get blamed for it, as we did with S2:V2.
I know it is frustrating and I know it blows some steam to lay blame, but don't worry about that yet, focus on SPREADING THE WORD. When people ask about release dates, tell them the most up to date info we have and hope you are right.
Bickering amongst ourselves solves nothing.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Wed, Jan 30, 2008 9:04:56 pm EST from 24.207.160.51

Ed > I fixed it. Try it now:

http://tribe.ulm.edu/~fornearl/gargoylesnobg2.png
Rebel
posted @ Wed, Jan 30, 2008 9:01:58 pm EST from 24.227.200.138

Wingless> Greg said today, a few hours ago, that neither Gargoyles #8 nor Bad Guys #2 were complete, but they were close. They aren't even on Disney's approval desk yet. This was said today. Go to Ask Greg and look if you don't believe me.
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Wed, Jan 30, 2008 8:54:25 pm EST from 75.36.123.78

A lot of people have stated that the delays are probably the big reason why sales are falling. I would definitely agree with that. If there's one main reason why Gargoyles doesn't sell well and SLG ends up not renewing the license, it's because of the delays.

I would also add that issues 1 and 2 may have contributed to the falling sales. People may have read them and assumed that all the comics were going to be re-tellings of The Goliath Chronicles (idiotic, I know, but some people--especially those who don't know much about comics--may have come to that conclusion). Also, people may not have liked the art/coloring in the first 2 or 3 issues, and assumed that the whole series would look like that.

But, I definitely think the main reason is the delays. And yes, Disney is definitely partially (or even mostly) to blame for that, but it's not all their fault. If Disney consistently takes forever to approve them, then I think that just means that everyone working on the books will have to get all their work done months in advance (which, if they can ever get "caught up" and then get ahead a little, shouldn't be too hard).
Rebel
posted @ Wed, Jan 30, 2008 8:39:27 pm EST from 24.227.200.138

Greg B: Um - Greg W. also said some time ago that he was finished writing and ahead by several issues (at least 3 if not 4). So, that being true than the art should have already been long underway and completed on at least some of the issues as well. So telling us the issues weren't ready might work for Bad guys, but not for Gargoyles. So that leaves either SLG or Disney holding things up.
Wingless
posted @ Wed, Jan 30, 2008 8:19:57 pm EST from 99.245.254.123

PATRICK> Well then, I guess you also find it silly that monthly comics get solicited a full six issues ahead of the next one hitting the stands.

This is the way the comic book industry is, and has been since Diamond became THE distributor for all things comics. Amazing Spider-Man #556 is solicited before #550 hits the stands. That's just the way it is.

WINGLESS> Greg said that the next issues are not quite complete. How is that Disney's fault? Disney isn't writing and drawing these comics. They aren't producing them, SLG is. The comics aren't even on the approvals desk yet as far as Greg has told us. So, how is this Disney's fault?

In the future, and I'm trying to sound polite here, but please think of the full logistics before you start playing the blame game.
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Wed, Jan 30, 2008 8:07:31 pm EST from 75.36.123.78

Am I the only one who finds it a little silly that the solicitation for "Bad Guys #4" has gone out when "Bad Guys #2" is apparently) at least a month from hitting shelves?
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"If this were the last day of your life, my friend, tell me what do you think you would do then?" - Genesis, "Undertow"
posted @ Wed, Jan 30, 2008 7:30:48 pm EST from 76.241.146.141

CHRIS - Probably the usual case, in super-hero stories, of the super-villain, no matter how often he gets sent to prison, always being out on the streets again a few issues later. (I sometimes suspect that the prisons in Metropolis and Gotham City must truly be minimum security.) Of course, there's Demona's remark in "Temptation" about how, even if Brooklyn captured the purse-snatcher for human justice, "he'd be out on the streets again in a day". (Quote taken from memory.)

Ed's hypothesis of "Gargoyles" switching entirely to trade paperbacks - even if it might not be plausible (I don't know enough about the industry or SLG's situation to know if it is or not) - reminds me of "Age of Bronze", a comic-book-format retelling of the Trojan War; it started as a comic book with graphic novel collections, then switched entirely to the graphic novel format. (I bought the first three books in the series - the ones presently published - on the same day that I bought Gargoyles #7, and at the same store. The best part of it was that the graphic novels all had maps of the Aegean Sea, Greece, and Troy in them, and I was able to use the map to locate Samothrace when Gargoyles #7 mentioned Scota giving birth there.)
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Wed, Jan 30, 2008 7:02:48 pm EST from 4.244.212.83

Regarding the comics' delays, is there anybody at Disney and/or SLG that would sympathize with us fans? Someone that could help work out whatever keeps the comics getting tied up, etc. Late comics are better than none at all, but still: I really want to see an issue 13 and beyond. This comic is *so* much better than most of the other books I see on the shelves so often.
Bagpipes5K - [bagpipes5k2 at sbcglobal dot net]
posted @ Wed, Jan 30, 2008 6:47:57 pm EST from 69.211.221.44

How is Sevarius not in jail for his crimes against humanity and probably severe animal cruelty? Rhetorical question, I know. :)

Turning all of the city into mutants? That seems a little far fetched and too insane, even for Sevarius. He works for the highest bidder. Who would bid that out? I can't imagine Thailog wanting to do that, unless there was profit in it.
chris
why do we build castles in the sky?
posted @ Wed, Jan 30, 2008 6:46:38 pm EST from 66.211.201.24

If neither comic's finished yet, most likely something might be delaying the artists. We know now that the big delay of #2 was due to Hedgecock having so many other things to do that it slowed him down. Maybe the artists have several other responsibilities that are delaying them. (I remember we went through similar problems when I was working on TGS.)

Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be anything that we can do about it. I still wonder if the delays are the main reason for the dropping sales.

About "Bad Guys" #4: Greg Weisman said, when he held the light bulb competition, that he'd put the winning answer in "Bad Guys" if it ever got made. (Though he changed that to the runner-up answer, since the winning answer was a parody of Greg's favorite evasive answers at "Ask Greg".) Judging from Bishansky's report on this issue, I have a pretty good idea when and where we're going to see that joke.

(I never submitted my answer - I thought it would be too close to an idea in disguise - but I saw it as being "Before the person telling the riddle can state the answer, he gets beaten up by the violent pro-gargoyle organization suggested by Greg Bishansky.")

So Sevarius is planning to turn all the New Yorkers into Mutates, eh? Looks like Xanatos should have kept a closer watch on that guy. (I certainly can't imagine Xanatos wanting Sevarius to do something like that. Far too melodramatic and wasteful for his tastes.)
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Wed, Jan 30, 2008 6:39:09 pm EST from 4.244.212.83

i think it would be awesome to have a graphic novel every 6 months but who knows...
I dont think I like the idea of Brent comming out 1st but if he did you would think some of the other clan members would kinda have a feeling Lex might be gay, and maybe help him along.
I was going to wait until #8 came out before i orderd 7,8 and BG 2 but that seems to be a while away. Does anyone know what the cheapest website to get a single comic is. thanks.
bob
no, are ya mad these are your childern... no one thretens my eggs.- princess Katherine- Avalon Part 2
posted @ Wed, Jan 30, 2008 6:20:28 pm EST from 66.202.98.35

I think Brentwood, as of right now, is far to new to the world to manipulate or use Thailog in any way. I think he'll eventually wise up (and start putting that Lexington-intelligence to good/bad use), but for now I think he'll be Thailog's doting pet, at least for a while.
Rebel
posted @ Wed, Jan 30, 2008 6:15:55 pm EST from 24.227.200.138

Sorry for the double post. Forgot to add:

I'd be surprised if Iago doesn't have an Emilia.

As for Brentwood... I don't see why (1) he would necessarily be attracted to Thailog, and (2) if he was, why these emotions would be anything he couldn't control/use. He might see Thailog as, say, Thailog saw Demona. Useful, diverting; but ultimately too problematic to be kept around long-term.

Brentwood's programming was simple, but then Dark Ages 'programming' doesn't exactly prepare you to reprogram cyborgs and Lex managed. I can see Brentwood handling a similar learning curve. I hope so, anyway.
Ed Reynolds
"It's not fair though because all them lot have been up there ages with like a chance to get a bit of sun on the body and that so they'll look alright. I'll be wandering about with underpant marks and stuff." -- Karl Pilkington on heaven
posted @ Wed, Jan 30, 2008 5:37:09 pm EST from 213.187.39.61

Bad Guys and Pendragon music: What about keeping it in the family? Carl Johnson has a lot of music samples on his site (http://www.swanderfulmusic.com).

I'd recommend:
'Bad Guys' -- None are perfect, but ActionAdventure3 isn't bad.
'Pendragon' -- Probably "Epic", though check out the latter half of the Action Adventure remix, and the ending section of
'Timedancer' -- 40 Days and 40 Nights is mostly cool, if long.

