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Gargoyles

The Phoenix Gate

Comment Room Archive

Comments for the week ending September 23, 2012

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In case anyone wondered why there's been so little to show on the YJ: Legacy Facebook page...it looks like Warner Brothers was dragging its heels. Hopefully we'll get some new details soon.

http://www.facebook.com/youngjusticelegacy/posts/355284097890786

Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

Arlo> I didn't find a single coloring book for offer but I found out that there's apparently more than one (at least 3). I don't know how easy it is to get the non-canon-comics, but that doesn't bother me because I don't want them (and you can read most of them online too).
But I found that second set of playing cards on Amazon... and now I can't order them because they "can't be shipped to my location" whatever that means.

Comet
I'm shipping off...to find my wooden leg!

Is Gargoyles stuff hard to get? I've only tried getting the Marvel comic and the Disney Adventures comics, but I didn't have any trouble getting those. I've seen the action figures and Sega game for sale on Amazon for reasonable prices. I guess the card game and coloring books might be different.

Shade> Welcome.

Arlo
Gargoyles need not apply.

I think I need more Gargoyles stuff. But most of it is pretty hard to get as it seems. Does anyone have one or both of these card games? They look pretty awesome.
http://www.mindspring.com/~dmalderman/gargoyles/games-puzzles.html
I'm also interested in that ominous "coloring book".

Comet
I'm shipping off...to find my wooden leg!

I get a fair number of misspellings of my screen name. It's probably because there are real people in the world named Jurgen, and so they automatically think that's what mine says.

Shade, welcome to the clan! Help yourself to some complimentary cookies.

Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]

hi im new to the Gargoyles fanship. i came into it over the Coupleship of Golieth an Elisa i liked in the fan fics. someone said that it was not really noticable it the Series of Gargoyles. but it was in the Comics of Gargoyles. well anyways. that is what brought me an here. also so i could meet some nice friends. an maybe a good friend that is A Gargirl around my age. to share fan fic writing with. God bless an peace to you all. glad to be here.
ShadeSilverwingLives - [AUCZORAKJA@yahoo.com]
NewllyConcievedGargoylesFans

Brainiac- Soryy about that.

When I was in college, I worked behind the scenes on "A Midsummer Night's Dream". I showed the guy playing Puck a picture of "Gargoyles" and he really liked that look better than the one he used for the play.

Adam - [carl006_1999@yahoo.com]

Brainiac: Heh. My handle tends to get it pretty bad too, though from capitalization rather than spelling errors; everyone seems to want to type it as "MasterDramon" for some strange reason.

Arlo: Fairly low-key compared to the others, but I wrote about "Gargoyles" for a state standardized test essay in high school about "a work of art or fiction which had a large impact on you." It got full marks as I recall, but I doubt the bar was set very high.

Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
"This is the springtime of my loving, the second season I am to know..." - Led Zeppelin

Heh, in my freshman year of high school my English teacher originally planned to assign Romeo & Juliet for our Shakespeare "chunk."

Not a bad thing, but I had already read it in middle school and soon enough I was suggesting he pick Macbeth or A Midsummer Night's Dream instead . . . wonder why I was keen on those two? ;)

He ultimately assigned us Macbeth.

Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka

This isn't quite the same, but I submitted an essay on "Gargoyles" for an anthology on the Middle Ages as depicted on television. (Unfortunately, while they liked my essay, the anthology was cancelled because they couldn't get enough contributors.)
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are great finders

When I was applying to film school, for our admissions, we had to write an essay analyzing a film or television series. I wrote a six page essay about "Gargoyles."
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
Here's the problem with most fanfic writers: they seem to think Dominique is a second life. It isn't. Demona spelled it plainly in "High Noon." She's a gargoyle. Dominique is just a tool to help her in her goals. She'll use the form because she changes into a human, whether she likes it or not, but Dominique is not another life for her.

J29> Wow, you wrote a college essay about Gargoyles and didn't get kicked out of school? Very bold. I'm impressed.

Brainiac> Yeah, I've also been guilty of misspelling your name quite a few times. I don't know what it is that's trained me to drop the I from that word when adding "iac" at the end.

Arlo
Gargoyles need not apply.

Matt> Yeah, it happens a lot. The first one you mentioned happened so much at certain forums I frequented that I started paying attention and noting that I was not an insane devotee of Kellogg's Raisin Bran whenever it happened. It's kinda become a thing for me and most people find it amusing to think of me as a madman utterly enraged by misspellings of his handle.
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

Holy mess of typos Batman. Lets try that again:

Going through files on my external harddrive I found an old essay from a Shakespeare course I took in college. The subject was how, even though Gargoyles' Macbeth is based on the historical figure, there were still themes and situations drawn from and inspired by the play. (I got an A.)

