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The Phoenix Gate

Comment Room Archive

Comments for the week ending October 5, 2009

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Speaking of Michael Bay, turns out he is the producer of the remake of, *sigh*, A Nightmare On Elm Street. *sigh again.*
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1 at sbcglobal dot net]

@ Ed: I think a lot of it comes with the german language. It's pretty strange... some actors play well, but the moment they open their mouths, it sounds as if the words don't fit the scenes at all. At least that's my interpretation, the film is loved by critics and viewers abroad, yet over here it was treated like some Michael Bay film, with a fixation on the kid-killing scene. Apparently, this very scene was laughed at during a critics screening... which even I, as somebody who disliked the film and that scene, found a bit... disturbing...

Actually, THE STRATOSPHERE GIRL is pretty cheap:

Definetely a must see. Even if you happen to dislike certain elements of the film, it's a unique and thrilling view. :)

I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!

Knew I'd forgotten something obvious: "Anne of the Thousand Days". Stupendous film.

Brook: Interesting about "The Downfall" being panned. I found it grimly fascinating and, as you say, well acted. Thanks for the recommendation of "The Stratosphere Girl". I hadn't heard of it but I'll check it out.


@ Rebel: Yeah, i think so too... I don't even want to sound THAT negative, after all I'd give the movie a 60% review. It's just this feeling that, whilst the book is so daring in many places, the film plays safe... Something which I also found obscure with the first two Harry Potter films... these really tiny to medium changes whcih don't really affect the outcome, but the feeling of story.
And I was very mad with the film changing Vs plans from... no spoiler, "gigantic" to a typical 101-plan... But yeah, it is definitely a well made film, at times really good adaptation, and was up to that point the best Moore adaptation.

In general, I find adaptations of such a daring source material pretty weird... there are only few films where the writers are capable of changing things, yet contributing to the general atmosphere of it... BATMAN RETURNS is one of those, to me... as is Kubricks LOLITA... or DON'T LOOK NOW...

OH, and yeah, check out Dark City. It's how I envisioned the atmosphere of Gargoyle Season 3 to turn out. It's like Burtom meets Blad Runner meets Film Noir.

I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!

I liked both V for Vendetta the film, and V for Vendetta the book. I don't find that I like one substantially more than the other. I saw the movie before reading the book--I think reading the book first might have caused me to have a different opinion.

My favorite movies are "Batman Begins" (yes, more than "The Dark Knight"), "Casablanca" and "Sleepless in Seattle". That much is certain, unless filmmakers somehow outawesome these in the next 15 years (not likely). Everything below that just keeps shifting.

And yes, "Casablanca" is that great. War, romance and comedy (without entering that godawful territory of "romantic comedy" that most people fail at) rolled together in a great package. It was my favorite movie until "Batman Begins" came along.

And happy belated B-day Mr. Weisman. ^ ^

Dasrik - [vm_postitnotes at yahoo dot com]
Move fast-forward through thecameraeye...

@ LYNATI: WHAT?? Those actually DO exist?? o_O Cool. I wondered how TGS would have handled the material after S3 ended... I envisioned it to be a lot darker, but, oh well...

@ Pheonician: brace yourself for some downers then, once you've read V FOR VENDETTA, the film feels like, well... you know that moment when you saw that trailer from ARMAGEDDON, and then the film? It's kinda like that... ;)
Jokes aside, the film is a really poor, toned down and crowd-pleasing affair. It's not even that bad a film on itself, but the decisions they made when it came to changes are just revolting, cause, well, they made them out of no other reasons than to please a mainstream audience... Which put me a lot more off, even though the quality of the film is quite good.
As for SAW, there are a variety of Asian films from the late 90s/early 00s and Italian films from the 70s that inspired the film. In contrast to most of my friends, who hate the film, I thought it was OK but a bit disappointing regarding the hype. So, yeah, I encourage you to check out some of those asian and italian films, cause if you loved SAW; those might be really, really up your alley. :)

I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!

According to the time and date site (linked on my name), the Hunter's Moon would have been 18 October 997 (13 October in the Julian calendar).

Random question for the room: How many garg fandom chat rooms out there are still active? I'm link-hunting to update a Links page.

Necros: You were not the first person to consider cross-posting TGS to FF.net, as in, the remnants of the TGS had discussed that like, two or three years ago, and nixed the idea for a whole slew of reasons. And announcing your idea a here before even contacting the TGS staff about it? ...yeah, nice call on that one. We could have saved you some trouble.

However, the idea of posting some of the next season there [which *would* have the permissions of the individual authors involved] with a link back to the entire TGS website is still being considered. Just, you know, we need season 4 done first. : P

Lynati - [Lynati_1 at hotmail dot com]

The Old Farmer's Almanac names this weekend's full moon the Harvest Moon rather than the Hunter's Moon. The next full moon won't be until November 2.
Todd Jensen

Todd: **smacks head** [SPOILER] Hunter's Moon, TOTALLY spaced out there . . . you can ignore the Battle of Rathveramoen out from my post d: [/SPOILER]

Sticking with "coincidences," this weekend also seems to be the Hunter's Moon (so early it seems, anyone know if October going to be a Blue Moon month this year??)

"The suspense is terrible . . . I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka

PHOENICIAN - I know the feeling (of course, when the room's less than forty-eight hours away from being cleared, people may be less eager to make posts).

Where did you learn that the Battle of Rathveramoen was fought on or around Michaelmas? I couldn't find any mention of its date in the comics (the closest was [SPOILER] Constantine speaking of the Hunter's Moon in the sky above, and the full moon's a movable event rather than tied to a specific calendar date [/SPOILER]), and when I checked Greg Weisman's list of events that took place on Michaelmas and Michaelmas Eve, there was no mention of the battle on them.

Todd Jensen

Aw, nuts . . . and I effectively killed the room. d:

Side thought, but I was musing it during the Duncan/Gillecomgain discussions -- this week was not only Greg Weisman's birthday, the following day was Michelmas -- a major day for Gargoyles history. Seriously, a ton of the events discussed this week occured on or around the September 29th in the Gargoyles timeline . . . Constantine's usurptation, the Battle of Rathveramoen, Macbeth's corronation . . . I found the timing to be interesting. :)

"The suspense is terrible . . . I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka

Not going to do a TOP ten, but here's a list that I've particularly enjoyed for some time.

PIXAR -- Let's start with the obvious, and I am totally a PIXAR junkie. While I like some films in their collection more than others, they have been one of the most consistent studios ever. Got to visit PIXAR Animation Studios back in 2007, and I have to say, it's like walking in Willy Wonka's Chocolate Factory -- full of wonder and ingenius creativity that's totally just hidden in an industrial area of Emeryville. My personal favorite is A Bug's Life, with a three-way tie of Monster's Inc, WALL-E, and Ratatouille for second. I just saw Toy Story/Toy Story 2 in 3D yesterday, and I loved every minute of it.

Patriot -- American Revolution is my favorite period in American history (anyone see HBO's John Adams? So awesome!), so of all the Mel Gibson's films, this is my favorite. Not that I don't love Braveheart (historical inaccuracies aside, its Scottish history and Gargoyles has only cultivated that enthusiasim). Beyond my own appreciation of the time period, I'll end this minireview with a quote about South Park: "Say what you want about Mel Gibson, but the son of a b*tch knows story structure." d:

High Noon -- Favorite Western. At one point this baby was considered the most un-American film ever, by John Wayne no less. Maybe its the subtle critique it takes on the Hollywood blacklisting, of which Wayne was a supporter. Funny thing about that un-American comment, as Presidents Eisenhower, Reagan, and Clinton were all big fans of the film. Beyond the politics of the film (and I apologize if I've pushed that boundary in here), you just gotta love the music, which apparently was a hit when released BEFORE the film, which is odd, cause the lyrics are just so darn specific to the plot of the film. You gotta wonder just how much he's driven by duty when the entire town is just ungrateful for everything he's done for them. *sigh* What's left to say other than that I'll take Gary Cooper over John Wayne any day.

Collateral -- I'm not the biggest Tom Cruise fan, and I haven't seen too many Jamie Fox films, but I enjoy this one for that it's got too opposing characters stuck in the same taxi. Story driven by the back-and-forth of these two characters, and I'm on the edge of my seat. Love it.

Saw -- I've only seen the first two, and the second one wasn't bad, I don't think (though its been awhile), but I've seen the first one several times by now. It's now a favorite every Halloween. This film works for me cause its mostly two characters trying to figure out how to get out of that bathroom and at the same time not tell each other the truth to the other.

Silence of the Lambs/Hannibal -- I've yet to see Red Dragon, but I imagine I'll love it as much as these first two. Hannibal is creepy and murderous, but the films (more so the second)is a poetic romance, and its creepier and scarier than ever when you realize that, more scary than when you see the bloody atrocities take place. As for the first film, the back-and-forth between Clarice Starling and Hannibal Lector is the real, um (horrible pun, folks) meat of the film. d:

Hitch -- I don't see too many romantic-comedies, but I will admit I'm a romantic sap . . . I guess I just don't indulge in them as often d: Nevertheless, this is a recent favorite of mine, if for the wonderful back-and-forth between Will Smith & Kevin James. Again, another favorite that took advantage on the simple back-and-forth.

Cinderella Man -- After the American Revolution, the Roaring Twenties/Great Depression is my next favorite period in American history, so there's some treat in that. I also consider this Russel Crowe's first real good film since Gladiator. Fight scenes are amazing, Paul Giamatti steals every scene he's in, and being a true story, it just as powerful as it needs to be.

V for Vendetta -- From the little research I've done, it seems they've deviated from the original source material enough to discourage original fans of the comic AND the creator Alan Moore. Though I've yet to read the original comic, I can tell you I want to now. Maybe I'm a fan of all the symbolism, maybe I'm just a Guy Fawkes enthusiast (I want to read Equivocation, another Fawkes-inspired story), or maybe I just like violent death and explosions. In my opinion, it may have its issues, but its still not a bad combination :)

Pirates of the Caribbean trilogy -- More than likely, the first film was the only film that actually had a SCRIPT, but after taking a classics course that allowed me to present to the class a compare/contrast of the Pirates with the Odyssey, I now see these films as a Greek epic in the Caribbean. With vengeful sea gods, sea monsters, maelstroms, cursed treasure, and even a journey to the Davey Jones' Locker these films really are one of the few pirate films to take advantage of pirate mythology, and I love it. And seriously, Jack Sparrow has got to be the cleverest, luckiest, and arrogant sailors since Odysseus. Hans Zimmer does a superb job with music as well (a a fair amount of his stuff is similar sounding, it fits Pirates just right).

Aladdin -- It was the first film I ever saw in theaters, so it holds a special place in my heart. It's also my favorite from Disney's second Golden Age of the late-80's-bulk-of-90's. Though I would place Scar as one of the most vicious and evil of Disney villains, my favorite in the end is Jafar, whose megalomania is perfectly matched with that maniacal laugh of his d: Tons more I could say about this film, but its there.

The Bourne Trilogy -- Despite its vastness in locations (I actually put pins on my Google map on all the locations Bourne went to in the three films), its got a relatively small cast, which is what really makes it work. That, and the fact that the Jason Bourne films really are self-aware of the genre its in and gives the audience a chance to really think about the so-called glamor of the secret-spy-agent. Anyone notice that Bourne never actually KILLED any of the big bads? He's killed and knocked out 'assets' and local police, but the guys responsible for making him who he is? Nope. And considering the genre of the film, that's kinda heavy.

Godfather/Godfather Part II -- I've yet to watch Part III, and I don't intend to anytime soon. I also don't have too much to add when it comes to the awesomeness of these two films, but if there was one thing I wish was included the first film, it would be the deleted scene where Vito visits Genco's deathbed. That said, I haven't seen it, and I don't know if it was ever released as a special feature on DVD, so I don't know if it even had the right caliber for the film -- for all I know, it was a rare weak moment that was better removed from the film . . . I'm really just musing.

Not like the film needs an obvious foreshadowing of bad things to come, but I'm a big Tom Hagen fan (Robert Duvall is just awesome in these films. Then again, so is the rest of the cast) and it would have been nice to have seen Vito give the consigliere post to Tom following Genco's death (it would have been nice to see Genco in the first film). All things considered, I'm not hung up on the deleted scene as the film is already beyond brilliant and again, whatever they did film could have been unsuitable for the final film (I really have no idea, but I figure its best not to assume that it was a missing masterpiece or something)

Hmmm, that was longer than I thought it would be -- I'm no expert on films, but I do appreciate them . . . wish I could see more.

"The suspense is terrible . . . I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka

But all mentioned movies are in a completely different category then Metropolis. All those movies are real world movies (which is one of the reasons I didn't watch them). Metropolis is a science fiction. In that regard Uwe Boll's movies are really closer to Metropolis than the directors of the others mentioned.

@ Ed: Life of the Others is amazing and very realistic!!

Goodbye Lenin was OK but, well, if you've seen Life of the Others and are aware of some historical facts, the film is a bit... uh... not so good...

As for the Downfall, the film was torn to shreds in germany, from the critics and viewers. Personally, I found it to be dull and drenched in pathos. It's got some good actors in there though. :)

THE STRATOSPHERE GIRL is another great german film, it's pretty much the lost twin to LOST IN TRANSLATION, shot at the same time. Look into it through imdb, it's truly amazing.

I'm really surprised CASABLANCA gets that many shout outs. I don't hold that much value on it, but it's somehow cool to see it up here so often.

I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!

I have a quick question for the room: I was telling my girlfriend about a piece of art from this year's art show that made fun of a scene from the movie "The Emperor's New Groove." Apparently, she didn't see it when we were there, and that's one of her favorite movies. Does anyone know if the artist who did the piece has it posted on DA or some other website?
Harvester of Eyes
"Yeah, you're right about that part. I am not fit to wear the uniform. And maybe I never was. Then again neither are you." -Apollo ("Battlestar Galactica")

I have not yet posted my favorite movies yet, but "The Shawshank Redemption" is MY favorite movie. I watch it Every year on my birthday!

OK, I'll bite: here are SOME of my Favorites:

One Week: This film stars Josh (Dawsons Creek) Jackson (Native Canadian) who finds out he is dying and decides to take a journey by motorcycle across my beautiful homeland, Canada. It's an amazing journey filled with beautiful sites and sounds of my magnificent country: The great praries, the Stanley Cup, Vegerville's giant (world's biggest) Ukrainian Easter Egg, the Rockie Mountains, Banff, the Pacific Ocean... It makes me cry every time I see it. A tribute to Canada. I'll be watching it EVERY Canada day (July 1st.)

Love, Actually: I watch this film EVERY YEAR on December 23rd. It's a great holliday film that really gets you into the spirit of Christmas and loving family and friends. Plus, they use a whicked rendition of "All I want for Christmas, is you" and "Christmas is all around us."

The all-star British cast in superb, including some of my favs like Alan Rickman and Hugh Grant. Thomas Sangster is so cute in this film!

The Ten Commandments: I watch this film EVERY YEAR on Easter Saturday. How can you beat Charleton Heston? Robbed of an Oscar Nomination! It's a true to life biblical epic that had the greatest special effects of it's day. The mass migration of Hebrews from Egypt is an amazing scene, as is the building of the city and, of course, the parting of the Red Sea.

The whole cast gives amazing performances, and had Yul Brynner not been nominated for The King and I, he should have won for this film.

It's a Wonderful Life: I watch this film EVERY Christmas Eve. Jimmy Stewart is one of my favorite actors. He give probably his best performance of his career (Mr. Smith Goes to Washington aside).

It's a tale of love and family, and how haveing nothing can be the greatest gift of all. Superbly acted by Steart, et. Al, it's a simple film that give a big message. Great Holiday film A true classic.

Casablanca: The most well-written movie of all time. It had SIX of the top 100 quotes of all time!

Incredibly well-acted my Bergman, Bogart, Reins, and others.

Bogart was robbed of a nomination for this film! Michael Curtiz knew what he was doing when he directed this classic. You can't go wrong with it.

Willy Wonka and the Chocklate Factory: They took Roald Dahl's book and turned it into a funny, witty, genuinly great family film. The children-actors are terrific and compliamented well by their adult parents, but you can't forget the terrific performance by Gene Wilder. So funny and bizare! A true under-rated classic.

