Comment Room Archive : Gargoyles : Station Eight

Antiyonder> Again, assuming that there will be additional TLA films. If the first one doesn't so well, there may not be a second and third.

Iron Clan Robot> My thinking was that it was part contingency plan and part using what was available. Steel Clan robots do have a nasty habit of blowing up (to the point where that was the feature of the Steel Clan action figure), so the Iron Clan robot may have been what Xanatos had on hand at the time. And even if he wasn't expecting any trouble with Oberon's Children (which he probably wasn't, since he would likely know where most of them are after the Gathering), it couldn't hurt to have an effective weapon that can also fight the foes he is expecting, just in case.
Demonskrye - [<---"GARGOYLES" at The Ink and Pixel Club]
posted @ Sun, Oct 25, 2009 7:48:52 pm EDT from 146.115.115.75

TODD> I believe that was the version written by Dean Devlin of "Independance Day" & "Godzilla" fame. Reading about that kinda makes me glad the project got cast into development hell.

http://avalon.gargoyles-fans.org/castle/movie.html
Algernon
posted @ Sun, Oct 25, 2009 7:01:59 pm EDT from 86.41.127.19

(from Tokyo) The ZGoliath Statue looks awesome!!! I cant wait to see more pics of it! are there4 some on the electric tiki website?
battlebeast
posted @ Sun, Oct 25, 2009 6:55:13 pm EDT from 218.47.29.144

I thought that the Iron Clan robot's presence was another case of "Xanatos never wastes anything".

I remember reading reports that at one point, the movie was to be about an entirely different set of gargoyles (or even just one gargoyle - but a new one). I wonder how well *that* would have gone down. We'll never know now, though. (One obvious problem with the "just one gargoyle" approach; how do you reconcile that with a title that says "Gargoyles", as in plural? There'd be real "truth in advertising" problems there.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Sun, Oct 25, 2009 6:51:04 pm EDT from 4.244.208.84

Demonskrye> As far as the Avatar movies go, each installment of The Last Airbender will be an adaptation of a different book. TLA 2 will be Earth and TLA 3 will be Fire.
Antiyonder
posted @ Sun, Oct 25, 2009 5:18:49 pm EDT from 66.189.178.45

Anonymouse> Well certainly film has its own conventions of narrative structure (as do books, plays, short films, etc.) and because there are certain convention about how long a film should be, they can be somewhat rigid as well. But I still think film allows for more flexibility than the TV format (not that everyone uses it or that more flexibility is always a good thing.) And my point is that the structure of film and TV are different, even if the running time ends up being roughly the same. If you take something that was written as a five episode story arc for television and make it into a movie without changing anything, it is still going to feel like a five-part story, even if you don't have the commercials or the episode credits to make it 100% clear where the breaks are.
Demonskrye - [<---"GARGOYLES" at The Ink and Pixel Club]
posted @ Sun, Oct 25, 2009 4:38:46 pm EDT from 146.115.115.75

Sorry for the double post.

Demonskyre: "The story structure for a movie, which doesn't have these forced regular act breaks for commercials, is going to be different."
One can generally set the clock after Hollywood movies. Introduction, puttering along, crisis developing, hitting rock bottom, resolution, Happy End. If it's a 90 minutes movie, you get the Introduction in the first 15 minutes, hitting rock bottom thirty to forty minutes before the end, resolution at fifteen minutes before the end, Happy End five minutes before the end. And the break spots for advertisements are there, which one feels whenever they aren't hit, but forced in where they don't belong.
Anonymouse
posted @ Sun, Oct 25, 2009 4:09:15 pm EDT from 89.246.207.245

Algernon: "Look at how the awful Michael Bay Transformers movie paved the way for the kick-ass Transformers: Animated series."
Actually, Animated was intended to be a time filler between the movies and a back up in case of the movies flopping. So, yes, look how the successful crappy movies spelt the abrupt end of the kick-ass series.
The movie series is likely going to get another installment, Animated is over.
Anonymouse
posted @ Sun, Oct 25, 2009 4:02:43 pm EDT from 89.246.207.245

MATT> I remember Greg once put forward the theory that the stone was actually a Child of Oberon trapped in rock form. Obviously it turned out to be something else entirely, but mabey David favoured the former hypothosis.
Algernon
posted @ Sun, Oct 25, 2009 3:43:32 pm EDT from 86.41.102.67

Iron Clan Robot> It's a good question why Xanatos included an Iron Clan Robot in the team he sent to London. I mean, the answer could be as simple as that is what was available at the time or that an Iron Clan Robot is bigger and tougher than a normal Steel Clan robot... I dunno. Maybe he was expecting magical interference or something.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" -Sevarius, 'Louse'
posted @ Sun, Oct 25, 2009 2:47:32 pm EDT from 70.230.161.52

BROOK> I wouldn't necessarily want to see a word for word translation of "Awakenings" becaause hey, I already got it on DVD. But I think you'd need to keep the broad strokes, medieval Scotland, clan betrayed, thousand year curse, Xanatos' scheams, meeting Elisa ect.

For example, I wouldn't mind if they jimmyed the character's ages a bit in order to make Angela one of the original Wyvern survivors. Or if they substituted the Pack for Xanatos' commandos, or saved Demona for a sequal. Another thought, make Demona the sole villain and don't reveal David's shady side 'til later in the series.

My only big problem with Greg's treatment is the absence of Hudson, brooklyn, Broadway and Bronx. Doing a Garg movie without these guys is like doing a Fantastic Four movie without Ben Grimm or Johnny storm, the clan would feel anemic.
Algernon
posted @ Sun, Oct 25, 2009 2:12:52 pm EDT from 86.40.245.13

Patrick> Well, I think it depends on exactly what you mean by "near verbatim." Greg and Michael Reaves are clearly smart guys and they weren't just writing the treatment for their own amusement. Even though the story still covers a lot of the same territory as "Awakening," there are still some pretty big changes in there. So even these two guys, who were directly involved with the original TV series, evidently though that it wouldn't work to just take the TV version of "Awakening" and massage it a little and put it on the big screen. Do Hollywood egos play into the idea that you can't just retell the same story in a film version of the property? Sure. (Though so far as I know, The Last Airbender covers essentially the same material as the first season of Avatar.) But to say that it's the only reason is oversimplifying. TV and movies do have different needs and one can't always easily be transformed into the other medium. TV has a pretty strict format, so even when you're doing a multi-episode story, you still have to deliver two small cliffhangers and one big cliffhanger or mini-resolution for every episode. The story structure for a movie, which doesn't have these forced regular act breaks for commercials, is going to be different. You also don't have the luxury of knowing that you'll have the opportunity to explore the characters and concept further in a movie the way you do with a series. Sequels are almost never a sure thing. You could take a TV series multiparter, put it in theaters, and call it a movie, but I doubt many people would fail to recognize it for what it is. That's why I think the treatment came out the way it did. I may not agree with every choice, but I'm don't have either the experience or the information Weisman and Reaves did when they wrote it, and for the most part, I can see why they made the changes they did.
Demonskrye - [<---"GARGOYLES" at The Ink and Pixel Club]
posted @ Sun, Oct 25, 2009 2:02:25 pm EDT from 146.115.115.75

> film treatment: I think it all boils down as too how good the future scripts will be.

