I know this is a little off topic, but I remember Greg saying that the Gargoyle beasts on Avalon are named after famous warriors. I am watching that Viking series on the History Channel, and they have a character named Lathgertha, who is based on a famous sheildmaiden in Danish Viking history. I this Lathgertha is a possibility for the second female beast on Avalon.
Adam
posted @ Sun, Mar 3, 2013 10:16:31 pm EST from 76.113.172.81

Harlan> They are both cases of someone asking a boss to curb the free speech rights of his employees. I was just saying what it reminded me of. Not everyone shares my visceral reaction or yours. I apologize I couldn't come up with a more analogous example on short notice.
Source
posted @ Sat, Mar 2, 2013 9:40:26 pm EST from 184.82.177.103

Source>"However your request reminds of the one Maryland state rep Emmett C. Burns made when he requested to the owner of the Baltimore Ravens that he should try to curb the free speech rights of Brandon Ayanbadejo, a football player outspoken on gay rights."

Anonymous's request is juvenile and ridiculous, but I'm pretty sure relating "tell people to stop calling a fictional character douchey" to "stop telling someone to voice his opinion on gay rights" is just as juvenile and ridiculous. It's one thing to put out what he's doing (e.i. wanting people to stop expressing their opinions), it's quite another thing to "coincidentally" link it to prejudice that has nothing to do with the conversation.
Harlan Phoenix
posted @ Sat, Mar 2, 2013 9:22:10 pm EST from 76.2.70.200

Anonymous> Why are you asking others to pose questions for you? As long as your query is couched in civil language, then there's no reason why your question shouldn't go through and eventually be answered.

I think what you're referring to is a 2 year old interview that Jesse McCartney did around the time Young Justice premiered. Along with offering praise for Kid Flash and Jason Spisak's performance, he pointed out faults in the character's personality, which the creators intended. He used the word "douche-y" as a shorthand for "dorky and vainglorious" which Kid Flash was in the first season. In the second season, the character has matured a lot. McCartney also referred to his own character of Robin as "cocky" and "brash." Anyway, here's the interview to show he was not being disrespectful at all. See, I can provide a source. Not a bunch of unsourced innuendo.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=29590

Why would Greg Weisman try to inhibit his actors from voicing their opinions? Certainly most actors are mindful of what they say because of possible adverse consequences of working in the industry. However your request reminds of the one Maryland state rep Emmett C. Burns made when he requested to the owner of the Baltimore Ravens that he should try to curb the free speech rights of Brandon Ayanbadejo, a football player outspoken on gay rights.
Source
posted @ Sat, Mar 2, 2013 9:11:01 pm EST from 192.40.56.149

So you want someone to ask someone to ask other people if they could stop expressing their opinions?
Harlan Phoenix
posted @ Sat, Mar 2, 2013 8:52:01 pm EST from 76.2.70.200

... I meant mostly with the New 52, sorry if that wasn't clear, though everyone misses him a lot in YJ, too.
Anonymous
posted @ Sat, Mar 2, 2013 8:44:42 pm EST from 70.96.146.20

Would someone mind asking Greg to ask his actors to stop calling Wally a douche in interviews and on Twitter? I'd hope it's not meant in bad spirit, but it's starting to feel disrespectful to the character, and, frankly, often it shows.
I apologize if I seem rude, but Wally's had a very bad year and 3/4 ,and he deserves better.
Anonymous
posted @ Sat, Mar 2, 2013 8:13:20 pm EST from 70.96.146.20

Matt> Indeed, but I'm curious whether it's a penetrative clean or just a surface one. If not the former, deep-set stains could integrate into a garment without being removed. There are both advantages and disadvantages to each possibility. A penetrative clean allows for there to be no need for the washing of clothes. However, a surface-only clean would make dyes viable. After all, all dyes are is a thorough and complete stain that one wants to keep.

Of course, if the coloration can be thought of as "belonging" to the gargoyle immediately, it would likely be fine even with fully penetrative cleaning. In that case, experimentation with various colors for the attire might be capable over several days. "Let's see, let's try green for my loincloth tonight." (dyes and looks at the result) "...nah, don't like it." (goes to sleep wearing it and then wakes up to the original color) "Okay, how about indigo this time?"
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!
posted @ Sat, Mar 2, 2013 11:37:33 am EST from 174.101.230.22

Brainiac> Your thoughts about the Humility Spell/Stone Sleep cleaning not only a gargoyle's body, but their clothes as well are not speculation, they are a canon fact. When the Banshee transported Elisa, Goliath and Angela from the muddy bog to Cairn na Chullain, they were all covered in mud. When Elisa woke up, she was very dirty as were the sleeping Goliath and Angela. When they woke up, the mud was cast off along with their stone skin and their clothing was clean as well. I have to assume that any dirt or grime that gargoyles get covered in at night does not petrify at dawn and is thus cast off at sunset. I suppose due to the Humility Spell that if a gargoyle covered in mud really liked the mud and considered it part of their attire, it would turn to stone with them and remain on them when they awoke the next night. Weird, but true.
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Thats three down and two to go..." -Sevarius, "The Reckoning"
posted @ Sat, Mar 2, 2013 3:38:01 am EST from 99.92.109.252

@Chip - Ha! True that.
FTBM
posted @ Fri, Mar 1, 2013 10:07:26 pm EST from 74.115.160.221

FTMB>>Plenty of pigeons in New York.
Chip - [Sir_Griff723@yahoo.com]
I am Bad. And that's good. I will never be Good. And that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be, than me~~Bad Guy Affirmation
posted @ Fri, Mar 1, 2013 8:35:55 pm EST from 24.217.38.192

All this talk of what (may or may not be) coming out of them has got me curious as to what was going in - specifically during their time living in the clock tower. Was Elisa really able to afford to feed 6 gargoyles on her salary (b/c that would be a massive grocery bill) or were they getting a little dumpster-diving practice in there?
FTBM
posted @ Fri, Mar 1, 2013 8:34:17 pm EST from 74.115.160.221

Um, I never wanted to say that something is wrong with the show. oO I don't know where you get that from.... only because I'm sceptical? And the "other things" mentioned in my last long post have nothing to do with this topic here, they are pretty minor "cosmetic" things compared to this.
The genitals and internal organs of Gargs were never shown, so I can, of course, not prove what I think. I also doubt that Greg Weisman would ever make clear statements about that specific topic.
Comet
Double, double, toil and trouble. Fire burn and cauldron bubble.
posted @ Fri, Mar 1, 2013 8:33:57 pm EST from 80.187.110.144

When scientists in England first got sent platypus remains, they assumed them to be fakes. Because "A creature like that couldn't possibly exist in nature."

