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Gargoyles

The Phoenix Gate

Comment Room Archive

Comments for the week ending October 30, 2011

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Comet: Yes, she is! She even has the "purple hair" goof that I can't seem to get rid of. And I just realized that her collar isn't visible in that pic...
D. Taina
"Teamwork is so overrated." -Thailog

Paul> Yeah, it'd be a good idea to do so, as long as you keep it friendly. And if it's exactly like the example you provided below, then that looks perfectly alright to send to them.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582@gmail.com]
Grr. Arg.

PATRICK> And now we know what Nokkar looks like naked.
Algernon

D. Taina> Is that second one Shari? :D
Comet
I'm shipping off...to find my wooden leg!

While it might not help to write Disney about their tentative plans, I'm pretty sure it won't hurt. Nevertheless, I thought I'd show you guys what I would write them:

"To Whom it May Concern,

"It has come to my attention that Disney has tentative plans to release the remainder of the 'Gargoyles' series in 2012.

"I write to inform you that I am pleased by this news and intend to purchase the second half of Gargoyles' second season as soon as it becomes available.

"Sincerely..."

Should I actually write them this letter/email, or would that be a bad idea?

Paul - [nampahcfluap@yahoo.com]

If Disney does the release next year I want to get one autographed by Johnny.
Gorebash

MDY: Wow, that looks great. That reminds me of what I did with The Sims 3. I created a bunch of Gargoyles characters for the game and then I put them in the same house and watched them interact. Bwahaha! You can see some of them here:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y278/dtaina/GargoylesSims.png

D. Taina
"The story is told -- though who can say if it be true..." -Shari

Interesting news about the famous heads on Easter Island:

http://seeker401.wordpress.com/2011/10/29/easter-island-heads-have-bodies/

Patrick
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka

Thanks :)
I'll tune them when the full game turns up in a couple of weeks.. at the moment you can only upload to their community site - you can't download them again to edit further.. Plus there should be more clothing etc.. options in the full thing.. Ideally there would be a darker brown hair colour too - the next one up from black is way too light for Xanatos sadly.. It's not a million miles away though :)

MDY

MDY: The Macbeth looks great in that picture - so badass. The Owen and Xanatos ain't half-bad either, though the latter and Dingo definitely needs darker skin.
Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
"Fat Bottomed Girls, you make the rockin' world go 'round!" - Freddie Mercury of Queen

Not posted here in ages.. But was very glad to hear about the possibility of the rest of the series turning up on DVD at last.. :)
Having Gargoyles on my mind, I was... (inspired might be a bit too strong a word..) but anyway.. I got the early demo of for Saints Row the Third in-game character creator and tried to recreate a few of the human characters in the editor..
http://i41.tinypic.com/o8grnp.jpg

MDY

Landon: Hot damn, looks like the series is going to start going at a steamroller pace from here-on-out (if it wasn't already, LOL). I mean, [SPOILER] the incapacitation of the League, full introductions to the New Gods, and HARM in the space of just three episodes?! [/SPOILER]

I'm excited. Very, very excited.

Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
"Fat Bottomed Girls, you make the rockin' world go 'round!" - Freddie Mercury of Queen

The World's Finest interviews Brandon Vietti: http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/youngjustice/backstage/interview5.php

There's no Young Justice tonight but the first 3 Fridays in November have new episodes: http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/news.php?action=fullnews&id=1165

Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

Bit of a tangent, but I caught this article on CNN the other day:

http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/19/world/europe/uk-viking-boat-burial/index.html

In short, its about the first fully intact Norse grave (specifically a boat burial) they've found in the UK. While I imagine there's probably Viking ruins scattered all across the UK and Ireland, this archeological find stands out mostly because it takes place the Scotland Highlands (with excavations taking place in the Ardnamurchan peninsula, not that far from - as speculated by GregW - Castle Wyvern's original location).

Plus, the grave is currently being dated back to some-1000 years ago d:

Phoenician
"Not a bad life, all things considered . . ." -- Hudson

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=13595

So Superboy does cook. I wonder how well he does.