J29
"My name is Virginia. And I live on the edge of the forest."

Going through files on my external harddrive I found an old essay from a Shakespeare course I took in college. The subject was on how, even though Gargoyles' Macbeth is based on the historical figure, there were still themes and situations drawn from and inspired by the play. (I got in an A.)
J29
"My name is Virginia. And I live on the edge of the forest."

Ha!

For some reason, your name here is the most frequently misspelled. Braniac, Brianiac, Brainac. I've seen it in many forms over the years. I only noticed because I did it once myself... and you pointed it out to me.

Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Thats three down and two to go..." -Sevarius, "The Reckoning"

He's the Clolector of Wordls.
Greg Weisman

Adam> Who exactly is this Brianiac guy?

Heh.

Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

Comic- Sorry, I ment brianiac.
Adam - [carl006_1999@yahoo.com]

What? I didn't post anything about that xD
I know, it was probably a mistake, but at first it really confused me.

Comet
I'm shipping off...to find my wooden leg!

Comet- I am unfamiliar with the Ultima games and will have to look into those. I know about the D&D gargoyles, but I am interested in how the gargoyles we know and love would work in D&D, LOTR, and such.
Adam - [carl006_1999@yahoo.com]

Brack> Apologies for my snippyness then. I've been a bit under the weather, and I took it out on you. Reason, not an excuse. Please forgive me.
Chip - [Sir_Griff723@yahoo.com]
The premise of your question is flawed. You were never human. But you WERE heroes.~~Red Tornado

Thanks Greg I'm hoping I can find all the graphic novels on Amazon for a good price. Maybe as a Christmas present for myself.
Brack

BRACK> Since the last two issues of Bad Guys and last four issues of Gargoyles were never released individually, I recommend you buy the graphic novels to really get everything.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
Here's the problem with most fanfic writers: they seem to think Dominique is a second life. It isn't. Demona spelled it plainly in "High Noon." She's a gargoyle. Dominique is just a tool to help her in her goals. She'll use the form because she changes into a human, whether she likes it or not, but Dominique is not another life for her.

No I just found out that they exist when I found this web sight a few weeks ago. I've been looking for old/ used ones at the Hastings here without luck. I think I will try Amazon to find them.
Brack

Brack> That was the point of the battle.

For a complete list, in order: Goliath, Broadway, Angela, Lexington, Elisa, Brooklyn, Bronx, and Hudson's blood samples were all taken. Did you even READ the comic? It's pretty obvious.

Chip - [Sir_Griff723@yahoo.com]
The premise of your question is flawed. You were never human. But you WERE heroes.~~Red Tornado

Quick question. Who did Thailog manage to swipe DNA samples from during the Halloween party that he crashed. I know he got some from Goliath but did he get samples of the entire clan?
Brack

Adam> I refer you to the gargoyles found in the Ultima games (the sixth in particular is their big showing).

Also, as far as DnD goes, gargoyles already exist...though in the more common villainous form.

Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

With the new "Hobbit" trailer coming out this week, it got me thinking. How do you think Gargoyles would fair in midevel fantasy worlds like lotr and Dungeons & Dragons? When Gargoyles first came out, my brother and I actually made a gargoyle race to fit in with D&D.
Adam - [carl006_1999@yahoo.com]

I love that comicbookmovie.com is now getting their news from Avatar Wiki.
Supermorff

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/news/?a=67577

Guess What Shame-A- Lot is up to now.

Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]

Does anyone know where I can buy gargoyle sericel. I have a few and am looking to buy some more thanks.
martin - [silva2012@aol.vcom]

Tangent, but kudos to GregW for knocking the queue to less than 500!
Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka

GLN> It's not a complete contradiction. After all, dates repeat given a sufficient number of years. Greg is using dates to delineate events relative to one another, that's all.

I'd also point out some dates don't make any sense for 2010. Wally's first day of school, for example. In 2010, that was a Sunday. In the end, it's just fiction. Take it relative to itself, not relative to the real world. Greg's also mentioned certain uses of times and dates in the art assets shown on screen have been inaccurate, thus making the issue even more contentious.

Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

From what I'm hearing season two is only year six if you count season one as year zero, but then again I never counted a "year zero" to be begin with. Season one has always been year one to me.
Green Lantern's Nightlight

Green Lantern's Nightlight> No, because the time skip occurred at New Years. It went from the end of Year Zero/beginning of Year One to the beginning of Year Six.
Supermorff

That first link is a complete contradiction. It basically says that SEASON ONE is set in 2010 yet it's not canon. Only now is Greg re-establishing that he doesn't consider it to be set in 2010. It goes back and forth. That's for them to decide, but consistency would be nice.
Green Lantern's Nightlight

You're right on the year they formed. 2001 was when the unrelated TV series started.

Season 2 is Year Six? Wouldn't that be Year Five? I think you jumped one year.

Green Lantern's Nightlight

GLN> The wiki lists 2003 as the League founding year (it goes by the dates of 2010 being used for Season 1 for the most part) and cites the very Ask Greg response I linked earlier.

As to the Team Year description, it's in the tie-in comics since stories are starting to jump around from the first season to the second and various points during the five-year gap (like the upcoming Legacy game). Season One is basically Team Year Zero, save for the parts of the finale that take place after New Year's (those are part of Team Year One). The gap contains Team Years One through Five and Season 2 (save for any flashbacks) is entirely Team Year Six.

Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

I've seen "TEAM YEAR FIVE" in a couple of responses. I thought this was referring to the five year gap, but I also think it means the Team's fifth year. From a production point of view it would really be "Team Year Two". (I'm no doubt stating the obvious.)
Green Lantern's Nightlight

I think I got "2001" from the Young Justice Wiki. Obviously any wiki is just a fansite, but they use everything from Ask Greg as a source although alot of that is canon-in-training. In sense we're just supposed to take "canon-in-training" as "a grain of salt"?
Green Lantern's Nightlight

GLN> It's been like that since the start, though. Consider this: http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=13695

Greg has never been one for math, but he recognizes it's necessary for something like this. The dates are more to keep track of everything in terms of relative position to one another; avoiding a "true" year sidesteps the possibility of making the show unintentionally dated.

In other words, time does proceed linearly (save perhaps Impulse) and events can be X years ahead or behind of other events - hence the descriptions of Team Year # in the just-released Issue 20. The "official" numerical year of any point in time is just something that's avoided. For example, Greg's described the League as having been founded seven years prior to the start of the series, NOT in 2001 as you stated (as seen here: http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=12859). That gives you a concrete idea of the progression of time in the series without tying down a "canon" year.

Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

YJ is supposed to exist within a real time. That was one of the best things about it. Young Justice Wiki has gone by these dates going so far as to give most characters a specific birth date, but now we're NOT supposed to consider season one in 2010 and by extension season two in 2015. It's kind of annoying really, I mean if you don't want to make a show linear in time than why bother adding the darn time stamps? It's easier to just use the time stamps in a non-linear year, but to whom? I find it much more rewarding with not only the time stamps, but also knowing the year the show (or season) is set in. I can see why some people would not want to be confined by specifics so it can be ambiguous and not worry about continuity (a la Family Guy) and even those shows that still use real years will have one of the characters turn 10 every time they have a birthday. The producers have obviously put alot of hard work into the background of most of the characters even the ones we haven't seen yet so why now say no, "Young Justice season 1 is not set in 2010". So what? It's just floating around with no place in time. The JL was supposed to be formed in 2001 which would be 11 years ago from our point in time, but that really means nothing if season 1 isn't even set in a specific year and that also means season two is just floating around set in no specific date in the future. It's bad enough the Ben 10 series is set in a non-linear timeline, now YJ's present and near-present is set in some non-linear timeline, but then still has set dates of certain events that have happened in the past. Everything that happened in the past might aswell just be answered with "40 or 50 years ago". Why bother giving the past a linear time if the present doesn't?
Green Lantern's Nightlight

Re: Avalon homophobia> Would homophobia have even been a big Christianity "thing" back then? How well-known would those few lines of the Bible be in the 10th century (even assuming they were interpreted the same way back then as they often are today), especially given the lack of education?

I don't actually know the answers to those questions, by the way; I'm just extrapolating from what seems logical to me, and from Greg's response here: http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=9001. I've done even less research on the matter. It just seems likely to me that the major religious issues of today probably weren't the same a millennium ago.

Ross
"Oh villain! Villain! Smiling cursed villain! That one might smile and smile, and be a villain! Gooo VILLAIN! Whooooo! Yeah!" -- Sally Avril

Comet - I doubt that human parents I Avalon would have bothered teaching Homophobia to the eggs. They themselves were outcast from society, so I can't see them teaching their young that being different is wrong.
Plus, how Christian were they really raised. Yes they have biblical names, but I think Greg has stated that they were raised as Gargoyle as the humans could raise them. Which means they probably weren't raised with full Christian values anyway.

