Now I can't remember whether the pun was intentional when I said I'd be shocked if Livewire and Mist were just friends.
B
B
posted @ Sun, Jun 12, 2022 3:00:11 pm EDT from 74.74.246.146

So at the beginning of the season we introduce D designations now we have E's! I swear the creators have read my responses towards this and are trolling me... well played.
Kevin - [kevin dot nuckols at yahoo dot com]
Kevin Nuckols
posted @ Sat, Jun 11, 2022 10:53:44 pm EDT from 72.95.140.30

Young Justice has a few Milestone characters such as Rocket,Icon, Static,Hardware,and Holocaust.

What about the Blood Syndicate? They were created by the late Dwayne Mcduffie, the comic book writer who created Static,Icon & Rocket, and Hardware.
They are like the street version of the Justice League.
They are multicultural vigilante gang of metahumans in the DC Dakotaverse.
they were the surviving remnants of multiple street gangs who had gained superpowers in the so-called Big Bang, and decided to use them for a greater purpose.
I think in the next season of Young Justice, they will feature members of Blood Syndicate such as Wise Man,Tech-9,Fade,Flashback,Boogie Man,Third Rail,Brickhouse and Dogg.
John Paul Gontor - [jg0930047 at otc dot edu]
Gontor
posted @ Sat, Jun 11, 2022 7:42:55 pm EDT from 192.190.140.23

Thanks for the feedback Algae, kinda funny that "Kingdom Come" was referenced earlier this week since that was a big influence on the fic itself.
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Sat, Jun 11, 2022 6:08:34 pm EDT from 64.85.245.77

MATTHEW> No worries. Just shot you a new PM.
Algae
'Nuff said
posted @ Sat, Jun 11, 2022 4:45:39 pm EDT from 185.252.222.38

Algae> Thanks but I didn't get your email. So I think PM over on ff.net would be better.

[SPOILER] Completely forgot about the Collector of Worlds. So if Brainy is indeed his descendent then a lack of nose would make sense. [/SPOILER]
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Sat, Jun 11, 2022 4:23:05 pm EDT from 64.85.245.77

[SPOILER] Whenever I think of Braniac 5 I think of the JLU episode he appeared in where he was super hunky, so I'm always disappointed when he isn't. :P [/SPOILER]
Alex (or Aldrius)
Check out my anime podcast "Two Gays One Episode" on Spotify or YouTube!
posted @ Sat, Jun 11, 2022 2:29:08 pm EDT from 65.95.86.37

[SPOILER] Always found Braniac-5 attractive before, so I wasn't a fan of the lack of a nose. [/SPOILER]
B
B
posted @ Sat, Jun 11, 2022 10:19:36 am EDT from 74.74.246.146

MATTHEW> Really enjoyed the first chapter of your fic, emailed you some more specific thoughts. Or we can keep conversing via PM on FF.net if you prefer?

[SPOILER] I'm assuming B5 lack of nose was intended to evoke the "Collector of Worlds" design from the Invasion tie-in comic. [/SPOILER]
Algae
'Nuff said
posted @ Sat, Jun 11, 2022 9:32:17 am EDT from 185.252.222.36

I don't know how many people here have seen Disney's "Broken Karaoke" salute to sidekicks, but one of the sidekicks shown o it (if in the background) was Lexington.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Sat, Jun 11, 2022 8:38:10 am EDT from 70.176.217.135

[SPOILER] Allegedly there's a blink and you miss it scene where Bart basically glomps Ed? Warms my heart.

This finale was good. When the show gets REALLY self-indulgent like it does with the wedding scene, it's not really to my taste, but after 26 episodes of quality entertainment I suppose I can tolerate a bit of self-indulgence.

Lor-Zod's fate was *so* satisfying. I know he's just a teenager, but with how far he went out of his way to cause mayhem and grief for everyone... guy KIND OF deserved it. Also apparently Chameleon Boy is still a fascist, which is really funny to me. "No! No trials! Punish their children!"

All the cliffhangers from last week left me feeling ambivalent, so I'm glad that all got cleared up super fast. It kind of takes away from the danger of the situation, but I prefer that to dragging out the drama needlessly. They *sort of* justified the Eye of Ekron thing here, but I still feel like this could have been done a bit more elegantly. Three evil Kryptonians and a Martian feels like enough of a threat for the final story.

Speaking of the Martian. I have... mixed... thoughts about how his story ended. I'm kind of glad he didn't just wind up brain-blasted, though I have to say "you didn't care when Connor died!!" is probably the least of the awful things M'comm has done to M'gann. I kinda wish we'd gotten more characterization on M'comm this year. He was basically one of the *main* villains and he was just kind of snot-nosed, charmless and awful. I really wanted a little more dimension, not necessarily more of a sob story, or even a more sympathetic portrayal just like... does he like Martian music? Does he think about his family? What really drives him beyond being angry? Is he self-righteous or does he just flat out not care? Like him not caring about Superboy dying is pretty extreme. But it doesn't seem like the intention is for him to just be a sociopath either.

