Comment Room Archive : Gargoyles : Station Eight

WARNING: SSM SPOILERS.

Harry's drinking of the formula serving as a red herring makes sense. If Harry Osborn were the Green Goblin, he would probably have gone after Kenny instead of the Big Man. Plus, we've already seen what a ruthless son of a bitch Norman Osborn is. I wouldn't put it past him to wipe out a room full of innocent people just to take out one man. On a side note, I love the sound effects for the pumpkin bomb explosions. Like sick, mutilated laughter. Very appropriate. I also love how he's got the charged gloves again, something I missed from the movie.

And Steve Blum was doing the voice of the Goblin? I'm about as shocked as I was when I first found out Mark Hamill voiced the Joker. He was fantastic, though. Willem Dafoe is high on my list of greatest living actors, but if I had to choose, I'd go with the way the Goblin is portrayed in this series. Norman's attitude on this show, as conveyed by Blum and Rachins, is fantastic. He had me from the first episode, with the way he reacted to the Vulture threatening his life. Overall, the voice cast for this show has been very impressive. The only really good voice I remember from the 1990s cartoon was Ed Asner as Jonah Jameson, and even that wasn't a perfect fit.

Speaking of Jonah, I like the relationship between him and his son in this cartoon. And it was especially amusing the way he was forced to swallow his pride at the end.

I wonder just how long Harry's been swiping from his father's "medicine cabinet." Could this be one of the reasons he made the team? I suddenly have one of those commercials playing in my mind where drug dealers talk about how kids today can get high off medicines at home. But my mind is a twisted place. However, there is a guy serving cotton candy in it. And he shares my love of Yes. Anyhoo, moving on...

I also found that look we got from Eddie Brock to be interesting. It looks like he and Peter might have words on a future episode. I'm still trying to figure this one out. This incarnation of Eddie is the best I've seen, but we still haven't seen much to hint at his eventual fate. Looks like we have possible tension between him and Peter, but that's about it. I really hope Greg is able to make Venom actually work.

Ah, well. I can be patient. Right now, I'm looking forward to seeing more of Green Goblin.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"I do not apologize, old man!" -Norman Osborn ("Spectacular Spider-Man").
posted @ Sat, Apr 26, 2008 10:21:02 pm EDT from 76.123.52.7

Greg B> I look through other accounts frequently as it does result in finding some good videos. Sorry if I creeped you out.
Antiyonder
posted @ Sat, Apr 26, 2008 9:27:06 pm EDT from 74.61.186.169

Antiyonder> Dude, you're checking my YouTube subscriptions... you're creeping me out.

Algernon> I loved Dafoe's Goblin, but for me he didn't quite nail the character I always envisioned in my head.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Is that not the perfect visual image of life and death? A fish flapping on the carpet, and a fish not flapping on the carpet." - Bill AKA Snake Charmer
posted @ Sat, Apr 26, 2008 9:13:21 pm EDT from 75.56.245.4

Algernon: Yep, William did a pretty good job portraying The Green Ranger (If anyone here's seen I'm A Marvel/I'm A DC you'll get the reference, and I believe GregX has subscribed to it as well).
Antiyonder
posted @ Sat, Apr 26, 2008 9:05:50 pm EDT from 74.61.186.169

Greg B> No love for William Defoe's Gobby? I though he did a smashing job when they weren't making him hide behind that goofy mask.
Algernon
"Nobody can say I wasn't a perfect father, do you hear..? Nobody !" - Norman Osborn
posted @ Sat, Apr 26, 2008 8:37:58 pm EDT from 86.41.202.49

Of course, one problem might be that there are not really any available female gargoyles among the Manhattan Clan to nurse the hatchlings when they hatch in 1998. Sure, there will be Katana, but no one knows about her yet and I think Angela would probably be too young (as would Coco should she join the Clan). Anyway, I don't think it's going to happen, but it was an interesting thought, I thought.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Sat, Apr 26, 2008 8:17:42 pm EDT from 70.237.249.216

Rebel>I bet the London Clan would totally be willing to give eggs to other clans. With the gargoyle community outlook, it's not a big stretch for them to see the Manhattan Clan as a sister clan and Angela, Broadway et al brother/sister rookery parents--and unlike with humans, no couple would feel slighted because THEIR egg is getting taken away. In contrast, I think they'd be thrilled to be able to help other clans out and not have to restrain their older, feistier females anymore. ;)
Meg
posted @ Sat, Apr 26, 2008 8:11:52 pm EDT from 138.16.28.211

SPECTACULAR SPIDER-SPOILERS

You know the drill. Didn't see the newest episode, don't look.

Not a whole lot to add to what other people have said. Another good episode, with great animation on everything from the fight with the Goblin to awkward teenage dancing. Mu husband believes that the DJ at the prom is Mr. Sean "Cheeks" Galloway himself. I like how Mary Jane is coming along; he mention of Midtown's theater program is a nice hint at her interests. I hope we get to see more of her individual personality, so it becomes clear that the two women interested in Peter are very different people. We're starting to get that, but I want to see an even more pronounce contrast.

Greg B> Nice catch on the #994. I guess when Greg needs a 3-4 digit number, we know where he's going to get it from. I agree with your assessment of the voice acting in general and Steve Blum in particular, except that I'd hesitate to say his Goblin complete blows away the previous animated Gobbys and I'd add Susan Blu to the list of the best voice directors in the business. Incidentally, I am not much of an anime fan, but "Cowboy Bebop" is not only an anime I love dearly, but also an anime I love watching with the dub, which is extremely rare.

I don't know how the "Randy" lines made it past S&P either. And maybe this has changed, but if I remember the "What's Censorable With This Picture?" drawing from "Batman Animated" correctly, defenestration itself used to be a big no-no.

Todd> Between today's episode and the nod to the movie in the previous episode where he protects Peter's identity, I'd say Jonah is doing quite well for himself in this series. His son has pretty much always been portrayed as a really good guy, but I'm pleasantly surprised by the glimpses we're getting of Jonah's integrity and softer side. In some of the early Lee/Ditko issues, ol' JJJ was so outright nasty and amoral that he bordered on outright villainy. So in this case, I'm glad that Greg and the writers are pulling from a few other source and their own creativity.

I'm also looking forward to the next episode. Given his portrayal in today's episode, I wonder if part of the reason that Otto goes for the two extra sets of limb is because his world is becoming an increasingly scary place and he just doesn't want to be scared anymore.

Oh, one thing I forgot: no "smart Peter figures out bad guy's one weakness", and just as I was starting to worry about it becoming a show cliche. Nice!
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Sat, Apr 26, 2008 7:32:47 pm EDT from 209.6.248.33

* SPOILERS FOR "THE SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN"

I've got to thank you, Bishansky, for spotting the label on the vial that Harry was drinking out of. I hadn't even seen it. (That's two 994 references from Greg in two months - the other was Vinnie's flight number in "Gargoyles" #8. You just know he's having fun with it.) I'm curious about the significance of that vial, incidentally.

I forgot if anyone's brought it up, but we also get to see some of J. Jonah Jameson's better side (for a change) here; he's clearly proud of his son (and justifiably so). I was especially impressed with the younger Jameson after he realized that the Green Goblin had placed the bomb on the chandelier and alerted Spidey.

Did Keith David go back to doing the Big Man/Tombstone's voice? I thought it sounded more like his this time around.

Great episode. And I'm looking forward to seeing the next one, with Dr. Octopus (all the more so to see how Octavius goes from the meek, timid scientist he's been up till now to relentless super-villain).

* SPOILERS END *
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Sat, Apr 26, 2008 6:35:43 pm EDT from 4.244.209.253

I guess so. It would be really cool if they were willing to part with a few eggs from their current rookery. Even if it was only 2 or 3, that would still be awesome, and it would give Tachi some brothers and sisters to grow up with (not that any of them know that yet, but still).
Rebel
posted @ Sat, Apr 26, 2008 6:27:19 pm EDT from 216.45.251.210

Rebel> I was going to respond to that, but it looks like you figured out where I was going on your own.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Sat, Apr 26, 2008 6:19:47 pm EDT from 70.237.249.216

Matt > I doubt the London clan would want to give away any of the eggs in its current rookery, since they'll need those eggs to make sure their numbers stay stable.

But, I wouldn't be surprised if, in the next rookery, they go ahead and let all the females breed on their third heat, and then give 1/3rd of the eggs away to the Manhattan clan or other clans. (Though I guess if they did start letting their females breed on all three heats in future mating seasons, then they could afford to lose a few eggs from their current rookery).
Rebel
posted @ Sat, Apr 26, 2008 6:15:28 pm EDT from 216.45.251.210

Random Thought> Okay, Greg spends uses a whole page of "Rock & Roll" talking about the London Clan's overpopulation and eggs and such. And since this is Clan-Building, what if a few of the eggs are taken back to the Manhattan Clan, perhaps with Constance and Staghart? I don't think it'll happen, but it is a possibility. That'd mean there would be at least a few eggs in the Manhattan Clan's 1998 rookery, not just Tachi.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Sat, Apr 26, 2008 5:48:44 pm EDT from 70.237.249.216

Robby> Thanks for putting up the info. Gives a better picture of what goes on.

"Catalysts"> This was a fun episode, and up there with one of my favs so far. I enjoyed how they presented Mary Jane. She clearly likes Peter but isn't head over heels for him; when he leaves she happily dances with other guys. I love how she identified, and apparently, for a geek in a rather large school, Peter is pretty well known.

I gotta feel for Brock. Gotta feel for Gwen. Not so much Flash. :P

The Green Goblin was great. I admit, haven't read too much with him actually in it prior to this, so it may have helped to keep me unbiased. That said, it was so fun to watch him. Man, it's a subtle part of his design, but the eyes are just beady enough to accentuate the craziness of the character. And he is the closest to a real threat other than Tombstone for Spidey. Surprised to see Harry with the formula, but I don't think he's the Goblin either. Too much of a coincidence, canon history aside. But it is an interesting ripple. I honestly think Harry knows more than he's letting on.
Asatira
posted @ Sat, Apr 26, 2008 5:02:46 pm EDT from 97.82.36.198

Lumpmoose> I seem to recall that either Greg or Dan Vado had told us that Slave Labor Graphics had moved to renew the license and now it was just a matter of Disney saying yes. The only reasons I could think of for Disney declining the offer are if they feel the comic could do better with a different publisher (unlikely, because I doubt anyone else with even as high a profile as SLG is interested) or if they feel that the person who checks and approves the comics could be spending that time on something more lucrative (which is possible). Assuming neither of those is the case, I'd guess Disney would OK the renewal.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Sat, Apr 26, 2008 2:56:15 pm EDT from 209.6.248.33

"Catalysts" marks the first real appearance of my favorite Spider-Man villain, the Green Goblin. So, needless to say, I've been anticipating this one for a long time, and it did not disappoint.

I loved the Green Goblin. Cheeks' design looked great, like an updated version of Ditko's design that took out all the hokey aspects of it. I love the Goblin, but even I'll admit that Ditko's design was always very hokey looking. Steve Blum just nailed that voice. His cackle was as good as Mark Hamill's Joker cackle.

