MASTERDRAMON> Indeed, you'd imagine a society of psychic shapeshifters would be more empathetic and accepting but... Nope.
Algae
Back when I first started at the very beginning, I was always trying to be old and grumpy and important, like you do when you're young.
posted @ Sun, Jul 25, 2021 3:43:52 pm EDT from 86.45.213.143

Karrin: Don't know if I'd go that far. Nice as the idea sounds, we know that being natural shapeshifters didn't prevent Martian society from developing racial discrimination, so I'm not sure why gender discrimination would be any different.

As Greg has noted previously, every Martian is both a shapeshifter AND a telepath, meaning it's impossible to "pass" in their society. You're constantly going to be radiating a signal of "this is what I was when I was born" to everyone around you, which would arguably lead to more stringent cultural roles and norms, not less.

It may or may not be a coincidence that M'Gann's struggles in "Image" resonated with a lot of non-cis viewers, because I can easily imagine that an actual trans Martian would have a really cruddy time of it based on what we've seen of their society.
Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"There may be a place for me in this man's soul. Not because of what I may receive, but for something of worth I may have for him." - Casca
posted @ Sun, Jul 25, 2021 2:15:01 pm EDT from 98.150.138.224

Yeah, it was in a set where the rose was also colored red and in Nightwing black and blue.

Honestly, I'd expect that to sort of be the norm for Martians - after all, they're aliens, and shapeshifter psychics besides, so their ideas of gender are probably incredibly far removed from Earth's (Actually it's been one of my headcanons for a while that Martians who have kids will trade off who has which role, unless one has an especially strong preference.)

Also, is anyone watching the Olympics? I've only seen bits and pieces so far, but I'm going to try and catch the rock-climbing next week, and probably some of the fencing.
Karrin Blue
posted @ Sun, Jul 25, 2021 10:32:13 am EDT from 68.9.91.142

KARRIN> Huh...? Didn't know about that Chris Jones art. I may have to re-evaluate some assumptions.

For what it's worth, I definitely think Miss Martian is pan just based on this...

https://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=22666
Algae
Back when I first started at the very beginning, I was always trying to be old and grumpy and important, like you do when you're young.
posted @ Sat, Jul 24, 2021 10:56:35 am EDT from 86.45.213.143

Well, to each their own. I do have to say, I read most of the OG Team as, if not all bi, then not cishet, not just Dick. It's a mix of, things in the show that give me a particular vibe, the long history of superhero narratives and particularly superhero coming of age narratives and queer readings, and... well, it can be fun to look for yourself in the characters you enjoy, even if it's in ways that are accidental or, if intentional, under the radar to get past the execs.

Though that does remind me, Christopher Jones did some fanart of Nightwing's YJ design with a rose colored in the bi pride colors many years ago, for some fandom event or another. Obviously that'd only his own view, and one from a long time ago at that, but it did make me pretty happy to see, way back when.

Also (sorry for the topic change) some more of the Garfield-centric questions came out of the queue... I always assumed Perdita knew about the Team after, well, Coldhearted? Or in some adventure after that, since she seems to recognize Superboy at the party in Markovia. I always sort of figured that Vertigo tried enough schemes to take the throne that the Team thwarted that she figured out the gist, and promised her secrecy.
Karrin Blue
posted @ Fri, Jul 23, 2021 9:37:22 pm EDT from 68.9.91.142

KARRIN> I begrudge no one their headcanons. But as a bisexual who's only ever had one serious partner jmyself, I personally don't get that vibe of Grayson16.
Algae
Back when I first started at the very beginning, I was always trying to be old and grumpy and important, like you do when you're young.
posted @ Fri, Jul 23, 2021 7:49:41 pm EDT from 86.45.213.143

Not necessarily. Some people are bi and end up only dating only people of one gender, either because they don't realize they're bi for a while, or they're not out, or because they just happen to not run into people of other genders that they fall in love with, or any number of reasons. Someone's sexuality is something they decide for themselves, not something they have to qualify for based on how many relationships they have with who.

And, that all being said, it's entirely possible Dick has had romantic relationships with men that just haven't come up, for whatever reason. In issue 20, Zatanna even says that Dick is still on good terms with all his exes - not ex girlfriends. He might not have dated other men on the Team (off the top of my head, most of them were in settled relationships already), but if we want to get extremely technical nothing in YJ suggests he hasn't had a past fling or two with men. And when it comes to comics, I think it's been implied a time or two (or more), if in plausibly deniable ways.

Also, I have to say, re: Troia, my thought was rather that the Amazons made her because Diana entered World War II - they thought she should have a companion, so they made her one.
Karrin Blue
posted @ Fri, Jul 23, 2021 7:12:40 pm EDT from 68.9.91.142

KARRIN> I'd personally find it easier to headcanon Dick as buy if he'd only had one or two known romantic/sexual partners. But statistically, it's hard too imagine any bisexual man getting it on as much as Grayson16 without having at least one dude in his Little Black Book.

