Aldrius> [SPOILER] The character is Rictus and in the comics he (she in the show proper) is a cyborg obsessed with bettering themselves by replacing their flesh with machinery. Kinda reminds me of the Six Million Dollar Mon from Futurama. I haven't watched Evangelion so I'll take your word for it though. [/SPOILER]
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Sat, Nov 13, 2021 10:01:31 pm EST from 64.85.245.77

[SPOILER] It was just an awkward sequence of events I guess. Maybe an odd point to end the episode at, just to leave things on a cliffhanger? It's also just an odd note to end the episode on because while Jade has let her sister down, she's also gone above and beyond and way out of her way to help her too. I think after the episode was so strong it just ends on kind of a clunky inconclusive note. Which obviously is to set up for next week, but it just felt weak especially after everything else was so strong.

And like I said, I'm not sure how they could have made it stronger. But it was just a little disappointing. [/SPOILER]
Alex (Aldrius)
posted @ Sat, Nov 13, 2021 1:00:50 pm EST from 70.48.44.157

[SPOILER] Really? It seemed like a fairly overt callback to me - we had two references to it earlier in the episode, it's not a very natural phrase so it sticks out, and it's followed by Artemis remembering that the last time Jade used that code with her, she never showed up and Artemis was the one to get punished. I'm not sure how they could have drawn more attention to it without having Artemis say out loud 'Huh, that was our old meet up code from when we were kids' - which would've been weird for her to explain to two people she can't trust, and which might have come off as too... not giving the audience enough credit, when we're only 50% through this story arc.

It's possible one or both of them has been mentally tampered with as well - false memories being inserted, so they think their story is correct? Psimon is still active, after all.

And I hadn't seen the new loglines, but yep, looks like it's Zatanna time. I really wonder what the theme will be for the other 3 - Atlantean words would be the only thing I can see matching Kaldur (aside from water puns) but unless they make someone translate what each word means in the episodes it might be confusing. And Rocket and Nightwing, I have no idea. [/SPOILER]
Karrin Blue
posted @ Sat, Nov 13, 2021 7:50:59 am EST from 68.9.91.142

[SPOILER] I just thought it was weird that the show didn't draw attention to Cheshire using their password, it was like it forgot about it, but I'm not sure how it would have showcased that honestly.

I'm starting to suspect this is maybe a test to see who is the mole because I just don't see why else Cheshire would need to secretly meet Artemis after that scene. Granted even so, putting out your neck to see if anyone chops it off still sounds risky.

Oh, from that... robot character who's name I don't remember did anyone get some *serious* Mass Production Eva vibes? [/SPOILER]
Alex (Aldrius)
posted @ Sat, Nov 13, 2021 6:45:21 am EST from 70.48.44.157

The next arc is definitely Zatanna-centered considering the episode after "I Know Why the Caged Cat Sings" is titled "Odnu" and the description is all about Zatanna hand her proteges.

[SPOILER] You're right that we are in need of a denouement in the same vein as "Usual Suspects" and "Summit." I think Cheshire gave Artemis the head's up because she might've figured out which one is the proper defector and which is the mole and could risk revealing it in front of the two of them.
A thought just occurred. A while back someone floated the idea that one or both of them could be Cadmus clones, programmed specifically for infiltration. Back in Season 2 during the raid to rescue the original Roy Harper, they found him in a cold storage unit. Could Cheshire have possibly seen other clones stashed away and is just now remembering them? [/SPOILER]
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Fri, Nov 12, 2021 4:55:04 pm EST from 64.85.245.77

KARRIN> [SPOILER] My guess is the next arc before the hiatus will be Zatanna-centric. If the pattern holds, Kaldur, Dick and Rocket will each get their own arcs in the later half of the season. [/SPOILER]
Algae
The sword is the tool of a soldier, one who fights at the behest of others, a servant to the Power. The scepter, on the other hand, this is the totem of a true ruler.
posted @ Fri, Nov 12, 2021 4:17:50 pm EST from 217.183.44.235

[SPOILER] Yes, Cheshire did give her the code, they're just letting us stew in the tension of whether or not Artemis believes her, whether Artemis acted on the tip before taking off for the island, and what Cheshire is planning, just like they're having us wonder what else she's planning. They're structuring this so that it's basically a mini-movie about each character - which is also why the boys haven't shown up outside of morning Conner yet, it's not their turns. Similarly Artemis will probably show up for their stuff, but her plot will conclude in the next two weeks.
[/SPOILER]
Karrin Blue
posted @ Fri, Nov 12, 2021 1:43:21 pm EST from 72.10.127.194

[SPOILER] Yeah, Artemis going to the island alone just seems insane and extremely naïve to me. Also didn't Cheshire give Artemis their secret code in that last scene? I was expecting a follow up scene with them meeting on a rooftop or something and it didn't happen.

