Comment Room Archive : Gargoyles : Station Eight

Demonskrye: I don't know, I don't think every villain needs to be unique. In any Rogues Gallery, there are some villains with depth, and then there are others who are just good at being bad (and some who are both). Of course, we haven't seen what Greg is doing yet. He did surprise me with his treatment of Electro. I'm just saying that for every Green Goblin, there's also a Carnage.

But you never know. I might not be saying that after next Saturday. We'll see. It's just that in the Gargoyles universe, we have villains like Xanatos and Demona, and we also have villains like Jackal and Hyena.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Customs, morals... is there a difference? Here, by the grace of God and an inside straight, we have a personality untouched by the psychotic taboos of our tribe - and YOU want to turn him into a copy of every fourth-rate conformist in this frightened land! Why not go the whole hog? Get him a briefcase." -Jubal Harshaw ("Stranger In a Strange Land")
posted @ Sun, Mar 16, 2008 6:09:57 pm EDT from 71.62.198.251

HARVESTER - Actually, that was probably a case of "The Spectacular Spider-Man" and "Gargoyles" borrowing from a common source.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Sun, Mar 16, 2008 6:08:12 pm EDT from 4.244.208.210

Greg B> I think it's mainly that the name makes Shocker sound like another electric guy. His promarily yellow and padded costume doesn't help matters either. Shocker has just always struck me as a less well defined member of Spidey's rogues gallery in both concept and appearance. I'll be interested to see how Greg gives him some uniqueness.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Sun, Mar 16, 2008 4:26:41 pm EDT from 209.6.248.33

Speaking of SSM, did anyone else spot another possible Gargoyles reference?

"Can you say halitosis? I knew that you could."
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Customs, morals... is there a difference? Here, by the grace of God and an inside straight, we have a personality untouched by the psychotic taboos of our tribe - and YOU want to turn him into a copy of every fourth-rate conformist in this frightened land! Why not go the whole hog? Get him a briefcase." -Jubal Harshaw ("Stranger In a Strange Land")
posted @ Sun, Mar 16, 2008 4:05:28 pm EDT from 71.62.198.251

Spike > Thanks for the notice. I'm now scrambling to see if anyone can make it.

DPH > It's still impossible to determine without having a known correlation of a date in the outside world to the time of day on Avalon or knowing what the day/night cycle is like on Avalon.
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"You can't fool me, there ain't no sanity clause." - Chico Marx
posted @ Sun, Mar 16, 2008 2:52:28 pm EDT from 76.205.90.236

Spike is hosting an art chat in Station Eight TONIGHT Sunday, March 16th from 7pm EDT to 9pm EDT. Guests will be from the SciFiFantasyHorrorSpaceArt_Shows, a Yahoo group of artists, art directors, and publishers. We will be talking about art shows, conventions, what the fans are buying, and what's not selling. Even if you're not an artist, you're welcome to drop by.

Attn: Gathering 2008 Staff>> I sent an invite to your art show addy. I have the art show director from WindyCon in Chicago coming so it may be a good opportunity for the Gathering to do some networking. Thanks!
Spike
posted @ Sun, Mar 16, 2008 2:33:18 pm EDT from 75.17.230.53

Patrick - I was thinking about the day that Fall Equinox falls on not the exact moment.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Sun, Mar 16, 2008 2:24:07 pm EDT from 98.20.201.174

DPH > That's impossible to determine without knowing the exact moment in time as reckoned on Earth that the time-dilated clock started ticking for Avalon.

103 days left until The Gathering 2008 in Chicago, Illinois!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"You can't fool me, there ain't no sanity clause." - Chico Marx
posted @ Sun, Mar 16, 2008 1:58:55 pm EDT from 76.205.90.236

Got a dumb question: Has anybody worked if the fall equinox in 2008 in the real world would be during the daytime or nighttime on Avalon?
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Sun, Mar 16, 2008 1:29:42 pm EDT from 98.20.201.174

Just stopping by to share my thoughts on the latest episode of Spectacular Spider-Man.

SPOILERS AHOY!

Survival of The Fittest.
I've always thought one of the best aspects of the Spidey mythos was the fantastic cast of supporting characters and this episode just proves it.

I absolutely love this version of Gwen, standing up to Flash, helping save Dr. Connors she's pretty heroic in her own right. Speaking of heroic, how about Eddie Brock using himself as lizard bait. It's going to be interesting to see what turns him into a Spidey hating psycho later in the series.

The Connors family are also noteworthy. In most other versions I've seen Martha and Billy don't seem to be much more then appendages to Curt's character but they really shine. I particularly liked Billy's understated yet heartbreaking portrayal of a traumatized kid desperately afraid of losing his dad.

But the real star of the show is of course everybody's favorite wall-crawler. A classic Spidey touch is to see Peter do the right thing despite being vilified for it. It's one thing to save the day expecting a medal or a parade afterwards, it's quite another to save the day knowing your going to get spat on for your trouble. That's something else Spidey has in common with certain other defenders of the night.
Algernon
"You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with 'til you understand who's in ruttin' command here" -Jayne Cobb
posted @ Sun, Mar 16, 2008 9:56:50 am EDT from 159.134.96.7

because we are all overly geeky in here. I thought you might all like this movie trailer just released for the new batman movie.

http://atasteforthetheatrical.com/deathtrap/default.htm

I thought it was good though cause it makes it so much darker like batman is. Though i dont like the way they did the jokers make up. Isnt he soposed to have a permanant smile on his face?
Shara - [Jeanie54_2000 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Sun, Mar 16, 2008 2:59:54 am EDT from 76.170.156.182

Demonskrye> <<Next week: Shocker, and hopefully a solution to the problem of differentiating Shock from Electro.>>

Why would anyone confuse them? Electro is a guy who received electric powers from a freak accident. Shocker is a guy who wears gauntlets on his hands and uses sound vibrations and shock waves as a weapon.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Is that not the perfect visual image of life and death? A fish flapping on the carpet, and a fish not flapping on the carpet." - Bill AKA Snake Charmer
posted @ Sun, Mar 16, 2008 1:59:56 am EDT from 75.56.245.4

"WHACKOS?! WICKED!!"
Rebel
posted @ Sun, Mar 16, 2008 1:04:01 am EDT from 216.45.251.211

The One Known As Mochi>very kewl. My email is the one listed below there. Same here they usually list all that the last week of june. I'll most likely be there fri and sat and sunday. Sunday is kids day so it might be fun to advertize the show to the kids. if your really interested ill email you and we can meet up.
Shara - [Jeanie54_2000 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Sun, Mar 16, 2008 12:08:02 am EDT from 76.170.156.182

Todd - thanks. I would like to have it deleted. I need to retype it and resubmit it when/after I'm both wide awake and have triple checked my math.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Sat, Mar 15, 2008 11:22:19 pm EDT from 98.20.201.174

"Help"> There are currently no plans to bring the "Gargoyles" TV show back, but as you seem to have already discovered, the story is being continued in the "Gargoyles" comic from Slave Labor Graphics. If you want to know what happens next, pick up issue #8, which should be out this Wednesday.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Sat, Mar 15, 2008 8:19:18 pm EDT from 209.6.248.33

please tell me what happens after the show of gargoyles i need to know. also is the show coming back because i love it and new episode rock ( from the comics) please tell me.
help - [srry at hotmail dot com]
help
posted @ Sat, Mar 15, 2008 7:14:43 pm EDT from 76.66.6.229

DPH - Fortunately, I haven't gotten to your most recent question yet, so I'd still be able to delete it.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Sat, Mar 15, 2008 7:01:04 pm EDT from 4.245.21.26

Todd - Is it to delete to request my latest question to Ask Greg be deleted? I realized that I made a mistake in my math. 6 months Avalon time = 144 months/12 years real world time not 192 months/16 years.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Sat, Mar 15, 2008 6:18:24 pm EDT from 98.20.201.174

* SPOILERS *

I enjoyed this episode also. It certainly captured Peter's usual tendency to get into trouble - he finally snaps a good action shot of himself as Spidey, only to have everyone else think that he'd deserted them in a crisis to go taking photographs!

One of my favorite moments: Spidey sneaking up on the Lizard, ready to (as he says) use the element of surprise - and then his cell phone goes off! (I like the touch of his cell phone's tone being "Itsy Bitsy Spider".)

Keep up the good work, Greg Weisman and everyone else who's on the production team.

* SPOILERS END *
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Sat, Mar 15, 2008 6:16:35 pm EDT from 4.245.21.26

Yeah I guess I should be more careful, just didn't expect it.

******** TSS-M Spoiler ********

The ending of the episode made it for me with the picture frame.
The Gargoyles Pulse (Anthony Tini)
...updated Mondays afternoon/early evening
posted @ Sat, Mar 15, 2008 5:44:24 pm EDT from 70.15.84.29

Shara >> Yes, I'm going to Comic Con! I already purchased my pass! As for helping out, I'm waiting for the Comic Con staff to update their site with the 2008 programming info so I can plan for some panels. Other than that, I should be able to help! :D
The One Known As Mochi - [shogi dot keima dot 08 at gmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>**)> Too much sleep...
posted @ Sat, Mar 15, 2008 5:42:29 pm EDT from 72.199.225.9

As a general rule, I think it's a good idea to avoid the comment room (or at least, be very leery of it) anytime something new comes out that you haven't seen or gotten your hands on yet, whether it's an issue of a comic or an episode of a TV show. After all, people sometimes forget to put spoiler warnings before their comments. I've certainly forgotten before.

Speaking of Spectacular Spider-man, anyone know where I can watch it? I missed it this morning and I want to see it. I've been checking youtube regularly but still no one has uploaded it.
Rebel
posted @ Sat, Mar 15, 2008 5:34:52 pm EDT from 216.45.251.211

Or, you can pay attention to the spoiler warnings ;)
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Is that not the perfect visual image of life and death? A fish flapping on the carpet, and a fish not flapping on the carpet." - Bill AKA Snake Charmer
posted @ Sat, Mar 15, 2008 4:36:43 pm EDT from 75.56.245.4

Great, I come to the Gargoyles CR and get spoiled by a TSS-M episode I didn't even watch yet. Maybe Gorebash can create a s8.org/tss-m CR, hmm? That would be nice.
(The Gargoyles Pulse - updated Mondays)
Anthony Tini
posted @ Sat, Mar 15, 2008 4:28:38 pm EDT from 70.15.84.29

As for names being used frequently, all three Markos made their debut in the 60s.
Antiyonder
posted @ Sat, Mar 15, 2008 3:32:19 pm EDT from 72.87.13.178

Antiyonder here. Yep, library computer.

Algernon> Then I would recommend The Amazing Spider-Girl. Defalco's been doing well with having a story arc and still maintaining the single issue stories. Plus, that particular continuum is devoid of any OMD's flaws.
Anonymous
posted @ Sat, Mar 15, 2008 2:51:33 pm EDT from 66.225.14.190

Just wanted to say that yesterday I wore my HT Gargoyles shirt and after a day of "Gargoyles! Cool..." I met someone who turned out to be a BIG fan, and she was excited enough to want to know about the DVDs and the comics as well as this site (she knew nothing about any of it, last time she saw the show was during the original airing of the World Tour).

One lost & found fan at a time . . . :)

Now, on to the Spectacular Spiderman (man, that is ONE catchy tune!)

***Possible Spoilers***

Great episode -- really love Spidey's wit throughout his action scenes. "Hey! Climbing walls in MY SCHtick! If you start spinning webs, I'm going to sue!!"

Loved the Mister Rogers line -- really reminded me of when Xanatos said it -- not because of any similarity between scenes or characters, just because Greg worked on both shows, honestly.

I was also reminded about Gargoyles when the Lizard and Spidey crashed through the subway roof.

Animation was amazing -- you really get the feeling on how fast their fighting is.

I really loved how Spidey mended his own hand in webbing -- don't know if he's ever done that in any other version of Spiderman, but its the first time I saw saw it, and I thought it was cool.

Even though the ending definitely touched upon the whole "with great power comes great responsibility" I really liked how it also made it clear that "great power also comes with great consequences."

Spec-TA-CU-LAR Spec-TA-CU-LAR Spi-der-man, Spec-TA-CU-LAR Spec-TA-CU-LAR Spi-der-man . . . . :P
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Sat, Mar 15, 2008 2:42:19 pm EDT from 157.242.212.226

Algernon> Check out Bendis' Daredevil run. Some really great stuff there.

