Spectacular Spider-Man

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Another strong outing from what might be the greatest superhero toon of all time

After seeing the timid nebbish Dr. Octavius over the course of the series, I was wondering how they were going to handle his transformation into a crazed supervillain. Peter MacNicol deserves some kind of award for so perfectly capturing all the power and arrogance of Doctor Octopus. I especially liked Otto's little "daydream" while being chewed out by Norman.

The whole High School Soap Opera aspect of the show continues to be surprisingly engaging. Harry's continuing downward spiral makes for pretty heavy TV and puts the lie to anyone who still dismisses this show as kiddy fare.

I have to admit though I was expecting to see more of the Green Goblin, since the episode blurb implied he'd play a larger role. Considering all the other stuff going on in this episode that's probably just greedy of me. Still I hope we get to see a Octopus vs. Goblin smack down at some point in the future.
Algernon
"Nobody can say I wasn't a perfect father, do you hear..? Nobody !" - Norman Osborn
posted @ Sun, May 4, 2008 6:40:33 pm EDT from 86.41.207.19

Demonskyre > "Any thoughts as to why Hunter would even bring up the "stick" when the "carrot" seemed like it would be so tempting to Yama?"

I was wondering about this earlier. It irks me a little, because it seems like Hunter should be smart enough (as well as knowledgeable enough) to realize that threatening a gargoyle's clan is NO WAY to deal with a gargoyle.

I guess maybe Hunter's actions here are supposed to indicate that, as of right now, she DOESN'T know better, and is also still harboring some of her old prejudices (old habits die hard).
Rebel
posted @ Sun, May 4, 2008 10:34:45 am EDT from 216.45.251.210

Fot out for a comics run yesterday and picked up my copy of Bad Guys #2. My feeling is that the book is still in the warming up stage. Don't get me wrong; I enjoyed it, but we are still very much in the character introduction stage and we've still got Hunter's background and Fang's recruitment to cover. The background stuff is interesting to be certain, but I'm really looking forward to the point where we can see what kind of missions this team is going to tackle and see how the different personalities interact. We're getting a sense of that here and there, but I want to see it full force.

I think my one real regret is that we didn't get to see any more Ishimura clan gargoyles. It's true that we have already seen more of that clan in the show than we did the London clan, but it would have been nice to see them again. For Yama's sake, I hope that bushido is pretty clear on what he has to do to regain his honor, because if not, it may be a very long time before he can judge himself cleared of the dishonor of betraying his clan. My guess as to why Sora would suggest that Yama judge himself when it was clear he would be a very tough judge to please is that she knew he wouldn't be truly satisfied by anyone else telling him his honor was destroyed. I don't recall if Greg has mentioned before that a gargoyle's mate can accompany him or her into banishment, but it's in the fanfic I wrote a while ago, so it's nice to know my instincts were correct, assuming it wasn't something that came up in Ask Greg.

Any thoughts as to why Hunter would even bring up the "stick" when the "carrot" seemed like it would be so tempting to Yama?

An all around fun issue that leaves a lot to look forward to, especially when we get to Fang's story.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Sun, May 4, 2008 9:02:08 am EDT from 209.6.248.33

Greg B: I totally agree with you about Norman being a mask for the Goblin, it's one of the reasons I've always though GG would have made an awesome Batman villain. That said one of the things I've always liked about comic Gobby, particularly in his more modern depictions, is that he's just as dangerous a villain in his civilian id if not more so then when he's flying around in a gaudy costume throwing pumpkin bombs at people.

Look at the rest of spidey's rogues gallery, Doc Ock, Venom, Lizard etc. take away their robotic tentacles, alien symbiotes and reptile DNA and they're just a bunch a mooks, but Norman is still a calculating, ruthless, psychotic SOB. In fact I'd almost go as far as to say that it's Norman Osborn who is Peter's archnemesis rather then the Green Goblin.

Thats probably why I think this show's version of Norman is one of my favorite's, he'd already been making Spidey's life hell for half a season before the Green Goblin even showed up.
Algernon
"Nobody can say I wasn't a perfect father, do you hear..? Nobody !" - Norman Osborn
posted @ Sun, May 4, 2008 6:34:56 am EDT from 86.41.207.19

As soon as I saw that spear, I was thinking the same thing.

Another great contrast between Peter Parker and Norman Osborn is how their alter-egos mean different things to them. Peter would love to be able to quit being Spider-Man. He would love to just be a normal guy. But he can't. Whereas, I think Norman Osborn would rather quit being Norman Osborn than the Green Goblin. He needs to be the Green Goblin. Not to mention that Spider-Man is always Peter Parker, even when he's wearing the mask, he's still Peter Parker. Norman Osborn on the other hand is always the Goblin.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"In 1977, George Lucas' "Star Wars" was released, and the intellectual and art side of filmmaking and filmgoing has been scattered to the four winds ever since."
posted @ Sat, May 3, 2008 9:34:26 pm EDT from 75.56.245.4

Green Goblin> One of the things i find interesting about the Goblin is that he kind of serves the same role for Osborn as Spider-Man does for Peter. Though Peter put on the costume for reasons of responsibility, it also gives him a confidence that he seldom shows in his "civilian" life. While Osborn is certainly not a good person on a normal day, the Goblin mask allows him to completely cut loose and go beyond corporate ruthlessness into total ruthlessness.

Since we're on the topic, has anyone thought that the fact that the goblin glider comes with a number of blades in its "mouth" might be pointing towards a comic-styled impaled on his own glider death for Osborn? (Possibly temporary if Greg and his writers are sticking close to the comics.) I wouldn't think that S&P would go for it, but then again, they let Brainiac get away with doing some pretty nasty things to Imperiex (offscreen) in the show's finale, so you never know.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Sat, May 3, 2008 9:31:36 pm EDT from 209.6.248.33

Greg B: <Yeah, Osborn was never a nice guy.> Heck, what did Osborn do in the first episode of this cartoon? He ripped off Toomes, and he knew what he was doing. Even said as much to Adrian.

Still, I love listening to him talk. Alan Rachins could simply be reading the ingredients off the label of a bottle of ketchup, and I'd be hanging on every word.

<The whole split personality was an invention of John Semper in the 90s cartoon,> Do I even want to know?

WARNING: POSSIBLE SPOILERS.
Speaking of which, after watching the most recent episode, I have to say I find it amusing that losing your sanity in fiction always makes you more verbose and prone to speeches. Although, I suppose Octavius doesn't really count. I think he's always had a good vocabulary. Getting his brain fried just cured him of his timidity. As well as robbing him of any regard he has for human life. But that's why we love Doctor Octopus. ( ;
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"I do not apologize, old man!" -Norman Osborn ("Spectacular Spider-Man").
posted @ Sat, May 3, 2008 9:07:46 pm EDT from 76.123.52.7

No problem.

Yeah, Osborn was never a nice guy. If you know your Spidey lore, you know about how he screwed over and stole from his partner, Mendell Stromm, just so he could take sole control of OsCorp. Always a corrupt crook.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"In 1977, George Lucas' "Star Wars" was released, and the intellectual and art side of filmmaking and filmgoing has been scattered to the four winds ever since."
posted @ Sat, May 3, 2008 8:01:58 pm EDT from 75.56.245.4

Greg B> Argh, you're right and I'm embarassed! I think part of the reason I forgot that it was amnesia rather than multiple personality disorder is that it actually makes a lot more sense that no one seems to want to remind Norman that he's the Goblin or hold him accountable for what he did if he's truly innocent and was never aware of what the Goblin was doing rather than that he just conveniently "forgot". Thanks for correcting me. I feel silly.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Sat, May 3, 2008 7:59:44 pm EDT from 209.6.248.33

* SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN SPOILERS *

I enjoyed this episode (as usual). I'd been intrigued by Dr. Octavius's portrayal as a meek, timid fellow, and wondered what would change all that. And I liked what I saw - the "worm finally turns" scenario, as the accident proves the catalyst for Doc Ock deciding that he's had enough of Norman Osborn pushing him about. (I especially liked the moment where he's briefly fantasizing about getting even with Norman even before the accident takes place.)

Wouldn't you know that Peter would win a stuffed octopus at Coney Island?

Harry's descent into junkiehood continues, and I agree with Bishansky that it's most likely a red herring. At least Gwen's getting suspicious.

Nobody's mentioned the space flight yet, but I'm certain that it and John Jameson are going to be important in the upcoming episodes - especially since I have dim memories of John Jameson's mission being important in other versions of "Spider-Man". (I vaguely recall it being a case of "It brought back something that doesn't belong on our planet".)

* SPOILERS END *
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Sat, May 3, 2008 7:07:05 pm EDT from 4.244.208.2

"Dr. Twaki" of "Tricorp?" Aw, geez, Greg, did you have to go there? I understand your desire to use only comic characters, but I'm trying to forget the Mackie/Byrne era ever happened.

Anyway, as has been said, another great episode (aren't they all?). Otto got a terrific characterization- I didn't recognize Peter MacNiccol, but I've always liked him. The chip thing at the top of his spine looked like the one from S-M 2, but fortunately they did not use the silly idea of the arms controlling his brain. I wish he hadn't been caught at the end, though- Ock is a serious enough threat that it would've been nice to have him still at large. Then again, with the Goblin and the Big Man, Spidey's got his hands full. I'm sure Ock will reappear in future eps.

Going out to dinner- more thoughts later.
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Sat, May 3, 2008 6:53:00 pm EDT from 68.59.10.242

Ah, yes, the popular Norman Osborn has a split personality misconception.

Norman Osborn never had a split personality in the comics. Ever. I just re-read all the original Green Goblin stories up until his apparent death. Norman was the Goblin and up until the recurring amnesia, was always aware of his actions. He never changed into another person, he simply remembered that he was the Green Goblin.

Since his return, he's never had any of that recurring amnesia, which IMO is a dated plot device anyway concocted at a time when we had less of an understanding of mental illness anyway.

The whole split personality was an invention of John Semper in the 90s cartoon, and was perpetuated in the movie. Making it a very popular misconception of who that character is.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"In 1977, George Lucas' "Star Wars" was released, and the intellectual and art side of filmmaking and filmgoing has been scattered to the four winds ever since."
posted @ Sat, May 3, 2008 5:43:03 pm EDT from 75.56.245.4

SPECTACULAR SPIDER SPOILERS

Just a few quick thoughts.

Another top notch episode with more great fight scenes, a nice low-key "Spidey finds villain's Achilles heel" scenario, and some good Peter stuff. And a gargoyle.

Anyone else thinking that Otto had an overbearing if not outright abusive parent/s that led him to this state? The scene where he's caught in the experiment seems to point in that direction.

It was nice to see that things aren't going to be instant happily ever after for Peter and MJ. And did I say he had two lovely young women after him last week? Guess i counted Liz out too soon.

I agree that Harry using the goblin formula is a red herring and a nice S&P safe way to get his drug addiiction onto the show. For anyone who doesn't remember the original comics, keep in mind that ol' Norman actually has multiple personality disorder and is totally unaware that he has a side that likes to ride a glider and toss pumpkin bombs around for quite some time, so it's totally plausible that he would honestly have no knowledge of the Goblin's actions.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Sat, May 3, 2008 5:35:29 pm EDT from 209.6.248.33

Just got back from the theater. "Iron Man" rocked like no movie has ever rocked before. By far the best film in the Marvel franchise to date. It puts "X-men" and "Spider-Man" to shame. If you haven't seen it yet, what are you waiting for? GO SEE IT. And DO NOT leave before the credits are done running, or you will miss something hella cool.

55 days left until The Gathering 2008 in Chicago, Illinois!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Sat, May 3, 2008 5:04:24 pm EDT from 76.205.74.161

*** SPECTACULAR SPOILERS ***

"Reactions"
Well, my reaction is that was certainly an awesome episode.

Let's see, where to begin. I've been waiting to see Otto's transformation and it was well done. Gone is the meek, subservient Otto "Yes, Mr. Osborn. Whatever you say, Mr. Osborn" Octavius, and now we have the the ruthless and psychotic Dr. Octopus. I need to extend my compliments to Peter MacNicol for the contrast in both versions of the good doctor.

The Spider-Man/Dr. Octopus battles were great. From their first encounter at OsCorp, where Ock in his paranoia believed that Spidey discovered he created supervillains to the attack on Tri Corp and their battle at Coney Island (Enjoy Coney Island while it's there, it's being torn down). And damn, not too long ago, Otto could probably never bring himself to put a girl like Liz in harm's way. How he's changed. I look forward to him leading the Sinister Six.

"My fans expect a certain amount of quipage in every battle." You tell him, Spidey! That was one of the many reasons the movies were a disappointment.

But, Peter Parker's civilian life is always just as interesting as his superhero life. Poor sap, thought he and Mary Jane had something going. Not yet, Pete. Your time will come, be patient... but be warned, Joe Quesada... er, I mean, Mephisto will conspire to take it away from you. In the mean time, enjoy your time with Liz. And with Liz and Flash now broken up, he might have a shot there.

Let's see. Peter wins an octopus for Liz. Ock is defeated on the octopus ride. And this is the eighth episode. Cute. Very cute.

Harry Osborn is now a junkie. Just like in the original comics, only instead of acid, he's been raiding his dad's medicine cabinet for Globulin Green #994. It's a good way to do Stan Lee's drug story without using a real drug that would make S&P balk. It explains why he's good at football all of a sudden. It's a steroid story without steroids. Cool.

But not to go unmentioned, the Green Goblin plot line is advanced. Norman Osborn is such an asshole, first berating Otto, then feigning concern when he's the one who tried to kill him. While the Harry red herring is being done well, I just can't believe that he's the Goblin. If he were, he'd have attacked the Fall Formal and gone after Kenny in the previous episode. He has no reason to go after the Big Man, and the only place we heard Norman call the Big Man "Lincoln" was in the subterranean lab. Norman knows Otto is a liability. This all fits in with Norman's modus operandi. Not to mention having two close friends of Peter go arch villain on us this season would be redundant. We still have Eddie Brock becoming Venom in a few more episodes.

Still a terrific episode, and I look forward to the mystery being resolved next week.

*** END SPOILERS ***
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"In 1977, George Lucas' "Star Wars" was released, and the intellectual and art side of filmmaking and filmgoing has been scattered to the four winds ever since."
posted @ Sat, May 3, 2008 1:56:36 pm EDT from 75.56.245.4

Heh -- I'm actually the first to talk about the new Spiderman episode. Go Figure.

