Comment Room Archive : Gargoyles : Station Eight

The first I saw was the Heroes Awaken movie (the abridged version of Awakening), which I rented from Blockbuster. The first regular episode I saw was Deadly Force, and then Enter Macbeth. However, I only saw it intermittently during season one, because it came on while I was still in school, and since it was only on Fridays I kept forgetting to set the VCR. Once season two started, it was airing daily at 4:00, so I became a pretty regular viewer.

I know some of the younger people reading might be thinking "Blockbuster? VCR?" Words like these prove I grew up in the nineties.
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
"And the dealer wants you to think that it's black or it's white/ Thank God it's not that simple, in my secret life." -Leonard Cohen
posted @ Sun, Oct 9, 2011 7:31:43 pm EDT from 75.76.235.156

Spen: I'm guessing that 9/28/1994 was a special early premiere? In which case I can only think of the Disney World event Greg mentioned in his early rambles . . .

As for me, I might have been six, but I definitely saw it back on 10/24/1994 . . . and was fortunate to catch the entire five-part Awakening that week :)

GXB: "Because he didn't know that iron was a specific weakness of the Children until "The Gathering Part One" when Owen flat out told him. Xanatos hypothesized the magic within the iron of the Cauldron would allow Coyote to hold on to Coyote. He just didn't know any iron would work.

Why didn't Xanatos know iron was a weakness? As per Puck's deal with Xanatos, Owen can't give him information that comes from Puck. But, by the time of "The Gathering," Owen/Puck was flat out defying Oberon and to hell with the deal."

When you break it down like that, it really demonstrates the difference between your good ol' typical Xanatos Gambit and -- as TVTropes describes it -- a Xanatos Roulette. d:

Young Justice -- bit of a tangent, but I've been watching the episodes for a second time, simply because I haven't really only seen each ep once by this point -- if anything, I'm getting a kick of seeing the occasional Captain Atom cameo/reference now that I've been reading the series by Bates/Weisman.
Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible . . . I hope it lasts," -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Sun, Oct 9, 2011 7:20:36 pm EDT from 74.242.252.188

Gargoyles was more of an acquired taste for me. I had grown up on The Disney Afternoon, and had already been let down by some of the cartoons they'd come up with in recent years (Bonkers, Quack Pack, etc.). I wasn't against Gargoyles when it came on, but it was a strong deviation from the more humorous cartoon shows I was used to seeing on TDA. So I had some reservations. Still, I remember seeing it advertised a lot, and I had some interest.

For some assignment or another, we were asked to write down what we did when we got home, and I noticed a classmate wrote "Watch Gargoyles." That made me turn it on the next time it was on, which was only once a week at that time. I'm pretty sure the episode what was on was "Awakening: Part 3." I still remember the line "Why don't you use a 'de-tec-tive?'" "You're learning fast." At that time, I just thought Xanatos was a regular good guy in the series. I didn't realize this was still only part 3 of the series premier.

I followed the show, but didn't become a die-hard fan until the following year when I saw episodes like "City of Stone," "The Gathering," and "Hunter's Moon." That was when I realized this was something special, and decided I *had* to see every episode and find out what the full story was. I made it my life's mission to record every episode at any cost - skipping school, spending my full allowance on new tapes, anything. Naturally, I fell in love with the show, and when they stopped airing it, I was glad I'd made those tapes. I've regularly watched Gargoyles at least once a year since then, and I've always considered it a regular part of my life. I guess I'm fortunate that I've never had to experience the disconnect some fans have when they can't find a station that airs it, or are frustrated with all the cuts some stations make.
Arlo
Gargoyles need not apply.
posted @ Sun, Oct 9, 2011 6:49:38 pm EDT from 71.250.204.229

I remember when Gargoyles first aired late 1995 in the UK, Disney Channel was Sky's newest channel and were showing previews about Gargoyles but it didn't interest me. I didn't start watching Gargoyles till early 1996 I saw bits of a City of Stone episode but still didn't interest me but soon as Episode High Noon come on I was hooked and was glued to the tv at 5pm every day.
VickyUK - [vickyfanofwwe@aol.com]
posted @ Sun, Oct 9, 2011 5:23:23 pm EDT from 195.93.18.38

The first episode I saw was Awakening: Part 2. And like Bishansky, I was addicted. Here in Edmonton, our local station, CITV, showed The Disney Afternoon on Saturdays for two hours (Gummie Bears, Rescue Rangers, Tale Spin and Dark-Wing Duck) and on Sundays (Tale Spin and Dark-Wing Duck) for one hour. I watched Gargoyles on Saturdays at first (They replaced Dark-Wing Duck), and I know it was the very first airing of Awakening: Part 2. A little while later, another channel, RDTV, started airing Gargoyles Monday - Friday, and I saw most of season two on the first airing. Awakening: Part 1, The Gathering: Part 1, and The Reckoning were the only two Episodes I never saw on the first run.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
I DID IT!!! I WATCHED ALL 485 BEST PICTURE NOMINEES IN ONE YEAR!!!
posted @ Sun, Oct 9, 2011 4:28:57 pm EDT from 173.181.79.166

Awakening Part One on October 24th, 1994. That was the day I became an addict...

... I can quit any time I want to! I just don't want to!
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
Elisa Maza, why don't you just take that "sodie pop" can and stick the straw right into New York's eye!
posted @ Sun, Oct 9, 2011 11:44:58 am EDT from 68.199.5.105

The first episode I saw was "Awakening, Part 4". The show was a stumble-upon find when I turned on the TV and thought an episode of "Star Trek: The Next Generation" was on because I heard Riker and Troi talking. Back in the days of tube screen TV, the sound came on immediately but it took five to ten seconds for the picture to appear.
Patrick
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Sun, Oct 9, 2011 11:28:48 am EDT from 76.190.228.74

Same as Todd, "Awakening, Part 1", 10/24/94. I wonder, did anyone here see "Awakening" on 9/28/94?
Spen
posted @ Sun, Oct 9, 2011 7:39:46 am EDT from 66.43.205.35

Two of my favorite humorous moments:

1. The scene in "Avalon Part Two" where the enhanced Archmage is talking to the Weird Sisters in 1020 and tells them to meet him again near Avalon in nine hundred and seventy-five years. The original Archmage cries "Nine hundred and seventy-five years?", whereupon the enhanced Archmage glares at him.

2. The scene in "Kingdom" when Claw hides inside his own wings from Fang's wrath.

First episode of "Gargoyles" that I ever saw: "Awakening Part One", the first time it aired. Not an original answer, I fear. I do remember wondering what that series would be like and feeling uncertain about it - but began to like it a lot the moment the "Scotland - 994 A.D." sequence began. (Vikings attacking a medieval castle - that's my kind of story.)
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
posted @ Sun, Oct 9, 2011 7:09:09 am EDT from 4.244.0.177

Honestly, this was so long ago and I was so young at the time that I truly have no idea. Being born in 1991, it wasn't until the earliest reruns on Toon Disney that I really remember watching the show.

