Supermorff: You would be correct in that thinking.

We're simply working to finalize everything before the "cleaning" can begin, next weekend.
Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
Back, queue! Back I say!
posted @ Sat, May 5, 2012 10:02:41 am EDT from 68.32.165.95

I just thought of a possible guideline for "Young Justice" questions, though I don't know how well it would work:

"'Young Justice' is set in its own continuity. Just because something happened one way in the comics or in previous animated series based on DC Comics, doesn't mean it will happen that way in the show."
Todd Jensen
I'm a Hufflepuff!
posted @ Sat, May 5, 2012 7:13:02 am EDT from 4.244.213.9

Todd> That response made me laugh too. In fact I was going to post it here until I saw you'd beaten me to it.

Gore> I appreciate you thinking it over. I hope the idea is useful even if you don't implement it in that form. Also, I second Matt's point about everyone here appreciating the work you do on the site.

I notice that Greg has listed out all the guidelines in a ramble. Good stuff. And I've already seen the guidelines listed on the Ask A Question page (which I used to make my example list of questions, below). There's some slight differences, though. There's two new guidelines in the ramble (the rudeness rule and the "WE LIKE OUR SHOW" one), and the list in Greg's ramble mentions when posts can/will be DELETED. Am I right in thinking that the guidelines on the Ask A Question page will be updated to include these extra points next week, when the moderators start going through the queue?
Supermorff
posted @ Sat, May 5, 2012 3:33:01 am EDT from 86.182.30.176

Colton: The closest answer we have to that is a question involving the religions of the League. Quoting Greg:

"I'd have to do some research and heavy thinking on this question. Mostly, I just don't know. But most are Christians by heritage if not in practice. The obvious exceptions are Aquaman & Wonder Woman, who are pagans and Martian Manhunter, who worships the gods of M'arzz. Red Tornado is studying multiple religions. I also know from writing the comic book that Captain Atom was raised Catholic, even if he doesn't practice it much. Zatara's probably Catholic too. Hawkman & Hawkwoman worship whatever religion people worship on Thanagar. I think that covers it."

Inferring from this...

Robin: Don't know.

Aqualad: Almost certainly a pagan like his mentor, worshipping some version of the Greek Pantheon.

Kid Flash: In Greg's words, "I guess he thought he was" an atheist. Post-"Denial," it's harder to say.

Superboy: I'd be very surprised if he's even given it any thought.

Miss Martian: Like her uncle, I'd wager pretty strongly she worships the Gods of M'arzz.

Artemis: Don't know.

Zatanna: Raised Catholic, but as to how observant she is about it personally, we can't really say.

Rocket: Don't know.

That should provide a decent primer, I think.
Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
Back, queue! Back I say!
posted @ Sat, May 5, 2012 12:41:52 am EDT from 68.32.165.95

Hey, some Gargoyles were in Canada recently:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wfTv5TnJUg

But the most touching moment came from some outsider:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zvb8HEO6Koo
Gorebash
posted @ Fri, May 4, 2012 9:57:37 pm EDT from 70.22.245.139

Wat are yj's religions?
Colton - [Coltongambrel@ymail.com]
Colton g.
posted @ Fri, May 4, 2012 9:13:05 pm EDT from 184.43.30.213

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=14785

*cough*BLACK SPIDER*cough*
Gorebash
posted @ Fri, May 4, 2012 8:27:03 pm EDT from 70.22.245.139

For the record, I totally support Supermorff's plan of attack... or, defense, really. I suspect it could do a lot of good. And at the very least, it couldn't hurt.

I would like to hear Greg's opinion on all this though. And I'm sure he could come up with some important questions of his own to ask or modifications to the ones Supermorff has listed.

And, finally, thank you so much Gore for creating and maintaining and working to improve this site. I know all the regulars here appreciate your efforts greatly.
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"...nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure." - Ripley, "Aliens"
posted @ Fri, May 4, 2012 8:13:10 pm EDT from 99.92.109.252

I laughed at Greg's answer to question #2:

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/latest.php?qid=14794
Todd Jensen
I'm a Hufflepuff!
posted @ Fri, May 4, 2012 7:46:15 pm EDT from 4.244.211.101

Supermorff:
Alright, I'm starting to come around to the idea. I still want to think on it more, but it's probably the best solution that I could implement quickly.
Gorebash
posted @ Fri, May 4, 2012 6:28:10 pm EDT from 70.22.245.139

Gore> It's not supposed to be a test. The questions aren't supposed to be difficult. By forcing people to read the questions you are at the same time forcing them to process the guidelines and evaluate their questions against them. You can, in a sense, convert all of the guidelines into questions.

As for hiding the checkboxes, it's not the burden or how long it would take, it's how annoying people would find it. Answering 20 questions or so would take longer, but it would be less irritating than going through a wall of text and clicking on hidden boxes, and it would probably be more effective at forcing people to engage with guidelines instead of skimming.

An example list of questions, based on the guidelines, and some of the responses an incorrect response might throw up:

1. Do you think any of your questions might cause a spoiler alert? (Yes: Any question that might cause a spoiler alert is almost certainly asking for a spoiler and will not be answered. Remove any such questions before continuing.)

2. Are any of your questions asking about things that might happen in the future of a show? (Yes: Then you are asking for spoilers and those questions will not be answered. Remove them before continuing.)

3. Have you searched the archives? (No: Your question may already have been answered. You can search or browse the archives to find out. Any question already answered will not be answered again.)

4. Have you searched the questions in the queue in front of you?

5. Has your question already been asked?

6. Have you checked a relevant fan site, such as GargWiki or Young Justice Wiki?

7. Have you Have you considered posting your question in the Ask Greg comment room? (No: The fans in the Ask Greg comment room are very knowledgeable and may be able to answer your question much sooner than Greg will. They may also be able to provide advice on the sort of questions that are appropriate.)

8. Is it possible that your question might be answered in the next few episodes of a current series? (Yes: Be patient. The next few episodes of the series will almost certainly air before your question is answered.)