I think I'll take this moment to compliment the casting and voice direction on this series. Jamie Thomason is a genius. He, along with Andrea Romano, are the two best voice directors in the business. I'm loving what I've been hearing. Vanessa Marshall was terrific as Mary Jane. Very sexy voice. And I've been a fan of Steve Blum since I first saw "Cowboy Bebop" six years ago. As soon as I heard him on that show as Spike, I knew he was going to go places. Unfortunately, most of the time it seems he gets hired just to do the Spike voice, and it's a great voice, don't get me wrong, but it's nice to see what else he can do. The man has range. His Goblin was excellent, and blows every other Goblin voice actor out of the water. It's like the voice I always had in my head when reading the comics without ever quite knowing what that voice was. I felt the same way about Robert Englund's Vulture, come to think of it. Okay, tangent over.

This version of the Green Goblin seems to have just about everything that I love about the character going for him. Smart, cunning, insane, ambitious, and more than a match for the spectacular Spider-Man. This is the first villain (aside from Tombstone) that really, really, really felt like a real threat. Which is as it should be. The Green Goblin is an A-List villain. Him, Doc Ock, Kingpin, Venom and the original Hobgoblin have always been the elite of Spidey's rogues gallery. So, it is great to finally, after all these years, see him being done justice in one of the cartoon series. The 90s series didn't do him justice. Neither did the 80s series or "The Amazing Friends". The movie came very close but didn't quite nail it. But, between Blum's Green Goblin and Alan Rachins' Norman Osborn, I think we have a winner here.

Tombstone was great last episode and I am really enjoying him in this episode. I no longer lament the lack of the Kingpin. Tombstone is just fun. I love how cool he is under pressure, and how he's able to get Spider-Man to protect him like that. I also thought it was great how instead of fleeing, he stayed and helped Spider-Man look for the bomb.

But where would I be if I didn't discuss Mary Jane? I already said that Vanessa Marshall sounds great, and I love Cheeks' character design for her. I've called this the first time Mary Jane has appeared outside the comic book medium. The 90s series had a character named Mary Jane Watson, but that wasn't Mary Jane Watson. The movies turned MJ into Gwen-Lite. But here she was smart, witty, funny, and someone you'd want to hang out with. I also suspect that she already knows Peter is Spider-Man. Poor Gwen. Hell, poor Flash... he's going to have to dress up like a cheerleader.

And poor Harry. Glory used him to get back at Kenny. Now he's drinking "Gobulin Green #994" (Nice "Gargoyles in-joke there, Greg.) Also, nice red herring. But no, I don't think he's the Green Goblin, if that is what they're trying to make us think. For one, how would he know about Tombstone being the Big Man? For another, how would he know about the Tech-Flight glider? Besides, after Hammerhead tried to blackmail Norman in the last episode, taking out Tombstone would probably be at the top of Norman's to-do list. If anything, Harry taking the formula looks like a great way to tell the Harry drug addiction story. Cool. Also, Norman was more than conspicuous in his absence... except that he wasn't really absent.

"Randy?"
"Very!"
How did that get past Standards and Practices??? Nice!

Looking forward to Dr. Octopus next week. Come to think of it, I am beyond amused that Doc Ock makes his villainous debut in the eighth episode of the series.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Is that not the perfect visual image of life and death? A fish flapping on the carpet, and a fish not flapping on the carpet." - Bill AKA Snake Charmer
posted @ Sat, Apr 26, 2008 2:48:02 pm EDT from 75.56.245.4

Meg -

Ah, ok. I remember that post from Greg. The license guys aren't the TV guys though. The TV guys are constantly watched by bean counters and will gut a show the second it loses viewers to Power Rangers. The license guys don't have to front any money to produce a product so I can't see them not renewing the license because of sales. People give the Disney license guys too much credit. I really don't think they're watching that closely.
Lumpmoose - [lumpmoose at googles dot email dot service]
posted @ Sat, Apr 26, 2008 2:16:34 pm EDT from 216.250.163.157

Me three! The system is what it is, and no one can predict the future. I've always a been a realist, but we haven't seen any proof that it's NOT going to be renewed. So let's just relax, and go with what we've got, which is something after a decade of nothing.

Meg: I agree that there's been some improvement. When the first few issues came out, I was one of the people who said that it sometimes takes an artist a while to establish a creative flow. Heck, I said in my review for Number 7 that Goliath and Elisa's castletop chat looked great (or I think I did). But there are moments where I'm still seeing "high" looks in close-ups of faces.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Everyone decides their own fate, no matter where they're born. Words like fate, karma... it's all just an excuse for giving up, if you ask me." -Snake ("Metal Gear Solid")
posted @ Sat, Apr 26, 2008 1:58:01 pm EDT from 76.123.52.7

Lumpmoose>Greg has mentioned in Ask Greg fairly recently that Dan Vado stated that he wants to renew the license. We're assuming that the ball is in Disney's court as far as that goes.

Harvester>I disagree; I don't think his human characters are THAT bad. They've gotten a lot better, especially Elisa in #7. And I personally am far more interested at how his drawing the gargs improves, at any rate.
Meg
posted @ Sat, Apr 26, 2008 1:21:00 pm EDT from 138.16.28.211

New SS-M coming up in 5 minutes! Good thing I'm awake, my stupid DVR didn't have it set to record. Looks like this episode is going to be "Green" with envy. ;)

New Transformers today too!
(The Gargoyles Pulse - updated Mondays)
Anthony Tini
posted @ Sat, Apr 26, 2008 9:55:30 am EDT from 70.15.84.29

Hear, hear! This is the greatest time to be a Gargoyles fan since the mid-90s! Show some optimism. We don't know what the future is, all we can do is continue to support Gargoyles and its spin-offs and SPREAD THE WORD as much as possible about the books, the DVDs, the various other merchandise and the Gathering. The rest is out of our hands, so stop worrying about it. If we do our part, it'll make things easier for Greg and SLG and us in the long run.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Sat, Apr 26, 2008 9:46:11 am EDT from 70.237.249.216

There sure seem to be a lot of Eeyores in this Hundred Acre Wood. At times, I wish the fandom would just enjoy the comic books and stop obsessing over production issues that we have no control over, speculating gloom and doom over the sales figures, and debating whether or not it will be renewed.

62 days left until The Gathering 2008 in Chicago, Illinois!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"Oh, bother." - Winnie the Pooh
posted @ Sat, Apr 26, 2008 9:16:59 am EDT from 76.205.118.123

Thanks for the behind-the-scenes information on how a comic book gets put out, Robby. (Just one reason why it helps to have a fan for a colorist.)
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Sat, Apr 26, 2008 7:21:43 am EDT from 4.244.214.108

dph_of_rules - "Last we heard, the decision for renewal was in Disney's hands not slg's hands."

Where did you hear that? I thought the whole scare about the comic not being renewed was from Dan Vado complaining about the logistical nightmare that the Disney comics turned out to be. I remember him lamenting on his blog about how many resources they require and Greg vaguely mentioning concerns about the same time. Who thinks Disney might not renew the license?
Lumpmoose - [lumpmoose at googles dot email dot service]
posted @ Sat, Apr 26, 2008 3:48:50 am EDT from 216.250.163.157

I never thought the process for publication would be so complicated... >.<''' At least now I understand it a little better.

Now to go sleep for the next 10-15 hours...
The One Known As Mochi - [shogi dot keima dot 08 at gmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>T.T)> Too much sleep...
posted @ Sat, Apr 26, 2008 2:05:04 am EDT from 72.199.224.230

Here's definitely gotten a lot better, just like Greg Weisman said he would. I'm pretty happy with his work.
(The Gargoyles Pulse - updated Mondays)
Anthony Tini
posted @ Sat, Apr 26, 2008 1:38:28 am EDT from 70.15.84.29

Meg: There's one major obstacle Hedgecock still needs to overcome, which is that most of the human characters still look stoned in close-ups.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"This ain't the garden of Eden, there ain't no angels above. And things ain't like what they used to be, and this ain't the summer of love." -Blue Oyster Cult
posted @ Fri, Apr 25, 2008 11:54:28 pm EDT from 76.123.52.7

Robby> Wow, that's even more complicated than I thought it was. >..< Thanks for putting that info up.
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth_dragon at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Fri, Apr 25, 2008 11:41:51 pm EDT from 24.98.74.35

dph-well here's hoping they renew it. From what I've heard, it doesn't seem like they're losing money from it anyway.

I was hoping to get #9 in May, but ah well. Thank you for the info Robby, the delays make sense now.
Purplegoldfish
posted @ Fri, Apr 25, 2008 11:33:27 pm EDT from 64.148.34.218

Robby > Thank you for all the insight into the process of getting a comic book out. I've got my fingers crossed that #9 comes out in June. Also, your coloring work has been awesome.
Rebel
posted @ Fri, Apr 25, 2008 10:33:22 pm EDT from 216.45.251.210

Purplegoldfish - Last we heard, the decision for renewal was in Disney's hands not slg's hands.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happened to simplicity?
posted @ Fri, Apr 25, 2008 10:33:18 pm EDT from 98.20.240.192

Since the matters of printing, shipping, and solicitation schedules have come up again, I'll do my best to adress the questions.

First off, Issue 9 is being finished , and is not yet at the printers, but we are shooting to get it out by June. It's gonna be a good one, and there are steps in motion to get the subsequent issues out in a more timely fashion. I should be coloring every issue from here on out, and its my favorite book to work on of the 3 titles I do every month, so hopefully there will be some nice consistency to it all.

As for how the Diamond distributors system works...

I'm pretty sure I've explained this before but... about 5 months in advance, comic companies put together their solicitation material, including text and cover images, and send it in to Diamond. ( September solicits are due in about a week, to give a feel for the timetable here.)

Diamond then publishes the Previews catalouge, which after assembling, printing and shipping time, comes out about two months later. (The catalouge for items shipping in June just came out.) This catalouge then stays in the retailers for a month, where customers can pick out and order items, and books are ordered.

Retailers use their own judgements and customer requests to figure out their order ammounts. These orders then go back through diamond, and get to the comic book publishers, about two months before shipping date. These order numbers reflect the expected demand for a book, and influence the print run.

So for an example, if orders for a book are 4,788, then the publisher might decide to print 5000 copies, or have a little more leeway, and print 5,500 copies for selling later. Obviously, books generalyl don't go to the printer before numbers are in, in order to avoid underprinting or massive over printing.

Print times vary. Black and white books, be they 24 page pamphlets or 180 page trades, take 2 weeks usually. Approvals and problems in the process can extend this to 3 or 4 weeks. Color books in general, take an extra week, sometimes two.

So on average, a black and white book, (Bad Guys) will take 2 weeks to print) while a color book will take 3. This is average, a printer on a slow week can turn around a book in a week if there is nothing else on their schedule or they prepared a spot well in advance, but this is not the norm.

So, on average, it takes 2 or 3 weeks to print a book. Then, the book ships from the printer, to Diamond, which has torehouses around the country. This takes another week. And then, from Diamond, the books ship to comic stores, which takes another week.

So, from the time a book goes into the printer, to the time it arrives in comic stores, is generally 4 or 5 weeks.

Gargoyles on top of everything else has the Disney X factor, where, even once the book is completely finished, Disney has to approve it. This is true of most licensed books. I honestly do not personally know how long this step takes, and it probably varies. This can take anywhere from 2 days to two months,

So, even after an issue is finished, from the minute it gets to the editor, it could still be a solid 3 months from time of completion until it reaches stores. And thats nopt even considering if a book is printing overseas, in which case there's another 2 months for shipping time. (Gargs is NOT printed overseas, but it is a facctor in other publications. ) And thats all only if the team producing the book is on schedule!