I LOVED this episode, easily my favourite of the season. There was a tight focus on Artemis and Cheshire, there were cute little touches like the Vietnamese gift Cheshire gave Artemis. But the episode gave just the right amount of focus on the supporting characters that I felt like I got to know them more, but they didn't distract from the core elements. Also Josh Keaton is always a blast, and it's KIND of like having Spectacular Spider-man back.

The script I thought was really solid, the scene between Artemis and her new boyfriend was cute but the dialogue was... frigid. I really want more feeling out of these one-on-one interpersonal scenes and they're always sort of written very clinically. But I liked the character, and I like that Artemis is just dating a guy. That's really cool. Also cool to see her doing well. I really did get a strong sense of her being the team leader in this episode. And all her scenes between her and Cheshire were great. I think the writing team just has a much stronger beat on that relationship because it's *always* been really good consistently.

Now that it's episode 6 I'm starting to get a little "where's Nightwing? Where's Aquaman?" but I'm almost wondering if we're sort of breaking the cast down a bit so everyone gets an arc focusing on them. [/SPOILER]
Alex (Aldrius)
posted @ Fri, Nov 12, 2021 10:33:37 am EST from 70.48.44.157

[SPOILER] I'm pretty sure next episode's logline mentioning Oracle means we'll get a full rundown of Orphan's backstory (perhaps Barbara's been acting as her mentor and guardian, as in the comics?) But I still think her bisecting Clayface was her wanting to reveal him ASAP and knowing that being chopped up wouldn't do any harm to him. Her preference for swords strikes me as a 'raised by Lady Shiva, who prefers swords herself' thing more than her caring less about doing lethal damage, and her drawing on Cheshire, to me, feels like it's more about how she remembers Jade from the Shadows and was more concerned she might actually try to follow through on that 'kill them both' idea. Or that's my working theory, anyways.

I do hope Artemis has at least told the others where she's going; it's a very risky gamble to to straight to the island with no backup, even with Shiva's threat, but when the rest of the Team and League hear from Halo that the Vault was raided by Black Spider, or if they roll back the security footage, they'll know right away that everything is probably going down on Santa Prisca, and if Artemis didn't give them a heads up they'd probably try to launch their own rescue. Certainly Oracle will find out somehow, since we know she's involved, so... hm. It's been a while since we got a 'everything you saw earlier changes completely when you know what they were planning' episode, and I have a feeling this might be one of those. [/SPOILER]
Karrin Blue
posted @ Fri, Nov 12, 2021 8:53:35 am EST from 72.10.127.194

So my thoughts on "Artemis Through the Looking-Glass"
[SPOILER] I had wondered if Nick Chinlund's appearance as Sportsmaster would be a one episode thing but it looks like the flashbacks are showing just how abusive he was to his daughters, especially Artemis. There's probably more to see in the coming episodes but I feel this more than anything was the catalyst to Artemis' more cynical outlook in season 1. Her father beat out her innocence and tried to get rid of her innocence. But Jade leaving her hanging? That took away her hope. Because for the briefest moment the two of them had a mutual secret that they could share. One away from the presence of their father. But leaving her to face her Crock all by herself, that's when she stopped living and had to start surviving.

So the Shadows have definitely gotten smarter over the years, Black Spider can't take either Cheshire or Orphan hand to hand so he spends his time out of reach, taking away their weapons and disrupting their attacks with his webs. And Rictus (there's an obscure one) is an unknown factor so the most experienced hero doesn't know how to counter her. And then there's the matter of Lady Shiva, who seems to have inherited David Cain's worst traits. I figure that Greg doesn't want to repeat the abusive father theme once more but this is going even further than what he did. Severing her vocal cords? Yikes.