You continue to make assumptions that "things weren't depicted correctly" in the show. Despite the Real World actually having precedence proving that you are wrong and starting from faulty assumptions. Unless Greg says otherwise, assume what you see is accurate. Don't assume that something isn't "Depicted accurately". Because that's just you wanting prove that something is wrong with the show.
Chip - [Sir_Griff723@yahoo.com]
I am Bad. And that's good. I will never be Good. And that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be, than me~~Bad Guy Affirmation
posted @ Fri, Mar 1, 2013 8:29:43 pm EST from 24.217.38.192

Chip> What exactly does the platypus have to do with that?
Comet
Double, double, toil and trouble. Fire burn and cauldron bubble.
posted @ Fri, Mar 1, 2013 8:25:12 pm EST from 80.187.110.144

Comet>> The platypus cannot possibly be real! Someone obviously sewed a duck bill onto a beaver body, and not very well I might add.

Assume what you see is accurate, work backwards from there.
Chip - [Sir_Griff723@yahoo.com]
I am Bad. And that's good. I will never be Good. And that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be, than me~~Bad Guy Affirmation
posted @ Fri, Mar 1, 2013 8:21:36 pm EST from 24.217.38.192

Brainiac> Okay, then I will post this without spoiler tags too. Hopefully my English doesn't abandon me too much.

Well, it seems to me that Augustus wanted the Gargs to wear loincloths (and tops for females) so they were no longer naked when interacting with humans, but the clothes were usally ripped when the Gargs awakened, so the Humility Spell was cast. I know, "forced" is a strong word... he didn't want to have naked Gargs before his eyes, that's the point.

The human female breasts and male genitalia are believed to have evolved the way they look along with the upright walking (at least that is a theory) to be shown off. Other primates have less developed breasts and mostly "hidden" genitalia, but they are also walking on all fours a lot, more than Gargs probably. For example the butt is a strong signal for apes, since it is clearly visible better in the quadrupedal walk than the breasts would be (and human breasts are believed to take the role of the butt in the upright pose - of course everyone knows that the butt is still another strong signal for humans).
And since Garg females have breasts that look like these of humans it wouldn't be surprising if the males also had clearly visible genitalia.
Beasts on the other hand are fully quadrupedal and don't need these "signals" the same way upright walking Gargs do.
Possibility for me: either Gargs have no such developed breasts and that is depicted wrong, or they have visible external genitala too. I, personally, will go with the latter...
This means for Zafiro that his genitalia are indeed "hidden" due to the fact that his lower body has a totally different form than that of most other Gargs. I doubt that Augustus had wanted ("forced") Gargs of his type to wear loincloths too...

And I'm also sure that the stone sleep is not only healing but also cleaning, inside and outside, just like you said. But I will not go away from Gargs having the same digestive organs (and their capabilities) as other terrestrial vertebrates in addition to the effects of the stone sleep although they may usally play a minor role. (And the thought of stone skin as a form of Garg shit amuses me a lot, I had this thought before, but hesitated to put it into clear words)

Never said something was wrong, I'm just sceptical about the way some things were depicted.^^ There were a few (well, very few) other such things too, but they are not the main issue here.
Comet
Double, double, toil and trouble. Fire burn and cauldron bubble.
posted @ Fri, Mar 1, 2013 8:05:28 pm EST from 80.187.110.144

<<Of course, this would introduce a problem for Demona. I hope she invested in a washer/dryer and a bath/shower after Puck removed her stone sleep.>>

I'm sure her townhouse (which is NOT a manor, I hate the name Destine Manor!) came with all of those.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
"For every two dozen Phantom Menaces, there is a Return of the King. For every two-bit Shyamalan, a Stanley Kubrick is born. For every poor soul who groans during an Adam Sandler-funded Rob Schneider vehicle, there is a child crying life-affirming tears when Bambi's mom is shot. Somewhere out there, a film student is finding out what Rosebud means for the first time. A man is pausing as Fredo prays the Hail Mary on a boat over Lake Tahoe. A woman grasps her heart as Bogie's love flies off into the foggy night. All it takes is one moment to change a person. And that one moment... no matter how fleeting... is worth a thousand Transformers."
posted @ Fri, Mar 1, 2013 7:43:10 pm EST from 47.16.230.74

Chip, Comet> I'm not gonna spoiler. Scientific speculation should be open to the world!

Now then, Comet, you're operating through multiple assumptions that you really shouldn't be. Firstly, you're forgetting that there is an alternate method of expelling material in the case of something urgently toxic or poisonous...regurgitation. Granted, a full reversal from the intestinal tract back through the stomach may be a stretch, but I don't think it's entirely impossible. In fact, considering how gargate biology is likely geared more towards food as raw material rather than as a source of energy, they may be more sensitive to potential poisons and thus more likely to vomit such things back up before major digestion and the possibility of major issues can occur.

As far as diarrhea-causing agents, you're forgetting that stone sleep itself acts as a curative for most injuries and diseases. There are some viruses that might be able to slip through by utilizing their ability to insert into the DNA of a host cell, but overall, I think the likely of a major gastrointestinal incident like what you described is much more minimal that you may think. I'm not dismissing the possibility of a rapid-onset sort of food poisoning or gastrointestinal issue, but I tend to think such a thing would probably result in vomitus more than diarrhea and most likely be corrected in the subsequent stone sleep.

As to waste being stored under the skin, that's not what I was saying at all. What I said was that during stone sleep, waste material would be brought to the suface, much like sweating does for we humans. The waste could very well be stored in a bladder-like organ or some equivalent to the human colon and then slowly "flow" to the surface over the course of the day. Basically, gargoyles would have "bowel movements" that last several hours every day. Seems like that's sufficient time to me, especially if they have a highly-efficient digestive process on par with, say, chickens and certain other poultry (who ARE omnivorous, by the way). The waste isn't stored under the skin over the course of the night; it's simply "sealed" in a layer of dead epidermal (surface skin) tissue when it finally breaks off at sunset, kind of like the compressed outer coating of an owl pellet. Of course, a gargoyle that's had a major day of exertions may very well get "fragrant" as we humans do. It's quite possible they perspire as we do and thus could easily become "ripe" after a particularly exhaustive night.

As far as the need for humility, put it this way. Even if males are sheathed, they can still get excited, and such an event is typically not something that can be consciously controlled. Secondly, even if that didn't happen (and that's not an axiomatic assumption I would accept), females would still have visible "modesty" issues both above and below. It's also not as if certain human societies haven't put forth the need for covering other areas of their body purely out of a sense of decorum and propriety. I remember once hearing about a culture where the only part of another man's wife you were not allowed to see was her bare feet.

As to "forcing" gargoyles to adapt loincloths...I don't think you could "force" gargoyles to do anything. In the end, clothing is about more than just our modesty - it also allows for convenient storage (our pockets, Goliath's pouch), protection to sensitive areas (less of a concern for gargoyles, but not inconsiderable), a means of showing social standing (consider the stone pendants of the Mayan clan - a stretch, but there are possibilities there), and a form of personal adornment (as we all know, Demona does love her tiara). Regardless of what may or may not be visible on their bodies, I can see gargoyles that interacted with the Roman Empire deciding to wear clothing to "conform" to the standards of that culture. Augustus didn't order them to be clothed, he simply had his Magus (and all of his S&P cronies) craft a spell that would allow gargoyles to avoid being stripped whenever they awoke. To me, it sounds like they had already started wearing clothing of some fashion by that point and now it was just about logistics.

