Exactly. If Brook knows this for a fact, let him cite the source of his information. Provide some names or something. I'd still take that with a grain of salt, since most people use handles on the internet, but it would still be something, not just an inference that people are annoyed by his sarcastic answers in ASK GREG. Personally, I think he responded to something I once said with sarcasm, and I loved it. But I need sarcasm like most life needs air.

Jennifer: Every time I shut my eyes, I hear it: "Mee-sa called Jar Jar Binks." Doesn't matter how many times I watch the original theatrical release of Episode V, I still can't silence the taint of that voice. ( ;
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"If someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back. You have the rights, same as anyone, to live and... try to kill people." -Mal Reynolds
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 10:38:57 pm EST from 71.62.136.51

Brook> Oh, I noticed that the example you used for Weisman was Lex's sexuality. I also noticed the example you used for JKR was Dumbledore's sexuality.

Well, these "antis" then, I believe can be labeled as bigots. Clearly their complaints are stemming from homophobia.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Register for the Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"We all wear masks, Spider-Man. But which one is real? The one that hides your face or the one that is your face?" - The Green Goblin
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 10:34:46 pm EST from 76.95.180.59

I take Brook is exaggerating for $500, Trebek.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Register for the Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"We all wear masks, Spider-Man. But which one is real? The one that hides your face or the one that is your face?" - The Green Goblin
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 10:30:36 pm EST from 76.95.180.59

CryzDemona > I think you're missing my point. Brook has obviously encountered enough "anti-Weisman" people to claim that there are "many" of them, unless he's just lying or exaggerating. Just because you personally have not encountered any, does not mean there aren't many of them, for the reason that I pointed out--most "anti-Weisman" people wouldn't stick around most Gargoyles websites for long. Brook is not claiming that there are many anti-Weisman people out there because there is a reasonable possibility that such people exist, but because he has encountered them (again, unless he is lying or exaggerating). I pointed out that there is a reasonable possibility that these people exist simply because I don't think that not encountering such people on a Gargoyles website is a valid argument that they aren't around, simply because such people wouldn't stick around long anyway.
Rebel
GOLIATH: I SHOULD SAY SOMETHING SHAKESPEAREAN NOW.
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 10:24:20 pm EST from 75.65.27.129

HAYDEN - What in Oberon's name are you talking about?? I never said anything about the first two seasons being bad in any way. ... and what's with the ALL CAPS?? Don't throw a tantrum just to get your question answered, it's a rather pathetic and you'll just piss people off. Also, it's just too bad for you that you don't like the comics. It's the only chance we get at seeing more Gargoyles episodes told the way they were MEANT to be told. I'll take it! Most of the answers you are looking for can be found in the ASK GREG archives.

REBEL - There a REASONABLE POSSIBILITY that there is life on other planets too. There is a REASONABLE POSSIBILITY that you have a hairy back... does that mean I should post that information everywhere? Yeah, probably not so much.

HARVESTER OF EYES - oh yeah... you know the pain. You've felt the hurt.
Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson
"None of you understand. I'm not locked up in here with you. You're locked up in here with me." - Rorshcach, THE WATCHMEN
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 10:10:19 pm EST from 76.174.154.162

Hayden> It was Disney/ABC and it wasn't like Greg could stop them. The Goliath Chronicles ruined any chance of any more episodes of the show being made. It happens a lot with popular franchises. You'll just have to stick with the comics.
spideyforever
said
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 9:42:49 pm EST from 75.118.152.5

Thanks Phoenician.
Hayden Waugh
Hayden Waugh
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 9:34:30 pm EST from 70.162.249.61

CrzyDemona> (not sure if you'll read before room clear, oh well) We'll see, we'll see. LOL
Asatira
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 9:24:00 pm EST from 68.190.20.172

Hayden: When it comes to TGC, the archives are your best bet for an accurate answer. Be sure to look at the link GregX provided earlier as well as the more general TGC section in the archives.

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/archives.php?lid=186&qid=10576
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 8:34:59 pm EST from 157.242.220.150

If Greg Weisman Did'nt make the third season, then who did. And why did he let them continue the story with no connection between season 1&2 and season 3.
Hayden Waugh
Hayden Waugh
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 8:24:43 pm EST from 70.162.249.61

Rebel> No it's not the art, well maybe a little, but the comic has all the BOOM,VVVVS and WHSSSSS. You need sound and no frame to frame type things, and the characters are drawn with too much um........I don't know they just don't look the same anymore.That's just in my opinion.But I do thank it for keeping the animated gargoyles on air though.
Hayden Waugh
Hayden Waugh
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 7:47:56 pm EST from 70.162.249.61

Bishansky> I bought " The Lost". And also I'm Almost 15, I,ve been watching Gargoyles most of my life.I did'nt have a computer then,so I have'nt been able to go on this site.
Hayden Waugh
Hayden Waugh
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 7:36:13 pm EST from 70.162.249.61

Hayden > If your disappointment with the comics had anything to do with the art, just keep in mind that some issues are better than others as far as art goes. Issue #5, for example, has (IMO) the best art of any of the comics. Issues 10 and 11 will probably look beautiful as well, though they won't be coming out as individual issues.
Rebel
GOLIATH: I SHOULD SAY SOMETHING SHAKESPEAREAN NOW.
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 7:33:52 pm EST from 75.65.27.129

Hayden> They would not have been named. Gargoyles back then did not have names.

How old are you?
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 7:28:07 pm EST from 76.95.180.59

Hayden> Which one did you buy, I'm just curious.

And again, the comic is NOT keeping the show off the air. It's not.

The animated show is most likely, never coming back. That's just reality. That's the real world. The comic is not keeping the show off the air.

BTW, you'd most likely be getting the same stories if the show came back with Greg at the helm, so, really... I don't get your complaint.
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 7:27:08 pm EST from 76.95.180.59

@ Hayden: Which one was it? I think, personally, the artwork of 4 is, uh, aesthetically disappointing, and that 6 is rather... well, let's say it needed to be told, and I looked forward to it, but there was not a lot to it...

1 and 2 are also petty much "THE JOURNEY Remastered". My highlights so far are 5, 7 and 8.
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 7:25:06 pm EST from 84.191.226.101

What do you think they would have been named? Just wondering.
Hayden Waugh
Hayden Waugh
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 7:24:35 pm EST from 70.162.249.61

Rebel> oh yeah thats right huh.
Hayden Waugh
Hayden Waugh
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 7:23:09 pm EST from 70.162.249.61

Hayden > Those gargoyles don't have names. Back when the gargoyles lived in 10th century Scotland, Goliath was the only gargoyle with a name.

It's possible that Greg may have come up with "code names" for those gargoyles, sorta like how he has a code name for Hyppolyta, even though she would not have had a name.
Rebel
GOLIATH: I SHOULD SAY SOMETHING SHAKESPEAREAN NOW.
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 7:21:37 pm EST from 75.65.27.129

Bishansky> I just think that the animated one is better than the comic,Because I bought one last week and I just did'nt like it. Also I just like animated ones better.
Hayden Waugh
Hayden Waugh
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 7:20:11 pm EST from 70.162.249.61

Does anyone know the names of the wyvern clan gargoyles. The blue one with the breastplate, the huge one with the bullhorns, the red and very skinny one, the one with wings like lexingtons,the other blue one with the beak, and the other red one with white hair and beak.Thats a count of six from what I saw in the first episode. If you dont know what I mean then just type in wyvern clan click the second one with gargwiki,not category.
Hayden Waugh
Hayden Waugh
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 7:16:30 pm EST from 70.162.249.61

Hayden - what is your problem with Greg continuing HIS story through comics ??? The comics are not keeping the show off the air, just FYI.

Disney does not think the show is enough of a money maker to invest the MILLIONS OF DOLLARS into making new episodes.

It is the continuation of the series after the second season that so many of us have wanted for years. How is that a bad thing?

Or are you just misinformed on the situation?
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 7:12:44 pm EST from 76.95.180.59

Hyppolyta has not yet appeared in either the show or the comics. But she's tall, brown, and bald. I suspect we'll know her when we see her.
Rebel
GOLIATH: I SHOULD SAY SOMETHING SHAKESPEAREAN NOW.
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 7:07:32 pm EST from 75.65.27.129

WHICH GARGOYLE WAS HYPPOLYTA FROM THE WYVERN CLAN? I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE MY QUESTION ANSWERED !!!!!!
Hayden Waugh
Hayden Waugh
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 7:01:28 pm EST from 70.162.249.61

*sorry for the double*

In all fairness, if there are indeed "many" people out there who are upset by some of Greg's decisions and could reasonably be called "anti-Weisman", then they probably don't frequent many of the sites or places that most Gargoyles fans go to. In my experience here in this CR, a lot of Gargoyles fans simply do not welcome disagreement with Greg's decisions, so anyone who disagreed with a lot of Greg's decisions probably wouldn't be an active member of the fandom for terribly long--they would have been run off by other fans. So, yes, there could easily be "many" "anti-Weisman" people out there. I'm not saying there ARE, but it's definitely a reasonable possibility.
Rebel
GOLIATH: I SHOULD SAY SOMETHING SHAKESPEAREAN NOW.
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 6:44:00 pm EST from 75.65.27.129

Todd > That's a possibility that makes me kinda happy. I know some people around here ended up being big Hedgecock fans, and I admit that some of his art was pretty decent, but on the whole, it didn't satisfy me.
Rebel
GOLIATH: I SHOULD SAY SOMETHING SHAKESPEAREAN NOW.
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 6:35:00 pm EST from 75.65.27.129

Todd Jenson> Yeah, that,s just what we need,more gargoyle comics.
Hayden Waugh
Hayden Waugh
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 6:31:03 pm EST from 70.162.249.61

REBEL - We probably won't get as much of a delay problem with the new graphic novels (if they get made). I got the impression that most of the delays were due to Hedgecock, and it's unlikely that he'll be asked to draw any more comics for "Gargoyles".
Todd Jensen
www.gunnerkrigg.com/index2.php
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 6:20:12 pm EST from 4.244.213.225

@ Patrick: Sorry, most of it is lost in MBs or the imdb forum.

There was one particular imdb thread about Gregs posting/answers that, I hink, GXB posted in also, requesting sources.
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 6:12:27 pm EST from 84.191.226.101

On the other hand, she seems to hate the Goliath Chronicles more than I hate George Lucas. Which I didn't think was possible.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"If someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back. You have the rights, same as anyone, to live and...5e try to kill people." -Mal Reynolds
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 6:06:13 pm EST from 71.62.136.51

Anyway, which gargoyle was Hyppolyta from the wyvern clan?
Hayden Waugh
Hayden Waugh
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 6:01:32 pm EST from 70.162.249.61

Hey CZYDemona, I hated the 3rd season two but that does'nt mean you have to say that about the other two seasons,Those were the actual GOOD ones.
Hayden Waugh
Hayden Waugh
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 5:55:58 pm EST from 70.162.249.61

Wow...

I just pressed the button on my monitor labeled "BRIGHTNESS" and it did nothing to help this room.

SPIDEYFOREVER - The line was not an error, you just didn't see the irony of what was going on.// Demona's voice actor playing Mystique? Hasn't she voiced enough evil blue women?? // "... so It was just safe for me to say". It was SAFE for you to say something so outrageous? I'd hate to see what you think 'dangerous' is. You say something completely crazy and then get upset when people correct you?? wow. // I'd rather Gargoyles be gone for good than have anything like The Goliath Chronicles (AKA Season 3) again.