One thing I really liked about this episode was how much character we got from Cassandra (Orphan) without having her speak or even see her face. Like refusing to give up watching Onyx and other Cassandra or how quick she is to draw her blade, possibly with lethal intent. I hypothesized that she was so quick to bisect Clayface because she knew hand-to-hand was useless against him, but it looks like the worst of her violent impulses haven't been dealt with yet. This is a big thing since her very origin is swearing off killing after murdering a man traumatized her so much. I wonder if we'll see something like that by the end of this.

This episode has a huge foreboding nature to it. Artemis is walking straight into the lion's den with two people she can't fully trust, and a part of that is kinda her own fault. Ever since season 1 she's had a huge thing about solving things involving the Shadows by herself. But she's the leader of the Team now and a bridge between the older heroes and the newer ones. There's no reason she couldn't get a member of the League involved in watching over Savage but...Well, I can't help but wonder if she's walking straight into a trap. With the Onyx and Cassandra there to infiltrate, snag Orphan as the bait, and then take their place as the two jaws meant to ensnare Artemis. The only things that might shake things up being Shade and his favor to Cheshire, Cheshire herself and Halo walking in to see the aftermath. And of course Orphan isn't going to go down without a fight.

Man the situation with Beast Boy is bad, even before the trip he was down in the dumps over the lingering guilt over Brion. Now with the loss of Conner, I'd say that therapy is needed now more than ever. But the situation with Brion is interesting, despite his takeover from his brother, we haven't seen him turn tyrant thus far. In fact he really seems to want to do what Gregor only talked about and offer safe haven to meta-humans. And what's going on with Vlatava is just as interesting considering Perdita hasn't shied away from supporting meta's either, so her country is now in this awkward position. I have this feeling that our Bad Samaritan is subtly stoking the fears of the less than open minded Markovian citizens in order to create unrest between the two countries.

And finally, so Artemis is seeing Jason Bard, that soldier Conner "rescued" during "Failsafe?" Interesting, though I can't imagine he'll be sticking around for long, especially if Artemis finds out about Zatanna and M'gann's little trick with Limbo and Wally. Plus there's the fact that Artemis is introducing his dog before him. Oh, and apparently Onyx is related to the Amazing-Man? They don't have that connection in the comics so I wonder if that's a lie or something new to the show, or maybe something she actually believes. So we saw in season 1 that even people like Ivo can learn to block out telepaths and we also saw that Shadows are mentally conditioned too, it's possible that Onyx might be a sleeper and not even know it. [/SPOILER]
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Fri, Nov 12, 2021 7:05:22 am EST from 73.170.229.149

Another good episode! My thoughts are a lot more scattered today, so...

[SPOILER] Some quality banter this week! The sisters have some great back and forth, and the others got some good ones in too. I especially loved Onyx's 'she still goes by Artemis Crock, it took me three minutes online' - I suppose Artemis has rather given up on hiding anything, considering any job she'd want would run a background check and her ex-con mother is probably on her insurance, and she relies on anyone who knows one of Sportsmaster's kids is the heroine Tigress being smart enough to know that attacking the house would be a stupid game with terminally stupid prizes, but still.

I don't have high expectations for Jason Bard's survival or, at least, continuing to be in this relationship, but he seems nice? We'll see if he sticks around, I guess.

Ok, I really hope Dou Hong runs an AMA or something because I need to know: did she seriously make Lia's look 'what if Daphne Blake were a Scottish telepath'? Seriously, with the red hair and the purple with green highlights and the being voiced by Grey DeLisle...

Orphan was a delight and, if you'll permit a little gloating, hah I knew her sword preference was a clue on her being raised by Shiva. Who apparently didn't want to take any chances on that whole 'never hear or speak language' thing. I'm also quite curious as to what Shiva's plan is for the Cass swap, because I don't see her wanting to let Orphan go once she has her... and while 'Cassandra offers herself as the trade' could be a way to cement her place on the Team if she's a mole, the Assassins would have to throw the fight very convincingly.

I also noticed how Shade seemed a bit ashamed that Jade saw him. He does owe her, so maybe that'll come into play for a last minute save.

