Subtly manipulating the situation, sure. That's a reasonable and likely interpretation.

To help Goliath, at least predominately? That's where I think you're making a leap of logic.

If the events of "The Gathering" really did go more-or-less according to her plans, as she herself suggests, then I would think involving Goliath and co. was far more about protecting Alexander (and reaching a situation where he'd be able to learn magic but still stay with his parents) than about arranging things for their benefit.

If placing David in Goliath's debt was even on her radar, which I'm skeptical about, I would argue it was a decidedly secondary goal.
Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"Listen, sempai. I don't really care if you guys recognize me as a boy or a girl. In my opinion, it's more important for a person to be recognized for who they are, rather than for what sex they are." - Haruhi Fujioka
posted @ Sun, Jul 5, 2015 6:27:22 pm EDT from 66.27.220.40

I guess that was my interpretation, based also on the fact that it was Titania who told Goliath about the situation in "The Gathering." I guess it's possible she was actually hoping he would help take Alexander, but I don't see what help he really could have offered Oberon. I always took that as her subtly manipulating the situation to help him.

Anyway, thanks for the thoughts.
Arlo
Gargoyles need not apply.
posted @ Sun, Jul 5, 2015 5:43:21 pm EDT from 76.118.36.78

Braniac: Well production would involve contracts, logistics etc. but the point is that the game itself and its contents are down to the Kickstarter. This is fair enough: "legal fees" and "rent" aren't exactly a compelling stretch goal. As for the budget, remember that the original two games were developed concurrently, went through three iterations on 2 consoles over several years, had a whole chapter axed after extensive research and modelling had been done. Plus, it pioneered completely new types of gameplay. Then it was heavily promoted as a flagship Dreamcast title and was finally discontinued because it vastly overspent so even very strong sales (for the Dreamcast) couldn't make it worth pursuing. Shenmue III will use existing technology and, at $2m, would be a narrative-led game; at $11m, it would start to approach the scope of Shenmue. I think Sony's been reasonable here -- they're providing all support but the game itself is what the fans make it. However, nobody but fans are going to give the benefit of the doubt to a major corporation and Disney would doubtless find the same thing.
Ed
posted @ Sat, Jul 4, 2015 5:50:14 pm EDT from 82.108.49.158

Happy Independence Day (and anniversary of the founding of the Young Justice Team) everyone!
Matthew
From far, from eve and morning, And yon twelve-winded sky, The stuff of life to knit me, Blew hither: here am I. -A.E. Housman
posted @ Sat, Jul 4, 2015 12:28:37 pm EDT from 64.85.229.140

I'm pretty sure that the "factor" you're leaving out is that reinstating the Manhattan Clan to Castle Wyvern was David's decision. Titania had nothing (directly) to do with it.

You're drawing a direct connection from "Titania respects Goliath" --> "Titania manipulates events so that Goliath and co. get to return to their home," which isn't supported by canon in nearly so direct a fashion.

At most, you have the evidence that Titania suggests that the resolution of "The Gathering" - Fox's dormant powers awakening, and Alex being allowed to stay with his parents under Puck's tutelage - may have been "exactly what she was attempting to do from the beginning" (paraphrased).

Even if we take this as truth, though, the Manhattan Clan didn't return to Wyvern at the end of "The Gathering." They returned at the end of "Hunter's Moon," because David CHOSE to honor his debt in that way.

That choice is key, and Titania had no control over it. She may have anticipated it, mind, but if/when she was manipulating the events of "The Gathering," I kinda doubt "make David indebted to Goliath so that someday he'll give them their house keys back" was anywhere NEAR the top of the list of things she was trying to accomplish.
Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"Listen, sempai. I don't really care if you guys recognize me as a boy or a girl. In my opinion, it's more important for a person to be recognized for who they are, rather than for what sex they are." - Haruhi Fujioka
posted @ Sat, Jul 4, 2015 2:28:14 am EDT from 66.27.220.40