But my earliest "Gargoyles"-related memory, I'm pretty sure, was receiving a Kenner Lexington figure at Christmas when I was six or so.
Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
"Can anybody find me somebody to love..." - Freddie Mercury of Queen
posted @ Sun, Oct 9, 2011 6:41:33 am EDT from 134.173.89.70

"Temptation" took my Gargoyles-virginity. : )
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"... And if we did it before, we can do it again." "And we will. Together." - Goliath and Elisa, "The Edge"
posted @ Sun, Oct 9, 2011 12:04:03 am EDT from 99.92.109.252

Jurgan> That was a funny video. "The Edge" holds a special place for me because it was the first Gargoyles episode I watched on TV after seeing "Gargoyles: The Movie" on video.

Hmm, maybe that can be the next discussion. What was the first episode you saw on TV?
Richard Jackson
posted @ Sat, Oct 8, 2011 11:42:38 pm EDT from 112.165.34.61

If we're talking about hilarious moments, one of them is something no one else ever seems to notice. In The Edge, Goliath meets Xanatos on the roof of the castle and rages about the robots impersonating them. Xanatos calmly tells him his entire plan and says Goliath should go along with it. Goliath rages, but seeing no way to win, he runs off and... smashes a lamp post. Why did he smash this lamp? What did it accomplish? Absolutely nothing, but it let him get his rage out, and I thought the sheer pointlessness of it was hilarious. As I had Lexington observe in my attempt at a Gargoyles Abridged series (not related to the other Abridged series, just my own attempt- click my name if you want to see): "He hates these lamps! Stay away from the lamps!" And then, years later, I rewatched The Cage, and saw Derek storm into Xanatos's office angrily, and swat over his desk lamp. Somehow I'd always missed that, but when I noticed I about died laughing.

On the other subject, I think Xanatos's main fear is inevitable mortality, not the idea of being killed. He wants to live forever, but I don't think he really imagines that anything can "kill" him directly. He controls everything around him, and he's not afraid of being taken down by his enemies because he's too smart, but Death is the one thing he can't control. Compare this to, say, Frieza from Dragon Ball Z, who wants immortality because he's desperately afraid that one of the people he oppresses will rise up to defeat him. In his case, he wants insurance that his tyranny won't turn around on him (Voldemort might be another example, but he's somewhere between these two, I think). Xanatos is only afraid of death because it's inevitable that he'll lose everything he's worked to build. He's a self-made man, after all- he doesn't want to give up what he earned. However, he's perfectly willing to defend himself against other threats without help- he'd probably be ashamed to win battles only through supernatural intervention. He just wants protection from age and inevitable death, and the rest he'll handle on his own.
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
"And the dealer wants you to think that it's black or it's white/ Thank God it's not that simple, in my secret life." -Leonard Cohen
posted @ Sat, Oct 8, 2011 10:51:46 pm EDT from 75.76.235.156

Greg B.> I guess my imagination is taking me as I far as it can. I don't know the kind of immortality Xanatos was seeking. Would he be content with the Ra's Al Ghul immortality that would let him live long, but not neccesarily be invulnerable or would he want the Vandal Savage immortality where he would be invulnerable as well as immortal? If he was counting on the latter, it would be very easy to test on Hudson. The only way to test the former immortality is to check in like Michael Apted with the "Up" documentaries.
Richard Jackson
posted @ Sat, Oct 8, 2011 10:02:32 pm EDT from 112.165.34.61

[SPOILER] He voiced Hamilton Hill as well, as I recall. [/SPOILER]
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!
posted @ Sat, Oct 8, 2011 9:44:33 pm EDT from 174.101.230.22

Brainiac: Wow, really? I wasn't able to catch the credits, so I couldn't confirm; I [I]did[/B] immediately recognize [SPOILER] Monsieur Burton playing Uncle Dudley at the end, but I didn't make the connection to him being anyone else in the episode. Still, quite a cool bit of trivia. [/SPOILER]
Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
"Can anybody find me somebody to love..." - Freddie Mercury of Queen
posted @ Sat, Oct 8, 2011 8:49:18 pm EDT from 134.173.89.70

Of course, iron being a weakness of Oberon's Children is an actual piece of folklore and legend, and Xanatos could have discovered that from any book on faerie-folk without needing to question Puck. On the other hand, he wouldn't know for certain if that legendary weakness was true or not (as King Arthur put it, "All things are true. Few things are accurate.").
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
posted @ Sat, Oct 8, 2011 8:20:22 pm EDT from 4.244.0.181

MATT> <<What I've always wondered was what was the point of melting the Cauldron down and incorporating it into Coyote? Iron is iron regardless if it found in a scrap heap or in the form of a magic pot, I would think. Certainly an obscure human magic wouldn't have any real significance for binding one of the Children, right? I know some claim this was Xanatos not wasting anything, but I consider it a huge waste of the Cauldron when ordinary iron would've done just as well. The Cauldron might not have been what Xanatos wanted it to be, but it could've been useful...>>

Because he didn't know that iron was a specific weakness of the Children until "The Gathering Part One" when Owen flat out told him. Xanatos hypothesized the magic within the iron of the Cauldron would allow Coyote to hold on to Coyote. He just didn't know any iron would work.

Why didn't Xanatos know iron was a weakness? As per Puck's deal with Xanatos, Owen can't give him information that comes from Puck. But, by the time of "The Gathering," Owen/Puck was flat out defying Oberon and to hell with the deal.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
Elisa Maza, why don't you just take that "sodie pop" can and stick the straw right into New York's eye!
posted @ Sat, Oct 8, 2011 8:03:43 pm EDT from 68.199.5.105

Richard Jackson> Actually, the Cauldron of Life DID work... it just didn't live up to Xanatos' interpretations/expectations.

What I've always wondered was what was the point of melting the Cauldron down and incorporating it into Coyote? Iron is iron regardless if it found in a scrap heap or in the form of a magic pot, I would think. Certainly an obscure human magic wouldn't have any real significance for binding one of the Children, right? I know some claim this was Xanatos not wasting anything, but I consider it a huge waste of the Cauldron when ordinary iron would've done just as well. The Cauldron might not have been what Xanatos wanted it to be, but it could've been useful...

For instance, has anyone considered that it would be the ideal way to deal with Demona? Throw in the pot, it won't kill her and she's immortal anyway, but she'd be frozen and couldn't hurt anyone... and when Macbeth was good and ready to die, he could just go smash her at his leisure! Not saying many characters would go for this, nor is it all that dramatic, but it is just a creativity demon that popped in hy head just now.
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"... And if we did it before, we can do it again." "And we will. Together." - Goliath and Elisa, "The Edge"
posted @ Sat, Oct 8, 2011 7:14:45 pm EDT from 99.92.109.252

Dear everyone,

I just felt it was my duty as an American citizen to inform you that I got to see boobs at the Occupy Wall Street protest on Wednesday. As some of you may be aware, women walking around topless is legal in New York as long as it isn't used to make money. No one is actually stupid enough to do it, but the feminists thought it would be fun to pass a law no one really cares about just for the sake of it.

