Comment Room Archive : Gargoyles : Station Eight

@ Supermorff: Have you further heard that it is actually going so far back, that it is now speculated to orriginaly be a piece of propaganda for a (I think) spanish king?
I have to check the french source though.
And yes, moor. I lost that word for a min.

The version Greg uses is pretty interresting, nevertheless. Especially with Perceval suffering from his sins, whilst in Eschenbachs version, he overcomes his sins.

@ Algernon: I looked into some of the Arthurian legends years ago and know the basic storyline (or elements), and found it interresting, but it couldn't quite capture me as Perceval did. I guess I'm not that into medieval writings. :S

Say, has GReg apparently ever mentioned Dr. Faustus?
I think the story (if you see Mephistopheles representation in it as a sort of trickster) fits into Gregs schemes... Probably Faustus is #1?
(Just guessing right now, but it would be interresting if he'd be in there)
So far, I guess the characters from other works Greg has mentiond (Sherlock Holmes, Dracula, etc.) are high ranking Illuminati members... but nowhere near #1.
Also, I'm curious who Quincy Jones is...
Brook
I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!
posted @ Sun, Mar 29, 2009 6:09:09 pm EDT from 84.191.192.110

Brook> interesting, but I was going by the version of the myth where Percival replaces the former Fisher King which apperantly Greg is useing...

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=843

P.S. Incidently, you might want to check out Roger Lancelyn Green's "King Arthur and his Knights of the Round Table" which Greg uses as his primary source for all things Arthurian.
Algernon
posted @ Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:51:03 pm EDT from 149.157.1.180

Brook> Okay, that's cool. Although Eschenbach's isn't exactly the original Percival story, being based on the work of Chretien de Troyes. I'm just saying.

And since America didn't exist, I really don't think Feirefiz's mother would have been African-American. A Moor, maybe, like Palomides?
Supermorff
posted @ Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:45:32 pm EDT from 86.131.14.67

Brook> Heh =P
lonerider26 - [lonerider26 at gmail dot com]
"I stand here, I cannot do otherwise."~Martin Luther
posted @ Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:23:01 pm EDT from 71.239.117.67

It is the orriginal Perceval story by Wolfram of Eschenbach. I've got this really huge volume somewhere around here.

It is basically the ancient text, with a "modern" translation of what is happenning next to it (for example Feirefiz of Anjou is described in the old text as havin a "spotted skin, like that of a cow" - his name comes from the french veir/vair, what mean grey/white spotted - obviously, this is not a disease or skin condition, but links to his mother, who is afro american).

The king I was speaking of is called Anfortas. During Percevals visit in the castle, he dinners with Anfortas, and before the grail (read below) is brought in to summon the meal, a bleeding spear is carried through the room, with all of the attendents moaning in agony and despair.

I would also like to add that in Eschenbachs Perceval, the holy grail is in the form of a STONE, who, miracuously, summons food and drinks.

If Greg read this... well, we might have the definite orrigin of the talking stone...
Brook
I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!
posted @ Sun, Mar 29, 2009 10:29:05 am EDT from 84.191.192.110

Brook> In which book is this?
Supermorff
posted @ Sun, Mar 29, 2009 9:20:05 am EDT from 86.131.14.67

@ Algernon: In the book, Perceval encounters two fishers who take him to what later is revealed to be the fisher king. Perceval is startled by the fact that the man is so quiet and seems to be in pain and agony, but is too reserved to ask him about it.

Later on, he is told whom he met (big "Oh my god, I was wrong, it was Christ all along!"-moment) and goes for the quest to find him.
The fisher king can only be freed of his pain (he was wounded with a poisoned spear between... his thigs... I'm not making this up, we had this in school years ago, and our teacher was very into that fact) is for a person asking him why he is in agony, thus sharing and releaving his pain.

In the book, he finds him after some years of rather interresting and entertaining adventures (including his half-brother, who's son to an afro-american mother, thus beeing discribed with a skin like a cow (oh, these people from the middle ages...) and his girlfriend, who shouts at him during their first few weeks they are together for no apparent reason, except to be sadistic), releaves him of his pain etc.

Now, in Gregs world, this might be very different.
So far, we have seen 2 ancient, immortal kings, and I bet on a third one to come soon. Although son to a Queen, Percevals adventures never really put the weigh on his presence as a king, so I doubt it will be him. I think that the 3rd immortal king will be #1 of the Illuminati.
Brook
I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!
posted @ Sun, Mar 29, 2009 7:58:44 am EDT from 84.191.192.110

@ lonerider: I did. My mother gave me these 4 HUGE volumes with everything years ago.
If she IS the REAL Sheherazade... this might get even more adult. ;)
Brook
I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!
posted @ Sun, Mar 29, 2009 7:49:07 am EDT from 84.191.192.110

Brook> I thought Duval was the Fisher King? Personally I subcribe to the theory that Percy is reserving the No. 1 spot for his old buddy Arthur.
Algernon
posted @ Sun, Mar 29, 2009 7:47:52 am EDT from 149.157.1.180

Brook> Heh, read Arabian Nights (the REAL one), and then tell me that ;)
lonerider26 - [lonerider26 at gmail dot com]
"I stand here, I cannot do otherwise."~Martin Luther
posted @ Sat, Mar 28, 2009 11:24:07 pm EDT from 71.239.117.67

@ Jack: OK.. although I'm still not fully convinced she is... It's probably still me and Thailogs Toga, battling some unspoken war out... XD

Anyways, I guess you're right. Except if Hacker IS lying and is some higher number, and that itself would be even add to the confusion... in a not-good-way.

But I thought it was confirmed Duval/Perceval was #2?
My personal guess is that the Fisher King would be #1. Although there is no further proof or hint in Gargoyles that he might be (aside from Perceval appearing and being #2, if I've not mixed things up), he would make an interresting character.

I think it could be anybody, except for Ras Al Ghul... THEN, I'd be PISSED! ;P
Brook
I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!
posted @ Sat, Mar 28, 2009 8:32:22 pm EDT from 84.191.210.137

@ Brook - Concerning Hacker's Illuminati number is 32, not much higher than Xanatos or Thailog (And Xanatos is on a quest for immortality), I'd guess Hacker is no one famous. Mace Malone was in the twenties and he was no one truly famous. But with Shari (trust me, it's scheherezade) being 9 and Percival perhaps being 1, I'd wager Quincy could be someone famous or legendary.
Just a hunch.
Jack-Pumpkinhead - [jtjgundam at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Sat, Mar 28, 2009 8:21:17 pm EDT from 204.8.188.8

HoE> Jen's most likely referring to just talking on places like AIM.
lonerider26 - [lonerider26 at gmail dot com]
"I stand here, I cannot do otherwise."~Martin Luther
posted @ Sat, Mar 28, 2009 4:19:46 pm EDT from 71.239.117.67

Taina showed me a picture of the Night Striker once. I remember saying that it reminded me of something the Alien might produce after a bad fit of indigestion.

Jennifer: I second Kerry. If these are public forums you speak of, I stopped believing in their existence long ago.

Spidey: Since we were never dating to begin with, I'm not sure why you're asking me to leave you. As for the things I say, stop acting like a child and I'll stop treating you like one.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"I don't know. I'm making this up as I go." - Indiana Jones
posted @ Sat, Mar 28, 2009 3:56:50 pm EDT from 71.62.136.51

@ Gore: I just now discovered the new layouts. Either that, or I'm incredibly slow. :S

Great work. All 4 of them!! I especially like the red one, although Lex looks as if his nose got a bit messed up. ;)
Brook
I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!
posted @ Sat, Mar 28, 2009 1:54:26 pm EDT from 84.191.210.137

@ Roy: That is indeed a sad issue, especially when it comes to Flicker. :(

You really have such a bible with you? O_O Amazing. How big is it, actually? I always imagined them to be like a big folder, where you'd have to flip through dozens of pages to find a certain something. :)

If you've designed that much: Good work. Seriously. I grew up with that kind of animation, and find it beautifully detailed and atmospheric still. It definetely set my standarts in how an atmosphere has to be set up, how collours have to be used for a good story to work.
Brook
I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!
posted @ Sat, Mar 28, 2009 1:51:50 pm EDT from 84.191.210.137

Yep. You're right. All it said was SoHo. Didn't say what the street address was, though.
Gargoyleslady - [kendal dot renfro at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Sat, Mar 28, 2009 1:20:00 pm EDT from 32.176.38.47

I think I know what I'm going to do with this whole moderation issue, but I've got a nasty cold and it's all just headaches right now. But something will happen.

Only 1 person has e-mailed me so far with their thoughts on he CR. I welcome more.
Gorebash - [gorebash at s8 dot org]
posted @ Sat, Mar 28, 2009 1:14:08 pm EDT from 70.22.191.109

Brook> Model sheets were given to all animators; a given for any animation production. We had our own "bibles." Heck, I even helped design some of the props, minor characters, etc. None of us at Disney Japan knew New York/Manhattan, so a lot of the designs, locations were based off coffee books we had on New York.

As for uploading artwork to places like Flicker, it's a no go. The last time I did that, it spread like wildfire to every little greedy fan who thought it was ok to steal it without asking for permission.
Roy
posted @ Sat, Mar 28, 2009 12:08:21 pm EDT from 71.84.197.71

@ Rebel: Well, you probably shouldn't state that you're using said illegal devices to obtain media... eb Sheriff and all that... ;)

@ Samuel: I think Delilah is one of the characters that people think way too less about. From what we've seen, her character is very keen on making her own rules and deciding what is right for her, and not to the people who try to use or corrupt her.
Right now, I think she's pretty grey area. She could turn into a villain, I personally doubt it, but the chance for it is there.

@ Roy: Say, were the models actually given "out" to the prod.crew after the series was finished?
That is of particular interrest to me. I guess you've got quite many of these then, innit? :) I love the Hopper-esque feeling of these empty cartoon spaces... if you would mind upping some to Flicker, that would be highly appreciated. :)
Brook
I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!
posted @ Sat, Mar 28, 2009 8:29:18 am EDT from 84.191.210.137

Perhaps since Delilah was "born" in one, visiting a mad scientist's lab is like seeing a childhood bedroom.
Patrick - [<-- Gathering 2009]
"Come up to the lab and see what's on the slab." - Dr. Dr. Frank-N-Furter:
posted @ Sat, Mar 28, 2009 8:02:42 am EDT from 173.88.144.38

Anonymouse> Does it not? That's a lapse that shall have to be corrected, if you're right. It's from the Series Bible that was produced for the first season of the show. A lot of information from the Bible was contradicted in season 2 (e.g. Coyote is referred to as Cy.O.T.I.), but there was nothing contradicting the fact that Elisa's apartment was in SoHo. So we went with it.
Supermorff
posted @ Sat, Mar 28, 2009 4:30:01 am EDT from 86.131.14.67

I'm interested in the floor plans to Elisa's apartment.

Unfortunately the wiki doesn't state where the information about Elisa's apartment being in Soho comes from.
Anonymouse
posted @ Sat, Mar 28, 2009 2:10:21 am EDT from 89.246.165.54

Yep, I was right: SoHo. http://gargoyles.dracandros.com/Elisa%27s_Apartment

Sorry for the double post.
Chip - [Sir_Griff723 at yahoo dot com]
You cannot make a cup of tea large enough, or a book long enough to suit me."--C.S. Lewis
posted @ Sat, Mar 28, 2009 1:26:19 am EDT from 68.164.0.200

Gargoyleslady>

I believe Elisa's apt is in SoHo, but don't quote me on it. Try the gargwiki.
Chip - [Sir_Griff723 at yahoo dot com]
You cannot make a cup of tea large enough, or a book long enough to suit me."--C.S. Lewis
posted @ Sat, Mar 28, 2009 1:25:05 am EDT from 68.164.0.200

Gore : Regarding the rules/guidelines, why not just use the same rules that we have in the TGS CR?
Spen
"What if this wasn't a hypothetical question?"
posted @ Sat, Mar 28, 2009 12:40:11 am EDT from 66.43.205.110

I'm currently checking to make sure someone hasn't already asked Greg this question but I wanted to know because I've never been to New York and so I'm not familiar with NYC.
Gargoyleslady - [kendal dot renfro at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Sat, Mar 28, 2009 12:35:05 am EDT from 32.176.34.25

X_x What's going on here?

Can't we all just get along?
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Sat, Mar 28, 2009 12:30:16 am EDT from 75.156.190.146

Nope, but I got the floor plans/model sheets for her apartment.
Roy
posted @ Sat, Mar 28, 2009 12:21:13 am EDT from 71.84.197.71

Anybody know where in Manhattan Elisa's and Matt's apartments are located?
Gargoyleslady - [kendal dot renfro at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 11:59:03 pm EDT from 32.176.34.25

Hi everyone, sad to see the comment room going to the dogs. Wait is humanity regressing really that fast?
Dan - [vodocius at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 11:08:23 pm EDT from 64.12.117.67

Samuel > I can't really picture Delilah having mad-scientist tendencies. But, I definitely think there was something going on there, some reason why she was in that room, though I don't have a clue what it is. I think Delilah is a character that is going to surprise us.
Rebel
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 9:23:53 pm EDT from 75.65.27.129

So, usually I don't mind when people glaze over my posts, but I'm reposting this because I actually want to talk about it.

"In "Bash", did anyone else notice that Delilah was hanging out in Xanatos' lab? It looked like the same place that X and Demona revivified Cold-stone. I wonder if she has any mad-scientist-like tendencies. It also could just have been that she was looking to be alone."

Thoughts?

I watched X-Men: Evolution when it was on television. I really enjoyed it. That show actually introduced me to a lot of different X-Men characters, like Shadow-Cat. She's the one I mention because I like her the most of the characters I met on that show.
Samuel - [AnglOfHellO at AOL dot com]
Now, now... Language.
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 9:12:15 pm EDT from 68.55.57.46

Also I think you can buy it from itunes. Sorry, I forgot to add that.
Rebel
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 8:32:09 pm EDT from 75.65.27.129

I used a torrent to get it. If you are not opposed to downloading torrents, you can go a google search for "x-men evolution torrents" and find torrents of the show. I don't know about other torrenting programs, but with BitTorrent, you get to decide if you want to download the whole torrent or just a part of it. If the torrent you choose is broken up into the different seasons, then you can download only the fourth season.

By the way guys, is it inappropriate to talk about using torrents and such in this CR? I know some places insist that you not talk about illegal downloading but I don't know if anyone here cares.
Rebel
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 8:31:40 pm EDT from 75.65.27.129

Rebel> I liked it. Where did you see season 4? I've been trying to find it both on DVD and online, and haven't had luck either way.
Charisma82
"Why should things be easy when they can be hard?"
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 8:17:02 pm EDT from 64.128.148.204

I recently watched all the episodes of all four seasons of X-men Evolution. Man, what a great show. And I'm not even an X-men fan.

I suspect a lot of you probably watched this show too, back when it was on. What did you think of it?
Rebel
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 8:00:26 pm EDT from 75.65.27.129

Dang, it seems so empty in here....
lonerider26 - [lonerider26 at gmail dot com]
"I stand here, I cannot do otherwise."~Martin Luther
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 6:47:18 pm EDT from 71.239.117.67

(If only these vehicles would have made the show...)
Brook
I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 6:33:54 pm EDT from 84.191.198.120

Gore> I am not against the comment room. I voiced my opinion and have emerged unscathed by the fires. I shall count my blessings and be off yet again.

I too think we can still catch those Power Ranger fans.

Landon, to the Xanatos XI 44 Roadster.
http://www.finalfrontiertoys.com/VintageToys/Gargoyles/Gargoyles_Roadster.JPG

Brook, you take the Rippin' Rider Cycle.
http://www.finalfrontiertoys.com/VintageToys/Gargoyles/Gargoyles_Ripper_Cycle.jpg

I will take the Night Stricker Action Vehicle.
http://www.finalfrontiertoys.com/VintageToys/Gargoyles/Gargoyles_Night_Striker.JPG

Anyone else that wants to join us jump in the Gargo-copter.
Lurker
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 6:28:59 pm EDT from 70.248.25.70

@ Rebel: Big Homer SImpsons moment on my side.

But I hold on to my signature!!

Or probably I'm just into Equus a bit...

@ Landon: Quick, to the Garg mobile, we can still catch them.

@ Gore: I say we call Matlock. He'll find the culprit. It's probably that evil Gavin MacLeod or George 'Goober' Lindsay.
Brook
I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 6:07:05 pm EDT from 84.191.198.120

Landon Thomas> Probably Power Rangers fans. *shakes fist*
Well, I certainly feel awkward.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
Algernon's comment about Norman Osborn: One of the neat things about Dark Reign is that it gives Osborn the chance to expand his horizons beyond tormenting a tweanty nine year old who still lives with his mom.
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 6:03:29 pm EDT from 71.115.231.114

Probably Power Rangers fans. *shakes fist*
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter feed]
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 5:56:42 pm EDT from 128.101.32.234

Hard to believe this fandom is considered a worthwhile target for hackers to launch DDOS attacks... especially while MICROSOFT's web site is still live.
Patrick - [<-- Gathering 2009]
"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 5:55:15 pm EDT from 173.88.144.38

Dammit! I should bring the ban hammer for that, Rebel. Mostly because I had to re-read it to make sure I really did read what I just read. Red? Readed? Messed up English language.
Gorebash - [gorebash at s8 dot org]
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 5:54:12 pm EDT from 70.22.191.109

GFW is back up. Rumor is someone was trying to DDoS it.
Gorebash - [gorebash at s8 dot org]
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 5:52:21 pm EDT from 70.22.191.109

Brook > I like your new signature. By the way, I love it when there are multiple horse cocks in my ass and an unkempt hobo is splashing a mixture of bacon grease and piss in my face.

Kidding, couldn't resist. ;)
Rebel
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 5:52:06 pm EDT from 75.65.27.129

Rebel> Of course, but I mention him because he was the first to point out the spoiler warning rule.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
Algernon's comment about Norman Osborn: One of the neat things about Dark Reign is that it gives Osborn the chance to expand his horizons beyond tormenting a tweanty nine year old who still lives with his mom.
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 5:50:05 pm EDT from 71.115.231.114

Antiyonder > I wasn't talking about Greg B. You are right, he was civil. Also, I wasn't necessarily talking about this particular instance either. It's just something that I see happening often here, and it's not necessary (the time a few weeks ago when Vinnie was posting fake rumors as a joke comes to mind).
Rebel
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 5:44:57 pm EDT from 75.65.27.129

Rebel - I agree and I think that everything you said can be accomplished with normal self-policing rather than moderation. It'll be easier with a phpBB system because the same arguments won't keep popping up at the top and rubbing in everyone's face. People can avoid threads they don't want to read.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter feed]
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 5:37:55 pm EDT from 128.101.32.234

Rebel> ( If someone does something you think is wrong (especially if they did so accidentally), then tell them so in a civil manner.)

