A Station Eight Fan Web Site


The Phoenix Gate

Comment Room Archive

Comments for the week ending September 4, 2022

Index : Hide Images

Predications/theories for Young Justice (Season 6)
1.it will be the final season.
2.it will be a two year time jump.
3.the main villain will be Darkseid and his apokoliptian forces.
4.Lex Luthor resigned from the Light and joined the Justice League.
5.Most YJ characters will be killed in this season.
6.the number of episodes will be 28.
7.Darkseid has invaded Earth and enslaved the people.
8.The light is disbanded because of Vandal Savage's death.
9.Geo Force is going through a redemption arc.
10.Darkseid captured Halo and Cyborg and took their powers by killing them.
11.The good and bad guys are working together to fight Darkseid.
12.The heroes must reveal ancient secrets that will stop Darkseid and save the planet.
Epilogue(9 years in the future):
•A new Justice League is formed and a new generation of young heroes composed of the children of superheroes lead to a Young Justice spinoff.


Mystery Fan
Unknown person

Speaking of trolls...

Take a chill pill. Speculation isn't against the rules here.
Poor language however, is discouraged.

Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!

We know it's you, "Mysterious Fan". And you're stupid as always. Fuck off.

Predications/theories for Young Justice (Season 5)
1.an another timeskip, again
2.Wally West is Alive and trapped in the speed force.
3.Big barda defected from granny’s furies and joined the new genesians.
5.connor and megan are expecting a child.
6.the main villain is Reverse Flash/Eobard Thawne.
7.Ursa Zod has given birth to baby Lor Zod.
8.some scenes will be similar to Heroes in Crisis.
9.vandal Savage is keeping the captive aliens for the War World to control them to fight against the forces of Darkseid.
10.someone will die in this season.
11.more secrets will be revealed
12.In the ending of YJ S5,the final battle of Earth and Apokolips has begun and lead to the final season.



Yes, I know Callicantzari is a Greek name, but those are the only goblins I've heard of that turn to stone if they don't make it underground in time. The ones that turn to stone in "David the Kabouter" are trolls (I'm Dutch and I watched that show as a kid).


B - The book was titled "Magical Creatures and Mythical Beasts", illustrated by Victo Ngai and published by Magic Cat. (The goblins weren't given a specific name - since the ones in the book were portrayed as living in the Netherlands - Amsterdam, to be precise - rather than Greece, they wouldn't have been the Callicantzari anyway.)
Todd Jensen

It would've been hilarious if they attempted to tackle issues like peer pressure considering their absolute stance on one single group think.
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!

Oh yeah. If the LGBT stuff wasn't to be a turn off to the D&D execs*, TOH's thing about embracing weirdness would.

*Yeah consider the D&D franchise is considered evil be some, it would be hypocritical to oppose gay content in shows:-P.


Not Antiyonder, Todd Jensen. I got the addressee and the speaker signature mixed up.

Anti-Yonder > What's the name of this book? It sounds good. Were the goblins called Callicantzari?

I highly recommend watching the rest of Infinity Train whenever you can!


The "Buddy Bears" definitely struck me as a (deliberately designed that way) failure to realize that there's a golden mean between discord and mindless adherence to a single opinion.
Todd Jensen

Oh, you did mention the group think bit.

Matthew> Gets better. Eric (The Cavalier) and characters like him were part of the moral claim that those who don't conform are wrong. Yeah conformity being presented as morally right.

The Buddy Bears from Garfield & Friends (which Evanier also worked on) was a sweet burn of a "Take That" towards the "Complainer is always wrong" mentality.


I didn't watch the old Dungeons and Dragons series, but I did attend a few panels which features Mark Evanier who worked on the show. He talked a lot about how frustrating writing for it was since studio interference got in the way of story telling. Apparently they were constantly pushing the "moral of the week" bit and "dissension from group decisions must constantly be wrong" pretty hard.

Fun fact: according to the Baldur's Gate series, none of those kids made it back home and pretty much died there.

Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!

ANTIYONDER - Good point; there did seem to be an occasional feeling that Dungeon Master had ulterior motives in sending them to those "possible ways home" without telling them that that wasn't what the real purpose of the adventure would be - with the attempted portal home always getting destroyed.