Antiyonder

Discovered a book at Barnes & Noble today called "Scottish Miscellany: Everything You Always Wanted To Know About Scotland The Brave" by Jonathan Green. It has sections on various elements of Scottish history, legend, and culture. Among these are Princess Scota, Macbeth, the Stone of Destiny, and the Loch Ness Monster. (Other Scottish elements it covers that haven't shown up in "Gargoyles": thistles, William Wallace, Robert the Bruce and the spider, golf, Mary Queen of Scots, Rob Roy, Bonnie Prince Charlie, bagpipes, tartans, kilts, Burns' Night, haggis, and "Auld Lang Syne".) The Introduction comments on the strong Scottish heritage in the United States (many of the Founding Fathers were of Scottish descent, as were John Paul Jones and Bill Gates); that would certainly apply to Goliath and his clan, since they're Scottish gargoyles transplanted to the U.S. (Well, mostly, now that we've Katana and Fu-Dog, both of whom come from the Far East, and Nashville is Japanese on his mother's side. We don't even know if Nashville visited Scotland during the TimeDancing.)
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]

Finally some hope for a DVD release?

If I may ask, how did you get an answer from Disney Home Entertainment? (what email address?) I'd like to ask them if they have plans for more Disney Afternoon DVD releases.

steet - [steetboris@yahoo.fr]

Scratch that, they've emailed James at Toon Zone as well: http://www.toonzone.net/forums/showthread.php?288327&p=3926364#post3926364 We'll see if anyone runs with it.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

I never suspected that Jonny faked the email. But there's still the fact that Disney refuses to confirm anything to Toon Zone or TVShowsOnDVD. It may be that the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing at Disney but I remain cautiously optimistic until they release genuine press on it.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

Is this a reason to bombard Disney with e-mails? Anyway good news, I hope someone of the consumer service isn't just kidding.
Neill - [neillgargoyle(at)gmail.com]

While 'tentative' isn't the same as being confirmed, it's at least better then nothing at all. I mean, at least there's a *chance* of Gargoyles S2V2 finally coming out.

Let's just keep doing what we've been doing, sending friendly emails and letters to Disney.

KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582@gmail.com]
Grr. Arg.

What I meant to say is that several KP episodes were written by Greg Weisman.
Antiyonder

I'll definitely set some money aside when/if the date is announced.


Anyway, Kim Possible had a reference to Gargoyles in the episode Big Bother, as well as having several voice actors from the show and a couple episodes (Big Bother being one of them). So would that qualify it for a page on GargWiki (like say Freakzoid and Darkwing Duck)?

Antiyonder

**Steps out from lurking**

So... This is an interesting development... Would love to have champagne once "tentative" becomes "official" from Disney...

I'll definitely be watching...

The One Known As Mochi - [shogi.keima.08@gmail.com]
Current Mood: (>O.o)> Tentative...

Um, WHAT????? This is the best news I've had in ages!!! But I am going to huzzah CAUTIOUSLY, since the plans are "tentative.""

:D

Battle Beast - [Canada]
I DID IT!!! I WATCHED ALL 485 BEST PICTURE NOMINEES IN ONE YEAR!!!

We can only hope it's true. It would be the best news I've had in months.
Wingless

I'm with Algernon with this one . . . definitely waiting for something from the Big Man - no not L. Thompson Lincoln - Greg Weisman, himself ;)

But man, talk about being cautiously optimistic . . .

Phoenician
"Not a bad life, all things considered . . ." -- Hudson

GREG B> Wow... looks like Jonny was onto something after all. I'm not going to break out the Champagne until we get something a bit more solid then "tentative". Still, this is a good sign.
Algernon

I received the following email earlier this morning, which falls along the lines of what others have been receiving from Disney:

James,



Thank you for your e-mail. We appreciate your interest and are happy to answer your questions.

There are tentative plans to release the rest of this series in 2012. No further details are available at this time.



To view our release calendar and see what great titles are currently available and coming soon, please visit http://disneydvd.disney.go.com/release-calendar.htm.



Thank you for taking the time to contact us.


Sincerely,

Walt Disney Studios Home Entertainment Consumer Relations
US and Canada

James Harvey - [bbeyond@yahoo.com]

gxb - thanks for the excellent news if and only if it is true. I just hope somebody's leg isn't being pulled with you saying that.
dph of rules
Whatever happened to simplicity?