Brack

I loved this comment by an Ask Greg Helper: http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=16145

Well done whichever one of you picked that quote.

Supermorff

SomeGeek> To be honest, I can't (simply can't) imagine Tom being homophobic, especially not about Gargoyles. And Katharine? Not anymore. Maybe her old self (before the massacre). The Magus is a bit difficult, though. But probably pretty much the same as Katharine.
In my opinion this would be interesting to explore. Ancient christians dealing with, and accepting (sooner or later), homosexual Gargoyles. Yay.

Comet
I'm shipping off...to find my wooden leg!

@Adam - each of them (to some extent) threatens a different aspect of the Gargoyles. Thus it is hard to say who is the biggest threat. For instance, the Quarrymen and the Pack are more of a threat to the Gargoyle's freedom/life (and of those two, the Pack does have more intimate knowledge of the Gargoyles as well as more resources and skill, but i might argue that the quarrymen are the bigger threat of the two since they have vastly larger numbers). Demona conversely threatens the Gargoyle's sense of value in that she threatens things that the gargoyle's have sworn to protect (i.e. human life) and if the Gargoyle's get in her way Demona has no problem attempting to kill them in the process..as far as coldsteel and thailog's group, been a while since i read/saw stuff with them so i can't specifically comment on that. Having said all that, overall, to figure who is the biggest threat i'd have to decide if gargoyle's value their own life more or the lives of those they protect more - i think both would be devastating to them for different reasons.

@Comet - to answer that question we would have have to have a better understanding of Christianity values as they were taught to the humans on Avalon, then figure out how those Christian values would have filtered when mixed with the given personalities. Because that combination would speak to how the christian society on avalon would have developed in isolation from the rest of the world.

IF you go so far as to assume ultra conservative teachings were taught to the humans and that their personalities were conservative to uphold the teachings as they were taught them, then i might assume that a gay gargoyle might have some difficulty in being open about his sexual preference.

But also, any part of that equation could be different enough to change that (i.e. maybe Princess Katherine was taught very liberally, maybe she herself did not take religion as seriously despite her teachings, maybe the society developed with such a strong reliance on community support (i.e. you trust everyone explicitly or else you won't survive) that it holds community support above religious norms, etc).

(sorry for the long ramble, i'm procrastinating on a project so rambling about for 5 minutes this gave me something else to do :) )

SomeGeek
http://www.squidoo.com/thegeeklens-cartoons

Probably Demona... her plans are much more genocidal. I suppose the Quarrymen are too, but they also need to keep good publicity.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
Here's the problem with most fanfic writers: they seem to think Dominique is a second life. It isn't. Demona spelled it plainly in "High Noon." She's a gargoyle. Dominique is just a tool to help her in her goals. She'll use the form because she changes into a human, whether she likes it or not, but Dominique is not another life for her.

By the end of the comics, Gargoyles have serveral enimies. The Quarrymen, the Pack, Thailog's group, Coldsteel, and Demona, with who knows what the Illuminati really want. Who do you think is the Gargoyles biggest threat?
Adam - [carl006_1999@yahoo.com]

The humans on Avalon are christians, and the Gargoyles are raised with these beliefs. So, do you think it could be a problem for Gargoyles on Avalon to be openly gay? I'm just interested in what you think....
Comet
I'm shipping off...to find my wooden leg!

Anthony> We know he arrives in 2198 with Fu-Dog, so it must be some time after meeting Fu-Dog but before Katana. Since Nashville's egg was laid 28 years before the return to the present, and the dance was 40 years long, we know Brooklyn probably arrived in 2198 in the first decade or so of his Timedancing.
Supermorff

RE: Brooklyn in the future

I don't know what Greg Weisman has confirmed or not concerning Brooklyn's Timedancing adventure, but it's all canon in training in my opinion until it's in print.

With that said, the only canon story we have is Brooklyn's adventure in the past from the trades. It's been a while since I've read the trade, but from memory I remember two things I'd like to bring up in support of my opinion: 1) I seem to recall that Brooklyn was very cautious on what he said aloud and what he kept to himself not only to protect the timeline, but to also protect himself, and 2) he drew from memory what he knew from reading on his own and even broke the fourth wall to encourage the reader to do the same.

Therefore, in my opinion, when Brooklyn travels to the future I'm inclined to believe that the gargoyles and humans he comes in contact with will ALSO protect the timeline and themselves, while at the same time, draw from their memory of what they have read (of/about the past) to effectively communicate with someone not of their "time".