(Which brings me to one weakness of the Dungeons and Dragons cartoon that another of its writers brought up; the main characters always had to fail at their goal - returning home - to keep the series going. I've thought that more recent animated series using the "Earth kids stuck in another world" concept managed to solve that problem, though. "Amphibia" and "The Owl House" both went for a single big portal that was part of a series arc. I only got to see the first season of "Infinity Train", so I can't speak for the other seasons, but I think it also handled that element well - it helped that it was more of a mini-series than a regular series.)

MATTHEW - Your mention of Brooklyn encountering Yokai reminds me of a book on mythical creatures for younger readers I discovered recently. In it, a scholar goes on a world tour to investigate various legends about mythical creatures, bringing his young daughter with him. He believes the mythical creatures to be just that - myths - focusing on what mundane elements could have inspired the myths, but his daughter discovers that a lot of them are real. Among the ones she encountered were Yokai in Japan (including beings called tennyo who look like women floating in the air who watch over Tokyo - I thought of Sora and wondered if tengu were the only mythical beings linked to the Ishimura clan). She also met the gargoyles of Notre Dame, the Loch Ness Monster, and sewer alligators in New York (a legend which got mentioned briefly in "The Thrill of the Hunt" and "Hunter's Moon Part One"), among many others, plus a group of mischief-making goblins in Amsterdam who got caught by the sun and turned to stone in the middle of their pranks (shades of the Lawn Gnomes from "Freakazoid"!).

Todd Jensen

In regards to Timedancer, I'd be really disappointed if Brooklyn didn't meet any Yokai.
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!

1. Todd Jensen> What I (and presumably Greg B) means is Dungeon Master not asking them in the first place for their help yet putting the burden on them despite how even with most of the kids (Buddie BearsXD) often defaulting to help others first.

Kind of nicely contrasted with Luz from The Owl House who is eager to help take down the bad guy (even before motivated by guilt) while Eda feels that her kids (counting Amity, Gus and Willow in that regard<3) shouldn't have to deal with that kind of stuff.

2. So in regards to Timedancer, I wonder if Brooklyn would encounter a Kappa and lament that of course they wouldn't resemble those heroes in a half shellXD.


I also hope we see Amethyst in the future.

Yeah, I definitely miss the breather episodes with this format. You have to have time to decompress! That, and everyone being sectioned off in their own subplots (and therefore meaning very few scenes of the original team members actually interacting and working together, one of my favorite parts of s1) is one of the things I don't like as much with this structure.

On the religion stuff... I'm of mixed feelings. On the one hand, I like the scene with Khalid very much - I thought it was beautiful as part of the story, and after some of the issues last season (and some of the asks that immediately showed up in the queue about how Khalid couldn't possibly be a Muslim and mage at the same time), I think it was useful to have out of universe as well. At the same time, I'm pretty uncomfortable with the focus on Catholicism as well, and if it hadn't been counterbalanced with Khalid, and had been the only religion mention in the episode, I would have had more problems with it.

Agreed on the end of the battle being something of a let down - I kept feeling like the kids should have noticed the giant crack earlier and tried to target it, it seems a bit obvious for an eleventh hour revelation.

I liked Child all right as an antagonist, though. And I liked the mindscape scenes - Mary's alt-selves were pretty creepy, and I think the conflict they represent about her not thinking her normal self is good enough or worthy enough or doing things right, is engaging. And that scene with Zatara at the end, with Canary, I like quite a bit.

...won't lie, though, I am a little bit disappointed Amethyst didn't show up along with her baddie. Maybe someday!

Karrin Blue

That's a good point, Alex. There really isn't many quiet points of reflection this season. "Downtime" was one of my favorite episodes from season 1 because of the action pieces in Atlantis, but it was also important to show the other kids and their home life. Season 3 was also pretty action heavy, but it did give us episodes like "Evolution", "Illusion of Control", and "Quiet Conversations." All of them had action take the back seat for backstory, healing and confronting personal problems.

I think that's why the political conflict in Kaldur's arc was my favorite for the season. Just something else that wasn't the usual fare.

Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!