9. Have you numbered your questions?

10. Do you have more than five questions in your post?

11. Does your post contain any original ideas?

12. Does your link contain any stories that you have written, or links to stories or artwork of original characters?

13. Are you asking Greg for a job?

14. Are all your questions about the same topic?

15. Is the language of your post appropriate for publication on a PG website?

There, that's pretty much all the guidelines condensed into 15 yes/no questions. Wording can probably be improved. Randomise the order that the questions appear in, and people will have to read them every time. They're easy to answer, but they hammer home that it is the asker's responsibility to follow the guidelines and highlight places where a post could be improved.
Supermorff
posted @ Fri, May 4, 2012 4:59:16 pm EDT from 86.182.30.176

Supermorff & Masterdramon:
Interesting idea. I'm hesitant on that exact idea because I think those questions would be easy to answer without even glancing up at the guidelines. Perhaps a bank of questions could be created that lift more specific concepts from the guidelines that aren't so easy guess. I then include a random 3-5 questions that have to be answered correctly.

Supermorff:
I don't think checking boxes that have been buried within the guidelines presents a significant enough burden to anyone. An extra 30 seconds of work to ask a question of Greg is something I'm comfortable with.
Gorebash
posted @ Fri, May 4, 2012 4:05:41 pm EDT from 207.206.236.245

Supermorff: Now that I fully get what you're suggesting, I really like the idea. At minimum, it's the only suggestion so far that at least forces people to skim the guidelines.

Gore, any idea how feasible something like this might be?
Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
Back, queue! Back I say!
posted @ Fri, May 4, 2012 2:38:25 pm EDT from 143.231.249.141

Gore> I think I understand. You were planning to use checkboxes as a way of saying "Have you read this guideline?" So it would either be checked or unchecked? I don't like the idea of hiding a checkbox in a random place within the guidelines, partly because that'll be frustrating for people who already know the guidelines, and partly also because it will make the guidelines harder to read.

I was thinking (and I'm not saying this is better, just different) that you have the full list of guidelines at the top as they are now, and below that (maybe between the 'Question:' field and captcha code) is a list of yes/no questions that have to be answered, basically for them to assert that they have checked other sources and that the question is in the right format.

As Masterdramon said, if 'Yes' is the correct answer to every question, then people will just tick all of the boxes in a column without reading them. But if some of the answers should be 'Yes' (e.g. to 'Have you checked the archives/wikis/faq?', 'Have you checked the unanswered questions queue?') and some should be 'No' (e.g. to 'Has this question previously been asked?'), then they'll actually have to read and think about the question to get it right. This would be even better if the order of the questions was randomised, so they couldn't just learn the pattern.
Supermorff
posted @ Fri, May 4, 2012 1:55:20 pm EDT from 86.182.30.176

Hi, Greg!
I hope to continue for a long time even in the series, this persistence I wish for you!
It is love; since Megan broke Conner! The first season episode 21 was when Superboy Black Canary kissed (I later discovered that Megan was the Canary disguise) I do not know who that is with me it is cruel in nature, I suggest you to take on this Conner and Dinah the line really loved each other because this is the sexiest and hottest pairs of SG which existed in the history of animated movies and series! me, you became my favorite animated productions! Welcome to you and Brandon Vietti,you are the best animated Producers!
Anonnim - [schmidt.balazs@freemail.hu]
posted @ Fri, May 4, 2012 1:24:38 pm EDT from 78.92.56.171

Rebel:
I don't see needing to register as something that would prevent the drive-by questions. People can still get in by creating a dummy account or going to some place like bugmenot.com and using someone else's account.

The one account per IP doesn't work because there are people who share a single IP via proxies, NAT, or things like TOR. ISPs share pools of IPs with their customers. The IP I have from my home computer today will not be the same IP I will have next week. It means people can get around the one account per-IP and others will be blocked because someone else already created an account under the IP they now have. And what happens when you try to log in from a device other than your own computer?

Which is why I focus on approaches that create hoops to jump through that require as much or more effort than registering an account without relying on information that isn't coming directly from the user (IP comes from the ISP, MAC addresses come from the device, user agents and cookies come from the browser, etc. I want to avoid those as much as possible.)

I'd also like the "hoop" to have some substance to it and not just busywork to dissuade people from asking questions. E.g. forcing people to read the guidelines before asking a question.
Gorebash
posted @ Fri, May 4, 2012 1:10:37 pm EDT from 207.206.236.245

Laura:
The password system, in my mind, would be a password that you add to the question when its created. If you want to pass your question along you'll need to enter the password for your question again. Password might not be the right word to use because there's a connection between the concept of a password and an account, but this would be an account-less system. Maybe a "question key"?

But I can see where people might try to leave it blank or put in some simple value that anyone could guess like "gargoyles" and someone else guessing the "question key" and junking the question with the "yes my question is answered" button.

Which is why I said I think I can poke holes in the idea. I need to work on those details.
Gorebash
posted @ Fri, May 4, 2012 1:01:22 pm EDT from 207.206.236.245

There would probably be fewer "drive-by" questions if you had to register to use the site, and if only one account per IP was allowed. That's not something I would *like* to see happen, but it would make people at least somewhat accountable for what they are asking. They couldn't just post an obnoxious or inane question under the "anonymous" name, they'd have to actually put their name (even if it is fake) on it, so maybe they'd be less likely to act like jerks or ask pointless things in case they knew they might want to use Ask Greg again later.
Rebel
posted @ Fri, May 4, 2012 12:58:09 pm EDT from 69.134.102.225

Supermorff: I was originally thinking that I would have guidelines picked at random and the person would be told they need to check off ONLY those five guidelines to submit their question. The idea being that by being random and not requiring everything be checked it would force people asking questions to go through the list of guidelines.

But perhaps something that has them touching every guideline might be more effective. Maybe the checkboxes are pre-checked at random so you have to touch each checkbox to make sure it's set correctly.

However the checkboxes would be right next to the guideline numbers and that means people would probably focus on just the number and not the content of the guideline itself.

So maybe bury the checkbox between two words (location chosen at random each time you load the ask a question page) within each guideline? The problem there is people can just tab through to find the checkboxes without reading the guidelines. I could try and play dirty by creating some 100 or so hidden HTML elements and set a tabindex property on them so tabbing-through becomes more of a pain, but this leads to a kind of feedback loop; they figure out a way around, I try to make it harder, they find another way around, etc. and I'd like to avoid that.

