Comment Room Archive : Gargoyles : Station Eight

Greg's commentary on Alex and Oberon:

"That's your point of view. Not his. Not even mine necessarily. I'm not saying he was right about taking Alexander in any kind of moral sense. But I certainly see his point from a "law-interpretation" sense. Alex was a "Child of Oberon" (not literally). He therefore was not a mortal and not subject to the non-interference rule. Quite the contrary, Oberon had declared the Gathering. Alex was REQUIRED to attend by Oberon's law. Since he couldn't get there on his own power, Oberon was simply providing a taxi service. Giving them an hour -- monstrously cruel as it sounds to us -- seemed to him like a generous concession. After all, Alex was due in Avalon yesterday -- literally.

You can see the 'fairness' of his judgment in the way he deals with Fox. He could have insisted that she come too. Costing Xanatos both wife and child. But he ruled that Fox was "regrettably human". And thus he could not touch her. From his point of view he was being very fair.

And mentioning Oberon's earlier comment is specious. He didn't know who Alex was at the time.

Xanatos certainly, and obviously, has his point of view. But who is he to interpret Oberon's law relative to Oberon himself. Who had the backing of Titania by the way in said interpretation. "
Greg Bishansky
Did you ever notice, the only one in A Christmas Carol with any character is Scrooge? Marley is a whiner who fucked over the world and then hadn't the spine to pay his dues quietly; Belle, Scrooge's ex-girlfriend, deserted him when he needed her most; Bob Cratchit is a gutless toady without enough get-up-and-go to assert himself; and the less said about that little treacle-mouth, Tiny Tim, the better.
posted @ Sat, Dec 27, 2008 7:18:49 pm EST from 24.205.39.101

Mab: I've also been under the impression that Mab's return was one of the many stories that Greg had planned for his third season (it was definitely brought up when the question came on how much do we now of what's still to come now that the Double-Date story & Stone of Destiny story have been revealed).

Merlin: I don't know. If Oberon considered Alex enough of a Child (and technically, the kid was a "quarterling", not even a halfling) to try and take him from his parents for the Gathering, I think he'd probably consider Merlin under his rule (not even considering that Merlin is O's own son as well).

Fox seems to be exempt for the simple matter that she was, in his words, regrettably human.
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Sat, Dec 27, 2008 7:17:00 pm EST from 68.98.115.219

GREY WOLF - I always assumed that Mab's return would be in the main series, as something that Goliath and Co. would have to face. (And although I can imagine a few Avalon gargs getting killed in the fighting, I don't think that the entire clan would die. Even in "Avalon", where the clan was pitted against a group of powerful adversaries like the enhanced Archmage, it only suffered one casualty (the Magus).
Todd Jensen
www.gunnerkrigg.com/index2.php
posted @ Sat, Dec 27, 2008 7:07:18 pm EST from 4.245.20.240

*Back reads*
On the Xanatos' and M.Clan: In my oppinion, I suppose they value eachother's existance. Lexington and Alex obviously get along, so that might have a kind of nuetralizing effect on their respective families.

Gargoytles and Holidays: The Solstice and New Years are good times for reflection. For all we know, one (or more) 'human' customs might mesh with their own.
I don't see them exchanging gifts. Maybe the inhabitants of the Eyrie Building gathering for a nice dinner?
Oh, God.... Santa? Anyone wanna elaborate on that tid-bit?

London Clan and Animals: They might feel a connection. And I would imagine it would be hard to eat something that looked terribly like you, know what I mean?

Adolesent Alexander: The 'rules' apply to him. Puck, Titania, and maybe even Oberon might keep an eye on him when hormones start a ragin'.

Mab's Breakout: I was under the impression this would occur AFTER 2198. Because we know the Avalon Clan is still alive during the invasion, but Greg said they might not survive Mab.
By the way, is it just me, or do 2198 and Mab's release scream 'Puck's big shot(s) at redemption?'

Gathering 2009: I'm coaxing my parents into making arrangments ;)
Conventions give me mixed feelings. On the one hand, Pidgeon Forge was AWSOME! On the other, I'm still terrified of people and L.A. promises to be crowded.
Grey Wolf
Happy Holidays!
posted @ Sat, Dec 27, 2008 7:01:47 pm EST from 24.56.124.211

PHOENICIAN - Since Merlin is partly human, Oberon's Law probably doesn't apply to him. I'd say it only covers the Third Race and not any offspring they might have by humans, though a later revelation in the series could always contradict that.
Todd Jensen
www.gunnerkrigg.com/index2.php
posted @ Sat, Dec 27, 2008 6:48:39 pm EST from 4.245.20.240

Yeah, definitely an old Greg quote.

But I think it's the perfect answer to these "who would win in a fight? Who's stronger? Who's more powerful? questions.

I don't care much for power levels. There are way too many factors for this sort of thing.
Greg Bishansky
Did you ever notice, the only one in A Christmas Carol with any character is Scrooge? Marley is a whiner who fucked over the world and then hadn't the spine to pay his dues quietly; Belle, Scrooge's ex-girlfriend, deserted him when he needed her most; Bob Cratchit is a gutless toady without enough get-up-and-go to assert himself; and the less said about that little treacle-mouth, Tiny Tim, the better.
posted @ Sat, Dec 27, 2008 3:42:29 pm EST from 24.205.39.101

Greg B, you might want to through some quotes around that one after all the discussion about ripping off Greg W... : )
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
Jesus Loves You... but I'm still his favorite.
posted @ Sat, Dec 27, 2008 3:35:52 pm EST from 70.237.136.48

Robby Barrows> I think the Thing is on an average day, stronger than the Hulk. But the madder Hulk gets the stronger he gets. So ultimately the Hulk is stronger. But that doesn't mean the Thing can't take him. Ben Grimm knows his stuff.

There. I hope that answers your question.
Greg Bishansky
Did you ever notice, the only one in A Christmas Carol with any character is Scrooge? Marley is a whiner who fucked over the world and then hadn't the spine to pay his dues quietly; Belle, Scrooge's ex-girlfriend, deserted him when he needed her most; Bob Cratchit is a gutless toady without enough get-up-and-go to assert himself; and the less said about that little treacle-mouth, Tiny Tim, the better.
posted @ Sat, Dec 27, 2008 3:33:36 pm EST from 24.205.39.101

Which of Oberon's children could, theoretically, approach him in power? Anubis? Odin? Puck?
Robby Barrows - [rbgecko at yahoo dot com]
SuperSaiyaMan12
posted @ Sat, Dec 27, 2008 3:22:59 pm EST from 68.116.180.70

My theory:

Oberon fathers Merlin.
Merlin helps Oberon overthrow Mab (hence the favor Oberon owes Merlin).
Oberon weds Titania and they have a daughter: Morgana la Fay. The infant Morgana is exchanged for the infant Nimue... daughter of Duke Gorlois and Lady Igraine.
Merlin helps Uther Pendragon father Arthur.
Greg Bishansky
Did you ever notice, the only one in A Christmas Carol with any character is Scrooge? Marley is a whiner who fucked over the world and then hadn't the spine to pay his dues quietly; Belle, Scrooge's ex-girlfriend, deserted him when he needed her most; Bob Cratchit is a gutless toady without enough get-up-and-go to assert himself; and the less said about that little treacle-mouth, Tiny Tim, the better.
posted @ Sat, Dec 27, 2008 2:43:13 pm EST from 24.205.39.101

Todd: Was Oberon's Law in effect in the fifth century during Merlin's time with Arthur? For that matter, was Oberon even in power in the time of Merlin & Arthur, or was Queen Mab still in power?

The Garg Wiki reads that Oberon decreed his "No interfering" law after he overthrew Mab, but Mab's reign of tenure remains unknown.

And according to http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=8899 Oberon overthrew Mab AFTER Merlin's brith, so Merlin may not have been subject to Oberon's Law throughout many of his adventures with Arthur. At the latest, Oberon came in power at least shortly before Arthur's trip to Avalon, where he clearly has the authority to grant Merlin permission to rest Arthur in the Hollow Hill.
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Sat, Dec 27, 2008 2:24:56 pm EST from 68.98.115.219

*sigh* here we go again...

Daniel - I for one have no problem with you posting here, nor with the things you say.

The problem here is, that if a CERTAIN person might know of what you are doing, you might get sued, even if your idea is just close to a series/show. Be it Harry Potter, Gargoyles or Duck Tales.

BUT - I really don't think Disney would sue you, nor would BV or Greg. Why? Frankly, because they might not care. So I'd advise you to just go on and do it.

Though, asking Greg might not be a good idea, for reasons both I and others have pointed out. Creators are quite sensitive when it comes to such stuff. If you've created a plot point that is close to a plot point Greg wanted to equip in the future, there is a chance for you to sue him for stealing your idea, even if he never intended to. I know you would not, but writers are very sensitive when it comes to that matter, and therefore don't listen to anything that comes close to their own material.

HOWEVER - if you ask greg about how you can upgrade and better the canon you are writing on, I'm sure he might give you a lot of (especially technical) advise how to do it.

So why the sigh in the beginning? Because a lot of people on here tend to be a bit rude when it comes to people trying to bring their point over when it stretches above what it is intended as. (not pointing my fingers at anyone)

See, if you go to George Lucas, and ask him for some advice, and proceed telling him of that Sci-Fi series with a Bad Guy in a suit, small furry bears and a green, Gremlin like elder, he might be offended. And so might Greg if you tell him about your story including Gargoyle like creatures, even though they're public domain themselves.

I fully disagree with the HP statement also - writing about a wizard school does not mean you copy an idea, but equipping a name, like Hogwarts, surely is.

So my advise to you is: if you write a story about Gargoyles, make sure that it comes in as few points as possible close to the series of the same name. Because if it might be close to the universe of the series, you might get some problems. (also, IF it should play in the same Universe, it is fanfiction)
Brook
posted @ Sat, Dec 27, 2008 1:16:40 pm EST from 84.191.194.210

I concur with Rebel and King Cobra; Unlike a true troll, Danial has shown remorse for his past misdeeds. So I for one, am willing to give him another chance; provided he promises to behave himself from now on.
Algernon
Help! I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body!
posted @ Sat, Dec 27, 2008 12:36:40 pm EST from 86.41.209.247

I side with Rebel here; as long as a person behaves himself/herself, we should just back out.

Give Daniel another chance.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Sat, Dec 27, 2008 11:18:34 am EST from 99.54.147.94

Spen > Then I guess we are in disagreement. Personally, I have no problem with Daniel posting here, if he stops ingratiating himself and just acts normal.

I read last week's comments, and I don't really care what happened last week. But maybe I'm in the minority.
Rebel
posted @ Sat, Dec 27, 2008 9:19:59 am EST from 65.6.100.177

BISHANSKY - And more unusual headaches than most parents of teenagers from wealthy families, in light of Alex's abilities. Let's hope that they won't need to find a way to modify the memories of most of New York's inhabitants after some wild spree.

Oberon's Law probably only applies to full-blooded members of the Third Race, not to halflings. But we don't know for certain. For example, Merlin's a half-human son of Oberon (a literal child of Oberon) who had a major role in Arthurian Britain (and the decades leading up to Arthur's reign). Did Oberon's Law not apply to him when he did things like borrowing the Stone of Destiny from the Scots to set up the Sword in the Stone, or did he find a loophole (like, say, the Weird Sisters)? (We know that, in Greg's Master Plan, Morgan le Fay is one of the Third Race; she must have found a loophole to carry out her plots against King Arthur. Maybe being raised as a changeling helped.)
Todd Jensen
www.gunnerkrigg.com/index2.php
posted @ Sat, Dec 27, 2008 6:57:36 am EST from 4.244.215.198

Greg B: What ambitions Alex may have in his younger years is beyond me at the moment -- his only word at the moment is currently "Doggie!" and that's hardly a clue to anything -- but like you said, he's not only going to be the richest bachelor in the world, he's the son of two of the most ambitious people on earth as well as a Child of Oberon. Any future lesson from Puck is likely to be just as much of a fiasco as "Possession," if not worse ;)

Something also to consider -- Is/Will he be subject to Oberon's "Don't interfere with the mortals" law?