Greg B -- awesome news if it happens (cautious optimism, not for distrusting you, but rather until it's officially announced then it's still just an un-finalized business decision that may or may not change by the time next year rolls around). Having said that, that link leads to an error, but if you replace ".htm." with ".html" it leads to the release calendar.
here is the url for anyone else that was clicking the link and getting an error http://disneydvd.disney.go.com/release-calendar.html

TheGeek
http://www.squidoo.com/thegeeklens-cartoons

So... I just received this e-mail:

Greg,

Thank you for your e-mail. We appreciate your interest and are happy to answer your questions.

There are tentative plans to release the rest of this series in 2012. No further details are available at this time.

To view our release calendar and see what great titles are currently available and coming soon, please visit http://disneydvd.disney.go.com/release-calendar.htm.

Thank you for taking the time to contact us.

Sincerely,

Walt Disney Studios Home Entertainment Consumer Relations
US and Canada

Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
Elisa Maza, why don't you just take that "sodie pop" can and stick the straw right into New York's eye!

HARLAN> B5 does have a guy sue aliens for abducting his great grandfather if that tickles your fancy?
Algernon

Algernon>"No Jumanji style antics for the B5 crew"

My hands are pretty tied, here.

Harlan Phoenix

I love all six Star Wars films with Episode 2 being my least favorite due to lack of chemestry between the characters. I agree that the older ones are better than the prequels, but when you watch them, in order from I - VI, as the collective story of Darth Vader, it's a quite powerful and tragic story.
Anthony Tini

Antiyonder> "Depends. Have you watched any Star Wars movie yet? Meaning to check out the oldest films, but again, procrastination."

Yeah, I've seen them all. The older ones (from the 70s-80s) were better then the prequels. Episode 1 was decent with an interesting story, some good ideas, and lots of action. Though Jake Lloyd just annoyed me and Jar-Jar dragged the movie down in all of his scenes.

Episode 2 was too Anakin-themed for my taste. Too much angst lovey-dovey with Padme. I get that those scenes were somewhat necessary to set him up as Darth Vader later, but, still, it didn't seem like a true SW film.

Episode 3 was similar to episode 1, except with no Jake Lloyd, less Jar-Jar, and more Anakin angst/turning to the dark side.

KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582@gmail.com]
Grr. Arg.

Anthony Tini - Forgot about that. We do have one more scheduled: "Cartoon Network has also scheduled the new Young Justice episode "#16 Failsafe" to air Friday, November 4th, 2011 at 6:30pm (ET)." http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/news.php?action=fullnews&id=1134

No idea how the rest of November looks though.

Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

No new episode of YJ this Friday makes me frown, but it's turned upside down as ThunderCats is back with a new episode from its mystery 7 week break! Hooooooooo!
Anthony Tini

HARLAN> No Jumanji style antics for the B5 crew but it's still arguably the best sci-fi show to ever come out of American TV. You should definitely watch it if you ever get the chance.

AND you should also watch DS9 seasons 3-6. Amazingly you can be fan of both shows.

Algernon

Bishanky> Well, do they get sucked into a board game?
Harlan Phoenix

KingCobra 582> Wow, exactly the same here. That's almost scary. LOL.

Depends. Have you watched any Star Wars movie yet? Meaning to check out the oldest films, but again, procrastination.

But as for Star Trek, eventually I will give DS9 and Voyager a shot. Though I checked out the first four episodes of DS9 Season 5 mostly to see the Trials and Tribble-Ations episode. And to my surprise, the episode was available on TOS Season 2 Remastered, thus allowing me to get it without blindly purchasing the entire DS9 Season to get it.

At this point, I'm at least a fan of TOS, TAS, TNG (Though I only have VHS of some episodes and a couple movie whereas with TOS and TAS I have most of it save for the relevant movies) and the reboot. Incidentally, has anyone picked up some Trek comic books?

I have the three Tokyopop Manga printings of TOS stories, the single volume of TNG and both crossovers with X-Men. And right now I'm currently getting the Star Trek/Legion of Super Heroes mini (#1 came out this month).

Antiyonder

HARLAN> Watch "Babylon 5" instead. Once again, to quote Bruce Boxleitner... "We had writing." ;)
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
Elisa Maza, why don't you just take that "sodie pop" can and stick the straw right into New York's eye!

DS9 on Netflix> Huh, so there is. Well, good. :)
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582@gmail.com]
Grr. Arg.

Antiyonder> "Depending on the timing, it takes a while before I get into a new hobby. To take Star Trek as an example, I didn't start watching it regularly until I was 24 (2006). Or in the case of Avatar The Last Airbender, I didn't start regularly until Season 3."