I mean, sure, there's always a TRANSFORMERS round the corner, but if it's not Bay oriented, most Action films/Blockbusters these days have to bee fairly original and/or equip great skills in characterisations (see Batman, District 9).

Macbeth in charge of the castle is something I don't see, for example. It would introduce Macbeth for future use, but as Demonskrye has pointed out, it would also alienate on a small scale. I'd LOVE to have the second film deal on his backstory and illustrate his battle with Demona (not necessarily City of Stone - keep in mind how The Dark Knight managed to introduce two villains without telling their backstory - all we need to know about Dent and the Joker is shown through their actions and other peoples reactions towards them).

What I love is the idea of Othello in the clan. But I think it should be the "team", with Demona being re-introduced as somebody who actually lived through all those years.

What I would be interested in is - since last time we talked about a live action film, a lot of people voiced that it would only be Awakening 2.0. In this treatment, it's fairly close to that plot. But what if, keeping the same characters and situations, the plot would be altered?
Brook
I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!
posted @ Sun, Oct 25, 2009 1:25:37 pm EDT from 84.191.255.178

PATRICK> Personaly, I'm expecting the 90s nostalgia wave to hit sometime in the early years of the next decade.

Thing to keep in mind about Greg's treatment is that it was written back in ninty four or there abouts, when the series was just starting out. I imagine if Greg was asked to write up a new treatment today, we'd get something very differnt.

At anyrate even a crappy movie could be good for Gargoyles if it does well at the box office. Look at how the awful Michael Bay Transformers movie paved the way for the kick-ass Transformers: Animated series.
Algernon
posted @ Sun, Oct 25, 2009 12:48:17 pm EDT from 86.40.5.89

The only thing saying a "Gargoyles" film "can't" be a (near) verbatim translation of "Awakenings" is the hypocritical attitude in Hollywood today that any adaptation of comics to the big screen has to be "original". Meanwhile, Hollywood shows how "original" it truly is by remaking "V" and "Nightmare on Elm Street", putting out "Saw 6" and, planning for "Toy Story 3."

We've had movie interpretations of "Superman" and "Batman" that have kept mostly faithful to the original origin story, so there's no technical or logistical reason why "Gargoyles" could not be handled the same way. It's all about the ego of writers, directors, and producers who want to put their own spin on things (need I repost the link to Kevin Smith's rant about Superman?) and the executives perception of what will "sell".

Maybe "Gargoyles" as a potential movie is something that will stand more of a shot of getting made and getting made decently when the nostalgia wave that's currently making the 80s hot again sweeps into the early 90s.
Patrick - [<-- Gathering T-shirt Clearance Sale]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Sun, Oct 25, 2009 12:07:15 pm EDT from 173.88.135.205

I'd certainly watch a movie made from that treatment, but as it stands (and it's tough to judge a movie from just the treatment), I do have some concerns. The big one is whether some of the concepts that would be explored further in the sequel would feel odd or pointless to audiences unfamiliar with the original story, particularly Macbeth. If the character who the castle belongs to is either Princess Katharine of Prince Malcolm, someone most audience members have probably never heard of before, I doubt they would be concerned that the character doesn't get more screen time. But Macbeth is a little more problematic because a) the Shakespeare play means that Macbeth is a name far more people are familiar with than most other ancient Scottish kings and b) more people are much more familiar with Shakespeare's fictional account of Macbeth's life than the real history. So it's possible that you could end up with a bunch of viewers and critics wondering why the film decided to use the name "Macbeth" for what they see as a pretty minor character who bears little or no resemblance to the Macbeth they're familiar with.

I'm not a purist, and I understand that the film couldn't just be a verbatim translation of "Awakening." The only other thing that bums me out is that the gargoyles would lose the characteristic of not initially having names. And again, it's only a treatment that obviously went through a few rewrites and could well have gone though a few more if the movie had actually gone into production. That's just my take on what we know.
Demonskrye - [<---"GARGOYLES" at The Ink and Pixel Club]
posted @ Sun, Oct 25, 2009 9:53:21 am EDT from 146.115.115.75

Hey guys, I was just re-reading the Stone of Destiny arc and I started wondering. Does anyone have any theories why Xanatos sent an Iron Clan robot along with Coyote and Coldsteel, was he expecting interference from any of the Third Race?
Algernon
posted @ Sun, Oct 25, 2009 9:36:43 am EDT from 86.40.240.55

Wow... Fifteen years...

Memories... *sniff*
The One Known As Mochi - [shogi dot keima dot 08 at gmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>T.T)> Yeah... I put a virus on my computer... Not fun... Reformatted hard drive and everything is good again...
posted @ Sat, Oct 24, 2009 10:58:11 pm EDT from 72.199.85.169

*Reads outline*

Honestly? I'd watch that.
Harlan Phoenix
posted @ Sat, Oct 24, 2009 10:16:32 pm EDT from 76.2.89.49

O_O That Goliath statue is looking SOO flippin schweet!! OmG I can't wait until it becomes available, it's looking absolutely amazing so far! I love the base, w/ the letters and the skyscraper top as well :D
VoLpE - [sailorx78 at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Sat, Oct 24, 2009 9:01:40 pm EDT from 65.14.83.34

I remember it being raised once that Macbeth's presence in the medieval Scotland part of the story, at Castle Wyvern, could risk upstaging the gargoyles. Macbeth isn't familiar just to "Gargoyles" fans, thanks to Shakespeare, so audiences not familiar with the series would recognize him at once and be wondering about the presence of one of Shakespeare's tragic leads. (To make it clearer what I mean: imagine a movie about a race of mythical creatures originally from Viking Age Denmark awakened in modern-day Manhattan - and they came from a castle ruled over by Prince Hamlet.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Sat, Oct 24, 2009 6:49:16 pm EDT from 4.244.212.32

Uh, guys, was this discussed???????

http://s8.org/gargoyles/blog/?p=84
Brook
I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!
posted @ Sat, Oct 24, 2009 3:15:13 pm EDT from 84.191.238.45

That statue is looking pretty sweet. Thank you Greg for the picture and Gore for the heads-up about the pictures.
Demonskrye - [<---"GARGOYLES" at The Ink and Pixel Club]
posted @ Sat, Oct 24, 2009 1:55:17 pm EDT from 146.115.115.75

I wouldn't care for a TMNT movie that retold the origin with only Raphael and Leonardo, added in Mona Lisa, and left Splinter, Michelangelo, and Donatello nowhere to be found. So yeah... I think you can infer from that my feelings on an only Goliath / Lex / Othello version of "Gargoyles."
Patrick - [<-- Gathering T-shirt Clearance Sale]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Sat, Oct 24, 2009 1:53:48 pm EDT from 173.88.135.205

Just popping in to say Happy Anniversary! :D

Yeah, FIFTEEN years ago, Gargoyles first aired on the Disney Afternoon Block.

