One of the disadvantages that Gargoyles have in the "technology race" is that they're stone during the day. I think Greg said at a panel once that this was no problem before the Bronze Age, but once humans figured out how to better forge metals, we had things that could smash stone easier.

I think that given enough time, gargoyles might become tech-savvy, but humans were able to advance faster in that field, and because of that, most of the surviving gargoyles in the world had to remain reclusive in order for their species to survive.

But even during the times that humans and gargoyles lived together, I wonder how much of a monopoly the human race held on technology. I'm sure there were gargoyles who wanted to learn how things worked, but most of the time, they probably couldn't find humans willing to teach them. And we also don't know what percentage of the gargoyle race could even read at that point. Heck, even among humans, literacy was something usually only found in the upper classes (nobility, aristocracy, the church, etc.) until Gutenberg made a way for books to be mass-produced.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order, and everything becomes chaos. I'm an agent of chaos. Oh, and you know the thing about chaos? It's fair!" -The Joker
posted @ Sun, Apr 26, 2009 7:21:07 pm EDT from 76.123.51.219

Do you have a link to the chameleon gene theory? A search only brings up references to it, even as far back as 2001, without a full explanation.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter feed]
posted @ Sat, Apr 25, 2009 11:16:11 pm EDT from 75.168.246.155

Landon > Actually, you've got it backwards. Standing upright led to the ability to use tools with the now freed-up hands. The dominant theory is that man's ancestors stood upright because a primate that can see over tall grass can avoid predators much better than one walking on all fours through it. It was climate change that led to the African forests shrinking and the grasslands expanding, and it was that resulting change in habitat that led to man's ancestors standing upright. Once they were bipedal, the hands were freed for other tasks, including the making and usage of tools.
Patrick - [<-- Gathering 2009]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Sat, Apr 25, 2009 9:04:44 pm EDT from 76.205.100.110

Landon> There are examples of bipedal species that have grasping hands and still don't use tools. Some species of lemurs for example, kangaroos, and many therapod dinosaurs.

For all we know, gargoyles were predominantly quadrapedal until humans came along and then Greg's Chameleon Mutation Gene came into effect and began to make them more bipedal. But still, I can't think of a gargoyle in the series that had significant screen time that didn't run on all fours at some point.

And for the record, I am coming around to the idea that gargoyles used some simple tools, but never needed to advance much beyond those tools. They were at one point quite successful just where they were technologically and biologically.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"I hide in plain sight. The demons do it all the time." - John Castaway, 'Estranged'
posted @ Sat, Apr 25, 2009 8:42:13 pm EDT from 70.237.195.229

Matt - I had a much longer post about walking upright, but decided to just be blunt. The ostrich example doesn't really apply because ostriches don't have prehensile limbs other than their feet. The human example is significant because humans used to walk on all fours then evolved to walk upright so they could use their hands for grasping. Why? Tools. Human bipedalism has many disadvantages: high center of gravity over a small area, slow rate of speed, increased back trauma, etc. The only reason to evolve from all fours to standing up is because you want to use your front feet for grasping. Humans took that one step further and started using hand-held objects as tools.

Demonskrye - "Once it became clear that humans were having great success as a species through developing tools and building and creating, I think gargoyles would have had to have made a decision at some point not to go in that direction themselves"

No creature gets to choose new evolutionary traits. They acquire them gradually because that trait leads to increased survival. Gargoyles would only have developed the energy-intensive brain and awkward bipedalism required for tool-use because of a very specific and survivalist need. We can only speculate what that need was, but we do know that they spent the significant evolutionary karma necessary to acquire it.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter feed]
posted @ Sat, Apr 25, 2009 8:23:42 pm EDT from 75.168.246.155

You've also got to keep in mind that early gargoyles may not have had as much need to develop tools as early humans did. Why fashion flint knives or stone spears when your own natural talons are sharp and strong enough to leave marks in stone itself? Cold doesn't affect them much and raw meat may be perfectly acceptable to them, so no need to fashion clothing or build fires. Shelter? Even as late as the tenth century, gargoyles were living on cliffs or the exterior towers of castles, so making their own shelter doesn't seem to be a priority for the species.

