Comment Room Archive : Gargoyles : Station Eight

Yeah And Ed Asner is in it! Also, No, Return Of The Jedi is far better than the Goliath Chronicles, so are others. Also No The Star Wars Villains including the Empire are not lame or retarded. They are a huge threat in the Star Wars Universe just as Thailog, Xanatos (Until Now), Demona, Proteus and others are a threat in the Gargoyles Universe. Also The Ewoks did not feast on the Imperials during the celebration in the end of ROTJ, they're not cannibals, the closest to that ever was that in the Expanded Universe, The Ewoks used imperial scout trooper helmets as plates for food. Also George Lucas did not get rid of all the other Jedi and showing they were less powerful than the main characters, in fact they are main characters in other Star Wars projects, besides, George himself said that there are no main characters in Star Wars, they're all just as important to the plot as Anakin, Luke OR Obi Wan. He mainly killed them to show how Jedi disappeared and were caught off guard. Also, no Gary Kurts leaving Lucasfilm is not like Greg Weisman leaving Disney. For one George Lucas created Star Wars and it was him who had all the ideas, Greg Weisman created Gargoyles, so when he left, people didn't know how to execute (Not kill, i don't have a good definition of it) his characters. Also Return Of The Jedi is like the others, it has more than just Action, it had Drama, mythological reference, literacy, Psychology and more, Look Indiana Jones And The Kingdom Of The Crystal Skull, Yes that's gone The Goliath Chronicles path, but not Star Wars, until recently.
Return Of The Jedi and others are the way they should've been! Also Darth Vader was a good Villain in all of the movies and shows, not just in Empire. All Star Wars Villains are equally good. And Also Vader was not weak to kill the Emperor, he did not expect Luke to be an opportunity to kill the Emperor he was loyal to the Emperor and was just trying to seduce Luke into the dark side and more. And Return Of The Jedi Vader was the same Vader as the others and was not A Wussy he was just as Strong and ruthless as before. And we cannot pretend That Episode 3 Never happened, it did! Sorry. And we will get film to be done the way they need to be done and they are done that way and more.Also Even Gummi Bears was good, they could handle themselves as well. And No Star Wars needed David Lynch, but if he wrote something else or did other stuff there. Also, Even in Empire Strikes Back Vader was in i must obey my master, as he even said he will join us or die master, and no it was a test. Also I'm sorry i don't like it either but the prequels are canon. And no Babylon 5 and that other show are more. Also it did not rip off It's a Wonderful Life (Which i must say Gargoyles should have an episode like that in which Goliath wishes he was never born, i know Gargoyles, and The Goliath Chronicles has a similar episode, but the Goliath Chronicles one sucked, an it had Goliath as a human rather than a Gargoyle that doesn't exist, and also i know Future Tense showed something similar, but in that episode it's not that Goliath didn't exist, he was just absent, and i know they already showed a Dystopian society there, but hey like X-Men they could use more!) It's A Wonderful Life rarely has that quote, it's come from a long time ago, i forgot where it originated! Also Quark And Odo, that kind of odd friendship has been there way before Star Trek like in Mythology of A Woman And A Nymph (A good counterpart to A Vulcan)who were good friends. And no the Fan Fiction Of The Nine Episode will never happen, i know it. and others too!. And again for the Newcomer, i did not intend for us to start talking about Star Wars, i was just saying that i finished watching the movie Star Wars The Clone Wars, and i didn't like it, so i said i was going to Gargoyles to heal me from that terrible movie, and it just got out of hand as we started to talk about this and that more
Oh And listen i don't know if you write here, but Tina Y, If you ever write here, can you answer me? You're A Real Canmore huh? well then i guess fictionally John Castaway, Robyn Canmore (Monmouth) And Jason are cousins of yours or something? I'd like to interview you and ask you some questions because I'm interested and curious about the real Canmore Family. Can i arrange a talk with you? Also do you think Greg will integrate you and your real family into the Gargoyles Universe? Please answer me if you write here of course?
Daniel Abraham Raviv. - [dar111191 at gmail dot com]
Daniel Abraham Raviv.
posted @ Sun, Jan 4, 2009 10:29:25 pm EST from 24.7.204.215

For those Star Wars fans, play Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic and Knights of the Old Republic II. Really makes up for the bad Star Wars Prequels.
Robby Barrows - [rbgecko at yahoo dot com]
SuperSaiyaMan12
posted @ Sun, Jan 4, 2009 10:18:47 pm EST from 68.116.180.70

wish i knew what starwars had to do with gargoyles.. whatever im new and i just wanna see what my selections look like.. ha
sTiTcH - [udontdzerv2liv at aol dot com]
Stitch
posted @ Sun, Jan 4, 2009 9:13:20 pm EST from 205.188.117.134

Ah, Star Wars. Up until I was about eight, I though the "Empire Strikes Back"'s title was "The Umpire's Striped Back".
I kid you not. Maybe it was because I didn't know what an empire was. It wasn't until I could read the VHS box that I was like, "Oh! That makes a lot more sense now!"
Grey Wolf
posted @ Sun, Jan 4, 2009 7:37:45 pm EST from 76.123.26.18

Greg B> I think Vader's competence kind of goes up and down what movie your talking about. ANH & TESB Vader was a badass, ROTJ Vader was a wussy and lets just pretend episode III never happened.
Algernon
I'd rather be a climbing ape than a falling angel. -Terry Pratchett
posted @ Sun, Jan 4, 2009 7:24:55 pm EST from 86.41.196.153

HoE: Ha ha, I enjoyed that. Thanks ;)
lonerider26 - [lonerider26 at gmail dot com]
"The story is told-though who can say if it be true..."~Shari
posted @ Sun, Jan 4, 2009 3:06:37 pm EST from 71.239.117.121

Greg B: <The only Imperial we've seen who was intelligent, and a well done villain was Grand Moff Tarkin.> I disagree. I think Darth Vader was used very effectively as a villain in "Empire Strikes Back." Of course, that still doesn't say much. Out of four movies, he was really only used well in one of them. Which reminds me...

Algernon: Another thing about Vader in "Jedi" was that George Lucas seemed to have abandoned one of the plot points of the previous movie, which honestly, was one of the best things about Vader's character. When he found out his son was alive, he saw in Luke a second chance to kill the Emperor, which was something he couldn't do himself after his body had been ravaged by fire. But in "Jedi," when he actually has Luke in the same room as the Emperor, what does he do? He protects his master.

And now something for everyone:

http://s138.photobucket.com/albums/q261/RJVanSchaick/?action=view&current=sw_power.jpg
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Though I've never understood how God could expect his creatures to pick the one true religion by faith - it strikes me as a sloppy way to run a universe." -Jubal Harshaw ("Stranger In a Strange Land")
posted @ Sun, Jan 4, 2009 11:52:32 am EST from 76.27.174.85

JD> ebay?

Supermorff> lol, you said "toady". Reminds me of Gummi Bears's diminutive second-in-command of Duke Igthorn.
Jade Griffin - [jade _ griffin at hotmail dot com]
"Foooooooood!!!"
posted @ Sun, Jan 4, 2009 11:05:48 am EST from 71.94.79.73

DPH> Your argument still falls flat, how do you go from Morden trying to tempt the B5 ambassadors into a faustian pact to Omnipotent aliens magically summoning fairy tale creatures out of the ether?

The only similarity between the two episode is the whole "be careful what you whish for" moral, but in that case you might as well accuse JMS of ripping of "It's A Wonderful Life".

And as for Quark & Odo, JMS does not hold the patent on what TV Tropes calls "The Odd Freindship".* Heck TOS was already doing it back in the sixties with Spock and Bones.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OddFriendship
Algernon
I'd rather be a climbing ape than a falling angel. -Terry Pratchett
posted @ Sun, Jan 4, 2009 9:22:18 am EST from 213.94.177.67

I also remember that David Lynch was asked to do RETURN at some point, but was thrown out quickly when he laid out his plans.

Looking at Dune, this really is a shame. But I guess Lynch would have been the next Gore Verbinski then, so I'm just happy he went and did his own stuff. :)
Brook
posted @ Sun, Jan 4, 2009 8:47:59 am EST from 84.191.205.173

Competent Star Wars villains> I think you could argue, not unreasonably, that Star Wars villains weren't quite so incompetent until Return of the Jedi, at which point they all became rather lame. Admittedly, none of the Stormtroopers were ever able to shoot straight. In 'Return', Vader suddenly switches from his all-conquering "join me, we will overthrow the Emperor and rule the galaxy as father and son!" to a toadying "I must obey my master" (and I don't want to hear anything about his offer at the end of 'Empire' being a test for Luke orchestrated by the Emperor, because that's clearly just retcon). But the characterisation of Vader in 'New Hope' and 'Empire' makes for a pretty interesting villain. 'Return' was a bit of a let down and, naturally, the other three movies did not happen.

My big problem with 'Return' isn't the Ewoks or even the Emperor (although he really does seem like a moron, as others have pointed out), or that Carrie Fisher suddenly has lost the ability to act. It's the fact that it could have been so much better. I don't know if you know the background, but for most of George Lucas' early films (including 'New Hope' and 'Empire') he worked with the producer Gary Kurtz. Kurtz was... uh... let go after 'Empire' when he clashed with Lucas about the production of 'Return'. Basically, after releasing the first Indiana Jones movie, Lucas decided the story could go hang because all the audience cared about was the thrill and the action. So he threw out his old notes and his nine-episode bible... and he got rid of Kurtz when he complained. There's a pretty interesting interview with Kurtz here, about his whole career: http://uk.movies.ign.com/articles/376/376873p2.html, but if you only want the relevant things then here's a MUCH shorter summary: http://filmchatblog.blogspot.com/2005/05/why-i-do-not-consider-star-wars.html

So basically I see 'Return' and all the prequel movies as the Star Wars equivalent of 'The Goliath Chronicles'. We're never going to get a film to do things "the way they should have been done", for several reasons, but I'd like to see a fanfic treatment following that original nine-episode bible. We could call it 'The Jedi Saga'. Or something.
Supermorff
posted @ Sun, Jan 4, 2009 6:30:34 am EST from 86.131.13.78

JD> You could try the auction at the next Gathering.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Sun, Jan 4, 2009 5:21:34 am EST from 69.223.185.221

Re: the Firely mention earlier in reply to Greg B's mention of it...

I don't think Firefly necessarily needs to be labeled "Sci-fi/Western". Sure, the music (and Joss being inspired to do the story while reading the book "The Killer Angels", which concerns the U.S. civil war) often had a western flavor (but not always, ie, in episodes featuring some of the richer planets like "Ariel" and in the big screen continuation "Serenity"). But all the rest, some of the character dressing with that sensibility, more or less modern-looking guns, horses being utilized on the poorer planets, it all made sense within the context of the show. Sci-fi/Western isn't an insulting label and I know it was popular with most of the media and many of the fans, but to me Firefly is just sci-fi. Some of the most restrained space-set sci-fi I've seen on TV too (I haven't seen Space: Above & Beyond yet, despite that complete series DVD set being dirt cheap). Or maybe this is splitting hairs, like when I maintain that the infected humans in "28 Days Later" don't and/or shouldn't qualify as zombies. In the grand scheme of things it doesn't really matter, call 'em whatever you want.

Re: Goliath maquette concept art

I hope between now and when the statue is actually built, they have him perched on the edge of rocks that are a part of a castle instead. That looks like a church top. And it looks vaguely phallic between his legs in that piece (though I know it's easy to say that about damn near anything pointy/cylindrical and it will probably be able to be positioned a certain way when it's real and three dimensional so that it doesn't look, to me, so blatantly and humorously like that...'cause I'm 12). Better reason for the castle perch--if they make more of the gargs, they can make it so that the pieces fit together to make a scene.

