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Comments for the week ending July 13, 2009

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What's stopping me from going this year is a complete lack of income. I've been living off my severance package and the generosity of my housemates since I got laid off last October. I have subsequently been unable to land another job, and even if I got one tomorrow and instantly had enough money to pay for my flight/hotel/food, I doubt it would let me have the time off so soon after getting hired.

I'd go if I was financially able. I really would. -..-

Kerry (Kth) Boyd

PURPLEGOLDFISH> <<And this thought occured to me, Greg B said that 8 can do the mug-a-guest. Is it the same eight people every year? It does seem to me like the same people do this and it sounds like some sort of secret club. What is everyone else doing while the guests are in these chats? It's cool that some of you are friends with Greg W and all, but how about letting some other people get the chance to meet him.>>

We have a sign up sheet at the registration table for the Mug-A-Guest. People who are interested sign up. It's not the same people every year or any kind of secret club. People are allowed to attend two sessions at most. Typically, the con staff is too busy running other aspects of the con to attend the Mug-A-Guest sessions. Other panels are always taking place at the same time.

Greg Bishansky - [<----- Gathering 2009]

Brook: Thanks very much, I appreciate :)

"I just want to know what to do to get you to come and enjoy the convention."

Pay for my plane ticket, my hotel stay, and my meals and I'll come. I wish I could go. I really really wish I could. Wanna know why I can't come-I'm living off of medicaid because I have less than a thousand dollars in the bank and I don't even own a lousy credit card. That's why. My family pretty much pays for my existance, so asking them to send me across to the other side of the country for a convention doesn't seem very rational. I keep trying to save up money every year, but I always end up having to spend it...on you know, life.

I hate sounding like a bitchy emo teenager, but you did ask, and ask, and ask. Most people have already cited money as the reason. Why must we keep getting our noses shoved into the fact that we can't go.

Honestly, some of the attitudes displayed in here recently actually turned me off from even wanting to go if I could. I'm afraid I would be uncomfortable in a social setting with some people, and I wouldn't enjoy myself.

And this thought occured to me, Greg B said that 8 can do the mug-a-guest. Is it the same eight people every year? It does seem to me like the same people do this and it sounds like some sort of secret club. What is everyone else doing while the guests are in these chats? It's cool that some of you are friends with Greg W and all, but how about letting some other people get the chance to meet him.


For me personally, its financial, that I don't go. I just don't have the money for the plane ticket, hotel, food, admission, and other various monies I'd want to buy things. I am a single mom working two jobs. One of them being the start up of my own business. I KNOW I can totally save up the money for the convention, but I got priorities. First priority is my daughter. Second is my pets, I got a lot of the to feed and care for. I don't have many other bills because I live with my parents. But the start up of this business is draining my paycheck weekly. I do live paycheck to paycheck. I have no savings. What savings I did have, went into my business. And I need another $4000+ for my next two costumes for the business. So going to a convention like the Gathering isn't feasible. I am hoping next con season, here in Orlando, I can reserve a booth at a few of the big ones and earn some money using my suits. I am going to be buying a better camera and photo printer and making backdrops. I go to the local cons like MegaCon and FX with my unicorn costume and it was so popular, I barely got 2 steps without people asking for pics. So next year I plan to have a photography booth and charge people for professional photos with me in the suit. Just $5-$10. Give it a go and see if I can make some extra cash. If its really popular, then I'd probably be all set to go to something like the Gathering or ComicCon or such, but if not, then I'll stay local.

I obviously can't speak for everyone, but what stopped me from attending previous Gatherings was the fact that I didn't know or care about anything relating to Gargoyles until recently (as in, a month ago).

Even now, it costs quite a bit of money to get from where I am to LA, let alone pay for food, lodging, and registration. It's not such an issue now, since I actually have the money to spend, but I'm not entirely sure that I want to spend it going to the Gathering.

Besides, I'd like a roommate, and at this late date it seems unlikely that I would find one.

So I don't think there's much you guys can do to convince me to come, except maybe let me share your room, if that's possible.

Actually, that alone WOULD convince me to come...

Paul - [nampahcfluap at yahoo dot com]

BB > We're not like Comic Con where we've ever been unable to allow more people in, so don't worry about it "selling out."

40 days left until the 13th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles in Los Angeles, CA!

Patrick - [<-- Gathering 2009]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka

Sisi> The wedding analogy is an excellent one. I remember I felt that way when hosting the 2004 Gathering after planning my own wedding in 2003.

I'll echo Siryn's comments and question here: What would it take for you to attend a Gathering? What is stopping you year after year? I'm not passing judgement. I just want to know what to do to get you to come and enjoy the convention.

Karine "Kanthara" Charlebois

"""Brenda Bat from ToonZone?"""
Yup. The same.

"""At the door tickets are available."""
Have tickets ever sold out online before the start date? I want to make sure I don't miss it if I decide to go at the last minute.

"""I hope you come. I think it's going to be a blast."""
Thanks for the help, Greg. :)

I just found out that this is going to be the last Gathering. So now I'll definitely have to go for at least one day (I'm leaning toward Saturday because Crispin Freeman's panel sounds neat).


BB> Brenda Bat from ToonZone? I got a heads up you were gonna ask. Happy to answer your questions. ;)

<<-I like Gargoyles, but I'm not a total diehard fangirl. Is the Gathering just as fun for the casual fans? And how scary are the diehards, exactly?>>

I tend to think so. A friend of mine who is the same as you attended the 2003 convention had a blast. My brother occasionally goes and he has a good time.

As for how scary are the die-hards, well, it depends entirely on the die-hards. I won't lie, sometimes we have one or two, but mostly, and I mean very, very mostly... 99.99999% mostly, this is a very stable, and non-scary crew. A lot of cool people come year after year.

Not to mention, you'll get a chance to interact with members of the cast and crew, and they're all pretty damn cool.

<<-How is the dealers' room? Can you find a decent variety of non-Gargoyles stuff?>>

I don't tend to shop, but yeah, usually there's more non-Gargoyles stuff than "Gargoyles" stuff.

<<-How are the panels? Are there oppertunities to interact with the guests at autograph sessions and/or in the hallways?>>

I enjoy the panels. We're having a lot of them this year. And yeah, some of the guests do hang out. We also have mug-a-guests which eight people can sign up for. You can sit down at a table with a guest and ask questions or just shoot the breeze.

<<-Is it possible to buy tickets at the door or do you have to get them online?>>

At the door tickets are available.

I hope you come. I think it's going to be a blast.

Greg Bishansky - [<----- Gathering 2009]

I'm a little confused, so if some people here could explain overall reasoning? (I'm not trying to 'sound' antagonistic through typing. <:) Just honest questions.)

#1. Merged Conventions
I don't think this is a bad idea, in fact, it's been mentioned before, and I wished it would have been put in action earlier years, because it would be a great way of getting new blood into the fandom. My only personal concern is if we have attendance issues for a Gargoyles convention, sooo... with that.

How is it expected older fans will go to a non-Gargoyles convention? What would be the draw? I think it's great to get new fans/new blood into the fandom, getting them interested into the series and buy the DVDs and comics, and I think having meetups are cool, but I'm just unclear on if you can't get established fans to a current convention now, how to entice them to go to another convention? :) I agree some fans are diehards, but we could use a couple hundred diehards and not a handful. :/

(Please again, this is NOT being anti-new convention or against meetups etc., I think it's cool people are considering this option - some fans talked about similar meetups at anthro-con two weeks ago. It's just if getting people to a convention is already an established problem... how is that to be rectified? Or to convince a convention how you will get an established draw of people?)

#2. Convention versus Meetup?
As people have pointed out, 'fans don't go to panels'. (Now I personally disagree because I know I do, but I do know that there are groups that do not attend and that do not). My question is with this:

If you just want to have a reason to get together, do you need a convention to do so? Or is it a good excuse to get friends from across the place together? That's alright too. But it may be easier just to do personal groups? If panels or guests are not your reasons for going to a Gathering of the Gargoyles, how would you suggest having a meetup or convention and convincing fans to go and hang out?

#3. My question to everyone suggesting ideas but has not attended a Gathering/has only attended 1 or 2. :)
With all this planning, if there was another convention in 2010, would you GO to it? Would you absolutely find a way? COULD YOU go to it? Would you support it? (Again, no antagonism, if the answer is "No" then it's no, no big deal, and it doesn't mean your suggestions aren't helpful now, or wanted or you don't have a right to suggest them). I ask because as previously mentioned, attendance *is* an issue, money, *is* an issue... so how, as the 'target group' that any staff (present or future) would like to GET to ATTEND, how do we GET you to attend? :)

So, that's mainly my questions on the subject... it is a bit confusing to me because I'm hearing suggestions here that are the exact opposite of what was argued previously about what was wrong with the Gargoyles convention. I definitely would not WANT to see the conventions stopped, I'd love to attend future ones (especially since save for teleporters being created there is absolutely _NO_ way I can attend this con, even with my commitment as con staff.)

I think it's great people are discussing stuff, and I don't think the current staff is trying to discourage peps, just to relay a healthy respect of that this is a _huge_ commitment (Think of it like, planning a wedding (with similar size expenses) for 200+ relatives, some international, not all of them LIKE on another or want to have anything to DO with each other, and all have wants and needs that try as you might, as HARD as you might, someone will always be upset that they're the ones who have to sit next to crazy uncle stu.), that takes at least a year to plan, with a lot of issues surrounding it. <:) )


I'm thinking about attending the Gathering of the Gargoyles in August. But the official website doesn't give me a very good idea of what the con will be like. So I'm hoping someone who has attended this con previously can give me an idea of what to expect.

-I like Gargoyles, but I'm not a total diehard fangirl. Is the Gathering just as fun for the casual fans? And how scary are the diehards, exactly?

-How is the dealers' room? Can you find a decent variety of non-Gargoyles stuff?

-How are the panels? Are there oppertunities to interact with the guests at autograph sessions and/or in the hallways?

-Is it possible to buy tickets at the door or do you have to get them online?

I'm on the fence about weather to go or not. So any input would be appreciated. Thanks! :)


Not only is it original art but proceeds go to supporting the Gathering of the Gargoyles 2009! What are you waiting for? Do it! Do it naaooowww! (c) JibJab
Jade Griffin - [jade_griffin at hotmail dot com]
"Food, food, FOOD!!" - Jade Griffin, on many occasions

Hey, you Demona lovers! There's great pieces of art for sale now on the Gathering's ebay listing! It's somewhere in my link or ya can go and search via ebay. Get that original art!!
Jade Griffin - [jade_griffin at hotmail dot com]
"Food, food, FOOD!!" - Jade Griffin, on many occasions

Yeah, a place would have to have good insurance. We live in a sue happy world. Money talks. And not just to keep from being sued, but for damages caused by attendees. Its just too much red tape do it at a private venue, unless that venue has got the insurance to cover everything, but who wants the headache?

I have faith it will all work out in the end. Dedicated and driven fans can still work out something at other cons to add Gargoyles-related events/panels. The Gathering of the Gargoyles is done, but the fandom is not.


True for the entertainment. ;)

Yeah, I just wanted to get people thinking a bit. I guess we figured there might be another con next year/in two years, judging by the visible dedication, but if a large amount of money isn't at hand, it just might be a bit smaller... not to say tiny...

I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!

Yes, it is business. When it's not just my family and friends coming over for a party, it has to be treated as such. If I owned a castle, villa, or ranch... I'm sorry, but I'd not be making it available as a party center to anyone. There are potential legal liabilities I'd be leaving myself open to that my regular old homeowners insurance just would not cover. I love the fandom, but not enough to open myself to a lawsuit if John Q. Gargfan trips and falls down the stairs.

