A Station Eight Fan Web Site


The Phoenix Gate

Comment Room Archive

Comments for the week ending January 3, 2021

Index : Hide Images

Thanks Todd, funny that you don't really remember this one considering it's about amnesia.

I don't usually go much into shipping when I cover episodes but this is the one that really played into the "who is going to end up with who?"

Remember, young or old, rich or poor, friend or foe. We're all in this together

MATTHEW - Thanks for another good review. I barely remember this episode, I'm afraid, so I can't say more than that, but I think you did another fine job analyzing it.
Todd Jensen

First episode of the new year and first one where I didn't watch it from DC Universe as it's been moved to HBO Max.

So watched "Bereft" today, amnesia plots are pretty common in television, heck it's a cliche in soap operas. That's why the way it's handled here is so interesting, with the exception of Superboy everyone knows who they are because only a small selection of their memories was forgotten rather than the entirety like what happens in other stories. This also plays into how the tension for the episode works as well, none of them know they're part of a team so they lack the cohesion for most of the episode, the heavy hitters of the team are dehydrated to the point of near death and completely feral and the rest are running low on resources and stuck in inhospitable terrain. And so the Bialyan military, which would seem like no problem in any other DC show, suddenly become a huge threat.

But as I mentioned in "Denial" a crisis can bring out the best in people like what happened with Robin. Early on he felt entitled to leadership because of his experience and his association with Batman. But here he relies on his own skills and detective work to figure out his situation and with Aqualad out of commission he steps up for the welfare of his team not because he feels entitled to it. Wally behind all of his flirtatious ego is still one of the good guys and is willing to help out a scared and distressed girl because it's what a hero would do. I also like how things can change once his and Artemis' introduction is redone, without her need to look tough and challenge everyone and his unfair resentment of her "replacing" Red Arrow the two band together for survival and end up getting along pretty well.

M'Gann takes a bit of the center stage this episode as her psychic connection ended up causing the mass amnesia and her powers are ultimately responsible for saving the others and their new friend. At the same time here crush on Superboy, while almost certainly reciprocated, does shift her priorities for better and for worse as Robin points out that not only does Aqualad need their help the most but they have no idea what could've caused their amnesia in the first place so rushing off was probably a bad idea.

Psychic powers, much like magic is something that's accepted within the DC Universe but isn't as widespread as some might think, in fact it's far more common in the Marvel universe. This is what makes the psychic fight against Psimon so impressive, the fight in mindscape can let the animators go crazy. And in a nice little detail the fight occurs while M'Gann is still camouflaged so the scientists think that Psimon is just staring intensely at nothing and don't know what's going on until the psychic feedback whips up a telekinetic tornado.

Some Final Thoughts: When M'Gann helps restore Superboy's memory anyone catch the briefest of images shown? I wonder how many thought they had just seen another Genomorph. We also get another some more hints about the hidden nature of her character as she wonders why she's wearing "this outfit" and we see someone who looks like her except she has white skin and is accompanied by a laugh track. And this isn't a form M'Gann's taken before...

I haven't talked much about the music of the series but I really liked the ethereal sounds when the Team enters M'Gann's mind, it's eerie but soothing at the same time. The Sphere makes it's first appearance but the bigger concern is how it gets to Earth. Only the more serious comic book fans would be able to recognize a Boom Tube just at sight, but I like the comparisons to the Zeta Beam transports used by the League. Incidentally Robin's comment about what happened to March is a little awkward as this episode aired after the first of many long hiatuses.

Acting MVPs, there's a few this time: for starters have to give it to Nolan North while Superboy's gone feral. I already know he has to use a higher pitch while playing the character but that plus the bestial screaming? That had to be difficult. Next goes to Stephanie Lemelin and Jason Spisak for their performance playing the much more honest and open Artemis and Kid Flash and then immediately switching back the moment their memories return. Plus their banter is amazing. And finally have to give it to Alan Tudyk as Psimon, I'm so used to his more comedic or laid back performances like Green Arrow that it's a treat to hear a more sinister character.

DC Profiles: In the comics Psimon actually received his psychic powers (and transparent cranium) thanks to Trigon the father of Teen Titans character Raven. He's been a frequent opponent of the Titans usually as the leader of the Fearsome Five, where Mammoth and Shimmer are frequent members.

Favorite Lines:

Artemis: Seen Kid Flash on the news. He doesn't wear black.
Kid Flash: Uh, little unclear on that myself. What about you? Green Arrow fixation?
Kid Flash: Wow. I am not touching that with a 10-foot - uh, so you know how to us that bow?
Artemis: Yeah, my dad taught me... DAD! He must've done this. Another of his stupid tests.
Kid Flash: What kind of test?
Artemis: He probably wants me to kill you.