If he is, I imagine he'll occasionally find a way to bend the law just like Puck, the Weird Sisters and other Children have managed to do, but I imagine that will influence this kid's childhood and adolescence. It MAY be an effective check on the occasional tantrum, but as he grows older I imagine it'll compell Alex to be even MORE creative than his parents ever were.

Then again, X&F have always expected great things for the kid -- they named him Alexander for a reason, and that was BEFORE either of them knew he was the grandkid of Queen Titania.

This now has me also thinking how Queen Mab's breaking out will fit in all this, and I wonder if the Trickster-kidnapping-ALex story may be a consequence from that (every other Child is on Avalon, save Puck & Alex. Hmm, well Merlin too, but he's in the Crystal Cave, right?).

Those are my thoughts/ramblings on the subject(s). Thanks a lot Greg, now I'll never go to sleep . . . :P
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Sat, Dec 27, 2008 4:31:17 am EST from 68.98.115.219

Rebel : "If you care about Gargoyles, then there is no problem with you posting here." That's not always the case. I'd be willing to bet any amount of money (if I had any, that is) that if Doug Elder were to come in here right now, he'd be chased out with pitchforks. And that's just one example.

Just because the room has been wiped, that does not mean that our memories have been wiped. And there are certain cases where we should not by any means have a "forgive and forget" policy. When it comes to trolls, we shouldn't tolerate their return unless we are completely satisfied that they are sorry, and that it will never happen again. And, in cases like this one, where the person in question hasn't even admitted to having done anything wrong, we should just ignore their existence entirely.

Greg B. : Yeah, I'd say you're probably right about Alex.
Spen
"Aside from that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"
posted @ Sat, Dec 27, 2008 3:56:39 am EST from 66.43.205.110

Just a thought on Alexander Fox Xanatos. Now, we all know what he grows up to be. By 2198, he, as Alexander Fox Xanatos IV, is the Secretary General of the United Nations. So, clearly he's a leader and definitely the product of his parents.

But I wonder about Alex as a teenager and as a younger man. This kid is, essentially growing up with a lot more power than any of us. The son of one of the world's wealthiest men. Not to mention magical powers inherited from his mother. And, children of powerful people do tend to have their own scandals as well. He will be in the public eye, and the gargoyle connection will only increase that.

Am I the only one who sees a wild and rebellious phase for this kid? Never mind the man he obviously is by 2198. But, I think he will cause more than a few headaches for his parents.
Greg Bishansky
Did you ever notice, the only one in A Christmas Carol with any character is Scrooge? Marley is a whiner who fucked over the world and then hadn't the spine to pay his dues quietly; Belle, Scrooge's ex-girlfriend, deserted him when he needed her most; Bob Cratchit is a gutless toady without enough get-up-and-go to assert himself; and the less said about that little treacle-mouth, Tiny Tim, the better.
posted @ Sat, Dec 27, 2008 3:27:53 am EST from 24.205.39.101

Sean: The comics should be out sometime next month, so be on the lookout! Hopefully...
lonerider26 - [lonerider26 at gmail dot com]
"The story is told-though who can say if it be true..."~Shari
posted @ Sat, Dec 27, 2008 3:01:01 am EST from 71.239.117.121

Any news on the comics or gargoyles in general lately? There hasn't been any changes /new info from Greg on his site since like September. Just wondering, since the ask questions option is down on the site... can't ask him.
sean - [Jester2415 at aol dot com]
posted @ Sat, Dec 27, 2008 1:55:22 am EST from 76.175.26.63

Daniel > Dude, relax. What happened, happened, and now it's over. You don't have to keep bringing it up or ingratiating yourself. This comment room is not like some kind of cool-kids-only lunch table in a junior high cafeteria. If you have something to say, just say it like any other poster would. There's no need to bring up past disagreements or mistakes. If you care about Gargoyles, then there is no problem with you posting here. :)

That said, thanks for pointing out that that article needs updating. I don't update the gargwiki, but I fully support all efforts to keep it as updated as possible.

To the people who work on the wiki, you guys do a great job. The wiki looks really good and is an amazing resource.
Rebel
posted @ Fri, Dec 26, 2008 10:44:10 pm EST from 65.6.100.177

Ed - Yes, the differences are subtle. Extended scenes and bullets mostly, but the episodes are put together in movie form. BUT... only the first episodes are on DVD so far, you can't get them all on DVD yet.

(and I just got my copy in the mail. Just another reason I loved working on the show... FREE SPIDEY!)
Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson
"Cats don't fight spiders.... we just bat em around!" Black Cat, Spectacular Spider-man
posted @ Fri, Dec 26, 2008 9:45:07 pm EST from 76.174.154.162

Heads up to people in the UK -- the whole first season of 'Spectacular Spider-Man' is available on itunes! It's the episodic versions so (presumably) not the version in the DVD movies, but I'm told the differences are fairly minor anyway. I'm downloading as we speak, and it's looking splendid.

Check it out!
Ed
posted @ Fri, Dec 26, 2008 8:38:36 pm EST from 213.187.38.226

Hey guys, I'm still waiting for a job, but until then may i just say that For Gargoyles Wiki, The A Midsummer Night's Dream section should be updated, In THe 2008 Gathering, Greg himself stated that the Play did take place in The Gargoyles Universe, all the character, all the plots, everything! I know because i asked him myself there, if any of you were there, you've heard it too, i Hope? So I'm just suggesting it could be updated. But by all means feel free to ignore me, I'm just trying to help and keep Gargoyles Wiki Updated, but if you guys are still annoyed and disgusted by me, by all means pretend i don't exist.
Daniel Abraham Raviv. - [dar111191 at gmail dot com]
Daniel Abraham Raviv.
posted @ Fri, Dec 26, 2008 6:53:26 pm EST from 24.7.204.215

It was a good christmas. I got some news I didn't want to here, and I am pretty depressed about it, but I knew the writing was on the wall.

I won't go on about what I got or didn't get because some people didn't get ANYTHING. I wish I could help... but my prayers will ahve to do!

HAppy New Year, Everyone!
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Fri, Dec 26, 2008 3:08:00 pm EST from 75.156.190.146

****Blaise appears in a flash of red and green lights. He heads over to the table, scarfs down a cookie and chugs a tankard of eggnog.****

A belated "Merry Christmas" wish, along with a belated "Happy Hanukkah" wish, and a "Happy Boxing Day" for good measure!

It was a lean one for all my family--and even tougher for me because I can't be with them. I spent the day by myself. Worse, I couldn't afford to get anyone a gift. Technically, my mom couldn't afford to get me a gift, but somehow she managed to justify sending me the complete "Dungeons & Dragons" animated series DVD set. MAN--what a walk down memory lane.

I also got a $10 Wal-Mart gift card from my sister and brother-in-law, and a check for $60 from my grandmother (which I really, really, REALLY needed).

Still, I got to talk with pretty much everyone I cared about on the phone, and that brought some joy.

Until next time! ****Blaise places his finger alongside his nose, and shoots up and out through the fireplace...which still holds a fire. Blaise's scream can be heard for quite some time.****
Blaise
posted @ Fri, Dec 26, 2008 2:59:02 pm EST from 206.170.104.36

Hmm...Christmas?

The crown jewel: Real Ghostbusters Time Life DVD set. Yes. Just, yes. :D

*Transformers Animated Swoop and Ultra Magnus figures
*copies of E.E. Knight's Dragon Strike and George R.R. Martin's illustrated edition of The Ice Dragon
*Eva-03 Kaiyodo figure
*Nobility Chameleon jewlery box
Incisivis - [incisivis at hotmail dot com]
"No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream" -- Shirley Jackson
posted @ Fri, Dec 26, 2008 1:15:52 pm EST from 216.36.154.204

I got the TALES OF BEEDLE THE BARD Special Edititon!!

http://www.slashfilm.com/wp/wp-content/images/bard1.jpg

RAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Brook
posted @ Fri, Dec 26, 2008 10:41:40 am EST from 84.191.254.233

I was watching one of the Granada Sherlock Holmes episodes last night on PBS (the ones starring the late Jeremy Brett as Holmes), "The Six Napoleons", and discovered during the ending credits that Marina Sirtis (the voice of Demona) appeared in it. (She played a woman named Lucrezia Venucci, the daughter of a Mafia boss in London, and was either married or engaged - I wasn't sure which - to the perp in the story, a man named Beppo who had stolen an extremely valuable pearl but had fallen out of favor with the Mafia after deciding to keep it for himself.)
Todd Jensen
www.gunnerkrigg.com/index2.php
posted @ Fri, Dec 26, 2008 7:05:40 am EST from 4.244.211.28

For any Laura San Giacomo/Fox fans, I want to point out the Season 3 of Just Shoot Me! is coming out Feb. 24th!
http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/news/Just-Shoot-Season-3/10949
http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/releases/Just-Shoot-Complete-3rd-Season/8440

The news is a month old, but I just found out myself.
UmbrellaFish
posted @ Fri, Dec 26, 2008 5:50:10 am EST from 76.7.116.184

*Gets up from under the cookie table and briskly runs out of the CR. Promptly returns with two kegs full of egg nog*

I'm sure everyone knows what to do with these! ;)

Hope everyone had a good day. I spent mine lying in bed for most of the day due to a bad headache. It finally went away not too long ago. At least I have a $100 gift card and some money to spend for after Christmas goodies.

And with about 10 minutes left before the next day begins I'll just say...

To all a good night!

*Opens a keg and pours egg nog into a mug*
The One Known As Mochi - [shogi dot keima dot 08 at gmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>T.T)> Tired...
posted @ Fri, Dec 26, 2008 2:50:33 am EST from 72.220.179.8

A belated Merry Christmas to Everyone *hugs and handshakes all round*
and Happy boxing day-which is what it is now.
Wingless
Recovering from surgery
posted @ Fri, Dec 26, 2008 1:12:22 am EST from 99.245.254.123

Today I got:
- New Headphones for my computer
- Spider-Man Wallet
- Teen Titans The Complete Third Season
- Captain N and the New Super Mario World
- DC Super Heroes The Filmation Adventures
- X-Men The Complete Age Of Apocaylpse Volume 4
- Logitech Controller for my computer

Presents on order:
- X-Men The Complete Age Of Apocalypse Volume 3
- The All New Super Friends Hour Volume 1-2
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Thu, Dec 25, 2008 10:53:51 pm EST from 71.120.226.102

Todd > You bring up an interesting point. I've always been curious how members of the London clan feel about whatever animal they resemble. How do Constance and Amp feel about eating bacon and venison, respectively? How does Una feel about unicorns in myths and stories? I mean, I know that the London gargoyles bear no particular genetic relationship to the creature they resemble, but I wonder what effect resembling a particular animal has on an individual member of the London clan, or what effect resembling animals has had on their clan's culture.
Rebel
posted @ Thu, Dec 25, 2008 7:37:11 pm EST from 65.6.100.177

Well, it's been a pretty nice Christmas so far. My boss was invited to have Christmas dinner with some if his friends, so I got an automatic invite as well. Actually, that was quite possibly the best meal I've had all year.

Gift-wise, I got a *really* nice sweater from Connie. I pretty much canceled Christmas around here due to being rather strained economically. I did give out some homemade cookies, though.

