Comment Room Archive : Gargoyles : Station Eight

BLAISE - Whoa, I hadn't known that Forsythe did the voice of Pat Doyle! (Then again, I don't think that I paid much attention to the voice actors for the new characters in "The Goliath Chronicles"; in fact, I'm not certain that anybody here did. Nearly all the discussion in the comment room about "Ransom" focused on Fox's out-of-character depiction - and, to a lesser extent, on the ramifications of Doyle's raid on the Eyrie Building.)

BISHANSKY - Your remark about the Mafia living almost as if it was from another century reminded me of what you'd told me once about how the Mafia families are the closest thing in the modern world to the feuding royal dynasties of Shakespeare's history plays.

And I certainly think that there'll still be organized crime around in the New York of "Gargoyles" (though probably with someone other than Dracon calling the shots after "Turf"); it would provide some necessary variety from the gargoyles more fantasy or sci-fi-style opponents. (I think that Castaway will keep the Quarrymen from being involved in the syndicates, though, at least publicly - he wouldn't want to scare off people like Sarah Browne, who might rethink their membership in the Quarrymen if it was openly connected to organized crime. The syndicates would probably want the gargoyles out of the way for obvious reasons - but it would be awkward to have an alliance with a guy who's convinced himself that the gargoyles are malevolent demons and can't picture them as noble protectors and crime-fighters.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Sun, Apr 4, 2010 7:26:10 pm EDT from 4.244.214.37

****A giant bunny with a basket hops into the Room, takes an egg from its basket, leaves it on the floor, and then hops back out of the Room. The egg starts to shake. It cracks open, and a full size Blaise pops out.**** Dang, it was cramped in there.

Happy Easter to those who celebrate it!

TO EVERYONE WHO OFFERED CONDOLANCES FOR MY CAT> Thank you. I meant to say that earlier in the week, but I have had a full schedule. She was sweet (she even brought me a gift on my 21st birthday...granted it was a bird, but it was the thought that counted).

ANOTHER GARGOYLES VOICE ACTOR PASSES ON> John Forsythe has passed away at age 92.
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/apr/03/local/la-me-john-forsythe3-2010apr03
Although he only appeared in an episode of TGC (as crooked mayoral candidate Pat Doyle in "Ransom"), he nevertheless gave a worthy performance, and was an actor with an impressive career besides. I mean, he was the "Charlie" in "Charlie's Angels" for crying out loud! Well, now he is an angel. RIP.

WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IN FUTURE STORIES> Well, Timedancer is a pretty obvious one. I especially want to see Brooklyn and Katana's first meeting and the development of their relationship. Heck, I'd like a chance to get to know Katana, period.
And that leads into the next thing, one for the main series: new-Brooklyn, Katana as she is now, and Nashville. We got a brief glimpse of what Gnash is like (with his one line, his preference for his nickname, and his...whatever that little sword is called), but yeah, we need more of him than that. Also, what is Brooklyn like now that he's nearing middle age (and is armed to the teeth)? And what about Katana? As it is, she's new to the clan, and it will be interesting to see how she adjusts and gets on with everyone. There's also the fact that she's the only...well, "matron" gargoyle in the clan for the time being. Well, Coldfire may have some status there two, but...she's basically a possessed robot.
That's another thing: Coldstone and Coldfire. What will things be like with them there? Will they stay with the clan from now on, or will something make them leave again?
Next: Thailog's plans. We've gotten a taste of how Thailog will operate as the "Big Bad" but I'm still waiting for the next clash between him and the Clan.
Talon and Maggie's baby. In fact, they're going to get properly married, right? Let's see that, too.
And as Todd said: more of Greg Weisman's Quarrymen. Let's see them as normal people who think of the gargoyles as dangerous animals/cunning demons and want to protect themselves and others (and not feel "alone" while doing it), as opposed to the mustache twirling "let's-fake-a-mugging-so-we-can-trap-the-'gargoils'" villains they were in TGC.
I suppose there's a lot more I want to see (more Illuminati, the Ultra-Pack, etc.) but off the top of my head, those are all the big ones.

Until next time! ****Blaise takes a running leap at the wall...and crashes into it, landing in a heap on the floor. After getting up, he feels the wall, mutters something like "...forget my own head next," snaps his fingers and walks through the wall as though it weren't there.****
Blaise
posted @ Sun, Apr 4, 2010 5:12:46 pm EDT from 76.208.145.127

JURGAN> Thanks for the info, I've never actually read the book or seen the musical. But, I do remember Greg saying that Jean Valjean exists in the Gargoyles Universe.

Looks like the GargWiki is getting a new CiT entry.
Greg Bishansky
"Personally, when it comes to rights, I believe we have unlimited rights or no rights at all. Personally, I lean towards unlimited. I feel I have the right to do anything I please. But, if I do something you don't like, I think you have the right to kill me. Where will you find a fairer deal than that?
posted @ Sun, Apr 4, 2010 5:12:00 pm EDT from 68.199.5.105

No, I don't know much about organized crime.

I am familiar with the idea of power vacuums, though, and I was clearly wrong about there being no one to replace Dracon and Brod. I posted too hastily before.

On the other hand, I don't see any reason why the next crime boss couldn't come from the Pack or the Quarrymen, either.
Paul - [nampahcfluap at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Sun, Apr 4, 2010 3:20:14 pm EDT from 74.205.192.14

Frankly I wonder how much of Tony's rep as the top dog of New York's underworld is exaggerated. His criminal "empire" seems to consist entirely of himself, glasses and three other guys, plus his schemes seem rather small scale for a major crime lord. I couldn't imagine Tombstone lowering himself to harassing a grocery store clerk.

Based on what admittedly little I know about the Mafia's hierarchy, I'd figure Tony for a Capo. He's got his own crew and a fair bit of autonomy but there's still an upper echelon he's expected to answer to.
Algernon
posted @ Sun, Apr 4, 2010 2:54:19 pm EDT from 86.41.98.96

Supermorff> Glasses would have to start his own gang. Because there is no way in Hell the Dracon Family would ever let a black man be a leader in their Family. You'd have a better chance of winning the lottery while being struck by lightning and eaten by a shark in Death Valley.

In the Mafia, you need to be 100% Italian in order to be made. They need to be able to trace your family back to the old country. Both sides. Glasses can work for Dracon, he can be a close associate, but he can't be made.

Let's look at "The Godfather" for a moment. Tom Hagen was Don Corleone's consigliere, but he wasn't an actual member of the Corleone Family. Why? Because of his German-Irish ancestry.

Here's a scene from "True Romance" that sums up their attitude: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqccyUpnZwA

Yeah, gangsters are pretty bigoted people. They tend to live in another century altogether.
Greg Bishansky
"Personally, when it comes to rights, I believe we have unlimited rights or no rights at all. Personally, I lean towards unlimited. I feel I have the right to do anything I please. But, if I do something you don't like, I think you have the right to kill me. Where will you find a fairer deal than that?
posted @ Sun, Apr 4, 2010 1:19:22 pm EDT from 68.199.5.105

Happy Easter everyone

Lurker> I just wanted too see what people thought on them. This is the last anyone will her of them.

As far as Xanatos replacing Norman is concerned I was referring to the Thunderbolts, Secret Invasion, and Dark Reign. I didn't think about retconing but if Greg was in charge that wouldn't happen.

On another note Bruce Wayne is returning as Batman in May.
Merc with a Mouth
Wade Wilson
posted @ Sun, Apr 4, 2010 1:14:58 pm EDT from 75.118.125.132

You don't know much about organized crime, do you Paul?
Greg Bishansky
"Personally, when it comes to rights, I believe we have unlimited rights or no rights at all. Personally, I lean towards unlimited. I feel I have the right to do anything I please. But, if I do something you don't like, I think you have the right to kill me. Where will you find a fairer deal than that?
posted @ Sun, Apr 4, 2010 1:08:49 pm EDT from 68.199.5.105

Gilbert Aquino> trebligoniqua now has write access.

Organised crime> Didn't Greg once say he saw Glasses taking more of a leadership role? He'd be well placed to take over Dracon's operations, since he seems to have been pretty much running them even when Dracon wasn't in jail. And I bet it would aggravate Dracon to no end that Glasses has taken his spot.

