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Gargoyles

The Phoenix Gate

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Comments for the week ending June 19, 2022

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Jensen> I mean lack of pony is something you don't take lightly. I never had one at all, but I do have a few figures and figurines:-D
Antiyonder

ANTIYONDER - [Have to say I think she is onto something about spreading awareness for kids who don't have a pony.]

It reminds me of one of the scenes near the end of "Gravity Falls" when the Northwests lose most of their fortune and tell Pacifica that she'll only be able to have one pony from now on - a prospect which horrifies her into silence.

Todd Jensen

Also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGf8OWVLOBI

Theme Song Takeover with Andrea Davenport.

Have to say I think she is onto something about spreading awareness for kids who don't have a pony.

I say this as an MLP fan without any bias:-D.

Antiyonder

Additionally TGaMM related: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhWTZZilxHQ

It's a showcase of Chibi Shorts from Disney, but it has a good amount of Molly, Scratch and Libby, so for all intents and purposes, it is an episode of TGaMM.

Maybe Episode 15.1?

Antiyonder

One peculiarity of that exclamation; Broadway said "Jalapena!" earlier in "Protection", before the exclamation from Goliath that supposedly started the whole tradition. (I'm not going to try to figure that one out.)
Todd Jensen

[SPOILER] Only if the character shouts "Jalapena!" [/SPOILER]
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[SPOILER] Goliath's no longer (assuming he was before today) the only character in Disney television animation to have a dramatic encounter with jalapenas (cf. this morning's new episode of "The Ghost and Molly McGee"). Probably not a "Gargoyles" tribute like the "Vitruvian Man"-style drawing of Goliath in "Amphibia" or Lexington's cameo in "Sidekicks", though. [/SPOILER]
Todd Jensen

Not YJ-related, but I recommend Eleanor Morton's channel for hilarious sketches of various kinds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJpyIOM5cpU
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Been enjoying this fellow's content lately:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xehLQQSQ5Z4

Super great stuff.

Alex (or Aldrius)
Check out my anime podcast "Two Gays One Episode" on Spotify or YouTube!

What if preteen Amistad Ervin is a superhero like his mother with the help of Static.
The first black autistic superhero
https://nitter.net/pic/orig/media%2FFBedfzlXMAEk0UZ.jpg

Secret DC Fan
?????????

Thanks Algae. And thank you again for the preliminary work.
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.

MATTHEW> Great first chapter. Looking forward to seeing more.
Algae
'Nuff said

There's another example of someone refusing to believe that talking animals are truly sapient in "The Chronicles of Narnia", by the way, which comes closer to how I suspect humans in the Gargoyles Universe would dismiss gargoyles speaking as a sign of their intelligence. When the main characters get captured by slavers, one of them is amused by Reepicheep's protests, asking which of his human companions trained him to speak and commenting that it sounds almost as though he knows what he's saying. (Reepicheep is so indignant at this response as to become speechless.)
Todd Jensen

I'm glad. Hope it sticks.
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It's set at T but apparently it's working again.
Oye vey, this whole thing is bothersome.

Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.

What maturity level is it set at?
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Okay, apparently my fic is "Unavailable for Reading."

Anyone with some experience with this sort of thing know what's going on?

Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.

People's grip on reality can be tenuous, especially when their worldview is upset.
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Under controlled circumstances, no, but I wouldn't be surprised if given the situation under which she met them in "City of Stone" she just remembered panic and scary animals that made sounds of some kind before they left.
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B - I liked the comparison to Uncle Andrew. (Though I doubt that Margot will ever become so convinced that gargoyles can't speak human languages - really speak them - that she becomes incapable of hearing them doing so.)
Todd Jensen

So I said that I would give my thoughts on Season 4 as a whole this week, but I'm going to have to push that back. Mostly because my attention has been diverted towards getting this published. https://www.fanfiction.net/s/14095367/1/DC-Legacies

I've had this story cooking in my brain for years and I've just now gotten it down.
Give it a read (maybe a review if you're so inclined) and I'll have the second chapter up by next week.

Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.

