Comment Room Archive : Gargoyles : Station Eight

Heh, the cel of Goliath, Angela, and Bronx waking up from "Sanctuary" is a few frames away from the one I own.

Have a great time in England, Litwolf! I've been twice before and had a wonderful time on both trips. On the second one, we got to see "Macbeth" performed at the Globe after both studying it in English class and seeing "City Of Stone," which left me very attached to the play and thrilled to see it performed live.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Sun, Jun 7, 2009 6:04:18 pm EDT from 146.115.115.33

Have fun, Litwolf!
Rebel
posted @ Sun, Jun 7, 2009 5:52:21 pm EDT from 75.64.82.164

Landon > Whoa, nice. If I had the money to spend, I would totally get one. Probably a Bronx one, he's so cute :)

Well guys, I am off on a three week summer program with my school to England and Ireland. Its all about landscapes in literature. Maybe Ill catch a glance of the London Clan during my travels :D Before I left, I checked in with my comic book store and preordered both trades! Im glad Ill be getting back in time to get Clan Building #2.

Anyway, see you all in three weeks!
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Sun, Jun 7, 2009 3:07:13 pm EDT from 68.37.142.158

There's a live auction tomorrow selling a number of Gargoyles production cels and drawings: http://live.universal-collectibles.com/p_ds/Default.aspx?sid=email&d=event&eid=714&Page=1 I can't vouch for them or their products, but from what I've seen they have the largest collection of Gargoyles cels currently available.

I got my cel from these folks: http://www.vegalleries.com/ They did a fantastic restoration and mat job for cheap, but they haven't put up another Gargoyles cel since. I'm skeptical about how Universal puts a fake Disney-esque blue border around all their cels. It makes wonder how they've been processed.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]
posted @ Sun, Jun 7, 2009 12:26:27 pm EDT from 216.250.163.157

@ BattleBeast: http://andykaufmanlives.com/

It's on the web, so it must be true. :)
Brook
I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!
posted @ Sun, Jun 7, 2009 11:40:13 am EDT from 84.191.247.178

Uh... Andy Kaufman is alive? News to me...
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Sun, Jun 7, 2009 11:21:00 am EDT from 75.156.190.146

@ Greg: Ah, thanks for the info. :)

@ Battle Beast: Wikipedia really is not the best source. I mean, they still list Andy Kaufman as deceased...

Very Off Topic: People - pic up a thing called SEAGUY. Just do it! ;) ;) Very good stuff, and a nice, uhm... "parody on a world concern that started with animated films on nice cute animals and later did a show about some guys who were more scary and from the middle ages"...
Brook
I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!
posted @ Sun, Jun 7, 2009 6:52:25 am EDT from 84.191.212.24

The truth about wikipedia:

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/72347/july-31-2006/the-word---wikiality
Anonymous
posted @ Sun, Jun 7, 2009 2:20:24 am EDT from 74.63.221.234

Crap.

"then you probably have to pay everyone at the union scale rate" should have read "then you probably have to pay everyone at the higher rate"

Sorry, for any confusion. That'll teach me not to proofread.
Greg Weisman
The Spectacular Spider-Man, Season Two, premiering on DisneyXD on June 22nd, 2009!
posted @ Sun, Jun 7, 2009 1:55:19 am EDT from 68.183.95.134

Battle Beast - Wikipedia only has the story partially right. The truth is WAY more complicated than what you've reposted here. Dan was hand-picked by Robin to be his replacement. So don't believe everything you read on Wikipedia.

Demonskyre - A production ALWAYS has the option to pay an actor MORE than union scale. Trouble is, most actors only agree to union scale with something called a "Favored Nations" clause, meaning that they get paid equal to whomever is getting the highest fee. So if you hire someone who insists on more than union scale (actually, it's usually scale + 10% so that the agent's fee doesn't come out of the actor's fee, and on most series, they get a ten episode buyout too), then you probably have to pay everyone at the union scale rate. That's a budget buster for most productions. You get two characters for the price of one. That's a union rule too. But Jennifer is correct, that it doesn't matter whether the actor has one word or a hundred. You get them for a four hour session for the same flat fee. A third character can be added for a small additional fee. A fourth character starts the process over. If you have an actor playing four characters, you have to pay him or her twice.
Greg Weisman
The Spectacular Spider-Man, Season Two, premiering on DisneyXD on June 22nd, 2009!
posted @ Sun, Jun 7, 2009 1:53:46 am EDT from 68.183.95.134

Disney screwed Robin Williams over. That's why he was not in Aladdin II.

(From the WIKIPEDIA)

In gratitude for his success with the Disney/Touchstone film Good Morning, Vietnam, Robin Williams voiced the Genie for SAG scale pay ($75,000), on condition that his name or image not be used for marketing, and his (supporting) character not take more than 25% of space on advertising artwork, since Toys was scheduled for release one month after Aladdin's debut. The studio went back on the deal on both counts, especially in poster art by having the Genie in 25% of the image, but having other major and supporting characters portrayed considerably smaller. Disney's Hyperion book, Aladdin: The Making Of An Animated Film, listed both of Williams' characters "The Peddler" and "The Genie" ahead of main characters, but was forced to refer to him only as "the actor signed to play the Genie".