Jean Valjean> That's a fantastic idea. Regarding his age, it's tempting to speculate that he might once have been a member of the Illuminati but disagreed with their methods and now seeks redemption for his part in helping them. Or maybe not.
Supermorff
posted @ Sun, Apr 4, 2010 1:06:45 pm EDT from 86.149.191.20

They've announced Gargoyles as the winner of the Cartoon Tournament: http://coffeecakeextravaganza.blogspot.com/2010/04/and-winner-is.html The bracket image with Gargoyles on top is pretty awesome. Thanks to everyone for voting!
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]
posted @ Sun, Apr 4, 2010 11:24:59 am EDT from 216.250.163.157

It's nonsense to think that the police are ever going to fully do away with organized crime. If there aren't people who were just waiting in the shaows for Dracon and Brod to be taken out of their way, I'd be very disappointed in the mafia.
Patrick
"And kids eat chocolate eggs, because of the color of the chocolate, and the color of the wood on the cross..." - Eddie Izzard
posted @ Sun, Apr 4, 2010 11:19:10 am EDT from 173.88.135.205

Hi. I am requesting write access for trebligoniqua...
Gilbert Aquino
posted @ Sun, Apr 4, 2010 11:18:56 am EDT from 71.225.142.56

Todd > And if Dracon's lost his influence, who'll succeed him as the big crime boss in the New York of "Gargoyles"?

The NYPD's goal in busting Dracon's and Brod's gang was to leave nobody around to replace them as Manhattan's organized crime syndicate. It's possible that they may have succeeded.

On the other hand, there are still petty thugs, and one of them may rise to power. (Some of them have even joined the Quarrymen, like Banquo, Fleance, and Chaz.)

Between Chaz's role in helping Fang take over the Labyrinth in "Kingdom" and his desire to take his hammer with him on Halloween night, I suspect that he might be involved in the next big crime syndicate in New York City, if there is one.
Paul - [nampahcfluap at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Sun, Apr 4, 2010 11:01:27 am EDT from 74.205.192.14

JURGAN - That's a fascinating possibility. I wasn't familiar enough with "Les Miserables" to know about that alias of Jean Valjean, but with Greg's mention of having plans for Valjean, it sounds tempting. (Though if Valjean is the Director's partner or superior, it raises the question of how he's still alive, when "Les Miserables" was set (and written) in the 19th century. Of course, we have a few other remarkably long-lived people in the Gargoyles Universe....
Todd Jensen
posted @ Sun, Apr 4, 2010 10:35:27 am EDT from 4.244.210.114

"Who is the Director working for? Why are they opposing the Illuminati? What do they want?"

Really, has no one figured out who the Director's boss is? I don't know for sure, but I guessed it immediately, and I'm pretty confident in it. The director refers to him as "Monsieur le Maire," a title that basically means "Mr. Mayor." Now, I don't believe the director of this well-funded international group is working for the mayor of Paris, or wherever. I'm inclined to think it's an honorary title. Anyone who's read or seen Les Miserables knows Jean Valjean was a mayor for a while, and even in many English translations he's referred to by the French "Monsieur le Maire." The director refers to him as such even when he's otherwise speaking English, and Greg has said he plans to include Valjean...

Incidentally, at first the idea of Jean Valjean in Gargoyles bugged me- I liked the idea of bringing in world myths whose origins are unknown, but incorporating fictional characters with known creators seemed like too much. However, I like the idea better after reading Les Miserables (well, some of it- it's a long book), since Hugo refers throughout to Valjean as someone who really exists. Presumably, that's just an authorial conceit, but it makes it fun to speculate on what the real man was like.
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Sun, Apr 4, 2010 8:49:55 am EDT from 71.204.227.228

I think that Demona will probably place the Atlantean crystal in another holy place (probably a church or cathedral in New York that hasn't been condemned - Notre Dame might be too far away this time) and wait for it to regenerate into another Praying Gargoyle; since that takes several decades, I don't think we'll see much of the crystal in the near future (unless her search for a holy place to store it in becomes the spark for a present-day adventure).

I'm curious to see how things will be for Dracon. In "The Silver Falcon" and "Protection", he was portrayed as out on the streets and running his organization, despite the crimes he'd committed in his most recent appearance, but in "Turf", he was stuck in prison, suggesting that his power and influence were waning; this time, his lawyers aren't so good at keeping him out of jail. So what condition will he be in when we next see him? Will he have lost nearly all his status in the organized crime world, forced to take orders from somebody else (he'd certainly find that humiliating)? And if Dracon's lost his influence, who'll succeed him as the big crime boss in the New York of "Gargoyles"?

As for the things that I'd especially like to see in "Gargoyles" if Greg Weisman gets to come out with more stories:

1. The Quarrymen. I've mentioned before that I'd like to see more of Greg's take on Castaway and his organization as an antidote to their depiction in "The Goliath Chronicles", though the glimpses of Castaway that we got in "Gargoyles" #3 and "Bad Guys" #3 were great. In particular, I'd like to see it stressed that the Quarrymen aren't Castaway's private army of mercenaries - as "The Goliath Chronicles" made the mistake of portraying them - but are mostly frightened citizens who joined him because they were afraid of the gargoyles and wanted to protect themselves, wanted to feel safe from the winged monsters. So Castaway isn't going to try any of those crazy schemes that his "Goliath Chronicles" counterpart pulled, which would scare those same ordinary people out of the Quarrymen (no matter how terrified they are of the gargoyles, how long will they stay if Castaway starts hauling heavy artillery into the city streets or attacking passenger trains?). It would make things trickier for the gargoyles, since these people coming after them aren't (with a few exceptions, like Banquo and Fleance) more of the criminals whom they've been protecting Manhattan from, but ordinary humans who believe the gargoyles to be the enemy.

I'd like to see more of King Arthur and Griff's adventures, especially involving the Illuminati. I've already mentioned my curiosity about how the Illuminati leadership balance their unscrupulous methods with the guardianship of the Holy Grail (which obviously can't approve - if it's anything like the Grail in Malory - of allying with organized crime or supporting the Gargoyles Universe's counterpart of the Ku Klux Klan), but the Illuminati's conflict with Arthur should be especially interesting - since Peredur is on Arthur's side, but has his own ideas about what Arthur should be doing that aren't likely to agree with what Arthur thinks he should be doing. That offers a more original and intriguing conflict than the straightforward "bad guy tries to do in the good guy".

I'd certainly like to see the criminal population of New York's response to all those new members in the clan - as I've mentioned before, I think their initial reaction to Fu-Dog is likely to be "When did those guys get a pet lion?" (That mane and tail are certain to give them that first impression.) Small wonder that the Pack will soon decide it's time to upgrade (and I still suspect that the Tazmanian Tiger will be a new member - I wonder if he'll bring his thylacines with him).

And like Bishansky, I'd also like to see Demona's response to the Quarryman and public exposure situation. (I still see her shouting at Goliath "This is all your fault! If you hadn't been so foolish as to smash the Praying Gargoyle, we wouldn't be facing this problem! But, no, once again, you had to protect the humans, and see how they repay you!")

All in all, I'd say we have enough story potential ahead for me to hope that Disney and SLG work out a good deal for more "Gargoyles" graphic novels that Greg Weisman can write.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Sun, Apr 4, 2010 7:50:42 am EDT from 4.244.209.208

Harlan: But most of all, I kinda wanna see Tony Dracon. I would really love to see Dracon's goons take on the new Manhattan Clan. The thought very much amuses me.

Heh, funny you should bring Dracon up . . . my brother and I randomly threw in a Gargoyles DVD and settled on "Protection" . . . Tony was already pretty jumpy in this episode the moment he saw Broadway and Goliath enter his suite . . .

Considering his previous interactions with Clan Manhattan in "Silver Falcon" and "Deadly Force" were also just Goliath and Broadway (can't remember if he saw any of the clan from his prison cell in "Turf") the thought amuses me as well d:
Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Sun, Apr 4, 2010 4:36:43 am EDT from 157.242.209.225

Going to come out of lurk mode a little more often for the next few weeks since the following 3 months I will be on the road and not able to follow the conversation anywhere near as much as now.

Merc> I read your alternate universes, as Im sure everyone else has. They are interesting thoughts but I wouldnt keep bringing them up. If someone wanted to comment on them, they would have. You have done this in the past and it never ends well. IM NOT TRYING TO BE MEAN, Im just offering some advice.

About Xanatos replacing Osborn, Greg W. has said he does not want Gargoyles to enter the Marvel Universe. I agree with that sentiment. With as much retconing that goes on in MU it would be disastrous to the GU. Plus, so much of what happens in Marvel is repeated so much it seem as if there is no progress. Jean dies, Jean Lives Jean Dies. . . Mutants lose powers, they get they back, lose them. . . You can see where I am going.

Enough on those topics.