I recall that Greg B was pretty civil the first time that spideyforever was making the mistake of posting spoilers.

(There is no need to resort to communicating with each other like a bunch of barbarians. I also have a problem with people "ganging up" on other users, UNLESS that user DELIBERATELY did something wrong. If they did something wrong accidentally or just made a careless mistake, I am very forgiving.)

He was told once to post spoiler warnings and refused to do so or even apologize for his mistake.

(The results may be the same but the intentions of the person who made the mistake is of utmost importance to me.)

Right, and again spideyforever was requested to post spoiler warnings and basically said to the effect that he doesn't have to and that a true fan would know the content of the spoilers anyway.

So he not only refused to improve on his mistake, but he:
1. Refused to apologize or take responsibility for his mistake.
2. Made an insult (A true Spider-Man fan would have known this anyway).
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
Algernon's comment about Norman Osborn: One of the neat things about Dark Reign is that it gives Osborn the chance to expand his horizons beyond tormenting a tweanty nine year old who still lives with his mom.
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 5:35:56 pm EDT from 71.115.231.114

I dislike registration and all the rhubarb that comes with a real message board. In my opinion a forum would see little use in it's splintering.
Btw, wasn't there a Gargoyles forum attached to S8 a few years ago? I believe to remember such a thing and that it saw very little use indeed.

I also do appreciate spoiler warnings, although I would read the spoiler anyway, which is the reason I completely avoided visiting the comment room (reading-wise) after the comics came out, but before I got them.

Otherwise the topic would have blown over some time ago, if one had been more restraint and not dredged it up and tried to "win the argument" again and again (I'm most certainly not faultless as far as such behaviour is concerned, 'though in this case I tried to stay quite). Sometimes ignoring helps best.

And since we are in a enraged mode, could the dark font colors be banned?
Most of the time they are absolutely unreadable without highlighting and the other times just a terror on the eyes and inconsiderate of fellow readers.
Anonymouse
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 5:35:18 pm EDT from 88.130.167.74

@ Rebel: See my sig... there...
Brook
I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 5:29:03 pm EDT from 84.191.198.120

I have no problem with swearing but I have a serious problem with bullying, threats, and blatant rudeness in general. We are all adults here and there is no reason we can't be perfectly civil to each other. If someone does something you think is wrong (especially if they did so accidentally), then tell them so in a civil manner. There is no need to resort to communicating with each other like a bunch of barbarians. I also have a problem with people "ganging up" on other users, UNLESS that user DELIBERATELY did something wrong. If they did something wrong accidentally or just made a careless mistake, I am very forgiving. The results may be the same but the intentions of the person who made the mistake is of utmost importance to me.
Rebel
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 5:22:49 pm EDT from 75.65.27.129

Totally Agree with Landon, and his idea. :)

I think thread-specific posting would also lessen the fighting, bullying and "spoiling" to a minimum, for the reasons he's given.
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 5:19:07 pm EDT from 84.191.198.120

I've got an even older spoiler for you: Clark Kent is Superman.

I've been posting here late 1996 or early 1997. The conversation didn't used to be as contentious, and there wasn't nearly as much trollish behavior back then, either. Or at least that's how I remember it. Perhaps my tolerance for it has simply diminished in my old age.

I seriously do not believe that any internet message board is stopping anyone from going to a convention, though. That's just one of many convenient excuses.
Patrick - [<-- Gathering 2009]
"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 5:18:48 pm EDT from 173.88.144.38

Actually, if we went to a phpBB-style system, we might not need much moderation at all. Content-less posts, like spam, could be deleted of course (but might be avoided all together with a good captcha). For spoilers, just designate a spoiler thread or add 'SPOILERS' to the thread name when one appears. I'm not sure any other moderation is needed, except for child porn, of course. I have no problem with bullying, threats, or swears. We're not Disney--I don't think an all-ages or nanny mentality is needed.

To answer your question Gore: no one should be banned based on this week's posts. I would have forcibly added **SPOILERS** before and after the content of some of spideyforever's posts. If that isn't technically possible, then leave everything as is, in my opinion.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter feed]
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 5:11:41 pm EDT from 128.101.32.234

@ Gore: I'm against banning. Seriously. It should, if used, apply to spammers alone.

Banning is easily misused and way too draconic on normal posters.
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 5:10:51 pm EDT from 84.191.198.120

And so that you don't have to call people out in public, e-mail it all to me if you prefer. In fact, I invite anyone/everyone to join in this exercise. I'm curious what rules people feel should be in place and who should be banned.

And when you start writing

#1) No spoilers without a warning

I want you to define a spoiler. For example, if I mention Puck is Owen, is that a spoiler? This was revealed YEARS ago, but it's a spoiler to any newcomer to the show. What if I said "Boy, when Norman did X and then did Y as Green Goblin, he sure did contradict himself." Is that a spoiler? Norman was outted as the Green Goblin in the 1960s. That's 50 years ago! Is that a spoiler?
Gorebash - [gorebash at s8 dot org]
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 5:07:34 pm EDT from 207.206.236.230

AT: an exercise. define a list of rules for the CR that you feel, if one is broken, should result in a ban. and then apply them to the CR for this week and tell me who, under your rule set, would be banned.
Gorebash
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 5:02:46 pm EDT from 207.206.236.230

if NAME in ('Brook', 'spideyforever') then 'Posting failed. Please try again later.'

Gorebash> Seriously, I don't know. A lot of people are upset. I'm one of them. A solution will hopefully fix this issue from happening again.
Anthony Tini
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 4:57:44 pm EDT from 159.240.11.254

@ Gore: I should laugh, but yeah, you're right, this is rather a problem...

We should do a list or something!

I remember from that huge forum I'm on, moderators were asked to post a list of body parts which are forbidden to be shown on avatars (some users used bare female breasts in their avatars), and the guys posted this really long list with latin and greek terms for reproductive organs. :)

We should probably assign 3 ods, and they could, like, post the guidlines, and we'd agree or disagree with them..? This way, they could be altered without anybody greeing to something that feels like censorship to them...?

Kinda like the ASK GREG guidlines?
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 4:56:02 pm EDT from 84.191.198.120

@ Gore: Just now got your post on my PC... hurm...

What about shared moderation and guidelines??

That would lessen the subjective level a bit.
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 4:51:37 pm EDT from 84.191.198.120

Brook: "heavy swearing occurs (a sh!t here and there is OK, 4 f words next to each other are not)"

Ahh! You've already fallen into the trap. A "few" to me is about 20. A "few" to you is 3 or 4. Is "pissed" a swear? Is "crap" a swear? It's all subjective to the individual.

Is it called Soda, Pop, or Coke?

Dig?
Gorebash
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 4:51:00 pm EDT from 207.206.236.230

The elephant in the room is that this is a GARGOYLES comment room, but it's become a GREG WEISMAN'S WORK comment room.

So what about a proper forum system, like phpBB (http://demo.phpopen.net/phpbb/)? You create an account. You can have avatars and signatures and all that stuff you find on every other forum. We could have separate forums for Gargoyles, Spider-Man, and Ask Greg (and even more sections if deemed necessary). You'll get threaded discussions. No more weekly wiping of the CR. No more hassle with some clunky archives page, you'll have a nice and straightforward "SEARCH" button.

And we can start banning accounts.

What does everyone think of that?
Gorebash
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 4:48:49 pm EDT from 207.206.236.230

I think we should agree to Moderation with a number of 2 or 3 moderators, and a possible editing function for posters themselves. This way, if somebody forgets to put a spoiler warning on something, he can just drop one seconds or mintes later.

If the CR is moderated, I personally would be for editing if:

- heavy swearing occurs (a sh!t here and there is OK, 4 f words next to each other are not)
- bullying or threats occur (hopefully no more)
- Spoilers or Spamming occurs (Spoilers like "HEY GUYS, THE FOURTH TWILIGHT MOVIE ENDS WITH..." without a spoiler tag)

Anything else would be too much.

Considering the heavyness of it, editing or deleting of the post should be OK. :)
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 4:42:49 pm EDT from 84.191.198.120

Moderation is subjective. And it's abused. There would never be "edits" you either have the post deleted entirely and ban the user or you don't do anything. And, to be perfectly honest, evading moderation/banning is either very trivial or you throw the baby out with the bathwater.

For example, many ISPs (like AOL) put their users behind a single proxy server. If one user acts up and I ban that IP, I've just banned the whole of that ISP. Could you imagine banning all of AOL?

Furthermore some ISPs give you a random IP address when you log in. So an IP ban won't work because they just relog and they've got a new IP. Or they go find one of the millions of incorrectly configured proxy servers out there and they post through that.

Evading IP bans is trivial.

So then a user-based system. A user logs in, then you ban that account. Well you simply create a new hotmail,yahoo,gmail,etc. e-mail account and you can then create a new forum account in a matter of seconds.

So that won't work either.

So then what?
Gorebash
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 4:37:59 pm EDT from 207.206.236.230

The trouble with having moderation is having someone available to do it.
I'm all for that idea myself-if only to keep the spamming and bickering under control. I love this place-but some people need to learn how to respect how to use it. One can have a discussion, disagree, Leave spoilers(as long as you leave a spoiler warning first-it's common courtesy.)
We used to have a set of rules for commenting in here. Although it's tough to have people read 'em, at least if their post is removed or edited-the rules are written in "Stone" so one can point to them as a reason behind the changes.

Just my 2 Canadian cents.
Wingless
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 4:17:11 pm EDT from 99.245.254.123

Can we attempt moderation first? Lurker is right: like it or not, this site is the public face of Gargoyles. That's not a bad thing either. Fans control the content and presentation and since the new updates, it's the best-looking site of the bunch. It's not a bad idea to have a safe place for fans, new and old, to discuss Gargoyles and other Weisman projects.

So what are the arguments against moderation, along as it's clear when edits occur?
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter feed]
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 3:59:39 pm EDT from 128.101.32.234

@ Lurker: I am totally with that Video. :D
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 3:57:31 pm EDT from 84.191.198.120

Lurker: Should the comment room go away permanently?
Gorebash
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 3:52:09 pm EDT from 207.206.236.230

I guess I should clarify my statement a bit. I think this is generally accepted as THE Gargoyles commment room. I say that only because it is on the same site that Greg answers questions and people who were fans and are on a nostalgia trip may not care or know enough about to fandom to look at/for other sites. SO, with the fights happening here so often, it may turn them off. I have been lurking for quite a while, even before spidey came here, so I am familiar with his immaturity, and I have seen the outbreaks happen frequently. I have also seen them get so out of hand that Big Papa Weisman has to put some people in timeout.

I understand forums are meant for debates but all against one doesn't constitute a debate. All against one even after an apology has been issued doesnt constitute a debate. I know spidey never really apologized, Im speaking in general terms.

The only other thing keeping me from attending a con would be money and thats not too big of an issue. It's mainly the stigma here. For me its "These people attend the cons, I dont want to be around these people." Now, I know not everyone here attends the cons but thats what it may seem like for a new person to the forum. The animosity here may turn them off.

Lonerider> " And just because Spidey is considered 'new', doesn't mean that if someone else had done the same thing, they wouldn't have been the person being yelled at." I gather this is made in response to my comment "with a new person on the receiving end of a public ramming" Allow me to clear this up a bit. When I said "a new person" I didn't mean new as in noob, I meant as in a different person from the week before, whether it be a regular or a noob.

BUT I think the moral of my post may have been missed. I wasn't trying to say you guys are turning me off, although you are. That doesnt matter because the new material keeps me coming back. The point of my post is that we may be turning off people to the cons which can hinder/hurt the future of the series, which we really dont need. It was an attempt to get people to move on, not defend their actions.

Here you go everyone, I dont know how to make a hyperlink but everyone here needs to see this. It is less than 1 minute long.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=127BTS1lKL4
Lurker
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 3:26:51 pm EDT from 70.248.25.70

Considering Shari might be the Princess Sheherazade (or how she is pronounced), is there a possibillity for Hacker to be somebody "famous" too?
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 3:11:47 pm EDT from 84.191.198.120

Bluestone and Hacker's FBI Specialty> Greg's response could mean any number of things:

- Greg hasn't decided on that yet or hasn't thought about it. (Hey, it could happen.)
- Greg has an idea, but wants to consider it more and maybe do some research before he says anything definitive.
- Greg knows the answer, but doesn't want to reveal any more than he already has, just so there are some secrets still left for us to discover.
- Greg knows the answer, but won't say because it will be important in an upcoming story.

It's really hard to say which one it might be, as I think most of them are equally possible. I guess we'll just have to wait on it.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 3:01:28 pm EDT from 146.115.115.33

@ Landon: I dunno if this is a thing that is generally ruled out - but what if Hacker is even deeper into the Illuminati than shown by now?

The only indication of the numeric system to be true, is the number you say, right?

What if an actual higher number, like, yeah, say #1, does actually pose as a lower number?

I bring this up because Hacker is, at least to me, disturbingly close to "the action". He might be one of the more frequent runners of the Illuminati of NY, but somehow, he's just too deep in there.

Think of it, he's in the GARGS-taskforce. He's around Castaway, Xanatos and Bluestone.

He's the one who keeps the entire Garg-related activity of the Illuminati going - except for Shari, who's now Thailogs, uh... what exactly is she, an "informant"?

But aside from Shari, Hacker is really really close to the action, and seems to have far more importance to the going ons of the Illuminati in the comics than we have realised by now.

Could be he's just a "runner", but it also could be he's far more into things than we've realised by now...
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 1:44:10 pm EDT from 84.191.198.120

Jennifer> "We've found other places to talk about Gargoyles and all it's offshoots."

If what you speak of is a public place, I'd be interested in having a look (link please?). If it's not, I understand. ^..^
Kerry (Kth) Boyd
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 1:35:46 pm EDT from 71.56.36.35

I had a big long post planned, but to hell with it, I'm out.
Greg Bishansky - [<----- Gathering 2009]
DING DONG THE WITCH IS DEAD!!!!
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 1:31:26 pm EDT from 75.50.154.20

This is pretty OT, so just skip it if it doesn't interrest/concern you. ;)

@ Crzy: Depends on if you misunderstood something I said or not, what can happen easily.

I assure you, I am no troll and in no way a bigot, racist or something like that. I don't want to talk you down, nor do I want to offend you.

If there was a misunderstanding, I'm glad to hear it, to assure a better clima. I hold no grudges against anybody, and am Ok with clearing things up, if you are (Landon confused a post of mine earlier on, when I wrote that a dealing with sexuality in the Gargs comics would be hard to stomach and quite a big move into adult territory, he confused it with me meaning Lex sexuality would be hard to stomach - we cleared that and I've had no problem with it).

I misunderstood in the beginning that what the post was about was actually a major spoiler. I thought it to be a rather small and obvious thing. I understood it now, and think he should have posted a spoilerwarning, but by the time I realised this, I found the clima in here a bt... well, agressive, the concept of agression vs. people behaving bad on internet forums very disturbing.

I mean, sure, Trolls arise, but why do we have to chastise or "hunt them out" or something?

I mean, I'm on Gores side, why do we not just... ignore it? Cause frankly, these things happen all the time. It is not OK - but look at other places. These things happen all the time, and going at people with forks for it is a bit wrong. I can see why this could have been misunderstood, but please, look at it from a broader pov, and not just from this CR.

If you people wish to damn Spidey for what he did - fine, I guess I also cannot do a lot about it. But from a broader pov, I find it disturbing at how many newbies have been treated like trolls the last few months. I can understand it to that point that many trolls have been around on here, but still, I find it a bist disturbing.

@ Gore: Say, is it actually possibly to have an EDIT-function for the CR?
I ask because most of what has arisen fights on here was due to posts that could have been re-edited (with Spoiler Warnings) or delted easily (well, I guess by you/admins then, if the posts are agressive or show a really idiotic behaviour).

That would be a huge step forward, probably...
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 1:26:19 pm EDT from 84.191.198.120

Spidey: Maybe if you'd been nicer from the start, these discussions wouldn't happen. Obviously, nobody's perfect, but that doesn't give you the right to say whatever you want in a public forum. If you make a mistake, you admit it, you learn from it, and you move on. Otherwise, you're going to get called on it.

None of us are perfect, but that doesn't mean we don't strive for perfection. Think about it.

Lurker: Actually, we're usually very nice to newcomers. I know there are a few here that can vouch for that. And we do have great debates here from time to time. It's usually very nice and quiet in here. It's just that the bad discussions are the loudest. But we would've reacted the same way if a regular had spoiled season two of Spider-Man. We probably wouldn't have reacted as strongly if Spidey had made a good first impression. But as you can see from Algernon's post, he did not.

Brook: A word of advice... don't talk down to Jen. ;)

I understand that you were trying to defend somebody whom you believed was being ganged up on. That's a noble thing to do. Even criminals are protected from angry mobs. But I think you went about it the wrong way. You came across as somebody who was defending Spidey because spoilers aren't big deal, not because you believed it was the right thing to do. You said so yourself that people on IMDB spoiled you and so, it was okay for Spidey to spoil us. Maybe that wasn't your intent, but that's how you came across, and that's why people got mad at you. I don't believe you owe us an apology, but I do believe you should make sure your intentions are well-known next time.

And, on a lighter note...

Algernon: You made me laugh SO hard with that last part of your post!
D. Taina - [demona3 at hotmail dot com]
"The story is told -- though who can say if it be true..." -Shari
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 1:13:38 pm EDT from 74.213.121.140

Sorry gang, but this room became the ass end of this fandom years ago. There's no moderation and no one to make sure anyone follows any rules. I've bit my tongue so long it's bleeding. Those of us who have been here for a decade or so have pretty much given up on this place. We've found other places to talk about Gargoyles and all it's offshoots. Places where we don't have to tolerate the trolls. The "Stick your fingers in your ears and pretend it's not happening" thing just gets old after awhile.