Maybe just as the African Bushmen represent the exception to humanity's general trend toward technological advancement, technologically inclined gargoyles are gargoyle clans are only a tiny minority in the species. Just because humans are inclines to technological progress doesn't mean that every sapient species on the planet would be as well.

I think it's plausible that gargoyles were not very technologically advanced before humans came along and started demonstrating what could be accomplished through invention. Once it became clear that humans were having great success as a species through developing tools and building and creating, I think gargoyles would have had to have made a decision at some point not to go in that direction themselves, though I don't know if it would necessarily mean that they felt lack of technology made them superior. I wouldn't be adverse to the idea though, as I don't want to see the whole gargoyle species portrayed as gentle, wise, saintly creatures who made all the right decisions and only failed to survive in the long run because they were victimized by humans. Anyway, prior to humans introducing building and invention to the world on a major scale, I think it's plausible that gargoyles would not have developed in this way simply because they never felt the need to.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Sat, Apr 25, 2009 7:49:06 pm EDT from 146.115.115.33

Landon> While I generally agree with your last couple posts on this subject, I have to say that I disagree that "the only reason to walk upright is to use tools." Ostriches walk upright, but don't use tools. And besides, we see gargoyles on all fours or hunched over quite often. If anything, it is their claws themselves that are their tools. using them for climbing or hunting or whatever has led them to occasionally walk upright and eventually some walk upright more often than not.

The ironic thing is that Lexington, the gargoyle we've seen most inclined to tool use (outside of Hudson and his sword), is the gargoyle most often seen walking on all fours.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"I hide in plain sight. The demons do it all the time." - John Castaway, 'Estranged'
posted @ Sat, Apr 25, 2009 7:48:11 pm EDT from 70.237.195.229

Patrick - "Given enough time, perhaps not all gargoyle clans would progress toward a higher level of technology, but the probability is there that at least one would."

Maybe those clans died off. Before you can invent significant technology, you need to create societies larger than a clan. That provides the communal protection that allows complex thought to flourish. But if the entire populace turns to stone every night, communal safety is worthless. You're best chance for survival is in small roving bands that can hide easily. Hence gargoyles have evolved to a state of superb natural survival but poor knowledge development.

Patrick - "The big thing I'm getting between the lines of this discussion is there's a sense out there that gargoyles must consciously resist technological progress because it runs counter to some instinct... and that somehow that makes them "better" than humans."

I don't think that makes gargoyles better, just different. On the contrary, I think intellectual curiosity and a drive for exploration are the two noblest and most universal human qualities, but rarely found in gargoyles.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter feed]
posted @ Sat, Apr 25, 2009 7:38:02 pm EDT from 75.168.246.155

The same could be said for Native Americans. They could have certainly built big ships and brick homes like the English, but it wasn't part of their spiritual beliefs and culture to be bothered with taking that road. I think that is how Gargoyles fit into the scheme of things. When the settlers came, the Native Americans certainly did take and use some of the settler's things...they began to ride horses, use guns. But still in their own way, not the same as the settlers. And certainly didn't adopt all of the settlers' ways. Much as some gargoyles choose to use weapons and some prefer hand-to-hand. Goliath certainly prefers hand-to-hand, but he has proven he is skilled in arms as well. Its a matter of preference. Both for each individual tribe/clan and even each individual person.
Siren
posted @ Sat, Apr 25, 2009 7:29:33 pm EDT from 72.188.139.212

The Bushmen in relation to all humanity are what one clan would be to all of the gargoyle species. Some human societies have progressed much farther than others, but homo sapiens sapiens have only been on the planet for what amounts to the blink of an eye in comparison to the history of life on earth. Given enough time, perhaps not all gargoyle clans would progress toward a higher level of technology, but the probability is there that at least one would.