Garfield is hurting my heart, though. I get the feeling Cassie and Wendy aren't actually oblivious - they have to know what happened, and Cassie was on the Team with Conner too - but are just trying to be normal and give him opportunities to get his mind off it by keeping busy and helping people. Unfortunately Gar is in the emotionally dead, can't deal with anything that even gets near his feelings zone right now... hopefully Black Canary will be able to visit soon.

The bit we got of Markovian politics is also interesting. I'd wondered why Perdita mentioned not being able to tell if the refugee concerns were legitimate - surely she wouldn't say that if people told her there were crackdowns on dissidents or anything? - and well. Unfortunately, it seems the people still don't like metas or foreigners. It's unsurprising but depressing, really. And I'm quite curious to check in on Markovia more thoroughly - how many of those metas are being funneled to the military or labs, how well is Brion managing to handle his cabinet, how much of that calm, welcoming demeanor is him faking it for the cameras, how much is he faking it for everyone around him, and how much does he actually believe? And how much is Baazovi sneaking in where he's not looking...

And finally - so that was probably Kraig in the credits, huh. Of course the Genomorphs were his number one fans. And well - I'm not sure what the full significance of the Alice quote was (mutual believing in each other as a 'I believe in you as a hero' thing instead of 'I believe you exist'?) But I'm suddenly quite concerned what next week's credits might be. The Lady or the Tiger is not a very long story and there really aren't any bits from it that would make for a good quote without being about barbarism or brutality, and I shudder to think what they'll be playing over. In the best way, of course. [/SPOILER]

And I think you're probably right on about the Morrow-bots, Matthew. The Reds seem to be able to learn from experience, but even if the Morrowbots can improve in some ways - better processors, using more up to date manufacturing methods - they can't truly innovate. Maybe he didn't want to risk any of the Morrowbots no longer being him?
Karrin Blue
posted @ Thu, Nov 11, 2021 10:04:27 pm EST from 68.9.91.142

Very interesting. I like the characters and everything on it. This is an amazing site!
residential damage restoration nashville - [ortabow1 at gmail dot com]
Be the best!
posted @ Thu, Nov 11, 2021 6:05:46 am EST from 203.189.118.3

This is interesting. I really like the character design of the animation!
SYD - [sydwallpapering at gmail dot com]
ML
posted @ Thu, Nov 11, 2021 3:58:46 am EST from 115.64.23.167

Yeah, it's not something I put a lot of thought into, the whole "I think the Illuminati control things in order to justify my anti-Semitic, persecution complex" is just too much crazy for me to deal with. How ironic that they were founded in part to oppose superstitions during the age of Enlightenment, and now it's associated solely with superstitions.

But looking at the other questions answered, it's still bizarre thinking about characters I'm the same age of, or older than. Like finding out that I'm the same age as Lynn Stewart Pierce just feels...off.

But one thing that stands out to me is the revelation that there have been dozens of T. O. Morrow bots over the years. I mean he was already a grown adult back in the 40's so it stands to reason that he would start making his machine proxies sooner rather than later. But it also makes me wonder about Ivo's snarky remark, "Morrow's skills have been in a coma since the 1940's." The Reds are incredibly powerful pieces of technology, but even after all those years and data gathered, Red Volcano is still just a bigger and stronger version of his older brother and sister and still locked into the one element limitation.

I wonder if Morrow-bot is unable to generally improve upon original-Morrow's designs. A kind of creative sterility coming from his machine nature. Alternatively, Red Tornado was designed to learn about humanity through infiltrating the Justice Society and thus learned about caring, empathy and eventually self-improvement. Perhaps the Morrow-bots own programing limited to just destroying the heroes made them unable to improve upon Morrow's creations and thus were unable to improve upon themselves as well.
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Wed, Nov 10, 2021 9:24:31 pm EST from 64.85.245.77

Just read Greg's response concerning the Illuminati. Thanks for asking that question Jurgan; that sort of stuff never really even occurs to me (naivete or just knowing how similar folks really are at the genetic level, I dunno, it just isn't how my brain works). I agree that there has to be a line where you say "if you take this as endorsement of it being True Reality, you need psychiatric assistance." There's also the difficulty of dealing with people acting in bad faith, so you're always gonna have people just looking to spread misery.
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!
posted @ Wed, Nov 10, 2021 12:51:08 pm EST from 184.54.103.20

>Matthew: That's what I thought you probably meant, but I wanted to say so just so it'd be clear

>Alex: No, 'nonbinary' means someone who doesn't identify with the gender binary. It's not a third gender with strict pronouns - rather, individual people are nonbinary, and sometimes those people have the same pronouns that they use, but that doesn't mean they or their pronouns define what being nonbinary is. Because nonbinariness is a term to get around strict, confining ideas of what a gender is.

