Comment Room Archive : Gargoyles : Station Eight

JURGAN> <<(though I'm not sure why you're so convinced that Valmont and Duval are the same- the hand Valmont lost isn't the same one we saw Duval missing, which doesn't prove it either way)>>

That could have been a mistake with the art. From what I've heard from Robby Bevard, Ben Dunn (who drew #12) has trouble following scripts to the letter.

On the other hand, we didn't see Duval's other hand in Carbonek.
Greg Bishansky - [<----- Make a real "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!]
Make a real "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!
posted @ Sun, Aug 29, 2010 8:56:59 pm EDT from 68.199.5.105

Very interesting speculation, Greg. That could certainly be the case (though I'm not sure why you're so convinced that Valmont and Duval are the same- the hand Valmont lost isn't the same one we saw Duval missing, which doesn't prove it either way). It would certainly lead to some good conflict within the ranks as well as without.

Of course, I remember when we were convinced that the Illuminati were leaving the #1 spot open for Arthur to claim, and that theory has been Jossed. So I'm not getting too attached to any speculation.
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Sun, Aug 29, 2010 8:53:16 pm EDT from 71.204.227.228

Greg X: Ah, that makes sense. As much as I have synthesized virtually all of the canon and canon-in-training posted on AskGreg, I'm always gonna be a couple steps behind yeh Gathering regulars. XD

I guess the natural follow-up then is who exactly Peredur thinks Duval is. Duval is pretty clearly a highly intelligent man (based on the scope of his plans that we've seen so far), and so I find it difficult to believe that any "extension" of his essence wouldn't ask these sorts of questions. Obviously of course he must have some sort of satisfactory lie to offer (or multiple ones, as necessary), but I am curious as to what it could be.
Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"Meet the new boss, same as the old boss!" - Roger Daltrey of The Who
posted @ Sun, Aug 29, 2010 8:52:06 pm EDT from 134.173.91.188

BISHANSKY - I thought of your theory as, in some ways, "Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde", if they both existed at the same time in separate bodies rather than switching back and forth.

It reminds me of one of the speculations I'd had about the Illuminati leadership in the past, ever since Greg Weisman revealed that Duval was the Fisher King. I'd wondered then how you can be both guardian of the Holy Grail *and* head of a secret society that gets up to a lot of unscrupulous activities and has admitted people who wouldn't have any hope of ever achieving the Holy Grail (and the comics have added to this impression all the more), and at one point I'd speculated that Duval was being kept in the dark about things like the Quarrymen, the Hotel Cabal, the deals with organized crime, etc. It seems clearly unlikely now that Duval's ignorant of those matters (or of the kind of members that the Society has been recruiting - as in Xanatos, Thailog, Mace Malone, Castaway, Falstaff, etc.) - but maybe Peredur's being kept in the dark by Duval in an "If the Tsar only knew" scenario.

But this is still just a guess, of course.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Sun, Aug 29, 2010 8:46:27 pm EDT from 4.244.208.106

MASTERDRAMON> I believe Greg mentioned at one of the cons, either Gathering 2008, or Coppercon, that Fleur is Peredur's wife. So, in that case, Peredur doesn't believe Duval and Fleur to be his parents.

Honestly, I think Peredur may believe he himself is Percival. Remember his dialogue with the Stone.

At Gathering 2008, and I am paraphrasing from memory, Duval serves as a "right-hand man" to Peredur. Which cements my theory that Peredur is a figure head... he's just a figure head to the nth degree.
Greg Bishansky - [<----- Make a real "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!]
Make a real "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!
posted @ Sun, Aug 29, 2010 8:37:16 pm EDT from 68.199.5.105

Greg X: In the immortal words of Peter Parker: wow...just, wow.

That theory is, if you don't mind me gushing, simply brilliant. Sort of a reverse-"Portrait of Dorian Gray"-concept.

The question, then, is what manner of being Peredur is if this turns out to be the case. How intelligent is he, and how autonomous is he from Duval? I assume that in the course of his duties Duval occasionally has to leave Carbonek, but does Peredur ever do so?

And for that manner, is Peredur aware of this frightful origin concept? I would assume not, in which case, one must wonder what he actually thinks he is (if he even is able to come up with such a question). Based on his comment over Duval and Blanchefleur being the two people in the world he loves the most, I'm leaning toward the notion that he believes them to be his biological parents...an additional reason for Fleur to be rather ticked at her cyborg hubby.
Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"Meet the new boss, same as the old boss!" - Roger Daltrey of The Who
posted @ Sun, Aug 29, 2010 8:31:53 pm EDT from 134.173.91.188

So, here is a rather unrefined theory that I've been working on.

Ahem, Percival, Peredur, and Duval. All one and the same. Kinda, sorta.

When Peredur fab Ragnal was first introduced in #9 of "Gargoyles," we were all confused. This seemed to contradict what had been canon-in-training for over ten years. But did it?

Here is the thing. I don't think Peredur is leading the Illuminati now. Remember, Greg has said nothing in his plan there has changed, and he stressed Duval as the leader and as Percival for years. I don't think "Peredur" exists.

I suspect he is some kind of "sinless" creation that is Duval's key to keep using the Grail. The idea isn't refined yet. Remember those magical doubles in W.I.T.C.H. that took on lives of their own? I think we've got something like that going on. Peredur is sorta Duval's innocence magically compartmentalized.

Fleur knows, and I don't think she likes it at all. There is a reason she and Duval are estranged. I don't think Peredur is aware of his own origins.

And, come to think of it, half of Duval's flesh is missing. If one of Percival's identities over the centuries was Brother Valmont (and I am convinced that this is the case), then he is capable of all sorts of dark magic. That raises all kind of gruesome possibilities.

"4. Sir Percival. The Fisher King. Mr. Duval. Founder of the Illuminati. Spends a lot of time in Castle Carbonek, a sort of mini-traveling-Avalon. Also uses the Holy Grail to maintain his youth, though at a very real physical cost, due to his, shall we say, sins."

And then, I found this: http://s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=1224

Yep, "nothing has changed" indeed.
Greg Bishansky - [<----- Make a real "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!]
Make a real "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!
posted @ Sun, Aug 29, 2010 7:40:25 pm EDT from 68.199.5.105

One thin working in the Rescue Rangers comic's favour is that it's going to be written by Ian Brill, the mind behind the kick ass Darkwing Duck series. So win or lose at least it'll have good writing to back it up.
Algernon
Make a REAL "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!
posted @ Sun, Aug 29, 2010 7:14:21 pm EDT from 86.41.114.231

I don't think it will help "Gargoyles" fandom to be bitter over other Disney Afternoon shows getting some attention after over a decade. BOOM! might feel the timing isn't right yet to pursue a new run of "Gargoyles" comics when the trade paperbacks from the last run are still available. I can imagine Darkwing Duck and Rescue Rangers fans were feeling jealous of THIS fandom several years ago when the "Gargoyles" comic was announced.
Patrick
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Sun, Aug 29, 2010 7:07:58 pm EDT from 173.88.135.205

One of my earliest and best ever comic-reading memories was a 'Rescue Rangers' adventure serialised in the Disney Weekly. I haven't read it for 20 years and whether it would hold up now I don't know, but in the ventricle of my heart given over to nostalgia (look, some people stash burger grease there, okay?), it has pride of place. Though, of the non-gargate properties, my hopes are for 'Talespin'.