The big thing I'm getting between the lines of this discussion is there's a sense out there that gargoyles must consciously resist technological progress because it runs counter to some instinct... and that somehow that makes them "better" than humans.
Patrick - [<-- Gathering 2009]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Sat, Apr 25, 2009 7:18:41 pm EDT from 76.205.100.110

I agree that gargoyles must have developed tools. The only reason to walk upright is to use tools. But that doesn't mean gargoyles couldn't exist in a state of primitive technology for millennia. Look at the African Bushmen. They are hunter-gathers that never reached the agriculture stage of human development. They invented tools, fire, clothes, cooking and that's it. They're 100% human and are no less intelligent than any of us, but never bothered to invent modern technology. Gargoyles found/evolved a need for basic tools and once that need was met, didn't bother to discover anything further. They had the ability to invent space travel, just like the Bushmen do, but had no cultural desire for it.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter feed]
posted @ Sat, Apr 25, 2009 6:39:52 pm EDT from 75.168.246.155

I've noticed that Greg doesn't often respond well to "mega-post" questions. He tends to be much more revealing when he can answer with a single word or sentence.

With that in mind, I did submit a question about whether he meant gargates or gargoyles themselves originated on Pangea. When he answers that, we can move on accordingly. We'll have to wait and see.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"I hide in plain sight. The demons do it all the time." - John Castaway, 'Estranged'
posted @ Sat, Apr 25, 2009 1:06:04 pm EDT from 70.237.195.229

I've not really been following this discussion, but I'd totally appreciate it if somebody asks Greg in a mega-post about this and updates it all to the Gargwiki. :)

Cause there are some really, really interresting things in there.
Brook
I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!
posted @ Sat, Apr 25, 2009 5:35:13 am EDT from 84.191.207.157

I'll admit, gargoyles perhaps used rudimentary tools before humans. Maybe simple clubs or something, but I do think that their social and physical environment was probably enough to explain the rise to sapience. Maybe it wasn't entirely akin to human intelligence, but I think it was there and it was pretty sophisticated among the animal kingdom until humans came along and really started playing the brain-game. At that point gargoyle intelligence advanced a bit to what we have in modern times. Both interations with humans (language/naming/tool use) and humans being the first real threat to gargoyles certainly had an impact.

My point is that even if gargoyles have been around for 100 million years, I can not see a point where they would develop any tools as advanced as an automobile or skyscraper or spaceship. It isn't their nature. They are territorial to the extreme. Where would they need to go that their wings couldn't take them. What shelter would they need to build that stone sleep and natural caves couldn't provide them. And why would they have any desire to enter space.

I see humans as explorers and gargoyles as homebodies. Generally speaking.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"I hide in plain sight. The demons do it all the time." - John Castaway, 'Estranged'
posted @ Fri, Apr 24, 2009 9:19:15 pm EDT from 70.237.192.186

But many animals have dynamic social skills and predatory inclinations, but they haven't developed sapience. I suppose they COULD, over a long enough time span, but I doubt it.

I can easily see why humans needed to develop sapience. But I can't see why a gargoyle, who is chock-full of natural weapons, would need to become sapient. The only think I can figure is that maybe there was a mutation in gargoyles that caused sapience, and that mutation ended up surviving and getting passed down more often because a sapient gargoyle was even more effective than a non-sapient one.

I'll really like some more information from Greg about this.

By the way, when most people say "sentience" they really mean "sapience."
Rebel
posted @ Fri, Apr 24, 2009 9:09:35 pm EDT from 75.66.1.136

No, I think it was the dynamic social skills and predatory inclinations that led to gargoyle intelligence.

