Huh, I don't know why Safari and Chrome on my iPhone wouldn't preview or submit my last comment. Anyway, if you're looking for good TV animation, I recommend Trollhunters on Netflix. It has themes evocative of both Gargoyles and Spectacular Spider-Man.
Landon - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]
posted @ Fri, Jan 5, 2018 5:59:50 pm EST from 68.63.214.219

PAUL> Funnily enough, an "Arthur, son of the King of Britain" does make a guest appearance in an old Irish legend around Finn Mac Cool...

http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/celt/gafm/gafm49.htm
Algernon
I guard your death
posted @ Fri, Jan 5, 2018 5:31:00 pm EST from 109.76.143.195

The oldest sources for the King Arthur legend probably would be Irish or Welsh in origin; from what I understand, of the cultures that currently make up the British isles, theirs were some of the earliest.
Paul - [nampahcfluap at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Fri, Jan 5, 2018 1:50:21 pm EST from 76.243.192.93

Landon - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]
posted @ Fri, Jan 5, 2018 12:06:13 pm EST from 172.58.83.159

PHOENICIAN - I'd never linked "I hate riddles" to Sir Gromer's test, but that is a good point. It's probably a coincidence; I doubt that the writers had that incident in mind when they wrote that line, though it makes that moment all the more fun.

I'm afraid I haven't studied the "Loathly Damsel" story enough to know whether the story of Gawain and Ragnell came first or Chaucer's "Wife of Bath's Tale" (though I suspect the former is the "mainstream" version and that the differences in Chaucer's version were deliberate, to tie in with the Wife of Bath's characterization), though I've read that there were similar tales in old Irish legends. (Other tales about King Arthur have echoes in other bodies of legend; there's an Irish legend about Cuchulain getting into a beheading game with a giant that parallels "Sir Gawain and the Green Knight", for example. And there's a Norse legend about Odin in his one-eyed wanderer guise entering a king's hall, thrusting a sword into a tree in the middle of the hall and announcing that whoever pulls the sword out may keep it as his gift to the man; all the warriors present try to pull the sword out, but only one succeeds, the king's youngest son Sigmund.) The "Loathly Damsel" tale does feel like a sort of "gender-reversed" version of "Beauty and the Beast", I might add, though that's all I can say.

Internal Arthurian chronology is a difficult matter; it never seems quite consistent from one story to the next, beyond such necessities as Mordred (in those versions of the story where he's Arthur's illegitimate son) being old enough by the end of Arthur's reign to be leading an army of rebellion against his father. I suspect that most of the storytellers didn't give much thought to it.
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are really good finders
posted @ Fri, Jan 5, 2018 7:45:37 am EST from 24.251.84.117

I guess the legend of King Arthur didn't emerge fully formed from a particular source, but I've been particularly curious about the history of the story of Gawain and Ragnell, particularly in light of its similarities to and differences from the Wife of Bath's Tale.

What was the oldest source for the story of Gawain and Ragnell? Was that source older or more recent than the Canterbury Tales?
Paul - [nampahcfluap at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Fri, Jan 5, 2018 2:53:29 am EST from 76.243.192.93

Todd: Still a little past half-way, but I just finished "Sir Gawain and the Lady Ragnall", which was every bit as satisfying a read as a Gargoyles fan could hope.

The chapter has perhaps the best callback (callforward?) to one of my favorite Arthur moments from the show ("I hate riddles" from "Pendragon")[SPOILER] , in that we have Arthur and Gawain spend a year and a day trying to crack the answer to Gromer Somer Joure's own riddle, and only to be straight-up given the answer by Lady Ragnell herself!) [/SPOILER]. (<--not an intense spoiler, but I felt to keep it hidden for any that might want to enjoy discovering it as I did.)

It also featured magic and, while not overtly explained, demonstrates some spell-breaking that feels like it would fit quite naturally with the show, what with terms and conditions that needed to be met quite precisely.

In terms to the rest of the book it was also definitely a nice change of pace to see a secondary woman character (i.e., not just Nimue or Morgana le Fay) get a little more development (thinking back to what I have read so far, Lady Linnet from "Sir Gareth, or the Knight of the Kitchen" stuck out as another character that was quite fun to read).