One thing I tend to think add credence to the idea of stone sleep being the primary means of waste removal is actually a possible side-benefit of the Humility Spell (so this one is magical instead of scientific - or rather, a side-effect of the magic's interaction with natural gargate biology). We never saw a washing machine in the Clock Tower. We never saw the clan washing their things. We never saw an incident where someone was advised to strip and get themselves and their clothing cleaned up (though that probably would have pushed things beyond even Adrienne Bello's allowances). I tend to think stone sleep also serves to clean the surface of a gargoyle's body just as it removes the (externally) petrified waste. As such, the enchantment's effect allows that cleansing to carry over onto their clothing as well, getting the night's associated grime, dirt, and perhaps even sweat out of and off of their attire. Of course, this would introduce a problem for Demona. I hope she invested in a washer/dryer and a bath/shower after Puck removed her stone sleep.

I think the issue here is you're trying to show at some point that the universe that's been created here is "wrong" in some way, that a mistake was made. For me, the only acceptable axiom I operate on is that, short of a direct admission that something was an error in writing/depiction/whatever, everything shown is accurate. Operating from the axiom that "the depiction is valid" I find leads to much more interesting sorts of thoughts on how such a physical form could be valid than in trying to show that it's not. After all, gargate physiology is inherently fictional, so where's the fun in saying it's impossible/nonsensical?
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!
posted @ Fri, Mar 1, 2013 7:26:41 pm EST from 174.101.230.22

It's Friday! It's after 5 PM (6 PM EST) and it's time to relax after a long work week. Click the link below, close your eyes for 1 minute and 1 second and enjoy the memories that appear in your head.

http://video.disney.com/watch/gargoyles-theme-song-4c2f263230dce840e619df87
Anthony Tini
posted @ Fri, Mar 1, 2013 6:06:30 pm EST from 50.29.205.45

Curious.
Harlan Phoenix
posted @ Fri, Mar 1, 2013 5:25:44 pm EST from 76.2.70.200

"We love Gargoyles and you should too" feels less like something Disney needs to tell us and more like something we need to tell Disney. I mean, does it get more ironic than THEM telling US that?

As for my thoughts on the Manhattan Clan's eggs, I suggested the Labyrinth Clan as possible culprits not because of anything with Talon and/or Xanatos, but because I wonder if the clones (possibly due to their growth acceleration) find themselves sterile and are driven to take the eggs out of a desire to have hatchlings of their own. Afterall, Greg didn't say that all the eggs were stolen neccesarily and I can see the Labyrinth Clan rationalizing that as genetic copies of the Manhattan Clan, they are entitled to some of the their offspring. Of course, The Manhattan Clan will not see it that way and I suspect that it will only increase the tension between the two clans.
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Thats three down and two to go..." -Sevarius, "The Reckoning"
posted @ Fri, Mar 1, 2013 4:35:29 pm EST from 99.92.109.252

Hmm...
"That Sneaky Villain (Who Actually-Spoiler Alert-Gives Up His Evil Ways)"
Are they referring to TGC or what?
Comet
Double, double, toil and trouble. Fire burn and cauldron bubble.
posted @ Fri, Mar 1, 2013 4:13:26 pm EST from 80.187.110.144

The official Disney blog has an entry titled "We Love Gargoyles And You Should Too"

http://blogs.disney.com/oh-my-disney/2013/03/01/we-love-gargoyles-and-you-should-too/?cmp=SMC|blgomd|OMDMarch|FB|Gargoyles-Gargoyles|InHouse|030113|text||esocialmedia|||
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
"For every two dozen Phantom Menaces, there is a Return of the King. For every two-bit Shyamalan, a Stanley Kubrick is born. For every poor soul who groans during an Adam Sandler-funded Rob Schneider vehicle, there is a child crying life-affirming tears when Bambi's mom is shot. Somewhere out there, a film student is finding out what Rosebud means for the first time. A man is pausing as Fredo prays the Hail Mary on a boat over Lake Tahoe. A woman grasps her heart as Bogie's love flies off into the foggy night. All it takes is one moment to change a person. And that one moment... no matter how fleeting... is worth a thousand Transformers."
posted @ Fri, Mar 1, 2013 3:56:01 pm EST from 47.16.230.74

Chip> [SPOILER] Well, I don't think Gargs are comparable to elephants and cows, they are no pure herbivores (more omnivorous, probably with a tendency to eat lots of meat), and they are definitely not ruminants. So I don't think these are good examples. XD A Gargoyle is probably eating quite similar stuff like a bear, but more actively hunting.

And if a Garg eats something that would lead to diarrhoea or such, it wouldn't be good if the species was depending on waste disposal through the stone skin only. Ouch! [/SPOILER]
Comet
Double, double, toil and trouble. Fire burn and cauldron bubble.
posted @ Fri, Mar 1, 2013 1:59:01 pm EST from 80.187.110.144

Comet>> [SPOILER] There are lots of digestive systems in the animal kingdom that take way longer than a day to operate. Elephants and cows come to mind. And the elephant digestive system isn't very efficient, since what comes out is almost pure undigested plant matter. The waste doesn't have to be held in their skin at night, when they are flesh. Just expelled during the day as part of the Stone Sleep process. Especially if their digestive system is one the MORE efficient ones in the animal kingdom. [/SPOILER]
Chip - [Sir_Griff723@yahoo.com]
I am Bad. And that's good. I will never be Good. And that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be, than me~~Bad Guy Affirmation
posted @ Fri, Mar 1, 2013 11:00:23 am EST from 24.217.38.192

[SPOILER] Sorry to bring up this topic again, but don't forget that there must have been a serious reason why Ceasar Augustus wanted the Gargoyles to not be nude whenever they awakened.^^ And there would have been no reason to force them to wear loincloths if nothing was visible between their legs.
Also, a Garg must have a full-functioning digestive system since the waste must go somewhere at night, and if it all was just stored in the skin until morning there would definitely be changes in the smell and appearance. And it must be possible to get rid of waste anytime necessary, not only when the sun comes up. Nights can be long. Gargoyles can be awake easily 12 hours, and much can happen in that time. [/SPOILER]

I'm sorry ^^
Comet
Double, double, toil and trouble. Fire burn and cauldron bubble.
posted @ Fri, Mar 1, 2013 9:52:35 am EST from 80.187.110.248

Masterdramon> "The potential to track the entire life cycle of a gargoyle in laboratory conditions (with his own special 'spin' on things) has got to make even Anton's mind boggle."

His mind wouldn't be the only one; I'd adore the opportunity myself (though I would never be as horrific and invasive as Anton would be).
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!
posted @ Fri, Mar 1, 2013 9:09:04 am EST from 137.183.232.27

Todd: While I want to avoid putting words in Matt's mouth, I can think of one possible reason: Talon's utter hatred of Xanatos.

Greg W. has indicated that there will be some tension between the two Clans over Goliath's decision to return to Castle Wyvern, and while he might concede that it's their right as adults to make the decision (even if he thinks it's a stupid one), I could see why he might see raising children under David's "auspices" in a much darker light.