Greg has even postulated the theory that before humanity came along, gargoyles might not have talked much or at all.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"I hide in plain sight. The demons do it all the time." - John Castaway, 'Estranged'
posted @ Fri, Apr 24, 2009 8:47:32 pm EDT from 70.237.192.186

Your argument is logically flawed. Human-like intelligence does not arise spontaneously in a species that lives in harmony with nature. The need to make tools is what drives natural selection in favor of bigger brains. If primitive gargoyles must have been not thinking and attempting to manipulate the world around them, or they would not have given rise to modern gargoyles that can speak and interact with the big-brained apes that walked out of Africa and took over their world.
Patrick - [<-- Gathering 2009]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Fri, Apr 24, 2009 8:35:03 pm EDT from 173.88.153.112

First post in a while, this conversation just drew me back in, lol.

I wonder if we should ask Greg for clarification. It makes more sense to me that he meant that gargates evolved on Pangea, not the existing gargoyles species. But I could be wrong.

Either way, I think gargoyles have been around a long time and gargates as a whole much longer. Why didn't they develop a space-faring civilization as humans are attempting to?

Well, keep in mind that gargoyles are not humans with wings. Gargoyles are gargoyles. They, as a species, are incredibly attuned to the Earth. They exist in the natural world. Their lives are governed by the heartbeats of the natural order.

On the other hand, humans survive by defying the natural world. We don't have thick skin or fur, so we build fires. We cannot claw through a prey animal, so we develop weapons. We cannot lift boulders, so we invent machines that can. We cannot glide, so we create aircraft. Humans are toolbuilders. It is part of who we are and what has caused us to prosper. This tool-making led us into space.

Gargoyles exist as part of the natural world. Until humans came along, they didn't use names or make tools or wear clothes. In contrast, humans attempt to modify or seperate themselves from the natural world. This is probably the single biggest difference between the two species.

So, I think that adequately explains why gargoyles, despite their longevity on Earth, have not developed space-travel. And besides, even if they did, they'd have issues away from Earth. There is a reason only Demona and Zafiro join Nokkar in space in 2198.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"I hide in plain sight. The demons do it all the time." - John Castaway, 'Estranged'
posted @ Fri, Apr 24, 2009 7:52:37 pm EDT from 70.237.192.186

Patric:<If gargoyles had existed for 200 million years in their current form as evolved, intelligent, beings capable of complex thought, their civilization would have covered the entire planet before the first ape ever stood upright on the African Savannah. One might even expect them to have become a space-faring race and colonized other worlds by now.>

Technology doesn't advance in a linear fashion. Gargoyles could have advanced and thenfallen back many times, just like humans have over our brief history. It's arrogant to assume a linear progression of technological development in any species
Vinnie - [tpeano29 at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Fri, Apr 24, 2009 3:42:49 pm EDT from 69.54.209.21

Also, which came first? The Gargoyle or the egg?
Anthony Tini
posted @ Fri, Apr 24, 2009 11:38:41 am EDT from 159.240.11.254

Just to facilitate discussion a little, here's a list - by no means necessarily complete - of what I believe to be the relevant questions concerning the origins of the gargoyle species:

When approximately did Pangaea start to fragment into separate continents?

Aside from already being present on the land mass before it broke off from Pangaea, is there any way that gargoyles could be found living on every modern continent (not every continent in modern times) except Antarctica, given that they cannot cross large bodies of water and are not believed to have built boats or traveled in boats with humans for the purposes of relocation?

Were the gargoyles present on Pangaea modern gargoyles or a primitive ancestor of the gargoyles we know today? (Again, I think that the evolution of gargoyles and gargoyle beasts from their common gargate ancestor, would have needed to occur before the breakup of Pangaea, since the two species evolving from the one identically in geographically isolated locations all over the world seems implausible. They might have been primitive gargoyles and gargoyle beasts, but the split would have to take place prior to the end of Pangaea as a supercontinent.)