If the writer or artist or the colorist or letterer or whatever runs late, then obviously, that pushes things back even more. In theory, every comic book should be done a full three months in advance, so that it actually finished when it is first solicited, so that it can go straight to the printers once the numbers come in, but that is often not the case.

So, as you can see, soliciting and printing and shipping is a ridiculously complicated process, started about half a year in advance. With novels, bookstores and dvds, the process is even longer, spanning a solid year or more. Pixar is now annoucning movies they'll be releasing in 2011!

Advance solicitation is just a part of the process, and its not always known that far in advance exactly when or how something is going to be finished, or what the final product will be, just that the intention is there to have it done as best as possible. Its a complicated and massive system, and there's actually a lot more to it that that, but I think thats enough of a summary to get the idea.

So yeah, all that said. Gargs number 9 is being completed. The actual book production is a bit behind schedule, but a June release IS being shot for. Just, as you may have noticed, a great many factors that might or might not allow that to happen.
Robby Bevard
posted @ Fri, Apr 25, 2008 8:54:22 pm EDT from 64.123.68.76

*sigh* Greg still doesn't know if the comic will be renewed? We are up to the soliciation of #12 already-shouldn't we know by now?
Purplegoldfish
posted @ Fri, Apr 25, 2008 8:04:14 pm EDT from 64.148.34.218

Chip> "I asked up front (in a question that hasn't been answered yet) if they were Pog and Lunette so that Greg would confirm it for those naysayers and their pics might get placed in the garg-wiki."
-I've also asked that question. I'm not sure if you or I asked it first. But noone is a naysayer, some of us just want clarification on the point from Greg before we just decide it is canon. I don't think anyone suggested that they were not Pog and Lunette, just said we don't know for sure.

HOEyes> Yes, the comic has improved considerably with the new colorist. I just read #2 and it was way way too dark, fortunatly, it was not as dark in the TPB.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Fri, Apr 25, 2008 7:38:54 pm EDT from 70.237.249.216

dph>Oh, and actually I forgot to mention earlier, even if #9 can't get out in June, it's possible BG#4 could, given that it seemed a little closer to being done back when Greg gave us info and it's presumably a faster process as there's no colorist involved. That'd be a kick, to get three straight months of Bad Guys.

Harvester>I actually think it's both. Bevard's colors help TREMENDOUSLY, to be sure, but Hedgecock has also definitely gotten better; some of his pencils in #1 and #2 were pretty off-model and very badly proportioned (thinking particularly of that panel in #2, a full shot of Goliath jumping from building to building with Elisa with his arms, in which the entire lower half of his body is just not right at ALL). Or even, contrast the fight scene in #2 with Coco's dismembering the robot in #8; Hedgecock is just improving. At a pretty rapid pace, too.
Meg
posted @ Fri, Apr 25, 2008 7:29:52 pm EDT from 138.16.28.211

Demonskrye: That's only half-true. The whole truth is, Disney temporarily removes some items from circulation, then takes them out a few years down the road, tells the public it's their last chance to own them, and then puts them back into the vault, only to remove them again a few years after that, repeating the process, and praying that the gullibility of the average consumer never changes.

Chip: <Hedgecock has improved to the point where I'm enjoying his stuff> I'm actually wondering how much of that is due to the new regular colorist. I was going through my back issues earlier this week, and the first three issues were pretty dark. #3 was a bit easier to read, but for the first two issues, there were a lot of moments where I was thinking that anyone who's never seen the TGC episode "The Journey" would have a hard time figuring out what the hell's happening.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"This ain't the garden of Eden, there ain't no angels above. And things ain't like what they used to be, and this ain't the summer of love." -Blue
posted @ Fri, Apr 25, 2008 6:17:38 pm EDT from 76.123.52.7

dph>I agree, I doubt Disney would put Bad Guys out in back-to-back weeks. I would assume sometime around 5/21 for BG#3. I just think it's slightly weird we haven't heard anything about a release date yet.

Also, how do you figure #9 won't be out in June if it doesn't make it to Disney in the next week? The end of next week is 5/2. If we're guesstimating six weeks from submission for approval to release (which is probably a little high), #9 still has two weeks past next week for submission for a June release date. And given that Greg said Hedgecock was pencilling #9 in mid-March, I imagine it's at the very least within three weeks of being done. For all we know it's already at Disney; Greg isn't under any sort of obligation to tell us comic news the moment he gets it.

I AM a little dispapointed that we're still not sure if the license will be renewed, though. :\
Meg
posted @ Fri, Apr 25, 2008 6:11:28 pm EDT from 128.148.41.71

Meg - The last info from Greg about the status of the comics is http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=10329 . Not to sound mean, I would hope issue #3 won't come out the week immediately following issue #2, but that's a strong possibility. I am personally suspect it'll be the the 14th. We've had 5 weeks since that announcement, so I suspect we'll hear something about from Diamond pretty soon.

What concerns me is the status of gargoyles issue #9. If it does not make it to Disney's approval office by the end of next week, I'd say the odds of issue #9 being released in June non-existant.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happened to simplicity?
posted @ Fri, Apr 25, 2008 5:31:36 pm EDT from 98.20.240.192

Inside the Disney Vault is a black hole from which certain properties will never emerge, like "Song of the South".

Where will you be in nine weeks?

63 days left until The Gathering 2008 in Chicago, Illinois!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Fri, Apr 25, 2008 5:04:15 pm EDT from 76.205.118.123

GregB>Too bad. Of all the fill-in artists we've had so far, Charlebois' was far and away the best stuff. :\

SmthingWickedThisWayComes>If you read the solicitations for Bad Guys #3 and 4, they involve characters from the LS going to Manhattan. So there's a chance the main title and the LS might overlap--nothing like Marvel's Age of Apocalypse or Civil War or anything, where you need to buy one to read the other, but it's safe to say characters from the main title will be appearing in Bad Guys and that there will definitely be thematic overlap if nothing else.

Also, might I suggest delaying your trip to the comic store until Wednesday? The next ish of Bad Guys is slated to come out Wednesday, it might save you a trip....
Meg
posted @ Fri, Apr 25, 2008 5:01:07 pm EDT from 128.148.41.71

SomethingWicked > It's a bit of both. Bad Guys is a spin-off that will last for 6 issues, issue #2 is coming out next week. But at the same time, there will almost certainly be information revealed in Bad Guys that will affect the main title...however, it might not affect the main title for a while, since the current arc of the main title, as well as the upcoming arc (10-12) both seem unrelated to the action of Bad Guys. But, it will certainly become pertinent in the future.
Rebel
posted @ Fri, Apr 25, 2008 4:34:43 pm EDT from 216.45.251.210

So I'm going to my local comic shop tomorrow to pick up each comic of Gargoyles available. If they are not there I will obviously have to order them. Is Bad Guys a spin-off of the ongoing gargoyle comic or is it a parallel run which if you miss one you lose something out of the other.
SmthingWickedThisWayComes - [blasphemey16 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Fri, Apr 25, 2008 4:24:29 pm EDT from 157.182.186.43

Meg > I was the one that mentioned that Amp might already have a mate. I see what you're saying, but I still think it's possible that both Amp and Coco already have mates within the London clan. They might not, but we'll see.
Rebel
posted @ Fri, Apr 25, 2008 3:19:17 pm EDT from 216.45.251.210

MEG> Karine is very busy with "Bad Guys" and is also a full-time storyboard artist. I think the chances of her filling in for Hedgecock are slim to none.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Is that not the perfect visual image of life and death? A fish flapping on the carpet, and a fish not flapping on the carpet." - Bill AKA Snake Charmer
posted @ Fri, Apr 25, 2008 2:52:03 pm EDT from 75.56.245.4

Bad Guys> #2 is listed in midtown's newsletter as being released this upcoming week, which is promising as midtown hasn't been wrong to date. Wednesday is the 30th, so we may yet have a few months with a comic per. ;)

Does anyone know anything about the release of #3? Since it's been done for a while, I'm assuming that it should have no problems being out next month, but does anyone have any definitive info?

Fill-in artists>I agree, IF the main title ever needs a fill-in artist I would like it to be Charlebois, but I hope Hedgecock does #12 in particular and has first crack at Brook's family (if we're guessing right about the content of each issue). Two reasons: practically speaking, Hedgecock as the title's penciller is going to be the one drawing the new characters on a far more frequent basis than is Charlebois (assuming the comic is renewed past #12), and because of this I'd rather him be able to really design the characters for our first glimpse, so we know what they're really going to look like. Secondly (and this ties into the first), I've actually been very impressed with Hedgecock's original characters; his art is MUCH better when he doesn't feel "locked in" to specific character design and is free to create his own (not that Greg doesn't tell him what new characters should look like, but there's a difference between being told "white stag gargoyle" and being handed tons of materials on Amp and learning to draw him). Look at how well Hedgecock has drawn Shari, Coco, Amp, and all the flashback scenes, as opposed to how he still at times struggles with the characters from the series. So I think his designs for Katana and co. would be pretty baller.

Random>In discussing a while back whether Amp will be Lex's One True, someone mentioned that it's possible Amp already has a mate in the London Clan. I was rereading the dialogue, and I have to say I don't think so, because wouldn't he have mentioned it at that moment? I feel like in normal flow of conversation, one would be like "Coco? GOD NO! She's my best mate, but MATE? No, (insert name) would be mad," or something to that effect.
Meg
posted @ Fri, Apr 25, 2008 2:12:19 pm EDT from 128.148.41.71

Chip > Good idea.
Rebel
posted @ Fri, Apr 25, 2008 1:30:09 pm EDT from 216.45.251.210

Demonskrye & Lumpmoose> Thanks for the info, but the way Vinne talks about it makes it sound like some kind of super top secret B.P.R.D. style bunker where Disney keeps Walt's cryogenically frozen brain.
Algernon
"Nobody can say I wasn't a perfect father, do you hear..? Nobody !" - Norman Osborn
posted @ Fri, Apr 25, 2008 1:03:56 pm EDT from 149.157.1.180

Sorry for the double post.
Yeah, I never doubted that those two were Pog and Lunette...it's just sort of an obvious thing.
I asked up front (in a question that hasn't been answered yet) if they were Pog and Lunette so that Greg would confirm it for those naysayers and their pics might get placed in the garg-wiki.
Chip - [Dragonhunter723 at yahoo dot com]
Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable. -- C.S. Lewis
posted @ Fri, Apr 25, 2008 12:58:38 pm EDT from 68.164.229.93

Rebel> I agree, Nir and Gordon were okay. Hedgecock has improved to the point where I'm enjoying his stuff, but Karine was absolutely the best! She looked like she'd pulled the stuff straight from an episode. If she does do Phoenix and gets to design Katana, Nashville, and Fu-dog I will be one very happy Gargoyles fan.
Chip - [Dragonhunter723 at yahoo dot com]
Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable. -- C.S. Lewis
posted @ Fri, Apr 25, 2008 12:55:13 pm EDT from 68.164.229.93

My bad, I meant to put this in my earlier post.