Harlan> I am very interested in your deciding Matrix is your favorite Gargoyles character. Why is that? What about him made you choose him over all others? Before Bad Guys (I'm assumung thats what made you like him so much) who was your favorite character?
Lurker
posted @ Sun, Apr 4, 2010 2:01:21 am EDT from 99.70.98.71

Greg B.>"A story involving modern Demona. Don't get me wrong, I loved 10, 11, and 12. Seeing Demona again, albeit in the tenth century, was great. But, and especially following the Radio Play, I want to see what Demona is up to in 1997, what she plans to do with the Atlantean crystal, what she plans to do now that the gargoyles are public, and the Quarrymen are roaming the streets."

Would be neat to see. More inevitable than a robot programmed to be inevitable.

GB>"Katana and Gnash. I really want to get to know them both, and see how this new adult Brooklyn has changed from the old one."

Katana is sexy, so approved and cosigned.

GB>"Broadway and Angela need a story focusing on them. They kind of got the short end of the stick in Clan Building. Goliath and Elisa had a lot of spotlight time. Lexington and Hudson got a lot of spotlight time. So did Brooklyn. They need their own spotlight stories."

I can dig it.

GB>"Who is the Director working for? Why are they opposing the Illuminati? What do they want?"

I can wait. My only immediate curiosity about Bad Guys is Matrix, who I have decided is my favorite Gargoyles character ever.

Ever.

I'd like to see him more explored than anything else when it comes to Bad Guys, but I'd want it to happen at the proper time and not right away. But he's my immediate concern. The Director intrigues me, but I'm totally cool with his lack of known identity being a running little thing.

Paul>"as Greg B said, I'd like more information about King Arthur and Sir Griff, and I'd like to see more of the Redemption Squad. (In short, the "Pendragon" spinoff, and a continuation of the "Bad Guys" spinoff.)"

Pendragon would be pretty tight, though as fascinating as the Arthurian backdrop would be...I'd be in it totally for Griff. I'd love to get to know him more as a character and him as one of the leads is the series's major hook for me.

Daniel>"I haven't yet gotten to read Part 2 of the clan building, although it is on it's way to my house right now. But I am very curious about the adult Brooklyn, and what he's willing to share about the future and what not, not to mention how he's changed. Will Goliath ask Brooklyn is his nightmare comes true, especially given recent wardrobe choices?"

Interesting, though I think any drama that would come from Brooklyn knowing about the future would be his reluctance to say ANYTHING about it.

If we assume Brooklyn's visited the year 2198, the biggest confidence booster to a clan wanting to be accepted by humanity isn't going to be, "Uh, broseph, aliens are gonna shank our planet and people aren't gonna like us much."

Brooklyn'll probably want history to take its course. Though that's equally interesting.

Danny Boy>"Will we get to see that trial for Goliath's sentience?"

God, I hope so.

Though, me personally, the thing I want to see most is 2198. Just in general. Though I'm willing to wait, especially since Dark Ages is current spin off priority. And any story Weisman is dying to tell must be blowing to the mind and balls.

In terms of the main series...certainly Goliath's sentience trial. Definitely Katana and Gnash.

But most of all, I kinda wanna see Tony Dracon. I would really love to see Dracon's goons take on the new Manhattan Clan. The thought very much amuses me.
Harlan Phoenix
posted @ Sat, Apr 3, 2010 11:42:10 pm EDT from 76.2.91.207

Contest: Despite enthusiasm for both shows, I too am surprised how much of a landslide this has been all day -- I mean, I figured that there'd be some folks out there that'd vote for Looney Tunes simply because Gargoyles upset Family Guy, Cowboy Bebop, Duck Tales, The Simpsons, and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles . . . then again, maybe there were fans that are bitter for the losses from the Looney Tunes side of the bracket *shrug* In the end, outside the hopes that winning the extravaganza will convince a few people to try out the series, I also think it really added a fun element to the the comments this week -- it at least guaranteed and generated some discussion d:

Future Stories: Everything mentioned below I have one time or another voiced wanting to see happen next . . . but with the conclusion of "Clan Building" the story I'm most curious to see happen is the continued ventures of King Arthur and the Illuminati. The Stone of Destiny & Peredur deliciously teased us that Arthur most definitely woke up 200 years earlier and the Illuminati is going to need to track the Once and Future King down and attempt some 'damage control' . . . however THAT plays out.

Don't get me wrong . . . I will love to see more stories of the Manhattan Clan, which is the established focus of the series. Count me in also wanting to see a 40-year old Brooklyn (the scene in the Radio Play where the Trio reunite and realize how much things have changed -- and were already changing -- was probably one of the more subtle treats Greg gave us).

But Greg's sparked some major curiosity with issues 7,8,9 . . . and I can't wait for more (well, wait long enough for another issue/Trade Paperback to get published) :D
Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Sat, Apr 3, 2010 8:50:30 pm EDT from 157.242.222.69

I just saw these photoshopped designs for random Marvel characters for Spectacular Spider-Man on Youtube. Most of them are pretty good except for some(Doctor Doom).

Check out my alternate universes and tell me what you think.
Merc with a Mouth
Wade Wilson
posted @ Sat, Apr 3, 2010 8:00:57 pm EDT from 75.118.125.132

Greg B: No, you aren't the only one. I was very surprised myself as it was a rather difficult choice to choose Gargoyles over Looney Tunes. I still choose Gargoyles, but I think that wingless said it best on the contest page.

Anyway, you seemed to nail every possibility to see for the next story. I don't care that much about Broadway to be honest, since he was my least favorite character, although he did slowly grow on me as the series passed. Hopefully a new story about him will help him grow on me even more.

I haven't yet gotten to read Part 2 of the clan building, although it is on it's way to my house right now. But I am very curious about the adult Brooklyn, and what he's willing to share about the future and what not, not to mention how he's changed. Will Goliath ask Brooklyn is his nightmare comes true, especially given recent wardrobe choices? XD (Future Tense)

I want to find more about what's happening with the public. What will the Quarrymen do as time goes on? How are the police going to react? After torturing myself watching the 3rd season, I really want to see what Greg W. plans to do with the public's eye. Will we get to see that trial for Goliath's sentience?

By the way, do we have any idea time wise when the UltraPack will be formed?
Daniel
"Weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning." (Psalms 30:5)
posted @ Sat, Apr 3, 2010 7:49:15 pm EDT from 24.254.162.166

What do I want to see next? Well, besides more information about modern-day Demona, as Greg B said, I'd like more information about King Arthur and Sir Griff, and I'd like to see more of the Redemption Squad. (In short, the "Pendragon" spinoff, and a continuation of the "Bad Guys" spinoff.)
Paul - [nampahcfluap at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Sat, Apr 3, 2010 7:43:50 pm EDT from 74.205.192.14

Actually, the poll currently lists it as "Gaygoyles".

Must be that Lexington spin-off.
Patrick
"And kids eat chocolate eggs, because of the color of the chocolate, and the color of the wood on the cross..." - Eddie Izzard
posted @ Sat, Apr 3, 2010 7:10:10 pm EDT from 173.88.135.205

Okay, am I the only one surprised that "Gargoyles" is slaughtering "Looney Tunes?" Don't get me wrong, I voted for "Gargoyles" however, it almost feels wrong to me that we're winning by this wide a margin. I want us to win, of course, but I think this should be far more of a contest. Aw well, these aren't scientific polls, they are just for fun.

WARCRAFTER, TODD, and DANIEL> Thanks for the feedback on my little article. I plan to submit it to ASK GREG once it re-opens. It's an article that could have gone on forever as Demona as a character I could talk about ad nauseum.

So, my question to the room. Now that the Manhattan Clan has doubled in size, and truly been built, and now that the Redemption Squad has begun their question for... well, redemption, what are you most looking forward to seeing next? For me, it would have to be the following.

- A story involving modern Demona. Don't get me wrong, I loved 10, 11, and 12. Seeing Demona again, albeit in the tenth century, was great. But, and especially following the Radio Play, I want to see what Demona is up to in 1997, what she plans to do with the Atlantean crystal, what she plans to do now that the gargoyles are public, and the Quarrymen are roaming the streets.

Katana and Gnash. I really want to get to know them both, and see how this new adult Brooklyn has changed from the old one.

Broadway and Angela need a story focusing on them. They kind of got the short end of the stick in Clan Building. Goliath and Elisa had a lot of spotlight time. Lexington and Hudson got a lot of spotlight time. So did Brooklyn. They need their own spotlight stories.