I think, if anything, it will mildly strengthen the hand of 'Gargoyles' in the medium-term for three reasons:

1. It's a complementary fandom that might not have discovered the comic of 'Gargoyles' otherwise;

2. If BOOM! are genuinely looking to build a Disney Afternoon adventure line over the coming years then they aren't going to stop there; and

3. It makes sense as a business strategy not to launch all your most publicity-grabbing titles at the start, but to save something back that will give the line a shot in the arm a year or two down the track. In particular, 'Gargoyles' is darker, edgier, against-type; the sort of book you use to develop an imprint, not to define it in the first place.
Ed
Abraham: Yes! On the fifth day he created the birds and the fish and today he's invented me murdering my son! Another winner, Lord! You're certainly not tinkering with an already perfect creation like some giant see-through George Lucas!
posted @ Sun, Aug 29, 2010 7:03:20 pm EDT from 87.86.55.65

I'm happy for the RR fans. I popped over to the Acorn Cafe quick and it's great to see how excited they are. It made me remember how excited I was when I first heard the Gargoyles comic news.

I'm definitely hoping for the best and I'm just curious if Gargoyles is even on Boom Studio's consideration list.
Anthony Tini
posted @ Sun, Aug 29, 2010 5:34:33 pm EDT from 75.97.225.93

Greg> Actually, Chip and Dale DO have a fairly active fandom. Just check out the Acorn Cafe.

"The Acorn CafÃ©: The Acorn CafÃ© was established in February 1998, recently celebrating its 10 year anniversary. This forum specialises in art, stories, discussion, and banter that is mostly Rescue Ranger related, and more suitable to a conservative community. It often bills itself as "the friendliest and nicest group on the web," and has more registered members than any other CDRR forum."
Sir_Griff723@yahoo.com - [Sir_Griff723 at yahoo dot com]
"Authority should derive from the consent of the governed, not by the threat of force" Barbie in Toy Story 3--The only version of the character that I respect.
posted @ Sun, Aug 29, 2010 5:16:15 pm EDT from 96.35.210.85

GREG X> To be fair I don't think there was a huge fan outcry for Darkwing Duck either before BOOM! announced it. I'm going to wait and see how well RR does before I make any predictions.
Algernon
Make a REAL "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!
posted @ Sun, Aug 29, 2010 3:51:57 pm EDT from 86.41.120.171

BOOM!> Actually, I am quite uneasy about this news. As far as I know, "Rescue Rangers" doesn't have an active fandom, at least not like ours, and as far as I know, nobody is clamoring for this.

This makes me nervous because, well, what if this one doesn't sell and poisons the well for "Gargoyles?" I just don't understand the business decision to go with "Rescue Rangers."
Greg Bishansky - [<----- Make a real "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!]
Make a real "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!
posted @ Sun, Aug 29, 2010 2:42:12 pm EDT from 68.199.5.105

Brian> I'm afraid I don't know which countries get particular comics.
Antiyonder
posted @ Sun, Aug 29, 2010 2:09:25 pm EDT from 71.92.123.165

A very good news that you said Landon.
Hey, excuse me Antiyonder if I ask you this question today: but Darkwing Duck Comic Books are in the other countries too, including my country, Italy?
Very sorry to ask you this late, I hope my english it is understandable.
Brian Bartoccini
posted @ Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:42:10 pm EDT from 95.75.169.178

LANDON> That's excellent news, It's good that BOOM aren't going to just start pumping out a dozen Disney afternoobn titles just to cash in, it means they care about the quality of these books. I just hope when the time comes to "look at what makes sense for them to pursue", they make the right choice.
Algernon
Make a REAL "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!
posted @ Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:30:51 pm EDT from 86.40.251.238

BOOM! Studios has announced a new Chip 'n Dale Rescue Rangers comic series: http://www.comicbookdaily.com/daily_news/boom-studios-announces-new-disney-title-at-panel/
---

As for the future of Boom! and its Disney Afternoon revolution, they're always having discussions about what title they can pursue next, but are hesitant to over-saturate the market, he said.

"After that we'll look at what makes sense for us to pursue," he said.
---

You can see what's quoted and what's not. I'd be curious for the exact quote.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]
posted @ Sun, Aug 29, 2010 12:21:24 pm EDT from 216.250.163.157

Andrea> What, an official deck of Gargoyles playing cards? Pictures and info for the GargWiki please!
Supermorff
posted @ Sun, Aug 29, 2010 12:20:36 pm EDT from 86.158.45.159

Bishansky > Ooh, pics please!

I've wanted to get a tattoo for years, but not sure what to get or where to get it. I have considered the Phoenix Gate myself on occasion, but I've always leaned more towards an Ouroboros (though I'm not sure if I want the Fullmetal Alchemist one or a different design). Half my problem is I want to to be somewhat visible, so that leaves out my back and shoulders. My upper arm is probably the best place, but there's a small problem with that too...I'm tiny as heck (I'm very often mistaken for someone underage), so it might be hard to get some good details in there for lack of space.

In other news, I found my Gargoyles deck of playing cards, which I completely forgot I had!
Andrea - [SailorV77 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Sun, Aug 29, 2010 9:12:00 am EDT from 24.41.4.242

Faytefire> I've got the Phoenix Gate tattooed on my arm.
Greg Bishansky - [<----- Make a real "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!]
Make a real "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!
posted @ Sun, Aug 29, 2010 12:30:02 am EDT from 68.199.5.105

-delurks after a very long time-

Hi all, I usually just kick back and enjoy everyone's post, but I couldnt resist sharing what I found today.

I regularly drop by at BME, a ezine about tattoos and piercings, and today they posted this http://news.bmezine.com/2010/08/27/stone-by-day-warriors-by-night/
amazing! who knew that our family would be mentioned there :)

hope everyone enjoys!
Faytefire
posted @ Sun, Aug 29, 2010 12:21:46 am EDT from 69.117.124.91

Antiyonder> Voiced by the same actor as the upcoming Superman/Batman: Apocalypse, correct? :-)
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!
posted @ Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:08:04 pm EDT from 174.101.249.151

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=12550

An interesting fun question. But in my mind, the only suitable nanny for the JL Babies?