The Uncle Andrew (from Narnia) Effect, as it were.
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True, and I would expect there to be Margots and people like that too, but it can be demonstrated that Goliath can hold a fully fleshed and unrehearsed conversation with a stranger. And read and remember novels. That should be enough for more sensible heads.

Also, I'm not sure Margot even heard/remembers hearing the gargoyles speak, given her mental state at the time.

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B- Good point, and one that I've thought about myself. Of course, Margot heard the gargoyles speak in "City of Stone", and still maintained at the time of "The Journey" that they were mere animals. Sceptics about the gargoyles' intelligence would probably argue that it was "parrot-speech", imitating human speech without comprehending it.
Todd Jensen

I disagree. There's a big difference in sapience between gargoyles and elephants. And most importantly, gargoyles can talk, which Greg said is what made Elisa immediately accept that Goliath wasn't an animal.
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I suspect that Greg Weisman visualized the story about whether Goliath could get a trial or not as taking place in the late 90's, though we don't know if he'd intended it as an actual Season Three story or not. (He indicated that "And Justice For All" was loosely based on it - in the same way that "Runaways" developed in a very loose way from his "Timedancer" idea, but that's all we know.) And the outcome of that news story does suggest that the gargoyles would indeed have a difficult time being recognized as sapient beings.
Todd Jensen

I did very much sign up for DC Universe Infinite for at least the next few months while Young Justice: Targets will be coming out. Don't have much to add, fun to dive right back in so soon after the Phantoms finale :)

A tangent, but the legal precedent for Goliath's own New York trial isn't looking so great. Of course, The big guy might have had his trial already in the timeline (late 90s or early 00s?) before Happy's here.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61803958

Phoenician
Gus: "I always forget you're there." Hooty: "I forget I'm here toooooo."

Targets was an interesting read.

[SPOILER] I also hope something is done with Wally's birthday. I felt it was something of a wasted opportunity to not have the Wests show up in "Elder Wisdom." So maybe referencing him on his birthday and the anniversary of him saving Perdita's life will come up.

Speaking of which, I do love how Perdita's never been depicted as a damsel-in-distress, between socking Psimon in the face and trying to beat up a robot (or guy in a power suit) with a handbag, if she had powers or the right gear she'd probably try to end meta trafficking singlehanded.

Another interesting detail is that we're flashing back to when Will was a solo hero, and making this a pretty personal mission not just for Gar but Red Arrow too. It's been a while since we've seen Sportsmaster but it's easy to forget that at one point he was the most dangerous assassin on the planet.

Also, I'm pretty sure the bodyguard Denny is a shoutout to the late Dennis "Denny" O'Neil. Would make sense considering all the Green Arrow he worked on. [/SPOILER]

Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.

MASTERDRAMON - Yes, that does seem plausible - it's certainly pleasant to think it was up there with the Vitruvian Man version of Goliath.
Todd Jensen

I've read Targets - [SPOILER] I wonder if there'll be anything about Wally's birthday? It looks like the action will be on the tenth anniversary of Coldhearted - so he'd be 26, if he'd lived. Also, wow, if Roy was operating as Red Arrow when Perdita's dad was killed then she must have lost him, what, less than 5 months before her surgery, and become Queen then too? Even as a kid she was tough as nails.

Also, is it just me, or are they ship-teasing Roy and Perdita? I'm not exactly opposed to it, but I have to say that if one is looking for a partner who's got an even temperament, a willingness to be open and supportive and accept help when needed, and a good handle on their emotional issues, Arsenal doesn't exactly seem like a natural fit. Then again, Perdita seemed more interested in Star Labs than in him, so who knows. Nice to see Dr Roquette again too.

(Also, between Superboy wearing their shirts on missions and Perdita and Serling both liking their bags - which Perdita uses as a blunt weapon against a robot - now I'm wondering if Forever 16 decided to get into the 'fast fashion for people who live in a city with resident supervillains' market. Surely the average Gothamite or Metropolitanmust have a need for a reasonably-priced durable handbag that can incidentally fit a tazer, a hazard mask, and a water purifier - maybe they're filling that niche. [/SPOILER]

Karrin Blue

Todd: A friend posited that, given the prominence of Holly and Hop Pop in that promo, it may have been written or outlined by Matt Braly, who is a self-admitted big "Gargoyles" fan. Hence Goliath's inclusion in the calamity book.