Like Lor-Zod as an angry, ambitious teenager I get. M'comm as a bitter victim of prejudiced and a terrorist I sort of get, but then he's working with Darkseid to subjugate the slaves of Apokalips, and he's always kind of weirdly sadistic, which isn't unfounded. I just wish there was more there, more detail on how he wound up meeting Darkseid. Not necessarily a whole story. But who sought who out?

I also could just be totally forgetting stuff that was covered in season 3 when he showed up there admittedly.

It was really nice to just see the team working together again. Or any team. I'll probably write more about what I thought of the season overall, but the sort of plot-heavy nature of this season didn't leave as much room for characterization and breathing room as I would have liked.

I don't have a lot of thoughts about this as a finale. It did it's job. It was good, I didn't think it was great. [/SPOILER]
Alex (or Aldrius)
Check out my anime podcast "Two Gays One Episode" on Spotify or YouTube!
posted @ Sat, Jun 11, 2022 3:27:35 am EDT from 65.95.86.37

[SPOILER] By the way, what did everyone think of Brainiac 5's design? Personally I'm not a fan of the noseless face but I still think it was a good look. [/SPOILER]
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Sat, Jun 11, 2022 1:45:35 am EDT from 64.85.245.77

[SPOILER] Any of the three could be the case. It'll be interesting to find out. [/SPOILER]
B
B
posted @ Fri, Jun 10, 2022 10:49:14 pm EDT from 74.74.246.146

[SPOILER] Funnily enough, I hadn't realized the A'ashenn were going to become the Durlans - I'd assumed Darkseid had some kind of grudge against them, and was expecting M'comm to go and conquer the native inhabitants (and therefore continue to spread conflict and suffering in the universe.) In my defense, Darkseid following the letter of his agreement to provide a planet while not following the spirit of it and providing an inhabited world seems about his style, deals with the devil always having some catch and all.

Though, if the planet does have some proto-Durlans, I could see the A'ashenn intermarrying with them until over the generations they're essentially one species; that could explain the lack of telepathy and telekinesis. [/SPOILER]
Karrin Blue
posted @ Fri, Jun 10, 2022 7:10:19 pm EDT from 107.77.223.224

Oh, Algae. Don't suppose you've read the chapter I sent you?
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Fri, Jun 10, 2022 6:41:59 pm EDT from 64.85.245.77

[SPOILER] It'll be interesting to see how the Durlans lost their telepathy, telekinesis et al by the 31st century. At least that's what I'm assuming happened since Cham didn't display any of the other traditional Martian superpowers. [/SPOILER]
Algae
'Nuff said
posted @ Fri, Jun 10, 2022 6:03:17 pm EDT from 217.183.44.235

[SPOILER] I completely forgot about the proposed Sanctuary. Topping "Heroes in Crisis" isn't going to be hard, they already did a stellar episode on heroes and mental health in "Disordered." And as long as they the center allows for actual human interaction in a one-to-one setting or group setting, and makes sure patients aren't opening themselves up to an unfeeling computer, and makes sure patients aren't harming themselves via holograms... And I'm going to stop before I keep dwelling on how much "Heroes in Crisis" sucked.

Now that I think about it, it would be a great twist of irony if planet Durlan became not a new world for the A'ashenn, it turns into a new colony for Martians of all colors. I'd just love for M'comm to live with the knowledge that he helped create a new world of actual peace and equality rather than the (ahem) White dominated world he desired. [/SPOILER]
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Fri, Jun 10, 2022 3:35:49 am EDT from 64.85.245.77

[SPOILER] My sentiments as well about the separate White Martian homeworld and Ma'alefa'ak. [/SPOILER]
B
B
posted @ Thu, Jun 9, 2022 11:54:44 pm EDT from 74.74.246.146

Awww...

[SPOILER] Of course Greg gave himself the officiant role. That's so cheesy, but I love that kind of thing. Really, what's the point of writing a show for ten-plus years if you can't have your self insert marry off your (surviving) main couple.

Hm, what else... the fight scene was excellent (although I could've done with more Kaldur v Zod.) M'gann going sith lord was also a delight - although hey, she didn't lobotomize anyone! She's using her powers aggressively without going full shred-their-brain mode! Now she just needs to keep that as an extreme she goes to when absolutely necessary and we'll be golden.

The ending wrap up did feel a little pat, I have to say. Everything's explained and squared away in dialogue instead of us seeing how it happened (same with the catchup at the beginning. Are we getting all these explanations of how everything happened because people keep asking for play-by-plays in the queue? I'd get it, if so, but it did seem like some of this could've been explained just through action without the voiceover.) Rocket showing up feels a little cheap, I have to say, but at least it being all part of Metron's revenge makes sense.

And... seriously, I still feel bad for Lor. I like that at the end what killed him was just not sitting in the sphere, trying to kill Conner again, but he's still a teenager, and I wish he'd gotten a better chance. Though I still suspect his present-timeline self will get that chance through Conner and M'gann. And hopefully it won't be long before the Kryptonians are freed too - and I sure hope Kaldur and co were planning on giving the Kryptonians medical care and resources when they put them on Trombus, by the way. And cult-deprogramming experts. Putting the cult in an isolated area where they're under guard - and can have and raise kids who'll know nothing but the cult - seems like a bad idea, though it's moot now.