If they turn out well, I might buy 'em to support the property. I swore off toys three or four years ago, I think my last one was the Frank The Bunny talking figure from Donnie Darko. There is some extremely cool work out there in toy and statue development land, but they're just too expensive and they end up gathering dust. I can't read them/watch them, so money's better spent on that variety of entertainment, and I don't have a spot to display them, so...yeah. But man, some of the prop work that I see I often drool over--swords, armor, the for-people-sized Autobot Matrix of Leadership (heh)...
Kris - [plekopleko at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Sun, Jan 4, 2009 3:56:48 am EST from 69.17.187.216

Damn, my typos are bad today and everything else seems off. I was trying to spell Londo's last name. Londo and G'Kar.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happened to simplicity?
posted @ Sun, Jan 4, 2009 2:53:43 am EST from 98.20.130.50

I am new here - so sorry if I am nervous and screw up.......... Does anyone know where I could sell Mint condition, unopened Gargoyle collectibles - action figures, cars, essentially everything ever created for Gargoyles?
JD - [jdicons at aol dot com]
JD
posted @ Sun, Jan 4, 2009 1:13:32 am EST from 207.200.116.68

I need that statue...
lonerider26 - [lonerider26 at gmail dot com]
"The story is told-though who can say if it be true..."~Shari
posted @ Sun, Jan 4, 2009 12:21:20 am EST from 71.239.117.121

Algernon> What do you mean "except for Vader?" Vader was just as incompetent as anyone. I think "Revenge of the Sith" demonstrated that Darth Vader has the mental capacity of Forrest Gump. Emperor Palpatine was a 'tard also. Like Greg W once said "an Emperor who was too stupid to win."

The only Imperial we've seen who was intelligent, and a well done villain was Grand Moff Tarkin.

DPH> I do not recall a B5 character named Mallory.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Register for the Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Temptation" is one of my favorite episodes because it features Demona beating up rednecks. God, how I hate rednecks!" -Me
posted @ Sat, Jan 3, 2009 11:17:44 pm EST from 24.205.39.101

Now I remember the episode I was thinking "IF Wishes Were Horses" was compared to. It was "Signs and Portents". In the former, aliens were making everybody's wishes come true. In the later, Mr Morden was asking what every ambassador really wanted. I compare the Quark - Odo relationship in DS9 to the Mallory G'Kar relationship in B5. The point is I don't believe DS9 would exist or be half as good if Paramount hadn't been approached about doing B5.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happened to simplicity?
posted @ Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:46:35 pm EST from 98.20.130.50

Daniel> Even though I think ROTJ has it's flaws, I've never had any problem with the Ewoks being able to trounce the Imperial Forces. Mainly cause, except for Vader, every last Imperial character is an incompetant boob.

I mean lets face it, a battalion of Imperial Stormtroopers would probably have a hard time taking on the Little Rascals, much less a hundred cannibalistic Gummi Bears.

You know, the victory celebrations on Endor probably consisted of the Ewoks gorging themselves on the charred flesh of Imperial Officers.
Algernon
I'd rather be a climbing ape than a falling angel. -Terry Pratchett
posted @ Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:33:37 pm EST from 83.71.75.223

Litwolf> It seems like all of the cartoon characters are going to fall under the Teeny Weeny mini-maquettes category and those seem to run between $50 and $100 roughly. I'm guessing Goliath won't be out until sometime later in the year since Darkwing is fully sculpted and painted and is still listed as scheduled for release sometime in the first quarter of this year. So hopefully we'll have a little time to start saving some money or put it on our wish lists for an upcoming gift-giving occasion.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Sat, Jan 3, 2009 8:42:55 pm EST from 146.115.115.33

Im definitally interested in that statue! How much do they usually run for?
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Sat, Jan 3, 2009 8:00:05 pm EST from 71.206.9.183

Here's some good "Gargoyles" related news to start off our new year. Toy news website Action Figure Insider has an update on Electric Tiki's upcoming projects for the year, including the concept artwork for the Goliath statue! Click my name or check out actionfigureinsider.com to see for yourself.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Sat, Jan 3, 2009 7:05:09 pm EST from 146.115.115.33

Okay one last thing before we go back to just Gargoyles Okay? Well i love the Ewoks And Droid TV Series better than today's series because well I've seen them and they were much more well written well animated (And i did call them TV Series, except for the Caravan Of Courage And The Battle For Endor which were TV Movies) and well the characters were more developed, they weren't annoying like Ahsoka and those other characters of today's shows, and also they had good scripts that did not harm The Universe they were placed in (In this case, the Star Wars Universe), like it fit into canon perfectly and did not renovate anything in The Star Wars Universe like today's shows do! Also The Ewoks were wonderful they weren't used badly by the creators, they're a primitive race for gods sake and they're still living in the stone age, The Gungans I agree are annoying and plotless, (All except for their battle with the droids that was awesome). But the Ewoks were the best parts of The Star Wars Universe, they were sort of like David (Not Xanatos but the boy from The Torah) the small and armed with one what seems like primitive weapon fighting against Goliath (Not The Gargoyle, but the Giant From the same story in the Torah as David) which in this case is the Empire! they managed to defeat the strong and powerful with what they have and showed that no matter how small or in this case primitive you are, you can still fall the mighty! Also George Lucas did work on Captain Eo and all of those other projects i mentioned.
Also no Star Trek was good i still have to see how the new movie is, but the series was pretty good so far (Check out A Shattered Universe if you don't believe me)! Also The Star Wars 1997 Special Edition was the last good Star Wars Product after which stuff started to get ruined.By The Way can i just say that Boba Fett is the only other villain i find that is as interesting and complex as any of The Gargoyles villains.Oh and one other thing, did you Know Jim Cummings Who Voiced the original Hunter (Forgot his real name), Dingo, and other characters voiced A Pirate in the recent Star Wars The Clone Wars TV Series, and his voice there pretty much sounds like his voice as the Hunter!
Daniel Abraham Raviv. - [dar111191 at gmail dot com]
Daniel Abraham Raviv.
posted @ Sat, Jan 3, 2009 6:32:58 pm EST from 24.7.204.215

L.T. Williams> GargWiki has been glitching lately. It should be working again soon, I think.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Register for the Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Temptation" is one of my favorite episodes because it features Demona beating up rednecks. God, how I hate rednecks!" -Me
posted @ Sat, Jan 3, 2009 5:13:03 pm EST from 24.205.39.101

Am I the only one having weird GargWiki issues... Some pages work fine, but many are giving me this: "Database schema not up to date, please run maintenance/update.php".
L.T. Williams
posted @ Sat, Jan 3, 2009 4:16:44 pm EST from 71.93.81.240

I've got 1 or 2 two Heinleins standing around somewhere... *sigh* don't ask me where... my dads books, he gave them to me ages ago...

I like UBIK, A SCANNER DARKLY and THE THREE STIGMATA OF PALMER ELDRITCH the most of Dicks works. FLOW MY TEARS THE POLICEMAN SAID is also very good, especially if you've seen Waking Live/read the article about how it came together.
Second Variety I do not know, have to look for it...
Brook
posted @ Sat, Jan 3, 2009 11:08:54 am EST from 84.191.233.4

Brook: I adore Philip K. Dick. "Second Variety" is still one of the best short stories I've ever read. Dick's novels have a habit of falling apart at the end, because he always had to finish them quickly because he worked under contract a lot because he was always broke because of drugs. But "Time Out of Joint" and "Maze of Death" are still classic. His visions of the future were largely cynical, but deep down, he still possessed faith in the human spirit.

Another writer I got into recently (as in this past year) was Heinlein. My friend lent me "Stranger in a Strange Land," saying it was one of the best books he's ever read. That was quite an experience.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Hopefully, we should appreciate that given points in time are not so significant as the nature of what is impressed on the mind, and how it is retained and used." -Yes ("Tales From Topographic Oceans")
posted @ Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:49:53 am EST from 76.27.174.85

"Personally I think Abrams' new movie is Star Trek's last chance to drag itself out of the black hole of suckiness that Voyager and Enterprise damned it to"

I AGREE!! But so much, you really can't imagine!!

Star Trek pretty much remained the same thing over and over again!! Same look, same actors, same cliches, same constellations.

THIS is FINALLY a different and innovative ST approach. I stopped watching when everything that came after NG pretty much looked the same like NG. DSN had some good ideas in the beginning, but after some hours of sighing, I went over to Babylon 5. Today, I wouldn't even bother (although B5 was really good).
Point is: it really looked all the same from some point on, Borg or no Borg.

@ Matt: I think it wasn't just the writing. The whole thing just has a very differnt atmosphere and approach to it. You can almost FEEL how they needed to tie all the loose strings back together and END this.

@ Grey Wolf: No, you're not. I would even go as far and say you'd be cool if you'd like PLANET OF THE APES - THE MUSICAL!!

Classic. The remake was bad, but the orriginal - classic!!

SF writers: I love PK Dick. Now, that IS some quality writing!! He's not even that much into doing SF, but provoking your thoughts on what reality really is, and how we "approach" it.

Bradbury is really good aswell. Just to throw these two names in here. :)
Brook
posted @ Sat, Jan 3, 2009 6:04:50 am EST from 84.191.233.4

Daniel> OK, now I'm just curious. What is it that you like so much about "Droids" and "Ewoks" that you find lacking in all of the pieces of animation I mentioned? You called them "films," but one of them is actually a TV show, so I'm wondering if you've actually seen them all or are just dismissing them out of hand.

And again, I would really like to know where you're hearing all of these interesting rumors. If they all come from the same source, I'd be a little hesitant about believing them, especially since I just realized that both Ahsoka and Anakin's unnamed Jedi friend would have to leave the Jedi order for that particular rumor to be true since Jedi aren't allowed to marry.

Algernon> Should you actually be curious, "Captain EO" was a 3D (as in "pops off the screen" not "computer animated") movie shown at the Disney theme parks. Once again, Lucas only executive produced it, so he likely didn't have much to do with the creative end of things. The director was Francis Ford Coppola of all people. Anjelica Huston plays the main villain and the heroic space captain is played by Michael Jackson, back when he was better known as a musician and dancer than as a....well, whatever he's known for now. Jackson's fall from grace, combined with the fact that there's no mention of a possible sequel on either the Wikipedia article or the Unofficial Captain EO fan site, make me think this rumor is nothing more than that.

Greg B> Just out of curiosity, if you consider the Star Wars films to be space fantasy rather than science fiction (which I agree with), why don't you classify "Firefly" as a space western?
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Fri, Jan 2, 2009 9:34:21 pm EST from 146.115.115.33

H.G. Wells wrote some pretty darn good science fiction. The human evolution in "The Time Machine" was beautifully kick ass. Instead of choosing whether humans de-evolve into barely self-aware creatures or evolve into clever but delicate and sinister monsters- do both!
Am I behind times if I like the original "Planet of the Apes"?
Oh! And "Flowers for Algernon". Read it/see the play.