Lilo and Stitch: Disney hit gold with this one! Another under-rated film, Stitch is an amazingly lovable character. The film works well in the Hawaiian setting and the music of the King, Elvis, just makes the film magical!

You can't help but sing along, and Wynonna's rendition of Burnin' Love is something else.

The voice cast is superb too.

Goldeneye: IMO the best James Bond film; It has amazing stunts, a great story, and Pierce Brosnan is terrific. No, Pierce isn't as good as Connery, but the film itself isn't all about special effects and these far-out unbeliveable stunts. These Stunts are beliveable and don't overpower the story. The Locations are beautiful, the girls are hot. It's an all-around great adventure.

Alice in Wonderland: Walt Disney's most well-animated film. Utilizing the talents all 9 of Walt's Nine Old Men, Alice[I] is "wonder" to behold. The animation brings to life Lewis Carrol's story in ways only Pixar could do today.

The sequences are breathtaking; they don't even look drawn! Watch the details of the Mad tea Party scene and you'll see what I mean.

Frank Thomas and Ollie Johnston come to mind right way. Just a beautiful film and funny as hell, too!

and... my Favortie film! (The others were in no order.)

1. [I]The Shawshank Redemption
: Like I said, I watch this film EVERY YEAR of my birthday (November 25th). This film tells the story of a wrongfully imprisoned man who takes to liveing in a corrupt, brutal prision in Maine.

The film gives us hope, most of all, that our dreams can never be taken waway; that we have to use the time we have. It also tells us of the power of friendship.

We have powerful performances from Bob Gunton, Clancy (Haakon) Brown, Tim Robbins and Morgan Freeman (who was, unfortunatly, the only one nominated for the Oscar. THEY ALL deserved nominations.)

Everytime I hear those immortal words: "In 1966... Andy Dufresne... ESCAPED... from Shawshank Prision..." I get goose bumps.

The ending is the best part, where we get an explanation for what's just happened, and Warden Norton get his just deserts.

"His judgement commeth, and that right soon..." Classic. It's a true, under-ratted classic. Most users of the IMDB know how good, nay, great this film is.

So that's my two Cents.

battle Beast - [SUPPORT SLG]
That is all I will say.

Anonymouse: "Goodbye Lenin" and, if you can shut a million youtube comedy videos out of your mind, "The Downfall" are both great German films of recent years. I've heard nothing but good things about "The Lives of Others" but I haven't seen it myself. Couldn't tell you about the directors though.

Patrick: I put it in second place. Great film.

KingCobra: I haven't seen it on HD yet (or DVD actually, I have it on VHS still, and it's on tv quite a bit). Good recommendation though.


battle Beast - [SUPPORT SLG]
That is all I will say.

battle Beast - [SUPPORT SLG]
That is all I will say.

@ Anonymous: There are some. ALLE ANDEREN ("Everybody Else", I think...) is IMHO fantastic.

As for Metropolis remake... good god, NO!!

I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!

Well, Uwe Boll is a German.

I'm generally rather skeptical as far as remake are concerned, I also can't come up with any good recent German directors (or movies).

Does Metropolis even need a remake?


Wow haven't posted here in a while
Metropolis ->I am super excited for the restored version of Metropolis. I don't if this is good or bad but, I heard that a German company/director got the go ahead to do a remake of Metropolis. My thinking is that a German is redoing this, woot.


@ Patrick: Shawshak is one of those rare films that are flawless, downright perfect in writing and execution, and also don't cease to amaze me after seeing them for the zillionst time, but it doesn't move me as much as, say, Irreversible, Children of Men or The Elephant Man. I'm still waiting for Darabont to FINALLY realize his FAHRENHEIT 451 script, something I doubt will ever happenned, since it's been 8 years since it's been announced (and they're dropping the ususal "we're driving through eastern europe for shooting locations" every 12 months)... :(

METROPOLIS: OH YEAH, I cannot wait for this to happen. They're trying to restore it so that it looks flawless, which is really hard, since it's apparently old film material. Most of those went after 40 years. :( Thanks to digital post production, I think they'l render it perfectly. And yeah, they're going to release a full version.

I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!

No one's listed "The Shawshank Redemption" yet. Probably my favorite movie of all time.
Patrick - [<-- Gathering T-shirt Clearance Sale]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka

*gah* I hit up Amazon which said that a DVD version is coming out this month, but it's apparently only the 2003 in some kind of Edition deal. (-_-)

Do you think they'll splice the recovered scenes into the reconstructed and restored version of the movie or bring out just the recovered version.

I remember reading, that they won't be able to bring the recovered scenes up to the quality of the digitally restored version. I hope it'll be out before Christmas, it would probably look good next to my Murnau version.


I can't wait to see the UNCUT version of Metropolis they are releasing later this year... the one Fritz Lang originally intended and showed in 1927. Should be AMAZING!!!
battle Beast - [SUPPORT SLG]
That is all I will say.

Brook > I haven't seen Dark City yet. I've heard about it though, and read synopses, and it sounds really good. I'll have to rent it sometime. I did see Metropolis, however. That was fantastic.

Hi All! I got home from vacation just in time to update MGC, so we have a new topic, and of course voting for last month. Head on over and check it out if you will. Some great new Gargs fanart to chose from!
Also remember only 2 months to go, so if you ever wanted to enter better do it soon. *L*

kess - [< MGC]

@ Rebel: Props for listing Kill Bill and Brazil. Do you actually like Dark City?

I never got into Matrix 2+3 though... 2 was OK but did let me down quit a bit, 3 I found rather, uh... not so good... :(

I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!

CAR INSURANCE > Have any of you ever used GEICO for your auto insurance? I'm currently shopping around for car insurance, and GEICO is in the lead with a quote of $351 per 6 months with State Farm in second with $473 (policies and coverage rates would be the same). Obviously I'd like to go with GEICO because it's much cheaper, but I'm not sure if they'll stand behind me when I need them to. Have any of you used GEICO? Are they reliable?

FAVORITE MOVIES > Here are some favorite movies of mine. They are in no particular order. Keep in mind, these movies are my favorite movies today. If you asked me tomorrow, I might give you a different list.

Kill Bill (1 and 2) > I'm a big Uma Therman fan, as well as a big Tarantino fan. The Kill Bill movies are action-packed, funny, and full of interesting character back story. I adore them both, though I think I have a slight preference for Volume 2.

The Matrix Trilogy > Keanu Reeves has a reputation for being a pretty lousy actor--a reputation that I don't disagree with. But in these movies, it doesn't seem to matter. He suits Neo perfectly. I love the special effects in these films, as well as the overall story. These movies are what made me into a fan of Hugo Weaving (he played Agent Smith).

Rent > It's a musical about a bunch of bohemian folks (most of whom are either gay, and/or who have AIDs) living in a crappy part of New York. I love the story, but mostly I love it for the great songs. I never saw the musical on Broadway, but I thought the movie was wonderful.

Brazil > I only saw this movie twice, but it made such an impression on me that I will claim it as one of my favorite movies. It's about a man trying to find a woman he's only seen in his dreams, and it's set in a dystopian world full of incompetent bureaucracy where everyone relies on machines too much. It was directed by Terry Gilliam. This is one of many films that I absolutely love, which I don't own, but plan on buying soon.

Network > This film was the first time an actor (Peter Finch) ever won a Best Actor Academy Award posthumously. The movie's about a failing television network, and is chock-full of brilliant performances, including a number of tiny roles by talented actors/actresses that are nonetheless stunning, despite their small number of lines. Go rent this movie if you've never seen it. Directed by Sidney Lumet, written by Chayefsky.

Gattaca > Uma Therman's in this one, which is part of why it appeals to me. It's a story about a future dystopian world in which nearly all parents no longer have children the natural way--instead, they create a number of fertilized embryos, and then use the one that is the strongest. As a result, the human race has (mostly) gotten healthier, stronger, smarter, more attractive, etc. In the film, things have gotten to a point where a person's genetic code is basically their resume. However, there are some few unfortunate people (called in-valids) whose parents decided to leave matters up to chance and have their children the natural way. These people, due to their deficient genes, can only get menial-types jobs, as janitors and such. The movie follows Vincent, and in-valid who dreams of being an astronaut, but who doesn't have the genes or the health to ever qualify to be one. So he decides to impersonate Jerome, a man with perfect genes, in order to get into Gattaca (the film's version of NASA) and start becoming an astronaut. Suspense, drama, and romance ensue.

The Lion King > My favorite Disney film of all time. I watched the "Confused Matthew" review of the Lion King some time ago, and I wholeheartedly disagree with him. Simba may be bratty, but he's still a terribly likable character (otherwise, I probably wouldn't like him). Plus, I think it's very reasonable that Scar might be able to convince Simba that Mufasa's death is Simba's fault--little kids believe things like that. Anyway, I'm not going to "defend" the film because I think it's widely recognized as a giant among animated movies. It's got great animation, great characters, great songs, humor, romance, action, and my favorite Disney villain (Scar). I could watch this movie over and over and not get bored.

Donnie Darko > This movie's intense, and unlike most movies I've seen. Frank the bunny scares me. I won't say much more about it because it's already been mentioned by someone else. But it's definitely a favorite of mine.

Fight Club > I'm a big fan of Chuck Pahlaniuk's books. He's always upping the ante and taking things to the next level, leaving you breathless. So far, I haven't actually read Fight Club yet, but I've read several of his other books. Fight Club is a crazy movie. I love the music, I enjoy the fight scenes, I love the character of Tyler Durden, and his unique outlook on life.

Vanilla Sky > I like Cameron Diaz and Tilda Swinton, and they're both in this one. The imagery of this film is really beautiful to me. I think my favorite part of this whole movie is this one scene when The Beach Boys' song "Good Vibrations" starts playing and Tom Cruise runs around yelling for Tech Support. The concept of the film is interesting and I could watch it again and again.

Me and You and Everyone We Know > A quirky little indie film. At least I think it's independent. It's got a unique score and multiple intertwining subplots, about a group of characters that you really come to care about and identify with.


I might as well get in on this, too. A few of these aren't really in any order:

1. THE USUAL SUSPECTS. Before M. Night Shymalan gave us Sixth Sense, Bryan Singer gave us one of the the first films that made twist endings cool. And the great thing is, I've still been able to watch that movie several times since first seeing it, even after knowing the ending. Which says a lot about how well it's made, and how the director really gets you interested in the struggles of some of the characters. I've seen Sixth Sense maybe once or twice in my life. I still watch Usual Suspects at least once a year.

2. THE SEVEN SAMURAI. If your experience with this film only goes as far as John Ford's Hollywood remake, I pity you. MAGNIFICENT SEVEN was just a cheap, formulaic imitation. Kurosawa's film is a masterpeice. Three and a half hours long, but it doesn't feel like it. He spends the whole movie analyzing our very humanity: what creates a person? What drives them to say or do something? Why does anyone do ANYTHING? And the best part is, he asks the questions, and leaves you to take your own answers from it. This is also the reason I recommend IKIRU and RASHOMON (by the same director), which are both very good, but not on the scope of SEVEN SAMURAI.

3. BLADE RUNNER. Until A SCANNER DARKLY, this was the only Philip K. Dick adaptation I liked. Ridley Scott crafts a world that is absolutely beautiful to look at, exotic enough to be another place and time but still very down to earth. There are a few different versions of this film. I personally recommend the Director's Cut, if only because the ending and the themes explored are more compelling (as opposed to the "Hollywood" ending Scott was forced to give it for the theatrical release).

4. THE GOOD, THE BAD, AND THE UGLY. The movie that first really made me sit up and take notice of the antihero. Clint Eastwood is the titular "good" character, yet he's just as manipulative as the other two. I especially love the way this film was edited. In fact, the showdown in the cemetery is what got me interested in the filmmaking process in the first place.

5. CASINO. Another "mob documentary" from Scorsese. Given the choice between this and GOODFELLAS (which is another excellent film), I think I like this one a little better, probably because it's a little more heartbreaking. No matter how hard you try, love is not something that can be forced from anyone. I love every song that Scorsese used. This is how dedicated the man is as a director. He personally selected each and every one himself, and each one is perfect for the specific scene. Cannot listen to "House of the Rising Sun" without thinking of this film. Of course, I also can't listen to the last half of "Layla" without thinking of GOODFELLAS.

6. THE GODFATHER. Can't really say too much that hasn't already been said, but I do love the tragedy. Yes, Vito was a criminal, but unlike Michael, he was actually able to not let power come between him and his family. The story of the American Dream.

7. MONTY PYTHON AND THE HOLY GRAIL. Probably one of the most quotable movies I've ever seen, and I love the way they turn Arthurian legend on its ass. First saw it when I was eleven (heck, my mother of all people recommended it to me and my brothers), and it's one of the movies I blame for making me what I am today.

8. THE MALTESE FALCON. Bogart as one of the original anteheros. And it's not saying much when Sam Spade is the most decent character in the film. I especially love the lighting motifs, and the way Huston framed a lot of the shots. Very noir-ish.

9. ROBOCOP. Yes, it's a fun, bloody action movie, but it doesn't forget what drives the story, namely the titular character's quest to better understand just who and what he is. Alex Murphy was an honest cop and a loving familyman who was in the wrong place at the wrong time, and wound up getting something he never asked for. Is a few lumps of cold flesh surrounded by armored titanium still human? How do you define human? Unfortunately, neither one of the sequels managed to continue this theme.

10. THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK. It's interesting. To be honest, after the prequel trilogy, my love of A NEW HOPE and RETURN OF THE JEDI waned a little. However, my enjoyment of the original theatrical release of this film still hasn't diminished. It's the movie that showed the world that the Star Wars movies could have compelling character drama. It's the only instance in the saga where Darth Vader truly lives up to his potential as a villain. In short, it showed the world that the Star Wars universe had balls.

11. MEMENTO. Despite the fact that they're showing the end at the beginning, and vice versa, the movie still had a climax. Beautifully acted, well-edited, my first introduction to the Nolan brothers. Hell, when I found out that the new Batman movies were being hemmed by Chris Nolan, the reason I shit myself is because I'd seen MEMENTO.

12. DEATH TO SMOOCHY. Danny DeVito is a sick, sick man. I love satire when it's done right, and this is done better than right! Like everything else in entertainment, children's shows are a dark, twisted world. This is also the movie where I developed a crush on Catherine Keener. A woman who can swear like a sailor is just hot. Period.

And that's all I've got for now.

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Keaton always said, 'I don't believe in God, but I'm afraid of him.' Well I believe in God, and the only thing that scares me is Keyser Soze." -Verbal ("The Usual Suspects")

As I said to Greg B when he first put his list on his blog, I can never do these things without feeling like I'm trying to decide it I prefer a kitten of a high end computer. But if I narrow things down a little more, sometimes I can manage it. Here, in no particular order, are some of my favorite date movies:

1. Say Anything - It's pretty much a no-brainer for a list like this. A sweet, smart, funny movie about two very different and very appealing people who end up in love against all odds. It left me with a lifelong love of "In Your Eyes" and John Cusack.

2. High Fidelity - Speaking of. If "Say Anything" is the perfect 80s love story, "High Fidelity" taps into something more modern. Like many modern romances, it's not so much about tw people overcoming exterior obstacles to be together, but about characters who have to learn to live together and how to make each other happy.

3. Shakespeare In Love - It's a win-win situation: a romance that appeals to your intellectual side while providing some serious eye candy for both genders. Historical accuracy aside, it's a story about Shakespeare in the style of a Shakespeare play and it turns a historical figure most people know only as a name on the spine of a book into a real human being.

4. Four Weddings and a Funeral - I could probably describe every one of these movies as "sweet, smart, and funny" but that's the kind of date movie I go for. It's a solid comedy with some great laughs, but also a good exploration of what love is in the modern world. Extra props for including a gay couple with more subtlety than most films can muster.

5. Chasing Amy - Both my boyfriend and I were pretty into "Clerks" when this came out and i still think it's one of Kevin Smith's best. I was both a fan of Kevin Smith and really into comics when it first came out, so needless to say, it spoke to me. The speech I really like is not Holden confessing his love to Alyssa, but Alyssa explaining to Holden why she's turned away from what was a defining part of her identity to be with him. I think the whole movie would fall apart without it and I love what it says about not putting limits on who the right person for you might be.

6. The Princess Bride - I am a sucker for the traditional fairy tales. Without ever turning into a parody, this film provides a humorous twist on the genre and still manages to have a credible love story at its core. It's a film I saw when I was pretty young, so I can't discount the nostalgia factor, but i think it holds up. Bonus points for having Mandy Patinkin, who I will watch in pretty much anything.

