Comment Room Archive : Gargoyles : Station Eight

The BATB Enchantress: Well perhaps she/they did have an agenda to doing what she did. In City of Stone the Sisters were presented as sort of neutral omnipresent arbiters of fate and it was only later we realized they had plans of their own.

I could buy Maleficent as Oberati. The original story *does* identify the creator of the curse as a "bad fairy." Which means of course that Flora, Fauna, and Merryweather are Oberati too, just more benign.

Re Cassim's accent: It only stuck out to me since, with the exception of Jafar, who has his cultured psuedo-British thing going on, and a couple exaggerated Middle Eastern accents, everyone else sounds generically American. And with Macbeth basically being Batman I could see his 'Street Rat' descendents kicking corresponding amounts of butt. And it would be amusing that both Cassim and Al also ended up 'Kings' after having been knocked down, similar to dear old Gramps. Cassim even lost his title and went in self-imposed exile.

Going into Non-Gargoyles shared universe theories:

Aladdin and Hercules can be confirmed as being contemporaries in the same universe due to the episode of the latter's TV series "Hercules and the Arabian Knight" which I encourage you to watch because it's hysterical. Hades and Jafar playing off each other *alone* is worth the price of admission.

The Maleficent/Lady Tremaine connection is fun to speculate on and I'd buy it. Flora also shares a voice actress with Cindy's fairy godmother, so there could be some connection there.

Some Little Mermaid/Cinderella ones: Christopher Daniel Barnes, who voiced Eric, voiced Prince Charming in the two Cinderella sequels. (Two is one of the worst things Disney has every put out. Three is surprisingly entertaining.) The King and Grand Duke from Cinderella are also guests at the interrupted wedding of Eric/Vanessa (disguised Ursula) indicating either a blood relation or close alliance: http://www.fanpop.com/spots/disney-crossover/images/27362498/title/king-grand-duke-cinderella-little-mermaid-screencap
And in Cindy 3 Charming's mother is shown to have been a redhead: http://hq55.com/disney/cin3/cinderella3-disneyscreencaps.com-1941.jpg

And in a Mermaid/Sleeping Beauty example, a painting in Eric's dining room looks freakily like Phillip and Aurora: http://hq55.com/disney/tlm/littlemermaid-disneyscreencaps.com-5666.jpg So maybe he's a descendent of theirs?
J29
"Love makes you do the wacky."
posted @ Sun, Jun 24, 2012 4:25:04 pm EDT from 184.12.118.247

ARLO> Maybe in some form, I know evolution exists in the Gargoyles Universe either. But, well, if a version of the Eden story did happen, I don't think gargoyles ate the fruit. Would the Children of Mab have eaten it at the time too?
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
"Brave words for a man who hides his face behind a hood." - Goliath, "The Journey."
posted @ Sun, Jun 24, 2012 2:24:01 pm EDT from 24.185.74.60

@Arlo - It would be fun if Greg were to incorporate the Lilith myth, only Lilith was a gargoyle. I can't figure out either though how gargs could otherwise fit into the Eden myth, since they predate humans by, I'm guessing, quite some time. It also assumes that gargoyles, like humans, should be expected to carry some form of "Original Sin". (A side note - I always found it interesting that Eve, and later Adam, were punished for what essentially boils down to seeking knowledge).

I do think that the Nephilim, from Genesis 6, Numbers 13, and the Book of Enoch would be good candidates for biblical gargoyles.

Kind of following on to your question about labor pains (I'm guessing no on that, for the record, probably just pressure rather than actual pain, but that's just my opinion) do gargoyles lactate even if their are no hatchlings around? I realize that's a bizarre question but I wonder if it ever came up during one of the conventions. We know that gargoyles' reproduction are heavily tied to Earth's cycles, and in 2198, apparently all the eggs get abducted and put in stasis right before hatching - does that leave the female gargoyles still on Earth in an uncomfortable bind, or will their bodies hold off until the hatchlings are around? Does anyone have any idea? For that matter, do lesbian gargs, or ones that don't mate, produce milk too, or do they have to breed first?
FTBM2010
posted @ Sun, Jun 24, 2012 2:19:50 pm EDT from 74.115.160.171

I agree with Matt. I always find there's something new to question regarding the Gargoyles Universe, and I'm surprised other people don't think so.

For instance, does anyone know whether Greg has stated if female gargoyles feel pain from laying eggs, the way human beings feel pain from giving birth? I ask because most species don't feel the same amount of labor pains that humans feel, and the Bible attributes this to Eve's punishment for tempting Adam with the Forbidden Fruit. (It's become popular in modern society for people to also attribute menstruation to Eve's punishment, but I have yet to see any Biblical verse which actually says that. The book of Genesis clearly states 'To the woman he said, "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."')

Now, given that Greg has said he eventually plans to incorporate every major piece of mythology into the Gargoyles Universe, we can conclude that the story of Genesis must also fit in there somehow, although it will likely have significant differences from the way it's told in the Bible. So this raises the question, did gargoyles also eat some part of the Fruit? Since gargoyles, like human beings, have a unique form of intelligence that other species on our planet lack, it makes sense that they would have eaten some piece of the Fruit. Yet, their intelligence isn't quite like humans' intelligence. They all view their clan as one unit, without the need for names. They usually aren't motivated by greed, although there are clear exceptions. Did the original gargoyles get some smaller, less tainted piece of the Fruit?

For that matter, was their punishment not labor pains and having to work the soil like the humans', but rather, having to turn to stone during the day? Is that also why gargoyles don't tend to segregate their society by gender the way human beings do, because unlike us, both sexes got the same punishment?

Food for thought.
Arlo
Gargoyles need not apply.
posted @ Sun, Jun 24, 2012 1:49:40 pm EDT from 173.54.75.69

Whoops, that last comment was me. Sorry.
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
posted @ Sun, Jun 24, 2012 1:47:01 pm EDT from 75.76.235.156

"JURGAN - The impression I had is that the people who weren't keen on this place becoming a "Young Justice" forum were motivated, not by a dislike for "Young Justice", but by a feeling that this was supposed to be a "Gargoyles" forum, which means that "Korra" discussions would probably meet the same objection from them."

I doubt that. I think people were upset that we seem to talk about nothing but YJ. I don't think anyone would mind a little variety in the discussions. If we talked about nothing but Korra for two weeks, then we'd have a problem.
Anonymous
posted @ Sun, Jun 24, 2012 1:30:34 pm EDT from 75.76.235.156

J29 : "In the prequel TV series" Wow, someone here besides me actually watched that?

I'd certainly buy the Enchantress being a fay. Not sure it'd be the Sisters, though. While they enjoy twisting destiny's strings, it seems to me that they mainly do that when there's a tangible benefit to themselves to be gained. The scheme sounds more like one Grandmother would come up with, IMHO. (Though that's an awful long way away from Queen Florence Island...)

I wouldn't read too much into Cassim's accent. Aside from the carpet salesman/narrator, no one in the Aladdin universe sounds like they come from anywhere near Arabia. And besides, I always thought (and I could be wrong, given my rather sketchy knowledge of Arabic history) that the events of Aladdin took place during the first millenium A.D., and therefore before Macbeth's time. Though trying to make any sense at all out of a world that seems to be in an Arabian desert, with Turkish architecture and vaugely Persian-looking people, who all speak with American accents, is likely a total waste of time.