Rebel: Thanks for the heads up. I've removed it for now.

Spoonvonstup: Thanks!

The Coldtrio: Insofar as they have a future, I think it should be as metal and stone. But I have to say, I've never been great fans of them and wouldn't mind seeing the back of them. 'Othello' worked because of it was a singular story and that was very effective. But at the end of that story, Desdemona and Othello are dead and Iago has returned to silence. But these characters seem to be playing out the same relationships. The rest of the universe is about growth. I hope we'll see some interesting stuff coming out of them. But if they went out in a blaze of glory I wouldn't exactly be gutted.

(Incidentally, I realised the other day that I think all the named characters in the dark ages section of "Awakening" are still around in 1994. Katharine, Tom and the Magus are on Avalon; Mary is in Manhattan; Hakon and the Captain are ghosts. As Othello and the Archmage also return to the present, that means Malcolm is the only Dark Age character from Season One whose story, as far as we know, is ended in the Dark Ages).

BAD GUYS #4: Why does that make me think "mutagenic formula in the water system"?

Matt: Glad to hear that. March would be a real blow to the book. Although judging by Greg's comment on BG not being with Disney yet, I fear it's quite plausible.

I have to say, if SLG does pick up the lisence, I actually really hope they ditched the periodical format. I just don't think the 24-page bi-monthly format does the series any favours at all:

1. The comics are far more often delayed than on time, which makes it hard to get a good rhythm down.
2. The stories are by their nature pretty complex and fast-paced. I really don't know how feasible it is for anyone to jump on mid-way through a lot of these plots.
3. Artists and colourists being switched up mid-run to make up for delays.
4. With the sheer number of characters in some issues, the pacing can often feel slow -- "Masque" suffered from this significantly, I felt.

I read that SLG weren't committing to new projects in this format because people are more likely to try new stuff as a graphic novel than a floppy. I really think occasional 60+ page graphic novels would be a far stronger format for the books.

1. We could get a whole storyline in one go.
2. Deadline shifts wouldn't be as critical to the comic's fortunes. The books would, literally, have a longer shelf life.
3. Artists could stick with one story to completion.
4. If SLG stuck to the smaller size, they could save on paper.
5. Since the people we're needing to spread the word to are unlikely to be into comics (or able to be into comics), getting them out to comic stores is going to be more of an uphill struggle than getting them to bookstores.

It also might have more of a crossover appeal with manga type books, especially if they can get Disney agree to 'Gargoyles' switching to B&W (not that I don't love the colour, and Robby's doing a blinding job, but I'd rather have a B&W book than no book).

Perhaps it's not a viable model for SLG to pay page rates for stuff that might be six months away. Perhaps without the ability to 'double-dip' with the periodicals and trades it wouldn't be worth it. Perhaps Disney would throw a tizzy. But if not...
Ed Reynolds
"You don't see an old man having a Twix." -- Karl Pilkington
posted @ Wed, Jan 30, 2008 5:24:09 pm EST from 213.187.39.61

Patrick: So I guess that begs the question. Harry Shearer (the voice of both Mr. Burns and Smithers, among many other characters in Springfield) describes Smithers as a "Burns-a-sexual." So, I wonder if Brentwood is a Thailog-a-sexual?
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Perhaps it is because I feel comfortable manipulating humans that I desire to save them. My feelings and thoughts constantly migrate to binary opposites." -Durandal
posted @ Wed, Jan 30, 2008 5:19:32 pm EST from 71.62.198.251

Comic Status> I would hesitate t speculate on what might have caused the upcoming issues if the comics to be still unfinished. We son't kow and we won't know unless someone involved with the book says something. Let's just wait and see and stay positive.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Wed, Jan 30, 2008 5:07:17 pm EST from 209.6.248.33

*sighs about the delays* It's frustrating. We as fans do what we can to promote the comic, and yet again we can't seem to get the powers that be to get the damn thing out on schedule. I have people asking about when the things are coming out and they get frustrated as well - being I'm the one "connected" as it where to what's going on-hanging out here as I do. I know all we can do is wait, but it seems the whole franchise is set up to fail - and sorry, but it's all in Disney's lap. We've MORE than done our part. We've made our Videos, websites, artwork, websites, bought the products, videos, comics, etc and spread the word as much as we can. Yes, delays can sometimes happen, but we've gotten to an extreme with gargs here. No blame to Greg W. here. I love ya Greg, but at the same time, if things should fall flat with the comic in the end, it won't be the fandom's fault either. Blame it on 2 words - repeated delays!
Wingless
posted @ Wed, Jan 30, 2008 5:04:40 pm EST from 99.245.254.123

KingCobra>Looks like neither will be out for a while, unfortunately. In today's "Ask Greg," Greg says that neither are quite finished (both are close), but they both still need Disney approval. So I'm thinking maybe late Febrary/early March for both (or later, if SLG chooses to stagger the release dates).

Damn. :\
Meg
posted @ Wed, Jan 30, 2008 3:58:49 pm EST from 128.148.41.71

KingCobra_582> Greg Weisman mentioned something today concerning those two comics. I don't understand why they are not finished and they aren't on Disney's desk to be approved yet? Artist problems?
Anthony Tini (The Gargoyles Pulse...)
...updated 01/28/08
posted @ Wed, Jan 30, 2008 3:57:58 pm EST from 159.240.11.254

Patrick-> I never said such a combination would happen naturally- in vitro (not vivo) only.

We really will never know how many attempts it took Sevarius to make the clones or the mutates for that matter. But with every failure and success he evidently got better at it. Take Derrek for example- one shot of the mutagen worked. He had perfected the technique of creating the mutants. It's probably safe to safe to assume he's perfected cloning- proof of such are the readily available final products.

Sure, if what I propose could be true, most of the characteristics would probably be gargoyle (as in the case of Delilah), but through the combination (in whatever ratio) of Elisa & Goliath's genes, it would essentially be their child. -kinda the same way Thailog is Goliath's 'son.' And surely they would love it as their child no matter what the ratio is(or maybe raise it in a more gargoyle-y traditionally way, but Goliath's been a softy on Angela, so what's to say he wouldn't be the same with another child)

Still not saying this is what they would *ever* want or even consider-...Haven't I read that they actually kinda adopt a human child?... I could be wrong.

Human in vitro- many many embryos need to be created in the hopes of just one taking. The same could be said about this speculated child- it would probably take many tries.
chris
why do we build castles in the sky?
posted @ Wed, Jan 30, 2008 3:48:05 pm EST from 66.211.201.24

Greg B.> Thanks for posting the summary. I'm all but salivating over it.

Any further news on Gargoyles #8 or Bad Guys #2?
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Wed, Jan 30, 2008 3:17:16 pm EST from 76.222.100.193

Gargoyles: Bad Guys #4
by Greg Weisman & Karine Charlebois

'Redemption,' Chapter 4: Losers. How many mutates does it take to screw in a light bulb? Well, if you're Dr. Sevarius and Fang, the answer is: 'Never enough!' Can Hunter, Yama, Dingo, and Matrix stop our mad scientist's nefarious plan for the city of Manhattan?"
Greg Bishansky
"Leonardo was a great Italian, and that was our name originally, Leonardo. But many years ago, when my grandpa came over from Sicily, they changed it at Ellis Island to Leotardo. Because they're stupid, that's why, and jealous. They disrespected our proud Italian heritage and named us after a ballet costume." - Phil Leotardo
posted @ Wed, Jan 30, 2008 2:55:03 pm EST from 75.56.245.4

Patrick> I believe Greg said that Delilah is maybe 10% human. It's all cosmetic, nothing more.
Greg Bishansky
"Leonardo was a great Italian, and that was our name originally, Leonardo. But many years ago, when my grandpa came over from Sicily, they changed it at Ellis Island to Leotardo. Because they're stupid, that's why, and jealous. They disrespected our proud Italian heritage and named us after a ballet costume." - Phil Leotardo
posted @ Wed, Jan 30, 2008 12:44:09 pm EST from 75.56.245.4

Battle Beast: Even if he wanted to because someone was paying him big bucks to do so, how would Sevarius go about making a "shell" of a clone that has no soul of its own so that someone else's soul could take up residence? He can grow cells in a test tube, but presumably it's a much, much higher power than him, Xanatos, or even the elusive "Number 1" who passes out souls.

Just because human and gargoyle DNA could be combined to create Delilah doesn't mean it could happen naturally and it doesn't even mean that it was easy. We have no idea how many test tube trials Sevarius went through before he got a viable hybrid with the traits he wanted from both species. Truthfully, Delilah seems to be much more gargoyle than human. She has wings, a tail, turns to stone, and has gargoyle musculature and strength. Her similarities to her human parent are all superficial ones.
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
posted @ Wed, Jan 30, 2008 12:39:54 pm EST from 24.106.128.24

Battle Beast: Why would Sevarius help? Why would Puck?