Granny Goodness.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
Algernon's comment about Norman Osborn: One of the neat things about Dark Reign is that it gives Osborn the chance to expand his horizons beyond tormenting a twenty nine year old who still lives with his mom.
posted @ Sat, Aug 28, 2010 5:57:37 pm EDT from 71.115.241.194

Thank you for the answer Antyonder
Brian Bartoccini - [giovanni dot bartoccini at gmail dot com]
posted @ Sat, Aug 28, 2010 5:35:52 pm EDT from 95.75.163.119

Brian> Not Bishanksy, but I doubt that he means that Alex made David immortial. To put it another way, parents and just about anyone in general continue living through their offspring. Spiritual thing really.

So in a sense, David will continue living through Alex.

Hope that makes sense.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
Algernon's comment about Norman Osborn: One of the neat things about Dark Reign is that it gives Osborn the chance to expand his horizons beyond tormenting a twenty nine year old who still lives with his mom.
posted @ Sat, Aug 28, 2010 5:14:09 pm EDT from 71.115.241.194

Hello,
Mr. Bishansky, you said Demona, Owen, Alex and Macbeth won' t die before and after 2198, but I read on the Gargwikipedia, two days ago, Xanatos become immortal thanks his son: he takes his soul to his son right?
Brian Bartoccini - [giovanni dot bartoccini at gmail dot com]
posted @ Sat, Aug 28, 2010 5:09:41 pm EDT from 95.75.163.119

Who cares about how Goliath died? What about Vinnie, the real hero?:)
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
Algernon's comment about Norman Osborn: One of the neat things about Dark Reign is that it gives Osborn the chance to expand his horizons beyond tormenting a twenty nine year old who still lives with his mom.
posted @ Sat, Aug 28, 2010 4:48:55 pm EDT from 71.115.241.194

I'm going to guess Goliath chokes on a pretzel shortly after holding a press conference to announce "Mission Complete" in the quest for gargoyle equality.
Patrick
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Sat, Aug 28, 2010 10:51:16 am EDT from 173.88.135.205

BISHANSKY - And Nokkar (though since he's been a one-shot character so far, I find your omitting him understandable).
Todd Jensen
posted @ Sat, Aug 28, 2010 6:31:15 am EDT from 4.244.209.252

But, if I had to guess... sometime between 2008 and 2188... Goliath slips in the shower.

;)
Greg Bishansky - [<----- Make a real "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!]
Make a real "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!
posted @ Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:43:59 am EDT from 68.199.5.105

Celestialien86> You don't think Greg would reveal that, do you.

But, to be fair, except for Demona, Owen, Alex, Macbeth, I think almost everyone dies before 2198.
Greg Bishansky - [<----- Make a real "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!]
Make a real "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!
posted @ Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:14:56 am EDT from 68.199.5.105

Does anyone knows how Goliath died in between 2008-2188? I am sad that he died, but how?
Celestialien86 - [LylatWarrior at aol dot com]
"Never give up! Trust your instincts!" -James McCloud from Star Fox
posted @ Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:12:44 am EDT from 24.4.85.107

Very sorry Antiyonder, I've misunderstood that you' ve wrote to Philip.
Brian Bartoccini - [giovanni dot bartoccini at gmail dot com]
posted @ Fri, Aug 27, 2010 4:56:27 pm EDT from 217.201.65.251

GREG B> Yeah, like I said it does undercut the the story's theme. I was just throwing ideas at the wall to see if anything stuck. It's not implausible for Demona to just glide around for a couple of hours, keeping an ear out for screams, gunshots or the like. But the family is something she'd have had to know about ahead of time.
Algernon
Make a REAL "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!
posted @ Fri, Aug 27, 2010 4:39:03 pm EDT from 86.41.99.196

Brian> Can you run that by me again?
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
Algernon's comment about Norman Osborn: One of the neat things about Dark Reign is that it gives Osborn the chance to expand his horizons beyond tormenting a twenty nine year old who still lives with his mom.
posted @ Fri, Aug 27, 2010 4:35:40 pm EDT from 71.115.241.194

I don't think the mugging or murder were staged. Sadly, especially back then, both things were quite common in Manhattan.

The home and the family fight is the one thing I am suspicious about.
Greg Bishansky - [<----- Make a real "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!]
Make a real "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!
posted @ Fri, Aug 27, 2010 4:11:03 pm EDT from 68.199.5.105

GREG B> Hmm, there's a thought. I doubt she choose that particular house at random though, she clearly knew what Brooklyn was going to see. It would have really hurt her case if she happened to stumble on some saccharine scene of family bonding over a game of Hungry Hungry Hippos.

Whether that means she'd already staked out that particular house and knew what to expect or whether she staged it is an open question. If we're going down that road though, we might start questioning the other stuff Brooklyn saw that night. It's certainly not beyond Demona's capabilities to hire a couple of out of work actors to stage a mugging or even more disturbingly, a hitman to take out some random civilian just so she can make a point.

On the other hand the main theme of "Betrayal" was all about how Demona's view of humanity was a half truth but not the whole truth. It would seem to undermine that if she faked it all. I'm not sure what to think, there's arguments for and against and frankly, the two hemispheres of my brain are kinda debating over it.
Algernon
Make a REAL "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!
posted @ Fri, Aug 27, 2010 3:57:24 pm EDT from 86.40.151.17

So, did you see Greg's latest answer? It was about how Demona just happened to land Brooklyn outside a window of a brownstone to watch a family argue.

Then I remembered this little tidbit from his "Temptation" ramble:

"Did Demona pay that family to perform their little scene for Brooklyn? I didn't think so at the time. But now I'm suspicious."

I'll admit, I'm suspicious too. She wouldn't be above doing that.
Greg Bishansky - [<----- Make a real "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!]
Make a real "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!
posted @ Fri, Aug 27, 2010 3:33:17 pm EDT from 68.199.5.105

DEMONSKRYE> I'm sure Hudson did have a second before Goliath, but I doubt it was anyone we've met yet.
Greg Bishansky - [<----- Make a real "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!]
Make a real "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!
posted @ Fri, Aug 27, 2010 3:20:39 pm EDT from 68.199.5.105

Just a random thought that occurred to me today: did Hudson have a second before Goliath? GargWiki says that Hudson was leader of the Wyvern Clan by 967 and probably had that position for some time before then. In 967, Goliath would have been 29 years old - the biological equivalent of a 14 year old human. I don't know at what age a gargoyle would have been seen as a warrior in the Wyvern Clan, but it strikes me that Goliath would have been awfully young to be entrusted with leading the clan should anything happen to Hudson, especially if Hudson's term as leader began when Goliath was even younger. It is possible that Hudson put off choosing a second for a time, but I doubt he would have, since he must have known that any battle could easily have been his last and the clan would need a leader if he should be killed. (Goliath took over a year in choosing a new second, but I would chalk that up to a combination of being in a time where his clan's mortality rate isn't quite so high, being a somewhat young leader with limited experience, his concerns over whether the Trio were mature enough to handle either being his second or not being chosen as his second, and the emotional toll taken by having his previous second - who also happened to be his mate - betray him and the clan. I think he may have hoped that if something happened to him, Hudson would take over the clan again, even if deep down he knew that wasn't a reasonable solution before Hudson pointed it out to him directly.)
Demonskrye - [<---Hiatus and Opportunity at The Ink and Pixel Club]
posted @ Fri, Aug 27, 2010 2:59:44 pm EDT from 146.115.115.75