Still, I think the most obvious culprit for the theft is Dr. Sevarius (or mercs working for him, at any rate). The potential to track the entire life cycle of a gargoyle in laboratory conditions (with his own special "spin" on things) has got to make even Anton's mind boggle.
Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
"Like a bridge over troubled water, I will lay me down..." - Simon and Garfunkel
posted @ Fri, Mar 1, 2013 8:59:36 am EST from 134.173.90.127

The Quarrymen would be the darkest possibility, since Castaway would undoubtedly destroy them to keep them from hatching. Demona wouldn't - but because she'd see them as a new generation of gargoyles whom she could hatch and indoctrinate. As for what the Labyrinth Clan's motives would be - I can't guess.
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are great finders
posted @ Fri, Mar 1, 2013 6:41:15 am EST from 108.226.1.5

Sorry for the double post, but I had to say that it is kind of sad that eggs were stolen only a few months after they were laid and placed in the rookery. Who would steal them? There are so many interesting possibilities. Demona? The Quarrymen? The Labyrinth Clan?
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Thats three down and two to go..." -Sevarius, "The Reckoning"
posted @ Fri, Mar 1, 2013 3:22:59 am EST from 99.92.109.252

Brainiac> Great thoughts! Some of it I had long believed, other things were new to me, but good stuff. Thanks for bringing a nice dose of hard science to the topic. I swear, one day we should co-author a book of Gargate Biology, Anatomy and Evolution.

Moving on... thanks Greg B for asking Greg about those dates! Best Gargoyles tidbits we've had in a long time.

I wonder if Brentwood has anything to do with the hostile takeover.

I'm very curious about the other egg(s) in the 2008 Manhattan Rookery and glad to hear there is more than one. Katana's third perhaps?

And nice to hear that Thailog will be giving the Clan trouble for at least twelve years from when we last left off.
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Thats three down and two to go..." -Sevarius, "The Reckoning"
posted @ Fri, Mar 1, 2013 3:11:53 am EST from 99.92.109.252

Harlan> Translate the more formal and clinical wordage into more "common" terminology and that discussion is figuratively and literally filthy. The formality is basically my scientific training at work.

Though I think most of the potential disgust is just in thinking all this stuff through as you read.
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!
posted @ Thu, Feb 28, 2013 10:07:49 pm EST from 174.101.230.22

It has come to this. We are here. The topic is how does Zafiro defecate.

Anyone else think Greg saw this, and that's why he was feeling generous? To put a stop to this!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsVgi8hoFFc

Sigh... Thailog reads the Wall Street Journal on the toilet while Shari stands with her back turned telling him the story of Baby's First Potty!
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
"For every two dozen Phantom Menaces, there is a Return of the King. For every two-bit Shyamalan, a Stanley Kubrick is born. For every poor soul who groans during an Adam Sandler-funded Rob Schneider vehicle, there is a child crying life-affirming tears when Bambi's mom is shot. Somewhere out there, a film student is finding out what Rosebud means for the first time. A man is pausing as Fredo prays the Hail Mary on a boat over Lake Tahoe. A woman grasps her heart as Bogie's love flies off into the foggy night. All it takes is one moment to change a person. And that one moment... no matter how fleeting... is worth a thousand Transformers."
posted @ Thu, Feb 28, 2013 10:01:09 pm EST from 47.16.230.74

I'm actually disappointed that's not nearly as mega-gross as warned.

Astute doodies all the same, friend!
Harlan Phoenix
posted @ Thu, Feb 28, 2013 9:58:10 pm EST from 76.2.70.200

Okay, but remember...you asked for it. (Also, I meant Algernon, not Chip. My bad.)

The first potential solution is that gargoyle excretion operates differently than the rest of the animal kingdom - namely, their residual stone skin. While shedding skin (cells) is hardly unique, the relative thickness of the residua (going by The Price and Hunter's Moon) is rather thick for that. There exists the possibility that solid waste may be excreted in a fashion similar to a method we mammals excrete liquid waste when necessary - sweating.

Sweat is formed mostly from the same components that make up urine (both are mostly water and urea and share certain minerals) and is excreted all over the body for cooling. Admittedly, humans are one of the few mammals that produce large quantities for the purpose of thermoregulative cooling (horses are another), but extrapolating from this and the otherwise unknown in the animal kingdom process of stone sleep, we can make some hypotheses.

If we accept that the amount of stone skin a gargoyle actually breaks off upon awakening is too high to be explained without them losing a significant quantity of mass nightly, then we need to explain why gargoyles shed as much as they do without significantly shrinking every night. Thermal energy absorption alone will not compensate for loss of mass.

Thus, we reach the first possibility - as a gargoyle sleeps, any physical waste is effectively forced out of the petrified form and brought to the surface where it is encased in a far thinner quantity of petrified epidermal-equivalent cells that are no longer capable of acting on the hormonal trigger to reawaken (basically, dead epidermal tissue). In other words, gargoyles take a dump every morning...and the stone skin we've seen Xanatos and Jon Canmore handle is, in effect, petrified gargoyle dung.

Personally, I rather like this idea. It makes some physical and biological sense and basically puts an amusing spin on picking up gargoyle skin in The Price and Hunter's Moon. Hopefully Xanatos and Canmore both washed their hands afterwards.

Given that Greg has said that gargoyles and humans are physically compatible in sexual matters, we can assume they likely have similar anatomy in that regard. As such, liquid waste is likely primarily excreted via the urethra as it is for us and many other animals. If gargoyles do have a full solid excretion system as we do, I see no reason why it would operate all that differently than our own.

Serpentine anatomy offers an issue, yes. Snakes have a cloaca, a single orifice that handles all waste expulsion, as do all known amphibians, birds, reptiles, and monotremes. However, snakes hardly "make a huge mess" every time they need to evacuate their bowels. Admittedly, a snake's digestion is very efficient, typically only leaving behind hair, feathers and claws and a minimum of waste material.

As to the issue of both liquid waste and copulation (a question you didn't put forth) it is likely Zafiro's intromittent organ handles both and is sheathed much like that of a horse and certain other male animals. Given the egg-laying nature of gargates, I tend to imagine the slightly lower temperature requirement of our own male reproductive organs doesn't apply to them and, as such, they get a little extra protection (lucky stiffs - pun intended). In addition, given the lack of external visibility on Zafiro, the beasts, and certain male tengu with very short attire, I doubt they have a baculum either.

As far as movement goes, serpentine motion is indeed rather unique. However, you're forgetting gargoyles have a natural tail. They likely have some unique musculature in their hindquarters that could easy translate into the various forms of undulatory locomotion used by snakes if everything was fused together as it appears to be with Zafiro. Indeed, certain snakes are known to have remnants of a pelvic girdle and vestigial hindlimbs/claws that are not visible externally; I very much doubt Zafiro would lack such internal physiology. There are also the arboreal gliding snakes of Southeast Asia - they can perform controlled glides for hundreds of feet and can even turn in midair. Sound familiar?

