Comment Room Archive : Gargoyles : Station Eight

You know, I never really thought about it that way before. I always chalked Broadway's inclination to "destroy the gun first" up to his experience with Elisa's gun in "Deadly Force," but it didn't occur to me that nerves often result in itchy trigger-fingers, and that Broadway would destroy the gun for that reason in particular. In light of the fact that Broadway obviously trusts Elisa with her gun, it does make a lot more sense than Broadway disliking guns simply because they're guns.

Besides, I'm pretty sure that Elisa always uses the same model throughout the series. (Granted, I don't know much about the guns issued to cops, but it makes sense that they'd all be issued the same model...) It should have been obvious that the mere sight of a gun wasn't enough to push Broadway's berserk button, since in that case the sight of Elisa's (or any other cop's) gun would be most likely to do so.
Paul - [nampahcfluap at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Sun, Feb 21, 2010 10:34:02 pm EST from 74.205.192.14

Gargoyleslady> Sorry I didn't respond earlier; I just didn't feel like I had a whole lot to add. I think you should direct your observations to everyone, not just me, so that you can still get a response if I'm not available.

I think much of this episode hinges not on Broadway having no clue that guns are dangerous, but on Broadway not understanding how easy it is to accidently fire a gun. Yes, having grown up in the 10th century, Broadway has very little experience with guns, but I don't by that he has no idea that they can hurt people. He's already dealt with laser guns, and I doubt that Western he saw was completely free of people getting shot. He just doesn't know that a gun can easily be fired unintentionally and can hurt someone in the process. It's much more difficult to accidentally injure someone with a 10th century weapon. That's why Broadway always makes a point after this episode to take out the bad guys' gun first; he knows that panicky or inexperienced shooters could easily hurt or kill someone without even intending to. He's not an anti-gun zealot. Elisa still carries a gun and he doesn't object to it. He just has a much better understanding of just how dangerous guns can be.
Demonskrye - [<---"Toy Story 2" at The Ink and Pixel Club]
posted @ Sun, Feb 21, 2010 8:03:03 pm EST from 146.115.115.75

Why limit an event in the UK to just the UK? I would think you could find between 50 to 100 "Gargoyles" fans in the countries that make up the European Union if you tried. If there were a fans from Europe who came to the U.S. for the Gathering, I'm sure there are people who'd travel to the UK.
Patrick
"There's an old saying in Tennessee - I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee - that says, fool me once, shame on Ã¢ï¿½ï¿½ shame on you. Fool me Ã¢ï¿½ï¿½ you can't get fooled again." - George W. Bush
posted @ Sun, Feb 21, 2010 7:52:31 pm EST from 173.88.135.205

Demonskrye> I'm going to try commenting on the episodes. Deadly Force: Broadway rushed off to see a movie but... no one knew he stopped at Elisa's. He acted on the prism that guns are cool and something to play with, not as dangerous weapons. The gun goes off, it surprises him. He picks it up, thinking he's apologizing to Elisa for playing with it. The minute he sees she's not at the stove, he knows something's wrong and grows concerned. As soon as he finds her on the floor in a pool of blood, I'm sure what's going through his mind is," Oh shit! What have I done?!" He starts to panic as he's realized she's in real trouble and knows enough to get her to a hospital. With her blood literally on his hands, how can he face the others?

And... it was Brooklyn who made note to Goliath that Broadway was missing.
Gargoyleslady -
Gargoyleslady - [kendal dot renfro at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Sun, Feb 21, 2010 6:44:41 pm EST from 166.128.84.161

Jade ~ I fell in love with falconry when I spent a few weeks doing a placement at a bird of prey centre. I also love riding, and think a gargoyles-themed fancy dress one-day event would be fun to incorporate into a Gathering (ignoring the problem of finding enough UK Gargoyles fans that could also ride!)

I still think it would be hard to get anywhere near 70 UK fans that were willing to attend a Gathering, although a Gargoyles-themed tour of Scotland would be amazing fun if there were even just a handful of us. (Any non-UK fans would be more than welcome if they could afford the travel!) Assuming I successfully graduate in a year and a half and finally get a half-decent paid job, I'd love to organise something like that.

I'm incredibly jealous of everyone lucky enough to have attended any of the Gatherings ~ I'd have especially loved to have seen the art shows, and from what I've seen after a quick YouTube search, it looks like the radio plays were a blast as well!
Louise
posted @ Sun, Feb 21, 2010 6:24:15 pm EST from 95.146.110.234

I've been wondering about Captain Chavez myself. She did have evidence that the one who shot Elisa in "Deadly Force" wasn't human, though she naturally came to the wrong conclusion. Would she remember the prints on the gun?

And would the case still be open after two or three years?
Paul - [nampahcfluap at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Sun, Feb 21, 2010 5:37:47 pm EST from 74.205.192.14

Louise> Actually, there is a group who does falconry here in Reno, NV, in the US where I live. Neat! Was fun to watch them. One of their guys was from Australia. As for finding enough UK fans, the first gathering of the gargoyles had only like 70 people. If you build it, they will come... And yes, it was ALWAYS a fricken' blast, no matter what went wrong, because it was all good when yer with clan members:) No leaky ceilings in the art show when I ran it, nor missing my plane leaving Quebec could put a damper on my spirits. Not even seeing a near fight break out between guests and hotel staff. Wow... Good times:)
Jade Griffin - [jade_griffin at hotmail dot com]
"Food, food, FOOD!!" - Jade Griffin, on many occasions
posted @ Sun, Feb 21, 2010 4:26:47 pm EST from 24.205.206.74

My mistake then. I misinterpreted what you were saying and forgot that gargoyles partnering with the NYPD was part of that document.
Demonskrye - [<---"Toy Story 2" at The Ink and Pixel Club]
posted @ Sun, Feb 21, 2010 4:22:49 pm EST from 146.115.115.75

Well, I was one of the winners of the 2198 contest and the prize was an extended document concerning the 2198 spin-off. It mentions that the Manhattan Clan in 2198 is working with the NYPD to safeguard New York and that gargoyles also act as peacekeepers within the United Nations.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" -Sevarius, 'Louse'
posted @ Sun, Feb 21, 2010 4:14:43 pm EST from 76.217.239.172

Antiyonder> I think Matt meant that it occurred to him as a possibility.