Puck only did what he did in "Possession" because it benefited Xanatos. Not to help the gargoyles, as I get the feeling when all is said and done, he could care less about them.

Puck told Goliath it was a "present", but Xanatos would never have done it unless he gained something from it, which as we are seeing now with Coldsteel, he did. I'm sure he has further plans for Coldstone and Coldfire as well.

Xanatos never does anything for altruistic reasons, he is a snake. Does he feel gratitude towards Goliath and his clan? Yes, he does. But I guarantee you that he would not have invited them back if he didn't see an advantage for himself in it.

Why would giving the Coldtrio flesh and blood bodies benefit him? For that matter why would it benefit Sevarius? Or Sevarius's boss, Thailog?
Greg Bishansky
"Leonardo was a great Italian, and that was our name originally, Leonardo. But many years ago, when my grandpa came over from Sicily, they changed it at Ellis Island to Leotardo. Because they're stupid, that's why, and jealous. They disrespected our proud Italian heritage and named us after a ballet costume." - Phil Leotardo
posted @ Wed, Jan 30, 2008 12:21:48 pm EST from 75.56.245.4

I think... going back to the point about the Cold trio... that you all MAY be missing something. They had already been given real, live, mortal bodies. Brooklyn, Angela and Broadway.

If Sevarius can clone a Gargoyle and make him smarter (or, at least, as smart) as Goliath (which is amazing in itself), then he could creat a shell of a gargoyle clone and let the soul transferance do it's thing.

I'd love to see the Cold Trio mortal again, but if it doesn't happen, then so be it.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Wed, Jan 30, 2008 11:49:00 am EST from 75.156.180.163

Hello again; just here to make a bit more speculation, this time about "Timedancer".

Assuming things go okay with the comic (meaning, it gets released), issues 10-12 will feature the start of Brooklyn's Timedancing journey. It's been revealed that Brooklyn will return to the Eyrie Building shortly after he left, though forty years later from his perspective, and bring with him Katana, Nashville, Fu-Dog, and the unhatched egg that will become Tachi.

Granted, that's all canon-in-training for the time being, but there's a strong chance there will be little deviation from that.

The question that I'm raising is this; we know that female Gargoyles only lay three eggs in their lifetime over a period of about fifty years (egg one is conceived in 1907, laid in 1908, hatches in 1918, and so on). We know of two of Brooklyn's offspring; will he have a third biological kid?

I don't know myself, but I think there's a strong chance, assuming something nasty doesn't happen to Katana.
Echowarrior - [WARendfeld at aol dot com]
posted @ Wed, Jan 30, 2008 11:41:12 am EST from 161.32.228.101

Matt> I didn't intend to imply that the ColdTrio love their new existence and wouldn't have it any other way. What I meant to say was that if they really found it to be a fate worse than death to live as robots and a cyborg, they could of chosen the option of death. For any number of reasons - most of which you mentioned - they choose to live in the forms fate has given them. Greg has said before that hope is a major theme of "Gargoyles" and though their new bodies may come at a great price, the ColdTrio does seem to be choosing hope and life over despair and suicide. It doesn't mean they're happy about it all the time, but they have decided that it is currently worthwhile to live like this.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Wed, Jan 30, 2008 11:25:27 am EST from 209.6.248.33

SPOON - I just saw your video about the trade paperback over at Youtube (I watched it on a computer at the public library, since my computer doesn't handle Youtube as well), and thought it was well-done. I particularly liked your giving sequences for each individual story in the trade paperback. I hope it helps spread the word.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Wed, Jan 30, 2008 10:13:06 am EST from 198.209.226.130

Goliath & Elisa child: we've already seen the product of using science to blend the two species and it was successful: Delilah. Granted they would *never* use Sevarius to help make their child, humans use technology to have children all the time. Technology can allow two women to have a child together (combining 2 haploid egg nuclei the same as we combine a haploid egg and sperm in in vitro- all children are female though), so why not our favorite duo?

I know, I know, they don't (as far as Greg has led us to believe). And I'm not saying that they want/need/ whatever a child. Just stating the possibilities...
chris
why do we build castles in the sky?
posted @ Wed, Jan 30, 2008 9:42:09 am EST from 66.211.201.24

Vinnie> Great thought on the helicopter. I guess after they used the remainder of Jackal and Hyena's fuel, they couldn't really keep using it anymore.

Rebel> "Also, I wonder about Iago's biological child that's currently living on Avalon."
- We have no indication either way whether he has a biological child on Avalon or not. We don't even know if he had a mate, though I've often wondered if Hyppolyta was his mate. Though another cool theory is that Demona's Second was Hyppolyta's mate. Anyway, we'll have to wait and see, probably for Dark Ages.

Brentwood> Yeah, Brent has certainly become one of the more interesting clones. I too think he may out-Thailog Thailog eventually. If we were really going the Future Tense parallel route maybe he'd be stringing Thailog along for some time while he actually ran the show, or perhaps he'll wait til Thailog is killed but somehow keep his memory alive. Maybe he'll clone the first Thailog Shock Troops. Whatever Brentwood's fate, I have no doubt it'll be pretty damn interesting.

Coldtrio> I think saying that the Coldtrio have CHOSEN to be the way they are is not entirely accurate. Fate led them to where they are. And saying that the proof that they have chosen their lives is that they have not committed suicide is simply not true. You can't say "they want to be that way, or they'd have killed themselves". Is that the only way to go if you don't like your life? Coldstone and Coldfire are possibly happy to be alive, but I think "Possession" makes it clear they yearn for much more and are devastated by the loss of true sensation. But they are also warriors and resigned to their fate, they have responsibilities, they are not going to just off themselves, they wouldn't. So, like many people, they know they are who they are and may not love that reality, but also have no intention of suicide.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Wed, Jan 30, 2008 9:14:41 am EST from 24.207.160.51

You know I can't really understand the appeal of "refleshifing" the coldtrio. Surly their condition is part of what makes them such interesting and unique characters. I mean we already have dozens of flesh and blood gargs but only three cyber-zombie gargs.

Same goes for wanting Elisa and Goliath to have a biological child. One of the things I always liked about the G&E relationship is that it actually takes a semi-realistic view on the challenges of interspecies romance. It's almost as if some fans have this subconscious desire to make these characters less Interesting, which I personally find unfathomable.

Now what might be interesting would be for Goliath and Elisa to try and conceive via some short-cut like science or sorcery only to have it horrifically backfire in some way, though that kind of story might be a little too dark for the series, general tone.
Anonymous
posted @ Wed, Jan 30, 2008 8:42:00 am EST from 149.157.1.180

The Pack'helicopter: My own theory is that the clan was just not able to keep it's gas tank full without steal/sphoning to much fuel from other cars.

The Coldtrio: I get the shivers everytime I see a story where the trio are restored to flesh. That's just undoing actions and consequence.

:) Puck/Alex: I suppose most fans here have a point concerning quick fixes and magic but I'd still think some breeding season hijincks would be fun. One example is where Lex becomes the first male gargoyle to lay an egg. ;)
Vinnie - [tpeano29 at hotmail dot com]
It's silly. It's a silly movie. There just isn't much there. Once you take it all apart, there's not much story, is there?- George Lucas on Spider-Man 3
posted @ Wed, Jan 30, 2008 8:40:31 am EST from 69.54.209.125

chris> Certainly the ColdTrio's life is not an ideal one and includes some major, major hardships. But they seem to be choosing to live that life nonetheless. It might have been a different outcome if Goliath hadn't been able to convince ColdStone that there was some purpose in life for gargoyles in the modern age beyond mere survival. The loss of three of their five senses is hard on at leas ColdStone and ColdFire to be sure. (I don't know if ColdSteel cares. Probably, but he's unlikely to say anything.) But real people have lost senses and abilities they used to have and managed to keep going.

Thailog and Brentwood> Interesting thought that Brentwood might be the first to show signs of homosexuality, prompting Lex to confront his own sexuality. I think Lex's current concerns about Brentwood's behavior making him look bad have more to do with Brent being the only one of the clones to stay with Thailog rather than any hint that Brent might have a crush on Thailog. Brentwood might spur Lex into examining his own sexuality, but I think the big impetus to Lex realizing who he is will be meeting his future mate.

I do think that it's highly likely that Brentwood will kill Thailog eventually, as it seems to fit with the "Brentwood as Future Tense Lex" theme. It's possible that part of the motivation for Brent doing so is Brent gaining in intelligence and realizing that Thailog has just been using Brent's attraction to him to manipulate Brent. I think another big factor would be Brentwood being too good of a protege, just as Thailog before him learned Xanatos's subliminal lessons on the ways of the world far too well.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Wed, Jan 30, 2008 7:42:39 am EST from 209.6.248.33

DPH - Alberto's question has been answered before, yes, but since his post also contained some general feedback, I'm not certain that I should answer it myself.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Wed, Jan 30, 2008 7:33:33 am EST from 4.244.208.145

<< I imagine Thailog would be amused and dismissive, and intentionally use his knowledge of Brentwood's attraction to manipulate and control him. It wouldn't bother him one bit, and he'd just use it to tighten the leash and hold Brentwood in thrall. He'd indulge him occasionally with a pat on the head or a flattering coo, just to keep stringing him along. >>

Isn't that how Montgomery Burns keeps Waylon Smithers around?