MATTHEW> Actually, Troia's age aligns pretty well with a theory our very own Masterdramon shared with me a few years back. [SPOILER] Namely, that Diana found Troia during her first stint in Man's World back in the 1920s-40s. [/SPOILER]
Algae
Back when I first started at the very beginning, I was always trying to be old and grumpy and important, like you do when you're young.
posted @ Fri, Jul 23, 2021 6:52:22 pm EDT from 86.45.213.143

>Antiyonder

Assuming Greg is using gay in the sense where it's someone exclusively attracted to someone of their same gender identity, and not the colloquial sense where it's the same as being queer generally, I think he actually might mean Bart is the one of those four who the crew thinks of as gay? The others seem to be in or have had happy and mutually agreeable romantic relationships with women, so they'd be bi or poly or pan, or so on. Meanwhile Bart has a blink-and-you'll-miss-it kiss with Eduardo in a few episodes.

Though, I personally tend to read Dick as being bi, and given the BatCat drama, I wouldn't be surprised if DC had some internal mandate about keeping him straight. There's definitely some comics that imply it very heavily, but to my knowledge that's as far as it's gone.

Huh, now I'm trying to do math on birthdays. So Tara was 13 in July of Year 6/2016, 15 in October of Year 8/2018, and 16 by the end of Year 9/2019... so her birthday has to be in the first half of the year? Well, I guess that doesn't narrow it down much, either way.

It is pretty funny to me Superboy's shirts are actually more faded just because they're still the same ones from S1, just after 8 years of washing.

I am a little intrigued by Bette definitely being Kate's cousin still - maybe we'll see Flamebird in s4?
Karrin Blue
posted @ Fri, Jul 23, 2021 6:07:30 pm EDT from 68.9.91.142

Got some interesting this time around, like Troia being 78 years old chronologically but 20 biologically. That does clarify some things about her origin, I feel we can safely say that she's a proper Amazon given her slow aging process.

Another detail I liked was that Black Canary did check on the Team from time to time. A good reminder that therapy isn't a one and done kind of deal.
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Fri, Jul 23, 2021 5:18:27 pm EDT from 64.85.245.77

So one bit I find interesting is that there is a YJ character who isn't allowed to be LGBT: - https://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=24277

- https://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=24301

I'm thinking Dick Grayson right up there with "Batman would never do that to Catwoman".

Which as far as the latter goes, you can have Batman kidnapping Dick Grayson Age 12, slapping him, calling him r******d, forcing him to eat rats. Even Young Bruce touching his dead mom's breast. All in a book not even warning about the content yet the adult rated show with consentual actions between Bats and Cats is unallowed. Of course:-D.
Antiyonder
posted @ Fri, Jul 23, 2021 5:15:51 pm EDT from 71.93.3.194

Even after the site was 'down' for a bit, it's fun to see that we're already at the 2019 questions :D

On the little thought-exercise here, https://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=24352, Rebellion does seem to hit the major arc in the first season (especially in the subtle 'acting out' rebellion from our 'don't call us sidekicks' Team founders). I'd also think Secrets could have been another way to effectively hit the nail the head. d:
Phoenician
Gus: "I always forget you're there." Hooty: "I forget I'm here toooooo."
posted @ Fri, Jul 23, 2021 3:16:32 pm EDT from 68.2.64.232

Hey hey, we're back! We'll have to thank Gorebash next time we see him.

I'll probably return to the reviews starting next week, in the meantime I'm just enjoying the break and how much talk "Evolution" has brought.
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Thu, Jul 22, 2021 6:16:01 pm EDT from 64.85.245.77

I've wondered whether some of Vandal Savage's sentiments in "Auld Acquaintances" were based on a suspicion that the presence of the Justice League might lead to a tendency for "non-super humanity" to become too dependent on the super-heroes, increasingly letting them solve all the big dangers (whether natural catastrophes or super-villain attacks) facing Earth (I'm not a super-hero expert, but I've picked up that a periodic convention - almost cliche - in the genre is that if the super-hero's incapacitated, the city he's protecting, or the Earth itself if the super-hero's reach is global enough, is absolutely helpless, easy pickings for the villains. "Young Justice" doesn't seem to have gone this far, from what I can recall, of course).

Incidentally, on last week's "Owl House". While it hasn't yet done any official nods to "Gargoyles" as "Duck Tales" and "Amphibia" have done, [SPOILER] I found myself recalling my earlier analysis of the role of the Hunters in that series when the Golden Guard's real name was revealed. Given the overall resonances of the word "Hunter", however, I doubt it was designed as a specific tribute [/SPOILER].
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, Jul 22, 2021 1:49:29 pm EDT from 68.98.34.170

Meant to post this last week...