Algernon : "Next you'll be suggesting that Maleficent is Oberon's evil sister." Maybe not sister, but certainly an Oberati of some sort. Especially given that Sleeping Beauty and Gargoyles had very similar animation styles, it's not far-fetched at all to think that they could be in the same universe.

Seriously stretching this conversation into totally non-Gargoyles speculation, I've always thought that Sleeping Beauty and Cinderella took place in the same universe, possibly even the same kingdom. Several centuries apart, of course. Sleeping Beauty we can date with certainty to the early 14th century, and judging from Drizella and Anastasia's fashion sense, Cinderella probably took place in the 18th century. Given their 'astonishingly similar' voices, is it possible that Lady Tremaine might be something like 1/32 fay?
Spen
posted @ Sun, Jun 24, 2012 12:52:35 pm EDT from 69.63.7.88

J29> Next you'll be suggesting that Maleficent is Oberon's evil sister. ;)
Algernon
posted @ Sun, Jun 24, 2012 11:39:07 am EDT from 86.40.254.144

JURGAN - The impression I had is that the people who weren't keen on this place becoming a "Young Justice" forum were motivated, not by a dislike for "Young Justice", but by a feeling that this was supposed to be a "Gargoyles" forum, which means that "Korra" discussions would probably meet the same objection from them.
Todd Jensen
I'm a Hufflepuff!
posted @ Sun, Jun 24, 2012 8:18:13 am EDT from 108.226.1.5

I also love the Avatar Last Air Bender universe. The story in the original was so deep. I haven't finish catching up on Korra yet.
K. Wable
posted @ Sun, Jun 24, 2012 2:10:28 am EDT from 69.122.79.221

Todd Jensen> Even with the hiatus, the YJ comic still comes out monthly, so we get new stories per month regardless.
Antiyonder
posted @ Sun, Jun 24, 2012 12:59:13 am EDT from 50.106.9.184

Jurgan> Don't worry, you'll get at least 14 more.

And just like Greg, Bryan and Mike do have plans beyond the second season.
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!
posted @ Sat, Jun 23, 2012 11:35:46 pm EDT from 174.101.230.22

So, if we don't want to talk about YJ and don't have anything to say about Gargs, how about Korra? Because, holy crap, that was [SPOILER] the most tragic story I've seen on a children's show since- I don't know, Hunter's Moon? City of Stone? We saw sibling rivalry during Airbender, and just like there, it was the father who screwed up both children. The great Clancy Brown is always fun to hate, but the story was heartbreaking all on its own. But Tarlok blowing up the boat at the end... my jaw dropped, because I knew it was the perfect ending, but I did not believe they would go there. This show is beautiful in every way. [/SPOILER] While I'm glad they told the story the way they wanted and weren't forced to drag it out, I hope we get more episodes, because I'm in love with this world and these characters.
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
posted @ Sat, Jun 23, 2012 11:06:32 pm EDT from 75.76.235.156

Todd> "I'm not sure we have much to say about "Gargoyles" that's new."

That particular opinion has popped up now and then in this Room and it never fails to surprise me. I find new aspects of Gargoyles to think about and discuss all the time, and when that fails me someone usually comes up with something new around here. Just a week ago or so we had a really interesting conversation about Lexington and we discussed some aspects of his personality that we had never really explored here before, for instance. And though the comics are a few years old now, they really added a lot to the already rich mythos that is Gargoyles. Despite the occasional fads such as Spec. Spider-Man and Young Justice, this will always be a Gargoyles site at the core and there will always be something Gargoyles-related to talk about.
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"It's almost as if he is trying to keep us offguard while something else is happening." - Goliath, "The Price"
posted @ Sat, Jun 23, 2012 10:53:14 pm EDT from 99.92.109.252

Question: Has anyone else seen Brave yet? And has anyone else spent time thinking about whether it could or could not fit into Gargoyles continuity?

[SPOILER] I think it fits pretty well actually. You have will-o'-the-wisp. The witch could be a member of Oberon's Children. And Gruoch and maybe even Kathryn could be Merida's descendents. Kathryn takes more after Elinor and Gruoch after Merida heself. [/SPOILER]

Previously released Disney films that could work in Gargoyles continuity fairly easily:

Pirates of the Caribbean-[SPOILER] Calypso and the 'Heathen Gods'=Oberon's Children [/SPOILER]. [SPOILER] Mermaids [/SPOILER] are hybrid creatures a la the New Olympians. Jack Sparrow is a trickster, in spirit like Xanatos if not actually mystically. And if we accept the crossover premise, at some point in time Macbeth and [SPOILER] Will Turner [/SPOILER] will have had a drink to discuss how much destiny and immortality suck.

Little Mermaid--Merpeople and Ursula are hybrids. Ariel's voice is such a powerful thing because she happened to be born with an active fae talent, albeit a subtle one. In the prequel TV series [SPOILER] we do actually see her use it to successfully fight against a villain who has some ability to brainwash via his voice by singing a song to remind the affected of their true feelings of friendship for each other, so it's more than just being aesthetically pleasing. And in the film itself Ursula uses Ariel's voice to brainwash Eric magically, so there is some evidence of it having mystical properties. [/SPOILER]. The Trident is an object of Avalon magic a la the two mirrors. And Eric has *something* supernatural going on because he's pretty dang hard to kill for an ordinary mortal. And for what it's worth his facial design also slightly reminds me of Macbeth and we never do see his parents.

Beauty and The Beast-The Enchantress is totally [SPOILER] one or more of the Weird Sisters. The pulling of destiny's strings is very much their M.O. [/SPOILER] and when they flash back to the curse being performed in the sequel [SPOILER] she's voiced by Kath Soucie. [/SPOILER]

Aladdin- I have no idea how to work genies into Gargoyles cosmology BUT in the third movie [SPOILER] John Rhys-Davies voiced Aladdin's father Cassim. Complete with Scottish accent. [/SPOILER] Therefore we could theorize [SPOILER] Macbeth could be Aladdin's grandfather and Cassim picked it up from him before he split to hide his non-aging. [/SPOILER]

This is all just me having fun playing what-if and not to be taken super-seriously by any means. Besides eveything is a little boy's imagination anyway: http://home.vicnet.net.au/~kwgow/crossovers.html
J29
"Love makes you do the wacky."
posted @ Sat, Jun 23, 2012 10:41:45 pm EDT from 184.12.118.247

I discovered how to get the clicking sounds working again, but still can't figure out what happened to the minor background sounds on Pottermore. (I can get the big ones like McGonagall in cat form purring, Vernon's car honking, Fluffy growling - but not the little things like birds chirping.)