And despite the show ending in 1996 (or 1997's if you count "TGC"), the fans have kept it alive with various fansites like Station 8 and TGS, as well as the thirteen Gatherings.

And the continued interest has been certainly been fruitful, we're currently enjoying recent merchandise such as the two DVDs, the two T-Shirts, and two sculptures, one by Randy Bowen and the other from Electric Tiki (which, as Greg pointed out is coming out next year).

But perhaps the most significant release has been the three SLG Trade Paperbacks featuring NEW CANON.

And all this means is that from 2004 into (at least) next year, there's been new Gargoyles merchandise to buy, which is pretty awesome.

Recently there's been discussion of a hypothetical Gargoyles movie, something I can't really add much to with everything else that's already been said. As Greg Weisman has previously mentioned, it's only a matter of time before they run out of 80's cartoons and 90's nostalgia will be the next big thing. So though it feels like the series is once more up in the air at the moment, I'm not too worried.

Oh, and of course, all the great people I've got to meet (online and this year, IN person d: ) thanks to this show. All things considered, it's really been great to be around here.
Phoenician
"And so it begins, 'Gargoyles' Chapter two. Or is it three? I've lost count." -- Brooklyn
posted @ Sat, Oct 24, 2009 1:52:32 pm EDT from 157.242.204.232

Well, if only one member of the Trio could be included in the movie, I can see why Lex would be chosen. Lex's natural abilities with technology make him vital. The other members of the Trio are important too, but I can see how Goliath might be able to manage without them.
Rebel
posted @ Sat, Oct 24, 2009 12:30:48 pm EDT from 69.134.195.157

Great question: what do you guys think of that outline??

I'm not too fond of it. I think it's a great idea to have Othello in the first film, but I'd actually introduce him as Coldstone.

Macbeth... not too sure about that change. It would simplify a sequel, but it would also take from another backstoy to illustrate, City of Stone-esque. Or another new backstory for the character.

What about Cyberbiotics? The Steel Clan? Brooklyn/Bronx/Hudson/Broadway missing?
Brook
I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!
posted @ Sat, Oct 24, 2009 11:44:22 am EDT from 84.191.238.45

BECKYBUG> Actually Touchstone were working on a live-action movie way back in the mid-ninties but they never got a script they liked so the project ground to a halt. In fact, Greg himself along with Michael Reeves, even took a crack at developing the story for it which you can see here...

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?rid=110
Algernon
posted @ Sat, Oct 24, 2009 8:06:20 am EDT from 86.41.101.236

From what we can see so far (no close-up, but still some very good shots), that Electric Tiki statue looks fantastic. Unless the paint job goes horribly wrong (doubtful), it'll be a must-purchase for me. Aside from a cool little Serenity ornament/figure (the ship from Firefly--and it was relatively cheap at about $25 to $30-something from what I remember), I've never bought a statue. No action figures for a few years now either, they're expensive and just end up gathering dust (I think the last one I bought was "Frank the Bunny" from Donnie Darko, for the novelty factor and because it's a genuinely creepy figure, although even that I've considered selling once in a while). Was collecting the Buffy action figures for the first couple series of 'em, but...they're kinda boring after a while. Costly and boring. I bought a Hulk figure I still really like from Shopper's Drug Mart once that was on sale for $5 (came out to tie in with Ang Lee's Hulk film), that's about the only action figure purchase from my young adulthood that I don't regret.

Speaking of Gargoyles merchandise, does anyone know if the Hot Topic and 80s Tees t-shirts are still available ? I checked both sites, but couldn't find them with searches or in the obvious places. Unless they're buried in the "Clearance" sections or mis-categorized and unsearchable. At least I THINK that second, recent t-shirt was put out by 80s Tees, could be wrong. Have there been any more official Gargoyles t-shirts or shirts made since those two ? I like some of the fan efforts that've come out (one fan here did a great job on the Phoenix Gate shirts and such, nice subtle way to do the Garg fan-love thing), but I wouldn't mind supporting the show finally outside of the DVDs and the comics.
Kris - [plekopleko at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Sat, Oct 24, 2009 6:17:03 am EDT from 174.112.16.137

But anyways i think it would be cool if they made a "Gargoyles movie. what do you guys think?
Beckybug
beckybug
posted @ Fri, Oct 23, 2009 8:05:04 pm EDT from 71.7.116.47

Thank you Matt. i thought i remembered it right. cuz when i was younger i go up to my parents ansd ask them if i could watch the "Grgoyles movie"lol.
Beckybug
beckybug
posted @ Fri, Oct 23, 2009 8:01:42 pm EDT from 71.7.116.47

ALGERNON - Oops. Unfortunately, I'd already cleared that question, before Greg explained things at "Ask Greg". Sorry.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Fri, Oct 23, 2009 6:48:26 pm EDT from 4.244.214.98

GOREBASH> That is very cool, I already like the Electric Tiki sculpt a lot better then the Bowen version.
Algernon
posted @ Fri, Oct 23, 2009 4:44:33 pm EDT from 86.41.122.175

Greg just posted some pics of the prototype Goliath sculpt for Electric Tiki at http://www.flickr.com/photos/29246775@N04/sets/72157622647604288/.

btw, I fixed the AG code to show a proper e with an accent instead of the garbage it use to show.
Gorebash
posted @ Fri, Oct 23, 2009 4:40:14 pm EDT from 207.206.236.230

TODD> Hey man, yesterday I submitted a Question to Ask Greg about [SPOILER] Mistress Quickly and Bardolph [/SPOILER] but he already answered it over on the GargWiki, so feel free to delete my question when it comes up.
Algernon
posted @ Fri, Oct 23, 2009 2:27:33 pm EDT from 86.40.6.97

Matt - Keep in mind that "Gargoyles: The Movie" wasn't smply just a snhortened edit of the 5 part "awakenings" episodes. It actually has some sligtly different dialogue and has a completely different sound mix-especially sound effects. If I recall-the movie was used to test market the show.
Wingless
posted @ Fri, Oct 23, 2009 9:37:37 am EDT from 99.245.254.123

Incisivis> Thank you!