Now such fusion of the lower body has been known to happen in humans and you are correct, it is a disability - or more accurately, a nearly-always fatal congenital deformity. Sirenomelia (aka Mermaid Syndrome) results in the fusion of the legs together giving the appearance of a mermaid's tail as well as complicating development of the various tracts of the lower body (often resulting in a cloaca if anything at all is properly developed). The high death toll is however due to the kidney and bladder complications that almost always occur alongside this condition. However, it is not a genetic condition, but rather the result of a failure of normal vascular supply from the lower aorta in utero. Since we know the Zafiro of 2198 will also have this appearance and the "winged serpent" is fairly well established in Mesoamerican mythology, it's logical to think Zafiro's condition is the result of genetics rather than a physical complication. Even given the "chameleon genes" concept, this could be considered a stretch. After all, what possible evolutionary reason would there be to select for such a form?

However, that lack of selection for a genetic condition does not imply the presence of selection against it. Freckles and red hair, despite the oft-used error of the eventual "death" of those genes, will never really go away unless something strongly opposes its presence. At the moment, it's pretty much neutral in terms of selective pressures. As such, it just continues to exist. Zafiro's anatomy could also be a selectively neutral state (though a VERY impressive one, I will admit), especially if, as I mentioned earlier, gargates primarily excrete via the expulsion of stone skin. Given that assumption, there is one less tract needed in the lower body and thus a fusion would likely leave fewer (if any) complications.

In other words, as long as Zafiro's kidneys and bladder (or whatever the gargate equivalents to those organs are) would not be adversely affected relative to the more standard gargoyle physiology, I see no reason for physical coplications. As far as climbing, Zafiro does still have hands and a rather powerful-looking upper body. His tail can likely wrap and hold onto all manner of things. Indeed, snakes are known to "climb" up cliffs, mountains, trees, etc., not to mention move at a decent pace under their typical lateral undulation (roughly two body lengths per second - and Zafiro's body length is fairly large) with no more energy expenditure than running lizards of the same mass.

In summation, snakes can mate, breed, excrete, climb, and crawl without any issues and they aren't one of the Three Races. Why would you doubt Zafiro could do the same?
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!
posted @ Thu, Feb 28, 2013 9:29:01 pm EST from 174.101.230.22

Ahhh! so many new thoughts percolating! for starters, I sort of didn't expect Thailog to "last" that long...2009 makes me wonder if thats the "Clone Wars" which I would have thought, given the comics, would have come sooner. And if maybe that means he has been in control of Nightstone all this time. (I have basically no speculation with Lex, don't know here to start with that, but am desperate to see his storyline unfold).
FTBM
posted @ Thu, Feb 28, 2013 9:07:54 pm EST from 74.115.160.221

I was expecting a Demona tease also, but I'm not disappointed.

Here's hoping he gives us one some day. I know I'm greedy, but.... hey, aren't we all greedy for more info? ;)
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
"For every two dozen Phantom Menaces, there is a Return of the King. For every two-bit Shyamalan, a Stanley Kubrick is born. For every poor soul who groans during an Adam Sandler-funded Rob Schneider vehicle, there is a child crying life-affirming tears when Bambi's mom is shot. Somewhere out there, a film student is finding out what Rosebud means for the first time. A man is pausing as Fredo prays the Hail Mary on a boat over Lake Tahoe. A woman grasps her heart as Bogie's love flies off into the foggy night. All it takes is one moment to change a person. And that one moment... no matter how fleeting... is worth a thousand Transformers."
posted @ Thu, Feb 28, 2013 9:00:24 pm EST from 47.16.230.74

Gotta admit, knowing the pattern for these Gathering-themed CIT dates, I was almost expecting a Demona-tease for the 2009 event. Still, definitely cool to know Thailog's still causing someone grief d:

It's also interesting to think that Artus won't be the only Egg in the Manhattan rookery in 2008.
Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Thu, Feb 28, 2013 8:56:07 pm EST from 68.231.100.47

Er, wrong one...

ahem, Thank you, Greg!

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=17897
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
"For every two dozen Phantom Menaces, there is a Return of the King. For every two-bit Shyamalan, a Stanley Kubrick is born. For every poor soul who groans during an Adam Sandler-funded Rob Schneider vehicle, there is a child crying life-affirming tears when Bambi's mom is shot. Somewhere out there, a film student is finding out what Rosebud means for the first time. A man is pausing as Fredo prays the Hail Mary on a boat over Lake Tahoe. A woman grasps her heart as Bogie's love flies off into the foggy night. All it takes is one moment to change a person. And that one moment... no matter how fleeting... is worth a thousand Transformers."
posted @ Thu, Feb 28, 2013 8:20:49 pm EST from 47.16.230.74

Ahem, thank you so much, Greg!

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=17904
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
"For every two dozen Phantom Menaces, there is a Return of the King. For every two-bit Shyamalan, a Stanley Kubrick is born. For every poor soul who groans during an Adam Sandler-funded Rob Schneider vehicle, there is a child crying life-affirming tears when Bambi's mom is shot. Somewhere out there, a film student is finding out what Rosebud means for the first time. A man is pausing as Fredo prays the Hail Mary on a boat over Lake Tahoe. A woman grasps her heart as Bogie's love flies off into the foggy night. All it takes is one moment to change a person. And that one moment... no matter how fleeting... is worth a thousand Transformers."
posted @ Thu, Feb 28, 2013 8:17:51 pm EST from 47.16.230.74

Todd> haha. Can't completely blame them if that was their motivation.
Arlo
Gargoyles need not apply.
posted @ Thu, Feb 28, 2013 5:16:49 pm EST from 173.54.75.136

Brainiac> I will survive it, it interests me how you see it, so just post that stuff, but maybe(?) inside of spoiler tags.^^
Comet
Double, double, toil and trouble. Fire burn and cauldron bubble.
posted @ Thu, Feb 28, 2013 5:04:51 pm EST from 80.187.110.89

Chip, Comet, I can comment if you like. But I want you both to consider very carefully whether you actually WANT me to do so. Greg Weisman himself has chosen to leave bathroom functions alone as a matter of privacy.

Suffice it to say, I can get pretty heavily into the biology of the matter, so if you really want this discussion, I suggestion you avoid eating while reading any response I may make.
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!
posted @ Thu, Feb 28, 2013 4:58:11 pm EST from 137.183.232.27

COMET> Um... Brainiac, We need SCIENCE!!!
Algernon
posted @ Thu, Feb 28, 2013 4:34:46 pm EST from 86.40.159.166

This bothered me for a while now, I hope the question is not too inappropriate. It might be, but I mean, think about it....
So how does Zafiro (and other Gargs of his type) defecate without making a huge mess?

Other questions about this type of Garg:
How do they climb? Crawl? Or even move fast on the ground?

I know a real snake has no problem with all these things, but a snake is very different in biology and anatomy from a Garg.