MATT - I know the Metro Red Line has a stop right at the bottom of the hill next to the Gathering hotel.

ASATIRA - Look forward to seeing you too. Not so sure you'll like Edmund. He's a bit of an ass. ;)

BROOK - "Many"?? I'm with Patrick on this one. I can only think of ONE, actually, in the 10+ years I've been into this. ... One does not equal MANY in anyone's book.
Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson
"None of you understand. I'm not locked up in here with you. You're locked up in here with me." - Rorshcach, THE WATCHMEN
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 5:49:45 pm EST from 76.174.154.162

i think is better to see gargoyles like a toon for teenager some tipologize are for adult content i mean disney never done anything for people that are more old of 15 years yes i see this toon is different from other disney tipologize (and if it was an experiment i think it was a success like we see) so is better to hope that people open thier eyes about all people that work to gargoyles but i think is impossible
almagister - [leonpaolo2222 at yahoo dot it]
non possiamo fare altro che sperare che qualche miracolo accada e che ci possa tutti aiutare a vivere meglio
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 5:25:11 pm EST from 79.27.59.205

Brook,Patrick> I've tried to follow what you two are fighting about but what the hell are you talking about?
Hayden Waugh
Hayden Waugh
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 5:19:16 pm EST from 70.162.249.61

Brook > "Many" is not an answer. It's not even a quantitative number. Cite sources, because I've been in this fandom since 1997 and I've run into one, maybe two people who hold the opinions that you describe.
Patrick - [<-- Gathering 2009]
"Who ARE these people?" - Jerry Seinfeld
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 5:08:26 pm EST from 173.88.144.38

Uncyclopedia:
"Why am I such a bitch? You try not getting laid in a thousand years! Hell, I'm practically ready to fuck a human."
~ Demona on Demona.

XD

God... sorry... *laughs some more*
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 4:48:57 pm EST from 84.191.226.101

GXB: "Brook> Who are these anti-Weisman people you speak of? In my twelve years in the fandom, I've only ever encountered one person who I would describe as anti-Weisman."

Oh, many.

There were some before that, but especially when it was revealed that Lex is gay, many people said GW was, in the end, wrong. (Many argued that GW took too many liberties and "forced" absurd character development/storylines that were illogic.

There are many people who argue that many of GWs claims and comments on the show, characters or the species itself are too stretched and too far from the reality depicted in the show.

What might sound like nonsense at first (cause Greg CREATED those characters) is actually something rooted in modern literature: many modern writers (for example Vladimir Nabokov) talked about post-novel destinies of their characters (for example, the narrator of PALE FIRE was to commit suicide after the book is finished, so Nabokov). Many critics took offence in these kind of statements, because they labeled it as "trespassing" by the writer.

A similiar thing happenned when JK Rowling commented on Dumbledores sexuality after book 7 was released.

I take these anti-Weismanian statments with a grain of salt. Greg is the guy who writes the whole damn thing, and he knows best how and why characters develop. However, there are also statements with which I disagree (f.e. Coldstone being stone, for the points that were made earlier) or storylines which I... well, find a bit absurd from my current POV, what my be going to change in the near future (*coughtimedancercough*).

And there are also tose who are pissed at GW for S8 smartass responses, but that is a whole different issue anyways... I just say imdb boards... youtube videos... oh man... :S
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 4:47:46 pm EST from 84.191.226.101

So according to Landon's post early this week and this - http://slg-news.livejournal.com/320968.html SLG wanted to bring Gargoyle pages to WonderCon. Did anyone get a chance to go and see if the pages were there? Any Con info to report? It said Greg W was going so maybe he'll post a Con Journal for us.

^_^
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 4:46:22 pm EST from 209.243.38.9

Almagister > "TPB" stands for "trade paper-back". A trade paperback, in case you don't know, is like a really big comic book. It is usually a comic book composed of six individual issues of a comic, and they are arranged as "chapters" in the TPB.

Spideyforever > The thing is, no reputable source would EVER have claimed that Greg Weisman was the one to cancel the show, nor that he had the authority to do so. So, if you're telling people that Greg is the one who pulled the plug, then you must be coming to your own conclusions without having any real basis for them, or maybe you heard that from some non-reputable source. A good rule of thumb is that if you don't KNOW with a good degree of certainty that what you're saying is true, it's best not to say it at all.
Rebel
GOLIATH: I SHOULD SAY SOMETHING SHAKESPEAREAN NOW.
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 4:29:25 pm EST from 75.65.27.129

Greg B.< I though Greg cancelled it so I made a mistake like everyone does so just stop with the I don't know what I'm talking about okay? I don't if someone asks why I said don't respond.
spideyforever
said
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 4:13:47 pm EST from 75.118.152.5

what does it mean TPBs. :0o?
almagister - [leonpaolo2222 at yahoo dot it]
maybe i need a rest ^^'
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 4:06:14 pm EST from 79.27.59.205

almagister> Well, at this point, all we get (or will get) is TPBs.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 3:55:26 pm EST from 99.187.186.151

thank you for your answer i was afraid because i thinked that disney never give his allowance to SLG i hope we will read the continue of the story...
it is so amazing ç_ç
almagister - [leonpaolo2222 at yahoo dot it]
two si better than one
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 3:43:27 pm EST from 79.27.59.205

Hayden> Too soon to really tell. Though it is hopeful.

Especially Timedancer.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:56:47 pm EST from 99.187.186.151

Anyone> Do you think that the timedancer, middle ages,or pendragon are going to be come a series on Disney?
Hayden Waugh
Hayden Waugh
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:53:59 pm EST from 70.162.249.61

Rebel> "Sometime after the trades are released, Dan Vado (the head of SLG) plans to approach Disney to make more Gargoyles trade paperbacks. If that turns out to be successful, then we should end up getting new Gargoyles material every year or so."

That would be so great if it could happen. Here's hoping that it does.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:40:35 pm EST from 99.187.186.151

Hayden> What I think happened doesn't matter. Here's what Greg Weisman says happened:

http://s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?rid=161

A much more informative and correct answer than one anyone in here can provide.

And as for "comic version" This isn't a version. The comic book is the sequel to the animated series. Greg Weisman himself is writing it, and it takes place after season two, ignoring season three.

Brook> Who are these anti-Weisman people you speak of? In my twelve years in the fandom, I've only ever encountered one person who I would describe as anti-Weisman.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Register for the Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"We all wear masks, Spider-Man. But which one is real? The one that hides your face or the one that is your face?" - The Green Goblin
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:10:23 pm EST from 76.95.180.59

Hayden > What I mean by that is that we'd occasionally get new Gargoyles trade paperbacks. I don't know if it is even going to happen. It will probably depend on how well the trade paperbacks coming out this summer sell, and whether Dan Vado is able to work something out with Disney. Even if it does happen, there's no guarantee they would come out every year, especially considering how erratic the schedule was for getting out the individual issues.

But anyway, there's a chance we might get a Gargoyles trade paperback every year, plus a trade paperback of a spin-off series, like Bad Guys, TimeDancer, or Pendragon. This is all a BIG "if" at this point, but there's a chance it could happen.
Rebel
GOLIATH: I SHOULD SAY SOMETHING SHAKESPEAREAN NOW.
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:10:09 pm EST from 75.65.27.129

Greg Bishansky> Then what do you thing happened and will happen?
Hayden Waugh
Hayden Waugh
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:01:33 pm EST from 70.162.249.61

Rebel> what do you mean by "New Gargoyles material every year?"
Hayden Waugh
Hayden Waugh
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:59:33 pm EST from 70.162.249.61

Hayden> Because spideyforever doesn't know what he's talking about.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Register for the Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"We all wear masks, Spider-Man. But which one is real? The one that hides your face or the one that is your face?" - The Green Goblin
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:58:50 pm EST from 76.95.180.59

Patrick> then why did spidey say that Greg canceled it?
Hayden Waugh
Hayden Waugh
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:57:11 pm EST from 70.162.249.61

Almagister > From what we've heard, SLG is planning on releasing both trade paperbacks sometime this summer. So, probably sometime between June and August or September.

Sometime after the trades are released, Dan Vado (the head of SLG) plans to approach Disney to make more Gargoyles trade paperbacks. If that turns out to be successful, then we should end up getting new Gargoyles material every year or so.
Rebel
GOLIATH: I SHOULD SAY SOMETHING SHAKESPEAREAN NOW.
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:56:07 pm EST from 75.65.27.129

Well Greg, didn't cancel it the fact that he did not like it and that pretty much no one did forced the stupid people at Disney/ABC that made Season 3 to pull the plug on the show. A similar thing happened with my favorite anime when they made a third series based on it the fans didn't like it because it wasn't like the other series and creator of the show came back wrote the last few episodes and said there wouldn't be any more series based on it.
spideyforever
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:55:22 pm EST from 75.118.152.5

Not meaning to be rude to gargoyles comic readers, but I think the comics version of that sucks big time. The animated version was BETTER! Also sorry about the so many postages.
Hayden Waugh
Hayden Waugh
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:54:47 pm EST from 70.162.249.61

Disney owns "Gargoyles"... none of these decisions were Greg's to make.
Patrick - [<-- Gathering 2009]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:50:37 pm EST from 173.88.144.38

If Greg Weisman did'nt like season 3 why did'nt he just cancel season 3 and continue from season 2?
Hayden Waugh
Hayden Waugh
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:35:19 pm EST from 70.162.249.61

Hi there,
Italian boy here my terrible apologize if my english is not so good
if i may i'd like to know some news about slg comic and if there are some chances in the next future to see the continue of bad guys and the main series of gargoyles god bless you


AL Alan Magister Sunflower |||
almagister - [leonpaolo2222 at yahoo dot it]
magic and tecnlogy toghter boost your life in the best form...
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:26:44 pm EST from 79.27.59.205

Hmmm, so Edmund was arrested in Thailand. Wonder what for...

Spidey: If you want the definitive answers behind the history of Gargoyles and the Goliath Chronicles, look no further:

http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Gargoyles
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Once a man has seen, he can never turn his back on it. Never pretend it doesn't exist. No matter who orders him to look the other way. We do not do this thing because it is permitted. We do it because we have to. We do it because we are compelled." -Rorschach ("Watchmen")
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:22:31 pm EST from 71.62.136.51

Patrick> Oh, man. We've got Blue Mug Productions coming? This is going to be fun. I'd love to see Jenn and Mara again, but Edmund is going to be new.
Asatira
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 12:58:29 pm EST from 68.190.20.172

Spidey... uh... Rich Orange.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 10:35:47 am EST from 75.156.190.146

Any wiki is only as correct as the last person to edit it. Contrary to Stephen Colbert's assertions, saying something on a wiki does NOT make it true.

Also, always remember the definition of ASSUME. When you ASSUME, you make an ASS out of U and ME.

Some new guests have been added to the Gathering web site.
Patrick - [<-- Gathering 2009]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 10:26:02 am EST from 173.88.144.38

Spidey> To reiterate what everyone else has said, Greg did not cancel the series. ABC/Disney did.

Greg wasn't even involved in TGC.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 8:45:50 am EST from 99.187.186.151

Haha, back on and once again 3 people posting the same thing. XD

Anyways...