I need to think this some more. Something will be added to the ask a question page to "engage" (i.e. add hoops to jump through) people and prevent those drive-by questions.
Gorebash
posted @ Fri, May 4, 2012 12:55:18 pm EDT from 207.206.236.245

I apoligize if this was answered in previous weeks, I only read through the current page in this room. (More than that would be crazy rude use of work time.) I catching up on Ask Greg and I'm just at the 5/10 question limit. Looking on the que it seems all my waiting ones are ok, but going fwd...

When I respond to an episode or issue I tend to number comments and questions together- ie there might be numbers 1-12, but 3-4, 6-9 and 12 may be comments, not questions. If I continue in that pattern to I risk getting comments booted for length? I can leave comments in ramble form, to avoid the problem, it just seems clearer to read the other way.

Speaking of which- is the final limit 5 or 10? (Not that I'll get caught up enough to post any time soon.)

About some of the comments below- closing the que to block out impulse posters would have the unintended effect of blocking out folks whose work and home schedules pretty much leave the internet for weekends.

A thought about the checklist- maybe one of the questions could be: would this question be better suited to the comment room- and them have a button to generate a new window to cut and past it to here?

As far as post it and forget it- maybe a two stage section for waiting to be answered- in the first stage people can post comments. If the comments saticfy the asker they can remove the question. If they do not it can continue on- but they have come back and click that they aren't saticfied for it to progress to the next stage. Problem is I don't know how that would work without a password system.
Laura 'ad astra' Sack
posted @ Fri, May 4, 2012 12:50:36 pm EDT from 192.251.134.5

Nothing much meaningful to add at this time, but I wanted to mention that I STRONGLY agree with Gore that the "set it and forget it" posters at Ask Greg are likely a huge part of the problem. Greg's pleas throughout the questions for common sense and following the rules only really reach us, the ones that watch the queues (ingoing, outgoing and archives) closely. And those of us who stick around a bit are the ones least likely to want/need to post a question unless it is original and within the guidelines set forth.

I really don't know the solution, but if we find a way to eliminate (or at least limit) these "drive-by questions", I believe we'll be in a lot better shape.
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"...nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure." - Ripley, "Aliens"
posted @ Fri, May 4, 2012 10:45:33 am EDT from 99.92.109.252

The answer to question 3 made me laugh.

http://s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=14774
Anthony Tini
posted @ Fri, May 4, 2012 10:30:58 am EDT from 159.240.11.109

Masterdramon> That's why I suggested questions for which some of the answers should be 'Yes' and others should be 'No'. That way, people can't just tick a line automatically, they have to actually engage their brains.
Supermorff
posted @ Fri, May 4, 2012 9:20:17 am EDT from 62.25.109.195

Supermorff: The checkbox idea has been in the works for a while, actually. Gore just needs to find the time to write the code.

I'm sure some people will simply check down the line without reading what's directly in front of them...but others might not. And the mild inconvenience should be sufficient to dissuade the absolute laziest of askers.
Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
Don't you die on me, Station 8! DON'T YOU DIE ON ME!!!
posted @ Fri, May 4, 2012 7:31:49 am EDT from 68.32.165.95

*over 100 times as high, not other
Supermorff
posted @ Fri, May 4, 2012 3:19:15 am EDT from 86.182.30.176

Gore et al.> The only thing I can think of right now is maybe turning the Guidelines into a simple sort of checklist. In addition to the 'Name', 'Question' and captcha code boxes, maybe have some tickbox questions like 'Have you checked the unanswered questions list?', 'Have you checked the archives?', 'Has this question previously been asked?', 'Have you numbered your questions?', 'Do you have more than 5 questions?', 'Is this a spoiler request?', 'Does the post contain any original ideas?', etc. Then have the checklist automatically bounce back any questions if the checklist isn't filled in properly, or in some cases (like 'Have you numbered your questions?'), just tell the user how to fix it. If nothing else, this means people no longer have any excuse for not reading the guidelines.

I also think (as I mentioned earlier in the week), that it would be good to add a line like 'There are X questions in the queue in front of you.' to the Ask a Question page, probably in guideline #5, perhaps along with a statement like 'If this number is higher than 10/20/30/whatever, then the next episode of Young Justice will air before your question is answered.' That should put the wind up people when they see that the number is not just higher, but other 100 times as high!
Supermorff
posted @ Fri, May 4, 2012 3:17:51 am EDT from 86.182.30.176

Jose:
We had a Gargoyles IRC channel back in 1995. Over the years its popularity dwindled. If you want to start a new one I'd be glad to promote it here on the site, maybe even create a page with an embedded IRC client to take some of the work out of fans connecting to the chat room.

Harlan:
What do you think needs fixing and how would you fix it? I do genuinely want to hear your opinion on that either in here or via e-mail.

The kind of access fans have to Greg is something I think is absolutely unique and special and something you won't find anyone anywhere else doing it. Most channels fans have to communicate with writers and directors are through either in-person events, which are typically small and moderated, or through wildly inconsistent, usually unmoderated, public means such as a forum or Twitter or Facebook; channels that have no queue. However a fan who comes here and does their due-diligence will have their question answered. That kind of guarantee doesn't exist anywhere else. I think the reason it doesn't exist anywhere else is because it's way too easy to get bogged down in a massive queue of questions. I think that can lead to frustration on both ends of the channel and to feelings of dissatisfaction. I can't see anyone but the most stubborn and patient of people willing to keep such a channel open for any significant length of time.

Many times I've wondered when Ask Greg would, if not stop taking new questions permanently, stop taking questions for more than a few days with breaks of weeks, if not months, between. I've also spent quite a lot of time trying to think up of ways to maintain the amount of bandwidth Ask Greg currently provides, but get things running more smoothly. Moderators that can answer on Greg's behalf is one tool that I think we could better utilize. What I'd really like to see is the community at large become the first gate through which questions go through. I think a crowd-sourced approach could do a lot to help. I also like the idea that as popularity increases (along with incoming questions) so does the community supporting the answering.