And the problem people have with Halo being nonbinary is not actually anything to do with the show itself - rather, it's that as long as there aren't any human nonbinary characters, the show as a whole becomes part of a pattern we have in our media, where on a massive scale, characters who are nonbinary are never (or almost never) humans, and nonbinariness is tied to their alien-ness - the 'why would an alien follow the gender binary' explanation, that then seems to say that it's a given that all humans will fall into the gender binary. The problem is the forest, not any individual tree, but the only way the overall pattern becomes fairer is if individuals try and do better.
Karrin Blue
posted @ Wed, Nov 10, 2021 8:52:04 am EST from 72.10.127.194

I mean non-binary is both an indication of having some specific gender identity (i.e. your pronouns are *strictly* they/them and you expect those pronouns to be used.)

It's also a blanket term for things like genderqueer or questioning or even gender non-conforming (which I identify as incidentally, but I wouldn't say I'm non-binary). Or just a general sense of "sometimes I feel like a boy, sometimes I feel like a girl".

Like if there's an issue with Halo, that's kind of it, putting forth this idea that being nonbinary is an alien thing when it isn't. But that's kind of splitting hairs and being a bit too sensitive for my tastes.
Alex (Aldrius)
posted @ Wed, Nov 10, 2021 7:36:19 am EST from 70.48.44.157

Perhaps I should've worded that better. What I meant was I don't think Halo was quite sure about who they are in season 3 and whether they identified as nonbinary or not (especially since this was brought up not long after the revelation of Gabrielle and the Mother Box).

Either way, I figure will have a more definitive statement some time this season.
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Tue, Nov 9, 2021 9:19:33 pm EST from 64.85.245.77

KARRIN> Thanks for that. I was half-way through my workday before I realized I should have made that point.
Algae
The sword is the tool of a soldier, one who fights at the behest of others, a servant to the Power. The scepter, on the other hand, this is the totem of a true ruler.
posted @ Tue, Nov 9, 2021 3:38:10 pm EST from 217.183.44.235

This was really interesting and informative. Keep posting guys.
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NR
posted @ Tue, Nov 9, 2021 1:08:20 pm EST from 49.149.99.20

What if Gargoyles take place 26 years after the two seasons?
What would it look like in the future and the characters of the series?
john paul gontor - [jrgontor at gmail dot com]
gontor
posted @ Tue, Nov 9, 2021 10:06:16 am EST from 198.209.162.54

What if Gargoyles take place 26 years after the two seasons?
What would it look like in the future and the characters of the series?
john paul gontor - [jrgontor at gmail dot com]
gontor
posted @ Tue, Nov 9, 2021 10:05:27 am EST from 198.209.162.54

Who is Goliath's biological father?
john paul gontor - [jrgontor at gmail dot com]
gontor
posted @ Tue, Nov 9, 2021 10:00:54 am EST from 198.209.162.54

Yeah, and 'strictly nonbinary' is an oxymoron. 'Nonbinary' is not a third gender role, it's a wider blanket term (like 'queer') that encompasses many different experiences of and identities.
Karrin Blue
posted @ Tue, Nov 9, 2021 8:30:23 am EST from 72.10.127.194

MATTHEW> I'm a tad reluctant to apply any label to Halo until she claims one onscreen or Greg/Brandon clarifies in an interview. But I'd say Violet is "gender questioning" at least.