@ Rebel: I didn't wanted to sound pissed, if I did. Thing just is, right now, I'm working on something, and, uh... let's say it is hard to get your own thing going, you know? Loads of people you thought you might rely on turn out to be pretty unreliable. Especially when you ask then to do you a favor that is unpaid.
Anyways, I was just a bit annoyed by how many people on here rant about something being unnecessary, rather than trying to take part in something and help perfectionise it.
I'm very happy for Stitchs post, because this way, I do not have to post the same. :) But that is reality.
THIS HERE is, in huge parts, the elite. There are a few newbies and loads of people who attend the gathering or are longtime contributors, but apart from that there's really just a small number of people inbetween.

And if you type GARGOYLES FORUM into google, it brings up some annoying links to tv-sho sites with 30 posts about "Hey, I'd SO love to see Gargoyles back!!" dated 2007-2008, which do not have ANY information on the comic!!

The same goes for imdb, although the site got better and better over time and people are at least a *bit* aware of what is going on, a forum that colletcts information and both serves the purpose of a news-resource, FAQ, information storage and discussian board is, at least to me, something I ALWAYS missed when it comes to Gargoyles.

See again the questions that were just asked.

People and new fans go to wiki and read it, make their own assumptions etc. It is not their fault, and not Wikis, it is a natural process. With a lot of films or books I've done research on, you'll find different information on each site, and a lot of it is wrong.

Also, keep in mind that there is, yes, a huge following of "Anti-Weismanians" who disagree with a many things Greg has said that are regarded as canon but behin-the-scenes who are not checking ASK GREG on purpose.

@ spidey: I thought so too, don't worry, until I read into the whole debacle.

Things is: ABC started TGC, got Greg on board. Greg said "So, Masterplan = this.". producers nodded their heads, and as soon as GW left the room went "Oh, Jesus, we're not gonna do this." and wrote the show how they liked it.
Epic fail.
Greg and fans pissed, show not doing that well, ABC decided to not do another season.
The end.

:) ;)
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 6:38:55 am EST from 84.191.215.177

spideyforever> Again, Greg DID NOT STOP THE SHOW.

However, you are correct that he did not like The Goliath Chronicles. This is, in part, because he was already NOT WORKING ON IT. And since he was not working on it, he had no control over whether it continued or not. And it didn't.

But we do now have the comics, with Greg back at the helm, giving us the third season he wanted to make all along.
Supermorff
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 4:31:11 am EST from 86.131.17.55

Spidey : Here's the thing: Greg had *no* say in the decision to cancel the show. Disney canceled the show because TGC had low ratings. Greg's personal feelings about TGC had no effect on anything.

By the way, I believe Battle Beast uses Rich Orange.
Spen
"What if this wasn't a hypothetical question?"
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 4:08:28 am EST from 66.43.205.110

I read Greg didn't like Season 3 because it was unrelated to 1 & 2 and thought he stopped the show because of it.
spideyforever
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:22:45 am EST from 75.118.152.5

Spideyforever> A word of advice, don't make statements when you don't know what you're talking about.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Register for the Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"We all wear masks, Spider-Man. But which one is real? The one that hides your face or the one that is your face?" - The Green Goblin
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:22:14 am EST from 76.95.180.59

Hey Battle Beast which orange are you using?
spideyforever
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:13:37 am EST from 75.118.152.5

I realize wiki isn't the best source but It says Greg(and a lot of fans) didn't like the Goliath Chronicles so It was just safe for me to say he stopped the show because of them as was the case with my favorite anime.
spideyforever
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:11:19 am EST from 75.118.152.5

Spidey: Not to be rude, but there are some serious inconsistencies with your last post, and the one that's really jarring is that Greg "pulled the plug," which is, honestly, far from the truth. Instead of going line by line, I'd recommend just looking into the archives and reading into what Greg Weisman actually says what went down in that final season.

As for the comics, SLG has mentioned a summer release a few weeks ago that seemed to have maintained this week when they advertising their appearance at WonderCon this weekend. Was anyone able to visit the Bay Area and find out anything new??
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Sun, Mar 1, 2009 12:21:08 am EST from 157.242.220.204

@rebel

i dont think anyone wants to replace this forum, but as was just proven, its not THAT simple to keep track of whats already been discussed for new users. the thing that bothered me about this forum from day-one is that its not set up into catagories, and you cant choose what you want to discuss without rudely changing the subject. i get really annoyed sometimes when i come here looking to talk about gargoyles, and theres a 3 page debate about spiderman going on.. or even worse, some childish fight that can only be broken up by Greg W.
one board for every possible topic makes this place kind of exasperating.
i've joined alot of online fan groups in my day, and i've seen that the most successfull forums are the moderated ones with organized topics. on those, new users can usually see the subject they have a question about, and maybe see very quickly that its already been answered. people who want to talk about a certain thing, CAN without interrupting any other conversations.
its just more convenient.

as to the popularity problem, there are THOUSANDS of gargoyles fans out there and most of them are the "web-geek" type.. lol. i think the main reason this place doesnt get alot of traffic (ASSIDE from the fact that very few even know about it.. i didnt untill recently), are the inconveniences i mentioned.
its not fair to the fans that this is the ONLY site they have to deal with. but added to that, it may do gargoyles good to have more than one fan site..maybe the right people will take notice.
sTiTcH
posted @ Sat, Feb 28, 2009 11:28:19 pm EST from 205.188.116.10

Hayden> I think you can thank the unrelated Goliath Chronicles for the series getting canceled. Greg Weisman didn't have much involvement with season 3 and hated it because it was unrelated and as a result he pulled the plug on the show and made the comics. When the creator isn't involved with a popular franchise and fans want more of it that's what happens. It happened with my favorite anime whose name I will not mention because I don't know how many anime fans are on here.

Speaking of the comics are is Greg going to release the comics to local bookstores anytime soon or has he already?
spideyforever
posted @ Sat, Feb 28, 2009 11:22:17 pm EST from 75.118.152.5

How many gargoyles do you think there are in the series?
Brooklyn
Hayden Waugh
posted @ Sat, Feb 28, 2009 9:07:25 pm EST from 70.162.249.61

What do you think would've happened if Goliath had taken most of the clan to scare off the Vikings? Would they all still have been under the stone sleep spell?
Hayden Waugh
Hayden Waugh
posted @ Sat, Feb 28, 2009 8:31:01 pm EST from 70.162.249.61

As far as I know, they ended the series because it was no longer profitable enough for their tastes.

As for why some gargoyles appear in multiple clans, the fact is that the show didn't always have a large enough budget to come up with new gargoyle models every time they needed gargoyle "extras". Here's Greg's answer for why that bald gargoyle with the breastplate keeps showing up:

"The in-show answer is that the gargoyle in question was once a member of the Wyvern clan. A few years before the massacre, the Wyvern clan had grown too large, so half the clan left to form a "colony" clan. This gargoyle was among those who left, but he left an egg behind in the Wyvern clan rookery- after all, it was safer there. Later, this colony was decimated, but this gargoyle survived to join Demona's clan as her second. The gargoyle's child, who hatched on Avalon, looked remarkably similar to his father.

The out-of-show answer, of course, is that they reused that "generic gargoyle" design for all three clans."
Rebel
GOLIATH: I SHOULD SAY SOMETHING SHAKESPEAREAN NOW.
posted @ Sat, Feb 28, 2009 8:12:13 pm EST from 75.65.27.129

What was the point of the third season,"The Goliath Chronicles?" It did'nt have anything to do with the other two seasons. And another question I had was,why do alot of the Gargoyles from the Wyvern clan,The Avalon Clan,and Demona's clan look the same. I know that the Avalon clan was origonaly from the Wyvern clan but still,why?
Hayden Waugh
Hayden Waugh
posted @ Sat, Feb 28, 2009 7:59:04 pm EST from 70.162.249.61

Ok, Brook then why did "Disney" cancel gargoyles. Oh and thanks for the answer.
Hayden Waugh
Hayden Waugh
posted @ Sat, Feb 28, 2009 7:47:35 pm EST from 70.162.249.61

Hayden > First of all, welcome to the comment room! Have a cookie. *offers the cookie tray*

There are other people here who can address your question better than I can, but to put it simply, the decision to make more episodes of Gargoyles is simply not up to Greg Weisman. If it were, I'm sure we'd have a ton more episodes than we do. The decision to stop making Gargoyles episodes was Disney's. Anyway, I know you addressed your question to Greg Weisman, but since he may not stop by the comment room, I figured I'd help out.

Brook > Okay. Well, good luck. I hope it is successful.
Rebel
GOLIATH: I SHOULD SAY SOMETHING SHAKESPEAREAN NOW.
posted @ Sat, Feb 28, 2009 7:42:30 pm EST from 75.65.27.129

To Greg Weisman, why did you stop making The animated Gargoyles episodes? I think you should keep the series going. If you did make more episodes, I and maybe even more people would watch them. I'm a BIG fan of the series and I hope you'd consider my request. My request is,can you make more episodes? I hope you do. Thank You.
Hayden Waugh
Hayden Waugh
posted @ Sat, Feb 28, 2009 7:21:38 pm EST from 70.162.249.61

@ Rebel: Ergh, sorry, but there are even Gargoyles forums for italian or spanish users that do quite well and have up to 40 active members.

From posts on other sites and/or message boards, I know of many people who do not watch the comment room for various reasons.

As for me, I only started dropping here recently, because I'm interrested in the popular opinnions, but apart from that, this is neither very good when it comes to information storage nor for a well directed discussion. A lot of things get lost 2 days after nobody posted and are seldomly thought to the end.

So, to make it short: I think that an international forum would do quite good, both for the preservation of information and for the discussion of topics without starting from point 0 every week.
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Sat, Feb 28, 2009 5:24:23 pm EST from 84.191.210.250

Sorry for the double. I thought a little more and wanted to add some things.

I sincerely hope that your forum WILL be successful and that one day the Gargoyles fandom will grow SO LARGE that a forum is an absolute necessity for keeping track of all the topics and discussions. But that day is not today. Why not wait until the fandom grows larger (if it ever does) and this comment room is practically bursting at the seams? If you made a forum then, it would be a welcome relief from this comment room. But right now, this CR is fine and a forum seems like a bit too much. Why don't we focus our efforts on growing the fandom so that one day a forum WILL be necessary, and THEN create a forum? Making a forum before there are enough fans to justify its use seems to be putting the cart before the horse, IMO.

By the way, I intend no disrespect when I say this.
Rebel
GOLIATH: I SHOULD SAY SOMETHING SHAKESPEAREAN NOW.
posted @ Sat, Feb 28, 2009 2:32:27 pm EST from 75.65.27.129

Brook > I don't want to sound discouraging, and I really appreciate that you're trying to put together something that would be beneficial for the Gargoyles fandom. But, I just don't think you're ever going to get many members. This comment room serves the needs of the fandom so well that I don't think a forum will be successful. I don't want to see you spending your time and effort on something that probably won't get much use. Even this little comment room has days when things are absolutely DEAD, and even on its busiest days, it's still not hard to keep track of multiple topics. A full-blown forum just seems superfluous and is over-kill for a fandom like ours, IMO.
Rebel
GOLIATH: I SHOULD SAY SOMETHING SHAKESPEAREAN NOW.
posted @ Sat, Feb 28, 2009 2:12:49 pm EST from 75.65.27.129

OK, I tried some stuff, and it looks pretty good now. :)

New members should be able to post without waiting for permission or stuff...