7. The People vs. Larry Flint - Honestly, I have no idea whether or not "The People vs. Larry Flint" is a good date movie. All I can tell you is that a guy took me to see it on our first date and now we've been married for over three years, so take from that what you will.

All lists subject to later additions.

Demonskrye - [<---"Snow White" Part Two at The Ink and Pixel Club]

Brook> "Have you seen [REC]?? It's better than Cloverfield and uses the same technique."

I'm actually waiting for a copy of that to come in at my local library.

Blaise> "Hey, congrats on your part! And there's nothing wrong with background or silent bits--that's where I started (and where I'm trying to get out of now).
The movie "I, Robot" interested you in the works of Asimov? Well, I'm glad for that, since the movie (which is decent in its own right) goes far afield from Asimov's material. I'd be interested in hearing your reactions."

Thanks. :D

Playing B.G. extra is actually nothing new to me. I've already done once or twice in past/recent projects. As far as Asimov goes, I still need to get off my lazy ass and read it. Once I do, I'd be happy to discuss his works and my perspective on them.

KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.

****There is a flash of light and a loud *click* and Blaise appears in the Room.**** Hey, all! I just had new headshots taken today.

KINGCOBRA 582> Hey, congrats on your part! And there's nothing wrong with background or silent bits--that's where I started (and where I'm trying to get out of now).
The movie "I, Robot" interested you in the works of Asimov? Well, I'm glad for that, since the movie (which is decent in its own right) goes far afield from Asimov's material. I'd be interested in hearing your reactions.

GUARDIAN> Your proposed day trip to Disneyland/Universal sounds like a fun "Gargoyles" get together, and I'd definitely be interested (assuming I can afford to go to either place at the time).

MOVIES> Oy. I don't think I could list my top 20 (or even top 10) favorites. Well, maybe I could, but I'm not going to spend time deciding whether I like/value one more than the other. At any rate, here are 10 of my favorites (in no particular order):

*Lord of the Rings--Pete Jackson version, Extended cuts, all three together. Yes, it is not perfect--I notice several continuity errors, and some logistical oddities--and I have issues with two adaptation-oriented choices, but in the end, none of that matters so much. This epic moved me as few other movies have, and just the sheer technical achievement of it (and I'm not just talking about CGI, here) is something that has to be admired. Kudos to all involved.

*Legend--the 118-minute Director's Cut. Yeah, I know, what a change from the last one. Don't get me wrong, Legend is, at best, a highly problematic movie. Even in it's best form (which, for me, is the Director's Cut) it still suffers from a great many flaws (mostly due to dropped/changed lines and character moments from the script). But I never said it was the best movie; it's just one of my favorites. Maybe it's the sheer visual spectacle, or the wonderful make-up of Rob Bottin, or Jerry Goldsmith's score (only on the Director's and European Cuts), or just Tim Curry's performance as the Lord of Darkness. I just like this movie.

*Monty Python and the Holy Grail. Do I really need to elaborate on this? It's funny! And in many ways this was my first introduction to Monty Python.

*The Phantom of the Opera--the 1925 Lon Chaney version. Mind you, Lon Chaney's performance is just about the biggest saving grace in this movie. The rumor is Chaney directed his own scenes (he and the director, Rupert Julian, did not get on well), and I believe it; the Phantom's scenes are easily the movie's best. If they'd managed to get a good director for the rest of the film (Julian really was a hack), this would be famous for more than just the fantastic set design and the virtuoso performance of the "Man of 1,000 Faces."

*Alien. Ridley Scott and his cast and crew took a B-movie plot (heck, a Z-movie plot) and made it A-movie material. At the same time they showed a lived-in future ("truck drivers in space" was the phrase), and thanks to H.R. Giger's design, they brought forth a truly memorable space beastie. And how about a hand for Sigourney Weaver as Ripley!

*Aliens--the Special Extended Edition. This one pretty much had to follow--it's one of the few sequels that can stand even with the original. A large part of that is because they didn't try to recreate the original--they took it in a different, but perfectly logical, direction. If the last one was a thriller, then this is a war movie. More great effects, excellently staged action, and Weaver deserved her Oscar-nomination for this performance.

*Treasure of the Sierra Madre. Now here's a real classic. I was feeling a bit silly not having classics like Citizen Kane or Casablanca on my list (I have seen both, and liked them--they've earned their status), but then there's this. I rented this to study Walter Huston's performance and wound up watching this film no less than three times. Seeing the effect of greed on men and their relationships with one another (especially the moral deterioration of Humphrey Bogart's character) is riveting. And the exuberant laugh two of the main characters share towards the end...to me, with all my worries in life, that really made me think (and even hope a bit).

*Jaws. Still one of the best thriller/adventure movies I have ever seen. And no mention of this movie is complete without praising Robert Shaw's monologue on the sinking of the "U.S.S. Indianapolis." This is one of the few movies where a "special effects failure" (the mechanical shark did not work in salt water) arguably made the movie better.

*The Labyrinth of the Faun--because I refuse to call it Pan's Labyrinth. Dear heaven, this movie is incredible on so many levels. Doug Jones's performances as the Faun and the Pale Man are worth the price of admission alone (especially considering all the make-up he's under), but all of the performances (including one of the most chilling villains in cinema), not to mention the visual design, make for a memorable viewing experience.

*Princess Mononoke. I had heard about this movie for a while via the Internet. Low and behold, one Saturday night while I was at college, I discovered it playing as the Midnight feature at my local cinema. So I figured I'd see what all the fuss was about. The only phrase that can adequately describe my reaction would be akin to "religious revelation." This movie floored me. I love it all: the complex characters, the design, the rumination on both Man vs. Nature and the destructiveness of hate and anger. To this day, it is still my favorite animated movie. I have seen it both subbed and dubbed, and while I prefer the subbed version, either way it is still incredible.

Until next time! ****Blaise strikes a pose. There is another *click* and flash of light and Blaise is gone.****

"Now...if you trust in yourself...and believe in your dreams...and follow your star...you'll still get beaten by people who spent THEIR time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy."--Miss Tick, "The Wee Free Men"

@ KingCobra: Have you seen [REC]?? It's better than Cloverfield and uses the same technique.
I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!

Ed> "Have you seen "The Mist"? I liked "Cloverfield" but I think "The Mist" takes the same kind of concept further in every respect."

I keep meaning to, but I haven't really had the chance to see it.

As far as The Shining goes, you should try watching it on BluRay, if you haven't already. Makes the movie even better.

KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.

SHIT, CAT, I forgot DEAD MAN!!! :(


So, well... throw out TCM and insert Dead Man. Makes a lot more sense. ;)

I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!

I figured I'd get in that too. :)

Since everybody is naming mainstream films and classics, I feel like a freak to enjoy so many WTF films nobody outside of my house has heard of. Since I'm... very unsure about picking numbers, I figured I'll just list them without numbers, since, well, some films are up to switch with the 2 above and below them... so yeah, it's a loose top-20...

Here we go.

MEMENTO: Some might argue that THE DARK KNIGHT or THE PRESTIGE is Nolans "best" work as a director, but Memento is the rawest, most thought out and challenging film he has done so far. I love the idea, love the execution. I love how the film alternates between scenes of the thriller/noir genre and philosophy. I love how well it all works, and how even after seeing it over 10 times, I still find tidbits I've not seen before. And, well, the entire film runs backwards. There's only one other I can think of where it works (see IRREVERSIBLE).

EYES WIDE SHUT: Actually, you could pick any Kubrick, so why this one? Because this is one of the first films about which I talked to the love of my life about: "I love freaky movies, like... Eyes Wide Shut, and..." "Oh, yeah, I LOVE that one!!!" "Oh, really?? GEEZ, everybody else hates it, I didn't knew there were girls like you!" etc.
So yeah, Clockwork Orange, Shining, FMJ, Strangelove, they're all in this one spot here. But why Eyes Wide Shut? I recall after seeing it... I've had all of Kubricks films, but it was Eyes Wide Shut which I used to plug in and watch late at night. I donÄt know how often I saw it, but, well, that already says something. The colors and the atmosphere are just gorgeous, and the quiet and silent portions of the film work irritatingly well. It's your favorite Herman Hesse book put onto film.

JACOB'S LADDER: Because of this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXXbIOc9h4g
Bacon on Film.
Oh, and it has Tim Robbins in it.

LOST IN TRANSLATION: The film who introduced me to the beauty and amazing acting of Scarlett Johansson! Bill Murray is amazing, hands down, but Johansson's acting is so minimal and natural... when the "actress" runs up to her boyfriend and they talk to each other, the expression on Johanssons face tells a thousand stories. Also props for having songs by Phoenix, My Bloody Valentine and Peaches in a film!!

APOCALYPSE NOW: No brainer. Probably "the best film ever made" - which means "most perfect".

LOST HIGHWAY: Again, it is hard to choose one film here... Blue Velvet, Eraserhead, Mulholland Drive, Elephant Man... there are just too many brilliant films by Davis Lynch. So why this one? Its his most daring film, up to that point. It's closest to perfection, and reveals itself on repeated views only. Great acting, great atmosphere, great art direction!!

DONNIE DARKO: Don't even get me started... 80s, Horrorfilm, Philosophy, Science Fiction, Coming-of-Age... all in one... And superblydomne.

IRREVERSIBLE: So, yeah, here we go. The second film that was done backwards, and surely the most violent film on the list. So, even though the rape and murder scene are damn violent, why is this on here? Because it is a rare thing to show us how beautiful life can be. To show us, how fragile life can be. To show us, how small decisions can ruin our life. And tons more. Not exploitation - it's meditation. And all summed up in one of the best last scenes. Ever!

BLADE RUNNER: Well, another no brainer... You know why you love it, and that's why I do... "Unique" is the word I use most about this fulm, right next to "beautiful".

HOUR OF THE WOLF: Persona, Wild Strawberries, Cries and Whispers...*gah* ANYWAYS, Hour of the Wolf is where Bergman is delving even deeper into the subconscious. Where he shows us dreams (his dreams?) where he tells us why people die, and why some are just "swallowed up" by the earth. It' a dark film, brilliantly directed in black and White and acting that seems to come from beyond... something that we call "soul"... or heart... or whatever...

BEFORE SUNRISE: Two people meet up in a foreign city, decide to spend the day with each other and meet back in exactly one year. This is the one day which they spend with each other. Talking, walking, watching, falling in love. What can be more beautiful?

STALKER: The european companion piece to Blade Runner, Stalker is a grim affair. There apparently is something called "zone" in the mdst of russia, which... just existed at some point. Nobody must enter. However, the "Stalker" leads people into the zone, to something called "the room", where their most inner wishes might be fulfilled... or not... Because, who can say what their biggest wish is?? A Poem in film form.

INTERIoRS: The best Woody Allen film. Better than Annie Hall, better than Match Point, better than The Sleeper. Inspired by Ingmar BErgman and Goya, this is a brooding, dark film about what tears all of us apart, and what manages to keep us together in the end.

SYMPATHY FOR MR. VENGEANCE: Yes, above OLDBOY. Because, even though OLDBOY is a masterpiece that tops EVERY SINGLE Tarantino film (I say that to you, Greg B. :) Watch it, seriously), SYMPATHY... is just a hell lot more creative. it's the first part of the vengeance trilogy of which OLDBOY is pt. 2, and it's still the best of the 3.

REQUIEM FOR A DREAM: Because Hubert Selby Junior is just damn incredible, and this film is damn perfect. If you've read the book, you know just HOW hard it is to actually turn this into a film. And yes, it worked.

HANA-BI: An ex-police officer want to fulfill the last wish of his dying wife and does a tour through snowy Japan with her. Sadly enough, the Yakuzza have some open business to settle with him...
Terribly sad, yet breathtakingly beautiful, this surreal film about dying is one of the many examples where Takeshi Kitano proves he's the japanese counterpart to Stanley Kubrick. Note: the director and actor tried to take his own life a year before directing this film. It's the first in which we see his face after the nearly life-taking crash: one eye twitching, one side of his face paralyzed, with scars all over it. I laugh every time I see him smile.

LET THE RIGHT ONE IN: So there it is, the big, bad meanie, right in the middle. So yeah, this is about two kids. Boy meets girl. He falls in love. She tells him that they can't be friends. He says, it is OK. Cut to her father hanging some random guy from a tree and killing him.
The horrors in LET THE RIGHT ONE IN make gradually way for a more human, touching story about love and destiny. Sometimes you just love somebody and, well, you actually are not supposed to, but... well, it sure is the most wonderful thing on the earth...

LA CITE DES ENFANTS PERDU: Amelie is a shitfest!! It is lik a choco donut with a sugar-coating and sugar-cones on top. This, the most twisted children-film ever, is a lot better. It's Tim Burton meets Blade Runner. Yes, it is. And it has some clones, some dull cult members who cut their own eyes ot and a brain that's swimming in a tank and is constantly depressed and has a headache. Yes, it's a film for children.

ETERNAL SUNSHINE OF A SPOTLESS MIND: Cause Jim Carrey IS actually FUNNY!! At least here. The most imaginative film I've sen in ages.
Until Gondry did THE SCIENE OF SLEEP.
Well, somebody just HAD to top this film, right... ;)

THE TEXAS CHAINSAW MASSACRE: Because, well... Chainsaws ARE kinda scary. ;)

And, Nr. 21: THE LAST LIVE IN THE UNIVERSE. Cause, well, it's LOST IN TRANSLATION in Taiwanese with suicidal people. Wheee, popcorn movie! :D

Sorry for Citizen Kane, 28 Days Later, Videodrom, Pan's Labyrinth, There Will be Blood, The Stratosphere Girl and Angel of the Universe.

I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!

Rebel: Looking forward to "Jennifer's Body" too although it's not in the UK for a while. I liked "Juno", love Amanda Seyfried ("Veronica Mars") and have absolutely no preconceptions about Megan Fox.

I'm also excited for "The Invention of Lying" this weekend. Gervais & Merchant's "The Office" and "Extras" are absolutely magnificent but Merchant isn't co-writing/directing this one and it looks like it has a different feel: more glossy, high-concept. Closer to the sweet but disposable "Ghost Town" maybe. Looks intriguing though and at least Gervais & Merchant are back together next year for "Cemetery Junction"...

Battle Beast: Depressing that people still have that prejudice about B&W. I love B&W films and I think as a medium it's long overdue a comeback. Plenty of great modern films owe a lot of their atmosphere to it: "Clerks", "Good Night and Good Luck", "Schindler's List", "Sin City".

KingCobra: Have you seen "The Mist"? I liked "Cloverfield" but I think "The Mist" takes the same kind of concept further in every respect.

Greg B: Great list. I'm surprised to see "Sleeping Beauty" so high. I haven't watched it since I was tiny but it never struck me as one of the greats so I'll have to take another look. "A Clockwork Orange" I watched once but I don't think I'll watch it again for a long time if ever, even though it's brilliant.

"Casablanca": I watched it many years ago and I remember it had a big effect on me. But it's so long ago, I'd need to watch it again to develop a proper opinion.

Top 20 films: Okay, favourites, not best. And I'm coming up with these quite fast so I'll probably think of a bunch more after posting. And it's more a litmus test of my whims in the moment since a lot of these could shuffle around depending on how I feel in the moment. *And* in the interests of variety, I reserve the right to list a few together which fall into a similar oeuvre. Nonetheless, here goes:

20. "The Omen" (1976) -- I saw "The Shining" and "The Exorcist" when I was a bit older than when i saw "The Omen" so although they're possibly more intense horror rides neither of them terrified me as absolutely and thoroughly as this film. It's hard to say how much of my... I hesitate to say 'affection'... for the film is down to the lingering memory of terror from watching it as a kid. I've returned to it since and had mixed feelings. It's very tense, very understated, and deals with an aspect of religious mythology that's pretty interesting in a way that comes across as convincing. It's fundamentally a drama about Gregory Peck having to kill his son which is pretty fascinating. The score is stunning. Objectively, "The Exorcist" is the more trailblazing, creative, contemplative and intense film, but it's a personal list and there's something about "The Omen" I can't shake.

19. "Great Expectations" (1946) -- A few David Lean films could get a nod here ("In Which We Serve" came especially close) and it's particularly hard with this one because the novel is so amazing, but it's still a peerless cinematic rendition.