Battle Beast : Wow. Thanks for mentioning me in all that! I wasn't expecting that. I don't really think of myself as someone who's "kept the magic of Gargoyles alive all these years".
Spen
"Aside from that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"
posted @ Thu, Dec 25, 2008 7:07:38 pm EST from 66.43.205.110

I was reading up on Christmas customs today, and discovered that in medieval England, they liked to serve boar's head at Christmas banquets. I wouldn't recommend bringing up that practice around Constance.
Todd Jensen
www.gunnerkrigg.com/index2.php
posted @ Thu, Dec 25, 2008 6:12:27 pm EST from 4.244.210.11

** Drops down several cookies, and brownies on the Cookie Table **

Merry Christmas, guys . . . good day, I got V for Vendetta on DVD and a Barnes & Noble gift card. Gave my dad and granfather Godfather Parts I & II on DVD and my mother and siblings a bunch of memorabilia (sweaters, T-shirts, etc) from my university. (Some films like WALL-E will probably pop up before the day is over)

All in all, a smaller Christmas than previous ones, but not a bad one. Any and all family and friends visiting today will also get to treat my freshly baked cookies and brownies. :D

Here's hoping everyone is having a safe and pleasant day :)
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Thu, Dec 25, 2008 5:02:35 pm EST from 68.98.115.219

I got a new pair of jeans, alot of bath stuff, socks, Nightware, Arsenal 2009 Calendar, £15 HMV voucher and a video Camera which I haven't got yet, hopefully I get it next week.
VickyUK - [vickyfanofwwe at aol dot com]
posted @ Thu, Dec 25, 2008 2:59:03 pm EST from 64.12.117.134

Vinnie: Yep, that's the term I was looking for. Thank you kindly :)

And Happy Holidays everyone!
lonerider26 - [lonerider26 at gmail dot com]
'The story is told--though who can say if it be true..."~Shari
posted @ Thu, Dec 25, 2008 12:47:33 pm EST from 71.239.117.121

Merry Christmas, everyone! Hope to day and the next few days are happy and blessed. Keep safe.

No gifts opened today yet, but I wasn't expecting anything. I already know what I'm getting, but it won't start until next month anyway (it's office stuff).
Asatira
posted @ Thu, Dec 25, 2008 12:29:22 pm EST from 68.190.20.172

Just opened more presents this morning.

Several Blu-Ray movies. Terminator 2, AVP, Stanley Kubrick's The Shining, Saw and Saw II. Several gift cards, for Pizza Hut, Best Buy, and Blockbuster Video. A couple pairs of pants, and socks.

Vid The Kid has the first 4 seasons of Buffy, a PS2 game, a Pizza Hut card, and socks. Not to mention his aforementioned Blu-Ray Player.

Merry Christmas.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Thu, Dec 25, 2008 11:46:23 am EST from 69.223.190.54

*stuffs several decorations into a burlap sack, and starts towards the refrigerator when he realizes that the lights in the room have come on*

Oh, don't everyone look so shocked... ( ;

Merry Christmas, everybody. Or Happy Hannukah, or Krazy Kwanzaa. Or if you're an atheist, Happy Consumerism Day!

*drops the sack and flings a smoke bomb on the ground. When the smoke clears, he's still standing there.*

Oh, yeah, I was supposed to run away, wasn't I?
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Why not spare a thought this day for those who have no flame to warm their bones at Christmas time? Say Jack Frost and the Hooded Crow." -Ian Anderson
posted @ Thu, Dec 25, 2008 11:45:56 am EST from 76.27.174.85

I got a bathrobe and a lot money. Christmas around my house isn't nearly as big of a deal as it was when I was a kid.

For my grandmother, I got a nice jacket. For my aunt, I got a really beautiful flower pot. For my newphews, I got some DVDs--two James Bond movies, Wall-E, and The Dark Knight. The rest of my family and I have agreed not to exchange gifts, due to the hard economic times.
Rebel
posted @ Thu, Dec 25, 2008 10:47:26 am EST from 65.6.100.177

I got VidTheKid a Blu-ray player and some DVDs.

His dad gave me a portable CD player.

That's all so far.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Thu, Dec 25, 2008 7:22:39 am EST from 69.223.190.54

While I agree with everyone else that Goliath isn't interested in material gifts, I think he'd want one thing for Christmas: the humans extending "peace on earth" to include gargoyles.
Todd Jensen
www.gunnerkrigg.com/index2.php
posted @ Thu, Dec 25, 2008 6:52:32 am EST from 4.244.208.182

Happy Christmas Everyone

Got my Dad Adele CD
My Mum Book on Gemstones
My Sister A book on Windows Vista for Dummies
My Nephew Disneys Walle DVD
My Sister's Boyfriend £15
Got Myself The Dark Knight and Wanted DVDs
VickyUK - [vickyfanofwwe at aol dot com]
posted @ Thu, Dec 25, 2008 5:16:12 am EST from 64.12.117.134

Merry Christmas everyone! To you and yours, a SAFE and FUN Holiday! If You don't celebrate Christmas, have a fun day anyway!!

PLEASE - FOR THE LOVE OF GOD - DON'T DRINK AND DRIVE. I have too many Alcoholic Relatives and I worry about people. Use Operation Red-nose, call a taxi, a friend, anything... STAY SAFE!!!

To those of you who have kept the magic of Gargoyles alive all these years,

Greg Weisman, Michael Reeves, Bryne Reeves, Erin, Benny, Christine Charlebois, Robby Brevard, Dave Hedgecock, Greg Guler, The Con Staff,

To Kieth, Sally, Ed, Jeff, Tom, Frank, John, Mirina, Brent, Michael, Tom and all our other `voices`...

To those I have never met but talked to for years,

GOREBASH, Kris, Wingless, Greg B, Todd, Siren, Incivis, PurpleGoldfish, Crzydemona, Starlioness, Patrick, Antiyonder, Harvester of Eyes, Blaise, Stephen Sobotka, Vinnie, Spen, Lonerider26, Antiyonder, Rebel, Litwolf, Ozzie Arcane, Kingcobra, D. Taina, The One KNown as Mochi, Charisma82, Phoenician, Demonskrye, Vashkoda, Asatira, Tony Tini, Matt (From St. Louis), Algernon, VickyUk, DPH_of_rules... (If I missed anyone, please forgive me... it`s hard to type out all of these names!)

Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night!!!
battle Beast - [Canada]
posted @ Thu, Dec 25, 2008 2:11:02 am EST from 75.152.230.227

My brother is the easiest for me to shop for since our interests are similar. My mom is somewhat easy.

Anyway, got X-Men Evolution The Complete Third Season for DVD tonight.

Does anyone here ever try to disguise the present you're giving someone? After a while, it can be pretty easy to recognize a DVD or video game, thus I've used some boxes from Amazon, to keep the presents I wrap hard to figure out by shape.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Thu, Dec 25, 2008 1:50:52 am EST from 71.120.226.102

Well, let's see:

I got my mom a lumbar massage pillow and a three-pack of these multi-directional lights you can stick on a wall or ceiling.

I got my younger brother The Simpsons Season Ten and also South Park: Imaginationland.

I got my older brother a box of stuff for his deployment to Kirkuk, Iraq in January, which includes some bottles of Habenero Sauce (which he loves), a four-pack of shaving gel, and some other personal items. And I got him a shirt from Hot Topic.

For most of the rest of the family, I got Best Buy gift cards. I also mailed my dad, stepmother and half-siblings several gifts earlier this week, including a DVD of Wall-E and a new type of gift card that actually lets you pick something out from a catalog and then order it online. The person buying the card pays a certain amount for the card and for the catalog that goes with it, and the dollar amount covers whatever item the recipient wants to order. I've always had a hard time shopping for some people.

We've yet to actually open anything here, so I can't yet say what I've received.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Well, I'll just waltz on down to the Free Present Store! You think I have money to buy all that?" -Santa Claus ("Aqua Teen Hunger Force")
posted @ Thu, Dec 25, 2008 1:43:49 am EST from 76.27.174.85

I have an original, limited edition (#292 of 1000) promotional poster from when Gargoyles was launched (1994?) that was released by Buena Vista TV. It comes with a certificate of authenticity and the letter that was sent to my TV station regarding the launch of the show. It's been in the mailing tube it came in for the last 13 years. Is Fleabay the best place for me to sell this, or is there a space on this fansite to sell merchandise?
Flip Wheatley - [pcwheatley at yahoo dot com]
Flip
posted @ Thu, Dec 25, 2008 1:27:06 am EST from 70.132.10.205

Lonerider: I believe the term you are looking for is Zoroastrianism. Not sure if that is how it is spelt. Enjoy your christmas everyone.
Vinnie - [tpeano29 at hotmail]
Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night!
posted @ Thu, Dec 25, 2008 1:06:20 am EST from 69.54.209.22

It's now midnight according to my computer clock, so merry Christmas, everyone!
Spen
"Aside from that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"
posted @ Thu, Dec 25, 2008 12:50:54 am EST from 66.43.205.110

Oy, 'husband', not 'husbad'.

Oh, and Happy and/or Merry Festivus, everyone!
lonerider26 - [lonerider26 at gmail dot com]
"The story is told-though who can say if it be true..."~Shari
posted @ Thu, Dec 25, 2008 12:17:06 am EST from 71.239.117.121

Wow, I missed a lot in the four days I spent without cable. I must re-cap.

GregX: If Shari is indeed Scheherazade, then yes, she's Muslim. She could be Zor...Zor... Darnit, I can't remember the name. But I do know that it was one of the main religions of the Persian Empire, and that Shahryar, her husbad, belonged to it. So, maybe she reverted.
But, most likely, she's severely Westernized. Or perhaps high-ranking Illuminati members all belong to the same religion. Who knows?
Also, I see her as a 'bah-humbug' person anyway, so I highly doubt she'd be spending much time celebrating.

I'd give my enemy's Christmas presents. And there would be a very angry Chihuahua inside each one with a big, red bow around their necks. And attached to the bows would be a tag which would read in blood red letters, 'RUN'.

I'd like to see a Gargoyles Christmas special. It would be extremely interesting to see how things play out.
lonerider26 - [lonerider26 at gmail dot com]
"The story is told-though who can say if it be true..."~Shari
posted @ Wed, Dec 24, 2008 11:47:24 pm EST from 71.239.117.121

I got my dad the complete series of Get Smart on DVD
I got my mom the first season of touched by an angel
I got my Grandma one of those gift packages (She doesn't really have any interests that I know of)
I got the girl I used to work with a Stewie Key Chain cause he's her favorite character from Family Guy

So far the only gifts I've gotten is money, but I don't actually swap presents with my parents till tommorrow.
Ozzie Arcane - [ozziearcane at yahoo dot com]
"Hello Booby! This is a trap!" - Eggplant Wizard
posted @ Wed, Dec 24, 2008 11:13:25 pm EST from 69.14.122.91

Haven't received an a regular present yet, but got some spending money from my Dad and Stepmom. With it I got:

- Dragon Quest 4 on the Nintendo DS.
- JLA/Avengers TPB
- Marvel What If? Classic Volume 4
- Marvel Romance
- Green Lantern Emerald Twilight and The Power Of Ion
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Wed, Dec 24, 2008 9:28:16 pm EST from 71.120.226.102

Let's see. How was my shopping this year.

I got my brother the Marvel Select: Thor figure.

I got our fandom's own Revel the two Warren Ellis "Thunderbolts" graphic novels. Think of the Redemption Squad except with real psychopaths on the team and Norman Osborn as their Director.

I got Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson the Clan Building Volume One trade and JMS's Thor graphic novel.

I got D.Taina "The Books of Doom"

I got myself "Dr. Horrible" on DVD.

And I received "The Dark Knight" on Blu-ray, and a lot of DVDs.
Greg Bishansky
Did you ever notice, the only one in A Christmas Carol with any character is Scrooge? Marley is a whiner who fucked over the world and then hadn't the spine to pay his dues quietly; Belle, Scrooge's ex-girlfriend, deserted him when he needed her most; Bob Cratchit is a gutless toady without enough get-up-and-go to assert himself; and the less said about that little treacle-mouth, Tiny Tim, the better.
posted @ Wed, Dec 24, 2008 9:13:59 pm EST from 24.205.39.101

My bad, I forgot the topic was what you would get someone you didn't like.