So at the protest, this woman was topless to get attention for the movement or something. She wasn't terribly attractive, and part of me wondered whether she had previously been a man at some point in time, but she was there and she was topless nevertheless.

I just wanted to share that. Occupy Wall Street!
Arlo
Gargoyles need not apply.
posted @ Sat, Oct 8, 2011 5:52:16 pm EDT from 71.250.204.229

RJ> <<If he dunked Hudson in the Cauldron, how could he tell that Hudson had been granted immortality? >>

Use your imagination on this one. It's not that hard.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
Elisa Maza, why don't you just take that "sodie pop" can and stick the straw right into New York's eye!
posted @ Sat, Oct 8, 2011 5:33:01 pm EDT from 68.199.5.105

I was looking at the first and final drafts of the scripts to "The Price." The first draft by Michael Reaves helped answer a question I always had, but Greg Weisman took it out of the final draft, so it's not canon.

We know that Cauldron of Life's spell didn't work. But how was Xanatos to know if it did work? If he dunked Hudson in the Cauldron, how could he tell that Hudson had been granted immortality? Did he expect him to look younger? Or did Xanatos think it would be Demona style immortality where Hudson would be totally immune from death? So shooting or stabbing him would be the test? Or was Xanatos going to check in with Hudson in 10 years to see if he looked any older?

In Michael Reaves' original draft, Xanatos thinks the Cauldron will make Hudson younger. Eternal youth as well as eternal life.
Richard Jackson
posted @ Sat, Oct 8, 2011 4:17:43 pm EDT from 112.165.34.61

For some reason, I always laugh in "City of Stone" when Demona and Macbeth punch Xanatos simultaneously. I also laugh at the scene in "Avalon" when Angela and Gabriel introduce themselves to Goliath and Elisa, and the exchange that follows:

Goliath: "You've given them names?"
Angela: "Of course. How else could we tell each other apart?"

And of course, there's Lexington freezing in surprise at the end of "Temptation." Actually, one of the only reasons I laugh at it is because the writers were smart enough not to overdo it in the series. If it happened constantly, then any one occurrence of it really wouldn't be laugh out loud funny.

Also, I laugh out loud at just about anything Fang says. I'm not a Jim Belushi fan, but I loved him in this role. He somehow managed to breathe a lot of personality into Fang's smart-ass remarks so that he didn't come off as being obnoxious to the point where you couldn't tolerate him.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"You chicks are better than soaps!" -Fang ("The Reckoning")
posted @ Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:28:29 pm EDT from 97.102.10.159

I know many fans don't like Vendettas and I agree Hakon was horribly misused here but.... Vinnie was the star of that episode and made me laugh everytime.
Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]
God Bless you All!
posted @ Sat, Oct 8, 2011 1:33:04 pm EDT from 99.156.215.230

Masterdramon> I'm not alluding to that specifically. You might have missed it, but I was referring to his voice. I thought it sounded familiar and the end credits confirmed it. Indeed, as Greg warned us, [SPOILER] Nolan North is NOT the voice of The Brain [/SPOILER]. The actual voice actor leads to the source of the humor; [SPOILER] it's Corey Burton, better known to watchers of the DCAU as Brainiac [/SPOILER].

Humorous, no?
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!
posted @ Sat, Oct 8, 2011 12:10:28 pm EDT from 174.101.230.22

Brainiac: Not entirely sure what you mean by that. If you're alluding to the fact that [SPOILER] the Brain is very obviously the Nolan North-voiced L-6, first appearing in the ending tag for "Drop Zone," then I scarcely feel that needs noting. The exaggerated French accent and cylindrical silhouette made his identity patently obvious from the onset.

One thing I did find interesting, however, is that contrary to most of his comics appearances or his role in the "Teen Titans" animated series, Monsieur Mallah never actually spoke. Perhaps the experiment the Brain performed on him on Earth-16 is somewhat different than the one performed on Earth-1.

Of course, the fact that the two are lovers in the comics and probably aren't going to be hinted as such here means that this Mallah's going to be a very different animal in general...no pun intended. Makes sense, I suppose, as it leaves open the option for them to use Gorilla Grodd in the future without repeating too many of the same beats. [/SPOILER]
Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
"Can anybody find me somebody to love..." - Freddie Mercury of Queen
posted @ Sat, Oct 8, 2011 10:26:28 am EDT from 134.173.88.91

Glad you liked all the refereneces Masterdramon, but did you happen to catch the vocal "reference" found through the episode's primary villain?
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!
posted @ Sat, Oct 8, 2011 10:04:05 am EDT from 174.101.230.22

I guess the moment in Gargoyles that always makes me laugh out loud, even after all these years, is in Awakening when Elisa, Goliath and the newly named Hudson are on the roof of that building. Goliath picks up Elisa and they smile at each other and the camera cuts to Hudson... who has this priceless look on his face. I laugh at Hudson's look every time.
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"... And if we did it before, we can do it again." "And we will. Together." - Goliath and Elisa, "The Edge"
posted @ Sat, Oct 8, 2011 4:17:48 am EDT from 99.92.109.252

Just watched "Alpha Male" and it was awesome. Excellent character interactions all-around, and finally getting to see Captain Marvel after all this time did not at all disappoint. All in all, "Young Justice" continues its streak of fantastic episodes unabated.

Incidentally, loved the appearances/cameos from [SPOILER] Tawny the Tiger, Monsieur Mallah (wielding a gatling gun with REAL bloody bullets!), the Brain (in the flesh...so to speak), Krypto the Superdog (if only by name), and even Uncle Marvel himself! Now THAT cameo takes some impressive comics knowledge to pull off...and as Billy's guardian, to boot. Fun stuff, fun stuff... [/SPOILER]
Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
"Can anybody find me somebody to love..." - Freddie Mercury of Queen
posted @ Sat, Oct 8, 2011 1:47:24 am EDT from 134.173.88.91

Richard Jackson> I asked Greg about Bronx. Goliath did call him a watchdog, but...

Hello!

Greg,

Since we now call them "Beasts," if you could, would you change the line in "Awakening 1" from "I see you've met our Watch-dog..." to something like "I see you've met our Beast..." ?

Greg responds...
No. To Goliath, it is -- and always was -- a metaphor.

So Although he WAS calling him a dog, he didn't mean "Dog." It was a metaphor the Viking could understand.

Funny Lines: My fav: "Oh, sorry, no, I was too busy writhing in agony to notice."

"Yah, use the Force, Lex!"

"What are yolu going to do? Bite my kneecaps off?"
Battle Beast - [Canada]
I DID IT!!! I WATCHED ALL 485 BEST PICTURE NOMINEES IN ONE YEAR!!!
posted @ Sat, Oct 8, 2011 1:33:33 am EDT from 173.181.67.84

And the last two I can think of are:

Jackal fleeing and running around the corner into Goliath. We hear his scream and see through their shadows Goliath overwhelming him.

