Not sure if it's just sending links in general or if it's just the online shops, but I was trying to provide links to Amazon and Ebay sections containing the DVDs and Comics, only to get a message:

Lions are eating the server!
Antiyonder
posted @ Sun, Aug 4, 2013 5:53:26 pm EDT from 192.182.145.138

jdbronx85> Best way to convince Disney to continue the series in any form is to support the DVDs and the comics.
Antiyonder
posted @ Sun, Aug 4, 2013 5:44:27 am EDT from 192.182.145.138

Hey I'm new to this and maybe its been asked (probably) but is there any word on a new GARGOYLES series? Greg has plenty of successful credits to his named since GARGOYLES, a new cartoon series, if done right, could lead to disney making a live action movie (Cote De Pablo for Elisa!), plus more gargoyles tv in general. Just wondering
jdbronx85 - [jdhwriter5000 at yahoo dot com]
jdbronx85
posted @ Sat, Aug 3, 2013 11:33:43 pm EDT from 50.101.66.97

Patrick> The people I've spoken to say that the five total is for non-exclusive items only. In other words, I could get two more copies of a disc available by other means, but NOT S2V2 or any other DMC exclusives.

Needless to say, I've given them a piece of my mind. Twice.
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!
posted @ Sat, Aug 3, 2013 11:46:13 am EDT from 174.101.230.22

I got three copies of S2V2 from DMC and they've cancelled any copies I've tried to order with other things without a word. The printed guide to the club that they send out with first orders says club members are limited to three copies of any one title through special offers and five copies total for life of the membership. I have not tried ordering copies separately at full price, I went to eBay for that since the shipping was free. Those of you who've managed to get multiple orders of three are apparently very lucky at getting past whoever is in charge of reviewing orders.
Patrick
"There are several sacred things in this world that you don't EVER mess with. One of them happens to be another man's fries!" - Keith David, "Men at Work"
posted @ Sat, Aug 3, 2013 10:56:06 am EDT from 76.190.238.187

I wonder if that means that "Ask Greg" won't open again until November. (Though Greg still has a long queue of questions to get through, so that might be a good thing.)
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are great finders
posted @ Sat, Aug 3, 2013 6:51:40 am EDT from 108.226.1.5

Two delays on Legacy?

It really is part of the Young Justice brand!
Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"Living in the limelight, the universal dream..." - Rush
posted @ Fri, Aug 2, 2013 9:52:51 pm EDT from 66.91.223.104

Well, I can't say I'm surprised by this. Let's just hope they don't slide out of the holiday season.

http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/2013/08/upcoming-young-justice-legacy-video-game-pushed-back-to-november-2013/

I imagine the official website and Facebook page will update shortly.
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!
posted @ Fri, Aug 2, 2013 9:34:03 pm EDT from 174.101.230.22

"they need a gargoyles, the next generation! and go by the ways of the Avatar and Legend of Korra route!"

Facebook has spoken, Disney.
Harlan Phoenix
posted @ Fri, Aug 2, 2013 9:20:20 pm EDT from 76.2.66.79

I don't know why, but this made me laugh:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=552283291499807&set=a.432146610180143.98233.381238428604295&type=1&theater

lol
Neill - [neillgargoyle(a)gmail dot com]
posted @ Fri, Aug 2, 2013 6:53:23 pm EDT from 95.91.253.21

So i just got my SECOND three copies of Season 2 Volume 2 from DMC (They had sent me three copies of Herbie Rides Again GRRR)...

I will try again in the future.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
I did it! I watched all 485 Best picture nominees in 365 days!
posted @ Fri, Aug 2, 2013 3:14:34 pm EDT from 75.159.21.195

Audra, best of luck... I tried it with one DVD, and they just kicked out the rest of my order and sent that DVD. Bummer, since they're running a good sale..
B! - [prplbeedoo at yahoo dot com]
Is it schitzoid paranoia or just existential blues?
posted @ Fri, Aug 2, 2013 7:26:07 am EDT from 213.93.186.25

Hello, everybody! I'm a Gargoyles fan from way back, though I haven't actually seen the show as an adult. Finding myself with some time on my hands, I set myself a project - revisit the show by watching and recapping each episode. While I certainly don't promise anything in the way of brilliant or original thought, I'd love to get the feedback of other Gargoyles fans. So if anyone if willing to take the time to read my rambling, I've just posted my recap of "Awakening, Part I" - http://ramblingsofpicturebox.blogspot.com Thank you!
Melissa
posted @ Fri, Aug 2, 2013 1:28:04 am EDT from 184.6.105.167

Ok so I just made an order at DMC, for a bunch of movies, I got 4 blu-rays, plus three copies of Gargoyles S2V2. So I will see if they send Gargoyles this time, since I have already bought my three copies back when they first came out. They have canceled second orders in the past, but those orders had Gargoyles only. Now I have four other blu-rays in this order, so I will see what happens...
Audra - [birdygirl85 at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Thu, Aug 1, 2013 10:11:15 pm EDT from 68.186.20.116

Todd: I suspect Battle Beast has it right-that possibly either the audio from your DVD player to your TV is not connected properly OR possibly your TV has some additional audio settings that could affect the sound. Some have presets or their own "Surround" effects that could cause issues like this. It's worth checking to make sure your TV is set to standard stereo audio.
The only exception is if you have an external surround sound system of some sort-then we're dealing with a whole kettle of fish.
Wingless
posted @ Thu, Aug 1, 2013 8:17:00 pm EDT from 99.246.18.21