Regardless, any Santa's here want to describe what you got your friends/family?
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Wed, Dec 24, 2008 8:59:10 pm EST from 71.120.226.102

Here's what I got everyone for Christmas-
- My mom and stepdad: Either Season 4 and 6 of Friends (My brother got them Season 5).

- My brother: The Legend Of Zelda: A Link To The Past for the Game Boy Advance

- My stepsister and her kids: Avatar The Last Airbender The Complete Book One Collection

- My dad: Showcase Presents Blackhawks Volume 1

- My stepmom: Charmed Season 3

- My other stepsister and her daughter: a card with 20 dollars each.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Wed, Dec 24, 2008 8:57:31 pm EST from 71.120.226.102

"Peter Pan and the Pirates" also did a "Christmas Carol" take-off with a turned-around ending. In it, the Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come shows Captain Hook a future where he's dead, his pirates have fallen apart without him, and Peter Pan is saddened at the loss of his worthy opponent. Hook is enjoying the spectacle of Peter Pan feeling undone with no Hook to battle, until the Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come then shows him Peter forgetting all about Hook and looking out for new adversaries. Hook is so horrified at the thought of being consigned to oblivion by Peter that he vows to change indeed - for the worse. At the end of the episode, he's planning to carry out a new campaign against Peter so ruthless that the boy will never forget him.
Todd Jensen
www.gunnerkrigg.com/index2.php
posted @ Wed, Dec 24, 2008 6:31:31 pm EST from 4.244.208.14

Harvester of Eyes wrote the best Demona starring in "A Christmas Carol" fic I have ever read (and there are a few). And I just love how he ended it.

I love when clichés get turned on their heads.
Greg Bishansky
Did you ever notice, the only one in A Christmas Carol with any character is Scrooge? Marley is a whiner who fucked over the world and then hadn't the spine to pay his dues quietly; Belle, Scrooge's ex-girlfriend, deserted him when he needed her most; Bob Cratchit is a gutless toady without enough get-up-and-go to assert himself; and the less said about that little treacle-mouth, Tiny Tim, the better.
posted @ Wed, Dec 24, 2008 4:09:19 pm EST from 24.205.39.101

Somehow I doubt a Christmas card and a glass of eggnog would do much to turn Demona around.

And if any spirits visited were to her, I think she'd just go all Ghostbusters on them. :P
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2009]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Wed, Dec 24, 2008 4:06:02 pm EST from 76.205.89.131

Here it is, the greatest Christmas special ever:

http://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/103853/

I am so jealous, I wish I wrote this.
Greg Bishansky
Did you ever notice, the only one in A Christmas Carol with any character is Scrooge? Marley is a whiner who fucked over the world and then hadn't the spine to pay his dues quietly; Belle, Scrooge's ex-girlfriend, deserted him when he needed her most; Bob Cratchit is a gutless toady without enough get-up-and-go to assert himself; and the less said about that little treacle-mouth, Tiny Tim, the better.
posted @ Wed, Dec 24, 2008 3:23:47 pm EST from 24.205.39.101

I posted before I'd finished.

I got my Futurama Volume 2 DVDs out to watch the Robot Santa episode (actually there might've been a couple, minus his involvement in one of the direct-to-DVD films). Classic.

And yeah, the Xmas episode of Invader Zim is cool and necessarily subversive too. Santa should be mocked, it is ridiculous. It also worked as an okay finale for the series (since it was cancelled and didn't get one), since I believe it's the one time that Zim and Dib cooperate to defeat a common enemy, or at least the most significant time.
Kris - [plekopleko at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Wed, Dec 24, 2008 3:18:40 pm EST from 69.17.187.216

If my Justice League DVDs weren't lent out, I might watch "Comfort and Joy" today, arguably the best Xmas episode of any non-comedy cartoon (while the Flash/Ultra Humanite sequence is fun enough, it's definitely Christmas with the Kents and specifically how J'onn reacts to it all and ends up befriending the initially hissing cat and all that that got me the first time I watched the ep--also, Clark is a lot more fun and interesting to watch when he's just Clark, not Superman, which is probably the reason why that 2-parter where he ends up in the future as one of only two men left alive is one of my favorites--and of course Shayera and John Stewart's snowfight + bar brawl that leads to her tracing her hand around his face, kissing him, and resting against him among the heap of knocked out bodies is awesome as well. Great set-up for the big moments at the end of the Vegas/Joker two-parter between them and the drama in the second season finale.
Kris - [plekopleko at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Wed, Dec 24, 2008 3:12:41 pm EST from 69.17.187.216

No one's listed the Claymation Christmas Special yet. Probably the tamest thing Will Vinton ever did with clay, but still a worthy display of his demented genius.

Rebel: I like your logic. Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Well, I'll just waltz on down to the Free Present Store! You think I have money to buy all that?" -Santa Claus ("Aqua Teen Hunger Force")
posted @ Wed, Dec 24, 2008 12:49:33 pm EST from 76.27.174.85

Well, maybe I'm just weird, but I have often gotten gifts for people I don't like or who I have mixed feelings towards. Sometimes it's in MY best interests to do so.
Rebel
posted @ Wed, Dec 24, 2008 12:42:55 pm EST from 65.6.100.177

I give gifts to people who are my closest friends. I tried giving gifts to people I don't like, in hopes they would change their opinion of me, but it never worked. So I stopped.

I was going to give a gift to my boss at work but when I walked into work only 5 minutes late (the first time I was ever late at my new job) he chewed me out for 10 minutes. (traffic was bad).

So I sad to my self, nah. No gift for you. It was jsut going to be a card and $5 for Tim's. Meh.
battle Beast - [Canada]
posted @ Wed, Dec 24, 2008 11:16:49 am EST from 75.152.230.227

Spen > 'Litwolf : You know, I believe you're the only other person I've met who's ever seen "Kindom Hospital".'

Yeah, my mom and I have the DVD set. It was an amusing little series. But we never did finish the finale. Years ago (literally years), we were watching the finale, got tired during the last half hour, turned it off, and never finished it. Now its a joke between us. I just shouted out, 'Kingdom Hospital!' to my mother in the kitchen and she laughed ^_^

Rebel > '"Xanatos is much too calculating to give or recieve anything unless he sees an advantage for himself in it."
Precisely. What I'm suggesting is, Xanatos might see a potential advantage for himself in giving the Gargoyles gifts. Anyway, I'm not married to the idea or anything, I'm just saying it's a possibility. Then again, so is everything.
By the way, have there been any updates that I've missed about the TPB? Where is production at on the remaining issues?;

Actually, when you put it like that, it might make sense for Xanatos to attempt to present the Clan with gifts of some kind. Trying to be all 'look, Im really not a bad guy, I swear'. I could see the Clan opening the gifts and being all suspicious. But I doubt they would do anything in return.

And, so far, there's been no further word on the TPBs. Maybe in early Jan, Greg W will be able to give us a progress report?
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Wed, Dec 24, 2008 8:42:07 am EST from 71.206.9.183

On the topic of getting someone you don't like a present. I don't see why anyone would, unless they have a family member they can't stand that they feel inclined to get a gift for.

Heck this year me and my friends didn't even get each other presents since we're all kinda low on money for various reasons. I only got presents for my parents, my grandma, and a girl I like at work.
Ozzie Arcane - [ozziearcane at yahoo dot com]
"Hello Booby! This is a trap!" - Eggplant Wizard
posted @ Wed, Dec 24, 2008 8:26:52 am EST from 69.14.122.91

I gave my boss a $15 Target's gift card. And I don't even like her all that much.

Okay, so I was stuck with her for Secret Santa at work, but still.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Wed, Dec 24, 2008 7:03:51 am EST from 69.223.190.54

Just wanted to wish everyone Happy Hanukkah and Merry Christmas!

And I have gifted to people I had mixed feelings of, usually because it was at work. I got gifts for everyone. Depending on the worplace...how many employees, I'd budget myself. If I was friends with/liked my boss, they'd get the best gift. If my boss was just okay or I didn't like them, they wouldn't get a better gift than anyone else. Same goes with employees, my friends got nicer gifts...everyone else got a little datebook, or something else inexpensive. Or what I found best to do was I would bake. Those I liked got the best of my baking. Those I didn't, got the rejects ;)
Siren - [Click my name for a holiday video :D]
posted @ Wed, Dec 24, 2008 5:10:03 am EST from 72.188.139.212

Litwolf : You know, I believe you're the only other person I've met who's ever seen "Kindom Hospital".

Rebel : "Haven't you guys ever bought a gift for someone who you didn't really like, or who your feelings were very mixed towards?" Yep. Every time I get my sister something. :) Seriously, no.
Spen
"Aside from that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"
posted @ Wed, Dec 24, 2008 4:22:41 am EST from 66.43.205.110

Greg B.> " Except for that awesome "South Park" Christmas special with the Woodland Critters. That was gold."

You're damn right. It's an absolute classic.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Wed, Dec 24, 2008 1:06:53 am EST from 69.223.190.54

Oh, God, now I feel really stupid. "Allies" clearly wasn't even the right word for my brain to spit out; I was trying to get in something with only a touch of positive connotation, and pretty much failed. Maybe I should have said "roomates" or something. :>

But, sometimes a gift is just a gift. There's no reason that Christmas gifts would involve any kind of play or politics or any significance, hence it's out for it to happen between the gargoyles and the Xanatoses.

Xmas> No, I don't like Christmas stuff either, unless it's a) Freaky or b) a good showcase for characters I like. My favourite specials and movies fall under those categories.
Incisivis - [incisivis at hotmail dot com]
"No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream" -- Shirley Jackson
posted @ Wed, Dec 24, 2008 1:05:10 am EST from 216.36.154.204

"Xanatos is much too calculating to give or recieve anything unless he sees an advantage for himself in it."

Precisely. What I'm suggesting is, Xanatos might see a potential advantage for himself in giving the Gargoyles gifts. Anyway, I'm not married to the idea or anything, I'm just saying it's a possibility. Then again, so is everything.

By the way, have there been any updates that I've missed about the TPB? Where is production at on the remaining issues?
Rebel
posted @ Wed, Dec 24, 2008 12:42:11 am EST from 65.6.100.177

Call me a cheap bastard, but if I don't really like someone, I don't give them gifts. Sorry, just the way I am.

And I'd rather not see the gargoyles and everyone have a nice Christmas moment with their enemies, or their ambiguous hosts any time soon.

I usually don't like Christmas specials. Except for that awesome "South Park" Christmas special with the Woodland Critters. That was gold.

Yeah, yeah, call me Scrooge if you want.

;)
Greg Bishansky
Did you ever notice, the only one in A Christmas Carol with any character is Scrooge? Marley is a whiner who fucked over the world and then hadn't the spine to pay his dues quietly; Belle, Scrooge's ex-girlfriend, deserted him when he needed her most; Bob Cratchit is a gutless toady without enough get-up-and-go to assert himself; and the less said about that little treacle-mouth, Tiny Tim, the better.
posted @ Wed, Dec 24, 2008 12:18:22 am EST from 24.205.39.101

Rebel "Haven't you guys ever bought a gift for someone who you didn't really like, or who your feelings were very mixed towards?"

