Comment Room Archive : Gargoyles : Station Eight

Yeah, when Demona was first casting the spell, you see Owen close his eyes. Then Demona does that other spell on Owen and puts him into some sort of trance. She trains the monitor right in front of him but he doesn't turn to stone. Why? Maybe because he is in a trance and thus unconscious and is incapable of hearing and seeing the spell even though his eyes and ears are wide open. Maybe it was only when he came out of the trance did he first witness the full stone spell consciously. And by that time it was morning. He didn't manage to get free til shortly before sunset and by that time it was too late.
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Mr. Xanatos, we have a problem. Demona lied to us; the spell she cast was not what she said it was!" - Owen Burnett, "City of Stone" Part One
posted @ Sun, Aug 19, 2012 11:50:32 pm EDT from 99.92.109.252

Hello everyone,

I haven't been watching the reruns of YJ or the Green Lantern show, (filled my TiVO with cartoons that are actually meant for my almost 4 year old as opposed to ones plausibly claiming to be...well, excepting Jane & the Dragon and the occasional Phineous & Ferb). When the show reruns, do they run the same DC Nation shorts or have I missed a ton of new ones?
Laura 'ad astra' Sack
posted @ Sun, Aug 19, 2012 11:12:37 pm EDT from 98.14.181.32

Hi Greg!
You've probably been told this before but i just wanted to say that finding out that the show was taking Chalant out and hinting Dick and Babs was like punching my fragile fangirl heart :P anyway i really hope i'm wrong and Chalant still lives :D
and yes i know you can't answer this because it would be giving away spoilers but thanks to read my opinion anyway :) i'll just be a good YJ fan and wait for the new episode :D
andy-ninjagirl - [andy196@hotmail.com]
I love my ninja boyfriend from a rival ninja clan x)
posted @ Sun, Aug 19, 2012 9:57:05 pm EDT from 187.184.146.49

My bad, Greg B. I always forget to check whether anyone's posted anything after I'm finished typing out something long. I guess that's the explanation for Owen then, he didn't see the spell until she tied him up and forced him to watch.

Phoenix> Very nice! I'm very envious!
Arlo
Gargoyles need not apply.
posted @ Sun, Aug 19, 2012 9:01:35 pm EDT from 173.54.75.76

Re Owen turning to stone:

If I'm not mistaken, we do see Owen immediately after the spell is cast. Demona casts the spell to immobilize him just as she's completing reciting the spell that turns everyone to stone. In the seconds which follow, a great wind pushes Owen across the room. and once he's immobilized, Demona ties him up in the chair. All the times we see her recite the spell on television afterwards seem to be a repetition of those moments when he was recording her. So as far as I can tell, we can safely say that Owen did not turn to stone immediately after watching the spell.

I think this situation is ambiguous enough the we can't really say for certain what was going on. Maybe Owen didn't see all of the spell because during the last part of it, the wind was pushing him so forcefully, his face wasn't pointed at Demona, and so it didn't kick in until after she tied him to the chair and put the viewscreen in his face, forcing him to watch it all the way through.

Recall also that she used a spell to immobilize him (Greg even jokes that he cheated there on the commentary, because he had her cast two different spells at once). Maybe that spell completely immobilized every fiber of his being so that even the transition to stone wouldn't take place until the immobility spell wore off. Maybe it immobilized him so much that he couldn't see or hear, so that the to-stone spell wouldn't affect him, yet when the immobility wore off, he would have been unable to avoid seeing the to-stone spell cast, and it took effect in that very instant. Maybe Owen is actually unaffected by the to-stone spell since he's Puck, but he just goes through the motions of turning to stone while there are other people around (including Xanatos) in order to stay perfectly true to his deal. Maybe the immobility spell actually was designed to target Oberon's Children, and so, immobilized, he couldn't turn himself to stone until after it wore off.

Re How Demona Would Have Stayed Alive Prior to the Invention of Television if she'd Been Telling the Truth, Which she Wasn't:

Again, we don't know the details of the spell. Of course, it isn't really true, but we don't know how she told Xanatos it worked. Since we know she was lying, she probably would have told him something that made some amount of sense. I always figured the spell would have frozen people for a minute after reading, and it's that minute of life that would have been transferred to Demona. In her years living in isolation, she probably would have jumped in front of humans in isolated regions, read the spell, and run off while they were still frozen, then found other humans to do it on, etc. Maybe she would have found a way to participate in a large play in a huge amphitheater under the pretense that she was a human actor dressed as a gargoyle for the performance, and cast the spell to a huge audience. And so on.

What she told Xanatos wasn't so entirely inconceivable. I think the understanding was that before television, she'd had to use the spell a lot more frequently and it was a lot more troublesome for her, so they were supposedly teaming up now because they both had something the other needed (her spell and Xanatos' access to technology).
Arlo
Gargoyles need not apply.
posted @ Sun, Aug 19, 2012 8:56:39 pm EDT from 173.54.75.76

Okay, from the CITY OF STONE production memo.

........... yeah, it was a goof. The memo even states that Elisa slept through the day's broadcast. I suppose the best explanation at this point is Elisa was watching Casablanca on cable, and it took longer for the tech to override cable, but broadcast was taken right away.

1995
VIII. Return to Present as Demona lands at Packmedia studio- Night.
A. XANATOS & OWEN are there.
1. All is ready. X had necessary equipment brought in & set up.
a. It can over-ride every broadcast channel in Manhattan.
i. Cable too.
B. She has the last stolen page from the Grimorum.
1. With it, she claims, she can steal time from other people.
a. This, she claims, is how she has remained immortal.
i. Stealing a little time at a time on a small scale.
C. By combining spell with broadcast technology...
1. They can steal one minute from the lives of everyone who watches broadcast.
2. She & X will share stolen time.
3. Given the number of people they'll reach, this'll keep them
young for a long while.
4. Spell will broadcast through the day
a. Culminate after sunset tomorrow.
i. Xanatos should return then.
D. Xan likes idea, but he's not without his suspicions.
1. Tells Owen to keep an eye on her.
2. Warns him not to simultaneously look AND listen to spellcast.
a. Xanatos leaves.
E. Demona videotapes spell.
1. Incantations; gestures; magical light show.
2. Owen listens but does not look.
a. He knows Latin and knows spell isn't what she claimed.
i. Don't tell audience what it is yet.
3. Owen puts up a good fight, but she takes him out.
a. She ties him up. Tapes his eyes open in front of monitor.
4. Puts tape in machine. Sets broadcast override. And leaves.
IX. Elisa's Apartment - Afternoon.
A. Elisa gets out of the shower and turns on t.v.
1. Remember, Elisa works the Nightwatch
a. She has slept thru the day's broadcast.
b. CAGNEY's present but ignores t.v.
2. Demona's tape plays spell over and over on t.v.
a. Elisa watches it, switching channels. But it's everywhere.
3. She plans on telling Gargoyles as soon as they wake up.
B. She heads for precinct.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
Here's the problem with most fanfic writers: they seem to think Dominique is a second life. It isn't. Demona spelled it plainly in "High Noon." She's a gargoyle. Dominique is just a tool to help her in her goals. She'll use the form because she changes into a human, whether she likes it or not, but Dominique is not another life for her.
posted @ Sun, Aug 19, 2012 8:23:10 pm EDT from 24.185.74.60

Amanda: Welcome to the CR! Enjoy your stay in the land of insanity. :D

Phoenix: WOW. Just, WOW.

Skadoosh: Maybe, maybe not. But I doubt you'd get anything other than a "SPOILER REQUEST. NO COMMENT." if you asked this to Greg Weisman.
Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
"And she's buying a stairway to Heaven..." - Led Zeppelin
posted @ Sun, Aug 19, 2012 6:17:15 pm EDT from 66.91.223.104

Matt: And I think a few hours before sunset might've been all it needed to affect pretty much everyone. Keep in mind that first of all, a few hours before sunset is prime TV-watching time. That is probably when most people watch television. Secondly, once the odd broadcast started, I imagine that word would've gotten around rather quickly about this strange-looking woman chanting in latin on every station. Even those who might've been working or whatever and not watching TV would've made a point to get to one at least long enough to witness the complete spell. And I imagine that the radio stations were all abuzz about the goings-on. So yeah, I can see it getting to pretty much everyone by sundown on the 10th, even if it was only a couple hours.