***SPOILERS***

Needless to say great stuff -- from Spiderman saving Gwen, MJ, AND Liz to even more perplexing mystery on the Green Goblin (I still say it's Norman, but man, I was almost thinking otherwise).

Speaking of which, if it isn't Harry (and I'm hoping it isn't), then Greg and team are really doing some great stuff for Harry's drug problems. I can only wonder what's going to happen next.

Liz gets a little octapus. Cute.

Poor Liz and Gwen . . . this relationship stuff is getting pretty darn complicated at M-cubed --

Gwen likes Pete, not sure about Harry
Pete likes MJ & Liz
Liz likes Flash
Flash likes MJ
Harry got used by Gloria.
MJ doesn't seem to 'picked' anyone JUST yet.

I'm sure there's some others, but my head's already spinning. :)

Some amazing lines (some inacurracies, but oh well):

"Do you EVER SHUT-UP?!" (priceless)
"Nope -- my fans expect a certain amount of quippage in every battle"

"Typical Parker, leaving me hanging with the bags . . . no offense ladies" (freakin' Flash)

Love the little reference to Spider-man 2 with Spidey stopping the unbrake-able semi. (it may have been in the comics too, but I wouldn't know)

And next week we see more Goblin and -- is it Halloween? If it is, then MAN, Peter has had a rough two months of school, hasn't he? (but hey, maybe we'll finally see Flash in that cheerleader uniform XD)

***END OF SPOILERS***
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Sat, May 3, 2008 1:43:57 pm EDT from 157.242.221.210

Well, on an unrelated note, I've just purchased one of those newfangled infrared ovens I've heard so much about. It should be here in 5 - 9 days. My roommates are all moving out for the summer in a week, so I'm going to have the whole place (as well as plenty of space) to myself. It will be nice to be able to put things where I want without worrying about anyone else's opinion. In addition to that, peace and quiet, here I come! It's gonna be a goooood summer.
Rebel
posted @ Sat, May 3, 2008 1:37:29 pm EDT from 216.45.251.210

Todd> Thanks again for the info. My memory of "The Wicked Day" must be more shaky than I thought, as even with you telling me about it, I have virtually no memory of Ling Lot even being in the book.

I think the audience perception of all these "kill someone who is currently innocent but will commit horrible crimes later" stories is influenced a lot by foreknowledge and hindsight. We know that fate is inescapable and events are fixed - especially when it's a story we already know. The characters in the story generally do not know this. On the one hand, we know that Mordred will bring about the fall of Camelot as Arthur has been told, so we can at least see the reasoning in his actions and know that he is right to worry (putting aside versions where Arthur just thinks mass infanticide is a good way to cover up unintentional incest.) On the other hand, we know that Arthur is going to fail to kill Mordred, so we can more easily condemn him for causing the death of all the other babies for no reason. Arthur does have it on pretty good authority that Mordred is going to be a problem and it turns out that he's right. (I'm not sure if there are any versions of the story in which we're supposed to question Arthur's belief that Mordred would grow to do evil things.) But Arthur does not know that he's going to fail to kill Mordred. Not unless the particular version clearly sets out that Mordred is an inescapable fate, in which case Arthur's actions become pretty much unforgivable. If Arthur was pretty damn sure that Mordred was going to bring about the fall of Camelot and he somehow did succeed in killing Mordred along with the other babies, would his actions be more forgivable because of the success or less because he had killed many total innocents and one baby who was going to do something wrong in the future? I do like the idea that Mordred is in some ways just a convenient catalyst for the fall of both Arthur and Camelot before both can decline and fall on their own. But again, Arthur has no way of knowing that his glory days will be past when Mordred goes to work, nor would he necessarily know that it's the case when Mordred actually does show up.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Sat, May 3, 2008 9:29:19 am EDT from 209.6.248.33

* SPOILERS *

Taro employing Vinnie is still canon-in-training, but it's a step closer to becoming canon now that we know that Vinnie's on his way to Ishimura (once he works out how to get there - which, knowing him, will probably take a while longer).

I hope that we get to see his response when he finally arrives at it and discovers that there's an entire gargoyle clan living there. Of all the towns and villages of Japan he might have been employed in....

* SPOILERS END *
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Sat, May 3, 2008 6:37:36 am EDT from 4.244.210.192

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Seeing Vinnie's appearance makes me wonder the exact reasoning for his employment. I mean, does Taro have any business operations or property that he wants to have guarded that believe Kai and the clan would interfere with or something? Or is the idea of Taro employing him still canon in training?
Antiyonder
posted @ Fri, May 2, 2008 10:48:49 pm EDT from 71.115.253.179

DEMONSKRYE - In "The Wicked Day", the May Day Decree isn't even carried out by Arthur, but by King Lot, Mordred's stepfather, out of anger at discovering that "his" new son is really Arthur's rather than his own - and encouraged by Morgause (portrayed in both White and Stewart as evil and hostile towards Arthur - though there's no trace of that in Malory) because she can then put the blame on Arthur and blacken his name for propaganda purposes. (She's sent Mordred away already to the peasant family, out of Lot's range.)

I agree about the dilemma concerning the infant Mordred (though some versions make Arthur seem more motivated by a desire to cover up the incest than to avert the prophecy). It reminds me of an episode of "Dr. Who" (starring the Tom Baker version of the Doctor), in which the Doctor is sent on a mission to prevent the Daleks from having ever existed. He has the opportunity to wipe them all out before they can be unleashed upon the universe, but hesitates, saying, "If someone who knew the future pointed out a child to you and told you that the child would grow up... to be a ruthless dictator who would destroy millions of lives, could you then kill that child?... Do I have that right?"

Of course, if Mordred is killed before he grows up to become a villain and destroy Camelot, that means he never became guilty of any crime, and therefore Arthur has unjustly put an innocent to death. Also, many versions of the story portray Camelot as already heading into a quiet decline by the time that Mordred strikes (all the big quests have been fulfilled, especially the Quest of the Holy Grail, and there's nothing left for Arthur and his knights to do). In "The Wicked Day", Nimue tells Mordred that Merlin saw "in the moment of Arthur's death his glory would have reached and passed its fulness, but... by that death the glory would live on to be a light and a trumpet-call and a breath of life for men to come."

One of King Arthur's chief emulators during the Middle Ages was King Edward III of England, who achieved fame early on by his successes in the Hundred Years' War, such as at the Battle of Crecy and the siege of Calais; he also founded the Order of the Garter, in emulation of the knights of the Round Table. But as Edward's reign continued, his splendor began to decline. England was ravaged by the Black Death, the French started to push the English back under improving leadership, and Edward became senile and fell under the control of a gold-digging mistress named Alice Perrers (who, when he died, pulled the rings off his fingers and split). Perhaps Mordred saved Arthur and Camelot from a similar fate.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Fri, May 2, 2008 10:18:58 pm EDT from 4.244.209.130

Todd> Thanks for the additional info. It's been years since I read "The Once and Future King" (which is probably the closest thing I've ever read to s "normal" version of the stories of Camelot), so I didn't recall exactly how it worked and I imagine the Malory version is pretty different anyway. I do remember that the May Day Decree happened in White's version of events and that Arthur felt both guilt and remorse for it later on. If I remember right, that guilt partially leads to him treating Mordred rather well when the bastard does show up at Camelot. I don't, however, recall if White tries to make any more sense of the issues Malory skips over. Again, it's been a while, but if memory serves, "The Wicked Day" actually has Mordred given to a random peasant family for safe keeping and only coming to live with Morgause and the Orkney kids later on, which would make the "drown all the babies born around that time" plan a little more sensible, if no less horrific. For the life of me though, I can't remember if the May Day Decree happens in that particular book and I haven't read any of the others in the series to know if it's in there.

I like the webcomic's solution, but I think part of what Greg finds interesting is the idea that an otherwise good and noble person could do something so terrible and cruel out of fear of the future. Greg points out in one of his answers about the May Day Decree that in about 99% of the stories and legends like it, it's the villain of the story who is trying to prevent an infant from growing into a hero who will cause his downfall, resulting in the villain frequently resorting to mass infanticide. The King Arthur legend is the rare story where it's the hero who resorts to killing numerous babies to prevent one baby from growing up to cause great evil. If you rework it so Arthur bears less, if any responsibility, it takes away a lot of the interesting moral dilemma.

This would be a much more difficult conversation if you had never told me that there was a name for Arthur ordering all the babies that could be Mordred put on a boat and set adrift to meet their fate had a name, Todd. Thank you.

This conversation would be a lot more awkward if you hadn't told me there was a name for
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Fri, May 2, 2008 8:12:07 pm EDT from 209.6.248.33

Chip> Most, but not all, of my troubles were at the Maplewood Fantasy Shop. And hey, if FS works for you, great! But I had so many issues with them (pun intended) that I couldn't justify giving them my business anymore...

Plus, I got rid of my car recently, so I need a comic store near a Metrolink stop, which Starclipper is.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Fri, May 2, 2008 6:50:58 pm EDT from 70.237.249.216

DEMONSKRYE - According to Malory, after Arthur unwittingly sleeps with his half-sister Morgause, Merlin turns up and tells him off for it, saying that because he committed incest, the son whom he begot upon her will grow up to destroy him and his kingdom. This impels Arthur, in turn, to carry out the May Day Decree to prevent that future from happening.

There are a couple of plotholes here. The first is that Merlin, in the course of uttering the prophecy, makes it clear that Mordred's destruction of Camelot is ordained by God as punishment for Arthur's incest, and nothing can prevent it from coming about - so what's the point of trying to drown him in the first place? The second plothole is "Why drown all the babies?" Arthur would have to be uncommonly dense not to realize that Morgause's son Mordred is the child whom Merlin's talking about; customarily in these stories (the notion of a king attempting to get rid of a baby who is prophesied to cause him trouble when he grows up is widespread in myth and legend), when the king knows the identity of the baby in the prophecy (such as Oedipus, Paris, or Perseus), he only tries to get rid of that particular baby, and the general massacres only take place when he doesn't know where to find the baby (as in the case of King Herod). The most common theories are that Morgause hid Mordred away at birth (though Malory doesn't say anything about it), or that Arthur fears that if he just drowns Mordred, it'll start people speculating, and they'll find out that he committed incest and turn against him in horror (though mass infanticide is just as serious an offense as incest, and thereby a poor way of covering up such a crime). I think that Malory was so keen on using the trope that he didn't work hard enough on adapting it to the situation in his story.

(One modern retelling - the webcomic "Arthur King of Time and Space" - did come up with one solution for the plotholes: when Arthur and Merlin are discussing what to do about Mordred's upcoming birth, one of Arthur's knights, a chap named Sir Balin, who has a reputation for causing disasters wherever he goes, happens to overhear them. Merlin comments that Arthur *could* call in all the babies born at the time that Mordred is due to be born and have them placed in a boat - Balin runs off at that point and doesn't hear Merlin point out that Mordred would survive and all the other babies would drown for someone else's fault. Balin rushes up to one of Arthur's clerks and tells him to issue a proclamation sending for all the babies to be born on such-and-such-a-day....)
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Fri, May 2, 2008 6:46:10 pm EDT from 4.244.209.150

Matt> which Fantasy Shop did you go to? Like I said, the one in St. Charles is pretty good about the gargoyles comic (For the longest time when I first started coming there they called me "The Gargoyles Guy") I've been on pretty good terms with them and they haven't failed me before. They usually order 10-15 copies of the latest comic and up till now the only problem with them I ever had was Bad Guys #1 arriving a week late, and they said that was a problem with Diamond not them.

The only other store in St. Charles that sells Gargoyles is Comic relief. I don't like them (They said that I needed five titles before they's start saving me copies. I Read Gargoyles, Gargoyles: Bad Guys, Legend of Isis, and Greg's upcoming Red Tornado thing...that's four) plus CR was really snobby and condescending towards me. The only time I went there was when BG#1 was delayed. (I did go there Wednesday too, but they didn't have #2)

As you said...I don't have many other options. I don't think that my Fantasy Shop is going to screw this up again. We spent an hour in the store trying to figure out what happened. They eventually realized their mistake,(and fessed up to it) that when they were solicited for #2 they forgot to order it. However they did assure me that they did order #3&4 when they were solicited. (And they checked their records to ensure) I forgot to ask about #9,10,11,&12 of the main title, but I don't think there's a problem there either. Nevertheless, if they screw up again, then come Thursday morning you'll find me at Starclippers, they have a more impressive selection, and comes with Matt and Todd's recomendations. :)
Chip - [Dragonhunter723 at yahoo dot com]
Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable. -- C.S. Lewis
posted @ Fri, May 2, 2008 1:31:13 pm EDT from 68.164.3.71

Re: Hudson's Look.

Actually, I was reminded of way way back in the first season of Gargoyles. And I wonder if he kept his promise to himself once he learned how to read.

That's all I'm gonna say on that.
Mara - [angelcarnivore at gmail dot com]
"It's not that I don't love you" he said, "it's that our writer has an unhealthy obsession with will they/won't they story arcs."
posted @ Fri, May 2, 2008 12:03:28 pm EDT from 70.245.206.70

Rebel> I do like that theory very much, but I feel like Hudson must have come to realize that you can't trust everything you red before this, unless his reading was completely restricted to nonfiction. He asks Arthur whether any of the books are true, which indicates to me that he's already encountered the concept that not all books are true. It is possible that Hudson has never been in a situation where the line between fiction and reality was so blurred. But because Greg is encouraging us to keep Hudson's look in mind, there must be something else coming that relates to that look, probably in #9, and I'm just not sure what that later event might be if Hudson is just mulling over the unreliability of the written word.

Todd> I remembered a discussion we had ages ago about the May Day Decree and checked the Ask Greg archives to see what we knew about it in the Gargoyles universe. It seems Greg has never taken a real position on whether or not this event happened in the GU. But given his apparent fascination with the idea of the heroic protagonist king committing a horrible act in an attempt to prevent the destruction of everything he's worked for - combined with the fact that the comic seems to allow for more "adult" material than the show did - if I had to guess, I'd say it did happen. If it ever does get addressed, I think it's going to be fascinating to see how Arthur came to that decision and how he deals with it now. Incidentally, Todd, what does Malory have to say about how Arthur came to believe that his bastard son would bring about the fall of Camelot and was going to be so evil that drowning any number of innocent babies to get rid of him might have seemed like a good idea?

I realize my theories about Hudson's look are largely a little extreme (especially the last one), but I'm just trying to throw out any ideas I have that might make it worth our while to notice Hudson's expression in that panel and wonder what he's thinking.