Is it plausible that modern gargoyles could have existed since the time of Pangaea without becoming far more advanced that the humans who did not appear on Earth until much later? Is it plausible that humans became the dominant species on Earth despite gargoyles being much more well established? Is there a reason that gargoyles might not have competed with early humans for resources?

Are there possible explanations for why gargoyles were not as successful as humans in the long run? Could they have been limited by their great need for resources and their relatively low birth rate? Could their intelligence and larger brain size have been a later adaptation? After all, if gargoyles were good hunters and virtually invincible during the day prior to humans developing tools that could shatter stone, why would they need to be any smarter than the average big predator?
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Fri, Apr 24, 2009 9:12:37 am EDT from 146.115.115.33

Why did humans develop an intellect while other large land animals remained dumb? You could argue that other apes like neanderthals did start to get smart, but couldn't make the evolutionary cut. But why is the gift of sentience restricted to apes?

If we're assuming a Gargoyles universe, we're assuming that at least two sentient species somehow evolved on earth at the same time. But why assume gargoyles evolved at the same pace as humans or even on the same geological time scale? One possible explanation: for millennia gargoyles were a wise, peaceful species but not sentient. It wasn't until humans came along did gargoyles replicate their higher-order thinking; humans were the gargoyle Obelisk. Even though gargoyles seem very anthropomorphized in 994, they're still a different species and maybe their human-like qualities are artificial: they had to act like humans to survive.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter feed]
posted @ Fri, Apr 24, 2009 12:40:48 am EDT from 75.168.249.252

I think Patrick is right. Which leads me to believe that Greg misinterpreted my question. I don't doubt that some primitive ancestor of Gargoyles certainly existed on Pangeae, but you could say the same thing about humans, and in fact any other species.

What I wanted to know is specifically which continent Gargoyles themselves arose upon. Humans (correct me if I'm wrong) arose in Africa--not just primitive ancestors of humans (although those arose there too), but humans relatively close to modern humans. I didn't want to know where some primitive ancestor arose, but where modern (or some semblance thereof) gargoyles arose.

If Gargoyles had existed way back when Pangea was around, and had existed in a form more-or-less like their modern form, sapience included, they would certainly dominate the planet.

Unless of course some kind of plague or natural disaster largely decimated the gargoyle population recently but left the humans unaffected, allowing humans to get a foothold on the planet.
Rebel
posted @ Thu, Apr 23, 2009 9:06:48 pm EDT from 75.66.1.136

Actually, gargoyles don't even give a shit about money. And that seems more a natural tendency than anything else.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order, and everything becomes chaos. I'm an agent of chaos. Oh, and you know the thing about chaos? It's fair!" -The Joker
posted @ Thu, Apr 23, 2009 9:00:46 pm EDT from 76.123.51.219

Well, as we can see now, that was a poor decision. In the human / gargoyle arms race, the gargoyles lost because they didn't keep up. But what I'm saying is that if an intelligent species was around way before humans, odds are they'd be the dominant species on the planet and humans wouldn't even exist. The only way the status quo makes sense is if gargoyles and humams evolved their big brains at nearly the same time.

When species are competing for the same resources, even a minor lag in development can be evolutionarily fatal. There's a reason you only see Neanderthals in Geico commercials.
Patrick - [<-- Gathering 2009]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Thu, Apr 23, 2009 8:49:43 pm EDT from 173.88.153.112

Most gargoyles don't seem that interested in technology (except for Lexington, of course), and seem content to let the humans work on it. Perhaps not surprising, since they're stronger than humans, have natural weaponry that humans don't have, etc. - they probably saw no need to develop it.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, Apr 23, 2009 8:08:38 pm EDT from 4.244.210.240

I never said they had to be sentient. Just a more primitive version.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order, and everything becomes chaos. I'm an agent of chaos. Oh, and you know the thing about chaos? It's fair!" -The Joker
posted @ Thu, Apr 23, 2009 8:04:49 pm EDT from 76.123.51.219

