Comment Room Archive : Gargoyles : Station Eight

Re: Todd's creativity demon about an alternate ending to "Angels in the Night"

Although having the clan smashed to bits after saving the train full of people may seem permanent...not necessarily so, if Xanatos could get a hold of the shards of stone. Heck, he only had BITS of Coldstone, Coldsteel, and Coldfire. If he had almost the entirety of the Manhattan clan, who knows what he might be able to accomplish. Maybe even a full resurrection would be possible (but if any writer went that route, with resurrections becoming as easy as they are in your average superhero comic or, lately, in the Buffyverse, it might cheapen the impact of death scenes in the series. I'm not a huge fan of resurrections).

I just thought of something...were there any lines in the show by Othello, Iago, or Desdemona to indicate that they remembered a state of peacefulness or of being asleep after they were brought back into that cyber-limbo ? Has Greg ever addressed what they remember, if they have any feeling at all of "where" or what they were before being brought back ? Not that I really need the Garg-verse concept of "heaven" laid out for me (with a series borrowing from so many mythologies, I dunno if I'd want Greg to for sure pin one down, better to leave it open).

If I noticed more than one mistake in the dialogue/lettering of Bad Guys #4, how do I go about notifying Greg W ? I'll admit to being a bit of a spelling and grammar nazi (anyone else wanna take a red pen to the newspaper some days?). I want the Bad Guys TPB to be as polished as possible (since it'll be what I direct potential readers to when it's released, unless I find any diehards who I think would be willing to buy the four issues from Slave Labor's website despite only having to buy the trade again for the conclusion).

There was more than just Yama's (to Hunter), "Oh good, you've been unconscious for some"..."time" was the missing word, as has been mentioned here already.

Just caught up on a couple months' worth of comment board posts. Bad Guys #4 was perfect. Possibly my favorite issue of either series so far.
Anonymous
posted @ Sun, Sep 28, 2008 2:16:08 am EDT from 24.137.192.172

I actually wonder if there might have been friction between Una/Coco and Griff if Griff wasn't generally off gallivanting around the world with Arthur. Griff is (obviously) a pretty take-charge kind of guy, and I'm sure he was at least in the running to be clan second in the 40s before he disappeared. I wonder if Coco and/or Una ever felt that he stepped on their toes when he came back, trying to be a little too in-charge, or if he felt too awkward/wasn't accustomed enough yet to the new world for that to happen before he left.
Meg
posted @ Sun, Sep 28, 2008 1:55:29 am EDT from 70.128.224.78

Cool Hand Luke, HUD and "Fast" Eddie Felson... Paul Newman... RIP.

I LOVED The Hustler... :(
Battle beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Sun, Sep 28, 2008 1:50:11 am EDT from 75.156.188.25

Here's a fantastic piece of Gargoyles art I stumbled upon, that I don't think anyone should miss!

http://shadowcat1001.deviantart.com/art/Gargoyle-Angela-98910206
Ricky
posted @ Sat, Sep 27, 2008 8:05:49 pm EDT from 141.149.41.106

oops forgot to put up Myspace address
http://www.myspace.com/sweetandinnocentvicky
VickyUK - [vickyfanofwwe at aol dot com]
posted @ Sat, Sep 27, 2008 2:42:28 pm EDT from 64.12.117.134

Hi Just got back from Collectormania, Which was in a middle of a shopping centre so it was very busy. I wore my Hot Topic Gargoyle Shirt.I got Autographs from John Rhys Davies who was very nice and had a quick chat, He signed My Trade paperback (he forgot how to spell Macbeth. he wasn't sure if it was Mcbeth or Macbeth LOL) I also got a photo with him. Michael Dorn was ok but wasnt very talkative and I wasn't allowed to have my photo done with him. he did have a photoshoot for tomorrow but I can't make it.

There were lots of DEALERS STALLS I bought a few things including a Gargoyles Badge which I found but Sadly there wasn't any other Gargoyle Merchandise. I spoke to couple of People who like Gargoyles and they knew about the comic books ect. So it was a good day

Photo's are up on MySpace if you want to check them out.
VickyUK - [vickyfanofwwe at aol dot com]
posted @ Sat, Sep 27, 2008 2:23:26 pm EDT from 64.12.117.134

The fire and passage of time theme make this song ideal for TimeDancer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKu2QaytmrM
Some of the lines in the song are just so apt.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Many a small thing has been made large by the right kind of advertising." -Mark Twain, 'A Connecticult Yankee in King Arthur's Court'
posted @ Sat, Sep 27, 2008 9:54:14 am EDT from 70.237.219.15

I figured this'd be the perfect TIMEDANCER song. ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0FTe15YAO0
Brook
posted @ Sat, Sep 27, 2008 6:01:32 am EDT from 84.191.249.142

Since when did that virgin theme come up here? LOL

Anyways - what I gotta say is that I waited fairly long (considering the fact that most people've got their first time at the age of 14... ouch...) for the right girl to happen - it was definetely worth the wait. Then again, I'm one of the, probaby few, who thinks people should listen to their hearts when it comes to this, neither to their head or to their... ugh... bellies. If you feel like having the right person, you should definetey do it.

I can see why people hesitate because of moral standarts, religion, even anxiety or paranoia, but I really think those things shouldn't come in the way of something I consider a very adult, playful and beautiful way of physical communication.
Brook
posted @ Sat, Sep 27, 2008 5:46:50 am EDT from 84.191.249.142

Spen and Blaise>
I'm a virgin too, and quite proud of it...of course for me it's also a religous thing.

Coco's reveal as Una's second is a bit surprising to me, I would have pegged Leo or Staghart as second. It's still cool though, and the more I think about it, the more I like it..
Chip - [Sir_Griff723 at yahoo dot com]
"A great many of those who 'debunk' traditional...values have in the background values of their own which they believe to be immune from the debunking process."--C.S. Lewis
posted @ Sat, Sep 27, 2008 4:06:32 am EDT from 68.164.2.57

Haha, I was just strolling through some of my friends favorited vids on YouTube and I happened to hear this song. I havnt heard it in a very long time but dont you think its just PERFECT to describe TimeDancer. Here, take a listen for yourself (ignore the video its set to if you want; its Heroes):

Standing Outside the Fire by Garth Brooks - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t330-iWFgCs&feature=related

Man, Im half tempted to make a little music video off of this song. Hmm... maybe Ill just do that, once the paperback comes out. But isnt this song just like the best theme ever for Brooklyn and his epic journey? I definitelly think so.
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Sat, Sep 27, 2008 12:58:43 am EDT from 209.243.38.5

Of the six clans that we know about, the Manhattan clan has a male as both leader and second, while the London clan has a female as both leader and second. The other four clans, Mayan, Ishimura, Avalon, and Labyrinth all have a male leader and female second.
Adam - [carl006_1999 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Sat, Sep 27, 2008 12:23:00 am EDT from 76.113.176.63

****Blaise appears in a ball of light.**** Well, my computer can work for short periods of time. I might as well make the best of it.

SPEN> Hey, I'm a member of the "Virgin Club," too. Most of the time, I'm okay with that, but sometimes I think to myself "Shouldn't I have done 'it' by now?" But, hey, it's not like I've actually been LOOKING.

COCO AS SECOND> Wow...a double surprise--Coco as Second, and Greg revealing it so quickly. I would have expected an older gargoyle, myself, but it's kind of cool to have Coco be the Second for the London clan.
Is this the first time we've had a clan with both a female Leader *and* a female Second? Kind of neat!

Until next time! ****Blaise sticks his thumb in his mouth and blows, swelling himself up like a balloon in the process. He then floats out through the skylight.****
Blaise
posted @ Sat, Sep 27, 2008 12:10:01 am EDT from 66.81.255.166

I don't know if it has been said, but I'm not surprised that Griff isn't second in command. First of all, he was presumed dead, and then after coming back from the dead he disappears with King Arthur for a little while. Plus, Griff and King Arthur have been busy doing their own thing, right? So, Coco as second makes sense to me.
The Gargoyles Pulse
~ Tony Tini
posted @ Fri, Sep 26, 2008 11:39:13 pm EDT from 70.15.84.29

I was surprised yet happy to see that Coco is second. I think she would make a good second and possibly even leader. She's strong, tough, and resilient. The only downside is that she may not think talk is a good way to solve a problem. I get the feeling that she's the kind of person who would resort to violence rather than reason. But, perhaps under Una's guidance, she can learn how to keep a cool head.
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Fri, Sep 26, 2008 9:38:34 pm EDT from 192.146.226.148

Blaise : "seriously, how many men feel they are deficent just because they're virgins?"

I'm a virgin. Personally, when I think about that fact at all, I'm somewhat proud to have held onto principle for this long. Of course, mine probably isn't the usual reaction, but I can't be the only guy who feels this way.
Spen
"Come along. You belong. Feel the fizz."
posted @ Fri, Sep 26, 2008 8:20:14 pm EDT from 66.43.205.110

I am not saying that Griff should be second, I just think he should be the one in charge of patrolling London since he is the only one in the clan with any experience. On January 24th Griff came forward to the present time, and May 19th he became King Arthur's knight.
Adam - [carl006_1999 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Fri, Sep 26, 2008 8:00:47 pm EDT from 76.113.176.63

MATT - In your sig, you spelled "Connecticut" "Connecticult". I just thought I should tell you. (And please, no bad jokes from anybody here who dislikes Connecticut.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Fri, Sep 26, 2008 7:43:24 pm EDT from 4.244.213.126

I didn't expect Greg to reveal Constance as Second so easily... Very interesting...
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Many a small thing has been made large by the right kind of advertising." -Mark Twain, 'A Connecticult Yankee in King Arthur's Court'
posted @ Fri, Sep 26, 2008 6:57:33 pm EDT from 70.237.198.243

Litwolf> Okay, I HATE using this word, but there's no way to describe it else: making an "Asian" character yellow = politically incorrect, because of the "Yellow Peril", among other things. I really doubt that if Katana is yellow there would be any backlash, but THAT is why Greg B made that comment.

Rebel> Is this the muscular female you're talking about? http://members.aol.com/bellegarg1/Screenshots/GS01/01-065.jpg I definetly see some boobage going on.

Coco> I LOVE the idea of her being a second-in-command: not only because I like her design, but because Coco is simply awesome.

Though Coco's design does show that Greg W. is to an extent aware of the lack of diversity for female designs in the previous series, the only reason I can come up with for Katana not being a generically pretty-by-human-standards gargoyle is because it would replicate Malibu/Delilah too much, which is already a replication of FT Brooklyn/Demona
Incisivis - [incisivis at hotmail dot com]
"No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream" -- Shirley Jackson
posted @ Fri, Sep 26, 2008 6:56:59 pm EDT from 216.36.154.204

Coco could have been appointed second-in-command before Griff rematerialised. Even if Una had wanted Griff to be her second, she'd then have had to tell Coco she no longer had the job. That's a bit harsh considering Coco hadn't done a bad job (as far as we know). And, yes, Griff probably won't be around very much, making him a poor choice anyway.
Supermorff
posted @ Fri, Sep 26, 2008 6:21:09 pm EDT from 86.140.65.158

Adam> I think the main reason that Griff isn't the second is because of his obligations as the first of King Arthur's new knights. They may be staying at Knight's Spur for the time being, but they could leave at any time to check out a new lead on where Merlin might be or some other adventure. The second needs to be someone who will be around should the leader be unavailable or incapacitated, and Griff just can't guarantee that he'll be there for his clan if there's trouble.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Fri, Sep 26, 2008 5:59:57 pm EDT from 146.115.115.33

I think Coco as Una's second seems both right and wrong. I wan see why she would be second as she seems more outgoing and more interested in defending London. It also makes sense to have her in charge of patrolling London since Una probably spends most of her time at Into the Mystic.