Similarly, I would never take it upon myself to prepare food for any type of get-together that is not restricted to invited family or friends. In most locales, licenses and inspections are required to serve food to the general public... and that all kicks in the moment you start charging people to get in the door.

But I really think we're talking about two different concepts here. There's informal get-togethers, and then there's full-blown conventions. But please don't expect me to believe that 30 people can be housed, fed, and entertained for 5 to 7 days for less than $1,000. An independent movie shoot is really not a valid comparison to a convention spanning multiple days.

Patrick - [<-- Gathering 2009]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka

"We have a meeting for our members every month that consists simply of lunch or dinner in a private meeting room at a restaurant or hotel followed by a technical presentation. These meetings last about three hours, are attended by anywhere from 40 to 70 people, and typically cost $1,000 to $1,500. So that's an example of what kind of get-together can be had for that kind of money."

Dude, but that's business. I've worken on films that included a cast of 30 people and lasted up to 5, 7 days, and all together, it cost 700, 800 $. It really depends on where you do it an how.

For example the new Garg-con-staff has to decide which size and which place to would be the best. Sure, a hotel has its pros, but also its cons. Private space would cost far less, yet is hardly obtainable.
Any Garg-fan with a villa or castle or ranch out there who would like to volunteer (just for an example ;) )??

The food: self-made (lotta work, but affordable if you ask local stores to go down with the price - friends of mine did that with the catering for one of their shorts, and they got food for 300$ per each day for free) or prof catering (less work and time, higher cost)?

Of course, the con might not feel too professional, but it might work for the quantity of money and time that is affordable.

So, if you get a place (say the HUGE mansion of a wicked Garg-fan who'd rent it for the con) and the food for a minimum amount of money/free, you've got half the thing carried. :)

Then has to be decided what fee attending fans have to pay. Is the prize lower for small groups, is the prize only carrying the stay and the food or higher etc. can attention be drawn from the media (by using flyers, stickers, spray-ons... where it is legal, people), potentially ensuring a rise in attendants, yet also eating a lot of time...

These things should be discussed and thought out.

Is viral marketing a thing to consider? Surely!!

I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!

And following up on that example I gave, I should add that members are expected to pay $25 to $30 apiece to attend each meeting, in addition to their annual dues to the organization, to cover the cost of the meeting.

Of course, everyone who attends that kind of a meeting is going to be local to the area. Few people would probably travel a great distance to attend a three-hour meeting compared to the number that would travel to attend a three-day conference.

Patrick - [<-- Gathering 2009]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka

"The Gathering of the Gargoyles" has been registered as a business name for almost nine years. Just as there would be confusion all around if someone were to start up a new car manufacturing company and name it "General Motors", someone wanting to start up a new "Gargoyles" convention would be wise to choose a new name.

Re: "I've seen films, books, comics and events being put together with an amount below 1000$ - so why not this event?" -- I also volunteer some of my time to an professional society related to my work. We have a meeting for our members every month that consists simply of lunch or dinner in a private meeting room at a restaurant or hotel followed by a technical presentation. These meetings last about three hours, are attended by anywhere from 40 to 70 people, and typically cost $1,000 to $1,500. So that's an example of what kind of get-together can be had for that kind of money.

Patrick - [<-- Gathering 2009]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka

@ purplegoldfish: Whatever and whenever another fan-Garg-con ist taking place, I hope you'll be in the staff. :)

Just cause you're a very polite and cool person. :)

Anyways, I'm also on the side of Mara. Why does a Con have to cost a thousand of dollars if all that it is, or should be, is an extended fan meeting? Sure, it'd be a lot smaller and all, but it's still better to have something grow up than to have something shrink down.
I've seen films, books, comics and events being put together with an amount below 1000$ - so why not this event?

I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!

I have a question for those who have been to the Gathering in the past. Now, I've seen online videos of parts of the opening ceremony, the banquet, and a few of the radio plays, but nothing besides that. Is it requested that people don't take videos during other events (like during panels)? I just wonder because since there won't be another gathering in the near future, it might be nice for those of us who weren't able to get to go to be able to see some of the other events that went on at the gatherings. Just wondering. And if there are other videos out there of other events, please let me know. I'd love to see them. :)
"It is better to have a horrible ending than to have horrors without end."

Jennifer>I am very sure it was a lot of work to get one panel. But its still a fraction of the amount of work an ENTIRE convention takes to run. One panel takes less volunteers than an entire convention too. And frankly, its a good baby step towards understanding how to run a WHOLE convention.

And just curious, not trying to be a smart ass, but is "The Gathering" or "The Gathering of the Gargoyles" really copyrighted? I doubt "The Gathering" is or can be copyrighted. But I don't think there is a need to get upset over people saying "The Gathering". I think its a bit juvenile. I know its yours, Patrick's, Greg's, etc baby, but let's try to stay on the mark here about the IMPORTANT details. We've been calling any mingling of fans a Gathering for well over 10 years now, telling people to just stop it is like telling a smoker to not light up.


Jennifer Anderson- There's a big difference being realistic and forthcoming and being rude and sarcastic. You can be realistic without being nasty and alienating people. For example, Shara wanted to put forth an idea and this is how you responded:

"Can we start using the term "CONVENTION" instead of "GATHERING" to talk about these other ideas??"

First of all, isn't there a nicer way to put that? She's not being demanding, just trying to help in a bad situation. If it were me I would have said "Thanks, I am interested in hearing what your ideas are, and I'll help if I can, but not with money. Oh, BTW, if you wouldn't mind, and this applies to everyone from now on, please don't refer to future conventions as "The Gathering" since it's a copyrighted name."

See, that was truthful and realistic without being rude and obnoxious. It really does seem like you're trying to chase people away from this.

Second: Do you personally own the convention? Because that's what you're acting like. Everyone appreciates all the hard work you put in but that doesn't mean you and others are the Gods of the Gargoyle Universe.

(BTW, Demonskrye, I wasn't referring to you at all. You're actually being tactful)


... and I'm better that 'tradition' carries on with the name "BLUE MUG Productions" as well... ;)

We're close to launching people. Sign up for notifications! :)

Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson - [<---- Blue Mug Productions]

The events on Saturday evening are open to all convention attendees age 18 and older. Calling it the "Blue Mug" is just tradition. It does not follow the same set-up as the daytime Mug-a-Guests.
Patrick - [<-- Gathering 2009]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka

Hmm, I'm still thinking about what I'm going to do. Much of my planning was dependent on having the Gathering of the Gargoyles 13-year pedigree behind it. Without that, Gargoyles doesn't really deserve a dedicated panel space more than, say, the Whedonverse (despite Greg's past appearances). So I pretty much have to rescind all my panel arguments to Demonskrye; on its own, the Gargoyles panels will have to be more general-purpose.

I'll probably still try to throw together some kind of pitch. I don't think the finances are quite as dire as Greg B says because I'm still banking of Greg W being a two-time Guest of Honor already. Sorry for throwing around the Gathering name in my first email, ZUUL. I honestly thought that was part of the bidding process. Still, the Gathering name clarification was required, for me at least.

Regardless, I'll try to throw together a Gargoyles party. If there's any midwest Gargoyles fans that can sorta-kinda guarantee they'll be at CONvergence 2010 and want to help organize a Gargoyles cabana party, email me. The whole con is really a riot.

And on something completely overlooked: the event schedule looks fantastic Patrick! There's almost no overlap for must-see events for me (except for the comic book Q&A and the future of Gargoyles fandom at the same time :cry:). It's really well laid out. One question, will the Blue Mug be limited to 8 people like the other Mug-a-Guest's?

Landon Thomas - [lumpmoose at gmail dot com]

Ok but im not calling you ZUUL LOL
Shara - [jeanie54_2000 at yahoo dot com]

SHARA - Can we start using the term "CONVENTION" instead of "GATHERING" to talk about these other ideas??

SIREN - I worked with a bunch of people who got "Roughnecks: Starship Troopers Chronicles" panel put in the Comic Con schedule. It was a blast but even then, with just ONE panel, it was a bit of work for the organizers to coordinate with the Comic Con Staff and such. Lots of fun though.

DEMONSKYRE - I really appreciate you being the voice of reason around here. Thanks.

Jennifer "Just Call Me ZUUL" Anderson
"If Weisman asks if you're a Bitch Goddess... you say 'YES'! "

At the risk of being something something:

The root of conflict here is not interest- it's financial concerns. Making it anything other than that invites a lot of name calling and holier-than-thouing.

Please, everyone, can we try not to make assumptions on the motivations and interests of other people whom we have not directly communicated with? Disagreements are fine, but putting words and thoughts into the heads of those we have conflict with is uncool.

I live in the center of the country- so it's not an issue for me where a convention is. But it is extremely difficult for whomever is on a coast (either coast) to travel to the other side of the country. That's just the way it is.

Those who don't want this year to be the last Gargoyles-related convention- don't be discouraged. Those who don't want to be involved in future Gargoyles-related conventions; don't get involved and don't discourage those who do.

Greg B: Be bailed out by the Gathering of the Gargoyles? Be a more antagonistic prat! Perhaps your expectations are different from others. Perhaps those who are enthusiastic about the idea of future Gargoyles-related events want nothing more than to sit in a room and talk fanfiction and draw. Perhaps they don't require a large draw, or many guests- but simply want a venue to discuss with other friends in real life. Maybe ConVergence is a good idea, maybe it isn't... but THAT isn't your con and it's not your call and realistic or not- unless you are going to be involved with trying that option, Stick your nose out of it! It doesn't EFFECT YOU.

Seriously. There is not going to be agreement between all parties.

Come up with another name- that's not hard. How about "GargCon" and leave it at that? This can be the last "Gathering of the Gargoyles" and if people want another con next year, let's start fresh.

*I* personally want Gargoyles-related events, because I am still a big fan of the show, and I don't give two dimes and a nickel over what it is called, or if there are guests, or if it's big, or small, or just one panel at another con.

So really... stop discouraging other people who also want Gargoyles-related events. It doesn't sound realistic, it sounds like it's your way or the highway-

and frankly, it isn't. If you are not interested- commit to not getting involved. Don't think raining on the parade of others is going to do anything if those parade participants don't mind getting wet.

"Can't we all just get along"

Not to interupt anyone.

I still have an idea. I have not posted it yet. Regarding a gathering. I am putting together a proposal. When I am done with it I will post it.

Shara - [jeanie54_2000 at yahoo dot com]

Just so I'm clear....When I said I didn't attend most the conventions because they were out of state, it was not a demand or a way to beg for it to be here. We had one here in Orlando, it was great. I simply can't afford to leave the state being a single mom and all. I don't think its right for people to demand it in their own backyard (if that is what some are doing, I haven't read the whole room, just skimming).

Having Gargoyles related events within another con doesn't even NEED a name, technically. Just getting a time slot and a room to have a panel or event is all you need. If you can get enough Gargoyles related people on a convention and up for a panel, you got it. Even just one Gargoyles person is enough. At the FX con with the Buffy stars, James "Spike" Marsters got a stage to himself to discuss working on Buffy and other projects. If you didn't get a seat in time, it was standing room only. You don't need to do some massive con within a con. Just get a couple of Gargoyles fans together to volunteer and help out the stars/writers/etc of the show, set up the rooms, clean up, etc.