Incisivis: Actually, The Warners manufacture-on-demand DVD's actually do eventually turn up on Amazon.com. Not right away, but they do-so hang in there. I found that out myself with another one of their titles-which is listed on Amazon.
Wingless
posted @ Fri, Aug 27, 2010 1:33:23 pm EDT from 99.245.254.123

Wingless> I checked your lead, and it seems that POTD is a manufacture-on-demand product, available only through the Warner Bros. website, and only for *Americans*.

This makes me a sad, sad nerdlinger. :(
Incisivis - [incisivis at hotmail dot com]
"No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even dragonflies and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream."--Shirley Jackson
posted @ Fri, Aug 27, 2010 1:23:46 pm EDT from 96.52.144.179

I just got a shock. Just read on tvshowsondvd that Warner Brothers is releasing they 80's Hanna Barbera series "Pirates of Dark Water" on DVD! It was a bold move for Hanna Barbera in an era of Smurfs & Snorks - sadly the, continuing series was cancelled before it was completed. Still, it's worth checking out.
Wingless
posted @ Fri, Aug 27, 2010 11:33:06 am EDT from 99.245.254.123

Battle Beast> Try BOOM! Comics own webpage, or baring that, Amazon should work. I've seen Darkwing Duck #1 there at least. And I've seen a preorder page for Darkwing Duck #5.
Sir_Griff723@yahoo.com - [Sir_Griff723 at yahoo dot com]
"Authority should derive from the consent of the governed, not by the threat of force" Barbie in Toy Story 3--The only version of the character that I respect.
posted @ Fri, Aug 27, 2010 8:10:05 am EDT from 96.35.210.85

Hey Antiyonder, what do you exacly want say about that you' ve wrote?
Brian Bartoccini - [giovanni dot bartoccini at gmail dot com]
posted @ Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:15:28 am EDT from 217.201.100.178

I WANT TO BUY Darkwing Duck, but I can't find it! Where online can I get it???
Battle Beast - [Canada]
I have started a movie challenge whereby I am wtching all 475 Best Picture nominees and winners in 365 days. I am on Day #169 and movie #196... wish me luck!
posted @ Fri, Aug 27, 2010 12:56:33 am EDT from 75.152.109.243

"A good set of stories that will leave you satisfied, while leaving you hungry for more."

Hungry indeed... VERY hungry...
The One Known As Mochi - [shogi dot keima dot 08 at gmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>X_x)> Video game testing is fun, but tiring...
posted @ Fri, Aug 27, 2010 12:11:12 am EDT from 72.199.80.47

Philip Gipson> Nice to hear that we have another fan. If you've finished the first 65 episodes (Hunter's Moon Part 3 being the finale) there are three trade paperbacks reprinting a shortlived comic revival. You'll find them worth the read. They are titled:
- Gargoyles Clan Building Volume 1
- Gargoyles Clan Building Volume 2
- Gargoyles Bad Guys

A good set of stories that will leave you satisfied, while leaving you hungry for more.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
Algernon's comment about Norman Osborn: One of the neat things about Dark Reign is that it gives Osborn the chance to expand his horizons beyond tormenting a twenty nine year old who still lives with his mom.
posted @ Thu, Aug 26, 2010 9:22:12 pm EDT from 71.115.241.194

Hey, everybody! The name's Philip. I've watched "Gargoyles" and think it's an excellent cartoon. I wonder what'll happen next with the franchise?
Philip Gipson - [phlpgpsn at yahoo dot com]
Defender
posted @ Thu, Aug 26, 2010 9:14:04 pm EDT from 71.65.113.221

Brian, Antyonder, and Algernon> Yes indeed, Darkwing Duck IS awesome. Not only capturing the show (and updating it to the modern era) but it's funny and EXTREMELY well written. [SPOILER] Issue # had me guessing who was in charge of Quackwerks the entire time. NegaDuck was my first guess, and the Brainteasers my second. Taurus Bulba crossed my mind, but he was not high on my list. Plus, the Rescue Ranger joke cracked me up. People in my comic book store stared. [/SPOILER]
Sir_Griff723@yahoo.com - [Sir_Griff723 at yahoo dot com]
"Authority should derive from the consent of the governed, not by the threat of force" Barbie in Toy Story 3--The only version of the character that I respect.
posted @ Thu, Aug 26, 2010 7:04:12 pm EDT from 96.35.210.85

Antiyonder here.

Algernon> That too. Not to mention that it captures the show perfectly (in story and design).
Anonymous
posted @ Thu, Aug 26, 2010 6:00:40 pm EDT from 66.96.68.138

Antiyonder: In addition to the reasons you listed, I'd recommend picking up the Darkwing Duck comic because it's just plain awesome. :D
Algernon
Make a REAL "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!
posted @ Thu, Aug 26, 2010 5:19:54 pm EDT from 86.40.3.241

Ed Asner still loves doing cartoons: http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/VoicesFromKrypton/news/?a=21925
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]
posted @ Thu, Aug 26, 2010 2:38:21 pm EDT from 128.101.32.234

Brian> In addition to what was said on the DVDs, I would also suggest that you purchase the Darkwing Duck comics if you haven't. THe support of any product relating to the Disney Afternoon would certainly convince Boom to pursue other DA comics (Gargoyles especially).
Antiyonder
posted @ Thu, Aug 26, 2010 2:07:06 pm EDT from 71.115.241.194

Brian B: I believe that you misunderstood the summary in the GargWiki. It was Thailog's membership in the Illuminati that convinced the Redemption Squad not to join up; Fang had dealt with him before (in "The Reckoning") and knew that he was not to be trusted. And since the rest of the Squad didn't trust Fang himself at that point, he was able to use his own deadpan endorsement of Thailog to clue the others in over just what kind of gargoyle Thailog was.
Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"Meet the new boss, same as the old boss!" - Roger Daltrey of The Who
posted @ Thu, Aug 26, 2010 12:44:09 pm EDT from 72.130.246.18

Thank you for your answer Demonskrye; Hey could you answer to me my question about Thailog in 'Bad Guys'
Brian Bartoccini - [giovanni dot bartoccini at gmail dot com]
posted @ Thu, Aug 26, 2010 12:25:09 pm EDT from 217.201.195.225