18. "The Night of the Hunter" (1955) -- A thriller played through the eyes of two children. It's like a strange fairy tale at times but with a real undercurrent of absolute menace.

17. "Traffic" (2000) -- Complex and compelling look into 'the war on drugs', a great thought-provoking thriller, character study and reflection on society.

16. "Memento" (2000) -- A great conceit used to tell a tight and intense revenge story. I think there are arguments to be made for almost all Nolan's films -- "Insomnia" has an electric rapport between Pacino and Williams, "Batman Begins" is amazing until the last third when it's all bangs and booms, and "The Dark Knight" is intense and Ledger rocks it, but I think "Memento" has the most intriguing structure, the rawest emotions and the most grimly appropriate ending/beginning.

15. "Lost in Translation" (2003) -- There are things I don't like about the film but it's the most powerful cinematic presentation of ennui I can think of ("American Beauty" maybe). Heartbreaking direction and performances make it maybe an even greater brief encounter than "Brief Encounter".

14. "Rebecca" (1940) -- There are plenty of great Hitchcocks but this is my favourite. The twist isn't as visceral as "Psycho" but it's just as effective at turning the film upside down, and the atmosphere is wonderful all the way through.

13. "Gone With the Wind" (1939) -- A glorious screen epic. I love the scope of it and I love the construction of Scarlett O'Hara.

12. "Mrs Doubtfire" (1993) -- A 90s family comedy by Chris Columbus is admittedly an unlikely choice for an all-time favourite. It has a strong cast and plenty of funny moments but there lies at its heart a really powerful, focused film about the impact of divorce on the family. In some ways it's the ultimate subject matter for a family movie because it's a rewriting of what it means to be a family. The last speech is one of the most powerful ever put to film, and Robin Williams delivers it perfectly.

11. "The Shining" (1980) -- I've seen it too many times for it to still remain potent as a thriller but it's still fascinating and masterfully paced and shot.

10. "Groundhog Day" (1993) -- An existential comedy with such a simple concept executed superbly. I still don't know I quite buy Rita's choice right at the end based on, for her, 24 hours, but you go there out of goodwill because it really is such a great ride.

9. "Goodbye Mr Chips" (1939) -- A very gentle, understatedly sentimental film about a teacher at a public school through generations of boys, from the mid-19th century through past the First World War. Very English though a faraway England from long ago. Still beautiful and moving though.

8. "El Laberinto del Fauno" [Pan's Labyrinth] (2006) -- Stunning, shocking, immersive, intense, magical. A real work of art.

7. "Sen to Chihiro no Kamikakushi" [Spirited Away] (2001) -- Miyazaki puts concentrated wonder straight onto celluloid. Beautiful.

5/6. "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" (1975) and "Life of Brian" (1979) -- Grouping them together because they're both quintessential Python films. I think Grail is flat-out funnier but Brian is smarter and which I prefer varies on any given day.

4. "Pinocchio" (1940) -- Maybe the greatest animated film of all time. It just sends shivers down my spine. The animation is so beautiful, the emotions so raw. It's a surprisingly bleak movie but it's never without hope, and the music isn't the processed Broadway-style stuff of modern Disney but embedded into the story. I adore it. "Fantasia" and "Snow White and the Seven Dwarves" are also astonishingly good. Disney still haven't topped this pre-war golden age.

3. "Citizen Kane" (1941) -- A tragedy both global and intimate, wonderfully constructed, beautifully shot and perfectly performed. I don't think Kane is despicable at all, just very human and very damaged.

2. "The Shawshank Redemption" (1994) -- A tremendously satisfying, beautiful drama, one of those I can watch endlessly and never once be less than involved. The cast is up and down terrific, especially Bob Gunton and Clancy Brown. It's perfectly paced, perfectly scripted, a wonderful piece of cinema about hope.

1. "It's A Wonderful Life" (1946) -- Roger Ebert I think said that for him, in film, deep emotions come not when characters are sad but when they are good. That's certainly true of this film, by turns bleak and wonderful, magical in the best sense. The kind of spiritual companion to "A Christmas Carol".

Really interesting to see all these different lists.


Favorite Movies> Okay, here's my 10 favorites. In a random order, but from worst to best.

1. I, Robot. Great story, great execution, great acting, just all around great. The CG robots were cool, and Sonny was an interesting character, IMO. This is the film that makes me want to read more Asimov.

2. Terminator. This is the film that made Schwarzenegger's career. It's fun, dark, and well-made. Sarah Connor was well-played by Linda Hamilton, and she was kind of hot too. Plus, it sets up for the even better T2. Holds up well even after 25 years. Thumbs up.

3. Cloverfield. It's a nice and cheesy way to kill time. I really liked the CG monster. That's all.

4. Final Destination. Well-acted, had some pretty nasty but elaborate kill scenes, and one heck of a plane explosion at the beginning. Definitely one of the more underrated classics.

5. FMA: Conqueror Of Shamballa. Took an already near perfect anime and put an interesting spin on it. Namely, bringing back all the anime characters, alive or dead, in some form (one of which came back as a Nazi, which I was not happy about, but oh well.) or another. The runtime was 1 hour, 45 minutes or so, which made for good character/story development.

6. Halloween (1978). It's a classic, dark movie that introduced an iconic horror villian and launched Jamie Lee Curtis' career. 'Tis all.

7. A Nightmare On Elm Street. I liked this one for the same reasons I liked 'Halloween', minus JLC's career. So I'm a sucker for horror films. Sue me.

8. Naruto: Ninja Clash In The Land Of Snow. But I'm a sucker for anime films, too. Loved it. Loved it. Freaking loved it.

9. Spiderman. Okay, so it's PG-13, which makes me about 14-15 years too old for it, but I don't care. It's got a great story, decent acting, and Tobey McGuire = Spiderman, IMO. Well-paced and exciting. Exactly what I like in movies.

10. Watchmen. Best. Comic. Movie. Ever. The characters were fully fleshed out, which is what I like in quality cinematic gold. The acting was superb (Rorshach pwns!), and, while some people may wince at the violence, (I know I did once or twice) it's not just there for the sake of being gratuitous. The violence, for once, is actually there to move the story along. There were some plot twists that I didn't really see coming, but I love it when that happens. I like to keep guessing, and then be surprised. The ending was kind of depressing, but it was also sensible, story-wise. This is definitely the best superhero movie ever made. Rorshcach pwns!

KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.

I once took a creative writing class in high school, and we actually read scripts of various movies. I can't remember if Casablanca was one of them, but we did watch the movie. Man, a time when stories actually meant something and were awarded for it.

The only other movie I woulds mention is The Usual Suspects. For some reason, I enjoyed reading the script more than seeing the movie, but the movie was great, too.

Guardian - [Guardian105 at gmail dot com]

Part 2 of the Spider-Man Crawl Space interview with Greg Weisman and Josh Keaton: http://www.spidermancrawlspace.com/wordpress/2009/10/01/podcast-82-second-hour-of-spectacular-spider-man-interview/
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

On the subject of movies, Bishansky even wrote an article (an extremely informative one, too) about "Casablanca" for the GargWiki, because of the "Casablanca" references in "Gargoyles" (Elisa's watching it when Demona's signal overrides her television in "City of Stone Part One", and there's the Casablanca Hotel in "Bad Guys").

MATT - [SPOILER] I read up on Stirling after discovering that "Sruighlea" is the Gaelic name for it. Two major battles during Scotland's medieval war of independence were fought in the area, William Wallace's victory over the English in 1297, and - a bit further away - the Battle of Bannockburn in 1314, which featured in "Rock of Ages". (Because of these connections, some Scottish patriots have argued that Stirling, rather than Edinburgh, should be Scotland's capital.) It also boasts a major castle that was remodelled by James VI (James I of England), and a monument to William Wallace. Though I doubt it has any plans to raise a memorial to the slaughtered gargoyles, who were so unfortunate as to not even get a Wind Ceremony, thanks to Demona's being so consumed by hatred. Stirling's now become another site on the hypothetical "Gargoyles Tour of Scotland". [/SPOILER]

PATRICK - The only thing that could make your creativity demon more unsettling would be Demona reading up on, or watching a nature documentary about, praying mantises just before saying that.

Todd Jensen

Thanks for the heads up about the video. I'll be checking it out in a bit. Anyway, here is a Top 20 I put together. No specific order, but simply the ones that stand out:

1. Back To The Future Trilogy: Enjoyable story, as well as romance, humor and action/adventure. And while it's not the most sophistocated of movies, has several tidbits that one can pick up on during later viewing. Part 3 helps to make the trilogy all the more enjoying with the role reversal between Marty and Doc (Great Scott. I know, this is heavy).

2. Watchmen: I prefer to read and watch about Heroes who are more idealistic (though Nite Owl does fill that role) and basically optimistic, but I find that the movie tells a great enough story. I'm even looking to pick up the graphic novel (but until then, I do have access to the library copies).

3. X-Men 2: Overall, the story is well told and aside from Cyclops getting even less screen time, the other characters get a fair amount of focus. Movie proves several things. One is that sequels can be substancial and even better than the orignal, and second that a regular human can be just as dangerous as a high classed mutant terrorist (as some put too much stock in power characters over a regular character). And thanks to the choice to withhold a certain plot element from the novelization and comic adaptation, we get a strong, unpredictable ending.

4. The Incredible Shrinking Man: Haven't seen much discussion on this movie disappointing to say. Anyway, it takes a fictional element that is played for humor or absurdity and makes it a serious problem for the main character. The ending while not totally happy even has an optimistic feel to it:

[SPOILER] While the main character doesn't return to his normal size, he does realize that being small doesn't make him any less of a man. [/SPOILER]

5. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: As someone who saw the cartoon, but never the comic, the movie did well in drawing elements from the series and still gave it some seriousness. Got each character right in my opinion, and made a better Casey Jones. The action didn't fail to disappoint.

6. Who Framed Roger Rabbit: Well done effort at making it seem like cartoons and real life people live in the same world. Like BTTF, the offering of humor, romance and action make the story balanced. Plus, you have the historical aspect of Bugs Bunny onscreen with Mickey Mouse and Donald & Daffy Duck competing against each other. Only downer is that they couldn't fit Popeye and Tom & Jerry in the movie.

7. Batman Beyond Return Of The Joker (Uncut): Granted, the Justice League Unlimited episode Epilogue makes for a fine resolution to Batman Beyond (especially as far as the character's lovelife goes), this movie makes for a great finale which makes up for the final aired episode (Unmasked). The character undebately earns the right to be considered Batman. We get to see more gaps filled in from Batman The Animated Series and Batman Beyond, and Bruce gets to have a little reunion with the team (Dick Grayson aside).

8. Three O'Clock High: Haven't seen this movie discussed at all on the forum. Overall, while the theme of the movie is cliched (protagonist Jerry Mitchel having to fight the school bully Buddy Revel), it is told well. One thing giving the movie it's humor are the things that Jerry or his friend does to get him out of the fight (Planting a knife in Buddy's locker with a note to inform the principal on the knife, paying the school jock with money taken from the school store, kissing the teacher in an attempt to get detention). What I like is that unlike most bullies who singles out the underdog is that Buddy really doesn't fear anyone (including the aforementioned jock and even the school security guard).

9. Star Trek 4 The Voyage Home: I overall enjoy it for the same reason many do. The attempts made by the crew to fit in with the people of Earth in 1986 are hilarious. Moments including Chekov's nuclear wessels line, Spock littering his sentences with profanity, Scotty talking to the computer, Kirk and Spock arguing about Italian food.

10. Star Trek 2 The Wraith of Khan: If ST 4 is the most humorous of the six films, then this could be the best at being more emotional. Even if reversed in the next movie, Spock's death was well handled at you really felt for the character's reaction to his death. Plus the conflict between Kirk and Khan is entertaining even if the two were never onscreen together.

11. Pee Wee's Big Adventures: To be honest, unlike some movies where I can easily choose the most comedic scene, I really can't make that decision regarding this one. So either I'm too easy to please or the movie's humor is just that funny.

12. Willy Wonka and The Chocolate Factory: Decent songs, as well as the humorous moments of the people trying to find a Wonka Ticket. Plus the factory had some nice and tasty backgrounds. Frankly, I find the tunnel scene to be funny and weird (in a good way). And to go with popular opinion, Gene Wilder makes for a decent depiction of Wonka.

13. The Dark Knight: In addition to the intense story, I have to agree with many that Ledger's performance of the Joker was great. Plus, the film gives a good deal of focus to both villains. Looking forward to seeing what happens next.

14. Ferris Bueller's Day Off: Humor at pretty much every turn with Ferris trying to enjoy a perfect (unethical) day off with his friends, while Principal Edward Rooney tries to expose him. I can barely think of a dull scene. Plus, like Willy Wonka, the songs are pleasant to listen to (My favorite being the "Oh Yeah" song when Ferris and Cameron are in the garage).

15. Gremlins: As a kid, I never actually found the Gremlins to be scary. Heck, found some of their antics to be funny. Aside from them, Gizmo is one of my favorite characters (Yes, I'm a guy who can enjoy cute animal characters depending on the execution). Plus, the movie certainly works a both a Halloween and a Christmas film.

16. The Princess Bride: Another enjoyable movie which has a little of everything (action/adventure/comedy/romance). In addition, pretty much any scene with dialogue from Vezzini is gold.

17. Beauty & The Beast (Disney Animated Version): Was one of my favorite Disney Animated films growing up. Aside from the Beast turning into a prince at the end, the movie did okay for doing a role reversal (Ugly hero and handsome villain).

18. The Sword In The Stone: I still enjoy it, but I can't really find an overall thing to say about it. So I'll provide my favorite moments which include Wart and Merlin having to deal with girl squirrels who can't take no for an answer, the wizard's duel and Archimedes criticising Merlin for trying to educate someone on information relevent to the future.

19. Jingle All The Way: I'm not insisting that the movie is gold or even bronze. It's simply one of my guilty pleasures. As for the why, seeing Arnold Schwarzenegger (action film star) as a workaholic dad gives this humor in my opinion.

20. The Fly (1958): Heartwarming moments between the family and the suspenseful on how much the scientist is changed when his experiment backfires on him make this a memorable film.

Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
Algernon's comment about Norman Osborn: One of the neat things about Dark Reign is that it gives Osborn the chance to expand his horizons beyond tormenting a twenty nine year old who still lives with his mom.

Here's something. Remember our favorite fun loving gargoyle comic reviewer? He's back, with a review of CB V2.


Sorry if this has already been posted. Im just too lazy to look.

Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1 at sbcglobal dot net]

Greg B> YOu surprise me! That's hard to do!

YOu list "Casablanca" on your top films list when most others are violentish films. And you say that Casablanca is a "perfect" film. I totally agree with you, and that's hard to do!

Casablanca is in my opinion, the most well-written film ever wrote. It's also one of the most well-acted films, too.

People laugh at me when I tell them that I like the film. "Oh, it's so old," "Oh, it's in black and white, I can't watch it," They are ignorant and don't know what they are talking about.

I will try to list my top films list soon.

Also, Greg, I agree that "Lord of the Rings" is all one movie; (It boggles my mind how the Academy nominated Peter Jackson for 1&3 and not two when they were all shot together. It actually pisses me off.)

However, I don't agree that Godfather one and two are interchangeable; I find them totally different films but yet very similar...

And lastly, Yup. Bill Murray was ROBBED of his Oscar. (Although, Sean Penn was good in Mystic River.)

battle Beast - [SUPPORT SLG]
That is all I will say.

Warcrafter> *shrugs* My role is probably just as background as yours was. I'm just an extra as a security guard. I don't even know if I have any lines.

That said, thanks for the congrats.

KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.

Well, if we're going to talk about movies. If this is spam, I apologize. But I love movies, and sometimes I think discussing favorite movies is a good way to get to know each other.

Okay, the Nostalgia Critic broke character recently and listed his Top Twenty favorite movies. I was impressed by his list. By what was on it, more so by what wasn't on it as well. It was close to a list I would make. Very different at the same time, though.

So, I decided to write down my Top Twenty favorite movies and why. Keep in mind, this is all just my opinion.

Top Twenty Favorite Films

Note: I am typing up my favorite films here. Not necessarily what I consider to be the greatest, but definitely my favorites.