Yeah, this was another solid episode. The Lizard was always one of my favorites, and this was well done. Easily tops the other animated Lizard incarnations. The fight scenes were great, and Peter's friendship with Eddie is beginning to strain.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Is that not the perfect visual image of life and death? A fish flapping on the carpet, and a fish not flapping on the carpet." - Bill AKA Snake Charmer
posted @ Sat, Mar 15, 2008 2:18:11 pm EDT from 75.56.245.4

Antiyonder> I used to be big into Spidey comics but like Greg B I just couldn't take any more after OMD. I liked Ultimate Spider-Man at first but as time went on I got annoyed with Bendis' "lets take a two part story and stretch it over fifteen issues" style of writing. Though I must admit I'm a big fan of the classic Avengers so I'm seriously biased against Everything Bendis does.

Todd> The Marvel universe is freaking huge, having accumulated literally thousands of characters over it's forty something years of history. Given that it's not surprising that names sometimes get reused every now and then. As far as I know Juggernaut and Sandman are not related. I'm sure we all know people in real life who have similar names without being related.

P.S. now that I think about it wasn't it revealed that Flint Marko was just an aliase the Sandman used and not his actual real name?
Algernon
"You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with 'til you understand who's in ruttin' command here" -Jayne Cobb
posted @ Sat, Mar 15, 2008 1:38:39 pm EDT from 159.134.96.7

Today's SSM>

SPOILER SENSE TINGLING

I see London, I see France, I see Spidey's underpants!

On a slightly more mature note, another very solid episode. The transformation on the Lizard is really fun. Given that this is Peter's life in high school, I was pleased to see an episode that focused more on how hard life can be on him, especially with the double identity. He's lost his internship, his friends think he was snapping photos during a crisis, his financial woes may well not be over, jocks like to throw water balloons at him, and he can't dodge them because it risks calling attention to his enhanced agility and sense of danger. Episode three and he's already considering the old chuck the costume in the trash can routine. And Uncle Ben's absence, though still very much felt, still hasn't been explained (though you'd have to be pretty out of the loop not to know the story there). I hope Greg does another credits rundown and spares me the trouble of trying to sort out who was voicing Billy. I really enjoyed the performance. I thought they were going to go the route of the 90s Spider-Man cartoon where remembering his son is the key to taming the Lizard. But i think it's a lot more poignant to have Peter actually tell Billy that his dad will love him no matter what and then show that it isn't actually the case when Dr. Connors' brain is too far gone into reptile land.

Next week: Shocker, and hopefully a solution to the problem of differentiating Shock from Electro.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Sat, Mar 15, 2008 1:27:32 pm EDT from 209.6.248.33

What it comes down to is that the Avalon clan is going to contribute little to the global population growth of gargoyles as long as they stay on Avalon. At 20 years between egg hatchings, gargoyle reproductive cycles are abysmally slow to begin with. Because 20 years on Avalon is 480 years in the outside world, the most the Avalon clan can contribute between now and 2198 if they stay on Avalon is one new generation. If that generation hatched tomorrow (2008), they hatchings in it would be only about 8 Avalon years old by the time calendars in the outside world reach 2198.

104 days left until The Gathering 2008 in Chicago, Illinois!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"If at first you don't succeed, skydiving isn't the sport for you." - Steven Wright
posted @ Sat, Mar 15, 2008 12:36:34 pm EDT from 76.205.90.236

My username is carl006. And according to the timeline on gargwiki, the Avalon clan hatched in 1058.
Adam - [carl006_1999 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Sat, Mar 15, 2008 10:31:22 am EDT from 24.31.23.223

Adam> What is your username at GargWiki? Perhaps we can convince a bureaucrat to give you editing priveleges.

Incidentally, for others that do not know, it is not possible for new users to edit GargWiki. It is locked so that only admins can contribute. We might be able to encourage more new users like Adam if this was no longer the case.
Supermorff
posted @ Sat, Mar 15, 2008 8:30:59 am EDT from 82.27.226.6

Adam - A couple of problems I see. <and 1058 being the year that the Avalon clan hatched.> See http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=1687 . The Avalon clan didn't hatch until 1078 as indicated on the timeline. <When I do the math for the beasts on Avalon, you take 40x24=960+1058 and you get 2018.> 2008 is the 1st year for anybody in the Avalon clan to be able to lay an egg - http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=1699 . < that would work for the beasts first egg to hatch in 2038> Next problem is calculating how long until that egg hatches. Remember those eggs take 10 years to hatch. So if those eggs were laid on Avalon in 2018, then by 2038, those eggs will be a measily 10 months old. Sorry, those eggs can't hatch after a measily 10 months. Let's go back to 2008 when the eggs are laid. They need 10 years to hatch. If those eggs stay on Avalon, it'll 240 years in the real world before they can hatch. That places any eggs laid on Avalon in 2008 and don't leave Avalon hatching a year beyond the current limitations of the time line.

In fact, that brings up some very interesting points.
1st point) If Ophelia becomes pregnant in 2008 on Avalon, it'll take her 6 months before she lay an egg. If she stays on Avalon the entirety of her pregnacy, she'll carry that egg for 192 months/16 years in the real world. That same measurement of time would apply to any gargoyle beast pregnancy. So in this scenario could Ophelia lay an egg in 2024 or would she have to wait until 2028? Anyways, I just sent this question about gargoyle pregnancies on Avalon to Ask Greg.
2nd point) Gargoyle eggs take 10 years to hatch. Any gargoyle egg laid in 2008 will take 10 years to hatch, regardless of location. So if an egg is laid on Avalon in 2008 (see point #1 about the problem with that), it would have to take 10 years * 24 Avalon time to hatch or 240 years later. If the unlikely event that a gargoyle egg was laid in 2008 on Avalon and stayed on Avalon, it would take 240 years to hatch. See http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=1687 for why we have to multiply by 24. That places any eggs hatching of any eggs laid by the Avalon clan after 1958 as being beyond the limits of the current timeline.

All this math is leading me to a relatively simple conclusion if you're not concerned with morality. For breeding purposes, the Avalon clan should briefly leave Avalon some time shortly before the 2008 breeding season. Once the females became pregnant, the males can return home and the females stay in the real world until their eggs are laid. This makes matters relatively simple. The problem becomes if those females return to Avalon, when would their next egg laying cycle be? Quite simply, they would have to wait until 20 more years passed for their bodies, which would be another 480 years.

Matt, if all my math and logic is right (and I hope I'm wrong), between 1998 and 2198, the Avalon clan gargoyles (not the beasts) could have laid only *1* generation of eggs. 480 real world years = time between laying eggs if you're stuck on Avalon plus basically 20 real world years of being pregnant if you're stuck on Avalon equals 500 real world years between laying eggs if you're stuck on Avalon. Now for those beasts, 1078 + 20 years old to have 1st litter * 24 Avalon time differential = 1558 * starts to collapse* being the 1st year a gargoyle beast could have become pregnant. Except gargoyle beasts can't become pregnant in 1558; they have to wait until 1568. So in 1568, one gargoyle beast becomes pregnant. As I mentioned, that hypothetical egg conceived in 1568, can't be laid for another 16 or 20 years, which makes that egg being laid in either 1584 or 1588. Now, that 1st gargoyle beast egg will have to wait another 10 years to hatch so it can't hatch until 240 years later or 1828, which isn't a year for hatching. We have to wait until the next egg hatching cycle which is in 1838. So that egg hatched in 1838. Now, that 1st gargoyle beast egg was laid in 1588 at latest, we have to wait another 20 years times 24 Avalon time differential or 480 years before the next gargoyle beast egg can be laid. 1588 + 480 = 2068 being the 2nd time that 1st gargoyle beast being pregnant can become pregnant again. 2068 + ~20 years of being pregnant puts that egg being laid by 2088. That egg laid in 2088, if it stayed on Avalon, normally wouldn't watch until 2338 (I'm not going to repeat my earlier calculations showing why it would take that long). In short, if Greg hadn't posted http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=6464 stating that the Avalon clan was still on Avalon in 2198, if breeding was the only issue, I would hope that the Avalon clan would leave as soon as possible.

What the heck am I still doing up?
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Sat, Mar 15, 2008 8:28:14 am EDT from 98.20.201.174

When I do the math for the beasts on Avalon, you take 40x24=960+1058 and you get 2018. 40 is for how old beasts are when their first egg would hatch, with 24 being the time number for Avalon vs. the real world, and 1058 being the year that the Avalon clan hatched. I know some older time lines having the Avalon clan hatching in 1078 and that would work for the beasts first egg to hatch in 2038, but I believe that I am correct.
Adam - [carl006_1999 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Sat, Mar 15, 2008 12:01:26 am EDT from 24.31.23.223

*Reads through four days of comments*

Geeez, missed a whole lot and nothing at all, it seems...

I'm fairly certain the gargoyle beast hatch date is correct however. Though I'd have to go over my notes to be sure.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Fri, Mar 14, 2008 8:26:37 pm EDT from 69.44.6.103

There's also Silvermane's right hand goon Mountain Man Marko
Antiyonder
posted @ Fri, Mar 14, 2008 8:01:06 pm EDT from 72.87.13.178

One note about last week's Spectacular Spider-Man premiere that I forgot to mention here (but was reminded of when Greg urged us all to see tomorrow's episode). I remember that one of the crooks Spidey foiled at the start of the first episode was named "Marko"; I remembered that the real name of the Juggernaut in "X-Men" was Cain Marko, but immediately thought, "No, it couldn't be him; he's the X-Men's villain." Then I find out that this Marko (with the first name of Flint) is supposed to become one of Spider-Man's villains - the Sandman. So, just to get this straight, there are two super-villains surnamed Marko in the Marvel Universe, but one's an X-Men villain and one a Spider-Man villain? That does seem kind of weird - though at least they're in separate divisions of that same universe.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Fri, Mar 14, 2008 7:38:55 pm EDT from 4.244.208.130

Adam - I'm confused by your comment. If the two gargoyle beasts mated and an egg was laid in 2008 on Avalon, it wouldn't hatch for 10 years **Avalon** time. That would push it to hatch 2248 unless the egg left Avalon.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Fri, Mar 14, 2008 5:57:23 pm EDT from 98.20.245.235

Phil. I have an account but it will not let me change anything and I can't find away to contact someone from the site. What I wanted to change was the fact that the egg that the 2 gargoyle beasts on Avalon should hatch in 2018, and not 2038.
Adam - [carl006_1999 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Fri, Mar 14, 2008 5:44:37 pm EDT from 170.112.1.251

Adam> Phil is correct. Just create an account (which is free and won't result in any e-mail beyond a confirmation) and either make the edits or ask about the info you think is wrong in the entry's discussion page.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Fri, Mar 14, 2008 2:41:55 pm EDT from 209.6.248.33

The One Known As Mochi>Hehe kewl are you going to comic con this year. If so would you like to help me?
Shara - [Jeanie54_2000 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Fri, Mar 14, 2008 1:56:45 pm EDT from 76.170.156.182

Adam re:Gargwiki> It's a wiki. You can just go in and change anything that's wrong. Or put a comment or question on the talk page if you're not sure.
Phil - [p1anderson at go dot com]
posted @ Fri, Mar 14, 2008 1:27:21 pm EDT from 134.215.196.82

Does anyone here in this room know how to contact the people who run gargwiki? I was looking threw the site and found something that I believe to be wrong. I would like to contact them and let them know.
Adam - [carl006_1999 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Fri, Mar 14, 2008 1:18:27 pm EDT from 170.112.1.251

GregX> Since you did bring it up, I would suggest you look at Spider-Girl #48 and 49 since they did give readers an idea of Tom's subplot in ASM. That Scrier/Kaine/Mongrain subplot they had before Byrne came aboard was geared into bringing Baby May into the titles. The SG issues I mention recap the particular subplot.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Fri, Mar 14, 2008 11:05:27 am EDT from 71.115.192.199

GregX> Never knew you read Spider-Girl. What did you think of Tom's handling of Venom and Carnage in the storylines?
Antiyonder
posted @ Fri, Mar 14, 2008 10:26:54 am EDT from 71.115.192.199

chris> You're totally right, and that's part of the reason I'm getting one. I have a Gathering shirt from last year, but it's white and I look terrible in white shirts. >..< This one's black so at least I'll be able to wear it in public without looking like a corpse.
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth_dragon at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Fri, Mar 14, 2008 8:42:41 am EDT from 216.57.96.1

Shara >> "...i went as far one year to run around as a gargoyle throwing gathering flyers out at comic con..."

Comic Con...? As in the one here in San Diego...? Let me know! :D
The One Known As Mochi - [shogi dot keima dot 08 at gmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>**)> No sleep...
posted @ Fri, Mar 14, 2008 1:35:36 am EDT from 72.199.225.9

Antiyonder> I dropped Spider-Man comics like a bad habit after the deal with Mephisto, and the public spat between Straczynski and Quesada. I wasn't wild about everything he did, but I loved Straczynki's run.