Banquo and Fleance's reactions when Macbeth tells them that they'll join the canister at the bottom of the sea if they don't recover it.
Richard Jackson
posted @ Sat, Oct 8, 2011 12:52:38 am EDT from 112.165.34.61

Richard: Definitely same episode, but just a few moments earlier: **zap** "Ow" **zap** "Ow" **zap** "Ow."

Off the top of my head, I'm also a fan of the Archmage's throwaway line in Avalon Part II to, well, the Archmage when they're "recruiting" Demona and Macbeth: "They're not warriors they're canon fodder. Trust me, we're not doing them any favors . . . "

I always get a crack out of Tony Dracon in Protection -- first when he sees Goliath and Broadway in the room, and he just flies over the couch in absolute fear . . . second at the end, when Goliath's delivering his "the reason you suck" speech and finishes making it his point by dropping him in mid-air . . . only to catch him of course. Part of me always thinks his hair should have gone MORE white after that.

Finally, I always laugh when Arthur took a mace to Westminster Abbey. Hey, the man HAD a date . . . with Destiny! **ducks for cover**
Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible . . . I hope it lasts," -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Sat, Oct 8, 2011 12:15:52 am EDT from 98.69.174.16

Masterdramon> That was good. As was Xantaos' hammy "It's alive! Alive!" in Re-Awakening.

For some reason, the barbs (and exposition) that Demona and Xanatos trade at the beginning of that episode makes me laugh too.
Richard Jackson
posted @ Sat, Oct 8, 2011 12:05:48 am EDT from 112.165.34.61

I think the funniest moment in the show, off the top of my head, was...

Sevarius: Oh, I get it. We're being watched, is that it? Very well.

>turns the Ham-o-meter up to 11<

YEEES! I betrayed you! You robbed me of my greatest creation! My ultimate achievement! I only took back what was miiiiiine!

>whispers<

There, how was that?
Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
"Can anybody find me somebody to love..." - Freddie Mercury of Queen
posted @ Fri, Oct 7, 2011 11:38:52 pm EDT from 134.173.88.91

Although Gargoyles didn't turn out to be the comedic series it was originally envisioned as, is there a "laugh out loud" moment for you in the series? I think the funniest moment in the show was when Goliath was smashing around Macbeth's mansion and Lexington and Brooklyn deadpan that Bronx must have found Goliath. Note: I'm only talking about funny moments within the canon, of course.
Richard Jackson
posted @ Fri, Oct 7, 2011 10:48:52 pm EDT from 112.165.34.61

RJ> Puck turning Bronx into a dog, I'm sure didn't help to lessen the misconception.
Antiyonder
posted @ Fri, Oct 7, 2011 9:57:10 pm EDT from 50.35.213.69

I think Bronx has always been kind of a mystery to casual fans. The Nostalgia Critic wondered what he was exactly. Everyone here knows this, but I like how Frank Paur modeled him more after a real dog instead of a cartoon dog. And yes, I do know that Greg Weisman said that gargoyle beasts should be viewed as analogous to chimps, but even Goliath called Bronx a "watchdog."
Richard Jackson
posted @ Fri, Oct 7, 2011 9:41:17 pm EDT from 112.165.34.61

To be clear, Ducktales got two additional volumes.
Antiyonder
posted @ Fri, Oct 7, 2011 8:57:52 pm EDT from 50.35.213.69

Wingless> I repeat, the first Gargoyles DVD sold well without advertising, thus it's not too implausible to think that Season 2 Volume 1 would have sold.

Infact, Chip N Dale Rescue Rangers, Talespin and Darkwing Duck each got a second release. Ducktales got two releases.

Or to go outside of Disney, The Adventures of Teddy Ruxpin received no advertisement, and even then all three volumes of the series sold, plus a series set was made.

You have several old cartoons in general which have sold enough to warrent more releases without advertisements, so why should Disney be expected to do any different?
Antiyonder
posted @ Fri, Oct 7, 2011 8:52:41 pm EDT from 50.35.213.69

Sorry for the double post, but I had to comment...

Wingless> It is even more bizarre that Disney doesn't want kids to know how to kill a vampire, but demonstrating lawnmower racing is a-okay! Thank goodness we have Disney watching out for those kids!
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"... And if we did it before, we can do it again." "And we will. Together." - Goliath and Elisa, "The Edge"
posted @ Fri, Oct 7, 2011 8:38:10 pm EDT from 99.92.109.252

Todd> Ha! Maybe we should coin a new term to go along with "humans with wings"... how about "dogs without pupils"?
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"... And if we did it before, we can do it again." "And we will. Together." - Goliath and Elisa, "The Edge"
posted @ Fri, Oct 7, 2011 8:35:13 pm EDT from 99.92.109.252

So, is Gargoyles available on Netflix in the US? I've checked in Canada and no dice(not surprising). It'd be worth my while if it where.

As for my earlier comments. I've already said this in here-so I sound like a broken record to long time fandom peeps-but the fact that you release a DVD-Any DVD without advertising is a a practice doomed to fail. Disney did that with ALL of the Disney Afternoon titles. Just released them with no advertising. The only reason I found out is through sites like the old Disney DVD release page and tvshowsondvd. Of course Dinsey dumps money into advertising all those tacky pre-teen action shows they have on. Hell, even Disney XD doesn't advertise that they air Gargoyles except when it's "Coming up next" but if I see one more ad for Kick Buttowski or Phineas and Ferb - I'll throw up. One such ad for Kick Buttowski has 2 characters racing around a lawn with 2 gas powered lawn mowers-half the time with them tipped up on their sides exposing the spinning blades!(gee, that's a really wise thing to be teaching your kids to do, but god forbid, don't say the word "Terrorist" in Gargoyles). *Tears hair out*
Wingless
posted @ Fri, Oct 7, 2011 8:35:13 pm EDT from 99.246.10.54

I found out from walt disney studios home entertainment team that they are planning to release Gargoyles The Complete Series DVD Set with all 78 episodes for all three seasons and more bonus features for 2012 release.
jonny modlin - [jmodlin210@gmail.com]
Jonny
posted @ Fri, Oct 7, 2011 8:24:39 pm EDT from 71.192.166.52

MATT - Yipes! Looks like I fell victim to a variant of the "imagining gargoyles as humans with wings" fallacy that Bishansky was talking about earlier.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
posted @ Fri, Oct 7, 2011 6:50:32 pm EDT from 4.244.0.216

Exactly.
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"... And if we did it before, we can do it again." "And we will. Together." - Goliath and Elisa, "The Edge"
posted @ Fri, Oct 7, 2011 6:17:49 pm EDT from 99.92.109.252

Actually, didn't Bronx only go after the tapestry because Demona was hiding behind it?
Antiyonder
posted @ Fri, Oct 7, 2011 4:49:00 pm EDT from 50.35.213.69

Angela also might've had some trouble carrying Bronx around in a basket...

Todd, I think the thing to remember that despite some similarities, Bronx isn't a dog. No gargoyle beast is. Gargoyle beasts can dig, but I'm not sure what would be the impulse to randomly dig up a garden. Beasts can rip up tapestries, we've seen that too, but we don't see any beasts doing that without purpose. They are obviously more intelligent than dogs and even though Bronx could still be considered a hatchling, we don't see him engaging in this activities without motive.