To be honest, I have a hard time believing that they look exactly like they were depicted. When I think about it, this almost seems like they were disabled, this isn't meant insulting or something, but... I would expect a look like this more from a Child of Oberon (and we have New Olympians that look like this).
Comet
Double, double, toil and trouble. Fire burn and cauldron bubble.
posted @ Thu, Feb 28, 2013 4:26:38 pm EST from 80.187.110.89

@Battle Beast http://video.disney.com/shows/gargoyles-4ba34a5545c1259e961b9666
Anthony Tini
posted @ Thu, Feb 28, 2013 3:15:37 pm EST from 159.240.11.221

Arlo> It WAS released online...
Battle Beast - [Canada]
I did it! I watched all 485 Best picture nominees in 365 days!
posted @ Thu, Feb 28, 2013 12:55:17 pm EST from 137.186.192.203

Todd> HA!
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Thats three down and two to go..." -Sevarius, "The Reckoning"
posted @ Thu, Feb 28, 2013 11:26:05 am EST from 99.92.109.252

They probably just said that in the hopes that it would keep Jonny Modlin quiet for a while. :)
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are great finders
posted @ Thu, Feb 28, 2013 8:58:30 am EST from 108.226.1.5

I guess this is late to ask, but I take it the "tentative plans" to release S2V2 last Christmas never materialized, beyond posting the episodes online?
Arlo
Gargoyles need not apply.
posted @ Thu, Feb 28, 2013 6:23:25 am EST from 173.54.75.136

I had no idea that that double posted, I apologize.
Chip - [Sir_Griff723@yahoo.com]
I am Bad. And that's good. I will never be Good. And that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be, than me~~Bad Guy Affirmation
posted @ Wed, Feb 27, 2013 11:47:52 pm EST from 24.217.38.192

Paul> Who's to say what the Church's "Traditional" view on Gargoyles was way back when? As I pointed out--And yes, Todd makes a fair counterargument, but still--The commonly accepted idea behind architectural gargoyles is to scare away demons.

Which would fit in quite nicely with a pro-gargoyle stance. Especially if enough people in just the right positions understood the gargoyle protective nature.

"God made these protectors, to keep us safe at night. They are stone by day because the truly evil beings come out at night, not day"

Or something along those lines. Not saying I wouldn't be surprised if the Dark Ages Church took an anti-gargoyle stance. I'm just saying that it's more than plausible that a pro-gargoyle stance could have been the norm as well...For significant points in history. Such as, say, Macbeth's trip to Rome.
Chip - [Sir_Griff723@yahoo.com]
I am Bad. And that's good. I will never be Good. And that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be, than me~~Bad Guy Affirmation
posted @ Wed, Feb 27, 2013 7:39:43 pm EST from 24.217.38.192

Paul> Who's to say what the Church's "Traditional" view on Gargoyles was way back when? As I pointed out--And yes, Todd makes a fair counterargument, but still--The commonly accepted idea behind architectural gargoyles is to scare away demons.

Which would fit in quite nicely with a pro-gargoyle stance. Especially if enough people in just the right positions understood the gargoyle protective nature.

"God made these protectors, to keep us safe at night. They are stone by day because the truly evil beings come out at night, not day"

Or something along those lines. Not saying I wouldn't be surprised if the Dark Ages Church took an anti-gargoyle stance. I'm just saying that it's more than plausible that a pro-gargoyle stance could have been the norm as well...For significant points in history. Such as, say, Macbeth's trip to Rome.
Chip - [Sir_Griff723@yahoo.com]
I am Bad. And that's good. I will never be Good. And that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be, than me~~Bad Guy Affirmation
posted @ Wed, Feb 27, 2013 7:38:47 pm EST from 24.217.38.192

He was also dealing with political conflicts and wars on multiple fronts (to say nothing of the epic biatchfest that was the Great Schism - which is hilarious to read up on if you have the time) and probably would not have wanted to risk alienating solid allies right at that time (which would include Macbeth/Scotland).
FTBM
posted @ Wed, Feb 27, 2013 6:14:30 pm EST from 74.115.160.221

I was looking up popes on Wikipedia, and apparently the papacy was in kind of a mess during the 1040s.

But St. Leo IX was the pope in 1050, when Macbeth made his pilgrimage. And it looks like he favored traditional morality, which somehow suggests prejudice against gargoyles to me.
Paul - [nampahcfluap@yahoo.com]
posted @ Wed, Feb 27, 2013 6:02:31 pm EST from 24.14.51.26

CHIP> I suspect much the same myself. Heaven knows medieval Popes weren't anyway above playing politics when it suited their self-interest, with spiritual and doctrinal concerns often coming in at a distant second on their list of priorities.
Algernon
posted @ Wed, Feb 27, 2013 10:05:08 am EST from 109.125.45.136

On the other hand, some have pointed out that the architectural gargoyles were always on the outside of the church, and that their role might not have been as protectors, but as a warning to the congregation of "These are the creatures from Hell that will get you if you don't abandon your sins."
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are great finders
posted @ Wed, Feb 27, 2013 6:57:39 am EST from 108.226.1.5

Matt--I suspect that during the time periods when gargoyle existence was well known, the Church's position varied depending on the pope and the various political winds. Don't forget that "gargoyle" statues were common in the middle ages. Especially atop churches. (Think Notre Dame) So at SOME point, the church must have had a positive view of gargoyles. In fact, the very idea of a traditional gargoyle/grotesque statue is that it scares away demons. Just tossing it out there.
Chip - [Sir_Griff723@yahoo.com]
I am Bad. And that's good. I will never be Good. And that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be, than me~~Bad Guy Affirmation
posted @ Wed, Feb 27, 2013 5:36:45 am EST from 24.217.38.192

Among on the superstitious and irrational reasons why Duncan would want to destroy the gargoyles, alliances with them had enabled various kings ascend the throne, such as Kenneth II & Kenneth III and of course, later Macbeth.
Redhawk
posted @ Wed, Feb 27, 2013 4:22:49 am EST from 184.82.177.103

Yeah, I think Duncan had plenty of "good" reasons to want/need to destroy any gargoyles he came across, and several reasons have been pointed out that suffice. But I also think that he partially did it just out of convention. If someone discovered any stone gargoyles during the 1000s in Scotland, they probably always destroyed them.

As for the Church's view of them, I'd be very curious to know what the Pope had to say about Macbeth's alliance with them when Macbeth visited the Vatican during his reign.
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Thats three down and two to go..." -Sevarius, "The Reckoning"
posted @ Wed, Feb 27, 2013 4:00:00 am EST from 99.92.109.252

I forgot about Demona's raids against the humans in 1020 (and presumably before and after then). And come to think of it, the humans she attacked wore the same uniforms as Duncan's soldiers in 1040, so they were probably Duncan's soldiers too.
Paul - [nampahcfluap@yahoo.com]
posted @ Wed, Feb 27, 2013 3:24:14 am EST from 24.14.51.26

Considering how we act towards each other when differences come up, I don't think knowledge of gargoyles intelligence would be any kind of a cure-all. That's kind of what I liked about gargoyles, that rather than going much into issues caused by race, sexuality, religion or political differences, or just plain people being different, (and we had opportunities with that, considering the racial and eve to a lesser extent sexuality-mix of the main characters) that was all shown via the prism of the gargoyles themselves. "humans fear what they do not understand" and yes, often attack that which is different.