*Spoilerish, I guess*

Lunette > I don't see what the big surprise is about Greg confirming that that gargoyle is Lunette. OF COURSE she is Lunette, or else why would he have had the panels placed in that way? I know Greg tricks us sometimes, but it's not like EVERYTHING is a trick.
Rebel
posted @ Fri, Apr 25, 2008 12:53:35 pm EDT from 216.45.251.210

That may be the way people use 'Disney Vault' around here, but it's a term Disney uses officially. It's true they use it to "hold" out-of-print material, but not "media which Disney would rather never existed". Theoretically, all their old animated features are in the vault and are only removed when they rerelease it on DVD or in theaters. It's a way to make every release a 'limited edition' in order to manipulate demand generation after generation and maximize profits. More info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disney_Vault So people can use the term if they want, but just know that most people use it for something completely different. Both the Gargoyles show and comic have nothing to do with the real Disney Vault, since it was never a "Walt Disney Animated Classic", i.e. feature from their primary studio.
Lumpmoose - [lumpmoose at googles dot email dot service]
posted @ Fri, Apr 25, 2008 12:39:59 pm EDT from 128.101.32.234

In regards to #12 > I'm tentatively excited that we might get a fill-in artist, in slim hopes that it might be Karinne Charlebois. I'd love to see her back on the main title once in a while, and I actually think it would be kinda cool if she got to design some major canon characters...though she did get to design TT, it doesn't seem like he'll be a major player (unless he becomes part of the Ultra-Pack some day, and even then he'll probably go through a re-design).

Though I appreciate everyone else's work, she is overwhelmingly my favorite artist of anyone who has worked on the comic so far.
Rebel
posted @ Fri, Apr 25, 2008 12:39:02 pm EDT from 216.45.251.210

Algernon> It's kind of a fictional structure into which movie Disney wants to temporarily remove from circulation and media which Disney would rather never existed are put. It's also supposedly the depository for the numbers on the Gargoyles DVDs and comic.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Fri, Apr 25, 2008 10:50:53 am EDT from 209.6.248.33

Vinne> What is this Diney vault you speak of?
Algernon
"Nobody can say I wasn't a perfect father, do you hear..? Nobody !" - Norman Osborn
posted @ Fri, Apr 25, 2008 7:41:54 am EDT from 149.157.1.180

I agree with Harvester on the "unsolicited submissions" issue. The "Spread the Word" efforts are more important, in any case.

VICKYUK - I've heard about that series as well. It's supposed to air on NBC over here in the States, and Anthony Stewart Head (who played Giles in "Buffy the Vampire Slayer") will be playing the part of Uther Pendragon.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Fri, Apr 25, 2008 7:41:21 am EDT from 4.244.209.93

I just heard their is going to be a new BBC drama (UK) Called MERLIN, it's about

Set in the mythical city of Camelot, in a time before history began, this adaptation of the much loved tale focuses on Merlin as a young wizard on the cusp of adulthood and his ongoing clashes with a young King Arthur.

It will be on tv in the Autumn and I can't wait to see it.
Not sure if it will be on in America though
VickyUK - [Vickyfanofwwe at aol dot com]
posted @ Fri, Apr 25, 2008 4:32:42 am EDT from 205.188.117.134

Antiyonder> Maybe donate them to a local library? I know mine, at least, has a section of comic books, and then we might be more likely to get people randomly flipping through who decide to stick with....
Meg
posted @ Fri, Apr 25, 2008 2:53:31 am EDT from 138.16.28.211

hoe - <we incorporate rickshaws into Western culture and make it legal to trap animals in our backyards. I've been noticing a lot of stray cats lately, so many that no one would notice if a few found their way into my freezer.> That idea concerns me. Cats can't confined to spaces fairly and the only safe way to keep a cat identified is to implant microchips. That only works for mostly tamed cats, though.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happened to simplicity?
posted @ Thu, Apr 24, 2008 10:03:26 pm EDT from 98.20.240.192

As far as the unsolicited submissive is concerned, I think we should stop mentioning them. If they do frequent Station 8 (and based upon what I'm hearing, it's quite possible), they're probably loving all the attention. Whores like attention.

Vinnie: I second. The only thing you'll find in the Disney vaults is a half-starved Jim Henson.

Patrick: <And if anything, the rising costs of fuel and food should help make that $3.95 cover price on the comic look good by comparison.> It seems the solution is obvious: we incorporate rickshaws into Western culture and make it legal to trap animals in our backyards. I've been noticing a lot of stray cats lately, so many that no one would notice if a few found their way into my freezer. Not only would it save money on groceries, but I'd get another chance to try out that Asian cuisine cookbook I got for Christmas.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"As soon as my bones have healed, Pinky, remind me to hurt you." -The Brain
posted @ Thu, Apr 24, 2008 9:47:31 pm EDT from 76.123.52.7

As I've said before, since I have the Trade, I'd be willing to supply some reading areas with my copies of Gargoyle #1-6. As from the waiting area of at the doctors, barbor shop or the waiting area at the dentists, are there any other places I should pass my copies out to so other could get a look at them?
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Thu, Apr 24, 2008 8:29:23 pm EDT from 71.115.218.75

Vinnie >> "If this person wanted to do something illeglly useful s/he should hack nto the Disney vaults to find the sales figures for the Gargoyles comic book and then post it on the web."

How is Disney associated with the sales figures? Would they even bother keeping track of that stuff if they're only receiving money for the license? Wouldn't SLG have the sales figures...? I'll apologize now if I sound somewhat ignorant, but I'm curious...
The One Known As Mochi - [shogi dot keima dot 08 at gmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>T.T)> Urge...to eat cookies...rising...
posted @ Thu, Apr 24, 2008 8:01:17 pm EDT from 67.101.237.11

The economy has been in a downturn for well over a year now. That's nothing new. And if anything, the rising costs of fuel and food should help make that $3.95 cover price on the comic look good by comparison.

64 days left until The Gathering 2008 in Chicago, Illinois!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Thu, Apr 24, 2008 7:45:21 pm EDT from 76.205.118.123

Thanks for explaining about the "sales dropping" issue to me. So, though it's cause for concern, it might not be as bleak as I'd originally feared.

I wish I could do more to spread the word; so far, I've only been able to tell one person about the comic (the webmaster of a site about King Arthur in the comics; I thought that "Gargoyles" #8 definitely qualified for mention in the site, and he responded to my e-mail with a warm thank you for the information). I haven't brought it up yet on the message boards and mailing lists that I visit (other than this one), since I don't want to seem like I'm aggressively pushing it (my experiences with telemarketers have convinced me that trying to do that is more likely to prejudice people against the product); I've made occasional remarks as a possible lead-in to telling them about the comic, if anybody asks, but so far, nobody's bitten.

Pity about "Bad Guys"; it was always the spin-off in Greg's MasterPlan that interested me the least, but I found #1 fairly enjoyable - and also, if "Bad Guys" does poorly, SLG and Disney will have less incentive to give Greg the go-ahead for a "Pendragon" spin-off.

Thanks for the "Gargoyles #12" report, Bishansky. But what does "C: 0-0-2" stand for?
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Thu, Apr 24, 2008 6:45:12 pm EDT from 4.244.215.82

Gargoyles 12:- I'm guessing we see Brooklyn's new family on the last page.
VickyUK - [Vickyfanofwwe at aol dot com]
posted @ Thu, Apr 24, 2008 5:10:08 pm EDT from 205.188.117.134

Actually, less precise than that: they're estimates of the sales Diamond makes to North American comic stores (click my name for the list of the top 300). So obviously we don't know how well the comic does in subsequent weeks (except that it never re-enters the top 300), nor how well it does outside the States, or from non-stores etc., and the numbers are an estimate anyway. So the numers aren't concrete or final. But it seems like a decent barometer for the overall trend. The most informative number, it seems to me, is the sales rank, because that indicates how we are relative to the rest of the market. And that's good for us, because we're not doing too badly on that.

Greg: Thanks for posting that.

Kind of hope we don't need a fill-in, especially if the #12 artist is going to be debuting Katana, Nashville and Fu-dog. But it's better than a delay I guess. No title either... I wonder if that's because it would give too much away or just because it hasn't been scripted yet.
Ed
posted @ Thu, Apr 24, 2008 5:00:14 pm EDT from 213.187.39.61

RE-Unsolicited submission: Hacking into the Disney vault is way better then uselessly posting to Greg W. such ideas that never will be read. And there is plenty of other Gargoyle goodies that Disney keeps sacrosanct hidden away in it's vaults worth jail time over, not to mention the free publicity for the comic.
Vinnie - [tpeano29 at hotmail dot com]
It's silly. It's a silly movie. There just isn't much there. Once you take it all apart, there's not much story, is there?- George Lucas on Spider-Man 3
posted @ Thu, Apr 24, 2008 4:23:56 pm EDT from 69.54.209.74

Ed> I very much agree with your predictions on Bad Guys #2. it doesn't look like retailers had high hopes for it to start with, being a spin-off of a comic that wasn't doing tremendous sales to begin with. Plus, I think Bad Guys, though I have hopes for it - is less likely to appeal to more casual readers than the main book is. Very few people are going to recognize the T-1000 looking guy on the cover. Even if people faithfully reading the main comic, they could concievably have no idea who any of the characters in "Bad Guys" are. There's a gargoyle, but unless readers get to the second issue, he doesn't seem like he's in it much. And even as a fan, I felt like the first issue didn't quite grab me.

Let me reiterate: unless I'm mistaken, the numbers Ed is providing us with are RETAILER ORDERS FROM DIAMOND. They are NOT the number of books sold from comic shops; they are the total number of copies in comic shops. So at best, we could have another 100 or so people ask their local shops to reorder the comic. But they aren't going to buy another 100 copies because there are only 5.288 copies in stores to be sold.

Greg B> Thanks for posting that. The lack of an artist in the solicitation could mean that they're looking for a fill-in artist, or at least keeping open the possibility of using one.

So it looks like #10 will probably be mostly buildup to Brooklyn finding the Phoenix Gate and leaving the castle, #11 will be the start of his first adventure encountering Mary and Finella, and #12 will be the conclusion of that adventure, possibly including Brook taking the ladies to the 1970s. I'm also guessing this means we won't be seeing Brooklyn's return until issue #12, which kind of bums me out, mostly because I don't want to have to wait so long to see Brook's family.

So since we now know we'll be dealing with it in the near future, how do you think the comic is going to explain the theory of closed loop time travel? It's not the easiest thing to get across in a few 24 page comics. If you don't get what's going on and don't understand that the past is fixed and can't be changed, transporting two women from medieval Scotland to 1970s somewhere in the US can seem and awful lot like changing history rather than an action that always has and always will happen. I'm actually kind of surprised by the phrasing of the solicitation, since there's not much point in having a moral quandry over something you physically cannot do.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Thu, Apr 24, 2008 3:28:35 pm EDT from 209.6.248.33

GARGOYLES #12
by Greg Weisman

Can a Time Dancing Brooklyn change the course of human history - and should he? Can he find his way back to the present? And if so, who will he bring along to the dance?
(C: 0-0-2)
24pgs, FC.................................... $3.95

Hmm, no Hedgecock. No artist listed at all.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Is that not the perfect visual image of life and death? A fish flapping on the carpet, and a fish not flapping on the carpet." - Bill AKA Snake Charmer
posted @ Thu, Apr 24, 2008 2:37:11 pm EDT from 75.56.245.4

(Sorry, I should have said 4 month delay. It's 6 months since the last issue.)
Ed
posted @ Thu, Apr 24, 2008 2:12:09 pm EDT from 213.187.39.61

DPH: Not trying to spread gloom, but I think we need to prepare ourselves for BG #2 probably landing like an egg on a pavement. It has to contend with a perfect storm: (1) a 6 month delay, (2) the usual post-#1 drop-off and (3) a market downturn. So more important than ever to get the hypemobile on the road...