149 days left until The Gathering 2008 in Chicago, Illinois!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"Excellent." - Mr. Burns, "The Simpsons"
posted @ Wed, Jan 30, 2008 7:02:03 am EST from 76.241.146.141

**Ask Greg related**

It appears as though we have another fan of TGC in the name Matthew.

Todd - Since Greg has repeatedly answered the question about the status of Season 2 Volume 2, does that mean you can finally quote his answer for this question:


Alberto Loera writes...

Hi, I've been a fan of Gargoyles since it firstdebuted in 1994. I was thrilled when the first season came out on DVD. I bought it along with Season 2 Volume 1 as soon as they were released. I was disappointed to hear about Volume 2 being shelved. Has the status on that situation changed any? Also, I have all six issues of the comic book that have been released so far and they're outstanding. It's great to have the Gargoyles back again. Thanks for your time and keep up the greatwork.

**End Ask Greg Related**
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Wed, Jan 30, 2008 2:23:37 am EST from 98.20.134.123

I agree with bluewyvern; Thailog would definitely use it to manipulate Brentwood, messing with him and ensuring loyalty. Depending on his, uh, tastes, perhaps he would indulge from time to time if he felt the need, but I ultimately think he'd regard Brentwood as a tool, something to be easily manipulated. But he'll forget that Brentwood is, in his own right, pretty damn scheming. "A tool is only a tool until it does the job by itself."
Meg
posted @ Tue, Jan 29, 2008 11:57:19 pm EST from 138.16.28.211

Hmmm. Well, if he approaches it that way, that would make a betrayal from Brentwood all the more plausible, when Brentwood found out how he actually felt.
Rebel
posted @ Tue, Jan 29, 2008 11:44:58 pm EST from 24.227.200.138

I imagine Thailog would be amused and dismissive, and intentionally use his knowledge of Brentwood's attraction to manipulate and control him. It wouldn't bother him one bit, and he'd just use it to tighten the leash and hold Brentwood in thrall. He'd indulge him occasionally with a pat on the head or a flattering coo, just to keep stringing him along.
bluewyvern
"Attend the petty jealousies and angers that prey upon your heart."
posted @ Tue, Jan 29, 2008 11:37:06 pm EST from 69.112.108.43

I wonder how Thailog is going to handle it if/when he realizes that Brentwood is attracted to him (assuming Brentwood ever actually does become attracted to Thailog)?

I personally have always felt that Brentwood would eventually betray Thailog and kill him, and one day become an even greater danger than Thailog ever was. If Brentwood is attracted to Thailog, but also ends up betraying him...well, that adds a whole new level of drama to things, doesn't it? (Of course, this is all speculation...for all I know, Brentwood may never betray Thailog).
Rebel
posted @ Tue, Jan 29, 2008 11:19:21 pm EST from 24.227.200.138

I have to say that I've had a funny image in my head since we did the radio play at the last Gathering.... of Thailog leading an adoring Brentwood around on a leash. ;P
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth_dragon at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Tue, Jan 29, 2008 11:00:59 pm EST from 24.98.74.35

D. Taina> I saw the same newsbit. Not sure who did the study, but it was just a data correlation thing, and they apparently did find that people with "A" names were slightly more likely, on average, to have better grades. They didn't really have any good suggestions as to why.

Whatever the study means, I'm sure you're aware that your experience, a sample size of one, does not suffice to debunk it. ;) (Congrats on the cum laude, btw.)
bluewyvern
"Attend the petty jealousies and angers that prey upon your heart."
posted @ Tue, Jan 29, 2008 10:46:58 pm EST from 69.112.108.43

D. Taina > Here you go: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/11/071114111138.htm

It appears I may have misinterpreted this research a little. This particular article seems to suggest that it only works if you have a particular fondness for your name or initials. The original article I read was on Yahoo!, and I think it was a little different than this, but I couldn't find it.

bluewyvern >

I agree with your sentiments on homosexuality. Clearly, it's a biological thing, not something that people "choose" as the right-wing republicans would have us believe. But still, I think it makes more sense that it would be determined by the balances of chemicals in the womb/egg, rather than genetics.
Rebel
posted @ Tue, Jan 29, 2008 10:40:57 pm EST from 24.227.200.138

Rebel> And the biblical Goliath was a bully and a coward. I think Greg likes to subvert these things. Azrael might get really good grades, though. ;)

Do we know that Iago has children? I didn't think he had a mate -- he's clearly "impressed" on Desdemona and strikes me as a bitter loner and a loser, but on the other hand I seem to remember some coy Greg comment like "I never said Iago didn't have a mate" or something...so what's up?

If Iago does have children, though, according to the Gargoyles worldview I seriously doubt he or she will have any of his/her father's personalities. Genetics doesn't matter much, sins of the father are non-transferrable, and every life is a new beginning. That's the impression I get from Greg's various attitudes to things, anyway.

Oh, which reminds me -- I think there may be one exception, and that's that I think Greg favors a genetic basis for sexuality, and my guess is that Brentwood is going to turn out gay, too. His attraction to Thailog seems to be more than minion-ly, and Lex seems very concerned that Brentwood's behavior reflects on him. In fact, I predict Brentwood will be the one to first show decided homosexual leanings, which will prompt Lex to wonder what this means about him, and maybe lead to some discoveries about his own feelings.

That's what I see happening, but I wish it weren't so -- based on the latest studies I've seen, it looks more like homosexuality is influenced by conditions during prenatal development and not by genes -- I think the prevailing theory is that it's chemical conditions in the womb, and that the chances for a son being gay increase with every older brother he has, i.e. each son that a mother carries alters the womb chemistry in some way. Since Brentwood was grown in a tank and not hatched naturally, it's unclear that Lex's genes should have any effect on Brentwood's sexuality, in which case we'd have to regard the two of them being gay as just a big coincidence.

So. We'll see what happens.
bluewyvern
"Attend the petty jealousies and angers that prey upon your heart."
posted @ Tue, Jan 29, 2008 10:27:21 pm EST from 69.112.108.43

Rebel: "Also, (forgive me for getting all science-ey) new research has suggested that names actually do play some role in the kind of person you turn out to be. For example, people whose names start with "A" are more likely to do well in school, while people whose names start with "C" or "D" for instance, are more likely to do poorly in school (note: this definitely doesn't apply in all cases). "

You sure about this science? My real name starts with "F" and I graduated Cum Laude. :P Where did you get this research? I'd love to see it.
D. Taina - [dtaina (at) aol (dot) com]
"The story is told -- though who can say if it be true..." - Shari
posted @ Tue, Jan 29, 2008 10:15:36 pm EST from 206.248.96.172

Sorry for the double:

By the way, has anyone ever given any thought to the names of the other Avalon clan members whom we haven't met yet? I'm specifically thinking of Azrael. I have a feeling he or she is going to be evil: "Azrael's name comes from the Angel, or Archangel, of Death, most commonly associated with Islam." I suppose you could argue that Greg wouldn't be that predictable, but then again we have an evil character named Demona and a good character named Angela, so I wouldn't rule it out. Also, (forgive me for getting all science-ey) new research has suggested that names actually do play some role in the kind of person you turn out to be. For example, people whose names start with "A" are more likely to do well in school, while people whose names start with "C" or "D" for instance, are more likely to do poorly in school (note: this definitely doesn't apply in all cases).

Also, I wonder about Iago's biological child that's currently living on Avalon. I wonder if he or she might turn out evil? I doubt it, since evil is generally not genetic in the gargoyles universe, but hey, who knows?
Rebel
posted @ Tue, Jan 29, 2008 9:29:56 pm EST from 24.227.200.138

Spen > I'm beginning to think that I must have radically different notions of rudeness/politeness/condescension than most other people in this CR have. From my point of view, a LOT of people in this CR (not just Greg B.) have spoken to others in ways that I would consider very rude. But then again I'm from Louisiana, and things are different down here.
Rebel
posted @ Tue, Jan 29, 2008 9:16:20 pm EST from 24.227.200.138

the cold trio is left with the existence of having 2 computer modified senses- sight and sound. no touch, no taste, no smell. And the truth of their vision and hearing could be questionable. Desdemona expresed sorrow in cyberspace. 'alas, they have no scent.' to be ignorant of a sense is one thing, but to have something you already experienced taken away is painful. they are bound to this plane in order to hunt down their brother. not much of a (after)life if you ask me.
chris
why do we build castles in the sky?
posted @ Tue, Jan 29, 2008 8:37:29 pm EST from 66.211.201.24

ColdTrio> I'm not sure that I would call their existence a fate worse than death. Certainly they no longer have access to a lot of the experience of being alive, but they still to have some ability to experience the world. ColdStone and ColdFire have a clan who cares about them and will someday welcome them back for good. And they have each other. Love is about more than doing the sky-high mambo after all. I'm sure there have been any number of fanfics about how ColdStone and ColdfFire utilize their new bodies for mutual pleasure, but I think you could write something that was both erotic and beautiful where the two of them just stimulate each other mentally instead of physically. I think all three of them have chosen this existence over death. If any of them really wanted out, a face-first swan dive off of a very tall building without spreading his or her wings could easily accomplish that.