How is the DVD's doing for Gargoyles Season 1 and Season 2, Volume 1? How is Gargoyles Season 2, Volume 2 doing on DVD and is it selling very well? Will Gargoyles Season 2, Volume 2 ever be released on DVD in retail and also retail stores?
Jonny Modlin - [jmodlin210 at gmail dot com]
Jonny Modlin
posted @ Thu, Aug 1, 2013 7:30:23 pm EDT from 71.192.166.52

Just a few years old; I got it around 2008 or 2009. But I had suspected that the problem lay in the television or its connections rather than in the DVD itself.

Thanks to everyone who offered answers.
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are great finders
posted @ Thu, Aug 1, 2013 7:16:26 pm EDT from 108.226.1.5

Yeah, the line is definitely still there. How old is your TV, Todd?
Greg Bishansky
Here's the problem with most fanfic writers: they seem to think Dominique is a second life. It isn't. Demona spelled it plainly in "High Noon." She's a gargoyle. Dominique is just a tool to help her in her goals. She'll use the form because she changes into a human, whether she likes it or not, but Dominique is not another life for her.
posted @ Thu, Aug 1, 2013 6:56:37 pm EDT from 67.189.178.253

Todd> I checked my DVD and the line is there. However, it only comes across on one side of the audio channel; Right in my Case, so your DVD player to TV hook-up may not be getting the full audio.

I assure you, the line is there.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
I did it! I watched all 485 Best picture nominees in 365 days!
posted @ Thu, Aug 1, 2013 6:53:18 pm EDT from 75.159.21.195

Has anyone else been unable to hear the "off-stage voices" on the "Gargoyles" DVD (the most recent case I noticed was Goliath's "I cannot allow that line" when he enters the hotel window in "Sentinel")? Apparently they don't function on my DVD player (one of the extremely few cases where my old "Gargoyles" videotapes have the advantage over the DVD).
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are great finders
posted @ Thu, Aug 1, 2013 6:20:23 pm EDT from 108.226.1.5

@Adam, on eBay alone, completed listings only (ignoring the current active one) the Disney Movie Store has sold 526 copies of S2V2.


List date -- End date -- Copies sold
7/26/2013 -- 7/26/2013 -- 2
7/22/2013 -- 7/23/2013 -- 17
7/21/2013 -- 7/22/2013 -- 12
7/20/2013 -- 7/21/2013 -- 47
7/16/2013 -- 7/18/2013 -- 50
7/12/2013 -- 7/15/2013 -- 100
7/11/2013 -- 7/11/2013 -- 32
7/4/2013 -- 7/7/2013 -- 50
7/2/2013 -- 7/4/2013 -- 50
7/1/2013 -- 7/2/2013 -- 166
Anthony Tini
posted @ Thu, Aug 1, 2013 7:58:19 am EDT from 159.240.11.216

Does anyone have any idea how many copies of S2V2 have sold? Or how many S1 and S2V1 sold?
Adam - [carl006_1999 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Wed, Jul 31, 2013 9:19:45 pm EDT from 76.113.172.81

"161 sold in 24 hours" says Disney's Ebay store about GS2V2.
Anonymous
posted @ Wed, Jul 31, 2013 1:44:24 pm EDT from 84.248.239.5

DMC hasn't been too bad... especially given how much of my VHS collection I'm still trying to convert... this just gave me an excuse to buy a lot of movies at once. ;p I DID get 6 copies out of them, but now they're onto me and cancelled my past 2 orders. :P Grabbed 4 last night from the eBay shop to fulfill obligations.

I can probably still take requests for overseas folks up until the middle of August.
B! - [prplbeedoo at yahoo dot com]
Is it schitzoid paranoia or just existential blues?
posted @ Wed, Jul 31, 2013 8:08:15 am EDT from 213.93.186.25

Me too. Fantastic alternative to joining the DMC, in my opinion. I'm grateful for the eBay option.
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" - Sevarius, "Louse"
posted @ Wed, Jul 31, 2013 3:22:35 am EDT from 99.92.109.252

No, that's the Disney Movie Shop on ebay. That's where I ordered my copies.
Greg Bishansky
Here's the problem with most fanfic writers: they seem to think Dominique is a second life. It isn't. Demona spelled it plainly in "High Noon." She's a gargoyle. Dominique is just a tool to help her in her goals. She'll use the form because she changes into a human, whether she likes it or not, but Dominique is not another life for her.
posted @ Tue, Jul 30, 2013 7:36:47 pm EDT from 67.189.178.253

Try Youtube. That is most likely a bootleg copy someone made.
Vinnie - [tpeano29 at hotmail dot com]
Mark Twain: "Don't argue with stupid people. They'll take you down to their level and beat you with experience."
posted @ Tue, Jul 30, 2013 7:34:43 pm EDT from 108.85.215.53

Hi,

I just wanted to share this here.... I just ordered my copy of Gargoyles S2P2 and found it for a REALLY fair price. Just wanted to share with you Greg and also fans of this show.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=271244940701
Gregg - [wolfpack7119 at aol dot com]
posted @ Tue, Jul 30, 2013 7:20:53 pm EDT from 71.238.207.112

KingCobra>"It was just a very loose comparison, in the sense of being a reboot without having the person that helped make it what it was. I wanted to make a metaphorical comparison to a rebooted property and 'Nightmare' was just what came to mind. That's all I meant."