We only saw her just starting to consciously question her own gender in the later half of Outsiders, so I'm not surprised she was still defaulting to she/her as a placeholder while she figured things out. Plus plenty of out and proud non-binary folks do still use their assigned pronouns for one reason or another.
Algae
The sword is the tool of a soldier, one who fights at the behest of others, a servant to the Power. The scepter, on the other hand, this is the totem of a true ruler.
posted @ Mon, Nov 8, 2021 4:54:58 pm EST from 217.183.44.235

Given that viewers out of universe and characters in-universe treat Halo with feminine and neutral pronouns, I don't applying their status as strictly nonbinary works. Halo herself says she's not entirely sure, so the episode and characters give her some room to figure things out. Halo had no problem being called Brion's girlfriend rather than the more neutral term "partner" (which I understand is becoming more used in heterosexual relationships as well).

Now as for the representation thing, yes there's a problem with representation. There's a problem with getting a lot of different people represented. And rather unfortunately, there's a very vocal part of the comics community that lashes out at new representation. There's also a problem when characters are introduced merely as quotas to be checked rather than characters on their own. So finding representation, and finding good representation has become a bit of a challenge.
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Mon, Nov 8, 2021 4:35:46 pm EST from 64.85.245.77

I'm fully of the stance that, however they may have started, Violet Harper is 100% Homo Sapien now. They have a human name, had a human boyfriend, goes to human school and has even developed an interest in human religion. Funtionally, they're no different from any other meta-human at this point.
Algae
The sword is the tool of a soldier, one who fights at the behest of others, a servant to the Power. The scepter, on the other hand, this is the totem of a true ruler.
posted @ Mon, Nov 8, 2021 3:24:54 pm EST from 217.183.44.235

Oop, third, I guess. (Now fourth?) That's what I get for not checking the chat room again after I take a while making the post.

Yeah, that ask did seem pretty condescending to me as well, but the pattern is a real one. And on some level it makes sense why creators do this - after all, why on earth should an alien or a robot or what have you have an idea of the gender binary, when the very idea of that is incredibly shaped by one culture being dominant and having particular social norms, political, religious, etc, causes all running into each other, and other cultures throughout time have had very different conceptions of what gender means. But, of course, nonbinary people who talk about this issue don't mean 'the aliens should all fall into the Pink Ballerina Box or the Blue Football Box', they mean that nonhuman characters shouldn't be the only ones who get to be nonbinary. Really, in the end, the only thing I can think of to do with it is to just have nonbinary fantastical characters and also nonbinary humans - because 'only cis people get to be cool, super-powered beings who live amazing lives' is not really an improvement. And that's what we should be doing anyways, really - when you have many characters, no one of them has to be everything to everyone.

Though, that all being said, Halo is definitely a person. Saying she's not is like saying that Wonder Woman is a lump of clay pretending to be people, and so doesn't count as female representation. Halo clearly thinks, feels, remembers, forms bonds with others - she's one of the most human characters we have, and both the rest of the cast and the way she's built into the narrative treat her like she's a person. And really, it's completely disingenuous to treat personhood as narrowly applying to one homo sapiens being, in a universe with fish people, aliens, robots, gods, and more.
Karrin Blue
posted @ Mon, Nov 8, 2021 9:47:05 am EST from 72.10.127.194

Second!

Since last week's episode used its book title reference way more significantly than I thought it would, I thought I'd share my thoughts on what the other three titles in the arc might mean! I'll put them under spoilers in case anyone wants to go in totally blind, although this is just titles and references to the log lines.

[SPOILER]
Artemis Through The Looking Glass: of course, this is a reference to the sequel to Alice in Wonderland. The two levels I see this working on are, firstly, Artemis and Jade both reference the first Alice book (Artemis' perspective on her first time going out as a hero, Jade's name and iconic mask, that poster), so now that they've both grown up since that time, it makes sense we get a title named for the follow up book. More generally, Looking Glass is a book about opposites and reversals - in the world of the mirror, left is right, black is white, right is wrong. The rules that the characters are used to may be changed from what they understand, things they thought went for certain - like ideas on what someone's loyalties are, perhaps - are in question. The other motif that might come into play is the chess game (as Wonderland has its card suite courts, Looking Glass has chess), and well, we don't need to go into what a chess game might mean for a series all about manipulations and plans. Though I do have eyes on the idea of a pawn becoming a queen by crossing the board. And, while I think it's long odds the show incorporates the 'it was all a dream, and who's to say if Alice isn't someone else's dream' angle (that sort of meta commentary seems like more of a weird magic, lords of order and chaos and elementals, thing), I will be on the lookout for a nod to the 'Alice's kittens were the queens' bit, it just seems too good to pass up, if there's room for it.