Fu-Dog is significantly older than Bronx. Moreover, it seems he has been trained in Xanadu to be a fierce and loyal protector. I imagine we will see him to be a much more serious, maybe even stoic, beast than Bronx due to his age, training and experience. I'm sure they will continue to get along, but I don't see them running around and wrestling like puppies or anything. Nor can I see Fu-Dog taking Bronx's place at Hudson's side or even neccesarily joining the pair in the tv room regularly. Obviously, we don't know much about Fu-Dog yet, but it just doesn't seem to be his style.

The thing is, we just don't really know a lot about beast-beast interaction in a clan, particularly when the two beasts are not mates and the same gender. I wonder how Bronx will respond to Fu-Dog joining the clan. On the one hand, I'm sure he's happy for the company and all that, but I wonder if he'll develop any jealousy or feel that his spot as the Manhattan Clan's beast has been usurped. I also wonder if Greg ever plans to have Boudicca join the clan.
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"... And if we did it before, we can do it again." "And we will. Together." - Goliath and Elisa, "The Edge"
posted @ Fri, Oct 7, 2011 9:51:47 am EDT from 99.92.109.252

RICHARD JACKSON - Sorry about that. I'd remembered Matt's note about putting up a "Wizard of Oz" entry at the GargWiki, and when I noticed that one had gone up, jumped to the conclusion that he'd been the one who'd done it. My apologies.

It's all the more a good thing that Angela didn't try dressing Bronx up at Toto, not only because he wouldn't have liked the costume (I wouldn't recommend putting reindeer antlers on him around Christmas, either), but because if he'd been at the party, he'd have probably made a beeline for the buffet table, front paws on the table, and start helping himself to the food. Hudson had the right idea of taking him along to Jeffrey Robbins' house (and it led to that lovely picture of Bronx and Gilly both snoozing on the floor).

I sometimes wonder how Fu-Dog's presence in the castle will affect Bronx's life-style. Will there be two gargoyle beasts sprawled out now by Hudson's recliner? Or will Bronx and Fu-Dog be racing about the castle (with Owen keeping a close eye on those two to make certain they don't decide to play "rip-the-rag" with expensive tapestries or dig up the garden)?
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
posted @ Fri, Oct 7, 2011 6:49:34 am EDT from 4.244.0.4

Yes, it was Matt's idea for the Wizard of Oz page. It never would have occured to me if he hadn't brought it up a few weeks ago. Also, Matt did a good job editing me ("tibbits") and putting up a great photo. I also drew upon his questions to Greg as source material.
Richard Jackson
posted @ Fri, Oct 7, 2011 5:51:55 am EDT from 112.165.34.61

Matt: I think the fact that we did hit that "magic number" for the Season 1 DVD (or at least got close enough that Disney decided to chance a second release) casts heavy doubt on your hypothesis.

Nevertheless, I say this not to make any individual fan feel bad about not doing more...hence why I used the word "aggregate." On the whole, I think we all could've done more to promote the DVDs and the comic - me included, certainly.

I totally agree with anyone that says it's unfair to expect the fans to act as the sole advertising machine for those releases...but those were the facts of the situation, whether we like it or not. If and when we get another chance like those, we cannot afford - again, as an aggregate - to be complacent any longer. We want more "Gargoyles" and want for any future "Gargoyles" releases to continue for a more extended period than previous ones? Then we've got to learn from our previous mistakes and fight for them.

That's the central message I wanted to impart.
Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
"Can anybody find me somebody to love..." - Freddie Mercury of Queen
posted @ Fri, Oct 7, 2011 5:29:41 am EDT from 134.173.88.145

Masterdramon> "Obviously, as an aggregate, we failed in that regard."

See, I wonder sometimes if it was less about our failure and more about our failure to live up to Disney's expectations. If Disney set a number that would've been almost impossible to hit, we shouldn't feel too bad (about ourselves) for failing to hit the mark.

Antiyonder> That would be a good idea. I know I purchased a couple extra copies of the trades for donation to libraries, but I hadn't thought about the DVDs. Donating to the library seems largely in the spirit of "Gargoyles" anyway.

Todd> Richard Jackson is right. I didn't write the "Wizard of Oz" page. I did write about it on the "Hound Of Ulster" page, which is probably what you read, and I think it was my idea to make the page at all. But I didn't write the actual page.

Your note about Bronx and Toto had me wishing that Broadway and Angela HAD done that on Halloween, though I doubt Bronx would've appreciated it.
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"... And if we did it before, we can do it again." "And we will. Together." - Goliath and Elisa, "The Edge"
posted @ Fri, Oct 7, 2011 4:21:27 am EDT from 99.92.109.252

Battle Beast> Another thing I suggest is to get libraries a copy of both the DVDs and the SLG Trades. Aside from the money spent to buy them, it really helps any casual fan to be aware of said products and drawing in new fans.
Antiyonder
posted @ Fri, Oct 7, 2011 2:18:42 am EDT from 50.35.213.69

Todd Jensen> Can you please look at the history of The Wizard of Oz page?
Richard Jackson
posted @ Fri, Oct 7, 2011 2:01:19 am EDT from 1.251.19.57

Has there ever been a commercial on TV for a TV show on DVD? Or a cartoon show on DVD? Has there? Ever?

I'm as upset as anyone that we didn't get Season Two, Volume Two. But, I don't expect it to get the type of special treatment other cartoon shows don't get.

On another note, I like to think that in a perfect world, Season Two, Volume Two gets released, and all the negatives and copies of "The Goliath Chronicles" fall off a pier, or burn up in a fire and that bucket of capybara cum never sees the light of day again.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
Elisa Maza, why don't you just take that "sodie pop" can and stick the straw right into New York's eye!
posted @ Fri, Oct 7, 2011 12:54:06 am EDT from 68.199.5.105

I know the Season 1 sales were good, but just think about how many MORE sets could have been sold with that one commercial. Reach MORE people that way, obviously. And Don't think I haven't spread the word about the DVDs and comics. I weqar my shirt proudly, and I've purchased about two dozen DVD sets ove the years, for family and friends. :)

But that really wassn't my point... I was talking about the MOD way to go. And Anthony made a good point about Netflix.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
I DID IT!!! I WATCHED ALL 485 BEST PICTURE NOMINEES IN ONE YEAR!!!
posted @ Fri, Oct 7, 2011 12:40:39 am EDT from 173.181.82.227

On a pleasanter note, I'd like to thank Matt for adding a "Wizard of Oz" entry to the GargWiki to commemmorate the various "Wizard of Oz" references in "Gargoyles" (such as the Banshee's "and your little dog too" line in "The Hound of Ulster" and Angela and Broadway attending the Halloween party in "Clan-Building" as Dorothy and the Cowardly Lion).