And my point was that animation is pretty lousy (as in plentiful) with people who actually put care into remakes and reboots, so the comparison you made makes no real sense.

It's like a friend of mine who cringed at the thought of the American Being Human remake but got SUPER EXCITED by the U.K. Law and Order remake (CUZ AMURICA DUMMMM). Talking about reboots is genuinely terrible because everyone who talks about them is full of so many intrinsic biases that it's genuinely impossible to hear any given smart thing about them.

With how many remakes in TV animation are actually done with care, the immediate assertion of "Well, it'd be okay if you turned your brain off" makes no sense. There's an INCREDIBLE chance that a Gargoyles reboot would work just fine.
Harlan Phoenix
posted @ Tue, Jul 30, 2013 4:35:51 pm EDT from 76.2.66.79

https://freehakz.com/minecraft/?ref=7b0517
Anonymous
posted @ Tue, Jul 30, 2013 3:49:12 pm EDT from 81.103.16.123

What if they they left it open if it's a reboot or not? For example: Disney makes a completely new Gargoyles movie set in a different country and in today's time. The Gargoyles there could basically have the same problems the manhattan clan has afer hunter's moon. And when the movie was a success and you have your good (or bad) ending and that one Gargoyles glides away in the dark. Well then... Disney could still choose to make a sequel to that movie or an animated series and maybe that Gargoyle then meets our big purple one... or even that angry redhead. Greg could certainly adapt to that, as long as the movie isn't as harmful as TGC.
Neill - [neillgargoyle(a)gmail dot com]
posted @ Tue, Jul 30, 2013 3:04:25 pm EDT from 95.91.253.18

Harlan> It was just a very loose comparison, in the sense of being a reboot without having the person that helped make it what it was. I wanted to make a metaphorical comparison to a rebooted property and 'Nightmare' was just what came to mind. That's all I meant.
KingCobra582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
posted @ Tue, Jul 30, 2013 11:29:40 am EDT from 99.177.172.109

Sorry for the double post, but I might add that, if we're talking about "continuity re-writing", then the Goliath Chronicles and the Marvel Comics treatment of "Gargoyles" are irrelevant to the discussion. Both were intended as being set in the same continuity as the animated series, not in a separate Gargoyles Universe as different from the one that began in "Awakening" as, say, the Earth-16 of "Young Justice" from the world of "Batman: TAS" or the world of the 2003 "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" series from the late 80's/90's "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" series.
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are great finders
posted @ Tue, Jul 30, 2013 7:59:54 am EDT from 108.226.1.5

I still think that the biggest problem with starting over with a new continuity is that it would defeat one of the main reasons why we want to see "Gargoyles" return: to see the story-threads begun in the first two seasons and "Clan-Building" continue, to offer solutions (at least partial) to the unanswered questions, and so on. In a "new continuity" series, set in a universe where the events from "Awakening" to"Hunter's Moon" to "Clan-Building" had never taken place, that couldn't happen.

If the only way to get "Gargoyles" back would be by such a "rewritten continuity" approach, it would make better sense just to make it an entirely different animated adventure series, complete with a different title.
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are great finders
posted @ Tue, Jul 30, 2013 7:54:32 am EDT from 108.226.1.5

And now I too purchased Gargoyles Season 2 Volume 2. Going to go for Talespin next.
Antiyonder
posted @ Tue, Jul 30, 2013 1:31:43 am EDT from 68.113.7.254

That's a very good argument, Harlan. I can't really argue against it. As for the scenario where Gargoyles exploded into that universe as originally planned, who knows? All we can do is speculate.

Okay, is it impossible for a reboot of "Gargoyles" by a different creative team to be good? No. Do I want it? Hell no. Now, I hate the GeeWun mentality from the Transformers fandom as much as anyone, but the most I can say to not be a hypocrite is that I would not watch a reboot without Greg because I have no interest in it, quality or no quality... just as I have no doubt that "Breaking Bad" is a well made, well produced show, but I have no interest in it.
Greg Bishansky
Here's the problem with most fanfic writers: they seem to think Dominique is a second life. It isn't. Demona spelled it plainly in "High Noon." She's a gargoyle. Dominique is just a tool to help her in her goals. She'll use the form because she changes into a human, whether she likes it or not, but Dominique is not another life for her.
posted @ Tue, Jul 30, 2013 12:18:09 am EDT from 67.189.178.253

KingCobra>"A 'Gargoyles' without Weisman would be akin to that 'Nightmare On Elm Street' remake without Robert Englund: It'd be fine if you turned off your brain, and it would be obvious that at least SOME ATTEMPT at quality is there, but it still wouldn't be the same,"

But that's not really a fair argument. That's not even really an argument, as the decision to use Nightmare on Elm Street is a pretty loaded comparison. Because slasher remakes are iconically terrible, it's an easy comparison to make despite the idea of a "Gargoyles" reboot being floated...doesn't really have any parameters for the sake of an accurate discussion. How would it ACTUALLY be exactly like Nightmare on Elm Street?