That's the thing: this isn't quite true, at least not if the story takes place in November. Prime time is commonly considered to span the time frame from 8:00 to 11:00. Sundown in November, however, occurs a bit before six in the first week and a bit before five, once Daylights Savings Time ends in the second week of the month. The period when the spell is activated isn't when most people are watching TV-it's when nine-to-fivers are commuting home from work.

Still, I'm not going to fault the writers for not coordinating the exact timing of this kind of thing (not back then, anyway-I would totally cry foul if something like this were happening in, say, Young Justice, since Weisman has gotten so much more precise when it comes to this type of thing). I'm less willing to be magnanimous regarding the idea of a couple of hours being sufficient in the way you describe. Maybe in 2010, with Twitter and whatnot to spread the news around, but not in 1995. But then, I suspect that this is one of those things where mileage will have to vary.

As for Owen, a provision for a day having to pass before the spell takes effect was my first thought too, the one problem being that it's the sort of thing that feels inconsistent given the rules of magic as established; if the language of spells is made to be literally precise, then extra provisos like that shouldn't really be possible unless it were in the language of the spell, and we know that it isn't. However, the alternative would be that he turned to stone just after the show turned away from him, which feels like cheating. In any case, yes, thank you (and everybody else who responded) for your help.
DoKnowButchie (or Ian, or whatever it is I use here)
posted @ Sun, Aug 19, 2012 4:17:56 pm EDT from 199.102.192.206

In the episode where all the Young Justice members had amnesia due to Psimon, Artemis seemed very non-chalant about having to possibly kill Wally. Do you think Lawrence ever made her kill, before?
Skadoosh
posted @ Sun, Aug 19, 2012 2:51:34 pm EDT from 68.205.9.174

The show established pretty well (though after the fact) that Xanatos's fear of his own mortality is one of very few 'weaknesses' in "The Price." Dying clearly terrifies him. In those circumstances I could believe that he would be willing to buy what Demona's selling, despite the fact that ordinarily he would know better.
J29
"Love makes you do the wacky."
posted @ Sun, Aug 19, 2012 2:41:54 pm EDT from 184.12.122.193

http://athey.deviantart.com/art/Gargoyles-Phoenix-Gate-Painted-322039127

Alright you guys, there's the finished product! Enjoy! Make sure to read the desc ;-)
Phoenix - [shugotenshi_sama@yahoo.com]
posted @ Sun, Aug 19, 2012 2:19:34 pm EDT from 96.235.24.16

BRACK> To quote Xanatos, "I wanted to believe what she promised." If he wanted to just see what she would do, there were better ways than putting her on the airwaves for at least ten million people.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
Here's the problem with most fanfic writers: they seem to think Dominique is a second life. It isn't. Demona spelled it plainly in "High Noon." She's a gargoyle. Dominique is just a tool to help her in her goals. She'll use the form because she changes into a human, whether she likes it or not, but Dominique is not another life for her.
posted @ Sun, Aug 19, 2012 1:35:05 pm EDT from 24.185.74.60

Xanatos probably didn't believe Demona's spell would do what she said it would. After all, he didn't watch the broadcast and he told Fox not to either. If the spell did what it was supposed to, neither Fox nor X would have really been affected since they were going to get their minute back and then some. Xanatos may have just wanted to see what Demona was really up to see if it had any benefit for himself somehow.
Brack
posted @ Sun, Aug 19, 2012 1:12:30 pm EDT from 98.87.147.108

JURGAN> I'm going to assume that New York City was the test run, and if it worked, Xanatos was prepared to go global with that broadcast.

Yeah, that's the ticket.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
Here's the problem with most fanfic writers: they seem to think Dominique is a second life. It isn't. Demona spelled it plainly in "High Noon." She's a gargoyle. Dominique is just a tool to help her in her goals. She'll use the form because she changes into a human, whether she likes it or not, but Dominique is not another life for her.
posted @ Sun, Aug 19, 2012 11:49:12 am EDT from 24.185.74.60

The bigger problem with City of Stone to me is that Demona's explanation of what her spell did was so ridiculous Xanatos never should have believed it. She claimed that it would steal one minute of life from everyone, which would be "centuries." But if we assume there are ten million people in New York, a minute from each adds up to about nineteen years. What's more, there's no way she could have used it to stay alive for the last thousand years, since before television there's no way she could have cast the spell on millions of people at once. Now, it's all moot, because Demona was lying the whole time, and I know Xanatos didn't trust her, but he still went along with something that was obviously false. You'd think the billionaire could afford a calculator.
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
posted @ Sun, Aug 19, 2012 11:44:53 am EDT from 75.76.235.156

We didn't see Demona leave Packmedia Studios, and keep in mind that by the time of CoS, she was already turning into a human during the day. So I can buy that it took her many hours to get her broadcast out there.

Hell, by the time she cast the spell on Owen, it might have been close to sunrise anyway.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
Here's the problem with most fanfic writers: they seem to think Dominique is a second life. It isn't. Demona spelled it plainly in "High Noon." She's a gargoyle. Dominique is just a tool to help her in her goals. She'll use the form because she changes into a human, whether she likes it or not, but Dominique is not another life for her.
posted @ Sun, Aug 19, 2012 11:32:36 am EDT from 24.185.74.60

Demona told Xanatos that she planned to play the "steal one minute of life" spell all day long. Of course, when she did the other spell instead and incapacitated Owen, she had to do the rest of the work herself, without Owen's assistance. That for me explains why the she wasn't able to interupt the broadcast until much later in the day.

I'm also thinking that either Owen did turn to stone and we didn't see it or that the spell had some unspoken clause that required that the sun must rise and set first or something. I dunno.

As for the darkness when Elisa is running around. I imagine that is attributable to it being a cloudy November evening. : )
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Mr. Xanatos, we have a problem. Demona lied to us; the spell she cast was not what she said it was!" - Owen Burnett, "City of Stone" Part One
posted @ Sun, Aug 19, 2012 11:02:50 am EDT from 99.92.109.252

Hi everyone. New to the room but had some thoughts about City of Stone.

I'm guessing Demona probably recorded the spell shortly before dawn on the 9th. We don't see Owen after he watches the whole spell, so I'm also going to guess that he did turn to stone. I noticed another hole though. When Elisa's tv cuts into the spell it already looks like it's night or at least dusk. Also when she's driving to the police station it definitely is dark out(her headlights are even on). Not sure how that adds up or why her tv cut into the spell as late as it did since Demona said it would play all day.
Amanda
posted @ Sun, Aug 19, 2012 10:28:40 am EDT from 12.94.229.226

The problem with that is that we saw Demona somehow put Owen in a trance and forced him to watch and hear the broadcast.
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"I was so totally wrong..." -Lexington, "Thrill Of The Hunt"
posted @ Sun, Aug 19, 2012 9:55:55 am EDT from 99.92.109.252

I admit that I never thought of this before, however we know that Owen would not have intentionally watched and listened to the broadcast, because even though he didn't know what Demona was planning, he knew he didn't want to be affect. He must have listened, but may not have actually seen the spell until day.
Supermorff
posted @ Sun, Aug 19, 2012 9:36:04 am EDT from 217.42.33.187

Greg may have made a small mistake in the timeline by saying that Elisa and Fox and everyone watched the spell on the 9th. It seems to me that they wouldn't have had the opportunity to watch it til the 10th.
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"I was so totally wrong..." -Lexington, "Thrill Of The Hunt"
posted @ Sun, Aug 19, 2012 8:06:23 am EDT from 99.92.109.252

Ian> I'll admit, I've read your post a couple times and started to write a response before I even realized your point. Demona was in gargoyle form so we know it must've been nighttime and yet Owen didn't turn to stone immediatly upon being forced to watch/hear the spell.

I can't believe I never thought of this before. I mean for everyone else in the city, we can assume the broadcast didn't start until sometime during the day... but for Owen, it was clearly nighttime.

A look at the timeline helps here:

November 9th. Demona and Xanatos initiate their plan to secure immortality by stealing a minute of life from everyone who watches their hijacked broadcast. However, Demona was fooling Xanatos, and actually succeeds in using the broadcast to turn everyone who watches into stone at night. Owen, Fox, Elisa and most of the humans in Manhattan see the broadcast. Xanatos does not watch.