The more I think about Evolution, the more I think we may have mis-characterized Savage as a Social Darwinist*. Yes there's his “survival of the fittest” spiel to the chipped Leaguers in Auld Acquaintance but he has every reason to obfuscate his true agenda from his enemies. By contrast, I'd argue what we see from Olympia and Cassandra is a about as unfiltered a look at Savage's personal ideology as we're ever gonna get.

“For war is death, and death is waste. A life should not be wasted while it may yet be controlled to serve a greater purpose.”

Someone who believes “death is waste” can hardly object to the League saving innocent bystanders from natural disasters or rampaging super-villains (as long as they're doing it on his terms of course). You'd expect a “true” Social Darwinist to rejoice in the death of Kalibak's metateen bomb. After all, if they were truly “fit to survive”, they wouldn't have let themself be enslaved by Darkseid in the first place.

He's not Apocalypse over at Marvel, fomenting superpowered race war in the belief that the handful of survivors will eventually repopulate the post-armmeggedon Earth with metahuman ubermench. Such a world would be easy prey for Darkseid, Starro or any other hostile extraterrestrial.

If anything, his “Darwinism” seems more collectivist than individualistic. He's less interested in returning Humanity to some Hobbsian “war of all against all” than establishing a galactic hegemony, preferably with a minimum of bloodshed. Buuut if individuals must ocassionaly be sacrificed... Well, it's for the good of the species.

Plus he's sure as heck not content to sit back and let “Natural Selection” take its course, spending almost a millenium doing everything in his power to rig the game in Homo sapiens favour.

*Let's bracket for the moment the fact that most RL “Social Darwinists” are just dime-store racists and plutocrats using a hodge-podge of Victorian pseudoscience buzzwords to rationalize their BS and assume a more (theoretically) meritocratic “Make everyone fight and whoever wins, wins” definition of Social Darwinism.
Algae
?
posted @ Thu, Jul 22, 2021 1:13:24 pm EDT from 86.45.213.143

THe room is operating normally again! Let us rejoice and give thanks!
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, Jul 22, 2021 12:48:00 pm EDT from 68.98.34.170

I really wanted to keep a good schedule with two reviews a week, one at the beginning and one near the end. Mostly because I wanted keep a good writing habit.
But this break has been a bit refreshing.
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Tue, Jul 20, 2021 2:12:00 am EDT from 64.85.245.77

Y'know, when you started doing the S3 reviews, I considered checking and posting the day we'd finish season 3 to compare to the con dates, FanDome, when we might expect to get new information, just to see how much of a dead zone there was. I decided against that, since it seemed presumptuous to assume you'd never want to take a break from writing them, and tempting fate besides, since who knows why things might get delayed.

Turns out fate got tempted anyways, I guess!
Karrin Blue
posted @ Mon, Jul 19, 2021 9:27:44 pm EDT from 68.9.91.142

Hello all, just popping in. And hoping things get fixed sometime this week.
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Mon, Jul 19, 2021 5:17:31 pm EDT from 64.85.245.77

Hello from last Tuesday (~let's do the time warp again~)
Karrin Blue
posted @ Mon, Jul 19, 2021 4:06:19 pm EDT from 68.9.91.142

Second

But also, this may already be old news, apologies if it is, but if any of you are board gamers, august 1 in Target stores exclusive board game called Disney Gargoyles Awakening. It’s not yet on their website though, but here is the ad copy.

In Disney Gargoyles: Awakening, which is named after the TV show, players each represent one of six Gargoyles characters — Goliath, Brooklyn, Lexington, Broadway, Hudson, or NYPD detective Elisa Maza — fight against baddies Xanatos and Demona in one of four scenarios on a three-dimensional cityscape board showing Manhattan as it was depicted in the cartoon. Three of the scenarios are co-operative, while the final one is not:

"Reawakening" — Face off against Xanatos and Demona to save Coldstone's mind.
"Temptation and Magic" — Defeat Demona, who has stolen the Grimorum Arcanorum to enslave innocents.
"Information Warfare" — Collect three stolen data disks on behalf of Xanatos.
"Battle with the Steel Clan" — One player takes control of Xanatos and the Steel Clan, aiming to defeat a hero or destroy the police tower, while the other players try to stop them as the Gargoyles.
SomeGeek
posted @ Mon, Jul 19, 2021 6:10:47 am EDT from 69.255.232.158

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Jalapeña!
Egon Pax
posted @ Mon, Jul 19, 2021 4:08:07 am EDT from 31.150.242.236