Spider-Girl> As long as the Hobgoblin is in it, I'll keep reading it. I just wish they would have actually let Peter and Mary Jane keep their baby in the regular Spider-Man universe instead of having Norman Osborn kidnap/kill the baby... whatever Marvel's story there is. Or at least let them find out the child is still alive... I don't know, Marvel isn't touching that issue at all, nor do I ever expect them to.

I like some of Ultimate Spider-Man. I hate how they handled the Goblins though, and I don't care for how Gwen and Mary Jane were role-reversed.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Is that not the perfect visual image of life and death? A fish flapping on the carpet, and a fish not flapping on the carpet." - Bill AKA Snake Charmer
posted @ Fri, Mar 14, 2008 1:00:27 am EDT from 75.56.245.4

Without rehashing some of the other comments about why I like Gargoyles I'll add another reasoning. The fact that Greg is willing to actually have relationships that aren't all about the "will they/won't they" bit. It satisfies my romantic needs from entertainment.

Anyway, with The Spectacular Spider-Man on the air and with some of our Spider-Man discussions, which Spider-Man or Spider-Man related book do you read regularly if any?

I might read the occassional Ultimate Spider-Man from the library, but I pick up The Amazing Spider-Girl. For the same reason as many fans, as it feels like an old school Spider-Man comic and allows for character changes that couldn't work in the regular Marvel Universe. Infact, to a degree I'd equate Tom Defalco's work on Spider-Girl and the rest of the MC2 Comics he wrote to being like DC Comic's Earth-2. Heroes grow, retire and their successors taking the mantle.

While not too much of a Spider-Man comic, I also get Marvel Adventures The Avengers. Nice character line up and a modern day comic with a Silver Age feel.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Fri, Mar 14, 2008 12:43:17 am EDT from 71.115.192.199

kess - I was the one who handled all the old registry entries with the exception of the A's. I have the complete list of everybody I've emailed along with the bad returns. If you makes you feel better, I accidently emailed woofyboy. Anyways, there's two possible ways I didn't email you. One is you managed to get on the short list of people not to email. The second is I didn't email any .edu email addresses. .edu email addresses belong to students in college. I'm thinking that fans shouldn't be using any college email accounts this many years later. 1)What was your nickname in the registry list? 2)Have you seen Guandalug la'Fay anywhere? For obvious reasons, contacting Guandalug la'Fay is fairly important to contact. I've tried multiple ways to no available.

Adam - See Monday's comments. We know already.

Wednesday, I'm hoping to get my copy of the trade as well as issue #8.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Fri, Mar 14, 2008 12:31:44 am EDT from 98.20.245.235

Gorebash and others>Its really not that hard to spred the word.

If anyone wants to help me out let me know. I could always use help at cons. *L* ask greg wiesman i went as far one year to run around as a gargoyle throwing gathering flyers out at comic con. Hehe talked to him at his pannel and in passing. Peeps help me out hehe its fun.
Shara - [Jeanie54_2000 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Thu, Mar 13, 2008 11:50:26 pm EDT from 76.170.156.182

dhp> Now you have me wondering what old address I was listed in there by. Since I didn't get anything. *L*
kess - [< Monthly Gargoyles Art Contest!]
posted @ Thu, Mar 13, 2008 10:50:56 pm EDT from 66.227.169.218

I don't know if this is old news or not, but according to diamond comics, gargoyles #8 is supposed to come out on the 19th of March. If this is true, then it is great news.
Adam - [carl006_1999 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Thu, Mar 13, 2008 10:41:25 pm EDT from 24.31.23.223

There were plenty of shirts at the Hot Topic near me- all in stinking large too! I had to dig deep for my medium, and I probably should have gotten a small- to me they are running a little big. But I love it! actually wearing mine right now. Only thing that could make it better would be if the lettering was in white instead of orange- makes it look too Halloween-y. I got some odd looks from the other teachers today and a few comments, but it helped start conversations.

That's a real simple way to spread the word- just wear the shirt in public- if someone wants to start the conversation it's up to them. You do no pressuring and they will be genuinely interested because they asked of their own accord. Those who want to be fans or need the reminder will find you quick and easy. You don't even have to talk to anyone, just seeing the image will jog people's memories to that time they watched that awesome show and maybe, just maybe, they'll go home and google Gargoyles for shits and giggles and go 'holy cow! the creator started the series again!' or 'Hey, I never knew these went to DVD, I think I want to pick one up.'

It just takes the memory being stirred.
chris
why do we build castles in the sky?
posted @ Thu, Mar 13, 2008 10:15:45 pm EDT from 162.39.22.185

Shara> Thanks for the link.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Thu, Mar 13, 2008 9:07:19 pm EDT from 76.247.79.197

So is there a Mayflower hotel in Plymouth, Massachusetts? Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Thanks for your words, Demonskrye. I think we could all learn a lot from them.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Thu, Mar 13, 2008 7:05:21 pm EDT from 4.244.210.136

It is finished. No more emailing from JEB's old garg fans registry.

Ed - I just sent you my last list of tried emails to your alternate email account.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Thu, Mar 13, 2008 6:46:49 pm EDT from 98.20.245.235

That's it. I've finished collecting all the email addys I'm going to get out of JEB's old garg fans registry list. No, I'm not throwing in the towel, but rather I've finished collected email addys in JEB's old garg fans list from all the letters of the alphabet.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Thu, Mar 13, 2008 5:34:02 pm EDT from 98.20.245.235

Wingless> Yes, I understand your point, but my point is that we shouldn't overestimate the problem that the delays cause in promoting the comic. A more regular schedule would be great, as would the second half of season two on DVD, but neither of these are absolute necessities. Like I said, we can push the trade and point people towards the e-mail list or encourage them to buy the next trade to work around the variable release dates. If you really think people need to see all of season two, you can direct them to Toon Disney or YouTube. Is it an optimal solution? No. Is it better than throwing your arms up in frustration and deciding there;s nothing you can do but bemoan the unfairness of the situation? Yes.

Mochi> You can make a purchase on the Hot Topic site without creating an account or getting mail from them.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Thu, Mar 13, 2008 5:33:08 pm EDT from 209.6.248.33

Hmm...

After having read many of comments made so far, it made me wonder why I was tired with the delays to begin with. Perhaps I let it get to me and lost focus on what really mattered: the comic being produced. Frustration aside, it's true that a lot has happened lately, and that's better than nothing, right?

So... I'll just focus my frustrations elsewhere and not worry so much about the comic.

I went to Hot Topic earlier this week to attempt purchasing the shirt. Turns out they didn't have any at all. I was told to go onto the website and call all the local shops to see if they have any.

For those who purchased the shirt on Hot Topics website, is an account required to make a purchase? I'm thinking of purchasing online instead of calling a bunch of shops that may not have the shirt...
The One Known As Mochi - [shogi dot keima dot 08 at gmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>**)> No sleep...
posted @ Thu, Mar 13, 2008 3:01:23 pm EDT from 72.199.225.9

To be successful in spreading the word, use all the Gargoyles episodes that are on DVD.
To get all the Gargoyles episodes on DVD, we need to successfully spread the word.

It's a catch-22 and that's the frustrating part, but we really shouldn't discuss all this negativity here. It's not helping the cause. Sure, I guess it's therapeutic, but for Greg W to read it it's very disheartening. And the last thing I want to do is break Greg's heart. So just do your best you can to spread the word, or don't.
(The Gargoyles Pulse - updated Mondays)
Anthony Tini
posted @ Thu, Mar 13, 2008 2:52:46 pm EDT from 159.240.11.254

My only point in all of this-and has been from the beginning is that in "Spreading the word" is extremely difficult to do if you don't have REGULAR product to do it. I'm not putting this on Greg, and i know SLG is a tiny fish in a big pond, And we're not really on Disney's highest priority list. It just makes promoting an irregular franchise extremely difficult for a new or casual fan. We understand these things but they likely won't

I wouldn't be ringing at this point so strongly if I didn't care or want to see the comic succeed.
Wingless
posted @ Thu, Mar 13, 2008 2:50:35 pm EDT from 99.245.254.123

While I agree that the comic being delayed is frustrating, I really don't think It totally kills our ability to spread the word. The fact that the trade is out actually makes our job easier since it's much easier to get through normal channels (like Amazon) than the single issues. Spreading the word does not mean telling people every little detail about the franchise, good or bad. It's way too overwhelming and confusing. Just say something along the lines of "Hey, check out this 'Gargoyles' trade paperback. Maybe you remember the show from the 90s, but even if you don't it's easy to get into. It's a really good comic and I think you'll like it." If the people you're trying to persuade pass, fine. Move on to someone else. If they buy the trade, great! That's a wonderful first step. Now maybe they're going to just read the trade and decide it's not their thing or whatever. Again, fine. But if they ask you if there's more, you can be honest without being negative. Don't say "Well, there are more issues but the schedule is really slow and backed up because SLG is small and Disney takes forever to approve the comics and it takes months and months for a new issue to come out and its all very sad and depressing and..." Say. "Yes there's more, and there's more coming. You can either sign up for this e-mail list that lets you know when a new issue is out, or you can wait several months for the next trade. Either way, issue #7 of the main comic is available now, as is issue #1 of the spinoff "Bad Guys". So you'll have something to read while you're waiting, And if you haven't watched the TV episodes yet, you can pick up the DVDs and really get caught up."

In answer to your question, Wingless, comic publishers like Marvel and DC are bigger than SLG and have more money than SLG. They can afford to be very choosey about who they hire and they can afford to hire more people to pick up the slack if somebody falls behind. They can also afford to pay each person more money, which means their writers and artists can devote most or all of their time to finishing that one comic. And even then, some people are just slow or get tied up with life issues and books can end up coming out months and months late. SLG simply can;t afford to pay anyone enough to make working on one or a few comics their full time job. Even some of their biggest name talents do other work to supplement their income. On top of that, most companies don't have to go through an outside approval process on their books since most comics aren't licensed. Not every problem has a real solution. If there was anything that Greg or Dan Vado or anyone involved with the comic could do to get Disney to speed up the approval process, I'm sure they would have done it by now. There's nothing we can really do about the delays, but it doesn't mean there's no point in spreading the word.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Thu, Mar 13, 2008 2:20:59 pm EDT from 209.6.248.33

Weren't we just at this point last month?

And since then we:
- Had a NEW T-shirt come out -- the first piece of ancillary merchandise in... how long?
- Had confirmation that Dan Vado wants to keep the lisence still.
- Had a LOAD of press on comic sites through Wondercon, Spectacular Spidey.
- Heard that Greg's got a new DC mini which will raise his profile.
- Heard that Bad Guys has a fill-in artist to get it back on schedule.
- Launched www.gargoylescomic.com as an info source.
- Reached out to several old Gargoyles mailing lists, link rings etc
- DPH especially has been finding new comic readers through the Gargoyles Registry.

If that's a depressing month, what's a good month?!

We've suffered a delay... *the first major delay in a year*. And for that matter, it's only the back-up comic that's suffering the same teething delays as the main comic did. #8 was ready two months after #7 and but for Disney would be out right now. I mean, I know the delays aren't ideal but it ain't "Ultimates". And "Ultimates" could actually afford to go out of pocket stockpiling issues while not getting a cent back.

On the topic of Disney's approval process... we don't know what it entails and I know people don't generally have sympathy for big corporations but let's give the guy employed by Disney to approve this stuff the benefit of the doubt that his job entails more than flipping through a comic while glugging Diet Fanta. I can well imagine the stuff that needs approval by Disney every day. Mickey Mouse toilet seats and Donald Duck soap with oddly proportioned beaks and who knows what.

I understand that in the UK a company was brought in specifically to oversee licenses on behalf of the license-owners -- Mirage or Sega or the BBC or whoever it might be. The problem was, the people overseeing the lisence didn't have any detailed knowledge of the properties -- they just had what they were given and an instinct to be overcautious on behalf of the property-holders. If the model sheets didn't show a character from the back -- well then, the character can't be shown from the back. If the model sheets didn't show them frowning, well then, they oughtn't be caught frowning. It's not that they mean badly, but these guys are also overseeing shampoo and toothpaste and all that licensed stuff and a kids' comic is just another piece of merchandise on their desk. Let's count ourselves lucky that with 'Gargoyles' Greg seems to have a lot of creative freedom, with artists and editors and publishers and people at Disney who are backing his play.