BTW, for those who are interested, Targets #1 has hit the digital "pages" of DC Universe Infinite. A very intriguing start, to what I hope will be the first of many comics arcs.

Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"Inside of every demon is a rainbow." - Charlie Magne

Desist.
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This website entertain me with your super cool animations!
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Designing garden lighting Cheltenham

Cartoons are always the best.
Intruder alarms Gloucester - [barbiecarrington01 at gmail dot com]
Intruder alarms Gloucester

Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
Staircase Bristol - [barbiecarrington01 at gmail dot com]
Staircase Bristol

I appreciate the content. To more like that please.
Barbie Carrington - [barbiecarrington01 at gmail dot com]
Staircase Bristol

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Barbie Carrington - [barbiecarrington01 at gmail dot com]
roof tiler cheltenham

Holy, shiit. Marvelman asks the most retarded ass questions!
Anonymous

PHOENICIAN - [Donald Duck and Launchpad McQuack were also in that vid, and of course, it was the 2017 DuckTales takes on them, but hey, the characters were also in the 1987 series too. And of course, Donald himself as a character is as old as 1934 or so.]

And Goofy also showed up at the end, and he was in "Goof Troop" (though as one of the leads rather than a sidekick) and has been around about as long as Donald. (Though they seemed to be using the "2017 Duck Tales" design for him.)

Todd Jensen

Donald Duck and Launchpad McQuack were also in that vid, and of course, it was the 2017 DuckTales takes on them, but hey, the characters were also in the 1987 series too. And of course, Donald himself as a character is as old as 1934 or so.

In any case, I do think the recent bout Gargoyles easter eggs from shows like 2017 DuckTales, Amphibia, the new Chip 'n Dale Rescue Rangers film (and there might be more, I'm losing track) is a result of a simple love for the series from those showrunners, writers, actors, and animators. Given the ages from some of those creators, its quite likely they grew up and enjoyed the series themselves.

Now, if only the the rest of the House of Mouse could get on that in-house nostalgia wave d:

Also, if only House of Mouse would join the Disney+ catalog.

Phoenician
Gus: "I always forget you're there." Hooty: "I forget I'm here toooooo."

I wish we could take the Gargoyles mythology gag in DuckTales as a sign of interest in reviving Gargoyles on Disney. There should be more animators, producers and writers who were fans when they were younger.
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Now I can't remember whether the pun was intentional when I said I'd be shocked if Livewire and Mist were just friends.
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KARRIN BLUE - Yes, I think that's a likely explanation. (The "fill in" theory seems all the more likely because Lexington is revealed through the camera pulling back.)
Todd Jensen

Second!

And, honestly, my guess would be that whoever wrote the song just told the animators to add a silent character or two to fill out the group shot, and one of them was a Gargoyles fan. People who grew up on Gargoyles are working in the industry now, after all, and on such a small video it's probably easy enough to ask the director if you can put a cameo into your boards.

Karrin Blue

First.

I've been thinking more about Lexington's cameo in the Broken Karaoke video "Sidekicks". He was the only character in it from the Disney Afternoon era; the earliest figure in the video, apart from him, was Rufus from "Kim Possible", which was after the Disney Afternoon. All the other characters featured in it were from Disney television animation in the last few years ("Gravity Falls", the "Duck Tales" reboot, "Amphibia", "The Owl House", etc.) A character from "Gargoyles" was the only representative of the era. He stayed in the background, of course, with the focus on the more recent characters - but he was still there. Which raises the question of why Disney included him.

I don't think that Disney has plans to bring "Gargoyles" back (if it did, there'd be much bigger hints about it by now). But reportedly, when Disney Plus was launched, "Gargoyles" was the second most popular show on it (outranked only by "The Mandalorian"), and Lexington's presence might have been linked to that. (And we've been seeing new "Gargoyles" merchandise really, such as the action figures and the board game.)

Todd Jensen