The big question is how do you do that?

IRC? A forum? Maybe. The problem is it usually takes more effort to engage in those (and similar) channels of communication with the community than it does to simply type in a question and hit the submit button.

I think many questioners adopt a kind of "set it and forget it" mentality where they just submit a question and "forget it". Maybe they check back once a week to see if it's still in the queue. If Greg answers it, cool, if not, oh well. Because of this I think we see a flood of questions coming into Ask Greg that the questioner could have answered for themselves in minutes if they just put a little effort into engaging with the community through either the CR or the wikis or the Ask Greg archives.

This is one reason why the comment room is like it is today. No registration. No software to install. It's incredibly "set it and forget it" mentality-friendly. (That's also why I think it's endured as long as it has when faced with more modern alternative. It was ready for today's internet mentality back when you still capitalized the word internet.) Even so people aren't coming here first, but going right to Ask Greg and hitting that submit button. Set it and forget it.

So how do we get people to go through the community first? (I really would love to hear any suggestions on this one.)

I think the only way is to force it to happen.

How?

This particular idea is something I'm just now coming up with and haven't even talked to anyone so this should in no way be treated as "omg! this is what's going to happen! no!"

Maybe add a new front-end to Ask Greg where questions are at first opened to the community at large to answer. If, after some period of time, the questioner feels their question has not yet been sufficiently answered they can push it along to the next stage. Maybe require questioners to include an explanation as to why they feel the question has not been sufficiently answered before it's moved forward. This will break the "set it and forget it" mentality because if you don't maintain your question it won't move forward. It requires some extra effort on the part of the questioner before they get through to the moderators and, eventually, to Greg.

Maybe questions that have been waiting for very long periods of time are considered abandoned and either deleted or put into a separate queue where the moderators can determine whether or not the question has been answered and take appropriate action.

I think I can poke holes in this idea as it is, but maybe it's the start of something.

The point is the solution is not easy. I haven't come up with one in 15 years and for at least 10 of those I've been open to suggestions and I still am. If you've got an idea please share it.

Keep in mind any solution essentially needs to leave ultimate control over the fate of the question going to (the moderators and maybe onto) Greg in the hands of the person asking the question. The community at large should not have a say in whether a question gets deleted or not.
Gorebash - [gorebash@s8.org]
posted @ Fri, May 4, 2012 2:24:55 am EDT from 70.22.245.139

Anthony Tini> "In a word, the time jump was BOLD."

In another word, might it also be BRAVE?

...sorry.
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!
posted @ Thu, May 3, 2012 1:36:11 pm EDT from 137.183.232.22

In a word, the time jump was BOLD. I'm REALLY looking forward to the rest of the season.

Since I DVR the show, I've been watching each episode twice, and once the initial shock of the time jump wore off, I really enjoyed "Happy New Year".

To those people asking the shallow YJ questions in the queue, I recommend recording the episode and watching it twice (if not more). You'll be amazed on how much you pick up that you might have missed the first time.
Anthony Tini
posted @ Thu, May 3, 2012 11:33:57 am EDT from 159.240.11.109

I did wonder (before I realized that that question I mentioned last night was most likely parody) whether the person who posted it had read too many mangas; they often give the blood type, birthdays, etc. for the major characters.
Todd Jensen
I'm a Hufflepuff!
posted @ Thu, May 3, 2012 7:32:40 am EDT from 4.244.208.216

J29> I can't say I was thrilled with the time skip, but I also can't say I disliked it. While, yes, I would've liked to see the immediate fallout from the events of Auld Aquaintence, and as a guy not-so-familiar with the mainstream DCU there was a bit of an "OMG-so-many-new-characters-flying-at-me-who-I-know-hardly-anything-about-AAAAGH" factor, I did enjoy the episode. [SPOILER] (And I am at least more familiar with Beast Boy and Blue Beetle, so their presence was a definite plus. And Wonder Girl was pretty badass.)

I find it a little silly that some fans are expressing concern that Wally, Kaldur and Artemis will never show up or be mentioned again just because they didn't appear in the first episode. [/SPOILER] Even if I wasn't familiar enough with Greg's work to know that this isn't even an option, there's no evidence whatsoever that such a thing would happen - and with the ending obviously leading directly into the next episode, I would think people could exercise a little bit of patience before jumping to extreme conclusions.

(Not sure if those bits really need the spoiler tags, but just to be safe.)
Ross
Hufflepuff pride, yo.
posted @ Thu, May 3, 2012 12:57:18 am EDT from 184.9.223.229

Well, on the plus side, at least maybe some Young Justice fans desperately looking for information on one of their favorite shows ended up finding themselves exposed to gargoyles and started watching it for the first time in years or first time just at all period. Or at least that's something I suppose.

By the way, I don't think I got a response to this last time I asked, was it ever considered an idea to put an IRC channel on this site? I'm just curious.
Jose Bremen
posted @ Wed, May 2, 2012 9:02:15 pm EDT from 75.81.245.165

It'll be sad day when we all give in and start tolerating rude, impatient behavior as acceptable and even EXPECTED on the internet. I really don't believe that's yet the case among all age groups, and the young people who expect instant gratification are going to learn eventually that's not how the entire world works.
Patrick
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Wed, May 2, 2012 8:50:06 pm EDT from 76.190.228.74

Harlan - You have a ton of valid points, all things I've already considered. I guess the thing I balk at is people telling me it's time to shut down the site. Not that I don't feel that way - with increasing frequency - but as long as I'm still willing to go for it... well... I don't see what's gained by other folks telling me it's time. What have they got to lose?
Greg Weisman
posted @ Wed, May 2, 2012 8:29:45 pm EDT from 168.161.192.16

Todd Jensen> You mean that last one? I couldn't decide between "parody" or "troll". xD But now that you mention it it's quite sure parody.
Comet
I'm shipping off...to find my wooden leg!
posted @ Wed, May 2, 2012 7:28:01 pm EDT from 80.187.103.5

Whoops, that last one was me.
Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
Back, queue! Back I say!
posted @ Wed, May 2, 2012 7:03:36 pm EDT from 68.32.165.95

Todd: I'm sure it was, but given Greg's answer to "Is Spider-Man the mole?" a few weeks back, I figured he wouldn't be in the mood.