Wow, exactly the same here. That's almost scary. LOL.

Harlan> "So I totally need to watch DS9."

Ditto. And now I can't help but wonder if there are any streamed episodes on Netflix. *goes to look*

KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582@gmail.com]
Grr. Arg.

Algernon>"Though somehow I can't picture a creative genius like JMS coming up with "Crew gets sucked into a board game" or "episode guest starring Rumpelstiltskin"."

So I totally need to watch DS9.

Harlan Phoenix

Late to respond, but:
Arlo> So as I've mentioned once or twice on here before, I am an avid Vampire Diaries fan. The show anyway, not the books, which makes it even more pathetic. I detest Twilight, and I wouldn't be a grown man who watches a teen vampire soap opera if I could help it. But it's just so addicting.

Anyway, I have to say I'm surprised more Garg fans aren't into it. It does have some similarities, such as the element of something traditionally scary being the protector, a cocky, always in control villain who has something of a good side in him, and periodic flashbacks to various periods in history. I'm surprised more Garg fans aren't hooked.


Depending on the timing, it takes a while before I get into a new hobby. To take Star Trek as an example, I didn't start watching it regularly until I was 24 (2006). Or in the case of Avatar The Last Airbender, I didn't start regularly until Season 3.

And really there was no dislike on my part, just procrastination.

As for Star Trek, I actually got into it through the Animated Series which the library had all of on VHS at the time, then I would occasionally watch the original series and further got into it after seeing the 2009 movie.

Later that year I checked out episodes of TNG and got into that series as well. Anyway, I'll type more later on the subject.

Antiyonder

The Young Justice Season 1, Vol. 2 DVD is out today with episodes 5-8: http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/news.php/news.php?action=fullnews&id=1162 Piecemeal releases must make money, I guess.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

I strongly agree with Landon. Seasons 3-6 of DS9 were some of the best Trek ever, IMHO. Season 7 was alright. I feel that if Enterprise had been allowed to continue past Season 4, it would have surpassed even the best of TNG and DS9. Season 4 was awesome and the next few seasons dealing with the Earth-Romulan War and the birth of the Federation would've been gold. Voyager had its moments, but seemed like a lot of fluff. Frankly, if it hadn't been for the Doctor and Seven of Nine, I would've probably hated the show.
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"... And if we did it before, we can do it again." "And we will. Together." - Goliath and Elisa, "The Edge"

Harlan Phoenix - Like TNG and Enterprise, the first 2-3 seasons of DS9 sucked. Plagiarism is bad m'kay, but it only affected the worst season of the show. The later seasons of DS9 contain the best TV Trek that's ever been made, IMHO. It was basically Ronald Moore cutting his teeth for Battlestar Galactica. There were some arcs at the end that took 10-20 episodes to complete, unheard of for the franchise. It's my favorite Trek series and that's from someone who grew up with and loved TNG.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

HARLAN> Well there's also the fact that JMS's original proposal to Paramount included about 20 episodes worth of story synopsis for what would eventually become the first season of B5. I haven't seen the first season of DS9 in well over a decade (like I said, the show's early years were really rocky), so I can't comment on how individual episodes compare to individual episodes of B5. Though somehow I can't picture a creative genius like JMS coming up with "Crew gets sucked into a board game" or "episode guest starring Rumpelstiltskin".
Algernon

I don't understand.

So all of DS9 is bad because the pilot might've been forged, but its years of mostly original content don't count?

Wouldn't just the pilot be morally atrocious then?

I'm not familiar with either franchise, I'm just really confused.

Harlan Phoenix

Forgot my avatar!
Algernon

GREG B> Sigh… I love ya Greg, I really do. But I do feel somewhat obliged to challenge you on this.

First up a few disclaimers. I'm a huge DS9 fanboy so I can't really claim to be unbiased or not feel a certain urge to defend one of my favourite shows. However, B5 is also one of my favourite shows and I won't deny it's the better show overall. If for no other reason then that DS9 didn't really get consistently good until around its third or fourth season. By contrast, B5 pretty much hit the ground running and only got better from there.

Secondly, I don't really disagree with anything JMS says in that statement but he does include a lot of important qualifiers that I think we need to keep in mind. This situation is a bit more grey then you characterize it.