November 10th. Macbeth sees enough of the broadcast to realize what Demona is up to. Elisa goes to the Clock Tower to wait for the gargoyles to awaken. At sundown, Owen, Fox and Elisa (as well as most of the humans in Manhattan) turn to stone. The gargoyles awaken at sundown and discover Elisa and the other stone humans. (Thailog also awakens at sundown. With no one at the castle to warn him, he watches Demona's spell on television and immediately turns to stone. He will remain stone in the television room, 24 hours a day until the spell is broken. But he has had his first exposure to Demona.) The gargoyles stop at Robbins' house. Being blind, he was unaffected by Demona's spell. They begin to search the city for Demona, who's on a killing spree, destroying stone humans in the streets. Separately, Macbeth and Xanatos also seek Demona.

From what I can gather without timestamps, Demona recorded the spell on the night of November 9th. If I remember correctly, she said they would broadcast throughout the day (meaning the 10th) and told Xanatos to return at sundown.

If what happened to Thailog was any indication, then yeah Owen should've turned to stone right away. But maybe the spell needed a solar day to pass first or something. As for Elisa and Fox and pretty much all the other humans in New York, they didn't have the spell cast on them until the daylight hours of the 10th, so it didn't have a chance to go into effect until sunset of the 10th. Does that make sense? Demona wanted Xanatos at PackMedia Studios at sundown on the 10th, presumably so he would turn to stone there and be an easy target for Demona. She probably expected to get to the Studio to discover both Owen and Xanatos as statues there.

I think that the spell did broadcast simultaneously on every TV. Demona, without Owen or anyone else's help, probably required until the afternoon of the 10th to get the spell ready to broadcast. And I think a few hours before sunset might've been all it needed to affect pretty much everyone. Keep in mind that first of all, a few hours before sunset is prime TV-watching time. That is probably when most people watch television. Secondly, once the odd broadcast started, I imagine that word would've gotten around rather quickly about this strange-looking woman chanting in latin on every station. Even those who might've been working or whatever and not watching TV would've made a point to get to one at least long enough to witness the complete spell. And I imagine that the radio stations were all abuzz about the goings-on. So yeah, I can see it getting to pretty much everyone by sundown on the 10th, even if it was only a couple hours.

Does that help?
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"I was so totally wrong..." -Lexington, "Thrill Of The Hunt"
posted @ Sun, Aug 19, 2012 8:00:01 am EDT from 99.92.109.252

So I was thinking about the present-day sequence of events in "City of Stone" in preparation for an episode review, and it struck me that it doesn't really make much sense, as presented in the episode*. Maybe this has been discussed before, so bear with me.

So Demona records her spell, while Owen assists. It is night, as evidenced by the fact that Demona is in gargoyle form. How is Owen not immediately turned to stone, aside from "the writers didn't want to spoil the spell's effects until the cliffhanger"? Or is the answer to this "how do you know he didn't?"

More importantly, the episode leads the viewer (or at least, it led me) to believe that Demona's broadcast a) played throughout most of the day and b) interrupted every TV simultaneously, in the way super-villain broadcasts tend to do. Except that while either can be true, both can't, since we're shown the moment where it interrupts normal operations in Elisa's TV, and that occurs in the evening shortly before sunset, several hours after the spell was recorded.

Now, option a) needs to be true, in order for the spell to work in the manner implied in part 3 (i.e.: it turned 99% of the city to stone in a way that allowed almost no one to actually realize that that was what actually happened). However, if b) is true, that means that the recording was only on for an hour or two at most before its effects were felt, which means that there'd be plenty of people who'd be unaffected by it by the time other people start getting stoned. Does that mean that we should conclude, instead, that the broadcast interrupted normal programming in staggered waves, with the area around Elisa's apartment being among the last to be affected?

----
* For reasons different from the ones that always bug me about it, that is.
DoKnowButchie (or Ian, or whatever it is I use here)
posted @ Sun, Aug 19, 2012 3:05:57 am EDT from 199.102.192.206

Adam> I have a feeling that the English clan has a lot of "old money". They probably had human allies long ago who helped them establish Knights Spur and Into the Mystic. They may even own other real estate that they rent out. It is possible the clan actually out lived their human allies which led to their disconnect from the human race.
They may have had an issue with food and living space at one point which led to their limiting of eggs laid. A chilling thought is if their lack of Beast is connected to a previous over population.
Brack
posted @ Sat, Aug 18, 2012 5:28:30 pm EDT from 98.240.99.242

Adam> I found it while clicking on the little Phoenix Gate above. It sends you to random Gargoyles websites. Just in case you didn't know, but I'm pretty sure most people here already knew it.^^
Comet
I'm shipping off...to find my wooden leg!
posted @ Sat, Aug 18, 2012 11:29:39 am EDT from 80.187.96.1

Comet- That's a cool site. I really like the picture of Xanatos looking at the Castle Wyvern landscape.
Adam - [carl006_1999@yahoo.com]
posted @ Sat, Aug 18, 2012 9:31:43 am EDT from 24.118.35.68

http://fuckyeahgargoyles.tumblr.com/
I just found this site and realized how cool it is... so much random inspiring stuff... and the best part is that it features stuff from the comics too, so it is really up-do-date.. Great!
Comet
I'm shipping off...to find my wooden leg!
posted @ Sat, Aug 18, 2012 8:41:12 am EDT from 80.187.97.9

PRgirl1294: As the post you were referring to notes, "for future reference, [Greg Weisman does] NOT frequent this comment room, and this is not an appropriate place to leave a message for [him]."

Furthermore, Greg W. has clarified previously that the only kinds of questions he will answer in the Comment Room are ones about AskGreg itself (like the one you linked to). Because your question is about "Young Justice," he will not answer it here. That wouldn't be fair to other questioners waiting in the queue.

As such, if you wish to ask that follow-up question to Greg W., I'm afraid you'll have to wait until the queue reopens.
Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
"And she's buying a stairway to Heaven..." - Led Zeppelin
posted @ Sat, Aug 18, 2012 3:29:28 am EDT from 66.91.223.104

Sorry, I know that he doesn't usually answer questions here, but the "Ask Greg" queue isn't open and I saw him reply to somebody on here: http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/comment/archive/index.php?archive_date=2012-07-29, so I thought that I'd leave something for him to see and clarify for both of us.
PRgirl1294
posted @ Sat, Aug 18, 2012 1:08:33 am EDT from 99.140.223.73

I have been thinking a lot about how the London clan survives. I assume that all the land and home they own at Knight's Spur and the shop Into the Mystic are all paid for. So the only expenses on those places would be taxes, any utilities need, and any human employies (if any) to pay. After that, I can't think of much else the clan needs to spend money on other than food. Given the size of the clan, even if they own several hundred acres around Knight's Spur, hunting is probably not an option. A clan that size would quickley eat up all the edible animals in the area. Although Greg has yet to say if they have human allies, they could have a large farm on their land that produces food for the clan, tended by humans. But I think that is unlikely. So they probably buy most of the food for the clan. Into the Mystic must to well to feed the clan, as I would not want to foot that bill.
Adam - [carl006_1999@yahoo.com]
posted @ Fri, Aug 17, 2012 8:54:30 am EDT from 170.112.1.251

Arlo> LOL! Win. XD

I could never do her with justice, though. (Other things, maybe, but not justice ;)
Shaiya - [steelclaw@gmx.com]
"For without the nerve to chance the storm, we can never sail into the sun"
posted @ Fri, Aug 17, 2012 7:52:08 am EDT from 71.181.52.249

MATT> I think Brack is referring to how Queen Bee's powers can control "most men and some women."
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
Here's the problem with most fanfic writers: they seem to think Dominique is a second life. It isn't. Demona spelled it plainly in "High Noon." She's a gargoyle. Dominique is just a tool to help her in her goals. She'll use the form because she changes into a human, whether she likes it or not, but Dominique is not another life for her.
posted @ Thu, Aug 16, 2012 11:30:16 pm EDT from 24.185.74.60

Young Justice is bisexual?
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"I was so totally wrong..." -Lexington, "Thrill Of The Hunt"
posted @ Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:46:32 pm EDT from 99.92.109.252

Greg B&Matt> thanks for your input, I appreciate it. I just wasn't sure if, like Young Justice, Demona could go either way.
Brack
posted @ Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:06:19 pm EDT from 67.240.242.24

Today I saw 2 copies of season 1 and one copy of season two featured prominently at Wal Mart here in Edmonton. Of course, having multiple copies already... and saving for a house, I couln't buy any more copies (But I would have if I could), but it was awesome to see them there. :D
Battle Beast - [Canada]
I did it! I watched all 485 Best picture nominees in 365 days!
posted @ Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:14:33 pm EDT from 173.181.73.94

Thanks for taking away my fantasy of Demona and Desdemona experimenting in "Dark Ages". Way to go.