But I always pictured Griff as being the one in charge of patrolling London since he is the only one in the clan with any experience. When I thought of leadership type roles within the London Clan, I thought of Una (the leader) at the shop, a very important part of the clan, her second in charge of the estate with help from some of the elders in the clan, and Griff in charge of patrolling London.
Adam - [carl006_1999 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Fri, Sep 26, 2008 5:52:46 pm EDT from 170.112.1.251

Greg has just revealed that Constance is second-in=command of the London Clan.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Fri, Sep 26, 2008 3:36:51 pm EDT from 146.115.115.33

Matt > I know...that's precisely why I specifically stated that individuals living in primitive societies are not less evolved. It's just that their societies are not as advanced...

Anyway, I agree that there is a definite connection between body size and wing structure.
Rebel
posted @ Fri, Sep 26, 2008 2:00:10 pm EDT from 76.165.36.242

It seems there's a little debate over why Brooklyn acts the way he does around females, so here's another question: what do people think his romantic life was like before the Wyvern Massacre?
Supermorff
posted @ Fri, Sep 26, 2008 1:01:30 pm EDT from 86.140.65.158

****Blaise walks in with crossed fingers.**** Okay, for the moment my computer seems to be working. Here's hoping it stays that way for a while....

MATT> I'm not sure I follow. My "arguments" don't seem to me to indicate that Brooklyn and any of the three mentioned females should have been together at all. Each of the reasons I've given are arguably just as shallow as any infatuation based on physical attraction--and, yes, looks are definitely a major factor (if not THE major factor) in Brooklyn's pursuit of any female so far. In the case of Delilah, I do think it is just going for any available attractive female (like I said, anything beyond that COULD exist, but it's not likely).
But based on his behavior, as well as his description as a "swashbuckler" in the Writer's Bible, and some of Greg's answers, I do believe that the "damsel in distress" angle was a factor with Maggie, at least.
I stand by my thoughts, also, that he may have had a sense of "entitlement" as you call it--albeit perhaps on a subconcious level. And as for thinking he already had the girl when he didn't...that pretty much sums up what I thought about his pursuit of Angela (come "The Journey" he's convinced himself they're an item only to see very definite proof that they're not).
At any rate, my point was there are multiple reasons for Brooklyn's "mate hunt"--one of which may be a self-imposed pressure to find a mate because he feels he SHOULD have one, not out of a sense of entitlement, so much, as he thinks a mate is something he needs to have to be "true" adult gargoyle (seriously, how many men feel they are deficent just because they're virgins?).

Now, let's see if I can post this before my computer crashes again. ****Blaise fades away, his fingers remaining crossed the whole time.****
Blaise
posted @ Fri, Sep 26, 2008 9:54:54 am EDT from 66.81.104.6

Rebel> I'm reluctant to use the term "less evolved" because biologically that statement is meaningless. All living things evolve. Every time reproduction happens or a lifeform dies or whatever evolution is happening. A bacterium is not "less evolved" than a human. Evolution isn't about degrees. It is either happening (like in a living species) or it is not happening (like in a rock). There is such a thing as a more complex organism, but not a more or less evolved one.
Also, I have my doubts about gargoyles being the most monogamous species ever. They mate for life and if their mate dies before the end of their reproductive career they are very unlikely to take another mate. Other organisms do this. In fact, there are some organisms which simply die themselves if their mate does. Gargoyles have a strict monogamy, it's true, but Hudson is still with us, so they are not the most extreme monogamists in the biological world.
As for your main point concerning female body size, I wonder if there is a reason we don't see females that are the size of Lex. Perhaps to be capable of egg production, female gargoyles have evolved to always be an optimal size for the task.

On a related note, I have a hypothesis that gargoyle size is determined by the same genes that wing makeup comes from. I've noticed that wing type, number of wing digits and especially the number of membrane supporting wing digits directly correlates to the overall body size of the gargoyle. If you take Lex or the "little Green One" gargoyle in Demona's Clan you see one wing digit branching from the body with no major jointing. This creates small wings and thus a small gargoyle. In medium size gargoyles, like Brooklyn we still only have only one membrane supporting digit, but other digits exist and there is major joints in the wing leading to a moderatly sized gargoyle. Then we have gargoyles like Goliath and Kai who have many wing digits, many of which support their wing membranes, and there is a lot of complexity in the wing joints. These gargoyles are probably the largest. SO you'd never see a gargoyle Goliath's size with Lex's wings. Just a thought, I'd love to hear opinions on the idea.

bluewyvern> From everything we've heard from Greg, it sounds like Brooklyn never even touches the Gate during his whole TimeDance. Apparently the fiery portal opens before him at "random" times and places and he jumps through to his next destination hoping each time that it'll bring him home.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Many a small thing has been made large by the right kind of advertising." -Mark Twain, 'A Connecticult Yankee in King Arthur's Court'
posted @ Fri, Sep 26, 2008 8:25:06 am EDT from 70.237.198.243

bluewyvern> Nope, he doesn't have the Gate onhand. From what I read, he comes close to getting it, only to fall through a portal create by the Gate.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Fri, Sep 26, 2008 1:11:54 am EDT from 71.120.226.102

Matt> Hmm. He does have the actual Gate talisman, right? I think it lands near him, he picks it up, and off he goes? I guess he probably doesn't know the incantation, but for some reason I had the idea that he could activate it whenever he wanted, but just couldn't control the destination. Much like the skiff. I suppose it's more likely that it just flares up on its own, though, probably at some very awkward moments.

Oh, well. Doesn't change my entirely-not-even-remotely-canon-friendly scenario much, anyway. ;)
bluewyvern
"Attend the petty jealousies and angers that prey upon your heart."
posted @ Fri, Sep 26, 2008 12:15:17 am EDT from 69.112.108.43

One thing I hope to see soon--and whether it's Katana or some other female--is a female who is as tall and as buff (or nearly as buff) as Goliath. Since gargoyles are a monogamous species, it doesn't make sense that there should be a significant size difference between males and females. We've seen a great deal of size variation in males--they can be as small as Lex or as big as Goliath/Kai. But so far, all the females we've seen have been about the same size...a sort of "medium size". Bigger than Brooklyn and Lex, but not as big as some of the other males we've seen. Even Coco, who is much broader and buffer than the other females we've seen, still doesn't look like she's much taller than the females we've seen so far.

In nearly all naturally (socially, genetically, or sexually) monogamous species, there's not a huge size difference between males and females. You can look this up if you want. The exception to this is humans, because our monogamy came about through the evolution of our societies, not through the evolution of our bodies. This is why a lot of "primitive" human societies still use polygamy/polygyny, even though the actual people in those societies are not less evolved than people in modern societies.

Gargoyles seem to be the most monogamous species in existence. Whereas most monogamous animals are socially monogamous, but not necessarily sexually monogamous (i.e., they will have only one mate at a time, but they may cheat on their mate), gargoyles seem to be both socially, and sexually, monogamous. For the most part, they don't even use serial monogamy, which is what humans use (only one mate at a time, but there can be multiple mates throughout the lifetime). From what Greg has told us, a gargoyle taking a new mate after their first mate dies is a very rare occurrence. Thus, they are EXTREMELY monogamous...so a significant body size difference between the sexes wouldn't make any sense, because males wouldn't be constantly competing to protect their access to females (which is why most polygynous species have males which are larger than females).

So, I hope that we will soon see some very large females. Logically, there ought to be nearly as many females that are as tall as Goliath as there are males. There does seem to be a very large female in Awakening--she's blue, and I believe she carries a sword and shield. But, I honestly can't tell for certain whether she's female or not, because you can never see her head-on.
Rebel
posted @ Thu, Sep 25, 2008 11:39:47 pm EDT from 76.165.36.255

I dunno, Blaise, your arguments concerning brooklyn sound more like the arguments hardcore Brook fans have made about why he should've ended up with so-and-so and less like arguments supported by Brooklyn's behavior. I don't see him feeling entitled to get the girl. I see him thinking he has the girl when he doesn't. I see him going after the girl merely based on looks.

bluewyvern> I don't think we are going to see Brooklyn "activate" the Gate. If he had that ability, he'd use it to get home straight away. Remeber what Angela said: "Without a mind to direct the Gate, it'll be forever lost in time." And Goliath's response: "Yes. And beyond the reach of all who desire it." Brooklyn will be one who desires it, to use to get back home, but it always remains just out of reach. The Gate will take him where it needs/wants to take him, with no one mind directing it.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Many a small thing has been made large by the right kind of advertising." -Mark Twain, 'A Connecticult Yankee in King Arthur's Court'
posted @ Thu, Sep 25, 2008 11:00:57 pm EDT from 70.237.196.83

****One of the candles on the birthday cake flares particularly bright. It shoots forth a pillar of flame, out of which steps Blaise. He then steps down of the table and onto the floor.**** Still using library computers....

DEMONSKRYE> Happy belated Birthday!

KATANA'S APPEARANCE> For some reason, common color or not, I tend to see Katana as a deep blue.
Also, I'll admit, I see her with a more human-like face (largely for the reason that it's what *I* would find attractive), but a beak would be more daring.
Beyond that...heck, I'll just wait until I actually see her.

BROOKLYN AND RELATIONSHIPS> So far, the only reasons folks seem to have given for Brooklyn's pursuit of any available winged female are either hormones ("I NEED A DATE--NOW!!!"), or desperation ("This is the only time I'll ever be happy!"). I think there is another factor to consider as well...Brooklyn is a would-be swashbuckler. That is to say he probably has an overly romantic view of what love is (no pun intended).
Some examples:
-Maggie: Yeah, her resemblance to a gargoyle was a major turn on, but so was the fact that she was pretty much a damsel-in-distress (one of the few in this series). So, naturally, he sees himself in the role of the Big Damn Hero who rescues her, sweeps her off her feet, carries her off to his castle, and they lived happily ever after, the end. Instead of swooning in his arms, however, she shoots him in the face. Their interactions DID get better from there, but Maggie never loved him, and Brooklyn...shallow crush or not, his helping her free Talon was a sort of "I Want My Beloved To Be Happy" moment. If anything, it shows a greater maturity. Not great enough to avoid future relationship problems, however.
-Angela: The first real female gargoyle (other than a certain red-headed genocidal maniac) he's seen since the night before the Massacre. Not only is she available and attractive, she's also the "boss's daughter." Many people have speculated at how he deals with Demona as her mother, but the fact that she's the daughter of the clan's current leader may have led him to believe that, as Second in Command, he had dibs (so to speak). And before anybody mentions it--yes, I know "daughters and sons belong to the whole clan" and doubtless Hudson feels that way, but I can't help but feel that Brooklyn's perception may be slightly colored on that front. Then, too, there are the times that Brooklyn gets hurt and Angela rushes to his side (like in "The Reckoning" and "Hunter's Moon"). A number of fans believed this meant that Angela had feelings for Brooklyn beyond the concern of a comrade, so it's not much of a stretch to surmise that Brooklyn may have thought that, too. I wouldn't be surprised if he had actually convinced himself that she loved him when he went into the library (for whatever reason) and saw her kissing Broadway. Maybe that's why he seems to brood on this particular "heartbreak" so much.
-Delilah: Okay, here it probably really is just 'cause she's the only available female around, BUT maybe there is something else. The rest of the clones don't seem to be too bright, or at the very least not well-educated, so maybe Brooklyn saw himself as taking on a sort of..."mentor" role with her. Mind you, this would be with a view forward to the "What is this thing you call 'Love'" lesson, but again, he would have seen himself as a sort of "hero" for her. Of course, she's a LOT smarter than first impressions. Her leaning on Malibu (his CLONE), however, was like pouring lemon juice on a paper cut.
Mind you, this is all just my supposition (and that last bit with Delilah is a REAL stretch), but I really do think that more motivates Brooklyn to seek a mate than JUST sex. He probably thinks that, as the Second in Command and most traditionally attractive of the Trio (beak notwithstanding) he should get the girl. He may also feel that the fact he didn't get the girl means there is something wrong with him. Again, just my supposition.