Then add the gargoyles' superior physical strength and those scary talons and suchforth....you'll have a pretty mixed bag of reactions, And think of the (possible) threat (or at least huge confusion) they represent to religious philosophy! What does it mean if they have souls too? I'd love to see how that gets addressed once the Gargs natures becomes well known. I'm sure the idea of them as being literal demons was an easy explanation for the phenomenon of their existence in the past at least. And speaking as a (somewhat former) Catholic who was raised to believe such entities exist, even now.

(I'd love to read a hypothetical Encyclical or Papal Bull addressing them actually, lol)
FTBM
posted @ Tue, Feb 26, 2013 8:30:46 pm EST from 74.115.160.221

While we know that (at least in present-day New York at the time of "The Journey") most humans aren't aware that the gargoyles are intelligent beings rather than mere wild animals, I wonder if some of those who know that gargoyles can indeed think and reason might find that disturbing, as a threat to humanity's uniqueness. (Makes you wonder how we'd respond if it turned out that we indeed weren't the only "sentient life forms" in the universe, whether by contact with extra-terrestrials or discovering another intelligent species on this planet.)
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are great finders
posted @ Tue, Feb 26, 2013 6:42:57 pm EST from 108.226.1.5

Also keep in mind that Maol Chalvim, who was Duncan's grandfather, did not have that high an opinion of gargoyles even back before Constantine overthrew his father.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
"For every two dozen Phantom Menaces, there is a Return of the King. For every two-bit Shyamalan, a Stanley Kubrick is born. For every poor soul who groans during an Adam Sandler-funded Rob Schneider vehicle, there is a child crying life-affirming tears when Bambi's mom is shot. Somewhere out there, a film student is finding out what Rosebud means for the first time. A man is pausing as Fredo prays the Hail Mary on a boat over Lake Tahoe. A woman grasps her heart as Bogie's love flies off into the foggy night. All it takes is one moment to change a person. And that one moment... no matter how fleeting... is worth a thousand Transformers."
posted @ Tue, Feb 26, 2013 4:03:33 pm EST from 47.16.230.74

SomeGeek> The raids of Demona's Clan were not the reason for Gargoyles being killed and hated. This was a far older problem which only came to a record high around this time.

And it may not even be as completely ridiculous as it seems - there may have been a time when Gargoyles were very dangerous for humans, and humans may have some kind of instinctual fear of Gargoyles, still feeling the old threat.
Comet
Double, double, toil and trouble. Fire burn and cauldron bubble.
posted @ Tue, Feb 26, 2013 4:03:20 pm EST from 80.187.110.23

Paul> (building off of Algernon's comment) prior to Duncan finding the gargoyles in the caves, keep in mind the flashbacks that show how gargoyle-human relationship had declined since Wyvern masacre because the gargoyles were basically becoming scavanging animals (they showed gargoyles raiding various farmhouses and storage sheds --- and when demona did it, she didn't just do it like an animal but with a vindictive mind that killed any guards that got in her way). So the humans would have thought of them as dangerous rodents to be exterminated.
at least that is my take on it.
SomeGeek
http://www.squidoo.com/thegeeklens-cartoons
posted @ Tue, Feb 26, 2013 3:54:01 pm EST from 69.255.208.193

Personally, I find it telling not that Duncan wanted to smash Demona's clan but that he seemed genuinely shocked that Macbeth didn't. That and Mac's comment that "there was once a time when humans and gargoyles fought side by side" makes me think that human-gargoyle relations in Scotland had been in a pretty steep decline since the days of Wyvern.
Algernon
posted @ Tue, Feb 26, 2013 3:36:53 pm EST from 86.42.114.52

PAUL> Why did Hitler want to kill Jews?
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
"For every two dozen Phantom Menaces, there is a Return of the King. For every two-bit Shyamalan, a Stanley Kubrick is born. For every poor soul who groans during an Adam Sandler-funded Rob Schneider vehicle, there is a child crying life-affirming tears when Bambi's mom is shot. Somewhere out there, a film student is finding out what Rosebud means for the first time. A man is pausing as Fredo prays the Hail Mary on a boat over Lake Tahoe. A woman grasps her heart as Bogie's love flies off into the foggy night. All it takes is one moment to change a person. And that one moment... no matter how fleeting... is worth a thousand Transformers."
posted @ Tue, Feb 26, 2013 12:25:10 pm EST from 47.16.230.74

Duncan was pretty villainous from the start and would have hated anything he couldn't control (which would definitely include any gargoyles, not just Demona, who I doubt he knew or identified as a particular individual.) Gargoyle clans were, had been getting destroyed all over Scotland (and England, and from what we know most of the rest of the world) for ages - people in general hated and feared them. I'm sure D's little raiding parties didn't help, but unlikely would have made a difference to Ducan's type either way.
FTBM
posted @ Tue, Feb 26, 2013 8:18:51 am EST from 74.115.160.221

Why did Duncan want to kill Demona the first time he saw her? The way he shouted "Gargoyles!" implies that he didn't like them, but where would this dislike come from?

He did have Gillecomgain working for him, so it's possible that Gillecomgain's hatred of gargoyles may have rubbed off on Duncan, but I don't think they ever talked about gargoyles. Even when Gillecomgain reported Findlaech's death to Duncan, for example, he didn't mention that a gargoyle had intervened and stopped him from killing Macbeth; he just said "He lives."

Duncan also may have had a grudge against Demona in particular for her involvement in Gillecomgain's death or her connection to Macbeth, but there was no evidence of the former, and Duncan only learned about the latter after Macbeth asked him to spare her.
Paul - [nampahcfluap@yahoo.com]
posted @ Tue, Feb 26, 2013 6:11:32 am EST from 24.14.51.26

As long as we're talking Oscars. I didn't see any of the animated movies nominated, nor do I particularly care to. I don't know why, I love animation on television, but animated movies (especially after the Disney renaissance) kind of leave me cold. I admit to not being a Pixar fan... and I have no idea why. I wish I was, I want to be, I thought "Up" was fantastic, but... I don't know.

That being said, I was a little surprised at how Best Picture went. "Argo" is a terrific movie, but it wouldn't have been my pick for Best Picture. Personally, I would have voted for "Zero Dark Thirty." I know it didn't win because there is this mistaken belief that it promoted torture, when it really did no such thing. It depicted what happened, and then let us decide how we felt. Personally, I thought the scenes in question were nauseatingly difficult to watch, they were horrific. In that sense, the film moved me, and I thought it was very powerful. As was the raid on Osama bin Laden's compound.