Nope. If I dont like them, they dont get a gift. Simple as that ^_^

And I dont know if I would really count 'Possessions' as a gift from Xanatos. More like a debt repaid for saving his son. A gift is given not because of something done and not in expectation of recieving anything. As Antubus on Kingdom Hospital said, "I do you a solid, you do me a solid. Thats the way it works." Xanatos is much too calculating to give or recieve anything unless he sees an advantage for himself in it.
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Wed, Dec 24, 2008 12:13:44 am EST from 71.206.9.183

Rebel: I don't see that as a gift. He's repaying him for saving his son, yes, but it's not a real gift. He's just making sure he doesn't owe Goliath anything. :P
D. Taina
"The story is told -- though who can say if it be true..." -Shari
posted @ Wed, Dec 24, 2008 12:07:26 am EST from 74.213.121.140

D. Taina > That's not at all what I was talking about...

Look at "Possessions". Xanatos gives Goliath a gift in the form of removing the excess souls from his brother. But it also served some ends for Xanatos himself. That sort of thing.
Rebel
posted @ Wed, Dec 24, 2008 12:01:29 am EST from 65.6.100.177

Rebel> <<Haven't you guys ever bought a gift for someone who you didn't really like, or who your feelings were very mixed towards?>>

Uh.... no.
Greg Bishansky
"Do you want to know why I use a knife? Guns are too quick. You can't savor all of the…little…emotions. You see, in their…last moments, people show you who they really are. So in a way…I knew your friends better than you ever did. Would you like to know which of them were cowards?" -The Joker
posted @ Tue, Dec 23, 2008 11:58:15 pm EST from 24.205.39.101

Rebel: I can't really picture Xanatos lovingly gift-wrapping a present for Goliath. ;)
D. Taina
"The story is told -- though who can say if it be true..." -Shari
posted @ Tue, Dec 23, 2008 11:57:27 pm EST from 74.213.121.140

No, I wasn't talking about the TGC versions of the characters. Just because we do not have identical interpretations of the characters doesn't mean I am wrong.

Anyway, the fact that the Xanatos family is not friends (or even allies) of the Manhattan clan doesn't preclude the possibility of gifting. Haven't you guys ever bought a gift for someone who you didn't really like, or who your feelings were very mixed towards? Xanatos' feelings towards the Gargoyles are probably pretty complicated at this point. On the one hand, they saved Alexander and the world, and on the other hand, they are continually foiling his plans. I'm not sure what his plans are at this point when it comes to the Gargoyles, but gifting could potentially fulfill a self-serving purpose. Or it could be a genuine effort to win their trust (...for some later nefarious purpose).

I'm not saying I THINK it's going to happen. I'm saying it's a possibility, and could lead to awkwardness, suspicion, and new seeds being sewn for future stories (not that we don't have enough...).
Rebel
posted @ Tue, Dec 23, 2008 11:55:48 pm EST from 65.6.100.177

Incisivis> I think Rebel is talking about the Goliath Chronicles versions of the characters. In which case, yes, the Xanatos family are friends.

But I think allies is the wrong term for Xanatos and his family in Weisman version. The word Greg used in GargWiki when he edited Xanatos's entry a few months ago was "...host."

And remember, this is the guy who last we saw unleashed Coldsteel, Coyote, a Steel Clan and an Iron Clan robot on Hudson and Lex.
Greg Bishansky
"Do you want to know why I use a knife? Guns are too quick. You can't savor all of the…little…emotions. You see, in their…last moments, people show you who they really are. So in a way…I knew your friends better than you ever did. Would you like to know which of them were cowards?" -The Joker
posted @ Tue, Dec 23, 2008 11:36:32 pm EST from 24.205.39.101

Gargoyles> No, I can't see them celebrating Christmas even in the secular fashion, but certainly in being curious about it and what it constitutes. Probably a good story could be wrangled out of it if Greg ever feels inclined to do a Christmas special.

If anyone was to give them gifts, I could picture Elisa doing it, maybe. For the Xanatoses that seems too...forward. Or maybe even too friendly. Remember, they're allies, but Xanatos's status is ambigious.

RGB> It's rumoured that the point of Dave Coulier taking over as the toon!Venkman was to make him sound more like Bill Murray - but I always preferred Music. He had a wry delivery, while Coulier sounded a bit too dopey in comparison, even if the actual personality was much the same.

I have to see more of Buster Jones as Winston before I determine if I prefer him to Arsenio Hall or not.

Christmas Specials> I've posted twice and I keep forgetting to mention: "The Most Horrible X-Mas Ever" from Invader Zim. They don't get much more manic and demented than that. ;D

"Comfort and Joy" I saw before the Ghostbusters Christmas episode, and it was the first time I became convinced that an action series could do a Christmas special and have it turn out really good.

(though for me, the highlight is the interaction between Green Lantern and Hawkgirl. They're one of my favourite fictional couples, and Shayera is one of my all-time favourite characters)
Incisivis - [incisivis at hotmail dot com]
"No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream" -- Shirley Jackson
posted @ Tue, Dec 23, 2008 11:18:14 pm EST from 216.36.154.204

The Gathering is in August? Wow...and it's only two weeks after my birthday... I need to figure out I'm going to attend (it'll be my first if I can go)...and quick!
The One Known As Mochi - [shogi dot keima dot 08 at gmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>^^)>[] $100 gift card in hand...
posted @ Tue, Dec 23, 2008 10:11:01 pm EST from 209.247.78.54

Gathering 2009: It's in August?! Isn't it usually in June? That sucks, 'cause I've been saving up money for the past 6 months to go (for my first time too; I was really excited), and now I can't go 'cause it starts when I'm in school. And on my birthday too. Man....
Charisma82
Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies.
posted @ Tue, Dec 23, 2008 8:45:00 pm EST from 64.13.117.74

I suspect that the Manhattan clan, particularly the younger members, probably WOULD celebrate Christmas. Maybe not all-out like humans do, but at least somewhat. I mean, I doubt they'd give each other gifts...where would they get the money to do so? Plus, Gargoyles don't seem to care that much about material goods. I could see Broadway and Angela exchanging small, thoughtful, emotionally significant gifts. Maybe even Goliath and Elisa, though that seems less likely. Also, I don't think they'd celebrate it in the religious sense, but in the secular sense. The secular meaning of Christmas is very different from the religious meaning. The secular meaning is more like a celebration of family and friends and being together. I can imagine that this is something the Gargoyles would really appreciate.

I'm sure some of you will disagree, but I could actually see the Xanatos family getting some gifts for the clan. This may sound strange, but I could SO easily see them getting Lex his own computer, or getting Broadway a set of DVDs for some kind of crimefighter or detective. Things like that. The clan's reaction to this would probably be mixed. I imagine Broadway and Lex would be appreciative, but Brooklyn, Hudson, Goliath, and Angela would be suspicious.

Anyway, they (especially the younger members) seem to have embraced Halloween, so I don't think it's much of a stretch that they might start to celebrate Christmas (again, NOT in the religious sense, but in the secular sense).

Whatever they'd do, it wouldn't be cheesy and unrealistic. I mean obviously they wouldn't gather around the tree and sing carols while holding hands. But I could see them enjoying the holiday and getting into the (secular) spirit of it.
Rebel
posted @ Tue, Dec 23, 2008 8:29:25 pm EST from 65.6.100.177

Gathering 2009: I do think I'll finally be able to attend a Gathering, as that's the week before my senior year in college begins . . . I guess I'll finally have some incentive to move in early this year. Of course, my school's not really "near" Universal City, but hey, its close enough :D

Wingless: I love all those Rankin/Bass films as well, but you did forget perhaps my favorite of the lot: Jack Frost.

I'm just a sucker for that film, and having saw it on DVD at the store recently, I immediately put on my wishlist. I don't know if its the Kapootnik coin system (1/100ths of a cent), the mechanical monkey side-kick, or the Groundhog-voiced-by-Buddy-Hackett, but the film makes me smile every year.
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Tue, Dec 23, 2008 7:07:50 pm EST from 68.98.115.219

Todd: RG episodes were called "When Halloween Was Forever" Episode 008 Production #75010 from 1986
"Xmas Marks The Spot" Episode 013 Production #75013 from 1986
Syndicated episodes went from 014-078
Wingless
Recovering from surgery
posted @ Tue, Dec 23, 2008 6:53:28 pm EST from 99.245.254.123

WINGLESS - I'd also noticed how different the tone of the syndicated episodes was from that of the ABC episodes. But the first season of the ABC episodes did produce both the "Christmas Carol" episode that we were discussing earlier, and the episode featuring Samhain (the embodiment of Halloween), which had a great ending: the Ghostbusters, after trapping Samhain, are expecting him to be raging over his defeat, but when they peek into the containment unit, see him merely sitting in an out-of-the-way area, waiting for the time of his release, just as he had waited during his last imprisonment, with a tone of "I'll outlast you and your containment unit".

I remember a crossover fanfic between "The Real Ghostbusters" and "Gargoyles", an AU treatment of Hakon's ghost showing up in New York (written before "Vendettas" first aired); my favorite part had the yuppies encountering Hakon's ghost, followed by Margot crying "That's it, Brendan! That's the last straw! We are moving to Connecticut!"
Todd Jensen
www.gunnerkrigg.com/index2.php
posted @ Tue, Dec 23, 2008 6:36:30 pm EST from 4.244.210.166

Jennifer Anderson> "KingCobra - As soon as Motel 6 starts making convention facilities big enough for us, we'll consider having conventions there. ;)"

Sounds like a plan. Don't suppose there's any close enough to the convention to save on gas. Right?
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Tue, Dec 23, 2008 5:44:47 pm EST from 69.223.190.54

Incisivis - well, "Slimer & the Real Ghostbusters wasn't all bad" it had a real episode of the show, paired with the cheapened "Slimer" segments in between.

As for changes in the show - I didn't like the Janine change either - but the one that bugged me the most is losing Lorenzo Music as Peter. Some didn't like him in the role, but I really did.

As for Justice League "Comfort & Joy" - I really loved the episode - in particular Clark trying to get J'onn to understand what the Christmas season was about. I'm a sucker for sentiment.

Other kind of Oddball christmas specials that I like(some you never see anymore):
Ziggy's special gift
A Cosmic Christmas - one of Nelvana's first projects (Circa 1977)
B.C. A Special Christmas
Opus & Bill's - A Wish For Wings That Work (with a nickname like Wingless you know I'd have to like this one ^_^)-one of the most bizarre christmas stories ever "I became....an Aeronautic vigilante!"
All of the Rankin Bass Specials-"T'was The Night Before Christmas", "Year Without A Santa Claus", "Little Drummer Boy", "Santa Claus Is Coming To Town", "Frosty", "Frosty's Winter Wonderland", aaand gotta love Rudolph - specially since it has roots in Canada! - many of the voice actors are Canadian in that classic (If you've seen the classic 1967 Spiderman series-many of the very same voice people!)
The Pink Panther - A Pink Christmas
Olive-the other Reindeer-(one of the more recent efforts, from the people that gave us the simpsons & futurama!)
Dare I even forget the Grinch and A Charlie Brown Christmas. Must sees every year.
Wingless
Recovering from surgery
posted @ Tue, Dec 23, 2008 5:14:39 pm EST from 99.245.254.123

Speaking of Christmas Specials, here The Nostalgia Critic's top twelve Christmas Special list:

http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/thatguywiththeglasses/nostalgia-critic/3226-top-12-greatest-christmas-specials

BTW, Greg B, I recommend you check out his review on Captain Planet if you haven't already. It's even funnier than the fanmade video where Ma-Ti is kicked off the team.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Tue, Dec 23, 2008 4:52:52 pm EST from 71.120.226.102

Incisivis> I enjoy Comfort and Joy for that reason, plus:
- A chance to see the League when they are attending their private lives or have time off. Favorite moments include:
- Clark's insistence that Santa brings and wraps the presents (though who can say whether he exists in the DCAU or not), and trying to peek at his present only to find out it's wrapped in lead.
- DJ Ducky reciting the Nutcracker.
- The Ultra Humanite getting that plastic tree in his cell.

Another Christmas special I enjoy:

Kim Possible- A Very Possible Christmas: I found it to be a very good heartwarming episode. Ron's big gift was actually in the spirit of Christmas (helping Kim to have time for her family). The mistletoe/parsely kiss at the end was a plus (Kim and Ron are one of my favorite animated couples).
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Tue, Dec 23, 2008 4:22:57 pm EST from 71.120.226.102

Incisivis> And "Comfort and Joy" also has Streaky, the super cat (though he's just portrayed as a regular cat so as not to completely derail the episode.)
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Tue, Dec 23, 2008 3:57:12 pm EST from 146.115.115.33

Wingless> Oh, I'm well aware of the extras and the fatastic packaging art for the TRGB set (Firehouse box, yeah!), which is why I'm looking forward to it even more. I can't believe an animated series has all these extras, and I'm glad it was a good one.