***
"It is a *fact* that the two pilots for DS9 and B5 are extremely
similar on major, non-generic points. It is also a fact that the two
diverge quite a bit therafter, showing that the writers there were
capable of doing their own stuff, putting us back again at the studio
level."

"It is a *fact* that I have never, at any time, implied, stated
or said that either of the individuals who created DS9 had ever seen
the B5 material, or consciously took it. I think that if asked to do
so, they would have declined. What I have always questioned, or
strongly suspected, was the degree to which the development or
inception of that show was guided by the Paramount development execs.
So I have NOT accused either of them of "ripping off" B5"

"I've never accused either of the two folks who created DS9 of deliberately ripping us off because I don't believe they did so. I have no reason to
believe they are anything other than honorable, stand-up men. My area
of concern has always been in the area of corporate influence and
intent."

***

Over a third of JMS's statement is dedicated to reiterating that he doesn't believe Rick Berman, Michael Piller or any of DS9's writing staff were aware of the B5 material in Paramount's possession. Rather he believes that Paramount's execs MAY have influenced the development of the series without the creative team knowing where their bosses were getting some of their ideas.

To my thinking, this really makes it less an example of artistic theft and more like the artistic equivalent of unknowingly receiving stolen goods. Something for which individuals are hardly ever prosecuted.

Now do I personally believe that there may have been some influence on DS9's development from Paramount execs with access to JMS' pitch? Yes. I believe there MAY have been SOME influence.

I could probably dismiss stuff like the no nonsense second in command or the lovably misanthropic security chief as just reoccurring archetypes. But when each show has a character named Dukat? It's not impossible that JMS and the Creative team on DS9 came up with the exact same made up word independently, but it's be a Hell of a coincidence. But considering how vastly different the two Dukats are…

Honestly, my overall attitude to this is much the same as my attitude to the "Did Jack Kirby help create Spider-Man?" debate. I wasn't there and neither were you. JMS' himself says all he has is supposition. AFAIK, neither Michael Piller, Rick Berman or any representative of Paramount have ever commented on the issue one way or another.

Algernon

Would asking if Matt Bluestone was pointedly fired from the FBI or if they gave him a face saving (and career saving) option of "accepting his resignation" be too much of an original idea to ask Greg? I would think getting fired from the FBI would follow someone if they tried to join another law enforcement agency. Then again, it's not like those agencies really share information.
Richard Jackson

Greg B.> That was me below, the 'Anonymous' guy. My internet was being weird. :P

"There are great episodes of TOS, great episodes of TNG"

Heck, yeah, there were. :)

There's a reason that Trek 2 is so well-known, and it's not just the 'KAAAAHN!' thing. It's not my most favorite sequel, but it is up there on the list. Great story, great characterization, and the ending was unexpected. I won't give away the ending in case there's anyone here who hadn't seen Star Trek 2, but I will say that the ending is great, well worth leaving the door open for Star Trek 3.

"But over time it became less about telling stories and became a franchise instead."

Don't accuse me of nitpicking here, because I'm really not. But the problem with that is that there's only so much creativity (and that can also be attributed to lazy writers) that can be done in any given series. Once the muse runs out, it just becomes a choice of 'we can end it here because there's really nothing new to do anymore,' or 'we can have a clip show to keep the viewers happy while we struggle for new stories'. There's even the unfavorable option of 'Let's just doing retcons for the sake of the show. Sure, the fans will cry foul, but oh well.'

KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582@gmail.com]
Grr. Arg.

For the record, I enjoy some Trek. There are great episodes of TOS, great episodes of TNG, and "Wrath of Khan" is one of my favorite movies. But over time it became less about telling stories and became a franchise instead.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
Elisa Maza, why don't you just take that "sodie pop" can and stick the straw right into New York's eye!

GregB.> Ah, bringing legalities and competitive studios into a Star Trek discussion. How very producer-like of you. :P

I also gotta agree with Bruce's quote at the bottom of your post, there. On paper, pretty much every Star Trek show, while enjoyable, are also all pretty much the same: a crew of humans and mixed alien species traveling the stars. From what I've seen, the most story-driven ST series was Voyager, which consisted of a series-long arc about the crew ending up 75,000 (That WAS the number, right?) light years from home and trying to get back.

That's not to bash on any of the various 'Trek' series, though. Even the ones that I didn't care for. Don't want to start a flame war, after all. Just giving my own perspective on it.