Demonskrye: Cool question. I love the universe, I love the storytelling, and I just want to see what Greg does next. I've been following it for 11 years and I've been on S8 most days for over a decade. I've found out a lot through 'Gargoyles' or people I've met through 'Gargoyles', or from Greg.

As for "putting up" with the "stress" and "anxiety"... it's just not a consideration. I don't find it at all "stressful" and as Patrick commented earlier in the week, I'm slightly bemused anyone does. I really hope we'll get picked up and when I have some free time posting here and spreading the word makes for great semi-productive procrastination from all the other stuff I should be doing. Is waiting a few weeks to read a comic REALLY that big a crisis?

Wingless: "How do other comics get out on time?" Many don't, of course. Marvel and DC can afford decent wages so the writers and artists can keep going pretty much full-time, but that doesn't mean there aren't ever delays. Amazing Spidey was delayed for a while last year; the Ultimates was always months and months behind. It's not unusual. And outside of the "Big Two", a lot of series are actually mini-series or black and white or in some ways lower-risk. "Bone", I believe, was quarterly, at least towards the end of its run. And with most of these smaller things, the creators only get paid AFTER it sells -- if it sells.

'Gargoyles' is different. Before anything, SLG is presumably funding the writer and artist and colourist and letterer. If they were to "stockpile" issues, the company (and by "the company" I'm guessing that's Dan Vado and maybe one or two other people) would be out of pocket for, potentially, months on end. They could pay the artists more to justify them giving up other, most likely better paid work, to continue on 'Gargoyles' -- but then the comic potentially ceases to be profitable.

SLG got the title comic off the ropes after a rocky start, and I have every faith they'll do the same with the spin-off. They've already lined up a fill-in artist after all.
Ed
posted @ Thu, Mar 13, 2008 2:10:01 pm EDT from 213.187.39.61

SPREADING THE WORD is difficult, there's no doubt about it. And I think it's definitely easier to get people excited about the show on DVD. Most of it is already there, in a nice package. It's like, "Hey you ever heard of a show called Gargoyles? BANG! There's the first season right there. Check it out." Most likely, if the first season clicks with someone, they will be excited for the second season. And hopefully, you've encouraged them to purchase the next DVD.

The comic is something else entirely. It feels like it's slower, like there's not as much to absorb at once. This is mostly because of the difference between a comic that is going right now versus a television show that is already done, but the delays certainly don't help. It's harder to give them that BANG! The TPB works great for now. But to me, the best way to generate excitement for the comic is to make someone excited about the show first. You can even tease them if you want. "Oh I'd love to show you the comic, but you need to get caught up with what happened on the show first." Once they are ready, they will hopefully realize that the delays don't really hurt them. It's not like they are paying a monthly fee for a comic that doesn't appear. If you turn a negative into a positive, you can say that the delays make each new comic more special. You can talk to them a few days after a new comic ships and get all excited. "Did you see the Gargoyles? Aww man... So awesome." Do what you can to get them in a comic store.
Matt H
posted @ Thu, Mar 13, 2008 1:49:36 pm EDT from 205.144.127.10

Wingless> You're assuming that everyone we tell will just be a casual fan, and casual fans won't keep the comic running. If we let people know the schedule isn't as regular as it could be, the people who will be more than casual will be okay with that. They can get the TPB to get them started, and get the rest they'd need to catch up. They might even check back here, SLG, or the Pulse site to keep track of future releases.

For casual fans, I think the best idea would be to pitch the TPB to them. That will give them enough to know whether the delayed schedule is worth keeping up with the rest.
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth_dragon at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Thu, Mar 13, 2008 1:26:52 pm EDT from 216.57.96.1

>Ding

These delays are all on Disney's end and we can't control it, so there's no point in worrying about it.

But how can we promote the book?

Maybe we push the trade paperbacks instead. It might take another year, but when it comes out it's not just one book, it's a complete story arc. Hawking the book in that fashion might just be the way to go and avoid looking silly when we say the comic is due next month and it doesn't hit.

And maybe instead of bi-monthly books things go in the direction SLG's trying to with graphic novels. Instead of bi-monthly maybe we get a trade paperback (or is it a graphic novel if the individual issues aren't published?) once a year. Then it's not a matter of monthly delays it's a matter of the book is out when it's out and when it's in our hands we can say SEE or GO BUY.
Gorebash
posted @ Thu, Mar 13, 2008 1:26:25 pm EDT from 207.206.236.203

Oh, and just to insure that I'm still a true blue fan, I just shelled out 24 bucks for one of the original Garg posters on Ebay a few weeks back. Woo! 1 down, 3 to go.
Wingless
posted @ Thu, Mar 13, 2008 1:21:46 pm EDT from 99.245.254.123

Greg W. Thanks For your comment. We love you too and I appreciate you taking the time to talk to us.

As for the topic at hand. The Gargoyles comic is now what-2...coming up on 3 months late(if memory serves right). How do other comics get out on time? I can understand the first few issues having hangups simply getting a rhythm going - but we're now a few years into this. There's got to be some reason behind the delays and a way to fix it. My problem hasn't been promoting the comic and you know that. We're trying to BUILD the fandom - but HOW can we do that if we can't get the product out on a regular basis? Honestly Greg - how many TV shows would survive if the time slot was moved every week and the only way to find out was word of mouth from fans? The comic is supposed to be out every 2 months - a casual fan would expect that, and if it isn't, they're going to forget about it. There isn't ANYTHING that'll keep me(or likely the restu of us in here) from buying it, but the idea about "spreading the word" is to build on what we have in the fandom -and we can't very well do that without a more reasonable release schedule. If that seems harsh, I'm sorry, but it's also a reality if you really want the comic to succeed - and I do, really I do.
Wingless
posted @ Thu, Mar 13, 2008 1:15:09 pm EDT from 99.245.254.123

King Cobra> Here is the link to the gargoyles Webcomic

Http://www.ka-blamo.com/gargs

Greg w>sometimes I wish more people would help me spred the word at conventions but no one wants to :(
Peoples come on help me help help me :P
Shara - [Jeanie54_2000 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Thu, Mar 13, 2008 11:32:09 am EDT from 76.170.156.182

Patrick> My bad, the news kept switching to external views of the Mayflower sign during Elliot's resignation speech.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Is that not the perfect visual image of life and death? A fish flapping on the carpet, and a fish not flapping on the carpet." - Bill AKA Snake Charmer
posted @ Thu, Mar 13, 2008 10:56:38 am EDT from 75.56.245.4

Demonskrye> Why are you here?

Well, I heard about s8 when I watched/listened to the Gargoyles S1 DVD commentary. From then on, I come here to see what the fans are discussing and I like reading Greg Weisman's responses to questions. Plus, having some staple in the CR gives you insight on when the GW queue is to be opened if I happen to have any questions. Overall, there are some cool cats in the CR that are pretty funny and I like how everyone's unique personality is portrayed in this room. I appreciate all of your friendship even though I've never met any of you. Plus, I come here to update people on the Gargoyles Pulse that I update. It's mostly for me, but I figured I share it as a resource.

>What keeps you interested in "Gargoyles"?

That's easy - the storyline. I'm glad the comic exists to give us more storyline and I look forward to getting my hands on it as soon as I can. I get real excited about release dates. I get DVDs/Video Games/CDs on release day. If there is a midnight release of something I really want, i.e. Super Smash Bros Brawl for Wii, then I'm there! So the thrill of the hunt for Gargoyles also keeps me interested as well.

I love Gargoyles. I'm spreading the word in multiple forums and doing the best that I can. I don't want the comic to die and I hate delays, but as the Spanish would say, "asi es la vida".
(The Gargoyles Pulse - updated Mondays)
Anthony Tini
posted @ Thu, Mar 13, 2008 10:53:10 am EDT from 159.240.11.254

I first visited because a friend of mine told me of the existence of s8 and the CR and I was curious. I stayed because here I get updates on what's going on, sometimes there's really good discussion, and for the most part everyone here is good people. I like talking biology, but I do enjoy reading other topics that come up.

As for Gargoyles in general, I was a teenager when it first came out, but the storylines and characters were still "adult" enough for me, if that makes sense. The show gave viewers credit for brains, and the only time I thought a message was laid on too thick was in "Lighthouse" because I'd been an avid reader since I could hold a book.

With some books/shows/etc, the people working on it focus on either the characters or the storylines, to the detriment of the other. Gargoyles did neither: it has very interesting, complex characters, but also manages to have solid, intriguing stories (and even subplots) whether they're wrapped up in a single episode or are overarching themes. It doesn't like following cliches for the sake of pandering to the lowest common denominator (meaning the widest range of people); Elisa doesn't immediately get well after the accidental shooting, she and Goliath don't have a perfect relationship right off the bat, etc. There are actual surprises in there, too, which are very refreshing.

I was happy enough that this place existed, but when I found out about the comic I was ecstatic. I'd much rather have the (official) story continued in any medium than no more at all, and I know that even though Greg W's given a lot away here already, he'll still manage to surprise us with the new material. I'll hopefully get my shirt this weekend, so I'll finally have something to wear around (I do have last year's Gathering shirt, but white makes me look dead, so I don't like wearing it outside the house). ^..^
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth_dragon at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Thu, Mar 13, 2008 9:29:36 am EDT from 216.57.96.1

Greg W> I think that needed to be said.

I think it's a very fair thing to assume that every person who regularly comes to the Comment Room knows about spreading the word. There's no need to rehash it. If a new person comes into the Room, there's no need to immediately try to "draft" them into spreading the word. If someone says something along the lines of "I love the comic. How can I help make sure it keeps going?", by all means tell them about spreading the word and all our ideas for doing so. But if I go into an online forum to talk about virtually any other comic, I'm not told that I need to "save" the comic or help promote it.

It is frustrating that the comic keeps getting delayed. There is nothing we or anyone we may have access to can do about it. (If you really think doing it faster is a viable option, try doing something that involves some level of creativity, then try to do it twice as fast and see if the results are even half as good.) Complaining about it doesn't accomplish anything. It is certainly frustrating when you're trying to spread the word, but it's not crippling. The first trade is out, so anyone you get interested in the comic can get the first six issues of the main book without much trouble, meaning they only have to find issue #7 to be fully caught up with the main title. As for the sporadic release schedule, you can get around that by either getting new readers to sign up for the e-mail list notifying them when a new issue comes out or just tell them yourself. All it means is that spreading the word doesn't necessarily end with letting people know the comic exists.

No one should buy the comic if they cannot afford it or aren't interested in reading it. No one is required to spread the word if they don't want to for whatever reason. Likewise, no one should be worrying over the comic any more than is productive. If anyone here is seriously suffering stress over the fate of the comic to the point where the worry comes anywhere near outweighing the pleasure you get from it, that does not mean the comic needs to go away. That means you need to figure out how to take this issue less seriously. Look at the situation logically. Pursue some other interests. Spend a week or two away from the Comment Room. Or if it's really that bad, stay away from "Gargoyles" until you can keep it in perspective. I really like "Gargoyles" and I think it's amazing that the comic is happening and we're getting to read new stories after such a long time. I'll be sad if the comic ends. But I'm not going to be profoundly affected by it. I've had comics and TV shows and other things I've enjoyed end without any sort of closure and I've survived. "Gargoyles" is important to me, but I have higher priorities in my life. Greg Weisman is probably more obsessed with "Gargoyles" than just about anyone and HE has bigger priorities in his life.

What we need to keep in mind is that "Gargoyles" in general and the comic in particular are ENTERTAINMENT. It's supposed to be FUN. Sometimes you do end up putting in something akin to work out of love for something fun (like spreading the word or working on GargWiki). But if you're no having fun anymore, it's not worth it. I admit, I sometimes get unduly upset by something that happens on a website. What I try to tell myself is that I browse the web largely to entertain myself and if I'm getting stressed out, I'm not accomplishing that goal and I ought to walk away. I'm not always successful, but i try.

So I'm going to ask everyone a question which I actually would like to see answered: Why are you here? What keeps you interested in "Gargoyles"? No right or wrong answers here. I just want to see people really think about what it is that makes the delays and frustrations worth dealing with. And I want to see some positive conversation in here.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Thu, Mar 13, 2008 8:58:56 am EDT from 209.6.248.33

And I was right... it's the Mayflower Hotel in D.C., not the one in NYC. I remember the one in NYC, and I can't even imagine that they have any $500 a night rooms for $1,000 an hour call girls. :P

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayflower_Hotel
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"Everything in this room is eatable, even *I'm* eatable! But that is called 'cannibalism,' my dear children, and is in fact frowned upon in most societies." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Thu, Mar 13, 2008 8:03:12 am EDT from 24.106.128.24

Bad Creativity Demon of the Day (inspired by my "On This Day" desk calendar):

Brooklyn, during his Timedancing adventures, arrives in the year 1781 and tries to persuade the astronomical community to come up with a different name for that new just-discovered planet, something that isn't likely to provoke as much cheap adolescent humor.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Thu, Mar 13, 2008 7:50:11 am EDT from 4.244.210.236

Greg B. > Really? What I read sounded like the Mayflower that he had his hook-ups at was in Washington, D.C.