Brook - I have stomached all your posts and refuse to do so anymore. Your logic is flawed and you constantly contradict yourself because you think it makes you look superior. Under your own skewed "Rules" you have chastised me in the same way you tell me not to chastise others. Practice what you preach or understand yourself for the hypocrite you are. By YOUR OWN RULES you should ignore me. ... I welcome you to do so. ... and I have every right to speak my mind just as much as you do. Again, hypocrite much?

Roy - You don't KNOW me! ;) j/k. I promise not to throw any chairs... this week. But we MIGHT have midgets fighting later!

Landon Thomas - Remind me to kiss you someday. HEY BROOK! Read Landon's post again. Memorize it! :P

Lurker - This comment room does not a fandom make. I firmly believe the bickering here has everything to do with the complete lack of moderators. Hell, I would have banned ME by now. You sure you don't have another reason for not wanting to attend a convention? Because I think you might have something more holding you back than this one simple little web page.
Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson
"Today, we were kidnapped by hill folk never to be seen again. It was the best day ever." -- Jayne, Firefly
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 1:06:50 pm EDT from 76.174.154.162

So, IS anyone else having trouble with the GFW?

I haven't been able to access the site in almost a day now...
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 12:58:23 pm EDT from 99.22.67.227

Lurker> Don't be too discouraged, they're just angry right now. Just because they get mad from time to time doesn't mean that they aren't nice people, it just means they're normal. Everyone gets angry. And just because Spidey is considered 'new', doesn't mean that if someone else had done the same thing, they wouldn't have been the person being yelled at. Of course, that other person probably would've apologized by now, but, still, the reaction would've been the same. No one is treated any different. Spidey just so happened to get the most of it, because he didn't exactly make a great first impression in the first place, as Algeron noted.
Also, this is a forum. There's supposed to be disagreements, there's supposed to be debates. That's what you do in forums: you discuss.
lonerider26 - [lonerider26 at gmail dot com]
"I stand here, I cannot do otherwise."~Martin Luther
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 12:35:43 pm EDT from 71.239.117.67

Lurker> Actually, most of the time, we mostly try to be more civil then this.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 12:33:55 pm EDT from 99.22.67.227

HAHAHA! No one will ever learn that *I* am the real troll! It's all part of the plan. (pinky to mouth)

Jack - With Hacker's direct involvement in the Gargoyles Taskforce, we're probably going to learn a lot about their past and current relationship. There could be a past case coming back to haunt them or it could just be backstory Greg plans to fill in later and he doesn't want to tip his hand. But with that response, it's a good bet that Greg has a story he wants to tell that's related.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter feed]
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 12:32:13 pm EDT from 128.101.32.234

WHOA. Bad time to come in here, but....

spidey> Greg, as well as everyone else in here, know that you aren't perfect. No one here expects you to be perfect. I just don't think you get it. You did something wrong. That's why everyone is mad at you.
Though we can't MAKE you say an apology, one would be greatly appreciated. But fueling the fire even more with all capitalized letters is doing nothing to help you, dude.
lonerider26 - [lonerider26 at gmail dot com]
"I stand here, I cannot do otherwise."~Martin Luther
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 12:26:10 pm EDT from 71.239.117.67

I have to side with Greg B. on this. since he first entered this comment room Spideyforever has shown nothing but contempt for everyone here. He whines like an immature child when no one responds to his posts, and when we do respond he starts hurls abuse and tells us to shut up. Heck just look at one of his very first posts...

"Fuck all you Venom and Carnage haters!!!!!!!!! I don't give a damn what comic age you grew up in!!!!!!!!!! Venom and Carnage are some of the most famous Spider-Man villains today along with all the other villains. They are also some of the biggest threats to Spidey because they know his secret idenity. Alot of fans want Carnage back in the comics and want to see him on the big screen. What you dumbasses don't get is a lot grew up with them so if you don't like them then just keep your unnecessary, unwanted, and way too big mouth shut."

First he tells to fuck ourselves, calls us dumbasses then tells us to shut the hell up. If this is how Spideyforever normally tries to ingratiate himself with new people then I'd hate to see him try to flirt with a woman...

SF: Attention you fat ugly skank, you'r a stupid retard and no one cares what you think, so just SHUT YOUR GODDAMN PIEHOLE!!!

...

So... you doing anything Friday night?
Algernon
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 12:23:56 pm EDT from 149.157.1.180

Kudos to those that try to move on to a friendlier conversation.

I figure I may get some of the heat for this but I think this must be said for people to realize what all this petty arguing is doing. Others have but they are regulars and maybe, since they are regulars, their comments arent being received as well.

I have been to 1 Gathering before. I enjoyed it. That was before I discovered the comment room.

Now, being a lurker and seeing the same quarrel happen week in, week out, with a new person on the receiving end of a public ramming, I am losing interest in attending another con.

If these are the people that attend the cons, those that endlessly draw on silly arguements, I dont want to meet them.

Im not arguing for who is wrong and who is right. Im just saying, more people are entering this room than anyone realizes, and when they see all the bickering among "the regulars" EVERY SINGLE WEEK its no wonder why the fandom isn't bigger.
Lurker
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 12:21:25 pm EDT from 70.248.25.70

Greg B.> FIRST OF ALL STOP BRINGING UP THE PAST. SECOND OF ALL WHEN DID I SAY I WAS RIGHT TO POST THAT SPOILER? I'M NOT THE ONE MAKING THREATS BECAUSE OF A SPOILER. JUST LEAVE ME IF YOU HAVE NOTHING NICE TO SAY. YOU TOO HARVESTER. NOBODY'S PERFECT SHEESH.
spideyforever
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 12:05:02 pm EDT from 208.108.81.37

Bishansky: You're being a bully and way overreacting and your post contributed nothing but more hate and fuel for the fire. Brook doesn't owe anyone an apology.

Orange either genuinely doesn't understand what we're about on or is an intentional troll. In either case arguing about it will not fix the problem. As I said before, simply ignore orange text if you're worried about spoilers.

That's it, move on. There's absolutely nothing more to gain from talking about this except pissing people off.
Gorebash
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 12:01:40 pm EDT from 207.206.236.230

Here's a post I'm probably going to regret...

Brook> Stop talking down to Jen. I am warning you right now. She is smarter than you. She is tougher than you. And trust me, the whole high horse thing you have going about how morally superior and enlightened you are is not going to work on her. She sees right through stuff like that.

You defended a troll. She rightly called you on it. The whole room rightly called you on it. You were wrong. She wasn't wrong. I wasn't wrong. Tony wasn't wrong. You were wrong. Spideyforever was massively wrong... and sadly, he still doesn't seem to get it, or he just doesn't care.

So, save yourself a world of hurt. Admit you were wrong, stop celebrating the actions of a troll and telling others to just get over it because others have spoiled stuff like this before.

And your whole "these things happen, get over it" spiel. Well, people get robbed, cheated, even killed all the time. We, as a society, rightly "gang up" on criminals and others who break the social contract. Or, are you saying that we, as a society, should not do that?

Yes, I realize there is a huge difference between the above and posting a major spoiler. But, still, it's a very similar blame the victim/protect the criminal mentality you have going there.

You did wrong. Suck it up and sincerely apologize. Because Spideyforever is clearly not going to. Hell, the guy once compared people hating his favorite comic book villain to members of the Ku Klux Klan, and then dared people to call him the N-word. And you're wasting your time defending that? By the way, it's a good thing I am not a moderator of this board, because Spideyforever would have been out of here as soon as he made that comment.

The CR is not the angry mob here. You're not defending a victim. You're defending "a criminal." And I don't mean in a "we're not sure if he actually did this, so I'll be his Public Defender" manner. You're defending a guy who, in broad daylight stepped into the town square and in front of thousands of eyewitnesses shouted his name and fired a tommy gun into the crowd.
Greg Bishansky - [<----- Gathering 2009]
"Genetic engineering helps us correct God's horrible mistakes... like German people." - Mr. Garrison
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 11:48:49 am EDT from 76.95.180.59

Jack> That's very likely. Greg typically only refuses to answer when that answer would have an impact on a current/future story.
Kerry (Kth) Boyd
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 11:44:26 am EDT from 71.56.36.35

Jack > All he said was, "I'm not answering that at this time." He says things like that all the time when someone asks him a question that he's not ready to reveal the answer to yet. Of course it's very possible that one of Matt's cases might come back to haunt him (anything is possible), but I don't think Greg's answer implies that such a thing will happen.
Rebel
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 11:43:58 am EDT from 198.175.205.251

So, I was intrigued by the answer to my question. This would almost imply that one of Matt's cases will come back to haunt him in some form. Would that be a correct assumption, you think?
Jack-Pumpkinhead - [jtjgundam at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 11:23:39 am EDT from 150.201.52.244

Of course we have a right to chastise spideyforever. We don't ban people from this comment room so the only defense we have against rule-breakers is by posting. You act like maintaining order is hopeless, but if something works, it works. We've had trolls before and they rarely hang around for long. Ironically, by continuing to defend spideyforever, you're drawing this uncivilized conversation out longer than anyone.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter feed]
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 10:57:44 am EDT from 128.101.32.234

*comes in to ask if anyone else is having trouble accessing the GFW*

*sees all the animosity present.*

*walks back out*
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 10:48:23 am EDT from 99.22.67.227

XD

I just was tired of this...

Whenever people just start threatening somebody or get agressive or so, this post can be put bumped. :P

Anyways, I totally forgot about Tony D. He's by far the worst villain in the Garg universe, hands down. Essentially, all he is is a lame wannabe mobster crook who's hitting on Elisa and relies on firepower only.

In the continuation, I hope for a Falcone-like villain who's a REAL threat to Elisa and the police force, who both has the ressources and intlligence to be a good villain.
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 10:44:43 am EDT from 84.191.232.136

Oops, I thought this was the Gargoyles comment room. Looks like I walked into a Jerry Springer forum.
Roy
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 10:21:31 am EDT from 71.84.197.71

@ Litwolf: Ain't that the Frog PRINCE?? ;P Frog Princess would give it a hillarious twist.

I might add, there is a HILLARIOUS version of the Frog Prince that is I guess polish or russian. The Frog Prince sounds like Meatwad from ATHF. From my memory, this is also a film where, near the end, some thiefs appear in the woods, and when the master thief is blowing a horn, all of them come out of empty trees and stuff, INCLUDING a thief who is the SPITTING IMAGE OF HITLER!! (including his few spoken words)
When he appears, he bumps his head and the thief next to him laughs on him.
This is, BY FAR, the most hillarious, most out of context, most childish, most unexpected and yet most funny joke I have ever seen in any of these fairytale films.

So, I recommend everybody watching it. :)

@ Crzy: Well, I asume just like a few weeks ago, you have not yet read a bit of what I wrote and wrote this out of anger and disappointment.
Let me just say this: I do not defend people who like to hurt or spoil others, but I do not like people ganging up on others, people hurting or threatening others and people behaving like children whilst they should behave like adults.
I know how frstrating this must be for you as somebody who works on the show, but things like those happen. And we can do almost nothing to prevent it - neither in the internet, nor in real life, and directing our agression towards those people is wasted energy.
I wish, especially for something that much into creativity, you would understand that, and stop writing such things without without checking what people said - you wrote a month ago that I said that Dumbledore ain't gay and terefore I'm a homophobe, which is not really true, for I wrote that I had a discussion with my mother, who accused Rowling of authorial trespassing and, as an author herself, has an issue with it (NOT ith Dumbledores sexuality). Nothing about me being against it, nothing homophobic, yet you accused me of it ina childish and angry manner, that was totally out of context.

I can understand your frustration and anger. But don't you throw it at people. Especially not randomly.

You have voiced your disappointment and anger towards Spidey. But you also voiced that everybody had the right to "chastice" hum for what he did.

And even as the creator of the show he spoilt, you have no right to say something like this, for no huan being should.

As a plea for civilisated discussion in here, I hope that we can talk about things like these WITHOUT getting angry or accusing other people or directing our anger and frustration at them, even if something like this happens.

Remember: we are all adults, who love and/or do the same things.

If we come across somebody with a more childish behaviour and bad attitude in here, it is on us to deal with it or even ignore it - but not to throw our anger at said person.
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 9:13:33 am EDT from 84.191.232.136

Litwolf> I already mentioned that Keith David was playing Dr. Faciler several weeks ago...twice. Glad to know I'm noticed.

Jennifer> I have not read Spidey's spoiler. I will not read Spidey's spoiler. When I get to see the SS-M episode in question (Don't know when that'll be, don't have cable, won't watch Youtube. Prolly on DVD) whatever episode it might be; I will still be fresh and new to it. I hope that is some sort of consolation...though, not perfect. I'm sorry. I will remember to spoiler alert.
Chip - [Sir_Griff723 at yahoo dot com]
You cannot make a cup of tea large enough, or a book long enough to suit me."--C.S. Lewis
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 3:49:58 am EDT from 68.164.6.57

Gargoyle ethnicity: So, I remember hearing once, that certain peoples developed "slender" eyes because of their environment. The shape of the eye helped prevent wind-blindness, or some such. So, maybe gargoyles developed it for the same reason.

This link might help: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicanthic_fold

I like the idea that gargoyles subconsciously affected their appearance as humans. That's nifty.

Ethnic distribution: I don't get it. I don't understand how gargoyles living on the same island look so different. Someone once proposed that someone cast a spell on the London Clan that affected their appearance (that may have been fan fiction), and I know people have offered the explanation that humans destroyed the most monstrous-looking gargoyles, leaving the animal-looking ones, thinking they were regular statues. Both those ideas make sense to me.

Least favourite villains: I never really cared for most Children of Oberon stories. I also don't particularly care about the Illuminati, but I agree that they've improved in the comics. I always get a little bored when we're watching Elisa's human villains. The mob-related stories never captured my attention.

Favourite villains: I love Thailog. Xanatos is an awe-inspiring man. I like Sevarius, but mostly as a lackey, like Demonskyre said. Demona, too, is an impressive villain. I look forward to Cold-steel's development.

Delilah: (POTENTIAL, BUT UNLIKELY, SPOILERS) In "Bash", did anyone else notice that Delilah was hanging out in Xanatos' lab? It looked like the same place that X and Demona revivified Cold-stone. I wonder if she has any mad-scientist-like tendencies. It also could just have been that she was looking to be alone.
Samuel - [AnglOfHellO at AOL dot com]
Now, now... Language.
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 2:28:07 am EDT from 68.55.57.46

Crzy>....well said.

Litwolf> Sweet! No way I'm missing that movie now! Now I just have to see Coraline....
lonerider26 - [lonerider26 at gmail dot com]
"I stand here, I cannot do otherwise."~Martin Luther
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 1:59:22 am EDT from 68.51.71.186

Wow... This was a bad time to be looking at the CR...

I guess I'll come back later...

*Walks out of the CR for a while*
The One Known As Mochi - [shogi dot keima dot 08 at gmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>T.T)> Tired...once again...
posted @ Fri, Mar 27, 2009 12:10:52 am EDT from 67.101.237.11

Gore - so the short bus wins the race again?

Anthony Tini - "I don't know who's worse? The jerk who posted the spoiler or the jerk defending him?" You are my new bestus best friend. Best quote of the comment room.

Brook - Woopie doo, you've been spoiled. Congrats. Thanks for wishing it upon others. Oh yeah, and I think you're a moron. Who am I to chastise? Someone who worked on the show and was looking forward to hearing people's UNSPOILED opinions on just this topic. So bite me.

Rebel - as if I really care that you think I'm out of line. It's obvious now that anyone here can be completely out of line and it doesn't really matter. Why should I bite my tongue in here when no one else has to?

Spideyforever - "but it's the price you pay for not being a Spidey fan" But is it the price they have to pay for WANTING to be a Spidey fan, diligently watching the show and YOU ruining a big part of it. Way to bring people into the fandom, TROLL. Gore's right, your line is cut and you just aren't listening to what you're being told. But then, I wrote you off as sane awhile ago. Oh yeah, Awakenings is a 5 parter, dude. You have to watch them ALL, not just the first one and last one to get the full story. Maybe try it when you've actually TAKEN your medication for the day? Just a suggestion. ... and remember, you're just a nutter to me, dude. A nut case and a troll... nothing more.

Harvester of Eyes - Careful, I don't think Spideyforever has all his gray matter fully functioning. It's my theory that he has a "CONDITION". ... should I put that behind a spoiler warning? I mean, after all, everyone here can TELL he has a thinking "condition". I mean, it's common knowledge to anyone who's read any of his posts. :P

... and that's it... I'm SO done here.
Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson - [<--- Blue Mug Productions - 18+ ONLY]
"None of you understand. I'm not locked up in here with you. You're locked up in here with me." - Rorshcach, THE WATCHMEN
posted @ Thu, Mar 26, 2009 10:59:25 pm EDT from 76.174.154.162

WHOA! Guys, listen to this! Keith David, the voice of our very own Goliath, is going to voice the villian in Disney's upcoming The Princess And The Frog (an adaptation of the Frog Princess fairytale)!!! He's going to SING! I dont know about you guys but this makes me super excited for this movie (I was already pretty excited to begin with ^_^)

I thank this DeviantArt Artist's journal for pointing this out to me: http://bri-chan.deviantart.com/journal/23876601/

Just had to share it with all of you fellow Gargoyle fans.
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Thu, Mar 26, 2009 10:24:10 pm EDT from 209.243.38.9

Othello: The show and Greg has implied that all 36 eggs made it to Avalon and survived into adulthood. It's been said on this site somehwere that there are three Beasts, Boudicca being one of them, the remaining two mates to each other. As for the females, Angela mentioned in "Turf" that she has fifteen rookery sisters, so they are all there too.

Heh, they were bound to make it alive with the conviction that Magus and Katherine had (Mary & Tom too).

The Out-of-story reason why we haven't seen them is that it's just hard to have 36 separate character models that may ultimately not be used.
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Thu, Mar 26, 2009 9:28:53 pm EDT from 157.242.221.88

I would surmise that Demona gave the Grimorum to Xanatos in exchange for his help in breaking Goliath's slumber.