Brian> Adding a little to what Landon said, I don't recall if you've been told before, but Disney currently has no plans to release the rest of Season Two of Gargoyles on DVD, in the US or anywhere else. Sales of the first half on the second season were less than expected and unfortunately, Disney saw this as reason not to release the res of the series. At this point, Season Two Volume 1 has been out for nearly five years, so it's not going to mean anything if the number of DVDs sold reaches Disney's original goal now (assuming it hasn't already). There would have to be a huge increase in the sales of the DVDs to make Disney take notice at this point. But there is another possibility. If BOOM does put out a Gargoyles comic and the comic becomes a big success, Disney might conclude that there is still some money to be made on the brand and consider releasing the second half of season two.
Demonskrye - [<---Hiatus and Opportunity at The Ink and Pixel Club]
posted @ Thu, Aug 26, 2010 12:19:35 pm EDT from 146.115.115.75

Thank you for your answers Landon.
And about the DVDs and comic books: I really hope Disney decide to care about Gargoyles(This is not a question).
Well, I have an other question: in the GargWikipedia I did not understand this: Did Thailog in 'Losers' of 'Bad Guys' convinced Dingo and his partners to join with the Illuminati?
I hope my english it is understandable.
Goodbye.
Brian Bartoccini - [giovanni dot bartoccini at gmail dot com]
e1dfb9
posted @ Thu, Aug 26, 2010 12:17:43 pm EDT from 217.201.195.225

I wonder what the licensing costs are. And I wonder how the licensing costs SLG paid for Gargoyles compare to the licensing costs Boom! is paying for Darkwing Duck.
Gorebash
posted @ Thu, Aug 26, 2010 12:17:38 pm EDT from 207.206.236.230

1. What is this 'BOOM' exacly?

BOOM! Studios is a 5-year-old comic book publisher. Their editor-in-chief is Mark Waid who was already a well-established comic writer and editor. It's also one of the most prominent comic publishers of Disney characters, through licensing. BOOM! recently started printed a Darkwing Duck comic series and a DuckTales storyline within the existing comic series Uncle Scrooge. Since both are a continuation of Disney Afternoon cartoons, many fans conclude that BOOM! can be convinced to publish Gargoyles as well.

2. Any news about the DVDs and comic books

None. Tangential news about the comic book is that SLG, the publisher of the existing Gargoyles comic series, is in admitted financial trouble. Since they had said the Disney license for Gargoyles was too expensive, a continuation of the comic series at SLG looks increasingly unlikely.

3. (I really hope they will release in the other countries, mine too)?

Has Disney released any Gargoyles DVDs in other markets? I don't know, but they won't even complete the DVD series in their home country. You might be out of luck for the foreseeable future.

4. And what about the movie that will called Gargoyles?

No news has cropped up since the initial announcement. They were still very early in development and at a stage where movie cancellation or shelving is common in the industry.

5. I really hope Disney decide to do that they began; they want neglect the Gargoyles and this is not good.

It's not willful neglect. Gargoyles is simply not enough of an established money-maker to draw their attention right now. Things can change and Greg has recently confirmed that Gargoyles is still ripe for licensing to anyone that is willing to pay.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]
posted @ Thu, Aug 26, 2010 10:59:13 am EDT from 128.101.32.234

Hi how are you all?
What is this 'BOOM' exacly?
Any news about the DVDs and comic books
(I really hope they will release in the other countries, mine too)?
And what about the movie that will called Gargoyles?
I really hope Disney decide to do that they began; they want neglect the Gargoyles and this is not good.
I hope someone will answer me.
Goodbye.
Brian Bartoccini - [giovanni dot bartoccini at gmail dot com]
posted @ Thu, Aug 26, 2010 6:36:09 am EDT from 109.53.98.39

Alright, I made an account and gave my two cents on the thread in question. Here's what I posted:

The reason that the SLG comics ended was because Disney raised their licensing fee to the point where it became, unfortunately, financially unfeasible for SLG to renew the license.

However, it should be noted to all that "Gargoyles" was quite possibly SLG's best-selling comic before the license expired, with the first printing of Issue #1 selling out despite the disadvantages of coming from such a (comparatively) small publisher. Clearly, this demonstrates that there is significant demand for the property.

"Gargoyles" was without a doubt the greatest animated series of all time; the crown jewel amongst a long run of incredible cartoons that Disney was churning out during the period (including "Darkwing Duck" and many others). It's deep and emotional storylines, excellently developed characters, and rich basis in world mythology were second-to-none, and thanks to series creator Greg Weisman's writing the SLG comic series followed suit to tremendous effect. But while I will always be grateful to SLG for taking the chance on the property in the first place, that run has ended for good, and with the license again up-for-grabs I can think of no better home for "Gargoyles" than BOOM! Studios.

If anyone with the power to make this happen is reading these words, please know that the existing audience for a new "Gargoyles" comic is enormous and exceedingly passionate. I have not heard a single negative review of the series from people who have watched and read its incredible stories, and at this particular point in time I believe that the superlative response to the "Darkwing Duck" comics has proven that significant nostalgia exists for the properties of that period...a nostalgia that motivates dollars.

The "Gargoyles" fans across the world are once more a dormant goldmine, and I heartily encourage those of you at BOOM! to consider tapping into their pockets and their passion by helping to produce more of the greatest fictional stories the world has ever seen.
Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"Meet the new boss, same as the old boss!" - Roger Daltrey of The Who
posted @ Wed, Aug 25, 2010 11:17:36 pm EDT from 72.130.246.18

Now is as good a time as any.

I opened an account on BOOM! Studio's forum, and started a thread asking for "Gargoyles."

http://forums.boom-studios.net/

I would encourage everyone here to join up, and participate. Maybe something is already in the works, maybe now, but let's keep showing them the demand.
Greg Bishansky - [<----- Make a real "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!]
Make a real "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!
posted @ Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:05:40 pm EDT from 68.199.5.105

Landon: That's fantastic news, I've been very impressed with BOOM's Darkwing comic so far and it's such a rare thing to hear of a new series gaining readers with each issue. With any luck the success of this series might prompt BOOM to start looking at a certain other Disney Afternoon series, if you know what I mean. ;)
...

...

...

[SPOILER] Come on Quack Pack! [/SPOILER]
Algernon
Make a REAL "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!
posted @ Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:10:06 pm EDT from 86.40.242.86

Amazingly, Darkwing Duck is getting more popular with each issue: http://us1.campaign-archive2.com/?u=9d17c9217240226bbc79d6750&id=1a2ebce573
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]
posted @ Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:23:41 pm EDT from 128.101.32.234

These are just my own thoughts, but:

"Young Justice". The show is about YOUNG adults who have superpowers. Chances are they're going to be exercising some JUSTICE against some bad guys. And there might just be an even deeper meaning about YOUNG adults trying to find some JUSTICE for themselves during what is normally a very awkward time in a person's life even without the added burden of having to manage their superpowers.