@ Stitch: It should all work no. :) When you log-in, just press on the "back to index" button.
The Admin function is on the very bottom of the page, right in the middle.
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Sat, Feb 28, 2009 10:45:16 am EST from 84.191.210.250

Hey there stitch,

The Admin funtion is on the very bottom of the site, in the middle.

It's truly dull what you report, eems others had issues with the login aswell...

I'll try to do another account myself and see what the issues are. :)

Anyways, try to PM me your login info, and I'll see what i can do. :)

For EVERYBODY ELSE: People, try the forum out, PU-LEASE.
Riht now, I've jost got too few people posting to even get error reports. :(
And I'm looking for a mod who knows what FREEFORUMS are like and how to use the whole thing. I'm new and it is quite a pain.

So - any help or support is GREATLY appreciated. :)
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Sat, Feb 28, 2009 10:26:27 am EST from 84.191.210.250

hey brook, im still haveing a REAL hard time with the forum. not only does it keep kicking me out, but its almost as if this particular forum type has no admin page. the admin login you gave me showd no difference what-so-ever from a regular user page. there were no extra options or more advanced control pannal or nothing.

i would have sent you a PM on there, but it wouldnt freakin let me!
sTiTcH
posted @ Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:44:22 am EST from 205.188.116.10

Wow! Where is everyone??? One post in between my two posts? Crazy!
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:42:35 am EST from 75.156.190.146

Well thank God it's Friday at last. I teach Spanish at a high school full of heathens and I'm so glad I can finally be rid of them for a few days. To bad I have a boat-load of papers to grade this weekend.
Rebel
posted @ Fri, Feb 27, 2009 4:21:06 pm EST from 198.175.205.251

I got to see Julius Caeser last night. What a phenominal play! I loved it very much. the cast and crew at the Citidel theater did a tremendous job on it.

I can't say enough good things about the performance.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:40:32 am EST from 75.156.190.146

@ Samuel: One of the fw things that goes against a Weisman statement where I agree.

The entire "He is stone and doesn't feel a thing." part just stretches it a bit...
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:24:36 am EST from 84.191.255.127

While you're at it, spin up Dark Side of the Moon and The Wizard of Oz...
A Nonny Moose - [infovision dot xtech at gmail dot com]
posted @ Fri, Feb 27, 2009 3:21:52 am EST from 94.181.205.85

If Demona had waited a thousand years then why would Coldstone's face have any recognizable features left? Wouldn't those the face be especially vulnerable to erosion being exposed for so long? It seems to me she would have had to collect the pieces to preserve them this long after the massacre.
Vinnie - [tpeano29 at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Fri, Feb 27, 2009 2:49:52 am EST from 69.54.209.20

Coldstone: I never liked the explanation that Coldstone was supposed to be perma-stone with cybernetic enhancements. It didn't make sense to me that they would be able to move, the hair wouldn't move, plus, the gargoyle souls wouldn't be a part of the motor-function; it would be all robot. Internally, I explained it away as the spell turned it to flesh, the cybernetic frame acting as a support for the missing pieces.

Yes, I know, it runs counter to what Greg W. said, but (to me) it makes more sense. It seems more likely that a magical spell would awaken flesh rather than force the stone-sleep-substance into being more flesh-like. Of course, that's operating under the assumption that when a gargoyle sleeps, its "stone" form is hard and unyielding.

For the record, I love Coldstone, but I have many mixed feelings on him.

Also, the color issue. Wasn't his robotic form created before the organic form? It stands to reason that the color artists assumed it was supposed to be the same. Or, it makes sense to me, at least.

Reactions, thoughts, anyone?
Samuel - [AnglOfHellO at AOL dot com]
Now, now... Language.
posted @ Fri, Feb 27, 2009 2:41:43 am EST from 68.55.57.46

Phoenician- Thank you fror the answer.
Kerry (Kth) Boyd- sorry I didn't understand your answer then...
But in that case I agree that his color should've been different, because if you notice, in "City of Stone" when Demona approaches both Coldstone and Desdemona, right before flying off beneach the castle, the night before the massacre. Well, in that part Coldstone is exactly the same color as he when is, well, Coldstone. So because he is the same color as when he was alive, I always thought that throw magic hr is his "original" color. I hope this is clear. lol
Irina
posted @ Thu, Feb 26, 2009 9:59:12 pm EST from 69.22.218.127

I wonder if fossilized brain tissue was incorporated into Coldstone's CPU.
Michael Ejercito - [mejercit at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Thu, Feb 26, 2009 8:23:21 pm EST from 75.142.121.139

Phoenician> I know it's not canon, but every time Greg has described the pieces used to make Coldstone being gathered, he's had Demona being the one to collect them. So I tend to think that she was the one to do it. I agree that it doesn't make much sense for her to have been toting the remains of her clan around for the past thousand years. It's possible that she hid them somewhere safe and was able to return for them later or possibly move them to better hiding places over the centuries. But I think it's more likely that Xanatos told her to go through the Castle before it was moved to Manhattan and gather up anything she wouldn't want the work crew coming across and discarding as "junk." But it's still always puzzled me how any of the gargoyle remains could still be there after a thousand years of sitting out in the elements with no one tending to them in any way.

My main reason for thinking that Demona didn't take any of the remains back in the tenth century is that she never performed a Wind Ceremony for any of the dead gargoyles. Which, when you think about it, makes what she did to her clan even worse. It's understandable that it would be too much for her to perform a Wind Ceremony by herself right after the massacre, even if she hadn't been dealing with her own feelings of guilt over her role in the destruction of her clan. But the fact that she never went back and did it, even knowing that failing to do so would leave her clan in spiritual limbo? That's pretty bad.

My gut feeling is that the Wyvern Clan will get a Wind Ceremony one day. If Demona and Xanatos were able to recover enough gargoyle remains to assemble Coldstone, it seems likely that one of them still has the rest of the fragments. And it just seems far to cruel to leave all of these gargoyles in this in-between state for all time. I have an inkling of an idea that the ceremony will be performed by the New Wyvern Clan shortly after it is founded, but that's just me.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Thu, Feb 26, 2009 8:19:41 pm EST from 146.115.115.33

Sucks that the Gathering's so late this year. School will have started back, so I guess we're not coming. Oh, well, we probably couldn't have afforded it anyway. Have fun, those who do!
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Thu, Feb 26, 2009 8:06:10 pm EST from 71.204.233.241

"Greg responds...
They were in a pile at the castle, as the three gargoyles were in close proximity when they were shattered. Or more accurately, some of Desdemona and Iago's pieces got mixed in over the centuries with what was mostly a pile of Othello. I don't think there was an intent on mixing three gargoyles together when Coldstone was created.

Response recorded on October 18, 2007"

This still begs the question on exactly when did Demona collect the pieces, because it seems clear enough that Demona wasn't keeping shattered pieces of her rookery siblings over the millenium.

Rather, I'm thinking that Xanatos salvaged them out when he was transfering the castle to New York, Demona got wind that he still had the pieces, and they decided to join their resources of science and sorcery to take out Goliath.
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Thu, Feb 26, 2009 7:50:40 pm EST from 157.242.218.248

Yes, if Othello had been orange or something it would've been easier to see Coldstone as stone parts, but having his eye, hair and mouth all stone like the stone gargoyles in Shadows of the Past would've accomplished that too AND would've made him much creepier and more visually interesting. Imagine that first look Coldstone has of himself when looking in the mirror. Sure, the cybernetics freaked him out and the hard, stone skin would've been weird, but can you imagine if he had seen his hair, eye and even mouth parts stone too!?

Although, now that I think about it, I wonder if not only the white hair, but the eye itself isn't some sort of prosthesis. Recall that whenever we see things from Coldstone's point of view it is always in the Steel Clan-like visual with scanning and words appearing, etc. I wonder if his gargoyle eye is an eye at all or if his cybernetic eye is doing all the work. Or maybe the gargoyle eye is a cybernetic piece all its own, like Coyote and the Macbot's eyes.

That would explain the eye and the hair. The tongue being red still doesn't make sense unless Xanatos dyed it or something.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Must you humans name everything? Nothing is real to you til you've named it, given it limits..." - Hudson
posted @ Thu, Feb 26, 2009 6:56:45 pm EST from 70.237.193.108

Sorry for the double post but found another one:

Question received on Mon, December 20, 1999 02:23:42 PM
Lawrence Stone writes...
What body parts on Coldstone our Desdemona's and Iago's?

Greg responds...
Most of Coldstone is Othello. But there's a thigh that belongs to Iago, and a forearm that was Desdemona's.

Or put another way...

I don't know. And it's too late for me to care.

I did care originally, but we had to design Coldstone and Othello for the first season, and there wasn't time to design Desdemona or Iago, just so that we could divide up their parts .

Response recorded on February 20, 2000
Vinnie - [tpeano29 at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Thu, Feb 26, 2009 3:00:38 pm EST from 69.54.209.22

Question received on Fri, October 12, 2007 12:46:41 AM
Queen of Night writes...
Hi Greg,

I forgot a question that I meant to ask (that random #4 at the bottom of the post).

Coldstone is made from the shattered pieces of Othello, Desdemona, and Iago. Other than the Shakespear reference how was it possible that the pieces of these specific gargoyles to be used and no others? How did Demona get them anyway? I'm sure she didn't carry pieces of her rookery siblingings with her through the centuries.

Thanks!

Greg responds...
They were in a pile at the castle, as the three gargoyles were in close proximity when they were shattered. Or more accurately, some of Desdemona and Iago's pieces got mixed in over the centuries with what was mostly a pile of Othello. I don't think there was an intent on mixing three gargoyles together when Coldstone was created.

Response recorded on October 18, 2007


Just to confirm Greg W. did say I don't think.

Question received on Wed, April 18, 2001 10:14:22 AM
Timbo writes...
Hey yo....gotta tell ya' that Gargoyles is my favortie toon or all time. Just one thing that always bugged me about the Awakening series, is that the first half hour seemed cut around Goliath's brothers and sisters. For some reason those first to nameless Gargoyles (especially the one with the bull horns) and all of the others you barely got a peek at always intrigued me....who were they?, what were they like?....if there's any names or info on these mysterious characters of Goliath's fallen clan, please let me know..
Thanks
p.s....If Coldstone was made up of pieces of other Gargoyles....wouldn't he have some womenly feartures too?...j/k

Greg responds...
He does. Have you seen his inner thigh. Whoah!!!

Anyway, yes, I have some notions about Goliath's rookery siblings. We've met three. And I've given a great deal of thought to Hyppolyta, a fourth.

Again, given enough time and episodes we'd have met them all.

That's what the Dark Ages prequel spin-off was for.

Response recorded on June 21, 2001


And here is one feminine part.
Vinnie - [tpeano29 at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Thu, Feb 26, 2009 2:50:13 pm EST from 69.54.209.22

Hmm. I never really gave much thought to Coldstone's design or even Demona's comment to when he first woke up. If I had not been here, chatting with you all, I dont think I would have realized that Coldstone is actually reanimated stone. You all are probably right that it would made more sense for Othello to be a different color so that his stone bits would look more like stone. However, personally, I dont put too much thought into Coldstone's creation. I just accept him to be what he looks like to my eyes.
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Thu, Feb 26, 2009 11:37:42 am EST from 209.243.38.9

Irina> Yes, I know what you were asking, and I tried to answer that too. I put in the bit about the names just in case you hadn't heard them mentioned before.