If gargoyles had existed for 200 million years in their current form as evolved, intelligent, beings capable of complex thought, their civilization would have covered the entire planet before the first ape ever stood upright on the African Savannah. One might even expect them to have become a space-faring race and colonized other worlds by now.
Patrick - [<-- Gathering 2009]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Thu, Apr 23, 2009 7:55:18 pm EDT from 173.88.153.112

Actually, there's some logic to Greg's comment. Gargoyles were the first race, before humans came on the scene, so it would stand to reason that the first gargates might have appeared while the earth was young.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order, and everything becomes chaos. I'm an agent of chaos. Oh, and you know the thing about chaos? It's fair!" -The Joker
posted @ Thu, Apr 23, 2009 7:07:49 pm EDT from 76.123.51.219

Is it likely that gargoyles may have evolved from dinosaurs?
Kendal E. Renfro - [kendal dot renfro at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Thu, Apr 23, 2009 6:53:52 pm EDT from 209.235.111.116

Landon> That's true. I'm mainly thinking about Australia, since we know there were gargoyles there and it's the most isolated of the continents where gargoyles lived. I don't recall how long ago Australia separated from all other land masses, but given that it's unique fauna have been attributed to the fact life there evolved without much influence from anywhere else, I'm guessing it was quite a while ago.

I'm tempted to say that it was an ancestor of the modern gargoyle that emerged on Pangaea, but I figure it would have had to have been at some point after gargates became the two different species gargoyles and gargoyle beasts, as I can't see how the two species would evolve in numerous separate dispersed populations.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Thu, Apr 23, 2009 12:00:45 pm EDT from 146.115.115.33

Demonskrye - During the last ice age, the sea level was low enough to reveal a land bridge between Russia and Alaska. That's how some scientists think Asian-looking Eskimos and other native Americans emigrated to the new world before colonization. I'm not saying there weren't gargoyles spread around Pangaea (assuming Greg wasn't joking). But there could have been several continental gargoyle migrations afterwards since ice ages are cyclical.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter feed]
posted @ Thu, Apr 23, 2009 11:01:44 am EDT from 128.101.32.234

SLG is still set on July and August release dates for Gargoyles: http://slg-news.livejournal.com/332792.html It looks like TRON is getting its trade as well. On that note, Disney is the most profitable purveyor of licensed material, by far: http://www.licensing.biz/news/3054/Disney-is-top-global-licensor
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter feed]
posted @ Thu, Apr 23, 2009 10:40:29 am EDT from 128.101.32.234

I would take Greg's Pangea commment as being both funny and lazy.
Anthony Tini
posted @ Thu, Apr 23, 2009 9:52:14 am EDT from 159.240.11.254

I wish you the best denis +hug+
Dan - [vodocius at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Thu, Apr 23, 2009 9:11:25 am EDT from 205.188.117.67

Pangaea> On the other hand, the modern crocodile is believe to be virtually the same as crocodiles that lived 200 million years ago. So if the creatures that emerged on Pangaea were pretty much the same as modern gargoyles, it's not completely unprecedented. My guess is that gargoyles first appearing on Pangaea is an attempt to explain how the species ended up on every continent in the world except for Antarctica when they cannot fly across large bodies of water and don't seem very inclined towards building boats or rafts.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Thu, Apr 23, 2009 8:55:49 am EDT from 146.115.115.33

I haven't been around lately. But looking over things I wanted to say sorry to hear about your loss Denis.
Ozzie Arcane - [ozziearcane at yahoo dot com]
"Hello Booby! This is a trap!" - Eggplant Wizard
posted @ Thu, Apr 23, 2009 7:54:20 am EDT from 69.14.122.91

Today is Shakespeare's birthday. Here's hoping that Greg will someday be able to publicly (as in, through new stories) bring more of Shakespeare's characters into the Gargoyles Universe. (I still hope that Falstaff will show up in the last third of "Bad Guys", when the trade paperback comes out in August.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, Apr 23, 2009 7:34:07 am EDT from 4.244.210.216

If so, that'd make gargoyles the largest animals to survive the mass extinction event that wiped out the dinosaurs 65 million years ago. That's also asking us to believe that the species could remain unchanged for 250 million years. Given what we know of the way humans and other modern animal species arose, that seems... highly unlikely.