Demona has on occasion dealt with humans as treacherous as David Xanatos.
Michael Ejercito - [mejercit at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Thu, Mar 26, 2009 9:24:08 pm EDT from 75.142.121.139

Did any of the 36 Gargoyle eggs not make it to Avalon?Because every time an episode with Avalon in it,there's only about sixteen gargoyles. Also where are all the Avalon female gargoyles and Gargoyle Beasts?
Othello
GargFan
posted @ Thu, Mar 26, 2009 9:06:43 pm EDT from 70.162.249.241

I forgot about the Bronx line. But then again, didn't he zap Bronx separately? I don't know, really. But when I read Greg's answer I took it at face value -- that if it wasn't for Elisa, Goliath would look like the others. I suppose it could be Elisa's perception but that doesn't make as much sense to me as Elisa's effect on Goliath's self-image.
Ed
posted @ Thu, Mar 26, 2009 5:26:01 pm EDT from 213.187.38.226

Landon > Well, he might have "picked" Bronx's form without picking the others' forms. Bronx isn't smart enough to pick for himself, though he is quite smart.

Also, I think there seem to be parallels between human ethnicity and gargoyle ethnicity. Why else should all the Asian gargoyles we've seen have black hair and slender eyes? It doesn't really make sense to me that the Asian gargoyles would share this in common with the asian humans, but there must be something else at work here that I haven't considered.
Rebel
posted @ Thu, Mar 26, 2009 5:24:11 pm EDT from 75.65.27.129

Algernon> I found your wording to be quite funny. Definitely my comment room signature.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
Algernon's comment about Norman Osborn: One of the neat things about Dark Reign is that it gives Osborn the chance to expand his horizons beyond tormenting a tweanty nine year old who still lives with his mom.
posted @ Thu, Mar 26, 2009 5:21:54 pm EDT from 71.115.231.114

Ed - "Just because they shared geography with humans, doesn't mean they shared ethnicity."

True, but you have to admit that geography still plays an important role in determining what a gargoyle looks like. There are still geographical bounds to ancestry, as noted by Griff's "you look like Scottish stock" comment. But you're right that gargoyle ancestry must not follow standard continent-based racial groups like humans since the London and Wyvern clans share an island.

I never considered that the Manhattan Clan chose their own human forms subconsciously. That makes sense. Do you think that's what Greg was trying to say? There's still no evidence that Puck didn't explicitly choose what each human-form gargoyle would look like. Remember: "I should have picked a Chihuahua."
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter feed]
posted @ Thu, Mar 26, 2009 4:56:00 pm EDT from 128.101.32.234

Landon: I thought it was quite an interesting answer, although I didn't remember the previous discussion you quoted. I read it as an in-canon explanation.

I don't think there can be any real science to Puck's transformations. Just because they shared geography with humans, doesn't mean they shared ethnicity. Patterns of gargoyle ethnicity might have been very different. For one thing, there's a very clear differentiation between the English and Scottish gargoyles despite there being no real equivalent in humans. And is Puck really likely to have devised some kind of scientific logic while casting a spell as a prank? It's not really his style.

I would think that the spell would transpose the gargoyles to forms which they'd most readily recognise as 'theirs', as commonplace, as comfortable -- i.e. reflections of the kind of humans they feel closest to. For most of them, that means the kind of forms seen in tenth century Scotland. For Goliath, who is obviously attracted to Elisa, the suggestion to me is that he subconsciously sees himself as a little closer to her ethnicity.

(Note also that Elisa's form is much closer to the "Scottish stock" than any of the other international clans, except perhaps the Japenese one. We don't have a precedent for Nigerian or Native American gargoyles but assuming Raven had actual models in mind for his phantoms, Elisa doesn't resemble those a jot. Nor does she show any features that suggest her heritage. She's coloured like Hudson, who is probably Goliath's closest confidante.)
Ed
posted @ Thu, Mar 26, 2009 4:30:52 pm EDT from 213.187.38.226

Hmmm, I'm a little confused by Greg's answer to my question. I knew from http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=1476 that a 2nd reason Greg made human Goliath have darker skin was to more closely match Elisa. Is Greg just reiterating that answer? Because it's still an out-of-canon reason. Or is he implying that Puck purposely made Goliath's human skin match Elisa's in order to play Cupid? I expected "Puck's magic" to be the answer when I asked the question, but it's not exactly clear.

In all honesty, I wanted to ask if we could extrapolate Goliath's darker skin to mean that he has a more recent non-Scottish ancestry than the rest of the Wyvern Clan. Human viewers might not notice this racial difference until the entire clan is converted to humans and their genes are more plainly visible to non-Gargoyle eyes. But I thought that would seem like an idea masquerading as a question, so I simplified it.

But anyway, Greg doesn't seem to think it's significant, so I'll drop it.

Side note: you'll notice that the only other Wyvern gargoyles portrayed by African-American voice actors are Othello, Desdemona, and their *biological* son Gabriel. Brigette Bako isn't biracial, but whatever. I know I'm seeing patterns that don't exist.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter feed]
posted @ Thu, Mar 26, 2009 3:25:06 pm EDT from 128.101.32.234

Sorry, never mind, shouldn't have made that post.

From now on, I'm just going to try to ignore.
Greg Bishansky - [<----- Gathering 2009]
If I put one leg in front of the other, does it make me go forward?
posted @ Thu, Mar 26, 2009 1:21:07 pm EDT from 75.50.154.20

Spideyforever> << This is a reverse of what me and all the angry people who didn't know a lot about Spider-Man.>>

You still don't get it, do you? That's not why people are mad at you. Scroll down and read Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson's post again. She worked on the show.
Greg Bishansky - [<----- Gathering 2009]
If I put one leg in front of the other, does it make me go forward?
posted @ Thu, Mar 26, 2009 1:18:29 pm EDT from 75.50.154.20

I would say David is the better scheamer. While Norman and Lex are both manipulaters of the higest order, they both have a nasty habit of letting their egos and personal grudges cloud their judgment. Xanatos by contrast is able to maintain a cool detachment and clear head that lets keep an eye on the big picture.

Look at all the time, effort and resources Luthor and Osborn have wasted on failed kill Superman/screw with Peter's head scheames over the years.

One of the neat things about Dark Reign is that it gives Osborn the chance to expand his horizons beyond tormenting a tweanty nine year old who still lives with his mom.
Algernon
posted @ Thu, Mar 26, 2009 1:16:54 pm EDT from 149.157.1.180

Muppet Show #1 and Incredibles #1 both sell out very quickly: http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=20567

Of course, Gargoyles #1 sold out as well, so we'll see how well they do down the pike. The BOOM! and SLG publishing deals with Disney aren't really comparable since Muppets & Pixar are more well known than Alice in Wonderland, Tron, Haunted Mansion, & Gargoyles. BOOM!'s stuff is accordingly getting tons more press. And BOOM! is arguably aiming for a younger audience than SLG. Let's hope this doesn't adversely affect Disney's licensing price and expectations.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter feed]
posted @ Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:40:46 pm EDT from 128.101.32.234

@ Apidey: True that. But I find it apelling to see how this little crybaby became the founder of the "league of Hunters" or however to call it, leading to the Quarrymen and the 3 Hunters to happen.

Also, I'd say Doc. Hurt is the biggest Mastermind. ;)
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:23:15 pm EDT from 84.191.192.93

Sorry about the triple post, but who do you think is the biggest mastermind Xanatos, Norman Osborn, or Lex Luthor?
spideyforever
posted @ Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:17:12 pm EDT from 208.108.81.37

Brook> I think The Hunter going after Demona because she damaged his face is a little lame. I mean Demona didn't kill his family or gorlfriend and then scar him just scratched him.
spideyforever
posted @ Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:14:52 pm EDT from 208.108.81.37

If you read my comment I figured Xanatos moved it. I remember now so I didn't miss it I just forgot about it which is easy considering I didn't see as much as Gargoyles as you guys.

You know a lot about Gargoyles I know a lot about Spider-Man. It's easy for someone who doesn't know a lot about Gargoyles to not know or forget something about it even if it is Gargoyles 101. This is a reverse of what me and all the angry people who didn't know a lot about Spider-Man.
spideyforever
posted @ Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:09:02 pm EDT from 208.108.81.37

*** SPIDEY SPOILERS ***

"Denique diatem efficacem inveni! = I have finally found an effective diet!"

LOL. I had no idea that Greg made the lines Mysterio said silly. I'm very happy he translated them but I'm kinda sad. I wish they were more badass quotes and less silly, but either way, they are/were very entertaining.
Anthony Tini
posted @ Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:36:40 am EDT from 159.240.11.254

I think Xanatos wouldn't lie unless lying helps further his interests. If telling the truth would accomplish just as much as a lie in a particular situation, why lie? It just means you have more to remember and somebody might poke holes in your story one day.
Rebel
posted @ Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:01:41 am EDT from 198.175.205.251

Demonskrye > Yeah, I guess he could be telling the truth. I was just going off was GargWiki said.

There are a lot of possibilities. Brooklyn asks Owen/Puck to arrange the meeting between Demona and Xanatos, right? Perhaps Brooklyn told Puck the terms of the spell who told Demona and Xanatos. Perhaps Xanatos gave the Grimorum to Demona and she, being quite the little spellcaster, found the spell in its pages and then they came up with a plan to break the spell. Perhaps the Magus did write down the story in the Grimorum and they broke it that way.

Any number of things could have happened. We wont know the truth until TimeDancer is released and, either way, this is such a small detail in a huge story that I personally dont really care how they knew the spell was broken. The point is that it was broken and the gargoyles were freed to star in their very own cartoon show :P
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Thu, Mar 26, 2009 10:57:46 am EDT from 209.243.38.9

Litwolf> If you include the canon-in-training, though, I think there's more to suggest that the Grimorum does include an account of the Wyvern Massacre and its aftermath. We know that Mary and Finella have the Grimorum and that at least part of the purpose of Brooklyn's first two stops on his timedancing adventure is to pick up the two women and the book and deliver them all to the 1970s so the Grimorum can find its way to Xanatos. My understanding was that this was ultimately to ensure that Xanatos knew about Castle Wyvern, the sleeping gargoyles, and the terms of the spell cast on them. Otherwise, where would he get that information? Demona really had no way of figuring it out on her own. The Wyvern clan survivors obviously can't tell anyone. Katharine, Tom, and the Magus left for Avalon not long after the spell was cast and presumably didn't tell anyone else about it. The only other possibility is that Mary knew about the spell and its terms and repeated that information to Xanatos. But if that were the case, why would Xanatos tell the gargoyles that he'd read their story in the Grimorum? Why would it be any less advantageous for him to say "The woman I bought the Grimorum from told me the legend of Castle Wyvern"?

I made the mistake while watching the show for the first time of refusing to believe anything Xanatos said pretty much right up until the end of "The Gathering." While he's certainly not a trustworthy person, you do have to consider whether lying is really advantageous to him in a given situation.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Thu, Mar 26, 2009 10:19:30 am EDT from 146.115.115.33

Phoeician >

"Othello: There's really no way of knowing. In fact, there's enough reason to believe that the Magus recording the events of the Wyvern Massacre was nothing more than further B.S. from Xanatos's little speech to get the gargoyles into his trust."

I always figured the same thing. That it was simply a ruse on Xanatos' part. But it doesnt really matter one way or the other. The point is Xanatos knew and used the knowledge to free the gargoyles from their curse and get the whole series started.
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Thu, Mar 26, 2009 9:47:18 am EDT from 209.243.38.9

Othello: An approved question means a moderator has previewed it and decided it meets the criteria set under the list of guidelines on the introduction page. These guidelines are there to help protect Greg from any legal issues regarding "original ideas" and to help streamline the process.
Gorebash
posted @ Thu, Mar 26, 2009 8:39:33 am EDT from 207.206.236.230

Villains> Of the more major ones, I think Sevarius hasn't really clicked for me yet. I think he's fine as a secondary antagonist, doing jobs for somebody else, but I'm not really fond of him as a solo villain. It's not that I don't find him capable or sufficiently lacking in morals; this is a guy who experiments on children. And Tim Curry does an excellent job voicing him. I just feel like in a series that has so many deep and nuanced villains, Sevarius kind of stands out as being your typical mad scientist, except for the fact that he's specifically a geneticist rather than a generic all-purpose "scientist." Thailog works for me as someone who enjoys screwing with people, partly because it's balanced out by him being very smart and plan oriented first. But I think Sevarius needs something more to make him really interesting and unique. Same goes for Wolf.

City of Stone> It's really tough for me to choose which part of the story was more compelling for me. Learning Demona and Macbeth's backstory was pretty amazing after having it teased way back in season one. Plus, my English class was reading "Macbeth" right around that time and our wonderful teacher was also teaching us about the actual history which the play is loosely based on and the show draws heavily from, so it was doubly exciting. But the city's population turned to stone by night, Demona shattering statues we knew to be people, the clan teaming up with Xanatos, and seeing the effect that the events of the past and the centuries in between had on Demona and Macbeth was equally mind blowing and not something I would want to miss either.

I do definitely think that taking the title from the modern days events was the right call, since the title is great and is far better than "Demona F*cks Things Up Repeatedly." :)

Dasrik> If you have time in the near future to look at "A Midsummer Night's Dream" and try to find that line you were thinking of, I'd be very interested to hear it.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Thu, Mar 26, 2009 8:16:27 am EDT from 146.115.115.33

@ Dasrik: Hell yes, the Matrix was crap. I don't consider it a villain though, for that it is WAY too brief a villain.

How about the A-class-villains?

I just wonder, because I thought about it the other day, if there actually is one who is a revamp of a major villain, or just plain dull.
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Thu, Mar 26, 2009 7:18:35 am EDT from 84.191.192.93

Sorry for the double post, missed Brook's question.

My least favorite villain would be Matrix - that computer thing that became sentient and went crazy trying to make everything in "order" but then stopped because Dingo told it about "law and order". It just seemed hella contrived. Plus, before then he was pretty much Borg.
Dasrik - [vm_postitnotes at yahoo dot com]
Fly at higher game
posted @ Thu, Mar 26, 2009 5:44:05 am EDT from 98.112.234.91

In regards to what Titania whispered, I actually remember reading "A Midsummer Night's Dream" and finding a line in it that I recall thinking would have been quite fitting for what Titania whispered, but I've completely forgotten what it was.
Dasrik - [vm_postitnotes at yahoo dot com]
Fly at higher game
posted @ Thu, Mar 26, 2009 5:40:48 am EDT from 98.112.234.91

Othello: There's really no way of knowing. In fact, there's enough reason to believe that the Magus recording the events of the Wyvern Massacre was nothing more than further B.S. from Xanatos's little speech to get the gargoyles into his trust.

Of course, I do like the think that the little scene in Avalon, Part I where Magus is seen writing in the Grimmorum is actually verification that he DID write something down.

But as I said earlier, there's really no way of knowing anything more than that, especially since the Grimmorum is currently not in any condition to reveal any, uh, secrets. d:
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Thu, Mar 26, 2009 2:01:29 am EDT from 157.242.221.88

When Xanatos says"The whole story"in the grimorum by the Magus,Where do you think the"Story Begins"?From the Magus' point of view?
Othello
GargFan
posted @ Thu, Mar 26, 2009 1:12:25 am EDT from 70.162.249.241

I've interpreted the scene where Goliath and Hudson were tracking the Vikings. Goliath was oblivious to what was *really* going on and by the time he figured out the ruse, he and Hudson were too far away from the castle to make it back before dawn and it wouldn't have made any difference anyway.
Gargoyleslady - [kendal dot renfro at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Thu, Mar 26, 2009 1:10:51 am EDT from 166.128.164.237

Othello-It was in the Grimorum, the Magus wrote the entire story down in it. Either Demona or Xanatos read the solution and decided to plan together. I have forgotten how they obtain the Grimorrum, I know Greg answered that one at one point in time.
Gabriel - [TReynard1 at msn dot com]
posted @ Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:53:28 am EDT from 97.118.216.9

Othello > That I dont know but GargWiki says that Demona was the one who told Xanatos how to break the spell.
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:52:53 am EDT from 209.243.38.9

Anybody else periodically listen to a wav or mpg of the theme song to Gargoyles? It honestly helps me relax. Is that sad or a good thing? I really can't decide which one I like better.
1. Original theme without lyrics during Season 1.
2. Original theme with Goliath's voiceover during Season 2.
3. Original theme without sound effects which you can download at Carl Johnson's website. Click below. It has a flute type instrument of sorts during the main melody instead of what is on the show. Very beautiful.
Gabriel - [TReynard1 at msn dot com]
posted @ Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:51:12 am EDT from 97.118.216.9

Litwolf<How does Demona know the terms of the spell for the Gargoyles to awaken?
Othello
GargFan
posted @ Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:49:34 am EDT from 70.162.249.241

TODD-Easily the flashbacks. One of my favorite parts in the entire series is Demona turning to stone on the beach with the tear in her eye, then finding the smashed clan, the "What have I...what have THEY done to you?!" And of course, when she climbs up and plants a tender kiss and tear on Goliath's cheek and then glides away, alone forevermore.

And of course, Carl Johnson's sweeping tragic music has nothing to do with this either. Nope, not at all.
Gabriel - [TReynard1 at msn dot com]
posted @ Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:46:36 am EDT from 97.118.216.9

On Ask Greg,What does it mean when a question is approved?
Othello
GargFan
posted @ Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:39:57 am EDT from 70.162.249.241

Wow, BOOM! Studios signs a deal with a new distributor to put their licensed Pixar/Disney comics on actual newsstands: http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=20558 How often does a comic publisher ship to newsstands and use a non-Diamond distributor for floppies?
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter feed]
posted @ Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:17:06 am EDT from 216.250.163.157

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/030925-Cartoon-Upfront.html -

"On the heels of three consecutive quarters of double-digit prime time and total day growth--the only major kids network to do so--Cartoon Network unveiled 19 new programming ventures... today's announcements represent the largest commitment to new content development in Cartoon Network history."

In the meantime, Spectacular Spider-Man season 2 is squandered for months in the US for a Disney marketing experiment. Combined with the double-dipping DVDs and season 2 popping up all over YouTube with nary a takedown, it kind of makes you wonder if Sony knows how to syndicate a TV show. Talk about a spoiler...
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter feed]
posted @ Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:01:56 am EDT from 216.250.163.157

Just so we all stop gawking at the fact that Spidey missed a big plot point...

Spidey > Xanatos buys out the castle. Thats why he was examining the gargoyles. He tells Owen to make the deal and then we see deconstruction being down on the castle: bricks being moved about, the gargoyles boxed up. Then we cut to Xanatos in his helicopter back in the States, where he is watching the last of the reconstruction of the castle on top of his building. Then the gargoyles wake up and the series goes on from there.

The castle was moved to the States because thats where Xanatos lives and he broke the spell because of a deal he made with Demona. She was the one who told him the spell required the castle to rise above the clouds, which is why it and the gargoyles were placed on Xanatos' skyscraper.

