Comment Room Archive : Gargoyles : Station Eight

I gave Greg B. a pass when he called "ThunderCats" out for having the cliche of heroes based on "cute" animals and villains based on "ugly" animals, because it simply does. Yes, the pilot did try to give the lizard race some sympathetic motivations, which the series deserves points for, but the lizards were still the ones who razed the cats' city. They are the villains. The lizards are not the characters the audience is meant to sympathize with to the largest degree. This is not their story. So, while ThunderCats tilted the cliche a little bit, it didn't topple it.

Greg, I also love your idea about taking that tilting all the way over. :) The intent of ThunderCats was more likely to have the nominally heroic race be able to allude to oppression and conquering but still be the heroes--and yet it's wonderfully tempting to imagine a series where the image of the cats as decadent conquerors was taken to its fullest. It would make for a far more interesting story, and would smooth out the inconsistency where we are expected to accept imperialists as the heroes.

The new ThunderCats cartoon is nice, at times, but it doesn't excite me that deeply. The fourth episode was the most entertaining so far.
Incisivis - [incisivis@hotmail.com]
"No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality--even dragonflies and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream"--Shirley Jackson
posted @ Sun, Aug 14, 2011 8:53:36 pm EDT from 96.52.104.202

HARLAN> Well, I went back and watched the premiere again, and it just got even creepier with the unfortunate implications.

I mean, so far the series has not given me a reason to think that what happened to the cats was a tragedy. Yeah, the lizards have motivations but we, as the audience, are not meant to sympathize with them.

And then here comes Mumm-Ra, and he kills this bigoted king. And the scene plays like this terrible moment, and yet I watch it and I see a racist tyrant getting struck down in a just manner.

The Cats are the British Empire, and the lizards are India, or any other area they colonized and brutalized.

Not only am I still wondering why Mumm-Ra is in this show, but based on what we've seen, the audience should be hailing him as a hero for striking down this evil king. But, since he has glowing red eyes, fangs, and is scary looking in comparison to the more human looking Cats, he's the bad guy. And why is he the bad guy? Because Jagga tells us he is.

Mumm-Ra wants his jewel back, but this is a bad thing because, again, Jagga tells us it is.

Since this is a "Gargoyles" comment room: If "Gargoyles" were "ThunderCats" you would have this great kingdom of Vikings who pushed gargoyles to extinction... and then the gargoyles attack them where they live and destroy their kingdom, especially under the leadership of Goliath who is essentially the boogeyman. Hakon takes up his father's mace and with survivors promises to avenge the lost Viking society.

Why do you think I've been going out of my way to recommend "Berserk" so much lately? It is, in many ways, the anti-ThunderCats. It knows exactly what it is doing, and subverts the cliches rather than going all out with them, and there are no unfortunate implications because actions have consequences there, and no one is evil just because we are told they are. Show, don't tell.
Greg Bishansky
Elisa Maza, why don't you just take that "sodie pop" can and stick the straw right into New York's eye!
posted @ Sun, Aug 14, 2011 8:43:53 pm EDT from 68.199.5.105

Masterdramon> But Dexter Morgan kills only other killers and other terrible people. Erik Sturluson is friendly with other terrible people.

And like Harvester says, what do we really know about Erik and Gunther? For all we know, Goliath, Elisa, Angela, and Bronx did have a run in with this messed up father and son, but were too distracted by Odin to notice. Besides, you can't trust people who live in isolated farms.

Why not? ;)
Greg Bishansky
Elisa Maza, why don't you just take that "sodie pop" can and stick the straw right into New York's eye!
posted @ Sun, Aug 14, 2011 7:28:46 pm EDT from 68.199.5.105

Well, to be fair, how much do we really know about Erik Sturluson's canon self? I haven't watched "Eye of the Storm" recently, though I probably should, but did that episode ever really go into depth about who he was or what he did? Has Greg ever dropped any hints at ASK GREG?

I'm just asking...
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Your psychotronic profile suggests high levels of destructive impulse, which might be why I find you so much fun to keep around. My own psychotronic profile is... well, never mind about that now." -Durandal
posted @ Sun, Aug 14, 2011 7:14:53 pm EDT from 97.102.10.159

New round of Formspring "Greg Weisman" responses are in. First, the proverbial "small-fry"...

Erik Sturluson (who, for whatever reason, is being played as an Expy of Dexter Morgan rather than anything resembling his canon self): How many people has he killed?