Obviously Coldstone's face is all from Othello, but some of the pieces of the rest of him belonged to the other two. They aren't differently colored because it's all just reanimated stone, not actual living flesh.
Kerry (Kth) Boyd
posted @ Thu, Feb 26, 2009 10:14:48 am EST from 71.56.36.35

Coldstone's Design> I can forgive a bit of artistic license to make for a better design, like how Coldstone's non-cybernetic parts all look pretty much like Othello and generally uniform, despite the fact that he's supposed to be made of three different gargoyles. (Irina, as Phoenician said, we don't really know which parts of Coldstone came from Desdemona and Iago. Presumably none of his face pieces or other distinctive feature parts, since again, Coldstone mostly looks like Othello. And none of his body has the skin color of either Desdemona or Iago because his non-cybernetic parts are reanimated stone rather than living gargoyle flesh, and therefore are all gray.) I can understand the eye and mouth as well, as the designers would probably want them to "read" well for purposes of expression, which would be more difficult if everything were gray. It would have been nice if his stone eye was a light gray and the inside of his mouth was a very dull red color, but maybe that would have been too subtle a distinction. (The hair is widely suspected to be a synthetic add-on from Demona or Xanatos, so it doesn't bother me so much.) What bothers me is that the design is doing nothing to help me understand the fact that Coldstone is reanimated stone rather than a living cyborg gargoyle. The only help we really get on that front is Demona informing him that he's "cold stone brought to life," which never struck me as specific enough to mean anything more than that he'd been revived from the dead. Making his stone parts look more angular the way living gargoyles do when they turn to stone for the day might have helped, but it also would have lessened the contrast between his stone and metal parts. The big problem is still Othello's skin color being nearly identical to Coldstone's supposedly stone parts. I guess it's something of a moot point by now, unless it's made an issue in an upcoming story, in which case I'd assume it would be explained directly.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Thu, Feb 26, 2009 9:12:01 am EST from 146.115.115.33

You know, Gargoyles was probably the first cartoon, nay, TV show I watched that really caught my interest and curiosity, especially in season 2. All the mystery and all the revelations that were made... I never felt that way about a TV show again until I started watching Buffy, Angel, and then Lost (especially Lost). In any case, this cartoon was fantastic and more cartoons, nay, TV shows should be like it.
DrZaius - [drzaius3145 at gmail dot com]
posted @ Thu, Feb 26, 2009 4:34:15 am EST from 98.77.28.213

Irina: I don't think its ever been explicitly stated. Thing is, I don't think Demona intentionally merged three gargoyles. She probably collected several pieces and may have mixed in rubble from Desdemona and Iagothe with the large and recongnizable Othello pieces.

On screen, the color of Coldstone's body is, well, cold stone, and thus supposed to be gray-ish looking. Meaning any bits from Othello, Iago, and Desdemona would look similar, and not color-scattered. Thus many fan's slight frustration with Othello's living skin color SOO similar to the dead-reanimated stone color.
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Thu, Feb 26, 2009 12:10:24 am EST from 157.242.222.211

Kerry (Kth) Boyd-No no . My question is not about the names. I just want to know what physical parts of "Coldstone" belong to the other two Gargoyles? like the wings? the legs? Arms? I dont know.

Cuz Desdemona was flesh-colored, for example. And I dont see no flesh color on Coldstone. Things like that. Do you understand what I mean?
Irina
posted @ Wed, Feb 25, 2009 11:34:08 pm EST from 69.22.218.127

Re: Coldstone

Coldstone's rock parts are not just from Othello. Shards of Iago and Desdemona were also used, so that when Demona's magic summoned the spirits back into the body, all three became trapped, forming Coldstone's original consciousness. From the uniform cybernetics design, I think they were under the impression that the pieces all belonged to Othello, but of course I can't be sure.

(Just in case the names confuse Irina: those were not the gargoyles' names. They didn't have any. "Othello," "Desdemona," and "Iago" were designations to tell them apart in storyboarding, scripting, and in the credits for the voice actors. The names are now used by fans for the same basic reason.)
Kerry (Kth) Boyd
posted @ Wed, Feb 25, 2009 11:10:09 pm EST from 71.56.36.35

The way I gathered it, Demona turned Coldstone from dead rock into "Living rock." She used magic to turn the dead rubble of 'Othello' into dead tissues, and merged them with the cybernetic body parts.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Wed, Feb 25, 2009 10:40:01 pm EST from 75.156.190.146

Algernon> Actually he is where I took the idea. The original Conan stories were a big influence on me. Im not coping R.E. Howard, Im trying to use the same concept, what he called "telecsoping history" There are subtle clues to what happened before the rise of man in each of the ancient texts. Ymir WAS killed by Odin, Balor was eventually slain by the Tautha Da Danu, etc. What I want to do is , in a way, "fill in the gaps".(really the whole things a giant gap) By creating an operatic saga of my own.
Justin "I'd Rather Be Pillaging"
Entrophy consumes everything
posted @ Wed, Feb 25, 2009 10:29:59 pm EST from 98.227.89.128

I actually have a question about Coldstone's design. He is made up of parts of two other gargoyles? right? So my question is waht parts of him belong to other gargoyles?
Irina
posted @ Wed, Feb 25, 2009 10:11:00 pm EST from 69.22.218.127

I actually have a question about Coldstone's design. He is made up of parts of two other gargoyles? right? So my question is waht parts of him belong to other gargoyles?
Irina
posted @ Wed, Feb 25, 2009 10:06:53 pm EST from 69.22.218.127

Thanks for the tip, Greg, though after researching it a bit, I wonder if it'd be far cheaper to rely on mass transit... I dunno. What do you think?
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Must you humans name everything? Nothing is real to you til you've named it, given it limits..." - Hudson
posted @ Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:29:44 pm EST from 70.237.193.108

I'll field this one.

Matt> When I first visited LA for the 2001 Gathering, I took Super Shuttle from LAX to Universal City. While we're at a different hotel this time, it's still the same area. A very touristy area. So, you should have no problem securing a shuttle.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Register for the Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"We all wear masks, Spider-Man. But which one is real? The one that hides your face or the one that is your face?" - The Green Goblin
posted @ Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:47:13 pm EST from 75.50.154.20

While I've always loved the various Coldstone episodes, I too have long had an issue with his design. I like the idea of him being re-animated stone with cybernetic parts a lot. The cybernetic parts are fine on him, but, as others have mentioned, his stone parts are confusing, if not unrealistic. I don't understand why his eye, mouth parts and hair are not stone-like. He should've looked more like the zombie-gargoyles in "Shadows of the Past", all stone except where he has cybernetics. It would've been cool to know he actually NEEDED the cybernetics to be able to see and talk and such. And if his eye, mouth and hair had been stone gray, it wouldn't have mattered that stone gray was such a similiar color to Othello's flesh because with those parts gray everyone would've gotten that he was all stone. As it is, he looks only part stone at best. Plus, I think he would've looked a lot cooler and a lot creepier had he been all stone (again, minus the cybernetics). But I digress.

To the Gathering Staff, anyone else who can answer or whomever else it may concern> I have a question about transportation when I arrive at LAX. What would be the best way to get to the hotel and eventually back to the airport? Is there a shuttle to/from this hotel? Could I do mass transit? Would I have to get a cab? Is this a question I should have brought up at Gathering website?
I just don't want to be stranded or have to pay any crazy transport costs to traverse the 25 miles or so between LAX and the hotel.

And one more thing. Not once, but twice today while I was at work I looked up and out the window and saw none other than Todd Jenson walk by. I do see Todd time to time as we live in the same neighborhood (small world, huh?) and we both do a lot of walking in said neighborhood. But I thought I'd mention it.
Todd> Do you ever see me? Do you even know what I look like?
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Must you humans name everything? Nothing is real to you til you've named it, given it limits..." - Hudson
posted @ Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:28:18 pm EST from 70.237.193.108

The first part of Batman The Brave And The Bold finale airs this Friday, and according to an advanced review, Jeff Bennett will be voicing The Red Hood and The Joker. A link to the review (Spoiler Warning):
http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/bravebold/guides/reviews/12deepcover/

And a couple clips (with Bennett's Joker, and again spoilers):
http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/bravebold/media/video/s01e13.php
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:25:04 pm EST from 71.120.226.102

In High Noon, did the gargoyles even suspect that the whole thing was a set up or were they in the dark about the whole thing?
Kendal - [kendal dot renfro at yahoo dot com]
Gargoyleslady
posted @ Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:09:26 pm EST from 209.235.111.116

Gathering 2009 Newsletter #4 - February 25, 2009

In this issue: New Guests! Hotel Info! Contests Reminders! Dates to Remember!

Convention Guests:

The Gathering staff is happy to announce four new guests! They are:

Karine Charlebois - "Gargoyles: Bad Guys" comic book pencil artist

Ben Diskin - voice of Eddie Brock / Venom in "The Spectacular Spider-Man"

Crispin Freeman - voice of Electro in "The Spectacular Spider-Man"

Frank Paur - Supervising Producer for "Gargoyles"; Director of Marvel's new "Hulk Vs." DVD

We've recently updated the guest section of our web site, so please take a moment and visit:

http://www.gatheringofthegargoyles.com/g2009/guests.html

Hotel Information:

The Gathering 2009 will take place August 21-24, 2009 at the fabulous Hilton in Universal City, located at the main entrance to Universal Studios Hollywood and Universal CityWalk!

Hilton Los Angeles / Universal City
555 Universal Hollywood Drive
Universal City, California, 91608

Telephone: 1-818-506-2500

Toll free: 1-800-HILTONS

The Hilton is offering a block rate of $159 per night (double occupancy) to Gathering attendees who call for reservations by July 23, 2009. Please mention that you are with "The Gathering of the Gargoyles" when calling to receive this special rate. For more information and a link for online reservations, please visit:

http://www.gatheringofthegargoyles.com/g2009/hotel.html

We're extremely excited to have The Gathering 2009 at such a fabulous hotel, and we hope you can join us!

Anthology Contest:

The Gathering of the Gargoyles is proud to present, once again, an anthology of all-new and original fan work!

History and mystery, Illuminati hideout, place of power, deathtrap, mind-game... any or all of these and more... this is a building with many, many doors. Open one and see what's inside. Reserve a room, or a suite. Check in. Get comfy. You'll be staying a while. The anthology theme for 2009 is the Hotel Cabal, from the episode "Revelations."

The deadline for entries is April 1, 2009 for both stories and artwork. For complete rules and guidelines, please visit:

http://www.gatheringofthegargoyles.com/g2009/anthology.html

Music Video Contest:

The Gathering of the Gargoyles once again presents an opportunity for the fans to share their music video ideas with our guests and attendees! We invite you to tell a story, share some comedic gold, or highlight your favorite moments from the show with music. Have fun and let your creativity flow on screen!

The deadline for entries is August 7, 2009. For complete rules and guidelines, please visit:

http://www.gatheringofthegargoyles.com/g2009/music-vids.html

Dates to Remember:

April 30, 2009 - The last day to take advantage of the current membership rates of $65.00 for adults and $35.00 for children ages 10 through 14 (accompanied by an adult). If you haven't yet purchased your membership for this year's Gathering of the Gargoyles, now is the time!

http://www.gatheringofthegargoyles.com/g2009/registration.html

July 23, 2009 - Deadline for hotel reservations at the Hilton Los Angeles / Universal City to receive the Gathering's discounted block rate.

August 21 - 24, 2009 - The 13th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles.