::joins Mochi under the table to hide from the spoilers. Her hand occasionally emerges from beneath the tablecloth to grab another cookie.::
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Fri, May 2, 2008 9:37:45 am EDT from 209.6.248.33

DEMONSKRYE - Yep, the May Day Decree's in Malory, but I don't think that Greg had that in mind as the reason for the expression on Hudson's face. I like the theory that Hudson's facing the same problem with books as he'd noticed with television at the end of "The Thrill of the Hunt" (and mentioned again at the start of "Deadly Force").

We don't know how accurate Malory is in the Gargoyles Universe, though we do know of at least one difference: in the Gargoyles Universe, King Pelles crowned Arthur, which Malory doesn't mention (in his work, Arthur is apparently crowned by the Archbishop of Canterbury). Malory doesn't say anything about gargoyles in Arthurian Britain, either, though the Arthur of "Gargoyles" must have associated with them during his reign. (The other major differences that we know of are still "canon-in-training", such as Morgan le Fay being a changeling swapped for Nimue, or Percival still alive in the present day and the current guardian of the Holy Grail.)
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Fri, May 2, 2008 8:13:14 am EDT from 4.244.211.82

I guess I'll take Phoenician's place under the cookie table since I have neither #8 or BG #2...

So...many...spoiler... *Munches on a cookie* (>")>o
The One Known As Mochi - [shogi dot keima dot 08 at gmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>*.*)> My stomach...
posted @ Fri, May 2, 2008 3:42:02 am EDT from 72.199.224.230

(Pheon creeps out from under the Cookie Table, surprisingly with a copy of BG#2 in his hands)

So after two essays turned in, I finally had time to grab my copy of Bad Guys #2. As many have already said, it was amazing. As much as I enjoyed the story inside, I think I was just happy to see the acutual cover, and not the BG#1/Yama placeholder that's haunted the GargWiki for months.

***SPOILERS***

So yeah, not much to add, so here's some random things I thought while reading:

Matrix is SO cool . . . I just love how as much as a straight man he is in Bad Guys, he's litteraly, well . . . not, you know?

I too loved the banter about Robyn's accent . . . more confirmation that except for Castaway, the Canmores are sticking to their Scottish roots.

Speaking of Robyn . . . Blaise -- what are the odds that Robyn read "Gargoyles of Celtic Legend" by a Mr. Lennox Macduff?

Loved all the little cameos . . . from Vinnie to Bishansky. Oh, and Brendan and Margot too :)

Fang and Sevarious -- LOVED that scene, I could totally hear Tim Curry in his line "No, it's not . . ."

***END OF SPOILERS***

So . . . Bad Guys #3 and Gargoyles #9 . . . what a great time to be into Gargoyles (my recently converted roommate is TOTALLY spoiled here, guys).
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Thu, May 1, 2008 10:33:47 pm EDT from 157.242.216.21

**More Spoilers****

Hudson: also remember Hudson's remark about the difficulty of telling fact from fiction from T.V and Movies.. possibly Radio too.. the added frustration of things you read not being true makes things a bit more difficult..

onto Bad Guys #2...

has anybody translated the japanese charcters on the cover? seems to point at soemthing..

yeah, that Weisex computer brand must be really popular in the Gargsverse :)

yup,the old robot crashing into something get em every time..

until another Robot slams his arm into you..

Yama at the Riverbank is beautiful...

poor Yama and Sora .. sucks being them.. Indeed..

though I wonder why there wasn't an explaination of his banishment for neew readers..

sure Yama may be a one Gargoyle army ..but one Garg against the world should be ready for anything..

heh,Matrix puddle is so cute..

aww, Dingo and Hunter are so cute..

Shari rocks as always..

I wan't one of Ben's Shirts :D in my size of course.. :)

and so we meet Sevarius again busting Fang out.. they have GOT to get a better security system..
starlioness
posted @ Thu, May 1, 2008 9:53:20 pm EDT from 24.18.247.8

Chip> Honestly, the reason I go to Starclipper is because the Fantasy Shop kept giving me grief. ON several occasions they promised me the comic only to not have it. And when they would get it, they wouldn't hold it for me as requested. Finally, I just got fed up with them and started going to Starclipper, and they've never let me down. I suppose if you are out in St. Charles, that is a more difficult trek, but I think they are a far more trustworthy comic store.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Thu, May 1, 2008 6:56:20 pm EDT from 70.237.249.216

To whom it may concern:

I signed up for the garg-wiki editing thing as "Griffinwyrm7". I figure I can help or whatnot.
Anonymous
Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable. -- C.S. Lewi
posted @ Thu, May 1, 2008 5:45:10 pm EDT from 128.252.35.150

Thanks, Uncle. Glad to hear you like it. :)
Rebel
posted @ Thu, May 1, 2008 5:32:41 pm EDT from 216.45.251.210

Rebel: Wow, I absolutely love your theory. It is the kind of subtle character detail I love about the series. I get the feeling they are building up to a bigger Hudson story.
UncleDeadly
posted @ Thu, May 1, 2008 4:30:12 pm EDT from 128.114.181.147

Much thanks to Matt and Todd, who if nothing else, put my mind at ease. I got my comic, there were still five left. And there was much rejoicing.

This is the first time I've ever been miffed at The Fantasy Shop. They've always been good about the gargoyles comic, putting it in a prominent location (at my request) Saving me two copies (at my request) and ordering quite a few (at my request, knowing that I tell people to go there and buy the comic) so forgetting to order issue #2 of Bad Guys seriously annoys me. But I'll get over it, and I doubt that they'll make that mistake again.

And Now for my belated review, belated because I'm usually the first to review:

**SPOILERS**
Man this was so worth it.

I swear every issue that comes out just gets better and better.

Yama's characterization was fantastic, and the scene with him and Sora was absolutely beautiful. Powerful and emotional.

I've been to two gatherings and I still have yet to see the gargoyles: bad guys Leica Reel. I still hear Bruce Locke as Yama in my head and I hear Jim Cummings as both Dingo AND Matrix. (Yeah I know he's Jeff Bennett but I've not heard it)Nevertheless I expected Matrix to turn into a sphere and protect them...what I hadn't expected was his ability to FLY! I had figured he'd morph into a boat or something.

Fang/Fred Sykes was great. Oddly enough I was watching "According to Jim" the other night (which I always jokingly call "According to Fang") and Jim said that exact line: "I'm outta here, suckers". I heard it crystal clear in my head.

When Robyn first spoke to Yama I figured he was supposed of go chasing after Fang or something, but I was wrong. Instead the RS fights the robots from Seasame Street. (1,2,3,4,5,6, Seven...Seven deadly robots Mwahahaha)

Yama always reminded me of my dad. I kinda see him as my dad if had been born in the Gagoyles Universe as a Garg. My dad (who incidently had a birthday the day this came out)is obsessed with Japanese culture and especially Samurai so this was strangely fitting. Plus my dad collects Japanese weapons and Yama is armed to the teeth. (I count two katana's, a taichi, four ninja stars, two daggers, and Nunchukku)

Matrix is weird, that's all I have to say on that.

Robyn/Hunter is interesting. I get the feeling that she kind of admires gargoyles/tengu now, but she's still quite prejudiced. The stick was unnessesary, the carrot would have worked.

Dingo feels for Yama, and heck I think he genuinely likes the tengu/gargoyle. Speaking of which, I think that Dingo and Robyn are already attracted to each other. I think that that caught her off guard and so she does little things to get under his skin.

And so Sevarius comes to bust Fang out...again. What is this, the third time someone broke into the Labyrinth? Fourth...I forgot about Awakenings. Security in the Labyrinth SUCKS!

Thug: Somebody broke into the Labyrinth again.
Al: Must be Wednesday.

And the cameo's dotted about were the sprinkles on top. Vinnie, Karine's avatar Kanthara (as a human), Brendan, Margo, Shari, Claw, Benny, Greg B, Mara, and I think I'm missing someone but oh well.

Bad Guys RULES
Chip - [Dragonhunter723 at yahoo dot com]
Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable. -- C.S. Lewis
posted @ Thu, May 1, 2008 3:51:27 pm EDT from 128.252.35.151

SPOILERS

Demonskyre > Your theory about Hudson is certainly very interesting, and would make for a very shocking twist. I don't know if it's all that likely, but it's definitely a cool thought. Kinda makes me want to go back and watch "The Price".

My "theory" is much more boring...possibly so boring that Greg W. wouldn't have even mentioned that Hudson's look was important. I think it might simply be Hudson's disappointment at learning to read (and presumably, reading a great deal), only to have the point really driven home that most of what he reads isn't even accurate. I can imagine that'd be frustrating.
Rebel
posted @ Thu, May 1, 2008 1:34:56 pm EDT from 76.165.32.180

BadGuys 2 **SPOILERS**

I'll keep this short since I am at work (though I will try to post longer thoughts later). I reread BG1 and read 2 last night and what really struck me as amazing were the fight scenes. While we've had fight scenes in the main Gargoyles title, I feel like these two issues have made a strong point of showing the fights in lots of details. It gives it a very strong action feel that I surprisingly liked. It felt very... animated!

In BG1 we had not only the fight between Dingo and Tasmanian Tiger (which was much longer than I recalled), but also one with Robyn. Now in BG2 we have the fight between Yama and the Redemption Squad. Both reminded me of the other with the level of detailed choreography involved. I wonder how much was GregW's script, and how much was artist interpretation. I also noticed in the Yama fight the scratchy, angular, free floating feel to the panels. I didn't notice this while I was rereading 1, but I was more refreshing myself than picking at details so it warrants a second look.

Ok, so I didn't keep this brief. Oh well. **END SPOILERS*
UncleDeadly
posted @ Thu, May 1, 2008 1:05:56 pm EDT from 128.114.181.147

SPOILER-ISH

Matt > Good find, I wouldn't have thought to look that up. I assumed she was threatening Yama's clan with physical violence, not exposure. This information adds more depth to that scene (though I still think she ought to have known better than to threaten a gargoyle's clan).

Bishansky > Yeah you're probably right about the Sevarius/Fred situation.

Meg > Thank you for looking up those dates from #7 earlier.

Blaise > Yeah, I caught the Demona reference too. I really liked that line.


Other observations/thoughts:

In the first few pages of the comic when we see all those robots, they all have numbers on their chest. There are at least 7 of them. I'm not sure why they're numbered, but this could become relevant in #3.

Speaking of that scene, I wonder how Yama is going to escape that huge robot? Personally, (and I know it's a HUGE longshot) I kinda hope Fang saves him. He flies off in the opposite direction after his "suckers" comment, but...just MAYBE he changed his mind when he saw one of his teammates about to die. I personally want Fang to actually gain some depth as a character, not just continue to be some witty guy who always worries about himself, and saving Yama would be a good opportunity for him to start "evolving", so to speak...or rather, showing that he's already evolved a little, even if he still puts up his old front. He should definitely always be a bit of a brash, selfish jerk, but maybe one day he could at least be a "good guy" deep down when the situation gets really serious...kinda like Jonah Jameson in the Rhino episode, for example.

Though even if he doesn't save Yama there will undoubtedly still be plenty of opportunities for him to grow as a character. In all likelihood, it will probably be one of his other teammates that saves him. *sigh*
Rebel
posted @ Thu, May 1, 2008 10:42:22 am EDT from 76.165.33.71

::Demon walks into the comment room with a hand covering her eyes. It prevents her from seeing any spoilers, but also prevents her from seeing the furniture.::

I should be ::bump:: -Oof!- able to get to th ::thud:: -Ow!- comic shop on ::crash:: -@#$%!- Friday.

Interesting tidbit from Ask Greg. In response to PurpleGoldfish's comment about Hudson's expression at the end of the "All things are true. Few things are accurate." conversation, Greg has indicated that we should definitely keep it in mind. (This is very convenient, since I was going to ask Greg what that look meant myself, though with the condition that he didn't have to reveal anything if the panel's significance was going to be revealed in a future issue.) In light of this, I got out my copy of issue #8 do review the scene.

It's November 14, 6:32 PM. Hudson, Lex, and Macbeth have been in London for about 11 nights. They met the London Clan and came to Knight's Spur on the previous night. Lex, Amp, Griff, and Coco are back in the city proper having the discussion about the size and makeup of the London Clan.

Arthur and Macbeth have been sent back to Knight's Spur by Lex, Amp, Griff, and Coco to rest for a bit. Hudson asks Arthur about his quest to find Merlin, something he may have learned about before Arthur and Griif left Manhattan. Arthur tells Hudson that he and Griff have indeed been searching for Merlin, but so far have turned up nothing. Arthur is currently researching the King Arthur "legends" trying to figure out where Merlin might be and simultaneously learning how the world remembers Arthur himself. Hudson asks if any of the many books are true, reaching for a copy of "Le Morte D'Arthur." Arthur looks over to his left (this is important) and utters the line of the scene. Macbeth agrees with Arthur's sentiment. And then we have Hudson's look.

What can we tell from Hudson's look? The expression isn't all that easy to read. Is he worried or merely lost in serious thought? He seems to be looking down, which could also just indicate that he's off in his own thoughts. Or he could be looking at the book we saw him reaching for. Whatever he's feeling at the moment, it's clearly far more serious than Macbeth's reaction to Arthur's statement.

Let's go back to Arthur for a moment. While he's talking about truth and accuracy, he's clearly looking over to his left. What's to his left? Well, there's Hudson, about to pick up "Le Morte D'Arthur." Perhaps the look is meant to warn Hudson that that tome is a particularly good example of his point. After all, a book essentially entitled "The Death of Arthur" is bound to have some inaccuracies if Arthur himself is sitting right in front of you. However, Macbeth is sitting on Arthur's left as well. Could Arthur's pointed look be meant not for Hudson, but for him?

So back to Hudson. What could his expression possibly mean then?

Is Hudson merely contemplating the wisdom of Arthur's word and possibly how they apply to gargoyles and how they are perceived? Maybe, but i doubt Greg would be telling us that the panel is significant if that was all it was.

Is Hudson wondering what is true and accurate about King Arthur? Griff got pretty reliable confirmation from the Stone of Destiny that Arthur really is the legendary king, but Hudson didn't. Even if Hudson doesn't doubt Arthur's identity, maybe he's starting to wonder how much they actually know about this person and whether they can trust him. ::Small creativity demon rushes in.:: Maybe Hudson actually has read up on King Arthur, is aware of the May Day Decree (Do I have that right, Todd?), and is wondering how much he can trust someone who may have ordered the killing of helpless babies.