BROOKLYN'S SCAR/DISFIGUREMENT> I prefer not to speculate and just be surprised, but I couldn't suppress the idea that something evocative of the "Hunter" scarring might be interesting as a sort of echo/parallel.

Well, I've used up my allotted time, so I'd better finish this up. Until next time, farewell. ****Blaise dives into a glass of water, vanishing in its depths.****
Blaise
posted @ Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:41:14 pm EDT from 206.170.104.31

Hmm, never thought about that before. That would make me 21! Oh to be a Gargoyle and age slower. *sigh*
Becky-enjoy 17 while you can-trust me.
Wingless
posted @ Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:58:25 pm EDT from 99.245.254.123

8 1/2, Becky ;)
VoLpE de FuEgO - [sailorx78 at hotmail dot com]
too tired to type one T_T
posted @ Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:39:28 pm EDT from 75.74.224.252

so i'm 17 years old. how old would that make me in Gargoyle years?
Becky - [beckybug1991 at aol dot com]
Becky :)
posted @ Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:24:52 pm EDT from 71.7.116.47

For the record: I've always imagined Katana as a typical humanoid-looking Ishimura gargoyle, tall and buff -- moreso than any female I can think of that we've seen, though I also imagined Hippolyta with a similar physique -- with bone spurs, Desdemona-type split wings, black hair, and deep cobalt blue skin. Nashville I imagined having Brooklyn's coloring but no beak and split wings, and Tachi with Katana's coloring and a smallish, rounded beak, much like the beaked Ishimura female in the picture, with the usual Scottish-style wings. Oh, and I see Fu-Dog as pit-bull shaped rather like Bronx, and flame-colored.

A long time ago I did a fanart of the Timedancing family as I thought they'd appear upon their return, but either it was before much was known or I was seriously misinformed, because I drew Tachi as elder and male, about 20 years old, and Nashville about 10 (human 10 and 5). I think Nashville is still supposed to be about 10 years old when he shows up, right? So I guess I got that part right, which is good, because he was a cute little tyke. Only he'll have a younger sister in an egg, not an older brother with him!

I wish I had a scan of that picture, it would be nice to post for posterity. I don't even know where the original is any more. :(

While I'm sharing my apocryphal Timedancer ideas, I may as well add my creativity demon about how Tachi got her name (also from before I realized she would arrive unhatched): the family has landed in the Jurassic period, with a young Nashville and Tachi's egg in tow (I pictured a kind of sling that they would use to transport the egg around so they could glide with it hanging suspended between them). They're on a grassy hill and the egg is hatching, but there's also a stampede of raptors that just happens to be headed towards them. With no time to wait for the egg to hatch properly, Katana draws her small tachi blade and uses it to split open the eggshell, freeing the hatchling. She scoops the hatchling up as Brook grabs Nash's hand and activates the Phoenix Gate, and they escape just as the raptors storm the hill, crushing the eggshell under their claws. Katana keeps the blade and later presents it to Tachi as her first weapon in honor of the event.

Now c'mon, Greg, let's see just how wrong I am about it all! :)
bluewyvern
"Attend the petty jealousies and angers that prey upon your heart."
posted @ Thu, Sep 25, 2008 8:54:08 pm EDT from 69.112.108.43

"Litwolf> this might explain why Greg Bishansky said that about Katana being yellow: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YellowPeril" --Incisivis

No yellow gargoyle because of a superhero? I'm not really sure what its saying. *reads again* Is it saying that yellow is a stereotypical color of Japan? Hmm, I guess if we're fearing to offend someone, we should avoid yellow.

But what other color would suit her? Green and blue just seem too common; Katana needs a color to stand out. Im stumped... or maybe just tired ^_^
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Thu, Sep 25, 2008 8:22:37 pm EDT from 209.243.38.5

This might have been mentioned before, but Greg's confirmation that Lunette is Leo and Una's biological daughter reminded me of my initial response to her when I first read "Gargoyles" #8. In TGS, Leo and Una had a biological daughter named Lucy, who was in the rookery generation corresponding to the one that Lunette is in in the comics (that would be the gargoyle equivalent of around ten in the late 1990's). And both names start with "Lu". There are some obvious differences (Lucy resembled a lioness rather than a unicorn, for example), but it's still an amazing coincidence (though I see it as nothing more than that).

While her name's a logical derivation from "Leo" and "Una", I see an additional significance. The original Lunette was from an Arthurian romance about a knight named Yvain; she's a major character in the story, who helps him when he's in trouble, and later on he rescues her when she's in need. Now, one of Yvain's chief deeds in the romance is coming to the aid of a lion in danger; the lion teams up with him and fights by his side thereafter. I'd suspected even before "Gargoyles" #8 came out that in the Gargoyles Universe, the lion was actually a gargoyle with a leonine appearance, like Leo. So that raises the question: was Lunette also named to honor the friend of a friend of the clan's ancestors?

(Another place in the Arthurian legend where lions show up is a scene in Malory, where Lancelot finds the gates of Carbonek guarded by two lions. Could gargoyles have once done guard duty at Carbonek, just as they later did at Castle Wyvern, for example? Though, with Carbonek's present links to the Illuminati, I can't imagine any gargoyles willingly serving there nowadays.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, Sep 25, 2008 7:58:58 pm EDT from 4.244.215.99

Wow that's just in:

Apparently, she's looking like a FISH!! :O ZOMFG!!!
Brook
posted @ Thu, Sep 25, 2008 7:51:32 pm EDT from 84.191.224.164

Katana's coloring > I think there are two colors that we can safely rule out: green and white. It seems to me that these are the colors that Katana/Sata has been most often represented as in fanart...and while I doubt Greg spends much/any time looking at fanart, he is probably at least aware of this. He will probably want to distance the canon Katana from the fanon versions of her as much as possible.

I consider this a shame, because I think a white gargoyle would be kickass...though I wouldn't be too keen on her being green. We've seen a lot of green gargoyles. If she ends up being green, I hope she's a deep, rich, dark shade of green, since we haven't seen that shade before (I don't think). That's actually something worth considering--she could easily be a color we've seen before, just a different shade. I.e., even though Hudson is brown, Katana could also be brown...but maybe she might be a rich, chocolatey shade of brown instead. The possibilities are endless, really.

For all of the above, I'm talking only about skinned gargoyles, not furred or feathered ones. So even though I know we've seen white gargoyles amongst the London clan already, that still doesn't quite fill the aesthetic niche of having a white, skinned, more humanoid gargoyle.

I think it'd be cool if Katana had a unique wing design that we haven't seen yet...has anyone read the Marvel gargoyles comics? I'd like to see a gargoyle with a canon wing design like the marvel character Lavonne. It's sorta like Lex's wings, except larger and less flying-squirrel-esque. It's hard to explain.
Rebel
posted @ Thu, Sep 25, 2008 7:25:59 pm EDT from 76.165.36.255

I doubt that Brooklyn's pursuit of Maggie, Angela, and Delilah had anything to do with the fact that they are attractive...I think it had to do with the fact that they are bipedal, winged females. He probably still would have pursued all of them even if they hadn't been attractive by gargoyle or human standards. So, I don't see how him ending up with an unattractive female would be teaching a moral lesson. Even if he saw a female who looked as unattractive as Coco, I bet he'd still pursue her too.

Also, we honestly don't know how important physical attractiveness is to gargoyles. It's obviously relevant, but it seems like lots of other factors come into play, like personality, battle prowess, and smell. For gargoyles, "beautiful" may be any combination of these factors. Maybe gargoyles care more about smell than appearance. Who knows?
Rebel
posted @ Thu, Sep 25, 2008 7:17:01 pm EDT from 76.165.36.255

Litwolf> this might explain why Greg Bishansky said that about Katana being yellow: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YellowPeril

Brook> I still stick by my idea that the "hottest" female gargoyle might not be the most humanoid. At least remember that Brooklyn was attracted to Maggie, who had a muzzle.

Ishimura> It's scary how much that "Meiyo" looks like Ariana from TGS, isn't it? O_O

I'd love to see a beaked female gargoyle, but I'm really not going to be satisfied until said character has a speaking role, and you can tell for certain that they are female. Not that I don't think "Meiyo" is, but her picture is small and blurry. With access to the model sheets, it might be more satisfying.

Likewise, I do'nt want Katana to be anything conventinal when it comes to what we usually see in the series, and it would seem bad to not divert fans' expecatations, but I still feel that's what we're going to get. *sigh*
Incisivis - [incisivis at hotmail dot com]
"No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream" -- Shirley Jackson
posted @ Thu, Sep 25, 2008 7:10:11 pm EDT from 216.36.154.204

I can't really say I blame Brooklyn for thinking the way he does. I always figured that gargoyles dream while in stone sleep, and to have the kinds of dreams that most of us probably had when we were teenagers, non-stop for a thousand years, would probably drive anyone nuts.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Do you wanna know why I use a knife? Guns are too quick. You can't savor all the... little... emotions. In... you see, in their last moments, people show you who they really are. So in a way, I know your friends better than you ever did. Would you like to know which of them were cowards?" -The Joker
posted @ Thu, Sep 25, 2008 6:00:46 pm EDT from 24.125.223.13

Adam> D'oh, I meant 5. Add 5. 59 gargoyles in 2098, 15 beasts.
Supermorff
posted @ Thu, Sep 25, 2008 5:59:11 pm EDT from 86.140.65.158

Adam> Then add 3.
Supermorff
posted @ Thu, Sep 25, 2008 5:57:43 pm EDT from 86.140.65.158

Yes, but the four original could be alive in 2098.
Adam - [carl006_1999 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Thu, Sep 25, 2008 5:51:33 pm EDT from 76.113.176.63

Adam> Argh! You're right. I only looked up the age of Obsidiana and assumed all four were the same age. Stupid mistake.

However, that only produces a single extra gargoyle, doesn't it? It won't change the calculation because that gargoyle won't have a mate and won't produce any eggs. So... add 1 to all my totals, I guess. Does that solve it?
Supermorff
posted @ Thu, Sep 25, 2008 5:30:38 pm EDT from 86.140.65.158

Supermorff- Correction, I think that you forgot that Turquesa and Jade are younger than the other two, and would have eggs in 1998, 2018, and 2038 while Zafiro and Obsidiana would have eggs in 1978, 1998, and 2018.
Adam - [carl006_1999 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Thu, Sep 25, 2008 4:56:19 pm EDT from 76.113.176.63

Supermorff- I think you forgot that Zafiro/Obsidiana and Turquesa/Jade would continue to have eggs. There would be 2 to hatch in 2018 and one in 2038. If the ones that hatch in 2018 are male/female, then they would have eggs in 2078 and 2098.
Adam - [carl006_1999 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Thu, Sep 25, 2008 4:53:01 pm EDT from 76.113.176.63

The final monthly Diamond estimate of sales to US speciality stores. Remember, the figures aren't reliable or exhaustive enough to be authoritative, but they show the broad trends which is all that really needs concern us I should think.