I'm still not following. Does Oberon care that they were not living in their ancestral home? I never got that from the show, but I guess it's conceivable, if he made Goliath's clan the guardians of Avalon. But even so, Greg's answers on that question indicate that Titania isn't trying to make up for what David and Fox have done to Goliath's clan, so that seems to indicate that even if Oberon found out about it, he still wouldn't have held her in any lower esteem than he did already. Unless she was worried that if he did find out, he would try to restore them to their home, and Fox or Alexander could possibly be harmed along the way, or be at a feud with him in which she would be caught in the middle? But since interfering with mortals is against his law, it doesn't seem to me that he would have acted.
Arlo
Gargoyles need not apply.
posted @ Sat, Jul 4, 2015 12:57:28 am EDT from 76.118.36.78

Oberon would likely be that major factor, and Oberon related motivations.
Harlan of Ash and Foam
Let the ol' tail wag.
posted @ Thu, Jul 2, 2015 10:04:13 pm EDT from 204.210.239.7

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=20178

I don't get it. What major factor did I leave out?
Arlo
Gargoyles need not apply.
posted @ Thu, Jul 2, 2015 8:16:47 pm EDT from 76.118.36.78

"Sony and Shibuya Productions have been wonderful partners because they believe in Shenmue and want to see the best for the fans and the game. Their investment in (and support of) Shenmue have helped to realize a sequel that will stand proud with its predecessors. While it is not business practice to discuss the specific details of such arrangements, I can say that with their assistance on the production and marketing end, and in Sony's case with some publishing support as well, Ys Net is able to use more of the money we collect through Kickstarter purely for Shenmue 3's development. It is also important to note that your funds are going strictly to Ys Net for development of Shenmue 3 - Sony and Shibuya Productions are not seeing a cent of your Kickstarter dollars." ~ Yu Suzuki

PRODUCTION and marketing. The first Shenmue was on the order of TWENTY-FIVE times the Kickstarter budget at minimum and that was a decade and a half ago. If Suzuki intends to make something on the same level as the previous two games, there's NO WAY there isn't some extra financial support for game development outside whatever is derived from the crowdfunding campaign.

Arguably, that's the biggest worry about Kickstarter projects. They can sometimes give an unrealistic idea of budgetary requirements for indie projects (though I've heard of errors in both directions). Even Bloodstained, which said from the start about 90% of its actual budget would be coming from traditional investment/funding outside Kickstarter, there's STILL some debate on whether or not its budgetary design is realistic.

And then there are projects like Star Citizen...but I'm getting really off topic here. Suffice it to say, there are positives and negatives to the idea of Disney doing something like this. The biggest issue is a need for transparency, frankly.
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
"It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known."
posted @ Wed, Jul 1, 2015 3:53:34 pm EDT from 104.129.196.76

Shenmue III isn't funded by Sony. They're picking up costs for marketing, distribution etc. -- all the functional stuff. But the game itself is funded by the Kickstarter (which could still do with support if the game is to evolve beyond a quite linear continuation of the story!). The decision to kickstart wasn't to gauge interest but because Yu Suzuki didn't want to spend years in internal politics at Sony, who have cashflow issues, with no guarantee of a sale when he could go to the fanbase and get a budget which reflects the strength of support. Unfortunately, the myth that Sony was only testing the water has been allowed to take hold and it really seems to have strangled support for the game which, while very respectable in absolute terms, still isn't as high as would be needed to make a game of similar scope to the first two. A cautionary tale.

I think Kickstarter works fine when it's a form of pre-buying. "Veronica Mars" is a great example of this: instead of making something and then seeing if anyone wants to buy it, people buy it and then you make it. It also allows people to pay an amount commensurate with the strength of their demand. I think this could be quite successful for "Gargoyles", if Disney say, "if you buy it for $X, we'll make it".
Ed
posted @ Wed, Jul 1, 2015 2:36:16 pm EDT from 81.159.90.83

Inland> I don't know if I'd personally support such a Kickstarter, but it certainly can be done. Case in point, the currently-running Kickstarter for Shenmue III. Announced at E3 and asking for $2 million, it cleared its goal within 2 days and was the fastest game-based Kickstarter (possibly fastest ever) to crack a million. There is a market for this title and it showed itself quickly. Previously, the game Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night also did VERY well on Kickstarter but said from the outset it had financial backers and the Kickstarter was more to prove the market was there (which it did quite handily).