Who is the Director working for? Why are they opposing the Illuminati? What do they want?
Greg Bishansky
"Personally, when it comes to rights, I believe we have unlimited rights or no rights at all. Personally, I lean towards unlimited. I feel I have the right to do anything I please. But, if I do something you don't like, I think you have the right to kill me. Where will you find a fairer deal than that?
posted @ Sat, Apr 3, 2010 6:57:22 pm EDT from 68.199.5.105

I voted again. Looks like we are way out in the lead. Woot! Has Greg W. Voted, I wonder?
Battle Beast - [Canada]
I have started a movie challenge whereby I am wtching all 475 Best Picture nominees and winners in 365 days. I am on Day #25 and movie #31... wish me luck!
posted @ Sat, Apr 3, 2010 4:23:00 pm EDT from 75.159.239.62

This is a tough choice. I mean, really tough. I would say that both of these were important to me growing up. Both of them, in their content, represent something I don't think we can really see in children's cartoons anymore. I have fond memories of watching both of them, and to be honest I haven't really outgrown either one of them.

But of the two, I would still have to go with Gargoyles, since it probably had the greater impact on me.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Man is what he is, a wild animal with the will to survive, and (so far) the ability, against all competition. Unless one accepts that, anything one says about morals, war, politics, you name it - is nonsense. Corrent morals arise from knowing what man is - not what do-gooders and well-meaning old Aunt Nellies would like him to be." -Robert Heinlein ("Staship Troopers")
posted @ Sat, Apr 3, 2010 2:49:13 pm EDT from 69.123.210.30

Phoenician> Thanks for the link to that story. Kinda neat. And the similiarities to Quincy Hemings are very interesting indeed.

The Finals> Alright, guys. We are down to Gargoyles vs. Looney Toons. Last push! Everybody vote today please. Thirteen hours left!
Matt - [ewoks11 at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Sat, Apr 3, 2010 9:00:12 am EDT from 76.217.239.172

Greg B> Nice read about Demona. I actually have other reasons for loving Demona, but no show and tell from me :)

contest> Something tells me Gargoyles has this in the bag, but who knows what could happen.

Oh, and one more thing. HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO ME! :D
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1 at sbcglobal dot net]
VAMPIRES DON'T SPARKLE!!!
posted @ Sat, Apr 3, 2010 12:08:52 am EDT from 64.211.93.116

It's not just you. It looks to me like Looney Tunes actually did beat South Park, 67% to 32%.

If not, then something is wrong with my computer.
Paul - [nampahcfluap at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:20:37 pm EDT from 74.205.192.14

Ok, must have read it wrong. Was sure Looney tunes was ahead. My bad.
Wingless
posted @ Fri, Apr 2, 2010 10:24:37 pm EDT from 99.245.254.123

Actually, it looks like it's going to be Gargoyles against Looney Tunes. That's a really tough choice. I love 'em both so much. Can we have a tie? ^_~
Wingless
posted @ Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:45:19 pm EDT from 99.245.254.123

Happy Easter, All!

I am sooooooo tickled that Gargoyles beat The Simpsons. The Final four is something to behold! Now, if it ends up Gargoyles vs. South Park... I don't know how I am going to vote... I like South Park more than Gargoyles... *GASP* BLASPHEMY! Probebly will vote for Gargoyles.

Quite recently, I have gotten A LOT of questions regarding my Gargoyles T-Shirt. This I like! Spreding the word, one shirt at a time...
Battle Beast - [Canada]
I have started a movie challenge whereby I am wtching all 475 Best Picture nominees and winners in 365 days. I am on Day #24 and movie #29... wish me luck!
posted @ Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:10:48 pm EDT from 75.159.239.62

Paul>I actually am curious about the show and check out episodes every now and then. I do like it.
Merc with a Mouth
Wade Wilson
posted @ Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:01:22 pm EDT from 75.118.125.132

It would be nice to think that someone somewhere would be convinced that Gargoyles was a great TV show based on how well it's doing in this tournament. I bet most of those who are puzzled by its success simply don't know that much about it, but that at least a few of them will become more curious about it.
Paul - [nampahcfluap at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Fri, Apr 2, 2010 5:47:47 pm EDT from 74.205.192.14

With six hours left to vote, Gargoyles still leads with an impressive lead, but the day is still young . . . kudos to Roger Riddle for vouching us fans throughout the week for being a dedicated fan base (albeit one he's unfamiliar with) as well as Landon Thomas who found the tournament and effectively spreading the word.

It's not much . . . DVDs and comics won't come with a winning the whole extravaganza, but we might just find a few old fans and convince a few others to try the series out. :)

On a tangental note, Eugene Allen, a White House Butler who served EIGHT American US Presidents died yesterday at age 90 . . . from the Washington Post:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/01/AR2010040103444.html?g=0

I don't have to tell you who from the comics he reminds me of, but his story is fascinating all on its own.
Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Fri, Apr 2, 2010 3:55:48 pm EDT from 70.190.58.163

On another note here are some cool alternate universes I've written

1, MC3( Marvel Comics 3 where things turn out differently for Spider-Man as well as other heroes no One More Day or Brand New Day and Back in Black is different cause there's no Civil War his son Richie is his eldest child and May is younger by two years they are Spider-Man and Spider-Girl

2. Age of Doom( where Doom takes over the world)

3. World War Three( A war started by Marvel super villains led by the Red Skull where Nitro exploded and started a world war between heroes and villains Captain America sacrifices himself to stop the Red Skull, the war ends, but superheroes and mutants are overlords to humans Norman Osborn convinces humans they're a threat and wants to depower but is stopped by Magneto who kills Osborn and turns everyone into mutants/superhumans making it the Age of Magneto.

4. Emperor Hulk(where Hulk rules Earth after winning World War Hulk but is eventually by a seperated Bruce Banner and leaves to be at peace and lead his "people"
Merc with a Mouth
Wade Wilson
posted @ Fri, Apr 2, 2010 3:26:48 pm EDT from 75.118.125.132

My last post had some typos because I typed fast just noticed it. What if anything Gargoyles became an official part of the Marvel Universe and he took Norman Osborn's place? I don't mean in the Clone Saga lol. Harlan Phoenix simply typing no doesn't make sense because it wasn't a yes or no question. You can state why you don't like that idea if you want. I don't care. It just came to me.
Merc with a Mouth
Wade Wilson
posted @ Fri, Apr 2, 2010 3:07:10 pm EDT from 75.118.125.132

1. We don't know.

2. No.
Harlan Phoenix - [harlanphoenix at live dot com]
posted @ Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:52:54 pm EDT from 76.2.91.207

Hey guys thought I'd stop by and ask some questions. I promise not to argue this time.

1. What's going on with Spectacular Spider-Man season 3? I'm getting worried.

2. What if anything Gargoyles an official part of the Marvel Universe and Xanatos took Norman's place? Formed the Thunderbolts, killed the Skrull Queen, behind Dark Reign etc.
Merc with a Mouth
Wade Wilson
posted @ Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:41:10 pm EDT from 75.118.125.132

Looks like Gargoyles beat the Simpsons. It's early yet, but it has the lead on Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles too.

http://coffeecakeextravaganza.blogspot.com/
Paul - [nampahcfluap at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:05:34 am EDT from 74.205.192.14

Regardless of language skill, Brentwood has demonstrated he can think for himself.
Harlan Phoenix
posted @ Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:42:51 am EDT from 76.2.91.207

Greg B: Ah, sorry about that. Thanks for the tip. I'll try to be more careful in the future.

Harlan: Yeah, you're right. I guess in my own imagination I like the notion of Lex being evil, but in terms of the way things are going, it's not going to happen that. But I'm happy with that, I do like where Brentwood is heading and can't wait to see Greg's plans for those two.

In my opinion, that panel where Lex says something like You'll make me look bad is just really scary because of how Lex has his Future Tense cyborg outfit on, which seems to be accurate to the last detail. Foreshadowing ftw!

Just from the random things around, I can tell he has some awesome long term plans for them. I can't wait to see what all those future Day in Gargoyles Universe History hints refer to. Honestly, I'm a little surprised that Lex is going into business in only 3 years.

At first I was worried about Brentwood's capabilities due to his almost robotic programming, but since Delilah has done well learning English, I guess that he will soon to. Also the non-canon 2009 play would suggest that he's inherited Lex's mechanical talents as well. Ah, so many open strings dangling...

Do I need to worry about spoiler tags here? I don't see anyone else bothering with them... Sheesh, I need to stop talking...
Daniel
"Weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning." (Psalms 30:5)
posted @ Thu, Apr 1, 2010 11:51:28 pm EDT from 24.254.162.166

But if Lex became evil, wouldn't Brentwood be pointless?

We don't want that. I love Brentwood.
Harlan Phoenix
posted @ Thu, Apr 1, 2010 11:15:38 pm EDT from 76.2.91.207

"I also hate the fact that he's gay, but I can deal with it since it's not officially cannon yet and probably won't be. It's just that way in the creator's mind. But that's another topic I don't want to get into."