I think the Gargoyle Minority Protection Act would have to include some kind of recognition of the fact that protection is an essential part of gargoyle culture and maybe lay down some general guidelines for how human societies where gargoyles live should work towards integrating gargoyles into their system of law enforcement. I could see gargoyles becoming more subject to the same guidelines that police n the area have to follow, with maybe a bit more leeway in certain areas. Maybe members of a local gargoyle clan are considered deputized as officers of the law once they reach a certain age. Maybe there are rules about whether a gargoyle breaking the rules is to be dealt with by the clan or turned over to the human justice system.

I think that in 2198 and beyond, we'll be seeing very different approaches to the concept of protection from clan to clan.
Demonskrye - [<---"Toy Story 2" at The Ink and Pixel Club]
posted @ Sun, Feb 21, 2010 4:14:32 pm EST from 146.115.115.75

Matt> Something that occurs to me is that by 2198, the Manhattan Clan is actually WORKING WITH the NYPD to safeguard the island.

When did Greg mention that? I don't recall any timeline entries or summary for 2198 mentioning that.
Antiyonder
posted @ Sun, Feb 21, 2010 3:34:06 pm EST from 96.239.198.131

I think there really is going to be something to be said for the Manhattan Clan having to change their tactics in years to come.

Something that occurs to me is that by 2198, the Manhattan Clan is actually WORKING WITH the NYPD to safeguard the island. I think that says a lot about the influence Elisa and the Gargoyle TaskForce will have down the road, but I also think that it says something about what the Manhattan Clan is allowed to do by the authorities without legal consequences. Recall that Elisa once expressed to her father that since the gargoyles don't legally exist, they can't legally trespass and whatnot. So if they don't legally exist, can they be vigilantes? By 2198, the gargoyles DO legally exist and things will have to change. I think this is a big reason why gargoyles will have to work WITH the NYPD in patrolling and peacekeeping in the city. It may have even been a prerequisite to the GMPA passing. We'll give you legally protected status, but you have to opperate within the boundaries of the law.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" -Sevarius, 'Louse'
posted @ Sun, Feb 21, 2010 3:17:32 pm EST from 76.217.239.172

ANTIYONDER - We'll have to wait and see. Greg will probably (if he gets to write more "Gargoyles" stories) provide a careful balance for the vigilantism charges - having the people accusing the gargoyles of vigilantism challenge the clan enough to provide some tension, but not enough to force the gargoyles to give up patrolling the city, which would make it harder to provide adventures for them. The same kind of tension, I assume, as in "Batman" and other super-hero stories.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Sun, Feb 21, 2010 7:05:36 am EST from 4.244.215.221

Todd Jensen> With that in mind, I wonder if after the Gargoyles Minority Act is in place if Gargoyles can freely fight a criminal or if they will be treated as vigilantes.
Antiyonder
posted @ Sat, Feb 20, 2010 11:05:52 pm EST from 96.239.198.131

It's been ages since I've last been on here, and I only ever posted one or two comments, but I've been lurking a bit recently and found the comments regarding future Gatherings interesting. I always wanted to go, but couldn't afford the flights. It got me thinking about what I would do if I suddenly became a millionairre ~ I'd arrange a Gathering in a castle in Scotland and go with a medieval theme for the weekend. I'd have a ceilidh on one of the nights, with the girls in dresses/ball gowns and the guys in kilts or suits. I'd also arrange falconry displays in keeping with the medieval theme. The staff would all have to dress as gargoyles, and we would have the full run of the castle for the weekend. (Hey, I can dream!!)

Even though I've never been to a Gathering, I still found it quite sad when I realised last years was the last ever. I suppose the hope had been there that I would be able to afford to go at some point in the distant future. It always sounded like so much fun when I read people's con journals! If the Scotland tour ever did take place, I'd certainly be up for it (uni/work allowing!) It really would be nice to have something Gargoyles-related in the UK, although I'd imagine it could be a potential nightmare trying to find enough UK fans to make it work.
Louise
posted @ Sat, Feb 20, 2010 8:17:49 pm EST from 95.146.110.194

on the gathering/convention. i just got a friend involved in gargoyles, we bought the dvds and hope to get comics. we were also looking forward to attendeing a gathering till i found out last years was the last(for now). i hope something returns, but understand the difficulty that such an undertaking must have been.

anyhow, we look forward to contine to support and be apart of the fandom.

sah
sahyinepu - [sahyinepu at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Sat, Feb 20, 2010 7:23:49 pm EST from 98.198.120.33

I remember suspicions that Chavez isn't going to be too thrilled with Elisa (and maybe Matt, as well) for keeping the gargoyles' presence in the clock tower secret from her. (Not to mention that she might raise the question over the gargoyles' crime-fighting activities being counted as vigilantism - of course, since almost all the humans in New York look upon the gargoyles as wild animals, that charge probably won't be raised for a long time.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Sat, Feb 20, 2010 6:29:40 pm EST from 4.244.210.213

Phoenician> Makes me wonder if Chavez will be a friend or an enemy of the clan.
Gargoyleslady - [kendal dot renfro at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Sat, Feb 20, 2010 4:11:13 pm EST from 166.183.240.44

Missing Moments -- I've often wondered about Captain Chavez's suspicions about the Gargoyles. Evidently Elisa & Matt kept it under wraps pretty well before Hunter's Moon, but now that Chavez knows that gargoyles were staying in the clock tower for (in her knowledge) some period of time, I'm curious if she'll start putting two and two together.