Is Hudson picking up on Arthur's possible suspicion and wondering what is true and accurate about Macbeth? Keep in mind that most of our protagonists do not know all of the background we got on Macbeth in 'City of Stone." If Hudson is at all aware of the plot of the Shakespeare play (which is possible, since the clan probably got around to learning about it after encountering Macbeth a few times), he would have reason to wonder what kind of person Macbeth is.

Is Hudson thinking about something he himself knows to be less than accurate? Is there something that he's been keeping from his family and allies? ::The following is a outrageous, insane creativity demon. It is probably also drunk, wearing a lampshade on its head, and dancing on the tables.:: What if Hudson is secretly helping Xanatos? What if Xanatos or one of his subordinates approached Hudson and made him doubt the trustworthiness of Macbeth or Arthur or both of them? Or what if Hudson simply made a devil's bargain with Xanatos? Something where he helps to keep his allies distracted from Xanatos's real objective in exchange for Xanatos continuing to ensure the Manhattan clan's safety. Hudson may not know the full extent of Xanatos's scheme or he may be working from the false assumption that one or both of these humans are bad news. I kind of doubt this is the case, but it certainly would make for a shocker.

Any other thoughts?

::Demon stubles her way blindly out of the room to await responses.::

Owch!
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Thu, May 1, 2008 10:32:12 am EDT from 209.6.248.33

I really don't see any point in discussing the sales numbers AGAIN. Stop worrying about that. Just focus on the book itself and promoting it as much as possible and the numbers will take care of themselves.
And surely, a day after a new release, we can find SOMETHING better to talk about...
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Thu, May 1, 2008 10:08:59 am EDT from 70.237.249.216

I noticed and semi forgot that the price went up on the spin-off books as well. Will the spin-off book stay at $3.50 while the main book stays at $3.95 or will we see a price increase again soon? I'd be willing to pay anything for these books, but hopefully it's the delay and not the price increase that is affecting the sale numbers.
The Gargoyles Pulse
~ Anthony Tini
posted @ Thu, May 1, 2008 9:49:30 am EDT from 159.240.11.254

Hi all! First of the month so you get to deal with my post again. MGC has moved Prehistoric Gargoyles into voting, so head on over and check out the entries! New topic is Gargoyles in Shakespeare, which could be fun - artists can either play up the references from the show, or do something of their own. ^_^

Enjoy!
kess - [< UPDATED for May!]
posted @ Thu, May 1, 2008 9:24:58 am EDT from 66.227.169.218

**** SPOILER-ish ******

I think Hunter's stick with Yama is more than just a threat to attack the Ishimura Clan, I think her real threat is to reveal them to the world: http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=5392
Which would be interesting since that is just what Yama tried to do and got banished for...
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Thu, May 1, 2008 8:11:14 am EDT from 70.237.249.216

* BAD GUYS SPOILERS *

BLAISE - I caught the Demona reference too.

I don't think that the Canmore trio have killed any gargoyles. The impression that I got from "Hunter's Moon" was that they (and their forebears) believed that Demona was the only gargoyle left in the world since the slaughter of her clan in 1057; note how astonished they are to find an entire gargoyle clan in Manhattan as well as Demona.

Incidentally, I have a vision of somebody in the Labyrinth - anybody - making a "Here we go again" comment on Sevarius breaking Fang out; this is the third time that somebody in the Rogues Gallery has entered the Labyrinth to get somebody (the first two times were Thailog breaking Demona and Fang out in "The Reckoning" and Thailog coming for the Clones in #3 and #4).

* SPOILERS END *
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Thu, May 1, 2008 6:57:21 am EDT from 4.244.213.36

BAD GUYS #2.

Warning for anyone who's not Greg W., is not involved with making the comic, and/or hasn't read it yet. HERE LURK SPOILERS.

***

Cool comic, IMO. Feeling too lazy to write out a full length review, so I'll just comment on everything I liked about it and hope it counts.

Nice opening segment. Definite parallels to the BG leica reel. At least, for those who've seen it.

Yama. There's a reason he's one of my favorite minor characters in Gargoyles, and that is because how serious he is. He's focused, driven on honor. Obsessed with honor, in fact. Good characterization on Yama's part, and I always felt he could carry a story. Which he definitely does here. Kudos.

And DAMN, the guy really loves his weapons!

Nice little bits with Dingo as well. Is that a Nightstone mug he's drinking? And his reaction to returning to Manhattan. LMAO. Priceless.

Matrix can turn his own arm into a gun. How badass. Is there ANYTHING the guy can't do?!

And, on that note, for some reason, I think Yama looks wicked, practically ramming his blade in Robin's throat like that. What did she say to tick him off that bad? Talked smack about his clan, apparently.

Nice little cameos towards the end. Nice seeing Margot (though she does annoy me) and Brendan in there. Shari too.

And speaking of cameos. Didn't see Sevarius showing up until it actually happened. Nice. And to get Fang's real name (No, I won't reveal it here) also. Nice plot twist.

Good story. I'm definitely (of course) looking forward to #3.

End my (lazily mild) attempt at a review.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Thu, May 1, 2008 3:06:02 am EDT from 99.174.161.38

Sorry for the double post, here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlLeCu63HCA
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Thu, May 1, 2008 2:19:21 am EDT from 71.115.218.75

Since I brought the series Saturday, I thought I'd add a link to the new segment of Hi, I'm A Marvel and I'm A DC. Basically shows the similarities and differences between Batman and Iron Man as well as why the upcoming Batman film wouldn't be considered family friendly.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Thu, May 1, 2008 2:18:15 am EDT from 71.115.218.75

****A little coin purse appears in mid-air. It opens itself and Blaise climbs out. He grabs the purse, closes it, and places it in his pocket.**** Well, it's been a rough week, and some important bills will have to wait for Friday (payday), but I managed to save enough to get my Gargoyles fix, so it's still a good day.

SPOILERS!!! SPOILERS!!!!

BAD GUYS #2: THE LOST> I somehow knew the format would begin by advancing the "leica reel scenario" before going back to the main story. It's nice, and ends on quite a cliff-hanger for Yama (while also showcasing what a jerk Fang is--"I'm outta here, suckers!")
But on to the main story:
-Well, it seems Vinnie's in Japan, which puts this AFTER Vinnie's cameo in "Gargoyles" #8. Most likely, sometime in November then (placing the "leica reel sequence" sometime in January, at least). I LOVE the designs of some of the Japanese pedestrians.
-Anyway, we then flash even further back to Yama's banishment. I love the interplay between Kai, Sora and Yama. It intrigues me how Sora was the one who suggested Yama be his own judge--and how Kai objected because the choice was "too harsh." Not that they have to outright say it; Yama figures out that he's his own judge just by Sora and Kai's statements.
Kai then leaves the two alone. I just have to say, I love how stoic Kai acts throughout this sequence.
You can see the pain on both Yama and Sora's faces as they part. "Ask me to go with you"...damn. I can't help but find myself wondering how much their age difference plays a factor in their relationship.
-Back in the "present" flashback, Yama unfurls his wings...and reveals a frickin' armory! How many blades does that guy need?
-The Matrix in Surround Sound! Man, that AI is dang useful.
-I like how Dingo isn't thrilled with hunting a gargoyle. Nevertheless, he nets Yama, who counters with swords and then cuts right through the Matrix-hammock and hits the ground. Of course, Hunter pulls off some pretty impressive acrobatics of her own.
-And Yama is surrounded and gets "the pitch." I'm glad Yama got to surprise Hunter by speaking English ("Better than you speak Japanese.") Yama and Dingo ragging on her accent was fun, too.
-Matrix just had to get that "We serve Law and Order" in there, didn't it?
-Robyn reveals some of her growth. Particularly in the way she describes having "wasted (her) life hunting gargoyles" and that her "studies of the species were tainted by old prejudices." She seems to have learned enough to know about banishment, however (and I wonder where exactly she learned about that).
Did anybody else notice her Demona reference?
-It's strange, but Hunter's face (even in the mask) seems a lot...well, "softer" I guess, then I've ever seen it. I mean, is it just me, or is she a heck of a lot nicer with Yama than she was with Dingo? She even pats him on the shoulder--much more chummy than I would have expected either of them to be.
-Yama's actually favorable to the idea of joining the group and doing good, already (which, as Dingo thinks, is the "Carrot"). But then, Hunter trots out "the Stick." "Fifteen seconds later..." Hunter's on the ground with a sword pointed at her throat (in addition to Yama's hand around it) and Yama's got THREE guns pointed at him (Dingo's, Hunter's, and Matrix's new gun made out of his arm). I laughed out loud at that.
-Yama's angry expression fades to one of consternation over being coerced into this. Despite the gun, Dingo actually comisserates with Yama a bit. Even more surprising, Hunter proves (once again) a bit more receptive to Yama and his dilemma than she was towards Dingo. She even seems to know enough about Bushido to offer a solution--but Yama doesn't let the "gargoyle-hunter" off the hook so easily (Matrix, like the naive AI it is, fails to see the problem).
-Who wants to bet that the coffee cup Dingo's drinking from is one of "Nightstone's"?
I like Dingo's spit-take, and referring to Hunter's "evil little mind" as well as his "put-upon" expression in the next panel.
-I thought I recognized a couple of the "extras"--go Greg B. and Mara!
And somehow, I knew who "Fred" really was in the first panel--something about the nose and eyes. What interests me is how familiar the residents of the Labyrinth act towards him. He clearly must have been doing this for a while and building up trust.
Shari seems to know who he really is (but does he know that she knows? And if so, does she know that he knows that she knows? And if so...I'll just stop now).
-Poor Thug.
-And then the Big Reveal. Not just Sevarius himself, but Fang's real name: Fred Sykes. My first thought was also about Bill Sikes from "Oliver Twist" (in fact, Tim Curry played him in one made-for-TV version a while back). My second thought was that Sevarius's homeless persona had the same first name as Fang. My third thought was, "Boy, Sevarius really is a ham."
And that is one shocked look on Fang's face at the end.
-Oh, and before I forget...I'M IN THE LETTERS SECTION. Wow, man, I never expected that in a million years. That is so frickin' COOL! (ahem) It was rather gratifying.

END SPOILERS!!!! END SPOILERS!!!

Well, I'm off to sleep for work tomorrow (not acting work, unfortunately, but a week-long assignment that will help cover the bills). Until next time, farewell. ****Blaise snaps his fingers and creates a vortex in the air. It sucks him in and disappears.****
Blaise
"Build a man a fire, keep him warm for a day. Set a man on fire, keep him warm for the rest of his life."--Terry Pratchett's "Jingo"
posted @ Thu, May 1, 2008 12:31:04 am EDT from 4.232.192.178

*** SPOILERS ***

Rebel> It seems obvious to me that no one in the Labyrinth knew Fang's real name. None of the Mutates, no one. Sevarius may have been using it to be ironic. Plus, I am sure he's been doing reconnaissance there for a little while to prepare to strike. Like any good strategist would.

*** END SPOILERS ***
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"In 1977, George Lucas' "Star Wars" was released, and the intellectual and art side of filmmaking and filmgoing has been scattered to the four winds ever since."
posted @ Thu, May 1, 2008 12:26:10 am EDT from 75.56.245.4

Sorry for the double...I meant to add this.

SPOILER ALERT

Just to put things in perspective.

Presumably, Fang's breakout occurs on November 7th or 8th. Vinnie leaves for Japan on November 4th, and then while he is in Tokyo, says something about barely being there for three days, meaning it'd be around the 7th or 8th (depending on what day it was when he got to Japan).

When Robin says "Let's just say we have a doctor's appointment" and then the comic cuts to the scene on the street in Manhattan, it does so in a very "meanwhile" fashion, so I'm assuming this is happening at the same time as the stuff in Japan.
Rebel
posted @ Wed, Apr 30, 2008 11:56:41 pm EDT from 216.45.251.210

My thoughts on Bad Guys #2

~*~SPOILERISH~*~

I loved the art. THE ART THE ART THE ART. Charlebois' work really knocks my socks off, more than anyone else's art has so far. The cityscapes of Japan are amazing. The characters' facial expressions all convey their emotions PERFECTLY (My faves: When "Yama says "And ask you to share my shame?", when Dingo says "Her brogue grinds on you", the way Yama looks after Hunter says "Which is exactly what we offer", Yama's "COERCION" face, as well as his "To a gargoyle hunter?!" face, Dingo's look when he spits out his coffee, his "Fine, you don't like me..." face, as well as Shari's little smirk in the Labyrinth and the look on Fang's face in the very last panel). Her work also conveys a perfect sense of movement. I.e. the panel where Yama unfurls his wings over Tokyo, the panel when Kai and Sora are coming in for a landing, that panel when Robin leaps down into the alley to land near Yama, the panel right before the net envelopes Yama (well, ALL of the panels involving the net are really good actually). It's occurred to me that if I mention every panel I like or every panel that particularly shows off how great Charlebois' art is, then I'll be mentioning almost all of the panels in the book, so I'll quit now. My ONLY criticism is that, to me, Fang's face doesn't look quite right in some of the panels...his cheekbones are a little too human, and his face sometimes looks quite narrow, making him look less feline. Other than that, this art is WONDERFUL and I can't wait until #4 (though I'm looking forward to seeing the new artist's work in #3 as well).

I love the fact that Yama is the most harsh and unforgiving judge of his own character. That's such a great insight into his character.

Dingo and Hunter are so awesome. I love the fact that their relationship is so volatile, and that they take every opportunity to dig at each other. It's going to be fun to see the two of them eventually fall for each other.

I love Matrix in this issue, too. He can do so many awesome things. The protective ball around his teammates, the way he made lots of little puddles of himself, forming a gun out of his arm, etc. Awesome. And, even though he didn't have many lines, I loved the ones he had. "Perhaps this would be a good time to go on the offensive"--sweet, Matrix told a joke! At least I think it's a joke. "We serve law and order"--so broad and sweeping, as well as somewhat oddly timed on Matrix's part...strange thing to say after you've just attacked someone...clearly, he's still got a lot to learn about interacting with people. "Is that a problem?"--I'm not sure what sort of inflection he said this with. I wonder if he said it in a genuinely questioning way, or in a way that was somewhat threatening? I'm betting it was in a questioning way, which would also suggest that he's still got a LOT to learn about the emotions of sentient organic lifeforms.