Besides, I think the answers fit quite well. ;)
Anonymous
Back, queue! Back I say!
posted @ Wed, May 2, 2012 7:02:48 pm EDT from 68.32.165.95

Anybody get a feeling that the question linked to below was intended as a parody of the kinds of questions Greg gets too often about "Young Justice"?

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/latest.php
Todd Jensen
I'm a Hufflepuff!
posted @ Wed, May 2, 2012 6:57:22 pm EDT from 4.244.214.228

HARLAN> You have a lot of valid points and I don't necessarilly disagree with you. But at the same time, I do wonder if it's not a tad presumptative of us to be debating among ourselves how Greg should run his own little corner of the web?

Granted, I'm as guilty of that as anyone and I know we all mean well, but perhaps, we're also guilty of a certain level of entitlement?
Algernon
posted @ Wed, May 2, 2012 6:48:49 pm EDT from 109.125.7.42

Weisman> Absolutely.

However, I think it would be dishonest of me to not express how I feel about the situation. And that extremity is how I feel. I'd be more than happy to be proven wrong, and I'm also fine with you disagreeing with me (assuming you do, which I suspect is the case).

Our views are able to coexist, especially during a process that consists of thoughts being tossed back and forth. While I do appreciate the level of care that is required to reply at all, I don't especially appreciate you simply retorting me with no real logic or response beyond your level of authority. At the same time, you're a grown man with a busy job and a family life, so I'm not particularly upset about it.

I've communicated with Garg fandom fairly little, on and off, but I've browsed Ask Greg for a solid chunk of my life (I'm 21 now, and I've done it since I was about...12-ish?). It's not an outlook that particularly fills me with joy, but it wouldn't ruin my life. It'd be unfortunate, though, and I'd definitely miss it. But I ALREADY miss it, because as far as I see it, what Ask Greg resembled for most of my viewing life isn't exactly here anymore anyway.

But as things stand, I don't feel like Ask Greg is a suitable forum for THIS particular breed of internet culture. One I don't see dying down any time soon. It's an age of instantaneous communication and, as you once noted, morals and etiquette developed from this format and world. Ask Greg is all accepting, but ultimately small and intimate. That's not really what the internet's like, anymore. And I do genuinely question if Ask Greg can evolve to handle that considering the little it's actually CHANGED in a digital era where change is commonplace (which isn't an insult to Gorebash or anyone who's ever worked on the site, mind, just a statement of fact).

I mean, this isn't really a fan culture that resembles where you started with when Ask Greg began. This is the fanbase raised on conventions of fanfiction and relation "shipping" and the impulsive emotion that comes with those thought processes, who're honestly ignorant of everything ranging from animation production to separating you as a person from you as a creator. In forums and social networks where their communication/ignorance/entitlement can be spread with little effort and then filtered into a queue that, by virtue of bulk, is cursed to a snail's pace. You're not even dealing with the fan response as much as you're dealing with the remnants of impolite, entitled corpses of distant stars. You're just pushing aside echoes so even more than flood in, and etc.

Again, I'd love to be proven wrong. But I think Ask Greg is, though a cherished site I've visited for years, a tad archaic as a system. Would fixing things now REALLY change things, or simply address immediate surface problems that'll occur in different ways later? Is adjusting things for the site to accommodate the influx of Young Justice's fan culture really future proofing the site, or is it just a temporary solution?

(Though personally, in regards to one option, I'm pretty supportive of you being as draconian as necessary.)

That all said, you are obviously entitled to do what you see, as you see fit. I only ask that I be read and considered. Because you don't need to agree with me to listen to what I have to say.
Harlan Phoenix
posted @ Wed, May 2, 2012 6:17:32 pm EDT from 76.2.69.249

Harlan> Would you like some Aloe Vera for that burn?
Chip
I knew. Hey, I'm a Detective. But it never mattered. You aren't your family. You're one of us~~Robin
posted @ Wed, May 2, 2012 5:52:46 pm EDT from 68.184.240.231

Harlan wrote: "The time of Ask Greg's heyday, at least for the time being, is pretty much over. Internet fandom isn't what it used to be, and I'm not sure this site could adequately evolve for it."

Isn't that for me to decide?
Greg Weisman
posted @ Wed, May 2, 2012 5:46:10 pm EDT from 168.161.192.16

Masterdramon>"saying in the case of the latter that 'we're not there yet.'"

I respectfully disagree.

Regardless of someone's rights to ask, or the validity of someone's questions, the exact TYPE of fanbase Young Justice essentially ensures both a queue forever flooded and one with a constant deluge of completely substanceless questions.

Not even saying my own questions are always amazing (I've flubbed more than a few times), but there's a difference between someone flubbing up a question or asking a stinker and getting a torrent flooded by a combination of minutia obsessed fanboys and shipping obsessed Tumblr girls.

The time of Ask Greg's heyday, at least for the time being, is pretty much over. Internet fandom isn't what it used to be, and I'm not sure this site could adequately evolve for it.
Harlan Phoenix
posted @ Wed, May 2, 2012 4:45:21 pm EDT from 76.2.69.249

Sorry for the spam, everybody. just testing the new siggy.
Algernon
Hᴜᴍᴀɴs ɴᴇᴇᴅ Ò"ᴀɴᴛᴀsʏ ᴛᴏ *ʙᴇ* ʜᴜᴍᴀɴ. Tᴏ ʙᴇ ᴛʜᴇ ᴘʟᴀᴄᴇ ᴡʜᴇʀᴇ ᴛʜᴇ Ò"ᴀʟʟɪɴɢ ᴀɴɢᴇʟ ᴍᴇᴇᴛs ᴛʜᴇ ʀɪsɪɴɢ ᴀᴘᴇ.
posted @ Wed, May 2, 2012 1:58:10 pm EDT from 109.125.36.86

Thanks for the response Masterdramon. :) I figured Greg and all you lovely Admins had been considering lots of options as you re-vamped the rules, but had no way to know what specific ideas had already been floated around.