Williams and Disney had a bitter falling-out, and as a result Dan Castellaneta voiced the Genie in The Return of Jafar, the Aladdin animated television series, and had recorded his voice for Aladdin and the King of Thieves. When Jeffrey Katzenberg was fired from Disney and replaced by former 20th Century Fox production head Joe Roth (whose last act for Fox was greenlighting Williams' film Mrs. Doubtfire), Roth arranged for a public apology to Williams by Disney. Williams agreed to perform in Hollywood Pictures' Jack, directed by Francis Ford Coppola, and even agreed to voice the Genie again for the King Of Thieves sequel (for considerably more than scale), replacing all of Castellaneta's dialogue.

When Williams re-teamed with Doubtfire director Chris Columbus for 1999's Bicentennial Man, Disney asked that the budget be cut by approximately $20 million, and when the film was released on Christmas Day, it flopped at the box office. Williams blamed Disney's marketing and the loss of content the film had suffered due to the budget cuts. As a result, Williams was again on bad terms with Disney, and Castellaneta was once again recruited to replace him as Genie in the Kingdom Hearts video game series and the House of Mouse TV series. The DVD release for Aladdin has no involvement whatsoever from Williams in the bonus materials, although some of his original recording sessions can be seen.

So that's why, in case you wanted to know...
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Sat, Jun 6, 2009 10:46:50 pm EDT from 75.156.190.146

i got a Gargoyles t-shirt from Hot Topic a a year ago. it awasome
Becky - [beckybug1991 at aol dot com]
Becky <3
posted @ Sat, Jun 6, 2009 6:50:43 pm EDT from 71.7.116.47

I'm guessing someone like Robin Williams would fall into that "special contract" category. And this is probably why the voice of Homer Simpson got the job of voicing Genie on the Aladdin series.

76 days left until The 13th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles in Los Angeles, California!
Patrick - [<-- Gathering 2009]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Sat, Jun 6, 2009 4:54:23 pm EDT from 173.88.135.205

Just as a question - are we talking of a rate here or an actual price?

I mean, If a person says one line, is he paid the same rate or the same amount as somebody with more lines?

It's just really interresting, the father of my best friend owns a sync-studio, and does the voice-over for a huge portion of films and shows. I know that there are set rates for non prominent (= A-class) voice-actors, but the ammoung of money also differs with the amount of spoken lines.

Also, does the rate apply for prominent actors too (say, Robin Williams does a few lines)?
Brook
I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!
posted @ Sat, Jun 6, 2009 2:44:09 pm EDT from 84.191.188.88

Jen> So there's legally no way a US TV production could pay more money to get someone like say, Patrick Stewart, to come in and do a voice?

Also, if the better animation studios charge more money to make an episode, how does it get decided which episodes go to which studio? And how do the people on the creative side convince the bean counters that every episode shouldn't be produced at the least expensive studio?

Thanks for answering these questions. I enjoy learning about TV animation production and there's clearly a lot I don't know.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Sat, Jun 6, 2009 2:43:56 pm EDT from 146.115.115.33

Brook, then the project you were working on was non-union. Smaller companies will often do that to forgo the costs and rip off the actors. ::shrugs::

And yes... if you are working outside the US, then probably all the rules are different than what we have in place professionally here. You should consider that when making blanket statements of fact.
Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson
"Today, we were kidnapped by hill folk never to be seen again. It was the best day ever." -- Jayne, Firefly
posted @ Sat, Jun 6, 2009 2:33:49 pm EDT from 76.174.154.162

@ Jen: Are we talking one company or various here?

Sure - if it is one company, it might be the exact same rate - then again, this might be due to the union.

I've worked for a smaller company who did a VO for a DVD, and there was a big discussion at a time to get a prominent voice actor, who would cost more and was considered 'difficulty' by those who've worked with him - yet would bring more attention and possibly the aura of "professionality" to the project - or an unknown - cheaper, but not with the effect the bosses wanted to have.

But this could be different in the US with the union.
Brook
I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!
posted @ Sat, Jun 6, 2009 2:27:34 pm EDT from 84.191.188.88

Demonskrye -

<<Are better animation studios pricier to work with?>> YES

<<Do retakes for animation that comes back from overseas looking bad add to the budget?>> If it's a goof from the animation house, no. If it's change or something overlooked on what we send them... yes, we get charged.

<<Do voice actor fees go up if the script is more dialogue heavy than most or if it take the actors longer to nail their lines?>> NO

<<I'm sure all the guest voice actors "Gargoyles" brought in made for a larger voice actor budget on some episodes than others.>> NO, the only thing that would make it go up is the amount of actors used per episode. One episode has only 3 people talking... cheaper. Another has 20... obviously more expensive.
Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson
"Today, we were kidnapped by hill folk never to be seen again. It was the best day ever." -- Jayne, Firefly
posted @ Sat, Jun 6, 2009 2:26:35 pm EDT from 76.174.154.162

Brook - Actually, that's not true. The union makes sure everyone gets paid flat across the board. Unless there's a special contract, it's just not true.

I've seen Alan Rachins come in to say the word "NO" and leave and get paid exactly the same as Josh Keaton who had to work his ass off for 4 hours of action dialog.