Because if we're talking how cartoon reboots tend to go, most of those are treated with a lot of respect. The team behind Scooby Doo Mystery Incorporated, despite having much more intricate (and certainly more sophisticated) senses of storytelling, characterization, and irony than the original series actually researched the original development material for Scooby Do, Where Are You? even though, c'mon, how much of that could there possibly be and what would you even NEED? When Marty Isenberg developed Animated, he respected his fairly silly and unsophisticated G1 Transformers source material and, seeing the perpetual status quo of 80's action shows as indicative of the Cold War, built Animated around the dynamics of the War on Terror (which inadvertently made him a pretty fitting story editor on G.I. Joe Renegades). Kaijudo's the action follow up to a TV series so terrible that the American import had to be a completely reworked gag dub (complete with a Greg the Bunny cameo!), but the staff behind Kaijudo blended the Japanese original material with European design aesthetics, perfectly serviceable and enjoyable archetypal writing, and probably one of the better attempts at integrating its toy (well, card game) source with actual writing, world building, and context that doesn't even feel all that artificial. As much as TV animation is my favorite medium, it's filled to the brim with properties that probably DON'T deserve the respect they tend to get upon being revisited.

And to be fair, I'll cop to the weakness in my comparisons. These source materials, beyond the English dub of Duel Masters (which is still one of the better and definitely more surreal of animated comedies), aren't what most of us would call very good. And we'd agree Gargoyles is. But I see that going two ways. Just as there's a chance for a property being adapted to television to get a terrible head, there's more than enough precedent for a rebooted Gargoyles to get a perfectly competent head who could probably turn in some pretty fun seasons of television.

It'd be different, it wouldn't feel like Greg Weisman, but if you're insisting that Gargoyles is so complex that any other person couldn't come up with something interesting and compelling in its own right, I'd really like to take you up on that assumption. Gargoyles works on very tried and true, universal themes that're hardly unique to itself. It deals with strong archetypes that I wouldn't even say are necessarily uncommon. I could see plenty of writers providing takes on Goliath, Elisa, and the others that would probably be fairly compelling. I don't see them being the same as Weisman, on that you're correct, but I don't see them as falling flat just because they AREN'T Weisman.

Because, if we're really gonna play that game, Macbeth sounds more than a little shaky when just laid out on paper. Sure, he's a historical figure and all, but all anybody really cares about is the version as written as Shakespeare, which was also Weisman's original frame of reference for him. And in that context...you want to give Macbeth a LASER GUN? One of the most compelling figures in Shakespearean tragedy, who has urban legends and curses associated with his story, is going to fight CARTOON BATS? Oh, and don't get me started on the fact you're introducing him just to be the nemesis to this specific cartoon bad whose significance to him ranks beyond all the other characters in his actual story!

You can tell me all the Macbeth/Demona elements of their great dynamic and how they're thematically built both on their own terms AND in the terms of the literature plus how well they integrate into history. And you know, I'd agree with you! But that doesn't change the fact that a lot of Gargoyles could easily be spun to be inherently ridiculous and Macbeth, on the surface, would sound more than a little shaky to someone who loved the story of Macbeth but maybe wasn't so keen on the genre trappings of 90's animation. I mean, it's a testament to the show's quality that we don't mind Macbeth being in the same show as robot gargoyles, but that's still a really big leap from both the theatrical and historical source materials.

Weisman and his posse made it work, as was their sorcery. But to insist Weisman is the only authority of a work that bows to multiple authorities as a MISSION STATEMENT is an inherent fallacy. Again, if characters like Goliath and Xanatos, already inspired by tried and true archetypes, exist alongside Macbeth and Puck, what's the actual, genuine logic that because Weisman's take on highly archetypal source material is good, someone else's take on a source material that adheres to highly archetypal source material would be instantly bad?

And let me be clear, just to reiterate my view. Greg Weisman is my all time favorite writer. I have no interest in a non-Weisman Gargoyles production. Absolutely none. Likewise, there is no way a non-Weisman Gargoyles would feel like Greg Weisman's writing (though if Weisman got it back but lacked Michael Reaves, while also being under a different economic culture, I'd imagine it'd still feel different. A gargoyle never said "mate" until the comic book). The only thing I'm arguing, with absolutely no malice or even desire for this to be the case, is that there's no objective reason a non-Weisman Gargoyles would be inherently bad. There's no actual reason to assume that. There's not much reason to assume it'd be good because the argument involves no creative personnel, but in a VACUUM? No. There's no reason to assume it'd bad or even "it'd be like the Nightmare on Elm Street movie." WHY?! TV animation and mainstream film have pretty different creative cultures.

"and it would be hated by the fanbase."

Well, yeah.

Adam>"We have already seen Gargoyles without Weisman, and all know how that turned out. TGC and Marvel comic were disasters. "

But that argument is so bogus.

1. The Goliath Chronicles is a terrible show, yeah, but they didn't have the same context as a prepared reboot would have. With little continuity of production staff, going from syndication to network, and a reduction of budget there's no conceivable way you could even begin to compare someone trying to continue someone else's vision under completely terrible production circumstances to a team being handed a property Disney, in this context, would be making an efforted attempt to revive. The "Well, we know what happened last time with TGC" argument isn't a valid argument. The circumstances would be so different that the comparison would not only be impossible, but it'd fly in the face of countless factors.