I don't really know how I feel about the panels where Yama and Sora are talking to each other. Yama's "There can be no us, Sora, until honor is restored" comment seems kind of strange. He is clearly very much devoted to his clan, and to honor and Bushido, yet he acts somewhat strangely towards his mate, under the circumstances; he even draws his arm away from her touch. This is their only opportunity to say their farewells before he leaves for who-knows-how-long, yet he doesn't take the opportunity a proper goodbye to his mate. His face when he turns away from her and says "And ask you to share my shame?" shows that he is clearly very torn up about leaving-perhaps it was too difficult for him to say a normal loving goodbye, and so this is why his responses to her are somewhat stiff. Maybe he knew that he might break down in tears if he shared how he really felt, so he put up a tough front. Sora's "Ask me to go with you" comment seems odd as well--she's perfectly willing to leave the clan to be with her banished mate, despite her responsibilities as second-in-command. I like that they both deal with the situation very differently. This certainly does serve as great characterization for them both. Yama values honor and clan above all else, and refuses to have his mate see him in a moment of weakness, while love is Sora's top priority. Another cool thing about this panel is how the whole background disappears when they start to talk, and it's just them. That was a nice touch.

"Better than you speak Japanese. Your accent is atrocious." Oh come on. Is this REALLY the kind of thing anybody would say after they'd just been attacked multiple times in quick succession and are currently surrounded? This is hardly a time for witty banter. Well, I guess it's supposed to indicate that Yama is very accustomed to combat situations so he doesn't have a problem keeping a cool head. Still, that just seems like a really dumb thing to say at a time like that. At least it gives Dingo an opportunity to make that comment about Hunter's "brogue".

"And if that's not reason enough..." Wow, what a dumb thing to do. It is painfully obvious in the few panels preceding this that Yama was already warming up to the idea of joining the team, and Robin should have been able to perceive this. The look on his face when he's peering through his swords, the fact that he puts his swords away and asks if they are ronin, the very fact that he lets Hunter approach him at all and then put her hand on his shoulder, etc. He was CLEARLY at least considering it; why would she bust out with threats so soon? Any leader knows that it's better to have your subordinates with you by CHOICE, not because they feel they have to be, so why would she use threats before she even knows if he's going to choose to go with them or not? Aside from Yama's "accent" comment, I really liked this scene, up to this point. But this just seems completely illogical. If Robin knows anything about gargoyles (and apparently she does know at least a little) she should know that threatening a gargoyle's clan is a HUGE no-no. The very fact that she threatens them is ridiculous, given her earlier comments about how she "wasted my life hunting gargoyles" and being "tainted by old prejudices" as well as "We aim to do good on a large scale". And then she proceeds to threaten a clan she doesn't even KNOW, to try and coerce a guy who was clearly ALREADY at least considering the possibility of joining the team? Jeez, why coerce when you can gain genuine loyalty (which she may well have gotten if she hadn't resorted to threats)? I suppose maybe this scene is supposed to indicate that Hunter is still very NEWLY reformed...she still doesn't really understand gargoyles or how to deal with them, and old habits die hard. Still...I would think she would have known better than to do this.

I don't quite get this "Fred" thing...Sevarius disguises himself as a man named "Fred". Is this supposed to be Fang's former self (Fred Sykes), or some other random guy who coincidentally is ALSO named "Fred"? I'm assuming it's the former, because if not, then why use the same first name? If he's disguised himself as Fred Sykes, then the other characters' reactions to him seem odd. Surely they would know that Fred Sykes became a mutate...and even if they didn't know that, they'd know that Fred Sykes has been missing for MONTHS (unless Sevarius has been occasionally impersonating him and going down there for quite some time now)...and the only reaction that indicates he's been gone is "Long time no see" which seems a little inadequate if they think he's really been gone all that time. Then again, Claw waves to him in a way that indicates he recognizes him. If Sevarius is impersonating Fred Sykes, then presumably Claw would know that Fred became Fang. Then again, maybe Fang was the very first mutate, and then after becoming a mutate he never revealed his name to anyone. Maybe Sevarius has been occasionally pretending to be Fred Sykes for a while now. In other words, the mutates and the other people in the labyrinth don't know that the real Fred Sykes became a mutate long ago, and the guy they have been thinking is Fred Sykes for months has been Sevarius all along. I guess this is what happened. Though I don't get the necessity of Sevarius pretending to be Fred Sykes. He could have pretended to be any old bum, and went down to the labyrinth a few times and made friends with people and have had no need to make people believe he was Fred.

Also, in that panel with Benny, Tasha, and Claw, I did a bit of a double-take. The tail of the bubble for Benny's "Hi, Fred" comment sorta looked like it was pointing to Claw when I first looked at it, and I was like "WHOA CLAW TALKED". But then I saw that it was really Benny, and chuckled at myself.

I liked Shari's cameo here. I don't know if she's involved in this thing with Sevarius, but it's certainly a possibility. Her little smirk seems to indicate that she recognizes him, and he almost certainly recognizes her. If she's involved, I assume Thailog is involved as well. I certainly hope so.

I loved Sevarius' "It's time to meet your maker" line. I also love how he's clearly already manipulating Fang...that "You believe your true name is lost. But there are still some who remember" line seems quite calculated to push Fang's buttons (and just MAYBE, pull at his heartstrings...which are probably a little withered at this point). Regardless of what kind of life he had before becoming a mutate, there are surely aspects of it that he misses--friends, family, hobbies, etc., things he can't do now. And, since he's cooped up in a cage, he's obviously had plenty of time to...reminisce about his former life. Nice work, Sevarius.

Another thing I like is how every character has their own font for their inner monologue. That's a really nice touch.

Anyway, overall, what a great issue.
Rebel
posted @ Wed, Apr 30, 2008 11:52:51 pm EDT from 216.45.251.210

*** SPOILERS ***

MATT> I imagine that Sevarius has been doing recon down there for a while now. Get a layout and a feel for the place before he makes his move.

So, anyone think Shari is involved in what Sevarius is up to? We've known for a while the Illuminati would be antagonists in "Bad Guys".

*** End Spoilers ***
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"In 1977, George Lucas' "Star Wars" was released, and the intellectual and art side of filmmaking and filmgoing has been scattered to the four winds ever since."
posted @ Wed, Apr 30, 2008 11:28:21 pm EDT from 75.56.245.4

Shara> A good place to start with images would be the Requested Images list on the Community Portal. Any quality images would be useful though. Thanks!

***** SPOILERS *****

Any else notice Benny's t-shirt. A gargoyle on it and "I believe", lol!

OKay, so why is Sevarius disguised as "Fred", I mean, I know why he is disguised, but why use the name Fred? To be ironic? And people there know him, so has he been going down to the Labyrinth for a while or what?

*** END SPOILERS ****
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Wed, Apr 30, 2008 11:18:49 pm EDT from 70.237.249.216

Thanks bunches Greg B. I'll get to uploading thoughs images to the wiki. I got some really nice character images from the DVDS.

Patrick hehe neat. Since I live out here who would I contact to help with the staff on the planing for next year? I'm really good at getting spots at conventions out here in LA and advertizing.
Shara
posted @ Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:59:18 pm EDT from 76.170.156.182

To quell the rumors that are now flying...

The Gathering of the Gargoyles is pleased to announce that in the Summer of 2009, The Gathering will be returning to Los Angeles, California. We're hoping to have many special guests and we'll be looking to top the attendance seen at the previous Los Angeles conventions in 2001 and 2006. Planning for 2009 is still in the very early stages, so details will be posted when they become available.

But first... we want to see the fans turn out in Chicago! Even as you think ahead to 2009, it's still not to late to make plans to be there and support The Gathering 2008. :)
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:37:25 pm EDT from 76.205.118.123

Looks like Greg spilled the beans a little early ;)
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"In 1977, George Lucas' "Star Wars" was released, and the intellectual and art side of filmmaking and filmgoing has been scattered to the four winds ever since."
posted @ Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:33:35 pm EDT from 75.56.245.4

Phoenician - <Seriously? Is next year's Gathering in Los Angeles again? When did this happen? I would have thought Patrick would have announced it first!> Dittos. I inquired a while back about next year's gathering location only to hear Patrick say there will be a gathering without announcing a location. Is there some reason why there's no announcement yet?
dph_of_rules
Whatever happened to simplicity?
posted @ Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:56:37 pm EDT from 98.20.240.192

Chip> Yeah, I just got back from there and they still had around 5-10 issues remaining. Not sure how many they ordered, but I imagine there will still be a copy left for you there tomorrow.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:37:04 pm EDT from 70.237.249.216

(Creeps out of Cookie Table . . . notices the latest posts on Ask Greg. Jaw Drops) --

In the words of Fang: "What HAPPENED here?!"

Seriously? Is next year's Gathering in Los Angeles again? When did this happen? I would have thought Patrick would have announced it first!

Well, I know what I'm doing next summer . . . :D

(Jaw still dropped, Pheon shoves cookie in mouth, and goes back under Cookie Table shouting "LA LA LA!!")
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:36:53 pm EDT from 157.242.219.240

Big Brain Comics in Minneapolis has 4 copies of BG #2 on the shelf, not including the one in my pull list. I guess that's a healthy amount compared to some on here.
Lumpmoose - [lumpmoose at googles dot email dot service]
posted @ Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:35:22 pm EDT from 216.250.163.157

Just got back from Starclipper and wrote up my review.

*****SPOILERS*******

My Review For Bad Guys #2, "The Lost"...

Well, let me just say. It was worth the wait. And I don't just mean the wait since "Strangers" I mean the wait since I found out at Ask Greg about Yama and Sora and the Redemption Squad. For some reason, I've always thought that the Yama/Sora relationship would be fascinating to watch, and "The Lost" didn't let me down on that note. Ugh, it tugs at my heart to watch them in this issue. They both know what must be done, and yet they are both so conflicted. Without saying the word, I see love between them. I love that Sora is willing to be banished with Yama, and I love that Yama won't let her. Who knows how long they will be apart, but I love thinking that down the road they will always be on the others mind and in the others heart.

"The Lost" is really exciting. As always there is so much going on it is hard not to just point out how I loved every little detail in my review, but I'll attempt to focus on the basics. The action is outstanding. Karine really has a knack for drawing action and Greg has a knack for writing it. It is amazing to me that the comics seem to be as dynamic and fast-paced as any TV episode of the series, if not more so in some cases. Hunter's acrobatics are exciting to watch, Matrix is, as always, very fun in his various forms and fluidity, Dingo's everyman attitude is great and Yama is just so darn cool with his nobility and warrior spirit. This is really shaping up to be a very fun bunch as a main cast.

Lots of cool little bits in this one, as well. The inner monologue stuff was very interesting, I especially enjoyed Dingo's thoughts on fighting gargoyles. The tension between Hunter and Yama is neat too. A former gargoyle hunter and a gargoyle as teammates. Makes me wonder if Hunter has ever actually killed another gargoyle. Matrix is all over the place with this one. His abilities are outright astounding. He can separate himself into numerous, fully functional entities, he can form his arm into a gun, he can float/fly/hover... With all that it is hilarious when Hunter remarks to Dingo that, "I recruited you to get to Matrix." No kidding, he/she/it may seem naive and simple at times, but he is very powerful.

Finally, the New York sequence. Fun to see a cameo by Margot, Brendan, Al, Claw and Shari (not to mention Greg B and others, guess it pays to have friends in high places), but the really fun stuff here is Sevarius. His infiltration of the Labyrinth leads to all sorts of questions. Questions I'm sure won't be answered for a few months at least. But we do get one answer to an old question, Fang's human name. Fred Sykes. And what is Sevarius's interest in Mr. Sykes? I guess thats a story for another day.

So, all in all, a fantastic issue. No errors or problems of any sort that I can see and the story and art and cover are all fantastic. Great job to everyone, I look forward to "Estranged" with great antici........

***** END SPOILERS********
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:28:10 pm EDT from 70.237.249.216

Thanks Todd, Hopefully there will still be some left tomorrow. I am so peeved at the Fantasy Shop. In fact I've been cranky all day. *Starclipper* I knew that.
Chip - [Dragonhunter723 at yahoo dot com]
Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable. -- C.S. Lewis
posted @ Wed, Apr 30, 2008 7:51:43 pm EDT from 68.164.2.151

Had my copy picked up for me today. "Wow" just isn't an adequate response response to this issue. Talk about dropping off tons of info. Review to come upon catching up on much needed *yawns* sleep.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happened to simplicity?
posted @ Wed, Apr 30, 2008 7:19:51 pm EDT from 98.20.240.192

Greg> How were you made fun of in Spider Man? I haven't seen it before.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Wed, Apr 30, 2008 7:09:47 pm EDT from 75.152.159.222

CHIP - There were plenty of "Bad Guys"#2 about when I visited Starclipper this morning (just after it opened at 11 a.m.); I don't know how quickly they sold.

* SPOILERS *

Some of the things that stood out most to me.

The scene where Yama's banished from Ishimura. Great drama, especially the remark that Yama's judge "is rigid and unforgiving" - himself.

Matrix's multiple heads all reporting to Dingo about Yama's movements. Just when you thought he couldn't get any stranger....

Dingo's remark about Robyn's brogue (all the funnier in light of his own Australian accent).

Yama's response to Robyn's offer - still stiffly dignified, as ever.

Dingo's introductions: "I'm Dingo. She's Hunter. The puddle's Matrix."

Dingo's alarm that they're returning to New York, where he's a wanted felon, and Robyn's response.

The cameos from Vinnie (still as hapless as ever), Brendan and Margot, Al, Claw, and Shari. (I hadn't known about Bishansky and Mara's cameos, though; thanks for tellins us about that, Bishansky. Incidentally, what *is* that connection between you and Norman Osborn's chauffeur that you've mentioned a couple of times?)

Sevarius unmasking himself - and revealing Fang's real name. (As soon as I saw it, I thought of Bill Sikes in "Oliver Twist", but I don't know if Greg actually had a Dickens reference intended. The two surnames are spelled differently.) And how like Sevarius to say, when greeting a Mutate, "It's time to meet your maker!"

Looking forward to #3 - which should be all the more fun, with Jason and Jon showing up.

* SPOILERS END *
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Wed, Apr 30, 2008 6:19:39 pm EDT from 4.244.211.69

I picked up my copy of BG#2. I nearly had to arm wrestle someone for it at the cash register until the clerk told him there should still be one copy left on the shelf (which there was).

58 days left until The Gathering 2008 in Chicago, Illinois!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Wed, Apr 30, 2008 6:04:44 pm EDT from 76.205.118.123

I'll be out of the CR until I can get BG #2 (next Thursday at the earliest). Can't wait.