Just. Not. True.
Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson
"Today, we were kidnapped by hill folk never to be seen again. It was the best day ever." -- Jayne, Firefly
posted @ Sat, Jun 6, 2009 2:08:46 pm EDT from 76.174.154.162

@ Demonskrye (again): OH, as for the voice actors, most are paid by the lines they have, but it also depends on who they are and how their reputation is. I'm sure you'll get me a lot cheaper for an entire EP of me trying to pretend to be Goliath, than Michael Dorn saying "Jalapenas" once.

But this may varry, and depends on the work conditions of the actor.
Brook
I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!
posted @ Sat, Jun 6, 2009 8:28:17 am EDT from 84.191.188.88

@ Demonskrye: Better animation studios pricier??

DUDE - AND HOW PRICEY!!

Seriously!!

The fewer material (re-used scenes, the same voice actors, the same character models), the cheaper. Now, look at one of these direct to Wallmart-DVD-films and compare them to an EP of GARGOYLES - the quality is already very different, so you've got to counte material costs.

Then think about the amount of artists and colorists that is needed to, say, design that Manhattan skyline with the blue/purple Gargoyles up there. Take a look at it and guess how much time these artists might have to work on the picture until it is done, and make sure to also take note how detailed and well it is actually done.

Now, multiply this.

However, this doesn't apply to some indipendant poductions - especially not self-done films, where most of the artists work for free or "the sake of the project".

However, if you take into account that many artists might venture in these side realms, you can also guess how hard it is to be paid well and to be paid on time for your bills to be paid.

Therefore, the prices for animators shot through the roof.

So, if you count all the people working on one EP of GARGOYLES, all the designers, pencillers, colorists, voice aactors, writers, directors, cutters etc., you've already got a long list of people who want and have to be paid - reasonably for what they do.

However, you also have to keep in mind that money comes in. So, the 475.000$ aren't "vanishing" - Disney is still pretty sure to do +/- 475.000$ per EP (at LEAST as much to equal a 0 in the end).

GARGOYLES did fairly well, but didn't bring in what the execs would have loved it to (so we can assume that it brought in quite a lot of money, but "not enough"). In these terms, animated TV-shows are a lot different of live-action films, where the studio is taking a lot of risk with what they put out (see Waterworld, Gigli, Spawn).
Brook
I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!
posted @ Sat, Jun 6, 2009 8:26:36 am EDT from 84.191.188.88

I don't know if this factoid has ever come up before, but Greg mentioned in a recent answer that the average episode of "Gargoyles" - excluding TGC - cost $450,000 to produce. I don't believe I've ever heard the cost per episode of an animated series before, so it's interesting to know. It may also serve as an additional reason why it's highly unlikely that any other company would approach Disney about buying the property, and pretty much impossible for a bunch of fans to get together and do it. I'm sure productions costs have only gone up since "Gargoyles" was on the air, meaning that you're talking millions of dollars just to produce a couple of episodes.

I would be interested to know what factors could cause an episode to cost more or less than the average. Are better animation studios pricier to work with? Do retakes for animation that comes back from overseas looking bad add to the budget? Do voice actor fees go up if the script is more dialogue heavy than most or if it take the actors longer to nail their lines? I'm sure all the guest voice actors "Gargoyles" brought in made for a larger voice actor budget on some episodes than others.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Sat, Jun 6, 2009 7:50:34 am EDT from 146.115.115.33

TVShowsonDVD is showing the final coverart for TSS-M Season One:

http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/news/Spectacular-Spider-Man-Season-1-Box-Art/12047

Bonus features apparently include "Stylized Spidey" and "Spider-Man: Reanimated"

Can't Wait!
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Fri, Jun 5, 2009 8:37:55 pm EDT from 68.230.39.162

I certainly hope SLG does have the TPB at Comic-Con. I'm planning on getting autographs if it's possible...
The One Known As Mochi - [shogi dot keima dot 08 at gmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>^^)> On the DSi...
posted @ Fri, Jun 5, 2009 2:45:20 pm EDT from 72.199.86.224

I've seen the June Previews: the "Bad Guys" TPB solicit is in there, and the image uses the issue #1 cover (Matrix)
Incisivis - [incisivis at hotmail dot com]
"No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream" -- Shirley Jackson
posted @ Fri, Jun 5, 2009 1:21:00 pm EDT from 216.36.154.204

Charisma> I'm sure SLG will have a booth. It's my impression that they go every year. And since Clan Building 2 is supposed to be out in time for ComicCon, I would assume that they want to promote it there.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Thu, Jun 4, 2009 11:37:15 pm EDT from 146.115.115.33

Hey, quick question. Does anyone know if Greg or anyone from SLG will have a booth at comic con promoting the Gargoyles TPB2 (or just Gargoyles in general) in July?
Charisma82
"It is better to have a horrible ending than to have horrors without end."
posted @ Thu, Jun 4, 2009 8:08:23 pm EDT from 64.128.148.204

Anthony: He's talking about this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fK1vpc_97Y at 0:32.

