Comment Room Archive : Gargoyles : Station Eight

MATT - No, I'm more inclined to stay home in the evenings. (I watched "Eye of the Beholder" on my DVD, and read the Double Date story from the comics.) I've only gone out once to a big evening event in the Central West End - when "Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows" was published the year before last. Left Bank Books (the bookstore a few blocks from my apartment) was throwing a big party the evening before the book was to come out, and I reflected that since this would be the last Harry Potter book, this would be the last opportunity I'd ever have to attend such a party, so I went out to see some of it. (I went home well before midnight, though.) A fun event, too, with a lot of people in costume - one girl had an excellent costume as Luna Lovegood, except she was holding her copy of the Quibbler right-side up - and a Harry Potter trivia contest.

My apartment building used to have a "reverse trick-or-treating" event where someone (probably the resident manager) would leave small bags of candy outside everyone's doors, but we didn't have it this year or last year (maybe due to the downturn in the economy; also, a couple of months ago we got a new resident manager).
Todd Jensen
posted @ Sun, Nov 1, 2009 6:21:08 pm EST from 4.244.209.115

Hey all. Happy Belated Halloween!

Went to the neighborhood block party last night. A ton of people were there. Great costumes too. Reminded me strongly of "Eye of the Beholder".

Todd, did you go?
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" -Sevarius, 'Louse'
posted @ Sun, Nov 1, 2009 1:20:59 pm EST from 70.133.170.56

@ King Cobra: That was directed towards NOROI. ;)

PA was... well, it was OK. I'm a bit tired of Horrors films that rely too much on jump-scares, hence the ending really left me a bit clueless (the ending of PARANORMAL ACTIVITY was changed on Steven Spielbergs request - and yes, the original one was better).
I liked the atmosphere and some of the creepier moments though. Good film, just not up to the hype.

NOROI on the other hand... O_O
Probably the scariest film I saw in a long time.
Brook
I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!
posted @ Sun, Nov 1, 2009 11:32:42 am EST from 84.191.197.171

Brook> "PARANORMAL ACTIVITY (got free tickets for a preview of this)
NOROI (THIS is an absolute MUST SEE for everybody, esp Greg B and King Cobra - absolutely astonishing film, I reckon it's on youtube)"

Actually, I already saw it about last week or the week before, not sure which. Missed the first 20 minutes (traffic was hell) but I saw the last 60-80 minutes.

The ending made me jump, and here I'd started to think that I was desensitized to movie scares. :D
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Sat, Oct 31, 2009 9:15:06 pm EDT from 99.177.172.217

Happy Halloween! Currently watching South Park's "Hell on Earth 2006" . . . I just love the Three Stooges bit involving Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy & Jeffrey Dahmer, not to mention the frustration of Biggie Smalls XD
Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible . . . I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Sat, Oct 31, 2009 6:23:43 pm EDT from 157.242.205.0

This year, 'Suspiria'.
Ed
posted @ Sat, Oct 31, 2009 5:22:01 pm EDT from 213.187.38.226

Happy Halloween
Beckybug
beckybug
posted @ Sat, Oct 31, 2009 1:27:49 pm EDT from 71.7.116.47

REBEL> Totally agreed, it also brought us what is quite possibly the greatest Halloween song ever!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8focjiIDDrY
Algernon
posted @ Sat, Oct 31, 2009 11:06:46 am EDT from 86.41.110.5

My latest Ink and Pixel Club article pretty much counts as my list, whether or not I get around to watching any or all of them tonight.
Demonskrye - [<---Halloween at The Ink and Pixel Club]
posted @ Sat, Oct 31, 2009 9:57:05 am EDT from 146.115.115.75

Personally I think it's good viewing for either holiday.
Rebel
posted @ Sat, Oct 31, 2009 9:56:28 am EDT from 69.134.195.157

But that movies more about Christmas than about Halloween.
Anonymouse
posted @ Sat, Oct 31, 2009 9:44:22 am EDT from 89.246.221.79

I'm frankly stunned that no one's mentioned "The Nightmare Before Christmas" yet!
Algernon
posted @ Sat, Oct 31, 2009 9:31:40 am EDT from 86.41.112.59

Halloween Viewing List:

Sale signs for work that I have to sort (of which there is about 2000 or so)
The inside of my eyelids

Yes, I have to work an 11 hour shift at work tonight (usually I work 10 hours, but Daylight Savings Time has managed to kick me in the pants).

Good times.

But at least I get to go to work in my PJs (part of my costume) and meet a co-worker who works on my off days, who happens to also live on the same street as me.

Might catch a show on TV if there's anything good on before I need to be in bed.
Andrea - [SailorV77 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Sat, Oct 31, 2009 9:13:36 am EDT from 24.41.18.162

HALLOWEN LIST SO FAR:

PARANORMAL ACTIVITY (got free tickets for a preview of this)
NOROI (THIS is an absolute MUST SEE for everybody, esp Greg B and King Cobra - absolutely astonishing film, I reckon it's on youtube)

For today, I'll see what my girl comes up with, but I guess it might be DON'T LOOK NOW, AUDITION and probably the original RING.
Brook
I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!
posted @ Sat, Oct 31, 2009 8:36:56 am EDT from 84.191.177.13

Noel > A mini-gathering is feasible anywhere if there's some people willing to go there. You should first find out, though, how big of a group this person would be willing to take on a tour. I'm not clear on whether the place you mentioned is open to the public, or this was a private owner who happens to have an interesting house.
Patrick
"If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe." - Carl Sagan
posted @ Sat, Oct 31, 2009 7:39:42 am EDT from 173.88.135.205

Alien
Friday The 13th (1980)
Jurassic Park
Dawn Of The Dead remake
Nightmare On Elm Street
Final Destination 1-3
The Frighteners

There.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Sat, Oct 31, 2009 2:43:56 am EDT from 99.177.172.217

RE: spoiler tags: I was just a' playing it safe. :D

Halloween list, if I have the time:

Ghostbusters
Donnie Darko
(the Tim Burton movies I didn't take with me when I moved out)

Assorted cartoon episodes, both proper Halloween specials and not, from various series. Including:

"Eye of the Beholder"
"When Halloween was Forever"
"The Halloween Door"
"Halloween Spectacular of Spooky Doom"
"The Dweller in the Depths"
"Starscream's Ghost/Ghost in the Machine"
"Viva Los Muretos"
"Feral Scream parts 1 and 2"
"Dark Awakening"

Rrr...I can't think of anymore. But I'm sure there are more in my collection.
Incisivis - [incisivis at hotmail dot com]
"No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even dragonflies and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream."--Shirley Jackson
posted @ Sat, Oct 31, 2009 12:23:16 am EDT from 96.52.134.1

Aside from Charlie and The Chocolate Factory, I won't be watching much specifically on TV (unless the cable clears up). What I will watch:

1. Nostalgia Critic Halloween Special (With the killer Teddy Ruxpin doll), as well as the reviews on Casper and Alone In The Dark.
2. The Angry Video Game Nerd's Castlevania reviews
3. Detective Conan episode 345 "Head-to-Head Match With the Black Organization; Two Mysteries of the Night of the Full Moon"
Antiyonder
posted @ Fri, Oct 30, 2009 9:33:08 pm EDT from 96.239.198.131

This has NOTHING to do with Gargoyles but if you guys could help me out and vote for me, I would really appreciate it! If I win, I am putting the money towards future costumes and one of them is a gargoyle beast. You can vote today and tomorrow. You must be a member of Facebook to vote. http://apps.facebook.com/promotionshq/contests/6717/voteable_entries/1353027

Thanks :)
Siren
posted @ Fri, Oct 30, 2009 9:25:45 pm EDT from 72.188.167.24

Good topic. What are your Halloween viewing lists?