I love sci-fi and fantasy. I love writing it, too. It's just that I'm one of those people who focus heavily on ethics, the nature of living things, and a bunch of psychobabble. Not sure any of the other kids at my high school would read it. And it's hard to play to an adult audience when you're not an adult...
Grey Wolf
posted @ Fri, Jan 2, 2009 8:30:45 pm EST from 76.123.26.18

Frankly, I think most people are pretty tough on the Ewoks. The Ewoks were not the problem, it was the bad writing that made them (along with everyone else) look bad.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
FREE TIBET! with purchase of tibet of equal or greater value (offer not valid in china)
posted @ Fri, Jan 2, 2009 5:29:47 pm EST from 70.237.197.90

Personally I think Abrams' new movie is Star Trek's last chance to drag itself out of the black hole of suckiness that Voyager and Enterprise damned it to

P.S. Who is Captain Eo?
Algernon
I'd rather be a climbing ape than a falling angel. -Terry Pratchett
posted @ Fri, Jan 2, 2009 5:19:00 pm EST from 213.94.151.89

Well I am voicing an opinion and i just want to say that well Ewoks and Droids were pretty good, Animation and scripts much better than in today's Star Wars Movies and TV Shows. Also Return Of The Jedi is good, i know many people claim that It's more like a Disney Film than a Star Wars Film, but what makes them say that? It's got more action than Disney would ever allow in his films, The Ewoks i think were a good part to the movie because they helped the rebels defeat the empire and showed that even the small and the less primitive can defeat the all mighty and Strong one (The Empire). I feel it's the strongest of all 3 of them!
Also, Well, Star Trek was pretty good and well i don't like the new look Of The Enterprise, Kirk, Or Spock, as well as the director, he's good at lost and Cloverfield but he shouldn't be doing Star Trek.
Also he cancels by not making anymore. And what i mean by Lucas not wanting it to be cancelled and wanted to Continue The series. I did not say he's doing it for money, but he wants to work on what's successful and what brought him fame, i know Indiana Jones And American Graffiti were also successful, idon't know about Graffiti but he is continuing the Indiana Jones Adventure as well, making an animated series of it as well. And let's not forget Captain Eo, i hear they might be making a sequel to it as well! What i was saying is he tried to do other stuff, but it wasn't that successful for him so he went back to what was a big success for him, Star Wars, Indiana Jones, And Captain Eo, not for money, but to have successes again, but that's just my theory! He is afraid also that someone will ruin his franchise when he's gone even though he's pretty much ruining it himself.he tried to do other stuff but they weren't as successful so he just decided to go back to what brought him fame, at least that's my theory."And i do love my Girlfriend very much and that's all I'll say! And well i just see some similarities between Ahsoka and Angela, they both Kinda have the same personality, the same excitement and also they're very curious, i know Angela has more character than Ahsoka but i still see some similarities and more. And also look when i say that i see action in Star Wars The Clone Wars that should be in Gargoyles, i mean the punching the kicking and also other ways they fight! Also Kung Fu Panda i think doesn't look good, neither do those other films you mentioned, i don't think any animation looks good today! I'm just saying i don't want to have that look in Gargoyles, that Cheesy CGI look the bad graphic fighting and all those other stuff. Also one more thing I didn't mean to bring Star Wars into this board, i was just saying that after watching Star Wars The Clone Wars movie i needed to watch alot of Gargoyles to cheer me up from that. Also i was just saying that i hope Gargoyles won't get ruined from CGI even though i think Gargoyles 2198 should be 2D Animation like the rest of the series.
Daniel Abraham Raviv. - [dar111191 at gmail dot com]
Daniel Abraham Raviv.
posted @ Fri, Jan 2, 2009 3:48:07 pm EST from 24.7.204.215

Not sure why we're talking Star Wars here(other than it was the first movie I ever saw in a theatre when I was 10). I was still in High school when the Droids/Ewoks animated series came out. Nelvana did both the first year. Droids was dropped and Ewoks continued - done by DIC for a second season with a much cheezier voice cast & story line. I couldn't watch it.
Btw Cree Summer was Princess Kneesaa in Ewoks season 1 ^_^ - had to throw in a Garg Connection there somewhere.
Wingless
posted @ Fri, Jan 2, 2009 3:11:31 pm EST from 99.245.254.123

Yeah. EP3 was kind of a good film (I mean, in contrast to its 2 predecessors), but... *gah*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6AW_ZS0grQ

I still really like General Grievous, but I guess this has to do with the fact that Lucas did not create him!!!

And yeah, let's just kill all the Jedis...
Brook
posted @ Fri, Jan 2, 2009 1:16:28 pm EST from 84.191.255.57

Greg B, on the topic of the Star Wars EU. You might be better off not having got into it. Liking the EU just makes people hate George Lucas even more. Because almost any character that someone else created got delt the crappiest ends in Episode 3. Grievous, Dooku, Aayla Secura, and numerous other Jedi had pretty deep storyliens in the comics. But got taken out like little *censored* because Lucas didn't want anyone to look better then his characters.
Ozzie Arcane - [ozziearcane at yahoo dot com]
"Hello Booby! This is a trap!" - Eggplant Wizard
posted @ Fri, Jan 2, 2009 12:57:16 pm EST from 69.14.122.91

Daniel> "No Return Of The Jedi was good also, that and the Ewok adventures and Droids TV Series those were the last good ones. And In Star Trek, no it was all fine until J.J. Abrams new movie."

I think it's important to keep in mind that we're all voicing our opinions here, so no one is necessarily "right" or "wrong," though it tends to help if you explain a little why you feel the way you do about it rather than just saying "No, this is good." I personally still like "Return of the Jedi." I do feel it has its flaws and is probably the weakest of the three original movies, but for me, there are still more things that I enjoy in the film than things that I have problems with. I find it very hard to watch both the "Droids" cartoon and the "Ewok Adventures" (the live-action ones, right?) these days. The animation on "Droids" is pretty awful and the stories never really held my attention. I've only seen the first "Ewok Adventure," but I found the pacing to be rather glacial and I can't make much sense of how it's supposed to fit into the whole Star Wars universe. It doesn't particularly help that we're shown such exotic Endorian animals as "horse" and "bunny."

Unless you've somehow managed to catch a preview screening of Abrams "Star Trek," I think it's a little early to judge it. I'm reminded of how the initial fan reaction to what turned out to be an extremely popular and successful movie was along the lines of "OMG, Joker looks so totally wrong!" I've only seen substantial chunk of the original series and TNG and a few of the movies, so I can't really comment on whether Trek was fine until now or there were problems going back several series. But I do have some issues with the way Paramount has been handling Trek in general and the last two movies ranged from mediocre to very bad.

"Also .Lucas isn't doing it for money, he claims he wants to continue the adventure, doesn't want it to end up like what happened to Gargoyles Cancelled!"

How exactly does anyone "cancel" a series of films? Even putting that aside, Star Wars was really in no danger of going away between novels, comics, video games, action figures, and other merchandise. The original trilogy told a complete story, one that audiences were perfectly happy to watch on its own for years. Yes, there was room to tell more story, but everything was pretty well tied up by the end of "Jedi." It's not like it would have been if the series had ended with "Empire." Lucas felt that Anakin Skywalker's youth and eventual turn to the dark side was a story that needed to be told. I may not feel the same way in hindsight, but that's my opinion. Regardless, Lucas made episodes 1-3 because he felt he had another story to tell, not because Star Wars was in any danger of going the way of "The Goliath Chronicles."

"Even though my theory is, he has no other successful work. I know Labyrinth, Howard The Duck, and Willow Lovers that you beg to differ, but they weren't real big successes, heck most people would prefer Lord Of The Rings, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles & Roger Rabbit, he tried to do other stuff but they weren't as successful so he just decided to go back to what brought him fame, at least that's my theory."

OK, now I'm confused. First you say that Lucas isn't in it for the money, that he claims he just wants to keep the adventure of Star Wars alive. Fine. I can buy that. The guy can probably make more money than he'll ever need without lifting a finger. But then you turn around and say that your theory is that Lucas went back to Star Wars because it was the most successful thing he ever did, meaning the thing that made the most money. I have no idea why you mention the films that you do. Lucas is only credited as "executive producer" on "Labyrinth" and "Howard the Duck," which doesn't indicate much of any creative input. And you've curiously chosen not to mention the Indiana Jones films or "American Graffiti." I'm not sure what the other three movies have to do with anything; it sounds like you picked three popular films out of a hat. But more to the point, this seems to totally contradict the idea that Lucas isn't in it for the money. Is he going back to Star Wars because he wants to keep the adventure going and he felt he had an important story to tell, or because it was the film series that made him the most money?

"And look you misunderstood me, When i said that Ahsoka was Star Wars's Answer to Angela, i don't mean i hate Angela i love her, heck i'm even dating a girl named Angela because i love the series so much,"

Your romantic life is your own concern, but I sincerely hope that you're interested in this girl for other reasons as well.

"what i meant was that well, like Angela, Ahsoka was introduced later in the series and like Angela she's very brave, courageous & shows deep caring for her friends, heck a new episode of the clone wars will have Anakin wounded by General Grievous or someone else & she'll go into a blind rage at the person who hurt him, sounds like Angela when she saw what Thailog did to Goliath (''You Bastard''), and well i know Angela's more cautious less aggressive and has more character than Ahsoka, but there are still some similarities,""

I still think the similarities are pretty superficial. The characteristics you name could pretty easily be applied to most of the main characters in "Gargoyles." Goliath is brave, caring towards his friends, and was willing to kill Dracon when he believed that Dracon was responsible for shooting Elisa and went after the Hunters full force after they hurt Angela.

"not to mention i read that Ahsoka will marry one of Anakin's Jedi Friends, much like how Angela marries one of Goliath's Clan (Broadway), so you guys get what i mean?"

I'd be very interested to hear where you read that.

"Heck guys, i see in Star Wars The Clone Wars action that belongs in Gargoyles, Not Star Wars, like when padme, and commander cody were fightin with their fists and punching alot of people of their feet,"

I really don't know what you mean by this.

"And Look, I'm not blaming CGI, I'm just saying i don't want the Gargoyles To look like Crap nor the Space Spawn, look In both Star Wars The Clone Wars TV And Movie they all look like crap, the animation looks cheap and the fighting movements aren't cool and realistic. Animators have lost it today! Even Disney's lost it, Look at Enchanted, Even 2D Animation looks like Crap, i don't want to see this happen to Gargoyles, cheesy fighting, Bad Dimensional characters & you know all that!"

You're making blanket statements again. You take one animated show which you don't like (I happen to like "Clone Wars" and I know I'm in the minority on that, but it's OK) and declare "Animators have lost it today!" Have you seen "Kung-Fu Panda"? "Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends"? "Wall-E"? "Persepolis"? "The Venture Brothers"? "Howl's Moving Castle"? Saying that "Gargoyles" should never be computer animated because you don't like how "Clone Wars" looks is like watching "The Goliath Chronicles" and concluding that Star Wars should never be animated in hand-drawn 2D, which would mean that we would never have seen the original "Clone Wars," which would have been a real shame. And claiming that today's animators have somehow "lost it," well, to me, that just says that you aren't paying much attention.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Fri, Jan 2, 2009 8:34:51 am EST from 146.115.115.33

@ Greg: I'm completely with you. Harlan Ellison IS fantastic (I have no mouth and I must scream gives me nightmares!!), and the Ewoks... Oh man...

I totally agree with SW6 - not just did the Ewoks ruin it, it was just a mediocre script and film. Kind of like what made the Matrix Sequels so bad.

And the JJ Abrahams movie looks really, really good IMHO.

For my views on Star Trek...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ht4b57NbM0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqWyr7cDcks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHboxuzOeDg
Brook
posted @ Fri, Jan 2, 2009 7:42:30 am EST from 84.191.255.57

DPH> Let me make a little disclaimer before I begin, I'm a huge fan of both B5 and DS9, and I don't think it's necessary to tear one down in order to validate the other. A good show should be able to stand on it's own merits.

Secondly, I'm not interested in debating which is better. The whole idea that DS9 was just a rip-off of B5 holds no water with me for one simple reason, other then the fact that they're both set on space stations in the relatively far future the two shows have nothing in common.
And frankly DPH your own examples make no sense; "I Wishes Were Horses" was the episode were DS9 was plagued by shape-shifting aliens in the form of imaginary creatures like Rumpelstiltskin. In "Coming of The Shadows" G'Kar attempts to assassinate the Centauri emperor. Could you please explain how these two stories are even vaguely similar?