Anonymous

ANTHONY TINI - This is prompted by your remark on all the "Young Justice" spoiler questions in the "Ask Greg" queue.

I asked my share of "Gargoyles" questions that could be considered spoiler requests in the days before the comic book came out. (I remember being especially curious about Duval being both the head of the Illuminati and the guardian of the Holy Grail, since a lot of the Illuminati's activities were the kind of thing that the Holy Grail - at least as portrayed in Malory - wouldn't have approved of.) But back then, I never really thought that we'd get more canonical "Gargoyles" stories. And there were a couple of times after the comic book came out when I regretted having learned so much (especially with "Bad Guys" #2 where practically all the developments, such as Hunter recruiting Yama and how she does it, and Sevarius breaking Fang out of the Labyrinth, were things I already knew about - though Greg made up for it by such details as the look of pain on Yama's face as he forbids Sora to share his exile).

But "Young Justice" is still coming out with new episodes, which defeats the purpose of asking what will happen (or is happening) in the series. If we're patient, we'll see how things turn out in the next episode (at least, those of us with cable). Do we really want the surprises to be ruined?

Maybe the questioners are just impatient - but because of the size of the queue, they'd probably have to wait almost as long for Greg's answer as for more episodes.

Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]

KING COBRA> <<Never seen DS9 and, quite frankly, I keep forgetting about it. Is that show any good? >>

Sure, if you enjoy artistic theft.

Let's quote J. Michael Straczynski on this, shall we?

***

What can be suggested, in the case of B5, is to provide certain
facts, which are next door neighbors to truth. It is a *fact* that
Paramount was given the B5 bible, treatment, sample screenplay, and
artwork. This is not open to dispute; we have the paperwork from the
Paramount development execs.

It is a *fact* that Paramount and WB were both trying to launch
networks at the same time, UPN and PTEN, and that there is a *fierce*
competition between them that has been well and widely documented,
enough so that Paramount would have a vested interest in attempting to
co-opt anything that Warner Bros. was doing. One way to do this (enter
supposition stage left) would be to put out their *own* space station
series, under the ST banner, which would hopefully undercut the other
show and drive it (and PTEN) out of the marketplace.

It is a *fact* that the development of ANY TV show for a studio
is guided by that studio's development execs.

It is a *fact* that the two pilots for DS9 and B5 are extremely
similar on major, non-generic points. It is also a fact that the two
diverge quite a bit therafter, showing that the writers there were
capable of doing their own stuff, putting us back again at the studio
level.

It is a *fact* that I have never, at any time, implied, stated
or said that either of the individuals who created DS9 had ever seen
the B5 material, or consciously took it. I think that if asked to do
so, they would have declined. What I have always questioned, or
strongly suspected, was the degree to which the development or
inception of that show was guided by the Paramount development execs.
So I have NOT accused either of them of "ripping off" B5, and thus
don't fall prey to your accusation of being unfair, whereas Joel's
comment about Mindwar *was* a statement about a story being ripped
off, hence my reaction. There is not a contradiction there.

From day one, Paramount has done everything conceivable to
subvert, sabotage, and drive this show out of the market short of
firing a LAWS rocket into the middle of stage A. They hate us over
there, because they want to have the exclusive lock on space SF. So
yeah, I'm quite willing to believe that they could've decided to co-opt
our format...and it almost worked, too, when WB wondered if the market
could sustain two space station series, and we came within an inch of
losing the show before we'd even shot a frame of film...but I've never
accused either of the two folks who created DS9 of deliberately ripping
us off because I don't believe they did so. I have no reason to
believe they are anything other than honorable, stand-up men. My area
of concern has always been in the area of corporate influence and
intent.

jms

***

I love this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=srGxni0Wic0#t=32s

"As opposed to an episode of Voyager or DS9. We had less than half the budget, but here's the thing: we had writing, they didn't." -Bruce Boxleitner.

Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
Elisa Maza, why don't you just take that "sodie pop" can and stick the straw right into New York's eye!

DS9 was my favorite of the Star Trek series. I liked the fact the it was darker than the others, although my favorite espisode was TNG season 7 episode "Lower Decks".
Adam - [carl006_1999@yahoo.com]

Todd : "Not in this case." Hehe, true.

KingCobra : "with the exception of Angel, Season 5." Yeah. I kinda lump the shows together in my mind, so 'post-Buffy' automatically excludes Angel.