I loved "Django Unchained" but I didn't expect it to have a prayer of winning. Was very happy my man, Quentin, brought home best screenplay though.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
"For every two dozen Phantom Menaces, there is a Return of the King. For every two-bit Shyamalan, a Stanley Kubrick is born. For every poor soul who groans during an Adam Sandler-funded Rob Schneider vehicle, there is a child crying life-affirming tears when Bambi's mom is shot. Somewhere out there, a film student is finding out what Rosebud means for the first time. A man is pausing as Fredo prays the Hail Mary on a boat over Lake Tahoe. A woman grasps her heart as Bogie's love flies off into the foggy night. All it takes is one moment to change a person. And that one moment... no matter how fleeting... is worth a thousand Transformers."
posted @ Mon, Feb 25, 2013 10:25:32 pm EST from 47.16.230.74

Battle Beast: "Chick flick" definitely isn't how I'd describe "Brave." Indeed, I thought the strong mother-daughter relationship was the strongest element of the film's story.

No, my issues with "Brave" are with various plotting and pacing issues. Merida's little brothers, in particular, I thought were utterly extraneous. They didn't make me laugh and they accomplish nothing plot-wise by [SPOILER] turning briefly into bear cubs. [/SPOILER] The latter struck me as little more than a transparent attempt to market toys.

But I loved the atmosphere, I loved the music, and I thought the villain was an animated marvel. And again, I liked the exploration of the mother-daughter relationship a lot, particularly in that neither was completely in the right and both needed to learn from each other to grow.

Still, compared with the extremely tight and thought-provoking plot of "Wreck-It Ralph," there is (for me at least) no comparison.
Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
"Like a bridge over troubled water, I will lay me down..." - Simon and Garfunkel
posted @ Mon, Feb 25, 2013 9:51:11 pm EST from 134.173.90.127

I wanted Lincoln to win. Brave, to me, was a chick flick. Mom and daughter. Good film, wonderful animation, but Wreck-It-Ralph was, as stated, superior.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
I did it! I watched all 485 Best picture nominees in 365 days!
posted @ Mon, Feb 25, 2013 9:21:34 pm EST from 137.186.192.203

She was willing to go back during Vows, (even though that was partly in an attempt to prevent the massacre) - and since she probably was on some level looking forward to reuniting with Goliath and co, I could see her going along to keep an eye on things...but on the other hand, that would probably require that she be asleep in stone in Xanatos's presence at some point during the trip, and I could as easily see her refusing to put herself in a vulnerable position like that, and just trusting that Xanatos really wanted his own garg clan enough to keep anything from happening to them for the time being.
FTBM
posted @ Mon, Feb 25, 2013 8:41:34 pm EST from 74.115.160.221

TODD> In this case, I can see her going. There's reason and purpose, and it's part of her latest plot. More than enough to keep her mind off lingering guilt.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
"For every two dozen Phantom Menaces, there is a Return of the King. For every two-bit Shyamalan, a Stanley Kubrick is born. For every poor soul who groans during an Adam Sandler-funded Rob Schneider vehicle, there is a child crying life-affirming tears when Bambi's mom is shot. Somewhere out there, a film student is finding out what Rosebud means for the first time. A man is pausing as Fredo prays the Hail Mary on a boat over Lake Tahoe. A woman grasps her heart as Bogie's love flies off into the foggy night. All it takes is one moment to change a person. And that one moment... no matter how fleeting... is worth a thousand Transformers."
posted @ Mon, Feb 25, 2013 6:58:56 pm EST from 47.16.230.74

Something I wondered recently. When Xanatos and Owen visited Castle Wyvern in Scotland to inspect it, before Xanatos bought it, did Demona go to Scotland with them? We don't see her with them, but of course that scene took place in the daytime (not to mention that they didn't want to give away her survival that early in "Awakening").

In light of how suspicious and distrustful Demona is, she might have decided to accompany Xanatos to Castle Wyvern to keep an eye on things and make certain that they went the way she wanted them to. On the other hand, the site had bad memories for her - the slaughter of almost her entire clan, AND she was partly responsible for it, but can't bring herself to face the fact and does everything she can to avoid it (including trying to wipe out the human race as part of blaming them for her troubles). Perhaps she was afraid to go back, subconsciously fearing that doing so might mean having to admit her guilt.
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are great finders
posted @ Mon, Feb 25, 2013 6:57:00 pm EST from 108.226.1.5

I also wanted "Wreck It Ralph" to win. Don't get me wrong, "Brave" was very good, but I thought "Wreck It Ralph" was the better movie. I guess the Mother-Daughter relationship spoke more to the Academy than the message of Self-Acceptance.

I'm glad "Paperman" won as it was the best of the animated shorts in my opinion.

I didn't think "Curfew" was the best live action short. I really enjoyed "Death of a Shadow" and thought that should have won.

Other than that, I was happy with the other winners save for the Best Picture winner. "Argo" was good, but not Best Picture worthy. But I haven't agreed with the Academy on Best Picture since "The Departed".
Anthony Tini
posted @ Mon, Feb 25, 2013 10:44:56 am EST from 159.240.11.221

Ten!
Ross
"Oh villain! Villain! Smiling cursed villain! That one might smile and smile, and be a villain! Gooo VILLAIN! Whooooo! Yeah!" -- Sally Avril
posted @ Mon, Feb 25, 2013 10:13:17 am EST from 147.226.226.99

Shari.
Comet
Double, double, toil and trouble. Fire burn and cauldron bubble.
posted @ Mon, Feb 25, 2013 9:46:31 am EST from 80.187.111.169

It's still going? Well, 8.
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
posted @ Mon, Feb 25, 2013 9:39:00 am EST from 76.73.252.180

All Lucky Sevens!
Brainiac - [OSUBrianiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!
posted @ Mon, Feb 25, 2013 8:51:25 am EST from 137.183.232.27

Supermorff: It was the only category I even remotely cared about this year. In several years, actually.

I mean, I liked "Brave" and all. But I felt "Wreck-It Ralph" was clearly the superior film in just about every way.

Still, I guess I can't be too broken up about it...simply by virtue of not having gotten my hopes too high in the first place.
Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
"Like a bridge over troubled water, I will lay me down..." - Simon and Garfunkel
posted @ Mon, Feb 25, 2013 6:03:29 am EST from 134.173.90.127

Masterdramon> You too, huh?
Supermorff
posted @ Mon, Feb 25, 2013 5:54:19 am EST from 62.25.109.195

Well, looks my dreams of an Academy Award being earned by a movie featuring Sonic the Hedgehog have been dashed...

Ah well.

Sixth, in any event.
Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
"Like a bridge over troubled water, I will lay me down..." - Simon and Garfunkel
posted @ Mon, Feb 25, 2013 5:17:49 am EST from 134.173.90.127

Fifth
Supermorff
posted @ Mon, Feb 25, 2013 3:32:42 am EST from 109.150.241.44

Fourth!
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Thats three down and two to go..." -Sevarius, "The Reckoning"
posted @ Mon, Feb 25, 2013 3:30:28 am EST from 99.92.109.252

Zero Dark THIRD-y
Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Mon, Feb 25, 2013 12:28:40 am EST from 68.231.100.47

(2nd)Second!!
Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]
posted @ Mon, Feb 25, 2013 12:16:03 am EST from 99.156.197.14

Argo **** yourself!
Anthony Tini
posted @ Mon, Feb 25, 2013 12:00:26 am EST from 50.29.205.45