It takes place in part two of Awakening, if you want to rewatch it. Its hard to miss; right after Goliath is turned to stone.
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:58:51 pm EDT from 209.243.38.9

spidey> Oh, wow.
lonerider26 - [lonerider26 at gmail dot com]
"I stand here, I cannot do otherwise."~Martin Luther
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:47:44 pm EDT from 68.51.71.186

"Could someone explain? Takes too much time to watch all of it again."

Don't take this the wrong way, Spidey, but I don't think you paid enough attention watching the episode the first time around. Seriously, take another look at the second part of Awakening . . . there's no real mystery regarding Castle Wyvern, man.

***POTENTIAL SPOILERS***

Mysterio's 'incantations' -- As someone who took Latin in high school, I just wanted to say that it looks pretty legit to me. Granted, I may be fuzzy on a lot of vocabulary, but I'm still confident in the grammar. Of course, I imagine there were SOME liberties taken when one tries to find a Latin translation for 'Elvis,' but hey, it's all in good fun.

**Looks for old Latin textbooks** . . . it's been awhile, I really should take a refresher course. Funnily enough, Gargoyles is what inspired me to take Latin in high school, instead of picking Spanish, French, or Mandarin.
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:43:47 pm EDT from 157.242.221.88

I knew the castle had to rise above the clouds for them to awake but I don't recall how it got from Europe to America. Could someone explain? Takes too much time to watch all of it again.
spideyforever
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:24:46 pm EDT from 74.199.102.57

Umm... yeah, you missed something in "Awakenings". About HALF THE STORY. X_x
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2009]
"We all got a castle each. We're up to here with (censored) castles! We just long for a bungalow or something." - Eddie Izzard
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:04:24 pm EDT from 76.205.91.248

Maybe I missed something in The Awakening but anyway The Gargoyles existed in Medieval Times which took place in Europe so how did their castle end up in America? Did Xanatos move it there or something? I mean without someone moving it they would have awakened in London or some other European city.
spideyforever
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:17:56 pm EDT from 74.199.102.57

@ Spidey: Villain.

But yeah, Maggie is one of the characters that also... failed to impress me... a bit...

I still have to wait and see if the snake shows its head to judge the Illuminati. I dig the mysterious ways, but they might tak off the power of some of their villainous members in the near future, like Castaway and Thailog. I like these most when they wreak havoc and aren't just part of a greatr scheme.
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:02:23 pm EDT from 84.191.233.194

spidey> She fell. Garoyles don't fly, they glide. You need to jump off of something (usually) to catch wind currents. You need wind currents to glide.
lonerider26 - [lonerider26 at gmail dot com]
"I stand here, I cannot do otherwise."~Martin Luther
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:06:12 pm EDT from 68.51.71.186

Todd Jensen> I couldn't really pick one. They both have their strong moments:

Flashback-
1. We learn about how Demona survived and met Macbeth (as well as the reasoning for her name).
2. More depth added to Demona and Macbeth.

Modern day-
1. The aspect and visuals of the humans turning to stone.
2. The team up between Xanatos and The Gargoyles.

Plus together it makes for a nice compare and contrast between Demona and Macbeth's alliance & dispute.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:54:12 pm EDT from 71.115.231.114

In City of Stone Part 2 when Demona knocks The Hunter off the castle why doesn't she just glide off instead of hanging on to the castle?

As for my least favorite character definitely Maggie.
spideyforever
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:33:31 pm EDT from 74.199.102.57

I've been watching my DVDs of "City of Stone" this week, as I mentioned earlier (I've got up to Part Three), and found myself getting one of my sillier creativity demons when I noticed the pigeons fluttering about in the petrified city at the start of Part Two and started thinking that it was a good thing for all those stone New Yorkers that the pigeons were just eating their food (for the ones at the sidewalk cafes), and not - um - leaving presents behind on them. (Though with Demona roaming the streets on the rampage, the pigeons are going to be the least of those people's worries.)

Which reminds me. Greg mentioned once that although the multi-parter got its name from the events in the present-day part of the story, it was the medieval segments (Macbeth and Demona's backstory) that seemed most memorable. What do you think? Which stood out to you most when you saw "City of Stone": the present-day part of the story with Demona's curse, or the flashbacks to Macbeth's old life? (For me it was the flashbacks - especially because of my fondness for medieval stories - though Demona's revenge massacre was certainly memorable and chilling. And I liked Jeffrey Robbins' cameo.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:19:25 pm EDT from 4.244.211.6

Greg once said he'd reveal what Titania said to Fox when 500 people attend The Gathering, so let's get working on that!
Patrick - [<-- Gathering 2009]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:12:36 pm EDT from 173.88.144.38

Least favorite villian > Whenever the Illuminati reared their heads, I groaned. Now that they are in the comics, I enjoy them a bit more but their episodes really drove me crazy. Im not one for conspiracy theories so I wasnt a huge fan of the whole secret society thing.

Most favorite villian > I would say McBeth, Demona, and Thailog. Also Xanatos.

Middle favorite villians > The Pack and Sevarious. I like the Sevarious plots but sometimes I find his character annoying. The Pack, they have their ups and downs.
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:09:36 pm EDT from 209.243.38.9

@ Demonskrye: Yeah, the question should be "Why is Greg throwing all these whispers in there?"

I still have to get my hands at LOUSE. :) *anticiption*

To get back to an earlier question that might have dropped: Do you guys have a least favourite villain? Or villain you think is badly conceived?

Personally, I don't dig Sevarius that much anymore. Yeah, he was nice the first few times around, and sure has a great voice actor (uhm...), but he's getting down the past of typically insane scientist right now.

Also, Wolf happens to throw me off almost EVERY TIME HE APPEARS. I'm not the biggst Hyena/Jackal fan around, but the two have wit and are so over the top that they're enjoyable again.
Wolf is like a bad joke turned mutate, and whatever he does, it doesn't really affect the main storyline in any way at all.
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 6:56:21 pm EDT from 84.191.233.194

Litwolf> I honestly don't think I ever thought much about what Titania whispered to Fox either until it came up on Ask Greg. I'm still not desperate to know what it was, but I am curious and I thought this question might shed a little more light on the nature of what she said, whether it was something that would only have meaning to Fox and her mother or a more generic "Everything will be OK, trust me, I'm your mom." If I understand Greg's answer, it leans more toward the former than the latter, which is why I think it has to be something that relates to Fox and Anastasia's relationship somehow.

What Robyn whispered to Yama is a little different because you can figure it out just by reading the comic. When Fang asks Yama what Robyn said to him, he does actually indicate the answer, just not verbally. It's subtle and I don't know if I would have noticed it if Karine Charlebois hadn't pointed it out to us herself. But unlike Titania's whisper, you can work it out, if you're so inclined.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 6:32:37 pm EDT from 146.115.115.33

Whisper > I dont think I ever had a guess for what Titania whispered to Fox. I just shrugged it off as something not for our ears, like I shrugged off whatever Hunter/Robyn whispered in Yama's ear in Louse. Something that, if it was important enough, would have been expressed outloud for all to hear.
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 6:13:12 pm EDT from 209.243.38.9

Spidey: <Sorry, people I posted something that was Spidey 101. There is this new Superman series by the same people who made The Batman. If people watch it who don't know squat about Superman and some fan boy posts something like in the next episode he finds out he's an alien will you guys chew at his head too?>

The problem is that this is not the first time you've acted like a petulant, whiny child in here, acting without any sort of courtesy and then chewing the heads off of people who rightly call you on it. That dome-shaped thing at the top of your head? It's supposed to have a brain inside it. Maybe if you don't have one, you should try growing one.

Now I already know you're going to accuse me of wasting comment space, so I'll just save you some energy and type out my reply to that now: "There's no such thing, dumbass!"
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Jesus f**king Christ, you s**t-eating little t**t. You ever hear of f**king wire-taps?" -Tony Soprano
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 6:12:17 pm EDT from 71.62.136.51

Brook> I'd have to watch the scene again because I don't really remember what was said right before Titania started whispering, but I felt like it was probably something related to Fox and Anastasia's relationship, something from Fox's past with her mother that makes her feel better about Titania and the whole situation.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 6:06:23 pm EDT from 146.115.115.33

Forgot to write Norman at the beginning.

Rebel> You're right and by the way thanks for defending me I owe you one.
spideyforever
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 6:02:31 pm EDT from 74.199.102.57

All right guys let's straighten this out. Every Spidey fan knows is the true and original Green Goblin so the fans should have seen that entire thing coming in the final episode. Some fans figured out the whole thing before the Goblin ARC even aired. Of course since Greg and the other people are such geniuses they did a great job of throwing us off. I actually doubted it was going to be Norman because a Spidey site that I now believe is full of BS said it was going to be Bart Hamilton. In the comics, Bart Hamilton was Harry's doctor after he went insane the first time he became the goblin. Harry murmured all this stuff about the Green Goblin including the location of his secret lair. Hamilton then became the 3rd Green Goblin. Since the glebilin green messed up harry this did seem possible. There's also the fact that Norman acted out a Mr. Nice Guy towards Peter just like in the movies.

Sorry, people I posted something that was Spidey 101. There is this new Superman series by the same people who made The Batman. If people watch it who don't know squat about Superman and some fan boy posts something like in the next episode he finds out he's an alien will you guys chew at his head too?

The Real Question is WHEN WILL NORMAN COME BACK AND WHEN WILL HE DISCOVER PETE IS SPIDEY? Trust me, there are a lot more suprises in Season 2 than this.

Landon> I hate to be Mr. Correcter but Montana becomes Shocker in episode 4. Episode 3 was when Dr. Connors becomes The Lizard.
spideyforever
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 5:58:49 pm EDT from 74.199.102.57

Personally, what do you guys think Titania whispered into Fox ear?

My bet was always that it had to do with Alex, probably his powers...
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 5:37:28 pm EDT from 84.191.233.194

@ Rebel: Haha, why ye think I shut it after that last post of mine? ;) ;)

Yeah, in the future I'll just let others handle it. :)

@ Gore: Hillarious post! Writing "Haha" on the net looks stupid, so I just call it hillarious. ;)
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 5:35:36 pm EDT from 84.191.233.194

I posted this recently but I'm going to post it again:

"Can I say something? Not to be rude or anything but I think it's something that needs to be said. It's not something that relates only to this specific instance. I've seen this happen here before and I don't think it's appropriate.

I don't think it's necessary to reprimand Vinnie any further. Greg W's post was enough. Every post that came after that which was directed towards Vinnie was entirely unnecessary. I'm sure he got the point after Greg W posted so there was no need for anyone else to chime in.

Sorry, it just really grates on my nerves when people beat dead horses like that. I'm not just talking about this particular instance, but it's something that seems to happen fairly often here. I think we need to give each other more credit and understand that most people only need to be told something once. There's no need to "gang up" on anybody. If you disagree with what someone is saying/doing, but another poster has already voiced the same concerns that you have, then just bite your tongue. If the offender persists, THEN add your thoughts, but said offender should first be given an opportunity (after the initial warning/reprimand/whatever) to stop what he/she is doing before multiple people start doling out their criticism."

...Except amend that middle paragraph to say something about spideyforever instead of Vinnie.

I think this whole discussion has gotten uneccessarily out of hand and is bordering on being childish. On reading through everything a second time, it seems to me that the moment it got out of hand was when Brook first posted his thoughts on the matter (no offense Brook). If everyone had just shut up and left well enough alone after Greg B's second warning to spideyforever (or maybe after Demonskyre's post), then we wouldn't be having this ridiculous discussion now. Greg B had it covered.

Brook > I agree with you that this discussion has gotten out of hand, and the level of criticism that has been dumped on spideyforever is probably more than what is appropriate (since I, personally, don't think he was posting those spoilers to be malicious). However, I think part of the reason why this happened was your initial post defending him, as that is probably the reason why this discussion has gotten so drawn-out. I know you were trying to help but in this particular instance it seems that your good intentions ended up making things worse.

Spideyforever > I believe that when you posted those spoilers, you did not deliberately intend to spoil anything for anybody and probably weren't aware that many people here would consider those to be really big spoilers. So, while I cannot speak for everyone else here, I am personally willing to let it go. Just be more careful in the future.

Anthony "Tini" and Jennifer "Crzy" Demona > No offense, but I think both of you were out of line. I think your posts made this discussion get more heated than it needed to get and only succeeded in escalating the level of childishness of this discussion. I understand your sentiments but there was no need to resort to personal attacks or ill wishes. The things you said didn't actually contribute to the discussion or anyone's understanding of how important spoiler warnings are, but instead added more fuel to the fire.

Everyone and anyone > It's simple, really. Just use spoiler warnings, anytime there is even the slightest reason to believe that other people haven't seen/read the movie/show/comic that you are talking about. Never assume that what you are posting is so minor that no one would consider it a spoiler. Everyone's opinion differs in terms of what they consider "minor" or "major" spoilers, and most people don't want any spoilers at all, no matter how vague, minor, or insignificant they may be. I would rather someone put spoiler tags when they aren't really needed (just to be on the safe side) than not put them when they are needed. As Greg B said, it's just common courtesy.

Lastly, see my third paragraph from the thing I copied and pasted from a few weeks ago. I honestly believe that the second set of spoilers that spideyforever posted in his apology was an honest (though careless) mistake. There was no need to gang up on him or insult him. Greg B and Demonskyre had it covered. There is no need to reprimand someone (who has already been thoroughly reprimanded) unless you have something new and constructive to add. For all we know, this discussion might have pissed spideyforever off and now he might change his text color, avatar, and name and start posting spoilers on purpose as revenge. I doubt that will happen but my point is it's always better to foster understanding in others rather than beat them down and make them feel bad about themselves. Personally, I can tolerate polite criticism easily and will gladly modify my behavior if someone asks me respectfully and deals with me as an equal. But if someone treats me with hostility, talks down to me, repeats themselves unneccessarily, gangs up on me, or talks rudely to me, they will accomplish nothing. Let's all behave like adults rather than a pack of wolves.
Rebel
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 5:07:45 pm EDT from 198.175.205.251

My question got answered! Yay!

So apparently, whatever Titania whispered to Fox is something that would be understood by a longtime fan of "Gargoyles," but a more casual fan might find it confusing. And again, at this point, it's probably not nearly as exciting as we think it is.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 5:00:53 pm EDT from 146.115.115.33

Ha! Greg's Latin post is hilarious.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter feed]
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 4:49:58 pm EDT from 128.101.32.234

A tree has fallen on the phone wires, the connection is cut, no matter how hard you shout into the phone nobody is listening on the other end. Dig?

If you see that orange text, it's a spoiler. Just assume this as a simple fact of life. Leave it at that. The more you try to argue the more you're just going to frustrate yourself.
Gorebash
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 4:33:51 pm EDT from 207.206.236.230

spideyforever - Being a Spidey fan isn't relevant. Ever since episode 3 when Montana turned into Shocker, Greg has taken more leeway with Spider-Man's villains than any other aspect of the Marvel universe. The little itsy bitsy thing you spoiled might have been the single greatest mystery spanning season 1 and 2 and was in no way a given with or without Spider-Man lore.

But regardless, we can agree to disagree. All we ask is that you add spoiler tags for anything unaired in the US. In fact, for comic releases, we often include spoiler tags for a few days after the release until most people get a chance to pick it up. It may be silly, but that's long been the standard of this comment room.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter feed]
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 4:11:06 pm EDT from 128.101.32.234

Spideyforever> I am struggling to think of a polite and diplomatic way to respond to this.

"The price you pay for not being a Spidey fan"

... Seriously?

I know long time Spidey fans who were surprised by that ending. I know a lot of long time Spidey fans who were surprised by that ending. And I know plenty who are avoiding the spoilers and YouTube because they want to experience it on TV.

This whole "that's the price you pay for not being a Spidey fan" is a very sad and disappointing statement, and I am hoping you didn't think it through, because I don't want to think you're trolling.

Everyone experiences something for the first time, and if they want to go in fresh, with no spoilers, they are welcome to do so. They should not be robbed of that chance.

You're not a long time "Gargoyles" fan, and have just started watching it recently. I wouldn't go out of my way to spoil you on what's coming.

I've read the Lord of the Rings books years before the movies came out, those books have been around for decades. But friends of mine who came to it through the films... I never, not once, spoiled them. I was always careful not to. Because I did not want to rob them the chance of being as surprised by what happened in that wonderful story.

I am trying to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you weren't thinking. But the more you post, the more I think you're just trolling.

But, dude, you just had someone who actually worked on the show rightly chastise you for that. This series was a labor of love for a lot of people, whether they're the Producers or the Production Assistants. Take note of that, and try not to let it happen again.
Greg Bishansky - [<----- Gathering 2009]
If I put one leg in front of the other, does it make me go forward?
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 4:11:02 pm EDT from 75.50.154.20

spideyforever> This will be the last thing I say on this matter.

I'm really dumbfounded by the fact that you don't seem to understand how anyone who you've spoiled this episode feels. It's fine to be a fan of something, but to spoil a plot point in a TV show that's based on a comic book and then act like it's everyone else's thought for not being a fan of the comic? I've supported the right of anyone and everyone to discuss subjects other than "Gargoyles" here (aside from religion and politics which are generally agreed to be too contentious). But I feel like you're abusing that ability by assuming that everyone in a "Gargoyles" comment room should be Spider-Man fans and if they're not, then that's their problem and their fault if they don't already know what you do in regards to a TV show that hasn't aired in the US yet.

I have no interest in responding to any more of your posts, mostly because I probably won't be reading them in case you decide to write another one only intended "fo Spidey fans." I like Spider-Man plenty, but I don't like having TV shows spoiled for me.

I agreed threats and personal attacks are uncalled for, but I am still not happy about what you did.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 4:07:35 pm EDT from 146.115.115.33

Spidey > Just post spoiler tags in the future and problems like this discussion will never happen. Be fair to everyone and just do it that way, please.
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 4:00:11 pm EDT from 209.243.38.9

Sorry for the tripple, @ Demonskrye: Good post. Seriously. That was heartfelt and adult, especially the latter part of it. :)
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 3:54:10 pm EDT from 84.191.233.194

Anthony Tiri> Since when it is okay to threaten people just because they spoiled some little itsy bitsy thing that's pretty obvious in the Spider-man.