Probably the biggest reason that the ColdTrio isn't going to end up in new living bodies is the huge possible consequences for story. There's apparently a rule at Marvel editorial (and I'm not sure how long it's been in place) that if you as a writer figure out a way to bring a character back from the dead, you have to also write in a plausible reason that the method you used will not work again. Otherwise, the readers start asking "Well why don't they just go do that with Uncle Ben?" or some other still dead character. If it was established that the ColdTrio could be not only resurrected, but moved into new living bodies without serious and dire consequences that would create a substantial moral dilemma and possibly include some drawbacks for the ColdTrio themselves, why would any gargoyle - or possibly any human - need to die ever again?

As to whether any of the three survive to 2198, it's an interesting question. My general feeling is "no" because they aren't mentioned among the cast for "2198". I could see an episode where the main heroes try to track them down and find them living in isolation somewhere, trying to just lead a peaceful life together. Othello/ColdStone in particular has shown some tendencies to just want to ignore the outside world's problems and just be with his love. But between the two of them, they do have a pretty good sense of responsibility, to the point where they'd leave the Manhattan clan for a time in order to insure that ColdSteel doesn't cause any more trouble. So I can't very easily see them not joining the fight when the fate of their species and the whole world is at stake. Heck, if Demona can be convinced to stop trying to wipe out humanity long enough to kick out the space-spawn, ColdStone and ColdFire would definitely be there. Maybe even ColdSteel.

Goliath and Elisa> I always feel that fictional characters in a fictional story sometimes dealing with fictional problems shouldn't have it any easier than real people and should be able to deal with the problems that real people do. It's why I'm really hoping that Lex and his future mate someday have the "do you really want to be with me or is it just that I'm the only other gay gargoyle you've met?" conversation. Because somewhere in the real world, there are two teenagers who - as far as they know - are the only two gay kids in their tiny little town and they're having that very conversation. Same thing with Goliath and Elisa. There are real couples who can't have children on their own. They deal with it. They find solutions. They still manage to lead happy lives in many cases. Goliath and Elisa can do the same. And yes, procreation isn't necessarily the end goal of everyone's relationship. Some of us don't even want to have kids. That's no slight against anyone who does. If you want to have kids because having a family is important to you and the excitement outweighs the terror for you and when you look at it as objectively as possible you think you'd do a good job, more power to you. But having kids on your own, adopting kids, or not having kids at all should all be equally valid options, as well as any alternate routes you can think of.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Tue, Jan 29, 2008 8:04:59 pm EST from 209.6.248.33

Just let me say I agree with Greg B, on all points. O and D need to stay dead, and learn to adjust to the realities of being robotic.

I had a bit of a try accepting Coldstone's "flesh" as stone, and I'm still not all the way up to it, but I can accept the animation contradicting the idea.

I find it a little saddening how many fanfic authors like to try to get around the interspecies issue with Goliath and Elisa through some permanent or temporary transformation for one or the other. The message seems to be that biological reproduction is the be-all, end-all.
Incisivis - [incisivis at hotmail dot com]
"No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream"--Shirley Jackson
posted @ Tue, Jan 29, 2008 7:16:02 pm EST from 216.36.154.204

Coldstone is a zombie. Coldfire is safe, but everyone else better watch their brains. ;)

150 days left until The Gathering 2008 in Chicago, Illinois!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Tue, Jan 29, 2008 7:15:50 pm EST from 76.241.146.141

I've ALWAYS wanted the COLD TRIO to become mortal again. I'D LOVE THAT.

But I agree that would cheapen the massacre. To a degree. But it could also create something wonderful. Being able to save three souls 1,000 years later. From the ashes new life is born. Or something like that.

"You three were once dead... But thanks to Xanatos... magic... and sorcery... you are alive again. You have rejoined your clan. We must remember the dead... but we can rejoice that not everyone perrished that aweful day."

Something like that. if it was done well, I don't think it would cheapen the massacre as much as if it were done terrbily.

Again, I would love to see it.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Tue, Jan 29, 2008 7:14:55 pm EST from 75.156.180.163

When we are talking about putting the Coldtrio in flesh and blood bodies (and I agree this will never happen for dramatic reasons if not story-related ones), you have to remember that Sevarius' skills are useless for this purpose. There is no living DNA left to the Coldtrio. Coldstone contains no living cells. He has been magically reanimated in combination with lifeless cybernetics. So where would Sevarius get the genetic material to make new bodies? And even if he could, how would those souls get into the bodies? Wouldn't the bodies have their own souls? The Clones certainly were not created without souls inherent.
So it is really a silly thing to consider, since to give them their real bodies back you'd need the Phoenix Gate to go back to acquire living cell samples, Sevarius managing to clone and grow those bodies and make them empty of a Soul and Puck or someone transferring the souls into the new bodies. I don't even think any one of these things is plausible, much less all of them.
Their dead, they've been brought back at a price, such is life.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Tue, Jan 29, 2008 6:36:22 pm EST from 24.207.160.51

Rebel : Condescending? Really? I don't think he was. Actually, all things considered, that was downright civil.
Spen
posted @ Tue, Jan 29, 2008 6:14:50 pm EST from 66.43.205.110

That's cause humans are boring...
Who would want to lose their wings?

:) stirring the pot- I agree, fanfics, though they may be an outlet, really destroy some characters. Little logical flow and deeper understanding of the characters as they were created. The Coldtrio really do have an existence worse than death. They just add more tragedy to the mix.

The idea of using Puck as a quick fix is a fairly valid one- how did the trio become separated from Coldstone in the first place? I doubt Puck would have such powers as to give them mortal bodies again, but he's already been used for some 'easy fixes' before
chris
why do we build castles in the sky?
posted @ Tue, Jan 29, 2008 5:10:24 pm EST from 66.211.201.24

Gargoil: LOL yeah, I can see that beog popular in more waus than one.. :)

Helicopter: well, it did look like a flying junk pile :p

Coldtrio: yeah, I prefer them to stay dead .. or undead.. magical or scientific intervention is too much of a cop-out..

and about Puck.. well, look what happened to Demona .

also, it's a pet peeve of mine when I see fanfics about Elisa being temporarily or permanently becoming a gargoyle so either Goliath and Elisa can be "together" or for the sake of having kids.. not once I have heard "oh,I wish Goliath would become human so he and Elisa can hook up" :p
Starlioness
posted @ Tue, Jan 29, 2008 4:15:21 pm EST from 24.18.251.55

Speaking of those three, I wonder if they'll still be around in 2198?
Rebel
posted @ Tue, Jan 29, 2008 4:03:28 pm EST from 24.227.200.138

Greg > Must you be so condescending all the time? I am WELL AWARE of everything you mentioned in your response to me. But just because I know that it won't happen, and I know that it shouldn't happen, and I know that it's "dramatic suicide" (as you aptly termed it), doesn't mean I can't still WANT it to happen, despite all that. You CANNOT control what *I* do and do not want to see happen in Gargoyles.

Haven't you ever heard of wishful thinking?
Rebel
posted @ Tue, Jan 29, 2008 3:57:03 pm EST from 24.227.200.138

Well said, Greg. I agree that the fan boy in me would love for them to have real bodies, but like Greg said in Gargoyles #7: "Some conflicts refuse to stay dead" and for all intents and purposes they should be dead. They have been given the gift of life again, once more, just like the rest of the Manhattan Clan. To paraphrase a quote from Batman Begins: it's not what they are, but what they do that defines them.
Anthony Tini (The Gargoyles Pulse...)
...updated 01/28/08
posted @ Tue, Jan 29, 2008 2:50:33 pm EST from 159.240.11.254

REBEL> <<Personally, I really wish there was some sort of way Coldstone and Coldfire (and yes, maybe Coldsteel too) could regain mortal bodies of some sort. Given Owen/Puck's magical abilities (at least, if he made it into a teaching session for Alex) AND/OR Sevarius' skills, surely new bodies could be created for them. But, I'm pretty sure I read somewhere in the archives that Greg "likes them this way". *sigh*>>

No offense, but that idea is fangirlish (fanboyish too, for that matter). Othello and Desdemona are, for all intents and purposes, dead. They and Iago are the only victims of the massacre that we ever got to know, and it would cheapen the massacre entirely if they were allowed to be flesh and blood.