But that reminds me. Is anyone going to a comic shop this week? I'm wondering if the Gargoyles: Bad Guys - Redemption solicitation made it in the June issue of Previews and if there is any new art.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]
posted @ Thu, Jun 4, 2009 2:57:59 pm EDT from 128.101.32.234

Can anyone post said panel from Previews?
Anthony Tini
posted @ Thu, Jun 4, 2009 1:59:10 pm EDT from 159.240.11.254

Litwolf> One small correction: Brooklyn arrives just in time to whisk Mary and Finella off to safety somewhere in the U.S. during the 1970s. Which is more modern day that the time they came from, but a few decades off from the modern day of either the real world or current Gargoyles universe time. And we don't yet know where the Phoenix Gate initially brought them aside from that it's somewhere in the U.S., though they do eventually end up in Manhattan, in would seem.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Thu, Jun 4, 2009 11:00:43 am EDT from 146.115.115.33

Matt > Though I somehow missed that line in the preview, I do agree that it sounds to me that the Grim is the Grimorum. We know Constantine is trying to get it from the girls and that Brooklyn appeares just in time to swoop them and the Grimorum to safety in modern day Manhattan. Perhaps he needs to defeat Constantine before the Gate is able to bring them to the future.
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Thu, Jun 4, 2009 8:01:20 am EDT from 173.69.136.16

Btw, to those with access to German TV.
After they are through with the current run, Kabel 1 will apparently re-run the series.
Starting on the 5th of July, they'll once again show them in a double pack. Time slot changes from the rather uncivil 7 o'clock to the more civil 9 o'clock, check videotext or internet for accurate starting times. Kabel 1 has the tendency to not show the credits, they currently only use one small logo and are broadcasting TGC with the general Gargoyles opening. So, generally good for getting a private copy in German.
Anonymouse
posted @ Thu, Jun 4, 2009 3:26:49 am EDT from 89.246.215.27

So, a thought about a panel in the preview we got this week.

Brooklyn's exact thought quote is:

"...But I'm bettin' if I wanna ride home job one is to help the Grim defeat the tyrant Constantine."

It seems a lot of you think that "the Grim" refers to the new Hunter dude. That doesn't make much sense. The Hunter dude is wearing the banner of Constantine. And any Hunter worth his scars would be helping Constantine eradicate the gargoyles. And why would Brooklyn help a Hunter anyway?

No, the Grim is someone or something else. I wonder if the Grim is the Grimorum itself or people associated with protecting the book. Who else would be fighting the Hunter and Constantine than those charged with keeping the Grimorum and gargoyles safe?

Just my thoughts.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"I hide in plain sight. The demons do it all the time." - John Castaway, 'Estranged'
posted @ Thu, Jun 4, 2009 12:09:06 am EDT from 70.230.185.75

Greg just posted some information about the ratings for "Spectacular Spider-Man" on Ask Greg. He says Sony is reasonably pleased with how it's doing. Keep your fingers crossed for season two to do well.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Wed, Jun 3, 2009 8:57:05 pm EDT from 146.115.115.33

Todd - That would be a mistake on my part for copying and pasting too quickly. Sorry. Correcting it now on our web page.
Patrick - [<-- Gathering 2009]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Wed, Jun 3, 2009 7:47:09 pm EDT from 173.88.135.205

The latest Gathering newsletter (I got it in my inbox today) says that both the Clan-Building Volume Two trade paperback and the "Bad Guys" trade paperback will be published in July. All the other sources and reports I've seen say that the "Bad Guys" trade paperback will be coming out in August. Has that changed, or is the newsletter in error?
Todd Jensen
posted @ Wed, Jun 3, 2009 6:51:12 pm EDT from 4.244.210.118

Landon> Amazon is really good about making changes and getting back to you with answers to your questions. We can only hope that SLG gets a picture up on Amazon. I think that'll be a huge help.
Anthony Tini
posted @ Wed, Jun 3, 2009 2:08:43 pm EDT from 159.240.11.254

Anthony - No, I just sent an @reply and they never responded. Amazon has incorporated the changes I submitted though (except I spelled Ben Dunn correctly). It'd be nice to have an image, but I think only SLG can do that before the release.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]
posted @ Wed, Jun 3, 2009 12:42:02 pm EDT from 128.101.32.234

@ Demonkrye: Ah, thanks for clearing that up. :)

I guess I'm just a bit touchy, because I actually looked into a lot of the TIMEDANCER fan-fics when I was younger, and a lot of them were iconic Garg-moments with Brooklyn pulling the strings, which was OK for a while, but dull as it occurred in almost each fic I read.

I guess I'm just on the edge of my seat... I want to read this for ages, it was 11/10 years ago that I saw the show and learned of TIMEDANCER...
Brook
I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!
posted @ Wed, Jun 3, 2009 12:33:40 pm EDT from 84.191.229.134

Brook> I'm in the same boat; I can't see the clip cuz I'm from Canada. :( But I think I saw the episode anyway, and it was pretty funny...
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Wed, Jun 3, 2009 12:21:32 pm EDT from 75.156.190.146

Landon Thomas> Did anyone from SLG get back to you concerning Amazon?
Anthony Tini
posted @ Wed, Jun 3, 2009 11:53:28 am EDT from 159.240.11.254

Brook> I agree with Antiyonder. Brook said that the TimeDancer stories would be recalling iconic moments from the series, not retelling them. From what I know of TimeDancer, there is going to be very little focus on revisiting events we've already seen from a different viewpoint. And since the comic should theoretically make sense to people who have never seen the TV series, touching on important events in the "Gargoyles" timeline could actually be very helpful for people who have no clue about the Wyvern Massacre, Demona's clan, th events of "Avalon," or any of that.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Wed, Jun 3, 2009 11:18:13 am EDT from 146.115.115.33