1. Eye of the Beholder (Gargoyles)
2. The Uncertainty Principle (Spectacular Spidey)
3. Alien
4. Ghostbusters
5. The Shining
6. Psycho

They're all going to be watched this weekend.
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Fri, Oct 30, 2009 8:36:35 pm EDT from 74.88.215.133

Todd: I think only the issues from the most recent Trades should be spoiler-tagged. I may have been August when they came out, but just looking at the a couple questions in the queue shows that people are still picking them up.

Not exactly sure when it'd be safe to talk about the latest material, but of course, its simple common courtesy and decency between fans, especially since the tags actually hide the text these days.

Spidey -- Seems like the folks who wrote that jumped the gun on that comment, to which I'd like to say thanks for the unnecessary panic . . . I mean, I saw that article posted in here well after the comment from Greg was brought up . . . so fortunately I wasn't given time to really worry. Nevertheless, a fan of the show is a fan of the show, and my eyes went wide open when I first noticed the article.

Halloween -- Having now owned the season one DVD, I do think I'll be adding "The Uncertainty Principle" (Halloween ep of Spidey) to my Halloween list of things to watch this weekend, which includes Gargoyles' "Eye of the Beholder." Hocus Pocus, Saw, and Young Frankenstein are all on the list, among others, to give an indication of the variety I currently enjoy on Halloween.

('Course, a marathon of Disney's old "So Weird" would be nice to see on the Disney Channel . . . shame they stopped doing that in like 2001 . . . )
Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible . . . I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Fri, Oct 30, 2009 8:24:01 pm EDT from 157.242.210.169

Does the [SPOILER] Malibu-Delilah relationship [/SPOILER] really need spoiler tags? It was introduced in Chapter Five of the comic book, which was released over two years ago.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Fri, Oct 30, 2009 8:02:59 pm EDT from 4.244.208.171

Algernon: [SPOILER] Education might not equal intelligence, but the two factors aren't exclusive.

The clones have the potential to be as smart and articulate as any other gargoyle, but what I'm saying is the narrative doesn't make it clear how much growth and education the clones have undergone since "The Reckoning", if it's enough to make Malibu now Delilah's equal at the time of "Bash".

And when it comes to measuring that question, how well the character presents themselves to the world is just as much a factor as their inner intelligence. [/SPOILER]
Incisivis - [incisivis at hotmail dot com]
"No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even dragonflies and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream."--Shirley Jackson
posted @ Fri, Oct 30, 2009 5:22:46 pm EDT from 96.52.134.1

INCISIVIS> [SPOILER] I don't really think there's so much an intellectual gap between Delilah and the other clones so much as an education gap. There's no reason to think Malibu is any less intelligent then Brooklyn. It's simply that Malibu has had only a few opportunities to expand himself beyond Thailog's programming.

I'd like to cite the Gargoyles/Spectacular Spider-Man crossover written by Greg for this year's gathering. While of course it's not actual cannon it does provide some examples of how Greg might write these characters in the future...

763. BRENTWOOD
Brentwood capture little robot. Use it to control other little robots. When bright light shine, robots take spear and crown. [/SPOILER]
Algernon
posted @ Fri, Oct 30, 2009 4:34:00 pm EDT from 86.41.103.100

TODD JENSEN - I think she named her dog after the legendary Iceni queen, rather than the Garg beast.
Noel Leas - [nleas at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Fri, Oct 30, 2009 3:58:10 pm EDT from 208.73.177.89

Sorry for double-posting, but one other question I had while reading through most of September's Comment Room--did Gargoyles have absolutely no presence at the D23 Expo ? I didn't see any mention in the September comments, so I assumed it was ignored.

Did anyone here go, is anyone a member of D23 ?

D23 = the Disney Official Fan Club/Community thing that they launched back in March. They were really pushing it/advertising it in the Disney DVD/blu-ray Movie Buyer's Club pamphlets and sites. The movie club itself, if not for the buying commitment required, might be a worthwhile thing for a bunch of Gargoyles fans to sign up for all at once, if only for the chance to fill out the survey cards and send them back with "More Gargoyles DVDs!" in the write-in space. Hey, if they were able to successfully put out other exclusive-to-the-club DVDs like the DuckTales: Treasure of the Lost Lamp movie and a few others titles, Season 2 Part 2 of Gargoyles might not be a bad idea either.
Kris - [plekopleko at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Fri, Oct 30, 2009 3:09:09 pm EDT from 174.112.16.137

VERY interesting to hear about SLG. Hopefully it will lead somewhere.

If I had the money, I'd be gunning for the Electric Tiki statue, but alas....

All right, here's a topic:

[SPOILER] what does everyone think of Malibu and Delilah becoming mates?

Now, for me, this time it is NOT about what the two characters look like.

My first reaction was surprise, largely because it's been made clear that Delilah is far more advanced than the clones of the Trio and Hudson, which makes it a little unsettling that she'd form a relationship with a clone who does not appear at first glance to be her intellectual equal.

The intellectual potential of the clones has been emphasized and will likely be followed through if the story continues, but at this point in time, the first impression I get is still of a large intellectual gap between them.

On the other hand, we don't get many lines from the clones in the comics, so they might already have tapped their intellectual potential despite their simple dialogue, but we also don't see enough to contradict the impression.

So what do you think? Is this a case of love transcending overt barriers, or are there no barriers at all anymore? [/SPOILER]
Incisivis - [incisivis at hotmail dot com]
"No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even dragonflies and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream."--Shirley Jackson
posted @ Fri, Oct 30, 2009 3:07:53 pm EDT from 96.52.134.1

30% to 50% off most Bowen statues at MidTown Comics. Got an e-mail about it yesterday. Unfortunately the Goliath statue only got tagged with the 30% off discount, but that's still $192.50 US compared to the regular price of $275. For anyone who was interested in getting one or giving one as a gift.

http://www.midtowncomics.com/Neshop/SearchResult.asp?WhereFrom=SeriesSearchResult&chkshowthum=1&txtTitle=Bowen&utm_source=Midtown+Comics+Newsletter&utm_campaign=876f26c13e-50%25_off_ALL_Bowen_statues_+busts_Lantern+_Ring&utm_medium=email#

Scroll down to JUST after the middle of the page for the Gargoyles statue.