Sorry for the triple post.
Todd Jensen
I'm a Hufflepuff!
posted @ Sat, Jun 23, 2012 7:13:01 pm EDT from 108.226.1.5

Sorry for the double post, but - I recently upgraded from Internet Explorer 8 to Internet Explorer 9. Since then, I've found that when I click on a link, I no longer hear a clicking sound accompanying it. (Also, over at Pottermore, the smaller background sounds are missing - I can hear the big noises, but not the little ones like birds chirping.) Has anybody else experienced this?
Todd Jensen
I'm a Hufflepuff!
posted @ Sat, Jun 23, 2012 6:57:01 pm EDT from 108.226.1.5

Of course, "Young Justice" has one big advantage over "Gargoyles"; it has new stories coming out (well, the hiatus has just begun, but it's temporary), and "Gargoyles" doesn't. So there's more new material to speculate on. I'm not sure we have much to say about "Gargoyles" that's new.
Todd Jensen
I'm a Hufflepuff!
posted @ Sat, Jun 23, 2012 6:27:59 pm EDT from 108.226.1.5

Was browsing Nerd Girl Problems on Tumblr and found couple relevant to Ask Greg:

http://justnerdgirlproblems.tumblr.com/post/22212279981/suggested-by-robinluvzbatgirl#notes

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1z3alKaqh1rom21zo1_1280.jpg

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzq3nlTXWu1rom21zo1_1280.jpg
J29
"Love makes you do the wacky."
posted @ Sat, Jun 23, 2012 2:10:35 pm EDT from 184.12.118.247

Ah ok. I understand and it makes sense to me. I'm glad someone else finds the YJ talk annoying too. Anyway, I am aware this isn't Greg's site. I never stated it as such but because I was sleepy when writing it my wording probably didn't make sense and was confusing. Sorry about that.
K. Wable
posted @ Sat, Jun 23, 2012 11:54:37 am EDT from 69.122.79.221

Anyone like Mario Bros games? Anyone like donating to a good cause? Check out http://www.mariomarathon.com/
Anthony Tini
"Sorry you did it, or sorry you got caught? After all we'd been through, how could you think I wouldn't recognize your touch inside my mind? Didn't you know what that touch meant to me? And to have you pervert it like that; guess I was kidding myself..."
posted @ Sat, Jun 23, 2012 7:15:08 am EDT from 50.29.205.45

Greg B. gets tense with every newbie. It's almost a ritual hazing.
Spen
posted @ Sat, Jun 23, 2012 6:50:36 am EDT from 69.63.7.88

As a hardcore Gargoyles fan, I've also found the YJ talk annoying, but Greg seems to want it here since it's the show he's working on right now, so I don't complain. But yeah, it does get to be a bit much when almost every single post is about YJ and there's maybe one or two about Gargoyles.

So what's with this ongoing tension I keep seeing between Greg B. and J29? You two sleeping together?
Arlo
Gargoyles need not apply.
posted @ Sat, Jun 23, 2012 5:30:13 am EDT from 173.54.75.69

I sure hope so.
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"It's almost as if he is trying to keep us offguard while something else is happening." - Goliath, "The Price"
posted @ Sat, Jun 23, 2012 5:25:44 am EDT from 99.92.109.252

K. WABLE> This isn't actually Greg Weisman's site, it's Eric Tribou's site, and it happens to host ASK GREG. It was founded back in the 90's when "Gargoyles" was still on the air, and was the hub of the "Gargoyles" fandom. And, to it's core, it will always be a "Gargoyles" site.

We discussed "Spectacular Spider-Man" a lot when that show was on, we discuss YJ now. But sooner or later, YJ will come to an end. The YJ talk will probably die down a bit... but "Gargoyles" will never die down on here.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
"Brave words for a man who hides his face behind a hood." - Goliath, "The Journey."
posted @ Sat, Jun 23, 2012 4:12:02 am EDT from 24.185.74.60

Hello everyone,

This is just an observation, but I was wondering if anyone had discussed maybe changing the overall theme or name of this fan site? I've noticed Young Justice getting a lot of hype on here because it is still fairly new, but Gargoyles has seemed to die down so the banner is a little misleading. :(
It is interesting that this group has evolved to a behind the scenes fan site focused on works that Greg W and others involved have worked on. Once again this is only an observation.
K. Wable
posted @ Sat, Jun 23, 2012 2:22:58 am EDT from 69.122.79.221

TODD> The McKellan version of "Richard III" was magnificent.

Like Greg, I recommend "Titus" for the non-squeamish. There is a rather brutal scene where Lavinia is brutally raped by Tamora's two sons, and then to prevent her from talking they cut out her tongue, cut off her hands and they actually stick tree branches into her bloody stumps. It's a very hard scene to watch.

Oh Will, you so crazy.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
"Brave words for a man who hides his face behind a hood." - Goliath, "The Journey."
posted @ Sat, Jun 23, 2012 12:31:30 am EDT from 24.185.74.60

Regarding Dick and Zatanna> While it was a VERY brief moment in Happy New Year, when Z was addressing Superboy, MissMartian, and Dick about how (paraphrased) they still have open invitations to joint he league.
Well it all seemed rather impersonal to Dick and instead just a 'hey, it's a group thing' sort of thing.
My point being, and given how Zanatana apparently has no qualms about being coy with things like that - ref her flirty nature of season 1 as well as the kiss at end of season 1, then I suspect it isn't an ongoing relationship.

Of course that makes a bunch of assumptions such as a) that Z's personality remained the same even after 5 years of maturing b) that she and dick didn't already have a more personal conversation together (off screen) thus she didn't need to be lovey dovey in front of everyone and c) that she and dick didn't already decide to keep it a quiet thing for some reason or another.
also, dick using the word "history" (in "we have a history") implies past.

so in my long rambling way, i'm just saying i don't think it's an ongoing thing but a past occurrence that ended amicably and as friends and may be revisited at some point in the future but for whatever reason they aren't involved now.
Some Geek
http://www.squidoo.com/thegeeklens-cartoons
posted @ Fri, Jun 22, 2012 11:35:01 am EDT from 98.204.100.195

Yeah at some point we'll learn that Zatanna keeps her and Dick's baby under her hat. ;)
Anthony Tini
"Sorry you did it, or sorry you got caught? After all we'd been through, how could you think I wouldn't recognize your touch inside my mind? Didn't you know what that touch meant to me? And to have you pervert it like that; guess I was kidding myself..."
posted @ Fri, Jun 22, 2012 7:29:17 am EDT from 50.29.205.45

Chad: At this point, we don't know. Dick evidently had a crush on her in 2010, and Zatanna demonstrated quite...vividly that the feelings were mutual in "Auld Acquaintances," but that's all we know for sure. Dick did say they "have a history" in "Depths," which to me suggests more than just a single kiss, but whether they just went on a date or two or actively maintained a relationship - and whether or not that relationship is still ongoing - is something none of us know.

Still, I'm pretty confident we'll learn at least some of this if and when Zatanna next has a significant appearance in the show.
Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
"Hey Mr. Tambourine Man, play a song for me..." - Bob Dylan
posted @ Fri, Jun 22, 2012 6:31:24 am EDT from 66.91.223.104

"She's Out of my League" started on E a few minutes ago. Check it out if you have the time.
Anthony Tini
posted @ Thu, Jun 21, 2012 9:09:09 pm EDT from 50.29.205.45

In Young Justice do Robin/Nightwing ever date or is currently dating Zatanna?
Chad - [swimmersoccerboy@aol.com]
posted @ Thu, Jun 21, 2012 8:47:38 pm EDT from 174.60.26.11

BISHANSKY - Just read your link to Greg Weisman's review of "Titus". The part that most got my attention was the mixture of time periods (as Greg put it, motorcycles and chariots side by side) - bizarre, but appealing if done well (and portrayed as deliberate surrealism). Reminded me a bit of Ian McKellen's adaptation of "Richard III" in a 1930's setting (which managed to make the best-known line in the play, "My kingdom for a horse!" work in a period of mechanized warfare).
Todd Jensen
I'm a Hufflepuff!
posted @ Thu, Jun 21, 2012 6:49:54 pm EDT from 108.226.1.5

Pterobat, I initially brought up the idea of a TV/Movie club where we could all pick things to watch as a group during the YJ hiatus. My suggestion was it might be better that selections *for that* be PG-ish. Not that no one should discuss adult movies ever.