165. Gargoyles #1 (7,500)
205. Gargoyles #2 (6,900)
189. Gargoyles #3 (6,504)
227. Gargoyles #4 (5.775)
236. Gargoyles #5 (5,737)
236. Gargoyles #6 (5,433)
* 244. Gargoyles: Bad Guys #1 (4,973)
236. Gargoyles #7 (5,457)
233. Gargoyles #8 (5,288)
* 273. Gargoyles: Bad Guys #2 (4,211)
* 282. Gargoyles: Bad Guys #3 (3,657)
* 260. Gargoyles: Bad Guys #4 (3,657)

TPB:
75. Clan-Building, Vol 1 (1,454)

No dead cat bounce, but it stopped falling at least. It would be nice to think we "hit bottom" and that it would never go any lower even if the comic had continued but that may be an unsafe assumption. I guess we'll find out when the TPBs are released.
Ed
posted @ Thu, Sep 25, 2008 4:37:15 pm EDT from 213.187.38.226

Adam> Well, 2098 is much easier... although as it turns out I've now calculated both. Gargoyle beasts have 15 in 2098, 36 in 2198 (plus 8 eggs that will be captured by Space Spawn).

Gargoyles (and here I am assuming that the original 4 pendant holders will be dead) have 54 in 2098, and exactly 100 in 2198, plus 15 eggs to be captured by Space Spawn. This assumes, as ever, an even split of gender and cross-generational relationships where necesary.

Does anyone agree/disagree with those calculations?
Supermorff
posted @ Thu, Sep 25, 2008 4:29:48 pm EDT from 86.140.65.158

Supermorff- i did mean 2098. I used that time because it would be the last rookery for the members that hatched in 1998.
Adam - [carl006_1999 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Thu, Sep 25, 2008 4:24:27 pm EDT from 76.113.176.63

Wait, Adam, did you mean 2098 or 2198?

I've worked through the beast populations again. Like UncleDeadly, I've ignored incest completely. For 2098, the maximum number of beasts that those original four eggs can produce is 15, 4 of which will hatch in 2098.

For 2198, I think the maximum number is actually 44, which is higher than I expected. 8 of those will hatch in 2198. There are 4 in the "first" generation (who would be 200 years old by this point), none in the "second" and 2 in the "third" (who would be 160). Some of these may have succumbed to old age, but in any case this is a maximum upper limit assuming no new blood from outside (I've already assumed several cross-generational relationships, which I know are rare).

I still haven't worked out for the gargoyles themselves.
Supermorff
posted @ Thu, Sep 25, 2008 4:05:43 pm EDT from 86.140.65.158

Adam >> Ok, here's my stab at it. Let's assume a) lifespans are still the same and that despite being biologically younger than Old Pog, the 1998 generation is basically dead (they'd all be 100 which seems Gargoyle possible, but Gargoyle rare), b) that Gargoyle beasts can breed with cousins with little to no problems with inbreeding (like canines), c) Genders are balanced for optimal pairings and each pair successfully has three hatchlings (four with beasts).

Then in 2197, Id estimate:
Gargoyles: 92 to 94 Gargoyles
(98-20, 18-2, 38-1, 58-10, 78-11, 98-11, 118-6, 138-10, 158-15 or 16, 178-13 or 14).
Gargoyle Beasts: 22/23 (lots of inbreeding!)

Eggs: 13 Gargoyle, 6 Beasts with lots of inbreeding.
UncleDeadly
posted @ Thu, Sep 25, 2008 3:36:26 pm EDT from 128.114.181.128

Actually, that has to be wrong, because eggs get laid in even decades. Back to the drawing board.
Supermorff
posted @ Thu, Sep 25, 2008 3:30:21 pm EDT from 86.140.65.158

Adam, that is a horrible question. I tried to focus just on the beasts to start. If my maths is correct, and assuming an optimal split between genders and no outside influence (like premature death) then there will be 4 beasts beyond breeding age, 7 of breeding age and 4 that have not yet reached breeding age. So, in 2098, there will be a total of 15 gargoyle beasts, and three beast eggs will be laid in that year.

The way I worked it out makes it too hard to do gargoyles in the same way, so I'll get back to you.
Supermorff
posted @ Thu, Sep 25, 2008 3:27:30 pm EDT from 86.140.65.158

Not to change the subject to much, but I have a "trivia" challenge for the group here. In the Mayan clan, there are 4 members in the clan and somewhere between 20-40 eggs in the rookery. Lets say that there are 24 eggs, with 20 gargoyles and 4 beasts. The challenge is, how large will the clan be at most in 2098?
Adam - [carl006_1999 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Thu, Sep 25, 2008 2:47:08 pm EDT from 76.113.176.63

Kth > Thanks for the website. Thats a great little find. So many gargoyles! ^_^ And now I see the beaked female you were talking about. Weird, I dont remember ever seeing her in the episode. But thanks for pointing her out.
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Thu, Sep 25, 2008 2:25:08 pm EDT from 209.243.38.5

Sorry for the double post, but i meant to add:

Ishimura Clan> Aside from black hair being common (though it's not the exclusive hair color of clan as "Youchi" appears to have white hair, either from birth or due to age), the one possible common theme I've noticed among several members of the Ishimura Clan is a greater occurrence of extra spikes and protrusions and greater vraiance in the number of digits on the wing limbs. I see wings with as few as wo digits and as many as seven. "Riko" has an extra set of spikes near her knees and "Chikomi-No-Usa" has multiple arm spikes and spikes just above his feet. Humanoid faces still seem to be the most common. It could be that these features are just more common that we know and we notice them here because we're seeing more of this particular clan, but who knows?
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Thu, Sep 25, 2008 1:33:45 pm EDT from 146.115.115.33

Brook> OK, I think I see what you're getting at now. Because Brooklyn's romantic pursuit have been based on looks so far, you're worried that Katana would end up being unattractive so that Brooklyn and the rest of us can all learn a neat little lesson about not putting looks first. So it's more that you're hoping Brooklyn's story will avoid the cliche of the shallow guy who end up with a girl who he attracted to solely on her inner qualities. I can understand that. I'm guessing you have nothing to worry about. I don't really think Brooklyn is obsessed with looks any more than any of us would be for wanting to find a significant other of our own species. His only step outside of that was Maggie and I think that was more an act of desperation that anything. With Katana, I could imagine that Brooklyn might be so put off by his initial dislike of her personality that he completely overlooks her physical appearance and only realizes after he's come to like her that she's also very attractive.

Sorry if I was jumping to conclusions about what you were thinking. I don't want to see Brooklyn's story become cliched and didactic either, but I kind of doubt it's going to.

Matt> I think it's a combination of the two things. He may not be consciously thinking that each gargoyle or gargoyle-like female he meets may be his only shot at romance, but I think it's always kind of in the back of his mind. His logical half knows that there are other female gargoyles out there (once the world tour ends and Angela outright tells him about her sisters on Avalon), but he also knows his chances of ever actually meeting any of them are slim and if they don't all have mates already, most of them probably will very soon. Part of it likely is his desire to have a mate sooner rather than later, but I think both lines of thinking come from the same basic idea: his time to find a mate is running short, his prospects are limited, and his body says "MATE NOW." Considering that the London Clan forcibly isolates mated pairs from one another during the female's final heat to enforce population control, we can guess that hormones do a number on gargoyles and it may be a tribute to Brooklyn's self control that he hasn't gone completely insane by now.

Think about it this way: if Goliath, Elisa, and Bronx has returned to Manhattan with not just Angela, but two or more of her rookery sisters as well, how do you think Brooklyn would react? He might not be any less eager to find a mate, but I think he would be a little less desperate and quick to attach to one of them, since the chances are now much better that at least one of the local girls will go for him.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Thu, Sep 25, 2008 1:20:18 pm EDT from 146.115.115.33

Sorry, someone beet me to the punch.
Adam - [carl006_1999 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Thu, Sep 25, 2008 11:43:35 am EDT from 76.113.176.63

Here are some more shots of the Ishimura clan: http://lynativerse.artchicks.org/Screencaps/Gi_Clan.htm
Adam - [carl006_1999 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Thu, Sep 25, 2008 11:43:00 am EDT from 76.113.176.63

No problem. ^..^
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth-dragon at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Thu, Sep 25, 2008 11:20:33 am EDT from 216.57.96.1

Kth> Thanks for linking to the screenshots. It's been a while since I've seen "Bushido," and I'd forgotten what a lot of them looked like. Nice to be re-familiarized with the design aesthetic of the Ishimura clan.
Asatira
posted @ Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:48:20 am EDT from 68.190.20.172

Litwolf> No, the beaked female was in a background shot, and was a different color. That's not her. She's here, second row, far right:

http://lynativerse.artchicks.org/Screencaps/Gi_Clan.htm
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth-dragon at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:31:39 am EDT from 216.57.96.1

Oh wait, is this the beaked gargoyle you meant?

http://www.gargoyles-fans.de/downloads/screenshots/view.php?id=53/2_53_036.jpg&x=320&y=240

Is that a female? I could never tell. I always thought it was a male. Well, if this is a descedent of Katana's parents, maybe Katana will be green. But, then again, a lot of time has passed between Katana's time and the present. A lot of mating has occured. Katana's parents' coloring might be long gone.
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:12:57 am EDT from 209.243.38.5

"Heh, the Japanese gargoyle with yellow skin. Perhaps not the best idea. ;)" Greg B >
We must have different ideas of yellow cuz I think a soft Easter yellow might be look pretty ^_^

I find it interesting that the Ishimura clan is the only one where we're shown a beaked female, and that Brooklyn will find a mate among Japanese gargoyles. It would be fun if she were a descendant, but since Nashville and Tachi will be living in the present, there's not really much chance of that." Kth >
Wait, there's a beaked female in Ishimura? Ill have to rewatch Bushido when I get some free time. But its still possible this female is distantly related to Katana. Perhaps Katana had beaked parents and the modern day beaked female is the descendant of one of Katana's biological siblings.

Man I wish Greg W would give us a hint as to the TimeDancer charaacters' designs! I know that as soon as I get the Clan Building Vol 2 book, Im gonna flip to the back and get a good look at Brooklyn's family. Another character Im itching to see is Fu-dog. I love gargoyle beasts and there are far too few of them!
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:06:56 am EDT from 209.243.38.5

Don't forget that Brooklyn will be travelling to the past during Feudal Japan. Who knows what kind of clans lived back then and have since died out?
VoLpE de FuEgO - [sailorx78 at hotmail dot com]
too tired to type one T_T
posted @ Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:00:58 am EDT from 75.74.224.252

I find it interesting that the Ishimura clan is the only one where we're shown a beaked female, and that Brooklyn will find a mate among Japanese gargoyles. It would be fun if she were a descendant, but since Nashville and Tachi will be living in the present, there's not really much chance of that.
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth-dragon at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:28:51 am EDT from 216.57.96.1

Just rewatching BUSHIDO. I now definetely go with humanoid looks. :)

I forgot how much I likd this EP. After NEW OLYMPIANS and SENTINEL, finally a more "down to earth" EP. And that park is hillarious!!
Brook
posted @ Thu, Sep 25, 2008 8:47:30 am EDT from 84.191.243.175

I totally agree with Matt.

@ Demonskrye: Sure, sure - the thing is just, with Brooklyns history, it would be too easy to apply a more morale/clichee story.

I'm neither the inner beauty nor the hottie perspective kinda guy. What mattrs is that it is the right person, that meets your standards. Yet, if somebody is in a relationship with another person just considering her looks, I'm human enough to understand the desire of beauty.