Just wanted to say though, to Ricky: I've put a link to your blog at gargoylescomic.com. Hope you don't mind this. I must have not been following the room when you launched the blog but it's really terrific! Keep up the great work on it.
Ed
posted @ Wed, Apr 30, 2008 3:35:49 pm EDT from 213.187.39.61

****SPOILERS****

Greg B wrote> "Shari... I see she's still hanging out in the Labyrinth. Is she doing double agent work for Thailog? Looks like it."

Actually I assumed that, since this is a flashback, it is taking place in late October, during the events of "Invitation Only". But maybe she goes back to the Labyrinth to hang out during the day. I think I'll "Ask Greg" about the timeline here.
Phil - [p1anderson at go dot com]
posted @ Wed, Apr 30, 2008 3:32:15 pm EDT from 134.215.196.82

Not listening either! LALALALALALALALALALAL!
Chip - [Dragonhunter723 at yahoo dot com]
Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable. -- C.S. Lewis
posted @ Wed, Apr 30, 2008 3:28:49 pm EDT from 68.164.2.151

I wonder when I'll be able to get to the comic store? Until then...

LA LA LA LA!! I"M NOT LISTENING!! LA LA LA LA!!
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Wed, Apr 30, 2008 3:25:57 pm EDT from 209.6.248.33

*** Big Bad Spoilers ***

So, I picked up #2 of "Bad Guys" today. I enjoyed it more than the first issue. Now we finally seem to be getting somewhere and the team has more or less coalesced. Well, still one more, but we're getting there.

Most of the issue takes place in Tokyo, where we open with Yama reflecting on his banishment from the clan. He can only return when his honor has been regained, and he himself is his own judge. A very harsh and unforgiving judge. This universe has never had a lack of characters full of self loathing. Nice to finally see Sora get some characterization after, what, twelve years now?

Loved the action sequence where Hunter and Dingo take down Yama. Hunter is quite the wily one, isn't she? I'm really enjoying her character. Yama and Dingo making fun of her accent was also quite amusing. But more than that, she threatens his clan if Yama does not join, and being the samurai that he is feels that his lost honor cannot be regained under coercion. Damn, this must suck for him.

Must not forget Vinnie's cameo. I hope he doesn't get mugged. Poor guy, doesn't speak the language.

I did enjoy Dingo's reaction to being told they're heading to New York. He's still a wanted, escaped felon there, and Hunter pretty much tells him to get over it. She is such a bitch, I love her.

Next we get to cameos, cameos, cameos. Let's see, who have I spotted.

Brendan and Margot
Shari... I see she's still hanging out in the Labyrinth. Is she doing double agent work for Thailog? Looks like it.
Greg Weisman's son, Benny.
Long time fans, Mara Cordova and I.... yup, that's right. Between Harry Osborn making fun of me in "The Spectacular Spider-Man" and now walking down street past a Mystery Homeless Guy, I am making the rounds in Weisman's material. ;)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/gregx/Gathering%202007/MeandMara.jpg
Mara and I strolling down a street in Manhattan.

Thanks, Karine!


Okay, back to the story. Mysterious homeless drifter named Fred climbs into the sewers and makes his way to the Labyrinth. He is greeted by Claw, a couple of homeless people. A sinister looking Shari smiles knowingly at him, and "Fred" walks up to Fang's cell and removes his fake beard, hat and coat revealing the good doctor we all love to hate, Dr. Anton Sevarius, here to release Fang for whatever scheme he has in the works. We also learn Fang's real name.

Cool issue. Had less of a "meet the characters" feel, and more of a story. I eagerly anticipate #3.

*** END SPOILERS ***
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"In 1977, George Lucas' "Star Wars" was released, and the intellectual and art side of filmmaking and filmgoing has been scattered to the four winds ever since."
posted @ Wed, Apr 30, 2008 3:19:48 pm EDT from 75.56.245.4

Sorry for the double post. Matt or Todd (or anyone else who lives in St. Louis) I assume that you get your copies from the store on Delmar (I don't remember what it's called but I've seen it) How many copies does that store order? If they don't order very many would it be possible for either of you to buy a copy for me and hold onto it? I can pay you back tomorrow when I head to St. Louis and you could give it to me then...only if you feel like it/want to, and only you can afford it and only if it's necessary (ie. the store doesn't order very many copies) I would be eternally greatful.
Chip - [Dragonhunter723 at yahoo dot com]
Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable. -- C.S. Lewis
posted @ Wed, Apr 30, 2008 3:02:51 pm EDT from 68.164.2.151

Okay..I found out my problem after talking it out with the manager. Turns out that they ordered issues 1,3,&4. but not 2. They said that it was their error, and they could re-order and get the Issue in 2 weeks. ARG! I'm not waiting two weeks. Tomorrow I'm going to St. Louis and trying the comic shop on Delmar. I hope that it isn't sold out by then.
Chip - [Dragonhunter723 at yahoo dot com]
Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable. -- C.S. Lewis
posted @ Wed, Apr 30, 2008 2:56:58 pm EDT from 68.164.2.151

It isn't spoilerific in here yet, I'm surprised. Unfortunately, due to a final paper, I won't be able to pick up my copy of BG#2 until tomorrow most likely :(

(Pheon hides under Cookie Table, shouting "LA LA LA!" to avoid overhearing spoilers)
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Wed, Apr 30, 2008 2:49:35 pm EDT from 157.242.206.38

Bah, my local comic store had already sold the one copy they had ordered ( >:\ ) so I just ordered from midtown as well.
Meg
posted @ Wed, Apr 30, 2008 2:33:04 pm EDT from 138.16.28.211

Just ordered my 3 copies of BG#2 from Midtown comics. Hope it doesn't take a month to get em like my last package from them did.

Gargs #9 can't get released soon enough. Woo!
Wingless
posted @ Wed, Apr 30, 2008 2:10:33 pm EDT from 99.245.254.123

So it was just me?
Chip - [Dragonhunter723 at yahoo dot com]
Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable. -- C.S. Lewis
posted @ Wed, Apr 30, 2008 1:26:31 pm EDT from 68.164.2.151

Chip> I got mine with no problem. I'll post comments later.
Phil - [p1anderson at go dot com]
posted @ Wed, Apr 30, 2008 1:24:24 pm EDT from 134.215.196.82

Okay...for some reason neither my usual comic supplier nor my backup got Bad Guy #2 is this an isolated event or are other people unable to get the comic?
Chip - [Dragonhunter723 at yahoo dot com]
Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable. -- C.S. Lewis
posted @ Wed, Apr 30, 2008 12:50:26 pm EDT from 68.164.2.151

Tini> I think the idea of Lexington staying with the London clan is actually really interesting. I think it would be a big shock if that actually happened, I would be totally taken by surprise. I don't know if Greg's ever commented on this, but I feel like it's really unlikely that he would ever split up the Manhattan Clan. Maybe if it wasn't a permanent arrangement, like a couple of months, I think that would be great. As for Coco and Amp, I'm not sure whether they'll come to Manhattan, but I would love it if they did, I've already grown to love them in just two issues, but I think that the "Clan-building" theme might have less to do with Coco and Amp and more to do with Coldstone and Coldfire. If they defeat (or I guess..shutdown?) Coldsteel..at least temporarily even, that means they might finally rejoin the clan. Either way, I love the idea of new additions to the Manhattan clan, as well as the new interactions and storylines it'll bring about.

Plus, Coldstone and Coldfire can protect the others while they sleep, which might mean some daytime aerial fight scenes...verry cooool.
Ricky
posted @ Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:13:59 am EDT from 151.205.98.2

This story arc is called "Clan Building" after all. I know it has been suggested that maybe Amp and Coco will join the Manhattan Clan, but what about the reverse?

I think it would be cool if Lex (and/or Hudson) stayed to join the London Clan, especially Lex with the intention of meeting a mate (to later discover he falls for someone else). How 'bout it? I think that would be possible and adding one Gargoyle won't drive up the Clan numbers, especially when we ultimately know that Lex's mate will be male. What do you all think?
The Gargoyles Pulse
~ Anthony Tini
posted @ Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:54:52 am EDT from 159.240.11.254

So last night I got out my copy of Bad Guys #1 to re-read in preparation for #2 today. It was a little jarring to open it and see it in black & white. I read it a few times when it first came out and then put it away, and in the months since, I've apparently been imagining/picturing/remembering it in color. So it seemed a little odd to see it in B&W.
Of course, most of the characters were on the TV show, so I know what they look like in color. But the Tazmanian Tiger is wearing an orangish-yellow costume in my mind and I don't know where that came from. (Actually he looks a little bit like Wolverine in his original costume.)
It's evidently not a problem for me that the spin-off(s) are in B&W, since I color it subconsciously in my head.
Phil - [p1anderson at go dot com]
posted @ Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:53:34 am EDT from 134.215.196.82

AAAAHHHH I can't wait...fortunately it's only 2 hours till The Fantasy Shop opens...I'm pretty sure I can make it.
Chip - [Dragonhunter723 at yahoo dot com]
Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable. -- C.S. Lewis
posted @ Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:44:52 am EDT from 68.164.2.246

I keep coming back to the thought that Brooklyn is with Angela and Broadway when he dissapears, Greg never mentioned Lex was there. So maybe Lex will still be in London when Brooklyn leaves and returns. Of course, that'd be quite the surprise for Lex and Hudson, coming home to find their Clan isn't as close to extinction as they thought.

As for Bad Guys #2, yeah should be fun to see Yama and Hunter. But I'm so excited about seeing Sora that I dreamed about it. Anyway, I'm gonna avoid the Room today until I get my copy this afternoon. Later everyone!
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:02:58 am EDT from 70.237.249.216

Lani> Thanks for the translation. Since we have two Gregs to account for, it's anyone's guess as to which of them is supposed to phone or be phoned.

New Characters> I think everyone I'd want to see has already been covered. I want to officially meet Lunette and Old Pog and see as many London clan gargoyles as possible. Since we've now seen both griffin gargs and hippogriff gargs, I'd imagine there are some strictly avian looking gargs as well. And maybe some pegasus gargs too. Incidentally, does anyone think that if Pog is generally referred to as "Old Pog", it's because "Pog" is a very common London clan name - like "Una", "Leo", and "Griff" - and there's a "Young Pog" in the clan as well? I always would like to have confirmation that Una is the clan leader and see her second. I assume it's not Leo, since he's generally at the shop with Una and the clan would probably want the second watching Knight's Spur while Una is minding the store. Aside from that, everyone else is just gravy. Duval would be nice, but in addition to it possibly being too soon, I don't really want to see Arthur disappear into his care for an extended period of time in a story arc that wouldn't get resolved until the Pendragon miniseries.

Lex and Hudson returning> I'm guessing that they will be back or on their way back sometime in issue #10 if not sooner. With Brooklyn starting his timedancing, we'll have quite enough to deal with without worrying about what Lex and Hudson are up to. Lex may be sad not to have more time to spend with Amp, but there's always the internet.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Wed, Apr 30, 2008 8:38:06 am EDT from 209.6.248.33

PURPLEGOLDFISH - There was a "Gargoyles" story in a Disney Yearbook that claimed that Elisa's birthday was on December 31 (I saw it once at a book fair, but didn't buy it), but Greg doesn't consider it canon. The only human characters whom he's assigned birthdays to so far (that I can remember) are Vinnie and Dingo.

I don't think that Duval will show up on-stage in #9; I agree with Matt that that would be too soon. I think that most (if not all) of the new characters introduced in that issue will be in the conclusion of Shari's Stone of Destiny story. (Edward I, obviously, and maybe James VI/I as well. I'm looking forward to writing their entries for the GargWiki.)

"Bad Guys" #2 should have the most dramatic recruitment scene in the entire series: Robyn recruiting Yama. Remember, she's been hunting gargoyles for almost all her life up until now, and though she wasn't as dangerously fanatical about it as Jason used to be and Jon is now, that should still mean tension when she meets the one gargoyle who joins the Redemption Squad (as opposed to humans, Mutates, and nano-artificial intelligences).
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Wed, Apr 30, 2008 7:24:16 am EDT from 4.244.215.193

Meg> I think one of the most interesting things so far about this arc is having those dates and that timeframe to keep track of things. Given the fact that we know #10 is the first issue to take place in 1997, I think it might be likely that:

A) #9 takes place over a very long period of time, since it's over a month from #8's dates until 1997 (or, it could just be not much happens between #9 and 10)
B) Lexington and Hudson do stick around a little longer to spend time with the London clan

Rebel> While I think it is a decent enough reason to stay just to get better acquainted w/ the London clan, I think that looking at it from Hudson and Lex's perspectives, new gargoyles don't come along too often. They may know about the other clans from hearing stories of the world tour, but that's nothing like experiencing it, especially considering the amount of gargoyles they've discovered in the London clan...I think I'd wanna stay around, this is a totally new experience for them since they woke up in 1994.

So, I think the dates give Lex and Hudson enough time to hang out in London for a while and still be back in time for Brooklyn's quick departure and return, although I'm assuming we won't see his return to present time until the end of #12 (man, I can't wait to see his family, hopefully as a last page cliffhanger kinda deal).
Ricky
posted @ Wed, Apr 30, 2008 5:49:48 am EDT from 151.205.98.2

Rebel> Jetlag night is Nov 3-4, they meet the London Clan Nov 13-14, and the melee with Coyote, Coldsteel, etc. is Nov 14-15.
Meg
posted @ Wed, Apr 30, 2008 1:58:01 am EDT from 138.16.28.211

My funds are low this month so I'll have to wait to get Bad Guys :( Oh well,I won't mind being spoiled.

Greg Guler pencilling #10-Awesome!!

off topic, but I'm working on the gargwiki timelines and I find it strange that Elisa doesn't have a birth month. I could have sworn that I read somewhere that it was in December, but I'm not sure where I got that from.
Purplegoldfish
posted @ Wed, Apr 30, 2008 1:38:22 am EDT from 64.148.34.218

Shara> You're in!
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"In 1977, George Lucas' "Star Wars" was released, and the intellectual and art side of filmmaking and filmgoing has been scattered to the four winds ever since."
posted @ Wed, Apr 30, 2008 1:14:05 am EDT from 75.56.245.4

Neat I forgot about the gargoyle wiki webpage. Great job who ever runs it.

I created an account and I have some pictures to put in there from the show. It said to post in here if you wanted to edit and add to the wiki.
Shara
posted @ Wed, Apr 30, 2008 1:07:21 am EDT from 76.170.156.182

Sorry for the double.

Tini > I hadn't thought of that. I naturally assumed that Hudson and Lexington would just head back to Manhattan when the current arc is over. If everything gets resolved in London, there wouldn't be a particular reason for them to stay, other than to get better acquainted with the members of the London clan. That's a decent enough reason, but I imagine they'd both feel compelled to return to Manhattan, where they are most needed (even though Lex might regret having to leave Amp, if he does indeed have a crush on him).