Greg B. : I was wondering, on your blog, were you planning on doing any more "Dexter" commentary this season?

Spen
"The problem with quotes on the Internet is that it is often difficult to determine whether or not they are genuine." - Abraham Lincoln

Never seen DS9 and, quite frankly, I keep forgetting about it. Is that show any good?

Battle Beast> "Zach Quinto (Spock) was on Regis and Kelly about two weeks ago and mentioned that they start filming in January with a 2013 release."

Cool. That is great. If 2012 just comes and goes, I'll be sure to check it out. :P

Matt> Fair enough. You are entitled to yours.

KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582@gmail.com]
Grr. Arg.

KingCobra> Zach Quinto (Spock) was on Regis and Kelly about two weeks ago and mentioned that they start filming in January with a 2013 release.

Voyager, for some reason, was always my favorite. DS9 was great, too. Both series had their great moments and boring moments.

I own both of 'em on DVD; just waiting for the updated new special effects blu-Ray release of TNG before I buy 'em.

Battle Beast - [Canada]
I DID IT!!! I WATCHED ALL 485 BEST PICTURE NOMINEES IN ONE YEAR!!!

Greg made a funny and I almost missed it since I normally skip all the asinine YJ spoiler questions in the queue.

http://s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=13557

Look at question #3. The Anonymous person meant to ask about the "Batmobile" but instead asked about the Bat "Mobile" and Greg told him/her to check out the works of Alexander Calder. So after a quick Google search, I learned from Wikipedia that Mr. Calder was an American sculptor and artist most famous for inventing "mobile" sculptures.

Good one, Mr. Weisman. It was nice to find that hidden gem in the YJ chaos.

Anthony Tini

KingCobra> That, of course, is your opinion. Enterprise was a great show, especially its last season. I think it ended much too soon as all the modern day Star Trek shows seem to hit their peaks in their 4th through 7th seasons.
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"... And if we did it before, we can do it again." "And we will. Together." - Goliath and Elisa, "The Edge"

That was a strange countdown ^^
Comet
I'm shipping off...to find my wooden leg!

RJ> "I've probably seen about a dozen of the original series, about 20-30 of Next Generation, and none of Voyager or Enterprise."

The original series was fun, Next Generation is even better, Voyager had its good episodes, but (aside from the presence of Seven Of Nine) was mostly bad, and Enterprise? Stay far away from it, trust me.

As far as the movies go, I've seen them all, with 'Star Trek IV' and the new one being my faves so far. Speaking of, is there new news on the next film? I've heard about it months ago and then nothing about it since then.

KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582@gmail.com]
Grr. Arg.

Update: Watching one episode of Awakening a night is quite a challenge.
Lurker

I'm not a Trekker (Trekkie?) but I watch Star Trek quite regularly; and I have seen almost every episode and movie (Except Enterprise; only seen a few of them)

The Tribbles episodes are my favorites. Loved 'em both.

Anyone ever watch The Waltons? I was watching it the other day, and Johnathon Frakes did a guest spot as a romantic interest for one of the Walton girls named Ashley Longworth. Anyway, one of his lines was, "...how litteral minded." I laughed so hard. He palyed such a different character that Riker or even Xanatos. I knew Frakes was on the show a few times, but I had totally forgot. Neat to see him again on the show. he Guest spots a couple more times.

Battle Beast - [Canada]
I DID IT!!! I WATCHED ALL 485 BEST PICTURE NOMINEES IN ONE YEAR!!!

King Cobra> Continuing from last week.."Trials and Tribble-ations" is the only DS9 episode I have ever seen. I only watched because of "Trouble With Tribbles." The episode was written well enough to be accessable to someone not familiar with the show. I'd like to go on record saying that I'm not a major fan of Star Trek. I've probably seen about a dozen of the original series, about 20-30 of Next Generation, and none of Voyager or Enterprise.

I've only seen a handful of the Star Trek movies "Wrath of Khan", "Undiscovered Country", "Generations", "First Contact", "Insurrection" and the new "Star Trek" movie. "First Contact" is one my favorite films, but I look upon it as a self contained sci-fi story.

And I'm not a Star Wars fan either. However, I'm working on an article for the Gargwiki which may destroy my credibility of that last statement.

Richard Jackson

Sorry about the double, I saw vinnie took two spots and decided THIS was a countdown I wanted to be a part of. My countdown number is especially fitting, as I was 10 when Gargoyles premiered.