So for everyone keeping up with Young Justice I have to ask: How are you feeling about the time-skip?

I'm kind of torn myself. On the one hand I kind of wanted to see the immediate aftermath of everything from Season 1 unfold in real-time, but the time-skip also allows for lots of new characters and situations to be introduced, and I have enough faith in Greg and co. that eventually all the big questions of what happened in the interum will be answered.
J29
"Love makes you do the wacky."
posted @ Wed, May 2, 2012 1:32:12 pm EDT from 184.12.112.45

FYI, Greg has been proposed several reform suggestions in private correspondence, including many of the below. Specifically, he has rejected the idea of an up-down voting system and limiting question-asking access to once a week, saying in the case of the latter that "we're not there yet."

Updated guidelines have been drafted and are in the process of being implemented. But Greg's trying very hard to avoid being draconian about this.

Ultimately, Greg - as well as Todd, Gore, and myself - all want Station 8 to be a welcome place for fans of all of Greg's shows. So by all means, keep reform suggestions coming...but don't assume he hasn't heard them before.
Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
I'm at least mildly convinced that the Station 8 queue is sentient and is trying to kill me. Hooray?
posted @ Wed, May 2, 2012 12:55:06 pm EDT from 143.231.249.141

I actually really like J29's idea of having the queue open only from the Monday to the Tuesday (I'd rather it be open until Thursday or so, but whatever) following the airing of a new Young Justice, because as he/she mentioned, it would stop that deluge of impulse questions.
Rebel
posted @ Wed, May 2, 2012 12:20:56 pm EDT from 69.134.102.225

I kinda had the impression Greg was getting tired of answering questions anyway. Perhaps he should just stop then if he really wants to, even though I'd rather he stay. It's not like we are entitled to him answering our questions or anything I suppose.
Wiltmensi
posted @ Wed, May 2, 2012 11:20:00 am EDT from 75.81.245.165

After reading many of the "Young Justice" questions in the queue, I'll say this: if I was Greg Weisman, I'd be tempted to only work on "invented from scratch" projects after this, rather than ones based on pre-existing materials like DC Comics. That way, I wouldn't be deluged with questions by people unhappy with the alterations from the source.
Todd Jensen
I'm a Hufflepuff!
posted @ Wed, May 2, 2012 7:25:14 am EDT from 4.244.210.134

Sorry, Matt. For the record, these Richard questions aren't me either.

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=15162
http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=15735
Richard Jackson
posted @ Wed, May 2, 2012 2:32:40 am EDT from 1.251.19.150

RandomStan> I never said anything about implementing the voting system or agreeing with it.
Antiyonder
posted @ Tue, May 1, 2012 10:54:59 pm EDT from 50.35.222.147

Just to be clear... that wasn't me. It was some other Matt.
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"...nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure." - Ripley, "Aliens"
posted @ Tue, May 1, 2012 10:34:01 pm EDT from 99.92.109.252

Todd Jenson>"but it would punish the innocent along with the guilty."

Which is fair point, but given this level of creator/fan interaction is a luxury to begin with, the innocent aren't obligated to be tended to.
Harlan Phoenix
posted @ Tue, May 1, 2012 10:33:58 pm EDT from 76.2.69.249

Antiyonder and Anon > The problem with this suggestion is that people of various fandoms would vote in favor of their fandom and against the other to encourage their fandoms questions to the top.

Me personally? I'm here for Gargoyles and nothing else. So yes, I would be tempted to down vote any question that wasn't Gargoyles-related and up vote the Garg questions because those are what I want to see answered.

Hence the problem of the voting technique.
RandomStan
posted @ Tue, May 1, 2012 10:22:54 pm EDT from 98.117.206.48

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=14747

Matt> Just as an interesting fact, when I watched "Targets" and "Auld Aquaintance", Taipei was referred to as Thailand in the Korean subtitles. They didn't alter the timestamps that clearly say "Taipei" or the news crawl below Cat Grant that says "Taipei, Taiwan".

Although South Korea is closely allied with the US, they also have close diplomatic and trade relations with the PRC.
Richard Jackson
posted @ Tue, May 1, 2012 9:48:05 pm EDT from 1.251.19.150

No idea what happened with my last post. After I previewed my comment it decided it wanted to add weird symbols. Let's try that again.

I'm a newcomer to posting in the CR, but I have had a few thoughts about what might help with the backlog and the quality of questions.

1) Deleting posts that solely consist of questions that have already been asked in the queue and/or recently answered (say within a month) rather than marking them "Asked and Answered." That makes it so there's no advantage in not reading the rules.

2) While new Young Justice eps are airing only have the question function open from The Monday after a new ep airs until the Tuesday. (From 12:00 AM EST Monday to 11:59 EST Tuesday say) So there'd be less 'impulse-asking' immediately after the episode, and fewer additions to the queue overall.

3) Add a new rule RE rudeness. That any disrespectful language will result in a question being deleted. Saying that you felt the time skip was a bad story decision, fine. Calling it a 'dick move'-delete. I really have zero sympathy for that level of rudeness, especially when Greg's level of open-access to fans is so far beyond anything that could reasonably be expected of him.

I don't know if any of you are How I Met Your Mother fans, but it puts me in mind of an exchange from the season one finale:

"Who does that?"
"Nobody."
"I know!"
"No, honey. *Nobody* does that."

I realize that any decisions are the sole purview of Greg and the Admins, but thought I'd give my two cents as a fan.
J29
"Love makes you do the wacky."
posted @ Tue, May 1, 2012 8:06:03 pm EDT from 184.12.112.45

I'm a newcomer to posting in the CR, but I have had a few thoughts about what might help with the backlog and the quality of questions.

1) Deleting posts that solely consist of questions that have already been asked in the queue and/or recently answered (say within a month) rather than marking them "Asked and Answered."

2) While new Young Justice eps are airing only have the question function open from The Monday after a new ep airs until the Tuesday. (From 12:00 AM EST Monday to 11:59 EST Tuesday say) So there'd be less 'impulse-asking' immediately after the episode airs on Saturday or Sunday, and fewer additions to the queue overall.