Iron Clan Robots (destroyed by Queen Mab): *The Iron Clan or rather, the smoldering scrap that remains of the Iron Clan are unable to answer this question*

Ares: My sister Athena thinks very highly of him. Which means he's either one of father's halfling bastards or some effeminate intellectual.

Ammut: *Ammut grins a toothy grin, and smacks her lips as if to say she wishes to devour Greg Weisman's Heart*

Haile O'Connor (everyone's favorite stalker-ish coroner from Marvel's "Gargoyles"): I don't know who that is. But Mort Todd is the greatest writer that ever lived.

Candleja- (oh, good, caught myself): The man is a genius, not to mention his good taste in literature.

And now with that out of the way, the resumption of the "New Olympians" subplot in the aftermath of [SPOILER] Mab's death [/SPOILER] means we've got a fair slew of new characters recently...

Amanda Chung: Terry liked... likes Young Justice.

Tri Chung: Used to have a roommate by that name.

Boreas: I have not met any humans other then Elisa Maza and Terry Chung. I'm afraid I do not know enough of this individual to form an opinion.

Helios: Taurus isn't too fond of him.

Ekidna: He is a threat to New Olympus like all humans.

Jove: Should I know who that is?
Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
"Doo doo doo, lookin' out my back door!" - John Fogerty of Creedence Clearwater Revival
posted @ Sun, Aug 14, 2011 5:48:42 am EDT from 66.91.120.80

GregX>"But I still don't understand why so many people are having orgasms over this show."

In complete fairness, one of your complaints about the pilot was unironically "Cats good, lizards bad" when the entire plot was driven by the cat society's racism.
Harlan Phoenix
posted @ Sat, Aug 13, 2011 8:36:38 pm EDT from 216.96.89.238

I also decided to put my money where my mouth is and write a spoiler-free review of "Berserk." For those of you who enjoy epic fantasy, sword and sorcery, I cannot recommend this series enough.

http://gregxb.blogspot.com/2011/08/at-cost-of-their-flesh-and-blood.html

And hey, it's better than "ThunderCats." ;)
Greg Bishansky
Elisa Maza, why don't you just take that "sodie pop" can and stick the straw right into New York's eye!
posted @ Sat, Aug 13, 2011 1:33:59 pm EDT from 68.199.5.105

It was good, but it wasn't great. It was a significant step up from the previous episodes, which were crap, though. But I still don't understand why so many people are having orgasms over this show.

If you're interested in seeing some epic fantasy that is never a cornucopia of cliches, I recommend "Berserk." Here's the trailer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNZkJFJacTM
Greg Bishansky
Elisa Maza, why don't you just take that "sodie pop" can and stick the straw right into New York's eye!
posted @ Sat, Aug 13, 2011 12:46:19 pm EDT from 68.199.5.105

Tini > Thanks for the recommendation. Wow, that was a good episode.
Rebel
posted @ Sat, Aug 13, 2011 12:38:19 pm EDT from 76.182.51.155

Anyone watching the new ThunderCats show? The latest episode "Song of the Petalars" was fantastic for multiple reasons. If you have the means, I highly recommend checking it out.
Anthony Tini
posted @ Sat, Aug 13, 2011 10:04:00 am EDT from 50.29.205.45

Yojimbo in the ToonZone forums scanned in all the Young Justice playing cards from Comic-Con. There's a Young Justice: Invasion teaser: http://www.toonzone.net/forums/showthread.php?283601&p=3891809#post3891809

The first Young Justice trade paperback collecting issues #0-6 is out in January: http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/news.php/news.php?action=fullnews&showcomments=1&id=1101
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]
posted @ Fri, Aug 12, 2011 4:10:47 pm EDT from 128.101.32.234

Battle Beast:<"Gargoyles. The only convincing argument that purple can be macho." LMAO.>

Well it is the color of royalty after all. LOL.
Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]
God Bless you All!
posted @ Fri, Aug 12, 2011 12:54:08 pm EDT from 99.156.232.54

Brainiac> Thanks for posting that video link.

While I'll admit I've never seen most of those shows, I do KNOW of them... And I must say (and I am probably being biased here) that Gargoyles should have been #1.