Speaking of bad ideas! OK, it's probably not fair to judge Canary's Sanctuary idea by the Heroes In Crisis comic (I doubt YJ!Lois would ever release private videos of therapy on the web, or that Clark would condone it, or that Canary would have therapy be just 'talk undirectedly at a camera and call it good'), but still. Well, I'll just assume that since they're already taking swings at doing Evil Mary and Evil Kara plots better, they wanted to try and redeem HIC too.

Speaking of Kara and Mary... well, poor kids. I'm surprised Kara is already a teenager, I'm used to her being pre-adolescent when she goes into the Zone. Not much to say here without seeing where it goes, though. I like their outfits? That's about it.

And... yeah, that's about all I got for now. Though, I'll be surprised if this is the last we here of M'comm - heck, I'll be surprised if it turns out the A'ashenn went with him, or if a majority did. His own followers, sure, but the random civilians like K'arr M'eng, probably not. Though that's my inherent distaste for stories where the solution to an oppressed group being oppressed is them being chased out of their homes for good. So I think this is a 'he escapes M'gann's wrath, for now' kind of thing - especially because I can't see M'comm actually committing to settling down on a new world with his people and trying to build a sustainable culture. If he doesn't go haring off after revenge, or flip out the first time the majority disagrees with him on what to do, I'll be amazed.

Anyways. We'll probably talk more next week, but: I think I liked this season better than S3, though it still seems to have had some growing pains around the mini-arc structure. Still, I had fun, and even with tension and telling-over-showing issues, it's still way more creative with using these well-worn characters than many others, and it can really pull out the stops when it needs to. So I'll be looking forward to S5, hopefully to be confirmed soon. [/SPOILER]
Karrin Blue
posted @ Thu, Jun 9, 2022 11:13:37 pm EDT from 68.9.88.39

MATTHEW> No worries, your email arrived safe and sound. I'll give ti a read and let you know what I think sometime tomorrow.
Algae
'Nuff said
posted @ Thu, Jun 9, 2022 5:17:43 pm EDT from 185.252.222.5

Algae> [SPOILER] M'comm: So if this virus that supposed to kill the Reds, Greens and possibly Whites ends up failing, time for Plan B. Take the A'ashenn Community and push it somewhere else! [/SPOILER]

Just saw the message, total mistake on my part.
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Thu, Jun 9, 2022 5:06:55 pm EDT from 64.85.245.77

MATTHEW> BTW, I couldn't find the email you sent me yesterday, so I PMed you my address again on FF.net just to be sure.

Peace!
Algae
'Nuff said
posted @ Thu, Jun 9, 2022 4:33:22 pm EDT from 84.247.48.118

The Mist/Livewire subtext is so strong when they appear together that I'd be genuinely shocked if they were just friends.
B
B
posted @ Thu, Jun 9, 2022 4:09:14 pm EDT from 74.74.246.146

MATTHEW> [SPOILER] It does say something about M'comm that establishing a separate homeworld for the A'ashenn was his 'Plan B' AFTER the genocide virus fell through. [/SPOILER]
Algae
'Nuff said
posted @ Thu, Jun 9, 2022 3:58:55 pm EDT from 217.183.44.235

Being fair, there's still not very many LGBT characters in comics, and I get being disappointed when any of them aren't written as LGBT in adaptations. Not to mention that if you rule out ones that were later retconned into being queer, then that leaves even fewer around.

That being said, I was under the impression Traci was bi? I didn't think she'd had any stories establishing what she identified as, and I thought the span of time where she'd dated Jaime was still more-or-less canon, she'd just also dated Natasha at some point.

Also, you're not alone in getting a feeling about Mist and Livewire! I think it's that a shy, quiet character and a brash rude character (who's always noticeably nicer to and defensive of the quiet one) is a pretty fun opposites-attract dynamic that's easy to make romantic; plus you almost never see one without the other, and I always got the impression they'd known each other before the business with Stagg.
Karrin Blue
posted @ Thu, Jun 9, 2022 3:47:58 pm EDT from 64.251.62.62

Incidentally, when Traci was first introduced there were no hints of her being a lesbian. That was a change in the New 52 and even then it was only established by the fact that she formally had a relationship with Natasha Irons.
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Thu, Jun 9, 2022 3:13:14 pm EDT from 64.85.245.77

First Anon, (a) please ignore the Second Anon troll, (b) this isn't the place to ask Greg questions, this is the Comment Room, where fans chat amongst ourselves. Please use the "Ask a Question" page under the "Ask Greg" heading.
B
B
posted @ Thu, Jun 9, 2022 2:49:04 pm EDT from 74.74.246.146

Shut the fuck up, pervert. You need Jesus.
Anonymous
posted @ Thu, Jun 9, 2022 1:24:37 pm EDT from 45.248.76.174