Yeah it's just not a particularly clean arc, but to be fair none of the arcs are that clean. I don't really mind that Zatanna didn't play a role in the final battle, largely because the arc isn't really focused on that. That's sort of what I was trying to say, by the final battle Zatanna's students have already proven themselves worthy. She's already done her job.

I think I said this when the episode came out, I don't really get the purpose of the Child in the narrative. The stakes are super high, but I think the super high stakes are a bit at odds with the personal/emotional aspects of the storytelling. One thing I just thought of is that none of the arcs in this season really have any downtime in general. The pacing of the season is breakneck otherwise. I think that's one reason I REALLY like the halo episode in the last arc, is it's really the only low stakes, personal conflict, self-contained episode. I guess the Razer episode is similar. (I like that one a lot too, tho)

Alex (or Aldrius)
Check out my anime podcast "Two Gays One Episode" on Spotify or YouTube!

ANTIYONDER> "Incidentally I remember Greg B once commenting in response how it just confirmed that Dungeon Master is a manipulative control freakXD."

Just like an actual DM!

'Nuff said

I'd heard of his having Parkinson's, and thought it might be that, but wasn't certain.

I remember reading the script to "Requiem" and rather liked it. (The opening reminded me of the opening of the Book of Job.)

I don't know if I'd agree with Bishansky on his remarks about Dungeon Master in the cartoon, but I thought that the young leads did show a bit of slowness. They get several obvious hints from Dungeon Master that they're meant to be in that world to accomplish something important, yet keep ignoring them and continue to act as if their being in that world is just a mistake and that their goal is to get back to their own world as soon as possible. (It makes me appreciate all the more the fact that Goliath recognized so early in the Avalon World Tour that they were on a mission that they should complete before returning to Manhattan.)

Todd Jensen

Todd: Sorry, as Matthew says, I just meant it's more that his illness makes it unlikely I would imagine that he'd be able to join the podcast.

I think I did notice Reaves name in the credits of episodes even before becoming more familiar with various creators Pre-Internet (Finally had regular access as of Christmas of 98 via WebTV).

First time I took notice of him was due to the Dungeons & Dragons rerunning on Fox in 2000.

And during that year I happened on the site where he displayed various scripts. Some being scrapped DCAU stuff (BTAS and Beyond), but most notably the D&D episode Requiem which was to work as a possible series finale while also being able to start off a new direction had a 4th season been greenest.

Incidentally I remember Greg B once commenting in response how it just confirmed that Dungeon Master is a manipulative control freakXD.

Can't really disagree on that.


I haven't heard anything about Michael Reaves passing on, but I have heard that Parkinson's has made communicating difficult.

Good review of the Zatanna Arc, Alex. I think the big issue is that between the Sentinels of Magic, the back story of Vandal's relationship with Klarion, the origin of Dr. Fate and the conflict between Order and Chaos. That Zatanna and her goal of freeing her father just kind of get lost in the shuffle. The sad part is that aside from finding proper hosts for Fate, she's not a very active member in the story. Phantom Stranger is the one to direct her attention to the threat of the Child, Fate is the one leading the charge during the battle, and in the end she's not even directly involved in vanquishing Child.

Which is my other big complaint, Child makes a good adversary, but what I've always liked about the series is the back-and-forth between the heroes and villains, each of them taking victories (big or small) from each encounter. But the conflict with Child is too one-sided for too long. Heck, even after she loses the support from the Lords of Chaos, there really isn't much of an indicator that she's much weaker. And one of my pet peeves in terms of fighting and conflict is the "lose until you win" trope. Because the final victory feels unearned from the good guys when they spend all their time being steam-rolled until the villain gets kicked in the enchanted shin.

I'll admit, I actually think the religious message was well done. Now the most cynical part of me will say that Khalid's subplot (as well as Halo's) was in part course correction to the criticisms from the last season and how Islam was used. On the other hand, I liked the message of how religion can grant peace of mind and still fears (like with Khalid) and how religion can grant hope and endurance (like with Zatara). It's a bit more mature than I would've expected for not just this show but any DC property.