Here's a suggestion. If you don't want to get into it, then don't bring it up. That's like saying "I hate the fact that Elisa is part black," but I don't want to get into it. Expect to get called on it.
Greg Bishansky
"Personally, when it comes to rights, I believe we have unlimited rights or no rights at all. Personally, I lean towards unlimited. I feel I have the right to do anything I please. But, if I do something you don't like, I think you have the right to kill me. Where will you find a fairer deal than that?
posted @ Thu, Apr 1, 2010 11:12:13 pm EDT from 68.199.5.105

Thanks Phoenician! *eats cookie* Ooohh, coconut chocolate chip, my favorite. Anyway, after beating Family guy and everything else so far, I think we'll have a really good chance against the turtles.

Darn, they mention Lex twice, but only one avi. I really wish I could see these things before posting. I was hoping for an evil Lex avi. I'm a bit different from most other Lex fans from what I've seen so far... I actually want him to become evil. :D Yes, twisted, I know. Future Tense Lex's "Gone bye bye" has got to be one of my favorite lines. I see the potential there for sure, considering how enraged he was in "Leader of the Pack". He was this close to shooting them all. Also his costume at the Halloween Party is a bit disturbing, I really wonder how the Goliath's nightmare will effect his relationship with Lex.

I also hate the fact that he's gay, but I can deal with it since it's not officially cannon yet and probably won't be. It's just that way in the creator's mind. But that's another topic I don't want to get into.

Dang, I just can't stop rambling... sorry about that.
Daniel
"Weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning." (Psalms 30:5)
posted @ Thu, Apr 1, 2010 10:53:08 pm EDT from 24.254.162.166

Daniel & Ian: Welcome to the CR! Have a cookie **offers random tray from the cookie table**

Contest: At 55% to 44% Gargoyles just took down and owned The Simpsons ^_^

Tomorrow we have a bunch of mutant turtles to take down d:
Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Thu, Apr 1, 2010 10:03:01 pm EDT from 70.190.58.163

Gotta love how the guy doing the contest is completely bewildered as to why Gargoyles is doing so well. Voted for Gargoyles of course

*eagerly hopes that the other Lex avatar is the Future Tense Lex*
Daniel
"Weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning." (Psalms 30:5)
posted @ Thu, Apr 1, 2010 4:25:01 pm EDT from 24.254.162.166

just wanted to say thank you thank you thank you for Gargoyles!! I can't be more happy and more appreciative for the series that touched my childhood. Bring on the live action movie!! XD thanks again Greg for impacting my childhood!!
Ian - [musicfann777 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Thu, Apr 1, 2010 3:29:01 pm EDT from 75.215.135.233

I think if Gargoyles wins over the Simpsons, we've really done our job here, but I can't see it in reality actually happening-considering the longevity and fanbase the Simpsons has(I'm certainly not one of them, but anyway). Gargs still rocks(pun intended).
Wingless
posted @ Thu, Apr 1, 2010 3:20:43 pm EDT from 99.245.254.123

Gargoyles over The Simpsons? Oh, that is no contest! Even though i like the simpsons (Season 1-10) I can't stand it recently. It's just gotten really stupid. They used to have good, funny, meaningful shows... well what can you expect after 22 years?
Battle Beast - [Canada]
I have started a movie challenge whereby I am wtching all 475 Best Picture nominees and winners in 365 days. I am on Day #24 and movie #28... wish me luck!
posted @ Thu, Apr 1, 2010 10:49:34 am EDT from 75.159.239.62

Gargoyles faces its toughest challenger yet! Gargoyles vs. the Simpsons in round 4: http://coffeecakeextravaganza.blogspot.com/
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]
posted @ Thu, Apr 1, 2010 10:11:09 am EDT from 128.101.32.234

Thanks for the Demona article, Bishansky. Much of the material in it was familiar to me from your posts here, but it was well worth reading.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, Apr 1, 2010 8:17:09 am EDT from 4.244.213.156

Dang there's alot of colors and avatars...wish I knew what they looked like XP

Anyway, yeah, I'm a new fan of Gargoyles, just recently watching the whole series on Youtube in about a weekend. I got alot of stuff on my mind to discuss, but that can wait.

Greg B: Wow, that's a great analysis of Demona. I love the multiple layers that she has. Although it's all anger and rage on the outside, you see so much beneath the surface that she won't admit. Small things like Puck showing how she still loves Goliath deeply, despite how she tries to kill him, or the moment when she says "What have I...what have THEY done?" Just like you said, rather being consumed with anger and committing genocide than admitting her faults.

Speaking of which, why do you suppose that they allowed the scenes of Demona blasting humans to bite in City of Stone when they never actually showed the Gargoyles getting maced in Awakenings? Just a thought...also, why do you suppose that bunch of fog coming in beneath the castle never broke the spell? It might not have risen, but it was above the clouds to some extent.

And boy am I glad you don't agree with her being redeemed by Angela. All that Angela has done is show forth one of Demona's many layers, bringing it out in front of her anger, albeit for a moment. It was quite a shocking moment for me, but still just a moment. Soon that layer of love will to be twisted (as it probably already has) into conforming with her maniacal mindset, just like how she tries to protect her other Gargoyles by killing humans, she'll do the same with Angela.

Thanks for your thoughts!

One last questions to Greg B, why do you seem to appear everywhere that Gargoyles fandom is? Just wondering. ;)
Daniel
"Weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning." (Psalms 30:5)
posted @ Wed, Mar 31, 2010 11:01:34 pm EDT from 24.254.162.166

I wrote an essay over in my blog. I've been asked before why I like Demona so much, just what the character represents for me, and I decided to jot it all down.

Hope you all like it.

http://gregxb.blogspot.com/2010/03/angel-of-night-lady-macbeth-demona.html

Though maybe I should have titled it "Confessions of a Former Demona Revisionist."
Greg Bishansky
"Personally, when it comes to rights, I believe we have unlimited rights or no rights at all. Personally, I lean towards unlimited. I feel I have the right to do anything I please. But, if I do something you don't like, I think you have the right to kill me. Where will you find a fairer deal than that?
posted @ Wed, Mar 31, 2010 8:25:53 pm EDT from 68.199.5.105

Has anyone else imagined Katana fighting like Sakura did against Sasori in Shippuuden? I of course mean fluid motion, would be awesome to see some wicked gargoyle slicing acrobatics. Of course the only thing separating gargoyles from a Japanese styled anime is the concept of not overpowering the characters, heh, Kyuubi Brooklyn, losing skin, RAWR! http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo161/mephistodin/122900730225.gif
Manhattan Metropolitan Sewer System
posted @ Wed, Mar 31, 2010 7:49:18 pm EDT from 129.71.73.243

With Easter only a few days away, I found myself wondering: how do you suppose the gargoyles would respond to all the interest in eggs humans display around this time of year, especially painted or dyed Easter eggs? (I have an image of Katana standing guard over Egwardo with a drawn sword, saying to anyone approaching with colors for decorating Easter eggs, "Don't even think about it". Though I'm not sure who that hypothetical person would be; I can't imagine the Xanatoses or Elisa seriously contemplating such an activity.)

(Another crazy Easter-related "Gargoyles" creativity demon: Brooklyn sees Bronx and Fu-Dog running about with an animal they'd caught. When he takes a closer look, he sees that it's a large rabbit that had been carrying a basket full of dyed or chocolate eggs. "Oh, boy.... Now we're really in for it....")
Todd Jensen
posted @ Wed, Mar 31, 2010 6:44:09 pm EDT from 4.244.208.180

Harvestor> Thanks for the info. Whats your opinion on Caprica, is that worth watching?
Lurker - [JohnR783 at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Wed, Mar 31, 2010 4:54:00 pm EDT from 99.70.99.38

Lurker: Good enough. Though I recommend the reimagined series that came out in the last decade, since it has a superior storyline to the 1978 series, which was nothing more than an attempt to cash in on the popularity of Star Wars. Every quote I've ever used in here is from the remake.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Teamwork is so overrated." -Thailog ("Sanctuary")
posted @ Wed, Mar 31, 2010 3:41:45 pm EDT from 76.27.173.29

I voted again. Damn, Transformers is loosing! I liked Duck Tales, but it never had any chance agaisnt Gargoyles!
Battle Beast - [Canada]
I have started a movie challenge whereby I am wtching all 475 Best Picture nominees and winners in 365 days. I am on Day #22... wish me luck!
posted @ Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:42:26 pm EDT from 75.159.239.62

Disney Afternoon Throwdown! Voting is up for Gargoyles vs. DuckTales in Sweet Sixteen: http://coffeecakeextravaganza.blogspot.com/
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]
posted @ Wed, Mar 31, 2010 10:23:48 am EDT from 128.101.32.234

@Algernon - Yes, there was a CG series called "Voltron: The Third Dimension" which aired back in 1998. And according to the gentlemen at tvshowsondvd.com, thre is a DVD release slated for "The Third Dimension" this summer.
Anthony Tini
posted @ Wed, Mar 31, 2010 8:47:35 am EDT from 159.240.11.254

Contest> Sorry, but I also saw this comment from the head guy in the Round 1 comments:

"The Gargoyles fans called in for back up. I noticed someone from inside Fox even stopped by the website but they must have underestimated the strength of the Gargoyles fan base.