Jen> I sympathise with your frustrations, but I don't think chalking the Gathering's attendance issues up to people who wanted it to take place it their backyards is going to help anyone. I have no sympathy for people who are lashing out at the Gathering staff over the convention ending, especially if those people never made any kind of effort to support the Gathering while it was around. But just as people chose to go to the Gathering for lots of reasons, people decided not to attend for lots of reasons.

Purplegoldfish> Though I do think emotions are still running high about this issue, I don't think it is anyone's intention to shoot down other people's ideas. I know it's not my intention at least. The thing is, hosting a convention of just about any kind is a huge commitment of time and money. You know as well as I do that no one is going to say "You want to put on a "Gargoyles" convention? Sure, I'll lend you a couple thousand bucks." Anyone who is seriously considering planning a "Gargoyles" con, mini-con, or whatever deserves to know what they are getting themselves into before they make a commitment. It takes a lot of time and planning and scheduling. You will probably need help, including someone who lives in the area where the con will be held. It costs money and you might not end up breaking even. The Gathering wa struggling with declining attendance, so any new con will have to figure out some way to deal with that problem.

Landon> For the record, I think most of you pitch sounds pretty solid. I think the "Star Trek" crossover appeal, as well as the numerous other great shows that the "Gargoyles" cast and crew have worked on - is a good angle, though I think you would need to convince a con to book more guests than Greg to really take advantage of it. I hope we will have more good "Gargoyles" news as 2010 rolls around, but the trades will still be relatively recent and help to enforce the idea that it's not a dead property. I still think it needs some tweaking to make sure that it comes across as a good deal to the con staff, but you're off to a good start.

Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
They go up.

Purplegoldfish: If someone lends ME a few thousand dollars I'll host another Gathering. ;)

Being realistic = shooting ideas down
Being honest and upfront = being rude

Sorry, I guess we're just not going to see eye to eye on this at all. My definitions are much different than yours.

Jennifer "Just Call Me ZUUL" Anderson
"If Weisman asks if you're a Bitch Goddess... you say 'YES'! "

Geeze, all I'm seeing here is people trying to come up with ideas and all the current staff is doing is shooting them down and being rude.

Hey, if someone lends me a few thousand bucks to get to the other side of the country and stay there for a week, I'll go to the Gathering this year.


Managed to place an order for "Gargoyles: Clan-Building Volume Two" at Left Bank Books (a small bookstore a few blocks away from my apartment) today. Assuming that the July 29 publication date still holds true, it's now just two and a half weeks away.

This might be an especially appropriate day to do it, since July 11 is the birthday of Robert the Bruce, one of the leading kings of medieval Scotland (though he hasn't been mentioned in "Gargoyles" - at least, not yet. But knowing Greg, with enough time and stories, he'll get in somewhere. I've sometimes wondered if Macbeth secretly returned to Scotland to help his countrymen out during the wars with Edward I that Wallace and Bruce fought in).

Todd Jensen

LANDON> First off, just to again make sure nothing is getting lost here. No one is stopping you from doing anything. The only thing you can't do is use the name "The Gathering of the Gargoyles." The name is not in the public domain, it is incorporated.

Jennifer is not trying to put the kibosh on anything. Is she harsh? Sure. But the cold realities of everything here are much, much harsher. If anything, she is being helpful by telling you what not to do, and the harsh realities of what to expect. She's been doing this for a decade, she knows what she's talking about.

I'll be honest, if I were running CONvergence, or any other small convention, and someone came wanting to piggy back or host a convention within a convention on my dime, I would not be very receptive to it. I'd be thinking of my convention first, and whether or not this is beneficial to us. The most I'd say is that if you want to do this, you have to pay to fly your guests and for the time you want in those panel rooms...

... and honestly, what would be the point? You may as well host your own convention.

In fact, when we were planning the 2003 Gathering, we got a similar request from someone who was trying to put together an "Aladdin" convention, and wanted to piggyback on ours. It never happened, and they had no real sales pitch. It felt to me like they wanted us to pay for their fun

So, Landon, if you want to do this, you better know what you're doing. You better come up with a hell of a sales pitch and tell CONvergence, or whoever, why this will benefit them. You better have a business plan. And you need to come up with a new name for the convention. As Jennifer explained, "Gathering of the Gargoyles" is not available to you.

Get a small staff together to help you out on this. And be prepared to commit, because as has been said before... Gathering of the Gargoyles, Inc. is not going to bail you out.

Also, be prepared to commit thousands of dollars up front. Because if I were running this other convention, that would be my requirement.

Good luck. You're going to need it.

But, I tend to think that if the interest was really there, everyone would be attending this year's Gathering.

Greg Bishansky - [<----- Gathering 2009]

To clarify a little what is being said, before tempers get too heated.

"The Gathering," at least under that name, IS through. That isn't to say that there cannot be a 2010 "Gargoyles convention or mini-con within a bigger one or whatever, but it would not be the 2010 Gathering of the Gargoyles. Anyone who wants to try to work out something for 2010 is going to be starting fresh, or at most, keeping the idea of a "Gargoyles" convention alive, not keeping the Gathering alive.

"Demands" may not be a good word to use at this point. "Requirements," maybe, or even just "Here's what we would need from you." I think almost any convention that agrees to host several "Gargoyles" panels or events is going to be helping out the fandom a lot more than the fandom would be helping out the con. All anyone can offer right now is very rough estimates as how many fans such events might draw to the con. It is not a sure thing.

To make myself clear, I don't think that there shouldn't be any panels. I'm just noting that I have read reports here that a lot of Gathering atendees were skipping a lot of the panels - in favor of events like the masquerade, dinner, and radio play, I would guess. So if you're planning on panels, I think you would have to consider really carefully what is going to be interesting to the most possible convention goers so you don't get stuck with a bunch of panels that even "Gargoyles" fans will pass on. This may require some research. Frankly, I'm still baffled at how many people who attended the Gathering evidently weren't reading the comics.

I think one of the Gathering's strengths for the people who attended, once it got to be a bigger event, was that you could go to one place and see a whole bunch of the cast and crew of the show, and later, the comics. This is part of the reason I am concerned about a con or mini-con with Greg as the only guest. You're going to have to offer something special so that fans don't simply decide that they could go and see Greg at another con and ask him their "Gargoyles" related questions there.

Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
They go up.

DEMAND: claim as a right
REQUIREMENT: a need or necessity

Not quite the same.

You were going to pass on your demands for "Gathering of the Gargoyles"? If you are intending to communicate with other conventions on behalf of the current Gathering of the Gargoyles convention staff, you really have no authority to do so.

I think everyone here is a little confused on what 'NO MORE' means as well. WE ARE DONE. You are FREE to go start up your own convention, name it anything BUT "Gathering of the Gargoyles" and have at it. We will help out minimally with information and direction, but we will not run your con for you, we will not be responsible if it becomes a financial money pit, we will not staff it... etc.

We are retiring from planning conventions, and that includes conventions WITHIN conventions.

The Gatekeeper? Greg is my very best and closest friend on this planet, but I am in no way responsible for him. He's readily available to anyone in this comment room. You won't find a show creator as easily accessible as he is to his fans. ... but I guess it's better to be the Gatekeeper than the Keymaster. :P

Jennifer "Just Call Me ZUUL" Anderson
"If Weisman asks if you're a Bitch Goddess... you say 'YES'! "

CrzyDemona: "Without panels and guests, it's not a convention. It's a meeting/sleep over/get together/reunion... etc."

Those sound like demands to me, or "requirements" if you prefer. Negotiations have demands, especially when money is involved, like with Guests of Honor. I was going to pass those demands onto CONvergence and if they accept, I would bid for the Gathering of the Gargoyles in 2010 as having met your demands. Isn't that how it's supposed to work? I thought a zero-revenue/little-cost con-within-a-con could breathe new life into the Gathering, but if you're going to put the kibosh on that now, fine. But you have to admit that you have some influence over future Gargoyles conventions because you're the gatekeeper to Greg.

Landon Thomas - [lumpmoose at gmail dot com]

I'm stunned that the word "DEMANDS" is being used. :: shakes head :: You don't go to someone seeking a favor and have "demands." The list of demands adds up to between $7500 - $10k of expense for the host con depending whether Greg will fly coach for anyone other than us. Nice. And with fan apathy at an all time high, this fandom has little to offer in return for such demands.

CONvergence is a 24 hour affair. It's also a MONEY MAKING affair with a ton of volunteers. Sorry, smaller cons have a staff that needs to eat and sleep at some point (those selfish bastards!!), so you can't have it all. At CONvergence, you also don't get to sit at dinner with Keith David and Greg Weisman, or watch Thom Adcox drop trou yet again.

... also, a little known fact. Without panels and guests, it's not a convention. It's a meeting/sleep over/get together/reunion... etc. If you don't want an actual convention, then just get together with friends, but remember that's not a money making venue in any way and you are stuck with the whole bill.

Also, I guess I should clear up that anyone wanting to do their own Gargoyles convention or add on to someone else's convention can NOT call it "The Gathering of the Gargoyles". That's legally incorporated and you would need permission to use it. As we do not want to be in any way tied up in someone else's debt, we are not going to allow the name to be borrowed or used. Sorry. You'll have to come up with a new name (and I'll legally fight on this one, folks, so don't try anything sneaky like writing people saying you are part of The Gathering in order to get your con agenda filled).

If you REALLY wanted a Gargoyles convention so badly, you might have supported/attended the one that was already going. I know, I'm talking crazy talk again. No one wants to go unless it's 5 minutes away from their house, so if we don't cater to that, then we're the bad guys. I get it. Believe me, I get it, ad nauseum.

Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson
"A gargoyles fan can no more stop asking others to protect the castle than breathing the air."

Landon> I wasn't aware of how CONvergence runs things, that there's a much larger number of fan-run panels. For the record, the conventions that I've been to, aside from some really tiny stuff that was just a dealer room, are San Diego ComicCon, BotCon - the Transformers convention, JoeCon - the G.I. Joe convention, and SPX - the Small Press Expo. All very different conventions, even BotCon and JoeCon. And some have even been different each year I've gone, due to variations in number of people attending, guests, where he con was held, where I was staying, what was going on with the property that year, and so on.

Looking over the panels from the previous two Gatherings, it seems like there are several each year that don't relate directly to "Gargoyles," but likely have a "Gargoyles" focus because it's the Gathering. I'm not sure panels on gargoyle biology or making custom "Gargoyles" action figures would go over at a more general con, especially if there have been a lot of people skipping these panels at the Gathering itself. So maybe the way to go there would be to try to have a more generic panel on a subject like action figure customizing or cosplaying with a "Gargoyles" fan as one of he guests showing off "Gargoyles" themed work.

If you do want to have five panels or events that are specifically related to "Gargoyles," I'm still not sure it's the best idea to have Greg at all of them. Aside from the concern of how each one would be different, having Greg there could sometimes limit what can be discussed. For example, if you want to have a panel about "Gargoyles" fanfiction, you would probably NOT want to have Greg present.

Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]

Hey, folks. No need to look at last year's schedule. A draft version of this year's Schedule of Events has just been posted along with yet another round of new guests!

Also, don't forget that the deadline for hotel reservations at the Hilton Los Angeles / Universal City is rapidly approaching. The cut-off date is July 23, 2009.

As always, click my name to visit the Gathering web site.

Patrick - [<-- Gathering 2009]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka

Demonskrye - Five is too many? Looking at the last complete schedule, I count over 20 panels: http://www.gatheringofthegargoyles.com/g2008/G2008-Tentative-Schedule.pdf

In either of my demand options, I said that we control the programming. If we then say "eh, one or two panels is enough, we don't actually have anything to talk about", then the Gathering is through.