By the way, could someone do a quick check of something for me? The comics are lost in the clutter of my room and it would take me forever to find them. What was the date of the night Lex and Hudson first arrived in London, and what is the latest (chronological) date in which they are still in London? And what was the date of the night they first met the London clan?
Rebel
posted @ Wed, Apr 30, 2008 12:31:03 am EDT from 216.45.251.210

Matt > "Just to put things in perspective. In 2198, Lunette and Nashville will be 220 years old (like a 110 year old human), so most likely they won't be around either."

So Tachi would be 200. Yeah, I agree that it's very unlikely that either of them will still be around, but I actually think it would be really awesome if Brooklyn ended up encountering one or both of them. It would be such an eerie and creepy moment. Imagine being an elderly gargoyle, and suddenly encountering a teenaged version of your long-dead father.
Rebel
posted @ Wed, Apr 30, 2008 12:24:34 am EDT from 216.45.251.210

Will Hudson and Lexington still be in London while Brooklyn is on his time dancing adventures in 10 - 12? What do you all think?
(The Gargoyles Pulse - updated Mondays)
~ Anthony Tini
posted @ Tue, Apr 29, 2008 11:31:09 pm EDT from 70.15.84.29

I'd like confirmation that Una is indeed the leader of the London Clan and to meet her second in command.
Besides that, I expect to be introduced to lots of Scottish/English historical characters associated with the Stone of Destiny. That is where most new characters in 7 and 8 have come from afterall.
I kinda feel it is too soon for Duval. We just met Quincy Hemings afterall. Maybe another Illuminati member or something, but save Duval for Pendragon or just a bit further down the road.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Tue, Apr 29, 2008 10:54:17 pm EDT from 70.237.249.216

Duval is definitely on my list, especially since we were "briefly" teased about it (Xanatos mistaking Quincey for Duval) in Bash.

I'm also hoping to see Pog or Lunette, shoot and other members of the London Clan while we're in Britain. Plus, I'm excited to see whoever we meet in Shari's final tales.
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Tue, Apr 29, 2008 10:37:12 pm EDT from 157.242.210.57

>Translation of Post-It on Bad Guys #2 Cover

In case no one has done it yet...

It says "Now, phone Greg!" (Ima denwa, Gureggu!) Without particles or clearer context it's hard (downright impossible really) to tell if Greg is the one who made the phone call, or if he's the one who needs to be called. Still very cute and meta. Can't wait to get my hands on a copy of BG #2!
Lani - [harshsaintcry at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Tue, Apr 29, 2008 10:36:06 pm EDT from 76.78.50.35

So, Greg mentioned that new characters will be introduced in #9 as well. Who are you expecting or hoping for.

Well, if this comic has taught me anything, it's not to expect anything, except for Katana, Nashville and Fu-Dog in #12. The new characters we have met, aside from Terry Chung, aren't anyone that we've been teased about in Ask Greg for years.

But, I am hoping for Duval. He's one of the characters I've been wanting to see since, well, 1997. Given Arthur's disappearance, the "Pendragon" back-door pilot feel, and the appearance of Carbonek, does anyone else think it's possible we might finally meet Duval in the next issue?
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"In 1977, George Lucas' "Star Wars" was released, and the intellectual and art side of filmmaking and filmgoing has been scattered to the four winds ever since."
posted @ Tue, Apr 29, 2008 9:17:21 pm EDT from 75.56.245.4

Uh, Greg Weisman.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Tue, Apr 29, 2008 8:31:06 pm EDT from 70.237.249.216

Who exactly told us when Pog hatched???
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Tue, Apr 29, 2008 8:28:53 pm EDT from 75.152.103.64

* MILD #8 SPOILERS *

Old Pog hatched in 1798: that certainly is impressive. To give you all some perspective, in 1798, John Adams was President of the United States, Napoleon was invading Egypt, and Coleridge and Wordsworth's "Lyrical Ballads" was published (including "The Rime of the Ancient Mariner", the first work we discussed during the short-lived Gargoyles Book Club).

That certainly is an impressive life-span.

* MILD SPOILERS END *
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Tue, Apr 29, 2008 7:04:20 pm EDT from 4.244.213.185

Yeah, Old Pog makes Hudson look young. I doubt there are any gargoyles that are older. I just can't imagine a gargoyle in Ishimura or anywhere having been hatched in 1778 and still kicking it. That'd be like a 109 year old human...

Just to put things in perspective. In 2198, Lunette and Nashville will be 220 years old (like a 110 year old human), so most likely they won't be around either.

I'm happy to see the London Clan still raises their young communally.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Tue, Apr 29, 2008 6:39:26 pm EDT from 70.237.249.216

Greg Guler doing an entire comic is awesome because he was lead character designer on the show.

Being nocturnal, gargoyles probably have poor color vision. Therefore, it makes perfect biological sense for them not to care about skin color. Of course, that also makes it all the more important for them to be observant of other physical traits to identify friend and foe among their own kind. Which puts another strike against the argument that this is something only humans do.

59 days left until The Gathering 2008 in Chicago, Illinois!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Tue, Apr 29, 2008 5:11:25 pm EDT from 76.205.118.123

Tony> It's because Greg Guler was a major forve behind the design of many of the TV show's main characters and was THE lead character designer on season two. So it's a little like when a comic book's original artist comes back after handing the book off to other artists for several years. You may well love the work the other artists have been doing, but this artist is the one who got you into the book in the first place, the one who created the visuals. So though I've been pretty satisfied with the art on the Gargoyles comic as of late, I can't wait to see what Guler does on it.

That and his covers have been pretty uniformly amazing.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Tue, Apr 29, 2008 5:11:12 pm EDT from 209.6.248.33

***Minor Spoilers***
Pog's Age:

So if Pog was born in 1798 he'd be 198 years old as of 1996. Hudson, born in 878, is technically 1118 years old, but biologically -- should you subtract the 1000 year sleep -- he's "merely" 118, and 80 years "younger" than Pog. Wow, just . . . wow.

And let's see, 1798 . . . yep, he's been around for awhile, but I wonder how much he really knows, as the London Clan was mostly-isolated for so long.
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Tue, Apr 29, 2008 5:10:57 pm EDT from 157.242.198.185

If Pog is indeed the biological father of Griff, he would have hatched in either 1798, 1818, or 1838.
Adam - [carl006_1999 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Tue, Apr 29, 2008 4:45:21 pm EDT from 76.113.176.63

I can barely keep track of my family tree! :P

I may be sounding like a fool, but here is goes: Why is everyone so excited about Guler penciling?
The Gargoyles Pulse
~ Anthony Tini
posted @ Tue, Apr 29, 2008 4:35:42 pm EDT from 159.240.11.254

Mild #8 SPOILERS again


Numbers> So given that Old Pog is the oldest gargoyle in the London Clan, there could be up to nine generations of gargoyles currently living at Knight's Spur. There will be ten when the egg in the rookery hatch, assuming Old Pog lives long enough to see them. Old Pog is the only gargoyle left from his generation. There are twenty-five eggs in the rookery, so that means there are at least fifty gargoyles - not counting any who may be mateless - in the generations that laid their first or second eggs in 1988 (assuming I have that year right.) That leaves about 145 gargoyles who are too young to mate, too old have an egg, or going to miss their third opportunity to concieve an egg. Anyone want to take another stab at guessing the number for the eight other potential generations?
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Tue, Apr 29, 2008 4:04:58 pm EDT from 209.6.248.33

Guler news is great! :D

And if he ever did design Katana, I'd hope for something more creative than another generically "sexy" female garg.
Incisivis - [incisivis at hotmail dot com]
"No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream" -- Shirley Jackson
posted @ Tue, Apr 29, 2008 3:12:49 pm EDT from 216.36.154.204

Meg > oh YEAH! Was that the one in the catacombs? If so, I remember those pages, I really liked them.

Also, we don't know exactly how long the 2-egg-per-couple rule has been in place (do we?) so maybe Griff, Una, and Leo's eggs were laid before that rule was put in place. If that's the case, Pog (or anyone else from his rookery, not that any of them are still alive) could still be Griff's biological father.
Rebel
posted @ Tue, Apr 29, 2008 2:59:21 pm EDT from 216.45.251.210

Demonskrye>Yes, it does. Griff hatched in 1898 so his egg was laid in 1888, Pog was born in 1798, Griff would've been Pog's third egg if they are indeed related. I wonder when the London Clan instituted the no-third-egg rule. Not that it matters, since the London Clan parents communally.

Tangentially, wow, 1798. Can you imagine all the changes Pog has seen in the world, all his knowledge and such? A historian would kill to talk to someone that was born in 1798.

Rebel>Someone a while ago posted the first few pages of Chris Jones' BG#3, and it looks really really good. I hope we get to see it relatively soon....
Meg
posted @ Tue, Apr 29, 2008 2:50:21 pm EDT from 138.16.28.211

Based on Pog's age, Griff could only be his biological son if it had been Pog and his mate's third egg (Or if Pog's mate is from a younger generation ala Yama & Sora) We don't know when the London Clan adopted the policy of enforced isololation during the final heat, but assuming it was in place by 1887 then Pog could only have fathered Griff if his mate came from the 1818 or 1838 rookery. Thus it is more likely that Pog and Griff are only related distantly
Chip - [Dragonhunter723 at yahoo dot com]
Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable. -- C.S. Lewis
posted @ Tue, Apr 29, 2008 2:41:23 pm EDT from 68.164.2.154

Guler penciling > YEAAAAAHHH!!!

Also, apparently a new artist (Chris Jones) did Bad Guys #3.
Rebel
posted @ Tue, Apr 29, 2008 2:39:09 pm EDT from 216.45.251.210

Greg Guler drawing #10 is the best news since, well, ever. As far as this comic goes. I wish he had the time to do it full time. I kind of hope he draws #12 as well, since if anyone should get to design Katana, it's Greg Guler.

Demonskrye: Yeah, I figured it was Old Pog and Lunette. They were the ones depicted.

"Somewhat with a better mind for this could probably confirm it, but I think that would also make him old enough to have fathered Griff."

Not that it matters all that much. Quit thinking like a human. ;)
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"In 1977, George Lucas' "Star Wars" was released, and the intellectual and art side of filmmaking and filmgoing has been scattered to the four winds ever since."
posted @ Tue, Apr 29, 2008 1:53:55 pm EDT from 75.56.245.4

Minor Issue #8 SPOILERS

(I'm only keeping this up until BG #2 comes out, at which point I'll put up spoiler warnings when I talk about that.)

Not too much of a surprise, but Greg seems to have confirmed that the two gargoyles we saw sleeping in stone at Knight's Spur were Lunette and Old Pog. We also now know that Old Pog hatched in 1798, making him the equivalent of a nearly 100 year old human. Somewhat with a better mind for this could probably confirm it, but I think that would also make him old enough to have fathered Griff.

We also know that the clan still parents communally and that Lunette's name is from Arthurian legend (though I guess I use the term "legend" loosely.)
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Tue, Apr 29, 2008 1:49:34 pm EDT from 209.6.248.33

Demonskrye> You're right, I'm sure it will be the best looking issue yet! I'm a fan of Hedgecock's artwork, but Greg Guler doing the interior pencils, heck even if it was just a page or two, is just the ultimate most incredible news for me right now.

The little geeky fanboy inside me is doing the cabbage-patch to the Gargoyles theme, right now...and it's incredibly awkward, but sooo necessary. :P
Ricky
posted @ Tue, Apr 29, 2008 8:22:58 am EDT from 151.205.98.2

Todd> Rebel is correct; I believe the intention is a pun on "Weisman". However, if you don't realize that and you separate the word between the u and the s and use the same pronunciation, you get "Why sex." Hence "why not?" :)

Ricky> ::falls out of her chair from sheer joy:: Oh that's AWESOME! I think I can fairly say without insulting any of the previous artists that this could well be the best looking issue yet!
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Tue, Apr 29, 2008 8:03:05 am EDT from 209.6.248.33

Greg Guler is guest pencilling Gargoyles #10, how awesome is that?!
Ricky
posted @ Tue, Apr 29, 2008 7:10:22 am EDT from 151.205.98.2

I don't know if this had been revealed before yesterday, but according to "Ask Greg", Greg Guler will guest-pencil "Gargoyles" #10.

Greg Weisman also confirmed my suspicion that the man crowning Arthur in the "September 29, 500" flashback in "Gargoyles" #8 is King Pelles - which kicks off a creativity demon of my own. (Be warned: this is another of my Arthur-geekery moments.)

Some Arthurian scholars have theorized that Arthur, if he really existed, might not have been on good terms with the Church. Some early mentions of him, in the Lives of the Saints, portray him in a negative light, as corrupt, greedy, and inept. It's been hypothesized that Arthur somehow made an enemy of the Church, which is why he was depicted so unfavorably in those writings; the most common theory is that he forced it to make financial contributions for his wars with the Saxons, and the priests and monks resented him for it.

But "Gargoyles" #8 offers a hypothesis for how that hostility might have come about (assuming that it existed) in the Gargoyles Universe. Arthur is being crowned by King Pelles of Carbonek, described in Shari's tale as a "priest-king", and presumably the guardian of the Holy Grail. (Shari never mentions the Grail, but Pelles and Carbonek are both traditionally linked to it, so it's safe to assume that they're linked to it in the Gargoyles Universe as well.) Pelles is presumably a Christian, but obviously an unorthodox one from the perspective of the Catholic Church. He's not a conventional bishop or archbishop, and so his crowning Arthur might make Arthur, in the eyes of many churchmen, appear tainted. (And if the Arthur of the Gargoyles Universe openly associated with gargoyles - as he probably did - that might make things worse, if those same churchmen believed gargoyles to be demons.)