(It's probably a good thing that Matt wrote the article instead of me; I'd have been tempted to discuss the differences between the movie and the original book by L. Frank Baum - and while the basic story is the same in both versions, there are some major differences, including the Wicked Witch of the West having a much larger role in the movie than in the book. I almost suspect that the movie's production team beefed up the Witch's role after realizing that Margaret Hamilton would make her into one of the most memorable "fantasy movie" villains of all time.)

Matt also brought up the striking similarity between Bronx and the kind of dog Toto is - though it's a good thing that Angela went for a small stuffed Toto instead of trying to dress Bronx up for the Halloween party!
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
posted @ Thu, Oct 6, 2011 8:18:31 pm EDT from 4.244.0.210

Here we go again. Yep, the fandom sucks. We failed to launch an advertising campaign for the DVDs!

Don't get me started on the "I'll wait until Season 2 Volume 2 is out to buy Volume 1" thing. Way to shoot ourselves in the foot.
Patrick
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Thu, Oct 6, 2011 7:37:59 pm EDT from 76.190.228.74

Greg W. has outright said that if Disney had been required to spend any advertising revenue on the DVDs, they wouldn't have released them in the first place. Greg W. went out on a limb for us, claiming to the higher-ups that were in charge at the time that the DVDs would represent an out-of-leftfield windfall for Disney, which is the only reason why they got made at all.

He told them that the focused, dedicated "Gargoyles" fanbase would do the advertising for them at no cost...by spreading the word to family and friends and random strangers on the internet. Obviously, as an aggregate, we failed in that regard.
Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
"Can anybody find me somebody to love..." - Freddie Mercury of Queen
posted @ Thu, Oct 6, 2011 5:12:36 pm EDT from 134.173.88.145

Anthony Tini - It already has: http://www.youtube.com/
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]
posted @ Thu, Oct 6, 2011 4:21:22 pm EDT from 128.101.32.234

In recent years, I rarely buy DVDs of TV shows anymore. I just watch them streaming on Netflix.

It would be cool if the Gargoyles series was put on streaming where it might reach a younger generation.
Anthony Tini
posted @ Thu, Oct 6, 2011 4:01:14 pm EDT from 159.240.11.94

Rebel> When I'm buying DVDs of TV shows I constantly wait around until I can collect an entire season before I buy.

Which lessens the chance of the second volume getting a release. I mean if a particular show is popular enough, fans can afford to be more picky with the format, but with Gargoyles and shows that aren't in the public eye we don't really get the luxury of choosing to wait until the alternative comes along.
Antiyonder
posted @ Thu, Oct 6, 2011 3:20:00 pm EDT from 50.35.213.69

I don't really blame Disney for not advertising the Season 2 Volume 1 DVD. But I DO blame them for not releasing Season 2 Volume 2 at the same time. When I'm buying DVDs of TV shows I constantly wait around until I can collect an entire season before I buy. Revenue would have been higher, even if the product had been more expensive, if it contained all of Season 2.
Rebel
posted @ Thu, Oct 6, 2011 3:13:13 pm EDT from 69.134.102.225

Battle Beast> But I blame Disney. If they had just put ONE commercial on ONE DVD for Gargs, the sales would ahve been much better.

First DVD sold well without the advertisements, so I can't really say that lack of commercial is an accurate reason.
Antiyonder
posted @ Thu, Oct 6, 2011 2:06:51 pm EDT from 50.35.213.69

Anyone ever heard of the Warner Archive? Basically, they are releasing their back catalogue of films on MOD DVD-R's. And it's a HUGE Success. (I've bought a dozen or so from them).

Disney has followed suit, and has started to roll out some MODs. If they were to release Season 2, Volume two and/or TGC, I'm sure we'd all purchase them (I don't know about TCG, I would buy it just for sale's sake). If the sets were the highest selling MODs in thier MOD program, (or one of), it might catch them by surprise. (and no, this isn't the way I'd like to see Season 2 released, but if that's they only way to get an official release, I'll take it.)

Warners has had some similar occurances. It would be worth a shot to somehow get Disney's attention to release the series THIS way; after all, what would it hurt to loose? And it would make them money, too.

Wingless> Yah, I totally agree with you. The crap that gets released to DVD and yet no Gargoyles? It just isn't fair.

But I blame Disney. If they had just put ONE commercial on ONE DVD for Gargs, the sales would ahve been much better.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
I DID IT!!! I WATCHED ALL 485 BEST PICTURE NOMINEES IN ONE YEAR!!!
posted @ Thu, Oct 6, 2011 12:31:11 pm EDT from 173.181.79.146

World's Finest interviews Greg: http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/youngjustice/backstage/interview4.php It covers how Young Justice will build momentum to the season finale and YJ's differences from Gargoyles and Spectacular Spider-Man.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]
posted @ Thu, Oct 6, 2011 12:11:22 pm EDT from 128.101.32.234

Antiyonder - If they aren't in the top 300, I just put how much #300 sold with a less than sign (<).
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]
posted @ Thu, Oct 6, 2011 11:41:14 am EDT from 128.101.32.234

Thanks. Say, how did you get the sale figures for the ones not listed in the top 300?
Antiyonder
posted @ Thu, Oct 6, 2011 2:38:08 am EDT from 50.35.213.69

Antiyonder - http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/1850.html
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]
posted @ Thu, Oct 6, 2011 2:08:45 am EDT from 76.17.205.202

BTW, Landon, can I get the source for these sales. Someone else was interested in them.
Antiyonder
posted @ Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:36:47 pm EDT from 50.35.213.69

Landon Thomas> Thank you.

And honestly, that's one reason I can't fault Disney. Fans insist "Disney should give us more Ducktales or Darkwing Duck instead of that tween crap". Ok, Boom was havily responsible, but we got the ducks, yet barely any fans actually bought them.

And even if I can understand that single issues might be an inconveniece, I'd think the trades would have sold better, especially the final two Garg trades containing exclusive issues.
Antiyonder
posted @ Wed, Oct 5, 2011 4:38:41 pm EDT from 50.35.213.69

@Phoenician - Thanks! Makes sense now!
Anthony Tini
posted @ Wed, Oct 5, 2011 1:42:59 pm EDT from 159.240.11.94

Antiyonder -

In big sales months a lot of BOOM's titles drop off the top 300, so I've added what #300 sold as well.