When we where talking about Alexander turning 16 last month, it got me thinking as to how old some of the other characters are. Hacker would be 60, Xanatos would be 57, Fox and Robyn would be 46, Elisa, Fang, Jackal and Hyena would be 44. Even Terry Chung, the youngest character we have seen, would be 28. Gets we wishing to see all that would happen since the end of CB2 and now.
Adam - [carl006_1999@yahoo.com]
posted @ Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:22:46 pm EDT from 170.112.1.251

I call Disney once a month now, at this point I have their number programmed into my cell phone.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
Here's the problem with most fanfic writers: they seem to think Dominique is a second life. It isn't. Demona spelled it plainly in "High Noon." She's a gargoyle. Dominique is just a tool to help her in her goals. She'll use the form because she changes into a human, whether she likes it or not, but Dominique is not another life for her.
posted @ Thu, Aug 16, 2012 3:43:03 pm EDT from 24.185.74.60

Shaiya> lol ;) Maybe if you agree to play her role when we turn it into a radio play.

So I e-mailed Disney again and got the standard "tentative" plans message. I feel like we should all e-mail them every few weeks to show our interest.
Arlo
Gargoyles need not apply.
posted @ Thu, Aug 16, 2012 3:35:16 pm EDT from 173.54.75.76

Harlan> IIRC, Thanagarians also have artificial wings in the comics, but in the JL/JLU cartoon they were written as a natural feature of the race instead. Young Justice could go either way.
Pterobat - [incisivis@gmail.com]
posted @ Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:23:29 am EDT from 174.3.224.115

Arlo> Oh, come on! Don't tease us. Now you HAVE to write it! lol ;)
Shaiya - [steelclaw@gmx.com]
"For without the nerve to chance the storm, we can never sail into the sun"
posted @ Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:07:18 am EDT from 71.181.52.249

@GregXB - if I had any video skillz, I would have dubbed the audio over a clip of "Dominique" abusing her Nightstone employee ;)
FTBM2010
posted @ Wed, Aug 15, 2012 10:41:08 pm EDT from 68.171.109.144

Anonymous> You mean "here". If you're going to insult someone's intelligence, have a grasp of the English language.

PRGirl>I would imagine that the wings are actual parts of their body, being they're Thanagarians.
Harlan Phoenix
posted @ Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:36:04 pm EDT from 76.2.70.200

FTBM2010> You're my new favorite person for posting that. YES! EXACTLY!
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
Here's the problem with most fanfic writers: they seem to think Dominique is a second life. It isn't. Demona spelled it plainly in "High Noon." She's a gargoyle. Dominique is just a tool to help her in her goals. She'll use the form because she changes into a human, whether she likes it or not, but Dominique is not another life for her.
posted @ Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:24:25 pm EDT from 24.185.74.60

bitch,you retarded? gw doesnt reply answers hear.... facepaml
Anonymous
posted @ Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:13:26 pm EDT from 208.77.23.4

Just wanted to write something to Greg Weisman. Thank you for getting back to your "Ask Greg" questions this week and I want to clarify something for both of us. In this response you made: http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=15197, J asked you if on Earth-16, Hawkman's wings were real and you asked him if he meant as opposed to an illusion. I think he actually meant to ask you if they were a real part of his body or if they were attached to him by a harness like with Carter Hall. In that case, what would you say to that?
PRgirl1294
posted @ Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:08:43 pm EDT from 99.140.223.73

I'll just leave this here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7swPQPmwSTQ&t=1m40s
FTBM2010
posted @ Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:05:43 pm EDT from 68.171.109.163

Damn, and here I was already writing a fanfic of her using the Phoenix Gate to go back in time and get it on with Elisa once she'd reformed in 2198.
Arlo
Gargoyles need not apply.
posted @ Wed, Aug 15, 2012 4:52:30 pm EDT from 173.54.75.76

Yeah, Demona is very, very, very hetero. A close friend in the fandom and I were discussing if any other characters we've met could be gay or bi besides Lexington and we both agreed she's completely hetero (and our gaydar is never wrong. LOL). Angela too.

Sorry slash fic writers. ;)
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
Here's the problem with most fanfic writers: they seem to think Dominique is a second life. It isn't. Demona spelled it plainly in "High Noon." She's a gargoyle. Dominique is just a tool to help her in her goals. She'll use the form because she changes into a human, whether she likes it or not, but Dominique is not another life for her.
posted @ Wed, Aug 15, 2012 3:25:30 pm EDT from 24.185.74.60

Despite what a lot of fanfiction and fanart says, I'm pretty confident that Demona is pretty much exclusively heterosexual. We've seen no reason to suspect she'd ever be interested in another female. And just because you have a couple relationships with one gender that end badly doesn't mean you try (or even contemplate) a relationship with the other gender.

If we had some evidence that Demona was more in that gray area, we could speculate, but we have none.

I think of Demona's next two loves either both will be gargoyles or one will be a gargoyle and one a human, but I'm very confident that both will be male.
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"I was so totally wrong..." -Lexington, "Thrill Of The Hunt"
posted @ Wed, Aug 15, 2012 2:52:33 pm EDT from 99.92.109.252

I have a question and I don't mean this in a "fanfic fantasy fetish" kind of way. But could Demona's next love be a female? She's been with two mates(more than most gargoyles), and she feels betrayed by both of them. Could this have jaded her pov of male gargs enough that she would consider a relationship with a female gargoyle? Or would this be out of character for her? I hope I've explained my question enough because I wasn't really sure how I should phrase it.
Brack
posted @ Wed, Aug 15, 2012 1:46:43 pm EDT from 174.226.64.103

Harlan> [SPOILER] Why indeed? (PRETTY sure that's a plot point...The team doing the Formspring stuff is usually on top of things like this...) [/SPOILER]
Chip - [Sir_Griff723@yahoo.com]
The premise of your question is flawed. You were never human. But you WERE heroes.~~Red Tornado
posted @ Wed, Aug 15, 2012 11:16:55 am EDT from 24.217.38.192

Chip>[SPOILER] Alright, thanks for clearing that up.

...though, why would Thailog not program Cordelia? [/SPOILER]
Harlan Phoenix
posted @ Wed, Aug 15, 2012 12:58:13 am EDT from 76.2.65.204

Adam> Jade and Sapphire are generally rare and valuable stones, and Turquoise and ESPECIALLY Obsidian are important stones in Mayan Culture.
Chip - [Sir_Griff723@yahoo.com]
The premise of your question is flawed. You were never human. But you WERE heroes.~~Red Tornado
posted @ Tue, Aug 14, 2012 10:32:59 pm EDT from 24.217.38.192

@GregXB - I hadn't thought of the Illuminati. My alt. theory was maybe Elisa or Matt found it and destroyed or hid it (to protect the Clan JIC) but I can def. see the Illuminati getting their hands on it if it wasn't destroyed. If so, wonder how long they would sit on it...