That made my day ^_^

If I'm in the mood for manatee jokes, I'll leave Family Guy on (it DOES happen, I won't deny it), but let's just say South Park's Cartoon Wars was epic d:
Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:24:38 am EDT from 70.190.58.163

Harvester> I know its from BSG but I will admit I have seen nary an episode of either incarnation. I always intended to but I dont watch much tv. I do plan on watching on DVD when I get the chance. To be honest, the various comments and quotes you made at the Gathering made me want to watch it a bit more than I already did.

About the poll. I was looking at the numbers and there is only one show that garnered more votes than Gargoyles; it was The Simpsons. The good news is that it was a mere 7 vote difference. I admit this early on in the bracket it is difficult to predict how people will vote if their allegiance is tested, but Gargoyles can take it.
Lurker - [JohnR783 at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:50:07 am EDT from 99.70.99.38

DuckTales is great. It's sad that it will lose to Gargoyles, but there can be only one winner, right?

I really hope we are able to rally the fandom on this one. Every victory counts.
Matt - [ewoks11 at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:15:51 am EDT from 76.217.239.172

Matt: haha, I wonder what he'll say tomorrow when he sees Cowboy Bebop is no more? Better yet, I wonder if he'll vote for Duck Tales tomorrow (which handily defeated his pick of Peanuts in the latest round)?

I was actually away from the computer all day and unable to vote for Round 2 (I too love Bebop, but Gargoyles is the obvious choice). I'll be sure to make a stop by the site tomorrow . . .

It is unscientific, but it sure is fun :D
Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:04:08 am EDT from 70.190.58.163

Ya gotta love what the guy running this poll had to say about Gargoyles:

"Big surprise of the day was Gargoyles fans turning out in big numbers to support their show. Can they keep it moving against anime favorite Cowboy Bebop? We'll see."

And:

"Can't say I know anything about Gargoyles other than it has some sort of cult following."

Damn right.
Matt - [ewoks11 at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Tue, Mar 30, 2010 11:33:14 pm EDT from 76.217.239.172

ALGERNON> We're not talking about real history so much as we're discussing the Gargoyles Universe. In the GU, if the Radio Play is right, the one that Hitler had was the real thing.

That, and it makes for a more interesting story anyway. And there is enough debate on what Hitler thought that Greg is well within reason to say that the GU Hitler was into the occult. He was in the Indiana Jones trilogy, and Hellboy, and countless other works of fantasy.
Greg Bishansky
"Personally, when it comes to rights, I believe we have unlimited rights or no rights at all. Personally, I lean towards unlimited. I feel I have the right to do anything I please. But, if I do something you don't like, I think you have the right to kill me. Where will you find a fairer deal than that?
posted @ Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:35:28 pm EDT from 68.199.5.105

GREG B> Considering that the "Spear of Destiny" owned by Hitler was a relic of the Germanic Holy Roman Empire, it's just as likely that he simply wanted it for the prestige and bragging rights. Even without the supernatural powers, the real spear that pierced Jesus's side would be a priceless historical artifact of near incalculable value.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Lance#Vienna_Lance_.28Hofburg_spear.29
Algernon
posted @ Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:29:09 pm EDT from 86.40.250.165

ALGERNON> I think it's clear that Hitler in the "Gargoyles Universe" did:

"A simple wooden shaft. The prize of Adolph Hitler's personal collection. After his... demise, his remaining followers smuggled it to Brazil. I paid handsomely to have it smuggled to me."

... Not canon, but come on.
Greg Bishansky
"Personally, when it comes to rights, I believe we have unlimited rights or no rights at all. Personally, I lean towards unlimited. I feel I have the right to do anything I please. But, if I do something you don't like, I think you have the right to kill me. Where will you find a fairer deal than that?
posted @ Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:10:01 pm EDT from 68.199.5.105

I'm still not convinced Hitler had as much belief in the supernatural as you guys are ascribing to him. That said, if he thought Demona could be useful to him he'd probably be willing to work with her. All the while plotting to hand her over to Joseph Menegele for dissection once she'd served her purpose. This was pretty much the same attitude he took towards Stalin, which of course came back to bite him in the ass big time.
Algernon
posted @ Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:44:35 pm EDT from 86.40.250.165

That's a good point. You can never underestimate a Messiah complex.
Harvester of Eyes
"You've lost sight of the purpose of the law: to protect its citizens, not persecute them. Whatever we are, whatever's left of us, we're better than that." -Commander Adama ("Battlestar Galactica")
posted @ Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:44:29 pm EDT from 70.177.182.14

TODD> What if he thought Demona was an angel. >;)
Greg Bishansky
"Personally, when it comes to rights, I believe we have unlimited rights or no rights at all. Personally, I lean towards unlimited. I feel I have the right to do anything I please. But, if I do something you don't like, I think you have the right to kill me. Where will you find a fairer deal than that?
posted @ Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:38:56 pm EDT from 68.199.5.105

Would Hitler have accepted Demona's help? Or would he have immediately responded to her arrival with a tone of "Kill the monster, kill the monster!"?
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:34:16 pm EDT from 4.244.214.42

Harvester> Thank you, I was beginning to suspect this topic was too "heavy" for some people.

I also tend to look at it like this, Demona worked with Canmore. This guy was wearing the mask of the Hunter. To a gargoyle, those three red scars have got to be just as bad as the swastika. So, I don't think she'd have any qualms about working with "der Fuhrer" if she felt she had something to gain. She has before.
Greg Bishansky
"Personally, when it comes to rights, I believe we have unlimited rights or no rights at all. Personally, I lean towards unlimited. I feel I have the right to do anything I please. But, if I do something you don't like, I think you have the right to kill me. Where will you find a fairer deal than that?
posted @ Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:59:50 pm EDT from 68.199.5.105

Lurker: But how well do you know the source of the word?

Going back into last week for a moment, I think it would be amusing if Demona had allied with Hitler during World War II, if only because it fits her two faced nature very well. On the one hand, she tells Brooklyn she's seen horrors that would blast the soul. And on the other hand, if she worked alongside the orchestrator of the Holocaust, lines like that take on great irony. So if she had worked with Hitler, that would fit her character well.
Harvester of Eyes
"You've lost sight of the purpose of the law: to protect its citizens, not persecute them. Whatever we are, whatever's left of us, we're better than that." -Commander Adama ("Battlestar Galactica")
posted @ Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:53:22 pm EDT from 70.177.182.14

LURKER - Bad spelling and typos are, unfortunately, widespread on the Internet.

A STORY THAT WILL NEVER APPEAR IN "TIMEDANCER", NO MATTER HOW MANY EPISODES OF IT GREG WEISMAN GETS TO MAKE FOR IT SOMEDAY.

Brooklyn finds himself in Scotland in the early 1990's, and there befriends a woman named Joanne, whom he shares some of his adventures with, including his first Timedancing exploit, in Scotland in 997. When he tells her about Brother Valmont, she takes particular interest in him, saying that she's writing a story with an evil wizard in it, and could she use the name "Valmont" for him, please? Brooklyn thinks it unwise (maybe there *is* a link between Valmont and Duval, as Greg Bishansky theorized, Brooklyn's discovered it, and doesn't want to draw the Illuminati's attention to Joanne), but suggests that she alter it - still having it start with a "V" and end with a "t", but change the letters in between around. Joanne also, as a small tribute to his means of Timedancing, decides to put in a few favorable references to phoenixes, while Brooklyn is whisked off on his adventures again....
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:45:03 pm EDT from 4.244.214.42

I just voted. Here are the results with 4 hours left open.

Cowboy Bebop: 26%
Gargoyles: 73%

SNAPS!

But that fraker spelled it as Gargoles. Blurgh.

(I dont think he's a fraker, I just wanted to use that word.)
Lurker - [JohnR783 at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Tue, Mar 30, 2010 5:36:34 pm EDT from 99.70.99.38

I love "Cowboy Bebop!" I absolutely love it. It's a fling that I love to re-visit. However, "Gargoyles" is the steady. "Gargoyles" is the primary.