I'm really dreading a viewing of the later episodes. I know there were some good ones (mostly related to after JMS came back for a stint), but even reading about "Slimer and the Real Ghostbusters" makes me want to wince. Janine's makeover also rubbed me the wrong way, as it did for JMS and apparently a lot of other people. I'm glad "Janine, You've Changed" makes an attempt to explain it away, but it's still an ugly thing to see.

No offense intended to the excellent Kath Soucie, it's just that I love the Laura Summer Janine and all her attitude and design.
Incisivis - [incisivis at hotmail dot com]
"No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream" -- Shirley Jackson
posted @ Tue, Dec 23, 2008 3:28:04 pm EST from 216.36.154.204

Todd-Real Ghostbusters. One other thing that I learned from having the box set is, much like Gargoyles, The Real Ghostbusters had an interesting situation-as they did the first 13 season episodes for ABC, they were also doing Episodes for Syndication. While with the ABC episodes, they had to deal with B.S. & P. in a big way, they had complete freedom with the syndicated episodes and thus their references could get as obscure as they wanted to - which is how alot of the references you referred to got into the series - via the Syndicated eps. I remember how bizarre it was seeing the eps on ABC, and then on a local Canadian station-seen all these other cool eps I'd never seen before turning up-most of them much better than what I'd been seeing on the ABC eps.

Incisivis: I don't know if you have ever gotten any sets from Time-Life before-but when they dio a box set, they tend to go all out. Their "Get Smart" box is outstanding, just the quality of the packaging for the Ghostbusters-with the 5 painted metal inner boxes will blow you away. Incidently, they are planning on releasing the boxes separately starting in March.

Something to dream about-having Time-Life do the Gargoyles series as a box! "sighs" - lets say, and include all the comics them in Trade paperback form.
Wingless
Recovering from surgery
posted @ Tue, Dec 23, 2008 2:51:33 pm EST from 99.245.254.123

STARLIONESS -- Actually, I've got the three volumes of the Young Studio's remake of He-Man, and it really isn't confirmed that their version of Queen Marlena is a full-blooded Eternian. For all intents, they haven't explictly stated her origins, so for all we know she may still be as she was depicted in the original series; an Earth astronaut, who crashed-landed on Eternia and was taken in by a still-newly crowned King Randor and evetually becomes his queen.
Stephen Sobotka
posted @ Tue, Dec 23, 2008 1:37:52 pm EST from 71.101.20.62

Vicky82 - Universal Studios, Hollywood is the original studio back lot tour.

I'm really pleased that the Gathering was able to get such a great hotel for such a great price. CityWalk (a huge outdoor mall) is right next door and the Metro Red Line is right at the bottom of the hill with a 5 minute ride to Hollywood and Vine if you want to see the Hollywood sign, Walk of Fame or Mann's Chinese Theater.

KingCobra - As soon as Motel 6 starts making convention facilities big enough for us, we'll consider having conventions there. ;)
Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson
"Some people juggle geese!" - Wash, Firefly
posted @ Tue, Dec 23, 2008 12:53:45 pm EST from 76.174.154.162

Yuuugh. Not even touching the He-Man/She-Ra Christmas special.

The Real Ghostbusters was a wonderful show, and I'm getting that set for Christmas no problem. It looks like a lot of effort was put into it, and I can't wait.

I don't have many TV Christmas favourites, but I'm surprised nobody's mentioned Justice League's second season episode, "Comfort and Joy" yet. It's heartwarming without being too sugary, and intelligent and understated in the bargain.
Incisivis - [incisivis at hotmail dot com]
"No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream" -- Shirley Jackson
posted @ Tue, Dec 23, 2008 12:14:09 pm EST from 216.36.154.204

Wow, the location the hotel is in is great and Universal Studios, I thought that was only in Florida I was almost late for work looking at the hotel. Hopefully I'll book up and the flight after Christmas.
vicky82
posted @ Tue, Dec 23, 2008 11:28:09 am EST from 194.129.65.74

I remember both the He-man/She-ra Christmas special and the Ghostbusters episode. Honestly, I just remember how silly, even as a kid, the set up for this was and how Skeletor did not like being in the Christmas spirit, even before I saw the clip. That part is still funny. Of the two, I liked the Real Ghostbusters episode more, it was better executed, even if the guys' attempts to play the ghosts were pretty silly and close to ineffectual. I need to find that one and watch it again.
Asatira
posted @ Tue, Dec 23, 2008 10:57:28 am EST from 68.190.20.172

Todd> That and the fact that Frank Welker voices Bronx (and others) on "Gargoyles" and also does Slimer (and others) on "The Real Ghostbusters." And Kath Soucie was the second voice of Janine. No one else in the IMDB cast list jumps out at me as having been on both shows. But they also have the common trait of being quite good.

I'll be enjoying that Time Life box set just as soon as my husband opens his Christmas presents.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Tue, Dec 23, 2008 10:51:54 am EST from 146.115.115.33

Gathering 2009> Nice touch on the site. I like the 'comic book feel' of it.

The hotel's $159 a night? Damn. Looks like VidTheKid and I may be Motel 6-ing it again.

Good location, though. Never been to Universal Studios park.

Off-topic> Dunno how much time I'll spend online in the next couple of days. Happy Holidays, everyone.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Tue, Dec 23, 2008 10:41:40 am EST from 69.223.190.54

WINGLESS - I remember that episode of "The Real Ghostbusters". It even included some of the actual lines from Dickens - particularly Scrooge's scepticism of the ghosts, thinking that they might have been just a hallucination triggered by indigestion, with the remark of "more of gravy than of grave" about them (though in the book, he says that about Marley's ghost rather than the three Spirits of Christmas).

"The Real Ghostbusters" had one thing in common with "Gargoyles": it used a lot of "real" legendary figures (Marduk and Tiamat from Babylonian mythology, Proteus and the Three Fates from Greek myth, Valkyries from Norse mythology, Sir Breuse sans Pitie from Arthurian legend, Casey Jones from American folklore, the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, even, from more recent times, H. P. Lovecraft's Cthulhu). Not to mention (as I've said before) that it did a vampire episode once that seemed almost a forerunner of the Hunters versus the gargoyles; the vampire in the story is portrayed as a peaceful, gentlemanly character who drinks artificial blood, and his opponent Van Heldun (portrayed as coming from a family that had inspired Van Helsing in "Dracula") as a dangerous Castaway-like fanatic (his attempt to slay the vampire in his coffin appears as cowardly as - well, as smashing a gargoyle in stone sleep).
Todd Jensen
www.gunnerkrigg.com/index2.php
posted @ Tue, Dec 23, 2008 8:02:27 am EST from 4.244.214.170

Lots of updates on the Gathering of the Gargoyles web site. Click below for the link (you may need to refresh your browser if the old pages are cached).

Just in time for Christmas, the convention now has a confirmed date, a fabulous hotel located near many restaurants and major attractions, the first two of many confirmed guests, and a brand new online forum! We're also extending early registration through the month of January to give everyone more time to take advantage of current membership prices.

A copy of the newsletter that just went out to the updates mailing list can be read here:

http://community.livejournal.com/gargoyle_clan/90316.html

And the Gathering 2009 web site is located at:

http://www.gatheringofthegargoyles.com/g2009/
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2009]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Tue, Dec 23, 2008 7:02:55 am EST from 76.205.89.131

Hmmm. I never saw the He-Man Christmas Episode, maybe now is a good time. It is a special on the Movie-DVD-Set I have, the animated movie. I prefer the New Adventures of He-Man over the older series, but I'm a sucker for the movie.

All those nice 70s and 80s series aren't so bad, when you watch them with humour and preferably like-minded friends., so I have to confess that, due to the voices, Thundercats is particularly difficult to watch, unfortunately there is no German DVD set out.
And I need to get another DVD-ROM so I can watch my Australian Transformers DVD set with all season.

Ah, tommorrow is the big evening, presents to be gotten. I should find Les Maîtres du Temps in Santa's sack, a great French movie (although my version will be German).
Anonymous
posted @ Tue, Dec 23, 2008 4:59:50 am EST from 89.246.195.225

Skeletor and Christmas>It too 20 years and $100s in psychiatry bills to make me forget that and you just threw that all away on me Greg B. I am ashamed of you. You owe me back my 20 years, plus the minute to watch that and the money in my shrink bills for that one.
Siren
posted @ Tue, Dec 23, 2008 3:11:12 am EST from 72.188.139.212

All this talk about Festivus makes me feel obliged to let those who may not know that Festivus is, actually, tomorrow (or today, according to the time).

Yeah, I'm that much of a Seinfeld fan to know that Festivus is celebrated on the 23rd (That, or I've just seen the episode "The Strike" way too many times, but I lean towards the former).

So, anyways . . . .

**Pulls out silver pole from CR closet (wow, we actually had one in there? Sweet . . .) and puts in the corner of the room**

Happy Festivus, everyone! ;)
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Tue, Dec 23, 2008 3:07:03 am EST from 68.98.115.219

He Man/She Ra Christmas Special >> OMG... O...M...G... There aren't any words to express what I saw in that YouTube video...

Festivus >> Now that's a holiday!

Now I'll go lie down under the cookie table in a fetal position until I get that YT video out of my head...
The One Known As Mochi - [shogi dot keima dot 08 at gmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>^^)>[] $100 gift card in hand...
posted @ Tue, Dec 23, 2008 1:45:43 am EST from 72.220.179.8

Heh, I need to buy that massive The Real Ghostbusters: The Complete Series set eventually. There are some episodes in there that're gold. As a kid, sometimes some of that stuff was even creepy. Too bad the animation got more childish and so did the stories, later on.

Greg B. mentioned earlier that perhaps the trades for Bad Guys and Clan Building Volume 2 will be out in January and February, but that's very unlikely given the way comic book release schedules work. We may see the solicitations/advertisements for them in those months, so we can pre-order them, but Slave Labor Graphics would definitely wanna announce them at least a couple months in advance of their releases. Earliest we'll see either trade is March, I'm guessing. We'll find out with January and February's Previews catalogues/order forms.

Re: Christmas Specials
I've never seen He-Man's although I suppose I will eventually if I get around to maybe buying the complete series on DVD some day. I was always fine with He-Man's mother being from Earth, that wasn't a bad flashback/backstory (the series seemed to do well with stories about mothers, the two involving Teela & The Sorceress were some of the better He-Man efforts). It's a shame to hear they lost that detail from the 2002 series. Actually I'd way rather finally see the apparently decent 2002 series than re-visit the original again (my sister bought the 10 Best Episodes Of releases of He-Man and She-Ra. It was fun for the nostalgia, but I dunno if I could watch a couple hundred to complete the franchise, despite probably having missed a lot when I was a kid).
Kris - [plekopleko at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Tue, Dec 23, 2008 1:39:25 am EST from 69.17.187.216

Sorry for the double post

Starlioness - Animated adaptations of "A Christmas Carol". The Real Ghostbusters one was rather unique. The Ghostbusters are sent back in time (unbeknown-st to them) and trap the ghosts of past, present & future). Once returning to their oun time, they find christmas doesn't exist-because scrooge has written a book that has turned people against the celebration. Trapped in the containment unit, Egon has to free the 3 ghosts while the other Ghostbusters have to travel back in time and somehow impersonate the ghosts to convince Scrooge of his wrongs - just in case Egon fails. It actually is better than it sounds-but the series was one of my fave from the '80s (hugs his Time-life series box set)
Wingless
Recovering from surgery
posted @ Tue, Dec 23, 2008 12:42:18 am EST from 99.245.254.123

In reference to the He Man/She Ra Christmas Special. For those actually wanting to watch it - if you're living in Canada, it will be airing again on YTV Wednesday-Christmas Eve at 8 PM Eastern - right after "Santa Claus Is Coming to Town" (gotta love the contrast)
Wingless
Recovering from surgery
posted @ Tue, Dec 23, 2008 12:33:48 am EST from 99.245.254.123

Greg B:hmm..I should learn more about this Festivus holiday.. sounds like the true meaning of the holiday season ;)..