@Adam - good question - I would tend to think the pendants would go to regular gargs, unless for special circumstances, just because of their differing natures. I wonder how many beasts the Guaremalan clan had though? Gargbeasts seem to get killed off or what have you more readily than the "regulars" for some reason.
FTBM2010
posted @ Tue, Aug 14, 2012 10:17:59 pm EDT from 174.34.133.219

I don't know if this question has ever been posted before, but I thought of it as while I am watching "The Green" just now. Has an gargoyle beast ever been apointed as one of the pendent wearers? Also, does anyone know if the stones used for the pendents have a special meaning for the location?
Adam - [carl006_1999@yahoo.com]
posted @ Tue, Aug 14, 2012 10:12:01 pm EDT from 24.118.35.68

Harlan> [SPOILER] Because it's NEVER that simple, that's why. Cordelia was created by Thailog but never programmed. When Demona fought Thailog for Nightstone Unlimited and took over the company, she found the tank and ordered Sevarius to destroy it. But after Angela refused to join Demona's cause AGAIN, she changed her mind and ordered Sevarius to spare and program the clone to be the daughter that Angela wouldn't be. Also, the Olympian Gargoyle was already mated to her when she did all that. [/SPOILER]
Chip - [Sir_Griff723@yahoo.com]
The premise of your question is flawed. You were never human. But you WERE heroes.~~Red Tornado
posted @ Tue, Aug 14, 2012 9:13:59 pm EDT from 24.217.38.192

Chip>[SPOILER] If there's a clone of Angela as a presumably perfect daughter, why didn't Demona just clone a perfect mate too? [/SPOILER]
Harlan Phoenix
posted @ Tue, Aug 14, 2012 8:56:02 pm EDT from 76.2.65.204

Adam> Well, they had the same idea [SPOILER] Demona has mated herself to a young Olympian Gargoyle, who is a bit insecure. So insecure that after seeing Demona testing Globulin Green on a Thailog Shock trooper, and with some prodding by Cordelia (a clone of Angela) and the Weird Sisters, He murdered Mayor Waters in cold blood. [/SPOILER]
Chip - [Sir_Griff723@yahoo.com]
The premise of your question is flawed. You were never human. But you WERE heroes.~~Red Tornado
posted @ Tue, Aug 14, 2012 8:24:36 pm EDT from 24.217.38.192

FTBM2010> I would assume it was destroyed in the crash. Or if it was found, the Illuminati have it. Because if it's not either of these possibilities, it would have made the news.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
Here's the problem with most fanfic writers: they seem to think Dominique is a second life. It isn't. Demona spelled it plainly in "High Noon." She's a gargoyle. Dominique is just a tool to help her in her goals. She'll use the form because she changes into a human, whether she likes it or not, but Dominique is not another life for her.
posted @ Tue, Aug 14, 2012 8:23:17 pm EDT from 24.185.74.60

Random question, didn't see it in the archives - does anyone know what happened to the disk Demona put her Hunter's Moon plan on? Was it destroyed when the Hunters' airship crashed or is it still floating around someplace?
FTBM2010
posted @ Tue, Aug 14, 2012 8:05:38 pm EDT from 174.34.133.219

Sorry for double posting, but I would love to have a T-Shirt with the "entire cast".... the only problem would be that it would look worse than a scene from a "were is Waldo" book xD
Comet
I'm shipping off...to find my wooden leg!
posted @ Tue, Aug 14, 2012 7:20:56 pm EDT from 80.187.96.63

lol, that's almost telepathy. I was searching for Gargoyles t-shirts only a few hours ago!
Comet
I'm shipping off...to find my wooden leg!
posted @ Tue, Aug 14, 2012 7:18:07 pm EDT from 80.187.96.63

The return of Hot Topic! Found out about these through a friend and a mention about it on Tumblr...

http://www.hottopic.com/hottopic/PopCulture/EverythingElse/ComicsAnimeCartoons//Disney+Gargoyles+Girls+T-Shirt-173401.jsp

http://www.hottopic.com/hottopic/PopCulture/EverythingElse/ComicsAnimeCartoons//Disney+Gargoyles+Dolman+Top-166815.jsp

...the only issue is it claims it's the entire cast. Yeah, right.
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!
posted @ Tue, Aug 14, 2012 6:39:54 pm EDT from 174.101.230.22

Thank you Greg, very helpful.
Brack
posted @ Tue, Aug 14, 2012 6:20:58 pm EDT from 174.252.60.237

Thank you Greg, very helpful.
Brack
posted @ Tue, Aug 14, 2012 6:19:19 pm EDT from 174.252.60.237

BRACK> http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=1724

I don't think rogue gargoyles were common at all. Especially considering how rare gargoyles in general are.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
Here's the problem with most fanfic writers: they seem to think Dominique is a second life. It isn't. Demona spelled it plainly in "High Noon." She's a gargoyle. Dominique is just a tool to help her in her goals. She'll use the form because she changes into a human, whether she likes it or not, but Dominique is not another life for her.
posted @ Tue, Aug 14, 2012 5:30:00 pm EDT from 24.185.74.60

How many clans has Demona had contact with? During the 1000 year sleep she must have sought out others. Chances are she could have found one or at least one other rogue gargoyle.
Brack
posted @ Tue, Aug 14, 2012 5:17:03 pm EDT from 174.252.60.237

Chip- Not really. I have only visited a couple of times.

The only reason I say Demona would hook up with someone from the New Olympian clan is I don't see her mating with someone from one of the clans we have seen. Of the other ones, New Olympian is, I think, the easiest to guess how they would react to humans. We know a little about that clans history, how they came together with the Olympians to escape human percecution. We know next to nothing of the other clans history.
Adam - [carl006_1999@yahoo.com]
posted @ Tue, Aug 14, 2012 2:46:26 pm EDT from 170.112.1.251

Demona and Macbeth> If this is Greg W's intention, I'd be really curious to see how it would play out in an official storyline, since it would need some deft skill to be convincing.

I don't believe, however, that their coming together would end with them dying soon afterwards. That would be incredibly cheap and lazy, and I think Greg would be a better writer than that, and explore what happens to the characters afterwards, and how they deal with it. That would be a much stronger and more interesting story than their simply dying after all that buildup.

I am SO glad, however, that Greg W decided that Angela wouldn't be the source of Demona's redemption, that would be too trite, again after all that's been said about Demona, and all that Demona has done.

Nor would getting laid turn Demona into a nice person overnight. That would just be ridiculous.
Pterobat - [incisivis@gmail.com]
posted @ Tue, Aug 14, 2012 1:48:03 pm EDT from 174.3.224.115

Adam> You're not the first to think so...Have you been following the Formspring stuff at all?
Chip - [Sir_Griff723@yahoo.com]
The premise of your question is flawed. You were never human. But you WERE heroes.~~Red Tornado
posted @ Tue, Aug 14, 2012 1:22:46 pm EDT from 24.217.38.192

Greg B- I had forgotten about "Reckoning".

If Macbeth is indead Demona's second great love in the future, it will be interesting to see where the first one is from. My guess is a gargoyle from the New Olypmian clan. Based on the attitude of toward humans by the New Olympians, my guess is that most of the gargoyles of that clan would share those sentiments. I think Demona would find that highly attactive.
Adam - [carl006_1999@yahoo.com]
posted @ Tue, Aug 14, 2012 1:04:27 pm EDT from 170.112.1.251

BRACK> <<especially since I have a feeling that at least one of Angela's children will help found it.>>

Quit thinking like a human. ;)

Besides, we've had no signs at all that Artus, Gwenyvere, or Lancelot leave the Manhattan Clan.

And, it's been pretty clear that when 2198 starts, Demona is still The Enemy before the Space-Spawn Invasion.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
Here's the problem with most fanfic writers: they seem to think Dominique is a second life. It isn't. Demona spelled it plainly in "High Noon." She's a gargoyle. Dominique is just a tool to help her in her goals. She'll use the form because she changes into a human, whether she likes it or not, but Dominique is not another life for her.
posted @ Tue, Aug 14, 2012 1:00:50 pm EDT from 24.185.74.60

I wrote my one and only piece of fanfic years ago along those lines. i think Greg B read it, but I never posted it anywhere.

The premise was that somehow Demona had been released from the Weird Sisters spell, and joined the Notre Dame Clan to live out her remaining years. My story takes place on the last night of her life. She has never been a leader in the clan, but is respected as a knowledgable clan elder, though I never make it clear just how much her clan-mates know. The hatchlings, at least, don't know of her past at all. They call her "storyteller". One young female gargoyle grows fond of Demona and calls her "angel". Something i really liked about the story was that none of the gargoyles in it used real names. Even Demona was never called by that name and, in my mind, had given it up years before as part of her redemption. I just really liked the idea that Demona would come full circle. That she would end her days as she started them. No name except some call her "angel". No desire for power or leadership. Just a loyal clan member.