The majority of panels at CONvergence don't have any guests of honor. Looking at this year's schedule, there's usually 10-13 panels going on at any one time and you're lucky if you get 2 of those with a guest of honor. The rest are run by enthusiastic and knowledgeable fans. If we get 5 panels and ALL of them have a Guest of Honor, it'd be a treat. And even if Greg isn't on all of them, we run our own wiki. I'm sure there are plenty of fans with an encyclopedic knowledge that would do a great job running a panel.

My point with the con-within-a-con idea is that it's still FOR US. I get the feeling that you want to impress everyone else. Sure, it'll attract new fans and that will be great, but I would hope that the majority of fans attending the 2010 Gathering will actually attend the 2010 Gathering, i.e. most of the panels. I would expect each panel to be so packed with boisterous fans thrilled to survive another year that there might not even be room for passerby. Otherwise, what's the point? You said yesterday that most people don't attend the panels. If even our own fans aren't that enthusiastic, then we should just stop right here.

As for the banquet, I only mentioned it as a possibility because I assumed people would really want to be there. It's not just to keep the attendees or guests busy. I don't know how it is with other cons, but CONvergence is a 24-hour affair. Any time of the day or night you'll find plenty of parties, raves, games, or conversation. Most people get barely any sleep for those four days (Thursday - Sunday) and take the following Monday off work. The convention never 'ends for the day' and I would expect the attendees (and guests) that are coming for the Gathering to enjoy themselves at the rest of the convention as well. In fact, the optional non-Gargoyles variety might make the Gathering even better.

Landon Thomas - [lumpmoose at gmail dot com]

Landon> I think five panels may be a bit much for one convention, especially if the only guest is going to be Greg. Depending on the con, you might be able to justify doing the same or similar panels on two different days if there were going to be a significant number of people who might miss it the first time around because they haven't arrived yet or were busy doing something else. But I'm not sure if there would be enough content for five Greg panels. If Greg is the only guest the con would be willing to pay for, I think starting with a smaller number of panels might be wiser, unless each one will be a really distinctive event.

Depending on the timing, the con could see it as a benefit if you offered to plan an outside event like a dinner with the "Gargoyles" guest/s to keep guests entertained after the convention ends for the day.

Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]

We also might want to flesh out our basic demands. Here's my idea, which should fit most conventions:

-they pay to fly in and house Greg Weisman
-they schedule 5 Greg-related panels that we control AND there's a party room for fans to meet
-OR they provide a dedicated room that seats 50 people that we control the whole convention

At this point, I think Greg should be the only guest. Asking them to pay to fly in Thom, Keith, Frank or anyone else additionally would screw our chances. We could hold fund-raisers on our own to pay other guests to come as 'attending professionals'. Also, the convention keeps all the money--Gathering attendees register through the regular system just like everyone else. The Gathering would generate zero revenue.

And this isn't a demand, but we will also participate in the masquerade and art shows/auctions like any other guest.

This still allows the possibility for Gathering fans to hold a banquet on or off site, depending on the space. I thought asking CONvergence to include a check-mark on the registration form where attendees could pay an additional $50 or something to attend the Gathering banquet. But again, we want to make our presence as uncomplicated as possible. However, that doesn't mean we can't go AWOL for 3 hours and steal Greg for our own banquet at another hotel.

Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

Patrick - During my first spiel to CONvergence, I said that accepting the Gathering would bring in 100-200 more attendees from around the world (based on current and past numbers). I also offered "contacts for a fabulous guest network, including luminaries from the animation and comic industries". I noted this year's guest list "includes Marina Sirtis, known to Gargoyles fans as Demona, the main villain. There are a total of 9 regulars from the first four Star Trek shows (TOS to Voyager) voicing characters in Gargoyles, providing an interesting juxtaposition to the science fiction themes of CONvergence. How many cons can provide Star Trek stars that are celebrated for something other than Star Trek?"

I also said "2-time CONvergence Guest of Honor, Greg Weisman" would probably be in the midst of season 3 production for "his current animated hit, The Spectacular Spider-Man" when CONvergence 2010 rolls around. As for Gargoyles, I said that with two new trade paperbacks (including an issue drawn by Christopher Jones, who's on their board of directors), Gargoyles is "the hottest it's been since it was on the air".

"The Gathering has occurred every year for 13 years all over the country and Canada, but not yet in Minnesota. CONvergence has a fantastic opportunity to both increase and diversify its attendance and save our one-of-a-kind convention."

I didn't say before, but I'll add for next time that CONvergence is Greg's 2nd favorite con after the Gathering. I would bet that Christopher Jones is the "buddy on the staff of CONvergence" that Greg rambled since they worked on Bad Guys and Justice League together. If someone who has Greg's email could confirm this, I'll appeal to Jones directly to increase my chances. I might email him anyway since who knows where the generic contact at CONvergence goes.

If anyone can think of any other angles, brainstorm them out. The most meaningful one is the 100-200 extra attendees, and that's not that great for a 5,000-person convention like CONvergence that sells out the hotel 8 months in advance. The #1 thing they want to avoid is complication. I think our best luck will be with a tiny convention where 100-200 more people doubles their attendance. But everyone should email their favorite local con.

Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

I would suggest that what needs to be brainstormed the most is how the idea of giving over money, time, and space to "Gargoyles" related guests and topics is going to be a benefit to these other conventions. We know it will benefit *our fandom* but what any group operating a convention is going to want to hear is how it will benefit *them*. From the smallest local con up to giants like Comic Con, any sales pitch is going to have to focus on what's in it for them to participate.

It's worth noting that there already have been "Gargoyles" related panels at other conventions happening for many years, starting as far back as the fall of 2000 at Loscon, to help promote the first L.A. Gathering in 2001. Most recently, last September, Greg Weisman and David Hedgecock discussed the comics at Coppercon in Phoenix, AZ... and a small group of people from the fandom "mini-gathered" there.

41 days left until the 13th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles in Los Angeles, CA!

Patrick - [<-- Gathering 2009]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka

Hey guys! I'm back from England and Ireland! Did you miss me? *reads back over the past few weeks* Whoa, looks like its been too busy for me to be missed :) Well, my trip was great. I did seem some gargoyles but it was day time so they were stone of course. And apparently little gargoyles you buy from a gift store are not the real deal... oh well, theyre still super cute!

Anyway, may I add in my two pence... er, cents?

Forum vs Comment Room > There are pros and cons either way. Sure, there have been some disscussions in this Comment Room that I dont really care to read but the feeling of this Room is much more welcoming than most forums Ive been on. One can get lost in a forum and just become a nameless voice in the crowd. But I feel that we're friends here, having real disscussions. On the other hand, a forum would allow us to become more organized and have even more disscussions, without shutting anyone out. Hmm... its a toss up.

Gathering's End > Well, Im very sad to hear that the Gathering wont be around. I only got back into Gargoyles two-three years ago and, as a poor college student, was never even able to give going to the Gathering much thought. I wish I had been able to go, sounds like it was a blast.

Gathering at Other Cons > I would be all for this, especially since my mom and I are planning to make our first ever trip to Comic-Con in the next year or two. Ill support that in any way I can.

Pros and Cons have been disscussed for having a mini-Gathering at an existing con like Comic-Con or Dragon*Con. Some have said that great things from the Gathering will be lost at a bigger con but my real question is: why hasnt this been thought of before? Even if certain elements are lost (like the Radio Play and certain panels that were big hits for the Gathering) I think it is far more important that we connect with big cons because they have so many people there, so many other fandoms we could introduce to Gargoyles.

Imagine this: At Comic-Con, there is a room set aside for all Gargoyle related things. A panel is taking place, with Greg W and others answering questions. A guest makes a funny comment and the entire room roars with laughter. A group (lets say dressed up as a Stormtrooper, Gandalf, and Harry Potter) passes by the door, pausing when they hear the fun that is taking place inside. They pull out their panel information packet, wondering whats inside. They read the blurb about Gargoyles and decide to check it out for themselves. The three step inside and BAM! We have three more fans to add to our fandom!

See how easy that seems? I think the pros far outweigh the cons in bringing a stronger Gargoyles prescence to big name cons. Sure, some things that long time fans of the series will be lost but I think its far more important to bring more people into our world.

Trades > OMG I CANT WAIT!!! Theyre coming out so soon! Are the Amazon dates now correct, of July 29 and Aug 5? I hope so. Ill be bothering my comic store every week. I preordered them before my trip so now Ill do my best to encourage the store to get copies. Cant wait!

<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs

I'd been thinking about the possibility of trying to get a few "Gargoyles" panels or events into another con as well. Since a lot of Gathering goers have apparently ben saying that they don't attend most of the panels anyways, maybe something smaller and simpler would be the way to go.

There would be downsides. You could probably never get a guest list like the one for the Gathering this year. The positive thing is that many of the people who worked on "Gargoyles" have been in quite a few other TV shows and movies. So you could have Michael Reaves as a guest and also, have him do a panel on "Batman," Marina Sirtis on "Trek," Keith David on "HALO," and so on. But I still think you would be looking at Greg, a couple of voice actors, a writer, and maybe an artist from the comics at best, unless it's a very big con. I'm also not sure how many cons could be convinced to book a bunch of "Gargoyles" themed guests - maybe the same guests - year after year. I think the chances might be better if there is something going on with the property, such as a big anniversary or the first graphic novel coming out (fingers crossed). Otherwise, the argument could be made that there would be nothing new t discuss at a "Gargoyles" panel.

I would be interested to hear which Gathering events are the most popular and I think it would be very helpful for anyone trying to plan a con or series of events for a bigger con. If the piggybacking on another con idea worked out, I think that a panel and maybe a dinner with the guest or guests could be worked out. You could have the masquerade if you had the space, but it might have to just become some cosplayers meeting up for photo ops. You could still do the anthology; just get a table and sell copies that way. Maybe you could do the same thing for a small art show/sale. The radio play might be out, since I don't know when you would have the time and space to hold auditions. You could just have the voice actors read a script at the end of the panel and maybe event pull volunteers from the audience to read other parts.

Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]



alpi - [alpayustun at hotmail dot com]
thank you

alpi - [alpayustun at hotmail dot com]

Anthony Tini> I suggested something similar after Greg made the announcement, but it went virtually unnoticed. There is Comic Con, Dragon Con, Mega Con, and many other cons that have always held special events for specific fan bases...Star Wars, Star Trek, Pokemon, Buffy:TVS, etc. So why not piggie back with other cons to have special Gargoyles events and panels? Frankly, isn't that what is already happening with this Gathering, with the Spiderman fans being drawn into a Gargoyles convention? Not only will it give the regular fans something to go to, but you are then opening Gargoyles up to dozens of other fanbases that have yet to be formally introduced to Gargoyles. Plus, if we can get people from different states to help get Gargoyles in not just ONE convention, but many, it means even more Gargoyles fan will be able to attend. I've only been able to attend one Gathering, here in Orlando. It was cheaper and more convenient. I just can get the money to make a trip to NY or California, or Texas, or Canada. Its not feasible with some people to following the convention. But if we get Gargoyles into different, already established, multi-genre conventions, I think the reach out to fans will extend much further.

In case it wasn't obvious, the best part about holding the Gathering at an existing con is it's essentially free: you're mooching off their hotel in exchange for the extra attendees. The downside is that Gargoyles is no longer the focus; in fact, a small minority will be interested. To pull it off, I need to determine what the core, most valuable parts of the Gathering are for people since every additional 'requirement' takes away from CONvergence resources and lowers the chance the board will go for it. I've never been to a Gathering, so I can only guess what these are.