No doubt her interaction with the newly formed Gargoyles Taskforce will be interesting . . .

Then again, I've also wondered why Chavez hasn't been more suspicious throughout the series, considering (according to Greg W) she's a friend of the Maza family and has probably known Elisa for several years.
Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible . . . I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Sat, Feb 20, 2010 3:00:02 pm EST from 157.242.197.103

Wingless>Lex and Hudson seeing the sunrise.
Harlan Phoenix
posted @ Sat, Feb 20, 2010 2:30:27 pm EST from 76.2.91.55

HeavyInk has Mecha-Nation #1 & 2 available for pre-order with an April 28th release date: http://heavyink.com/comic/13130-Mecha-Nation-1 That might be a guess but there's at least some cool (if small) glimpses at the final comic covers.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]
posted @ Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:10:46 am EST from 128.101.32.234

Oh i remember that episode when I was a kid taught me never to play with guns
Emily - [poogleann at yahoo dot com]
Goliath you and I aren't so different we're hated by the normal people outcasts attacked by those who refuse to get to know us (Romania the vampire from my gargoyles in Romania fic)
posted @ Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:13:28 am EST from 209.124.210.239

Demonskrye> I'm going to try commenting on the episodes. Deadly Force: Broadway rushed off to see a movie but... no one knew he stopped at Elisa's. He acts on the prism that guns are cool and something to play with, not as dangerous weapons. The gun goes off, it surprises him. He picks it up, thinking he's apologizing to Elisa for playing with it. The minute he sees she's not at the stove, he knows something's wrong and grows concerned. As soon as he finds her on the floor in a pool of blood, I'm sure what's going through his mind is," Oh shit! What have I done?!" He starts to panic as he's realized she's in real trouble and knows enough to get her to a hospital. With her blood literally on his hands, how can he face the others?

And... it was Brooklyn who made note to Goliath that Broadway was missing.
Gargoyleslady - [kendal dot renfro at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:05:54 am EST from 166.183.141.116

Terriermon> thanks! Buy the Comics, too! (Unless you already have them!)
battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:49:52 am EST from 75.159.239.62

Justin -- Hey, great to see you in the CR :D How you enjoying your hand-sized Phoenix Gate? (I'm still loving its necklace counterparts) d:
Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible . . . I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Fri, Feb 19, 2010 12:52:55 am EST from 157.242.198.42

Hi brethren, Its been ages sense I was last in here. I just wanted to finally return and get reacquainted with friends from the Gathering.
Justin "Id Rather Be Pillaging"
posted @ Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:17:45 pm EST from 76.29.2.195

In Issue #6 of the comics, it would have been nice to see Thailog break out of stone sleep the following night, especially since the toga didn't turn to stone. It would have been even funnier if Brentwood had walked in the room immediately after that.

Although, we do have some fanart on this subject, which was amusing.
Harvester of Eyes
"I can face her. I just can't beat her." Hudson ("Long Way to Morning")
posted @ Thu, Feb 18, 2010 9:38:23 pm EST from 70.177.182.14

Bought Season 1 and 2 Gargoyles, adding brownie points for the making of the third season DVD set ^_^
Terriermon
posted @ Thu, Feb 18, 2010 8:59:33 pm EST from 129.71.73.243

so someone showed me anime characters made to look like gargoyles and this gets me wondering would Goliath meet Ichigo Kurosaki when he dies
Emily - [poogleann at yahoo dot com]
Goliath you and I aren't so different we're hated by the normal people outcasts attacked by those who refuse to get to know us (Romania the vampire from my gargoyles in Romania fic)
posted @ Thu, Feb 18, 2010 6:24:00 pm EST from 209.124.210.239

Demonskrye> That and if a person tries too hard to attract someone, they only succeed in annoy the target of their affections. And given that Brooklyn's main concern will be to go home, chances are that he won't come across as a desperate looking gargoyle.

battle Beast> Aside from Greg's explanation of their encounter, the other possibility is an early form of an internet dating service.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
Algernon's comment about Norman Osborn: One of the neat things about Dark Reign is that it gives Osborn the chance to expand his horizons beyond tormenting a twenty nine year old who still lives with his mom.
posted @ Thu, Feb 18, 2010 4:43:47 pm EST from 71.115.241.194

Sorry for the Double Post

PATRICK> How apropo your Willy Wonka quote in relation to your last response!
battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Thu, Feb 18, 2010 4:07:33 pm EST from 75.159.239.62

Wingless> I've always wanted to see how Xanatos, Puck and Demona got together.

Also... More of the young Gargoyles on Avalon.

I'd love to see some of the "down time" between Goliath and Japan/Guatamala/London/Avalon (if any) when he tells them his story of survival and they tell theirs.
battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Thu, Feb 18, 2010 4:05:04 pm EST from 75.159.239.62

Here's a topic idea. What off-camera scene from the show or comic would you like to see?

Among the simpler ones would be: After Matt confronting Elisa about knowing about the Gargoyles-I would have liked to see her explain to Matt about them, and just how much did she reveal about them.

Derek & the Tape recorder that Elisa gave him of Fox. What did he do with it? Did he ever listen to it and disregard what was said or did he just pitch it?

Lex, Brook & Broadway putting the Helecopter back together.