Christmas Specials.. ergh,yeah that He-man and She-ra Xmas special always leaves a bad taste in my mouth.. I think the only reason they had the damn thing was (A)to get She-ra back on Eternia.. and (B) promote the hell out of both shows.. gah, I hate Mattel sometimes.. or whosever Idea it was for that..

at least in the 2002 re-make they had Marlena as a full Eternian in that one..

and the whole reason those dumb kids were there in the first was because Orko the court jester stowed away on Man-at-arms sky-rocket thingy..

ergh.. and the Skeletor being nice.. yuck infinity.. I'd hate for Demona or Xanatos to be that sappy..

I guess I shouldn't whine too much about Filmation though... Disney's done some crappy Holiday stories too.. like Belle's Enchanted Christmas DTV movie, Lion King's Brightest Star Read-Along storybook with tape (inspired by the Star of Bethlehem or something).. a Little Mermaid and Pocahontas read-alongs I never read.. but I know they exist somewhere.. actually I wonder what the Pocahontas one was like..(probably Poca celebrating the winter season before those settlers showed up).. I don't know how'd they'd handle something like Aladdin or Hercules though..

However, in Emperor's new School Kuzco and company celebrate Giftmas and Papa Santos so I dunno..

but seriously If see another cartoon episode,special..inspired by the Christmas Carol.. *explodes*..
Starlioness
posted @ Tue, Dec 23, 2008 12:20:20 am EST from 24.18.243.70

I'm such a hypocrite posting Spectacular Spider-Man news here in the Gargoyles CR, but I figured since there isn't a Spectacular Spider-Man CR yet, here ya go...

The Spectacular Spider-Man Season 2 Episode List:
http://www.tv.com/the-spectacular-spider-man/show/70251/episode.html
The Gargoyles Pulse
~ Tony Tini
posted @ Mon, Dec 22, 2008 10:56:15 pm EST from 70.15.84.29

Todd: Well, if its their TGC counterparts, then I think they'd be safely incompetant.

My curiosity though, comes with what happened to Goliath's beef with Egon Pax & Margot Yale . . . THEY should have been forced to pin ol' G.
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Mon, Dec 22, 2008 10:14:51 pm EST from 68.98.115.219

Matt: You mean they didn't have this quality BEFORE the comic?
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Your tongues can't repel flavor of that magnitude!" -Admiral Ackbar
posted @ Mon, Dec 22, 2008 10:07:39 pm EST from 76.27.174.85

Too bad that Goliath didn't get to critique the Quarrymen and Castaway's portrayal in the Goliath Chronicles (but I don't think their presence at the Festivus occasion would be a good idea).
Todd Jensen
www.gunnerkrigg.com/index2.php
posted @ Mon, Dec 22, 2008 9:56:05 pm EST from 4.244.212.27

Greg B has illustrated why the SLG comics were the best thing to ever happen to TGC... Now that we have a proper third season, it makes us go back and appreciate what value there is in TGC. It's oppurtunities for satire and MST3King are endless.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
Jesus Loves You... but I'm still his favorite.
posted @ Mon, Dec 22, 2008 7:10:41 pm EST from 70.237.193.238

We know that Greg Weisman had planned a story involving Santa Claus at some point. (Though I suppose we'll have to wait until Slave Labor Graphics gets the go-ahead from Disney for a series of graphic novels to learn more about it.)

Let's just be glad that we never saw Bronx being made to wear one of those reindeer antler headpieces that you see being made for dogs and cats. (Though I don't think that anyone who tried getting him to wear one would have survived.)
Todd Jensen
www.gunnerkrigg.com/index2.php
posted @ Mon, Dec 22, 2008 6:57:02 pm EST from 4.244.212.27

As long as the Gargoyles don't celebrate "Life Day" like the wookiees do, then I'll be happy.
The Gargoyles Pulse
~ Tony Tini
posted @ Mon, Dec 22, 2008 6:50:33 pm EST from 70.15.84.29

LOL!! That Festivus/Goliath Chronicles thing was hilarious Greg.

Though to be fair, Goliath didn't make any further moves on Elisa either.
Purplegoldfish
posted @ Mon, Dec 22, 2008 6:46:24 pm EST from 64.148.56.178

Patrick> Speaking of the whole worlds celebrating Christmas that shouldn't, I hear Flintstones mentioned among those shows. But I'ver jokingly assumed that their world had a Jesus Christone. Any agreements?
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Mon, Dec 22, 2008 6:38:19 pm EST from 71.120.226.102

Mochi - yep, He-Man & She Ra christmas episode. It just aired in Canada on YTV about a week ago.
Incidently, for those interested in He-Man on DVD, BCI-the company that has been putting out just amazing packages of the He-Man, She-Ra and other Filmation packages is being shut down by their parent company. For more details-click my name for the story from tvshowsondvd.com
Wingless
posted @ Mon, Dec 22, 2008 6:35:58 pm EST from 99.245.254.123

Not that "A He-man and She-Ra Christmas" doesn't have problems and make eyeballs bleed, but there is a semi-logical explanation to why there's a Christmas celebration on Eternia. Two Earth kids end up on Eternia for reasons I can't recall. It's close to Christmas and since there's the added fact that Adam and Adora's mother Queen Marlena is originally from Earth (having been an astronaut who ended up on Eternia and eventually married King Randor), the people of Eternia decide to give Christmas a try. Is it a great explanation? No. But it's *an* explanation, which is more than you get from some TV shows which have a Christmas episode for no apparent logical reason.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Mon, Dec 22, 2008 6:32:15 pm EST from 146.115.115.33

Mochi> In that case, brace yourself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5Ck2f5WGP0

I am not responsible for the contents of that video.
Greg Bishansky
"Do you want to know why I use a knife? Guns are too quick. You can't savor all of the…little…emotions. You see, in their…last moments, people show you who they really are. So in a way…I knew your friends better than you ever did. Would you like to know which of them were cowards?" -The Joker
posted @ Mon, Dec 22, 2008 6:05:11 pm EST from 24.205.39.101

A He-Man Christmas episode...?!

Can someone check if hell froze over just now... My eyes might start to bleed if a He-Man episode like that is made...
The One Known As Mochi - [shogi dot keima dot 08 at gmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>^^)>[] $100 gift card in hand...
posted @ Mon, Dec 22, 2008 6:02:46 pm EST from 209.247.78.54

At least a Gargoyles Christmas episode would make more sense than the He-Man Christmas episode. There's a Christian holiday on a planet at the center of the universe? O RLY? ^O.0^
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2009]
"Sleigh bells ring, are you listening? I don't think you're listening. I could have used... more sleighbell." - (Christopher) Walken in a Winter Wonderland
posted @ Mon, Dec 22, 2008 5:36:16 pm EST from 76.205.89.131

Greg B> Makes the Goliath Chronicles worthwhile when we can get satire out of that.

Speaking of which, here's a serious attempt by someone at making Ransom more credible. That is if you believe Xanatos would risk Alex's safety (In other words out of character):

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/189586/1/Aft_AGley
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Mon, Dec 22, 2008 5:29:13 pm EST from 71.120.226.102

"But, I say that if we must give the gargoyles a holiday, let us give them Festivus. I believe it's right up their alley.

I think I might adopt that holiday myself."

GregX: Oh you should definitely give it a shot. A friend of mine share our own annual airing of grievances, and I must say, it brings such a wonderful feeling ;P

Great bit of "A TGC Festivus", by the way :)
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Mon, Dec 22, 2008 4:50:12 pm EST from 68.98.115.219

If you ask me the clan should celebrate my personal holiday, the Holy Feast of The Bisexual Mongoose. That's right, I made up my own holiday.
Algernon
Remember, Jesus loves you, but everyone else thinks you're a jerk!
posted @ Mon, Dec 22, 2008 3:57:18 pm EST from 86.41.218.209

GregX: Bwahah! That was great! And the best part is that it's all true! My favorite part was the ending. Long live Festivus!
D. Taina
"The story is told -- though who can say if it be true..." -Shari
posted @ Mon, Dec 22, 2008 3:46:15 pm EST from 74.213.121.140

Sorry for the double post, but just thinking about the gargoyles celebrating Festivus. It got tough when I got to how they would handle the annual airing of grievances. Basically, gathering the whole family around to tell them all the ways they have disappointed you over the past year (the head of the household does it). And... it works better if it's Goliath from "The Goliath Chronicles".

Goliath: I have got a lot of problems with you, and now you're going to hear about it!

Lexington! Who told you to hand yourself over to that crooked politician! I specifically ordered you not to? Beside that, this is Xanatos, would you not believe he has at least twenty contingency plans?

Xanatos: Actually, Lexington handing himself over was Plan A. Fox whining and crying like that was all an act to get Lexington to do that. She's quite an actress, I would have never married her if she was actually such a wimp.

Goliath: Quiet, Xanatos. You'll get yours in a moment.

Brooklyn, just because Broadway is getting laid and you're not was no excuse to run off like that. Did... did that man who captured you have leprosy or something. If it were Demona, or even Dracon I would have understood. But that pathetic excuse for a villain of the week? What happened to our rogues' gallery?

Broadway. You trusted Fox of all people to fly you off to Los Angeles? You know, Larry King is broadcasted from here in New York.

Broadway: But, Goliath. Larry King smells like bad onions!

Goliath: Hudson. I'm glad your eye is okay now.

Hudson: Thank you, lad.

Goliath: Angela! What have I told you about trusting Demona?!

Angela: You told me that I would be better off trusting a man in bad clown make up asking me if I wanted to know how he got his scars.

Goliath: Exactly. Speaking of which, why did you invite her?

Demona: Because she trusts me, even when I team up with Quarrymen and invisible assassins to kill you.

Goliath: Never trust your mother. Now, Xanatos! I know you're up to something. Your behavior over the last year has been uncharacteristically benign, and I will find out what you're up to!

Elisa: Is it my turn yet?

Goliath: Elisa! You kissed me after the Hunter's Moon, we had one date afterward. Then you suddenly seemed to forget all that happened and started treating me like we're just friends again. Why? What did I do? Is it my breath? I... I.. I thought we had something. Elisa, why are you doing this to me.

Brooklyn: Wow... awkward.

Goliath: And now, it is time for the Festivus Feats of Strength. This year, the honor goes to Lexington. Until you pin me, Festivus isn't over.

::Suddenly the door bursts open and Thailog enters::

Thailog: Did you really believe I allowed myself to be permanently petrified? It was all part of my scheme to get you where you are now. And now, Goliath, I am bringing you a Christmas present.

::Thailog walks up to Goliath and stabs him in the gut. Goliath keels over in pain::

Lexington: What the hell was that?

Thailog: You want Elisa, she's yours. She's going to see you laying there dying, and realize just how much you mean to her. This is my one good deed. My one fun good deed as I do enjoy watching you suffer. Ta ta.

::Thailog leaves::

Elisa: Goliath, I'm sorry but, we really should see other people.
Greg Bishansky
"Do you want to know why I use a knife? Guns are too quick. You can't savor all of the…little…emotions. You see, in their…last moments, people show you who they really are. So in a way…I knew your friends better than you ever did. Would you like to know which of them were cowards?" -The Joker
posted @ Mon, Dec 22, 2008 3:25:28 pm EST from 24.205.39.101

Well, here's what we've got on what the characters believe.