"Gargoyles. The only convincing argument that purple can be macho." LMAO.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
I DID IT!!! I WATCHED ALL 485 BEST PICTURE NOMINEES IN ONE YEAR!!!
posted @ Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:16:37 am EDT from 173.181.75.252

To be fair WITCH's first season wasn't that great. It's possible he never tried watching the 2nd season. Still the criticisms only prove how shallow some reviewers can be.
Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]
God Bless you All!
posted @ Fri, Aug 12, 2011 3:07:59 am EDT from 99.156.232.54

The Epic of Gilgamesh was written by a Japanese time traveler, whose life story was plagiarized and whitewashed by the BBC.
Harlan Phoenix
posted @ Thu, Aug 11, 2011 6:18:58 pm EDT from 216.96.89.238

That's how people are nowadays: "Every new tv series since the 2000s is garbage!!!1eleven. For example: Spongebob? WTF is this? WITCH? Never heard of it, must be shit!" Like if you know the title, you know everything. If you read the headlines of your shitty daily newspaper, you know the true story behind it. If it's Michael Bay directing a movie, it must be... OK that's true!
Neill - [neillgargoyle(at)gmail.com]
posted @ Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:46:07 am EDT from 87.151.98.165

Algernon: Ayup. My best guess is that Suede, like a lot of people I've tried to discuss the show with, got "W.I.T.C.H." confused with "Winx Club" and didn't think to research further when he was listing off examples of "bad American anime" (I'd also take some issue with the inclusion of "Super Robot Monkey Team Hyper Force Go!" on that list, though that's a far more minor complaint). The mention definitely left me with a bad taste in my mouth, especially since he's clearly a Garg-fan.

Still, Critical Research Failure in the first degree.

...Also, how in the Hell did "The Boondocks" not make that list? XP
Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
"Doo doo doo, lookin' out my back door!" - John Fogerty of Creedence Clearwater Revival
posted @ Thu, Aug 11, 2011 9:53:30 am EDT from 66.91.120.80

MASTERDRAMON> "Now his dismissal of "W.I.T.C.H." as a cheap anime cash-in like "Totally Spies," on the other hand...yeah, I think that's a bit harder to forgive. XP"

HE SAID WHAT!?!
Algernon
Man, 2010 was a crazy year. Remember when the monolith turned Jupiter into a star? Good times.
posted @ Thu, Aug 11, 2011 9:37:52 am EDT from 86.40.4.11

Thanks to Greg B and the Urban Dictionary, I've learned a new word today... weeaboos.
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"... And if we did it before, we can do it again." "And we will. Together." - Goliath and Elisa, "The Edge"
posted @ Thu, Aug 11, 2011 9:28:15 am EDT from 99.92.109.252

I'm glad Buffy took a cue from Dragonball Z and had seasonal villains.
Harlan Phoenix
posted @ Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:21:06 am EDT from 216.96.89.238

That's the most annoying thing about weeaboos, they see EVERYTHING through the prism of anime.
Greg Bishansky
Elisa Maza, why don't you just take that "sodie pop" can and stick the straw right into New York's eye!
posted @ Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:42:01 pm EDT from 68.199.5.105

While I agree that the list is premised on some fairly faulty notions - some entries clearly do display an anime influence in their character designs and visual appeal, such as "Teen Titans" and "Avatar: The Last Airbender," but others seem to be on the list solely for just being damn good, as if the only way an American cartoon can have deep and involved storylines is by cribbing off of Japan - but regardless of that, I'm not about to look a gift horse in the mouth.

Any positive review of "Gargoyles," IMHO, can only be a good thing; if this list inspires of couple of Suede's anime fans to take a look at the property, then I think I'm willing to cut him a bit of slack.

Now his dismissal of "W.I.T.C.H." as a cheap anime cash-in like "Totally Spies," on the other hand...yeah, I think that's a bit harder to forgive. XP
Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
"Doo doo doo, lookin' out my back door!" - John Fogerty of Creedence Clearwater Revival
posted @ Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:27:06 pm EDT from 66.91.120.80

At least we now know the truth: Gargoyles's writing and plot structure was inspired by anime, not cop dramas.