Death should not be cheapened, the massacre happened. Othello and Desdemona were murdered. They should not magically be able to "get better". In fact, in a way, they are living a life worth than death. Reviving them to flesh and blood is dramatic suicide.

It's sad, it's tragic, and that is the way it should be.

It also brings something else to mind. Everyone keeps trotting out Puck and Sevarius as solutions to dillemnas like Othello and Desdemona or Goliath and Elisa having kids, and I would like to know why. Puck is not a benevolent genie or gift giver, he is a trickster, and he is by no means a friend to the gargoyles. Not an enemy, but not a friend. And Sevarius, um... keep in mind who we are talking about here. Sevarius is a few steps away from being Josef Mengele.

Would you trust Puck or Sevarius with your life? I wouldn't. Why should the gargoyles? And don't throw Xanatos into this, Xanatos chose Owen, not Puck.
Greg Bishansky
"Leonardo was a great Italian, and that was our name originally, Leonardo. But many years ago, when my grandpa came over from Sicily, they changed it at Ellis Island to Leotardo. Because they're stupid, that's why, and jealous. They disrespected our proud Italian heritage and named us after a ballet costume." - Phil Leotardo
posted @ Tue, Jan 29, 2008 2:22:05 pm EST from 75.56.245.4

Matt - "The gargoyles hide the helicopter - permanently." They hid it so well that Kenner was never able to find it to create a toy out of it - as was the intention of putting it in the show in the first place. ^_^
Wingless
posted @ Tue, Jan 29, 2008 1:40:20 pm EST from 99.245.254.123

"Garg-oil"> Aside from the usual excuse that my mind just wandered off to another weird place, it was originally a joke about the LXMs, though I thought more people would get it if I used characters that have actually appeared in the canon. On the other hand, I could actually a product called "Garg-Oil" being marketed for use with the LXMs, Lex's portrait on the label and everything.

ColdTrio> Yeah, I never realized until Greg mentioned it that ColdStone's non-robotic parts are reanimated stone and not flesh. It is mostly an issue of Othello's skin tone being too similar to grey. We wouldn't have this problem if Othello had been green or brown or even just a more obvious blue. While I agree that at least ColdFire has never been drawn quite to my satisfaction (though that may change when she shows up in the comic), I'm fine with the ColdTrio remaining robots plus a frankensteined cyborg for the foreseeable future. Magic in "gargoyles" has never been an easy fix for any problem. ColdStone and ColdFire (and ColdSteel as well, though we don't care so much about him) have separate bodies once more, but their continuing tragedy is that they can never again enjoy true physical contact with one another. If there were some easy solution that would allow them to have real bodies again, then there wouldn't have been the temptation for the two lovers to keep the borrowed bodies or Broadway and Angela. That, more than anything, is why I don't see the ColdTrio getting real flesh and stone bodies anytime soon. And even if they do, I can almost guarantee that it be without a price.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Tue, Jan 29, 2008 11:33:08 am EST from 209.6.248.33

Coldstone> Well, the hair isn't that much of a problem; could be something like a wig, after all. I don't really have an explanation for the eye and the inside of the mouth, though.
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth_dragon at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Tue, Jan 29, 2008 11:24:33 am EST from 199.38.51.134

****Blaise steps sideways out of the air and into the Comment Room.**** Just a quick thought from me.

COLDSTONE'S SKIN> To be fair, in both "Re-Awakening" and "Legion" Othello and Coldstone did have the same skin color...but it changed between episodes. In "Re-Awakening" both were colored a light blue, in "Legion" they were more of a grey. As far as I can see, the different colors (Othello--light blue, Coldstone--grey) only really started to appear in "High Noon." Not only that, but in that ep Coldstone couldn't close his robotic eye and there appeared to be some wrinkle or crack or some other mark around his mouth that gave it a different texture from Othello's (either that, or my memory is playing tricks with me again). Maybe that's why I like the "High Noon" presentation of Coldstone the most--the difference between that body and Othello's "living form" is more noticeable.
As for why his skin is stone and his eye and hair and mouth's interior do not appear to be so...ummm, a glitch in the magic, maybe? Hey, I just watch the show and try to rationalize explanations for myself. Oddly enough, that's why I decided Coldstone's "biological" components were animated stone instead of regular skin long before Greg confirmed it--I rationalized that since Coldstone was made from three different gargoyles and there were no different colors in his skin, they must all still be stone, albeit maleable (the fact that bullets could hit his "skin" and not draw blood was another indication).

Later, all. ****Blaise heads over to the table and dives into a wine jug...literally.****
Blaise
"Build a man a fire, keep him warm for a day. Set a man on fire, keep him warm for the rest of his life."--Terry Pratchett's "Jingo"
posted @ Tue, Jan 29, 2008 11:21:09 am EST from 4.233.38.238

Personally, I really wish there was some sort of way Coldstone and Coldfire (and yes, maybe Coldsteel too) could regain mortal bodies of some sort. Given Owen/Puck's magical abilities (at least, if he made it into a teaching session for Alex) AND/OR Sevarius' skills, surely new bodies could be created for them. But, I'm pretty sure I read somewhere in the archives that Greg "likes them this way". *sigh*
Rebel
posted @ Tue, Jan 29, 2008 11:05:12 am EST from 24.227.200.138

Coldstone's skin> It took a while for me to accept that it was animated stone and not flesh we're seeing. Okay, I'm still not fully accepting as I still think of it as skin. Need to look at some images or re-watch those episodes to see if there is any difference in the coloring between Othello and Coldstone.
Asatira
posted @ Tue, Jan 29, 2008 11:03:19 am EST from 131.204.97.9

@Ed- That site looks really great! I'll be sure to get links up on my videos and around the internet. Well done- it feels great to have a comprehensive and well organized place to send people to for information.

@Matt (Bad Guys/Pendragon theme song): Like Greg B., I've been keeping a heads up and looking around for appropriate material.
Spoonvonstup - [<---Gargoyles Music Video database]
posted @ Tue, Jan 29, 2008 10:43:30 am EST from 192.246.224.236

Coldstone's eye and hair have always been a problem. It would've been cool if the one eye and the hair were stone colored, that would've been more realistic and more visually interesting. However, I can easily see the difference between Othello and Coldstone's skin. Othello is blue, Coldstone is gray. Until I got into the fandom, I never realized that some people saw them as the same color. To my eyes, they are completely different shades.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Tue, Jan 29, 2008 10:36:17 am EST from 24.207.160.51

"Gangster's paradise", of course. *smacks forehead* Yeah, that. Got a little laugh of recognition for that song when I first saw the leica reel. On the other hand, that might not be the reaction we want to go for.

Demonskyre> What on earth prompted that horrible, horrible joke? But now that I'm thinking of the ColdTrio --

It was a recent revelation to me poking through the archives that Coldstone is supposed to be animated stone and not an awakened flesh gargoyle. Greg says that it's hard to tell because Othello's skin tone is very close to the color of stone, but I'm wondering if Greg's color-blindness isn't obscuring the difference somewhat -- to me there was never even any suggestion that Coldstone was supposed to be stone-textured. He's got a normal eye, and (I'm pretty sure) a red mouth, and white hair which is clearly different from the color of his skin...he looks just like the live Othello. Anybody here ever think he was stone?

Incidentally, I bet we've seen the last of the ColdTrio in the flesh with the little "Reunion" flashback...now that they are all housed in their separate bodies, there will be no more psychodrama with the entrapped souls, just their new stone and robot bodies interacting in the real world. It's a shame, they were all so much nicer to look at while they were alive. (It's a problem of the Garg universe for me -- I'm really not into robots!) Barring further flashbacks, we I don't think we'll be seeing their gargoyle selves again until "Dark Ages" hits the shelves... (A girl can dream...)
bluewyvern
"Attend the petty jealousies and angers that prey upon your heart."
posted @ Tue, Jan 29, 2008 10:32:45 am EST from 69.112.108.43

ED > I just realized I did something wrong at some point when I was resizing TheTigress' banner. I saved it as a PNG and everything, but for some reason, it added a white background. If someone is posting on a forum without white backgrounds, this could be a problem.
Rebel
posted @ Tue, Jan 29, 2008 10:31:58 am EST from 24.227.200.138

TDiGUH> Ha! Greg got a laugh out of me today: "The gargoyles hide the helicopter - permanently." He never did like that helicopter, lol.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Tue, Jan 29, 2008 9:45:35 am EST from 24.207.160.51

Meg> Well, it's not that they altogether don't carry them. More that they're ordering fewer independent titles in smaller quantities than they used to. Comics probably aren't Newbury's biggest profit source anyways and more mainstream titles probably sell more reliably. Plus it's long been a strategy of the Big Two especially to put out more and more books often centered around one character or tied in through a giant crossover, forcing comic shops to devote more of their already limited shelf space to that publisher and squeezing the available space for independent titles.