I know you've implied Traci is still LGBT+ in the show, but it's a bit disheartening to see a character who has canonically been a lesbian in the comics for years dating a guy with no mention of her sexuality. I still appreciate your dedication to portraying LGBT+ and particularly bi characters, though, and was very glad to see Harper and Violet get together. Are there any characters in the show that are lesbians or otherwise LGBT+ (besides Ed and [redacted character you haven't been allowed to make canon] that you can discuss? I've always gotten a feeling about Mist and Livewire, idk why.
Anonymous
posted @ Thu, Jun 9, 2022 12:12:19 pm EDT from 162.239.91.252

Well it's finale time. Some quick thoughts on episode 26 "Death and Rebirth"

[SPOILER] Another action-heavy episode though it seems some of our predictions were off. Nightwing was faking his death but that really was Superman about to be executed. Rocket wasn't sent to the Source or Limbo or some other plane of existence but Metron's Vault. That's pretty...convenient. Which is something I'll cover when I give my thoughts on season 4, but for now I'll just say it kind of sucked the drama of last episode's cliffhanger right out. That being said, I find it rather appropriate that Metron would arrange for Lor to meet his end in an ironic sort of way. And test his hypothesis on creating a stable time loop as well.

What isn't quite as fun is M'comm getting to be a karma houdini again. I wasn't joking when I said this guy needs his ass kicked yesterday. This show has a wide bevvy of villains but he's honestly one of the most loathsome, which is why I thought it would be appropriate that he'd end up in the Phantom Zone thanks to the actions of one of his victims. But no. And it looks like he and the Whites are going to be the progenitors of the Durlan race too. That does make sense to a degree, much like Beast Boy, Martians have been depicted as integral to shapeshifters. Still, I'm hoping that even with a new colony set aside for the A'ashenn he can't let go of his hatred which drives him to confront his sister one last time, where he finally receives his just deserves.

So we finally got our wedding and I liked that everyone was on board to get on to it that they didn't even bother with all the pomp. Conner is never going to look right with combed back hair though. Nice of Junior to show up, Conner and M'gann do owe a lot of their relationship to him. And with that bouquet catch I'm wondering if their going for that comics-canon relationship.

On the horizon we've got Ursa planning revenge and looking for the near equivalent to Krypton for followers. Mary and Kara have joined the ranks of the Furies (how Kara ended up in the Zone is a mystery) and the Light continues to lurk... [/SPOILER]

So that does it for Season 4. Fair warning, starting next week I won't be posting anything about the season in spoilers, starting with my thoughts on season 4 as a whole.
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Thu, Jun 9, 2022 4:11:53 am EDT from 64.85.245.77

I would have assumed they were 20s-30s, but I don't want to speculate about their age. They *were* obnoxious, rude and harsh. They're barging onto his website and screaming at him that they're "deeply angered" that Zatara's religion was portrayed in any way positively or even mentioned and called that "religion propaganda". Which is an insanely extremist position, and I don't even like organized religion. That to me is that part of the comment that really matters and makes the "I don't want to offend anyone" parts around it sound insincere. Greg is a human being and doesn't have put himself into contortions not to make someone who does that feel uncomfortable. He was even apologetic and calling for understanding in his response, which was more than he needed to do. So no, I think you're criticizing the wrong person here. To be honest, I'd like to not see any more discussion on the topic.
B
B
posted @ Wed, Jun 8, 2022 8:47:14 pm EDT from 74.74.246.146

Well that escalated quickly. And I assume it's a kid because the tone escalates wildly the hallmark of youth. And this person had nothing to do with whatever else has been going on, so the response seems a little lopsided. Sure this could be a troll but I tend not to view people in bad faith unless this is a history or evidence that suggests they are. And as far as I can tell Greg kinda of agrees with the poster about religion so why the conflict?

And calling someone obnoxious is a synonym for rude or harsh I mean being an English major that seems unbelievably petty, this person is not some troll on twitter and this is your website so maybe try to take the high ground like Goliath would?
Kevin - [kevin dot nuckols at yahoo dot com]
Kevin Nuckols
posted @ Wed, Jun 8, 2022 7:39:48 pm EDT from 72.95.140.30

Honestly, I have trouble taking that asker as a kid just asking in good faith when they said they didn't want to offend anyone and in the same breath said that all religion was silly, dangerous, and disgusting. And calling that sort of thing out as being meant more to convince someone they don't or shouldn't like their work is in no way settling for being mediocre instead of aspiring to do better, because random jerks on the internet aren't the arbiters of what 'better' looks like. (Really, as a general life rule, trying to make something that will please the people most vocal about how they don't like anything is just a good way to burn yourself out.)