But since that's looking less and less likely to happen at all I'm just gonna drop the argument here too.
J29
"Love makes you do the wacky."
posted @ Thu, Jun 21, 2012 3:38:37 pm EDT from 184.12.118.247

R-Rated> Yeah, I don't see a problem with bringing up R-rated entertainment when discussing the kind of things we like to watch. It *is* the parent's job to determine what kids would watch, and name-dropping isn't going to change that.
Pterobat - [incisivis@gmail.com]
posted @ Thu, Jun 21, 2012 3:17:53 pm EDT from 174.3.224.115

I think I'll just leave this here:

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?rid=269
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
"Brave words for a man who hides his face behind a hood." - Goliath, "The Journey."
posted @ Thu, Jun 21, 2012 3:11:06 pm EDT from 24.185.74.60

Algernon, sorry didn't see your post. I get your point.

My thinking was that since this would be specifically about watching the tv shows/films as a group rather than quoting "Go to the mattresses" in passing, or saying "Hey I saw Saw 12 this weekend. It was pretty good but kinda gory." maybe it was better to avoid picking out R-rated fare, since it's really not a necessity to do so, even though pretty much all the regulars are of age.

But thanks for the way your phrased your response. :)
J29
"Love makes you do the wacky."
posted @ Thu, Jun 21, 2012 3:09:39 pm EDT from 184.12.118.247

It's not the internet's job to baby-sit Little Timmy. But if Mom checks out a site, the person running it says "Yes this is totally a place for Little Timmy to find our more about and discuss his favorite shows," and everything looks legit, then I think the fellow members of the website should respect that. That's what it boils down to. *Respect.* I respect that Greg wants the site to be accessible to all fans and I don't want to do anything disparage that. And if that means erring on the side of not inciting a Soccer Mom rampage, then so be it. I can deal with that.

Greg B, I did think it was interesting how you're so sure that "family friendly" specifically referred to language, considering the very first word you used in that past disagreement we had. But hey, bygones.

The only reason I brought up the idea of a TV/Movie club in the first place is because I thought it would be a fun thing to do and a way to keep from pining for YJ during the hiatus and I really didn't want to incite further drama.

So Greg B, I'm gonna defer to you. If you still want to do TV/Movie Club, you choose whatever you like for your weeks and I'll do the same. If there's a problem I'm sure someone will let you know.
J29
"Love makes you do the wacky."
posted @ Thu, Jun 21, 2012 2:59:52 pm EDT from 184.12.118.247

J29> I really think you're seriously misinterpreting Greg's "keep it PG" guideline. In all the years I've been posting here, no one has ever taken it to mean that we're not allowed discuss "R-rated" fiction like The Godfather or Game of Thrones or what have you.

And I think fretting over "Little Timmy" is a bit silly in this context. Most of the S8 regulars are in their late teens to (very) early 30s.
Algernon
posted @ Thu, Jun 21, 2012 2:42:29 pm EDT from 212.129.80.10

<<Little Timmy going to Mom and asking if he can watch the Godfather, and Mom having some questions about where he came up with that request and not being too happy with the answers, is not a situation I think anyone wants to deal with. >>

I think what goes on in Little Timmy's house is his family's own business. And if he does ask to watch "The Godfather" it is his parents' responsibility to say either yes or no. And if she gets mad at this CR because of it, that says way more about her than it does about us.

In other words, it is not OUR job to babysit Little Timmy. He shouldn't be on the internet unsupervised anyway. Maybe a social worker should visit Little Timmy's house if his parents are that neglectful and blaming everyone else if he gets an idea they don't like.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
"Brave words for a man who hides his face behind a hood." - Goliath, "The Journey."
posted @ Thu, Jun 21, 2012 2:28:11 pm EDT from 24.185.74.60

Greg B., I really don't know one way or the other. I took a broader definition, i.e. wanting the site to be a place where people in the age demographic of YJ or Gargoyles and their parents feel comfortable visiting, in order to be considerate and stem any potential problems. Little Timmy going to Mom and asking if he can watch the Godfather, and Mom having some questions about where he came up with that request and not being too happy with the answers, is not a situation I think anyone wants to deal with.

And since in the wide wide world of film and television there are many many great works that are accessible to all or most ages (The very ones this site is built on for example.) and we're looking at a hiatus of maybe a few months I didn't see the issue in erring on the side of caution.

No one is saying that works made solely made for adults don't have value or shouldn't be discussed ever. I'm not trying to censor anyone. I don't care if you watch the Godfather films on loop until your eyes bleed or if in RL every other word that comes out of your mouth starts with the sixth letter of the alphabet. That is your right. As it is mine if I choose to spend a weekend marathoning Game of Thrones to the point I actually start picking up Dothraki sentence structure.

My point was, in the interest of preventing headaches and complications for the ones running the site that we all enjoy, maybe we should try and keep content in mind when we make our choices for this one thing in this particular space.
J29
"Love makes you do the wacky."
posted @ Thu, Jun 21, 2012 2:15:17 pm EDT from 184.12.118.247

I believe when Greg said that, he meant he doesn't want us outright swearing in here. Not that he doesn't want us discussing films that are R-rated. You're making a mountain out of an ant hill.

For example, we talk about historical events and figures all the time. Or literary. How is saying that in Shakespeare's play, MacDudd beheads Macbeth any different than saying in "Kill Bill" O-Ren Ishii runs across the table and decapitates Boss Matsumoto for disrespecting her heritage?

Yeah, I really think you're misinterpreting what Greg said.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
"Brave words for a man who hides his face behind a hood." - Goliath, "The Journey."
posted @ Thu, Jun 21, 2012 1:16:15 pm EDT from 24.185.74.60

Greg B, I don't know how I can make this more clear: The "family friendly" space thing, *not* my idea. It was Greg Weisman's statement. I'm just trying to be respectful of his wishes. I don't really think suggestions like the Godfather or Goodfellas, for example, even though they are excellent films, follow the spirit of that intent. I also think even if we watched those films, that limitation would end up hurting the discussion because the intense violence, adult content, etc. are narratively important.

I love the TV series Game of Thrones but I wouldn't bring it up as a subject for discussion here because trying to code the events of the show into 'safe terms' would be laughable. I did consider amending my own picks to some Buffy The Vampire Slayer or Firefly episodes since Greg is a professed fan of Joss's, but the episodes I thought most interesting wouldn't necessarily be a good fit for Ask Greg, and the ones that would have fit weren't necessarily ones I wanted to discuss. So I adapted and went back to my original suggestions.

There were definitely films on your list that are fine content wise, too, though. So if you're still up for it, pick whatever you think is appropriate and worth watching. I'll trust your judgment.