Everyone Else>I was speaking pretty much to Spidey fans if you're not a fan and don't know the simple thing I spolied that's too bad you lost the excitement out of finding out who he is but it's the price you pay for not being a Spidey fan. Sorry.
spideyforever
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 3:50:14 pm EDT from 74.199.102.57

@ Michael E.: Don't forget: Jackal, Heyena and Wold have been popular actors before their criminal career.

Something I've been thinking about quite some time now: Which is your least favourite/the most lame GARGOYLES A-class-villain?

Are there even lame/bad ones??
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 3:50:11 pm EDT from 84.191.233.194

@ Demonskrye: I can see your point. I find it a bit dull to lash out in that amount to somebody who did that little though. I think he's learnt his lesson from Greg Bs first post. If he will make an excuse, I'm fine with it, if not, it is his decision, and we cannot and shouldn't force him to, fo we have no right.

Personally, I found it a minor spoiler, and I havn't even read the comics, yet was aware of that tidbit he spoke of. In no ways did I feel as if it ruined something for me. I cannot speak for others, but hope this hasn't ruined the season for anybody else, for there is a lot more in there than just this.

I just adressed Gore a day or so back about the Spoiler issue in Ask Greg, and I guess you could extend his CR to this comment room as well.

And I don't think we'e on the place to tell other people what to do. We might remind them of it, but in no way is it on us to go "YOU ARE SUCH AN IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!!".

I'm not for spoilers or something. I walk into films without any knowledge about them, let alone actors and directors, possibly a vague outline of the plot, so to have a genuine experience. Still, I really found his spoiler quite minor. I've not seen Season 2 though, I just found it a bit dull that it generates that many posts, whilst the necessary has been said hours ago.
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 3:48:23 pm EDT from 84.191.233.194

The general public knows very little about the gargoyles. Most importantly, they do not know the extent of the capabilities of gargoyles. That is why the public is more wary of the gargoyles than they are of Wolf, Jackal, or Hyena.
Michael Ejercito - [mejercit at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 3:12:48 pm EDT from 75.142.121.139

Brook> If I'm understanding you right, you're saying that if something has already happened in the comics, it's not a spoiler to reveal it because it already happened in another medium and people should understand that it's going to happen anyways. I completely disagree. Aside from the arguments already presented that not everyone here and not everyone who watches the show is already a Spider-Man fan and may not be aware of things that fans of the comic know, the TV show is not the exact same thing as the comic and there is no guarantee whatsoever that anything that happens in the comics will also happen in the show. If people want to talk about what they know from the comics and speculate about whether these events will take place in the show, I'm fine with that because the comics being talked about are usually ones that have been around for several years so people have ample opportunity to read them and can't really have any reasonable expectation of not having those comics spoiled for them. Do I know that Gwen Stacy dies in the comics? Yes. I've read that issue and many of the issues surrounding it. Do I think that Gwen might eventually die on the show? Yes, and if anyone was interested, I would be happy to discuss the reasons why. But even if I had a strong suspicion that it was going to happen, I would still be upset if someone just blurted out "Gwen Stacy dies in the next season" without any kind of warning. Because I want to see the show for myself and be surprised by whether or not it happens at all as well as when and how. I've read a lot of X-Men, but that doesn't mean I'd have been OK with it if someone had told me that Jean Grey becomes Phoenix at the end of 'X-Men 2" and is Dark Phoenix in "X-Men 3" before I had a reasonable chance at seeing either film.

I do not hate spideyforever. I do not wish him any physical or mental harm and like I said, what he did is not going to ruin my day or keep me from enjoying the series. All I'm asking is that he have a little more consideration for people who are choosing to wait and watch the series when it airs on TV in the US and not do the very thing he's supposedly apologizing for in the same post as the apology. People post spoilers on the internet without warnings, either by accident or just to be jerks. This is not news. But that doesn't mean the rest of us have to just shrug our shoulders and say "Oh well. Too bad for me."
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 3:02:20 pm EDT from 146.115.115.33

@ Anthony Tini & D. Taina: I do not defend hiss actions, but wonder why people themselves put so much force and energy into something they cannot change and is a minor thing.

He didn't even spoil the last EP. He might have spoiled a part of its outcome, but so what?? Somebody already made him feel bad about it, why do there have to be 10 posts calling him the devil and who tell him how much they hate him and how he should shut up?

I find that more offending than what caused the entire thing.

And if he will say sorry, he'll say sorry one way or the other, and won't do so if 10 more people poit out how wrong he is.
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 2:40:23 pm EDT from 84.191.233.194

@ Kth Boyd: No harm. She just had... some impact on comic history and all... :)
It is actually pretty interresting, that characters destiny alone changed the entire course of Comics worldwide. There must be an essay somewhere on it, that could or should provide a good read. Wiki is pretty spot on too, at least this time.

Sure, being nice and polite doedn't harm, but we really shouldn't all be up in arms about it if it happens. I will still watch the show and still appreciate it just the same. And I hope so do you. We can't erase his post and somebody told him to use them in the future, so there you go. Getting all enraged over it is only going to do harm one way or the other.
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 2:34:36 pm EDT from 84.191.233.194

I don't know who's worse? The jerk who posted the spoiler or the jerk defending him?
Anthony Tini
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 2:31:16 pm EDT from 159.240.11.254

Brook: Why are you defending Spidey? He did something wrong. He spoiled the ending to season two of Spider-Man. That's a huge deal, especially to people like me who didn't know anything about Spider-Man but still watched the show. Just because people on IMDB spoil everything doesn't mean it's okay to do it here, or anywhere else. Stop defending people who screw up. Just let Spidey apologize, learn from his mistake and move on. Geez.
D. Taina - [demona3 at hotmail dot com]
"The story is told -- though who can say if it be true..." -Shari
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 2:29:52 pm EDT from 74.213.121.140

Brook> Um, it's not common knowledge. I don't even know (or maybe it's that I don't remember) who Gwen Stacy is.

Spoiler warnings> The point is, if the episode has already aired pretty much everywhere, then warnings aren't really necessary unless you want to be extra courteous to people who may be behind. If the episode has not aired yet, and even on the date the episode airs, it is customary to warn people. Some people don't care and will read it anyway, but those who like to learn what happens from watching the show and not perusing the Gargoyles CR will appreciate knowing not to read it.

As with many things, spoiler warnings don't take long, don't hurt anything, and prove that the poster is at least somewhat concerned about the other people in the room. Being polite is definitely not a bad thing.
Kerry (Kth) Boyd
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 2:29:12 pm EDT from 71.56.36.35

BTW, why don't we rather freak out about THIS:

http://thefilmstage.com/2009/03/25/where-the-wild-things-are-trailer/

Now THAT is some positive energy. :D
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 2:27:04 pm EDT from 84.191.233.194

But who are you to judge whom to chastise??

ust because he didn't drop a spoiler warning on it? C'mon, you're old enough to drop it. You've told him to use Spoiler tags once, and if he picks it up, he can, if he won'r, there is no law to do so.

People come to frigging imdb message boards and post the ending to HP7 all over them, on film MBs where they don't even belong, and just because they hate HP and want to heat the entire thing up.

But so what?? probably these guys WANT that kinda reaction.

And although it is above me to judge if Spidey does or does not want to (although I guess he doesn't), all that comes after will just heat up the situation and futher make him look like an idiot and as if everybody else is better than him, just because they use spoiler tags.

And I'm not even sure if the use of a spoiler tag was in need in said post.

The guy was excited about it and just went "Yeah, so that's next!" Dozens of people went so after X3, and spoiled me, and yet it... Oh, X3 sucked, I forgot... anyways, it didn't lessen my appreciation for the comic and what happenned in there.

Don't put people on the cross for something minor THAT EASILY!!

Like, seriously...

I'd understand it if he revealed issue 9 of the comic or the entire EP, but this is a bit minor to get all your arms up on...
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 2:22:05 pm EDT from 84.191.233.194

No, Brook, it is common courtesy. He should have posted a spoiler warning... please stop defending it.

*** SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN SPOILERS ***

See, that's not hard.

Yes, I saw the final episodes of the season, but Greg and his crew succeeded at creating a mystery out of a result that everyone knew. They kept this life long Spider-Man fan and expert guessing.

It was terrific, it was exciting. And I hate that spideyforever there robbed other people of that experience.

*** END SPOILERS ***

Everyone here is right to chastise him. Because, and no offense, but who are you to decide what constitutes a big spoiler and what doesn't. Maybe you don't care, but others do.
Greg Bishansky - [<----- Gathering 2009]
If I put one leg in front of the other, does it make me go forward?
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 2:15:15 pm EDT from 75.50.154.20

Plus, I've been spoiled on half of the Harry potter series, but guys, it is just a book.

If it happens, it is either bad luck or somebody just fucked up or something, but still, the quality of a product is by no means achieved by the element of surprise, at least it shouldn't.

The show is good and cool as it is, but there is a difference to spoiling something huge and unforseen and something minor and, at least to the fanbase and comic readers, well known.

It's the comic books "Oh, so Humbert Humbert died after writing Lolita."

Like, really, don't get so upset about such things.

I should use this to promote my forum, where posts can be edited and altered, and are set up in different categories, so nobody IS actually reading something he/she doesn't want to read. But I wont. XD ;) ;)
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 2:15:14 pm EDT from 84.191.233.194

@ Greg B: Dude, calm down.

Like, seriously.

We're talking a kids animated show here about a cultural icon like Spiderman, of which most of the readers know a lot of. Like, say, Gwen Stacy dies. If he'd post that Gwen Stacy dies, although this is common knowledge, the only thing to spoil is the way and which EP she dies in.

Demonskrye is right though, this is a Garg-themed comment room, so not everybody is meant to know this.

Still, there ain't anything in that post that particularily spoilt anything for me. I mean, he's not really talking of the main protagonists destiny in the last Harry potter or something, but a kids cartoon show and the well known future of the comic, which is to be picked up.

I mean, this is like saying, "Oh, so now Gandalfs down he's comming back in part 2." I mean, I surely did not tell this to anybody, but if somebody is reading a post in which the writer raves about the last EP of a show... *man*, then he just can't help but be spoiled.

Just chill out, really.

Oh, plus I just started this HUGE Killers coveralbum rumor a few days back, what was meant as a joke and got picked up by wiki, and I still have to grin about that. XD
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 2:09:22 pm EDT from 84.191.233.194

Spideyforever - As someone who is both a huge Spidey fan AND who worked on Spectacular Spider-man... I am HUGELY disappointed that you would be such a TROLL as to post a HUGE spoiler like that without any warning. Holy crap dude, show SOME FRAKKING COURTESY to the rest of the people who are waiting for it to show up on Disney. RUDE AND UNCALLED FOR man. Just WOW.

What an inconsiderate little douche.

You did bad, so suck it up... say sorry WITHOUT another spoiler and STFU. Geezus.
Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson
"You oughta be shot. Or stabbed, lose a leg. To be a surgeon, you know? Know what kind of pain you're dealing with." - Jubal Early, Firefly
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 2:06:12 pm EDT from 76.174.154.162

spideyforever > I am not a Spider-man fan and I know next to nothing about the Spider-man mythos/universe. Aside from the Spiderman movies, SSM is really my only exposure to Spidey. The only reason why I plan on watching SSM is because Greg is involved in it. I suspect that the same is true for lots of other people in this CR who are planning on watching SSM. The point is, many of us don't know anything about Spider-man and even though some things are probably blatantly obvious to a long-time Spider-man fan and you might take it for granted that everyone knows it, they aren't necessarily obvious or known to many of the people in this CR, who may only be watching it because Greg is involved.
Rebel
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 2:02:22 pm EDT from 198.175.205.251

spideyforever> "I suddenly want something very bad to happen to you." ~ Brodie Bruce
Anthony Tini
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 1:24:06 pm EDT from 159.240.11.254

spideyforever> Not everyone here is a Spider-Man fan. I happen to be. You clearly are. But however much we may talk about other subjects here, this is a "Gargoyles" themed comment room. So you cannot simply assume that just because you and some other people here know a lot about Spider-Man's history, everyone else does to. Aside from that, if you had done this same thing on a Spider-Man discussion forum, I think you'd find people reacting negatively. Spider-Man is a huge franchise at this point. Greg W. is taking a lot of cues from the original comics, but he's also taking some from the Ultimate Spider-Man comics, the movies, other sources, and his own original ideas, like Montana being Shocker. So while wha you revealed was not the most surprising bit of information I've ever heard, it was not a foregone conclusion and I don't appreciate learning it before I wanted to. And I do agree with Greg B. that it sets a bad precedent.

Yes, I know that "Spectacular Spider-Man Season Two" is available on YouTube and that it already aired in other countries. I'm choosing to wait until the new season airs on cable in the US. You didn't. That's fine. I'm not even saying that you can't discuss it. All I'm asking is that if you want to talk about it here in anything other than very general terms - like "That episode was really cool" - you put something like "SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN SPOILERS" at the beginning of your post so that I can choose whether or not i want to read it. I don't think that's much to ask. From the way you've reacted in the past, I think you would prefer doing that to having people not read your posts. I can't speak for anyone else, but if you're going to insist on discussing SS-M season two without some kind of spoiler warnings, I will stop reading your posts until the show airs. Whether you care about that or not is your business, but I think what you're doing is rather thoughtless, especially when it would be so simple to add a spoiler warning and respect other people's desire to wait and watch the show on their TVs rather than on YouTube.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 12:48:36 pm EDT from 146.115.115.33

Spideyforever> Just type SPOILER WARNINGS on your post. It's not that hard.

And, really, who are you to decide what is a spoiler and what isn't? It's common courtesy.

But, I digress...

You know what, ignore my last post. Especially a certain middle paragraph. Totally not my place to make a statement like that.
Greg Bishansky - [<----- Gathering 2009]
If I put one leg in front of the other, does it make me go forward?
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 12:26:49 pm EDT from 76.95.180.59

If you're a Spidey fan you have already figured out the Goblin's indenity. I gave a scene away but I didn't say what happens to Norman to make him hide though a Spidey fan would probably figure out he's alive anyway before seeing that scene. Plus, as said before I didn't mention how he planned his scheme though it's obvious to Spidey fans how he did. ALL OF SEASON 2 IS ON YOUTUBE JUST TYPE IN SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN SEASON 2.
spideyforever
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 12:11:02 pm EDT from 208.108.81.37

Brook> Are you seriously saying people don't need to start posting spoiler warnings? Really?

Because if you are, say so now. Please. Because if you're going to be encouraging things like spoiler warning free posts, and spreading unfounded rumors (which you did do a couple weeks ago), then I think one of us needs to leave this CR. And since I'm not going to ask you to do that, then it's going to be me.

Because, the fact is, spoiler warnings are a common courtesy, and the guy ignores it twice. The first time, and then again in his apology? Why are you encouraging this?

Yes, I agree that there is a statute of limitations on spoilers, but this here hasn't even aired in the United States yet. I'd say that statute is no where close to expiring.

So, please, don't encourage this sort of thing.
Greg Bishansky - [<----- Gathering 2009]
If I put one leg in front of the other, does it make me go forward?
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 12:07:35 pm EDT from 76.95.180.59

Brook> I did stop reading that one. I didn't stop reading the apology which also contained a spoiler until it was too late.

I can understand one slip up, but repeating the same mistake while you're apologizing for it?

It's not going to ruin my whole day or keep me from watching the show, but spoiler warnings are kind of an accepted tenant of etiquette, both in this particular comment room and around the internet. If people don't want to use them, fine, but they shouldn't be surprised if people get upset or stop reading their posts for fear that they might read something about a show they haven't seen yet.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:24:19 am EDT from 146.115.115.33

OH yeah, I did forget that:

Seriously, hilst there might be a SPOILER WARNING in front of Spideys post, I don't think it should. Like, seriously.

That's like saying "Oh, so now XXX dies in X-Men, it is time for the Phoenix saga!!"

Plus, if somebody starts a post with THE ENDING TO THIS SEASON WAS THE BEST EVER AND NOW THAT... and a person who does not want to be spoiled is STILL READING... well, then this is certainly the readers fault, for all that came before implies a spoiler. ;P
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:02:38 am EDT from 84.191.233.194

that_noob> To clarify what Todd said a little, most fans and Greg Weisman do not consider The Goliath Chronicles to be canon, and if any one person could be considered the creator of "Gargoyles," Greg Weisman is that person. So ignoring season three has more to it than just a group of fans saying "This wasn't as good, so we've decided it never happened."

Are people dumb, panicky, dangerous animals? Possibly. But we also have an instinct for self preservation that at one time probably served us very well as a species and is still useful in some situations today. For early humans, fearing what we did not understand was probably a pretty good idea. That caveman who runs and hides from the saber-toothed tiger is probably going to last a lot longer and be able to reproduce a lot more than the one who tries to pet the big kitty. (I don't recall right now if saber-toothed tigers actually lived at the same time as any early humans, but you get the idea.) And again, that instinct is not totally without use today. I know we'd all like to think that we'd be curious or accepting from the get-go if we actually met a gargoyle and under certain circumstances - like being rescued from falling off a building - I'll give us the benefit of the doubt. But if there's a guy running down the street with a gun, most of us don't stop to think about whether or not he's a plainclothes cop or whether he's defending himself or chasing down someone who just did something bad or is about to. We run as fast as we can in the opposite direction. Even if the guy is a policeman in uniform, we'll probably take off because we don't want to be around if bullets start flying. Now imagine that the guy with the gun is a mugger and you're his intended victim. There's no one around to help you. Suddenly, out of nowhere, a lion leaps in and attacks the mugger. What do you do? Do you thank the lion? Do you stick around to consider whether the lion can tell the difference between right and wrong? Do you ask the lion if he could hand you back your wallet because the guy whose face he's gnawing on already took it? Do you stick around so that when the police or animal control or whoever show up, they know that the lion was just saving you from the mugger? No. You run. Maybe later, you start to wonder how it happened that you were so lucky and the lion attacked the mugger while ignoring you and what this might mean and how you're going to be the life of the party for the next month or so with your great lion story. But first, you have to get yourself to safety. Now if the lion has wings and spikes along its back and is glowing green, is that really going to change your immediate reaction all that much? Maybe you even *think* you heard the lion say something in English, but you're obviously terrified and when you get home, you're not sure if you really heard the lion talking or just imagined it.