There are others, but what are yours...
Wingless
posted @ Thu, Feb 18, 2010 3:30:01 pm EST from 99.245.254.123

Cheeks finishes his cover for Mecha-Nation #3: http://gotcheeks.blogspot.com/2010/02/mechanation-cover-3.html
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]
posted @ Thu, Feb 18, 2010 2:04:03 pm EST from 128.101.32.234

okay maybe I can start it at the library and slowly build it up
Emily - [poogleann at yahoo dot com]
Goliath you and I aren't so different we're hated by the normal people outcasts attacked by those who refuse to get to know us (Romania the vampire from my gargoyles in Romania fic)
posted @ Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:04:40 am EST from 209.124.210.239

Gargoyleslady> I don't really have much to add. Your reading of events seems to be right on the money. The only things is that I'm not sure "disgusted" is the right word for Brooklyn's reaction to Delilah and Malibu pairing up. "Exasperated," maybe. His greatest desire right now is to find a mate and it seems to him like not only is he unable to succeed at that task, but everyone around him is, including his clone who looks exactly like him. Brooklyn's desperate need to find a mate is keeping him from recognizing what makes a good relationship. He goes after any female who even resembles a gargoyle, as we saw when he was pursuing Maggie, without really considering who they are and whether he is a good match for them. It's understandable that he's acting this way. His opportunities for meeting potential mates are pretty scarce and he's at an age where the urge to find a mate is likely pretty strong. But until he can learn to love another gargoyle for who she is and not just because she's an available female, he's going to be alone.

Emily> No one can really stop anyone from trying to organize a new con. The only thing that isn't allowed is using the name "Gathering of the Gargoyles." But anyone who wants to try should be aware of the challenges they're up against: that it's not easy, that it requires a lot of time and energy, that planning needs to start as far as a year in advance, that the attendance numbers from the Gathering do not indicate a growth in demand for a Gargoyles convention, and that you may well end up losing money.

Battle Beast> Like I said, I don't think there's really any negativity on the subject right now. There was in the past and if it starts up again, I would agree that we should change the subject. But in this recent discussion, I don't see anything but respect for what the Gathering organizers were able to pull off.

Sorry Troll> I don't have any more information than anyone else, but I tend to doubt that she would. Demona wants to eradicate humanity and may well see any war as both a way of furthering that goal and proof of her theory that humans are incapable of living peacefully with each other, much less sharing the world with her kind. I'm not saying that she would support Hitler or try to help his cause. I just think she wouldn't particularly care one way or another who won or who lost, as long as there were fewer humans when the smoke cleared.

What I have been told is that the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki did leave Demona very concerned. The current theory seems to be that these events made her realize that humans could completely destroy the planet in the course of their wars and render it totally uninhabitable for any life, gargoyles included. So that may have been the point where she decided that she couldn't just count on humans to wipe themselves out and needed to do the job herself.
Demonskrye - [<---"Toy Story 2" at The Ink and Pixel Club]
posted @ Thu, Feb 18, 2010 7:55:46 am EST from 146.115.115.75

There's a line in the Gargoyles/Spectacular Spider-Man crossover radio play that implies that Demona knows something about Hitler's death - but since the crossover isn't canon, that doesn't count.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, Feb 18, 2010 7:21:36 am EST from 4.244.210.252

She knocked him off his unicycle while he was juggling, but he only skinned a knee.
Patrick
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Thu, Feb 18, 2010 6:59:34 am EST from 173.88.135.205

Did Demona try to assassinate Hitler during World War II?
"The" Sorry I have to ask this Troll
posted @ Wed, Feb 17, 2010 11:39:43 pm EST from 129.71.73.243

Demonskrye> I didn't mean for it to be a taboo subject; I jsut meant for there not to be soooo much negativity.

Another possibility would be for the Con to be every two years. That would make things easier on anyone who wanted to do multiple cons, I think...

But as I said before, great jobs guys. :)
battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Wed, Feb 17, 2010 10:45:58 pm EST from 75.159.239.62

Last volume of the Spectacular Spider-Man is scheduled to come out April 27th, which hopefully means the Complete Season 2 set won't be far behind.

Cover Art:
http://tvshowsondvd.com/news/Spectacular-Spider-Man-Volume-8/13348

Hopefully they spice it up a little . . . this is the only cover to feature just the web-spinner . . . we need shots of Moltan Man, Black Cat, and Gobby d:
Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Wed, Feb 17, 2010 9:28:38 pm EST from 157.242.209.22

just let we the fans try and do a con plz if we get one then yay if not oh well
Emily - [poogleann at yahoo dot com]
Goliath you and I aren't so different we're hated by the normal people outcasts attacked by those who refuse to get to know us (Romania the vampire from my gargoyles in Romania fic)
posted @ Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:18:24 pm EST from 209.124.210.239

Demonskrye> Chapter 2: The Journey. Brooklyn has seen Broadway and Angela kissing in the library and realizes that has no chance with Angela now. To him, this is like a knife to the heart but he's not going to explode in rage at the two of them. He'll keep his feelings to himself.

Chapter 3: Invitation Only

After losing out on Angela, Brooklyn decides try his luck with Delilah but... before he can say her anything, Goliath asks her to the party. It didn't sit well with him at all that another male came along and took her and it was Goliath no less!

Chapter 4: Masque

Seeing Goliath with Delilah was like seeing Broadway with Angela so to Brooklyn, they're a constant reminder that he doesn't have anyone.

Chapter 5: Bash

Brooklyn did NOT like the idea of Delilah with Malibu. If there's anything that disgusts him more, it's seeing his clone with her. It was like he was saying," Oh please! Give me a break!"

Chapter 7: The Rock

When MacBeth was talking to Brooklyn, Brooklyn was brooding over his failed attempts at finding a mate so he wasn't exactly in a real good mood and wasn't talking much.

Chapter 11: Tyrants

Demona accuses Brooklyn of wanting to destroy the clan. Brooklyn goes," I'm the one who wants to destroy the clan?! I don't think so."