That said, the board probably won't approve it. They're doing their own (increasingly popular) thing and don't need us. If people aren't willing to go with the partyroom-only idea (with a change that Greg won't even be in attendance), they should consult their own local geek cons to see if they'll provide a home in 2010.

Landon Thomas - [lumpmoose at gmail dot com]

Anthony Tini - I actually sent one proposal to CONvergence in June to do just that. I haven't heard back. We could just have a Gargoyles party room. There are plenty of esoteric party rooms every year: http://picasaweb.google.com/lumpmoose/CONvergence2009#5354497080773544770 That would be cheap and easy to coordinate compared to the Gathering. But if we want actual panels AND a budget to invite Greg as a Guest of Honor, it would require the con board's approval and coordination.

And there's the question of how many panels. In 2008, Greg was a Guest of Honor at CONvergence. There was one general-purpose Gargoyles panel and one general-purpose Spider-Man panel. No biology panel, no radio play, no banquet. There's a masquerade, but you'd share it with everyone else. If you want just a basic Gargoyles presence like 2008, they might go for it. If you want 8 panels and a radio play--like a real convention-in-a-convention--it'd be tougher to convince them that the extra Gargoyles fans attending would be worth it. I'm going to retool my proposal when the new Gathering event schedule is out. If people have ideas about how they want to present it, let me know. I'm currently thinking I'm going to shoot for a larger party room and just hold panels in there, which has been done before. But space is limited (the hotel sold out in November 2008 for the con in July 2009).

As for Comic-Con, Greg usually goes anyway, so that would be fine. But while it would be cheaper for the Gathering to host, it would be MUCH more expensive for the fans to attend. Comic-Con is as big and expensive as they come.

Landon Thomas - [lumpmoose at gmail dot com]

Pardon my ignorance since I know nothing of the organization that goes into the Gathering, but moving forward, would it be possible and more economical to integrate what was known as the Gathering of the Gargoyles into a special place at Comic-Con International each year?
Anthony Tini

Venus> Well, I think that there are two things going on. One is that the news that the Gathering is ending this year has a lot of people showing interested in hosting a new "Gargoyles" convention who wouldn't have done so when they just assumed that the Gathering was going to be around forever. The other is that, at this point, it might actually be easier - or at least equally difficult - to start up a completely new convention rather than host another Gathering. That doesn't sound like it makes a lot of sense, but the Gathering is currently in debt, which wouldn't put the staff for a theoretical 2010 Gathering in a very good position. I don't know exactly how it works; whether the next Gathering end up having to pay off the debts of the previous one or the debts are always just paid out of the pockets of the staff for the year that went into debt. But either way, the new Gathering staff gets no war chest and inherits a con that has not been making money. The one thing the Gathering really has to offer at this point is the experience of the people who have done it before and it seems they are offering to give their advice to anyone interested in trying to run a new convention, so long as they don't have to get involved in actually making it happen. So maybe a fresh start and the complete freedom to do things differently from the way they've been done in the past is a good and necessary thing.

Patrick, is there any word on whether someone starting a new "Gargoyles" convention would legally be able to call it "The Gathering of the Gargoyles"? Or would it need to be something like "GargCon"?

Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]

Volpe> Gathering in Key West? If you can get that together, I will totally be one of your first attendees. ;)

Yanno, with all the comments here about people being willing to run their own...I wonder if many people didn't really understand the whole bidding thing?

I mean...you guys do know that the staff is different everytime right? I mean, there are some people who volunteer to be on staff nearly every year or so and there's a decision board type thing and what not...but the core staff is usually different each year (though there are totally repeats who are quite awesome to be willing to go through multiple migrai--err, gatherings. ^_^

Venus/Rika - [VenusAD at gmail dot com]
I keep putting the code in the signature....urg. Oh hey! My last day at this job! YAYS!

VoLpE > If you send a message to "staff@gatheringofthegargoyles.com" we can send you our advice.

42 days left until the 13th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles in Los Angeles, CA!

Patrick - [<-- Gathering 2009]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka

Oh and just to let you guys know, I'm interested in trying to organize another Gathering for next year. It'll probably be a bit different than previous ones but with that said, if I'm able to put one together, I'll try to make sure that it's an awesome experience for everyone attending ^^ Thanks
The Game...what's up with that? Who's his manager: Milton Bradley? ~ Edge,WWE

Hey guys, I've been doing some thinking and I think I'd like to try learning what goes behind organizing a convention. I live in Key West, Florida and I also work at a hotel (Southernmost Hotel, to be exact) which means that I can get discounted rooms and group rates. Mind you, we only have one conference building that's about the size of a meeting room but I think I can work something out. And since this is in Key West, I think it'll be a unique and fun experience ^^

Anyone willing to lend some advice, just let me know and I'll display my email addy

The Game...what's up with that? Who's his manager: Milton Bradley? ~ Edge,WWE

Another interview with Greg, this time on 'Shear Strength': http://tv.ign.com/articles/100/1002428p1.html Apparently they shot tons of behind-the-scenes footage. I don't know if he means the DVD crew shot it or Greg's people did it on their own dime.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

Hey, guys. Sorry for abruptly changing the subject.

I imagine that quite a few of you will be attending the Gathering of the Gargoyles next month, so I trust that I am allowed to voice some concerns about that.

I guess you get this a lot, but I'm looking for a roommate or two, if anyone is willing to share their room.

I'm also wondering if anybody from Iowa (like myself) is going to the convention. I have done some traveling alone, but I want to know if there are alternatives.

Paul - [nampahcfluap at yahoo dot com]
Paul - nampahcfluap at yahoo dot com

And now for something completely different...

I saw "Titus Andronicus" lst night, and it was, in a word, "Amazing."

the Incomprable John Wright (And if you don't know who that is, you haven't been to our Shakespeare Festival!) played Titus, and, as usual, he was spectacular. He always is.

In one scene, Tituas and some minions fling arrows above the heads of Rome, mostly at the Emperor. In stead of arrows, the used toy soldiers with parachutes!

Another wicked scene was when Marcus Andronicus Opens the Box wioth Titus' two sons' heads in it. They used actual bloody heads, not real but much more than fake... murders stunned the crowed with "real" blood, and, for the most part, the whole play featured special effects... much better than they normally would use.

I was enthralled, and i am going to go back next week! I think this is one my favorite plays of the Bard. I have now seen almost half of his plays!

It's too bad more of you aren't closer to Edmonton and you could come see the plays each year... they really do a grand job.

The plays are out in Hawrelak Park, under a big canopy. Last night it poured rain, but the show went on!

John Wright, a 35 year veteran of the Canadian Stage, plays a part or two each year. He was Prospero, Oberon, King Edward and Titus. He was also in The Assasination of Jesse James, too.

I can't speak enough of his acting or the quality year after year of the plays.

IF you ever venture up this way, like next year, check out both plays (this year a festival pass was $30 Canadian, ($25ish US) a superb deal for two plays).

YOu could go shopping st the West Edmonton Mall in the day and see Shakespeare at night!

Anyway that's my hometown rant.

battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.

I don't post very often, but I still check in every day. I don't have much to add except that I like the Comment Room the way it is.

Alex Xanatos turns 13 today! Happy Birthday, Alex! (And to me, too.)

Phil - [p1anderson at go dot com]

One of the nice things about the comment room currently is that feels more like a real conversation with everyone in one room and various topics splintering off from the first one and joining back together.

One of the bad things about the comment room currently is that it's like a real room with numerous conversations going on simultaneously. Imagine three groups people talking to you at the same time about completely different subjects and you trying to follow all three conversations simultaneously. Or trying to have a conversation while four people nearby are having a screaming fight.

I think a message board could cut down on a lot of the confusion the current comment room sometimes breeds and potentially reduce the number of people who feel ignored. I know I would have an easier time remembering to respond to posts if I didn't have to remember three other topics I wanted to reply to or if I could easily see which comments were new and which ones hadn't been responded to yet. And I think there are people who would feel more comfortable joining in conversations if they could easily read through all the posts on the subject that had been made before rather than having to dig through the comment room archives and try to pick out what comments pertain to the topic they're interested in.

I don't think having both a message board and a comment room would work. We're a small fandom as it is and I don't think we need to be more fragmented. I doubt most people would use both equally, so you would end up with some people talking in one and some people talking in the other without much overlap. And if Greg Weisman only wants to use the comment room, it's going to have a huge advantage.

Whatever happens, I think their needs to be change. I do not agree that the comment room works just fine the way it is. I don't want to see another major argument happen. Yes, all forums have their fights, but this one really took over and got way out of hand before anyone stepped in to stop it. And I've never been in another forum where trolls were able to come back and harass the regular members repeatedly, knowing that no one is ever going to make them stop. If the comment room stays as it is, fine, but if it doesn't also get some enforced rules, we're just going to keep running into the same old problems again and again.

Demonskrye - [<---Secret of NIMH at The Ink and Pixel Club]

I think the CR has long since seen the good days pass.

It's so hard to follow all the different discussions, with 4 posters talking about 5 topics in 3 posts, and if you can't make it for 2 days, it all just goes messy, and things opened are still not fully closed.

I mean, we just talked a bit about how a GARGOYLES-live ction movie would look or what would be cool, but befor we could go anywhere with it, yet another topic came along and sort of "erased" the old one.

Therefore: Forum/message board.

I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!

I still dunno how to vote. My nostalgia is warring against my understanding that a forum WOULD work better. Especially for moderating when the occasional lamer wants to come in and start stuff.

dragon/gargoyle costume> Those eyes are SO ADORABLE. I am in pain from the utter cute.

Venus/Rika - [VenusAD at gmail dot com]

I voted No. I'm an oldbie and I admit to not liking change. S8 is the last bastion of the old guard Internet type of board and I'd miss it if it went to a standard forum. However, I won't shed any tears if it does change.
Dasrik - [vm_postitnotes at yahoo dot com]
The whole world has to answer right now.

The person who made my unicorn costume just unveiled her newest work. She calls it a dragon, but it looks a lot more like a gargoyle!



The costume was made for a commission. But her stuff don't come cheap. No idea how much that one cost, but my unicorn was $2800. I am going to send her the deposit soon to start making me a jaguar/saber tooth cat/gargoyle beast costume soon. I am expecting that one to cost at least $2500. But the quad-suits (4 legged suits) do cost more than the two-legged one, often twice as much. But its so worth it! If you click my name, the link will bring you to my youtube with video of the unicorn costume.


I remember seeing reviews on here when season 2 started airing in January in other countries (probably because the episodes immediately popped up all over the internet with Sony/Disney not paying any notice).

IGN has good reviews and interviews with Greg on each new episode: http://tv.ign.com/objects/142/14262849.html#all_articles Lots of fans talk about it on ToonZone as well: http://forums.toonzone.net/forumdisplay.php?f=83 Thankfully the screwed up release schedule hasn't killed the buzz. But my guess about the lack of discussion on s8 is that so many around here are such fans that they couldn't wait and found other ways to watch it. I mean, we've had season 2 spoilers in the AskGreg queue for months.

I personally do get Disney XD and am watching the shows.

Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

Darn you Matt -- I was just going to stake out that spot myself d: **unveils sleeping bag**

Off Subject -- Is anyone currently lucky enough to catch Spectacular Spider-Man on Disney XD? I know not everyone has cable or satellite (or a broad-enough channel range, which is my own particular case). I'm curious because I've noticed that there hasn't really been reviews posted in here like there were during the first season.