106 days left until The Gathering 2008 in Chicago, Illinois!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"Stop whining!" - Arnold Schwartzeneggar, "Kindergarten Cop"
posted @ Thu, Mar 13, 2008 7:04:27 am EDT from 76.205.90.236

Well all I have to say is in the words of Halcyon Renard: STOP WHINING!

End Quote.

Whining or worrying never helped anyone and will only end up shortening your life span, right into an early grave. We all want the comic to succeed but I'd rather see a dead CR then a depressing one.
Vinnie - [tpeano29 at hotmail dot com]
It's silly. It's a silly movie. There just isn't much there. Once you take it all apart, there's not much story, is there?- George Lucas on Spider-Man 3
posted @ Thu, Mar 13, 2008 6:57:23 am EDT from 69.54.209.15

Crap, now I feel bad...I tend to forget Greg reads some of this stuff.

To Greg if you come back in here, I apologize if anything I said in my recent outburst offended you. I've never met you and I already managed to insult you. Go me! Anyway my ire was really directed towards the Disney people. I know you're doing everything in your power to keep the book going, and find the time to write up these awesome plotlines despite your heavy workload, and you and the artists have no control over the approval process. I do see where you're coming from-I'm an artist and more times than I can remember I've done work for people and have gotten no pay and hardly an acknowledgement--It must be even more annoying when you have people whining to you ;)

I definitely agree we should do all we can to spread the word if we're able, cause no one else will. I'm frustrated that we can't do more.
Purplegoldfish - [Skydragonn at aol dot com]
posted @ Thu, Mar 13, 2008 3:34:09 am EDT from 205.188.117.134

thanks for making such a great show and continuing it on comic books. Although i'd rather just read it out like a book, this is great as well xD. Keep it up.
Mich - [vipertongn at gmail dot com]
posted @ Thu, Mar 13, 2008 2:48:24 am EDT from 71.139.53.114

Another post I know I'll regret. (I really should stop stopping by here.)

You're fed up with the delays? Join the club. Some of you would actually rather see the comic gone then have "the stress" of delays? Really? Okay.

Look, I love you all. Wingless, you KNOW I love you. But if you don't want to promote a book with an erratic schedule, then don't. Just don't. No one's holding a gun to your collective heads. Don't SPREAD THE WORD. Just don't. I have NEVER mandated it -- assuming I even had the power to mandate anything. I've asked for help because the reality is that if you and I collectively don't do it, no one else would. (THAT hasn't changed.) But just as I've always said that you shouldn't be spending money you don't have, you also shouldn't be spending time your not inclined to spend. If it isn't a cause you think merits your support (for WHATEVER reason) then don't offer said support. Just don't.

The comic has delivery issues. You know what: that's reality. There's no magic to it. IT'S DAMN HARD TO PUT OUT A BI-MONTHLY BOOK, let alone two. It is hard. YOU try it! I'm swamped with a full-time paying job that keeps me up until all hours nearly all the time. I have witnesses to prove it. And I don't have to DRAW anything. Our regular pencillers have to get this thing drawn -- and for VERY little money to boot. We get fill in artists, and that helps the schedule, but it's not a cure all. (The fill-in artists don't get paid a ton either.) For all of us, ALL OF US, this is a labor of love. As for Disney, yes, there is a bottleneck there. But we're all powerless to do anything about it. Why waist energy tilting at the wind - not just a windmill, but the wind? The idea that we should get four months (or whatever) ahead, is frankly, a joke. YOU try it. (And I'm not even sure that would help. We're two issues -- nearly three issues -- ahead, and we still don't have an approval.)

For the record I have not been promising a monthly book since issue #3. I haven't ever PROMISED anything. I told you our goals, which we've sometimes met and sometimes failed to meet. And our goal to have monthly product never existed, was never intended to exist, before issue #6 anyway.

If the stress of the comic is too much for you, fine. I'm telling you that at minimum we will finish out Clan-Building and Redemption. Maybe that's it. BUT MAYBE NOT. SLG wants to renew. We'll see what happens. Those of you who want to stick around, STICK. Those who don't, don't. Those who want to help us promote the book, HELP. Those who don't, just don't. I'm not gonna be mad at you or anything. But don't pretend we've insisted on it, and that we've let down our end of some kind of social contract. We are holding up our end to the best of our ability. We are NEVER going to hit ALL our deadlines. I certainly think we've improved the situation since the first couple of issues, but even the big two comic book companies miss deadlines on occasion, and they have WAY more resources and money than we do. WAY MORE. I hope we improve. But I'm never going to pretend that we'll have the situation licked in perpetuity, assuming there is an "in perpetuity".

I've said repeatedly that it shouldn't be the fans' job to promote the property, the book, anything. But I've also pointed out the reality that if they don't, it won't get done. I continue to promote this thing at every opportunity. I'd love it if you did the same. But if you don't feel like it, then don't.

So... ENDURE. Or not. And complain too, if you want too, I guess. But how about a LITTLE perspective?

Anyway, here's my new motto for a modern world and the modern fan: SPREAD THE WORD... or don't.
Greg Weisman
"Uh... because my spider-sense was tingling?" -- The Spectacular Spider-Man (March 15, 2008)
posted @ Thu, Mar 13, 2008 2:43:39 am EDT from 68.183.95.134

Alma> "Gee Cobra, you're a really nice person!!"

Thanks. I make mistakes, but I try.

Shara> Good to hear about the webcomic. Got a link?
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Thu, Mar 13, 2008 2:40:57 am EDT from 76.247.79.197

::Watching the news::

What do former New York governor, Elliot Spitzer, $80,000 in hookers, Spitzer's resignation and the Gargoyles Fandom all have in common?

The Mayflower Hotel, where our first Gathering took place ;)
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Is that not the perfect visual image of life and death? A fish flapping on the carpet, and a fish not flapping on the carpet." - Bill AKA Snake Charmer
posted @ Thu, Mar 13, 2008 2:38:44 am EDT from 75.56.245.4

King cobra good to see you agian. !!!!! We got a new issues of the garg webcomic up finally.

I say ya all do what I do ,just babble to people about the dvd and such and usually they will wait. If you babble they will come. ;-P
Shara - [Jeanie54_2000 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Thu, Mar 13, 2008 1:32:09 am EDT from 76.170.156.182

King Cobra:
Gee Cobra, you're a really nice person!!
Hahaha, ok that was wierd and funny but I mean it!!! Yeah, I'd love to see those pictures and meet you and your boyfriend. Wow you guys are lucky to be able to go to the Gatherings and yeah, I'll check into it!
Changing to another subject, I can see that the comic delays are really creating controversy, huh? I hope you guys can come to a solution. I'd just like to say that a positive attitude is always better than a negative one and that we should never forget the real essence of Gargoyles. I mean, at least we had the pleasure...
Cobra, take care!
Everyone: good luck!
Alma in Mexico - [azzanea at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Thu, Mar 13, 2008 12:32:49 am EDT from 189.161.1.183

Oh Dear God. No one is blaming anyone, and blaming doesn't help anyway. But I'm totally with Wingless on this issue. How can we be expected to "spread the word" when the delays are so bad? And we're not talking a couple weeks, we're talking months here, on a consistant basis.

in every single comic issue that has come out so far since the third issue, Greg says that there will be one gargoyles comic on the shelves every month. So what am I supposed to say when someone rightly asks, "well, where's the comic?" It's not right for this to be pinned on the fans when there's so many problems that we have no control over

I'm sorry, but this should have been fixed by now. I don't care who at Disney deals with approvals or how long it takes or why it's taking so long, but it needs to be fixed if the book is to have a future. I'm not buying anymore excuses. This is supposed to be a professional company and the delays and broken promises have been going on too long.

That's all I will say on the matter (and BTW, to those of you who don't like the comic discussion...well don't read the posts. Stop complaining. If you want to talk about something else than post a topic.)
Purplegoldfish - [Skydragonn at aol dot com]
posted @ Thu, Mar 13, 2008 12:09:16 am EDT from 205.188.117.134

No, it's the Illuminati members that have infiltrated Disney who don't want Greg to spill all their secrets.(:
Ntripy
posted @ Wed, Mar 12, 2008 10:49:22 pm EDT from 72.232.196.138

Not Disney. The blame lies in the hippie commune that I'm teaching at right now. Seriously. We have scheduled 'commune with nature MAGIC SPOTS!' If that doesn't scream wtf I don't know what does. Thank the gods there's internet access. Vatican's a good answer too;) no blame anywhere, just thankful they exist in the first place.

Now must get back to my communing with nature activities.

I'm a highschool teacher-any advice on surviving 3rd graders?

I know, off topic...
chris
why do we build castles in the sky?
posted @ Wed, Mar 12, 2008 10:17:38 pm EDT from 162.39.22.185

Disney's not the culprit, here. It's the Vatican. You can't trust that Queen Spider.

Seriously, after ten years, a few weeks is nothing.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Customs, morals... is there a difference? Here, by the grace of God and an inside straight, we have a personality untouched by the psychotic taboos of our tribe - and YOU want to turn him into a copy of every fourth-rate conformist in this frightened land! Why not go the whole hog? Get him a briefcase." -Jubal Harshaw ("Stranger In a Strange Land")
posted @ Wed, Mar 12, 2008 9:56:27 pm EDT from 71.62.198.251

And it's not like we can't tell people that the schedule is erratic. When we're promoting the comic, we definitely should let them know that, and I think people would appreciate our honesty.
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth_dragon at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Wed, Mar 12, 2008 8:34:48 pm EDT from 24.98.74.35

I've been coming to Ask Greg for several years now, but have never really come to this comment room until about 2 weeks ago. I thought it would be interesting to see what others were thinking about Gargoyles. So far, 90% of the conversation has been complaints on the comic book, for whatever reason. At first I thought it would die down, but it really hasn't.

Personally, I feel that the comic is a privelege for us readers to have. 10 years without anything, and now that we have something, everyone complains and/or wishes it would be cancelled? I actually cannot believe what I've been reading on here. When the comic comes out, it comes out. There's nothing we can really do about it, except what we've already been doing. Just let it be.

I'm not wanting to come off as preachy for my 2nd time of posting something on this page, but I felt like I needed to say something, so now I've spoken my peace.
Charisma82
"It's better to have a horrible ending than to have horrors without end."
posted @ Wed, Mar 12, 2008 8:32:59 pm EDT from 64.13.117.74

Antiyonder here. I'm typing on a library computer, so I'm not going to both with insert my usual info (since the library computer will keep it stored).

As for the comic, yeah I'm still a little frustrated with the whole approval process/delays as well. But truth be told I'm not as bothered by it as I was a fewweeks ago. Just been further committing myself to some online games and my recycling.
Anonymous
posted @ Wed, Mar 12, 2008 7:49:06 pm EDT from 66.96.64.38

Well, most of the stress in my life at present is about the books that I'm writing - but reading about the worries about the comics not being out on time does tend to produce a slightly contagious feeling.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Wed, Mar 12, 2008 7:32:18 pm EDT from 4.244.213.117

Good grief. I don't know about the rest of the adults here, but the "anxiety" I feel over the "Gargoyles" comic book makes up about 0.1% of the total stress in my life on a daily basis.
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"If at first you don't succeed, skydiving isn't the sport for you." - Steven Wright
posted @ Wed, Mar 12, 2008 7:10:29 pm EDT from 76.205.90.236

Sebastian makes a point. I've sometimes wondered whether it might be, in some ways, better if the comic was cancelled; yes, we wouldn't have any more stories, but at least we'd be free from the anxiety over the issues coming out late and the fear of cancellation. It's the difference between not knowing if a loved one gone missing is still alive or dead, and knowing that he or she is dead, but at least able to mourn him or her and know for certain what happened.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Wed, Mar 12, 2008 6:55:54 pm EDT from 4.244.213.117

My problem has never been promoting the comic - my problem has always been that we go out of our way to do so, inform people that the comic is out every 2 months, and we look like liars when it's delayed as often as it is.
Wingless
posted @ Wed, Mar 12, 2008 5:48:21 pm EDT from 99.245.254.123

Sebastion> I agree that we don't need to promote it 24/7, but when we have time to spare it's not going to hurt. That doesn't necessarily mean I'll bug someone into picking it up, but merely suggest it to them. Like with anything there's a wrong or right way to go about it.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Wed, Mar 12, 2008 5:39:24 pm EDT from 71.115.192.199

>Cobra

I'll change it to I don't want to actively promote the comic, in ways that have been suggested, heck, even demanded by people on this site. Passively telling people who might be interested, sure.