Brook> Just because the story involves time travel doesn't mean that Greg is going to tell the same story from a different point of view.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
Algernon's comment about Norman Osborn: One of the neat things about Dark Reign is that it gives Osborn the chance to expand his horizons beyond tormenting a twenty nine year old who still lives with his mom.
posted @ Wed, Jun 3, 2009 10:38:42 am EDT from 71.115.231.114

Family Guy> If it was actually a "Gargoyles" reference, I would want to see pics or audio clips as well. But since it's not, I really don't find it that hard to believe that actors from "Star Trek" made guest appearances on a popular animated show. That and I don't really care that much, since I don't like "Family Guy."
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Wed, Jun 3, 2009 9:07:05 am EDT from 146.115.115.33

@ Patrick: No chance, outside the US. Still: Pics, or it didn't happen. ;P

@ Phoenician: I agree, though I think that after TIMEDANCER, Greg should quit it with the re-telling of iconic moments from another viewpoint. It's really cool to a certain degree, but at some point, it becomes BACK TO THE FUTURE 2... ;)
Brook
I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!
posted @ Wed, Jun 3, 2009 5:56:52 am EDT from 84.191.229.134

SLG CB-V2 Teaser -- Oh this series is gonna be fun . . . new adventures while recalling iconic moments like the Wyvern Massacre, an element that definitely made the multi-parters like 'City of Stone' 'Avalon' and 'Hunter's Moon' all the more satisfying.

Antiyonder -- I remember that ramble and I was also intrigued when Greg wrote how much more interesting a character Finella would be if that really was the case. Finella is, of course, one of many strong woman that I hope to see plenty of in Clan Building Volume II, along with (presumably) Mary, Constance, Coldfire, (hopefully more-than-a-glimpse) Katana, and -- most definitely -- Demona.
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Wed, Jun 3, 2009 2:30:25 am EDT from 68.98.115.219

With mention of Finella and her role in the upcoming story, I feel the need to bring up something that Greg W mentioned on his rambling for Avalon Part 1.

Do you think that Finella really saw Constantine as an irredeemable monster after he killed King Kenneth or would she have favored him if he didn't reject her for Katherine?

Her dialogue about helping the Princess and company for the sake of hurting Constantine gives me the impression of the latter.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
Algernon's comment about Norman Osborn: One of the neat things about Dark Reign is that it gives Osborn the chance to expand his horizons beyond tormenting a twenty nine year old who still lives with his mom.
posted @ Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:13:46 pm EDT from 71.115.231.114

For all you "pics or it didn't happen" skeptics...

http://www.hulu.com/watch/64995/family-guy-not-all-dogs-go-to-heaven
Patrick - [<-- Gathering 2009]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:39:42 pm EDT from 173.88.135.205

I was at the library today, and spent some time reading a book on the kings of England and Scotland in the Middle Ages, all the way up to Richard III. It had a few pages on Macbeth, Canmore, and the other Scottish kings, and I gave much attention to those in particular. Two details I thought I'd share with you:

1. The account of Kenneth II's death in the chronicles is different from that in "Avalon Part One". In the chronicles, Finella (called here Finvella) hated him because he'd put her son to death (suggesting that she was probably older than her counterpart in "Gargoyles", so she invited Kenneth over to her house for dinner, gave him enough wine to numb his senses, then led him into a room where a statue holding a golden apple stood. She told the king that the golden apple was for him; Kenneth grabbed it, unaware that the statue was booby-trapped so that when he took the apple from it, it triggered several automatic cross-bows to shoot him. (Lexington would have been intrigued by the machinery, even if he wasn't so keen on the results or the purpose.)

2. After William the Conqueror took over England, Canmore got into a war with him (he received some members of the old royal family from pre-1066 times when they fled to Scotland, even marrying one of them, the Princess Margaret), but lost and had to swear allegiance to William. He did so on August 15, 1072. Since August 15 was also the date of his victory over Macbeth in 1057, Canmore had to observe the fifteenth anniversary of his "killing" Macbeth and slaughtering Demona's clan (from the perspective of the Gargoyles Universe) doing homage to another king (and the king of England, where his former allies had come from, at that). He couldn't have liked that, but I suspect that Macbeth and Demona might have been amused, had they known it.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Jun 2, 2009 8:31:49 pm EDT from 4.244.212.213

Click through one of the Amazon links on the Gathering's web site and then order the book and con will earn a few cents, too. Every little bit helps! I'll see about getting a link up to the actual book ASAP.
Patrick - [<-- Gathering 2009]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:55:32 pm EDT from 173.88.135.205

Amazon shifted the date to the last Wednesday in July. They're still guessing, but that's better.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]
posted @ Tue, Jun 2, 2009 5:49:59 pm EDT from 216.250.163.157

Landon> That's a great idea, I hadn't even thought of Amazon. They have really good prices, I think I might pre-order CB Vol. 2 and Bad Guys from there now. :)
Ricky
posted @ Tue, Jun 2, 2009 4:36:32 pm EDT from 141.149.37.223

Litwolf - Amazon usually updates everything when a book actually goes on sale. I've submitted the changes to Amazon using their form. We'll see if it goes through.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]
posted @ Tue, Jun 2, 2009 4:20:09 pm EDT from 128.101.32.234