It's more probably that the early evolutionary ancestors of gargoyles were no more similar to modern gargoyles than the early mammals that scampered away from T-Rex were in comparison to modern humans.
Patrick - [<-- Gathering 2009]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Thu, Apr 23, 2009 6:59:36 am EDT from 173.88.153.112

**De-lurks**

In an attempt to see a more live and maybe even happier room before the crickets takeover, I must admit I was rather fascinated by Greg's recent answer to Rebel's question regarding the location of Gargoyles' origins, which turns out to be Pangaea.

According to Wikipedia, the most recent supercontinent existed well over 250,000,000 years ago . . . and compared to Humanity's beginnings to be some 200,000 years ago, it's quite clear gargoyles are ancient.

It really does help put into perspective that while a gargoyle's biology may seem detrimental to its own species in today's world -- from the stone sleep to the longtime it takes to procreate -- it was clearly successful for quite some time.

I'm actually quite curious to know the corresponding dates for the Third Race and even the Lost Race (though I doubt Greg would mention much about the later).

** All numbers quickly pulled from Wikipedia **
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Thu, Apr 23, 2009 3:10:34 am EDT from 157.242.211.133

Laurie> I would not assume that the experience you had at one store represents companywide policy. Both my husband and I used to work at a Toys R Us and we have friends who still work there, so I'll thank you not to condemn the entire company because of a bad experience you had with one manager at one store.

Landon> I'm guessing the reason Disney isn't pushing SS-M as hard as Aaron Stone is that Aaron Stone is (I believe) a wholly owned Disney property which they developed from the ground up to target the audience they're hoping to get with Disney XD, while SS-M debuted on a different network and is not completely owned by Disney. Plus, it's currently still in reruns from the KidsWB run, so they may be waiting until the new episodes air to push it harder.

I wish Disney would promote SS-M more too, but I don't think there's any kind of underlying conspiracy about why they're constantly talking up Aaron Stone to the press, just business as usual.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Wed, Apr 22, 2009 9:25:37 am EDT from 146.115.115.33

The truth behind the Aaron Stone marketing blitz comes out: Disney is grooming the lead actor to be the next Zac Efron: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124037282589442487.html I know, who cares. But it hints at why Disney XD isn't pushing TSS-M.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter feed]
posted @ Wed, Apr 22, 2009 2:13:27 am EDT from 97.116.181.165

That's probably the most randomly off-topic comment I've seen in here in almost a week.
Patrick - [<-- Gathering 2009]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Tue, Apr 21, 2009 10:27:02 pm EDT from 173.88.153.112

Just want to post a comment about how UNPROFESSIONAL TOYS R US is when it comes to there hiring practices. Rebecca in the clifton park store jerked my daughter around for three weeks saying that she had a job for her. Then at some point decided not to hire her but didn't have the common courtesy to let her know that. I just want to know if there is any professionalism left in the world?I guess what goes around comes around and hopefully ther will come a day when Rebecca knows what it feels like.
Laurie - [Lauriekdcjk at hotmail dot com]
Laurie
posted @ Tue, Apr 21, 2009 5:46:32 pm EDT from 67.240.74.153

DENIS> I'm so sorry to hear about your loss. My father is currently suffering from lung cancer so I sympathize. :( My condolences to you and your family.
Penumbra - [spiralvapor at gmail dot com]
posted @ Tue, Apr 21, 2009 5:20:46 am EDT from 74.60.20.254

DENIS> Sorry for your loss. My Grandpa had Lung Cancer and I know whet he went through, so I feel for you.