Admittedly, there are some concerns about doing things like this. Shenmue III got some flak for not being more obvious about this, especially since Sony was funding, whereas Bloodstained was direct from the start that Kickstarter was more for market demonstration than actual funding and the financial backers were a much smaller company than one of the major console producers. Disney running a Kickstarter but being open about it from the start being about gauging market rather than actually crowdfunding a project COULD work, but it's a very fine line to walk.
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
"It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known."
posted @ Wed, Jul 1, 2015 9:18:36 am EDT from 104.129.196.76

And away we go on with the show!
Vinnie - [thomaspeano at yahoo dot com]
Mark Twain: "Don't argue with stupid people. They'll take you down to their level and beat you with experience."
posted @ Wed, Jul 1, 2015 2:22:11 am EDT from 108.238.87.147

No. Too dangerous a precedent.
Harlan of Ash and Foam
Let the ol' tail wag.
posted @ Tue, Jun 30, 2015 8:28:24 pm EDT from 204.210.239.7

If they're trying to sell a physical product, then soliciting that product for money would be a glorified pre-order. I think Atlus did something like that for the North American release of Ni no Kuni a few years ago, and it seemed to work fairly well.

I'm not sure what I think of glorified pre-orders, or efforts to convince the investing public that they're anything other than pre-orders, though.

By "physical product" I mean anything that can be packaged and shipped, including DVDs. Selling something that can't be packaged and shipped, like a new TV series or a continuation of an old one, would be trickier... unless they put it on DVD too.
Paul - [nampahcfluap at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Tue, Jun 30, 2015 4:30:59 pm EDT from 73.176.251.27

After seeing many requests to Greg W to crowd fund projects he doesn't own I thought to ask: would you Kickstart a project from such large companies such as Disney or Warner Bros. for Gargoyles or Young Justice? Spider-man? Knowing that they could produce the shows without it? Is Kickstarting a project such as them to "show interest" worth it?

I have my own feelings but they're a bit confused so I'd like to hear other thoughts.
Inland
Signature: EIGHTH
posted @ Tue, Jun 30, 2015 1:50:33 am EDT from 71.227.195.216

Seven for the dwarf lords in their halls of stone
Paul - [nampahcfluap at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Tue, Jun 30, 2015 12:05:22 am EDT from 73.176.251.27

Sixth!
Ross
posted @ Mon, Jun 29, 2015 4:38:26 pm EDT from 50.51.114.90

Fifth!
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
posted @ Mon, Jun 29, 2015 9:14:29 am EDT from 99.153.193.91

Two squared.
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
"It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known."
posted @ Mon, Jun 29, 2015 8:54:07 am EDT from 104.129.196.76

3QUALITY!
Matthew
From far, from eve and morning, And yon twelve-winded sky, The stuff of life to knit me, Blew hither: here am I. -A.E. Housman
posted @ Mon, Jun 29, 2015 3:15:14 am EDT from 71.202.80.122

It's Guy Love, between TWO guys! :D
Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"Listen, sempai. I don't really care if you guys recognize me as a boy or a girl. In my opinion, it's more important for a person to be recognized for who they are, rather than for what sex they are." - Haruhi Fujioka
posted @ Mon, Jun 29, 2015 12:35:15 am EDT from 66.27.220.40

FIRST in the name of last week's surprisingly pleasant Supreme Court rulings :)

And for those curious, the first season of Star Wars: Rebels comes to Blu-Ray and DVD September 1st.

http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/news/Star-Wars-Rebels-Season-1/21253
Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Mon, Jun 29, 2015 12:05:50 am EDT from 72.208.91.93