Then he was like," Whoa, wait a minute! This isn't the Demona I know. Classic Demona. Tenth century."

But it didn't matter, she is still a traitor. His temper flares, he attacks her.

Also, Brooklyn's lament about his heart turning to stone and Hakon taking a mace to it is pain. Emotional pain. The pain of being lonely.

I decided to study Brooklyn's character development in the comics.
Gargoyleslady - [kendal dot renfro at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:21:23 pm EST from 209.235.111.116

Battle Beast> Well, people are likely to keep popping up wanting to try their hand at hosting a Gargoyles con. And yes, I guess we can just tell them all to go over to the message board for that discussion. But I don't think it should be a taboo topic around here. So far, I haven't seen anyone talking about the Gathering or the people who organized it in a disparaging way. The do deserve all kinds of credit for keeping it running as long as they did. But any conversation about a new convention is going to include discussion of how to do things differently. Not because the Gathering organizers were doing a bad job, but because frankly, I don't think Gargoyles can really support a traditional convention. It's not a huge fandom to begin with and the total number of fans who might potentially go to a Gargoyles convention gets decreased when you factor in people who can't afford to go, don't want to travel, have a scheduling conflict, just aren't interested in a con, have been to previous year's cons and feel like they're done with it. or whatever. The main reason I don't believe Gargoyles can support a traditional con is that I think the Gathering staff did everything humanly possibly to try and make that model work.

That doesn't mean I don't think there can be any kind of Gargoyles convention or fan get-together. It just may require a very different approach. One possible idea might be to join up with or start a con with a larger scope that Gargoyles could fit into: fantasy, animation, 90s TV shows, or what have you. You may not have as many Gargoyles related guests, but there would still be some and fans would have the opportunity to meet up and celebrate some of their other interests as well. Or you could go in the opposite direction and think smaller. I'm guessing that a big part of the expense of the con is the actual space where the con is held. (Correct me if I'm wrong.) So maybe that could be taken out of the equation. Maybe instead of an actual convention, it's a day of hanging out with other fans and Greg. Keep it in California within easy driving distance for Greg, schedule a few activities around town, use attendee fees to pay for Greg's meals and admission to any attractions, and leave it at that. Those are just two ideas, by no means perfect, but maybe worth considering.

That's all I mean by rethinking the idea of a con. Not to rag on the Gathering or anyone who worked on it, but to look at possible new ways of getting fans together.
Demonskrye - [<---"Toy Story 2" at The Ink and Pixel Club]
posted @ Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:30:14 pm EST from 146.115.115.75

I was going back into lurk mode butreally wanted to share this.

I was watching this auction in hopes that I could jump in and win but its now higher than the price range I wanted to spend.

http://cgi.ebay.com/DISNEYS-GARGOYLES-FIGURES_W0QQitemZ110493556267QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item19b9edde2b#ht_500wt_975
Lurker - [JohnR783 at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:57:07 pm EST from 99.97.139.22

Can't we just say that the Gathering Staff did one hell of a job the last 13 years, they can't afford it anymore, decided to end it, and leave it at that? Just give them the cudos they deserve and move on?

Thaks, guys and gals!
battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:20:23 pm EST from 75.159.239.62

yeah but I already spent my cash for the week so i can't buy it now
Emily - [poogleann at yahoo dot com]
Goliath you and I aren't so different we're hated by the normal people outcasts attacked by those who refuse to get to know us (Romania the vampire from my gargoyles in Romania fic)
posted @ Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:48:29 pm EST from 209.124.210.239

EMILIY> You can find the story in the Clan Building Volume 2 trade paperback available on Amazon.com...

http://www.amazon.com/Gargoyles-Clan-Building-Greg-Weisman/dp/1593621671/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1266432572&sr=8-1
Algernon
posted @ Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:50:19 pm EST from 86.41.100.139

wow I need to find the issue with the way you guys describe it
Emily - [poogleann at yahoo dot com]
Goliath you and I aren't so different we're hated by the normal people outcasts attacked by those who refuse to get to know us (Romania the vampire from my gargoyles in Romania fic)
posted @ Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:48:33 am EST from 209.124.210.239

PAUL> The point of the story is that it didn't matter because the Spirit of Destiny cannot be possessed.

Either way, it's a hypothetical, and it really doesn't matter since Xanatos gave them the actual stone that was at Westminister Abbey.
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:00:44 am EST from 74.88.215.133

Would the Illuminati ever find out that Xanatos had tricked them? The whole ploy was for Peredur's benefit, and I'm pretty sure that he keeps everything on a need-to-know basis. Besides, Peredur would have to find out that the Stone was a fake, and after that speech, I'm sure that he would either be convinced that it was real or not care if it was fake.

And it wouldn't be the first time the Illuminati were tricked by one of their own; Matt Bluestone managed to pull a fast one or two on Martin Hacker even before he became an Illuminatus, and no one ever found out that Matt was directly responsible for Mace's failure to keep Goliath trapped. (In fact, Martin explicitly said that he wasn't.)
Paul - [nampahcfluap at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Tue, Feb 16, 2010 11:45:14 pm EST from 74.205.192.14

@Emily - The issue that you haven't found yet can be found here: http://tinyurl.com/yl7zs5l

@Comment Room - Thank you everyone for the birthday wishes! I appreciate it!
Anthony Tini
posted @ Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:55:30 pm EST from 70.15.81.119

wait what i haven't found that issue yet
Emily - [poogleann at yahoo dot com]
Goliath you and I aren't so different we're hated by the normal people outcasts attacked by those who refuse to get to know us (Romania the vampire from my gargoyles in Romania fic)
posted @ Tue, Feb 16, 2010 7:31:33 pm EST from 209.124.210.239

Demonskrye> In Tyrants, the scene where Brooklyn was talking to Mary, he wasn't guaranteeing he could keep his temper and... it flared when he confronted Demona. His hatred for her hasn't changed one bit.