You tack on the word "League" to the title and that meaning goes out the window and it just sounds like another generic DC title.

The name, if you remove all connection to previous DC titles (and removing "League" from the title helps to break that connection) stands on its own and immediately gives you an idea about what you'll see in the show if you give it more than a passing thought.
Gorebash
posted @ Wed, Aug 25, 2010 1:50:06 pm EDT from 207.206.236.230

I was listening to a very interesting episode of the podcast RadioLab yesterday on the subject of words an language. One segment was about a woman who suffered a stroke and lost the ability to think verbally for a long period of time. She talked about how the experience was oddly peacefully and freeing, how it became hard for her to think about much other than what was happening to her at the moment. Because she wasn't able to mentally call up the labels to describe an event ("Oh, the sun's coming up"), she would experience what was happening without that filter of language, of names. It's been theorized that this his how babies and young children perceive the world as well. Though it was my first thought (I do have other things on my mind), I eventually started wondering if this was how pre-language gargoyles might have experienced the world. It seems to fit with much of what we know about them. I like the notion of early gargoyles just experiencing what happens to and around them without needing to put a label on it. And this way of experiencing the world does have its drawbacks, which would help to explain why gargoyles eventually adopted human languages and fulfill my need for gargoyles and their natural lifestyle to not be inherently superior and perfect. While the woman who lost her interior monologue for a time misses the peacefulness and ability to be present in the moment that she had during that time, other segments of the podcast discussed how language can be helpful or even crucial for connecting different ways of thinking and analyzing data. So while gargoyles may have lost something in accepting language into their world, but they may have also gained from it. Certainly the show doesn't present the issue as black and white. Yes we have Hudson's arguments against overdefining everything, but even he can't totally get away from language and argue that the sky doesn't need to be called "the sky." Plus, without language, there are no books, and we know how reverently the series treats books.
Demonskrye - [<---The Business of Animationl at The Ink and Pixel Club]
posted @ Wed, Aug 25, 2010 11:50:15 am EDT from 146.115.115.75

ANTIYONDER - I saw it once on television, but didn't find it that memorable.

I saw some Season One episodes of "W.I.T.C.H." during its brief run on ABC. My favorite part was the running gag where people kept on calling Blunk a smuggler, and he always replied, with a tone of injured dignity, something like "Discount importer" or "Tradesman".
Todd Jensen
posted @ Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:44:40 am EDT from 4.244.214.159

As far as W.I.T.C.H. goes, I've watched my share of girl center programs, so this show was nothing new to me. As for my response to Greg B's blog post:

I'll have to say that while I found the first season to be okay, I agree with your critique on it. And it's not even that the first season is horrible, just underwhelming and too predictable.

The outcome (Elyon finding about that Phobo's deceit) was something expected to happen. Not to mention Phobo having a one-tracked mind as far as simply conquering the world. I mean for a villain with an appealing personality trait (usually being comical), the whole take over the world thing is more workable. But for a more serious villain, it's hard to find said enemy intereting. Heck, Nerissa even points this out.

Season Two had story moments where we could guess the outcome (Cornelia and Caleb getting back together, Matt getting freed from Nerissa's spell and the girls coming out victorious in the end), but just the same many moments were unexpected (such as the aformentioned betrayal).

But to add to it, it was a fun show which went far up in quality when Greg W got involved.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
Algernon's comment about Norman Osborn: One of the neat things about Dark Reign is that it gives Osborn the chance to expand his horizons beyond tormenting a twenty nine year old who still lives with his mom.
posted @ Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:00:15 am EDT from 71.115.241.194

Gargoyles reference on the recent Nostalgia Critic review at 11:44 (Review being for Mr. Nanny): http://nostalgiacritic.blip.tv/file/4040496/

Also, Todd, I'm not sure whether you've seen A Kid in King Arthur's Court, but the Critic did a review of that movie last year: http://nostalgiacritic.blip.tv/file/1761039/
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
Algernon's comment about Norman Osborn: One of the neat things about Dark Reign is that it gives Osborn the chance to expand his horizons beyond tormenting a twenty nine year old who still lives with his mom.
posted @ Tue, Aug 24, 2010 9:07:34 pm EDT from 71.115.241.194

I'm looking forward to Greg's "Young Justice." The animation is gorgeous--I feel like it sorta combines the best of Gargoyles animation and SSM animation. I liked the fact that the animation in SSM was generally free of animation errors and could be much more fluid, showing action scenes better. But I didn't like that it was so stylized and looked so "cartoony". I liked the level of detail and realism in Gargoyles' animation, but I also felt like that kinda worked against it because it made it a series more prone to animation errors and action scenes often weren't as fluid or dynamic. But with "Young Justice", I feel like a perfect happy medium has probably been found.

Animation aside, a bigger concern is story. And with Greg at the helm, I'm sure "Young Justice" will tell a great story.

Nevertheless, I sorta feel bad for fans of "Young Justice" the comic--having a somewhat unrelated TV show come out with the name "Young Justice" sorta precludes the possibility that *their* beloved comic will ever be made into a show...or at the very least, it could happen someday but it would have to use a different name. For the sake of fans of the existing "Young Justice" property, I sorta wish a different name had been chosen. But for the life of me, I can't think of anything good.
Gargoyles Movie - [Rebel (trying to help with Google bombing)]
posted @ Tue, Aug 24, 2010 8:35:00 pm EDT from 69.134.199.200

I'm staying out of the bulk of the "Young Justice" discussion since I don't have cable, and therefore wouldn't be able to see the series when it comes out - but this does strike me as one of those occasions when I'm glad I'm not that familiar with DC Comics. (The only team member in the series whom I know much about is Robin.) That way, I could come to the series free of any preconceptions.