Fox> At some point, another site (not this one or Electric Tiki) had the full concept art image for the Goliath statue, but I can't recall where. I suspect it won't be out until sometime next year at the earliest. From the artwork and the other Disney stuff Electric Tiki has been doing, I'm pretty sure it will be more of a direct translation of Goliath from the show, rather than a reinterpretation like the Bowen statue.
Demonskrye - [<---"GARGOYLES" at The Ink and Pixel Club]
posted @ Fri, Oct 23, 2009 9:16:48 am EDT from 146.115.115.75

Lets nip this argument in the bud, shall we.

Disney did release "Gargoyles - The Movie".

Said 'film' is a re-edited version of the series pilot episodes.

So you are both right and whether you consider this to be a movie or not depends on how you define a movie. It's subjective. Lets move on, shall we?
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" -Sevarius, 'Louse'
posted @ Fri, Oct 23, 2009 7:35:18 am EDT from 70.230.190.239

Tell that to Disney (the ultimate authority on Gargoyles) who marketed the that version as movie, in more than one language to boot. There changes to the scenes and differences in the sound.
Anonymouse
posted @ Fri, Oct 23, 2009 3:56:10 am EDT from 89.246.221.132

Anonymouse> No, that was five episodes, edited down and together. It was not a movie.
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Fri, Oct 23, 2009 3:52:23 am EDT from 74.88.215.133

Greg> The Awakening recut which out on VHS was titled "Gargoyles - The Movie", so one could make the case, that there is a movie.
Anonymouse
posted @ Fri, Oct 23, 2009 3:39:28 am EDT from 89.246.221.132

Demonskyre - Thanks for your reply! I went on statue forum and saw a 2004 reference to the creation of a Goliath Statue by Electric Tiki but that was it. Are there any other updates than that thread? I'm a complete Gargoyles Memorabilia collector and just wanna know more. Thanks a ton!
FOX - [FoxSCruz at Gmail dot com]
- Fox
posted @ Fri, Oct 23, 2009 12:05:17 am EDT from 67.180.160.170

Beckybug> What do you mean "another"? Disney never made a "Gargoyles" movie.
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Thu, Oct 22, 2009 11:02:23 pm EDT from 74.88.215.133

This is my opinion, i think they should make another Gargoyles movie.
Beckybug - [beckybug1991 at aol dot com]
beckybug
posted @ Thu, Oct 22, 2009 11:00:42 pm EDT from 71.7.116.47

Hey guys, I just signed onto Youtube and saw an ad for the "Fourth Kind", a movie about aliens, I think, and I just thought the title was pretty cool cuz of how the races are divided in the Gargoyles Universe:

1) Gargoyles
2) Humans
3) Oberon's Children

So the 4th are aliens/Space Spawn? Or the New Olympians? Anyway, just being dorky and pointing that out ^^;
VoLpE - [sailorx78 at hotmail dot com]
"It's addicting! Did you know that there's P0RN on that thing?! My tail's sore!" ~ Lex (talking about the internet)
posted @ Thu, Oct 22, 2009 9:26:14 pm EDT from 65.14.83.34

Just coming in fashionably late to say that Demonskyre, you did a brilliant review of "The Edge". So many layers to that episode....
Incisivis - [incisivis at hotmail dot com]
"No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even dragonflies and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream."--Shirley Jackson
posted @ Thu, Oct 22, 2009 8:52:58 pm EDT from 96.52.134.1

[SPOILER] The only obstacle to the "Duval is Gawain" theory I can think of is that Gawain clearly died in the Arthurian cycle, though Ed offered a way of getting around that. (And all the accounts of Macbeth's story before "Gargoyles" portray him as definitely being slain in battle against Canmore, with no traditions of secret survival.)

But it's certainly an intriguing theory. [/SPOILER]
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, Oct 22, 2009 6:39:15 pm EDT from 4.244.215.98

Greg B> [SPOILER] That's an intriguing theory indeed, I guess it all depends whether that old Arthurian Survivors List from way back still stands. In fact, I believe that question has already been submitted to Ask Greg.

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=11978

We'll just have to wait and see [/SPOILER]
Algernon
posted @ Thu, Oct 22, 2009 1:26:13 pm EDT from 86.40.6.190

TODD and ALGERNON> [SPOILER] Ed had a fascinating theory about Duval's identity that he shared with me once.

Think about it. He's separate from Percival so the canon-in-training bets are off. He's one of the two people Peredur loves most. That's Peredur son of Ragnal. He uses the Scottish milady. He has a green sash (particularly visible in his first panel). A chip on his shoulder demeanor. Can hold a grudge. Bickering about rank. Loyal to Peredur.

A bit of a bastard.

Who's Greg's choice for the bastard of Arthurian lore?

Gawain! [/SPOILER]
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Thu, Oct 22, 2009 1:02:42 pm EDT from 74.88.215.133

Fox> Pretty much any Gargoyles merchandise selling well could help to show Disney that there is still market for the show and related items. It certainly can't hurt, though no one should be buying anything they can't afford or don't really want just to support the cause. Personally, I'm waiting to see how the Electric Tiki Goliath statue comes out.
Demonskrye - [<---"GARGOYLES" at The Ink and Pixel Club]
posted @ Thu, Oct 22, 2009 9:01:08 am EDT from 146.115.115.75

TODD> [SPOILER] Lord knows he wouldn't be the first son to have a troubled relationship with his parents. [/SPOILER]

In other news I've just finished up a Gargwiki article on [SPOILER] Falstaff's Gang [/SPOILER], so if anyone feels like citiqueing it then please be merciless, it's the only way I'll learn.
Algernon
posted @ Thu, Oct 22, 2009 8:24:53 am EDT from 86.41.102.77

[SPOILER] Since reading "Clan-Building Volume Two", I've wondered about Duval's cybernetic attachments. Evidently he must have suffered heavy injuries of some sort in the past that required those implants, though we don't yet know what they were. Greg Weisman said that Duval had to pay a price for his sins (presumably the unscrupulous actions of the Illuminati which he's heavily involved in), though that was back when he saw Duval and Percival as the same person; maybe the Grail refused to restore Duval's lost eye and arm, requiring him to resort to those cybernetic replacements. It was probably a relatively recent event, of course, in light of how high-tech they look (unless he's made use of the appropriate period replacements over the centuries).