The Rock:

Xanatos expected Goliath to send two members of his clan overseas to protect the Stone. He didn't want Owen to stop them because he wanted to see how things would play out and... it was a test.

Who would have thought Xanatos would fool the Illuminati? I doubt they're going to be pleased when they find out he gave them a fake Stone and,knowing Xanatos, he would have done something like this for his own benefit and it has nothing to do with protecting the clan.
Gargoyleslady - [kendal dot renfro at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Tue, Feb 16, 2010 7:11:15 pm EST from 209.235.111.116

awesome thanks for the link
Emily - [poogleann at yahoo dot com]
Goliath you and I aren't so different we're hated by the normal people outcasts attacked by those who refuse to get to know us (Romania the vampire from my gargoyles in Romania fic)
posted @ Tue, Feb 16, 2010 6:31:56 pm EST from 209.124.210.239

And by the way... a forum was started up last fall to discuss post-Gathering ideas. Here's the link:

http://gargcon.yuku.com/
Patrick
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Tue, Feb 16, 2010 5:40:33 pm EST from 173.88.135.205

What I have noticed when it comes to the end of the Gathering is that some people say they want straight forward answers, and we have provided them. But it seems some people would rather have simple answers, and there are none.

And like Patrick said, the guest expenses at G2009 were kept to a minimum because we didn't have to pay to fly anyone out and put them up in a hotel room. They all lived within driving distance.
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Tue, Feb 16, 2010 5:40:29 pm EST from 74.88.215.133

The guest-related expenses for the 2009 Gathering were the lowest they'd been in several years. I just wanted to state that to head off the "too many guests blew the budget" line of thought.
Patrick
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Tue, Feb 16, 2010 5:35:35 pm EST from 173.88.135.205

Awesome
Emily - [poogleann at yahoo dot com]
Goliath you and I aren't so different we're hated by the normal people outcasts attacked by those who refuse to get to know us (Romania the vampire from my gargoyles in Romania fic)
posted @ Tue, Feb 16, 2010 4:05:43 pm EST from 209.124.210.239

Two more Spectacular Spider-Man DVDs with episodes from season 2 have been released today:

http://www.amazon.com/Spectacular-Spider-Man-6-Josh-Keaton/dp/B002WY65TC
http://www.amazon.com/Spectacular-Spider-Man-7-Josh-Keaton/dp/B002WY65TM
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]
posted @ Tue, Feb 16, 2010 3:37:29 pm EST from 128.101.32.234

maybe it could be called Gargoyles reunion idk just throwing a name out there
Emily - [poogleann at yahoo dot com]
Goliath you and I aren't so different we're hated by the normal people outcasts attacked by those who refuse to get to know us (Romania the vampire from my gargoyles in Romania fic)
posted @ Tue, Feb 16, 2010 12:44:31 pm EST from 209.124.210.239

I think it would definitely be possible to have a civil discussion about the possibility of a future Gargoyles convention. (It's probably best if we don't call if a Gathering, since no one else is allowed to use the name "Gathering of the Gargoyles" for a new con.) Even though I have never been to a Gathering, I have a tremendous amount of respect for the people who made them happen. I realize what a lot of time and work they must have been and I think the fact that the convention went on for as many years as it did is amazing.

That said, the Gathering has ended, and anyone who wants to try to start a new Gargoyles convention is probably going to want to do things differently. This is not to say that the previous organizers were somehow "doing it wrong." I think they did the best they could to achieve their particular goals for the convention. Anyone who does want to try to start up a new con is going to want to be aware of the Gathering's history. Part of that means being aware of all the stuff Patrick is talking about: that putting together a con is a pretty big undertaking and requires more than making a few phone calls. But it also probably means what Matt is talking about: rethinking what the con should be pretty much from the ground up. There's no sense in having a new con that's exactly like the Gathering if it's going to end up losing money like the Gathering did. So new con organizers are going to have to think about what the structure of a new con should be, how they can provide an event that people will enjoy and want to attend while still at least breaking even. Maybe this means a smaller scale event, fewer guests, locations athat guests can drive to, a single location rather than a rotating one, a broader focus from the start than just Gargoyles or any number of other possibilities. I'm not saying any of these ideas would make for a perfect con; they all have their drawbacks. But I think it's a given that a new con needs a new approach in at least some areas if it's going to avoid the same fate as the Gathering.
Demonskrye - [<---"Toy Story 2" at The Ink and Pixel Club]
posted @ Tue, Feb 16, 2010 12:38:18 pm EST from 146.115.115.75

My niece who is four no less is a fan as I showed her the show that i had on videotapes from when I was younger she loves it and even with her fairy wings pretends to be a gargoyle so I want to try and do a gathering so she can go to one
Emily - [poogleann at yahoo dot com]
Goliath you and I aren't so different we're hated by the normal people outcasts attacked by those who refuse to get to know us (Romania the vampire from my gargoyles in Romania fic)
posted @ Tue, Feb 16, 2010 11:05:30 am EST from 209.124.210.239

As much as I respect Patrick and all the others who've put forth a lot of work, time and money into the Gatherings over the years, I can see Jurgen's point and kinda agree with him.

Ever since it was announced that the '09 Gathering was to be the last I really began to consider why. And after attending the '09 convention I came away with a few concrete thoughts. The most relevant thought is that it has never been the number of guests that drove the convention, but rather the commitment of the fans. Having forty guests is great, but it seems to really drain the convention of a lot of money. I think many people would still go if there were only one or two guests. Afterall, the most commom reason my fellow fans say they attend the Gathering is to reconnect and spend time with OTHER fans. The events and the guests are great and people enjoy those, but it is the community that the fans are most strongly attracted to. I wonder if the staffs of more recent Gatherings have lost sight of that. It seems to me that their ideaology is to say bring in more guests, that'll bring in more fans and combine Gargoyles with Spider-Man, that'll bring in more fans. I'm not sure that was the best course of action for the convention. Perhaps when attendance numbers started decreasing, expenses should've been cut rather than expanded in the hopes of bringing in more people.