Landon > Ha, yeah. Theyll wonder why its not selling all through July, only to go to the Amazon page and see that its off by a month.
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Tue, Jun 2, 2009 4:09:37 pm EDT from 173.69.136.16

Amazon is wrong. I've asked @SLGPublishing to update the specs and upload a cover image, but they haven't yet. You'd think that would be in their best interest...
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]
posted @ Tue, Jun 2, 2009 4:05:42 pm EDT from 128.101.32.234

Hey, the Amazon link to Clan Building Vol 2 says the release date is Aug 8th, a week before Bad Guys is release. Did the date change when I wasnt looking or is Amazon wrong?
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Tue, Jun 2, 2009 3:57:58 pm EDT from 173.69.136.16

Other links for promotion:

Vol 2: http://www.amazon.com/Gargoyles-Clan-Building/dp/1593621671 - http://is.gd/C0Mj
Bad Guys trade: http://www.amazon.com/Gargoyles-Bad-Guys-Greg-Weisman/dp/1593621930 - http://is.gd/CpZY
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]
posted @ Tue, Jun 2, 2009 3:53:52 pm EDT from 128.101.32.234

Ricky: I'd recommend promoting the Amazon link as a convenient place to buy Volume 1: http://www.amazon.com/Gargoyles-Clan-Building-Greg-Weisman/dp/1593620969 - short link: http://is.gd/AvEi

It's only $1.57 more and you avoid purchasing from a random person on eBay. Another advantage of buying from a genuine retailer is that when they run out, they'll order more directly from the publisher, driving up demand.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]
posted @ Tue, Jun 2, 2009 3:52:50 pm EDT from 128.101.32.234

Oh wow! That trailer for volume two looks so cool! I am so excited now! I should be able to go to my local comic store later this week and can see if I can preorder it yet.
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Tue, Jun 2, 2009 3:26:31 pm EDT from 173.69.136.16

Battle Beast> ""Wil Weaton." "Hwil Hweaton." "Wil Weaton." "Hwil Hweaton." "Wil Weaton." "Hwil Hweaton." "Wil Weaton." "Hwil Hweaton." "Wil Weaton.""

Yeah, that part cracked me up, too.

I also liked the way Stewie kept yelling at everyone at the McDonalds' drive-thru. This episode = absolute win.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Tue, Jun 2, 2009 3:21:57 pm EDT from 69.223.177.133

In case anyone needs to pick up a copy of Clan-Building, Vol. 1, here's a link to it on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=270401608851
Ricky
posted @ Tue, Jun 2, 2009 2:25:53 pm EDT from 141.149.37.223

"Wil Weaton." "Hwil Hweaton." "Wil Weaton." "Hwil Hweaton." "Wil Weaton." "Hwil Hweaton." "Wil Weaton." "Hwil Hweaton." "Wil Weaton."

Killed me!!! I loved the episode. Very funny.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Tue, Jun 2, 2009 1:53:20 pm EDT from 75.156.190.146

Todd Jensen> The latter.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Tue, Jun 2, 2009 11:53:17 am EDT from 69.223.177.133

PATRICK - Did they actually reference "Gargoyles" in that episode, or were Marina Sirtis, Michael Dorn, and the rest on it as a reference to, say, their work in the "Star Trek" franchise?
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Jun 2, 2009 8:42:27 am EDT from 4.244.212.65

@ Patrick: Pics/Videos or it didn't happen! O_O
Brook
I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!
posted @ Tue, Jun 2, 2009 7:28:13 am EDT from 84.191.191.79

I sure hope it's not "Grim" as in "Grim Reaper" in a story involving time travel, or I'm going to be hearing Adam Corolla's voice in my head when I read the lines.

BTW, did anyone else catch the voice cast of "Gargoyles" appearance on "Family Guy" this past weekend? Now audio clips exist of Demona saying "The show's been off the air for fifteen years!" and Coldstone saying "I want a McDLT."

80 days left until the 13th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles in Los Angeles, CA!
Patrick - [<-- Gathering 2009]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:55:54 am EDT from 173.88.135.205

@ Wingless: Not did - do!! :) This started this spring, and somehow took over.

For more fun:

Dabid Bowie = THE BOW!
Radiohead = THE RHEAD!
Arcade Fire = THE ARCD!

etc.
Brook
I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!
posted @ Tue, Jun 2, 2009 6:52:13 am EDT from 84.191.191.79

Here's some of Ben Dunn's art: http://dogsupreme.deviantart.com/gallery/

No hidden Gargoyles covers this time. :)
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]
posted @ Mon, Jun 1, 2009 10:03:00 pm EDT from 216.250.163.157

Ricky - Yeah, 80sTees.com isn't selling either, so no more new Gargoyles shirts anywhere, as far as I know. The index page should probably be updated.

Clan-Building vol. 2 is at the printers: http://slg-news.livejournal.com/339168.html

There are a few new facts to glean. July is confirmed-confirmed. The last unannounced artist is Ben Dunn, founder of Antarctic Press, which regularly hires David Hutchison. The trade cover layout is shown too. 160 pages (how many pages were in the 1st trade?)
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]
posted @ Mon, Jun 1, 2009 9:38:41 pm EDT from 216.250.163.157

Brook-people referred to the Beatles as "The Beat"??? As a music historian of sorts, that's a new one on me. The Fab Four mabye-but The Beat-never.