Artemis: Did you just hear a girl talking in your head?
Kid Flash: Girls are always on my mind, but they're not usually talking.

Kid Flash: [Playing with stealth mode] This is so cool.
Artemis: We look ridiculous. Quit touching yourself!

Wally West: My brain's all yours. Try not to let its brilliance overwhelm you.
Robin: Or underwhelm you. Hey, why isn't anyone ever just whelmed?

Kid Flash: Oh I forgot how much I hate it when he does the ninja thing. Hey, you never said why your dad would want you to "kikkth" me.
Artemis: I got confused by some old movie I saw the other night. About a ninja girl whose ninja dad... ordered her to kill her ninja boyfriend... 'cause he was from a rival ninja clan.
Kid Flash: So, I'm your "ninja boyfriend" huh?
Artemis: Hey. Amnesia, remember? Completely forgot how truly annoying you are.
Kid Flash: Oh and you're the goddess of congeniality.
Robin: Yeesh. Get a room!

Miss Martian: You're here!
Psimon: Eh ha ha ha! You sound so relieved. Is that mindless creature supposed to save your mind?
Miss Martian: No. I save his.
Superboy: Kick his butt.
Psimon: By all means, heh heh heh. Kick my "psychic butt."

Miss Martian: He's too strong.
Superboy: You're strong. And I'm stubborn. Together!
Miss Martian: Together.

Miss Martian: Get... out... of MY HEAD!

Remember, young or old, rich or poor, friend or foe. We're all in this together

I hadn't heard of "The Death of Kings: Seize the Crown" before, though I've heard of other stagings of the historical tetralogies from "Richard II" to "Richard III" in order.

(It reminds me of my wondering whether any of the long-lived characters in "Gargoyles" happened to be in England during the events covered in Shakespeare's history cycle and got to observe them. Demona would have been completely indifferent, of course, beyond probably taking a delight in the humans slaughtering each other (if maybe with mixed feelings - if the humans wipe each other out, that would cheat her out of her revenge). Macbeth's presence would certainly have had some amusing potential, given that (though he wouldn't know it at the time) both he and those rival English kings would wind up sharing the same "press agent". (It'd be particularly tempting to imagine him briefly crossing paths with Richard III, given the parallels between their plays.)

Todd Jensen

Happy New Year!

Antiyonder -- methinks a magical phoenix bursting from the walls of space and time would have been considered a plus for last year d:

Todd -- Thank you, and while I am not as fast a read, I have been making steady progress. I definitely give credit to my recent efforts to not only this fandom but the Oregon Shakespeare Festival's Canon-in-a-Decade (they even created special Bard passports to keep track).

Since 2016 I've been lucky enough to catch 12 shows at various venues (three at the OSF in 2017 after years and years of reading Greg Weisman's glowing reviews about Ashland on S8), and read six others. So I'm currently 18/38 five years into the canon. d:

This does not count the hilarious Complete Works of William Shakespeare (Abridged) or The Death of Kings: Seize the Crown, which combines both historical tetralogies into one two-act show.

"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka

Happy New Year!
Todd Jensen

Happy New Years from me as well.

May it be better and that you don't have to deal with the random appearance of a magical phoenix.


Excuse the double post but I just wanted wish you all a Happy New Year.

May this new year be better than the last.


Remember, young or old, rich or poor, friend or foe. We're all in this together

That is correct, I remember once hearing Greg talk about Brooklyn and Katana's relationship and comparing it to Sam and Dianne (from Cheers) when nobody got it he then compared them to Benedick and Beatrice from "Much Ado About Nothing" and everyone got it.

Just goes to show how he introduced us to Shakespeare.

Remember, young or old, rich or poor, friend or foe. We're all in this together.

MATTHEW - [Made him a little more than the Don John kind of character.]

The Don John from "Much Ado About Nothing"?

Todd Jensen

Thanks again everyone, I'll go into more detail on Orm when I cover the next tie-in issues.
I'm honestly not the biggest fan of what the New 52 reboot did to the DC universe but I will admit it that I like that they gave some depth to Orm beyond the "scheming, obviously evil brother."

Made him a little more than the Don John kind of character.

Remember, young or old, rich or poor, friend or foe. We're all in this together.

I also like it best when the person who's secretly evil and scheming is handled in such a way so that he won't seem painfully obvious to the audience. [SPOILER] Hans in "Frozen" struck me as a great example of such a figure done right. [/SPOILER]

PHOENICIAN - Congratulations on reading "Richard III". I read all of Shakespeare's plays this year (starting at the end of August, and finishing a few weeks ago), and quite enjoyed doing that. I'm particularly fond of the history plays.