And as for comparing Dax to Ivanova, where the heck did you pull that from. Ivanova and Kira I could get, both being hard as nails second in commands*; but the only thing Dax an Ivanova have in common is that they're both brunettes.

You know I would love to see a copy of the pitch JMS made to Paramount, just to see exactly what Paramount knew about his plans for B5. How detailed was it? Did he outline the entire five year plan in exacting detail? Did he reveal big secrets like Sheridan being Valen? Or did he just turn in an outline of the basic premises and a paragraph or two for each of the main characters?

*though IMHO even that falls apart on closer scrutiny
Algernon
I'd rather be a climbing ape than a falling angel. -Terry Pratchett
posted @ Fri, Jan 2, 2009 6:26:04 am EST from 86.41.196.163

This is about the spectacular spider man. If carnage is in it could he voiced by robert englund because he's the perfect voice and he already does vulture so it's easy to get him. PLEASE use classic carnage not ultimate carnage. He doesn't even talk for cris sakes.
Peter LeBrun - [lebrunar at aol dot com]
peter lebrun
posted @ Fri, Jan 2, 2009 2:45:56 am EST from 75.118.70.61

(Insert Obligatory New Year's Thingie Here)

Mmmm....all this talk of Star Wars is reminding me of Robotech, which is in a similar situation...almost. Sorta. It's complicated, especially if you look at it from my perspective.

GregX> Sometimes I wish I had your high standards. :P Generally I do prefer the more esoteric and sopshisticated SF writing....Ellison is a god (an angry, vengeful god), but sometimes I love cheesy crap if it pushes certain buttons with me.

Not too big a fan of Star Wars in any form, except that the original Clone Wars cartoon was great; so much that I own the second half on DVD.
Incisivis - [incisivis at hotmail dot com]
"No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream" -- Shirley Jackson
posted @ Fri, Jan 2, 2009 1:33:46 am EST from 216.36.154.204

No Star Trek was good until the new movie, and Star Wars is Science fiction. And Star Wars Episode 6 is wonderful, The Ewoks were the best part! Greg, why did you decide against talking to me, do you not like me or something?
Daniel Abraham Raviv. - [dar111191 at gmail dot com]
Daniel Abraham Raviv.
posted @ Fri, Jan 2, 2009 1:30:59 am EST from 24.7.204.215

gxb - <Just a thought. I watched "Deadly Force" again, and I was thinking. Okay, Owen was apparently going to buy back the weapons Dracon stole at the beginning of the episode. But I wonder, did Xanatos really intend to pay Dracon off?

Elisa got shot, Dracon was the leading suspect, he stole Xanatos's guns. Owen and Xanatos had to know this. So, it makes me wonder if Owen sending Goliath off to Manhattan General, where he learned about Dracon being the leading suspect in Elisa's near fatality, was all another plan by Xanatos to have Dracon dealt with so he could both recover the guns and send a message to the mobs not to mess with him.> nice theory.

Algernon <Right now Star Wars is pretty much in the same place Trek was post-DS9; the powers that be have clearly lost their creative spark yet still insist on churning out a sub-standard product just to wring a few more drops of milk out of the cash cow.> - Umm, I disagree. I think Star Trek lost its creative spark before ST:DS9 . As I remember hearing, if paramount hadn't been presented with the basic plans to do Babylon 5 series beforehand and rejected them, ST:DS9 wouldn't have been as semi-decent as it was. You can't convince me that Star Trek didn't steal ideas from Babylon 5. "If Wishes Were Horses" ST:DS9 - "Coming of the Shadows" B5. Lt Dax ST:DS9 - Susana Ivanova - B5. ST:DS9 was a cheap rip-off of B5. The creativity was not there during ST:DS9, as it was about adapting stolen ideas. I used to think ST:DS9 was good until I saw B5; compared to B5, ST:DS9 is barely decent.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happened to simplicity?
posted @ Fri, Jan 2, 2009 1:01:36 am EST from 98.20.130.50

HAPPY FRICKIN' NEW YEARS!

I had too much soda, danced like a maniac, had a little alcohol, all in all, lots of fun. Then I went to the new years party:) Hope everyone had a great new years.
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1 at sbcglobal dot net]
Gaming since '91
posted @ Thu, Jan 1, 2009 11:33:26 pm EST from 69.231.227.54

Robby Barrows> I think Greg Weisman said it more eloquently than I could. Here is his review of "Return of the Jedi":

*****

Return of the Jedi was awful, in my opinion. The promise of the first picture, the depth of the second... All dropped for cutesy revelations, cutesy unbelievable action... and worst of all, an Emperor who was too stupid to win. As if the Ewoks weren't bad enough, the Emperor was embarrassing. HE LITERALLY lost the thing single-handedly. Every time Luke started to get angry and vengeful. Every time he started to turn to the dark side of the force, the big-mouth Emperor would LITERALLY rub his hands together like Snidely Whiplash and say: "That's it, Luke. Turn to the dark side of the force!" At which point, Luke would do a mental double take and remind himself -- visually, on camera -- that turning to the dark side was a bad idea. And it continued like that ad nauseum. Man, I was going NUTS. It was so disappointing. A great series with an awful ending. It broke my heart. The hope was that this was only the middle three of nine episodes. So if the other eight were great (and two were already great) then I could forgive one clunker.

*****

I pretty much enjoy the entire post:

http://s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=711
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Register for the Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Temptation" is one of my favorite episodes because it features Demona beating up rednecks. God, how I hate rednecks!" -Me
posted @ Thu, Jan 1, 2009 11:14:41 pm EST from 24.205.39.101

What was so bad about Episode VI Greg. Did the Ewoks really bring it so down for you that you didn't like it? (I don't fault you for not liking the Prequels, they deserve all the scorn they get)
Robby Barrows - [rbgecko at yahoo dot com]
SuperSaiyaMan12
posted @ Thu, Jan 1, 2009 11:08:25 pm EST from 68.116.180.70

Robby Barrows> I've got a stack of things to read, and movies to watch. So, I think I'll pass. The thing is, the "Star Wars" universe doesn't mean enough for me to go out and spend money on any expanded universe.

I'm just... not all that into it. The first two were good movies, but not anywhere near my personal top ten. Every other film just wasn't good.

Right now, I am reading every Harlan Ellison book I can find. You should try his stuff some time.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Register for the Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Temptation" is one of my favorite episodes because it features Demona beating up rednecks. God, how I hate rednecks!" -Me
posted @ Thu, Jan 1, 2009 10:38:41 pm EST from 24.205.39.101

Greg, I suggest you do. The Thrawn Trilogy, Jedi Academy Trilogy, Shadows of Mindor, Corellian Duology, etc. are really, really good. Plus Young Jedi Knights and the X-Wing books. You'll be surprised on how good they are.
Robby Barrows - [rbgecko at yahoo dot com]
SuperSaiyaMan12
posted @ Thu, Jan 1, 2009 10:22:11 pm EST from 68.116.180.70

Greg B> Fascinating interview, though I do take some issue with Ellison characterising stuff like Independence Day as "debasing" the whole science fiction genre. Yes, Independence day is a brainless crappy movie, but what genre or medium of fiction doesn't have it's share of brainless crap?

Is The Godfather debased by Analyse That? or The Magnificent Seven by Billy the Kid Vs. Dracula?
Algernon
I'd rather be a climbing ape than a falling angel. -Terry Pratchett
posted @ Thu, Jan 1, 2009 9:50:11 pm EST from 86.41.211.201

To expand on what I've been saying. I love science fiction as a genre. But, I prefer when it attempts to be somewhat intellectual. I always saw science fiction as a breeding ground for new ideas, and thought provoking characters and stories. It should say something about people first and foremost... most good stories should. I just want more from my science fiction than explosions, pretty colors and special effects.

For example, I would consider "Independence Day" one of the worst examples of the genre. Whereas, I would consider "2001: A Space Odyssey" a terrific example.

"Star Wars," even at it's best, I always considered to be a fantasy in space. Not that there's anything wrong with that, I like fantasy too. I love "Lord of the Rings." But, you can see the difference.

In the last decade, we were blessed with some great science fiction television. Starting with "Babylon 5" continuing with "Farscape" and then "Firefly" and currently "Battlestar Galactica." I'm hoping the trend continues.

I don't know. I guess I'm just hard to please.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Register for the Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Temptation" is one of my favorite episodes because it features Demona beating up rednecks. God, how I hate rednecks!" -Me
posted @ Thu, Jan 1, 2009 9:42:46 pm EST from 24.205.39.101

Robby Barrows> No, I've never read any of the EU. Nor do I have much of a desire too. I prefer science fiction of the Harlan Ellison, Issac Asimov, Arthur C. Clarke, Robert Heinlein, Alfred Bester varieties. You know, Hugo Award winners.

Star Wars novels seem to me to be like the sci-fi equivalent of mass market romance novels.

This interview here pretty much sums up my views on most science fiction:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDNrnpefGio

I had an entire post written up as a reply to Daniel, but decided against it.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Register for the Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Temptation" is one of my favorite episodes because it features Demona beating up rednecks. God, how I hate rednecks!" -Me
posted @ Thu, Jan 1, 2009 9:24:48 pm EST from 24.205.39.101

Never read any of the EU, Greg?
Robby Barrows - [rbgecko at yahoo dot com]
SuperSaiyaMan12
posted @ Thu, Jan 1, 2009 9:03:16 pm EST from 68.116.180.70

No Return Of The Jedi was good also, that and the Ewok adventures and Droids TV Series those were the last good ones. And In Star Trek, no it was all fine until J.J. Abrams new movie. Also .Lucas isn't doing it for money, he claims he wants to continue the adventure, doesn't want it to end up like what happened to Gargoyles Cancelled! Even though my theory is, he has no other successful work. I know Labyrinth, Howard The Duck, and Willow Lovers that you beg to differ, but they weren't real big successes, heck most people would prefer Lord Of The Rings, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles & Roger Rabbit, he tried to do other stuff but they weren't as successful so he just decided to go back to what brought him fame, at least that's my theory. Also Nah Scrappy Doo isn't that bad, he was just created to increase the show's ratings and be the one part of the gang that wasn't scared of the terrors they faced, heck it was a mistake to turn him into a villain. And look you misunderstood me, When i said that Ahsoka was Star Wars's Answer to Angela, i don't mean i hate Angela i love her, heck i'm even dating a girl named Angela because i love the series so much, what i meant was that well, like Angela, Ahsoka was introduced later in the series and like Angela she's very brave, courageous & shows deep caring for her friends, heck a new episode of the clone wars will have Anakin wounded by General Grievous or someone else & she'll go into a blind rage at the person who hurt him, sounds like Angela when she saw what Thailog did to Goliath (''You Bastard''), and well i know Angela's more cautious less aggressive and has more character than Ahsoka, but there are still some similarities, not to mention i read that Ahsoka will marry one of Anakin's Jedi Friends, much like how Angela marries one of Goliath's Clan (Broadway), so you guys get what i mean? Heck guys, i see in Star Wars The Clone Wars action that belongs in Gargoyles, Not Star Wars, like when padme, and commander cody were fightin with their fists and punching alot of people of their feet, heck also Padme in the movie had a personality resembling Elisa Maza. And Look, I'm not blaming CGI, I'm just saying i don't want the Gargoyles To look like Crap nor the Space Spawn, look In both Star Wars The Clone Wars TV And Movie they all look like crap, the animation looks cheap and the fighting movements aren't cool and realistic. Animators have lost it today! Even Disney's lost it, Look at Enchanted, Even 2D Animation looks like Crap, i don't want to see this happen to Gargoyles, cheesy fighting, Bad Dimensional characters & you know all that!
Daniel Abraham Raviv. - [dar111191 at gmail dot com]
Daniel Abraham Raviv.
posted @ Thu, Jan 1, 2009 8:52:29 pm EST from 24.7.204.215

ALGERNON> <<Right now Star Wars is pretty much in the same place Trek was post-DS9; the powers that be have clearly lost their creative spark>

... way back in 1980.