Also, did anyone check out the DC Pride anthology out yesterday, and Kevin Conroy's section? Because if you haven't, I'd highly recommend seeking it out, at least for his entry.
Karrin Blue
posted @ Wed, Jun 8, 2022 7:30:19 pm EDT from 68.9.88.39

The bit from JMS about not using story telling as a means to reinforce the religious, social or political beliefs of the audience reminds me so much of the problems with certain media groups like Pure Flix.
Despite being a Christian-based media company (of the evangelical side), their message is less of preaching the good word and more reinforcing the pre-established religious and political beliefs of the targeted demographic. And new viewpoints or ideas that they didn't already fully believe in aren't going to make their way into those stories.
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Wed, Jun 8, 2022 6:03:13 pm EDT from 64.85.245.77

The more things change, the more they stay the same. I remember when J. Michael Straczynski depicted a same-sex tryst on an episode of the second season of Babylon 5 back in 1995 and some people came at him for it. Well, here was his response and I think it applies here.

***

See, here's where I start to have a problem. For starters, I don't do any thing to be politically correct, or politically incorrect, I do what I do in any story because that's what the story points me toward. Anybody who says "It's not necessary" isn't entitled to that judgement, frankly; you don't know what's necessary to the story. And by framing it in the "is this NECESSARY?" way is designed to make you defend your position when such defense isn't the point; is it NECESSARY to have humor? to have a romance? to have correct science? No, *nothing* is NECESSARY. It's what the writer feels is right for that scene, that story, that character.
"Oh, well, I saw it, but was all that violence NECESSARY?" This is, frankly, a BS observation usually offered by someone with an agenda, who wishes to invalidate the notion of an artistic view and impose some kind of quota, or objective criterion to what is and isn't necessary for a movie or film. As far as I'm concerned, the first person to throw this into a discussion has, frankly, just lost the argument.

Point the second: one of the most consistent comments I get, in email and regular mail, is the spirituality conveyed in the show, that we have shown, and will continue to show, tolerance toward religion, even created sympathetic religious characters. "Thank you for your tolerance," they say...until we show somebody or some action THEY don't like...and at that point suddenly it's a lot of tsk-tsking and chest thumping and disapproval; so okay, how about I just stop all positive religious aspects of the show?

It seems to me, that if I do *all that* with religion, and with thje (the) simple act of showing maybe ONE PERSON in all the long history of TV science fiction across 40 years has a different view of life, that the show is somehow degraded, or downgraded, or dropped in opinion...this simply reinforces the notion, held by many, that a lot of folks in the religious right wish to make sure no other perspective or lifestyle is ever shown on television, at any time, unless in a negative fashion.

The thing of it is, while on the one hand I'm getting praise from religious folks for addressing spirituality in my series (speaking here as an atheist), I've gotten flack from others who think it has no place in a SCIENCE fiction series, and why the hell am I putting something in that goes right against my own beliefs? "Because," I tell them, "this show is not about reflecting my beliefs, or yours, or somebody else's, it's about telling this story, about these people, with as much honesty and integrity as I can summon up. That means conceding the fact that religious people are going to be around 260 years from now." Well, fact is, all kinds of people are going to be around 260 years from now. And what did the anti-religion folks say specifically about including spirituality in my series? "It's not *necessary*," they said.

Translation: they didn't like it. Well, tough. It was right for this story, and this show. And it seems to me rather hypocritical for some folks, who applaud the show for tolerance, for my standing up to those who want to exclude religion from TV, to then turn around and say the show is diminished because it showed that same tolerance...to another group or perspective. I guess tolerance is only okay as long as it's pointed one way.

You say that as a christian, you think any sex except that between a husband and a wife to be wrong. Well, as I recall, the bible also speaks against murder. We've depicted deaths by the hundreds of thousands. (And we're talking here about the *depicting* of the act, simply showing it, not the value judgements made after the fact.) Why does the one (which is so barely hinted at as to be almost invisible) cause the show to be diminished where the other does not?

My job is not to reinforce your personal political, social or religious beliefs. My job is not to reinforce MY personal political, social or religious beliefs. Then it isn't art or storytelling anymore, it's simply propaganda. My job is to tell this story, about these people, AS people, as mixed and varied as they are today. And there is no outside objective criteria as to what is, or isn't *necessary* in a story; that is the sole province of the author. You may or may not like it. You may or may not choose to watch it. Just as people who don't like to see religion and god discussed on TV may dislike it or choose not to watch it.

But you'll excuse me if I see complaints about this one little thing from the religious side, after all I've done to present religious characters and the religious life in a positive fashion, to be hypocritical and frankly somewhat ungrateful. It's as though all this means nothing because of one thing, one outside-imposed litmus test that disregards anything and everything else that has been done.

So straight up...if I should stop tolerating or showing viewpoints that are not my own (spoken as someone who is absolutely straight), then should I now stop showing religion as well? Because that's what this comes down to. Is that what you want? Because religion is included at my discretion as well as anything else on this show. You want me to be less tolerant? Just say the word.

- J. Michael Straczynski, 1995.
Nothing changes...
posted @ Wed, Jun 8, 2022 5:02:34 pm EDT from 18.170.98.68

And again, I tend to feel more and more that the quality first argument is the individual trying to sound more like how to put it, like an unbiased theater critic as opposed to someone bigot or arguably as bad lacking empathy.
Antiyonder
posted @ Wed, Jun 8, 2022 4:44:42 pm EDT from 107.77.205.93

Yeah, I really don't blame Greg for dropping the mic on this. I mean, how is this really any different from that asshat on Twitter demanding Greg "strip" all LGBT content from the show.