3) Add a new rule RE rudeness. That any disrespectful language will result in a question being deleted. Saying that you felt the time skip was a bad story decision, fine. Calling it a �dick move�-delete. I really have zero sympathy for that level of rudeness, especially when Greg�s level of open-access to fans is so far beyond anything that could reasonably be expected of him.

I don�t know if any of you are How I Met Your Mother fans, but it puts me in mind of an exchange from the season one finale:

�Who does that?�
�Nobody.�
�I know!�
�No, honey. *Nobody* does that.�

I realize that any decisions are the sole purview of Greg and the Admins, but thought I'd give my two cents as a fan.
J29
"Love makes you do the wacky."
posted @ Tue, May 1, 2012 8:03:51 pm EDT from 184.12.112.45

Harlan Phoenix's suggestion is tempting (I've sometimes felt like proposing the same thing, with "if people want to ask Greg questions, they'll have to go to conventions where he's appearing"), but it would punish the innocent along with the guilty.

Maybe forbid all "in-universe" "Young Justice" questions until the series ends? Thgse seem to be both the most numerous and the worst offenders.
Todd Jensen
I'm a Hufflepuff!
posted @ Tue, May 1, 2012 7:04:40 pm EDT from 4.244.208.91

Greg Bishansky>

Neither, I would like to vote up interesting questions and vote down trivial questions, spoilers,or pointless comments. And even though I am a young justice fan, the majority of if not all of the latter are young justice related and I would like to see those voted down.

But, now that you bring that up, i do see how that can be a problem.
Anonymous
Anonymous
posted @ Tue, May 1, 2012 4:28:39 pm EDT from 72.12.198.109

I say shut the whole thing down.
Harlan Phoenix
posted @ Tue, May 1, 2012 4:17:44 pm EDT from 76.2.69.249

Algernon: Greg has always possessed that ability, assuming his Admin screen matches mine. That he doesn't do so is because he chooses not to.

Keeping strictly to chronology may not always be optimal, but at least it's fair and unbiased.
Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
I'm at least mildly convinced that the Station 8 queue is sentient and is trying to kill me. Hooray?
posted @ Tue, May 1, 2012 3:58:30 pm EDT from 143.231.249.141

Greg B> I wouldn't be surprised if Anonymous' suggestion could lead to abuse, but that's twice I've seen you making that comment.

Do YJ fans (the one's not as familiar with Weisman's work that is) really have a problem with the Garg fanbase?
Antiyonder
posted @ Tue, May 1, 2012 3:44:16 pm EDT from 50.106.9.184

ANONYMOUS> Do you want Gargoyles fans voting down YJ questions. Or do you want YJ fans voting down Gargoyles questions?
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
"Brave words for a man who hides his face behind a hood." - Goliath, "The Journey."
posted @ Tue, May 1, 2012 3:38:11 pm EDT from 24.185.74.60

Last week greg roughly answered 20 questions, but 200 more came up and the questions are already 2 months old. Is there anyway the site can put a ranking system on questions where fans can vote up or down a question on how much the majority would like a question answered.
Anonymous
posted @ Tue, May 1, 2012 3:15:18 pm EDT from 72.12.198.109

MASTERDRAMON> You know, I wonder it might not be prudent to let Greg pick and choose which questions he responds to? Just let him skip or discard any questions he doesn't feel like answering for whatever reason, even if they do technically conform to the rules. It might give the trolls pause for thought.
Algernon
Those patient Hufflepuffs are true and unafraid of toil
posted @ Tue, May 1, 2012 2:58:18 pm EDT from 109.125.46.183

Brainiac: They suffer much the same issues, honestly. Unecessary rudeness (though I haven't processed any death threats in the queue...yet), constantly repeated questions, entitlement issues, general inanity, etc...

At least the ignoramuses have something of an excuse when it comes to Congress, though - Congressmembers do have an obligation to keep their "queues" open, screened as they are, because that's how an open republican government is expected to conduct itself.

Greg is under no such obligation, and a good number of people quite frankly need that fact drilled into their skulls. I mean, calling the time skip a "dick move"? Really? REALLY?!

You don't have to like it, but dammit people, learn some bloody manners!
Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
Don't you die on me, Station 8! DON'T YOU DIE ON ME!!!
posted @ Tue, May 1, 2012 10:10:30 am EDT from 173.73.131.33

Masterdramon> I'm almost too afraid to ask this question, but...which is more destructive to your faith in humanity, work on the Hill or in the queue?
Brainiac - [OSUBrianiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!
posted @ Tue, May 1, 2012 8:52:37 am EDT from 137.183.232.22

Good God...nearly 200 questions approved...past midnight here...gotta sleep at office...

Seriously, if I see one more question regarding whether Kaldur, Artemis, or Wally will be in Season 2...

Urgh... XP
Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
Don't you die on me, Station 8! DON'T YOU DIE ON ME!!!
posted @ Tue, May 1, 2012 12:23:30 am EDT from 173.73.131.33

Richard Jackson > As in:
"Flash can vibrate his molecules through a wall. When he [Kid Flash] tries it, God only knows." ?

That's still sorta funny I guess.
Rebel
posted @ Mon, Apr 30, 2012 9:37:21 pm EDT from 69.134.102.225

A funny anecdote from "Welcome to Happy Harbor" was ruined in the Korean subtitles. Robin talked about Kid Flash trying to vibrate his molecules through a wall and said KF ended up with a bloody nose. Whoever wrote the subtitles confused "nose" with "knows" and wrote "God only knows" in Korean instead of "bloody nose".

I also showed the scene where Captain Marvel's membership is being debated by the League to some teachers at my school wanting to learn English. They wrote down Captain Marvel's response to Aquaman, "Hey, I'm sitting right here!" and Wonder Woman's statement, "A lie of omission is still a lie."
Richard Jackson
posted @ Mon, Apr 30, 2012 6:53:49 pm EDT from 59.151.250.61

Supermoff > But even currents of wind and updrafts have to end at some point. If I learned anything from reading Animorphs as a kid, it's that flying or even gliding takes a lot of work, a lot of movement. Even now, when I watch birds fly in real life, it's rarely from Point A to Point B. They have to move up, down, and around to different currents. It's not a straight line flight like the gargoyles do all the time.