But I feel dirty trying to sell a product to people. And get annoyed when people do it to me.

The only approach I've liked was (I don't remember who it was, I think Todd or Matt)a brief mention at another forum. They posted, and let us know. But I don't like coming to this site and leave feeling pressured to do something.

And we have been told numerous times to spread the word. I think everyone in this comment room has heard it enough. So stop telling us to do it, your preaching is only going to drive us away. Maybe it is just me that is annoyed by it, but I have trouble imagining that.
Sebastian
posted @ Wed, Mar 12, 2008 5:36:17 pm EDT from 128.12.69.35

Sebastian> "Yah, I like Gargoyles, but I'm not going to waste my time promoting the comic book."

Why not? It's good for the fandom, and it could help everyone out. It doesn't take much money, time, and/or effort to promote the comics.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Wed, Mar 12, 2008 4:17:45 pm EDT from 76.247.79.197

Can't we just talk about things we enjoy.

Yah, I like Gargoyles, but I'm not going to waste my time promoting the comic book. A handful of people in this comment room are doing things, kudos to them, but don't expect the rest of us to join you.

Another handful of people just like to harp on about how their lives are going to be over if Gargoyles dies, and its all Disney's fault. Seriously? Gargoyles means that much to you? It is fun and all, but there are better things to be doing with your time.

The rest of us come in for the fun discussions. I pop in every few days to see if anything interesting is happening, but too often recently has it been doomsday this and your duty that.

We have this discussion EVERY MONTH, if not more frequent, and it is not fun.

I would rather hypothesize on when humans and gargoyles started interacting, when gargoyles evolved to their present form, etc.

Obviously we would like to discuss the comic, but its not here right now, and I don't want to read peoples' complaints about the lack of comics. Come up with something more interesting to talk about or hold your tongue.
Sebastian
posted @ Wed, Mar 12, 2008 3:46:30 pm EDT from 128.12.69.35

Disney is not out to kill the Gargoyles comic. That assumption is utterly absurd. Here's why:

Disney wants to make money.
For Disney, the Gargoyles comic is FREE MONEY.

SLG pays the licensing fee to Disney.
SLG pays all the production costs.
SLG pays for all the advertising.

Disney pays for nothing, except perhaps the time the person who approves the books takes to review them. That person, rest assured, is not dedicated to just approving Gargoyles books. He or she probably has many other jobs. That things may be a bit slow in the approval process doesn't mean Disney wants to can the books, it just means things are busy.

The only people we need to worry about is SLG. As long as the Gargoyles comics turn a profit (even just a small one) for SLG they'll keep producing the books. Dan Vado has said as much in the past. Now SLG's possible move to restructure itself around graphic novels may change Dan's opinion on the future of the series, but he's already expressed an interest to renew the license.

We still need to promote the comic. Get online. Go to forums (NOT THE COMMENT ROOM). Pimp the comic. Seriously, you want to keep the book going YOU have to help. Disney won't pay for advertising and the books aren't pulling enough to afford SLG the budget to do major advertising outside of their own comics. So it's UP TO YOU, YES YOU, READING THIS RIGHT NOW, IN ALL CAPS, to promote the book.

_BE_SHAMELESS_ in your plugging of the book to all your favorite online forums. Just don't be obnoxious. You a fan of Warcraft? Pimp it on the WoW boards. Fan of SL, Gaia, Habbo, etc? PIMP IT THERE. Myspace? Facebook? Create a Facebook group dedicated to the books.

The only conspiracy here is our conspiracy to promote the Gargoyles comics as much as possible.

The only problem is our conspiracy is little more than thought right now. We need some action.

Don't look to Disney. Look to yourself.
Gorebash
posted @ Wed, Mar 12, 2008 2:34:05 pm EDT from 207.206.236.203

Patrick> I don't want to go over this AGAIN, but there WAS a Conspiarcy over JFK. It WASN'T Oz, we all know that. END.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Wed, Mar 12, 2008 1:02:34 pm EDT from 75.156.180.163

Disney's Decision> Having given it some more thought overnight, I think the worry is less that someone at Disney thinks that "Gargoyles" could or should be making more money and more that someone at Disney thinks whatever time and work is currently being devoted to "Gargoyles" could be better spent on another comic or project that would be more lucrative for them. That being said, I am reasonably optimistic that Disney will agree to the license renewal and we'll have at least that worry off our chests.

Christine> That's my point. Who is there other than Wendy Pini? If there doesn't seem to be another person in comics, does anyone know of a fantasy writer who might like the book and has a reasonably big following of fans who may not already know about "Gargoyles"?
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Wed, Mar 12, 2008 9:11:04 am EDT from 209.6.248.33

DPH - Yes, I've read about that variant as well. In it, Jeremiah accompanied Tea (the daughter of Zedekiah, the last king of Judah) and the Stone to Ireland. where Tea married Eremon and gave him the Stone. (I can see why Greg didn't use that version; he'd already used the name "Tea" in "Mark of the Panther", and wouldn't want to confuse his readers.)
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Wed, Mar 12, 2008 8:43:34 am EDT from 4.244.209.62

Rebel - You do realize that's what Ed Reynold's mailing list is about, right?

Funny thing about the Stone of Destiny. It showed up in my my small group study at my church. One alternative theory was the stone stayed with the Hebrews until it was brought back to Egypt with Jeremiah when Jerusalem was sacked.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Wed, Mar 12, 2008 8:17:05 am EDT from 98.20.245.235

I think that the conspiracy theories are encouraged by the fact that "Gargoyles" doesn't fit the Disney stereotype, and therefore Disney might feel uncomfortable with it. People are more prone to believe a conspiracy theory if the person whom they think is guilty had a motive for doing it.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Wed, Mar 12, 2008 8:00:52 am EDT from 4.244.214.236

If Disney wanted to be done with "Gargoyles", they would have stuck it in the darkest part of the vault right beside "Song of the South" and that would have been the end of it. All of this speculation about Disney's diabolical plans to make the comic book do poorly holds just about as much water as the JFK and 9/11 conspiracy theories.

107 days left until The Gathering 2008 in Chicago, Illinois!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"I know what I like, and I like what I know..." - Genesis
posted @ Wed, Mar 12, 2008 6:57:52 am EDT from 76.205.90.236

Rebel> I've found that the best way to get the word out is to advertise at conventions. Just dress up run around and throw flyers at people. ;P Actully I try to get a booth and I pass out the old skybox cards at the same time while talking about the comic and dvds and the gathering. (agian while in costume) Costumes draw the people into you so you can babble and hope they listen.
Shara - [Jeanie54_2000 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Wed, Mar 12, 2008 6:25:46 am EDT from 76.170.156.182

Hi All. Shara here. Some of you might of met me at the gathering. I have been offline for a bit. Moved into a new place. Illness, new job and life.

I wanna say that I am very excited about the gathering this year. I can't wait to hear keith sing. I remember at the gathering in California when i first met him, its wierd you get all fan girly. Never had that happen before . I Went into totally geekdom .. cant say hello.. can only smile and giggle like a school girl mode. It was so weird. But getting to have him shake my hand and sign my copy of the Comic was awsome.

Oh oh and if anyone is interested. The Gargoyles webcomic is still around. We got some new issues up finally. Few its been awhile. We should have a issue up once a month or at least every 2 months and not let the site lapse anymore. But anyways new issues up. Go look.

Http://www.ka-blamo.com/gargs

also if anyone is interested in helping spred the word about gargoyles, the dvd ,comic book etc. tshirts at hottopic. Let me know. I like to attend cons and pass out the gathering flyers . Of course in costume.
Shara - [Jeanie54_2000 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Wed, Mar 12, 2008 6:22:33 am EDT from 76.170.156.182

<< Intro Writers> Well, someone not directly involved with "Gargoyles" who would be a big enough name to draw in new readers is a bit tougher, but you may be right. >>

Wendy Pini!!! :)
Christine - [christine at sabledrake dot com]
posted @ Wed, Mar 12, 2008 3:39:48 am EDT from 70.56.94.10

I thought about putting this in Ask Greg, but I wanted to see if you guys thought this was a good idea first:

"*~*brief review of Spider-man, I cut this because this is not what I need help with*~*

But, what I really want to talk about is Gargoyles. If one of us from the comment room made an e-mail list, or a yahoo group, or a facebook group, or a myspace group (or all of the above), solely for the purpose of letting fans know when new issues are coming out (in case they forget to check Diamond or they don't visit their local comic shop weekly), would you mention it in a future edition of "Etched in Stone"? I know it's too late for something like this to go in #8 or BG #2, but maybe it's a possibility for #9, BG#3, or #10. I figure this would be a good idea since the comic frequently gets delayed due to Disney's long approval processes, and some fans might intend to buy it, but are not aware that it's coming out."

Is this a good idea guys?
Rebel
posted @ Wed, Mar 12, 2008 1:21:12 am EDT from 216.45.251.211

Alicia - nobody is suggesting skipping meals to buy comics. There are other things to do.

My two hypothetical questions weren't/aren't about scaring people. Greg's comments about the license renewal doesn't mean we don't need to attract more readers/help people keep with new releases of the comic. As far as the licensing fee goes, I'm fairly certain that the licensing fee more than covers all of Disney's costs to 'inspect/approve' their intellectual property. The question remains is the ratio of the licensing fee to Disney's costs to 'approve' the comic high enough for whatever standard they use. Hopefully, it costs significantly less than 10%-25% of the licensing fee to approve the comics, which makes it a good investment. On the other hand, if the Disney's cost of the approval process is 90+% or more of the licensing fee, it may not be a good financial decision on Disney's part.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Wed, Mar 12, 2008 12:54:33 am EDT from 98.20.245.235

well with the econome doing bad all sale in comice books will all go down. remeber people are losing ther homes and cars. they need to save up very doller they can and also jobs are not looking to good ether. i been wating to buy the comic books so bad But i cant i need to save. my hours have been cute back really bad. because no one is buying. i only go to town when i have school othere then that i stay home or go to work. the good thing my work is very close. thats one good thing because i dont spend alout on gas.;-) so think of it this way.wich to u need more... food in your tummy a place to sleep, Or comice books. well i choise a place to sleep and food in my tummy, any day.
alicia
I WILL NEVER GET SICK OF GARGOYLES :-)
posted @ Tue, Mar 11, 2008 11:47:45 pm EDT from 75.6.143.45

Makes me wonder if Greg will put a Spider-Man reference in, similar to his W.I.T.C.H. reference in Bad Guys. Maybe something like a nerdish kids with brown hair spotting the Gargoyles.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Tue, Mar 11, 2008 11:45:30 pm EDT from 71.115.192.199

I wonder which neighborhoods in Manhattan Goliath and his clan regularly patrol.
Michael Ejercito - [mejercit at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Tue, Mar 11, 2008 11:31:42 pm EDT from 75.142.107.43

Besides, we did have the T-Shirt come out of the blue. Which reminds me, I have to see if they got more of my size. I can't speak for other locations, but the Hot Topic at my mall has been selling them pretty rapidly.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"And April is summer-bound, and February's blue. And no one stops to see the colors." -Ian Anderson ("March the Mad Scientist")
posted @ Tue, Mar 11, 2008 8:21:01 pm EDT from 71.62.198.251

GregX> I can assure you I was not complaining or making any critical comments about Disney. I merely said if the licensing alone brings them profit and SLG are willing to renew it, then there's a good chance for it to continue.