Maybe self-reflect a little before demanding entire swaths of humanity be excised from media cuz you disapprove of their "lifestyle" or whatever.
Algae
'Nuff said
posted @ Wed, Jun 8, 2022 3:48:00 pm EDT from 185.252.222.8

John Paul>

Yeah, I've read Kingdom Come. Love that Alex Ross artwork. And where else can you see Batman chase down Fat Albert and the Cosby Kids?
Friendly CIA Spook
Pay no attention to the astigmatism behind the sunglasses
posted @ Wed, Jun 8, 2022 6:19:19 am EDT from 146.168.124.83

Kevin> Which I do seek to abide by myself. But at the same time, that doesn't mean we need to shed a tear for a person who fires their mouth off and gets a lashing in return.
Antiyonder
posted @ Wed, Jun 8, 2022 3:52:08 am EDT from 71.93.3.194

Oh! In my defense I was unaware of that because well I don't run a website and I am sorry you had to deal with that.

While I do believe that addresses bad faith criticism or just juvenile thoughts you still shouldn't engage in similar thought processes, better to aspire then to be mediocre.
Kevin - [kevin dot nuckols at yahoo dot com]
Kevin Nuckols
posted @ Tue, Jun 7, 2022 11:49:35 pm EDT from 72.95.140.30

And I get it. I can understand that some people follow superhero material for the action. Just that it seems iffy to act like other things like religion or politics being used is new.

The example of say Captain America punching Hitler? Yeah some people claim this to be an example of nuanced/subtle politics. Pretty sure that punching and subtle don't mix:-D.
Antiyonder
posted @ Tue, Jun 7, 2022 11:49:24 pm EDT from 71.93.3.194

Kevin> The "kids" were going back and forth at each other on the Ask Greg queue for some time. In fact their sniping was clogging up the unanswered list to the point that it was causing Masterdramon (our friendly moderator) some stress. And as I recall some of the arguments moved here as well.

I'm hoping that Greg's response is a definitive end to it because we really don't need that cycle of bashing faith and accusing the other side of bigotry again.
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Tue, Jun 7, 2022 11:40:48 pm EDT from 64.85.245.77

I assumed this person was a kid/young person because that is the same time of rhetoric that a lot of young atheists/critics of organized religion used/uses. They are young they don't realize what they are saying, I assume when you were young, you had thoughts you couldn't articulate properly and would not come off well today.

And I believe Greg was more in agreement with the poster when he said he has tremendous distaste for organized religion so I don't see how being polite about it changes how you portray it, and it's really odd how you admire something without following it especially when what you practice is more similar to religion that you say you have distaste for. And I get the feeling that this is what we will be talking about as opposed to what I was mainly talking about.

As for that X Men episode that was in the plot itself and not just a statement about what they believe in that was secondary to the plot.
Kevin - [kevin dot nuckols at yahoo dot com]
Kevin Nuckols
posted @ Tue, Jun 7, 2022 11:32:23 pm EDT from 72.95.140.30

Kevin> 1. What makes you think the person was a kid?

2. "Telling kids how great it is to join the Jehovah's Witnesses or any other religion, sect or cult because it gives hope ?"

I don't think accusation of brain washing is good faith.


And like the complaints of politics? Acts like it's the first time Religion was incorporated in super hero stories.

Remember X-Men The Animated Series episode "Nightcrawler"? Aimed at the 6-11 and heaven on religous preaching.

Or just Nightcrawler being a follower of God since the Claremont.
Antiyonder
posted @ Tue, Jun 7, 2022 11:19:57 pm EDT from 71.93.3.194

Uh does anyone think Greg's response to that fan was a bit much? I might regret opening this can of worms but just because people are rude on twitter, a website that only 3-5 percent of Americans use by the way, doesn't mean you need to go scorched earth on a rather justifiable criticism. The poster implied it was Zatanna's and Doctor Fate focused, when it was more about Zatanna and her team which is fine but maybe put those characters in the poster I mean more is always better right? And that story about freeing her father could have been resolved by I don't know Zatara magically giving his word that he will put it on a regular basis since you know he can't break it his word since it is magically enforceable. Yes there might be a good justification for that but it's not in the show, it's just taken for granted that it's just the way things are which is rather disappointing.

I mean someone if someone had a criticism about how transgender, gay, or Islamic characters are portrayed he would be extremely apologetic while here he is very dismissive towards rather mild critique. And I am pretty sure most people in positions of power are told how great they are Donald Trump had his cabinet say what and awesome and stupendous person he was, did that change that he was a terrible president? (Low blow I know but saying more praise is better than more criticism especially when it comes from a twitter is an intellectually lazy argument. No that doesn't mean you should not advocate for your creative decisions but like the mule and the donkey if enough people say the same thing about it, it's almost certain that there is truth behind it.)