Questions? Comments? Contact us at: staff@gatheringofthegargoyles.com

- The Gathering 2009 Staff
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Register for the Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"We all wear masks, Spider-Man. But which one is real? The one that hides your face or the one that is your face?" - The Green Goblin
posted @ Wed, Feb 25, 2009 5:16:49 pm EST from 75.50.154.20

Battlebeast> I've been to Paris. I loved it...but then again, I just love travel. I've also been to Germany and Madagascar. The Louvre was a delight, and the only crowd was around the Mona Lisa (and they were all little Japanese tourists--go figure) Though, the Venus de Milo exhibit was closed when I went there, I imagine there'll a crowd there too.

When you're at Notre Dame, take a close look at the gargoyles, some of them are doing the most interesting things. One is eating (stone) grapes, and another is skinning a (stone) rabbit.

Wow. I haven't posted here in a long time. I come here every day, and read the comments, but I haven't felt the need to say anything in a while. I should speak up more.
Chip - [Sir_Griff723 at yahoo dot com]
"You cannot make a cup of tea large enough, or a book long enough to suit me."--C.S. Lewis
posted @ Wed, Feb 25, 2009 1:36:19 pm EST from 68.164.4.81

High Noon is a great episode. Here's Greg's ramble back in 2001 which was fun to read because I never had.

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?rid=142

Special thanks to those who put together and maintain the GargWiki. I got the link from there.
Anthony Tini
posted @ Wed, Feb 25, 2009 1:15:42 pm EST from 159.240.11.254

I love "High Noon" for its animation. In my opinion, it's one of the single best episodes of the series (post-Awakening) in terms of animation. Except for all those errors with Desdemona's hair.

One thing that bugs me about "High Noon"...well, not specifically about "High Noon" but about the episodes that precede it, is that it takes several episodes for Demona's turning-human-during-the-day thing to become relevant. We have "The Mirror" where this is first established and then quite a few episodes with Demona in them before we get to "High Noon"..."Vows" and the "City of Stone" episodes. I wish that the fact that Demona turns to a human during the day had played a part (even if it was a small one) in those episodes. Alternatively, I wish that there had been a scene from "The Mirror" establishing that Demona turns human in the "Previously on Gargoyles" bit at the beginning of "High Noon". I think this is a bit of a weakness...most casual fans and child viewers would probably have forgotten about Demona turning to a human during the day by the time that "High Noon" comes along, so I wish that had been something there to remind them. Also, anyone who missed "The Mirror" would be left wondering what is going on.

Coldstone's design bothers me as well. It seems to me like he was ORIGINALLY intended to be a flesh-and-blood gargoyle with cybernetic parts, and then the staff later decided to make him reanimated stone. If he was going to be reanimated stone from the beginning, then his mouth, hair, and eyes should have all been grey. They should not be white/red, because that is not what the color that Gargoyle's tongues, eyes, and hair are when they are in stone hibernation. As he is, he does not really look like reanimated stone to me. The only real physical indication that he is reanimated stone is that crack in his thigh. But, there is still the hair/eye/mouth thing, which makes him look organic. Also, I too wish that his old body had been orange or green or brown or something, to create a sharper contrast with his reanimated stone body.
Rebel
posted @ Wed, Feb 25, 2009 11:08:50 am EST from 198.175.205.251

I love "High Noon." It's a great "Elisa" Episode.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Wed, Feb 25, 2009 10:47:02 am EST from 75.156.190.146

Justin> Your idea sounds a lot like the Hyborian Age of Robert E. Howard's Conan stories.

http://hyboria.xoth.net/races/human_vanir.htm
Algernon
posted @ Wed, Feb 25, 2009 9:21:27 am EST from 149.157.1.180

I've been to France a few times (2 of them school trips) but not Paris
VickyUK - [vickyfanofwwe at aol dot com]
posted @ Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:45:46 am EST from 64.12.117.74

High Noon> It's been quite a while since I watched "High Noon" and I don't know if I'll have time today to review it, but here are my thoughts based on my somewhat fuzzy memories.

One of the things I like about this episode is something Greg W points out in his comments about it: the fact that Elisa doesn't immediately recognize Demona as a human. We the audience know it's her because we learned that Puck granted her the "gift" of turning human by day, and we probably would have recognized her anyways because we're looking at a cartoon character who looks pretty similar in her two forms. But if we were actually in Elisa's position, we would probably have a very similar reaction. We might think this person looks somehow familiar, but the subtle differences between the face of a real human and a humanoid gargoyle, combined with the fact that Demona turning into a human is pretty far beyond what we believe to be possible at the moment, would probably keep us from realizing the truth.

Coldstone/Othello's skin color still bugs me and probably always will. I really wish Othello had been orange or something so the contrast between the skin color of the living gargoyle and the reanimated stone parts of Coldstone was more obvious. But what's done is done.

To me "High Noon" feels like something of a "bridge" episode, picking up some story threads that were started in other episodes - like what happened to Macbeth and Demona after the Weird Sisters took them and Elisa learning about Demona being human by day - and setting up a bunch of other concepts to be picked up later - , the Gathering, the three magical talismans, Coldstone being reactivated. This isn'tt o say that this isn't a good episode in its own right with a lot of good moment, including Elisa coming to the rescue of the helpless clan. But much of it's purpose is paying off what's come before and setting up things to come.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:23:47 am EST from 146.115.115.33

I've never been to Paris. But my friend went there for a whole semester once for study abroad. For the most part, she liked it.
Rebel
posted @ Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:52:00 am EST from 198.175.205.251

I've been to Paris.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Must you humans name everything? Nothing is real to you til you've named it, given it limits..." - Hudson
posted @ Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:20:21 am EST from 70.237.193.108

Well, it offcial!! iN 46 1/2 DAYS, I will be standing atop the most famous tower in the world! Yes, the one made by Moiseur Eiffel.

Paris, baby! I will also be visting Notre Dame (In paris, not Illinois!) and I hope to envision Demona atop and Canmore falling to his death... because that would be pretty cool.

Anyway, I am going to the louvre, and Disneyland.

I am totally excited.

Anyone ever been?
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Wed, Feb 25, 2009 2:04:21 am EST from 75.156.190.146

I will just state my idea before I respond to individuals:
I believe thatTitania knew all alone, and perhaps she and Puck were in some kind of understanding. And it all has to do with what Titania whispered to Fox at the end. Her saying "perhaps this is what I had intended all along" Somehow she wanted Puck to stay behind. Perhaps for whenever Mab breaks free.

It could be that Owen was not generating any detectable magic, but Titania made no attempt to hide hers. Which would explain why Oberon needed Boudicca, but could sense Titania.

But Greg is correct, Oberon was very familiar with her scent.....

Owen and Anastasia were standing side by side, and Owens reaction to her remark is a dead give away to me that she already knew his identity. Oberon referred to him as a human, sos eemed unaware of Puck till the end.

Lindon> I was aware that the radio play would not be released till the paperbacks were sold. I was just unaware of when it was. I am hoping Gregeron wont keep us waiting until next summer.

As for the Footage problem. I want to post them on you tube. The recordings are on those small digital video cassettes. I connected my digital camcorder to a Dazzle box using its ds cable, the dazzle was connected directly to my DVD burner. The software for the dazzle worked fine, but it wouldn't register the camcorder.
I have to have the things recorded to a digital video file before I can post them on u-tube.

One final issue, a bit of self whoring. For a long time I have had an interest in writing, which I discussed with certain people at the Gathering, Greg Included. Sense that time, I have been refining three main story ideas, and wanted to know If there were any here I could use as Guinea Pigs, to see what they thought?

One I call the "Forgotten Age" is deals with the sagas of the time before the rise of the known ancient civilizations. Each of the kingdoms were the forbears of the ones we know. For instance, as it was before the time of Odin, the Nordic tribes worship Ymir the Frost Giant. The proto-celt venerate Balor a fire god. There was always a naturally occurring cataclysm that wiped out each age, so the current one had virtually no knowledge of the one that preceded it. For the FA, it was what we call the Ice Age. My idea is the ice age was caused by the slaying of Ymir, at the hands of a new and arrogant god. Who sought to overthrow the frost giants and establish his own race: Odin.


Now if you will excuse me, I got a call from Amp. He says Lexington locked himself in the bathroom, crying about what they will name the children....
Justin "I'd Rather Be Pillaging"
posted @ Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:39:22 pm EST from 98.227.89.128

I also agree with the opinion that Titania wasn't really hiding her aura (or whatever), and naturally Oberon would be curious to know why she was there. Things moved pretty quickly after their reunion and revelation to the Xanatos family. Titania and Alex simply took priority over finding the hiding and absent Puck. I also think Oberon's initial dismissal of Owen's threat shows how good Puck's masquerade was and how well he stuck to it. Here is this clearly straight laced human, the very opposite of what Puck is and has most likely passed himself as in the past.
Asatira
posted @ Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:47:52 pm EST from 68.190.20.172

Okay, in the episode High Noon, Hudson could tell automatically that something wasn't right. After the clan splits up, Bronx picks up Demona's scent in what looked like an ordinary closet to Brooklyn and that right there is where he lowered his guard which gave Demona the advantage. But I don't think, however, that Brooklyn is as experienced in battle as Hudson and Demona. He's still young and still learning.

In the library, I think MacBeth added insult to injury and rubbed gravel in Broadway's face at the same time by saying that he knew how to read. Broadway had to have felt hurt and angry by that taunt. I know I would have if somebody had said that to me.
Kendal - [kendal dot renfro at yahoo dot com]
Gargoyleslady
posted @ Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:14:21 pm EST from 209.235.111.116

I'm inclined to agree that Puck was hiding and Titania was not. It may also be because Puck was going out of his way to play the role of a human, while Titania might have been a little less thorough, making her disguise only as accurate as it needed to be to fool the average human. I kind of doubt Titania would put up with having her arm turned to stone. She might work out a plausible explanation for how she was able to cure herself, but I can't see her being so devoted to her role as a human as to suffer with a stone arm any longer than she absolutely had to.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Tue, Feb 24, 2009 6:37:07 pm EST from 146.115.115.33

Well, Oberon also knows Titania a lot better than Puck. In the biblical sense. ;)
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Register for the Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"We all wear masks, Spider-Man. But which one is real? The one that hides your face or the one that is your face?" - The Green Goblin
posted @ Tue, Feb 24, 2009 5:02:02 pm EST from 76.95.180.59

On Oberon: Maybe Titania WANTED to be found? Remember how she tells Fox that this could have been the result she was trying to produce from the beginning, and not necessarily a result where Alex was separated from his mom. Hey, just throwing another idea out there :P
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Tue, Feb 24, 2009 4:48:15 pm EST from 157.242.209.228

I agree with Landon. He needed Boudicca to find Puck, but somehow he could sense Titania without any help.
Rebel
posted @ Tue, Feb 24, 2009 4:25:28 pm EST from 198.175.205.251

Landon> Oberon was kind of distracted at the time, not to mention he was just severely weakened by a harpoon.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Register for the Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"We all wear masks, Spider-Man. But which one is real? The one that hides your face or the one that is your face?" - The Green Goblin
posted @ Tue, Feb 24, 2009 3:58:38 pm EST from 76.95.180.59

Oberon had a closer proximity to Titania then Puck. He just needed Buddicca to get him close enough to detect Puck or Titania's magical aura so to speak. Is that good enough?
Vinnie - [tpeano29 at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Tue, Feb 24, 2009 3:37:46 pm EST from 69.54.209.21

Perhaps Puck was simply shielding himself better. Titania had no reason to hide herself from Oberon; she was just there to, very quickly, steal Alex and run back to Avalon. She didnt know Oberon was after her and so had no reason to hide her magic from her husband.