20. The Dark Knight – Arguably, the greatest comic book film ever made. It transcends the genre to the point where you could easily take away the comic book label, call it a crime drama, and, frankly, that would be a more accurate statement. Heath Ledger's Joker is the scariest villain to appear in a film since Anthony Hopkins' Dr. Hannibal Lecter. This film not only met its hype, it exceeded it.

19. Sleeping Beauty – This is pure art. Piotr Ilych Tchaikovsky's ballet brought to life to moving paintings. Every frame of this classic is just breathtaking. The light and the dark balance each other out very well, as the mortals are used as pawns in a battle between good and evil. Of course, it also brought us Maleficent, the most memorable villain from any Disney film. It's an animated ballet through and through.

18. The Shining – A classic by Stanley Kubrick that will never be forgotten. This movie accomplished what so few others have been able to do. It actually frightened me. As an adult, it makes me want to hide under a blanket as I watch it. Watching Jack Torrence slowly descend into madness was so frightening, and simply because it was so human. My favorite scene in the film has to be when his wife, played by Shelly Duvall, discovers just what he has spent the last few months typing.

17. The Big Lebowski – I love the Coen Brothers. And I especially love this comedic take on a film noir mystery. But, instead of Sam Spade, we have the laziest man in Los Angeles as our reluctant protagonist. Jeff Bridges and John Goodman tie the film together just as that rug tied the Dude's apartment together. Easily one of the funniest movies I have ever watched.

16. Annie Hall – In the long, up and down career of Woody Allen, this remains his best movie. A very smart romantic comedy on the difficulty of relationships. How they are built up, how they fall apart, but how they are ultimately worth the pursuit of it. Whether it lasts or not, one person can have a profound impact on you, and this 1977 Best Picture winner truly earned it's statue. Definitely more than the "popular competition" that year.

15. True Romance - Probably one of Tony Scott's best movies, and it was Quentin Tarantino's first script. An all star cast you could never get today as so many of them have since gone on to become huge stars. I think my favorite scene in this movie has to be the conversation between Christopher Walken and Dennis Hopper on the history of Sicily. Not to mention that intense and violent scene between James Gandolfini (long before he became Tony Soprano) and Patricia Arquette. My only gripe is that I think Tarantino's original ending was the better one. Stealing, Cheating, Killing. Who said romance is dead?

14. Richard III – Specifically, Sir Ian McKellen's version of Richard III. Now, I for one enjoy it when modern films transplant Shakespeare's plays into different time settings. It works perfectly when shooting for allegory. McKellan's Richard III is as much a presentation of the play as it is a story about fascism. The acting is top notch, and the visuals are beautiful.

13. The Last Temptation of Christ – It's really no secret that Martin Scorsese is my favorite Hollywood director. He takes on subject matters that interest me and turns them into sublime movie going experiences. It's little surprise that he did the same with the story of Jesus Christ. What I like about this movie is that it turns Jesus into a reluctant messiah. He is just so human in this, and let's face it, whether he was God on Earth or not, we know he was a man… he didn't spend all that time praying for something different in Gethsemane for nothing. My favorite sequence is at the end, the What If he gave in and accepted Satan's offer for a normal life. But, he does the right thing at the end and dies so that man's sins can be forgiven.

12. A Clockwork Orange – Another Kubrick film, yes. I like this one for one simple reason. It makes one consider just how far society should go to destroy our own monsters. Alex was, without question, a monster. But what was done to him was just as monstrous as anything he'd done. In the end it all comes down to your own beliefs, the movie doesn't make that choice for you.

11. Lost In Translation – Sofia Coppola may not have been much of an actress. But, with this film, we've learned that she's a Hell of a director and writer. I am also a huge fan of Bill Murray and thought he was terrific in this film. He was cheated out of his Oscar for it though. But, this film, like the rest of Murray's work will stand the test of time.

10. The Lord of the Rings – They were all shot at once. I count them all as one film. A sweeping twelve hour epic. What else has the scope? While I don't necessarily believe that bigger means better, this film accomplished so much with it's size alone, that it was often awe inspiring. In contrast, the little, quiet moments were my favorite aspects of the film. Well cast, and special effects that I think will stand the test of time. Other franchises have followed, trying to film multiple movies at once, but have not succeeded like this has.

09. Goodfellas – Martin Scorsese again. This time he brings with him the always dependable Robert De Niro, Ray Liotta and Joe Pesci. As with all of Scorsese's films, it is sublime, and beautiful to look at. Watching how these men has changed over the decades as the mob came to power there and eventually lost it is an epic experience. This is a movie I cannot recommend enough. If you haven't seen it. Go home, get your shine box, and watch it!

08. There Will Be Blood – Three words: Daniel Day Lewis. I have often said that he is the greatest actor alive today. I loved him as Bill the Butcher in "Gangs of New York" but, I had to give it to him for this film. Just remember how intense he was in "Gangs" and imagine it getting that much more intense, and you have Daniel Plainview. Of course, I have to shout out to P.T. Anderson, one of my favorite directors for turning the story of this terrible human being into a work of beauty.

07. Bonnie And Clyde – There are those who would call this the ultimate love story. I'm not one of them, but it comes pretty close. The great depression was a horrible time and it turned these two into horrible people. But, throughout it all, you can't help but root for them, and during the climatic end, you are almost disgusted. Sadly, their wishes weren't honored and they weren't buried side by side… and event though they were infamous criminals, you can't help but feel for them. Desperate times create desperate people.

06. Titus – Ah yes, my favorite film based on a Shakespeare play. Now, I know this is one of the Bard's more controversial plays, but I cannot see why. Either way, Julie Taymor cements her place as a great filmmaker with this one. I loved Hopkins as Titus. But more than that, I was struck by Jessica Lange as Tamora. Now, I've seen the play performed at the Hudson Valley Shakespeare festival a year before the film came out, and both have been a source of inspiration for me in my own writings. On top of all that, the movie is gorgeous to look at.

05. Reservoir Dogs – I love this movie. I love the way it's told. I love the way it's directed. I love the entire cast. I love the choice of music. It's really a very simple movie. It's not at all over-plotted. But sometimes less is more. There is only one action sequence, and it happens off screen, you just hear the characters talk about it. When your actors are as great as this cast, that can be more powerful than the biggest action sequence money can buy (chew on that one, Michael Bay!). Tarantino's first film, which set the stage for a very promising career.

04. Citizen Kane – It has been called the greatest film of all time. You know what? It is. Every frame of the movie is art. The character of Charles Foster Kane is a compelling, even if he's a despicable protagonist. And the story is told entirely through other people's perspective of him. Citizen Kane changed the way movies were made forever. I often wonder how it must have felt to be Orson Welles. He peaked young and never found this level of success again.

03. Pulp Fiction – My favorite Tarantino film. Now, I know that some people don't get the non-linear story telling. But, I love it. All of these events intersect, and you get a clearer and clearer picture of it all on multiple viewings. There is always much more to find. My favorite sequence has to be when Vincent accidentally shoots Marvin in the face, and he and Jules need to take refuge in the suburbs until the Wolf shows up to cover up the murder. Has Tarantino peaked with this movie? So far, the answer is yes. But he's still relatively young and I'm sure he has a lot more in store for us.

02. The Godfather – The ultimate crime movie. But really, it's all about family. In the Corleone family, we definitely see a real family at work. While all this evil is going on around them, even being caused by them, the Corleones never cease to be compelling. From Sonny getting shot in an attempt to protect his sister from her abusive husband to Vito accepting that his son, Michael, is going to follow in his footsteps and become the next Don when he had hoped that Michael would be the one to escape the life. The final shot of the movie is my favorite final shot in any movie when Kay realizes exactly what Michael has become.

02. The Godfather Part II – What? Two number twos? Well, I cannot count the first one without this one. They just work so well together and integrate so seamlessly that you can easily watch this immediately following the first and feel like you're watching the same film. Michael's chosen life destroys his marriage and his family. Watching him go from a man to a monster is the most powerful fall from grace in the history of cinema. And as he sits there at the end, you know that he knows it. His father did horrible things, but never like this. Speaking of his father, the flashbacks with Vito building the empire are breathtaking. My favorite sequence in the film has to be when Vito goes back to Sicily and takes his revenge on Don Ciccio.

And now, comes my choice for number one. My all time favorite movie… I hate to be predictable but…

01. Casablanca – Yes. It took me years and years of pondering all these movies to reach this decision, but "Casablanca" is my all time favorite movie. There are very few films that you can label perfect. But with this film, you can slap that label on it and not feel bad. I wish I could say that I watched this movie cold, but it is so ingrained in our pop culture that you know entire sequences before you watch them. But that does not take away from the experience that is this film. Humphrey Bogart has never made a bad movie, and before this came out, no one ever thought of him as a romantic lead. But he more than pulled it off when he played Rick Blaine. The studio originally wanted Ronald Reagan for the role, but I think we can all be grateful that didn't happen. Ingrid Bergman is just luminous as Ilsa Lund, and you can see why these two men both love her enough to suffer for her. But, my favorite character in the movie has to be Claude Rains as Captain Louis Renault, he has all the best one liners in the movie.

"Bonnie and Clyde" is not the greatest love story ever filmed, "Casablanca" is.

Yes, yes, I know my top choice is a bit of a cliché at this point. But clichés are that for a reason. So, "Casablanca"… my favorite film.

Greg Bishansky

This is off-topic, but I saw "Jennifer's Body" recently and I thoroughly enjoyed it. It's probably the funniest movie I've seen at a movie theater in months. I think the comedy/horror genre is woefully under-appreciated and under-used and I'm glad we have this new addition. I'm sure some of you probably don't trust my taste in movies, so FYI, Roger Ebert gave it a positive review.

Todd> [SPOILER] Yeah, I think Greg talked a little about the Stirling-Sruiglea connection at the Blue Mug during this year's Gathering if I'm not mistaken. Apparently, a much larger clan once existed in the area and the seven gargoyles and the beast were the only survivors, forming one cell of Demona's Clan. This is similiar to the main gargoyles and beasts in the comic all being from Wyvern originally and thus making up the Wyvern Cell. [/SPOILER]
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" -Sevarius, 'Louse'

"Goliath might as well have been quoting a frakkin' fortune cookie..."

Goliath (dramatic voiceover): "Do not follow where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail."
Demona (from the next room): "Between the sheets."
Angela: "MOTHER!"

Patrick - [<-- Gathering T-shirt Clearance Sale]
"Yay! I'm meeting people!" - Dr. Zoidberg, "Futurama"

Todd: Well, as I think I pointed out in my synopsis, the average TGC episode never required much thought. I mean, Goliath might as well have been quoting a frakkin' fortune cookie at the beginning of each episode (and for all we know, he was).
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"It's not about money. It's about sending a message. Everything burns." -The Joker

Patrick> Moving out of lurker mode to point out that I have always had a blurb at the begining of each of my fanfiction chapters about the comics. I have been making a conscious effort on fanfiction.net to spread the word among the fanfic community. I also had them add a bunch of the new characters to the characters list page. (Katana, Pog, Sacrifice, The Tasmanian Tiger etc...though as of right now, I'm the only one with any fics staring new characters.)

Moving back to lurker mode now.

Chip - [Sir_Griff723 at yahoo dot com]

TODD> I've always had a problem with how easily Doyle absconded with Alex. It doesn't make sense that a couple of goons in a helicopter could succeed where the godlike might of Oberon hadn't just a few episodes before.

King Cobra> Congrats! I was a dancer in a disney music video for the show "Zeke and Luther" not to long ago, but that's still considered background. *Jealous* :D
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1 at sbcglobal dot net]

I did a little research (Internet research, so it might not count, and found out that [SPOILER] Sruighlea, after which the gargoyle cell massacred by Constantine and Gillecomgain in "The Gate" was named, is a real place in Scotland; it's Gaelic for "Stirling", a major historic town in Scotland. [/SPOILER]
Todd Jensen

Greg Bishansky > I'll mail you a check for your share of the TGS royalties, but I'll have to deduct postage. Oops, now you owe me 44 cents. :P

Todd > In that Batman: TAS episode, as I recall, the Arkham crowd all get together in an attempt to do that common criminal in for getting rid of Batman and thereby leaving them with no challenge. No "good" deed goes unpunished, as it were. :P

Re: TGS > I think ANY fanfic would be doing some good promotion by having a blurb at the top about the DVDs and the comics. I'm not sure why TGS is getting singled out as "better" in that respect than any of the other massive fanfic universes that are out there.

Patrick - [<-- Gathering T-shirt Clearance Sale]
"Yay! I'm meeting people!" - Dr. Zoidberg, "Futurama"

HARVESTER - I fear you're right about that, but it still strikes me that if a relative nobody like Doyle can break into the Eyrie Building, it can't be much of a refuge for the gargoyles - and nobody in the episode thinks about the implications.

That reminds me of something else about the Goliath Chronicles. Except for the Assassin in "Generations" (who wasn't that popular), almost all the new antagonists after "The Journey" are ordinary criminals - Doyle, Radar, the two guys going after Bronx in "A Bronx Tail", the nameless mobster in "And Justice For All". Maybe the new production team wanted this, to give a more realistic tone to the series or to make the gargoyles stand out more, but it still seems strange that the newcomers should be giving the clan such a difficult time. (Imagine Batman, after all those clashes with the Arkham Asylum crowd, getting done in by an ordinary petty crook - though I've heard that there was an episode of "Batman:TAS" that used such a premise, though of course, Batman turned out to be not really dead.)

Todd Jensen

Ed> Thanks.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.

KingCobra: Forgot to say before, congratulations!

Meeting Mickey Rourke> I suppose that's slightly cooler then being an extra in a movie starring John Malkovich.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.

@ Greg: Not THAT cool. It's cool, but not "ha-ha-cool".

In fact, I AM shaky. I'd not be with Mickey Rourke, guy seems really cool and laid back, but you just don't know how a rapper is on a particular day, if he thinks you're alright or not, if he likes what you say, etc...

Since a bird told me that Brad Pitt doesn't do anything apart from spraying his various lizards with water all day long and actually hires people just to care for them when he's gone, I'm not that interested in meeting Hollywood stars... there are some I would love to meet (and yeah, Mickey Rourke is one of them), but I'd rather work with them. ;) ;) But that's in some years...

I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!

Asatira> "Congrats on the part! It is a nice step up from earlier stuff. Here's to more!"

Thanks. :D

It may open some doors, but, then, it also may not. I'm just grateful for the chance to act in something that I would consider mainstream, if only once.

Necros Vs. Greg B> Okay, it's over and done with. Greg B may have jumped the gun, or he may not have, depending on personal perspectives. I do think Necros was a bit out of line. He got told 'No', but, instead of doing the sensible thing and dropping it, he got upset and started name calling. Really, IMO, he should've just dropped it at the first sign of opposition and not indirectly cause this mildly angry conversation I see on my screen.

KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.

Wu Tang Clan, eh? Cool. I got to meet Mickey Rourke last week.
Greg Bishansky
"Genetic engineering helps us correct God's horrible mistakes... like German people." - Mr. Garrison

@ Harlan: Cause some old fans who would look for Garg-Fanfics, yet don't know of the comics, might read it, and reading a disclaimer might go "OH, what, this is the fan-continuation, but Weisman actually DID A COMIC?? Why didn't I know?? I must buy this!!"

Maybe. Maybe not. But we're desperate, aren't we?? ;)

@ Greg B.: I get that. Thing is, it's not the first time people ticked... course, you're not entitled, and they're not the ones to tick out... yah, let's shake hands and let the matter rest, OK?? :)

And we're ALL in it for the money. I've actually got to talk to somebody from the Wu Tang Clan next week for that matter... I'm shaky and ON THE EDGE... ;) ;)

I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!


King Cobra> Congrats on the part! It is a nice step up from earlier stuff. Here's to more!


Brook> Or we could...not...do what he said.

Why use stories that don't matter in the context of the story we'd be trying to advertise?

Harlan Phoenix

BROOK> I was polite, firm, but polite. He exploded, and flew off the handle.

I am not here to massage anyone's entitlement complex. He could have easily dropped the matter, or tried to more eloquently make his case. He did neither.

"You're a stubborn ass"
"You're in it for the money."

And calling Patrick and I morons. For someone who supposedly admired our work enough to declare it better than Greg Weisman's (which it is not), he certainly has no idea how to respect the human beings behind said work.

He wanted something, he was told 'no' and he threw a fit. Like that kid at the department store who is told to wait until his birthday, Christmas, or a good report card if he wants that new video game.