Start with "Star Wars." Stop with "Empire." Everything else that comes after can rot.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Register for the Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Temptation" is one of my favorite episodes because it features Demona beating up rednecks. God, how I hate rednecks!" -Me
posted @ Thu, Jan 1, 2009 8:22:33 pm EST from 24.205.39.101

Daniel> I think of Ahsoka more as Star Wars answer to Scrappy Doo. Plus CGI didn't ruin Star Wars, crappy writing and franchise exhaustion did.

Right now Star Wars is pretty much in the same place Trek was post-DS9; the powers that be have clearly lost their creative spark yet still insist on churning out a sub-standard product just to wring a few more drops of milk out of the cash cow.
Algernon
I'd rather be a climbing ape than a falling angel. -Terry Pratchett
posted @ Thu, Jan 1, 2009 8:17:10 pm EST from 86.41.211.201

Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeres JOHNNY!!

That Video KICKED ASS. Even though I'm not a hughe Star Wars Fan (thank you, EP 1-3), this was really cool. I prefer General Grievous EP3 version though. He was one of the few morbid things in the prequel series.
Brook
posted @ Thu, Jan 1, 2009 8:16:29 pm EST from 84.191.242.109

Daniel> "Clone Wars" was not ruined because of CGI. It was ruined by that hack, George Lucas.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Register for the Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Temptation" is one of my favorite episodes because it features Demona beating up rednecks. God, how I hate rednecks!" -Me
posted @ Thu, Jan 1, 2009 8:08:50 pm EST from 24.205.39.101

Which would be fine, if it doesn't ruin it, just saying.
Daniel Abraham Raviv. - [dar111191 at gmail dot com]
Daniel Abraham Raviv.
posted @ Thu, Jan 1, 2009 7:22:55 pm EST from 24.7.204.215

Grey Wolf > "Daniel: At this point, I don't care if they tell 2198 in the form of shadow puppets. I just wanna hear the story. I wanna hear that story so bad..."

HAHAHAHA!!! Oh wow, that was the perfect way to end the first day of 2009! Gargoyle shadow puppets, I want in on that! ^_^
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Thu, Jan 1, 2009 7:05:02 pm EST from 71.206.9.183

I don't know!
Daniel Abraham Raviv. - [dar111191 at gmail dot com]
Daniel Abraham Raviv.
posted @ Thu, Jan 1, 2009 6:34:44 pm EST from 24.7.204.215

Happy New Year! I hope 2009 will have the best Gargoyles news of 2009 of new comics like Gargoyles Clan Building Volume 2 and Bad Guys Trade paperback and Gargoyles Season 2, Volume 2 DVD.
Jonny Modlin - [jmodlin210 at gmail dot com]
Jonny Modlin
posted @ Thu, Jan 1, 2009 6:32:17 pm EST from 24.44.57.255

Me too, but not if it's ruined like Star Wars.
Daniel Abraham Raviv. - [dar111191 at gmail dot com]
Daniel Abraham Raviv.
posted @ Thu, Jan 1, 2009 6:26:51 pm EST from 24.7.204.215

Daniel: At this point, I don't care if they tell 2198 in the form of shadow puppets. I just wanna hear the story. I wanna hear that story so bad...
Grey Wolf
posted @ Thu, Jan 1, 2009 5:44:57 pm EST from 76.123.26.18

Oh and one last thing, After Star Wars The Clone Wars, PLEASE DON'T MAKE GARGOYLES 2198 CGI, PlEASE I'M BEGGING YOU!
Daniel Abraham Raviv. - [dar111191 at gmail dot com]
Daniel Abraham Raviv.
posted @ Thu, Jan 1, 2009 5:30:58 pm EST from 24.7.204.215

Well George Lucas owns the rights not Gennedy Taratovski. So it's his series practically. But look i know this comment room is only for Gargoyles i was just saying that I hated Star Wars The Clone Wars Movie and was watching alot of Gargoyles to heal me from it! But there's one last thing i want to say, Ahsoka Tano seems to me to be Star Wars's Answer To Angela but that's just my opinion i just see some similarities! Well i'm going back to watching the looney tunes marathon. Bye!
Daniel Abraham Raviv. - [dar111191 at gmail dot com]
Daniel Abraham Raviv.
posted @ Thu, Jan 1, 2009 5:27:52 pm EST from 24.7.204.215

Daniel: Just wanted to add, here's a peek at Tartakovsky's "Clone Wars." This is how General Grievous SHOULD have been in "Revenge of the Sith":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_wfL_9KDZE&feature=related
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"But see? That's what I'm talking about. Now Venture will send Samson after the rest of us and he'll go totally sickhouse on our asses! I like my ass, gentlemen." -The Monarch
posted @ Thu, Jan 1, 2009 3:36:09 pm EST from 76.27.174.85

Happy New Year, everyone!

Daniel: Another thing you could try watching would be Genndy Tartakovsky's "Clone Wars" animated series. Frankly, I'm not sure why George Lucas ever wanted to put the name Clone Wars on anything else. Tartakovsky nailed it.

Oh, wait, I remember why Lucas made the movie. Because he's a whore.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"But see? That's what I'm talking about. Now Venture will send Samson after the rest of us and he'll go totally sickhouse on our asses! I like my ass, gentlemen." -The Monarch
posted @ Thu, Jan 1, 2009 3:10:23 pm EST from 76.27.174.85

i'm just yah thatsssshhh it. *urp* you know what? i thik i'b got yah thatshhh it.

No, I had two drinks last night but no where near drunk or tipsy.

I had fun. Happy New Year all!
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Thu, Jan 1, 2009 2:03:56 pm EST from 75.156.190.146

I was sober last night but too tired to stay up and celebrate much. Strange, I never seem to have the energy to celebrate New Year's.

Oh well, Happy New Year everyone! Here's hoping for good Gargoyle news this year!
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Thu, Jan 1, 2009 10:23:32 am EST from 71.206.9.183

Happy New Year everyone! Got a new topic and of course December is in voting if you want to drop by and check out the artwork! ^_^ And January is self-portraits, so could be a fun way to get to know everyone!
kess - [< New Year, New Month!]
posted @ Thu, Jan 1, 2009 9:45:59 am EST from 68.188.142.25

Happy New Years everyone. Spending mine by watching some Looney Tunes episodes. Marathon is currently playing on Cartoon Network.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Thu, Jan 1, 2009 8:59:42 am EST from 71.120.226.102

Happy New Year! Here's to more good news for "Gargoyles" (whatever form it may take) in 2009!
Todd Jensen
www.gunnerkrigg.com/index2.php
posted @ Thu, Jan 1, 2009 7:26:00 am EST from 4.244.208.27

I'm sober now, but my head hurts. Happy new year everyone!
Ozzie Arcane - [ozziearcane at yahoo dot com]
"Hello Booby! This is a trap!" - Eggplant Wizard
posted @ Thu, Jan 1, 2009 6:57:36 am EST from 69.14.122.91

No, I'm Sober too! I'm not drinking to rid me of the terrible feeling from Star Wars The Clone Wars, I'm just watching and reading some Good Old Gargoyles Tv Series And Comics.
Daniel Abraham Raviv. - [dar111191 at gmail dot com]
Daniel Abraham Raviv.
posted @ Thu, Jan 1, 2009 5:14:49 am EST from 24.7.204.215

Out of inane curiosity, am I the only (overage) person here who is 100% sober?
Spen
"What if this wasn't a hypothetical question?"
posted @ Thu, Jan 1, 2009 5:00:38 am EST from 66.43.205.110

Holy Shmoly, I just finished watching Star Wars The Clone Wars Animated Movie, yuck! I've got a watch alot of Gargoyles Episodes To Recover.
Daniel Abraham Raviv. - [dar111191 at gmail dot com]
Daniel Abraham Raviv.
posted @ Thu, Jan 1, 2009 4:02:06 am EST from 24.7.204.215

Just about 15 minutes to go, and I've already been hearing fireworks going off in the distance in the last hour...

Anyway, a good new year to all!

I'm off to bed. My headache is getting worse...
The One Known As Mochi - [shogi dot keima dot 08 at gmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>**)> Headache...
posted @ Thu, Jan 1, 2009 2:44:53 am EST from 72.220.182.186

Happy New Year, one and all... of course I must wait another thirty minutes... but,

heh heh

I'm tipsy.. yes I am. Tipsy, and loving it.

I should end this post before I start getting too honest.

Have fun, all!
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Register for the Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Temptation" is one of my favorite episodes because it features Demona beating up rednecks. God, how I hate rednecks!" -Me
posted @ Thu, Jan 1, 2009 2:30:17 am EST from 24.205.39.101

HaPpY nEw YeAr EvErYoNe!

WhOo!

Wow, typing from an iPod touch is hard. Too much hassle...
lonerider26 - [lonerider26 at gmail dot com]
"The story is told--though who can say if it be true..."~Shari
posted @ Thu, Jan 1, 2009 2:24:44 am EST from 76.16.10.90

From Phoenix, AZ . . . Happy New Year!

Goodbye 2008, and hello 2009 baby!
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Thu, Jan 1, 2009 2:21:10 am EST from 68.98.115.219

Happy new year, everyone!

Here's hoping it's a better year than last. (Or at least, no worse.) It certainly got off to a better start.
Spen
"What if this wasn't a hypothetical question?"
posted @ Thu, Jan 1, 2009 2:11:45 am EST from 66.43.205.110

Happy new year!
Asatira
posted @ Thu, Jan 1, 2009 1:20:05 am EST from 68.190.20.172

Greg B: Heh, you don't have to defend Oberon for me. I already said I like him; it's just that he's a woobie (if you don't know what that means, it's an affectionate way of calling someone a big baby).

As to Titania, I already said I don't totally trust her- too manipulative. What I mean is I don't think she was burning villages to the ground or anything ABSOLUTELY UNFORGIVABLE in 995. I can't see her topping Demona.

Everyone: Happy New Year!
Grey Wolf
posted @ Thu, Jan 1, 2009 12:20:37 am EST from 76.123.26.18

D.Taina> Happy New Year for you? I see you're posting from a year in the future. Tell me the lotto numbers!
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Register for the Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Temptation" is one of my favorite episodes because it features Demona beating up rednecks. God, how I hate rednecks!" -Me
posted @ Wed, Dec 31, 2008 11:51:11 pm EST from 24.205.39.101

Happy new year, everybody!!
D. Taina
"The story is told -- though who can say if it be true..." -Shari
posted @ Wed, Dec 31, 2008 11:19:53 pm EST from 74.213.121.140

Shakespeare did NOT invent the name. Ovid did. Shakespeare was the first to use that name for the fairy queen.
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2009]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Wed, Dec 31, 2008 10:19:02 pm EST from 173.88.151.62

Just a thought. I watched "Deadly Force" again, and I was thinking. Okay, Owen was apparently going to buy back the weapons Dracon stole at the beginning of the episode. But I wonder, did Xanatos really intend to pay Dracon off?