I think Greg has made Katana to be "the perfect mate" for Brooklyn - complicated personality included.I don't think this has to do with looks OR inner beauty, but with the whole, ergh, "package" of her. :D I hope this doesn't sound sexist in any way - if so, really not intended. package as in "the whole Gargoyle being, looks and personality and smell and voice and etc."
And I see what xou mean by these standarts - yet I somehow - from what we've seen of the Ishimuran clan and what we've seen with the regulars on the show, I'm pretty sure we see a humanoid, very femlae in looks and "masculine" in the head Gargoyle.
But yeah, Greg might do something else... but I'm 80% sure it'll turn out this way.
Brook
posted @ Thu, Sep 25, 2008 8:39:40 am EDT from 84.191.243.175

I think Brooklyn's crushes have less to do with the fact that there are limited mates available to him and have more to do with the fact that he is horny and desperate for love. I'm sure the apparent lack of available females is frustrating, but mostly I just see Brooklyn as feeling (like many of his fans) that he deserves to be with a female NOW. The way I see it, Brook isn't looking at Maggie and Angela and Delilah and thinking "I need to be with them because they are the only females available and I need a mate." I think he is looking at them and thinking "They seem to be available females and I want a mate." He isn't thinking with his brain, he is thinking with his... you know.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Many a small thing has been made large by the right kind of advertising." -Mark Twain, 'A Connecticult Yankee in King Arthur's Court'
posted @ Thu, Sep 25, 2008 8:06:12 am EDT from 70.237.196.83

Supermorff> I think Brooklyn may well be very flirty with a lot of the female gargoyles he meets in feudal Japan (or possibly some of his other stops), but I think the single mindedness and near desperation with which he pursued first Maggie and then Angela (and Delilah to a much lesser degree) will subside a bit. He saw each of them in turn as potentially being his only shot at love. So once he's in a location where there are a lot of female gargoyles around, I think he's going to be a little calmer because, while he still would very much like to find a mate, his chances of that happening will be a lot better.

Plus, we don't know what kind of experiences Brooklyn may have before he arrives in feudal Japan that may shape his behavior around female gargoyles. We know he at least has his initial adventure in Scotland, gain Fu-Dog as a traveling companion, and spend time in 2198 (where there are presumably a lot of female gargoyles) before meeting Katana, so who knows how these and other adventures could affect him?

Brook> You are entitled to your opinion, of course, but I really don't follow your thinking. You seem to be implying that unless Katana is drop dead gorgeous, her relationship with Brooklyn will automatically be some kind of moral story about how only inner beauty matters. As several other people have pointed out, we have no idea what gargoyle standards of beauty are. Contrary to what you said, we have no indication that Brooklyn has any physical standards beyond "bipedal with wings." Except for Demona, who he likely avoided first because he saw her as already mated with Goliath and later because she betrayed his trust, Brooklyn has never failed to pursue any female who even looked like a gargoyle. You say you're just tired of the theme of people going for someone who may not be as attractive for their inner qualities. I don't know what you've been reading or watching that makes you feel that way, but again, if Katana is not the most beautiful gargoyle in her clan, it doesn't necessarily mean that a moral is being forced down your throat or that Brooklyn is somehow selling himself short. Why should Katana have to meet any standard of beauty? If she does turn out to be very attractive, should I take the story to be implying that inner qualities are OK and all, but you shouldn't settle for anything less than a hottie?

Gargoyles mate for life. I don't doubt that physical attraction plays a role in who they choose to mate, but looks don't last. I don't think anyone would disagree that Demona is a rather attractive gargoyle, but as she aged during the flashbacks in "City of Stone," her age was certainly showing. If couples intended to stay together for their entire lives, they would have to weigh personality more heavily than appearance when selecting a mate.

Katana's Coloration> I really could speculate much, but I'm guessing she's not going to be red or pink skinned. It's too close to Brooklyn's coloration, and the series has never color-matched its couples. She will probably have black hair, but that's about all I can reasonably guess at this point.

Lunette> I expect she will be a tawny colored unicorn, as she'd otherwise have little to no physical traits inherited from Leo. Greg W, If you're reading this, I don't think anyone was actually confused about Lunette's parentage, but we needed you to confirm it to add the fact to GargWiki.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Thu, Sep 25, 2008 7:52:05 am EDT from 146.115.115.33

Rita Micozzi did some great drawings (once upon a time) of a white-skinned Katana. They're posted on deviantART under the name ritam. They were some of the first fan-made pictures I ever saw of Katana, so it's still kinda how I imagine her.
Supermorff
posted @ Thu, Sep 25, 2008 7:19:24 am EDT from 86.140.65.158

Katana: I'd go with Snow White.
Brook
posted @ Thu, Sep 25, 2008 6:29:20 am EDT from 84.191.243.175

Hey guys! Just thought I'd let you all know that I've uploaded a new Gargoyles video on Youtube! Just finished it actually, and it's almost 4am over here @_@ I really like the topics that are circling around here @ the moment and will give my input when I wake up. Btw, has anyone heard any news on those Disney anniversary figures that are coming out, the collection that may feature a character from Gargoyles (hopefully)?

If you wanna check out the Thailog video I did, it's here @ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zqTNqM6llo

Catch ya later!
VoLpE de FuEgO - [sailorx78 at hotmail dot com]
too tired to type one T_T
posted @ Thu, Sep 25, 2008 3:33:21 am EDT from 75.74.224.252

Heh, the Japanese gargoyle with yellow skin. Perhaps not the best idea. ;)
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Oh Lord, please help our athletes bring home the gold. Enough gold so we can melt it down and buy back our economy from the Chinese."
posted @ Thu, Sep 25, 2008 1:06:33 am EDT from 75.56.245.4

True but I was thinking more of gargoyles with black or white skin rather than black or white fur or feathers.

Now that I think about it, Sora was a light purple. Katana really needs a color thats all her own, that hasnt been used on any garg yet. Thats why black or white would be cool. Or maybe yellow? Has yellow been used for a garg's skin color? What other colors havnt been used for a gargoyle's skin that Katana could use?
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Thu, Sep 25, 2008 12:39:05 am EDT from 209.243.38.5

I actually just checked the episode with Raven (Heritage) to refresh my memory, and the gargoyle bear that Raven created from the totem is completely black. And the totem wolf gargoyle is completely white. Both in the same episode! :-P

I'm still interested to see if an all black gargoyle would work as well in the comics as it does in the show.
Ricky
posted @ Wed, Sep 24, 2008 11:33:20 pm EDT from 68.161.21.176

Matt> I had totally forgotten about Raven, but if I remember correctly, he's not completely black. I think only his wings and his top half, from around his chest up is black, I think. He's mostly a lighter shade of gray.

And that's great news about Lunette. I guess I expected her to be white because she, like Una, resembles a unicorn, and I'm so used to seeing unicorns only in white. But I really hope she has Leo's coloring, I think that would look so great! I get more and more excited for #9 every day. :D
Ricky
posted @ Wed, Sep 24, 2008 11:29:15 pm EDT from 68.161.21.176

Ricky> I hope (and suspect) that Lunette has Leo's coloring. If she doesn't, she is all but a clone of Una and thats no fun. Plus, I recall that Greg has said that gargoyles often look like the same sex parent with the opposite sex parent's coloring (ex. Angela), this doesn't always seem to be the case though, so we'll see.

And Raven in his gargoyle-form was black.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Many a small thing has been made large by the right kind of advertising." -Mark Twain, 'A Connecticult Yankee in King Arthur's Court'
posted @ Wed, Sep 24, 2008 11:15:05 pm EDT from 70.237.202.24

Litwolf> Una was white. And now Amp is white, and I'm assuming that Lunette is going to be white (but personally I'd love it if she had Leo's coloring).

I'm not so sure if we'll ever see a black gargoyle. I tend to think it might be a little odd in terms of the drawings. As far as I can remember the closest we have to black is Talon, and he's more of a gray really. I think that in the drawings, especially since these are comics, the characters need to stand out a little more than in animation, where the characters move. I feel like the character needs to have that visible black outline.

But that could just be me. Actually, the more I think about it, the more interested I am in seeing a black gargoyle, if only to see how it plays out visually on the page.
Ricky
posted @ Wed, Sep 24, 2008 11:03:09 pm EDT from 68.161.21.176

I thought the "Cheers" reference was that B&K were going to have a very snappy, sarcastic, busting on each other a lot-type relationship. Greg also likened it to Beatrice and Benedick.
Meg
posted @ Wed, Sep 24, 2008 9:30:53 pm EDT from 70.128.224.78

Incisivis > Not nessecarily. The majoritiy of the Manhattan Clan (heck the majority of the Clans of the world!) does not have a beak so maybe Greg would like to bring some unique features to the Clan, like spreading the beak gene around. As someone pointed out, we havnt seen a beaked female yet, maybe Katana will have a beak. Honestly, I think it might be sweet to see Brooklyn with a similar looking female. Now, as you might say, she might have more human features but Greg hasnt commented on how Katana will look yet (not even her coloring!). He has said he doesnt want to tie up the artists. Now that the comic is finally being worked on, Im sure he's thinking more about it.

Hey, what color do you guys think Katana might be? I think, whatever the color, she'll be light in shade. Im thinking maybe light purple? Though think about if she was black! She'd certainly stand out from Brooklyn. We've never seen a black gargoyle, or a white one for that matter. Hmm... Your thoughts on color please!
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Wed, Sep 24, 2008 9:24:15 pm EDT from 192.146.226.148

Katana:

You guys are forgetting that Gargoyles likely wouldn't consider the less-humanoid members of their species unnatractive as humans might. For them, having tusks or a beak would be the same as having a certain hair colour: there will be preferences among individuals, but nothing considered uniformly "ugly", because they are so common to the species. It's a mistake I think a lot of fans make, to assume they rely solely on human standards of beauty even for themselves.

Sadly, I think Katana will be a very humanoid-looking gargoyle. It'd be nice not to repeat Mailbu/Delilah, but I think it's going to happen.

About their relationship, normally I'd have a problem with *another* stormy courtship and "Aw, they love each ohter after all" in pop culture, but gargoyles (small g, the race) has a more idealized view of mating and dating, so throwing something more tempestuous into the midst might be refereshing in this context. Not to mention that part of me wants to see Brooklyn *work* for what he's been sulking about for so long. :P
Incisivis - [incisivis at hotmail dot com]
"No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream" -- Shirley Jackson
posted @ Wed, Sep 24, 2008 8:26:11 pm EDT from 216.36.154.204

Hey!! any1? k if you had a choice of choosing a pet which 1 would it be,
A.A smart monkey =)
B.a big python
C.a chinchilla
or D.A foxy momma
id choose ether A or C, i like monkeys but chinchillas are awesome!.
anyway does any1 have rock band2?, its awesome!
I can't believe they have eye of the tiger!
anyway,
if you had a choice of a subject witch 1 would it be?
science
social studies
math
or spelling
id choose spelling=Pi don't know why i asked those=P
Amy - [George at Starstream dot net]
Amy Burger
posted @ Wed, Sep 24, 2008 7:58:43 pm EDT from 66.238.68.249

Ah - enlightening: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iE1Z-IpAIg
Brook
posted @ Wed, Sep 24, 2008 7:12:46 pm EDT from 84.191.201.25

I'm not familliar with american TV - but yes, it is.
Brook
posted @ Wed, Sep 24, 2008 7:11:31 pm EDT from 84.191.201.25

Katanna and Brooklyn> didn't Greg say that it would be a Sam and Diane-esqe relationship? I believe that this is a cheers referance. Sam really loves Diane but feels he isn't worthy and Diane eventually realizes her feelings. mind you I haven't watched cheers in years.
Woods
"But them pussycats is quick" Mrs. Lovett
posted @ Wed, Sep 24, 2008 6:41:30 pm EDT from 192.101.250.250

Oops, sorry Demonskrye, didn't notice that I misspelled your name.
Spen
"Come along. You belong. Feel the fizz."
posted @ Wed, Sep 24, 2008 6:33:28 pm EDT from 66.43.205.110

Demonskyre : Happy birthday!
Spen
"Come along. You belong. Feel the fizz."
posted @ Wed, Sep 24, 2008 6:32:02 pm EDT from 66.43.205.110

I agree with Supermorf.

I also think Katana will hate him, and therefore he will hate her, calling each other arrogant, but allready being attracted to each other.