Demonskrye: Good rundown. I think the delay and the downturn are the big factors myself. Remember as well, it's mid story arc and these generally don't do as well as issues with a clear jump-on point.

Oh, I didn't see if anyone posted it, but Greg's been back on the Spider-Man Crawlspace podcast. I think a search of itunes or, I guess, Google should bring it up.
Ed
posted @ Thu, Apr 24, 2008 2:11:06 pm EDT from 213.187.39.61

That's less than a 200 issue difference in sales between #7 and #8, might it be reasonable to assume that the length of time #7 has been in stores vs #8 could account for that? There's still time for 100 or so folks to pick it up before #9 comes out.

Amazingly enough, there's one comic book shop in my area that orders more than two when they come out, and there's a few that rot away in the cartoon/kiddy comic rack. I found #7 there and nearly died of shock, having not expected it to be out as soon as it was. I wish it wasn't relegated to the kiddy rack, but at least there are copies available to browsers long after the week it comes out. The other shop in my town only orders two of each release and they have zero back issues.

I use promoting the comic as an excuse to indulge in posting garg fanart now and then, and I always get a handful of people who had no idea there was a comic out asking where they can get the books.
Tabby
posted @ Thu, Apr 24, 2008 12:45:52 pm EDT from 72.77.244.211

Minor Issue #8 SPOILERS

Jack Pumpkinhead> ::pointing down to my previous post:: Yeah, I noticed. I think that's as close are we're getting to confirmation until Lunette - and Pog - are officially introduced in the comic, which I think is going to happen. The only reason I'm hesitant to say it's completely confirmed as far a Lunette goes is that Greg could either be saying "You mean the little unicorn gargoyle whose name is Lunette?" or "Are you suggesting that the little unicorn gargoyle may be the character 'Lunette'?" I kind of doubt that the latter is what he meant, though Greg could be playing around with words in an attempt to trick us. Still, my general feeling is that Lunette is just a hair shy of being confirmed to be the little unicorn gargoyle we saw.

Todd> The comic does still seem to be dropping in sales, though the decline is slowing and may be plateauing. Keeping in mind that this is the number of sales of comics from Diamond to comic stores, not comic stores sales to actual customers. For all we know, the sales to readers could have been much more steady over the run of the series and what we're seeing is the shops gradually adjusting their orders to reflect a more realistic number of potential sales, much like my local comic shop just recently stopped ordering shelf copies which weren't selling. Here's my list of potential reasons for the sales decline:

*Shops adjusting their orders to meet demand - Like I said above.
*Retailers/readers unaware the comic is still being published - Possibly our biggest concern.
*Readers don't know when the comic is out - This should be less of a problem for retailers themselves unless they aren't checking for it in Previews.
*People losing interest - This could be due to any number of reasons: frustration with the release schedule, concerns about the art, it's just not their thing, and so on. Sometimes people do just give a comic a "trial period" of a certain number of issues and then stop reading it if they don't think it's worth continuing to pick it up. This could especially account for the steeper drops between he first few issues.
*Speculators stop buying the book - Dumb as a I think it is, there are still people who buy comics in the hopes that they will be valuable. They tend to buy first issues and then drop the book unless there's some indication that it will become popular or increase in value. This, combined with the previous reason and retailers adjusting initial estimates of how much the book could sell down, could explain the steeper drop between the first few issues.
*Readers decide to wait for the trade - Now that a trade of the first six issues has been published, some readers may have decided that it's easier - and possibly cheaper - to just wait for the trade.
*People are cutting down on comics/trips to the comic store. - Ed mentioned that comics sales across the board were down the week #8 was released. With the economy looking bad, gas prices constantly climbing, and prices of other goods starting to reflect high oil prices, people may be cutting back on how many trips they make to the comic store or how many books they buy.

That's probably not every possible reason, but it's some. Spreading the word is probably still the best bet for improving sales, since we may well be at the point where people who have read the comic in the past aren't anymore simply because they think it has been cancelled.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Thu, Apr 24, 2008 12:29:39 pm EDT from 209.6.248.33

Ed - thx for the sales figures.

When you consider the length of time between the release of #7 and #8, I consider the sales figures great. The question is going to be about sales for bg #2. What's the pattern we're looking for on sales of bg #2? Better than bg #1 or slightly lower?
dph_of_rules
Whatever happened to simplicity?
posted @ Thu, Apr 24, 2008 12:05:24 pm EDT from 98.20.148.220

Sorry to switch gears here, but did anybody else notice in Greg's response to Vaevictus'(sorry if i misspelled) questions of #8, that he confirmed the stone unicorn gargoyle was Lunette? Therefore, I would surmise it safe to assume the other new guy we saw in stone was Old Pog.
Jack-Pumpkinhead - [jtjgundam at hotmail dot com]
'Lord what fools these mortals be."
posted @ Thu, Apr 24, 2008 11:01:06 am EDT from 150.201.67.211

Well, sales went up from #6 to #7, so I don't know if you can say it's *still* a problem, but maybe a new problem. But Ed's right: we've climbed in the sales rank. In fact, we haven't dropped in sales rank since #4. Hopefully SLG takes the whole market into consideration. But it's still disheartening that a Gargoyles fan wouldn't want to read #8 after the cliffhanger in #7. It could also be that since #8 was released in the last week of March that there were a few hundred sales left in April. I only buy comics monthly (around the Gargoyles release) and so I often don't buy my other usual comics in the month they're released. Of course, I have a pull list, so maybe that doesn't count.

Spin doesn't help anyone, I suppose. But I'm just saying that SLG must have more concrete sales figures and it may look better to them than the Diamond chart looks to us.
Lumpmoose - [lumpmoose at googles_mail_service]
posted @ Thu, Apr 24, 2008 10:41:58 am EDT from 128.101.32.234

We've *still* got the dropping sales problem for the comic?
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, Apr 24, 2008 10:20:42 am EDT from 198.209.226.130

I just hope that whoever did it realizes it was wrong and stupid to do, and doesn't do it again.
The Gargoyles Pulse
~ Anthony Tini
posted @ Thu, Apr 24, 2008 10:11:09 am EDT from 159.240.11.254

RE: Unsolicited submission.
I have to agree with Greg B. there is no way this person could have gone to all the trouble of seeking out mister Weisman's home address without stumbling on Ask Greg and learning about Greg's rules regarding this sort of thing. And yes seeking out Greg's home address is if not stalking then creepy as hell. If your ideas are really so mind blowing's brilliant then why not go through the proper channels, get yourself an agent or apply for a job at Disney/SGL/Sony or however your supposed to do it.
Algernon
"Nobody can say I wasn't a perfect father, do you hear..? Nobody !" - Norman Osborn
posted @ Thu, Apr 24, 2008 10:05:04 am EDT from 149.157.1.180

Also thanks to Todd and commiserations to Vicky!
Ed
posted @ Thu, Apr 24, 2008 8:21:49 am EDT from 213.187.39.61

Vinnie: Um, you don't need to hack into the Disney vaults to get the sales figures for the comic book. Here they are (rank, issue, estimate of sales through Diamond to comic stores).

165. Gargoyles #1 (7,500)
205. Gargoyles #2 (6,900)
189. Gargoyles #3 (6,504)
227. Gargoyles #4 (5,775)
236. Gargoyles #5 (5,737)
236. Gargoyles #6 (5,433)
244. Gargoyles: Bad Guys #1 (4,973)
236. Gargoyles #7 (5,457)
233. Gargoyles #8 (5,288)

Disappointing to get the lowest numbers yet for #8 but comics fell across the board. That might also explain why we climbed three places on the chart.
Ed
posted @ Thu, Apr 24, 2008 8:19:43 am EDT from 213.187.39.61

SILLY QUESTION FOR THE DAY: Would it be considered bad taste for anyone at the Gathering this year to mention the role Chicago was to play in the ending we almost got to "Angels in the Night"?
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Thu, Apr 24, 2008 7:32:05 am EDT from 4.244.209.245

Vinnie> To be fair, there's nothing technically illegal about sending unsolicited material to a person. Seeking out Greg's home address could be considered borderline stalking, but I think you'd have to point to a pattern of behavior to prove it in court (not that I'm any kind of authority on such legal matters.)

In more positive news, we got some nice reveals from a question asked by VA that was answered today. We can now be pretty certain that the little unicorn gargoyle is Lunette (unless Greg is being tricky with words and asking if the question is whether or not that gargoyle is Lunette), which I think increases the likelihood that the hippogriff is Pog. Also, all mail should be set to London Clan, c/o Into the Mystic. :)
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Thu, Apr 24, 2008 7:27:05 am EDT from 209.6.248.33

Unsolicited submission- Not just stupid but useless as well. If this person wanted to do something illeglly useful s/he should hack nto the Disney vaults to find the sales figures for the Gargoyles comic book and then post it on the web. That way we'd at least be able to get the free publicity for the comic when Disney sent the police to arrest him/her.
Vinnie - [tpeano29 at hotmail dot com]
It's silly. It's a silly movie. There just isn't much there. Once you take it all apart, there's not much story, is there?- George Lucas on Spider-Man 3
posted @ Thu, Apr 24, 2008 6:31:05 am EDT from 69.54.209.123

Todd & Anthony> (That's how it goes right) although I have read the books my name is no way in contact with them :). I guess I'm a little older than the average group here but Something Wicked This Way Comes was a fantastic movie made in the early 1980's that was incredibly well written and aimed at a younger base audience. But at the same time the dark and frightening tone of the movie was incredibly mature. A great watch for those of you to young to have seen it or those who just missed it the first time around. And thank you both for all the answers :). Perhaps in a future date I can contribute to the discussion of the comic.
SmthingWickedThisWayComes - [blasphemey16 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Thu, Apr 24, 2008 5:03:58 am EDT from 157.182.186.43

I had a great St. George's Day!!!!! I had to work and serve Big Macs ect to Drunk customers
VickyUK - [Vickyfanofwwe at aol dot com]
posted @ Wed, Apr 23, 2008 8:31:59 pm EDT from 64.12.117.134

"Gorebash> Now, that is very interesting. But what does it mean?"

It means there's a property management business in New England that stupidly wants to be sued by Disney for copyright infringement.

65 days left until The Gathering 2008 in Chicago, Illinois!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Wed, Apr 23, 2008 7:09:43 pm EDT from 76.205.118.123

A happy St. George's Day to all the "Gargoyles" fans in England (such as Ed Reynolds), and to Leo, Una, Griff, Constance, Staghart, and the rest of the London clan!
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Wed, Apr 23, 2008 6:46:33 pm EDT from 4.244.214.138

I guessed it being anounymous given that the person was sneaking the idea, but I apologize if I misread the situation.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Wed, Apr 23, 2008 4:01:04 pm EDT from 71.115.218.75

Antiyonder> Where are you getting that this person is Anonymous? Greg may know who it is, and has chosen, rightly so, to not publicly disclose that information.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Is that not the perfect visual image of life and death? A fish flapping on the carpet, and a fish not flapping on the carpet." - Bill AKA Snake Charmer
posted @ Wed, Apr 23, 2008 3:56:02 pm EDT from 75.56.245.4

Which is why I figured the person chose to be anounymous. Otherwise he/she would have given a name to go with the letter and ideas.