Good to know.
Harlan Phoenix
posted @ Wed, Aug 10, 2011 8:32:22 pm EDT from 216.96.89.238

The entire list was stupid because the term "American Anime" is retarded.
Greg Bishansky
Elisa Maza, why don't you just take that "sodie pop" can and stick the straw right into New York's eye!
posted @ Wed, Aug 10, 2011 8:29:32 pm EDT from 68.199.5.105

Gargoyles should've been #1... Exosquad should've been #2. *shrugs*
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"... And if we did it before, we can do it again." "And we will. Together." - Goliath and Elisa, "The Edge"
posted @ Wed, Aug 10, 2011 7:58:25 pm EDT from 99.92.109.252

Well, in case you were wondering why Disney might not care about the exact origins of their fake gargoyles movie: http://www.cartoonbrew.com/disney/disney-executive-story-is-irrelevant-to-our-company.html

"People say 'It's all about the story.' When you're making tentpole films, bullshit." - Walt Disney Animation Studios CTO Andy Hendrickson
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]
posted @ Wed, Aug 10, 2011 4:35:56 pm EDT from 128.101.32.234

BRAINIAC> I'm only three minutes into this video, but I already think the entire premise is complete bullshit. And I think anyone who uses the term "American Anime" should be smacked.
Greg Bishansky
Elisa Maza, why don't you just take that "sodie pop" can and stick the straw right into New York's eye!
posted @ Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:51:48 pm EDT from 68.199.5.105

World's Finest interviews Greg on how the Young Justice comics tie in with the animated series: http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/news.php/news.php?action=fullnews&id=1100
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]
posted @ Wed, Aug 10, 2011 12:52:52 pm EDT from 128.101.32.234

Suede's return to ThatGuyWithTheGlasses.com has a major shout-out for us.

http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/ir/suede/animenia/31992-top-11-american-anime
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!
posted @ Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:57:01 am EDT from 137.183.232.22

ARLO> Yeah, but I'm sure Greg's episode would have had nothing else in common save for focusing on Bronx. Kind of like how "Runaways" was "based" on a story about Brooklyn in Medieval Scotland.

Broadway didn't get a story focusing on him, nor did Angela. I think Angela's would have involved Demona and been much better than "Generations." I still hope we get it some time.

I'd say it's about three issues equaling one episode. #1 of the comic was about eight pages longer than the rest and had that not been the case, "The Journey" would have likely needed three issues to be told.

But throw in that one-shot that was "Reunion" and you have five "episodes" adding up to "Clan Building."
Greg Bishansky
Elisa Maza, why don't you just take that "sodie pop" can and stick the straw right into New York's eye!
posted @ Tue, Aug 9, 2011 8:44:03 pm EDT from 68.199.5.105

Yeah, I think he's actually said "A Bronx Tail" was based on an episode he'd had planned for the season.

Speaking of the number of episodes, how many comic issues makes up an ep? I've noticed that I felt like two was about an episode.
Arlo
Gargoyles need not apply.
posted @ Tue, Aug 9, 2011 7:14:05 pm EDT from 71.250.204.229

ARLO> Not enough time and space, keep in mind "Clan Building" is hardly the entirety of Greg's plans for the third season I think it only covered four or five episodes of what would have been a thirteen episode season.

I have little doubt in my mind that Bronx would have been the focus of another story had we gotten more issues.
Greg Bishansky
Elisa Maza, why don't you just take that "sodie pop" can and stick the straw right into New York's eye!
posted @ Tue, Aug 9, 2011 6:59:17 pm EDT from 68.199.5.105

What's this, semi-positive commentary on TGC? Who are you people and what have you done with all the real S8 posters?
Algernon
Man, 2010 was a crazy year. Remember when the monolith turned Jupiter into a star? Good times.
posted @ Tue, Aug 9, 2011 6:39:48 pm EDT from 86.41.121.251

Anonymous> Yeah, that's what I was saying. The canon TV series has had an episode about him, TGC had an ep about him, and the Marvel Comic had an ep about him. What's up with Clan Building?
Arlo
Gargoyles need not apply.
posted @ Tue, Aug 9, 2011 6:24:03 pm EDT from 71.250.204.229

Harlan Phoenix: I love his "Please, don't scare me. I may start to cry." line. I love the way Keith said it.
D. Taina
"The story is told -- though who can say if it be true..." -Shari
posted @ Tue, Aug 9, 2011 11:44:49 am EDT from 74.213.101.133

I find it interesting that the "Hound of Ulster", "A Bronx Tail" and the Marvel comic involving Bronx all center around Bronx befriending a young human male who is initially scared of him.
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"... And if we did it before, we can do it again." "And we will. Together." - Goliath and Elisa, "The Edge"
posted @ Tue, Aug 9, 2011 9:34:50 am EDT from 99.92.109.252