Puck, however, knew that Oberon was coming after him eventually and so hid his magic as best he could. He couldnt hide his scent, though, which is why Oberon borrowed Buddica. When Oberon does finally find Puck, he doesnt have Buddica to tell him that Owen is Puck and thinks him only a human until Puck reveals himself.

Thats how I viewed the situation, anyway.
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Tue, Feb 24, 2009 3:34:37 pm EST from 209.243.38.9

Greg - Oberon required Boudicca to track Puck. Once he was in the castle, he detected Titania's presence and stopped Boudicca's search for Puck. So it seems that he can detect Titania, but can't detect Puck, at least when he isn't actively trying. I don't think Greg has ever explicitly said why this is.

I skimmed through the episodes this morning. Right before Owen turns to Puck, Oberon says something like 'Do you think a stone fist can stop me, human?' Paraphrasing, but I know 'stone fist' and 'human' are in the quote. Oberon could probably reveal Owen's true identify if he wanted to, but there was no indication that Oberon was suspicious.
Landon Thomas - [lumpmoose at googles dot email dot service]
posted @ Tue, Feb 24, 2009 3:21:41 pm EST from 128.101.32.234

Does anyone else think that Demona's voice actor should voice Mystique in an X-men series if she hasn't already cause she sounds like Mystique.
spideyforever
posted @ Tue, Feb 24, 2009 3:11:20 pm EST from 75.118.152.5

Oberon followed Puck's 'scent' to the castle, discovered Titania, and reasonably got distracted. Owen was gone anyway.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Register for the Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"We all wear masks, Spider-Man. But which one is real? The one that hides your face or the one that is your face?" - The Green Goblin
posted @ Tue, Feb 24, 2009 3:04:55 pm EST from 76.95.180.59

Oberon followed Puck's 'scent' to the castle, discovered Titania, and reasonably got distracted. Owen was gone anyway.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Register for the Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"We all wear masks, Spider-Man. But which one is real? The one that hides your face or the one that is your face?" - The Green Goblin
posted @ Tue, Feb 24, 2009 3:04:53 pm EST from 76.95.180.59

As for Justics question on why Oberon didnt recognize Puck. I think that in that episode Puck left Xenato's castle and left some sort of disk (or whatever they had back in the 90s) for David to protect his home. But when Owen came back and turned into Puck. So i dont even think that were was time for Oberon to realize that its Puck. i might be wrong. I dont remember the episode to well.

What I dont get it how is it that Puck had the power to do all that to Oberon. All that stuff he did to him while telling him his abot him as owen?
Irina
posted @ Tue, Feb 24, 2009 2:47:28 pm EST from 149.31.25.203

Ill tell ya, Im to the point of hunting down someone who was at the Gathering a begging them to tell me how the Stone Arc ends. This close!

But its nice of SLG to want to bring some pages to WonderCon. If anyone is see, commit every detail of the pages to memory or, better yet, take a picture! I really hope that gets approved by Disney.

It reassures me that they are aiming for a summer release for the paperback trades. When they said before that the May/June release was not gonna happen, I was worried they meant it was going to be pushed back to Christmas 09. I can wait until summer... maybe ^_^
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Tue, Feb 24, 2009 2:42:43 pm EST from 209.243.38.9

Is anyone going to be at WonderCon? It'd be nice to have someone be able to talk with SLG a bit and get some info on why the trade keeps getting pushed out and what the release window looks like now.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Tue, Feb 24, 2009 12:23:58 pm EST from 146.115.115.33

Greg's going to be at WonderCon in San Francisco this Friday and Saturday: http://slg-news.livejournal.com/320968.html

SLG says they might bring a few pages from both upcoming trades.
Landon Thomas - [lumpmoose at googles dot email dot service]
posted @ Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:58:23 am EST from 128.101.32.234

Justin - Usually you have to use specific software to burn movies to DVD (in a format that's readable by DVD players). I believe both Vista and Mac OS X come with software that can do it. There's also free software that can do it, but it can be complicated and most of them are designed for Linux.

An easier solution would be to put them on YouTube. It supports movie files up the HD now, so there shouldn't be much quality loss. You can also keep the video private, based on a list of YouTube accounts allowed. But I hope you keep it public because I'd personally like to see some Gathering footage. Once it's on YouTube, you can email a link to whoever you want to view it.
Landon Thomas - [lumpmoose at googles dot mail dot service]
posted @ Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:08:16 am EST from 216.250.163.157

Justin > I wouldn't be surprised if Titania knew all along. But Oberon definitely didn't know...but I agree with you, I'm not sure WHY he didn't know.

Anyway, the radio play contains spoilers from issue #9, so I suspect that it will only be posted online AFTER the trade paperbacks come out. Though to be honest, I think this might be playing it a bit too safe. The Gargoyles fandom is a small fandom and I think anyone who saw the radio play and then got #9 "spoiled" for them would almost certainly still purchase the trades.
Rebel
posted @ Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:05:35 am EST from 198.175.205.251

Hiya People, its Justin from Chicago. Its been a long time sense I dropped by in here. There are a few things I wanted discuss. Ever sense the last Gathering I've wanted to share the video I shot with all the other deviants. But have never been able to transfer the digital video to DVD. If anyone here is familiar with the whole process, Id like to talk with them.

Anyway, there's always been one thing that's stuck in my head from the series. In the episodes The Gathering pt 1-3, Owen panicked when he heard Anastasia remark she remarried her first husband. Essentially he was aware she was Titania in disguise. And later confirms this when confronting Oberon. My question is, how is it that he knew about her true identity, but how is that she seemed unaware that Owen was Puck? Even Oberon seemed unaware it, until Puck finally reveled himself. Oberon could sense his wife's presence, under her human guise. But how could neither of them seem to detect Puck?

It could possible depend on the amount of magical energy the subject has. Puck being far less of a flame than Titania., allowing him to slip under her radar. Even when standing right next to her.

But I've always thought that perhaps she knew all along. And it is part of some plotline Greg has yet to revel, or something I have yet to read in the archives. Like I said, I am only a casual browser.

One last thing, has there been any new on when the footage from the 2008 radio play will be posted?

Anyway, thanks for any help on both either issue.


-Justin
Justin "I'd Rather Be Pillaging"
posted @ Mon, Feb 23, 2009 10:36:01 pm EST from 98.227.89.128

Her name is spelled Elisa. That's with an S, not a Z.
Patrick - [<-- Gathering 2009]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Mon, Feb 23, 2009 8:54:35 pm EST from 173.88.144.38

spideyforever> They forgot as that was part of the spell. For them to forget their true and original form. It helped to explain why all of Manhattan forgot they were humans and didn't have a mass panic.
Siren
posted @ Mon, Feb 23, 2009 8:50:15 pm EST from 72.188.139.212

I just finished watching "the mirror" on youtube and one part about it bugged me. Why did Eliza forget she was human and thought that Goliath was turned into a Gargoyle. Goliath thought Eliza turned back into a human so shouldn't Eliza have thought he was turned human if they were seeing each other from a different view of the mirror. Maybe it was a line error or something
spideyforever
posted @ Mon, Feb 23, 2009 8:48:14 pm EST from 75.118.152.5

Antiyonder > Oh, I'm not suggesting that you said they were justified. I'm responding to this:

"Magneto did nothing to deserve being sent to a death camp"

by pointing out that Demona also did nothing to deserve the humans' ill-treatment of the gargoyles at Castle Wyvern, which served as the catalyst for her eventual betrayal.

But yes, I agree with your main point--Demona's hatred of humans serves as her way of scapegoating the blame for her own mistakes onto others.
Rebel
posted @ Mon, Feb 23, 2009 7:07:49 pm EST from 198.175.205.251

When I first saw "Gargoyles" ("Awakening, to be precise), I'd already seen a few episode of the FOX "X-Men" series, and so I felt reminded of Xavier and Magneto when I saw the scenes between Goliath and Demona. But the concept of a member of a persecuted minority who decides to seek revenge in a dreadful way, repaying evil with more evil, has been around longer than Magneto - it goes back at least to Shylock in "The Merchant of Venice".
Todd Jensen
www.gunnerkrigg.com/index2.php
posted @ Mon, Feb 23, 2009 6:54:44 pm EST from 4.244.215.96

Rebel> Of course neither of them are justified. My main point is that Magneto truly feels that humans are problematic whereas to Demona they make for a scapegoat.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Mon, Feb 23, 2009 6:46:34 pm EST from 71.120.226.102

Demonskyre, I just wanted to say that your post cornerning Goliath and Thailog is gold. Awesome stuff that really makes me want to take another look at those episodes/issues.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Must you humans name everything? Nothing is real to you til you've named it, given it limits..." - Hudson
posted @ Mon, Feb 23, 2009 6:43:50 pm EST from 70.237.193.108

Yes, but just as Magneto didn't deserve the concentration camp, Demona (and the other gargoyles) didn't deserve the humans' ill-treatment of them at Castle Wyvern. Obviously it was nowhere near as severe as a concentration camp, but it obviously affected Demona a great deal (and a great deal moreso than it affected the other gargoyles). It's sorta like kids that get picked on in high school--most kids just learn to live with it and eventually have better and happier lives in college and beyond. But some especially sensitive kids take it really hard and end up shooting up their school. There is NO excuse for their actions and their actions aren't justifiable, but at the same time, if the other kids had never ridiculed them, it wouldn't have happened.
Rebel
posted @ Mon, Feb 23, 2009 6:33:33 pm EST from 198.175.205.251

The Goliath/Professor X comparison is plausible. The Magneto/Demona one is iffy.

I recall a comment stating that when you get down to it, that both of them are very different.

Magneto did nothing to deserve being sent to a death camp, whereas Demona was clearly at fault for the Wyvern Massacre. Magneto genuinely believes that humans are the problematic race, and if there was another way he would try to avoid shedding human blood. Demona, on the other hand, is unable to own up to her role in the Wyvern Massacre. Her anti-humanity crusades is her way of avoiding responsibility for her actions.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Mon, Feb 23, 2009 6:22:39 pm EST from 71.120.226.102

spidey> In fact: http://mgc.gargoyles-fans.org/entries/805/21.jpg (from MGC, http://mgc.gargoyles-fans.org/result.php?topic_id=60). From left to right: Robyn Canmore, Demona, Fox, Delilah and Elisa. It's by an artist named Lady Moria.
Supermorff
posted @ Mon, Feb 23, 2009 5:36:08 pm EST from 86.131.17.55

spideyforever> I've noticed that similarity, although I'm not sure how much Goliath is like Prof X in all honesty. Plus, Demona's hair and skin tone always reminded me of Mystique as well.

Also, Elisa WAS initially scared of Goliath, but she got over it quickly (being saved from falling off a building helped).
Supermorff
posted @ Mon, Feb 23, 2009 5:13:54 pm EST from 86.131.17.55

Does anyone think Goliath and Demona are like Professor Xavier and Magneto. Goliath believes that Gargoyles will eventually be accepted by humans like Professor Xavier thinks the X-Men will be and Demona thinks that humans and Gargoyles cannot live together in peace as Magneto believes the same with mutants. Demona's voice also reminds me of Mystique.