Come to think of it, that gives Arthur another trait in common with Macbeth. According to what we know of 11th century Scottish history, Macbeth was a Celtic Christian (though he did pay a visit to the Pope in Rome in 1050), which was also seen by the Roman Catholic Church at the time as unorthodox and heretical. Canmore (and his second wife Margaret, a relative of Edward the Confessor who fled to Scotland after the Norman Conquest) supported the Roman Catholic Church and played a major role in introducing it into Scotland - might even have used Macbeth's Celtic Christianity as one of his means of persuading the English to help him overthrow Macbeth.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Tue, Apr 29, 2008 7:09:27 am EDT from 4.244.208.204

Off-topic> Does anyone know where I can find some G2K7 photos? I'm in the mood to look at pictures from the last con. Thanks.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Tue, Apr 29, 2008 6:34:23 am EDT from 99.174.161.38

It should be "Weisbuy" to take advantage of subliminal advertising. :P
(The Gargoyles Pulse - updated Mondays)
Anthony Tini
posted @ Mon, Apr 28, 2008 11:01:39 pm EDT from 70.15.84.29

Todd > I'm pretty sure "Weisex" is simply supposed to be an allusion to Greg W's last name.
Rebel
posted @ Mon, Apr 28, 2008 10:34:59 pm EDT from 216.45.251.210

I asked my one friend who knows a little bit about Japanese characters, if he could help me translate the Post-It note, and the only character he recognizes is the top right one. He says that it says "person".
(The Gargoyles Pulse - updated Mondays)
Anthony Tini
posted @ Mon, Apr 28, 2008 10:31:00 pm EDT from 70.15.84.29

DEMONSKRYE - What *is* the significance of the word "Weisex"? (I don't know that much about Japanese culture - just the basics.)
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Mon, Apr 28, 2008 9:35:26 pm EDT from 4.244.214.118

Harvester > Meg pretty much covered it, so I won't rehash what she's said.

I will say, however, that it wouldn't necessarily be a "belief system" so much as a superstition or something. I doubt it would be anything religious.
Rebel
posted @ Mon, Apr 28, 2008 9:30:10 pm EDT from 216.45.251.210

Oy, double post, but I meant to say in that initial parentheses that, "after so long they MAY have wanted to opt out"
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Mon, Apr 28, 2008 9:13:40 pm EDT from 157.242.210.57

BG#2 -- I just confirmed with my local comic guy if they ordered BG#2 (because hey, after so long they have decided to opt out). Moments after I asked, they asked if I was their regular Gargoyle buyer and when I said yes, they told me they already had me covered.

The Cover is awesome, and having seen the covers for BG#3 and BG#4, it's nice to see BG#2 without the BG#1/Yama placeholder.

And even greater luck: my late class on Wednesday got cancelled so once my class at 1PM is over, I'm off to the shop!
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Mon, Apr 28, 2008 9:12:15 pm EDT from 157.242.210.57

5 months and 1 day.

See? Disney delays EVBERYTHING, so anything NOT by THEM get the greenlight NOW. ARGH.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Mon, Apr 28, 2008 8:45:51 pm EDT from 75.152.103.64

Weisex? Why no? :)

Cover looks good. I agree that a variety of different wanted poster style covers is preferable, in part because a bunch of very similar looking cover would be hard to tell apart.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Mon, Apr 28, 2008 8:32:42 pm EDT from 209.6.248.33

Really glad "Bad Guys" is coming out this week. Hopefully #3 won't be too far behind.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"In 1977, George Lucas' "Star Wars" was released, and the intellectual and art side of filmmaking and filmgoing has been scattered to the four winds ever since."
posted @ Mon, Apr 28, 2008 8:14:49 pm EDT from 75.56.245.4

Eric> I've got a three-page Uncle Scrooge story to be published by Gemstone. I'm still waiting for approval of the pencils before I letter and ink it. Disney has to approve everything and, boy, do they take their time.

Disney, taking their time on approvals? Perish the thought :-).
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Mon, Apr 28, 2008 7:33:25 pm EDT from 71.115.218.75

Harvester>It's true. I study the early modern (Renaissance) period, and the humoral system reigned in terms of medical thought. Basically, the idea was that the body was made up of four humors (black and yellow bile, blood, and phlegm). The idea was that a person's health depended on whether or not the humors were in the correct balance (where the idea of bleeding came from), but a side effect was that it was believed a person's temperament could be told by looking at their complexion. For example, a ruddy man was considered to be full of blood, and that's where we get the phrase hot-blooded: impulsive, quick to anger, etc. And actually, given that it's a medieval concept (the roots actually stretch back to medicine from BCE), it might not be outside the gargoyles' realm of thought. At least initially, when they woke up in Manhattan.
Meg
posted @ Mon, Apr 28, 2008 7:17:17 pm EDT from 138.16.28.211

I just discovered an on-line interview with Eric Shanower, the author of "Age of Bronze", a graphic novel retelling of the Trojan War (which, incidentally, I highly recommend). In the course of his interview, he mentioned that he's also writing a Scrooge McDuck story for Disney, and comments that Disney have to approve everything, and "really take their time" about it. Sound familiar?

You can read the interview here: http://www.comicon.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=39;t=000364
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Mon, Apr 28, 2008 7:15:38 pm EDT from 4.244.208.51

Rebel: Really? This is the first I've heard of that. It sounds even hokier than astrology.

I also agree with Matt that I don't see how gargoyles would really have a belief system like that. They don't even notice skin color.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"I do not apologize, old man!" -Norman Osborn ("Spectacular Spider-Man").
posted @ Mon, Apr 28, 2008 6:59:21 pm EDT from 76.123.52.7

Does anyone know what the Post-It says?
Lumpmoose - [lumpmoose at googles dot email dot service]
posted @ Mon, Apr 28, 2008 5:42:15 pm EDT from 128.101.32.234

I love the cover too. Very distinctive. I'm glad they moved away from the bulletin board in the mock-up for #2. It's obvious why Greg hates people making judgments on the early covers.
Lumpmoose - [lumpmoose at googles dot email dot service]
posted @ Mon, Apr 28, 2008 5:38:00 pm EDT from 128.101.32.234

"Gargoyles are not humans with wings. It doesn't sound very gargoylean at all to associate physical features with personaily traits."

Except... humans are NOT the only animal that reacts to visual cues to judge demeanor and predict the likely behavior of other members of their species.

60 days left until The Gathering 2008 in Chicago, Illinois!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Mon, Apr 28, 2008 5:33:58 pm EDT from 76.205.118.123

Demonskyre > That's what I think too. Gargoyles aren't perfect; it's not inconceivable that they'd make judgments about each other based on physical appearance. Personally, if they did, I don't think it'd necessarily be a bad thing. I wasn't thinking of negative judgments when I mentioned this. I was thinking about positive, more playful, fairly insignificant "predictions", really, not anything hateful.

Anthony > Agreed. 0_o
Rebel
posted @ Mon, Apr 28, 2008 4:54:54 pm EDT from 216.45.251.210

I dig, except for the name of the model of the PC monitor.
The Gargoyles Pulse
~ Anthony Tini
posted @ Mon, Apr 28, 2008 4:44:15 pm EDT from 159.240.11.254

The cover image has been released. It's on Midtown Comic's website, or you can check it out on mine.

It's great looking, I won't give it away here, but I just have to say that I love the idea of the Bad Guys covers, I think it's really clever. What do you guys think?
Ricky
posted @ Mon, Apr 28, 2008 4:34:27 pm EDT from 151.205.98.105

Yay!!!!
Chip - [Dragonhunter723 at yahoo dot com]
Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable. -- C.S. Lewis
posted @ Mon, Apr 28, 2008 4:19:20 pm EDT from 68.164.1.3

Bad Guys #2 this Wednesday confirmed by Diamond!!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooooo! After 5 months and 1 day we finally get to see what happens next! Yay!
The Gargoyles Pulse
~ Anthony Tini
posted @ Mon, Apr 28, 2008 3:48:30 pm EDT from 159.240.11.254

Matt> I agree that gargoyles aren't humans with wings and tails, but they also aren't angels with talons and tails. We don't know one way or another yet, but I don't think it it's beyond the realm of possibility that gargoyles might associate certain physical traits with character or other physical aspects of the individual, Christine's (in)famous "As above, so below" being an example of the possibilities. I'm just kind of wary og saying outright that gargoyles woulc never make any kind of judgments of other gargoyles - positive or negative, based in reality or not - based on appearance. They aren't human, but they are mortal and fallible, both as individuals and as a species.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Mon, Apr 28, 2008 12:59:27 pm EDT from 209.6.248.33

Spectacular Spider-Man

S
P
O
I
L
E
R
S

Catalyst

You know what I love about this show? It's the consistency, seven episodes in and we've yet to get anything less the great TV. Even the best shows don't usually get this far without at least one mediocre outing, yet the Spectacular Spider-Man continues to go from strength to strength. This episode stands out in particular as we are introduced to two of the most important figures in the Spidey-mythos.

First up I absolutely love this version of the Green Goblin, cunning, creepy and completely insane. Steven Blum has already solidified himself in my mind as the definitive voice of the Goblin. I especially like his banter, it's cool to have a villain who can go toe to toe with Spidey on the quip front. Credit goes to Sean Galloway for the design of Gobby's glider, darn thing looks like it could bite somebody's face off.

This episode also marks our first real look at Mary Jane Watson. I really like MJ, she's a babe and she knows it but doesn't let it go to her head.

Tombstone comes across very well in this episode, calm and calculating even when facing down a super-powered psychopath. He also had a neat xanatosian moment near the end. God do I pithy those poor goons when Tombstone tracks them down. You know at first I though that Tombstone was just some kind of front for the real Big Man but know I find myself hoping he's the real deal. This version of Tombstone is way to cool to be somebody else's flunky.

I'm guessing that Harry's Goblin Juice is a bit off misdirection on Greg's part. I figure if Harry really was the Goblin he'd be more likely to beat the crap out of Kong then try and set himself up as a crime lord. Though it's interesting that they're going with the whole mystery angle with GG.

Anyway looking forward to the next episode with Doc Ock.
Algernon
"Nobody can say I wasn't a perfect father, do you hear..? Nobody !" - Norman Osborn
posted @ Mon, Apr 28, 2008 12:03:08 pm EDT from 86.41.207.19

* CONTAINS PROBABLE SPOILERS *

Although #9 won't be out for over a month, I'm looking forward to seeing how Greg will include everything in it that will (based on what we've seen in #7 and #8 so far) need to be in it. We know that there'll almost certainly have to be the following things:

1. The resolution of the big battle (both the Steel Clan and Iron Clan robots are demolished, so that leaves just Coyote and Coldsteel. I suspect that Coldsteel will escape, though Coyote 5.0 won't be so fortunate - though at least parts of him might get into Coyote 6.0 later on.)

2. The return of Coldstone and Coldfire, and how that will be resolved (whether they will decide to return to Goliath's clan or not).

3. The resolution of Xanatos's mission for the Illuminati and Arthur's disappearance. (We know already that the final act will take place in the daytime, and involve the scene at the bridge where somebody's calling for the bomb squad.)

4. Shari completing her story about the Stone of Destiny (which will obviously have to include Edward I carrying it off to Westminster Abbey, and a few other scenes - maybe James VI of Scotland being crowned on it as James I of England, so that the Stone winds up being used for the coronation of Scottish kings again; and James has connections to Macbeth - or the 1950 theft alluded to in #7).

5. Hudson and Lexington taking their leave of the London clan.

6. The consequences of the fight with Xanatos's robots for the Manhattan clan's relationship with Xanatos.

7. The significance of Fox's shoes.

That's certainly a big list. Of course, parts of it (such as the fallout from the big robot battle) might be saved for #10, alongside the beginning of Brooklyn's Timedancer adventure, just as #7 included some consequences of the Double Date story (Goliath and Elisa getting back together again, Dr. Sato examining Maggie and revealing that she's pregnant).

* SPOILERS END *
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Mon, Apr 28, 2008 8:01:14 am EDT from 4.244.215.121

Thoughts? Gargoyles are not humans with wings. It doesn't sound very gargoylean at all to associate physical features with personaily traits.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Mon, Apr 28, 2008 5:57:01 am EDT from 70.237.249.216

Sorry for the double. After I re-read that post I just made, a thought occurred to me.

You know how humans often associate different hair colors, skin colors, and eye colors with different personality traits? I.e. red hair means a fiery personality, dark hair and eyes are "exotic", and pale skin (at least, several hundred years ago) represented purity and innocence whereas darker skin was evocative of an unsavory person (remember that "mislike me not for my complexion" line from The Merchant of Venice?).

Do you guys think Gargoyles have any myths of different personalities being associated with different skin colors, hair colors, wing designs, beaks, horns, etc.? Even if they do, I doubt they necessarily pressure each other to "conform" to them, it would probably just be something they'd mention playfully in passing (i.e. a red gargoyle hatches from his/her egg and the gargoyles watching over the rookery would say something like "Well, he's going to be a spunky one!").

Thoughts?
Rebel
posted @ Mon, Apr 28, 2008 5:28:30 am EDT from 216.45.251.210

Ah, Sora. I wonder what made Greg and co. decide to make her pink? How great would it be if Sora and Yama had a son who turned out to be pink? LOL. I doubt Gargoyles associate the color pink with femininity, but human reactions to his coloring could be funny, especially if he turned out to be an otherwise very manly-looking guy. Then again, I guess Goliath never had any problems, despite being lavender.
Rebel
posted @ Mon, Apr 28, 2008 5:20:09 am EDT from 216.45.251.210

10TH in the name of Sora's second appearance!
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Mon, Apr 28, 2008 4:22:11 am EDT from 70.237.249.216

Oops, forgot what day it was. Ninth!
Spen
"Come along. You belong. Feel the fizz."
posted @ Mon, Apr 28, 2008 3:02:44 am EDT from 66.43.205.110

8th!
Samuel - [AnglOfHellO at AOL dot com]
Noodles, anyone?
posted @ Mon, Apr 28, 2008 2:37:17 am EDT from 68.34.85.157

7th in the name of... of...

Well, I'm 7th.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Mon, Apr 28, 2008 2:16:47 am EDT from 99.174.161.38

6th in the name of Ironman coming out this Friday
Charisma82
"It's better to have a horrible ending than to have horrors without end."
posted @ Mon, Apr 28, 2008 1:38:00 am EDT from 64.13.117.74

5th in the name of watching Back to the Future on the big screen!
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Mon, Apr 28, 2008 12:36:09 am EDT from 157.242.210.57

4th!!
Rebel
posted @ Mon, Apr 28, 2008 12:32:12 am EDT from 216.45.251.210

3rd~!!
The One Known As Mochi - [shogi dot keima dot 08 at gmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>*.*)> My stomach...
posted @ Mon, Apr 28, 2008 12:29:22 am EDT from 72.199.224.230

2nd in the name of bg #2 coming out this week!!
dph_of_rules
Whatever happened to simplicity?
posted @ Mon, Apr 28, 2008 12:02:03 am EDT from 98.20.240.192

1st!
Asatira
posted @ Mon, Apr 28, 2008 12:00:18 am EDT from 97.82.36.198