How about Fonzie-The Fonz (not a music group, but hey.
Wingless
posted @ Mon, Jun 1, 2009 9:19:51 pm EDT from 99.245.254.123

@ Todd: "Where I come from" ( ;) ), people started referring to bands in these kinda short-term-forms, including a THE in front of it.

The Beatles = THE BEAT!
Coldplay = THE COLD!
Morrissey = THE MOZ!
Grizzly Bear = THE GRIZZ!
(etc. just to name a few)

So, when I spotted the THE GRIM! line, I had to laugh for the thought of Greg applying this to the Gargs.

THE BROOK! :D
Brook
I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!
posted @ Mon, Jun 1, 2009 8:46:29 pm EDT from 84.191.179.159

That was fantastic! I didn't think it was possible to be MORE excited than I already was... but I was wrong.

On a kinda crappy note, I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but Hot Topic is no longer selling the Gargoyles t-shirts. :(
Ricky
posted @ Mon, Jun 1, 2009 8:36:19 pm EDT from 141.149.37.223

I just saw the YouTube presentation as well, and thought it was great. Now I'm looking forward to it even more.

I think that the Grim is the Hunter-like figure (maybe an echo of "Grim Reaper"?).
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Jun 1, 2009 7:49:52 pm EDT from 4.244.215.49

Kickass-trailer-top-3:

3.: Brooklyn looking at himself in stone sleep an going "Hm, this is freaky!"
2.: A HUGE Phoenix attacking Brooklyn (more or less...)
1.: Brooklyn attacking Demona

Since I'm unsure about this, Brooklyn calling the Grimorum THE GRIM is not in there... I might have somehow misunderstood that. :D
Brook
I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!
posted @ Mon, Jun 1, 2009 7:01:08 pm EDT from 84.191.179.159

Oh God I'm so excited now.
Rebel
posted @ Mon, Jun 1, 2009 6:20:15 pm EDT from 76.107.69.141

Ok. I'm pumped!!! Great way to promote the book! Someone should do something like that for the DVDs.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Mon, Jun 1, 2009 5:26:50 pm EDT from 75.156.190.146

HYPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D

Also, the additional pages might be a lengthy last-issue.
Brook
I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!
posted @ Mon, Jun 1, 2009 5:10:47 pm EDT from 84.191.179.159

SWEET! Thanks for the heads-up, Landon! I can't wait!
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Mon, Jun 1, 2009 3:48:58 pm EDT from 146.115.115.33

SLG has their Clan-Building vol. 2 trailer up with a sneak peek at several panels: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fK1vpc_97Y
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]
posted @ Mon, Jun 1, 2009 3:04:43 pm EDT from 128.101.32.234

Toy Story 3> The theater where I saw "Up" wasted all its time on trailers for movies I will never see like "G-Force" and "New Eddie Murphy Kids Movie," so no Toy Story 3 teaser. It is available online; Apple's website has it. Mind you, it is just a teaser, not an actual trailer. Along the lines of the one for Toy Story 2 with the aliens on the white background as "The Claw" adds a "2" to the logo and Woody and Buzz on the black background. In other words, no real indication of what the movie is going to be about, just a heads up that it's on the way and a brief visit from your favorite characters.

I loved both of the previous Toy Story films, so I'm psyched.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Mon, Jun 1, 2009 12:21:45 pm EDT from 146.115.115.33

Brook> "There were so many cheesy parts which, if you're not into this kind of drive-in-retro-80s-horror would just have been annoying (especially the beginning, where late-20s pose as teenagers XD)."

Well, Brook, that tends to be a staple with horror films.

*looks at his original slasher film script and starts whistling innocently*

Phoenician> "Plus, I've yet to catch it in 3-D, so I have incentive to watch again . . . but a question: Did anyone catch the 'Toy Story 3' teaser with the film? I've been getting mixed reports on whether or not it was to be attached to 'UP' (in my own case it wasn't attached, simply Disney's 'Princess & the Frog')."

The showing of the film that I saw had the TS3 trailer attached, and it was interesting (Not gonna spoil it but I will say 'poor Woody'. :P), so I enjoyed it. My first thought afterwards was 'bout damn time'.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Mon, Jun 1, 2009 11:28:14 am EDT from 69.223.177.133

KC, Samuel, Demonskrye -- As great as 'UP' is, I don't think it'll end up being one of my personal favorites (Bug's Life, Ratatouille, and Monsters,Inc. have essentially been tied in my mind for a few years now d: ), but it doesn't stop the fact that I thoroughly enjoyed watching it . . . as is the case with any PIXAR film. ;)

Plus, I've yet to catch it in 3-D, so I have incentive to watch again . . . but a question: Did anyone catch the 'Toy Story 3' teaser with the film? I've been getting mixed reports on whether or not it was to be attached to 'UP' (in my own case it wasn't attached, simply Disney's 'Princess & the Frog').
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Mon, Jun 1, 2009 10:02:51 am EDT from 68.98.115.219

Oh, mis-typed that below: I meant to write "since V2 includes the last 4 issues, which were not available as single issues".

Personally, I think some people must have lost interrest after 5. :( Everything from 6-8 didn't do as well as 1-5... but THAT also might be due to the collected editions - some people who saw V1 come out might have thought "Ah, screw it, why should I buy another 6 single issues if a collected volume of them comes out later on?"... either that or lost interrest...