In regards to our favorite Gargate beast, you keep forgetting about the episode "The Hound of Ulster". Yeah, I know it was a part of the Avalon World Tour, and all that entails obviously. Yet Bronx still played an important part in that episode.
Anonymous
posted @ Tue, Aug 9, 2011 5:15:02 am EDT from 173.58.171.116

I thought Jackal and Hyena were pretty funny in "Broadway Goes To Hollywood". In particular I like when Fox says to Hyena: "I see you and your brother will still sell yourselves to the lowest bidder" (all quotes approximate). And Hyena replies: "Yeah, well, we can't all marry billionaires." Good stuff.
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"... And if we did it before, we can do it again." "And we will. Together." - Goliath and Elisa, "The Edge"
posted @ Tue, Aug 9, 2011 4:21:14 am EDT from 99.92.109.252

"How I enjoyed causing you grief."

Thailog is my favorite villain forever, and while I'm noooot sure how much it makes sense for him to say that...I do like that line.
Harlan Phoenix
posted @ Tue, Aug 9, 2011 3:38:24 am EDT from 216.96.89.238

Greg B> That's true.

Antiyonder> I actually felt sort of sorry for Kenny, even though he's one of the bad guys in that episode. He is only 18, after all.

That scene between Hudson and Robbins in "The Dying of the Light" was by far the best scene in the series. I would go far enough to call it TGC's saving grace. But there are other episodes I liked too.

"Angels of the Night" - I liked seeing the Gargoyles finally make peace with the humans, even though it goes against Weisman's principle of never wrapping up a series. Given how often canon material gets canceled, it is nice to have that "wrapping everything up" ending to hold us over while we wait for more.

"To Serve Mankind" - While I agree that the characterization and execution in TGC was way, way off, I do like the fact that this is an episode about the Illuminati manipulating the world's politics into wars in order to make money by selling weapons to both sides. In my opinion, that has enough depth to make this more than just an ordinary Saturday morning cartoon, even if the characterization was off.

"Broadway Goes Hollywood" - I think the writers sort of realized how off Fox's characterization had been in "Ransom," and tried to make up for it here. Unfortunately, they ruined it by being way off about the characterization of Xanatos and Goliath. As if those two would ever have a bonding moment like that one after everything Xanatos has done.

"A Bronx Tail" - I like that they understood the series enough to make an episode about Bronx. Most writers would just ignore the pet's character development. Interesting thing, the Marvel Comic also has an issue about him. So far, the only official Disney Gargoyles property not to have an issue just about him is the canon comic, oddly enough. And maybe the Disney Adventures comic, I don't have those so I wouldn't know.

"Genesis Undone" - I like that Goliath wanted to say goodbye to Thailog, and regretted his passing. Very in character.
Arlo
Gargoyles need not apply.
posted @ Tue, Aug 9, 2011 2:45:51 am EDT from 71.250.204.229

Anyway, some nice moments from TGC at least to me:

A. Ransom- Ignoring Fox's outburst and the monologue which states that money is the motivation for crime, I find the thing that makes the episode viewable is Lex's willing to protect Alex and just their friendship in general. Of course I still look forward to Greg's verson of the story as the bad elements will be a nonissue.

B. Runaways- Liked the ending where Kenny is arrested as he is so sure that he won't remain in custody, only for Elisa to wish him a Happy 18th Birthday.

C. Genesis Undone- Thailog's dying speech. "How I enjoyed causing you grief."

D. For It May Come True- Just because it's overdramtic, I found it funny when Goliath makes the "horrific" discovery that he's a glorified librarian working for Xanatos. Someone else mentioned it, but I'd have also go with Xanatos showing up at the hospital stating that he makes his own visiting hours.

E. Dying of the Light- Hudson and Robbins' interaction in addition to quote used in the comic is probably the best example of accuaracy to the characters.
Antiyonder
posted @ Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:20:25 am EDT from 50.46.17.45

ARLO> Keep in mind that when push came to shove that Lex didn't let his anger consume him. He could have taken a shot at the Pack, or saved Brooklyn's life. He chose the latter.