June 23-30 J29: BBC Merlin- "The Poisoned Chalice" and "The Beginning of the End"
June 30-July 7 J29: BBC Merlin- "The Labyrinth of Gedref" and "Le Morte d'Arthur"
July 7- 14 Greg Bishansky : TBD
July 14-21 Greg Bishansky : TBD
July 21-28 Masterdramon : TBD
July 28-August 4 Masterdramon : TBD
J29
"Love makes you do the wacky."
posted @ Thu, Jun 21, 2012 11:56:53 am EDT from 184.12.118.247

Anthony> I forgot to add this. I wonder how "pre-" the alpha stage currently is for Legacy. After all, the Facebook page (among others) still lists a February 2013 release window. I can see alpha and beta testing taking about nine months (especially if both the development and testing teams are fairly large), but if they're still far from even alpha testing, I would expect your release assumption to be more accurate.

Also, a little tidbit in the Facebook comments basically stated something all but outright: "Blue Beetle is not in the primary 12 playable characters announced for the game. But we have not announced the 4 DLC characters yet." That leaves three reveals to come (along with the unknown game-unique villain).
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!
posted @ Thu, Jun 21, 2012 8:58:01 am EDT from 137.183.232.25

Todd - I prefer the snicker that I added instead; the basic smile emoticon has far too many interpretations. Unfortunately though, it still sometimes gets missed.
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!
posted @ Thu, Jun 21, 2012 8:40:49 am EDT from 137.183.232.25

@Greg Bishansky Thanks for posting the Angry Joe video. It's great to hear an update about the game.

I googled "Pre-Alpha" and according to Wikipedia, there is 12 to 18 months before code release, which is when the code is free of bugs and shipped to the manufacturer for review. So if things go well, I'm guessing that we'll be getting our hands on the game come the Christmas Holiday 2013. Hopefully by that time we are all enjoying the third or fourth season of YJ. :)
Anthony Tini
posted @ Thu, Jun 21, 2012 7:58:26 am EDT from 159.240.11.245

BRAINIAC - I think it's another example of "Sarcasm depends on the tone of voice and doesn't communicate well to the written word". (Though this icon - :) - helps a lot.)
Todd Jensen
I'm a Hufflepuff!
posted @ Thu, Jun 21, 2012 7:37:18 am EDT from 108.226.1.5

Algernon> You're not wrong, exactly. But I dunno. There's something that really intrinsically bothers me about this weird need to insert things into this singular universe. The DCAU, though not always flawlessly consistent, at least makes SENSE to me (even if I'm not wild about it as a concept, though I like the shows therein) because of how linearly it progresses. I feel like the wider scopes of EMH and Wolvie and the X kinda ruin what made Spectacular interesting for me. Because though Weisman had planned it in the mind of a wider hypothetical MU, Spectacular was far more interesting to me as simply the Spider-Man Universe, not the Spider-Man corner of the Marvel Universe.

But I'm probably in the minority on that, and have no issue agreeing to disagree (I'd hope not, since I brought it up to begin with!). I just quibbled with something like EMH being a possible "sequel." It's not a literal usage, I know, but it just seemed off to me. But that's just differences in perception, I suppose.

J29>There's a fantastic film that might be a little hard to track down, so I don't know the practicality in suggesting it, but I feel would really reflect a neat Weisman-related element of the writing we're all a fan of.

"Mister Lonely" by Harmony Korine is about a Michael Jackson impersonator in Paris who meets a Marilyn Monroe, who takes him to an island commune of celebrity impersonators. Once welcomed into the community, they all make it their mission to perform the greatest show on Earth.

I feel like this would actually be a great film to watch if you want to find movies with stories that reflect certain elements of Weisman's writing. A lot of his writing reinterprets or extrapolates from various historical and literary figures, and this is basically the bread and butter of Mister Lonely. The entire film is about each individual character choosing a specific identity in the form of a celebrity and trying to determine his or her place in that identity. I really think it'd be apropos to a watchlist that tries to find common things Weisman fans can appreciate. And how can you go wrong with a cast like Michael Jackson, Charlie Chaplin, Marilyn Monroe, and Shirley Temple?

It's admittedly a little racy as a film. Not SO bad, but a few moments break that PG/PG-13 range. So while it breaks the mold you're looking for just a bit, it's such a good movie that so uniquely approaches a specific Weisman theme that I think it's at least considering (if people could get it).

MOVIE LIST IN GENERAL> A theme viewing seems like it should adhere to certain standards, at least I'd figure. Would there be a way to distill Weisman's style or themes he enjoys into various categories? He loves revisiting unconventional, yet archetypal romances, so that could be a category (I'd recommend "Harold and Maude", personally). Something solid and primarily about redemption would be a good choice too. A historical epic and a good literary adaptation (which you guys seem to be covering well). Though you're nervous, J, I think a crime story wouldn't really be out of the question given Weisman's love of Hillstreet Blues and detective fiction, along with the heavy police elements in Gargoyles (and the prison episodes of Spectacular Spider-Man and Young Justice), though that seems to lend more to movies about criminals through the perspective of those enforcing the law than movies about criminal protagonists. But that could probably be given leeway. Weisman's done enough superhero stuff that a superhero movie would probably work, though presumably one that's been adapted through a very specific auteur prism rather than one that tried to replicate its source material (so something like Watchmen or Kick-Ass doesn't seem right).

I quibble Bishanky's list because, while it's a list of solid films, it's not really that great of a theme list. There's nothing really unique about it beyond "Gargoyles is good, let's watch good stuff." I feel like watching things that relate to the various themes of Weisman's writing would probably be a bit more apropos, and the creative skirting might result in people discovering stuff they might not've otherwise watched. A watch group should be an interesting experience, it should approach things with the intent of looking at things from a new perspective. As nice a list it is, Greg, it feels a smidgeon too academic to me. A themed movie watch group should have some degree of personality to it. A film school based list will provide a wonderful experience, but the philosophy of "Gargoyles was great, so let's just watch great movies" seems too broad for a watch group based on a specific auteur's style.

Though some of those seem like they'd fit.
Harlan Phoenix
posted @ Thu, Jun 21, 2012 7:33:08 am EDT from 76.2.69.249

J29> No need to schedule Merlin on my behalf. My initial snarky remark about a lack of Sam Neill was intended as just that and nothing more.
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!
posted @ Thu, Jun 21, 2012 12:14:51 am EDT from 174.101.230.22

On the larger note, I disagree, I think the movies I named are perfect for families, I know I watched them with mine growing up.

And for the most part, I kept it tame. I almost put "Silence of the Lambs" on there. I suppose "Titus" is just as strong, but the Shakespeare connections were irresistible.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
"Brave words for a man who hides his face behind a hood." - Goliath, "The Journey."
posted @ Thu, Jun 21, 2012 12:03:20 am EDT from 24.185.74.60

<<I'd kind of rather see something you, as an individual, just really like and enjoy watching, even if it's not on any top lists. >>

You just did.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
"Brave words for a man who hides his face behind a hood." - Goliath, "The Journey."
posted @ Thu, Jun 21, 2012 12:00:01 am EDT from 24.185.74.60

Greg B, those are definitely top-notch films but I don't know if all of those would be a great fit for something like this, in part because of the issue of appropriateness for discussion on a "family site". (Again, Greg W.'s statement not mine.) I like the Godfather, Goodfellas, and Shakespeare In Love etc. a lot too, but family fare they are not. TBH choosing from a consensus made "Best Movies of All Time" list feels a little less personal and more like homework. I'd kind of rather see something you, as an individual, just really like and enjoy watching, even if it's not on any top lists.