And what was that about more care in your shows than other creators do in their's? That seems rather petty along with saying our numbers are better than any other show, unless you have proof what are you accomplishing? I remember people have asked about the average cost of an episode or how much does a voice actor get paid and walls of steel came up. If one is okay to talk about why not the other?

I get that it can be very stressful to deal with bad faith criticism especially on social media but as a creator and frankly grown adult you don't need to lash out on a forum where a good faith question was presented. Maybe not necessary as polite as I would usually be but let's face it younger people tend to ask these types of questions and getting slammed like that doesn't help anyone.
Kevin - [kevin dot nuckols at yahoo dot com]
Kevin Nuckols
posted @ Tue, Jun 7, 2022 10:46:46 pm EDT from 72.95.140.30

As an afterthought, the scene near the start of "Enter Macbeth" of Goliath reading in the castle library helped give the impression (not directly stated in the episode, but which, I believe, is what the prouction team had in mind) that Goliath had indeed read "Macbeth".
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Jun 7, 2022 9:18:52 pm EDT from 70.176.217.135

Thanks Algae, hope this works properly.
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Tue, Jun 7, 2022 5:04:45 pm EDT from 64.85.245.77

*would NOT
Algae
'Nuff said
posted @ Tue, Jun 7, 2022 4:09:16 pm EDT from 84.247.48.138

MATTHEW> Got your PM on FF.net. for some reason, FF.net would let me send my email properly formatted so I had to get a little creative.
Algae
'Nuff said
posted @ Tue, Jun 7, 2022 4:02:04 pm EDT from 84.247.48.138

JURGAN - [I don't think we know whether G read Macbeth, just that Lexington had heard of it.]

Lexington, when he mentioned the play to Brooklyn, said that he'd learned about the play through Goliath talking about it, which implies that Goliath had indeed read it.

(He also referred to Shakespeare as "some new writer" - which brings home again just how much history had taken place during the thousand year sleep. In fact, most of the well-known events and figures of Scottish history - not just Macbeth but also the Scottish Wars of Independence featuring William Wallace and Robert the Bruce, Mary Queen of Scots, the Jacobite uprisings and Bonnie Prince Charlie, James Watt, Robert Burns, etc. were from this period. Before 994, the most familiar parts of Scottish history were the Picts and Hadrian's Wall.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Jun 7, 2022 2:20:57 pm EDT from 70.176.217.135

Robbie definitely at least felt like the Other. He said 'they're not my people'.
B
B
posted @ Tue, Jun 7, 2022 1:54:45 pm EDT from 74.74.246.146

"I wonder whether the gargoyles would have initially recognized "Macbeth" as close to their time period."

This is one of those happy accidents of production, that the clan lived close to Macbeth's time. If Greg and Co. hadn't used a nice round 1000 years as the length of time they slept, it would have been harder to connect them to the historical Macbeth.

I don't think we know whether G read Macbeth, just that Lexington had heard of it. I had heard of the play Macbeth as a child but didn't know much about it. If he did read it, I wonder at what point it occurred to him that this man hunting them was the same person, and if the play's libellous portrayal affected the way he thought about their nemesis.
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Tue, Jun 7, 2022 1:18:21 pm EDT from 64.106.38.254

Have you read a classic DC comics called "Kingdom Come" by Alex Ross and Mark Waid?
John Paul Gontor - [jg0930047 at otc dot edu]
Gontor
posted @ Tue, Jun 7, 2022 11:55:50 am EDT from 192.190.140.23

I hadn't thought of the Captain, but that's a good point. Of course, he was a human - so it was more a case of being looked down upon, not for being "the other", but for "supporting the other".
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Jun 7, 2022 9:24:52 am EDT from 70.176.217.135

And to the Captain of the Guard.
B
B
posted @ Mon, Jun 6, 2022 11:27:54 pm EDT from 74.74.246.146

MATTHEW - I wonder whether the gargoyles would have initially recognized "Macbeth" as close to their time period. Shakespeare didn't say in the play itself that it took place in the 1040-1057 period. If Goliath had, say, read up first on what had happened in Scotland for the past thousand years, learned about Macbeth's reign in the century following that of the Wyvern Massacre, and been led from there to Shakespeare's play, yes - but we don't know what led him to discover the play itself.

I don't know if Goliath's read "Othello", but it struck me that if he had, he might have seen parallels in the clan's story beyond just the ColdTrio. Othello is a man of honor, courage, and integrity (until he gets destroyed by Iago's scheming), a great captain in the service of Venice, but he is also an outsider, and a lot of the Venetians (including Brabantio and Rodrigo) look down at him and treat him that way (though at least the Duke and his advisors apparently respect him - I'll have to reread the part of the play where they appear to make certain of that). Goliath would have certainly seen an echo of his own experience; of course, Othello has it worse in apparently being the only such outsider present, while Goliath had his clan to provide brotherhood and support. (And he felt so strongly about it that the thought of being the only gargoyle left was enough to beg the Magus to put him to sleep.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Jun 6, 2022 8:49:21 pm EDT from 70.176.217.135