Goliath Chronicles was a mirror universe WITCH. Whereas Greg Weisman picked up the slack from a show that had an executive mandate to change its entire M.O. halfway through development (or was it production?) and probably had a somewhat clearer path to follow than the original team did, Eric Lewald picked up an incredibly well developed mythology that required research to fully grasp but had neither the time nor resources to fully do so. To insist that such a circumstance is the exact same as being put onto a project 20+ years after the fact and having the whole of Disney's materials available is an intellectual dishonesty.

2. The Marvel Comic book was released when Gargoyles wasn't a source material that could be studied, but as a tie-in to a currently ongoing series that had (for the most part) different creative heads. That was Gargoyles in its days of board games and toys, e.i. when Gargoyles was an active brand and not when Gargoyles was something Disney banked a comic series on because it had a beloved mythology and auteur. The Marvel comic, thus, ALSO isn't a valid argument because you're implying someone having the entirety of Gargoyles as a source material for developing a new take on the material would have the same disconnect as someone trying to make stories for this new cartoon they're showing. The Marvel comic introduced characters before the show did, even! Even if Weisman consulted, Gargoyles was a brand but still BARELY an entity in terms of creativity and was still in the stages of actively being developed, animated, and written. The Marvel comics are a perfectly acceptable tangent for their time period regardless of their quality.

These two circumstances are so vastly different from an actual reboot that it crosses over to being completely incompatible with a vague hypothetical.

"Because so much of Gargoyles has come from Greg, I can't see anyone taking over and having the same quality of product. All the others I listed have had other people contribute to those products success and sometimes surpassed the originals."

Which is weird because, as the production of season 2 indicates...being a property like that was the plan. What if we go, briefly, into an alternate universe where all those Gargoyles spin offs we dream of happening...like, y'know, happened. Would we really be praising Weisman's writing when we look back on Bad Guys? Honestly? Probably not. Given Weisman's history as a development executive and how much coordinating those spin offs he ambitiously believed would all happen once upon a time would take, we'd probably talk about Gary Sperling's grasp on the moral ambiguity of the Redemption Squad the same way it's so easy to talk so much about Tim Minear, rather than Joss Whedon, when discussing the beige Angel of Angel season 2. We'd probably be talking about how, yeah, Weisman's powerful coordinating as an super editor-in-chief is what keeps all these things together but let's pimp out Michael Reaves for that STIRRING, CHILLING resolution to the Space Spawn conflict (and his guest episode on Timedancer wasn't half bad!) While we're at it, isn't it great that Gargoyles was used to be able to give Bob Kline's action cartoon concept, a premise too ahead of its time, the push it needed to finally get that greenlight. I couldn't imagine my childhood without Terry and Sphinx's romance!

I think, realistically, had Gargoyles gone to its full potential and exploded as the Disney superhero universe its second season was designed to springboard, we wouldn't see Weisman as the big auteur we see him as. He'd be the Stan Lee/Steve Ditko, or the Bob Kane and Bill Finger. His importance would be revered, recognized, and defended...but you know there'd be the occasional discussions about which of the Weismanverse showrunners was the real OG. Sperling fans, Reaves fans, who knows what else? But you'd be jerking my chain if you couldn't see Reaves becoming the head writer of at least one of them at SOME point. It wouldn't be the auteur worship we have instead.

Because as much of a personal and special work Gargoyles is to Weisman, from what I understand even HE didn't see himself as the ONLY creator of Gargoyles until coming to that conclusion in retrospect. Relatively immediate retrospect considering the timeframe, but still retrospect. By his own admission he reversed his original belief of Gargoyles stories existing long after he's gone. So it's interesting to me that when people point out that only certain brands and properties can work for this sort of thing, they neglect to point out Gargoyles was DESIGNED to be one of those kinds of properties!

And honestly, I'll never disagree with the fact Weisman is the big man when it comes to Gargoyles and if it's put into some sort of production, you bet your ass I want him involved in some capacity! Preferably as much capacity as possible. But when it comes to arguments for WHY...I've just never been convinced by any of them. I'll fully admit my reason. Because I like him the best. He's my favorite writer and Gargoyles is my favorite television show. But I don't see the logic in thinking someone else would do it badly BECAUSE they aren't him.

Mostly, I just feel like these sorts of discussions would be way more honest if it was admitted upfront that it's purely out of (understandable!) bias and there's no real objective thought put into it. Even the comparisons people use, like TGC or arbitrary remakes in other entertainment industries all sucking, fall flat pretty quickly.
Harlan Phoenix
posted @ Mon, Jul 29, 2013 11:59:03 pm EDT from 76.2.66.79

A 'Gargoyles' without Weisman would be akin to that 'Nightmare On Elm Street' remake without Robert Englund: It'd be fine if you turned off your brain, and it would be obvious that at least SOME ATTEMPT at quality is there, but it still wouldn't be the same, and it would be hated by the fanbase.
KingCobra582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
posted @ Mon, Jul 29, 2013 10:37:35 pm EDT from 99.177.172.109

We have already seen Gargoyles without Weisman, and all know how that turned out. TGC and Marvel comic were disasters.