Outside of second season spoilers (which, now that its airing in the US, I would hope it wouldn't sting as much), I can only conclude that those in here who followed the show in the first season just don't have the new channel. :(

"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka

Also, I've posted here before. I just changed my name, the old one got boring :P

Just wanted to say that I also completly agree with Spen's last post. All of it, but particularly:

If it ain't broken, don't fix it.

I voted to keep things as they are. Clearly, it has worked this long.

And I wonder if breaking up the Room into a forum would only serve to further breakdown and seperate different groups or cliques within the fandom. That is the last thing we need. United we stand.

I don't feel the Room is or has ever bee disorganized, save the few times we've had polls going or whatever, but Gore has obviously found a solution to that.

*Imagines sadly the Comment Room being partitioned off into numerous "organized" cubicles... Dibs on the cubicle with the cookie table..."

Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"We are clan. Family. That is something you forgot long ago." -Goliath, 'The Reckoning'

Rebel> Just for the record, I DID vote yes. Do I LIKE forums? No. But I think change is a good thing, and I'm willing to except it and try something new.

rawrieatu > It's not that your opinion doesn't matter. It's that your opinion is not well-informed. Speaking from my own personal experience, discussing things in this CR can be a confusing hassle sometimes. If I have multiple points I want to make in a single post, I have to do things like this:

Demona's Second > blah blah blah
Lex's Sexuality > blah blah blah
The Last Gathering > blah blah blah
CR or Forum > blah blah blah
The Pack's Chopper > blah blah blah

...and so on and so forth. It gets irritating and lengthy. I often have to open up more than one tab in my browser to make sure I don't leave out a point I wanted to address, because I don't like having to double post. It's often hard to keep track of all the topics I wanted to address, because everything is discussed on one page, whereas in a forum, every topic would have its own thread and I could easily go into threads that interest me and quickly post my thoughts on the topic without ending up with some massive wall-of-text post that has multiple different topics and points in it.

Another problem is if I want to talk about something, but there's a heated discussion going on in the CR, my discussion point might get lost, ignored, or overlooked in the argument. With a forum format where I could make my own thread for the thing I want to discuss, my topic wouldn't get lost. I still might not get many responses if no one is interested, but it couldn't be overlooked like how it is in the CR.

What I'm saying is, when you're a person who actively discusses multiple topics in this CR as opposed to just reading it, I think it can change your perspective on whether the CR is a good format or not, because you experience the difficulties and conveniences of using the CR to discuss things.

I'm not saying that everyone who has actively discussed multiple topics in this CR, or who has ventured forth a topic but it got overlooked, is necessarily going to vote "yes." That would be condescending and I wouldn't suggest such a thing. Spen is a prime example. While I don't agree with his opinion, I completely respect it because he has been an active part of discussions and often discussed multiple topics in one post, so he has a well-informed opinion and understands the strengths/weaknesses of using the CR to discuss things.

The people who only read the CR and never (or almost never) actively use it to discuss have not experienced what it's like to try and use this CR to discuss things. And I think that if they WERE active participants in discussions and DID use it to discuss things, it might alter their opinion. It might not change their opinion, but at least their opinion would be well-informed and I could respect it completely since they know what it's like to try and discuss things here (i.e. Spen and Ed).


Spen> I completely agree with your opinions of forums. I prefer the CR.

Rebel> I understand your point, I really do. But, just because we don't post regularly means that our opinions don't really matter? Or am I just reading that wrong?


Spen, then you haven't been on the forums I have.

Many forums allow you to subscribe to threads you have posted on. Or haven't posted on if you want. When you subscribe, you have the choice...get emails when people post, or just go to the site and click on "View Subscribed Threads" and then you see if new posts have been posted and boom, your there. You never have to worry about forgetting where you post. Gorebash is a Master Web Master (hehehe), I am sure he can make a forum or find an existing forum script that allows subscribing to threads.


Allow me to post an opinion then.

I'm completely opposed to the idea of making this into a forum. For one thing, I've always found forums to be far more difficult to follow. With all the separate topics, it's rather hard to remember what you've read and what you haven't. In this room, I just have to remember whose comment I read last if, like in the last two weeks, I fall somewhat behind in my reading. On a forum, I'd have been completely unable to catch up fully, and while I can't speak for anyone else, if I haven't read everything, I don't believe I have a right to post. For another thing, we really don't have enough people to really make a forum useful. In my opinion, all it would really do is make things unnecessarily confusing for us regulars.

Plus, I've never liked the general message board format. It's always been highly off-putting to me. Actually, I've never posted on any regular forums mainly because it just didn't feel very "welcoming". By contrast, this room always made me feel more at ease, to the point where I felt I could post. As this (and the TGS room) are the only places on the Internet where I post at all, that is a rather important element for me.

Also, I'm a traditionalist. This format's worked fine for the last thirteen years: why fix something that isn't broken?

Finally, with the vote as close as it is, whatever Gore does is going to tick off half the room. Personally, I would add a link to Brook's forum on the main page. Then, those who like the forum idea can go there quite easily, while those of us who still prefer the CR can stay here.

And, with that idea, all Gorebash really would have to do is add a link. He wouldn't have to design a new page, re-train himself on everything, etc. I just think it would be a lot less work for all involved.

On a completely different topic: (which incidentally is another thing I like about this format: you can post about several things at once, instead of having to dig around for the appropriate threads. Very useful when you're short on time.) Anyway, after fourteen years of endless applications and interviews, I finally got a second job! I'm now working at Winegard, a local factory that makes TV antennas. Unfortunately, that means I can't post here very often anymore, but hey, if the Gathering ever makes a comeback I can *definitely* go now!

Speaking of the Gathering, I was quite saddened to see that this would be the last year (for now, at least). While I never attended myself, it has always been an event I would have liked to have gone to, and I'd like to take a moment to thank the Gathering staff for keeping it going this long, and by the majority of accounts, putting on a darn good event for everyone. Thanks, guys & gals!

It's just a shame that I didn't get this job a couple months earlier. I'd have loved to go this year (even though it is in California, the state I swore I'd never set foot in again). Still, after a couple of paychecks, I should be able to buy a supporting membership. And if something does get going a few years down the line, you can count me in to assist in any way possible. Granted, my experience at running a convention is nil, but if nothing else, I could possibly help to bankroll any future convention.

One other topic from the week before last caught my attention. Several people complained that they had been "chased" from the room by the "old guard". Now, I've been a poster in this fandom since 2005, and a lurker since '02. In that time, I can't say that I've seen anything close to what certain people were claiming. Yeah, a few people have been yelled at, and in some cases "chased" out of the room, but with one possible exception, every one of those times was in my humble opinion, justified. Kevin Conner, anyone? Arlo? They were most definitely not the sort of people we could have as regular posters. And the claim that this room is unwelcoming to newbies? I found that to be pretty far from the truth. My experience as a newbie was rather good overall, I felt. Okay, I didn't become best friends overnight with everyone here. Yeah, Greg B. has yelled at me on occasion (though only when I've done something to deserve it, and he always has a good point, so I'm actually rather thankful that he's been there to point out my frell ups.) But really, I've never once felt unwelcome here. And if some people in the room seem overly trigger-happy at times, keep in mind just how many trolls we've had over the years. A little suspicion would only be natural. And in my experience, it's been *very* little suspicion.

I guess that's all for now. I'd better be signing off now. (Since I'm now getting up at 4 AM, I can't post as late as usual anymore.)

"What if this wasn't a hypothetical question?"

Siren > I don't consider you a lurker. While you aren't the most regular of posters, you've also been an active participant in many discussions that have taken place in the CR. As someone who has used the CR for both actively discussing and lurking, you have a greater understanding of the strengths/weaknesses of the CR. Thus, your opinion is more well-informed than someone who never posts. Your opinion matters plenty.

Rebel> We're all fans, whether we post in the CR or not. I've actually been here for a couple years, but hardly posted. Mainly because I'm the youngest one here. Also, I just don't pop in here 'every once in a while'. I pop in everyday, to see what's new. I, of course, cannot vouch for other 'lurkers', but I personally am quite up-to-date with the going-ons of the CR.

I am one of those rare posters. I voted for a normal forum. I love this place. This was my FIRST message board I joined. I was 16. I am now 30. But the times I do discuss things here, I find it frustrating how quick discussions just get cut off. Not to mention, I don't want to read or be involved with every subject discussed. Having a forum gives the place a bit more organization. So instead of doing:

Gargoyles Movie>

We will have topics. Things won't run into eachother. I remember when Steve Irwin died and myself included, a lot of people were discussing it. And a few were tired of it, frankly, sick of hearing about him. So I and others felt hushed to appease others. If we had topics, then those who don't like a topic, need not have to read it at all. They can just avoid the topic all together.

And I say this as a long time member/supporter/fan of S8.org, even though I barely post. That doesn't mean I should have less than equal to say. I know I often don't post because usually, someone already said what I believe and all I'd be posting is "I agree!", that hardly seems worth it. If you think my opinion counts for less, well, then don't read it. If we get a regular forum, put me on ignore and the rest of us "lurkers" if we don't count for that much anyways.


Indeed, but it hardly seems fair to me that a person who never posts here gets an equal say in what happens to this place as those who contribute regularly. I hope I don't offend anyone when I say this but I think the people who actually use this place, for both posting their own thoughts and reading other people's thoughts, have a greater vested interest in what happens to this CR. Also, because we actively post, read, and discuss, we have more direct experience with the weaknesses/strengths of the CR format as opposed to those who just pop in and read every now and then. I prefer that the comment room become a message board, and having just gone back and reviewed the CR from the last few weeks, most of the people who disclosed their opinion agree (I counted 9 yes opinions and 2 no opinions, though I may have missed some accidentally). However, "yes" is only just barely winning.

Rebel> Just because someone doesn't POST in the comment room doesn't mean we don't exist. Or that we don't care. :P

Well Rebel, just because people don't post in the comment room doesn't mean you don't come here and read the comments... I'm sure there are a lot of lurkers out there. Like me, I rarely ever post in the comment room, but I come here to read it at least once every few days. (Mostly to check on when the comics are coming out, and anything else new going on with Gargoyles) I voted that the comment room should become a message board. But really I guess it doesn't matter to me. I know Greg doesn't even like message boards. But really, to me, messages boards are a lot more organized then this comment room. You have different topics for different subjects. Not like this comment room, where everything is in one page.
Audra - [birdygirl85 at hotmail dot com]

Okay, I really think something fishy is going on. The poll Gorebash posted has 81 votes. Even including people who only pop in occasionally, I don't think there are 81 people who post here.

Thanks for the response Patrick.
Lurker - [johnr783 at hotmail dot com]
I have officially lost my namesake.

@ Battle Beast: For a hillarious spoof of it, chck out Pynchos CRYING OF LOT 49. The novel's centerpiece is mentioned spoof, and it's damn funny.
I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!

I am going to see Titus Andronicus tonight at the River City Shakespeare Festival. I can't wait! I have been waiting for them to produce this play for years. It's most likely Shakespear's oldest Tragedy, and many feel it wasn't even done by the bard... its violent nature, deaths, rape and mutilation make many people think differently about if the Bard wrote it or not as it is more violent than many of his other works. It was one of his most popular plays, too. I will give my review tomorrow.
battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.