I know we have spoiler tags now, but no link tags ?
Kris - [plekopleko at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Fri, Oct 30, 2009 2:36:21 pm EDT from 174.112.16.137

Battle Beast> I live in LA. Best way to get from Point A to Point B would be either to drive yourself (rent a car) or hire a service. When I made my way from the Valley to Disneyland a few weeks back I didn't notice any MTA buses along the freeways, so I'm not sure MTA has any operations in that area. Of course, I was more focused on getting to D-Land on time and in one piece than looking for any MTA buses, so I may be mistaken.
Guardian - [Guardian105 at gmail dot com]
posted @ Fri, Oct 30, 2009 2:34:06 pm EDT from 76.219.185.199

My guess would be Avalon.
Rebel
posted @ Thu, Oct 29, 2009 10:48:01 pm EDT from 69.134.195.157

so say the gargoyles luft Manhatten. i wonder where they would go? any thoughts?
Beckybug
beckybug
posted @ Thu, Oct 29, 2009 10:33:09 pm EDT from 71.7.116.47

"Negotiating with Disnewy at this time" is a good thing. I won't get my hopes up, but some good news is better than none, even though we could be in for a let down. :/ Either way, I am happy a bit.

Greg B.> You live in LA, right? Would you by chance know of a cheap way to get from Anaheim (IE Disneyland) to the Staples Center in LA? Or ANYWAY to get there, for that matter? Other than Taxi?

Thanks!
battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Thu, Oct 29, 2009 9:19:11 pm EDT from 75.156.190.146

The current last response to the Newsarama article says:

"Marvel Animation Age caught up with The Spectacular Spider-Man supervising producer/story editor Greg Weisman concerning the "done and over with" comment apparently made in regards to the current status of the The Spectacular Spider-Man animated series. The comment, made by Marvel Animation President Eric Rollman and Chris Yost and featured in a recent Marvel Animation-focused interview at Newsarama, resulted in a massive fan outcry for the series. Weisman had the following to say, as seen below.

"I don't know what to say," says Weisman. " Last I heard Disney XD was waiting to see how the series did in the November sweeps."

"If Eric [Rollman] and Chris [Yost] know for certain it's dead, it's news to me," he continues. "But they are insiders at Marvel, and I'm an insider at... well... nowhere, really."

He concludes, "I still hold out some hope that we'll make more The Spectacular Spider-Man episodes, but of course that decision is way out of my hands..."

When asked to elaborate, Marvel Animation President Eric Rollman told Marvel Animation Age that "no decisions have been made either way" regarding the fate of the series, adding that he appreciates the showing of support for The Spectacular Spider-Man. As of now, there appears to be no official confirmation on the status of The Spectacular Spider-Man, but stay tuned for further updates."

I don't know how the heck that line ended up in the article, but it could be that it's premature.
Demonskrye - [<---Halloween at The Ink and Pixel Club]
posted @ Thu, Oct 29, 2009 8:26:55 pm EDT from 146.115.115.75

GREG B> That'd be great, personaly I prefer trades to single issues. As for regular artists my vot would go to David Hutchinson for penciler with Robby on colours. I loved their work on [SPOILER] "Tyrants", I got that fantastic two-page spread of the Battle of Rathveramoen as my desktop wall paper. [/SPOILER]
Algernon
posted @ Thu, Oct 29, 2009 7:50:30 pm EDT from 86.40.250.66

NOEL - Did she name Boudicca after the gargoyle beast on Avalon, or after the Iceni queen?

At any rate, thanks for sharing that with us.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, Oct 29, 2009 7:19:53 pm EDT from 4.244.209.184

Dear Patrick and everybody,

I recently visited a magical place called Dane Castle in Strongstown, PA. The owner, Cathy Homer, took me on a little tour, and both the outside and the inside looked uncannily like a Scottish castle! She even has two imposing Great Danes, Doogie and Boudicca, as guard dogs.

Would it be feasible to have a mini-Gathering there, and take a tour of the place as a group? Please let me know what you think.

Thanks, and have a great, safe Halloween!

Noel Leas
Noel Leas - [nleas at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Thu, Oct 29, 2009 7:15:11 pm EDT from 208.73.177.89

Just got another email--he answered it during a segment of dead air when their internet connection faltered. He'll answer it again next week. Here's where you'll be able to listen live: http://www.blogtalkradio.com/slgradio
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]
posted @ Thu, Oct 29, 2009 6:56:25 pm EDT from 128.101.32.234

ALGERNON> If it goes through, it will probably be as trades. So, they might be able to get one artist to draw the whole thing.

Personally, I'm hoping they bring Robby Bevard back as colorist, since he works with a lot of talented pencilers, and I'm sure he can bring one in to draw this.
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Thu, Oct 29, 2009 6:41:09 pm EDT from 74.88.215.133

LANDON> That is very good new indeed. Of course, it's way to early too break out the champagne. After all companies negotiate all the time. But it does show that SLG is still interested in the property. Let's just hope if this does go through, they can find a more reliable regular artist.
Algernon
posted @ Thu, Oct 29, 2009 6:38:07 pm EDT from 86.40.250.66

Some good news to balance out the Spidey worries: I submitted a question to SLG's call-in webcast. Dan Vado didn't talk about it on the show today, but he did respond to my email:

Do you have any plans to negotiate another Gargoyles license with Disney? Has the Marvel-Disney deal or the recent trade sales affected that decision?

Thanks,
Landon
---
Thanks for the question. I may not be able to answer it 100% at this
point as we are negotiating with Disney on this subject right now.

Dan
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]
posted @ Thu, Oct 29, 2009 6:25:13 pm EDT from 128.101.32.234

Spidey News> It's worrying, but I don't think we should panic or point fingers just yet. All we have is an offhanded mention in an article that two people who may not have the final say on whether the series continues or not said the series was done, and it's not even a direct quote. That's not exactly good news, but it also seems a little too vague to be interpreted as much of anything yet. The last thing we heard from Greg was that Disney was going to look at the numbers when season two aired on XD and decide from there.

There could be any number of explanations for what came up in this article, but until will have an official announcement from either Greg or someone representing Disney or Marvel that isn't tucked away in an article large about other topics, I don't think we should assume the worst.
Demonskrye - [<---Halloween at The Ink and Pixel Club]
posted @ Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:50:51 pm EDT from 146.115.115.75

It's also been pointed out to me it could just be slapdash journalism meaning that they wouldn't be drawn on the show being "done and over" when it was put to them.
Ed
posted @ Thu, Oct 29, 2009 4:17:59 pm EDT from 213.187.38.226

(Trying new avatars! Wee!)