I think Todd's correct in pointing out that a person who is saved from falling off a building by a gargoyle would view gargoyles very differently than one who was rescued from a mugger. If a creature rescues you from falling, sets you down somewhere safe, and never shows any sign throughout the whole process that it wants to eat you, then I think you can safely assume that it actually did decide to save you. As it stands, most people know little or nothing about gargoyles beyond that they're real and potentially very dangerous and even the people who have encountered gargoyles are frequently very confused or misinformed about them, fearing what they don't understand.

spideyforever> I'm really trying not to be needlessly mean, but for someone who gets upset when people ignore your posts, you sure do seem to be giving me a really good reason to ignore them. Until Spectacular Spider-Man season two airs in the US sometime this summer, PLEASE put CLEAR SPOILER WARNINGS around ANYTHING that you post that contains information about the second season. If you can't remember to do that, I'd suggest you wait to discuss season two until it has fully aired in the US. I'm more than a little annoyed that you've ruined part of the story for me, so don't do it again.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:49:11 am EDT from 146.115.115.33

@ that noob: Speaking of season 3, keep in mind - or rather 'let me inform you' - that season 3 was NOT written, conceived and produced by the orriginal team of Gargoyles.

G. Weisman, who is the series mastermind, was only involved in the first Episode, THE JOURNEY.

For the 'real' season 3, check out the comics from SLG, which are, even for my critical standarts, pretty good and badass.

As for your question, the show depicts citizens as very different. There are some that are worried, there are some that are dumb, there are some that areagressive and some that are friendly.

If you considern a vast amount of people voting against the right for gay marriage last yar, then you can keep in mind how differet people react to something that is an "alien" concept to them, be it in lifestyle or in species.

The comics now have not adressed the population of NY as heavy as the show. The first two issues did, which were re-writings of THE JOURNEY, but the rest not so much. I'm thrilled to see how this develops.
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:28:09 am EDT from 84.191.233.194

I was expecting that quote from "Men in Black" to show up at some point in this (admittedly, just-begun) discussion.

Some of the instances you cite come from "The Goliath Chronicles", which was made by a new production team that didn't have as much experience with the story and characters as the production team for the first two seasons (and which most "Gargoyles" fans consider uncanonical). I'm probably more concerned by the public's failure to be suspicious of Castaway after he was firing heavy artillery in downtown Manhattan.

I think that the gargoyles would have two strikes against them. First, we've been conditioned to look upon anything that resembles a gargoyle (bat-like wings, horns, clawed hands and feet, and only showing up at night) as evil and hostile. Almost all portrayals of living gargoyles in pop culture portray them as vicious monsters preying on humans. (I can think of only a few exceptions other than the animated series, such as the singing gargoyles in the Disney adaptation of "The Hunchback of Notre Dame", and the children's book "God Bless the Gargoyles".)

And most of the times that the gargoyles appeared in public was to fight criminals. We know that they're protecting the city from the criminals, but most bystanders wouldn't know that. For all that they know, the gargoyles were looking for something - or rather - someone to eat; they were probably convinced that the gargoyles would start on them next, after dealing with the muggers. (I think it significant that the event that opens Elisa to the possibility that the gargoyles aren't as monstrous as they appear was Goliath saving her from *falling off a building* - an act that doesn't involve fighting - rather than from human assailants.) And the gargoyles haven't been giving press conferences to tell their side of the story - so most of the time, the public only have access to Castaway's side of the story. That's not going to help.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:27:00 am EDT from 4.244.211.57

"I'm just curious about the mental state of the populous of NYC... I don't think this even remotely resembles how real people would act in the given situations."

J: "Why the big secret? People are smart, they can handle it."
K: "A *person* is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."

- Men In Black
Patrick - [<-- Gathering 2009]
"Men go crazy in congregations, they only get better one by one." - Sting, "All This Time"
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 6:45:57 am EDT from 173.88.144.38

This will be my first post here and I want to say that I loved this series as a kid and was sad when it disappeared. I'm surprised how excited I was 10+ years later when I found it on Netflix, where I watched all they had and then saw the rest on YouTube. The commentary from the dvd's on Netflix lead me to this site where I can now FINALLY lay my thoughts to rest.

Here I go:
I'm just curious about the mental state of the populous of NYC in the movie. They treat the gargoyles as mindless beasts, the same as if they were an evasive pack of loose wolves in the city; at the same time in season 3, they are so easily willing to blame the gargoyles for robbing stores and planting bombs. Then they form riots at the drop of a hate to attack the gargoyles... they are just missing pitch forks and torches with the way they act. I don't think this even remotely resembles how real people would act in the given situations.

And another thing, if I just fell off a twenty story building and was saved by an alien mud creature with a uniquely awful smell, I would not want to stick around, however, I'd make sure to say "thanks" first before anything else, probably to the effect of, "Thanks for saving my life! After that experience, I think I really need to go home. Keep up the good work!" As opposed to the usual reaction of the people, "Get away from me!"

Now if it were these exact gargoyles that just saved me, I honestly can't fathom an accurate reaction. I'd be ecstatic to meet them at the very least and would probably find myself following them every night for a while just 'cause I'd want to hang out with them. Actually, if I was in NYC to begin with, I'd have to be visiting from way out of town. I'd probably first be finding reasons to move their.

This now brings up questions for Greg so I'll end it here. Thanks for reading. Responses?
that_noob - [destroyka at mac dot com]
In all respects, the entire human race is a noob.
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 2:54:59 am EDT from 75.111.129.165

Hi greg b
Dan - [vodocius at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 2:37:15 am EDT from 205.188.117.67

You're right. I'm not married.
Gargoyleslady - [kendal dot renfro at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 12:13:41 am EDT from 32.176.34.246

"What kind of a mate hides things from her life partner?"

You've obviously never been married.
Roy
posted @ Wed, Mar 25, 2009 12:00:08 am EDT from 71.84.197.71

I want opinions on this part of Awakenings part 1. Demona had a look that she was hiding something. What kind of a mate hides things from her life partner? This is Goliath's mate, second in command and best warrior. Although, I do think there was guilt buried in there. I also think she may have been afraid to tell Goliath at this point.
Gargoyleslady - [kendal dot renfro at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Tue, Mar 24, 2009 10:07:47 pm EDT from 32.176.165.121

Dude... you're doing it again!

SPOILER WARNINGS!
Greg Bishansky - [<----- Gathering 2009]
If I put one leg in front of the other, does it make me go forward?
posted @ Tue, Mar 24, 2009 9:48:49 pm EDT from 75.50.154.20

Greg B> D'oh I forgot but everyone knew the Goblin was Norman and I didn't really spoil anything because I didn't say anything about how he planned his scheme.
spideyforever
posted @ Tue, Mar 24, 2009 9:26:40 pm EDT from 74.199.102.57

Spideyforever>

Dude... post SPOILER WARNINGS for the people who haven't seen it yet.
Greg Bishansky - [<----- Gathering 2009]
If I put one leg in front of the other, does it make me go forward?
posted @ Tue, Mar 24, 2009 8:16:45 pm EDT from 75.50.154.20

SEASON 2 OF SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN HAD THE MOST AWESOME ENDING FOR ANY SPIDEY SERIES EVER!!!!!!!!!! GREAT JOB GREG!!!!!!!! THE CLONE SAGA COULD HAPPEN NOW SINCE NORMAN IS NOW IN HIDING LIKE IN THE COMICS. THE ENDING REMINDS ME OF THE MOVIES WHICH I'M SURE GREG INTENDED. IT MAKES YOU WONDER IF NORMAN IS ALIVE IN THE MOVIES AS WELL.
spideyforever
posted @ Tue, Mar 24, 2009 7:45:33 pm EDT from 74.199.102.57

Londoner > Since the mutates look awesome and I think it would be cool to be a mutate, I think I'd care less about regaining my humanity and more about retribution. But I don't even know if I'd care that much about retribution because I think I'd like being a mutate. This is all assuming that being a mutate doesn't come with some horrible side effect that we have not yet seen.

But, if I was in the shoes of someone like Benny or Erin, who (IMO) got pretty cruddy mutate forms, I'd care more about regaining my humanity. If it turned out that it was impossible to return me to my human form or the good doctor was unwilling, then I'd seek retribution.
Rebel
posted @ Tue, Mar 24, 2009 7:10:05 pm EDT from 75.65.27.129

If you notice anything goofy with the template/layout of this place, let me know. Just fixed a bug in the template system that was screwing up the preservation of carriage returns in the source. That fixed a couple problems I was having before, but may have brought up new ones, especially in older browsers, that I'm not immediately aware of. So let me know.
Gorebash - [gorebash at s8 dot org]
posted @ Tue, Mar 24, 2009 6:54:51 pm EDT from 207.206.236.230

Hello everyone I am posting a thought that had arisen in my mind last night when rewatching The Cage.

You recall when Sevarius is trying to foist the cure/poison/??? on Talon it is clear that Maggie and Claw want to be human again more than anything else, but that Talon and Fang would far rather exact retribution upon Sevarius than give thought to his 'antidotes.'

It put me in mind of a discussion I had had with a friend on a subject where there is an analogy of a kind. She stated that having experienced great harm from someone else she would consider her healing and the prevention of anyone else suffering the same thing to be most important whereas I having also experienced something bad would consider retribution to be the most desirable outcome, more so than physical healing even.

So how would you all answer Maggie's question "is your vengeance more important than our humanity?" if you were in Talon's position? In their predicament would you consider revenge or regaining humanity to be more important?
Londoner
posted @ Tue, Mar 24, 2009 6:44:20 pm EDT from 90.192.128.147

Aw, come on, we all know Demona is a schemer. You didn't think she was giggling "Exactly as planned" during the whole City of Stone thing?
Dasrik - [vm_postitnotes at yahoo dot com]
Fly at higher game
posted @ Tue, Mar 24, 2009 6:19:34 pm EDT from 98.112.234.91

Brook: Right now I'm not going to do anything about trying to add flags or spoiler tags or add any other new functionality to Ask Greg. We'll just have to deal with it. Besides, all of Ask Greg is spoilers if you think about it.
Gorebash
posted @ Tue, Mar 24, 2009 5:40:21 pm EDT from 207.206.236.230

Demonskrye: The FAQ bit is probably just a typo. The first half of the sentence says "two long stays" and the second half has a list of two places. Since it's not in italics it's not a direct quote from Greg, but a summary compiled from various separate answers Greg's given over the years.

And I can't remember anything specific Greg has said on why he doesn't have us delete the goofball questions, but I really wouldn't worry about it. I think getting worked up over them is making a mountain out of a mole hill.
Gorebash
posted @ Tue, Mar 24, 2009 5:28:27 pm EDT from 207.206.236.230

I think it states pretty clearly "two each", and it would make a lot of sense, at least to me. Plus, as you pointed out, the opportunities for interresting storyline ideas are rather lengthy, if he stays for some time in both places twice.

Actually, I dunno if anybody did, but from what I've read in BATMAN RIP, I consider if Greg will do something similliar to tie the various storylines together...
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:10:05 am EDT from 84.191.196.15

Brook> I think putting questions and answers related to "Spectacular Spider-Man" season two in a different color could be a good idea IF it's not going to be an incredible hassle of Gorebash and IF it would be just as easy to change them back after season two airs in the US, so we don't have a bunch of questions and answers in a different color for no particular reason. But if it's going to be difficult, I think those of us who are waiting for the US premiere can just be careful and skim over anything season two related.

FAQ> Since Ask Greg is back, I've been taking the opportunity to browse through the FAQ. Even though I've generally paid attention to the Ask Greg answers, I'm finding reading through the FAQ really interesting and I'm coming across a few tidbits I didn't know before, particularly in the "TimeDancer" section. Here's a quote that caught my attention:

"...he would have gone to many other places, including two long stays each in Feudal Japan (where he'd be joined by his mate Katana) and the time of Gargoyles 2198."

Is that worded wrong? Should it read "including two long stays, one in Feudal Japan....and one in the time of Gargoyles 2198"? Or is Brooklyn actually going to make two lengthy visits to each of these times and locations? If it is the latter, I'm not sure what two visits to mean for 2198, but two visits to Feudal Japan could be very interesting. One possibility is that Brooklyn could take his first trip to Feudal Japan and leave with Katana accompanying him for whatever reason (possibly including that she was just in the wrong place at the wrong time). Their relationship starts off stormy, but gradually, they come to care for each other and when they return to Feudal Japan, Katana has to make a final decision about whether she wants to stay with her clan or leave with Brooklyn. The other possibility is that Brooklyn meets Katana on his first trip to Feudal Japan and they barely even like each other. He leaves, does some more traveling, mature considerably, and returns to Feudal Japan where he reunites with Katana and the two fall in love.

I actually think it's much more likely that Brooklyn makes just one visit to each of these time periods. But does anyone know for certain?
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Tue, Mar 24, 2009 10:43:55 am EDT from 146.115.115.33

@ Gorebash: You might alter the color of Gregs answers that include spoilers, so that the readers have to highlight them in order to read them. That would erase that problem.

@ Matt: ""...Demona is a forward-thinking kind of person."

Say what?!"

Demona: "Kill Humans. Kill ALL Humans. Especially: Hunters, Elisa Maza, Xanatos. Rad, so now this is done, I can go on with my shopping list."

or:

"But haven't you written a vast amount of letters which state "Die, Elisa, Die"?"
"Now. That is german, and means "Dih, Elisa, Dih."
"Somebody who speaks german can't be a bad person. Release her."
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Tue, Mar 24, 2009 10:18:16 am EDT from 84.191.198.100

Ask Jeeves> I don't mind the irrelevant questions in Ask Greg. They can be fun and often provide an opportunity for a trademark smart-ass response from Greg.
Phil - [p1anderson at go dot com]
posted @ Tue, Mar 24, 2009 9:14:35 am EDT from 69.131.42.43

Todd> Well, Greg seems to have decided to answer questions about SS-M season two, which I think is fair since the have aired in other countries and no everyone who uses Ask Greg is from the U.S. He seems to be putting spoiler warnings on his answers, which will be helpful for me and anyone else trying to avoid information about the second season episodes.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Tue, Mar 24, 2009 8:16:27 am EDT from 146.115.115.33

"...Demona is a forward-thinking kind of person."

Say what?!
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"We know of your noble race, gargoyle." -Boreas, 'The New Olympians'
posted @ Tue, Mar 24, 2009 7:55:30 am EDT from 70.237.222.14

At present, I'm still unable to see the questions on the approval page (which, by the way, is still in the old format, unlike the rest of "Ask Greg") on my computer. So I'll have to approve them while I'm logged on at the local library.

I wish that I *could* clear the "Ask Jeeves"-type questions, but until Greg Weisman gives me permission, I'll have to keep them.

Greg's answer to the first "Spectacular Spider-Man" question in the queue has given me something else to worry about: what do I do with the Season Two questions before the show airs in the U.S.? For now, I'll have to pass them (unless they break the rules in other ways), since I don't have official instructions on what to do about them.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Mar 24, 2009 7:42:56 am EDT from 4.244.212.130

Ozzie: Well, I addressed that in my comment in saying that she only felt dread at the future, since Demona is a forward-thinking kind of person. The same way it hurts when they pull needles out of you after they draw blood. It's just a theory in any case, and since it sprang out fully formed from the Athena of my overactive imagination, I unfortunately can't ask Greg. :(
Dasrik - [vm_postitnotes at yahoo dot com]
Fly at higher game
posted @ Tue, Mar 24, 2009 4:38:09 am EDT from 98.112.234.91

Gorebash: TSS-M in Canada is airing as 4:3 ratio. Although, if they're editing the intro-that's not happening here. Although not an HD channel, they generally air shows that are widescreen as widescreen programs-but not in this case.
Sadly, this past weeks episode had technical problems and we missed the first 5 minutes of the program. :-( A crucial episode too.
Wingless
posted @ Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:47:35 am EDT from 99.245.254.123

Gorebash - You asked about the aspect ratio of TSS-M earlier. I can confirm that it's 4:3 in the SD stream (not surprising). I can't check the HD stream because Comcast doesn't have Disney XD HD in my area. In fact, the channel so obscure, you'll probably have to find a satellite subscriber.

But just to clarify, TSS-M should have been 16:9 the first time around. CW corporate dropped the ball and never beamed the right video to their HD channels. I go over all the nerdy details here if anyone is interested: http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=206930

I skipped around the episodes a bit. One change: the intro has been shortened to 30 seconds. The gunshots in 'Natural Selection' (Lizard episode) are still edited out.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter feed]
posted @ Mon, Mar 23, 2009 11:13:06 pm EDT from 216.250.163.157

It seems that Demona cast a spell to restrain Owen. That spell happened to be on the same page as the spell she used to turn the people of Manhattan to stone.

In earlier versions of the script, she physically took Owen down.
Michael Ejercito - [mejercit at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Mon, Mar 23, 2009 9:12:55 pm EDT from 75.142.121.139

Selene (I think) is also the one who says "We could hunt him down for you Lord" in The Gathering, when talking to Oberon about Puck.
Rebel
posted @ Mon, Mar 23, 2009 8:28:36 pm EDT from 75.65.27.129

Todd: That thing about the Weird Sisters is also prevalent in Part Four. If memory serves, it's Selene who asks Macbeth, "You wanted vengeance for your father. Did Gillecomgain's death settle that score?" And Phoebe was the one who asked him if his own death saved his son from Canmore.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"I don't know. I'm making this up as I go." - Indiana Jones
posted @ Mon, Mar 23, 2009 8:21:22 pm EDT from 71.62.136.51

I was reading "Castle" by David Macaulay today, an excellent book about castles (how they were built, and what their purposes was), using a fictional castle in northern Wales for an example. To my surprise, the name of the castle was Aberwyvern, described as built on the Wyvern river. (And, to add to that, PBS did an animated adaptation of "Castle" many years ago; the first time that I saw "Awakening Part One", the scenes in Castle Wyvern, such as the victory banquet where Princess Katharine and her court snub the gargoyles, reminded me of it.)

There aren't any gargoyles in Macaulay's castle (not even the regular, architectural variety), and it's in Wales rather than Scotland, but it does have a slight link to the Gargoyles Universe: Edward I, who ordered it built, was also the king who took the Stone of Destiny from Scotland and brought it to Westminster Abbey, an act we'll probably be seeing in Shari's tales to Thailog in the "Gargoyles" trade paperback this summer.