Elisa got shot, Dracon was the leading suspect, he stole Xanatos's guns. Owen and Xanatos had to know this. So, it makes me wonder if Owen sending Goliath off to Manhattan General, where he learned about Dracon being the leading suspect in Elisa's near fatality, was all another plan by Xanatos to have Dracon dealt with so he could both recover the guns and send a message to the mobs not to mess with him.

"Mr. Xanatos had to get the guns back somehow. Excellent job by the way, he will be pleased you have recovered his property."

Of course, Goliath ended up destroying the weapons instead, but still...
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Register for the Gathering of the Gargoyles]
posted @ Wed, Dec 31, 2008 9:12:15 pm EST from 24.205.39.101

It's just gone 2am Jan 1st 2009 HAPPY NEW YEAR everyone, I just got back from bowling and had a few drinks with my sister and nephew and few other friends and now i've got to go to bed.
VickyUK - [vickyfanofwwe at aol dot com]
posted @ Wed, Dec 31, 2008 9:07:06 pm EST from 205.188.117.134

HAPPY NEW YEAR!

Ah 2009, almost a decade into the new millenium and I still don't have a flying car.
Algernon
I'd rather be a climbing ape than a falling angel. -Terry Pratchett
posted @ Wed, Dec 31, 2008 8:32:13 pm EST from 86.41.192.16

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!

Greg B.: "Daniel> <<Also Titania is not Shakespeare's Invention, she did appear in Mythology before, I have a really old book that predates Shakespeare and has her in it!>>

Really? What is the title of this book? Who is the author? What is the ISBN. What does this book say that thousands of credible scholars don't know? And why do you have this book and no one else does?d4486f

Cite your source, or it's non-existent."

I don't want to interfer - but isn't naming the title of the book enough?

I mean, sure, it is important to cite your source (sometimes), but is ISBN really necessary?? (especially if this is a, uh, "really old book" ;) )

But yeah, a quick wiki look also revealed that Shakespeare invented that name...

But then again, it IS Wiki, so it MUST be true. ;)

I'd love to see a student of anglistic history talking about this in here...
Brook
posted @ Wed, Dec 31, 2008 8:01:18 pm EST from 84.191.247.109

Going out with friends to see 2009 come in (and to get drunk.).

So, before I head out, Just wanted to say, Happy New Year's, everyone.

See you all in '09. :)
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Wed, Dec 31, 2008 7:44:58 pm EST from 99.54.146.67

D. Taina> Genius! Thanks so much! I would never have thought about using Google. Also, thanks for finding that about Santa Claus. I knew I remembered Greg using the phrase "one way or another", but I couldn't remember the context.
Supermorff
posted @ Wed, Dec 31, 2008 7:25:45 pm EST from 69.137.4.125

Happy Hogmanay, everybody! That's the official term for New Year's Eve over in Scotland. There it's said to be good luck if the first person to cross the threshold in the new year is tall and dark. (Goliath would fit that description, but I don't think too many Scottish humans would be keen on him entering their homes.)
Todd Jensen
www.gunnerkrigg.com/index2.php
posted @ Wed, Dec 31, 2008 6:30:20 pm EST from 4.244.208.18

Here's a hint. Go to Google, type site: and the URL to Ask Greg (without spaces), then type in the keywords. You can search the archives that way until the search function is fixed.

This is what Greg had to say about Santa Claus:
http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=6405
D. Taina
"The story is told -- though who can say if it be true..." -Shari
posted @ Wed, Dec 31, 2008 5:06:10 pm EST from 74.213.121.140

Because the search function is still down on Ask Greg, I can't check this for certain, but did Greg actually say he had story ideas for Santa Claus, or did he say that he planned to use everything eventually and that Santa Claus would appear "one way or another"?

I've now pretty much convinced myself that Greg has specific ideas for Dracula and Sherlock Holmes, but I'm less convinced that he has SPECIFIC ideas about Santa Claus. But I could be wrong about one of these, or both, or (possibly) neither.
Supermorff
posted @ Wed, Dec 31, 2008 3:52:05 pm EST from 69.137.4.125

bluewyvern> Greg did set up a link for a page for Sherlock Holmes on GargWiki and then we started talking about Santa Claus a bit, so I think it might have just been a little confusion. I don't think there's a Santa Claus article yet.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Wed, Dec 31, 2008 3:22:22 pm EST from 146.115.115.33

Todd> I don't read the wiki much myself, but I thought someone said something in here recently about Greg adding a new, blank entry to the wiki for Santa Claus, to everyone's perplexion. But I just had a look now, and it's not there. So did I just make that up? Now I'm confused.
bluewyvern
"Attend the petty jealousies and angers that prey upon your heart."
posted @ Wed, Dec 31, 2008 2:32:36 pm EST from 69.112.108.43

The name Titania had been in usage before Shakespeare, but he was the first to associate it with the fairy queen.

"In traditional folklore, the fairy queen has no name. Shakespeare took the name 'Titania' from Ovid's Metamorphoses, where it is an appellation given to the daughters of Titans."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titania
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2009]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Wed, Dec 31, 2008 1:50:06 pm EST from 76.205.124.43

I know speculation doesn't get us anywhere, it's easier to just be patient and wait for Greg W or SLG to announce the release dates, but I just had a thought. What would make January more viable as a release month, possibly, is not just SLG selling the comic collections directly from their site, but doing it by way of "print-to-order". Meaning, maybe they'd take orders most of the month, total 'em up, send that number off to the printer's, then ship 'em out to everyone. At least as an initial wave of getting it out there.

I don't know if print-to-order comics are as cost-efficient as CDs and DVDs (Amazon.com and Amazon.ca's massive success with Joss Whedon's "Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog" are what got me thinking on this), but plenty of online stores (Cafe Press chief among them, along with a ton of other artist-friendly sites) allow individuals and companies to sell their prints, posters, and comics without having to worry about leftover stock.
Kris - [plekopleko at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Wed, Dec 31, 2008 1:48:55 pm EST from 69.17.187.216

Sorry for the double post.

Daniel> <<Also Titania is not Shakespeare's Invention, she did appear in Mythology before, I have a really old book that predates Shakespeare and has her in it!>>

Really? What is the title of this book? Who is the author? What is the ISBN. What does this book say that thousands of credible scholars don't know? And why do you have this book and no one else does?d4486f

Cite your source, or it's non-existent.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Register for the Gathering of the Gargoyles]
posted @ Wed, Dec 31, 2008 12:46:52 pm EST from 24.205.39.101

Daniel> Have you seen "City of Stone"? Have you?

Now, think about this logically. How could Shakespeare's Macbeth have taken place in the "Gargoyles Universe" alongside what we saw in "City of Stone" considering how the two contradict each other in places, outright.

No, what Greg has said in the past is that Shakespeare did in fact write his plays in the "Gargoyles Universe." He and Macbeth were even drinking buddies, although, Shakespeare didn't know his friend was actually Macbeth. Mac was even amused by the play and not offended.

Yes, a version of "A Midsummer Night's Dream" did take place in the "Gargoyles Universe." But it didn't happen exactly as Shakespeare wrote it. For one thing, the play took place in ancient Greece. Whereas Greg has long since revealed that not only was Oberon not yet ruler of the Third Race during that time period (Mab was), he and Titania weren't even married yet!

So, no, you misunderstood Greg.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Register for the Gathering of the Gargoyles]
posted @ Wed, Dec 31, 2008 12:41:50 pm EST from 24.205.39.101

I think Greg will inform us if something is ready. Disney has to approve it, it has to be printed, shipped etc. So yeah, late Jan early Feb might work out. But that would be the fastest. As long as it won't be a 6 month delay...
Brook
posted @ Wed, Dec 31, 2008 12:41:33 pm EST from 84.191.219.154

Despite what everyone has been saying, part of me is still hopeful for a Jan release. Halfway through October, as seen in DPH's post, Greg W said they would be out in Jan. And the fact that Greg W himself was here a little bit ago asking us what color Hudson's eye is when it glows assures us that something is getting colored. And if Greg W knew of a delay, like an artist got sick and one comic is really behind in coloring or the script of the last comic has to be rewritten, he would have told us about a delay like that in a Ramble.

So, Im still hopeful that the comics will be released in Jan. Knowing my luck, theyll be released in late Jan when Im back in school and with no comic store close at hand, but at least theyll be out. Im crossing my fingers that Greg W might give us an update as a New Year's gift to us =3
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Wed, Dec 31, 2008 11:20:37 am EST from 71.206.9.183

I didn't say yea or nay about a January release date for either. All I said was I was hoping they would be released in January. Frankly, I'm not in a position to know about a January release date. The last any of us have heard relating to a release of a comic is http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=10977 .
dph_of_rules
Whatever happened to simplicity?
posted @ Wed, Dec 31, 2008 10:30:00 am EST from 98.20.130.50

Perfect! Thanks so much, Tony! ^_^
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Wed, Dec 31, 2008 9:59:27 am EST from 71.206.9.183

Litwolf> Vernal equinox is in March, and Autumnal equinox is in September. For the exact date each year from 2000 to 2010 go here:
http://www.hermetic.ch/cal_sw/ve/ve.htm
The Gargoyles Pulse
~ Tony Tini
posted @ Wed, Dec 31, 2008 9:56:44 am EST from 159.240.11.254

I wanted to ask a question for fanfiction writing purposes: reading the 'Egg' entry on GargWiki, it says that the actual mating and conception of a gargoyle egg takes place during the Autumn Equinox, the egg grows for six months, and then is laid on the Spring Equinox. Do you know what month these two Equinoxs take place, or what time over several months?
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Wed, Dec 31, 2008 8:50:44 am EST from 71.206.9.183

@ Daniel: Hm... you sure? I always had the image of the events taking place but Shakespeare altering them in the Garg Universe (see the refference of how MACBETH was an altered version of the Garg-Universe-Version that was, uh, altered from reality).

As for Christmas EPs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YE921elUqUs

Have fun!!! :)

Oh, and I hope everybody has a happy new year.
Brook
posted @ Wed, Dec 31, 2008 8:43:46 am EST from 84.191.228.216

Oh and the Each uisge too http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Each_uisge, it would make a great child Of Oberon, or A New Olympian (Or A Descendant of it!)
Daniel Abraham Raviv. - [dar111191 at gmail dot com]
Daniel Abraham Raviv.
posted @ Wed, Dec 31, 2008 7:53:54 am EST from 24.7.204.215

I found this picture while searching Mythological beings, again I'm not giving advice I'm just saying it would be cool if they were in Gargoyles, here's a creature i found called a Nøkken which here, i have a picture of it http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/da/Noekken_01c.jpg, it's a water spirit that, well go to that website and you can read all about it! i think it would make a great Child of Oberon or New Olympian (Or at least one of it's descendants) so what do you guys think about El Pachuco, Puca' And The Nøkken?
Daniel Abraham Raviv. - [dar111191 at gmail dot com]
Daniel Abraham Raviv.
posted @ Wed, Dec 31, 2008 7:49:13 am EST from 24.7.204.215

Puca' should also make an appearance In Gargoyles, either as his own separate character, another cultures name for the Puck, or as one of Puck's Identities (Which means he has earlier encounters with humans and relationships with them prior to working with Xanatos, as according to legend, Puca' lets people ride him in the form of a horse), Yes El Pachuco and Puca' should both appear in Gargoyles, again either as their own separate Oberon's Children characters, or as other Cultures names for The Puck, or as one of Puck's Identities!
Daniel Abraham Raviv. - [dar111191 at gmail dot com]
Daniel Abraham Raviv.
posted @ Wed, Dec 31, 2008 7:28:06 am EST from 24.7.204.215

No, i asked him myself in The 2008 Gathering if A Midsummer Night's Dream And Shakespeare's Macbeth took place In The Gargoyles Universe, he said yes that they both take place In The Gargoyles Universe, and he might use their characters for future stories! I know, i was the one who asked him (To tell you the truth, all i really wanted to know is if Cobweb, Mustardseed, And The Other of Titania's Fairies appear in The Gargoyles Universe which he will not answer, so i just asked him if the plays took place and if the characters from them appear in The Gargoyles Universe.) Also Titania is not Shakespeare's Invention, she did appear in Mythology before, I have a really old book that predates Shakespeare and has her in it! Also guys, i hear about your talk of Puck being Santa Clause, and while i don't know if it's true, i must admit it would be fun, you know guys, they should put El Pachuco In Gargoyles, he's the Mexican Version Of Puck, although his most famous appearance is in the play, Zoot Suit. He'd be perfect to be one of Oberon's Children, either as his own separate Character or as one of Puck's Identities (Similar to How The Gorloi, which are separate creatures in Mythology, Are in The Gargoyles Universe, The Atlantean name for Gargoyles) I Think it would be pretty cool!
Daniel Abraham Raviv. - [dar111191 at gmail dot com]
Daniel Abraham Raviv.
posted @ Wed, Dec 31, 2008 7:20:51 am EST from 24.7.204.215

BLUEWYVERN - What new wiki entry? Was there a "Santa Claus" entry at the GargWiki that I haven't seen yet?