I still think that if Duval is indeed Peredur and Blanchefleur's son (whether biological or adopted), he clearly doesn't have a healthy mother-son relationship. [/SPOILER]
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, Oct 22, 2009 7:54:31 am EDT from 4.244.215.135

REBEL> [SPOILER] Yeah, the fact that Duval doesn't look anything like either Peredur or Blanchefleur is probably the biggest snag in my theory. Still I've known pleanty of people who look nothing like their parents and as you say he could be adopted. [/SPOILER]
Algernon
posted @ Thu, Oct 22, 2009 7:42:25 am EDT from 86.41.120.13

*Embarrassed* I totally missed that. Thanks a bunch! Looks 110% Worth it. :-)
FOX - [FoxSCruz at Gmail dot com]
- Fox
posted @ Thu, Oct 22, 2009 12:44:27 am EDT from 67.180.160.170

Fox-Gorebash did(the guy who runs this site. Check the blog section of this site for info on his statue.
Wingless
posted @ Thu, Oct 22, 2009 12:35:09 am EDT from 99.245.254.123

So has anyone here purchased and actually received the new Goliath (Randy Bowen) statue? I am in the midst of paying off my credit card so I can buy it, I was just wondering if you guys had any pointers/warnings about where to get it... also, will buying this statue get disney's attention about the Gargoyles' Popularity? Maybe take it somewhere? I sure hope so... I want at LEAST another two SLG Clan Building Volumes. It's just getting good! Thanks guys.
FOX - [FoxSCruz at Gmail dot com]
- Fox
posted @ Wed, Oct 21, 2009 11:58:43 pm EDT from 67.180.160.170

[SPOILER] I could believe that Duval is Peredur and Blanchefleur's adopted son, but I doubt he's their biological son. They're both fair-skinned and blonde-headed (with blonde eyebrows), whereas he has darker skin and probably dark hair (as indicated by his dark eyebrows). [/SPOILER]
Rebel
posted @ Wed, Oct 21, 2009 11:37:58 pm EDT from 69.134.195.157

Sorry for the double post, but:

ALGERNON - [SPOILER] That is an intriguing speculation about Duval. I had already considered the possibility of Peredur and Blanchefleur having a son, since Roger Lancelyn Green (one of Greg's chief Arthurian sources) gives them one, Loherangrin or Lohengrin the Swan Knight. (As I've mentioned before, one of the Illuminati's art treasures in "Bad Guys" is a knight's shield with a swan depicted upon it; I've wondered about its past and who might have borne it once.) But I hadn't considered the possibility that he and Duval could be the same. (Lohengrin wasn't on Greg's list of Arthurian survivors, but maybe Greg doesn't view him as fully Arthurian. He *is* a borderline figure.) Though if he is their son, he really should be more respectful towards his mother. [/SPOILER]
Todd Jensen
posted @ Wed, Oct 21, 2009 7:03:13 pm EDT from 4.244.208.123

Another aspect of the gargoyles' 10th century origins that I touched on in my article was a couple of Hudson's lines in the early episodes, his remark about how "Maybe we shouldn't believe everything we see on the television" at the end of "The Thrill of the Hunt" and "Movies, television, video games. These days it's hard to tell what's real from what's not" in "Deadly Force". I commented that in another context, these lines could have sounded like a too-obvious statement of the moral of the story, but here they work, because they express Hudson's trying to make sense of the modern world.

(I think that the production team did an especially good job of having Hudson be not too keen on the modern world - apart from comfortable recliners and television, of course - and still keeping him sympathetic. The scene that sums it up for me is when Goliath invites Hudson to accompany him and Elisa on their tour of the city in "Awakening Part Three"; Hudson looks down at all the cars moving about on the streets below, listening to the noises that they're making, then says that he thinks the new world is too big, too bright, too loud for him. It gives the sense of someone transplanted to an entirely new environment, who fears that he's too old and too accustomed to how things used to be to adjust to it. We got an echo of that in "A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time" as well, where Hudson fears that it's too late for him to learn how to read.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Wed, Oct 21, 2009 6:49:08 pm EDT from 4.244.208.123

Demonskyre - I'm not sure the Elisa/Matt thing doesn't fit your thematic template nicely. Seems to me that's Matt's message. That it's okay to need back-up. That having a partner actually helps give Elisa back her edge. I think... Maybe...
L.T. Williams
posted @ Wed, Oct 21, 2009 2:41:36 pm EDT from 71.93.81.240

Finally got my copies of Clan Building Vol 2 and Bad Guys today, they are indeed fantastic additions to the Gargoyles mythos. I can finally read the archives here with no fear of spoilers. :)

Speaking of which, am I the only one here who suspects [SPOILER] that Duval is Peredur and Blanchefleur's son? I'm basing this thoery on Peredur refering to them as "the two people I love most in this world". It would also fit in a meta sense, as Duval was original meant as merely an alias of Percival/Peredur. [/SPOILER]
Algernon
posted @ Wed, Oct 21, 2009 10:53:30 am EDT from 86.41.100.227

Todd> The conversations about the show in the comment room have certainly influenced my thinking about the series and individual episodes. I did end up linking the first mention of Gargoyles to the main page of this site, in part to express my gratitude to the community here for expanding my understanding of the series.

I think 10th century thinking is also a big part of why Goliath is so insistent that Xanatos is no longer a threat after "Awakening." In the world Goliath knows, a military victory would make him the castle's rightful owner and Xanatos would have to defeat Goliath in order to win it back. The idea that Xanatos could lose a battle to him and still retain ownership of the castle, even feel comfortable returning to it with the gargoyles still there, is probably foreign to Goliath.

Aldrius> I enjoyed reading your article too. I'm not familiar with Starcraft aside from knowing generally what it is, but you did a good job of summarizing the various storylines, so I was able to follow along without too much trouble. I don't know if you noticed, but Greg just answered your question and I think his expanded definition strengthens your argument for Kerrigan as an archetypical bastard: someone searching for a father and for her place in the world, claiming some aspects of her heritage and the teachings of her father figures while rejecting others.

Matt> Thank you kindly. I corrected the two typos. Someday, someone will invent a spellchecker that can detect when I type the wrong word and not a misspelled one.