Going back to the review, I have to say that my favorite part of the video was him trying to come up with topic to prevent his video from being flagged. The TPB was indeed a good save.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Wed, Apr 23, 2008 3:48:30 pm EDT from 71.115.218.75

Why is everyone trying to give the stalker there the benefit of the doubt? If they were obsessed enough to track down Greg's home address, then they definitely knew about Ask Greg and Greg's own rules. This is pretty open and shut, there is no gray area.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Is that not the perfect visual image of life and death? A fish flapping on the carpet, and a fish not flapping on the carpet." - Bill AKA Snake Charmer
posted @ Wed, Apr 23, 2008 3:45:02 pm EDT from 75.56.245.4

Initially missed the unsolicited submission, surprised it happened. Whoever did it either knew and chose to ignore and deserved to have it, or didn't know and apparently didn't know that most people and businesses hate unsolicited submissions to begin with. So, screwed up on two points.

Review 'Goyle> Maybe it's the slow load time, but man, he focused on the mating practice of the London Clan. Also, kinda mixes up reproduction with sex. That just made it silly. Got in a good plug of the trade.
Asatira
posted @ Wed, Apr 23, 2008 3:00:51 pm EDT from 75.143.83.91

Matt> It means someone is using the logo for their business without permission from Disney. I see all manner of small business trucks driving around with bad unlicensed artwork of Spider-Man or Superman or Disney characters on the sides. While Disney would likely give this person a cease and desist if they found out and thought it was worth the effort, I don't think it should be cause for concern. Hopefully it will just remind a couple more people of the series and maybe get them poking around online and finding out about the DVDs and the comic.

I guess your spies are around my neck of the woods, Gore, though I've never seen that use of the logo before.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Wed, Apr 23, 2008 11:03:11 am EDT from 209.6.248.33

Gorebash> Now, that is very interesting. But what does it mean?
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Wed, Apr 23, 2008 9:52:55 am EDT from 70.237.249.216

http://s8.org/images/gargoyle_truck.jpg

My spies spotted this just outside Boston today.
Gorebash
posted @ Wed, Apr 23, 2008 9:48:14 am EDT from 207.206.236.230

TINI - As far as I know, Greg made up the "500" date. (The "542" date for Arthur being taken to Avalon, however, comes from Geoffrey of Monmouth.)

Today is Shakespeare's birthday. Last year, I posted my thoughts about which Shakespearean elements might get into "Gargoyles" next, with the comic book having resumed the story.

One year later, there isn't any new Shakespearean material yet. "Bad Guys" #1 revealed that Dingo's real name was Harry Monmouth (a reference to Prince Hal/Henry V), but that had already been mentioned in "Ask Greg". Macbeth's currently playing a major role in the comic, on the other hand (though without any references to his Shakespearean connections - unless he's thinking about the Scottish Play, as somebody suggested, when he says, in response to Arthur's "All things are true... few things are accurate", "No bloody kidding").

I wonder if the material in the other five issues of "Bad Guys" will build on the Dingo/Prince Hal analogy that Greg's clearly decided on (we know that there was going to be an antagonist in that spin-off named Falstaff, but I don't know if he'll be in the comic or not). We'll have to wait and see.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Wed, Apr 23, 2008 6:48:13 am EDT from 4.244.211.60

I'd figure that the person offering his/her ideas was aware to some degree that he/she isn't suppose to give a writer an idea. Otherwise, why be anounymous about it?

Anyway, since we got that youtube review on #8, I thought I'd share some of my youtube findings. I'm sure I'm not the only one here who hasn't played the Sega Genesis game Gargoyles, so here are some clips of of two of the game levels:

Level 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4Eil8C2RXQ
Level 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrvsUB7HyTU
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Wed, Apr 23, 2008 4:23:26 am EDT from 71.115.218.75

ReviewDude of You Tube> Yeah, that was pretty fun. I guess I missed his #7 review, that one had a hilarious start. If this guy can't figure out the non-linear thing, maybe he needs to read Phil's review in "Etched in Stone".
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Wed, Apr 23, 2008 4:19:59 am EDT from 70.237.249.216

Constance's name > There is also that "something of great constancy" line from Hyppolyta in Midsummer Night's Dream.
Rebel
posted @ Wed, Apr 23, 2008 2:53:38 am EDT from 216.45.251.210

Off-topic> It seems there's an Issue 8 review on YouTube, from a certain Gargoyle. About time, too. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFH2IvkhA7U
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Wed, Apr 23, 2008 2:50:21 am EDT from 75.60.190.106

I'm just hoping the individual who sent the submission was just overly... innocent, I guess. If they're obsessive enough to find out his home address and go on with sending him story ideas, they're probably out of touch enough to not understand what lines they're crossing. Hopefully this will be a wakeup call to them to think their actions through a bit more.

It's a bit more understandable with someone at a con approaching him in person. At least it's less stalkerish than seeking out his personal info. I doubt they meant any harm or rudeness, but boy do I know how people with good intentions can become nightmares.
Tabby
posted @ Tue, Apr 22, 2008 11:34:17 pm EDT from 72.77.244.211

Matt> As I said, I'd like to think it was just someone who didn't know about Greg's policy, but I just have a hard time believing that anyone who would think to look up Greg and send their ideas to him instead of SLG or Disney would have to know that he doesn't read fan ideas. Heck, if you google Greg, the first thing that comes up is his Wikipedia article, which mentions Ask Greg, and the second thing IS Ask Greg.

Lani> That's a really great thought. Since "Coco" probably came before "Constance" due to the connection with the comedy development, her name's relation to the boar's traits in heraldry may just be a happy accident, though it's possible that Greg intended it all along.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Tue, Apr 22, 2008 9:10:39 pm EDT from 209.6.248.33

Todd> I'm not familiar with Arthurian legend and was wondering if 500 A.D. had any historical accuracy.
(The Gargoyles Pulse - updated Mondays)
Anthony Tini
posted @ Tue, Apr 22, 2008 8:45:35 pm EDT from 70.15.84.29

TINI - I'm not certain what you mean by that. If you mean "Is it true in the Gargoyles Universe?", I'd say that it probably is. (After all, it appears in a regular flashback, not in one of Shari's stories.)

If you mean "Did Greg make that up?", the answer is "Yes". (At least, there's no mention of Arthur crowned on Michaelmas in the medieval romances.) He probably chose that date since he takes an interest in Michaelmas (for one thing, his birthday is the day before it).
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Tue, Apr 22, 2008 7:50:54 pm EDT from 4.244.209.89

SPOILERS

How accurate is the date of 9/29/500 as Arthur's coronation? Is that a Greg guesstimate?
(The Gargoyles Pulse - updated Mondays)
Anthony Tini
posted @ Tue, Apr 22, 2008 7:38:14 pm EDT from 70.15.84.29

MATT - It still looked modern to me (modern, at least, by comparison to the clothes everyone else was wearing in the Arthurian flashback). Though Odin often wore a wide-brimmed hat (to hide that missing eye), and he was active during the Dark Ages, as well.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Tue, Apr 22, 2008 7:36:04 pm EDT from 4.244.209.89

Todd> I am looking at Merlin's pics in the comic right now and I don't think his hat looks like a comboy hat at all. It's just an ordinary wide-brimmed hat.

And it's pretty cool.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Tue, Apr 22, 2008 7:11:25 pm EDT from 70.237.249.216

Tony: Technically, if you're going by what credible sources say, they're the ones who look foolish for having those dates in the first place. If anyone in any of the forums gives you grief, just say that we waited eleven years for new material. One more week is nothing.

Unsolicited submission: Wow. Tact has definitely taken a holiday. In the same place as Jimmy Hoffa.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Never bring an ice cream truck to a taser fight..."
posted @ Tue, Apr 22, 2008 7:06:26 pm EDT from 76.123.52.7

LANI - Thanks for that idea about Constance's name. I hadn't thought of that one (though, by a coincidence, I was reading earlier today about the symbolic traits of heraldic animals).

So the hat that Merlin's wearing in #8 isn't a cowboy hat, then?

(I wonder if Merlin had had access to the Phoenix Gate. Or maybe Brooklyn stopped by immediately pre-Arthurian Britain on one of his Timedances and brought the hat along with him.)

I was alarmed to hear about the Unsolicited Submission. I hope this won't happen again.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Tue, Apr 22, 2008 7:02:07 pm EDT from 4.244.209.89

MATT> Oh, I bet that person is fully aware of Greg's policy. If they're enough of a stalker... er, I mean, fan, to go through the trouble of finding out Greg's home address, then the stalker... er, fan, has been to ASK GREG and clearly knows the rules.

I'm not mentioning names, but we had a guy at one of the Gatherings who felt his ideas were so awesome, that they were too good for fanfic that he wanted to give them to Greg. Everyone kept explaining to him, Greg included, that he does not accept outside fan ideas. Nope, this guy never got it through his head, he kept on trying to pitch them and pitch them and pitch them.

His oh so brilliant ideas, by the way, were stolen from a popular anime so they weren't even his.

So, some people either just don't get it, or have an entitlement complex so huge they think the rules don't apply to them.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Is that not the perfect visual image of life and death? A fish flapping on the carpet, and a fish not flapping on the carpet." - Bill AKA Snake Charmer
posted @ Tue, Apr 22, 2008 6:33:03 pm EDT from 75.56.245.4

I tend to doubt that Greg's post here is going to get through to the person in question. I certainly can't see any of the regulars here doing something like that. I suspect it is someone who is actually completely unaware of Greg's policy concerning fanfic and ideas. And since the regulars here know that policy all too well, it is likely to be some crazy fan out there.
Just my thoughts.

Anyway. We've got a week until Bad Guys #2. Anyone else REALLY excited? Tokyo, Ishimura, Yama, Sora, Kai, Vinnie, Taro, Hunter, Dingo, Matrix! Who knows what else?
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Tue, Apr 22, 2008 6:25:45 pm EDT from 70.237.249.216

Unsolicited Submission >> Wow... Really?! That's scary... For someone to go that far to find Greg's mailing address and sending story ideas... I wrote a Sonic the Hedgehog fanfic once, but never did it cross my mind that I would go so far as to bring it up with Sega or even send it to them... Apparently, this person had A LOT of free time to be doing such a thing.

Demonskrye >> "But now, i think we can be pretty confident that s/he is blacklisted." That makes a lot of sense, all things considered.
The One Known As Mochi - [shogi dot keima dot 08 at gmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>T.T)> Too much sleep...
posted @ Tue, Apr 22, 2008 6:02:31 pm EDT from 72.199.224.230

I really don't understand the thought process behind people who try to sneak original ideas before Greg. I'm not talking about the odd bit of careless speculation or someone getting overenthusiastic in their guesses, I mean the people who try and solicit Greg to work on their Gargoyles material or who submit fully formed ideas.

Effectively what they're saying is this:

"Dear Greg,

I have seen your work, or am aware of its reputation. I'm ignoring the clearly stated rules or believe they don't apply to me, and have avoided all those pesky obstacles to keep less determined people out (you do play hard to get, don't you?). The reason I'm writing is... I fancy myself as a writer! Yep, I think we both heard the cash tills ringing there!

You're probably out of ideas by now, or at least you could do with some better ones. Despite the fact that I know nothing about what you've got planned except what you've kindly revealed to maintain fan interest during a decade-long hiatus, I know you'll want to bin all that when you hear what I've got cooking.

Now that you've got the easy bit out of the way, spending sixteen years creating, researching, developing, planning, refining, plotting, drafting, writing, story editing, casting, directing, promoting, campaigning for, spreading the word about, rambling about, repurposing for comic publication and now once again writing 'Gargoyles'... what you should really do is let me come in and tell you what to do next.