And after all the centuries and violence and battles, I like that she dies a simple death of old age shortly before sunrise and is given a wind ceremony soon afterwards.
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"I was so totally wrong..." -Lexington, "Thrill Of The Hunt"
posted @ Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:44:57 pm EDT from 99.92.109.252

I'm not saying that Demona would ever join Wyvern, or any clan for that matter. But I think she would pay them a visit, either to help or bother, especially since I have a feeling that at least one of Angela's children will help found it.
Also speaking as a married man with two young children, if my wife goes more then a month without getting laid she does start to go batshit crazy. However, if we take a weekend getaway and have "before we had kids sex", yes she is happier, but those same old stresses are still able to bring her claws out. So I'm not saying that all she needs is a good shagging to keep her from wanting to committ genocide, but she may decide not to at least postpone it. Thailog- "Demona hunny, let's not kill humanity today, Nightstone is doing really good right now."
Brack
posted @ Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:37:39 pm EDT from 174.252.60.237

I won't lie, it is an interesting idea. But I wouldn't want it to be canon. It would make an interesting fic.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
Here's the problem with most fanfic writers: they seem to think Dominique is a second life. It isn't. Demona spelled it plainly in "High Noon." She's a gargoyle. Dominique is just a tool to help her in her goals. She'll use the form because she changes into a human, whether she likes it or not, but Dominique is not another life for her.
posted @ Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:15:57 pm EDT from 24.185.74.60

Anonymous: I like your creative ideas for that story plot. A few things might need to be tweaked, like Greg says, but a master storyteller would probably be able to find loopholes for those things. :) Very creative ideas.
Shaiya
posted @ Tue, Aug 14, 2012 8:39:32 am EDT from 71.181.52.249

JURGAN> <<Dude, did you really just say Demona would be less violent if she got laid more often? Lovely. Because, after all, a woman who isn't having sex is just one big ball of hormones!>>

LOL!

I think it's safe to say that Demona was getting laid on a regular basis when she was with Thailog, and she was still planning Operation Clean Slate.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
Here's the problem with most fanfic writers: they seem to think Dominique is a second life. It isn't. Demona spelled it plainly in "High Noon." She's a gargoyle. Dominique is just a tool to help her in her goals. She'll use the form because she changes into a human, whether she likes it or not, but Dominique is not another life for her.
posted @ Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:02:41 am EDT from 24.185.74.60

"She will still hate humans but frequent mating will keep her crazyness down."

Dude, did you really just say Demona would be less violent if she got laid more often? Lovely. Because, after all, a woman who isn't having sex is just one big ball of hormones!
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
posted @ Mon, Aug 13, 2012 11:59:05 pm EDT from 75.76.235.156

BRACK> I really disagree with your ideas. I can't see Demona spending much time with the Neo-Wyvern Clan. The irony is that she is the most human of all the gargoyles, I don't see her shunning technology and other useful tools.

I think her next mate will be one she manages to convert to her way of thinking, who'd join her in villainy. The one after that (Macbeth) would be redemption.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
Here's the problem with most fanfic writers: they seem to think Dominique is a second life. It isn't. Demona spelled it plainly in "High Noon." She's a gargoyle. Dominique is just a tool to help her in her goals. She'll use the form because she changes into a human, whether she likes it or not, but Dominique is not another life for her.
posted @ Mon, Aug 13, 2012 11:47:54 pm EDT from 24.185.74.60

@FTBM2010> I remember seeing your comment and thinking that you were referring to the child Goliath and Elisa are supposed to adopt. Makes much more sense to me now.
I have to agree that I don't see Demona spending a long time in confinement. I think that she may just slip away for awhile. Perhaps fall In love with an unintroduced Gargoyle after Goliath sacrifices himself. She may even settle down with the new Wyvern Clan for a while. She will still hate humans but frequent mating will keep her crazyness down. She of coarse will out live him/her, and a century or two later she will finally end up with Macbeth.
However, I think her true redemption will only come about with help from the Weird Sister, especially Phoebe.
Brack
posted @ Mon, Aug 13, 2012 11:43:44 pm EDT from 174.252.60.237

ANONYMOUS> Except Macbeth is still alive in "Gargoyles 2198."
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
Here's the problem with most fanfic writers: they seem to think Dominique is a second life. It isn't. Demona spelled it plainly in "High Noon." She's a gargoyle. Dominique is just a tool to help her in her goals. She'll use the form because she changes into a human, whether she likes it or not, but Dominique is not another life for her.
posted @ Mon, Aug 13, 2012 11:11:49 pm EDT from 24.185.74.60

There's this idea I have concerning the eventual end of Demona and Macbeth. But it may be tricky to try to put it in with the way things are. Picture this: a major event involving everyone in the Garg-verse, yet Demona still tries to eradicate humanity and betray everyone. She fails initially, but as her seemingly last desperate act she lashes out and Macbeth blocks her. Which costs his life, and Demona's as well. They then revert back before they went under the Weird Sisters' spell. And then, get this, they're revived. But now mortal. Mac is now young, and can live the rest of his life as he wishes. Demona's old and gray, and still under Puck's spell! She still becomes human during the day, yet resembles a dried out old hag!

So, how can Demona still be around till 2198? Let's say it involves the Illuminati, particularly Jon Castaway/Canmore, (who's gone from his original Anti-Garg motives-not that he'll completely give that up!-to wanting power and influence, which the Illuminati can give him. Not to mention an extended life!) and of course, The Weird Sisters, who always had their own agenda. (No I don't trust them! Neither should you! Nor even Lord Oberon!)

It would be an interesting array of twists and turns, and could use a lot of reconciling certain canon, probably. But a master of storytelling could possibly pull it off. In theory, anyway.
Anonymous
posted @ Mon, Aug 13, 2012 11:03:46 pm EDT from 173.55.4.27

Oh, forgot.

<<Plus like you I think her second love will most likely pre-date 2198, and I don't think it would be someone she met while locked up. >>

Predate 2198, but I think she would meet her first of the next two great loves during "Gargoyles" at some point. Well before the incident that I wrote.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
Here's the problem with most fanfic writers: they seem to think Dominique is a second life. It isn't. Demona spelled it plainly in "High Noon." She's a gargoyle. Dominique is just a tool to help her in her goals. She'll use the form because she changes into a human, whether she likes it or not, but Dominique is not another life for her.
posted @ Mon, Aug 13, 2012 7:14:14 pm EDT from 24.185.74.60

FTBM2010> Thanks, glad you liked the story.

<< I read that fic, and overall enjoyed it, but I went looking for the epilogue where she escapes the next day or night ;)>>

I wouldn't underestimate what the security Xanatos would keep on her. LOL

ARLO> The dialogue in #6 just annoys me. That and Xanatos actually trying to kill them.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
Here's the problem with most fanfic writers: they seem to think Dominique is a second life. It isn't. Demona spelled it plainly in "High Noon." She's a gargoyle. Dominique is just a tool to help her in her goals. She'll use the form because she changes into a human, whether she likes it or not, but Dominique is not another life for her.
posted @ Mon, Aug 13, 2012 7:12:57 pm EDT from 24.185.74.60

Having finished reading the Marvel comics, I'm starting to see what Greg B. has against them. I thought the ones up to #6 were okay, but starting with The Pack ones, they just got ridiculous. Lex's remorse when he thinks he killed Wolf is worse than Fox's behavior in TGC.
Arlo
Gargoyles need not apply.
posted @ Mon, Aug 13, 2012 7:07:12 pm EDT from 173.54.75.76

@GregXB - as an addendum though, now that you mention it, I do like the imagery of Demona being released in time to join the Resistance, ala Sean Connery in "The Rock", heh.
FTBM2010
posted @ Mon, Aug 13, 2012 7:01:58 pm EDT from 68.171.109.168

BISHANSKY - [Considering that the Weird Sisters are the ones who trap the characters within the play, I would assume they're playing themselves.]

Whoa, I didn't know that! I thought that Greg was still keeping secret who the person/people responsible for that spell were.

[I tend to think John Castaway will play Malcolm.] - I'd thought of that as well, when I was speculating about the cast list today. It'd be appropriate, in light of his ancestry - but Greg Weisman once said that Hudson would probably play the part of Duncan, so that Castaway would have a gargoyle playing his character's father - and be allied with Goliath's character, to make matters worse! (Hudson's casting would be appropriate, in light of the "Lady Macbeth" parallel in "Long Way Till Morning" when Demona was urging Goliath to replace Hudson.)
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are great finders
posted @ Mon, Aug 13, 2012 6:58:53 pm EDT from 108.226.1.5

@GregXB - I read that fic, and overall enjoyed it, but I went looking for the epilogue where she escapes the next day or night ;)

This is just my personal take on the character, but I think she would go *completely* batshiat insane if she's locked up for any period of time against her will (unlike her time in the Labyrinth where she was basically in control). I also speculate that she has been locked up in the past, and has developed some pretty profound escape artist skills as a defense against that - but again, that's just my speculation/opinion.