I am back from Paris Via London. *YAWN* Been up for 34 hours (And I took the time to post!)

Notre Dame was awesome, so was London at 3 AM London Time. More details later.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:37:49 pm EDT from 75.156.190.146

DENIS - I'm also sorry to hear about your loss.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Apr 20, 2009 6:51:49 pm EDT from 4.244.210.152

Denis> Sorry to hear that. :(
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Mon, Apr 20, 2009 11:03:39 am EDT from 99.54.145.71

Bianca Louise Lapuz> Since Season 2 of Spider-man has not yet officially began to run in the US, please place SPOILER tags before future posts. Thanks.

Denis> My condolences.

Siren> Cool site, thanks for the link. (I can't view your pictures at work, so I'll check them out later.)

10
Anthony Tini
posted @ Mon, Apr 20, 2009 9:18:56 am EDT from 159.240.11.254

I already watched season 1 and season 2...but I really really really need to watch even just 1 episode in season 3!!! I wish Black Cat and Spiderman become friends again and work as a team...And I wish Sandman would join Spiderman and Black Cat in fighting villians and stuff...It would be nice if Spiderman and Black Cat were fighting someone unstoppable and that villian will kill them already then suddenly Sandman saves them from their near death!!! That is so cool to watch!!!I do hope you add this idea in the show...
Bianca Louise Lapuz
posted @ Mon, Apr 20, 2009 9:01:49 am EDT from 203.111.236.14

Denis> I'm sorry about the loss. *hug*

Siren> Congratulations!

8
Asatira
posted @ Mon, Apr 20, 2009 8:58:43 am EDT from 68.190.20.172

I'm truly sorry, Denis.
Brook
I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!
posted @ Mon, Apr 20, 2009 5:33:30 am EDT from 84.191.215.111

I am very sorry for your loss Denis. My condolences and thoughts to you and your family.

-----------

I got back from the FX convention today and it was the best convention I've ever been to. Met Jonathan Frakes. Great and nice guy. He was VERY happy to see me bring my DVD to him. I only had him sign my Season 2 DVD, as that is the one I had Marina sign. He told me how much he enjoyed doing the voice. And we talked briefly about how we both wished Disney would get off their butts and do something with the show and maybe even do that movie.

Here is a pic of him and my DVD
http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/66/l_15b0ee52e25b4d1ba5af978266be0280.jpg

http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/92/l_7e14b4be59db4c07adc9db86b419bd33.jpg

I also won the costume contest for Best Fantasy :) Here is my costume...wait till you see me next year though when I have my gargoyle beast costume!
http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/112/l_ec4d83799ba7466d8016558d36cce9a9.jpg

I didn't make that costume and neither will I make the gargoyle beast one. I design them with the help of the costume maker http://www.beastcub.com
Siren
posted @ Mon, Apr 20, 2009 2:33:47 am EDT from 72.188.139.212

It is with a heavy heart that I must announce you that my father passed away after a year long fight with a lung cancer.

He passed away in his sleep at five am, central european time.
Denis - [quinceyfordersl at gmail dot com]
He's fire and ice and rage. He's like the night, and the storm in the heart of the sun
posted @ Mon, Apr 20, 2009 1:54:00 am EDT from 87.65.182.70

(4th)Fourth!!!!
Vinnie - [tpeano29 at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Mon, Apr 20, 2009 1:44:41 am EDT from 69.54.209.20

Third
Rebel
posted @ Mon, Apr 20, 2009 12:37:28 am EDT from 75.66.1.136

Second.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"I can face her. I just can't beat her." -Hudson ("Long Way to Morning")
posted @ Mon, Apr 20, 2009 12:27:20 am EDT from 76.123.51.219

First!
Spen
"What if this wasn't a hypothetical question?"
posted @ Mon, Apr 20, 2009 12:01:15 am EDT from 66.43.205.110