I also watched "City of Stone Part One" today on DVD, and was reminded of something I'd been doing with the Weird Sisters the last time I watched "Gargoyles" all the way through: I was taking note of which Sister said what, and connecting it to the aspects that each Sister represents (Vengeance for Selene, Grace for Phoebe, Mysticism for Luna). For example, in the scene just after the fight with the bank robbers, when the Sisters speak to the gargoyles, Selene comments sharply on the head terrorist's (or maybe Demona's, or both the terrorist and Demona's) cowardice, then adds, in a not-too-enthusiastic tone, "Still, it's good that you saved her." Phoebe speaks about how precious life is, fitting her Grace role, and Luna makes the oracular pronouncement that the "she" they were speaking of was someone other than the terrorist, fitting her Mysticism role. I'll have to do more of such checking up in the other episodes (I know that it's Selene who gives Macbeth the globe that brings about Duncan's death, which would fit her Vengeance function as well).
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:51:32 pm EDT from 4.244.213.140

Gore> Has Greg ever clarified why he doesn't want to delete the "Ask Jeeves" styled questions? If that's the way he feels, then so be it, since obviously there's no Ask Greg without Greg and since he takes time out of his day to do this, he should be the one to make the rules. But I do wonder why he wouldn't want to bump questions that aren't remotely related to him, his work, or his areas of expertise.

Tony> Thank you for the warning. Since I've opted to wait to see the second season on TV rather than on the internets, I'll be skipping most of the Spidey related questions and answers for the foreseeable future.

A Thought I Just Had Today> Are there more Loch Ness monsters living in the Loch than the four we saw? If Nessie, "Big Daddy," and their two offspring are all that's left, then either the kids would have to be one of each gender and capable of breeding without their offspring having a ton of genetic defects, or no amount of protecting on the the part of the Loch Ness Clan is going to keep the monsters from eventually dying out.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:40:24 pm EDT from 146.115.115.33

Rebel: I've asked Greg about wholesale deleting of irrelevant questions or "goofball" questions several times over the last ten years. He's always said that he did not want to do that. Even after whole batches of completely goofball questions from the same person have come through.

Separating of topics, as Ed said, helps allow for easier archiving of questions. It also helps with search results being easier to handle. Instead of having to parse through 20 different questions to find the one question relevant to what you're searching for, keeping topics separate can lead to search results which include similar or follow-up questions to your own that you might have not thought of. And, again, this was a rule put in place by Greg.

In fact every guideline has been defined solely by Greg.

As for snippings, there are a lot of problems with that. You're turning moderators into editors. The original poster's post may lose context or meaning or no longer make sense. Or the core question might be removed making the rest of the post superfluous or even irrelevant, which under your proposed guidelines, would mean we delete it entirely.

There's too many complications involved with some kind of editing approach to AG questions.

What about user's editing their own work? Well I'd have to create a user management system with usernames and passwords and that can lead to a lot of other headaches. So what about a "password" option on each post (like a 2chan system) where you stick attach a password to each post then you can edit the post if you submit the right password. An interesting idea, I just worry about people trying to brute-force their way into questions they find offensive or useless or to replace a question near the top of the queue with their own.

Plus, I'd like to think that because once you post a question it's in there for good without any editing possible that people would better prepare their question. Maybe type it up in a separate text editor first or something; try and force people to better proof their work before they submit it.

What might be the way to go is include an e-mail field so that people have the option of receiving a notification if/when their post is denied. And perhaps include an option for the moderators to include a bit of text explaining why the post was denied. I worry about people sticking fake e-mail addresses in there, perhaps to try and spam someone by submitted a bunch of bad questions.. but maybe making the e-mail an option on the moderator side as well so they can not send an e-mail if it's obvious the e-mail is fake or spam... I'll think about it a bit.
Gorebash
posted @ Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:26:39 pm EDT from 70.22.191.109

Since it was brought up on a question to Greg, did anyone else here get any of The Spectacular Spider-Man figures from McDonalds? I have all except the Web Swinging Spider-Man (2nd Black Costume figure) and Venom.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Mon, Mar 23, 2009 6:10:29 pm EDT from 71.115.231.114

Rebel: I think it's perfectly appropriate to ask Greg.

My personal opinions:

I agree entirely on point (1). Although it does present difficulties, there are always a number of 'Ask Jeeves' questions which seem pretty cut and dried to me.

On (2), separate questions makes for cleaner archiving. Other than that, surely it's going to take Greg about the same time to answer 7 questions in 1 post as it would 7 questions in 7 posts? The queue would appear shorter, but wouldn't really be any shorter.

On (3), I feel like it would be a lot of trouble. You'd either need to rely on Todd to edit (making him the 'bad guy' if there's a dispute), or Gore would have to put in some kind of complex login system. As long as the queue's not too long, reposting isn't that much of a hassle. And it's right that it's incumbent upon the person posting, not the person moderating, to make sure the post is right.

Also, it comes down to a simple principle: people should have the right to have their post reach Greg uncut as long as they meet their responsibility to follow the rule. And it's a good rule: simple, clear-cut and fair.

(And this post seems like an appropriate one to thank Gore for the snazzy new look and for continuing to host and manage the site; Todd for coming back to moderating the questions for another year; and of course Greg himself if he's out there. Ask Greg is such an astonishing commitment. How long has it been now? 12 years?)
Ed
posted @ Mon, Mar 23, 2009 5:09:32 pm EDT from 213.187.38.226

I was thinking of posting this to Ask Greg but I wanted to check here first and see if it would even be appropriate. Basically, they are suggestions that I have for rule changes at Ask Greg and I wanted to throw them Greg's way and see if he agrees. Keep in mind, I'm not asking if you guys like these (the only fan whose opinion I care about in regards to whether or not these are good ideas is Todd, since it would directly affect him). I'm just asking if this is something that would be inappropriate to put in Ask Greg, whether or not you think these are good ideas. I think if these things were put into place, Ask Greg would be a better experience for everybody.

1. Give Todd the authority to delete totally irrelevant questions. As others have mentioned, sometimes people come to Ask Greg and ask general questions that have no place here. I remember once reading a question that said (paraphrased) "Am I pregnat?" Now we all know that that kind of question has no place here, so I think it would save Greg's time and shorten the que if Todd had the authority to kick those questions. I suppose one concern if this were implemented would be that it might lead to a "slippery slope" kind of situation where semi-legitimate questions get deleted because they are stupidly phrased or are not quite relevant enough, but I would say that employing a "when in doubt, pass the question along" attitude would solve this. I just don't see why those kinds of questions need to even get to Greg in the first place and waste everyone's time.

2. Allow us to post questions about multiple topics in a single question. I know that this used to be allowed, because I've seen questions from years ago with lots of questions about different topics in one post, but evidently a rule change was made at some point. Personally I think we need to go back to allowing that. If we can ask multiple questions in one post about multiple different things, then that reduces the overall number of questions that we need to ask, and thus we don't flood the que. Alternatively, if we cannot put multiple topics in a single post, then I think it should specifically state so in the guidelines on this page: http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/. I know it already says that on the "Ask a Question" page, but the first time I posted a question to Ask Greg, I missed it. I had multiple questions about multiple topics in a single post, and it got kicked, which bugged me. The only rationale I could figure out for this rule is that maybe it's easier for Greg to answer only questions about one particular topic at a time, but that doesn't make sense really since he knows all about Gargoyles (except when it comes to numbers).

3. Allow snippings. I remember once that Chip posted a lengthy review/question, and he inadvertently put an original idea in there. But, that "original idea" consisted of maybe one or two words (I think it was something like "Schezerahade?") and was obviously not intended as an original idea. Yet, his whole question (the vast majority of which was NOT an original idea) got kicked and he lost his place in the que and had to repost it. I think situations like this could be avoided if posts could be edited. All it would have taken to make Chip's question acceptable was a tiny little snip of that one word. In situations where only one small thing is making a question unacceptable, I think it would be better to remove that one small part rather than kick the whole question and make that person lose their place in line. Most long-time fans who post original ideas probably don't mean to--it's probably just an accident and they don't even realize that what they are posting could be construed as original. My only reservation about this idea is that it would be more work for Todd. I'm really not sure why the editing of questions ISN'T allowed, as I would rather have my question edited a little than removed entirely.
Rebel
posted @ Mon, Mar 23, 2009 4:37:48 pm EDT from 198.175.205.251

I very much enjoy looking at Brad Goodchild's blog, but I do wish he'd tag his entries so that I could easily find all the "Gargoyles" cels and artwork if I wanted to.

King Cobra> I know there will always be some irrelevant or otherwise unhelpful questions in the queue, but since we have a lot of new people in the Comment Room, I thought it might help to clarify how Ask Greg is used and why.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:54:08 pm EDT from 146.115.115.33

More New Olympians cels over at Brad Goodchild's blog. This time he's got a series of 4 cels showing Taurus flying along. He also says he might make it to the Gathering this year. That'd be pretty sweet.
http://thecanuckleheads.blogspot.com/
Gorebash
posted @ Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:48:11 pm EDT from 207.206.236.230

Othello> Regarding your first question, when he is being Owen, he is human; the only magic Owen can do is to change into Puck. Humans don't have issues with touching iron, so even if Owen were to brush against one, nothing would happen to him.

As to how Demona restrained Owen during the casting in the City of Stone arc... I'm not sure. I'd have to re-watch the episode to even begin to form a theory on that.

Demona's first transformation> I can see this going both ways, but I'm leaning toward Puck's meddling as the cause for Demona not suffering the intense pain the first time. It would be like him to want to see her reaction, kind of like the shows and video clips we see involving hidden cameras and odd/awkward/potentially frightening situations.

And there is probably some amount of psychosomatic suffering while she's changing from gargoyle to human... but the only way she'd suffer the same during the reverse would be if she assumed that it should hurt just as much, and that that assumption overrode any happiness/joy/pleasure she might feel from changing back to her normal form.
Kerry (Kth) Boyd
posted @ Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:19:28 pm EDT from 71.56.36.35

And be cautious for those reading the unanswered queue of questions, for there are a lot of potential Spectacular Spider-man spoilers. I did my best to mark my question as such.
Anthony Tini
posted @ Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:14:42 pm EDT from 159.240.11.254

Demonskrye> "The less time Greg spends answering questions that he's answered before, the more time he can spend giving us new information and insights and the better it is for everyone."

I agree with you.

Unfortunately, there will probably always be SOME newbie/uninformed fan/jackass-asking-irrelevant-questions/etc present there.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Mon, Mar 23, 2009 12:00:49 pm EDT from 99.54.144.47

Ask Greg> I'd like to reiterate and add a bit to what Gore has said already. "Ask Greg" is an amazing resource that any fandom would be proud to have. Through Greg's general willingness to answer most of our questions, we've gained incredible insight into the making of the TV show and comic, the world of "Gargoyles" as it is, and everything that's yet to come. But in order for "Ask Greg" to be a useful tool and an enjoyable experience for everyone, fans do need to try to be responsible about how we use it.

Greg answers our questions in his spare time, which limits the amount he can answer st any given time. Now the "Ask Greg" moderators are only allowed to delete questions that contain new ideas (see the "Ask Greg" introduction for more on this), so we usually get a few questions from confused people who believe "Ask Greg" is a source for general knowledge and want to know about lawn care or tennis tips. This really can't be avoided, but fans can help to keep the Unanswered Questions queue from becoming overly backlogged. Among the resources at your disposal are the FAQ at "Ask Greg," the "Ask Greg" archives, GargWiki, and the regular contributors here in the Comment Room. Before you submit a question to "Ask Greg," take a moment to check and see if your question could be answered through one of these resources. As I said, Greg only has so much spare time to answer questions, so any of these methods for getting your question answered is usually much faster. If you're not sure if your question has been answered already or if it meets the guidelines for an acceptable question, feel free to post it here first.

Though most of the questions on "Ask Greg" tend to be "Gargoyles" related, Greg will usually answer questions about other projects he's worked on in the past or is working on now, such as "Spectacular Spider-Man." People do also post their reactions to particular stories - episodes of a show or issues of a comic - even if they don't really contain any questions. So long as they don't include any original ideas, they will be allowed. Keep in mind that Greg doesn't like revealing "spoilers" for projects he's currently working on, so while you can ask "What is Hudson going to do in the next issue of "Gargoyles"?" or "Will Toxin ever appear on "Spectacular Spider-Man"?," you may well not get an answer.

I know this may seem like a big fuss over nothing, but a lot of us can remember a time when the Unanswered Questions queue went back YEARS. The less time Greg spends answering questions that he's answered before, the more time he can spend giving us new information and insights and the better it is for everyone.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Mon, Mar 23, 2009 11:48:33 am EDT from 146.115.115.33

Small update to Ask Greg. I noticed that the unanswered questions page was set up in such a way that approved questions awaiting an answer were not showing up. That's been changed. Now they appear on the unanswered questions page with an "approved" stamp in the upper-left corner of the question. This way you'll now know if your question disappears it's because it wasn't approved.
Gorebash
posted @ Mon, Mar 23, 2009 11:08:03 am EDT from 207.206.236.230

To anyone who catches Spidey on XD today, could you let us know if Disney is airing the show in 16:9 (widescreen) or if they're keeping it 4:3 like it aired under Kids WB.

I know at least season 2 episodes in other countries are airing in 16:9 (which is pretty sweet).
Gorebash
posted @ Mon, Mar 23, 2009 10:06:06 am EDT from 207.206.236.230

KingCobra_582 - Season 2 has already aired in Canada, Australia, and Bulgaria. It's just being held up in the US by Disney because they bid the most for the regional syndication rights.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter feed]
posted @ Mon, Mar 23, 2009 10:00:04 am EDT from 216.250.163.157

Landon Thomas> So you're telling me I have to wait until Summer now?

Ah, well, I've been patient since the last Gathering, I can be a while longer. And it's not the only Greg Weisman-related-project (You guys probably know what I'm referring to, it's something that is still in the works.) what that I'm waiting for.

You guys probably know what
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Mon, Mar 23, 2009 9:52:51 am EDT from 99.54.144.47

KingCobra_582 - Here's this week's Spectacular Spider-Man schedule: http://marvel.toonzone.net/news.php?action=fullnews&id=229

The first 3 episodes of season 1 are premiering today on TSS-M's new US network: Disney XD (formerly Toon Disney). They're going to play through all thirteen season 1 episodes first then get to season 2 this summer.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter feed]
posted @ Mon, Mar 23, 2009 9:47:12 am EDT from 216.250.163.157

@ Gore: WHAAAAAAAAAAT??... WAIT A MINUTE... these are HIS... OH MY GAWD!!!!!!1!! *faints*
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Mon, Mar 23, 2009 9:33:29 am EDT from 84.191.223.26

Been checking the satelite, but there's no sign of new Spider-man eps airing here in Ohio.

Does anyone know what the deal is with this? I thought the new episodes started today...
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Mon, Mar 23, 2009 9:03:49 am EDT from 99.54.144.47

Ask Greg is open for new questions. Please remember to read the FAQ (http://s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/faq.php), the guidelines (http://s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/index.php#guidelines) and check the archives (http://s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/archives.php) before asking your question.

I know there's an incredible amount of data in the archives and finding if a question was already answered can be difficult at times, but please try.
Gorebash
posted @ Mon, Mar 23, 2009 8:50:14 am EDT from 207.206.236.230

Demona's First Transformation > I remember hearing that the reason it didnt hurt the first time (at the end of The Mirror) was because Puck wanted to play another trick on her. So he took away the pain for that first time so she could think that she had remained a flesh and blood gargoyle through to sunrise. Then she would see that he had made her human and she would be furious at having been tricked again.

Of course, I believe that that is all cannon in training but I do remember hearing that somewhere.

I am so excited that Ask Greg reopens and we can ask questions again! I will field my own questions very carefully but I am a bit worried we will get filled with the stupid questions like 'who is sitting next to me' and 'what did I just eat' and stuff like that. Serious questions only, please! We dont want to waste anyone's time! ^_^
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Mon, Mar 23, 2009 8:34:28 am EDT from 209.243.38.9

Dasrik, nice theory but if that were true. Shouldn't she experience intense pleasure instead of pain when she turns back into a Gargoyle? Since while she hates turning into a human, she should be happy when she's turning back into a gargoyle.
Ozzie Arcane - [ozziearcane at yahoo dot com]
"Hello Booby! This is a trap!" - Eggplant Wizard
posted @ Mon, Mar 23, 2009 8:14:49 am EDT from 69.14.122.91

Kris: One charitable thing Xanatos did do early on in the series was 'donate' the Eye of Odin to the city of New York, only to steal it back later in the episode "The Edge;" he himself remarks despite stealing it, the city still owes him a favor for donating it.

Beyond that, I don't think so/don't remember. **shrugs**
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Mon, Mar 23, 2009 4:54:56 am EDT from 157.242.220.247

Hi folks. Been quite some time since I posted here. How's it going?

I'm here because I have a theory to posit. Demona's transformation to human and back to gargoyle are very painful. It has been said this is because Puck has a strange sense of humor. But if that's so, what about the first time? Demona just talks about the sun like nothing happens. You'd think she'd notice the excruciating pain?

I have my own theory on why this is.

It has been said that pain results from your judgment on a feeling, that it should not be happening. The theory is, if you can perceive a sensation as simply what it is, and not feel that you shouldn't be feeling it, it becomes merely a sensation and not something to endure. This is a practice that requires a great deal of faith.

Demona hates humans. The knowledge that she is becoming human is what causes the pain; in other words, it's all in her head, but is nevertheless real to her because she is becoming something she hates. And in the transformation back, she cannot feel relief; she can only anticipate the next time it happens.

Anyway, that is my theory and I put it out there for discussion.
Dasrik - [vm_postitnotes at yahoo dot com]
Fly at higher game
posted @ Mon, Mar 23, 2009 4:54:44 am EDT from 98.112.234.91

Gargoyles is still taking place in late 1996 currently, so there is no "War on Terror" for them yet (and who knows if Greg will incorporate that part of history into the Gargoyles universe, though I suppose it would make sense to since World War 2 and other recent North America-involving events counted). Do we know for sure from anything Greg W. has said that Xanatos will even be alive in 2002 and beyond ? I know he'll still be young by then, but something COULD happen to him (which would be pretty awful for his character, obsessed with immortality as he is...not to mention leaving the son and wife behind, plus the Gargoyles are likely better off with him around than without him and he IS the reason the Manhattan clan isn't still collecting moss).

Dunno if he'd offer cybernetic parts for wounded vets. Have we seen him do charitable deeds before ? Or at least APPEAR to do very public, charitable things for the general population that were to his advantage in other ways ?
Kris - [plekopleko at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Mon, Mar 23, 2009 4:37:16 am EDT from 69.17.187.216

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