Though we do know that Greg Weisman had planned a story involving Santa Claus.

KRIS - The Weird Sisters *are* Children of Oberon, but I think you'd better watch the "Avalon" three-parter again. It can answer your questions better than I can.
Todd Jensen
www.gunnerkrigg.com/index2.php
posted @ Wed, Dec 31, 2008 7:04:31 am EST from 4.244.212.19

If Puck is the Garg-verse version of Santa Claus/Saint Nick/Father Xmas...that'd be hilarious. How many other roles could he possibly have ? They're nigh immortal, right, so how many identities WOULD a trickster like him amass in god knows how long of a lifetime ?

I'm having memory lapse because I know this has come up before...are the Weird Sisters of the Third Race, or are they something different. They interfered in mortal affairs, were there any repercussions ? They couldn't set foot on Avalon and sent the Archmage along with Demona and Macbeth to do that instead, if I'm remembering right (or was it them that the Magus confronted by Arthur's resting place? I vaguely remember him fending either them or the Archmage off, borrowing some of Avalon's magic. I really need a DVD rewatch)...is that because of Oberon's 1001 year exile of his children/kin, or because they'd been banned for the Demona/Macbeth manipulations ?
Kris - [plekopleko at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Wed, Dec 31, 2008 5:30:19 am EST from 69.17.187.216

Todd> Thanks for that summary. I've always wanted to know more instances of Avalon's First Faerie Family appearing in other sources. I was surprised to hear that Shakespeare invented Titania...I had no idea.

Puck's history, of course, is much longer and more interesting. I immediately thought of the Pooka, too. These Wikipedia pages make good reads:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puck_(mythology)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pooka

One bit is especially interesting.

"Puck's trademark laugh in the early ballads is "Ho ho ho." In modern mythology, the "merry old elf" who works with magical swiftness unseen in the night, who can "descry each thing that's done beneath the moone", whom we propitiate with a glass of milk, lest he put lumps of coal in the stockings we hang by the hob with care, and whose trademark laugh is "Ho ho ho"-is Santa Claus."

Have we found an explanation for our mysterious new wiki entry? Now I'm really intrigued.
bluewyvern
"Attend the petty jealousies and angers that prey upon your heart."
posted @ Tue, Dec 30, 2008 11:29:59 pm EST from 69.112.108.43

Greg B > My mistake. I misunderstood you. Sorry. You are correct in this matter.
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Tue, Dec 30, 2008 10:40:17 pm EST from 71.206.9.183

MATT> It's not just you. I e-mailed JEB, and I believe he's looking into it. Hopefully this will all be resolved soon.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Register for the Gathering of the Gargoyles]
posted @ Tue, Dec 30, 2008 10:37:29 pm EST from 24.205.39.101

Anyone else having issues with the GargWiki? I'm getting all sorts of errors, but only on some pages and not others...
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
FREE TIBET! with purchase of tibet of equal or greater value (offer not valid in china)
posted @ Tue, Dec 30, 2008 10:34:10 pm EST from 70.237.136.48

Litwolf> I didn't say that Macbeth hadn't seen the play and wasn't amused by it. I know he did.

What Daniel was saying, that was wrong, is that Shakespeare's version of Macbeth actually happened in the Gargoyles Universe.

Macbeth did not murder Duncan in his sleep. Gruoch was not the evil and manipulative 'see you next Tuesday' that she was in the play. MacDuff did not kill Macbeth. Etc, etc.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Register for the Gathering of the Gargoyles]
posted @ Tue, Dec 30, 2008 10:07:05 pm EST from 24.205.39.101

Greg B > Daniel> Okay, now I know you misunderstood him. Shakespeare's version of Macbeth obviously didn't happen in the "Gargoyles Universe."

Are you sure? I thought Greg W said that Macbeth had actually seen Shakespeare's Macbeth at its very first performance and had been amused by Shakespeare's interpritation of his life.

I wish the 'Search' function was working because I could have sworn I had read that on here.
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Tue, Dec 30, 2008 9:47:51 pm EST from 71.206.9.183

Grey Wolf> I think you're missing the part where Greg said that Titania was much worse prior to the 1001 year banishment.

The Titania of 1996 is not the Titania of 995.

And keep in mind, it was Oberon who forbade the Third Race to interfere in mortal affairs. When Queen Mab was in power, I am sure things were very different.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Register for the Gathering of the Gargoyles]
posted @ Tue, Dec 30, 2008 9:43:21 pm EST from 24.205.39.101

Mrr, I think 'Puck' was derived from 'puca' (also pucca, pooka, phooka) which were mischievous Celtic faeries. They often caused chaos, but rarely (if ever) actually hurt anyone.

As to the millennium long banishment; Oberon must have had his reasons, but I don't think it was anything SUPERMEGAWFUL. We all know this guy has a temper. Like divorcing his wife for 1000 years, not apologizing, trying to kidnap an infant because his woman told him to, and crippling and banishing his friend.
Don't get me wrong, I like him, but he needs anger management classes.

.... Am I the only one who doesn't totally trust Titania? She's very manipulative, if mostly well-meaning, and is willing to sacrifice others for what she wants.
Grey Wolf
Happy Holidays!
posted @ Tue, Dec 30, 2008 9:25:57 pm EST from 76.123.26.18

Daniel> Okay, now I know you misunderstood him. Shakespeare's version of Macbeth obviously didn't happen in the "Gargoyles Universe."
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Register for the Gathering of the Gargoyles]
posted @ Tue, Dec 30, 2008 9:18:37 pm EST from 24.205.39.101

No, Greg said that A Midsummer Nights Dream And Shakespeare's Macbeth did take place In The Gargoyles Universe. He said so in the 2008 Gathering.
Daniel Abraham Raviv. - [dar111191 at gmail dot com]
Daniel Abraham Raviv.
posted @ Tue, Dec 30, 2008 9:04:57 pm EST from 24.7.204.215

Greg B> I imagine Titania must have done something pretty damn hardcore for Oberon to consider banishing his entire race an equitable punishment.

Interestingly, the 1001 year banishment must have occurred within a year or two of the Wyvern massacre. Not sure what significance (if any) that has but nothing seems to be a coincidence in the Gargoyles Universe.
Algernon
I'd rather be a climbing ape than a falling angel. -Terry Pratchett
posted @ Tue, Dec 30, 2008 8:51:47 pm EST from 213.94.183.244

KRIS - Oberon and Puck both predated Shakespeare, but Titania appears to have been his invention. In the other faerie legends of around Shakespeare's time, Mab was the fairy queen, and some stories even made her Oberon's consort. (I *hope* that didn't happen in the Gargoyles Universe - that would be way too unsettling, except maybe for Christine Morgan.) Some scholars believe that Titania was a variant on Diana in her role as moon goddess; it fits that "A Midsummer Night's Dream" makes several references to the moon.

Oberon appears in a few stories about the faerie-folk before Shakespeare, or contemporary with him. In "Huon of Bordeaux", he's portrayed as a kind of "faerie godfather" to Huon, one of Charlemagne's paladins, helping him on his many adventures and even naming him his heir as the ruler over the fairies on Avalon. (King Arthur protests this, saying that if rule over Avalon should go to a human, it ought to be to him; Oberon states that he's chosen Huon, is not changing his mind, and threatens to curse Arthur with lycanthropy if he continues to protest. Huon intervenes to suggest that he and Arthur govern Avalon together.) He's also described as unusually short thanks to an angry fairy's curse at his christening, Maleficient-style (some scholars think that Oberon originated from the dwarf Alberich - the same Alberich whom Wagner incorporated into his "Ring" Cycle; the short stature definitely clashes with Oberon swelling to giant-size in "The Gathering", of course), and the son of Julius Caesar and Morgan le Fay. Edmund Spenser includes Oberon in his "Faerie Queene" as the father of Gloriana, the faerie queen of the title (I wonder if Gloriana could be Oberon and Titania's daughter in the Gargoyles Universe).

Puck was portrayed in early legends as a malevolent demon, though Shakespeare mellowed him into a fun-loving trickster. He and Robin Goodfellow might have originally been separate figures fused by Shakespeare; Robin Goodfellow was portrayed as the son of Oberon by a human woman (though we know that that isn't true in the Gargoyles Universe) and a household spirit (which might fit in with Puck's alter ego being Owen - who doesn't use magic to run things in Xanatos's household, but does display an impressive efficiency in carrying out his tasks).

I've sometimes speculated that Titania could have been the original of "La Belle Dame Sans Merci" (a beautiful fairy who would seduce men and then abandon them, leaving them to pine away in despair; Keats wrote a famous poem about it), and even that those acts of hers were the catalyst for Oberon divorcing her (more for the lack of caring over the fate of the humans whom she toyed with than over the infidelity, naturally - he was more amused than displeased over Titania's marriage to Renard). We know that, even after the thousand years of gaining maturity, she still finds it difficult to stay interested in any mate other than Oberon (which was why she left Renard).
Todd Jensen
www.gunnerkrigg.com/index2.php
posted @ Tue, Dec 30, 2008 6:34:06 pm EST from 4.244.209.60

Kris > My highschool performed 'A Midsummer Night's Dream' and I was given a non-speaking role of an attendant. I memorized the whole thing. From what I remember, the Fae did not really care about humans. They thought of them more as playthings, creatures that are amusing to mess with. I dont think humans were ever truly looked down on or meant any harm; they were just fun to play tricks on.
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Tue, Dec 30, 2008 5:32:48 pm EST from 71.206.9.183

immortal, that is. D'oh.
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2009]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Tue, Dec 30, 2008 5:32:32 pm EST from 76.205.124.43

Greg B. > Well, what would be the extreme for a mortal with a superiority complex? Q from ST:TNG?
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2009]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Tue, Dec 30, 2008 5:32:11 pm EST from 76.205.124.43

Are there any clues in Shakespeare ? We didn't do "A Midsummer Night's Dream" in highschool. I know we can't take the inspirations for some of the myths included in Gargoyles as canon for the characters as they were depicted on the show (ie, Macbeth being much moreso the historical Macbeth than the murderous dude in the play with the evil manipulative wife), but there's nothing else to go on outside of what Greg W's said and he got his inspiration from the source material, so maybe he's kept some of it in mind and has incorporated it into the canon in his head.