...Hm. Well son of a bitch.
Harlan Phoenix
posted @ Thu, Oct 29, 2009 3:39:17 pm EDT from 76.2.89.49

If they have any influence over the decision at all they're cowards for slipping it out as a side-note in a puff piece. If they don't have any influence, they're spreading malicious gossip. Either way, it's despicable behaviour and they should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.
Ed
posted @ Thu, Oct 29, 2009 3:30:03 pm EDT from 213.187.38.226

GREG B> "There are more egos in Hollywood than there are lines on a mirror in Studio 54."

All too True. Of course it's one thing to have an inflated ego when you're Orson Welles, quite another when you're Dolph Lundgren.

Honestly I'm not ready to panic just yet, Disney XD are the ones with the final say on this. Disney want's to make money and TSSM already make them a buttload more then anything Yost has turned out. If R&Y think they can stand in the way of The Mouse then God have mercy on their souls.
Algernon
posted @ Thu, Oct 29, 2009 1:23:54 pm EDT from 86.41.127.159

ALGERNON> <<I suspect there's a certain element of professional jealousy at work here. Yost was Marvel's first choice to head up TSSM before Sony overuled them in favour of Greg. Personally, I'd wait 'til we here from Greg or get somekind of official announcement.>>

This is just my opinion, but I am pretty damn sure that this is EXACTLY what it is.

Yost is Marvel's Golden Boy. And why shouldn't he be, what with his "Fantastic Four" cartoon that was so awesome, that Cartoon Network pulled it off the air after four episodes aired. Or, his terrific "Iron Boy: Non-Alcoholic Adventures" series, which doesn't even perform all that well.

There are more egos in Hollywood than there are lines on a mirror in Studio 54.
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Thu, Oct 29, 2009 12:56:00 pm EDT from 74.88.215.133

LANDON> From what I gather, the decision whether or not to go forward with more TSSM is entirely up to Disney XD. Given that, I find it odd that Rollman and Yost would know something we don't. Keep in mind that recent episodes of TSSM have been doing extreamly well in the ratings, handily outpreforming WATXM.

I suspect there's a certain element of professional jealousy at work here. Yost was Marvel's first choice to head up TSSM before Sony overuled them in favour of Greg. Personally, I'd wait 'til we here from Greg or get somekind of official announcement.
Algernon
posted @ Thu, Oct 29, 2009 12:47:54 pm EDT from 86.40.244.214

Some folks at Marvel are saying the Spectacular Spider-Man is dead: http://www.newsarama.com/tv/091029-animated-shorts-marvel-animation.html

"While both Yost and Rollman will currently politely duck out regarding their company's recent acquisition by Disney (the deal hasn't been approved yet), admit that 'Spectacular Spider-Man' is done and over and not comment on the status of BET's 'Black Panther' series, they still see their future as incredibly rosy. As Rollman points out, the time is just perfect for superhero entertainment."

I'm skeptical but worried. TSS-M has been Sony's property up until recently without much (any?) input from Marvel Animation. Maybe these guys have an inside source at Disney but it's a weird thing to say offhandedly when it hasn't been their project and they don't pay the bills.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]
posted @ Thu, Oct 29, 2009 12:08:11 pm EDT from 128.101.32.234

Matt> Since we haven't seen Dracon in a long time, I'm not sure whether or not he is capable of causing trouble for Elisa that way. At the very least, I think Chavez and anyone else Elisa works with would realize that Dracon has a ton of incentive to make trouble for Elisa and that he wouldn't be beyond lying to do it. But if he were to go to or threaten to go to someone with less reason to doubt his word over Elisa's or create a situation where she's under watch to the point where she can't get away to visit the gargoyles without revealing that she is a friend of the clan, he could make life pretty rough for her. Of course, the more directly Dracon involved himself in this potential scheme, the more he would be risking the gargoyles retaliating. But with Manhattan in a panic over gargoyles right now, Dracon might not be so worried about a possible gargoyle attack, since many New Yorkers might actually help him out by keeping the gargoyles at bay.

I don't think Dracon could argue that his pasts arrests were invalidated by the gargoyles' involvement, though he might be able to claim that Goliath "framed" him at the end of "Deadly Force" if the police had no other evidence to link Dracon to the stolen weapons beyond the broken gun Goliath left with Dracon. But so far as we know, Dracon never confessed or turned himself in because of the gargoyles, so he can't say that he was ever forced to do so or the gargoyles would kill him.
Demonskrye - [<---Halloween at The Ink and Pixel Club]
posted @ Thu, Oct 29, 2009 11:54:51 am EDT from 146.115.115.75

MATT - Good question. Dracon was left at the end of "Turf" having apparently suffered a heavy loss of influence (for the first time in the series, he was still in prison for the crimes that he'd committed in the last episode he'd appeared in, rather than out on bail); I suspect that his power in the world of organized crime was broken, or at least heavily damaged. He might see his information about Elisa as a way of recovering some of his power, though I don't know just how he'd go about doing that.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, Oct 29, 2009 7:29:53 am EDT from 4.244.209.234

Re: Geocities - I don't know how the internet continue after the loss of so many garish mid 1990s web sites that haven't been updated in a decade.
Patrick
"If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe." - Carl Sagan
posted @ Thu, Oct 29, 2009 6:52:51 am EDT from 173.88.135.205

Anonymous> I already did. I have a domain name now. But thanks anyway!
battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Thu, Oct 29, 2009 12:41:48 am EDT from 75.156.190.146

Note to anyone that has links on their website(s): Geocities is now officially dead (at least the free pages), so you might want to clean up your links.
Anonymous
posted @ Thu, Oct 29, 2009 12:40:34 am EDT from 63.20.33.152

Random thought: In a post-Hunter's Moon world, do you suppose Dracon could make trouble for Elisa in that he knows that she holds sway with the gargoyles?
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" -Sevarius, 'Louse'
posted @ Wed, Oct 28, 2009 9:38:39 pm EDT from 70.230.146.8

Sorry for the double post, but - after thinking about the anachronisms (elements from the High Middle Ages in the Dark Ages), it makes the accurate depiction of the Vikings (the way that Hakon and his men dress is the way that Vikings actually did dress) all the more impressive.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Wed, Oct 28, 2009 7:09:35 pm EDT from 4.244.211.201

Castles in Britain (both England and Scotland) in the 10th and 11th centuries were generally made of wood; stone castles didn't start until after the Norman Conquest. I think that the stone castles in "Gargoyles" such as Castle Wyvern and Castle Moray are anachronistic. (Note also that the archers posted on Castle Wyvern's battlements in "Awakening Part One" are dressed more like bowmen from around the time of, say, the Hundred Years' War - [SPOILER] and some of the soldiers fighting in the Battle of Ratherveramoen in the second half of "Clan-Building Volume Two" are dressed like medieval knights of the late 12th and early 13th century, complete with box-shaped helmets with slits in them [/SPOILER].)