Now, I like the idea of Zatanna's arc and her training another group of magic heroes, in no small part because it's an arc few other heroes could have. But I think the execution wasn't done as well as I hoped. For example, instead of Child and Flaw being defeated by a lucky shot from Traci's bad luck power (the very thing Zatanna was teaching her not to rely so heavily on), have the victory come from her students apply the innocuous lessons taught at the beginning, perhaps used in an unexpected way. Mary's lesson should've been to be considerate when drawing power from outside sources, because overtaxing could have terrible drawbacks. That way Mary isn't considered as a candidate because her failing to learn that lesson rather than being arbitrarily told that she's addicted to power (something we've never seen before).

If season 5 happens (and I sincerely hope it does) I'd like the inevitable clash with Black Mary to be focused on Zatanna and highlight their failings as student and teacher.

Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!

ED - Thanks for your report on the new "Voices from the Eyrie" podcast; this is the first I've heard of the podcast about "A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time" (which is still one of my favorite episodes). I found your comments on Hudson encountering words with "gh" in them (something that I'd pondered myself) interesting.

So Michael Reaves has passed on? I'm sorry to hear that; I'd enjoyed his work. (I've read that he wanted to do an animated series called "Guardians of Luna? about werewolves protecting a modern-day city with the striking name of Steelhenge - it sounded like it was going to do for werewolves what "Gargoyles" did for medieval "monstrous? sculptures - though apparently it'll never be made now.)

Todd Jensen


Just feel like writing up my arc 3 review today I guess:

Arc 3 "Zatanna" ramble

So, this arc is strange to me. In a good way. Lately I've sort of been trying to think of arcs and stories in terms of a core dramatic question. What is the story asking? And what is the answer? Normally to my observation the question is usually asked by the end of the halfway mark of the story, with the answer coming at the end. In some form or another.

This arc is strange because it answers the question before it's even really been properly asked.

So in effect, this story is a Dr. Fate story I think. That was the strongest element to me, that was the most important part, it was certainly the one I actively cared about the most (it's really an arc that's been going on since near the beginning of season 1). The dramatic question as such, is "are Zatanna's students worthy to take up the mantle of Dr. Fate?". But that question isn't *really* asked until the very end of the story after they've dealt with Child. And by that point the question has already, very clearly I'd say, been answered. They are. (except for Mary)

So I really like that element of the story structure, that it sort of works in reverse. Really different.

The Chaos Lord stuff just isn't really my thing, I think is what it comes down to. I like the primordial element, I like the reinterpretation of Klarion, but the body horror and the smug ageless child thing isn't my taste. (It's possible Black Lagoon ruined it for me, though.) But I do really like the mythic elements here, the need for a familiar, the way different familiars manifest. I even sort of like the idea of the Lords of Order and Chaos holding court (sometimes with one another). And I think it's cool that Vandal Savage sort of solved the problem through diplomacy. Though I think his argument was a bit obvious (though I guess it wasn't to the Lords of Chaos).

The mindscape stuff in the middle of the arc was a bit odd to me. Mindscapes have always been a Weisman classic, so I wasn't particularly surprised to see them here. These were pretty effective and at times creepy, but I kind of wish we'd gotten this information in a more traditional way. I think the main thing that threw me off here was the placement of them. They sort of come in the middle of the action, when things are extremely desperate, It's an odd time to take a break to do some character development. In fact the whole pattern of the arc is odd to me. It's almost constant rising of stakes, and then when things are at their most intense, we sort of wander off to focus on some down time. Either meeting Jason Blood, or Dr. Fate, or the stuff with Klarion and the bus.

Then there was the stuff with Zatara. Now, I think partly the purpose of the stuff with Zatara, or my impression of it was to make Zatara less of a prop. Zatara potentially could be nothing more than an objective for Zatanna. She's got to rescue her nice, but unremarkable father from despotic forces. I think that's a good intention, but again came in at an odd time in the story. It also sort of muddled the through line of the storytelling in a way I wasn't the biggest fan of.

Because ultimately, while I think I'd argue it is a Zatanna, Dr. Fate Zatara story, I'm not sure it's important to really understand Zatara beyond the fact that Zatanna cares about him. And I don't really begrudge the storytelling that indulgence, I'm not an essentialist the way some people are, but I just think this story already has so many characters and subplots going on it winds up just being another layer to contextualize and care about and the show is already asking a lot. It didn't need to work this hard to make me care about Zatara, or to explain Zatara. I already care about Zatara and Zatanna.