Shakespeare didn't invent the concept of fairies/The Fair Folk, but were Oberon, Titania, and Puck part of superstition/legend/English folklore/storytelling traditions before the bard started writing ?
Kris - [plekopleko at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Tue, Dec 30, 2008 5:05:06 pm EST from 69.17.187.216

Just a thought on Oberon and Titania. More specifically, Titania. The fandom tends to dismiss Oberon as a big, blue jerk, who Titania has wrapped around her finger. Even in fanfiction taking place before the 1001 year banishment, Titania is depicted as, well, much as she is now.

But, if you watch the show, Oberon divorced Titania because of her disdain for mortals. Apparently, once upon a time, he was one of the most humble of the Third Race. He wanted Titania and the rest of the Children to live among the mortals to learn humility. And they did, and everything being relative, he didn't learn his own lesson and hence he appears more arrogant and less humble than most of them.

Which leads me to wonder. Just how bad was Titania once upon a time? What did she do?

Even Greg said that one of the reasons Queen Mab didn't approve of Titania is that she thought Titania was a spoiled brat and beneath her son. And Mab is supposed to be the crazy one!

How bad was she?
Greg Bishansky - [<----- Thirteenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
posted @ Tue, Dec 30, 2008 4:33:37 pm EST from 24.205.39.101

Kris> I think Greg B. gets Previews so if there's something in there I'm sure he'll share it with us if there is anything to share.

I just checked Diamond's site and nothing Gargoyles related is coming Jan 2nd or 7th.

I'll check again in a few weeks for 13th, 20th, and 27th. Are we certain that SLG will be using Diamond to distribute their Trade Paperbacks? I assume so, right, since there isn't anyone else and they aren't going to do it themselves!?
The Gargoyles Pulse
~ Tony Tini
posted @ Tue, Dec 30, 2008 9:45:30 am EST from 159.240.11.254

Just some interesting info for Ed Asner fans: Over Christmas break, I got to visit with a cousin of mine who works for Disney. I asked him what he's currently working on, and he said that he just met with Ed Asner for the next Pixar movie called "Up". I mentioned how Asner played Hudson in Gargoyles, and my cousin remembered the show, saying he started with Disney when Gargoyles was on the air. Being a Gargoyles fan, I found this really interesting, and was a tad jealous that he got to do the voiceovers with some of the cast and crew of Gargoyles (which I hadn't even known until he told me last week). Just thought I'd share that with other Gargoyles and Ed Asner fans.
Charisma82
Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies.
posted @ Tue, Dec 30, 2008 5:13:30 am EST from 64.13.117.74

A couple people asked about the potential for January release dates of Gargoyles trades again (DPH I'm pretty sure correctly said tonight that it's not happening though). The only way this could conceivably happen is if Slave Labor Graphics decided to sell the collected comics through their web store and not bother with advertising it a couple months in advance through the Previews Catalogue and having it distribted through Diamond (the way every issue of Clan-Building and Bad Guys was handled, as well as the Clan-Building collection). That would likely be shooting themselves in the foot. Previews is HUGE exposure, worth the cost of advertising through, plus its listings get posted online so people who don't get the catalogue can see what's coming out in the future.

The January Previews came out last week (I didn't bother going to my store because I figured Xmas might've delayed its arrival until this week). Has anyone here picked up that Previews catalogue ? If "Gargoyles: Clan Building Volume 2" and/or the complete "Bad Guys" TPB were advertised in the Slave Labor/Amaze Ink section of the Comics pre-orders, then we're looking good for a March release of at least one of those. If not, the soonest we'll see either is April.

I did a quick online search and it doesn't look like anyone's posted about SLG's solicitations for March `09 yet. Someone in the fandom has to be on top of this though, check around the other Gargoyles sites.
Kris - [plekopleko at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Tue, Dec 30, 2008 1:53:28 am EST from 69.17.187.216

I'd go with it being remembered fondly, but not with the same appeal it has now. Considering that the show didn't have a source material (like Batman The Animated Series having material from the comics and the Tim Burton films) to draw from makes the outcome very impressive.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Tue, Dec 30, 2008 12:51:52 am EST from 71.120.226.102

Sorry for the double!

Tony> Hooray! Another Gavin and Stacey fan here. A very new one, actually -- my mother forcibly introduced me to the show recently with a couple intensive viewing marathons over Thanksgiving and Christmas visits that got us through the first series. Now I love it. :) Drove my stepfather crazy, though!
bluewyvern
"Attend the petty jealousies and angers that prey upon your heart."
posted @ Mon, Dec 29, 2008 11:37:17 pm EST from 69.112.108.43

Greg B./Robby>I disagree, I think it's actually an interesting question, which is a treat in a room this old. But Robby, as Greg B. has pointed out in the past, you often do drive-bys, firing questions without ever sticking around to answer them yourself...what do *you* think?

If we'd gotten the Gargoyles comedy pitch, I probably would have been young enough at the time to watch it, and may well have liked it. The "mythical creatures with wings" pitch was enough to make me sit up and take notice, and at the time it wasn't clear that we *wouldn't* be getting a Disney comedy show anyway. (Well...I guess those moody posters with Goliath brooding over the city like some Dark Knight were a hint.) But I highly doubt it would have stuck with me...at best I probably would have remembered it fondly, like an Inspector Gadget or a Darkwing Duck, but without actually being willing to sit through a whole episode in adulthood. I've noticed a lot of you in here seem to have a taste for children's cartoons, but it's not one that I share. I love animation aimed at adults, but cartoons, with rare exceptions like, maybe, Pinky and the Brain, are just too frenetic and simplistic to capture my attention for long. I was never interested in any of Greg's other children's cartoon projects, for instance. Gargoyles is special. I still wonder some days how something so different from the usual got out of the gate. Sometimes I think Disney wonders that, too.
bluewyvern
"Attend the petty jealousies and angers that prey upon your heart."
posted @ Mon, Dec 29, 2008 11:31:36 pm EST from 69.112.108.43

And No, Everyone in A Christmas Carol has Character, and Scrooge Deserted Belle, Not The Other Way Around. By The Way, it's not one of my top favorite Alternate Realities but Scrooge's Future had he continued to be rude and selfish is also pretty cool.
Daniel Abraham Raviv. - [dar111191 at gmail dot com]
Daniel Abraham Raviv.
posted @ Mon, Dec 29, 2008 9:22:24 pm EST from 24.7.204.215

Thx, Oh by the way, not that i'm saying something irrelevant to what's going on, but (I always wanted to Ask This) Is anyone else here, a big fan of the Episode, Future Tense (Not Gargoyles 2198, but alternate Dystopian Episode created by Puck to get the phoenix gate) It's one of My Top 4 Favorite Alternate Dystopian Realities in Fiction, The Others being The Alternate Biff Ruled Hill Valley In Back To The Future Part 2, The World In which George Bailey was never born in It's A Wonderful Life, And X-Men's Days Of Future Past. I love it when Shows, Movies, Comics and even Radio Serials (Like In A Batman Radio Show in which Batman ended up In A Joker Ruled Future, Not to be confused with the Emperor Joker comic which is another good one) have These Alternate Dystopian Futures or Presents! Does Anyone agree with Me?
Daniel Abraham Raviv. - [dar111191 at gmail dot com]
Daniel Abraham Raviv.
posted @ Mon, Dec 29, 2008 9:19:15 pm EST from 24.7.204.215

Robby> My guess is that the comedy treatment would have been received about as well as most of the other action-comedy shows on the Disney Afternoon. It might have had a little more of a long term following just because the concept would still be very novel and interesting. But I doubt we would be discussing the minutia of the series all these years later had the comedy development gone forward and I'm almost certain there wouldn't have been a new comic. What's kept my interest and that of most fans alive is not just the fact that there were plans for more material, but the fact that the existing material featured so much character development and continuing story. Animated comedies with real story continuity are still a rare thing. Heck, there were plans for a "TaleSpin" movie and I liked that series, but I'm much less invested in seeing that done than more "Gargoyles".

Battle Beast> I think there is a difference if you're someone who recognizes that personal feelings do play a role in what movies you like. I don't know if "Beauty and the Beast" is really the best animated feature ever made, but it is my favorite and i realize that some of that has to do with how it speaks to me personally and the kind of person I was when I first saw it.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Mon, Dec 29, 2008 8:04:48 pm EST from 146.115.115.33

Adam> No news. I look at SLG every week.

Off topic, some good news: Gavin and Stacey is coming back for a third season. I hope it doesn't take a year to get the US.
The Gargoyles Pulse
~ Tony Tini
posted @ Mon, Dec 29, 2008 4:46:18 pm EST from 159.240.11.254

@ Battle: Sure. It's like with films. Or records. EYES WIDE SHUT might be my favourite Kubrick film, but CLOCKWORK ORANGE is his best by miles.

KID A will always be my favourite Radiohead album, but OK COMPUTER is a lot "better".
Brook
posted @ Mon, Dec 29, 2008 4:44:33 pm EST from 84.191.213.49

Robby> Your question is a hypothetical, and really, kind of pointless. Maybe, maybe not. Who knows?
Greg Bishansky
Did you ever notice, the only one in A Christmas Carol with any character is Scrooge? Marley is a whiner who fucked over the world and then hadn't the spine to pay his dues quietly; Belle, Scrooge's ex-girlfriend, deserted him when he needed her most; Bob Cratchit is a gutless toady without enough get-up-and-go to assert himself; and the less said about that little treacle-mouth, Tiny Tim, the better.
posted @ Mon, Dec 29, 2008 2:17:08 pm EST from 24.205.39.101

Ugh, dont you hate it when you type out a nice, thought-out post and then erase it by mistake?

Robby > The Comedy Pitch? Oh, the original comedy that Gargoyles would have been before they made the plot more serious! It took me a second to realize what you meant.

Um... honestly, I have no idea. I havnt memorized the notes Greg W has been nice enough to share with us but, from what I have read, I get the feeling the comedy would not have been taken seriously. Now, its a children's show, so it was meant to be silly and odd, to catch the kids' attention. But, in that light, I doubt it would have attracted older viewers and gain such a fanbase.

Personally, at the age I was when Gargoyles was first on the air, I would have watched the comedy pitch of Gargoyles. My only true memory of watching Gargoyles when I was that young was seeing a shot of the Gargoyles flying and thinking how cool they were. I was too young to comprehend and enjoy the plots and the characters so I enjoyed it for the Gargoyles themselves. However, if Gargoyles had been kept to a comedy-adventure, I would probably not be here talking to you right now. I would remember Gargoyles with the same fondness as the other cartoons I watched in my youth, such as Gummi Gears, Tale Spin, and Care Bears. I enjoyed them when I was a child but have no desire to watch something like that now, unless Im taking care of my younger cousins.

So, yes, I think the comedy would have been viewed and enjoyed by my generation but probably would not have gained a fanbase that would have brought the show back as a cartoon.

Battle Beast > Yeah, I think there is a difference between 'best' and 'favorite'. I think the title of 'best' has to be agreed upon by a group of people while that same group could disagree on 'favorites'.

Im trying to think of a Gargoyles example but am currently failing at the moment. Well, Ill give a Buffy example. 'Hush', for anyone who hasnt seen it, is a Buffy the Vampire Slayer episode where are the characters are unable to speak because of a group of demons invading the town. I would call it (and many others would agree with me because it won an award of somekind) that it is one of the 'best' episodes because of its ability to function without any spoken words for the majority of the episode. However, I enjoy it but it is not a favorite of mine. I would rather watch the Halloween episodes, I find them more enjoyable to watch. They are my 'favorite' episodes, even thought I consider 'Hush' to be a better episode.

Hope that helps, Battle Beast!
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Mon, Dec 29, 2008 1:08:25 pm EST from 71.206.9.183

Comment Room Archive

Comments for the week ending January 5, 2009

Index : Hide Images