I dunno, I'm not a big fan of the ususal "Inner beauty" ending to storys... It just seems overdone to me... Might be because I witnessed something where it was the same as above (two people being attracted to each other, but thinking bad about them on first sight, and then falling in love on both levels)... but, I dunno, I never was that much a fan of the "inner beauty" idea for storys... Nothing against it existing, but it's become to drowned with morale "Oh, so he took her, cause she was beautiful inside, and not the bad mouthed cheerleader."... guess you get my point...

I also think that Greg will have something close to the Japanese style when it comes to those Gargs. Expect something lose to the Ishimura clan - nothing spectacular.
Brook
posted @ Wed, Sep 24, 2008 4:46:13 pm EDT from 84.191.201.25

Demonskrye> And, oh yeah, happy birthday.
Supermorff
posted @ Wed, Sep 24, 2008 4:24:10 pm EDT from 86.140.65.158

Demonskrye> That's pretty much how I see Brooklyn and Katana's initial romancing as well, but with one minor difference: He's in feudal Japan, he's surrounded by eligible females... I suspect he'll still be chasing every upright female creature with wings, at least to begin with. (That is, every upright female creature except Katana, who probably wouldn't put up with it.) Suddenly being the proverbial kid in a candy store isn't going to make him spontaneously show some restraint. But that's just my view on it.
Supermorff
posted @ Wed, Sep 24, 2008 4:22:47 pm EDT from 86.140.65.158

Brook> The "Hook Hand" idea was just a little creativity demon, not something I would really expect to see happen. And I didn't just mean Brooklyn inspiring myths and legends unknowingly. He could do any number of things that end up shaping history without him necessarily realizing it. Actions having consequences that you don't necessarily foresee or intend or ever find out about. Goliath certainly didn't intend to ultimately send Brooklyn on a 40 year journey when he tossed the Phoenix Gate into time and space without a mind to guide it, but without his actions, the whole "TimeDancer" storyline would have never happened.

As for Katana, I am sorry if this sounds harsh, but it seems to me that you are missing the point of the arc of Brooklyn's romantic life. Brooklyn's attempts at love up to this point have failed because he isn't looking at much beyond appearance. Maggie isn't even a real gargoyle, yet he pursued her because she looked enough like on to him. When Brooklyn finally does have a relationship that works, it will happen when he's in feudal era Japan, where there are probably lots of gargoyles around and he doesn't feel like every upright female creature with wings might be his only shot at love. From the little we do know of Brooklyn and Katana's relationship, it sounds like it's far from love at first sight. They start out with a rather stormy relationship which develops into love over time. So it's not just a matter of Brooklyn meet someone who's pretty and strong and perfect for him right off the bat. It's a matter of Brooklyn learning to look at qualities other than appearance and really love someone for every aspect of who she is.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:16:54 pm EDT from 146.115.115.33

@ Demonskrye: Happy Birthday.

I'm not that thrilled. Although I'd love to see some funny stuff, Brooklyn serving for an urban myth is kinda clichee... I dunno, it has been done before. I'm thrilled as to how Greg will introduce us to some innovations to the whole Timetraveling storyarc.

The hand protheses: Hurm... I dunno, the more I think about it, the less I can imagine him... ending up with something drastic.

But somehow, something tells me Greg will go with the Nolanesque depition of 2Face, smacking us in the face. We're all about "D'oh, what if he loses a horn or a wing?", but Greg will go BAM!!! And we'll all blush in shame.

Katana: Katana I think will look pretty asian. Brooklyns going for the hot chicks, and I guess he will do so there too. I think she'll top what we've seen (I REALLY don't want to get the whole "She looks like a **********(insert ugly animal here), BUT IT'S OK, for he loves her inner beauty." story again, done waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too often, and way too annoying by now.) I guess she'll be what is to him the perfect Gargirl. Beautiful, intelligent, and DAMN tough!!!!!!!! Looking forward for their arguments in Japanese!! :D "Excuse me a min... KATANA CHAN, GOME..." "IIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" XD
Brook
posted @ Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:37:22 pm EDT from 84.191.254.201

Todd> Partly I'm just very attracted to the idea that Brooklyn's timedancing may have effects that he isn't even aware of, whether humorous or profound. I could easily see him serving as the origin of some myth or legend without ever knowing that he did so.

Battle Beast> Sounds like it could be a follow-up to the "weird Macbeth," not that we know all that much about that.

Thanks for all the birthday well-wishes.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:26:56 pm EDT from 146.115.115.33

Happy birthday, Demonskyre!
Asatira
posted @ Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:13:07 pm EDT from 68.190.20.172

Brooklyn: Swashbuckler>

That made me think of Errol Flynn, and then Robin Hood... Brooklyn as Robin Hood, with Goliath as Little John, Broadway as the Fat Friar Tuck (In Both "Awakening" and "The Adventures of Robin Hood (1938)" Friar Tuck and Broadway beat people with a leg of meat.)

Xanatos as the evil Prince John,Demona as the Sherrifette of Nottingham, Elisa or Angela as Maid Marian...

A creativity demon?
Battle beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Wed, Sep 24, 2008 11:50:42 am EDT from 75.152.157.212

Happy Birthday, Demonskrye!

Brooklyn being the source of an urban legend: Well, Greg did say that with enough time and episodes, every myth and legend would be entering "Gargoyles".
Todd Jensen
posted @ Wed, Sep 24, 2008 10:09:34 am EDT from 198.209.226.130

Algernon> I realize you're kind of kidding about the hook hand thing, but the more I think about it, the more it sort of makes sense. Brooklyn did dress as a pirate for his first Halloween. He has a sort of "swashbuckler" personality. So maybe he does lose a hand to tie into that aspect of his character. I'm not sure that he'd literally replace it with a hook; maybe putting in some sort of weapon in its place would serve the same purpose. Though if he did end up with a hook, I could see an timedancing episode where Brooklyn ends up in the US in late 20th century and inadvertently scare a couple of teenagers making out in a car, thus serving as the source for the legend of "Hook Hand."
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Wed, Sep 24, 2008 9:08:06 am EDT from 146.115.115.33

Demonskrye> Or perhaps Brooklyn gets a hook for a hand instead, makeing him a sort of pirate to Katana's ninja. Opposites attract after all.

P.S. And happy birthday you crazy middle-aged teenager.
Algernon
posted @ Wed, Sep 24, 2008 8:56:25 am EDT from 149.157.1.180

Matt> Well the supposedly humorous age joke shirts I've seen read "In dog years, I'm dead," because dogs age at a faster rate than humans do. So if you translate your chronological age into "dog years," you're older because you would be further along biologically. So I would think that by that same logic, we're all younger by half in "gargoyle years."

But yes, to be a gargoyle and be equally biologically mature to my current human state, I would have to be sixty.

The cookie table has been stocked with cake and those chocolate cookies with peanut butter filling I got at the farmers market yesterday.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Wed, Sep 24, 2008 8:54:59 am EDT from 146.115.115.33

Demonskrye> Happy birthday! ^..^
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth-dragon at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Wed, Sep 24, 2008 8:47:09 am EDT from 216.57.96.1

Demonskyre> Happy Birthday!

Though, unless I'm mistaken, you are 60 in "gargoyle years". A thrity year old human is equivalent to a sisty year old gargoyle... Or maybe you just turned 7 and a half, but I doubt it.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Many a small thing has been made large by the right kind of advertising." -Mark Twain, 'A Connecticult Yankee in King Arthur's Court'
posted @ Wed, Sep 24, 2008 8:28:51 am EDT from 70.237.202.24

Demonskrye> Happy birthday. :)
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Wed, Sep 24, 2008 8:25:06 am EDT from 75.60.223.252

Brooklyn's Injury> Thinking about it some more, the loss of a limb does seem like a possibility. Since we know that Brooklyn spends some time in the future and even now, cyborgs are a technological possibility in the GU, we can figure that Brooklyn could lose a limb without the consequences being quite as dire as they would if he had lost a limb back in 10th century Scotland. I don't think his tail is really likely to get the ax (so to speak). It feels almost jokey to me, since the importance of a tail to a gargoyle has never been established and taking up the limited space of the comic to discuss what tails do for gargoyles would come off as pretty forced. So my guesses at this point are that he loses part or all of an arm or leg, loses a horn, or gets a prominent scar on his face. Unless they're very large and noticeable, scars on the body don't seem to have as much impact as those on the head, probably because the head is so associated with communication and expression. Plus, scars on your head are much tougher to conceal.

Also, it's my birthday today. I'm 15 in gargoyle years.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Wed, Sep 24, 2008 7:40:13 am EDT from 146.115.115.33

Phoenician - Oh. Thanks.

That only leaves one last thing--could that big logo be included as one of the images to be hidden?
Rebel
posted @ Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:08:12 am EDT from 76.165.37.214

Rebel -- you don't see a "Hide Images" button below the Archive Index?
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:05:26 am EDT from 157.242.213.245

Gorebash, or whoever-- I like the new main page of s8.org, but, after you click "Greg Sent Me" on the main page, would it be possible for it to redirect somewhere where you could choose the "text only comment room"? I used to be able to do that, but now I can't seem to find it any more...I'm sure there's a specific link I could use, but I use a different computer *almost* every time I visit this place, so I wouldn't be able to have it saved in my history and I probably wouldn't remember the link from visit to visit. I visit this place in public computer labs a lot, and I would love to be able to do so without worrying about people looking over my shoulder and discovering how insanely nerdy I am.

Incidentally, for the text only comment room, would it also be possible to make it even MORE discrete...to where someone from a few feet away wouldn't even be able to tell what you were looking at? Like, get rid of that huge Gargoyles logo at the top left? Keep in mind, I'm only suggesting this for the text only comment room, not the regular one. There are times when I'd like to go "incognito".

If any of this is possible, I'd be really grateful.
Rebel
posted @ Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:46:01 pm EDT from 76.165.37.214

Litwolf> Keep in mind that FT was Puck messing with Goliath's head. That in mind, I'd guess the cybernetic and metal parts would turn to stone.

Amy> Calm down. Unfortunately, it looks like "Hyper Force Go" was not picked up, and it's not going to be picked up again. And Greg was just a writer, so he has no say.
Asatira
posted @ Tue, Sep 23, 2008 10:05:37 pm EDT from 68.190.20.172

I honestly don't think it's very likely that Brooklyn will have an injury as minor as a broken horn or an amputated tail tip. I'm sorry, but the impression that I've gotten is that Brooklyn's injury is going to be a major, disconcerting injury. A broken horn is not disconcerting (well...it might be for the gargoyles, but it wouldn't be for most readers...I wouldn't find it particularly disturbing at all, just like I don't find the scar on Hudson's eye disturbing).

I think the injury will be something HUGE. I think it will be something that will make the rest of his clan FREAK OUT (and then deliberately try really hard to act like they're NOT freaked out, for the sake of trying to prevent awkwardness, which will ultimately create more awkwardness). A scar or a broken horn isn't going to freak anybody out. And honestly, something as minor as a missing eye isn't going to be that freaky either (TWO missing eyes might do it...but for reasons that others have stated, I doubt that Brooklyn's injury will be an eye injury).

I'm betting he's going to lose nearly his entire tail, or a wing or two, or an arm or a leg, or a big chunk of his face. And, while I used to think that it would be cool if it was replaced cybernetically, now I'm thinking that maybe it would be better if it wasn't...maybe just a fairly "primitive" prosthesis, or none at all. I don't think a missing wing or two is outside the range of possibility. Sure, he wouldn't be able to fly anymore, but Bronx and Elisa could never fly and they are still capable members of the clan. Besides, he could always have Katana lug him around, like how the clan members are always carrying around Bronx and Elisa. If Brooklyn's injury was something as minor as a broken horn or a huge scar, I doubt Greg would have even bothered to mention it. It wouldn't be worth including. I think it needs to be something that is disturbing for everyone else and life-changing for Brooklyn.