I forgot to mention it earlier, but I've actually been thinking for a while now about letting guest writers contribute to The Ink and Pixel Club. So if any of you guys have a burning desire to write an animation related essay - Gargoyles-centric or not - feel free to submit. My e-mail address for the website is inkandpixelclub(at)gmail(dot)com, so all correspondence should be sent there. I do reserve the right to decide what goes on my site and what doesn't, so if you aren't sure about whether an idea you have is something I'd want to publish, drop me an e-mail with a short summary of what you're thinking and I'll let you know if it sounds like something i can use.
Demonskrye - [<---"GARGOYLES" at The Ink and Pixel Club]
posted @ Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:25:57 am EDT from 146.115.115.75

Demonskrye makes (as I said last evening) an excellent point about Xanatos (which worked to "Gargoyles"'s advantage). If the antagonist's main goal is to either take over/destroy the world or kill the protagonist, he can't succeed without bringing the series to a premature end. Having the antagonist fail all the time, however, risks making him seem inept. "Gargoyles" solved that problem with Xanatos by giving him a different set of goals (for example, in "The Edge", his desire is to capture and control the gargoyles rather than to kill them - but his even deeper goal is to prove that he hasn't lost his edge by being able to hold his own in single combat against Goliath, and he achieves that).

I decided to examine the other major antagonists from "Gargoyles" in this light. Thailog definitely qualifies, since while he's far more ready to try killing the clan than Xanatos is, his real goal is to build up his wealth and power (and doing so by taking it, rather than just having it given to him). He shows this in the Double Date story in particular, where his real purpose wasn't to kill Goliath but to get some of his blood (and that of the other gargoyles) for Sevarius to make use of - with the bonus of having Brentwood now as a willing follower. The Illuminati have similar goals as well, though directed at steering the world in the direction that they want it to go in ([SPOILER] presumably to make things ready for Arthur's intended return in 2198, though those plans ran into a hitch when he was awakened ahead of schedule [/SPOILER]); this is why I don't think that Hacker was telling the truth when he told Castaway that the Illuminati want the gargoyles eradicated.

Demona, Castaway, and the Pack fall more into the conventional category, on the other hand. Demona's goal is to wipe out the human race (and the Manhattan clan, especially Goliath); she can never achieve that goal, of course. Fortunately, the series solved that problem by delving into why Demona has that goal, making her into one of the most intriguing characters of the series. Castaway's goal of slaughtering every last gargoyle on the planet also can't be achieved - but he obviously has his own promising characterization to explore (especially now that his siblings know about his new identity). The Pack can never be allowed to kill the gargoyles, either - though they're more supporting antagonists.

But I certainly think it was a good move to give Xanatos the kind of goals that he had in the series (and to do the same for Thailog and the Illuminati, as well).
Todd Jensen
posted @ Wed, Oct 21, 2009 9:01:26 am EDT from 4.244.210.88

Demonskrye> Great job on the article. It really was a fun read even for someone who has seen the episode a thousand times. In fact, I had never really thought about Elisa losing her edge in the episode til you pointed it out. Very interesting synopsis.

My one complaint is one dear to me for obvious reasons: In one instance you wrote "matt" when you meant "mat" and in another instance you wrote "mat" when you meant "Matt". Just sayin', lol.

Looking forward to you reviewing other episodes in this way. Kudos!
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" -Sevarius, 'Louse'
posted @ Wed, Oct 21, 2009 12:10:11 am EDT from 70.230.155.242

Wow, great article, Demonskrye. I really enjoyed it, and it actually helped me organize a lot of my thoughts about my own series that I'm writing. Very interesting read.

On the subject of articles, I wrote and submitted a StarCraft article about one of the characters to a StarCraft site a few months ago, as part of a contest (in which I won first place incidentally). It's not all that relevant to Gargoyles, but I mention the bastard archetype and a few other things through out it if anyone's interested: http://sclegacy.com/feature/9-contributor/500-kerrigan-an-analysis-of-the-queen-of-starcraft

I recap a lot of the games' plot, so foreknowledge is not necessary either.
Aldrius
"I took that lesson to heart, Praetor. Now are you ready to die a second time?"
posted @ Wed, Oct 21, 2009 12:06:44 am EDT from 216.254.163.46

Whoops, full link: http://tv.ign.com/articles/103/1037040p1.html
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]
posted @ Tue, Oct 20, 2009 10:23:43 pm EDT from 216.250.163.157

Another great interview from IGN: http://is.gd/4tcRV
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]
posted @ Tue, Oct 20, 2009 10:23:21 pm EDT from 216.250.163.157

DEMONSKRYE - I enjoyed your article on "The Edge" as well, especially its discussion of Xanatos's characterization. (I agree with you that one of its big advantages was that Xanatos's goals weren't things that would automatically end the series, like killing the gargoyles - allowing him to win victories of his own, as he does in this episode.)

I've mentioned this before, but I wrote an article on "Gargoyles" (an overview) for an upcoming anthology on the Middle Ages as depicted on television. (I haven't heard back yet from the editors, unfortunately, on whether they accepted it or not; they approached me rather than the other way around, which may be a good sign.) In it, I focused on the series' medieval elements, such as the gargoyles trying to understand the modern world through medieval eyes (among the examples I cited was the scene in "Awakening" where Goliath asks Elisa why New York doesn't have city walls, as a medieval city or castle would - and understands when Elisa explains that the biggest threats come from within rather than from outside), the medieval flashbacks, and the use of Macbeth and King Arthur in the series. (Since this was for an anthology about the Middle Ages as depicted on television, I only briefly mentioned the comics, though I think that the Stone of Destiny and Timedancer stories from the second half of "Clan-Building" would have both suited a discussion of the Middle Ages as depicted in "Gargoyles" extremely well, aside from that.)

In the section on King Arthur, I included Macbeth's speech about King Arthur and Merlin from "A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time" in full, with the comment that the speech, among other things, revealed to the audience that although Macbeth's the antagonist in this episode (and is behaving in an unscrupulous fashion - not only stealing the Scrolls but also being ready to test the spells he thinks the Scrolls contain on Broadway), he has a nobler side beneath. Note what Macbeth focuses on in his description: Arthur's kingdom was one of "beauty and civilization", Arthur "ruled with justice and compassion". His dwelling on those words is a sign of the more heroic figure he once was - and is becoming again by the end of the series (cf. his standing up for the gargoyles in "The Journey" and his being their ally in the Stone of Destiny story, wanting to see the Stone returned to Scotland).
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Oct 20, 2009 7:13:50 pm EDT from 4.244.211.71

Rebel> You did? Well I wish you had told me. :) It took me a while to settle on "The Edge." I was seriously considering both "Re-Awakening" and "Enter Macbeth" for a while, but the former requires me to explain both Xanatos and Demona, and the latter is not very pretty animation wise. I think "Thrill of the Hunt" and "Deadly Force" were both possibilities too. In the end, I wanted something that had more of the clan in it rather than focusing strongly one one particular gargoyle.

L.T. Williams> Good point. I think at this point, Elisa learns to live with having Matt around rather than really seeing him a an asset. The last scene he's in indicates more of a continuing story arc about Matt trying to figure out what it is he saw than Elisa feeling like having a partner is a good thing (particularly since she's not even in the scene.) I'll admit that Elisa's storyline doesn't fit with the others 100%. But I couldn't shake the feeling during the first two acts that she was also feeling like she had lost something that enabled her to do what she had to day to day.