Which kind of relates to why pulling from some of Greg's personal favorites sounds like a fun way to go to me, because I'd be interested in seeing what elements stuck out to him that he later incorporated into his own work.

Hmmmm what if everyone got two weeks to pick something of their choice to watch: one movie OR two episodes of an "hour-length" TV Show, OR four episodes of a "half-hour length" TV show OR half of a miniseries per week? This way everyone gets a voice more quickly and we get more variety? And it was first come first serve? Does that seem better to everyone?

Based on the discussion so far the first six weeks would then look like this:

June 23-30 J29: BBC Merlin- "The Poisoned Chalice" and "The Beginning of the End"
June 30-July 7 J29: BBC Merlin- "The Labyrinth of Gedref" and "Le Morte d'Arthur"
July 7- 14 Brainiac: Merlin (1998) Part 1
July 14-21 Brainiac: Merlin (1998) Part 2
July 21-28 Greg Bishansky : Excalibur (?)
July 28-August 4 Greg Bishansky : TBD
J29
"Love makes you do the wacky."
posted @ Wed, Jun 20, 2012 11:58:21 pm EDT from 184.12.118.247

There's also the possibility of working off what Greg Weisman has listed as some of his favorite movies (in no particular order):

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=711

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=4698
Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
"Hey Mr. Tambourine Man, play a song for me..." - Bob Dylan
posted @ Wed, Jun 20, 2012 10:57:01 pm EDT from 72.253.187.7

This is just my opinion, but "Gargoyles" was always about top notch quality storytelling more than anything else. So if we do an s8 film club, I think the films we pick should reflect that.

In my film history class in film school, we watched some of the best movies ever made in the rough order that they were made, starting from the golden age of film and coming up to the modern era of film. I've modeled my list on their's, and frankly since we are talking about art, we should not be afraid of the R rating, because if we are, we're going to lose a ton of quality.

Anyway, maybe we do this once a week, maybe not. But here is my proposed list.

It Happened One Night (1934)
Gone With the Wind (1939)
Citizen Kane (1941)
The Maltese Falcon (1941)
Casablanca (1942)
The Third Man (1949)
All About Eve (1950)
Sunset Blvd. (1950)
On the Waterfront (1954)
Rear Window (1954)
Psycho (1960)
Lawrence of Arabia (1962)
The Bridge On the River Kwai (1957)
Dr. Strangelove (1964)
Bonnie and Clyde (1967)
2001: A Space Odyssey (1968)
Patton (1970)
The Godfather (1972)
The Godfather Part Two (1974)
Chinatown (1974)
One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest (1975)
Taxi Driver (1976)
Annie Hall (1977)
The Deer Hunter (1978)
Alien (1979)
Apocalypse Now (1979)
Raging Bull (1980)
Excalibur (1981)
Amadeus (1984)
Goodfellas (1990)
Schindler's List (1993)
Pulp Fiction (1994)
Shakespeare In Love (1998)
Titus (1999)
Gangs of New York (2002)
There Will Be Blood (2007)
Black Swan (2010)
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
"Brave words for a man who hides his face behind a hood." - Goliath, "The Journey."
posted @ Wed, Jun 20, 2012 9:37:31 pm EDT from 24.185.74.60

I think Excalibur is as about as close to a perfect adaptation distillation of the Arthurian Mythos as can realistically be achived in 140 minutes.

It's got almost everything, Uther and Arthur's birth, Sword in The Stone, Lancelot and Guinevere's tragic affair, Morgana and Mordred scheming, Merlin being an inscrutable old cuss, Percival questing for the Holy Grail.
Algernon
posted @ Wed, Jun 20, 2012 9:17:26 pm EDT from 109.125.52.158

I thought the Sam Neil Merlin series was incredibly hokey. Why not the film "Excalibur"? It's a tad hokey, but not embarrassingly so, and Helen Mirren's Morgana la Fay is terrific as is Nicol Williamson as Merlin.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
"Brave words for a man who hides his face behind a hood." - Goliath, "The Journey."
posted @ Wed, Jun 20, 2012 9:05:55 pm EDT from 24.185.74.60

Brainaic, I'd have no problem with following up the BBC Merlin with the Sam Neil miniseries and Merlin's Apprentice before moving on to another suggestion from someone else, if that's cool with everyone.

Assuming we're going forward, I was thinking for the season one of the BBC Merlin series, three episodes for the first week, then two episodes Saturday-Saturday, so we wrap up in an even six weeks. Which would look like:

June 23-30 "The Dragon's Call," "Valiant,"& "The Mark of Nimueh"
June 30-July 7 "The Poisoned Chalice" & Lancelot"
July 7- 14 A Remedy to Cure All Ills" & "The Gates of Avalon"
July 14-21 "The Beginning of the End" & Excalibur"
July 21-28 The Moment of Truth" & The Labyrinth of Gedref"
July 28-August 4 To Kill the King" & "Le Morte d'Arthur"

Any thoughts?
J29
"Love makes you do the wacky."
posted @ Wed, Jun 20, 2012 9:02:39 pm EDT from 184.12.118.247

Looks like Greg Weisman and Brandon Vietti sat down for an interview on the Angry Joe show.

http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/bt/aj/int/35632-eon-defiance-a-young-justice

Third video down.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
"Brave words for a man who hides his face behind a hood." - Goliath, "The Journey."
posted @ Wed, Jun 20, 2012 6:13:50 pm EDT from 24.185.74.60

BRAINIAC> Heh... Considering A:EMH is about to join TSSM and W&TXM in cancellation it's really a moot point anyway. Nothing will ever come of it outside fanfiction.
Algernon
posted @ Wed, Jun 20, 2012 5:21:09 pm EDT from 109.125.52.158

I recently decided to re-watch the entire gargoyles series this past week since I loved the show as a child and wanted to get a new perspective on it. Anyway, I realize how deep it all actually was and now I can't stop getting involved with groups and such. Does anyone know of a good fan based community that's really active besides here that I can get involved with?
K. Wable
K. Wable
posted @ Wed, Jun 20, 2012 4:18:53 pm EDT from 69.122.79.221

Obviously all the Marvel shows require datestamps as Young Justice has timestamps. Heh.

J29> If I was going to recommend anything concerning Sam Neill's Merlin, it would be going through the original miniseries, followed by Merlin's Apprentice from 2006. It's not really a direct sequel (despite being produced for Hallmark and bringing back Sam Neill), but I'm curious what the overall opinion folks would have between the two visions would be (especially for the very different interpretations of the Lady of the Lake which are both played by Miranda Richardson).
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!
posted @ Wed, Jun 20, 2012 3:28:58 pm EDT from 137.183.232.25

Algernon>

...

Good point.
Supermorff
posted @ Wed, Jun 20, 2012 2:34:23 pm EDT from 86.174.147.226

Supermorff>

He was older.