For that matter, look at King Arthur's portrayal in the Gargoyles Universe, dressed (at least until he has time to pick up more modern attire by the time of the Stone of Destiny story) in medieval armor (though his hair-style looks more Dark Age Celtic); the two animated suits of armor guarding his resting place on Avalon are also clearly medieval rather than Dark Age. While from what we know of the real Arthur (if there was one - historians can't even agree on that) he lived at the tail end of Roman Britain; he and his warriors would have been more likely to dress the way that Macbeth and Duncan's soldiers did in the "City of Stone" flashbacks than in conventional knightly armor. (And, just for good measure, many of the elements of Arthur's story brought into "Gargoyles" - Merlin, the Sword in the Stone, the Lady of the Lake, and the Holy Grail - all entered the Arthurian legend at the same time or after he was transmuted from a wild Celtic warlord to a medieval king dressed in 12th to 15th century fashions.)

Note that Carbonek, at the time of Prince Fergus's visit to it around 500 A.D., is also already a medieval-style stone castle. (Though the castle of the Holy Grail might not follow the same architectural trends as the outside world.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Wed, Oct 28, 2009 6:44:26 pm EDT from 4.244.211.201

The Romans built stone fortifications along their northern frontier in Britain in the early 2nd century A.D. They never controlled most of the area that became known as Scotland. But since the technology to build in stone was around seven hundred years before Wyvern, the castle can hardly be considered an anachronism.
Patrick
posted @ Wed, Oct 28, 2009 5:34:45 pm EDT from 173.88.135.205

PAUL> I remember somebady asked Greg that very question a while back. Greg's answer implied that the Archmage may have helped Prince Malcom construct Wyvern.

Keep in mind, back in the mid 1990s we did not have robotic battle armour, advanced cloning techiques or super intelligent nanites. Whether in medieval Scotland or modern day Manhattan, the gargoyles universe seems to always be a technological step or two ahead of our own.
Algernon
posted @ Wed, Oct 28, 2009 2:11:02 pm EDT from 86.41.111.151

For more on the history of Edinburgh, St. Edwin, a Christian king, had a fortress built there. Whether only the keep was stone and the outer wall wood and earth, or the entire structure originally stone, is not known. The original fortress was built in the seventh century, and three centuries is plenty of time to upgrade the fortress to the castle seen in "Avalon Part One".
Michael Ejercito - [mejercit at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:45:56 am EDT from 96.229.102.62

>>On the subject of Gargoyles and the Roman Empire, were the castles of Wyvern, Moray, and Edinburgh built by the Romans? I was under the impression that no stone fortresses were built in England between the fall of the Roman Empire and the Norman Conquest (which happened in 1066, after Macbeth's alleged death), and if so, those three castles must be either Roman fortresses or anachronisms.<<<

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh

Edinburgh was the capital of Scotland was the seat of the Scottish Crown, so the Scots would have built a stone castle there. I do not know about Moray (it could be a brick fortress). As for Wyvern, the gargoyles assisted with the construction, as did the Archmage. The fact that the castle was to be the headquarters for the king's younger brother probably helped with the financing.
Michael Ejercito - [mejercit at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:42:39 am EDT from 96.229.102.62

Paul> I think it's possible that Goliath actually saw a Roman-built road, though I don't know how far from home he would have had to travel to see it.

Since Halloween is approaching, I think this is a good time to share a ghost story that this reminds me of. I heard it from my sister after she took a trip around the U.K.

A man was down in his basement one night and heard what he thought sounded like marching footsteps. The sound grew louder and louder. Then to the man's likely shock, he saw a ghostly army of Roman soldier, visible only from the knees up, come marching through his basement wall and out through the opposite wall.

Later excavation of the man's basement revealed that it was built on top of an old Roman road. It had been buried to the point where if the soldiers were in fact walking on the road, everything from their knees down would have been concealed beneath the floor of the man's basement. There were even historical reports of a Roman legion that had been traveling in that area and never been heard from again. So perhaps the ghosts that man saw were the ghosts of those unfortunate soldiers, still marching to a destination they will never reach.
Demonskrye - [<---Halloween at The Ink and Pixel Club]
posted @ Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:39:54 am EDT from 146.115.115.75

Greg's interview for Gangland: http://tv.ign.com/articles/103/1039771p1.html Bonus inappropriate comparison to Batman. Some things never change. ;)

The next new Spidey episode in November 4th.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]
posted @ Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:17:15 am EDT from 128.101.32.234

On the subject of Gargoyles and the Roman Empire, were the castles of Wyvern, Moray, and Edinburgh built by the Romans? I was under the impression that no stone fortresses were built in England between the fall of the Roman Empire and the Norman Conquest (which happened in 1066, after Macbeth's alleged death), and if so, those three castles must be either Roman fortresses or anachronisms.

And how did Goliath know about Roman roads? Did he read about them, or did he see them himself?
Paul - [nampahcfluap at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:15:29 am EDT from 74.205.192.14

I am back from Japan. Suffice to say, it was totally different experiance. To say the least. I am going to post a trip report on INTERCOT, when I can...

I am so jet lagged right now...

P.S. I bought the Electric Tiki CHIP AND DALE statue, and if it is any indication of the way the Gargoyles stue will look, I am tickled pink!
battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:06:07 am EDT from 75.156.190.146

Anonymouse> "While we are at Gargoyles and Square Enix. Keith David is the voice of Chaos (complete with wings and a tail) in Final Fantasy Dissidia."

I noticed, believe me. I wish I'd known that at The Gathering; I mentioned I'd be picking it up to James Arnold Taylor (Tidus) but not Keith. Is it wrong that when I saw and heard Chaos for the first time in Dissidia, I thought, "Geez, Thailog, why'd you let Sevarius get his gene-manipulating hooks into you again?" :p
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!
posted @ Tue, Oct 27, 2009 7:59:13 pm EDT from 174.101.249.151

Except I don't think that the Romans had that many night games in the arena - and unless they had access to a Roman version of those Mayan pendants from "The Green", they couldn't hold gargoyle combats in the day.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Oct 27, 2009 7:55:40 pm EDT from 4.244.213.10

MATT> Somehow I can't quite see the Empire going in for peace, love and brotherhood. The one guy who tried that on Rome's watch got nailed to a tree.