This is a good plan for everybody - I launch myself as a writer without a shred of effort and you don't get found out by your fans for having no ideas left. Let's face it Greg, if all those people rate what YOU'VE already done, think how excited they're going to be with the kind of stuff I'M gonna be churning out!

In posting this, what I'm imagining will happen is that you'll gratefully receive these ideas and ring me up for more. With your hours of hard graft and my natural genius, I'll soon be filthy rich like you.

Catch ya,"

I mean... I can think of few more insulting, disrespectful things to say to Greg (or any writer, really). I don't know how they have the gall.

(And surely hunting down his home address is tantamount to stalking?)
Ed
posted @ Tue, Apr 22, 2008 5:54:09 pm EDT from 213.187.39.61

>Todd

Not sure if anyone else has addressed this yet... :)

Even though Coco's name (Constance) doesn't seem to bear a direct correspondance to her appearance, I think there is still a connection. The members of the London Clan resemble the traditional heraldic beasts of Britain. And in heraldry the boar was associated with the virtues of bravery and steadfastness. A common synonym for steadfastness is constancy, and from that "Constance."
Lani - [harshsaintcry at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Tue, Apr 22, 2008 4:35:07 pm EDT from 169.226.112.249

okay fine. VERY creepy. And yes, a little bit scary.
Chip - [Dragonhunter723 at yahoo dot com]
Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable. -- C.S. Lewis
posted @ Tue, Apr 22, 2008 4:11:03 pm EDT from 68.164.2.17

Chip - <That's just creepy.> Only creepy? That's well beyond creepy; it's scary.

Demonskrye - <But now, i think we can be pretty confident that s/he is blacklisted.> I sincerely hope so. What the person did is **pulls out measuring device and promptly discards it** so far beyond stupidity that it can't be measured.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happened to simplicity?
posted @ Tue, Apr 22, 2008 4:04:18 pm EDT from 98.20.148.220

Unsolicited Submission> Satisfying as it would be for us if we found out who the culprit was, I think that person is unlikely to confess and it probably wouldn't make much difference to us unless it's someone well known in the fandom, which I rather doubt. I imagine Greg know who this person is already, unless the person is far stupider than I think and didn't put a name or return address on the submission. Though I don't want to believe that this was done by a big fan, I can't imagine that anyone else would consider seeking out Greg''s home address and sending material there rather than sending it directly to SLG. And while I'd like to think it was just a case of ignorance, I dount anyone who knew enough about Greg to try to send him "Gargoyles" material wouldn't also be aware of his policy about looking at fanart and fanfiction. It's really sad that people have such a feeling of entitlement, that the rules are not intended for them, or that their stories are just so good that Greg HAS to see them. I've read fanfics and seen artwork that I think is really terrific and moving and insightful about canon characters. I've even written a fanfic that I hope is somewhat moving and insightful (though it's pretty old and could probably use a rewrite or two.) But never, even for a second have I thought "Greg really NEEDS to see this." There are cases where I think it would be nice if he could, but I've never felt all that sad about it.

Though we may well never know who this person is, we can be happy in the fact that s/he will probably never get work on a project Greg is involved with, assuming that s/he is even qualified to do so. Has this person had the talent and gone through normal channels, s/he might have been able to write for Spectacular Spider-Man or some future project of Greg's. But now, i think we can be pretty confident that s/he is blacklisted.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Tue, Apr 22, 2008 2:55:40 pm EDT from 209.6.248.33

Also agreed. That's just creepy.
Chip - [Dragonhunter723 at yahoo dot com]
Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable. -- C.S. Lewis
posted @ Tue, Apr 22, 2008 2:39:53 pm EDT from 68.164.2.17

PULSE> Agreed.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Tue, Apr 22, 2008 2:34:41 pm EDT from 75.60.190.106

UNSOLICITED SUBMISSION> I hope whoever did this fesses up and apologizes to Mr. Weisman.
(The Gargoyles Pulse - updated Mondays)
Anthony Tini
posted @ Tue, Apr 22, 2008 2:23:39 pm EDT from 159.240.11.254

Greg B> *blinks, edits it, and re-submits w/o another word.*
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Tue, Apr 22, 2008 1:46:29 pm EDT from 75.60.190.106

KC> Spotted it in two seconds:

"Shari (Sceherezade?)"

At this point, Shari's real identity is still technically a guess. Greg has not confirmed if she is Scheherezade or not. While at this point, it's still very likely, sorry, but it is technically an idea masquerading as a question.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Is that not the perfect visual image of life and death? A fish flapping on the carpet, and a fish not flapping on the carpet." - Bill AKA Snake Charmer
posted @ Tue, Apr 22, 2008 1:43:47 pm EDT from 75.56.245.4

Greg B> I'm pretty sure I did not break any rules, but here.

"3 months of waiting. This issue made it all worth it, and then some.

GARGOYLES #8.

*SPOILERS ABOUND. READ AT YOUR OWN RISK*

Nice little touches with Shari (Sceherezade?) and Thailog, and playing chess, no less. Somehow oddly fitting. I noticed that Shari gives two different versions of the Stone Of Destiny's arrival in Ireland. Which version, in your opinion, do you consider accurate?

Nice reference to Cu Challain. Props. Will Cu make a return in future issues?

Also, nice throwback to 'The Edge' with Thailog's 'I'd fire you if you did' in response to Shari's offer to pretend losing the Chess game.

Nice 'Monsters' reference as well. Damn, but this issue is stocked with references and episode homages. Geez. :D

'Coco'. Heh. Brought back memories of the "Original Broadway" when I read that. Again, props to you, Greg.

Staghart seems like a very cool (his crack about the kitchen sink at the end? LOL.) character.

I suspected that Staghart (having not known his name at the end of #7, I'd thought of him as 'that deer-like Gargoyle') = Amp. Nice to have confirmation of it. Although, for a time, I also wasn't sure if Lex was naming Staghart in that infamous panel from #7, or if he'd found a stray pet or something. At least I can stop wondering now.

Speaking of Staghart/Amp, I picked up on a few hints of a thing between him and Lex. Though I may also be reading too much into it.

More narrative time-jumping. I'm having trouble keeping the events of this arc chronologically straight. But then, that just makes it more interesting. Glad it's not a constant thing, however.

Great to see Griff again. Fighting the Steel Clan robots. Nice. He's even more bad-assed in the comics then he was in the series.

Knight's Spur. Very nice name for their habitat. How British sounding. I like it. And I also dig the panel with the London Clan in stone sleep, too.

Xanatos is at it again. No surprise to anyone who'd read the end of issue #6, but still... what is his game? And what IS the obsession with Fox's shoes? How do Fox's shoes play into the Stone of Destiny? *scratches head* You are evil, Greg. Keeping me guessing like that. EVIL. :P

More legend telling from Shari/Sceherezade. Nothing I can say about it that I haven't already in my #7 review.

I knew Hudson would escape his dismemberment (Coldsteel = heartless bastard.) but that last panel with Coldstone and Coldfire, out of the blue but I really should've seen it coming, was a great plot twist.

That's all I really have to say about this issue. Fun to read, great story, and the new characters (Staghart) seem really cool. Great twists and nice characterization (Griff rocks!) all sum this up into one neat, nicely-written package.

Bring on #9."
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Tue, Apr 22, 2008 1:38:43 pm EDT from 75.60.190.106

KingCobra> If it was deleted, obviously you broke a rule. Re-post it here, Todd will tell you what you did wrong and stop whining.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Is that not the perfect visual image of life and death? A fish flapping on the carpet, and a fish not flapping on the carpet." - Bill AKA Snake Charmer
posted @ Tue, Apr 22, 2008 1:30:51 pm EDT from 75.56.245.4

sorry for the double comment. I meant to say 're-submit'.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Tue, Apr 22, 2008 1:28:57 pm EDT from 75.60.190.106

What the hell happened to my #8 review?! It was only 3 questions away from being responded to, (and now should've been by now) but now it's not under 'Latest Responses' or 'Unanswered Questions'. It's not anyhwere!

I KNOW I did not break ANY station 8 rules with my review, so why did it get deleted at the last second??? Please tell me that I do NOT have to submit it!

*flustered and annoyed*

Sorry if I'm being too forward about it, but this threw me for a loop.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Tue, Apr 22, 2008 1:28:08 pm EDT from 75.60.190.106

So . . . another sorta-off topic post . . . but nevertheless I think it'll entertain a couple here :)

So, my roommate and I just finished the the Hunter's Moon three-parter LATE last night. Needless to say, he was both thrilled and sad that he saw the finale. That's where I reminded him that the story still continued in the comics . . . but as it was so late, he would have to wait AT LEAST until today.

But that's when I began to wonder . . . SHOULD I let him read them so quickly after Hunter's Moon? Or should I let him wait a little bit? And if you do think the latter, how long should he wait? :P

Now, Serious N.B. -- I'm not going to be uber-cruel and making him wait weeks and weeks and God knows how long . . . especially with BG#2 coming out next Wednesday. In all honesty, I'll give him the comics hopefully before Friday, at a point when both our schedules aren't as hectic. But the situation seems so odd and random (granted, mostly because of my musings), but yeah, PLEASE take the question above with some implied humor.
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Tue, Apr 22, 2008 1:27:24 pm EDT from 157.242.210.104

The only reason I'm fumin' slightly is because I go to 3 different message boards to spread the word and post when the comic will be out. Using the information from SLG's site and Diamond's expected list from last week, I posted with confidence that the comic would be out this week. So I look the fool and that does not make me happy regardless of my natural impatience for delays.
(The Gargoyles Pulse - updated Mondays)
Anthony Tini
posted @ Tue, Apr 22, 2008 9:19:16 am EDT from 159.240.11.254

Sorry for the double post, but April 30 (when "Bad Guys" #2 is apparently due out now) is also (or so it seems at present) when the first volume of "Gunnerkrigg Court" (subtitled "Orientation") is due to be published. When I go down to Starclipper Comics next Wednesday, I intend to see if it's out on the shelves yet, and to ask the store to order it if it isn't. I've enjoyed its webcomic form, and I recommend it to anyone who likes British fantasy, especially since it's done a remarkable thing: telling a story about a child with unusual abilities at an equally unusual British boarding school at the edge of a dark and sinister forest without reading like a "Harry Potter" rip-off. And it features cameos from the Minotaur (with an even more revisionist take on his story than Taurus supplied in "The New Olympians") and Coyote (though he looks far more canid than his "Cloud Fathers" counterpart).
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Tue, Apr 22, 2008 8:53:00 am EDT from 4.244.214.145

* SPOILERS IN CASE ANYONE HERE HASN'T READ #8 YET - THOUGH THAT'S UNLIKELY *

I thought of Pog and Lunette, but we haven't met them yet - not on the same level that we've met the other named London clan members. They're still just names at this point, while we've become as familiar with Constance and Staghart and what they're like as we are with Leo, Una, and Griff.