I don't see Gargoyles as the type of series that can be very successful without its creator. Star Wars, Star Trek, Marvel Comics, DC Comics and a host of others have had great success without their original creators. Marvel and DC have had several alternate universes that work. Batman, Spider-man, and Superman have all had a couple of movie series and multiple TV series that have been successful.

Because so much of Gargoyles has come from Greg, I can't see anyone taking over and having the same quality of product. All the others I listed have had other people contribute to those products success and sometimes surpassed the originals.

I re-watched SSM this weekend, and I have to say, of all the Gwen Stacy's that I have seen in comics, TV, or movies, this one is my favorite. I also love MJs first appearance.
Adam - [carl006_1999 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Mon, Jul 29, 2013 10:30:40 pm EDT from 76.113.172.81

HARLAN> Some nice points, Harlan. I suppose I rebooted Gargoyles could theoretically work but I'd still have to put my vote towards a Weisman led canon continuation, if asked. Especially after the last time Disney tried making Gargoyles without Greg.

Still, it is nice to see a well thought out, well written argument that goes against fandom's conventional wisdom. Keep it up. :)
Algernon
posted @ Mon, Jul 29, 2013 9:18:06 pm EDT from 109.77.193.186

BISHANKSJY> AMEN. NO Weisman, I don`t watch!

And as for that reviewer, I don`t like his reviewes at all, but everyone is entitled to their stupid opinions.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
I did it! I watched all 485 Best picture nominees in 365 days!
posted @ Mon, Jul 29, 2013 9:05:10 pm EDT from 75.159.21.195

Either.

My point is that a highly archetypal show like Gargoyles, which already adapts and reinterprets various characters, DOES lend itself to a completely new take on its story. Weisman has always said that Gargoyles was developed through the prism of Goliath. Manhattan is full of optimistic, yet still dark, purple hues. The cast is weighted as foils for Goliath, particularly in season one. Everything relies on being seen through those specific prisms, even if season 2 was developed differently so it could be used to spin off like forty million shows.

But that lends to rebooting. Heck, New Olympians is another creator's concept filtered into the Gargoyles Universe and whose cast would've included Xanatos. Gargoyles is Weisman's baby, there's no doubt, but it's so all inclusive and full of different concepts that it's not like it CAN'T be rebooted and presented with a new interpretation. If there's no issue with interpreting Jean Valjean in the Gargoyles Universe, for example...if we're fine with Weisman rebooting a Victor Hugo character, in theory, why can't someone else reboot Goliath and then, by that token, reinterpret the entire Gargoyles universe through that new prism for a new story?

I don't think there's any OBJECTIVE reason why that would be wrong. Would I want it? Not particularly. But I do think that someone taking a new spin on Goliath and building a new continuity around that prism is not only feasible, but...is basically what Gargoyles does and intends to do to other characters all the time. Gargoyles IS about reinterpretation and integration of various creations. Reboots, as a general concept, do the exact same thing. "What if Goliath was THIS," followed by reinterpreting everything from the cast, to the color palette, to the structure of the actual storytelling based on that new look at his core personality and...y'know, it wouldn't feel like Weisman, but it'd have that Gargoyles DNA insomuch as other reboots have the DNA of their source materials. New continuity or otherwise, something as archetypal and borrowing from its past as Gargoyles...yeah, does lend to rebooting.

I don't want it to happen and, again, in this day and age you probably could just pass off something like 2198 as a "reboot", even if it -technically- isn't. I don't disagree with the desire to want Weisman playing in his sandbox. I just think saying Gargoyles DOESN'T lend to reinvention when reinvention is one of its core thingamabobs is less about the objective nature of Gargoyles and more about "Well, I don't want it."

Which, I don't either. But still.
Harlan Phoenix
posted @ Mon, Jul 29, 2013 7:55:07 pm EDT from 76.2.66.79

TODD> The people using the latter definition are using it wrong.
Greg Bishansky
Here's the problem with most fanfic writers: they seem to think Dominique is a second life. It isn't. Demona spelled it plainly in "High Noon." She's a gargoyle. Dominique is just a tool to help her in her goals. She'll use the form because she changes into a human, whether she likes it or not, but Dominique is not another life for her.
posted @ Mon, Jul 29, 2013 7:48:53 pm EDT from 67.189.178.253

Maybe we'd better work out what we're meaning by "reboot". I get the suspicion that some of us are using it to mean "set in an entirely different continuity from the original series" and some of us are using it to mean "simple revival of the series, that could be set in the same continuity or a different continuity".
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are great finders
posted @ Mon, Jul 29, 2013 7:38:54 pm EDT from 108.226.1.5

Todd>"(Not to mention that such reboots usually seem to work best when the series is based on a pre-existing property, like something from DC or Marvel Comics.)"

Gargoyles being rebooted makes it a pre-existing property. There aren't decades of "Munsters" fiction beyond the implied backstory of their Universal Monster characters, but that didn't stop the existence of the (criminally shafted) Mockingbird Lane. Given that Gargoyles is highly archetypal fiction that draws from older fiction both archetypally and literally (with so many actual literary figures being straight up adapted for the show), Gargoyles is literally the exact sort of property that DOES lend to rebooting. Gargoyles adapts an entire wealth of civilization's literary tradition through a specific tone and prism set by Goliath. Reboots adapt things through a specific tone and prism set by their new perspective. It's almost as if Gargoyles and reboots have the exact same core philosophies.