In the industry I want to be a part of, there are more than enough entitlement complexes that I will have to deal with. I have no intention of putting up with them if I'm not getting paid.

Guess I am in it for the money. LOL.

Greg Bishansky
"Genetic engineering helps us correct God's horrible mistakes... like German people." - Mr. Garrison

@ Harlan: Whatever Yu Gi Oh card, as long as I can call you McDermott. Or Prize. :)

See - all I'm saying is: guy felt offended, and I can see why. That he overreacted was due to his temper and shit, but that's just not the first time people came on here offering or asking for something and after a few posts went "Hey, whatever, you guys are assholes.", whether they actually said that or not...

What I'm saying is that, well, we should consider doing what he said. Might be a good idea to promote the new stuff this way... Might also be not that good, but it should be tried out...

I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!

Brook>Well aren't you just an Obnoxious Celtic Guardian?*

Nobody's suggesting staying in the status quo. People are suggesting that people should be the opposite of stupid. If people actually have good ideas and communicate these ideas in ways that aren't stupid and presumptuous, people will have no problem going along with these ideas.

You know what isn't a difficult concept? What I just said.

* http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Obnoxious_Celtic_Guardian

Harlan Phoenix
Until I see your position summed up in Yu-Gi-Oh! cards, I don't care about what you have to say.

@ Demonskrye: Oh, and "In it for the money" is something I've heard a lot in england, when it came to say "I'm in it for..." the sex, the fun, the alcohol, etc. dunno if he's british or not, but some people used that phrase when talking bout other stuff... potentially being drunk....
I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!

@ Demonskrye: I'm not talking about walking on eggshell, but just being a bit nicer with each other. He wasn't offending until he felt offended by somebodys tone/choice of words.

Calling each other names isn't good for the room, and so is being harsh.

I don't say any side is better than the other - I just say we should consider such things and not just go "What? That idea is completely absurd. I, as somebody who's in charge, assure you that you won't do it with my stuff. Thank you."

Because, well, maybe sometimes in the future it might tick somebody off who really has a great idea that might be a lot worth to, say, bringing Gargoyles back, having another convention or assuring financing/providing help with one of those issues. That's about it. I'm not pointing at anybody, but, well yeah, staying in a status quo doesn't really help. We have to find new and possibly unconventional ways to promote the comics, and maybe Necrowhatshisname is one person less who buys the comics now, and so might be 2 friends of his whom he tells how offending that one poster was to him when it came to Gargoyles (whether the poster WAS offending or not doesn't matter, as long as the person felt offended).

So yeah, no eggshell walking, but maybe just a nicer choice of words. Is all I'm saying...

And I don't even know what Yu Gi Oh is, apart from some cards and monsters...

I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!

My second copy of Clan-Building 2 arrived from Amazon.co.uk today. I pre-ordered it so obviously there's still quite a lag getting them all out.

TGS: I had a blast reading it and writing it, but when TGS was good it was because the writers didn't get held back writing by committee or trying to build on an arbitrary continuity out of vague rumours from Greg circa 1997, and wrote from their passions and carved out their own niche. That produced some genuinely good work from time to time, but as regards 'Gargoyles' it was never going to be a substitute for the true, authentic voice of its creator.

Brook: TGS would be more useful as a promotional tool if there was a mention of the comic on its front page.

Demonskrye: I think "forever" in this case means as long as Greg is alive and able to tell stories so it would never take 200 years. I think the point is that some concepts are finite and Gargoyles really isn't. There will always be *an ending*, just not *the ending*. Even if Greg did nothing but write Gargoyles solidly and eventually decided that he'd said all he has to say with Gargoyles and that any future stories would be weaker than those that went before, it wouldn't be closure so much as surrender.

Todd: I think you're right that the attitudes to gargoyles were driven by pragmatism more than ideology. Malcolm's attitude towards Hudson in "Long Way To Morning", the Archmage with Demona, Katharine and the Magus in "Awakening", Bodhe's advice in 1057 and [SPOILER] the Grim's line "the solution is the solution of our fathers" [/SPOILER] all have at heart a similar flavour: the gargoyles are seen as tools, specifically weapons. You can fear a weapon or use it against a tyrant but it's pointless to either love or hate it. They're just facts of life to be used or destroyed. Most of the gargoyle-slaughterers you mention take the same pragmatic attitude (e.g. the Captain tells Hakon that pursuing the Vikings isn't in their nature). Gillecomgain had a different agenda, but then Gillecomgain had a very specific motive. And even Brigti's attitude is more that you'd expect if his son had been playing with a rifle and it went off in his hands than if he'd been ambushed by a conscious being.


Brook> I have to agree that I don't think Necros/Panther was treated unfairly. Greg B expressed his opinions on the idea and exercised his right as one of the TGS authors to not grant permission for his works to be posted on fanfiction.net, after which Necros promptly deemed Greg "a stubborn ass." I don't think that posting TGS was the worst idea I had ever heard but I don't know that it's the best way to promote the property (offering an alternate continuation of "Gargoyles" and then inviting people to buy the comic) and it's the TGS writers' choice whether or not they wish to have their work poster elsewhere. I do think the comment room should be a welcoming place, but I don't think that means we all have to walk around on eggshells or hesitate to express our opinions on an idea someone else proposes, especially when that idea involves someone else's work. Given how quick Necros was to call names and create an alternate identity when it turned out that his plan wasn't getting support from the TGS writers, I feel like he would have been upset about something sooner or later, even if this hadn't happened. His idea wasn't inherently bad, but his behavior and his insistence that a fanfiction continuation of the "Gargoyles" story was just as good as one from Greg W. made it difficult for anyone to feel like getting on board.

I don't see how he could have been using "in it for the money" as a metaphor for anything. Copyright is not an issue with fanfiction and if Necros had been suggesting psting the TGS stories without giving the original authors any kind of credit, he would not have had a leg to stand on from the start. I still have no clue what he meant, since no TGS authors are making any money from their TGS work, no mater where it's posted.

Gorebash> Thanks for sharing the pics of the statue. The style isn't my personal cup of tea, but the scale is quite impressive and it's always nice to see more "Gargoyles" merchandise out there.

London Clan> I think that's a strong possibility, Todd. I imagine a lot of the more isolationist clans (though the London Clan is not exactly isolationist) got to be that way partly because they saw that neighboring clans that were closely involved with humans were being wiped out. The truly isolationist modern clans have the additional advantage of remote or well hidden home turf, like the Loch Ness clan. But since they're located close to a major human population center, the London Clan seems to have taken a "hide in plain sight" tactic, along with keeping to themselves.

"Gargoyles" forever> I have to admit, I'm torn. On the one hand, it's appealing to think that a story I enjoy could potentially keep going for years on end. But on the other hand, it's kind of not. If the series was caught up to the current year and continuing in roughly "real time" - with each story taking place in roughly the year that it was published, aired, what have you - we'd still be nearly 200 years away from the point where the main series becomes 2198. I don't know about the rest of you, but I assume I will be dead by then. So I really can't get my self that excited about the possibility of reading every "Gargoyles" story ever conceived, knowing that it's highly unlikely that I'll be around to see the whole thing. It also means that the fight to keep "Gargoyles" alive would be indefinite. It's never going to be just one movie, just one more graphic novel, just one text story. And I'm just not sure if a permanently ongoing "Gargoyles" story in any format is something that I can realistically see happening.

Demonskrye - [<---"Snow White" Part Two at The Ink and Pixel Club]

Brook: Shouldn't you have talked to Rebel before posting?
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"It's not about money. It's about sending a message. Everything burns." -The Joker

Brook>Until I see your position summed up in Yu-Gi-Oh! cards, I don't care about what you have to say.
Harlan Phoenix

Also, he came in here and was very polite. As mentioned, I don't think the no resulted in this behavior. I think it's wrong, sure, but I can understand why he got that worked up, cause he seemed to have felt mistreated, and I can see where that is coming from. Saying "TGS has their own site, people know it's there." for example, or formulate a message like a pre-formulated company-letter where you just have to set in a name might give a person the feeling of being mistreated/that the person writing this is an arrogant ass. Whether the adressed formulates his thoughts or not is his thing, sure, and I don't say it was right by him, but it doesn't change the fact how he feels. He might have as well stopped posting entirely, that doesn't change the fact that his idea wasn't THAT bad to not have been taken into consideration, cause... well yeah, it might be a good idea to spread the word this way to people who might not know that the comics are out or who simply stumble on the Fanfics and like it and want to look further.
I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!

I don't want to defend anybody,I just say his idea was kinda interresting/needed a bit of work and then might have been good. So it should have been considered and not shrugged off that quickly and without consideration.
I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!

Brook> So your instinct is to defend someone who wanted to see a continuation of a beloved story by a talented individual and his team by pimping out the stories of ADMIRERS only, and then propelling these stories to the status of canonicity just because he wants to see the story FINISH (note the usage of finale), despite both Hunter's Moon and Phoenix providing decent, open ended endings.

And when he was not allowed to be propelled to some level of Holocron-savvy editor to give people this Gargoyles finale only he is clamoring for, he insults people. Nay, he insults one of the VERY AUTHORS WHOSE WORK HE WANTS TO DISTRIBUTE.

Erm, wuuut?

Allow me to put this into different terms. Terms that will help the both of us understand this better.


This is Exodia Necross. If you close one eye and put that closed eye over the last s, that makes Exodia Necros. Exodia is much more awesome than Necros. Exodia Necross is literally the revived spirit of an invincible god. To defeat Necross, you literally have to be a grave robber and dig up the body parts of the most powerful force in existence, who only died just so he could come back as an invincible ghost to beat you up for his amusement.

Now, you might ask, what does this have to do with ANYTHING?

Let's say Exodia is Greg Weisman.

Let's say Exodia's awesome ability to destroy everything ever by just being around is Gargoyles.

Now, let's look at Necros.

Necros wants to be Necross, as he wants to be what unleashes the awesome power of Exodia, e.i. Gargoyles canon. Regardless of the source, Necros wants to Necross the story back into existence.

Unfortunately, Necros fails. When you take even one piece of the actual Exodia out of the equation (say, the "graveyard"), Exodia Necross cannot function. Thus, Necros's plan cannot function once he disregards Weisman and, in effect, Weixodia's ability to destroy every single thing in existence at the blink of an eye...or write Gargoyles. Whichever.

Clearly, this cannot work, and he both disrespected the people he wanted to advertise/take over Exodia's power and assumed he was important to do so. This is wrong. Above all else, if you want to continue Gargoyles, there's only one thing you need to do: Buy the comics. Buy the DVDs. Support the line. Spread the word. Unless you really want to do it yourself, but unless you have....


...then you won't get very far.

In English: Necros was being stupid and presumptuous, wanting to raise fanfiction to the height of canon due to his selfish desire to see a story finish without any sense of artistic integrity. He then insulted people when they wouldn't do what he wanted. Then he said he was a panther, which is weird. He's probably a furry.

Brook, to defend him is stupid because he's disrespectful. And stupid.

It's like running a Necross deck without actually running Exodia.

*Points to Necros at my side*

And that's the Word.

Harlan Phoenix

BROOK> While Greg B. can be a tad... defensive at times, he didn't fire the first shot here. Greg didn't want Necros/Panther/whoevere posting his TGS stories and Greg B expessed his decicion with a firm but respectful no.

It was then that Necros started up with the insults and conspiaricy theories. Greg B> is the one under attack here, nnot Necros.


@ B: I think you were rather harsh - not even impolite, just very harsh. I know sometimes it doesn't feel like that to yourself, but it was... formulated considerably definite.

As for "in it for the money", I think that was a metaphor for copyright/credit.

Personally, I think everything that might grab the attention of people outside of the Gargoyles community that might include an announcement of the Comics and the DVDs is cool, so... well, even if you don't give it to Necron, it would be worth a thought to upp them there and put in a disclaimer saying "hey, if you like this and are a fan, Greg W actually continued the series in Comic form and DVDs are out, and if you buy them you might actually guarantee the show a future." or something like that...

Any promotion is good promotion...

I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!

Brook> I was polite. I got nasty when he got nasty. I said no, he called me an ass and accused me of just being in it for the money... and I still want to know what the hell that was supposed to mean?

Patrick, are there TGS royalties that I was not told of. Stop hoarding them! ;)

Greg Bishansky

Oh, name calling - I personally also do think name calling is not OK, but I don't think it wasn't the "no" that caused it, but the language it was formulated in.

If people want me to so something, most likely I say "Hey there, I'm really sorry, but I think I'm against it/unable to do this, cause..." - it doesn't hurt and I won#t get called an ass afterwards. :)

I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!

I don't say he had to say yes, I just think people should have been a bit more polite in the words they've chosen.

Saying No and giving reasons is OK, sure, but personally, I like tread people and be treated politely.

I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!

Brook: Contrary to what you might think, a person is not obligated to say yes to a request even if the request is nicely phrased. Necros asked, they said "no" and expressed their reasons why. He then resorted to name calling, and refused to let it slide.

First rule of negotiations: name calling is bad. If this had been a hostage situation, everyone would be exploded now.

I swear, one of the reasons this country has gone to shit in a space pod is because everyone thinks they're automatically entitled to everything.

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"It's not about money. It's about sending a message. Everything burns." -The Joker

None of you would have ever realized Panther was Necros if his avatar was Future Tense Brooklyn with a mustache.
Harlan Phoenix


See, and that is why newbies leave this place... Geez...

Anyways, @ Necros, there's a freeforum, click my username to get to it. Even though most of the authors are over here, people might be able to give you the mail contacts of some authors, and see how it goes.

Personally, I think having those TGS-things posted somewhere, together with a disclaimer that they're written by XXX and that the comic written by Greg W is out and cheap, might actually do some good and might get attention, but then again, Greg B was pretty... obvious about what his standpoint is.

Personally, I really liked Sata. Katana is, as far as what we've seen from her, not a character yet. I'm really interested in what way Greg W will write her though.

I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!

Well, I've just got one more thing to say about last night.



"Hello my name is Mr. Snrub, and I come from some place far away. Yes, that will do. Anyway I say we invest that money back in the nuclear plant.

I like the way Snrub thinks!


Greg Bishansky

Addendum: Apologies for double-posting, but of course, anyone who is in the Los Angeles/Anaheim area is more than welcome to join us, even if we don't get Greg et al to show up. :)

And, I suppose, if you wanted to trek out here for a day at a park, you could do that, too.

Guardian - [Guardian105 at gmail dot com]

Holy crap, the things you miss in a day.

TGS is better than Greg's own product? Sorry, those people were fine writers, but when it comes to Gargoyles, there can only be one.

. . . Okay, so my friend that I convinced to come with Gathering has placed an idea in my head. Sometime in December she wants to visit either D-Land or Universal. Would any one happen to know how I could possibly invite the Holy Trinity (Greg Weisman, Thom Adcox-Hernandez, and Keith David) and/or others to come along, make it a pseudo-Gathering? Just goin' to a park an' havin' fun.

Guardian - [Guardian105 at gmail dot com]

Hmm.. did Webster's change the definition of "profit" to mean "devoting your time and effort to something while not making any money"?

*checks his dictionary*

Nope. I don't see it there. Times like these, I wish Rosetta Stone offered something on how to speak Flaming Idiot.

Anyway, moving along...

Todd: An important thing to remember about TGC is that they often discarded plot points or characteristics at will, whenever it suited their needs. I haven't seen "Ransom" in a while, but I'm sure they probably decided to forget all the firepower Xanatos has in his parapets.

Don't really have anything new to add to the discussion on Duncan, but there's something else I've been wondering for a while. Both Duncan and his son put on the Hunter's mask largely for political reasons. Duncan knew how gargoyles had affected past battles, and Malcolm was trying to gain allies among the English (although the English probably had other reasons for allying with him, not just the killing of gargoyles). It also felt like Canmore's vendetta was more against Macbeth than it was Demona. He had Demona's clan killed because he knew that he probably couldn't control them. As we see in later generations, the hunt against gargoyles actually seemed to become a sacred mission associated with the name Canmore, free of any political ideology.

According to the Gargwiki, the hunt was maintained through Malcolm's son, Donald. I've been wondering what happened to make the family continue the hunt, and one of the theories I've come up with is that in an act of revenge, Demona murdered Donald's mother. I know it's not clear what year she died or if she was ever even Queen of Scotland, but still... just pondering.