Everyone Else> Thank you for the kind words. I really appreciate them.
Demonskrye - [<---"GARGOYLES" at The Ink and Pixel Club]
posted @ Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:26:07 pm EDT from 146.115.115.75

L.T. Williams > He's useful in "Hunter's Moon." He manages to keep the authorities out of the cathedral long enough for the gargoyles to save the day and escape in Xanatos' chopper. He also tries to convince New Yorkers not to consider the gargoyles a threat in "Nightwatch", and in "Invitation Only", Hacker points out that Matt has been "running interference" for the gargoyles.
Rebel
posted @ Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:21:45 pm EDT from 69.134.195.157

D'skyre - Great article. I did wonder how Matt's insistence on being Elisa's partner especially at times when Elisa felt she didn't need one fit in with your overall analysis of the "edge" theme. Does gaining a partner in fact help give Elisa back her edge? Matt certainly creates complications, but is that all he creates? I'm trying to remember now if he's ever actually useful in some way or situation that he didn't create...?
L.T. Williams
posted @ Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:06:28 pm EDT from 71.93.81.240

DEMONSKRYE> I also really enjoyed the article. Thanks for sharing it.
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:41:48 pm EDT from 74.88.215.133

DEMONSKRYE> Nice job on the article, It's good to see folks spreading the word.
Algernon
posted @ Tue, Oct 20, 2009 2:19:42 pm EDT from 86.41.102.109

Demonskrye > Great article! I remember back when you mentioned that you were going to do an episode of Gargoyles, and that it was probably going to be a season 1 episode. I had a hunch then that "The Edge" might end up being the episode you would choose.
Rebel
posted @ Tue, Oct 20, 2009 1:29:10 pm EDT from 69.134.195.157

All right, it's done. Finally. The Gargoyles article is up. Read. Comment. Enjoy.

Also, something I found while grabbing screenshots. You want to see a weird image of Owen? This is a weird image of Owen:

http://tinyurl.com/weirdowen
Demonskrye - [<---"GARGOYLES" at The Ink and Pixel Club]
posted @ Tue, Oct 20, 2009 1:00:36 pm EDT from 146.115.115.75

Fox as Pocahontas (with raccoon Alex to boot) seems a bit of a stretch... and Xanatos is what? Zorro? Odd.

Titania> Keep in mind that Anastasia was trying to keep her identity at the time we can assume. Whether Titania can generate an electromagnetic pulse or not is kinda irrelevant when she was posing as Anastasia at the time and we know Anastasia can do nothing but tranform into Titania. If she was to transform though we know she could freeze people to be unable to move as she did to Goliath, Puck and Xanatos (in his iron suit nonetheless). She probably could've frozen Matrix in the same way had she wanted to, but I imagine it would've been a temporary solution.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" -Sevarius, 'Louse'
posted @ Tue, Oct 20, 2009 8:18:54 am EDT from 70.230.155.242

MICHAEL> I have seen the show. Who says Titania is capable of creating an electro magnetic pulse?
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:44:23 am EDT from 74.88.215.133

>>Who says she could have killed the Matrix with an electromagnetic pulse? She's not Magneto.<<<
No, Anastasia's true identity was revealed in "The Gathering, Part One".
Michael Ejercito - [mejercit at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Tue, Oct 20, 2009 12:52:31 am EDT from 96.229.102.62

I'd guess Saturn Girl as well, who appears to be white and red, so if I had to guess, the colors were probably changed for copyright reasons.
Anthony Tini
posted @ Mon, Oct 19, 2009 11:23:43 pm EDT from 70.15.81.119

*looks at mini comic* WOnder Angela & Broadway are supposed to be Cinderella & Prince Charming! Just a thought.
Wingless
posted @ Mon, Oct 19, 2009 10:46:06 pm EDT from 99.245.254.123

Okay. Owen just looks goddamn freaky on that last page. Has someone been spiking the punch?
Harvester of Eyes
"I swear to the gods I'm going to beat the crap out of both of you as soon as I get better..." -Starbuck ("Battlestar Galactica")
posted @ Mon, Oct 19, 2009 8:46:22 pm EDT from 70.177.182.14

Patrick> The planet symbol looks kind of like Saturn Girl's insignia, which would make sense since Joe Staton worked on Superboy and the Legion of Superheroes. But I don't know the character well enough to know if it's a parody of a costume she wore at some point.
Demonskrye - [<---"The Swan Princess" at The Ink and Pixel Club]
posted @ Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:10:55 pm EDT from 146.115.115.75

"To Serve Mankind" - It's a cookbook! A COOKBOOK!!!

Interesting mini-comic. Any idea who Elisa is dressed as? That looks like a superhero costume of some sort.
Patrick - [<-- Gathering T-shirt Clearance Sale]
"You're thinking about eating me right now, aren't you? AREN'T YOU?" - Dr. Phil, "Married to the Blob" (Simpson's Treehouse of Horror XVII)
posted @ Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:02:12 pm EDT from 173.88.135.205

As a matter of fact, I did...sort of:

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c234/Incisivis/goliath_TVguide-1.jpg is the scan I made of the article. It was in the lower third of the page.

I honestly forget if our local TV listings were called "TV Select" or "Select TV", based on the logo at the bottom of the page.
Incisivis - [incisivis at hotmail dot com]
"No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even dragonflies and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream."--Shirley Jackson
posted @ Mon, Oct 19, 2009 4:56:29 pm EDT from 96.52.134.1

Incisivis> Any chance you kept a copy of that article?
Guardian - [Guardian105 at gmail dot com]
posted @ Mon, Oct 19, 2009 2:47:07 pm EDT from 76.219.185.199

So this is where all the traffic came from. I THINK the comic strip is from the '96 Halloween issue (I'm pretty good with dates) -- I pulled it out of the magazine the week it ran and stuffed it away so it wouldn't get lost and destroyed. TV Guide ran original Halloween comics annually for a few years ("Gargoyles," "Simpsons," "Hey Arnold," etc.). Anyway, glad you guys discovered and enjoyed (most of) the art...
Vinnie Rattolle - [VinnieRattolle at gmail dot com]
posted @ Mon, Oct 19, 2009 2:20:47 pm EDT from 24.206.135.221

I have to think that either someone got Demona's model sheet mixed up with Angela's or Angela is dressed up as her mom dressed up as Snow White. Now that I think about it, the latter option seems kind of unlikely.