* SPOILERS END *
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Tue, Apr 22, 2008 7:40:16 am EDT from 4.244.212.57

Very Mild SPOILERS Ahead

Todd> I don't have a lot of warm fuzzy feelings about monopolistic Diamond, but to be fair, I don't think the problem is so much them. Slave Labor presumably gave them that date and as recently as last week, both they and Diamond believed the comic would be out this Wednesday. Sometime between then and today, it became clear that it wouldn't and Diamond moved it to next week. Does this mean that Diamond's list of Upcoming Releases (as opposed to the current week's New Releases) is not guaranteed 100% accurate? Sure. But If you went back and looked at last week's Upcoming Releases, I'd be willing to bet that 90% or more of them are coming out this week as promised. The problem is not so much that Diamond is inaccurate and not trustworthy (at least when it comes to comic release dates). The problem is that the information Diamond gets doesn't always hold up. I don't even really blame Slave Labor for that. We know the kinds of issues they've had that are often not under their control. I believe that they told Diamond the book would come out this week fully believing it would. I totally understand the frustration of so many delays and missed release dates. But from the perspective of both companies, it's better to put a release date out there and then have to revise it than to not announce a release date and "surprise" retailers and buyer with the book.

Matt> I'm not sure how much background we're going to get on Coco, assuming that the London Clan still practices communal parenting. If we're lucky, we may see some gargoyles who we might be able to identify as her biological parents through appearance and coloration. Given that most of the London Clan gargoyles seem to have feathered wings, I wonder if Constance has some Scottish ancestry, which would fit with Griff being able to identify Goliath as "Scottish stock". Though even if it were the case, we might not be able to tell and she wouldn't know.

Going back to Todd's comments, it's also highly unlikely that Lunette is named after the animal she resembles and we're only assuming that "Pog" is a hip*pog*riff and is so named because of that. And even if Lunette is Leo and Una's daughter, her name sounding like a combination of the two would be just coincidence if the clan parents communally.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Mon, Apr 21, 2008 8:35:09 pm EDT from 209.6.248.33

Darn it...I can't seem to upload my story onto Gargoyles-Fans.org...it doesn't like the format of my flash drive or something. Oh well, my fix has been ebbed by Greg's Response to my review. AHHHHH
Chip - [Dragonhunter723 at yahoo dot com]
Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable. -- C.S. Lewis
posted @ Mon, Apr 21, 2008 7:08:23 pm EDT from 68.164.3.121

It's only a week. No need to fume or complain.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Is that not the perfect visual image of life and death? A fish flapping on the carpet, and a fish not flapping on the carpet." - Bill AKA Snake Charmer
posted @ Mon, Apr 21, 2008 7:05:29 pm EDT from 75.56.245.4

Chip> Look at the blue links on the left side of the screen and try the 'Gargoyles Fan Website' link. You will have to create an account, and there's no 'leave a review' option, but it's still a fanfic site.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Mon, Apr 21, 2008 6:41:42 pm EDT from 75.60.190.106

Chip : I'd recommend going to www.gargoyles-fans.org. On the main page there's a link to the fanfic section. Of course, there are no guarantees about anyone reviewing it, but there are still some people who read the 'fics there. (I'd review them myself, but I don't have much time on my hands lately, so I only read the fanfiction of authors I'm familier with.)
Spen
"Come along. You belong. Feel the fizz."
posted @ Mon, Apr 21, 2008 6:37:59 pm EDT from 66.43.205.110

Sorry for the double post.

Todd> Constance is also the only London Clan gargoyle with leathery wings and that was a conscious design point made by Greg Weisman. I'm very curious about her origins and backstory.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Mon, Apr 21, 2008 6:34:29 pm EDT from 70.237.249.216

Charisma> Gargoyles cannot reproduce with humans, bats, large cats (or small ones for that matter), or electric eels. So there is no reason to think a gargoyle could reproduce with a conglomerate of these forms.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Mon, Apr 21, 2008 6:32:35 pm EDT from 70.237.249.216

I think that part of the fuming is that Diamond has a history of announcing that an issue of the comic book will come out on a certain week, and then, a while later, announcing that it's really not due until the following week. When a person makes a certain mistake, that's not considered a big deal, but when he or she makes the same kind of mistake several times, they start getting a reputation for being untrustworthy.

On to other things. Has anybody noticed that Constance is the only member of the London clan whom we've met so far whose name doesn't have any connection to the animal that she's modelled upon? Leo looks like a lion, and "Leo" is the Latin word for "lion". "Una" and "Griff" are clearly derived from "unicorn" and "griffon", and "Staghart" is a blend of two words for a male deer. But Constance's name isn't tied to any terms for wild boar at all (at least, none that I know of).

Greg probably chose that name because he needed something to derive "Coco" from. Though the London clan is connected to King Arthur, and Arthur had a grandfather named Constantine and an uncle named Constans (though I think that the "Coco" theory is much more likely).
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Mon, Apr 21, 2008 6:31:31 pm EDT from 4.244.208.126

Charisma > I don't think it would even be possible for one of the mutates and one of the gargoyles to have a child together naturally. Though they look similar, they are very different biologically.

I think the only way a half gargoyle/half mutate would come about is if Sevarius, or someone like him, created it. And in that case, whether or not the creature would turn to stone would depend on which genes Sevarius decided to keep, and which ones he decided to toss. Personally, I think he'd toss the turn-to-stone genes and keep the genes that allow the mutates to carry electrical charges. This seems like a much more useful power source than thermal energy gained during stone sleep--there's no 12 hour period of total vulnerability, and plus the electric charges can be used as weapons.
Rebel
posted @ Mon, Apr 21, 2008 6:18:26 pm EDT from 216.45.251.210

Patrick> Nothing wrong with April 30th, though the 23 was more appropriate for Gargoyles. I guess I am used to the delays as well, but darn it: when Bad Guys and #7 came out back in Nov/Dec...it spoiled me. I yearn for a gargoyles fix that has me turing to fanfiction. My own and others. Speaking of which...nobody reviews me on Fanfiction.net. Is there a gargoyles fanfic website I can re-post my stuff on where more people might read it?
Chip - [Dragonhunter723 at yahoo dot com]
Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable. -- C.S. Lewis
posted @ Mon, Apr 21, 2008 5:50:50 pm EDT from 68.164.3.121

I half-expected there to be a delay in releasing bg #2. So long as it makes it this month. I also noticed that Wonderland #6 is being released next week too, yet I don't find a mention of it at all on the slg website for being released anytime within the next 3 months. Is that a different Wonderland comic than the one slg is releasing?
dph_of_rules
Whatever happened to simplicity?
posted @ Mon, Apr 21, 2008 5:38:57 pm EDT from 98.20.148.220

That's too bad about BG#2. But hey, I'd rather wait an extra week than say, an extra month.

Going to sleep last night, this question popped into my mind, and I don't know if it has been answered before, so I thought I'd post it in here before I asked Greg. If one of the mutates (Talon, Maggie, Claw, & Fang... I'm sure you all knew who I was talking about without naming them, but still) mated with a gargoyle and they had a child, would their child turn to stone during the day? I have a feeling it might lean more toward turning to stone, than not turning to stone, but still, what if the mutate parent's genes took over the situation and they didn't turn to stone. Then there would be some gargoyles out there that aren't complete mutates, who don't turn to stone. How do they get their strength and stuff if they don't turn to stone? Okay, I've rambled too much now. Thanks ahead of time for those who choose to take pity on me and stop my mind from pointlessly wondering about this subject too much.
Charisma82
"It's better to have a horrible ending than to have horrors without end."
posted @ Mon, Apr 21, 2008 5:11:16 pm EDT from 64.13.117.74

Bad Guys #2 Delay> To anyone who hasn't directly experienced this before, yes it's upsetting, but it does happen to pretty much all comics publishers from time to time. It's not that Diamond messed up; it's not that Slave Labor hates you; it's not that Disney wants the comic to fail. Slave Labor thought they would be able to have the comic ready to be in stores this Wednesday and they told Diamond that. Diamond put it on the shipping list for this week. Something came up, the comic wasn't ready in time, and the date got pushed back a week. Like I said, it's been known to happen. While it's frustrating, it's certainly not cause for gloom and doom. I've pretty much accepted the fact that these comics cme out when they come out. Again, not ideal, but it's the reality of the situation and I'd rather live with it than pin all my hopes on an issue showing up on a particular week.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Mon, Apr 21, 2008 5:08:35 pm EDT from 209.6.248.33

What's wrong with April 30th?

67 days left until The Gathering 2008 in Chicago, Illinois!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Mon, Apr 21, 2008 5:03:33 pm EDT from 76.205.111.62

WHAT!?!
Chip - [Dragonhunter723 at yahoo dot com]
Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable. -- C.S. Lewis
posted @ Mon, Apr 21, 2008 4:30:27 pm EDT from 68.164.3.121

According to Diamond, Bad Guys #2 is expected 4/30. ::fuming::
(The Gargoyles Pulse - updated Mondays)
Anthony Tini
posted @ Mon, Apr 21, 2008 4:26:57 pm EDT from 159.240.11.254

SomethingWicked> Welcome. :)
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Mon, Apr 21, 2008 2:28:46 pm EDT from 75.60.190.106

SmthingWickedThisWayComes > The gargoyles comic has a fairly small, but highly devoted, fan base. What this means is that your local comic shop may not carry the gargoyles comic or bad guys. You might have to request that they start ordering a copy or two for you. That's what I had to do. My local comic shop is TINY, and he mostly orders the mainstream stuff, so when I want to read a more obscure comic, I have to go to the store owner and request that he order it.
Rebel
posted @ Mon, Apr 21, 2008 12:37:12 pm EDT from 216.45.251.210

Todd> You're right, of course. As soon as I saw the name I immediately thought of the song that the kids sing at the beginning of Harry Potter 3. I didn't realize it was from "MacBeth" and a book titled it.
(The Gargoyles Pulse - updated Mondays)
Anthony Tini
posted @ Mon, Apr 21, 2008 11:19:23 am EDT from 159.240.11.254

TINI - Smthing might be a fan of Shakespeare's "Macbeth" or a Ray Bradbury fan. Shakespeare came up with the "Something wicked this way comes" line first, and Bradbury beat Rowling to it.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Apr 21, 2008 10:16:41 am EDT from 198.209.226.130

SmthingWickedThisWayComes> First, off welcome. By your name, I'm assuming you're a Harry Potter fan. Great books. Great movies. I'll attempt to answer your questions best I can.

Traffic? On a normal week, the traffic is pretty standard. On a non-normal week, like this week with the imminent release of Bad Guys #2 this Wednesday, there will be spoilers abound, people running stop signs and red lights and no yielding what so ever. Enjoy the ride, but don't spoiler yourself until you get the comics. People here are usually pretty good about marking their spoiler-esque posts, but none of us are perfect, just be cautious.

How good it the comic? The simplest way I can describe the comic, is that every time a new one is released, it is feels like Christmas morning. It's wonderful to read and the writing is fantastic. The art has been exceptional thus far and appears to be at a level where it looks just as it used when it was on TV. You can actually hear the characters voices in your head when you read it. You'll discover something new each time you pick it up.

Convention? I've never been to one either, but if you go to Search and type convention, you get a 153 records and can read all about old conventions. This site will help you discover what's happening this year: http://www.gatheringofthegargoyles.com/g2008/
If you stick around here, people who attend will post their reviews and experiences and they are very interesting to read.

So again, welcome. I'm glad you found us. I hope you enjoy your time here. Just to warn you, don't fall victim to any of the classic blunders! The most famous is never get involved in a land war in Asia, but only slightly less well-known is this: never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha...
(The Gargoyles Pulse - updated Mondays)
Anthony Tini
posted @ Mon, Apr 21, 2008 10:14:17 am EDT from 159.240.11.254

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