Also, I REALLY like the idea of him losing his tail (or wing, or leg, whatever) because Katana (or, maybe later in his timedancing adventures, Nashville) had to cut it off to save the rest of him. That is a delightfully horrifying idea, and would probably disturb the hell out of everybody.

Don't get me wrong...I really do LIKE Brooklyn. But I like him as a character, and I enjoy it when bad things happen to characters. It makes for good stories.

In regards to Katana's appearance, do you guys think that she will look more like the "standard" female gargoyles that we've seen so far, or do you think that Greg will use her as a vehicle to introduce more variety into the ways that female gargoyles can look (or maybe even the way gargoyles in general can look)? I'm leaning towards the latter. Something that I've been thinking about is that, now that the show is no longer a cartoon, there is no need to keep new character designs simple because they won't have to be animated. For example, one of the original character designs for Lex had him with two sets of arms with webbing between them for wings...but that was ultimately nixed in favor of Lex's current design, because the former one would have been too difficult to animate. So now that Gargoyles is in comic form, Greg and the artists can afford to give new gargoyle characters much more complicated designs because they'll never be animated.
Rebel
posted @ Tue, Sep 23, 2008 10:02:19 pm EDT from 76.165.37.214

uh ok then. i seen that show a couple of times but never really got into it. i wonder what bronx and budicca's childern would look like???
Becky - [beckybug1991 at aol dot com]
Becky :)
posted @ Tue, Sep 23, 2008 9:56:39 pm EDT from 71.7.116.47

HI! um i'm just wandering.....
WHEN THE FUCK WILL THERE BE ANOTHER EPISODE OF SUPER ROBOT MONKEY TEAM HYPER FORCE GO!!!!!!
Ive been waiting about 2 years 4 another 1 2 come out!!!!!!!
IT ONLY Takes A DANG WEEK 4 CRIEING OUT LOUD!!!!!!!
MY PATIENCE has gone off the deep end!!
Ive been watching reruns!
Its mad i tell ya!
Ive seen every episode if not twice or more!
IF i have 2 wait another year im going 2 blow up!!
Now please please please make another episode 4 crieing out loud!
END!
Amy - [George at Starstream dot net]
Amy Burger
posted @ Tue, Sep 23, 2008 9:19:05 pm EDT from 66.238.68.249

Kth and Algeron > You make very good points. I guess a gargoyle with any mecha bits would take it to stone sleep with them (I wonder if FT Lex still has stone sleep?). Brook would probably sleep with his mecha hand as well. Do you like mecha claw theory? Anyone?
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Tue, Sep 23, 2008 7:35:04 pm EDT from 192.146.226.148

Brook: Well, I can redo the avatars in DVD quality, but I need Gorebash's permission first. Gorebash, how about it?
D. Taina
"The story is told -- though who can say if it be true..." -Shari
posted @ Tue, Sep 23, 2008 6:59:38 pm EDT from 74.213.114.48

Johnny made Greg put it out through countless neverending requests.
Brook
posted @ Tue, Sep 23, 2008 6:40:15 pm EDT from 84.191.190.19

Brook: I didn't know we had a DVD of the Avatars. When was it released?
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Do you wanna know why I use a knife? Guns are too quick. You can't savor all the... little... emotions. In... you see, in their last moments, people show you who they really are. So in a way, I know your friends better than you ever did. Would you like to know which of them were cowards?" -The Joker
posted @ Tue, Sep 23, 2008 6:34:13 pm EDT from 24.125.223.13

EXACTLY!!

WE GOT TACOS ON THE MOON, BUT NO JOGGER AVATAR!!!!!

I mean *GOSH*!!!! >.<
Brook
posted @ Tue, Sep 23, 2008 5:18:16 pm EDT from 84.191.190.19

And while we're at it, where's the Erik and Gunther icons? I mean, come on!

And where's Random Viking #5, for that matter? Or Number Six? Or the frickin' jogger? And why can we not get Puck in a neutral mood? We can put Mexicans on the moon, for God's sake! ( ;
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Do you wanna know why I use a knife? Guns are too quick. You can't savor all the... little... emotions. In... you see, in their last moments, people show you who they really are. So in a way, I know your friends better than you ever did. Would you like to know which of them were cowards?" -The Joker
posted @ Tue, Sep 23, 2008 5:00:02 pm EDT from 24.125.223.13

Whoever handles this CR - Gore or whoever - PLEASE, we've got a DVD out, PLEASE upgrade the Avatars!! :(

We've got LEx and Cyber Lex, but only FT Brooklyn, and no normal one!!! :(

We live in the age of ebay selling 100 items per second worldwide - AND WE'VE ONLY GOT ONE AVATAR FOR BROOKLYN?? HOW F***ED UP IS THIS???? XD
Brook
posted @ Tue, Sep 23, 2008 4:47:31 pm EDT from 84.191.190.19

Brook> There is a GargWiki article on the Spell of Humility. It's at http://gargoyles.dracandros.com/Spell_of_Humility

Does anyone know if I can see a gallery of the avatar pictures before I pick one to use? Or do I have to just switch avatars until I find one I like?
Supermorff
posted @ Tue, Sep 23, 2008 4:44:36 pm EDT from 86.168.25.37

Could somebody please hook me up with a GargWiki article on the spell of humility?? I missed that out...

Anyways - yeah, FT "hints" at a hand unjury (well, not really, but the bandage is there).

I still think Broadway being blind relies more on the fact that he doesn't "see" the evil in a person, and I guess he's up to some shit... he get's the girl, and luck's pretty much over there, I guess. Dunny why... but I cannot see him being the only one not going through an iniciation... Lex having his "trip", Brooklyns Timedancing... they all have to go through a "change" of some sort, a kind of a "rite", destiny testing them...

So yeah, whatcha guys think is Brooks most likely injury??
If we'd only had a message board, I could open a poll. ;D
Brook
posted @ Tue, Sep 23, 2008 4:39:26 pm EDT from 84.191.190.19

Litwolf> The bits of Coldstone that look like flesh are actually nothing more than stone given the ability to move as flesh does. Thus, he can't undergo stone sleep because a) there aren't any biological parts that aren't stone already and b) he isn't a biologically living thing, so he does not have biological functions. He can't eat, breathe, eliminate, sleep, etc.

I think that regardless of how big a percentage of a gargoyle's body is mechanical, whatever's left that's biological will become stone during the day. It's a question of cell behavior, and gargoyle cells are programmed for stone sleep; body modification would not change that. Whether the mechanical bits will become stone would most likely fall under the rules of the Humility Spell, as Algernon has suggested. They'll become stone also if the gargoyle in question identifies the mechanical bits as part of him/her self. Whatever a gargoyle does not think of as "mine" will stay mech; bits that are "mine" will become stone.
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth-dragon at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Tue, Sep 23, 2008 1:44:43 pm EDT from 216.57.96.1

Litwolf> Keep in mind that Coldstone is essentialy a mystically reanimated corpse with some Steel Clan spare parts welded on to him. That he doesn't undergo stone sleep has more to do with the fact that he's not technically alive in the first place.

I would imagine for a live gargoyle, any cybernetic parts would be covered under the Spell of Humility. Of course, since the spell is pretty dependant on what a given garg percives as part of his ensemble that might vary.
Algernon
posted @ Tue, Sep 23, 2008 12:49:30 pm EDT from 149.157.1.180

Wow, Ive been out of the loop for a whole week. Darn classes keeping me weighed down with work. But now I can finally comment!

About all the speculation of Brooklyn's injury, there's a lot he could be injured with. Here are my ideas:

1) Not an eye injury. For the exact reason Brook thinks Brooklyn will have one. There have been so many eye wounds that one for this gargoyle would not be surprising. It's too obvious. Besides, if any gargoyle is likely to get his eyes wounded, its Broadway (because of FT).

2) Beak. I dont know how you could injure that thing. And its too much his signature look. It would be like taking away Lex's webbed wings.

3) Tail/wing. Possible. Maybe missing his tail tip would be a good injury. I dont know how you could injure his wings without taking away his ability to glide, which he has to have. I dont think he could have survived his trip without the ability to glide.

4) Horn. Very likly. No gargoyle (in my memory) has been missing his horn. Its a noticible injury too.

However, I think the answer is 5) Hand/claw.

Remember that he spends so time in the future, against the Space-Spawn. That time period is gonna have mind-blowing technology. Im thinking that maybe he'll somehow lose one of his hands in battle and theyll give him a metal one. Not a whole arm like Coldstone has, with a laser canon; simply a silver metal hand with claws. Obviously one stronger than his normal gargoyle hand but no cool gadets or anything like that.

Now, I know that might be stepping into Coldstone and Lex's territory (mecha body parts) but I think it makes sense. Imagine, he steps out of the Pheonix gate, back on the castle, fourty years older. The first thing he'll want to do is the wrist-holding shake all gargoyles do. Thats when his mecha claw becomes obvious and the Clan knows that something really weird has happened.

So, what do you think? I think a mecha claw/hand would be a cool look for Brook.

Now, this raises another question (and frustrates me that the ask a question section is closed). If you were to slowly replace parts of the gargoyle's body with mechanical bits, how far would you have to go until they are no longer affected by stone sleep? Coldstone is more machine than gargyole now. But if a gargoyle lost its wings or tail and they were replaced with machines. Would they still sleep? My theory about Brooklyn with a mecha hand, I dont think a mecha hand would be enough to replace with stone sleep. Seriously, when does a gargoyle, or even human for that matter, stop being flesh and blood and becomes machine?
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Tue, Sep 23, 2008 12:19:29 pm EDT from 192.146.226.148

Brook> Well, it's 40 years for him... he'd still need the requisite amount of sleep just like anybody who's living a normal 40 years. I suppose it would depend on how long he's stuck in any particular time/place. Part of the issue is the jet lag effect: Brooklyn's body would demand sleep at some point, and he may end up being stone at night. The longer he's in a particular point in the time stream, the more his body will adjust to the time zone he's currently in. I think in the current comic story arc, Lex and Hudson were able to adjust to London time in less than 10 days, but I don't believe an exact acclimation period was given.

Now, other magical artifacts have compensated for things (energy for the named Guatemalan gargoyles to stay awake during they day, etc), but I don't think the Phoenix Gate would be able to cover that. Its intended purpose is transport, not support of the body it's transporting.
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth-dragon at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Tue, Sep 23, 2008 8:57:05 am EDT from 216.57.96.1

Not too familliar with the english names of canines. ;)

Yeah, the stone sleep issue is quite interresting... probably he doesn't go into stone sleep that often during his Timedancing...?
Brook
posted @ Tue, Sep 23, 2008 7:49:28 am EDT from 84.191.191.233

New issue of the gargoyle webcomic is up.

http://www.ka-blamo.com/gargs/

also fill out the silly survey based on the gargoylesand the olympics
Shara
posted @ Tue, Sep 23, 2008 5:45:56 am EDT from 76.170.156.182

Adam> I think Brook means Jackal.
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth_dragon at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Mon, Sep 22, 2008 11:01:45 pm EDT from 71.56.36.35

Who is Shacal?
Adam - [carl006_1999 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Mon, Sep 22, 2008 9:29:28 pm EDT from 76.113.176.63

What about some injury to the wing membrane but the gate transports him before he has time to enter stone sleep and the membrane begins to scar.
Woods
"But them pussycats is quick" Mrs. Lovett
posted @ Mon, Sep 22, 2008 7:42:37 pm EDT from 192.101.250.250

Because I like him too much.