As for getting the franchise more attention, well it's a minor idea, but if anyone here is a member of tv.com, I'd suggest making a series review in the Gargoyles section (And rating as high as you think it should be rated). The high rating would help for it to go up in the Top 20 animated shows, with the reviews giving a viewer an idea of why the series is worth watching.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Tue, Mar 11, 2008 8:19:05 pm EDT from 71.115.192.199

Greg B> Believe me, I am totally in agreement with you that talk about Disney wanting to kill "Gargoyles" because they hate it so much is just silly. Now saying that the "Gargoyles" license is free money for Disney is a bit of an exaggeration. We know that they do at least have to have someone review and approve the comic and even if we think that this person must be doing it for free given how long it takes, that's probably not the case. Now I imagine that neither that nor any other jobs related to the comic would be gone if the comic ceased to be. But there still is the possibility that Disney . I think the problem is if someone at Disney gets the idea that "Gargoyles" could be making more money. Now I cannot explain why a company might decide to ask for a licensing fee someone can't afford and instead end up making no money, but if it really was as simple as "you pat us and we do nothing but check to make sure the thing you make is up to standard", then we'd all be talking about that exciting Goliath statue that was coming out. I'm actually fairly optimistic that Disney will allow SLG to renew the license, unless they had really unrealistic expectations about what the SLG deal was going to do and consider the whole venture a wash. But yes, the idea that Disney is actively trying to kill "Gargoyles" is a non-starter.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Tue, Mar 11, 2008 7:57:55 pm EDT from 209.6.248.33

Okay, will you all please stop with these "oh Disney is going to do this, Disney is going to do that, all to kill the comic book" posts? It's nothing but paranoia, and trust me, Disney doesn't take an interest like that.

They already made their profit from the comic, the licensing fee. As far as they are concerned, it's free money. They don't have to lift a finger, and the collect on the licensing fee.

There is no logic in making an offer designed for SLG to refuse. None. Just because the gargoyles are being persecuted in the comic book, doesn't mean the franchise itself is being persecuted.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Is that not the perfect visual image of life and death? A fish flapping on the carpet, and a fish not flapping on the carpet." - Bill AKA Snake Charmer
posted @ Tue, Mar 11, 2008 7:16:40 pm EDT from 75.56.245.4

Or, alternately, Disney might decide to raise the license fee in the hopes of discouraging SLG from renewal, so that the comic would come to an end, they could say "We tried to bring it back and failed, so there's no point in doing so again", and they'd be rid of a property that I suspect many of them find embarrassing.

(I don't think they'd seriously do it for that reason, but I couldn't resist mentioning that notion here.)

But I do hope that we get Gargoyles #8 soon. I want to read the rest of the Stone of Destiny story (and see how far into its history Shari will get by the end of the next issue).
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Tue, Mar 11, 2008 7:08:58 pm EDT from 4.244.208.241

Demonskrye> I was thinking of Neil Gaiman as well. I wonder if he's seen the show.
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth_dragon at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Tue, Mar 11, 2008 6:29:38 pm EDT from 24.98.74.35

dph> I agree that option #1 is highly unlikely. Disney does not have their own comics publishing arm anymore. The classic Disney comics with Mickey, Donald, Scrooge, etc. are published by Gemstone and anything else is licensed out individually. I doubt Gemstone wants to do "Gargoyles" as they don't publish anything else like it. It's probably SLG or nothing. Option #2 is, unfortunately, far more of a possibility. Hopefully the people at Disney responsible for setting these fees will realize that it's not a matter or getting the same amount of money or more money, but of getting the same amount of money or no money. But if Disney feels their profits on the comic are not really worth it, they may try making SLG an offer they're meant to refuse.

I for one would not particularly want to see a Disney representative at a Gathering, largely because I've been at conventions where fans have taken out their frustrations for an issue with the property on some poor person who really doesn't deserve their ire and more than likely the person Disney sent wouldn't have any real connection with the approvals process.

Intro Writers> Well, someone not directly involved with "Gargoyles" who would be a big enough name to draw in new readers is a bit tougher, but you may be right. Linda Medley would probably like the comic, but I don't think she's well known enough. Neil Gaiman would be great but I'd imagine he's super hard to get.I wonder if there's anyone else Greg knows in the comics industry who'd be appropriate, as that seems to be the easiest way to get a person to write an intro for your book.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Tue, Mar 11, 2008 5:07:29 pm EDT from 209.6.248.33

I'm going to try for some optimism here (I can see all off you looking at me in a skeptical manner, btw).

Wouldn't Diseny renew it sales or not? From what I heard, they get most of the money from just loaning the license out, correct? And as said, Dan's still interested in renewing the comic.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Tue, Mar 11, 2008 4:54:38 pm EDT from 71.115.192.199

I don't want to be a downer but I do have some hypothetical questions: 1)Suppose Disney decides against renewal because they want to release the comic themselves. Would that action have the result of a new artist learning curve because the current artists can't/won't be employed by Disney? 2)Suppose Disney decides to raise the renewal costs to the point where slg has to significantly increase sales or increase price to break even. What then? I doubt the 1st option is a possibility, but the 2nd one is a real possibility as Disney attempts to squeeze extra revenue every way it can.

If there's one panel I would love to see at the gathering, it's somebody from the Disney approval department explaining what all it takes to get the comic approved. Unfortunately, said representative would probably need body guards to keep the less self-controlled members of the fandom from going crazy.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Tue, Mar 11, 2008 3:48:03 pm EDT from 98.20.245.235

Maybe Keith David? He's a really big name, and apparently he's attended several Gatherings. I bet he'd be willing/glad to do the introduction.

But, is Greg looking for suggestions like this? I'm pretty sure he could have come up with Keith David or Jonathan Frakes on his own. I'm betting he's looking for someone who was not actively involved in making Gargoyles but still really appreciated it, and is a fairly big name (someone like Pini).
Rebel
posted @ Tue, Mar 11, 2008 3:36:04 pm EDT from 24.227.200.138

Approvals and Delays> I'm pretty sure I've said this before: we are probably never going to know what Disney's process for approving "Gargoyles" is. We don't know whose job it is, how many other projects that person might have on his or her plate, what is involved in the approval process, how much red tape and paperwork is involved in the approval process, how this person's superiors tell him or her to prioritize the comic, how much turnover their is in the job, or even how many people need to sign off on the comic, all of which could influence the time it takes to get the comic approved. Yes, it is extremely frustrating that it seems to take so long, especially for fans who are trying to get people interested in reading the comic, and it's fine to vent now and then. But we don't really know what's going on and there's nothing whatsoever we can do about it.

"Ramping up production" is really not an option at this point. To get the comic four months ahead, you'd either have to produce issues four time faster until the book was sufficiently ahead or you'd have to not put out any comics until four issues were ready to go. A big speed up in production is not going to happen. As other people have mentioned, many of the people involved with the book have other things occupying their time and SLG does not have the money to pay four times as many people to work on the book. As for putting the book on hiatus to get four issues done, that could take even longer than four months and would kind of defeat the purpose of getting the book ahead of schedule by keeping it off the shelves and allowing more readers to forget about it and move on. If it was just as simple as "work faster" I'm sure everyone involved would be doing that already. But it's not.

Ask Greg> I hope Disney is at least happy enough with the money they're getting to renew the "Gargoyles" license. That would at least be one less thing to worry about.

Greg's asking about ideas for someone to write the intro to the second trade paperback. I'd suggest Michael Reaves or one of the voice actors who was also on "Star Trek". (I'm leaning towards Jonathan Frakes.) Anyone else have an idea?

I find it almost amusing to think that Goliath was so completely distracted over his feelings for Elisa and his attempt to date Delilah that he didn't even notice Lex's costume enough to be disturbed by it.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Tue, Mar 11, 2008 3:08:15 pm EDT from 209.6.248.33

Thanks Rebel-that's pretty much how I feel exactly. It's like putting Gargs up against power rangers. We knew it couldn't beat it, but despite what we knew, what could we do about it? I so want the comic to succeed-but it doesn't stand a hope in hell if they can't get the damn thing out on a regular basis. Sorry, but that point can't be argued. The only people that will buy it regardless when it comes out are people like us. *harmonizes in Rebel's sigh*
Wingless
posted @ Tue, Mar 11, 2008 2:51:54 pm EDT from 99.245.254.123

In regards to the delays, I agree with Wingless. I'll continue to buy the comics and do what I can to spread the word regardless, but the delays are SOO frustrating. Right now I feel exasperated, and exasperation doesn't help at all when you're trying to get people excited about something.

My sentiments can be summed up in one word: *sigh*

I just hope somebody figures out some way to get these things out faster. It would be incredibly painful if, after over ten years out of production, Gargoyles comes back, only to be unable to thrive because of delays.
Rebel
posted @ Tue, Mar 11, 2008 2:25:21 pm EDT from 24.227.200.138

http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=6015

In an article on the above site, artist Timothy Green II is quoted saying, "Green didn't mind being an artist on a licensed book where most of the design work has already been done. The main difference in working on a licensed book is that you have to refer to someone else's designs and there is a more strict approval process," Green explained. "As well, there's more attention paid to an already established character like Aeon and whoever is the artist benefits from that.""

Unfortunately, he doesn't go into detail on what "strict approval process" means I would assume that since Disney is a licensed book is also has a strict approval process.

Here's a little FICTIONAL story on how the process MIGHT work.

March 3rd, Disney's mailroom receives the comic and other documentation that goes along with it. The mailroom sorts it and deliver's it to the approver's desk a few hours later, but doesn't open it until the next day.

March 4th, the approver opens it and all his other mail, and begins to prioritize it with other things that need approval. He sits down with his manager to confirm or deny his choices of priority of what happens to be on his plate.

March 5th, approver calls in sick and is sick for the rest of the week.

March 10th, approver returns to work, and begins to go through the high priority items. This takes him the entire week to do.

March 17th, approver begins to work on Gargoyles. Suddenly he gets something high priority from his manager directly from the executives. He does his work, attends meetings and gets it done and approved by March 19th. He gets back to Gargoyles and sets up a meeting for next week.

March 24, the Gargoyles meeting is schedule for the next day since someone who was supposed to be in the meeting is not there for he/she took a vacation day for Easter Monday.

March 25, meeting takes place, approver gets everything approved and ready to go, the approved comic is sent to SLG for printing.

March 27, SLG receives comic, sets up printer to begin printing, runs out of ink, and waits for more ink to be delivered by Staples -- comics are completed on March 28th and sent to Diamond.

March 31, Diamond sets up shipping orders and the comic is received by the distributors on April 2nd.

So that's business. You can try to speed it up but that costs money, money that Disney isn't going to pay because the process works for them now, whatever that process may be in real life, and that is how it's going to stay. The only thing that can change is the Gargoyles priority hierarchy, but that doesn't appear to be changing anytime soon either.
(The Gargoyles Pulse - updated Mondays)
Anthony Tini
posted @ Tue, Mar 11, 2008 1:02:27 pm EDT from 159.240.11.254

Lumpmoose - The only time things were 'ramped' up is when things were way behind. Right now, there is no way to speed things up. Greg's busy with a full-time job - the new Spiderman series. Plus DC hired him to write a 6 issue comic series. Even if Greg had the extra man-power, the fact is there's not enough work to go around. Greg isn't making enough money where he can hire another person to help with script writing. We want is close to what we have right now. Different issues of the comic at different stages and by the time the current one finishes the late stage (final approval), another comic is ready to start the 1st stage beyond scripting. We want one comic at every stage to keep an orderly flow. It's like an assembly line.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Tue, Mar 11, 2008 12:53:32 pm EDT from 98.20.237.165

I haven't been here for a couple of months because of this discussion and the reactions to it. We know there is blame involved - and I don't put it on Greg W here. My problem has always been how this franchise is supposed to grow beyond us fans if we can't get th bloody thing out on a regular basis. What I got so upset about is how it seems to be always put on us to promot it - and then we get let down and have to start over when they don't get the thing out on time. Sorry, I'll always support Gargoyles but I'm soo tired of being told to pick up the pieces when the thing is delayed. If i sound miffed-I am. We all should be. We have the series back in comic form and now it's being driven into the ground because of the delays. As the fans, we're powerless in this situation. We simply have to sit down and take what comes. We can't hurry things up and if the comic dies, it dies and we can't do anything about that either(despite thinking we can).
I want the comic to have a long healthy run - we all do. But if the powers that be don't get their collective acts together, it won't last through issue 12 - because people are going to forget/give up on it except for the die hard fans. I await your flaiming.