Actually, I wonder if there is a way to get them both into a threesome. I had my "Gargoyles" and "Spectacular Spider-Man" threesome last summer.

;)
Greg Bishansky
"Personally, when it comes to rights, I believe we have unlimited rights or no rights at all. Personally, I lean towards unlimited. I feel I have the right to do anything I please. But, if I do something you don't like, I think you have the right to kill me. Where will you find a fairer deal than that?
posted @ Tue, Mar 30, 2010 5:23:13 pm EDT from 68.199.5.105

Didn't they already do a Voltron revival a couple of years back? It was CGI if I recall correctly.
Algernon
posted @ Tue, Mar 30, 2010 5:14:09 pm EDT from 86.40.159.232

I voted, too. Although I don't "hate" Family Guy, I haven't watched it in a while... I've been too busy lately watching movies... I have voted again for Gargoyles. CAN't say I've ever seen more than 2 minutes of "Cowboy," but I still love Gargoyles more.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
I have started a movie challenge whereby I am wtching all 475 Best Picture nominees and winners in 365 days. I am on Day #20... wish me luck!
posted @ Tue, Mar 30, 2010 4:33:47 pm EDT from 75.159.239.62

Speaking of cartoons, Voltron fans have probably heard the recent news that a new animated series - "aimed at kids, with some fresh elements, but also paying respect to the original series" - is in the works to begin broadcasting on NickToons this coming fall. And of course the plans are still moving forward for a 2011 theatrical bow of a live-action Voltron film!
Anthony Tini
posted @ Tue, Mar 30, 2010 2:42:51 pm EDT from 159.240.11.254

I voted. The guy doing hte poll admits he doesn't know Gargoyles from a hole in the wall. Nice. Try to watch both - then vote.
Wingless
posted @ Tue, Mar 30, 2010 1:52:24 pm EDT from 99.245.254.123

CARTOON CONTEST> I despise "Family Guy," and for that matter, every cartoon that Seth MacFarlane has ever produced. So I was really happy to see "Gargoyles" beat it in the unscientific internet poll.

However, I adore "Cowboy Bebop." It is a terrific series. That being said, my vote easily went to "Gargoyles" again. No contest.
Greg Bishansky
"Personally, when it comes to rights, I believe we have unlimited rights or no rights at all. Personally, I lean towards unlimited. I feel I have the right to do anything I please. But, if I do something you don't like, I think you have the right to kill me. Where will you find a fairer deal than that?
posted @ Tue, Mar 30, 2010 12:10:36 pm EDT from 68.199.5.105

Cartoon Contest> The good news that, thanks to Landon getting the word out, Gargoyles survived the first round. The bad news is that it's now up against Cowboy Bebop and even I have a hard time picking between those two.

Ink and Pixel Club> I don't usually promote my new articles in here beyond my signature link, but this week's piece is a review of The Secret of Kells, a film that I think Gargoyles fans would enjoy, particularly if you really liked "The Hound of Ulster."
Demonskrye - [<---The Secret of Kells at The Ink and Pixel Club]
posted @ Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:57:27 am EDT from 146.115.115.75

Phoenician> Interestingly enough both Malone and Quincy seem much biologically older then either Peredur or Blanchefleur, which suggests that whatever rejuvenation drugs most members get aren't on par with whatever treatment the Carbonek gang are getting.
Algernon
posted @ Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:07:43 am EDT from 86.41.123.74

Thanks for the link, Landon. I voted!
Rebel
posted @ Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:01:37 am EDT from 69.134.199.200

Whoops, real link: http://coffeecakeextravaganza.blogspot.com/
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]
posted @ Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:45:21 am EDT from 216.250.163.157

We upset Family Guy in Round 1 of the Cartoon Tournament! Gargoyles is up against Cowboy Bebop in Round 2: http://is.gd/b5BT1

I think this is a decent promotional tool, IMHO. The numbers are small enough that we can affect the results, but still reach dozens of potential new fans.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]
posted @ Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:44:56 am EDT from 216.250.163.157

I probably did jump to conclusions about the Illuminati specifically knowing about the Space-Spawn, but they certainly *do* know (somehow) that a major problem will develop in 2198 that King Arthur would need to be awakened for.

(I've sometimes wondered whether, through the present-day events in the Gargoyles Universe involving Goliath's clan, Matt, King Arthur, and the Redemption Squad, the Illuminati might receive some sort of shake-up that leads to their losing some of their information - say, a severing from their connections to Carbonek. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Illuminati leadership in 2198 is different from that of the present-day, with Peredur, Duval, and Blanchefleur no longer part of the Society.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:17:21 am EDT from 4.244.208.90

Greg Bishansky > Blanchefleur is probably decent too. Decent enough to help King Arthur and Sir Griff (presumably against the rest of the Illuminati), anyway.
Paul - [nampahcfluap at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Tue, Mar 30, 2010 12:29:17 am EDT from 74.205.192.14

Going through the known members, is it possible that the Norman Ambassador is still alive too?

Mace Malone and Quincy Hemmings may just be past the age that's believable (well, now just Quincy, but both were from the 20th century), but its clear from the Castle Carbonek folk that members can live a really long time . . .
Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:17:42 pm EDT from 70.190.58.163

The Illuminati aren't specifically preparing for the Space-Spawn invasion in 2198. Though they seem to have the date down, I don't think they know exactly what the threat is. According to the Gargoyles 2198document: "Many of the world leaders abducted by the Space-Spawn were secretly members of the Illuminati -- proof that the Society definitely did NOT have advanced warning of the invasion." So I don't think we know exactly what Peredur thinks Arthur is supposed to wake up for in two hundred years.
Phil - [p1anderson at go dot com]
posted @ Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:47:13 pm EDT from 67.36.57.91

There is one obstacle that I've seen to the theory that Duval and Valmont are the same guy; Valmont got his right hand chopped off at the Battle of Rathveramoen, but Duval's left hand is the cybernetic one. (Although Duval keeps his right arm lowered throughout his scene in "Rock of Ages" so that we can't see his right hand....)

Thailog probably joined the Illuminati to increase his power and influence.

To be fair to Hemings, we don't know exactly when he started working at the White House, beyond it being at some point during Theodore Roosevelt's administration; it might not have been directly after McKinley was shot. (We also know from "Ask Greg" that Hemings was born in 1900, so he would have been only a baby at the time that the assassination took place.) Though the timing of his promotion to Chief Steward is certainly suspicious (especially in light of how many conspiracy theorie the Kennedy assassination attracts).

The Illuminati certainly think (at least, those who know what the Carbonek trio's plans for the Society are - Falstaff presumably knows or can guess at them) that they're saving the world - and since their goal is apparently to guard against the Space-Spawn invasion of 2198, they have a point there. But even that isn't enough to justify their methods (not to mention that we know from Greg's plans for "Gargoyles 2198" that when the Space-Spawn *do* invade, the Illuminati turn quisling and help them).
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:47:04 pm EDT from 4.244.211.95

Duval & Peredur> I am actually beginning to wonder if Peredur is a clone of Duval, albeit a magically created one (and younger)... is there a precedent in fantasy? Maybe "Peredur" somehow remains sinless in order to keep using the Grail.

I am reasonably sure that Duval is the one who is really running things. He seems to be the one the others report to, and refer to. Peredur kind of seems aloof and detached from it all.

Well, that's the idea I ass-pulled today. LOL.

But, yeah, let's take a look at the Illuminati members that we are aware of:

Peredur: He is almost a blank-slate, we know nothing about him.

Duval: He's still Sir Percival, we now know this. He also seems to be a bit of a bastard. I am still convinced that he and Brother Valmont are one and the same, so we know he has a history of being a power hungry creep. I am convinced that he is calling the shots, and Peredur is a figure head of some sort.

Blanchefleur: We don't know much about her except that she can't stand Duval. Certainly seems like an estranged wife to me. Greg also said that she is Peredur's wife.

Quincy Hemings: Someone else we don't know much about, except that he entered the White House following an assassination, and he became Chief Stewart following another assassination. I doubt either are a coincidence.

Shari: I think we've all long since figured who she is. Now, what is she doing in the Society? Why is she with Thailog? Only Greg knows, but there is just something about her that makes me believe she isn't one of the good guys either.

Martin Hacker: He works for the FBI, he's in the loop just enough to lie to lower ranking members on behalf of the Society, and he doesn't seem to mind doing it.

David Xanatos: I don't think I need to elaborate.

Matt Bluestone: Probably the only decent person in the Society that we have met yet. They've got to know he wants to expose them, but I think they've got him right where they want him.