Plus like you I think her second love will most likely pre-date 2198, and I don't think it would be someone she met while locked up. I also think she's going to take over Nightstone again, and I think GregW mentioned its still around in some form in 2198 (although that of course does not necessarily mean she's running it, I like to think she still maintains access to some of those resources).

But overall, it was an enjoyable read, and I liked the way some many elements we only know from the FAQ's were incorporated.
FTBM2010
posted @ Mon, Aug 13, 2012 6:53:58 pm EDT from 68.171.109.168

TODD> Considering that the Weird Sisters are the ones who trap the characters within the play, I would assume they're playing themselves. I tend to think John Castaway will play Malcolm.

FTBM2010> <<Sampson has to actively recruit D for the 2198 alliance. Something about that (could be wrong) gives me the impression that he has to seek her out in a literal sense as well. I'm thinking D is pretty tough to find - we don't know her where-abouts at the beginning of 2198, if she's lurking about Manhattan or if she's hunkered down in the Kerguelen Islands somewhere.>>

I wrote a fic, "Rhapsody" which served as my theory on the link between "Gargoyles" and "Gargoyles 2198" and the fic ended with Demona being locked up in the highly secure dungeons of the Eyrie Building after, well... if you want the link, I'll post it. But in my mind, she didn't get out of that cell until 2198 when, in desperation to build up the Resistance, Samson makes a deal with their personal demon....

... on that note, I tend to think Demona being part of the Resistance could be a great propaganda tool the Illuminati could use to discredit the Resistance.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
Here's the problem with most fanfic writers: they seem to think Dominique is a second life. It isn't. Demona spelled it plainly in "High Noon." She's a gargoyle. Dominique is just a tool to help her in her goals. She'll use the form because she changes into a human, whether she likes it or not, but Dominique is not another life for her.
posted @ Mon, Aug 13, 2012 6:44:19 pm EDT from 24.185.74.60

@Brack I mentioned in the last week's comment room I would love to see Nick play a significant role in her redemption, but I def. don't see a romance coming out of it.

@Matt - Redemption=Death is such a worn out cliche at this point, that I would really hope that GregW doesn't go in that direction, with two such not-cliched characters. Although I'm sure if he does, he would manage to make it suitably tragic.

@Adam - My personal thoughts on the Angela/Demona angle, is that Angela will plant seeds she'll never live to see come to fruition. I am hoping we'll see a continued relationship of some kind (probably difficult one, but *a* relationship) between them as the series continues. Some kind of a link...which leads me to some probably massive over-speculation in this next bit, but...

Sampson has to actively recruit D for the 2198 alliance. Something about that (could be wrong) gives me the impression that he has to seek her out in a literal sense as well. I'm thinking D is pretty tough to find - we don't know her where-abouts at the beginning of 2198, if she's lurking about Manhattan or if she's hunkered down in the Kerguelen Islands somewhere. If she's still around in Manhattan, or off somewhere far away, maybe there's some link through Angela, some residual aspect of their relationship, that helps Sampson/the clan to find her. B/c I think MacBeth, with his superior Demona-hunting experience, isn't recruited at that point.

But then again maybe she'll make herself easy to find. Sometimes she does that too.

@Todd - yes.
FTBM2010
posted @ Mon, Aug 13, 2012 6:37:37 pm EDT from 68.171.109.168

Since the discussion on Demona's future in "Gargoyles 2198" was linked to the "Weird Macbeth" story, I have a few thoughts on that story (which I hope Greg Weisman will get to tell someday).

1. We know that Goliath and Elisa would play Macduff and Lady Macduff in it. In Shakespeare's play, Macduff and Lady Macduff have a young son who's murdered by Macbeth's henchmen along with Lady Macduff. I wonder who'd play him in the "Weird Macbeth" story - because of who'd be playing the parents, that would certainly raise some interesting possibilities....

2. I've also sometimes wondered who'd play the three Witches in that story. Would the Weird Sisters slip out of Avalon and play themselves, like Macbeth? Or would some unfortunate humans or gargoyles get stuck with those parts?

3. Another casting decision that I can't resist musing over: the Third Murderer. (For those not too familiar with the play, after Macbeth sends two henchmen to dispose of Banquo, a third man joins them in the murder scene, claiming to have been sent by Macbeth. He's been the center of much speculation by Shakespearean scholars over his true identity and motives; some have even suggested that he's Macbeth in disguise.)

4. The story would certainly tie in with the famous superstitions about the play "Macbeth" (and certainly, given Macbeth's role in the Gargoyles Universe, the "curse of the Scottish play" would be a logical thing to explore at some point). Though Greg doesn't seem to have had it in mind when he came up with the idea (I asked him about it at "Ask Greg").

A thought about Demona in "Gargoyles 2198". We know that human-gargoyle relations have eased by 2198. The Gargoyle Minority Protection Act would have marked the end of mainstream armed violence, and presumably the human public now understand that gargoyles aren't evil monsters and want to live in peace wtih humans. The Quarrymen would presumably have dwindled into a mere handful, and probably take a stance more of "Write to your representatives to argue that the Gargoyle Minority Protection Act is a bad idea and should be repealed" rather than "Get out your hammers and smash them!" I suspect that a lot of humans still wouldn't be keen on gargoyles, but it would be more prefering to avoid social contact with them than violent hostility. The era of frenzied mobs would be over.

And then the Space-Spawn abduct the world leaders while they're at the hatching of the gargoyles on Queen Florence Island. And whoever's leading the Quarrymen in 2198, if he's as clever as Castaway, will see the advantage there. He could start spreading speculations along the lines of "It was extremely convenient for the Space-Spawn that all the world leaders were in one place when they arrived on Earth, and could all be captured at once. And where were the world leaders? At a gargoyle hatching. Maybe the gargoyles had secret communications with the Space-Spawn, arranged the whole thing with them to speed up the Space-Spawn's conquest." And that could encourage a fresh spate of anti-gargoyle feeling.

Demona would note that. I doubt that the decline of anti-gargoyle violence and the Gargoyle Minority Protection Act would alter her feelings towards humans that much, not when her real motive is her failure to take responsibility for the Wyvern Massacre. But she might see in the mood shift an echo of how things were in Macbeth's reign, which started off well with humans and gargoyles living in peace again, Demona even being cheered by Macbeth's human subjects after Macbeth appointed her his primary advisors - and then, just seventeen years later, one of Macbeth's closest counsellors is urging him to abandon his friendship with the gargoyles to appease the English (and Demona thinks that Macbeth would have done that). Could Demona see this as fresh evidence of how false and fickle humans are, and find wiping out the human race all the more tempting? (Not to mention seeing an opportunity of converting the current generation of gargoyles to her cause.) It's certainly feasible.
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are great finders
posted @ Mon, Aug 13, 2012 6:34:01 pm EDT from 108.226.1.5

ADAM> <<Greg B- I think the only thing that fanfic got remotely cloose in the Demona/Angela relationship is Demona doing something to hurt the clan and Angela telling her off>>

So close, I think it happened in "The Reckoning." Before the fics were even written. Such marvelous insight. ;)
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
Here's the problem with most fanfic writers: they seem to think Dominique is a second life. It isn't. Demona spelled it plainly in "High Noon." She's a gargoyle. Dominique is just a tool to help her in her goals. She'll use the form because she changes into a human, whether she likes it or not, but Dominique is not another life for her.
posted @ Mon, Aug 13, 2012 5:05:13 pm EDT from 24.185.74.60

Greg&Matt> you both make a really good point about how Demona's story should end. After all, in her mind she isn't evil. She is just filled with hate and fear and denial. She truly needs the right people and events to turn her around. I hope this doesn't preclude Demona from making a man out of Nick the day before they take on SpaceSpawn empire:)
Brack
posted @ Mon, Aug 13, 2012 4:59:01 pm EDT from 174.252.42.203

Greg B- I think the only thing that fanfic got remotely cloose in the Demona/Angela relationship is Demona doing something to hurt the clan and Angela telling her off.
Adam - [carl006_1999@yahoo.com]
posted @ Mon, Aug 13, 2012 4:58:40 pm EDT from 170.112.1.251

Or, who knows, maybe they go on forever and never die. The universe implodes around them, expands again and they live for all eternity. Like that Futurama episode...