Well, as Batman Begins is my favorite movie *ever*, I don't feel the need to explain my position very much. Different strokes for different folks. Burton's Batman may have not been very camp compared to Schumacher's, but it is still pretty damn camp.
Dasrik - [vm_postitnotes at yahoo dot com]
RIP Michael Jackson

I saw Ice Age 3 last night. It was okay. Many plots points and jokes felt really contrived, but overall I still had quite a few laughs. I liked the new Weasel character introduced in this movie much more than the two possums introduced in the 2nd movie. One thing that I found particularly impressive was that the movie actually had a funny gay joke (which wasn't offensive). Do you ever have those moments where you feel all warm and fuzzy inside because you see a shining example of society making progress? Well that's how that joke made me feel.

Incidentally, if you do go see it, don't see it in 3D. The novelty wears off quick and then your eyes are burning.

Did anyone else see it? What did you think?


Lurker > You're welcome to film anything you want unless it's something that we specifically ask not to be filmed. In particular, the no-go items would include certain video showings at Opening Ceremonies, the Art Show (no cameras, video or still are allowed), and the "adults only" panels on Saturday evening.

We'll be posting a convention schedule before the end of the week. As always, panel sessions kick off at noon on Friday, so plan your arrival accordingly.

45 days left until the 13th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles in Los Angeles, CA!

Patrick - [<-- Gathering 2009]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka

Brook - I saw both movies...but Bale's scratchy "I'm being grizzled" voice killed any awesome his Batman could have had for me.

I mean, I admit, yes, kicking butt and taking names (or not taking them--I don't really see a difference there) is always awesome, but that's not about the actor, that's about plot and choreography. And still has nothing to do with the fact that Nolan's batman is just...kinda dumb. Sometimes he doesn't know things that are just...so painfully obvious--I picture Alfred sighing in a fatherly patient manner as he has to explain yet another thing to him...again.

Also, I couldn't get over the fact that in Begins, his mask had this really awful tendency to squish his cheeks in. That....that is not badass to any degree.

Venus/Rika - [VenusAD at gmail dot com]

a sad garg> "it sucks that this is going to last gathering this year T_T"

No kidding.

Keep hope, though, that maybe we'll get another Gathering in some other way, shape, or form some day.

KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.

it sucks that this is going to last gathering this year T_T
a sad garg

Since Batman and the Nostalgia Critic were brought up, I was wondering if anyone here ever saw the two videos titled GNN. It's a tv news parody done by the same actor who plays the Critic. He plays Lori Prince who has a discussion with fictional characters regarding issues found in the world:

- This video has The Joker giving his view on violence in the media: http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/thatguywiththeglasses/sketches/868-gnn-interviews-the-joker

- This video has The Mad Hatter and March Hare defending the legalization of drugs and their use: http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/thatguywiththeglasses/sketches/1526-gnn-mad-hatter

Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
Algernon's comment about Norman Osborn: One of the neat things about Dark Reign is that it gives Osborn the chance to expand his horizons beyond tormenting a twenty nine year old who still lives with his mom.

@ Rika: Uhm.. Bale is a pretty badass Batman, did you even see BATMAN BEGINS? I mean... guy battled the League of Assassins... all drugged up... pretty badass, to me...

Anyways, here is the link to the Kevin Smiths interview: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgYhLIThTvk

And even though what he tells sounds bad, judging by his writing, I guess the Superman movie he would have written by himself would have been just as bad.

I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!

"And Don't call him Superman" HAH!

Oh, Karine's comission price already went up...curses! I'm not sure I can bid myself, though I want to...*ponderponderponder*

Re: Batman - The Nostalgia Critics comparison pretty much sums up my opinion. The worst part of the Christopher Nolan movies was Batman himself. Christian Bale is just SO not Batman, although he couldn't possibly do a worse job than Kilmer or Keaton *shiver*. I really try to pretend those didn't happen. Ever.

But bringing Batman back to the basics? No way. Batman is a genius. A detective. He started out in detective comics...and yet in the Nolan movies he needs everyone to explain everything to him.

And HE TALKS TOO MUCH. What ever happened to Batman being mysterious, complex? Where Keaton could just give an expression and you knew there as all this angst and meaning behind it, but you...really didn't need to hear him go on about it for the next 20 minutes?

I looooved the Nolan movies. But the Burton movies just took you to another place and another time. They felt dateless and embraced the comic feel while still staying creepy and believable.

Okay, maybe the penguins were a little much....but in the end, Batman is about , yanno, Batman. If you don't have a fantastic Batman, it just falls short for me. No matter how ridiculously awesome your villian is.

Venus/Rika - [VenusAD at gmail dot com]

Patrick> "All I have to say about changing origin stories is go look up the Kevin Smith thing on YouTube where he talks about how he was asked to work on a Superman script... and the director he was to work with didn't want "any of that flying crap" and "don't call him Superman." :P"

I have no real comment to make about that except to say that I would swear off superhero movies forever if that was to ever see the light of day...

KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.

I plan on going to the Gathering. Now, let it be known, this is an idea that I completely volunteer for if it is possible.

If not, ok thats cool. Here goes. Would it be ok to keep a semi up to date clips of the Gathering on Youtube throughout the weekend? This of course bars the exclusive things like Bad Guys, although that kind of doesnt matter now with the trade. Maybe Greg will let someone film it since it may be the last Gargoyles convention.

What I am talking about is the Mug-a-guest panels and whatnot. I was thinking, if it is ok with everyone, including the guests, that I could upload the segment after the panel is over. Would that be ok?

Also, where can I see the intinerary for the weekend? I would like to know the times for everything so I can book my flight accordingly.

Lurker - [johnr783 at hotmail dot com]
I have officially lost my namesake.

Just in case this was missed last week in the midst of Transformers and speculative Gargoyles Movie talk...

The Gathering Auction continues! There is a gorgeous print by Mary Caldera, of the character Yvette from K.T.'s fanfic of Gargoyles in New Orleans, starting at only $5. There is also a sweet Magneto ACEO/Art card (Yes, it's X-Men, not Gargoyles, but it's still wicked cool) by the talented CK Russel, also starting at $5!

And, last but not least, our current auction features a custom commission by me! Current bid is at $36. The commission is for a one character piece done on 9x12 bristol, in ink and marker, done in a 10 business days delay from the winning of the auction. I don't currently take commissions because I am too busy with everything else so if you want me to draw you something, take advantage of this slot!

The Gathering of the Gargoyles Online Auction is here: http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/gargoyles-convention

Happy bidding, and best of luck!

Karine "Kanthara" Charlebois
I kick ass and take names.

I saw William Shakespeare's "A Comedy Of Errors" last night at the River City Shakespeare Festival Here in Edmonton. I LOVED IT!!! It was awesome, hilarious, and better than I thought it would be!

They typically do two plays per season (Late June to End of July). They are also producing "Titus Andronicus" which they haven't done before, and I am tickled pink to see it on Thursday night. Woot!!!

battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.

@ Harvester: On a second note - it REALLY depends on the studio boss nowadays. Look at how most of the Marvel-universe-films were treated, apart from the first 2 X-MEN and SPIDERMAN. Daredevil, Fantastic 4, Electra... all pretty bland and uninterresting films, which were only done to bring in money. I've not yet seen HULK, but considering Ang Lee's other work and what friends told me about it, it's a pretty interresting drama.

With X3 and SM3 (muahahahahaha, sorry, puberty took over), the studio went back and tried to do as many bucks as they could for the first weekend, and failed miserably!!

And NOW look at how Warner treated the DC material. A LOT better... (Cat-who?? What film?? Doesn't exist, never heard of it.)

I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!

@ Harvester of Eyes: Seriously - I LOVE this film!! If it wouldn't have been for this film, Batmans rep might have been dropped a lot!!!

The film is a singular artistic envisioning of one of the - no, THE most kickass super hero ever to be!! EVER. Personally, I preffer BATMAN RETURNS, which I still think is the best superhero.comic adaptation to date, along with THE DARK KNIGHT. It's arguable if the character of Burtons Batman is better than Nolans, but I think the eyecandy of Burton outdoes Nolans first Batman for sure.
And if you pick up ARKHAM ASYLUM, you can see what he was influenced by exactly, especially if you look at his second Batman effort.

The Watchmen script by Hamm is... absolutely... utter... crap!! It ends with all of the cast being teleported into another reality, which is OUR reality, ending on a similliar scene as Burtons pretty bland PLANET OF THE APES ended. You can imagine it. It's floating around, if you check the watchmen-movie-blog-fansite, I think it is on there.

@ Patrick: This interview alone caused me to hate Kevin Smith (that and his films... and his comic books...). Even though he's a good storyteller and funny, he's making an idiot out of himself there. The Superman-stuff is pretty spot-on though. And that wasn't the director, but the producer of it, who later on produced, umh... Batman $ Robin!!!!!!!!!! :D XP

@ Todd: Have you ever heard of the summary of screenplay the Hollywood scriptwriters did of SANDMAN?

I seriously wonder about Hollywood. I mean, they spent millions of Dollars on films, yet they let writers onto ambitious source material with a huge fan following who seem to throw the script together on the base of a short synopsis of the main plot line.

I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!

All I have to say about changing origin stories is go look up the Kevin Smith thing on YouTube where he talks about how he was asked to work on a Superman script... and the director he was to work with didn't want "any of that flying crap" and "don't call him Superman." :P

46 days left until the 13th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles in Los Angeles, CA!

Patrick - [<-- Gathering 2009]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka

Todd: I think it depends upon the director. I don't think Tim Burton had ever really read any Batman comics except for Alan Moore's "The Killing Joke," and Frank Miller's "The Dark Knight Returns," and from there, he just made Gotham City his emo-Goth playground. Though to be fair, I wonder how much of the Joker killing Batman's parents was his doing, and how much was screenwriter Sam Hamm's. I read somewhere that Hamm wrote a screenplay for "Watchmen" around the same time as the 1989 Batman movie was released, and his script involved Rorschach surviving at the end.

Anyhoo, the point is: I felt Chris Nolan's movies brought Batman back to the basics of the character, and both stylistically and storywise was better than Burton and Schumacher. So, in the end, I think it depends on the producer and director, and what sort of movie they're trying to make.

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"'In the end?' Nothing ends, Adrian. Nothing ever ends..." -Dr. Manhattan ("Watchmen")

I actually think that a movie about stone Gargoyles who accidentally get brought to life would be really interesting.

But, I would hate to see that happen to THESE Gargoyles.


Knowing Hollywood, it's possible that if they *did* make a "Gargoyles" movie, they might change the gargoyles' origin to something like "Architectural stone gargoyles get brought to life by a freak accident" or "The gargoyles are ordinary humans who get mutated into gargoyle-like beings by Sevarius under Xanatos's instructions".

Or maybe they won't go that far; they haven't yet come up with drastically different new origins for Superman (leaving out Krypton) or Batman (leaving out the murder of Bruce's parents).

Todd Jensen

@ Rebel: I side with that. If it sparks a trilogy - very well. But apart from that, I think the film version should be very... well, as I put it earlier on, "Dark Knight-esque", a reimagination of sorts.
I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!

I also generally prefer series to movies. However, a Gargoyles movie (it it was well-made) would be a great idea, because it would get a whole lot of people interested in Gargoyles again, which could lead to some really great things (IF the movie is good):

1. Increased sales of the Season 1 and Season 2: Vol 1 DVDs, which could lead to Disney finally releasing Season 2: Vol 2.

2. Increased sales of SLG's Gargoyles comics and trades, which could lead to SLG (or any other comic book company, for that matter) deciding that it's worth it to re-buy the license from Disney, which would mean more Gargoyles comics. Perhaps the artists could get paid more for their work, which would likely mean they wouldn't have to have "day jobs", which would mean the comics would be unlikely to suffer so many delays--in my opinion, the frequent delays probably played a big role in the falling sales of the Gargoyles comics and thus their subsequent discontinuation.