Also, how about the first few minutes of The Price when they fight Macbeth in the air? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ncKf1XNBPs There are times when the gargoyles just stop and hover in mid-air! They're not beating their wings to stay there or anything; they're literally just floating!

I know it might be silly to try and read real world physics into a race of cartoon mythical creatures but that doesn't stop me from wondering about it when I watch it.
RandomStan
posted @ Mon, Apr 30, 2012 4:05:31 pm EDT from 98.117.206.48

They glide on the wind and have a lot of power in their wing musculature. Once they are in air they are quite agile. They just can't take off from the ground.
What bothers me more is that Gargoyles with wings like Lexington's seem to be able to glide as agile as these with wings like Goliath's. Normally these Gargoyles should be much more inflexible in air because it is really hard to steer with these wings.
(I hope you understand what I mean, I sometimes have trouble finding the right words)
Comet
I'm shipping off...to find my wooden leg!
posted @ Mon, Apr 30, 2012 3:45:46 pm EDT from 80.187.102.144

RandomStan> More or less, although they also established that they can use updrafts to gain altitude, which is probably more common while gliding over a bustling city than in a small living room.
Supermorff
posted @ Mon, Apr 30, 2012 3:21:28 pm EDT from 86.182.30.176

A Gargoyles question, if I may, something that bothered me during my marathon a few weeks ago.

First a tale: last night, I visited with my father and family for dinner. My father owns two birds, one of which is a huge blue and green macaw who has an open perch in the living room/kitchen/dinning room. During the evening, she decided she wasn't getting enough attention and took flight around the room.

The macaw, like our friends the gargoyles, can't fly. Her flight feathers are clipped and she never learned out to properly fly. All she can do, and all she did last night, was beat her wings and do a few loops around the room for about thirty seconds before she lost altitude and landed on the floor.

This incident reminded me of something that bothered me about the gargoyles. They can't fly. We know that fact and it does make sense to me. Their bodies are much to heavy to be supported by their wings unless they jump off an edge. Fair enough. But the whole gliding thing, I feel like that was stretched further than it should have been.

The gargoyles appear able to spend hours flying about without landing and needing to take off again. They land, not because they've completed their glide and must find a ledge to launch into a new glide, but because they've reached their destination. Doesn't gliding mean to start at a high point and float through the air descending until you've run out of air space and reached the ground, like my father's macaw or a flying squirrel?
RandomStan
posted @ Mon, Apr 30, 2012 2:17:35 pm EDT from 98.117.206.48

Comet> Yeah, since it looked like a normal starting ten, I just figured I'd throw in one of the few Illuminati we could use just for fun. Trust me, you're not the only one who'd very much enjoy having a full-blown Illuminati (or, if their ranks expand this season, The Light) opening for the CR.

Masterdramon> Heh-heh-heh.
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!
posted @ Mon, Apr 30, 2012 9:28:49 am EDT from 137.183.232.22

I was reading a bit more of the "Samurai unofficial manual" last evening, and it mentioned tengu in one chapter (about the legends and religious beliefs of feudal Japan). It described them as excellent swordsmen, which fits a few things we've seen of them (Yama's swords in "Bad Guys", Brooklyn's brought back a Japanese sword after his TimeDancing, and though it's difficult to tell, Katana apparently had a sword as well - and was certainly named after one).
Todd Jensen
I'm a Hufflepuff!
posted @ Mon, Apr 30, 2012 7:58:41 am EDT from 4.244.208.89

Illuminati ranks? Coolest idea ever xD I wanted to see such a countdown weeks ago, but didn't try it because there are a lot of numbers missing between 1 and 10 since we don't know enough members...
Comet
I'm shipping off...to find my wooden leg!
posted @ Mon, Apr 30, 2012 7:31:37 am EDT from 80.187.111.93

Tenth!

Greg > The song goes "*OH*, Shari..." :P
Patrick
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Mon, Apr 30, 2012 6:55:40 am EDT from 76.190.228.74

Um, Shari!
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
"Brave words for a man who hides his face behind a hood." - Goliath, "The Journey."
posted @ Mon, Apr 30, 2012 4:13:01 am EDT from 24.185.74.60

Oh I remember why I came here now. Regarding the huge question queue, is there a way of adding a line to the 'Ask A Question' page saying something like: "There are X questions in the queue ahead of you. If this number is higher than 10, the next episode of Young Justice will air before your question is answered." Just a thought.
Supermorff
posted @ Mon, Apr 30, 2012 3:03:47 am EDT from 86.182.30.176

Eighth in the name of temporarily forgetting how to spell "eighth" and having to look it up.
Supermorff
posted @ Mon, Apr 30, 2012 2:57:26 am EDT from 86.182.30.176

Lucky (7th)Seventh!!!!!!!
Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]
God Bless you All!
posted @ Mon, Apr 30, 2012 2:29:03 am EDT from 99.156.196.162

Sixth in the name of Pottermore finally letting me on!
Ross
Hufflepuff pride, yo.
posted @ Mon, Apr 30, 2012 1:50:48 am EDT from 184.9.223.229

Fifth, in the name of nothing in particular!
Spen
posted @ Mon, Apr 30, 2012 12:58:44 am EDT from 69.63.7.88

Fourth in the name of...wait. We don't know any fours in the Society!

CURSE YOU, BRAINIAC!!!
Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
Don't you die on me, Station 8! DON'T YOU DIE ON ME!!!
posted @ Mon, Apr 30, 2012 12:32:24 am EDT from 68.32.165.95

I claim this post in the name of Lady Blanchefleur!
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!
posted @ Mon, Apr 30, 2012 12:28:11 am EDT from 174.101.230.22

SECOND!

Tony: Har Har Har d:
Phoenician - [onephoenician at gmail dot com]
"The suspense is terrible . . . I hope it lasts," -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Mon, Apr 30, 2012 12:12:33 am EDT from 74.162.155.133

April 30, 2007 - I traveled five years to post 1st!
Anthony Tini
posted @ Mon, Apr 30, 2012 12:00:05 am EDT from 50.29.205.45