To quote Battle Beast - That's All I will Say.
Wingless
posted @ Tue, Mar 11, 2008 12:38:14 pm EDT from 99.245.254.123

"Each issue gets sent to Disney as soon as soon as it is finished. Have you read Ask Greg at all recently? It's usually comic A is at the last approval process, comic B is being finished, Comic C was just handed to the artists to start work on, and Comic D is scripted"

Yes, I recall that discussion. I'm just saying that by ramping up production, SLG could beat the approval department's lead time. I know Greg's busy, SLG's tiny and poor, yadda yadda yadda. But despite appearances, Disney is not the grand arbiter of the fate of the Gargoyles comic. It's just a matter of getting ahead of the curve. Right now, it feels very skin-of-their-teeth.
Lumpmoose - [lumpmoose at googles dot email dot service]
posted @ Tue, Mar 11, 2008 12:11:29 pm EDT from 128.101.32.234

Phoenician> Electro did indeed appear in one of the later seasons of the nineties Spider-Man cartoon, where he was re-imagined as the son of the Red Skull and living Nazi super-weapon. Yeah, I didn't get it either.
Algernon
"You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with 'til you understand who's in ruttin' command here" -Jayne Cobb
posted @ Tue, Mar 11, 2008 12:06:14 pm EDT from 149.157.1.180

Lumpmoose - <Has anyone asked Greg why they don't just produce, say, 4 comics ahead of time?> Each issue gets sent to Disney as soon as soon as it is finished. Have you read Ask Greg at all recently? It's usually comic A is at the last approval process, comic B is being finished, Comic C was just handed to the artists to start work on, and Comic D is scripted. (Yes, that's not exactly what goes on, but a rough description) To keep the flow going, Greg has to be scripting 3-4 issues ahead of the one currently waiting to be approved. Don't forget that Greg's day job is working on Spiderman right now. When Greg finishes scripting gargoyles issue #10, he goes to scripting Red Tornado issue #2, **then** he goes to scripting Bad Guys issue #5. Assumedly, after he finishes scripting Bad Guys issue #5, he goes back to scripting Red Tornado issue #3.

Not to jinx anything, but has anyone read Ask Greg today? http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=10295 We have some news about the renewal: 1. Dan has told me he'd like to renew it. He was, as of WonderCon, waiting on Disney to respond.

I don't think this means we should take things for granted, but it sounds promising.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Tue, Mar 11, 2008 11:29:38 am EDT from 98.20.237.165

Has anyone asked Greg why they don't just produce, say, 4 comics ahead of time? Disney's approval times are long, but I don't think they're getting longer. If Disney had 4 months to approve a comic, it would no longer be a problem. SLG could have a stash of completed comics and release them at their leisure on an actual planned release date. I mean Greg rambled on February 11, "Issue #8 is complete. Late last week it was sent to Disney AND the printer, so that the moment the former approves it, the latter can send it to press." If issue 8 had a January or February release date, why wasn't it sent to Disney December 11? I mean, we're all so quick to blame Disney, but they did approve the comic in less than a month. If Greg took the next 4 Gargoyles and Bad Guys comics, and gave them to 4 different pencilers (he's already used 4 so far) to jumpstart the production process early, this problem would be solved in a couple months. I know it'd take a large advance from SLG to produce so many at once, but it'd be a one time fee. Once Greg is 4 months ahead, he could go back to the normal production cycle. And I'm sure a consistent release date would give a jolt to the sales. I know Greg is insanely busy, but his writing of the comic is only one small part of the apparent Herculean effort to get these comics to print. I think working ahead is the only answer.

Additionally, that would buffer against Disney ever *not* approving an issue. Could you imagine what kind of disaster it would cause if Disney didn't approve an issue and a panel or 3 had to be changed? It'd probably push back the release 2-3 months. If we ever get into the death of characters or Lexington's mate, waiting for Disney's approval will become more rocky.
Lumpmoose - [lumpmoose at googles dot email dot service]
posted @ Tue, Mar 11, 2008 10:54:14 am EDT from 128.101.32.234

IT doesn't take ANYONE ONE MONTH to read an issue of a comic book, does it?

GREG B> you said yourself that the issue was given to disney about one month ago. Ergo, it take MAYBE 30 minutes to read the issue, and ANOTHER 30 min to go over it again. ONE DAY. Why then, does it take so long for the issue to come out? Does Disney just throw it on the pile and get to it when they want to? they should set priorities. (Here me out first.) Things that will take little time to aproove should be done first. Things that will take A LONG TIME should be given more time. But if Mr. Greenlight has three Comics come in one day 1, he could EASILY breeze through them and get to Hanna Montana the next day and give it his due. Thus, he gets a lot more done. If he does Montana first, it may take a couple of days, and then our Gargoyles sits on the pile and we wait. See?

*SIGH* I am jsut as impatient as you all are.

I know they aren't malicious to us, and Gargoyles, but you gotta wonder about these delays...
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Tue, Mar 11, 2008 2:43:48 am EDT from 75.156.180.163

*~*Spoilerish*~*

Overall, I LOVED both of the episodes of The Spectacular Spiderman.

My only complaint is in regards to the character design of some of the characters...not that the designs are bad, it's just that they look too much like other characters.

When I first saw Sally, I thought she looked exactly like Gwen Stacy, and vice versa, aside from the different outfits.

Same with Eddie Brock and Flash. They're more different from each other than Sally and Gwen are, but they are both still big hulking blonde dudes, and they look a lot alike.

It wasn't a problem for me to tell all of these characters apart. Then again, I'm an adult. I think younger kids might get these characters confused sometimes.
Rebel
posted @ Tue, Mar 11, 2008 1:20:56 am EDT from 24.227.200.138

I noticed a couple of you are starting to get tired of waiting for Gargoyles #8 and BG #2 to be released...

Believe me, I am too...

It's just a shame that Gargoyles isn't a popular property as others are. It feels like properties that aren't so popular don't get much attention at Disney. Then again, I don't really have much to go on that would support such a statement.

If I had a better understanding of the processes that are in place regarding the publication of Gargoyles I'd probably have a more informed statement...

Speaking of processes... Has anyone looked into the process of how Gargoyles gets published from start to finish? Some time ago, I tried to look up that type of information, but I couldn't find anything... :(
The One Known As Mochi - [shogi dot keima dot 08 at gmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>T.T)> Tired...
posted @ Tue, Mar 11, 2008 1:17:32 am EDT from 72.199.225.9

Oh, dang it -- I forgot --

*****!!!!!SPOILERS BELOW!!!!!*****
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Tue, Mar 11, 2008 12:51:38 am EDT from 157.242.215.116

Here are some random thoughts for Saturday's episodes of Spiderman.

I must admit that my only exposure to Spidey thus far has been the 90's incarnation as well as the three feature films . . . I've never had the chance to delve into Peter's comic origins.

That said, some thoughts:

- Love seeing the tributes to Hudson and Broadway. Shame about the Broadway statue though. Don't the folks in Spidey's world know how much us fans would pay for a collectible Gargoyles statue?? :P

- Greg really is a weaver of great stories, and that can be seen with all the set-up of stories to come. We meet the characters of the Green Goblin, the Lizard, Venom, and (from what I've gathered in the CR) other Spidey antagonists that I never knew about. And though I vaguely knew about the Vulture and Electro (was Electro even in the 90's version? I can't remember . . .), I still loved these two episodes -- both characters had amazing lines.

- I'm totally sympathetic for Peter with his cell phone constantly ringing during his fights, and I have no good reason why. It's not like I've been webslinging in New York City fighting crime, right?

- Speaking of web-slinging, I found it interesting that Peter's using web-cartridges, instead of having spinners. I know the movies had Peter with spinners, and the 90's show had the web-cartridges.

- I also loved Peter ripping his costume. I think my favorite part of the films was just how much his suit got torn-up in his final battles, so that little moment gave me a chuckle as well.

- I could have sworn that the classic "bad-guy-crashing-into-fellow-bad-guy" trick from Gargoyles was going to be used in one of the aerial flights, but I can't remember if it actually happened or not. I don't think it did, but I really got the impression that it was going to happen. Maybe it was because Peter was on Vulture's back that triggered the thought.

- Love the Banana Cream Pie scene.

- I really love this version of J. Jonah Jameson. While I loved him in both the 90's cartoon and the films, my memory of him is that "His bark is worse than his bite, but his bark is still totally see-through." As of Spiderman 3, he was pretty much "cute." But Saturday was the first time I actually got scared from him. Was it the voice actor, the words he said, or just the animation of Jameson ripping one on Peter? Not totally sure -- but I know my eyes went as big as Peter's.
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Tue, Mar 11, 2008 12:50:45 am EDT from 157.242.215.116

Siren> I agree. These delays are getting tiring.

Alma> "A Gathering? In Chicago?? This summer???? Ohhhhh awesome!! What are the gatherings about??"

It's a general convention, with panels, guests, a costume show, etc. If you want more info, click on the 'Gathering of the Gargoyles Convention' link in the sidebar here.

"I mean, do you like watch the episodes and discuss them?"

We can and often do.

"I'd love to go but sadly, I'm still a student, haha, well I'm still in college but I've got one year to go and then I'm done."

Well, then that just means you'd be open to attend the Gathering in 2009, wherever that'll be, if you choose to. Frankly, if you can, please do. The more attendees the better.

"I could then a job and start saving money so that i can travel. Oh and I have to do a bit of summer school so that i can finish early."

There you go. :)

"What's the exact date?"

This year's is June 23rd-26th, I think. But like I said, check out the Gathering site in the Station 8 sidebar.

"It'd be awesome if you'd took some pictures of the Gathering and sent them to me."

Chances are good my boyfriend and I will take pictures again this year, like we did at the last Gathering and at the one before that. If you want pictures, I'll email them to you. Sound good?

"Ooops, is that asking too much? So, you teach?"

*blinks* No. And no.

"GARGOYLES FOREVER! KEEP THE FLAME ALIVE PEOPLE!!!!"

Hear, hear!
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Mon, Mar 10, 2008 11:40:33 pm EDT from 76.247.79.197

I am also tired of waiting. I'll wait...what else can I do...but I really wish they would just green light the damn thing.

In other news I bought the collection one at Mega-Con. Its very nice. The introduction was so beautifully written. I love it!
Siren
Don't knock on Death's door. Ring his doorbell and run, he hates that.
posted @ Mon, Mar 10, 2008 10:57:57 pm EDT from 65.33.45.29

oh and greetings from Mexico everyone!!!!
Alma - [azzanea at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Mon, Mar 10, 2008 10:53:40 pm EDT from 189.161.96.238

King Cobra:
A Gathering? In Chicago?? This summer???? Ohhhhh awesome!! What are the gatherings about?? I mean, do you like watch the episodes and discuss them? I'd love to go but sadly, I'm still a student, haha, well I'm still in college but I've got one year to go and then I'm done. I could then a job and start saving money so that i can travel. Oh and I have to do a bit of summer school so that i can finish early. What's the exact date? It'd be awesome if you'd took some pictures of the Gathering and sent them to me. Ooops, is that asking too much? So, you teach?
GARGOYLES FOREVER! KEEP THE FLAME ALIVE PEOPLE!!!!
Alma - [azzanea at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Mon, Mar 10, 2008 10:51:48 pm EDT from 189.161.96.238

Anthony - I think you should move bg issue #3 to be released before gargoyles issue #9 due to Greg's comments: "Bad Guys #3 is fully penciled and inked. It's being finished and lettered.

Gargoyles #9 and Bad Guys #4 are both being pencilled now. "
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Mon, Mar 10, 2008 7:29:30 pm EDT from 98.20.237.165

According to Greg Weisman, Bad Guys issue #2 is at Disney's office. If past patterns hold true, doesn't that make a release date April 16th or sooner for bg issue #2 probable?
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Mon, Mar 10, 2008 7:25:52 pm EDT from 98.20.237.165

When dealing with independent reviews, what unfortunately tends to happen is the procrastination expands to fill the available space. Adding another two weeks on the front end by compressing your production schedule will only make the review get done faster if you've mislead the reviewer as to the actual deadline. Otherwise, you've just given them the gift of two more weeks to drag their heels.

109 days left until The Gathering 2008 in Chicago, Illinois!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Mon, Mar 10, 2008 5:38:34 pm EDT from 76.205.104.32

I don't think Disney is making any sort of malicious effort to delay the comics. I think it's just not a high priority for them--and rightfully so, because (from their POV) it's NOT a big money-maker and they are pretty busy with other properties. I think the bigger issue is that somehow the artistic process has just got to get faster...if you know it'll be, say, 6 weeks between when the comic is submitted to Disney for approval and when it hits the stands, you need to work with that 6 week timeframe to get things out on time. I don't know enough to say how that would be done, but that's pretty much the only viable solution at this point. At least the comic is only three months late at this point, it's actually becoming standard to have a one-month delay. Since the wait for #4 the main title hasn't been badly delayed at all. BAD GUYS in some ways presents a bigger problem, because one of the main reasons for releasing it was to give fans a monthly dose of GARGOYLES, but instead it's really exacerbating the lateness problem.

It's also troubling that the titles have been "caught up" but keep falling behind. Something, somewhere, has got to get faster.
Meg
posted @ Mon, Mar 10, 2008 5:01:51 pm EDT from 138.16.28.211

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