The religious elements too, I think I'm not sure what to think of. I'm not a religious person, and Christianity in particular makes me very uncomfortable. So the shot of Nabu and Zatara facing off with an Ankh and a cross behind them made me chuckle a bit. Just because it reminded me of a narmy 70s comic cover (was it based on a cover actually?). But I think religion is a *very* big topic, and it's hard to kind of compartmentalize in this sort of story. Like, for me, what's important about Khalid's story isn't his relationship with magic, or with god, but his relationship with his mother. Which there isn't time or space to explore because of how ambitious this arc is. So it kind of just gets boiled down to him feeling pressure to choose something, and him deciding he doesn't have to choose. And I wish we got more context for that. Though there's an obvious irony in him being pressured into becoming a doctor and ending up as doctor fate, obviously. I'm less enamored with that now a few months later than I was when I watched it, but I still appreciate it.

One other thing I wanna comment on, because I've seen this criticism that this isn't really Zatanna's story. Which I suppose is true. I've seen this idea put forth by a lot of youtubes and film critic-type people, the idea of sort of the want/need and the core narrative of a character. Like because Zatanna doesn't transform, or learn something, or realize an unrealized need it's not her story. She knows what she wants at the beginning of the arc, and she knows how she wants to get it. And things just kind of... fall into place after that and she gets what she wants, the story wouldn't really have been that different if Zatanna had just knocked on Dr. Fate's door and had a conversation with him about cycling hosts. Which means perhaps the story is less dynamic and connected than it could be, but I don't think that's a *problem* necessarily.

Because ultimately the transformation is Dr. Fate's. This is a story about Dr. Fate. And I think that's good. Your P.O.V. character or protagonist doesn't necessarily need to be the character to whom things are happening.

It's interesting because I think this is also *very* reflected in Kaldur's arc.

I've rewritten this like 4 times to try and make it sound as constructive and not negative as possible, and I think I failed miserably at that, but there *is* a lot I liked about this arc. It's generally stuff that's just... always good, though. The characters are well drawn out, the conflicts are endearing, the story's creative, the global scope was impressive. It wasn't petty, it felt like everything was consequential. I still love this show's take on doctor fate *a lot*. I liked that we got a resolution to the Dr. Fate arc that started so many years ago.

So... yeah, I liked it. The Kaldur arc was my favourite of the season, tho, so I'm looking forward to writing that ramble.

Alex (or Aldrius)
Check out my anime podcast "Two Gays One Episode" on Spotify or YouTube!

Okay, looks like the comment room finally reset.

Because I posted this late last week, I'm going to plug the newest chapter of DC Legacies again. Which you can find here: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/14095367/3/DC-Legacies

When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.

Just got caught up on another superb "Voices from the Eyrie". I've never heard Brynne interviewed before and she was completely delightful and hilarious - not that other people haven't been but I guess I was thinking about how dark even by the show's standards some of her episodes were. I always felt like there was an edge of aggression in her scripts (I mean, she did all the big Demona singles in S1). So many fun anecdotes and as great as Greg is I'm always fascinated to hear writing recollections from all angles, especially since we sadly can't hear from Michael Reaves or Gary Sperling now. The idea that so many of these stories started off as just a few words on a card and were discussed is fascinating and I'd love to know more about these meetings.

I loved Greg's extemporaneous glimpse into Hudson's reading lessons. I like to think that Robbins would have been able to help Hudson with the "ough" pattern since it was originally spelt with the obsolete letter yogh representing 'x' and only was rendered as a gh when French scribes took it on. I don't know if as far back as the 10th century, Scots had patterns using the x pronunciation (and I forget what the deal is with the language difference between 994 and 1994 and what Hudson's perceptions of the way people speak are). Still, I like to believe that Robbins could help him with words like "night" if Hudson already recognises the dual pronunciation. (Mind you, "though" still doesn't fit - I think it was 'retconned' to fit the pattern later).

Incidentally, I've had the lighthouse quote on my classroom wall before now. Might see if I can find a space for it this term again actually. Love it.