I think that a simpler convention with Greg and another guest or two perhaps would still work out and turn a profit. The convention has to reflect its fans, afterall. The hardcore fans will attend regardless, so gear it towards them.

I say all this with utmost respect for the great job the Gathering staff has done over the years and hope none of my comments will rile anyone up. I have no interest in causing a fight, just want to get some thoughts out there.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" -Sevarius, 'Louse'
posted @ Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:22:48 am EST from 70.237.138.21

Gargoyleslady> You seem to be doing a fine job getting what's going on in the comic, except for the small detail that Lex and Hudson's trip is to London rather than Scotland.

Brooklyn is in a rather awkward situation. He may be genuinely concerned that Goliath wouldn't be able to handle a big battle without some help since he's still recovering from being stabbed by Thailog. But his main reason for wanting to stay in Manhattan is to get some time away from Broadway and Angela so he doesn't have to be constantly reminded that Angela didn't chose him and he is still without a mate. But as you correctly note, Broadway and Angela are totally unaware of this. They have no idea how much their presence is bothering Brooklyn. They are only concerned about making sure Goliath isn't vulnerable to attack in his weakened state. So now Brooklyn is stuck. He can't say "Actually, now that I think about it, I really would like to go to London" without making it obvious that his main goal was to get away from Broadway and Angela, which would make him look pretty bad to the rest of the clan. So Brooklyn doesn't get his time away from Broadway and Angela, and he doesn't get to go to London. Poor guy.
Demonskrye - [<---"Toy Story 2" at The Ink and Pixel Club]
posted @ Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:35:04 am EST from 146.115.115.75

Anthony Tini - Happy birthday!

lvl27_Cubone - Congrats on the trip! I just remembered a video you might like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVxe5NIABsI
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]
posted @ Tue, Feb 16, 2010 12:06:34 am EST from 216.250.163.157

Don't take it so hard, Patrick. I'm just making suggestions- believe me, I'm not trying to start a whole new drama. I'm just wondering how this crazy thing got started back in 1997. Was Greg the only guest that year? I'm sure I heard that there were only around eighty attendees that year. Granted, the person who ran that first one didn't carry it on, but it seems that someone could do something similar again. If someone else wanted to restart it, it would have to be smaller. But surely it's possible, right?
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:10:03 pm EST from 71.204.227.228

Fewer than 100 people will not provide you with the income for "Greg, Thom, and maybe a couple other guests" anywhere where air travel becomes involved. THAT is one of the points I keep trying to make. With fewer than 100 people, you'll be doing well to cover the expenses of one, maybe two guests.

I really feel like I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't. If I don't tell people that organizing a convention is so much work it's like having a second unpaid job and that even so they may have to put a chunk of their own money into it by the time it's all said and done - both of which are the truth - I'd get crap for not having been honest and upfront. When I do talk about it, I get crap for being a buzzkill and told I'm scaring people off.

So yeah... maybe I should just shut up. :P
Patrick
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:23:07 pm EST from 173.88.135.205

DEMONSKRYE - I'm glad you liked it. (I could possibly enlarge the hypothetical term to include England as well - London, especially Westminster Abbey, Tintagel, both because of its Arthurian associations and because it was the real-life original for Castle Wyvern, and Stratford-upon-Avon for its connections to Shakespeare.)

For those Americans who can't afford to go abroad, at least we can set up a "Gargoyles" tour of New York City (Belvedere Castle, the Cloisters, the Statue of Liberty, the Metropolitan Museum of Art - including Cleopatra's Needle just outside - etc.).
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:01:23 pm EST from 4.244.211.56

Let me hasten to point out that I think the people who ran the cons for years are terrific. I went in '06, '07, and '08 and had a blast (also '02, but I didn't get as involved that time). I'm sure '09 was great, and I wish I could have come, but I was still paying off my bills from the earlier ones, plus it was so late that I was back at school by then. But there's something I've wanted to say for a while. I'm probably going to regret this, but:

Patrick: I get that you want people to appreciate the scope of the challenge. However, have you ever considered that you might be scaring away people who could be very good at it? It seemed to me like, whenever I'd think about getting involved, I'd be warned about how hard it was. I never volunteered to work at a con, but I wanted to. It seemed, though, that everyone was warned about how much work it is. And when it came to running one, it sounded terrifying. The staff complained that no one put in bids, and yet whenever people suggested "maybe I'll try," they were invariably told that it was an incredibly difficult job you'd have to be insane to take on. With that in mind, I expect many people figured "I don't know if I can do it- better leave it to the old hands." Now, since the Gathering staff seemed to be doing such a good job of running fun cons, and since anyone else who thought about it was warned off, is it a surprise that it ended up being the same people every year?