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"It's not about money. It's about sending a message. Everything burns." -The Joker

Off-topic> So I've actually been cast in a Disney movie.

Will be playing a Security Guard in the coming live action piece 'Secretariat'. It's a minor role, but a bit of a step-up from the locally shot, little seen, indie films I've been doing the last 3-4 years.


KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.

Coming out of lurker mode to make a quick comment. Sadly, though I'm enjoying the Duncan discussion, my comment is on the Necros/Panther debate.

Necros said, "I'm just a fan of Greg Weisman's work who wants to see his work completed." I for one don't want to see Greg Weisman's work completed. I want to see it continued (by Greg of course), but not completed. As Greg himself has said, there is no "finish" in the Gargoyles tapestry; it could go on indefinitely.

Anyway, back to the Duncan discussion...

Phil - [p1anderson at go dot com]

Todd> That's a very cool and interesting thought about the London Clan. I've never considered that perhaps they started isolating themselves from humanity because clans around them fell because of their interaction with humans. I wonder if any of the London gargs still feel this way. I suppose it would be somewhat ironic then that by 2198 the London Clan has become one of the clans most closely adapted to the ways of humanity (per the Gargoyles: 2198 document) and even more ironic that it is that adaption that leads to their leader and rookery being kidnapped that year. Kinda validates their original attitude a bit, I guess.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" -Sevarius, 'Louse'

After reading Necros's posts, I was reminded of a definition of a fanatic I once read: "Someone who can't change his mind and who won't change the subject."

And, yes, I'd rather see Greg Weisman do more graphic novels; I honestly think that he did a better job of continuing the story than the TGS staff did - and I was one of the TGS staff members. Probably the biggest thing I learned from working on it was that it's better to have the original writer complete the story than to have it continued by other hands.

(And it's a pity that it derailed a promising discussion we were having about Duncan and the other enemies of the gargoyles from 10th and 11th century Scotland. As I mentioned before, their actions suggest that human hostility towards gargoyles stems as much from humans fighting each other and wanting to dominate each other - and taking a dim view of anyone who gets in the way of those domination goals - as it does from fear and hatred of what they do not understand. Almost all of the gargoyle-slaughterers - Hakon, Constantine, Gillecomgain, Duncan, and Canmore - fell into this category; Gillecomgain came the closest to being driven by a pure hatred of gargoyles, but even he was eager to serve as Duncan's hired assassin and eliminate his political rivals.

I've sometimes wondered whether the London clan's "don't get involved" tendencies we saw in "M. I. A." were partly motivated by this - they saw their gargoyle neighbors to the north get wiped out because of their involvement in the civil wars over who was to sit on the Scottish throne, and decided that maybe if they left the humans alone entirely, the humans would be more likely to leave them alone.)

Todd Jensen

Last from me tonight...

Gore > That's one awesome sweet statue. And I see you've placed him next to Spider-Man. That looks like the beginning of a beautiful friendship. ;)

Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2009]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka

Seriously... It's bad enough Necros/Panther/whoever it is already missed key points made by some people already...
The One Known As Mochi - [shogi dot keima dot 08 at gmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>**)> Caffeine...

Enough with the silly name calling. I'm having junior high flashbacks.
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2009]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka

i'm not saying i do it doofus, i'm saying you do it, if you want the credit you do the work yourself
Panther growls

NECROS> Permission is still denied. I'm not "doing business" with anyone who calls me an ass and then thinks I'm too stupid to see through something as pathetically obvious as that.

And that is all I'm going to say to you. Permission still denied.

MATT> I honestly have no reason to think Duncan had any deeper reasons to destroy the gargoyles at Moray. I think, as always, it came down to sad and simple bigotry, and paranoia that they were an element that he, even as king, could not control.

Hell, look at his grandfather, Maol Chalvim. He didn't care for gargoyles much either.

Greg Bishansky

party pooper

just think about it will ya

Panther growls


So what were we talking about again?

Oh yeah, Duncan and the like.

Todd> Great post about the goings on in 11th century Scotland.

So, does anyone have any ideas why Duncan's immediate response to finding those gargoyles in "CoS2" was to destroy them? I mean obviously gargs didn't have a great reputation with humans at the time, but does anyone suspect there was more to it than that?

Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" -Sevarius, 'Louse'

NECROS/PANTHER> Dude... we know it's you. Your IP address gives you away. Please stop.
Greg Bishansky

Pity he went, i thought he had a good idea, it just wasn't thought out completely, here's another one.

Make a new ffnet account, connected to a public email like google or something that all of the authors have access to and post it on that, you could make the username TGS_crew or something, that way all of the authors would receive the well earned praise from the reviewers

Panther growls

Necros2303> i prefer results, not promises

Considering that we got some new stories from 2006-2009, I'd say that Greg's delivered so far.

Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
Algernon's comment about Norman Osborn: One of the neat things about Dark Reign is that it gives Osborn the chance to expand his horizons beyond tormenting a twenty nine year old who still lives with his mom.

"So Greg hasn't posted the finale of gargoyles because he doesn't own it, so what, i want to see the tale finished, whether it comes from the original author is immaterial, it only matters that it's done well."

And that is where our opinions differ. To me, it DOES matter whether it comes from the original author. "Gargoyles" by Greg Weisman is canon. Anything else is just fanfiction.

Frankly, you come across as having a massive entitlement complex.

Patrick - [<-- Gathering T-shirt Clearance Sale]
"I want the world. I want the WHOLE world... Don't care how, I want it NOW!" - Veruca Salt, "Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory"

Ah screw it, never mind, i'll take my ideas elsewhere, it's obvious i'm not going to get any support here.

So Greg hasn't posted the finale of gargoyles because he doesn't own it, so what, i want to see the tale finished, whether it comes from the original author is immaterial, it only matters that it's done well.

if Greg Weisman ever is able to finish his tale himself i'll be there to get it, but i'm not going to hold my breath for something that might never happen.

This is Necos, signing off for good, though i mutter under my breath about morons as i do

Necros2303 - [Necros dot Chris at gmail dot com]
This is Necros signing out "Bye everybody"

"As i've said before, i prefer results rather then promises, it doesn't look like Greg Weisman is going to give results anytime soon so we make our own."

Do you think that's because Greg Weisman is a big meanie who's been holding out on us for a decade? Or could it be that he can't spend his time finishing for free stories for a property to which he does not own the rights?

I, too, would much rather see more OFFICIAL "Gargoyles" material in whatever form it may come in than I would like to see more fanfiction continuing the storylines of TGS. But I'm certainly not going to grump about Greg not wanting to work for free. I'm not going to work without a paycheck. Who would?

Patrick - [<-- Gathering T-shirt Clearance Sale]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka

GREG> fine, i never had any intension of posting without permission, no need to get snippy about it, you seem to miss that i said that in just about every post.

say what you like about me, but i'm no plagiarist, i would never post without permission, nor would i ever give the idea that the episodes were my own

Necros2303 - [Necros dot Chris at gmail dot com]
This is Necros signing out "Bye everybody"

You can "know what you're talking about" all you like, but clearly, by telling me "I'm only in it for the money" you obviously, obviously don't.

What money! It was fanfiction!

Either way, I'm not changing my mind. You post those stories I mentioned, and there will be hell to pay.

Greg Bishansky

I know for a fact that there are some fics on ffnet that are a hell of a lot better then what's cannon, hell even JK Rowling pales in comparison to a fair few of them and thanks to her books she's richer then the queen.

As i've said before, i prefer results rather then promises, it doesn't look like Greg Weisman is going to give results anytime soon so we make our own.

SLG is ok, but TGS is better, and if posted on ffnet it could become even better, you just have to sift through the junk to find the good stuff that's all, i've been an avid ffnet reader for nearly 2 years so i know what i'm talking about.

Necros2303 - [Necros dot Chris at gmail dot com]
This is Necros signing out "Bye everybody"

Well, here, to spell it out for you. The following stories:

The Drowned City
Blood Moon

The Sleepers

Before the Storm
Two Roads Diverged 1 & 2
In Love's Name

Those stories have my name on them. If I see them on fanfiction.net in any form without permission, I will report them and you to the administrators and have them pulled.

You are NOT allowed to re-post those stories.

Greg Bishansky

I think TGS did a damn good job, if you can show me where Greg Weisman's work is i will gladly read it but so far i've only seen the cartoon, i have it all on dvd, and 1-8 of the manga, the post hunter's moon stuff, frankly from what i've seen there it's actually not as good as what's on TGS.

So TGS crew grabbed Greg's basic plotline and ran with it huh? I can see that happening, especially seeing as it's been over a decade since gargoyles first came out and he still ahsn't completed it, i prefer results, not promises

Necros2303 - [Necros dot Chris at gmail dot com]
This is Necros signing out "Bye everybody"

NECROS> <<You make it sound like i'm some kind of attention seeking glory hound, i'm not, i'm just a fan of Greg Weisman's work who wants to see his work completed.>>

I want to see his work completed too. But I want to see him complete it.

Seriously, would you rather see Greg complete his own work, or some random fan on fanfiction.net who can barely spell their own name?

I know that I sure as hell would not want to see some random theater goer at the Globe Theater finishing "The Tempest" for William Shakespeare.

Greg Bishansky

PATRICK> good, if you have your own ffnet account you can post it yourself

I was planning on putting a disclaimer in making it absolutely certain that it wasn't my work and putting every season as a seperate fic, therefore there would only be 12 new fics (counting pendragon and gargoyles seasons 2 as the same season).

I know that TGS isn't hard to find, but a lot more people will go looking for it if they know it exists.

admittedly it might take a couple of days rather then a single afternoon, but at least it would get the job done.

I had every intention of asking permission first and i would have made it clear in the header that i wasn't posting my own work and where to send reviews to rather then using the normal method.

You make it sound like i'm some kind of attention seeking glory hound, i'm not, i'm just a fan of Greg Weisman's work who wants to see his work completed.

Necros2303 - [Necros dot Chris at gmail dot com]
This is Necros signing out "Bye everybody"

"Gargoyles" fanfiction has been happening for something like 15 years. There are over 1600 "Gargoyles" fanfics posted on fanfiction.net right now. How exactly is posting TGS there going to draw any more attention? The main attention it's going to generate is the displeasure of a lot of the TGS authors and artists at seeing the stories credited to someone else's username.
Patrick - [<-- Gathering T-shirt Clearance Sale]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka

Necros> He didn't write the plotline for TGS either. He had nothing to do with TGS.

TGS picked up a few ideas he had, and did their own thing with them, and IMO, no where near as well.

It was apples and steam engines.

Katana is a canon character and Brooklyn's mate created by Greg Weisman who recently appeared in the comic books.

Sata is a very, very, very loosely inspired by a vague idea fanfic character created by members of the TGS Staff.

See the difference?

I'll take Katana any day.

Greg Bishansky

NECROS> I'm a fan, how the hell am I making money off of "Gargoyles"? Please tell me how that works.

I don't own "Gargoyles." I didn't work on "Gargoyles" beyond finding some references for the artists on the comic books, but just as a favor.

How could I only be in this for the money? There is no way I could ever make money on anything "Gargoyles."

I want to see Greg Weisman continue and eventually conclude his stories, because they are his stories. Not mine, not yours. And, frankly, I don't think any fan can do it like he can.

So, explain to me how I could just be in it for the money?

Greg Bishansky

GREG> fanfiction is going to happen whether you like it or not, it's already happening.

Were any of the TGS stories actually authored by Greg Weisman? No.

Greg Weisman wrote the plotline, but he didn't write the TGS episodes themselves, that is what i meant, others taking Greg Weisman's Plotline and writing the remainder of the story based on it

Necros2303 - [Necros dot Chris at gmail dot com]
This is Necros signing out "Bye everybody"

It's been a while since I've posted anything at fanfiction.net, but I'm fairly sure that their rules require that anything posted be the author's own work. They do not want to become a repository for archives of "stories I found on the internet", and the authors who post there are not going to appreciate the "spamming" of a massive collection of old fanfic over the course of just a few hours. This is essentially what anyone who copy-pastes any of the TGS stories would be doing, on both counts.

Aside from that... I think "a single afternoon" grossly underestimates the time it would take to import the entirely of TGS to fanfiction.net's method of uploading.

At any rate, I have my own account at fanfiction.net. I do not want any TGS stories that I worked on posted to fanfiction.net (or anywhere else) under someone else's name. The TGS archive has it's own website, and it's not difficult to find. I know that every fic I've ever posted that set in a spin-off ficverse has a link back to TGS right at the top.

So that's my preemptive "No." And I think every other author and artist who worked on TGS deserves to be asked for permission before anyone copies a single page to any other fanfic archive.

Patrick - [<-- Gathering T-shirt Clearance Sale]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka

GREG> *eyeroll* don't you want to see the story finished, or are you just in it for the money?
Necros2303 - [Necros dot Chris at gmail dot com]
This is Necros signing out "Bye everybody"

<<the more people who know about greg weisman's story being incomplete there are, the more likely it is that someone will want to finish it.>>

There's only one person who i want to see finish Greg Weisman's story, and that's Greg Weisman.

Greg Bishansky

Calling me names, well, you're definitely not getting my permission now.
Greg Bishansky

GREG> you're a stubborn ass, i know that most of the gargoyles fans know that tgs exists, i'm just saying that alot more people know about ffnet.

b'sides, does anyone know if greg weisman ever actually finished his plotline?

I'm just saying that it might be a good publicity stunt, get more people interested, alot of people lost interest when goliath chronicles was aired, maybe this will bring back more people, you do know that the more people get interested in this the more likely it is that someone will want to author the tgs episodes that haven' been done yet, the more people who know about greg weisman's story being incomplete there are, the more likely it is that someone will want to finish it.

and maybe even the more people who will be interested in buying the comics dvds and whatever

Necros2303 - [Necros dot Chris at gmail dot com]
This is Necros signing out "Bye everybody"

NECROS> TGS has their own site, people know it's there. Now, you can contact some other authors and see how they feel. But, that being said... I wrote and co-wrote several TGS stories, and I'm denying you permission to post any stories with my name on them on fanfiction.net.

Thank you.

Greg Bishansky

NECROS> Um... what? I said spread the word on the comics, not finish it ourselves. I am not interested in a fan continuation. I am interested in seeing the word spread so that people buy the graphic novels, so SLG has a better chance to renew the license.

I am interested in the real tale, as envisioned by its creator.

Greg Bishansky

REBEL> I'm not pressuring the original authors to finish them at all, i'm hoping that one of the many authors on ffnet will do it, there are many talented authors on that site, they just have to be exposed to th episodes to get plotbunnies running around in their heads.

Who knows, maybe this will be enough of a publicity stunt to revive Gargoyles completely, i doubt it but it is possible

Necros2303 - [Necros dot Chris at gmail dot com]
This is Necros signing out "Bye everybody"

GREG> Maybe, but that will take time, energy, and money, whereas given permission i would be able to post all of them in a single afternoon, and it would be completely free, the only person doing the work would be me, so i really don't see any problem doing it my way, whereas doing it your way would take years, would require the employment of multiple artists and the contracts with the comic book agencies.

I'm doing this to get the stories out there, i don't care about money, i just want to see the tale completed.

Necros2303 - [Necros dot Chris at gmail dot com]
This is Necros signing out "Bye everybody"

Personally I don't see anything wrong with putting the TGS stories up on Fanfiction.net, if the people who wrote those stories are okay with it. But I don't think they should necessarily be pressured to finish the TGS versions of various Gargoyles stories.

Perhaps this could even be an opportunity to promote the comic books and DVDs. I don't use Fanfiction.net, nor do I ever visit it, but would it be possible to post a story and then put some information at the end of it, perhaps with information about the comics and DVDs, and maybe some links?


NECROS> I think that time and energy would better be put into spreading the word on the comic books.
Greg Bishansky

Hey guys, does anyone think that Timedancer and Gargoyles from tgs are ever going to be finished.

if not, i have an idea

If i, with permission of course, post the episodes of tgs onto fanfiction.net then tgs will get a hell of a lot more publicity, who knows, maybe some of the authors will be interested in continuing that which was never completed.

All i would need is the permission of the various authors.

anyone who reads fanfiction knows that while there are alot of specialty sites that Fanfiction.net is the widest known and read of any of them, there are more members and fics on that site then on any other site in the world, at the very least it will get more people interested in the gargoyles fandom, at best some other authors will be interested in completeing that which is incomplete.

please, at least consider it.