A bit of a tangent: I initially tried to keep track of all the references to time, if only to gauge how old Arthur is during his reign, given that he was a kid when he found the Sword in the Stone. I've since lost track, but I couldn't help but think he was still on the youngish side after this most recent adventure with Sir Gawain and Lady Ragnell.
Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Fri, Jan 5, 2018 2:10:09 am EST from 68.231.125.58

Of course, Avalon's best known as King Arthur's resting place, so the identity of the Sleeping King was obvious.

Roger Lancelyn Green also wrote a few other retellings of famous myths and legends: two on Greek mythology (one all the way down to the death of Heracles, the other on the Trojan War), one on Norse mythology, one on Robin Hood, and one on Egyptian mythology. Except maybe for the Egyptian mythology, they're all still in print; I've spotted them in the "mythology" section of the children's area of the local Barnes and Noble.
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are really good finders
posted @ Thu, Jan 4, 2018 6:55:49 pm EST from 24.251.84.117

I also read Roger Lancelyn Green's book on King Arthur as a kid, but only a few months before Gargoyles first came out. I guess it stuck with me, though, because I was not at all surprised that the "Sleeping King" in Avalon was King Arthur.
Paul - [nampahcfluap at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Thu, Jan 4, 2018 11:46:07 am EST from 73.168.138.126

PHOENICIAN - I'm glad to learn about your getting to read Roger Lancelyn Green's treatment of the Arthurian legend. I think it's vital to anyone wanting to get some idea of how Greg Weisman would have handled King Arthur and those around him in "Gargoyles" (particularly the "Pendragon" spin-off). Though in my case, I read it as a boy, long before "Gargoyles" came out. (My copy goes back to the late 70's, when I bought it at my school's book store.)

How far have you gotten in it?
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are really good finders
posted @ Wed, Jan 3, 2018 7:13:16 pm EST from 24.251.84.117

Tenth and a (somewhat belated) Happy 2018! Personally looking forward to what name that (presumably) Gore is going to label this year's answered queue (2009's WEISMANSERS is still a fave of mine, lol).

And for those curious (but definitely looking at you Todd), I finally cracked open not too long ago a copy of Roger Lancelyn Green's King Arthur and His Knights of the Round Table (already about half-way into it). I had previously checked it out way back in 2011-2012, but my to-read list got the best of me then, and it was regrettably returned thanks to the inter-library due date it had.

The Castle Carbonek moments have naturally been quite fascinating, but my Gargoyles-eye was also keenly excited for chapters like "The Magic of Nimue and Morgana le Fay" (might need to reread that one again, to be honest) and "Sir Gawain and the Green Knight". For the same reasons, I'm looking forward to finally reading "Sir Gawain and Lady Ragnell" and Book Three's Quest for the Holy Grail d:

Finally, today I got my copy of the trade paperback of Cary Bates and Greg Weisman's The Fall and Rise of Captain Atom miniseries from last year. :)
Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Wed, Jan 3, 2018 6:18:38 pm EST from 68.231.125.58

Masterdramon> De nada. ;)

And yeah, the Gargoyles Universe seems to operate under what we Philosophy Nerds call the "Eternalism" theory of time. The theory is that all points in time,past present or future, are equally real and exist "simultaneously" for lack of a better word.

Much the same way every frame in a filmstrip exists simultaneously, even if you can only look at them one at a time.
Algernon
I guard your death
posted @ Wed, Jan 3, 2018 7:55:17 am EST from 86.47.42.225

Time is relative. If the past is immutable than, necessarily, so is the future.

There's only one version of history. Brooklyn was born in 958, lived until 1997, then disappeared from New York for what, to an outside observer, was only 40 seconds. Between his disappearance and reappearance, however, he proceeded to have 40 years' worth of adventures across the timestream.

If Brooklyn DID look at a history book that chronicled his own life in 2198 - something we know he's actively trying to avoid and, more to the point, I kinda doubt even EXISTS (I doubt he ever gave interviews to prospective biographers, after all) - then all it would record is that he was gone for 40 seconds and then came back. Hardly worth a footnote.

Algernon: Awwwww...thanks for the plug, my good friend. Hawaiki is definitely turning out to be some of the most fun I've ever had writing fics.