I googled Staton, the artist for the comic. Turns out he's been in comics for many years and done a lot of work for DC. He's still working and currently drawing DC's Scooby-Doo comics and an adult title called Femme Noir for - oddly enough - Ape Entertainment, the new home of MechNation. I'm guessing that the last two panels were either Staton's style no mixing with the human characters from the show or a bit of a rush job. The rest of the comic looks pretty good.

I have some potentially sort of exciting news: the Ink and Pixel Club article on Gargoyles is almost done! I was hoping to have it up today, but I got behind, so there's still some editing and scrrencap grabbing to be done. So now I'm shooting for tomorrow. I've decided to tackle TV series by covering just one episode at a time so I don't go crazy, which is a possibility with a series like Gargoyles where there's continuity and a lot going on and it's tempting to describe everything that's ever happened to a particular character. I'll leave it as a surprise which episode I picked. Please come by and check it out once it's up. The more hits I get on it, the more motivated I'll feel to discuss more episodes in the future.
Demonskrye - [<---"The Swan Princess" at The Ink and Pixel Club]
posted @ Mon, Oct 19, 2009 1:02:01 pm EDT from 146.115.115.75

That's a cute comic.

Reminds me of the days when I couldn't get the TV series as it was airing, and the non-canon comics were all I had to go on. Thank god THAT'S over, bui badly-made as it is, it makes me feel nostalgic for the days when <i>Gargoyles</i> was more visible in the public eye.

For what it's worth, I think that character is supposed to be Angela, because it would make a little more sense, and she has Angela's brow horns. And, yes, Demona's hair. Okay.

Oddly enough, our local TV Guide had a feature a few years ago where it would profile a cartoon character each Saturday, and the first one they listed was Goliath, in November of 2006.
Incisivis - [incisivis at hotmail dot com]
"No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even dragonflies and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream."--Shirley Jackson
posted @ Mon, Oct 19, 2009 12:44:19 pm EDT from 96.52.134.1

Landon -- I guess that's the TGC version of Halloween **shiver** Fun idea that as of 1996 this comic has enough of a continuity to know that the Manhattan Clan has been revealed to the world. Still, I'll take the Double Date story without a blink.

Though of course, I do enjoy seeing Demona as Snow White (maybe that was supposed to be Angela, but she has red hair, so I'm gonna say Demona) . . . that's the second Disney princess I've seen her compared to (I still giggle about that video shown at the Gathering XD )
Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible . . . I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Mon, Oct 19, 2009 12:17:46 pm EDT from 157.242.192.232

Nice find, Landon! I notice the script is by former Disney Adventures editors and current comics news blogger Heidi MacDonald. I wasn't aware of this comic previously and I'm kind of surprised that Disney was still doing this kind of promotion for the series that late in the game.

It took me a minute or two to figure out that Broadway is dressed as some kind of prince or musketeer rather than Pimp Daddy Broadway.
Demonskrye - [<---"The Swan Princess" at The Ink and Pixel Club]
posted @ Mon, Oct 19, 2009 11:13:46 am EDT from 146.115.115.75

Someone found and scanned in an old Gargoyles comic strip from an October 1996 issue of TV Guide: http://vinnierattolle.blogspot.com/2009/10/gargoyles-mini-comic.html Though the characters are off, the art is pretty good (except for the last 2 panels. Yikes). Was anyone aware this strip existed?
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]
posted @ Mon, Oct 19, 2009 11:04:02 am EDT from 128.101.32.234

2. As someone once said jokingly before, the notion of the Illuminati turning Goliath against E--n P-x by saying his name over and over until Goliath went out after the man in a murderous rage was believable - since look at what effect hearing his name over and over had on the audience!

Hahaha. Truth to be told... I think there really might be an E.P. somewhere, and one day, he might cross the path with some Gargoyles fans... I don't want to imagine what just might happen. ;)

As for the film, I think it's OK to indulge in fantasy about it, up to the day when a.) Disney realize that they might make some bucks with it or b.) a very talented director/writer with a good record offers it to the studio, and they go "Oh boy, we forgot about this one, but yeah, sure we'll let you do it."

So, for example, if, say, Richard Kelly grew up with the show and would hand a good script in, then it might be in the realm of reality that it would get made.

Until then, I think, we can all safely assume that nothing will happen on that matter. :(
Brook
I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!
posted @ Mon, Oct 19, 2009 8:35:57 am EDT from 84.191.215.10

A few weeks ago, someone brought up the idea of listing the occasions when the Goliath Chronicles did something right, amid the multitude of weaker moments. While, "To Serve Mankind" is generally considered one of the worst, I think that there are a couple of good things to be said about it:

1. In most of the episodes of the Goliath Chronicles, the gargoyles would make some progress on their public relations difficulties, and then in the next episode, almost everyone in the city would be hating them again - and hating them to the point of engaging in violent riots (not just the Quarrymen, but ordinary citizens) - without a word of explanation. "To Serve Mankind" did provide a rationale for restoring the public's fear and hatred of the gargoyles, through Goliath's attack on E--n P-x, thus convincing almost everyone that the gargoyles really were dangerous savage monsters and a threat to their safety.

2. As someone once said jokingly before, the notion of the Illuminati turning Goliath against E--n P-x by saying his name over and over until Goliath went out after the man in a murderous rage was believable - since look at what effect hearing his name over and over had on the audience!

As a side-note, I've mentioned here before that one of the reasons why I was disappointed with this episode is its depiction of the Illuminati as apparently just a bunch of greedy munitions manufacturers wanting to start (or re-ignite) a war just so that they could make a lot of money selling weapons to the different factions. But while I still think that the "To Serve Mankind" depiction of them was oversimplified (and, as I've mentioned before, the choice of a gargoyle for an assassin had its own problems), the scheme wasn't entirely out of character for them. We've seen that the Society has admitted a lot of corrupt people into its ranks (Xanatos, Thailog, Castaway, Mace Malone, [SPOILER] Falstaff [/SPOILER] - not to mention, though it isn't canon, Tombstone and Chameleon in the Gargoyles/Spectacular Spider-Man crossover), are supporting the Quarrymen, run the Hotel Cabal, have become organized crime's silent partner, and stole a national treasure ([SPOILER] even if the national treasure wasn't quite what they thought it was [/SPOILER]), so they might not draw the line at sowing discord if it helped them. And a lot of the Illuminati's projects must cost a lot of money to maintain (the Hotel Cabal, [SPOILER] or those robots guarding Eastcheap, which Falstaff describes as "expensive" [/SPOILER]), so the arms sales might be based less on greed than on financial necessity. Though it still doesn't remove a lot of the other faults in that episode.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Oct 19, 2009 7:42:02 am EDT from 4.244.212.86

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Comments for the week ending October 26, 2009

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