Personally, I think that if we want to have Gatherings continue, they should be downsized for now. I accept there's none this year. But it started with fewer than one hundred people in New York, right? A small Gathering, with Greg, Thom, and maybe a couple other guests could be fun. Of course, it wouldn't be as big a draw as the mega-cons in L.A., but it also wouldn't require such a huge up front commitment. Maybe having no Gathering one year will get some people off the sidelines, now that they've seen that "maybe next year" can't be taken for granted.
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:01:21 pm EST from 71.204.227.228

hey I can try can't I
Emily - [poogleann at yahoo dot com]
Goliath you and I aren't so different we're hated by the normal people outcasts attacked by those who refuse to get to know us (Romania the vampire from my gargoyles in Romania fic)
posted @ Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:35:39 pm EST from 209.124.210.239

Demonskrye> It's easier for me to follow the comics than the TV Show. Okay, Chapter Seven: The Rock. Brooklyn didn't look too pleased at the mention of The Stone. Broadway and Angela were rubbing salt in his wounds and didn't even realize they were doing it. Brooklyn didn't know how much longer he could stand to be around them. He certainly didn't appear to be too thrilled about going to Scotland as much as Lex was and inside, Brooklyn was probably screaming to get away from Broadway and Angela.
Gargoyleslady - [kendal dot renfro at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:32:07 pm EST from 209.235.111.116

Seems every week I have to come in here and say "Hello" to a new person and then immediately follow up with "If you've never before planned a four-day party for 200+ people, you really have NO idea what you'd be getting into," regarding the hosting of a convention.
Patrick
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:24:25 pm EST from 173.88.135.205

Then with help from my aunt I will do my own gathering even if its just fans in Louisiana I will try and make another one
Emily - [poogleann at yahoo dot com]
Goliath you and I aren't so different we're hated by the normal people outcasts attacked by those who refuse to get to know us (Romania the vampire from my gargoyles in Romania fic)
posted @ Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:14:41 pm EST from 209.124.210.239

Todd> Sounds like a blast. I once took a trip around England, Scotland, and Ireland with my family and while I didn't get to hit all these sites, I did get in some Gargoyles appropriate stuff, including Macbeth at the Globe. If I ever go back to Scotland, I would probably try to have some of these spots on my itinerary.

Emily> Sadly, the 2009 Gathering was the last one and there are no current plans for a new convention.
Demonskrye - [<---"Toy Story 2" at The Ink and Pixel Club]
posted @ Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:13:07 pm EST from 146.115.115.75

so I had no idea where else to ask but is it true there will be no more gathering I being a fan of the show when I was younger just recently found out and am heart broken to hear this maybe with help from my aunt I can do a gathering here in baton rouge if it is true that there are no more gatherings
Emily - [poogleann at yahoo dot com]
Goliath you and I aren't so different we're hated by the normal people outcasts attacked by those who refuse to get to know us (Romania the vampire from my gargoyles in Romania fic)
posted @ Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:57:38 pm EST from 209.124.210.239

Happy Birthday, Anthony! (Sorry I didn't see that last night.) :)
battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Mon, Feb 15, 2010 12:49:13 pm EST from 75.159.239.62

Happy birthday, Anthony!

I might have mentioned this before, but I've sometimes imagined the possibility of a "Gargoyles Tour" of Scotland. I don't think it's realistically feasible at present for U.S. "Gargoyles" fans, though fans in the U.K. would probably be able to carry it out. I've thought of the following locations that such a tour could visit:

EDINBURGH: The capital of Scotland; Edinburgh Castle should obviously be on the location list since it featured in "Gargoyles" as Duncan's castle in "City of Stone", and is also the current home to the Stone of Destiny (or at least, *a* Stone of Destiny).

LOCH NESS: We may not be as fortunate as Goliath, Elisa, Angela, and Bronx in getting a peek at Nessie, but it's still worth a visit. The tour could include a visit to the ruins of Urquhart Castle (which I suspect to be the real-life original of the ruined castle over Sevarius's headquarters in "Monsters").

SCONE: The pre-1296 home of the Stone of Destiny; we also know from Greg's "Once Upon a Time There Were Three Brothers" story that there used to be a gargoyle clan here (though evidently it didn't survive the gargoyle massacres conducted by Constantine and the early Hunters).

GLAMIS CASTLE: Castle Moray is most likely fictional, but Glamis Castle is associated with Macbeth thanks to his "Thane of Glamis" title in Shakespeare's play. The castle was built long after Macbeth's reign, of course, but has its own colorful history, including rumors of a monster hidden in a secret chamber.

ARBROATH ABBEY: The place to which Macbeth and his compatriots brought the Stone of Destiny after their 1950 theft (or retrieval) of it from Westminster Abbey, and where the Stone addressed Macbeth. The site, in 1320, of the Scottish leaders of the war of independence against England gathering to send a message to the Pope telling their side of the story, with such phrases as: "For as long as one hundred of us shall remain alive we shall never in any wise consent to submit to the rule of the English, for it is not for glory we fight, for riches, or for honours, but for freedom alone, which no good man loses but with his life". Small wonder that the Scottish patriots decided to bring the Stone here.

STIRLING: Its Gaelic name was "Sruighlea", after which the cell of gargoyles slaughtered by Constantine and Gillecomgain in 997 was named, so evidently this gargoyle massacre took place near here. Demona was too eaten up by revenge to give her fellow gargoyles a Wind Ceremony, but perhaps we can give them a belated moment of remembrance there. Stirling is also near the battlefield of Bannockburn, where Macbeth fought alongside his fellow Scots against the English in 1314.

COLDSTREAM: The site of the ColdTrio and Coyote's big fight, and from which the Coldstream Guards (one of Britain's most prestigious divisions in its armed forces) took its name.

IONA: This island off the western coast of Scotland was once the burial place for Scotland's early kings (according to tradition, Macbeth was among those buried here - though obviously not in the Gargoyles Universe!); Canmore ended the tradition since he decided to embrace a more Roman Catholic style of Christianity (probably the result of his years of exile in England - not to mention marrying an English princess who took refuge in Scotland following the Norman Conquest). The Stone of Destiny was kept here in Scotland's early days, once Merlin and King Pelles had finished using it for King Arthur's sword-in-the-stone feat.

There ought to be a real-life counterpart to Castle Wyvern on the list, for completeness, but unfortunately, its real-life original is Tintagel in Cornwall. But even without that, this should make a good list.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:22:21 am EST from 4.244.210.232

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