Comics

06/2010 Darkwing Duck #1 - 6,300
07/2010 Darkwing Duck #2 - 5,396
08/2010 Darkwing Duck #3 - 6,355
09/2010 Darkwing Duck #4 - 6,658
10/2010 Darkwing Duck #5 - 6,527
11/2010 Darkwing Duck #6 - 6,565
12/2010 Darkwing Duck #7 - 6,330
01/2011 Darkwing Duck #8 - 6,020
02/2011 Darkwing Duck #9 - 5,813
03/2011 Darkwing Duck #10 - 5,822
03/2011 Darkwing Duck Annual #1 - 5,444
04/2011 Darkwing Duck #11 - 5,897
05/2011 Darkwing Duck #12 - 5,815
06/2011 Darkwing Duck #13 - 5,708
07/2011 Darkwing Duck #14 - 5,657
08/2011 Darkwing Duck #15 - 5,312

12/2010 Chip 'n Dale Rescue Rangers #1 - 5,387
01/2011 Chip 'n Dale Rescue Rangers #2 - 4,143
02/2011 Chip 'n Dale Rescue Rangers #3 - 3,834
03/2011 Chip 'n Dale Rescue Rangers #4 - not in top 300 (<4,499)
04/2011 Chip 'n Dale Rescue Rangers #5 - 3,577
05/2011 Chip 'n Dale Rescue Rangers #6 - 3,509
06/2011 Chip 'n Dale Rescue Rangers #7 - not in top 300 (<4,427)
07/2011 Chip 'n Dale Rescue Rangers #8 - not in top 300 (<3,531)

05/2011 Ducktales #1 - 7,208
06/2011 Ducktales #2 - 5,267
07/2011 Ducktales #3 - 4,966
08/2011 Ducktales #4 - not in top 300 (<4,514)

06/2010 Uncle Scrooge/DuckTales #392 - not in top 300 (<4,528)
07/2010 Uncle Scrooge/DuckTales #393 - 3,715
08/2010 Uncle Scrooge/DuckTales #394 - 3,610
09/2010 Uncle Scrooge/DuckTales #395 - not in top 300 (<4,702)
10/2010 Uncle Scrooge/DuckTales #396 - 3,636
11/2010 Uncle Scrooge/DuckTales #397 - 3,468
12/2010 Uncle Scrooge/DuckTales #398 - not in top 300 (<3,811)
01/2011 Uncle Scrooge/DuckTales #399 - 3,388

06/2006 Gargoyles #1 - 7,538
12/2006 Gargoyles #2 - 6,919
03/2007 Gargoyles #3 - 6,504
05/2007 Gargoyles #4 - 5,777
07/2007 Gargoyles #5 - 5,739
11/2007 Gargoyles #6 - 5,435
12/2007 Gargoyles #7 - 5,460
03/2008 Gargoyles #8 - 5,288

09/2007 Bad Guys #1 - 4,974
04/2008 Bad Guys #2 - 4,211
05/2008 Bad Guys #3 - 3,657
08/2008 Bad Guys #4 - 3,657
---
Trades

01/2008 Gargoyles: Clan-Building, Volume One - 1,454
08/2009 Gargoyles: Clan-Building, Volume Two - 884
08/2009 Gargoyles: Bad Guys - Redemption - 647

11/2010 Darkwing Duck: The Duck Knight Returns - 1,669
04/2011 Darkwing Duck: Crisis on Infinite Darkwings - 1,144

06/2011 Chip 'n Dale Rescue Rangers: Worldwide Rescue - 609

01/2011 Uncle Scrooge/DuckTales: Like a Hurricane - 577
05/2011 Uncle Scrooge/DuckTales: Messes Become Successes - 604
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]
posted @ Wed, Oct 5, 2011 1:16:33 pm EDT from 128.101.32.234

Tony: Greg mentions it here in his ramble in Grief:

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?rid=218

Basically, when the Emir has Anubis bound, no one can technically die . . . thus there was a beat in which Coyote could have shot the World Travelers at point blank range and they wouldn't have been able to die, thus making an (arguably) really cool get away compared to the one of Elisa "fairly elegant move"
Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible . . . I hope it lasts," -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Wed, Oct 5, 2011 12:08:53 pm EDT from 24.206.36.236

Can someone go into more detail on what Greg means by his comments here:
http://s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=13538

Specifically, the comment he made about the Pack being successful in killing off four of the main characters...I'm a little lost...
Anthony Tini
posted @ Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:53:46 am EDT from 159.240.11.94

Todd Jensen> Well, as someone guilty of following the mindset before, it's a lot easier to paint Disney as this cruel and heartless organization who hate animation and should just give us the rest of the shows to be charitable. It's a lot easier than admitting that a majority of the fanbase is passive.

Or to go another route, many clamour for Disney to give their Disney Afternoon programs more attention. Now I can't say how Ducktales is performing, but from #392 to 399, the Uncle Scrooge comics were used to distribute Ducktales stories that were previously unavailable in the US. Yet each issue sold under 4,000 copies. Granted comics aren't the most popular medium, I'd think that people demanding for more DA material would eat them up.
Antiyonder
posted @ Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:49:39 am EDT from 50.35.213.69

I think that the problem rose, not from Disney, but from all the people who said "I'll wait until they come out with Volume Two before I buy Volume One".
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
posted @ Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:32:16 am EDT from 4.244.0.56

Wingless et al.> I guess, basing this on no kind of solid information whatsoever, that the companies releasing less famous shows are doing so because those are the only shows they have to release. They want to make whatever money they can on whatever they've got. Disney is huge, with a huge back catalogue of shows and films, not to mention new things that are being produced, so they can afford to be picky about what they release. They'll only spend money on things that they expect to generate the largest return. As mentioned, Gargoyles didn't seem to fit the bill when people decided not to buy Season 2 Vol 1. It's a shame, but that's just how the industry works.
Supermorff
posted @ Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:29:11 am EDT from 62.25.109.195

Anyway, Landon I was wondering if you had the sales numbers for Chip N Dale Rescue Rangers #2-8 and for Ducktales altogether?
Antiyonder
posted @ Wed, Oct 5, 2011 12:28:34 am EDT from 50.35.213.69

Wingless> It's not so much that it's obscure, but more because Disney gave the show a chance, and on their second release it proved to be a poor investment. Don't know much about Mr. Sunshine, but it's only 9 episodes long if I'm correct and compared to the second half of Gargoyles Season 2 17 episodes more than Mr. Sunshine), won't be as costly.
Antiyonder
posted @ Wed, Oct 5, 2011 12:18:29 am EDT from 50.35.213.69

Antiyonder: Oh, I'm well aware of that. My point for saying what I said, is that other studios are releasing (and leasing titles) that had a lot less appeal or popularity than Gargoyles, and yet they're seeing DVD releases. I've seen extremely obscure catalogue titles get reissued that only lasted a season. Hell, the short lived Matthew Perry TV series "Mr. Sunshine" -which hardly lasted a season is being released on DVD. People CAN'T buy what isn't available TO buy-but if it's out there, at least you can get it. Even some companies have seen fit to do the Manufacture on Demand to get titles out to the fans. I'd rather not see Gargoyles done in that fashion, but it would be better than NOT having it.
Wingless
posted @ Tue, Oct 4, 2011 11:59:49 pm EDT from 99.246.10.54

Wingless> Sales declined on the first half of Season 2, so understandably, Disney felt that releasing another DVD would be a waste of money.
Antiyonder
posted @ Tue, Oct 4, 2011 11:19:21 pm EDT from 50.35.213.69

Regarding the second half of Season Two.. Guess all we can do is be patient.
SaxxonPike
posted @ Tue, Oct 4, 2011 11:00:50 pm EDT from 204.246.4.105

There is something totally wrong with this world when a series like "Aaahh!!! Real Monsters" can get a DVD release and Gargoyles still hasn't seen it's second season completed on DVD. Disney truly has their collective heads up their assets.
Wingless
posted @ Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:16:19 pm EDT from 99.246.10.54

RICHARD - No, I haven't seen it. Thanks for mentioning it, though.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
posted @ Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:59:51 pm EDT from 4.245.82.147

wow just finished reading the comic clan building vol 1 and 2 and it was great the art was even pretty good.. its realy a shame that, that is all... i want more.. lol i have taken a peek at some stuff on deviant art.com and its not to bad.. any other leads on gargoyle goodness i know of an other comic that was in a more dc/marvel <kill me for mixing up the 2 lol> type drawings
i have become once again obbessed with gargoyles
vilma - [vilmaxiii@yahoo.com]
posted @ Tue, Oct 4, 2011 2:05:13 pm EDT from 72.93.88.87

Todd Jensen> Have you ever seen the Stone of Destiny (2008) film? I'm somewhat interested in watching that. It's about the Stone of Destiny theft.