Necros2303 - [Necros dot Chris at gmail dot com]
This is Necros signing out "Bye everybody"

*Sneaks in and "Borrows" Gore's Statue....for a little while* ^_^
Oh, to have money....


Photos of my Goliath statue from Bowen Designs:

Immediate thoughts: very detailed, very big.


I think that Duncan's desire to get rid of Gillecomgain went beyond Gillecomgain's mere rebelliousness.

Gruoch, whom Gillecomgain had just married, was Bodhe's daughter and Kenneth III's granddaughter. Duncan and Macbeth's grandfather, Maol Chalvim, had murdered Kenneth and usurped the Scottish throne. Thus Bodhe and Gruoch had a better claim to the throne (in terms of law) than did Maol Chalvim, Duncan, and Macbeth. Neither Maol Chalvim nor Duncan ever did away with Bodhe; presumably they recognized him as too cowardly to make a bid for the crown (and it says a lot about Duncan that he'd dismiss a potential threat for that reason, but didn't consider the possibility that someone else - such as Findlaech - might choose not to rebel against him for reasons of honor, loyalty, and integrity) - though we know from "Ask Greg" that Bodhe had a son who was murdered at Duncan's command, presumably to keep him from rebelling. But Gruoch's still a potential threat; whoever she marries could raise a rebellion on her behalf. Hence Duncan opposes Gruoch marrying Macbeth and gives her in marriage to Gillecomgain instead, who's on his side then. But once he and Gillecomgain break, Duncan sees Gillecomgain as not just stiff-necked, but a potential threat - now *he* could rebel, using his wife's claim to the throne as a justification. So he has to get rid of Gillecomgain at once (and naturally, sends Macbeth after him, presumably hoping that they'd kill each other and rid him of two rivals at once).

That so many of the gargoyle massacres in early Scotland stemmed from the rivalries over the Scottish throne supports Goliath's statement in "M.I.A." - "Human problems become gargoyle problems." There's more at work here than simple xenophobia.

I had a new thought today about the Goliath Chronicles episode "Ransom". Pat Doyle is able to breach the Eyrie Building's defenses and kidnap Alex, with apparently little trouble. We don't know anything about his resources, but we know that he was the challenger in the mayoral race, not the incumbent. If a mere politician is able to break into the castle like that, someone low down on the "villains' hierarchy", it raises a disturbing question: how easy would it be for somebody much higher up on it, such as Demona, Castaway, or Thailog, to do the same? But nobody in the episode considers that prospect.

With the Eyrie Building that vulnerable, small wonder that the new production team's initial plan was to have the gargoyles run away from New York. (If they'd aired that ending in "Angels in the Night" rather than the ending we got, I wonder if there'd have been an echo of "Enter Macbeth", with Elisa telling the clan "You're not safe here" and urging them to leave Manhattan for their own safety. Maybe not, but I still wonder about that.)

Todd Jensen

Greg B.> "And as for Duncan... no, he did not have a personal grudge against Demona or even gargoyles. He kept the mask as a bit of a psychological edge against his cousin, Macbeth."

But remember in "City of Stone" part three when Duncan and Macbeth stumbled on Demona's clan. Duncan was ready to smash the whole clan without a second thought, and when Macbeth objected Duncan looked at him like Mac had gone insane. Clearly the man harboured serious anti-gargoyle sentiment.


>>I'd say that Duncan's grudge against Demona wasn't completely unrelated to Gillecomgain's. Gillecomgain served Duncan, so Duncan's grudge against Demona may have been due to her part in Gillecomgain's death, although it was probably more to do with her truce with Macbeth.<<<
Duncan wanted Gillecomgain dead when Gillecomgain got a bit too uppity. Demona actually did Duncan a favor in killing the only witness who could and Duncan in murder and had threatened to do so.

That was why he told Macbeth that Gillecomgain murdered Findlaech.

Michael Ejercito - [mejercit at hotmail dot com]

PAUL> Constantine was a bit of a proto-Hunter. He was not the original Hunter. Check GargWiki, Greg commented on this there.

And as for Duncan... no, he did not have a personal grudge against Demona or even gargoyles. He kept the mask as a bit of a psychological edge against his cousin, Macbeth.

In fact, let me quote the show for you again.

"If Macbeth counts on the gargoyles' aid in the coming battle, he will find it a futile hope."

He didn't want to chance them coming to Macbeth's aid. Hell, Macbeth admitted earlier in the episode that he had a history of fighting side by side with Demona (something he overstated a bit).

I mean, alliances with gargoyles have taken down two kings that we know of. King Cullen, and later Constantine. That's why Constantine was trying to destroy every last gargoyle in Scotland... he knew how his father was defeated.

Greg Bishansky

->Michael: "It should be remembered that Duncan, to whom Demona did no wrong, took up the Hunter's mask. He started another feud with Demona for reasons totally unrelated to the original Hunter's grievance."

I assume that by "the original Hunter" you mean Gillecomgain, since the only evidence otherwise comes from spoilers in Clan Building, Volume 2. I'd say that Duncan's grudge against Demona wasn't completely unrelated to Gillecomgain's. Gillecomgain served Duncan, so Duncan's grudge against Demona may have been due to her part in Gillecomgain's death, although it was probably more to do with her truce with Macbeth.

Then again, did Duncan know anything about the battle between Macbeth and Gillecomgain beyond the fact that Macbeth lived and Gillecomgain died?

Of course, [SPOILER] the original Hunter was Constantine, not Gillecomgain... but even so, Duncan and Constantine seemed to have identical motives to hunt gargoyles, if not to hunt Demona in particular. [/SPOILER]

Paul - [nampahcfluap at yahoo dot com]

Michael E> The point is that the TGC episodes were never completely clear about whether or not Jon Canmore and Jon Castaway were the same person, so the rather ambiguous line could be taken as either a reference to the longtime feud between the Canmores and the gargoyle race, specifically Demona, or something more general, depending on who you believe the TGC Castaway to be.
Demonskrye - [<---"Snow White" Part Two at The Ink and Pixel Club]

A big box arrived today with the text "Gargoyles" logo stamped across it. It's the Goliath statue from Bowen designs. It tells me I have the 67th (out of 750) Goliath statue. I haven't opened it yet as I had it shipped to work. When I get home I'll unbox it and take some pictures.

The closest that the Goliath Chronicles got to saying that Castaway was Jon Canmore was a line in "Angels in the Night" where Goliath confronts Castaway over his plans to endanger the train and all the people on board, asking him if he wants to kill them all just for the sake of an "ancient hatred". It's not clear whether the "ancient hatred" is the Canmores' feud with the gargoyles or just humans hating gargoyles (probably the latter).<<<
It was caused by an ancient hatred.

It should be remembered that Duncan, to whom Demona did no wrong, took up the Hunter's mask. He started another feud with Demona for reasons totally unrelated to the original Hunter's grievance.

Michael Ejercito - [mejercit at hotmail dot com]

Just wanted to say happy birthday, Greg!
Timberwolf - [cirdon at gmail dot com]

Thanks, everyone, for all the birthday wishes!
Greg Weisman

ANTIYONDER - Greg originally intended the would-be kidnapper to be Anansi, Coyote, and Raven working together, then decided to make it just Raven(though planning to do a different story involving all three trickstes, plus Puck - while commenting that multiple trickster stories are difficult to write).

The closest that the Goliath Chronicles got to saying that Castaway was Jon Canmore was a line in "Angels in the Night" where Goliath confronts Castaway over his plans to endanger the train and all the people on board, asking him if he wants to kill them all just for the sake of an "ancient hatred". It's not clear whether the "ancient hatred" is the Canmores' feud with the gargoyles or just humans hating gargoyles (probably the latter).

Todd Jensen

Happy Belated Birthday, Greg!!!
Noel Leas - [nleas at hotmail dot com]

Happy belated un-birthday, Greg!

...Sorry, just wanted to say something different.


Happy birthday Greg, you magnificent...person.
Incisivis - [incisivis at hotmail dot com]
"No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even dragonflies and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream."--Shirley Jackson

Happy Birthday, Greg!!

Happy Birthday Greg, and Desert Coyote.

Guardian> No, but each episode of The Goliath Chronicles came from a story that Greg had. Ransom for instance came from a yet to be used story where:

[SPOILER] Alex is kidnapped by Coyote. [/SPOILER]

Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
Algernon's comment about Norman Osborn: One of the neat things about Dark Reign is that it gives Osborn the chance to expand his horizons beyond tormenting a twenty nine year old who still lives with his mom.

Blaise - many thanks.
Desert Coyote - [<- Buy my book, please?]
The Gargfic writer formerly known as Coyote the Bando

****Blaise flies into the Room, and drops a large cake on the table.****


And a belated HAPPY BIRTHDAY to Desert Coyote!

****Blaise pulls an invisible lever and flies out of the Room in reverse.****


Were the TGC writers actually going to try and pull off a Timedancer spinoff? I shudder to think.

And I always thought that, even in TGC, Canmore was Castaway?

Guardian - [Guardian105 at gmail dot com]

Speaking of both the Goliath Chronicles and the accessability debate, I wonder whether some of the decisions that the new production team made had something to do with accessability.

"Runaways", for example. We know that originally, that story was supposed to be the "Timedancer" one that we got in #10-#12 of "Clan-Building. [SPOILER] We also had comments about whether that story might have been too confusing for newcomers, with almost everybody whom Brooklyn meets in the past, apart from Demona, being the flashback characters from "City of Stone" and "Avalon" whom only hard-core fans would know about. [/SPOILER] Maybe that was one reason why the new production team changed it to have Brooklyn instead meeting entirely new characters (runaway children, Kenny, and Radar).

Maybe that was also why they didn't use the concept of Castaway being Jon Canmore (apart from a line in "Angels in the Night" that might or might not be an allusion to that) - the fear, again, that much of their audience might not have seen "Hunter's Moon".

Todd Jensen

Happy Birthday, Greg!
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"They talk of me going around and buying souls, like a fishwife come market day. Never stopping to ask themselves why. I need no souls. And how can anyone own a soul? No. They belong to themselves. They just hate to have to face up to it." -Lucifer

Happy Birthday, Greg
VickyUK - [vickyfanofwwe at aol dot com]

Happy birthday, Greg!
Patrick - [<-- Gathering T-shirt Clearance Sale]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka

Happy birthday, Greg!
D. Taina - [demona3 at hotmail dot com]
The story is told, though who can say if it be true... -Shari

Happy Birthday to Greg
You came from an Egg
You must be a Gargoyle
I'm just pulling your leg. ^_^

Sorry, couldn't resist, in a silly mood. Have a great one Greg!


Happy B-Day Mr. Weisman, may you have many many many many more! :)

Happy birthday, Mr. Weisman!
Harlan Phoenix - [harlanphoenix at live dot com]

That's right, I'd almost forgot Greg's birthday is the day after mine. Happy B-day, Greg.

I've just posted the first of five sample chapters from the book, to three blogs and Twitter. If you follow me there you already saw the feed (and it's not getting replayed, not after all the headaches I had trying to feed it!). Check it out on my blog at one of these three sites:

Thank you!

Desert Coyote - [<- Please buy my book!]
The Gargfic writer formerly known as Coyote the Bando

Happy Birthday Greg
Spacebabie - [spacebabie at hotmail dot com]

What Rebel said.

And Happy Birthday to ya big G. :)

I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!

I know sometimes comics put out "Preview" issues or maybe an issue labeled as #0. In that, it would have been funny if Greg did one of those and it showed Broadway waking up from stone sleep and telling the guys about this weird dream he had that he went to Hollywood. And Goliath and the others could talk about the weird dreams they had too totally refuting everything that happened in Season 3.
Anthony Tini

IF TGC was released on DVD, I would buy it for the simple fact that it IS a GARGOYLES product, and would help in brining up sales for Gargoyles merchandise. I would watch the eps, even though they no longer matter, in a sense.

As for starting with TGC, I don't think Greg could have told the stories he wanted to as several characters died in TGC. (the clones.)

I liked how he re-did "the Journey," and he retold the Gargoyles back story in a very good way... so in my opinion we didn't loose anything... he told the backstory without haveing to re-tell EVERYTHING and new readers could get a small sense of what's happened in the 65 episodes.

battle Beast - [SUPPORT SLG]
That is all I will say.

Happy Birthday Greg!

Happy birthday, Greg!

MATT - True, and I don't think I'd have found the new version as appealing. But it was just a thought I'd had after noting all the talk about it being too confusing for people who weren't intimately familiar with the series' backstory, and wondering whether beginning the comic book at a time when the situation would be far less complex might make it easier for newcomers.

Maybe there was no perfect solution. I just don't know, I'm afraid.

Todd Jensen

Happy Birthday, Greg!

Todd> You've mentioned a lot of alternative strategies (complete reboot, accept TGC as canon, restart series after significant time lapse, etc.), but I can't see any of them working any better than what we have now. How would accepting TGC as canon or just putting more time before restarting the series make it more accesible. If anything, it would make it less accesible to more people. And a complete reboot would turn away even some fans of the series as it would negate one of the biggest draws of the series, namely its continuity.

I think what we got with Clan-Building was by far the best solution by far to this problem. Whether it was accessible to new fans and old and whether it worked at all is a matter of personal opinion and interpretation of the numbers coming in.

I just can't believe you would think any of these other options would work any better or be satisfactory at all to fans who've waited a long time for a true third season.

Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" -Sevarius, 'Louse'

Happy Birthday, Greg!

After reading yesterday the discussion over whether it had been a good idea to start the comic book with "The Journey", combined with the general discussion over how accessible the comic book itself was, I wondered - reluctantly - whether perhaps the comic book should have treated "The Goliath Chronicles" as canonical after all, and opened at some unspecified period after "Angels in the Night" instead. Against all the disadvantages of treating the events in "The Goliath Chronicles" as canon, there might be one advantage; the overall situation afterwards would be simpler than in the aftermath of "Hunter's Moon"; the public have calmed down and recognized that the gargoyles are no threat, and the major antagonists are (in one way or another) out of the picture. So the comic book could start off with a simple situation - the gargoyles patrolling the city, protecting it from criminals, and then gradually start building up new menaces for them.

But it had too many drawbacks. It's difficult to think of what *could* threaten the gargoyles seriously now that they've got the city on their side, instead of just a handful of humans like Elisa. They'd be in danger of turning into merely another super-hero team. (A big advantage of "The Journey" was that all the public know for certain about the gargoyles is that they exist; they don't know what the gargs are, where they came from, or what they intend for the human population of Manhattan. That's one reason why they're so frightened of them. In the aftermath of "Angels in the Night", the public would probably have learned so much about the gargoyles that the mystery would be gone.)

Todd Jensen

Totally didn't realize the date during the Top 10, but now that I did, I also wanted to say: Happy Birthday Greg!!

My online birthday wish feels JUST A BIT more personal (compared to previous years visiting the CR), since I finally got the chance to meet you in person at the Gathering this year. As a life-long fan of your work, may you have many, many more birthdays to come :D

"The suspense is terrible . . . I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka

Guardian - [Guardian105 at gmail dot com]

KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.

Vinnie - [tpeano29 at hotmail dot com]

The One Known As Mochi - [shogi dot keima dot 08 at gmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>**)> Food...

battle Beast - [SUPPORT SLG]
That is all I will say.

"The suspense is terrible . . . I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka

Whoops, 4th
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]


The Spider-Man Crawl Space interview with Greg Weisman and Josh Keaton is out: http://www.spidermancrawlspace.com/wordpress/2009/09/26/podcast-80-spectacular-spider-man-interview-of-keaton-weisman/

Ape Entertainment has also announced a new comic imprint for younger readers called KiZoic. Mecha-Nation will be the premiering comic:

"The first official title to be released under the new imprint will be Mecha-Nation, a 3-issue mini-series from Spectacular Spider-Man producers Greg Weisman (Gargoyles) and Vic Cook (Hellboy: Blood and Iron), and Greg Guler (Phineas and Ferb) with interior artwork by talented newcomer Antonio Campo and covers by Greg Guler and Sean 'Cheeks' Galloway."

New art too: http://apecmx.com/?p=462

Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

Third! Happy birthday, Greg!
"What if this wasn't a hypothetical question?"

Michael Ejercito - [mejercit at hotmail dot com]