John Castaway: Again, I don't need to elaborate.

Thailog: Ditto. Although I do wonder why he's a member.

Fiona Canmore: She's one of the Hunters, and I do suspect she was Jon's contact following the events of "Hunter's Moon." I wish we knew what rank she was.

Falstaff: The self described king of thieves, and a murderer. But I get a feeling that in his mind, he is helping to save the world.

Mace Malone: A gangster. A criminal. Nothing more, nothing less.

And while they're apocryphal, in the Radio Play Tombstone and Chameleon were members of the Illuminati. One controlled most of the crime in New York, the other was a master of disguise and super-spy and mercenary. I would not be surprised if two people like this are members in the "Gargoyles Universe."

So, aside from Matt Bluestone, and probably Blanchefleur, there is not a single member we've met who seems to approach being what most would call a decent human being. If Demona weren't trying to wipe out humanity, she'd probably be a member as well.

And Peredur, I'm not sure if he is what we could consider a real human being.
Greg Bishansky
"Personally, when it comes to rights, I believe we have unlimited rights or no rights at all. Personally, I lean towards unlimited. I feel I have the right to do anything I please. But, if I do something you don't like, I think you have the right to kill me. Where will you find a fairer deal than that?
posted @ Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:18:55 pm EDT from 68.199.5.105

Wingless >> I thought the same thing... It's bad enough this person doesn't know what David the Gnome is... Looney Tunes vs. Gummi Bears really threw me off because I like both...
The One Known As Mochi - [shogi dot keima dot 08 at gmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>**)> Back home from a trip to Las Vegas... It was fun, but now I'm really tired...
posted @ Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:12:08 pm EDT from 72.199.80.182

Landon Thomas: who in the hell picked the pairings in that contest? did they do it blindfolded with a dart board? geeez. Looney tunes against Gummi Bears? Cowboy Bebop Vs Woody Woodpecker? The Simpsons Vs Rainbow Brite? Aeon Flux Vs Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles? Tom & Jerry Vs. Strawberry Shortcake? Yikes. Blindfolded & dartboard for sure.
Wingless
posted @ Mon, Mar 29, 2010 5:55:32 pm EDT from 99.245.254.123

PAUL> I believe the Hollow Hill merely kept Arthur in the magical equivalent of suspended animation, so now that he's up and about he's probably just as mortal as you or I.
Algernon
posted @ Mon, Mar 29, 2010 5:16:38 pm EDT from 86.41.115.242

I don't know what this site is, but I do know that Gargoyles is losing to Family Guy by 25 votes and that can't stand: http://coffeecakeextravaganza.blogspot.com/ Five hours left to vote on Round 1. Represent!
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]
posted @ Mon, Mar 29, 2010 4:15:14 pm EDT from 128.101.32.234

Is King Arthur's immortality similar to Macbeth's immortality, or will he age like an ordinary mortal now that he's awake again?

Part of me is tempted to think that 200 years are nothing to an immortal, but do we know whether Arthur is still immortal now that he's awake?
Paul - [nampahcfluap at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Mon, Mar 29, 2010 4:07:49 pm EDT from 74.205.192.14

TODD> It's also possible that the Grail is penalising Peredur and co. in some way that isn't immediately obvious to us. Ironically enough their appearant immortality might itself be a kind of punishment. From what we've seen eternal life doesn't seem to have a healthy effect on a mortal's state of mind, just look at Demona and Macbeth. If Peradur and Blanchefleur still subscribe to a Christian theology it might be doubly horrific for them, as they might believe themselves eternally barred from the Kingdom of Heaven and therefore effectively damned.
Algernon
posted @ Mon, Mar 29, 2010 2:27:09 pm EDT from 86.40.240.237

Tenth!
Phil - [p1anderson at go dot com]
posted @ Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:00:03 am EDT from 69.131.42.43

9th.

I thought I'd post some more about the Illuminati and the Grail, to continue my thoughts on it from last week.

As many of you know, I've long been intrigued by the Illuminati's links to the Holy Grail, ever since Greg revealed that the Illuminati's leader was the Fisher King, the title of the Holy Grail's keeper. In Malory, the Grail was depicted as the font of purity; only those who had lived the cleanest of lives could achieve it. Even Sir Lancelot, though a man of great nobility, was barred from it because of his affair with Queen Guinevere. The Grail's standards were clearly high.

Now, what we already know about the Illuminati Society in the Gargoyles Universe is not promising. First, a lot of the individual members whom we've met are clearly corrupt. We have:

Xanatos, an amoral, scheming businessman.
Thailog, Goliath's even more amoral (almost malevolent) clone.
Castaway, a madman bent on slaughtering every gargoyle in the world to avoid facing the responsibility for his crippling his older brother Jason.
Falstaff, a thief and murderer.
The late Mace Malone, a gangster.

These are just individual members, of course, mostly lower-echelon (Xanatos, Thailog, and Castaway are all on the bottom rung of the Society's hierarchy; we don't know the precise ranks of Malone or Falstaff), and their nature does not necessarily mean that the Illuminati as a whole are corrupt (though any organization that would admit people like these into its ranks clearly isn't concerning itself too much about right and wrong). But the actions of the Illuminati aren't promising, either. We know that they:

Operate the Hotel Cabal
Are silent partners with organized crime, blackmailing the syndicates to receive a share of tjeir profits
Are funding the Quarrymen, and are certainly after the gargoyles for some reason, probably not a good one
Stole a national treasure (the Stone of Destiny)

In fairness to the Society, we also know what its long-term goal is (apparently): to prepare for King Arthur's anticipated return in 2198 when the Space-Spawn attack would bring about Britain's (and the world's) greatest hour of need. (Of course, thanks to Elisa, that goal has been disrupted.) But even though the goal itself is worthy, the means used to achieve it are certainly not, and "Gargoyles" never took an attitude of "the end justifies the means" (witness how Goliath's kidnapping of Sevarius to obtain a cure for the Mutates was portrayed). And the methods that the Illuminati have used certainly sound like the kind of things that would bar a person from the Holy Grail. Yet three of the highest-ranking members of the Illuminati (Peredur, presumably "No. 1", Duval, one of the two Number Twos, and Blanchefleur, a Number Three) are present in Carbonek, the Grail's castle, in a way that suggests it to be their natural home and headquarters.

So how is it that the Grail has not rejected them and cast them out of Carbonek? I've thought about it, and considered a few possibilities, though I'm not certain how likely they are:

1. The upper-echelon members are unaware of, and did not give their consent to, a lot of the Society's doings; in this scenario, such activities as the founding of the Hotel Cabal and the support of the Quarrymen were carried out by lower-echelon members, without Peredur and his immediate circle knowing about it. The evidence is against this, however; Peredur, Duval, and Blanchefleur were all certainly involved in the theft of the Stone of Destiny (even if they let Xanatos do all the dirty work and only received the stolen goods from him - and receiving stolen property's also a crime), and certainly Duval and Blanchefleur know that Xanatos, at least, is a member and have consented to his admission. And if the people at the top are that unaware of what the Society's doing, then they'd have to be considered hopelessly incompetent, which certainly seems unlikely here.

2. The "clean living" stricture may only apply to those seeking the Holy Grail on quest, not to its guardians. In Malory and his immediate source, the French Vulgate "Quest of the Holy Grail", the objective of the Grail Quest is not to find the Grail as if it was a simple magical treasure, but to learn its true significance, its spiritual meaning; it's more a walkabout than a conventional quest. Peredur and his associates are clearly not embarking on that kind of quest, and so the strictures may not apply to them, as they did to the knights of the Round Table. (And as I mentioned last week, the guardians of the Holy Grail in the medieval romances often behaved in questionable ways - such as King Pelles setting up the conception of Galahad.)

3. The Grail may be less concerned with right and wrong, or purity, in the Gargoyles Universe than in Malory. We know already that Malory's account of Arthur's reign is not entirely accurate in the Gargoyles Universe; for example, in Malory's description of the Grail Quest, the Holy Grail was taken up to Heaven forever after Sir Galahad achieved it, and Percival became a hermit, dying not long afterwards. We know that both are untrue in the Gargoyles Universe; the Grail is still on Earth and Percival (whether Duval, Peredur, or in some strange way, both) is still alive. So perhaps the Grail's character is not quite the same in the Gargoyles Universe. (We do know that it must be sentient, from its exchange of greetings with the Stone of Destiny.)

At any rate, it's a mystery, and I hope that if Greg Weisman gets to tell more "Gargoyles" stories, we may get some further light shed on the subject.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:08:12 am EDT from 4.244.214.100

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