Proteus is easier to write but Ma'alefa'ak feels more appropriate.
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Mon, Jun 6, 2022 8:45:10 pm EDT from 64.85.245.77

Like I said yesterday, we should call this "shapeshifting" troll either Proteus or Ma'alefa'ak.
B
B
posted @ Mon, Jun 6, 2022 7:23:33 pm EDT from 74.74.246.146

I just figured that the gargoyles took to reading "Macbeth" because relatively speaking, it was one of the stories that was closest to their own time period.
Something that was familiar to them so to speak.
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Mon, Jun 6, 2022 6:43:07 pm EDT from 64.85.245.77

My predictions:

- Supergirl and Mary Bromfield become furies.
- Lor-Zod escapes in Metron's time sphere.
- Nightwing and Rocket are alive and well.
- Ursa escapes to Daxam.
- Zod and every single Phantom Zone prisoner are teleported into the War World by Klarion.
- Connor and Miss Martian get married.

[SPOILER] Did I say predictions? I meant spoilers lmao [/SPOILER]
Algae
'Nuff said
posted @ Mon, Jun 6, 2022 6:08:42 pm EDT from 103.73.191.54

I read Patrick Gleason's run under that title (I think it's been reused several times) and enjoyed it. Actually, I've been hoping Maya and Suren would reappear for a while - it's kind of a shame these comics about Damian keep on giving him new agemate supporting cast members, then as soon as one run ends they're replaced by the next round and never heard from again (Jon kinda had the same thing, but then they aged him up, so not to the same extent anymore.) I kinda hope someday we get a comic about a team just made up of all of them together, I think that'd be fun.
Karrin Blue
posted @ Mon, Jun 6, 2022 2:12:35 pm EDT from 64.251.62.62

Do you eve read the Super Sons comic Book? The main characters are Superboy/Jonathan Samuel Kent and Robin/Damian Wayne and both of those appeared in the Young Justice show
Gon-El
Unknown
posted @ Mon, Jun 6, 2022 12:08:21 pm EDT from 192.190.140.23

Third.

Last week, I posted my thoughts on Goliath's likely response to Homer's "Iliad" and "Odyssey", as the start of a series of musings over his reading classic literature. This week, I'll turn to the obvious "classic writer" for "Gargoyles", Shakespeare.

We know that Goliath had discovered Shakespeare's plays early, before the clan even moved to the clock tower, because he'd read "Macbeth" even before Macbeth showed up (cf. Brooklyn and Lexington's conversation in "Enter Macbeth"). I've wondered if Goliath might have been drawn to that play partly because it's one of the biggest pieces of literature associated with Scotland - and certainly the Shakespeare play in which Scotland plays the most prominent part. (It gets a few mentions in the history plays, generally as a threat on England's northern border. "The Merchant of Venice" included a quarrelsome Scottish lord among Portia's off-stage suitors.)

In contrast to Homer, who composed just two epic poems, Shakespeare wrote so many plays, with such a variety of topics, that a discussion of how Goliath would have responded towards them would require far more paragraphs, unless we stuck to just a few. Many might have still been fairly accessible to him; certainly both "Macbeth" and the history plays are in a setting similar to that of Scotland (and Europe) in his day of armies clashing and nobles and kings striving against each other. Of course, there'd have been many references to developments that had taken place in the six centuries between the Wyvern Massacre and Shakespeare's day, especially the rediscovery of classical learning (how much Greek and Roman mythology would have reached Castle Wyvern, I wonder), though the basics of the plays (at least the bigger ones) would transcend such matters.

We know, incidentally, that Brooklyn and Lexington hadn't discovered Shakespeare yet (at least, not "Macbeth") when the original Macbeth entered their lives, but Brooklyn, at least, must have remedied that, for he knew about "A Midsummer Night's Dream" by the time of "The Mirror". (Meaning that he - and any other gargoyles who'd read that play- would have encountered it before actually encountering Puck, Oberon, and Titania - well, they'd technically met Puck back in "Awakening", but didn't know then that they'd met Puck.) Which raises the question of whether any of the clan had discovered "Othello" before the events of "Legion"....

Broadway and Hudson obviously would have gotten to a later start on Shakespeare, due to their not having learned how to read until after "A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time", but by "The Journey", Broadway was reading "Romeo and Juliet" in the library with Angela - and Brooklyn, judging by his remark, had evidently discovered that play too. (Evidently, because the line he quoted from it is well-known enough that he could have picked it up without necessarily having read the play itself.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Jun 6, 2022 9:26:40 am EDT from 70.176.217.135

2nd place 😁
Demona May - [realdemona at yahoo dot com]
Real Living Insane Gargoyle....
posted @ Mon, Jun 6, 2022 7:50:30 am EDT from 72.28.169.131

So what I'm probably going to do is give some quick thoughts on the finale, maybe spend a week or less and rewatch the whole season then give my full thoughts on it. Mostly because I have plenty I want to say but I want to do so with the full context of the story.
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Mon, Jun 6, 2022 12:47:35 am EDT from 73.170.229.149