Todd> But I think "Camelot" from "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" is definitely still on the table. ;)

bluewyvern> "Gangster's Paradise"? That could work. Or I guess you could track down the song from "W.I.T.C.H." that's used in the comic, though I personally didn't think it was a particularly good fit.

Also, I have a joke:

Q: What do you use to keep ColdSteel and ColdFire in working condition?
A: Garg-oil!

::dodges rotting produce as she leaves::
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Tue, Jan 29, 2008 7:53:02 am EST from 209.6.248.33

Greg B.> For a Bad Guys video ad, you could use the same music the leica reel used -- the instrumental version of (darn, what is the name of that song? The "Dangerous Minds" song...I used to love that song and now I can't remember the name).
bluewyvern
"Attend the petty jealousies and angers that prey upon your heart."
posted @ Tue, Jan 29, 2008 12:31:42 am EST from 69.112.108.43

I thought "A Bronx Tail" was just a TGS episode, not a broadway play.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Mon, Jan 28, 2008 11:54:57 pm EST from 98.20.134.123

I really like "The Ring in Return" and "Keeping the Blade" instrumentals from the Coheed and Cambria albums "In Keeping Secrets of Silent Earth: 3" & "Good Apollo, I'm Burning Star IV, Volume One: From Fear Through the Eyes of Madness" respectively. They are almost the same song, but are slightly different in presentation and tempo.
Anthony Tini (The Gargoyles Pulse...)
...updated 01/28/08
posted @ Mon, Jan 28, 2008 10:33:53 pm EST from 70.15.84.29

Demonskrye>Bummer on Newbury not carrying independents. You'd think that they of all people would carry independent titles...although I guess they've expanded into enough other mediums that they don't need to. I'm just glad the one near me still has them. It actually gives me hope...it's a pretty major store, but every time I go to get one of the issues, they're always like "ooh, last copy." Which makes me happy (and also practically run down to the store so I can grab mine--usually they're good about holding it for me if I explain I'll be right down, though).

Re: gay tenth-century gargoyles, that's interesting. It does sound as if it was rather like it is now...a case-by-case basis. I suppose someone like Desdemona would be pretty accepting, while I can see Othello being less so. Interesting food for thought, although I can't see any of the current Manhattan Clan having a long-term problem with it.
Meg
posted @ Mon, Jan 28, 2008 10:10:40 pm EST from 138.16.28.211

I suppose that the title song from "Camelot" is entirely out of the question.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Mon, Jan 28, 2008 9:29:43 pm EST from 4.244.211.51

BTW I'm supposed to be practicing CSS for school, so if I can be any assistance, let me know
Valerie - [vaddoniz at gmail dot com]
I need... a 'de-tect-ive.'
posted @ Mon, Jan 28, 2008 8:28:52 pm EST from 24.187.32.2

Greg B: What sort of song are you looking for for Pendragon? I might be able to be of assistance.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Perhaps it is because I feel comfortable manipulating humans that I desire to save them. My feelings and thoughts constantly migrate to binary opposites." -Durandal
posted @ Mon, Jan 28, 2008 8:24:23 pm EST from 71.62.198.251

Meg> Yeah, I checked the website just to be sure and Newbury is only in the New England states. Unfortunately, they seem to be carrying fewer and fewer independent comics, at least at the ones near me. I'm a Massachusetts native myself and, except for going to college in Georgia, a lifelong resident.

As for what Greg actually said:

"Clarification...

Someone asked me whether or not gargoyles would accept a homosexual gargoyle into the clan with open arms.

My response:

"The world isn't perfect. I think generally they would be tolerant. (Tolerant, in my book, is unsatisfactory.) But generalities do not
define individual reactions to individual revelations. Open arms would exist in many cases. "

My brother read that and wrote:

"I think writing "Tolerant is unsatisfactory"could be interpreted as you saying that they should not be tolerant, that you are against
tolerance rather than tolerance being insufficient."

So, just to be clear, I was saying that I find tolerance insufficient. Certainly, tolerance is better than hostility or neutrality, but I'd prefer acceptance."

I see your point, but I think it's somewhat dangerous to assume that gargoyles had this perfect society and everything was wonderful and anything negative was due to human influence. They are mortal and flawed, which is what makes them interesting as characters. It sounds like the situation wasn't quite as bad as I had remembered it. (For some reason, I can't seem to find the original post.) But still, it sounds like the norm was less than complete acceptance.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Mon, Jan 28, 2008 8:07:34 pm EST from 209.6.248.33

Ed: Nice job with the comic book site! If you were thinking about background colors or textures, I found a site with *tons* of free backgrounds for use: http://www.grsites.com/textures/
Bagpipes5K - [bagpipes5k2 at sbcglobal dot net]
posted @ Mon, Jan 28, 2008 7:04:06 pm EST from 68.75.19.125

I hope that your error wasn't prophetic, Matt - we've had enough delays on the comic books as it is. I'm afraid this might be the main reason for the dropping sales.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Mon, Jan 28, 2008 7:02:05 pm EST from 4.245.23.117

Matt> At some point, I might. If I can find the right song to use. There is one floating around out there which is okay, also one for "Pendragon", but the latter has a heavy metal song to it which I think is completely inappropriate.
Greg Bishansky
"Leonardo was a great Italian, and that was our name originally, Leonardo. But many years ago, when my grandpa came over from Sicily, they changed it at Ellis Island to Leotardo. Because they're stupid, that's why, and jealous. They disrespected our proud Italian heritage and named us after a ballet costume." - Phil Leotardo
posted @ Mon, Jan 28, 2008 6:48:49 pm EST from 75.56.245.4

Ed> That was an error on my part. I've corrected it, thanks for catching it. Of course, with SLG, you never know, right? lol, lets hope my error wasn't prophetic.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Mon, Jan 28, 2008 6:46:23 pm EST from 24.207.160.51

Matt: Out of interest, why did you edit the date of BAD GUYS #2 on the wiki to "planned for March"? Obviously January is now incorrect, but it's the "March" rather than "February" that has me curious...
Ed Reynolds
posted @ Mon, Jan 28, 2008 6:31:51 pm EST from 213.187.39.61

Greg B, et al.> Is there any plan to create the first "Bad Guys" tv intro as you've done with Season 3?
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Mon, Jan 28, 2008 6:30:03 pm EST from 24.207.160.51

Meg> I would agree entirely, although there isn't much mention that I can remember of human religion and its practices and beliefs, but I would second that point.
Valerie - [vaddoniz at gmail dot com]
I need... a 'de-tect-ive.'
posted @ Mon, Jan 28, 2008 5:51:20 pm EST from 24.187.32.2

Demonskrye>re: tenth-century gay gargoyle unions "tolerated, but not celebrated"

Is that strictly Gargoyle attitude, though, or is it human-influenced? I don't think I've ever read what Greg has to say on the matter (although I'd definitely be interested to if anyone can remember where it is), but to me it seems logical to assume that, in an attempt to NOT antagonize/weird out their new human allies, the Wyvern clan gargs might try to keep any gay gargoyle unions on the DL. All they would need would be one priest to get his nose out of joint over it, and start telling the castle inhabitants that the gargoyles are demons and need to be killed.... So I wonder if the "tolerated but not celebrated" thing had more to do with the times than the actual clan attitude.
Meg
posted @ Mon, Jan 28, 2008 5:44:09 pm EST from 138.16.28.211

No worries, I actually spoke with my ex-boyfriend's father about the world of comics (he has over 30,000 and is OBVIOUSLY a wealth of information), he's going to broker a deal with me and be my "supplier." heh.

And I'm so happy to be back in this fandom! If you look on the Unanswered Questions I'm the meldrmataic 24-rear old :)
Valerie - [vaddoniz at gmail dot com]
I need... a 'de-tect-ive.'
posted @ Mon, Jan 28, 2008 5:37:48 pm EST from 24.187.32.2

Lex reproducing > I doubt most of those who are close to him would mind that he's not producing an egg. But, I bet there are gargoyles out there who might give him a hard time about it.

But, who is to say that Lex's genes won't somehow be passed on to future gargoyles anyway, even if Lex himself doesn't breed? I think Greg has indicated that Brentwood might share Lex's orientation, but who is to say that the creatures that Thailog and Sevarius concoct with their new DNA samples will necessarily be gay? If a new "clone" is a concoction of DNA from several Manhattan clan members, Lex included, then his DNA will be passed on...assuming some of the clones survive and later breed.
Rebel
posted @ Mon, Jan 28, 2008 5:24:38 pm EST from 24.227.200.138

Thanks for the site feedback, guys.

bluewyvern: The Goliath/Elisa relationship seemed like an aspect of the comic that's pretty easy to 'get' even for a complete newbie (and it's quite a big theme). I agree the intro page synopses probably don't do justice to Goliath and Elisa though. I'll have a look at that at some point.