Todd Jensen

Honestly, even if he is a scheming brother, I do appreciate that Orm is at least better at hiding his scheming - it's always a bit annoying when a character is so obviously evil that the audience is never in doubt, but the characters never notice. It's a lot better when the characters can go 'well, he'd benefit from Orin dying, but he'd never do anything to make that happen, he's family.'
Karrin Blue

Seventh and Happy New Year's Eve!

YJ: Appreciate the insight about Robin from both you Matthew and Karrin that I honestly didn't give much thought. As for Orm, he definitely screamed scheming brother on first viewing -- and Todd, I just finished reading Richard III for the first time last month! May I be lucky enough to catch a show one day.

Sanjeev -- welcome to the comment room! As for the relatively(by Gargoyles standards) recent talk regarding the Simpson trial and its effects on the series, you can dive into some of the older responses from Greg Weisman that Masterdramon compiled in the archived comment room from May 17, 2020 as well as Greg Weisman's original interview from May 14th (if you previously missed that one, though I imagine that had to have popped up in your google searches).


"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka

One of the other reads I saw, and like a lot, of that bit with Robin, Kaldur, and Bats at the beginning is that even on the Team, Dick is still so used to being part of <i>Batman and Robin</i> that him shadowing Bats counts as alone. Like, of course when Batman means that he wants to talk to someone, obviously that means he should lurk around too, that's just how they <i>work.</i>

Honestly Young Justice's version of Dick, and his relationship with Bruce, is endlessly fascinating to me - especially when we come to Failsafe and see how Dick's image of what kind of hero he wants to be gets absolutely shattered, and how so many of his actions into s2 and s3 are what he <i>doesn't</i> want to be doing, knows he hates doing, but won't stop doing anyways. I really can't wait to see where that goes in s4.

Karrin Blue

Thanks for the latest review, Matthew. (And, yes, I'm a bit concerned as well that things have been so slow in the comment room lately. I suppose it's a combination of many things: people drifting away from the comment room with the passage of time, fewer things to say, and the larger concerns of the outside world.)

I recall two things about this episode. The first is a minor piece; when Kaldur and Aquaman were speaking in Greek before the translation spell, I caught the word "anax" for "king", which I remembered from some high school classes I'd taken in Homeric Greek.

The second was that I recall wondering about Prince Orm's loyalty, and whether he was telling the truth when he stated that he wasn't troubled by Aquaman soon to become a father, even if that pushed him down the line of succession. I've learned since that, in both the comics and the show, he actually was a villain (and even, in Season One, one of the members of the Light), but I didn't know that at the time. I *ad*, however, seen enough cases of a king having a scheming younger brother who plots his way to the throne (especially once the king has a son and heir) - Prince John to Richard the Lion-hearted, Richard III to Edward IV, Claudius to Hamlet's father, even Scar in "The Lion King" - to wonder if the same might happen with Orm. I think it's a good comment on how they made "Young Justice" accessible to viewers who didn't know much about the source material.

Todd Jensen

Things are a little slow this week, hope that's not a sign of 2020 stretching out even further.
Anyway, watched "Downtime" today which is not only our first Aqualad-centered episode but one that gives us a good look at Atlantean society. Atlantis is something of a tricky issue in comics due to the long held belief that such a setting is just boring, though I'd say that's more from a lack of imagination on the part of the writers rather than the setting, as any oceanographer will tell you.

But before covering Aqualad I want to cover the rest of the Team and how their downtime affects their lives. For starters there's Robin and his underlying resentment about being kept out of the conversation between Kaldur and Batman (even if it was none of his business). We'll see more of this later but it's clear that Robin is still just a little angry over the fact that he wasn't chosen as leader and tries to not-so-subtly work his way into the decision maker's table. At the same time Batman is aware enough to cheer Robin up in his own distinct way, we'll see how this will change by season 3.

as I mentioned before, Wally is probably the most teenager-esque member of the group which means he has the least amount of baggage. I really like the closeness of the various Flash members acting as one big family, it's not often in other media where you get to see the whole of the superhero history especially in the form of three generations of Flashes. On the other hand we also get a look into Artemis' home life and the little problems there. We see like the rest her mother is aware of her life as a hero, and that there are stipulations to being a hero. Though this has more to do with the fact that Paula is insistent on making sure Artemis has the opportunities for a better life that she couldn't provide. Not much about M'gann and Superboy except the continuing ship tease between the two, though I like to think that maybe Superboy finds the static on TV soothing. A kind of white noise he can just relax to.

This is an interesting episode for Kaldur because it's one of the few times we get to see him really relax and socialize with his peers. I like the awkwardness that follows as the most stoic member of the group opens up more than we've ever seen him do before and his friends trying to break it to him as gently as possible. You know there's something kinda tragic about his situation, he's feeling heartsick about his crush and trying to convince himself it's homesickness, then he returns and finds his two best friends are dating and right after he learns that there's a terrorist attack.