In fact I believe it was common practice to bring back exotic beasts from conquered lands and pit them against each other in the colosseum. Given that it wouldn't suprise me if a fair number of gargoyles met their end in the arena.
Algernon
posted @ Tue, Oct 27, 2009 7:53:06 pm EDT from 86.41.101.218

MATT> Somehow I can't quite see the Empire going in for peace, love and brotherhood. The one guy who tried that on Rome's watch got nailed to a tree.

In fact I believe it was common practice to bring back exotic beasts from conquered lands and pit them against each other in the colosseum. Given that it wouldn't suprise me if a fair number of gargoyles met their end in the arena.
Anonymous
posted @ Tue, Oct 27, 2009 7:52:21 pm EDT from 86.41.101.218

I wonder how many gargoyle clans were inside the boundaries of the Roman Empire at that time. Given the Humility Spell, perhaps a fair amount. Maybe Augustus had no issues with gargoyles, maybe he was even allied with a Roman Clan and his predeccesors are the ones who wiped out the gargoyle clans across Europe or something. Something of a Golden Age for gargoyle-human relations that fell apart with the Empire. Just a thought.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" -Sevarius, 'Louse'
posted @ Tue, Oct 27, 2009 7:40:56 pm EDT from 70.230.146.8

DEMONSKRYE - Yes, most of Rome's imperial expansion had been done by the time Augustus became Emperor.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Oct 27, 2009 7:32:44 pm EDT from 4.244.213.10

A Timedancing Brooklyn hopping Disney worlds periodically throughout a KH game would be badass.
Harlan Phoenix
posted @ Tue, Oct 27, 2009 6:05:03 pm EDT from 76.2.89.49

Yes, I was overjoyed to see Nightmare before Christmas. And it's really a shame when a short two hour bit in an otherwise unrelated game is better at capturing the atmosphere of the movie than the official sequel game (which I'm not even close to finishing yet - without extras, while I already finished two versions of KHII -mostly including extras - and am quite far in the other two).
Anonymouse
posted @ Tue, Oct 27, 2009 2:32:10 pm EDT from 89.246.177.183

Todd> Chalk that up to my ignorance of the details of Roman history. I had incorrectly assumed that since the Roman Empire's size contributed to its downfall, all of the emperors had expansionist policies.

Anonymouse> TRON had slipped my mind for some reason, but you're right; it was a pretty big surprise. NBX wasn't as much of a departure as the live action films that have shown up in the games, but it was the biggest surprise to me in the first game, albeit a pleasant one.
Demonskrye - [<---Halloween at The Ink and Pixel Club]
posted @ Tue, Oct 27, 2009 11:42:38 am EDT from 146.115.115.75

While we are at Gargoyles and Square Enix. Keith David is the voice of Chaos (complete with wings and a tail) in Final Fantasy Dissidia.

I found more Tron being in KHII more curious than NbC. NbC was already in part one and in CoM, and is animation. Although Tron features a lot of handdrawing, too.

Gargoyles might also be a bit too close to the Beauty and the Beast, that world featured traditional Gargoyles and , afair, a certain kind of enemy is called Gargoyles, too.
Anonymouse
posted @ Tue, Oct 27, 2009 9:28:35 am EDT from 88.130.160.230

DEMONSKRYE - Actually, Augustus thought that the Roman Empire had expanded as much as it could without being too cumbersome to govern, and advised his successors not to engage in further conquests (though they did conquer Britain a few emperors later). More likely the Roman Magus thought it would be simpler to have the spell apply to all gargoyles around the world (since any of them could be brought to Rome at some later time).
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Oct 27, 2009 8:33:11 am EDT from 4.244.213.201

Humility Spell> I guess I had always kind of thought that prior to the Humility Spell, gargoyles didn't bother with clothes at all. If the issue was just that gargoyles had to take off their clothes before dawn to avoid destroying them upon awakening, I would think it would be much easier to simply ensure that the gargoyles slept some place discreet rather than casting a spell to make their clothes turn to stone with them.

I wonder if part of the reason that the Humility Spell ended up being cast on all gargoyles the world over was that Augustus mistakenly believed that the Roman Empire would one day cover the whole world and he didn't want to have to deal with the headache of running into more nude gargoyles in the future.

Kingdom Hearts> The rumor of a possible Gargoyles level in Kingdom Hearts has been kicking around since before the second game came out and so far as I know, it is nothing more than a rumor. It's not that I've never been surprised by something that ended up in one of the games, but upon further reflection, all of the level choices made sense. The two biggest surprises for me were Nightmare Before Christmas and Pirates of the Caribbean, mainly because they're not hand drawn animation. But Nightmare is a cult classic (and hugely popular in Japan) and Pirates was phenomenally successful and had the benefit of also being based on a Disney theme park attraction, That and Chicken Little being a summon character, but his movie was pretty new when the game came out. Gargoyles is still just too obscure to be on anybody's radar. The closest Kingdom Hearts ever got to using a character from a Disney TV show was having Uncle Scrooge in his outfit from DuckTales.
Demonskrye - [<---Halloween at The Ink and Pixel Club]
posted @ Tue, Oct 27, 2009 8:15:31 am EDT from 146.115.115.75

Maybe the Roman Magus wrote an account of the humility spell and how he came to cast it in the Grimorum. (A bit like Xanatos's report that the Magus wrote an account of how he cursed the gargoyles - which might have been an invention of his, except that we do see the Magus writing something in the Grimorum in "Avalon Part One".)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Oct 27, 2009 6:56:49 am EDT from 4.244.212.246

Humility Spell> My thoughts are that the gargoyles that originally had the spell placed on them would've been quite shocked (assuming they were even wearing clothes at all). But I suspect that over time and over the generations it would've just been accepted as the norm. I always figured that most gargoyles probably didn't understand it.
But with the latest comics, we get a different impression. Not only is Brooklyn (and thus the Wyvern Clan) aware of the spell and what it does, he is aware of the title of the spell (the Humility Spell). This seems to indicate a that the spell and its history are common knowledge among gargoyles. Or maybe only some gargoyles. We must keep in mind that the Grimorum itself was kept at Wyvern for many years and the Wyvern Clan may have known more about the Humility Spell than most gargoyles due to that fact.
Hard to say, but its an interesting discussion and I'd love to hear what else you guys think about it all.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" -Sevarius, 'Louse'
posted @ Mon, Oct 26, 2009 11:21:33 pm EDT from 70.230.146.8

Algernon> I didn't even know they where planning another Kingdom Hearts game.

There are three titles considered "current" Kingdom Hearts games - Coded for cell phones, which focuses on the Disney leads along with a data-based Sora, 358/2 Days for the DS, which dealing with Roxas and the members of Organization XIII, and Birth by Sleep for the PSP, dealing with the Keyblade wielders from ten years prior to the first game. Only the PSP title is still unreleased (it's slated for January 10th in Japan).