[SPOILER] "You've been doing the exact same thing to Spider-Man for years!" ~Tony Stark to J. Jonah Jameson [/SPOILER]
Algernon
posted @ Wed, Jun 20, 2012 1:04:06 pm EDT from 78.143.161.46

Harlan> The mainstream Marvel comics do that all the time. How was Spider-Man or the Avengers or whatever enhanced by the Days of Future Past timeline in X-Men?

Algernon> If EMH takes place after SpecSpidey, shouldn't Spidey have been older when he made his appearance?
Supermorff
posted @ Wed, Jun 20, 2012 12:55:46 pm EDT from 86.174.147.226

Algernon> "I like what I've seen of EMH and W&TXM, but I can't help but think that their inclusion in the same "canon" is more than a little stupid. Not to mention arbitrary, since I don't think EMH is enhanced at all by some looming pseudo-racist robot Holocaust always on the horizon."

Well regarding W&TXM: [SPOILER] The "pseudo-racist robot Holocaust" timeline was erased in the final episode so that's no longer an issue. [/SPOILER]

Keep in mind that W&TXM still had hope of being renewed for a second season while A:EMH was in development. Plus both shows shared a lot of the same creative team so it made a certain amount of sense to do some cross promotion. Early eps of A:EMH contained a couple of blink and you'll miss 'em references like Fury wanting to hand Whirlwind over to the MRD. Of course, by the time EMH hit the airwaves, W&TXM was long dead so the creators backed away from that. Now I think the official stance is they may or may not be in continuity depending on individual fan preference.

"Spectacular isn't, either. Nobody who world builds as sloppily as those two connect shows implies (read: they both exist, so they're obviously in the same world)should be allowed to include something outside their realm of production into their world. How is Spectacular enhanced at all from the presence of EMH, and by extension Wolvie & The X? It just doesn't feel very cohesive. It's like saying Hal Jordan's off world in YJ because he's currently facing the Red Lantern menace in Frontier Space.
Harlan Phoenix."

I do have mixed feelings about W&TXM but I do think EMH feels like a natural outgowth from the SpecSpideyverse. Greg always said he saw SpecSpidey as taking place in the very very early years of the MU. Spidey and the FF are pretty much the ONLY publicly active heroes. Hulk's an urban myth, Ant-Man is operating below the radar and Tony hasn't been to Asia/Afghanistan yet.

Skip a few years to EMH and the MU's super-population has grown quite a bit. Hulk is a known public menace, Ant-Man's partnered with Wasp and Tony's an already established yet still inexperienced Iron Man.
Algernon
posted @ Wed, Jun 20, 2012 12:14:26 pm EDT from 78.143.161.46

Algernon>I like what I've seen of EMH and W&TXM, but I can't help but think that their inclusion in the same "canon" is more than a little stupid. Not to mention arbitrary, since I don't think EMH is enhanced at all by some looming pseudo-racist robot Holocaust always on the horizon.

Spectacular isn't, either. Nobody who world builds as sloppily as those two connect shows implies (read: they both exist, so they're obviously in the same world)should be allowed to include something outside their realm of production into their world. How is Spectacular enhanced at all from the presence of EMH, and by extension Wolvie & The X? It just doesn't feel very cohesive. It's like saying Hal Jordan's off world in YJ because he's currently facing the Red Lantern menace in Frontier Space.
Harlan Phoenix
posted @ Wed, Jun 20, 2012 11:09:48 am EDT from 76.2.69.249

HARLAN> I imagine if Greg had ever gotten to introducing time-travel to TSSM, it would've made a hell of a lot more sense than in W&TXM
Algernon
posted @ Wed, Jun 20, 2012 10:02:18 am EDT from 78.143.161.46

Oh yeah, the writers admitted Smallville was an influence from day one. Frankly I watch the BBC Merlin the same way I watch the Disney version of a fairytale. It's going to have some of the same characters, a loose take on the plot, keep the emotional touchstones and the things pop culture has absorbed (Snow White needs her apple, Rapunzel's got her hair) but it's going to be its own thing.

Which I'm fine with because it's always billed itself that way. It's never pretended to be "the totally accurate representation of the myths of Merlin and Arthur." As opposed to Starz's Camelot which took just as many liberties with the legend, seemed to be advertising itself as the "OMG HARDCORE DARK REALISTIC PORTRAYL," and gave me an Arthur I wanted to punch in the face. Also I think it's fair because Arthurian legend is a patchwork by many different people anyway. Monmouth, Malory and everyone before, after, and in-between had some major disagreements with each other.

Brainiac, I actually like the Sam Neill miniseries too (Helena Bonham Carter as Morgan Le Fey and Snarky Jerk Mordred=Yes please), though it certainly takes its own liberties with the mythos. If you wanted to suggest that as something to take a look at later, it could potentially be fun to compare and contrast the two Merlins.

As for the Gargoyles connections, Well Greg has always said that he imagined Arthur as a man who was not by nature a thinker but rather learned how to be, and I think that's an arc we definitely see in the show. The nature of fate and destiny, the destruction caused by hatred, and prejudice, and how vengeance can become a never-ending cycle are some big themes that crop up in both. There's more but I don't want to get into specific spoilers.
J29
"Love makes you do the wacky."
posted @ Wed, Jun 20, 2012 9:32:21 am EDT from 184.12.118.247

Algernon>"Plus the creators have gone on record saying they like to consider TSSM cannon in their universe, so it can be regarded as sequel of sorts."

Don't they also include Wolverine and the X-Men in that really arbitrary canon? Because now I'm just going to pretend the future of Spectacular Spider-Man is Peter repeatedly getting punched in the face by a Sentinel.
Harlan Phoenix
posted @ Wed, Jun 20, 2012 9:16:48 am EDT from 76.2.69.249

I've only seen the first season of "Merlin" (which aired on NBC - confusingly, like the late 90's mini-series starring Sam Neill). I rather liked it, though like Spen, noticed the liberties taken with the legend. (On the plus side, its depiction of the Questing Beast's appearance was accurate.) And some of the moments jarred me (such as a guy executed as a sorcerer in the first episode having a first name, middle name, and surname - that kind of set-up seems out of place in a world where almost everyone has only one name - with one or two exceptions, such as Uther and Arthur's "surname" of "Pendragon").

I didn't even know that Percival had showed up; must have been one of the later seasons. (Though, to be fair to the writers, Percival *was* depicted as naive in the medieval romances (the Percival of the Gargoyles Universe must have changed a lot over the centuries to develop the cunning you'd expect from a leading member of the Illuminati).

And, yes, "Merlin" does seem like an Arthurian version of "Smallville".
Todd Jensen
I'm a Hufflepuff!
posted @ Wed, Jun 20, 2012 7:56:41 am EDT from 108.226.1.5

J29 : Ahh, Merlin. With the exception of Todd, I've probably read more Arthurian literature than anyone else here. So as you can imagine, I wasn't overly thrilled with some of the changes made.

It was quite obvious right from day one that the creators were majorly influenced by "Smallville". And much in the same way that Lionel Luther made the first few seasons of Smallville watchable, Anthony Stewart Head's masterful portrayal of Uther Pendragon was by far the highlight of the first season. It took until about season three for me to finally warm up to the rest of the cast. But it did happen in the end, which is more than I can say for Smallville.