I mean, there's GOT to be some reason 1-5 did sell out and that from 6 on, the single issues and the CB:V1 book did not do as well...
Brook
I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!
posted @ Mon, Jun 1, 2009 10:00:14 am EDT from 84.191.216.48

@ Demonskrye: Europe, to be a bit more specific. :)

I talked to the owners of 2 shops in... ah, beats me, 07? Anyways, I tried to get a grip on 1-4, and they told me that all of them were sold out and still requested many times.

When I went back to the same 2 stores now, I asked again how GARGOYLES was doing. They told me that the first 5 issues did sell out, but that it dropped afterwards, and that CB:V1 was still there, and that only a few of those were bought.

So it seems most seem to have either lost interrest or have bought the single issues before. I mean, if you're an old fan of the show and have picked up the single issues, most of them might have not felt the need to pick up CB:V1.
Anyways, they both told me this time around that they'd order fewer copies, and if these will sell out, they might re-order some, if they're still in stock. Following the above logic, people who bought the single issues but left CB:V1 aside, might grab this one much quicker, since it consists of the 4 last stories to the arc.

The single issues 1-5 were that fast sold out, he dealers were unable to get their hands on a re-stock, apparently. So fingers crossed that V2 will do as well over here.
Brook
I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!
posted @ Mon, Jun 1, 2009 9:42:32 am EDT from 84.191.216.48

Brook> Just to make sure I understand you correctly, what you're saying is that the single issues were very hard to find in your area and that when people couldn't get them, they just lost interest in the series and didn't know or didn't care when the first volume of Clan Building came out. Is that correct?
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Mon, Jun 1, 2009 9:29:34 am EDT from 146.115.115.33

@ King Cobra: I'm biased as well - if not for my huge favor of (good) horrorfilms, I might have thought that it was a crapfest. XD There were so many cheesy parts which, if you're not into this kind of drive-in-retro-80s-horror would just have been annoying (especially the beginning, where late-20s pose as teenagers XD).

I realize this is heavy OT, but has anybody got anything to report from the TALE OF 2 SISTERS remake? The orriginal is one of the best films of this decade (let alone one of the best Horror-Drama films), and the only reason why I might watch the remake would be the main actress. ;)

On another note, CB:V2 will hit shelves in rather small masses over here. :( CB:V1 asn't sold too well, mostly due to the single-issues "collectors item" status (as I reported earlier, most of the single issues were sold out over here, with many people asking for them even after they were long gone). But different to V1, V2 includes original material. I guess I'll better reserve one for me as well now...
Brook
I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!
posted @ Mon, Jun 1, 2009 8:18:52 am EDT from 84.191.216.48

I also saw Up recently. I enjoyed it a lot. Every time Ed Asner delivered a crotchety old man lane, I squealed in joy internally.

Sigh. Fantastic film.
Samuel - [AnglOfHellO at AOL dot com]
Now, now... Language.
posted @ Mon, Jun 1, 2009 7:11:13 am EDT from 68.55.57.46

Number 10 in the name of luckily restoring the internet just in time!
Samuel - [AnglOfHellO at AOL dot com]
Now, now... Language.
posted @ Mon, Jun 1, 2009 7:09:01 am EDT from 68.55.57.46

9th!

81 days left until the 13th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles in Los Angeles, CA!
Patrick - [<-- Gathering 2009]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Mon, Jun 1, 2009 6:52:33 am EDT from 173.88.135.205

8th
VickyUK - [vickyfanofwwe at aol dot com]
posted @ Mon, Jun 1, 2009 4:30:38 am EDT from 64.12.117.74

Lucky (7)Seven!
Vinnie - [tpeano29 at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Mon, Jun 1, 2009 2:35:35 am EDT from 69.54.209.20

6th~!
The One Known As Mochi - [shogi dot keima dot 08 at gmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>T.T)> My eyes...
posted @ Mon, Jun 1, 2009 1:38:38 am EDT from 72.199.86.224

Phoenician> Saw 'Up' with my partner (along with Terminator Salvation) over the weekend. It was an interesting movie and props to Ed Asner for his great performance. Not my kind of movie, though, but it's still fun.

Sorry for the double post.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Mon, Jun 1, 2009 1:20:05 am EDT from 99.22.66.61

5th.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Mon, Jun 1, 2009 1:17:34 am EDT from 99.22.66.61

Fourth!
Spen
"What if this wasn't a hypothetical question?"
posted @ Mon, Jun 1, 2009 12:36:34 am EDT from 66.43.205.110

Third! (and thats a first)
Greetings Brethren, I am currently in the intial stages of moving. My current dwelling has largly gone to Helheim, with rather undesirable people living near by.
In other new's, I am seriously thinking about attenging this years gathering, its just a matter of fitting everything into place. I am wanting to assemble a King Arthur costume and act, to top my Odin bit last year.

One question, does anyone know any fans from Indiana or Chicago that might be going? I thought I might find some traveling compaining might make the trip easier.

Oh.....and you must find the Obsidian Dragon....before the next full moon!!!
Justin "I;d Rather Be Pillaging"
Honor and goodness? You choke on those words, just like oyu will choke on your own vomit in the end!" Merlin to Uther
posted @ Mon, Jun 1, 2009 12:31:53 am EDT from 98.227.85.35

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Comments for the week ending June 8, 2009

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