As far as subsequent games (as in Kingdom Hearts 3), there's been no official word, but it is pretty much inevitable. The primary designer behind the series, Tetsuya Nomura, has stated that a future game will be connected to all three of these games, one which will be a more main-line tale than a side story. Basically, it's been strongly hinted that these games act much like Chain of Memories did previously; they're a spin-up to the next main title.

There is no Gargoyles world in 358/2 Days or Kingdom Hearts coded. As far as I know, there are no plans for it in Birth by Sleep. I know of no concept artwork released for any upcoming yet unannounced KH game. As such, whatever Fox saw, it was most likely fanart, as you said. However, it could be possible to misconstrue some of the unrelated-to-KH Epic Mickey art assets as a (very gothic) Gargoyles world. However, that game lacks the presence of Sora since it has nothing to do with the KH games; it's being developed by Warren Spector.
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!
posted @ Mon, Oct 26, 2009 10:40:21 pm EDT from 174.101.249.151

FOX> You sure that wasn't just fanart? I didn't even know they where planning another Kingdom Hearts game.
Algernon
posted @ Mon, Oct 26, 2009 9:54:52 pm EDT from 86.41.120.131

So, the new sculpt looks INCREDIBLE and I wanna pre-order now.

On a separate production note, am I the only one who's seen the drawings of a 'Gargoyles' level on a Kingdom Hearts game? It would be pretty fun and great eye candy for the fans. Sora was a gargoyle, goofy was a bronx character and donald was winged. (in the photo I saw) I can't find it anymore but I was definitely excited about it and have yet to find any news since.

Anyhow, if anyone has pre-order info about the Goliath statue let me know. Take Care guys!
FOX - [FoxSCruz at Gmail dot com]
- Fox
posted @ Mon, Oct 26, 2009 9:35:00 pm EDT from 67.180.160.170

The specific clan locations that we know of for gargoyles are the British Isles (England, Scotland, and, in Cuchulain's time - which was contemporary with Caesar Augustus - Ireland), Japan, China, Korea, and Guatemala (plus New Olympus, whose exact location we don't know). As I said before, all of those locations were outside the Roman Empire in Augustus's time, and only southern Britain ever made it into the Empire. (The Romans made a couple of attempts to conquer Scotland, but finally gave up and settled for building Hadrian's Wall to mark the frontier.) Greg hasn't said anything yet about gargoyles in the Mediterranean world, apart from an indication that the New Olympian clan was descended from them (and is now all that remains of those clans).

The Britons did trade with Rome in Caesar Augustus's time, exporting slaves and hunting dogs, among other things; maybe they occasionally sent a gargoyle (most likely of the "English" variety, though of course, England didn't exist yet then) to Rome as a curiosity.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Oct 26, 2009 8:32:39 pm EDT from 4.244.214.154

TODD- In my defence, I was roughly twelve when I first concocted the slime theory.

Anyway, I have a hard time believing that gargoyles where that rare in the Roman Empire, considering what a significant chunk of the planet the Empire covered at it's height. Course that doesn't mean first century Italy couldn't have been fairly.

I think all this would depend on how tolerant the Imperial powers where of gargoyles. If the conquering legions had a policy of eradicating cllans wherever the found them, the a gargoyle free empire makes more sense.
Algernon
posted @ Mon, Oct 26, 2009 7:55:29 pm EDT from 86.41.96.166

ALGERNON - Ewww. Thank goodness for Greg's explanation!
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Oct 26, 2009 7:40:02 pm EDT from 4.244.214.154

CHIP - Greg mentioned that a few gargoyles were brought before Augustus, but he didn't describe the circumstances.

During the reign of Tiberius (Caesar Augustus's successor), according to Plutarch, a group of sailors were reported to have heard a mysterious voice telling them that Pan had just died. This is close enough to the "2000 years ago" mark that I've wondered if that event could have been somehow linked to the New Olympians isolating themselves from the outside world.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Oct 26, 2009 7:39:17 pm EDT from 4.244.214.154

CHIP> My theory was basically that gargoyles are constantly secreating a slimey substance that turned to stone with them. Over the course of the night this slime would seep into their clothes and gat all over anythin the gargoyle regularly carried on their person. That's not Hudson's sword turning to stone, that's the thin layer of slime coating Hudson's sword.

Needless to say, Greg's explanation is a lot less icky.
Algernon
posted @ Mon, Oct 26, 2009 7:36:49 pm EDT from 86.41.96.166

Todd> I thought that there was a clan within Rome itself. I was under the impression that the Humility Spell was cast for their benifit mostly, though I could be wrong.
Chip - [Sir_Griff723 at yahoo dot com]
Loooong story...some of it even true--Brooklyn
posted @ Mon, Oct 26, 2009 7:33:47 pm EDT from 204.184.4.34

I wonder how many gargoyles there were in the Roman Empire by Caesar Augustus's time. Probably not very many from Greg's account, though there must have been a few for Augustus to find out about their "damaged clothing" situation.

With the possible exception of New Olympus (which seems to have cut off its contact with the outside world around Augustus's time, judging from the line about Elisa being the first human to visit New Olympus in 2000 years - the timing suggested a creativity demon to me, incidentally, but I'll save that for another post), all of the known gargoyle clan locations that would have dated back to Roman times were outside the Roman Empire during Augustus's reign (Britain was known to the Romans, Julius Caesar had even raided it a couple of times, but Augustus left it alone and his successors were the ones who annexed it, the Far East was largely a rumor, and the Romans wouldn't even have known about Mesoamerica where the ancestors of the Guatemalan clan lived).

PATRICK - When I was at the Art Show at the 2001 Gathering, I saw a picture of Goliath and his clan, drawn "South Park"-style, staring in horror out at the reader after the Wyvern Massacre, done as apparently a parody of the "They just killed Kenny" running gag - though, surprisingly for a parody, with an extremely unsettling and solemn tone. (At least, that was my impression of it.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Oct 26, 2009 7:29:09 pm EDT from 4.244.214.154

Or they could go to the happiest place on Earth... Tijuana!
Harvester of Eyes
"I swear to the gods I'm going to beat the crap out of both of you as soon as I get better..." -Starbuck ("Battlestar Galactica")
posted @ Mon, Oct 26, 2009 7:18:37 pm EDT from 70.177.182.14

"I'm starting to understand why the Goliath Chronicles' production team originally planned to have the gargoyles just give up and leave Manhattan, even though it would have been out of character for them."

Goliath: "That's it, everyone pack your bags. We're leaving Manhattan."

Elisa: "Where will you go?"

The Trio: "How about Los Angeles?"

Angela: "We could go to Avalon."

Hudson: "Or back to Scotland, aye."