I think there're plenty of others who could provide an interesting spin on Gargoyles. I'm not entirely interested in seeing those spins as much as I'm interested in Weisman telling more stories in that world, but I don't doubt its possible. If we're willing to accept Weisman when he wants to write a Victor Hugo character, are we REALLY obligated to say only one man can write Goliath?

Personally, I wouldn't want to see a reboot because in the age of Legends of Korra and Tron: Uprising, it's pretty easy to maintain brands as legacy and something like Gargoyles 2198 would be just as much of a viable reboot premise as anything else (after all, I'm sure Disney'd be happy as long as it has that big purple one. What was his name? Samson? You're making him a teenager this time? Great!) I'm with everyone in that I wouldn't want to SEE a reboot, unless I'm being a trolling douche. But saying it doesn't LEND to one is awfully silly.

(Though, if I was making that poll):

REBOOT, but by Michael Reaves.
MOVIE, but by Joss Whedon.
GAME, but it's a Dark Ages game done by Bethesda in the style of Elder Scrolls.

At least then the poll wouldn't be boringly biased.
Harlan Phoenix
posted @ Mon, Jul 29, 2013 7:25:16 pm EDT from 76.2.66.79

Greg B> I wouldn't necessarily agree with none over bad. After all, even a terrible adaptation, perhaps in live-action, could lead to a renewed interest in an animated property...

*cough* The Last Airbender *cough*
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!
posted @ Mon, Jul 29, 2013 7:17:51 pm EDT from 174.101.230.22

Exactly. I want a continuation, not a reboot. I'd rather no "Gargoyles" than bad "Gargoyles" and no "Gargoyles" than non-Weisman "Gargoyles".

I follow writers and creative teams, not characters and brands.
Greg Bishansky
Here's the problem with most fanfic writers: they seem to think Dominique is a second life. It isn't. Demona spelled it plainly in "High Noon." She's a gargoyle. Dominique is just a tool to help her in her goals. She'll use the form because she changes into a human, whether she likes it or not, but Dominique is not another life for her.
posted @ Mon, Jul 29, 2013 7:02:09 pm EDT from 67.189.178.253

Wolf> I like that you specify only one of them wouldn't suck, which kinda slants the poll in the favor of one obvious choice.

Therefore I choose total reboot. The resulting tears from the scattered, but present, Gargoyles fans and 90's nostalgics will allow me to maintain my own survival by storing said tears in the event of surprise dehydration.
Harlan Phoenix
posted @ Mon, Jul 29, 2013 6:56:52 pm EDT from 76.2.66.79

I think that a "new continuity-type" return would be a mistake. One of the big reasons why we want to see the series return is to continue the stories begun in the original series; we'd have no hope of that if the world of the new series was a separate world, as different from that in the original series as, say, "Earth-16" in "Young Justice" is from the world of "Batman: TAS".

(Not to mention that such reboots usually seem to work best when the series is based on a pre-existing property, like something from DC or Marvel Comics.)

If they had to make it a complete reboot, they should go all the way and have the only thing in common from the original series be the existence of living gargoyles, but with nothing in common with Goliath and his clan beyond being based on the familiar architectural features (say, have them be regular architectural gargoyles brought to life by a freak weather event - and maybe even make them the series villains with the heroes being humans protecting their city from the animated monsters, which would certainly be a reverse of the original series' premise).

But a rebooted continuity would only take away the whole point (or the chief point) of bringing the series back.
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are great finders
posted @ Mon, Jul 29, 2013 6:45:26 pm EDT from 108.226.1.5

WOLF> <<a video game that continues the story & brings back the original cast & writers (& doesnt suck)>>

This.

Or the movie... because if there is a movie that does well, Disney will pump money into the franchise.

But, as far as "Gargoyles" goes, no Greg Weisman... I'm not watching it.
Greg Bishansky
Here's the problem with most fanfic writers: they seem to think Dominique is a second life. It isn't. Demona spelled it plainly in "High Noon." She's a gargoyle. Dominique is just a tool to help her in her goals. She'll use the form because she changes into a human, whether she likes it or not, but Dominique is not another life for her.
posted @ Mon, Jul 29, 2013 6:35:01 pm EDT from 67.189.178.253

Heres a question for everyone here, if disney were to revive gargoyles what would you rather see(keep in mind you can only pick from these choices): a total reboot that keeps the basic idea, characters & tones but changes everything else, a live action movies that rehashes the original story line just in a modern setting with a few tweaks for relevance, a video game that continues the story & brings back the original cast & writers (& doesnt suck) or leave it as it is for fear of the franchised being ruined like so many others.
Wolf - [megatronwolf at msn dot com]
What would Snake Plissken do?
posted @ Mon, Jul 29, 2013 6:27:48 pm EDT from 69.122.134.118

He seems to be giving the episodes average or better scores. From someone who clearly isn't a fan, I take that as praise for the series. Gargoyles isn't for everyone, and thats fine, but its nice to see that even those who don't much care for it see some value and entertainment in it. That is something I've noted in my family and friends who've watched various episodes over the years, but didn't get hooked.
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" - Sevarius, "Louse"
posted @ Mon, Jul 29, 2013 2:20:02 pm EDT from 99.92.109.252

So, this site has been reviewing "Gargoyles" and, it doesn't seem all that favorably. The critic doesn't seem to like Xanatos's plans within plans and considers them to be a major flaw of the series. They also said "Deadly Force" turned them off to the series as a kid because it was trying to be "educational".