I'm not sure "when" chronologically in Brooklyn's timedancing adventure that he will arrive in the future. I would suspect that a less mature Brooklyn would be more inquisitive, while a more mature Brooklyn would be "it is what it is" and "let's kick some Space Spawn butt" to ensure that the Earth will be a place of equality and not oppression for the human and gargoyle race.

Anthony Tini - [anthonyotini@gmail.com]

Pity for Thailog that Demona beat him to it.
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are great finders

Here's a thought. In the past some people have wondered what happened to the disc of statistical specs that Demona recorded and Robyn stole in "Hunter's Moon."

In #7 of the comic, we see Thailog and Brentwood in St. Damien's Cathedral searching for something. I think we can safely assume that it's the Atlantean crystal. Greg has said before when I asked that Thailog did not know about Demona's plans for Operation: Clean Slate (looks like Thailog wasn't the only of the pair doing the deceiving).

I think that disc ended up in the Illuminati's hands. Matt was head of the Gargoyle Taskforce, or even Hacker with his connections to Matt and being part of the FBI got to comb that Hunter airship... and the Society decided they wanted the Atlantean crystal. Considering that Thailog was searching for "something" under Shari's supervision, it would explain where that disc went and how Thailog knew to search for it without knowing about Demona's plans.

Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
Here's the problem with most fanfic writers: they seem to think Dominique is a second life. It isn't. Demona spelled it plainly in "High Noon." She's a gargoyle. Dominique is just a tool to help her in her goals. She'll use the form because she changes into a human, whether she likes it or not, but Dominique is not another life for her.

Algernon> Continuing the discussion, okay if everyone Brooklyn encounters is going out of their way not to tell him about the past, then I guess I can see it. It's just the fact that he's spending a year or more with them that bothers me. It's not that I don't feel it's possible, just that I feel it's too unlikely, the sort of thing that doesn't fly in stories. Like hundreds of bullets flying at Eddie Murphy in Beverly Hills Cop, and not one of them hitting him.

And again, I'm not trying to say that I think 9/11 is this special thing that's bound to get back to him. I feel it's one of many historical events that I can't imagine him not hearing the bits and pieces of. And when he does go back to his own time, I have to think he's gotta be divided, or at least wondering about, all of them, not just 9/11.

Arlo
Gargoyles need not apply.

"Welcome, lad, to the wonderful world of jet-lag. Don't worry. You've got TEN days to adjust before the move the Stone."

(paraphrased, as I don't have my paperbacks on me at the moment)

Ross
"Oh villain! Villain! Smiling cursed villain! That one might smile and smile, and be a villain! Gooo VILLAIN! Whooooo! Yeah!" -- Sally Avril

"Been sleep-walking for NINE hundred thirty-NINE years"
Adam - [carl006_1999@yahoo.com]

"Gorebash and I have set up a couple of pages here at Station EIGHT so that I might be able to answer your questions about the shows and/or ramble on about anything that strikes my fancy." -- Greg Weisman, "A MESSAGE FROM GREG WEISMAN"

What? Too cheeky an entry? ;)

Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka

"3150 Third Avenue...a SEVENty year-old address. Not much to go on."
Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
"This is the springtime of my loving, the second season I am to know..." - Led Zeppelin

I learned about the castle and you six from an ancient book that recently came into my possession.
Arlo
Gargoyles need not apply.

(5th)Fifth!!!!!
Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]

I had no choice. He would've killed the FOUR of you.
Anthony Tini

Dang...Beat me to it...With the same quote.

All right...

We are Oberon. Lord of the THIRD race, and ruler of Avalon. This is Titania, our once and future queen.

Chip - [Sir_Griff723@yahoo.com]
The premise of your question is flawed. You were never human. But you WERE heroes.~~Red Tornado

A grey bearded human and a gargoyle we once knew as your SECOND in command.
Chip - [Sir_Griff723@yahoo.com]
The premise of your question is flawed. You were never human. But you WERE heroes.~~Red Tornado

"One was a grey-beareded human. The other was a female gargoyle we once knew as your SECOND-in-command."
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
Here's the problem with most fanfic writers: they seem to think Dominique is a second life. It isn't. Demona spelled it plainly in "High Noon." She's a gargoyle. Dominique is just a tool to help her in her goals. She'll use the form because she changes into a human, whether she likes it or not, but Dominique is not another life for her.

You could be right. Maybe it would be a good idea to test the brew first. Any volunteers?
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!