Not sure how I can really connect this to Gargoyles in any way. Our Arthur has apparently grown out of the smarmy git phase. And thier Percival seems to be far more brawn adn far lesss brain than our Duval.
Spen
posted @ Wed, Jun 20, 2012 7:20:07 am EDT from 69.63.7.88

Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes is airing new eps state-side starting this Saturday. I'd definitely recommend it to anyone who enjoyed Spec Spidey and wants to get a look at the larger MU. Plus the creators have gone on record saying they like to consider TSSM cannon in their universe, so it can be regarded as sequel of sorts.
Algernon
posted @ Wed, Jun 20, 2012 6:20:50 am EDT from 78.143.161.46

No Sam Neill? Pass.

<snicker>
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!
posted @ Wed, Jun 20, 2012 12:05:19 am EDT from 174.101.230.22

The only reason I suggested the PG-ish rating was because Greg has maintained that he wants "Ask Greg" to be a family friendly site. So while the Godfather is an awesome movie... it's not so conducive to that goal.

So since we have a few people on-board I'll give my suggestion to start us off: season/series one of the BBC TV Show Merlin. It's thirteen episodes, so at two episodes a week, plus finale, we'll hit seven weeks. It's on netflix and available for free on Hulu.

Greg connection is obviously Arthur's connection to Gargoyles mythos and his overall interest in the stories. There are also some familiar themes that crop up, but I won't spoil what they are just yet.

I will say going in, it's best to detach yourself from any expectations of 'traditional' Arthuriana because while many characters, situations, and familiar objects show up the show puts its own twists on them.

Spoilers for basic series premise and status quo as of the start of episode one:

[SPOILER] Twenty years ago King Uther Pendragon captured the last dragon and outlawed all magic in Camelot. Anyone found practicing sorcery will be put to death. His son Arthur is the crown prince and head of all the knights. Lady Morgana is the King's ward and is attended to by her maid "Gwen" (short for Gwenivere). Merlin is a young man with magical powers and he journeys to Camelot at his mother's behest, to meet her old friend Gaius, the Court Physician, and maybe discover his destiny. [/SPOILER]

Season One Trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPxq3myiQF0

So how does everyone feel about Merlin to start us off?
J29
"Love makes you do the wacky."
posted @ Tue, Jun 19, 2012 11:33:20 pm EDT from 184.12.118.247

Greg also mentioned at The Gathering that there was a Dark Ages story he was very excited about doing in the comics or wherever. If I remember correctly it was something called "Dreams" or something.
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"It's almost as if he is trying to keep us offguard while something else is happening." - Goliath, "The Price"
posted @ Tue, Jun 19, 2012 4:47:07 pm EDT from 99.92.109.252

@Phoenician Enjoy the ride! "Avatar: The Last Airbender" is one of the greatest complete series that I've ever had the joy of experiencing.
Anthony Tini
posted @ Tue, Jun 19, 2012 3:54:44 pm EDT from 159.240.11.245

Dark Ages: I'd also recommend looking at its page on the GargWiki which links to the various archived questions & answers here at Station 8.

And don't forget to check out "Once Upon a Time There Were Three Brothers . . . " a wonderful bit of prose written by Greg Weisman that basically serves as setup for the proposed spinoff :)

http://gargwiki.net/Gargoyles:_The_Dark_Ages
http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/faq.php?s=threebrothers

Welcome to CR by the way :)

J29: The idea sounds promising -- I'll admit, its largely because of Young Justice's current hiatus (as well as the positive reaction I keep hearing about Legend of Korra) that I've finally had enough reason to plunge into Avatar: the Last Airbender

If anything, it'd at least bring some discussion ;)

Adam: Never been to Europe myself, but safe travels man.
Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible . . . I hope it lasts," -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Tue, Jun 19, 2012 3:12:08 pm EDT from 24.206.36.236

K Wable>
There was/is a "Dark Ages" spin off idea that would focus on just that -- the clan back before the spell of stone sleep. Though the spinoff/comic never got a chance to be made, there are nuggets of what was planned in the ask greg archieves. check out the archives (http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/archives.php) and look for the "Dark Ages"
Some Geek
http://www.squidoo.com/thegeeklens-cartoons
posted @ Tue, Jun 19, 2012 2:51:05 pm EDT from 98.204.100.195

Hey there,
I have a quick question that maybe Greg answered but I haven't found it in the archives and the question poll is now closed. Anyway, does anyone know if Greg is planning on writing or has already written an issue about the Manhattan clan's past?
I was curious if he has written any stories about Goliath's childhood with his rookery siblings and parents. I'm interested in the things that helped shape his personality. I am also curious as to why the human he was associated with named him Goliath? Sure he's big and strong like the philistine giant, but mentally he seems very gentle and so it seems kind of funny.

Thanks everyone!
K. Wable - [kiyowable@gmail.com]
Jalepena
posted @ Tue, Jun 19, 2012 2:44:16 pm EDT from 69.122.79.221

My friend purchased the Alien Anthology on blu-ray recently and he let me borrow "Alien". It's been a LONG time since I've watched, like at least 20 years, and it blew me away. It was fantastic.

@J29 I'd be in as long as it was on Netflix streaming. I don't care about the rating, and I would suggest that that not be a stipulation.
Anthony Tini
posted @ Tue, Jun 19, 2012 2:17:16 pm EDT from 159.240.11.245

<<1) Keep it PG or thereabouts. (Note, this does not mean anything with a PG rating is automatically a good idea. Prior to the mid-80s there was no PG-13 and TV ratings are judged differently. So just be aware and use your best judgment.)>>

*Looks at his movie collection*

The Godfather, Goodfellas, Pulp Fiction, Inglourious Basterds, Alien, Taxi Driver, Gangs of New York, True Romance, Titus, Chinatown, Reservoir Dogs.... and more of that ilk.

Yeah, you don't want me picking the movies.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
"Brave words for a man who hides his face behind a hood." - Goliath, "The Journey."
posted @ Tue, Jun 19, 2012 1:38:32 pm EDT from 24.185.74.60

So, faced with the prospect of an indeterminate number of weeks without new Young Justice eps helmed with Greg's masterful touch, I had an idea I wanted to share with you lovely folks. How would you feel about a comment room tv/movie club?

Basically people would suggest stuff and we'd watch every week, each at our own leisure, and, as the room implies, "comment." I only have a few suggested guidelines:

1) Keep it PG or thereabouts. (Note, this does not mean anything with a PG rating is automatically a good idea. Prior to the mid-80s there was no PG-13 and TV ratings are judged differently. So just be aware and use your best judgment.)

2) Maybe try for something that relates back to Greg's stuff in some way in terms or characters or theme. Since that's why we're here.

3) It would help to pick things that are available on Netflix or free (legal) streaming on Hulu or other sites so that more people would be able to join in.

4) TV suggestions could be allowed but with a maximum length of about thirteen episodes. A "half-season" pretty much. Just so we don't go more than six weeks or so with the same show.

So what do you guys think?

If people are interested I do have a show in mind to begin with, but I wanted to see whether people liked the idea at all before getting into specific shows.
J29
"Love makes you do the wacky."
posted @ Tue, Jun 19, 2012 11:50:18 am EDT from 184.12.118.247

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Comments for the week ending June 24, 2012

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