(I know that I had only a basic knowledge of Spiderman when I watched "The Spectacular Spider-Man" - I'd seen some episodes of the FOX animated series, but it was a long time ago and my memory of them was foggy - but I had no difficulty following the story and figuring out who was who in spite of my lack of comics-knowledge. For example, about all I knew about Gwen Stacy in the comics was that she was killed in a fight between Spiderman and the Green Goblin at a bridge, but I still had a good grasp of the Gwen of the animated series. I didn't know, when they were introduced, that Marko and O'Hirn were future super-villain adversaries of Spidey, but I got their characters as well - particularly the contrast between O'Hirn's main motive being a desire for revenge on Spidey, and Marko being more interested in pulling off big robberies. Of course, there were a few cases where I did know something about the original character, and that often made the story more interesting for me. For example, I remembered, when Otto Octavius showed up, that he was the future Dr. Octopus - and what intrigued me most about him in his first appearances was his timid, meek tone - so that the big question I wondered about him was "How does he go from being 'Caspar Milquetoast' to a ruthless super-villain?" (And the answer worked for me.) Not to mention that I also got all the hints about Uncle Ben's death and its impact on Spidey - such as the line "I can't look the other way again" - before it was made clear in the next-to-last episode of the first season. So I'd say from this that Greg will likely make "Young Justice" accessible to people who don't know that much about the original property, like me.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Aug 24, 2010 7:04:49 pm EDT from 4.244.210.11

I don't really know what Greg's problem was with "Young Justice League". "Young Justice" just seems so meaningless as a title in its own right and none of the negative connotations of "Young Justice League" aren't inherent in the concept of the series. But then, I've never been into DC and I'll be watching entirely because of Greg as opposed to any innate interest in the material; what it's called doesn't really bother me.
Ed
posted @ Tue, Aug 24, 2010 3:45:23 pm EDT from 87.86.55.65

As one of those big fans of Young Justice, and one who still isn't sure about the animated series, I'm willing to admit that the reasons for choosing the name are perfectly logical ones. However, I disagree emphatically with the idea that a series more faithful to the comic book would have been too similar in tone to the Teen Titans. Yes, they were both light-hearted series that placed great importance on humor, but saying that Young Justice and Teen Titans had "the same feeling" is akin to saying that Eddie Izzard and Katt Williams have "the same feeling" just because they both do stand-up. Young Justice may have been humorous, but an equally important part of its appeal was that it was a story about growing up, and how the teen heroes dealt with death, their evolving relationship with adults, their growing drive for independence and intimacy, hormones, secrecy, and their changing hopes and dreams. Ironically, in developing Young Justice the TV series to not be like Teen Titans--and by implication, like what he believes Young Justice the comic book was--he'll quite probably be end up turning his creation into something rather similar to the source material he's determined to not use.

...
...
...

Also, thanks all for all the additional info and suggestions on gargoyles taxonomy.
Ian Perez - [doknowbutchie at gmail dot com]
posted @ Tue, Aug 24, 2010 11:59:37 am EDT from 208.54.185.31

Young Justice> I think Greg's comments about the name "Young Justice" were extremely fair in that he does acknowledge the frustration of people who like the original comic and feel somewhat bummed that the show isn't closer to it. While I don't think that this should be reason for anyone to refuse to watch the show or write it off before they've even seen it, I can understand the feeling. If Warner Brothers were to put out a series or direct-to-DVD release called "Batman Ego" that wasn't an adaptation of Darwyn Cooke's comic of the same name, I'd probably be a bit upset, But it helps that Greg admits that "Young Justice" may not be the perfect name for the series, but it's the best and most fitting one they could come up with given the limitations they were working with. I don't think anyone would have been happy with a completely original name. "Teen Titans" means something else to the general public due to the Cartoon Network series. "Young Justice" is and existing name, it sounds good, and it communicates the idea of a younger Justice League.

It seems like no matter what you do with an established comics property, some fans are going to complain about it. And i say that as someone who reads comics and has many friends who read comics, some of whom complain about films and TV adaptations of said comics. Heck, I wanted nothing to do with "Batman Beyond" before that came out and even when it did it took me quite a while before I got to like it.
Demonskrye - [<---The Business of Animationl at The Ink and Pixel Club]
posted @ Tue, Aug 24, 2010 10:27:29 am EDT from 146.115.115.75

Yesterday was my birthday, I meant to post something on the day of, but got distracted.

I know I don't post all that much but as a gift to you all (okay, it's more a gift to myself because it's pretty self-indulgent) here's a fan-dub I did with a friend once upon a time (it's Gargoyles and I'm playing Xanatos):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsIL-3B9_6c

He does really good stuff anyway. But my mics really low quality.

On a completely unrelated note, it always bugged me how the only place in Canada Goliath and co. goes to is entirely made-up. And more recently, I've always thought Quebec City made a lot more sense. (Seeing as how it is one of the few remaining *walled cities* in the world.)

Of course, until I actually went there, I never realized that the wall is... actually impossible to see from the sky anyway. And it's inside the city, not around it. (As they've obviously expanded the city since 1795.)

But of course from an architecture standpoint, the city is beautiful. So I still think it'd be an awesome international location for Gargoyles, but anyway, that's my rant for today.
Aldrius
"It didn't occur to me until just now. But if I had been in Thailog's shoes I would have had a contingency plan for escaping that rig. I would have known that faking my own death was the optimum means of getting away scot free with all those millions." - Xanatos, faking your own death is the optimum means of securing money.
posted @ Tue, Aug 24, 2010 10:14:42 am EDT from 173.206.123.44

Just read Greg W's ramble on "What's in a name...?"

Was intensely pleased that someone finally stuck it right to the irrepressible "lack of Tim Drake and Bart Allen = total suxorz" crowd. Was even more pleased that it came directly from the big man himself.

BTW, Greg X, I also recently read your take on "W.I.T.C.H." on your blog (both the version before and the version after the picture, LOL). Found it both fun and gratifying (since I spent quite a bit of time unsuccessfully trying to convince my friends to watch it a couple years back, their excuse being - of course - that it looked too "girly"). And the comment about Will's dad having "traded down" was hilarious, particularly since I was predisposed to dislike him given his comic counterparts general...douchbaggery.
Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"Meet the new boss, same as the old boss!" - Roger Daltrey of The Who
posted @ Tue, Aug 24, 2010 9:09:39 am EDT from 72.130.246.18

Of course, we don't know the size of the typeface or the spacing in Greg Weisman's timeline manuscript.

But, yes, there are probably several details in there that he hasn't revealed yet. Just as well, too. If he gets to tell more "Gargoyles" stories, I'd like there to be some surprises.

(A few times while reading the comics - especially with "Bad Guys" #2 - I understood more than ever why Greg was so hesitant at revealing things at "Ask Greg". "Bad Guys" 2, for example: almost all the big events that happened in it - Yama's banishment, Hunter's recruiting him for the Redemption Squad, with the threat to expose Ishimura's clan to the world if he didn't agree, and Sevarius breaking Fang out of the Labyrinth - were all things we already knew about. Of course, we also got a lot of good character moments that we hadn't known about (the look of anguish on Yama's face as he forbids Sora to share his exile, the "Oh,boy" look on Dingo's face as he realizes what Hunter's about to use as a threat to Yama, the introductions - "I'm Dingo. That's Hunter. The puddle's Matrix", Dingo's alarm at discovering they're heading back to New York where he has an arrest warrant waiting for him, and Hunter's cool response - not to mention that we find out Fang's original name). But it still helped me understand Greg's reasons for saying little and fears that he's revealed too much.