And that's gonna be Cyber Lex!! So we've got Shacal, Cyber Lex and Coldstone - not one Cyborg more... :(
Brook
posted @ Mon, Sep 22, 2008 6:39:38 pm EDT from 84.191.246.52

why don't we just put him through the blender and see what happens.. maybe he'll be like Coldstone and be made up of damaged body parts :p
Starlioness
posted @ Mon, Sep 22, 2008 6:37:23 pm EDT from 24.18.247.8

You should've told you "Hey, it's not worth 50 bucks!! I KNOW the show!! And I've read the comics and been to the Gatherings, and guess what?? IT SUCKS!! BADLY!!"

Now he knows you'll come back tomorrow and pay 60 bucks for it!!
Brook
posted @ Mon, Sep 22, 2008 6:28:03 pm EDT from 84.191.246.52

Not to mention that Bond bad guy... :S

So whatcha say guys - can we narrow it down to Horns/Tail/Wings???

Personaly, I'd prefer a scar in his beak though, since I like the guy.
Brook
posted @ Mon, Sep 22, 2008 6:26:31 pm EDT from 84.191.246.52

I found a really neat-o item in apflee market today. It was a japanese - definatly japanese - goliath toy with his arms spread wide, wings outstretched, and a button on top of his head that, when pushed, made him say (not in Keith's voice) "Gargoyles fight with honor!"

I think they got Ninja turtles and gargoyles confused. The Goliath toy is about 8" high and 5" long, and has that Japanese face with the weird eyes. ^_^ kinda. The Guy wanted $50 for it and I just wouldn't pay that. I offered him $30, but he said no. I said in no way was it worth $50, and I know because I am a fan of the show and I collect the toys, but he still said no.

So no picture. But still neat.
Battle beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Mon, Sep 22, 2008 6:26:00 pm EDT from 75.152.147.115

Brook: hehe, yeah that'd be too close to Darkwing's Steelbeak :)
Starlioness
posted @ Mon, Sep 22, 2008 6:24:25 pm EDT from 24.18.247.8

True, that'd be too close to Hudson...

Metal Jaw??? GOD, NO!!!!!!!!!!!! :O
Brook
posted @ Mon, Sep 22, 2008 6:08:41 pm EDT from 84.191.246.52

Brook and such:.. I still wonder if 10-12 is going to be Non-linear like the Rock saga was/is.. think it'd be more interesting that way but I dunno..

Angela's whisper: I still have fun thinking what she's saying to broadway even though I know she wan'ts to stay to help Brook and Goliath.. BW:my what is undone? :p..

speaking of 10-12 I wonder if Puck or the Weird sisters will show up in it..since Puck has an idea of what Brook will looke like when he comes back.. and the sisters mention that the Gate was forged on Avalon. maybe a bit more detail on how this thing works..

so it's a good bet that Broadway and Angela will be there when Brook leaves.. but who else is going to be at the castle?.. it's likely that Hudson and Lex might stay in london a few more days.. Xanatos would probably have to do some explaining to the illuminati.. Owen and Bronx will probably be in the castle doing their own thing as well as Goliath and Elisa... hmmm..

as for Brook's injury I thought about Brook having an eye damaged or maybe being blind but that's too similar to hudson.. I like mutitalited tail theory.. I've seen a fanart once of one his wings damaged but I don't know how that happened..
Starlioness
posted @ Mon, Sep 22, 2008 6:06:16 pm EDT from 24.18.247.8

Guys, sure, I'd be with you - but there are two facors here:

1.: Me - a large Brooklyn fan. He's still my favourite character, and I would hate seeing him loose a wind or something like this.

2.: Gregs ideas. So far, the guy's surprised us with what he's got up his sleeves. I mean, we saw for example what Christopher Nolan had up his sleeve with TWO FACE - not saying it's going to be in the same vein, but Greg surely has got something in his head!!

But it must be something bigger - Greg would have gotten "Ah, see, just a couple o scars and stuff..." nobody would have paid attention - but he specifically mentioned that it was a permanent injury, and that he wouldn't tell us if it was "Healabl" by stone sleep, which kind it was, how he got the injury and if it was big/minor.

I'm not talking about clues - I'm also talking about symmetry. I mean, Greg isn't Allan Moore, but he's got a lot of stuff that is "typical" in the series - a lot of themes that repeat. The iniciation trips of Goliath, Brooklyn and (probably) Lex. Eyes play a big role in the garg verse, as do Doppelgangers/reflections of the characters - there's definetely a mirror theme going through it. Every character has his or her dark reflection - Demona having Macbeth and later turning human by daylight herself. There's a certain aspect of duality that runs throughout the show, and I guess with Brooklyns injury, it will be the same. And I think we've seen his reflection allready, but only subconsciously.

So most pople figured he loses "A wing" or "A horn" - specifically implying "1"!! Why just 1??
Brook
posted @ Mon, Sep 22, 2008 6:03:26 pm EDT from 84.191.246.52

Don't know why I considered it, but maybe he loses one of his horns.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Mon, Sep 22, 2008 5:30:25 pm EDT from 71.120.226.102

Brooklyn's Injury> On the subject of the leather strap or bandage on Brooklyn's hand in "Future Tense," are that shots that clearly show he has it on his right hand and not his left? It could just be a strap that holds his armor in place.

Keep in mind also that there would have to be a reason that this injury wasn't healed by stone sleep. In my mind, that makes the loss of a body part more likely than a scar, though as Hudson's eye shows, scars aren't beyond the realm of possibility.

Unless Greg has outright said that the story thus far has clues that suggest what Brooklyn's injury will be, I wouldn't spend too much time looking for them. A lot of things that happen in the Gargoyles Universe do make sense in hindsight, but not every single thing can be predicted by looking at what has come before.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Mon, Sep 22, 2008 4:30:22 pm EDT from 146.115.115.33

That idea down there is quite interresting...

Not even about the tail, but about Katana chopping it to save his life...

HURM...
Brook
posted @ Mon, Sep 22, 2008 2:01:45 pm EDT from 84.191.230.103

Brook> Hudson's blind friend is Jeffrey Robbins.

I don't think it's likely to happen this way, but the first time I read that Brooklyn was going to come back with some obvious injury (which was some years ago now), I instantly imagined him with an amputated tail. Soon, I imagined that it had been Katana herself that had cut it off, because it had been the only way to save the rest of him. It's yet another idea that I never turned into a fanfic.

Still, if it's not such a drastic change, I guess a scar or a broken horn or a chipped beak or something are all probably more likely.
Supermorff
posted @ Mon, Sep 22, 2008 1:55:13 pm EDT from 86.168.25.37

We need an edit button...

Also:

- Broadway being blind in FT
- "glowing" eyes of Gargoyles

I'm sure if I'd be more familiar with certain EPs I'd be able to name a lot moe.
Brook
posted @ Mon, Sep 22, 2008 1:29:01 pm EDT from 84.191.204.133

I thought she'd ay something of a more... adult mater... but I liked how Greg went all "Aw hell..." and figured how we pretty much got Brooklyns PoV, thinking something different.

Yeah, he's got a bandage or someting like that around his right hand.

I asked him, a while back, and he never said they were that "drastic" - however, the first question question on that matter clearly implies that we talk about a "sca", not an inner trauma or something. So he receives an injury, and I guess that there ARE clues throughout the series, that hint at that, but they're too small to "get".

I also liked thefact Broadway was blind in Future Tense - my guess is that Greg is implying to us that Broadway indeed "blind" in a way - meant he's not seeing something/he's too naive.

So, in a way, I guess we've seen a LOT allready being hinted at, but we're too clueless to put our fingers on it.

My guess for Brooklyns injurie were something to his eyes. They've got a strong meaning in he GargVerse, think about it:

- Hudson being blinded/scarred by the archmage
- Eye of Odin
- Hudsoons friend who'snameIcan'tremember,inexcusablelapseforafanboy;)
- Shacals fake eye

etc.etc.
Brook
posted @ Mon, Sep 22, 2008 1:10:49 pm EDT from 84.191.230.1

Brook> I'll have to watch in again, but I never noticed anything about Brooklyn's right hand? What is "up" with it? Is there some kind of scar? Does he seem to be favoring it somehow? Does he hold it in a weird position?

My feeling, which I think is shared by a number of fans, is that Brooklyn's injury was going to be something more visible and dramatic. It has been described as a "disfiguring injury," though I can't find an Ask Greg answer where Greg uses that term himself. But if that it the case, it seems like it would imply something more noticeable. Also, I think part of the purpose of the injury is to add an extra visual reminder that this is not the same Brooklyn who disappeared from the castle less than a minute prior. While it may be pretty easy in real life to tell the difference between someone at 20 and the same person at 40 (Brooklyn's biological age before and after timedancing), it's a lot harder to show that difference with a more stylized animated or comic book character. There are easy visual cues to show that a character is a baby, a young kid, an older kid, a teenager, or elderly, but the stages of adulthood are much more visually subtle. So something like a broken horn or a prominent scar would be a visual cue showing that time has passed and Brooklyn has been through a lot. Going back to "Future Tense," it's the same reason why all of the characters have changes to their costumes of physical appearances. Aside from the shock value for Goliath and the audience, it stands in for the fact that the character designs can't really be made to look subtly older. And since the comic doesn't have the benefit of sound and the various voice actors subtly aging the voices of their characters, the visuals have to do even more to tell us about what's happened.

But until the trade comes out and we see Brooklyn's return for ourselves, we won't know for sure. So your guess is as good as mine.

And yes, I saw that comment about what Angela whispered to Broadway. Much as I enjoy the comic and think Greg is doing a great job writing it, I think this was a rare case of unclear storytelling. A lot of people were confused about what Angela might have been saying and didn't get the idea that she was taking Brooklyn's concern for Goliath's weakened state more seriously than he had intended and was merely suggesting to Broadway that they should stay and help take care of things at home if her father really was that weak. (Poor Brooklyn. He tries to get some time away from the lovebirds and his plan ends up completely backfiring.) It might have been more helpful to actually print what Angela said and use something like a broken line around the word balloon to make it clear that she's whispering and only Broadway can hear her. Or have her suggest out loud that she'll stay if needs be and then have Broadway offer to stay as well.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:44:29 pm EDT from 146.115.115.33

Brook> Yeah He had a bandage or leather strip covering his right hand.
Woods
"But them pussycats is quick" Mrs. Lovett
posted @ Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:43:21 pm EDT from 192.101.250.250

Dunno if you guys read this, quite a good thing to know though:
_____________________________________________________________________
Phil writes...

Okay, let's try this.

What did Angela whisper to Broadway just before he decided no to go to England with Macbeth?

(You'd better tell us now, before the mystery gets all blown out of proportion.)

Greg responds...

<chuckle>

I really didn't think this was much of a mystery. I don't know her exact words, but it was something like: "If Goliath isn't well, we should really back Brooklyn up here, so he isn't on his own if there's trouble."

It was all very well-meaning. With the density (that I have often observed) common in the newly coupled, they don't realize the effect they're having on poor Brook. Too busy staring into each others' eyes, I guess.

Of course, Angela knows or knew that Brook had a crush on her, but she also ONLY viewed it as a crush and didn't take it too seriously, and again -- without thinking too deeply about it, assuming she's thinking at all about it -- must assume he's over it by now. Lex seems to be.

B.W. perhaps should be more sensitive, but he's equally blind to it. And to be fair, Brooklyn's keeping his angst to himself. What's obvious to the reader, isn't always obvious to the characters. Look at what tips you off, and look and see if the other characters are privy to that knowledge.

It's only in this scene that Goliath finally figures it out.

Having typed the above, I'm half-inclined to delete it all. To some extent, it feels like I'm cheating as a storyteller by explaining this. Either it's working or it's not. So if I DON'T delete, it's totally due to how you phrased the question, Phil. This isn't a mystery worth years of speculation -- assuming even the Titania/Fox thing was worth that. So there you have it. Unless I delete. In which case, you don't.

Response recorded on January 07, 2008
Brook
posted @ Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:17:49 pm EDT from 84.191.218.180

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