And incidentally...NINTH! Happy New Year, folks!
Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"Take my revolution!" - Utena Tenjou
posted @ Wed, Jan 3, 2018 6:51:19 am EST from 76.173.128.187

I see. The core of the question I did send in was about how the Phoenix Gate deals with time travel to the future. We know you can't change anything in the past ("history is immutable"), but time-travel to the future is an unknown, so I wondered that unknown presented any complications in planning, hence why I mentioned "historical self" - did Brooklyn just "disappear" on the day the Gate took him, did the future play out "as if Brooklyn never time-travelled", or, the most likely possibility, the Timestream treats Brooklyn's presence in the future as a "Brooklyn shall have already done that" (Brooklyn factus erit iam illud) moment?
Anonymous
posted @ Wed, Jan 3, 2018 3:02:38 am EST from 69.11.93.217

SUPERMORFF - Thanks. I misread the question, and after reading your post, recognized what the question was about - what Brooklyn might find out about the "present" during his time in 2198.
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are really good finders
posted @ Tue, Jan 2, 2018 7:16:52 pm EST from 24.251.84.117

Anonymous and Todd> I'm pretty sure Greg said something about that, many many years ago. Didn't he say that Brooklyn actively avoids learning about his own fate, and then refuse to comment on whether he may nevertheless have heard about certain specific instances? Hang on...

No, yeah, it's in in Greg's conclusion to the contest: http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?rid=149

It says "Brooklyn does hope to return to his own time someday, and so makes a special effort not to learn too much about his own "future"."
Supermorff
posted @ Tue, Jan 2, 2018 12:06:33 pm EST from 185.62.85.148

All Lucky Sevens!
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!
posted @ Tue, Jan 2, 2018 9:27:25 am EST from 104.129.196.115

We'll probably only find that out if Greg ever gets to make "Gargoyles 2198". Until then, he'll respond to such questions with "No spoilers".

The current full moon (the one we had last night) is known as the Wolf Moon (that's what they call the full moon in January). The gargoyles will no doubt hope that such a moon doesn't encourage one of their old adversaries in the Pack, the way the Hunter's Moon seems to bring out its namesake antagonists.
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are really good finders
posted @ Tue, Jan 2, 2018 7:28:06 am EST from 24.251.84.117

Has anyone already asked the question of how Brooklyn's "historical self" is handled in Gargoyles 2198, or does Brooklyn just avoid all knowledge of his past self?
Anonymous
posted @ Mon, Jan 1, 2018 10:32:53 pm EST from 69.11.93.217

Fifth.
Matt - [Saint Charles, Missouri, USA]
"For SCIENCE, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward." - Sevarius
posted @ Mon, Jan 1, 2018 4:33:04 pm EST from 99.153.193.91

Fourth in the name of surviving another year, everybody! If anyone's looking for some kick-ass fanfics recommendations to kick-off 2018, I have some recent gems from two of our own regulars...


Bloodstone by Gryphinwyrm7

Brooklyn and his temporary companions Benuthet and Zafira arrive in Guatemala 300 years before Zafira hatched. Now they have to unravel a mystery that haunts Zee's childhood, and confront the ghosts of her past and future.

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/12772738/1/Bloodstone


Hawaiki by Masterdramon

The year is 1790, and a TimeDancing Brooklyn and his companions find themselves in Hawai'i, where the expansionist campaign of Kamehameha I threatens to push the local clan into extinction. But their civil war also risks unleashing something far worse - an evil not seen since the darkest days of Mab.

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/12393098/6/Hawaiki


Both sagas have only recently been updated and come with the official Algernon Seal of Approval! :D
Algernon
I guard your death
posted @ Mon, Jan 1, 2018 8:41:22 am EST from 109.78.236.202

I'm the third person here - or at least, the third person to post here - this year.

Let's see if we can make the comment room more active this year, though I don't know whether it comes from not enough to discuss here, or too little time to visit and post.
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are really good finders
posted @ Mon, Jan 1, 2018 7:35:17 am EST from 24.251.84.117

I two (heh) would like to wish a Merry New Year. I look forward to the new season of Young Justice set to premiere this year.
Matthew
Muscles fade and the mind dulls.But as long as the heart is willing, strength remains.
posted @ Mon, Jan 1, 2018 1:32:35 am EST from 64.85.226.62

The First day of the First month of 2018.

Happy New Year!
Paul - [nampahcfluap at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Mon, Jan 1, 2018 12:59:58 am EST from 73.168.138.126