And despite the above claim of the setting of Aquaman setting being boring, they really ratchet up the tension once the attack begins. And honestly the action of this episode may be one of my favorite pieces of season 1 if not the entire series. We get to see just how behind Kaldur is in terms of sorcery when compared to Garth, Tula and Mera who can conjure up miniaturized storms and sea creatures made of water. At the same time Kaldur also shows just what he can do in hand-to-hand and even pulls a Robin at one point, I like to say that if the other Atlanteans are the spellcasters of the group then Kaldur is the magic knight, someone who mixes sword and sorcery together.

And of course there's Black Manta, I've mentioned before this may be my favorite incarnation of the character and not just because of his future story involvement, his design is just amazing. Instead of the skintight bodysuit from the comics he has a more armored look, the helmet isn't ovular and with the silver underneath it looks more like a manta ray. There isn't the large tubes in the back which I always said would most likely be ripped off in a fight and the eyes are sleeker and more sinister. Combine that with all the weapons he's packing and the great look his sub and henchmen are sporting and you have one heck of a villain.

Some Final Thoughts: Anyone catch the title of the sitcom playing at the Crock house? Nice foreshadowing. I like the lengths they went to in order to hide what was frozen into the ice, such as first referring to it by its scientific name of "echinoderm." And even its classic comics coloration is closer to an actual sea star. This episode throws a lot of Aquaman's characters around but the mermaid who casts the translation spell is actually from Superman, her name is Lori Lemaris and was at one point a love interest for Supes.

The magic depicted is great but I like how it ties into each character's icons, Tula's resembles an eddy and her specialty is creating a massive whirlpool while Kaldur's resemble eels and his favorite construct is an eel like sea serpent. Garth's look like swirling clouds of a hurricane and he's able to summon the power of the tempest (a nod to his second alias in the comics) while Mera's is an octopus and she's able to create one big enough to protect the whole palace.

There's a couple of acting MVP's this episode (that's going to happen more and more in the series). The first goes to Khary Payton doing double work as Kaldur and Black Manta, I rather like how his voice changes not only from youth to adult but how Kaldur goes from quietly optimistic to deadly serious during the attack to just slightly bitter when he says Garth's place is with Tula. The other goes to Kath soucie as Mera, she nails the regality of the character quite well and totally gets both the motherly teacher and warrior queen parts of her character too.

DC Profiles: Garth was in fact the first Aqualad from the comics and a founding member of the Teen Titans, I like that they remembered to have his eyes purple. And like so many sidekicks he's been used as a narrative punching bag by DC, seriously nothing goes right for this guy. I remember reading in an interview that Greg was inspired by the elves from Lord of the Rings when it came to the design and you can really see it in Garth.
So when Aquaman was written off as a lame superhero it wasn't just the Super Friends that contributed to it, Topo was one of several animal sidekicks Aquaman collected and he was an octopus. Not an octopus-headed Atlantean just an octopus. I love the various designs of the Atlanteans and we'll see how Atlantean culture deals with that in the future.

Favorite Lines:

Aqualad: I am sorry you had to intervene. I know the team performed poorly.
Batman: The team performed adequately. The problem was you. You're their leader, and your head wasn't in the game.
Aqualad: No! You are...correct. Of late, I am not even convinced I belong on the surface world. For so many years, it filled my every thought. But now that I am here, my dreams are all of Atlantis.
Batman: Atlantis or someone you left behind? You can split your time between the surface and the sea. But not your mind. Either you're here one hundred percent or you need to walk away. Make a decision Kaldur, and make it soon.

Orm: Then it is all a diversion. But with the King away, I must protect the Queen... and the heir.
Mera: I need no protection. Go!
Orm: No, Mera. If you suffered any injury, my brother would never forgive me.
Kaldur: The Prince is right, my Queen. This battle is mine!

Black Manta: Such a waste. You really have no ambition beyond serving Aquaman? Aren't schools of others willing to die for their king? This fool for example.

Kaldur: I wish you both, nothing but the best...Have you ever wondered what would have happened if I had stayed behind and you had become Aqualad?
Garth: Never.
Kaldur: No. Neither have I.

Remember, young or old, rich or poor, friend or foe. We're all in this together

i am very confused at the moment i looked on google they said Gargoyales was canceled becaues of OJ Simopson, and greg said it wasn't a hit i am super confused plz help
sanjeev tugnait - [sports_crazy_fanforever at hotmail dot com]


Last Countdown in 2020.


Well I don't know how many episodes are in post production but the news from last November is that all scripts are complete and and 22 of 26 episodes were recorded.

Also third.

Remember, young or old, rich or poor, friend or foe. We're all in this together

how many episodes of young justice phantoms are in post production?
how many voice records are finished?

Naomi - [naominewman30 at yahoo dot com]

Todd Jensen