Brooklyn, well, if you read his inner thoughts, it was taking every ounce of his will power to so much as converse with her, and even then he called her on her BS.
Greg Bishansky
Elisa Maza, why don't you just take that "sodie pop" can and stick the straw right into New York's eye!
posted @ Mon, Aug 8, 2011 11:33:42 pm EDT from 68.199.5.105

I actually think it does. Like in the scene from Hunter's Moon, Part 1 where he wants to keep the element of surprise, and then loses control once he realizes it's Demona. My view of Brooklyn is that he wants to be the way he described to Lex - not letting it consume him. But when it comes down to it, he's just as bad as Lex.
Arlo
Gargoyles need not apply.
posted @ Mon, Aug 8, 2011 10:19:31 pm EDT from 71.250.204.229

To be fair, the noncanon stuff has some good moments and good ideas, but all to often the bad/mediocre is more plentiful. Infact I'll even post some of my other favorite TGC moments in a bit.

The Marvel Comic I have to credit for trying to be interest and feel more effort was put into it. I mean the Marvel Comic had a great deal more limitation to it with having to refain from any development, while TGC was a continuation where the crew could take more liberties, but played it safe for the most part (Genesis Undone and the planned ending for the series not withstanding).

And while TGC had one slighty good episode (Dying of the Light), the comic had 3 good issues (4 and 10-11, aside from some inconsistencies).

But to answer your question, Brooklyn was always self aware that of hatred and unlike Lex's hatred towards The Pack doesn't completely take top priority.
Antiyonder
posted @ Mon, Aug 8, 2011 9:38:54 pm EDT from 50.46.17.45

I guess we can at least agree on that. I do think the canon comic was better than TGC. Although, I don't complete hate TGC like most of you. I have to say, actually, I'm surprised you know the episodes so well. I thought most fans never watch TGC at all.

I hate to start another debate, but...

I actually thought Brooklyn was kind of out of character when he was able to control his anger against Demona so soon in the comic. I mean every time we've ever seen him, he's been overcome by anger when he sees her, and now all of a sudden he finally manages to control it at just the right moment. I get that it was a super-important moment and all, but still, I didn't quite buy it.
Arlo
Gargoyles need not apply.
posted @ Mon, Aug 8, 2011 9:03:43 pm EDT from 71.250.204.229

With the recent mention of the Clan Building finale, I think it further cements why Greg's plan for Season 3 would unquestionably outdo TGC as it was one of the stories to be converted into an episode for TGC (Runaways to be specfic). Just to look at the stories:

Runaways:
- Brooklyn runsaway from the castle after a quarrel with Goliath.
- We get some character deconstruction (Brooklyn will make a good leader someday).
- Brooklyn helps your average runaway kids.
- The villain is a one time character named Radar.

Only good moment is the eldest runaway (Kenny) not succumbing to the cliche of redeeming himself and that bit where Elisa mentions that he turned 18 and thus eligible for arrest (Happy Birthday).

Now The Gate/Tyrants/Phoenix on the other hand:
- Revisiting Ancient Scotland, and picking up the plot where Mary and Finella are on the run from Constantine.
- Brooklyn getting a look at himself who is in stone sleep.
- Brooklyn having to work with Demona while acknowledging that her morality back then was in question.
- Fleshing out more backstory of the characters (Gillecomgain, MaÃl Brigti, Findlaech, Bodhe). Even a reveal as to why The Hunter's mask has those marks.
- Plus, Brooklyn finally ends up with a mate in the series canon.
Antiyonder
posted @ Mon, Aug 8, 2011 8:05:04 pm EDT from 50.46.17.45

Whether Greg thought that Phoenix would be continued with more material in the near future or not, I feel he made it VERY clear that Phoenix was only an end to an arc with his closing line "Never The End". That, I believe, was both talking about the gargoyles franchise (meaning there were many more, even unlimited, stories yet to tell, but also a message to the readers and the fans. It reminds us that we've faced cancellation and finales before and have come back.

And in regards to the Marvel comic's use of a lightening bolt to hatch the gargoyle egg, I think I always assumed that it was some part of a magic counterspell. The egg was clearly not a normal gargoyle egg or it would've hatched a long time ago, so I figure there was some magical spell on it that prevented it's hatching until a lightening bolt hit it's little stand with lightening rod thing. I dunno. But is it really all that far off from "rising above the clouds" or the "sky burning"?

Ugh, I just defended the Marvel comics... I need to shower.
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"... And if we did it before, we can do it again." "And we will. Together." - Goliath and Elisa, "The Edge"
posted @ Mon, Aug 8, 2011 10:55:45 am EDT from 99.92.109.252

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