***

Matt Bluestone is Jewish.

Maria Chavez is Catholic.

Halcyon Renard is a Calvinist.

Petros Xanatos is Greek Orthodox.

I think that Diane Maza is a member of some Protestant Christian sect, but I'd have to do some research to figure out which one.

Peter Maza spent most of his adult life as a dedicated Agnostic. But since "Cloud Fathers" it would be interesting to see how that's changed.

I think Elisa probably has a background in Christianity from her mother, but probably styled her beliefs after her father. Still, I'm quite certain that all the stories her mother told about African myths and legends helped her maintain an open mind.

I think Derek Maza has a more Christian bent. Maggie Reed too.

Beth Maza's more likely to at least attempt to connect back with Carlos Maza's Native American beliefs.

David Xanatos believes... in himself.

Fox believes in David.

***

I'm not saying they wouldn't be curious or interested, but I just don't think they'd celebrate it themselves, and if they did, it would be akin to a Jew at a friend's Christmas party. Nothing more. Nothing less.

But, I say that if we must give the gargoyles a holiday, let us give them Festivus. I believe it's right up their alley.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8g4Ztf7hIM

I think I might adopt that holiday myself.
Greg Bishansky
"Do you want to know why I use a knife? Guns are too quick. You can't savor all of the…little…emotions. You see, in their…last moments, people show you who they really are. So in a way…I knew your friends better than you ever did. Would you like to know which of them were cowards?" -The Joker
posted @ Mon, Dec 22, 2008 2:46:23 pm EST from 24.205.39.101

I'm an Atheist and a German, I celebrate Weihnachten (which gets translated to Christmas in English), just not the religious parts.

What is called Christmas doesn't have to be about Christ and Christanity.
Anonymous
posted @ Mon, Dec 22, 2008 2:14:04 pm EST from 88.130.164.161

Greg B> In addition to Christmas being the most commercial and in your face of the Winter holidays, it's also one of the most secularized, which is one reason that I personally think that some gargoyles (not all) might decide to celebrate it to some degree. After all, the Manhattan Clan does celebrate Halloween, though in a slightly different way and for different reasons than most humans do. I don't expect any clan to necessarily go the whole nine yards with a tree and tons of presents and Santa Claus and gaudy yard decorations and everything. But they might adopt some aspects of the holiday, at least in clans that become particularly close to humans or human culture. I'd imagine whatever traditions the various clans have around the winter solstice are going to be more deeply meaningful to them and will certainly still be practiced, Christmas or no, but that wouldn't necessarily prevent them from enjoying certain aspects of Christmas. And it's worth noting that the Trio and Hudson at least have shown that they are able to appreciat some material goods and the comforts of modern living, so I doubt the idea of gift giving would be impossible for them to grasp.

It's certainly possible that the Maza family doesn't celebrate Christmas, but as I said, it's become a pretty secular holiday in the US at least, which is the main reason I tend to think that they do. My own family isn't very religious at all but we still celebrate Christmas and consider it an important family time. Still, there's no guarantee that the Mazas feel the same way. Maybe they celebrate Christmas. With Diane's strong connection to her Nigerian roots, maybe they celebrate Kwanzaa. Maybe both. Maybe neither. Whatever the case, it hasn't come up in any canon stories yet, so take from that what you will.

Since the search feature for Ask Greg is down, I can't double check this, but I'm pretty sure that Greg has said that Santa Claus exists in the Gargoyles Universe, the revelation of which would probably require a story where somebody we know is celebrating Christmas.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Mon, Dec 22, 2008 2:08:22 pm EST from 146.115.115.33

Greg: Perhaps because it is the most commercialized -- its only inevitable that the Clan will notice the hustle and bustle of the holidays before them and say, Lexington for example, might ask, "Hey Elisa, what's all these trees on top of cars? Where are they taking them? And with with all the twinkling lights?" . . . among other questions.

But I too feel no urge for the clan to celebrate one holiday or the other . . . but I so imagine that - like other times in the series - they will be curious about the various celebrations, and they'll at least wonder about it.

Speaking of holidays, I'm curious what the Manhattan Clan did for New Years Eve . . . odds are they'd be curious about that too, and as it was New Year's Eve 1996, I'm kinda curious where the Clan was during the Sevarious Drama of BG#4 . . . I know Goliath & co. can't always know what the good doctor's doing (and thus, were not where the BIG action was), but I still wonder if they were at the castle, or it they were out and about watching the festivities.
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Mon, Dec 22, 2008 1:57:17 pm EST from 68.98.115.219

I don't know, it just feels way too much like humans with wings again. I just don't like it. It just again wreaks of this desire among some fans to "humanize" gargoyles, and it often feels like when Europeans felt the need to "Christianize and civilize" Africans, Native Americans and other indigenous people.

Does Elisa even celebrate Christmas that heavily? Greg said she has some Christian background from her mother, but took after her father who spend his life as a dedicated Agnostic.

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=3350

Why does it have to be Christmas, anyway? Why not Hannukah? Or Ramadan? Or Kwanza? Just because Christmas is the most commercial, and in your face?

Of course that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.
Greg Bishansky
"Do you want to know why I use a knife? Guns are too quick. You can't savor all of the…little…emotions. You see, in their…last moments, people show you who they really are. So in a way…I knew your friends better than you ever did. Would you like to know which of them were cowards?" -The Joker
posted @ Mon, Dec 22, 2008 1:36:10 pm EST from 24.205.39.101

I doubt gargoyles would do much gift exchanging. They don't seem to have possessions very much other than what they wear and use in battle. In Scotland, the Wyvern Clan seemed to spend their off time eating and talking. I guess if they gave gifts, it might be a new loin cloth or sword, for those gargoyles that like to use weapons.
Siren
posted @ Mon, Dec 22, 2008 1:29:35 pm EST from 72.188.139.212

Demonskrye> I agree with you on the solstice celebration. It'd be interesting to see how the gargoyles of different clans would go about celebrating the night that allows them the most time awake out of the entire year, especially as a contrast to the "driving away the darkness" and "ensuring the light returns" ceremonies that humans have had for that same night.
Kerry (Kth) Boyd
posted @ Mon, Dec 22, 2008 11:41:11 am EST from 71.56.36.35

Greg B> I kind of doubt that Shari's a practicing Muslim, or at least not a very orthodox one based on how she dresses.
Algernon
Remember, Jesus loves you, but everyone else thinks you're a jerk!
posted @ Mon, Dec 22, 2008 10:29:17 am EST from 86.41.212.74

Winter Gargoyle Holidays> I'd agree that it's likely that the Manhattan Clan will start observing Christmas to some degree if it's important to Elisa, since she is part of their clan. It's possible that some of the more modernized clans will also celebrate Christmas in a rather secular way. I'm thinking mainly of the London Clan. They have access to modern media, including television, which gives them a view of human customs that some of the more isolated clans may not get. I think the younger generations would almost certainly be intrigued by Christmas and whether or not the clan celebrates it is a matter of whether the older members of the clan decide that it's not a gargoyle things or that it's just a bit of harmless fun.

I'm sure there is some kind of traditional gargoyle celebration for the winter solstice, which is probably almost the polar opposite of traditional human holidays centered around the solstice. Early human cultures tended to focus on reviving the day and bringing back the light since longer nights were a much bigger deal when light wasn't available at the flick of a switch. It's a concept that has persisted as many of the major winter holidays involve light in some way. Gargoyles would likely take a very different view, seeing the longest night of the year as a time of awakening and life, rather than something to be feared and driven away.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Mon, Dec 22, 2008 7:56:24 am EST from 146.115.115.33

Let's just hope they keep Bronx away from the Christmas trees. I'm not sure how he'd respond to them.
Todd Jensen
www.gunnerkrigg.com/index2.php
posted @ Mon, Dec 22, 2008 6:59:04 am EST from 4.244.208.99

If gargoyles observe anything this time of the year, I'd imagine it'd be the winter solstice, which has the longest night of the year. Of course, that would only apply to clans in the northern hemisphere.
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2009]
"Sleigh bells ring, are you listening? I don't think you're listening. I could have used... more sleighbell." - (Christopher) Walken in a Winter Wonderland
posted @ Mon, Dec 22, 2008 6:51:58 am EST from 76.205.89.131

Tenth!
Spen
"Aside from that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"
posted @ Mon, Dec 22, 2008 6:00:17 am EST from 66.43.205.110

7th
VickyUK - [vickyfanofwwe at aol dot com]
posted @ Mon, Dec 22, 2008 3:56:11 am EST from 64.12.117.134

Not to mention Bluestone is a Jewish last name.
Greg Bishansky
"Do you want to know why I use a knife? Guns are too quick. You can't savor all of the…little…emotions. You see, in their…last moments, people show you who they really are. So in a way…I knew your friends better than you ever did. Would you like to know which of them were cowards?" -The Joker
posted @ Mon, Dec 22, 2008 3:28:32 am EST from 24.205.39.101

6th ^_^
VoLpE de FuEgO - [sailorx78 at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Mon, Dec 22, 2008 3:16:37 am EST from 75.74.224.252

Ahh, of all the things I remember from Ask Greg, I don't remember reading that. Thanks.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happened to simplicity?
posted @ Mon, Dec 22, 2008 3:13:09 am EST from 98.20.130.14

DPH: Matt being Jewish is (at the least) an Ask Greg Revelation:

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=3350
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Mon, Dec 22, 2008 3:05:03 am EST from 68.98.115.219

GXB- <But it would be the same as Matt Bluestone being invited to a Christmas celebration, not his holiday being Jewish, but he'd participate.> Was this a gathering revelation that Matt Bluestone is Jewish?
dph_of_rules
Whatever happened to simplicity?
posted @ Mon, Dec 22, 2008 2:58:55 am EST from 98.20.130.14

PGF> I don't think they'd take Christmas as their own holiday. I find that doubtful. Now, if Elisa celebrates it, then they'd participate. But it would be the same as Matt Bluestone being invited to a Christmas celebration, not his holiday being Jewish, but he'd participate.

As for the Manhattan Clan exchanging gifts, I tend to think not since they tend to not be so materialistic. Nor do I think Elisa would want or ask for anything but their company.

So, yeah, they'll celebrate it with their friends who do. But it'll be no more their holiday than Matt Bluestone's or Shari's (who I assume is a Muslim).
Greg Bishansky
"Do you want to know why I use a knife? Guns are too quick. You can't savor all of the…little…emotions. You see, in their…last moments, people show you who they really are. So in a way…I knew your friends better than you ever did. Would you like to know which of them were cowards?" -The Joker
posted @ Mon, Dec 22, 2008 12:41:19 am EST from 24.205.39.101

Guess I'm fifth. Hello new week...
bluewyvern
"Attend the petty jealousies and angers that prey upon your heart."
posted @ Mon, Dec 22, 2008 12:34:38 am EST from 72.226.43.119

Hey, guys, i just acquired the game Spore, and do you know what, i named one of my species The Space Spawn ,in honor of Greg, Disney And Gargoyles, Happy Holidays everyone.
Daniel Abraham Raviv. - [dar111191 at gmail dot com]
Daniel Abraham Raviv.
posted @ Mon, Dec 22, 2008 12:17:32 am EST from 24.7.204.215

So new week, new topic...(Please!!)

I'm sure this discussion has come before, but since the holidays are here, I think it could be brought up again...Gargoyles/Christmas/winter holidays.

Would the Manhattan clan take part in any sort of Christmas celebrations? It's likely that Elisa celebrates with her immediate family and has told the gargs of the basics. Would any kind of gift-giving occur I wonder...and how would the gargoyles give gifts without Xanatos supplying them with everything?

And Happy Hannukah/Chanukah to Greg W., and anyone else who celebrates here. It's so much simpler than Christmas, isn't it? :)
Purplegoldfish
posted @ Mon, Dec 22, 2008 12:17:11 am EST from 64.148.56.178

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