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, of course, but take a look:

http://www.totalmediabridge.com/childhood-revisited-gargoyles-awakening/

http://www.totalmediabridge.com/childhood-revisted-gargoyles-the-thrill-of-the-hunttemptation/

http://www.totalmediabridge.com/gargoyles-deadly-forceenter-macbeth/
Greg Bishansky
Here's the problem with most fanfic writers: they seem to think Dominique is a second life. It isn't. Demona spelled it plainly in "High Noon." She's a gargoyle. Dominique is just a tool to help her in her goals. She'll use the form because she changes into a human, whether she likes it or not, but Dominique is not another life for her.
posted @ Mon, Jul 29, 2013 12:09:23 pm EDT from 67.189.178.253

Greg B.> "Okay, final ten!"

Final ten? What, is the site going down or was that just sarcasm?
KingCobra582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
posted @ Mon, Jul 29, 2013 9:27:25 am EDT from 99.177.172.109

10th. Hunter's Moon Part Three.

I was recently thinking about Greg Weisman's idea for a "Gargoyles" story in which Goliath was apparently captured by the police and almost nobody considers putting him on trial because they see gargoyles as just wild animals, that to them, it would be like putting a wolf or a mountain lion on trial. Obviously, for the story to work, Goliath would have to have been apprehended by the authorities (since if he wasn't, the issue would be purely academic) - though obviously in a more believable way than the infamous "deer in the headlights" scene in "And Justice For All". And that set me wondering - if Goliath *was* captured by the police, what would Castaway's response be?

Obviously, Castaway would find out about that quickly (especially since Goliath's capture would probably be public news; the police and city government would want to let the public know that one of those "monsters" - and the alpha-male, at tthat - was now safely in captivity and no longer roaming the city). He wants to kill Goliath himself, of course (and the other gargoyles), but we know that the Castaway of Greg Weisman's plans is too savvy to try breaking into whatever facility Goliath was being held in to do him in; that sort of thing would make the Quarrymen look like out-of-control vigilantes and be bad for their reputation. I suspect, though, that he might be heading the calls for Goliath to be "put down" (given the above view of the gargoyles as simply beasts or monsters, most of the people in New York would certainly think of it in those terms - the destruction of a dangerous animal rather than the execution of a criminal), maybe setting up a petition and gathering signatures for it; it wouldn't be the same as bringing his hammer down on Goliath's head, but he might see it as better than nothing. At any rate, his response to such a situation would be worth seeing.
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are great finders
posted @ Mon, Jul 29, 2013 8:46:09 am EDT from 108.226.1.5

9th. Hunter's Moon Part 2
Adam - [carl006_1999 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Mon, Jul 29, 2013 7:35:09 am EDT from 76.113.172.81

8th - Hunters Moon part 1
VickyUK - [VickySunseeker at aol dot com]
posted @ Mon, Jul 29, 2013 3:12:00 am EDT from 109.144.198.30

**checks episode list, so as not to skip another episode**

SEVENTH, or "Possession" ;)
Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Mon, Jul 29, 2013 1:22:46 am EDT from 70.176.170.14

The Reckoning!
Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"Living in the limelight, the universal dream..." - Rush
posted @ Mon, Jul 29, 2013 1:20:31 am EDT from 66.91.223.104

Turf!
SomeGeek
http://www.squidoo.com/thegeeklens-cartoons
posted @ Mon, Jul 29, 2013 12:54:03 am EDT from 69.255.208.193

Vendettas!

Again... I just can't let this one go apparently.
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" - Sevarius, "Louse"
posted @ Mon, Jul 29, 2013 12:17:14 am EDT from 99.92.109.252

Part One.
Chip - [Sir_Griff723 at yahoo dot com]
If you are on the wrong road, progress means.. walking back to the right road; ..the man who turns back soonest is the most progressive man~~C.S. Lewis
posted @ Mon, Jul 29, 2013 12:16:33 am EDT from 24.217.38.192

Or The Gathering Part Two to be third.

(Blast your soul, Chip!)
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!
posted @ Mon, Jul 29, 2013 12:16:28 am EDT from 174.101.230.22

Rather amusing for The Gathering, Part One to actually be second.
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!
posted @ Mon, Jul 29, 2013 12:15:48 am EDT from 174.101.230.22

The Gathering.
Chip - [Sir_Griff723 at yahoo dot com]
If you are on the wrong road, progress means.. walking back to the right road; ..the man who turns back soonest is the most progressive man~~C.S. Lewis
posted @ Mon, Jul 29, 2013 12:15:42 am EDT from 24.217.38.192

Okay, final ten!

FUTURE TENSE!
Greg Bishansky
Here's the problem with most fanfic writers: they seem to think Dominique is a second life. It isn't. Demona spelled it plainly in "High Noon." She's a gargoyle. Dominique is just a tool to help her in her goals. She'll use the form because she changes into a human, whether she likes it or not, but Dominique is not another life for her.
posted @ Mon, Jul 29, 2013 12:12:57 am EDT from 67.189.178.253