... I would totally watch that. LOL!
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
Here's the problem with most fanfic writers: they seem to think Dominique is a second life. It isn't. Demona spelled it plainly in "High Noon." She's a gargoyle. Dominique is just a tool to help her in her goals. She'll use the form because she changes into a human, whether she likes it or not, but Dominique is not another life for her.
posted @ Mon, Aug 13, 2012 4:42:07 pm EDT from 24.185.74.60

Brack> I don't think so. It's possible, but Greg has said redemption. If and when they die, I expect it will be a mutual decision they both make, not a murder/suicide.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
Here's the problem with most fanfic writers: they seem to think Dominique is a second life. It isn't. Demona spelled it plainly in "High Noon." She's a gargoyle. Dominique is just a tool to help her in her goals. She'll use the form because she changes into a human, whether she likes it or not, but Dominique is not another life for her.
posted @ Mon, Aug 13, 2012 4:40:59 pm EDT from 24.185.74.60

Even though it might be realistic and make sense in some ways, the idea that either Macbeth or Demona would just get tired of living and manage to kill the other to commit suicide feels unsatisfying and anti-climatic. I just can't see Greg writing a story like that anymore than I can imagine him writing a story where one accidently kills the other.
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"I was so totally wrong..." -Lexington, "Thrill Of The Hunt"
posted @ Mon, Aug 13, 2012 4:40:49 pm EDT from 99.92.109.252

Yes but i think Gruoch killed herself because of grief. Do you think Demons's guilt will one lead to her killing herself? Most likely by killing MacBeth, not out of anger, but just a wish to die.
Brack
posted @ Mon, Aug 13, 2012 4:34:36 pm EDT from 174.252.42.203

Yeah, Gruoch did in the "Gargoyles Universe" too.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
Here's the problem with most fanfic writers: they seem to think Dominique is a second life. It isn't. Demona spelled it plainly in "High Noon." She's a gargoyle. Dominique is just a tool to help her in her goals. She'll use the form because she changes into a human, whether she likes it or not, but Dominique is not another life for her.
posted @ Mon, Aug 13, 2012 4:05:47 pm EDT from 24.185.74.60

That's true, I didn't think about Nicks age. I can't remember exactly, how did Shakespeare's Lady MacBeth die? She committed suicide, correct?
Brack
posted @ Mon, Aug 13, 2012 4:01:05 pm EDT from 174.252.42.203

BRACK> But where does the Lady Macbeth aspect of Demona come in there, and it is an extremely important part of the character's makeup. That and Nick Maza is seventeen in 2198. ;)

Shakespeare is the king of the Gargoyles Universe, gotta keep the allusions to him in mind.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
Here's the problem with most fanfic writers: they seem to think Dominique is a second life. It isn't. Demona spelled it plainly in "High Noon." She's a gargoyle. Dominique is just a tool to help her in her goals. She'll use the form because she changes into a human, whether she likes it or not, but Dominique is not another life for her.
posted @ Mon, Aug 13, 2012 3:42:49 pm EDT from 24.185.74.60

Personally I hope Demona never turns good. She's just too wonderful a bad girl to have her change. If she does end up reframing herself through the power of love, I think it may be because of Nick Maza. McBeth and Demona I feel have too much baggage to ever make a relationship work. And who better to make Demona realize that humans aren't all evil that one who has sworn to be a guardian. Plus her true love being a descendant of Goliath and Elisa would just be icing on the cake.
Brack
posted @ Mon, Aug 13, 2012 3:21:13 pm EDT from 174.252.42.203

ADAM> I hate the fics where Angela waves a finger in Demona's face, Demona cries, and then she eats Christmas dinner with the clan less than two months after she attempted mass genocide.

But yeah, Angela is long dead before 2198.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
Here's the problem with most fanfic writers: they seem to think Dominique is a second life. It isn't. Demona spelled it plainly in "High Noon." She's a gargoyle. Dominique is just a tool to help her in her goals. She'll use the form because she changes into a human, whether she likes it or not, but Dominique is not another life for her.
posted @ Mon, Aug 13, 2012 2:49:34 pm EDT from 24.185.74.60

I guess I had always hoped that Demona's redemption would have something to do with Angela. But there is probably too much old fanfic in me. And for Greg, I think that would be too obvious. So unless Angela goes back to Avalon to live for a while, she will probably be long dead by the time of Demona's redemption.
Adam - [carl006_1999@yahoo.com]
posted @ Mon, Aug 13, 2012 2:46:49 pm EDT from 170.112.1.251

I don't know if she'll die after her epiphany, god knows I don't want her to have the Darth Vader ending... but I think there will be a period of guilt and seeing all the blood on her hands, like Lady Macbeth. Maybe some madness and then (unlike Lady Macbeth) redemption.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
Here's the problem with most fanfic writers: they seem to think Dominique is a second life. It isn't. Demona spelled it plainly in "High Noon." She's a gargoyle. Dominique is just a tool to help her in her goals. She'll use the form because she changes into a human, whether she likes it or not, but Dominique is not another life for her.
posted @ Mon, Aug 13, 2012 2:02:45 pm EDT from 24.185.74.60

Macbeth and Demona Spinny!Hug=Love. I think your theory makes loads of sense. I see Demona making a face-turn as a slow process that occurs over the course of 2198.

Slowly realizing she actually likes the other members of La Resistance and remembering what it feels like to be part of a clan. But yes, I think some major opportunity where there's two choices and Demona *finally* makes the right one will be a a turning point. Sort of a callback to those moments in Awakening and City of Stone, but with a different outcome.
J29
"Love makes you do the wacky."
posted @ Mon, Aug 13, 2012 2:02:04 pm EDT from 184.12.122.193

Great blog entry, Greg.

I can definitely picture Demona's epiphany moment being followed by a redemption of self sacrifice. Of course for that to work and for it to mean anything, as Matt alluded to, it would be something that she couldn't come back from.
Anthony Tini
posted @ Mon, Aug 13, 2012 1:54:31 pm EDT from 159.240.11.159

Matt> I like the idea, although I also don't think that's how it will work. In my case, it's purely because I think, when they die, it won't be a matter of one killing the other and then dying "because". They will both simultaneously suffer mortal wounds.

This is just because of various things that GregW has said or hinted at over the years. Neither of them has technically suffered any wound that is necessarily mortal to date, and the Weird Sister's declaration could be conceived more as a prophecy than as a statement of the rules.

So... if it happens, I think they're more likely to both be in the control room at the same time, and the only way to deactivate the giant weapon is to blow up the whole facility with the two of them inside it.
Supermorff
posted @ Mon, Aug 13, 2012 1:52:52 pm EDT from 86.161.35.89

MATT> Great thought. Not sure if that's how it will go down (because I do think they'll have involvement with the clan at Notre Dame), but great thought.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
Here's the problem with most fanfic writers: they seem to think Dominique is a second life. It isn't. Demona spelled it plainly in "High Noon." She's a gargoyle. Dominique is just a tool to help her in her goals. She'll use the form because she changes into a human, whether she likes it or not, but Dominique is not another life for her.
posted @ Mon, Aug 13, 2012 1:25:04 pm EDT from 24.185.74.60

I like the thought that the Space Spawn try to get Demona to betray the Resistance.

Your blog and your theory about Macbeth and Demona eventually falling in love inspired a thought: What if they were in love and Demona had redeemed and things seemed all great and then something happened where one of them was forced to kill the other for a greater good. It isn't about revenge or ending a long existence or an ancient fued. They don't even want to die, but something forces their hand. Like, I don't know, one of them is stuck in the Space Spawn planet-destroyer weapon control room trying to deactivate a firing sequence on Earth but is unable to and the other has the ability to destroy the control room and thus save the world, but have to kill the other, which would kill them both. Maybe the one in the control room would even realize the situation and ask the other to end it for the sake of the planet even though it means ending their love and their lives. That'd be cool. Sad, but cool. I would definitly want Demona in the control room realizing the situation and screaming to Macbeth to blow it up while he still can. Epic!
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"I was so totally wrong..." -Lexington, "Thrill Of The Hunt"
posted @ Mon, Aug 13, 2012 1:00:38 pm EDT from 99.92.109.252

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