The Lady, or the Tigress?: This is a reference to a famous short story, the Lady or the Tiger. A young man falls in love with a princess, but her father of course doesn't approve, and comes up with a trial by ordeal - he must blindly choose between two doors, one of which contains another woman the king has chosen to be an ideal match for the man, and one which contains a hungry tiger. The princess, being cunning, is able to work out which side has which door before the trial, and when the day comes, the man looks to her to see which to pick, and the story ends just as he opens the door, before we find out whether she chose for him to die loving her, or for him to live with another woman. It's all about putting your life in the hands of someone whose motives you don't know, whose own interests might be the opposite of yours, and 'the Lady or the Tiger' has become a byword for impossible choices. Given that we have two potential spies, whose stated motives have holes or don't explain anything, and since the log line mentions that Oracle is casting doubt on Artemis' new allies, I'm guessing this is the episode when a lot of the meat of the Onyx-Cassandra dilemma will be dealt with (especially if Looking Glass is mostly Nguyen-Crock family drama.) We'll see how many leaps of faith we get, I suppose!

I Know Why The Caged Cat Sings: This references Maya Angelou's I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings. Since it's her autobiography, and about growing up a black woman in the south, I don't expect a lot of references to the plot or the themes to do with anti-black racism, sexism, the intersection of the two - so I think the more relevant reference is probably the Caged Bird poem itself. That poem is about freedom, and defiance, and longing for the unknown because it has to be better than living in captivity. Jade is a character who seems to struggle with bonds - the emotional, relational ones she has to her family, the ties to her past, how she feels she'll always be Cheshire, never able to escape the worst part of herself that will always be a danger or harm to those she cares about. And, depending on how episode 7 goes, we will probably have learned more about what kind of cages Cassandra and Onyx are in - and possibly Orphan as well. There's also the possibility we'll see one or all of these characters literally caged, imprisoned. This arc seems to be thinking a lot about redemption, and who deserves it, so I wonder if it'll also touch on what redemption means and how one achieves it. Because that's something I've been wondering about for a while - Jade, although I love her, was an assassin, she killed people for money. There are people all over the world who lost friends and family to her. How does she reckon with that? Is stopping being an assassin, living an ordinary life with her family, enough? If not, who decides what is enough? If she went to trial, she would probably be in jail for years - but imprisonment rarely helps prisoners get better, and arguably doesn't do anything for the victims either. And then there's that Jade fell in with the assassins at age 13-ish, as someone who had been shaped by abuse and would probably have been a prime target for their cult conditioning. How much does that matter? I don't expect YJ to get into an extended debate on punitive vs restorative justice, of course, but how Jade intends to reckon for what she's done, and how much should be laid at her feet vs a system that took advantage of her, and how much her changed behavior and actions should be factored in, has been on my mind for a while and I'm curious to see if the show takes a position on it - and if they don't take the easy way out and have her sacrifice herself nobly to make the whole question moot. I don't think they'll go there, but we'll see.
[/SPOILER]

Whew, that's a lot. And hopefully at least some of it it actually going to be relevant when the episodes come out! It does make me wonder what the naming schemes will be for the other arcs - backwards words for Zatanna? Underwater puns or Atlantean words for Kaldur? Hmm...
Karrin Blue
posted @ Mon, Nov 8, 2021 9:28:18 am EST from 72.10.127.194

Second.

So I was going through Greg's responses last night, and I noticed the one about Halo. And... condescending tone aside, I think this is maybe worth discussing.

I think I mentioned before, but I've spoken with a lot of trans, in particular enby people before. And it is kind of a sticking point that very generally enby characters in fiction, are robots or some form of non-sexual being. Like a ghost or a spirit or an alien. Which can be very dehumanizing.

Having said that, I don't think Halo is a dehumanizing character. She's technically an alien robot ghost possessing a human girl's body, but she's also an extremely human character. So I'm not sure that the concern really applies.
Alex (Aldrius)
posted @ Mon, Nov 8, 2021 9:10:56 am EST from 70.48.44.157

First.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Nov 8, 2021 7:28:08 am EST from 70.176.217.135