Rebel> Eliza definitely was the first person to accept him. She is one of the coolest humans ever even though she's fictional. I mean she wasn't scared of the Gargoyles when she first met him
spideyforever
posted @ Mon, Feb 23, 2009 5:09:11 pm EST from 75.118.152.5

Like you said, I think because Sevarious so readily decided to work for Thailog is part of the reason why Thailog doesn't seem to have these issues with him. That, and Sevarious has something Thailog doesn't have (and probably never will). Thailog has a conniving mind that is as clever as Xanatos', physical power that is equal to Goliath's, but he doesn't have the scientific know-how that Sevarious has, and I doubt he feels like learning all of that. Sevarious can therefore serve as a useful tool for Thailog, whereas I think he probably sees both Xanatos and Goliath as rivals. Xanatos is a rival when it comes to financial expertise and being a clever trickster, and Goliath is a rival when it comes to being the best and most powerful gargoyle. Or something like that. But Sevarious is not a rival. Sevarious brings something else entirely to the table and the Thailog/Sevarious cooperation is mutually beneficial.

As to how things would have been different if Goliath had been more accepting of Thailog...I don't know. I suspect that ultimately Thailog would have turned out more or less the same. Goliath probably would have attempted to teach him about being a gargoyle, but I think after a few nights, it would be apparent to both Goliath and Thailog that Thailog's goals and the gargoyle way of life are incompatible. Plus, I think Thailog would have found Goliath's tutelage condescending, even though I'm sure Goliath would have good intentions. I think Thailog and Goliath might have ended up having a "better" relationship, but they still wouldn't have been on the same side. Maybe Thailog wouldn't have stabbed him in #5. I suspect their feelings towards each other would be about the same, although there might be less violence (so in other words they might be even more like Xanatos and Petros). But hey, I don't really know. Either way, I definitely don't think that Thailog could have been "converted" to the gargoyle way.

Also, I think the fact that Elisa was the first person to really accept him and recognize his autonomy is important. Xanatos saw him as a pawn or tool (or "stooge", as Thailog puts it), Sevarious saw him as his own creation, and Goliath saw him as an abomination. But one of the first things Elisa says is, "He's as much a Gargoyle as you are." Maybe that initial reaction of hers has something to do with why he ultimately included her DNA in Delilah (that, and the fact that it would enrage Demona and fulfill his own oedipus-type feelings). Or maybe it doesn't.
Rebel
posted @ Mon, Feb 23, 2009 4:36:44 pm EST from 198.175.205.251

Spidey: He stayed a Beast . . . it wasn't until the ground assault did Puck transform him, quickly regretting that "he should have went with the Chihuahua."
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Mon, Feb 23, 2009 3:50:33 pm EST from 157.242.215.123

I just realized that Broadway doesn't have his human form available at least on my computer. Also did Bronx turn into a regular dog when the Gargoyles turned human.
spideyforever
posted @ Mon, Feb 23, 2009 3:31:09 pm EST from 75.118.152.5

Rebel> I do think Thailog feels a need to prove himself to his "fathers", even if he's unable or unwilling to acknowlege it. Thailog's "Double Jeopardy" scheme could be interprated as an attempt to prove that he could beat Xanatos at his own game.

And yeah, his relationships with Demona and Delilah point to some serious oedipal issues. Well that, and that he has some damn fine taste in women. ;)
Algernon
posted @ Mon, Feb 23, 2009 1:42:24 pm EST from 149.157.1.180

Rebel> The comment was mine, but I think you've got a point there. On a conscious level, I think Thailog considers the whole idea of Goliath being his father to be a great joke and a fun way to exacerbate any remaining guilt Goliath has over his initial reaction to Thailog. Subconciously, it gets a little more complicated. If you asked Thailog, I doubt he would admit he wanted anything other than to increase his own wealth and power and have as much of his own particular brand of "fun" as possible while doing it. But Thailog was created because of Xanatos's desire to have his own counter to that Manhattan Clan that is their equal or superior. (If Xanatos had just wanted his own clan, he could have stopped with the Steel Clan. He kept trying because his clan had to be at least as capable as Goliath's.) Whether he realizes it or not, Thailog seems to have taken this goal to heart, and expanded upon it. He wants to prove that he is better than not only Goliath, but also Xanatos. I think your idea that Thailog wants some kind of recognition from Goliath much as David Xanatos want Petros to be proud of him does have merit. I doubt Thailog wants Goliath to be proud of him; much of what Thailog does is designed to horrify, anger, or provoke his foes, Goliath included. But even if neither Goliath nor Xanatos ever acknowledge it, Thailog seems to want to prove he's the better man, or gargoyle. His debut episode has him out-Xanatosing Xanatos. The next time we see him, he's in a relationship with Demona, showing dear old "Dad" that he's perfectly capable of obtaining anything Goliath ever had for himself, or winning that which Goliath has lost. I don't know if Thailog was aware at the time that Goliath had already given up hope of ever restoring his relationship with Demona to what it once was, but I doubt it mattered. Thailog is also like Xanatos in that he has multiple motivations for what he does. If Goliath had seemed completely unconcerned about Demona's new relationship with Thailog, he'd still have his scheme to take control of Nightstone and Macbeth's fortune. The clones are another project that serves Thailog's objectives to outdo both his fathers. He makes his own clan, again proving that he can get anything Goliath has, and he's improving on Xanatos's schemes. I have little doubt that Xanatos probably would have cloned the rest of the clan had Thailog turned out more to his satisfaction. But Thailog has taken the lesson from the circumstances of his own creation that if you make a smart clone, the clone will eventually turn on you and seek to further its own interests. Better to make clones that are less intelligent, yet totally obedient. And Delilah? Again, multiple purposes served. Thailog gets what he sees as an ideal mate. Demona is bot infuriated and humiliated at seeing herself replaced in Thailog's "affections" by a clone of herself mixed with the DNA of the human she lost Goliath to. Most of the Manhattan Clan is probably pretty appalled as well. And in Thailog's mind, he may well see Delilah as an effective way of "solving the problem" of Goliath's past love for Demona who he is now morally at odds with and his current love for Elisa who is not a gargoyle. Goliath has had to struggle with the problems with each of the two great loves of his life, but Thailog can have it both ways. He's showing Goliath and Xanatos that he can get what they want much more effectively than they ever could. In some ways, I guess that does make him sort of like their son, wanting to prove that he can be more successful than his parents could ever dream of being.

You'll notice I haven't mentioned Thailog's third "father," Dr. Anton Sevarius. It's possible that Thailog places less importance on Sevarius, but I think he may have escaped Thailog's ire because he's the only one of the three to have acknowledged Thailog as a successful individual, the one who "treats him like an adult," so to speak. Sevarius has no qualms about accepting Thailog as a client, which means he will allow Thailog to occupy the same position that Xanatos once did. I'm not saying that there's never going to be trouble between them. But for now, they seem to have a more functional relationship than the one Thailog has with either Goliath or Xanatos.

Here's another question: what do you think would have happened if Goliath's initial reaction to Thailog had been more compassionate?
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Mon, Feb 23, 2009 1:33:46 pm EST from 146.115.115.33

Last week, someone made this statement:

"Thailog also only considers Goliath his "father" in the most sarcastic possible sense. I think he uses the term almost exclusive to push Goliath's buttons. "

I wonder if this is entirely true. Obviously Thailog doesn't love Goliath or anything, and I don't know if he really thinks of Goliath as a "father" in any sense that matters, but I think there may be some parallels between Thailog's feelings towards Goliath and David Xanatos' feelings towards Petros Xanatos. From what I can tell, Xanatos secretly cares what his father thinks of him even though he pretends not to. I think Thailog has something similar going on with Goliath. Except he obviously doesn't want Goliath's approval. But I think maybe he wants Goliath's attention, or maybe he wants Goliath to respect/fear him...to acknowledge him as an equal or a better, even if they are on wildly different sides. So far, Goliath has not done this. In "Double Jeopardy", he called Thailog an "abomination", and then in "Sanctuary", he made a specific point of telling Thailog that he was "still a clone, new to this world".

The fact that Thailog made a clone of Goliath's two great loves also shows that his feelings towards Goliath are...complicated.

What is everyone else's thoughts on the nature of Thailog's feelings towards Goliath?
Rebel
posted @ Mon, Feb 23, 2009 11:08:47 am EST from 198.175.205.251

Man, this years the Oscars REALLY were worth it.

Although Mickey Rourke did not win (what sadnned me - but then again, he wouldn't be Rourke if he would have won. Plus Sean Penn cannot get enough recognition!!), I was not disappointed with one single award. And Danny Boyle got the Oscar for best director???????????? Amazing. :)

Nominated by tragedy or not, Heath Ledger deserved the award. Every. Single. Bit. Of. It!!!!!!!!!
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Mon, Feb 23, 2009 9:05:58 am EST from 84.191.230.100

Or not.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Mon, Feb 23, 2009 7:55:41 am EST from 69.223.184.203

Tinth.

Oops, damn keys. Tenth.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Mon, Feb 23, 2009 7:54:41 am EST from 69.223.184.203

(N+1)th!
Patrick - [<-- Gathering 2009]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Mon, Feb 23, 2009 6:45:31 am EST from 173.88.144.38

Nth
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Once a man has seen, he can never turn his back on it. Never pretend it doesn't exist. No matter who orders him to look the other way. We do not do this thing because it is permitted. We do it because we have to. We do it because we are compelled." -Rorschach ("Watchmen")
posted @ Mon, Feb 23, 2009 6:22:05 am EST from 71.62.136.51

8th
VickyUK - [vickyfanofwwe at aol dot com]
posted @ Mon, Feb 23, 2009 3:49:49 am EST from 64.12.117.74

Countdown: It's a tradition for the room to practice counting to ten before we comment. It keeps us calm. (or something)
Samuel - [AnglOfHellO at AOL dot com]
Now, now... Language.
posted @ Mon, Feb 23, 2009 3:01:16 am EST from 68.55.57.46

lol. I never understood what that numbering thing was that you did last week. Now I think I know. The first 10 to post in the new week?
(7) seventh then? hehe
Irina
posted @ Mon, Feb 23, 2009 1:41:41 am EST from 69.22.218.127

(6)Sixth for now!
Vinnie - [tpeano29 at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Mon, Feb 23, 2009 1:17:49 am EST from 69.54.209.20

FOURTH IN THE NAME OF THE OSCARS!

I just found out tonight (While watching the Oscars) that Ollie Johnston died this past year! He was one of Walt's "Nine old men" and work on all the animated classic up to 1974. He and Frank Thomas animated over 75% of the Jungle Book together. He was 95 years old.

RIP.

Heath won. No surprise, although I still maintain that had he been alive, he probably wouldn't have been nominated. But I still LOVED his joker.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Mon, Feb 23, 2009 12:59:35 am EST from 75.156.190.146

Fourth! Success!
Samuel - [AnglOfHellO at AOL dot com]
Now, now... Language.
posted @ Mon, Feb 23, 2009 12:58:09 am EST from 68.55.57.46

Third in the name of . . . scarves. Yeah, scarves.
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Mon, Feb 23, 2009 12:28:56 am EST from 157.242.210.186

Second!
Spen
"What if this wasn't a hypothetical question?"
posted @ Mon, Feb 23, 2009 12:04:02 am EST from 66.43.205.110

First time in a while Ive made it into the top ten.

One. Hello new week!
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Mon, Feb 23, 2009 12:02:51 am EST from 209.243.38.9