I never liked the Quarrymen as the Big Bad in TGC, although I have a soft spot for Gary Lee Packer, the Quarryman with a mullet and Maxwell, who never got his Silver Hammer.

On that note, I think the perfect title for a Gargoyles Quarrymen story would be "Quarrymen vs. Wings". *rimshot*
Richard Jackson
posted @ Tue, Oct 4, 2011 2:56:00 am EDT from 112.165.34.146

Greg and Brandon Vietti talk about the latest episode, "Homefront": http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/SuperHeroTooniverse/news/?a=47388&t=YOUNG_JUSTICE_EXCLUSIVE_Greg_Weisman__Brandon_Vietti_on_Homefront
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]
posted @ Mon, Oct 3, 2011 11:30:53 pm EDT from 76.17.205.202

RICHARD JACKSON - Reminds me of an entry in "Monarchs, Murder, and Mistresses: A Book of Royal Days" about the recovery of the Stone of Destiny from Arbroath Abbey in 1951, which mentioned that three of the four students who broke into Westminster Abbey in 1950 were present in the crowd when it was returned to Scotland in 1996. (Just as well Macbeth didn't have a reunion with them while he and Arthur were there; he'd have had a hard time explaining why he still looked the same as forty-six years earlier.)

I think that the Quarryman stories would have been better if the bulk of the Quarrymen *had* been ordinary citizens. For one thing, it would have made fighting them harder for Goliath and his clan; if the Quarrymen are just more mercenaries, fighting them is no different from fighting, say, the Pack or Dracon's gang. But if they're mostly ordinary New Yorkers - the very people whom the gargoyles have sworn to protect - they'd have to avoid battle with them. Not to mention that Demona would be exploiting that to convince Goliath and the others that humanity was a menace to gargoyles - not just power-hungry rich guys or criminals, but the public in general. So many lost opportunities....
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
posted @ Mon, Oct 3, 2011 7:23:57 pm EDT from 4.244.0.16

Christopher Jones reminisces about drawing Gargoyles: Bad Guys #3: http://blog.christopherjonesart.com/?p=334 and breaks down Young Justice #8: http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/youngjustice/backstage/breakdowns/08.php
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]
posted @ Mon, Oct 3, 2011 6:36:43 pm EDT from 128.101.32.234

I never liked the Quarrymen to begin with... I felt the show was diverse enough that it didn't need the constant threat of the Quarrymen who could smash the Gargoyles at any moment hovering over their heads.

I never saw them as the "big bad villian" but one of the many diverse villians the show created. But unlike X-Men comics where every month there was a new villian (Magneto, Toad, Mole Man, White Queen, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, The Scout Master, Etc.) I think the new production team choose to focus on the Quarrymen because they were the looming force, the menace out to get the heros. They couldn't use Xanatos, because he was the reformed villian who now helped the Gargoyles. (Not what Greg had envisioned...) so the choices were to reuse old villians (Jackle and Hyena were used in Broadway Goes Hollywood but the Quarrymen were new, fresh, and more of a current threat.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
I DID IT!!! I WATCHED ALL 485 BEST PICTURE NOMINEES IN ONE YEAR!!!
posted @ Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:44:47 pm EDT from 75.152.110.60

I don't know if this has been brought up before, but one of the Scottish patriots who removed the Stone of Destiny from Westminster Abbey was a guest at a Scottish event called "The Gathering 2009." http://www.cosca.net/documents/gatheringeventdetails.pdf
Richard Jackson
posted @ Mon, Oct 3, 2011 1:12:16 pm EDT from 112.165.34.146

Tenth
Chip - [<------The League of Extraordinary Nerds Here!]
"An explanation of cause is not a justification by reason." C. S. Lewis
posted @ Mon, Oct 3, 2011 12:47:20 pm EDT from 96.35.213.38

Ninth in the name of responding to Battle Beast's finale post from last week.

BB, I am not obsessed with Kellogg's Raisin Bran so I have no idea why you're calling me that. And yes, it is for Ohio State.
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!
posted @ Mon, Oct 3, 2011 9:15:12 am EDT from 137.183.232.22

8th.

Continuing my thoughts about the Quarrymen as handled in "The Goliath Chronicles" from last week, I've come increasingly to suspect that the new production team simply thought of the Quarrymen as the "Big Bad" without giving enough attention to how they were depicted in "The Journey". Yes, they picked up that the ostensible motive was xenophobia, but they also wrote the Quarrymen as if they were simply public super-villains (like the Pack after Season One), ready to use obvious super-villain tactics against the gargoyles (hiring Jackal and Hyena to frame Broadway, assault and battery agsinst the PIT Crew, fake distresses to lure the gargoyles into traps, the heavy artillery in downtown Manhattan, attacking a passenger train). They were treated as if they were just the regular super-villain nemeses to the gargoyles, like the Joker to Batman or the Green Goblin to Spider-Man.

But one of the central points in "The Journey" was that the Quarrymen were mostly frightened citizens whose fears Castaway played upon; he had a few mercenaries like Banquo and Fleance, but they weren't the norm. The production team apparently forgot this - or else they decided to deliberately ignore it so that they could have the Quarrymen act like regular nefarious super-villains (who did everything short of threatening to blow up the city with a stolen bomb if the gargoyles didn't surrender themselves), which would be harder to pull off if a lot of them were basically honest, law-abiding citizens who were simply afraid of the gargoyles and wanted to do something to protect themselves. And they probably didn't want to end "Angels in the Night" with people like Billy and Susan's mother, the Jogger, and Art and Lois getting the handcuffs snapped on them and led away by the police along with Castaway; they'd have seen that as too much of a bittersweet ending. (The likelihood that the Quarrymen, under Greg Weisman's vision, probably wouldn't be going far enough to attack passenger trains probably didn't occur to them - though I still suspect that the attack on the passenger train was a late addition to the script after Greg talked them out of the original "the gargoyles and Elisa run away" ending.)
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
posted @ Mon, Oct 3, 2011 7:20:16 am EDT from 4.244.0.39

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