Goliath: "No. (growls) We're going to a place where the plots make more sense. South Park, Colorado."
Patrick
"Tonight we dine in CLEVELAND!" - Leonidas, "United 300"
posted @ Mon, Oct 26, 2009 7:07:12 pm EDT from 173.88.135.205

Demonskrye> I suspect that gargoyles in Roman Provinces were probably informed by announcements and word of mouth, which is prolly how Brooklyn knew about it.
I would bet that the Loch Ness and London Clans also know the story behind the Humility spell. I would also bet that the Mayan, Korean, & Xanadu Clans have no clue why their clothes turn to stone, they just go with it. The New Olympian Clan prolly had ties to Rome and so they knew about the Humility Spell, and I suspect that Brooklyn informed the Ishimuran Clan in Fuedal Japan.

Algernon> What was your pre-Humility Spell Clothing theory?
Chip - [Sir_Griff723 at yahoo dot com]
Loooong story...some of it even true--Brooklyn
posted @ Mon, Oct 26, 2009 7:02:43 pm EDT from 204.184.4.34

Maybe Brooklyn informed the various clans during his Timedancing. Greg speculated once that Brooklyn might visit ancient Rome to see the Roman Magus casting the Humility Spell at some point in his adventures (presumably with some careful "camera angles" to show gargoyles awakening before the Humility Spell), and he might have the duty of spreading the word after that [SPOILER] especially since the Phoenix would be guiding his travels.

That reminded me of one thing I'd mused on ever since reading "Clan-Building Volume Two". When we first heard about "Timedancer" over ten years ago, we at first assumed that Brooklyn would be carrying the Phoenix Gate about during his forty years of traveling, which raised the question of why he wasn't able to get it to take him home. (The theory that we used at TGS was that the Gate had been damaged by Goliath throwing it away into the time-stream, back at the end of "Future Tense", which did seem like a reasonable speculation.) Then we found out from Greg that Brooklyn never succeeds in grabbing the Gate; it always disappears after depositing him in another time period, but before he can get his hands on it, which cleared the question up - except that it might seem a bit far-fetched that all his attempts for forty years at grabbing the Gate would fail (though we don't know how much of those forty years was spent time travelling, and how much of it was living long stretches in specific setting, such as 2198 or feudal Japan).

But then "The Gate" and "Phoenix" revealed that it wasn't the Gate itself that was transporting Brooklyn about, but the Phoenix within it that was released when the Gate was destroyed, and that changed things still more. The Gate was just a magical artifact, which could be controlled by whoever held it, whether Demona, Goliath, or the Archmage. But the Phoenix is a sentient being, which chooses to transport Brooklyn to different times, such as Scotland in 997. That gave his Timedancing more of a sense of purpose to it, that he was meant to go to all those various eras and do things in them, that his presence in the various ages both past and future wasn't just due to a time travel talisman gone haywire - and I think that change improved the story. Not to mention added a great dramatic image of an enormous fiery bird looming over Brooklyn. [/SPOILER]

DEMONSKRYE - I'm glad that your article on "The Edge" fared so well. Congratulations!
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Oct 26, 2009 6:51:50 pm EDT from 4.244.214.154

DEMONSKRYE> Interesting question, I'm guessing it wouldn't have been to long before gargoyles outside Rome's sphere of influence started noticing there clothes turning to stone with them. Of course most gargs in those days probably "slept in the buff", but I'm sure it wasn't uncommon for them to be caught with their pants UP from time to time.

As for how they explained it, I imagine that would vary from clan to clan. Explanations would ranged from divine intervention to evil curses. Eventualy they would have gotten used to it and the effects of the Humility Spell would have just become a fact of life.

P.S. Before finding out about the Humility Spell, I had a really gross theory about the clothes turning to stone.
Algernon
posted @ Mon, Oct 26, 2009 5:22:40 pm EDT from 86.41.96.166

Just to break up the quiet, here's a question to ponder: How did gargoyles who weren't part of the Roman Empire figure out about the humility spell? Presumably they didn't wear clothes that would just get shredded and need to be replaced on a nightly basis. So how did they learn that they could wear clothes and have them turn to stone with them during the day? And for that matter, did they ever find out why they could now wear clothes without destroying them every sunset?

This week's Ink and Pixel Club is a list of great scary and Halloween themed toons. I didn't mention "Eye of the Beholder;" I already had a lot to cover and I had just done a Gargoyles article, so I felt like it might be overkill. But it's a top candidate for next Halloween. If anyone was wondering, the analysis of "The Edge" did very well hits-wise. Thank you so much to everyone who stopped by and read it. As promised, I will be doing more Gargoyles articles in the future and I'll keep you posted when those are coming up.
Demonskrye - [<---Halloween at The Ink and Pixel Club]
posted @ Mon, Oct 26, 2009 4:26:32 pm EDT from 146.115.115.75

I don't think anyone's posted about the 'Keep the Spectacular Spider-Man Alive!' Facebook group yet: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=174295922428 I like that it focuses more on promoting than petitioning.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]
posted @ Mon, Oct 26, 2009 10:40:07 am EDT from 128.101.32.234

10th in the name of lurking and not having anything relevant to say most of the time.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Mon, Oct 26, 2009 7:27:02 am EDT from 99.177.172.217

At the start of last week, I mentioned that despite the many flaws of "To Serve Mankind", it was the only episode of the Goliath Chronicles that provided a rationale for why the public's hatred for gargoyles had reset itself and all the progress that the gargoyles had made in previous episodes been forgotten.

That led to my musing over the public's behavior towards gargoyles in the Goliath Chronicles. They're easily manipulated into violent riots against the gargoyles and anyone who supports them (their attack on Xanatos's limo at the start of "Broadway Goes to Hollywood"). At the start of every episode, they've gone back to hating the gargoyles again, even though the previous episode might have shown signs of their coming to understand the truth about the clan. In "And Justice For All", it's stated that Goliath isn't having a jury trial because they couldn't find even twelve people in New York who weren't hopelessly prejudiced against gargoyles. And at the start of "Angels in the Night", almost everyone is blindly swallowing Castaway's story, despite Castaway's own record as having been firing heavy artillery in the downtown streets just three episodes earlier (he's not even in jail - not even an explanation of "He's out on bail").

I'm starting to understand why the Goliath Chronicles' production team originally planned to have the gargoyles just give up and leave Manhattan, even though it would have been out of character for them. It's almost impossible to imagine a citizenry like that ever realizing the truth about gargoyles or putting aside their prejudices. If it hadn't been for the presence of a few pro-gargoyle humans like Elisa, and the last-minute change of heart from the public in "Angels in the Night" (which, in light of the observations in the paragraph above, seems sadly improbable after the way it was depicted in the series), the Goliath Chronicles could have come extremely close to confirming Demona's beliefs about the human race.

I hope that, if we get more "Gargoyles" graphic novels from Greg Weisman and SLG, the public response to the gargoyles is handled with greater depth in them.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Oct 26, 2009 7:12:34 am EDT from 4.244.214.82

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Comments for the week ending November 2, 2009

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