17 years. My God. I remember seeing the preview commercial once or twice. Running home after school, literally running, so I could catch the premier and every episode thereafter. Enough to make me feel a little choked-up. Nearly getting a lump in the back of my throat.

Phoenician> I do believe I will join you in watching one episode of awakening everyday. It must be providence. I just received my season one back from a friend, to whom I lent my seasons so she could show her son.

She said that at first, he was watching the episodes alone. After a while, she remembered why she liked the show so much and they now watch them together. They are now somewhere in season 2.

It's nearly 1 AM. I believe I will raise a put in the DVD, raise a toast, and enjoy the beginning chapter of a phenomenal series.

In the already spoken words of Vinnie, "And away we go on with the show."

Lurker - [!)]

Ah, thanks for the info. I wasn't aware. I guess I got into Gargoyles a little later than most of you.
Arlo
Gargoyles need not apply.

Arlo: Indeed there was; "Awakening Parts I-V" first ran on consecutive weekdays starting on 23 October 1994, before switching to a Friday-only schedule with "Thrill of the Hunt" onward.
Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
"Fat Bottomed Girls, you make the rockin' world go 'round!" - Freddie Mercury of Queen

10!
Lurker - [!)]

(9and10)Ninth and Tenth!!!!!!!!! And away we go on with the show.
Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]
God Bless you All!

8th.

Phoenician> Good idea. I will. :D

KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582@gmail.com]
Grr. Arg.

Wait but I thought Gargoyles only aired on Fridays the first year of its run. Or was there a week-long marathon for its first premier?
Arlo
Gargoyles need not apply.

Okay, seventh counting Jurgan. Still toasting, though!

>salivates over the mention of Arkham City<

Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
"Fat Bottomed Girls, you make the rockin' world go 'round!" - Freddie Mercury of Queen

Er, sixth. And I saw the fifth entry, too. I'm stupid (or just not thinking straight from staying up way too late playing Arkham City).
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
"And the dealer wants you to think that it's black or it's white/ Thank God it's not that simple, in my secret life." -Leonard Cohen

Sixth! I toast you all on this fine anniversary with he heartiest wine...minus the wine part.
Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
"Fat Bottomed Girls, you make the rockin' world go 'round!" - Freddie Mercury of Queen

5th!

"SEVENTEEN years ago today"

Archmage: SEVENTEEN YEARS?!

October Monday isn't that rare, it happens one out of every seven years. Leap year must have thrown it off in the nineties to cause an eleven year gap. Well, I watched Awakening on the Heroes Awaken VHS, and didn't see the unedited version for some time later, but happy anniversary to those who did!

Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
"And the dealer wants you to think that it's black or it's white/ Thank God it's not that simple, in my secret life." -Leonard Cohen

5th! Glad to be home.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
I DID IT!!! I WATCHED ALL 485 BEST PICTURE NOMINEES IN ONE YEAR!!!

4th to raise a toast to the Anniversary.
Chip - [<------The League of Extraordinary Nerds Here!]
"An explanation of cause is not a justification by reason." C. S. Lewis

Nope, Greg B beat me to it. Make that third.
Arlo
Gargoyles need not apply.

Second, provided no one else posts before I click Post.

Wow, 17 years ago today. And on the same day of the week! Amazing! Maybe I should watch the episodes again. But I just watched them again a few months ago, so I'm not sure if it's time yet. What to do? Maybe I should just wait around for the next time this rare, astrological phenomenon occurs.

Arlo
Gargoyles need not apply.

Seventeen years? Good gods!
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
Elisa Maza, why don't you just take that "sodie pop" can and stick the straw right into New York's eye!

FIRST to say Happy Anniversary!! :D

Yes, SEVENTEEN years ago today, "Awakening: Part One" first aired, which means that (for those in a real celebratory mood) this whole work week is one big anniversary of Awakening's five-parts-in-five-days broadcast premiere.

For those curious, its not often for October 24th to fall on a Monday. Before this year, it happened in 2005, and before that it was . . . well, 1994. d:

Anyone else considering the idea of watching the five parts to "Awakening" one day at a time this week just for the sake of pure nostalgia? :)

**raises a glass to all those who worked on Gargoyles and to everyone who keeps the fandom going**

Phoenician
"Not a bad life, all things considered . . ." -- Hudson