Great to have another regular around here, Valerie! Amazon... well, Bad Guys has been out longer than #7 and that's not up either, so I'm not sure I'd rely on them.

Rebel: I hadn't planned to include a background actually. As you say, in theory they look classy, but I'm not confident enough in my design skills to pull that off. I was going to do a logo although I'm getting quite used to the text now.

On Lex: The issue isn't just whether Lex can/should father a child, but whether there's a mother to lay the egg. Assuming there is, these days I wouldn't have thought you'd need a Sevarius figure to adapt IVF techniques for gargoyles (especially with Lex's forward-thinking nature and Xanatos's resources). And since gargoyles don't generally acknowledge their biological parentage, this situation would be free of many of the emotional complications attendant on humans in this situation. Lexington would be father to the whole rookery.

* * *

SITE:

Few changes/additions since my last post.

ORDER PAGE: As per Demonskrye's excellent suggestion. Is there any other info Midtown customers think should be listed; and are there any other companies people here routinely use and can vouch for?

RESOURCES PAGE: It would be good to get a selection of sigs and AIM icons and banners and... whatever else people can think of and design. I've already added the design by TheTigress. Please, artistically inclined people, design away...

MAILING LIST: Some people already joined. :)

Also a link to Greg B's title sequence, a contact page, a favicon (the little logo on the location bar), a placeholder letters page, new images on the intro/refresher pages (apologies/thanks to the wiki capper for many of these). Be warned the #7 image is spoilery (but my thinking is it's a dramatic hook for people who require an intro such as this).

I was thinking it might be good to include some actual comic preview pages, especially for people who are new to the world. It might fix it better in people's minds. I'm not sure what the rules on this are though. Aren't five pages usually circulated to the press as standard? I know there was a 6-page preview of #1 before it launched and pages from other issues are dotted around the web.
Ed Reynolds
posted @ Mon, Jan 28, 2008 3:51:40 pm EST from 213.187.39.61

Ed - good start with the website
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Mon, Jan 28, 2008 3:11:41 pm EST from 98.20.134.123

Demonskrye>Indeed, I am New England born and bred. :) It's funny you say that, though, I had no idea Newbury was a predominantly Northeast company. I thought it was more nationwide....
Meg
posted @ Mon, Jan 28, 2008 3:00:02 pm EST from 128.148.41.71

No new Garg comics for 2/6.
Anthony Tini (The Gargoyles Pulse...)
...updated 01/28/08
posted @ Mon, Jan 28, 2008 2:23:07 pm EST from 159.240.11.254

Ed> Very nice job on the site. One thing I think should be added soon is links to dedicated comics ordering sites, since ordering from SLG and especially Amazon can be a long and frustrating process and sites that are set up specifically for the purpose of selling comics are a better option. I would start with midtowncomics.com, which Meg mentioned.

Meg> Might I assume that you're somewhere in New England too, as Newbury Comics doesn't tend to stray from there?

Lez's "Reproductive Duties"> I agree it's a bit tyrannical for anyone to say that Lex has a duty to his species to father a child. But I can definitely see people thinking it and even expressing that opinion, more if they don't really know Lex. I don't think anyone in his own clan is going to give him much trouble; much like they did with Elisa and Goliath, they'll see his relationship with his partner develop and come to understand that it's the right thing for him. Accepting a gay gargoyle couple can't be any harder for the clan than accepting an interspecies couple. The clan may eventually start having concerns about how they're going to keep their population growing, but I doubt they'll put any pressure on wither Lex or Goliath to do something on that front. But gargoyles from other clans who may not know Lex well but are aware that he's in a committed gay relationship might not think well of it. And Lex and his partner may feel some guilt about not being available to father eggs. We don't think its a big deal, but we have the benefit of foresight and we know that the gargoyle species will survive and grow. No one in the "Gargoyles" universe knows this. Even if the Manhattan clan was aware of all the current surviving clans, the gargoyle species is still spread out and pretty much endangered. It's a point in time where the loss of six potential eggs could be a big deal.

Incidentally, I recall that Greg said that gay gargoyle couples (I think this was during the 10th century in Scotland) were "tolerated, but not celebrated". So they wouldn't be kicked out of the clan, but they might not be given a mating ceremony. It's possible that the reasons for this were similar to the reasons why some gargoyles may not approve of Lex's relationship today. Though the gargoyle species was a larger population at the time, they were still a warrior race and had a high mortality rate for it. Within an individual clan, it might have been frowned upon for two gargoyles to choose to enter into a relationship with no possibility of producing eggs and helping to keep the clan alive for future generations.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Mon, Jan 28, 2008 12:12:09 pm EST from 209.6.248.33

By the way, did anyone take a look at the banner that TheTigress posted last week? I thought it was really good...it was a little big, so I just resized it so that its height was 150 pixels, which I think is small enough for most forum signatures. Then I uploaded it to my little corner of the internet so I could use it. Right now, I'm using it as a forum signature in another forum I visit, and when people click on it, it leads to Ed's new website. If anyone wants to use it, here ya go:

http://tribe.ulm.edu/~fornearl/gargoylesnobg2.png

It's now small enough to be used in most forums, but the words are still plenty big enough to read and it's very eye-catching.
Rebel
posted @ Mon, Jan 28, 2008 12:06:10 pm EST from 24.227.200.138

SPEN> Honestly, I'd say TGC is lucky to have a section at all. I'm sure eventually it will happen, but working on the TGC section is currently low on my list of concerns.

::Checks the List Of Concerns::

Yup, there it is. Right below 'Are we eating too much rice as a people."

;)
Greg Bishansky
"Leonardo was a great Italian, and that was our name originally, Leonardo. But many years ago, when my grandpa came over from Sicily, they changed it at Ellis Island to Leotardo. Because they're stupid, that's why, and jealous. They disrespected our proud Italian heritage and named us after a ballet costume." - Phil Leotardo
posted @ Mon, Jan 28, 2008 3:44:47 am EST from 75.56.245.4

SPEN> Honestly, I'd say TGC is lucky to have a section at all. I'm sure eventually it will happen, but working on the TGC section is currently low on my list of concerns.

::Checks the List Of Concerns::

Yup, there it is. Right below 'Are we eating too much rice as a people."

;)
Greg Bishansky
"Leonardo was a great Italian, and that was our name originally, Leonardo. But many years ago, when my grandpa came over from Sicily, they changed it at Ellis Island to Leotardo. Because they're stupid, that's why, and jealous. They disrespected our proud Italian heritage and named us after a ballet costume." - Phil Leotardo
posted @ Mon, Jan 28, 2008 3:44:46 am EST from 75.56.245.4

I was just thinking (unusual for me, I know.) On the GargWiki, why is it that the TGC episodes don't have the title screenshot on their pages? Is there any chance of anyone correcting this?
Spen
posted @ Mon, Jan 28, 2008 3:20:49 am EST from 66.43.205.110

10!
Siren
Don't knock on Death's door. Ring his doorbell and run, he hates that.
posted @ Mon, Jan 28, 2008 12:57:30 am EST from 68.202.76.113

9th!!
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Mon, Jan 28, 2008 12:40:15 am EST from 98.20.134.123

Eighth!!
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Mon, Jan 28, 2008 12:38:42 am EST from 157.242.208.36

seventh!
Purplegoldfish - [Skydragonn at aol dot com]
posted @ Mon, Jan 28, 2008 12:23:25 am EST from 205.188.117.134

Sixth!
bluewyvern
"Attend the petty jealousies and angers that prey upon your heart."
posted @ Mon, Jan 28, 2008 12:21:05 am EST from 69.112.108.43

5th!
Rebel
posted @ Mon, Jan 28, 2008 12:07:40 am EST from 24.227.200.138

Okay, fourth!
Spen
posted @ Mon, Jan 28, 2008 12:01:56 am EST from 66.43.205.110

Third!
Spen
posted @ Mon, Jan 28, 2008 12:01:34 am EST from 66.43.205.110

Third~!
The One Known As Mochi - [shogi dot keima dot 08 at gmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>-.-)> Tired...
posted @ Mon, Jan 28, 2008 12:01:20 am EST from 72.199.225.9

ok, second
Wingless
posted @ Mon, Jan 28, 2008 12:00:47 am EST from 99.245.254.123

First-mebbie?
Wingless
posted @ Mon, Jan 28, 2008 12:00:21 am EST from 99.245.254.123

First!
The Gargoyles Pulse (Anthony Tini)
...updated Mondays afternoon/early evening
posted @ Mon, Jan 28, 2008 12:00:06 am EST from 70.15.84.29