3. This one's a long-shot, but if a Gargoyles movie generated enough interest in Gargoyles, we MIGHT see the show go back into production again, as well as Disney airing the old episodes at a decent hour.


Brook> I try to write with a mind to what would actually work well, not just a bunch of stuff I would want to see. It's just one scene in a movie that does not exist, so I don't think you can really fairly judge whether it would or wouldn't work within the context of an entire movie based on "Awakening" without knowing what I plan to add, change, or leave out.

Anonymouse> I'm not looking for just a pat on the head. I'm fine with constructive criticism, especially with something I'm actively trying to edit and improve on. I guess I just wasn't expecting to be told that my whole idea was bad and nothing else.

I don't think anyone is saying that a "Gargoyles" movie is the number one way they would like to see "Gargoyles" come back either. It's not my first choice. A new TV series would be ideal, but it seems like kind of a long shot right now. We were discussing a different existing property that was remade into a live-action movie or two and we got to discussing the potential for a "Gargoyles" movie. Plus, there was a "Gargoyles" movie in development once. I think we can talk about what we would like to see from a "Gargoyles" movie without implying that that's something we would want to happen over a new TV series.

Demonskrye - [<---"The Secret of NIMH" at The Ink and Pixel Club]

If you only wanted a pat on the head and not a discussion, you should have said so beforehand, or posted it on FFN (so those theoretically don't accept script format).

I don't see why everyone is clamoring for movie, a series generally offers much more freedom in story-telling, fan service and exploring different things.


@ Demonskrye: Don't feel bad about it - I'm sure that Anonymous, just as me - is less looking upon your desires than what would and could actually work well. :)

I've got a long list of things which I'd love to have seen in S1, for example an entire episode pre-massace focusing on all the different Gargoyles and later re-introducing them (notably with Coldstone in S1).
But I think it just won't really work on in a film. Sort of how many elements of TWILIGHT which were in the book (never read it, but have at least checked wiki to get some info on it ;) ) felt unintentionally hillarious, because... well, things feel different in different mediums.

I still think, for example, that the entire idea of AVALON and the Avalon clan could never be faithfully explored in a film, even though many of my favourite episodes are from that period. Even if you would make a 3 hour movie, it just wouldn't work. I'd friggin love to see FUTURE TENSE being turned into a film one way or another, but the outcome would just... well, be unintentionally hillarious and gimmicky in the context of the other films. :(

I can see why people want to see more of the clan, more of Desdemona/Othello/Iago, would like to see Coco in the clan, would like to see Desdemona survive, would like to see Angela to be there from the start... but it would take a lot of force to actually put them in there, and would rather be a fanboy service than a working storyline.

Which brings us back to why Gargoyles is SO good in the first place: the pilot alone holds potential for a 5 hour film. But if you apply realistic thinking to it... it's just incredibly hard to not get into what I earlier described as "check-mark-mode", where you just stuff all the plot points in there to please fans.

I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!

No, really. I don't want to discuss it anymore.

I just wrote this little script and posted it here for fun and because I thought other people might enjoy reading it. It's clearly not my life's work or anything I could ever do something with, but it's still a little disheartening when the only responses I get amount to "I think this is a bad idea because a, b, and c." I appreciate your opinions, but since I will probably never be asked to write the script for the "Gargoyles" movie, I don't see that much point to going over all the reasons why it wouldn't work. So again, I would rather not talk about it anymore. Thanks.

Demonskrye - [<---"The Secret of NIMH" at The Ink and Pixel Club]

Movie - Maybe the Movie could start off with Flashbacks with Goliath narrating the Massacre, put under a sleep spell, waking up a 1000 years later, protecting the city ,Angela and Avalon ect . Then just cut to the present day with a new story (whatever that could be) then at the end of the film fans of the movie (who never see the cartoon) would rush to get the first season and second season vol 1 DVDs or maybe a prequel could be made.
VickyUK - [vickyfanofwwe at aol dot com]

I agree with that. And the question would also be "Why introduce all these characters just to kill them again." We already are affecte by it just considering Goliaths reaction, and with some more cameos, it wouldn't really be necessary.

BTW, whoever thinks he will react different to a GARGOYLES trailer than this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFG9lXc2upQ

Please, hands up.
*mine stays down* ;)

I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!

The one and half first episodes Gargoyles spend in the middle ages was already surprisingly long given the series premise of these seemingly fearsome creatures being displaced in time and space. Afair, Greg said in the commentaries that they actually were a bit worried the audience would get a completely wrong impression of the series based on it staying in the past for so long and therefore added the Elisa scene at the beginning.

Imho, really introducing the Gargoyles in the dark ages would take a movie of its own and to me personally that would be not as interesting as Gargoyles in the present times.


Movie> My intention was to spend a little more time with the Wyvern Clan pre-massacre and have enough scenes with Hudson's mate that the audience would know her at least as well as they know the main characters. But at this point, I'd just as soon stop discussing my ideas for a theoretical "Gargoyles" movie.

Landon> To be fair, he does seem to be having an off-model day, so maybe that's affecting his mood.

Demonskrye - [<---"The Secret of NIMH" at The Ink and Pixel Club]

Has anyone ever noticed in the Disney Afternoon logo that Goliath looks like he really doesn't want to be there? http://www.talespinhq.com/General/DAgangFull.jpg
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

@ Anonymous/Demonskrye: This is exactly what I meant with my earlier post - even though fans are very likely to enjoy the inclusion of these moments (at least on papaer) they translate pretty bad to the big screen.

Also, if Desdemona would be included, the amount of alienation and reclusenessness would be a lot smaller. These 5 Gargoyles were what we perceived the last 5 remaining Gargoyles on planet earth from what we knew during S1, and that added a lot of claustrophobia to the entire thing.

I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!

But unless there would be a Dark Ages spin-off. We wouldn't see Hudson's mate either, nor would we have had enough time to get to know and care about her. She'd just be the "token dead"/"red shirt" character.

Additionally, in your scenario he just found out that nobody beside the trio survived and instead of going with the revenge and rage still fresh in him. You ground the thing to a halt by doing another scene of something we already saw few moments before. Him dealing with Hudson's grieve at that moment feels to me like a stopper in the rage, it would take time to gain that momentum again and make his later rage believable.


Anonymouse> There is a method to my madness and it's twofold.

1) It's a compare and contrast thing. Mature as he is, Goliath is still young, the kind of guy who is going to be very vocal and demonstrative about his loss, at least until he's reminded that he still has the remnants of a clan to look after. Hudson is older, which spares him the feeling that he didn't get a fair amount of time with his mate, but also - in my mind anyways - makes his grieving much more quiet and private.

2) Demona is presumed dead, but actually survives. Othello, Iago, and Desdemona are all killed, but come back as Coldstone. Fact is, we haven't yet met a single gargoyle from the original Wyvern Clan who didn't subsequently show up in the 20th century in one form or another. I'm sure there are any number of reasons for this, but my feeling is that if the same idea was in the movie, you would have audience feeling like all the "important" gargoyles survived and the ones who died and stayed dead were just a bunch of extras. I want there to be at least one real character who was important to one of the survivors who dies in the Wyvern Massacre and never comes back. If you'll pardon the expression, I want to put a face on the massacre, and not one that we're going to see again down the road.

Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]

What do we need another dead female Gargoyle for? Goliath's roaring and "My Angel"-spiel was exactly the same. It's pretty redundant and far too close together.

I don't think there's a need to pay special attention to a new female Gargoyle. Just show them in the fighting scenes with the vikings. The cartoon didn't really have any there and it managed till the end of the first season before introducing us to another female Gargoyle beside Demona


Gargoyles Movie> I am probably thinking about this way too much.


GOLIATH has just gone through his "My angel of the night" and roaring thing. Overwhelmed by grief and anger, he seems at a loss for what to do.

BROOKLYN (offscreen): Goliath!

GOLIATH snaps out of his daze and turns in the direction of the voice calling his name.


THE TRIO and BRONX stand alongside the castle at ground level. They have clearly seen the devastation that took place as they slept and are stunned and horrified.


GOLIATH glides down from atop the castle and lands in front of THE TRIO and BRONX.


LEXINGTON (quietly, hesitantly): Did...did anyone else survive?


GOLIATH (gravely): No.


BROADWAY: The old soldier, he was with you, right?


He looks over his shoulder, suddenly realizing that HUDSON is not with him.



THE CAMERA PULLS IN past the shattered remains of countless gargoyles to focus on HUDSON, kneeling by what was once a gargoyle's perch. He reaches slowly down to pick up a stone fragment.


The fragment is a face, half or more of it gone, but still recognizable as HUDSON'S MATE. HUDSON touches the fragment with his other hand, gently stroking its cheek.


Still kneeling, HUDSON holds the fragment to his chest and closes his eyes in silent mourning. GOLIATH lands in the background, visible only from the chest down. He pauses for a moment, the walks over and lays a hand on HUDSON's shoulder.

GOLIATH: I am sorry.

HUDSON says nothing, but he rests his free hand on GOLIATH's and pats it once. He gently and reverently sets the fragment down. THE CAMERA PANS UP as HUSDON stands and faces GOLIATH.

(Then we get everyone together and Goliath has his "save the humans/have our revenge" line.)

Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]

Wow, feels like forever since I last commented.

(10th? Maybe not.)

>Forum vs. Comment Room: Speaking purely for myself, I would be much more likely to come in more often and discuss things if I didn't feel like every comment I made had to live up to some standard of comment-dom. (Plus I just prefer a forum layout, easier to respond to other people, easier to post.) And I think this could lead to a lot more discussion. So that's why I voted for forum.

Movie> I actually think the movie could be an interesting opportunity to explore the characters in another light. And in a more stream-lined way. I liked everything you said, Ed especially. I'd love to see them explore Desdemona further outside of the Coldstone plot line too, just because that was an element I thought was always lacking from the show. (A stronger, more maternally-driven character. There was Katherine but she wasn't in the show that much.)

Gathering> Sorry to hear the Gathering's been 'cancelled' for the time being, I wasn't under the disillusion I'd ever have been able to go (at least not for a few years), but still sorry to see it gone.


(9)Ninth to the end!
Vinnie - [tpeano29 at hotmail dot com]

Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1 at sbcglobal dot net]
Chuck Norris has never been denied anything. NOT EVEN REVENGE!!!


I just read the last two months' worth of updates from Greg W. Damn, now I really wish I'd gone to The Gathering when it was in Montreal. Can't really afford to do L.A. this year (if I could, I think I'd go for D23 if I was gonna go to a Disney-related convention--although there's no telling what sorta tone it might take on and what kind of fans it might attract, the ones at The Gathering might be a lot more fun). Well, I guess I could afford it, but credit cards and lines of credit aren't for abusing anymore. Trying to live debt-free.

The guest list is mighty impressive and the slight possibility that it's the last (or at least the last of The Gathering in its current incarnation) make this one even more appealing than some really appealing ones in the past.

Kris - [plekopleko at hotmail dot com]


"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka

KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.

The One Known As Mochi - [shogi dot keima dot 08 at gmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>T.T)> Recovering from Anime Expo...

Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Farewell, my enemies!" -Macbeth Robot, 'The Price'


1st :D
VoLpE - [sailorx78 at hotmail dot com]
I didn't see any pie...I saw a lot of pie CRUST...