We got a lot of other things in the comics that we already knew about, of course (the Double Date, the Illuminati being behind the Quarrymen, Castaway and Jon Canmore being the same person, the lost World Tour story about Coldstone in the Himalayas, the London clan's country estate, Brooklyn's TimeDancing, etc.) - and even a couple of other things that Greg didn't mention at "Ask Greg" but which obviously didn't surprise us (such as Thailog coming back for the Clones). But we also got some genuine surprises among it (Thailog's in the Illuminati, the introduction of Shari - who, despite being his executive assistant, outranks him in the Society, the Illuminati's internal structure, complete with total membership slots, Quincy Hemings, Constance and Staghart, Dr. Sato befriending the clan, Maggie's pregnancy, Brentwood's defection, Constantine and Gillecomgain's team-up, the riddle about Peredur and Duval - which is the real Percival?, etc.) And even one or two changes (such as the Phoenix, rather than the Phoenix Gate, being responsible for Brooklyn's TimeDancing).

If we get more comics, we'll be moving further away from the territory that Greg gave us details about, and will probably get a larger proportion of surprises. (We do know still that he'd planned stories about Alex getting kidnapped, the formation of the Ultra-Pack, Goliath on trial - with the big question being whether he'd even get a trial since most humans don't think of gargoyles as intelligent beings, and the death of Halcyon Renard.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Aug 24, 2010 9:04:46 am EDT from 4.244.213.155

For the fun of it, I pasted the GargWiki's timeline in my word processor and it is 56 pages.

Greg Weisman's timeline is 300 pages. Our timeline is 99% lifted from what he posted in Ask Greg.

He is really, truly, holding out on us. LOL
Greg Bishansky - [<----- Make a real "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!]
Make a real "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!
posted @ Tue, Aug 24, 2010 4:08:22 am EDT from 68.199.5.105

Algernon> Good point. Either way that'd make the Labyrinth Clan most unconventional by gargoyle standards.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
posted @ Mon, Aug 23, 2010 11:21:57 pm EDT from 76.217.239.172

Bryant > Greg Weisman has no control over what Disney does or does not do.
Patrick
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Mon, Aug 23, 2010 9:38:54 pm EDT from 173.88.135.205

Hey Greg, when are the rest of the Gargoyles episodes going to released on DVD? Disney can somehow afford to released every other show on DVD (Ducktales, Darkwing duck, Xmen, etc.) while leaving them EDITED with NO noteworthy bonus extras...... unlike the Gargoyles season 1 and 2.1 boxsets.

I'm STILL trying to get over the fact that I WASTED $70 on the EDITED Xmen animated series (by Disney) vol 1 & 2, and Darkwing Duck vol 2 and the worse thing is that I was barred from staring discussions about things like this on Amazon.com to try to warn people of things like this!

What do you think Greg Weisman?
Bryant Bradby - [ptrunks19 at aol dot com]
Bryant Bradby
posted @ Mon, Aug 23, 2010 6:55:39 pm EDT from 70.169.158.202

MATT> Those are some interesting ideas, but if the Labyrinth Clan still practices cloning in 2198 it's not unreasonable to assume they keep track of every member's genetic line, regardless of how they raise their eggs.
Algernon
Make a REAL "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!
posted @ Mon, Aug 23, 2010 6:21:08 pm EDT from 86.42.127.232

Concerning the Labyrinth Clan and its future population. In the Gargoyles: 2198 document Phil and I possess, Greg, in regards to the Labyrinth Clan, wrote, "Many of these gargoyles are descendents of those created during the cloning and genetic mutation experiments of the late twentieth and early twenty-first centuries. It is rumored cloning still continues in the Labyrinth."

Assuming this information becomes canon, we can assume a couple things. First off, Greg said "most" not "all". Not everybody who joins the Labyrinth Clan will be a clone or mutate, so not every hatchling will be descended from a clone or mutate. And given that we are talking about 200 years in the future, it wouldn't take many genetically engineered pairs for most of the gargoyles to be descended from genetically engineered gargoyles. Probably a good number will be descended from Delilah and Malibu for instance. Which leads me to the Delilah of 2198. While the rumor is that cloning is still going on in the Labyrinth in 2198, I don't think Delilah (2198) is a clone of Delilah (1996). In the same document, Greg wrote: "One of [Delilah's] ancestors was the result of a twentieth century science experiment that combined the DNA of the gargoyles' human friend Elisa Maza with that of the evil gargoyle Demona."

I think it is telling that Greg wrote "One of her ancestors was" not "Her ancestor was".

So that leaves us with the mystery of how Delilah (2198) knows she has human DNA in her. I suspect that given the influence of Talon and Maggie, the Labyrinth Clan may be the only gargoyle clan in 2198 that doesn't raise its young communally. Delilah may have been taught her personal family tree and namesake by her biological parents. That is just speculation, of course.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
posted @ Mon, Aug 23, 2010 5:50:32 pm EDT from 76.217.239.172

It seems that a couple of possible scientific names have been suggested for Bigfoot, varying according to different lines of speculation about where Bigfoot might fit into the animal kingdom. Whether these theories are serious or more speculative - "If Bigfoot were real" - isn't that important when were looking for a scientific name for a creature not proven to exist. Anyway, if Greg gets as far as both introducing a bigfoot, sasquatch, yeti, or what have you and giving it a scientific name, I would imagine the name will be one that has already been suggested for the creature.
Demonskrye - [<---Is Anime Special at The Ink and Pixel Club]
posted @ Mon, Aug 23, 2010 2:59:54 pm EDT from 146.115.115.75

PATRICK> I response to something you posted just before the room reset.

"What about scientific names for Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster?"

I don't no about Bigfoot but Nessie does have an unofficial scientific name.

"Nessiteras rhombopteryx"
Algernon - [padraig dot j dot griffin at hotmail dot com]
Make a REAL "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!
posted @ Mon, Aug 23, 2010 11:17:36 am EDT from 86.40.0.236

10TH!
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
posted @ Mon, Aug 23, 2010 8:16:47 am EDT from 76.217.239.172

TODD> I suspect Xanatos would react to it with benign amusement.
Greg Bishansky - [<----- Make a real "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!]
Make a real "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!
posted @ Mon, Aug 23, 2010 7:05:38 am EDT from 68.199.5.105

8th.

We've speculated in the past about how the other gargoyles would respond if they ever found out about the events of "Future Tense" (one of the more popular speculations, I recall, was Brooklyn being indignant over being Demona's mate in that vision, and maybe even deciding to have a few words with Owen/Puck alone over that). But I recently wondered what Xanatos' response would be. My suspicion: "Please, give me some credit. Do you really think I'd ever come up with such a blatant, unsubtle scheme as open world domination? I'm far more original than that."
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Aug 23, 2010 6:55:43 am EDT from 4.244.211.154

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